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Welcome to the Open Adoption Project. We're the Nelsons. I'm Shaun. And I'm Lanette.

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And we are excited to be back with more episodes for our celebration of

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National Adoption Month. Yeah, we hope that the things that we share this month,

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typically about three episodes a week, will help you in your observation of and

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recognition of National Adoption Month. Yeah, we're really grateful for the

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opportunity to be sharing different perspectives and opinions and always

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looking for that chance to learn. It's really one of our big themes here to

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listen and learn, especially listen and learn from adoptees but also from

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birth parents. There's always something new that we can learn to help us do

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better going forward. Yeah, so this month we're putting out several episodes a

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week. You'll hear episodes conducted by us or by Alicia Gallacher, who's our

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Director of Communications. And again, we just hope to kind of flood the podcast

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sphere with adoption content for this month. Also, we're getting really close to

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a hundred episodes, which is super exciting. So this is helping with that

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too. A little side perk. Perfect. So we hope you enjoyed this episode and at the end

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we'll chat just a little bit about our newsletter. If you are not subscribed to

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our newsletter, I'll ask you right now to go ahead and look it up if you're

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interested in getting more adoption related content in your inbox. So go on

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over to openadoptionproject.org and click on newsletter to sign up.

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All right, well we are back on the podcast with Liz Rivera. Thank you so

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much for being with us again today. And today we're going to be talking just

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briefly, a little bit shorter than our previous conversation, about some

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openness considerations specifically for caretakers in the foster care

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situation. So, you know, when I ask you that, Liz, as a potential foster

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care parent, what should I be thinking about when it comes to

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openness, being connected with biological families? What should I be

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thinking about?

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So I was thinking about this just last week as we've been communicating back

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and forth. And I was actually listening to another podcast and they were

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talking about some of George Orwell's work, and particularly a phrase that he

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would use called the power of facing. And they talked a lot about that and

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then I got online and read some more about it. But it was it was basically

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the concept is the power of facing the truth about our lives, the lives we're

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living. And I was thinking about that in relationship to our conversation

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today that so many times, you know, in foster care and adoption, we wish

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things were different. And I think rightly so a lot of times, because

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sometimes the things that have happened are so hard and so sad, that we truly

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wish they were different. But then I was thinking of George Orwell and

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thinking about the power of facing the power of facing the reality we have the

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reality that is actually in front of us instead of the one we wish. And so

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instead of wasting my time and energy on wishing we're different, I simply

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accept it and there's power in acceptance of the way things are. And

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part of accepting the way things are is that many of these children who come to

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care have deep and abiding connections to their first family. And that is we

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simply accept that that that's a reality. And then we think, okay, with

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what with that reality, what am I being called upon to do then that is in the

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best interest of this child. And many times it is trying to find a way to

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maintain those connections, even when those connections are with people, that

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that foster family may not feel 100% comfortable around, would never go out

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necessarily and seek relationship with. And they start to just open themselves up

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and say, this is this child's family, they are important to this child,

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therefore they are important to me. And I think sometimes when we only do

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something because it's good for the child, it's, I don't know, maybe it's a

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little bit patronizing or condescending, I'll be nice to you because it's good

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for my child. Instead of opening ourselves up to falling in love with the

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parents of this kid. And I can't tell you how many families I've talked to who

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have had that experience. And they said, I expected to fall in love with the kids,

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I didn't expect to fall in love with their parents. And it's some of the most

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beautiful work I've ever seen happen. And regardless then of the outcome of a

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case, everyone is enriched, because that foster parent was willing to open

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themselves up to relationship with people that they may not have sought a

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relationship with otherwise.

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Oh, I love that. I mean, I've been on the I've been on the adoptive parents side

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of that four times over, and have come to really appreciate and love our

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children's birth parents. And I'm curious, from your perspective, having

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seen this professionally for many years, what do you feel like some of the skills

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are or strategies that caretakers or adoptive parents employ to foster those

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connections?

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I think one thing that's really hard is to be non judgmental. So this and this

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sort of echoes back a little bit to our previous conversation about the book,

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what happened to you is if they can look at the parents of these kids, and they

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can think, okay, this parent didn't just wake up one day and decide to, you know,

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become addicted to meth or opiates, or, you know, whatever they did, that

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there's something deeper there. And I choose to look at them as somebody who

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has had difficulty in life, and instead of someone who's just done bad things,

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one of our families once they their daughter that they'd adopted from

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foster care was about 1516. And her older biological brother had aged out

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of foster care, and was back in contact with their their mom. And he so he called

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her one day and he said, Mom wants to see you. So she went to her parents and

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said, My brother wants really wants me to go with him to see our mom. And they

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said, Well, we want to go with you to make sure it's safe. And so they went

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with her. And I talked to him after it happened. And I was talking to the dad.

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And he said, I said, How did it go? And he started crying. And he said, I wish

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we could have had her when she was in foster care. He said, We could have made

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a difference for the mom. And it was and they were devastated by that. So I think

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this this approaching, you know, without judgment, with this is a human being

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whose life has gone terribly wrong, their children have been removed. That's a

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huge thing. And what's what happened to you? What? Where did you come from? This

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is this is where you've ended up and have that that openness, that grace, that

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compassion is that and once again, some people I think are born with it in

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spades. And others of us have to develop that. And I've seen it happen both ways.

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I've seen people who just I know that's what's gonna happen because that's what

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they're like. And then I've seen the people that I never thought would do it

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actually do it. And it's pretty amazing to watch happen.

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Yeah, so that level of compassion, not being judgmental, really removes some of

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the barriers between, you know, creating this beautiful relationship. Any other

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thoughts or ways that they can foster that connection with first parents? I

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love that recommendation. But what else comes to mind?

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Yeah, so I think now because we talked a little bit last time about how

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technology can be maybe not always our friend. But in this case, I think

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technology can be our friend. I mean, we have we've had families set up, you

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know, password protected blogs, and they want to give the password to the

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parents or grandparents, you know, creating even though I think

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technically you're not supposed to do this, but creating Facebook accounts

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under pseudonyms, or Facebook or Instagram accounts that only the family

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has access to. So to be able to share pictures and information about the kids,

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honoring the role of the parent. So saying to the parent, you know, this

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little guy's only been with me for two weeks, and we went to McDonald's, and I

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don't even know what he likes at McDonald's. What does he love at McDonald's?

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Or what's his favorite color? What, you know, recognizing these parents are

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experts in their kids, and deferring to them, recognizing that and foster

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parents will fight me on this one. I always tell them, they're in the

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position, they're they're in the position of power and privilege. A lot of them

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don't believe it, because it doesn't always feel like it, because they're

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what they're hoping for doesn't isn't always prioritized. But they really are

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foster parents really are in the position of privilege. And so where can

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they where can they share power with that with that parent? And sometimes

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that may need to be cleared with DCFS, because we don't want foster parents

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just going rogue and, you know, doing things that aren't necessarily

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according to the case plan. But talking to the caseworker and saying I want to

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involve this parent more in this child's life, I want this parent have more say

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in their child's life. How can we share power with this parent? So they feel

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like they are still the parent and honoring that role of that parent.

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Yeah. And I think in this situation where a caretaking situation becomes an

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adoption situation, the power does shift a little bit. And it's really, I think

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really important, especially for the child's sake, that we continue to honor

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the connections that we've that we've tried to create in the care, the care

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taking scenario, when an adoption is finalized, just because you become the

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legal parents of this child doesn't erase their past. That doesn't erase the

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connections that they have with their biological parents or first family. Yeah,

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that's a really important consideration to make that that what we're doing has

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really long term effects and, and going into a situation, a care situation or

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adoption situation often means that we're gaining a lot more family than

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just this child who's coming into our home. Yeah, hopefully. Yeah. Yeah,

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ideally. Yeah, ideally. Yeah. Great. Any anything else? I know we're going to

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keep this one quite short. But anything else when it comes to fostering

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connection or or openness in in the sphere of caretakers? I think you brought

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up a good point just wanted to really just quickly address is that when we

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talk about sharing power, when the child's still in foster care, the goal

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is reunification, that sharing power will look very different than if the case

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plan changes to adoption and adoption occurs. But to reach out to

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professionals, so DCFS has, you know, people who can help with this, maybe

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sometimes, if the child is a therapist, they can help with this, but maybe having

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having those open conversations with the child's first family, like, okay, now

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it's going to be adoption, now it's going to be different now, because it will be

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it's just it just is. So what what's that going to look like? What do we manage

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that? How do we navigate that and just be willing to talk about things really

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openly, and not think we have to figure everything out and then apply it, that

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we can actually make this a team effort and figure it out so that everybody

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feels like they have some say and the solutions we come up with together are

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oftentimes going to be better than the ones we might do just on our own.

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Yeah, and in my experience, they are quite fluid. What works right now, or

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what considerations we have put in place for openness right now, are going to look

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different three months, six months, three years, six years down the road, because

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we change. Everybody changes, right. And ultimately, if we're doing everything

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that we can for the, you know, to, to put the child in the best circumstance, for

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their to help them feel whole, right. That's going to be something that's

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fluid and endeavor changing. Absolutely. And that kind of just harkens back your

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comment just now to the beginning, right? Face the truth. And embrace the truth.

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What what actually happened, what actually is happening, and sit in the

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truth and be okay with the truth. Absolutely. Yeah, and we're going to have

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a much better response if we face what's happening instead of pretending like

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it's not or wishing it weren't. Wonderful. Well, Liz, thank you so much

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for being with us again. I think these are really important considerations for

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either, you know, the caretaker or potential adoptive parent to be thinking

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about. So we really appreciate you. Any any last words that you'd share before

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you wrap up on this topic? No, just thank you. And just I really appreciate the

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work that you and Lanette are doing with the Open Adoption podcast. And I really

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hope people are listening regularly because what this little bit we talked

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about today, you guys explore so much more deeply and so many of these amazing

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conversations that I hope people and then and then as we talked about before,

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you guys really privileged the voice of the adoptee. And I think that that's a

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voice that has been missing for a very long time. And that especially during

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National Adoption Month, we want to privilege the voice of the person who's

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living this. Yep, they need to be heard and it has to be focused on them. So

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thank you again so much. We so appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you.

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Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Open Adoption Project.

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Yeah, we're so grateful to be able to share a lot of content this month,

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November 2023, for National Adoption Month. Yeah, so we just would love to

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remind you to subscribe to our newsletter if you have not done that yet.

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You can go to openadoptionproject.org and click on Newsletter

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and there's a subscription form right there that you can fill out.

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Also connect with us on social media. We're on Instagram and on Facebook

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at Open Adoption Project. Yeah, thank you so much for being here

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and learning with us as we just keep talking and learning about

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all of these different nuances of adoption.