Welcome back to Toys on Tap. This week we have an incredible artist coming on,
Depressed Monsters, one of my favorite artists. You can see the journey in here,
the ups and downs in Ryan's voice as he talks about how the brand started in the
depths and how it continued through mountains and valleys and has continued
to shine. It'd be a light for many of those around it and has been so good to
see grow. If you want to jump on and support this podcast you can rate and
review. Like, subscribe, wherever you get podcasts. You can throw us a follow on
social media at Toys on Tap. Send us a review that tells me how much you love
Toys on Tap. Now let's get to this week's episode of Toys on Tap.
Yo, yo, yo. What's up, Depressed Monsters in the house. What's up, how you doing? Good, dude, I'm so stoked to have you.
Eurman's right in the background. Is this a studio? Yeah, this is my studio. I've been
packaging orders today so it's a little messy but this is the studio. Dude, so sick.
Thanks, man. Yeah, I'm glad to be here. This is awesome. I'm really, really stoked
to talk to you today. What's cool is you aren't the typical artist that fits on
because you do murals and shirts and all kinds of stuff and then you
started making toys but I'm stoked because the toys are dope. You made stuffed
animals and then just tracking your trajectory and how it
shifted a little bit from 2015 to like just clothing to now all of this empire
style stuff. It's so sick to see it. Dude, that's like, man, thank you. It's
weird to hear it from outside my own brain, you know? So like it's cool to
see that you kind of looked through it and saw that. I think like the toy
thing, like I just started as a fan of Toys, you know? And like that was the big
reason why I wanted to even do any of this stuff is just because I have always
loved and collected toys and so it was cool to, you know, try it on my own and
all that stuff. But yeah, thanks, man. That's super nice of you. I do want to
dive into your love and desire for toys, obviously. This is toys. Thank you. But
before we do that, please tell everyone who you are, what you do, plug yourself.
Yeah, heck yeah. So my name is Ryan Bronti. I go by Depressed Monsters. It started
in 2012, basically is what I say that the, you know, the brand was born just
because that's when my grandfather passed. And that's when I started making
little self portraits as a way to cope. And so I was doing like little
watercolor paintings, you know, like I collected art. I loved art. I was really
big into like the Mondo scene. So I was collecting like Ollie Moss, Mike Mitchell,
Tyler Stow and then I started collecting a lot of oba, stuff like that, right? And
so, you know, everybody that, I think everybody that loves art and collects
art eventually wants to play around with it, I think, like for the most part. And
so when my grandfather passed, I was like, you know, I kind of want to just like
express myself in ways I've never really expressed myself. And so, you know, I've
always drawn since I was a kid or whatever. And so I was like, I'm just
going to start doing this as a way to just see my feelings out there. And this
before I knew about art therapy and all that stuff, right? And so I started
doing these little like universal monsters with these little uniform bodies and
they were called depressed monsters. And I was like, these are, these are helping
me like get out of bed and like focus on my day and all that stuff. And then
eventually after like, I think maybe like a couple months of me just not leaving
the house, getting really dark, this little Yeti came out and it was, it was
like furry and approachable. And I was like, okay, no, that's how I'm feeling
like that's, it's not these universal monsters or this or that, like I'm
feeling like this little fuzzball right here where I'm like, I don't know how to
deal with these emotions. Like, I, you know, whatever it is. And so it was, it was
a lifesaver literally, like I started leaving the house, I started going to
coffee shops, I started just really focusing on waking up every morning and
drawing this little monster. And eventually, you know, I put it online and
people started really, you know, liking it and saying, oh, that is cool. Like that
means something to me, I can see in the eyes that you're going through something
like all that stuff. And I was like, okay, this is neat how someone can see my art
and see how I'm feeling. So anyway, long story short, I put it on a batch of
shirts, the first batch sold out and I was like, okay, like maybe there's
something here. And so all these years later through murals, toys, partnerships,
all these different things, we're now on Hot Topic where I donate to their Hot
Topic Foundation. I've donated to mental health agencies for the past, you know,
damn near 10 years at this point. Trevor Project, Jed Foundation, I've worked with
and I just really try to give back and be a conscious capitalist, you know, because
unfortunately, most people want to hoard things and I'm like, no, if I can help
people, then that's, that's where I think the real power is in all this stuff. And
you know, I think people get it and people get it tattooed now, which is a huge
compliment. And I don't know, it's just been, it's been a wild journey. And I'm
always happy to, you know, kind of recant it and look back and figure out how
I've gotten here, which is I think always important because I'm always like, I'm
the kind of guy like looks forward all the time. So it is nice to kind of look
back sometimes. It's cool because I think, you know, it's hard to being in the
toy scene so much of it feels like it's without a purpose. Like for me, there's
a purpose. But making my own characters and stuff sometimes it just like me
messing around. But when I look at you and like see the progression from then
until now, art with a purpose is what comes to mind. And we don't find that
that often, because the purpose, your purpose is like outward so much of our
art with a purpose is inward. But man, you are killing it with that.
Thank you so much. That really means a lot. It's, it's, it's tough because like I'm in,
I'm in the, I'm in the weeds every day, right? And so like it's easy for me to like
get down to myself like, Oh, I should have done this. I should have got up and
painted this. I should have done that. Like, you know how it is as an artist. Like,
you're always beating yourself up and like, Oh, I should have done this different
and all that stuff. So it is nice to hear, you know, that the path is clear or
whatever. But yeah, it's been, it's been interesting. I think from a toy
perspective, I released my first toy in 2013 or 2014, I think it was. And so, you
know, the designer toy scene was so different back then. It isn't like this
hype beast culture that it is now where, you know, people are collecting things to
resell. And like people really just love to buy toys. And I fell in love with that,
with that love of, of collecting, right? And so, you know, I've always collected
toys. I've always collected, you know, whether it's like Kenner Star Wars,
Star Wars stuff or like, I was really big into like just 90 stuff for a long time.
And when, as soon as I went to my first designer con, which was 2011, I exhibited
with a friend of mine, we were called the 80s kids, we did all 80s inspired stuff.
And 2011 was the first designer con. And so we were just making stuff of like,
putting pop culture stuff together, basically bootleg stuff, you know, which is
why I'm so ingrained in the bootleg scene. And it was super fun. And ever since that
first designer con that I went to, and I just started seeing what the scene was and
just seeing what Mishka's doing or seeing what, you know, jerk face or whoever was doing it.
And, you know, meeting John from Spanky Stokes and like all these different people or whatever,
I started realizing just how nice everybody was and how cool everybody is. And I was like,
I want to be a part of this. Like this is my, these are my kind of weirdos, right? And so,
when I stopped doing the 80s kids thing and I started really focusing on my own character,
it was really important to me to get it right. Because if I wanted to enter the scene as a
visual artist, I wanted it to be respectful of the scene. And I also wanted to make something
that I was super, super proud of. And so I waited, you know, a couple of years before I was, I was
comfortable. And I actually worked with, there's a really famous artist from, I believe Singapore,
maybe it's Philippines named Wetworks. And I'm a huge fan of Wetworks. I've always been a huge
fan of Wetworks. And he sculpted my first toy. And so it was like this huge win from me where I
was like, damn, like, I love this artist so much. And like the respect must be mutual because he
doesn't really collab with people that much. And so it was really sick to just get that thing in
the mail for the first time and go, okay, this shit is real now, like I'm holding it in like 3D.
And I think that's the difference with toys besides like a mural or whatever, like you get to
actually hold it and play with it in the physical space and put it places. And I just think that's
so important with art. Yeah, you know, it's cool. The on the flip side, it's hard to convince people
that aren't in the scene that those toys are art. Like that's right. That's the reverse, right? And
I have toys in my office, they're like, it's crazy, they're like this, and then I have like a shelf
being behind me that are just resin toys. And it's hard to explain. So I work with teenagers,
and they'll come in and they're like, Hey, like, what do you just, what do you do? Do you play
with these during the day? Or it's like, no, I don't. But what's cool is that earthworm gym
figure that's in its packaging perfect on the wall. I met the guy that sculpted that. And so
like, oh, that's cool. So it's like, that's the the tie for me is like, this is art, not for you,
but for me, this is art also nostalgia. Oh, for I mean, the world victims of nostalgia,
at this point, right? Like it's almost becoming like this weird, like, it's almost like a bad
acid trip at this point, because it's like this loop of like nostalgia feeding into it's like
that snake that's eating itself. Like there's no way to get away from him because now everything
being made is based in nostalgia because it's like, I have this, I think I said this on another
podcast, but like, I feel like nostalgia is the most dangerous drug that we have in society right
now, because it's not allowing us to push forward artistically. It's not allowing us to create new
ideas and have new IPs and all that stuff. Like, I can't tell you how many times that I exhibit.
And somebody comes up and says, what is this from? I go, it's just, it's just from my brain.
Like, I, you know, it's just from my brain. And they go, Oh, but like, is it from is it a cartoon?
Or is it I go, no, it's like, I drew it, you know, like, and people just aren't used to it,
you know, and like, and that's fine. Like I'm not trying to change the scene or like whatever,
I'm just trying to fit in the scene. But it is hard to have like your own character and try to
market your own character without relying on any kind of pop culture or anything like that,
because people just don't want to buy something they don't know from like another IP. And so
it's crazy. Like, I'm doing LA Comic Con in December. And this is my first convention since,
like designer con like five years ago. And I think it's going to be the first time that that
Eurman's kind of playing in pop culture. And I'm excited about it. Like, I've been so scared of it
for so long. And I've been because because my roots are in bootleg, like, I've been scared to bring
my character back into the bootleg realm. And I've come up with a really cool idea, I think,
where he can kind of play in it that I'm stoked for. And it's going to be fun to kind of work in
nostalgia again, just from a personal like artistic standpoint, just to do it conventions
and stuff like that. But I'm stoked on it. Yeah. You know, what you're talking about is so crazy.
Like we it is the thing that kills, but also drive like when we when we go to designer con,
a lot of the resin toy designers work with a guy named Dove and
and I know Dove. Yeah, it do. Dove is so sick. I wish I could say how much I love that guy.
But like down this alley, all these different artists and it's this resin alley area and they
got like, oh, we've made this version of, I don't know, some Ewok that is whatever it's crystal,
it has stuff in it. Or like we've made this toy with ties to playmates or it looks like this, it has
and it's awesome because people will buy the things that they recognize and love and all those
things. But you're right on introducing new IP. Because man, it is like, like it becomes crickets
at some point, because people don't know what to do with new and they try to continually connect
it to something they can relate with, which I think is a human problem. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
And I think it's like a social media problem at this point, too. I think that the internet was
the worst thing that ever happened to art. You know, as for all the perks that have happened
for being able to put your work out there, it has made it so, you know, people, there's just,
you know, I don't want to go down that rabbit hole, but people can be very negative about it,
or people have their opinions on it is what it is. Luckily, I have a pretty positive
atmosphere around my brand that for the most part, I haven't found a lot of negativity. In fact,
most negativity that I find is from other artists. Like, I'm such a collaborative person. And like,
for the most part, the strife in my career is from other artists trying to make my career harder.
And it's like, why would you do that? If you know the struggle that comes with making something,
why would you try to make it worse off for somebody else? Like, but that's a whole side
note side conversation. But the thing with Dove and like what you make and all these things,
like, I love it so much because it is it is so art focused. It's a it's a love language and it's a
love letter to things that we all love. Like, it's so different than what other people are doing.
And it's like, I don't know, like we have, I'm sometimes on this Twitch channel
called hot dad radio. And we have dove on it when he's doing his dove con or DK econ, it should be
called dove con, let's be real. And so he'll come on and show all the toys and stuff like that.
And I just love how geeked out he gets like, and I mean, dove getting geeked out is pretty
monotone. But you know, as geeked out as he gets, you can see the excitement, you know, and he lights
up when he sees certain things. And just the way he talks about it is so different than other
curators. Like, it's just, I don't know, I love don't have the pieces as well. I just think he's a
very special person. Yeah, I think what's crazy. And I mean, we're going to dive back into you.
But as a like a last thing that I think about is like, I don't know how to convey because so many
people are in this scene, right? Like it's increased even since I jumped in in 2020, it's like,
tripled, quadrupled, whatever. There's not a way to convey to each one of them like, man,
you are bringing out my inner artist every day, every time I see your work, every time
I see everything that is created, like you're bringing out parts of me that I didn't know existed.
And so yeah,
Oh, me personally, well, you and then the artists that make toys and it's like, yeah, thank you.
That's that's a huge compliment. I mean, for I thought you were talking about dove there. So I
was just like shaking my head in agreement. But yeah, thank you to that's, yeah, it's a huge
compliment. Thank you so much. That's how I feel about art artists to like, I am very much an artist,
artists, you know what I mean? Like I love talking to other artists. I love collaborating
with other artists. I like putting on for other artists like, I love seeing other artists win
because this this industry is so fucking hard. Yeah. And it's getting harder by the day like
the world of like, when I entered the scene, it was extra like it was exponentially easier
in so many different ways. Like it's still had its hardships and all that stuff, but it was just
easier because there wasn't as much competition, you know what I mean? And like, there was there
was pockets and like, you could go to, you know, designer con and have conversations with Frank
Kozik and like, there was no gatekeepers. It was beautiful. And then as the art world has kind of
exploded in different ways, the designer toy scene, especially as it's, you know, like now it's like a
stock X thing where like everyone's just buying Takashi, Mirakami and cause because they can flip
it for however fucking much money. And don't get me wrong, I'd love to be included in that
conversation, but it's kind of ruining the the sanctity and the beautifulness of what the designer
toy scene was and is and it's and that's artists making something because they fucking love to
make it. And it's being lost now because you see different artists that I don't I don't want to
call I shouldn't call people's names, but you see our artists on Instagram sometimes and you're
like, motherfucker, you're just making that because you're trying to be you're trying to make money.
And like, you know, like when an artist is just focused on capitalism and just focused on making
money, it just ruins the authenticity for me where I'm like, I'm never going to support that
because you're not making it from like an authentic place of just wanting to make something cool. So
to sort of go back to your compliment, thank you because I'm so inspired by just like, I don't
know, people making things and doing things too. Like I just think it's such a beautiful thing.
And how lucky are we that we get to do that? Right? Yeah, you know, with the nostalgia piece
to going back to that, the thing that I'm excited for is like finding things that aren't nostalgic
yet, or people haven't found them nostalgic yet. And one of the things later this year, we're hosting
toys on tap is hosting an art show at toy to shore about cool. And the theme is all on furbies.
Like, haven't found out like, I don't know, it was just never something that people are like,
Oh, I crave that now I miss those like no one has to furby. And so to have now an art show
trying to create that nostalgia, that's what I'm here for. Bro, that's so cool. I've been thinking
cool. I've been thinking a lot about furbies lately. So it's very apropos that you just said
that I love uncut gems. So like that Furby necklace is always stuck in my head. But dude,
I had that thought the other day of like, I wanted to turn because I drew a Furby. I wish
you I don't know where it is a notebook somewhere. I drew like a Eurman Furby the other day. And
I was like, that's fucking cool. But like, I can't do anything with it. That's dude, I can't wait to
see pictures from that art show, man. That's so sick. Yeah. Off air, we'll talk more about it
because I want to hear more about this Furby. But so you talked about how you loved like toys and
have always loved collecting. Let's go back to that point. Let's see, like, what does it look
like to start collecting early years for you and toys and yeah, and the influence they had on you
even growing up. We interrupt this broadcast of toys on time to bring you this.
Check out www.dktoys.com for a full catalog.
Okay, so I think that's like a multi tiered response. So basically, when I was a kid,
I was a collector. Like I've just been a collector since I was a kid. I was,
you know, my uncle collected Star Wars toys. He collected heavy metal memorabilia. And so I remember
being a kid and just being heavily inspired by that. Like I would buy, you know, like I grew up
in the 90s. So it was peak toy making time, you know, like I collect a lot of Star Wars growing
up and a lot of like comic book stuff. I think we all did, right? And so I still have Star Wars
toys from Power of the Force line that I just never opened. And I'm just now starting to trade
those into like Zia records here in town just because I need the space back and like, they just
don't, you know, I've enjoyed them enough. It's time to move on and someone else can enjoy them.
And so yeah, like as a kid, just heavy collector, comic books, all that stuff, toys, especially,
we were just super inspirational to me. I would sit there and just draw, you know, toy designs
and all that stuff. And then as I got older, I graduated college with a degree in marketing.
And so I started working corporate jobs and all that stuff. And in my first house that I got,
I had a toy room that was strictly just covered head to toe and toys. And at that time,
and at that time, the 40 year old version had just come out. And that's what my dad called me,
right? And so, you know, like, it was just, it was cool. Like I love backs of the future. I
collect a lot of backs of the future stuff. And so like, I had DeLorean stuff everywhere.
A lot of like Marvel legend stuff. So I had like the big like Sentinel, like, you know,
with the scene of him fighting the X men and what else do I have in there? I love hot toys
from sideshow. I think those are some of the most beautiful toys on the market right now. Right.
And then but now currently, like I've kind of like taken a step back from collecting because
I have too much shit. And so yeah, I'm kind of going in like a cleanse mode right now,
where I'm trying to just like, just move stuff to better homes that can enjoy it a little bit more
than I can give the respect to those toys for because there's energy and toys, I feel like.
And like if someone can can, you know, have that in their home and enjoy it more than I can kind
of give it right now, then I think that's important. So I mean, I was at San Diego Comic Con a couple
weeks ago, like I said, and like, I didn't really buy anything. And I was like shocked by that.
Because usually I'm just like, I got bags on bags and bags. Like I think the only things that I got
were I got stuff like affiliated with the art scene. So I've been wanting an Alex party original
for a while. So I splurged on on one from Alex, which was cool. Had a little, you know,
it's always cool talking to Alex. I bought a punk drunkers Funko Pop just because it was like an
easy $20 to spend. I think I have the stuff behind me. But yeah, it's like, I just buy I just try
to buy stuff that like supports the art scene at this point. Like I think that's what's important
to me about collecting now is like, I'd rather give my money to an artist making things than Hasbro
or Mattel, because they don't need fucking money, you know, like I'd rather I want to stop feeding
the machine and start feeding the other machine of like artists surviving, you know, because I
think that's important. So that's kind of where my collecting is kind of geared toward now.
Yeah. And it takes a lot like, I think the toys for me hit a certain point where they're old enough.
So it's like, I'm not even giving to this machine anymore. Like I'm giving to other people that
have collected my life has talked about like, what does it look like to cleanse some of this stuff?
And my collection is not even a whole room like it's maybe a wall. And to already have the
conversation of like, what's it look like to cleanse some of this? Well, I don't know.
You tell me, babe. Yeah, you cleanse something. Yeah. And so it's it's cool. I did I did fall victim to
the man, the retro Marvel Legends 375. I did. I was like, okay, I will start getting these new ones.
And like, but I didn't start collecting that until it was like, I don't know, earlier this year,
when they had already been discontinued. So like now I'm having to go backwards and collect.
Yep. No, I feel you. Luckily, I feel like it's an addiction gene with me. So like once I buy one,
I'm like, I got to get them all now, you know, like I just start getting dirty with it. So I try to
avoid the toy aisle at Walmart when I go or Target or whatever, just because I know like,
I'm just one purchase away from getting the entire DC Universe line again, or like,
any of that stuff. I just can't do it. So yeah, it's it's it's hard, especially because some of
the new toys are like going back down to prices when we were kids. Like, yeah, Ninja Turtle line is
997 right now. A piece which is smart, which is smart. They're like, you know, like, you're gonna
lock me in. Yeah, fine, dude, I can't I know, dude, I love Ninja Turtles so much. It's going to be
hard for me not to buy this new line too. I feel like what I've been doing lately is I've been
trying to get like staple pieces. Yeah. And so there's like certain things that I have alerts for
on like Mercari or eBay, like the one that I'm really searching for right now is an old wrestling
figure that came out in like 2011, I think it's Andy Kaufman. I got a huge Andy Kaufman fan.
And so he had, there was a toy that came out with him versus Jerry the King Lawler. And
it's got Andy with like a neck brace and all that stuff. And I want it so bad, but like it's,
you know, it's like 120 bucks because they only made a small run of it. But yeah, that's the one
that I'm kind of on the search for right now. And then yeah, my collecting is just like different
now. Like I used to just, I don't know, I feel like I just, I don't know, it's weird. Like I
collected everything that I really wanted from artists that I really, really like. I started
doing the NFT thing for a while, like NFT, people, you know, artists that were getting into the
NFT space that were offering, you know, exclusives through their NFT stuff. So like Michael Reeder,
reader one, he's an artist that I really, really look up to. He did a Web 3 project earlier last year.
And if you collected 10 of them, then he would send you a one of one print signed that static
medium printed, which is, I'm just like, dude, his prints are like four grand. So if I could like
jump in at that price and get a like a one of one, like that just was cool to me. And I think that
like the designer toy world hasn't super jumped into the Web 3 space yet. And that's kind of what
I'm trying to figure out right now. I have a generative project that I've been working on for
like two or three years and the art's all done. Now it's just like trying to put a team together
to like do it right. Because I just don't have the time. Like I'm one person running a lifestyle
brand and like, I'm so ADHD that like, as you can probably tell from this conversation, I was like
jumping everywhere. But like, I want to do a little bit of everything, you know, and so like
one day I wake up and I'm like, I don't want to work on this Web 3 thing, I want to work on a
painting or I want to work on this or I have to ship orders or I have to organize the studio or
I have to do a live stream or I have to do this or that. Like I just, it's gotten to a point now
where I just have to delegate a little bit better. And I'm fortunate enough to work with one of my
really close friends, Derek, who's come on as like a project manager and he, I just love him to
pieces and I trust them. And that's so rare to find in this world, you know, to find someone that
you love and respect and trust and you know, has your back and it's, you know, he's, he's starting
to get me a little bit more organized, which is nice because it's a lot like right now, like,
you know, it's a lot going on and I'm very fortunate and I'm lucky and I, and it's been a lot of
fucking work. Don't get me wrong, but like, it's also lucky to do that in this world, in this,
in this art world right now. So it's cool to have him come on board and just like keep me clean.
I'm like, what are we doing with Hot Topic? I'm like, I don't fucking know. You tell me, like,
I, you know, I don't know, I just draw stuff. I just work here. Like that's my new mantra. Like
I just work here. Yeah. Just let me draw cool stuff and like, please just help me on the rest.
So it's been cool. Like, bless up. Shout out to Derek. What a, what a good man.
You're trying to quiet quit from your own company. Yo, dude, the way you just said that's hilarious.
Um, yeah, I've done that. I think that's why like, my mantra this year is I'm just happy to be here.
Like, honestly, I'm just happy to be here. I've survived a lot of stuff in my past. Like last
year, it got really dark again. I didn't think I was going to be here. I kind of disappeared
for a while last year. A lot of stuff's happened this past couple of years with everybody, but like,
I, I'm just happy to be here and alive and make this stuff and just do these things. And I'm just,
I just am thankful. And I think living out of gratefulness has been like the biggest change
this year because I have tried to quiet quit a lot. Like so many times. And I think as artists,
we all do that, you know, like, I don't know if this is like this for you, but my brain doesn't
shut off. Like my brain is constantly going and to be laying there in bed every night and just
like, you know, you're like, dude, just shut up, please, just please, just let me just go to sleep.
And there's been so many times where I'm like, if I just quit doing this and just did something
else, I wouldn't have to do this anymore. I could just go, you know, frivolously live and just,
you know, like, I think there's such a weight on artists and there's such a weight on creatives
in general to constantly produce and it's self imposed and a lot of it's society imposed and
all that stuff. Like I think a lot of it's the algorithms, you know, if I don't post every day
that I'm forgotten or I'm disappearing or all that stuff. And I think the most powerful thing
that I did this year is just, I basically just said, fuck you to social media where I was like,
I'm going to post when I want to post, I don't care anymore. The people that like me and want to
follow me and want to like support me are going to find me and they're going to search it out.
And it's been so good for my own mental health because I'm like, I don't give a shit anymore.
I'm quiet quitting in like other ways at this point. Like I don't want to quiet quit on my brand
or like my creations. Like I want to quiet quit on the sucky part of all this stuff. And that's
social media for me. Yeah. As you, I mean, let's I want to get down to this nitty gritty of your
history. We have the tragedy of the loss of a loved one and it sparks what's so tough as it
like in the midst of tragedy, it sparks a career. It sparks everything that you've done and it kind
of breathes life into that. Walking through that dark period, it's kind of feels sometimes like
you have blinders on and not knowing what you're going to do next. And when you happened upon
this creative little yeti character, how did it like, how did you know that this was gold for you?
Like this was what was going to get you going? I think because I never thought about it as a
capitalistic pursuit. Yeah. And I hate to keep bringing it up like that, but I never did. Like
it is, I still don't like to me, the character has this wild energy to it that I still haven't
tapped into fully. And it like there's this really famous Michael Jackson quote that I really like.
And you know, I know Michael Jackson is divisive as a pop culture icon, but I still really love
Michael Jackson. And he has this quote where they're asking how he wrote Billy Jean, I think it was,
or maybe it's smooth criminal, I can't remember. And he starts sitting there and he goes, well,
I came up with a baseline. He does like, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom,
doom, doom, doom, doom. And then all of a sudden he goes, and from there, I don't remember. And
I'm like, what the fuck? And he and he starts talking about how there was a higher self that he
attunes to that flows through him, that that's how he creates. And I really truly believe that
like I truly believe that we all have this higher artistic creative self. I think that humans in
nature are creative. And because I mean, just look at the world around you, it's all I mean,
there's art and everything. And so for me, the character was always a vessel to carry me forward.
And I truly believe that it was a gift from my grandfather in a lot of ways. He was 33rd degree
Mason. He was a Zell's a Shriner. He dressed up like a clown and visited sick kids in the hospital.
He always gave back, he always gave too much of himself. And because he just wanted people to
be happy around him. He was very much like a Robin Williams type character of like, I will die before
anybody's unhappy around me. And it was beautiful. Like he was a beautiful, beautiful person. And so
I truly believe that there is an aspect of this character coming to fruition as a way not only
to save myself, but also to keep my grandpa's memory alive in different ways, and also to help
other people. And now that I'm seeing it tattooed on people and like seeing it in retailers that I
grew up with and just these crazy things, I'm like, Yeah, like that's what it is. It's not about me.
Like this character has never been about me. And so that's why I wouldn't like when I do these.
So I just got back from a three month tour that I booked earlier this year. And you know, I drove
2000 miles in five days, like last month, it just it's been a lot, right? And so the whole the reason
I did it is because I mean, like, I didn't want to, I didn't want to like, you know, get up every day
at 5am and drive and get to these markets, set up set up a booth, set up all this stuff, have
conversations with people for six hours, tear it down and just be completely exhausted by the end
of the night. But the reason I did it is because I wanted to get back in touch with people again.
I mean, it's been such an isolating couple of years. I experienced a lot of those emotions that
I felt when my grandfather passed that I was starting to get I was starting to distance myself
from like why it is that I do this and that's to connect with people. And so I ended up canceling
the rest of it because I just couldn't do it anymore, like the burnout is it was starting to
affect me a lot. But it made me realize like the power of this character is still very much there.
Like whenever I sell a plush to somebody in person, it's so different selling it on a website or
selling it on a live stream or selling it on, you know, through hot topic or whatever it is.
Whenever I sell a plush, this is a long answer to your question. And I swear I'm going to wrap it
up here. I always say, like this is my year and it's the year on the table, like this is mine,
this is my self portrait. But when you take yours home, you name it, you brush the hair out of its
face, you get close with it, and it's yours now. And your man is just the species name of the character.
Now you get to name it and you get to make it yours. And it's it's been cool to see everyone's
like names they come up with the different places they take it. I mean, people send me pictures
of them taking it to festivals, like I've seen it like rolling loud or whatever that one's called
and life is beautiful Coachella and it's just cool to see the adventures that people take theirs on
now. And so I'm trying to create more products that have that kind of like adventure built into
it, you know, like a choose your own adventure type thing, but like more ingrained with the story.
And so the plush has been like the first aspect of that. And I'm trying to figure out what the next
is for that avenue. And it's been cool, like, because you're right, like it does come from a
really dark place, but I try to bring as much light to it and as much like positivity to the brand
as possible, because it I can easily get dark, like, you know, I think all of us can we all have
that inside of us. And I'd rather just operate in positivity instead of negativity, because
that's the only reason I'm still here on the earth. And, you know, I think a lot of us are is that we
choose to be positive. It's a choice, you know, instead of dealing in that negative energy all
the time. So I don't know if that answered it, I kind of just rambled there for a while. But
I hope you guys know it's good. Yeah. And even if I didn't, my editing skills are off the charts
now. So we're that's what's up. That's what's up. What's cool is the way that you described
your man earlier was this like, he has so many big emotions in there. Yeah, there's this thing
with dogs and my dog does this. If they have too many big emotions, they'll go grab a stuffed animal
or something and bring it to you. It's not for you. It's just they got too many big feelings.
And so then they like shake and yeah, so like, you're man already connects to like my dog who's
like getting older and never dying, but he's getting older. Yeah, I like that. That's great.
But so you like what's interesting too is you took the brand without wanting it. It's almost
like didn't want to create a brand, but created the brand. And it had a purpose to it made the
shirts those started going and then jump from shirt to toy. What's that progression because
that's a cool progression. Usually we're like toy and then we'll create merch. So you went the other
way. What's that like? Why was that? I think it's easy for me to like have an answer now because
I'm looking back. But I think at the time when I was thinking I've always been really inspired by
Cartoon Network and Adult Swim. Adventure Time, regular show, even back before that Space Ghost
Coast to Coast, like all that stuff, right? And I wanted to build a world for my character,
but I wanted to do it in a nonconventional way because basically my whole goal is like,
I want to build my merch line out so that way when it becomes a cartoon, I have all the rights to
it already. So that's always been my goal because I have friends that are artists and they have
managers and stuff that take 50% of everything that they do. And it's such a grotesque thing in
the art world, people that just like try to own artists and all that stuff. And so I'm completely
DIY and like everything that I do in my brand is because I want to do it and it's all self-funded
and it's all every money that every dollar that's made with depressed monsters is either donated
or put back into the brand to make stuff. Like it's not a profitable brand. Like it's enough to
sustain itself and it's enough to pay the bills and it's enough to just make cool shit because
that's all I care about. And so the progression from clothing to toys was with that, excuse me,
was with that in mind, was cool. I just got a partnership with Zappos. We're now on Zappos.
So now how can I turn this money into something that I want to make? Okay, cool. I'm going to pay
Wetworks, you know, thousands of dollars to sculpt this and then I'm going to pay him even more
thousands of dollars to produce these and then I'm going to sell them. I remember the designer
con that I presented those at, I sold one. Oh, like that's how crazy the toy world is. Like even
back then I put all this money into it and I sold one of them and I was like, okay, this is eye
opening. And like, it was one of those things that I just believed in it so much that I was like,
okay, I sold one. I know I can sell more. I think I had a run of 30. And I was like, fuck, like,
this is so much money. What am I going to do? Blah, blah, blah. The other thing too was that
when he shipped them to me, half of, I think like 25 of them were broken when I opened the box at
Designer Con. So I was like, you have to be kidding me. Like this is just one hit after another.
And so I remember that designer con, I was just like, so in the red. And so I was like, shit,
what do I do now? I think the beautiful thing about sticking to your guns and sticking to
and just not quitting is that eventually, eventually they sold out like, don't get me wrong,
like that was a really cool milestone. But I think the coolest part is that
there's a 7pm YouTube live. It's Toys R Live. Toys R Live. Toys R Live. Toys R Live.
This way cool artist unboxing accounts under 1000 followers, aren't out there for 30 bucks or less.
Collectors spotlight. Current upcoming shows and drops. Giveaways. Short chats with artists.
100% indie all the time. That's Toys R Live. Toys R Live.
Thursday nights, 7pm PST, YouTube live. Like people. So when the pandemic hit,
I started doing live stream selling and I started selling on different apps like,
you know, like these whatnot apps and all that stuff. I started selling on one called Pop Shop
because designer con was on Pop Shop. And I got lucky because I did a late night show.
And no one else was doing a late night show. And I had a couple of those left over. And I
sold those things for maybe 120. During the late night show, people were buying them for hundreds
and thousands of dollars just because like, everyone was like stuck inside and they and
they were finding out about the story of the brand. Some people had known the brand,
they didn't have a chance to buy it before. And so it started becoming bidding wars.
And it was like, it was really surreal for me because I was like, Holy shit, like this toy
that didn't sell out or that I sold one of when I released it, because I just held on to a couple
of them of the run have become like this, this different thing now because one, it's, it's for
two reasons. Like what works has become highly collected. You know, he's just, he's one of the
most respected toy makers in the game, in my opinion, him and, and Quicks are like, I and I
to me. And, and then two people collect my stuff differently now. And so like, I just feel really
lucky that like I held to my guns and stuck to my guns on that one because it was really
demeaning to be sitting at designer con as an artist that had fans. Like, I, you know, I wasn't
like a small artist, like by any means into 2014, but I wasn't, I hadn't grown to make things like
I make now. But also just to be sitting there and seeing other people selling is always really
demeaning because you're like, well, what's wrong with me? What's wrong with what I make?
Like, why is it that people don't want what I'm doing or what I'm making? And so,
you know, I think everything that I do is out of that emotion of like, okay, well, I have to prove
why my, my thing is worth something or why my thing is cool or why whatever, because you have to,
you have to show people that essentially. So yeah, I think that the leap from clothing to toys was one,
I love toys. I've always loved toys. I wanted to be in the scene, but also two,
I just, I guess it was just because I thought it was cool. That's that's to answer your question.
I thought it would be cool to jump in that scene. And other people I love do it. And I don't know,
I just thought it'd be rad. I still haven't made a vinyl toy. Like that's, that's my big goal.
And I'm hoping to do it in the next couple of years, but that's, you know, I just stick with
resident right now. Yeah. One of the, you know, I always think about that when I go to designer con
of what people like, I never want to see someone at a booth, not interacting with anyone,
especially like, if I don't know you, and I've never interacted with you as an artist,
I may pass by your table a couple of times and like figure out like, how do we going to interact
here? But those people that I've interacted with because of this or because of what I do or any
number of things, I will spend hours at your booth. If we're talking the whole time, like,
great. And we're going to talk about how rad your stuff is because it's just about how much I love
you and your art. I always do fear those moments of like walking by one and they're just sitting
there like waiting for someone to engage like, let me be that person. It's well, yeah, I feel you,
dude. And from someone that just got back from three months of doing it, it's hard, right? Like,
I'm an, I'm one of those weird people that like, I can be extroverted, but I need to recharge my
batteries. And if my batteries aren't charged, I am the most introverted person on the planet.
Like, I just cannot, I can't talk, I can't physically talk. And I have just really bad social
anxiety. And so I think a lot of it for that first year that I did that with my own character
was I didn't have a friend to rely on to be the salesperson. I was the artist and the salesperson.
And so it's hard because like, you're sitting there and you're being completely vulnerable by
putting something out that you made and that your heart and soul is in, and then you have to sell it.
So you're almost like selling a part of your soul in this really weird, like, fucked up way,
right? And so you just can't overthink it at the end of the day. That's what I've learned is you
just can't overthink it. You just have to like put your retail cap on, Hey, how's it going? I love
your shirt. Oh my God, you know, like, and you just have to do it. And it sucks. And it's the worst
part of the job, but it's also part of the job. I'd rather be doing that than sitting at a desk,
talking about Excel sheets, you know, like, I've done that, like, I've had every job in the book.
I've worked construction, I've washed dishes in a hospital. I've, you know, I've done it all.
And I think that like, right now, I had to disappear last year to come back to terms of the
fact that like, I'm choosing to do this and I love to do this. So fucking do it, man. Like,
you know, like, and it's tough sometimes for sure, because like, I don't know. Like you see,
you do see the different types of ways people run their booths, right? Like, so I just got back from
I was at Five Points Festival in Brooklyn. And that was the first time I've done an East Coast show.
And there was expensive, like you have hotel costs, you have flight costs, you have ubers,
you have food costs, you have all these things that just start piling up. And so when I got there,
I was like, I have to sell, you know, like I have to, I got to pay for this trip. And so I was by
some really respected artists, some really famous artists, like, you know, there's all you have,
you run the gamut of people that are around you. And I just put my cap on and like, I was really,
it was kind of surreal because on the on the flip side, like on the one side, I had people that
were coming to an East Coast show, dressed head to gear or head to toe and depressed monster stuff,
just to come see me. And like, in New York, you got to travel to do that. So I'm so grateful for
that. So I'll give you goodies, I'll hook it up. I'll, you know, hey, if you get this, I'll throw
in this like, oh, that's because I want to pay it forward and just say thank you. And I remember
by the end of it, I was by this really famous artist. And he goes, he's like, dude, I didn't
sell a single thing today. And I go, I'm so sorry. And he goes, he's like, dude, I got to give you
respect, man, because you hustled. And I was like, well, I looked at like I did, I had to like, I
didn't, I didn't get to just write a subway here and like, just set up like I had, like, there was
months of preparation for this and like all that stuff. So if I didn't come here and do that,
I'd be really mad at myself. And so I think like that was an eye opening thing for me to just like
to be, you know, to be given that respect of like you hustled at a show where like, you know,
there's just so much competition. I was like, okay, cool, like, I think I'm getting more comfortable
with this and something that I was very uncomfortable with before. And it's been hard and it's been
taxing and it's been really, really, it's been really fucking hard to get to that honestly,
like, it's not an easy thing to do, like by any means. And I have so much respect for
for any kind of artisan that gets out there and sets up a booth and and sells their wares,
whether you're making candles or you're making paintings, like it's it's hard to do and there's
so much competition. And so I don't know that five points was just was was a surreal trip just
because like, you know, Pete, like I said, people were dressed headed to my stuff. And I had other
artists that were there, other companies that basically were telling me like they only started
their company because they saw my live streams during the pandemic and it allowed them to be
goofy. And I was like, Yeah, that's half the fun of what we do, you know, so like, it's just cool
to see how my little character that for me is just, you know, I look at this thing and I'm just
like, that's just me, you know, like, it's just that's all it is. And for other people, it just
has grown to be something else entirely. And it's it's something that like, I don't take lightly,
and I try to put the necessary respect on and try to pay it forward where I can. So yeah, it's been
a it's been a wild year, like for sure. This has been one of the wilder years for for the brand of
just like growing and developing and being more comfortable in my own skin. Yeah, so I mean,
in how the brand has developed, you started, you did toys, you moved up and then different brand
deals and now working with Hot Topic like what's that? This like birth and blooming of depressed
monsters in the corporate sector now? What's that like? Yeah, I don't think that I'm giving it the
necessary attention that it should honestly, because I am like, I'm such an anarchist at heart,
like I grew up listening to like Chumba Wamba, which are like the dopest anarchists in the world,
or like, I love the sex pistols and the clash growing up, like I come from such a punk rock
culture that like, I don't give the necessary attention to the stuff that it needs to and
that's why I'm so happy to bring on a project manager because I'm like, okay, cool, now like,
I can be my fucking weirdo punk rock self and like have the help necessary where it is, right?
Like it is, it's surreal, like it is weird to see something birthed out of, you know,
surviving suicide to be on Hot Topic now in weird ways and like, it's cool. I mean,
everything had a path, right? So I told you I came from corporate. So I worked at Zappos for 10,
seven years. And I was the only employee that was on the site as a vendor. So like, I was an employee
at a company and also a vendor of the company. And so I had this weird double hat thing where
they're like, Hey, dude, you can't work on this shit during work hours. But if you want to like
moonlight it more power to you. So I was basically for five years there, working nine to five,
coming home working six to two in the morning, just building this brand. And so the first corporate
deal that I got was Zappos. And it was such a wild way that it came about. And then that led to Zapp,
or it's a Hot Topic, and then that led to, you know, XYZ or whatever. And now we're trying to,
right now this year, we're trying to formulate it in a different way to like build out the wholesale
side of it and really build out our wholesale business and build out like more licensing
opportunities. And for me personally, I've been just studying the game a lot and trying to get
better at design. Because I didn't go to art school. Like everything that I do is just like
out of necessity and trying to figure out like what this is. I mean, the only reason I know
Photoshop is because I bootlegged it. You know, I torrented CS6 like the rest of us. And I was
face swapping my friends, you know what I mean? Like just being a dummy with Photoshop, just like
all of us. And so now that I have like friends that work at Adobe, it's funny to tell them that
story because they're like, Yeah, that's why we all work here. You know, like everybody has it at
same pathway with Adobe and Photoshop in general. And so I'm trying to really take it seriously now
and just figure out like what is my style with graphic design because I never got that opportunity
to learn it. And so I've taken a step back where I'm not doing murals as much anymore. I'm not doing
you know, much of anything else rather than just designing things in Photoshop and trying to get
really good at that. So that way I can kind of carry the brand forward in that way.
Yeah, it's funny that you said the CS6 thing because I for sure torrented the hell out of that.
But then the fear was like I couldn't let it ever try to connect to anything because it wants it
updated over. It happened at one time. I had to find another torrent. Yeah, I remember updating it
and it was like, guess what? This program no longer works. I was like, fine, it's fine.
I know. I mean, and now it's like it's at the point now where it's like, okay, I'll just pay for it.
Like if I'm building like I built my brand on a 2010 MacBook that didn't that barely worked and
torrented, you know, versions of Photoshop. And then I didn't buy my first real MacBook until 2019,
I think. And I was like, you know, I should probably do this. Like I should probably just like
pay for Photoshop and pay for a MacBook and all that stuff. And it's just been funny to see like
how hard I made things like in the developmental stage. But I think it's also
like I said, coming from punk rock culture, you have a lot of DIY prove it to myself, you know,
emotions tied to it and all that stuff. So that's I mean, again, that's the whole reason I got in
a van and did this tour this year, because I always was jealous of like, you know, my other
friends and bands that got to go on tour, I never got to do it. So I was like, cool, now I've done
it. Now it's time to get back and like drive the business in different ways. So yeah, it's been
it's been a learning process this year for sure of like, what I want to do, what works, what doesn't
work. And it's always a learning process. It's always, you know, you know, that it's just it's
always fighting with yourself and trying to figure it out.
So I trajectory of this of this podcast has been awesome, but we're headed towards mental
health stuff. And I wanted to give enough time because I want to know, like all your ties to
that and why that's like the big thing that we're like partnering with and stuff. But before we do
that, tell me about this tour. Okay, how big was it actually supposed to be? And then when did
burnout start to set in where you were like this can't happen? Yeah, great question.
And yeah, definitely do you want to talk about the mental health aspect of it for sure, because
that has actually changed a lot for me too personally. Yeah, so like I think that's that's
something I haven't really been able to talk about publicly. So the tour, like I said, I disappeared
last year. I didn't really make anything last year. The only project that I did last year was a
city of Las Vegas utility box. I painted like 10 or 12 utility boxes for the city of Las Vegas.
And I know of like, I say that I'm like, that is actually a really cool project. But for that's
the only thing I did last year. And I, you know, like I just started going through my savings.
And I just, you know, I was just like, I need to I think I need this year to just regroup. Because
and I'm answering a question about the tour, but I have to give preface to it first. That way
this tour makes sense. I told you I worked at Zappos, Tony Shay, who was the CEO died tragically
in 2020. And he was a friend of mine. He was a mentor of mine. He was someone that I loved dearly
that loved me in his own ways in return, right? His love language was his love language was
putting on for his friends. And so I'd never asked anything from Tony, but he allowed me
so many different things that I'm still finding out about. And so like I told you that I was the
only employee to be on Zappos. I had no idea because he never told me that it was it everyone said
no at the company. He's the one that said yes, that made it happen. And he never told me that
like it brings a tear to my eye because I'm like, Jesus Christ, Tony, like,
what the fuck, you know, like, and he was just such a beautiful like how, how often do you
meet a billionaire and one, I mean, how often do you meet a billionaire within two? How often do
you meet a billionaire that just wants people to be happy? It's like unheard of, like that's
unheard of. And he genuinely wanted that. He genuinely wanted people to be happy and live
their truth and live their creative self of like, what do you want? And how do I make it? How do I
help it easy, like make it easier for you? And he wasn't an artist. He wasn't a creative person by
nature. But everything that he thought and everything the way he thought was so creative in
such a beautiful artistic way, right? So when he passed in 2020, I started experiencing very small
those emotions of when my grandpa passed it in a different way. It wasn't like a person that I
grew up with, but I kind of did like, you know, I worked there for almost 10 years, like, I hung
out, I went to, you know, we, you know, we hung out like all that stuff. Like the last time I saw him
was 2019. And it was at this place called the El Cortez, which is like this little like really
divey hotel downtown. And I remember I asked him about this festival that I was going to do and
it was put on by someone that they had beef. Like it was the guy that started life as beautiful.
He's a friend of mine. I'm friends with Tony. And so I wanted to respect both of them and just see
like where they were because I was kind of playing middleman. I didn't want to step on anybody's toes.
So I went to dinner with the guy from life is beautiful. He told me the full story of what
happened. I was like, man, I'm so sorry, like that's crazy. So then the next night I was with Tony,
and I was like, Hey, you know, like I was out with him and I just wanted you to know like,
there's an opportunity for me to do something really cool. But like out of respect, do you think
I should do it? And even though he had all this beef or whatever happened between them, he just
looked at me and said, Is it good for you? And I said, Yeah, I think it'd be a good opportunity.
He goes, What does it matter? My opinion. He's like, you should do it. And I just looked at him
and like I had tears in my eyes because I'd never really told him how much he meant to me. And no
one ever did because he was an intimidating figure by nature with, you know, like when someone's
that powerful or has that much money or whatever. And so I just looked at him and I had tears in
my eyes and I was like, dude, you mean so much to me and I love you as a human being. And I'm so
thankful for you. You've changed my life in ways that you will never know. And he had like, he
didn't know how to deal with this emotion. So he had some tears in his eyes too. But he had a thing
where like for net was his shot of choice, like it was like his introduction, like, that was his
thing, like it was his initiation, basically. And so he goes, Let's do a shot. And so we did a shot
of for net. And then the rest of the night, we went to this place called the bunkhouse. He, you
know, it was a group of us, he bought food for everybody. And then his other love language was
making soup for people. So we went back to his communal living area, which was like all air streams
and he made soup for us. And I remember I'll play two or three in the morning that night,
which was way past my bedtime. And I was just very thankful that I got that because it was
something that I didn't normally do because I was so focused on growing the brand that was my
obsession. Like, I was obsessed with it. I didn't leave the house. Like I just was like focused on
making this brand. And I was so glad that I decided to go out that night and have that one last
memory with him because you never know when someone's going to be gone, right? So long story
short, I deal with these emotions. I'm trying to figure out like, okay, like this is crazy.
Two years go by, I'm still not breathing correctly because like he's still coming up in
conversation. Like he's, you know, in Vegas, he's a he's like the Wizard of Oz. Like everybody
always talks about this huge loss for the community for culture. Like, he just put on so heavily
for people. And so last year, I think it hit me in a really difficult way where it was one,
10 years since I lost my grandpa. And then two, I wasn't grieving, right? The loss of Tony. And it
just hit me in really, really deep and crazy ways that like I had to just disappear because if I
didn't, I was going to, you know, maybe self harm or whatever was going to happen. I didn't know.
And so out of respect for the brand, out of respect for what this brand has stood for for
people out of respect for what it is evolving into, whatever, I took a step back and just was like,
I had to deal with my emotions and maybe not in healthy ways, but I did deal with them. And I'm,
you know, healed from it now. So then this year, I, this has been a rebuild year for me. And I
know from like a social media standpoint, it doesn't look like that from a social media standpoint,
you just put the highlights, you just put like, you know, positive, you don't get to see that like,
damn, dude, I'm just happy to be here, you know, like, I'm just happy to like be alive.
And so this year, during the beginning of it, I was like, All right, it's crunch time, let's do it.
I started working 16 hour days again, I started just like getting back on the computer, I started
studying design, I started studying all these different things. I started figuring out what I
wanted to be as an artist this year. And I was approached by this NFT project called the not
okay bears. And they decided they asked me if they could use the name for us to do a co event
called depressing not okay. And I was like, usually I'm pretty, I usually I say no to things like
this because you know, there's just so much things like this now, there's so many wellness events,
there's so many things of people. It's almost like snake oil salesman now where it's like,
people are always like, you know, come to this event, you'll be healed, you'll be, you know,
like come talk about your depression. And I was just like, I was careful, it's trepidatious about
it. But after talking to them more, I realized that like, their project stands for autism acceptance,
and that's very important to me too. And so I was like, cool, you can handle that side of it,
I'll just talk about my brand and what we've done. And like, I never claimed to be anything that I'm
not. And so I just know that like, you know, my brand stands for this, because I've experienced
this. And people get their own attachments to people get their own experiences with it, it took
me a long time to realize that and figure that out. So long story short, that event happens,
I set up a booth for the first time in damn near 10 years. And people just were like happy to see
me. And I was like, Oh, shit, like, I'm happy to see people too. Like this is so different.
And so because of that, I went home and I was like, I'm gonna book a tour. And I was like,
like no one tells you you can just book a tour. Yeah, you can do it yourself, you know, like
you can do it yourself. Like, you don't need to rely on anybody else. Like you could just do it.
Like you could if you want to go do something like book a tour, then you can do it. So I started
just doing a lot of research and started figuring out what was coming up. I started just applying
to everything. I just started figuring out like a schedule. And I started hitting like,
I did a first Friday here in Vegas for the first time in May. And it was the first time I had done
one in since 2011 2012. And right away, people were coming up like, Oh my God, you did the utility
boxes, you did the murals, you you're on hot topic. I was like, I was like, shit, like people
remember me like I disappeared, but doesn't mean I disappeared from other people. And that's a
powerful thing to experience, you know, like to feel like you have left people physically or
emotionally or spiritually. And then to be seen like that was eyeopening for me where I was like,
Oh, shit, okay, I'm an idiot. I'm looking at this all wrong. Like, let's go, you know. And so from
that first Friday, I then I was accepted into like, like I said, five points festival, I figured
out a really cool San Diego Comic Con schedule, which I just got back from I did my first signing
at San Diego Comic Con, which was like I said, just surreal, had a line around the booth, I
sketched for a full hour that I was allotted. I also, because of the writer's strike, artists of
my caliber were given more opportunities, which was cool. So like, I got to like, walk a red carpet
for the first time, like, did give interviews as an artist, like, that's a herd of like, that stuff
does not happen unless we're in this current climate of like, you know, writer strikes trying to get
their fair pay and stuff. And so it's just been like this really wild whirlwind of three months,
where halfway through, I started realizing I was missing out on, like, personal things like
birthdays, like I missed my mom's birthday for the first time, because all my family's in Vegas,
and like, I don't know, like my mom is my world, you know, so like, I don't want to miss my mom's
birthday, like, my parents are getting older, I love them, like I want to spend time with them. And
I started missing like, you know, events with friends. And like, I was on this, this crazy week
where I had four events in one week during fourth of July week. And I, and that's the week that I
told you I drove 2000 miles. And I went to five different cities, in the matter of like four or
five days, and I ended it by going to a friend's bachelor party in Utah up in the mountains.
And I was like, I hadn't slept for like two days. And I'm driving that I fell asleep in a Smith's
parking lot. And then the sun comes up, and I drive up a mountain. And then I get into the house
for this bachelor party. And I lay down, as soon as I lay down, everybody starts waking up. And
then I go on a five mile hike with my friends, because it's the bachelor party. And I'm like,
I cannot physically do this. Like, I'm not getting any younger. Today's my birthday. I'm getting older.
Like, I have to be like realistic about what I can and can't do. And so I remember that weekend,
it was this beautiful weekend with like my high school friends that I've known for 20 years,
like just one of those like really special moments where you look around, you go,
I'm really blessed to know these people still and that they still love me and that I, you know,
like that's a that's a that's a rare thing. And so I came home from that and I was like,
I can't do it. I can't do it anymore. And so I was supposed to go on tour with Hawthorne Heights
and Seusson and all these like emo bands, and it was going to be really good for public outreach.
But I just realized I wasn't ready for it, that I'm not ready for the the emotional turmoil that
comes with it. And also from a booth standpoint, I have some work to do on my booth that like I'm
going through a full rebrand right now that I had to be honest about it. Opportunities like that
will always be there. But like, I won't always be here if I keep, you know, working like that.
And so I just had to be really honest about it. And I hate saying no to opportunities that I
truly believe in because I think they're rare, but like, even more rare as being able to even get
up in the morning. So I don't know, like, I just had to be honest about it. And so this is, I just
canceled it last week, I canceled the rest of the tour. This month, instead, I'm going to do like,
local things. So I just did first Friday, last week, I'm starting to do my live streams again
once a week and connect with like, my fans there that like love to just hang out and be goofy on
stream. And then I have another depression, not okay on the 12th, which I'm really excited about.
This is the first time that, this is the first time that I've curated vendors for it. So I have a
list of like 15 vendors that are going to come out, show, you know, show their paintings for
sometimes, you know, some people, this is the first time they've ever shown their work. And that's
like, I want to be there as a, as like a guide almost, you know, to be like, Hey, this is awesome,
you're doing awesome. Let's, you know, like, I have another event, please come out to the other
event and I don't charge them like it's a free, you know, if I can, if I can offer that as like a
free thing to do, just so you can make money off your art. Cool, like that's what I want to be
for cultivating culture here in Vegas, because that's really, really frigging important to me
because nobody else is doing it. Like Vegas is such a town devoid of culture that like,
if I'm not doing it, then who is, then who's going to step up and do that for other artists?
Because no one did it for me. I wish someone had helped me in that way. So I want to be able to do
that for, for other people, because I think it's important. Yeah, which man, that's, thank you for
telling me all that. And it's your birthday. You did this interview on your birthday. Happy birthday.
Happy birthday. I mean, this is, thank you, dude. I mean, this is the best birthday present I can
get. I love, I love doing podcasts and I've been looking forward to speaking with you and it just
kind of worked out that it was today, which is nice. Yeah, you know, it's, it's crazy one to hear
that you were going to go on tour with Seosan and Hawthorne Heights, like the emo inside me from
when I was a kid. I remember seeing them at an underground show venue in Fresno, California,
and not knowing the hell they were and seeing them and then all of a sudden buying their first
albums and it was like, what is happening here? It was cool. That's so sick, dude. Yeah. I mean,
that music is really important to me. I think the first time that my eyes opened to the brand was,
I was hanging out with Bert McCracken from the used. He would, I had a, I had a friend that
used to go on tour with them and make clothing for him. And so he was always gracious enough to
be like, Hey, Ryan, come hang out with us. And I was like, okay. And so Bert like kind of became
a friend and I have a picture of us together where he's wearing a Euroman shirt. And I was like,
damn, like this band saved my life in college, literally. And now I'm like, I get to just be
around him and like be backstage with them. And like, it was just surreal. And so that's,
that was kind of like the emotions that I went into with this where it was like, cool. Now I get to
be a part of the experience for other people, you know, finding emo music or enjoying it and all
that stuff. And I was really excited about it. But like, I'm just not ready for it right now. And
it sucks. Like I wish I was like, I have an email right now in my inbox where it's like,
I might like, I'm like, going back and forth on it, we're like, should I just do one of them?
Should I just do one of the dates? Like just experience it. And I'm like, I just don't know
if I can like, I was supposed to like, it was supposed to be like a 10 city tour with them
of like, I think we're going to like Ohio, Tennessee, California, like just all these
different cities, Lake Tahoe was one of them. And I just, you know, it just got to a point
where I couldn't do it. Yeah. Well, if you do do one show, make California the show, make Southern
California the show. Yeah. Yeah. Silverado, California, you know where that is? I don't
know where that's at. Is that Southern California? No, I don't think so. Yeah, I didn't even look at
the, I don't think so either. I'd never heard of it because I'm a West Coast guy. So like, you know,
I know California pretty well. And yeah, I've never heard of it either. But I don't know. I want to
so bad just because that music is so important to me. And plus it's like, oh, bands, I think
alkaline trio is playing it bad religions on it. Like all these bands, I just grew up worshiping,
you know, like skating to and stuff like, I don't know. It's tough. It's really tough to say no to
an opportunity like that because I feel like what I'm trying to rebrand to press monsters into just
falls so much in line with that culture and emo music in general that I'm like embracing it more
because I've, I think I've just been so isolated in the approach that it's like, now I know what
to kind of tie the horse to and be like, no, like it isn't, I have an emo brand, you know what I mean?
Like it is an emo brand, even from the designs or the look and feel or just me as a person,
like that's what it is. And so that was the whole idea with it. But yeah, I don't know, maybe next
year, I'm hoping next year. Yeah. And this fits right into the conversation going towards
the mental health side of depressed ministers and really the purpose that you've kind of given this
and built into this brand and tell us a little bit about what that's like, like what open up about
this, how these are so intertwined, this mental health thing in year men and how it all works
together. I think it's been for me personally, it's been a journey. I kind of got thrust into it,
like I'm not gonna lie, I kind of got thrust into it. The whole reason this brand exists is
what one already told you because my grandpa, but the only reason it exists as a brand is because I
put my story on a blog post that I think is still up. And it was basically just detailing like, hey,
I know you bought a shirt of this character, or you've seen me posting about it. But like,
this is what it actually is. And I started, I detailed the story about my grandpa in like this
really long blog post. And people just like were so supportive and just like, holy shit, I knew
something was, you know, like with it, but I didn't realize like the depth of it, right? And so
it was like, it was crazy to just be like, okay, you know, this was scary to do, but I put the
blog post out, like, I'm glad people are being kind about it. And then all of a sudden, I get a
call from the Jed Foundation, and they go, Hey, we saw your blog post, someone shared it, we saw it,
we want to invite you out to craft your story into a motivational talk with the moth. And I was
like, damn, dude, like I listened to NPR all the time, like I love the moth, like that's cool.
And so I was like, all right, cool, and happened to coincide with the work trip that I was already
taking for Zappos. And so I was like, okay, I'll just double it up, I'll stay an extra week,
do the moth thing, then I'll go do the work trip or whatever. And so, so I remember this was 20,
I think this was 2014, 2013, maybe 20, maybe even before that, I can't remember everything kind of
like is lumping together at this point. But I remember it was the winter time, and I didn't
pack right for it. So like my shoes were like, I wore like roaches, remember like the Nike
roaches shoes or whatever, everyone's like making fun of you, like, dude, you're slipping in the
snow. It's like, I don't know what I'm doing from the desert. And I remember being just so scared
and so intimidated, but also like feeling like, okay, this is my grandpa, like this is my grandpa
laying out a path for me, I feel like. So I'm going to take this seriously. I was scared to death,
I went to, I was in this little warehouse in Brooklyn. And this is going to sound,
I don't usually tell this story because it sounds kind of like,
supernatural almost, but I believe in these things. And so I think it's important to talk about,
I'm a spiritual person, like by nature, I think it's important to talk about this stuff. And
like I said, I think art is supernatural and spiritual nature. So I remember we had one day
where it was basically the moth being like, hey, this is what we do. These are the stories,
we're going to have some examples, all that stuff, you know, tonight, just go back to your hotel and,
you know, relax, but tomorrow is when the work begins. I was like, all right, cool. So the first
day was very just like, cool, I'm just getting comfortable with my skin, they're doing like
interviews with us because they're going to share them to like, we were working with like
Sachi and Sachi, which is like a big medical provider and all that stuff. And I was just like,
this is crazy, like I can't believe I get to do this. And so I remember going home that night,
or it's back to the hotel, and I was just like relaxing, I was like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
take this seriously tomorrow. I started thinking of ideas of like, all right, well, I know the story
because my story, my grandpa died, he was this, how much do I want to tell, how much am I comfortable
telling? And I go to sleep, I wake up the next day. And I told you that my grandpa was a 33rd
degree mason, right? He has always communicated with me through lights. And through the mason
symbology and all that stuff, there's always lanterns. And so I have a feeling that maybe
something he learned is about communicating through lights. I don't know. There's a lot of
theories about the masons. I don't know, like, I went to him, I went with him for one, for one
meeting, you can read about on my blog. He tried to he tried to bring me in from a first degree
standpoint. It wasn't for me. It is what it is, right? So I think, I think what I believe this,
I don't know if it's true. Again, like everyone has their their ways of people communicating
from the afterlife. For me, it's lights, whenever I think about them or talk to or, you know,
want to talk to him lights flicker. There's been very there's been a lot of moments of this.
And I'm only saying this stuff. So maybe this makes more sense when I tell the actual story.
But we went to a remembrance forum at the mason's hall, the mason hall here in Vegas. This was
probably like two years after he passed there, they're putting a painting of him in the in the
lodge. And I was with my grandma's with my uncle, who's also a mason, as my aunt and all this stuff.
And we were sitting there as soon as they said his name, the light above me and my uncle started
flickering. And we were the two that went with him to a meeting. And I was like, okay, and everybody
noticed it. Like, it wasn't just us. It was like, okay, like, everyone was like, Oh, hey, Casey,
you know what I mean? Like, and so I was like, yeah, okay, this has happened to me like separately.
And I told my uncle that. And, you know, it's hard to tell people that stuff, because sometimes
they don't buy into it or they don't believe it and all that stuff. But I was like, okay, that's
weird. So I'm in Brooklyn. I take the train in, you know, I go into the warehouse for the second
day of this stuff. And I'm nervous. And I do this thing where like, the morning time that you're
working one on one with someone from the moth, they're helping you craft your beats, they're
helping you, you know, outline your story and all that stuff. And then the afternoon was when you
practice it in front of everybody. And then that night is when you do it for real with cameras in
front of a live audience. And you know, with their metal guitar music and all that stuff. Right.
So I'm, I'm fucking scared, dude, like I am just like, I'm praying, I'm like, I'm trying to talk to
my grandpa, like all this stuff. So we had this break before it was after we crafted our stories,
it was before we were supposed to tell them in front of the class and all this stuff. And I went
outside and I closed my eyes and I was like, I was like, please just, you know, if just give me a
sign that I'm doing the right thing, because I was nervous, I didn't want to tell us if it wasn't
respectful, I didn't want to tell a story that might disrespect the, you know, the memory of my
grandpa. And so I always want to be respectful. And so I remember just like, I was like, close my
eyes and I feel the snow on me, I feel the coldness of the winter in New York. And I was like, all
right, I feel like I feel at peace right now, I'm just going to go do it. So I go back inside. And
I was so nervous that like they're asking what order they want everyone to go in and people
are like, I'll go next, I'll go next. And so I'm trying to go second to last, because if you're
second to last, you get forgotten because people only remember the last person, right? So I'm about
to go second to last and I go to put my hand up and someone jumps up and goes in front of me, I go,
you have to be kidding me. Now I'm the last person. This sucks. So because I didn't have a lot of like
public experience, you know, public speaking experience. So this is where it gets crazy.
And again, like, you can, you know, say this is hoopla or whatever, but this actually happened.
We are the person ends and they kill it, like they're just their story is so good. I'm like,
gosh, shit, like, we'll see like what what happens now. So I go up there and I start my story. And
I tell it in a more like I tell with more details than I tell it on podcasts or interviews, like
I'm actually getting into the emotions of it all that stuff, right? And so I'm about a minute into
it. And then I say my grandpa's name and all of a sudden I kid you not, the lights start flickering
in the entire building and then the the heater behind me are in front of me. I can't remember
start shaking and explodes. And everyone just starts looking around. So they had to like reboot this
system. The heater was fried. And everyone's like, dude, what was that? And like, everyone's like,
that's your grandpa. And I was like, I thought so too, right? So ever since that moment, I was like,
damn, like, what am I here on earth to do? Like, is it like, what is it? Like, I'm
trying to figure it out. And so long story short, that, you know, that that event went off, we did
the moth thing. And so from then on, I was like, Okay, well, then I guess I'm going to start doing
public speaking. And so then I got hired by like colleges and like, I would go tell the story of
your man, you know, the one I did right before the pandemic, I got hired to do a talk at the
college of North Dakota. So I was like, I went to North Dakota in the middle of winter. Like,
it was Fargo, I went to Fargo. It was so cold. And so I was doing that for a while. But I wasn't
being honest about like what it is, like, I never wanted to be a mental health advocate. It's not
something that I wanted to do. Because I don't think I have any right to like, tell people,
you know, Oh, this is how you do it. Or this is like, no, like, it's such a personal thing that
happens to people that all I wanted to do was share my story. And just hopefully somebody
can connect with it. And I think along the way I kind of got lost. And I think this happens to
everybody that is in this industry, you battle your ego. And I think that like, I had a big ego
at the beginning of this brand, I thought I was the shit. I was like, Yeah, I'm doing it. No one
else is doing it. Because there really wasn't a lot. There wasn't anybody any other mental health
brands at the time, like there really wasn't. Like there was to write love on our arms that had
started in the early 2000s that you would see it warp to her and stuff. And that was my inspiration.
Like I loved that brand. And I would always see it festivals and like, you know, warp tour and
stuff like that. And so I think that's where I kind of got inspired for the brand. And then,
like, there was there was just no other things happening. So I was like, Well, shit, I'm the
one doing it now cool. Like, and I started just like, being kind of shitty, you know, I would
just like, I, you know, it's going to therapy and all this stuff. And I would like, you know,
kind of that thing where you kind of use therapy terms and like all that stuff and everybody does
it. And so it wasn't until recently that I started just like really opening my eyes and just being
like, fuck you, Ryan, like take the ego out of this shit. You know, like, I think it was like
2019 that I really started to open my eyes and the pandemic just being so isolated. And then
now recently this year, I'm like, fuck off, dude, like this isn't about you, man. It's never been
about you. It's been about the character and it's been about the work and it's been about just like
if your story can help somebody, then that's what's important. And that's kind of my, my,
my path of like the mental health side of it. Yeah, which is incredible because it's like, you're
using past experiences. I mean, trauma helps heal others, right? Self trauma helps heal so many.
And so then you start to romanticize it. Yeah. Is what happens. So you start romanticizing your
trauma and you start using it against people almost. Oh, my trauma is more hurtful than yours
or my or I'm, I'm more pained. And that's just not fair. Like you have to respect other people's
experiences and you have to like be able to respect that like people's depression, anxiety
feels different and it's the most personal thing ever. Like when I'm anxious, I start sweating.
Excuse me. Sorry. I started sweating and getting hot. I can't think straight. I started getting
dizzy, but that's not how someone else's anxiety feels. My depression feels different than other
people's depression. And so like, I think just taking the ego out of it and realizing that like
all I'm supposed to do here is make things and just tell my story and just that's it.
Like really helped because nobody can heal you. It's just not possible. A therapist can't heal
you. A doctor can't heal you. All you can do is do the work and just hopefully you're on a journey
that you can eventually see like see the light I feel like that's been my experience anyway.
And it's crazy too to most people don't get to the point where they're like calling out their own
ego, but you were able to not only like search the healing process, do all this stuff, help get
your story out there, but then also check yourself in the midst of it, which is an incredible twist
to that. It's been hard, man. Like I'm not going to lie. It's been extremely difficult to live in
these emotions and look at the wrongs that I've done in the past. Like I've had to apologize to
exes. I've had to apologize to ex friends. I've had to just really just like, I've just had to
just be honest. And that was the hardest thing for me because I grew up in a and my childhood was
so full of like lying all the time. And and I learned, you know, as an adult, like you grow up
in Vegas, you start working at nightclub. You start, you know what I mean? Like it's easy to get lost
in that kind of be a shitty dude. And I never wanted to admit that I was a shitty dude. I just
never wanted to admit it. And it's like, once you can kind of just be like, you know, maybe I did
hurt somebody and maybe I need to just come to terms with that. And just like the, I think the
most important thing you can do is just be honest because you never want someone to feel like their
experience is negated. For me personally, that's very important. Like I never wanted to negate
someone else's experience in any way. And so if I did something, I want to own up to it. Like
I that if you want to accept that, that's that means the world to me. And if you don't, that's
your journey. And there's nothing I can do about that. And that's been the most freeing thing.
Because like, you know, it's just not up to me anymore. It's just all I can do is just be honest
and try to be as, as honest as possible. Yeah, with all of this, like the growth of your brand
diving into this and this beautiful step into honesty, which can be the most hard thing ever
to have to do. Oh yeah. And then looking at where you've come and where you're headed.
The overarching question, what's next for depressed monsters? I think
I mean, that's so I think I want to be more confident in my designs, right? So like, that's
the most important thing to me is I want to be more confident in what I'm putting out there.
And a lot of that has to do with just researching and studying and just figuring out what my look
and feel is going to be going forward. Because it's to the immediate answer is a rebrand. So I'm
rebranding the entire thing right now. I just I just built a really new website. The best possible
one I was on tour, I would just go to coffee shops and build a website. And the beta version is up
now. It shows the brand in a different way. On desktop, it shows this really cool video that
my buddy Dalton filmed when I was painting a mural to show that it's like this is a clothing brand,
but it's also artist run, which I think is important. Because it's such a you know, it's
different than like other brands. And if you go on mobile, it shows your man one of my sculpts
like spinning, which is cool to show the character and all that stuff. So I think the immediate
answer is a rebrand, and also a regroup, like I want to figure out what it is that I want this brand
to be going into 2024. And so right now I'm working on a winter collection that I'm excited about,
we're going to start doing drops for the first time. I've always like the way I've done my brand
is such like Illuminati Mason, you know, like if you know, you know, type thing, like if you
happen to be on the website, maybe you can pick something up. And so I need to be better about
just like, this is the drop, it includes xyz, you know, if you want it cool, like, thank you for
supporting me. Also, like more varied product selections. So I've been very focused on like
putting a design on a t shirt. And here you go. But now like I'm exploring like, what it is going
forward? Is it like, I don't want to say we are doing this. But if you read between the lines,
like, is it bootleg shoes? Is it jewelry? Is it, you know, what is it? And is it more cut and sew?
Do we have something where it's like, yeah, you can get a $40 t shirt or a mystery bag or whatever.
But I also want to offer $100 cut and sew really cool designer piece because yeah, that's cool.
To me, like I'm super inspired by, I worked in couture for a couple of years there at Zappos,
and I'm super inspired by designers like Vivian Westwood, who, you know, outfitted the sex pistols
and has like this crazy, just cool look. And you know, when you have a Vivian Westwood piece,
I want people to know when they have a depressed monsters piece. So it's, it's almost like the
way I look at it is like, everything leading up to this was the brand growing up. Like it was the
child years, it was the teenage years. Now a depressed monsters is an adult and I need to treat
it as such. Like what is this brand looking like as a grown up? Like I've been fortunate enough to
be doing this for a lot longer than most people. Like running a brand is fucking hard. And it's,
it's not easy. And the fact that I've been able to do this for damn near 10 years now is a testament
to like, yes, hard work, but also like the way people receive the brand and the way people
care about the brand. It's more about, to me, it's more about putting on for the people that have
fucked with me for so long and making them proud. And that's, that's what gets me up in the morning
is like, how can I make stuff that like you're proud to wear and that like, again, from the
Illuminati standpoint, if you see another Euroman on someone's shirt, it's a, you know, you know
type thing. I don't have to be out there putting, I'm depressed and cool on a shirt for you to know
that I'm a mental health brand, because people are doing that and it's so phony. And it's so
goddamn phony to me. And so I never want to devolve the brand into that because to me that is so
lazy and stupid, because you're basically just buying into a social cause at that point. And
I'm sorry, but like, that's not what this brand is. That's not what this brand will ever be. Like,
it is a, if you know the story, if you know the touch points to the brand, that's more important
to me because then it's a lifestyle. And it's, it's, it's something you can grow with along with
me because I'm so open about like my own journey and stuff like that. And so yeah, I don't know,
it's just crazy because like, I try not to get mad or angry about it, but there's just so many brands
that rip me off and do that stuff where it's like, they take like, like I was, dude, I was in
an ocean side, um, two weeks ago for tour, and I'm jogging down the, or I'm walking down the
beach and I see someone in my shirt with the Skella heart on the back and I was like, dude,
that's fucking crazy. Two minutes later, I'm at the coffee shop and I'm working, someone walked by
with a rip off of the Skella heart shirt. It was like a half Skella heart Skella heart. And I was
like, dude, I've had that designed copy written since like 2013, I think. Because again, I'm super
inspired by designer toys. So I was being inspired by cause and anatomy and all that stuff. And so
I can't like take full credit, but it's also like a trademark of my brand. And so it was just crazy,
like the universe, if you pay attention, the universe will show you funny little things like
that. Like to, to be in a different city and see someone skating down the boardwalk in my shirt,
and then immediately after see a rip off of that shirt was like, come on, like that's funny. Like
you got to laugh at that shit. So I think I would have gotten mad about stuff like that before,
but it's also like now it's like a testament to like, all right, just keep fucking doing it, man.
And if, if someone's going to rip you off and do it better than you, then you didn't deserve it in
the first place, I feel like. Yeah. So I'm excited to see what the rebrand looks like. I'm assuming
you're keeping your men as your main guy. Not actually. Yeah. Oh, no. Oh, yeah. Okay. So
yeah, that's kind of, I guess that's the bottom of this podcast. Yeah. So I'm actually
moving a little point. Yeah. Yeah. If you made it all the way here to my crazy ramblings.
Yeah. So I think the big thing is like moving away from just doing your men all the time has
been super freeing. And also like I'm moving more into more of a general look for some stuff of like,
like we already talked about this. It's hard to sell a brand built off of one IP.
So I need to start differentiating this with more characters and also like a trademark look that is
familiar enough, but also uniquely mine. Yeah. And that's what I've been exploring lately. And
it's been really cool and freeing. If you go to the website, depressed monsters.com, you can kind
of see a preview of it. That's just a placeholder, but it's kind of where we're moving and all that
stuff. And yeah, it's been kind of cool. Like, you're men will always be the main character,
but it's like, I'm just tired of using the same year men. Like this has been, I don't, there's
not video on this podcast, but like, if you know my brand at all, you know, like the trademark
year men, like this is the one that everybody knows. And it's, you know, it's the look and feel
of the brand, but it's been like that for 10 years. It's time to kind of like, that is still
the look of the brand, but now it's time to like make it into something a little bit different.
Oh, that's so crazy. To think that this is, it's going to shift a little bit, but
I'm excited to see what's coming because you've got that passion. It's, I know that's the hard
part about this podcast. It doesn't have video. And I just refuse to put video up no matter what,
but the cool thing about it is I get to now say like, no, no, I can see the passion and the glow
and the like blow up that's happening on screen right now about how excited you are for what's
next. That's, that's a very sweet couple. You're a very, very nice person. Thank you. That's very
sweet. So I had two little glimpses from all the things that you've talked about today that I
wanted to share. One, when I was in high school, Obey wasn't huge. He was still in his wall art
phase and what's shepherd fairy? Is that his name? Yep. He hung. So I grew up in Fresno,
California, small podunk town. There was an Obey, Obey piece that he put up. I guess he was going
through and it was on the side of like this weird, I don't know if it was like a, like a small building
or like a giant electrical thing, whatever, but it was there and then, but no one, he wasn't huge
in Fresno and it got taken down, which is so crazy. Huge in Fresno is a great brand name if
anybody wants to steal that. There you go. Huge in Fresno. Yeah, exactly. Excuse me. That's crazy,
dude. Yeah. And we, like I've gone back several times. There's not even remnants of it. And I,
like everything in me is like someone probably figured out how to get it off the wall and took
it or some destructive hick of a person that like lives in Fresno was like, this can't be here. And
like, yeah, ripped it off. It's crazy. Cause if you, if you go on eBay, sometimes you'll see people
list like ones that have taken off the walls and stuff. And they're kind of cool to see. I remember
when I was working downtown in Vegas in like 2012, 2013 timeframe, he came through on just one of his
tours or whatever. And he put, he got up on this crazy spot that was on the side of a building
and nobody touched it. It was there for years until the sun destroyed it. And it was like a,
it was like a statement piece. And I was like, fuck man, that's so cool. And then now years later,
I think in like 2018, 2019, he was invited to do like a huge piece on the side of his place called
emergency arts. And it's like, now it's just like, it's cool to see the respect given to him
because he deserves it. I mean, the dude is just a monster when it comes to this game.
It's cool seeing artists do that, like Invader. Yeah, I love Invader. Yeah. It has
a couple pieces in San Diego, but you don't know where like he has that app where you can like find
all the different ones. There's some stuff that goes along with it, but I don't have the app. So
I only see them if I'm just randomly looking up. And so to see that on the wall and be like, oh,
that's cool. And then not tell anyone about it is my favorite thing. Like that's just me.
Yeah, that's cool. I know. And he's like, I know his stuff goes for like millions on
auction blocks and stuff. And it's just there in public. It's so cool. Number two, Tony Shea,
and it's cool to hear how close you were with him. His book has forever changed how I do everything,
delivering happiness. It has forever changed how I care for people forever changed how my job
functions as I look to like what people need, how I can serve them and just like how I serve my own
soul and even parts of how I correct certain people when they are like, Hey, what do you think
about this? It's like one of his things is like never outsource your core competency. So like if
you're really good at doing this thing, like stop trying to get other people to do it because
you're too lazy, like do that. Yep. And you really do know his stuff. That's awesome. Yeah. And so
it's cool. Like full circle, like we read it in like 2016. And so full circle did I have you on
in 2023 where it's like someone that knew him firsthand and then being able to say like, Oh,
this guy forever changed me. So it's, it's cool. I think, and I think he's become a part of my
story with the brand now too, which is, which is wild. I never, I just always thought he'd be here.
You know, I think that's like the, like I'm trying not to cry right now, but like, it's sad. Like
you just always think that a person of like that caliber is just always going to be there in your
corner. Yeah. You know, and then he, you know, what happened to him is so tragic and it could
happen to any of us. And you know, it sucks to like read hit pieces about him now, you know,
and you're like, dude, that was like, you have no idea. And like, I've been, you know, I shared a video
around the time that happened of just sharing my experiences and be like, I'll miss you forever,
buddy, like whatever. And like, all of a sudden to get hit, hit up by like reporters looking for
like an exclusive, like, fuck you, like, no, this is, this is not a story that is that we want to
tell. And it was interesting to see like, like I got a lot of flack for sharing my story because
I think the thing about Tony is that like, he was such a powerful beam of light that people
wanted to contain it. And people wanted to bottle it up and keep it for themselves. And you saw that
in this afterlife too, because like, I didn't know this, but I guess there was a ton of people
that were mad at me because I shared my story, like, you weren't friends with them, you didn't do,
I go, I just shared my personal experiences with them. I never said anything other than like,
this is what we had, like, and I think that's okay to do, right? But it is just funny how like,
death can bring out the worst in people sometimes. And it's, it's, it's so sad because all that man
wanted was for people to be happy and loved and find their tribe. That was his big, he was a burning
man guy, you know, like, he just loved people. He just loved people. And if you read his book,
you read his book, you read about like the Vegas tech stuff, like I was there for all of that stuff,
like fringe, you know, for a lot of it, but I was also there. And like, just to see like,
inviting entrepreneurs out and to, you know, come out and, hey, if you have an idea, I want to,
I want to put money behind it. And he was just childlike. And that's what I loved about him.
Is it like, that's what I try to retain in my own work is like, keep the childlike wonder.
And I feel like the rest will follow, essentially. And I just learned so many lessons from him.
And just even the smallest things that he did and like, I don't know, like he just, he just really
was a special, special human being. And him and my grandpa were so similar in that sense that like,
they both just wanted people to be loved and happy. And I've always really affiliated myself
with that. I use humor as a way to like bridge the gap with people and stuff. And obviously,
I haven't been funny on this podcast, because this is more of a serious conversation. But like,
I think that like, for a lot of us, like Robin Williams, Anthony Bourdain, Tony, my grandpa,
whoever, a lot of us use that to make people feel accepted and loved when really we might be hurting
on the inside too. And then it's not until afterwards you go, Oh, I didn't know, I didn't
know they were experiencing that things, you know, and it's like, just, you know, if you have someone
in your life that maybe is doing that, maybe tell them you love them, you know, maybe just tell them
how much they mean to you, or maybe just tell them that they're, they're good how they are. Because,
you know, sometimes I wish I was told that and I think all of us do. And it's an important thing
to do. Yeah, the hard part is people that are connectors like that or loving or are just like
walking beams of light. Yeah, they help you forget the fragility of life. So you think that like,
man, they're going to be here forever. And then with the fragility of life gets them. It's like,
man, that was unfair. Like that is unreal. Yeah. Yeah, it's like, you know, I went through so much
strife with this and dealing with this, where I was like, why him, why not me? You know what I
mean? Like, just shit like that, because he just had so much to give. He had so much more to give
the world. And it sucks that that was robbed from not only him, but us, because he was just getting
started, man, like he was ready to he was ready to go off from Zappos and start doing other work
in the world. And, you know, you're exactly right, the fragility of life affected him in a way that
doesn't affect some other people. And life's hard, man, like, I don't look down on anybody with
addiction issues, I don't look down on anybody for nothing, man, like addiction happens, drug
addiction happens, emotional addiction happens, all these things happen. And I just come out of
from a place of, I'm sorry, you're like, it's it's hard to get through life, you know, it really is.
And I miss that dude a lot. And it's nice to have conversations like this to just like,
you know, remind myself about them, but also like even at Comic Con, I was talking to somebody,
because I didn't know anybody at these events that I went to, I just had to put on my cap and go,
I'm going to make friends, I just have to at this point. And I was at this, the fandom party,
which is like, it's like the big party of Comic Con or whatever, I got lucky enough to go to.
And I saw a guy dressed as the Mad Hatter, and I was like, that's my guy. And so I went over
and I was like, Hey, man, like, good, you know, whatever. Turns out he worked for the Con, but
also turns out his wife used to work for a company that was heavily inspired by Zappos, and she
almost worked at Zappos. And so we just started talking, she loved Tony, like the same, all this
stuff. And we actually took a Furnet shot in honor of Tony at Comic Con, because his legacy lives on.
And to me, again, like I've said this before in the podcast already, but like, I'm a big
believer in the universe shows you a path. And that was Tony speaking to me from beyond like these,
he his big phrase for us was serendipitous collisions. That's what he truly believed.
And he designed the Zappos building in a way that you can only enter from like two or three areas.
So that way you were forced to walk in with people and have conversations and make new friends.
He was just a, he was just a beautiful person. He was just a, he was always thinking about
how can I make people more comfortable? How can I make people feel, you know, alive and happy?
And even things like that, you know, like, who thinks of that? Who thinks to buy an old city
hall and close off all the entrances? So you have to enter from two areas to make new friends.
It's insane. It's just beautiful. And I try to carry that on in my work. Whenever I have to do
customer service side of things, I always try to make sure that I think of Zappos. And I always
put so many freebies. And if you order from my brand, I always put so much free stuff in there
just because you're, you're, you know, supporting me, how can I support you as my, is my big mantra
with this brand? And, you know, I just don't want that to ever be lost. Like I, I, I, like I said,
I didn't go to art school, but I fucking went to business school, man. And that was Zappos.com.
Dude, like, and I got lucky that my professor was one of the best to ever do it.
Yeah. So incredible. Dude, I thank you so much for coming on toys on tap today.
Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, it's been great.
The last part of the podcast I like to split. And it's just the last piece that I love to
give the artist where you get to plug everything that's coming up, how people can get in contact
with you, where we can buy your stuff, all that stuff. So, okay. Will you make me a promise?
Oh, yeah, I guess so. Okay. If I announce something on this show, I, you need to promise me that you
won't just slice that part and put it up. Like if people, I want people to just find this part
if they listen to the whole thing. Oh, deal. I don't slice any of my episodes up for that reason.
Yeah, cool. Because this has been something I've been nervous to announce. Okay. First of all,
you can find me at depressed monsters, pretty much all social platforms. Instagram is the main one
for me. Probably start making a TikTok push next year. Because fuck TikTok, but unfortunately,
we have to be there. And so you can find me at all that stuff. You depressed monsters.com,
if you want to buy stuff, I do a weekly live stream shopping experience. So it's every Thursday
at 7pm Pacific Standard Time, where you can just come hang out with me. We do a lot of fun stuff.
Like behind me, I have a vintage mood analyzer. So on the stream, I will analyze your mood.
It's really fun. Like it's really fun. I try to make them goofy and like an experience. You know,
because you're spending a couple hours with me, like the least I can do is make it fun for you.
And I'm super inspired by Peewee's Playhouse. And I always have been. And so like I try to make it
like that's why I have this backdrop with like a giant pretzel and the big stuff like that. Like,
I just want it to be fun for people. So the big announcement, I guess, is that
that during the pandemic, I was, you know, feeling lost. I was feeling lonely. And I had an opportunity
to submit for a reality show. And I was like, Oh, this will never happen. Like whatever,
it's like a goofy dating show. I was like, I just want to get out of the house. Turns out I got
picked and I filmed for two months in Vancouver. And it's like, it's just like this super frigging
goofy, like dating show or whatever. But I look at everything that I do is performance art. So
it's almost like a performance art piece for me. It was never supposed to be released ever. But
because the writer strike, they're releasing all these shows. And so it's coming out next week,
August 15th on MTV. If you go on MTV, the commercials coming up every like 20 minutes. And
I'm in the promo looking, I am in the promo saying I'm done and walking off. So I guess I'm
going to be the drama of the show. But the exciting part for me is that I got to wear my
depressed monsters hoodie on like some key parts of the show. So I'm hoping that people discover
the brand that way. And it's not like over, it's not beating it over your head. It's just like,
Hey, if you, if you like me and you want to see the brand, like there it is. And so yeah, it just,
it was born out of basically necessity to survive and do something different. And like I said,
I treat everything in my life as performance art and everything is art. And so this is now a
performance art piece that I did two years ago that just happens to be on MTV now.
I'm not splicing shit. So basically, if you got made it to the end of the show, I hope that like,
you know, tune in or if you want, it's going to be, it's definitely different than anything I've
done in the past. Awesome. Dude, I cannot wait. This comes out on Monday. So it's like the perfect
yes. And then that comes out on Tuesday. So yeah, it's a perfect timing for it. Perfect. Perfect.
Dude, thank you. And I'll post, I'll post like, Hey, like made a big announcement in this one,
but you got to make it to the end to hear it or whatever. I need to release it, dude. Like,
I haven't released anything on social about it because I'm scared because obviously that changes
how people like perceive me, right? Like now it's a different thing. And I love this time
where it's like, I know something and you don't. And like, I don't want to be perceived as like
whatever, you know, I just want to be perceived as an artist. And it does change that a little bit.
But I think I can do a good job of being like, this is a performance art piece. Like I did this
out of necessity, blah, blah, blah. So we'll see what happens. I don't know. It's just so funny.
I think that's the selling point. If it becomes actually who you are and who you become is this
like role you played. Man, depressed monsters is going to take a weird turn in the future.
It's going to take a weird turn, bro. I know. I know. Oh my God. But I'm ready. You know,
like I said, the universe provides whatever I'm just on the path, man, like I have no, I don't
know where anything's heading. I'm just here. I'm just here enjoying the ride. So every day that I
get to wake up and my bills are paid, that's that's a blessing. And if I can help someone along the
way, then that's cool too. Long live Tony Shea. Long live Tony Shea. And I can tell you on this
side of it, we are blessed because you are here, live in life. So thank you, bro. That's dude,
you are. I want to do another one of these pockets just to talk to you. You are like the
nicest person on the planet. Hey, I'm always game. I'm always game for that. I love doing this.
I'm always game. We'll bring you back on after you do full rebrand and everything.
Yeah, we'll come back on sounds good. And then you're always welcome on that Twitch stream that
I do with with the dudes. I'm not usually on it anymore, but Josh loved to interview you. I'm
sure we you know, I think I might have sent them a message about it. Not that long, maybe a year
ago, maybe it has been a long time. But it's hard to figure out how you collab on things,
especially stuff like that. I agree. Yeah, it's easy now because you just let me know if you want
to do it and I'll send a text message to it. And you can be on it this week if you want.
Let me think about it because I think that's yeah. Yeah, why not dude? It's fun. Like they're
easy to talk to again. I kind of quit. I kind of quit doing it just because of my own, you know,
burnout and mental health stuff, but they're still doing it and I'm sure they'd love to have you.
Dude, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you again for coming on.
Yeah, dude. Thank you so much, man. This has honestly been, I would say the most
freeing podcast I've ever done just because you have really good energy to you and positivity. And
you can always tell when someone's a good person and I appreciate the nice things you say. It really
meant a lot to me. So thank you.
Thank you.