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Hello everyone and welcome to the Every Movie Ever Podcast. My name is Ben Groves.

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My name is Rob Macfarlane and welcome to the show, a movie podcast slash mental health

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check in for two broken brain best friends talking around their problems, but not about

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their problems whilst laughing at movies. Ben, given that this is a thinly veiled mental

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health check in, we need to start with the more important thing before we get to what

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we're doing, how you're doing, but I feel like this should also be a physical health

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check in. Because I think that rarely this week your mental health is the second problem.

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Yeah, I'm actually, I'm feeling pretty, pretty positive at the minute. I'm just fucking ill.

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I swear, Joe, one. Now I'm worse. I'm just ill. Other than that, I'm all right. Yeah.

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How are you buddy? Yeah. Come on, spill it. It's about that really. No, that's good. I

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scared. I have, I have, it feels good to have come clean. So much better. Wow. That's good

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man. What are we doing this week, Ben? In our quest to cover every David Fincher movie

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ever. We've locked ourselves in the panic room, baby. We've got a lot to get through

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this episode. So we're going to get into how David Fincher doesn't care about this film.

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Is this the perfect date movie? The 100 ways that David Fincher overprepared this movie.

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The 101 things that went wrong. Why Jodie Foster is an acting goddess who we cannot

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relate to. And how David Fincher will always be his worst enemy. Where Fincher at buddy?

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Like what that man do? I've, I've, I've, I've got some, I've got some notes on this, bud.

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What has he been doing? Do you remember last time when I was like, well, basically he just

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launched straight into the next film. Yeah. Well, he basically did that again, except

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amazing. Except he directed a music video for the ever incredible perfect circle for

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the song Judith. Absolutely mint video. Great video. Probably the last use of his fight

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club aesthetic with the bleach bypass process and all that kind of dirty graininess. He

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was shortlisted by Columbia pictures as one of the potential directors to helm Spiderman.

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His pitch was an older experience version of Spiderman in his adult years. Yeah. Post

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the adolescent stuff. Yeah. Uh, he wanted character driven drama oriented tone. Amazing

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with a 10 minute title sequence tackling Peter Parker's backstory and featuring green goblin

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killing Gwen Stacy. Wow. Wow. He later said of his pitch, I went in and told them what

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I might be interested in doing and they hated it. I still kind of want to see that film

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right? Well, if you want to see that film, the there's a film that never got made called

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passengers. And I know some of you out there might be thinking that that's the Chris Pratt

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Chris Pratt and Jennifer Lawrence in cell on a boat, but it's not super fun. Right.

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It's a, no, this is set in 1987 and I'll quote for three years, people on earth have been

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subject to the will of the passengers, in verb commas, intangible beings who usurp human

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bodies temporarily and without warning and do nothing but play and cause havoc. People

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being ridden are ignored by others and when they are freed, the experience by social convention

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is ignored by all. God, I want to see that film. That sounds amazing. What? But instead,

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what if it was set on a spaceship and it was Chris Pratt, fuck zoning Jennifer, Jennifer

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Lawrence. Yeah. To be fair, sentencing her to death, but she's a bit fit to damn it.

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I think it's three. I might've knocked on out in there by accident. That's about that.

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After we just talked about passengers. Now, when, when, when did this come out? That caught

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me so off guard. That was amazing. It's 2002 buddy. Who is it? It is M and M is providing

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an era of hip hop that we won't love as much as it deserves until years later when we've

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seen how bad it gets after this George W. Bush is trying to find allies for an invasion

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of Iraq that he promises for realsies guys will do really, really well for super. We're

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all bored of playing snake on our Nokia 33 tens because it doesn't have micro transactions

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yet. We can buy swappable covers for the phone. That's pretty good time. That's a pretty good

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time. David Fincher is given $50 million to make the panic room buddy. It's again panic

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room. I know you love slapping another in front of things, but then you know, I mean,

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the Beatles makes it better. The kinks even better kinks sounds off the kinks. I'm in

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now. I mean, all right, fine. Yeah. You've seen this film for years, right? You love

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this film. You've known this film since, since 2002. No, this is my first time watching it.

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Shockingly. I have not been massive into Fincher. Okay. He was films have caught me and I've

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been sort of like, yeah, buddy. Right. Okay. This one hadn't seen it. And in 2024 watching

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panic for the first time, right? Aggressively fine super middle of the road. Like the story

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is thin and kind of nonsensical at times. And that's, that's fine. That's, I get it.

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Right. It's entertaining enough to get to the end. Right. But I've been spoiled by decades

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and decades of home invasion movies. Watching this in 2024 is very close to what I imagine

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the experience of watching avatar will be like in 20 years. Yeah. Like this film pushed

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forward directorial techniques and like it was an insane looking film for the time. Yeah.

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All the stuff that he does in this film is now totally do-re-go. Like everyone does that

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stuff. Right. Yeah. So this is why. Right. But like avatar in 20 years, people were like,

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yeah. And, but it's like, yeah, but at the time you went to the cinema and it was like

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fireworks. It was wow. 3d was working. Yeah. And this same, when I watched it, it was a

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perfectly fine film, but I do, I wasn't like, wow, what a great film panic room is. Yeah.

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But I do remember it being one of the first films I ever watched where the look of the

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film stuck with me. Oh, okay. Like suddenly I was, I was aware of more than plot or acting

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as being part of the ingredients of a film. Yeah. I was like, oh wow. It's also how the

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frame looks like what's in the frame. How is it composed? It's like me when I saw my

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first 35 millimeter film, I was like, wow, reds are red. Huh? Now for the benefit of

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those people that haven't seen this and aren't planning to all the people that have seen

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it and just don't plan on rewatching it in order to listen to this episode, we should

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break down what happens in it. Now, Ben, we spoke about the film earlier and you were

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like, yeah, it's not, it's not, it's not really much going on in it is it's just a home invasion

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film. So what I've done this week is I've written a breakdown with all of the subtext

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and then that way everyone's on board, right? Oh yeah. I'm here. I'm here for it. I'll

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start. I'll start. Here's the jingle. Panic Room centers on Meg Altman, a recently divorced

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woman and her diabetic teenage daughter, Sarah, as they move into a high-end townhouse in

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New York city. Imagine that. Imagine someone mentioning you being like, oh yeah, my, not

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my friend Ben, my diabetic friend Ben. That's one of your adjectives. Like honestly, I'd

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be flattered. I'd be like that man cares about my health. You know what I mean? The house

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is equipped with an expensive high tech panic room designed to keep its occupants safe in

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case of an emergency. This room becomes the focal point of the film when three intruders,

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Burnham, Junior and Raul break in seeking a hidden fortune in the house, a fortune they

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are denied by Meg and Sarah's need for safety. Subtext. Okay. I'm with you. I'm with you.

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I'm hearing what you're putting down. Am I going to pick it up? Let's see. You will if

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I've written it. Yeah. Meg uses the room's advanced surveillance and communication technologies

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into common Sony CCTV. It's 2002, Ben. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. My bad. My bad. My bad. Uses

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the advanced surveillance and communication technologies to monitor the intruders, but

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these advantages prove limited as the criminals become more determined and more resourceful

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as the situation escalates. Sarah's diabetes becomes a key issue as she requires insulin

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that is outside the panic room, adding urgency to the narrative. The intruders, particularly

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Burnham who has experienced with security systems, try various methods to break into

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the panic room, starting smart and ending up with brute force as they become increasingly

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desperate. In the third act, Meg is forced to leave the safety of the panic room to retrieve

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Sarah's medication. This leads to direct confrontation between Meg and the intruders, ending with

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Burnham and Raoul now locked inside the panic room with Sarah on the edge of a diabetic

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coma and Meg outside with a gun. Burnham, the most conflicted of the criminals, shows

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some reluctance to harm Meg and Sarah, but Raoul's more aggressive behaviour highlights

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the darker, more desperate side of the class he represents. The film concludes with the

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police arriving just as the situation reaches its breaking point. Burnham, who tries to

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steal the money, is caught while Meg and Sarah are left physically safe but shaken.

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To recap, a rich divorcee with too much money buys a house with 22 million dollars in bearer

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bonds hidden in a safe she doesn't know about inside a panic room she doesn't want, and

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three upstanding, working class, proper blokes walk in. She gets all shirty about it like

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a right bitch. More upper class propaganda about rich people I can't care about because

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money makes you not a person.

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I'd say there's an accurate representation of your feelings, Ben.

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Kinda.

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No, I think it's there if you want to pick it up. The idea that their money and their

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resources makes them safe, and the people outside of the representation of that money

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and safety are desperate for some safety of their own, but it's in the box. And how do

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you get into that box as a working class person? Do you do it by being a monster like Raoul?

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Do you do it by being an empathetic person like Burnham?

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As a class allegory, it's pretty thin, but it's there.

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It is pretty thin, bud. It's pretty thin.

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Well, I think intentionally. Fincher initially accepted the project because Fight Club, which

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was his previous film, was 150 separate locations. Now bear in mind how many takes this guy likes.

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Exactly.

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150 different places. He said his whole experience at Fight Club was just waiting for trucks

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to be unloaded.

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And Panic Room was entirely self-contained. Fincher doesn't write his scripts. He doesn't

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have that kind of interest. What he does is he acquires scripts and goes, that's a good

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test bed for what I'm doing. And this allowed him to plot out every shot, handpick every

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single bit of equipment. Oh, that's expensive and new. I've not used that before.

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I love that.

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He said to The Guardian in 2002, a movie is made for an audience and a film is made for

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both the audience and the filmmakers. I think that the game is a movie and I think Fight

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Club's a film. I think Fight Club is more than the sum of its parts. Whereas Panic Room

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is the sum of its parts. I didn't look at Panic Room and think, wow, this is going to

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set the world on fire. These are footnote movies, guilty pleasure movies, women trapped

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in a house movies. They're not particularly important.

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That's a bang on representation of how I felt at the end of this film. I was like, that

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is utterly pointless, but fine.

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Right. He said, I sort of feel like all movies, you have to go in with the idea that this

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isn't the one that defines you. Because I think people get too caught up in the legacy

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that they're leaving. And that's why I like thrillers. This is a popcorn entertainment

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movie for him that allows him to play with his toys. He's like, give me just one location

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and all of your equipment and I will just have fun and learn some stuff. Push myself.

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I love this. I love all of this. For me personally, this was a huge step in a direction that I

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did not see coming. It's a pure date movie. You know what I mean? You go to the cinema,

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it doesn't matter whether you miss a line of dialogue or not. It's just, oh yeah. You

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don't turn your brain off completely, but the twists and turns sort of, you see them

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coming about half a mile away. Right. So you can sort of like, there's a bit of playfulness

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to it. And I like that. I like those movies. They're fun. But Fincher's films before this

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have gone from like big to bigger, right? Alien three to seven, huge step up seven to

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the game, enormous step up. Cause now you've got San Francisco as one man's back garden.

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You've got the game to fight club was enormous. Cause like you've just said, 150 locations,

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the amount of reshoots and stuff would have been insane. And now you've got this tiny,

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tiny claustrophobic set that like feels minuscule in comparison to all of his other works. Oh

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God. Yeah. And that's great. That's awesome. It shows that he can do the big and the loud

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and he can do the, the in your face. He can do him and it can do them all well, right?

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He can do them great. Right. But now we can also do the very quiet and the intimate and

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the closed off you are in a fish bowl. The cats are swiping at the tiny fish in this

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tiny bowl. Right. And that's an incredible thing to do. So, uh, Hitchcock for me is a

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big reference here. Okay. Kind of like thriller set with it's all tone is all ambience. It's

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all that kind of nervousness, which you get in a lot of Hitchcock movies where it's not

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necessarily what's being shown. It's what's not being shown. And you're like, Oh my God,

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they're outside the gate. Yeah. The joy of this film for me isn't in the plot whatsoever.

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Right. Okay. Like Fincher, I see it as a pretty boilerplate. It's a good script. It'll do

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well as a date movie bearing in mind he's coming. We kind of look at panic room as the

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follow up to his magnum opus fight club. Yeah. But at the time this was the follow up to

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his massive flop fight club. Yeah. That critics hated. Yeah. And everyone said was a violent

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celebration of everything that's wrong with toxic masculinity. That's crazy to think about

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that out loud. Do you know what I mean? This is, this is him kind of having to go, no,

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I'm still a safe bet. Yeah. Look, here's your date movie. Yeah. But also I do, I see this

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as the first film that looks like a David Fincher film. Right. Seven and fight club

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look very similar, dirty, noisy, loud. They're quite stylized. Yeah. There's quite a lot

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of like, I'm just going to call it out for what it is. Peak nineties. It's peak chin

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stroking in the, in the, in the look. But he's also got this weird seven ease grit that

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it's almost like the, you know, like bullet and stuff like this, like they all like grit

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films. It's that done in a higher definition. Both of them are quite reactive styles. Yeah.

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This film looks like Gone Girl and like the social network and like every other film he

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does going forward. Okay. This is the first David Fincher looking film, which is a kind

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of original style. And there's a reason for that. Okay. So the house that this is set

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in was built on a soundstage in LA. All right. Uh, by a guy called Arthur Max who'd just

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come off the back of gladiator, right? So he's just designed like massive, massive sets.

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And then he's like, do one house his 15 weeks and $6 million Arthur go wild. So every room

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in the script was designed for the angles that David Fincher wanted. Okay. The height

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of the cast was worked in. So it was also right. So he's, we built this house based

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on the height of his actors, where his cameras are, the size of his cameras is literally

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a custom play room for a director. Amazing. He then models the entire house and CG so

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that he can do the shots ahead of time called previous basically where he has a virtual

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camera in the CG house. And he goes, right, well, if I put the camera here, what can I

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see? Where will I need to light? Where can I put my actors? That's incredible. So he

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makes a low budget CGI puppet theater version of the movie first, right? With how deep the

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focus is going to be, how bright the lights would need to be over two thirds of the shots

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in this film were pre-visualized. That's not, he wanted the film. He basically originally

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wanted the film to be done in pitch darkness, right? Like as dark as possible, but then

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realize that wasn't going to work. So he wanted it barely lit. Well, like looking naturally

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dark, but you're still able to see what's going on. That's not the sort of thing you

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can nail on the day. No, because especially this is on film. This isn't digital yet. This

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is his last movie on film. So he doesn't necessarily get to see what the negative looks like until

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a little while later. That's a gamble man. So he gets everything ready. Everything is

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prepped. Right. And then it all goes wrong. So 18 days into filming, his lead actress,

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Nicole Kidman, right? Discovered that she's got a knee injury from her last movie, Moon

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on Rouge, which means she can't work outstanding. Like it's killing. Uh, there's a screen actors

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guild strike on the horizon. So he's got to find a replacement rapid. Oh, I see. Jodie

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Foster quits her position as president of that year's calm film festival and gets to

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set with nine days of prep. Wow. Uh, all of Fincher's shots that he's pre-visualized

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are for an actress who's considerably taller than Jodie Foster. Wait, Kidman's taller

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than Foster? Yeah, by quite a way. Okay. The laser detector in the door for the panic room

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is literally lines up perfectly with the height of Jodie Foster's eyes. Yeah. Every time she

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runs in and out, she keeps blinding herself to finish the take. She finds out five weeks

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into being on set that she's pregnant. They've now got a shoot around that. Okay. Christian

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Stewart's mid puberty. Right. So she grows about four inches from the start of the start

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of the shoot to the end. Jesus. Okay. These are all things that like Fincher can't, you

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can't control actor getting a knee injury. You can't control somebody being in puberty.

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You can't control somebody being pregnant. Not yet. I imagine the second you can with

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AI Fincher's going to go all over it. And then we get into like Fincher's love for take

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after take. So like 2000 unique camera setups, pulling down the lights, camera diffusers,

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electrical, hold on, hold on, setting up for a new angle 2000 times on one film. 2000 individual.

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Yeah. For this film. For this film. And then also each, each setup is hundreds of takes.

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So you know, there's a scene where Raoul is trying to smash into the panic room. Yeah.

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From underneath. Yeah. With the sledgehammer. With the sledgehammer. Yeah. They took two

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days filming that one scene. It's 30 seconds. If that. It's not even that. It's not even

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that. But he wanted take after take. But of course they've got to reset the ceiling every

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time he wants to do a new take. How? That's insane. Cause he's breaking wood and everything

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else and plaster. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They just built huge numbers of ceilings. That's insane.

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And we just slot them in. There's, there's a five second shot in this movie. Yeah. Which

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is when Meg is attacked by Raoul and she drops Sarah's medical kit. It's less than five seconds.

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Yeah. Over a hundred takes. That. Okay. Cause he didn't want it to look like Meg through

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the kit. He wanted to make it look like she lost it. Right. But it also needed to land

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in frame and in focus for his very narrow aperture, shallow depth of field shot that

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he'd set up on the floor. Jesus, man. All right. I don't. Okay. This is, this might make me

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sound like amateur when it comes to like filmmaking, techniques and stuff. How much did it help

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doing the 200 takes? Like is it? I think realistically, if you've got a shot low on the floor with

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a really shallow focus, right. So something needs to land pretty accurately. Yeah. Trying

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to get it. So your actor doesn't look like they're throwing it like a, like a ring toss

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into focus, but they're legitimately having a fight and dropping it. Right. I don't know

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how much I care. Same. You see what I mean? Like how much does it bring to the table when

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it's less than five seconds of the film? But then I think it also helps with that suspension

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of disbelief where it doesn't look like you're watching someone do acting. Okay. I get that.

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And when, when, when it looks like when you're in, when you're invested in it and then suddenly,

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you know, Jodie Foster carefully tosses a medical kit across the room whilst having

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a fight with a, with a mental ski mask guy. There was many times that snapped me out of

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it before that moment. And I'm not going to lie. That was not even on the list of things

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that might have brought me out of it. Had it looked like she'd thrown it a little bit,

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to be fair, it might make sense that she thrown it because it's just sort of like my daughter's

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in there. I'm not getting in there. She needs a meds. There you go. Get it in. You know

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what I mean? And that it still would have made sense. Yeah. It still would have been

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like, okay, maybe she can like appeal to the humanity of the criminals that are in the

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room with her daughter now. Yeah. That would have been fine. Um, there's speaking of this,

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I've done a little bit of research on Fincher himself and I've got, okay, I've got a quote

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from him here based on what you've just said. Right. Um, I was watching through the director's

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commentary because they're insane with him in them because he doesn't talk about the

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film that's happening. He talks about how the ideas arrived to him and they are insane.

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Like it is pure, just, it's the most unhinged director's commentaries that you can get your

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hands on because it's mental. Huge amount of effort he goes through for the smallest

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things. He's a nerd. He's a nerd and I love it. I just love the fact that I think, I think

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what Fincher enjoys is the process of filmmaking, which is incredible. He'll just do whatever

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he needs to do to make sure that he gets another go at the process of filmmaking, figuring

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out what he can do. Cause that's what he finds interesting. Yeah. I love that. Can I do this?

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Will this work? I suppose I'd better pick a script to pick a script that will let me

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find out. The only thing I'll say about it is I watch films to escape, right? A little

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bit of escapism. Yes. I've immersed myself in the universe. It's not necessarily my own.

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It gives me a break from reality. That's why I watch. That's why I like movies rather than

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films, right? Right. Yeah. I appreciate filmmaking all day long. I'm not a big nerd into it.

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I'm more of like in universe. You don't love cinema. You're just like, ah, help me turn

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my brain off so I could not be me. Yeah. And whatever it is, you watch films like you watch

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YouTube, you know, it could be Dr. Disrespect as much as it could be David Fincher or Nolan.

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It's all the same. I don't think we can watch Dr. Disrespect anymore, buddy. I think, I

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think I was out of pocket. It's more like I love movies. I like films, but I love movies,

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right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So with that in mind, I went, I went looking through the

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director's commentary and I, there's this one bit where he's talking about, there's

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a big propane explosion inside of the panic room, which was mental. It was one of the

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main things that pulled me out of the immersion, but it was fine. I can see that yet. Yeah.

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Because they wrap themselves in fire blankets and set fire to propane that's actively being

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pumped into the room. Also propane sinks doesn't float. So like getting on the floor breathing

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is literally the worst place to be. Exactly. But get up, right? Stand up. It's fine. Anyway,

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the immersion broken to the side. Fully. Yep. Right. After the propane explosion, Fincher

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chimes in with this thing and he's talking about the light in within the panic room.

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It's obviously like it's lit with fluorescent lights. Yes. And this is a direct quote from

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him and I just, it's one sentence. It's going to take me a minute to get through it because

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it is long. This is a quote from Fincher regarding the flickering lights in the panic room after

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the explosion, right? Okay. We had this flickering light effect because we wanted after the explosion,

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we wanted one of the fluorescents to be screwed up in some way. And it ended up being such

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a hard thing to cut around because you wanted it to be erratic. But sometimes it just felt

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like when you cut the lights had been off for too long or were flickering too fast or

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something, it was one of these things that you think is going to be a really good idea,

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but it ends up screwing everything up. Yeah. When he said this, I'm sitting there and I'm

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watching the film and I'm like, if you hadn't have mentioned that entire thought process

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about how the flickering light is hard to cut around, I wouldn't have even clicked.

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I would not have picked up on the flickering of the light behind Jodie Foster's head in

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one shot. I think this is why Finch is called a filmmaker's filmmaker, right? Got you. Because

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the people that really rate Finch are the other people that make films. Right. And they

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see what he's done and how hard that is to do. Yeah. Whereas an audience member, it's

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a little bit like we don't know what's behind the curtain. So we just sit and we watch and

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we go, oh yeah, fine. Exactly. We view what's presented to us. Yeah. A flickering light

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on in a shot is in camera. You can't change that after the fact. Yeah. Fincher in his

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next film, Zodiac, basically reacts to that flickering light in a big way. Quite a lot

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of the blood in Fincher movies is no longer practical blood. Right. Okay. Quite a lot

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of objects that are thrown by actors are no longer actually thrown by the actors. Okay.

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Because if he's going to get a hundred takes or something, he doesn't want the perfect

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take ruined by something that isn't really predictable or controllable inside the shot.

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Right. Okay. So like a practical blood splatter, he's like that actor nailed that performance.

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Yeah. But the blood got in their eye. Right. And now I can't read. Right. Right. Right.

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No, have that. There's a scene in Gongo where she's throwing gummy bears at him. Yes. And

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he's like, we're not doing that in camera. We're just going to CG the gummy bears in.

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Stop it. I can't wait to do Gongo. That's probably my favourite Fincher film of all

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time. Well, I think, I think Finch is a director who has in his head how it needs to look.

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Right. And the process of him making a film is him having to explain to everyone else

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who can't see that what he's going for. Right. Okay. And then trying to get it going. Okay.

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This is the tools. These are the tools I have. Yeah. This is the, this is the, I've got these

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actors, this equipment, this set. This is what I think the shot can be. Okay. And then

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just trying to get it. I mean, that's, and a flickering light in camera is just a random

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uncontrollable element, which is the antithesis of how Fincher makes films. He knows what

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he wants already. I guess he's already visualised how and when that light flickers. That's insane

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to me. Like that is insane. That's, that's the type of neurosis that's like so focused

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on every minute tiny detail. That's because the film already exists in his head. Doesn't

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make sense to me in my brain. It doesn't make sense to me in my brain at all. Like when

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we do these shows, we don't sit down and meticulously plan out every single line of dialogue. It's

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a literal, like it is right headline. And then we waffle, right. And ad lib and improv

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for how long? Right. An hour. No, no, no, no, no, no. That's mental. He pre writes,

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he pre writes every camera move, every little nuance so that it becomes, this is why he

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doesn't write scripts. Cause he would never finish it. He'd never get one finished. He'd

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never get one done. He would sit there debating whether or not the or an for weeks, but how

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many seconds does this, do they breathe between or an an I genuinely, when you said, you know,

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AI, I genuinely believe if there's one director who would wholeheartedly embrace the ability

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to have AI actors, it'd be Fincher and heartbeat. Of course, of course a programmable thing

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that's like meticulous down to like the, the nano second. Yeah. He, he, on this film, he

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started you, he started his sort of habit for using motion control cameras rather than

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camera operators, right? Cause he's like, I know if I hit go, it will do the same thing

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every time. I can't, I can't promise that from a camera operator. Right. Okay. Okay.

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It's a bit unfair. It's a bit unfair. He does, he does roll with punches like on seven where

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Brad Pitt breaks his arm. Yeah. And he's like, right, okay, I'm going to build that into

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the script. I'm going to make that part of the story. Okay. This one, he obviously expected

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Nicole Kidman. And I think that's a huge change in the tone of the film. Yeah. Cause with

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Nicole Kidman, she's much more of like a trophy wife, uh, grace Kelly Hitchcock style lead

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actress. Yeah. But like Jodie Foster spent a lot of time sort of carving out a little

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niche of the non damsel in distress character, right? Yeah. It's no longer, Oh my, there's

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just, there's intruders in the house. It's like, go my fucking house. Yeah. No, no, no.

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That wasn't me swearing. That was Jodie Foster. Oh, sorry. It's Meg Altman swearing. Got

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you. Got you. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I, I think it's a huge change to the tone of the movie.

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I love the fact that Jodie Foster can do the damsel in distress, but also simultaneously

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be carrying herself as a heroine at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. I always struggle with Jodie

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Foster. I've never once, I've never been like, Oh wow. Same. Jodie Foster. I've always known

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rationally that she's an incredible actress. Incredible. Incredible. Couldn't tell you

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a film that I really, really emotionally resonated with her in. I don't think there is one moment

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where I've ever fully connected with Jodie Foster or any of her characters ever. Right.

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I don't think that's a bad thing. I think that's, that's fine. I think it's because,

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I think for you it's because she's a lesbian and therefore you just can't relate. You're

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like, nah, it's nothing for me there. It's cause you're a misogynist. It's cause she's

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a strong, capable woman who, who you're not relevant to. And therefore you're just like,

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ah, there's nothing for me there. There's nothing for me there. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I

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appreciate that little summation of my entire character in one sentence. It is both hilarious

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and simultaneously devastating at the same time. But I think what it is, right. There's

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one character that I relate to more than others. And it's her in Elysium. Right. Okay. Where

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she sort of like controlling the immigration of the ring, the halo, right? Right. Okay.

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Is that cause your racism comes out and you're like, yeah, keep them out, keep them out,

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Jodie. It's because I don't like people. I'd literally be sort of like, make Elysium great

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again. Mega. I'd be like, I think the only reason that I related to it is cause I was

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like, if I was in that position, it would just be the people that I enjoyed being allowed

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on that. What you think that normal people are going to come onto my mate's ring and

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use a med bay. Absolutely not. I don't know people. People are terrifying. Off you go.

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I mean, I'm too straight for it to be mates. Yeah, that's fine. You go, you go one way.

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I'll go another. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But just feel like,

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I feel like if people are going to try and come on my ring, then that's nothing I'm interested

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in. That's a friendly, that's a friendly experience. If I've ever seen one, what, what says Christmas

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more than your mates just pop it over to your ring for a quick shower, some dinner for a

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quick med bay, a quick lie down on your med bay. I just, I feel like Nicole Kidman in this

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would have been a much better film. And I feel bad for saying that, but I feel like

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it sort of lands in the vertigo rear window space where it's a character arc of a woman

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who we initially feel isn't capable becoming capable. Yes. And it, and then I'm like, Oh,

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there's some movement there. Whereas the second I see Jodie Foster, I'm like, she's going

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to stab them in the neck with a bit of broken pipe. Same. As soon as Jodie Foster was in

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the panic room and those guys were in the house, I was like, she's not trapped in there

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with them. Right. That's just how it goes. And it ends up being that. And I'm like, it's

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just Jodie Foster being Jodie Foster. She's badass as anything. Don't get me wrong. She

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is like badass and she's always capable. Doesn't matter what character she's playing immediately

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capable. I never have any sort of shaken faith. There's never a question on whether she's

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going to be able to deal with whatever situation is thrown at her. And it kind of in a weird

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way ruins Jodie Foster movies for me because it takes any ambiguity away. It's literally

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just, Oh yeah, well she wins. End of. So, so Fincher was like keenly aware of this,

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right? So one of the early casting decisions was there is a subplot in the movie where

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she finally manages to get a phone working. She calls her husband because the police taken

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ages and the door was like, just call dad. He'll, he'll, you know, they know they've

378
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:14,760
got a limited time on the phone. Yeah. And so she calls him, his new wife picks up the

379
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:20,840
phone and then later in the movie, like you've forgotten about that call, but he turns up.

380
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:25,800
Yeah. Now the original casting choice for the husband was Mel Gibson. Yes. And this

381
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:33,720
is back before anti-Semitism issues and all that kind of stuff. And the reason Fincher

382
00:34:33,720 --> 00:34:39,200
wanted Gibson is cause he was like, it's a, it's a stereotypical Hollywood hard man.

383
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:44,400
Yeah. And I just, I would love the idea of Mel Gibson turning up on the film and immediately

384
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:49,280
just walking face first into a spade and then just being tied to a chair for the rest of

385
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:54,680
the film. Cause as an audience, we would see him and we would expect there to be a turnaround.

386
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:59,280
Yes. We'd be like, Mad Max is here now. Right. Mad Max is here now. It's all sorted. And

387
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:05,800
immediately bopping the face of the spade, you know, it just gets worse and worse. Right.

388
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:10,640
There's nothing of any like, you know, has no agency. Oh man, that would have been amazing.

389
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:15,000
And I think that's the original film. It's Nicole Kidman who were like, Oh wow. That's,

390
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:19,560
you know, Satine from Moulin Rouge locked in a room with her diabetic daughter. How

391
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:24,440
was she going to cope? Oh, Mel Gibson's here now. Oh no. Oh my God. I would pay so much

392
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,080
money to see that version of the film. So much money. It's unreal. But that's not the

393
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,400
one we got. We got, we got different, we got different characterization and I think the

394
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:37,880
film suffers for it. It does. Nicole Kidman is still in this film. Although she's one

395
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:45,000
of two cameos that I found in this film. Oh no. She's the voice of the new wife on the

396
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:53,080
phone. Well I'll scrap that from the game. Oh no. Should I not do the other one? No,

397
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:58,280
no. Okay. Yeah. Don't do the other one. But although I now know, you know, it's fine.

398
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:03,000
No, it's good. It's good. It's good. I wasn't, I wasn't ready for this level of prep mates.

399
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:07,880
It's good. It's good. I'm trying to impress. This is all I do every week. I'm literally

400
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:12,320
like, Hey, you teach me so much stuff about filmmaking makes me super happy. Cause then

401
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,880
when I go watch tremors, I'm like, yeah, but it's the mise en scene really complimenting

402
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:23,280
the film. I have never ever in my life sincerely used the phrase mise en scene and you know

403
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:30,280
that full well. I have never once gone. I've never mentioned the mise en scene. I think

404
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:36,680
of all the times on the podcast phrase mise en scene has come up. It's you using it to

405
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:45,080
take the piss out of you. I'm so sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry man. Yeah. Okay. I've talked a

406
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:50,040
little bit about why this film suffers for me and why I couldn't really like fully immerse

407
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:56,920
into it, but there are aspects of it that really hooked me in and got me, got me enticed.

408
00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:01,000
You know what I mean? Okay. So on my first watch through, I was like these characters

409
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:06,760
thin and I'm not really invested in any of them. I don't really care about any of them.

410
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:14,440
I don't care whether junior gets his inheritance, but a cause it's Jared Leto for a start. So

411
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:21,040
the less he gets the better. Um, and then the rest of the people I was like, eh, yeah,

412
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:29,920
Rowell's crazy. Burnham's the sort of wholesome empath that he plays in every movie. Um, and

413
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:35,440
then you've got Jodie Foster who's like just insane borderline Clark Kent without the glasses

414
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,920
on. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I feel like you're right about Forrest Whitaker.

415
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:43,280
It feels like Hollywood in the early 2000s pushed him into a really unfortunate type

416
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:48,680
of cast role where it's like, he is a black guy, but white audiences, he's got a wonky

417
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:54,520
eye. So he's sympathetic. It was like this kind of horrible, like, you know, that's just

418
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,960
a guy, right? And they're like, no, but he's a, let's, let's not forget. He's a black guy,

419
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:04,360
but white audiences don't be scared. We won't have him be a thug cause he's got a wonky

420
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:09,760
eye. And I'm like the amount of racism in the casting decisions that Forrest Whitaker

421
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,880
is given. I know we want you to be a thug with a heart of gold and people will know

422
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:18,880
you've got a heart of gold because of, you know, the eye thing. Yeah. And he's just stood

423
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:23,320
there looking at him being sort of like, you know, I'm like an actor, right? I'm not defined

424
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:30,620
by my eye. By my race and my eye. Yeah. Like, yeah, but you know, as a, as a white audience,

425
00:38:30,620 --> 00:38:34,720
we can, uh, we can feel safe around you. Cause if you ever threaten us, we'll just stand

426
00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:38,920
to one side and then we're invisible. There you go. That's it. We'll just move slightly

427
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:43,600
to the left and you, you will have to crane your neck so fast that hopefully injury we've

428
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:50,120
escaped. Yeah. But, um, I think it's down to species man. When he was in species, he

429
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:56,040
plays a powerful empath and it's like, yeah, that's your role now. Yeah. That was it. I

430
00:38:56,040 --> 00:39:01,320
think every, every film after that for about a decade, he plays like a really, it's either

431
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:06,240
really empathetic or really sympathetic character who just understands the situation from every

432
00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:10,680
point of view. And it's like, oh, he's, he's just a balancing board. Now this is what species

433
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:17,280
has done for him. A sci-fi film about a female alien trying to shag anyone and everything

434
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:22,400
just to reproduce. He was good in rogue one. He's great in rogue one. He's incredible.

435
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:28,080
Only time he's not playing a sympathetic empath, he's playing a nutter. Okay. I can get behind

436
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:34,740
this. The eye makes more sense now. Right. I love him in that, but the, uh, the characters

437
00:39:34,740 --> 00:39:37,840
the first time through very thin, very sort of like wishwashy. I was like, man, I'm not

438
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:42,080
really invested. And then I said to you yesterday, I was like, I need to give it another watch

439
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,720
because I need to get something from it. I'm quite negative at this point. I need to get

440
00:39:45,720 --> 00:39:49,680
something from it. Yeah. And I went, I did some studying mate, right. And I've come back

441
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:53,960
to the table with something positive. I think it's a big positive because it's, it's reinvested

442
00:39:53,960 --> 00:40:00,040
me into the film. So the way the characters are written, okay. The, a, the film that you've

443
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:06,920
just described is probably what the writer, uh, what the writer David Co-op or cop had

444
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:12,560
in mind. Right. But the film that we got, we've got junior who is like, uh, the main

445
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:18,920
criminal who's hired in these goons to steal. Yeah. He's an inheritee from the prior owner

446
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,920
who knows he's going to get shafted in the inheritance. He's going to steal the money

447
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,640
first. Yeah. So immediately we're all like, well, you know, the inheritance baby just

448
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,620
desperate to try and elbow his way to the front of the queue to get the money before

449
00:40:29,620 --> 00:40:35,080
anyone else's. And that is like, yeah, you know, screw that guy. And then you've got,

450
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:40,280
uh, Burnham who's like a blue collar working dad who's like, I, I, I'm going to get in.

451
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,120
I'm going to get the money. I'm going to get out. It's going to be good for my family.

452
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:46,840
We're going to be set up for life. It's just, I'm in a pinch. Yep. I get this done. No one

453
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:51,160
gets hurt. I'm out. I can forget about it with set up for life. I like that. I feel

454
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:57,320
like that's a relatable way to go about it. Then you've got Raul who is like, who is the

455
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:01,960
most unhinged person in any of, just did it for the love of the game. He just loves shooting

456
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:06,320
people. He just did it for the love of the game. He's like, he's got such a chip on his

457
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:12,600
shoulder. Raul is me. If I wasn't cautious, right? Chip on my shoulder. The class allegory,

458
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:17,720
the class allegory of this is they've got all the money and therefore all the safety.

459
00:41:17,720 --> 00:41:23,160
Yeah. Safety and money being a hundred percent the same thing in this film. They've got a

460
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:28,400
panic room because they've got money inside that panic room is all the wealth to make

461
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:33,660
sure that anyone there can be safe for the rest of time. And then there's the three guys

462
00:41:33,660 --> 00:41:41,400
outside one who is the fallen from grace wealth. He's squandered his money. One who's a sympathetic,

463
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:45,640
he's kind of our audience surrogate as poor people. We're not relating to Jodie Foster.

464
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:50,680
Just going, he needs safety for his family. Exactly. And then there's just Raul who's

465
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,760
just like, nah, he's the one with the chip on his shoulder. That's like, I'm going to

466
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:59,840
eat the rich. That's you. It's me. If I'm left unchecked, I know about the chip on my

467
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:05,400
shoulder. Uh huh. I know about it. I'm very conscious of it. Yeah. If I wasn't just snobbery

468
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:11,560
in the other direction, but yeah, it's kind of is that's bad. You were a rich guy. You'd

469
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:15,080
have a monocle and you'd be like, oh, the pause. I don't think I would. I think if I

470
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:18,920
was a rich guy, you totally would. You totally would because you're a poor guy going, oh,

471
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,720
the rich. No, I'm not going to look at the other group and go, ah, they're not people.

472
00:42:22,720 --> 00:42:26,600
I'm not going to the rich. I'm like, just, just appreciate your privilege. That's fine.

473
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:30,640
That's it. I'm appreciating my privilege. I'm very lucky in most situations. Do you

474
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,640
know what I mean? Okay. Okay. That's all it is. If I was rich, I would be poor in a week

475
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:38,840
because anyone would be so that you got changed. You'd be like, nah, I got a grand. There you

476
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:43,720
go. I'd be broken a week. Exactly. This is why when they talk about trickle down economics,

477
00:42:43,720 --> 00:42:49,800
I'm like, nah, give millions of pounds up benefits by a couple of million quid and watch the

478
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:54,160
economy sing. Yeah. It'll go crazy. Cause all of that money would be right back at the

479
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,680
top in about three weeks. That's all it is. Poor people look after poor people cause they

480
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:03,040
know how hard it's been. Right. And they buy stupid shit. And I know that cause I buy stupid

481
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,600
shit. Oh mate, thousands of that's five, by the way, she gave me a million quid. It would

482
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:11,080
all be, I know we've had a lot of crabs this week as well, mate. We've had some hideous

483
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:17,040
crabs as well. Crabs this week. I'm not, I'm not, I've never eaten a bird. Yeah. I saw

484
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:23,320
it. It's outrageous. It's outrageous. I never have an armored spider. It's an armored cannibal

485
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:28,040
spider that eats its own young by the fistful and like, oh, so cute. I'm going to get it.

486
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:32,520
It's a little plushie. No, you're not. No, that's outrageous. That's like having a Jeffrey

487
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:40,520
Dahmer plushie just chilling on your bed. Awful, awful. God's only mistake after Ben.

488
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:46,200
So with the, with David Coop's film in mind, I started looking at it and I was like, okay,

489
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:51,000
so maybe, maybe I've got this wrong way around. Maybe Jodie Foster isn't supposed to be the

490
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:55,840
good guy that she's portrayed to be in the film because let's look at the ex-husband

491
00:43:55,840 --> 00:44:01,120
real quick, right? He's an elderly gentleman. He's a very, very wealthy elderly gentleman.

492
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:09,120
Jodie Foster is playing a jilted ex-wife who has been left for a younger woman. Right? Yep.

493
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:13,160
Jodie Foster is not an old person in this at all. She's not an older woman at all. She's

494
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:19,680
what? Like 30s, 40s. Yeah. Spending millions on a house in New York. Yeah. Yeah. How relatable.

495
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:27,160
But then I started thinking, okay, so this gentleman, I'm not entirely sure that when

496
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:31,360
he made his money, Jodie Foster would have been the first one there. Right. Because when

497
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,680
she's asked about what she does for a living, she says, oh, I'm just going back to school.

498
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:39,920
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Retraining. Yeah. And the real, the real it is like, you should buy

499
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:46,480
this house. He can afford it. And I was sitting there and I'm like, okay, so she's buying

500
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:52,760
an outrageously expensive house, which is far too big for two people, far too big just

501
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:56,600
to spite an ex-husband who's left her for a younger woman. And I get that. But also

502
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,920
her child is going to grow up believing in ghosts just because of the size of the house

503
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:04,920
that she's buying. Yeah. A thousand percent. A thousand percent. I mean, she's going to

504
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,680
grow up needing therapy after the events of panic room. Let's not lie. Yes. You know what

505
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:12,400
I mean? Yeah. She's going to inherit her mom's claustrophobia. That's for sure. Yeah. And

506
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:19,160
then that, and then it got me thinking. So what's different between junior, the main

507
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,280
criminal who's trying to elbow his way to the front of an inheritance queue because

508
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:26,120
he feels like he's entitled to that money. And Jodie Foster, who's spending millions

509
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:30,040
of her ex-husband's money out of spite because she feels that she's entitled to it for being

510
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:37,560
left for a younger woman. And I'm like, Oh my God, it's the same coin on a slightly different,

511
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:41,120
the slightly different timeline. Those two are like match and match. I don't like Jared

512
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:47,040
Leto's character. I hate junior. I'm not a big fan of Jodie Foster's character, but that's

513
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:51,640
for different reasons. Right. Yeah. And then I started looking at like, okay, so where

514
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:56,300
does everyone else fall? Where does Kristen Stewart's character fall and who is she related

515
00:45:56,300 --> 00:46:02,880
to in terms of the, the criminals, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think, uh, Forest Whitaker,

516
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:06,640
Burnham and Kristen Stewart would be matched equally because they're, they're both on the

517
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:10,040
morality play on the morality play. Yeah. They're both sympathetic to the other side.

518
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:13,640
They understand the situation. They also don't want anyone to get hurt. Right. They're also

519
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:18,960
terrified. Both of them are terrified. And that's completely relatable. And I like those

520
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:23,760
two characters much more now because I can see it that way. Where does Raul fall on this

521
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:31,160
bud? The insane trigger happy. Yeah. I'm going to fill the room with propane cause nah. How

522
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:36,200
do we get the bonds out of the room if they're dead in there, mate? Nah, propane. Propane.

523
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:41,400
Propane mate. We'll get in propane. Where's that on the morality scale? And that is like

524
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:46,080
the low of the low that I'm going to burn everything to the ground. Like just hell for

525
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:50,440
leather. All of it up in flames. He's the Arthur Fleck of the situation. Exactly what

526
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:56,800
it is. And I'm looking at it from this point of view. It makes it such a better film. Right.

527
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:01,440
I'm now all of a sudden I'm way more invested in the characters. Cause I mean the writer

528
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:06,320
of the script, David, uh, David Coyle or David Cope, do you know what else he's written?

529
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,960
I haven't actually looked into that cause I, I like Fincher went, ah, the writing on this

530
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:15,240
one's not, not the rich seem to be mind that we normally find. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Fair.

531
00:47:15,240 --> 00:47:20,560
Fair. I'm like, this is a technical masterclass, not a writing masterclass. No, I'll agree.

532
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:25,200
I'll agree. I think the changes to the film negatively affected the script, but I've looked

533
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:29,840
into this guy and honestly we've covered a bunch of his films. Have we? Yeah. Jurassic

534
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:35,960
park. Hey, the lost world. Hey, you mentioned Spiderman earlier. He wrote the original draft

535
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:41,560
for Spiderman 2002. Hey, he also wrote death becomes a, which is a great film. Mint film.

536
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:48,240
Yeah. Great film. Um, war of the worlds in 2005. Terrible film, but super fun. Great

537
00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:52,760
film. Exactly what it needs to be. Exactly what it needs to be. Yes. Tom Cruise killing

538
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:58,760
a man with a spade in the basement. Yes. Incredible. And then it takes a bit of a weird turn for

539
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:04,200
a while where he writes Indiana Jones and the kingdom of the crystal school. Yeah. And

540
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:11,200
then angels and demons. Yeah. Let's be fair. There's no way he's the only writer on those

541
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:16,520
films. He's a team of 20. Oh yeah. There's a few, there's a few on them. And then he

542
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:26,040
sort of spins it all back around with the 2017's the mummy. There you go. I mean, I

543
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:33,000
hear what you're saying. I mean, essentially I think to sum up your, your take on it, it's,

544
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:38,220
it's about a rich divorcee with too much money who buys a house and then three upstanding

545
00:48:38,220 --> 00:48:42,360
working class folks walk in, she gets all shirty about it like a right bitch. Yeah.

546
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:46,640
That's the one. Yeah. Because she's a rich person. Money makes her not a person. Right.

547
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:50,240
So they're not after her stuff. They're after their own stuff. It's just in a panic room.

548
00:48:50,240 --> 00:48:54,840
And if escrow, if the escrow had gone through as it should have in two weeks, which is,

549
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:59,760
you know, as we all know, escrow only works on business days. Thank you. Jared. No idiot.

550
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:05,080
I just, just on the Jared letter point, I adore the fact that David Fincher clearly

551
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:09,340
hates Jared letter as much as we do. Because every single film he's like, no, you're doing

552
00:49:09,340 --> 00:49:13,760
your own stunts and we're going to set you on fire. Yeah. Also we're going to have you

553
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:18,960
hideously burned. Yeah. Also you get the absolute mints kicked out of you in this one, but so

554
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:26,600
enjoy this one. We're going to do 110 takes of this one. And then a new film. Yeah. You're

555
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:31,640
in it. Also you get shot in the face twice. 48 takes of that one, please buddy. Let's

556
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:37,680
let's go. One of our very valued listeners got in touch with a story. One of their friends

557
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:42,200
is working on a Jason Statham movie at the moment. Okay. And Jason Statham is also a

558
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:49,800
producer on the film and Jason Statham kept doing tape. Did, did about 30 takes of this

559
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:54,160
one shot because he really wanted to get it right. Okay. And the shot was him kicking

560
00:49:54,160 --> 00:50:01,560
another man in the balls. I do the same. 1000% do the same. I was like, you know, I'm going

561
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:08,200
to get your money's worth. Yeah, you have to. I, I hear that this film doesn't really

562
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:16,000
connect. You're 22, you're 22 years too late to the party. Yeah. But I do think it's an

563
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:22,520
important movie for Fincher because it's where he defines his look, but it's also another

564
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:27,920
repeated every time I read an interview with Fincher, he says the same thing about every

565
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:32,720
movie and it's like, how many times do we need to teach you this lesson? Old man. He's

566
00:50:32,720 --> 00:50:38,360
his own worst enemy when it comes to letting go. Yeah. So do you remember on a seven, we

567
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,680
were talking about Darius congee, the incredible cinematographer who makes everything look

568
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:50,480
brilliant. Yeah. Incredible. He was on this movie. Yeah. For two weeks. Oh no. Basically

569
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:56,600
he, he was supposed to sort of come in and help sculpt the, the underlit design of the,

570
00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:02,400
of the thing. Uh, fortnight in he, he got replaced by Conrad Hall jr. And Fincher says

571
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:07,720
it's his own fault. He says, um, Darius is not a light meter jockey. He wants to be part

572
00:51:07,720 --> 00:51:12,440
of the decision making process. This movie did not allow that. And it was incredibly

573
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:18,560
frustrating for him. Darius makes films, but panic room is a movie. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

574
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:22,920
There you go. He's come in, he's gone, all right, David, what we doing? And David's like,

575
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:27,800
we're not doing anything, mate. I've done it all. I've got two thirds of this film pre-visualized.

576
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:35,560
I know what lens I'm using, what angle, how I'm lighting it off your pop. Welcome to the

577
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:42,560
show. Yeah. Stand in front of it and do exactly what I tell you to do. And he says about this

578
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:48,280
movie, it was just over controlled. You know, he said, um, it completely removed the authorship

579
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:52,880
by the actors. You need that. You need someone to go. You're missing something here. Right.

580
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:57,320
I want people to feel like they can stop the train and say that. Right. Right. Right. This

581
00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:01,800
was not the film for that. Um, as an actor actually, um, you know, the guy who plays

582
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:09,120
the drill sergeant in full metal jacket. Yes. Ah, Ali Ermi. Right. So he was in seven and

583
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:14,240
he talks about David Fincher working with David Fincher on seven. He goes, this is him

584
00:52:14,240 --> 00:52:19,320
about David Fincher. He's afraid to take chances. He's afraid to let anybody change one word

585
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:24,560
in the script. He wants puppets. He doesn't want actors that are creative. If you're not

586
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:29,600
worth a shit at acting and you're not creative, then I would recommend you go work with David

587
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:36,280
Fincher. Wow. He won't let you act even if you're a fucking good actor. That's pretty

588
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:44,200
intense. Okay. Jesus. I think the micro he talks about this film, teaching him that he

589
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:49,680
needs to let go. He needs to stop micromanaging stuff, which is exactly the same thing he

590
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:58,240
said about fight club. Yeah. Which is exactly the same thing he said about seven. This is

591
00:52:58,240 --> 00:53:03,040
crazy though. It makes him so relatable because you know, when we do creative stuff and then

592
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:07,200
we send it back and forth like eight or nine times, yeah. It goes or anything we can tweak

593
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:10,600
it. And it's like, yeah, there's hundreds of things and then we tweak it and it makes

594
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:16,160
literally no difference to anyone but us. Yep. Look at socials videos. They take, they

595
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:19,240
take a good few hours. I was up until three o'clock in the morning the other day making

596
00:53:19,240 --> 00:53:23,600
one. Do you know, do you know how many people saw it? Couple hundred, couple hundred people.

597
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:26,840
Yeah. A hundred people. It took me about four hours to do that one just cause it was fun.

598
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:30,880
And every time, every time I watched it, I was like, yeah, but maybe if I switch it out

599
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:37,440
for this, do you want to know, do you know how much this made? Yeah. Hit me. So this

600
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:44,320
is David Fincher's highest grossing film since seven. Okay. It made twice what fight club

601
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:49,920
made. Jesus Christ. It made nearly twice what the game made. That's understandable. But

602
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:56,160
okay. Uh, and it two thirds of what seven made. Wow. It costs 2 million less than fight

603
00:53:56,160 --> 00:54:03,040
club. Okay. And made twice the profit. This made $196 million. Jesus Christ. This was

604
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:08,680
a massive hit. Jesus Christ. Massive hit. I wish I would have seen this in 2002 because

605
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:14,020
it would have blown my mind in 2002. I probably, I would have probably seen two home invasion

606
00:54:14,020 --> 00:54:19,400
movies and that would have been it. The look of this film, I cannot get over this film

607
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:24,960
looks a hundred times better than any Christopher Nolan movie shot for shot. Okay. Christopher

608
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:30,360
Nolan does incredible spectacle. Yeah. And if there's a dialogue scene, it'll just be,

609
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:35,080
you know, it will be a functional shot that just allows the actor to deliver the dialogue

610
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:39,680
right. And us to go, yeah, okay. I know what's happening in the plot. Fincher will go, how

611
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:48,360
can I make this one shot art? Yes. Okay. For everything. Yeah. And I, I do adore that.

612
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:57,080
It's just, it's a shame it's on such a, a slight film. Yeah. No, I agree. I'll agree

613
00:54:57,080 --> 00:55:01,960
with that. That's what you're going to, what you're going to rate it. Okay. So come into

614
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:07,760
the show 22 years later than I should have having been spoiled with decades of home invasion

615
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:16,280
movies, arguably done better because they are movies, not films. Yeah. Um, I, I'm going

616
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:20,360
to have to put it bang in the middle of the road because it took me two watches to get

617
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:23,400
anything from it. But when I did get something from it, it was fun. Right. So I'm going to

618
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:30,680
give it a five. Oh, that's fair. That is fair. This plays so much to my, you like, we've

619
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:34,920
got the cameras we use for social media and like getting the focus right. So that the

620
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:39,080
background's just blurry enough, not too blurry and then getting the lights just right so

621
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:45,320
that I don't look like my naturally salmon pink self, but also that like everything else,

622
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:51,720
everything else looks normal is a nightmare. And that's one shot that I've had years of

623
00:55:51,720 --> 00:55:58,120
practice at and I'm still like, the idea that Finch has done that 2000 times. Yeah. In the

624
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:02,680
space of a few months is how it's come out looking like this. I'm just like, that's outrageous

625
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:07,080
for plot. It's a four. Yeah. Entertainment wise, I'm going to give it a five film making

626
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:10,720
wise. I'll give it a 10 cause it's insane. But that's so, so I have to go with like a

627
00:56:10,720 --> 00:56:15,960
seven or an eight, right? Got you. Because like just the sheer artistry of like, I'm

628
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:23,960
going to make every frame a painting is incredible. I can open this film, skip to any frame and

629
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:28,840
go, that looks mint. Yeah. That looks mint. Yeah. That looks mint. There's a scene, there's

630
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:33,760
a wide shot of them and it's like, it's a wide shot of the room and there's the three

631
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:39,040
people all stood around the room and there's little details like Raoul stood in front of

632
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:44,840
a doorway, right? Which has got a very dim light on in the other room. So you can see

633
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:49,400
the silhouette of his head, even though he's wearing a black ski mask. And I'm like, that's

634
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:54,720
not an accident. No, that's not an accident. That is a very meticulous thing that's been

635
00:56:54,720 --> 00:56:59,800
planned out for weeks before even looking at an actual light. So I'm going to, I'm going

636
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:05,800
to go eight. Okay. As a, as a piece of filmmaking, it's an eight. As a story, it's a four. Sound.

637
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:09,760
That makes sense. I can agree with that. I can agree with that. Do you want to play a

638
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:13,720
game? I'd love to. Panic Room Trivia Quiz, getting all the bits of trivia that mopping

639
00:57:13,720 --> 00:57:18,320
up all the gravy from the plate that we've not managed to get through in there. Yes.

640
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:24,040
So I'll start you with an easy one. Nicole Kidman crashed out of this film. Yeah. But

641
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:30,600
do you know where else she appears in the film, Ben? I wonder, do you know, do you know

642
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:35,440
where else she has a cameo? Oh, she's the, she's the voice on the phone. She's the new

643
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:43,120
wife. Oh, wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. No, that was a good spot. I was, I was, I was as impressed

644
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:49,840
as I was infuriated that you already got that one. Okay. Next one. Okay. The sleepy neighbor

645
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:55,160
that they managed to rouse from, from his sleep across the room. You mean the Prince

646
00:57:55,160 --> 00:58:00,600
of Porno? The what? The Prince of Porno. Why is he the Prince of Porno? And the director's

647
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:09,080
commentary they call Andrew Kevin Walker's cameo, the Prince of Porno. Why? Could not

648
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:15,600
tell you. But yeah, you're right. That is screenwriter of Seven and script doctor on

649
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:22,040
Fight Club, Andrew Kevin Walker. It is. So there's the two I know that you know. Okay.

650
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:32,960
Who was originally cast as Raoul? Oh, I'm not sure. It was Maynard James Keenan, lead

651
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:39,520
singer of Tool in a Perfect Circle. Shut up. Yeah. Okay. He had to turn it down because

652
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:43,960
of touring commitments to Tool, but that would have been excellent. That would have been

653
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:47,960
incredible. That would have been so good. Yeah. That would have been amazing. I would

654
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:53,000
love to see him play an unhinged criminal. Right. Dwight Yoakam does, does the role perfectly.

655
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:57,920
Like there's absolutely nothing that Dwight Yoakam does that I dislike, but it would have

656
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:05,800
been a nice little get. Now, speaking of aspects of the film that got you enticed, Ben. Yes.

657
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:11,400
Kristen Stewart says she has plenty of fans from this film. Why? I don't want to. I don't

658
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:15,880
even want to know the answer. Bearing in mind, bearing in mind, she's a young teenager in

659
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:18,480
this. This is what I mean. I don't want to know the answer to it because I feel like

660
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:23,920
it's going to be wildly upsetting. It is. It is. I don't know. Kristen Stewart has said

661
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:31,600
that because of the closeup scene of her toes, she has gotten plenty of fans that say they

662
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:37,320
like her feet. That's disgusting. She's a literal child in this. I don't know how you

663
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:46,620
approach an actress in person and say, I really appreciated the closeup shots of your feet

664
00:59:46,620 --> 00:59:54,480
in that film you made when you were a child. Nope. Nope. But clearly there are people out

665
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:59,640
there who are happy doing that. That's the worst. That's one of the worst things that

666
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:06,360
I can think of. Can you imagine being a fully grown adult actor and then having some lech

667
01:00:06,360 --> 01:00:13,080
just creep up to you at a convention and being sort of like, I, I saw panic room and I've

668
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:15,760
been a fan ever since. You're like, Oh wow. Thank you so much. Yeah. That was one of my,

669
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:19,640
you know, it was my early roles. I was, it was quite young in that you've got, you've

670
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:25,160
got really nice feet. I'd be like, wow. Okay. So this man's a predator. Um, security, security,

671
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:29,480
anyone around can someone check this man's basement because he might have skin lamps.

672
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:34,080
Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No comment corner this week buddy, because

673
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:37,920
we've got a special episode next week. We do. We do. We're going to be taking a break

674
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:41,600
from covering movies and we're just going to have, we're going to have an open chat

675
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:47,240
about the future. We're going to do a little bit of a mental health check-in and then just

676
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:52,240
have a full focus on that. Hit the reset button for one week. Yeah. And just, um, we've got

677
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:55,640
some stuff we need to address and we think it'd be good. It's still going to be fun.

678
01:00:55,640 --> 01:01:00,280
It's still going to be, you know, uh, we might trigger warning for, you know, severe conflict,

679
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:05,160
but it's good. It needs to be done. And I think it will be healthy. We've also got a

680
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:10,320
big stack of comment corners. If you've written into us recently, it's not that we're ignoring

681
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:14,480
you is that we're saving it up for an episode, which will make sense once you've heard it.

682
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:22,160
Yes. I do have to say though, we are not only available here this week. Okay. What'd you

683
01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:30,240
mean? We are also available on the No More Late Fees podcast. Yes, we are. Yes, we are.

684
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:35,840
Absolute belter of a show over there. We had the pleasure and the privilege of joining

685
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:42,640
them on their show to discuss the grudge with Sarah Michelle Geller from 2005. Yeah. 2004.

686
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:47,320
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great show. Go head over to No More Late Fees and have a listen

687
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:51,000
to that one over there. A hundred percent do. Jackie and Danielle are incredible at what

688
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:56,600
they do. Their show is very different to ours, but I think it was, I think it worked harmoniously

689
01:01:56,600 --> 01:02:01,600
and I think we weren't too chaotic. I hope, I really hope we weren't too chaotic. We do

690
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:06,400
have priors for just turning up on someone else's show and being like, ha ha, hello.

691
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:12,320
We don't have to edit this week. Ah, here's a joke about Hugh Jackman. Do you know what

692
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:17,360
I mean? Yeah. We do that a lot. But it was fun. It was chaotic and it's not the best

693
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:26,640
grudge film, but it's the best podcast about the grudge 2004. So it is. Objectively. Guys,

694
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:30,760
that is unfortunately all the time we have this week. Thank you so much for hanging out

695
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:34,680
with us. It has been an absolute pleasure. It really does mean the world to us. We love

696
01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:38,640
you all from the bottom of our hearts. We really, really do. Ben is now going to thank

697
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:42,640
you for spending an hour of your week with us, especially at the start of the week by

698
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:48,240
wrapping up the thoughts, feelings and subtext of this movie into a little Monday motivational

699
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:53,520
pep talk for you to attack your week with. While I just do what society always tells

700
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:59,240
you to do and consume. I'm ill this week. I'm going to keep you short. All right. I

701
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:06,040
think the main takeaway that we can get from panic room is eat the rich. Burn them down.

702
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:10,960
They have our money in their safes and quite frankly, I want it. Junior ain't going to

703
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:15,520
get us in there because he is a literal idiot. But what will get us in there is a sledgehammer

704
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:21,120
and propane. So just as a quick, quick recap, panic rooms are rich divorcee with too much

705
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:25,360
money buys a house with 22 million in bare bonds hidden in a safe. She doesn't know about

706
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:29,640
in a panic room she doesn't want the three upstanding working class proper blokes walk

707
01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:56,640
through. She gets all shirty about it like a right bitch.