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So Ben, I think it's fair to say that mental health comes with its ups and downs.

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Yep.

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And as having a podcast with both of us who've got mental health issues,

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it's quite nice because sometimes one of us picks the other one up.

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Yeah.

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And sometimes both of us are up.

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Yeah, yeah. They're the good ones.

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Yeah.

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What do we do when we're both down?

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Hahaha.

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Drown, I guess. I don't know. Both free fall.

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Let's see how we feel after this, shall we?

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Let's get the show going.

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Alright, yeah.

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So.

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Hello everyone and welcome to the Every Move Ever podcast. My name is Ben Groves.

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And my name is Rob Macfarlane. Welcome to the show, a movie podcast slash mental health check-in,

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a very needed one.

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Yes.

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The two broken brained best friends talking around their problems,

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but not about their problems. I mean, we'll see.

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Whilst laughing at movies.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah. Look, look, it's a rough one this week. We're going to do it.

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I had a laugh with this one.

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Yeah. It wasn't a happy laugh. It was sheer rage, but it was sort of like a, it was a laugh.

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There was some chuckles in there.

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I, we got so much to get into. Let's, let's first of all deal with the most important thing, Ben.

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How are you?

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Yeah, great, mate. F***ing buzzard.

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I keep sitting in, I keep sitting in my, my family house spare room earning,

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when I break down my salary earning roughly seven to eight pounds per hour at the age of 36.

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And then I think, five years ago, I was really f***ing close to six figures.

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Swear Joe.

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Oh, I'm keeping that one in. It's one.

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Is this, this fine. And more my day just got better.

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Yeah, it did.

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So I'm looking back, Ben, sort of like I was, I was like a, a Nat's wing. There you go.

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There we go.

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I was a Nat's wing away from six figures five years ago.

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Yeah.

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And now I'm 36 sitting in a spare room and a family house earning seven to eight pounds an hour.

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When you really break down my salary. It's really good. I spent all day with a, with a migraine.

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Well, that was nice. I vomited in an alleyway to work.

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Migraine. Well, that was nice. I vomited in an alleyway twice,

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rinse my mouth out with mouthwash and then immediately went back to work.

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It was, it was really fun, man. It was, it was the one. How are you buddy?

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Well, I feel like I've really put a lot of pressure on myself to make sure that David

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Fincher is right, that we really nail this series. And I've sort of turned it into a big

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Gollum where I'm like, this, this just dominates my mind. I'm like, we've got to nail Fincher.

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We've got to really do the job with Fincher. And then I've looked at our week and gone,

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we've got about 45 minutes to record an episode tonight. And then we've just got a million and

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one things to do until it's released. And I'm going, Oh God, we're failing. We're already

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failing. And I'm just in a spiral of like the one thing in my life that I really unequivocally

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enjoy with no complexity, sitting down with you, talking, talking with talking about movies.

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Yeah. And we've barely got time to do that. So Ben, what are we doing this week besides

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drowning in our mental health issues? Well, this week, buddy, we are back on our Fincher train.

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We're covering every David Fincher movie ever. Yeah. And having nailed our episodes on alien

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three and seven, we're diving headfirst into the game. The late 2000s rapper, right? Yeah. No,

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yeah, no, no, no. But the reason, the reason I asked that is because very few people remember

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this film. Good. I don't remember this film all that well before I started watching it.

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Name a song by the rapper, the game game gone, give it to you. I don't know. I don't know any.

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Right. Exactly. There we go. I think, I think the game, it's a poor title for your artistic

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projects because no one remembers it. And when they do revisit, they're disappointed. I think

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Fincher got got messed over on this. So he called this movie, the game writers, our generation

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invented the game where I'm not sure if you remember the rules of the game, but if you think of the

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game, you lose the game. You know what I mean? So we've just lost the game. All of our listeners

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have just lost the game. You're welcome, by the way, Fincher, biggest loss of all, because

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apparently our generation is just absolute nonsense that's just been let to survive on their own,

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without carers or direction. We've got a lot to get into this week, though. We're going to get into

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what David Fincher was up to after the release of Seven. We're going to get into this film is

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nonsense, Rob. Yes, but we're going to get into why this film might be nonsense. We're going to

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get into who am I supposed to be rooting for in this capitalist sob story about a sad millionaire?

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And I'm going to rebut that with probably the human being at the center of it. Yeah. Okay. All

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right. Yeah, fine. I'm excited for this one because to be honest, I watched this film and was a little

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bit like, I might hate Rob, but I also might hate David Fincher. I don't know where the rage goes,

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but it needs to leave. Both of those are incredibly valid things to think and feel.

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However, I think David Fincher, you've been a bit unfair because he's more than a director now. He's

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an institution and I think it's important with any institution, you see how it got there. You see how

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the man became the myth, became the legendary OCD has to be in control at every moment. Can't let go

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monster with a movie camera. Okay. Okay. I'm down for this question for you, Ben. Hit me with it.

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Where Fincher at? Where that man been? What that Fincher do? What that Fincher do since Seven? So

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the release of Seven saw widespread critical acclaim for Fincher as a director. The movie

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pulled in $300 plus million at the box office, which is insane. And Richard Francis Bruce was

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nominated at the Academy Awards for best editing. He was. Now Fincher decided to strike while the

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album's hot and immediately get working on his next feature. But he did moonlight a little bit

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and do a music video for a super forgettable song by a super forgettable band. He's got buzz about

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him. He's had a hit, but you know, it's make or break time now for Fincher. Are you going to,

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are you going to say the name of the song or the band? I am, mate, but I have to Google it

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because I've forgotten. Okay. Cause I know that sounds like a bit, but I was going to say if this

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is a bit that's driven me literally insane. And my skin feels like it's covered in ants right now.

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It was, it was the wall flowers. Right. Yeah. Okay. Remember the wall flowers? Remember their hit

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song, sixth Avenue heartbreak? No, no. See the point. Yeah, you did. All right. Yeah. At least

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my skin's not on fire now. So that's nice. True. When and where, mate, when and where was this,

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was this magnum opus of things that you hate in film made? Cast your mind back with me, Rob.

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Ready? All right. It's 1997. Tony Blair has just been elected as prime minister of the UK.

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Yes. The heaven's gate cult have all just killed themselves. Even better. Titanic is ruling the

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box office as we speak. I actually quite enjoy that film. Yeah, sure. The best CGI I've ever

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seen is in Titanic. Yeah. I'm going to show you some clips. It's fine for the time. It's fine for

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the time. No, it isn't. It's, it's, it's melted Sims. Okay. Princess Diana dies like a phone signal

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in a tunnel. David Fincher is given $70 million to make the game. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How

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much did it make? Stick around to find out. Cause Rob's going to be telling me it cause I don't know

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it. I want to know it cause it's going to make me angry. Um, what does this for mean to you, Ben?

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I'm desperate to know cause I you've, you've seen this before, right? No, this was my first time

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watching it for this episode, right? It's my very first time. I didn't even know that this film

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existed. And to be honest, that's probably a blessing because if I had have seen this film

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before, it would have been once and once only, right? Cause this film made me hate Fincher a

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little bit. No, no, no, no. Okay. I'm, I'm, I'm coming off strong and it's because I'm in,

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I'm in a bit of a pout. I'm coming off strong. It didn't make me hate Fincher a bit. The, the

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film is gorgeous. It's shot incredibly well. It's, it's a super, super delicate, beautifully

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well-made film. It's just, the story is absolute waffle for me, man. There is nothing for me in

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this story whatsoever. All of it's nonsense. All of it's stupid. Right. The worst thing about these

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films, right. Is I get that it's supposed to be like the twisty turning. Who can you trust?

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Yeah. I called it immediately and then just watched it play out. And I was thinking, oh,

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I can't wait for Fincher to prove me wrong. I'm going to feel like such an idiot. And then when

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the ending came around and I was like, I hate, I hate that I got this. I hate it because I said

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something stupid because I was like, oh, this is going to be like a stupid thing. No, it was it.

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That was it. I think I saw this film many, many years ago. Okay. And I think I remembered it as,

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oh, it's kind of interesting. It's not the greatest, but it's, you know, it's a bit paranoid.

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It's a bit delusional. It's a little bit like, oh, what's real. Okay. I rewatched it thinking

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I knew what the film was and I was struck by how incredibly dull and slow and predictable it was.

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Yeah. But then I looked around at what it meant to everyone else and that there are people who

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truly love this. They go, oh, it's a classic. It's this, that or the other. Yeah. And I think

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I know why. We're going to get into it. But before we do, for the people that have seen this film,

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I want to be reminded a little bit of, you know, maybe people like me who thought they knew what

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they were getting into. We're going to remind you, we're going to break down the plot. For

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people who are planning to watch this and haven't yet. Now's your chance to pause and see. All right.

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Now's your chance to kind of go, I'm going to pause there. It's just spoiler warning.

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But immediately come back, immediately return to us. Come home. Come home. You know, welcome in.

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The water's just right. Settle in. Oh my God. We sound like Heaven's Gate now.

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Drink the Kool-Aid. We've got new Nike shoes.

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I think Heaven's Gate were a bit chirpier though. I think they were like, yay,

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come with us and drink the Kool-Aid. We're a little bit more like, oh, fucking hell.

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Swear jar, Rob. Swear jar. Well, that's one each now. All right.

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All right. There we go. I'm not happy about it, but that's fine.

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Shall we play the jingle?

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Having a breakdown.

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We are having a breakdown. What are we doing on air?

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I don't know.

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Why are we doing this? I just want to take a romantic bath with a toaster.

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New York Times. He's a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very,

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Oh God. Even my toaster left me. You know what I mean? That's how it's done it.

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Nicholas Van Orton is a wealthy investment banker living a cold, isolated life. On his

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48th birthday, his estranged brother, Conrad, played by Sean Penn, re-enters his life and

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very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very,

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very, very, very, very very good for you.

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After undergoing a series of psychological and physical tests, he is told that The Game will

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soon begin and will transform his life in unexpected ways.

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The game starts subtly, with seemingly minor disruptions to Nicholas's orderly life,

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but soon escalates into a series of increasingly surreal and dangerous events. His bank accounts

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are drained, his house is vandalised, and he is pursued by unknown assailants. At first,

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Nicholas believes the game to be a cleverly orchestrated form of entertainment, but as the

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danger intensifies, he begins to lose control and becomes increasingly paranoid. He suspects that

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CRS is a front for a criminal conspiracy designed to ruin him. This sets up the central

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theme of the film, the dissolution of Nicholas' sense of control, then his descent into chaos,

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a journey that mirrors the unravelling of his carefully curated life. As Nicholas' paranoia

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peaks, he becomes convinced that everyone around him is part of the conspiracy, including his brother

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Conrad. He believes that the game has blurred the lines between reality and fiction, pushing him

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towards psychological collapse. The game forces Nicholas into situations that strip away his rationality,

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echoing the idea that his carefully constructed identity is just a facade. The film suggests that

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true growth can only come from experiencing vulnerability, a stark contrast to Nicholas' rigid

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adherence to power and dominance. In the climax, Nicholas seemingly reaches his breaking point when

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in a final confrontation with CRS, he accidentally shoots Conrad. Overwhelmed with guilt and grief,

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he jumps from the roof of a building, apparently intending to end his life. However, he crashes

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through a glass ceiling into a stage setup, where he learns that everything, including Conrad's death,

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was part of the game. The final revelation is both shocking and cathartic.

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Luke

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I've written this specifically to trigger you.

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Sam

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Because that was sheer rage bubble that just hit my throat. That wasn't stomach acid. That was rage.

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Both shocking and cathartic, as Nicholas realizes that the game was designed to break him down

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emotionally in order to rebuild him. Like some sort of weird toxic ex. The orchestrated nature

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of his downfall suggests that, paradoxically, Nicholas had to lose everything to gain a sense

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of personal freedom and self-awareness. So just a quick recap, multi-multi-multi-millionaire,

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who owns hectic acres of land in downtown San Francisco, is a hedge fund investment banker,

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is a bit sad and lonely, so the entire world bends to him to make him learn a lesson of

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you should really take a look around and appreciate what you got buddy.

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Luke

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Yeah.

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Sam

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Yeah. The end? Yeah. Fantastic. Excellent film. This film is nonsense.

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Luke

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It is.

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Sam

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This film is pure nonsense. It's incredibly well shot. It's a beautiful film to look at.

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The acting is insane. It's incredible. The thing that gets me is that at every point the film asks

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you to suspend disbelief, it then immediately increases the nonsense tenfold and is like,

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we've done it a bit. Just come on, just do the next bit. Just see how you feel at the next one.

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And then it increases its nonsense tenfold. And it's like, well, you've done it before.

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Just do it again. You know what I mean? And at the end of the film, I felt like I was Nicholas,

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because I was just going along with it, not knowing if I could trust Fincher anymore. And I was still

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doing the stuff that he was telling me not to do. Okay. That's fascinating. I was going to bring

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this up earlier, but part of, I didn't enjoy this film either. I found it dull. I found it unbelievable

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and I'm willing to suspend my disbelief for all sorts of things. You know, Godzilla X Kong, love it.

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Luke

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Tremors best film I've ever seen. You know what I mean?

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Sam

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This, it just didn't do it. It didn't do it. I get that some people suspended their disbelief,

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enjoyed it. I didn't. But the thing that I found interesting about what you said is that you were

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left like Nicholas. You didn't know if you could trust or enjoy David Fincher. And David Fincher

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says again and again in his interviews that what he wanted to do with this film, not what he

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achieved. He doesn't claim that. Okay. Or what he was attempting to do was play with the mystery

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genre. He does that. He does do that. He constantly goes on about like, whenever I shoot something,

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I have to, I'm telling the audience that they have to pay attention. If I just throw a shot of a

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draw into the middle of a scene halfway through, the audience is now going, there's something in

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that drawer. Oh my God. The amount of times, dude, there is so much, there are so many tiny

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details I paid attention to for no reason because they meant nothing, but they were so prevalent.

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There's a, there's a reoccurring theme with flowers and it's one bouquet of flowers that

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I spotted in a hotel lobby, just some woman carrying a jar of flowers. And I was like,

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that's going to come back. But it doesn't mean anything. They came back twice, same flowers.

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And they're, they're sort of degrading as time goes on as flowers would. It meant nothing,

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meant nothing to no one. There was no reason for it to be. There was no reason whatsoever.

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The only thing that I got from it was I was like, okay, so all that's told me is that the woman with

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the flowers is in on the game. And then that was it. That was the, that's the end of my investigation.

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I'm back being a little kid with a German pocket dictionary, pretending it's a mystery novel. Do

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you know what I mean? Like that's, that's just it. The thing, the thing that really got to me about,

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about the, the nonsensical story is suspended belief is entirely fine. Like I, I can,

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I do it daily. Whenever I watch a film of my choosing, I suspend my belief indefinitely.

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Yes. The only thing with doing that is that it comes in sort of a broad sense. It's never,

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it's never laser focused suspended disbelief. The, am I allowed to talk about the end of the

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film where he, we've mentioned it in the breakdown, but you know the bit where he's, he's struck with

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grief at shooting Conrad. There are two moments here that snapped me out of it wildly because

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he's on top of a massive, massive building. Oh yeah. It's like 90 stories. Yeah. And he's

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surrounded by people, right? There is, there is a whole roof for him to choose of where to jump from.

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He's got 360 degrees of freedom as to where he throws himself off this building. CRS have planned

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the exact point that he is going to throw himself off. Not just the point of where he's going to

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throw himself off, but they've also pre-calculated the velocity, the depth of everything, the distance

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that he's going to fall. And he essentially falls onto one of those big blow up stunt man mattresses.

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And it happened and I was like, okay, all right, listen, all right, that's, that's ridiculous.

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But maybe they have some sort of like weird minority report, three cognitives, like in a swimming pool

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in the bathroom. They're trying, they're trying, they're trying to hint that with the testing at

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the start. They know him better than he knows. Right. Okay. They know everything about how he

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thinks and how he makes decisions. And the second bit of that scene that broke me out of it, Rob,

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is that it's brother Conrad makes it down 90 floors in the same through conventional mesh measures.

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He, there is, there is lifts and stairs that are available to him. Right. Yeah. There is him and

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two actors that make it down to the ground floor in the same amount of time that Nicholas does.

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And Nicholas is free falling. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. It's the fact it's either time travel

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or it's some sort of like enormous slide that was built into the building. So there are people

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that are going to say like, Oh, you're just thinking about it too much. You know, it's just a film,

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you two are nerds. And it's like, yeah, but we're not the ones, we're not the ones who've set out

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the stall of think about this. Right. Finch has gone, apply real world rules and try and figure

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this out. And then when we do, and it doesn't make sense, you can't then pull the rug and go, Oh,

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we shouldn't be thinking so much. It's literally a mystery film. Yes. It's like someone saying,

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do you want to come to the cinema with me? And then they drive you to a field and just throw eggs

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at you for six hours. And you're like, this isn't a film. And they're like, no, just don't think about

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it. I didn't set myself up for this. You've given me a premise that I've like gone into thinking

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this is what's happening. And now I'm covered in eggs. I've got reasonings for all of this, but,

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and why I think it, it's like this. Okay. But as a contemporary viewer, I think we've changed

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habits a lot. And there were just little bits of it where I was going, can you imagine trying to

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get insurance? Oh my days. For this game. Yes. Like if I just, if I just, like you be the CRS rep,

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right. I'm trying to get insurance. I'll be the insurance company. Hello. Hi. Um, is this,

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is this public liability? It is. Yes, it is. Yes. Well, hi, how are you doing? My name is,

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my name is Derek. I'm phoning from a company called CRS. Um, brilliant. How can I help you

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with insurance today? Right. So we need insurance. So essentially, um, there's a multimillionaire

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in San Francisco is a bit sad. So what we've planned is the entire world is going to come to

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a standstill and we're going to shoot live rounds of ammunition at him through, uh, walls, through

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windows. Right. We're going to chase him down in cars. There is one part of our plan that involves

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hiring an actor to pretend to be a taxi driver. The taxi driver is going to lock him inside a taxi

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with child locks on. So obviously he can't escape. Um, but I'm hoping, I'm hoping that he has a crank

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for a window that we've laid out somewhere previously, just in his, in his pocket. He hasn't

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put it down anywhere before getting a taxi, cause that would be silly. And we're going to drive that

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into a river and then just hope that he gets out in time. Okay. Um, also we're going to convince him

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that he's killed his own brother with a gun that we hadn't planned for. We have, we've planned for

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the gun. Don't worry. There's blanks in the gun. I don't want to cause a public insurance nightmare.

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There's blanks in the gun, but he's, he's not going to know that he's going to think that this is new

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information to us. He's going to shoot his brother. We're going to pretend that he's killed his

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brother. He's going to be so grief stricken that he's going to throw himself off a building. It is,

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there is no railings. There's no point of like jump here. It's a complete free will choice, but

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what we've done is we've pre-cogged the exact point that he's going to be jumping from. And

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we're just going to put a mattress there. Also, we're building an enormous 90 story slide to make

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sure that his recently not shot brother can get down to the ballroom just in time for when the

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man who's committed suicide lands on the mattress. Buddy, I would have hung up 20 minutes ago.

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Yeah. Same to be honest. I would have been like, why is this my job? Why is this my job? Why do I

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have to make this call? So yes, it is nonsense. It is nonsense. There are two things that I think

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are going on. I think there's the way it was meant to be seen, which is long gone, right? I think

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it's long gone. We'll get back to that. But I'm going to offer you a little olive branch here, Ben.

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I agree with you. The film's not good, but it's more enjoyable if you choose to watch it this way.

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Okay. What if you and I have had our issues about mental health, you know, the whole show is

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structured around the fact that this is good for us to chat. Yeah. Who does Nicholas have to chat to?

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His paid cleaner, his housewife. But he's not choosing to, right? He's not talking to anyone.

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He's at the same age that his father was when his father killed himself by suicide.

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He's under an extreme pressure, but he's also not happy. You and I have both been in situations

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where we're just going through the motions, not because we enjoy the motions, but just because

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that's kind of the easiest thing to do. Yeah. And then we got more and more unwell and we began to

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lose touch with the reality a little bit. And I'm wondering if CRS is a sort of allegory for

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accepting with open arms the consequences of not looking after yourself.

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Oh. And then the whole film is him having a paranoid breakdown, ending with his suicide,

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which the second he hits the ground, everyone's there, everyone's happy.

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And everything's better. And everything's better because it's all fixed now.

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Okay. That's terrifying because I hadn't thought of it that way. And also we were both massively

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career driven. I sacrificed all of my relationships. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, hate that.

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It makes the film make sense because all of the idiocy that happens in the plot,

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it does look at it as an allegory for this man didn't take care of himself. And now,

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because all of the stuff that happens to him is proper rich guy paranoia. They're going to take

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my money. Does she want to fuck me? No, she wants to kill me. But also, swear to God, but also.

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Three. That's three. But also the whole point of the world coming to a stop and him being

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the literal main character of everything makes perfect sense. Attention, because it's his

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breakdown and it's here. Oh my God. That's yeah. Is Fincher a genius? Is this what this film is?

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Have I come into this like iron heart for the wrong thing? The worst thing is, right,

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is you've known this. I've been texting you, being so like, I hate it, Rob. It's this.

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I wrote and you've been sitting on this the entire time. Oh buddy. I don't think it's the intent. I

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think it's an optional way of watching the movie that makes it tolerable. You still struggle with

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the fact that you cannot sympathize with this character. No, I hate it, but it makes him more

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relatable because you know, when, when I was going through this stuff, I hated myself too.

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Do you know what I mean? It kind of makes it more relatable at this point. I don't, I'm so

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conflicted right now. I, I I'm unsure how to feel. This is actually making me spiral. Are you in on

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it? Is this the game? I genuinely, for this episode, I didn't have, you're lucky I didn't have the time,

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but I know some of your friends. Yeah, you do. And so I was going to message them and ask them

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to ask you like the same question, but from different angles. Rob, you know, all my friends

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because I have like six, if you would have text the small group of friends that I have, and they

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started asking me these questions, I might have killed myself. Right. So this is why I didn't,

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because of what I was going to do is I was going to get friends from Control or Critique and a

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couple from the Boardroom Gaming Cafe. That's all my friends. Thank you. Get them to ask you

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what time Telford train station closed. Cause that was just like a standard thing. Like, oh,

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I'm thinking, you know, right. And then the game at the end of the episode, the last question of

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the quiz would be what time does Telford train station close? I'd have flipped my desk. I'd have

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flipped my desk and set myself on fire. I wouldn't know how to handle it. The only reason I didn't

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is cause I realized that like there's such a thing as too far. Yeah. I did never trusted you again.

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The next episode, it would have been the most straight cut. Hello, I'm Ben Groves and I am alone.

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I can trust no one. I don't understand what's going on. And you'd be like, and I'm Ron Buckford.

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And I'd be like, are you? Right. And I feel like it would have, it would have gotten in the way

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of people's ability to sympathize. When I was like, yeah, I've struggled with my mental health and

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they're like, yeah, but you do torture your best mate. You are a puppet master. There we are.

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Yeah. I was trying to think of a replacement and the only thing that came to my mind was more

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swear words. And this is why we're doing a swear job, Ben. It's for our betterment. Yeah. It's for,

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it's for a broader vocabulary. I've already learned three words. Right. Puppet master,

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puppet master, two pastiche. There's three pastiche. This is genuinely making my day.

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Thank you so much for this. This is the best idea. Like honestly, we were dreading it earlier. This

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is the best. Yeah. Yeah. Um, the, my main problem is, well, it was my main problem. The whole show's

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ruined now because all of my notes and now, now my notes are the nonsense because you've switched

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the film around and it makes perfect sense to me. My next thing, my next rant, which is a paragraph

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and a half long rub. Thanks for that. It's only took like 40 minutes to write the next rant that

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I'm now not going to be able to make any sense of is, but who am I supposed to sympathize with?

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Like I don't like the film because the character is an absolute tosser. Toss is not a swear word.

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It's a person who throws things. He tosses. Yes, he does. He tosses people out like garbage. And if

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you've watched the game, you'll know that he tosses at least one book. Right. Exactly. And at least

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one lady. She injured herself in that, in that throw. Really? Yeah. So, so she jumped from the

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thing into the trash can and took, got a very severe injury. She was wearing no underwear.

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At the time. Well, she fractured a bone in her foot. Wow. And it wasn't a prop dumpster either.

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It was a real dumpster and it had real rats in it. Why was it? Okay. If you're shooting it for a film,

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move the camera a bit closer. Maybe don't do it from 30 feet in the air. Right. But maybe it's a

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game then. Don't do this to me. Cause no, no, yeah, no, yeah, he is. He is, he is a cock,

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but I will say this. Fox not a swear word. It's a, it's a male chicken. What I find fascinating

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about your and my reaction to this film is how and why things date. So there's the obvious ones,

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right? Where you'll look at say a 1950s romance film. Yeah. Well, like the Wolfman, like 1930s,

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40s universal monsters. Yeah. Uh, where his behavior with women is just predatory. Yes.

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It's all, and you think as a, as a contemporary view, you're like, Oh, this is why he's the Wolfman.

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No, it's just an also ran. It's just, yeah, that's how men were with women. They used to,

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men used to buy telescopes to perv on women. And that was completely fine guys. That was a thing.

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That was just like, Oh, and we, everyone just carried on living their lives. What a quirky guy.

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He's just got four telescopes pointed at four different women's windows. The Wolfman,

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the Wolfman pre-bite sees a woman from across the town working in a shop that he thinks pretty.

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So just turns up at her work every day until eventually he gets to kiss her. I think this is

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why we're single force of pestering. I mean, we can't afford telescopes and B we're just not that,

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just not that determined. It's cool. Yeah. We're not willing to be predators.

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I think this film has a similar, similar issue, right? In that that's a T-shirt right there in it.

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We're not willing to be predators. Single taken, not willing to be a predator.

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I think this has a similar issue. And I think it's interesting. It's only now that we've sat

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down to watch it and both hated the protagonist that I've kind of realised how much of a sea

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change in society it was, but we never used to hate investment bankers. No, this is pre the crash of

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2008. This isn't the big, it's called the nineties boom, the 1990s economic boom, which was the

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largest economic expansion that happened in the West until 2019. Clinton's economic policies meant

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huge increase in wealth, a decrease in inequality. Everybody was loving Wall Street. I don't think

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the casting of Michael Douglas in, uh, in this movie is an accident seeing that he played Gordon

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Gecko in Wall Street. Greed is good. We're in an era of the nineties thriller, right? So you've got

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Harrison Ford running, running around asking for his family back. You've got Richard Gere apparently

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being watchable. Yeah. A Richard Gere is phenomenal. Don't ever say a bad word about him again. He's

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fantastic. Uh, if by any chance he ever hears this adopt me immediately. He's got one face, Ben,

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and it's the George Clooney look down, smile to oneself with a little giggle and then look up.

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Works on me every time. Every time, every time I see that happen. Goosh. Right. Goosh. But that's

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the era of thriller we were living in. We're living in kiss the girls. We're living in that

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kind of nineties seven for God's sake. It was a deconstruction of this genre. And I think this

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is Fincher taking it so far. It breaks. It's gone full circle. This is him. This is, this is him

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doing psycho Billy where we had rock and roll. Let's just make it so fast and so outrageous and

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so silly that it's not that anymore. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'm with it. And I think, I think perversely

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we are expected, uh, and it is understood that we're going to sympathize with his character.

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And what this film was doing at its time was presenting the very new idea that maybe this

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guy wasn't someone you wanted to look up to. That was new information. Okay. That whole thing of

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like, yeah, he's got it all, but you weren't expecting this. He's lonely and unfulfilled.

381
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:42,960
And people were like, Oh my God. Really? He's just like us, but instead of me crying into an

382
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:49,760
empty bowl of porridge, he cries in a Mercedes Benz. Exactly that surrounded by lavish hookers

383
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:55,440
and champagne. I think the film is teaching us information that is now basic film, basic,

384
00:32:55,440 --> 00:33:00,640
basic social literacy. Okay. So looking at it through that lens, it does, it does give it a

385
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:07,920
slightly different, a slightly different tinge of color that I was unaware was there. Still,

386
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:12,240
it still sucks to be a contemporary viewer and be like, yeah, great. It's yeah. You know,

387
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:16,000
watching it for the first time this time around. I watched it surface value as well. I didn't,

388
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:20,160
I didn't make the allegory that we've just discussed. It was, it was a case of me taking

389
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:25,200
it very literally and trying to digest the story. Yep. Which I don't feel like I did

390
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:31,600
necessarily as well. I have a thought on an allegory that I made that made it palatable for

391
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:40,400
me, but not necessarily true. I'll get to that shortly. I think my main issue was the fact that

392
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,680
it's because he's rich. You just don't like him because he's rich. It's not rich though. It's

393
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:50,000
not rich. It's uber rich. This is like the creme de la creme of the 1%. And it's like, I'm not

394
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,520
going to feel bad. You've got your massive, you've got your massive chip on your shoulder because

395
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:58,240
that's not the person anymore. Right. I don't, I do have a chip on my shoulder, but it's not for

396
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:02,480
that reason. Right. And I used to have one too. Like I went to a grammar school man. I was the

397
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:07,120
poor kid at the grammar school. It was like, oh, where did you summer? And me being like my mum's

398
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:12,240
house where I live. If there wasn't a bomb threat at our school, at least once a month, it was

399
00:34:12,240 --> 00:34:18,160
because the one guy that would always call in bomb threats was off for that month. Like the fire

400
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:23,040
brigade used to, the amount of times we'd get like evacuated from school, the first bomb threat,

401
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:29,280
we were miles away. We were miles away. By the sixth or seventh that year, we were in a building

402
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:34,880
that was seven feet away. All looking at the windows, watching the firemen climb to the roof.

403
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,400
That was it. That was the experience. Let's just keep the walk show. Everyone was like,

404
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:42,720
we're not going all the way over there. We know who it is. We know what's going on. The fire

405
00:34:42,720 --> 00:34:45,920
brigade are here. They're already bored. They're ticking it off as they're going along. They're

406
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:51,440
showing up with the forms pre-filled out now. Do you know what I mean? But that's the thing. So

407
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:56,880
my thing is like, I don't, I don't have a chip on my shoulder per se because the Uber rich and

408
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:01,280
like the rich, I feel like there's a difference between rich and wealthy. Right. And I don't have

409
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:07,520
a chip on my shoulder for wealth because I feel like I've met a lot of wealthy people in my life

410
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:12,800
that have made my life better just for knowing them. An old boss that I used to work for was,

411
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:18,000
and it still is to this day, an incredible source of inspiration. I won't mention names or anything.

412
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:24,640
Right, right, right. An incredible source of inspiration. He like finished university

413
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:29,120
with a degree and had like a little, a little egg that he'd been building up every few years. And

414
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:33,920
he used that to start a business. Okay. And what he did with that business is he was like, right,

415
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,520
I don't know as much as I could do about this business. And rather than punish himself for

416
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:43,360
that is, is he found other people who knew it inside and out and went, I've got some money.

417
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:49,840
Worked together. Yep. And everyone was like, sure. Okay. And then he started making more money.

418
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:54,560
And then what he did with that money was invest it in the people. And the way that he did it is it

419
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,000
was incredible. He wasn't showy. He wasn't this, that, and the family was a huge thing to him.

420
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:02,960
That I know you get these are weird companies that like, we're a family here. Oh yeah. It's

421
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,560
always exploitation. Yeah. It's always exploitation. Right. This guy used to have us around to his

422
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,800
house and he'd spend three or four hours cooking stuff on a barbecue just to make sure that everyone

423
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:16,320
was fed and you know, feeling good. And then would genuinely listen to your insights and act on them.

424
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,720
Right. So he's reinvesting in the people that he's invested in. He's doing, he's doing it right.

425
00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:25,360
Right. His wealth, his family's big. He's not giving back running around in Ferraris and all

426
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,560
this stuff. He's got a Tesla, he's got a nice house, but that's it. Everything else is invested

427
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:33,440
in places that it needs to be invested. And it's put to good and he's a better person for it because

428
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:38,640
you can see how much of a different it makes to his life, which positively impacts everyone around

429
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,800
him. And I'm like, dude, this is, it made me hate him a little bit more because I was like, oh, okay.

430
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:47,840
So you're a multi multi hundred millionaire, but also you're incredibly nice. Your personality is

431
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:53,600
fantastic. And you've got all the correct morals. Whoop dee doo. Fantastic. Well done. Okay. Yeah.

432
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:58,960
But he was incredible. My problem with this film is that the character isn't wealthy. He's rich.

433
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:05,600
He's an absolute cock to everyone that he comes into contact with. He destroys a man's life in

434
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:10,560
front of his family and then walks away like nothing. Like it's nothing. Just water off a

435
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,320
duck's back. Yeah. He's being Mr. Rootsless. He's being Mr. Efficient. He's being business's

436
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:19,040
business. Why do I care about your sub story if it's affecting my profits for the shareholders?

437
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:26,800
Okay. So you can cripple a man's entire livelihood for like a stock. All right. Fine. You do that,

438
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,320
but that doesn't make me ever want to be like, aw, are you a bit sad?

439
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:34,720
Okay. I mean, there's some extenuating factors there in that, you know, the guy he's crippling,

440
00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:39,680
he's basically buying the company out. So he's leaving him millions of pounds better off. He's

441
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:44,800
just stopping the business that the man does because the business is failing. I think what

442
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:51,600
I find interesting though with the chip on your shoulder is the sentence that this film is,

443
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:56,960
is I'm rich, but I'm not happy. Right? Right. I'm not happy. And you see the resources that

444
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:02,160
this man has and you go, well, I don't have those resources. And if I had those resources,

445
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:07,440
here's what I would do with it. I'd build a company. I'd reinvest. That would make me happy.

446
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:14,160
Sure. And the assumption there is that they haven't tried that and they haven't found out already

447
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:18,640
that that doesn't make them happy either. A thousand percent. The guy's already employing

448
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:24,320
people. It's not shown that he's actively doing this out of the other, but he's got the shareholders,

449
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:28,160
got this. I find the interesting thing about the chip on the shoulder about the ultra rich

450
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:36,320
is I look at someone who I, I hate Elon Musk with a passion, but when I look at that man and I go,

451
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:42,640
he's doing what he feels is necessary to feel like he's all right, like he's happy.

452
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:48,400
And he's just gone super wrong about how he's going to get that. But that doesn't invalidate

453
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:53,680
the fact that the start of the sentence is I'm not happy. Yeah. A thousand percent. And on a

454
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:59,040
human level, you have to go thousand percent. I do. I can disagree about how you're re spending

455
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:03,680
your resources. This, that or the other, but you're still a human being. Right. I agree with you

456
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:10,800
wholeheartedly. Like Vladimir Putin, an unequivocal villain of the fucking this took a sharp, but

457
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:16,320
let's continue. Right. Vladimir Putin from my perspective, a disgusting human being,

458
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:22,320
but I don't want him. I want him to be able to find a way of being all right. Cause if he's

459
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:28,720
all right, he'll probably stop trying to invade people. Right. Maybe, maybe I don't, I don't feel

460
00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:36,800
like happy well, people go, I'm going to invade a country. I don't feel that happy. Well, people go,

461
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:43,840
I'm going to buy Twitter and turn it into a race website. I was trying to think of examples of

462
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,600
someone that's invaded the country and just been super happy about it. Like how would that even

463
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:54,160
look? I mean, boys, guess what I've just done. Have you seen the news? Italy's at war. Yeah.

464
00:39:55,680 --> 00:40:02,960
Right. Guess what I just did. Bud, bud, I need to ask you one question. Where's our army?

465
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:08,560
Right. This is, this is the funny one. You ready for this one? Italy. It's in Italy.

466
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:14,400
Right. Exactly. Why'd you do that? Don't know. But you don't see the Dalai Lama being like,

467
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,320
mate, do you know what I need to do? I need to fire some people.

468
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:23,680
Do you know what I need to do? I need to hold freak parties with hundreds of bottles of lube

469
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:32,160
in my mansion. Maybe, maybe I mean, I feel like, I feel like these people having a reset,

470
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:37,520
yeah. Michael Douglas in this film having a reset and going, oh, I was going a little bit mad there,

471
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:42,400
wasn't I? That's a good thing. Right. And just cause he started from a position of being a tosser,

472
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:46,880
doesn't mean that him not being a tosser anymore is a bad thing. I'm not saying it's a bad thing.

473
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:52,000
It's just, it's hard to relate to. It's really hard to relate to. But it feels, it feels like

474
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:58,560
you would rather have him stay unhappy and stay hurting people because you'd resent him being

475
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:04,560
happy if he changed. Absolutely not. I'm super happy that he's changing and he's learning how to,

476
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:12,080
you know, cherish his loved ones and be a slightly better person. Very slightly better person. The,

477
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:18,720
the exchange between him and the guy's life that he destroyed by literally just ending his career

478
00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:23,680
in front of his family. Um, even that's horrible to watch when they're, when they're nice to each

479
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:28,960
other and it's like, Oh, right. It's just, I'm glad that he did it. The only thing that bothers me

480
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:37,680
is that because he's uber rich, it's everyone else's problem. And it's, I just didn't care.

481
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:44,080
Like I, Rob, I, I'm so invested in you and I love you with all of my heart for you to do better.

482
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:48,640
Likewise. You could, you could be invading Italy right now. And I would be like, buddy, I'm with

483
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:53,120
you, but I need you to be doing better right now. And I'm invested in it because I love you. Right.

484
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:57,520
Yeah. My worst enemy invades Italy and it's like, I'm just trying to be better. I'm like,

485
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:03,520
couldn't care less. Still invaded Italy. No, I mean, I'm not there for it because I don't care

486
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:09,040
about them in the slightest. And it's the, it's this disconnect that it has where it puts me

487
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:15,200
in such a different realm of existence, where I just, it's like, I'm looking at it thrice removed

488
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:21,920
going, there is nothing here for me to latch on. Nothing. There's the disconnect of the budget.

489
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,920
The main character is living on. There's the disconnect of the style of cinema that was

490
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,680
prevalent in the nineties. There's the disconnect of the fact it's Michael Douglas and I've never

491
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:34,320
liked that guy particularly as an actor. Cause I've just never really bonded with him. He's got an

492
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:38,160
odd face. I quite like his odd face. This is the film that it hurt me a little bit. Cause I was

493
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:42,240
like, I quite like this guy, Wall Street. That was funny. You know what I mean? Right. But I,

494
00:42:42,240 --> 00:42:46,240
I got to the point I was like, why did Fincher? Cause Fincher doesn't write his own scripts. He

495
00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:51,680
picks them. And I looked into it and this was the film that Fincher was going to make before

496
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:58,160
he made seven. He was offered this first. Right. Sure. And in the story of Fincher,

497
00:42:58,720 --> 00:43:03,360
it would be a much shorter series. Yes. If he had, cause I would not have watched seven.

498
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:08,000
Cause he'd have come off the back of alien three. Yeah. And then he'd have done this.

499
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:13,200
And I don't think this would have had anywhere near the success that it did, especially seeing

500
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:19,440
as he rewrote a lot of this script with Andrew Kevin Walker, because originally it was going to

501
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:24,320
be a younger guy playing the Nicholas Van Orton character. Right. That would have made it worse.

502
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:28,880
It was going to be a much lighter tone. And it was going to be like, it wouldn't it be fun

503
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:34,240
if a billionaire could have his thing reset, blah, blah, blah, blah, rather than what I think it is,

504
00:43:34,240 --> 00:43:40,080
which is a kind of social commentary on how the ultra rich are lonely, desperately broken people.

505
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:46,320
And the only way to really fix it is for them to spend the GDP of a small nation by hiring,

506
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:51,120
you know, actors that even simple things, the ending, right? So at the end of this movie,

507
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:58,160
he's had his big fall. He comes out and then he wanders off and he meets the woman who's been

508
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:03,360
lying to him, kind of the other main character in the game and stringing him along through scenario,

509
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:07,600
through scenario, through scenario. She's about four different identities. She's like his handler.

510
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:11,760
And he stops and he's like, Oh, maybe, uh, you and I get a coffee at the airport.

511
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:15,120
Oh, yeah, maybe. And I'm like, Oh, this is gross.

512
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:22,800
No, because he's the ultra millionaire that she's been paid between seven and eight pounds an hour

513
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:31,360
to entertain. But in all fairness to her though, she's shooting a shot. She's like, this is my way

514
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:35,840
out. This is my ticket out of the seven quid, you know what I mean? But then isn't that dystopian

515
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:41,760
in its own sense? Rob, it's horrid. There's an alternate ending, which, which Fincher again

516
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:46,880
was fighting with the studio. Uh, there was an alternate ending where Nicholas leaves the party,

517
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:51,680
declines a cab and then just walks off into the night alone into the city by himself.

518
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:56,960
Okay. Leaving it open as to how he felt about the whole thing. That would have been a far superior.

519
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:00,400
That would have been an amazing ending because that would have left it open to being like,

520
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,720
it's done nothing for me. Now I just have shed loads of trauma that I need to deal with. Right.

521
00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:09,840
And now I need to wander off on my own and live my super lonely, go fix my graffiti mansion for a

522
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:16,560
start. But Fincher himself says he's not proud of this film. I get it. He, he agrees with his wife

523
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:20,880
who produced the film that he shouldn't have made the film. And he said that they couldn't get the

524
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:26,400
third act. And it was my, and I quote, and it was my fault because I thought if you could just keep

525
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:31,360
your foot on the throttle, it would be liberating and funny. Even his wife was like, you should have

526
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:37,040
done this one. This is what I love you. But this is what it's you invade in Italy. I'm your wife

527
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:44,400
in you. Oh my God. Yeah. But here's, here's why I think he did it. Right. I think this is Fincher

528
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:50,240
proving that he can do the thing. He's had the big hit. Yeah. He's had his memento moment. Like

529
00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:55,680
Nolan had memento. It was a little movie. It had a small budget, but it made a huge impact at the

530
00:45:55,680 --> 00:46:00,880
box office. And it was a critical darling. Yep. And Fincher's had seven and now he needs to prove

531
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:06,560
that he can do the thing, make the money and isn't a one trick pony. This is his insomnia.

532
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:11,760
It does strike me as insomnia, right? Just not nowhere near as good. You enjoyed insomnia a

533
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:17,120
lot more than I really did. Yeah. It got you for in some way. And I'm so jealous. I don't know why.

534
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:21,200
Right. I don't know why. I was hoping that this would be the same with this first time watching

535
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:26,320
it for the show, desperately trying to impress Rob. Right. End of it being so like, wow, maybe

536
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:32,640
I'm all wrong about Nolan. No, that was just left seething at Fincher. But I think what this film

537
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:39,680
serves is it turned a profit. It had an actor from a previous generation, like say Al Pacino or

538
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:46,960
Michael Douglas. And the film is almost so barely there and so cliche written that the only thing

539
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:54,320
left that's different that you haven't seen before is the director's style. Yeah. No, it's a vacuum

540
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:58,960
in which the directorial style is the only thing left to comment on and go, oh, that's kind of

541
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:04,000
interesting. Okay. I get where you're coming from. And I agree with you wholeheartedly. Like the

542
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:08,960
way that the film shot and the way the film's presented is fantastic. And it's almost like,

543
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:15,520
I can imagine way back when, like obviously in the nineties, when Nolan and Fincher are doing these

544
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:20,000
sorts of films at roughly the same times, they're dropping similar things, Left Right, they've got

545
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:26,160
to be in some sort of like creative, whose is bigger contest. You know what I mean? Yeah. Right.

546
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:33,120
That was so hard to say without swearing. After watching the film and the rage bubble dissipated

547
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:38,240
for a little bit. And I was like, even when they're sad, they've got to make the whole world revolve

548
00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:41,920
around them. You know what I mean? Yeah. Every single worker has paid an hourly wage to make

549
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:46,080
their life, to make them learn a life lesson. Between seven and eight pounds. That's what I mean.

550
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:52,160
Of course that's how the film plays out. Sure. Why not? I actually started sitting and thinking

551
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:57,120
about it and I liked that it was, I liked that it's one of these films where you can switch out the

552
00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:02,880
meaning almost. Yeah. So instead of an uber rich person, you know, being desperately lonely and a

553
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:06,720
bit of a broken person struggling with, you know, being the same age as a father when he commits

554
00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:14,160
suicide, what about if it was an allegory for addiction? And instead of having everyone around

555
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:23,440
you paid to act out a big scenario to help you learn your lesson, you have negatively impacted

556
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:28,480
such a large number of people that now it's inescapable that you have to do something about

557
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:34,800
the crutch that you have. Right. So a hundred percent, even if you're earning the mega millions,

558
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:38,720
but you're destroying the lives of everyone around you, it's going to be a point where it hits you

559
00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:44,240
in the feels and you're going to go, am I, is this it? Am I on the right one? So I was looking at it

560
00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:49,440
like addiction and obviously like I tried to relate it to my scenario a few years ago where

561
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:57,520
it's, you get to a point where you're like, I don't physically think I can function as a basic human

562
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:03,840
being anymore. Right. Yeah. It's not, I can't go out and work because a 10 hour shift is longer

563
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:12,480
than my need for drugs. I got to the point where I was measuring how deserved or I got to a point

564
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:19,760
where I was measuring how much drugs and drink I could consume in an evening based on how much work

565
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:27,760
I'd done. If I'd traveled, let's say from the West Midlands to the Scottish border and back in a day,

566
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:34,240
I'm like, I've earned at least six beers. That's six beers in a couple of bumps. You know what I

567
00:49:34,240 --> 00:49:39,920
mean? But if I do like a jaunt South all the way up and I'm gone for 12 hours and I get back, you

568
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:46,240
know, 13, 14 hours later, I've hit five meetings. I've done some wicked deals. I'm like, you know

569
00:49:46,240 --> 00:49:50,080
what? That's a couple of lines. That's a lion, a couple of lines and it's half a bottle of whiskey.

570
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:54,560
That's how I was measuring my little reward at the end of the day for doing the bog standard

571
00:49:54,560 --> 00:50:01,120
stuff at work. Trying to rationalize and ration your addiction. That's all it was. It was horrendous.

572
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:06,560
So the first two acts of this film are very much that, right? Right up until the point where he

573
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:12,000
meets his handler at the taxi and she's like, do you want to come and get a coffee at an airport?

574
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:17,840
And he's considering it because it's essentially in my allegory, she's addiction leading him through

575
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:23,120
life, sort of showing him how he's affecting all the lives of the people around him. And at the end

576
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:30,080
of the film, the addiction comes back and is like, you want to go to the airport and rail lines of

577
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:36,240
cocaine off your therapist's back? And it's, you know, I mean, obviously that's not a feasible thing.

578
00:50:36,240 --> 00:50:40,320
It's not recommended. It's a fat 10 out of 10, but it's not recommended. You know what I mean?

579
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:47,600
No. Well, to take your allegory then and to take why I think this is not a film that I enjoy,

580
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:53,520
but one that I think is important in Fincher's catalog. As a film for a man to make,

581
00:50:54,640 --> 00:51:04,800
who is famously addicted to being in control, going, sometimes it's good to let it go.

582
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:11,840
Fincher is famous even at this point in his career, 50 takes, 40 takes, 60 takes. Everything must be

583
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:17,760
perfect. The shot must be lined up perfectly. Everything has to be exactly this way. I will

584
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:22,640
abandon projects three quarters of the way to completion because they're not quite right.

585
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:27,200
And I'll walk away. That's pretty Nicholas Van Orton way of doing things.

586
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:33,440
It is, right. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.

587
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:39,600
You're not going to do this to me because you can't because this is unfair. Right. Because in

588
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:44,240
the seven episodes you were like, I'm going to argue that it's a perfect film based on your

589
00:51:44,240 --> 00:51:50,720
definition. And my definition of a perfect film is the filmmaker living a certain story and then

590
00:51:50,720 --> 00:51:55,600
telling that story because they're the most qualified person to do so. So a man who's addicted

591
00:51:55,600 --> 00:52:01,840
to being in control, being put in a situation where all control is taken from him. Fuck you.

592
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:09,040
He's told what he has to do and how he has to do it. And his choice is either to jump off a building

593
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:13,200
or accept that he needs to change, accept that he needs to change and go with the flow a little

594
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:20,800
bit more. Fuck you, Rob. And that's five. Is that four? Or is that five? That's five.

595
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:28,800
Our RPI inbox. Remember guys that the, the forfeit for five swears in an episode is that you get to

596
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:35,440
send a picture of an owl or a crab to our DMs and social media. So off you go, lads and ladettes.

597
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:44,800
Um, so yeah, no, Bennett is a perfect film. I think it is also a thematic tie in to a lot of

598
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:50,960
the films that Fincher makes in this era, where somebody becomes increasingly isolated because

599
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:58,960
the society around them is unwell. The society that's depicted in seven is unwell to the degree

600
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:05,120
where somebody's driven to do murder. Right. The society in this film is so unwell that even if

601
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:11,120
you've got all the money in the bank, there's still something missing. And it's apparently

602
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:18,880
that sense of isolation and dread is so standardized and normalized that capitalism has

603
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:24,160
created an industry around fixing it. That's a very interesting take. I'd like to, I'd like to

604
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:29,200
tag my little bit onto the end of that and say that the mildly attractive person that's been

605
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:33,360
leading you through the ringers and lie into your face continuously, getting you into the worst

606
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:38,560
situations you have ever been in is probably worth going to the airport for a cup of coffee with.

607
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:42,160
You know what I mean? That's an important lesson that Fincher is trying to teach us here guys.

608
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:46,240
Give them a call, drop them a text. You know what I mean? Do you want to play a game? Yeah,

609
00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:50,960
I'd love to. Yeah, I'd love to. Right. It's a really, really short one this week. Okay.

610
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:57,200
Cause the whole episode is the game, but this is the game. I can't swear anymore.

611
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:02,480
You can't. But no, it's there. The sentiment's there. Did you spot? This is, did you spot?

612
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:09,920
Did you spot the cameo and Spike Jones, the director of films like her three Kings being

613
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:17,360
John Malkovich? I did a couple of Jackass movies. Cause of course. Yeah. Why not? Um, no, I didn't.

614
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:23,040
He is one of the paramedics at the end who brushes the breakaway glass of Michael Douglas's face.

615
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:25,920
Oh, hold on. No, hold on. I'm speaking. I'm thinking of Spike Lee.

616
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,520
That's why I didn't recognize him, but that was Spike Jones.

617
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:36,400
Weirdly Spike Lee did not direct being John Malkovich, possibly the whitest film.

618
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:41,120
This is when you said the films, I was like, I was literally like, are you, are you sure?

619
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:47,920
You sure? Did you spot Michael Massey who placed Funboy in the crow?

620
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:58,000
I feel no, no, I didn't. Sorry. I saw. No, it doesn't matter. No, I didn't. Uh, well,

621
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:06,240
this is a bit tasteless because, uh, Michael Massey plays one of the paramedics who attends

622
00:55:06,240 --> 00:55:10,960
to Nicholas van Orton after he thinks he's accidentally shot someone.

623
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:20,480
Fincher might be a super villain. One of the funniest super villains that's ever existed.

624
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:27,360
And this is in 1997 as well. Do you think that there was ever a point where Michael Massey was

625
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:36,240
like, is this the game? Am I in the game? Has he been filming me this entire time? I knew my,

626
00:55:36,240 --> 00:55:41,840
I knew my postman was weird yesterday. Okay. You ready for the last one? Yeah.

627
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:54,080
Did you spot Mario? Mario? Mario. Like the super Mario? Like super Mario, Mario of Mario Brothers,

628
00:55:54,080 --> 00:56:00,880
the plumber, the film Mario Brothers or the video game? No. Did you spot the actor who plays

629
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:12,080
Mario? Not, not Bob Hoskins, not Chris Pratt, the real Mario, the real Mario, the real Mario.

630
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:18,000
Bob Hoskins is the real Mario. No, he's not. Who's the real Mario? When you played N64,

631
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:25,920
Super Mario 64, you were listening to the voice of Charles Martinet and Charles Martinet plays

632
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:38,720
Nicholas van Orton's father in this film. He was the voice of Mario from the year 1992 until 2023.

633
00:56:38,720 --> 00:56:45,520
That's incredible. That's actually incredible. What a CV to have. So what have you done as an actor?

634
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:51,600
Well, I was in a David Fincher film, The Game, where I killed myself from jumping off a roof.

635
00:56:51,600 --> 00:57:00,720
My child found me and it ruined his life forever. So next time you watch this dark, brooding,

636
00:57:00,720 --> 00:57:06,000
super intense psychological thriller, that's also nonsense and ridiculous not to be taken seriously

637
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:10,000
at all. I won't be, but okay. In the opening credits, you can just go, it's a me.

638
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:15,840
All right. I might watch it just for that. And then I'll never watch it again. Ben,

639
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:22,320
I have to know what are you rating? David Fincher's 1997 film, The Game.

640
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:28,160
It's two hours and 10 minutes. That will never get back. It's two hours and 10 minutes. It's a

641
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:36,400
punishing watch. It's a slow watch. I have a lot of trust issues. So it's a very exhausting watch

642
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:43,680
because I feel like I'm 1000% in fight or flight for the entire two hours. But after our chat today,

643
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:49,200
you asked me this yesterday, it would have been six and all of the points would have been for the

644
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:54,080
actual filmmaking itself. Cause the story lets it down massively. It would have been a six,

645
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:59,280
but now it has to be a 10 because it is a perfect film. It's not my favorite perfect film,

646
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:06,560
but by my definition, it is a perfect film. Yeah. Because your definition is a, it's a storyteller

647
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:11,600
who is most qualified to tell the story that they're telling, putting it to film. And I cannot,

648
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:18,080
I cannot fault that in the slightest. It's an incredible feat doing what he's doing. It's also,

649
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:22,000
when you've pointed it, when you've painted it in a way where it's, it's Fincher looking at how he

650
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:27,200
needs to loosen up and let go control a little bit. It's a very vulnerable film. Right. Um,

651
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:30,800
might be a little bit overinflated on how much is in his bank. You know what I mean? Yeah. You know,

652
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:38,560
I'm pretty in control, but I'm also super rich. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna, I'm gonna rate it a

653
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:44,400
four. Okay. And, and it's because it, no, it's no, I'm not going to rate it a five. I'm exactly on

654
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:49,200
the fence. It's, it's a beautiful film. It's incredibly well put together. It's incredibly

655
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:59,120
shot. Everything about it is incredible except the plot, which is so terribly paced and dull

656
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:06,320
and nonsensical that I struggled to enjoy all the other stuff. Right. Okay. I really do know. Uh,

657
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:10,160
you've got time for comment corner. I've got a fantastic one this week. Hit me with it, man.

658
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:14,480
I'm down for it. So we got, um, we got a story. We've got story time in comment corner from an

659
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:22,560
anonymous listener. Um, and they have told us a little story. You ready? Yeah. Hit me. So I was

660
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:27,760
working with someone who knows and has worked with Fridley Scott quite well as work with this

661
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:32,960
director who they were not friends, but I had like with good colleagues. Anyway, okay. This comes

662
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:37,920
from a very good source is what I'm trying to say. Basically there was a major investor for the first

663
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:44,160
gladiator fill and he said, I'll give you all the remaining money on one condition that you take my

664
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:49,840
son on as someone that he gets to see Ridley every day. That's all I want is that he goes on there.

665
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:54,560
He gets his experience in film and he works for them and sees them every day. So they, he gets

666
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:59,840
flown over, um, leave to Malta and he's there and everyone's car. What the fuck are we going to do?

667
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:04,400
I know we'll give them to the ad's the ad's are sucking. I'm all we going to do. And one of them

668
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:10,160
has a bright idea. They go, I know we'll have him do Ridley's breakfast every day. We'll walk up to

669
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:16,560
the car, open the car, get the order and show him to the director's trailer and then bring him his

670
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:22,400
breakfast season every day. So he walks up on the first day, opens the car, opens the car door,

671
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:27,680
Ridley steps out. He goes, good morning Ridley diddly. Ridley Scott would spasms says fire that

672
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:32,400
boy. And the guy was flown back out. And the reason it's my favorite story is who the fuck

673
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:42,960
would call Ridley Scott Ridley diddly. That's exactly you. Um, that's amazing for a start.

674
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:48,080
Also weird, weird little autistic thing kicked in there. There was a Fleetwood Mac want to be

675
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:53,200
with you everywhere playing in the background very distantly. And it was a little sorry.

676
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:57,840
That's an amazing story. If I ever meet Ridley Scott, I'm 1000% calling him Ridley diddly.

677
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:06,080
There's two things that struck me there. One Fleetwood Mac. I know. No. Okay. Uh, number one,

678
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:14,720
if I'd given a substantial chunk of money to a film production and said, give my son a job.

679
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:20,400
Yeah. And he comes back on the first day fired. Yeah. He owes me that money now.

680
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:26,080
I'd be weirdly proud. I'd be like, I'd be like fair play mate. That was, that was faster than

681
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:33,840
I expected. You've outdone yourself there, sir. Right. Also grounded. Right. Right. And the second

682
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:40,640
thing that struck me is there's going to be, God forbid this happens, but if there's a string of

683
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:45,440
allegations on Twitter about Ridley Scott's conduct, there's going to be one guy who's going to be able

684
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:51,120
to say, called it. He's going to get such a payout on that as well. Yeah. I called it on day one of

685
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:58,400
meeting him and then I got fired for calling him out. You know what I mean? I hope it never happens,

686
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:06,240
but if it does, that guy's getting a payday man. Right. That's incredible. I called out P Riddy.

687
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:18,000
P Riddy. P Riddy. Oh man. I hope we never meet him. Cause it's just going to be the worst man.

688
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:22,080
We're so lucky with the people that we've interviewed so far being super cool of us being

689
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:27,520
absolute shit houses. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've, um, I've got one here.

690
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:36,160
It's an email from Jacob Claire. Uh, he has emailed in and said, hello lads been listening and lurking

691
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:42,000
for, this is me quoting. This isn't for the swear jar. All right. Hello lads been listening

692
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:48,160
and lurking for fucking forever, but I just wanted to say that I was your 100th five star review on

693
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:54,640
Spotify and you all deserve a hundred more five star, five star reviews this year. Fun fact,

694
01:02:54,640 --> 01:03:01,040
I live in Toronto, so owls are everywhere because of the OV hose. Oh yeah. That's Kendrick,

695
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:06,480
Drake beef stuff. Oh yeah. I wouldn't have a clue. It's not cool enough to know about. No,

696
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:15,600
no, no. I'm still living in 1980s. Also Fincher is my favorite director. So glad you guys are

697
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:20,880
doing this series. Cheers. Jacob, Jacob, thank you so much for reaching out to us buddy. And thank

698
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:25,520
you so much more for the five star review on Spotify. And I think I do agree with you.

699
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:30,160
We do deserve a hundred more five star reviews this year. We do. So get to it. If you're listening

700
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:35,280
right now on, on Spotify, just pop your phone open, chop a little, you know, five star review

701
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:39,440
on there and then, you know, email us and then give us a little ego stroke that you want. And

702
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:43,920
this could be you. We could be reading out your email right now because Jacob here, absolute

703
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:48,880
legend. And he's surrounded by owls and isn't corrupted by the evil that that must be. You know

704
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:54,240
what I mean? Can you imagine the hellscape of being living in a place where owls are everywhere.

705
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:59,760
Then predators moving flocks. That is sadly all the time that we have for this week. It is,

706
01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:06,560
unfortunately. Join us next week where we are taking another dive into the beauty that is

707
01:04:06,560 --> 01:04:13,520
contemporary cinema. What we're doing. Oh, we do Joker next week. We're doing Joker with Joaquin

708
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:18,720
Phoenix. Yeah. Somebody's got a sequel coming out. Yes they do. And I cannot wait for it. It's going

709
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:23,760
to be amazing. It's going to be amazing. I've heard, I've heard conflicting reviews. I've heard

710
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:27,680
nothing. So keep it to yourself. I'm going into this one blind. I made the mistake with

711
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:32,080
Romulus. I'm going in this one blind. Do it, do it, do it, do it guys. Thank you so much for

712
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:36,720
hanging out with us. We love each and every one of you so very much. No swearing. See that one.

713
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:40,720
No, that was self-controlled. Well done. Well done. Call me Michael Douglas. Cause I have just

714
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:50,400
Nicholas the shit out of myself mate. Six. Mint. We love you so much. We really, really do. Thank

715
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:56,160
you for hanging out with us. Uh, next week, Rob said it's going to be Joker. I didn't realize this.

716
01:04:56,160 --> 01:05:02,480
I need to leave and watch Joker immediately. In the meantime, just before Ben does, he is going

717
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:07,520
to wrap up the thoughts, themes and feelings of this week's film into a little Monday motivational

718
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:10,800
pep talk to thank you for spending an hour of your week with us, especially at the start of the week.

719
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:16,080
It does mean the world. And I'm just going to do what society and arguably this film tells you to

720
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:21,680
do, which is consume. Do you ever feel a little bit sad about how much success you have just

721
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:26,400
layered around your feet? You know, you're, you're, you're a little bit lonely wondering your many

722
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:32,960
hectare lands in downtown San Francisco. And you're thinking, but what really is the point of my life?

723
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:41,360
Is this enough for me? Uh, just bank on your little brother spending an absolute fortune to make the

724
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:48,320
world stand still for your needs because you're so important. Oh, you're a little bit sad. I can't

725
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:53,920
trust anyone. Boo. Fucking who? Yeah. Seven in the swear. John, you know what? Make it eight.

726
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:59,360
Fuck Michael Douglas in this film. Trust no one, but trust everyone. Apparently. I don't know what

727
01:05:59,360 --> 01:06:05,680
this film is. It's a, it's a film. Mate. I feel so much better after this. Same. Also fuck venture.

728
01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:13,920
Nine. This is wrong. This is wrong. We're going to get so many owls, Ben and crabs. Crabs. Um,

729
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:18,320
no, genuinely, man. I feel a lot better. Same. Me too, man. Thank you for this.

730
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:42,800
Oh, I love this. I love you. I love you too, man. I'll uh, I'll chat to you in a bit. Gay.