Welcome back to the podcast, Crimes and Chaos.
It's episode two. I'm Kate. I'm Kayla. And we've
got a bit of a downer case this week. But like,
there's some like, ridiculousness that makes
it comical, to an extent. And I'm curious if
you'll recognize what the... this case is. Today
we're talking about Diane Downs. Rings not a
single bell. This fucking bitch, dude. And this
happened in Oregon. Majority of the case happens
in Oregon. And I'm curious, I'm probably gonna
have you Google it later to see how close it
is to where I am currently. But, okay. Elizabeth
Diane Fredrickson was born August 7th, 1955 to
parents Wes and Willadine Fredrickson in Phoenix,
Arizona. She was raised in a strict Christian
household but started to act out as a teenager.
She even accused her father of molesting her
but ends up recanting that statement later. What
a gem. After high school, Diane enrolled at Pacific
Coast Baptist Bible College in California, which
Jesus fucking Christ. What a mouthful. Right?
That's a lot. When I was typing it out, I was
like, this is the longest fucking name. And also
having gone to, like, Catholic high school and
stuff, I'm like, oh, my God, what a bummer. But
she also fucked Diane. I don't care. She only
lasted. there for one year before she was expelled
for promiscuity. She's a little hoe. Good for
her. If there's anything you need to know about
Diane Downs, she's a fucking hoe. And you know
what? We don't slut shame around here. We do
for her. Oh, oh, we don't like her. Okay, my
bad. We don't like Diane. So she gets expelled
and she has to go back to live with her parents
in Arizona. But she... runs away to marry her
high school sweetheart Steve Downs in November
1973, when he returned home from the Navy despite
her parents blatant disapproval. And they're
still in Arizona at this point. In 1974, she
has her first daughter, Christy Ann, followed
by her second Cheryl in 1976. And at some point
in the years after their second daughter her
husband Steve had gotten a vasectomy and Diane
was having an affair with a man named Mark Sager
or Sager. I don't know how to say that last name
like that author, you know, Riley. Oh, Riley
Sager. I always say Sager. I could be wrong.
Okay, maybe this man is Mark Sager. So since
Steve had had a vasectomy, obviously, the child
that she gets pregnant with a little boy that
they named Stephen Daniel Danny in 1979. She
named it after her husband. Yeah, that's really
fucked up. So Diane and Steve had a very tumultuous
marriage, constantly arguing over finances and
alleged or not so alleged affairs on both sides.
Also some domestic violence involved in their
marriage. home to be raising your three young
children in. But Steve divorces Diane in 1980
after discovering their son that was named after
him was actually not his but that of Diane's
man on the side. So they get divorced and what
does Diane do with three children? She becomes
a surrogate mother for a couple in like Florida
or something and still was able to do this after
failing two psychiatric tests due to psychosis
that she was diagnosed with. But sure, let's
let her carry another couple's child. I think
she did it because you'll come to find out she
loves the attention that she gets when she's
pregnant. And to be a surrogate, you get paid
a chunk of money for that. But I'm just like,
do fucking whatever. But now they're all living
in Cottage Grove, Oregon, and Diane worked for
the Postal Service running mail routes and obviously
was a shitty mother. Steve said Diane put everything
else before her children and often ridiculed
them and denied them of any attention or affection.
Like truly has no maternal instincts. It reminds
me of like Casey Anthony. You know what I mean?
Okay, and I did just look up Cottage Grove because
I needed to know immediately. It's two hours
south of you It's that it's like it's just south
of Eugene Okay, so fast forward a few years to
May 19th 1983 the night of the shooting so overview
is Diane and her three children get attacked
and shot and like fatally wounded The night of
the shooting Diane claims that around 10 30 p
.m. On a school night She was driving herself
and her three kids who were asleep I believe
the oldest was in the front seat and the two
younger were in the backseat her kids are like
eight and younger and they were driving home
from a friend's house when she Pulled over after
a stranger flagged her down off like on the side
of the road and She's taking the scenic route
home because she said that she and her kids liked
doing this on drives to like site C on the scenic
roads in Oregon. But it's nighttime. Thank you.
That is correct, ma 'am. OK, OK. Just exactly.
So when this comes up, like later in the investigation,
everyone's like, what the fuck are you talking
about? It's 1030 at night. Your kids are just
they're not even awake. No, what is there to
sightsee? I Said especially at night when you
can't see anything and the kids are asleep and
it's a school night. Totally makes sense Diane
But she says that the man who flagged her down
ordered her to hand over her car keys. Oh When
she pulled over She says she she pulled over
she turns the car off grabs the keys, gets out
of the vehicle, and is like, hey, what's the
problem? But okay. Remind me, what year is this?
1983. Okay. Okay. So Diane says the man who flagged
her down ordered her to hand over her keys and
she replied, you've got to be kidding. That's
how she responds to this. But our Diane is no
idiot, Kayla. She's like, oh, you want my car
keys? Go find them and pretends to throw them
in the nearby bushes. Which I guess she thought
would totally fool the guy. And as soon as he
turned his back, she'd hop back in the car, start
it up, drive home, easy peasy. I mean, it works
on my dog every time. Yeah, but that's a dog.
Also this person, this man that flagged her down
does not exist. So according to Diane, she pretends
to toss the keys, but then the man comes up to
the car and leans in, shoots all three of her
children with a small caliber pistol and shoots
Diane in the arm before running away. And then
Diane drives to the McKenzie Willamette Hospital
in Springfield, Oregon, which from what I read,
whatever area that she was driving in that night,
The hospital that she went to was only a few
miles away. So it shouldn't take very long to
get there. And it's the middle of the night,
it's not like there's traffic or anything. So
when she gets there, she's explaining what happens
and she describes the man who did this as having
shaggy brown hair and a stubble beard. And she's
like, that's not really a lot. I was just saying,
an organ that feels like every granola. Literally,
that's like copy and paste every man. It's like,
okay, thanks, I guess. Upon arrival at the hospital,
Danny, who was three years old, was paralyzed
from the waystone, but he survives. Christy,
who's eight years old, suffered a stroke from
blood loss. She survives. Cheryl, the middle
daughter, seven years old, was dead. Lucky Diane
only suffered a gunshot wound in her left forearm,
and she's right -handed. How convenient. Suspicious.
Dude, so suspish. Immediately, the hospital workers
are suspicious of Diane, and when investigators
arrive, they're obviously also suspicious as
well. Her general demeanor was way too calm for
someone who had just gone through such a traumatic
event. And everyone handles grief and trauma
differently. But like, 100 % your children were
just shot at close range in front of you. You
were shot. And you were shot, but you're like,
Oh, and just get ready for some interviews that
she does later. Feel like it's more obvious probably
to like detectives and stuff if like somebody's
trying to fake grief and trauma Like I get uncomfortable
like I do uncomfortable things like inappropriately
laugh at oh, yeah Whatever so like but that's
not she was just like Cool as a cucumber. I'd
be losing my shit. Like if someone shot mrs.
Norris in front of me, I'd be inconsolable Oh
I could I'd have to be inconsolable like or filled
with rage like there'd be some emotion like a
little it would be and again everyone reacts
differently but I expect some girl in the weeks
after the shooting Diane would tell different
variations of the events she'd say this man shot
her in the arm during a struggle to get her keys
and then he shot the kids and then she was able
to flee when she pretended to throw the keys
Then she'd say that he shot the kids first and
then her. The kids were asleep or they were awake,
yada, yada, yada. So investigators are already
questioning her story because it's just weird.
Like, why would a random man try to kill her
and her children just to steal her car? And it's
not like she had a nice car. Also, did she say
how she got away? She said when she pretended
to throw the keys into the bushes. It distracted
him enough, but then she said he came back up
to the car. Yeah Okay, I'm just making sure I'm
following The line keeps changing. Yeah, she
keeps like changing. I'm confused. She's got
to be confused She's an idiot is what she is
true So investigators are already questioning
her story because it's just weird like why would
a random guy try to kill her and her kids just
to steal her car. And as soon as the situation
gets a little sticky, he just dips and lets her
go to identify him to authorities. Like that
doesn't make any sense. It makes no sense. Not
an ounce of sense. And on top of that, when she
went to the hospital one day to visit her two
living children who were horribly injured, Diane
calls a man named Robert Knickerbocker, who she
used to work with. Knickerbocker. She used to
work with him in Arizona and they had been having
an affair. And obviously he's married. Cause
of course I do not condone this. I don't condone.
So she was having an affair with this man and
he didn't like kids. He did not want to have
kids. So, um, so she, you're fucking joking.
So a motive that was like floating around was
you're in love with this married man who doesn't
like children. Did you shoot your kids to try
to get this man's? But before we get to that,
like she calls this guy from the hospital, like
when she just to like, and I don't even think
it was like he was still in Arizona. She's in
Oregon. So it's like they're not actively having
an affair. They're not actively involved. But
two of your three kids are fighting for their
lives. One is dead. And you're like, hey, kids,
hold on real quick. Let me give my married boyfriend
a call. Then I'm not actually dating right now.
And then in my notes I wrote, I'm sure the cops
had this thought for a motive. Maybe she wanted
her kids out of the picture permanently to try
to win him over and leave his wife for her. A
bit extreme, no? Yeah. No, I mean, no. Totally
normal. What are you talking about? It's Diane.
It's our gal, Diane. She's super normal and chill.
On the forensic side, her version of events don't
add up at all. There's no blood spatter that
was found on the driver's side of the car, which
if she had been shot when she pretended to throw
the keys, there would have been blood somewhere
on that side of the car. If the driver's door
was closed at the time of the shooting, there
would have been blood on the outside of the car.
If it was open, there would have been some spatter.
On the interior of the door, but nope. There's
nothing Almost as if there wasn't a strange man
attacking them at all Hmm imagine that I mean,
okay and like if a man flags you down on a rural
road at night with your your three young children
in the car and if you're like nice enough to
pull over like I would never pull over because
I don't want to die but if I were to pull over
I'm keeping my car running and I'm cracking the
window like the tiniest bit. Yeah, I'm not getting
out. Hey, what's up? Everything okay? Not like,
yeah, get out like fully engaged. So it's like,
yeah, crack your window, ask what's going on.
If he seems like a creep, you can dip. Well,
that's why he's just on his feet. Yeah, that's
why I asked the time frame because I was like,
In the 80s, this would probably make more sense
today. Yeah. Like or even in the last like 20
years. But in the 80s, there was more sense of
community, but you're still not going to. No
one's going to pull over with their three children
for a strange man. Even then, wasn't this like
prime serial killer time? Yes. The 80s, it's
the fucking satanic panic. Like every serial
killer in the universe is in California and the
Pacific Northwest. Yeah, breathe the room. Okay,
now her lover in Arizona, Mr. Knickerbocker,
told police, so they like contact him because
she was in communication with him while her kids
are in the hospital. They contact him and he
told police, oh, when they originally had called
him and like explained like the situation, his
response was, I can't believe she did this. He
was just like, I can't believe she shot her kids.
He didn't even question it. Well that's suspicious.
Right. So good on the cops for contacting him.
But he told the police that Diane was crazy and
seemed adamant on him being hers only and would
go as far as to kill his wife in order to make
that happen. He said he was relieved when she
moved from Arizona to Oregon so that him and
his wife could reconcile their marriage. In fact...
oh this is already in my notes in fact when police
spoke to him in regards to the case and informed
him of the alleged attack nickerbocker replied
i can't believe she actually did that bruh lock
her ass up yeah also um christy diane's surviving
daughter is recovering from a stroke and every
time She couldn't speak for a long time. But
every time Diane entered Christie's hospital
room when she visited, Christie's heart rate
on the monitor would skyrocket. Obviously. And
only when Diane walked into the room. Nobody
else. Imagine your mother trying to kill you.
Literally. And then you can't speak. Yeah. She
knows that her mom is the one who did this. And
she's fucking terrified of her now. Yeah. And
Diane's coming in trying to be like, oh my gosh,
I love you, my baby, my baby. I'd bite her. She's
the fucking worst. Diane told the police that
her attacker shot them with a small caliber gun.
And I don't know anything about guns. But if
somebody ever attacked me at gunpoint and I survived
and the cops asked for details what type of gun
it was, I'd be like, I don't fucking know. It
was small. Oh, yeah. And it could kill me. And
I was scared. Yeah, like I own guns. I mean,
I don't. Logan does. And I don't know what any
of that means. He could probably tell you, maybe.
But I'd be like, it was small. The gun was small.
The gun was longer, tall. Yeah, I'd be like,
I don't know, small enough to fit in your pocket
or in the waist of your pants, in a purse, in
a bag, whatever. I wouldn't be using small caliber
pistol. That's very specific So anyways turns
out that Diane's ex -husband Steve Downs and
Her lover knickerbocker told the police that
Diane indeed owned a 22 caliber handgun But she
never disclosed this to the cops Investigators
never located the gun that shot her and her kids,
but they did find bullet cartridges in her home
that had markings that matched those of the murder
weapon. So like the empty shells or whatever
at the scene. The shell casings I think. Yeah.
They collected them and compared the markings
to the ones that they found. Yeah. Isn't that
kind of crazy that they have like a signature?
It's like almost. Yeah. Is it like every gun
is like that? Like the the barrel of the gun
when the bullets come out. It like makes a very
specific marking. Kind of crazy. Freaking ballistics.
That's crazy. So yeah, they found bullet cartridges
in her home that had markings that matched exactly
those of the murder weapon, but they didn't find
the weapon itself. But I mean, this is pretty
damning. And witnesses also came forward saying
they saw her driving extremely slowly. towards
the hospital that night like so slow it barely
registered a speed on the driver's speedometer
that was driving behind her so this bitch is
driving so slow presumably to let her kids bleed
to death before getting them medical help and
she says that she was driving like a maniac to
get her dear dear children to the hospital as
fast as she could She is driving like a maniac,
a sociopath who doesn't care about her children.
She's driving like a murderer who's trying to
like get her victims to die. That's crazy. And
she took the time before she started heading
to the hospital, she took the time to wrap her
arm in a towel or something in the car, the arm
that was shot by this attacker. So she she like
wrapped up her injury but didn't check on her
kids and then this is something so familiar like
in my soul I know I know what we're talking about
but it's never like it's not landing because
I it sounds so familiar but it is like you and
I'm not a mother I don't know because like morbid
podcast has definitely covered this case yeah
I mean I'm not a mother but wouldn't you go You
check on your kids before yourself, especially
with just an arm gunshot wound. I will say though.
On a plane they're like mask yourself before
masking others. So like I don't know. But her
in this situation though, her injuries are so
much less severe. Yeah. Because her children
are shot multiple times. Yeah, I'm just playing
devil's advocate or whatever the fuck people
say. I actually hate when people say that, so
I apologize. How dare you. We hate Diane in this
house. Yes. So let's not defend her. Okay. Four
days after the attack, she does a reenactment
for detectives that happened, of what happened
that night, sorry. Okay. They use a different
car, obviously, because hers is the crime scene.
The video of her acting out and narrating what
happened is absolutely bonkers. Like a detective
is pretending to be this shaggy haired individual
that flagged her down and she's like guiding
him like oh he came up to me around this like
around the door like this and blah blah and that's
when I threw the keys um but she it's so obvious
she fucking loves being the center of attention
and she does so many interviews throughout the
investigation that like make her look so clearly
guilty um in one of the interviews she did later
on she said something like i think maybe the
interviewer said like commented on like how lucky
she was to like not sustain as serious injuries
and was able to get her children to the hospital,
like before the media was really like, she's
a suspect. And she goes, oh, I wasn't lucky.
I'm not the lucky one. My kids were lucky. She
was like, I haven't been, she was like, I got
shot in my arm. They had to, it hit my bone.
The bullet hit my bone. I haven't been able to
tie my shoes for two months. What? Dead ass,
she said that. She said that they were lucky
or maybe that the daughter who? Did not make
it is lucky because she's doesn't have to deal
with she didn't have to worry about tying her
shoes She's dead bitch That's that's crazy. She
almost has like um, I haven't been able to tie
my shoes in two months. Oh Diane that sucks.
Your life is so hard psychopath I fucking hate
her. Yeah. Okay, back to the reenactment. In
the video, the detective is talking to the camera,
explaining what they're doing. And in the background,
Diane is getting into the car. And you can see
her, you can fully see her in the background,
like, looking in the rear view mirror and like,
printing her hair and like, making sure she looks
good. Yeah, for the cameras. yeah it looks she's
gotta look good for the cameras okay so they're
acting out the attack diane is narrating how
everything went down none of which makes any
fucking sense after watching this video and she
laughs multiple times throughout it like it's
all just so silly and it's like like it's like
an acting class it's like she's putting on a
show or something not like she's reenacting what
should be the most traumatizing moment of her
life then the kicker she gets back into the car
Like at the point where she says she distracted
the guy by pretending to throw the keys. She's
like, and then I get back into the car and she
laughs and goes, ah, I just hit my cast. This
is this is worse than and trails off. Worse than
what? That's literally in my notes. Worse than
what, Diane? Worse than when you shot yourself
in the arm? She fully was going to say that.
Like, it's so obvious. This hurts worse than...
Worse than what? Okay, now let me pull up the
clip. So I'll walk up in front of the car and
Mrs. Downs will open her car door and we'll go
from there. What's your car? Nope, it was further.
He didn't say anything. I just kept waiting.
Okay, we got this far. Okay. Okay pause, okay,
just yeah, but yeah, so she was like saying hit
this child this child this child She did say
you've got to be kidding. Yeah you've got to
be kidding i was like oh my i hate her she's
such a stupid bitch yeah but then she's like
so casually in the video like when you watch
it later she's literally just pointing she's
like she shot they shot him and then or whatever
christy first and then sheryl and then danny
or whatever order yeah just like casually like
And it's like, well, what were you doing, Diane?
Because she's just standing off towards the back
seat of the vehicle outside. And she said that
the attacker leaned into the car to shoot them.
So it's like, oh, you just stood there? Yeah,
you didn't tackle him? And let him shoot all
three of your children multiple times? You could
have tried to stop. OK, continue. He swings halfway
back. He looks at me, but he's not all the way
around. I want you to look. Like that, okay?
Your attention goes, you swing around at the
same time. What are you indicating there? I'm
throwing the keys, okay? I'm throwing the keys.
Simulating. Yes, but I didn't let go of them.
He thinks I threw them, but I did not throw them,
okay? He swings around at the same time. He's
watching the keys and he swings around and shoots.
What else would she be referring to? Literally.
What? I fucking hate her. My cast! And when she's
in the video, you can't see it at first, and
she's not narrating, pretending to throw the
keys, so he's like, okay, what are you indicating
when you're doing that motion? And she's like,
I'm throwing the keys, okay? And then she flashes
the keys to the camera like, okay, see the keys?
I'm gonna pretend. And he thinks that I threw
them. She sounds way too happy for someone that
has lost a child, got shot. Like, she sounds
stoked. One of her children is paralyzed. The
other is recovering from a stroke from blood
loss. Nine months later, on February 28th, 1984,
Diane Downs is arrested and charged with one
count of murder, two counts of attempted murder,
and criminal assault. The trial begins, and surprise!
Diane is pregnant. With whose baby? Oh wait,
so she got, was she in jail? Did she sleep with
a guard? No, no, no. This, she got pregnant,
so okay, between the timeline of her children
being shot, murdered, gravely injured, and her
getting arrested, so she wasn't, she didn't get
arrested until February 28th. The original shooting
happened on May 19th. Oh wow. Okay. Because they
didn't have I guess they didn't have enough to
go on to arrest her or they were still investigating
and blah blah blah, like testing the car and
all that shit. So between the shooting and her
getting arrested, she calculatedly got pregnant.
She wanted to get pregnant to, in an interview
she says something like, you can never replace,
I can never replace Cheryl. my daughter Cheryl
who died but I can bring another life into the
world and she talks about she was like I you
know children are supposed like I I love my children
because they um they love me and they give me
attention and affection and they look to me for
everything something like that I'm fully paraphrasing
I don't know But it's like, no, you don't have
kids so that kids can give you. Exactly. Satisfaction
and attention and acknowledgement and fucking
weird affection. You have kids so that you can.
You are the attentive one. Yeah. You are the
one giving the affection. You're the one raising
them. You're the one who's supposed to love them
with everything. Yeah. But she was like and she.
Loved being pregnant because she loved the attention.
So like it was going around in the media that
she was looking really sus and So she was like,
I'm gonna get pregnant and people will feel bad
for a pregnant woman. What a pregnant lady She
could never do that to anybody. Like she loves
being pregnant. Um, she gets pregnant and we'll
get to this later, but the dude was a reporter
She gets pregnant with the reporter Mm -hmm.
Okay, I'm gonna let I'm gonna let you go and
So she loves being pregnant and she orchestrated
this in order to sway the public's Sympathy and
eventually when she gets arrested the jury's
sympathy and Of course Diane takes a stand during
her trial which fucking of course she does because
she loves attention and She's bound to make herself
look even more guilty, so it doesn't make sense
that her attorneys let her do this. And that's
exactly what she does. She had mentioned at some
point before the trial that the song that was
playing on the radio in the car... during the
shooting was Hungry Like the Wolf by Duran Duran.
And during the trial, the prosecution played
the song while Diane was on the stand, and it
took her no time to start tapping her foot and
bobbing her head along to the beat and mouthing
the lyrics on the stand. Of course. Now, call
me crazy, but if that was me and my kids had
been shot in front of me while that song was
playing, that song would forever be a trigger
to me. I would not find joy in hearing that song.
Like there are songs that like remind me of like
grade school that I'm like, ah, gross. Oh my
God. Yeah. You know, it brings you back to like
a weird time where like, you're just like, no.
The trauma a song can induce. Yeah. And she's
just like bopping along. Do do do. She's like,
come on, bitch. If you're trying to look innocent.
Do better. You're doing a terrible job. Be a
better criminal. If you're going to do it, lean
in. Oh, and she says in interviews too, she was
like, if I wanted to kill my children, I would
have done a better job at it. Okay, OJ. I literally,
I literally was like, okay, OJ, if I did it.
Like, shut the fuck up. God. Okay, so the prosecution
star witness was Diane's surviving daughter,
eight -year -old Cheryl. the one who had the
stroke. And she had been recovering and working
with a speech therapist because she wasn't able
to speak for a long time. And they wanted to
obviously be able to get her to regain her speech
just for life, but also for her to testify. But
before the trial, while she was still in the
hospital and working with this therapist, the
therapist asked if she saw who shot her and her
siblings and she nodded yes, but didn't want
to reveal who it was. So the therapist suggested,
okay, how about we, you write it down on a piece
of paper and we'll rip it up and throw it away.
We'll throw it into the fireplace and burn it.
And we'll keep doing this until you're ready.
Which is like - Okay, that's interesting. It's
interesting, but I like it. Cause it's like -
Yeah. Like, because he doesn't touch the therapist.
I don't remember if it was a male or female,
but the therapist doesn't touch the paper that
Cheryl wrote, whoever the shooting was on. It
was just hers. And then she would write it. She'd
rip it up. She'd toss it into the fire or whatever.
That's such an interesting tactic. I'd be so
curious like the process, but I'm going to assume
it builds courage by writing it down over and
over again. That's very cool. So they did this
every day until Cheryl was ready to show them
what she had been writing. the whole time and
it said my mom. That's so heartbreaking though.
My mom shot us yeah. I would have used her first
name I would have been like Diane not my mom
anymore. True. Don't know her. So that's exactly
what she said on the stand like truly the bravest
little girl on the planet like holy shit. Meanwhile,
Diane is sitting there showing no emotion and
just staring daggers at Cheryl. Like, don't you
say it. Don't you say it. Obviously, the jury
found her guilty on all charges and the judge
sentenced her to life plus 50 years. Bye, bitch.
But this isn't the end of the story, though.
Of course not. Diane's surviving children, Christie
and Danny, recovered enough to be released from
the hospital and they were adopted. It makes
me want to cry. They were adopted by the lead
prosecutor of the trial. Oh Him and his wife
adopted them that feels also so I like did they
say why like what? Inspired them to adopt the
two like out of all the children's I'm sure it's
not the first time I think because like like
Cheryl oh, I think I mixed up the names Christie
is the one that was on the stand for one if I
mess it up I'm sorry people are two listeners
Forgive me. We're not perfect. We're not perfect.
I think he was like because Christy was the prosecution's
witness So he was working very closely with her
and Danny to like because they I don't know what
Danny Remembered he was only three. Okay at the
time of the shooting. So it's like he's not Necessarily
going to have the same like retention of that,
right? That it the older daughter would and she
happened to be awake or had woken up like as
the shootings were taking place. Right. So you
just felt really like connected to the kids and
did not want them to get split up and didn't
want them to like go to foster care and was just
like no these are my children now. Oh. Just fucking
adorable. Now if you remember Stupid Diane was
stupid pregnant during the trial. So she's hella
pregnant in prison, is induced and gives birth
to a baby girl in June 1984 who was adopted by
a wonderful couple in, I believe in Bend, Oregon.
And we'll circle back to this child in a bit
because our girl Diane, she's not done with her
insanity yet. What could she possibly get up
to now? She's in prison. Honestly, a lot. They
get up to a lot in prison, actually. It should
be talked about. They really they get up to a
lot. They have phones. Well, back then, obviously
they don't. You know what I mean? I know. So,
um, she escapes from the Oregon Women's Correctional
Facility in Salem, Oregon. How does she escape?
Fucking obviously she does. One day she scales
the razor wire fence, hops down and runs off.
Apparently, there's like mixed versions of this,
but one of her fellow inmates said that her husband
lived close by and Diane can go there. Oh, wait,
the inmate's husband. Yes, the inmate is like,
yo, girlfriend, my husband lives super close.
If you make your escape, you can go to his place.
and then I'll make my escape and we'll rendezvous
at my husband's house. Clearly she doesn't know
that Diane is a husband stealer. Literally. So
everybody's freaking out because she fucking
escapes, but she's found 10 days later and she
exits the dude's place wearing a t -shirt and
his boxers. The husband? The husband's boxers.
The other inmate never escaped. Yeah, her husband
couldn't care less. Right, and let's be real,
she was definitely bumping uglies with that man's.
Probably trying to get pregnant again. That was
probably, like, she probably planned the escape,
like, around her cycle. to get pregnant she was
tracking it she said okay if i get out now she
literally says that in an in an interview that
she didn't know she knew yes she said not about
this specifically but when she got pregnant before
she got arrested she said that reporter i knew
yeah to the reporter she said i know my cycle
so well that i knew exactly if i slept With somebody
around this time I would get pregnant and she
was like it's so easy to get pregnant impossible
actually She was like it's just so easy for women
to get pregnant and I was like I can't even imagine
all of the women who like have wanted to have
children hearing that and like haven't They couldn't.
And the most undeserving woman can. Literally.
Shut your mouth. These are the people who are
able to conceive so easily are the ones that
are like the scum of the earth. It pisses me
off, actually. That's what I said at the top
of this episode. This fucking bitch, dude. Piss.
But she's back in custody and the Salem prison
is very low security. I think mainly for the
women. And from what I read, the women's prison
building was outside of the walls of the men's
prison and much smaller. And go figure, they
paid more attention to the men than the women.
I find this offensive because one was smarter.
I said, even incarcerated, terrible men get more
attention than women. Well, and like, they think
that they're less likely to escape, so they don't
need to pay, like, they need to pay more attention.
Or they're more likely to escape. Hello? Tulip
has been jumping the fence. Tulips might go,
everyone. Jumping the fence for days now. Basil
can't figure it out. Boys are not that much smarter.
That's insane. So they're like, OK, men are going
to escape. So we got to watch them when hands
down, women work harder than the FBI. And they're
just like, yeah, that's classic. But they don't
want to keep Diane in the Salem prison because
she'll def try to escape again So they transfer
her to a prison in New Jersey And the reason
they did this because I guess like back in the
day Like trade prisoners they're like Reaching
out to prisons like yo, can you can you take
in Diane Downs and they're like Sure, but only
if you take these two. Okay prisoners It was
the eighties, I don't know they were wild and
in the eighties So yeah, she's sent to prison
in New Jersey later in the early 90s She was
transferred to Washington Corrections Center
for women and then to Central California Women's
Facility in 1993, which is where she resides
currently. Like today? She's still alive. She
just had a parole hearing last year and I watched
the video today because it was like a Zoom video
of her like pleading her case. She still says
she's innocent and she's just this old grandma
bitch. Just like, but like the same personality
from like every interview that she originally
did in the eighties. With no remorse? Nope. She's
like, I didn't do it. If I did, I would have
done a good job. Such an idiot. But what she
says is she said in the, I think in the latest
parole hearing, she said, I, I was not the person
who shot my children, but I did, um, like I'm
not guilty of that. Crime, but I am guilty of
putting my kids in danger that night and that
she'll never be able to forgive shut up Diane
I know I'm like I fucking hate you but back to
the daughter that she had when she was pregnant
in prison Yeah, and this was gonna be the end
of the case like right before this and then you
found more Yes, I felt this is why I told you
earlier. I was like I couldn't stop because I
had I forgot about this part of this case until
I was listening to another podcast called Happy
Face. The first season of that podcast, it's
the daughter of the Happy Face killer. It's on
my list to cover. She goes through and talks
about her experience being the child of a serial
killer. Her name is Melissa Moore. Anyway, she
did a separate season talking to the daughter
Diane had in prison. And so she gave birth to
this baby girl in 1984 and Diane named her Amy.
But the baby was adopted by a couple in Bend,
Oregon and named her Rebecca Babcock. She goes
by Becky. And in the Happy Face podcast, Melissa
Moore talks to Becky about her life, how she
came to find out who her birth mother was, how
it affected her, et cetera, et cetera. So in
Becky's early adolescence, she had asked her
adopted mother about her birth parents and her
mom originally said something along the lines
of like, you're too young, we'll tell you when
you're older. And then Becky got a little bit
older and she kept asking and they eventually
were like, listen, your bio mom did terrible
things and you don't need to know anything about
her and we're not going to tell you anything.
But Becky is a sneaky little gal. Because I feel
like that's not fair to be like, You don't get
to know Especially after saying we'll tell you
when you're older and they're like just kidding.
We're not telling you anything ever JK So one
day when she was 11 years old, she tricked her
babysitter Into revealing who her bio mom was.
She said something like which I don't know why
the babysitter knows Who her biological mother
is that's actually a good point, you know Unless
there was like rumors spreading and like someone's
mom told someone's mom this and now they know
Parents never the parents never disclosed it
to anybody her adopted parents never disclosed
like they knew who Diane was but like they were
broadcasted were they like hey My child ever
show that's what I was thinking too. Yeah, like,
you know if She asks whatever Maybe you don't
know anything She doesn't know anything. She
doesn't need to know anything, but whatever.
So Becky said something to the babysitter along
the lines of like, oh, I know about my bio mom.
Now my parents told me and the babysitter was
like, oh, so you know about Diane Downs. And
now Becky has a name. So she goes to the library
and she looks up Diane Downs. She reads the book
that Ann Rule wrote about Diane. in this whole
case. Ann Rohl is the girl who worked with Ted
Bundy at the Suicide Prevention Hotline Center.
Oh, okay. Because I was like, should I know this
name? Yes, you should. After Ted Bundy got arrested,
she was like in disbelief. And then she was like,
I pivoted her career into becoming a true crime
novelist. So Diane goes to the library, she reads
this book and learns all about all of the fuck
shit that Diane pulled. And she's 11 years old.
That's crazy. 11 years old. And after discovering
this, like she'd wanted to know so badly her
bio mom was. And then when she found out, she
wished she hadn't known. Yeah, of course. Right.
Like it really messed her up for a while. She
got into drugs and alcohol very early in her
life. She got pregnant twice as a teenager. I'm
confused on whether or not she kept the first
baby, but the second baby that she got pregnant
with was a boy and she gave it up for adoption.
And after this... she decided to reach out to
Diane in prison, solely because she didn't have
anyone to relate to and talk to about giving
your baby away up for adoption. So for some reason,
she was like, I feel like I want to talk to Diane
and get her take. Obviously, Diane responds like
a lunatic. Shocker, right? I think the first
couple of letters were fairly normal. But she
would only address Becky as Amy, because that's
what she originally named her when she gave birth
to her. Don't piss me off. Yeah, which Becky
really did not enjoy. She was like, I do not
identify with this Amy person. But then Diane
takes a turn and starts going on this conspiracy
theory spiral saying that the man who shot her
and her kids was never caught. So they know that
Amy is still out there and might come after her.
But don't worry, Diane has had people following
quote unquote Amy to keep her safe from the shooter
should he come back. And then, and then Diane
pivots completely and claims that Becky is not
her daughter. She's not, you're not my daughter.
My Amy is out there somewhere and it's not you.
And she said that Becky was just trying to con
her for her fortune. Diane you're in prison You
have no fortune. She wasn't she was not a well
-off No, and she they were her and her kids were
homeless for a while Like there's no fucking
fortune But um in the podcast the happy face
podcast They get Diane's brother James, which
is Becky's biological uncle to meet with her
and Becky's like Intention for this whole thing
is to try to figure out who her biological dad
is but James didn't know and Turns out he only
met with Becky because he wanted to convince
her that Diane is innocent You're telling me
that he believes his sister look go on. I I love
my sister, however Which she would never commit
a crime but If it was so obvious that she committed
it... And it's not even like it's a crime that's
like, like she hurt her children. It'd be different
if she murdered a man who did something terrible
to her. I'll cover her till the end of days.
But if she harmed her children and it was obvious,
I'm sorry. Yeah, no. No. You have to listen to
this podcast series. It's crazy. Like listening
to James's like... interactions that they recorded.
I'm like, he's just, he so delusionally believes
that Diane is innocent. So that meeting kind
of just ends with Becky being like, okay, it's
cute that you think Diane's innocent. I have
no interest in joining your free Diane campaign
that you're trying to enlist me in. Have a nice
life. To bring everything to a close, on the
Hoppy, on the Hoppy, the Happy Face podcast,
they enlist a DNA expert. to prove that Becky
is indeed Diane Downes' daughter and to hopefully
try to find her biological father. And so they
were able to conclude that Diane is in fact Becky's
biological mother because James had agreed to
submit his DNA for this purpose. And Becky and
James were a perfect match for a maternal uncle
-niece relationship. It's the only good thing
that Diana has done. Literally. So she is indeed
Diane's daughter, and they're trying to find
her biological father, which they do. Yay! The
entire season when I was listening to this, I
was like, oh my god, do they find out? I need
to know who she fucking slept with. I need to
know who she enlisted to impregnate her. Wait,
it was the reporter, correct? Yes. There are
a lot a there are a lot of like speculation some
people said that she just hooked up with a random
person on one of her mail routes people like
she just one of the. houses that she delivered
mail to, she seduced that man. And then there
was like, another theory was like, she hooked
up with like an old fling, or she just picked
up some random stranger out at a bar or something.
Is that Kane in the background? I was wondering
if you could hear that. I'm so sorry. There's
nothing outside. By the way, there's nothing
for him to bark at. I can see out front. Nothing.
and they're on top of like who it was like all
the rumors some people like it was said that
diane told the man that she was pregnant with
his kid some said she never told the man so the
man doesn't even know yada yada yada but unfortunately
when she contacted the her biological father
he knew who she was because she had been in the
media for like 10 years at this point and talking
about her life and the realization of... Oh,
and when she was 18, when Becky was 18, she was
able to order her original birth certificate.
And on the birth certificate, it lists Diane
as her biological mother, but the space where
the father would be was empty. Yeah, she had
been in the media. She had like been on Oprah
and like Dr. Oz and she did a she participated
in a 2020 special about Diane's case and then
her involvement after the fact and dealing with
it. So she's been out there and she was like,
well, maybe my if my dad knew who I was. He could
easily have come and found me if he wanted to.
Like, I was very public. But she was like, he
doesn't know, because some people say that Diane
told the father. Some people say that she never
told him. And then she was like, well, maybe
he's not alive. So when they figured out who
it was, he was a reporter. Yeah, he knew who
she was because she had been in the media over
the years talking about her life. But he didn't
want to have any further contact going forward.
I know. Bummer. But also, he would have been
a bad reporter if he didn't know, like, that
he had adopted, like, truly do the math. And
prior to all of this, Becky had reached out to
Diane's surviving children who were adopted by
the prosecutors. Oh, yeah. And neither of them
wanted to have a relationship with her either.
Oh, I feel like that's such a bummer. I know,
right? Because, like, you don't ask to be born
into this, like, psychopath. OK, so after...
In the very last episode of this season of that
podcast, they got a hold of, I think they spoke
to Diane's defense attorney and he gave them
this letter that she had written him from prison
after she was convicted. It's the most absurd
thing ever. Straight from the podcast because
it's very long and it's read by a voice actor.
The letter does not in fact line up with the
version of the story she tells today. Though
it's impossible to know which version of the
events is true, we present the letter as an interesting
artifact in the case. November 7, 1984, Salem,
Oregon. Dear Jim, I am not really sure how to
start this letter, but I guess the best way to
make an apology is to say I'm sorry. You're probably
wondering what this is all about. And when you
are through reading, you'll probably drop this
letter and say, damn you Diane, like you have
so many times before. Your blood pressure will
go up and I'm sorry about that too. I'm sorry
about a lot of things, really. I only hope you
will forgive me for not being totally honest
with you. It's just that it's so hard for me
to put myself in someone else's hands. I find
it hard to fully trust anyone not to hurt me.
I needed to control myself and my situation.
And I've been that way for a few years. It has
been a hard lesson to learn and I can't guarantee
that I'll be cured forever. But I know now that
I should have placed this whole problem in your
hands and let you deal with it. But I was afraid,
silly maybe, but I was afraid you would lose
respect for me. And well, let me explain. Hopefully
by the time you finish reading this you'll have
an understanding of me and I'll have your forgiveness.
I had no right to hire you as my attorney and
then expect you to represent me without telling
you everything I could. I really am grateful
for your representation and support these past
17 months and because of that I cannot be comfortable
with myself unless I come clean with you. Again,
I am sorry for thinking I had to handle things
myself. I should have let go for once in my life
and let someone else take over for a while. Please
understand and forgive. This letter may get lengthy,
but please bear with me. I have a lot of conscience
to relieve. Perhaps it's best to start with the
night of the shooting. I wasn't totally honest
because I was afraid of what else could happen
to me at the hands of the police. I had marijuana
in my car when I stopped on Old Mohawk, and I
was afraid if I told the whole truth, I would
lose my job at the post office because of the
drug charge, and I couldn't afford that. So I
told as much of the truth as I could without
saying the things that would make me look like
a creep. I had also hoped that by eliminating
certain facts, that the police would not find
out that I had rather loose morals. I did not
want people that I respected to think poorly
of me. So when I got to the hospital, I couldn't
tell the police I opened the trunk because they
would want to know what I removed. And it was
pot. But while I had the trunk open, I didn't
see him remove the black case. Yes, the black
case with Steve's gun in it. I'm sorry I lied,
but I couldn't explain the presence of the gun
without telling you about the pot. So while it
is very possible that an officer can make one
mistake in an effort to trap a criminal, I don't
think it happened this time. It just all seems
so harmless in the beginning, Jim. Dickens and
I were coming back from Heathers, and when we
turned around the south side of Sunderman Road,
a guy started playing catch up with me. I was
driving slower than most people do, so he passed
me. Then he pulled in front of me and slowed
down, so I passed him. It was a game, just a
flirt. We pulled off Markala onto Old Mohawk.
Why? Just because the kids were asleep. He was
a man, and I wasn't really tired yet. I like
men, and I love to flirt. Maybe some would say
it's because she's just a tramp. Anyway, I pulled
over on Old Mohawk, and he stopped behind me.
When I get out of the car, I check the kids and
they were all asleep. I did take the keys off
of the ignition and had them hung on my finger.
We talked for a couple of minutes and I looked
at the kids and they were still asleep. He asked
if I had any smoke and even though he wasn't
exactly my kind of guy, I figured it would be
better to placate him rather than offend him.
So I opened the trunk and removed the bag. I
had to dig under a couple of things to get it
and I did not see him remove anything from the
trunk. When I straightened up and closed the
trunk, I saw what he had in his hand. I don't
recall our conversation verbatim, but we discussed
the reason he had taken the gun and at that time
he had removed it from the case. He started acting
a little strange and that's when I started to
get scared, which I rarely do. He made sexual
advances, and I handed him the pot and tried
to get his mind on another subject. Honestly,
Jim, all I did was try to discourage his advances,
and he flipped. He tossed the black case and
the pot on the hood of his car and grabbed my
left arm. It made me mad and scared at the time,
so I pulled my arm free and said no. That was
when he went to open the door of my car. I moved
toward him, but looked in the little wing window
as he shot my Christy. She really was asleep,
Jim. But she woke up and raised herself before
he shot her again. I really don't know who he
shot next, and I don't see why it matters. I
don't know if he got in the car or not. All I
do know is I saw my daughter, my Christy, bleeding.
I just stood there, paralyzed. Chris and I are
empathic, and I couldn't separate myself from
her pain and terror. It was almost as if I was
a part of her. Now, you'll probably sit back
and say, yup, Diane's a real crazy. But if you
do, it's only because you've never loved anyone
or up your life as much as I did with my kids.
It's hard for me to explain how much I love my
kids and need them. Love seems like such an inadequate
word. Perhaps if you ever want to talk to me
again, I can try to explain it. Anyways, when
he swung back toward me, I was startled that
the guy hit my right hand and the keys did jingle,
but he didn't ask for the car. He didn't say
anything because I hit him and I guess he was
too mad for words. I'm sorry I can't say why
he didn't say anything. This letter is not for
speculation, but I can say that he looks angry.
He grabbed my left arm again and I tried to break
free. Just then I heard the gunfire two times
and my arm fell to my side. It may sound strange,
Jim, but in that moment I didn't feel fear or
hysteria anymore. I was angry and I guess motivated
would be a good word for how I felt. He was looking
at the gun and I pushed him. I jumped in and
inserted the keys and left. I have no idea if
he fell or what. I wasn't looking at him. I remember
very little of the trip to the hospital. I recall
trying to help Chrissy and hearing Danny cry
and telling Sherry to wake up. I remember blood
and odors in a white fence. I recall opening
the window, but the rest is black. I'm sorry,
I don't recall much more. Or maybe I'm glad I
don't recall much more. At any rate, my memory
is gone. At the hospital, I can't say I was very
reactive, but perhaps I looked cool, calm, and
collected to everyone. Know me. My kids needed
help in a way that I could not help, so I got
them to the doctor. but it's hard for me to just
turn my life over to someone else and let go.
So I used all my strength to hold together so
I would be ready when they needed me to help.
I didn't want to become a basket case that the
doctor would have to knock out because I had
to be ready and able to support my kids emotionally.
Then of course there was the police force. They
needed answers and I did tell them what I could.
I couldn't tell them about my loose morals, which
put us in a dangerous situation because I didn't
want my parents and the hospital staff and the
police to think I was a tramp. And I couldn't
tell them about the pot and therefore I couldn't
tell them about the gun. But I told them where
to look and I know I sound very confused and
to be truthful. I was a mess. It didn't hit me.
and that when they found him, they would find
out about the first and the pot and the gun.
I just knew that I could not tell them. As time
passed, and not very much of it at that, the
police and everyone else found out about my attraction
to men. But then it was impossible for me to
go back and retract my half -truth. And as far
as I was concerned, and still am, it doesn't
really matter why I stopped. So I didn't tell
them the rest. Then everyone almost was saying
that I was the one who shot my kids and they
said it was Steve's gun that was used and therefore
that proved I was guilty. Well, by that time
it wouldn't have mattered because if I wanted
to risk my job by telling about the pot and explaining
what happened because they would have used that
gun against me. I was afraid, Jim, afraid of
what people would think of me. Ironic, isn't
it? Okay, pause. She's so worried about getting
Losing her job. Yeah losing her job over pot
when her kids have been She's not what once mentioned
her concern over her children She's worried that
she'll be perceived as a tramp that she'll lose
her job. What I'm like, yo If my kids are like
gravely in danger and like bleeding to death
have been shot multiple times the last thing
on my mind is Losing my job or that people perceive
me as a tramp. Yeah, that's the only thing on
my mind is my kids The safety of my children
getting my kids to the hospital That's crazy
and remember she like wrapped her injury around
in a towel and drove five miles an hour To the
hospital that was two miles away. That's crazy.
Okay continue I want anyone to know I had loose
morals and now they think I'm a murderess. And
it's all because they wouldn't own up to my real
faults. Well, then I retained you to help my
daughter and ended up needing you myself. But
by the time I needed you, I respected you and
looked up to you. I didn't want you to think
of me as a liar or weakling. So what did I do
to cover the lies? Lie some more. But I can't
stand it anymore. You can only keep it up for
so long before it becomes like in your throat
I've gotten to the place that I can't even look
at myself anymore you proved yourself not only
a good attorney but a friend and I can't that
I Never confess the lies then I have used you
and I can't live with that in my conscience forever
So here I am Asking you to forgive me for being
a liar and a tramp. I am ashamed of myself And
I don't deserve it, but I truly hope you can
forgive me and put everything else behind. I
know I've many things and I've had all kinds
of explanations for all the kinds of things.
And I'm sorry. I wish I had never omitted part
of the truth. I wish. Well, it's all behind me
now. I'm sorry. Doesn't seem like enough, but
I am sorry. Respectfully, Diane. Is that not
the most unhinged? She's a narcissist. Yeah.
Oh, she was diagnosed as a, like, clinical narcissist
and, like, she got diagnosed with, like, psychotic
something or other. We're not psychiatrists.
We don't... You know, I don't know all the rules.
What I do know, though, is woman ain't sorry.
And Jim, I hope he didn't accept her apology.
I hope he wrote her back and said, no, thank
you. I hope you never contacted her again. What
a lunatic. Isn't that fucking crazy? Insane behavior.
Oh, she's the worst. Well, hell. Yep. So that's
the case of Diane Downs. Fucking monster. Okay.
She's still alive. She's like 70 now and still
trying to appeal like every opportunity she has.
All right, so that's Diane. Keep it chaotic.
Keep it creepy. Until next time. Bye.