INTRO
Hello everyone and welcome to the Every Movie Ever Podcast.
My name is Ben Groves.
And my name is Rob Macfarlane.
Welcome to the show, a movie podcast slash mental health check-in.
Yeah.
The two broken brained best friends talking around their problems,
but not about their problems whilst laughing at movies.
Yeah.
So before we get to what we're doing, Ben,
I feel we should ask the more important question.
How are you doing?
I'm really good, man.
Like I'm hitting a stride and I don't understand why.
I'm just, I'm feeling it.
Nice. Nice. How's the lung?
It's good, man.
I want to go for another check-up yesterday.
They were sort of super sombre about it though.
They were like, yeah, you need to pack an overnight bag
because we're probably going to end up cutting you open.
You know, put a tube in your chest to drain out all the excess air.
But when you talk dirty.
And I was like, well, that doesn't sound that bad.
You tubed it. It is that bad.
It's awful.
Luckily though, I'm just hashtag built different.
And it's fixed itself in it.
Well, nearly. It's got better.
Yeah.
And they're like, yeah, we'll monitor you.
We'll just give it a month.
Don't go to the gym.
Don't go this, that and the other.
And I was like, I think it's the Crea team that's fixed it.
If I'm honest with you.
It's not.
I think it is.
But yeah, how are you, man?
How are you?
Well, I'm in a toxic relationship with you.
Well, with me?
With a bit of you.
Hold on. What bit?
Because when your lung was collapsed.
Right.
I was living the dream.
What do you mean?
And now your lung is fixed itself.
And now I've collapsed.
My mental health has been the fit.
Oh, buddy.
And it lined up perfectly with your lung healing.
And I'm beginning to wonder if me and your lung are in a codependent relationship.
Oh, man.
And I'm not going to be down in the dumps through the episode.
I'm still keen to put out a good show and all this kind of thing.
But what I do is I just mask.
I just constantly masking.
So this is me strapping on a mask, which is convenient this week because what are we doing?
First off, I'm genuinely sorry that my lung has got you in this.
Caught in a trap.
I'm not sure it's your lung.
There's some other stuff going on that this to be fair, it's this film.
Okay.
But let's get into that.
Understandably.
What is the film?
Help me mask here.
What's the film?
Well, this week, buddy, we're getting introspective with a surprise indie darling episode discussing everything about a different man.
Which man?
A different one.
Okay.
Not you.
Not that one.
Okay.
No, not that one.
Different man.
Okay.
Now, Ben, not everyone likes everything.
Chihuahuas.
Piranhas.
Anacandric.
Brexit.
Pineapple on pizza.
That's right.
So if you, dear listener, hear us cry pineapple, it's just a short bit of the chat.
It might not be to everyone's taste.
And it's less about the film than a brand new listener might need.
But not to worry, the full spicy Hawaiian version of every episode is available over on Patreon days beforehand.
With all the pineapple you could ever want.
The lowest tier is literally one pound.
It is the most direct way to support the show.
Yeah.
It's the most important way to support the show next to telling your mates about it.
You know what I mean?
Get them, get them chappers flapping.
That's the most important.
Likewise, our potty mouths are going to be censored in this version of the episode.
But you can hear all the bad words you like on Patreon.
Like.
Yeah, there it is.
There we go.
That's the time.
That's the time where Ben says the word and I have to censor it.
Look, we've got too much to get into this episode.
I know. I'm not going to sing the ukulele song.
Can we do it at the end?
It might cheer me up.
I'll do it at the end.
We've got to get into how Sebastian Stan helped get this movie off the ground.
We're going to get into what writer director Aaron Schimberg has to say about his creation.
The impact that this film carries with its very open interpretations.
How we are all, both Edward and Guy.
And the symbolism of everything.
Literally everything.
Everything in this film is a symbol for something.
Right.
It's infuriating.
It's a deep rabbit hole.
I need to get out of it.
Yeah, I kind of wasn't expecting you to bring this film.
And now that you have, I'm not sure I like that you have.
Well, we did social network last week, you know what I mean?
True.
Yeah, okay.
One for me, one for you.
I get that.
Where did this come from, Ben?
Why are we doing this?
To be honest, mate, this came so far out of left field.
We've had a rare week free up in the schedule.
And this little film has been on our radars for a while.
We've both said that we want to watch it.
We both love Sebastian Stan.
Weirdly, yeah.
We stan Sebastian Stan.
I thought we'd get...
Hated that.
I thought we'd give this...
Of course you did, it's my joke from six months ago.
Yeah, I know.
Yes.
So I thought we'd give this a go.
A seemingly quirky indie romp.
A little, you know, nice narrative from A to B about self-reflection and self-love.
Ho ho ho!
But little did we know!
Yeah, it's not that.
It's not that.
And...
No!
We're going to break it down later, but we're going to say this multiple times before we get to that breakdown.
You need to watch this film.
You need to.
I really don't know what you're going to get out of the episode that follows this chat that we're having right now with you, dear listener.
If you haven't seen the film...
Look, there's something in it for everyone.
But the point is that this film deserves to be watched.
Not just by cinema addicts, not by like kings of Kino...
Like me.
Every single person should watch this film because it is genuinely, genuinely universally relatable
and universally relevant.
It doesn't matter what mood you're in.
It will hit you square in the feels.
And you know that if Ben is saying it, this really is a film for everyone.
Exactly.
Because I'm into nonsense.
I love nonsense.
Right.
If Ben's recommending an arthouse film, it's got to have something going on.
It's like me recommending a B horror movie.
The second that happens, A, I'm probably going to come, and B, I will not trust that you've recommended me a fucking B movie for anything.
It just won't happen.
We've got a secret one in the calendar in the chamber that you've never seen.
I've known since it came out that I'm excited for, but they'll have to wait to know what that is.
Yeah.
There's a name attached to this movie.
There is.
It comes up all the time.
And you've written...
You've written...
I can see their little headline in the note.
Who is Aaron Schimberg?
I'm hoping that you have the answer to that.
And that's not just a general question.
That's a question for you, dear listener.
Do some work yourself.
No, I'm joking.
So writer-director Aaron Schimberg is a famed indie director with a well-deserved and loyal cult following.
I've heard of him recently because me and my friends, we do like a little movie club, boys night, mental health check-in every week where we all pick a different movie, but it's in a certain genre.
It's cute as fuck.
Yeah, it's quite cute.
I've been to one.
They do like foot massages.
It's super homoerotic.
There's no feet.
Why is everything about feet with you?
Because you hate it.
Yeah, I don't trust that.
I think you're into feet.
I'm onto you, buddy.
I've always been nonplussed.
I don't trust it.
The people who are into feet claim that they find feet disgusting.
It's like a Republican claiming that they hate the gays.
Sure.
They're like, oh, it's disgusting.
It should be illegal.
And then you look at their WhatsApp chats and you're like, oh, yeah.
Whereas I'm just like, fine.
It wasn't that gay.
He was sucking my dick.
So anyway, Aaron Schimberg's built up this loyal court following.
I've heard his name a couple of times recently.
We just did Art House at the Little Boys Night thing.
I haven't watched any of his other films.
He broke out in 2013 with a directorial debut called Go Down Death, which
is like an indie black and white art house movie.
Why haven't you watched that, Ben?
That sounds exactly like your real house.
It's super surreal.
Black and white art house?
Yeah.
See, I'm branching out.
I'm into art house at the minute.
You're getting there, yeah.
I'm into it.
Then he wrote and directed Chained for Life, which stars Adam Pearson in 2018.
Adam Pearson, he's the fella in this, right?
He's the fella in this.
He was also in Under the Skin.
OK.
This film holds a 100% on Rotten Tomatoes.
Nice.
Hugely critically successful.
I've not seen his other films, but we need to do a series on him immediately.
OK, maybe let's watch those films first and then decide.
No, we're just going to go in blind.
Fully invested.
Let's go.
OK, brilliant.
Yeah.
It came out this year, Ben.
So normally, at this point, we do like, oh, if it's 2010, well, it's 2010 and we set the stage.
I don't think we need to do that this week.
It's literally...
It's 2024, my tiny, infant, pinked, faced, fresh out of the womb baby otter with the eyes of a crab.
And Red One is released into the cinemas to raise everyone's Christmas spirits while simultaneously demonstrating everything that is wrong with modern day Hollywood.
Seriously, have you seen it?
If not, don't.
Of course I haven't.
If so, I'm sorry.
Ben, of course I haven't.
It's terrible.
What makes you think I'd see Red One?
It's awful.
Don't go.
It's 2024, buddy.
Yeah.
And America has voted in their Toxic X back into the office.
Both to the amusement and to the horror of the rest of the world.
It's kind of like watching a car crash.
You don't want to see it, but one of the drivers owes you a fiver.
So you're just waiting for the prime opportunity to like get in there and pinch it back from the wallet.
You see, it started there and I was worried that we were going to get political and then it just turned into the ramblings of an insane man.
So well done.
Someone owes me a fiver and I saw him drive past me earlier and all I was thinking was I would take that out of your wallet if I saw you crash.
Okay, nice.
It's 2024 and no one, I mean, no one thought that 2024 was going to be the year it has been for body horror.
I mean, you say that.
You got single this year.
Everyone was expecting body horror.
There.
That was mean. I take that back.
Sorry.
I was going to say, Jesus Christ.
That cut way deeper than I thought it was going to.
I'm having a bad time Ben and I get mean when I'm not in a good space.
Just let me read the rest of my paragraph in a sad, sad mumble tone because Jesus, we pack my tits away, shall I?
Get out my B cup.
Support bra.
I'm sorry.
Just off the top of my head, bud.
Body horror movies from this year.
Substance, Cuckoo, Sting, Smile 2, Lisa Frankenstein.
But most importantly, a different man, a different kind of body horror, more of an internal body horror.
This is going wildly, wildly off track.
One that's instilled in all of us.
It's still a body horror.
No, come on.
Cuckoo crab man, it's 2024 and Aaron Schimberg is given an undisclosed amount of money.
Or if you want to trust some janky article that we found online that says 550,000,
but we don't entirely trust that and you will find out why we don't entirely trust that.
In our upcoming Gone Girl episode in a few weeks.
Right.
So sorry, I lost the course of this sentence.
It's 2024.
He got given some money to make this banger of a film, a different man.
Right.
That was that worth it.
I agree.
Wholeheartedly worth it.
Nice hike through a field of treacle.
Yeah.
Enjoy.
Sticky.
Right.
This is a heavy spoiler warning right now.
We've given you a little one before.
There's a spoiler warning that's coming.
There's the themes of this film in order to talk about them.
We have to get into the film.
There is no two ways about it.
I was up until five o'clock this morning trying to figure it out.
It doesn't work.
I'm sorry.
You're going to have to watch the film.
Not just that.
It's incredible on so many different levels.
Please watch it.
Yeah.
It's support this type of cinema because this needs to be made more because otherwise we're going to end up with Red 1 too.
And it's not going to happen, Rob.
I'm not sitting through it.
Would that not be called Red 2?
No, because that's modern Hollywood, mate.
Now you see me.
Now you don't.
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
The other reason I would recommend that people watch this film is because it has ruined my mood and possibly...
You could have said life.
Well, I was going to go on to that, but thanks for stealing the punch line.
Welcome.
It's made me question big parts of my life.
I'm not in a good place.
And as much as I'd like to blame you along, I think it is this film.
I think this film has essentially ruined my life, Ben.
Okay.
I'm going to say this in a nice way.
Yeah, please do.
Because obviously I'm desperate to get into that because I feel like this episode is going to help with it.
It better.
But the rebuttal that my lung has for you is...
Haaaah.
I can take deep breaths, bud.
No yawning, no coughing, just a deep breath.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
That pink fleshy bat that is thriving in there.
Yeah.
I need a deep breath now.
Should we get into the breakdown?
Let's do it.
We're having a breakdown.
The story revolves around Edward, played by Sebastian Stan, although you would not know that in the first half of the story.
Sebastian Stan plays Edward, a man with neurofibromatosis who undergoes facial reconstructive surgery.
The physical transformation is meant to help him integrate into society more easily, but it leads to an identity crisis.
The procedure changes how others perceive him, but Edward struggles internally with scars of alienation and self-loathing, which aren't resolved by his new appearance.
Post-surgery, Edward becomes fixated on an actor played by Adam Pearson, who in real life does suffer with neurofibromatosis.
He does?
Petrain him in a stage play about his life. The play is written by Ingrid, who is played by Renata Rainsve?
Rainsve?
Yeah.
Renata.
Yeah, that one?
Yeah.
She's an aspiring playwright who initially befriends Edward.
However, her intentions appear exploitative as she uses his personal struggles for her creative material, creating tension between her empathy and her opportunism.
Yeah, she writes the play that Adam Pearson's character Oswald ends up starring in, playing Edward, which is so bizarre and recursive and brilliant and David Lynchian and all this kind of stuff.
Edward's obsession with his representation in the play about his pre-surgery life and his unredeolved trauma culminate in a series of self-destructive actions.
His internalised anger and feelings of betrayal sort of push him into the edge, essentially, with the film exploring themes of authenticity, social acceptance and the limits of personal reinvention.
It's making me sadder, Ben. This is making me sadder.
I've tried to keep the film out of it to avoid that scenario, but now I see my mistake.
As you were reading that out loud, I was like, oh, I see my issue.
So apologies for that one, but that is essentially the film.
I thought this film, when you brought it, was going to be a slightly overly sentimental.
Yeah.
Oh, people with weird faces are people too.
And it's going to be because I knew nothing about Sebastian Stan or his role in the film.
I thought he was going to be a I'm an attractive Sebastian Stan man and I've made a friend.
And in the process of meeting this friend, I realised that he's got a full and rich life.
So Sesame Street, you thought this was going to be Sesame Street?
I thought it was going to be tiptoes with Gary Oldman.
Sebastian Stan is the twin brother.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
I thought it was going to be a Hallmark movie.
I would pay so much money to see that film.
I thought it was going to be a Hallmark movie about neurofibromatosis.
Okay. And what did you get out of it?
What was your initial reaction to this?
It was a David Lynch-ian surreal nightmare.
Right.
Describing all the ways in which my life is wrong and all the ways in which I am trapped forever.
Okay.
Yeah.
So A, this is good.
This is good.
And I will tell you why it's good shortly, but it's good.
And I have I have backup on this as well.
I've got backup to let you know that that's a good place to be.
And it's from Adam Pearson and it's from Sebastian Stan and it's from Aaron Schimberg.
You know what I mean?
These are all people that made this film that made you like interpret it this way.
They've all got your back, buddy.
They got you.
I got you too, to an extent, but also I feel like I've caused this.
So at the moment, I kind of kind of thrown you in the deep end there, bud.
You could have just brought a boobs and monsters film, but no.
Beyond was it was this or Beach Babes from Beyond.
It was which one are we going to do?
For the sake of the show, I'm glad it's this, but also for my own sake.
I'm just sorry.
No, it's good.
It's good.
I thought going into this, I thought it was going to be quite a linear A to B story of love yourself.
You're worth what you're worth, regardless of what you look like or who you are or what you stand for.
Shrek.
It was essentially going to be Shrek.
It's kind of what I was thinking.
It was like Stan and Adam Pearson.
I love Adam Pearson.
He was writing under the skin, incredibly entertaining.
Then you've also got Sebastian Stan.
We stan Sebastian Stan.
We do, but I thought he was going to be playing the role of donkey.
Yeah.
And Adam Pearson was going to be playing the role of Shrek.
That's probably a more accurate representation of what I was expecting going in.
OK, there you go.
My beloved monster and me.
Let's not sing the eels.
That's going to make me sad.
But what I got out of it, I did no research going into it.
I hadn't watched the film.
I was just like, yeah, we're doing this.
I hadn't seen it.
I just wanted to.
And then sat down to watch it.
And there were moments where I was literally grasping my own face and audibly, oh my godding.
It was one of them.
It caught me so off guard.
It was unreal.
I wasn't prepared emotionally, physically.
I was a bit tired.
Just wasn't prepared.
I was a bit hungry as well.
You know what I mean?
Wasn't prepared.
But as you said, it's this kind of odd film.
It's an odd film to digest.
It's an odd film to consume.
Because I feel like you have to split it into two.
Right.
There's a clear midpoint.
There is.
There's a clear midpoint in the film.
I think we should discuss this in terms of Edward and in terms of Guy.
So it will be pre-facial surgery, post-facial surgery.
Basically, for those of you who are still here and haven't seen the film, I hate you.
So that you know what we're talking about.
Edward gets his facial reconstructive surgery and he is so wildly different.
He's gone from John Merrick Elephant Man to Sebastian Stan Man.
He's like the wilted soldier.
Unbelievable.
Come on.
I'm so proud of that.
Unbelievable.
That might be your best bit of writing ever.
The wilted soldier?
Yeah.
That's incredible.
But he basically, because people don't recognise him, he claims that the other guy died.
He's like, oh, Edward, yeah, he died.
I'm his friend, Guy.
And he creates this entirely new person.
He completely writes off his old existence and pretends to be a new person.
Yeah.
He embodies a new persona, new identity, new lifestyle, new everything.
And no one is the wiser.
And if that ain't a crying shame that the people that you live with in the same apartment
building don't recognise your mannerisms or your personality at all because you've suddenly
lost a facial disfigurement, it's heartbreaking in itself.
I think the first part of the film, we'll call this part one, internal Edward.
Yeah.
It's very much about how he feels about the world around him.
It is.
How he experiences the world and how that makes him feel.
So Edward is an aspiring actor.
He craves companionship.
He's very shy.
He's very reserved.
Like meek.
We see him living out his day to day life.
We see him shy away from social situations.
He's very aware of people's perception of him in public.
We get a harrowing scene on the train where he just catches everyone either trying to
catch a glimpse or like openly mocking him.
And it's disgusting.
We get all of this just fed to us.
It's immediate as well.
There's no buffer.
When he meets Renata, she comes into his apartment and he's got a typewriter that he's found
and he doesn't really know what to do with it because he's not a writer.
He's an actor.
But in order to test the typewriter's working, he's just written a thing.
And the thing he's written is a little sentence.
He says, they beg me to show my face only until they can turn away in horror.
Unbelievable.
Right.
And he then gifts her the typewriter.
I'll come back to the typewriter because I've got an observation about Renata as a
character which broke me as well.
Good.
Not good that it broke you, but good that you've got an observation.
Yeah.
Normally it's me that cries on this.
I don't cry.
I can't.
It's a problem.
I'm aware that's not healthy.
We'll see.
So after the surgery, we've got Guy.
Guy is now a realtor.
He's into one night stands.
He's into getting blown in bar bathrooms.
He's confident.
He's out and about.
He's sort of strutting his stuff.
But what we get is this insane juxtaposition of the same struggles from a different angle.
He's gone from masking a physical difference to masking his reaction to completely losing
who he is in an uncontrollable desire to be quote unquote normal, but acceptable publicly.
He's had a thing that he thought was the problem, which was his face.
And the face has changed.
But what hasn't changed is the sort of back catalogue of trauma and complexity and shyness
and self-hatred that the face caused.
And he does nothing to deal with that.
No, all the emotional stuff and all the trauma is still there.
He's just changed what he was blaming for the issues.
And there's all sorts of sort of subtle and not so subtle.
He's got a leak in his roof that keeps getting worse and worse and worse.
It starts before he has the surgery, but even after he has the surgery, it continues getting
worse.
It's this kind of representation of the insecurity and the self-hatred and the self-consciousness.
The Oswald character, who is this actor who essentially sort of slowly but surely replaces
him in the play about his own life, written by a woman who doesn't think he's the person
that she wrote it about, even though he is, he just looks different, sort of represents
everything that he could have been if not for the personality issues that he had.
And Oswald is the proof that it wasn't really his face.
It was how he chose to deal with that.
He became internalised, he became self-loathing, he became self-critical.
Here's a guy who's got all of the same problems that he had and everyone loves him.
Even the woman that he's dating ends up dating Oswald.
It's heartbreaking.
It is heartbreaking.
It's disgusting.
Yeah.
So, Aaron Schimberg, done a massive deep dive into this book.
Sit down, strap in, the sad's off and prepare to learn something.
Right, okay.
I've done deep dive.
Why he made this film?
Right.
And this is all from him.
I don't know exactly where it started, but I wanted to work with Adam again.
Adam, in my last film, played a very mild-mannered character, but in person, in real life, he's
a very outgoing person.
So we wanted to write a part that would show off his range.
Right.
So that's Oswald, yeah.
That's one reason why I wrote this film.
Being differently abled himself, he has a cleft lip and a cleft palate.
Yeah.
And he wanted to hold the mirror up and sort of deal with his own battles and his own insecurities,
you know, his own struggle and all this stuff.
And another thing, his last film, Chained for Life, is about an actor who is struggling
to relate to her co-star who has a facial disfigurement played by Adam Pearson.
And people came out of that film and started saying that a few people said it was exploitative.
Right, okay.
Because of the casting.
Right.
And with a cleft palate and a lifelong condition, the criticism was stunning because having
differently abled people play themselves is exploitative.
Right.
And casting able-bodied actors as differently abled actors is wrong.
So are differently abled people just not allowed to be represented in film anymore?
Or what's happening?
Apparently not.
Right?
So he wanted to write this film and it be a believable struggle that people could look
at and go, I did not even consider these angles of the struggles that people go through.
Which is a fantastic way to make a film.
I've also got a little bit here on the inspiration of what this film tackles.
Right.
He cast Adam Pearson, obviously, because he's worked with him before.
He's a fantastic actor.
He's worked with him before.
Wanted to write him a new part.
There's a quote here that I found, which is eye-opening after watching this film.
Right.
And he's a person who doesn't seem to let anything hold him back, who is the life of
the party wherever he goes.
It's inspired me.
But it also gave me an identity crisis.
What could I have done differently?
Have I been wrong this whole time about myself?
Could I have lived my life differently?
Is it still possible for me to live my life differently?
Do I want to live my life differently?
Okay.
So these are all the questions that he was asking himself when he made friends with Adam
Pearson and was like, you're a great actor, I'm going to write you a part.
But he's a prick because he's made this film and now I'm thinking that.
Exactly.
And I hate it.
So long time listeners will know that a couple of years ago I had a major mental breakdown,
ended up going out a window.
It's all in the show, all backwards, round about a cover of the episode, but it doesn't
matter.
A lot of what I thought was happening at the time or thought happened for weeks and months
afterwards, I'm not even sure if that's true or real or whatever.
It was a very spicy time in my brain.
And it ended a 15 year period of me living in London and living in London as a sound
engineer and a music producer, which is something that I'd wanted to do since the age of about
15.
I was talking about my love of Nine Inch Nails in the previous episode.
My love for that band sparked a love of sound and making it.
And since I was essentially a child, I knew what I wanted to do.
I knew what I wanted to be.
I had a mission and I got to London.
And after it all ended, there was such a sense of relief because I wasn't stressed anymore.
I wasn't as unwell anymore.
I was in a quieter place.
And I've kind of felt like, oh, okay, well, you know, but the more and more, more and
more now, I think back and I was so happy in London for a long time.
I mean, at the end, of course, obviously I wasn't.
I was insane.
But when I got there in 2009, whenever it was, like so much good stuff happened.
I went to uni and I met you.
I finished uni.
I got a job doing sound at a dive bar, met a girl, had a great relationship with her,
which all of these ended.
But I'm happy that they happened.
We didn't.
I met Led Zeppelin.
I worked with incredible bands.
I met Jason States, worked with them for years with them.
I worked with Jay Z, Stormzy, Rick Astley.
Like it was the dream.
I made it, you know?
Yeah.
And I can't believe that that absolute dream became a nightmare.
And I lost my mind.
And then I had to end it all at the time, not necessarily literally, but like figuratively.
It was very much an ending.
And then I sort of burned that identity.
I had the facial reconstructive surgery and I went, right, I'm not a sound engineer anymore.
That's what I was since a child.
And it was a bad idea.
I shouldn't have done it.
And it wasn't right for me.
And so I came back to the countryside where for medical and financial reasons since then,
I've been living with a parent and I work as a chef now.
And it's been, like I say, it's been a relief.
It's been, I don't have to worry where the next paycheck is coming from.
I don't have to worry about the constant noise.
Will I finish work before 3am?
Why is channel 77 on the mixing desk distorting and is that client going to walk out because
of it?
How am I going to find my two grand for rent this month?
That all sounds massively, massively stressful.
Right.
But here's the thing.
I've been here.
It's been peaceful.
It's been restful.
But now I'm finding the exact same thing.
I'm getting itchy feet.
I'm feeling a little bit trapped.
I'm planning my next move.
I'm going to try and move up towards Telford for you.
I'm trying another career change.
And then I watched this film and I'm like, is this what my life is going to be?
Just ripping my face off, burning my old identity and then just constantly having to shut the
cup of door on what it used to be.
Because I can't speak to old friends that I had a very healthy, very close, very nourishing
support network of friends in London.
And I can't talk to them because they're all Oswald.
They're all in the exact same space that I was in and they're thriving and they're wearing
lovely shirts and they're getting roles I dreamed of on a stage that I wanted to live
my entire life on.
And at the end of this film where Edward is the same man that he's always been, just older
and lonelier and stuck, realizing that the problem wasn't his face, it wasn't the world,
it was always and will always be him.
And I'm sat there going, thanks Adam Schimberg, you prick.
Glad Ben picked this one.
Right.
There's a lot to unpack there.
I don't think I can sum it up as well as Sebastian Stan does.
I think there's a bit that he said about the film that kind of encapsulates the notion
of this.
We stan Sebastian Stan.
Okay, so this is a direct quote from Sebastian Stan.
I was going to save it till later, but this seems like the opportune moment.
Be more curious about the way you think or be more curious about why you are the way
you are.
I want to challenge people to maybe look at that.
It's very easy to suppress, to deny or sort of not deal with something because it's uncomfortable
or it's difficult.
But whatever the reaction is that you're having, not just to this film, when you're thinking
you know the answer to something, wonder whether you really do.
Because discomfort is good, it means you're growing and it all needs to change.
That's just what life is.
Yeah, well, what does he know?
He's the wilted soldier.
I'm not listening to him.
It was too accurate and it was too on the nose and now I'm rejecting it because I won't
be told then.
I won't be told.
The fact that Sebastian Stan takes on a film role and then gives an interview where he
can quell people's immediate reactions without knowing them makes me think he might be some
sort of demigod wizard person.
I had a similar thing to you, mate.
I freaked out at the end of this film because I was like, I'm cooked.
I don't know what I'm doing.
I'm just constantly masking.
I can't cope with what's going on right now.
And then there's tiny little things.
You phoned me yesterday.
I was at the hospital.
You sent me a voice note saying that you were proud of me because I'd broken a lifelong
habit and I was doing something about my lung, which I would have ignored for years.
I wouldn't have cared.
Do you know what I mean?
At all.
But that thing meant the world to me in a way.
I know it's a stupid little voice note and it's like a throwaway thing, but to me it
was everything.
And it's because of that, because I'm horribly uncomfortable, but I know that you've got
my back going through it all.
Whatever it was before or wherever I was before was amazing for past Ben, who was drinking
a bottle of whiskey a day, who was taking drugs to try and escape reality.
All this stuff, right?
Yeah.
But I'm not that Ben anymore.
Now I'm 36 year old sitting in front of a collection of blue raisin figurines.
End of personality.
You know what I mean?
No, I mean, that's not true.
It's hilarious, but it's not true.
I genuinely feel like you've completed level one.
You smashed it.
You knocked out the park.
You completed level one.
You were like, oh, I want to be a record producer.
And then just casually did it like it was nothing.
It made everyone else infuriated.
But then also you got to that point where everyone around you was like, they're still
not at the peak.
Whereas you hit the glass ceiling straight away and was just sort of like, yeah, I'm
done.
Nah, it was worse than that.
It was worse than that.
It's the, any, any, any job is work.
That's why you get paid for it.
Of course.
There is no job on this planet.
If we continue doing this and it grows over time and it gets to a point where we can sack
off full time employment and do this, it will be no easier than the jobs we have now.
It will in fact be a lot harder.
Yeah, of course.
It will be the worst possible thing that could happen for us.
Being in that position where every, I was having a horrible time because I was turning
up at 10 PM to wait for a client who wouldn't turn up until 3 AM if they even turned up.
It was work and it was horrible and it was stressful.
And I was constantly terrified that I wasn't enough or I wasn't doing it right or that
I wasn't working hard enough or that I was working too hard.
Because when you're making something creative, there's no box that you can tick.
Like I used to feel for the musicians who'd write a song, they'd have no idea how to write
a song.
They'd just give it a go and it would become a massive hit.
And then everyone would go, now do it again.
And they'd go, I don't know how.
I don't know how I did it the first time.
And they're like, yeah, but you lose everything if you don't do it a second time.
Terrifying.
And that's where everyone is that does something creative.
And to have your rent paid that way is brilliant.
But then everyone turns around and goes, oh, you're lucky bugger.
You live in the dream.
Must just be great.
Like you're just, ah, I envy you so much.
It must be brilliant.
And if you go, actually, it's a bit rubbish to go, oh, it's not though, is it?
Because you're not in a factory.
Yeah.
No, I know exactly what you're saying.
And they're right.
I'm not, you know, there's a million and one things that I now miss because I now I am
in a factory.
Yeah.
But you're in a factory, but also you're self-aware enough to look back on all of that stuff and
realize that, you know what I mean?
Chasing the dream down from when you were 15, 15 year old Rob, 1000% that was for him.
Yeah, exactly.
But what business does a 34 year old have doing a 15 year old's business plan?
This is what I'm saying.
So all you're doing right now is you're in a difficult spot because it's like a growth
stage.
It's a change stage where you're figuring out what 36 year old Rob wants to be doing.
I've got no idea what I want to do or who I am and what I can do.
And I don't like, I am in a position where I'm angry all the time and nothing makes me
happy and everything stinks of shit.
And I'm like, hang about if everything stinks of shit, maybe it's my shoes.
Maybe I'm the shit.
Maybe what I'm smelling is me.
Okay.
First off, fantastic use of that phrase.
That's essentially how I live my life now.
Second of all, I'm low key really excited for you.
Okay.
That's terrifying.
No, it's not.
I'm just genuinely...
The shotgun or the toaster?
No, no, no, no, no.
Because I think it's fun to flirt with these ideas and crack these jokes and stuff.
But you're at a point where the stuff that you talk to me about is big.
And I don't think you appreciate how big it truly is to sit and stare in the mirror.
Right now you're not masking.
You're not hiding from stuff.
You're not avoiding stuff.
You're sitting in the mess.
You're staring at the mess and you're going, how do I deal with the mess?
And that is the biggest thing that I think anyone could ever do ever because it's so
hard.
It sucks.
It's the worst thing.
It's also self-indulgent, man.
It has to be.
You have to be.
At some point you have to be.
You can't run around pleasing everyone else, questioning whether you're doing enough for
someone else for the rest of your life.
Because otherwise you're going to end up in an even worse position now.
You're taking charge.
You're holding the reins.
And for the first time in a long while, you're going, maybe I don't just mask it all with
drinking drugs and going out and doing whatever.
No, and I've not done that for a long time.
You haven't.
I'm incredibly proud of you for that.
Well, I'm not so...
I don't say it enough.
Don't get me wrong.
I still partake, but it's not compulsive.
I'm doing this on a Tuesday afternoon because that means I don't have to think.
It's like, no, I'm with company and it's a special event.
Exactly.
So you've got a control on it and a handle on it that I could never grasp.
So I had to go...
But then I think...
Absolutely no.
Absolute zero.
The thing about this is that you used substances to do exactly what I did and were also alcoholic
and an addict where I was masking and gained an addiction.
I don't have the genetic compulsion to keep drinking that you might.
Do you know what I mean?
Like mine was a coping mechanism that I could step away from, which is why I don't have
to be sober, if that makes sense.
Yeah, no it does.
Yet.
I hasten to add, yet.
Maybe.
This time.
You're not going to hear me out now, you might just be built different.
You know what I mean?
Maybe, maybe, maybe.
You might be him.
You know what I mean?
That might be your new calling.
I can just walk around and see a man on the street and just go pathetic.
I'm glad that that's what you took away from this film.
The film that teaches everyone not to judge.
You're like pathetic.
Just going to look at a homeless man and go, weak.
Jesus Christ.
I'm not going to give money to a man who can't handle the sesh.
I'm sorry you didn't get up at 4am and start a business this morning.
How do you even day trade?
Do you know what I mean?
Jesus.
Get a grass buddy.
Get crypto.
You know what I mean?
Last time I gave money to a homeless person was in London.
Well, Bud, I love you wholeheartedly.
This has been eventful and unexpected.
I love this.
Also, I don't often open up because this is unexpected.
I've loved this.
I'm so proud of you.
It's unreal.
Unreal.
Also, I am going to get us back onto the film.
Yeah.
Can you?
Because I'm sweating bullets right now.
No, I can see it.
You're so uncomfortable.
It's glorious.
Because the shoe's normally on the other foot and it's been on the other foot for about
two years.
Yeah.
Hated every second of it.
Welcome to the show, Bud.
So casting Sebastian Stan.
What a transition that was.
More of that to come.
Absolutely brilliant, mate.
Smooth like butter.
Right?
Well, Sebastian actually came to Aaron Schimberg.
Scripts was out and about as scripts normally do.
They circulate, try and gather some interest.
They go out to different agencies and this, that and the other.
Sebastian got the script, said he was interested.
Aaron Schimberg heard this and was like, yeah, but it's Sebastian Stan.
People get interested and then walk away all the time.
I'm not putting any eggs in that basket.
He's incredible.
Yeah.
So then Sebastian set up a conversation with Aaron Schimberg and was like, I love this
script.
Right.
They had a conversation and at the end of it, Aaron was like, okay, so Sebastian Stan
is the one person I've spoken to that really understands what I'm trying to say with the
script.
I love the idea of Sebastian Stan just like floating around Hollywood, like some sort
of fairy godfather being like, I'll lift this script from obscurity because I love it.
Right?
Yeah.
It's essentially what he did.
I mean, I think that's a father sounds like a gay porn parody of a Scorsese movie.
It's already on my watch list.
It's fine.
But Sebastian Stan, Aaron Schimberg said about Sebastian Stan, he was like, it felt like during
the conversation that he was picking up this, that Sebastian wanted to take on the role
to sort of deal with some unkept trauma, some unprocessed trauma that he had dealing inside
of him that he doesn't really get a chance to let loose in other roles.
Well, he does look particularly distressing, doesn't he?
I'm sure.
He's the wilted soldier, mate.
Right.
He probably walks around just going, I'm hideous.
But yeah, so he had his own thing to take on.
Aaron wanted to see where that went.
And this is what we got, which is insane.
But not only did he cast Sebastian based on that, Sebastian went above and beyond for
this film.
He went all out.
He is responsible for getting A24 on board as distributor, which is incredible.
Yeah.
Oh, that was not, that was not.
I spoke too soon.
Now I hate myself.
Get in the pit with me, boy.
Look at you.
Tiny eyes of a crab just disappeared behind this.
I put on weight.
They're getting smaller.
Enormous smile.
God, you're gorgeous.
Look at you.
Like a freshly wanked cock.
It's because I've gone pink because we're talking about me and I don't like it.
Sebastian Stan also went out of his way to reach out to Mike Marino, the prosthetic artist
on this film who did all the, you know, the makeup and effects to work well under his
budget just so that they could get the film done to the, to the standard that they felt
it deserved, which again, Sebastian Stan might be some sort of demigod wizard man.
Fairy godfather.
That's insane.
Fairy godfather.
Yes.
It's just every day is a wedding in Sebastian Stan's world.
Yeah, exactly.
So Sebastian took on the film, he read the script, he found it super complicated, very
complex script, very detailed, revealing new things in a very subtle way.
Scene by scene.
He couldn't pass on it.
Right.
So about that complexity.
Yes.
I want to, I want to pick up one of, I'll just pick a, I've picked a bit of the film.
Any bit of this film is as complex as this.
And when you watch it, but certainly when I watched it, I did not get half of this.
I had to go through, I had to research it, I had to rewatch bits.
I had to fucking, it was insane.
Okay.
The playwright Ingrid.
So Edward, as his physically disabled self gets a neighbor who's a playwright who invites
herself around and very quickly gets familiar.
She notices this little thing on the typewriter.
They begged me to show my face only until they can turn away in horror.
And then they have a chat and she asks him directly about, you know, what's up with your
face.
And then he explains and then they sort of become friends.
And then some time passes and there's a moment where he sort of gets the sense that there
might be a vibe because it's kind of depicted that there might be a vibe.
Yeah.
And then she immediately sort of recoils back.
Right.
And she, she basically ends the friendship there.
He goes gets herself immediately.
He then goes, gets his surgery some time later, says that Edward's died and starts being
gay, gets cast in her play that she's written about this guy, Edward that she used to know.
Yeah.
Right.
Super messed up.
Uh, so it's a little bit like that moment of vulnerability that he shows is Ingrid
begging Edward to show him, show her his true face.
And the second he does, what does she do?
She turns away in horror.
Exactly like the little poem on the typewriter said.
The typewriter, he gifts to her when he bumps into her again, she can't remember where she
got it from.
And she's in fact regifts it later in the film.
She regifts it to Oswald, the guy who ends up bugging him out.
While she's dating Guy, the now attractive Sebastian Stanman version of Edward, she,
she kind of idolizes this fictional Edward, not realizing that she's with the same guy.
Yeah.
Uh, she has a point where she's like, I'll go get the mask when they're in bed.
They're having sex.
She's like, I'll go get the mask.
But it's not because she loves him as a person.
It's because she loves the fictional version of Edward that she's created.
Yes.
It's a kind of narcissist.
She's created this rose tinted spectacles version of what Edward was.
Yeah.
Edited her own role in the history and then wants to reconnect with that.
And she doesn't know that she's got the same man between her legs.
And she ends up laughing him off because it's ridiculous.
Except when Oswald comes along and then she projects all of that fictional Edward stuff,
all of the qualities of fictional Edward that factual Edward never had, she projects onto
Oswald and then falls in love with him.
It's such a deeply layered complex.
Doesn't make sense when we tell you about it, but just watch the goddamn film already.
You should have seen it.
If you're this far into the podcast, you have a thousand percents in it by now.
Because if not, what are you doing?
Right.
What are you doing?
That level of her as a character having her narcissism portrayed by not being able to
love the real Edward because the real Edward's got real problems and real insecurities that
she'd have to help him with.
But fictional Edward can be a little manic pixie dream boy who is a little wilted soldier
that she can mother and fix without having to actually do any of the work for.
She doesn't have to deal with any of the fallout or any of the actual work.
It's insane.
You're right.
And then when Oswald comes along and doesn't have any of those problems, it's perfect because
she gets to virtue signal by being with a bloke who's perfectly functional.
You've just taught me into hating this woman.
She plays a role incredible, incredible.
As does Adam Pearson.
I think we need to take a moment to just realise how incredible Sebastian Stan is in this film,
because it might be the most meta role I've ever seen an actor play ever.
Because Sebastian Stan is an actor who is playing a guy acting as a different guy whilst
trying to be an actor.
He's the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude.
Sebastian to play the original dude.
Yes.
That is the most meta thing that I can think of.
And what I found out about this film is that it was shot so out of sequence that on a day
to day basis, Sebastian would flip between being Edward and being Guy.
So the fact that he managed to pull this off whilst one day being Edward and one day being
Guy and then just keep role reversing is insane to me that he can keep track of any of this.
It's mental because I barely kept track of the film.
I've watched it thrice.
I've watched this three times.
Third time through I was like, I know what's happening.
Still broke me down into a million pieces and built me back up by the end.
It just happened.
I went in so confident third time, ruined me on a different level that I was not expecting.
Again, I'm ready for it.
I'm prepared for it.
Yeah, totally.
If you haven't seen this film yet, this is your preparation warning.
Eat a little bit.
Have a nap.
Wake up.
Sit upright.
Pay attention.
Sit upright.
Anyone who's tuned in at this point and hasn't seen the film is never going to and it's their
loss.
Yeah, that's fine.
That's fine.
But you do get to see full front all nudity of Sebastian Stan for an extended period of
time.
If that's going to sway you.
We do.
You do get to see his little bishop in a turtleneck.
We do.
Carrying the shopping.
We see Sebastian Stan's peen.
Yeah.
Carrying the shopping.
Oh balls.
Yeah, there you go.
I see.
Dude, that caught me off guard.
Look at you.
With your clever ball play.
I've got a little bit here from Aaron Schimberg.
Don't call it that.
So I've got a little bit from Aaron Schimberg on Edward and I've got a little bit from Aaron
on Guy.
Right.
Edward is a more classic version of what we think of as the disfigured character.
Yes.
The way that you internalize that trauma and the way that it damages him for life.
Yeah.
Now, Aaron Schimberg on Guy.
The way that we judge others is the way that we view ourselves.
For half of the movie, Edward is looking at Oswald and thinking about himself.
He's thinking about his disfigurement, but it's also a way of thinking about how other
people look at disfigurement.
They're looking at somebody who's disfigured, who's thriving, and they don't know how to
feel about it.
Is this fair?
Is this person really thriving?
Does this person deserve to thrive?
Right.
Are they taking something from me?
Right.
How can you be thriving with that?
How come this woman loves him and not me when I'm more attractive?
The fact that he's written this film whilst holding a mirror up to his own insecurities
and his own battles, his own traumas, and he's been this vulnerable with it is mind
blowing to me.
This guy has laid everything out on the line completely open and honestly, and it's the
most refreshing film I've seen in years.
It was a strange first watch because I was expecting as it gets more and more surreal,
it begins to make less sense as a linear narrative and it begins to make more sense as a parable
or a metaphor.
Yes.
But then the way it ends is so unresolved that you begin to go, what?
That doesn't tell me anything.
It's only really on rewatches that you realise that it does.
But there's so many little nuggets in there, like there's a neighbour that he sees with
a really attractive woman, but then the neighbour's later seen killing himself and you're like,
what does that mean?
And on repeat watchings, you're like, oh, he's externalising that that guy must be happy.
Look at who he's with.
But then it turns out the guy's not happy, he's suicidal.
And that from an external point of view, you can't tell what's going on on the internal
point of view.
That's exactly it.
There you go.
Brilliant.
But in the first watch, you're just like, what is happening and why?
This is just random, random bits of...
It's like I've got that bag of 1000 tiny plastic babies that I was going to use in case I ever
couldn't win an argument and I could just throw babies.
And it's like a subtext version of that.
It's just like, blah, subtext.
Be impressed.
And you're like, well, that's just shotgun nonsense.
And then as you slowly rewatch it and you realign with it, you're like, oh no, everything
here has meaning.
And it's pinned by excellent performances and it's just a bastard of a film.
It really is.
It's a monster to tackle with.
You're not going into this for an enjoyment.
You're going into this.
It's a heavy, heavy film.
With some hilarious moments.
It's gorgeously funny.
There are so many parts of this that are like outrageously funny for all the wrong reasons.
I won't do it with the Lincoln assassination conversation.
Yeah, right there in the booth.
It had me in bits.
It's just a good film.
Just go watch the film.
Right in the booth.
It's incredible.
How much did this make, Ben?
Because we think it cost half a million.
I can't imagine a niche, a niche, even for A24.
Because everyone's going to go, I'm sure everyone went in expecting Shrek and got David Lynch.
So like...
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So this made 1.14 million at the box office.
Which is an absolute result.
I hate it.
I hate it so much.
I buy into it every time.
Every time.
Well, the reason I love it is that the next time you watch an A24 movie, you're going
to hear it.
No, I'm not.
I'm not going to watch A24 ever again, just in case.
It got 1.14 million at the box office and it received massive critical success.
I said earlier, it received 100% on Rotten Tomatoes.
It also got a 79 out of 100 on Metacritic, which is a respectable...
Metacritic's such a better indicator because Rotten Tomatoes just judges if it's a positive
or a negative review and then gives you what percentage.
So if it gets 10, 51% reviews, 100% Rotten Tomatoes.
Yeah, it's all positive.
That's what I'm saying.
Metacritic, way more accurate.
That's insane.
79 out of 100 for this one, bud.
And it's 100% deserved.
100% deserved.
I have one bit, one closing thought, I guess, would be the thing.
There's a moment at the end of the film where it takes a sharp left turn.
Sebastian's been in an accident.
He's in casts.
He's learning to re-walk.
And whilst he's learning to do this, obviously Oswald has taken him in and is looking after
him and making sure that he's getting everything that he needs.
His physiotherapist is teaching him how to walk.
Again starts cracking like...
Disabled person jokes.
Awful commentary on Oswald's face.
Sebastian Stan, our guy, guy.
He stabs him square in the chest.
He does.
And when that happened, I've never felt such righteous pride flow through my body in any
moment.
In that moment for me, he's looking his old self in the face and he's realizing that it
wasn't his face that was causing him the issues.
It was all the surrounding issues around this.
It's a commentary on how society views differently abled people.
And how that makes them view themselves.
Exactly.
And then when this complete stranger starts cracking jokes about his old face, his own
face on someone else's body, he's like, yeah, you think this is how to go?
Yeah?
Alright, yeah, sound.
I was so lost in the confusion of the David Lynchian bizarreness of the film.
I was just like, what is happening?
Only in the days following that I was like, oh, okay, that's satisfying.
At the time, I was just like, what?
It had all of my synapses firing and it had all the endorphins flowing.
And I was like, not only have you ruined everything to change everything about your physical appearance,
now you're willing to go to jail, serve your time and then reconnect just to protect the
dignity of people.
Like a thrown away comment from some complete random stranger.
It's gorgeous.
It's beautiful.
It's a wonderful moment.
It's an outrageous moment, but it's incredible.
It's literally incredible.
That's my closing thought.
I think the better part of it for me is that Oswald is more confident, more at home in
his own skin, guys in the flat at the time.
And he comes out and he goes, oh, I heard a noise and doesn't notice, doesn't know.
So Edward's worst moment is beneath Oswald's notice.
And that's entirely the relationship between them.
Oswald just skates around not being stuck in the mud, not being in the trenches of what's
going on.
Something can happen where a murder occurs and he's just like, he's Mr. Peanut Butter
from BoJack Horseman.
That's what Oswald says.
But my closing thought on this whole film is that it gives inspiration to sit in the
muck for a bit, deal with your issues and talk to the people you love and try and process
the traumas that you have and then work through your issues to stop you stabbing a physiotherapist
square in the chest.
If that isn't a lesson that I feel like Hollywood is missing out on and that lesson needs to
be taught a bit more, maybe.
I think that's it.
You know what I mean?
That's a good lesson.
That's where I'm thriving, man.
Because I could really stab a physiotherapist right now.
I'm at that point.
I'm seeing you on Saturday.
I'm trying not to insult you.
You know what I mean?
It's fat tens all around from both of us, right?
That's the rating.
Fat ten.
Obvious fat ten.
This is one of the best films I've seen this year.
Yeah, I would agree.
It's one of the most difficult films I've watched this year and it's very rare that a
film has prompted me to open up because as far as vulnerability goes with me, I feel
like you lot all beg me to show my face and when this goes live, I can't wait to see you
all turn away in horror.
This sounds like a challenge now, man.
You're going to get hugged to nothing on Saturday, buddy.
I hate that.
I'm a hugger when I'm masking.
I love hugging other people.
I despise being hugged.
Yeah, tough sh**, bud.
Okay, let me put it a different way.
I love going down on people.
I hate being gone down on.
Yeah, that's fine.
That's a physical thing.
I thought I could trap you in.
I thought I could trap you.
Bro, you're my hetero wife.
You know what I mean?
You're my man wife.
There's no love there.
There's no physical love there.
Like any marriage, it's a dead bedroom.
Oh my God.
I'm going to skip comment corner this week because I want to do something special next
week with our Patreon.
Yes, we've also got a story from Tariq that I want to read out that we were supposed to
read out about the time he went to go see the social network and we covered the social
network and totally forgot that he'd sent it to us because he sent it to us about 10
days before we recorded and apparently that's longer than our memory buffers.
So he's so well prepared that it out prepared us.
You need to send it like 38 hours.
Maximum is 38 hours before we record.
That's when we're in like deep research mode for this.
You know what I mean?
Right.
Yeah.
100%.
All right.
So what I'm going to do next week.
We'll do comment corner.
We should mention we've got a quiz.
We do.
Which you should have heard.
We hopefully live streamed it and if we live streamed it, there's possible that there's
a recording.
Check our socials.
Check our socials because it would have been fun and I'm hoping that we streamed it.
We'll let you know.
If not, you've missed out, we will be doing one again soon.
We will keep you updated on that.
Oh, have I not told you?
No.
Okay.
Poiler.
Wicked.
That's all the time we got.
That is unfortunately guys.
This is all the time we have.
We love and appreciate each and every one of you more than you'll ever know.
If you, if you want to help the show out, feel free to jump over to Patreon, chuck a
quid.
There's a bunch of extra content on there for you.
There really is.
There's a few more, few more avenues where we post stuff.
Well, the deal was is that we, we would keep the like 15, 20 minutes of chaos stuff and
like the personal stuff that we normally edit out of the show.
We'd upload that every week.
But what that's meant is it's supposed to be an extra 15 minutes a week.
There's over like, in its first month, there's, there's well over an hour and a half of extra
content and video stuff and you get to choose, like we're, we're smashing it on Patreon at
the moment.
I'm really happy with it.
I love going into it.
A lot of love going into it.
But also if you, if you can't support us on Patreon, you don't want to support us on Patreon,
that's completely fine.
Completely fine.
If you can tell a friend about the show, give us a rating, a five star rating anywhere that
you listen to the show.
That would help out immensely.
You have no clue how much that helps us.
Yeah.
But we do love and appreciate each and every one of you more than you know.
Thank you so much for hanging out with us.
Thank you.
And to thank you properly for spending an hour of your time with us.
It's not a short amount of time and it's usually at the start of the week.
We know a lot of you listen on a Monday.
So Ben is now going to thank you for spending that hour with us by wrapping the thoughts,
themes and feeling of this week's episode into a Monday motivational pep talk.
While I just tell you to consume.
I can't do it better than Sebastian Stankhans.
So be more curious about the way that you think or be more curious about the way that
you are.
I challenge people to maybe look at that.
It's very easy to suppress, to deny, to sort of not deal with something because it's uncomfortable
or it's difficult.
Whatever reaction it is that you're having, not just to this film, when you're thinking
you know the answer to something, wonder whether you really do know because discomfort is good.
It means you're growing.
It's also what leads to change.
That's what life and that's just what life is.
And there you go.
He's some better than I did because to me it would have been sort of like, fuck it,
stab the physiotherapist, you know what I mean?
Oh, ukulele, ukulele, ukulele.
Ukulele.
Yooka-Laylee!