It's today the day that we start the swear jar.
We need to start the swear jar today bud.
So does it have to be today though?
It has to be today.
It's the start of a new series.
We've done, we've got a rebrand on the way.
I mean, I'm quite tired.
It's very hot for some reason.
And I feel like a swear jar right now is going to be a poor decision.
Okay.
Maybe not a poor decision, just it's going to make it a lot harder.
Yeah.
I'm going to, I'm going to read the penalties now.
If we swear in this episode five times, listeners can send a picture of an owl or a crab on
socials with nothing but a thank you in response.
Amazing.
If there are 10 swears, then we will read a 30 second script written by our discord
to be read out on Insta live with no context.
Okay.
That's dangerous, but okay.
25 swears is a 20 quid donation to charity, 10 or each.
We're both very poor.
That will cripple us.
Yeah.
200 swears, we do the B movie and shut up the podcast.
Start a true crime podcast where you say whatever you like.
If you want to get out your system now, can we, can we start it from the proper intro
where it's like, hello?
Okay.
So if we start from there, mint, okay.
Great.
Hello everyone.
And welcome to the every movie of a podcast.
My name is Ben Groves.
My name is Rob Macfarlane.
Welcome to the show and movie podcast slash mental health check-in for two broken brained
best friends talking around their problems, but not about their problems.
Never.
Whilst laughing at movies.
So in the spirit of that, Ben, given that this is a thinly veiled mental health check-in
before we get to what we're doing very briefly, how are you doing, bud?
I'm doing all right, man.
I'm doing pretty good.
Uh, I watched Ebola syndrome today and that's ruined me mentally for a little while at least.
Yeah.
Um, I mean it's called Ebola syndrome, Ben.
What are you expecting?
A rom-com?
Fun.
I mean, it's not far off.
Tammy and the T-Rex is technically a rom-com.
So you know what I mean?
I mean, so technically it's a switch up, but we don't talk about that.
Well, we do.
We've got a whole episode about it.
Yeah.
It's called the switch and I have it on DVD right here.
New purchase.
Oh God, you really do.
That's disturbing.
How are you buddy?
Yeah, I didn't get the job at the Safari.
Oh man, I'm sorry.
I, well, if I'm honest, I'm kind of relieved.
It would be a pay cut and whilst it would be a pay cut to video animals and make little
social media reels about them.
Yeah.
It would mean, uh, I'd be doing it without savings.
I wasn't quite ready.
Yeah.
I'm relieved.
Well, look, I'm proud of you either way because you took, uh, you, you left your comfort zone.
You took a stab at something.
Yeah.
It didn't work out this time, but you did it.
You took a swing, man.
So I'm proud of you for that.
Yeah.
If you guys have any openings at their businesses and would like a new colleague, uh, get in
touch every movie ever UK at gmail.com and, uh, let me know what you're offering and I'll
consider working with you.
How's that?
I mean, yeah, same.
If you have two positions go in at your business and, uh, no, I, I got, I did step in.
I did stay.
What are we doing this week, bud?
This week, buddy, we are getting into David Fincher.
We are covering every David Fincher movie ever.
And it starts right now.
No, no, it doesn't.
It started.
No, it starts a few weeks ago when we covered every alien franchise movie ever.
And we took a deep dive into a struggle to get his debut feature made with alien three.
Yeah.
Regular listeners will know the absolute mud fight that that was.
If you want the full story and haven't heard that, we thoroughly recommend you go and check
out episode two to one.
It's a damn fine episode and we're proud as hell of it, but not as proud as we're going
to be of this series.
We've got so much to cover in this first episode, including how Fincher survived the critical
and commercial thrashing of his debut feature alien three, how seven kind of owes this entire
existence to a clerical error.
How Fincher flows like water and endures like rock.
Young grasshopper.
That's weirdly Zen.
Uh, the intense detail and intenser are a hardship of making this movie and why this
movie is even more relevant today than it was on its release.
Yeah.
I mean, look, we've covered every Christopher Nolan film ever.
We have that did all right for us to be fair.
That was a, that was a popular series.
So we thought, Hey, maybe a year later we should try that again.
Yeah.
We've, we've had a year of trying other stuff.
That's been nowhere near as popular.
I don't know, man.
Chaplin was a good show.
How dare you, how dare you mention the graveyard, the graveyard of attention that the Chaplin
series brought upon our podcast.
We, I looked at our demographic on Spotify and we have 0.9% of our listeners are over
the age of 60.
And I genuinely wholeheartedly believe that they are here because of Chaplin.
I genuinely thought that we had listeners that might come with us, uh, for some films
that they hadn't considered watching before, but no, no, no, no, no, they're all turncoats.
They all just went, no, not for me, not for me, buddy.
We had a couple of comments.
It's not got sound.
Yeah.
To be fair.
Well, we thought, okay, who else is renowned?
David Fincher, arguably one of the most renowned directors that there are.
So we thought it was time to dive in.
Yeah.
So where's, where Fincher at?
Where Fincher at?
What that Fincher do?
Right.
So after the massive creative letdown of walking off, being fired, there's no getting to details.
He doesn't.
Yeah.
Not succeeding with Alien 3.
He goes back to the mines, music videos and commercials.
Okay.
So we have a video for Bad Girl by Madonna.
Ooh.
He made the video for Love is Strong by the Rolling Stones.
Bunch of stuff from Nike and Levi's.
Yeah.
The Nike commercials are actually quite relevant.
We might do, we should do a video on, I'm not going to commit.
Maybe we do a video on Fincher's commercials and music videos.
I'd really like that.
Imagine how easy that video would be to make.
Hey, do you want to watch this Levi advert?
Yeah, sure.
What do you think of it?
Yeah, it's pretty good.
Publish.
Get it out.
He also tried to make a Blade movie.
What?
Yeah.
What do you mean?
He, who is of the DC universe, developed a draft with David Fincher before Seven for
the Blade movie.
What?
He was maybe developing Seven.
David Escoe said, I remember going to our producer's office.
There was this giant conference table.
This is relevant, very relevant to later.
Okay.
Fincher laid out 40 to 50 books of photography and art with post-it notes inside them and
said, this is the movie.
Wow.
That's, okay.
That's bold.
Right, right, right, right, right.
So after some time in the short form minds, he gets the script for Seven.
And that's a whole thing that we're going to be getting into later.
But the headline is, is that we're in 1995.
OJ Simpson is on trial for the murder of his wife.
Oklahoma has just had the city bombing.
The Bosnian war is responsible for horrific war crimes.
Genuinely upsetting.
And worst of all, Logan Paul is born.
David Fincher is given $30 million to make this film and it made, we'll stick around
for how much it made.
Cause we'll be getting into that later.
You tease.
When did you see this film for the first time, Ben?
I found this film in uni for the first time.
It was, I was in my, let's say elder emo punk phase.
You had more colours in your hair than the current rainbow flag.
It was edgy.
It was spiky.
It was a sweep fringe.
I had like a sweep at the back for some reason.
And it was long.
It was a nice analogue for what you were going to be doing later on this podcast in that
it was every haircut ever just on the same head.
Yeah.
If anything, it just showed that my commitment issues have been for a long, long time.
If one thing stuck with me other than my trauma, it's my commitment issues.
So I found it in uni and it kind of helped ease me into the darker side of cinema.
It sparked a little bit of a love for a darker cinema because I wasn't a huge crime thriller
fan before this film.
I was more sort of like, well, I mean, you knew me back then.
I was more goofy gore.
You know what I mean?
That kind of stuff.
I'd have recommended a film and you go, how many Cullens has it got in it?
Right.
And I'd go, it's got none.
You go, ah, shit.
Yeah.
Kill count.
And if it's less than 10, what are we doing?
Like, why are we wasting time?
Oh, what?
You want to watch rock and roll high school by the Ramones?
Yeah, that's great.
Because you're into the Ramones.
Boring.
So you recommended this and you were like, how many Cullens has it got in it?
And they were like, you're not going to believe this.
Yeah.
Six.
Yeah.
And I was like, that's almost enough.
That's almost enough.
I think it was George that recommended this because I remember him saying that you guys
had seen it at some point and he recommended it to me.
It was either George or Nick.
That's a fascinating bit of insight for only me.
Yeah.
No, that's what it was for.
Like, if it's not you, it was George.
I had so little friends.
I knew five people in uni.
I loved all of you, but honestly, the rest of you is in the bin.
Yeah.
I mean, I could see why.
This is one of my all time favourite films.
So I've loved this since I used to watch it again and again and again as a quite young
teen.
My entire aesthetic was like this and the crow.
So every band I was in, I was like, oh, we should have scratchy writing and like photos
taped and you still ended up in a bowler hat.
It's amazing.
It's amazing to me.
Of course.
Sure.
I really got into the Dresden Dolls around about the uni time and I was like, oh, Cabaret.
You've got me into Dresden Dolls and I will never forgive you for it because they broke
up immediately and I'm like, well, what was the point?
Yeah.
Well, what was the point?
They've got a comeback album coming out this year.
Have they?
Yes.
I am fizzing with excitement.
Oh my God.
So that was the point.
Thank you, buddy.
So my mission this episode is to convince you that according to your formula, this is
a perfect film.
Okay.
Do you care to share your formula?
I will.
The way that I define a perfect film is that the filmmakers are to a degree emulating what
they're living at that moment.
So the Ghostbusters is a great example.
It's a group of friends struggling to get a film made.
They manage to do it and it's a constant battle from every angle.
You see that in the film with the Ghostbusters fighting every which way.
Yes.
It's what makes it, it's what really helps me envelop it.
You like a little bit of a parallel between what's happening in the plot and what's happening
behind the scenes.
And I, I know you love that.
It gets me hard, man.
You like that the story you've been told has been lived by the people telling the story.
Whereas for me, a perfect film is when the amount you change the film by is exactly how
much that film gets worse by.
And my mission this week, Ben, is to prove to you that by your definition or my definition,
this is a perfect film.
Okay.
Shall we break it down?
Let's get into it.
All the people who haven't seen this in a while.
Play the jingle.
Right, slightly different this week.
I have tried to make it as clear and as easy to understand as possible whilst also adding
a little bit of what we're going to be talking about later.
It's like a little overture for the episode.
Okay.
I've written this week's.
Do you want to kick us off?
I would love to, bud.
Seven is set in a bleak rain soaked city, which symbolizes the moral decay and hopelessness
that permeates the film.
Detective Somerset, played by Morgan Freeman, a jaded and weary veteran on the verge of
retirement is partnered with a hotheaded and idealistic Detective Mills, the ever gorgeous
Brad Pitt, who has just transferred into the city.
The oppressive atmosphere of the unnamed city creates a sense of inescapable darkness, underscoring
the film's bleak outlook on human nature.
The detectives are drawn into a series of grotesque murders, each designed to reflect
one of the seven deadly sins.
Gluttony, greed, sloth, lust, pride, envy, and wrath.
John Doe, played by Kevin Spacey, we'll have to talk about him later, the enigmatic
and deeply disturbed actor and also killer, stages these murders as a form of moral judgment
against his victims, who he believes exemplifies society's tolerance of sin.
The killings are meticulously planned and shockingly brutal, forcing Somerset and Mills
to confront the depravity of both their city and humanity.
The central relationship between Somerset and Mills is one of contrast.
Somerset, who has spent years in the harsh environment, has become cynical and introspective,
often questioning whether justice or morality can still exist in a world so corrupted.
Mills, on the other hand, is brash and idealistic, eager to make a difference, but naive about
the depths of evil he is about to encounter.
The revolving dynamic with Somerset's wisdom clashing with Mills' impulsiveness becomes
a core emotional threat as the investigation grows ever more disturbing.
John Doe is not just a killer, but a self-appointed judge, convinced he is delivering divine punishment.
His crimes are meant to expose the flaws he sees in human society, holding up a mirror
to the detectives as much as to the victims.
When he finally surrenders to the police, the tension shifts to psychological warfare.
Doe reveals his elaborate plan, making Mills and Somerset unwilling participants in his
final, horrifying act.
In the shocking final act, John Doe reveals that he himself embodies the sin of envy as
he covets Mills' seemingly perfect life.
He delivers the severed head of Mills' wife, Tracy, played by Gwyneth Paltrow, as a final
blow, provoking Mills into embodying wrath by killing him.
This moment underscores the film's nihilistic themes as Mills succumbs to the very sin Doe
intended him to represent.
The climax is a crushing indictment of the fragility of human morality and the ease with
which people can be manipulated into their own downfall.
The film ends on a note of despair, with Somerset reflecting on the idea that despite everything,
the world is a fine place and worth fighting for, though we can only half believe it.
Wonderful.
Thank you.
There was no spoiler warning there, I feel like there should have been.
That's the entire film.
Yeah, but Ben, this film came out 30 years ago.
Yeah, get over it.
Alright, yeah, sound.
Right?
Come on.
If you've clicked on a podcast about a film that came out 30 years ago and then you hear
a spoiler, that's not on us.
I'm sorry, it's not.
With Romulus and with the Crow remake, we spoil a tag of shit out of those.
Come on.
Quick, most important question for me this week, Ben.
Do you feel that you are Somerset or you are Mills?
This is relevant to a grand point I have later.
Okay.
So, you know, no pressure.
I think I relate to both of them on different levels for different reasons, but I reckon
Somerset.
You reckon you're Somerset?
I reckon I'm Somerset.
I feel like I've lived here for a while.
I'm kind of used to it.
You know, when one of my friends or when someone sort of like is having a rough time, I'm like,
welcome bud, welcome.
Thanks for transferring in.
You know what I mean?
Right, okay, yeah.
You know what I mean?
So, in the film, which is set in a big city, which one of them has lived in for maybe 15
years and the other one's only just got to, and it's probably going to leave pretty immediately.
You think you're the one that's lived there for 15 years?
Not physically.
Right, okay.
Spiritually.
Right, okay.
And you think the one that visits libraries for fun, that's you.
All right, switch out the library for cinemas.
Yeah, all right, yeah, all right.
Now you point it out.
I feel like I don't want it to be too strong an indictment of your read on the matter.
Right, right, right.
I feel like maybe if one of us is the passionate, hot headed, slightly more like-
Pretty.
Younger, pretty, broken one.
I think we'd have a section of our listeners that would say I'm practically black.
Yeah, okay.
Plus Mills loves dogs.
I love dogs.
You know what I mean?
All right, yeah, yeah.
I'm Mills.
It's fine.
I'm fine with it.
I've just moved to the city and I hate it here.
Okay, that just needs to be in the record for later.
Thank you.
Did you know that David Fincher almost didn't direct this?
Like the way that he signed on for this film is mental, right?
I've read some bits about this, but it sounds like you've read more.
So-
Oh yeah, I'm still very much in my research everything within an inch of its life because
I'm desperate to impress Rob.
And you always do.
Yeah, it's my weird hyper focus at the moment, man.
It takes up all of my time.
Perfect.
Keeps you out of trouble.
Yeah, it does.
So Fincher almost didn't direct this.
It was a Jeremiah Chechik, the director of National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation, The
Avengers, the 1998 version with Uma Thurman, Ralph Fiennes and Sean Connery, not the Avengers
Assemble.
I would come home from school and on channel four would be The Avengers, which was a British
show.
Yeah.
But that was my The Avengers.
And then obviously Marvel came along and shat all over my childhood.
Good that it took until Avengers to get there, man.
I mean, they punched my childhood in the face with Fantastic Four.
Do you know what I mean?
Oh, don't, don't.
So anyway, Jeremiah Chechik.
He was attached to direct this, right?
But he was pushing for a rewrite of the ending.
So yeah, cause apparently the ending was too brutal.
It was going to be deemed as like, no, no, no, it's far too extreme.
It's too bleak.
We can't end the film on that.
So he was pushing for different endings.
There was a few that were suggested.
In the box, there was a, there was one of Mill's dogs heads in the box.
Oh, yeah.
Okay.
I've got a bit about that.
Excellent.
Okay.
So the dogs head in the box.
I read that bit.
Good stuff.
In the box was a TV monitor showing Paltrow's character, Tracy, who had been kidnapped,
but was alive and technically rescuable, I guess.
But the one that Chechik was working towards, like actively pushing towards was a scene
that plays out in a burnt out church with the seven deadly sins represented by paintings.
And there was zero heads and zero boxes.
Yeah.
See what I love about the idea of that ending is taking one of the most iconic moments in
cinema and just going, maybe we don't have that.
No, it's mental.
It's mental.
But thankfully Fincher was sent the wrong script.
It's so good.
It's so, it's that, but I knew, and it is so good.
The idea that some points, some poor intern will have just been looking, looking at the
script on their desk going, so if this one's here, which one did I just put in the post?
Oh man, I'm going to get so fired if boss finds out.
I just didn't, didn't tell anyone until the meeting with Fincher took place.
And he was like, Fincher's like, yeah, man, I'll take the job.
So the, the ending with the head in the box, right.
And they're like, no, no.
How do you know about that?
What?
Yeah.
Hold on a sec.
Where's, where's Derek the intern?
Buddy, where are you?
And it's just him moonwalking out of the office going, I don't know what you mean.
Cause I didn't mess this up.
Yes.
So we said he was sent the wrong, wrong draft of the script.
The studio had forced a rewrite, uh, the brutal ending.
Yeah.
Fincher sent the original draft and signed on immediately based on the original draft,
which was incredible.
Uh, Andrew Kevin Walker, the writer of seven said in an interview with the Hollywood reporter,
this is a direct quote.
So if he sounds red, it is Fincher expressed some interest, but in expressing his interest
to them, the producers, he mentioned that there was a head in the box and they were
like, Oh, no, no, no.
We've sent you the wrong draft.
And then they sent him the vastly rewritten Jeremiah Chechik draft, which had a completely
different ending.
And Fincher said, no, I wouldn't be interested in doing that.
Which I love so much.
I love so much.
I know for a fact, I mean, it's ridiculous that once again, David Fincher is fighting
with the studio.
It's ridiculous that he's got, he's been given alien three.
They basically said, you're here as a hired gun and any of your ideas are going to be
shot down.
We want you to make this ridiculous film.
He makes it.
Yeah.
He fights, he ends up back in the mines doing short form videos.
Yeah.
Commercials finally gets another script.
Brilliant.
And then is immediately back there going, Oh, the studio want to do this.
They want to do that.
But the dog head, right?
Yeah.
One of the executives at new line who said that if one of Brad Pitt's dogs had had their
head cut off and put in the box, maybe that would be different.
They had another one.
They're all ridiculous.
They had another one where it's not really Tracy's head.
Doe has killed a woman who looks exactly like Tracy and put her head in the box.
Which then if that happens, you immediately go, well, that's, that just wouldn't happen.
Yeah, of course.
Like you can't.
The only one that I did like, which I think would have worked, although it's a much different
emotional note is that they were going to have Morgan Freeman's character, detective
Somerset shoot John Doe instead of Mills.
Oh, so it would have messed up here.
A, it would have saved Mills career.
B, it would have messed up the whole seven deadly sins murder spree.
Exactly.
Oh, that's kind of dope.
Right.
Yeah.
It's incredible.
And it works on a writing perspective.
It's consistent with the character.
Detective Somerset played by Morgan Freeman is seven days away from retirement.
So this is his last day on the force.
It would have made narrative and sort of emotional sense.
It would have just been the right ending if you wanted a happy ending in a weird way.
Yeah.
And I don't think this film works as well.
If it doesn't have the downer ending.
I don't think this film works at all without the horrifically, horrifically bleak ending.
Yes, exactly.
Like without that, this film is fine.
Right.
And it's probably like a solid six out of 10.
You know what I mean?
He was fortunate in the fact that Fincher was not the only one who was sent the wrong script.
Okay.
Brad Pitt had also been sent the script.
Yes, I love this intern.
Yes.
And then the other thing is that Morgan Freeman signed on after Fincher and Brad Pitt.
And they hilariously, they called Gene Hackman, who was also considered for the role of Somerset.
And they're like, look, do you want to do this?
Because we need an older actor who's going to got a career behind him.
He's going to bring gravitas to the role.
He's like, yeah, very flattered.
Script sounds fantastic.
It's got a lot of night shoots, though.
So I just.
That's fair.
It's not up for it.
That's fair.
I mean, I'm not going to be a director famously in bed by six p.m.
You know what I mean?
Anything if I'm not at the craft table at four thirty for my dinner.
Not signing on me.
Not signing on.
Which to the degree that when David Fincher chatted to Morgan Freeman and was like, would
you want to do this?
Yeah.
Because it has got a lot of night shoots.
Morgan Freeman was like, and?
I love that.
They had they had test screenings with all these different endings.
And they weren't horribly.
Oh, I can imagine horribly.
Brad Pitt mentions he said the movie ends, they flick on the lights and I look at people
and they just kind of slowly get up from their seats and no one's talking.
And then they all just kind of disappear from the screen.
And I remember just looking at Fincher and going, oh, my God, what the fuck did we do?
Now two things that doesn't count for the swear jar, because that was Brad Pitt swearing,
not me.
That's the second one that you said in quote form, by the way.
He quoted Morgan Freeman a moment ago.
I mean, I imagine again, that's Morgan Freeman.
Yeah.
Morgan Freeman.
That's right.
You know, I mean, take it up with his sweater.
The reason the test screenings did so terribly is not because of the ending being awful.
The ending is incredible.
OK, when they sent out the cards for the test screenings, it was would you like to see a
new film starring Morgan Freeman brackets driving Miss Daisy and Brad Pitt brackets
Legends of the Fall.
Jesus Christ.
So the demographic they got were people who were just like they probably see two films
a year.
They were parents.
Oh, they were parents.
They were their kids.
They were like, come on, I'm striving Miss Daisy.
You know this.
To the point where one of the people leaving the test screening said the people that made
this film should be shot.
Amazing.
That's incredible.
Which is incredible because it kind of proves the morality of John Doe.
Oh, this is disgusting.
I can't possibly agree with this.
I think they should do what the killer would do.
Yes.
Well, that's the point of the film.
What are you objecting to then?
You've got the film.
Congrats.
It did exactly what it was meant to do.
Are you annoyed because the villain dies?
Are you annoyed because you got the film?
Right.
What?
I don't understand that.
You clearly agree with the villain.
So what do you find so upsetting?
Whichever way you side, it works out perfectly.
Whichever way you side.
Oh my God.
Seven's kind of genius.
It doesn't.
It takes for literally everyone.
Fan of the killer.
Good for you.
Pulls it off.
Fan of the detectives.
Good for you.
Pulls it off.
Oh my God.
Yo, Andrew Kevin Walker might be a literal genius.
Jesus Christ.
Okay.
I thought that and then I looked at some other stuff he wrote and I was like, maybe not.
He wrote The Killer, which is incredible.
I love The Killer.
No one likes The Killer.
We'll get The Killer.
We are covering every David Fincher in the world.
I enjoy it.
It's one of his, I think it's one of his most clever scripts.
I have a theory as to why you're going to have to wait a few weeks to find out when
we cover The Killer.
But talking about being sent the run scripts and everything.
Not only did Fincher go with the original script, with the original ending and keep
the original screenwriter around, he fought hard to keep them all buddy.
Like he was fighting tooth and nail to get them going, but he wasn't alone.
Fincher had the support of both of the leads, Brad Pitt and Morgan Freeman.
They were both supporting him.
We had Kevin Spacey batting for him.
Not sure how valid that is anymore.
I wouldn't want to brag about that one.
He had the writing team behind him.
He had the cast and crew behind him, but also, and this is my favorite thing that exists
in all of David Fincher law, right?
He had new line president, Michael DeLuca on his side to keep the original everything.
So whenever Fincher was causing trouble with his ideas or had like the lower level executives
stressing about the film, all of his leads would step in to have his back.
The ideas for changing the ending that were coming down the pipeline from the slightly
higher ups, but we're all met with a resounding no thank you from everyone involved in the
film, like making the film.
They also had the president of New Line Cinema go looking down on them going, nah mate, not
happening buddy.
Which not only is it a true testament to how much everyone wholeheartedly believed in this
film, but I think I understand Nolan now, right?
When Nolan saw Alien 3 and was like, I think I've seen the next Rick Liscart, this guy,
this guy's amazing.
I'm a big fan of David Fincher.
Yeah.
Right.
So Fincher to make this film had to run a pincer maneuver on the mid to lower level
execs, right?
So he did the lower pincer with all the cast and crew and he did the higher pincer with
the president of New Line Cinema, right?
So that the execs could go nowhere.
So you're saying David Fincher used a technique from a film that would come out 20 years in
the future?
Yes, he did.
And it was Nolan's fault because Nolan's pincer maneuver to make Tenet influence Seven started,
we don't know when, because that guy went back in time at some point and started this
whole pincer maneuver.
It all bleeds together.
Right.
But I'm staring at the red string in the newspapers right now, bud, and it's all making sense.
All right?
Okay.
So you could, you could take that from it.
I would argue there's a different lesson to be taught by the making of this movie.
I think Fincher is very famous for his headstrong commitment to his creative vision, right?
Yeah.
This is what I'm doing.
If somebody says, well, no, no, no, you know, try doing it this way.
He goes, no, I'm sticking to it.
The number of Fincher projects that are announced and then dropped quietly because he just,
he tries it, doesn't work out and he moves on.
Too many people get involved, starts too many cooks in the kitchen.
He's like, no, I'm out.
This isn't for me.
Sound.
So he's famously very, very stick to his guns.
But I think what this film demonstrates is his amazing ability to adapt.
My question for you, Ben, what does the rain in this film represent?
I think, okay, this didn't come up in my research.
I've done a lot of research into Andrew Kevin Walker and David Fincher, but I mean, because
it's permanently raining in this film.
It's raining in every scene.
I think it's, is it not just sort of like a subtle undertone of how bleak the film's
messages like the theme of the film is very bleak.
The outlook on human nature is very bleak.
It's very dreary.
It's very droll.
I think it's just to mirror that, but visually.
So it really cements it into your, into your psyche.
And that would be, that would be a really fair thing to say.
Thank you.
However, David Fincher says, oh, here we go.
Some bad stuff happened.
It was El Nino and there was an awful lot of rain.
So we ended up just having to make an executive decision.
And I know that there are dorks out there with their YouTube channels going, why does
it have to rain?
It's because we had to put together five days of continuity shooting during El Nino.
You set me up for that so well.
And I hate you for it.
That was perfect.
But that was amazing.
The second thing is that during the foot chase where Brad Pitt playing detective Mills is
chasing John Doe and they, they go across, uh, they, they foot chase across some traffic.
Great scene.
I love that chase by the way.
I love the fact that he's checking every corner.
He's terrified.
He's not just running.
He's like, oh, he's, he's panicking, man.
He is panicking.
The fear in his eyes is like, he's wired.
You know what I mean?
He's right too.
He should have maybe been a little bit more cautious.
He should have been as cautious as the character.
Okay.
Because whilst climbing over cars, his feet slipped.
He put his hand down and put his arm through the windshield of a car.
Wow.
Okay.
The cut was deep enough to expose bone and tendons.
So the cast that the character's arm is in.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
Mills is arms in a cast for like half the film.
That's Brad Pitt's actual cast.
And because the film was shot out of sequence, they have to hide it through so many shots.
Oh my God.
When they're sat in offices chatting, Brad does a lot with his left hand, sat on a chair.
He picks up things with his left hand.
Like the phone.
My wife wants to talk to you when he gets into his new office.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
Is that because he's got a cast on?
Yes.
Shut the front door.
Right.
It's so hard not to swear.
I hate this.
Yeah.
We're trying.
So wholeheartedly.
I hate that Fincher will fight for the things that he knows he can get.
Right.
Okay.
But the things he can't control, he will adapt to and make themes.
The rain does absolutely work as a representation of the bleakness in the city.
Thanks.
But it wasn't put in there because of that.
No.
It was made into that.
Right.
Okay.
Mills is sort of cavalier sitting around doing everything with one hand comes across as laziness
and comes across as kind of pigheadedness.
You know?
There's like a laid back casual confidence.
Like he knows what he's doing.
He doesn't need to get all worked up about it.
It's adapting and turning those things into part of the film.
Right.
And I think it demonstrates Fincher's adaptability.
Although he's famous for not being adaptable, I think he is.
I think he just is when he has to be.
Well, that's, I mean, that is incredible.
I've got a little bit here from Andrew Kevin Walker about what it was like to meet Fincher.
And like when he was signing onto the film, they sat down for a quick meeting, you know,
let's figure out the details, how we're going to do it, what direction we're going in.
And Andrew Kevin Walker went to meet Fincher shortly after he'd signed on to do the original
script.
Due to his experience with directors like Chechik, however, he took like a notepad ready
to take down all of the rewrite notes and okay, so I need to go work on this.
I need to work on this.
Fincher immediately sat down and was like, put that away.
Put that away.
And Walker describes Fincher as one of the rare people who was respectful of every piece
of material that comes across his purview.
Oh, that's nice.
Right?
So he told him to put the book away.
There's no rewrites.
We're, we're, we're figuring this out together.
It's me and you, buddy.
Let's go.
You, you, you're the writer.
Fill me in, which is an incredible way to go about writing a film or the incredible
way to go about making a film.
Yes, incredible.
Walker then went on to describe his experience with write in and rewrite in seven by saying
as a writer, when you come on a project and you don't see eye to eye with the director,
you have to make a choice whether you're going to stick around and rewrite stuff or perhaps
feel like you are ruining your own material.
That said, had I told Jeremiah Chechik during the process of rewriting seven, you know what?
I don't really agree with getting rid of this stuff and changing the ending and setting
it a kind of burnt out church and getting rid of the head in the box, et cetera.
So I quit.
If I had done that, I wouldn't have been around for the happenstance luck, fate of Fincher
receiving the wrong script.
He might have gotten my script, but it would have been at least one, maybe several writers
down the line and he probably would have proceeded with one of those other writers instead.
Ooh, which if you think about it, it's a double edge sword because he's half saying, yeah,
suck it up, grit your teeth, get on with it because you don't know what's around the corner.
Yeah.
But then he's also saying be all right with compromising your work because David Fincher
might be sitting on a wrong script somewhere.
You know what I mean?
He kind of won the lottery.
He's like, he's like a lottery winner being so like, yeah, man, you just got to be in
it to win it.
It's like, yeah, of course you do.
This is the number one reason I hate listening to career advice from successful people.
It's the worst.
Because they never, they never sit down and just go, I got incredibly lucky.
It's always all you've got to do is believe in yourself and keep doing what you're doing
and it will magically happen.
I'm like, no, fuck.
Buddy.
No, buddy.
It magically happened for you because you were in the right place at the right time
with the right resources to capitalize on that opportunity.
We're not asking, we're not asking how you won the lottery.
We're asking how do we earn money when we don't have the right to buy a lottery ticket?
Exactly.
It's literally, it's those guys on social media and stuff being so like, yeah, so I'm
an entrepreneur.
I wake up at 4 a.m. and I do three hours of yoga in 20 minutes.
I start three businesses and I sell two of them by 11 and then it's a quick pyramid scream
just along to the stock markets.
Make a quick five mil and I'm back in bed by 3 p.m.
Where are my hookers and champagne?
I made my first mil with a small five mil loan from my dad.
That's exactly it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The quickest way to make a million is to just borrow five million.
Yeah, great, mate.
And then spend four of it on yourself.
Great.
Good job, bud.
Impressive, mate.
Impressive.
Oh, speaking of impressive.
Go on.
I've seen a lot of books in this movie.
There are.
And I know I'm Somerset, you're Mills.
Oh, yeah.
You weren't keeping your eye on the books.
Dude, when Mills buys all the weird little shortcut books, I was like, smart, smart,
buddy.
Yeah, exactly.
Because you're Mills.
You get the same amount done.
You just do it a different way.
Yeah.
You take a 400 year old book that's 300 pages long, you condense it into a modernized version
that's 11 pages long with a colouring sheet at the end.
That makes more sense to me.
Of course it does.
And what's the most impressive book in this?
I don't know.
What are the most impressive books?
Chauncey.
There's Dante's Peak.
There's.
I love that so far.
Yeah.
You're zero out of two.
Yeah, I'm trying.
I'm trying.
OK, cool.
I paid no attention to the books.
There's.
Oh, come on.
There's one guy who writes some pretty impressive books in this.
What do you mean?
I've just named all two.
The notebooks.
Oh, oh, that's a.
I hate.
Right.
A, you've taken away my ability to swear so I can't tell you to go, you know, I mean,
right.
Yeah.
I also.
Right.
Now I'm getting set up for traps because you saw like this dyslexic Beland.
Wait, is Beland a swear word?
It is now.
Is it?
So here is my grandpa.
He's one of my grand points, right?
I think John Doe in this movie is is a right is a real parallel for Fincher's process.
OK.
Fincher was so meticulous with the scene featuring John Doe's notebooks.
He had his crew fill hundreds of notebooks with detailed handwritten ramblings because
he believed it would.
Oh, I think I saw something about this.
Yeah, it was two months and 2000 notebooks that were handwritten by fifteen thousand
dollars.
Oh, my God.
By designers Clive Pearcy and John Sable.
They would go to old stationery shops and go to old warehouses, they would buy scotch
tape sellotape that was 50 years old.
Oh, like yellowing old.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They baked the books that each book was individually baked.
There was a photographer specifically put on making the photos that John Doe took.
So she used commercial cameras that were available in thrift shops and she took them like an
old land camera, there was a black and white instant Polaroid.
OK.
And she would damage the lenses and develop the shots by like intentionally allowing light
leaks in because she wanted to make the sense of the fact that the crime scene photos were
professional and the exposure was right.
That's right.
Yeah, his work because he's not a professional photographer.
That is mind blowing.
Right.
That is mind blowing that they went into that much detail.
An insane amount of detail and that that kind of amount of detail shot with the eye of Darius
Conjie.
Now, Darius Conjie is a very famous cinematographer and he's done all sorts of stuff, probably
more responsible for the look of this film than anyone.
OK.
We've covered one of his films already.
He came up with Jean-Pierre Junet, who directed Amélie, City of Lost Children, Delica Tassin.
Alien Resurrection.
Alien Resurrection, which was shot by Darius Conjie.
Think of the look of Alien Resurrection.
Looks amazing.
And the look of this film.
Oh, definitely.
There's a lot of crossover.
Yeah.
My favourite bit of Seven is when Glenn Danzig is playing basketball in the rain.
So I'd miss remembered.
We we did an interview recently, which we're going to tell you more about in a minute.
But yeah, I'd miss remembered him as doing Seven with Venture and then going on to shoot
Alien Resurrection.
I'll show you the other way around.
If I list some of the films that this man has made.
OK.
And just think of the beauty of them.
The Beach.
Oh, great film.
Panic Room.
Oh, is that Jodie Foster?
That's Jodie Foster and David Fincher.
Oh yeah, of course.
Okja.
About the Korean movie.
Shot by Darius Conjie.
That's a beautiful film and it's a hilarious insight into what Koreans think Americans
are.
Amur, which is the old the old people with dementia, the love story between two.
Oh, I can never watch that one again.
Yeah.
Uncut Gems.
Great film.
Right.
Oh my God.
And and I hate this.
I cannot tell you how much I hate this.
The video for Boiler by Limp Bizkit.
Hold on one sec.
I swear to God, Ben, I hate Limp Bizkit so much, but that video is beautiful.
It's too beautiful for Bizkit, mate.
No, it's not.
I don't know exactly which one you're about.
I just need to I just need to double check real quick.
It's the one where the orb comes out of the woman's head.
Oh, I love this one.
Even the thumbnail for it is like a gorgeous shot of Fred Durst.
Oh my God.
Right.
Oh, I'm so into this.
I'm back in it for the nookie.
You know, I mean, oh, disgusting.
I hate that band.
I know I love the guitarist.
What I hate about Limp Bizkit is they're an incredible band ruined by a vocalist who turned
up for the wrong audition.
If you talk about someone being sent the wrong script, Fred Durst has no idea what the band
are doing.
But that's the best thing about Limp Bizkit.
It's the best thing about Limp Bizkit because it's like it's like a very technically incredibly
well done song.
And then just him going, I did it for the nookie.
I did it for the nookie.
I might break your fucking face tonight.
That was a quote.
That's a quote.
Fred Durst swearing.
Not me.
That was a quote.
Doesn't count.
Oh, I got it out my system.
You're wrong, by the way.
I wrong footed you.
The notebooks are not the most impressive books.
You know when Somerset goes to the library and reads Chaucer and Dante's Peak and stuff.
How was I 0 for 2 on them, by the way?
Am I saying them wrong?
Because you said Chaucer, not Chaucer.
And Dante is the name of the author.
Dante's Peak is the name of a film starring Pierce Brosnan.
Oh, it is.
Yeah, it is.
Yeah.
Yeah, I found it on video.
I've got it on video.
It's a great film.
It's a wicked film.
It's a really good film.
It's next to me.
That's why I'm saying Dante's Peak.
I'm so tired.
You've seen the library that Somerset goes to before.
Because it's not a library.
It's a bank and it's the bank where Cameron Diaz meets Jim Carrey in The Mask.
Actually, yes.
Yeah, it's an abandoned bank.
Amazing.
There are all sorts of films at that time and it's the bank that Jim Carrey works at
in The Mask.
That's incredible.
All of the books on the wall aren't real.
Stop.
They're fiberglass props.
Surely that's got to be more expensive than just buying books, right?
No, weirdly no, because they're always shown in long shot.
Okay.
So when he walks into the big balconyed foyer, that's the bank from The Mask.
And then they just shot him in some closeups with some actual books.
That's insane.
That's actually mindblownly cool.
I thought you were going to be like, it's the bank from The Dark Knight, where the Joker
does the initial scene.
I mean, it could well be.
I've not looked at other films that are shot there, but there's a whole load.
Okay.
If anything, I should have done that, but I didn't.
I'd tell you to go do something with yourself, but I can't because swear jar.
Yeah, swear jar.
I hate this swear jar, by the way.
I hate it.
Do you, do you know what my favorite thing about Seven is?
And this is, this is coming from, you're almost right.
You're almost right.
Of course I am.
No, you saved yourself so well.
You saved yourself so well.
No, no, no.
You're almost right.
Um, right.
I think David Fincher is second to only one director and not by a lot when it comes to
implied horror.
Oh, so this, this film has.
Less violence than some soap opera episodes.
Oh God.
There is less gore.
It does.
There's less on screen killings.
There's less gore.
There's less violence than in some soap opera episodes.
Now it is all left up to the imagination.
You see that you see the fallout of the crimes.
You don't see the crimes, right?
So it's all implied.
It's all in your imagination.
Now, if you think back to Texas chainsaw massacre, Toby Hooper, absolute masterclass in implied
horror, so much of that is off screen or in the distance or implied that you're just left
with your own thoughts and it is thousand times worse than actually seeing it on screen.
Because if it's done poorly or if something looks slightly off, you're out of the moment.
If it's in your head, you ain't getting out of it.
It's there.
Do you know what I mean?
It's why, it's why every vintage creature feature works until act three.
Absolutely.
I swear to, I hate the swear jar.
I hate the swear jar.
I can't finish my sentence.
How, I promise to prove you wrong.
Good sir.
At some point in the future.
Right.
My, allow me to expand on that point.
Okay.
Not every, but there are a great number of vintage creature features that work really
well and as well as they did at the time for acts one and two.
Right.
Because they don't show the creature and your imagination does it.
And then you see the beach ball painted with fangs on it and you go, huh?
I disagree wholeheartedly.
I think with seven and Texas chainsaw massacre, it works because it's murders and I don't
actively want to see a murder.
Right.
Yeah.
But when it comes to like them or you know, something like this, a giant ants or the incredible
shrinking man when the cat is like the monster, it's just a house cat.
Right.
When you finally see the ants in them, I was buzzing my absolute tits off.
Tits isn't a swear word.
Fuck you.
I can't edit that out.
Don't leave it in.
Leave it in.
I can't edit it out.
I'll live by my mistakes.
I was buzzing my tits off because I was like, I cannot wait to see these giant ants.
And then when I did see them and I was like, oh my God, that's so goofy.
Right.
It made it better.
They're not terrifying.
Whereas at the time, terrifying.
And I guess that's my point is that implied horror will always remain terrifying.
It's timeless.
And I agree with you.
I agree with you.
I think he's an absolute masterclass.
Why I think this is a perfect film for you is it is a film about how far you can go.
It's about how far are you willing to go to fight apathy, to fight a sort of bizarre system
that's been set up, a bizarre institution.
There is a huge parallel in this film between the detectives and the killer.
They're both bending the rules.
Both the detectives do things that are not by the book.
So there's a scene where Somerset literally buys illegal records in order to catch the
guy.
Yep.
And he's there and Mills kicks the door in with no warrant and pays a drug addict to
make up a story.
Yep.
Right.
Messed up scene, man.
Horrible world where nobody really cares about what's actually happening.
They're just cared about it being easy, getting through the day, apathy.
Okay.
Fincher goes in, fights the good fight, doesn't be apathetic, and then has a cast that go
through.
Brad Pitt talks about the rain shoots.
He just goes, it was miserable, it was dark, it was wet, and you'd go home feeling really
heavy every day.
There's no relief.
You walk out and it's all bad news.
Really got quite affected by the dark material.
The meticulousness of John Doe is so much like the meticulousness of Fincher.
Okay.
And I feel like they're fighting the sort of injustices of the legal system and the
rules and the restrictions that are placed on them.
Fincher's doing the same with the studio system.
Okay.
He's got this weird obsessive nature.
We compare in Fincher to Kevin Spacey in this analogy, right?
I think Fincher is John Doe.
Okay.
He's the John Doe of film where he's going there with his meticulous details, his master
plan going through.
It's going to be exactly this.
Morgan Freeman said, we did see some scenes so many times, I just didn't know what he
wanted.
But you see it, you understand, it's kind of this relentless pursuit of perfection.
Okay.
That you see in John Doe's crimes, you also see in the movie.
Putting everyone through the wringer.
Brad Pitt's destroyed his hand.
Doesn't matter.
Do you know the take that he destroyed his hand in?
Fincher didn't use it.
Oh my God.
Brad Pitt completed the take.
He does his arm in and then is professional enough to get up and finish the take.
Oh my God.
Pointless because Fincher goes, yeah, I'm not using it anyway.
What a kick in the dick.
What a kick in the penis.
That sounds stupid.
You have a film about meticulous detail and giving a damn, fighting against a corrupt
and apathetic system.
And you have a director who is meticulous and giving a damn, fighting against a corrupt
and apathetic system.
I think by your definition, that makes it perfect.
Well, all right.
So in this true masterclass of filmmaking, where one of the most hyperviolent films that
exists of all time, containing no onscreen hyperviolence, but is also by my own definition,
which I gave earlier, a perfect film, I can't argue with anything, with anything.
This is obviously, it has to be a fat 10 for going forward because you've done what you
said you were going to do and I'm proud of you for it, bud.
And I think it's only more relevant today than it was on the day of its release.
It really is.
Because the world has only got more apathetic.
It's only got worse and darker.
The good news is this made $327 million.
It's over 10 times its budget.
And that's in 1995 money as well.
So that's like billions.
Yeah, that's like $309 billion.
If my math is, if I'm correctly mistaken, I think it's at least $309 billion.
But that's what surprised me is that's nearly double what Alien 3 made.
It doesn't surprise me at all.
I thought just the sheer curiosity of people going, oh, Aliens is an incredible film.
They've made another one.
I must go to the cinema to see it.
How did that work out for the Chrome?
I think they're still, I think they're still, don't even think they've crossed the 10 mil
line yet.
It's been two weeks, Rob.
I'm happy that we're covering all these remakes.
I'm also aware that we're going to be doing the Joker film and its sequel.
And the reviews are starting to roll in for that.
We're also going to be doing Gladiator and its sequel.
And I think we should call this the summer of culture is eating itself and feeding us
the waste.
Yes.
Yeah.
This is snake eating its own tail.
I'm down for this, man.
That's a great, imagine the artwork that's possible there.
Easy.
It's just a circle.
It's the every movie of a summer of culture is eating itself and feeding itself the waste.
I've just quickly fact checked myself on the, uh, the crow 2024 numbers.
They're at 12 million, by the way.
Sorry.
They have crossed the 10 million line in two weeks.
They've earned one fifth of their budget back.
Yes.
Would have made more money just getting a loan and sticking it in a high interest account.
Literally, literally.
Anyway, do you want to play a game?
Hit me with it.
Let's do it.
There are seven questions.
I couldn't tell you why.
Ooh.
And it's for all the little bits of trivia that you probably got in your research, but
haven't had time to put in.
And I wanted to give you a chance to purge.
Okay.
Yeah, let's do it.
What's special about the reporter that snaps Mills' photograph in the corridor?
Piece of cake mate.
It's dough.
It's John Doe.
Yeah.
But what's special about the guy lingering outside Wild Bill's leather shop?
It's John Doe.
It's also John Doe.
Nice.
Easy one to start.
Yeah, easy mate.
Piece of cake.
What's special about the scene where Morgan Freeman throws his knife at the dartboard repeatedly?
Is it his mint at throwing knives?
Who?
The character or the actor?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The actor did it for real.
Morgan Freeman was given a prop knife and they were like, the balance is off.
You'll never be able to throw this.
Just did it.
Yeah.
That's in camera.
No effects.
Yeah.
Okay.
He's incredible.
What's special about the reaction of the SWAT team member to the sloth victim?
Well, sloth is the one where he's brain dead.
Tied to the bed.
Yeah, yeah.
And drugged repeatedly.
That guy didn't know that the actor was supposed to start moving and stuff.
So when he got his face real close to him and then the sloth victim started going, ah,
his reaction was real because no one told him, right?
Yeah.
Incredible.
What's special about that SWAT team member?
Oh, it's John Doe.
No, it's not John Doe.
It's John C. McGinley from Scrubs.
Is it?
Oh, it is.
It's, I almost swore.
It's Perry Cox.
Yeah, Cox.
He's in the heli- he's in the chopper at the end as well.
I've never noticed that until my third watch through for this.
I watched this film three times.
It's not my third one.
I'm like, that's Dr. Cox.
I mean, I was like, oh, that's Dr. Cox.
What's special about Brad Pitt's apartment number?
Uh, it is, I don't know, 69.
Calligraphy.
It's in calligraphy.
It's metal.
It's silver.
It's rounded.
It's odd numbers.
It's apartment 5A and the fifth cardinal sin is wrath.
But there's no A in that.
There's an A in wrath.
Yeah, but it doesn't begin with an A. That's stupid.
What was the seventh highest grossing film of 1995?
Seven.
Yeah.
Fun that, innit?
Yeah, it's a good one.
There is more plot available for this movie.
In what form of media?
Oh, this is quite, this is a tough one, but it's quite easy because I feel like, uh, Wild
Bill, Martin Serene gave us, gave me an insight to this.
He said, did you know that I'm in a comic book?
And I said, hey, what?
I didn't.
It was lots of swearing, but I was like, no, that's really cool.
He pulls out copies of the seven comic book in which Wild Bill is, is like imprinted forever.
Like his character is there.
Comic book.
Our mate, Martin Serene played Wild Bill in this film and we sat down with him for a while.
It was like an hour and a half chatting about the movie.
That was just chatting.
We were there all day.
We literally went to this man's house and just refused to leave for a day.
Yeah.
Uh, he was very graceful host.
Uh, he's a very good, very, very good interviewee and uh, he's incredible.
He let me wear Wild Bill's leather jacket from the film.
The jacket that Wild Bill's wearing.
Yes.
I wore, you wore it too.
We wore Wild Bill's jacket, dude.
We did.
It was incredible.
We didn't get any pictures.
No, we didn't, but it's, you know, I hate myself.
Let's just go back to his house.
We know where he lives now.
Let's go to our mate's house and just docks all of his private possessions by blasting
them on the internet in the back of a photo.
Let's not do that, Ben.
Let's instead talk about the fact that that interview is, is shortly available on YouTube.
Yes.
Yes, it will be.
Um, it's fantastic.
Please go and check it out.
Martin Serene, you are a shining light in a rainy world full of bleak apathy.
We love you wholeheartedly.
Thank you so much for entertaining our nonsense for a full day.
It's a great interview.
Super fun.
Lovely guy.
How did it do in the quiz?
Did I, did I win?
No one really wins in seven, mate.
It has to be a downer ending.
So you win, but it costs you everything.
Okay.
Also, we don't know how many times you swore.
So I don't think I swore in that.
Did I swear in the quiz?
I don't, we don't know.
Well, we're, we're not counting the listeners.
I know I lost count a while ago, but it was very early on.
Right.
Only when I edit do I know how many have actually made it past the edit process.
So you can edit out swears, right?
Some.
Okay.
What about this one?
Quack.
Yeah, that's easy.
All right.
Sound.
Just replace it with like a duck noise or something.
It sounds like I could.
Yeah, that should be fine.
That should be fine.
What about this one?
Fuck.
No, not that one.
That one's staying in.
You just doomed us.
All right.
That's fine.
Have we got time for comment corner?
Yes, we do.
We do.
We have a Romulus reel that went, that did quite well.
Thank you.
Talking about how it broke Canon and how you didn't particularly enjoy it.
Yeah.
And I love this reel because it's probably the first taste you've had of being the individual
target of the internet's hate.
I love it though.
I had it with Barry Kiyogan.
I had it with Marvel phases.
Yeah.
You were kind of like in the reel, but not the target of the hate.
Yeah.
But I could tell you, I could shield it a bit.
Yeah.
Whereas now you are just the damp cookie in the middle of the circle.
I am the damp cookie.
The amount of bullying I'm getting, I will come.
You know what I mean?
That's all I'm saying.
Does that count?
No, that's not a swear word.
Anyway, it's a medical term.
Hurry up.
If you're a doctor, reach out to us.
I've got some non Instagram comments I really want to read to you.
All right.
They're a genuine mystery.
Listen, on that reel, I mean, this has only happened today, but it's one of my favorite
interactions that I've had with anyone ever.
I'll read his part and you read your part.
How's that?
Oh, yes, please.
All right, yeah, let's two for this one.
Go on.
So this happened today.
It's my favorite interaction that we've had in a little while.
Right.
You read, you read the part of J.M. Rogers and I will read the part of me, Ben Groves.
You made the point that sometimes it breaks canon.
How are they, you know?
Yeah, I go into a whole thing.
Fede Alvarez says it doesn't break canon.
I point out a bunch of stuff that doesn't make sense to me.
I think if you're that upset, you need to grow up.
Nah, you do.
I'm not the one crying over canon over the Alien franchise.
Nah, you do.
My man, you're just showing how insecure and childish you are now.
Grow up and move on and get a life.
Nah, you.
All right.
Nailed it.
That's my favorite interactions ever happened.
Just being sort of actively gone out of their way to be like, you need to grow up.
Nah, you do.
Well, you dealt with it maturely.
Thank you.
And like an adult.
Thank you.
I know you've just said that that's your favorite interaction.
Yes.
I'm about to.
Oh, are we topping it?
Trump it immediately.
Are we topping it?
So over on YouTube, we've got a new listener, I think, called Luis Longoria.
OK.
They've commented on a couple of things, right?
So on one of them, one of the reels where I shared about the whip that they dressed
up as a dog.
Oh, yeah.
They've commented, are any of you boys left handed not to hang a Dunlop around your neck?
If you have the black hand, you can't kiss the bricks.
What?
Right.
So then there's also another YouTube short about...
Ben, Ben, we're getting there.
There's a whole picture here, right?
OK.
On one of the reels about Pearl, where I ask if it's one of the best films of the trilogy.
Have you Art History Major Blue Boys covered Attack of the Killer Tomatoes yet?
Frankly, I'm surprised 300 wasn't filmed in Gaelic like kneecap.
Right?
He calls them blue collar, Art History Major Blue Boys.
And then the third and final one, and I do need your help with this one.
OK.
Because there is meaning in that, I think.
OK.
I was asking what links John Wick and the Crow is to do with Chad Stahelski and how
he was Brandon Lee's stuntman.
Yeah.
And then Angoria commented, What happened to James Pumphrey?
Well, the Hoonigans didn't want to go all James Charles like the Stradman or Shmee 150,
so I surmise he went to Stellantis to ram a screwy straight six down our throats.
I liked Judas Priest as much as anyone, but Riddley Scott ate Diddley Squat Farms.
I don't know if you should have read that one out loud because I feel like you've just
released a curse somewhere.
So, A, Luis, Luis, whoever you are.
Yeah.
Fantastic job.
Great.
Continue everything that you're doing.
Love it.
Yeah.
Big fan.
10 out of 10 would recommend.
Yeah.
I'm going to actually reply to these comments shortly and just let them know that we've
responded here.
Please do.
It might be my favorite comments.
The third one just sounded like it might have been a stroke.
It was just ham-fisting the keyboard whilst actively stroking.
Careful because that might be it and I would hate for you to be right.
What are you going to rate seven, Ben?
Fat 10.
I can't get out of it.
You've argued me into a fat 10.
It was going to be a nine, but you've literally hands down proved that it is, by my definition,
a perfect film.
Thank you.
I'm really interested to see where our Fincher series goes from here because there are some
that I think you think you hate that you're going to love and there are some that I think
you think you love that I'm going to make you hate.
Yeah.
It's going to be Nolan all over again.
I'm going to be like, I've watched five of his films and then all of a sudden now it's,
oh my God, I love Dunkirk.
You know what I mean?
Maybe Batman isn't that bad.
It still shocks me that Dunkirk is your favorite Christopher Nolan movie.
It got me, man.
It hit me so hard on so many levels.
It's the one.
That and Interstellar, the one.
Brilliant.
That's all the time we've got for this week, unfortunately, but please do go and check
out our Martin Serene interview over on YouTube.
He is a fantastic human being.
He's wild Bill in seven.
He's in the movie that we just spoke about.
He's incredible.
He's in a perfect film.
He's in, he's literally in a perfect film.
I cannot tell you how rarefied and incredibly hard to breathe that air is.
Yeah.
And we went and sat in his living room and chatted with him for a bit, for a bit, but
we love, go and check it out on, go and check out on YouTube.
It's super fun.
It took me ages to edit.
There's no, there's no reason that it's just more me stroking myself off a little bit.
You know what I mean?
With my left hand, Lewis.
Yeah.
I'm, I'm kissing the bricks.
I don't know what it means.
Kissing the bricks.
I don't know what it means.
What does it mean?
All right.
Well, we love each and every one of you so very much.
Thank you again for spending time with us this week.
It means the absolute world to us.
That is the hardest part of the show to say without any swear words because that's been
there for about 120 episodes now.
Cause we really effin do.
Yeah.
We heckin do.
Frig loves ya.
Frig yeah buddy.
Ben is now going to wrap up the thoughts, themes and feelings of this perfect film
into a little Monday motivational pep talk to thank you for spending an hour of your
week with us, especially at the start of the week.
I'm going to tell you to do what society always tells you to do and just tell you to consume.
I'm going to mirror, I'm going to mirror Andrew in this one.
The, uh, the writer of seven.
Yeah.
All right.
Someone's trying to change your hard work and someone's trying to change your vision
because to make it more palatable for the masses.
Yeah.
This is more sellable and yet you could stand up for yourself.
You could have a backbone.
You could be like, nah, mate, nah, mate, or you could just bank on David Fincher getting
sent the wrong script from an intern that, you know, didn't really know what they were
doing and then your dreams coming true and everything turning out great.
So I think what I'm saying is just eat, eat the shit sandwich.
All right.
Just gobble it down and shut up cause Finch just French is a prowling.
He's a common.
I think I swore in that.
God damn it.