Hello everyone and welcome to the Every Movie Ever podcast. My name is Ben Crohls.
My name is Rob Macfarlane and welcome to the show, a movie podcast where we ask the important
questions like is art subjective? Or can you categorically claim that one film is the best
horror of 2024? Of course you can't, but I'm going to anyway.
Oh, okay. You're doing it this week? Yeah.
Oh, this is going to be a fun one. Yeah.
Let me pull out my fighting trousers real quick.
This is the censored version of the show guys. Swear's will be bleeped, but fear not. As always,
the full uncensored version is available early on our Patreon for as little as one pound.
It's only a pound. It's a quid. It's literally a quid.
The link to that is wherever you clicked play on this episode. So go enjoy.
It's everywhere. How are you doing today, bud?
Mate, I'm good. I'm just, I'm busier than a one armed monkey with two cocks. It's just,
I cannot find. That's busy, right?
That's busy. It's also quite rare in nature, I think.
I think it's, it's not frequent enough. Imagine how fun a zoo would be if that was the main
attraction. Like, oh yeah, come see a hippo. I've seen a hippo. What I haven't seen.
That's fair point. Fair point. You know what I mean?
Speaking of medical miracles and freaks of nature, how are you bud?
I'm doing good, man. I'm doing good.
Yeah? Yeah. I've been catching up on stuff.
I'm on top of stuff. I'm feeling productive. I was going to say it's the last week. It's like
I've got my co-host back. It's not just some demon who's like, yeah, I'll do that.
And then just bed burritos in depression and struggles not to piss himself.
And then I go, I'll do that. And they're like, no, I've got this. I'm really looking forward
to doing it. Don't take it away from me. I love doing it. Cool. Is it done?
No, Rob. I hate this. I love doing this, but I hate myself.
So. But you're back, mate. It's honestly, I've missed you and you're a delight.
I'm feeling good, man. I'm feeling good. It's good. I saw a couple of movies on the weekend.
They were great. Companion. Super fun film. Nice.
What else did I see? Oh, Love Hurts. Oh, okay. Any good?
Fine. Fine. Yeah. Nice. Yeah.
What are we doing today? Today, buddy, we're doing Heretic,
the Hugh Grant starring and Mormon scarring horror of 2024 that cleaned up the critics
and at the box office. First off, fantastic writing, by the way. That was beautiful.
Thank you. Second of all, very difficult to say.
And we're answering all the hard questions. Is casting a romance star as a villain so hot
right now? You are really pushing this one. I love this. I love this. Why is this sinister old man
using Japanese water features to torture people? And most importantly, I've brought four pieces of
evidence that God is real and that this is the best horror of 2024.
I'm here for it. And I'm going to guide you down
the episode, buddy, basement by basement. You're going to question me.
And then you're going to question yourself. And then finally, when all is said and done,
you're not going to be able to deny the truth. Heretic is the best horror of 2024.
Dude, my mustache just tingled. That's how excited I am right now. Honestly,
I feel like I can hear my pockets. That's how excited I am right now.
It's going to be a good one. Now, for those people that haven't seen the film and aren't intending to
or saw it when it came out and need a refresher so that you know what's going on,
we've written a little breakdown of the plot. I mean, while I say we, Ben, you took the reins
this week. I did. I got sick of doing long winded ones because A, they're hilarious and they're very
well written, but also we spoil shit needlessly. So this one, small, concise, very brief overview.
And then we get to the spoiling. You know what I mean?
Lovely. Lovely. Then we can get to the chunk of it.
Just say from here on out, if you've not seen the film, we really recommend you do.
And I'm about to tell you what happened. So, you know, pause and come back.
Go watch, but then please do come back because we are desperate for the validation.
I hate the wee. I hate the wee that you throw in.
Sorry. Rob is desperate for the validation.
That's better. Thank you.
Just for you, Ben.
Now, Heretic 2024 is about sisters Paxton and Barnes, not real sisters, but young Mormon
missionaries visiting the house of Mr. Reed, responding to his request for religious discussion.
Initially, Mr. Reed engages them in a seemingly respectful theological conversation.
He's nice. But there's, there's subtle hints
suggesting a more sinister agenda. Yeah.
Little twitches. Little twitches.
As the discussion progresses, Reed's demeanor shifts and he begins to challenge the missionaries'
beliefs aggressively. He subjects them to psychological manipulation and orchestrates
disturbing scenarios to test their faith and resilience.
Hero. The women discover evidence of Reed's previous victims,
heightening the tension and their desperation to escape. Reading this, Ben, it sounds like a sort
of theological Takeshi's castle. It is.
That's exactly how I would describe this film. It's a theological Takeshi's castle.
Is it? That's, that's the elevator pitch.
Yeah. That's it. In a climactic struggle, sister
Paxton confronts Reed, utilizing her wits and newfound inner strength.
Oh, I've got a point about that. She manages to overpower him with a little
help from her belief, leading to a violent resolution. The film winds down with an ambiguous
ending questioning what the f**k we just watched in the best possible way.
Yeah. That's good. I like that, buddy.
Thank you. You pointed out earlier,
but I do feel I need the, I do need to reiterate. You do.
Because it's, it's not catching fire by itself. So I need to fan the flames.
This is part two of a little mini series we're doing called So Hot Right Now,
where we look at a trend. So hot right now.
It's just, just so hot right now. Do you know what my favourite thing about this is, bud?
I'm pretty sure that that's said by Will Ferrell in Zoolander.
No, it is. That's the reference. Well done.
And you hate Will Ferrell.
No, I like Will Ferrell sometimes. And I despise him other times.
Step Brothers, one of my favourite comedies.
Okay.
Anchorman, incredible. But there are other films I'm like, come on, Will. It's just you shouting.
Ooh, I'm going to get us to watch a Will Ferrell film that I think you're going to love.
And it's not a comedy.
Is it the Stranger than Fiction?
No, God, no. You're taking the piss. I'm never watching that piece of s**t again.
But that's right. So last week we covered Blink Twice, a movie with a rom-com star
playing a right s**t. And here we are today with a rom-com star playing a right s**t.
Yeah, we are. Now, just before we get into the nitty gritty,
I want to know, you enjoyed this, right? I know you, you know me, but this is a film we like.
I came out of the cinema having watched this and was imploring you to go and watch it. I was like,
please watch it. Please watch it because it is, if anything, right, this is your film of 2024.
Mystical Nerdery, Mystical Nerdery and Street Magic. Yes, please.
You see what I mean? The Street Magic in there. You f**king love that stuff. You love it.
There's theological discussion. There's an over-researched knobhead being an
insufferable prick towards women.
I felt so seen.
Do you know what? There just haven't been enough insufferable white guys over explaining things
to women in cinema for me to feel like I'm represented. And it's nice to see my people
on screen. There's a hole in cinema that needs to be filled. And by God, Hugh Grant tried,
you know what I mean? So I saw this film in the cinema and I came out because I'm,
I've always, since we started the show, I've been desperate to find a film that bridges the gap
between your taste in cinema where you get something from it. It's a cerebral.
Tell me this is the one. It's a cerebral exercise. Yeah. And then I love the horror
element of it. And I like the whole creepy tension building stuff. And I also like the kind of goofy
deaths that happen in films. This has everything for both of us. I was like, Rob, watch it.
This is our film. This is the film that bridges it.
So I got, I got four arguments here, Ben, as to why this is the best horror of 2024.
Okay. Hit me with it.
The four layers.
Let's, let's dive in. The first one, the first one is a little amuse-bouche,
right? This is to draw you in. Okay. It's more of a question for you. Okay. I
want to say that Heretic is such a good film. Yeah. Because the final girl is almost entirely
unique in that she doesn't find any inner physical strength. Okay. She's not the smart,
capable one. Okay. She's the innocent, kind one. Yeah. The film sets up sister Barnes as
the protagonist for the first third of this movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sister Barnes is the protagonist.
Yes. Until suddenly she's not. And you realize that it's her mate, her nerdy, sweet mate,
who doesn't really change throughout the film. Okay. I don't know if there's been in my experience
of horror, another final girl who's not had to develop a new skill, but is already has what she
needs. Okay. And just sticks to that gun. And that gun is softness, kindness, and naivety. I have two
points to come back for this, right? Please do. Um, cause you're more of a horror guy than I am.
This is your wheelhouse. This is your wagon wheel. I do enjoy good horrors. This is your club biscuit
in the, in the lunchbox. Yeah. We can just cut the crap. This is my birth, this is my personality.
You know what I mean? This is, this is where I, this is where I live now. This is what you have
instead of a chin. Yeah. This is what I have instead of a functioning personality, right?
It's just sort of like, Hey, how are you doing today? Yeah. Yeah. Great. Have you seen Friday the 13th?
And speaking of Friday the 13th, I'm going to put it out there that Alice, the final girl in
Friday the 13th, she is also very sweet, very naive, yet very capable when needs to be very capable,
when needs to be, which is what sister Paxton does in this film. Cause when she needs to turn
the cerebral tanks on, she does. And she starts playing the game, but she plays it in a way that
sort of sways it in her favor. Very much like Alice in Friday the 13th, where when she's, you know,
backed into a corner, bear in mind Friday the 13th, if you haven't seen it, it's been out since 1980.
So go yourself, but also the main antagonist is an elderly woman. Okay. Pamela Voorhees, right?
It's Mrs. Voorhees. I wouldn't know. I've not seen it, but I don't need to now cause it's Pamela
Voorhees. Yeah. It's this brittle old woman who can somehow summon the strength to string up a
fully grown adult man into a tree on some sort of rope and pulley system. So that when you walk
under it, he just drops in front of you like a pendulum. No one talks about the upsides of
osteoporosis man. This is what I'm saying. Chalky bones. You are light. You float on water.
You are undrownable. But so when Alice is like backed into a corner at the end of the film,
faced up against Mrs. Voorhees, she ends up sort of just swinging a shovel, decapitating her end
in the film, right? That's not a new skill that she learns. That's just a desperate, desperate
attempt to survive. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is great. But what I'm going to say is I don't
think Paxton is the only protagonist in this film. I think Barnes is the unsung hero in this one.
I think she's a final girl in her own right, which I think is a more unique thing in horror.
To people like myself who perhaps, I mean, I only know what a final girl is because I know you and
that's your personality. Can you describe to the more refined viewer who watches real films,
what a final girl is? And then we'll get back to Barnes being one. Okay. In a horrible situation
where a horde of people are dying, a horde of capable people are dying, the last person standing,
final girl. And Barnes is one. I think Barnes is one. I think Barnes is, hear me out. Barnes is
almost one. Let's be fair. Hear me out. This is what makes her unique as a final girl. She doesn't
make it to the end. Her final act is everyone has assumed that she has been dead for the whole film.
Spoiler alert. Sorry about this one. Should have put this in the breakdown. Go watch it. Go watch
it. We told you. Everyone assumes that she's been dead for the entire film and she only musters up
enough strength to save Paxton when A, Paxton needs a confirmation of her beliefs. A miracle,
yeah. A miracle, which Barnes provides. Yes. She also summons up enough strength to stand for her
own convictions, which is that this man is a piece of shit. My friend deserves to live. Yes. And
then after that, that is her final act. And then after that, we assume that she then dies again.
Yes. Immediately. But there is no confirmation of this. It's just assumed. Right. I would put
that in a more unique final girl moment considering she delivers the death blow. Okay. Over Paxton.
Do you know what I mean? Paxton is very good at getting the, um, getting huge grant into that room.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She has no clue that Barnes is still alive or just has, has just
enough life to help her out. She is genuinely full leaning into her faith in this moment. Yes. And
it is just such a wonderful, gorgeous thing to see her faith reignited and reaffirmed and Barnes
holding out just enough love to save a friend, which is gorgeous. It's incredible. Like the,
the writing of this film and the dialogue is the dialogue is perfect. The performances are perfect.
The subtext and the messaging is perfect on that point about her faith though, as I think that's
my original point is she walks in with her faith. She does. And she wins with her faith. She does.
And she leaves with her faith in terms of a narrative arc. She stays steady. It's the
people around her that waver or change or, I like this. That's why I think, you know,
and there's an interesting, I got, I flipped through the screenplay cause it's available online.
Yeah. So there's a scene in the film where Paxton says, uh, if, you know, if I were to die,
I would come back as a butterfly and I would land directly on someone's hands. So they knew exactly
like what was going on. It wasn't a coincidence. Fingertip. She said fingertip cause she wanted
to make sure that people knew that it was her and not just a random butterfly. And so
when Paxton gets to the end of the film, Barnes is dead. She finally escapes the house. It's the
last few seconds of the film and a butterfly lands on her finger. Now I was curious. I was like,
what, it's quite a faith affirming point in a film that is about the dismantling of faith
as a system of control. Mr. Reed's entire ethos is faith is just a system of control.
And if you have faith, that means you can be controlled, which is why you're going to come
into my basement of horrors. And then it ends with this butterfly on the end. And I'm like,
ah, is this a, is this a God squad movie? Is this a like, I had a similar, I had a similar panic.
So I had to check the screenplay and I'll read, uh, Paxton looks at the beautiful creature. It
seems to mean something to her. It crawls to the top of her hand, pauses a moment, then it flies
right back to the fingertip. Is it a sign from Barnes? Is it a message from God? Is this the
butterfly dream? Are we in a simulation? Is it a coincidence or a hallucination? A divine confirmation?
Who knows? And, you know, I love about the, this scene specifically, I was going to bring this up
later in the episode, but we're on it now. The thing that I love about this is my interpretation
of it was that the way that they were talking about, you know, their dreams and what they thought
heaven would be like, and if they were ever reincarnated, what they would do. And it just
kind of hit me when I was leaving the cinema that what if Paxton is just in that horrid basement
bleeding out from a diabolical wound to the stomach and is just dreaming this whole thing
that Barnes is with her, giving her a little symbol that she's up in heaven. She's been
reincarnated as a butterfly. She wants to let her know that it's going to be okay. What if that is
just all a moment before death hallucination. And it's just, it's just the last little thing of like,
you can really hold your belief right up until the end. And as long as it gives you something
as beautiful as that, go for it. You know what I mean?
It's always led into my kind of my atheist rationalization of life after death, which is
that when your brain dies and turns off, the last thought you have is the last thought you're
conscious of having. So it's technically lasting forever. So where you think you're going is where
you go. Yeah. There's also that scientific thing, right? Where your brain, your brain can have
electrical activity for up to seven minutes after your body dies. But being as your brain is now
firing synapses, but with no concept of time, no perception of reality, no perception of anything,
it can theoretically feel like a lifetime, right? Right. So if you think you're going to hell,
oh yeah, dude, you spend those seven minutes of eternity in hell. You have no, you have no
correlation of time that could last a thousand years. That's my point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
It's insane. Yeah. Yeah. Um, there we go. We solved the afterlife. We said,
we asked the answer the big questions. The film, the film solved the afterlife for me.
The film reaffirmed my atheist ways and it did it in such a gorgeous way that was like,
it just made me chuckle. This is on like, I saw it twice in the cinema. I've seen it maybe three or
four times since it's been out of the cinema. Right. And on my last watch, I was just, it was
no, no, it's no, nothing. Just super casual. Me and me and Roxy were having a little cuddle.
Roxy's my German shepherd, by the way. It's not weird. We were just having a little cuddle. It
was gorgeous. And then, uh, the moment where Mr. Reed writes belief and disbelief on two separate
doors and it's, it's choose which one that you want to go through. Do you believe or do you not
believe? And both of those doors lead you into the same hole in the ground. And I was like,
if that isn't the perfect metaphor for what everyone is going through on a day to day basis,
it doesn't matter whether you believe or not. As long as it means something to you,
that's all that matters. You're both going to end up in a hole in the ground.
I love you. You little fuzzy faced felon, because guess what I was just about to bring up on my
second layer of reasons, reasons that heretic is the best horror film of 2024. Okay. Okay.
I'm here for this. According to your definition of a perfect film. I knew this was coming.
Yeah. Heretic is a perfect film. Okay. Okay. So there's a scene. Did Hugh Grant do this in
real life? Yeah, he did. Yeah. Well, I've got something on that layer. Okay. But it's not,
it's not to do with Hugh Grant. It's to do with those two doors you mentioned, the belief
and the doubt that lead to the same place. Okay. That's not an original story conceit. No. That is
based on originate or an early sort of formalization of that. That concept was in a
short story by Frank Stockton called The Lady or the Tiger, where a man is presented with two doors.
And it's a, it's a very famous short story. It's been kind of plagiarized by a lot of popular media,
like heretic, a couple of Batman animated episodes. It's kind of almost a cliche now. It's a, it's a
trope. Just before he does that, he tells a brief little anecdote about the Landlord game. Yeah,
he does. Which is a board game, Victorian board game. And he says, do you know Monopoly? But do
you know the Landlord game? And he talks about iterations, every story being an iteration
of another story. Yeah. Hit me with this because I can already feel a f**k you coming your way. I'm
just putting it out there, buddy. Well, you've got the two doors. We do. Which is an iteration
of Frank Stockton's The Lady or the Tiger. It is. You've got the maze of the house, which is an
iteration of the Greek myth of Theseus. Yeah, it is. It went with the Minotaur, the deadly Minotaur.
Yeah. In the maze with you. Yeah. Also referenced in Saltburn. You've also got Dante's Levels of
Hell, which is a poster on the wall where Dante is led down by the angel Virgil through the layers
of hell. And this is a vertical house where it's layers of basement upon basement where each one
is more hellish than the last. The entire story itself is an iteration of all the debates and all
of the religious movies that have come before it. A lot of the horror movies that have come before
it. It's a perfect film because it's a film about iteration that is itself an iteration. So much so
that the little nod that they do about how creepers are reinterpretation of the air that I breathe by
the Hollies. You grant us that whole speech. And at the end credits, it's Sophie Thatcher,
who's the actress who plays Sister Barnes singing a cover of Knocking on Heaven's Door to the tune
of Fade Into You. It's iteration on iteration and iteration. Which Fade Into You by Mazzy Starr.
Yeah. I fucking adore that song. Sorry. That was wild off topic, but I didn't know that.
No, it's a great song. It's a film about iterations that is itself an iteration. Okay. It's an example
of what it's talking about. It is. And you are correct. That is my definition of a perfect film
where it is made in such a way that the only people that are more just... The only people that are as
justified to tell that story are the ones that are living it right now. And it turns out that this
film is in fact itself living itself, itself, everything that it's preaching. So you have,
again, trapped me in a corner where I cannot argue this because... We're on level two of four.
Yeah. Okay. Sound. All right. Well, so far you've convinced me it is in fact a perfect film. Is it
the best film of 2024? The best horror film of 2024? Yes. I'm uncertain because we had some
bangers last year. We ate well last year. We did. We did. It was a good year for horror. 2024 was a
great year for horror, excluding long legs, which I despised. We'll get to that. I want to do that
film at some point because on a few rewatches, the marketing ruined it. And I'll go into that.
I didn't get through to my first watch. Okay. I got to Nicolas Cage screaming in a car. Yeah.
Mommy. Yeah. I paused it and I went, this is not for me. It was the endless procession
of lingering shots of suburban doorways. And I was like, you're not respecting my time here, film.
I've got a limit. I can only watch so many films a week. Yeah. Okay. And so far I'm
14 minutes into this film and I've seen some curtains, a lot of furniture, and then suddenly
without warning, Nicolas Cage cosplaying someone's nan doing a Marilyn Manson impression.
Incredible. It's incredible. It is actually incredible. We'll get into it at some point,
though. We will get into it. But yeah, I need you to keep selling me on why this is the best
horror movie of 2024. Cause I have a list of films that are incredibly good. And I have one,
which I think shits over every horror that we've had for not, not for the reason that you think,
for a very different reason. Okay. Okay. Well, we'll hear me out. Yeah. Hit me with it.
You just admitted to yourself that you're an atheist. You're a bit of a cheeky chappy.
Now the church of Latter-day Saints are, believe it or not, not all that saintly.
No. There's some very, very disturbing sort of stuff happening in the background. Obviously
the vast majority of people involved in the faith are just lovely, happy, faithful people.
The administration of that faith is, is what I think you, myself, and a lot of people have
take issue with. Yes. Now, Beckham Woods, the writers and directors of this film are not Mormon,
but they developed the idea for the film whilst working in Salt Lake. And they got a load of
Mormon friends and met a load of ex-Mormon families. And being ex-Mormon is quite difficult.
Yeah, very. So difficult in fact, that during the research of this episode, I stumbled upon
a place called the Lost and Found Club, which is a group for the female and gender queer,
ex-religious community in Salt Lake City. Oh wow. Who hosted their own screening for this film.
Now just quickly, the Mormon church reviewed this film as promoting violence against women
because of their faith, undermining the contributions of volunteers. And the film ran
counter to the safety and wellbeing of our community being dismissive of what believers
find sacred. That sounds like it might've been written by Mr. Reed.
Right. Doesn't it just? Doesn't it? But Lexi Seals-Johnson, who is one of the founders or
possibly the founder of the Lost and Found Club, said one of the best depictions of Mormonism that
she's seen. She wrote, I know many women who served missions, my wife included, who could not
even watch the trailer because of how eerily similar the first scenes were. The film is a
fairly provocative portrayal of faith in general. And it's always jarring to hear these details of
the Mormon church discussed in mainstream media because so much of it is hush-hush.
Right. Okay. Now I know you've got candidates for best horror of 2024.
Yeah. Have they provided reassurance to the traumatized ex-members of a very controversial
religion whilst also wildly offending and upsetting the organization itself?
Um, no. It doesn't.
Have they pointed a finger, spoken truth to power and gone, you are a bunch of wankers?
Cause Heretic does.
Heretic does. And Heretic's done a lot for cinema within a horror movie.
Yeah.
Which is great because this is the difference that I'm gonna try and point out, right?
Right.
Your definition of a good horror movie is first and foremost, a great movie.
Yeah. But scary.
And then secondly is scary. Whereas I would define a great horror movie
as something that conveys true horror and disgust in ways that would not be acceptable
anywhere else. It's like a weird cathartic release of just humanity at its worst.
Okay. Yeah.
Which is great because not only now do I understand you, like your take on horror a little bit more,
but I now feel like I'm armed and I'm equipped to bring more stuff to the table where I'm like,
I'm going to get you on this one, buddy. I'm going to get you on this one, bud.
So no, you are right. None of the films that I've watched last year have done any of that.
And the fact that this film has done that is incredible and it's spoken truth to power.
It's an amazing thing. And I'm, I'm in a weird way. I'm very glad that it's done that because
it shone a light on two perspectives of a very, of what I can only imagine being an incredibly
delicate and difficult situation. There is nothing that I could do in my lifetime,
in my current situation that could ever come close to what those people must be going through.
I mean, a lot, a lot of people who were raised Mormon, you know, everyone that,
especially in Salt Lake City and sort of wider Utah, everyone they know is Mormon.
Yeah, of course.
Their entire upbringing is Mormon. And so when they then lose that faith or they want that,
they find that they have parts of their identity or their lifestyle that aren't
compatible with that faith. It's not that they don't believe it's that the people that,
that are part of their society that have supported them, that have nurtured them,
that have raised them say, but you identify as this and therefore we can't support you.
It's not necessarily that they choose to leave. It's that they're rejected for,
yeah, of course, daring to love who they love. Yeah. Or daring to question these kind of things.
It's an incredibly isolating, I can't imagine everyone you know and love turning around and
just going, nope, sorry, not anymore. Yeah, no, that-
Because my faith is more important than my love for you.
I cannot even fathom what that must feel like.
Right.
For this film to shine a light on it and give you perspectives from both angles so that you
can make a judgment call on where you would like to align yourself.
What a beautiful-
Is an incredible thing.
Important human thing to do.
Exactly.
What are you going to say trumps that Ben? Now's the time. Now's the time to play your hand.
Okay.
What film do you say beats that?
I'm going to have to go Terrifier 3, buddy.
I'm going to have to go Terrifier 3. I'm so sorry.
So I'm going to, I mean, we had The Substance, which was incredible.
We had A Quiet Place Day One, which was fine.
We had Salem's Lot, which was a bag of shite.
We had Nosferatu, which is literally probably one of my favourite films that I've seen
in a long time.
Okay.
You know what I mean? We had Sting. That was ridiculous.
Great Year for Horror.
Cuckoo.
Great Year for Horror.
Smile Two. Abigail. I Saw the TV Glow. All of this stuff. Watches. Dude, we had so much.
We ate so well.
You know. Right.
Right. Now hear me out. What do you think is going to make the biggest splash on mainstream cinema
than Terrifier 3, who came up the ranks from nothing, literal nothing, was R-rated,
wasn't getting a cinema release. No one would distribute it. They sat in the other landed
distributors, had open theatre dates, had such a demand in its, in its wanting that it was then
pushed out into cinemas for an elongated period of time. It was scheduled to run for a week and then
it ended up running for three or four weeks, which was incredible. All independently made.
All a passion project from Damien Lyon and his team, who have all been there since day one.
Terrifier 1 started out with a 35 grand budget, right? Yeah. Terrifier 2 quarter of a million
budget. Terrifier 3 took a two, took a massive gamble on a 2 million budget and turned over
and turned over over a hundred million. Right. At the box office. I hear as an R-rated horror,
which is next to one heard of. This is like Jaws for Horror.
But here's, here's my issue with that argument is that when we've been talking about heretic,
we've been talking about artistic art form related strengths within the film itself.
When you've been talking about terrifier, you've been talking about its commercial performance.
Now I agree. This is just to set you up, buddy.
Terrifier 3 is a fantastic unicorn. That's the commercial success of it, right?
A very, very niche genre. And that's to be applauded. But the actual artistic concerns
within once you close your eyes and pretend you've not seen the budget, close your eyes.
And you don't know anything of the background. You just put the film on and you watch it.
Yeah. Which is the better film.
So you get, you get a passion project that's full of practical effects over the tops,
over the top, over exaggerated comic book-esque storylines. You get a very, very satisfying
round out to a story that's been dragging out for two films now. And you get some of the best
writing from that universe, all on top of some of the most grotesque, wincing horror that I've seen
the entire year. I'm going to go with Terrifier. It's so much fun.
You know that, you know that Top Gear meme of like, this is great, but I love this.
Yes. I feel like it could be, it could be you pointing to a picture of Da Vinci's The Last Supper
going, this is great. But I like this and it's just Dali's toilet. It's just, it's just,
it's a lobster phone. You're like, yeah, I like the lobster phone.
Horror for me is the practical effects. It's that I'm obsessed with the eighties. Tom, Tom
Savini. Yeah, Todd Savini.
I will fight you in a car park. I swear to God, I knew it was coming. It still made me angry.
Tom Savini, the big height of the, you know, the eighties and the early nineties,
where everything was practical effects, everything was over the top, everything had to be bigger,
dirtier, disgusting, full of blood, open wounds, all this.
Psycho Gorman. Dude, Psycho Gorman is like the creme de la creme.
Do you know what I mean? I get that. I get that.
It's that kind of childish innocence mixed with the ultimate evil that really just fucking blows
my tits off. Like unbelievably so. This being said, all I'm doing now is I'm showing my cards
about what I enjoy in cinema and admittedly it's very naive and it's very childish. It's very
immature, but I'm also- Bun doesn't have to be educated, mate. Fun is fun.
Fun doesn't have to be educational. Heretic has taught me a lot of lessons. It made me think in
a way that I wouldn't normally think. I will always have respect for it for putting me in a position
where I have to use my brain. And it is still very fun, but I will take the point.
It's still very fun. Herifyer 3 is much more fun-focused.
For me personally, that's where I'm at. Yeah. So let me take you down to the deep,
dark basement, right? Let's go to the lowest one, man.
There's water around our ankles now, right? Yeah, I'm in. I'm ready.
There's a cold drip from the ceiling. I'm ready.
This is what Hugh Grant said about his process on Heretic. This is what I do now. I go through
the script with an extraordinary tooth comb over and over again. Why does he do that? Why does he
say that? The answer to each question suggests something about him and his past and that
mushrooms into a full biography, which I have all typed out on my computer about his relationship
with his parents, his siblings, what happened at school, what traumatic things have happened,
and what hurt him in this particular case to become the monster that he is now. I think it's
very important that the audience can kind of smell the damage inside him. Otherwise, there's a danger
that you just become a pantomime villain. But if they can smell that there's a suffering person in
there, then they're more interesting. Oh, Jesus Christ.
Now, Hugh Grant, I want to ask what pain do you think he's talking about with Mr. Reed?
Well, he keeps mentioning a wife that is very obviously not there anymore? Question mark?
Possibly.
He says that he only really started getting into theology and research religion in his 40s.
For the last decade, he's in his 50s. Up until that point, there must have been
some shallow soul searching. Who am I as a person? What's this going?
Mm. Okay. So follow along with me down the stank basement.
I'm about to unlock the bike lock. Do it.
There's another character that Hugh Grant played that he became quite famous for
before he played Mr. Reed. This character owned a bookshop. He did.
Who's called William Thacker, and he lives in Notting Hill. And I put it to you, Ben,
that it is Julia Roberts eating that pie in the basement.
Jesus Christ.
All those women in cages are Hugh Grant's prior romance co-stars. Mr. Reed is a pseudonym based
on his time running a bookshop in Notting Hill. He marries Julia Roberts. That's the wife he's
talking about. Heretic is a sequel to Notting Hill, and that's why it's the best horror film of 2024.
You've just swung it. Dude, that whole theory,
even if there is a fucking pebble of truth in that, that makes it the best horror of 2024.
Are you being serious? That's hilarious.
They're not incompatible.
You can watch this.
It works.
There's a photo of him on the table in the Notting Hill era. I think it's a nod.
I love this. I love this so much. See, this is the fun stuff that I strive for in horror.
The goofy, stupid shit mixed in with cerebral stuff. This is it.
There we go.
That's hilarious. I am going to go and watch Notting Hill again,
because I need to do more research into this. This is going to be amazing.
So welcome to the truth, Ben.
Okay. That's interesting. That is interesting. I have a point on Hugh Grant.
Okay. I don't have a point. I have a note that I made whilst watching it.
I don't think I was in a bad mood.
Right.
I've read back through it today and I was like, I might not have been in a good mood.
I don't think I was in a bad mood. I think it was in a shirty mood. You know, when you're just a bit,
sort of like a bit sassy, a bit like, you, it was that. I think I was in that.
Right. So my note on Hugh Grant is this.
Hugh Grant reminds me of these older podcasts, self-help, Ben Shapiro type c***s born with a gift
to intelligently ramble a point so convoluted and complex that it's hard for unprepared audiences
to refute. But the more you sit with it, the more you educate yourselves, you begin to realize
that a lot of this cerebral flavored hate speech that they spew on any platform that will entertain
their arrogant nonsense is all the more hollow than it seems in the moment.
I'm going to just amend this, this point that you're talking about Mr. Reed, the character.
Mr. Reed. Yeah, not Hugh Grant. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I've got this horrible habit of just calling
actors by their names because I'm, I'm A, either too engrossed in, oh, I love this guy. Or I'm like,
I just forget the character name. I hate this guy. That's my bad. Yeah, that's my bad. That's all.
This is about Mr. Reed, the character in Heretic. Right. Right. And that continues.
It's not too dissimilar from extracting a meaning from a movie and putting it out on a mental health
flavored movie podcast, except we're not throwing hate at people or trying to sell a book or a diet
plan. Right. We're trying to sell a little self-reflection whilst dissecting movies.
And that went full circle for me in this one, cause I read it and I was like, I hate Jordan
Peterson and Ben Shapiro and all these dickheads that are out there, literally. Yeah. Yeah.
Oh, better, better, better. Prove me wrong. Shut up. They are two prime examples of using long words
at speed to sound intelligent when what they are saying is pure nonsense. Nonsense. Utter, utter
shit. You sit with it for like a week or so and you're like, shut up. Anyone with half a brain can
listen to a paragraph of what they're saying and just go, you don't have a point here. This is,
this is you, you're just using long words for the sake of using long words. Exactly. And as somebody
who you often make the point, you know, that I have a vocabulary that's this, that or the other.
Like big words. Yeah. But it's called word space like everyone else vocabulary. But that's the
thing. I'll, I'll just start calling it word space. Like the whole point of language and words is to
communicate ideas to the person you're sat across from. And if you feel the need to use the, the
words that you've had the benefit of, of enjoying as a weapon against somebody else, you're not
communicating. You're just peacocking. And that's like, okay, you're going into this in bad faith
already because, because you're, you're using sesquipedalianism as a, as an excuse to do what
I've just done, which is how to have a look at someone's face. I don't know what that means.
What are you talking about? I obviously know what sesquipedalianism means. You know what I mean?
I don't, I don't make me pull a sesquipedalianism. I'll sesquipedronium all over this. You know what
I mean? Ropes of it. Sesquipedalian is. Oh yeah. Just to explain it, just in case any of the
listeners don't know what it means. Is it polysyllabic or long word? Yeah. There you go.
Polysyllabic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's what I said. Yeah. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. No,
I agree with you. Hugh Grant is exactly that. And I think he is, sorry, Mr. Reed is exactly that.
And he's very intentionally that in this film. Thank you. There's a lot of the facts that he
gets wrong, which I thought was quite interesting. There is. Because for instance, crucifixion
sort of post-dated the Pharaohs by several centuries. There was no way Horus was crucified.
Okay. There's major errors that he makes. Horus's number of acolytes was wildly fluctuated according
to the region of Egypt that he was being worshiped. Okay. There are big, big issues with a lot of
stuff he says, which is I think what Sister Barnes picks up on. It's another thing that sort of makes
the tightness of the writing of this film really shine is just as you're starting to think stuff,
the characters think it too. There's so little in this film of characters not thinking or saying
the thing that you're screaming at the screen. Yeah. Nine times out of 10, the moment something
occurred to me, I was like, oh, they should do this. That's the next thing they try. Yeah.
The same. Mine was more sort of like grab the spiky thermometer thing, put it in your pocket,
pass it to the other one. Cause you're obviously a weird target.
Yeah. It was all happening. I think the film's a great look at how you can use
this stuff for good or for evil. You know what I mean? Religion can be a great thing and belief
can be a great thing for people who need it. And then for people who don't need it, it's no harm,
no foul as long as it's not encroaching on anyone, as long as it's not hateful. Right. Like 99%.
And the film tackles this in a nice way though, because you've got the atheist angle of the one
that's challenging every theory and belief possible whilst ultimately trying to push his own,
but also whilst trying to divide and conquer the two devout Mormons in his house. And it's like,
my brother, you might be the devil. You might be Lucifer himself. Jesus Christ. There was so much
of this film where I thought that's the angle they were going to take. I would've hated that.
I was like, oh, they've knocked on Satan's door. I would've hated it. I would've fucking despised
it if that would happen. If that was the outcome of the film, I would have hated doing this
episode. I would have demanded that we don't do it. I love a good Satan movie. I like Peter Stormare
in Constantine is comes to mind as a brilliant Al Pacino in Devil's Africa. Come on. Sure.
Come on. Yeah. It's fine. It's all fine. Your sister. It's all fine, but it's all very much
like, and it was all a dream because it's something that I can't relate to. Do you know what I mean?
So then it just, it removes me from it immediately. And I'm like, well, speaking of faith,
do you want to play a game? I'd love to. Let's do this. So Britannica.com. That's right. You go to
Buzzfeed. I go to encyclopedia websites. Guess who's the posh one. They've got a world religions
quiz. Okay. You ready for this? Yeah. What's the name for a candle holder found in Jewish homes?
Is it a menorah, a meniscus or a Mario? I want to say Mario, but I know it's not. Is it? It's a
menorah. It's a menorah. Okay. I'm so glad that this is multiple choice. Cause I was like, I know
the answer. I just don't remember the answer. What holiday commemorates two Roman saints? St.
Vitas's day, St. Valentine's day or St. Elmo's day. I know which one I want to say. I'm going to say,
I have no idea on this one. So C is it Elmo? C was Elmo. It's not Elmo. It's not Elmo. No,
no, no. It's not St. Elmo and Tickle Me. I imagine that they're both on the same day, right? No.
Although odd tangential fact, the puppeteer who invented Elmo was outed as a particularly
pernicious pedophile. No, it's St. Valentine's day. For fuck sake man. It's nothing sacred.
No, no. Tickle Me Elmo is now canceled. The small child like Muppet that wanted every adult to touch
it was weirdly actually a pedo. What a surprise. Yeah. Okay. Now you put it like that. That's kind
of fucked up. This whole shtick was put your hands on me. Yeah, that's okay. The correct answer was
St. Valentine's day. It's to honor two saints named Valentine, both of whom died for their Christian
faith. Okay. What's the main sacred text of Zoroastrianism? The Quran, the Bible, the Avesta
or the Rig Veda. Say that entire thing one more time for me. The main sacred text of Zoroastrianism.
Zoroastrianism. Yeah. Okay. Is it the Quran, the Bible, or the Rig Veda or the Avesta? What was
the name of the sect again? Zoroastrianism. D. Correct. It is. I can't believe you don't know
about this religion because they're mint. Yeah, I've got no clue. One of the oldest religions in
the world. They worship dogs the same way that Hindus worship cows. Sick. Freddie Mercury was
raised in a family of Zoroastrians. Yeah, sick. I'm in. Yeah, mate. Honestly, it is. I might be
religious. Of all the religions, it's the one that I'm like, if I was gonna, it would be, you know.
Okay. All right. That's my Johnny Depp of religion. Although less so nowadays because nothing is sacred.
Which of these is not a Hinduism? Shaivism, Vanashnavism, Shaktism or Zen? Zen? Yeah, Zen's
a kind of Buddhism, man. We know that because we watched ninja movies. I was in Japan for a bit.
They were very Buddhist over there. Very Zen. They were. That and Taoism, I believe, right? From Japan.
Couldn't tell you, mate. From honestly, I was literally, I was paid to drink when I was there.
So now you've got some clues in here. Okay. Who was the Hindu god associated with rain? Osiris.
Okay. Zoroaster. Yeah. Orion or Indra? B? Zoroastra. Sure. Do you not think they might be something to
do with Zoroastrianism? Oh yeah, they might be actually. Thankfully you didn't fall into my
trap there, Rob. Good answer to my question. D? I forgot the choices. Orion. No, it's not Orion.
I thought Orion was C. So you're going with Indra and you'd be correct. That one. Mate, a four out
of five. Well done, babe. I'm all right. You know what I mean? You are a theologian after all. I
think. I might be a disciple. I think you would have made it out of Mr. Reed's house. I doubt it.
I think he would have really found your points quite interesting and would have let you go. He'd
have been like, do you know what? I'm outclassed. Do you know what I reckon? I reckon you might be
right. I also reckon that the second he started talking about his shit, I wouldn't have been there
long enough for the deadbolt to lock. I'd have been like, fuck this, mate. I'm out. What are we
doing? Why am I here? I fucking walked it. I bite it. I've been caged on the way. Let me out. What
the fuck are we doing? I'm out. What are you going to rate heretic, Ben? Before you do, let me just
make the point. The final girl is not only hidden for the first half of the film, but really quite
an underrepresented type of final girl. Something we don't see very often. And the times we do
see it, they're some of your favourite films. The film is by your own definition, a perfect film.
It is. It's iteration of a story about iterations. It is. It's great. It triggered the Church of
Latter-day Saints into roundly condemning it as vocally as they could, while support groups
for post-LDS life said it was a refreshingly accurate insight into what leaving the church
or being a member of the church and the missionary can be like, provided that comfort and that we see
you to people who need that. And it's a sequel to Notting Hill. It is. So what are you rating
2024's heretic? Four. How dare you? No, I'm only joking. It's obviously a fat 10. What are we
talking about? Obviously a fat 10. Imagine after all of that, he was a four. You know what I mean?
I could have committed to the bit, but I got chewed up on socials. Discord would have swallowed me
whole. You know what I mean? Oh, don't threaten you with a good time. You know what I mean? What,
you think you can handle a baby button mushroom? Don't make me laugh.
Like a four square Lego. What are you rating it? Now I'm torn. Natalie and Brulia. Because
it's all this, this film. Don't cause that'll be in my head for the rest of the month.
This is how I feel. I'm cold and I am shamed. Laying naked on the floor.
The lag makes this impossible. Yeah, it's awful. I can't wait to one day be in the same room. When
we do this, we can sing all we like. Can you imagine? I can't. It's going to be incredible.
That's going to be dangerous, but it's going to be a nightmare. So no, I'm torn. I'm torn.
Because this film is obviously a fat 10. It's a fat 10. It is. However, and don't get me wrong,
this is one of my all time, I'm making the case that this is the best horror film of 2024. However,
it's written and directed by a duo, Scott Beck and Brian Woods. Okay. And they owe me,
they owe me two and a half hours of my life back because the film that they did before this was
called 65. It was absolutely not. No, no, no, no, no, no. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.
The one that made dinosaurs in the future. Boring. That's not dinosaurs in the future.
It was the future came to the past. You can fuck right off trying to put a good spin on that film.
Don't know. Not in the future. Adam driver was in the past. It was a bag of shit. Yeah. I watched
that at the cinema, dude. They owe me money. I'm furious. And so I'm there going heretics, perfect
film, but I kind of, I just, you know, when you see like a new car, I want to key this car. Yeah.
And right. The only thing that stops me is that their film before 65, right. Was the first,
a quiet place. Okay. Hear me out. So it turns out that they can do horror incredibly well.
They can't do it. Anything else. All right. So it's a 65, 65, you go quiet place, you go quiet place.
Then you go 65 and then people still let you make heretic, which is obviously going to piss off a
church. Right. A very large church. So they've, they've got a storied history. They did a quiet
place. Then they did a film called haunt, which I couldn't tell you anything about. Haunt's not bad.
It's not great, but it's not bad. And then they did a TV series, which is low rated on, on IMDB.
Okay. They did a screenplay for a film called the boogeyman. Oh, okay. Yeah. Boogie man. I've got the
poster for that. Okay. Nice. Yeah. It's pretty good. And then they did heretics. So this is,
this is, I would say this is their best film. Yeah. And a quiet place is just behind it. Yeah.
I'll agree. I actually, I actually preferred day one. I thought that was the best of a quiet place.
Are you trying to take, you are taking the piss though, right? Like that's, no, it's got, this is
you. It's got a cat in it, mate. The cat's stolen my heart. I can't judge that film objectively
because I love the cat too much. I love that cat. I don't know how to do this. I don't know how to
do this in a way that doesn't make me seem like a heretics fat 10. Excellent. And I love the cat
from a quiet place day one and 65 can get in the bin. Yeah. Okay. So I'll agree with all of that.
All of that. I'm in an agreement with guys. Thank you so much for hanging out with us. Whoa, whoa,
whoa, whoa, whoa, what's up? Pump the brakes. What are we doing? We've got some news. What's the news?
Well, substance, our substance. Yeah. We're on exclusive episode, which is live on Patreon,
right now, right now, if you can hear this, there is an episode of us chatting about
Sophie Farge, Farge, Farge, the great new horror movie starring Demi Moore and Margaret Qualley
called the substance that we watched and we, we got deep into the guts of deep into the guts of
over on Patreon. Yeah. It's over there right now. It's a Ben edit. So enjoy that one. It's going to
be exciting. Yeah, it's a Ben edit, but also what else is really exciting is we're going to make it
free for one week from today. So you're hearing this on, you're going to be hearing this on Monday,
right? So we're making it free from Monday. The, let me get the date right. Cause we're recording
well in advance on Monday, the 17th until Monday, the 24th of February, 2025. You can go to our
Patreon even as a free user and you get an extra episode, but you can only listen to it in that
one week. And then it goes straight back to being locked behind a paywall. And the reason we're
doing this is that we know some of you haven't pulled the trigger on Patreon yet. And we just
want you to reassure you that the episodes we put on there are some of our best work.
It's infuriating. It's actually infuriating. I love it. Like I love it more than anything because
uh, but obviously I've edited the substance. It is a great episode. There's a few episodes up.
There's a few extra videos up there. We, there's just, there's just stuff and then stuff, even more
bonus content. Our good friends over at top eight media movies got into, asked us if we wanted to
come on their show. And we did. We glazed its tummy. It is, you can't do that sentence with the word
tummy in it. That's Elmo as fuck. That is Elmo as fuck. Ben, I'm sorry for saying tummy. Glazed
their tummy. Yeah. All my days. They asked us to come on their show and we did. And it was a great,
great time. It's outrageous. I've gone silly. Yeah, you've gone silly. That caught me off guard.
I'm famously impossible to offend. That was close. But just before we wrap up this show,
guys, if you've enjoyed the episode and you want to support the show, you can leave us a review and
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you will ever know. We really, really do join us next week when we figure out what's so hot right
now about Nosferatu. I love that you mentioned this. Someone's got to fan the flames because
it's not catching fire by itself, is it? This is literally flame retardant. Ben is now going to
thank you for spending... You can't call it that anymore. Okay, sorry. It's flame challenged.
Now, Ben is going to thank you for spending an hour of your week with us, especially at the start
of the week. We know a lot of you listen on Monday. So, Ben's going to wrap up the thoughts,
themes and feelings of this movie while I just do what I always do and tell you to...
Oh my God, that was outrageous. Well done, sir. Right. My weekly takeaway from this film,
I try and do something silly each week, but this one, it's okay if you're religious and you believe
and you have faith. That's completely fine. And it's okay if you don't. The only thing to be aware
of is just the creepy old bastards that have a vested interest in dividing and conquering
all of us for their own gain. You know what I mean? Also, maybe following a stranger into his
second basement was the point where we decided to sort of start looking at life choices. That's all
I'm going to say. She was a lovely person. I'm glad that she survived possibly, but also,
what are you doing?