1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:15,000 Hello everyone and welcome to the Every Movie Ever podcast. My name is Ben Gross. 2 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:20,340 And my name is Rob Macfarlane. Welcome to the show, a movie podcast slash mental health 3 00:00:20,340 --> 00:00:26,160 check-in for two broken brained best friends talking around their problems, but not about 4 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:27,160 their problems. Never. 5 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:31,760 Whilst last minute movies. So Ben, before we get to what we're doing, just briefly, 6 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,960 let's ask the more important question. How are you doing, bud? 7 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:40,440 I'm a bit ill. I've got spicy eyes and the back of the nose and throat is like prickly. 8 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:44,120 That's upsetting. I've got a bit of grey brain and I don't know why, man. 9 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:49,040 And you say a bit of grey brain, you've been an absolute bastard to me for the whole week. 10 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:52,880 I've just been like, what about this? And you're like, yeah, could do. I mean, what's it matter? 11 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:54,880 What does anything matter? You don't. 12 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,640 That's not what I've been saying at all. I've been saying love you every night and I rarely 13 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:00,400 get one back and that's very upsetting. 14 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:04,480 That's just because I'm, yeah, that is bad and I'm trying to work on that. It's not because 15 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:06,960 I don't feel it. It's just because I see it and I'm like, oh, he's gone. 16 00:01:06,960 --> 00:01:09,120 Let's work on it now. I love you. 17 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:10,120 Love you. I love you. 18 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:11,120 All right. 19 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,320 For new listeners, we're not a couple. We're just best mates, but yeah, I love you, dude. 20 00:01:14,320 --> 00:01:15,320 Man wives. 21 00:01:15,320 --> 00:01:16,320 Man wives. 22 00:01:16,320 --> 00:01:20,100 Honestly though, I've got nothing to grumble about. I'm really happy in my jobs. I'm really 23 00:01:20,100 --> 00:01:25,760 happy at home. I'm happy seeing all my family. This weekend was mint. We just had the quiz 24 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:27,600 at the boardroom gaming cafe. That went incredible. 25 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:28,600 That did go really well. 26 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,920 Yeah. I've got nothing to grumble about. I'm just being a mopey bellend. 27 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,840 Could it be that you've got nothing to grumble about and that is really upsetting because 28 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:36,840 you love a grumble. 29 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:37,840 I love a grumble. 30 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,480 And maybe, maybe now that there's nothing to grumble about. 31 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:41,480 Yeah. 32 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:48,560 You're not dating Hitler. You're not working in hell. You haven't got a collapsed lung. 33 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:54,920 And so what you've got left, all you've got left is yourself and you're still not happy. 34 00:01:54,920 --> 00:02:00,000 And you're just going, ah, I can't blame her. I can't blame the job. I can't blame my lung. 35 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:01,720 I can't blame this. It's just me. 36 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:06,200 Yeah. I'm just a dick. I get all of my fun stuff from negative situations that I'm in 37 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:07,680 and I'm like, yeah, but isn't this hilarious? 38 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:08,680 Right. 39 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,400 As a way of dealing with it. But then when there's nothing to deal with, I'm like, where's 40 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:12,400 my, where's my car? 41 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,800 You're alone. You're alone in the room with yourself. Just going, Oh God, the problem 42 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:17,360 has always and will always be me. 43 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,400 Oh God, this is lovely. What a lovely time I'm having. This green tea is delicious. I'm 44 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:26,040 healthy. Let's watch a very entertaining film. Yeah, great. All right. I've got friends around 45 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,640 me that love and support me no matter what. All right. Brilliant. 46 00:02:28,640 --> 00:02:29,640 It's heartbreaking. 47 00:02:29,640 --> 00:02:33,840 It's horror. I don't understand it, man. Brains make no sense to me. Humans are messed up 48 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:34,840 weird animals. 49 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:36,120 It's almost like you've got depression. 50 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:37,760 How are you buddy? 51 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:42,840 Yeah. I find this time of the year hard. I always look back on the year and I'm like, 52 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:47,320 what have I achieved? What's changed? I've caught myself as well. Cause last year, I 53 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:52,720 think, year 2023, we covered Nolan and that did gangbusters. We went from a small show 54 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,920 to a low end of medium show and I was like, wow. 55 00:02:55,920 --> 00:03:00,600 Lower middle class show. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then, and I was like, Oh, that's exciting. 56 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:04,120 And then it died off and we're like, that's fine. That's fine. Cause next time, next, 57 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,960 next little bounce we get, it will be an order of magnitude bigger. Cause we're now bigger 58 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:13,240 than we were. And I've just been waiting all year and it hasn't happened. And we've had 59 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:17,720 a couple of things. We'll get into it. We'll get into it. I'm in a reflective place and 60 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:22,520 I'm like, what, what, what have we achieved this year? We achieved anything? 61 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,200 Maybe that's what I need to look at. You know what I mean? Maybe I need to start being more 62 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:29,240 reflective. Maybe that's where the comedy is hiding. Yeah. I'd make a hundred percent. 63 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:34,920 Now Ben, not everyone likes everything. They don't blue cheese, the offspring offspring 64 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:35,920 of mint breast implants. 65 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:41,440 No, they're not. And breast. Yeah. Fine. Pineapple on pizza. Pineapple. There you go. There we 66 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:46,360 go. So if you, if you, dear listener here is cried pineapple, just a short bit of the 67 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,840 chat that might not be to everyone's taste and is less about the film than say a brand 68 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:56,680 new listener might need, but not to worry. The full spicy Hawaiian version of every episode 69 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:02,480 is available over on Patreon days beforehand with all the pineapple you could ever want 70 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:07,040 for just a pound a month. It's a quid. It's literally a quid. Right. Likewise, our potty 71 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:11,600 mouths are going to be censored in this version. You can hear all the bad words you like over 72 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:22,200 on Patreon. Like poopoo caca wee wee. Like there it is. That's what I'm saying is that 73 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,920 that's one of your favorite bits of the show. It doesn't matter what we're talking about. 74 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,800 No matter how cinematic GM we bring, you just saw, I'm going to say, I'm going to say the 75 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,640 C word and it's going to be great. It's brightened my day. What are we doing? What are we doing 76 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:38,920 this week? We're tuning back into the David Fincher verse with my dear baby faced angel, 77 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:45,040 the girl with the dragon tattoo. Why are we doing this Rob? Is it just because we're covering 78 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:50,440 every Fincher movie ever? Yeah. Yeah. Partly that, but also for various reasons, like I 79 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:54,960 mentioned earlier, we're sitting on a bunch of stuff that has not happened in the timeframe 80 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:59,840 that we'd hoped. Yeah. A bunch of stuff that fell flat on its face. This week's reel that 81 00:04:59,840 --> 00:05:04,400 we were both quite excited about. So it seemed by about 12 people liked by none of them. 82 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:09,280 It's about two hours worth of editing those. Right. Yeah. And it's kind of, I'm in a little 83 00:05:09,280 --> 00:05:14,480 bit, I'm a little bit of like a, are we, are we failing at this? Now I'm sure you dear 84 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,960 listener I've got some stuff going on that feels like it's failing. It's winter. It's 85 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:22,080 getting, it's drawing in the years coming to a close. The evenings are getting shorter. 86 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:27,520 It's dark at 3 PM. Everyone's failing at everything. You know what I mean? And like we're all, 87 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:32,720 in Fincher's career, I would argue there is no bigger failure than this trilogy of films. 88 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:38,720 Cause Alien 3 is divisive, sure. But it's also his first film. It's also objectively 89 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:43,640 sh**. It's brilliant. It's my favorite Alien movie, but like you can, you can forgive him 90 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:47,920 having a trip and a stumble, especially with everything we covered when we covered Alien 91 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:54,080 3, everything going on. But this is Fincher at his creative peak. He is king of the mountain. 92 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:59,040 It's an incredible cast and it's an adaptation of one of the most popular books in the world 93 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:04,880 at the time. And of the three planned films, this is the only one that exists. So in an 94 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:09,520 attempt to make us feel better and hopefully you dear listener feel better, we're going 95 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:15,920 to talk about how Fincher dealt with this failure or like her boss. Dealing with failure 96 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:22,000 101, Fincher school. Okay. And Fincher famously has struggled with this in the past. Yeah, 97 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:27,600 exactly. So we've got a lot to get into this week. Fincher's MCU alternative. The multiple 98 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:33,480 subplots of this complex film and how they all point us to the loneliest place on the 99 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:40,800 planet. Rooney Mara's insanity. Why David Fincher makes Benjamin Kenneth Groves very 100 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:47,160 nervous. Not Kenneth. He's stopped denying. And how the failure of this movie might be 101 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,840 the help that we all need. But before we get into all that, Ben, there's a very important 102 00:06:50,840 --> 00:06:59,000 question we need to ask. Where that man been? Where Fincher at? How Fincher are? Right. 103 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:06,480 Well, it's an interesting one because we covered the social network not too long ago. We did. 104 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:14,200 That came out in spring of 2010. This was released in December of 2011. Oh Jesus. Oh 105 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:19,680 whoa. That's fast. Okay. Yeah. For a Fincher film, that's fast. He was finishing up the 106 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:24,680 social network and ramping up production on this. There was a huge crossover between the 107 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:29,880 two, but he's not sat and had a rest. Let's put it that way. Ben, remind us what was going 108 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:36,480 on in 2011. Let me take you back, my dear boy. Come join me. Come sit next to Papa Ben. 109 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:44,560 Making it weird. The sleigh of mystery. Let's take a sonder. It's 2011. I hate this. It's 110 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:50,960 2011. The Southern hemisphere gets a bad case of the shakes. Leads to a near total destruction 111 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:55,120 of Christchurch, New Zealand. I did not think that you were going to take it this way. Fair. 112 00:07:55,120 --> 00:08:03,640 And the birth of this timelines Godzilla in Fukushima, Japan. Wow. Come on. It was a shaky 113 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:08,600 quakey time. Half the world got Parkinson's. How else was I supposed to put it? That's 114 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:14,120 the other route I was going to go down. Yeah. No, it's good. That's good. The end of tuna 115 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:18,280 could have been another one. Also is tuna fixed now? Cause I remember like after Fukushima, 116 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:23,280 we couldn't eat tuna anymore. Sorry. Sorry. Can't eat what? Tuna. Tuna. Tuna. Are you 117 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:31,040 American? What do you mean? Tuna. Tuna? Yeah. All right. Fine. Tuna. Tuna. I've always 118 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:35,520 called it tuna. Okay. All right. Okay. Now the shoes on the other foot. How the turns 119 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:40,320 table. I know why I do this. I used to call it, I called it tuna in Japan once and the 120 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:45,400 word for kiss in Japanese is chew. And it's like quite cutesy. Maybe you said the piss 121 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,680 out of me being sort of like, stop trying to sound cute. Just say Tuesday. And I'm like, 122 00:08:48,680 --> 00:08:53,200 yeah, yeah, you're right. Yeah. Yeah. My bad. I know we're British mates. Tuesday. Tuesday. 123 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:59,960 It's tuna. You're not spitting. He's a can of tuna. I'll stick it on me. Lambo. Dislocate 124 00:08:59,960 --> 00:09:04,080 your bottom jaw. Throw the top teeth out. That's how you pronounce a Tuesday. Yeah, 125 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:08,680 exactly. It's 2011 my dear boy. The world rejoices as we finally rid ourselves of some 126 00:09:08,680 --> 00:09:16,680 truly awful people. Bin Laden, Gaddafi and the news of the world all get what they deserve. 127 00:09:16,680 --> 00:09:21,880 I love that you laughed at your own joke. It was your delivery. And they are mourned 128 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:31,840 by no one. It's 2011 my dear boy. Self-confessed warlock Charlie Sheen is by winning on Tiger 129 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:38,360 Blood. Yeah. To quote the man himself. The run he is on makes Sinatra, Jagger, Richards, 130 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:45,680 all of them look like droopy eyed harmless children. What a quote. Honestly, that interview 131 00:09:45,680 --> 00:09:50,640 is one of my favourite pieces of media that exists. The guy's a fucking legend. He really 132 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:58,280 is. I love him so much. It's 2011 my dear boy. And David Fincher is given 90 million 133 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:04,320 to make the girl with the dragon tattoo. 90 million. Yeah. 90 mil. It's a cool 90 mil. 134 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:10,040 That's impressive. I guess Sweden. Expensive, right? Well, we'll get into why Sweden's expensive. 135 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:14,480 But before we do, for those of you that haven't seen this film in a long while and want a 136 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,960 bit of a refresher so you know what the hell we're talking about later in the episode, 137 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:22,200 or those of you who've got no plans on seeing this film, we just want to hang out with us. 138 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,760 We're going to give you a quick little breakdown of what happens in the movie. Consider it 139 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,760 a spoiler warning. This film's been out a while and we're going to tell you exactly 140 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,440 what happens. It's only two minutes, but it's kind of important to what we've got going 141 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,880 on later, right? You've had 14 years to watch a film. Are you really going to spoil it for 142 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:46,080 two minutes? You know what I mean? Right. Exactly. Yeah. Just play the jingle. Journalist Michael 143 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:51,320 Blomfist faces a career crisis after losing a libel case against a powerful businessman, 144 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:56,760 Vennerstrom. Shortly after he is approached by Henrik Vanger, the head of a wealthy Swedish 145 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:02,160 family with an unusual request to investigate the decades old disappearance of Henrik's 146 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:09,440 niece Harriet, who vanished from the family estate in 1966. Henrik believes a member of 147 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:15,640 his family is responsible and offers Michael both payment and information that could help 148 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:22,240 him take revenge on Vennerstrom. He's at his career ruined by a guy who probably did it, 149 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,480 but there's no proof he's did it. And this, this old dude's been like, a member of my 150 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:30,920 family definitely killed my niece. And what's more than that? The killer sends me a pressed 151 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:39,240 flower every year to taunt me that I know that she was murdered and it has to be someone 152 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:43,760 on this little island, this little family island. It has to be my family member. Find 153 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,960 out and I'll give you the goods on your man, Vennerstrom. Michael moves to the remote Vanger 154 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:53,400 estate and begins unraveling the complex web of family relationships. With little progress 155 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:58,520 made, he enlists the help of Lisbeth Salander, a brilliant hacker with a troubled past who 156 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:04,000 had previously investigated him for Henrik. Together, they uncover a series of brutal 157 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:10,160 murders spanning decades, all connected to Bible verses. The investigation points to 158 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:16,080 Martin Vanger, Henrik's nephew, as the perpetrator and Michael confronts him. Martin captures 159 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:22,400 and tortures Michael, but is stopped by Lisbeth, who rescues him in a violent shutdown, shutdown, 160 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:28,000 in a violent showdown. F**k my life. Martin flees and dies in a car crash during his escape. 161 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:32,300 The pair continues digging and discovers that Harriet is alive, living under a new identity 162 00:12:32,300 --> 00:12:36,800 in London. She reveals her disappearance was an escape from her abusive brother Martin 163 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:42,040 and her father, who had also subjected her to years of violence. With Harriet's help, 164 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:46,560 Michael brings closure to the Vanger family mystery. Meanwhile, Lisbeth uses her skills 165 00:12:46,560 --> 00:12:52,240 to gather evidence against Vennerstrom, helping Michael publish a damning exposé that restores 166 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:57,480 his reputation. The film concludes with Lisbeth preparing to express her feelings for Michael, 167 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:02,520 but she finds him reconnecting with his old flame, Erica Berger. Is Berger her real last 168 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:12,040 name? Berger. Oh yeah, makes sense. Finds him reconnecting with his old flame, Erica 169 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:16,800 Berger. I prefer Berger. Heartbroken, she discards the gift she had planned to give 170 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:24,560 him and rides away on her Michael cycle. Oh my God, Ben. And rides away on her motorcycle, 171 00:13:24,560 --> 00:13:32,040 leaving Michael unaware of her departure. That was a nightmare. I apologise. So given 172 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:36,040 that this is the first of a trilogy and you know, we're all excited to see where it leads. 173 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:42,560 Ha ha. Yeah. More fool us. When did you first watch this film? What was your thoughts? What 174 00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:46,240 was your feelings? Okay. Because this wasn't one you dug in it. This is, this is one that 175 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:51,720 I'm like, I was dug in in. I was like, mmm, we chomp on this as soon as it came out because 176 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:56,120 Nine Inch Nails did the soundtrack. Also this was, this was a first time watch for you. 177 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:01,440 Yeah, exactly. All me. So I've not watched this because it was a popular book and I'm 178 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:06,240 like, meh. Right. Meh. You know what I mean? Like I've been tricked into this before. I 179 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:10,480 watched Harry Potter in the cinema. I'm not falling for this again. So I ignored it. Right. 180 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:15,240 Okay. I forgot it existed. And then, uh, we did the Fincher series. Yeah. And you were 181 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:19,280 like, next week is the girl with the dragon tattoo. And I was like, yeah, Min. So great. 182 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:25,520 I left it until two days ago to watch it. How'd you find it? Probably the most harrowing 183 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:31,680 three hours I've spent in a long time, especially with a little bit of gray brain. Yeah. Like 184 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:36,640 just here's a little, a little flash warning for anyone. Anyone that's having like not 185 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:41,320 an off day, but you know, just sort of like a meh kind of day. Yeah. Gray brain. Gray 186 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:46,400 brain. Just, just don't watch girl with a dragon tattoo. No, that's not, that shouldn't 187 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:52,840 be your go-to. If it is get help, medical help immediately, professional help, because 188 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,040 step brothers exists. You know what I mean? Anything else exists. Just watch anything 189 00:14:56,040 --> 00:15:03,400 else. I watched it. I loved it. I hated it. It was aggressively, aggressively cynical 190 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:12,280 and dark, cynical, torturous, mean-spirited. And just, there is some elements of evil that 191 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:18,480 are in this film that are so hard to comprehend in the moment that it's happening because 192 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:23,960 it's such, it's such a well-paced film. It doesn't dwell on the evil too long. It kind 193 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:28,560 of, it snap happens and then you have to deal with it whilst processing the rest of stuff 194 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:32,360 that's going on as the characters would have to in their normal day-to-day lives. Yeah. 195 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:36,720 And the way that it's done is genius, but awful because it just leaves you, it leaves 196 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:42,280 you hanging like what? Oh, no, I don't want to see grocery shopping now. I don't want 197 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:46,520 to see this. Right. But they've got to do it. They need milk. It's incredible. The way 198 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:52,320 that it's done is, is literally, this is probably up to date to date. This is Finch's best film 199 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:57,360 by, by a long shot. In his catalog. I would agree. I would buy a long shot. It is a, it 200 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:05,720 is a perfection of the serial killer mystery thriller that he has been working on since 201 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:11,680 seven. It's seven. There's an interesting, this, I wasn't meant to be talking about this, 202 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:19,440 total tangent, but Finch's early career is really hot. Yeah. And his late career is really 203 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:26,280 cold. Yes. And for me, this is his coldest, like fight club and seven, it's all dirt and 204 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:34,300 bright colors and like vivid greens and vivid pinks and fast edits and like up, up tempo 205 00:16:34,300 --> 00:16:38,600 soundtracks be like, Oh, it's so nighties and tubular and extreme. Did you just say 206 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,960 tubular? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's that's lean into it. Yeah. Sorry. I just, I've never heard 207 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:47,320 you say that word in 18 years of knowing you. That's incredible. It's not the nighties anymore. 208 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:51,240 No one says tubular anymore. I was using it as a, as an era signifier. I'm going to make 209 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,640 that my ring tune. You know what I mean? That's going to be my ringtone for the rest of my 210 00:16:54,640 --> 00:17:02,240 life. It's your ring tuner. My ring tune, my ring tuner. Yeah. So his later films, social 211 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:08,480 network, girl with a dragon tattoo and Gone Girl are frozen. This is the most frozen of 212 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:13,640 the three. I'm going to disagree. I feel like this is, this is on par with Gone Girl for 213 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:18,960 me. I think it's a, it's a different race though. Right. This one, you're removed and 214 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:23,000 you're from the outside looking in Gone Girl. You're very much involved with it's first 215 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:27,080 person. It's happening to you. It's this, but it's much more intimate. Yes. Sorry. Can 216 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,760 I just clarify when you say this is a different race, you mean Olympics and not Al Jolson? 217 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:35,440 I do mean that. Yes. I was going to say ball game because I've been playing lots of MLB 218 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,960 baseball. Ball game would have been better. We're a podcast Ben. We have to remember our 219 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:47,840 company. I see my issue. Yeah. It's a savagely cold, cynical, dark film. And I love it for 220 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:54,420 that because it's, it's essentially, it's a superhero film. I'm going to come back to 221 00:17:54,420 --> 00:18:00,520 why it's a superhero film, both figuratively and literally. Please do. I will. I promise 222 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:05,120 I will. But I think the, the thing I want to, I want to come back to you very briefly 223 00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:09,160 before I do is, is that whole concept of it. We're at the end of the year, the evenings 224 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:13,200 are getting shorter, nights are drawing in and it's sort of a bit reflective and a bit 225 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:17,880 like, Oh, you know, how's the year been? This has been a slightly rough one for us in lots 226 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:22,320 of ways. It's been great in lots of ways, but it's also been, if we're talking about 227 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:27,600 failures or like things that you could frame as failures. Okay. Yeah. We've had some stuff 228 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:32,160 going on, right? Like we, we, we, we made a conscious, we consciously uncoupled from 229 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:37,960 YouTube. We did. To put it in Chris Martin and Gwyneth Paltrow terms. Yeah. Hated that, 230 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,840 but yeah. Yeah. There's a couple, there's a couple of like things that we've just gone, 231 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,760 do you know what, that's not for us. I think it's a smart move for now. Like they will 232 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:50,920 be for us, but for right now they can't be because we tried, we tried really hard is 233 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:55,480 what I'm pointing at. And, and we went, we're not seeing the return that we need. And that's 234 00:18:55,480 --> 00:19:01,560 been kind of true of a lot of things this year. I mean, I don't know about you. Right. 235 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:06,720 I came into this year. I left a very stable job, very well paid, stable job. I wasn't 236 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:11,720 happy. It was a sit down office job. It was fine. The people I worked with were fine. 237 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:16,920 I was hitting quarterly targets within a week. So then I had well over two months of sort 238 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:21,200 of twiddling my thumbs. So I left that because I thought what better job to do in the winter 239 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:27,080 than be a postman wearing shorts, not been about chatting to people. There's your Christmas 240 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:31,960 prezi enjoy your day. Right. I think that's the sort of version of what a postman is that 241 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:37,400 can only come from postman Pat and then never investigating further. Yeah. Postman Pat. 242 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:44,400 And I stand that one guy from what's that Ricky? Afterlife. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. That's 243 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:50,800 my entire inspiration for that job switch. Anyway, the, the job fell through for no reason. 244 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,840 Uh, they just stopped emailing me back. So I'd left my job. I was like, Hey, so I've 245 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,400 done my induction, all of this stuff. And then that just all fell through. And I was 246 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,080 like, Oh cool. And they were like, yeah, we didn't tell you that you were to start. I 247 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:06,320 was like, you gave me a start date and an induction. Yeah. Great. Uh, then shortly after 248 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:12,320 that I, uh, I had a relationship, uh, failed. Yeah. Went through a breakup. That was pretty 249 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:18,200 savage because it was one of those relationships where you, I mean, I'm not going to speak 250 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:24,120 for anyone else, but I got all of my self-worth from that. I sort of had that as part of my 251 00:20:24,120 --> 00:20:29,280 identity. Yeah. You, you totally codependented. Oh, a thousand percent. Yeah. That was, I 252 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:33,480 was, it was the most codependent situation I've ever been a part of. And it got to a 253 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,160 point where I didn't know who I was. I didn't know what I liked. I didn't do stuff that 254 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,260 I was interested in. It was just going through the motions because it was comfortable and 255 00:20:41,260 --> 00:20:46,640 familiar and easy. Yeah. Yeah. That wasn't nice to come to terms with because you sort 256 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:50,920 of, once you break away from this, I really had to sit and stare in the mirror and go, 257 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:58,800 wow, this ain't who I thought I'd be looking at right now. Yeah. And, you know what I mean? 258 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:03,320 Yeah. And I mean, anyone who wants to know my litany of failures, go listen to last week's 259 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:08,280 episode on a different man where I, for the first time probably ever on the show, well, 260 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:13,200 probably since green room, like opened up about how I was and what I was doing. And, 261 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:19,400 it was terrifying and awful and rare. It's just been, it's been a rough year, right? 262 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:27,060 We've had, we've had stuff going on that feels failure-y. Yeah. But here's why I think this 263 00:21:27,060 --> 00:21:32,480 week is perfect to do Girl with a Dragon Tattoo. Okay. Because we're covering it in the same 264 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:39,240 month that the film is set. And I think there's some valuable lessons about how we're feeling 265 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:43,840 in this film. Not intentionally. Don't get me wrong. We're covering every David Fincher 266 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:49,880 film ever, but by some miracle, it has, the chips have fallen in this beautiful way. So 267 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,600 let me give you some context. The Girl with a Dragon Tattoo, you said, you know, it's 268 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:58,760 based on a book. Yeah. That book sold more than 30 million copies. Jesus Christ. It was 269 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:06,600 then made into a film starring Numi Rapace in Swedish, Swedish language. They were worldwide 270 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:11,360 total gross of a hundred million. Wow. For that one, for that first film. Respect. They 271 00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:18,480 said, the US studios, they had this concept, right? So this is David Fincher quoting. David 272 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:22,800 Fincher says, I was offered Dragon Tattoo long before the first movie, the 2009 one 273 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,920 was made. Yeah. And I was in the middle of something else. Also, I was like lesbian hacker 274 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:34,520 on a motorcycle. I don't think so. Yeah, fair. And then, but then he goes on, he then goes 275 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:39,400 on, he goes, I wasn't that interested in the notion of making another serial killer movie 276 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:46,840 as much as the studio was committed to the idea of a hard R rated adult franchise. I'm 277 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:54,800 glad that gap between hard R and rated franchise was deafening. That was outrageous. I was 278 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:59,360 like, where is this one going? Cause I've just mistakenly said race instead of ballgame. 279 00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:04,680 You can't be dropping hard R in the middle of an episode. He went on and he goes, look, 280 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:08,120 there's a very large talent pool of people who don't feel that there's much for them 281 00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:11,840 in terms of sustenance working for Marvel. Okay. That's understandable. And I think if 282 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:17,880 we can make a playground for them, that is thoughtful, adult, interesting, complex, challenging, 283 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:22,800 there's a chance at something that isn't lassoed and hogtied by three act structure. Okay. 284 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:31,160 So in a sort of bizarre way, this was a sort of adult version of the MCU. Okay. I can see 285 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:37,740 that man. Lisbeth is a kind of grounded in reality, revenge tale superhero who doesn't 286 00:23:37,740 --> 00:23:43,140 turn herself into like serious, genuine things happen to these people. Yeah. And they react 287 00:23:43,140 --> 00:23:49,400 as we would want ourselves to, as we would like to think we would react if we had film 288 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:54,720 character levels of not giving a damn, right? Pack into a newspaper and then murder a bunch 289 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:59,000 of people. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Right. Exactly. Seeing injustice, getting it fixed. Yeah. 290 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:03,720 A brilliant, brilliant sort of incredibly satisfying thing to watch. It's a harrowing 291 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:08,800 thing to see why they've got to do those things. Yeah. Also really inspirational though. Cause 292 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:13,480 you know what I mean? I struggle with Excel. So, right. You know what I mean? Right. So 293 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:19,320 as a character, she's brilliant and she's a brilliant kind of like captain Sweden. Captain 294 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:24,840 Sweden. Right. Yeah. And it's a ridiculous comparison that I'm ashamed to make, but I 295 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:30,040 feel like there are some movie podcasts out there that you and I talk about that we will 296 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:36,320 not name. Smooth. That have gone down the Marvel route. And we often talk about, well, they're 297 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:43,160 doing really well. They're doing really, really well. Should we do that? And we go, nah, we're 298 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:48,280 not Marvel man. We're not doing that. We're not even DC. I think we're like, we're image 299 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,920 or with dark horse at best. I think that's what we're, but I'm talking about what we're 300 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:57,440 trying to be. They're trying to be everything for every person. Here's a movie fact. Did 301 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:02,760 you know that film isn't real? Oh my God. The actors are pretending. Yeah. That's such 302 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,720 a great insight. And then the other person goes, Oh my God, really? And we're like, Oh, 303 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:11,440 come on. Okay. Or there's like, did you know Jeff Goldblum before he was on Marvel? He 304 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:17,280 was in the fly. Oh my God. Really? He was also in Jurassic Park. Oh yeah. Of course. 305 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:24,680 Did you know that before she was an actress, Sigourney Weaver was a baby. Oh my God. Really? 306 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:30,600 Right. So there's that and it's super successful in it works. It's great. And so it's a ridiculous 307 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:36,760 comparison, but I can kind of understand the impetus to go. I see what's happening over 308 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:43,320 there and I don't think I could bring myself to do that. No. But what if we took the good 309 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:48,600 and we did an adult, interesting, slightly more challenging, slightly more thoughtful 310 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:53,160 version. Okay. And I think that's what this was going to be. They spent a huge amount 311 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:57,240 of money on it. Okay. So this was, let's get David Fincher. Let's get the most popular 312 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:03,160 book on the planet and let's get an incredible cast and let's make a franchise that operates 313 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:09,080 like the MCU. I love this. But it's for grownups. I love this. What a brilliant idea, right? 314 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:14,240 I find that it feeds into, like I've got a note here saying multiple storylines and what 315 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,640 they represent. That's the tagline for it. Right? Give me, give me this note. Tell me 316 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:23,640 what it is. So this note, you've got so many different branches of film under one umbrella 317 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,740 in this, right? Right. You've got the murder mystery, which turns into like a big serial 318 00:26:27,740 --> 00:26:33,040 killer hunt. You've got the ruined identity of the investigative journalist and how that 319 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:37,080 has the potential to be resolved. He's had his reputation destroyed and he's got one 320 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:41,840 last Hail Mary chance to get his identity back. His credential back, right? And then, 321 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:45,800 but also that he's got like a little carrot on the end of a stick, like dangling in front 322 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,360 of him. That's sort of tempting him to do these certain things. It's incredible. But 323 00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:55,960 you've also got this outrageously upsetting storyline of Lisbeth's situation and how she's 324 00:26:55,960 --> 00:27:03,120 actively isolated, manipulated, taken advantage of is how I've worded it. But you want me 325 00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:07,920 to be not incorrect? It's one of the most harrowing scenes I've seen in a 2000s era 326 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:14,000 movie. She's just fucking outright abused in every single situation. And it comes from, 327 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:20,820 it's especially done by the people and the powers that are there to protect her. Now, 328 00:27:20,820 --> 00:27:27,640 if that doesn't spell out the foundation of an adult MCU universe, I don't know what does 329 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:32,120 because that is like, what's fantastic about her as a character is that she has these awful 330 00:27:32,120 --> 00:27:38,000 things happen to her and she is a victim, but she never allows herself to be victimized. 331 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:44,600 And the people that do, she gets back at and goes, I think fucking not sunshine. She's 332 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:49,620 bang out. Right. It's interesting because the original title of the book in Swedish 333 00:27:49,620 --> 00:27:54,480 is men who hate women. I like that better. Right. I just half wanted you to say the girl 334 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,520 with the dragon tattoo and a really bad Swedish accent. That's the childish version of me. 335 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,680 You know what I mean? We're here to grow. Yeah. Right. Of course. Of course. What's 336 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:07,000 terrifying and beautiful about this film. It's not a three act structure. It's not 337 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:12,320 like subplots are resolved in the first third of the film. Yeah. And the main characters 338 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,760 don't meet until halfway through. Yeah. For the first half of this film, you're watching 339 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:21,960 two separate films side by side. You are both fucked up as each other. They really are. 340 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,880 They really are. I, okay. I'm just going to come out and say, we're not going to talk 341 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:30,680 about what I would call the main theme of this, which is violence against women. Okay. 342 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:35,320 Because A, it makes for a really difficult to listen to episode. Yep. And B, I don't 343 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,600 think we're the people whose opinion really matters on this one. I'm going to agree with 344 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:45,400 it. I think two white males on a podcast are arguably overqualified. We don't need that 345 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:51,120 again. Exactly. You don't need two white guys to talk, to fix, to fix all the reasons that 346 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:55,480 there's sexual violence against women. Not again. You know, it can't be us every time. 347 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,520 For a third time. You know what I mean? For our American listeners, we're being ironic. 348 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:04,840 That is pure sarcasm. Actual joke. Context is lol. Right. Yeah. Yeah. We're, we're leaning 349 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:10,200 into the awfulness of other podcasts who go, let me tell you what I think about the sexual 350 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,160 violence against women. We're just not qualified. Yeah. Right. We've never, we've never been 351 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,360 victim to it and we've never committed any. So what do we know about it? Yeah. We can't 352 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,200 patronize and be sort of like, no, I know where you're coming from. Right. Yeah. We 353 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:26,240 just don't. We don't. There's no way. But that is, that is kind of a huge theme in it. 354 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:32,480 I'm okay. But I think, I think what makes it excellent is it, it's never exploitative. 355 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:40,240 It's not. It's never voyeuristic. It's never sexy. No. And it's, and it's, it's righted 356 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:47,160 by a woman on her own terms without any help from any male character. Yep. Daniel Craig's 357 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,880 character in this doesn't fix her issues for her. She fixes them and then she comes to 358 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:56,800 help him. Yeah. She fixes his issues. Exactly. Like every time he has an issue, she fixes 359 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,280 it. And then if he's having a bit of an issue, she takes precautions to make sure it doesn't 360 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:05,680 happen again. And it's like, I might be in love. I'm just saying, you know what I mean? 361 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:12,000 Lisbeth Salander in this film is, is, is goals. Holy shit. Yeah. Unreal. She looks, I mean, 362 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:18,400 she's your perfect woman. She looks like a, a heroin addicted alien. Yeah. And she's got 363 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:26,880 a touch of autism. You know what I mean? There's a, there's a smidge. Riddled. Absolutely riddled. 364 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:33,560 There's a smidge. Okay. I can, I can see this bit talking about Rooney Mara. Rooney Mara, 365 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:39,680 I've only just clicked in this exact moment right now was in the social network. She was. 366 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:45,200 So get this, get this. David Fincher worked with her for four days on the social network. 367 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:50,080 And when she heard that he was making dragon tattoo, she was desperate for it. Okay. She 368 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:54,520 really, really wanted to do it. And he was like, no, she's like the clean cut all American 369 00:30:54,520 --> 00:31:00,560 girl. Cause in his head, he had her as Erica Albright, her character in the social network. 370 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,960 So she campaigned and she campaigned, she campaigned, and eventually she managed to 371 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:08,960 get a test screening. Yeah. She had to convince David, which took like three or four screen 372 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:13,880 tests. And then once he was convinced, he had to convince the studio. So it ended up 373 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:20,400 taking about six or seven months of her turning up, getting into character, getting dressed 374 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:25,360 up, doing screen tests, getting photos taken back and forth and back and forth and back 375 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:31,080 and forth. At one point she was booked to do promo for the social network and the production 376 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,800 company rang her and they're like, you need to come in to screen test. She's like, I can't, 377 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,640 I've got to go to Europe for Elle magazine. And they're like, yep, just tell them you 378 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,680 got food, food poisoning. She's like, I mean, in my head I was going, they either want you 379 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,200 or they don't. And they should just f**k off at this point. Yeah. But of course I went 380 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:52,800 anyway, cause I wanted the part. So, uh, haircut, obviously that's real. Uh, bleached your eyebrows, 381 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:59,480 kept them bleached for the duration of filming. Incredible. Lost an unhealthy amount of weight. 382 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:04,520 Yeah. The piercings are real. Eyebrow piercings real, the nipple piercings real. Cause she 383 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,880 wanted, she said that when, cause there's so much nudity in the film, she felt like 384 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:13,080 she was more comfortable if she had all the piercings. Cause it meant even when she was 385 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:19,160 naked, she was still in costume. That's interesting. She's not, it's not Rooney Mara naked on screen 386 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:26,000 because Rooney Mara doesn't have piercings. Right. Yeah. Um, she then went, uh, martial 387 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:31,400 arts training. Okay. She went motorcycle training. She got a dialect coach to get the accent. 388 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:36,760 Okay. And she also weirdly learned to skateboard. To skateboard? Yes. Does she skateboard in 389 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:41,680 this film? No, not once. Okay. David Fincher said, uh, she's a bit androgynous and she's 390 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:46,560 got kind of arrested development. You know, she's said she's 24 in the film, but she is 391 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:51,160 mentally much younger than that. She's not as mature as that. Right. And she's a bit 392 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:56,240 of a misfit. So I want her to have the walk of a 13 year old boy. So you're going to learn 393 00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:00,360 how to skateboard and get your weight all weird and just do, do something a 13 year 394 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:05,120 old boy does. So she learned to skateboard so she could get an, in so much of the behind 395 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,880 the scenes footage. He's like, do the skateboard thing and you'll see her posture change. 396 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:14,160 And he's like, yeah, mint. My favorite thing about that fact is that Fincher at some point 397 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:19,160 saw a 13 year old boy skating and was like, that's the posture. That's the posture that 398 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:25,960 she needs. Yeah. Exactly. That's what I want for my film. So wildly specific. But can you 399 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:30,000 imagine like, you're just there like learning to skateboard going, I just want to be in 400 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:34,680 a film man. Yeah. But can you imagine being on a skate park and someone being like, why 401 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,440 are you in the social network? Why are you learning to skateboard? Just like, yeah, shut 402 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,360 the fuck up. I'm trying to be a Swedish badass. The worst thing is after all of that, do you 403 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:46,440 want to hear what David Fincher said? Go on. It is savage. Okay. He just said, I quote 404 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:51,440 David Fincher. Yeah. Piercings are piercings and losing weight is losing weight. I think 405 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:58,200 that's important to maybe the golden globes. It's not so important to me. After all that 406 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:03,960 effort. For me, it's about, is the person willing to do the work on themselves to understand 407 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:09,200 this character, which saves the quote a bit. I was going to say, Jesus Christ, that's a 408 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:14,680 massive U-turn at the end. Why did you leave that pause? Your pause is today out of pocket, 409 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:20,080 man. We need to talk about this. Jesus. But I love the idea that he's just sending her 410 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:25,040 on random quests. I love that. Oh, you want the part. Cool. Go climb that mountain and 411 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:29,240 ask the guy at the top. Yeah. Oh, what you want? Three riddles. You want to be a 24 year 412 00:34:29,240 --> 00:34:37,400 old Swedish badass getting a knife fight with a smack head in Stockholm. You can begin to 413 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:42,560 see why this costs 90 million. Not to mention it was shot in Sweden. So the days are incredibly 414 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:48,080 short. Oh my. Yeah. So the daytime shots, they had very little time to film them. So 415 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:53,400 something that would take a day to film in Atlanta takes three in Sweden. That's nutty 416 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,520 because you just haven't got the light for that long. Like it was a, it was an insanely 417 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:03,160 long shooting schedule. It was like 160 days of primary. Jesus Christ. Yeah. And it is, 418 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:08,840 it was purely because of the location. That's insane. 160 days is insane. With David Fincher 419 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,120 though, and everything's got to be done 90 times. Yeah. But most of his films are like 420 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:17,120 40, 50 days and everyone's like, Jesus Christ, that was exhausting. Literally three times 421 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:21,600 that amount. Fair play. But I mean, look, the setting's important. I get it. And I'm 422 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,480 glad he went there. Dude, the setting, this is another one of my notes, the setting and 423 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:32,360 location. Like I can't get over, I can't get over how the film feels. You know, that's 424 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,560 really like knobby thing that people say where it's like, Oh God, New York city is just a 425 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:44,720 character in itself. Yes. I'm 100%. Dude, this entire backdrop is a living, breathing, 426 00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:50,920 talking definitely loud character in this film. It's so upsetting. Like I can't even 427 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:56,120 put my finger on white. It's like it is a, it's a desolate, desperately lonely backdrop, 428 00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:02,320 right? I have this tiny little remote Island, Midlands, Sweden. Now that's heroin. That's 429 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:08,520 eerie enough, right? All on its own. But then with the two main characters, Michaela and 430 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:13,520 Elizabeth bring in some of the most fucked up trauma that you've ever heard with them. 431 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:20,280 This little murder Island becomes just paralyzing with fear. It is just, it's electric. The 432 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:26,400 whole thing is, is edge of your seat kind of stuff. The, it's, it's just the perfect 433 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:31,520 backdrop, man. It's a perfect backdrop for like a noir mystery doused in personal and 434 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:37,520 professional fucked up. What I love about what Finch has done is even if you look at 435 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:41,620 something as simple as the title of the original book, men who hate women, he's taken Michael 436 00:36:41,620 --> 00:36:47,080 Blomkist's flaws and brought them right to the front. He was married and he cheated on 437 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:53,280 his wife with his editor, who he then cheats on with his assistant. Yeah. It's not great. 438 00:36:53,280 --> 00:37:03,560 It's not great. It's a dysfunction and snow and just cold, cynical beauty. Yeah. And I 439 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:08,160 think that's the thing is it's, it's, it's the, it's the beauty of the desolation because 440 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:13,720 it's a relief from the human stuff. That's exactly what it is. If anxiety had a front 441 00:37:13,720 --> 00:37:19,200 garden, that's right. It's gorgeous. Right. Now we normally do this at the end, but I 442 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:24,720 need to tell you how much this film made now. Okay. Cause against that 90 million budget, 443 00:37:24,720 --> 00:37:31,720 it made a hundred million in the U S that's nothing. Now it made 239 million globally, 444 00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:36,760 but this was not the massive U S hit that they wanted. And for reference, right. The 445 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,920 Avengers, which is kind of what they were had the seeds of building comes out five months 446 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:47,200 later and makes a clean 1.5 billion. Yeah. All right. Right. Yeah. I see that though, 447 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,960 but I reckon this could have made a billion if you throw an Iron Man in the middle of 448 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:56,360 it. You know what I mean? So what this got off the first bat on its first installment 449 00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:01,280 that Marvel, I think really struggles with this got five Academy award nominations. Jesus 450 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:06,120 Christ. And it won for, you know, some of the smaller categories, right. It wasn't what 451 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:10,840 they needed as far as the studio where they were like, we wanted a bigger hit, but they 452 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:17,000 let him carry on progress on the sequel continued. Okay. But it's David Fincher. Yeah, of course. 453 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:23,720 So he was writing and he was writing and then in August, 2012, so a full 18 months later, 454 00:38:23,720 --> 00:38:28,320 there's delays in the script. So July, 2013, he gets Andrew Kevin Walker in. Yeah. He wrote 455 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:32,740 seven. He signs on to do rewrites, keeps writing because they're trying to do the next two 456 00:38:32,740 --> 00:38:37,280 films back to back. Okay. So they're working, working, working. And then the fourth book 457 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:42,280 in the series, the girl and the spider's webs released. Yeah. And is huge. Yeah. And Sony, 458 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:47,200 who was sick of waiting and want their money and want their this, that or the other, just 459 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:52,000 clean slate, just go, no, we'll, we'll start again with the girl and the spider's web. 460 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,960 I saw this on prime after I'd finished watching girl, the dragon tattoo, this one popped up 461 00:38:55,960 --> 00:39:01,600 an English speaking language. Yeah. I was like, we'll come back to that one. I was like, 462 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:06,600 I don't understand where this is. Where am I? Come back. We will come back to, to that 463 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:12,440 because I adore this film. Okay. I adore these characters. I adore this, these versions of 464 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:17,920 the characters. The only way I'm going to get what I need is to read the books and picture 465 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:23,280 these characters. Oh, that sounds fun. That's all I can do because there will never be a 466 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:29,320 U S version and the Swedish versions are much less David Fincher. Let's put it that way. 467 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,760 Yeah, I can imagine. And that's just, you're right. I'm just, I don't, I'm not interested 468 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:38,960 in that. I'm not interested in that. I love the coldness and the isolation and the David 469 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:46,760 Finchiness of this. Dude, this, okay. I'm 1000% with you, 1000% with you. This is my 470 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:52,480 big thought on this film. Ooh. You've, you've led me perfectly to this. So the main takeaway 471 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:58,120 that I got from this film is the, how the story spot, how the story puts a spotlight 472 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:04,040 on loneliness. Okay. But then tell me more. But then how Fincher really digs the nails 473 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:09,980 in and emphasizes it with his work. And it's right. It's sort of like this weird combination 474 00:40:09,980 --> 00:40:17,680 of masterful filmmaking. Yeah. And disgusting trauma being thrown at you. But it's being 475 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:25,200 handled in a way that you're like, okay, maybe, maybe there's something in this and it just, 476 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:30,080 so it starts and then it just progressively gets weird. Right. So take the, the Vanga 477 00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:39,040 family, right? Everyone's portrayed as wealthy, successful, but honestly, have you ever seen 478 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:44,080 a group of more actively lonely people in your entire life? Oh God no. They all live 479 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:48,000 on the same Island and none of them talk to each other. They're all surrounded by people, 480 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:53,280 but no one has an ear that they can trust. Like not one person that they can trust. And 481 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:57,280 it is, it's heartbreaking to look at. Cause I'm like, I can feel for that. Not having 482 00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:03,480 one person to entrust like on an entire Island, including your family must be the hardest 483 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:10,640 thing to live with. And you're all just doing it in Sweden, in the snow. You know what I 484 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:15,840 mean? You've got Mikhail. So Mikhail is an English guy. He's a journalist whose career 485 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:21,440 has recently been thrown into turmoil. He's got a daughter from a previous marriage. He 486 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:28,320 is trying to just be, you know what I mean? He's just trying to be him, get his cred back, 487 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:35,160 be a dad. That's essentially what it is. Then you've got Lisbeth, ridiculously smart, incredibly 488 00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:39,720 resilient. And when I say resilient, I mean just the strongest female character in a movie 489 00:41:39,720 --> 00:41:46,400 that we've seen in forever. Yeah. She's meant, she's meant, she's absolutely meant. She's 490 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:53,520 a superhero. She's a horrendously abused woman that is not just, she's not just chosen to 491 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:59,200 be isolated. She's forced to be isolated. It's a safety issue for her. It's a safety 492 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:05,440 issue for her. Emotionally, physically. Right. But it's also, it's also a non-negotiable 493 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:09,920 situation for her because her employer, she's weird. People don't like her. She works from 494 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:13,120 her and we don't want her in the office, but she's great at what she does. You know what 495 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:17,920 I mean? Yeah. Her living situation where she's living in that little rundown little flat, 496 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:23,520 she gets handed an allowance to pay her rent and that's it. Her legal guardian, awful, 497 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:30,120 awful, awful. And it's just, it's, if you've seen the movie irreversible, this is as bad. 498 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:35,000 As bad, but not 12 minutes on edited. Yeah, true. But it's mainly the lack of trust. It's 499 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,960 the lack of trust in her as a functioning adult from a system that's designed to protect 500 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:44,560 her that really, really ruined me. The worst thing about all of this though, bud, and by 501 00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,960 a long shot, and we've not mentioned it yet, is Harriet. Yeah. She's a background character. 502 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,520 She's the, she's the focal point of the film, but she is a background character. She's the 503 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:55,560 McGuffin. She's the, she's the gold night over Indiana Jones is chasing, right? We've 504 00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:59,640 got to find what happened to this girl. And then you sort of get lost in the mystery of 505 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:04,200 it. But when you really take a step back and you look at it, she's a kid that was forced 506 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:11,160 to flee from like a murderous family on her own to a land that is not her home with no 507 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:16,240 lifeline. She can't risk getting in touch with her family or her friends because the 508 00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:21,920 chances are that her insanely wealthy, powerful family will track her down and do a murder. 509 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,840 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So with all of this going on, this is sort of like that. 510 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:28,800 There's the isolating factors, the storylines that are all at play constantly. Yeah. You've 511 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:33,720 got, and then you've got Fincher in steps Fincher. You know what I mean? He paints his 512 00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:41,000 harrowing picture in gorgeous cinematography. It's a cold blue filter instills on everything, 513 00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:48,400 on everything. And it's still a sense of isolation. And then you've got the soundtrack. The soundtrack 514 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:52,960 might be the most intense that we've seen on this show of late. Like the social network 515 00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:58,600 was, was great. It was bang at it. Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross bang at it. Yeah. Incredible. 516 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:04,640 But this is insane. Like it's spine chill. It's, it's, it is the spine chill in swelling 517 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:10,760 monster. It's riddled with sudden pregnant silence that hits you square in the spine 518 00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:17,280 and just disrupts your entire soul on a molecular level. I've always said, cause as we discussed 519 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,600 when we covered the social network, I'm a massive Nine Inch Nails nerd. They are my 520 00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:28,160 one man. This soundtrack is the sound of like frost forming on, on a window. Yes. It's the, 521 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:34,440 and like, it's just the, it's the coldest, sparsest, but if you put it on loud, put it 522 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:40,320 on your headphones loud, you will have a mental health episode. Yeah. It's outrageous. Like 523 00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:45,400 honestly Trent Reznor and Atticus can f*** right off. Like seriously, they have no right 524 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:49,320 having this much sway over my mental health. They have no right whatsoever. Maybe this 525 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:54,160 is the gray day. You know what I mean? Maybe this explains the gray brain. The worst thing 526 00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:58,800 about this whole thing and the best thing about this whole thing is Fincher highlights 527 00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:04,960 everything with these little tiny throw away moments and statements that force you to understand 528 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:10,940 the isolation of even the most minor characters, the characters that you never meet. You only 529 00:45:10,940 --> 00:45:15,200 hear stories of, but you understand their situation wholeheartedly. I've got an example 530 00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:20,280 for this, right? You know, the scene where Martin is hosting the dinner for, with his 531 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:25,320 Mrs. And Mikael. And there's a noise off in the distance and he's like, Oh, someone would 532 00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:29,520 must've left the door open. It's the wind. It's the wind. Whatever it is. It's this, 533 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:33,800 that and the other. And he dips off and it comes back and it's all played off as like 534 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:37,440 fine and no one suspects a thing. And you forget about it. Yeah. Cause you're like, 535 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:42,480 it's a non, it's a non, it's a non thing. Nothing. It's a bit of wind. Shut up. Who 536 00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:50,200 cares? But what it is in actual life, in actual fact, it's the last moments of life. 537 00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:57,120 Of Martin's latest victim. Yeah. And this is then doubled down on when we see the cage 538 00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:02,800 in Martin's basement and he casually in a throw away thing goes, yeah, she was in that 539 00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:08,260 cage while you were eating dinner. Like it means nothing to him. And Fincher hides it 540 00:46:08,260 --> 00:46:14,320 because you, you, there's this kind of screaming whistle through the house. Yeah. And then 541 00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:19,700 later when Daniel Craig sneaks into the house, he leaves the door slightly ajar. Yes. So 542 00:46:19,700 --> 00:46:27,480 you think that that moment was foreshadowing for this explains the mechanism by which he 543 00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:31,520 will be discovered, right? So you're like, Oh, okay. That's why there was that weird 544 00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:36,000 moment with the site, screaming, whistling noise of the wind through the house. It's 545 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:40,640 so that we'd understand how Martin would know that Daniel Craig's character was, was in 546 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:44,760 the house. No, no, no, no, no. My good boy. What he does, what Fincher's done is he's 547 00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,920 made, he's forced you to empathize with the last moments of a character that you're never 548 00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:55,840 going to see here or meet ever. There was nothing but inane sadness that hit me by the 549 00:46:55,840 --> 00:47:00,760 truckload, see in the cage in the background. And it just casually brushed off like it meant 550 00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:05,280 nothing. I was like, that was someone's entire struggle. That was someone's entry in the 551 00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:15,000 Saw franchise. How does a filmmaker have the gall to make me care about these anonymous 552 00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:20,360 people that are just Polaroids on a map of where the murders have taken place? And when 553 00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:26,920 you find out what you do find out, it's 14 years old, Martin's the killer shocker. I've 554 00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:33,560 got a quote from David Fincher that's relevant to your cage observation. Yeah. It's about 555 00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:39,360 the scene earlier in the film, which is so difficult to watch. But he says you walk a 556 00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:44,880 line, you know, everything has to move the story forward, but I won't be unhappy if people 557 00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:51,680 faint. Unbelievable. Do you know what I mean? Fincher makes me nervous, man. He picked this 558 00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:55,080 up and went, yeah, I'm going to do it this way. It's a conscious choice. The worst thing 559 00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:59,360 about it is on top of everything, the one thing that really sells to me that Fincher 560 00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:10,160 might be a serial killer, Zodiac, social network, seven, you know what I mean? Gone Girl. Gone 561 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:13,280 Girl, we're not there yet. Gone Girl gets to me in a whole different level and it's 562 00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,840 10 times worse than this. Yeah. Don't get me started on that because I'll freak out. 563 00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:21,120 But this is what I'm saying. So he's he's doing some stuff, right? He might be a serial 564 00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,920 killer. Yeah. And he might be doing what the Zodiac's doing, but instead of sending letters 565 00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:29,320 to a newspaper, he's making films. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Do you know what I 566 00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:33,160 mean? This is what I'm thinking. Is the next David Fincher going to be making a film about 567 00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:38,120 a cold case of a director that made a load of great movies about serial killers whilst 568 00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:43,240 being a serial killer in 20 years time? Just coming back for a moment to the cruelty of 569 00:48:43,240 --> 00:48:49,560 this film. You're right. It's very isolating. It's a very lonely film, except for the fact 570 00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:54,200 that our two characters find solace in one another. It's the most beautiful thing about 571 00:48:54,200 --> 00:49:00,480 the film by a long shot. Right. Except it doesn't end. No, it does not. With them coming 572 00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:07,320 together. It ends with Lisbeth riding off, believing that the man that she, her first 573 00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:13,800 friend, really, she makes him a custom motorcycle jacket. And what breaks my heart is that the 574 00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:21,200 card that she writes happy Christmas in, the design on the front is like a horse hugging 575 00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:28,440 a bunny. It's really naive. It's really childlike. It's really like something that she picked 576 00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:33,720 because it reminds her of a time when she was last happy, which would have been very 577 00:49:33,720 --> 00:49:39,640 young. And then she sees him in the distance arm in arm with his editor, assumes that they're 578 00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:46,440 back together, chucks it in the bin, rides off, roll credits. And that is where these 579 00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:53,120 characters, these version of the characters will stay forever. Yeah. And that is the most 580 00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:57,600 disgusting injustice that I can think of that Hollywood... Do you know who did that injustice 581 00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:08,600 to you? Fede Alvarez. Off. I hate this guy already. My blood, my piss is boiling right 582 00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:13,360 now. I need you to finish off for why. So it makes sense. Cause at the moment I'm just 583 00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:18,720 flying. I'm off the handle. Evil deads ruined. So aliens ruined. Right. The guy he made, 584 00:50:18,720 --> 00:50:25,120 Oh my God. He made don't breathe. It's awful. Yeah. And he ruined this sick Finch. Finch 585 00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:29,080 is working away. He's taking his time. It's costing a lot of money. He's got Andrew Kevin 586 00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:36,320 Walker in the studio. See this new book, the girl in the spider's web and they go, do you 587 00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:40,520 know what? We're just going to do a soft reboot. Right. And so they, because they skipped two 588 00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:45,920 books and they start on the first of the next trilogy of the books. Cause there's this four 589 00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:50,400 or five books in total. Okay. There's the millennium trilogy of which this is the first. 590 00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:56,480 And then the book immediately after that was a, the girl and the spider's web. Right. And 591 00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:02,600 it's much more upfront spy thriller kind of she's using sniper rifles and blah, blah, 592 00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:07,440 blah, blah. And it's starring Claire Foy and it's directed by Feday Alvarez. And it came 593 00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:12,760 out. It, it flopped. They're never going to come back to this franchise. Whatever he touches 594 00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:19,960 just turns to it's so annoying that everyone's like, what a masterpiece, what a masterpiece 595 00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:23,560 he's taken everything that's wrong with the evil dead and banged it into a film. He's 596 00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:29,280 taken all charisma out of it and just done a reboot that literally turns a dog killer 597 00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:34,040 into a hero. It's insane that people are buying that and going, yeah, it's good horror film 598 00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:38,480 though. And it's like, yeah, evil dead film though, isn't it? And then he has a crack 599 00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,840 at alien. He takes the things we've ever said on screen and goes, yeah, I'm just gonna put 600 00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:46,880 all that in one film. Cause why not? Also inherently scared of guns, xenomorphs shut 601 00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:53,240 up. Of course he's touched this, he's gone to sh... What a shocker. So what's been killed 602 00:51:53,240 --> 00:52:01,420 is not only these characters and their future, you know, screen, we will never see them again. 603 00:52:01,420 --> 00:52:07,560 But also that idea that we spoke about in the beginning of that adult franchise, that 604 00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:15,280 kind of intelligent, thoughtful, more considered, more complex interconnected universe with 605 00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:19,840 real people going through real things and having real reactions, but as part of a larger 606 00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:29,240 franchise. Now everyone's just scared of guns. So it failed. It fell flat on its face. It 607 00:52:29,240 --> 00:52:35,720 was a huge waste of everything. Shocker. And here's what Fincher has to say about it. He 608 00:52:35,720 --> 00:52:40,640 says, we did it the way that we could. And when people say it costs too much for what 609 00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:46,160 the return on investment was, I said, okay, swing and a miss. It's an interesting kind 610 00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:52,320 of coming to terms with like, he's fine with it. He's accepted it. He's just gone, not 611 00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:56,360 everything, you know, you can't do everything. He even says, you know, you can't take everything 612 00:52:56,360 --> 00:53:00,800 on. That's why when people ask, how does this film fit into my uvra? I say, I don't know. 613 00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:05,460 I don't think in those terms. If I did, I might become incapacitated by fear. That's 614 00:53:05,460 --> 00:53:11,480 incredibly mature. So, right. So for our, for our many things we tried this year for 615 00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:16,360 our, we're going to do these series and maybe this will be the one that blows up or I'm 616 00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:22,240 going to switch job and maybe this one or relationship. The person who I think actually 617 00:53:22,240 --> 00:53:28,040 speaks on this the best is Trent Reznor. Somebody says, you know, uh, how do you deal with rejection? 618 00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:31,640 How do you deal with failure? And he goes, Oh, the time on question. Most artists will 619 00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:35,800 tell you it doesn't matter what others think and it matters what you think. Once you finish 620 00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:39,480 it. I'd like to say, I believe that, but in reality, I can look back on my own work 621 00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:43,320 and feel great about something. Then it gets critically sh** canned or someone hates it 622 00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:47,720 and that's the one that sticks with me. I feel like I've failed somebody. The public's 623 00:53:47,720 --> 00:53:52,140 reaction to something can often taint your experience and I try to not put too much weight 624 00:53:52,140 --> 00:53:57,020 on that. It does make its way into a process and particularly in this information driven 625 00:53:57,020 --> 00:54:01,920 world we live in where everyone's found a way to express their opinion. At the end of 626 00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:07,640 the day, what really matters is when you finished a project is that feeling of, Hey, this is 627 00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:12,440 the very best I can do. And I'm proud of it. And I don't think I've let anything out. 628 00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:16,980 I haven't felt that way about what the public thinks of it. And retrospect in hindsight 629 00:54:16,980 --> 00:54:21,760 hasn't always agreed with my opinion, but it has to pass that muster for me to let it 630 00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:27,160 pass. I know Fincher feels the same way. I know he feels strongly about everything he's 631 00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:31,400 done and that he poured his heart and soul into it. I really like that. And I'm looking 632 00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:35,440 back at our year and I think we've done the same. Yeah. I've been proud of everything 633 00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:39,840 we've done this year. Yeah. We've fallen flat on some things, but we've grown massively 634 00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:44,400 in other areas though. Look at you. Yeah. You're a different person to who you were 635 00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:49,680 a year ago, man. I've never been prouder. Grim. That's not grim. It's grim. It's too 636 00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:53,960 grim in reality. We are sorely out of time. Guys. Thank you so much for hanging out with 637 00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:59,560 us. It's been an absolute pleasure. We love each and every one of you. Incredibly, incredibly. 638 00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:03,880 So if you would like to support the show, please feel free to head over to our Patreon. 639 00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:07,840 You can start supporting the show for as little as a pound. No pressure to though. We completely 640 00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:11,240 understand. You know, it's that time of year finances, tough cost of living is going through 641 00:55:11,240 --> 00:55:15,760 the roof. Yeah. I, I'm with, I'm with Ben here. I'm with Ben here. That's very, very 642 00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:19,800 polite of you, Ben. And yes, by all means we understand people. But if you're not going 643 00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:25,680 to join the Patreon, tell a friend, share our, share our social media reals. Cause otherwise, 644 00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:32,040 what are you doing? Just leave a review. Just do something. Just do something. I'm sick 645 00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:36,520 of this freeloading. Right? You've come here, you've listened to our show. What are you 646 00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:41,160 going to do for us? All right. This is what it is. I need some, I need some return. We've 647 00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:45,080 done this very transactionally. You know what I mean? There's nothing, there's no unconditional 648 00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:49,320 love. You owe us now. You owe us. We love you with all of our hearts. Conditionally. 649 00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:52,840 As long as, as long as certain criteria are met. Yeah. There you go. That's what we're 650 00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:57,240 trying to say. No, obviously I'm joking. Obviously I'm joking. It's been lovely having you. Um, 651 00:55:57,240 --> 00:56:00,080 and to thank you for spending an hour of your week with us, especially at the start of the 652 00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:04,640 week. We know a lot of you listen on a Monday. Ben is going to wrap up the thoughts, themes 653 00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:13,680 and feelings of this week's movie into a Monday motivational pep talk. While I just do what 654 00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:20,480 I always do and just tell you to consume Fincher. I keep saying it, man. Fincher worries me, 655 00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:25,800 right? Cause as we all know Fincher is from San Francisco, part of California. And we 656 00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:29,640 also know from Fincher's previous filmography, a little, a little clue that he's left the 657 00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:35,240 one of his films previously. There is not many basements in California, but hear me 658 00:56:35,240 --> 00:56:41,920 out now. Does anyone know if Fincher has a basement? Also now hear me out. Has anyone 659 00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:46,440 decided to check his basement? Because I feel like after the last couple of films, it's 660 00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:51,640 a warranted check just, just for sort of, you know, just for welfare, just for welfare. 661 00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:56,800 He's a charming fella. He's, he's, you know, he's good. Ted Bundy, he was a charming fella. 662 00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:00,400 He was good looking, but I mean, say what you want about Fritzel. He was a terrible 663 00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:03,680 person, but he was a fantastic locksmith. You know what I mean? All of them are good 664 00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:20,600 looking. That's what I'm saying.