1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:28,860 No. 2 00:00:28,860 --> 00:00:34,460 MHS, where real education meets real life. I'm your host, Randy Hubbard, an instructor of Cold Case 3 00:00:34,460 --> 00:00:38,140 MHS with my co-host Ashlyn, and we thank you for listening. 4 00:00:38,140 --> 00:00:59,740 So, welcome back to Cold Case MHS. One of the things that I wanted to do coming into this next 5 00:00:59,740 --> 00:01:04,860 year is bring back some of our alumni who have taken the class and to see what their perspective 6 00:01:04,860 --> 00:01:12,140 was on the class. Our guest, Matthew Poe T. Hello, I am Matthew Poe T. I graduated in 2020, took the 7 00:01:12,140 --> 00:01:19,340 class in the years of 2019 and 2020, and I am excited to be back. So, when you first heard about 8 00:01:19,340 --> 00:01:23,740 the Cold Case class, and I'm going to be honest, Matthew's one of the ones that when I came up 9 00:01:23,740 --> 00:01:28,060 with the idea, kind of went to him right away and said, hey, if I do this, you're going to be in the 10 00:01:28,060 --> 00:01:33,020 class, right? And kind of twisted his arm just a bit. I wanted to know, what did you think about 11 00:01:33,020 --> 00:01:37,020 it when you heard that we were going to have class like this? Well, my first thought was, absolutely, 12 00:01:37,020 --> 00:01:42,380 yeah, let's do it. That was a really great idea, obviously, with my background, my dad being in 13 00:01:42,380 --> 00:01:48,460 the police force. That first year in forensics was a blast for me. You and I bonded really well, 14 00:01:48,460 --> 00:01:53,580 and you know that I have a passion for this kind of stuff. So, when you brought it up, what a way 15 00:01:53,580 --> 00:01:58,620 to go out and sing your dear to start something new for this school. When the idea came up and was 16 00:01:58,620 --> 00:02:05,100 brought up to me, I was all for it. I was excited to start something that I thought was going to 17 00:02:05,100 --> 00:02:10,060 last a while here at MHS, and it looks like it has. I have a hard time calling it a class, because 18 00:02:10,060 --> 00:02:14,380 I don't really think it's a class. I don't stand up and lecture and do all that kind of stuff. 19 00:02:15,020 --> 00:02:19,660 I think it's more of an experience. Coming into it, you and I had talked about how it's not really 20 00:02:19,660 --> 00:02:25,740 going to be a class. Yes, by school rules, you have to get a grade at the end of the year, but that's 21 00:02:25,740 --> 00:02:31,100 never what matters. I mean, if you show up and you do the work, it's truly about the experience, 22 00:02:31,100 --> 00:02:37,260 like you said. Not a lot of high schools have been able to do something that we're doing here at 23 00:02:37,260 --> 00:02:42,700 MHS, especially with this class. You're going to learn life lessons. My experience coming into the 24 00:02:42,700 --> 00:02:49,340 class that first semester when we were just investigating really, really old, popular cold 25 00:02:49,340 --> 00:02:55,660 cases. That was just kind of our first experience with cold cases. Getting our feet under us, 26 00:02:55,660 --> 00:03:02,060 getting a good foundation as to what we're going to be doing. That first semester was really eye 27 00:03:02,060 --> 00:03:08,300 opening. Even from that first semester, you started building those skills of talking to people in 28 00:03:08,300 --> 00:03:15,100 real life. That idea that there's life outside of school. There's life outside of high school, 29 00:03:15,100 --> 00:03:20,380 outside of the city that you live in. For most of your life, usually. It was a really cool experience. 30 00:03:20,380 --> 00:03:27,020 I mean, we made that connection to Angelina Hartman from Inside Crime. She's on national television 31 00:03:27,020 --> 00:03:32,460 doing national news on this stuff. She connected with us. We were working on a case together. 32 00:03:33,100 --> 00:03:38,700 You don't get that kind of experience anywhere else besides somewhere like this. Being able to 33 00:03:39,660 --> 00:03:45,180 be in a high school classroom, but be doing stuff out in the real world at the same time, talking to 34 00:03:45,180 --> 00:03:50,140 real people who know nothing about you, nothing about what you're doing until you tell them about 35 00:03:50,140 --> 00:03:58,220 it. It's a weird high school experience that is going to mature you quickly and build life skills 36 00:03:58,220 --> 00:04:04,060 that are going to last you a lifetime. I know one of the things that Matthew's group did is they were 37 00:04:04,060 --> 00:04:10,300 able to talk to a lot of experts, but even talk to an FBI agent. His experience was one where he 38 00:04:10,300 --> 00:04:16,460 got to speak to a lot of people in the field. That, to me, was a very big learning experience. 39 00:04:16,460 --> 00:04:20,620 One of the big things that I think I want people to get out of this class though is that you're 40 00:04:20,620 --> 00:04:27,340 talking about real life, real families, real trauma. How did that affect you? When we started 41 00:04:27,340 --> 00:04:32,460 getting into our case, the case of Karen Spencer, that's when things started to get personal and 42 00:04:32,460 --> 00:04:37,020 emotional. That one hit close to home for me because my dad actually went to high school 43 00:04:37,020 --> 00:04:42,780 with Karen Spencer. Speaking to, I mean, we got in contact with the FBI agent, which was super, 44 00:04:42,780 --> 00:04:48,140 super cool. Got to speak with Detective Bischoff from the Newtown Police Department. That was 45 00:04:48,140 --> 00:04:53,660 personal attention from me, but we also got to talk to Karen Spencer's parents, Karen Spencer's 46 00:04:53,660 --> 00:05:00,860 friends, Karen Spencer's siblings. Everyone that was blood or as close to blood as you can get to 47 00:05:00,860 --> 00:05:07,340 her, that knew her inside and out, you got to talk to them and understand the raw emotion and the 48 00:05:07,340 --> 00:05:13,820 effects that it had on them personally. And you can't help but sit there and feel for them and 49 00:05:13,820 --> 00:05:19,260 feel some of what they're feeling. You're never going to feel exactly what they feel, even if the 50 00:05:19,260 --> 00:05:22,860 same thing happens to you, you're going to feel different than they do about their situation. 51 00:05:22,860 --> 00:05:27,100 But being able to talk to them, the things they said, how they say things, the emotion you can 52 00:05:27,100 --> 00:05:31,420 hear all over the phone, the emotion you can see on their face if you're on the Zoom call or FaceTime 53 00:05:31,420 --> 00:05:36,460 call. Like I said, you can't help but sit there, not feel for them and want to do as much as you 54 00:05:36,460 --> 00:05:42,540 possibly can to help them in any way, shape or form. Even though you go into these things, 55 00:05:42,540 --> 00:05:50,300 there's a 99.9% chance you are going to come no closer than the police did originally to finding 56 00:05:50,300 --> 00:05:55,580 whoever did this horrible act. But just the fact that you were there trying to help them, and if 57 00:05:55,580 --> 00:06:00,780 you can find any small amount of new information that can lead anybody else down the right path, 58 00:06:00,780 --> 00:06:07,500 they're thankful. One of the things that I also want to do is have our alumni answer questions from 59 00:06:07,500 --> 00:06:10,940 someone that's going to come into class. And those of you that'll listen to our podcast, 60 00:06:10,940 --> 00:06:16,620 Ashley, my co-host, is coming into the class this year. I was going to have you ask him some 61 00:06:16,620 --> 00:06:21,500 questions about what you think you need for this class, what you should expect from it. 62 00:06:21,500 --> 00:06:26,460 Thanks. Okay, putting me on the spot. But I guess just kind of like thinking it through, 63 00:06:26,460 --> 00:06:30,460 I just wanted to ask personally what was like a day in the life of the class, because I know 64 00:06:30,460 --> 00:06:34,060 it's different now, obviously. We were talking about it before. I mean, you've changed the 65 00:06:34,060 --> 00:06:40,620 fabric of the class over the years anyways. But what was your experience? A day in the life, gosh, 66 00:06:40,620 --> 00:06:45,340 we, I was early in the morning. So you came in and kind of started to wake up, had your coffee, 67 00:06:45,340 --> 00:06:50,700 and you were like, all right, gotta get my brain moving. But those first couple days, you know, 68 00:06:50,700 --> 00:06:55,580 you're getting your feet under you. But once you get going, you come in, you and your group usually 69 00:06:55,580 --> 00:07:00,220 just hit the ground running. You guys know each other by now. You're in your group. You 70 00:07:00,220 --> 00:07:05,260 know how each other work, you know what each other's doing. So you walk in and there's normally not 71 00:07:05,260 --> 00:07:10,060 a whole lot of talking that happens. It is usually just you hear keyboards, or you hear 72 00:07:10,060 --> 00:07:15,660 paper shuffling. You really just get down to work. And you know, he might have something to say, 73 00:07:15,660 --> 00:07:20,700 here and there, he might have announcements, he might do something else going on. He might talk 74 00:07:20,700 --> 00:07:25,260 to another group about what they're doing, say, you can help. But really, it is you come in and 75 00:07:25,260 --> 00:07:29,260 you get to work. And if something comes up, you get to talk about it with your group. If nothing 76 00:07:29,260 --> 00:07:34,300 comes up that day at all, and you sit there silently searching the internet for an hour and a half the 77 00:07:34,300 --> 00:07:39,100 entire day, that's still a productive day because you were doing something that you were trying your 78 00:07:39,100 --> 00:07:45,260 best. There are other days where you come in and you are excited because you get to call someone 79 00:07:45,260 --> 00:07:50,220 very important to this case that is probably going to give you some cool information that you 80 00:07:50,220 --> 00:07:55,340 haven't learned yet. You get to have that phone call. And afterwards you come back in, you get to 81 00:07:55,340 --> 00:07:59,340 share all the information that you learned with him, you get it, and then you start and you are 82 00:07:59,340 --> 00:08:04,860 typing as fast as you possibly can on your computer new ideas and new information. By the time you're 83 00:08:04,860 --> 00:08:08,780 a fourth of the way through everything that you're thinking, that bell is ringing and you got to go 84 00:08:08,780 --> 00:08:16,300 to your next class. It's a rush some days and it is slow some days, but ultimately the entire 85 00:08:16,300 --> 00:08:24,060 experience on a day-to-day basis is a really, really nice break from your regular high school day. 86 00:08:24,060 --> 00:08:28,540 That's also one of the most exciting parts of your day because you know that you get to go do 87 00:08:28,540 --> 00:08:33,580 something you love and even if it is slow, even if it you haven't found the information in a week, 88 00:08:34,220 --> 00:08:37,900 that feeling of this could be the day keeps you going the whole time. 89 00:08:37,900 --> 00:08:43,340 Wow, well I wasn't expecting that much of an answer and I don't even know what to say back to that. 90 00:08:43,340 --> 00:08:46,700 I know we were talking about life experiences before and how you were saying you had a lot out 91 00:08:46,700 --> 00:08:53,100 of the class things that you can use outside, outside world kind of stuff. What are skills that 92 00:08:53,100 --> 00:08:59,500 you took away from the class that you weren't expecting to? I'm sure you've run into this before. 93 00:08:59,500 --> 00:09:04,140 I'm sure you've dealt with them. You don't have this fear. If you have a dentist appointment and you 94 00:09:04,140 --> 00:09:11,020 get a cancel, your parents will get you and say, call and cancel. You sit there and put it off for 95 00:09:11,020 --> 00:09:15,100 days before you actually have to call and cancel because it's a day before you're put and then 96 00:09:15,100 --> 00:09:23,340 everyone's going to be mad at you. Having to call someone that has a badge, that has security 97 00:09:23,340 --> 00:09:29,660 clearance, that has someone in their life that has tried to get passed away before, that's terrifying 98 00:09:29,660 --> 00:09:36,060 when that phone rings. Being able to just pick up a phone nowadays and call someone and talk to them 99 00:09:36,060 --> 00:09:40,460 or get the information that you need out of them or give them information that they didn't know 100 00:09:40,460 --> 00:09:47,500 they needed is an amazing skill. Calling people, being able to hear their voice and let them hear 101 00:09:47,500 --> 00:09:53,740 your voice is a skill that is lost in my opinion. This class is going to force you to do that. 102 00:09:53,740 --> 00:09:59,580 You have to call them. That is honestly the biggest life skill that I learned throughout this 103 00:10:00,380 --> 00:10:04,780 class. That's kind of the idea behind this is that you get out of it what you put into it. One thing 104 00:10:04,780 --> 00:10:11,580 that I agree with is that we have lost that ability to communicate. The whole premise of this case 105 00:10:11,580 --> 00:10:17,180 was based on the fact that Evan Fletcher and I had to do that and we had never done this before 106 00:10:17,180 --> 00:10:22,860 either. Now I have called people to do that but not in this situation so it is it is scary. 107 00:10:22,860 --> 00:10:38,780 All they can do is tell you now. Well I appreciate this and we do have a story that we're going to get into. 108 00:10:39,580 --> 00:10:45,660 What my sister was to me, she was the oldest. I'm the youngest of five. She was the oldest so she 109 00:10:45,660 --> 00:10:53,100 was and my mother was a single mother at the time so she was a more of a parent figure in my life. 110 00:10:53,100 --> 00:10:57,500 She was great as far as I'm concerned. I only knew her for a fraction of my life. I really would 111 00:10:57,500 --> 00:11:03,820 like to know what she would be like to me. My sister was she was a big influence on me. She was 112 00:11:06,380 --> 00:11:12,380 really open-minded. She was way ahead of her time, very progressive. It kind of molded a lot of my 113 00:11:12,380 --> 00:11:19,340 views in my life. Like I said, very open-minded. She was responsible for you know she was you know 114 00:11:19,980 --> 00:11:25,020 typical young adult. She screwed up things here and there but she was very responsible, 115 00:11:25,020 --> 00:11:29,980 looked out for her family, was compensating for you know lack of our father figure. 116 00:11:31,260 --> 00:11:36,220 She took she paid for karate lessons for Paul. She was always trying to pay for like 117 00:11:36,220 --> 00:11:43,180 art lessons for me. She was trying to be nurturing and she's very into art and music. Very kind-hearted, 118 00:11:44,060 --> 00:11:50,380 loving, was friends with everybody. I could say she was protective of us and all that stuff you 119 00:11:50,380 --> 00:11:58,860 hear about her is not my property. It's all 100% true. Those are the voices of three brothers who 120 00:11:58,860 --> 00:12:03,820 lost their role model way too early. They've been robbed of memories they never were able to create 121 00:12:03,820 --> 00:12:09,180 with their beloved sister Liz. Her free spirit was released from its earthly bonds as she rode 122 00:12:09,180 --> 00:12:23,420 her bike into the shadows of that dark foggy night. It's the early 90s and life was about 123 00:12:23,420 --> 00:12:27,740 having a good time and hanging out with family. As it was the height of cultural dance, clubs were 124 00:12:27,740 --> 00:12:32,380 very popular and it's considered the decade of pop culture, peace, and prosperity. For Elizabeth 125 00:12:32,380 --> 00:12:36,620 Falco, these made up her life. She was an advocate for women's rights and supporting her brother's 126 00:12:36,620 --> 00:12:41,820 educations. Elizabeth Falco had plans to go out with her brother and some mutual friends to the 127 00:12:41,820 --> 00:12:47,740 bank nightclub on September 14th 1990. Later that night, Liz was last seen leaving the bank on her 128 00:12:47,740 --> 00:12:53,980 bike. Two months later on November 14th 1990, a man walking his dog came across Liz's body in the 129 00:12:53,980 --> 00:13:02,540 Tuna Cummarsh next to the Philadelphia airport. Liz was born June 12th 1965 in Syracuse, New York. 130 00:13:02,540 --> 00:13:06,940 Her family later made their home in Cherry Hill, New Jersey where she graduated high school. 131 00:13:06,940 --> 00:13:11,980 Everyone who knew Liz described her as an extremely compassionate and caring woman. Throughout her life, 132 00:13:11,980 --> 00:13:16,860 she showed people that she would do anything for those she cared about. After graduating high school, 133 00:13:16,860 --> 00:13:20,460 she spent time in New York City. She moved to Philadelphia to receive her education at the 134 00:13:20,460 --> 00:13:25,580 Political College. While attending the university, she worked as a secretary at Dicton-born Law Firm. 135 00:13:25,580 --> 00:13:29,580 In her personal life, she had many friends. She was known for being trusting and seeing the best in 136 00:13:29,580 --> 00:13:34,220 people. At the time, she was dating Chris Bender. They had moved them together along with two other 137 00:13:34,220 --> 00:13:37,660 friends. She spent weekends going to whatever club was popular at the time. 138 00:13:41,820 --> 00:13:47,180 Our help was sought out by one of her childhood friends. After more than 30 years of her case 139 00:13:47,180 --> 00:13:51,500 being open without movement, she was searching for alternative routes of investigation. 140 00:13:51,500 --> 00:13:58,220 She sent us snooze papers and the autopsy report. I think that things like this are what makes 141 00:13:58,220 --> 00:14:04,140 this class so important and so valuable because obviously her friend was looking for ways to get 142 00:14:04,140 --> 00:14:10,060 the story out. And I think that this class and this podcast being a new experience that gets out to 143 00:14:10,060 --> 00:14:14,780 a wider variety of people through crime podcast listeners was just obviously a huge group of 144 00:14:14,780 --> 00:14:19,340 people. I think it's just really important that we're there to get the information out in a different 145 00:14:19,340 --> 00:14:24,700 way. Also, it's really important to think about how her as a friend, that information that she's 146 00:14:24,700 --> 00:14:29,100 trying to get out, it's invaluable to bring up these cases again to get them to the forefront of 147 00:14:29,100 --> 00:14:33,660 people's minds again because like it was talked about later, these departments get busy. People, 148 00:14:33,660 --> 00:14:37,980 things get overlooked, medical examiners, they have so much to do. So I think that it's really 149 00:14:37,980 --> 00:14:46,540 important to bring up these old cases and bring them back to people's minds. 150 00:14:49,500 --> 00:14:54,620 Newspapers noted how she took care of her brothers. We did our own initial research over who she was 151 00:14:54,620 --> 00:14:58,860 and we found that she was a confident young woman whose life was taken far too early. 152 00:14:59,740 --> 00:15:04,380 Liz would save up money to pay for her brother's education as she worked as a secretary at the 153 00:15:04,380 --> 00:15:10,140 law firm. She was kindhearted and determined. One of the main reasons cases like these go cold is 154 00:15:10,140 --> 00:15:14,540 because they go overlooked. Police departments become overwhelmed with crime in the area and the 155 00:15:14,540 --> 00:15:21,420 unsolved homicide of Elizabeth is the result of this. The autopsy report stated that the cause of 156 00:15:21,420 --> 00:15:26,940 death was inconclusive. She was found by a man simply walking his dog in the marsh. Her body 157 00:15:26,940 --> 00:15:31,900 was covered by a green plastic bag. The only things she was wearing were her t-shirt which was 158 00:15:31,900 --> 00:15:37,260 pulled over her head and socks and shoes. The report noted that she had strangulation marks. 159 00:15:37,260 --> 00:15:42,140 Unfortunately at the time she was found her body had decayed to a point where it was difficult to 160 00:15:42,140 --> 00:15:47,580 determine the cause of death. So from the location of her body being in the marsh, being somewhere 161 00:15:47,580 --> 00:15:52,060 just outside the city, the clothing that was on her body and the fact that she was covered up by a 162 00:15:52,060 --> 00:15:58,700 plastic bag, what does that tell you about our killer? I think just right off the bat information 163 00:15:58,700 --> 00:16:06,380 wise we can say like the intent of the killer was to not have her be found because me and Mr. 164 00:16:06,380 --> 00:16:13,740 Harp were unfamiliar with what a marsh was. I mean my idea of it was not what it is at all. So we 165 00:16:13,740 --> 00:16:18,940 kind of researched more into that and basically in simple terms it's just a grassy area with a 166 00:16:18,940 --> 00:16:25,260 bunch of water. This place in specific had a boardwalk going through it I'd say. It's like a pathway 167 00:16:25,260 --> 00:16:31,740 it was just wood but from there you could see how vast the area actually was. We didn't really have 168 00:16:31,740 --> 00:16:36,380 information on where exactly her body was found we just knew it was found there just based on like 169 00:16:36,380 --> 00:16:42,460 what the location looked like. You could say that obviously she wasn't intended to be found or her 170 00:16:42,460 --> 00:16:48,780 killer was experienced enough to know that this area would be hard to find her because they did 171 00:16:48,780 --> 00:16:54,060 say that she was extremely decomposed when they did find her which means that she was out there for 172 00:16:54,060 --> 00:17:03,740 a while. We could also say that it was personal just based on the way she was found also she was 173 00:17:03,740 --> 00:17:08,620 sexually assaulted basically her clothes were found. Yeah I agree I definitely think it was 174 00:17:08,620 --> 00:17:14,780 personal based on you know her shirt being pulled over her face like that. When a personal 175 00:17:14,780 --> 00:17:21,580 murder is committed like this the aftermath the killer looking at the victim usually doesn't like 176 00:17:21,580 --> 00:17:27,580 the the initial thought of what they just did so in order to cope with that you know turning the 177 00:17:27,580 --> 00:17:34,060 body over or putting something over their face it makes it less personal to them. Her not having 178 00:17:34,060 --> 00:17:40,940 many clothes on as well does suggest sexual assault at the very least it suggests a struggle or that 179 00:17:41,580 --> 00:17:47,660 the killer knew what they were doing enough to remove enough clothes to remove evidence. Like 180 00:17:47,660 --> 00:17:54,220 you said where she was found definitely didn't want to have the body found whoever did this. I 181 00:17:54,220 --> 00:17:59,660 don't know if we have gotten to the part where it says that it was suggested that she was strangled 182 00:17:59,660 --> 00:18:06,380 but the the mode of killing someone by strangulation was almost always there. I would say one thing 183 00:18:06,380 --> 00:18:13,580 that's strange to me is the garbage bag. Yes the crime itself does seem personal but the garbage 184 00:18:13,580 --> 00:18:19,340 bag almost makes me want to think that they did that on purpose to kind of embarrass her as if she 185 00:18:19,340 --> 00:18:28,140 was a piece of garbage which I think is a shame. As medical examiners are overworked and overwhelmed 186 00:18:28,140 --> 00:18:33,180 it results in situations like Lisbets. The reports note that they had lost a bullet in processing. 187 00:18:33,180 --> 00:18:38,060 How does that even happen? As I said it must have been because Philadelphia at the time had a record 188 00:18:38,060 --> 00:18:43,500 high of 500 homicides meaning that the ME must have had loads of other cases. They were trying 189 00:18:43,500 --> 00:18:47,900 to process many other cases at the same time and things ended up missing though it shouldn't have 190 00:18:47,900 --> 00:18:52,940 happened. So one of the big things that we talk about in forensic science is this particular 191 00:18:52,940 --> 00:18:58,620 situation. The ME even though they might be busy and they have a lot of cases they really have to 192 00:18:58,620 --> 00:19:03,980 focus on all the evidence that they collect from the body and in this particular case they said 193 00:19:03,980 --> 00:19:08,940 they lost it. Why is that such a problem and what are they supposed to do to make sure that doesn't 194 00:19:08,940 --> 00:19:13,900 happen? So basically what they're supposed to do is they keep a document and it's called a chain of 195 00:19:13,900 --> 00:19:19,340 custody which basically tells who took what, when they took it, why they took it, what they learned 196 00:19:19,340 --> 00:19:23,980 from it. It's supposed to just kind of keep track of the important information and evidence and 197 00:19:23,980 --> 00:19:30,220 obviously that was overlooked in this situation because losing something obviously means that it 198 00:19:30,220 --> 00:19:35,740 wasn't documented. Why is that so important? Obviously so that you don't lose stuff. Knowing who 199 00:19:35,740 --> 00:19:42,380 lost whenever it had gone missing that means that either they misplaced it and it is on them 200 00:19:42,380 --> 00:19:47,900 or someone didn't fill out a form and took it without telling anyone. Kind of big thing is if 201 00:19:47,900 --> 00:19:52,620 they do find a suspect that's one of the first things the defense team's going to look at is 202 00:19:52,620 --> 00:19:56,780 what happened to the chain of custody and where did this piece of evidence go because if that one's 203 00:19:56,780 --> 00:20:07,500 lost what do we really know about the other piece of evidence? 204 00:20:07,500 --> 00:20:11,900 We talked to the friend who shared the case with us, hopeful that someone would be able to further 205 00:20:11,900 --> 00:20:17,340 the case along since she had contacted cold case services. She told us about Elizabeth's life at 206 00:20:17,340 --> 00:20:21,820 the time for passing. Her boyfriend Chris Bender who has since passed seemed to place her in the 207 00:20:21,820 --> 00:20:26,860 wrong crowd. Bender was much older than Elizabeth. While she was working to support her siblings in 208 00:20:26,860 --> 00:20:32,540 any way she could, Bender was a supposed professional skateboarder. Elizabeth was responsible but at the 209 00:20:32,540 --> 00:20:36,860 time of her passing she had been influenced into doing drugs such as cocaine. She was hanging out 210 00:20:36,860 --> 00:20:43,180 with the friends of her boyfriend. Okay so this is as a parent when you talk to your kids about 211 00:20:43,900 --> 00:20:49,980 you gotta be careful that you hang with even when you get older and Chris seems to be somebody that 212 00:20:49,980 --> 00:21:00,380 was probably not in the best interest of this. I mean the fact that his career is being a skateboarder, 213 00:21:00,380 --> 00:21:06,860 I mean as much as like now in modern times that could be wonderful but like you have to think 214 00:21:06,860 --> 00:21:13,900 about the time period here and like that wasn't really considered a career and also we were thinking 215 00:21:13,900 --> 00:21:21,420 about since it's not considered a career how is he making the money to support this drug habit 216 00:21:21,420 --> 00:21:28,300 that he has. So I mean we theorized that Liz is obviously a successful woman working at a law firm 217 00:21:28,860 --> 00:21:34,620 so we just kind of theorized that maybe Liz there's a support system for him to support his drug 218 00:21:34,620 --> 00:21:43,260 habit aka using her money to kind of feed into bonding and stuff like that. There was one man 219 00:21:43,260 --> 00:21:49,020 that was also much older than Elizabeth. He went by an alias and was noted as suspicious by her friend. 220 00:21:49,020 --> 00:21:54,140 She also mentioned that the last time Elizabeth was seen was riding her bike down the street early 221 00:21:54,140 --> 00:21:59,500 in the morning. We needed to know more about this story so we searched for her family. Surprisingly 222 00:21:59,500 --> 00:22:05,740 there is a plethora of Falcos in the New Jersey area. We eventually found them through social media 223 00:22:05,740 --> 00:22:10,780 and reached out to the artist brother Mike Falco. He told us a large part of the story we had been 224 00:22:10,780 --> 00:22:15,900 missing that he was supposed to go out with Elizabeth that night. That this was a weekly thing. 225 00:22:15,900 --> 00:22:20,780 They went to whatever club was popular at the time however that particular night he had fallen asleep 226 00:22:20,780 --> 00:22:27,900 he didn't go to the bank nightclub the night he went missing. Quote on this day 30 years ago I last 227 00:22:27,900 --> 00:22:33,900 saw my sister Liz. It was a normal Thursday afternoon she lived in Philly but was at the family home 228 00:22:33,900 --> 00:22:39,500 for a bit that day. We made plans to meet at the bank nightclub later that night. I ended up falling 229 00:22:39,500 --> 00:22:44,220 asleep and did not meet her like we planned which had happened on other occasions so it was no biggie. 230 00:22:45,020 --> 00:22:51,100 Well that time it was a biggie. I am not blaming myself for anything but I often wonder if things 231 00:22:51,100 --> 00:22:57,340 might be different if I did meet her that night as planned. No one had seen heard or been in any 232 00:22:57,340 --> 00:23:02,860 contact with her for a couple of days which was extremely rare. It became excruciating as the 233 00:23:02,860 --> 00:23:08,540 days turned into weeks then in the months. After that amount of time it appeared she was not coming 234 00:23:08,540 --> 00:23:13,980 back. Her body was discovered confirming what no one wanted to believe. She was not coming back. 235 00:23:14,940 --> 00:23:19,180 Everyone just hoped that she'd just show up or be on the other line when you picked up a phone 236 00:23:19,180 --> 00:23:25,820 call but unfortunately she was gone. Anyone who knew Liz would tell you how sweet, smart, 237 00:23:25,820 --> 00:23:31,580 pretty, kind and caring of a person she was. I miss her dearly and wish she was here now. 238 00:23:32,700 --> 00:23:37,260 Mom would be so happy to have her here and I know my brothers have the same feeling I do for Liz. 239 00:23:37,260 --> 00:23:41,900 She would have been the best aunt to her nieces and nephews. I'm sure the cool aunt. 240 00:23:42,460 --> 00:23:47,980 Making sure she was a big part of their lives. Loving them, spoiling them but more importantly 241 00:23:47,980 --> 00:23:52,380 teaching them caring and goodness towards others. They would love having her with them 242 00:23:53,020 --> 00:23:58,540 but probably not as much as she would have wanted to be there for them. I honestly think many people's 243 00:23:58,540 --> 00:24:03,980 lives would be different in a good way if Liz was still here. Many other people would still be here 244 00:24:03,980 --> 00:24:09,260 if she was. The pain of days is as fresh as the day she was taken from us 30 years ago. 245 00:24:09,980 --> 00:24:16,940 I love and miss you dearly, Liz." Talking to him we found out that in the original investigation 246 00:24:16,940 --> 00:24:21,420 it was suspected that Elizabeth was on her way to visit her cocaine dealer the night she went missing. 247 00:24:22,220 --> 00:24:27,180 The idea was that her dealer had wanted something other than money in return. She refused and in 248 00:24:27,180 --> 00:24:32,220 the heat of the moment her dealer had killed her. Her boyfriend may have been involved in disposing 249 00:24:32,220 --> 00:24:36,860 her body in the marsh. The police had originally investigated the boyfriend and so did we. 250 00:24:37,660 --> 00:24:41,900 We asked the eldest brother if we could set up a meeting with the rest of Elizabeth's siblings. 251 00:24:41,900 --> 00:24:46,380 We think it's important to understand how everybody feels about the case and what they know from it. 252 00:24:46,380 --> 00:24:50,460 Elizabeth's youngest brother was 13 and the others were not much older than that. They 253 00:24:50,460 --> 00:24:54,380 unfortunately didn't get to experience growing up with her and having her involved in their 254 00:24:54,380 --> 00:24:59,260 lives as much as they should have. But what they do remember is how caring she was, how she loved 255 00:24:59,260 --> 00:25:04,300 to dance and listen to music, how she always did what she wanted and how she would stand up for what 256 00:25:04,300 --> 00:25:08,940 she believed in. Her brothers had known about Chris Bender. He was much older than Elizabeth. 257 00:25:08,940 --> 00:25:14,460 The eldest saw him as a want-to-be-cool guy. He had Elizabeth involved in drugs but she was 258 00:25:14,460 --> 00:25:19,100 responsible and never became an addict. She knew that she had to save her money for more important 259 00:25:19,100 --> 00:25:23,980 things like taking care of her younger brothers. Bender was the type of guy that was just always 260 00:25:23,980 --> 00:25:28,540 there. The relationship wasn't the strongest but it also was on the brink of ending. They were 261 00:25:28,540 --> 00:25:32,860 living together but it just so happens that they were. The situation was more of Elizabeth living 262 00:25:32,860 --> 00:25:39,340 with a couple of other friends. After Elizabeth's death, Bender went on to become an addict and 263 00:25:39,340 --> 00:25:43,580 abused narcotics. He was known for doing drugs and wandering the streets at night. 264 00:25:47,020 --> 00:25:54,380 So the unusual thing that I heard in there was that she did drugs but was responsible enough 265 00:25:54,380 --> 00:26:02,860 not to be an addict. Usually when people do drugs it is just common knowledge that they are a drug 266 00:26:02,860 --> 00:26:07,660 addict. Just never really heard of that you do drugs but you're not an addict. Why was she doing 267 00:26:07,660 --> 00:26:16,860 the drugs in the first place? Was it trying to fit in? Was it something else personal, health related? 268 00:26:16,860 --> 00:26:21,500 Was there money behind it? You know, what was her reason? 269 00:26:21,500 --> 00:26:27,260 So that just kind of goes back to Liz's relationship with Chris. Obviously like her friend group 270 00:26:27,260 --> 00:26:34,540 included him so we just kind of theorized that the whole friend group was just like they hung out 271 00:26:34,540 --> 00:26:43,020 and they did drugs like they partied. We thought that maybe while Liz was alive she kind of watched 272 00:26:43,020 --> 00:26:50,380 over Chris and watched over his drug use and kind of like kept him from going overboard on his drugs 273 00:26:50,380 --> 00:26:55,340 and so once she passed he just kind of fell off the deep end fell into the drugs and just 274 00:26:56,380 --> 00:27:02,700 didn't turn back. This unfortunately got him killed a few years ago walking through an expressway 275 00:27:02,700 --> 00:27:07,180 Bender hadn't been hit by an off-duty police officer. After speaking with the rest of her 276 00:27:07,180 --> 00:27:10,460 run-ins we agreed that Chris was not solely responsible for her death. 277 00:27:12,860 --> 00:27:18,860 In hopes of gaining information from the original investigation we attempted to file a FOIA. 278 00:27:18,860 --> 00:27:23,740 Most cases we work on in the course attempt to do so but for us it was a bit more complicated. 279 00:27:25,180 --> 00:27:30,060 The state of Pennsylvania is different from those states. One cannot directly file a FOIA with a 280 00:27:30,060 --> 00:27:34,780 specific police department. Instead there are many other laws to help the public gain access to 281 00:27:34,780 --> 00:27:41,100 such information. Through research we found the right to know law. They also have many forms to 282 00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:45,980 gain access to a police incident report so we submitted as many as we could so that we could 283 00:27:45,980 --> 00:27:50,940 have a chance to look at the work the original detectives did on the case. Unfortunately we 284 00:27:50,940 --> 00:27:56,300 were denied anything by the state of Pennsylvania. Since we are not next to kin, a lawyer speaking 285 00:27:56,300 --> 00:28:00,700 on the behalf or anything of the sorts they have the right to deny a request. This is why we spoke 286 00:28:00,700 --> 00:28:06,060 to Elizabeth's siblings. We explained the process of what we did and what they can do. Since they 287 00:28:06,060 --> 00:28:09,980 are directly related to her they should be able to see the work the detectives have done on the 288 00:28:09,980 --> 00:28:16,780 case and the work they have done in the past 30 years. So in the section you hear them talk about 289 00:28:16,780 --> 00:28:21,100 a FOIA request we've talked about that in almost all of our podcasts because that's one of the 290 00:28:21,100 --> 00:28:25,980 ways that we get our information and that's the Freedom of Information Act. What's the unfortunate 291 00:28:25,980 --> 00:28:31,740 part about this is that FOIAs are different in every state and that can cause some serious problems 292 00:28:31,740 --> 00:28:38,700 when you're trying to find information. Yeah I think especially on this one we were just talking 293 00:28:38,700 --> 00:28:43,420 to Mr. Hubbard about it. He says like you have to get a lawyer and there's a bunch of these steps 294 00:28:43,420 --> 00:28:50,860 and it just feels like the way that it was set up it was just inconvenience the person that's asking 295 00:28:51,500 --> 00:28:56,620 to kind of like try to avoid it. So I mean it feels like they're doing it on purpose. They're 296 00:28:56,620 --> 00:29:03,740 obviously not because the information that you are requesting is private but just the way that 297 00:29:03,740 --> 00:29:09,180 it's set up especially in the state that we're requesting from it just feels like such an 298 00:29:09,180 --> 00:29:14,060 inconvenience that it's not even worth. It's not worth the process. I think the biggest thing is 299 00:29:14,060 --> 00:29:21,980 that there are not enough people like us trying to do their best to help. A lot of people I would 300 00:29:21,980 --> 00:29:27,980 imagine that submit FOIAs to police departments and agencies like this are just trying to get 301 00:29:27,980 --> 00:29:33,180 information out of them and ultimately you can see why that would be a security concern. 302 00:29:36,060 --> 00:29:41,020 We attempted to contact the original detectives from the case. Her friend that introduced the 303 00:29:41,020 --> 00:29:45,900 case to us sent us his card that she received years ago. We found that one of them works for the 304 00:29:45,900 --> 00:29:51,100 security at a university and the other works for the Philadelphia police department. We are still 305 00:29:51,100 --> 00:29:55,660 working on getting in contact with them. Before they got her body, family and friends had put 306 00:29:55,660 --> 00:30:00,860 up posters with the $2,000 cash reward with any verified information that leads to them finding 307 00:30:00,860 --> 00:30:05,180 Elizabeth. They were hopeful that she just happened to disappear but after she missed her 308 00:30:05,180 --> 00:30:10,140 youngest brother's birthday the family knew something was wrong. Without Elizabeth, her mother 309 00:30:10,140 --> 00:30:14,540 had to hold her family together. She lost her job at Sears because she was in distress after 310 00:30:14,540 --> 00:30:19,340 losing her daughter. A support group for murder victims families helped their situation a little 311 00:30:19,340 --> 00:30:23,660 but it was still difficult for her to believe that her daughter was gone. So this is the 312 00:30:23,660 --> 00:30:28,780 unfortunate part about all these cases. Many people when they listen to these crime scene stories 313 00:30:28,780 --> 00:30:33,660 and things you hear on podcasts they think that the victim of the crime is the only one that's 314 00:30:33,660 --> 00:30:39,020 affected by it. When in reality there are many victims that go along with this especially family 315 00:30:39,020 --> 00:30:44,860 members who were depending on somebody like Liz to help them get through their financial problems. 316 00:30:44,860 --> 00:30:50,380 Take care of a family that really needed that figure in their family. Yeah I think this is a 317 00:30:50,380 --> 00:30:57,740 great example of what I had touched on early on in our conversation of you get that real world 318 00:30:57,740 --> 00:31:03,180 experience of seeing and hearing and feeling that raw emotion that comes from these families. 319 00:31:03,980 --> 00:31:08,780 The interview we had with Paul, John and Mike Falco really made this case hit home for us. 320 00:31:09,500 --> 00:31:14,140 We try hard to understand how families feel in these situations but unless you lived it 321 00:31:14,140 --> 00:31:19,020 there's just no way you understand. You just feel their emotions but sometimes you just don't know 322 00:31:19,020 --> 00:31:23,980 what to say because you know it's not going to make them feel any better. During our conversation 323 00:31:23,980 --> 00:31:28,220 with Liz's brothers a reporter for the New Jersey pen and a friend of the family Matt 324 00:31:28,220 --> 00:31:33,740 Scofallis asked the brothers how they felt about talking with us and how it's affected their lives 325 00:31:33,740 --> 00:31:41,580 since her passing. Falco guys do you have thoughts on just what this means to you to be going through 326 00:31:41,580 --> 00:31:47,100 this again? I mean I you lose a sibling you never that never leaves your heart and never lose your 327 00:31:47,100 --> 00:31:53,340 mind and certainly growing up is different and adulthood is different but what are what kinds 328 00:31:53,340 --> 00:31:59,740 of feelings are you processing being involved in this again? Well my feelings have changed over 329 00:32:00,380 --> 00:32:06,860 time it actually gotten worse I've gotten more angry I think especially now that I have two girls 330 00:32:08,620 --> 00:32:14,300 but the thing that I always felt the only thing I could ever do was try to take the positive 331 00:32:14,300 --> 00:32:23,100 away from it and that was to basically just love life love everything. I hold that but it gets tougher 332 00:32:23,100 --> 00:32:33,020 and tougher I feel that I grow more of course over the years as a resentment of it and I'm not 333 00:32:33,020 --> 00:32:37,900 certain whether this is right or wrong just ask the question of being honest. I think you're great 334 00:32:37,900 --> 00:32:44,780 yeah if you said this would help you it like is it that important to you like if it got do you feel 335 00:32:44,780 --> 00:32:50,700 like it would change some of those feelings you might have? If there was closure yes but I would 336 00:32:50,700 --> 00:32:58,620 it would almost be a faith restored and humanity type feeling I guess. No pressure girls. Well no 337 00:32:58,620 --> 00:33:04,380 I mean you know what you being women actually put his into it for that's one reason why I asked that 338 00:33:04,380 --> 00:33:12,940 question is it so lopsided you know here you are you know Liz would be she would be I know this 339 00:33:12,940 --> 00:33:17,900 sounds silly but she would be happier that two women would solve the case than two men you know 340 00:33:19,820 --> 00:33:25,020 I mean she probably wouldn't matter either way but the point is is that you know that's something 341 00:33:25,020 --> 00:33:31,340 she fought for she was very passionate about it and even today you see why she was passionate about 342 00:33:31,340 --> 00:33:36,060 she wasn't had her time and she did damn well where this was going where it has been 343 00:33:36,060 --> 00:33:41,660 right and it just seems like we're in the same place today so yeah I think Matt if there was 344 00:33:41,660 --> 00:33:47,100 some movement or some type of closure it would be great to have my mother witness that before she 345 00:33:47,100 --> 00:33:57,500 passes it doesn't you know fix everything in our lives but it does kind of put us to where we can 346 00:33:57,500 --> 00:34:03,500 grasp and it's attainable our minds don't have to wander in a certain direction of what could have 347 00:34:03,500 --> 00:34:08,460 been or what would have been we would know how to we'd have something tangible to deal with 348 00:34:08,460 --> 00:34:20,620 in process sometimes. Sorry. I'm sorry. That was a great thing. For me I just have always had 349 00:34:20,620 --> 00:34:27,580 right from what happened like guilt like I wasn't out fucking pounding this excuse my language I 350 00:34:27,580 --> 00:34:33,900 wasn't out like pounding the pavement getting leads and you know like I feel like there's more 351 00:34:33,900 --> 00:34:40,460 that I could have done and there is I mean there always is but I just have lived with guilt my 352 00:34:40,460 --> 00:34:50,460 whole life from it so it would help alleviate some of that. Kind of to John's point about guilt 353 00:34:50,460 --> 00:34:54,620 you know I was I was supposed to be out with her that night and she disappeared and we were supposed 354 00:34:54,620 --> 00:34:58,700 to be dancing and we were supposed to meet up at the bank and I fell asleep that night. 355 00:34:59,820 --> 00:35:05,180 You know so I don't I'm not blaming myself it's something bad was going to happen I'm sure it 356 00:35:05,180 --> 00:35:11,100 still happened but I just always wonder if I'd gone out with her that night it's something 357 00:35:11,100 --> 00:35:19,020 would have been different something would have wouldn't happen. You know that's I don't blame 358 00:35:19,020 --> 00:35:29,500 myself but it's just been very hard with that part of my mind and it's gone on for so long it's not 359 00:35:29,500 --> 00:35:38,140 that we just all accepted it you know let it go you know we can look at her every day but without 360 00:35:38,140 --> 00:35:50,780 the support to get things going it's just more destructive trying to fight to get truth and 361 00:35:50,780 --> 00:35:58,460 not get anywhere than to just kind of accept it for what it is and and hope at some point something's 362 00:35:58,460 --> 00:36:04,860 going to happen and hopefully we're at this point where something might happen or even like Paul said 363 00:36:04,860 --> 00:36:12,220 even if we don't if it's not something we don't get full closure we know that we're doing what we can 364 00:36:14,060 --> 00:36:19,500 you know to help help everyone involved and not only the executive but everyone who feels for her 365 00:36:20,620 --> 00:36:27,500 always been affected by her life. I mean it's it's a positive there's a positive aspect to it no 366 00:36:27,500 --> 00:36:35,500 matter what that just the fact that you guys care is like is is uh makes me feel good. And like we 367 00:36:35,500 --> 00:36:44,300 keep saying she would just be so happy knowing that she's helping you girls out with your education 368 00:36:44,300 --> 00:36:51,340 and your lives through her death you know that's you know she could care less if it gets solved but 369 00:36:51,340 --> 00:36:58,940 you guys are gaining from her loss. As you hear the brothers talk about how we're going to bring 370 00:36:58,940 --> 00:37:04,380 some closure to the family if we or someone could solve Liz's case it sometimes really hurts to know 371 00:37:04,380 --> 00:37:10,700 that maybe we're not going to be able to do that. Our goal is that maybe our participation in the 372 00:37:10,700 --> 00:37:16,060 search for truth will hit the ears of someone who could give that information that will turn the tide 373 00:37:16,060 --> 00:37:23,740 in the falcos favor. Elizabeth was a kind person with a soft heart she would speak about wanting 374 00:37:23,740 --> 00:37:29,820 to become a therapist or a lawyer she knew her purpose in life was to help people. From a report 375 00:37:29,820 --> 00:37:33,900 from an interview with her mother she remembered that though Elizabeth wasn't financially stable 376 00:37:33,900 --> 00:37:39,260 she took her youngest brother's school supply shopping two weeks later she was gone. Family and 377 00:37:39,260 --> 00:37:43,980 friends have done as much as they can to figure out what happened to Elizabeth. For them Elizabeth 378 00:37:43,980 --> 00:37:48,780 was everything she was the older sister mom's favorite and best friend they were desperately 379 00:37:48,780 --> 00:37:53,500 hoping that anyone will help them solve her case. As her mother approaches 80 they would like to give 380 00:37:53,500 --> 00:37:58,620 her some closure. Her brothers are hopeful that her work will aid the Philadelphia police department 381 00:37:58,620 --> 00:38:06,220 in furthering their investigation into Elizabeth's case. Cases like this are extremely difficult 382 00:38:06,220 --> 00:38:10,220 because she randomly disappeared and she was found in a public area but a secluded one. 383 00:38:10,220 --> 00:38:14,620 Unfortunately we have a vague outline of what actually happened that night and who exactly 384 00:38:14,620 --> 00:38:19,660 she came in contact with. After 32 years in a large city with a large crime rate her cases 385 00:38:19,660 --> 00:38:23,900 fall into the darkness of a file cabinet somewhere. We hope that sharing this information on our 386 00:38:23,900 --> 00:38:28,220 platform can bring information to the forefront and possibly get her case back on the radar of 387 00:38:28,220 --> 00:38:33,340 the police department. Thank you for joining us for this episode of Cold Case MHS Monsters and 388 00:38:33,340 --> 00:38:38,940 Demons Freed Spirit. I would like to thank Mike, Paul and John Falco for allowing us to get to 389 00:38:38,940 --> 00:38:44,540 know you and Liz. Your willingness to speak with us is greatly appreciated. Thank you to 390 00:38:44,540 --> 00:38:49,260 Massika Fouls for being a part of the interview. Your insights as a reporter greatly enhanced 391 00:38:49,260 --> 00:38:56,140 our experience with you and the Falco family. I will include Matt's links to the show notes for 392 00:38:56,140 --> 00:39:01,260 the listeners to see the articles Matt has written. I would like to thank Riley and Nancy for all the 393 00:39:01,260 --> 00:39:07,740 hard work that they did on Liz's case. She would greatly appreciate your efforts. Thank you to Matthew 394 00:39:07,740 --> 00:39:12,700 Poteet for returning and sharing his thoughts and always thank you to my co-host Ashton. You have 395 00:39:12,700 --> 00:39:18,380 made this show so much better since you joined me. The artwork for this podcast was created by 396 00:39:18,380 --> 00:39:24,380 former student Emma Holbert. The theme song Cold Case is by former student Jenna Brandt who has 397 00:39:24,380 --> 00:39:30,780 several songs out on most music streaming media. At the end of this podcast we will debut the new 398 00:39:30,780 --> 00:39:36,700 theme song for season three to come out this spring. The song is Believe Me by current student 399 00:39:36,700 --> 00:39:42,700 Alexa Doll. Tune in next time when Caitlyn Markham just disappears. 400 00:40:07,020 --> 00:40:17,580 But instead you attack you got me out of my bed. Won't go and solve this time won't catch you and 401 00:40:17,580 --> 00:40:23,580 Your crimes will be shining light on you. 402 00:40:23,580 --> 00:40:39,580 You, you, you, you, you, you, you. 403 00:40:39,580 --> 00:40:44,580 I saw you acting face and face, 404 00:40:44,580 --> 00:40:49,580 but you didn't expect what they meant. 405 00:40:49,580 --> 00:40:54,580 You lost your, am I fair? 406 00:40:54,580 --> 00:41:03,580 We will make them aware it was you, said. 407 00:41:03,580 --> 00:41:08,580 You said you had my back, but instead you attacked. 408 00:41:08,580 --> 00:41:12,580 You got me out of my head. 409 00:41:12,580 --> 00:41:14,580 You won't go and swallow this time. 410 00:41:14,580 --> 00:41:37,580 You won't catch you and your crimes will be shining light on you. 411 00:41:37,580 --> 00:41:42,580 And don't even try to win it back, 412 00:41:42,580 --> 00:41:49,580 because you lost it way before then. 413 00:41:49,580 --> 00:41:54,580 You said you had my back, but instead you attacked. 414 00:41:54,580 --> 00:41:58,580 You got me out of my head. 415 00:41:58,580 --> 00:42:00,580 You won't go and swallow this time. 416 00:42:00,580 --> 00:42:06,580 You won't catch you and your crimes will be shining light on you. 417 00:42:06,580 --> 00:42:23,580 On you.