Welcome back to the Neogentrics Multiverse Podcast.
Glad to be back. So last time we sat down, we
spent a lot of time unpacking this really massive
world building question. Like, is the continent
of Pekodesh this fully realized, breathing world,
or is it just... you know, convenient narrative
scenery designed to serve a tragedy. Right. The
whole stage versus story debate. Exactly. And
we landed in a really interesting place, I think.
We found genuine strengths in the architecture
of the setting. I mean, Eon Pax's brutal, systemic
harvesting pipeline that just swallowed up the
protagonist's younger brothers, Milo and Florin.
Yeah, that was heavy. We really felt the weight
of that permanence. Crater Steve tearing through
the Sukar estate and just, well, taking them.
Right. But we also acknowledged some genuine
gaps, you know, where the world felt a little
thin when the main characters weren't directly
on screen. But today, we're shifting our focus
from the stage to the tragedies themselves. Which
is where Neogentrics really traps the reader,
honestly. Oh, absolutely. So here is the central
question we are tackling today. What is the single
best twist in book one? And if you've been following
along, you know our usual format is to take a
single claim and argue opposite sides of it.
We are mixing that up today. We are. We are each
championing a completely different twist and
putting them head to head to figure out which
moment represents the absolute narrative peak
of the novel. So I will be representing the sheer
visceral horror of the Kenshin is Malamar reveal.
And I will be championing the structural genius
of the Congo War time loop reveal. I mean, we're
really going for the heavy hitters here. I've
been looking forward to this because frankly,
book one does not hold back. It conditions you
to expect standard fantasy tropes only to just
completely pull the rug out from under you. It
really does. So let's get right into it. I am
arguing that the Kenshin is Malamara reveal is
the ultimate twist, mainly because of how completely
and devastatingly it recontextualizes every single
mentor scene that precedes it. Every single one.
Yeah. Right. Like it takes a trope we all intuitively
trust, the gruff, eccentric, but, you know, deeply
loving master. And it turns our own hindsight
into absolute horror. I mean, we spent chapters
believing Kenshin is just some rogue swordsman
wandering the markets of Sukar, taking pity on
an orphaned boy. Just a classic underdog setup.
Exactly. But the reveal shatters that. Kenshin
was never real. He was Mala, a deep cover agent
orchestrating a 20 -year psychological operation
ordered directly by Iolite. 20 years, an entire
lifetime of absolute dedication to a complete
fabrication. It's almost hard to fathom. It is.
And that is precisely why it hit so hard. It
was a 20 -year grooming process to prepare a
lamb for slaughter. When you reread the book
and look back at Kenshin telling Zeonics that
his grandfather, Zeon Clerics, was a quote -unquote
crystal loan shark, I mean, your stomach drops.
Because you realize what he's actually doing.
Right. On a first read, we assume that's just
the hard, gritty truth meant to toughen the boy
up, keep him grounded. But in hindsight, it was
a highly calculated lie designed to sever Zeonix
from his true noble legacy. Malomar wanted to
ensure that if Zeonix ever encountered a loyalist,
he would inherently distrust them. It's just
so malicious. Even the wholesome birthday party,
remember that? The one the town of Sukar threw
for him? Oh, man. The one moment where Zeonix
finally felt like he belonged somewhere? That
was entirely orchestrated by Malamar. It was
calculated torture designed to build a foundation
of trust purely so it could be weaponized later.
That profound, intimate betrayal is the peak
of the book for me. Well, I can already tell
you're going to push back incredibly hard on
my choice, given how much emotional weight you're
placing on the human element here. But I have
to firmly plant my flag on the Congo wartime
loop reveal. I mean, I don't hate it, but...
I say it's the superior twist precisely because
it is the structural catalyst that literally
causes every other twist in the book to happen.
Wait, you're saying it causes Malamar's betrayal
too? I am saying it is the direct mechanical
cause of it, yes. Malamar's entire 20 -year scheme
in Sukar is entirely dependent on that specific
time loop anomaly. Okay, I see where you're going
with this. Right. Because if you pull the thread
of Zerl folding the void so that Zeonix can step
backward and meet his grandfather on the battlefield
of the Congo War, the entire plot of book one
completely unravels. The time loop isn't just
a shocking visual or, you know, a cool mechanism.
It is the load -bearing pillar of the entire
narrative architecture. Without it, the house
collapses. Okay, I certainly see the causal link
you're drawing there. But let's think about how
these twists actually function for the reader
in the moment of discovery. Fair enough. While
the time loop is a neat, incredibly intricate
mechanical trick, the Malamar twist is deeply,
devastatingly human. I just have to ask you,
does a structural domino effect really hit the
reader harder than realizing the man who fed
you, housed you, and protected you? was actively
teaching you your elemental arts incorrectly
on purpose. The betrayal is profound, yes. And
I won't deny that realization is sickening. Sickening
almost feels like an understatement. It's systemic
sabotage masked as paternal love. Let's talk
about the mechanics of the early physical training
for a second. Kenshin forces Zeonix to swing
that massive, unbalanced meat cleaver for hours
on end until his hands literally bleed. The whole
training montage. Right. At the time, as readers,
we just assume it's the classic, you know, wax
on, wax off trope. We think he's building necessary
muscle. But after the twist, when we actually
understand the elemental arts, we realize Malamar
was forcing him to use a meat cleaver to build
brute kinetic force. Which is the exact opposite
of what he needs. Exactly. The green wind style,
which is Xeonyx's natural birthright, requires
fluid, aerodynamic momentum, and quiet harmonic
focus. By forcing him to use a heavy, unbalanced
weapon, Malmar was literally building the wrong
muscle memory into Xeonyx's nervous system. He
was intentionally crippling the boy's natural
form so he could never reach his true potential.
Yeah, it's brittle. To me, that level of intimate
anatomical violation hits infinitely harder than
a timeline paradox. Okay, that is a highly compelling
breakdown of the meat cleaver training. It truly
is anatomical sabotage. But I want to challenge
your framing here. Have you considered that everything
you just described, the meat cleaver, the 20
-year lie, the psychological grooming, is quite
literally just a symptom of the true masterstroke?
A symptom. Yes. The 20 -year lie is brutal, but
absolutely none of it happens without the sheer,
terrifying narrative genius of Iolite standing
knee -deep in the mud of the Congo War. Okay,
you want to talk about the mud of the Congo War?
We can definitely go there. But I actually think
it exposes a flaw in your argument. Oh, we have
to go there, because that scene is where the
brilliance of the antagonist is truly forged.
When Zeon drops into that past timeline, the
universe is practically bleeding together. Iolite
is fighting his own brother, Zeon Clerics, in
the absolute chaos of elemental combat. It is
a very chaotic scene. Smoke is everywhere, shrapnel
is flying, it's absolute sensory overload. And
across the battlefield, Iolite locks eyes with
Zeonix for just a few seconds. Now, if you're
reading a standard run -of -the -mill fantasy,
what happens here? The villain receives some
mystical prophecy of his own defeat. He looks
into a crystal ball, the clouds part, and he
sees his doom preordained by the gods. Which,
to give credit where it's due, Neogentric smartly
completely avoids. Entirely avoids, because Iolite
doesn't receive a prophecy. He uses cold, terrifying
logic. He observes this young, out -of -place
stranger fighting alongside his brother. He recognizes
the highly specific green wind style being utilized.
He sees the distinct facial resemblance, and
right there, amidst the explosions, in the span
of maybe three seconds, he deduces that his brother's
bloodline survives into the future. It's a massive
deductive leap, but yes, he makes it. And that
single debetion, which is born entirely from
the time loop anomaly, is what sets the 20 -year
trap in motion. The time loop twist is superior
because it perfectly showcases the terrifying,
deductive intellect of the antagonist, rather
than relying on fate. Okay, that is a really
strong point about how it establishes Iolite's
intellect. But if we're going to dig into the
mechanics of the Congo War time loop... I actually
think it flirts dangerously with breaking the
internal logic of the universe itself. Let me
offer a different way to look at this. Sure.
To me, introducing time travel into a gritty
setting feels like installing a narrative escape
hatch in a submarine. A narrative escape hatch?
How so? Think about the pressure PicoDash is
under. It is a submarine deep underwater. It
is an unforgiving reality defined by permanent,
brutal losses. We just talked about Milo and
Florent being violently ripped from their home
by Creator Steve and fed into Eon Pax's empire.
Right. That happened, and it was permanent. We
know about the unceremonious murder of Zeonic's
parents. Death matters here. The stakes are grounded
in permanence. But the moment Zero folds space
and lets someone walk into the past, you open
an escape hatch. It suggests that bending the
fundamental rules of time is possible. And if
you're a reader, you immediately think, well,
why mourn anyone if we can just manipulate the
void and try again? It risks cheapening the permanent
reality of the violence we've spent hundreds
of pages establishing. I understand why our reader
might initially have that reaction. I do. But
I completely reject the escape hatch label. I
think it severely misrepresents the strict, brutal
physics of the elemental arts that neogentrics
took such care to establish. But it is time travel.
If you're listening to this and worrying about
paradoxes or infinite redos, you have to look
at the cost. This isn't a magical revolving door.
But functionally, it is a door to the past. It
allows a character to step out of their current
timeline. A door that exacts a massive, almost
fatal biological toll. We have to look at the
canon rules governing this specific event. First
and foremost, only Zeonix travels through time.
Nobody else. Ever. Okay, true. Eon Pax cannot
mass produce this to win the war. I alike cannot
use this to retroactively undo his own strategic
failures. It is a strictly isolated, highly volatile
anomaly. An anomaly that just happens to perfectly
serve the protagonist's need to understand his
grandfather. But look at how it serves him and
look at the physical cost paid to achieve it.
Let's abandon the submarine metaphor for a second.
Think of Zyreel folding the void like a person
trying to manually hold open a watertight door
at the absolute bottom of the Mariana Trench.
Okay, that's a vivid image. Zyreel does not travel
through time with Zeon Nix. Zyreel stays in the
present, and he acts as a biological tentpole.
He is utilizing his mastery of the elemental
arts to create a localized vacuum in space -time.
And the moment he does that, The universe doesn't
just passively accept it. No, it pushes back.
Exactly. The immense atmospheric pressure of
normal reality violently rushes in to crush that
vacuum. Zyrel is standing there in the present,
coughing up blood, his lungs literally being
compressed by the sheer weight of the universe
actively rejecting the paradox. Right. He is
paying the biological tax for an unprecedented
elemental output. Yes. The universe violently
fights back. Xyriel nearly dies just holding
the fracture open for a few hours, and eventually
that atmospheric pressure wins. It violently
slams Zeonix back into his own time, permanently
sealing the rift. Neogentrix uses this to prove
that the universe of Pekadesh is governed by
strict, punishing physics. It is an earned twist
paid for in blood and shattered biology, not
a free pass to go fix the plot. Okay, I'll admit,
the Mariana Trench visual actually helps clarify
the elemental mechanics at play. Zyril isn't
casting a spell. He is becoming a physical wedge
against reality. But even if the physics are
punishing, even if it nearly kills Zyril, the
resulting timeline manipulation still risks undercutting
the permanence of the present day for the reader.
I really don't think it does, because we have
to look at the outcome. The time loop doesn't
undo a single tragedy. Xeonyx's parents are still
dead. Crater Steve's raid still happens. Milo
and Florence are still gone. Xeonyx doesn't save
his grandfather, Xeon Clerics, in the Congo War.
He just fights alongside him for a brief chaotic
moment. If anything, the time loop actually creates
more trauma than it resolves, precisely because
it triggers Iolite's paranoia. Which brings us
right back to the causal chain you mentioned
earlier. It all comes back to the causality.
You know... As much as I want to dig my heels
in on the psychological horror of Kenshin, I
pride myself on following the logic of the text.
And if we trace the forensic timeline of the
plot step by step, I am finding it difficult
to deny the structural bedrock of the time loop.
The domino effect is mathematically precise.
It really is. Let's trace it out. If Zyrel doesn't
make that desperate, near -fatal void fold, well,
if the atmospheric pressure of the void doesn't
force Zeon phonics to materialize on that exact
square inch of the battlefield in the Orion Lands,
then the meeting between him and Zeon clerics
never happens. Never happens. And if they never
stand shoulder to shoulder, Iolite never looks
across the smoke. He never deduces the future
survival of the Green Wind lineage. And if he
doesn't deduce that, the trap is never set. Right.
Malamar is never ordered to assume the identity
of Kenshin. He never wanders into the markets
of Sukar, and he never infiltrates Zeonic's life.
So when you map it out like that, I really have
to concede that the Congo wartime loop is the
architectural bedrock of the plot. Without it,
the entire second half of Book 1 simply does
not exist. The betrayal I'm championing is just
downstream of your twist. I really appreciate
you mapping that out because it highlights exactly
why I think it's the engine that drives the entire
tragedy. However, listening to you unpack the
mechanics of the Me Cleaver training earlier
really struck a chord with me, and I think I
need to look at the limitations of my own position
here. Oh. I'm curious where you think the time
loop falls short. Well, while I firmly maintain
that the time loop is the structural cause of
everything that follows, I have to admit that
it functions primarily as a cold, mechanical
device. It is a brilliant display of the physics
behind the elemental arts, and it perfectly highlights
Iolite's intellect, but it lacks intimacy. It's
very clinical. It is. It doesn't carry the emotional
weight of a human relationship. The Malamar twist,
on the other hand, delivers the actual psychological
payload of the book. It takes the mechanical
setup and turns it into emotional devastation.
Precisely. Zyrel folding the void is awe -inspiring
from a world -building perspective, but realizing
that Kenshin's warmth... His gruff protection,
his mentorship, the very food he put on the table
in Sukar was actually a weapon forged by the
enemy. I mean, that is viscerally upsetting.
To use a different metaphor, the time loop builds
the house, but the Malamar twist locks the doors
and burns it down with the protagonist trapped
inside. Wow. That's a grim way to put it, but
accurate. You are absolutely right that the weaponization
of trust is the true emotional peak of the text.
It's the realization that the cold, punishing
machinery of the universe, you know, the void
folds and atmospheric pressures, is ultimately
less terrifying than pure human malice. Exactly.
The universe is indifferent, but Malamar was
intentional. I think this exchange has really
illuminated something special about how Neogentrix
constructs a narrative. If we look at where we
both landed. I maintain that the Malamar reveal
is the most viscerally terrifying moment in book
one because it weaponizes our own understanding
of narrative tropes. By teaching Xeonyx to swing
a meat cleaver, Malamar deliberately corrupted
the boy's physiological foundation in the elemental
arts, proving that the deepest, most permanent
wounds aren't made with swords on a battlefield,
but with 20 years of weaponized trust. And I
maintain that the Congo War time loop is the
absolute pinnacle of world gilding in Pico Dash.
It executes a flawless, closed causal loop governed
by strict, unforgiving physics. Zyril, acting
as a biological tentpole against the crushing
atmospheric pressure, proves this isn't some
cheap narrative trick to undo death. It is a
brutal, costly manipulation of the void that
serves as the mechanical catalyst for every single
tragedy that follows. And perhaps the reason
this book resonates so deeply is exactly this.
It is the combination of the intricate reality
-bending mechanics of the elemental arts paired
perfectly with devastatingly intimate human betrayal.
You need the cold logic of the time loop to facilitate
the burning intimacy of the 20 -year lie. They
feed into each other, elevating the material
far beyond a standard fantasy novel. Complexity
almost always requires multiple perspectives
to fully appreciate. When you put the mechanics...
and the malice side by side, you see the full
picture of what neogenics accomplished. You really
do. And as always, we aren't here to declare
a definitive winner or tell you how to read the
book. We leave it entirely up to you, the listener,
to weigh the evidence. Whether you are fascinated
by the brutal physics of the void or terrified
by the psychological depth of a 20 -year lie,
there is always more to explore in the text.
Join us for our Season 2 retrospective, where
we look back at everything we've covered and
rank the debates themselves.