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Hello everyone and welcome to the Every Movie Ever podcast. My name is Ben Groves.

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And my name is Rob Macfarlane. Welcome to the show, a movie podcast where we ask the important

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questions like, was Ben Affleck better off chasing Amy than being her husband?

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Ooh, that's a good question. That is a good question. But I'm going to prove in this episode,

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that Amy Dunn is not even the biggest psychopath in this film.

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Oh, are you now? Cause I think I'm going to fight you tooth and nail the whole damn way on that one.

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Okay, let's get going. Let's get going. How are you doing?

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I'm good. I'm good. Just to let people know, this is the censored version of the show.

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Swear's will be bleeped, but fear not. As always, the full uncensored spicy Hawaiian version is

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available early in our Patreon for as little as a pound. And the link to that is available

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wherever you clicked on this podcast.

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It's a pound a month.

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It's a pound a month. It's a pound a month. But to answer your question, bud, I'm good.

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I've got beans. I've got legs, you know, I'm excited to hit the new year running. I feel

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like we've been away. We've had a little recharge and I'm ready to attack 2025, man. It's going

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to be our year.

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I'm ready for it. I'm ready for something. Ready for something.

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You got no beans.

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I got a bean. There's one bean in there somewhere. I don't know. I'll strangle it. You know what

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I mean? Squeeze the juice.

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I always knew you were a bean strangler.

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All right. Today we're doing Gone Girl. David Fincher's romance for the ages. Classic rom

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com starring Ben Affleck and Rosa Munn Pike. This movie is one of my all time favorite

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Fincher movies. I'd say all time favorite movies, not just a Fincher movie. It's one

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of my all time favorite movies. God damn. I can't wait to get into it. It's one of these

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ones that's ruined me on levels.

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Good to know. And that really brightens my day. So I just, I'm going to repeat you. I'm

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going to say today we've got one question and you know, some stuff is going to get folded

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into this. I've got evidence. You've got evidence.

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What are the thoughts?

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Your theory is that Amy Dunn is not the biggest psychopath in this movie.

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No, I think she is one psychopath in this movie, but I think there's an argument for

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there being an even bigger psychopath in this film.

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So when did David Fincher make this movie buddy? And how much was he given to make it?

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2014 mate. Scotland decides to stay as part of the UK. Gangnam style is invading the airwaves.

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Was that 2014? Flight MH370 is falling out of them. David Fincher is given $61 million

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to make Gone Girl. $61 million for this film. Fair. Fair play.

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Now look, I thought I'd be a mate. I know you've got one bean. I thought I'd save you

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a bit of work then. So I've written the whole breakdown for you bud.

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I've printed it out on yellow. And I think it accurately reflects how you feel about

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this movie, about life. It's just done for you mate. You're going to do the whole thing

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because I'm a mate and I've written it for you. And I think that there's not a controversial

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line in this.

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Okay. So Gone Girl by Ben Groves, age 36. Nick and Amy Dunn seem to have the perfect

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marriage. He plays video games and spends her money while she pesters him and tells

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him off. Couple goals. Every year on their anniversary, Amy stages an elaborate treasure

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hunt, a delightful game, which she can use as a stick to beat Nick for not remembering

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tiny details about their courtship. Feels familiar already. On their fifth anniversary,

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disaster strikes and Nick's mother nurse is kidnapped. Mother nurse? Oh Amy.

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I mean, it's your words mate. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Nick's

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mother nurse is kidnapped, leading the media to claim he might be responsible for not only

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her murder, but much worse, responsible for doing his own dishes. Can you imagine Ben?

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Outrage. Outrage. Outrage. Amy's side of the story is told through flashbacks as she writes

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in her diary, documenting all of her dull little woman complaints like, oh, that's rough

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Ben. He might kill me. And now the police are almost sure it's him. It's a bit rough

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mate. Okay. But in a shock twist that will surprise no one, Nick didn't break the dishwasher.

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What? It's your words mate. Instead being the innocent victim, a manipulative lying,

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arrogant woman, a tale as old as time. She staged the whole thing to make herself look

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like a victim. She is in fact a psycho bitch. Like all the women in my life have proved

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themselves to be even the boardroom gaming cafe ladies. Jesus Christ. Nick uses the previously

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hostile media to appeal to Amy's narcissism, a tactic that works surprisingly well. Honestly,

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give him a complaint and then the palm of your hand on hearing on on hearing how sorry

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Nick is. Amy does a quick murder and stages it as a heroic escape. Return to the house

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where they can stay toxically bound by lies, manipulation and a mutual need to maintain

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the public image. Couple goals. It warms my heart to see so many of my own romances.

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Yeah. Okay. All right. That was, that was brilliant. So Ben, you clearly hate that was

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brilliant. You clearly hate women. We've established that because, because you know, well clearly,

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yeah, all factual stuff that I wrote for you to say. But I have, I have a question. I have

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a question about that and it's, it's, it's a real question. Do you love this film because

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Amy Dunn confirms all of your long held beliefs that bitches be great. Is it a misogyny angle

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in this movie? Is it a bad, do you feel it's a bad thing that a woman is given so large

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and prominent a role as a villain? Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for that. What was the question? I

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was too busy mentally defending myself and being like, no, hold it in. The question is,

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is this misogynist or feminist? Yes. Okay. Um, yes. Well, I find it interesting because

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you're going to claim that Amy Dunn is not the biggest psychopath, right? And I feel

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like she's a famous female villain. I think she's up there. She's really like quite iconic

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in terms of the depths that she's willing to go to. She is and she isn't. She does a

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lot for feminism to an extent, but she also does a lot for misogyny to a very different

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extent. She's, she's very, very openly displaying psychopathic tendencies. She's also acting

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insane to a level that is terrifying for anyone involved. Absolutely. And the only thing that

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bothers me about this whole film is that if you, if you swap out, let's use Nick Dunn

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as an audience surrogate for me or you, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you acting in

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any way, shape or form as cool, calm and collected as Nick Dunn, or are you in fact sitting there

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being sort of like, Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God. I've got a point. I've got a point

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about Nick in that I think of all the carrot and the reason I've asked you a trap question,

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I have an answer already in that I do think, uh, Amy Dunn is incredibly feminist or I think,

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I think this film is incredibly feminist because although she is a villain, she is the main

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character of this film. She is as a character, she's complete and she's fully realized she

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has her own goals. She is driving the plot forward. Uh, Nick is kind of the prize to

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be one and she's the competitor in a way it's Amy's story. And I don't think Nick is necessarily

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as complete a character. I think Nick is what he is because the story needs him to be. That's

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interesting. And I think, I think a lot of what, a lot of the way Nick is, is not necessarily

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true to life or representative of Nick as a man, but is more useful for painting the

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metaphor for a toxic relationship that Gillian Flynn, the writer wants to paint. Okay. I

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do agree with you. I do agree with you. I think the film is feminist. I think it's feminist

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for a slightly different reason. I think all of what you've just said is absolutely correct.

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It does, that does feed into the feminist side of the thing, but the thing that sells

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this movie as, as like true, you know, female hero type movie is the detective, the hero

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of the story. The one person that does her job exactly correctly. She does it brilliantly.

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She's not swayed by anyone or anything, including the media, including Amy's bullshit, including

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everything. Including her own colleague who's like, this guy did it. Exactly. She's swayed

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by nothing. Her own agency to such a degree that she's not friends with Nick, but she

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gets on with him for as long as she needs to. She's professional about it. And then the

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second that she's like, I think he might've done this, no longer, no longer all buddy

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buddy. Yeah. She, she provides an excellent counterpoint to the insanity of Amy. Like

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Amy is an out and out. And I think that's another point that it's not mine, but the

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idea that if we're going to have women in cinema, I know you think it's a terrible idea.

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You'd rather they, they weren't, but if we are going to have women in cinema, that they

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have a full range of roles, you know, they're not just limited to damsels in distress or

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sexy femme fatales. It's like, no, some of them are going to be incredibly effective

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villains. Yeah. I think she's objectively a murdering sociopathic. Who, who else, who

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else are you going to frame? I know who it is. Just, just tell the audience who you're

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going to put in the frame for being a bigger psychopath than Amy Dunn and why. Nick Dunn.

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Nick Dunn is the biggest psychopath in this film. Okay. By a long margin. Right. A wide

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margin. So to come back to your question, no, I wouldn't behave like Nick. I wouldn't.

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Okay. There is some troubling stuff there. Yeah. It's, it's interesting that you, who

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I would deem as a sort of, you know, high functioning, relatively normal member of society.

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Oh God. With no psychopathic tendencies. Okay. I had to check that I wasn't psychopathic

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after this film because after the third or fourth watch, I was like, you know, it's got

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me a bit nervous. Like there might be some creeping things. How come? Just because of

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the similarities that have happened, not in the plot line, but more in like, I've never

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been more attracted to a woman in my entire life than after Amy Dunn returns. Oh wow.

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And it only got worse after each subsequent viewing. It didn't get, it didn't get less.

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It got the attraction group. It explains so much Ben. Yeah, it does. It explains so much

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about your history. So I had to do a psychopath test mate because I was, I was nervous. Right.

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Okay. So I read, I read the John Ronson book, psychopath test. Brilliant. Yeah. Great book.

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I say I read the book. I read up to the point in the book where he says, some of you reading

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this will be thinking, Oh God, I might be a psychopath. And if you're having that thought,

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you're not a psychopath. And I was like, well, job here done. End of book. Great, great,

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great. That's all I needed from you, John. Yeah. So that was good. So that was that.

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But Nick Dunn, he's the scariest person that exists in this film by, by a long shot. There's

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there. Tell me why. Because when him and Amy first meet, they have this thing that a lot

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of people I know, me included have done in the past. Right. Right. It's this idealized

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version of the person that you're talking to. And you have this expectation and this sort

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of image in your brain that, that this person is like, that's who you're trying to talk

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to. That's who you're trying to impress. Yeah. You don't know the reality of who they are

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as a person. So you have to, you do not have to presume and you have to kind of prejudge.

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Right? Yeah. So you, you're talking to this projection. You have these uncommunicated

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emotions that are rarely met because why would they be fictional person you've made up in

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your mind in seconds after saying hello to someone. It's mental behavior. Amy does the

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same thing for Nick, right? Amy's mask slips very openly and very honestly. Right. It's

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very, there is a pinpoint moment where you're like, Oh yeah, she's psycho. Right. That point,

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that point never comes with Nick, but his mask slips just as much. Does it? He's, yes.

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How he's, he's an idolized version of himself and he, he's desperately out of control. The

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second that people start getting a peek at the real Nick, no one thinks he could have

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possibly been involved in this crime until Nick starts showing his true colors. If you

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watch the scene in the police station, right. He's sitting there and he's talking about

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the homeless problem and all this stuff. And then the detectives are like, yeah, well,

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what are Amy's parents saying about their missing child? And it's like, I don't know.

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I haven't spoke to him. What are you doing? Yeah. What are you doing right now? And he's

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like, Oh God, yeah. Okay. I need to sort my, okay. I'm going to go do that now. His father's

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in the next room, right? Yeah. The way that he communicates to is very misogynistic, very

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anti-woman father. Yeah. His dad's mentally challenged. He's got some stuff going on.

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He lives in a care home and all this stuff. He's a couple cakes short of a slice. I get

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it. Yeah. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? But the way that he talks to him and the way that

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he talks to the officer who's handling him is caught very, very minutely by the detective

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and you clock this thing in Nick's eyes where he's like, I've just let slip. She's just

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sinned this. And he immediately excuses himself from that situation entirely.

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The context is that his dementia riddled dad has been found in the road essentially as

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grandparents are often, and has been taken to the police station. They've been trying

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to get a hold of him and they can't get a hold of him because he's being interrogated.

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And he comes out to the front desk and there's a way, there's a shortness and there's a condescension

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with which he talks to the female police officer behind the front desk. Yeah. That's really,

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it's not sort of pointed out by Fincher. Yeah. You kind of have to notice it yourself, which

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is genius because Fincher is getting you to notice it yourself and making it feel like

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it's a clue you've discovered, not one he's given you. Yeah, definitely. And this is,

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this is the point that I'm making, right? So that little slip of the mask there, he

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immediately, his attitude towards all law enforcement then changes. And for the rest

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of the movie, he's never, he's never as polite and charming as he was previously. No. No.

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And if you watch it a couple of times, I've watched, I mean, we've had a few weeks on

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this. I've watched it a fair few times. You know what I mean? Yeah. I'm sort of like six

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or seven watches deep now because it is, it's ridiculous how good this film is. The rewatchability

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is insane on it. It is mind boggling that he even attempts to keep it together for the

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rest of this. The little, the little smirks at the photos when he's in the courtroom next

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to a picture of his missing wife. And they're like, this is a search party. And he does

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his nervous little smile. I think Nick though is kind of at no point in the first act of

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the film until, until the twist is revealed and Amy is alive. I don't think he, unlike

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us, unlike the audience, I don't think he ever falls for it. I think at all times he

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completely fails to grasp the situation and he's just so convinced that it's Amy being

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weird or it's Amy being manipulative or it's, it's for some reason, it doesn't click with

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him the gravity of like, your wife might have been taken by strangers. She might have been

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taken by a murderer. None of that really hits him. And is that not because he's experienced

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with Amy's manipulation and just goes, there's absolutely no way that this incredibly unlikely

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set of circumstances has happened. What's much more likely given that she does this

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annual treasure hunt is that she's gone weird because she is weird.

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Okay. This all could be true and it all, it all could be very innocently being sort of

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like, ah, it's just, she's going too far with this one. Right. We're in a rough patch.

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Yeah. Yeah. I was going to leave. I think she was looking for a way out. This is the

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easiest thing for both of us. Right. Right. But you have to remember that he is none the

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wiser of what Amy is doing or where she is or any of this stuff. The only things that

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he knows are exactly what the police know. There was pints of blood poorly cleaned up

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in the kitchen. There was blood splatter above the wall. There was stuff ruined in his house

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and all he's bothered about is asking the police, asking the detectives to feed his

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cat. And this is the, this is the thing that I'm pointing out. I have to keep reminding

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myself that Nick is none the wiser. He is completely blind in this entire situation

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and it's not that he, it's not that he's acting like he doesn't care. It's acting like he

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understands everything that's going on whilst having zero information. Right. That is mental

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behaviour. That is mental behaviour. It is. You have no clue where your wife is. It is.

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You're trying to control a public opinion to make yourself not seem like a murderer,

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but they're so nonchalantly worrying about the homeless in your neighbourhood. It's like...

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But here's where I'm going to start my defence, right? Go on. Is when I said earlier that

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I think Nick is less complete as a character, he's less standalone. Amy, she's everything

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she needs to be and everything about her is consistent to who she is. I think Nick is

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more of a sort of narrative construct and he's, is what he needs to be to get us to

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the last act. Because the last act is kind of inherently ridiculous. It's kind of nonsensical.

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Is it? It is. In the sense that in the reality of the situation, this man's wife has been

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abducted. Okay. Well, that's an unusual circumstance that happens to very few people. Ah, but actually

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she's not been abducted. She's framed him for her own abduction and murder to get back

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at him for checking out mentally of their marriage and cheating on her with one of his

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young students. Okay. Well, that's really, that's that. Okay. Now we're in film territory.

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That's great. Yeah. Okay. Now she's seen him on television, forgiven him because she thinks

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he wants to try again and has now murdered the man that she's hiding out with and is

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now back with her husband, Nick, who knows that she's a murderer, who knows that he tried

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to frame her for murder, but is happy to stay there. Makes it completely jumped the shark

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into fantasy land at that point. Unless you look at the film metaphorically and figuratively

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because it makes perfect sense as a portrayal of what a toxic relationship becomes. A sort

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of play act of two people playing roles that they are no longer true, but they're too inconvenient

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or damaging to put away. Like Nick will lose his comforts. He'll lose his bar. He'll lose

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his source of money and he'll lose his reputation and she'll lose what she thinks she has in

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the, you know, there's hope in this marriage and we can fix it and this kind of thing.

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Neither of them believe it, but it's more comfortable. I know for a fact, Ben, both

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you and I have been in relationships where we're not in it anymore. We've fallen out

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of love, but the other person has kind of not done all that much wrong. So you can't

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break up with them because what possible reason would you give? They're just being the person

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they've always been. It's me that's changed. I know. And then you just stuck there and

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you're like, if they got hit by a bus, I'm going to have to give a eulogy and it's going

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to people are going to expect some heartfelt shit. I'm going to be like, well, and I feel

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like that, like that's, that's the, that's the situation that Fincher and Gillian Flynn,

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the author of the original novel and the screenplay want to sort of portray. It's like, let's

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set up a bunch of circumstances where you can watch it happen in a film and go, that's

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exactly how my marriage feels. I feel trapped by a psychopath who doesn't actually love

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me. That is a very good way of looking at it. Nick is, Nick is the passive. It's just

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too difficult. I'm too much of an idiot. And that would involve putting effort in and I'd

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look bad. And you and I have both been in that situation where we're like, I don't want

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to be in this relationship anymore, but if I end it, it will be effort and I'll look

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bad and I'll feel guilty. So it's easier to just keep watching Real Housewives. Yeah.

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I'm not going to argue with you. I think everyone's been in that position to a degree at some

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point in their lives, right? Right. And I think at least once I've been doing like a

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lot of work on myself over the past, you know, eight, nine months holding the mirror up,

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really taking a long card look and being like, wow, wow. You can't go gym anymore either.

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So that mirror is getting crueller. Don't, don't cause it's actually starting to hurt

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now. It's, it's, I haven't been to the gym in well over a month and it's, it's literally

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like, I know you. Yeah. It's a whole different thing. It's just going to make me sad. It's

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a whole thing. It's a whole thing. We'll get into it at some point when I'm allowed back

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into it. But you've been holding a mirror up to yourself going, Oh, I look like a butter

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puppet. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going, how immature do I have to be to not even respect a person

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enough to just go, I'm wasting your time. I'm wasting my time. Yeah. There is, there

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might be something here for you, but there is nothing here for me. And that is just cruel

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and unfair for me to not say anything. Yes. And it's, it's, it's 2020 like hindsight's

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perfect vision. You know what I mean? Hindsight's 2020. Oh yeah. It's incredible that like you

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can sit, you know, a few months down the line and look at all your mistakes or you can sit

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for a few months and look at all your mistakes and just go, Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. What

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I feel like right is so I've, I've read some interviews with Gillian Flynn. I haven't read

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a book, read some interviews with her. And she is obviously like you've just said, the

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author of the book, the author of the screenplay. Yeah. Yeah. She's described the story is centering

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around two psychopaths and then kept it ambiguous on purpose. And this is what annoyed me. Cause

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I was like three or four watches deep at this point. And I was like, Gillian, you son of

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a bitch, you've got yourself another watch through. All right, let's lock it. Let's go

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with that. Okay. Okay. Amy gives us the answer. I think Amy tells, tells the audience directly.

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I think she sums it up perfectly. Right. So also just really quickly in all of my research

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for this, no, no one calls Nick Dunn Nick. Really? Everyone refers to him as Ben. Just

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because Ben Affleck disappears into Nick Dunn so unbelievably well that people forget that

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it's not Ben Affleck. I can't imagine how easy it must've been for Ben Affleck to A

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have to pretend that he's in a failing marriage. Cause he's been in like five. Oh yeah. He's

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probably at this point. On B have to imagine what it's like to have media outside your

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door covering your failing marriage 24 seven. Dude, he's, he's lived this, he's lived this

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through and through. You know what I mean? He's, he's the man for the job. There is no

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other person that's better fit. So Amy, what she says, I think is exactly right. She, uh,

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they're both their best when they're trying to be worthy for each other. Yes. When they

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first met, they both bought, they both thought the other was perfect. They both worked to

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make themselves better for that reason. And that reason alone, they grew to resent one

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another for not being, when they, when they realized they're not perfect, they're not

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perfect people and they're not perfect for each other. And in the end, they both delude

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themselves into thinking that they can both go back to the beginning and maybe try and

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be that perfect person putting forth a little bit more effort. Or maybe if we try it this

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way, maybe if you try it this way, it will be different this time. Fucking hell, if we

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haven't all been there. Right. And I think, I think for me, the core of the, of the film

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is the dynamic of a failed or failing marriage. Yeah, of course it is. And what those characters

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have to be in order to make the most failed marriage, right? Cause it's almost like a,

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it's like, um, how are we going to depict, you know, you don't have, you don't have,

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oh, oh, there's a chicken escape from the petting zoo. It's like, no, there's millions

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of dinosaurs. They're all out. It's the most disaster. And this film does that for marriages.

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It does. It does that for marriages. It has to be that hyperbolic thing of like, we're

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going to, we're going to do it big so you can see the parallels to, to your life. There's

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a huge thing about identity in this and a huge thing about perception. And I think it's

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an interesting film for Fincher to make at this point in his career because it's essentially

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a film about storytelling. Yes, it is. It's essentially a film about who you think you

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are. Doesn't matter what you've done. Doesn't matter what happened. Doesn't matter. It's

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about what, who people think you are based on the story you tell them. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

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Now this is David Fincher's what fourth fifth serial killer crime mystery film. Yeah. And

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every time he tries to do something else, the audience like nah, Benjamin Button, nah,

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Benjamin Button was good. It was up there. It was weird. It was up there for you. I think

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for a lot of the audience, critically, it wasn't as successful. Benjamin Button did

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for autistic people what the notebook did for people wanting romance movies. Yeah. Yeah.

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Fair, fair, fair, fair. Autistic people, the romance story of the ages. Yeah. It's a love

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story. Yeah. But it's just a love story in it. No, cause it's an old man in love with

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a seven year old. It's a bit problematic mate. He's got the mind of a seven year old. Right.

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I mean, I signed me up. I've got a quote here where David Fincher says, um, the adjective

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Fincher-esque makes me a little queasy. It's a good thing to have an audience, uh, have

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some expectation of you because it gives you opportunities to subvert that when you're

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making a movie like Gone Girl, it's not a bad thing that people have seen seven and

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know that stuff can seriously go off the rails. You get to play with expectations. And I'm

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like, okay. So he, he knows he knows he's a genre director now. Yeah. Yeah. And then

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he goes on to say, but I don't trust anybody who doesn't go to bed at night feeling like

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a fraud feeling like tomorrow is the day I get the call and they rescind my ability to

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do this thing that I love so much that I would do it for free. There's a part of you that's

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always waiting to be found out. And I wonder how much of this stuff, right? Yeah. I wonder

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how much of this film is, is David Fincher kind of telling the story of a man who doesn't

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exert the kind of control over storytelling that he does. He's famous for doing a thousand

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takes. He's famous for like, if David Fincher could control what craft services were serving

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on that day, he would, he's over every department. He knows exactly, he knows every famous people

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say David Fincher knows everybody's job on set and how to do it and what it takes. Because

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he does not want to be caught smiling a little bit at the camera when he's supposed to be

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making an appeal for his missing wife. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a great way of looking at

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it. It's almost like Nick Dunn is the anti David Fincher and Amy Dunn is the audience

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just going, no, we don't like that. We don't want that. It's got to be perfect because

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he started out with Alien 3, which was the opposite of the films he makes now. Nothing

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was in his control and it was awful. Right. And he makes good films now. How dare you?

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I love Alien 3. But my last quote from David, his presentation is a weird, translucent,

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diffuse plastic hymen between what I want it to be and what you want it to be. And it

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feels like at this time in his career, he's really wrestling with like who he is and what

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his identity is. And the things that he makes are now finally being accurate representations

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of what it is he wanted to do. Yeah. And it's incredible that he's doing it with a film

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where the central, one of the central characters cannot get a thing about his presentation.

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It's okay. Yeah. That's, it's like oddly poignant, but also it's very Fincher-esque. It's very

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Fincher-esque. Nick Dunn is very Fincher-esque. Nick Dunn is making the Alien 3 of missing

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wife appeals. Yeah. That's unfortunately incredibly accurate. The whole, the whole media aspect

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of this film as well really fucks me up though. Right. Right. In a bad way. We're just talking

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about who can tell the best story and the presentation you're putting out and stuff.

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I've got a quote from Fincher here about this. Right. And he's put, people have become more

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accustomed to recontextualizing their shortcomings. The business of shining things up is no longer

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just the purview of publicists and chat show hosts. It's permeated to everybody. With the

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information age, people are on the cover of their own rolling stone. They get to make

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decisions that cast a better light on what they've accomplished. Right. I mean, when

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people are documenting everything and uploading it, there's a tendency to edit it. Oh, I feel

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attacked. There's not a lot of people going, got up today, was lonely, masturbated. End

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of quote. And he's bang on right, because this is, this is where this film ruined me

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the first time I watched it. Right. The first time I watched it, the trust issues that it

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gave me was I don't know anyone. I don't know anyone. Realistically, I don't know anyone.

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No. Even Margot, who's Nick's sister in this film, right? She's there for him through thick

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and thin. She works at the bar, which is his and Amy's bar. She's there. She's there to

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help him with quizzes. She understands their dynamics. She's the shoulder to cry on. She's

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his rock. The crutch, the pillar, the spine. The stuff that we learned that he has just

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lied to her about or kept away from her and done in the shadows behind her is disgusting.

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He's literally sleeping with one of his students in her woodshed, in her garden, in their dad's

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house whilst their dad is in a care home. And it's like, he's not told her any of this.

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And periodically throughout this film, she's like, you need to tell me everything because

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I need to be able to trust you. And he's like, I have, you know, what do you think? I'm a

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liar. What do you think I'm going to write? What do you think I'm going to do? Do you

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think I've killed my wife? This manipulative, psychotic piece of shit runs his own biological

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sister into the ground repeatedly and then just casually laughs it off whilst they're

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talking to Tana Bolt, his lawyer that Margot paid for by remortgaging her house, 47 grand

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in savings. And then he's casually laughing being sort of like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I fucked

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her in the woodshed just outside. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's tons of stuff that you all don't

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know. And she's sitting there like, are you joking?

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I don't think, and I think this is where this is probably my strongest defense of why Nick

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isn't a psychopath. I don't think he's interesting enough. I think Nick is just a cowardly,

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small liar who's lazy and self-serving and conflict diverse. I feel like he's a 20 years

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older version of the character that Ben Affleck plays in Mallrats.

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What? He's incredible in Mallrats. There is so much to him in Mallrats. It's unbelievable

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that you've just said that. In Mallrats, no, in Mallrats, he's just punching people and

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being a skeet. Exactly. And I feel like that's a 22 year old version of the 45 year old we

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see now who thinks he's all that, thinks he's an intellectual, thinks he's grown up, but

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he's still from Missouri. He's still from the back end of nowhere. He doesn't really

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know anything. And he puts on these fronts of being this intelligent, moral man because

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he's got nothing going on. And I think for him to be a sort of have intention gives him

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too much agency. I think he's just a moron. He's a piece of s*** moron.

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You there sir. A fall and right into Nick Dunn's trap. Right into Nick Dunn's trap.

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Because Mallrats Ben Affleck isn't afraid to stand out. That's true. He's not afraid

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to be different. That's true. Okay. I retract that. A very common thing of psychopathic

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people is that half of them don't even know that they're psychopaths. Right. 100%. They're

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very high functioning. They fit in well. They mask well. They mimic stuff around them. Their

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surroundings, they blend into the background. They do not stand out. Everything that you've

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just said about Nick Dunn is a carefully crafted, precise persona that he is presenting to the

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world that slips every now and then to show a very angry, a very bitter and a very twisted

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individual that is willing to lie, manipulate, to double cross and just not give a f*** about

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any of the fallout because he'll laugh it off with a lawyer that someone else has paid

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for whilst he's making his defence that his missing wife is in fact a dickhead. That is

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the only thing. There is a scene in this film where Andy, the girl that Nick Dunn is cheating

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on Amy with, comes forward to the media in front of Amy's parents, in front of the world

381
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:10,400
and says, I had an affair with Nick Dunn. I feel awful about it. I believe that Nick

382
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:17,140
had something to do with Amy's disappearance, which I never really understood as to why

383
00:34:17,140 --> 00:34:22,800
she would do that at that exact moment. Right. Then the fourth or fifth watch through, I

384
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:29,720
realised that Andy shows up a little inebriated to Margo's house and it's all like hush hush

385
00:34:29,720 --> 00:34:33,400
and, oh, I thought you said you were going to leave her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Divorce. You

386
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:38,120
were going to come be with me. And he's all like, don't you ever say that aloud ever again.

387
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:42,760
Do not repeat anything that you've just said. And then proceeds to have sex with her in

388
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,920
his sister's house, in his sister's house, on his sister's furniture whilst his sister

389
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,440
is asleep at the bottom of the hall whilst his wife is missing, whilst he's none the

390
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:56,920
wiser of whether she is actually missing or not. He's just going, nah, she's a dick. She's

391
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:01,440
weird. She's pulling a weird one. And then Andy, after a few days goes to a vigil and

392
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:07,360
is like, hold on a sec. So he's just out and out lying to my face so that we sleep together.

393
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:11,480
And then he's up there on this stage, pleading to the world that his wife's missing. Oh my

394
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:16,320
God. I love her so much. You know, this is the worst thing that's ever happened to me.

395
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,600
We saw through this sort of like facade. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That's bad. As did many

396
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,440
other people. And the second that this stuff starts happening, people around him will come

397
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:29,600
forward with things. But when Andy comes forward and he's like, I had an affair with Nick Dunn,

398
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:34,640
I now think he 100% has something to do with the disappearance of Amy. What does he do?

399
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:39,560
It hits the news hits just as he's about to do an interview to try and clear his name

400
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:48,040
that he's been rehearsing for days. Right. Tannable very, very, very famous, very good

401
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:52,240
at what he does. Possibly the best of what he does. Defense lawyer is like, pull out

402
00:35:52,240 --> 00:35:57,160
of this immediately. You cannot come back from this. Bow out of it right now. No, I'm

403
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:03,440
good. No, I got this. I'm fine. Don't worry about it. No, no, no, no, no. It's fine guys,

404
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,320
guys, guys, guys. It's fine. It's fine. Just, you know, just let me cook. Let me cook. Even

405
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:11,760
his sisters look at him like, what are you doing, bud? What are you doing? This is that

406
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,840
and then he nails it. He nails it. He nails it. Do you want to know? Because he can just,

407
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:21,420
he can just mask. He can just present himself in this weird. He has this insane manipulative

408
00:36:21,420 --> 00:36:27,320
ability to just be whoever he needs to be. He's a salesman. I don't, I don't think he

409
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:32,640
does. We don't see the interview. Importantly, we don't see the interview. And I don't think,

410
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:38,560
I don't necessarily think that he does some incredible Machiavellian bit of manipulation

411
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,320
where he suddenly turns into a different guy and swings it. I don't think it's a heroic

412
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:47,240
effort. I think it's a normal effort. And I think what the, what the point is, is that

413
00:36:47,240 --> 00:36:53,320
the media in this film, as long as they've got something to talk about, as long as there's

414
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:59,200
an angle and I feel like what this film is kind of portraying is that they've had a week

415
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:05,000
of painting him as a bad guy and they've kind of run out of content on that angle. I mean,

416
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:10,280
all it takes the media is one interview with him looking a bit sad and going cause I miss

417
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:15,320
her and I love her. Right. And they go, Oh guys, guys, now we can make a week's worth

418
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:20,440
of content about how we were wrong. I agree to an extent demonstrates the weakness of

419
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:25,120
the media, not the strength of Nick. I understand what you're saying. I'm going to, I'm going

420
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:29,920
to have to disagree. Right. Because again, we know everything from Amy's side as well

421
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:36,040
at this point. Nick does not, the media do not. Everyone is still certain that Amy's

422
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:41,320
dead and they were actively pushing for the death penalty moments before the interview.

423
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:50,720
It's infuriating me that I'm looking at Nick and going, definite psychopath. He is 1000%

424
00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:58,040
this crippled, evil, maniacal, manipulative piece of s*** just incredibly well. He's dressed

425
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,680
well. He's good looking. He presents himself in such a way where it's like, God, he's a

426
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:08,200
good guy. Okay. There is that weird bit. There is that weird bit where they're in the car.

427
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:12,760
He's just done the interview. They're talking about how we smashed it. They're like, dude,

428
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:17,720
don't be callous. Don't be like, don't over-celebrate this. Yeah. And he then immediately, normal

429
00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:22,280
people would do that. Right. And then he then immediately compliments Andy, the young student

430
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:26,640
who's out at him as having an affair. She's a good girl. She's a good person in a way

431
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:34,200
that it's okay. Okay. Mad that in it. Mad that. Because that's like a unnecessarily

432
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:40,640
selfless thing to do having just been criticized for being selfish. Yeah. You know, like sometimes

433
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:47,240
when you're in competition with someone and you come out on top, you win. Yeah. You get

434
00:38:47,240 --> 00:38:50,000
first place, but you're like, God, they put up a good fight though. Didn't they? That

435
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,640
was a good effort from second place. Yeah. You want to virtue signal a little bit. Yeah.

436
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,120
They've fully earned that silver medal. Yeah. So you just use it as a game. It's just all

437
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:02,920
a big game, all a big game. Who can look best? Who can tell the best story? Trial by TV,

438
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:10,960
innocent until proven guilty. No. Okay. If he is a psychopath though, he's the boring

439
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:18,960
kind and I feel like psychopaths get a bad rap, right? You get the funsies kind. You

440
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:23,480
do. And out of those ones, you get great horror franchises. None of which I've seen, I've

441
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:29,040
heard good things about. My best mate Ben, he's a big fan of Halloween the 13th and all

442
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:35,720
them sort of ones, you know, Freddie versus Chuckie and, yeah. But anyway, they're the

443
00:39:35,720 --> 00:39:42,400
funsies psychopaths. And then you get the boring ones who just run companies and have

444
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,880
got no problem firing 20,000 people. Sure. Cause they just don't feel for them. You know?

445
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,960
Sure. They're like, the business needs it. Gone. Sure. Or, you know, someone comes up

446
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:55,000
and they go, Oh, I really, I really need this health insurance. And they're like, yeah,

447
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:59,360
but you've got cancer. So we're going to cancel it cause that's expensive. Sure. Like those

448
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:04,400
are the boring kind of psychopaths and Nick, Nick, if he is a psychopath, he's one of them.

449
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:09,920
Cause the only thing he uses his psychopathy to do is make his life easier. Yeah. He's

450
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:15,360
got no ambition and no ideas. He's just, whatever gets him on the sofa playing battlefield again

451
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:19,320
quickest. Yeah. That's the ambition. The ambition is an easy life. The ambition is the easy

452
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:23,520
road that takes minimal resistance. That's the map. That's the ambition. And the man

453
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:30,280
that you're describing in your boring kind is Patrick Bateman, American psycho. So Patrick

454
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:37,600
at least has the imagination to imagine being a fun psychopath. Spoilers, but, but, but

455
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,280
what I'm saying is, is that I don't think that you are correct. They are the boring

456
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:47,240
kind. Right. Thank you. I mean, like, yeah, good for you. It's a, you know, 14, 500 company.

457
00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:55,680
Right. Oh gosh. Who cares? The, the only issue that I have is I think Finch's accidentally

458
00:40:55,680 --> 00:41:01,840
made one of the greatest horror movies of all time, but also one of the best date movies

459
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:07,240
of all time. No, Ben, no, come on. This is, this is the perfect date movie. How? And the

460
00:41:07,240 --> 00:41:14,960
reason is Ben Affleck plays Nick Dunn as one of the most terrifying types of psychopaths

461
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:20,680
that exist. The boring kind. You can say the boring kind. That's fine. That's fine. Yeah.

462
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:30,640
To me, Nick Dunn is so predatory to appear docile and oh woe is me. I'm always the victim

463
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:37,120
and Nick Harumph whilst simultaneously manipulating every situation that he's in, every relationship

464
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:45,560
he's ever touched. Every scenario that his name is ever uttered is wildly vastly manipulated

465
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:51,780
and skewed in such a way that he will always come out looking favorable. That terrifies

466
00:41:51,780 --> 00:41:58,000
me because the fact that Amy is so outspoken, she's at least honest with it. She's at least

467
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:03,320
open about it. At least she's fun. I'm a full psychopath. I will murder someone whilst they

468
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:08,280
are inside me and then frame it as me being the hero. That was the bit you found hot,

469
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:12,320
wasn't it? That was the bit you found hot. Dying inside someone is like your number one

470
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:17,720
goal. What a way to go. NPH in Gone Girl. What a way to go. I would want that entire

471
00:42:17,720 --> 00:42:24,720
story etched out on my headstone. But not well written. Full of anthems. I want it all

472
00:42:24,720 --> 00:42:29,240
anthems. All anthems. And then? And then? And then? And then? And then? And then box

473
00:42:29,240 --> 00:42:33,760
cutter and then throat slashed and then? You're imagining quite a grand headstone, buddy.

474
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:38,600
Oh yeah. Right. Okay. Okay. You're planning on dying with memes. Yeah. Okay. 2025 is my

475
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:43,160
year, man. That's true. There we go. There's a bean. We put a bean in the boy. There's

476
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:48,200
one in there. But yeah, so he's the scariest type of psychopath. He's the one that's so

477
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:54,000
mundane and so quiet and so reserved that you don't ever truly look at him. So how is

478
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,680
that a perfect date, mate? Picture this conversation that we've just had here. This little debate,

479
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:01,880
this fun little, this fun little debate between two people that have just met themselves and

480
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:08,360
are trying to put their best foot forward. No, no, because that's unfair because they,

481
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:13,560
in this film, Nick and Amy Dunne literally at the start, when they're having their romantic

482
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:19,960
kiss near the sugar factory, which I have to just very quickly, early on in this film,

483
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,520
where they have their first date and they go for a romantic walk through New York at

484
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:29,520
night and then they stop outside a bakery and there's sugar in the air from where they've

485
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:35,480
been loading the sugar and it cuts to a long shot and there's just four bags of sugar on

486
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:40,440
the floor. Now I've carried those bags of sugar at work. They are 20 kilos. So what

487
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:46,880
they've actually done is they've walked behind the worst bakery in the US that's happy just

488
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:53,600
shit mixing 80 kilos of sugar on the floor every night.

489
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:57,720
Welcome to New York, baby. The secret ingredient is foot traffic.

490
00:43:57,720 --> 00:44:02,320
So, so they, I mean, the rats there must just all have diabetes.

491
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:07,880
Oh yeah, yeah. But he, they say there that let's never be one of those boring couples.

492
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:12,360
Let's never be one of those horrible couples that hate one another and she henpecks him

493
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:17,000
and he, and they have that exact conversation. That's a little bit later. The reason they

494
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,520
have that conversation is because Amy's about to tell Nick that she's going to give her

495
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:26,280
parents $1 million from her trust fund. And then she, she preempts this by going, let's

496
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:31,400
never be one of those couples that hate each other. Let's never do this. Okay. That, yeah,

497
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:36,240
that's out and out manipulative. That's one of those I'm feeling really gentle and feeling

498
00:44:36,240 --> 00:44:41,440
like really fragile today. I really, really just can't deal with anyone shouting at me.

499
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:48,360
So anyway, I sold the kids. Yeah. I gave away a million dollars from our money. Are we going

500
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:52,160
to, we weren't going to have a conversation about this? No. Okay. Sound, sound, sound,

501
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:56,320
sound, sound. Nick's Max Nick's mask slips a little bit in that scene as well. Again,

502
00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:00,760
it's very gentle. It's very subtle, but Amy notices it and it changes the rest of the

503
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:06,200
movie. Okay. But are we, okay. So we're saying, we're saying perfect date movie because, because

504
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:11,040
what? It, because it acts as a filter. Are you joking? Right. Look at how Nick and Amy

505
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:18,400
start their relationship. It is the most romantic thing. Right. The bar is so unbelievably high.

506
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:23,960
She's the cool girl. He's the cool, charming slick guy. The opening lines are just amazing.

507
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:29,080
They sit and they play these funny games, the sugar, the sugar storm. Gorgeous. Yeah.

508
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:33,360
Two years later, nothing but solid. They gave each other the same gifts. They're so cute.

509
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:39,720
Oh my God. This is awesome. Even the proposal, man, the proposal is insane. Yeah. Can you

510
00:45:39,720 --> 00:45:43,760
imagine ever being that slick in your entire life? I do reason. I've not even been one

511
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:49,080
iota of that slick ever. Okay. I hate, I hate to admit this, but you've, you've been wearing

512
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:56,020
me down. When I watched this scene, the proposal, I wasn't a fan because what he does is he

513
00:45:56,020 --> 00:46:02,160
does that classic move of proposing to somebody in front of a crowd. But normally you need

514
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:06,480
to see when you see it at like football games in America or on like in front of the Trevi

515
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:11,440
fountain in Italy. And I always think, God, that's pressure. God, cause what if it's a

516
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:15,360
no, you then you've then got all you're doing it in front of you say no in front of all

517
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:20,400
these people. What he does is worse. He does it at a table of six people. You've played

518
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:24,840
gigs and you know, for a fact, it's easier to play to a full room than it is to play

519
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:29,520
to four people who can look in your soul. It is you've done a lot of those gigs with

520
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:34,600
four people staring into your soul. They're uncomfortable. And then imagine somebody gets

521
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:39,920
on stage and he goes, Ben, will you marry me? And you're like, ah, I'd have set myself

522
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:47,360
on fire. Right, right. So I hate, I hate to say this. It does lean down the psychopath

523
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:53,080
route cause he's not thought what that's like for her. He's just gone, I want this for me

524
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:57,240
and it will make it harder for her to say no. Oh, that's a good, like, that's a good

525
00:46:57,240 --> 00:47:02,620
take on it. I took it the other way. I interpreted it the other way. I took it as Nick knows

526
00:47:02,620 --> 00:47:06,240
that Amy's putting her best foot forward and he's putting his best foot forward. They need

527
00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:10,720
to appear to be the perfect couple. They need to appear to be this, this grandiose thing.

528
00:47:10,720 --> 00:47:14,640
He overhears these reporters being like, Oh, you're not amazing. Amy is so much better

529
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:20,480
than you. Amy has done everything that you should have done. And he'll then step in and

530
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:25,400
be sort of like, you are so accomplished. You are so gorgeous. You have a world-class

531
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:32,040
vagina. How about we, yeah. How about make it, how about we make it efficient? Why don't

532
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:35,600
we make amazing names? Let's leave amazing Amy behind us. Cause we're the perfect couple.

533
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:40,880
And he does it in front of five people who are reporters, contemporaries who are going

534
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:47,400
to report this amazingly romantic proposal in all of their publications. And they're

535
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:52,680
going to, it's going to go out everywhere that the real amazing Amy is now even more

536
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:57,480
amazing. He knew exactly what the f*** he was doing. This dude is so cold and calculated.

537
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:04,640
I'm telling you, get a few watches deep. Nick Dunn is terrifying. He's one of the scariest

538
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:09,200
characters I've seen in years. I'm going to concede the point. We are, we're running low

539
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:14,760
on time and I did not start this recording thinking that I was going to be swayed on

540
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:19,600
this. I had, I was dude, the rage bubble that just hit me. If you'd have just told me 55

541
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:24,280
minutes in that you hadn't started recording, I was about to flip my desk. I was like, yeah,

542
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:29,080
there's one bean in me, mate. I'm getting in the car and I'm fighting that bean to you

543
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:37,000
through fists. I won't agree that it's a perfect date movie. I'll say magic Mike is the perfect

544
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:42,320
date movie. Why? Cause all the guys on screen do all the work and then at the end of it,

545
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:45,720
the film ends and they've got nothing to do with that built up frustration. But I'm there.

546
00:48:45,720 --> 00:48:49,440
Yeah. But you're nothing like magic Mike. They just, you'd set in the bar too high.

547
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:53,960
Bad boy, bubby lower it. You know what I mean? Absolutely not me. I was, I was blessed with

548
00:48:53,960 --> 00:49:00,480
nine inch penis, but that priest was arrested. So yeah, I say bad boy, bubby it man. That

549
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:06,600
dude is mom. I don't, I bet. I feel, I feel like getting the wine, getting the wind up

550
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:11,480
and then just leaving it and going, well, there's only one bloke here and it's me. So

551
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:20,440
it's not going to be great. Your perfect date is show people, incredibly sexy people to

552
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:25,680
get them in the mood and you go, well, no better option. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

553
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:30,440
That's not a perfect date movie. That's a bad point. I'm either way. I may as well be

554
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:34,520
blatant about it. Dude. See you're framing this wrong. Look, I learned a while ago. You

555
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:39,360
can't walk into a bar and go, what's up buddy? I'm hung like a moose because when you then

556
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:44,200
go home with these people and you're not hung like a moose, it's a disappointment. But hear

557
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:47,920
me out now, my dear boy, this is the life changing lesson. This is the life changing

558
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:53,400
lesson. If you can walk in that bar and say, what's up? I'm hung like an acorn and still

559
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:58,760
get to go home with you. And it's a bit bigger than an acorn bonus. Yeah. But your new game

560
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:02,120
plus in it, mate, they're not going to come home with you. You're saying this develop

561
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:07,280
personality, read a book, rub, come on. I'm dyslexic. And I read a bit of a book for this.

562
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:10,520
You know what I mean? I've got personality and I've got a book. The difference is then

563
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:14,640
you're arguing from a position of privilege because you look like Chris Hemsworth found

564
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:20,040
crack. I look like Chris Hemsworth. Arsehole has been burned. It's still a bit of Chris

565
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:25,160
Hemsworth. You're an attractive man, Ben. You're starting from a position of privilege.

566
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:29,960
Thank you. You're also very attractive. You know Ben, Ben, Ben. Nick Dunn yourself. Shut

567
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:35,840
up. You know what I mean? You can read a book and develop a bit of personality. You go,

568
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:40,280
it's easy because you've got natural advantages, mate. You've got three extra inches of height

569
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:43,640
on me, mate. Height doesn't mean anything. It means quite a lot, mate. When you happen

570
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:48,120
to clap your hands together and go up, he's yeah, that's cute as dude. Kids have been

571
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:51,840
doing that for generations. You joke it. I don't see any moms being like, okay, yeah.

572
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,760
Kids have been doing that for generations, Ben, but that's why we don't fuck them. You

573
00:50:54,760 --> 00:51:01,680
say that, but the priest, right? I am. I was blessed with the nine inch penis. Do you want

574
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:05,120
to play a game? I'd love to play a game. Let's play a game. I'd love to play a game. Let's

575
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:09,560
play a game and then rate the movie. Yeah. So we did a quiz yesterday when we tried recording

576
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:14,400
this and it was shocking. Uh, but that was the expert David Fincher quiz. Yeah. I got

577
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:18,280
10 out of 10. You got nine out of 10, but that's fine. I is 10 out of 10. You got nine

578
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:22,360
out of 10, but it's not what happened. Doesn't matter. It's what people think's happened.

579
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:27,600
Oh, see? Yeah. See. Edit it. Right. Yeah. I wasn't learning. I didn't masturbate. I

580
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:39,000
won a quiz. All right. So I found a new one. It took me 46 seconds ish. And this one is

581
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:46,120
called the what culture.com the David Fincher quiz. How well do you know the director's

582
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:50,360
work? Now I don't know how the website works because it just says answers at the end and

583
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:54,200
it has one question on it. There's, I can't find question two, so I'm just going to wing

584
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:57,520
it. Okay. See what happens. This might be a really short quiz. It might be good. Yeah.

585
00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:03,240
So how did David Fincher transition to become in a film director? Is it a, he was already

586
00:52:03,240 --> 00:52:08,840
a music video director. B, yes. He taught film studies. C, no. He had just finished

587
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:17,200
a media degree or D, he was a sound technician. Music videos. Yes, he was. The idea, the idea

588
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:22,000
that any, I've been a sound technician, the idea that anyone looks at the sound technician

589
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:27,240
and goes, have you got any ideas? Yeah. If anyone creative ever looked at me and went,

590
00:52:27,240 --> 00:52:32,600
what's your idea? I knew the session was fucked. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the ultimate creative

591
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:39,040
bankruptcy is asking the sound technician. I had ideas, but no one needed to hear him.

592
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:42,880
Bro, I've sat on boards of directors. It's mental. The fact that I've been in those rooms

593
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:48,600
is silly. Also, you're a psychopath. I figured out this, all right, Ruth. I figured out this

594
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,520
quiz. So I've clicked your answer. It doesn't tell me whether it was right or wrong. It

595
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,760
was right, but it doesn't tell me that. Okay. And it just takes you through to a different

596
00:52:54,760 --> 00:53:00,040
website that is question two. So join us next week for Ben figures out slideshow. Yeah.

597
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:03,800
It's slideshows, it's slide websites. It's a completely different website. Anyway, hear

598
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:08,920
me out. Nice. What was Filchers, what was Fin, Filchers, what was Filchers first feature

599
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:15,080
length film? Does David Felcher do all of his form parodies? Yeah. That's it. Was it

600
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:19,200
seven, fight club, alien three or the game? I missed the question, mate. I was too busy

601
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:23,560
laughing at David Felcher. What was his first film? Alien three. Yeah, there you go. In

602
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:29,040
Zodiac, what newspaper to Gray Smith and Avery work at the Sacramento Chronicle, the San

603
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:34,200
Francisco Chronicle, the San Diego Chronicle or the San Jose Chronicle? Because the Zodiac

604
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:39,080
killer famously did all of his killings around the San Jose area. Yeah. I'm going to say

605
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:45,320
the San Francisco Chronicle. All right. Well, we'll see at the end, won't we? How convenient

606
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:50,440
is this rather than just having it all on one page? Which of these music artists hasn't

607
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:59,440
Fincher worked for? Aerosmith, Nine Inch Nails, David Bowie, Billy Idol. David Bowie. Never

608
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:03,760
worked with David Bowie. Okay. Never worked with Bowie. Did Billy Idol did the video for

609
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:08,760
only by Nine Inch Nails from their 2005 album with teeth and the Rolling Stones? He won

610
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:17,000
the MTV Music Awards. Okay. Okay. Question five. Alien three was nominated for an Academy

611
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:21,160
Award. Which one was it? Best picture, best cinematography, best costume design, best

612
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:28,280
visual effects. Best visual effects. Indeed. I hate this quiz. This was the worst. This

613
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:31,520
was the worst. Now you know what it was like to try and watch pictures of Gillian Anderson

614
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:37,040
in 1998. Yeah. It's buffering. Dude, I still do that now. And now it's, yeah. So question

615
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:41,720
six is internal server error. So I'm an idiot. I'm an idiot. I should have gone. It's what

616
00:54:41,720 --> 00:54:46,520
it's like looking at pictures of Sarah Michelle Geller in 1998. It's fine. Buffering the vampire

617
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:50,680
slayer. Yeah. Damn it. There you go. Damn it. That's what caused the internal server

618
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:53,600
error, mate. So we don't know whether you got them right or not. Cause whatculture.com

619
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:57,400
is just shit the bed. All right. Well, I'm going to say, I'm going to say I got 10 out

620
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:02,240
of 10. I'm going to say 10 out of 10. Yeah. Well done. 2025 new year, new year. Hashtag

621
00:55:02,240 --> 00:55:09,200
blessed. What are you rating? Gone Girl? 10. 10? Fat 10. This is a fat 10. Yeah. This is

622
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:15,460
one of my favorite films of all time. I can watch this nonstop. There is always something

623
00:55:15,460 --> 00:55:21,880
new that I notice. Uh, Nick Dunne is the most terrifying character in cinema by a long shot.

624
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:29,480
He writes the fact that doing the research on this film, every person that I've seen

625
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:34,840
with a blog or like a magazine article, slip up and call him Ben instead of Nick. And these

626
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:39,560
aren't like, these aren't little publications. These are big, fully fledged publications

627
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:44,160
will slip up and call him Ben rather than Nick. And it's terrifying that Ben Affleck

628
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:49,760
has disappeared into a role so much so that people have just forgot that it's a character.

629
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:54,080
There's a fact about Ben Affleck in this movie where obviously he's read the script. He knows

630
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:59,480
what happens in it. And he gets in touch with Fincher and he goes, um, so this young student

631
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:04,040
I have an affair with, I've got a casting suggestion and Fincher's like, Oh, who? And

632
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:11,840
he's like, Oh, Emily Ratajowski, Ratajowski, Ratajowski, um, Ratajkowski. Uh, I, I think

633
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:16,880
you should, you should see it and Fincher's like, Oh, okay. Um, so Ben Affleck pulls up

634
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:22,240
the music video for blurred lines by Robin Thicke where she is in her early twenties

635
00:56:22,240 --> 00:56:28,280
and just full nude. Okay. And just goes, I think she's not full nude. She has tan underwear

636
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:33,560
on and sneakers. Oh, okay. Oh, sneakers. That makes the difference. I'm not overly familiar

637
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:38,520
with the video. I'm not overly familiar. Okay. Just somewhat familiar with it. What brand

638
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:44,240
of the sneakers Ben? Nikes. It's okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I only know that because

639
00:56:44,240 --> 00:56:48,400
I was like, that's a little bit heaven's gaty. That's a little bit heaven's gaty. Right.

640
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:55,440
Okay. Yeah. It was, it was a cult research point that I thought who else wears Nike sneakers

641
00:56:55,440 --> 00:57:05,400
and had that on repeat for about 14 to 15 strokes. But then gross. What are you rating

642
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:11,520
it? I'm going to rate. I'm going to, okay. When we recorded this, uh, the other day yesterday,

643
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:18,000
I was a bit yesterday, I was thinking about my experience watching it. And I remember

644
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:21,040
the first time I watched it, I thought it was incredible. I thought it was mint. I thought

645
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:24,800
it was like, there was not a, not a, not a hair out of place in this movie. Yeah. And

646
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:28,800
then I rewatched it for this and I didn't find myself as engaged because I kind of knew

647
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:34,280
what was coming down the pipe and there, there were, the film was asking me, it was providing

648
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:39,360
mystery for a new viewer that I already had the answer to. And that was kind of tiring.

649
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:43,800
I was like, Oh, I know David. Like I know, I know where we were going to end up. There's

650
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:49,920
not much for me here. Yeah. Um, but then I've just, I've been thinking about like the technicality

651
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:55,680
and this is the thing with David Fincher. He's so good at making films that talking

652
00:57:55,680 --> 00:58:01,520
about his filmmaking process is kind of empty calories because there's no drama. Like Christopher

653
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:06,360
Nolan, every movie he makes, there's some bizarre new stunt that he's doing. I'm going

654
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:11,440
to take the wings off a plane in midair. I'm going to buy a jumbo jet and I'm going to

655
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:17,240
drive it through an airport building and film it all on analog film. IMAX cameras. Yeah.

656
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:22,080
Wicked. We can talk about that for days. David Fincher turns up and goes, I made a brilliant

657
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:29,440
film. I came in under budget. The filming schedule was stuck to, to the letter and the

658
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:33,640
film's mint. And you're like, yeah, that's, that's difficult to pull much drama out of

659
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:38,080
David. Could you not just up a bit? Yeah. I made a film that went really well. Fantastic.

660
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:47,440
Good. Also, fuck off. And I, and so with that in mind, I'm thinking like it's, it's tempting

661
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:52,960
to sort of judge and, and Mark this film against other David Fincher movies and go, Oh, it's

662
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:57,520
a seven on a rewatch. But if I compare this to any other film, it's a, it's a perfect

663
00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:02,640
film. It's a, it's a, it's such a well-made film. So I'm going to split the difference.

664
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:07,000
I'm going to go nine and a half. Okay. And that's a very long answer to a very simple

665
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:12,880
question. Justified though. Justified. Just before we wrap up the show, if you've enjoyed

666
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:18,440
this episode and you want to support the show, you can leave us a review, but most importantly,

667
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:24,180
tell a friend, tell a friend helps us so much. You have no clue what it does to watch the

668
00:59:24,180 --> 00:59:29,720
numbers grow little bit by little bit, even if it's by one, that little word of mouth

669
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:34,880
has done an insane amount of value for our show. Sharing our stuff on your socials, all

670
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:39,480
this kind of stuff, like commenting. It really, really helps. Now, if you want more show,

671
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:44,680
more content and an extra episode every month, you can support us over on Patreon for as

672
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:50,640
low as a pound a month. One pound a month guys. Thank you so much for hanging out with

673
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:55,360
us. It's been an absolute pleasure. We love and appreciate each and every one of you more

674
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:59,800
than you will ever know. Thank you for the continued support, even though we've had some

675
00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:06,280
time away. It's been nice to sort of see the back catalogue be tickled. We've recharged.

676
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:10,240
I know some of you have listened to old episodes and, or stuff that you've missed or you've

677
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:14,520
sort of fallen behind. We've given you a chance to catch up. I've got all the beans. Ben's

678
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:18,360
got, Ben's got, have you got a bean? You got a bean now? Two beans. You got two beans. There

679
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:23,240
we go. And to thank you for spending an hour of your week with us, especially at the start

680
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:28,600
of the week. Ben's now going to wrap up thoughts, themes and feelings of this movie into a little

681
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:37,440
Monday motivational pep talk. Yeah. While I just tell you to consume. I say because Amy's

682
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:42,200
such a strong feminist character, I think we start looking at what she did in this film

683
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:49,160
for humans as a whole. You know what I mean? I feel like we can take lessons, leave some

684
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:56,240
of her book, if you will, for anyone who wrongs you. Let's say you go to the chip shop and

685
01:00:56,240 --> 01:01:05,560
your, your scallop is a margin, a hair thinner than normal. Frame them for murder. You know

686
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:17,960
what I mean? Frame it for your murder.

687
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:23,920
Do you like fantasy? Independent artists, dragons, dungeons and dragons. Of course you

688
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689
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691
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Loads. There's tons. It's all available right now. I got my shaker charm the other day.

692
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It's like a beholder. You know, from B and D with like this thing, you shake it and it's

693
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got the shaky eye. And when I shake it, the eye moves. It's dope. Emma will be appearing

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696
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697
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700
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:30,280
I'm Emma Lawrich.