WEBVTT 00:00:03.120 --> 00:00:06.700 It is the 10th of July, it is hotter than Satan's 00:00:06.700 --> 00:00:10.359 taint, and you're listening to the Respec Ramblings 00:00:10.359 --> 00:00:14.419 podcast for Respec .net. With me, Alex Donaldson, 00:00:14.560 --> 00:00:19.019 and I'm joined this week by Tom Ory and by Mr. 00:00:19.140 --> 00:00:21.820 Kurt McKean, a good old friend and colleague 00:00:21.820 --> 00:00:24.160 of ours. How you doing, guys? Alright, I was 00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:27.640 a bit taken back by your rude opening. Is that 00:00:27.640 --> 00:00:30.940 what we are? Is that what we are? Well, it's... 00:00:31.500 --> 00:00:36.219 It's unseasonably, unfairly hot. It is tainty 00:00:36.219 --> 00:00:40.219 as well, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I put this 00:00:40.219 --> 00:00:42.420 top on and this colour is not good because it's 00:00:42.420 --> 00:00:44.600 a colour where we can't podcast for too long 00:00:44.600 --> 00:00:48.500 in this room with fans off because I will be 00:00:48.500 --> 00:00:53.179 looking very gross by the end of it. But yeah, 00:00:53.259 --> 00:00:56.060 how are you guys actually... Do you have fans? 00:00:56.140 --> 00:00:58.020 Do you have air conditioning? Obviously, we're 00:00:58.020 --> 00:00:59.840 British. I've got loads of fans. I'm the most 00:00:59.840 --> 00:01:02.659 popular games journalist. We're not talking about 00:01:02.659 --> 00:01:05.420 your only fans. Games media personality in the 00:01:05.420 --> 00:01:08.439 UK. No fans up here. I've got a fan downstairs. 00:01:08.859 --> 00:01:11.140 Window's open. I'm not wearing any pants, but 00:01:11.140 --> 00:01:13.739 it doesn't matter. Is that the American version 00:01:13.739 --> 00:01:16.019 of pants or British pants? I'll leave that for 00:01:16.019 --> 00:01:21.599 you to decide, Tom. Podcasting Commando is, you 00:01:21.599 --> 00:01:24.140 know, if we're establishing what this website 00:01:24.140 --> 00:01:27.959 is perhaps about, you know, I think there's worse 00:01:27.959 --> 00:01:30.939 things we could be associated with. And it shows, 00:01:31.040 --> 00:01:33.579 you know, we're open. We're open people. We're 00:01:33.579 --> 00:01:38.959 accepting of all kinds. So, yeah, I mean, Kirk, 00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:41.180 how are you? What are you up to these days? Tell 00:01:41.180 --> 00:01:43.359 folks a little bit about it. Obviously, I think 00:01:43.359 --> 00:01:44.640 a lot of people who are listening to this are 00:01:44.640 --> 00:01:47.840 coming at it from... um mine and tom's past history 00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:50.239 so they'll know you from the work you did with 00:01:50.239 --> 00:01:52.239 us and things like that but what are you up to 00:01:52.239 --> 00:01:56.200 these days yeah so uh we were running a company 00:01:56.200 --> 00:01:58.659 that did gaming coverage for mainstream sites 00:01:58.659 --> 00:02:02.200 uh but google changes basically destroyed us 00:02:02.200 --> 00:02:04.959 there which is excellent um but now we're doing 00:02:04.959 --> 00:02:08.319 newsletters gaming .fi side with his head chat 00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:12.300 um And we're talking to game devs, actors, and 00:02:12.300 --> 00:02:14.379 all sorts of people and trying to get down to 00:02:14.379 --> 00:02:16.300 their personalities. It's not just about the 00:02:16.300 --> 00:02:18.580 stuff they make. It's more like getting to know 00:02:18.580 --> 00:02:20.400 them and what makes them tick and trying to make 00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:23.879 them cry. Trying to make them cry. Well, you 00:02:23.879 --> 00:02:26.900 know, it's better than the usual way that media 00:02:26.900 --> 00:02:31.340 makes game devs cry, which is usually by a bad 00:02:31.340 --> 00:02:34.099 review. A bad review or by ringing them up and 00:02:34.099 --> 00:02:35.319 going, have you heard that there's going to be 00:02:35.319 --> 00:02:39.219 cuts? Yeah. Which just happened a bit this last 00:02:39.219 --> 00:02:43.659 week. Yeah, yeah. Sounds like bullying. Are you 00:02:43.659 --> 00:02:46.479 just bullying people? Yeah, but it's people I 00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:49.439 know mostly, so it's fine. Fair enough. I mean, 00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:53.740 that's what we were all about on VG back in the 00:02:53.740 --> 00:02:57.139 day. Speaking of devs crying, though, I guess 00:02:57.139 --> 00:03:02.419 let's roll into really the news topic of the 00:03:02.419 --> 00:03:05.340 week, which is... difficult and shitty and awful 00:03:05.340 --> 00:03:07.699 which is i think you'd have to have been living 00:03:07.699 --> 00:03:10.240 under a rock to not know about it the absolutely 00:03:10.240 --> 00:03:12.699 catastrophic cuts that are going to be happening 00:03:12.699 --> 00:03:15.960 at xbox if you have missed it or you haven't 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:19.379 digested all of the details um the cliff notes 00:03:19.379 --> 00:03:21.800 are xbox has announced they're going to be laying 00:03:21.800 --> 00:03:25.120 off over 3 000 employees they're quoting 3 200 00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:29.219 but that's a very rough top line number so it 00:03:29.219 --> 00:03:30.699 might end up being a little bit more than that 00:03:30.699 --> 00:03:32.080 might end up being a little bit less than that 00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:36.099 but around 3200 um they're going to get rid of 00:03:36.099 --> 00:03:40.780 1600 now and then more over the the next 12 months 00:03:40.780 --> 00:03:44.780 um there's four studios that are leaving xbox 00:03:44.780 --> 00:03:48.680 entirely um so compulsion games who made south 00:03:48.680 --> 00:03:50.719 midnight and double fine obviously it's brutal 00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:53.900 legend and stacking and all these games um will 00:03:53.900 --> 00:03:57.139 go independent And Ninja Theory and Undead Labs 00:03:57.139 --> 00:04:00.159 have new buyers, but we don't know who they are. 00:04:00.340 --> 00:04:03.000 So it'd be interesting to see where they land. 00:04:03.240 --> 00:04:05.159 And then there's just brutal cuts elsewhere. 00:04:05.539 --> 00:04:09.219 25 % of Obsidian, Rebecca Valentine reported 00:04:09.219 --> 00:04:13.280 on Kotaku. Around 50 % of id Software, Game Developer 00:04:13.280 --> 00:04:16.800 and other places reported. Some really long time 00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:19.000 names, you know, people who've worked at places 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:22.560 like Bethesda Game Studios for 20, 30 years. 00:04:23.530 --> 00:04:27.689 Hundreds of people out at ZeniMax online. It's 00:04:27.689 --> 00:04:31.189 pretty brutal. Kirk, what have you felt when 00:04:31.189 --> 00:04:33.769 you've been watching all this go down? What's 00:04:33.769 --> 00:04:36.689 your feeling been? It's just a fucking disaster, 00:04:36.750 --> 00:04:40.110 isn't it? I mean, Spencer is responsible for 00:04:40.110 --> 00:04:43.470 a lot of it. He's failed the company and then 00:04:43.470 --> 00:04:45.689 Ash has come in to fail it even more by the looks 00:04:45.689 --> 00:04:48.649 of it. She's in charge of federal jobs now, right? 00:04:49.129 --> 00:04:53.550 as well which is very funny yes um yeah i don't 00:04:53.550 --> 00:04:55.790 know it just feels like cultural dismantling 00:04:55.790 --> 00:04:58.649 and the way they've dealt with id software for 00:04:58.649 --> 00:05:01.689 example laying off the entire tech team if rumors 00:05:01.689 --> 00:05:04.550 are to be believed and and just then they're 00:05:04.550 --> 00:05:06.149 saying they want them to make their tentpole 00:05:06.149 --> 00:05:09.329 games faster with half the resources and they've 00:05:09.329 --> 00:05:11.990 put obsidian on fallout which is like a monkey's 00:05:11.990 --> 00:05:14.430 paw sort of situation where it's what people 00:05:14.430 --> 00:05:17.209 wanted but now they got half the team And they're 00:05:17.209 --> 00:05:19.550 probably not as passionate about that project 00:05:19.550 --> 00:05:22.649 as they would be about their own thing. And they've 00:05:22.649 --> 00:05:24.870 got to work with Bethesda's engine, which is 00:05:24.870 --> 00:05:26.370 going to create all sorts of problems because 00:05:26.370 --> 00:05:28.350 it's obviously changed a lot since New Vegas 00:05:28.350 --> 00:05:31.790 as well. So they've got to learn the tools. It's 00:05:31.790 --> 00:05:36.370 just every direction of it is just bonkers. Challenging, 00:05:36.370 --> 00:05:38.930 isn't it? Because the Fallout thing is a great 00:05:38.930 --> 00:05:41.850 example of you get... I've seen a few different 00:05:41.850 --> 00:05:43.509 reactions. One reaction has been, well, it's 00:05:43.509 --> 00:05:45.350 about damn time. Microsoft should have told them 00:05:45.350 --> 00:05:48.050 that they had to do that years ago. And you can 00:05:48.050 --> 00:05:50.970 see the logic on that argument, but the argument 00:05:50.970 --> 00:05:53.649 also becomes clearly this wasn't happening before 00:05:53.649 --> 00:05:58.250 now because either Bethesda or Obsidian or both 00:05:58.250 --> 00:06:01.509 didn't want to do it. And so now you've got these 00:06:01.509 --> 00:06:04.629 devs doing something that they really didn't 00:06:04.629 --> 00:06:10.629 originally intend to do. Tom, what's your thoughts 00:06:10.629 --> 00:06:13.610 on the overall? It's just sad, isn't it, really? 00:06:14.569 --> 00:06:16.629 You look at, like, I mean, we knew it was going 00:06:16.629 --> 00:06:20.829 to be a lot of people affected. It just, everything 00:06:20.829 --> 00:06:23.769 kind of leaked out, right? There was big stuff. 00:06:24.310 --> 00:06:26.689 Then you look at, like, if you look at Id, for 00:06:26.689 --> 00:06:32.930 example, who have been around for, what, five 00:06:32.930 --> 00:06:37.029 years? I don't know, a long time. And you think 00:06:37.029 --> 00:06:39.459 of them as, like, I guess how you think of like 00:06:39.459 --> 00:06:41.220 when you're a kid, you think of your parents, 00:06:41.300 --> 00:06:42.720 right? They're going to be around forever. Like 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:45.540 they're just there all the time, right? They're 00:06:45.540 --> 00:06:48.600 like such a kind of staple of the games industry. 00:06:49.019 --> 00:06:52.160 And you figured that they had like Microsoft 00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:54.939 were talking about maybe suggesting that maybe 00:06:54.939 --> 00:06:58.240 they're going to lean more heavily on owned software, 00:06:58.439 --> 00:07:00.439 owned technology rather than licensed stuff. 00:07:00.500 --> 00:07:03.420 And they have technology that the company is 00:07:03.420 --> 00:07:06.360 like partly what it is because of the technology 00:07:06.360 --> 00:07:09.579 it made. um and now that all seems to have been 00:07:09.579 --> 00:07:12.660 like obviously still have it but the people that 00:07:12.660 --> 00:07:16.720 made it well that team's gone so yeah it's just 00:07:16.720 --> 00:07:21.699 sad that's happening and then you get thing like 00:07:21.699 --> 00:07:28.160 studios like uh um undead labs who as far as 00:07:28.160 --> 00:07:30.540 i could see were one of the few that had made 00:07:30.540 --> 00:07:34.699 a successful kind of almost live servicey game 00:07:34.699 --> 00:07:38.759 in uh State of Decay and 2 was really successful 00:07:38.759 --> 00:07:43.939 3 was looking decent and it felt like given the 00:07:43.939 --> 00:07:46.740 Xbox slate that was kind of like a reasonably 00:07:46.740 --> 00:07:50.220 safe bet as a game that was going to do quite 00:07:50.220 --> 00:07:53.040 well and that's been they've been cut loose Ninja 00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:57.800 Theory they've made I mean they were allowed 00:07:57.800 --> 00:08:02.930 I guess to make a fairly niche in Hellblade 2, 00:08:03.129 --> 00:08:05.470 but then the new one looked like exactly the 00:08:05.470 --> 00:08:06.829 kind of game that I guess people were saying, 00:08:06.910 --> 00:08:09.170 well, you make a game like this, that was going 00:08:09.170 --> 00:08:10.949 to maybe look like the kind of game Sony would 00:08:10.949 --> 00:08:14.310 make, right? As a Sony first party game. And 00:08:14.310 --> 00:08:17.290 they've gone. And obviously that's all because 00:08:17.290 --> 00:08:21.250 they're not what Xbox see as the main IP, the 00:08:21.250 --> 00:08:24.009 big halos, the gears, et cetera, the Forza kind 00:08:24.009 --> 00:08:26.930 of games, which they're focusing on, the fallouts, 00:08:27.110 --> 00:08:31.920 Elder Scrolls, et cetera. You kind of wonder, 00:08:32.120 --> 00:08:37.080 like, they've got all this, their new plan, I 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:39.200 guess, is let's pump out more halos, pump out 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:42.240 more gears, pump out more fallout, etc. But these 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:44.179 games, some of these things they're cutting, 00:08:44.460 --> 00:08:48.159 like, there's going to be a void for a while. 00:08:48.220 --> 00:08:51.399 You can't just go, actually, let's have a new 00:08:51.399 --> 00:08:53.460 fallout next year, please. Like, it doesn't happen 00:08:53.460 --> 00:08:55.940 like that, right? So it feels like they're kind 00:08:55.940 --> 00:08:58.850 of gutting things. and then we go i don't know 00:08:58.850 --> 00:09:00.529 what they're going to do to fill this gap where 00:09:00.529 --> 00:09:01.629 there probably would have been all these other 00:09:01.629 --> 00:09:04.509 little games coming out to like people would 00:09:04.509 --> 00:09:05.990 have liked to maybe not have sold them amazingly 00:09:05.990 --> 00:09:10.909 well but it felt like that showcase when it seems 00:09:10.909 --> 00:09:14.289 like an absolute eternity ago now which was what 00:09:14.289 --> 00:09:18.210 last month um was actually like we came off the 00:09:18.210 --> 00:09:20.289 back of that and we're like yeah some good stuff 00:09:20.289 --> 00:09:22.690 here right good stuff and then most of that stuff 00:09:23.309 --> 00:09:25.870 it's now not even it's like an investor pitch 00:09:25.870 --> 00:09:28.929 on it yeah it's so it's so bizarre to look back 00:09:28.929 --> 00:09:33.250 at it now um but a lot of that stuff like i like 00:09:33.250 --> 00:09:35.470 thought looked pretty good obviously state of 00:09:35.470 --> 00:09:38.950 decay we talked about hellblade looked good um 00:09:38.950 --> 00:09:42.629 and it's just like those things that exist hopefully 00:09:42.629 --> 00:09:45.169 and hopefully the people that have that are picking 00:09:45.169 --> 00:09:47.289 these things up will continue there was some 00:09:47.289 --> 00:09:50.230 talk in the the the note wasn't there that the 00:09:50.230 --> 00:09:53.059 xbox for out that there was continued Possibly 00:09:53.059 --> 00:09:54.980 continue a bit of investment in them to get those 00:09:54.980 --> 00:09:59.279 games published. So they've got runway. All four 00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:01.940 studios have runway money. But this is actually 00:10:01.940 --> 00:10:04.500 the thing that I would say is that I've seen 00:10:04.500 --> 00:10:06.039 a lot of people saying, well, they've let them 00:10:06.039 --> 00:10:07.940 go. They haven't shut them down. So that's really 00:10:07.940 --> 00:10:10.440 good. And it is really good. But I don't think 00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:12.600 anybody should be under the illusions that this 00:10:12.600 --> 00:10:17.139 isn't a hard landing. Because like, so. You've 00:10:17.139 --> 00:10:18.860 got two versions of this hard landing, right? 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:20.940 The harder one, without a shadow of a doubt, 00:10:21.039 --> 00:10:22.779 is the one that Compulsion and Double Fine are 00:10:22.779 --> 00:10:25.580 getting, where the situation therein is they 00:10:25.580 --> 00:10:27.860 probably don't have any games that are close 00:10:27.860 --> 00:10:30.480 to release, given how recently their recent games 00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:34.460 came out. So that's why there's no third -party 00:10:34.460 --> 00:10:36.759 buyer for those guys, because they haven't got 00:10:36.759 --> 00:10:38.379 anything imminent. So if you're buying them, 00:10:38.460 --> 00:10:40.679 you might be waiting two, three, four years for 00:10:40.679 --> 00:10:43.620 a return on your investment. So Microsoft's giving 00:10:43.620 --> 00:10:46.250 them some runoff money. to stand up projects 00:10:46.250 --> 00:10:49.169 of their own. But the thing is, that runoff money 00:10:49.169 --> 00:10:51.710 isn't going to fund Double Fine's next game. 00:10:52.049 --> 00:10:54.049 What that runoff money is going to do is fund 00:10:54.049 --> 00:10:57.210 Double Fine for a period of time. In that period 00:10:57.210 --> 00:10:59.070 of time, Double Fine's going to have to try to 00:10:59.070 --> 00:11:02.269 find a publisher or find investment, find a plan 00:11:02.269 --> 00:11:07.610 to self -publish in order to actually continue 00:11:07.610 --> 00:11:10.090 to operate. And if they don't find that by the 00:11:10.090 --> 00:11:12.669 time whatever deal Microsoft has given them expires, 00:11:12.850 --> 00:11:17.360 then... we could be in a situation in nine months, 00:11:17.399 --> 00:11:19.919 in 12 months, where we're looking at more cuts 00:11:19.919 --> 00:11:23.440 at those studios. So that's scary. And then the 00:11:23.440 --> 00:11:24.799 other version, obviously, the Ninja Fury and 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:26.759 Undead Labs one is those guys have got games 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:29.620 that are, you know, sort of in the final stretch 00:11:29.620 --> 00:11:31.700 that are within 12 months of shipping or so. 00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:34.580 So that's obviously really attractive for whoever. 00:11:34.679 --> 00:11:36.419 I don't know who it might be, a 2K, whoever, 00:11:36.580 --> 00:11:38.279 who might come in and go, yeah, we'll publish 00:11:38.279 --> 00:11:44.019 Day of Decay. But if that game is not... A hit 00:11:44.019 --> 00:11:46.279 doesn't meet expectation, whatever. Who knows 00:11:46.279 --> 00:11:48.159 what situation those studios will end up in. 00:11:48.700 --> 00:11:52.759 So it's a really rocky departure. Mind you, a 00:11:52.759 --> 00:11:55.059 rocky departure is better than the alternative. 00:11:55.500 --> 00:11:57.820 And I do think, you know, there were a lot of 00:11:57.820 --> 00:11:59.500 rumors. There was a lot of stuff said. And I 00:11:59.500 --> 00:12:02.480 do think there's never smoke without fire. And 00:12:02.480 --> 00:12:03.899 I think when a lot of that stuff was getting 00:12:03.899 --> 00:12:07.179 reported, stuff was getting reported because 00:12:07.179 --> 00:12:12.080 it was being looked at. and experimented with 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:14.779 so you know a good example is you know um christian 00:12:14.779 --> 00:12:17.139 on the games business you know he was saying 00:12:17.139 --> 00:12:20.419 he obviously reported that obsidian was in talks 00:12:20.419 --> 00:12:24.100 and he said that ended up being not true at the 00:12:24.100 --> 00:12:26.240 time that he reported it but the reason he reported 00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:29.100 is he saw an internal document that was like 00:12:29.100 --> 00:12:31.600 the document that was about how they were the 00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:33.299 document about how they were going to pitch the 00:12:33.299 --> 00:12:35.620 studios that they were selling to other people 00:12:35.620 --> 00:12:40.759 and obsidian was on that document and so i think 00:12:40.759 --> 00:12:42.519 they were going what are we going to do which 00:12:42.519 --> 00:12:43.740 ones are we getting we'd have rich ones we're 00:12:43.740 --> 00:12:46.039 keeping which speaks to the sort of crazy way 00:12:46.039 --> 00:12:49.139 that microsoft has been operating or very last 00:12:49.139 --> 00:12:52.740 minute right that it seems like the thing about 00:12:52.740 --> 00:12:54.879 hellblade is well right it's not my sort of game 00:12:54.879 --> 00:12:58.159 but hellblade 2 was the exact sort of game that 00:12:58.159 --> 00:13:01.379 the xbox audience loves to show off in like clips 00:13:01.379 --> 00:13:04.120 and stuff to show this is how powerful our system 00:13:04.120 --> 00:13:06.620 is and that sort of thing It's like a rise son 00:13:06.620 --> 00:13:08.720 of Rome, right? It's one of those games where 00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:12.340 all those fanboys will share clips and be like, 00:13:12.399 --> 00:13:15.740 look how powerful the Xbox Series X is. The fastest 00:13:15.740 --> 00:13:17.419 and most powerful game console on the planet, 00:13:17.440 --> 00:13:19.740 I believe, is the official terminology. Exactly. 00:13:19.860 --> 00:13:21.539 And I mean, it might not be a big blockbuster, 00:13:22.039 --> 00:13:24.460 but it does something for the brand in that way. 00:13:25.240 --> 00:13:27.620 Well, I think it speaks to a changing of the 00:13:27.620 --> 00:13:30.820 guard, right? Because something I, my understanding 00:13:30.820 --> 00:13:32.779 was that State of Decay, for instance, was a 00:13:32.779 --> 00:13:36.320 particular favorite of Phil's. And so to see 00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:40.159 that go feels quite, his era is over. Although 00:13:40.159 --> 00:13:43.679 that one being going is weird because Asha talked 00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:45.559 about the sort of games she wanted and she talked 00:13:45.559 --> 00:13:50.200 about games that were creating social experiences 00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:52.220 and stuff like that. And State of Decay is exactly 00:13:52.220 --> 00:13:54.600 that. So I would have thought they would have 00:13:54.600 --> 00:13:56.279 wanted to have kept that. I was really surprised 00:13:56.279 --> 00:13:59.399 by that because it just felt like we've seen 00:13:59.399 --> 00:14:02.940 how bad Sony have been going after a live service. 00:14:03.649 --> 00:14:06.110 game right that is successful step decay is not 00:14:06.110 --> 00:14:09.450 it's not like destiny or anything but it is the 00:14:09.450 --> 00:14:11.429 kind of game that they could have a long long 00:14:11.429 --> 00:14:14.629 tail make good money off long term and it's just 00:14:14.629 --> 00:14:16.750 i don't quite get why they've dropped that as 00:14:16.750 --> 00:14:20.710 such but um it's the whole thing's bizarre like 00:14:20.710 --> 00:14:24.009 i'm kind of surprised that the studios have have 00:14:24.009 --> 00:14:26.309 been able to be sold off at all really because 00:14:26.309 --> 00:14:29.210 you look we look at what happened with when perfect 00:14:29.210 --> 00:14:33.190 dark got cancelled right and they failed because 00:14:33.190 --> 00:14:36.690 of what ip issues ownership i guess of perfect 00:14:36.690 --> 00:14:41.669 dark i mean we will we will see in terms of i 00:14:41.669 --> 00:14:43.629 mean that was a funny one because again that 00:14:43.629 --> 00:14:46.009 speaks to the difference in the eras so when 00:14:46.009 --> 00:14:49.690 2k was trying to buy perfect dark my understanding 00:14:49.690 --> 00:14:52.830 of that situation is that deal fell apart because 00:14:52.830 --> 00:14:55.649 of the impositions that microsoft wanted to put 00:14:55.649 --> 00:14:59.230 on the finished game after 2k had finished it 00:14:59.230 --> 00:15:02.389 so for instance microsoft was like we'll sell 00:15:02.389 --> 00:15:05.889 you perfect dark but we but i think it was something 00:15:05.889 --> 00:15:08.090 along the lines of we'll sell you the game we'll 00:15:08.090 --> 00:15:09.789 give you the leads the studio you can rescue 00:15:09.789 --> 00:15:11.870 the studio and stuff but we want to keep the 00:15:11.870 --> 00:15:15.070 ip or keep at hand on the ip maybe some sort 00:15:15.070 --> 00:15:17.470 of you know first first refusal on exclusivity 00:15:17.470 --> 00:15:19.610 of a sequel or something like that and the big 00:15:19.610 --> 00:15:22.269 thing was they wanted to make sure that game 00:15:22.269 --> 00:15:25.289 remained a day one game pass game. And if you're 00:15:25.289 --> 00:15:28.970 2K, you look at that and go, well, where's our 00:15:28.970 --> 00:15:31.289 money coming from then? And so then you end up 00:15:31.289 --> 00:15:33.549 in a situation where 2K were like, this isn't 00:15:33.549 --> 00:15:35.669 going to work for us, bye bye. Now, the one thing 00:15:35.669 --> 00:15:38.230 that's already been said is that State of Decay 00:15:38.230 --> 00:15:40.870 is not going to be on game pass day one. So whoever 00:15:40.870 --> 00:15:44.200 they've sold... It's not a... requirement at 00:15:44.200 --> 00:15:46.179 least i guess they could still they could they 00:15:46.179 --> 00:15:48.500 could strike a game but still but the point is 00:15:48.500 --> 00:15:50.720 i guess that was something that when they cancelled 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:53.399 perfect dark in the phil era they weren't willing 00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:55.759 to entertain that idea and so perfect dark just 00:15:55.759 --> 00:15:58.220 literally didn't get rescued as a direct result 00:15:58.220 --> 00:16:00.799 of that it is my understanding of what happened 00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:03.799 um whereas in this case they appear to be willing 00:16:03.799 --> 00:16:06.139 to let stuff go same for like they've let compulsion 00:16:06.139 --> 00:16:09.879 go with their ips so compulsion owned south of 00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:11.799 midnight so that's one of the avenues that's 00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:14.220 open to compulsion now right in this difficult 00:16:14.220 --> 00:16:17.220 period of they need to find money they've got 00:16:17.220 --> 00:16:19.620 this award -winning game can they find a way 00:16:19.620 --> 00:16:23.240 to kickstart sales same for double fine you know 00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:26.860 ps5 version of kiln whatever they're walking 00:16:26.860 --> 00:16:28.919 away with their ip which is not something i think 00:16:28.919 --> 00:16:32.059 they would have done before the funny thing is 00:16:32.059 --> 00:16:36.460 though the um I'm not funny, but the notable 00:16:36.460 --> 00:16:39.620 thing is we're looking at the impact and we're 00:16:39.620 --> 00:16:40.740 looking at these studios and we're looking at 00:16:40.740 --> 00:16:43.820 the number of jobs within Microsoft. But game 00:16:43.820 --> 00:16:46.120 development is so decentralized now and game 00:16:46.120 --> 00:16:49.720 publishing is so decentralized now. I worry about 00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:52.960 the repercussions in a couple of months as contracts 00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:55.200 wind down or contracts that have already wound 00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:58.000 down at the end of this fiscal, the repercussions 00:16:58.000 --> 00:16:59.840 of those not getting renewed comes through. And 00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:01.480 you've already seen a bit of that in terms of 00:17:01.480 --> 00:17:06.799 like the IO interactive. Yeah. But that's across 00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:10.140 all departments. Like, you know, outsource PR, 00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:12.519 outsource marketing, outsource localization, 00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:15.759 translation, outsource distribution for consoles. 00:17:15.900 --> 00:17:18.019 There will have been massive cuts in those areas 00:17:18.019 --> 00:17:21.119 as well. And who knows how, one, how many jobs 00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:23.180 are going to go. Two, how that is going to impact 00:17:23.180 --> 00:17:26.299 the business. Jobs that aren't actually part 00:17:26.299 --> 00:17:28.839 of that 3 ,200 that are technically outside Microsoft. 00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:31.000 So they're technically not Microsoft's problem. 00:17:31.629 --> 00:17:34.549 Even from a cold CEO perspective as well, it's 00:17:34.549 --> 00:17:38.109 like all of this industry knowledge that's just 00:17:38.109 --> 00:17:41.170 going to leave the industry now and go to private 00:17:41.170 --> 00:17:44.210 sector jobs outside of the games industry. It's 00:17:44.210 --> 00:17:49.349 like, what a fucking waste, man. It's a huge, 00:17:49.490 --> 00:17:52.410 huge, as it always is when we get these sort 00:17:52.410 --> 00:17:54.190 of cuts, it's a huge loss because the amount 00:17:54.190 --> 00:17:57.730 of knowledge and expertise we lose as an industry 00:17:57.730 --> 00:18:01.380 is a massive bummer. They certainly had this 00:18:01.380 --> 00:18:04.500 recently, right? They gutted Bungie, right? And 00:18:04.500 --> 00:18:07.619 like, at the same time, they're saying, let's 00:18:07.619 --> 00:18:11.220 keep making live service games. But the studio 00:18:11.220 --> 00:18:13.380 they spent a fortune on to make live service 00:18:13.380 --> 00:18:16.759 games has been stripped back massively. It's 00:18:16.759 --> 00:18:20.119 all like, I get that maybe the thing that they 00:18:20.119 --> 00:18:22.480 were currently doing maybe wasn't making the 00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:24.859 money they wanted or whatever. But those people 00:18:24.859 --> 00:18:28.299 have done stuff that most studios dream of doing, 00:18:28.359 --> 00:18:30.359 right? Which is... making a hugely successful 00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:32.400 live service game, and then most of them are 00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:34.759 gone. It's hard to make sense of it other than 00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:37.880 from a let's cut the money now to save us some 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:40.839 money in our next yearly report. It's a stock 00:18:40.839 --> 00:18:42.799 game, isn't it? At the end of the day, they're 00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:45.319 not thinking like a company that sells products. 00:18:45.420 --> 00:18:47.460 They're thinking like someone is beholden to 00:18:47.460 --> 00:18:51.200 their shareholders. I was literally told that 00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:55.839 there was an amount. of cents on the dollar where 00:18:55.839 --> 00:18:58.279 basically they were looking at studios and and 00:18:58.279 --> 00:19:00.759 things like that and going well if you're not 00:19:00.759 --> 00:19:03.539 returning more than x amount on every dollar 00:19:03.539 --> 00:19:06.599 spent that's not enough you've got to either 00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:09.259 change or go and so this is what's happened with 00:19:09.259 --> 00:19:12.000 id tech right like i said this on another on 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:14.440 when i went on on chris drink show on the game 00:19:14.440 --> 00:19:17.759 business but i said about you can see a world 00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:22.660 in which um in which id becomes a jewel in microsoft's 00:19:22.660 --> 00:19:27.180 crown but the way the spencer era worked was 00:19:27.180 --> 00:19:32.220 there was no real rush to integrate and something 00:19:32.220 --> 00:19:33.880 i've been told is part of that is because of 00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:36.480 the success of minecraft like the the minecraft 00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:39.980 uh moyang acquisition left moyang alone and that 00:19:39.980 --> 00:19:42.700 was so successful made so much money off that 00:19:42.700 --> 00:19:46.019 they were like well this is the this is the the 00:19:46.019 --> 00:19:49.640 way you do it And actually, I've been told that 00:19:49.640 --> 00:19:53.140 LinkedIn, when Microsoft acquired LinkedIn and 00:19:53.140 --> 00:19:55.599 did it in a very hands -off way, the reason that 00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:57.680 was so hands -off was literally because Microsoft 00:19:57.680 --> 00:19:59.839 as a broader organization had learned from the 00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:02.579 Minecraft thing. But then they applied that to 00:20:02.579 --> 00:20:05.359 all these other game studios. And you can see 00:20:05.359 --> 00:20:08.740 a world where idTech becomes the de facto engine 00:20:08.740 --> 00:20:12.140 for a lot of Microsoft games. And if you end 00:20:12.140 --> 00:20:15.019 up in that world, idTech, the return on the dollar 00:20:15.019 --> 00:20:17.859 it gives you, will be way higher. And it would 00:20:17.859 --> 00:20:20.420 be worth keeping all those guys. They acquired 00:20:20.420 --> 00:20:22.799 Bethesda, and Bethesda had a lot of this inter 00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:25.019 -department stuff going on already, right? They 00:20:25.019 --> 00:20:27.140 had Arkane helping on the Wolfenstein games. 00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:30.339 Id would come in and show studios how to do guns, 00:20:30.440 --> 00:20:33.160 and they could have learned from that and applied 00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:36.200 it across their whole portfolio, but they didn't, 00:20:36.200 --> 00:20:39.339 so... yeah and it just and obviously there are 00:20:39.339 --> 00:20:42.180 then the there's the the loss of all the people 00:20:42.180 --> 00:20:44.200 and stuff like that which is a real bummer but 00:20:44.200 --> 00:20:47.460 also there's the video game fan losses so it's 00:20:47.460 --> 00:20:50.839 like we learned this week that id had pitched 00:20:50.839 --> 00:20:53.779 a perfect dark game and a doom multiplayer game 00:20:53.779 --> 00:20:57.640 and uh there was a original ip as well and it's 00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:01.339 like oh um and life is pain certainly for people 00:21:01.339 --> 00:21:03.759 who like perfect dark um and you know if you 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:08.480 liked avowed sounds like avowed 2 is dead Again, 00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:13.279 just a real bummer. We'll never get another Pentament, 00:21:13.319 --> 00:21:17.420 that's for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those are 00:21:17.420 --> 00:21:21.099 the sort of projects that just feels like there's 00:21:21.099 --> 00:21:23.180 a lot of missed opportunity within Microsoft. 00:21:23.460 --> 00:21:25.960 I think that's what we look at now. Like, you 00:21:25.960 --> 00:21:30.480 know, Pentament is a game that works as a portfolio 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:35.710 play, and the portfolio play is... When you want 00:21:35.710 --> 00:21:37.809 lots of different types of games and lots of, 00:21:37.809 --> 00:21:40.990 you know, lots of scale and lots of variety. 00:21:41.789 --> 00:21:43.930 And actually, I think that's what this ultimately 00:21:43.930 --> 00:21:46.250 is, is this is the ultimate admission that Game 00:21:46.250 --> 00:21:50.789 Pass has failed. Because it's literally them 00:21:50.789 --> 00:21:53.309 going, throwing their hands up and going, we 00:21:53.309 --> 00:21:54.910 don't need these smaller games because we're 00:21:54.910 --> 00:21:56.930 no longer trying to get people to subscribe to 00:21:56.930 --> 00:22:00.509 a service. Do you think all of this is Game Pass 00:22:00.509 --> 00:22:04.559 or Call of Duty though? Or a mix of both? I think 00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:06.500 it's inevitably going to be a mix. I think the 00:22:06.500 --> 00:22:08.720 thing about Call of Duty is the catalogue business 00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:13.599 for Call of Duty is so big that even though they 00:22:13.599 --> 00:22:15.960 had a really bad year with last year's game, 00:22:16.119 --> 00:22:18.819 it was still a hugely profitable chunk of the 00:22:18.819 --> 00:22:21.779 business. They just put one and two to PC as 00:22:21.779 --> 00:22:23.160 well, didn't they? Well, this is what I mean. 00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:25.940 Yeah, it's that. And back catalogue is where 00:22:25.940 --> 00:22:29.380 I think they failed a lot on, like, I don't know, 00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:33.490 how you don't do like a very... cheap and dirty 00:22:33.490 --> 00:22:37.089 um like banjo kazooie double pack for the switch 00:22:37.089 --> 00:22:39.970 i just do not understand because i reckon you'd 00:22:39.970 --> 00:22:44.470 sell a million two million units um just doing 00:22:44.470 --> 00:22:48.009 that and it's never been something they've considered 00:22:48.009 --> 00:22:50.150 but i think it's also because they've had their 00:22:50.150 --> 00:22:53.910 eye on the prize longer term as opposed to so 00:22:53.910 --> 00:22:56.410 the idea of yeah we could do a banjo two pack 00:22:56.410 --> 00:22:58.829 and that would that would make rare profitable 00:22:58.829 --> 00:23:01.240 for two years maybe They're not interested in 00:23:01.240 --> 00:23:04.079 two years. They're thinking about longer term 00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:06.619 because Microsoft, the whole thing is they want 00:23:06.619 --> 00:23:08.960 to have growth every year, year on year on year 00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:11.460 on year. And doing something that only gives 00:23:11.460 --> 00:23:13.539 you a bump for two years is less relevant than 00:23:13.539 --> 00:23:16.640 plowing loads of resources into an ever wild, 00:23:16.779 --> 00:23:19.339 hoping you've got the next, the next Minecraft 00:23:19.339 --> 00:23:22.059 on your hands. So your thieves must have done 00:23:22.059 --> 00:23:25.160 gangbusters though, right? Because they've survived 00:23:25.160 --> 00:23:28.079 all this with, you know, ever wild being in development 00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:30.480 hell for however long. Yeah. I mean, they, They 00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:33.460 had some cuts before, right? But also, I think, 00:23:33.500 --> 00:23:35.859 yeah, Sea of Thieves is the example of, I don't 00:23:35.859 --> 00:23:37.579 think you can come out and make noise about how 00:23:37.579 --> 00:23:39.259 you're doing a Sea of Thieves movie and using 00:23:39.259 --> 00:23:42.799 it as one of the prime examples of what your 00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:46.079 goal is and then cut loads of people from Rare. 00:23:46.220 --> 00:23:49.640 Although people tend to forget, like, you know, 00:23:49.740 --> 00:23:54.240 Rare is the studio behind Sea of Thieves. But 00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:57.019 you look in those credits, loads of other studios 00:23:57.019 --> 00:23:59.789 help on Sea of Thieves. It's not just a rare 00:23:59.789 --> 00:24:02.529 game anymore. Sea of Thieves definitely like, 00:24:02.549 --> 00:24:06.349 it feels like it's in a like, not maintenance 00:24:06.349 --> 00:24:09.609 or something, but kind of a, it feels like they're 00:24:09.609 --> 00:24:11.170 gearing up for something else rather than that. 00:24:11.210 --> 00:24:13.630 That's in like, let's just put out some updates, 00:24:13.730 --> 00:24:15.369 keep the fan base happy while we do something 00:24:15.369 --> 00:24:19.549 else type mode at the moment, right? Well, it 00:24:19.549 --> 00:24:22.250 feels to me like, you look at what they're doing, 00:24:22.349 --> 00:24:24.509 like the new update that they're doing is sort 00:24:24.509 --> 00:24:27.710 of giving players... Creation tools. And what 00:24:27.710 --> 00:24:30.950 I see when I see that is we're handing Sea of 00:24:30.950 --> 00:24:33.769 Thieves to the players so you can make UGC and 00:24:33.769 --> 00:24:37.109 they're going to make Sea of Thieves 2. Or Robloxify 00:24:37.109 --> 00:24:40.289 and all that shit. Maybe, but I think it's more 00:24:40.289 --> 00:24:42.230 likely they're going to do a sequel. So you've 00:24:42.230 --> 00:24:43.890 got to think that's an Xbox One game. There's 00:24:43.890 --> 00:24:45.109 a lot of lessons they've learned. There's a lot 00:24:45.109 --> 00:24:47.890 of tech stuff they probably can't do on the engine 00:24:47.890 --> 00:24:50.730 as it is. So the time's probably come for them 00:24:50.730 --> 00:24:52.700 to do another one. But before you do another 00:24:52.700 --> 00:24:55.099 one, why not give the players ownership to keep 00:24:55.099 --> 00:25:01.400 that player base up for UGC? Anyway, it's a real 00:25:01.400 --> 00:25:05.839 bummer. And I think the true cost isn't quite, 00:25:05.960 --> 00:25:12.200 you know, shown yet. So we'll have to see how 00:25:12.200 --> 00:25:14.019 things shake out over the coming weeks. It's 00:25:14.019 --> 00:25:16.759 a bummer to be just starting out on this website 00:25:16.759 --> 00:25:19.779 and be having the conversation to be about stuff 00:25:19.779 --> 00:25:22.309 like this, though, that's for sure. There was 00:25:22.309 --> 00:25:24.250 a guy at Xbox who was laid off. He was there 00:25:24.250 --> 00:25:27.069 for like 37 years. And he was the guy who made 00:25:27.069 --> 00:25:30.509 the backcom part for Xbox, which was one of the 00:25:30.509 --> 00:25:33.309 biggest announcements. And he's just... And he 00:25:33.309 --> 00:25:36.029 was not just a 37 -year Xbox veteran, but a 37 00:25:36.029 --> 00:25:37.890 -year Microsoft veteran. If you look at the stuff 00:25:37.890 --> 00:25:40.029 this guy had worked on, it's amazing he didn't 00:25:40.029 --> 00:25:42.069 get transferred to another department. But I 00:25:42.069 --> 00:25:43.390 guess part of the problem is when you've been 00:25:43.390 --> 00:25:45.170 somewhere for 37 years, you're probably very, 00:25:45.250 --> 00:25:48.769 very expensive. It proves it's a fucking spreadsheet 00:25:48.769 --> 00:25:50.349 game though, doesn't it? They've just looked 00:25:50.349 --> 00:25:53.789 at you like cold statistically and gone, it's 00:25:53.789 --> 00:25:56.470 like you said, pennies on the dollar. I think 00:25:56.470 --> 00:25:59.150 big companies are always like that, right? It's 00:25:59.150 --> 00:26:04.670 not about individual contribution or anything. 00:26:04.829 --> 00:26:07.789 It's about like, what can we do to make this 00:26:07.789 --> 00:26:12.390 number happen based on these other numbers? Yeah, 00:26:12.410 --> 00:26:17.250 we've been there. We've been there. But yeah, 00:26:17.349 --> 00:26:26.089 it is a numbers game, but I just worry that sometimes 00:26:26.089 --> 00:26:27.549 they're cutting their nose off to spite their 00:26:27.549 --> 00:26:28.829 face. Sometimes they're not seeing the wood for 00:26:28.829 --> 00:26:31.710 the trees. But the other thing I'd say is it's 00:26:31.710 --> 00:26:33.910 like, I don't love everything that Asher is doing, 00:26:33.990 --> 00:26:36.390 obviously, and there's just horrific consequences 00:26:36.390 --> 00:26:41.170 for the industry at large in terms of the talent 00:26:41.170 --> 00:26:42.930 leaving and stuff like that. But what I will 00:26:42.930 --> 00:26:46.779 say is this is... all this is a reaction to everything 00:26:46.779 --> 00:26:50.160 that went wrong and the colossal overreach of 00:26:50.160 --> 00:26:53.299 the Phil era. Absolutely. You don't got to hand 00:26:53.299 --> 00:26:57.119 it to her though. No, absolutely not. I mean, 00:26:57.140 --> 00:26:58.900 we'll see. I mean, and yes, there is the irony, 00:26:58.960 --> 00:27:02.000 as you mentioned, this insane, cruel irony at 00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:06.019 the very end. So Asha Sharma, the Xbox CEO, was 00:27:06.019 --> 00:27:09.119 named, I think yesterday, just right after all 00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:11.759 the layouts, as an advisor to the US Federal 00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:15.980 Reserve. on a panel that deals with jobs and 00:27:15.980 --> 00:27:18.980 productivity. That panel's whole job, its whole 00:27:18.980 --> 00:27:21.400 goal, its primary goal, is to lower unemployment 00:27:21.400 --> 00:27:24.160 and make America more productive. And they've 00:27:24.160 --> 00:27:26.039 put her on that right after she's committed to 00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:29.140 laying off 3 ,200 people. The majority of them 00:27:29.140 --> 00:27:32.039 are probably in America. It's insane, isn't it? 00:27:32.140 --> 00:27:35.900 If you wrote that in a comedy sketch, it'd be 00:27:35.900 --> 00:27:38.900 too on the nose, I think. Yeah, yeah. It's like 00:27:38.900 --> 00:27:44.049 proper brass eye stuff, isn't it? But yeah. So 00:27:44.049 --> 00:27:47.230 from one story, we talked about Xbox. Let's quickly 00:27:47.230 --> 00:27:51.210 talk about Sony. Obviously, the news last week 00:27:51.210 --> 00:27:54.029 before the site had officially launched was about 00:27:54.029 --> 00:27:56.670 Sony announcing that they're going to be discontinuing 00:27:56.670 --> 00:28:01.630 the production of PlayStation game discs or certifying 00:28:01.630 --> 00:28:06.230 new ones. So there'll be a cutoff. Is it 2028, 00:28:06.390 --> 00:28:09.910 the cutoff? I think so. Early January, 2028, 00:28:09.990 --> 00:28:12.609 I think. So basically any game out after that 00:28:12.609 --> 00:28:14.769 date, you won't be able to get a physical version. 00:28:14.910 --> 00:28:16.569 You'll just be able to get a code in a box or 00:28:16.569 --> 00:28:19.490 a digital download. The reaction to this has 00:28:19.490 --> 00:28:23.170 been pretty visceral, I would say. They can't 00:28:23.170 --> 00:28:26.130 tweet anymore, can they? No. And there's a petition 00:28:26.130 --> 00:28:28.450 which is over, which I think is pushing towards 00:28:28.450 --> 00:28:31.789 a quarter of a million signatures. I guess my 00:28:31.789 --> 00:28:34.349 question is, is this totally a losing battle? 00:28:34.490 --> 00:28:39.099 Do you think? Yes. Yeah, it is. It's done. This 00:28:39.099 --> 00:28:41.960 was done ages ago. They shut the factories down, 00:28:42.079 --> 00:28:44.819 didn't they? They're not reversing it because 00:28:44.819 --> 00:28:48.220 I don't see how, like, this is a, like, to be 00:28:48.220 --> 00:28:52.619 clear, like, I'm, I haven't bought an actual 00:28:52.619 --> 00:28:55.700 game on a disc for a long time. I'm not against 00:28:55.700 --> 00:28:57.900 ownership and having collections. And I feel 00:28:57.900 --> 00:29:00.359 sorry for everybody that wants game preservation 00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:02.880 and having physical discs and collecting stuff 00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:04.599 and putting it on their shelves. But from a, 00:29:04.680 --> 00:29:08.140 is this going to affect me point of view? It 00:29:08.140 --> 00:29:10.640 isn't, probably, because I just don't. Like, 00:29:10.660 --> 00:29:13.759 I own probably about six games. Literally, my 00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:15.900 house has six games and three of those, four 00:29:15.900 --> 00:29:19.759 of those are PGR games. So I don't have, like, 00:29:19.799 --> 00:29:21.819 a massive desire to collect. I've never collected 00:29:21.819 --> 00:29:26.220 stuff. What I do think is bad is that, like, 00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:29.960 I'm me, a 40 -year -old man, but as a kid, I 00:29:29.960 --> 00:29:33.369 used to buy games all the time. because I traded 00:29:33.369 --> 00:29:34.670 everything because I didn't have enough money 00:29:34.670 --> 00:29:37.190 to buy and keep games so I literally would go 00:29:37.190 --> 00:29:39.009 and trade not just games I'd trade everything 00:29:39.009 --> 00:29:40.970 and like had a PlayStation trade that in for 00:29:40.970 --> 00:29:43.869 an N64 had an N64 trade that in for another PlayStation 00:29:43.869 --> 00:29:45.230 because I got bored and wanted a PlayStation 00:29:45.230 --> 00:29:49.609 back etc and I think if you are like that audience 00:29:49.609 --> 00:29:53.940 that is relying on that to just to experience 00:29:53.940 --> 00:29:55.559 more stuff and just jump from one thing to the 00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:57.299 other it's a massive shame that that's going 00:29:57.299 --> 00:29:59.440 to be no longer an option but i don't think there's 00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:02.180 any coming back from it like i think this essentially 00:30:02.180 --> 00:30:05.279 has been happening for well over a decade probably 00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:08.819 the build up to this act that like i think there 00:30:08.819 --> 00:30:10.940 was like we've already had consoles released 00:30:10.940 --> 00:30:13.140 this generation but don't have disk drives in 00:30:13.140 --> 00:30:18.240 them right um and i can't see i i i fully expected 00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:20.220 the next consoles not to have a disk drive at 00:30:20.220 --> 00:30:23.210 all I think most people probably would have thought 00:30:23.210 --> 00:30:26.390 that, if they thought, maybe they hoped they 00:30:26.390 --> 00:30:29.910 might, or the option to have one, but I think 00:30:29.910 --> 00:30:32.349 it was inevitable that this was happening. I 00:30:32.349 --> 00:30:35.470 can't see, I mean, this is all at Sony now, Xbox 00:30:35.470 --> 00:30:40.130 are clearly going to do the same thing. You don't 00:30:40.130 --> 00:30:44.349 think that a short -sighted Xbox desperate to 00:30:44.349 --> 00:30:46.990 score points is going to do it? I don't think 00:30:46.990 --> 00:30:48.509 they'd include it, but a disc drive add -on, 00:30:48.509 --> 00:30:51.720 for instance. I think an add -on maybe, but then 00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:53.960 they've got to commit to making the stuff, right? 00:30:54.099 --> 00:30:56.700 And I just don't think it's worth it for them 00:30:56.700 --> 00:30:59.380 particularly. And then Nintendo, I think obviously, 00:30:59.460 --> 00:31:01.980 I think Nintendo is slightly different in that 00:31:01.980 --> 00:31:06.279 their audience is slightly different. And like, 00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:09.960 maybe it's just a naive way of seeing it, but 00:31:09.960 --> 00:31:13.460 I still think like a Switch game is a birthday 00:31:13.460 --> 00:31:15.700 present, a Christmas present, right? A lot of 00:31:15.700 --> 00:31:18.619 people buy their kids or their family members. 00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:21.059 like a switch game for christmas right whatever 00:31:21.059 --> 00:31:23.359 and if that disappears like it's already hard 00:31:23.359 --> 00:31:25.940 enough to buy kids stuff as it is because all 00:31:25.940 --> 00:31:27.740 the things we had as kids are gone right you 00:31:27.740 --> 00:31:30.339 can't buy them a bloody film because everything's 00:31:30.339 --> 00:31:33.380 on netflix or disney or whatever um but yeah 00:31:33.380 --> 00:31:35.740 i think nintendo would probably see stick around 00:31:35.740 --> 00:31:38.859 with physical stuff for a while i can't see even 00:31:38.859 --> 00:31:40.799 then you said nintendo stick around physical 00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:43.819 stuff for a while like nintendo put out the hyper 00:31:43.819 --> 00:31:46.920 mainstream animal crossing -esque pokemon spin 00:31:46.920 --> 00:31:51.160 -off and it wasn't on the cart. Do we know if 00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:53.700 carts are cheaper to produce than Blu -rays? 00:31:54.819 --> 00:31:58.240 No, discs are way cheaper. But was it a game 00:31:58.240 --> 00:32:01.259 key thing? It's a game key card. But the reason 00:32:01.259 --> 00:32:03.299 you do a game key card on Nintendo is because, 00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:05.819 yeah, and this comes to Kirk's question as well. 00:32:05.960 --> 00:32:09.019 So fabricating discs is way cheaper than consoles. 00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:12.319 I mean, that was true in the 90s. That is why 00:32:12.319 --> 00:32:16.569 that was the deciding factor. for Hironobu Sakaguchi 00:32:16.569 --> 00:32:18.910 deciding to do Final Fantasy VII on PlayStation. 00:32:19.029 --> 00:32:22.970 Although the load times and the CG movies and 00:32:22.970 --> 00:32:25.450 all this stuff was of interest, the thing that 00:32:25.450 --> 00:32:27.130 he's on the record saying, the thing that convinced 00:32:27.130 --> 00:32:30.250 him was when Sony was like, oh, by the way, it's 00:32:30.250 --> 00:32:35.430 X number of cents per disc, whereas a Nintendo 00:32:35.430 --> 00:32:38.230 cart was X number of dollars. There's also the 00:32:38.230 --> 00:32:40.289 funny thing with Nintendo of, I think this is 00:32:40.289 --> 00:32:41.730 still true. It's definitely true in the past. 00:32:42.890 --> 00:32:44.769 But I'm pretty sure it's still true that all 00:32:44.769 --> 00:32:48.109 Switch cards, all of them, are all made in Japan 00:32:48.109 --> 00:32:51.630 by Nintendo. And this was always the case going 00:32:51.630 --> 00:32:55.549 back to the 90s. So if you're Ubisoft, you can't 00:32:55.549 --> 00:32:57.349 make your own Switch cards, fabricate them in 00:32:57.349 --> 00:32:59.329 a factory in China, then ship them. You have 00:32:59.329 --> 00:33:02.730 to buy the cards off Nintendo at the cost Nintendo 00:33:02.730 --> 00:33:05.950 sets, and they ain't cheap. And so the reason 00:33:05.950 --> 00:33:07.970 game key cards exist is because obviously when 00:33:07.970 --> 00:33:10.730 you buy those cards, you also pay more for the 00:33:10.730 --> 00:33:13.930 data size on the card. So if you buy a key card 00:33:13.930 --> 00:33:16.009 and if you ship your game on a key card instead, 00:33:16.150 --> 00:33:19.750 you can pay much less because you only need a 00:33:19.750 --> 00:33:23.410 cart that's like got 12 gigabytes of space just 00:33:23.410 --> 00:33:25.829 to hold the base data. You can still trade that 00:33:25.829 --> 00:33:28.529 though, right? That game can still be sold. Which 00:33:28.529 --> 00:33:32.150 I think is like maybe the audience for this isn't 00:33:32.150 --> 00:33:34.349 as big as I think it is, but I think there's 00:33:34.349 --> 00:33:37.230 a big difference between like as much as it's 00:33:37.230 --> 00:33:39.250 kind of a middle ground, I guess. You're not 00:33:39.250 --> 00:33:41.900 getting the... game preservation angle that you'd 00:33:41.900 --> 00:33:44.180 get of like which i think has been gone for a 00:33:44.180 --> 00:33:46.619 while to be fair right things that rarely ship 00:33:46.619 --> 00:33:50.079 with everything complete on a disc and that's 00:33:50.079 --> 00:33:51.940 it right there's billion patches for everything 00:33:51.940 --> 00:33:56.039 but at least with the key card stuff game key 00:33:56.039 --> 00:33:59.019 you can then go to your local game store and 00:33:59.019 --> 00:34:01.119 go i'll give you 20 quid for this but he's not 00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:04.440 that new game store yeah that's true the the 00:34:04.440 --> 00:34:09.690 the online local game store that only dare to 00:34:09.690 --> 00:34:13.130 buy switch games from now on but um i think there's 00:34:13.130 --> 00:34:15.849 gone i was just gonna say in an ideal world like 00:34:15.849 --> 00:34:17.849 the savings that they're making on not having 00:34:17.849 --> 00:34:20.010 to make the boxes for the games and stuff would 00:34:20.010 --> 00:34:22.150 come to the customers but that's not going to 00:34:22.150 --> 00:34:24.650 happen is it they're still going to be 70 quid 00:34:24.650 --> 00:34:26.429 and they're going to stay that price and for 00:34:26.429 --> 00:34:29.789 a year or more you know so look at nintendo games 00:34:29.789 --> 00:34:32.369 they don't really go down in price not for a 00:34:32.369 --> 00:34:36.659 long time yeah i mean nintendo it lives in a 00:34:36.659 --> 00:34:38.960 different world to be fair i mean the preservation 00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:42.019 angle i will say that's something i feel quite 00:34:42.019 --> 00:34:44.460 strongly about and the funny thing with the preservation 00:34:44.460 --> 00:34:48.840 element is that what it means is i hope that 00:34:48.840 --> 00:34:52.239 consoles get cracked way sooner to give you a 00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:56.679 specific example right if you want to play the 00:34:56.679 --> 00:35:00.059 fucked up version of cyberpunk 2077 from launch 00:35:00.059 --> 00:35:02.699 you can go and buy a playstation 4 disc or an 00:35:02.699 --> 00:35:06.030 xbox disc at computer exchange disconnect your 00:35:06.030 --> 00:35:08.130 console from the internet and play that version 00:35:08.130 --> 00:35:11.989 of the game. It's a time capsule. But if you 00:35:11.989 --> 00:35:14.329 obviously got a digital version on PC without 00:35:14.329 --> 00:35:17.409 doing piracy, there's no way to play that version 00:35:17.409 --> 00:35:20.650 anymore. And that's one thing that we'll be heading 00:35:20.650 --> 00:35:23.230 towards. And the only way you avoid that is by 00:35:23.230 --> 00:35:25.389 having the games able, having consoles cracked 00:35:25.389 --> 00:35:28.130 enough that games can be dumped. And a really 00:35:28.130 --> 00:35:30.150 good example actually is Elden Ring, right? Where... 00:35:31.859 --> 00:35:33.380 And I should say, before someone shouts at me, 00:35:33.400 --> 00:35:35.659 obviously I know there's no way on PC because 00:35:35.659 --> 00:35:39.739 you can back up your Steam data, game file data, 00:35:39.920 --> 00:35:42.179 and use piracy to boot it. But I mean, there's 00:35:42.179 --> 00:35:43.880 no natural way. You can't just put a disk in 00:35:43.880 --> 00:35:46.159 in that way. And Outer Ring is also a really 00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:48.639 good example where, God, they were changing and 00:35:48.639 --> 00:35:50.340 iterating that game so much in the run -up to 00:35:50.340 --> 00:35:53.840 launch that... I had to scrap guides that I'd 00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:56.079 written during the review period because the 00:35:56.079 --> 00:35:58.019 stuff I'd written was irrelevant because they'd 00:35:58.019 --> 00:36:00.579 patched the game. They were moving NPCs around 00:36:00.579 --> 00:36:03.500 and shit, weren't they? It was crazy. But again, 00:36:03.619 --> 00:36:05.920 that base version of Elden Ring is on the disc 00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:07.659 and you can totally go and experience that if 00:36:07.659 --> 00:36:10.380 that's what you desire. So on that front, the 00:36:10.380 --> 00:36:13.300 preservation thing, it bums me out a bit. I think 00:36:13.300 --> 00:36:15.639 another good example is when Rockstar made those 00:36:15.639 --> 00:36:19.300 remasters of the old GTA games. They cut music 00:36:19.300 --> 00:36:21.760 out. You know, there was a lot of problems with 00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:24.619 like artwork and, you know, weird textures and 00:36:24.619 --> 00:36:27.000 stuff. And they replaced the old versions with 00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:29.179 those games, you know, and it's not the original 00:36:29.179 --> 00:36:32.460 game, is it? No, but at least in that case, you've 00:36:32.460 --> 00:36:34.480 got the original game on disc. That's the sort 00:36:34.480 --> 00:36:37.539 of, it's today's original games. Like GTA 6 is 00:36:37.539 --> 00:36:40.059 the, again, GTA 6 is an example of like, that 00:36:40.059 --> 00:36:43.699 is a digital only game. And if Rockstar lands 00:36:43.699 --> 00:36:46.760 in a situation where there's something offensive 00:36:46.760 --> 00:36:49.239 and it's more offensive than they thought and 00:36:49.239 --> 00:36:54.159 they patch it out or they run into a rights issue 00:36:54.159 --> 00:36:56.679 with a billboard or with a weapon, that was one 00:36:56.679 --> 00:36:59.079 of the things in those remasters is that those 00:36:59.079 --> 00:37:02.340 old GTAs came out in an era when the weapon companies 00:37:02.340 --> 00:37:04.239 didn't pay attention to video games. So if you 00:37:04.239 --> 00:37:07.679 had an Uzi, you literally had an Uzi one -to 00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:09.260 -one. And now these days, everything's got to 00:37:09.260 --> 00:37:15.130 be slightly weird. to avoid getting sued. And 00:37:15.130 --> 00:37:16.510 they had to replace all the weapons in Vice City 00:37:16.510 --> 00:37:18.269 for the remastering. So if something like that 00:37:18.269 --> 00:37:20.010 happens to GTA 6, what will happen is a patch 00:37:20.010 --> 00:37:22.349 will come down and then everyone will have that 00:37:22.349 --> 00:37:24.690 version again. But I suppose that's small potatoes 00:37:24.690 --> 00:37:31.809 compared to the cash element, like you say, of 00:37:31.809 --> 00:37:35.110 games. Do you think Rockstar had been talking 00:37:35.110 --> 00:37:38.130 to Sony about this disless future for a while 00:37:38.130 --> 00:37:42.239 and that gave them the... going out to say, look, 00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:44.340 we're not launching on disc. I reckon they've 00:37:44.340 --> 00:37:47.599 just seen that CX has got about 800 copies of 00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:50.820 GTA 4 in it. And they've gone, we're not getting 00:37:50.820 --> 00:37:54.480 any money off those. Yeah. So I know that I know 00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:55.980 they get a lot of their stuff. They get people 00:37:55.980 --> 00:37:58.320 in via the online stuff as I write. But I don't 00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:01.119 know if all of it to me feels like they just 00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:03.539 want complete, not Rockstar as such, but the 00:38:03.539 --> 00:38:05.579 platform holders just want control, complete 00:38:05.579 --> 00:38:07.949 control. everything they sell right i mean they 00:38:07.949 --> 00:38:09.670 did this before didn't there were those you remember 00:38:09.670 --> 00:38:11.650 those online codes we used to get in the box 00:38:11.650 --> 00:38:13.489 you have to you have to put a code in you only 00:38:13.489 --> 00:38:16.730 get one and yeah i remember yeah they gave the 00:38:16.730 --> 00:38:20.409 online pass yeah yeah i bought a pre -owned copy 00:38:20.409 --> 00:38:22.789 of one of the ufc games and got at home and the 00:38:22.789 --> 00:38:25.230 code was invalid i was like for fuck's sake can't 00:38:25.230 --> 00:38:27.210 we play the game it's crazy i just paid like 00:38:27.210 --> 00:38:28.590 20 well you could play right but you couldn't 00:38:28.590 --> 00:38:30.630 play online right yeah but that was that was 00:38:30.630 --> 00:38:32.969 what i was wanting to play you know yeah yeah 00:38:32.969 --> 00:38:37.219 yeah yeah i um yeah weird Well, that segues us 00:38:37.219 --> 00:38:38.940 nicely, though, because from publishers having 00:38:38.940 --> 00:38:42.760 or company console makers having absolute control 00:38:42.760 --> 00:38:44.820 to a console maker doing something that they 00:38:44.820 --> 00:38:47.500 have no control over. And that is the news of 00:38:47.500 --> 00:38:51.480 this week that the Nintendo Switch will be discontinued 00:38:51.480 --> 00:38:55.679 in Europe in early 2027. So not even a long way 00:38:55.679 --> 00:38:59.860 away in like six months. It'll still be sold. 00:39:00.519 --> 00:39:04.059 But basically, you know, once they've. reached 00:39:04.059 --> 00:39:05.739 that point they won't be manufacturing anymore 00:39:05.739 --> 00:39:10.099 so once the stock that is out in Europe and Europe 00:39:10.099 --> 00:39:13.099 by the way in this definition is anyone that 00:39:13.099 --> 00:39:16.300 works through Nintendo of Europe so that's the 00:39:16.300 --> 00:39:19.280 UK even though we're not in the EU or whether 00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:20.940 we are in Europe geographically of course and 00:39:20.940 --> 00:39:22.960 maybe that's Australia as well I'm not quite 00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:25.159 sure it is often the case that Australia runs 00:39:25.159 --> 00:39:30.800 through the European offices it's basically nintendo 00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:32.559 hasn't said why they're doing this but because 00:39:32.559 --> 00:39:36.699 it's eu only um it's pretty clear that this is 00:39:36.699 --> 00:39:39.880 due to there's some new eu legislation which 00:39:39.880 --> 00:39:41.260 you're going to notice in all your electronic 00:39:41.260 --> 00:39:45.300 devices which is that any battery powered device 00:39:45.300 --> 00:39:47.460 that takes like a lithium ion battery or whatever 00:39:47.460 --> 00:39:51.780 has to have easily replaceable batteries like 00:39:51.780 --> 00:39:54.360 a consumer has to be able to buy a battery a 00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:57.699 new one take the back off with minimal nonsense 00:39:57.699 --> 00:39:59.599 without voiding their warranty and put a new 00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:02.440 battery in. Which is good, right? This is a good 00:40:02.440 --> 00:40:08.500 thing. On my last phone, my battery swelled up 00:40:08.500 --> 00:40:10.460 and that's it. It's fucked, right? And I couldn't 00:40:10.460 --> 00:40:12.280 do anything about it. It's out of warranty. That's 00:40:12.280 --> 00:40:14.699 it. I could have spent a fortune buying a new 00:40:14.699 --> 00:40:16.639 battery, but because it's not just an off -the 00:40:16.639 --> 00:40:20.519 -shelf, like, easy thing, it wasn't worth it. 00:40:20.679 --> 00:40:23.719 But yeah, I mean, I've disliked built -in batteries 00:40:23.719 --> 00:40:27.039 for a while because... Like the PlayStation controllers, 00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:30.340 right? Like I've had multiple of those just die 00:40:30.340 --> 00:40:34.059 on me. I've had multiple. I've had one. Is it 00:40:34.059 --> 00:40:35.480 the Elite controller? It's the Elite controller, 00:40:35.619 --> 00:40:37.860 right? It has a built -in battery. Not one of 00:40:37.860 --> 00:40:42.039 my early ones. Those died eventually. In my house, 00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:44.179 that gets used a lot. So maybe it's unfair to 00:40:44.179 --> 00:40:46.219 say that those died. But that would have been 00:40:46.219 --> 00:40:49.840 fixed. I just would have had to whip out the 00:40:49.840 --> 00:40:51.340 battery and put an ear in. So it's a good thing 00:40:51.340 --> 00:40:54.480 that this is happening. I don't have anything 00:40:54.480 --> 00:40:57.119 else to say on it. It's just I'm happy that things 00:40:57.119 --> 00:40:59.400 can be fixed. I think it's an arbiter of things 00:40:59.400 --> 00:41:01.400 to come, right? It's like you said, everyone 00:41:01.400 --> 00:41:04.460 is going to have to abide by these rules. So 00:41:04.460 --> 00:41:06.880 you're going to see it hit other products. Actually, 00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:09.659 there's a Switch 2 revision coming to Europe. 00:41:10.840 --> 00:41:12.280 It's obviously going to be the same machine, 00:41:12.300 --> 00:41:13.760 but the only difference is going to be it's going 00:41:13.760 --> 00:41:16.519 to have been retooled to allow the battery to 00:41:16.519 --> 00:41:17.980 be swapped. But Nintendo has obviously decided 00:41:17.980 --> 00:41:20.599 it's not worth doing that revision for the... 00:41:21.190 --> 00:41:24.630 for the 10 year old 10 year old 10 is that right 00:41:24.630 --> 00:41:29.550 i think so i don't know 10 it is 10 next in february 00:41:29.550 --> 00:41:32.190 or something it's 10 in february i think that 00:41:32.190 --> 00:41:33.710 sounds about right yeah it was it was around 00:41:33.710 --> 00:41:36.349 that time of year wasn't it just reminders of 00:41:36.349 --> 00:41:41.690 our own mortality yes um but yeah little story 00:41:41.690 --> 00:41:44.670 but i think interesting um little sign of things 00:41:44.670 --> 00:41:48.820 to come and hey some good some good like governmental 00:41:48.820 --> 00:41:51.239 legislation like this is the thing we're talking 00:41:51.239 --> 00:41:53.460 about the death of the disc and ownership and 00:41:53.460 --> 00:41:54.980 stuff like that and not feeling like you're renting 00:41:54.980 --> 00:41:57.380 games you've got this stop killing games thing 00:41:57.380 --> 00:42:00.280 moving through the european um commission and 00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:02.619 maybe the commission could come up with something 00:42:02.619 --> 00:42:05.420 that actually forces action on the part of publishers 00:42:05.420 --> 00:42:08.440 and platform holders like this is forcing action 00:42:08.440 --> 00:42:12.789 um it's not all bendy bananas apparently Do you 00:42:12.789 --> 00:42:14.869 think they could come up with some sort of way 00:42:14.869 --> 00:42:18.829 to trade digital games? Is that something they 00:42:18.829 --> 00:42:20.469 could do? Well, I think they could come up with 00:42:20.469 --> 00:42:22.570 anything they wanted to. And would they ever 00:42:22.570 --> 00:42:26.110 want to do that? Absolutely bloody not. The thing 00:42:26.110 --> 00:42:30.010 is, why would they be wanting to? Because the 00:42:30.010 --> 00:42:33.269 scenario is, I've got a digital game. I could 00:42:33.269 --> 00:42:36.489 sell it back to Sony or whatever, right? And 00:42:36.489 --> 00:42:39.110 then they give me half the price. And then to 00:42:39.110 --> 00:42:43.199 someone else, that digital code. is essentially 00:42:43.199 --> 00:42:45.239 worth the same as it always would have done. 00:42:45.340 --> 00:42:47.119 So they could sell it to someone else for full 00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:50.260 price, but then they've just given me 30 quid 00:42:50.260 --> 00:42:52.320 that they didn't really have to do. I don't think 00:42:52.320 --> 00:42:55.159 there's any way that's happening. What I will 00:42:55.159 --> 00:42:57.480 say is where we can get a bit better is like, 00:42:57.559 --> 00:43:00.659 I do think like Switch 2 is like, and actually 00:43:00.659 --> 00:43:02.260 it's on the Switch 1 as well, isn't it? But the 00:43:02.260 --> 00:43:05.880 virtual cartridge stuff, where in a family account 00:43:05.880 --> 00:43:08.019 situation, you can pass those virtual cartridges 00:43:08.019 --> 00:43:11.039 back and forth. And you can pass them back and 00:43:11.039 --> 00:43:13.579 forth between consoles. It's really good. And 00:43:13.579 --> 00:43:16.179 hopefully more of them are better at that. So 00:43:16.179 --> 00:43:17.559 Microsoft are pretty good about that as well 00:43:17.559 --> 00:43:19.599 in terms of, you know, you log into your account 00:43:19.599 --> 00:43:22.320 on any Xbox and one quick online authentication, 00:43:22.420 --> 00:43:24.219 you've got access to everything. But that obviously 00:43:24.219 --> 00:43:25.900 is no substitute for selling your games back. 00:43:26.079 --> 00:43:28.099 Was it the PS3 that had it where you could have 00:43:28.099 --> 00:43:30.929 like five accounts on the same? like because 00:43:30.929 --> 00:43:33.269 i'm sure i did it with a few friends would like 00:43:33.269 --> 00:43:35.010 have our accounts on each of those playstations 00:43:35.010 --> 00:43:36.610 you just have access to your whole library so 00:43:36.610 --> 00:43:40.730 the police coming around they they they got rid 00:43:40.730 --> 00:43:42.869 of that pretty quick when it comes to ps4 gen 00:43:42.869 --> 00:43:46.929 so yeah yeah it's um it's an interesting one 00:43:46.929 --> 00:43:50.610 moving on um just a quick you know obviously 00:43:50.610 --> 00:43:53.190 we launched the site this week um so there's 00:43:53.190 --> 00:43:57.769 been a lot going on um But just, you know, some 00:43:57.769 --> 00:44:00.650 quick little highlights. Tom, you reviewed Assassin's 00:44:00.650 --> 00:44:07.150 Creed Black Flag Resynced. Do you want to give 00:44:07.150 --> 00:44:09.469 folk a bit of a quick summary of your thoughts? 00:44:10.570 --> 00:44:14.829 So, yeah. So I think Black Flag is, I don't know 00:44:14.829 --> 00:44:17.650 if it's considered the fan favorite Assassin's 00:44:17.650 --> 00:44:19.130 Creed game, but it's definitely up there as like 00:44:19.130 --> 00:44:21.170 the one people go from the older school ones 00:44:21.170 --> 00:44:25.489 before they went all like vast RPGs. style right 00:44:25.489 --> 00:44:28.550 like we've got the witcher but in assassin's 00:44:28.550 --> 00:44:31.510 creed style um i think it's the one that people 00:44:31.510 --> 00:44:33.409 go i love that's the one i love it's like amazing 00:44:33.409 --> 00:44:35.710 the assassin's creed game that everyone should 00:44:35.710 --> 00:44:39.289 play so i guess that's why they went for this 00:44:39.289 --> 00:44:41.409 one first as a remaster remake rather than going 00:44:41.409 --> 00:44:45.630 one two etc i've never i'd never played bat flag 00:44:45.630 --> 00:44:48.170 i mean i say never played i probably did because 00:44:48.170 --> 00:44:50.610 i played everything but i never played it much 00:44:50.610 --> 00:44:53.119 like i'd got burnt out pretty much on Assassin's 00:44:53.119 --> 00:44:55.360 Creed games after. I think even though this is 00:44:55.360 --> 00:44:58.579 officially called 4, I think there were probably 00:44:58.579 --> 00:45:00.940 at least 6 before this, right? There were other 00:45:00.940 --> 00:45:03.679 ones that weren't titled with numbers and stuff. 00:45:03.840 --> 00:45:05.159 There were yearly as well at that point, weren't 00:45:05.159 --> 00:45:07.300 there? There was a lot of them, right? And I 00:45:07.300 --> 00:45:09.960 kind of stopped playing after, I think maybe 00:45:09.960 --> 00:45:15.480 the one before 3 came out. And then I picked 00:45:15.480 --> 00:45:20.079 up again with Origins and stuff. So this is like... 00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:22.639 a chance to see whether it was actually worth 00:45:22.639 --> 00:45:25.639 like why people love it and it's clear it's obvious 00:45:25.639 --> 00:45:27.900 why people love it because it's a it's kind of 00:45:27.900 --> 00:45:32.960 it gives you the kind of uh large scale kind 00:45:32.960 --> 00:45:36.360 of feel of an open world adventure without all 00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:38.639 the bollocks that goes into modern open world 00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:42.739 games like it's it's a lot of just floating about 00:45:42.739 --> 00:45:45.300 in a boat and having just seeing where you go 00:45:45.949 --> 00:45:48.250 dropping off an island seeing what's there doing 00:45:48.250 --> 00:45:50.869 a few fun little quests and stuff but you're 00:45:50.869 --> 00:45:53.610 not overwhelmed with stuff to do there's not 00:45:53.610 --> 00:45:55.989 a million different bars you've got to try and 00:45:55.989 --> 00:45:59.030 max out and level up and everything else and 00:45:59.030 --> 00:46:01.929 they've done i can't say how it compares to the 00:46:01.929 --> 00:46:04.550 original outside of what i've seen has changed 00:46:04.550 --> 00:46:08.909 but the combat is like it feels like how i kind 00:46:08.909 --> 00:46:11.469 of remember saturn's creed games being but it 00:46:11.469 --> 00:46:14.849 isn't like it's a lot um it feels if i think 00:46:14.849 --> 00:46:17.690 it's like back then it was super simple like 00:46:17.690 --> 00:46:19.570 it was super like everything was trying to be 00:46:19.570 --> 00:46:22.690 arkham right that arkham style like everything's 00:46:22.690 --> 00:46:24.889 like a quick counter counter counter counter 00:46:24.889 --> 00:46:28.949 and it felt a bit sort of like uh routine and 00:46:28.949 --> 00:46:31.269 sort of like you're just performing like a little 00:46:31.269 --> 00:46:33.369 dance around all these people and they're dying 00:46:33.369 --> 00:46:36.670 resist feels a bit more like involved there's 00:46:36.670 --> 00:46:40.550 more to the combat um the ship stuff is is great 00:46:40.550 --> 00:46:42.710 like it's like you get the sense that you're 00:46:42.940 --> 00:46:45.000 doing stuff without actually having like it's 00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:47.159 it's quite simple like it's not like it's not 00:46:47.159 --> 00:46:50.119 a simulation of running a pirate ship or anything 00:46:50.119 --> 00:46:52.719 and you manage to be in control off the boat 00:46:52.719 --> 00:46:54.539 and all the combat as well with all the cannons 00:46:54.539 --> 00:46:57.199 everything else that feel like too much it's 00:46:57.199 --> 00:47:01.760 just a fun fun game that doesn't sort of drown 00:47:01.760 --> 00:47:04.699 in all the other stuff which i think that's how 00:47:04.699 --> 00:47:07.579 assassin's creed games used to be before you 00:47:07.579 --> 00:47:10.360 got the classic like the meme -y like here's 00:47:10.360 --> 00:47:12.840 a picture of the Assassin's Creed map and it's 00:47:12.840 --> 00:47:15.599 just icons right and it's just every Ubisoft 00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:17.860 game is just climb the tower to reveal the icons 00:47:17.860 --> 00:47:20.500 type stuff this feels from an era before that 00:47:20.500 --> 00:47:23.340 slightly where it's still not a small game like 00:47:23.340 --> 00:47:25.260 to do everything in this you're looking at probably 00:47:25.260 --> 00:47:28.019 I don't know 25 -30 hours or something probably 00:47:28.019 --> 00:47:31.099 to see a lot of it all of the main stuff plus 00:47:31.099 --> 00:47:33.639 they added some new side stuff and they've added 00:47:33.639 --> 00:47:37.469 some new end missions and stuff um but it's just 00:47:37.469 --> 00:47:40.809 a kind of game that it feels like it's the right 00:47:40.809 --> 00:47:45.090 mix of like slightly sort of linear adventuring 00:47:45.090 --> 00:47:47.170 with a bit of questing and stuff around around 00:47:47.170 --> 00:47:49.130 to get you from place to place which i think 00:47:49.130 --> 00:47:53.469 for me works if you want that bigger more open 00:47:53.469 --> 00:47:55.489 feel like literally there's so much stuff to 00:47:55.489 --> 00:47:57.829 do you're you're never going to get bored this 00:47:57.829 --> 00:48:00.929 isn't that but i think uh it's just a it's a 00:48:00.929 --> 00:48:03.510 fun game looks amazing as well like i played 00:48:03.510 --> 00:48:07.110 on the ps5 pro it looks great um there was a 00:48:07.110 --> 00:48:10.289 bit i saw a bit of chatter about how like the 00:48:10.289 --> 00:48:12.710 original still looks amazing so why bother updating 00:48:12.710 --> 00:48:15.610 it it does look good if you look at it in the 00:48:15.610 --> 00:48:17.230 right way but it doesn't look as good as this 00:48:17.230 --> 00:48:20.110 like this is like it's the same i had similar 00:48:20.110 --> 00:48:23.590 feelings to when they updated the last of us 00:48:23.590 --> 00:48:26.170 for ps5 because the last of us is good looking 00:48:26.170 --> 00:48:28.949 game but the remake looked like proper great 00:48:28.949 --> 00:48:30.630 right and it made sense because they had the 00:48:30.630 --> 00:48:32.630 tv show and stuff get it up to date so people 00:48:32.630 --> 00:48:36.070 can jump in modern experience of that game this 00:48:36.070 --> 00:48:38.869 is similar in that this is like the game that 00:48:38.869 --> 00:48:40.909 most people remember with some tweaks but it 00:48:40.909 --> 00:48:43.869 just looks significantly better i mean for me 00:48:43.869 --> 00:48:47.250 i don't know what i'd love to know like the costings 00:48:47.250 --> 00:48:49.929 around this versus a completely new assassin's 00:48:49.929 --> 00:48:52.469 creed game because it feels like they could just 00:48:52.469 --> 00:48:54.809 mine this for a while now right like remake one 00:48:54.809 --> 00:48:58.510 remake two three could have a proper job done 00:48:58.510 --> 00:49:02.170 just don't do it leave it alone but i think there's 00:49:02.170 --> 00:49:04.469 there's this i've got an article coming might 00:49:04.469 --> 00:49:06.309 be out by the time this goes live about why i 00:49:06.309 --> 00:49:08.769 love remakes and i think there's a lot of like 00:49:08.769 --> 00:49:12.969 scope in it like people don't like it remakes 00:49:12.969 --> 00:49:15.130 as such because i guess they'd rather something 00:49:15.130 --> 00:49:17.269 new is being made or they don't want the original 00:49:17.269 --> 00:49:19.230 touch but i think as long as the original exists 00:49:19.230 --> 00:49:21.630 we talked about this earlier with like ownership 00:49:21.630 --> 00:49:23.789 of games and what they can do if it never gets 00:49:23.789 --> 00:49:26.110 released but in this case i could go back and 00:49:26.110 --> 00:49:28.949 play this on a ps4 and that's the original version 00:49:28.949 --> 00:49:33.460 by all the ps3 even um repeat but it exists But 00:49:33.460 --> 00:49:35.440 then this new version is there if you want it. 00:49:35.599 --> 00:49:38.320 And I think a lot of people do. Like, from what 00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:40.159 I've seen, this is tracking to do really well. 00:49:41.239 --> 00:49:44.960 And I think I'd be very much up for, like, this, 00:49:45.079 --> 00:49:47.360 but done for the other older Assassin's Creed 00:49:47.360 --> 00:49:48.980 games. Because I think people have got slightly 00:49:48.980 --> 00:49:52.239 tired of the new Assassin's Creed formula. I 00:49:52.239 --> 00:49:54.780 don't think... I wasn't mega into Mirage. It 00:49:54.780 --> 00:49:57.739 was like a... Like, it was fine, but I didn't 00:49:57.739 --> 00:49:59.599 love it. Forgettable. Very forgettable. And I 00:49:59.599 --> 00:50:02.860 think this just feels like it's... has more of 00:50:02.860 --> 00:50:06.539 a, like, the tone, I think, is much more fun. 00:50:06.739 --> 00:50:08.860 Better written than most Assassin's Creed as 00:50:08.860 --> 00:50:11.320 well. I do think it's funny that they replaced 00:50:11.320 --> 00:50:13.420 all the modern bullshit. I don't know if you 00:50:13.420 --> 00:50:15.159 remember from the original, those first -person, 00:50:15.159 --> 00:50:18.179 like, puzzle sections. Yeah. They replaced that 00:50:18.179 --> 00:50:20.420 with some shit in this where you're just carrying 00:50:20.420 --> 00:50:22.679 a chest around in this, like, weird... This weird, 00:50:22.880 --> 00:50:26.380 like, black, blobby cyber person from, like, 00:50:26.380 --> 00:50:32.070 a 90s CGI TV show or something. Yeah. and it's 00:50:32.070 --> 00:50:36.110 like fine but I mean to be honest it's just like 00:50:36.110 --> 00:50:38.429 I quite liked the modern day stuff the old Assassin's 00:50:38.429 --> 00:50:41.130 Creed games yeah I get I get why they've redone 00:50:41.130 --> 00:50:44.230 it because if you come into this without having 00:50:44.230 --> 00:50:46.409 played like because this was what the sixth game 00:50:46.409 --> 00:50:47.849 or something in Assassin's Creed series at that 00:50:47.849 --> 00:50:51.690 point you're not going to get that it wouldn't 00:50:51.690 --> 00:50:53.250 make any sense just throwing it out there but 00:50:53.250 --> 00:50:56.670 I do think there's a lot of like remakes I could 00:50:56.670 --> 00:50:59.130 see being a big it's already quite a big thing 00:50:59.130 --> 00:51:02.320 but some of these studios that are like publishers 00:51:02.320 --> 00:51:05.719 that are struggling to make money essentially 00:51:05.719 --> 00:51:08.980 make good enough profits like if there's a if 00:51:08.980 --> 00:51:11.820 these things are considerably cheaper to make 00:51:11.820 --> 00:51:15.099 than the next big assassin's creed why wouldn't 00:51:15.099 --> 00:51:17.539 you go back and do do this to the other ones 00:51:17.539 --> 00:51:19.780 because i think the audience would be keen for 00:51:19.780 --> 00:51:22.000 it even if the online commentary is maybe a bit 00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:24.099 more negative well look at night dive they've 00:51:24.099 --> 00:51:26.139 made a whole business out of touching up games 00:51:26.139 --> 00:51:28.440 and they do a fucking amazing job of it and then 00:51:28.440 --> 00:51:31.639 blue point until sony killed them was doing good 00:51:31.639 --> 00:51:36.099 stuff there as well so yeah that sounds that 00:51:36.099 --> 00:51:37.880 sounds good i might have to give that a go because 00:51:37.880 --> 00:51:40.519 i think i was i did i do remember playing it 00:51:40.519 --> 00:51:41.980 but i don't think i played it that much and i 00:51:41.980 --> 00:51:44.980 think it was because the third one annoyed me 00:51:44.980 --> 00:51:47.239 so much i was sort of i'd fallen out of love 00:51:47.239 --> 00:51:49.679 with assassin's creed at the time that Black 00:51:49.679 --> 00:51:52.320 Flag being the fourth. Even though it was good, 00:51:52.360 --> 00:51:54.860 it didn't bring me back in. I also remember that 00:51:54.860 --> 00:51:57.519 was a good year for action adventure games because 00:51:57.519 --> 00:52:00.940 that was our GTA 5 year. That was Last of Us 00:52:00.940 --> 00:52:04.019 1 year. So I'll have to give that a go. I should 00:52:04.019 --> 00:52:05.699 say I've been playing. I haven't had a chance 00:52:05.699 --> 00:52:07.039 to write it up because it's been so busy, but 00:52:07.039 --> 00:52:10.519 I will write it up. Rhythm Heaven on Switch. 00:52:11.759 --> 00:52:13.219 It's actually on Switch 1 as well, isn't it? 00:52:13.280 --> 00:52:16.500 But yeah, that new one is lovely. Those games 00:52:16.500 --> 00:52:19.019 are all the same. They're all like really lovely 00:52:19.019 --> 00:52:21.219 8 out of 10s. So there's another really lovely 00:52:21.219 --> 00:52:27.400 8 out of 10. Yeah, so there's that. Recommend 00:52:27.400 --> 00:52:30.360 people check out Tom playing Elden Ring, an Elden 00:52:30.360 --> 00:52:32.920 Ring piece on the YouTube channel. Don't bother. 00:52:33.219 --> 00:52:36.619 How are you getting on, Tom? All right. The main 00:52:36.619 --> 00:52:41.280 takeaway is I swear a lot. like far more like 00:52:41.280 --> 00:52:44.039 I showed this I thought before I show it to everyone 00:52:44.039 --> 00:52:48.480 else I show my son right because he's like me 00:52:48.480 --> 00:52:50.699 in that he's obsessed like he plays a lot of 00:52:50.699 --> 00:52:52.539 games right like obviously he does because he's 00:52:52.539 --> 00:52:58.239 my son and he idolizes me so he's like plays 00:52:58.239 --> 00:52:59.860 everything I was like watch this video what do 00:52:59.860 --> 00:53:00.960 you think you shouldn't you're not allowed to 00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:02.760 play it because it's an 18 or whatever but watch 00:53:02.760 --> 00:53:05.639 it whatever and I'm like literally swearing like 00:53:05.639 --> 00:53:08.199 all the time and now my daughter who watched 00:53:08.199 --> 00:53:10.949 it who's only five constantly says bollocks all 00:53:10.949 --> 00:53:13.349 the time now she just comes out and says bollocks 00:53:13.349 --> 00:53:15.289 and then she'll go something like you can't say 00:53:15.289 --> 00:53:16.949 the s word and then she'll say i'll say what's 00:53:16.949 --> 00:53:19.670 the s word and she'll say bollocks like she has 00:53:19.670 --> 00:53:22.230 no she has no clue but she says it all the time 00:53:22.230 --> 00:53:24.929 and the next episode actually is far worse like 00:53:24.929 --> 00:53:26.769 the amount of swearing in that is unbelievable 00:53:26.769 --> 00:53:30.369 but yeah like i i've never gone with those games 00:53:30.369 --> 00:53:33.250 really are you better or worse than miller though 00:53:34.590 --> 00:53:36.570 probably better minnow was always actually reasonably 00:53:36.570 --> 00:53:39.730 good he just made it seem like he he wasn't whereas 00:53:39.730 --> 00:53:43.750 i'm like at the point where i've decided like 00:53:43.750 --> 00:53:45.909 i literally can't learn how to do these play 00:53:45.909 --> 00:53:50.010 these games properly and i i'm thinking about 00:53:50.010 --> 00:53:52.469 playing it again for the next episode i already 00:53:52.469 --> 00:53:54.610 can't remember what the controls are to be honest 00:53:54.610 --> 00:53:57.349 like i'll have to do a little little run around 00:53:57.349 --> 00:53:59.659 before before i start recording Go for a range 00:53:59.659 --> 00:54:01.699 build, man. Make it easier for yourself. We'll 00:54:01.699 --> 00:54:04.260 see how it goes. I've read nothing about it other 00:54:04.260 --> 00:54:09.440 than I was being told that I should use flasks. 00:54:09.579 --> 00:54:12.719 So I googled what a flask was. That's the level 00:54:12.719 --> 00:54:16.440 of my knowledge of this game. So we'll see how 00:54:16.440 --> 00:54:20.139 we go. We'll grow as we go along. And maybe by 00:54:20.139 --> 00:54:23.860 this time in three years when I finish it, I'll 00:54:23.860 --> 00:54:28.739 be really good. Maybe. Can't wait for the Melania 00:54:28.739 --> 00:54:31.039 fight. That was fun. Yeah, I'm looking forward 00:54:31.039 --> 00:54:32.719 to it. That's the funny thing about Elden Ring. 00:54:32.880 --> 00:54:36.340 It's far more than the other Souls games. There 00:54:36.340 --> 00:54:37.960 does come a point when you turn the corner and 00:54:37.960 --> 00:54:40.539 it clicks. So we'll have to see if that point 00:54:40.539 --> 00:54:42.380 ever comes for you, Tom Lloyd. You're just miserable 00:54:42.380 --> 00:54:46.539 for the whole time. I should say, there's a couple 00:54:46.539 --> 00:54:50.320 of cool articles on our sister site, on RPG site. 00:54:50.940 --> 00:54:52.800 We obviously weren't fully operating, so we didn't 00:54:52.800 --> 00:54:54.980 do the Blood of the Dawnwalker preview, but there's 00:54:54.980 --> 00:54:58.059 a pretty good write -up on that on RPG. There's 00:54:58.059 --> 00:55:00.480 also this lovely interview with an independent 00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:05.500 Japanese dev who's done almost a solo game called 00:55:05.500 --> 00:55:09.739 Veritas Tales, Witch of the Dark Castle. This 00:55:09.739 --> 00:55:11.159 is a guy who used to work at Capcom, used to 00:55:11.159 --> 00:55:13.900 work at Vanillaware. But it's like a digital 00:55:13.900 --> 00:55:15.820 version of a physical game book. So, you know, 00:55:15.860 --> 00:55:17.219 you get a game book and you just flip through 00:55:17.219 --> 00:55:20.099 it and there'd be maps and you'd have a column 00:55:20.099 --> 00:55:21.780 down the side where you'd write in your character 00:55:21.780 --> 00:55:26.159 stats, sort of like an RPG in book form. He's 00:55:26.159 --> 00:55:29.019 made that in a digital form for PC. It's really 00:55:29.019 --> 00:55:31.699 interesting. So I recommend have a read of that 00:55:31.699 --> 00:55:34.579 interview. And there's a huge backlog of stuff 00:55:34.579 --> 00:55:38.340 on Respec because we... We're posting stuff long 00:55:38.340 --> 00:55:41.239 before we launched. I feel like oftentimes when 00:55:41.239 --> 00:55:42.619 we do this section, we'll just be highlighting 00:55:42.619 --> 00:55:45.000 a few things, but this week there's way too much 00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:49.760 to highlight. What have you been playing, Kirk, 00:55:49.840 --> 00:55:52.559 before we quickly do our last section? I've been 00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:55.519 playing Assassin's Creed, Black Flag remake. 00:55:56.280 --> 00:55:59.780 It's alright. And I've been playing shitloads 00:55:59.780 --> 00:56:02.380 of Night Rain, to be honest. Just doing all the 00:56:02.380 --> 00:56:05.969 deep -hilled night stuff. I got five wins in 00:56:05.969 --> 00:56:08.210 a row the other day. I was well chuffed. But 00:56:08.210 --> 00:56:10.969 I've gotten the reads of, like, making proper 00:56:10.969 --> 00:56:13.969 sweaty builds in that game, and it's very good. 00:56:14.130 --> 00:56:17.969 I've got this guy, Raider. I'm trading damage 00:56:17.969 --> 00:56:19.889 with all the bosses and just, like, standing 00:56:19.889 --> 00:56:23.869 and banging with them, and it feels great. I 00:56:23.869 --> 00:56:27.590 should go back to that. I haven't been back since 00:56:27.590 --> 00:56:30.489 the DLC came out. Yeah, see, that's what got 00:56:30.489 --> 00:56:33.110 me back into it. Until now, I haven't touched 00:56:33.110 --> 00:56:35.269 the DLC, and the new bosses are quite cool. And 00:56:35.269 --> 00:56:37.489 then you've got the amped up versions of the 00:56:37.489 --> 00:56:40.469 old bosses as well, which are really cool. Yeah, 00:56:40.489 --> 00:56:42.869 it's worth checking out. Are you two looking 00:56:42.869 --> 00:56:45.050 forward to it? Is it Dustbloods? Is it Dustbloods? 00:56:45.190 --> 00:56:47.849 Fucking can't wait for it. Because that's an 00:56:47.849 --> 00:56:51.389 online Souls night, right? Yeah, I mean, what 00:56:51.389 --> 00:56:53.849 makes me excited about it is I remember Miyazaki 00:56:53.849 --> 00:56:57.230 saying that the original multiplayer in the Souls 00:56:57.230 --> 00:57:00.769 games was inspired by him breaking down on a 00:57:00.769 --> 00:57:04.199 hill. covered in snow and then two people just 00:57:04.199 --> 00:57:06.199 driving up behind him and pushing him up a hill 00:57:06.199 --> 00:57:08.440 and it was like two strangers cooperating with 00:57:08.440 --> 00:57:11.300 me in that way made me want to implement multiplayer 00:57:11.300 --> 00:57:13.659 in a similar way and i just want to know what 00:57:13.659 --> 00:57:16.380 kind of mad thing he's done here with multiplayer 00:57:16.380 --> 00:57:18.519 because they've got they've got these systems 00:57:18.519 --> 00:57:21.519 in it where everyone's got like you know like 00:57:21.519 --> 00:57:23.179 werewolves among us everyone's got like their 00:57:23.179 --> 00:57:25.900 own objective or whatever so someone will be 00:57:25.900 --> 00:57:28.099 like you've got to team up with this player and 00:57:28.099 --> 00:57:29.599 then another one will be like you've got to assassinate 00:57:29.599 --> 00:57:31.670 this player Or you've got to kill this boss. 00:57:31.849 --> 00:57:34.809 So everyone's got conflicting objectives or cooperative 00:57:34.809 --> 00:57:36.929 objectives as well. And it would just be cool 00:57:36.929 --> 00:57:39.489 to see how those things interact with that formula. 00:57:40.730 --> 00:57:43.750 Yeah, I'm very excited. Also because that's being 00:57:43.750 --> 00:57:45.969 published by Nintendo, I'm curious about how 00:57:45.969 --> 00:57:50.710 his sensibility interacts with the Nintendo side 00:57:50.710 --> 00:57:52.510 producer, the thoughts they will bring to the 00:57:52.510 --> 00:57:58.070 table, the Nintendo attitude. Yeah, I can't wait. 00:57:58.309 --> 00:58:01.860 The game chat. Can I be like a knight in the 00:58:01.860 --> 00:58:05.420 game chat? My face change, but it lip sync to 00:58:05.420 --> 00:58:09.820 a undead knight or something. I wouldn't even 00:58:09.820 --> 00:58:14.159 notice the difference if it did. We will see. 00:58:14.579 --> 00:58:16.980 I'm sure we'll learn a bit more about that relatively 00:58:16.980 --> 00:58:19.119 soon. It feels like the time will come. We'll 00:58:19.119 --> 00:58:21.119 be coming up for that to happen. And I'm very, 00:58:21.199 --> 00:58:23.420 very, that'll be a game that probably gets its 00:58:23.420 --> 00:58:26.300 own Nintendo Direct, like a standalone Direct. 00:58:27.530 --> 00:58:29.690 I will probably watch it like six times to devour 00:58:29.690 --> 00:58:32.650 every detail. It's funny how every console gets 00:58:32.650 --> 00:58:34.389 their FromSoft game, don't they? They're like, 00:58:34.530 --> 00:58:36.489 I'll have one. Then I'll have one. And they're 00:58:36.489 --> 00:58:41.869 all just blood one. Xbox doesn't get one. Was 00:58:41.869 --> 00:58:45.769 Sekiro not Xbox time exclusive? No. I think it 00:58:45.769 --> 00:58:49.989 was on everything. The last time Xbox had a FromSoftware 00:58:49.989 --> 00:58:54.909 exclusive was, I'm sure, what was it called? 00:58:55.190 --> 00:58:58.960 Ninja Blade? Ninja Blade was good. Yeah, like 00:58:58.960 --> 00:59:00.719 it was a Ninja Gaiden knockoff. Ninja Blade 2. 00:59:01.320 --> 00:59:04.119 Did they do a sequel? I'm sure there was a sequel. 00:59:05.559 --> 00:59:08.639 Was there? Can I imagine that? I remember reviewing 00:59:08.639 --> 00:59:12.079 the first one. It was good. Good game though, 00:59:12.079 --> 00:59:16.480 Ninja Blade. Underrated. Obviously no Miyazaki 00:59:16.480 --> 00:59:18.599 involvement, but nevertheless. It was a good 00:59:18.599 --> 00:59:21.440 Ninja Theory. That and didn't From Software do 00:59:21.440 --> 00:59:29.150 Enchanted Arms? launch xbox 360 jrpg where one 00:59:29.150 --> 00:59:31.989 of the characters is the most offensively stereotypical 00:59:31.989 --> 00:59:35.710 gay people you've ever seen in your life um like 00:59:35.710 --> 00:59:37.769 that character could not exist in the form he 00:59:37.769 --> 00:59:40.369 exists in that game today wasn't from stuff behind 00:59:40.369 --> 00:59:43.389 tenshu as well or am i yeah yeah that because 00:59:43.389 --> 00:59:46.750 sekiro was like a spiritual successor yeah i 00:59:46.750 --> 00:59:50.469 loved those games yeah that'd be cool to make 00:59:50.469 --> 00:59:55.659 a new one yeah and so We're going to finish off 00:59:55.659 --> 00:59:58.659 with what will be a regular little drop, which 00:59:58.659 --> 01:00:03.699 is our retro respective. Hey, hey. Where we just, 01:00:03.760 --> 01:00:07.719 we're going to make everyone feel a little bit 01:00:07.719 --> 01:00:09.599 old, or at least those of you who are old feel 01:00:09.599 --> 01:00:12.079 a little bit old. Where we just talk about things 01:00:12.079 --> 01:00:14.840 that happened and games that came out on this 01:00:14.840 --> 01:00:18.920 week in the past on, you know, significant anniversaries. 01:00:19.780 --> 01:00:23.159 So in the last week, Pokemon Go turned 10 years 01:00:23.159 --> 01:00:30.000 old. which is crazy. I mean, were you on VG 24 01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:33.360 -7 Kirk when that was starting out or was it 01:00:33.360 --> 01:00:42.400 only later? Only later, right? I just remember 01:00:42.400 --> 01:00:44.739 when it was an assignment coming in and very 01:00:44.739 --> 01:00:46.400 few other people covered it and we were like, 01:00:46.500 --> 01:00:48.460 yeah, we're going to go for this. I remember 01:00:48.460 --> 01:00:51.980 us being all over it, yeah. I don't play it anymore, 01:00:52.179 --> 01:00:54.780 but I saw they did a big event in Times Square 01:00:54.780 --> 01:00:59.420 this week where they sort of recreated the first 01:00:59.420 --> 01:01:01.760 advert for the game in real life. And they had 01:01:01.760 --> 01:01:03.420 Mewtwo on the billboards in Times Square and 01:01:03.420 --> 01:01:06.119 stuff. And I did feel a pang of nostalgia for 01:01:06.119 --> 01:01:10.460 walking around. I got in my car and drove to 01:01:10.460 --> 01:01:13.659 places to meet friends, to walk around parks, 01:01:13.980 --> 01:01:20.059 to do specific events and stuff. I never got 01:01:20.059 --> 01:01:22.579 the appeal of it until I went to a Monster Hunter 01:01:22.579 --> 01:01:26.159 Now event in Tokyo. And I was just walking around 01:01:26.159 --> 01:01:28.659 with loads. And the Japanese people are obviously 01:01:28.659 --> 01:01:30.139 really into Monster Hunter. And there's just 01:01:30.139 --> 01:01:32.059 people everywhere in their phones and chatting. 01:01:32.179 --> 01:01:34.900 And the atmosphere is really cool. And if it's 01:01:34.900 --> 01:01:37.139 been like that around here, maybe I'd have got 01:01:37.139 --> 01:01:38.880 into it. But, you know, I live in Link. I caught 01:01:38.880 --> 01:01:43.019 a Bulbasaur at a National Trust once. Nice. That's 01:01:43.019 --> 01:01:45.519 it. That's my experience of Pokemon Go. Well, 01:01:47.780 --> 01:01:51.710 thanks for that insight. we've also got um i 01:01:51.710 --> 01:01:56.429 think this is a great one um 20 years old uh 01:01:56.429 --> 01:02:01.030 prey i think i reviewed that that's because you 01:02:01.030 --> 01:02:04.150 are pretty sure but that was obviously a human 01:02:04.150 --> 01:02:10.309 head joint um may that studio uh like rest in 01:02:10.309 --> 01:02:13.409 peace good game got the portals cool looking 01:02:13.409 --> 01:02:15.880 portal i just remember What about the intro to 01:02:15.880 --> 01:02:19.420 that game? Fear the Reaper. Is it Fear the Reaper? 01:02:19.599 --> 01:02:22.820 Yeah. Don't Fear the Reaper. Don't Fear the Reaper? 01:02:22.900 --> 01:02:25.780 I don't know. I don't know music. You don't want 01:02:25.780 --> 01:02:28.980 to Fear the Reaper, do you? Fear the Reaper? 01:02:29.000 --> 01:02:30.380 I want to Fear the Reaper. Do I want to Fear 01:02:30.380 --> 01:02:34.519 the Reaper? I don't know. The song is telling 01:02:34.519 --> 01:02:37.099 you to not, so. Yeah. Don't Fear the Reaper. 01:02:37.340 --> 01:02:39.599 Yeah. Right. That's why I've been going wrong 01:02:39.599 --> 01:02:44.230 all these years. Fearing it. But anyway. bloody 01:02:44.230 --> 01:02:47.630 good game um hey we talked about it earlier that 01:02:47.630 --> 01:02:49.730 was an id tech game that was an id tech 4 game 01:02:49.730 --> 01:02:54.349 um and yeah the use of the portals was really 01:02:54.349 --> 01:02:59.250 clever and the spirit yeah in my mind it like 01:02:59.250 --> 01:03:02.150 exists to say in the same space as darkness i 01:03:02.150 --> 01:03:06.530 don't know if that came out yeah 100 100 i agree 01:03:06.530 --> 01:03:09.909 like they think character models are quite similar 01:03:09.909 --> 01:03:13.510 yeah and like the main guy It was a year later 01:03:13.510 --> 01:03:15.409 than Darkness. It was a year later than Darkness. 01:03:16.230 --> 01:03:18.889 And they were both published by 2K. So there 01:03:18.889 --> 01:03:22.369 was an element of the 2K portfolio at that point. 01:03:25.489 --> 01:03:28.710 Both really good. I remember Prey being one of 01:03:28.710 --> 01:03:32.489 those really early 360 showcase games. Like, 01:03:32.510 --> 01:03:37.269 look at what this console can do. And that era 01:03:37.269 --> 01:03:41.440 when Microsoft enjoyed de facto exclusives. You 01:03:41.440 --> 01:03:45.539 know, like it wasn't on PlayStation because it 01:03:45.539 --> 01:03:47.860 was a PC game and it was easy to port to Xbox. 01:03:48.019 --> 01:03:50.719 They just ported it to Xbox, right? Something 01:03:50.719 --> 01:03:52.420 that Microsoft could no longer rely on. But hey, 01:03:52.480 --> 01:03:58.219 pray 20 years old, which is fucked. Also, hey, 01:03:58.380 --> 01:04:01.480 Game Within a Game, which I love. And it had 01:04:01.480 --> 01:04:04.019 like a Pac -Man knockoff, didn't it? In the bar 01:04:04.019 --> 01:04:05.579 at the start that you could play on the arcade 01:04:05.579 --> 01:04:08.500 machine. Yeah, it's a great bit of world building 01:04:08.500 --> 01:04:10.980 that whole intro was really. And then you don't 01:04:10.980 --> 01:04:12.619 go back to Earth for the whole game, do you? 01:04:13.019 --> 01:04:15.800 Nope. That's the only bit on Earth. And I'll 01:04:15.800 --> 01:04:17.920 forever, you know, be sad that we never got to 01:04:17.920 --> 01:04:20.739 see Human Head's version of Prey 2. Not that 01:04:20.739 --> 01:04:22.579 the Prey that we got, the reboot, wasn't good. 01:04:23.940 --> 01:04:26.320 Yeah, but Arkane was saddled with that name. 01:04:26.360 --> 01:04:28.639 They didn't want that. You know, that was Bethesda 01:04:28.639 --> 01:04:30.780 just saying, we've got a name. You're having 01:04:30.780 --> 01:04:33.659 it. And it backfired on them, unfortunately. 01:04:35.119 --> 01:04:38.559 Yes, unfortunately. Which we'll find out the 01:04:38.559 --> 01:04:42.239 fate of. arcane in the coming months i think 01:04:42.239 --> 01:04:47.000 um other ones uh last couple uh castlevania 2 01:04:47.000 --> 01:04:50.119 badminton revenge so that's the game boy castlevania 01:04:50.119 --> 01:04:55.679 2 um that's 35 years old i remember that game 01:04:55.679 --> 01:04:58.960 being good i remember the the game boy castlevania 01:04:58.960 --> 01:05:03.960 2 being an action game more than the nes one 01:05:03.960 --> 01:05:06.679 where it was full of esoteric annoying puzzles 01:05:06.679 --> 01:05:08.940 that were impossible to figure out about a guidebook 01:05:10.849 --> 01:05:16.690 Yeah. Game Boy was shit. No, mate. I think we 01:05:16.690 --> 01:05:20.110 should make you play some Game Boy games at some 01:05:20.110 --> 01:05:21.789 stage. I hated the Game Boy. They're even worse 01:05:21.789 --> 01:05:23.630 now. I've got one over there. I've got one over 01:05:23.630 --> 01:05:26.949 there. Rubbish. Great machine. One of the greatest 01:05:26.949 --> 01:05:29.690 machines of all time. Home to the best game of 01:05:29.690 --> 01:05:36.019 all time. Which is what? Tetris. I had a machine 01:05:36.019 --> 01:05:38.420 with just Tetris on it. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:05:38.480 --> 01:05:42.000 But it was a Game Boy game first. And lastly, 01:05:42.059 --> 01:05:44.820 we've got Virtua Fighter 5, which is 20, which 01:05:44.820 --> 01:05:48.099 I cannot believe. That new Virtua Fighter looks 01:05:48.099 --> 01:05:51.420 really good. So that's why I thought this could 01:05:51.420 --> 01:05:53.900 lead. Because I saw it and it's really interesting 01:05:53.900 --> 01:05:57.980 because it's a Shenmue game, really. Yeah, I 01:05:57.980 --> 01:05:59.900 like the way that, like, the parries are, like, 01:05:59.920 --> 01:06:01.880 really natural and stuff. It's not just, like, 01:06:01.960 --> 01:06:03.980 he's in a guard stance and then they punch his 01:06:03.980 --> 01:06:06.059 guard stance. You're actually moving the hands 01:06:06.059 --> 01:06:08.380 and stuff. That's always been the Virtua Fighter 01:06:08.380 --> 01:06:12.039 way. It's always looked more visceral and real 01:06:12.039 --> 01:06:16.860 than a Street Fighter or a Tekken. But I just 01:06:16.860 --> 01:06:19.719 wonder, like, I saw them at Summer Games Fest, 01:06:19.800 --> 01:06:23.300 right? And it was a fascinating, like... You 01:06:23.300 --> 01:06:24.960 get all sorts of appointments. Some appointments 01:06:24.960 --> 01:06:26.880 you go and you sit down and you play the game. 01:06:26.980 --> 01:06:28.260 Some appointments someone talks to you for a 01:06:28.260 --> 01:06:30.699 bit, then you sit down. Some appointments you 01:06:30.699 --> 01:06:32.780 don't play a game, but you watch a really lush 01:06:32.780 --> 01:06:36.860 presentation. You know, Resident Evil, Veronica, 01:06:37.000 --> 01:06:38.719 they had a really lush presentation and then 01:06:38.719 --> 01:06:41.840 the director answered a few questions for 15 01:06:41.840 --> 01:06:45.219 minutes. But this virtual appointment was a 90 01:06:45.219 --> 01:06:49.639 -minute PowerPoint. And just a very casual chat 01:06:49.639 --> 01:06:52.159 back and forth. And it was myself. Someone from 01:06:52.159 --> 01:06:54.880 GamesRadar and the YouTuber, fighting game YouTuber, 01:06:55.039 --> 01:06:59.320 RPG YouTuber, Maximilian. And the three of us 01:06:59.320 --> 01:07:01.300 just spoke to these guys. But I was like fascinated 01:07:01.300 --> 01:07:03.239 because I asked them about competitive stuff. 01:07:03.599 --> 01:07:06.360 And they were like, yeah, you know, we're not 01:07:06.360 --> 01:07:08.199 really worried about that. Like we'll release 01:07:08.199 --> 01:07:10.360 the game and then people will decide if they 01:07:10.360 --> 01:07:12.980 think it's competitive or not. If it's competitively 01:07:12.980 --> 01:07:15.400 balanced, which I've never heard a fighting game 01:07:15.400 --> 01:07:17.300 producer say anything like that before in my 01:07:17.300 --> 01:07:19.559 life. And I don't know if this is because it's 01:07:19.559 --> 01:07:21.340 RGG doing it and they're approaching it more 01:07:21.340 --> 01:07:25.199 from that Yakuza angle. Cinematic, yeah. Because 01:07:25.199 --> 01:07:27.039 they are doing that cinematic story which makes 01:07:27.039 --> 01:07:29.400 the Street Fighter World Tour stuff look like 01:07:29.400 --> 01:07:36.119 child's play. Is that a proper adventure? Yeah, 01:07:36.119 --> 01:07:37.940 that's what I mean. It's got four protagonists. 01:07:38.280 --> 01:07:40.519 Because I thought that's what Street Fighter 01:07:40.519 --> 01:07:43.079 was going to have. But it felt a bit more like... 01:07:44.429 --> 01:07:45.909 I don't know how to describe the world tour. 01:07:45.909 --> 01:07:47.829 More like an online portal, wasn't it? World 01:07:47.829 --> 01:07:51.269 tour was a training ground to teach you how to 01:07:51.269 --> 01:07:56.389 play the game, really. Whereas this is more of 01:07:56.389 --> 01:07:58.130 a, like I said, they've got four different protagonists, 01:07:58.250 --> 01:08:00.269 so you're switching back and forth perspectives. 01:08:01.869 --> 01:08:06.510 And I like the idea, a bit like world tour, but 01:08:06.510 --> 01:08:09.150 the problem with world tour is you can't, Street 01:08:09.150 --> 01:08:11.170 Fighter is just so iconic, you can't do too much 01:08:11.170 --> 01:08:15.460 to Chun -Li or whoever. I like the idea that 01:08:15.460 --> 01:08:17.899 all the old, well, not all, but the old Virtua 01:08:17.899 --> 01:08:19.920 Fighter characters that are in this game are 01:08:19.920 --> 01:08:22.180 like legends. A lot of them haven't been seen 01:08:22.180 --> 01:08:24.340 for five, ten years. A lot of them are in hiding, 01:08:24.420 --> 01:08:26.180 stuff like that. And so the way they're going 01:08:26.180 --> 01:08:27.579 to come into the story is probably going to be 01:08:27.579 --> 01:08:31.279 really exciting. So, yeah. But 20 years for VF5 01:08:31.279 --> 01:08:33.199 today, which is a great fighting game, and obviously 01:08:33.199 --> 01:08:36.199 has only just recently had a re -release. So 01:08:36.199 --> 01:08:38.100 I recommend it to anyone who's interested. But 01:08:38.100 --> 01:08:40.520 it's a Virtua Fighter game, so you do basically 01:08:40.520 --> 01:08:46.039 need a PhD to play it. I think that's probably 01:08:46.039 --> 01:08:47.439 going to do it for this week, gents. I think 01:08:47.439 --> 01:08:50.579 we've taken enough of people's time. Obviously, 01:08:50.699 --> 01:08:55.380 if you want to hear a bit more from us, our patrons 01:08:55.380 --> 01:08:58.739 get the lock -in, which is our after -hours extra 01:08:58.739 --> 01:09:01.739 podcast where we just shoot the shit some more 01:09:01.739 --> 01:09:04.779 very, very casually. You can back us on Patreon. 01:09:04.939 --> 01:09:07.899 You can head to respect .net and hit the Patreon 01:09:07.899 --> 01:09:09.880 link at the top of the site, or you can go to 01:09:09.880 --> 01:09:13.079 patreon .com forward slash respect net, no dot 01:09:13.079 --> 01:09:16.939 in the Patreon. url um or you can just read the 01:09:16.939 --> 01:09:20.659 site follow the site on blue sky on x on facebook 01:09:20.659 --> 01:09:23.380 whatever whatever platform you use that'll help 01:09:23.380 --> 01:09:25.659 you to get our uh get our stuff or join our discord 01:09:25.659 --> 01:09:28.199 server stuff is all available in there all those 01:09:28.199 --> 01:09:30.819 links are in the header of the site kirk you 01:09:30.819 --> 01:09:33.779 got anything you want to plug not really check 01:09:33.779 --> 01:09:38.420 out fires out chat gaming my what kelp scalp 01:09:38.420 --> 01:09:42.930 hair hair You can't fuck yourself. Look at the 01:09:42.930 --> 01:09:44.930 state of your life. There's more here than on 01:09:44.930 --> 01:09:47.050 yours. Mate, I could grow better hair than you 01:09:47.050 --> 01:09:50.649 if I wanted to. Go on then. I fucking will, mate. 01:09:51.050 --> 01:09:57.390 Challenge. I'm in denial. Actually, it's coming 01:09:57.390 --> 01:09:59.430 to blows now. Is it cheating if you go to Turkey, 01:09:59.510 --> 01:10:04.989 though? I would say it's a good commitment if 01:10:04.989 --> 01:10:08.489 you did that. I might just become a hat guy now. 01:10:10.730 --> 01:10:13.010 Well, if you want to see more of Kirk's beautiful 01:10:13.010 --> 01:10:20.409 scalp, you can hit up Firezied Gaming for some 01:10:20.409 --> 01:10:22.250 great... They are good interviews, to be fair, 01:10:22.270 --> 01:10:25.789 mate. They're enjoyable how it's not a promotional 01:10:25.789 --> 01:10:28.770 cycle for a specific game. I hope you get some 01:10:28.770 --> 01:10:30.430 Japanese devs at some point because that's... 01:10:30.430 --> 01:10:32.909 Yeah, that would be nice. I do have an article 01:10:32.909 --> 01:10:35.609 coming out on Eurogamer this weekend, I think, 01:10:35.609 --> 01:10:38.010 as well. It's 1 ,300 words about ladders, if 01:10:38.010 --> 01:10:40.600 you're interested. That sounds interesting, but 01:10:40.600 --> 01:10:42.520 I can't condone reading Eurogamer, unfortunately. 01:10:45.899 --> 01:10:49.079 Tom, you can't go ladders. You write about fucking 01:10:49.079 --> 01:10:53.460 plumbing issues and shit. That's a different 01:10:53.460 --> 01:10:58.880 side business, isn't it? That's my newsletter, 01:10:59.140 --> 01:11:04.680 Low Poly Mess. I've been enjoying it. It's like 01:11:04.680 --> 01:11:09.939 the Ravens of a Mudman. Well, it is the ravings 01:11:09.939 --> 01:11:16.500 of a mountain. It is. And on that note, thank 01:11:16.500 --> 01:11:18.300 you for joining me, guys. And thank you for listening, 01:11:18.460 --> 01:11:22.560 everyone. Say goodbye, Kirk. Goodbye, Kirk. Say 01:11:22.560 --> 01:11:26.119 goodbye, Tom. See ya. And it's bye from me too. 01:11:26.239 --> 01:11:26.899 See ya, everyone.