Have we got an open for this week?
Yes, we need to reiterate the swear jar.
We've sworn like sailors for two and a half years.
I thought that was just the Fincher series.
Are we doing this for this as well?
For Joker as well?
Going forward, we're trying to professionalise.
Oh, I'm 35, Rob.
You know what I mean?
When do I hit the age where people stop policing?
When you stop having a podcast.
Don't worry, Ben, might be soon.
All right?
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Every Movie Ever podcast.
My name is Ben Groves.
And my name is Rob Macfarlane.
Welcome to the show, a movie podcast slash mental health check in for two
broken, broken brain boys talking around their problems, but not about their problems.
Never.
Laughing, laughing at movies, you know, laughing at movies.
We don't have problems.
But before we get to what we're doing, Ben, let's get into the most important
bit of the week, which is how are you doing?
I'm doing all right, man.
Throat hurts from yelling at people, road rage.
You know what I mean?
It rained a little bit and everyone drove 25 miles under the speed limit forever.
So that was great.
How are you, buddy?
I'm looking for the bit in my life where I can dance down some stairs in juggalo makeup.
Hell yeah, man.
I'm currently at the bit where I'm sort of getting repeatedly smashed over the head with a sign.
So, yeah, we'll move, we'll move.
But that may have given the listeners a bit of a clue as to what we're getting into.
Tell them today, buddy, we are doing Joker.
We are. We are.
We've got too much to get into this week.
So we were going to get into what movies inspired Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix,
how this touchstone of incel culture came to life on the page.
In what universe can a man get this skinny and still be terrifying?
And most importantly, we're going to try and diagnose the Joker using the DSM 5 manual.
Are we?
Yes.
Oh, God.
Right.
I've spent weeks on this.
That's upsetting because there's very little to do in the film.
I want you to picture something, Ben.
Picturing it?
I want you to picture a big red bus going around the United Kingdom with some massive
lies on the side about how good Brexit will be.
Oh, that was good.
Yeah, they had a water fight on the Thames.
Right. I want you to imagine the Amazon rainforest is on fire.
Oh, that makes me sad. But OK.
I want you to imagine widespread protests bringing out millions in Hong Kong,
OK, hundreds of thousands in India and about 12 people outside Area 51.
That was the important one.
Yeah. The year is 2019.
2019?
I'm still I'm still a raging sex, drugs and rock and roll machine on the verge of a third breakdown.
Yeah.
Your sad, twisted kind of flow in through a weird existential crisis
that's been prolonged for the last eight years.
Ben, you're telling me you've not had a single bit of character development since 2019?
No, I'm working on it.
It's a slow burn.
Fuck you. This is the drama that you've been craving.
This is the three hour Vietnam drama that you love.
All right. It's looking more like a soap opera, mate.
My name's Robin. I'm fucking hilarious.
But the year is 2019.
Good.
We're both in different forms of crisis than the one we're in now.
Good.
And Todd Phillips brings the Joker to screen.
Yeah, he does.
Between 55 and 70 million.
That's actually crazy. I thought it would have been way more than that.
Right?
Yeah. To build all them steps.
Weirdly, they've they've become a bit of a nuisance to the people who live near and use those steps.
I can see that.
Yeah.
Did you watch this for the first time for this show? Because I remember not that long ago,
suggesting that we cover this.
Yeah.
And you were like, oh, yeah, probably need to watch that.
Yeah.
And I did it. I sort of told you off.
I was like, what? You've not seen Joker?
What, bro, have you not seen Joker?
And then you were like, yeah, I've just not got around to it yet.
And I'm like, that's rational. People have limited time.
Yeah.
And then you've now brought it.
So at a certain point, I imagine you watched it.
Please don't say you picked it.
Just did you just pull a card and go, oh, it's Joker.
So I didn't I miss this in the cinema because I'm not a big Batman guy.
So naturally, I'm not going to be a big Batman villain solo movie guy.
Also, you never know if you go to a Batman movie and someone starts laughing a bit too
loud in the front row, that's what you lost.
That's what I mean. You know what I mean?
I can't have someone go all Green Goblin on me.
You know what I mean? I don't know, DC.
Fuck you. It's Marvel.
Oh, no, no, it's the cinema shooting I was referencing.
Oh, far classier.
Yeah. Yeah. OK. That's way better. OK.
You see, we can't swear, but we can still be terrible people, Ben.
Have I sworn yet? I think I might have. I don't know.
Well, someone's counting.
Someone's waiting to send an owl picture to you.
Fuck.
Oh, I'm not editing that out.
I'm not editing that out. That's two now.
That's two now. It might be two, but it might be more.
He's shredding his swear word. Yeah, maybe.
I saw this, I don't know, like a year or so after it was out in the cinema.
And it was because everyone was banging on about it.
Everyone was talking about being sort of like, it's amazing.
It's not a superhero movie per se.
And I was like, shut up. It's The Joker. Right.
Obviously. Right. It's a superhero esque movie.
Did you enjoy it when you watched it?
I blew my absolute nips off me.
Honestly, I watched it going and being sort of like, oh, this is another DC romp.
And it's going to be goofy and over the top.
And then I came out of it and I was like, that is probably one of the most
harrowing looks of how society treats mental health that I have ever seen on the big screen.
And I didn't even see it on a big screen.
And it just it just broke me, mate. It broke me into pieces.
And I got reminded of this a little while ago.
Obviously, the new one's coming out.
I got reminded of it a little while ago. Watch it. Watch it again.
Very excited for the sequel. It's insane.
When did you see it? What's it mean to you?
Give me a dish. I saw it at the cinema.
I was very confused about it because I'm a big fan of the comic books Joker.
Not having an origin or having five or six.
OK. The idea that he is Batman is order and Batman is a sort of perverse.
There is justice and I will make it right.
And I like Joker as we covered when we did the Christopher Nolan Batman trilogy.
Yeah. And we talked about Joker being the the casual and indifferent
unfairness and cruelty of the world.
It doesn't have an origin. No, right.
It just exists. It's just there. It just exists.
It just exists. It's always existed.
And it doesn't matter where it came from, because it's doing things to you right now.
Also, it doesn't matter how you deal with it, because it will forever
just keep coming back a permanent face. Right. Right. Right. Exactly.
So I was a big fan of that.
I was like, I can I see so much of that in my life. I love it. Good.
And then Todd Phillips comes along and goes, well, guess who?
I'm going to give a canonical origin to.
And my God, if canonical origin is not a tongue teaser, that I'm not even going to
attempt to say it because I would physically melt.
And then I saw it and I realized that it's not the Joker, it's Joker.
This is well, we'll get into what universe.
I've called it the Joker all episode so far, but thank you for that, bud.
Thanks for correcting me now.
It's not the Joker. It's not the definitive Joker.
OK, I see. It's Joker. I see. Right.
Yeah, I misunderstood.
And then I overreacted. So I apologize. Thank you.
I've written the breakdown this week. It is a little different.
I'm going to need your help on this one, mate, because I've written it
with a very specific idea in mind and I have not communicated this idea to you
at all yet. So for new listeners, let me just quickly communicate to them
that this is your last spoiler warning.
Oh, this we are talking quite depth about the movie.
And in order to refresh people who perhaps haven't seen it recently
and want to know what we're talking about or be reminded of some of the themes
of the film, we sort of go through the three acts of the movie at the front
so we can just get on with talking about what we want to talk about.
It's not some sort of watch along with no eyes.
Yeah, if you don't want to be if you don't want the film spoiled,
literally pause the show right now, go and watch it and then immediately
come back to us because we are desperate for the validation.
We need your attention.
But as you were saying, you need yet more help.
I do. I need some help from you.
So I've written this with a very specific idea in mind.
I've not told you about it at all.
So here is my chance to whilst recording.
Lovely. Yeah.
So because this film is quite dark, it's quite harrowing,
it's pretty intense in places, quite violent in places,
but it's pretty dank all the way through.
You know what I mean?
So I thought we could do this in a fun way, right?
So we present it in like a fun, bouncy, charming Disney kind of vibe.
You know what I mean?
Disney like Disney VHS from the 90s?
Nah, buddy, like Disney Channel.
Oh, that's great.
The one we couldn't afford to have in our homes that we've never seen.
Oh, I've never seen it. No, I've never seen it.
But I think...
How I imagine Disney Channel.
That's what I want from you.
For this reason, I want you to give me what you think Disney Channel is.
And what I need you to do is I want you to kick us off.
Act titles included, please, buddy.
We're having a breakdown.
Act one.
Hi, I'm Arthur and welcome to the Disney Channel.
World, meet Arthur Fleck, a mentally ill and socially disabled man
struggling to find his place in a bleak and uncaring Gotham City.
I was not prepared for the accent.
He works as a clown for hire while aspiring to be a stand up comedian.
He lives with his frail mother Penny and grapples with a neurological condition
that causes uncontrollable bouts of laughter.
Arthur is continually subjected to mistreatment, both from society at large
and his coworkers.
His encounters with social services and his attempts to connect with others
reveal his deep loneliness and despair.
The turning point comes when he is attacked by a group of teenagers,
setting the tone for his mounting frustration and hopelessness.
Just as things are going from bad to worse, social servicing funding is cut,
meaning no more therapy and no more medication for jolly old Arthur Fleck.
I was so unprepared for that.
You have no idea.
If you think I'm not going to send it, you're right.
That is actually incredible.
Fair play.
I can't do that accent, but I'm going to give it a go.
You ready for this?
Ben, having read act one and I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Thanks.
Having read act one, it's exhausting to do, so it's going to be exhausting to listen to.
Got you.
I love it.
Yeah.
Let's keep the writing style, but if you could do a sort of Northern advert for a bank
or something evoking times of old, think like Hovis Bread.
I got you.
Okay.
Warm, comforting, homely Midlands man.
All right.
Talking about times past.
I've got you.
I'm not going to.
All right.
I've got something for this.
I've got something for this, but you're ready.
Okay.
Act two.
That's so not Raven.
Arthur's life spirals fast.
His life spirals further out of control after he's fired from his job for bringing a gun
into a children's hospital.
So not Raven.
On his way home, he is harassed by three drunken businessmen on the subway and in a moment
of desperation shoots them all in the face.
That's so not Raven.
So not Raven.
This act of violence unintentionally sparks a movement against Gotham's wealthy elite
masters donning clown masks in his image.
That's so not Raven.
Arthur emboldened by his newfound notoriety begins to embrace his darker impulses.
He learns disturbing truths about his mother, including the possibility that he may be the
illegitimate son of billionaire Thomas Wayne.
That's looking like it might be a bit more Raven, aye?
Daddy money bag's a bit more Raven that, isn't it?
All right.
Feeling betrayed by the few people he trusted, he kills his mother and form a co-worker in
cold blood.
Oh, that's immediately back to being so not Raven.
After appearing at a local comedy club and bombing in front of his imaginary fake girlfriend,
Arthur's transformation into the Joker accelerates as he prepares to appear on his idol,
Murray Franklin's talk show.
Hi, I'm Joker and welcome to the Disney Channel.
Yay!
Arthur, now fully adopting the Joker persona, appears on Murray Franklin's show to talk
about his stand-up show, but is immediately ridiculed.
Ooh!
During the live broadcast, he confesses to the subway murders and delivers a chilling
monologue about society's indifference to the suffering of the marginalized.
Oh, that's so cool.
Oh, wait, maybe if I go...
He then shoots and kills Murray on live television.
Oh my god, Goth.
Creating widespread panic and chaos.
No, even I can't do that.
This act of violence becomes the catalyst for a city-wide riot with Gotham descending
into anarchy.
Amidst the chaos, the Joker becomes the symbol for the disenfranchised gun of a camper now,
cementing his transformation.
After the city has eaten itself alive, we join Joker in Arkham State Hospital, laughing
maniacally.
Ha ha!
Hoo hoo!
Hee hee!
Ha ha ha ha!
Was this real?
Did it?
Did it really happen?
Or is this a reflection of my own mind?
I don't know.
He escapes from an interview leaving a bloody trail, whilst dancing down the corridors of
the asylum.
Next up on the Disney Channel, some other horribly abused child who in 25 years time
will be horribly mocked for turning up by the ruthless media giants who throw trauma
at children faster than British TV presenters return to their careers after admitted to
being a literal nonce.
Ha ha ha!
That could go either way.
That's either hilarious or it's horrible.
Either way, we tried the Disney Channel.
We don't know the Disney Channel, but we tried it.
You know what I mean?
Well, regular listeners, welcome back to being the only one still tuned in.
Ha ha ha!
If you are a new listener still here right now, let us know.
Drop us an email.
Welcome.
If you tolerated that, you trust me, the show's for you.
Yeah, this is it, man.
If you're here now, woo!
Are you in for a treat?
Quick point of order, Ben.
Is nonce a swear word?
And for the benefit of our American listeners who don't speak goblin, what is a nonce?
Pedophile.
And it's not a swear word.
OK, fantastic.
That means we're only on three.
Oh, I put one in the breakdown!
Sorry, sorry, sorry!
You get one more before I get more owls.
Why is everyone sending owls?
Where are the crabs?
People are sending owls, Ben, because they know which side the bread is buttered on, my friend.
They know who the talent is.
Stop going Disney Channel.
You're going to do this all the time.
I hate that I've introduced you to it.
Yeah, yeah, I am.
I'm going to find, it's my new talent now, mate.
I've found a new talent.
I can do the Disney Channel voice.
Speaking of which, I'm going to do the voice of the Disney Channel.
Speaking of nonces!
Are we sure it's not?
Welcome to the transition. Speaking of nonces, I found your people in this film, mate.
Did you spot them?
Sorry, sorry, that can't be the transition.
That can't be the transition.
Speaking of nonces, you found my people.
I've painted us into a Disney Channel corner.
I need to get us out.
It needs to go.
Right, because let's just the record state, Ben thinks nonces are my people.
No, no.
No.
Not at all.
It's just a fun word that poor people use for rich people.
Yeah, it might be rich, but it's probably a nonce.
Get to the point, Ben.
Chaplin, buddy, your people in the theatre.
They were watching Chaplin.
We did a three episode arc about how he's not.
No, they listened.
I reckon they're the people that listened.
We tanked numbers of about the entire film.
We're not going to be able to do that.
We tanked numbers of about the attendance in that theatre.
I reckon it was them.
They listened to your Chaplin trilogy.
Again, I brought the Charlie Chaplin series because I thought as a podcast that covered every movie ever,
it would be worthwhile going back in time,
looking at the very foundation of cinema,
and looking at one of cinema's most iconic characters and celebrities
that people know even if they've never seen one of his films.
And I was like, well, maybe, maybe come with us and we'll show you some of those films.
Guess what? No one came along.
Yeah, fat lot of good that did.
Not a single person tuned in.
We should have done Buster Keaton, you know what I mean?
We could have done early stunt work, we could have done early wire work,
we could have got into a whole little bit like this.
Buster Keaton does all that, but there's absolutely no plot, story or subtext.
It's just look at this man do this thing.
It's the Fast and Furious of the 1920s, Ben.
Yeah.
And now I say that out loud, I should have led with that, you're right.
Yeah.
It is 100% your take.
I thought it was interesting that something that I brought was appeared in a film that you love,
that you could have gone, oh, I've seen that film.
You've seen all of the film that he watches in that theatre.
Tell you a film you haven't seen that's probably more important.
Do you know a movie called The Man Who Laughs?
The only reason I know this is because you wrote those three words,
Man Who Laughs, in our notes.
Well, that surprises me, Ben, because it's a film that's right up your alley.
It's a 1928 romantic gothic melodrama.
Oh, continue.
It's directed by legendary director Paul Lenny about a man who as a child is facially disfigured
to have a permanent grin on his face.
Oh, don't stop.
I can't keep those. Ben, people have these in headphones.
I'm not keeping them. I am keeping those adlets in.
And they're on you. I'm tempted to add them to the swear jar, but it's fine.
No, this movie is super important because it's super important to the character.
So the film is part horror, it's part romance.
It's a German expressionist movie. Now, I know you're a Fast and the Furious fan, Ben.
So what I've gotten written here is...
I like movies from the 20s. I like this.
Right, OK. So there's a film called The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari.
It was Nicolas Cage's favourite film before he saw Paddington 2.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Caligari's great.
Right, OK. You've seen that.
It's classed as like the first horror film. It's like enormous.
For those of you who have no idea what German expressionism is
and haven't seen The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, you can look up on the YouTube,
the video for Living Dead Girl by Rob Zombie.
Oh my God. That's almost just a Caligari remake.
You can watch the entire film, Cabinet of Caligari, with Rob Zombie singing.
That's crazy.
Vocalizing over the top.
Yeah, singing's a strong word.
Singing's a strong word for Rob Zombie.
Anyway, Man Who Laughs was a huge, huge part of how Universal laid the groundwork
for their Universal Monsters catalogue of films.
It was the same makeup guy, it was the same set designer.
OK. Like it's an important movie, right?
Yeah, yeah.
In Joker, the childhood damage isn't a grin that's cut onto his face,
except it kind of is, because it's an involuntary laugh from childhood damage.
Ooh, it is.
It's not German expressionism, but it is Scorsese 70s.
And the romance is there, it's just with an imaginary lady. It's much darker.
Oh my God.
Do you want to know why they reference this, some would say, obscure 1928 film, Ben?
Go on.
Right, dear listener, just put into Google, The Man Who Laughs.
I'm going to join you, bear me one sec.
Because Bill Finger, Bob Kane, they disagree as to what their roles are in the 1940 creation of The Joker,
but they both agree that his smile was influenced by a photograph.
Right.
Wow.
Influenced or traced, Ben, that is The Joker.
Dude, this is The Joker.
That's a photo of The Joker in 1928.
Oh my God.
Also the Spanish name El Hombre Quiri.
I love this.
Joker as a visual character.
Yeah.
Not original.
It's from this film.
There are some thumbnails where it is literally just The Joker.
This is crazy.
So as time went on, comic book covers would go back and reference this,
and they would then use it as a heavy inspiration.
So when Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix were making this movie,
they wanted to go back to the source, source, source and be like,
okay, this is kind of interesting.
What can we lift from here?
Yeah.
That's where they get the childhood injury.
That's where they get the, this isn't a thing that he's chosen to be.
I love this.
Okay.
It's not Expressionist in this movie.
It's Scorsese 70s.
It is.
Character study movie.
It is.
And speaking of Scorsese,
Right.
I've also done a little bit of early referencing on this film, Bud.
All right.
King of Comedy.
Scorsese movie.
Yeah, I have.
I remember it being the longest five hours of my life,
and it's only an hour and 15 minutes long.
Yeah.
Hour and 50 minutes.
Literally feels like two weeks.
Also, it's Joker told from a slightly different perspective.
It's the exact same plot.
Rupert desperate to be a standup comedian,
obsessed with a talk show host.
It's insane.
Yeah.
But also De Niro appears in both films,
both King of Comedy and Joker.
He does, yeah.
De Niro appears in King of Comedy as Rupert,
the man who is obsessed with the talk show host,
and then appears in Joker as the talk show host.
Yes.
Both Rupert and Arthur Fleck,
they both get famous after their appearances on said talk shows.
Yep.
As they do.
Although Arthur is kind of reminiscent
to a bunch of different De Niro characters
from a bunch of different Scorsese movies.
He's got the weird deranged delusional antics
from De Niro in Taxi Driver.
It's so Travis Bickle.
It's bleeding off the screen.
The bit where he's got a gun in his flat
and he's just mooching about in a mirror.
And then he shoots the wall.
You know what I mean?
The unhinged anger issues like De Niro and raging bull.
See what I mean?
It's insane.
Todd Phillips is obviously inspired by Scorsese.
Yes, yes.
And it really, it seeps through in the Joker,
but not in a way that makes you go, oh God, not this.
It comes through as like a very subtle, very delicate,
but a very well thought out and respectable homage.
And I love every second of it because he takes it
and he does it in his own way as it,
but with like a little tip of the hat, like a little,
I see you.
So here's an interesting thing as to why that is.
So Todd Phillips, who directed and co-wrote this picture,
is best known for the Hangover movies.
Yeah.
That was his big breakthrough.
The first of which is actually a great film.
Incredible.
Remember being.
Terrible.
His utter shit until you rewatch it.
Stop swearing, Rob.
It's very careless of you.
We have a swear jar on the go.
That's one for me, three for Bear.
That's about nine for you.
Anyway, he did a movie with Jonah Hill and Miles Teller
before they both became separately,
but parallelly exposed as massively egotistical,
narcissistic poo-poo heads.
Here we go.
What a vocabulary jump that was.
It's called War Dogs.
I've seen it.
It's good, but it's not box office cat.
I think it's a good film.
It's good, but like, it's not going to get bums on seats, right?
And so at the premiere for that movie,
he was staring up at a superhero poster.
Okay.
I'm almost certain looking at the timelines
with Suicide Squad, which makes this film even less original.
And this is a direct quote from Todd Phillips, and he says,
What do people really want to see?
The movies that I grew up loving,
these character studies from the 70s,
you couldn't get those movies made in this climate.
I'm staring up at this billboard and I said to myself,
what if you did a movie in that vein,
but made it about one of these characters?
Ooh.
He nailed it.
He's nailed it.
And he's gone, he's gone.
There's a lot of criticism at the moment of cinema generally,
and the thought, oh, it's all getting stupid
and it's all doing this.
Oh, superhero movies.
This guy tried.
You know, this guy was like, I agree with you.
Let me smuggle one in to the box office
by stapling a clown mask on the front.
And then everyone went, oh, it's too similar to King of Comedy
and Taxi Driver and Raging Bull.
What do you want?
How can they please you?
Let the man cook.
He's giving you what you say you want,
and then you're still not good enough?
What a shame.
Joaquin Phoenix, weirdly, had wanted to do a project like this for years.
He'd been asked again and again and again and again to be in the MCU
and had always said no.
There's an interview he did with Collider magazine
before the movie came out.
It had just been announced.
And he claims, Phoenix claims he had the idea
for this sort of movie a few years before Phillips.
So Joaquin Phoenix.
Yeah, it was a great idea, but I already thought of it.
Right.
And also, I've got this quote written down
and just reading it, it's so clearly the sort of conversation a man has
when he has no idea where the sentence is going to end.
Okay.
Joaquin Phoenix.
Three or four years ago, I called my agent and I said,
why don't they take one of those characters
and just make a lower budget film about it?
You know, a movie but a character study.
And why not take one of the villains?
And I thought, you can't do the Joker because, you know,
it's just you can't do that character.
It's just been done.
So I was trying to think of other characters.
And he said, I'll set up a general meeting with Warner Brothers.
And I said, I'm not going to go.
I can't go to a general meeting.
So I forgot about it.
Oh, okay.
So that's the end of the quote.
Cool.
That makes sense.
Then I heard about this idea and I was like, oh, that's so exciting.
That's the kind of experience I wanted to have with a movie based on a comic character.
I felt like you could get this on screen.
That's just that's a man used to being told exactly what to say when.
That is a string of conscious.
That's a man who knows exactly how to act when he has an entire dialogue written for him.
He's like, yes, I can do this.
When he's talking on his own, he's like, oh, my God, is this what it am I?
Am I a real boy?
I love all of that.
And I'm super.
And I'm glad that they did their own thing.
You know, it's not it's not a DC.
It's not it's not part of the you know, you know, I know, I know.
I was hopeful about it.
I was worried it was going to be that.
Yeah, I know.
I know.
I was a bit nervous about it, but I was really into this because I was I was getting a bit nervy that it was part of a sort of ongoing idea to do like, oh, here's a multiverse from the DC angle, which is, you know, it's kind of happening.
But at the same time, I didn't want this to be ruined by it.
Yeah.
So, baby, I have you stepped into multiverse.
Oh, it's not coming off.
That's another swear word, Rob.
God damn it.
The penalty for that is that listeners can send to any of our social media accounts or every movie ever UK at Gmail pictures of owls or crabs.
Mainly, one per listener.
Yeah.
But crabs, please.
There's been so many owls, man.
I've dropped my phone twice.
Yeah, two hours.
I know.
And I dropped my phone twice.
Right.
It was horrendous.
You can't afford to replace that phone.
We are so poor.
Yeah.
It cost me 50 pounds and it is financially debilitating for me to replace that phone.
But I was nervous that this was going to get ruined by the whole the DC canonical multiverse and going on.
So I looked into it and it was confirmed that this is like a complete standalone.
There's no canon connection.
I did get a little bit excited and started thinking, well, what about if it's from like an obscure comic run that I'm not aware of or like an interesting comic line that I can really get my teeth into?
Because to be honest with you, I've been desperate for a storyline from DC to be recommended to me for years now where it's like.
I'm like, oh, I'm going to be good.
This will get you into DC.
And every time I try and get into one, I'm like, it's fine.
It's fine.
But I thought I was hoping that I could like discover some gold there, but it's not it's not canon to any film.
It's not canon to the DC universe.
It's not canon to any comic book run as of yet.
But that's not to say that it won't be one day.
Oh, God, where is this going?
What have you done?
I'm kind of hoping that it does.
I'm kind of.
Really?
I'm hoping that this sincerely dark, deranged and messed up individual ends up in like another Batman timeline.
Oh, no.
Like think about how fun it would be there.
Like the obvious one is it is for it to merge with the Batman because the Batman's quite like a gritty, dark, broody.
Yes.
And it's a great film.
Then the movie can be seven hours long.
That's what I mean.
Two Nirvana songs in it.
Yeah.
Now there's nothing in the way.
Yeah, that'd be great.
But but just let's just let's just take a minute to go on a little thought experiment here.
Picture Wacky Phoenix's Joker versus Apocalypse.
See what I mean?
Fun, right?
But picture him in like the Snyder verse.
So you've got Superman just absolutely belt in Wonder Woman across Central Park, right?
You've got Batfleck, right?
It was like I'm rich and huge burning people for fun.
I don't need body armor.
I have guns.
My mom's name was Martha.
Where am I?
I've got diabetes.
And then at the same time, you've got Joker just just dancing down some stairs in the distance.
That's kind of all he could do.
That's going to be so good.
See, I went a different route because I saw your headline.
What universe is this in?
Yeah.
And I just went, I'm choosing to believe this takes place in the Friends universe.
That's not even a Batman universe.
No.
You just want this to be like what?
You just bomb Central Park at some point.
Yes.
I feel like they're probably sat in the audience somewhere.
And the reason no one's laughing is because there's just four obnoxious friends who are all apparently poor,
but have a huge loft in Manhattan and don't need a job.
Yeah. Also lot of whites.
Right. Exactly.
Lot of whites.
Exactly.
Oh, don't.
I've got a whole thing about the politics on this.
Yeah, same.
It's fine.
We'll get to it at some point.
Never.
No, we won't.
Why not?
That's such a lie.
I just love the idea of like an episode of Friends opens and there's a knock at the door and it's Arthur Fleck covered in rain.
He just comes in and sits on the sofa.
Yeah.
And they're like, we need you to leave now.
Yeah.
And you're the guy from down the hall, right?
And he's like, I had a bad day.
But everyone, all the audience is like, this is so kooky.
Right. And then it's just brutal murder.
Yeah. He just shoots Ross in the face and then starts laughing.
Dude, I'm down for this.
I'm down for this.
Good, good, good, good.
But it also led me on a bit of a rabbit hole where I was like, it gives Joker this sort of unique ability to draw influence from every other Joker that's ever existed.
And there's some similarities between Jokers of past that I picked up on that.
I didn't pick up on my first time around, but this time really looking at it was like a great, great little tidbit from top to the lips.
Right. So you've got Cesar Romero, first Joker from 1960s or the 1960s Batman film.
It's incredible. I've gone back and watched it. It's amazing.
The similarities between 1960s Batman Joker and the goofiest movie that exists and Joker of 2019, the darkest Joker movie that exists is amazing.
You've got this sort of almost childlike innocence.
Right. It's the same makeup as well. It's not the same, but it's very similar.
Over the top cartoonish, very 1950s, 60s birthday party clown.
Juggalo makeup. He doesn't understand how magnets work.
I love that so much. But in like in all of the darkness of the Joker, Joaquin Phoenix is almost lighthearted.
Almost slapstick in comparison to where we've been for a fair few years now with Batman movies.
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Everything's super serious, super dark, super like, I'm so goth. You know what I mean?
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
You've also got comparisons with Jack Nicholson's Joker. Horribly traumatic events happen to them that triggered their descent into becoming the Joker.
It's tenuous, but I'll give it to you.
It's tenuous. If you think that's tenuous, wait for my Heath Ledger connection, buddy.
Pure conjecture corner. Welcome.
Come sit on daddy's knee. Never saying that again. Apologies everyone.
Apparently my people are nonsense. You were trained to be a projectionist, right? No. You're really good at it.
What does it? Oh, I see the joke. Sorry. Go back. Do it again. I'll say yes this time. No, we're good. We're good. Good.
All right. So Heath Ledger, obviously like a mass murdering psychopath with zero empathy. Yeah. Joaquin differs from that because he exhibits similar behaviors, but not enough to be clinically diagnosed as a psychopath.
Whereas Heath Ledger does. And I like this little comparison here of where you're debating whose mental illness is worse.
Who has less empathy? Who does this that and the other? Because all of the personality traits from like previous jokers, bar one, Jared, are all relevant.
A hundred percent. And I think that's an intentional thing that the writers have done because they've gone.
Let's cherry pick. Let's amalgamate. Let's do the best thing. The fact that they didn't take anything from Jared is a blessing, but also let me put it this way.
Even if you think that Joker by Todd Phillips 2019 is a bad film, you have to love it. Yeah, you have to categorically. Jared Leto hates it.
He'd been assured by Warner Brothers. He'd been assured by Warner Brothers that his version of Joker was going to be definitive.
That what he came up with, they would commit to. Right. And then whilst they were promoting, you know, even if you're Jared Leto's agent.
And that meeting, you're like Jared Leto firing his agent. He fired his agent. He left CAA for WME. Right.
Looking to make a switch to apparently deny that it was the competing Joker movies.
But he he argued that he should they should stop the Joker project and he wasn't being treated properly as an Oscar winner.
Didn't he send dead rats and used condoms to his castmates? Right. Because he's not being treated properly.
Yeah. OK, buddy. I'm really glad you brought that up, actually, because it's a fascinating thing when people look at the character of the Joker.
Yeah. And they say, that's my guy. That's my hero. That's my this. That's my the other.
If you've got if you're the sort of person who's got a holographic lenticular poster of the Joker on your wall, I am about to upset you.
OK, I wouldn't apologize. I wouldn't. I would in no way preface this with an apology. There was no sorry there, mate.
OK, I miss heard that. Yeah, as you were in Saltway. Good.
Joker films tend to be a bit of a political litmus test, right? Right. Because the things that happen to this man are awful.
The things this man does is awful. Yes. Right. And you can look at the fact that he's using the blood from his broken nose at the end to paint a smile.
And it's probably the one shot that tells the story of the film. Yeah. He gets his nose bloodied again and again and again.
And then he paints, paints it into a smile. And if you look at that and you go society is a villain.
And I agree that like his his things are rational. That's a real issue. Yes. On the one hand, for Jared Leto with the rats thing, you have to as an actor come to a place of empathy with your character so that you can do those actions pretending like you think they're the right actions. Right.
You have to be able to get into your character's head and rationalize their actions so that you can be motivated correctly in your scene. Yeah.
No villain, no guy playing a villain thinks he's the villain. He's got to be from a position of I'm right.
I believe what I'm doing to be the right thing for the greater good. Yeah. 1000%. While the cameras are rolling. Yes. 1000%.
Jared Leto sending weird stuff to his actors and his colleagues doesn't help anything. No. It just makes everyone really uncomfortable on set, which is going to lead to a really bad working environment where people feel they can't be creative.
Because you're taking up all the room. Yes. No one wants to hang out with a kid with the pockets full of mac and cheese after lunch. You know what I mean? Just just let it go man. Lunch is over.
Arthur again and again and again is looking for help. He's reaching out for help. He doesn't get any. So then when he goes wrong, there is an element of responsibility on the society that created him.
Arguably, there is a point there. Yes. Right. Yes. But that doesn't mean that that justifies what he does. It does not in any way justify his reaction to what this is.
Because it is insane. Yeah. Like, yeah, I'll agree. Right. Mental health is not your fault. If you have problems with your brain, not your fault. We both do. We both do.
And that's not our fault. But it is 1000% our responsibility to not run around and be the Joker. Right. Right. Because also he's not a hero in this.
The scene where he sort of decides that he's going to stop being a victim and become a victimizer, which is which is his big error. Right. Yes.
Is because as a woman being harassed on a train. Yes. Yes. Great scene. He does nothing. He does not. He does nothing. She has to remove herself from the situation.
And the only reason they pay attention to him is because he starts his involuntary laugh. And it's only when he gets attacked that he takes action that he takes action and retaliates.
And then he paints himself. And you even had it in the breakdown. You know, he's the instigator. He's the the reason people are having these riots. It's on every news report.
The only way that he's connected is that the clown mask becomes a way of hiding your identity when rioting. Exactly. The film presents it to you, the viewer, as he did that.
No, he didn't. We're watching the film through the lens of an unreliable narrator who's a diagnosed narcissist.
He has made it about himself and decided I have done this. It gives us a compassionate view into a villain's origin story. Right. Right. It's a tongue in cheek way of putting us on the wrong side of the law and going, isn't it sad?
Right. He dances down the stairs to a song by famed pedophile emperor Gary Glitter. Yeah. If that's not clear enough for you. Yeah. That this is morally objectionable now. Right.
It's insane that that's the song that is like it's one breath away from do you want to be in my gang? Do you know what I mean? It literally is a Gary Glitter song.
And it's like, is this okay? And I was chatting with somebody I watch it with. Is that okay? And I'm like, no, but that's the point. Yes. That's the point. You're not supposed to be rude to this guy. Yeah.
And oh man, I'm so glad you brought this up. You're right. It's a compassionate view into a villain's origin. It's brilliant because he is still a villain's origin. And it may have compassion, but it's not justifying his actions. And the fact of the matter is that he's out there, he's asking for help and he's not getting the help he receives.
He's not getting the help that he needs. Also not his fault. You know, the funding shut down and this and that. And it's very easy to stand there and point the finger at everyone else and go, well now what am I supposed to do? How am I supposed to not become a maniacal murderer with a hand me down gun from another clown?
You know what I mean? Like it's a very specific way. If I had a penny for every time. It could be broader. You might be there saying I'm not receiving my disability living allowance and I'm struggling. Sure. You don't have to receive the clown from the clown gun.
Yeah, but it helps. It helps me make my point. You know what I mean? Juggalos wave the clown guns in the air. With all this being said and done. And I love this movie. Like I genuinely do. I think it's such a clever way to bring people down a peg.
You think you're going into sort of like, you know, all the Joker. He's always been kooky throwing bombs and you know, blowing up ships and stuff. Heath Ledger was crazy. That was a psychopathic murderer, mass murderer. That's going to be an odd one. Wrong.
Well, Heath Ledger's Joker was all the sinister and all the sociopathic that Arthur Fleck is. But you weren't ever expected to relate to him. That's the exact difference. Exactly buddy.
You weren't pulled towards him and you couldn't smell his breath on your own. Yeah. No, that's it. That's just a gross but great way to put it. That's amazing.
Oh, just quickly. I'm going to rudely interrupt. No, it's fine. Continue. There's an issue with researching this film. Researching this film made it worse for me. Oh, okay. How come? It made it better for me.
Yeah, I started reading more quotes from Todd Phillips. Oh, okay. Now, I think Todd Phillips is a brilliant filmmaker. He made this film and I saw this film. Incredible. I think Todd Phillips is a brilliant filmmaker because he left as much of himself out of it as possible.
Okay. We make a lot of fun of people like Andrew Tate on this podcast because we think it's inherently ridiculous because it is inherently ridiculous. When asked recently in an interview promoting Folly Adya, the sequel to this movie that's coming out in a few weeks, someone asked what Todd Phillips thought Arthur Fleck would think of like a bat fleck or, you know, like a full power Batman, not a child in a mansion garden.
Okay. Todd Phillips was quoted. Now bear with me. I think Arthur would be in awe of the alpha male that is Batman. Wow. I really do. I think Arthur would look up and appreciate it. I don't know how to feel about this if I'm honest. I agree with him because Batman and Joker do have a mutual respect for one another. Yeah, of course. Yin and yang.
Batman and Joker finds Batman endlessly entertaining and endlessly impressive and all those reasons he never kills or unmasks Bruce Wayne and all this kind of stuff. It's the alpha male bit. So then I started reading more and then went back to the sort of quotes that he was given when this film came out about why he chose to move from comedies to something as dark as this film.
Okay. Todd Phillips says go try be funny nowadays with this woke culture.
Oh, I nearly swore there were getting the band. There you go. There were articles written about why comedies don't work anymore. I'll tell you why. Because all the fucking funny guys are like fuck this shit because I don't want to offend you. And as we just discussed Ben, he's a big fan of taxi driver. Yeah. Okay. He's a big fan of raging bull and I'm just sat there going. Yeah, I'm really happy that Todd Phillips exists and I'm really happy that Todd Phillips has made this film.
The political let miss test where it is where it's not left. It's not right. It's bottom versus top. Yeah. Brilliant. We can all agree on that. Yeah. Thousand percent. That's what we can agree on. I hate that you've just ruined all that for me. I didn't want to suffer alone. I didn't want to suffer alone and I just wanted it. I wanted everyone to go. When you're having an argument with somebody who's you feel is misinterpreted this film. Yeah. Literature shows that technically they are the most
correct. If you're there going, I don't think it is a right wing film. I think it's quite liberal. No, no, you're wrong. No, you're wrong. You're a bit right. Right. You're a bit right for liking this film. Yeah. Categorically wrong. Don't bring Todd Phillips into the equation. You know. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, after that absolute bummer, I've done some research this week. My God. Okay. I know. But when I
say research, I mean, I've been reading scientific peer reviewed papers and I've been browsing the DSM five. I am all in favor of you doing research. I am less comfortable with you doing your own research. If that makes sense. Oh, if you start posting to Facebook, I've been doing my own research and is a dangerous.
Yeah, that's the first line in my manifesto. I've been browsing. I've been perusing the DSM five. Fantastic. Which is the manual big encyclopedia of how people's brains go wrong. Yeah. It's what's used to diagnose mental illness. Right. So you have to hit a certain amount of points on this check on these checklists for neurological disorders to be ticked off and go. Yep. Diagnosed. Diagnosed.
So I was looking into it because I was like, well, the jokers obviously got summit going on. Right. Yeah. He's edgy. Yeah. You could do with a night nurse. Maybe. Or just in Asia. Just a cuddle. Just a cuddle would be nice. Rose quartz crystal. You just angered at least one Adam smart. Control or critique. Go listen to him. So I was, I was looking into this. I've got a little piece here that I've plagiarized.
Right. From a peer review paper. So the paper goes on to explain, I'm just going to read this verbatim because it's got me and it sort of sums it up in a sentence. Right. The psychopathology Arthur exhibits is unclear. Preventing diagnosis of psychotic disorder or schizophrenia. Right. The unusual combination of symptoms suggest a complex mix of features of certain personality traits, namely, psychopathy and narcissism.
Ooh. And then in brackets, it goes on to say, Joker meets the DSM five criteria for narcissistic personality disorder. So we can take that off the list because he exhibits all signs needed for that diagnosis. So there you go. I should call her.
He also shows the symptoms of pseudo Bulbar effect due to the traumatic brain injury. No pseudo Bulbar effects.
That's after that's, you know, that's after, um, that you get the grass type star, right. And then you give it a red. And then it blows up into this pseudo Bulbasaur and then the pseudo Venusaur. Right. Fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
So after his traumatic brain injury as a child, cause we find out in the film that he was horribly abused by his mother and his boyfriend, which means he now suffers from pseudo Bulbar effect, which is where the uncontrollable laughter. Right. Okay. Um, that's fascinating.
Yeah. So this apparent co, this apparent co-occurrence of both mental disorder and a neurological condition may be confusing for audiences, trying to understand mental illness. And then it goes on to explain, it's a very detailed paper where it starts discussing about how people who aren't necessarily looking into mental health or so clued up on mental health or some of the issues that are surrounded with, you know, mental illness. It might be a bit confusing to those people to look at this film and go, Oh my God, is this what, is this what
it is? Is this what it's like? Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. So if you're sat in a position where you think I'm perfectly mentally well, which is some of you, I mean, not many of you listen for obvious reasons, but for those people who've got friends who are normal, they sometimes don't necessarily know what that can look like. And I think we do our part to go, you know what? We're not all getting clown guns and wearing Juggalo makeup. Some of us have just got podcasts. Unfortunately. Some of us just don't have the right clown friends.
There's an interesting point made there. And I like, I like this because it sort of feeds into where what I took away from this film. And the main thing that I took away from this film is, do you think that this helps or hinders the public's view on mental illness and understanding the struggles of mental illness? Because I think there's an argument to be made for both.
It's such a work of fantasy in so many regards. I think it's a little bit like saying, does Jurassic Park help or hinder the issue of GM crops? Do you know what I mean? It's like, well, kind of both, you know? Kind of. It's in there. It's in there. Yeah. It raises the awareness of what's possible, but I don't think anything, I don't think a rational person would would draw real life wisdom from this film. Got you. Just fans of the Jokers. And if they do, then they're probably
part of the gang. You know, they're probably one of us, gooblegabble, gooblegabble, one of us, one of us.
Or they're on the other side of the fence and they're people with 3D holographic Joker posters on the wall, right?
It's that. It's that. If you watch a work of fiction and you go, oh, I'm going to make real life decisions based on what I saw in that. Get yourself a poster.
There was one really interesting fact that I did find out that there is a real life British neuro criminologist, Adrian Raine, who was so impressed by how accurate this film's depiction of the psychology of a murderer was.
That in an interview with Vanity Fair, he described it as a great educational tool and he stated that he was planning to present film clips during his classes, teaching his students.
Oh, wow.
Not only did Todd Phillips nail it on, on like visual representations of what these conditions can look like, it's to a point and it's so well done.
It's going to be used as educational clips in actual neuro criminology lessons.
Oh my God.
Taught by a real life neuro criminologist. That is a nightmare word.
Yeah.
Why does it? God damn.
Neuro, I nearly said nightmare criminologist. Neuro criminologist.
I hate it.
You know what you shouldn't hate is that this is the first ever R rated movie to cross the one billion mark.
So they turned that 55 to 70 million dollars.
Into a billy?
Into part of the billy club.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
The three comma club.
Very first R rated movie since the invention of the rating.
That's incredible.
Ever cross that threshold.
That's incredible.
You said you were incredible earlier and I don't know if I trust it.
How are you really?
Oh, okay.
I'm great.
Yeah.
Do I trust this?
But shy at the same time.
Okay.
Now I trust it.
Yeah. Great.
Cool.
So I'm in a good one, but I'm in an odd one.
Right.
So a fair few months ago now I went through like break up.
It was very tough and I've been trying to make good life choices and I've been trying to make like better life decisions.
But there's been this weird, weird fear.
Right.
Surrounding everything that I do of how far off rock bottom are you really?
Right.
How far have you gotten really?
Right.
And today I feel like I found out.
Okay.
How?
Today's payday.
I was underpaid a fair whack of what I was expecting.
So this month is I'm already broke.
You know what I mean?
Paid out and I'm brassic.
Which is fine.
I haven't really got much planned that full of horrors coming up.
So we're going to go hang out at that.
Come join us.
If you're going, let us know.
But it's fine because now it feels like, okay, there's a weird fire been lit in my belly where I'm like, is this what I want to be doing?
And the answer is no.
Right.
The answer is obviously what we're doing right here right now.
This is what we want to be doing.
This is what I want to be doing.
There is a fire in me that I'm like, this is where I'm at.
This is what I need to be focusing on this one.
My energy needs to be going.
And today just reaffirm that and sort of push me in the right direction.
I was like, I'm grateful for that.
Right.
So it's a bad thing, but it's a great thing at the same time.
Shortly after getting paid, much less than I was expecting.
Realizing you'd been completely screwed over yet.
Realizing I'm just as poor as I was the day before payday.
Yep.
I went to the boardroom gaming cafes to go see the lovely, lovely people there.
Incredible.
And bumped into someone who I wasn't expecting to see.
Right.
Take it back a month ago and it would have been like heart palpitations and weird panic.
It would have been like, oh, my day's ruined now.
But because I was already having like a horrible day.
It was fine. Nice.
Just I just realized that I was a little bit more healed than I thought I was.
Right.
And that was the silver lining in that situation.
So I've come away from today, it being a bad day, but I've come away with more
motivation, a clearer vision of what I want to be doing and where I need to be.
The steps I can take to do that.
And I've also taken a moment to truly
appreciate how far I've come in the last few months.
And it's a really weird sense of pride.
Yeah, good.
I'm not jealous at all because I have none of that.
And I don't I genuinely don't.
I was going to do a joke and be like, oh, no.
I immediately went back to feeling guilty and I was like, oh, now I'm at rock bottom.
I can't even make the joke, buddy.
Like, it's difficult to see internally.
Like you don't have a we've got a mirror by the front door.
And I check in the morning, I've got a raging acne spot on my nose or something
before I go and prepare food for people.
But we don't have an internal one of those.
It's just it's impossible.
Yeah.
But I see you and I see you improving and I see you getting better.
Thanks, man.
I was going to make a joke, be like, oh, yeah, I'm so jealous because I have none of that.
But like,
bro, you're kidding.
You're the biggest source of inspiration for me.
It's insane.
I want you to change that immediately.
Absolutely not immediately.
What are you doing?
I've watched you go from strength to strength to strength, and it can be the smallest steps
possible, but you do it with such fucking ferocity and such determination that I'm like,
I need that spine.
That's where I'm because you are so certain on like whether you realize it or not.
Whether it's a mistake or not.
Right. You will go. This might help.
And then you do it with your full being.
And if it's not the right thing, you admit it with your full being.
And I'm like, I just don't get how someone can just walk that tall and proud into a
solid brick wall and go, ah, you know, I mean, I did just walk into that.
I might have broke my nose.
This is where I'm going.
Bye bye.
Paint a smile with it.
Also, six.
Smash it.
Sorry.
We're way above six, by the way.
What are you rating? What are you rating?
Todd Phillips, 2019 The Joker.
Nine out of 10.
Yeah, I'm going to go with I think I'm going to go with 10 out of 10.
OK, yeah.
I think for me, this is a perfect movie because anything I would change about it
would make it worse. Same.
And there's that smile at the end where he takes Frank Sinatra's.
Some people get their kicks stomping on a dream, but this world's going to turn
either way. There's a book I read called The Stranger by a French guy, Albert Camus.
And in the story of The Stranger, he shoots a man and he goes on trial and he's asked
to feel sorry about it, and he doesn't.
He never does.
And the book is him having these meetings with this priest trying to sort of get
through the morality of it all.
Yeah.
And he never does.
And spoiler warning, he ends up sentenced to death.
And as he's looking up at the stars on his last night, he kind of looking at the stars
and he's confident in the knowledge.
I looked up and beheld the benign indifference of the universe.
It doesn't care.
Wow.
Right.
I killed a guy.
The stars don't care.
I'm going to die tomorrow.
They don't care.
They're benignly indifferent to anything that happens here.
And I think Arthur Fleck
realizes that halfway through this movie and goes, what they're doing to me doesn't
matter. I've been shown time and time again that there are no real consequences for
what they're doing to me.
Nobody cares.
So why don't I start doing it to them and then at least I'll be enjoying my life.
Yeah, dude.
Wow.
And to do that Frank Sinatra song where he giggles to himself.
Some people get their kicks stomping on a dream and then he laughs and she goes,
oh, what's funny?
He goes, oh, you wouldn't get it.
And then this blue world keeps spinning around.
Damn, man.
Yeah, there's so much to this film.
And I think that's why it's a 10 for me.
It has to be.
I see you've written something in the game and then we've got quite a few comment
corners, so it's going to be a long episode unless we hurry up.
Yeah, I do have a game, bud.
Right.
It's a quiz.
Oh, OK. I'm up for this.
Yeah, it's called
Which celebrity has this mental disorder?
Absolutely not. We're not doing that.
We're never doing that.
Nope.
Just one.
All right. It's not that bad.
No, no, no. It's not that bad.
It's not that bad. Right.
Which hugely popular comedian slash actor who played Fire Marshal Bill on In Living
Colour was diagnosed with ADHD at a very young age?
George Carlin, Jim Carrey, Robin Williams or Jerry Seinfeld?
Not doing it. Not doing it.
Comment corner is really good this week.
Which famous NASA astronaut, the second one to walk on the moon, spoiler,
Rub Rub, suffers from bipolar disorder?
No, not doing it.
Right. This is important, Ben.
This is important.
Joe and James.
Zero out of 10.
You don't know this. You don't know this.
OK, a couple of weeks back, a couple of months back, really,
somebody got in touch with a really meaningful message where they were
talking about how they weren't doing too well and that they, you know, they've
thought about doing a podcast and you and I basically bullied them and were like,
oh, the sports show, sports movie show.
Champions of cinema. That's what it's called.
They said we will get started.
I did a couple of Zoom calls and talked about the basic stuff that tripped us up
for ages. Did you?
Yeah, I did.
OK, it's mentoring me.
Oh, check you out.
I make it sound nicer than it was.
Constant source of inspiration.
You do this. You do this stuff in the shadows and then just reveal it months later.
Like, yes, a few months ago, I was Mother Teresa.
Far from it. It was mostly me complaining about you.
Oh, that's fine. I take it back immediately.
In the sea. In the sea.
Now they got in touch and they have said that they wanted to reach out and say
that they are eight episodes published, one in edit and one due to be recorded on Thursday.
They are still loving the process, learning a lot from each and every episode
and getting a lot out of the experience.
I love this. I love this.
They are champions of cinema.
I've listened to a few episodes.
They have no right to be as good as they are, given how short a time they've been doing it.
OK, they've had a little grace period now.
They've had a run up, which is, I think, what we kind of said would be nice for them to have.
Now's the time to turn on the tap of love and say to each and every one of our listeners,
go check out Champions of Cinema podcast. They are incredible.
We also got a lovely email from Helen Homer.
We did. Now, Helen Homer works at the boardroom gaming cafe and she is...
It's almost criminal how good her cheesecakes are.
She's incredible. She has listened to every single episode that we've done ever.
And she did it in like two months.
It's an incredible feat.
I've been there. I watched all of Game of Thrones in like two weeks.
That's insane. That's insane.
That's so much cocaine energy. It's unreal.
I was in a depressive episode at the time, so I just lived on the sofa.
But yes, well done, Helen. Thank you.
So she's emailed us in and she has some points to make, which are all incredible.
I'm going to read this email that she sent in. It's quite long, so bear with me.
Dear Ben and Rob, I started listening to the podcast back in July with the aliens episode.
I came for the ego boost about the cheesecake comments.
And stayed for the fabulously entertaining conversation,
wonderfully open mental health discussion, intelligent and interesting analysis,
and amazingly heartwarming friendship.
That is the sweetest sentence that I've ever read out loud for this show.
Thank you so much.
After cherry picking some of my favorite titles,
I decided I needed to go back to the Spotify beginning
because we deleted a bunch of it.
Oh, God, yeah, but even the Spotify beginning is rough.
We've learned in real time and I listened back to the early ones and I cringe so hard.
I can't listen to elves anymore.
So I needed to go back to the Spotify beginning and listen to all the episodes.
I've just finished and I've absolutely loved it.
Feel like I need a badge now.
After consuming all episodes, I have the following takeaways.
One, I'm appalled that Rob hasn't seen Home Alone, Short Circuit or Matilda.
Thank you, Helen. I am also.
It's because I'm classy. I don't watch children's films.
Matilda is the best superhero that's ever existed.
Short Circuits, amazing. What's wrong with you?
Home Alone, I'll agree, but that's fine.
I don't believe you actually grew up in the 90s.
You definitely need to do an 80s childhood classic season.
This includes the 90s as the best of the 80s happened in the early 90s.
And that's so unbelievably true.
Yeah, after the grilled cheese series and exploitation cinema,
following the much earlier psychopathy testing, I am worried about Ben.
Yeah, we all are. We all are.
Join the queue.
Yeah, same, same. I'm with you.
With extensive, careful listening,
I have established that Ben's catchphrase is, it literally blew my tits off.
And Rob's is, you can't ironically fuck a donkey.
You can't. You're doing it.
Yeah. Are you doing it with irony or not?
Yeah, it will blow your tits off.
I really enjoy listening to discussions of films I would struggle to watch.
Horror, I'm not a fan.
You guys make almost, with a little asterisk, anything fun.
And then in brackets, the asterisk is zone of interest excluded.
Helen, thank you so, so much for getting in touch.
I would like to do a slight tweak going forward.
We talk a lot about how we're doing on here.
Yeah, we've got a lot of lovely messages this week.
We've got Helen's, we've got ones from Champions of Cinema.
Go listen to them.
We also got Bruce Bruce, Tony Berry, Ashraf Issa.
Now, we talk a lot about how we're doing on here,
but I got a few messages this week
that were telling us how other people, listeners were doing.
I think it would be really useful for us to share some more of that.
So if you could email us, dear listener,
a little snapshot of your worries or your troubles or your whimsies
to everymovieeveruk at gmail.com and just make sure, you know,
send us anything, we'll listen,
but just if you're happy for it to be read out on the show, let us know.
If you don't let us know, we won't read it out.
And we'll be your agony uncles.
I think the overriding thing that I see from every message that we get from people
is that we are kind of all trying our best together.
And when none of us are really particularly proud of what our best is,
I think it would be useful for us to all sort of come together and go,
oh, hang about.
We're not doing this alone.
You know, just send us send us send us your woes
and we'll just we'll fix all your problems for you.
Yeah, we we are we're going to be semi-professional agony uncles going forward.
Right. Uncle Ben and Uncle Rob.
Send us your spicy rice.
Oh, yes.
Uncle Ben's spicy rice corner.
Yes. Yes, buddy.
Send us the recipes.
I also we are so desperately over time.
I'm looking at the counter and just,
but I cannot leave this out, Ben.
We are starting a potentially long running collaboration.
OK, who is a man called Jake?
You can find him on Instagram as Jake Lee Army 182.
And he does webcomics that are so desperately funny that I'm furious.
I love this guy.
Guess who's doing a collaboration post this week?
He's doing something with us.
We're doing something with him.
Yeah. So go go check out.
Why? He's so much funnier.
So go check out Jake Lee Army 182.
Please do.
On Instagram.
Incredible.
And he's done a little Joker,
a little Joker commemorative webcomic this week.
Stop it.
I need to. All right.
I'm going to go have a look.
Yeah, do it.
All right.
That is far more than all the time we have.
It is.
We genuinely wholeheartedly appreciate you hanging out with us.
We appreciate it.
It's a Monday to start your week.
Your time is precious and valuable and you've spent it with us.
And we thank you from the bottom of our hearts.
We really, really do.
We love you.
Ben is now going to reward you for that time spent by wrapping up the thoughts,
themes and feelings of this week's movie into a little Monday motivational pep talk.
Whereas me being the cynical one will just do what society always does and tell you to
consume.
If you're feeling downtrodden, if people are letting you down,
if the system is letting you down, it's not your fault.
It's Thomas Wayne's fault.
That rich, rich, rich bellend and tiny Bruce.
Why does he get the tree house full of torches?
Huh?
No, no, no, no, no.
Pull out.
You pull out your red nose.
Go knock on the door.
Hey, buddy, I might be your baby.
You're going to get punched by a butler, but don't worry.
You're going to catch him in the bathroom.
And you know what you can do then get punched in the face by daddy money bags
because you know why?
Because crazy mommy slay Thomas Wayne saying, hey, I need your help.
This isn't what we need.
This is what we need.
Penny Fleck still...
Still kind of would though.
Also...
Because he'll...
And when he does...
Juggalo.
Ben, I cut like the last 30 seconds off for sure.
That's life.
That's what all the people say.