1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:15,680 Hello everyone and welcome to the Every Movie Ever podcast. My name is Ben Groves. 2 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:19,520 My name is Rob Macfarlane and welcome to the show, a movie podcast slash mental health 3 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:25,160 check-in for two broken brain best friends talking around their problems, but not about 4 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:30,400 their problems whilst laughing at movies. But given that this is a thinly veiled mental 5 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:35,520 health check-in, Ben, before I get to what we're doing, how are you doing buddy? Choking 6 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:36,520 to death? 7 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:41,560 I'm ill. I'm ill. I don't think I'm ill. 8 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:42,560 Okay. 9 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:43,560 I might be ill. 10 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:44,560 You just malnourished. 11 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,560 I'm just really tired. 12 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,400 You're just living on a diet of pure creatine. 13 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:56,680 I just created a protein yoghurt. I just need a cuddle. 14 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:00,720 Are you on the pomegranate and blueberry yoghurt from Lidl? 15 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:01,720 Yeah. 16 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:02,720 They're delicious. 17 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:04,720 No, they're Aldi though. They're Aldi. 18 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,120 Yeah. Incredible. How are you buddy? 19 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:12,800 Similarly, we get different migraines. You get a headache with visual disturbances and 20 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:17,840 this. I get like, I can't move and I vomit and lights cause me to cry. 21 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:24,960 You get the pussy ones. I get the really manly Sigma ones. You know what I mean? 22 00:01:24,960 --> 00:01:25,960 You get the fight club ones. 23 00:01:25,960 --> 00:01:29,840 I get the fight club ones. You get the Magnolia ones. That's where we're at. 24 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:35,080 I was in bed for two days and I couldn't turn up to work. Then I basically haven't been 25 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:39,760 able to do the pod. I haven't been able to do socials. I haven't been able to do my job. 26 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:45,840 The entire week is ruined because I missed two days. On the theme of being ruined, what 27 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:47,240 are we doing this weekend? 28 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:51,040 That's a horrible transition. Going to be challenging that one very, very shortly. Come 29 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:56,680 on, get up, get happy. We're doing Joker. Folly. 30 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:01,000 Yeah. And the error of the second. That's what that means. 31 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:09,240 No, it means fun of the two. Rob, be more cultured. The brand spanking new sequel to 32 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:14,480 Todd Phillips is 2019 billion dollar hit Joker. 33 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:19,760 Yes. And given that this is about a film that's new out, we are assuming that you are coming 34 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:21,560 to us having seen the film. 35 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:22,560 I'm not. 36 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:27,800 This is a post cinema or you've heard it's bad and you want to know why it's bad without 37 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,400 spending 20 quid plus at the cinema. 38 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,200 Yes. That's exactly what people are doing because I've seen the numbers, mate. No one's 39 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:34,200 seen it. 40 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:39,120 Right. Okay. So this is a spoiler written episode and we've got a lot to go through. 41 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:43,000 We're going to get into what is going on with Joker 2. Why all the hate? 42 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,720 Does this film punish fans of Joker 1? 43 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:48,960 Does this film punish everyone? 44 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:52,600 Sometimes. Is this film intentionally bad? 45 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:57,480 And most importantly, is this the true Joker's origin story? 46 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:02,400 Oh, that sounds like Ben's got a theory. 47 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,040 Ben has got a theory and I've not heard it yet and I'm terrified. 48 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:07,040 You should be. 49 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:14,520 So this was released in 2024 to a flock of hate. Is that the 80s band? Yes. With the 50 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:15,520 long haircuts. 51 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:19,560 And I ran from Follardew. 52 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:25,680 This was an absolute box office bomb. 53 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:26,680 It's dreadful, mate. 54 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:32,280 This is the worst rated superhero movie ever. You know, Madame Webb got a cinema score. 55 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:33,280 C plus. 56 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:34,280 C plus. 57 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:35,280 Yeah. 58 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:36,280 This got D. 59 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:40,080 D for dick in good time. Do you know what I mean? 60 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,600 They spent 200 mil on this film. 61 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,040 Yep. And then an extra hundred mil on marketing. 62 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:55,440 Mate, the expenditures of the cast, the film, the marketing to break even on this film, 63 00:03:55,440 --> 00:04:01,160 they have to, they have to make 450 million. That's to break even. They have to make that. 64 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:02,560 They're not going to, are they? 65 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,120 Do you want to know what it did make? 66 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:10,120 Well, it's been out a week. I reckon, I reckon at least I'm going to realistically for my 67 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:14,760 expectations. If I hadn't known, if I hadn't seen the film and if I hadn't seen the reaction, 68 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:19,560 I would have expected this to have already made somewhere in the region of 150 mil. 69 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:27,680 Okay. Well that, well, well that was a mad voice crack. Well, well that, uh, my fight 70 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:28,680 club Sigma boy. 71 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:33,760 Nailed it. Look at my, look at my fucking bicep, mate. 72 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:35,720 Oh, Swirjar. 73 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:42,760 Swirjar. Five swears. They get to send pictures of our phobias, be they owls or crabs to any 74 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:44,200 of our social media platforms. 75 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:45,200 Yeah. 76 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:46,200 We've got four left, mate. 77 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,080 Yeah, that's fine. That's fine. Well, stick around to the end of the episode. We're going 78 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:52,960 to be getting into the figures and how much it's made in its first week. We understand 79 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:58,200 that if you're listening to this in the future, however many years down the line, this next 80 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:02,080 part will be meaningless, but please still stick around to the end because you know, 81 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:07,360 why not? It's going to be, we got, we got a lot of fun. We got a lot of fun. Now, uh, 82 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:13,800 this is a huge deal at the moment. This was one of the most successful films of recent 83 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:19,080 years. This is one of the most watched films on letterbox.com as of recording with, with 84 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:24,280 millions and millions of users logging that their love for the original film. And we wanted 85 00:05:24,280 --> 00:05:30,320 to take a look at the sequel that no one wanted. Cause no one, no one went, Oh wow. I can't 86 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:35,280 wait to see where that story goes. Everyone went, that was plenty. Thank you. That was 87 00:05:35,280 --> 00:05:40,360 everything I wanted tied up in a bow. Lovely. What a lovely little standalone story. I'm 88 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:45,240 in a different camp to those people because I saw that and was like, yeah, but, but realistically 89 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,960 what would happen after. And you know what, mate? Fuck all. I'm going to get exactly 90 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:57,380 that's two, two Rob, two. I hate this sweater. Well, that's the film we got. We got a film. 91 00:05:57,380 --> 00:06:02,600 We got a film documenting exactly that. Uh, now I have to address the, the elephant in 92 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:09,160 the room, Ben. Yep. Come on. Joker twos a musical and a lot of our discord users and, 93 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:15,400 uh, regular listeners have been demanding that this episode also be a musical. They 94 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:22,720 have, I think it should be. I think we should do every point to, uh, in the form of a 1930s 95 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:28,960 rap. Uh, and I'm thinking maybe we turn it into some sort of rap. Is that like 1800s 96 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:36,760 techno? Yes. It's just washboards and symbols. Um, that's my favorite band. So what I'm thinking 97 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:40,720 that we do is, is we turn it into some sort of rap battle. We've done rap, mate. We completed 98 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:45,160 it. Big tick. Yeah. Yeah. But this is what I've done. No, what I've done. I've got, 99 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:49,400 I've got this covered cause we can't do the whole episode. It would be like the film, 100 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:54,240 incredibly grating and cut the pacing of the film down to a crawl. So if we just concentrate 101 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:58,680 into the breakdown, just the break down, nothing else, just the breakdown. Fine. All right. 102 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:03,800 I mean, I'll play the, I'll play the jingle and we'll, we'll see where we are after that. 103 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:05,320 Shall we? Yeah, let's go. Let's go. 104 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:14,880 All right. So this is what we're doing then. Yeah. Yep. All right. So, well, I mean, we 105 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:21,880 said in the episode we would and we pre-recorded it. So 106 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:31,480 that's like Arthur's stuck in the Arkham now. I'm so stuck now waiting for a trial. Tick 107 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:44,640 tock feeling low somehow. Buddy meets a girl named Lee and she's got a twisted past just 108 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:59,280 like me. That's life. In a courtroom, things get tough with a story that feels disjointed 109 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:13,600 and rough, but he won't let it, let it bring him down as chaos reigns in Gotham town. I've 110 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:22,520 been a patient, a prisoner, a killer, a clown, a pawn and a king. I've been up and down, 111 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:33,520 lost in this town, but I know one thing. Each time I find myself caught up in the chase, 112 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:44,560 I fight my way back and face what I've embraced. That's life. He thought he'd win, but critics 113 00:08:44,560 --> 00:08:56,200 reign with pacing flaws and a story that's plain, but he won't let it, let it bring him 114 00:08:56,200 --> 00:09:08,200 down. Cause the joker's life will echo round. I've been so patient to say this, to give 115 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:16,400 you the basics, but this film got me good through ups and downs with our favorite clown 116 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:27,880 and I understood. Each time he found himself punched right in the face, I saw my past self 117 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:36,920 put right in his place. That's Ben, not Rob. This film was all his darkest fears. It fucking 118 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:47,440 was buddy. In a film that left Rob unable to cheer, but we won't let it, let it bring 119 00:09:47,440 --> 00:10:15,320 us down. Cause we got musical, we got musical, for our breakdown. For our fucking breakdown. 120 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:21,520 Why did we do this? We might be smooth brained. Oh, that was, um, that was a lot. That was 121 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:25,400 fun. That was exactly what I needed to be. That's terrifying. That was terrifying. And 122 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,880 I can't believe we're putting that out. It's on the internet mate. It's out there forever. 123 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:33,040 If we ever get canceled, that will live on in for forever. You know what I mean? When 124 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:38,840 we're 90, when you, when you're on your death bed and you're like, Ben, was I a good boy? 125 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:43,480 I'll be like, yeah. And then I'm just going to play that on repeat. That's what I say 126 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:48,680 on my death bed. Was I a good boy? I don't know. I kind of look at me and you as like, 127 00:10:48,680 --> 00:10:56,800 you're my best pet dog. Second to Roxy and I'm your best pet dog ever. I thoroughly dislike 128 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:03,040 a firstly, that's some shocking Lola erasure. My dog Lola would be Lola's great. Lola's 129 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:08,240 incredible. But I'm just saying that if me and Lola were to fight, I wouldn't fight Lola. 130 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:12,320 She's too. Yeah, you're right. I'm second to Lola. Of course I am. Right. I've got a 131 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:17,680 question for you, Ben. Go on. Why all the hate for this film? I can tell you at length, 132 00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:23,600 but what do you think? Right. Okay. So people are up in arms right now. Right. Yeah. The 133 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:30,120 reviews are shocking. It is receiving a tsunami of hate. I cannot for the life of me understand 134 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,560 where it's all coming from because you know, no, I genuinely, right. I read all the, before 135 00:11:34,560 --> 00:11:39,120 seeing the film, I read all the reviews. I was like, Oh God, it's horrible. It's horrible. 136 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:43,960 I went into the cinema, my expectations on the floor. Yeah. Right. And I know for a fact 137 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:48,880 that I've seen this film more than most people who are fucking raving about it. Right. Right. 138 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:54,120 Yeah. Because I've seen the box office figures, Rob. No one's seen this. They'd look at this 139 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:59,560 twice. They'd look so much different if people were watching this film, it would look a lot 140 00:11:59,560 --> 00:12:04,180 different. I went in with my expectations on the floor and I came out pleasantly surprised 141 00:12:04,180 --> 00:12:08,480 because I was like, it never got as bad as I, as I was expecting it to based on what 142 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:12,560 I was reading. And that was a positive for me. I was like, Oh, okay. Pleasantly surprised. 143 00:12:12,560 --> 00:12:17,760 Well, let me just quickly read a review that I found on Google from a Joker fan who perhaps 144 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:22,960 came to the film a little bit more literally. Hit me. Hit me. This was a 0.5 out of a hundred 145 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:29,360 star rating movie, complete waste of time. The director doesn't even understand his own 146 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:35,640 movie. He neutered the Joker in his second movie because Todd Phillips is an elite. What? 147 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,920 He then goes on to talk about Joker one. It does well because everyone can relate to the 148 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:46,000 average guy. Finally not putting up with BS from the elite. Oh, right. Shut up. As for 149 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:51,320 the second film, it was bad. Every time Gaga opens her mouth, the movie goes downhill and 150 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:56,000 I like Gaga and her works, but she's literally the cue for when the movie starts to go downhill. 151 00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:02,420 Every other scene. Also, they made Joker look dumb as fuck and so weak, IE Joker randomly 152 00:13:02,420 --> 00:13:09,000 bangs Gaga for like five seconds and then comes weak and shameful to the character. Now here's 153 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:14,280 my favourite bit and I'll end it here. Oh my God. In a true Batman Joker setting film, 154 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:25,280 there's no random sex scenes. Second off, Joker is a stud. He doesn't need sex. This 155 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:30,800 is written by a person who has held two doors open today and not gotten one hand job and 156 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:38,640 he is furious about it. I love the idea that he was like that guy's a stud. Oh my God. 157 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:44,800 That's actually made my skin crawl. What are you talking about? Right. This is my main 158 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:50,520 point here, Rob. This is my main point. I think this is terrible because this is a brutal 159 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:56,720 punishment of Joker and to an extent his fandom are taking it personally. Right. Yeah. And 160 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:03,800 as we discussed in our Joker episode, famously misinterpreted by very, very many people. 161 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:10,800 Yeah, I agree. I agree. Thank you. I think fans of the Joker far and wide are left with 162 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:18,280 bitter tastes in their mouths. Right. Yeah. Folly a Jew has left some weird residue. So 163 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:23,440 weird French undertones to their favourite character and they don't like it. I mean, 164 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:29,640 even Rolling Stone called it a fuck you to the fans and it's like, I don't understand 165 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:36,640 where this is coming from because the fans of the fans of Joker that are up in arms about 166 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:43,640 it misinterpreted Joker. So now we're catering to mental people that are like, excuse me. 167 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:50,480 I went to a swimming bath and didn't get one hand job. I am a stud. Okay. All right. I 168 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:55,000 hope this gets on the brakes for a second there. Right. Because I think lots of people 169 00:14:55,000 --> 00:15:00,960 have said that this movie is punishing the fans by sure. Punishing the fans that had 170 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:06,680 mistaken Joker as an idol. Right. Okay. I've heard this too. I've got stuff. I've got no. 171 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:11,720 I've got no problem with it doing that. I think that's a very correct thing to do. Yeah. 172 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:16,200 But I think it's, it's, it's a little more nuanced than that. Okay. It's asking you to 173 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:22,040 remember that Joker isn't a superhero, right? This isn't Mark Hamill's Joker or Jack Nicholson's 174 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:27,080 Joker. No, this is Arthur Fleck. Who's a, he's not the Messiah. He's a very, very unwell 175 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:33,600 boy. He's a very unwell man. I think the first film and, and the sequel, both try and make 176 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,680 the point that you might love the idea of pain making you strong. And I think a lot 177 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:42,520 of people misinterpreted that first film as he goes through all that pain and it makes 178 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:46,760 him strong and he becomes a victimizer. He decides he's, and that's, that's a thing to 179 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:52,480 be celebrated. It is not. Well, this is the thing. It is not. It's nice to imagine a world 180 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,920 where pain makes you strong, but it doesn't. It may, what makes you strong is the work 181 00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:02,240 you do after the pain. Yes. Right. You're otherwise pain would be a good thing. Exactly. 182 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:07,040 Pain gives you nothing and hurting people teaches them nothing worthwhile. Exactly. 183 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:11,740 Arthur Fleck is not some genius. He's a man who's been hurt again and again and again. 184 00:16:11,740 --> 00:16:17,160 He's got no healthy support network. And then Harley and Gotham fall in love with a vengeful 185 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:24,120 victim who's doomed to die. Yes. Not a lonely man who has, who has a future. Exactly. Right. 186 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:29,360 But this is the thing. All of that is great. Yeah. All of that is great. It's just executed 187 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:35,640 terribly. And I think it'd be a shame to wrap up the negative fan reaction for the people 188 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:40,280 who misinterpreted the film and go, Oh, Joker's not a stud in this one. Obviously they're 189 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:46,280 mentals and Todd Phillips is correct to try and make a film that punishes those fans. 190 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:51,000 I would be well up for it. I think that that is what happened though. It's just the film. 191 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:56,960 It's a dog shit film, Ben. Three. Three. But this is the thing. It's awful. And it's not 192 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:02,440 because of anything that happens in the film. It's the execution. It's the pacing. Right. 193 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:08,100 It's everything about that is it's not a good film to do that with. And it's not because 194 00:17:08,100 --> 00:17:13,640 of the tone or the intent or this, that or the other. It's everything else. I hear you 195 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:17,440 wholeheartedly, right? I hear you. I understand you. I can see exactly where you're coming 196 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:23,200 from. I think to relate the fan boy reaction. Yeah. Sure. Critical reaction together. Sure. 197 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:28,240 Is a flaw. The fan boys are annoyed for stupid reasons. Different reasons. Fair enough. Yeah. 198 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:32,440 And they should be. And the critics are annoyed because of the filmmaking choices, which is 199 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,600 fine. And they're both fine. They're both correct. And if that's how you feel about 200 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,400 this film, you are correct. There is no wrong or right choices here. I'm going to have to 201 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:46,300 disagree personally though. Okay. I think this film went down a road that I didn't necessarily 202 00:17:46,300 --> 00:17:53,760 want to follow, but I had to. Right. Right. It's a gritty grueling. It's hard to watch 203 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:59,560 in places. So sometimes for the right reason, sometimes for the wrong. Right. I enjoyed 204 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:07,320 both of those reasons. It's a portrayal of an accidental idol, Arthur Fleck and how he 205 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:13,400 was thrown into fame that he didn't ask for and he didn't deserve. And it's, it's the 206 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:19,000 culmination of his crimes catching up to him. Right? Now we see in Joker two that the system 207 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:24,720 has failed him time and time again. Now the justice system is failing him. Yep. The correctional 208 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:29,920 services are failing him because Brendan Gleeson appears to be all sort of like cheeky boy, 209 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:36,360 like, Hey, he's evil as anything. And he is sinister as anything in this film. It's incredible. 210 00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:40,240 I love that Brendan Gleeson's performance in this is faultless. It always is Brendan 211 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:45,040 Gleeson. The man can do no professional wrong. He literally can do no professional wrong. 212 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:51,000 It's incredible. The thing that I love about this film more than anything is we're in, 213 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:56,240 we're inside Arthur's head. Arthur is fully in the driving seat in this one. Right. Yes. 214 00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:02,560 And I, I feel like with the musical aspect and stuff like this, what you've just said, 215 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:06,280 pain doesn't make you strong. It's what you do after that makes you strong. Right. I will 216 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:10,520 1000% agree with you because it's how you process it, how you learn from your mistakes 217 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:14,600 and how you, how you better yourself going forward. That's the most important thing here. 218 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:18,200 You and I both know people who something bad happens to them and they just sit there in 219 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:23,400 it and go, well, that's me done us 10 years ago, mate. Yeah, exactly. With crippling cocaine 220 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:28,400 habits. Why aren't you moving on with your life? Because our bad thing happened. Exactly. 221 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,720 And it's like, cool. Well, no one's coming to pick you up. What are you going to do about 222 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:35,680 it? Yeah. I can't. And it's fine to be there for a bit. Do you know what I mean? Everyone 223 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:40,600 is there at some point in the time and that's fine. But it's, it's, it's getting up and 224 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:45,000 dusting yourself off. Arthur Fleck does not do that. Yeah. Arthur Fleck lashes out. No, 225 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,200 he doesn't look, he doesn't look inward. He lashes out and he takes out on the world and 226 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:52,920 he must be everyone else. That's wrong. Everyone else is wrong. The finger is always pointed 227 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:59,600 outwards. It's never like held up to a mirror. Now the musical aspect of this film is when 228 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:04,120 we see Arthur is in a stressful situation, it's a very dramatic moment and the dramatic 229 00:20:04,120 --> 00:20:09,720 moment seems to be undermined by a musical number, right? And for the first once or twice 230 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,920 that this happened, I was like, Oh, it kind of, you know, it takes away the seriousness 231 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:18,240 that he sort of, you know, deviates away from the seriousness of the drama that's happening 232 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:23,760 around him. And there is one moment in this film where there is a very, there's a very 233 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:31,640 intense dramatic moment with no musical number coming in. And it is the moment when Arthur 234 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:38,840 cannot escape that moment right there. He has to be present. He has to be focal to that 235 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:43,880 point happening. And that hit me like a ton of bricks without the music. Because I'd gotten 236 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,520 so used to go in, you know, it's just going to deviate away from it. And then when it 237 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:53,160 didn't, I was like, Oh, right. Oh, right. Oh, okay. And in my mind, something clicked 238 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:58,680 and I was like, the musicals and the musical numbers is Arthur drifting into a little fantasy 239 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:03,280 world. Yes, it is. Yeah. To not be present in these horrible moments that he now has 240 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:09,880 to deal with because he's on trial for five murders with the guilt of a sixth on his mind. 241 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:19,360 And I'm like, Oh my God, I love this stuff. I found that the music in a musical usually 242 00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:24,200 performs the task of expressing. And I get that this was trying to be a subversion before 243 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,320 you button, right? No, no, that's fine. What Tom Phillips was trying to subvert was the 244 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:36,960 musical language where the song and the fantastical performance that you see is a depiction of 245 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:43,080 the emotional state of the character. Yes. Gorgeous. Except it doesn't happen in this 246 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:50,800 film because Arthur Fleck and Harley Quinn both sing in their characters untrained voices. 247 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:58,480 Yeah. So we've kept the reality of the situation in their flight of fantasy. Yes. Right. Yes. 248 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:04,840 We now have an unpleasant to listen to vocal. Yeah. Over a song that very rarely relates 249 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:10,040 to the narrative in a way that's emotionally connecting. Yes. I'd say the only time that 250 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:14,960 the song choice emotionally connects with what's happening is when Arthur sings the, 251 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:21,280 if you go away, uh, Jacques Brel's song to Harley down the phone. Yeah. Every other time 252 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:26,840 what happened is in a film that's already slow, a film in which the character already 253 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:34,440 has no agency whatsoever, makes no choices for himself, is purely reactive the entire 254 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:42,800 time. And in a film with arguably three locations. Yes. We're then stopping that absolute smorgasbord 255 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:49,800 of nothing happening to have even less happen. Okay. In a flight of fantasy where no one 256 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:55,720 sings with fantasy voices and no incredible staging happens. So you have this sort of 257 00:22:55,720 --> 00:23:03,800 funeral march of dull interrupted with dull. Yes. And I, I am aware that it's, okay. Oh, 258 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:10,760 it's gritty and it's aversive, but it's not, it's not engaging. It's okay. I, I, again, 259 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:15,440 I'll agree with you. You can be as, you can be as thematically right as you like. I agree. 260 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,960 But I'm not, I'm not gripped. It's that's fine. I was very gripped by this. I like the 261 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:24,120 fact that it's not great voices. I like the fact that they keep their reality voices because 262 00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:31,200 it's, it's almost like a commentary on Arthur on how he being able to imagine himself as 263 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:35,680 more capable as being anything more than what he already is. And that is the most heartbreaking 264 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,040 thing. And when you really sit and think about it, that didn't hit me at first. Do you want 265 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:45,200 to know when it did hit me? Right. In the credits, in the credits, I was in tears, right? 266 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,440 There is, I don't know if you stuck around for the credits, but there is a, it's like, 267 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:54,680 it rolls for a bit and then it goes dead silent and it's Joaquin Phoenix covering Daniel 268 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:59,360 Johnston's true love will find you in the end. Oh, okay. I didn't stick around. I wanted 269 00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:04,920 to go and leave as quickly as possible so I could watch my own urine flow down the toilet 270 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:09,640 cause it would be more engaging. That's fine. I stuck around for some credits. He did Daniel 271 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:15,000 Johnston, true love will find you in the end. And it was the most gorgeous moment in a cinema 272 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,640 ever. Me and my friend Amber were sitting there, we were chatting about the film and 273 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,000 I was like, was it as bad as you thought it was going to be? She was like, no, I've read 274 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:26,360 so many reviews that were like, this is the worst film in existence ever. It's not, it's 275 00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:32,520 not. I also left the cinema going that wasn't as bad as everyone says it is. I know, but 276 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:37,960 the thing with Daniel Johnston cover is it's not his bad singing voice. It's his gorgeous, 277 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:42,880 gorgeous singing voice. Cause he did walk the line with as Johnny Cash and he nailed 278 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,560 it. Yes. But this is one of the most cripplingly beautiful songs that exists. And for anyone 279 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:52,160 that knows me knows that my relationship with Daniel Johnston is that, toxic AF. I love 280 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:59,240 that man beyond belief, right? I listen to him daily. I full on obsessed that one song 281 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:04,600 when I saw him live, he played it. I was in bits for about a week and a half after I couldn't 282 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:10,160 fully function. And then to hear it at the end of this film, I was like, Oh my God, Oh 283 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:16,000 my God. And then it started hitting me bit by bit. Do you think, do you think Todd Phillips 284 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:21,280 legitimately made this to try and dissuade the wrong type of fan from liking his film? 285 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:25,360 I've got the answer and I know it's the answer because it's from Todd Phillips, right? This 286 00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:32,860 is from an interview that Todd Phillips did with IGN. IGN asked Todd Phillips, is this 287 00:25:32,860 --> 00:25:37,680 a response to toxic fandom? Bear with me. Cause this is, it's a little bit long, but 288 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:42,720 it's, it nails it on the head and it's essentially like a done, done point after this. Right? 289 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:47,280 Okay. Nice. Right. So Phillips said not so much that to be honest with you, but one of 290 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,840 the things that we always thought about the first movie or one of the things I definitely 291 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:55,840 said enough in defending the first movie when it needed to be defended because people said 292 00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:00,920 it was irresponsible in its use of violence. And I, I always saw it quite literally the 293 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:05,640 opposite. I thought it was responsible because it was showing the actual real world effects 294 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:11,080 of violence. It wasn't glamorizing gun use in my mind. It was actually showing, Oh my 295 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:17,400 God, this is brutal. And I think the reality of it maybe is what turned people off with 296 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:22,240 the people that were turned off. Right. One of the things we tried to continue with here 297 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:28,600 is that same idea is the same idea is to me, a really important scene in the movie is when 298 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:33,560 he's cross-examining the little guy, Gary, why? Because it's been showing you the real 299 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:37,760 world effects of a trauma on a person who witnessed it. Right. That is a great scene. 300 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:44,080 That's the best scene in the film. It is heartbreaking. Uh, even beyond just witnessing something 301 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:48,640 horrible, what does that do to you? Right. You know what I mean? It's two or three years 302 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:53,680 later in the movie and Gary still says he can't sleep and he's, and he still wasn't 303 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,840 able to go back to work. These effects of violence was something we really wanted to 304 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:04,200 kind of, at least that scene address some part of, but not so much toxic fandom, honestly, 305 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:09,920 but that is a good idea. And the interview goes on with Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix 306 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:14,200 and Joaquin Phoenix says, I don't like it when filmmakers set out with a point to make 307 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:18,360 when they guide your opinion of a film by saying, this is categorically what this film 308 00:27:18,360 --> 00:27:23,680 is saying. He loves it when you can gather information from a film and you interpret 309 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:29,200 it. Exactly what Joker one was. It was exactly, it was a smorgasbord of stuff that you could 310 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:33,240 draw what you wanted from. Yeah. And I think this one is a broader spectrum on a smaller 311 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:39,660 stage. Yeah. The smaller stage is the fallout from the first film. What happens to an infamous 312 00:27:39,660 --> 00:27:45,760 serial killer who is now an accidental icon for all of the disenfranchised people in a 313 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:50,120 city ravished with poverty. Yeah. And it's a courtroom drama at the end of the day. Yeah. 314 00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:54,520 It's a courtroom drama in a musical. It's not my film. It shouldn't be my film. No, 315 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:59,280 but weirdly it is. This is everything I hate about the kind of films that I'm often accused 316 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:06,920 of liking because it's just, it's dull. And I think one of the things, one of the big 317 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:13,640 problems I have with it is that Joker one exists in its own right. Yeah, it does. It 318 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:19,240 sets out its own story and it doesn't explain itself and it doesn't have a point to make 319 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:23,720 more than this is the story we're telling and it is controversial and you can look at 320 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:28,280 it in lots of different ways. You can sit there and go, Oh yeah, what a stud, what a, 321 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,720 he stood up against, you know, authority and now everything's better. You can look at him 322 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:36,360 as a victim. Yeah. This kind of stuff, but it exists in its own universe. It does. It 323 00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:43,720 does. This film is almost exclusively a conversation with the first film. It's almost exclusively 324 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:50,480 an overthought reaction to what the first film was and at no point goes, what is this 325 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:57,040 film saying about itself? Okay. We're going to have it be a musical, but we're, Oh, but, 326 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:01,400 but okay. But we do. We're going to controvert the musical. We're going to have it be about 327 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:05,400 the Joker, but actually we're going to have him go back on the thing that he said in the 328 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,200 last film. We're going to have him present it this way because of how he was presented 329 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:17,320 in the last film. It's an entirely reactionary work that's so overthought in so many ways. 330 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:23,240 It doesn't exist in it. So it has none of its own merits. It only works as a conversational 331 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:30,960 reply to the first film. Okay. And I, I do genuinely believe like Todd Phillips didn't 332 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:35,840 do any test screenings. He did not. He refused to meet with the studio. He did this completely 333 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:40,520 by himself because he's the great, he's the great genius who did the first one. Right? 334 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:45,720 I don't think that's the reasoning behind it, but I, yeah, it kind of, it smells a little 335 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,360 bit of that. You interpreted it way different to me, but yeah, I'll agree. That's fine. 336 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:54,480 I don't think the more I read of Todd Phillips in interview, I don't think he was intentionally 337 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:59,320 creating the work of genius that we saw with Joker 1. I think it was one of those things 338 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:05,920 where lots of things came together and it came out and it resonated. And I do sympathise 339 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:11,480 with that. It's almost like Joker was just thrown into infamy without really asking for 340 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:17,000 it or deserving it. Right. But then, but then when they say do a sequel, well, it's not 341 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:23,520 going to, nothing is going to happen to this character that is even slightly as interesting 342 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,280 as the first film. Oh yeah. Thousand percent, thousand percent. We're just going to have 343 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:35,920 it be him go, actually I'm not Joker and have it be what happens. You cannot play that down 344 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:43,280 to that degree that much. No, I can because what it does, because what it does is it robs 345 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:50,280 drama from the first film. Okay. Because rather than, rather than this being the moment that 346 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:58,000 a man decides that's it. I've gone too far. I'm in the wilds now. And do you know what? 347 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:03,760 That's life. I'm going to get my kicks stomping on a dream. Yeah. The second film, what are 348 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:09,120 you going to do that's as interesting, Todd? What if he went, Oh, actually, actually I'm 349 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:15,160 not. Okay. I have some of this because you've just underplayed the most important part aspect 350 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:21,760 of this film for me. The bit that sang to me the most in this film is when he's in court. 351 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:26,120 This film is ruined by the way. It's spoiled. It's everywhere. Spoiler warning is everywhere. 352 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:31,500 This is your biggest spoiler warning because from here on out, we have to talk about aspects 353 00:31:31,500 --> 00:31:36,000 that are in the film that we cannot avoid because you've just ruined my entire takeaway 354 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:41,120 and I shan't be disrespected this way. So before, before you do, before you do, I just 355 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:47,800 want to say, I feel like with the first film, Todd Phillips had an incredible map because 356 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:52,920 he wanted to make a Scorsese style character study and he had the best map in the world. 357 00:31:52,920 --> 00:32:01,360 He had King of Comedy with Robert De Niro, which just needed to be changed in pace, updated 358 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,560 and had a superhero mask put on it. And that's exactly what he delivered, but he did it with 359 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:10,280 a great twist and a great freshening up of the formula. Yeah. Yeah. No, I hate what you're 360 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:16,320 saying. And then he just went in with no map this time around. I disagree, but continue 361 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:20,040 and didn't have, didn't have a score. So there was no sequel to King of Comedy for him to 362 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:25,000 go. Oh, that's, that's, that's good for me to lift. He's a man that works well with limitations 363 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:29,280 for me. Okay. That's fine. I do. I used to work with artists all the time and they'd 364 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,920 be like, do that thing again. And you've got no idea how you did it. It was a million and 365 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:41,720 one things coming together magically. And I don't think he had any idea what, what a 366 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:47,920 Joker sequel needed to be. Okay. And still be engaging. I just don't cause it's not an 367 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,640 engaging film. That's fine. The scene that you have just destroyed in front of my very 368 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:59,600 face was my favorite part of this film by a long shot. It is a, it's a deluded mentally 369 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:05,320 ill man who is being manipulated into thinking that he has found love for the first time 370 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,240 in his life. He's found, he's found a true supporter, someone that gets him, someone 371 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:13,600 that understands him, someone that is there for him and someone that will be there until 372 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:19,280 the end. She's in love with him. She says that she's pregnant with his baby. Obviously 373 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:26,620 he's not a stud. He's not out plowing every weekend. This is a big thing for him. Once 374 00:33:26,620 --> 00:33:32,500 he's found this, the delusion doesn't seem as appealing because of what he has in real 375 00:33:32,500 --> 00:33:37,200 life is much more appeasing. He finally has an alternative. He's got something to live 376 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:43,120 for exactly to lose. He's got something to lose. And then when he's in this courtroom, 377 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:47,920 the prosecutor Harvey Dent, incredible actor, by the way, I don't know his name off the 378 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:54,240 top of my head in incredible part. Really? For me, the only interesting thing about that 379 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:59,520 character was the fact he was called Harvey Dent. No, he's a button down nerdy lawyer. 380 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:04,400 It's perfect. I think he played it perfect. Yeah. It's the standard smarmy DA that we've 381 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:09,600 seen in every film. Exactly. That's the sort of person that I want to see go two face. 382 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:13,680 That's the two face that I want to see go weird. You know what I mean? Cause he's got 383 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:19,840 that type of guy has got some stuff in his closet. I want to see it. He's every single 384 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:24,200 courtroom drama antagonist you've ever seen before. Yes. Nothing interesting. But not 385 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:29,300 know. This is the thing. What if those guys got blown up by a bomb, lost half their face 386 00:34:29,300 --> 00:34:34,840 and then went weird? That's what I want to see. But you love this bit of the film. So 387 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:39,000 I love this bit of the film, right? And it's him and he's cross-examining Gary. He's presented 388 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:43,680 with the, uh, the woman that he was stalking and, you know, very much upset. And in these, 389 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:48,840 these witnesses and these victims to his sort of his Joker antics from the first film and 390 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:53,960 the realization of all of the effect that he's had on these innocent people's lives, 391 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,200 Gary was one of the, one of his friends. He was supporting him. He was like, you know, 392 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:03,380 go get him, Gary, go get him, Gary. Um, he's sitting there in front of the jury and it 393 00:35:03,380 --> 00:35:07,600 slaps him square in the face. Right. That the people who are his fans and they're cheering 394 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:13,560 him on, they're not cheering on Arthur Fleck. They're cheering on the idea of delusion. 395 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,080 Screw all of you. We're going to burn it. Exactly. It's, it's, but it's him not, it's 396 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:21,280 Arthur Fleck not being Arthur Fleck. He's not being accepted for him. But whereas what 397 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:27,520 he feels with Lee Harley Quinn, he feels like he's being accepted for him. Yeah. And it 398 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:33,400 washes over him that all of a sudden Joker is a fantasy. These are my crimes. I need, 399 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:39,000 I need to face the facts of what, what has happened. There was six murders. I killed 400 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:44,600 my mother. This is where we're at. Right. And there is, yes, the musical numbers after 401 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:52,480 that are so painful that it's like, Oh my God, it's pure introspective moment. And coming 402 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:58,200 from a mentally unwell man, I've done some soul searching, right? Right. I've been holding 403 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:02,760 the mirror pretty close to my face the last couple of years and it's, it's not pretty. 404 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:07,240 But once there's not a straw between you and the mirror. Exactly. You know what I mean? 405 00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:11,960 Now it's not lightly covered in powder. It's like, I could really get a good look at it. 406 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:16,880 It's horrible. I hate doing it because it makes me feel sad. It makes me feel scared. 407 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:23,160 It makes me feel somewhat alone. I'm just fortunate enough that I have you. I have my 408 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:28,240 friends. I have my family and I've not done five murders. Do you know what I mean? Like 409 00:36:28,240 --> 00:36:34,280 I'm in a much luckier position and it just made me really, really appreciate everything 410 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:39,280 all in one go. And it was a gobsmacking moment. And I understand from a filmmaking point of 411 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:44,360 view, it's a very boring film. It's very boring. The pacing is horrible. It is because imagine 412 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:52,500 sitting down to James Cameron's aliens, right? And it's a courtroom drama with Ripley being 413 00:36:52,500 --> 00:36:59,200 on trial for the destruction of the Nostromo. Yeah. And the big narrative arc of the film 414 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:05,840 is her going, I actually, I don't think there was an alien. Right. Yeah. I agree. That would 415 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:10,400 be horrible. Instead of aliens, we've got that. But there's nothing there for me. But 416 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,440 when it's a mentally ill dude, who's like having a breakthrough and being sort of like, 417 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:21,280 oh my God, I'm like, right. Yeah, buddy. I keep reading this stuff. Coming back to the 418 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,920 musicals real quick. There's so many people complaining about it and they're like, Joker 419 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:29,280 doesn't sing and dance. It's like, watch. Yes, he does. Watch. Yes, he absolutely does. 420 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:34,760 All the time. Shut up. He's a clown. Have you ever seen a Batman animated series? Watch 421 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:40,680 the animated stuff. He sings and dances all the time. What's wrong with you? What are 422 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:46,060 you talking about? Look, I think, I think it's, I've got no problem with the direction 423 00:37:46,060 --> 00:37:52,880 of the movie. I've just got a problem with the, there is nothing in there that is as 424 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:58,640 interesting, interesting enough to warrant a film. That's fine. About this character. 425 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:05,120 It's like, okay. Like you said, wow. What happens to that character after Joker one? 426 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:10,640 Yeah. And the answer is, well, he sort of mootches about in prison for a bit, has horrible 427 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:18,080 stuff done to him, gets led on, has a pretty dull court case and then dies. I love how 428 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:23,960 you sum this up. We'd sum this up so different. I'd be like struggles to understand any relationship 429 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:29,920 that people are presented to him because it's all false. All of it is false. Of course. 430 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:35,200 I get, that's terrifying to me. I think it's my trust issues. It's my past traumas coming 431 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:40,280 through watching a guy who can't deal with that stuff suddenly go great. I need to. And 432 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:44,520 that was it. That was it for me. That's the takeaway. That's me done. Filmmaking horrible, 433 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:49,600 pacing horrible. It's right, but it's a fun thought experiment after you watch a film 434 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:56,120 and you go, yeah, but I mean, okay. So take like Heath Ledger's Joker when he blows out 435 00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:01,600 the bank with a, with a school bus and then just drives away. I like to sit and think 436 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:07,160 sometimes and go, but what happened to the bank tellers when they were like, now we've 437 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:08,920 got to fix a hole in the wall. 438 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,600 No, no. The thing that always, the thing that I always, I always get this with, right. Cause 439 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:16,680 I'm watching a lot of fancy stuff at the moment. Rings of power has been on. Yeah. And it's 440 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:21,800 expensive. It's expensive fan fiction. And I'm like, oh, it's pretty. It's brain rot, 441 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,680 but it's pretty brain rot. There's, there's lots of scenes where like leaders raise their 442 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:30,120 swords in the air and everyone has a big shout. They're like, yeah. And then it cuts. And 443 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:36,160 I'm like, how long did they do that for? And then when you stop, what do you do next? You 444 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:40,560 just go a lot. I've lost my favourite bits. Brewery and those. He raises his sword as 445 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:44,320 a shout. Mate, you did a great shout. That one, that was what? That was way longer than 446 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:49,240 last week. And then what do you do? Like you just go back to mooching about. Well, I've 447 00:39:49,240 --> 00:39:55,560 got the safe way before it shuts. That's gotta be the most awkward experience in the world. 448 00:39:55,560 --> 00:40:00,200 When you're in a big group of people and you all do a big team cheer and then like, Rob, 449 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:06,240 I would see that film in the cinema twice. I would see the immediate, if a film started 450 00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:13,480 with the tail end of a leader, sword in the air and everyone just immediately going, yeah. 451 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:20,120 So do we go now or is this like a hype up thing? Like, is this the meeting? Is this 452 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:24,200 the preamble? Right. Cause I've, I've, I've got food on. I need to take, I need to do 453 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,560 something before we leave. I didn't realize we were leaving right now. It's the sort of 454 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,520 thing that makes sense before a battle scene. But if you do it any other time, they always 455 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:35,520 do it when they're like, oh, we're all a bit downtrodden. Cause we know we're, we're retreating 456 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,680 and then they do the sword moment and everyone's better. And I'm like, but you've still, you've 457 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:44,160 still got laundry to do post shouty bit. Yeah. Have you told everyone that you're leaving 458 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:48,160 immediately? Hey, what's your family thinking? This film is that. And you're right. It is 459 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:53,360 a lovely thought experiment. Yes. That's all it is. It's not a $450 million movie. No, 460 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:58,840 it is not. I can't even defend it that much, man. I went in and I had a fun time because 461 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:04,440 I was expecting absolute, absolute blended horse juice. Right. This, this would have 462 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:08,760 been a brilliant graphic novel. Oh, so good. Yeah. I agree. It would have been a brilliant 463 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,960 graphic novel. Yeah. And I knew that we were in trouble the moment the film started because 464 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:17,560 it starts an animated sequence and I was like, oh wow, this is going to be brilliant. And 465 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:21,000 I'd heard that it was the same guys that did the triplets of Belleville, which is also 466 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:26,720 called Belleville Rendezvous, that weird French animation about the cyclists. It started up 467 00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:33,040 and immediately within the first 30 seconds, it was doing like a retro animation, but it 468 00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:39,360 couldn't decide what decade retro it was doing. Yeah. But I like that though. Oh, it really 469 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:44,480 jarred. It really, really jarred. It was a little bit like, okay, are we doing Hanna 470 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:50,480 Barbera? Are we doing old school Disney? Are we doing, we're just doing a mashup of just 471 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:56,520 animation stuff. Oh my dear sweet baby angel boy. Oh, my pretty little pristine unicorn 472 00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:00,800 egg. Listen, listen, just lean in one sec. Just lean in one sec. Bring your face, bring 473 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,720 your face close to the top of the face. It's Arthur's imagination, but that's not interesting 474 00:42:04,720 --> 00:42:09,680 Ben. No, because that's not it Rob. That's a fuck you to James Gunn. That's four. Three. 475 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:14,560 That's three. That's three. I edited one, so that's three. All right. Three. There's 476 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:19,000 three. It's a, it's a, you know, it's a middle finger to James Gunn because James Gunn and 477 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:24,480 obviously the head of DCU left some notes for this film and Todd Phillips was like, 478 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:30,280 it's not a DC movie. It's a Warner Brothers movie. And then opened the film with the classic 479 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:35,920 Warner Brothers esque animation as if to be sort of like, and also there's no DC title 480 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:40,520 card until the credits. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. 481 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:45,880 That's the only reason that that exists. Speaking of Warner Brothers and James Gunn, uh, I think 482 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:50,800 Warner Brothers things, it's quite relevant. We need to talk about the ending, right? It's 483 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,400 gotta be done. I've got a thing on it. Well, I've got a thing on it as well. And it's a 484 00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:59,900 thing that makes me dislike Todd Phillips more. Okay. When they were making Joker one, 485 00:42:59,900 --> 00:43:05,560 they were going to have Arthur Fleck on the scene where he paints the smile on the face, 486 00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:11,320 on his face with his broken nose. Yeah. Yeah. Which I think is a brilliant scene. Yeah. 487 00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:15,580 They weren't going to do that. That was a compromise. Okay. What they were actually 488 00:43:15,580 --> 00:43:21,640 going to do was have him cut a smile into his face. Yes. But at the time Christopher 489 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:26,360 Nolan was still at Warner Brothers. He was. Warner Brothers hadn't lost Nolan. Yeah. And 490 00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:33,200 so Nolan said, absolutely not director of the hangover. Are you taking my character's 491 00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:38,880 Chelsea smile? Yeah. Like that's my Joker. Do something of your own. And it was only 492 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,400 when he was told he couldn't do that, that Todd Phillips came up with something that 493 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:47,280 I think is arguably better for Arthur Fleck. You know, Arthur Fleck has been punched in 494 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:53,000 the face and he's turned that wound into a strength by painting a smile onto his face 495 00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:58,640 with the blood from his broken nose. But to hear that that wasn't the first idea, it was 496 00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:05,760 only what Todd Phillips did when Chris Nolan said no. And now that Chris Nolan said to 497 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:10,160 Warner Brothers that they can go stuff themselves and daddy Nolan's not in the Warner Brothers 498 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:14,840 house anymore. Yeah. Does Todd Phillips go, well, I'm doing it anyway. I'm doing it anyway. 499 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:18,480 Oh, you can't tell me what to do, Chris Nolan, cause you're not Warner Brothers anymore. 500 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:24,720 And does it with this new guy. And I'm like, yeah, so childish and petty and not creative. 501 00:44:24,720 --> 00:44:31,520 No, I love it. That's the best. It's the best. Fuck your neck, chief. All right. Four, four. 502 00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:39,040 It was worth it. I just, I, it feels petty. It feels petty. It feels like the things that 503 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:44,000 I enjoyed about the first one, it turns out weren't great ideas and Todd Phillips, they 504 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:49,400 were compromises made because daddy Nolan said no. And now that daddy Nolan's not there 505 00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:54,600 anymore, he's like, Oh God, you're just upset that someone's punched Nolan from a distance. 506 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:59,960 No, I, I look, the man he's taken down a peg. I get it. He's just a brilliant director who 507 00:44:59,960 --> 00:45:05,440 always delivers engaging. He always delivers an engaging film. Right. Okay. I've got a 508 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,640 different takeaway for the end in there, but that is fantastic though. It makes me like 509 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:16,800 Todd Phillips a lot more. We're going to spoil it. Another big spoiler one, the death of 510 00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:25,480 Arthur Fleck. Yes. Is this the birth of the, of the joker, Todd Phillips from even before 511 00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:31,900 the first film was released has maintained that this isn't, isn't Joker Prince of crime 512 00:45:31,900 --> 00:45:36,860 from the comic books or previous movies. It is not that Joker. Right. He reiterated this 513 00:45:36,860 --> 00:45:45,720 recently by saying Joker is not the Joker and this isn't the origin story. No, it's, 514 00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:49,960 it's just an origin story. Right. Like we said in episode one where I was like it, the 515 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:54,080 film is called Joker. It's not called the joke. Exactly. So he's, he's then gone on 516 00:45:54,080 --> 00:46:00,080 to quote saying that like, it's this idea that maybe this is the inspiration for the 517 00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:09,520 real Joker. Yes. Now Arthur dies at the end of this film and it's possibly my favourite 518 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:18,120 self-help book that exists. Right. Arthur dies in peace, pure peace. No, he doesn't. 519 00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:23,600 He's been stabbed with a shiv in the stomach four or five times. Yeah. But he dies in peace. 520 00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:30,400 And let me tell you for why, right? Right. Arthur Fleck is being Arthur Fleck. And what 521 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:35,120 he's doing in that moment is when some young lad comes up to him and he's like, Hey, do 522 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,440 you want to hear a joke? He's not huffing and puffing. He's not like, Oh, I've got a 523 00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:45,560 visit or I have to go. He's like, he shows a young nervous comedian, the compassion that 524 00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:52,560 he was never shown. He lets him, he lets him crack a joke. He listens intently and he plays 525 00:46:52,560 --> 00:47:03,320 into the bit. Right? Right. Now, if that isn't true personal growth, I don't know what is. 526 00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:09,000 I have no clue what is. It's a very, very good point. He's been beaten up for years, 527 00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:14,480 trodden on for years and he still gives a young kid who's nervous about telling a joke 528 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:19,520 a chance because he was never given that. Oh, beautiful. Not only will I agree with 529 00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:23,800 that, I will, cause I've been very heavy on what I didn't like about this film. I like 530 00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:30,340 you left the cinema knowing it was awfully put together, but really enjoying certain 531 00:47:30,340 --> 00:47:37,280 aspects of what we did get. Yeah. And what you just mentioned there runs completely parallel 532 00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:42,160 and can totally compliments what else I loved about this film. Okay. I don't think it's 533 00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:46,520 interesting. I don't think Arthur Fleck is interesting. He's not. He's a very average 534 00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:51,560 man. I don't think he's as interesting as Joker. Right. And that's what I feel like 535 00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:56,720 we came to see was what's Joker going to do because it's a film about Arthur Fleck becoming 536 00:47:56,720 --> 00:48:01,280 Joker in Joker one. Joker two is going to be what's Joker doing. And then it turns out 537 00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,560 that actually Joker is just going to decide he's Arthur Fleck again. You're such a Harley 538 00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:10,840 Quinn right now. I just need you to know that. And that's fundamentally uninteresting to 539 00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:18,400 me. However, what I love about the ending of this film is it's not asking you to be 540 00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:25,920 a Joker fan and enjoy the film. It's asking you, how much do you care about Arthur Fleck? 541 00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:31,440 Because it's all well and good. Us watching Joker one and going, no one cared and no one 542 00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:38,320 this and no one that. Do we care? No. Look at the box of his figures, Rob. No one cares. 543 00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:46,760 No one cares. So in a way, in a perverse way, the flop of this film has done one thing. 544 00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:54,480 It's his biggest success artistically improving. And I don't care that this is five, that society 545 00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:59,920 doesn't give a fuck about the Arthur Flecks of this world. Because when you got a sequel 546 00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:07,000 all about Arthur Fleck, no one turned up and the people that did, hated it. Exactly. Dude, 547 00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:12,280 this is why I like this film because it turns everything on its head and goes, yeah, it's 548 00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:16,520 a flop. Also not doing that again. Do you want to know why? Because what do you want 549 00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:23,800 from me? Right. But it falls into the category of a film that makes, I could say I've got, 550 00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:31,800 I've made this film that makes a point about how far we're willing to go to escape ourselves 551 00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:37,480 and the awful mind numbing stuff that we're willing to put ourselves through in the hope 552 00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:42,280 of a little bit of escape. And what that film actually is, is two hours of watching paint 553 00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:46,520 dry. Now my point would be correct. People would come and watch it and they'd get to 554 00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:51,280 two hours and go, you see, you sat there for two hours and watched paint dry rather than 555 00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:55,880 live your life. Aren't I clever? Yes, I would be, but the film would still be objectively 556 00:49:55,880 --> 00:50:00,560 bad. And I feel that's what this film is. I get that. Also, I feel like the film that 557 00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:10,720 you just described could also be the synopsis for a circumcision documentary. It's just 558 00:50:10,720 --> 00:50:16,920 everyone's in this, everyone in this world is after a little bit of freedom. I agree 559 00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:20,440 with you about the ending. I think it's good. And I agree with you about the film. It's 560 00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:26,040 an interesting, it's not, it's a, it's a worthwhile Arthur Fleck investigation. Exactly. It's 561 00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:31,520 a fun thought experiment. It's, I think it's a great wrap up to a great character study. 562 00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:37,640 It's a, it's a good follow on of what happens after a delusional mentally ill man murders 563 00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:45,840 six people, finally owns up to his shit. That's six. I don't care. To be honest, mate, it's, 564 00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:50,280 it's a multiple, multiple factors less than we used to do. We were on six by the second 565 00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:55,920 minute and most of the intro was just me swearing. It was great. There's no more Blake. It's 566 00:50:55,920 --> 00:51:00,240 no blame in the world because the world isn't to blame. Right. The world didn't see Arthur 567 00:51:00,240 --> 00:51:04,520 Fleck because Arthur Fleck didn't exist. He was wearing a mask to hide the unhealed 568 00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:08,080 trauma, right? Yeah. He was hiding himself from the world and then going, why does no 569 00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:13,300 one see me? Exactly. And then he had no idea who he was. The world didn't start noticing 570 00:51:13,300 --> 00:51:19,760 Arthur Fleck. They noticed Joker. Yeah. And after realizing this, Arthur Fleck admits 571 00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:24,280 that Joker is a fantasy. That is his mask that he's been presented to the world. That's 572 00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:28,720 what he's being recognized for now. It's a fantasy and he has to accept responsibility 573 00:51:28,720 --> 00:51:33,000 for his actions. Yes. He was failed by the systems in place after social workers funding 574 00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:39,240 was cut. But again, the systems were treating Joker, not Arthur. Right. And that to me is 575 00:51:39,240 --> 00:51:45,960 mind bogglingly intense. It's a, it's a long four hour character study. If you watch Joker 576 00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:53,040 one and two and it's a bit, it's a bit fucking weird. Look, it's a, it's a good idea for 577 00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:59,800 a film. I think so too. If the film that you've just described had been made engaging, sure. 578 00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:04,760 I would have adored this film. I get that. It's not what, it's not what this film is 579 00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:10,440 trying to do. It's how it's trying to do it. It's not well paced. It's not focused. It's 580 00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:17,440 not audience facing. It's not, it's not engaging. It's not good. But listen, if you're truly 581 00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:21,320 working on yourself and you're looking at all the horrible stuff and you're dealing 582 00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:27,800 with your traumas, it's not good. It's not engaging. It's not fun. It's right. And that's 583 00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:31,880 very, very clever. Well done. Todd Phillips, clap, clap, clap, clap. I'm not going to watch 584 00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:35,760 your film again. Because this is the thing when you're in the throes of it and you're 585 00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:41,920 watching it play out on a screen, you're like, Oh, maybe me doing all of this horribly mundane, 586 00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:47,480 boring, nonsensical, mind numbing uninteresting stuff just so I can get out of bed in the 587 00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:54,160 morning is, is worthwhile after all, because someone out there deems it worthy of putting 588 00:52:54,160 --> 00:53:03,440 $200 million into putting it in front of my eyeballs in my tiny town cinema. That's mind 589 00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:04,440 blowing to me. 590 00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:10,880 But if you want a film, if you want a film with flights of fantasy, talking about the 591 00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:16,080 rehabilitation of an unwell man, watch Bronson with Tom Hardy. 592 00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:23,920 Bronson's good. See, it's the exact same thing, but far better. Yeah, it's fine. It's fine. 593 00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:30,720 This is Bronson with songs. It's bronze song. Bronze song. But we'll make this point in 594 00:53:30,720 --> 00:53:37,680 its defense. Everyone talks, we talk about how the box office has become stale, how it's 595 00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:43,840 become a bunch of B minus movies again and again and again, cookie cutter formula. If 596 00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:53,360 you want bold, original cinema, this is what half of it has to look like. Yes. Yes. Yes, 597 00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:59,640 buddy. You can't want a greater than 50% chance of enjoying a movie. Yeah, exactly. And expect 598 00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:03,960 something totally unique and new every time. If you want cinema to flourish and you want 599 00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:09,240 it to be doing new and unique things, 50% of the time of the cinema, it's going to look 600 00:54:09,240 --> 00:54:13,640 like Joker 2. Exactly. You want speed all the time. What you just 601 00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:19,560 want endless speed. Well, guess what, buddy? 50% of it is going to be speed too. All right. 602 00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:26,040 Exactly. It has to exist to make speed a better film. Listen, I feel like we've just nailed 603 00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:31,200 Joker 2. I think we have. I had a great time with it. You didn't enjoy it as much as, well, 604 00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:34,720 I didn't think you'd enjoy it this much to be honest. I'm surprised we got this far. 605 00:54:34,720 --> 00:54:40,720 It's bollocks, but it's interesting bollocks once. Yeah, exactly. It's a far more interesting 606 00:54:40,720 --> 00:54:47,160 film to talk about than it is to watch. Yeah, agreed. Agreed. What are you rating it? 607 00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:52,280 This is a four. Okay. That's way more. It's a beautiful looking 608 00:54:52,280 --> 00:55:01,560 film. It's got some merit in the idea. It's got none in the execution. Okay. There are 609 00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:06,480 some scenes like the scene with Gary that I think are really effective. Oh, heartbreaking. 610 00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:12,760 There are other scenes where for no reason other than shock value, the prison guards 611 00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:16,960 sexually assault Arthur Fleck. I don't think it's shock value, but that's fine. I think 612 00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:23,360 it's literally just so Todd Phillips can say that prison guards are fucking clowns. That's 613 00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:27,440 absolutely outrageous that you've just done that. That's a mint joke. That's fantastic. 614 00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:33,360 I legitimately didn't even see it coming. Took a moment for it to drop. Well done, sir. 615 00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:41,120 I also think that that's eight. You know what I mean? Fuck it. Make it nine. 616 00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:45,520 Speaking of numbers, what are you rating it? I'm going to give this, you're not going to 617 00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:49,800 be happy about this. I thoroughly enjoyed this film. I thought it was punishing to watch. 618 00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:53,800 I thought it was mundane, but I think it was important. I think it was an important exercise 619 00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:57,760 and it was a very reaffirming moment for me to see someone struggling with their mental 620 00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:04,160 health, but it'd be important enough to be a focal point. I truly, truly enjoyed it. 621 00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:09,360 I'm going to give it a seven. Wow. This is like the rule 34 of cinema for you, huh? Dude, 622 00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:14,440 you're like the fourth person that said this to me. Someone out there is going to enjoy 623 00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:19,280 it. Yeah, that's it, man. I genuinely had a good time with it. I know no one else is 624 00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:23,480 enjoying it and that's fine. Genuinely, mate. Genuinely, mate. I would drop Todd 625 00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,740 Phillips a message so he knows that it wasn't a complete waste of time because you might 626 00:56:26,740 --> 00:56:32,720 be the only one. Nah, he listens to the show. It's fine. Do you want to know how much this 627 00:56:32,720 --> 00:56:41,480 made in its first week? Oh God. 121 million worldwide. Okay. What's hilarious about that 628 00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:45,840 is that everybody who was watching it out of curiosity, so that's as much as it will 629 00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:51,200 ever make. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see. It's the last Joker film in this universe anyway. 630 00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:55,400 So that's fine. Oh really? Yeah. I would have sworn that Warner Brothers are going to be 631 00:56:55,400 --> 00:57:00,480 like, guys, you have to. We've got another 500 mil, but we need to write off the tax. 632 00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:07,600 Please. Have we got a comment corner? We do, but we don't have any time. So what we're 633 00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:13,000 going to do, we've got an episode planned in a couple of weeks where we've got, it's 634 00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:18,200 a big one. It's some big news. It is a big one. Some big news. Not necessarily pleasant 635 00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:24,160 news, but we'll see. We'll got panic room and then we'll do a big bumper comment corner 636 00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:29,120 on that week. Okay. After panic room. All right. Well, all right bud. If that's the case, then 637 00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:33,160 I guess we are fully out of time. Guys, thank you so much for hanging out with us. It has 638 00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:38,400 been an absolute pleasure. We love and appreciate each and every one of you wholeheartedly. 639 00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:41,820 Thank you for spending your time with us. Ben is now going to thank you for spending 640 00:57:41,820 --> 00:57:44,600 an hour of your week with us, especially at the start of the week. It means a lot, you 641 00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:50,260 know? So he's going to wrap up the thoughts, themes and feelings of this movie into a little 642 00:57:50,260 --> 00:57:55,240 Monday Motivation pep talk while I just tell you to do what society always tells you to 643 00:57:55,240 --> 00:58:05,360 do, which is consume. I'm just going to lean into it, man. It's not fun. It's not paste 644 00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:12,080 well. It's not an entertaining experience, but doing, doing slogging through the self 645 00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:17,160 help work, you know, looking inwards, doing all that stuff. Get your four out of 10. So 646 00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:21,760 fuck it. You know, I mean, be speed, be kiana on a bus. I think is the point of the film. 647 00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:48,760 I think that's the takeaway from today, buddy. I think that's where we're at.