1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,480
Right, Ben, obviously this film is about the writing of Citizen Kane, which we covered

2
00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:05,480
last week, right?

3
00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:06,480
Yeah, yeah.

4
00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:07,480
Yeah, yeah.

5
00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:11,560
Specifically for this film, because we thought it would make no sense to cover this and not

6
00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:14,040
have introduced people to what Citizen Kane was.

7
00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,040
And we forgot to rate Citizen Kane at the end of the episode.

8
00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:18,760
Oh man, yeah, that's what I'm saying.

9
00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:19,760
So mine's a 10.

10
00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:20,760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

11
00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:21,760
So are you...

12
00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:22,760
You're not...

13
00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:24,040
Are you listening to Venga Boys again?

14
00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:25,040
Boom, boom, boom, boom.

15
00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:26,040
Right, so yes.

16
00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:30,800
I want you in my room to spend the night together from now until forever.

17
00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:32,800
Boom, boom, boom, boom.

18
00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:41,920
Hello everyone and welcome to the Every Movie Ever podcast.

19
00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,520
My name is Ben Groves.

20
00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:45,880
My name is Rob Macfarlane.

21
00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:50,480
Welcome to the show, a movie podcast where we ask the important questions like, what

22
00:00:50,480 --> 00:00:51,480
the hell, David?

23
00:00:51,480 --> 00:00:53,120
No one even gets murdered in this film.

24
00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,920
No wonder it made less than 10% of its budget back at the box office.

25
00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,640
Is this Fincher's Most Slept On masterpiece?

26
00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:00,640
Probably.

27
00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:01,640
You know what I mean?

28
00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:02,640
Probably.

29
00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:04,240
I've got some cases to make.

30
00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:05,240
All right.

31
00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:07,800
Well, this is the censored version of the show, ladies and gentlemen.

32
00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:09,700
Swearers will be bleeped, but fear not.

33
00:01:09,700 --> 00:01:16,200
As always, the full uncensored version is available early over on our Patreon for as

34
00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,520
little as one pound a month, buddy.

35
00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:20,520
Yes, it's like 20 minutes longer as well.

36
00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:22,080
And that's not just swear words.

37
00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,320
It's not like we cut 20 minutes of swearing out of an hour show.

38
00:01:25,320 --> 00:01:28,760
There's extra content, extra insight, extra all sorts.

39
00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,760
17 minutes of swearing, three minutes of content.

40
00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,520
Don't give the game away.

41
00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:36,320
How you doing, buddy?

42
00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:37,320
Yeah, I'm good.

43
00:01:37,320 --> 00:01:42,080
A little busy, so my shift had to get switched around to cover some staff absence.

44
00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:47,520
That coincided on the one week where of the month where we also record the bonus Patreon

45
00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:53,080
episode, so we've got to lots of research, to lots of formatting, to lots of like editing

46
00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:54,080
to do and stuff.

47
00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:58,000
So I'm a little busy, a little busy, a little flustered, sir.

48
00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:59,000
How are you?

49
00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:00,000
I'm good, man.

50
00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,200
So I remembered Vengaboys were a thing.

51
00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:03,200
Went on Spotify.

52
00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:07,640
I can tell because you are moving like Hitler watching tanks go by.

53
00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:08,640
I'm not going to lie.

54
00:02:08,640 --> 00:02:10,440
You know that footage of him on meth?

55
00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:11,440
Yeah.

56
00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:12,440
Just going.

57
00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:13,440
Yeah.

58
00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:14,440
Loving it.

59
00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,880
Next week, if you remember, could you put that to some Vengaboys?

60
00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:18,280
Oh, mate, I'll do it tonight.

61
00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:21,440
I mean, to be fair, looking at the news, I don't know if we actually need that on social

62
00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:22,440
media.

63
00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:23,440
It's already out there.

64
00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:24,440
Wait, wait, wait.

65
00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:25,440
I could just use Elon.

66
00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:26,440
There you go.

67
00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,180
Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na.

68
00:02:29,180 --> 00:02:30,180
Please don't.

69
00:02:30,180 --> 00:02:31,180
Please don't.

70
00:02:31,180 --> 00:02:32,180
What are we doing today, Ben?

71
00:02:32,180 --> 00:02:33,180
Today, buddy.

72
00:02:33,180 --> 00:02:38,560
We're on our penultimate David Fincher film in our series covering every David Fincher

73
00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:39,560
movie ever.

74
00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:46,320
The Citizen Kane adoring, but audience boring manc released in the early days of the pandemic

75
00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:53,320
director Netflix with a limited theatrical run all the way back in the distant 2020.

76
00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:57,280
Now here is where we normally do a little time capsule recap of the events of that year,

77
00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,720
but let's not.

78
00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:00,720
Let's not.

79
00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:05,040
I will, however, for the first time in a while, Ben, ask you where Fincher at?

80
00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:06,040
What that man do?

81
00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:11,840
He talks with Kathleen Kennedy about doing a set of super dark Star Wars movies.

82
00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:12,840
Didn't get that.

83
00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:13,840
Why the fuck not?

84
00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:14,840
No, we didn't.

85
00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:16,600
He just to talk about starting stuff.

86
00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:18,640
I think you start stuff.

87
00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:22,960
People read what he's doing and they're like, no, that's you're not put, not my universe,

88
00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:23,960
not my Star Wars.

89
00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:24,960
Too dark.

90
00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:25,960
Yeah.

91
00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:26,960
Right.

92
00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:27,960
I agree.

93
00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,920
He was hired to do the cancel sequel to World War Z, but that got shelved when China banned

94
00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:35,040
film productions involving ghosts or zombies.

95
00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:36,040
Yeah.

96
00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:37,040
Yeah.

97
00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,320
It should be the fly on the wall in that room.

98
00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,040
There is like all of the highest officials in the country.

99
00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:47,160
I mean, it doesn't feel like in 2020 that that was the worst thing happening in China.

100
00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:51,360
It's not the top of the list to be talking about in a room full of high elected officials.

101
00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:52,360
Let's maybe-

102
00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,160
In 2020, China had stuff on.

103
00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:55,160
Yeah.

104
00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,960
Why are you banning ghosts at the start of the fucking pandemic?

105
00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:04,840
Well, I want to answer, Ben, for the audience and for myself, whether this is Fincher's

106
00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:11,080
most slept on masterpiece, is it a masterpiece and does it get the sort of love and adoration

107
00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:12,080
that it deserves?

108
00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:16,760
Or shall we for the benefit of the majority of the population who haven't seen this,

109
00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:19,040
because most people haven't seen Citizen Kane.

110
00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:20,840
We know, we see our numbers.

111
00:04:20,840 --> 00:04:21,840
Fuck yous.

112
00:04:21,840 --> 00:04:22,840
Right?

113
00:04:22,840 --> 00:04:23,840
Go listen.

114
00:04:23,840 --> 00:04:25,960
We also know that people aren't going to be watching a film about the making of that film.

115
00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:27,560
So can we break it down for the audience?

116
00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:29,120
I've written this week's breakdown-

117
00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:30,120
Oh, you've done it.

118
00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:31,120
For you, my dear boy.

119
00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:32,120
Oh, lovely.

120
00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:33,120
Thanks, Ben.

121
00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:34,120
It's three paragraphs.

122
00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:35,440
There are no titles because I know you're not a big fan of the titles.

123
00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:36,440
It's just me that does it.

124
00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,080
So for this one, I've written it for you.

125
00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:40,080
You buddy, I do anything.

126
00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:41,080
I know.

127
00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:42,080
I know, I know, I know.

128
00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:43,080
Not anything, but-

129
00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:44,080
Let's just see how it goes.

130
00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:45,080
I'm going to listen to Venga Boys.

131
00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:46,080
You blast it out, buddy.

132
00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:47,080
You know what I mean?

133
00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:50,280
Shall I wave when I need you to participate again in the podcast we both run?

134
00:04:50,280 --> 00:04:52,480
Yeah, go for it, bud.

135
00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:57,640
So the story kicks off in 1940 with Herman J. Mankovitz, or Mank for short, laid up in

136
00:04:57,640 --> 00:04:59,680
bed after a car accident.

137
00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:04,280
Orson Welles hires him to write the screenplay for Citizen Kane, giving him full creative

138
00:05:04,280 --> 00:05:07,360
freedom, but also a tight 60 day deadline.

139
00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:09,680
Mank's stuck out in the desert with a nurse.

140
00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:10,680
Yup, a secretary.

141
00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:11,680
Oh, go on then.

142
00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:12,680
Yeah.

143
00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:13,680
And a lot of booze.

144
00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:14,680
Why am I hard?

145
00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:15,680
I know.

146
00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:16,680
Right.

147
00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,520
To keep him company while he dictates the script.

148
00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:23,840
The movie then flashes back to the 1930s where we see Mank's life in full swing.

149
00:05:23,840 --> 00:05:24,840
Full swing.

150
00:05:24,840 --> 00:05:29,560
He's this brilliant but self-destructive white- He's this brilliant but self-destructive

151
00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,960
white- He's this brilliant but self-destructive white- Can you stop moving?

152
00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:35,760
Boom, boom, boom, boom, buddy.

153
00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:37,240
Right, I'm just going to minimise you.

154
00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:38,240
No, no, no, no.

155
00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:39,240
All right, all right, all right.

156
00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:40,240
I'll turn it down.

157
00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:44,760
The movie then flashes back to the 1930s where we see Mank's life in full swing.

158
00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:49,520
He's this brilliant but self-destructive writer working for MGM Studios, where Louis

159
00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:55,800
B. Mayer runs things like a dictatorship under the guise of being family.

160
00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:56,800
Personal hero energy.

161
00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:58,760
Oh, I see you.

162
00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:03,680
Mank's sharp tongue and wit make him a regular guest at William Randolph Hearst's San Simeon

163
00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,760
Estate, where he befriends Marion Davies.

164
00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:07,840
She's smart.

165
00:06:07,840 --> 00:06:09,720
Make booby gesture with hands.

166
00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:11,000
And Ben, it's an audio podcast.

167
00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:12,000
No, I saw it.

168
00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:13,000
This is why I minimised you.

169
00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:14,000
I saw it.

170
00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:15,000
I appreciate it.

171
00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:16,000
Thank you.

172
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:17,000
What a glamorous and kind-hearted mistress.

173
00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,560
Marion and Mank have this great platonic bond.

174
00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,880
You can tell Mank's starting to notice the cracks in the system.

175
00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,600
The manipulation, the power plays, all of it.

176
00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:28,880
I mean, I'm just glad you said in the system.

177
00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:29,880
Yeah.

178
00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:31,160
Now, this is where things heat up.

179
00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,640
The film dives into my personal wank bank.

180
00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:35,640
Thanks for that one, Ben.

181
00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:36,640
Sing it, sister.

182
00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:41,600
The 1934 California gubernatorial election, which turns out to be a huge turning point

183
00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:42,600
for Mank.

184
00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:43,600
I mean, you're not wrong.

185
00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:48,600
Hearst and Mayer throw their full weight behind crushing Upton Sinclair, the socialist candidate.

186
00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:49,600
Utter scum.

187
00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,240
Again, I'm a socialist, Ben, but fine.

188
00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:56,760
Using dirty tactics and propaganda, allegedly.

189
00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:01,300
Some might say incredibly smart and effective tactics employed by some of the best blue

190
00:07:01,300 --> 00:07:02,640
tie heroes in history.

191
00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:03,640
Wow, that's a strong one.

192
00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:06,800
They make fake newsreels to sway voters.

193
00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:07,800
Legends.

194
00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:12,120
Mank watches it all unfold and becomes disgusted with how Hollywood is being used to manipulate

195
00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:13,120
public opinion.

196
00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:18,160
At the same time, in the 1940 timeline, he's pouring all of this frustration and anger

197
00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:22,960
into his screenplay, turning Hearst into the larger than life character of Charles Foster

198
00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:23,960
Kane.

199
00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:27,520
It's not just Hearst he's skewering, it's the whole system.

200
00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,880
Marion tries to warn Mank to back off, but he's too far gone.

201
00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:35,880
His drinking gets worse, his relationships fray, and even his secretary starts questioning

202
00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,880
whether this script is just a personal vendetta.

203
00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,240
She's getting ideas.

204
00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:43,240
Hell pass skin.

205
00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:44,240
Disgusting.

206
00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,720
In the final act, we get the big showdown.

207
00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:49,640
My WWE.

208
00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:53,960
In a flashback, there's this intense scene where Mank, I mean, it is a great scene, where

209
00:07:53,960 --> 00:08:00,040
Mank drunkenly confronts Hearst at one of his San Simeon parties, like the belligerent

210
00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,200
peasant with a pen that he is.

211
00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:08,280
He tears into Hearst and his powerful guests, calling them out for their hypocrisy and their

212
00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:09,280
corruption.

213
00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,320
Hearst, cool as a cucumber, doesn't lash out.

214
00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:19,280
Just tells Mank a crushing parable about an organ grinder and his monkey, basically calling

215
00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,160
Mank a puppet for the system.

216
00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,000
Which he f***ing is.

217
00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:25,000
Sing it, sister.

218
00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:30,040
Like this moment fuels Mank's resolve and back in 1940 he finishes the script, now titled

219
00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:31,880
Citizen Kane.

220
00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,680
Not my Citizen Kane.

221
00:08:34,680 --> 00:08:39,860
But when Orson Welles tries to take sole credit for the screenplay, Mank fights back, demanding

222
00:08:39,860 --> 00:08:40,860
his name be on it.

223
00:08:40,860 --> 00:08:42,440
Let the peasants fight, I say.

224
00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:43,920
F*** it, televise it.

225
00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:44,920
That's my Citizen Kane.

226
00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:45,920
Sing it, sister.

227
00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:46,920
I see what you did there.

228
00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:47,920
Okay.

229
00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:48,920
Sing it, sister.

230
00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:53,200
The film ends with Citizen Kane being released and Mank winning the Oscar for Best Original

231
00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:54,320
Screenplay.

232
00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:55,560
But it's a hollow victory.

233
00:08:55,560 --> 00:08:59,120
His career is over, his relationships are in shambles and you're left wondering if it

234
00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:00,120
was all worth it.

235
00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,400
Still, he got the truth out there and that's what mattered to him.

236
00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,280
But he died as an out of work pauper and that's what mattered to me.

237
00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:08,280
Ben.

238
00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:10,100
That's an interesting take on that one, bud.

239
00:09:10,100 --> 00:09:13,240
It's an interesting take for you to have written for me to read out.

240
00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:14,240
Yeah, I mean.

241
00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:15,960
There's not much in the way of full stops.

242
00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:16,960
Oh yeah.

243
00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:17,960
Yeah.

244
00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:19,960
How many coffees have you had today, babe?

245
00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:20,960
It's a lot.

246
00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:21,960
Oh, okay.

247
00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:23,880
So, I'm just going to put it out here, right?

248
00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:25,720
I'm incredibly tired.

249
00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:30,440
I've done two ridiculously long days back to back.

250
00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:37,040
I have programmed two weeks worth of screenings at my cinema, which is fine.

251
00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:38,040
That's fine.

252
00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,640
I've also done two weeks worth of socials.

253
00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:41,640
Right.

254
00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,720
So, I'm just looking at you and you are vibrant.

255
00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:45,720
I'm fizzing.

256
00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:50,920
The amount of caramel-laced caffeine that is flowing through my veins right now is literally

257
00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:51,920
like...

258
00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:56,080
It's like from the taurine and the lysine and the whatever it is drinks as well, aren't

259
00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:57,080
you?

260
00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:58,080
Yeah, I can tell.

261
00:09:58,080 --> 00:09:59,080
I can tell.

262
00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:00,080
Don't worry.

263
00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:01,080
Just a quick question.

264
00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:07,000
This movie, before you watched it, were you jumping for joy or were you eager and keen?

265
00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:12,120
Because I spoke to you and you were absolutely destitute with despair.

266
00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:13,120
You were like, why?

267
00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:14,920
I was fuming that we were doing this.

268
00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:15,920
I was fuming.

269
00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:21,840
I was like, can we just end the Fincher series because I don't want to watch a Fincher biopic

270
00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:27,680
about a man that may or may not have been involved in the writing of Citizen Kane.

271
00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:31,640
If it's any consolation to you, buddy, when we took the break over Christmas and I was

272
00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:36,840
looking at what was left to do and I was thinking, maybe we just do Gone Girl and we park the

273
00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:41,880
rest of Fincher's filmography because it's Manken the Killer and I wasn't looking forward

274
00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,880
to Manken because I'd seen it back in 2020.

275
00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:48,360
I hadn't re-watched Citizen Kane in order to watch the movie.

276
00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:53,360
I just went in based on my memory of the film and I was dreading this one.

277
00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:55,240
I was dreading this one.

278
00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:59,480
Not only because I knew that you would hate it, but also because I kind of thought I might

279
00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:00,480
too.

280
00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,120
And then I was like, it's just going to be two blokes moaning about a film being old.

281
00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:05,120
Right?

282
00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,440
The first thing that went through my head was I tried doing a little bit of research

283
00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:12,700
and being sort of like, right, okay, let's dive into the reviews of this and I could

284
00:11:12,700 --> 00:11:14,160
only find critic stuff.

285
00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,700
There's no like hobby podcasts.

286
00:11:16,700 --> 00:11:19,480
There's no sort of like letterbox disdain on it.

287
00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:20,480
You know what I mean?

288
00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:24,120
It's all fart sniffing, self wanky aficionados.

289
00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,360
We are reading Shakespeare at the strip club right now.

290
00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:29,160
This is literally what I was thinking.

291
00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:33,000
I put it on, not knowing what to expect because this is my first watch through.

292
00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,760
I didn't even know this film existed until we started doing this series.

293
00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:42,280
I put it on and I'm a big fan of 1940s films, black and white cinema, old Hollywood.

294
00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:43,280
Big fan.

295
00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:44,280
You are.

296
00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,000
That's going to become relevant later, by the way.

297
00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:52,200
As soon as this film started playing, I was gobsmacked at the amount of nostalgia that

298
00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,640
hit me for a film I'd never seen.

299
00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:58,360
It's almost like Fincher went, hey, hey, hey, sorry, just one sec.

300
00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:02,840
I know that I've been smashing modern day cinema, banging out masterpiece after masterpiece,

301
00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:04,480
much like the Venga Boys.

302
00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:10,440
What I'm going to do is though, leave out, is I'm going to just hold my beer a sec.

303
00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:15,680
I'm just going to quickly fix everything from the 30s and 40s in like one fell sweep.

304
00:12:15,680 --> 00:12:17,880
Just knocks out the park, buddy.

305
00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:22,220
Having rewatched Citizen Kane last week for the show and going into this film properly

306
00:12:22,220 --> 00:12:26,760
like informed, having researched Citizen Kane, having learned, I knew about the W. Randolph

307
00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:31,360
Hearst, but I didn't quite know like the degree to which it was happening.

308
00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,680
This film looks gorgeous from the first frame.

309
00:12:34,680 --> 00:12:35,680
It's unbelievable.

310
00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:40,760
And the dialogue, the pace, the shots, the flashback structure of the narrative, everything

311
00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:47,600
down to the deep focus, the optical printer stuff is like a love letter to Citizen Kane.

312
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:49,760
And it's not pastiche.

313
00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:55,160
It's not homage because there's a whole beauty to the new content that Fincher brings to

314
00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:56,160
this.

315
00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:01,040
But like the attention to detail, there's a Fight Club reference.

316
00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,000
In Mank, did you spot the Fight Club reference?

317
00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:04,000
No.

318
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:05,000
What?

319
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,240
In Fight Club, Tyler Durden edits penises into films, right?

320
00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:09,400
Yeah, I knew you were going to say this.

321
00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:11,920
And he does it between the cigarette burn cues.

322
00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:12,920
Yes, he does.

323
00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,880
Which are the little dots on the film that tells the projectionist get ready to change

324
00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:17,880
the reel.

325
00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:18,880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

326
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:23,720
This film's littered with those cigarette burn cues, but the first one comes as a character

327
00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:25,840
says, wait for your cue.

328
00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,960
And then there's a beat and then there's the first of those.

329
00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:31,640
That's tied into the narrative.

330
00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:33,120
It's tied into the dialogue.

331
00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:34,160
I love that.

332
00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:39,560
Other details like when we see him drop the alcohol onto the floor from the bed where

333
00:13:39,560 --> 00:13:42,160
he's fallen asleep in an alcoholic day.

334
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:48,820
They recreate the shot from Citizen Kane of Kane dropping the snow globe that reminds

335
00:13:48,820 --> 00:13:51,220
him of his great love.

336
00:13:51,220 --> 00:13:53,920
It's not just an homage to Citizen Kane.

337
00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,720
It's informing us about Mankiewicz as a character.

338
00:13:57,720 --> 00:13:59,320
Alcohol is his rosebud.

339
00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:00,320
Yeah.

340
00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:01,320
Beautiful.

341
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,600
The cigarette is essentially a maid.

342
00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:05,600
Right.

343
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:10,960
And the little things like every time they cut back to the first half of the film when

344
00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:16,920
they cut to the 1940s footage of him writing Citizen Kane, it sets up an establishing shot

345
00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:21,120
of his notebook, the brand of which is called The Spiral.

346
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:22,120
Wow.

347
00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:23,120
Okay.

348
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:24,720
Because he's in his alcoholic spiral.

349
00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:33,480
It's just this beautiful David Fincher's OCD autism just applied to a film of this era

350
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:37,080
is a wonderful, wonderful thing to watch.

351
00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:41,760
Going into it, I was dreading it and then suddenly every shot I was like, oh, oh, doing

352
00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,800
the Leonardo DiCaprio clicking at the screen thing.

353
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:49,920
And then it just became like a fun movie nerd spot the difference.

354
00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:50,920
I loved it.

355
00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:51,920
It was great.

356
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,320
I'm going to read my notes for, cause I was typing as the film was playing out and it

357
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,040
was like, it was a moment to moment thing.

358
00:14:58,040 --> 00:14:59,040
Right.

359
00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:00,040
Yeah.

360
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,880
So I've, these are my notes word for word immediate reaction.

361
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:08,200
This is, you know, it opens up credits rolling music's playing music's amazing in this by

362
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:09,200
the way.

363
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,200
But anyway, I've got a whole section.

364
00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:12,200
Amazing.

365
00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,760
The, this is what I've written immediate reaction.

366
00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:16,360
The fuck am I watching?

367
00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:17,880
Why did Fincher make this?

368
00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,680
It's so far removed from everything else he's ever done.

369
00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:21,960
It's a shock to my system.

370
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:23,720
I don't like change.

371
00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:30,160
And then the second that the credits were done rolling, my notes then go, Oh no, I fall

372
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:31,160
three 16.

373
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:32,200
I think I love this.

374
00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:37,560
I cannot fathom why Fincher would make this, but the look, the feel, the atmosphere and

375
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,440
the sound is fucking incredible.

376
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,560
Everything feels so authentically old school.

377
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:48,360
The audio especially, because the thing that got me with the audio, it's, it's a weird,

378
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,880
I dunno, I'm a little bit obsessed with the old black and white films from the forties

379
00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,160
because of the way that the dialogue sounds.

380
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:59,400
It has this natural reverb that only seems to happen on a soundstage and it's insane

381
00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:00,480
to try and recreate it.

382
00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,640
It just, it rarely happens ever.

383
00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:03,640
Right.

384
00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,080
So you've, you've mentioned three things there that I've got headings that I want to talk

385
00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:08,080
about.

386
00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:09,080
So let's not go in order.

387
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,080
Let's go with the last one you mentioned, which is the sound.

388
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,680
So the sound is entirely mono.

389
00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:15,680
Incredible.

390
00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,760
So he did the entire film in mono.

391
00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:23,440
Now for those listeners who aren't like me with a background in music or like Ben yourself,

392
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,560
a background in the Beatles, can you describe the difference between mono and stereo for

393
00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:28,800
our listeners, please?

394
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:30,920
Mono everything is down the middle, one track.

395
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,280
Stereo everything is panned out between left and right.

396
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,560
It's like a bigger space to listen to.

397
00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:36,560
Yeah.

398
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:38,600
The left speaker has something different in it to the right speaker.

399
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:43,000
So somebody can walk across the frame and you'll hear the move from left to right.

400
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:47,160
Or importantly with dialogue, you can have dialogue in a different space to the music.

401
00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:51,280
So it doesn't all step on each other, right?

402
00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,120
The entire film is in mono, but the mix is 5.1.

403
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:55,120
Yes, it is.

404
00:16:55,120 --> 00:17:00,680
The mix is 5.1 so that they can add a reverb of an imaginary cinema into the rear channels.

405
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:01,680
Incredible.

406
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:03,520
I love this.

407
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:08,080
It's like you're sat in a theatre watching it because they've got this big space behind

408
00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:09,080
you.

409
00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,120
All the dialogue has this natural reverb to it.

410
00:17:11,120 --> 00:17:16,240
It's like, even when they're outside and you can tell it's not built on a sound stage,

411
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,480
it's on location and it still sounds like sound stage.

412
00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:21,160
And it's to die for.

413
00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,320
It is literally, it just warmed my entire soul.

414
00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:29,040
Ren Kleist, the sound designer, has worked with Fincher on almost every film he's ever

415
00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:30,040
done.

416
00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,280
So they just have a natural shorthand for this stuff now.

417
00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:33,280
Incredible.

418
00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:34,280
It's incredible.

419
00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:35,280
Fincher says do it.

420
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:36,280
He's like, yeah.

421
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:37,280
And then that's it.

422
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:38,280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

423
00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:39,280
And they just speak in code.

424
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,280
At that point, we have our own language for doing this show.

425
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,200
I can't imagine the shorthand at those two.

426
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,120
And everyone on Fincher's team has.

427
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:49,600
The other thing you asked is why did Fincher make this?

428
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:50,600
Guess what?

429
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:51,600
I can tell you.

430
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:52,600
Okay.

431
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:53,600
I need to be honest.

432
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:54,600
I think I know why.

433
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:56,480
But the audience don't, so allow me to tell you anyway.

434
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:57,480
Do it.

435
00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:58,480
I have a theory on it.

436
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:00,840
Can I give you my theory and you tell me whether I'm close to the mark or not?

437
00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:02,320
Because I've done zero research on this.

438
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:03,320
I've just not had time.

439
00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:04,320
Okay.

440
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,600
This whole episode is you teaching me this film because I'm obsessed with it and I just

441
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:08,600
want to know more.

442
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:10,280
And I love how enthusiastic you are about it.

443
00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:14,560
So I've purposefully, in prep for the show, not done anything.

444
00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:16,040
Wait, give me your theory.

445
00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:20,400
So I think because we're on the Fincher journey right now and we've gone through all of his

446
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:24,320
films and through each film, I learn a little bit more about him and the way that he makes

447
00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:29,880
film and the way that he obsesses over every tiny aspect of film, every tiny detail.

448
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:31,120
Right?

449
00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:38,240
This is essentially what this feels like a film nerd having completed everything of modern

450
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:44,080
day cinema, wanting to go into more detail about where his nerdity comes from.

451
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,240
He's like, yes, I know what every single person does.

452
00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:47,240
Right.

453
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:48,240
Yes, I know their job descriptions.

454
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:49,240
Yes, I can tell.

455
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,160
I can walk into any single person on my cast and crew and know that they're as important

456
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:53,160
as the last.

457
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,600
I wonder what it was like in the thirties.

458
00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:01,040
You're close with the wondering where his love comes from.

459
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:02,040
Okay.

460
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:03,480
But also wildly out.

461
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:05,040
You want to know that, right?

462
00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:06,040
No, it's fine.

463
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,800
So this was originally going to be David Finch's next project after the game, 1997.

464
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:10,800
Okay.

465
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:11,800
Cool.

466
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,720
David Finch didn't agree with his preference to shoot it in black and white.

467
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:16,200
This is in 1996, 1997.

468
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:17,200
Yeah.

469
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:18,200
Okay.

470
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:22,680
He wants to do a square original aspect ratio, black and white, mono film.

471
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,680
And they're like, alien three went well, didn't it David?

472
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:30,680
The game did really well, but also sad billionaire on your bike, mate.

473
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:31,680
Right.

474
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:32,680
Exactly.

475
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:33,680
You don't want to be the sad billionaire guy.

476
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:34,680
Okay.

477
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,840
So he's got a quote here talking about the script around about that time.

478
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:42,640
He said, it started to work in an interesting way because it's a story about a guy finding

479
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:47,160
his voice and a guy finding out that the things he says matter.

480
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:53,680
For someone who was super natural, for someone who was pretty naturally, uh, for someone

481
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:58,360
who was very witty, ideas were a dime a dozen, or as he says in the film, they cost a whole

482
00:19:58,360 --> 00:20:00,280
lot more than that during the depression.

483
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:01,280
Right.

484
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:02,640
Um, for him, that stuff was easy.

485
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:04,240
So how could he respect it?

486
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:05,240
Right.

487
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:06,240
Right.

488
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:11,120
So he's a guy who on his way to like the bathroom would toss off these ideas of like all the

489
00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:15,040
stuff in Kansas should be in black and white and all the stuff in all should be in Technicolor

490
00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,560
and then get fired off the movie and never get a credit for the great special effect

491
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:19,560
in cinema.

492
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:20,560
Okay.

493
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:21,560
Right.

494
00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:22,560
Yeah.

495
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,840
It seemed an interesting idea that the imaginative power of creation that brings about black

496
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:30,640
and white to Technicolor is the same instinct that saves a $10 contribution to a reelection

497
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:34,720
campaign and goes, you've got everything you need to convince everybody right here.

498
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:35,720
Yeah.

499
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:41,000
So he's attracted to this script because it's about a guy finding his voice in a cynical

500
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:42,280
and corrupt industry.

501
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:43,280
Okay.

502
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:44,280
And this is 1997.

503
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:48,320
So you can begin to see why he thinks this script is mint.

504
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:49,320
Okay.

505
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,240
But there's a, there's a, there's a missing piece that I'm going to give you now.

506
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:53,760
Remember when we covered Benjamin Button?

507
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:54,760
Yes.

508
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,840
And Fincher was talking about how it was so difficult to make because his father had just

509
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,280
died and that was the one man, that was his audience.

510
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,840
That was the guy he was making every film for.

511
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:04,840
Yeah.

512
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:10,960
So this script is written by Jack Fincher, David Fincher's late father.

513
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:11,960
Wow.

514
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:12,960
Hold on one second.

515
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,840
I need to pause Vangabuzz because I feel like this is going to take a sharp turn.

516
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:16,840
Okay.

517
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,080
The Vangabuzz is not coming.

518
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:20,080
Continue.

519
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:26,440
Jack Fincher wrote the script, 120 page draft following a claim by Pauline Kael in her New

520
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:27,960
Yorker article, Raising Kane.

521
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:28,960
Okay.

522
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:30,800
That Orson Welles did not deserve a screenwriting credit.

523
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:35,200
Now it's since been debated by movie buffs back and forth.

524
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:36,200
Okay.

525
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:37,200
Fincher doesn't really care.

526
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:42,560
This is him making the script that his dad wrote that he connected with because his dad

527
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:49,840
saw what happened to David, saw what happened to Mankiewicz, saw this corrupt industry and

528
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:54,260
the world it was happening in and went, wow, the people who make this magic are really

529
00:21:54,260 --> 00:21:57,520
exposed to a bunch of toxic horror, aren't they?

530
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:04,080
But he finally gets around to making the script that his dad wrote about his experience in

531
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:05,080
cinema.

532
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:06,080
It's incredible.

533
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:07,080
Holy shit.

534
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:11,900
And so at that point, it doesn't really matter if Orson and Mank wrote it together.

535
00:22:11,900 --> 00:22:13,600
It's not about that.

536
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:20,200
It's incredibly accurate to a lot of the history, but it's also completely inaccurate to the

537
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:26,280
story of the making of Citizen Kane because it's not really about the making of Citizen

538
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:27,280
Kane.

539
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:28,280
We'll get to that later.

540
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:29,280
This is incredible.

541
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:34,320
That what a lovely thing to do for your biggest cheerleader that has ever existed.

542
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:35,320
Yeah.

543
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:36,880
Not, dude, dad of the fucking century.

544
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,400
My son has had a rough time on Alien 3.

545
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,640
I'm going to expose the horrors of the industry that's been going on since the thirties in

546
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,880
an absolute belter of a script.

547
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,520
Hold on, hold on, hold on.

548
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:50,520
When did his dad die?

549
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:51,520
Benjamin Button.

550
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:52,520
His dad never got to see this.

551
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:53,520
Oh, that's heartbreaking.

552
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,040
Imagine how proud he'd be.

553
00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,120
He was given 25 million for this.

554
00:22:59,120 --> 00:23:02,200
He was given 25 million dollars to make this film.

555
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:06,800
And I wasn't lying when I said it made less than 10% of its budget at the box office.

556
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:07,800
We'll get into why.

557
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:15,800
I can understand it, but Jesus Christ, my heart, my tired brain and broken heart.

558
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,320
I'm trying to process it.

559
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,120
I wish I would have done some research on this now.

560
00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:21,120
No, no, no.

561
00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:23,280
It's good because it's sad.

562
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,640
Because it's all going to, I'm going to tie it all together in a nice bow at the end.

563
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:31,680
The reason that he makes this film now and the reason it makes so little money and what

564
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,000
this film are really about are all tied together.

565
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:39,320
When it comes to the accuracy, there's a big debate about who wrote what.

566
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:45,080
But essentially he did sign a contract saying, I do not want credit for this.

567
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:50,160
And then went back on that contract against Orson Welles and said, actually, I do want

568
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:51,160
credit for it.

569
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:55,080
I can see why though, because he just crafted the masterpiece of his entire lifetime and

570
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:56,080
then was like, oh, maybe.

571
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:57,080
Right.

572
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:58,080
Exactly.

573
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,280
Shouldn't have drunkenly signed a contract whilst I was in a gambling deck with the studio.

574
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:02,280
Yeah, exactly.

575
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:03,280
Yeah.

576
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:04,280
Okay.

577
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,840
So the cut and thrust might be inaccurate of this A being a film about the writing of

578
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:13,400
Citizen Kane and B being a film accurately depicting who wrote the film.

579
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,880
Things that are accurate though, William Randolph Hearst did actually own a zoo.

580
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:17,880
Amazing.

581
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:22,120
Louis B. Mayer did ask his employees to take a massive pay cut for eight weeks and then

582
00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:23,320
not pay them back.

583
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:24,320
Amazing.

584
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:25,320
What a guy.

585
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,120
He did help refugees escape fascism.

586
00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:28,120
Did he actually?

587
00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:29,320
Was that, that bit was true?

588
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,720
He helped a hundred Jewish people escape.

589
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,600
We don't know the actual number and he would often play it down.

590
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,120
So it could be, it's multiple.

591
00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:41,400
We just don't know how many multiple.

592
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,120
What an absolute f***ing hero.

593
00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:49,120
MGM did ideate, create and start fake election newsreels.

594
00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:50,400
I've actually watched one.

595
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,680
The one that they depict in the film is on YouTube.

596
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:53,680
Okay.

597
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,680
So we're in our lovely discord.

598
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:57,840
We'll have a link to it there in the references section.

599
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,600
So I'll paste that in soon as we're done recording.

600
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:01,600
Yeah, please.

601
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:08,960
You can go see the original fake news political attack ads that MGM created in this era.

602
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:13,640
However, we don't know if Mankiewicz was the guy who came up with the idea.

603
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:18,440
It's more of a contraction of the idea that he came up with the Wizard of Oz special effect

604
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:24,240
and trying to sort of tidy the story rather than bring it out seven or eight facts.

605
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,440
Let's merge them together into ones that inform the character.

606
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:27,440
Got you, got you, got you.

607
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,640
It's smart though, because I mean, this film's already like heavy enough.

608
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,360
The dialogue is dense.

609
00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:34,360
It is.

610
00:25:34,360 --> 00:25:35,360
And riddled with like...

611
00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:39,400
Very clever, very beautiful, very written dialogue like you'd have in the forties and

612
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:40,400
fifties.

613
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:41,400
Yes, you would.

614
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,280
But it's also written in a way that's very specific to Citizen Kane.

615
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:46,880
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

616
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:52,280
So without seeing Citizen Kane, this film is a lot of waffle in a short amount of time.

617
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,560
I mean, it's two hours 15, feels like four, but like...

618
00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:01,200
Yeah, this was the exact problem I had when I first watched it.

619
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,360
Watching it with Citizen Kane in memory, it's exactly that.

620
00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:06,960
I just went, this is waffle.

621
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:07,960
I don't care.

622
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,600
Because I wasn't seeing the loving recreations.

623
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:12,920
I wasn't seeing the nods.

624
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,600
I wasn't seeing the clever remixing of ideas.

625
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,320
I was just going, I don't really care.

626
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,000
Yeah, no, I understand that.

627
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:28,160
I think my favourite take from this whole film is the political landscape of 1930s Hollywood,

628
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:36,960
of early Hollywood, was an absolute wild west of multi-millionaires just out to absolutely

629
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,520
ruin the lives of their loyal employees that help them make these films.

630
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,720
Sorry, are you talking about today or...?

631
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:43,720
Yes.

632
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,560
Oh no, wait, back then you mean?

633
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:48,560
Back then.

634
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:49,560
Yeah, nothing's changed.

635
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:50,560
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

636
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:57,600
Honestly, there is just a full loose undercurrent of absolute country afoot and the mistrust

637
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:02,080
between the executives and the writers is incredible.

638
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:09,600
But there's also this really weird juxtaposition of everyone involved in every situation is

639
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:14,880
continuously fighting the question, what other option do I have right now?

640
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:15,880
Right, right, right.

641
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,720
Because back in this day, MGM are the titans, right?

642
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,640
They are the titans of industry.

643
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:26,360
Now they've got a TV channel where they screen old movies, you know what I mean?

644
00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:27,360
And they're nothing.

645
00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:28,360
100%.

646
00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:32,680
And you've got Paramount and Universal, who are these tiny fish in a massive ocean and

647
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:37,160
they're desperately trying to wrangle in these loose canon writers that are like, come on

648
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:38,640
boys, please give us something.

649
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,120
We are desperate for anything.

650
00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:43,760
And it's like, we don't make cheap horror flicks, Universal do.

651
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,440
And I was sitting there looking at my Frankenstein collectibles, looking at my box sets of Universal

652
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,360
Monsters, looking at my Creature of the Blue Lagoon special edition Blu-ray box set.

653
00:27:52,360 --> 00:27:59,560
And I'm like, if they had any inkling of what they were doing back in the 30s, holy, can

654
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:00,560
you imagine that?

655
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,040
Yeah, but a hundred years from now, some dickhead in Telford is going to have four different

656
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:05,680
copies of Frankenstein.

657
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:06,680
Because why not?

658
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,600
Do you know what I mean?

659
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,760
This whole thing, the political landscape back then was a wild west of millionaires.

660
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,120
I loved every second of it.

661
00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:17,360
I had no idea that it was as cutthroat as it is.

662
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:21,880
And it took me back to my sales days where everything was sort of like super cutthroat

663
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:22,880
and you act immediately.

664
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,360
And if you don't, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're in the room, you're in the room and you get

665
00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:27,360
what you need.

666
00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:28,360
If you're not in the room, you don't get anything.

667
00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:29,360
That's it.

668
00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:30,360
I thought I was a badass.

669
00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:31,360
You will be.

670
00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:32,360
You know what I mean?

671
00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:33,360
And that's all these boys.

672
00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:35,800
You're a 1939 film executive.

673
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,440
Dude, I was, I was, that was like my idol.

674
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:39,440
You know what I mean?

675
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:40,440
I was aiming for that.

676
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:41,440
I was an understudy at best.

677
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:42,440
I was an intern.

678
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,280
I've got, I've got a quick question for you, Ben.

679
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,960
Do you like hot long sausage down your greedy throat?

680
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,000
Are you flirting with me, boy?

681
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,160
Oh, I know you do.

682
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,720
I'd like to talk about the sponsor of this week's episode.

683
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:55,720
Okay.

684
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:56,720
JL Butchers.

685
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:57,960
You want award winning meat in your mouth?

686
00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:58,960
Yes, please.

687
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,000
JL Butchers was Surrey's butcher of the year 2019.

688
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:08,640
Berkshires best butcher 2023 and every movie ever's best buds for all of our protein needs.

689
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:09,960
And we have protein needs.

690
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:11,560
Now I hear what you're saying.

691
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:12,560
I'm not in Surrey.

692
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:13,560
I'm not in Berkshire.

693
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:14,800
Don't worry, Petal.

694
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,440
They will slide their delicious sausage right through your letterbox.

695
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,360
No matter how tight a fit you might think you might have, they'll get right through

696
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,320
your threshold and into your waiting mouth.

697
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,000
National delivery for as little as 10 pounds and free if you're local.

698
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:34,720
Dexter beef, soy lamb, British lot pork packaged, by the way, I have to say.

699
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:35,720
Okay.

700
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:41,360
Excellently in seal fresh recyclable paper, minimal plastic, but icy as all hell.

701
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:46,600
I got mine cold as my father's heart and fresh as the pain of Trump's inauguration.

702
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,040
Treat yourself to the best meat you're going to get this year.

703
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:51,960
Ship to your door from JL Butchers.

704
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:53,480
Guess what I had for dinner last night, Ben?

705
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,000
Was it letterbox meat from JL Butchers?

706
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,000
It was.

707
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:58,000
Yeah, buddy.

708
00:29:58,000 --> 00:29:59,560
Guess how I got that?

709
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:00,560
Through the post.

710
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:01,560
For free.

711
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:02,560
For the podcast.

712
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,560
Oh, wait, what the f***?

713
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,560
You're getting sent free meats?

714
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,560
Yeah, from our listeners.

715
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:09,560
What the f***?

716
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:10,560
Where's my free meats?

717
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:11,560
I'm at the...

718
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:12,560
You're vegan, mate.

719
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:13,560
I'm at the gym.

720
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:14,560
I need proteins.

721
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:15,560
You're vegan though.

722
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:16,560
You got to eat broccoli.

723
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:17,560
I'm not vegan anymore.

724
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:18,560
Give me some f***ing meats.

725
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:19,560
You're not vegan anymore?

726
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:20,560
Oh, that was last week.

727
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:21,560
We just...

728
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:22,560
Hold on.

729
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:23,560
People can't keep up with your changing whims, Ben.

730
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:24,560
You're just accepting...

731
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:25,560
You're accepting post meats.

732
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:26,560
Wait.

733
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:27,560
A sponsorship for the show.

734
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:28,560
Yeah.

735
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,560
And then just announcing me into the advert.

736
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:31,560
Yeah.

737
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:32,560
I got f*** all of this cut.

738
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:33,560
I got nothing.

739
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:34,560
Yeah, I know.

740
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:35,560
Yeah, JL Butchers.

741
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:36,560
Get them.

742
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:37,560
Might do.

743
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:38,560
Might not.

744
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:45,560
Ben, all I'm saying is you weren't in the room and it's a cutthroat world, bud.

745
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:46,560
Hollywood, bud.

746
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,560
You know what I mean?

747
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,560
You really do live and learn.

748
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:51,560
You really do.

749
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,560
All I wanted was some fresh meats.

750
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:54,560
Yeah.

751
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:55,560
And what do I get?

752
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:56,560
Shaft.

753
00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:01,560
You mentioned it earlier, the music.

754
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:02,560
Yes, I did.

755
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,760
Now, I'm an avowed Nine Inch Nails nerd.

756
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:06,760
You are.

757
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,640
If you're listening to this on Sunday, which you will be because we never miss an episode,

758
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:17,040
just a quick heads up, Monday morning, 11.30am, you can buy pre-sale tickets to their first

759
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,200
UK show in years.

760
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:20,200
Get on that.

761
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:21,840
I'm glad you didn't call it a tour because it's two gigs.

762
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:22,840
And I was like, that's not a tour.

763
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:23,840
It's two gigs.

764
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:24,840
Yeah, yeah.

765
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:25,840
It's a world tour of two continents.

766
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:26,840
Yeah, I know.

767
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:32,520
It's like having Major League Baseball World Series, only Americans.

768
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:37,400
But I kept forgetting that the score for this film was buying Nine Inch Nails.

769
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:38,400
Okay.

770
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:39,400
It's not electronic.

771
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:40,400
It's not.

772
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,280
It's using period authentic instruments.

773
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:43,280
It really is.

774
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:44,280
It's jazzy.

775
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:45,280
It's 30s.

776
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:46,280
It's 40s.

777
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,880
When the music started playing in the beginning, I was like, I can hope this is Atticus and

778
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:50,880
Trent.

779
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:52,200
I hope it is so much.

780
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,400
And then when the names popped up, I was like, oh, I'm in for an absolute treat.

781
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,560
I'm in for an absolute treat because I do not know.

782
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:00,680
I'm not the biggest Nine Inch Nails fan in the world.

783
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,440
They are objectively the greatest band to exist because Johnny Cash said so.

784
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,880
And if Johnny Cash is going out of his way to cover a Nine Inch Nails song, you don't

785
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,440
argue with Johnny Cash.

786
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:11,800
Objectively the best band that exists.

787
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,560
He extincted a species of bird.

788
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:16,120
You cannot argue with that man.

789
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,520
No, you don't because he'll extinct you next.

790
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,680
But what I'm saying is, is I'm not their biggest fan.

791
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:22,160
They are incredible.

792
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:28,600
I am, however, probably the second biggest fan of Trent and Atticus Ross when it comes

793
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:29,600
to soundtracks.

794
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,440
Because I know you're always going to outnour me on it.

795
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:32,440
Bless you.

796
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:33,440
Bless you.

797
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,840
And you deserve to because you're a titan of a fan.

798
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,200
I adore their film scores more than anything.

799
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,040
The only thing that saves social network for me is the sound.

800
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:47,400
When I saw their names pop up on this, I was like, oh, nom nom nom nom nom nom nom.

801
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:52,800
Give me that sweet jazzy nonsense that I know is about to come spewing out in all sorts

802
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,160
of directions.

803
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:58,400
And the main direction it came out is in one because it was mono and it was mint.

804
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,400
And it was so good.

805
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,120
Dude, the drums in this, the drums.

806
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:08,000
Oh my God, my tits were like to point, you know what I mean?

807
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:09,000
Cutting glass.

808
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:10,760
No, I could have cut steel with this.

809
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:11,760
You know what I mean?

810
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:19,520
I can't sit and watch the girl with the dragon tattoo with the coldest, iciest, synthest,

811
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,400
emptiest, dread filled soundscapes.

812
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:28,280
It's like Brian Eno got depression and just moved to Siberia.

813
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:29,280
And then this is like...

814
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:30,280
It's amazing.

815
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:38,040
And like the idea of Trent Reznor sat in his little goth palace just with the drum set

816
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,360
being like, I'll just do jazz drumming then.

817
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:47,640
Yeah, all right, so explain to me one sec.

818
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,160
And I'm like...

819
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:54,200
It was one of the 10 Oscars that this film got nominated for.

820
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:55,200
Ten?

821
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:56,200
I can understand.

822
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:57,200
Citizen Kane got nominated for nine.

823
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:58,200
Yeah, I know.

824
00:33:58,200 --> 00:33:59,200
I heard that later on.

825
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:00,200
I heard that later on.

826
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:08,840
He was nominated for one more than Citizen Kane.

827
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:13,920
The soundtrack was one of the 10 Oscars that this film was nominated for.

828
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:19,760
Citizen Kane only got nine, which has kind of spun me seeing your reaction.

829
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:20,760
I'm actually crying.

830
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:21,760
That's amazing.

831
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:22,760
Do you know what that calls for?

832
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:23,760
A bit of anger boys.

833
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:24,760
Go on then.

834
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:25,760
No, it doesn't.

835
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:26,760
Don't put anger boys on Ben.

836
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:32,520
Right, I'm minimizing you again.

837
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:36,480
I thought about the fact he didn't win the Oscar and I can understand why because from

838
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:43,640
another soundtrack artist, from another classical composer, jazz composer, this isn't that remarkable.

839
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:50,120
But in Trent Reznor's catalogue, it's incredibly remarkable.

840
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:54,760
I was astounded how fully he committed to the bit until I thought about it for a second

841
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,880
longer and when is he not committed to the bit?

842
00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:58,880
Yes.

843
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:00,920
That's a really good point.

844
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:06,720
I was like, God, he's really gone for this jazz thing, haven't I?

845
00:35:06,720 --> 00:35:08,160
And then I thought about everything else he's done and he's gone.

846
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:11,080
There's not very many seven out of 10 commitments on there, are there?

847
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:12,080
No, no.

848
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:16,640
There's nothing where he's like, I'll see what I can do.

849
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:21,040
I mentioned earlier, this isn't really about the writing of Citizen Kane.

850
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:22,280
And I stand by that.

851
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,440
I really do stand by that.

852
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:29,800
It's a film about Hollywood, it's a film about politics and the way that storytelling affects

853
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:30,800
them both.

854
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:35,680
I mean, the black and white, the mono, the nice reverb on the back, the editing things,

855
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:37,800
they're nice little Easter eggs.

856
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,720
And if they were just that, I'd hate this film because it would be just a mosh.

857
00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:45,320
It would just be pointing at Citizen Kane and go, I love that.

858
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:46,320
That's my favourite.

859
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:47,320
Oh, look at this.

860
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:48,320
Isn't this good?

861
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:49,320
Remember this?

862
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:50,320
Yeah, exactly.

863
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:51,320
Oh, brilliant.

864
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:52,320
Oh, yeah, great.

865
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:53,320
Yeah, brilliant.

866
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,560
But there's a reason behind all of it and it transforms the film into more than a narrative.

867
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:04,040
It becomes the statement because by recreating the look and feel of classic cinema, it sort

868
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:09,760
of comments on how we use Hollywood to tell us our history.

869
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,020
You and I have done it with Citizen Kane.

870
00:36:12,020 --> 00:36:18,440
You and I have spoken about what Orson Welles was saying with Citizen Kane about W. Randolph

871
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:19,440
Hurst.

872
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:24,880
And that's become probably more than most in the public imagination.

873
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:29,960
If that guy who was the Rupert Murdoch, who was the Elon Musk of his time, people say

874
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:35,440
his name and in the popular imagination we go, I saw a film about him.

875
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:42,360
It's both a love letter to an era that he respects and a critique of its dark side,

876
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:49,100
like a finger pointed at the way Hollywood will simplify a story and tell a more politically

877
00:36:49,100 --> 00:36:54,400
convenient narrative that kind of becomes inverted commas the truth as we move forward,

878
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,680
especially as we get further away from these times.

879
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:01,240
We don't look at the complexity of W. Randolph Hurst's life and the fact that he was friends

880
00:37:01,240 --> 00:37:04,720
with guys like Mankiewicz and he was friends with guys like Mankiewicz because they told

881
00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:06,200
him when he was being a tit.

882
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:10,160
We just go, Citizen Kane, he was a nobbit.

883
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:16,400
Fincher uses the style to kind of underscore the idea that the Hollywood's glitz is masking

884
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,640
its horrible underbelly of corruption.

885
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,080
Corruption and yes men.

886
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:22,280
Corruption and yes men.

887
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,380
It's a propaganda machine.

888
00:37:24,380 --> 00:37:27,800
It's a big old propaganda machine, but we love it.

889
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:28,800
A thousand percent.

890
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,360
Dude, the amount of films that I watched that genuinely changed my opinion, even though

891
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,480
they are actually works of fiction.

892
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:35,480
Right.

893
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:41,440
And so making this modern film in an old style about stuff that still happens today is a

894
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:47,600
beautiful way of sort of continuing the Kane legacy of this isn't really a film about how

895
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,380
Citizen Kane was written.

896
00:37:49,380 --> 00:37:54,800
It's a film about how all your stories that you consume are written and the messaging

897
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,680
and the politics and the money and the corruption behind it.

898
00:37:58,680 --> 00:37:59,680
Enjoy.

899
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:01,760
Fincher's a demon man.

900
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:03,240
Fincher might be possessed.

901
00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:04,560
He's a demon.

902
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:05,920
I was thinking about this today, right?

903
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:10,000
And I was, I was obviously, I was a little bit worked up about the episode because A,

904
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:11,000
I was knackered.

905
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:15,520
B, I was rushed off my feet and C, I was like, I'm not sure.

906
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,520
I'm not sure I'm going to like it.

907
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:19,520
Yeah, same, same.

908
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:23,480
Sitting down to watch it was a chore and it was a lot of effort to actually just stop

909
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:28,440
doing what I was doing and stop making excuses and actually watch this film.

910
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:34,180
Fincher can literally take anything and make it something so poignant and so deserving

911
00:38:34,180 --> 00:38:38,800
of attention that it is actually witchcraft to watch this man work.

912
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:43,160
We've done, we've done the Fincher series now from his very first film of Alien 3, worst

913
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:44,800
alien film that exists.

914
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:45,800
After Romulus.

915
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:46,800
Eat shit.

916
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:52,160
And all the way through, you know, like his absolute belt is seven, fight club, uh, Gone

917
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:53,160
Girl.

918
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:54,160
Yeah.

919
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:55,960
None of them as good as Alien 3 would have been if he'd been there to finish it.

920
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:56,960
And then he shit the bird.

921
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:57,960
So it's fine.

922
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:02,840
But what, but then, you know, Pete, Gone Girl, and then we get to, we get to man can I'm

923
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,440
like, but why, why now?

924
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:07,280
Like why this?

925
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:13,480
And watching it, you can't help but understand exactly, exactly where he's at because it

926
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,360
just made perfect sense in his timeline.

927
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,240
This was the main, this was the main thing that I took away from everything that we've

928
00:39:19,240 --> 00:39:21,120
learned so far about Fincher.

929
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:29,240
The man is such a nerd that he can correctly go back in time to the thirties and do a better

930
00:39:29,240 --> 00:39:32,960
job than the thirties at making 30 cinema.

931
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:34,800
And it's like, I don't know.

932
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:39,000
Like he correctly went back in time to the seventies and did a better job than the police.

933
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:40,000
This is what I'm saying.

934
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:41,720
And then that crime is now solved.

935
00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:44,920
That was a cold case for how many decades?

936
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:45,920
Four.

937
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:46,920
Four decades.

938
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:48,960
The man is a wizard.

939
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:49,960
Yeah.

940
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:50,960
100%.

941
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:51,960
It's freaking me out now.

942
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:57,720
I, there is in no universe, there's no timeline where someone pitches me the story of the

943
00:39:57,720 --> 00:39:59,880
guy that wrote Citizen Kane and I give a shit.

944
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:02,920
It just doesn't happen.

945
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:04,120
But having watched the film.

946
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:05,120
A thousand percent.

947
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:06,120
I'm going to add, I'm an advocate for this.

948
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,520
If they made t-shirts for Mank, I would buy one.

949
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:10,520
That's the sort of movie fan.

950
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:11,520
That's where I'm at.

951
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:12,520
All right.

952
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:14,920
Not only do they make t-shirts for Mank, they make them.

953
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:19,720
Uh, official nine each nails merchandise for this film.

954
00:40:19,720 --> 00:40:20,720
That's actually dope as fuck.

955
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:21,720
I didn't realise.

956
00:40:21,720 --> 00:40:22,720
I was joking.

957
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:25,480
I thought I, I'm just, I'm going to, I'm going to mentally note that for your next Christmas

958
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:26,480
and birthday.

959
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:27,480
Yeah, that's actually amazing.

960
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:28,480
Mank merchandise.

961
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:29,480
Fuck yes.

962
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,480
That would be amazing.

963
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:37,760
I love the idea that you've got, you know, t-shirts of Evil Dead, Godzilla, Reanimate

964
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,280
a Mank Friday the 13th part three.

965
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:42,280
You know what I mean?

966
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:43,280
Mank.

967
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:50,880
The thing that sings in this film for me, if you don't say Gary Oldman right now, I'm

968
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:52,200
actually going to punch you in the tits.

969
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,400
Gary Oldman is incredible and we'll get to Gary.

970
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:55,400
Okay.

971
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:56,400
Good, good, good.

972
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,880
But the, the parallel and why I think this might be a perfect movie, a Ben Groves perfect

973
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:00,880
movie.

974
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:01,880
Okay.

975
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,120
And for the audience who've just joined us in recent weeks, can you define what a perfect

976
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:06,120
movie is for Ben Groves?

977
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,200
I'm going to give Ghostbusters as an example.

978
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,440
Ghostbusters is a perfect film to me because it is a group of friends desperately trying

979
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:16,480
to make it in an industry that they're ridiculed, not taken seriously and they're up against

980
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,000
every sort of clock going.

981
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:19,000
Right?

982
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,440
The production of the Ghostbusters movie was a group of friends desperately trying to make

983
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,760
a movie whilst they were up against every sort of clock going.

984
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:26,760
Right?

985
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:29,800
And they pulled it off to such a degree because it was pure belief and they were living that

986
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:30,800
exact moment.

987
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:31,800
Right.

988
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:36,480
It's a story told by no one who is more qualified to tell that story in that moment.

989
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:37,480
Right.

990
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:43,040
So Mank for me is a perfect movie for Ben Groves because it's David Fincher, the man

991
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:50,080
who's told stories that are incredibly cynical, telling his cynical story about how corrupt

992
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:55,960
Hollywood is through the medium of a writer looking at Hollywood and telling them how

993
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,080
corrupt they are.

994
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:04,600
The speech at the end that Mank gives to W. Randolph Hearst is pretty much the speech

995
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:11,200
conceptually that David Fincher gives to Hollywood by the fact that this film is not funded by

996
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:17,720
Hollywood and he has not worked in Hollywood since because this film was paid for and bought

997
00:42:17,720 --> 00:42:21,080
by Netflix with whom he has a 10 picture deal.

998
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:22,080
Ten!

999
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:26,600
Which is why this film, this film made less than a hundred thousand dollars at the box

1000
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,240
office because he barely released it.

1001
00:42:29,240 --> 00:42:32,040
He just went, if people want to play it, they can load up Netflix.

1002
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,960
I get that, that's very shocking, I should have more of a visceral reaction to that.

1003
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,600
Just one second, a 10 movie deal with Netflix?

1004
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:41,640
It's David Fincher, we'll get four of them.

1005
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:47,440
Oh man, don't do this to me because all in my brain, every fucking failed pitch, every

1006
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:52,800
started project that's just gone to shit because of studio involvement, I got too excited.

1007
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:58,040
There's a list as long as my arse that's like maybe like six films.

1008
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:04,840
It's like, okay, so 10 pictures and he's done two?

1009
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:09,360
I have to double check the 10 because now I said it, I'm just checking.

1010
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:14,360
So he's done two, he did Mindhunter, which I think counts for some of that contract.

1011
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:15,360
Shut up!

1012
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:16,360
Mindhunter's great, don't...

1013
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,480
No, it's fine, but it's not a fucking Fincher film, so...

1014
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,160
Oh mate, you need to re-watch it, it's incredible.

1015
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:23,160
Mmmmm...

1016
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:24,160
Mmmmm...

1017
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:25,160
Is it though?

1018
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:26,160
Is it though?

1019
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,760
Last time I saw it, I was very, very excited.

1020
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:30,720
Right yeah, you need to give it a go.

1021
00:43:30,720 --> 00:43:35,560
This is Fincher leaving the industry and going, I'm going to go somewhere that gives me enough

1022
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:37,700
money to tell an interesting story.

1023
00:43:37,700 --> 00:43:40,160
This was made for 25 mil, Ben.

1024
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:44,200
That's crazy that it costs that little to make something this beautiful.

1025
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:49,640
Right, it looks incredible, it's an homage to everything we love about that era of filmmaking

1026
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:51,960
and it's for Netflix, chump change.

1027
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,760
So he's just there going, I'm out, I'm done.

1028
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,560
I'm not going to have another Alien 3 on my hands.

1029
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:01,280
I'm sick of all these cancelled projects, I'm just going to go somewhere where I can

1030
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:05,200
have an idea, get the money for it, get it made and move on.

1031
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,200
Oh do you know what, fair play to him man.

1032
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:08,200
Fair play to him.

1033
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:12,000
So this is a Ben Gross perfect film because he's doing what Mankiewicz is doing.

1034
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,000
Fuck all of y'all, I'm out.

1035
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:15,000
Yeah, dude he's killing it.

1036
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:16,560
He is killing it.

1037
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:17,840
I love this.

1038
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:21,800
Okay, well my rating of this film has just gone up, because it has to, because I've been

1039
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:22,800
backed into a corner.

1040
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:24,560
Because it's got Gary Oldman in it.

1041
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:29,880
Okay, can we just take a moment to chat a little bit about Gary Oldman.

1042
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,040
We're talking about perfect films and we're talking about definition of perfect films.

1043
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:39,040
I also have a definition for a perfect actor and that's someone that blends into a role

1044
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,040
so well that you forget that it's them.

1045
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,600
You forget the actor that plays it but you don't forget the character.

1046
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:49,980
Now Gary Oldman, off the top of my head I could probably name you three films.

1047
00:44:49,980 --> 00:44:51,600
One of them being Tiptoes.

1048
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:58,680
And that's because they're the ones I actively think about and go, that's Gary Oldman.

1049
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:03,120
There are countless films that I've seen and gone, fuck me Gary Oldman's amazing.

1050
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:07,720
And then the next day I will only ever refer to that person as the character.

1051
00:45:07,720 --> 00:45:08,720
You know what I mean?

1052
00:45:08,720 --> 00:45:09,720
Like General Zorg.

1053
00:45:09,720 --> 00:45:10,720
You know what I mean?

1054
00:45:10,720 --> 00:45:11,720
But that's the fifth element.

1055
00:45:11,720 --> 00:45:15,480
I didn't even remember that he was in fifth element.

1056
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:16,960
You just said that, jogs my memory.

1057
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:18,560
And I'm like, of course he is.

1058
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:19,560
Of course he is.

1059
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:20,560
He's in Leon.

1060
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,080
Oh my God, he is in Leon.

1061
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:24,080
He's in Leon.

1062
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:25,080
He's in Hannibal as well.

1063
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:26,080
Do you see what I'm saying though?

1064
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:28,040
This is what I mean.

1065
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:29,040
People always forget these ones.

1066
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:30,160
This is the thing.

1067
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,160
He blends into it so well that you just forget.

1068
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:34,160
Dracula, man.

1069
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:35,160
Yeah, Dracula.

1070
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:39,440
I think about that film all the time and it only ever clicks when someone's like, yeah

1071
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:40,440
but Gary Oldman's good.

1072
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:42,440
I'm like, oh yeah it is Gary Oldman.

1073
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:49,120
Francis Ford Coppola's Dracula, kind of ruined, was responsible for the one point that I don't

1074
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,160
give Nosferatu out of 10.

1075
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,880
Because the number of times I was watching Eggers Nosferatu and I was like, ah, Bram

1076
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:55,880
Stoker's Dracula.

1077
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:56,880
Right?

1078
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:58,880
And it's such a memorable performance.

1079
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,480
It's such a memorable bit of high camp.

1080
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:06,080
The only thing I can subtract from Nosferatu is that it's not Gary Oldman.

1081
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:07,080
Yeah, okay.

1082
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:08,080
No, that's great.

1083
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:09,080
I'll agree.

1084
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:10,080
I'll agree.

1085
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:13,520
But my point is, Gary Oldman is one of the perfect actors.

1086
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:15,040
Yeah, 100%.

1087
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:16,040
He's 100%.

1088
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:17,040
It's him and Meryl Streep.

1089
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:18,040
Yeah, a thousand percent.

1090
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:22,840
You could, Kevin Smith often says that Ben Affleck is his actor and if he was going to

1091
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:26,520
make a remake of Jaws, he'd cast Ben Affleck as the shark.

1092
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:27,520
100%.

1093
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:28,520
Because Ben Affleck could play it.

1094
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:29,880
And I'm like, I disagree with him on that.

1095
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:30,880
I don't.

1096
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:31,880
Gary Oldman or Meryl Streep.

1097
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:32,880
A thousand percent could.

1098
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:33,880
They could play the shark.

1099
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:34,880
They could do it.

1100
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:35,880
A hundred percent could play the shark.

1101
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:39,400
Yeah, and I'd forget it was them in a week and I'd just talk about the shark.

1102
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,560
The anatomically correct, not human shark.

1103
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:44,120
You want to play a game?

1104
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:45,120
I'd love to.

1105
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:46,120
Right.

1106
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,720
And you said, you love this era of cinema.

1107
00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:49,720
I do.

1108
00:46:49,720 --> 00:46:50,720
Let's find out, shall we?

1109
00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:51,720
Oh, man.

1110
00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:52,960
Let's find out how much you love.

1111
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:56,160
What was Marilyn Monroe's, this is a random Buzzfeed quiz.

1112
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,760
I'm going to fail on this one, mate, because all my shit is like 50s sci-fi.

1113
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:00,760
Right, okay.

1114
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:03,920
If the Incredible Shrinking Man's in here, look out.

1115
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,720
Okay, well, I don't know what the answers are until the end.

1116
00:47:06,720 --> 00:47:07,840
Okay, well, let's find out.

1117
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:08,840
Let's go.

1118
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:10,840
What was Marilyn Monroe's final unfinished film?

1119
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:16,040
Was it Some Like It Hot, The Misfits, Let's Make Love or Something's Got to Give?

1120
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:17,040
Let's Make Love.

1121
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:18,520
I will put it in, but it wasn't.

1122
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:19,520
It was Something's Got to Give.

1123
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:20,520
Oh, god damn it.

1124
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:21,520
All right.

1125
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:22,520
Yeah, I didn't know that one.

1126
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:23,520
I don't know any of these.

1127
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:24,520
Okay.

1128
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:29,280
Which actor married both Jar Jar Gabor and her sister Magda Gabor?

1129
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,720
Was it George Sanders, Gregory Peck, Humphrey Bogart or Frank Sinatra?

1130
00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:36,560
Just let me check my fucking 1950s marriage log in my memory bank.

1131
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:37,760
You said you love this, mate.

1132
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,440
You said you said this is your specialist subject.

1133
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:41,440
C.

1134
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:44,120
George Sanders, Gregory Peck, Humphrey Bogart or Frank Sinatra?

1135
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:45,120
Let's go Bogart.

1136
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:46,120
No, why not?

1137
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:47,120
Bogart.

1138
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:48,120
It was George Sanders, mate.

1139
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:49,120
Oh, yeah, obviously.

1140
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:50,120
Colonel Sanders.

1141
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:51,120
Of course.

1142
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:52,120
Yeah, Colonel Sanders.

1143
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:53,120
There we go.

1144
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:54,120
Between opening chicken shops.

1145
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:57,120
Which movie did Bette Davis receive her first Oscar?

1146
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:58,120
D.

1147
00:47:58,120 --> 00:47:59,120
Jezebel.

1148
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:01,120
No, it's Dangerous, 1935.

1149
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:02,800
Oh, I like playing it this way.

1150
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:03,800
All right, let's go.

1151
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:08,120
Who was one of the few to dance with both Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly in a film?

1152
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:09,840
Dude, you should get this one.

1153
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:13,360
Who was one of the few who've danced with both Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly in a film?

1154
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,440
Ginger Rogers, Sid Suresh, Eleanor Powell or Shirley MacLean?

1155
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:17,440
B.

1156
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:18,440
I'm sticking with my answers.

1157
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:19,440
I'm going is this...

1158
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:20,440
It was B. Sid Suresh.

1159
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:21,440
Yeah.

1160
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:23,640
This quiz is now, is Ben a psychic?

1161
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:24,640
Right, okay.

1162
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:27,440
Who never appeared in an Alfred Hitchcock film?

1163
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:28,440
C.

1164
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:29,440
Doris Day.

1165
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:30,440
Oh, no, wait.

1166
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:31,680
Give me the options.

1167
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:34,520
You could have named any actor after 1990.

1168
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:37,000
All right, A.

1169
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:38,000
Grace Kelly.

1170
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:39,000
Yeah, why not?

1171
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:40,000
Yeah, no, she was...

1172
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:41,000
Yeah, no.

1173
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:42,000
So I'm not a psychic on that one.

1174
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:43,000
That's fine.

1175
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:44,000
I'm not, no, no.

1176
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:49,880
Due to copyright issues, which of these silent horror classics was ordered to be destroyed?

1177
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:50,880
Okay.

1178
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,160
Was it Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde?

1179
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:54,160
Yeah.

1180
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:59,920
Nosferatu, The Hunchback of Notre Dame or The Phantom of the Opera?

1181
00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:01,680
Which one was ordered to be destroyed?

1182
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:03,800
Due to copyright issues.

1183
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:04,800
Ooh.

1184
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,080
You're going to kick yourself if you don't get it.

1185
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:11,800
Hold on, because now I'm on the spot.

1186
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:13,440
Was it Dr. Jekyll and Hyde?

1187
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:14,440
Sorry, buddy.

1188
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:17,240
It was Nosferatu, a film we've not talked about in literally years.

1189
00:49:17,240 --> 00:49:18,240
There you go.

1190
00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:19,240
There you go.

1191
00:49:19,240 --> 00:49:20,240
The only one...

1192
00:49:20,240 --> 00:49:21,240
See, this is the thing.

1193
00:49:21,240 --> 00:49:24,240
All I was thinking was, which one isn't on YouTube?

1194
00:49:24,240 --> 00:49:26,440
Okay, buddy.

1195
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:27,440
I'm going to say...

1196
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:28,440
Two out of ten.

1197
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:29,440
Ten out of ten on that one, mate.

1198
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:30,440
Ten out of ten.

1199
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:31,440
That's fine.

1200
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:32,440
Two out of ten on the psychic scale.

1201
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:33,440
You know what I mean?

1202
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:34,440
Ten out of ten on the aura scale.

1203
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,440
Ten out of ten on the effort.

1204
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:40,640
You've shown good effort.

1205
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:42,120
You've got up to speed with your shapes.

1206
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:43,120
Thanks, man.

1207
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:44,120
You're good with your animals now.

1208
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:45,120
Yeah.

1209
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:48,040
And now you just need to learn the things that you claim you're a super fan of.

1210
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:51,120
Okay, super fan A. 50 sci-fi.

1211
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:52,120
Quiz me off.

1212
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:53,120
Okay.

1213
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:54,120
Ray Harryhausen.

1214
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:55,120
I'm looking at you, buddy.

1215
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:57,240
Also, I'm playing at a disadvantage because I've got...

1216
00:49:57,240 --> 00:49:59,360
Hey, we're going to Ibiza.

1217
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:00,360
Playing in my headphones.

1218
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:01,360
You know what I mean?

1219
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:02,360
Right.

1220
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:03,360
So, in other words, you played yourself.

1221
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:04,360
I did.

1222
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:05,360
I did, I did, I did.

1223
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:06,360
I went up and down.

1224
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:07,360
Congratulations, Khaled.

1225
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:08,360
But it's because we like to party.

1226
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:09,360
You know what I mean?

1227
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:13,400
That quiz, my answers just went boom, boom, boom, boom.

1228
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,840
I violently, violently hate this.

1229
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:19,640
What are you going to rate, mank?

1230
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:24,280
It was going to be an 8.5.

1231
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:25,280
It was going to be.

1232
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:26,280
Right.

1233
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:30,760
But you have pointed out that it is objectively a perfect movie because I didn't understand

1234
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:31,760
the...

1235
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:35,360
Yeah, I didn't see it from the viewpoint of...

1236
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:36,360
Fincher's middle finger.

1237
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:40,560
Fincher telling Hollywood to f*** off whilst making a film about someone telling Hollywood

1238
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:41,560
to f*** off.

1239
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:42,840
With a script his dad wrote.

1240
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:43,840
Which is amazing.

1241
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:44,840
So it's a fat 10.

1242
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:45,840
Has to be.

1243
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:46,840
Yeah.

1244
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:47,840
Has to be a fat 10, categorically.

1245
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:50,720
It was going to be an 8.5 because it's gorgeous film.

1246
00:50:50,720 --> 00:50:51,720
The sound.

1247
00:50:51,720 --> 00:50:53,360
I can't get over the sound, mate.

1248
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:58,120
It literally, it's the most soul warming thing in existence.

1249
00:50:58,120 --> 00:50:59,120
Gorgeous.

1250
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:00,120
Incredible.

1251
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:01,120
How about you?

1252
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:02,120
What are you rating it?

1253
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:04,120
I'm going to rate this fetish porn and let me explain that.

1254
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:06,120
So fat 10 for you.

1255
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:09,120
Let me explain it.

1256
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:15,320
I know you for a fact are really into videos of women in high heels standing on spiders.

1257
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:16,320
Right?

1258
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:21,240
Now, if you're not into that kind of thing, it's not for you.

1259
00:51:21,240 --> 00:51:25,120
But if you are into that kind of thing, there's very, very little of it about.

1260
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:26,120
Okay.

1261
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:27,120
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1262
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:28,120
Right?

1263
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:29,120
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1264
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:32,440
If you're not into Citizen Kane, if you are one of the many people who didn't listen to

1265
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,680
our last episode because you don't want to watch Citizen Kane.

1266
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:37,480
There's plenty of you.

1267
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:38,480
Right.

1268
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:39,720
Thank you.

1269
00:51:39,720 --> 00:51:42,520
I'm just going to say, skip this one as well because it's not for you.

1270
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:43,760
It's a bit late for that to be honest with you, mate.

1271
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:46,200
This is the sign off.

1272
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:50,840
If this is your kink, if this is your kink, there is nothing else like it.

1273
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:52,840
It's a fat 10.

1274
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:57,200
If you like your fifties movies and you're a fan of Citizen Kane, you're an idiot for

1275
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:58,200
not watching this.

1276
00:51:58,200 --> 00:51:59,200
Seriously.

1277
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:00,200
Like get on it.

1278
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:01,200
Seriously.

1279
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:02,200
Go watch it immediately.

1280
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:03,200
It's incredible.

1281
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:06,880
This is coming from me, like literally Beach Babes From Beyond, Hunter's Blood.

1282
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:07,880
I'm all over it.

1283
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:09,480
Starship Troopers cinematic masterpiece.

1284
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:11,040
Go watch Mank.

1285
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:13,360
I'm telling you, there's some juice.

1286
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:14,360
You know what I mean?

1287
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:15,360
There is some juice.

1288
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:16,360
There's some juice.

1289
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:17,360
Go milk it.

1290
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:20,400
If you want any more juice, go to JL Butchers.

1291
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:23,320
Their meat's really good and they send it to you through the post.

1292
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:29,440
They send fucking one of us stuff in the post, apparently.

1293
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:31,960
That's what sponsorship this was.

1294
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:35,600
Super happy I yes-handed my way through that one.

1295
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:36,600
Yeah.

1296
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:38,120
Ben, do you check the Instagram messages?

1297
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:41,840
Because you could have read that conversation at any point.

1298
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:43,320
You could have been like, oh, I'll have some too.

1299
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:44,320
Obviously I don't.

1300
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:48,920
The only thing I do on Instagram is tell people, if you let us help promote Toxic Avenger,

1301
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:51,560
I'll go and get a tattoo of your company logo.

1302
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:56,560
And then when people go bet, I'm like, shit, I've got to go get a company logo.

1303
00:52:56,560 --> 00:53:02,840
If anyone listening could get in touch with Cineverse, C-I-N-E-verse or the Toxic Avenger

1304
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:08,040
movie on Instagram and just say, hey, we listen to the Every Movie Ever podcast and we would

1305
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:11,800
love to hear those boys cover your movie before release.

1306
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:15,100
That'd just be the most wonderful thing.

1307
00:53:15,100 --> 00:53:21,200
That would be almost as delicious as a wonderful box of sponsored meat sent by JL Butchers.

1308
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:22,200
Hold on.

1309
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:23,200
Hold on.

1310
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:24,200
I've just fucking checked Instagram.

1311
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:25,200
Ross.

1312
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:26,200
Ross sent you the meats.

1313
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:27,200
Oh, this is what we do in her.

1314
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:28,200
Oh, I see.

1315
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:29,200
I see.

1316
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:30,200
Ben.

1317
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:31,200
It's the third message in.

1318
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:32,200
Ben.

1319
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:33,200
All right.

1320
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:34,200
There's pictures.

1321
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:35,200
That looks incredible.

1322
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:36,200
Yeah.

1323
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:37,200
Yeah.

1324
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:38,200
Yeah.

1325
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:39,200
Oh my days.

1326
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:41,760
That was cheese and Marmite sausage, mate.

1327
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:42,760
That's ridiculous.

1328
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:43,760
It was.

1329
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:44,760
That is ridiculous.

1330
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:45,760
Yeah, it was mint.

1331
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:47,120
What an absolute diamond for sending you that.

1332
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:48,120
Incredible.

1333
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:49,120
I love him.

1334
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:50,120
I love him.

1335
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:51,120
Right.

1336
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:52,120
I think we're out of time, babe.

1337
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:53,120
We are.

1338
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:54,120
We are.

1339
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:55,120
Unfortunately, guys, that is all the time we have for this week.

1340
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:58,760
But just before we wrap the show up, if you've enjoyed this episode and you want to support

1341
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:02,320
the show, you can leave us a review wherever you're listening to us right now.

1342
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:03,320
Tell a friend about us.

1343
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:04,760
It helps us more than you know.

1344
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:06,680
World of Mouth is king, buddy.

1345
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:07,880
It really is.

1346
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:12,080
If you want more show, more content, and an extra episode every month, we did this month's

1347
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:13,080
about the substance.

1348
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:14,080
Substance.

1349
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:15,080
And we are very happy with that episode.

1350
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:16,080
Yes.

1351
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:19,200
You can support us over on Patreon for as little as a pound.

1352
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:24,040
It's literally just a paywall so we know we're talking to friends and can say whatever we

1353
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:25,040
want.

1354
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:26,040
That's all it is.

1355
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:28,280
It's a quid a month and you get all the extra stuff.

1356
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:30,600
Plus you also get direct access to our pockets.

1357
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:31,600
Yeah.

1358
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:32,600
Juicy.

1359
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:34,600
The messaging is big.

1360
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:37,480
Guys, thank you so much for hanging out with us.

1361
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:41,960
We love and appreciate each and every one of you more than you will ever know.

1362
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:42,960
Thank you again.

1363
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:46,120
It really does mean the world to us and to thank you for that.

1364
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:48,640
Spending an hour of your week with us, especially at the start of the week.

1365
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:50,000
We know a lot of you listen on a Monday.

1366
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:55,200
Ben is going to wrap up the thoughts, themes and feelings of this movie.

1367
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:58,320
Little pep talk, a little Monday motivational pep talk.

1368
00:54:58,320 --> 00:54:59,320
I've got this down mate.

1369
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:04,960
Well I just do what the Hollywood machine's always done and tell you to consume.

1370
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:11,760
If you're alone and you need a friend, just someone to make you forget your problems.

1371
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:12,760
Just come along, baby.

1372
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:13,760
Take my hand.

1373
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:14,760
I'll be your lover tonight.

1374
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:15,760
Whoa, whoa.

1375
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:16,760
That's what I want to do.

1376
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:17,760
Thank you, boy.

1377
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:20,760
Whoa, whoa.

1378
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:23,160
Let's have some fun.

1379
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:24,160
Whoa, whoa.

1380
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:27,160
I want to mourn it's me and you.

1381
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:28,160
Whoa, whoa.

1382
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:32,160
Boom, boom, boom, boom.

1383
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:34,160
Full circle, baby.

1384
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:56,100
It's just an actual comedy.