WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.480 Welcome to Spiralling, the podcast where guests 00:00:02.480 --> 00:00:05.839 share the problems, insecurities and festering 00:00:05.839 --> 00:00:08.240 little brain worms that they just can't get out 00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:11.140 of their heads. I'm Zara Gladman. I'm not a therapist, 00:00:11.199 --> 00:00:13.500 but people like to tell me their problems and 00:00:13.500 --> 00:00:15.980 I like to record them for content. Together, 00:00:16.140 --> 00:00:18.140 we'll try to get to the bottom of what's really 00:00:18.140 --> 00:00:21.199 going on and with any luck, stop spiralling. 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:40.479 Let's go! Hello! Welcome to episode two of Spiralling. 00:00:40.659 --> 00:00:42.859 We officially have more than one episode which 00:00:42.859 --> 00:00:46.780 means we are a legit podcast now, I would say. 00:00:46.920 --> 00:00:50.560 Thank you so much for the really lovely responses 00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:53.560 to episode one and an even bigger thanks if you've 00:00:53.560 --> 00:00:56.159 come back for episode two it's really feeding 00:00:56.159 --> 00:00:59.240 my sense of self -worth so i appreciate that 00:00:59.240 --> 00:01:02.060 i was going to record today's episode from the 00:01:02.060 --> 00:01:05.459 highlands because i'm going to be in sky i'm 00:01:05.459 --> 00:01:08.200 going to be in the area up and around malague 00:01:08.200 --> 00:01:10.019 so that's where i'll be as you're listening to 00:01:10.019 --> 00:01:12.439 this however i don't know where i'm staying i 00:01:12.439 --> 00:01:14.799 don't know the wi -fi situation and i can't be 00:01:14.799 --> 00:01:18.870 arsed lugging my laptop with me. So I've decided 00:01:18.870 --> 00:01:22.549 to play it safe and record this in Glasgow before 00:01:22.549 --> 00:01:25.069 I head off tomorrow morning. But as I said, if 00:01:25.069 --> 00:01:27.150 you're listening to this now, I am somewhere 00:01:27.150 --> 00:01:30.629 in that vicinity doing God knows what. It's for 00:01:30.629 --> 00:01:33.409 that TV project that I mentioned before, which 00:01:33.409 --> 00:01:38.150 is a lot of fun. Evelyn Hollow is in it as well. 00:01:38.150 --> 00:01:40.890 If you know her, she is actually a podcasting 00:01:40.890 --> 00:01:43.650 icon and a total ledge. So shout out to Evelyn. 00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:46.760 What else have I been up to? I've been watching 00:01:46.760 --> 00:01:50.019 the Dallas, Texas Cowboy Cheerleader documentary 00:01:50.019 --> 00:01:53.879 series. I've got one episode left to go. If you 00:01:53.879 --> 00:01:57.859 don't know it, highly recommend. So well made, 00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:01.780 very compelling, beautiful cinematography. Speaking 00:02:01.780 --> 00:02:04.200 of cinematography, today's guest is a filmmaker, 00:02:04.640 --> 00:02:07.739 Martin Clark. I've known Martin for a number 00:02:07.739 --> 00:02:10.479 of years. I met him originally through my partner, 00:02:10.539 --> 00:02:12.539 but as it turns out, I have loads of mutual friends. 00:02:13.039 --> 00:02:15.759 He's very well known, I would say, in Glasgow. 00:02:16.199 --> 00:02:20.719 He's very funny, great company, and he's very 00:02:20.719 --> 00:02:23.860 discerning when it comes to music and art and 00:02:23.860 --> 00:02:26.740 film. So I really enjoy talking to him and I'm 00:02:26.740 --> 00:02:29.659 sure you will as well. Martin is finishing up 00:02:29.659 --> 00:02:33.060 his first feature film called Public House. And 00:02:33.060 --> 00:02:35.639 from what I've seen of it, The Little Tasters 00:02:35.639 --> 00:02:39.750 Online, it looks excellent. So I'm really looking 00:02:39.750 --> 00:02:42.030 forward to when that comes out. And you'll hear 00:02:42.030 --> 00:02:44.389 in our conversation, we do touch on it a wee 00:02:44.389 --> 00:02:47.629 bit, and Martin's creative process. The film 00:02:47.629 --> 00:02:50.610 is filmed in a pub in Glasgow Southside, so I'm 00:02:50.610 --> 00:02:52.729 sure that'll be of interest to some people listening. 00:02:52.949 --> 00:02:55.629 Before I hand over to Martin, a reminder, I am 00:02:55.629 --> 00:02:58.330 doing The Fringe one day only. Still tickets 00:02:58.330 --> 00:03:00.729 available. Would be great to see you there on 00:03:00.729 --> 00:03:03.789 the 12th of August at the Cabaret Voltaire with 00:03:03.789 --> 00:03:14.430 Monkey Barrow. Okay, let's spiral. Okay, anyway, 00:03:14.650 --> 00:03:17.789 welcome Martin to the podcast. Hello. Have you 00:03:17.789 --> 00:03:19.889 done a podcast before? No, I haven't actually. 00:03:20.009 --> 00:03:23.030 Have you not? Wow. Yeah, I'm very excited. Oh 00:03:23.030 --> 00:03:26.270 my God. I'm quite new to podcasts in terms of 00:03:26.270 --> 00:03:28.669 making a podcast, but I've been on a lot of podcasts 00:03:28.669 --> 00:03:31.789 and I've been a lot of, I think all of them have 00:03:31.789 --> 00:03:34.110 been video podcasts, mostly. I think there's 00:03:34.110 --> 00:03:37.449 one that wasn't. And I can see why people... 00:03:37.629 --> 00:03:40.210 record it, you know, to create clips and like 00:03:40.210 --> 00:03:42.490 promote it and stuff. But the clips then end 00:03:42.490 --> 00:03:44.990 up on social media and then sometimes things 00:03:44.990 --> 00:03:48.270 are taken out of context or you say stuff that 00:03:48.270 --> 00:03:50.270 you regret. I don't really know where I'm going 00:03:50.270 --> 00:03:52.750 with this. Be comfortable and don't worry about 00:03:52.750 --> 00:03:53.849 what you're going to say because it's just going 00:03:53.849 --> 00:03:54.669 to be audio. One of the things I'm most worried 00:03:54.669 --> 00:03:56.449 about is saying something that I regret. So thanks 00:03:56.449 --> 00:03:58.250 for reminding me of that. Yeah, let's try and 00:03:58.250 --> 00:04:00.210 not get cancelled. I trust you in the edit. For 00:04:00.210 --> 00:04:04.030 people that don't know you, you are a filmmaker, 00:04:04.370 --> 00:04:08.199 correct? Yes. I've seen a couple of your films. 00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:11.020 I actually re -watched Jealous Alan. I did homework 00:04:11.020 --> 00:04:15.060 ahead of today. It's very funny still. Thanks. 00:04:15.159 --> 00:04:17.720 But for people that don't know your films, how 00:04:17.720 --> 00:04:21.240 would you describe the work that you do? I would 00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:25.379 say I try to make films that are kind of poetic 00:04:25.379 --> 00:04:28.699 realism, I would say. So I think when I first 00:04:28.699 --> 00:04:32.800 started making films, I was, you know, always... 00:04:33.050 --> 00:04:34.930 leaning into the comedy and trying to make people 00:04:34.930 --> 00:04:38.250 laugh. But as I've gone on, I've discovered that 00:04:38.250 --> 00:04:40.709 actually you should actually concentrate on all 00:04:40.709 --> 00:04:42.990 the other emotions and the comedy will just come. 00:04:43.269 --> 00:04:45.230 It's just better for the writing and you make 00:04:45.230 --> 00:04:47.410 a better film at the end of the day. My favourite 00:04:47.410 --> 00:04:49.889 comedy isn't just pure gags anyway and you've 00:04:49.889 --> 00:04:53.589 got a bit of pathos or... Laughing and crying. 00:04:53.629 --> 00:04:55.430 Laughing and crying, that's the ultimate thing. 00:04:55.689 --> 00:04:58.170 Or even, you know, both at the same time, which 00:04:58.170 --> 00:05:00.470 is the ultimate. You're working on a film just 00:05:00.470 --> 00:05:02.660 now, aren't you? Yeah, almost finished it, yeah. 00:05:02.779 --> 00:05:04.680 Almost finished. So what stage, what are you 00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:06.480 up to at the moment with it? It's called Public 00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:08.500 House and we've been making it for the past three 00:05:08.500 --> 00:05:12.000 years and we're at the post -production stage. 00:05:12.079 --> 00:05:16.579 So the edit is locked in and we're working on 00:05:16.579 --> 00:05:19.740 the sound design and the grading and finishing 00:05:19.740 --> 00:05:22.939 up the music. Exciting. So it's Public House. 00:05:22.980 --> 00:05:25.040 It's set in a pub, isn't it? Yeah, it's set in 00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:28.100 Heritage Bar and Pollockshaws Road in the South 00:05:28.100 --> 00:05:31.610 Side. And was that a pub that you went to before 00:05:31.610 --> 00:05:34.110 you decided to make the film? Yeah, I knew the 00:05:34.110 --> 00:05:37.170 pub. It's a really beautiful pub. It's very small 00:05:37.170 --> 00:05:40.970 and self -contained. But basically one of the 00:05:40.970 --> 00:05:44.089 actresses that is in Jealous Alan, Alicia Welsh, 00:05:44.389 --> 00:05:48.990 her grandfather is Mickey Joe Herity, hence the 00:05:48.990 --> 00:05:52.709 name MJ Herity. And her mum still runs the pub 00:05:52.709 --> 00:05:55.730 and she still works in the pub. So that was the 00:05:55.730 --> 00:05:57.790 connection of how we started filming in there. 00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:00.360 I know a little bit about the film. I've supported 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:03.779 your crowdfunder to help with the distribution 00:06:03.779 --> 00:06:07.560 and stuff. But what's the pitch for the film 00:06:07.560 --> 00:06:10.100 then? Give us an idea of what it's about. Yeah, 00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:14.100 it's a series of... Alicia, she plays a landlady, 00:06:14.100 --> 00:06:17.540 so she's in more scenes than anyone else. But 00:06:17.540 --> 00:06:21.540 it is a sequence of vignettes where some characters 00:06:21.540 --> 00:06:26.170 repeat and are... back and out a few times, but 00:06:26.170 --> 00:06:28.050 some characters are just in for a single scene. 00:06:28.209 --> 00:06:31.410 So it's just different characters coming and 00:06:31.410 --> 00:06:34.810 going, or just there, just like real life in 00:06:34.810 --> 00:06:37.750 a pub. So your films, you say they're kind of, 00:06:37.790 --> 00:06:40.029 what was that term that you used, the realism 00:06:40.029 --> 00:06:43.949 term? Poetic realism. Poetic realism. So where 00:06:43.949 --> 00:06:46.829 does the realism come from? Is it personal experiences 00:06:46.829 --> 00:06:49.430 that you're putting into your writing, or is 00:06:49.430 --> 00:06:51.720 it... things that you've observed outside of 00:06:51.720 --> 00:06:54.199 yourself? Both of those things. Yeah, both of 00:06:54.199 --> 00:06:56.959 those things. Yeah, I think if you just start 00:06:56.959 --> 00:06:59.120 with the emotion, if you start with the emotion 00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:02.500 and then think of a character, or you can think 00:07:02.500 --> 00:07:04.459 of a character first is one of the best ways 00:07:04.459 --> 00:07:06.040 to do it. Think of a character first and then 00:07:06.040 --> 00:07:08.279 put them in a situation and ask yourself how 00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:10.519 they feel about it and then write that and then 00:07:10.519 --> 00:07:12.639 bring someone else in and see if they feel the 00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:14.939 same thing or they feel the opposite thing. It's 00:07:14.939 --> 00:07:17.279 easier if they're... opposite even in a very 00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:20.319 subtle way because um and then you can get a 00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:22.699 little bit of conflict in some ways i'm not mad 00:07:22.699 --> 00:07:25.160 keen on like big masses of conflict and stuff 00:07:25.160 --> 00:07:27.540 about it's just little little disagreements or 00:07:27.540 --> 00:07:29.959 different ways of thinking and what you always 00:07:29.959 --> 00:07:32.920 need to remember is i guess this is also a realist 00:07:32.920 --> 00:07:35.079 part is like when people are actually in conversation 00:07:35.079 --> 00:07:37.540 they're very rarely saying what they actually 00:07:37.540 --> 00:07:39.839 mean you always remember that and that's a really 00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:41.839 good note to give actors as well as words are 00:07:41.839 --> 00:07:45.910 just words but so subtext is really key as well 00:07:45.910 --> 00:07:48.089 to what i'm trying to do especially in scotland 00:07:48.089 --> 00:07:51.050 how is it directing actors i've never really 00:07:51.050 --> 00:07:54.689 done much of that you know so you've got a rapport 00:07:54.689 --> 00:07:56.949 with them are you you know how did you find these 00:07:56.949 --> 00:07:59.129 actors in the first place a lot of them i worked 00:07:59.129 --> 00:08:02.970 with before and some of them i really admired 00:08:02.970 --> 00:08:06.670 their work and i wrote a scene with particularly 00:08:06.670 --> 00:08:09.189 with them in mind or i had an idea for a character 00:08:09.189 --> 00:08:11.250 or there was some other writers on the film as 00:08:11.250 --> 00:08:14.740 well so who wrote scenes So when they wrote the 00:08:14.740 --> 00:08:17.040 scenes, I had an idea for an actor then. So when 00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:18.779 I went to the actor, I was like, this is for 00:08:18.779 --> 00:08:21.459 you. Actors love that. And have you never thought 00:08:21.459 --> 00:08:23.939 about putting yourself in any of your films or 00:08:23.939 --> 00:08:25.680 have you ever done that? I am in it, but I'm 00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:27.860 just an extra. I'm just an extra in it. I don't 00:08:27.860 --> 00:08:30.480 have any spoken words in it. Maybe one day we'll 00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:33.580 see if somebody, you know, phones in sick or 00:08:33.580 --> 00:08:43.000 something. This is a podcast about feeling anxious 00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:45.679 and spiraling and overthinking. You don't strike 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:48.320 me as someone who's much of a warrior. Are you 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:51.360 a warrior? Yes. You are. You're just someone 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:54.940 who pushes it deep down. Yes. So it's not noticeable. 00:08:55.620 --> 00:08:58.620 Yeah, I suppose so, but I definitely am. But 00:08:58.620 --> 00:09:00.779 that's so interesting you say that because I 00:09:00.779 --> 00:09:03.710 thought I did show it. But maybe not. I don't 00:09:03.710 --> 00:09:07.250 know. You just seem quite relaxed to me. Anytime 00:09:07.250 --> 00:09:08.950 I've met you, you just seem quite chilled out. 00:09:09.110 --> 00:09:11.490 But maybe not. Maybe if I spoke to other people, 00:09:11.629 --> 00:09:14.129 they would disagree. Yeah, I think I do come 00:09:14.129 --> 00:09:17.129 across as that. But I guess you make the decision 00:09:17.129 --> 00:09:20.350 in those situations, you know, when it's a social 00:09:20.350 --> 00:09:22.450 situation, that that's what you're going to do. 00:09:23.750 --> 00:09:27.049 But work situations, I mean, I think it's the 00:09:27.049 --> 00:09:30.259 same with anybody that's working in... the creative 00:09:30.259 --> 00:09:33.059 industry, try to be creative or do anything whatsoever, 00:09:33.340 --> 00:09:37.879 it's always difficult. I just watched a rough 00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:40.340 cut of the documentary about Thomas Joshua Cooper 00:09:40.340 --> 00:09:45.720 yesterday morning. And he was a teacher of mine 00:09:45.720 --> 00:09:48.320 at art school and a hero of mine, to be honest. 00:09:48.559 --> 00:09:50.899 And he said a great line in the film, which is, 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:55.039 the thing I worry about most is self -delusion 00:09:55.039 --> 00:10:00.090 above all else. is that marissa murdoch's film 00:10:00.090 --> 00:10:03.090 yeah yeah yeah and i just thought i laughed i 00:10:03.090 --> 00:10:04.690 think it was only one of the cinema that laughed 00:10:04.690 --> 00:10:07.309 but i really laughed at that because i just thought 00:10:07.309 --> 00:10:08.990 it was just such a brilliant thing to say and 00:10:08.990 --> 00:10:12.210 just so honest you know it's like it's like because 00:10:12.210 --> 00:10:14.409 at the end of the day there has to be an element 00:10:14.409 --> 00:10:16.169 of self -delusion if you're going to create anything 00:10:16.169 --> 00:10:18.549 i think it's so true that sometimes i feel like 00:10:18.549 --> 00:10:21.330 i need to be more deluded in order to get stuff 00:10:21.330 --> 00:10:25.049 done because even just this like buying podcast 00:10:25.049 --> 00:10:28.009 cast equipment and like setting up a sort of 00:10:28.009 --> 00:10:30.389 whatever this is a little studio it does feel 00:10:30.389 --> 00:10:33.730 a bit cringe in a way like what you're trying 00:10:33.730 --> 00:10:37.409 to do but you know that everything starts that 00:10:37.409 --> 00:10:40.029 way doesn't it yeah of course definitely and 00:10:40.029 --> 00:10:42.809 also you have to um and it's not it's something 00:10:42.809 --> 00:10:45.110 you learn you have to learn quite young it's 00:10:45.110 --> 00:10:46.850 just because you make something a bit shit doesn't 00:10:46.850 --> 00:10:49.529 make you a bit shit but that's you don't stop 00:10:49.529 --> 00:10:51.690 learning that you have to you have to keep reminding 00:10:51.690 --> 00:10:53.769 yourself that basically for the rest of your 00:10:53.769 --> 00:10:56.549 entire life yeah i guess that's the danger and 00:10:56.549 --> 00:10:58.629 if you surround yourself with people that will 00:10:58.629 --> 00:11:01.529 bring you down back down and keep you right do 00:11:01.529 --> 00:11:03.169 you have that do you have people that you share 00:11:03.169 --> 00:11:05.850 stuff with that are going to be honest and yeah 00:11:05.850 --> 00:11:07.970 i think so yeah yeah yeah i think i do have that 00:11:07.970 --> 00:11:11.389 but then even that though is still it's still 00:11:11.389 --> 00:11:13.269 it's still different you still never really you 00:11:13.269 --> 00:11:15.830 can only really go with your own choice at the 00:11:15.830 --> 00:11:18.220 end of the day yeah That's true. You can ask 00:11:18.220 --> 00:11:21.379 even like the most critical people that you know 00:11:21.379 --> 00:11:24.179 and who will tell the truth. Will it still really 00:11:24.179 --> 00:11:26.799 be the truth? I don't know. You can only really 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:30.600 go with eventually it comes down to it. You have 00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:33.659 to make the decision and you can get advice on 00:11:33.659 --> 00:11:36.320 that, but you just have to really look into yourself 00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:39.500 and really think, am I enjoying this or not? 00:11:39.720 --> 00:11:42.539 Am I confident enough to show this to people? 00:11:42.980 --> 00:11:46.970 Yeah. Or not? You can also just ask. as many 00:11:46.970 --> 00:11:48.750 people as you can until they give you the answer 00:11:48.750 --> 00:11:52.190 that you want to hear. Which I used to do quite 00:11:52.190 --> 00:11:55.210 a lot of. Yeah. Like, should I send this text? 00:11:55.549 --> 00:11:58.690 And everyone's like, no. Yeah. But you just keep 00:11:58.690 --> 00:12:00.909 asking, find someone else who's also deluded. 00:12:01.190 --> 00:12:03.809 Yeah. I mean, I think when I first started writing 00:12:03.809 --> 00:12:06.429 scripts, because I made documentaries at first, 00:12:06.450 --> 00:12:07.789 and when I first started writing and writing 00:12:07.789 --> 00:12:10.509 scripts, I was like chucking them about willy 00:12:10.509 --> 00:12:13.330 -nilly for everyone to read. And I realise now 00:12:13.330 --> 00:12:16.519 that was a big mistake because, you know, I should 00:12:16.519 --> 00:12:18.860 have waited first till I was happy to share it. 00:12:19.019 --> 00:12:23.860 Right, okay. I think my insecurity was feeling 00:12:23.860 --> 00:12:26.080 I needed feedback before I went any further. 00:12:26.179 --> 00:12:28.360 I needed someone to say, hey, this is great. 00:12:28.620 --> 00:12:30.500 I mean, I knew myself it wasn't good, so you 00:12:30.500 --> 00:12:36.159 just have to wait. Do I think this is good? It's 00:12:36.159 --> 00:12:38.039 so hard if you're writing on your own as well 00:12:38.039 --> 00:12:40.580 and you don't have anyone to bounce off. But 00:12:40.580 --> 00:12:43.490 of course, nowadays people have chat GPT. Yeah, 00:12:43.490 --> 00:12:46.250 I've never used that. I think the whole thing 00:12:46.250 --> 00:12:49.350 about it is it's really sycophantic. So if you 00:12:49.350 --> 00:12:51.110 did share something with it, it would probably 00:12:51.110 --> 00:12:54.330 be like, that's brilliant. Send it off. Oh, really? 00:12:54.429 --> 00:12:57.330 I don't even know how to work it. Have you not 00:12:57.330 --> 00:13:00.009 used it at all? No. Oh, that's good. It is evil. 00:13:00.350 --> 00:13:04.470 Yeah. I mean, it scared me right from day one, 00:13:04.549 --> 00:13:08.370 actually, when I first saw things like photographs 00:13:08.370 --> 00:13:11.769 of bars in Glasgow in the 80s. And I was like, 00:13:11.789 --> 00:13:13.440 wow. why have I never seen these photographs 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:15.419 before? And then somebody said it was AI and 00:13:15.419 --> 00:13:17.419 I was really confused by the whole thing. It 00:13:17.419 --> 00:13:19.860 is so upsetting when that happens and you're 00:13:19.860 --> 00:13:21.600 really excited as well to see something like 00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:23.039 that. And it's just not real. And then that was 00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:24.879 before even all the text stuff and the writing 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:28.419 stuff. But yeah, so I'm just wondering if I can 00:13:28.419 --> 00:13:30.179 just get away with never engaging with it ever. 00:13:30.740 --> 00:13:33.899 Well, I think there's the illusion of choice 00:13:33.899 --> 00:13:37.299 now and whether you're trying to go to the bank 00:13:37.299 --> 00:13:39.600 or you're doing anything these days, chances 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:41.360 are you might be speaking to some kind of... 00:13:41.690 --> 00:13:44.190 AI bot. Yeah, and well, I know it's in Google, 00:13:44.230 --> 00:13:46.269 it comes up. Yeah, well, that, yeah, exactly. 00:13:46.289 --> 00:13:48.190 So I am using it. You are, unfortunately, it's 00:13:48.190 --> 00:13:50.090 the first thing it summarises, it's really annoying. 00:13:50.210 --> 00:13:52.750 And often it's not, like, accurate either. Yeah, 00:13:52.809 --> 00:13:55.289 yeah, exactly, exactly. Especially when you're, 00:13:55.289 --> 00:13:59.429 you know, self -diagnosing something. Yeah, which 00:13:59.429 --> 00:14:04.309 is the main thing. Which I never do. No. Speaking 00:14:04.309 --> 00:14:10.750 of anxiety. Anxiety. So, You've brought with 00:14:10.750 --> 00:14:15.049 you today a spiral for us to discuss. Would you 00:14:15.049 --> 00:14:18.009 like to share what that is? Yeah, I guess it's 00:14:18.009 --> 00:14:20.289 already connected a little bit to what we're 00:14:20.289 --> 00:14:23.929 talking about. I guess it's to do with status 00:14:23.929 --> 00:14:28.850 and age and being a late developer and peers. 00:14:29.110 --> 00:14:33.669 I find all these things really confusing, like 00:14:33.669 --> 00:14:36.330 about who are your peers? I don't know who my 00:14:36.330 --> 00:14:41.320 peers are. Is this in a creative context, not 00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:43.580 a personal context? Not a personal context. But 00:14:43.580 --> 00:14:45.840 even it's kind of linked in that that's also 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:47.419 the thing about the creative world. It's all 00:14:47.419 --> 00:14:49.299 linked with friendships and things like that. 00:14:49.399 --> 00:14:51.360 It's hard to kind of disassociate them from each 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:55.820 other. But I guess it's a lot to do with status 00:14:55.820 --> 00:14:59.899 and whether or not you feel that you are the 00:14:59.899 --> 00:15:04.740 thing you want to be still. So that is constantly... 00:15:04.740 --> 00:15:08.090 I can't remember. I was maybe in my 30s. When 00:15:08.090 --> 00:15:10.870 I first started to look to see what age people 00:15:10.870 --> 00:15:14.289 were. Oh, yeah, I like doing that. I like doing 00:15:14.289 --> 00:15:17.830 that as well. And I have never stopped. So it's 00:15:17.830 --> 00:15:20.830 been 20 years. Shall we cycle back then to how 00:15:20.830 --> 00:15:23.470 you've come to be making films now and how you 00:15:23.470 --> 00:15:28.710 got here? So where did you grow up? So I grew 00:15:28.710 --> 00:15:31.149 up in a village called Caldercrooks, which is 00:15:31.149 --> 00:15:36.190 just outside Airdrie, which is a... is my mum's 00:15:36.190 --> 00:15:38.509 good friend, Liz, who sadly passed away a few 00:15:38.509 --> 00:15:40.409 years ago, called it the arsehole of Scotland. 00:15:40.610 --> 00:15:43.590 Oh, lovely. So it's kind of like betwixt the 00:15:43.590 --> 00:15:47.509 bum cheeks of Glasgow and Edinburgh. Right. And 00:15:47.509 --> 00:15:50.509 that kind of no man's land area of like North 00:15:50.509 --> 00:15:53.210 Lanarkshire, West Lothian, you know, old kind 00:15:53.210 --> 00:15:55.909 of like mining. towns kind of thing so it's really 00:15:55.909 --> 00:15:58.649 kind of like it just is not it's not glamorous 00:15:58.649 --> 00:16:00.490 it's not the highlands it's not the lowlands 00:16:00.490 --> 00:16:02.169 it's not Glasgow it's not Edinburgh it's just 00:16:02.169 --> 00:16:06.370 stuck so Arsenal's got a good description for 00:16:06.370 --> 00:16:10.429 it but then also it's like I feel that when you 00:16:10.429 --> 00:16:13.909 do come from a kind of cultural wasteland you 00:16:13.909 --> 00:16:17.830 develop an imagination to create I think which 00:16:17.830 --> 00:16:20.769 is quite powerful. So you you came from there 00:16:20.769 --> 00:16:24.779 and then how did you end up in Glasgow? Well, 00:16:24.779 --> 00:16:29.360 music, I guess, was a real thing. Even as a little 00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:31.159 kid, I think some people are drawn to living 00:16:31.159 --> 00:16:32.659 in the countryside and some people are drawn 00:16:32.659 --> 00:16:35.000 to living in the city. So I grew up in a semi 00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:37.860 -rural countryside type thing. There was farms 00:16:37.860 --> 00:16:41.480 next to us. The farm that I grew up next to, 00:16:41.620 --> 00:16:45.960 we drank the cow's milk from there before pasteurisation. 00:16:46.220 --> 00:16:49.100 So the milk was out the cow, into a chiller, 00:16:49.259 --> 00:16:53.379 into the bottle. onto the doorstep onto the cornflakes 00:16:53.379 --> 00:16:58.679 so we drank milk straight from the cow i don't 00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:02.120 know i can't believe i just said that story i 00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:06.359 love this detail i know i just but i don't you 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:08.519 know i think that i think it's quite quite amazing 00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:12.039 but anyway but then um so But even as a little 00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:14.660 kid coming into Glasgow, like maybe to go to, 00:17:14.680 --> 00:17:17.039 just to go shopping or go and see a pantomime 00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:20.119 or a show or anything like that, I was always, 00:17:20.119 --> 00:17:22.660 from like really tiny, was always really excited 00:17:22.660 --> 00:17:25.319 to come into Glasgow. So I just think I always 00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:32.740 had a feel for the buzz of the city. Yeah. And 00:17:32.740 --> 00:17:36.220 I said, so when I got a chance to move here, 00:17:36.339 --> 00:17:39.059 I moved here and then I started. So I moved here 00:17:39.059 --> 00:17:41.789 actually just on the, dole i was on the dole 00:17:41.789 --> 00:17:44.130 i didn't have a job and i'd been i was out at 00:17:44.130 --> 00:17:46.190 the art school on a saturday night at divine 00:17:46.190 --> 00:17:48.349 and got chatting to people and somebody told 00:17:48.349 --> 00:17:50.690 me about this thing called housing benefit which 00:17:50.690 --> 00:17:52.950 was like if you were on the dole it means you 00:17:52.950 --> 00:17:55.730 got your rent paid and i just i was like wow 00:17:55.730 --> 00:17:59.369 imagine that is amazing and then so me and another 00:17:59.369 --> 00:18:02.210 couple of guys got together moved into a flat 00:18:02.210 --> 00:18:04.670 and got housing benefit but that was only for 00:18:04.670 --> 00:18:06.410 a few months and then i started glasgow college 00:18:06.410 --> 00:18:07.809 of building printing and studied photography 00:18:08.430 --> 00:18:10.769 So what drew you to doing photography then? Just, 00:18:10.789 --> 00:18:13.089 again, I just was like, you know, I didn't do 00:18:13.089 --> 00:18:15.390 well at school at all, didn't really leave school 00:18:15.390 --> 00:18:18.890 with any hires at all, but knew I wanted to do 00:18:18.890 --> 00:18:20.869 something creative. But I kind of also really 00:18:20.869 --> 00:18:22.829 knew I wanted to make films, but I just had no 00:18:22.829 --> 00:18:26.490 connection to that world at all, apart from watching 00:18:26.490 --> 00:18:29.130 films and watching TV, which I really loved doing. 00:18:29.269 --> 00:18:32.730 And then my... Mum's dad, my grandpa, was a really 00:18:32.730 --> 00:18:35.109 keen photographer, amateur photographer, and 00:18:35.109 --> 00:18:37.630 he lent me his camera and I just went out and 00:18:37.630 --> 00:18:39.630 started taking photographs and just thought, 00:18:39.750 --> 00:18:42.569 oh, I can do this, you know. I can look through 00:18:42.569 --> 00:18:44.670 the lens and it's a rectangle and it kind of 00:18:44.670 --> 00:18:46.210 looks like a film and I thought, oh, I can do 00:18:46.210 --> 00:18:48.289 this. So then I did a night class in photography 00:18:48.289 --> 00:18:50.910 and a few black and white prints and got them 00:18:50.910 --> 00:18:53.730 together and then applied to do a national certificate 00:18:53.730 --> 00:18:55.269 at Glasgow College of Building and Printing and 00:18:55.269 --> 00:18:59.069 got in. I started my photography thing. And then 00:18:59.069 --> 00:19:01.990 I went on to art school after that. So you did 00:19:01.990 --> 00:19:04.509 photography at the Glasgow School of Art after. 00:19:05.269 --> 00:19:08.289 And then you finished at the art school. Yeah. 00:19:08.750 --> 00:19:11.950 So what happened from that point through to where 00:19:11.950 --> 00:19:14.710 you are now making films? Well, then I went to 00:19:14.710 --> 00:19:18.150 London and did a master's. uh in london where 00:19:18.150 --> 00:19:19.930 i did photography and that was just so that was 00:19:19.930 --> 00:19:23.049 kind of 2004 2006 so that was really when the 00:19:23.049 --> 00:19:25.230 kind of digital revolution happened and you started 00:19:25.230 --> 00:19:28.190 to get digital video cameras and a laptop and 00:19:28.190 --> 00:19:30.990 editing software and that was all really cheap 00:19:30.990 --> 00:19:34.230 and also digital photography as well so you know 00:19:34.230 --> 00:19:37.289 i got an old kind of like high street video camera 00:19:37.289 --> 00:19:39.509 and then and you could just start videoing things 00:19:39.509 --> 00:19:42.950 and and and editing them together yourself and 00:19:42.950 --> 00:19:45.589 then I kind of like love of portraiture kind 00:19:45.589 --> 00:19:48.049 of fed into that. And then I just started making 00:19:48.049 --> 00:19:51.309 kind of like silly videos, video art and different 00:19:51.309 --> 00:19:53.609 things. And then. So what age are you at this 00:19:53.609 --> 00:19:55.170 point when you actually started doing video stuff? 00:19:55.369 --> 00:19:56.750 Well, I was in my thirties. You were in your 00:19:56.750 --> 00:19:59.650 thirties? Yeah. So I was like, so this is part 00:19:59.650 --> 00:20:02.170 of being a late developer. I relate fully to 00:20:02.170 --> 00:20:03.910 this. I'm literally 10 years behind. I mean, 00:20:03.930 --> 00:20:06.630 I'm literally 10 years behind, like, you know, 00:20:07.130 --> 00:20:08.950 you know, like I'm 54 now. So I should probably 00:20:08.950 --> 00:20:11.200 have been. finishing up my first feature at 44 00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:14.299 you know i mean or even younger but like uh and 00:20:14.299 --> 00:20:16.519 did you feel that even then in your 30s that 00:20:16.519 --> 00:20:18.599 you said you were googling what what age did 00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:21.420 such and such make a film yeah no i already felt 00:20:21.420 --> 00:20:23.019 it there because i think when i went to the i 00:20:23.019 --> 00:20:24.819 went to the royal college of art to do my master's 00:20:24.819 --> 00:20:26.980 i think i was expecting people to be older but 00:20:26.980 --> 00:20:29.160 they but they weren't they were they were straight 00:20:29.160 --> 00:20:31.119 out uh you know most most people were in their 00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:33.640 early 20s there was a few older people of course 00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:35.700 but most people are in the early 20s but i mean 00:20:35.700 --> 00:20:37.480 i had a brilliant time it was great and i'm really 00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:40.319 glad i Because I was such a late developer, I 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:42.200 was really glad I went to Glasgow older and I 00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:44.299 went to the Royal College older because I just 00:20:44.299 --> 00:20:46.200 felt I had something to say, you know, and I 00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:48.200 enjoyed it. Well, yeah, exactly. You've had some 00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:51.660 life experience. So if you started doing the 00:20:51.660 --> 00:20:54.000 film stuff in your 30s and everybody was younger 00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:56.539 than you, have you basically spent a couple of 00:20:56.539 --> 00:20:58.920 decades around people that are much younger than 00:20:58.920 --> 00:21:01.740 you? Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, not much younger, 00:21:01.839 --> 00:21:03.880 but quite a bit younger. Even in my kind of close 00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:07.220 friend group, I mean, I'm the oldest. But do 00:21:07.220 --> 00:21:08.960 you think that's affected you in some way, in 00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:11.200 a positive way? Yeah, maybe. Yeah, I think it 00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:13.720 has. It's like, I don't, I mean, I don't, when 00:21:13.720 --> 00:21:15.980 I'm in people's company, I mean, it's not that 00:21:15.980 --> 00:21:18.240 much difference. But I suppose when I was in 00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:22.119 my 20s and my friends, you know, I mean, I'm 00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:24.259 only like, my friend Cara, I'm only two years 00:21:24.259 --> 00:21:28.259 older than her. Different generation. So out 00:21:28.259 --> 00:21:30.980 of our group, actually, she was the second oldest. 00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:34.799 But then when I went to art school, though, I 00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:37.619 was... I think they'd already all finished art 00:21:37.619 --> 00:21:40.640 school, my friends. So everybody was about nine 00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:43.299 to 10 years younger than me then when I finally 00:21:43.299 --> 00:21:46.119 finished at GSA. One thing that has struck me 00:21:46.119 --> 00:21:48.500 though about the art school is when I went to 00:21:48.500 --> 00:21:51.380 uni, people did, I did science, people stayed 00:21:51.380 --> 00:21:53.799 in their year and there was no kind of inter 00:21:53.799 --> 00:21:57.039 -year socialising. But it seems like the culture 00:21:57.039 --> 00:22:01.400 of doing art is there's an opening and everybody 00:22:01.400 --> 00:22:04.619 goes and it doesn't matter what year you're in 00:22:04.619 --> 00:22:08.559 or what. what age I saw that like Glasgow International 00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:11.480 just over the weekend there that it was like 00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:14.200 every generation was at a show and I feel like 00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:17.980 that's pretty cool and supportive across generations 00:22:17.980 --> 00:22:21.400 that all ages were at it yeah yeah definitely 00:22:21.400 --> 00:22:23.319 it's that but I think I still think there is 00:22:23.319 --> 00:22:25.900 a there is a feeling amongst the art world where 00:22:25.900 --> 00:22:28.460 it's like you know I've noticed I've not even 00:22:28.460 --> 00:22:31.279 since you know I've started putting out stuff 00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:33.500 about the film and all that I can tell people 00:22:33.500 --> 00:22:36.140 have started People who have known me for years, 00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:38.640 I can sense when I speak to them, they respect 00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:40.839 me a little bit more now that I've done something. 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:43.619 Right. So that's what I'm talking about, about 00:22:43.619 --> 00:22:45.779 the peers thing. Even though I've known them 00:22:45.779 --> 00:22:49.500 for years. How can you tell? It's a very subtle 00:22:49.500 --> 00:22:52.220 thing, you know, but it's just like, oh, yeah, 00:22:52.380 --> 00:22:56.710 yeah, yeah. They're almost surprised. Oh, no. 00:22:57.190 --> 00:22:59.130 Well, I think it's been a lot. This is the state 00:22:59.130 --> 00:23:01.349 of stuff. Yeah, this is the spiral. Well, it's 00:23:01.349 --> 00:23:03.630 not really spiral. I suppose I find it really 00:23:03.630 --> 00:23:06.809 interesting. But when I think about before, like 00:23:06.809 --> 00:23:09.390 I remember my friend Katie, when I was complaining 00:23:09.390 --> 00:23:11.549 one time, when I think I had just moved back 00:23:11.549 --> 00:23:13.750 to Glasgow and I was complaining about, you know, 00:23:13.769 --> 00:23:16.170 work that I thought was crap and shouldn't have 00:23:16.170 --> 00:23:17.849 got an exhibition and stuff like that. And she 00:23:17.849 --> 00:23:20.150 said to me, she said, you need to really stop 00:23:20.150 --> 00:23:21.650 worrying about what everyone else is doing and 00:23:21.650 --> 00:23:24.140 start worrying about what you're doing. And it 00:23:24.140 --> 00:23:26.079 really, really stuck with me. And I thought, 00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:29.319 gosh, she's totally, totally right. Because it's 00:23:29.319 --> 00:23:32.779 quite easy when your own work's not going well, 00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:36.240 it's quite easy to start lashing out at people 00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:38.319 that are doing well. It's definitely a thing 00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:41.359 in comedy as well. I think especially with social 00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:43.740 media, it's so easy for people to look like they're 00:23:43.740 --> 00:23:46.259 doing incredibly well as well. But behind the 00:23:46.259 --> 00:23:48.200 scenes, maybe they're not. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:50.759 exactly. And I think people... And I would say 00:23:50.759 --> 00:23:53.539 particularly men in comedy make it needlessly 00:23:53.539 --> 00:23:55.700 competitive when it doesn't need to be. They're 00:23:55.700 --> 00:23:57.619 like, oh, such and such got this gig. Why did 00:23:57.619 --> 00:24:00.039 I not get that gig? Such and such has won that 00:24:00.039 --> 00:24:01.759 competition. They didn't deserve that. And it's 00:24:01.759 --> 00:24:05.420 like, as Katie said, it doesn't affect you. Yeah. 00:24:05.640 --> 00:24:07.660 I mean, there's a couple of movies out in the 00:24:07.660 --> 00:24:09.559 cinema at the moment which are doing really well. 00:24:09.619 --> 00:24:12.599 Horror films, one called Obsession and one called 00:24:12.599 --> 00:24:15.480 Backrooms. And the director of Obsession is like 00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:20.880 26. And the director of Backrooms is 20. and 00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:24.799 you can't hear again i'm going what what pressure 00:24:24.799 --> 00:24:27.220 though you know like after they've made that 00:24:27.220 --> 00:24:30.019 what next for them like at least you know maybe 00:24:30.019 --> 00:24:31.960 they should go and live life a bit and then come 00:24:31.960 --> 00:24:33.940 back to it i don't know but they can't do that 00:24:33.940 --> 00:24:36.000 now because they've they've just made they've 00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:38.400 just made loads of money well i guess they've 00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:42.339 got it's not fair is it i know you can kind of 00:24:42.339 --> 00:24:44.339 do whatever you want then if you've had a hit 00:24:44.339 --> 00:24:47.500 you know so the kind of anxiety around being 00:24:47.500 --> 00:24:50.339 older or feeling like you're playing catch -up, 00:24:50.420 --> 00:24:53.720 did that begin in your 30s? Yeah. Or is that 00:24:53.720 --> 00:24:55.640 more recent? Definitely began in my 30s, yeah. 00:24:55.759 --> 00:24:58.220 So it's been like this for a long time. Because 00:24:58.220 --> 00:25:02.380 I had the cover of the institution, of college, 00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:05.779 even though I was a mature student at GSA and 00:25:05.779 --> 00:25:09.160 I was a mature student at the RCA. But then once 00:25:09.160 --> 00:25:14.079 that ended, then suddenly I felt more my age. 00:25:14.819 --> 00:25:18.589 Right, okay. You know, I think I felt, oh, things 00:25:18.589 --> 00:25:21.589 had to start. Things had just happened fast for 00:25:21.589 --> 00:25:27.150 me because I was already older. Like I wasn't 00:25:27.150 --> 00:25:29.089 graduating at 23 and just being able to mess 00:25:29.089 --> 00:25:30.970 around for another 10 years. I felt things had 00:25:30.970 --> 00:25:32.609 happened faster. But don't you think that gives 00:25:32.609 --> 00:25:34.549 you a greater sense of purpose in a way? Or like 00:25:34.549 --> 00:25:37.529 you feel this kind of anxiety to like, I need 00:25:37.529 --> 00:25:40.150 to catch up. So actually you might end up being 00:25:40.150 --> 00:25:42.630 much more productive than somebody who's younger 00:25:42.630 --> 00:25:44.410 and just kind of dawdling around and not really 00:25:44.410 --> 00:25:47.569 thinking about time. um no because i think you 00:25:47.569 --> 00:25:49.210 actually end up spending too much time worrying 00:25:49.210 --> 00:25:52.170 about it not just not just enough not enough 00:25:52.170 --> 00:25:54.369 time actually just working away at your own pace 00:25:54.369 --> 00:25:56.990 and just being like and just allowing because 00:25:56.990 --> 00:25:59.049 that's what i've learned now like as i've got 00:25:59.049 --> 00:26:01.269 a bit older is just allow the ideas to come but 00:26:01.269 --> 00:26:04.470 any idea that comes just make sure you're ready 00:26:04.470 --> 00:26:08.069 for it and make sure and make sure you you push 00:26:08.069 --> 00:26:10.849 it as far as it can go you know what if an idea 00:26:10.849 --> 00:26:13.529 does come but like don't stress out about them 00:26:13.529 --> 00:26:15.289 not coming or definitely don't stress out about 00:26:15.289 --> 00:26:17.390 things not happening quick enough because it'll 00:26:17.390 --> 00:26:20.289 end because actually that will stop it will actually 00:26:20.289 --> 00:26:23.009 stop the ideas coming i think i guess it's difficult 00:26:23.009 --> 00:26:26.190 and we all do when you like you finish a project 00:26:26.190 --> 00:26:29.730 and you don't take any time to kind of bask in 00:26:29.730 --> 00:26:31.490 the achievement and chill out it's always like 00:26:31.490 --> 00:26:34.670 what's the next thing or if there are deadlines 00:26:34.670 --> 00:26:37.950 for funding or oh i've got to book this show 00:26:37.950 --> 00:26:41.119 then it kind of forces you to be on this treadmill 00:26:41.119 --> 00:26:44.519 and maybe a lot of the stuff that you end up 00:26:44.519 --> 00:26:47.559 making isn't as good because you're not taking 00:26:47.559 --> 00:26:49.480 your time for the ideas to actually be good. 00:26:49.619 --> 00:26:53.059 But the fun bit's the making. I genuinely think, 00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:54.859 I think the fun bit's the making. It's actually... 00:26:55.180 --> 00:26:57.539 all that basking in the glory and all that stuff, 00:26:57.619 --> 00:26:59.539 I think just, just actually just forget. As soon 00:26:59.539 --> 00:27:01.220 as something's finished, forget about it. That's 00:27:01.220 --> 00:27:03.619 where delusion comes. It's out of your hands, 00:27:03.700 --> 00:27:06.400 you know? So you should just go back to, go back 00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:08.200 to follow that idea that you maybe never had 00:27:08.200 --> 00:27:10.680 time to do when you were finishing off the last 00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:13.900 thing and just start working through it. And 00:27:13.900 --> 00:27:16.579 then other ideas come and then, and that's actually, 00:27:16.660 --> 00:27:19.599 and those, those, those beginning moments of 00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:22.160 ideas, whether you're working with someone else 00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:24.059 or yourself and you're just working through things. 00:27:24.680 --> 00:27:27.400 That's the best bit because it doesn't cost any 00:27:27.400 --> 00:27:29.140 money. Do you know what I mean, really? You just 00:27:29.140 --> 00:27:31.700 need to sit with a pen and paper and write things 00:27:31.700 --> 00:27:33.920 down. And that's great. And it's not until it 00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:35.480 gets further and further on when you have to 00:27:35.480 --> 00:27:36.819 do something about it, that's when it starts 00:27:36.819 --> 00:27:39.500 getting stressful. Yeah, that's true. It's exciting 00:27:39.500 --> 00:27:41.640 when you get an idea and you're really excited 00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:45.200 about it. Because I'm too old. I guess I relate 00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:48.819 to this quite a lot because... I, it was only 00:27:48.819 --> 00:27:51.819 really a few years ago that I started doing comedy 00:27:51.819 --> 00:27:54.799 after dipping in and out of it for years, but 00:27:54.799 --> 00:27:57.240 never really committing. And then a few years 00:27:57.240 --> 00:28:00.460 ago, I got TikTok. I was like, I'm going to do 00:28:00.460 --> 00:28:03.759 one sketch a week and see what happens. And it's 00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:05.779 quite heartening in a way, because it's not to 00:28:05.779 --> 00:28:07.779 say that the sketches were good. It was just 00:28:07.779 --> 00:28:10.640 making the time and putting it, putting that 00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:13.839 time eventually I got somewhere. But when I started 00:28:13.839 --> 00:28:17.619 doing gigs. I was the old one. You know, there's 00:28:17.619 --> 00:28:22.000 not many women over 40 doing stand -up. I think 00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:24.420 there's some comedians like Callie Beaton, who 00:28:24.420 --> 00:28:29.319 is 50, who came into comedy really late. Janie 00:28:29.319 --> 00:28:32.559 Godley. Janie Godley. Was she a bit older? Yeah, 00:28:32.559 --> 00:28:34.880 she was in her 40s or maybe even 50. I don't 00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:37.539 know when she started. When she first started 00:28:37.539 --> 00:28:41.119 doing stand -up. When she first got noticed anyway 00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:44.509 and became... yeah became became really well 00:28:44.509 --> 00:28:46.950 known but you do feel you do feel this pressure 00:28:46.950 --> 00:28:49.190 to like catch up and it's difficult when there's 00:28:49.190 --> 00:28:52.569 not many other people your age or have come to 00:28:52.569 --> 00:28:55.829 it late around you yeah yeah that's true that's 00:28:55.829 --> 00:28:57.950 true actually and it's just even calling yourself 00:28:57.950 --> 00:29:01.150 the thing like i've got a something so after 00:29:01.150 --> 00:29:03.569 i go back to when i just finished that when you 00:29:03.569 --> 00:29:05.130 when things started when i started to really 00:29:05.130 --> 00:29:08.369 worry you know when i first finished my ma about 00:29:08.369 --> 00:29:11.359 who i was i actually went to I said to myself, 00:29:11.579 --> 00:29:13.200 I'm just going to start when somebody asked me 00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:15.519 what I do, I'm going to say I'm an artist because 00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:17.640 I'd never done that before. I'd always just say, 00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:19.440 oh, I do a bit of this and I do a bit of that. 00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:21.599 And I work behind a bar. I do a thing. And I 00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:24.519 just decided that I would say, oh, what do you 00:29:24.519 --> 00:29:27.420 do? I'm just going to say I'm an artist and have 00:29:27.420 --> 00:29:30.240 no embarrassment about it or anything. Just say 00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:34.160 it straight up. And I was at a friend's dinner 00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:37.119 party in London with a friend who I used to work 00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:39.180 with in a bar in Glasgow. And she was like a. 00:29:39.660 --> 00:29:41.759 She's like an editor for a big publishing house 00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:43.380 now and stuff. I was a few years old around for 00:29:43.380 --> 00:29:46.200 dinner and we were all having a nice time and 00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:47.980 stuff and they were all talking about buying 00:29:47.980 --> 00:29:50.339 houses and everything. So again, I already felt 00:29:50.339 --> 00:29:52.579 like, because these people were about the same 00:29:52.579 --> 00:29:54.339 age as me, maybe even a little bit younger and 00:29:54.339 --> 00:29:55.460 they were all talking about buying houses and 00:29:55.460 --> 00:29:57.619 I was nowhere near that. And one of them says, 00:29:57.680 --> 00:30:00.380 what do you do, Martin? And I said, I'm an artist. 00:30:00.819 --> 00:30:05.490 And one of the guys went... Really? Like, guffawed. 00:30:05.589 --> 00:30:09.809 That's awful. Actually guffawed. Wow. So that 00:30:09.809 --> 00:30:13.869 was my first outgoing. That is horrible. I know. 00:30:14.809 --> 00:30:16.930 Are you still in contact with that person? No, 00:30:16.930 --> 00:30:19.289 I didn't know him. I only knew the host. That 00:30:19.289 --> 00:30:23.369 makes it worse. I know. Yeah, he just thought... 00:30:23.369 --> 00:30:28.430 Yeah, it was shocking behaviour, but he'd never 00:30:28.430 --> 00:30:31.349 met an artist before, probably. Okay, so maybe 00:30:31.349 --> 00:30:33.920 it was... being generous it was just more the 00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:35.900 shock of i think he just was shocked i think 00:30:35.900 --> 00:30:38.019 he was just genuinely there's a guy i'm having 00:30:38.019 --> 00:30:40.859 dinner with a guy who's an artist and he's not 00:30:40.859 --> 00:30:44.039 only he's an artist he's bold enough to say yes 00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:47.039 yeah that's the delusion that you need what a 00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:50.920 deluded what a deluded loser at least you didn't 00:30:50.920 --> 00:30:54.660 call yourself a creative yeah i used to laugh 00:30:54.660 --> 00:30:57.500 i mean i privately laugh years ago you know on 00:30:57.500 --> 00:31:00.990 twitter bios People that I knew were just doing 00:31:00.990 --> 00:31:04.269 unpaid open mic comedy gigs or had maybe done 00:31:04.269 --> 00:31:07.130 a handful of gigs having comedian in their bio. 00:31:07.269 --> 00:31:11.170 And I was like, I'm not sure about that. But 00:31:11.170 --> 00:31:13.769 then that maybe was me projecting my own insecurity 00:31:13.769 --> 00:31:15.950 a little bit as well. It's interesting, isn't 00:31:15.950 --> 00:31:17.470 it? It's like I remember chatting with a friend 00:31:17.470 --> 00:31:19.670 about, you know, what's the most ridiculous thing 00:31:19.670 --> 00:31:24.309 to say you are? You know, if you were like a 00:31:24.309 --> 00:31:27.730 poet, I think probably. I mean, that's kind of 00:31:27.730 --> 00:31:29.490 the worst, isn't it? But like, I mean, how do 00:31:29.490 --> 00:31:32.430 you, at what stage do you get to say, I mean, 00:31:32.430 --> 00:31:34.509 would you, once you were published, would you 00:31:34.509 --> 00:31:37.470 be able to say, I'm a poet? I think that would 00:31:37.470 --> 00:31:39.930 be a good milestone. I mean, you're not saying 00:31:39.930 --> 00:31:42.230 you're a good poet. Yeah, but you wouldn't, but 00:31:42.230 --> 00:31:45.190 a writer would say, I'm a writer before they've 00:31:45.190 --> 00:31:47.829 been published. I've only started thinking about 00:31:47.829 --> 00:31:50.950 using the word writer for myself recently. Right. 00:31:51.529 --> 00:31:54.589 I don't know. It just, it does seem. Do you write 00:31:54.589 --> 00:31:57.869 poetry? I don't write poetry, no. Actually, I 00:31:57.869 --> 00:31:59.650 did at Burns Night once. Oh, yeah, of course 00:31:59.650 --> 00:32:01.369 you did. Yeah, I wrote a poem for you. You did, 00:32:01.450 --> 00:32:04.269 exactly. I can't remember it, but yeah. So I 00:32:04.269 --> 00:32:07.049 am a poet. You can put that in your list of jobs. 00:32:07.329 --> 00:32:10.190 I'll put it on LinkedIn. Poet. But if you were 00:32:10.190 --> 00:32:12.349 just in a group of people you didn't really know 00:32:12.349 --> 00:32:14.390 and we were saying, oh, what do you do? Do you 00:32:14.390 --> 00:32:18.750 say, I'm a poet? That would get the most chance 00:32:18.750 --> 00:32:21.769 of getting a guffaw, I think. Probably. Unless 00:32:21.769 --> 00:32:24.150 you really owned it. An artist is probably second. 00:32:24.730 --> 00:32:26.630 I think maybe it's part of how you delivered 00:32:26.630 --> 00:32:28.910 it. Do you remember? Did you say it really confidently? 00:32:29.210 --> 00:32:31.069 Or were you like, oh, I'm an artist? Well, I 00:32:31.069 --> 00:32:33.269 said it quite confidently, but I think the, but 00:32:33.269 --> 00:32:36.049 maybe I thought I said it confidently. That's 00:32:36.049 --> 00:32:37.529 probably what it was. I thought I said it confidently, 00:32:37.569 --> 00:32:39.589 but maybe it was still slightly weaker. Enough 00:32:39.589 --> 00:32:41.690 for him to guffaw anyway. I mean, he's an asshole, 00:32:41.710 --> 00:32:45.150 the guy, but like, but like, I mean, I never, 00:32:45.170 --> 00:32:47.230 I never, I wasn't like bold enough to be like, 00:32:47.410 --> 00:32:49.670 how dare you laugh? I just kind of like, kind 00:32:49.670 --> 00:32:52.619 of went along with it. I do wonder isn't this 00:32:52.619 --> 00:32:56.079 something that they say they kind of instill 00:32:56.079 --> 00:32:59.420 in kids that go to elite private schools they 00:32:59.420 --> 00:33:01.700 really have it instilled in them this confidence 00:33:01.700 --> 00:33:03.920 and sort of level of delusion and that's why 00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:07.200 so many of them end up apart from all the money 00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:09.019 and the networking or whatever but in these really 00:33:09.019 --> 00:33:11.319 big positions of power it's just having that 00:33:11.319 --> 00:33:14.500 healthy slash unhealthy level of delusion and 00:33:14.500 --> 00:33:17.680 confidence that that gets you places and actually 00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:19.759 confidence can go such a long way. It's not even 00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:22.980 in power, I mean, isn't it? It's the same in 00:33:22.980 --> 00:33:25.700 comedy, in British comedy as well, you know, 00:33:25.700 --> 00:33:27.500 the footlights and all that kind of stuff, you 00:33:27.500 --> 00:33:29.000 know what I mean? It's like people have, you 00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:31.259 know, kind of done everything to get there so 00:33:31.259 --> 00:33:33.599 that they can get a comedy career out of it. 00:33:34.059 --> 00:33:36.400 But there's been lots of the funniest stuff of 00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:38.500 all times come from there, so I'm not having 00:33:38.500 --> 00:33:40.799 a dig at it. I'm not having a dig at it because 00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:42.660 I think, to be honest, I just feel like whatever 00:33:42.660 --> 00:33:45.920 class you come from, it's more difficult. It's 00:33:45.920 --> 00:33:49.180 still difficult to do what you want to do. I 00:33:49.180 --> 00:33:51.599 think cultural capital is more important. I think 00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:53.339 you could probably come... Your parents could 00:33:53.339 --> 00:33:55.299 be artists. Yes, having that exposure. Who've 00:33:55.299 --> 00:33:57.619 never really made... never really made much money 00:33:57.619 --> 00:33:59.519 themselves and i've always kind of got by but 00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:01.200 i've always been there with the cultural capital 00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:04.220 with the yeah with the ability to say oh that's 00:34:04.220 --> 00:34:05.960 good or why don't you try that or why did you 00:34:05.960 --> 00:34:07.960 do that give you confidence in your work you 00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:09.900 know what i mean like i think it's more to do 00:34:09.900 --> 00:34:11.679 with that to come to have come from a kind of 00:34:11.679 --> 00:34:14.219 creative been taken to the theater taken to galleries 00:34:14.219 --> 00:34:16.659 or whatever i think that's more that's more important 00:34:16.659 --> 00:34:31.750 than money to be honest So you talked about one 00:34:31.750 --> 00:34:34.590 of your anxieties about finding your peers. Yeah. 00:34:35.150 --> 00:34:37.489 So is that something you've always, always struggled 00:34:37.489 --> 00:34:41.989 with? Or have you found your people now? Yeah, 00:34:42.010 --> 00:34:44.130 I mean, I have. Who are your peers? That's the 00:34:44.130 --> 00:34:46.269 way I don't know. I don't know. But like people 00:34:46.269 --> 00:34:48.949 say your peers, it's like when you've done a 00:34:48.949 --> 00:34:51.110 thing, you're like, oh man, now that I've made 00:34:51.110 --> 00:34:53.849 a feature film, does that mean, you know, I'm 00:34:53.849 --> 00:34:59.730 a peerage above people that haven't? Okay. is 00:34:59.730 --> 00:35:02.170 that how you're starting to feel but yeah but 00:35:02.170 --> 00:35:04.610 like because not that many people get to do that 00:35:04.610 --> 00:35:06.789 no that's true you know lots who make things 00:35:06.789 --> 00:35:07.929 but there's not that many people that really 00:35:07.929 --> 00:35:10.070 get to make a feature film but um but it was 00:35:10.070 --> 00:35:13.409 done with a virtually like no money and stuff 00:35:13.409 --> 00:35:16.050 but i just thought if i didn't have a go at it 00:35:16.050 --> 00:35:18.730 then i would really really regret it but now 00:35:18.730 --> 00:35:21.650 that it's done i'm i am a little bit like oh 00:35:21.650 --> 00:35:24.030 i've done it you know what does that mean does 00:35:24.030 --> 00:35:27.940 that mean i'm now a Can I now say I am a film 00:35:27.940 --> 00:35:30.500 director or filmmaker? I mean, I always like 00:35:30.500 --> 00:35:33.480 to say filmmaker because I feel that's less chance 00:35:33.480 --> 00:35:36.659 of a guffaw. Rather than director? Rather than 00:35:36.659 --> 00:35:38.539 director. I think director's a little bit like... 00:35:38.539 --> 00:35:40.579 Saying you're a film director is a little bit 00:35:40.579 --> 00:35:43.820 close to poet or artist. But also, you write 00:35:43.820 --> 00:35:47.099 on your films. You've written material, so you're 00:35:47.099 --> 00:35:49.619 not just a director. Yeah, exactly. So filmmaker 00:35:49.619 --> 00:35:52.949 would be more... Yeah, but even though it doesn't 00:35:52.949 --> 00:35:54.769 sound as pompous as film director, filmmaker. 00:35:55.130 --> 00:35:57.809 I've always felt a bit like... Does it? I don't 00:35:57.809 --> 00:35:59.869 know if it does. Maybe it does. Filmmaker sounds 00:35:59.869 --> 00:36:04.730 a bit more... I don't know. A bit more community 00:36:04.730 --> 00:36:09.809 -based. Yeah. Well, I do feel like maybe directors 00:36:09.809 --> 00:36:16.519 get more cred than writers. in films you know 00:36:16.519 --> 00:36:18.780 it's like oh that's a such and such a film and 00:36:18.780 --> 00:36:20.440 they'll just name the director and the writer 00:36:20.440 --> 00:36:23.400 is often overlooked yeah i think it's a bit of 00:36:23.400 --> 00:36:25.179 a shame when it's the it's the strong writing 00:36:25.179 --> 00:36:28.320 that makes a film good i think yeah yeah for 00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:30.940 sure for sure but that's just but where it's 00:36:30.940 --> 00:36:33.460 in tv it's the other way around in tv the writers 00:36:33.460 --> 00:36:36.179 the king and same with theater i think the writer 00:36:36.179 --> 00:36:39.559 is much more lodged above filmmaking but i think 00:36:39.559 --> 00:36:41.199 it's maybe changing a little bit with filmmaking 00:36:41.199 --> 00:36:44.300 so much So your peers that you work with, are 00:36:44.300 --> 00:36:49.019 they then, who are they? Maybe the word peer 00:36:49.019 --> 00:36:52.900 is the problem. Maybe it is, yeah. Your colleagues, 00:36:52.940 --> 00:36:55.320 your community that you're working with, who 00:36:55.320 --> 00:36:58.260 are they? What do they comprise? Well, they come 00:36:58.260 --> 00:37:02.579 from all walks of life. I guess my experience 00:37:02.579 --> 00:37:05.400 of Glasgow has been much more involved in the... 00:37:05.630 --> 00:37:07.369 art scene and the music scene, even though I'm 00:37:07.369 --> 00:37:09.969 not a musician myself. Lots of my friends were, 00:37:10.030 --> 00:37:12.050 I worked in bars where there was lots of music 00:37:12.050 --> 00:37:16.369 people involved in different things in the visual 00:37:16.369 --> 00:37:17.949 art. And I think the visual art community in 00:37:17.949 --> 00:37:20.610 Glasgow kind of like copied the music community 00:37:20.610 --> 00:37:23.449 in a way with the DIY. Glasgow's having that 00:37:23.449 --> 00:37:26.530 DIY history and all that kind of thing. And that's 00:37:26.530 --> 00:37:29.989 what I kind of spent my kind of adult life being 00:37:29.989 --> 00:37:32.269 involved in. But I guess I always wanted to be 00:37:32.269 --> 00:37:34.429 a filmmaker, so I knew that I had... But the 00:37:34.429 --> 00:37:39.010 thing about those two things, particularly Glasgow's 00:37:39.010 --> 00:37:41.929 quite internationally -round versions of its 00:37:41.929 --> 00:37:45.289 music and its art, is they didn't wait for permission 00:37:45.289 --> 00:37:48.090 to do it. They just went and did it. So I decided 00:37:48.090 --> 00:37:50.010 that that was the model I was going to follow 00:37:50.010 --> 00:37:53.349 rather than a Scottish film -type thing. I'm 00:37:53.349 --> 00:37:55.369 going to follow those two things and just try 00:37:55.369 --> 00:37:56.690 and do something without waiting for permission. 00:37:57.150 --> 00:37:58.889 So that's who I would see as my peers is more 00:37:58.889 --> 00:38:00.750 the kind of musicians and the artists, I think, 00:38:00.750 --> 00:38:03.070 rather than other filmmakers. I think that's 00:38:03.070 --> 00:38:06.030 much more interesting than the kind of idea of 00:38:06.030 --> 00:38:08.170 a peer that you were talking about before that 00:38:08.170 --> 00:38:10.309 you're anxious about not finding, isn't it? To 00:38:10.309 --> 00:38:12.389 have people that have that attitude because you 00:38:12.389 --> 00:38:14.889 just end up with people from all different backgrounds 00:38:14.889 --> 00:38:18.389 and ages. And it's that that brings them together 00:38:18.389 --> 00:38:22.110 rather than an arbitrary like, oh, I'm 35 and 00:38:22.110 --> 00:38:24.869 I'm doing such, you know, I'm at this stage in 00:38:24.869 --> 00:38:27.030 my career. Yeah, I've always been more interested 00:38:27.030 --> 00:38:29.130 in like, I suppose you'd say outsider artists, 00:38:29.190 --> 00:38:30.909 even though I'm not in that term. So that would 00:38:30.909 --> 00:38:33.230 be comedians, you know, like, you know, so it'd 00:38:33.230 --> 00:38:35.570 be like, you know, in comic book, underground 00:38:35.570 --> 00:38:38.969 comics, underground comics, underground comedians, 00:38:39.230 --> 00:38:42.869 musicians, just like oddballs. I've just always 00:38:42.869 --> 00:38:45.610 been more drawn to. So the film's kind of littered 00:38:45.610 --> 00:38:49.250 with those types. Like I say, I personally find 00:38:49.250 --> 00:38:51.510 that kind of thing much more interesting and 00:38:51.510 --> 00:38:54.349 inspiring. So I think you've got nothing to worry 00:38:54.349 --> 00:38:59.769 about. no i know i know thanks very much this 00:38:59.769 --> 00:39:01.250 has actually been really therapeutic i think 00:39:01.250 --> 00:39:02.869 you're totally right you're feeling better i 00:39:02.869 --> 00:39:06.429 still yeah i think now it's still but it's still 00:39:06.429 --> 00:39:08.750 even like you know there's things you know even 00:39:08.750 --> 00:39:11.489 now as the film's about to come out i'm pretty 00:39:11.489 --> 00:39:14.670 sure if there is any press it'll say like oh 00:39:14.670 --> 00:39:18.570 you know They'll talk about my age. Really? For 00:39:18.570 --> 00:39:21.050 a debut feature. For a debut feature. He's like, 00:39:21.130 --> 00:39:22.889 debut feature it. Maybe you need to own. What 00:39:22.889 --> 00:39:25.190 took you so long? You just own it maybe, yeah. 00:39:25.309 --> 00:39:27.829 I think own it as an interest. That's what makes 00:39:27.829 --> 00:39:31.769 you different. Yeah. One of my most recent heroes 00:39:31.769 --> 00:39:35.010 is Tony Morris. Oh, he's amazing. He's a perfect 00:39:35.010 --> 00:39:37.869 example. Perfect example. 70s. He's in the 70s 00:39:37.869 --> 00:39:40.429 and he just got himself out there and did it. 00:39:40.590 --> 00:39:43.429 He's played Berkine. Yeah, exactly. He's a hero. 00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:45.800 I think the first time when he played at Optimo 00:39:45.800 --> 00:39:48.559 at the Berkeley suite, you know, it was like 00:39:48.559 --> 00:39:50.619 just the full crowd of young people were just 00:39:50.619 --> 00:39:53.000 all chanting, you know, Tony fucking Morris, 00:39:53.139 --> 00:39:56.880 Tony fucking Morris, Tony fucking Morris. And 00:39:56.880 --> 00:40:00.480 he's brilliant. Yeah, and he's in my film. Is 00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:02.960 he? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He plays a kind of like 00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:06.340 a crooner at the end of the bar. Yeah. But he's 00:40:06.340 --> 00:40:08.860 just playing his own. he's in it three times 00:40:08.860 --> 00:40:12.019 and he does his own work in the bar as i thought 00:40:12.019 --> 00:40:13.920 because i saw obviously saw him on instagram 00:40:13.920 --> 00:40:17.059 just like everybody else and just um and thought 00:40:17.059 --> 00:40:19.059 he was brilliant and just messaged him said look 00:40:19.059 --> 00:40:21.260 do you find me for a coffee i've got this film 00:40:21.260 --> 00:40:23.480 that i'd quite like to be involved in we met 00:40:23.480 --> 00:40:27.119 up and and we're pals now it's amazing and again 00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:29.880 it's not i do think age is irrelevant here it's 00:40:29.880 --> 00:40:34.960 about having that similar outlook and zest for 00:40:34.960 --> 00:40:39.599 trying new things and he is an outsider in electronic 00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:44.079 music but he really stands out yeah yeah so cool 00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:49.079 exactly no of course you're right i do know you 00:40:49.079 --> 00:40:50.820 know it's but it's also you can see it and don't 00:40:50.820 --> 00:40:52.579 even know for yourself that's also easy yeah 00:40:52.579 --> 00:40:54.820 that's also easy to say because i know that i 00:40:54.820 --> 00:40:57.119 mean i could easily just say what you just said 00:40:57.119 --> 00:40:59.920 yeah because i know it's correct but just because 00:40:59.920 --> 00:41:02.840 it's correct doesn't mean it doesn't mean that 00:41:02.840 --> 00:41:05.760 you always feel it but that's just normal as 00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:09.219 part of being human and you know yeah i guess 00:41:09.219 --> 00:41:12.090 it's i guess it's I guess it's kind of, it's 00:41:12.090 --> 00:41:16.550 all wrapped up in self -esteem and insecurity 00:41:16.550 --> 00:41:19.989 and all those things. Why should, why the fuck 00:41:19.989 --> 00:41:22.210 should anyone pay attention to what you're doing? 00:41:22.530 --> 00:41:25.409 Yeah. Especially today when there's so much stuff 00:41:25.409 --> 00:41:28.110 going on. But I think everyone's got something 00:41:28.110 --> 00:41:31.329 unique to say. No, no, I know totally. No, totally, 00:41:31.389 --> 00:41:33.210 totally it is. But it's just, it's just a constant, 00:41:33.349 --> 00:41:36.349 I think it's a constant, it's a constant battle 00:41:36.349 --> 00:41:40.880 between ego and... Yeah, ego, self -delusion 00:41:40.880 --> 00:41:45.059 and insecurity. I would also say, though, like 00:41:45.059 --> 00:41:48.420 in Jealous Alan, for example, your films are 00:41:48.420 --> 00:41:53.320 airing kind of anxieties and, in the case of 00:41:53.320 --> 00:41:56.360 that film, jealousy and things that lots of people 00:41:56.360 --> 00:41:59.820 can relate to and feel seen when they watch. 00:42:00.099 --> 00:42:02.920 So it's not just about yourself. You know, sometimes 00:42:02.920 --> 00:42:05.280 you're making something and it really resonates 00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:09.119 with people. And so I think... There's a value 00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:12.639 in that. Yeah, thanks for saying that. Your anxieties 00:42:12.639 --> 00:42:14.840 are fueling what you're making as well because 00:42:14.840 --> 00:42:18.800 it's honest. And that's when it's exciting and 00:42:18.800 --> 00:42:20.900 relatable. I remember I sat in Hillhead Library 00:42:20.900 --> 00:42:23.699 and I was like, jealousy, that's a horrible thing, 00:42:23.780 --> 00:42:26.179 isn't it? It's probably the worst. It's really 00:42:26.179 --> 00:42:28.960 ugly, isn't it? It's the ugliest emotion. But 00:42:28.960 --> 00:42:34.679 it also can make you feel sick. Oh no. And you 00:42:34.679 --> 00:42:37.119 can't even really... you know it doesn't it's 00:42:37.119 --> 00:42:39.320 not the one that it's not like you know grief 00:42:39.320 --> 00:42:43.219 loss and stuff where people comfort you you know 00:42:43.219 --> 00:42:46.139 it's really hard if someone's just being jealous 00:42:46.139 --> 00:42:48.179 you've got to keep it to yourself yeah you're 00:42:48.179 --> 00:42:51.440 not getting comforted by anyone that's true because 00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:54.699 it's kind of ugly you know and that's why i thought 00:42:54.699 --> 00:42:56.440 i thought i'm gonna go for this i'm gonna go 00:42:56.440 --> 00:42:58.000 for that one then because actually there's not 00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:00.300 that there's not that many things made about 00:43:00.300 --> 00:43:04.030 jealousy i don't think If you had a girlfriend, 00:43:04.329 --> 00:43:08.949 right, and she got off with your best pal, who 00:43:08.949 --> 00:43:13.389 would you blame? Both of them. That's really 00:43:13.389 --> 00:43:20.750 interesting. I'd blame the girlfriend. Why? Because. 00:43:23.909 --> 00:43:32.500 Friends are forever stupid. for somebody else 00:43:32.500 --> 00:43:37.920 to solve. Help me. Are you feeling better? Yeah, 00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:40.500 definitely. Just doing this makes you feel better. 00:43:40.539 --> 00:43:44.059 Are you ready? So this is the part where I've 00:43:44.059 --> 00:43:47.019 got a little problem from the previous guest 00:43:47.019 --> 00:43:49.780 that I'm going to share with you. Okay, great. 00:43:49.980 --> 00:43:52.679 And you're going to be the agony aunt or uncle. 00:43:52.920 --> 00:43:56.400 Okay, brilliant. So this problem came from a 00:43:56.400 --> 00:44:00.300 comedian, Eleanor Morton. It's a very funny character 00:44:00.300 --> 00:44:04.139 comedian. And it's just a little thing, but I'll 00:44:04.139 --> 00:44:06.199 see if you've got any advice for her. So I'm 00:44:06.199 --> 00:44:07.659 going to hit this button and you should be able 00:44:07.659 --> 00:44:10.940 to hear it. Hi, my problem is I find it really 00:44:10.940 --> 00:44:14.739 hard to motivate myself in the morning to get 00:44:14.739 --> 00:44:17.739 going. How do I get out of bed instead of spending 00:44:17.739 --> 00:44:21.159 the first hour of my consciousness scrolling 00:44:21.159 --> 00:44:26.800 through the internet and fannying around? That's 00:44:26.800 --> 00:44:31.650 exactly what I do. really difficult um let me 00:44:31.650 --> 00:44:33.769 think about that can i think for a bit yeah you 00:44:33.769 --> 00:44:37.989 can i'll edit out a long pause um getting a dog 00:44:37.989 --> 00:44:41.309 is good for that because you have to you have 00:44:41.309 --> 00:44:43.849 to walk them and you've got a dog and i've got 00:44:43.849 --> 00:44:46.289 a dog but he's but funnily enough he's really 00:44:46.289 --> 00:44:50.489 lazy so he doesn't actually get up that he doesn't 00:44:50.489 --> 00:44:52.929 actually need out that early he did at first 00:44:52.929 --> 00:44:56.409 when he was a puppy but now What sort of time 00:44:56.409 --> 00:44:59.010 does he need out then? Sometimes he can go till 00:44:59.010 --> 00:45:02.530 10 or 11. That's great. I know, but it doesn't 00:45:02.530 --> 00:45:04.210 help with the getting... I mean, one of the reasons 00:45:04.210 --> 00:45:06.469 I thought you... One of the reasons I got a dog 00:45:06.469 --> 00:45:08.570 was actually for this exact problem that your 00:45:08.570 --> 00:45:10.989 previous guest had. I think that's good advice, 00:45:11.070 --> 00:45:12.449 though. It's easier. I mean, you could... Yeah, 00:45:12.530 --> 00:45:15.269 get a dog. Yeah, because that's unusual. Most 00:45:15.269 --> 00:45:17.389 dogs do. You need to get up and get them at about 00:45:17.389 --> 00:45:18.429 8 or 9 or something like that. Yeah, my brother 00:45:18.429 --> 00:45:21.550 is up really early for his dog. If they want 00:45:21.550 --> 00:45:25.639 out. So get a dog. Really, really, really try 00:45:25.639 --> 00:45:27.940 and not look at your phone. That's the killer. 00:45:28.460 --> 00:45:30.719 Maybe go and put your phone in the kitchen or 00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:34.000 something. When you get up? No, no, just leave 00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:37.159 it in the kitchen. Just full stop, always. Yeah, 00:45:37.159 --> 00:45:40.000 well, when you go to bed. I've never done this 00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:42.159 one, but other people said leave your phone in 00:45:42.159 --> 00:45:43.760 the living room or the kitchen when you go to 00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:46.599 bed. See, my problem, although I've recently 00:45:46.599 --> 00:45:50.219 found a way to solve it, I use my phone as an 00:45:50.219 --> 00:45:53.320 alarm. To get up for work. Yeah. So it goes off 00:45:53.320 --> 00:45:55.280 and then I immediately pick it up and then I'm 00:45:55.280 --> 00:45:58.639 on my phone. Yeah. But my phone has been really 00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:03.920 dodgy recently. So I bought an alarm clock separate, 00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:06.380 like a traditional alarm clock, which I've still 00:46:06.380 --> 00:46:10.420 to set up. It's like a digital one. So I'm thinking 00:46:10.420 --> 00:46:13.090 I'll start using that. And then I can have my 00:46:13.090 --> 00:46:15.369 phone away. But that wasn't because I was worried 00:46:15.369 --> 00:46:17.329 about phone doom scrolling. It was because I 00:46:17.329 --> 00:46:19.750 was worried about my phone. It was like randomly 00:46:19.750 --> 00:46:21.469 switching itself off in the night and stuff. 00:46:21.650 --> 00:46:24.190 So I suppose that's a solution. Yeah, that's 00:46:24.190 --> 00:46:26.010 a solution. So you get an alarm clock and leave 00:46:26.010 --> 00:46:28.650 your phone in another room. Yeah. Or, I mean, 00:46:28.670 --> 00:46:31.329 I've never done this, but I've always wondered 00:46:31.329 --> 00:46:34.989 what it'd be like to have a tease made. Oh. Which 00:46:34.989 --> 00:46:38.050 would mean that would be your clock and would 00:46:38.050 --> 00:46:40.010 wake you up with a cup of tea. So then you could 00:46:40.010 --> 00:46:42.409 maybe sit up. and drink and get a little bit 00:46:42.409 --> 00:46:44.829 of caffeine in you i've only seen that in father 00:46:44.829 --> 00:46:46.949 ted i've never seen one in real life i don't 00:46:46.949 --> 00:46:48.590 think they're so popular these days but yeah 00:46:48.590 --> 00:46:50.230 but it was a it's a real thing that you could 00:46:50.230 --> 00:46:51.889 still get yeah yeah i think you can still get 00:46:51.889 --> 00:46:53.530 a tease made and the whole point was like it 00:46:53.530 --> 00:46:55.530 would the alarm would go off and it would you 00:46:55.530 --> 00:46:57.090 would you'd have you'd have a cup of tea ready 00:46:57.090 --> 00:46:59.909 for you see i would want milk in my tea though 00:46:59.909 --> 00:47:02.909 so you also need to have a little fridge at the 00:47:02.909 --> 00:47:06.719 end of the bed oh no sorry maybe it's got has 00:47:06.719 --> 00:47:08.980 it got a milk section maybe it's got a milk section 00:47:08.980 --> 00:47:11.920 I don't know maybe it can add milk in as well 00:47:11.920 --> 00:47:14.619 do you start with a cup of tea in the morning 00:47:14.619 --> 00:47:17.940 or no I usually I would have a coffee but um 00:47:17.940 --> 00:47:20.719 do you know I went to the hygienist today it 00:47:20.719 --> 00:47:24.780 was a new hygienist dental hygienist and I sat 00:47:24.780 --> 00:47:26.880 down I opened my mouth and she was like you like 00:47:26.880 --> 00:47:32.760 your tea and coffee don't you it's like yeah 00:47:34.349 --> 00:47:36.929 well apparently you're supposed to you should 00:47:36.929 --> 00:47:38.550 always brush because you think like why brush 00:47:38.550 --> 00:47:40.829 your teeth before you have your coffee but you 00:47:40.829 --> 00:47:42.030 should brush your teeth before you have your 00:47:42.030 --> 00:47:44.650 coffee apparently because of the germs that are 00:47:44.650 --> 00:47:48.030 that build up in your mouth as you sleep and 00:47:48.030 --> 00:47:49.849 then if you if you don't brush your teeth before 00:47:49.849 --> 00:47:51.369 and then you take your coffee you're just taking 00:47:51.369 --> 00:47:53.989 all those germs straight down into your gut oh 00:47:54.730 --> 00:47:56.510 So you should still always brush your teeth before 00:47:56.510 --> 00:47:58.989 your coffee. The thing is, apparently you're 00:47:58.989 --> 00:48:00.809 meant to wait 30 minutes after you've brushed 00:48:00.809 --> 00:48:02.889 your teeth before having the coffee because of 00:48:02.889 --> 00:48:07.150 the enamel or something. So it's tough, isn't 00:48:07.150 --> 00:48:10.110 it? Well, that's when she could get up and brush 00:48:10.110 --> 00:48:13.829 her teeth straight away. Up and brush her teeth. 00:48:14.190 --> 00:48:16.530 Maybe get dressed, shower or something like that, 00:48:16.530 --> 00:48:19.440 and then coffee. Maybe it's about rewards. It's 00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:21.980 difficult. I mean, this doesn't sound appealing 00:48:21.980 --> 00:48:24.420 to me. Brush my teeth, wait half an hour. The 00:48:24.420 --> 00:48:26.260 dog's been the best one so far. The dog is the 00:48:26.260 --> 00:48:29.980 best one. I mean, obviously we both suffer from 00:48:29.980 --> 00:48:32.699 the same problem. I think everybody that... Anyone 00:48:32.699 --> 00:48:35.579 who does anything like a bit creative... All 00:48:35.579 --> 00:48:37.000 the other comedians are not going to be able 00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:39.380 to do anything either. Yeah, maybe it's actually 00:48:39.380 --> 00:48:41.480 about reframing and it's like, well, one of the 00:48:41.480 --> 00:48:44.699 advantages of being freelance is you don't have 00:48:44.699 --> 00:48:47.300 to get up and you have. You know, the luxury 00:48:47.300 --> 00:48:49.320 of doing some doom scrolling and lying in bed. 00:48:49.320 --> 00:48:52.219 She should put it out to her peers. Yeah, good 00:48:52.219 --> 00:48:55.960 point. Okay, Eleanor, I hope that helps you. 00:48:56.199 --> 00:49:08.320 And if not, sorry, we tried. Okay, well, that 00:49:08.320 --> 00:49:12.599 brings us to the end of spiralling. This is the 00:49:12.599 --> 00:49:14.760 bit where I ask if there's anything you would 00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:19.079 like to share. with the, I hope, listeners, plural. 00:49:19.239 --> 00:49:22.719 This is a new podcast. Please listen. Okay, yeah, 00:49:22.860 --> 00:49:27.900 we can follow Public House Film on Instagram 00:49:27.900 --> 00:49:31.039 and you'll get updates of where we're at with 00:49:31.039 --> 00:49:33.860 it and where it's going to premiere. We haven't 00:49:33.860 --> 00:49:37.679 got a festival yet to premiere at, but we will 00:49:37.679 --> 00:49:40.440 do soon, hopefully. So following social media, 00:49:40.699 --> 00:49:42.780 do you know roughly, have you got a timeline 00:49:42.780 --> 00:49:45.849 for when you're going to finish? Have it out 00:49:45.849 --> 00:49:48.389 in the world. Well, hopefully we'll get an August 00:49:48.389 --> 00:49:51.349 premiere at a festival somewhere and then another 00:49:51.349 --> 00:49:53.869 couple of festivals through the winter and then 00:49:53.869 --> 00:49:57.909 Scottish premiere early next year sometime. So 00:49:57.909 --> 00:50:00.429 hopefully we'll get... The film will actually 00:50:00.429 --> 00:50:05.210 be released in cinemas in early spring. That's 00:50:05.210 --> 00:50:08.550 not long. No, I know. Exciting. Fingers crossed. 00:50:09.119 --> 00:50:11.940 All these things depend on distributors and all 00:50:11.940 --> 00:50:15.019 this other stuff. And your other films, Jealous 00:50:15.019 --> 00:50:16.579 Alan, you can watch on your Vimeo? You can watch 00:50:16.579 --> 00:50:20.019 on my Vimeo page, yeah. If you just go to Martin 00:50:20.019 --> 00:50:22.179 Clark Vimeo, you'll be able to find my Vimeo 00:50:22.179 --> 00:50:24.860 page and you can see my short films and lots 00:50:24.860 --> 00:50:26.980 of other things that I've made over the years 00:50:26.980 --> 00:50:29.420 on there. Thank you, Martin, for spiralling. 00:50:29.900 --> 00:50:34.420 Thank you for having me. Spiralling was recorded 00:50:34.420 --> 00:50:37.679 and edited with jingles written by me, Zara Gladman. 00:50:37.820 --> 00:50:40.239 Artwork was by Tom Dees, who you can follow on 00:50:40.239 --> 00:50:42.800 Instagram at easypeasylemondeezy. If you enjoyed 00:50:42.800 --> 00:50:44.519 this and would like to stop me spiralling about 00:50:44.519 --> 00:50:46.440 my decision to make a podcast, then why not leave 00:50:46.440 --> 00:50:49.000 me a five -star review on Apple or Spotify? Thanks 00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:49.480 for listening.