WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.180 Before we start, this is the oldest unsolved 00:00:03.180 --> 00:00:07.599 murder in Los Angeles history. 79 years, no arrest, 00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:10.460 no conviction. And the person who did it was 00:00:10.460 --> 00:00:13.900 never even charged. Because whoever did it knew 00:00:13.900 --> 00:00:16.960 exactly what they were doing. That's a theory, 00:00:17.239 --> 00:00:22.000 Simone, not a fact. Cut a woman in half at the 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:25.399 waist. Drain her of blood. Leave nothing behind. 00:00:25.940 --> 00:00:28.600 That's not a theory about the killer. That's 00:00:28.600 --> 00:00:45.359 a description of him. There it is. It wasn't. 00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:49.500 It was Elizabeth Short, 22 years old, cut cleanly 00:00:49.500 --> 00:00:52.520 in half at the waist. Her body had been completely 00:00:52.520 --> 00:00:54.939 drained of blood and scrubbed clean before it 00:00:54.939 --> 00:00:59.579 was left there. Which tells us the murder didn't 00:00:59.579 --> 00:01:02.119 happen where she was found. She was killed somewhere 00:01:02.119 --> 00:01:06.359 else, then posed. Posed is underselling it. Her 00:01:06.359 --> 00:01:08.540 face had been cut from the corners of her mouth 00:01:08.540 --> 00:01:11.400 toward her ears. What investigators called a 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:14.780 Glasgow grin. That's not just violence, Eli. 00:01:15.319 --> 00:01:18.040 That's a signature. Or it's mutilation designed 00:01:18.040 --> 00:01:21.079 to prevent identification and delay the investigation. 00:01:21.480 --> 00:01:24.219 Brutal, yes. Doesn't require a psychological 00:01:24.219 --> 00:01:27.680 profile to explain. The precision of the cut 00:01:27.680 --> 00:01:30.760 at the waist is the part that gets me. Detectives 00:01:30.760 --> 00:01:34.480 at the time said it looked almost surgical. Which 00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:37.599 is exactly why the LAPD served a warrant on the 00:01:37.599 --> 00:01:40.239 USC medical school and started pulling records 00:01:40.239 --> 00:01:43.120 on anyone with anatomical training. It's a real 00:01:43.120 --> 00:01:46.719 lead. It's just never closed the case. Before 00:01:46.719 --> 00:01:49.299 we go further into the investigation, I want 00:01:49.299 --> 00:01:52.439 to say who she actually was, because the case 00:01:52.439 --> 00:01:55.689 has buried her under her own nickname. Elizabeth 00:01:55.689 --> 00:01:59.510 Short, born in Boston 1924, the third of five 00:01:59.510 --> 00:02:01.950 daughters. Her father lost the family's savings 00:02:01.950 --> 00:02:05.090 in the 1929 crash, and the following year his 00:02:05.090 --> 00:02:07.530 car was found abandoned on a bridge. Everyone 00:02:07.530 --> 00:02:10.270 assumed he'd jumped. He hadn't. He turned up 00:02:10.270 --> 00:02:12.750 alive years later, living under a new name in 00:02:12.750 --> 00:02:14.909 California, which is part of why she eventually 00:02:14.909 --> 00:02:17.370 moved out west herself, to try to reconnect with 00:02:17.370 --> 00:02:20.280 him. The Black Dahlia isn't even a name she chose 00:02:20.280 --> 00:02:22.580 or was known by. Her friends called her Betty. 00:02:22.780 --> 00:02:25.139 The nickname was invented by newspapers after 00:02:25.139 --> 00:02:27.580 she was already dead. Some accounts say it came 00:02:27.580 --> 00:02:29.960 from her dark clothes, others from a film that 00:02:29.960 --> 00:02:32.400 had just come out called The Blue Dahlia. One 00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:35.180 paper called it The Werewolf Murder First. And 00:02:35.180 --> 00:02:37.479 the press didn't just name her after death, they 00:02:37.479 --> 00:02:40.039 invented her. In the same weeks, she was reported 00:02:40.039 --> 00:02:43.340 as an aspiring actress, a sex worker, promiscuous, 00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:46.099 a lesbian, and a prude, sometimes in the same 00:02:46.099 --> 00:02:49.620 paper. no actual film or stage credits. She worked 00:02:49.620 --> 00:02:52.300 as a waitress. The aspiring actress label is 00:02:52.300 --> 00:02:54.699 mostly myth, too, just a more flattering one 00:02:54.699 --> 00:02:57.060 than the others. Which is the real story underneath 00:02:57.060 --> 00:02:59.879 all of this, honestly. A 22 -year -old nobody 00:02:59.879 --> 00:03:02.659 agreed on anything about being turned into whatever 00:03:02.659 --> 00:03:05.699 story sold papers that week, and it's still happening 00:03:05.699 --> 00:03:08.639 79 years later every time someone tells this 00:03:08.639 --> 00:03:11.379 case. There's a specific detail in her biography 00:03:11.379 --> 00:03:13.599 worth sitting with because it's the reason we 00:03:13.599 --> 00:03:16.919 even have a face to put with this story. In 1943, 00:03:17.419 --> 00:03:19.780 four years before she died, Short was arrested 00:03:19.780 --> 00:03:22.439 in Santa Barbara for underage drinking at a bar 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:25.500 in what's still called El Paseo today. That arrest 00:03:25.500 --> 00:03:28.139 is the entire reason this case was solvable in 00:03:28.139 --> 00:03:30.759 the most basic sense. Her fingerprints from that 00:03:30.759 --> 00:03:33.560 booking, plus a job application she'd filed at 00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:36.620 Camp Cook near Lompoc that same year, are literally 00:03:36.620 --> 00:03:40.560 what let the FBI identify her body in 1947. Without 00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:42.960 a teenager getting arrested for underage drinking 00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:45.360 four years earlier, they may not have identified 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:48.240 her at all. And the mugshot from that same arrest, 00:03:48.599 --> 00:03:52.419 dark, curly hair, that specific expression, is 00:03:52.419 --> 00:03:55.099 the actual photograph the press ran everywhere. 00:03:55.699 --> 00:03:58.099 That's the face everyone pictures when they hear 00:03:58.099 --> 00:04:01.120 Black Dahlia. It's not a photo from her murder 00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:03.960 investigation. It's a booking photo from a bar 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:07.039 in Santa Barbara, four years before anyone knew 00:04:07.039 --> 00:04:09.639 her name would matter. The bungalow she was living 00:04:09.639 --> 00:04:12.300 in at the time is reportedly still standing on 00:04:12.300 --> 00:04:14.979 West Montecito Street, tucked behind a wall next 00:04:14.979 --> 00:04:17.279 to a convenience store now. Which is sort of 00:04:17.279 --> 00:04:20.720 the whole case in one image, honestly. A regular 00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:23.199 building, still standing on a regular street, 00:04:23.519 --> 00:04:26.519 and almost nobody who walks past it has any idea 00:04:26.519 --> 00:04:28.740 what happened to the girl who once lived there. 00:04:29.379 --> 00:04:32.699 I've actually sat in that bar, Eli. El Paseo's 00:04:32.699 --> 00:04:35.600 mine. That's home for me. And it hasn't changed 00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:38.199 much from what I understand. Same courtyard, 00:04:38.579 --> 00:04:40.720 more or less the same bones it had back then. 00:04:40.899 --> 00:04:43.819 I didn't know that. It's a strange thing, realizing 00:04:43.819 --> 00:04:46.459 you've probably had a drink 20 feet from where 00:04:46.459 --> 00:04:49.160 a 19 -year -old girl got booked into a life she 00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:52.319 had no idea was about to end four years later. 00:04:52.730 --> 00:04:55.110 You don't think about it until you know to think 00:04:55.110 --> 00:04:57.029 about it. That's the thing about places like 00:04:57.029 --> 00:04:59.189 that. They don't remember anything. They just 00:04:59.189 --> 00:05:03.810 keep being a bar. Yeah, someone has to. Nine 00:05:03.810 --> 00:05:06.370 days after the body was found, someone mailed 00:05:06.370 --> 00:05:09.290 a manila envelope to the Los Angeles Examiner. 00:05:09.810 --> 00:05:12.810 Inside, shorts, birth certificate, her social 00:05:12.810 --> 00:05:16.209 security card, photographs, and an address book 00:05:16.209 --> 00:05:19.129 with several pages torn out. The envelope and 00:05:19.129 --> 00:05:21.529 its contents had been wiped down with gasoline. 00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:24.500 An attempt to destroy fingerprints, which at 00:05:24.500 --> 00:05:26.779 least tells us the sender understood forensics 00:05:26.779 --> 00:05:29.220 well enough to try to defeat them. Or was smart 00:05:29.220 --> 00:05:32.120 enough to know what mattered. Over the following 00:05:32.120 --> 00:05:35.160 weeks, more letters showed up, taunting the police, 00:05:35.399 --> 00:05:38.319 daring them to catch him. Which produced over 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:41.480 60 false confessions and roughly 200 interviewed 00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:45.579 suspects. None of it led anywhere solid. A killer 00:05:45.579 --> 00:05:47.920 taunting the press doesn't hand you a killer's 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:50.980 name. It hands you a personality. Someone who 00:05:50.980 --> 00:05:54.300 wanted to be seen, who wanted credit, who was 00:05:54.300 --> 00:05:56.800 confident enough to mail evidence to a newsroom 00:05:56.800 --> 00:05:59.959 nine days after murdering someone in a way that 00:05:59.959 --> 00:06:03.319 took real time and privacy to carry out. Worth 00:06:03.319 --> 00:06:05.740 noting the newspapers weren't just covering this 00:06:05.740 --> 00:06:09.079 story. They were competing over it. The Examiner 00:06:09.079 --> 00:06:11.560 and its rivals were locked in a circulation war, 00:06:11.740 --> 00:06:14.100 and by several accounts, reporters got to some 00:06:14.100 --> 00:06:17.439 evidence before police did. The Examiner literally 00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:20.579 had detectives on staff. not covering the police, 00:06:20.899 --> 00:06:23.759 working alongside them, sometimes ahead of them. 00:06:24.279 --> 00:06:26.399 Which means some of what we think we know about 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:28.459 this case may have passed through a newsroom 00:06:28.459 --> 00:06:31.139 with a financial incentive to make it more dramatic 00:06:31.139 --> 00:06:34.060 before it ever reached an official file. Or it 00:06:34.060 --> 00:06:36.040 means the paper that received the killer's own 00:06:36.040 --> 00:06:38.759 mailed evidence had every reason to treat that 00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:41.319 evidence carefully, because losing it would have 00:06:41.319 --> 00:06:43.959 ended their exclusive. Both motives could be 00:06:43.959 --> 00:06:46.199 true at once. That's sort of the problem with 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:49.399 this whole case. Everyone touching it in 1947 00:06:49.399 --> 00:06:52.319 had a reason to shape the story rather than just 00:06:52.319 --> 00:06:56.420 report it. Doctors, reporters, police, the killer 00:06:56.420 --> 00:06:59.240 himself, mailing his own evidence to the press 00:06:59.240 --> 00:07:02.240 instead of destroying it. Everyone in this story 00:07:02.240 --> 00:07:05.519 wanted to be part of telling it. Let's talk about 00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:07.860 George Hodel, since I know you're headed there. 00:07:08.180 --> 00:07:12.029 A Los Angeles physician. In 1949, two years after 00:07:12.029 --> 00:07:14.790 the murder, he was arrested and tried for allegedly 00:07:14.790 --> 00:07:17.790 molesting his own 14 -year -old daughter. Acquitted, 00:07:17.970 --> 00:07:20.529 but the allegation was serious enough for a grand 00:07:20.529 --> 00:07:23.910 jury to hear it. And decades later, his own son, 00:07:24.269 --> 00:07:27.509 Steve Hodel, a retired LAPD homicide detective, 00:07:27.870 --> 00:07:30.189 spent years building a case against his father 00:07:30.189 --> 00:07:33.750 and found an actual LAPD file in the DA's office 00:07:33.750 --> 00:07:36.670 vault, naming George Hodel as the prime suspect 00:07:36.670 --> 00:07:39.990 in the short murder. A file built almost entirely 00:07:39.990 --> 00:07:43.050 on circumstantial connections and Steve Hodel's 00:07:43.050 --> 00:07:45.269 own interpretation of his father's character. 00:07:45.529 --> 00:07:48.050 That's not nothing, but it's not physical evidence 00:07:48.050 --> 00:07:51.750 tying him to the body either. There's a wiretapped 00:07:51.750 --> 00:07:54.970 phone call, Eli. Police had Hodel's home bugged 00:07:54.970 --> 00:07:57.689 during the original investigation. And on that 00:07:57.689 --> 00:08:00.350 tape, he's recorded essentially musing that even 00:08:00.350 --> 00:08:02.589 if he had killed the Black Dahlia, they could 00:08:02.589 --> 00:08:04.930 never prove it, because the one person who might 00:08:04.930 --> 00:08:08.540 talk, his secretary, was already dead. That recording 00:08:08.540 --> 00:08:11.199 is real. I won't pretend it isn't unsettling. 00:08:11.540 --> 00:08:13.620 Neither did the detectives who heard it live. 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:16.720 But they can't prove it from a man under suspicion 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:20.000 being needled by his own paranoia isn't a confession. 00:08:20.300 --> 00:08:22.639 People say chilling things about crimes they 00:08:22.639 --> 00:08:24.980 didn't commit all the time, especially when they 00:08:24.980 --> 00:08:27.220 know they're being watched. A physician accused 00:08:27.220 --> 00:08:30.259 of abusing his own child with the surgical means 00:08:30.259 --> 00:08:33.620 to make that cut, joking on a wiretap about a 00:08:33.620 --> 00:08:35.919 secretary who died right when it would have mattered 00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:39.289 if she talked. That's not one coincidence, Eli. 00:08:39.950 --> 00:08:43.269 That's a pattern. Patterns aren't verdicts. He 00:08:43.269 --> 00:08:45.710 was never charged. He left the country and lived 00:08:45.710 --> 00:08:48.990 the rest of his life free. Because nobody could 00:08:48.990 --> 00:08:52.409 prove it. Not because he didn't do it. Before 00:08:52.409 --> 00:08:55.169 we close, I want an actual alternative on the 00:08:55.169 --> 00:08:58.389 table. Not just not enough evidence. Because 00:08:58.389 --> 00:09:00.549 there's a whole other theory that gets far less 00:09:00.549 --> 00:09:02.990 attention than Hodel, and it's built on its own 00:09:02.990 --> 00:09:08.080 real research. Go ahead. A 2017 book called Black 00:09:08.080 --> 00:09:11.240 Dahlia Red Rose makes a case for a bellhop and 00:09:11.240 --> 00:09:13.899 former mortician's assistant named Leslie Dillon, 00:09:14.200 --> 00:09:16.779 working with a nightclub owner named Mark Hanson, 00:09:17.059 --> 00:09:19.039 who Short had actually stayed with in the weeks 00:09:19.039 --> 00:09:21.399 before her death, and whose address book was 00:09:21.399 --> 00:09:24.419 one of the items mailed to the newsroom. Hanson 00:09:24.419 --> 00:09:27.340 who, by multiple accounts, had pursued her and 00:09:27.340 --> 00:09:30.179 been turned down. Exactly the kind of motive 00:09:30.179 --> 00:09:33.740 Hodel's theory doesn't even need. The book argues 00:09:33.740 --> 00:09:36.080 Short was killed at a motel Dylan was staying 00:09:36.080 --> 00:09:38.519 at, where the owners later admitted finding a 00:09:38.519 --> 00:09:40.799 room covered in blood the same morning her body 00:09:40.799 --> 00:09:43.360 was found, and chose to clean it up rather than 00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:46.299 call the police. None of those three men were 00:09:46.299 --> 00:09:49.139 ever charged either, though. That's the same 00:09:49.139 --> 00:09:51.379 evidentiary hole you keep pointing at with Hodel. 00:09:52.159 --> 00:09:55.320 It is. My point isn't that this theory is definitely 00:09:55.320 --> 00:09:58.340 right. My point is that there are at least two 00:09:58.340 --> 00:10:01.000 well -researched, mutually exclusive theories 00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:03.519 about who did this. built by different authors 00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:06.980 decades apart, and they can't both be true. That 00:10:06.980 --> 00:10:09.299 should lower anyone's confidence in either one, 00:10:09.580 --> 00:10:11.639 including yours. Or it should raise it in the 00:10:11.639 --> 00:10:14.460 one piece every theory keeps landing on independently. 00:10:15.139 --> 00:10:18.240 That this wasn't a stranger. Whoever did this, 00:10:18.519 --> 00:10:21.399 in every serious version of this story, knew 00:10:21.399 --> 00:10:24.779 her. There's one more piece of Steve Hodel's 00:10:24.779 --> 00:10:26.919 case worth including, because it's bigger than 00:10:26.919 --> 00:10:30.539 just this one murder. Go ahead. Hodel didn't 00:10:30.539 --> 00:10:33.570 stop at the short case. He spent decades afterward 00:10:33.570 --> 00:10:36.029 and became convinced his father was responsible 00:10:36.029 --> 00:10:38.470 for a string of other unsolved murders of women 00:10:38.470 --> 00:10:41.429 in Los Angeles around the same period. Cases 00:10:41.429 --> 00:10:55.929 he calls the Lone Woman Murders. It's also worth 00:10:55.929 --> 00:10:58.090 being honest that he's not an amateur making 00:10:58.090 --> 00:11:01.299 this up from nothing. He spent his entire career 00:11:01.299 --> 00:11:04.700 as an LAPD homicide detective before he ever 00:11:04.700 --> 00:11:07.399 started building this case. A career that also 00:11:07.399 --> 00:11:09.940 means he knows exactly how to make circumstantial 00:11:09.940 --> 00:11:12.679 evidence sound like more than it is. Professional 00:11:12.679 --> 00:11:15.899 experience cuts both ways. Maybe. But when the 00:11:15.899 --> 00:11:18.100 person building the case against your father 00:11:18.100 --> 00:11:20.240 used to be the person whose job was building 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:23.159 cases against strangers, I think that earns a 00:11:23.159 --> 00:11:25.259 little more weight than an amateur theory would. 00:11:25.879 --> 00:11:28.379 I'll give you that much. Not the conclusion. 00:11:28.649 --> 00:11:32.149 Just that it's not nothing. Worth saying plainly, 00:11:32.269 --> 00:11:36.090 this case is still technically open. LAPD still 00:11:36.090 --> 00:11:39.190 gets tips. And still hasn't run the kind of forensic 00:11:39.190 --> 00:11:41.850 genetic genealogy that actually cracked cases 00:11:41.850 --> 00:11:44.970 like the boy in the box. Because there's no surviving 00:11:44.970 --> 00:11:48.990 physical evidence left to test. No DNA. No fibers. 00:11:49.429 --> 00:11:52.509 Nothing preserved from 1947 that modern labs 00:11:52.509 --> 00:11:55.629 could work with. Which means unless someone confesses 00:11:55.629 --> 00:11:59.460 with real, verifiable proof, or a document surfaces 00:11:59.460 --> 00:12:02.600 that isn't circumstantial. This might be the 00:12:02.600 --> 00:12:05.519 one case that never gets closed, even by the 00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:07.860 standards that finally worked on other cases 00:12:07.860 --> 00:12:11.679 like it. That's probably true. Before we close 00:12:11.679 --> 00:12:14.059 this out, a few details that don't fit anywhere 00:12:14.059 --> 00:12:18.639 else. Go. One. Robert Red Manley, a traveling 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:21.259 salesman and the last person confirmed to have 00:12:21.259 --> 00:12:24.519 seen her alive, was an early suspect. He passed 00:12:24.519 --> 00:12:27.289 a polygraph test and was cleared. But the tabloids 00:12:27.289 --> 00:12:29.909 kept dropping his name into stories for years 00:12:29.909 --> 00:12:32.950 anyway. Being publicly suspected after being 00:12:32.950 --> 00:12:35.350 cleared isn't a small thing. That happened to 00:12:35.350 --> 00:12:38.750 a lot of people in this case. Two. Her body was 00:12:38.750 --> 00:12:41.529 found roughly three blocks from Degnan Boulevard, 00:12:41.889 --> 00:12:44.690 the same street a young girl named Suzanne Degnan 00:12:44.690 --> 00:12:47.549 had been murdered on the year before, in a completely 00:12:47.549 --> 00:12:50.389 different city. Some writers think that's not 00:12:50.389 --> 00:12:53.549 a coincidence. It's a coincidence. Los Angeles 00:12:53.549 --> 00:12:56.789 has thousands of streets. Two unrelated tragedies 00:12:56.789 --> 00:12:58.850 sharing a nearby street name in two different 00:12:58.850 --> 00:13:02.429 cities isn't a signature. It's geography. Three. 00:13:02.830 --> 00:13:05.850 At the height of the investigation, LAPD was 00:13:05.850 --> 00:13:09.429 fielding so many false confessions that detectives 00:13:09.429 --> 00:13:12.210 developed a private checklist of details only 00:13:12.210 --> 00:13:15.370 the real killer would know, specifically to filter 00:13:15.370 --> 00:13:19.210 out the fakes. Over 60 people confessed to a 00:13:19.210 --> 00:13:21.629 murder they didn't commit. Which says something 00:13:21.629 --> 00:13:24.009 about the case's grip on the public imagination. 00:13:24.269 --> 00:13:26.370 More than it says anything about who actually 00:13:26.370 --> 00:13:30.110 did it. Four. And this is the one that actually 00:13:30.110 --> 00:13:34.429 bothers me. 1947 LAPD was in the middle of one 00:13:34.429 --> 00:13:37.269 of its most corrupt periods in the department's 00:13:37.269 --> 00:13:40.350 history. Officers on the take, evidence handled 00:13:40.350 --> 00:13:43.509 loosely, at least one lead detective on this 00:13:43.509 --> 00:13:46.830 very case later tied to organized crime connections. 00:13:47.049 --> 00:13:49.509 Which is a real problem for trusting the original 00:13:49.509 --> 00:13:52.320 investigation. I'll give you that. It's not evidence 00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:55.100 for any specific suspect though. It's a reason 00:13:55.100 --> 00:13:58.679 to distrust the whole process equally. Sometimes 00:13:58.679 --> 00:14:00.779 that's the most honest thing you can say about 00:14:00.779 --> 00:14:04.139 a case this old. Here's my actual case, stripped 00:14:04.139 --> 00:14:06.919 of everything circumstantial. There is no physical 00:14:06.919 --> 00:14:10.159 evidence, no blood, no fiber, no fingerprint, 00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:13.120 that has ever definitively tied any single -name 00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:15.860 suspect to Elizabeth Short's body. Not Hodel. 00:14:16.179 --> 00:14:18.899 Not anyone. Almost 80 years of investigators 00:14:18.899 --> 00:14:21.679 trying, and the hard evidentiary bar has never 00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:25.080 been met once. And my case is that the bar you're 00:14:25.080 --> 00:14:28.480 using was built for an investigation from 1947, 00:14:29.139 --> 00:14:31.799 before DNA, before any of the tools we'd use 00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:34.990 today. What's left behind, once you look past 00:14:34.990 --> 00:14:37.690 what physical evidence they didn't have, is a 00:14:37.690 --> 00:14:40.529 killer who is medically capable, personally cruel 00:14:40.529 --> 00:14:43.730 enough to abuse his own daughter, arrogant enough 00:14:43.730 --> 00:14:46.710 to mail proof to a newsroom, and recorded on 00:14:46.710 --> 00:14:49.470 tape all but admitting it. That's not nothing. 00:14:49.990 --> 00:14:53.149 That's most of a case. Most of a case isn't a 00:14:53.149 --> 00:14:56.090 case. No, it isn't.