WEBVTT

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Welcome back to the podcast, Crimes and Chaos.

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It's episode two. I'm Kate. I'm Kayla. And we've

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got a bit of a downer case this week. But like,

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there's some like, ridiculousness that makes

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it comical, to an extent. And I'm curious if

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you'll recognize what the... this case is. Today

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we're talking about Diane Downs. Rings not a

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single bell. This fucking bitch, dude. And this

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happened in Oregon. Majority of the case happens

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in Oregon. And I'm curious, I'm probably gonna

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have you Google it later to see how close it

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is to where I am currently. But, okay. Elizabeth

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Diane Fredrickson was born August 7th, 1955 to

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parents Wes and Willadine Fredrickson in Phoenix,

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Arizona. She was raised in a strict Christian

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household but started to act out as a teenager.

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She even accused her father of molesting her

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but ends up recanting that statement later. What

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a gem. After high school, Diane enrolled at Pacific

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Coast Baptist Bible College in California, which

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Jesus fucking Christ. What a mouthful. Right?

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That's a lot. When I was typing it out, I was

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like, this is the longest fucking name. And also

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having gone to, like, Catholic high school and

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stuff, I'm like, oh, my God, what a bummer. But

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she also fucked Diane. I don't care. She only

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lasted. there for one year before she was expelled

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for promiscuity. She's a little hoe. Good for

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her. If there's anything you need to know about

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Diane Downs, she's a fucking hoe. And you know

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what? We don't slut shame around here. We do

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for her. Oh, oh, we don't like her. Okay, my

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bad. We don't like Diane. So she gets expelled

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and she has to go back to live with her parents

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in Arizona. But she... runs away to marry her

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high school sweetheart Steve Downs in November

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1973, when he returned home from the Navy despite

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her parents blatant disapproval. And they're

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still in Arizona at this point. In 1974, she

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has her first daughter, Christy Ann, followed

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by her second Cheryl in 1976. And at some point

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in the years after their second daughter her

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husband Steve had gotten a vasectomy and Diane

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was having an affair with a man named Mark Sager

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or Sager. I don't know how to say that last name

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like that author, you know, Riley. Oh, Riley

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Sager. I always say Sager. I could be wrong.

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Okay, maybe this man is Mark Sager. So since

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Steve had had a vasectomy, obviously, the child

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that she gets pregnant with a little boy that

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they named Stephen Daniel Danny in 1979. She

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named it after her husband. Yeah, that's really

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fucked up. So Diane and Steve had a very tumultuous

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marriage, constantly arguing over finances and

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alleged or not so alleged affairs on both sides.

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Also some domestic violence involved in their

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marriage. home to be raising your three young

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children in. But Steve divorces Diane in 1980

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after discovering their son that was named after

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him was actually not his but that of Diane's

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man on the side. So they get divorced and what

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does Diane do with three children? She becomes

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a surrogate mother for a couple in like Florida

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or something and still was able to do this after

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failing two psychiatric tests due to psychosis

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that she was diagnosed with. But sure, let's

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let her carry another couple's child. I think

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she did it because you'll come to find out she

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loves the attention that she gets when she's

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pregnant. And to be a surrogate, you get paid

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a chunk of money for that. But I'm just like,

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do fucking whatever. But now they're all living

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in Cottage Grove, Oregon, and Diane worked for

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the Postal Service running mail routes and obviously

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was a shitty mother. Steve said Diane put everything

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else before her children and often ridiculed

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them and denied them of any attention or affection.

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Like truly has no maternal instincts. It reminds

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me of like Casey Anthony. You know what I mean?

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Okay, and I did just look up Cottage Grove because

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I needed to know immediately. It's two hours

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south of you It's that it's like it's just south

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of Eugene Okay, so fast forward a few years to

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May 19th 1983 the night of the shooting so overview

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is Diane and her three children get attacked

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and shot and like fatally wounded The night of

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the shooting Diane claims that around 10 30 p

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.m. On a school night She was driving herself

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and her three kids who were asleep I believe

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the oldest was in the front seat and the two

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younger were in the backseat her kids are like

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eight and younger and they were driving home

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from a friend's house when she Pulled over after

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a stranger flagged her down off like on the side

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of the road and She's taking the scenic route

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home because she said that she and her kids liked

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doing this on drives to like site C on the scenic

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roads in Oregon. But it's nighttime. Thank you.

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That is correct, ma 'am. OK, OK. Just exactly.

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So when this comes up, like later in the investigation,

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everyone's like, what the fuck are you talking

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about? It's 1030 at night. Your kids are just

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they're not even awake. No, what is there to

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sightsee? I Said especially at night when you

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can't see anything and the kids are asleep and

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it's a school night. Totally makes sense Diane

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But she says that the man who flagged her down

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ordered her to hand over her car keys. Oh When

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she pulled over She says she she pulled over

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she turns the car off grabs the keys, gets out

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of the vehicle, and is like, hey, what's the

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problem? But okay. Remind me, what year is this?

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1983. Okay. Okay. So Diane says the man who flagged

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her down ordered her to hand over her keys and

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she replied, you've got to be kidding. That's

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how she responds to this. But our Diane is no

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idiot, Kayla. She's like, oh, you want my car

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keys? Go find them and pretends to throw them

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in the nearby bushes. Which I guess she thought

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would totally fool the guy. And as soon as he

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turned his back, she'd hop back in the car, start

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it up, drive home, easy peasy. I mean, it works

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on my dog every time. Yeah, but that's a dog.

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Also this person, this man that flagged her down

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does not exist. So according to Diane, she pretends

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to toss the keys, but then the man comes up to

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the car and leans in, shoots all three of her

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children with a small caliber pistol and shoots

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Diane in the arm before running away. And then

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Diane drives to the McKenzie Willamette Hospital

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in Springfield, Oregon, which from what I read,

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whatever area that she was driving in that night,

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The hospital that she went to was only a few

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miles away. So it shouldn't take very long to

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get there. And it's the middle of the night,

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it's not like there's traffic or anything. So

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when she gets there, she's explaining what happens

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and she describes the man who did this as having

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shaggy brown hair and a stubble beard. And she's

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like, that's not really a lot. I was just saying,

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an organ that feels like every granola. Literally,

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that's like copy and paste every man. It's like,

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okay, thanks, I guess. Upon arrival at the hospital,

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Danny, who was three years old, was paralyzed

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from the waystone, but he survives. Christy,

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who's eight years old, suffered a stroke from

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blood loss. She survives. Cheryl, the middle

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daughter, seven years old, was dead. Lucky Diane

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only suffered a gunshot wound in her left forearm,

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and she's right -handed. How convenient. Suspicious.

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Dude, so suspish. Immediately, the hospital workers

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are suspicious of Diane, and when investigators

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arrive, they're obviously also suspicious as

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well. Her general demeanor was way too calm for

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someone who had just gone through such a traumatic

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event. And everyone handles grief and trauma

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differently. But like, 100 % your children were

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just shot at close range in front of you. You

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were shot. And you were shot, but you're like,

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Oh, and just get ready for some interviews that

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she does later. Feel like it's more obvious probably

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to like detectives and stuff if like somebody's

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trying to fake grief and trauma Like I get uncomfortable

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like I do uncomfortable things like inappropriately

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laugh at oh, yeah Whatever so like but that's

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not she was just like Cool as a cucumber. I'd

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be losing my shit. Like if someone shot mrs.

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Norris in front of me, I'd be inconsolable Oh

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I could I'd have to be inconsolable like or filled

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with rage like there'd be some emotion like a

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little it would be and again everyone reacts

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differently but I expect some girl in the weeks

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after the shooting Diane would tell different

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variations of the events she'd say this man shot

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her in the arm during a struggle to get her keys

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and then he shot the kids and then she was able

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to flee when she pretended to throw the keys

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Then she'd say that he shot the kids first and

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then her. The kids were asleep or they were awake,

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yada, yada, yada. So investigators are already

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questioning her story because it's just weird.

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Like, why would a random man try to kill her

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and her children just to steal her car? And it's

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not like she had a nice car. Also, did she say

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how she got away? She said when she pretended

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to throw the keys into the bushes. It distracted

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him enough, but then she said he came back up

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to the car. Yeah Okay, I'm just making sure I'm

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following The line keeps changing. Yeah, she

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keeps like changing. I'm confused. She's got

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to be confused She's an idiot is what she is

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true So investigators are already questioning

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her story because it's just weird like why would

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a random guy try to kill her and her kids just

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to steal her car. And as soon as the situation

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gets a little sticky, he just dips and lets her

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go to identify him to authorities. Like that

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doesn't make any sense. It makes no sense. Not

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an ounce of sense. And on top of that, when she

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went to the hospital one day to visit her two

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living children who were horribly injured, Diane

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calls a man named Robert Knickerbocker, who she

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used to work with. Knickerbocker. She used to

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work with him in Arizona and they had been having

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an affair. And obviously he's married. Cause

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of course I do not condone this. I don't condone.

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So she was having an affair with this man and

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he didn't like kids. He did not want to have

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kids. So, um, so she, you're fucking joking.

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So a motive that was like floating around was

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you're in love with this married man who doesn't

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like children. Did you shoot your kids to try

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to get this man's? But before we get to that,

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like she calls this guy from the hospital, like

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when she just to like, and I don't even think

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it was like he was still in Arizona. She's in

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Oregon. So it's like they're not actively having

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an affair. They're not actively involved. But

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two of your three kids are fighting for their

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lives. One is dead. And you're like, hey, kids,

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hold on real quick. Let me give my married boyfriend

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a call. Then I'm not actually dating right now.

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And then in my notes I wrote, I'm sure the cops

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had this thought for a motive. Maybe she wanted

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her kids out of the picture permanently to try

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to win him over and leave his wife for her. A

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bit extreme, no? Yeah. No, I mean, no. Totally

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normal. What are you talking about? It's Diane.

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It's our gal, Diane. She's super normal and chill.

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On the forensic side, her version of events don't

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add up at all. There's no blood spatter that

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was found on the driver's side of the car, which

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if she had been shot when she pretended to throw

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the keys, there would have been blood somewhere

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on that side of the car. If the driver's door

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was closed at the time of the shooting, there

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would have been blood on the outside of the car.

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If it was open, there would have been some spatter.

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On the interior of the door, but nope. There's

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nothing Almost as if there wasn't a strange man

00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:39.759
attacking them at all Hmm imagine that I mean,

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okay and like if a man flags you down on a rural

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road at night with your your three young children

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in the car and if you're like nice enough to

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pull over like I would never pull over because

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I don't want to die but if I were to pull over

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I'm keeping my car running and I'm cracking the

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window like the tiniest bit. Yeah, I'm not getting

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out. Hey, what's up? Everything okay? Not like,

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yeah, get out like fully engaged. So it's like,

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yeah, crack your window, ask what's going on.

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If he seems like a creep, you can dip. Well,

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that's why he's just on his feet. Yeah, that's

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why I asked the time frame because I was like,

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In the 80s, this would probably make more sense

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today. Yeah. Like or even in the last like 20

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years. But in the 80s, there was more sense of

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community, but you're still not going to. No

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one's going to pull over with their three children

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for a strange man. Even then, wasn't this like

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prime serial killer time? Yes. The 80s, it's

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the fucking satanic panic. Like every serial

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killer in the universe is in California and the

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Pacific Northwest. Yeah, breathe the room. Okay,

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now her lover in Arizona, Mr. Knickerbocker,

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told police, so they like contact him because

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she was in communication with him while her kids

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are in the hospital. They contact him and he

00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:07.139
told police, oh, when they originally had called

00:16:07.139 --> 00:16:10.740
him and like explained like the situation, his

00:16:10.740 --> 00:16:14.360
response was, I can't believe she did this. He

00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:17.740
was just like, I can't believe she shot her kids.

00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:23.100
He didn't even question it. Well that's suspicious.

00:16:23.700 --> 00:16:27.279
Right. So good on the cops for contacting him.

00:16:27.659 --> 00:16:30.460
But he told the police that Diane was crazy and

00:16:30.460 --> 00:16:34.179
seemed adamant on him being hers only and would

00:16:34.179 --> 00:16:36.919
go as far as to kill his wife in order to make

00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:39.480
that happen. He said he was relieved when she

00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:42.179
moved from Arizona to Oregon so that him and

00:16:42.179 --> 00:16:45.799
his wife could reconcile their marriage. In fact...

00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:50.080
oh this is already in my notes in fact when police

00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:52.179
spoke to him in regards to the case and informed

00:16:52.179 --> 00:16:54.539
him of the alleged attack nickerbocker replied

00:16:54.539 --> 00:16:59.519
i can't believe she actually did that bruh lock

00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:05.640
her ass up yeah also um christy diane's surviving

00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:11.039
daughter is recovering from a stroke and every

00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:15.019
time She couldn't speak for a long time. But

00:17:15.019 --> 00:17:18.039
every time Diane entered Christie's hospital

00:17:18.039 --> 00:17:20.559
room when she visited, Christie's heart rate

00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:23.980
on the monitor would skyrocket. Obviously. And

00:17:23.980 --> 00:17:26.299
only when Diane walked into the room. Nobody

00:17:26.299 --> 00:17:29.099
else. Imagine your mother trying to kill you.

00:17:29.180 --> 00:17:32.140
Literally. And then you can't speak. Yeah. She

00:17:32.140 --> 00:17:33.920
knows that her mom is the one who did this. And

00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:36.799
she's fucking terrified of her now. Yeah. And

00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:38.420
Diane's coming in trying to be like, oh my gosh,

00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:41.799
I love you, my baby, my baby. I'd bite her. She's

00:17:41.799 --> 00:17:45.940
the fucking worst. Diane told the police that

00:17:45.940 --> 00:17:48.359
her attacker shot them with a small caliber gun.

00:17:48.539 --> 00:17:52.319
And I don't know anything about guns. But if

00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:55.220
somebody ever attacked me at gunpoint and I survived

00:17:55.220 --> 00:18:00.859
and the cops asked for details what type of gun

00:18:00.859 --> 00:18:02.559
it was, I'd be like, I don't fucking know. It

00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:07.740
was small. Oh, yeah. And it could kill me. And

00:18:07.740 --> 00:18:13.019
I was scared. Yeah, like I own guns. I mean,

00:18:13.039 --> 00:18:16.599
I don't. Logan does. And I don't know what any

00:18:16.599 --> 00:18:19.660
of that means. He could probably tell you, maybe.

00:18:20.460 --> 00:18:22.859
But I'd be like, it was small. The gun was small.

00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:26.319
The gun was longer, tall. Yeah, I'd be like,

00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:29.940
I don't know, small enough to fit in your pocket

00:18:29.940 --> 00:18:33.359
or in the waist of your pants, in a purse, in

00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:36.500
a bag, whatever. I wouldn't be using small caliber

00:18:36.500 --> 00:18:42.650
pistol. That's very specific So anyways turns

00:18:42.650 --> 00:18:46.269
out that Diane's ex -husband Steve Downs and

00:18:46.269 --> 00:18:49.130
Her lover knickerbocker told the police that

00:18:49.130 --> 00:18:53.390
Diane indeed owned a 22 caliber handgun But she

00:18:53.390 --> 00:19:00.769
never disclosed this to the cops Investigators

00:19:00.769 --> 00:19:03.009
never located the gun that shot her and her kids,

00:19:03.089 --> 00:19:06.819
but they did find bullet cartridges in her home

00:19:06.819 --> 00:19:09.220
that had markings that matched those of the murder

00:19:09.220 --> 00:19:13.960
weapon. So like the empty shells or whatever

00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:17.339
at the scene. The shell casings I think. Yeah.

00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:21.460
They collected them and compared the markings

00:19:21.460 --> 00:19:24.359
to the ones that they found. Yeah. Isn't that

00:19:24.359 --> 00:19:26.460
kind of crazy that they have like a signature?

00:19:27.220 --> 00:19:29.880
It's like almost. Yeah. Is it like every gun

00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:33.410
is like that? Like the the barrel of the gun

00:19:33.410 --> 00:19:36.849
when the bullets come out. It like makes a very

00:19:36.849 --> 00:19:42.029
specific marking. Kind of crazy. Freaking ballistics.

00:19:42.670 --> 00:19:45.650
That's crazy. So yeah, they found bullet cartridges

00:19:45.650 --> 00:19:48.549
in her home that had markings that matched exactly

00:19:48.549 --> 00:19:51.710
those of the murder weapon, but they didn't find

00:19:51.710 --> 00:19:54.410
the weapon itself. But I mean, this is pretty

00:19:54.410 --> 00:19:58.910
damning. And witnesses also came forward saying

00:19:58.910 --> 00:20:02.400
they saw her driving extremely slowly. towards

00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:06.519
the hospital that night like so slow it barely

00:20:06.519 --> 00:20:09.039
registered a speed on the driver's speedometer

00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:12.039
that was driving behind her so this bitch is

00:20:12.039 --> 00:20:15.519
driving so slow presumably to let her kids bleed

00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:19.259
to death before getting them medical help and

00:20:19.259 --> 00:20:22.380
she says that she was driving like a maniac to

00:20:22.380 --> 00:20:25.119
get her dear dear children to the hospital as

00:20:25.119 --> 00:20:28.339
fast as she could She is driving like a maniac,

00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:31.160
a sociopath who doesn't care about her children.

00:20:31.460 --> 00:20:34.059
She's driving like a murderer who's trying to

00:20:34.059 --> 00:20:38.259
like get her victims to die. That's crazy. And

00:20:38.259 --> 00:20:41.619
she took the time before she started heading

00:20:41.619 --> 00:20:45.339
to the hospital, she took the time to wrap her

00:20:45.339 --> 00:20:49.240
arm in a towel or something in the car, the arm

00:20:49.240 --> 00:20:54.829
that was shot by this attacker. So she she like

00:20:54.829 --> 00:20:57.170
wrapped up her injury but didn't check on her

00:20:57.170 --> 00:21:00.009
kids and then this is something so familiar like

00:21:00.009 --> 00:21:02.589
in my soul I know I know what we're talking about

00:21:02.589 --> 00:21:05.549
but it's never like it's not landing because

00:21:05.549 --> 00:21:10.509
I it sounds so familiar but it is like you and

00:21:10.509 --> 00:21:13.569
I'm not a mother I don't know because like morbid

00:21:13.569 --> 00:21:16.529
podcast has definitely covered this case yeah

00:21:16.529 --> 00:21:21.609
I mean I'm not a mother but wouldn't you go You

00:21:21.609 --> 00:21:23.990
check on your kids before yourself, especially

00:21:23.990 --> 00:21:27.910
with just an arm gunshot wound. I will say though.

00:21:28.869 --> 00:21:31.890
On a plane they're like mask yourself before

00:21:31.890 --> 00:21:35.390
masking others. So like I don't know. But her

00:21:35.390 --> 00:21:39.009
in this situation though, her injuries are so

00:21:39.009 --> 00:21:43.119
much less severe. Yeah. Because her children

00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:45.759
are shot multiple times. Yeah, I'm just playing

00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:47.500
devil's advocate or whatever the fuck people

00:21:47.500 --> 00:21:49.160
say. I actually hate when people say that, so

00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:52.000
I apologize. How dare you. We hate Diane in this

00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:56.279
house. Yes. So let's not defend her. Okay. Four

00:21:56.279 --> 00:21:59.279
days after the attack, she does a reenactment

00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:02.799
for detectives that happened, of what happened

00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:05.920
that night, sorry. Okay. They use a different

00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:09.000
car, obviously, because hers is the crime scene.

00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:13.500
The video of her acting out and narrating what

00:22:13.500 --> 00:22:17.119
happened is absolutely bonkers. Like a detective

00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:20.839
is pretending to be this shaggy haired individual

00:22:20.839 --> 00:22:24.680
that flagged her down and she's like guiding

00:22:24.680 --> 00:22:27.640
him like oh he came up to me around this like

00:22:27.640 --> 00:22:29.900
around the door like this and blah blah and that's

00:22:29.900 --> 00:22:36.339
when I threw the keys um but she it's so obvious

00:22:36.339 --> 00:22:39.339
she fucking loves being the center of attention

00:22:39.339 --> 00:22:43.880
and she does so many interviews throughout the

00:22:43.880 --> 00:22:47.660
investigation that like make her look so clearly

00:22:47.660 --> 00:22:52.119
guilty um in one of the interviews she did later

00:22:52.119 --> 00:22:55.799
on she said something like i think maybe the

00:22:55.799 --> 00:22:59.339
interviewer said like commented on like how lucky

00:22:59.339 --> 00:23:04.890
she was to like not sustain as serious injuries

00:23:04.890 --> 00:23:07.170
and was able to get her children to the hospital,

00:23:07.410 --> 00:23:11.390
like before the media was really like, she's

00:23:11.390 --> 00:23:15.250
a suspect. And she goes, oh, I wasn't lucky.

00:23:15.390 --> 00:23:18.910
I'm not the lucky one. My kids were lucky. She

00:23:18.910 --> 00:23:22.210
was like, I haven't been, she was like, I got

00:23:22.210 --> 00:23:25.130
shot in my arm. They had to, it hit my bone.

00:23:25.170 --> 00:23:27.230
The bullet hit my bone. I haven't been able to

00:23:27.230 --> 00:23:31.109
tie my shoes for two months. What? Dead ass,

00:23:31.190 --> 00:23:34.230
she said that. She said that they were lucky

00:23:34.230 --> 00:23:38.190
or maybe that the daughter who? Did not make

00:23:38.190 --> 00:23:40.569
it is lucky because she's doesn't have to deal

00:23:40.569 --> 00:23:43.230
with she didn't have to worry about tying her

00:23:43.230 --> 00:23:48.269
shoes She's dead bitch That's that's crazy. She

00:23:48.269 --> 00:23:51.650
almost has like um, I haven't been able to tie

00:23:51.650 --> 00:23:56.569
my shoes in two months. Oh Diane that sucks.

00:23:56.589 --> 00:24:00.930
Your life is so hard psychopath I fucking hate

00:24:00.930 --> 00:24:04.750
her. Yeah. Okay, back to the reenactment. In

00:24:04.750 --> 00:24:07.089
the video, the detective is talking to the camera,

00:24:07.150 --> 00:24:09.529
explaining what they're doing. And in the background,

00:24:09.970 --> 00:24:13.450
Diane is getting into the car. And you can see

00:24:13.450 --> 00:24:16.450
her, you can fully see her in the background,

00:24:17.170 --> 00:24:19.049
like, looking in the rear view mirror and like,

00:24:19.269 --> 00:24:22.750
printing her hair and like, making sure she looks

00:24:22.750 --> 00:24:26.779
good. Yeah, for the cameras. yeah it looks she's

00:24:26.779 --> 00:24:28.720
gotta look good for the cameras okay so they're

00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:31.640
acting out the attack diane is narrating how

00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:34.180
everything went down none of which makes any

00:24:34.180 --> 00:24:36.480
fucking sense after watching this video and she

00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:39.819
laughs multiple times throughout it like it's

00:24:39.819 --> 00:24:42.859
all just so silly and it's like like it's like

00:24:42.859 --> 00:24:45.460
an acting class it's like she's putting on a

00:24:45.460 --> 00:24:48.640
show or something not like she's reenacting what

00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:51.599
should be the most traumatizing moment of her

00:24:51.599 --> 00:24:55.400
life then the kicker she gets back into the car

00:24:55.660 --> 00:24:58.519
Like at the point where she says she distracted

00:24:58.519 --> 00:25:01.539
the guy by pretending to throw the keys. She's

00:25:01.539 --> 00:25:04.119
like, and then I get back into the car and she

00:25:04.119 --> 00:25:09.099
laughs and goes, ah, I just hit my cast. This

00:25:09.099 --> 00:25:13.900
is this is worse than and trails off. Worse than

00:25:13.900 --> 00:25:18.019
what? That's literally in my notes. Worse than

00:25:18.019 --> 00:25:21.420
what, Diane? Worse than when you shot yourself

00:25:21.420 --> 00:25:24.839
in the arm? She fully was going to say that.

00:25:24.920 --> 00:25:29.339
Like, it's so obvious. This hurts worse than...

00:25:29.339 --> 00:25:32.980
Worse than what? Okay, now let me pull up the

00:25:32.980 --> 00:25:37.160
clip. So I'll walk up in front of the car and

00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:40.019
Mrs. Downs will open her car door and we'll go

00:25:40.019 --> 00:25:45.160
from there. What's your car? Nope, it was further.

00:25:45.660 --> 00:25:48.140
He didn't say anything. I just kept waiting.

00:25:48.339 --> 00:26:11.490
Okay, we got this far. Okay. Okay pause, okay,

00:26:11.490 --> 00:26:14.750
just yeah, but yeah, so she was like saying hit

00:26:14.750 --> 00:26:17.029
this child this child this child She did say

00:26:17.029 --> 00:26:20.319
you've got to be kidding. Yeah you've got to

00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:25.740
be kidding i was like oh my i hate her she's

00:26:25.740 --> 00:26:30.180
such a stupid bitch yeah but then she's like

00:26:30.180 --> 00:26:32.180
so casually in the video like when you watch

00:26:32.180 --> 00:26:35.420
it later she's literally just pointing she's

00:26:35.420 --> 00:26:39.359
like she shot they shot him and then or whatever

00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:42.420
christy first and then sheryl and then danny

00:26:42.420 --> 00:26:44.900
or whatever order yeah just like casually like

00:26:45.849 --> 00:26:48.269
And it's like, well, what were you doing, Diane?

00:26:48.430 --> 00:26:51.730
Because she's just standing off towards the back

00:26:51.730 --> 00:26:56.109
seat of the vehicle outside. And she said that

00:26:56.109 --> 00:26:59.250
the attacker leaned into the car to shoot them.

00:26:59.289 --> 00:27:01.970
So it's like, oh, you just stood there? Yeah,

00:27:02.069 --> 00:27:05.450
you didn't tackle him? And let him shoot all

00:27:05.450 --> 00:27:07.569
three of your children multiple times? You could

00:27:07.569 --> 00:27:12.359
have tried to stop. OK, continue. He swings halfway

00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:15.240
back. He looks at me, but he's not all the way

00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:20.900
around. I want you to look. Like that, okay?

00:27:21.420 --> 00:27:23.180
Your attention goes, you swing around at the

00:27:23.180 --> 00:27:24.640
same time. What are you indicating there? I'm

00:27:24.640 --> 00:27:26.200
throwing the keys, okay? I'm throwing the keys.

00:27:26.700 --> 00:27:28.680
Simulating. Yes, but I didn't let go of them.

00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:31.740
He thinks I threw them, but I did not throw them,

00:27:31.819 --> 00:27:34.720
okay? He swings around at the same time. He's

00:27:34.720 --> 00:27:36.940
watching the keys and he swings around and shoots.

00:27:59.500 --> 00:28:03.380
What else would she be referring to? Literally.

00:28:04.140 --> 00:28:09.579
What? I fucking hate her. My cast! And when she's

00:28:09.579 --> 00:28:13.359
in the video, you can't see it at first, and

00:28:13.359 --> 00:28:16.599
she's not narrating, pretending to throw the

00:28:16.599 --> 00:28:18.400
keys, so he's like, okay, what are you indicating

00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:21.460
when you're doing that motion? And she's like,

00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:23.279
I'm throwing the keys, okay? And then she flashes

00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:26.059
the keys to the camera like, okay, see the keys?

00:28:26.119 --> 00:28:28.299
I'm gonna pretend. And he thinks that I threw

00:28:28.299 --> 00:28:31.539
them. She sounds way too happy for someone that

00:28:31.539 --> 00:28:36.089
has lost a child, got shot. Like, she sounds

00:28:36.089 --> 00:28:38.470
stoked. One of her children is paralyzed. The

00:28:38.470 --> 00:28:41.289
other is recovering from a stroke from blood

00:28:41.289 --> 00:28:46.269
loss. Nine months later, on February 28th, 1984,

00:28:47.369 --> 00:28:49.309
Diane Downs is arrested and charged with one

00:28:49.309 --> 00:28:51.390
count of murder, two counts of attempted murder,

00:28:51.549 --> 00:28:55.769
and criminal assault. The trial begins, and surprise!

00:28:56.950 --> 00:29:01.079
Diane is pregnant. With whose baby? Oh wait,

00:29:01.339 --> 00:29:04.519
so she got, was she in jail? Did she sleep with

00:29:04.519 --> 00:29:07.660
a guard? No, no, no. This, she got pregnant,

00:29:07.859 --> 00:29:12.440
so okay, between the timeline of her children

00:29:12.440 --> 00:29:15.519
being shot, murdered, gravely injured, and her

00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:18.240
getting arrested, so she wasn't, she didn't get

00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:21.940
arrested until February 28th. The original shooting

00:29:21.940 --> 00:29:27.599
happened on May 19th. Oh wow. Okay. Because they

00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:30.559
didn't have I guess they didn't have enough to

00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:34.140
go on to arrest her or they were still investigating

00:29:34.140 --> 00:29:36.579
and blah blah blah, like testing the car and

00:29:36.579 --> 00:29:42.380
all that shit. So between the shooting and her

00:29:42.380 --> 00:29:46.460
getting arrested, she calculatedly got pregnant.

00:29:47.140 --> 00:29:51.079
She wanted to get pregnant to, in an interview

00:29:51.079 --> 00:29:55.359
she says something like, you can never replace,

00:29:55.480 --> 00:29:59.359
I can never replace Cheryl. my daughter Cheryl

00:29:59.359 --> 00:30:03.779
who died but I can bring another life into the

00:30:03.779 --> 00:30:06.740
world and she talks about she was like I you

00:30:06.740 --> 00:30:10.640
know children are supposed like I I love my children

00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:16.759
because they um they love me and they give me

00:30:16.759 --> 00:30:20.140
attention and affection and they look to me for

00:30:20.140 --> 00:30:23.480
everything something like that I'm fully paraphrasing

00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:27.380
I don't know But it's like, no, you don't have

00:30:27.380 --> 00:30:32.680
kids so that kids can give you. Exactly. Satisfaction

00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:35.839
and attention and acknowledgement and fucking

00:30:35.839 --> 00:30:40.440
weird affection. You have kids so that you can.

00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:44.160
You are the attentive one. Yeah. You are the

00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:46.220
one giving the affection. You're the one raising

00:30:46.220 --> 00:30:48.680
them. You're the one who's supposed to love them

00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:52.799
with everything. Yeah. But she was like and she.

00:30:52.970 --> 00:30:55.849
Loved being pregnant because she loved the attention.

00:30:56.009 --> 00:31:00.309
So like it was going around in the media that

00:31:00.309 --> 00:31:05.029
she was looking really sus and So she was like,

00:31:05.269 --> 00:31:07.869
I'm gonna get pregnant and people will feel bad

00:31:07.869 --> 00:31:10.609
for a pregnant woman. What a pregnant lady She

00:31:10.609 --> 00:31:13.430
could never do that to anybody. Like she loves

00:31:13.430 --> 00:31:16.529
being pregnant. Um, she gets pregnant and we'll

00:31:16.529 --> 00:31:19.410
get to this later, but the dude was a reporter

00:31:19.410 --> 00:31:23.190
She gets pregnant with the reporter Mm -hmm.

00:31:23.589 --> 00:31:27.029
Okay, I'm gonna let I'm gonna let you go and

00:31:27.029 --> 00:31:31.170
So she loves being pregnant and she orchestrated

00:31:31.170 --> 00:31:35.910
this in order to sway the public's Sympathy and

00:31:35.910 --> 00:31:40.529
eventually when she gets arrested the jury's

00:31:40.529 --> 00:31:45.150
sympathy and Of course Diane takes a stand during

00:31:45.150 --> 00:31:49.950
her trial which fucking of course she does because

00:31:49.950 --> 00:31:53.359
she loves attention and She's bound to make herself

00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:55.359
look even more guilty, so it doesn't make sense

00:31:55.359 --> 00:31:58.519
that her attorneys let her do this. And that's

00:31:58.519 --> 00:32:02.599
exactly what she does. She had mentioned at some

00:32:02.599 --> 00:32:06.200
point before the trial that the song that was

00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:08.480
playing on the radio in the car... during the

00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:11.599
shooting was Hungry Like the Wolf by Duran Duran.

00:32:11.859 --> 00:32:14.460
And during the trial, the prosecution played

00:32:14.460 --> 00:32:17.599
the song while Diane was on the stand, and it

00:32:17.599 --> 00:32:21.140
took her no time to start tapping her foot and

00:32:21.140 --> 00:32:23.720
bobbing her head along to the beat and mouthing

00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:26.779
the lyrics on the stand. Of course. Now, call

00:32:26.779 --> 00:32:29.299
me crazy, but if that was me and my kids had

00:32:29.299 --> 00:32:31.000
been shot in front of me while that song was

00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:33.960
playing, that song would forever be a trigger

00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:36.519
to me. I would not find joy in hearing that song.

00:32:36.730 --> 00:32:40.009
Like there are songs that like remind me of like

00:32:40.009 --> 00:32:43.089
grade school that I'm like, ah, gross. Oh my

00:32:43.089 --> 00:32:45.329
God. Yeah. You know, it brings you back to like

00:32:45.329 --> 00:32:48.470
a weird time where like, you're just like, no.

00:32:49.130 --> 00:32:52.029
The trauma a song can induce. Yeah. And she's

00:32:52.029 --> 00:32:54.549
just like bopping along. Do do do. She's like,

00:32:54.690 --> 00:32:56.890
come on, bitch. If you're trying to look innocent.

00:32:57.049 --> 00:33:00.450
Do better. You're doing a terrible job. Be a

00:33:00.450 --> 00:33:02.849
better criminal. If you're going to do it, lean

00:33:02.849 --> 00:33:06.329
in. Oh, and she says in interviews too, she was

00:33:06.329 --> 00:33:09.390
like, if I wanted to kill my children, I would

00:33:09.390 --> 00:33:12.789
have done a better job at it. Okay, OJ. I literally,

00:33:13.910 --> 00:33:16.809
I literally was like, okay, OJ, if I did it.

00:33:16.809 --> 00:33:24.390
Like, shut the fuck up. God. Okay, so the prosecution

00:33:24.390 --> 00:33:27.089
star witness was Diane's surviving daughter,

00:33:27.329 --> 00:33:30.470
eight -year -old Cheryl. the one who had the

00:33:30.470 --> 00:33:32.789
stroke. And she had been recovering and working

00:33:32.789 --> 00:33:35.049
with a speech therapist because she wasn't able

00:33:35.049 --> 00:33:39.750
to speak for a long time. And they wanted to

00:33:39.750 --> 00:33:42.069
obviously be able to get her to regain her speech

00:33:42.069 --> 00:33:47.670
just for life, but also for her to testify. But

00:33:47.670 --> 00:33:49.910
before the trial, while she was still in the

00:33:49.910 --> 00:33:53.329
hospital and working with this therapist, the

00:33:53.329 --> 00:33:57.750
therapist asked if she saw who shot her and her

00:33:57.750 --> 00:34:00.450
siblings and she nodded yes, but didn't want

00:34:00.450 --> 00:34:04.150
to reveal who it was. So the therapist suggested,

00:34:04.789 --> 00:34:08.050
okay, how about we, you write it down on a piece

00:34:08.050 --> 00:34:11.630
of paper and we'll rip it up and throw it away.

00:34:11.769 --> 00:34:15.849
We'll throw it into the fireplace and burn it.

00:34:15.849 --> 00:34:18.730
And we'll keep doing this until you're ready.

00:34:19.030 --> 00:34:21.309
Which is like - Okay, that's interesting. It's

00:34:21.309 --> 00:34:23.150
interesting, but I like it. Cause it's like -

00:34:23.150 --> 00:34:26.320
Yeah. Like, because he doesn't touch the therapist.

00:34:26.579 --> 00:34:28.840
I don't remember if it was a male or female,

00:34:28.900 --> 00:34:31.659
but the therapist doesn't touch the paper that

00:34:31.659 --> 00:34:34.260
Cheryl wrote, whoever the shooting was on. It

00:34:34.260 --> 00:34:36.679
was just hers. And then she would write it. She'd

00:34:36.679 --> 00:34:39.559
rip it up. She'd toss it into the fire or whatever.

00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:42.219
That's such an interesting tactic. I'd be so

00:34:42.219 --> 00:34:43.880
curious like the process, but I'm going to assume

00:34:43.880 --> 00:34:46.039
it builds courage by writing it down over and

00:34:46.039 --> 00:34:49.519
over again. That's very cool. So they did this

00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:52.340
every day until Cheryl was ready to show them

00:34:52.340 --> 00:34:54.219
what she had been writing. the whole time and

00:34:54.219 --> 00:34:57.139
it said my mom. That's so heartbreaking though.

00:34:57.300 --> 00:34:59.699
My mom shot us yeah. I would have used her first

00:34:59.699 --> 00:35:01.760
name I would have been like Diane not my mom

00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:07.000
anymore. True. Don't know her. So that's exactly

00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:09.920
what she said on the stand like truly the bravest

00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:13.300
little girl on the planet like holy shit. Meanwhile,

00:35:13.719 --> 00:35:16.239
Diane is sitting there showing no emotion and

00:35:16.239 --> 00:35:20.000
just staring daggers at Cheryl. Like, don't you

00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:22.440
say it. Don't you say it. Obviously, the jury

00:35:22.440 --> 00:35:24.619
found her guilty on all charges and the judge

00:35:24.619 --> 00:35:28.280
sentenced her to life plus 50 years. Bye, bitch.

00:35:28.739 --> 00:35:30.960
But this isn't the end of the story, though.

00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:34.159
Of course not. Diane's surviving children, Christie

00:35:34.159 --> 00:35:37.019
and Danny, recovered enough to be released from

00:35:37.019 --> 00:35:40.260
the hospital and they were adopted. It makes

00:35:40.260 --> 00:35:43.000
me want to cry. They were adopted by the lead

00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:46.599
prosecutor of the trial. Oh Him and his wife

00:35:46.599 --> 00:35:49.760
adopted them that feels also so I like did they

00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:52.559
say why like what? Inspired them to adopt the

00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:54.420
two like out of all the children's I'm sure it's

00:35:54.420 --> 00:35:58.199
not the first time I think because like like

00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:02.500
Cheryl oh, I think I mixed up the names Christie

00:36:02.500 --> 00:36:05.860
is the one that was on the stand for one if I

00:36:05.860 --> 00:36:08.679
mess it up I'm sorry people are two listeners

00:36:08.989 --> 00:36:12.110
Forgive me. We're not perfect. We're not perfect.

00:36:12.190 --> 00:36:16.750
I think he was like because Christy was the prosecution's

00:36:16.750 --> 00:36:20.170
witness So he was working very closely with her

00:36:20.170 --> 00:36:23.130
and Danny to like because they I don't know what

00:36:23.130 --> 00:36:26.550
Danny Remembered he was only three. Okay at the

00:36:26.550 --> 00:36:29.590
time of the shooting. So it's like he's not Necessarily

00:36:29.590 --> 00:36:32.789
going to have the same like retention of that,

00:36:32.789 --> 00:36:36.570
right? That it the older daughter would and she

00:36:36.570 --> 00:36:39.980
happened to be awake or had woken up like as

00:36:39.980 --> 00:36:42.559
the shootings were taking place. Right. So you

00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:45.260
just felt really like connected to the kids and

00:36:45.260 --> 00:36:48.260
did not want them to get split up and didn't

00:36:48.260 --> 00:36:51.619
want them to like go to foster care and was just

00:36:51.619 --> 00:36:54.739
like no these are my children now. Oh. Just fucking

00:36:54.739 --> 00:36:59.190
adorable. Now if you remember Stupid Diane was

00:36:59.190 --> 00:37:03.010
stupid pregnant during the trial. So she's hella

00:37:03.010 --> 00:37:06.090
pregnant in prison, is induced and gives birth

00:37:06.090 --> 00:37:09.869
to a baby girl in June 1984 who was adopted by

00:37:09.869 --> 00:37:13.489
a wonderful couple in, I believe in Bend, Oregon.

00:37:14.750 --> 00:37:18.210
And we'll circle back to this child in a bit

00:37:18.210 --> 00:37:21.429
because our girl Diane, she's not done with her

00:37:21.429 --> 00:37:24.389
insanity yet. What could she possibly get up

00:37:24.389 --> 00:37:27.530
to now? She's in prison. Honestly, a lot. They

00:37:27.530 --> 00:37:30.710
get up to a lot in prison, actually. It should

00:37:30.710 --> 00:37:32.570
be talked about. They really they get up to a

00:37:32.570 --> 00:37:35.130
lot. They have phones. Well, back then, obviously

00:37:35.130 --> 00:37:39.730
they don't. You know what I mean? I know. So,

00:37:39.730 --> 00:37:43.929
um, she escapes from the Oregon Women's Correctional

00:37:43.929 --> 00:37:46.789
Facility in Salem, Oregon. How does she escape?

00:37:47.329 --> 00:37:52.300
Fucking obviously she does. One day she scales

00:37:52.300 --> 00:37:55.400
the razor wire fence, hops down and runs off.

00:37:55.619 --> 00:37:59.159
Apparently, there's like mixed versions of this,

00:37:59.699 --> 00:38:04.639
but one of her fellow inmates said that her husband

00:38:04.639 --> 00:38:08.860
lived close by and Diane can go there. Oh, wait,

00:38:09.179 --> 00:38:12.500
the inmate's husband. Yes, the inmate is like,

00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:15.940
yo, girlfriend, my husband lives super close.

00:38:16.179 --> 00:38:19.340
If you make your escape, you can go to his place.

00:38:19.449 --> 00:38:22.349
and then I'll make my escape and we'll rendezvous

00:38:22.349 --> 00:38:25.170
at my husband's house. Clearly she doesn't know

00:38:25.170 --> 00:38:28.530
that Diane is a husband stealer. Literally. So

00:38:28.530 --> 00:38:30.690
everybody's freaking out because she fucking

00:38:30.690 --> 00:38:35.769
escapes, but she's found 10 days later and she

00:38:35.769 --> 00:38:39.250
exits the dude's place wearing a t -shirt and

00:38:39.250 --> 00:38:42.619
his boxers. The husband? The husband's boxers.

00:38:42.820 --> 00:38:46.000
The other inmate never escaped. Yeah, her husband

00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:48.820
couldn't care less. Right, and let's be real,

00:38:49.119 --> 00:38:51.500
she was definitely bumping uglies with that man's.

00:38:51.500 --> 00:38:53.900
Probably trying to get pregnant again. That was

00:38:53.900 --> 00:38:56.500
probably, like, she probably planned the escape,

00:38:56.519 --> 00:39:00.099
like, around her cycle. to get pregnant she was

00:39:00.099 --> 00:39:02.559
tracking it she said okay if i get out now she

00:39:02.559 --> 00:39:05.059
literally says that in an in an interview that

00:39:05.059 --> 00:39:07.820
she didn't know she knew yes she said not about

00:39:07.820 --> 00:39:11.039
this specifically but when she got pregnant before

00:39:11.039 --> 00:39:14.300
she got arrested she said that reporter i knew

00:39:14.300 --> 00:39:16.679
yeah to the reporter she said i know my cycle

00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:20.519
so well that i knew exactly if i slept With somebody

00:39:20.519 --> 00:39:22.760
around this time I would get pregnant and she

00:39:22.760 --> 00:39:25.760
was like it's so easy to get pregnant impossible

00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:29.820
actually She was like it's just so easy for women

00:39:29.820 --> 00:39:33.199
to get pregnant and I was like I can't even imagine

00:39:33.199 --> 00:39:35.800
all of the women who like have wanted to have

00:39:35.800 --> 00:39:39.300
children hearing that and like haven't They couldn't.

00:39:39.300 --> 00:39:41.420
And the most undeserving woman can. Literally.

00:39:42.039 --> 00:39:45.179
Shut your mouth. These are the people who are

00:39:45.179 --> 00:39:47.760
able to conceive so easily are the ones that

00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:50.619
are like the scum of the earth. It pisses me

00:39:50.619 --> 00:39:53.639
off, actually. That's what I said at the top

00:39:53.639 --> 00:39:56.440
of this episode. This fucking bitch, dude. Piss.

00:39:56.539 --> 00:40:01.219
But she's back in custody and the Salem prison

00:40:01.219 --> 00:40:05.400
is very low security. I think mainly for the

00:40:05.400 --> 00:40:11.099
women. And from what I read, the women's prison

00:40:11.099 --> 00:40:14.019
building was outside of the walls of the men's

00:40:14.019 --> 00:40:18.159
prison and much smaller. And go figure, they

00:40:18.159 --> 00:40:20.679
paid more attention to the men than the women.

00:40:21.300 --> 00:40:23.880
I find this offensive because one was smarter.

00:40:25.219 --> 00:40:28.599
I said, even incarcerated, terrible men get more

00:40:28.599 --> 00:40:31.340
attention than women. Well, and like, they think

00:40:31.340 --> 00:40:33.619
that they're less likely to escape, so they don't

00:40:33.619 --> 00:40:35.539
need to pay, like, they need to pay more attention.

00:40:35.800 --> 00:40:39.380
Or they're more likely to escape. Hello? Tulip

00:40:39.380 --> 00:40:41.139
has been jumping the fence. Tulips might go,

00:40:41.280 --> 00:40:44.820
everyone. Jumping the fence for days now. Basil

00:40:44.820 --> 00:40:47.599
can't figure it out. Boys are not that much smarter.

00:40:48.179 --> 00:40:50.219
That's insane. So they're like, OK, men are going

00:40:50.219 --> 00:40:52.559
to escape. So we got to watch them when hands

00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:55.500
down, women work harder than the FBI. And they're

00:40:55.500 --> 00:41:00.610
just like, yeah, that's classic. But they don't

00:41:00.610 --> 00:41:04.610
want to keep Diane in the Salem prison because

00:41:04.610 --> 00:41:08.429
she'll def try to escape again So they transfer

00:41:08.429 --> 00:41:14.210
her to a prison in New Jersey And the reason

00:41:14.210 --> 00:41:17.630
they did this because I guess like back in the

00:41:17.630 --> 00:41:26.150
day Like trade prisoners they're like Reaching

00:41:26.150 --> 00:41:29.230
out to prisons like yo, can you can you take

00:41:29.230 --> 00:41:33.449
in Diane Downs and they're like Sure, but only

00:41:33.449 --> 00:41:40.050
if you take these two. Okay prisoners It was

00:41:40.050 --> 00:41:43.130
the eighties, I don't know they were wild and

00:41:43.130 --> 00:41:46.289
in the eighties So yeah, she's sent to prison

00:41:46.289 --> 00:41:49.309
in New Jersey later in the early 90s She was

00:41:49.309 --> 00:41:51.670
transferred to Washington Corrections Center

00:41:51.670 --> 00:41:55.119
for women and then to Central California Women's

00:41:55.119 --> 00:41:58.039
Facility in 1993, which is where she resides

00:41:58.039 --> 00:42:02.699
currently. Like today? She's still alive. She

00:42:02.699 --> 00:42:07.539
just had a parole hearing last year and I watched

00:42:07.539 --> 00:42:09.980
the video today because it was like a Zoom video

00:42:09.980 --> 00:42:12.760
of her like pleading her case. She still says

00:42:12.760 --> 00:42:15.920
she's innocent and she's just this old grandma

00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:19.349
bitch. Just like, but like the same personality

00:42:19.349 --> 00:42:21.710
from like every interview that she originally

00:42:21.710 --> 00:42:25.050
did in the eighties. With no remorse? Nope. She's

00:42:25.050 --> 00:42:26.889
like, I didn't do it. If I did, I would have

00:42:26.889 --> 00:42:29.789
done a good job. Such an idiot. But what she

00:42:29.789 --> 00:42:32.409
says is she said in the, I think in the latest

00:42:32.409 --> 00:42:36.190
parole hearing, she said, I, I was not the person

00:42:36.190 --> 00:42:40.869
who shot my children, but I did, um, like I'm

00:42:40.869 --> 00:42:44.730
not guilty of that. Crime, but I am guilty of

00:42:44.730 --> 00:42:47.250
putting my kids in danger that night and that

00:42:47.250 --> 00:42:50.170
she'll never be able to forgive shut up Diane

00:42:50.170 --> 00:42:53.429
I know I'm like I fucking hate you but back to

00:42:53.429 --> 00:42:55.829
the daughter that she had when she was pregnant

00:42:55.829 --> 00:42:59.150
in prison Yeah, and this was gonna be the end

00:42:59.150 --> 00:43:02.110
of the case like right before this and then you

00:43:02.110 --> 00:43:04.809
found more Yes, I felt this is why I told you

00:43:04.809 --> 00:43:08.050
earlier. I was like I couldn't stop because I

00:43:08.050 --> 00:43:11.460
had I forgot about this part of this case until

00:43:11.460 --> 00:43:14.980
I was listening to another podcast called Happy

00:43:14.980 --> 00:43:20.400
Face. The first season of that podcast, it's

00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:24.119
the daughter of the Happy Face killer. It's on

00:43:24.119 --> 00:43:27.159
my list to cover. She goes through and talks

00:43:27.159 --> 00:43:30.320
about her experience being the child of a serial

00:43:30.320 --> 00:43:34.420
killer. Her name is Melissa Moore. Anyway, she

00:43:34.420 --> 00:43:36.440
did a separate season talking to the daughter

00:43:36.440 --> 00:43:41.130
Diane had in prison. And so she gave birth to

00:43:41.130 --> 00:43:47.269
this baby girl in 1984 and Diane named her Amy.

00:43:47.550 --> 00:43:49.750
But the baby was adopted by a couple in Bend,

00:43:49.750 --> 00:43:52.750
Oregon and named her Rebecca Babcock. She goes

00:43:52.750 --> 00:43:57.309
by Becky. And in the Happy Face podcast, Melissa

00:43:57.309 --> 00:44:00.590
Moore talks to Becky about her life, how she

00:44:00.590 --> 00:44:02.710
came to find out who her birth mother was, how

00:44:02.710 --> 00:44:06.210
it affected her, et cetera, et cetera. So in

00:44:06.210 --> 00:44:09.699
Becky's early adolescence, she had asked her

00:44:09.699 --> 00:44:12.960
adopted mother about her birth parents and her

00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:14.960
mom originally said something along the lines

00:44:14.960 --> 00:44:18.119
of like, you're too young, we'll tell you when

00:44:18.119 --> 00:44:19.940
you're older. And then Becky got a little bit

00:44:19.940 --> 00:44:23.500
older and she kept asking and they eventually

00:44:23.500 --> 00:44:26.980
were like, listen, your bio mom did terrible

00:44:26.980 --> 00:44:29.519
things and you don't need to know anything about

00:44:29.519 --> 00:44:31.860
her and we're not going to tell you anything.

00:44:32.440 --> 00:44:36.179
But Becky is a sneaky little gal. Because I feel

00:44:36.179 --> 00:44:39.079
like that's not fair to be like, You don't get

00:44:39.079 --> 00:44:42.780
to know Especially after saying we'll tell you

00:44:42.780 --> 00:44:44.360
when you're older and they're like just kidding.

00:44:44.380 --> 00:44:47.840
We're not telling you anything ever JK So one

00:44:47.840 --> 00:44:50.280
day when she was 11 years old, she tricked her

00:44:50.280 --> 00:44:54.159
babysitter Into revealing who her bio mom was.

00:44:54.280 --> 00:44:57.460
She said something like which I don't know why

00:44:57.460 --> 00:45:01.099
the babysitter knows Who her biological mother

00:45:01.099 --> 00:45:04.340
is that's actually a good point, you know Unless

00:45:04.340 --> 00:45:07.400
there was like rumors spreading and like someone's

00:45:07.400 --> 00:45:10.099
mom told someone's mom this and now they know

00:45:10.099 --> 00:45:13.019
Parents never the parents never disclosed it

00:45:13.019 --> 00:45:15.480
to anybody her adopted parents never disclosed

00:45:15.480 --> 00:45:19.179
like they knew who Diane was but like they were

00:45:19.179 --> 00:45:23.380
broadcasted were they like hey My child ever

00:45:23.380 --> 00:45:26.119
show that's what I was thinking too. Yeah, like,

00:45:26.239 --> 00:45:30.460
you know if She asks whatever Maybe you don't

00:45:30.460 --> 00:45:32.659
know anything She doesn't know anything. She

00:45:32.659 --> 00:45:34.559
doesn't need to know anything, but whatever.

00:45:36.519 --> 00:45:39.440
So Becky said something to the babysitter along

00:45:39.440 --> 00:45:42.019
the lines of like, oh, I know about my bio mom.

00:45:42.260 --> 00:45:44.500
Now my parents told me and the babysitter was

00:45:44.500 --> 00:45:48.719
like, oh, so you know about Diane Downs. And

00:45:48.719 --> 00:45:52.179
now Becky has a name. So she goes to the library

00:45:52.179 --> 00:45:55.619
and she looks up Diane Downs. She reads the book

00:45:55.619 --> 00:45:58.980
that Ann Rule wrote about Diane. in this whole

00:45:58.980 --> 00:46:03.739
case. Ann Rohl is the girl who worked with Ted

00:46:03.739 --> 00:46:06.780
Bundy at the Suicide Prevention Hotline Center.

00:46:07.519 --> 00:46:09.400
Oh, okay. Because I was like, should I know this

00:46:09.400 --> 00:46:14.760
name? Yes, you should. After Ted Bundy got arrested,

00:46:14.900 --> 00:46:17.699
she was like in disbelief. And then she was like,

00:46:17.940 --> 00:46:20.280
I pivoted her career into becoming a true crime

00:46:20.280 --> 00:46:23.989
novelist. So Diane goes to the library, she reads

00:46:23.989 --> 00:46:26.789
this book and learns all about all of the fuck

00:46:26.789 --> 00:46:30.590
shit that Diane pulled. And she's 11 years old.

00:46:31.030 --> 00:46:34.949
That's crazy. 11 years old. And after discovering

00:46:34.949 --> 00:46:37.769
this, like she'd wanted to know so badly her

00:46:37.769 --> 00:46:41.150
bio mom was. And then when she found out, she

00:46:41.150 --> 00:46:44.630
wished she hadn't known. Yeah, of course. Right.

00:46:44.809 --> 00:46:47.940
Like it really messed her up for a while. She

00:46:47.940 --> 00:46:50.219
got into drugs and alcohol very early in her

00:46:50.219 --> 00:46:53.440
life. She got pregnant twice as a teenager. I'm

00:46:53.440 --> 00:46:57.400
confused on whether or not she kept the first

00:46:57.400 --> 00:47:00.659
baby, but the second baby that she got pregnant

00:47:00.659 --> 00:47:04.019
with was a boy and she gave it up for adoption.

00:47:04.400 --> 00:47:08.289
And after this... she decided to reach out to

00:47:08.289 --> 00:47:11.710
Diane in prison, solely because she didn't have

00:47:11.710 --> 00:47:14.489
anyone to relate to and talk to about giving

00:47:14.489 --> 00:47:17.610
your baby away up for adoption. So for some reason,

00:47:17.630 --> 00:47:20.389
she was like, I feel like I want to talk to Diane

00:47:20.389 --> 00:47:24.510
and get her take. Obviously, Diane responds like

00:47:24.510 --> 00:47:30.389
a lunatic. Shocker, right? I think the first

00:47:30.389 --> 00:47:33.280
couple of letters were fairly normal. But she

00:47:33.280 --> 00:47:37.880
would only address Becky as Amy, because that's

00:47:37.880 --> 00:47:40.059
what she originally named her when she gave birth

00:47:40.059 --> 00:47:43.260
to her. Don't piss me off. Yeah, which Becky

00:47:43.260 --> 00:47:45.900
really did not enjoy. She was like, I do not

00:47:45.900 --> 00:47:48.940
identify with this Amy person. But then Diane

00:47:48.940 --> 00:47:51.639
takes a turn and starts going on this conspiracy

00:47:51.639 --> 00:47:54.519
theory spiral saying that the man who shot her

00:47:54.519 --> 00:47:57.880
and her kids was never caught. So they know that

00:47:57.880 --> 00:48:00.800
Amy is still out there and might come after her.

00:48:00.860 --> 00:48:03.980
But don't worry, Diane has had people following

00:48:03.980 --> 00:48:07.400
quote unquote Amy to keep her safe from the shooter

00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:13.960
should he come back. And then, and then Diane

00:48:13.960 --> 00:48:17.360
pivots completely and claims that Becky is not

00:48:17.360 --> 00:48:19.880
her daughter. She's not, you're not my daughter.

00:48:20.699 --> 00:48:23.400
My Amy is out there somewhere and it's not you.

00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:27.340
And she said that Becky was just trying to con

00:48:27.340 --> 00:48:32.360
her for her fortune. Diane you're in prison You

00:48:32.360 --> 00:48:36.119
have no fortune. She wasn't she was not a well

00:48:36.119 --> 00:48:40.000
-off No, and she they were her and her kids were

00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:42.920
homeless for a while Like there's no fucking

00:48:42.920 --> 00:48:49.159
fortune But um in the podcast the happy face

00:48:49.159 --> 00:48:56.280
podcast They get Diane's brother James, which

00:48:56.280 --> 00:49:00.409
is Becky's biological uncle to meet with her

00:49:00.409 --> 00:49:04.210
and Becky's like Intention for this whole thing

00:49:04.210 --> 00:49:07.550
is to try to figure out who her biological dad

00:49:07.550 --> 00:49:13.570
is but James didn't know and Turns out he only

00:49:13.570 --> 00:49:16.070
met with Becky because he wanted to convince

00:49:16.070 --> 00:49:18.630
her that Diane is innocent You're telling me

00:49:18.630 --> 00:49:22.889
that he believes his sister look go on. I I love

00:49:22.889 --> 00:49:26.489
my sister, however Which she would never commit

00:49:26.489 --> 00:49:31.230
a crime but If it was so obvious that she committed

00:49:31.230 --> 00:49:33.809
it... And it's not even like it's a crime that's

00:49:33.809 --> 00:49:36.670
like, like she hurt her children. It'd be different

00:49:36.670 --> 00:49:38.469
if she murdered a man who did something terrible

00:49:38.469 --> 00:49:40.590
to her. I'll cover her till the end of days.

00:49:40.670 --> 00:49:44.670
But if she harmed her children and it was obvious,

00:49:44.750 --> 00:49:50.869
I'm sorry. Yeah, no. No. You have to listen to

00:49:50.869 --> 00:49:54.349
this podcast series. It's crazy. Like listening

00:49:54.349 --> 00:49:59.849
to James's like... interactions that they recorded.

00:50:00.130 --> 00:50:03.570
I'm like, he's just, he so delusionally believes

00:50:03.570 --> 00:50:06.909
that Diane is innocent. So that meeting kind

00:50:06.909 --> 00:50:10.150
of just ends with Becky being like, okay, it's

00:50:10.150 --> 00:50:12.449
cute that you think Diane's innocent. I have

00:50:12.449 --> 00:50:15.289
no interest in joining your free Diane campaign

00:50:15.289 --> 00:50:18.070
that you're trying to enlist me in. Have a nice

00:50:18.070 --> 00:50:21.170
life. To bring everything to a close, on the

00:50:21.170 --> 00:50:24.110
Hoppy, on the Hoppy, the Happy Face podcast,

00:50:24.630 --> 00:50:27.880
they enlist a DNA expert. to prove that Becky

00:50:27.880 --> 00:50:31.119
is indeed Diane Downes' daughter and to hopefully

00:50:31.119 --> 00:50:33.780
try to find her biological father. And so they

00:50:33.780 --> 00:50:39.000
were able to conclude that Diane is in fact Becky's

00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:42.480
biological mother because James had agreed to

00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:45.440
submit his DNA for this purpose. And Becky and

00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:49.679
James were a perfect match for a maternal uncle

00:50:49.679 --> 00:50:52.860
-niece relationship. It's the only good thing

00:50:52.860 --> 00:50:56.280
that Diana has done. Literally. So she is indeed

00:50:56.280 --> 00:50:59.500
Diane's daughter, and they're trying to find

00:50:59.500 --> 00:51:05.219
her biological father, which they do. Yay! The

00:51:05.219 --> 00:51:07.139
entire season when I was listening to this, I

00:51:07.139 --> 00:51:09.260
was like, oh my god, do they find out? I need

00:51:09.260 --> 00:51:13.000
to know who she fucking slept with. I need to

00:51:13.000 --> 00:51:16.320
know who she enlisted to impregnate her. Wait,

00:51:16.460 --> 00:51:20.280
it was the reporter, correct? Yes. There are

00:51:20.280 --> 00:51:24.800
a lot a there are a lot of like speculation some

00:51:24.800 --> 00:51:27.960
people said that she just hooked up with a random

00:51:27.960 --> 00:51:30.420
person on one of her mail routes people like

00:51:30.420 --> 00:51:34.570
she just one of the. houses that she delivered

00:51:34.570 --> 00:51:37.449
mail to, she seduced that man. And then there

00:51:37.449 --> 00:51:41.210
was like, another theory was like, she hooked

00:51:41.210 --> 00:51:44.329
up with like an old fling, or she just picked

00:51:44.329 --> 00:51:48.510
up some random stranger out at a bar or something.

00:51:49.130 --> 00:51:51.289
Is that Kane in the background? I was wondering

00:51:51.289 --> 00:51:53.989
if you could hear that. I'm so sorry. There's

00:51:53.989 --> 00:51:56.750
nothing outside. By the way, there's nothing

00:51:56.750 --> 00:51:59.730
for him to bark at. I can see out front. Nothing.

00:52:01.210 --> 00:52:04.289
and they're on top of like who it was like all

00:52:04.289 --> 00:52:07.170
the rumors some people like it was said that

00:52:07.170 --> 00:52:10.030
diane told the man that she was pregnant with

00:52:10.030 --> 00:52:13.530
his kid some said she never told the man so the

00:52:13.530 --> 00:52:17.010
man doesn't even know yada yada yada but unfortunately

00:52:17.010 --> 00:52:22.610
when she contacted the her biological father

00:52:22.610 --> 00:52:26.849
he knew who she was because she had been in the

00:52:26.849 --> 00:52:31.360
media for like 10 years at this point and talking

00:52:31.360 --> 00:52:35.880
about her life and the realization of... Oh,

00:52:36.059 --> 00:52:40.699
and when she was 18, when Becky was 18, she was

00:52:40.699 --> 00:52:44.960
able to order her original birth certificate.

00:52:45.300 --> 00:52:49.059
And on the birth certificate, it lists Diane

00:52:49.059 --> 00:52:54.179
as her biological mother, but the space where

00:52:54.179 --> 00:52:58.530
the father would be was empty. Yeah, she had

00:52:58.530 --> 00:53:01.349
been in the media. She had like been on Oprah

00:53:01.349 --> 00:53:06.269
and like Dr. Oz and she did a she participated

00:53:06.269 --> 00:53:11.530
in a 2020 special about Diane's case and then

00:53:11.530 --> 00:53:15.969
her involvement after the fact and dealing with

00:53:15.969 --> 00:53:19.630
it. So she's been out there and she was like,

00:53:19.670 --> 00:53:24.039
well, maybe my if my dad knew who I was. He could

00:53:24.039 --> 00:53:26.820
easily have come and found me if he wanted to.

00:53:26.940 --> 00:53:29.179
Like, I was very public. But she was like, he

00:53:29.179 --> 00:53:31.360
doesn't know, because some people say that Diane

00:53:31.360 --> 00:53:34.139
told the father. Some people say that she never

00:53:34.139 --> 00:53:36.360
told him. And then she was like, well, maybe

00:53:36.360 --> 00:53:41.219
he's not alive. So when they figured out who

00:53:41.219 --> 00:53:44.199
it was, he was a reporter. Yeah, he knew who

00:53:44.199 --> 00:53:46.039
she was because she had been in the media over

00:53:46.039 --> 00:53:48.719
the years talking about her life. But he didn't

00:53:48.719 --> 00:53:51.039
want to have any further contact going forward.

00:53:52.429 --> 00:53:54.929
I know. Bummer. But also, he would have been

00:53:54.929 --> 00:53:56.829
a bad reporter if he didn't know, like, that

00:53:56.829 --> 00:54:00.469
he had adopted, like, truly do the math. And

00:54:00.469 --> 00:54:04.210
prior to all of this, Becky had reached out to

00:54:04.210 --> 00:54:06.590
Diane's surviving children who were adopted by

00:54:06.590 --> 00:54:10.590
the prosecutors. Oh, yeah. And neither of them

00:54:10.590 --> 00:54:12.309
wanted to have a relationship with her either.

00:54:12.389 --> 00:54:16.150
Oh, I feel like that's such a bummer. I know,

00:54:16.230 --> 00:54:18.230
right? Because, like, you don't ask to be born

00:54:18.230 --> 00:54:21.344
into this, like, psychopath. OK, so after...

00:54:21.340 --> 00:54:26.159
In the very last episode of this season of that

00:54:26.159 --> 00:54:30.480
podcast, they got a hold of, I think they spoke

00:54:30.480 --> 00:54:34.079
to Diane's defense attorney and he gave them

00:54:34.079 --> 00:54:37.320
this letter that she had written him from prison

00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:42.179
after she was convicted. It's the most absurd

00:54:42.179 --> 00:54:45.619
thing ever. Straight from the podcast because

00:54:45.619 --> 00:54:50.400
it's very long and it's read by a voice actor.

00:54:50.599 --> 00:54:52.679
The letter does not in fact line up with the

00:54:52.679 --> 00:54:54.840
version of the story she tells today. Though

00:54:54.840 --> 00:54:56.719
it's impossible to know which version of the

00:54:56.719 --> 00:54:59.539
events is true, we present the letter as an interesting

00:54:59.539 --> 00:55:04.480
artifact in the case. November 7, 1984, Salem,

00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:08.539
Oregon. Dear Jim, I am not really sure how to

00:55:08.539 --> 00:55:10.420
start this letter, but I guess the best way to

00:55:10.420 --> 00:55:14.739
make an apology is to say I'm sorry. You're probably

00:55:14.739 --> 00:55:17.440
wondering what this is all about. And when you

00:55:17.440 --> 00:55:19.420
are through reading, you'll probably drop this

00:55:19.420 --> 00:55:22.900
letter and say, damn you Diane, like you have

00:55:22.900 --> 00:55:26.119
so many times before. Your blood pressure will

00:55:26.119 --> 00:55:29.619
go up and I'm sorry about that too. I'm sorry

00:55:29.619 --> 00:55:33.219
about a lot of things, really. I only hope you

00:55:33.219 --> 00:55:36.019
will forgive me for not being totally honest

00:55:36.019 --> 00:55:38.719
with you. It's just that it's so hard for me

00:55:38.719 --> 00:55:41.800
to put myself in someone else's hands. I find

00:55:41.800 --> 00:55:44.920
it hard to fully trust anyone not to hurt me.

00:55:45.139 --> 00:55:48.440
I needed to control myself and my situation.

00:55:48.960 --> 00:55:51.639
And I've been that way for a few years. It has

00:55:51.639 --> 00:55:54.579
been a hard lesson to learn and I can't guarantee

00:55:54.579 --> 00:55:57.920
that I'll be cured forever. But I know now that

00:55:57.920 --> 00:56:00.840
I should have placed this whole problem in your

00:56:00.840 --> 00:56:04.260
hands and let you deal with it. But I was afraid,

00:56:04.539 --> 00:56:06.900
silly maybe, but I was afraid you would lose

00:56:06.900 --> 00:56:11.039
respect for me. And well, let me explain. Hopefully

00:56:11.039 --> 00:56:13.239
by the time you finish reading this you'll have

00:56:13.239 --> 00:56:16.280
an understanding of me and I'll have your forgiveness.

00:56:16.880 --> 00:56:20.139
I had no right to hire you as my attorney and

00:56:20.139 --> 00:56:22.239
then expect you to represent me without telling

00:56:22.239 --> 00:56:26.159
you everything I could. I really am grateful

00:56:26.159 --> 00:56:28.739
for your representation and support these past

00:56:28.739 --> 00:56:32.340
17 months and because of that I cannot be comfortable

00:56:32.340 --> 00:56:36.019
with myself unless I come clean with you. Again,

00:56:36.239 --> 00:56:38.539
I am sorry for thinking I had to handle things

00:56:38.539 --> 00:56:41.639
myself. I should have let go for once in my life

00:56:41.639 --> 00:56:44.880
and let someone else take over for a while. Please

00:56:44.880 --> 00:56:48.780
understand and forgive. This letter may get lengthy,

00:56:48.840 --> 00:56:52.239
but please bear with me. I have a lot of conscience

00:56:52.239 --> 00:56:55.619
to relieve. Perhaps it's best to start with the

00:56:55.619 --> 00:56:57.619
night of the shooting. I wasn't totally honest

00:56:57.619 --> 00:56:59.320
because I was afraid of what else could happen

00:56:59.320 --> 00:57:03.530
to me at the hands of the police. I had marijuana

00:57:03.530 --> 00:57:06.150
in my car when I stopped on Old Mohawk, and I

00:57:06.150 --> 00:57:08.670
was afraid if I told the whole truth, I would

00:57:08.670 --> 00:57:11.269
lose my job at the post office because of the

00:57:11.269 --> 00:57:14.510
drug charge, and I couldn't afford that. So I

00:57:14.510 --> 00:57:16.909
told as much of the truth as I could without

00:57:16.909 --> 00:57:18.929
saying the things that would make me look like

00:57:18.929 --> 00:57:22.710
a creep. I had also hoped that by eliminating

00:57:22.710 --> 00:57:25.110
certain facts, that the police would not find

00:57:25.110 --> 00:57:29.090
out that I had rather loose morals. I did not

00:57:29.090 --> 00:57:31.030
want people that I respected to think poorly

00:57:31.030 --> 00:57:34.469
of me. So when I got to the hospital, I couldn't

00:57:34.469 --> 00:57:36.769
tell the police I opened the trunk because they

00:57:36.769 --> 00:57:39.809
would want to know what I removed. And it was

00:57:39.809 --> 00:57:43.650
pot. But while I had the trunk open, I didn't

00:57:43.650 --> 00:57:47.869
see him remove the black case. Yes, the black

00:57:47.869 --> 00:57:51.510
case with Steve's gun in it. I'm sorry I lied,

00:57:51.550 --> 00:57:54.670
but I couldn't explain the presence of the gun

00:57:54.670 --> 00:57:58.110
without telling you about the pot. So while it

00:57:58.110 --> 00:58:00.750
is very possible that an officer can make one

00:58:00.750 --> 00:58:04.429
mistake in an effort to trap a criminal, I don't

00:58:04.429 --> 00:58:08.409
think it happened this time. It just all seems

00:58:08.409 --> 00:58:11.610
so harmless in the beginning, Jim. Dickens and

00:58:11.610 --> 00:58:14.130
I were coming back from Heathers, and when we

00:58:14.130 --> 00:58:15.889
turned around the south side of Sunderman Road,

00:58:16.010 --> 00:58:19.269
a guy started playing catch up with me. I was

00:58:19.269 --> 00:58:22.130
driving slower than most people do, so he passed

00:58:22.130 --> 00:58:24.909
me. Then he pulled in front of me and slowed

00:58:24.909 --> 00:58:29.210
down, so I passed him. It was a game, just a

00:58:29.210 --> 00:58:32.869
flirt. We pulled off Markala onto Old Mohawk.

00:58:33.409 --> 00:58:37.949
Why? Just because the kids were asleep. He was

00:58:37.949 --> 00:58:40.789
a man, and I wasn't really tired yet. I like

00:58:40.789 --> 00:58:44.030
men, and I love to flirt. Maybe some would say

00:58:44.030 --> 00:58:48.349
it's because she's just a tramp. Anyway, I pulled

00:58:48.349 --> 00:58:51.289
over on Old Mohawk, and he stopped behind me.

00:58:51.920 --> 00:58:54.539
When I get out of the car, I check the kids and

00:58:54.539 --> 00:58:57.320
they were all asleep. I did take the keys off

00:58:57.320 --> 00:58:59.699
of the ignition and had them hung on my finger.

00:59:00.079 --> 00:59:02.039
We talked for a couple of minutes and I looked

00:59:02.039 --> 00:59:05.159
at the kids and they were still asleep. He asked

00:59:05.159 --> 00:59:08.239
if I had any smoke and even though he wasn't

00:59:08.239 --> 00:59:10.519
exactly my kind of guy, I figured it would be

00:59:10.519 --> 00:59:13.239
better to placate him rather than offend him.

00:59:13.559 --> 00:59:17.099
So I opened the trunk and removed the bag. I

00:59:17.099 --> 00:59:19.320
had to dig under a couple of things to get it

00:59:19.320 --> 00:59:22.059
and I did not see him remove anything from the

00:59:22.059 --> 00:59:24.820
trunk. When I straightened up and closed the

00:59:24.820 --> 00:59:28.000
trunk, I saw what he had in his hand. I don't

00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:31.260
recall our conversation verbatim, but we discussed

00:59:31.260 --> 00:59:34.199
the reason he had taken the gun and at that time

00:59:34.199 --> 00:59:37.380
he had removed it from the case. He started acting

00:59:37.380 --> 00:59:40.099
a little strange and that's when I started to

00:59:40.099 --> 00:59:43.400
get scared, which I rarely do. He made sexual

00:59:43.400 --> 00:59:46.239
advances, and I handed him the pot and tried

00:59:46.239 --> 00:59:49.460
to get his mind on another subject. Honestly,

00:59:49.760 --> 00:59:53.079
Jim, all I did was try to discourage his advances,

00:59:53.320 --> 00:59:57.099
and he flipped. He tossed the black case and

00:59:57.099 --> 00:59:59.460
the pot on the hood of his car and grabbed my

00:59:59.460 --> 01:00:03.099
left arm. It made me mad and scared at the time,

01:00:03.099 --> 01:00:07.019
so I pulled my arm free and said no. That was

01:00:07.019 --> 01:00:09.699
when he went to open the door of my car. I moved

01:00:09.699 --> 01:00:13.219
toward him, but looked in the little wing window

01:00:13.219 --> 01:00:16.780
as he shot my Christy. She really was asleep,

01:00:16.940 --> 01:00:20.219
Jim. But she woke up and raised herself before

01:00:20.219 --> 01:00:22.900
he shot her again. I really don't know who he

01:00:22.900 --> 01:00:25.699
shot next, and I don't see why it matters. I

01:00:25.699 --> 01:00:28.739
don't know if he got in the car or not. All I

01:00:28.739 --> 01:00:32.300
do know is I saw my daughter, my Christy, bleeding.

01:00:32.920 --> 01:00:35.880
I just stood there, paralyzed. Chris and I are

01:00:35.880 --> 01:00:38.320
empathic, and I couldn't separate myself from

01:00:38.320 --> 01:00:42.099
her pain and terror. It was almost as if I was

01:00:42.099 --> 01:00:45.179
a part of her. Now, you'll probably sit back

01:00:45.179 --> 01:00:48.880
and say, yup, Diane's a real crazy. But if you

01:00:48.880 --> 01:00:51.340
do, it's only because you've never loved anyone

01:00:51.340 --> 01:00:54.800
or up your life as much as I did with my kids.

01:00:55.559 --> 01:00:58.119
It's hard for me to explain how much I love my

01:00:58.119 --> 01:01:01.659
kids and need them. Love seems like such an inadequate

01:01:01.659 --> 01:01:05.199
word. Perhaps if you ever want to talk to me

01:01:05.199 --> 01:01:09.030
again, I can try to explain it. Anyways, when

01:01:09.030 --> 01:01:11.389
he swung back toward me, I was startled that

01:01:11.389 --> 01:01:14.369
the guy hit my right hand and the keys did jingle,

01:01:14.929 --> 01:01:17.130
but he didn't ask for the car. He didn't say

01:01:17.130 --> 01:01:19.230
anything because I hit him and I guess he was

01:01:19.230 --> 01:01:21.710
too mad for words. I'm sorry I can't say why

01:01:21.710 --> 01:01:24.670
he didn't say anything. This letter is not for

01:01:24.670 --> 01:01:27.929
speculation, but I can say that he looks angry.

01:01:28.630 --> 01:01:31.329
He grabbed my left arm again and I tried to break

01:01:31.329 --> 01:01:34.809
free. Just then I heard the gunfire two times

01:01:34.809 --> 01:01:37.800
and my arm fell to my side. It may sound strange,

01:01:38.019 --> 01:01:40.920
Jim, but in that moment I didn't feel fear or

01:01:40.920 --> 01:01:45.619
hysteria anymore. I was angry and I guess motivated

01:01:45.619 --> 01:01:48.760
would be a good word for how I felt. He was looking

01:01:48.760 --> 01:01:51.420
at the gun and I pushed him. I jumped in and

01:01:51.420 --> 01:01:54.059
inserted the keys and left. I have no idea if

01:01:54.059 --> 01:01:57.340
he fell or what. I wasn't looking at him. I remember

01:01:57.340 --> 01:02:01.239
very little of the trip to the hospital. I recall

01:02:01.239 --> 01:02:03.699
trying to help Chrissy and hearing Danny cry

01:02:03.699 --> 01:02:06.969
and telling Sherry to wake up. I remember blood

01:02:06.969 --> 01:02:10.210
and odors in a white fence. I recall opening

01:02:10.210 --> 01:02:12.869
the window, but the rest is black. I'm sorry,

01:02:12.929 --> 01:02:16.269
I don't recall much more. Or maybe I'm glad I

01:02:16.269 --> 01:02:19.409
don't recall much more. At any rate, my memory

01:02:19.409 --> 01:02:23.329
is gone. At the hospital, I can't say I was very

01:02:23.329 --> 01:02:26.469
reactive, but perhaps I looked cool, calm, and

01:02:26.469 --> 01:02:30.190
collected to everyone. Know me. My kids needed

01:02:30.190 --> 01:02:32.610
help in a way that I could not help, so I got

01:02:32.610 --> 01:02:35.760
them to the doctor. but it's hard for me to just

01:02:35.760 --> 01:02:37.760
turn my life over to someone else and let go.

01:02:37.960 --> 01:02:40.880
So I used all my strength to hold together so

01:02:40.880 --> 01:02:42.500
I would be ready when they needed me to help.

01:02:43.179 --> 01:02:45.320
I didn't want to become a basket case that the

01:02:45.320 --> 01:02:46.920
doctor would have to knock out because I had

01:02:46.920 --> 01:02:50.199
to be ready and able to support my kids emotionally.

01:02:50.639 --> 01:02:53.760
Then of course there was the police force. They

01:02:53.760 --> 01:02:55.960
needed answers and I did tell them what I could.

01:02:56.329 --> 01:02:59.329
I couldn't tell them about my loose morals, which

01:02:59.329 --> 01:03:01.690
put us in a dangerous situation because I didn't

01:03:01.690 --> 01:03:03.849
want my parents and the hospital staff and the

01:03:03.849 --> 01:03:06.769
police to think I was a tramp. And I couldn't

01:03:06.769 --> 01:03:09.130
tell them about the pot and therefore I couldn't

01:03:09.130 --> 01:03:11.570
tell them about the gun. But I told them where

01:03:11.570 --> 01:03:17.690
to look and I know I sound very confused and

01:03:17.690 --> 01:03:21.150
to be truthful. I was a mess. It didn't hit me.

01:03:21.280 --> 01:03:23.320
and that when they found him, they would find

01:03:23.320 --> 01:03:26.099
out about the first and the pot and the gun.

01:03:26.679 --> 01:03:29.500
I just knew that I could not tell them. As time

01:03:29.500 --> 01:03:32.340
passed, and not very much of it at that, the

01:03:32.340 --> 01:03:34.400
police and everyone else found out about my attraction

01:03:34.400 --> 01:03:38.500
to men. But then it was impossible for me to

01:03:38.500 --> 01:03:41.380
go back and retract my half -truth. And as far

01:03:41.380 --> 01:03:44.460
as I was concerned, and still am, it doesn't

01:03:44.460 --> 01:03:47.000
really matter why I stopped. So I didn't tell

01:03:47.000 --> 01:03:49.519
them the rest. Then everyone almost was saying

01:03:49.519 --> 01:03:52.219
that I was the one who shot my kids and they

01:03:52.219 --> 01:03:55.119
said it was Steve's gun that was used and therefore

01:03:55.119 --> 01:03:58.039
that proved I was guilty. Well, by that time

01:03:58.039 --> 01:04:00.320
it wouldn't have mattered because if I wanted

01:04:00.320 --> 01:04:03.420
to risk my job by telling about the pot and explaining

01:04:03.420 --> 01:04:05.239
what happened because they would have used that

01:04:05.239 --> 01:04:08.619
gun against me. I was afraid, Jim, afraid of

01:04:08.619 --> 01:04:11.280
what people would think of me. Ironic, isn't

01:04:11.280 --> 01:04:16.820
it? Okay, pause. She's so worried about getting

01:04:17.159 --> 01:04:21.139
Losing her job. Yeah losing her job over pot

01:04:21.139 --> 01:04:25.380
when her kids have been She's not what once mentioned

01:04:25.380 --> 01:04:27.679
her concern over her children She's worried that

01:04:27.679 --> 01:04:30.179
she'll be perceived as a tramp that she'll lose

01:04:30.179 --> 01:04:34.440
her job. What I'm like, yo If my kids are like

01:04:34.440 --> 01:04:37.380
gravely in danger and like bleeding to death

01:04:37.380 --> 01:04:41.260
have been shot multiple times the last thing

01:04:41.260 --> 01:04:45.219
on my mind is Losing my job or that people perceive

01:04:45.219 --> 01:04:49.139
me as a tramp. Yeah, that's the only thing on

01:04:49.139 --> 01:04:52.619
my mind is my kids The safety of my children

01:04:52.619 --> 01:04:55.320
getting my kids to the hospital That's crazy

01:04:55.320 --> 01:04:58.079
and remember she like wrapped her injury around

01:04:58.079 --> 01:05:02.099
in a towel and drove five miles an hour To the

01:05:02.099 --> 01:05:05.199
hospital that was two miles away. That's crazy.

01:05:05.219 --> 01:05:08.579
Okay continue I want anyone to know I had loose

01:05:08.579 --> 01:05:11.360
morals and now they think I'm a murderess. And

01:05:11.360 --> 01:05:13.280
it's all because they wouldn't own up to my real

01:05:13.280 --> 01:05:15.780
faults. Well, then I retained you to help my

01:05:15.780 --> 01:05:18.679
daughter and ended up needing you myself. But

01:05:18.679 --> 01:05:21.139
by the time I needed you, I respected you and

01:05:21.139 --> 01:05:22.900
looked up to you. I didn't want you to think

01:05:22.900 --> 01:05:27.440
of me as a liar or weakling. So what did I do

01:05:27.440 --> 01:05:31.719
to cover the lies? Lie some more. But I can't

01:05:31.719 --> 01:05:34.550
stand it anymore. You can only keep it up for

01:05:34.550 --> 01:05:36.869
so long before it becomes like in your throat

01:05:36.869 --> 01:05:40.010
I've gotten to the place that I can't even look

01:05:40.010 --> 01:05:43.550
at myself anymore you proved yourself not only

01:05:43.550 --> 01:05:48.190
a good attorney but a friend and I can't that

01:05:48.190 --> 01:05:51.829
I Never confess the lies then I have used you

01:05:51.829 --> 01:05:54.909
and I can't live with that in my conscience forever

01:05:54.909 --> 01:05:59.230
So here I am Asking you to forgive me for being

01:05:59.230 --> 01:06:03.360
a liar and a tramp. I am ashamed of myself And

01:06:03.360 --> 01:06:05.380
I don't deserve it, but I truly hope you can

01:06:05.380 --> 01:06:09.360
forgive me and put everything else behind. I

01:06:09.360 --> 01:06:11.960
know I've many things and I've had all kinds

01:06:11.960 --> 01:06:15.099
of explanations for all the kinds of things.

01:06:15.360 --> 01:06:18.840
And I'm sorry. I wish I had never omitted part

01:06:18.840 --> 01:06:23.719
of the truth. I wish. Well, it's all behind me

01:06:23.719 --> 01:06:27.360
now. I'm sorry. Doesn't seem like enough, but

01:06:27.360 --> 01:06:32.369
I am sorry. Respectfully, Diane. Is that not

01:06:32.369 --> 01:06:36.550
the most unhinged? She's a narcissist. Yeah.

01:06:36.829 --> 01:06:40.530
Oh, she was diagnosed as a, like, clinical narcissist

01:06:40.530 --> 01:06:44.210
and, like, she got diagnosed with, like, psychotic

01:06:44.210 --> 01:06:47.590
something or other. We're not psychiatrists.

01:06:47.750 --> 01:06:50.070
We don't... You know, I don't know all the rules.

01:06:50.349 --> 01:06:54.050
What I do know, though, is woman ain't sorry.

01:06:54.989 --> 01:06:58.030
And Jim, I hope he didn't accept her apology.

01:06:58.190 --> 01:07:00.309
I hope he wrote her back and said, no, thank

01:07:00.309 --> 01:07:03.360
you. I hope you never contacted her again. What

01:07:03.360 --> 01:07:08.179
a lunatic. Isn't that fucking crazy? Insane behavior.

01:07:08.920 --> 01:07:13.340
Oh, she's the worst. Well, hell. Yep. So that's

01:07:13.340 --> 01:07:18.360
the case of Diane Downs. Fucking monster. Okay.

01:07:18.679 --> 01:07:22.559
She's still alive. She's like 70 now and still

01:07:22.559 --> 01:07:26.500
trying to appeal like every opportunity she has.

01:07:26.719 --> 01:07:29.440
All right, so that's Diane. Keep it chaotic.

01:07:29.760 --> 01:07:32.400
Keep it creepy. Until next time. Bye.