There was an email that went out about a company
that one of the therapists have worked with us
a lot at ASU. There was an email that went out
and said, hey, this company's hiring. They are
more than welcome for new grads. They qualify
for federal loan repayment, all of these things.
And I was like, oh, I want all of these. And
I knew that there was a clinic near my house.
And I did decide I was going to open it to NPs
and PAs, only advanced practice providers. No
physicians allowed. Sorry, not sorry. Y 'all
get your own stuff all the time. So there are
times where I am adjusting. know a sliding scale
or i'm adjusting blood pressure meds but i do
it under the discussion with a person who does
hold a dual certification so that i can document
that people forget that you are a nurse like
you have all of this nursing knowledge and the
ability to assess the ability to question the
ability to like de -escalate those are nursing
skills i had a sister of a patient who threatened
to slap me and then this big human stood in front
of me and i was like oh who's that and so that's
how that started This week on No Prior Off, I'm
very excited to have Andrea Kemp. Andrea and
I went to school together at Arizona State University,
so we've both been psych NPs for 11 years. She
has a wide array of clinical experience working
with pediatrics, inpatient, and she's going to
share so many tips with us today. She also precepts
and mentors tons of psych NP students and is
getting ready to launch a community. focused
on helping to support psych NPs who are especially
interested in working with inpatient psych. So
very excited about that. And she also teaches
at Northern Arizona University in their psych
NP program. So she has a really interesting perspective.
She's wicked smart, and I can't wait for you
guys to get to know her. So thanks for being
here, Andrea. Of course. Thanks for having me.
Yeah. How did you even decide you wanted to be
a psych NP? Like, just tell us a little bit about
yourself and who you are and how you so happened
upon it. I think psych was kind of an easy choice
for me. So I was not a psych nurse before I became
a psych NP. I worked in the ER mostly. I started
my nursing career 17 years ago on a PCU tele
unit. And then after about a year of that, I
was like, I need some things that. Gets me moving
a little bit more. And so I asked for a transfer
to the ER. They approved it. And then that's
where I went. And that was much better for me.
And so I think in that respect, that taught me
crisis is crisis, right? You're going to get
it. You're going to see everything. And not only
psychiatric crises that I saw in the ER, but
medical crises. And while I liked the medical
component, that wasn't really where I saw my
career going. I had actually always planned to
become a lawyer. And so even while I was finishing
up my bachelor's degree, taking the LSAT and
going to law school was my plan. And then I just
kind of last minute decided to change it. And
psych is what called me. The idea of being a
medical NP just wasn't where I thought I was
going to. My brain was going to be challenged
enough just for who I am as a person. And psych
is a puzzle. And that's what I like. And so.
That's just where my transition happened. And
then I stayed in the ER while I was in NP school.
I worked full time. I did work at Phoenix Children's
for a little bit in the ER there and saw a lot
of pediatric psych holds and how difficult it
is to place pediatric patients, let alone adults.
And that's kind of where I just saw where the
where the need was. And I knew that that's where
I wanted to be. Yeah, that's awesome. That's
really cool. What would you say has been the
most challenging part of your psych NP career?
I think it's learning at the beginning and even
when you transition to new jobs where your boundaries
are. And because it's very easy to get overworked.
It's easy to pick up that extra shift. It's easy
to say, yeah, add on that patient that, you know,
showed up and really needs to be seen. Can't
come in for another two weeks. And so and I think
as nurses, we're taught to hold a lot like you
can take one more patient. You can do that extra
step. And it's hard sometimes when you transition
roles. to be able to step back and say, hold
on, I have to protect myself a little bit because
I'm getting. tired. My brain is fatigued at this
point. And we want to help. It's a natural ability
that nurses have. And all of us are, not all
of us are born with it, but a lot of us grow
it. And it's hard to say no and protect yourself.
So I think learning your boundaries and learning
how to advocate for yourself and what you know
that you should or should not be doing is kind
of the hardest part. But then once you get that
down, any new transition is much easier. Yeah,
that's a good point. That's a good point. Okay,
let's talk about your kind of your first job
that you got as a psych NP and how was that for
you like how did you find that first job how
has compensation been I got hired for my first
NP job five months before we graduated There
was an email that went out about a company that
one of the therapists had worked with us a lot
at ASU. There was an email that went out and
said, hey, this company is hiring. They are more
than welcome for new grads. They qualify for
federal loan repayment, all of these things.
And I was like, oh, I want all of these. And
I knew that there was a clinic near my house.
So I was like, OK, this will be good. And I sent
an email back. I was interested. They called
me in. I did a formal interview. And then what
I really liked is they. brought me to the clinic
that I would be at. And they were having like
a big staff meeting. And so I got to, they actually
gave me two tips and tricks for working there
before they even hired me. We did this whole
thing and I just felt immediately welcomed. And
so I did tell them, I have two interviews. I
had an inpatient job interview that was lined
up and I had another outpatient job interview
that was lined up. And so I said, before I sign
anything, I'm going to do those. Because I've
never been offered an NP salary before. I've
never been offered a compensation package. I
don't know what is going on out there. And I
want to see what everybody has so that I can
piecemeal or say this one feels the most comfortable,
but I like this from this one. And so I did that.
I signed a letter of intent with them. And then
when I did those other interviews, the salary
for the other outpatient job was higher, but
they didn't qualify for the student loan repayment.
So I went back and I asked if they would meet
me in the middle. And they did. And so I said,
OK. And so I actually signed that job for four
to five months before we graduated. So I knew
I was good to go. And they knew the day that
I wanted because I told them I'm applying for
the National Health Service Corps Loan Repayment
Program. I have to be working by this date. And
they did everything for me to make sure I was
in person working by that date. I don't think
I realized that or I don't remember that. So
that's pretty cool. You know what I mean? It
was good. And I mean, that company has been my
home the whole time. While I've had other jobs,
I've transitioned in and out of different places.
I'm still with that company. Gotcha. Gotcha.
What was that salary that you negotiated for
starting out? So at the time, it was $130 ,000.
So they offered me $120 ,000. This was 11 years
ago. So they offered me $120 ,000 with only $1
,000 for CME. Then the other company offered
me $150. They were also a 45 -minute drive from
my house. So I wasn't even going to take that
job, honestly. But they gave me a good salary
negotiation standpoint. And so then I went back.
And so we negotiated up to the $130. And it was
great. I could pick my own schedule. And then
what also helped me is I asked them, I told them,
They're like, you're going to have a six month
probation period. I said, OK, I want to retalk
about my salary at six months. And they said,
then you'll do a year evaluation. I said, OK,
I want to talk about my salary at both of those
points. I made that very clear up front because
you don't know what you're going to be asked.
You might think you get into a job and then you
realize, wait, there's a lot more here than I
realized. I'm being asked to do a lot more. And
so you don't want to pigeonhole yourself into
a salary right at the beginning. But I'm also
a firm believer that your first job is for learning
and not earning. Like your job, that job is going
to get you in there. That job is going to show
you how to actually do it on your own. And you
should have a job where you're going to have
a lot of help or a lot of people that are behind
you. Right. Yeah. No, that's a great point. That's
a great point. But so you've been with that company
ever since. That's like unusual. It is unusual.
But I felt very I feel very comfortable with
my company. I trust my leadership. I know that
they listen to me and they've given me lots of
growth opportunities. They let me when we first
opened our unit in Kingman, Arizona, that's an
inpatient and observation unit. They offered
me the medical director position. So I did that
for about the first year, a little more than
a year that that unit was opened. And that was
a good time. I mean, that's something that a
lot of NPs at the time weren't being offered
were those higher level positions. And that was
a good learning experience for me. Yeah, absolutely.
So did you go to Kingman? I didn't have to. So
I went a couple times when we were walking the
unit, when it was still getting approved for
everything, when we were trying to figure out
the workflow. Because for me, if I can walk through
it, I can figure it out. It's harder for me to
try to hold it in my brain. So I'm like, I need
to be, patients are going to walk in here. Who
are they going to see first? What door are they
going through? Does this seem safe? Is this corner
weird? Because I had a lot of inpatient experience
at that point. And so I did go up a couple of
times when we were trying to work on our patient
flows and admission process. What's your schedule
now? So my schedule is a seven day on, seven
day off. We switch on Wednesdays. So I work Wednesday
to Tuesday. And I asked for that specifically.
So when I started with the company, I worked
outpatient primarily. And then I would cover
like within the first couple of months, they
sent out an email and they were like, hey, does
anybody want to cross train and be able to pick
up like weekends or holidays on the inpatient
unit? I was like, yes, because I was missing
the ER. I loved outpatient because I saw kids,
but I was really missing like that movement.
And so I was like, yeah, I want to do that. And
so that's what I did across train. So I would
pick up, they would have providers go on vacation.
I would go, it was great. And then in 2019, a
full -time position opened up and I was still
doing one year of the loan repayment. And so
I was like, Hey, I want this job. I want this
job. Don't get rid of it. Let me transfer to
it. And I'll work both for the next like seven
months. So what I did is I would go into the,
uh, onto the unit in the morning. And I'd be
there for a couple hours. And then I'd go to
the outpatient clinic and I'd work six hours,
six or seven hours at the outpatient clinic until
I was done with that loan repayment. And then
I transferred fully over. And that's when I said,
I want a seven on seven off schedule. And we're
on call every other week that we work. And so
there's that. Interesting. So you and I both
did the student loan repayment through the National
Health Service Corps. But it sounds like it was
a little bit like different because yours was
for five years. I did multiple. So I did the
first two years and then I re -upped it. Oh,
okay. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. And you got all your
loans paid off that way? No. So I waited because
I almost, I just applied for buyback, student
loan buyback. So at the end of it, the government
will forgive a hefty chunk of the amount that
they, I mean, they've already paid like $80 ,000
towards my loans, but they will forgive probably
another 95, which the majority is interest. That's
just been sitting in accruing. But that's another
thing is like figuring out who can pay your loans
for you work there because my my job is a nonprofit.
And so I qualify for public student loan forgiveness.
And I knew that that was going to happen. So
there was no reason for me to like quickly pay
off my loans or have to pay out of my own pocket
as little as possible. Now, I don't think I know
I'm like being repetitive, but I don't think
I realized that you like had this job lined up.
four months before graduation were you because
people are very much all over the forums like
when when should I start applying like for jobs
you know what I mean like were you insecure about
that like well I won't have my life I won't have
my DEA like no I I think if anything it was like
I have to finish this like I have a job now I
have a job waiting for me. And to me, that was
because I didn't take, you know, we could take
our boards early. Like we could take them after
the second year because we met all of our clinicals.
I didn't take them immediately. I took mine in
like April of the year we graduated. Like I think
some people took them that summer, like while
we were all applying for like IRB. Some people
also took their boards. I didn't do that. I waited.
I took them in April. But it just kind of gave
me that oomph to be like, I'm finishing this
program. Nothing is getting in my way. I know
what's waiting for me. And I didn't want to be
six, eight months after graduation trying to
find a job. So if someone was going to give me
a job, I was going. Even if I didn't like it,
I'm going to be there for a bit. And I'm going
to learn. And that's the best thing. And honestly,
I think that that happens a lot. It was the same
way I felt with nursing. I got a nursing degree
in a loan repayment thing. So I got a nursing
degree for free, and I had to work for the hospital
system for three years after I graduated. And
they gave me a job. I worked on one of the hardest
PCU units in the city, where at another time,
I had somebody tell me, if you can work on that
unit, you can work anywhere. So that's just how
I've looked at every job. Whether it's good or
bad, it's going to teach me something. Yeah,
for sure. And I mean, you've learned a lot clearly.
Tell us more about like this community that you're
launching or is it a community? What is it exactly
that will be this resource for psych NPs who
are really interested in inpatient psych? Because
we definitely need more resources for people
who are like committed to that. Yeah. So once
I started posting on TikTok when I did your little
program that we did, which was great, the kind
of. our the brand sprint it was fun and it kind
of just got me to post things that I tell everybody
about that are probably tired of hearing me repeat
myself so now I just tell it to the masses um
but I think that uh when it came time to like
looking at a lot of people got no one's talking
about this I haven't heard any other inpatient
providers you told me that and so I was like
okay I'm just going to build a general like school
community and We'll do like a monthly meeting.
We'll have weekly like case studies. Hey, drop
something you learned. How is your schedule?
Also, like, what are you being asked to do? What's
your role? Do you feel like you're being given
too much? And like kind of a little bit of a
not complaining, but where you need to go with
people who understand who are going to be like,
yeah, that's not right or that doesn't seem right.
And I did decide I was going to open it to NPs
and PAs, only advanced practice providers. No,
no physicians allowed. Sorry, not sorry. Y 'all
get your own stuff all the time. So you don't
get to come. But I just thought that because
I have a lot of psych PAs who comment on my stuff
and send me messages. And so I thought that that
was important to include them. And because there's
just not a lot out there. And there's a lot of
people commenting here or there, but not not
a lot of this is what happens. This is what it
looks like. And that's what people don't really
understand. And the public doesn't understand
what an inpatient unit does. I think everybody
thinks. This is what TV tells me. This is what
movies tell me. And then they just think that
that's what it is. And sometimes it is. You know,
that's one of the myths is that that just is
what it is, but it's not. And I think a lot of
people think that the locked door scares them
and they don't really realize that the locked
door is more to protect the patient than it is.
The public, because the locked door is there
because the patient is not safe to be outside.
The public is unsafe to them at that point. It's
not there really to protect other people most
of the time. It's because somebody has been deemed
unsafe towards themselves and they have to be
protected at that moment. Right. Yeah, that makes
sense. What do you love the most about working
in patient psych? So I like I view every patient
as a puzzle. I like. being able to sit down and
try to see what treatment this patient has had,
what hasn't worked, what could work. And I'm
in a little bit of a lucky perspective now that
my unit has transitioned to a step -down unit.
So I'm getting patients who have been hospitalized
at least a week at another facility before they
come to me. And so I get to do more fine -tuning
that outpatient providers would love to do, but
they don't get the follow -up all the time. So
I might have patients who are with me for a few
weeks to even a few months if they're waiting
for a very specific type of community placement.
So I really get to see their mood, how it adjusts,
how it changes to admissions and discharges on
the unit, how they deal with staff, how they're
going to deal with staff when they're at a group
home. How are we going to get your medication
regimen to where you are literally the most stable
I can get you before you leave this facility?
And so I like being able to try to put those
pieces together. I like being able to sit down,
ask as many questions as I can, be as nosy as
I can when it's clinically appropriate, put my
puzzle together, and then try to figure out all
the pieces that are the glue that keep my puzzle
together. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes
sense. What are your top three resources that
you would recommend for inpatient psych? So I
obviously use Carlot a lot. Um, because it's
just easy, like it's quick reference. Um, and
it's just easy to get to the information. Everybody
uses stall cause it's just kind of the go -to,
right? That's for like, if I'm looking for more
detailed information, am I looking for renal
impairment, liver impairment, like more details
specifically, then I go there. And my third is
literally my other providers. We are a very close
knit group. We are, uh, we've all worked together
a very long time. I think. Two of my other providers
are also dual certified FNPs. So we get the medical
component, which is nice because I do prescribe
medical meds. I know a lot of people think that's
outside scope, but there is no medical provider
that comes to our facility. It's a subacute unit.
It is psych NPs and that's it. So there are times
where I am adjusting, you know, a sliding scale
or I'm adjusting blood pressure meds, but I do
it under the discussion with a person who does
hold a dual certification so that I can document
that. but they are a breadth of knowledge and
we can usually figure out anything. So even though
we are like seven days on, seven days off, we
are case consulting a lot. Like, hey, I'm admitting
this person. I know you're not back for a couple
of days, but this is what I'm thinking. And we
do a really good handoff. We do a written handoff.
We have a board that has all these things. We
highlight it based off what we still need. And
then we do a verbal handoff the Tuesday before
we switch so that it's just like, hey. I put
this in the report, but I need you to verbally
know I need you to follow up on it so that we
don't miss things. Yeah. So there's like a whole
system for it. Yeah. How did you get into teaching
at NAU? And yeah, tell us about that. Because
I think a lot of us psych NPs are like, oh, would
that be a cool like side gig that we do? Like,
so just curious, like. Yeah. So teaching for
me came. By accident, actually. So I was talking
to one of the NPs that works at one of our other
facilities. She was like, hey, an NAU nursing
instructor came. They want to bring students
like just like bachelor's degree nurses. They
want to bring nursing students. They were wondering
if any of us wanted to teach clinicals. And my
daughter was getting ready to graduate high school.
And I'm like, well, this will pay for her tuition.
So I'm going to look into it. So I looked into
it. And at the time, it was just like a pay by
credit. And so I did undergrad the first semester.
And then after that, everybody was like, oh,
you have a doctorate and you're a psych MP? You
want to teach? Like, do you want to teach teach
instead of just doing clinicals? And I was like,
I'll take a course. So it was actually the psych
MP, the PMHEP program at NAU is still new. It's
only a couple of years old. And so it was the
first time that they were going to be teaching
the PEDS course. So Miriam, who is my counterpart
in the program, she developed the whole program,
got it accredited, all that stuff. She's like,
hey, do you want to teach the PEDS course this
summer? I was like, I guess if it's the first
time, I guess I can't mess it up. There's no
standard. So let's do it. And then a full time
position came available and I applied. And it's
a it's a long process to get hired, even if you're
already working at a university. There's a lot
of interviews. There's board interviews. You
have to, like, do a presentation. And so I did
it. I applied and it all worked out and it's
been it's been great. And so I teach now I'm
kind of on the same flow where I teach the same
courses, just different times of the year, because
we did admit people on like a rolling basis to
start. And now we're just kind of getting. to
where we have big cohorts of students. You and
then we have another buddy we went to school
with named Andrea. She is also teaching. And
so she's like, you should teach, you should teach.
So it just was cool that you guys kind of started
doing that around the same time and that you
guys both really enjoy it and love it. Yeah,
I was a little bit unsure because my, honestly,
my personality is not for everybody. I'm not
the... I'm not the easiest to I just I have no
nonsense. I don't want to hear it. I want you
to know the information. I don't want to fluff
it. But my students enjoy that. And I get that
feedback a lot because I just tell you, like,
this is how this reads. This is how it looks,
which is kind of the difficult part for students
is you get stuck in your book and you don't really
learn the patient. And that's where I think,
especially like working on an inpatient unit,
people forget that you are a nurse. Like you
have all of this nursing knowledge and the ability
to assess, the ability to question, the ability
to like de -escalate. Those are nursing skills.
They're not provider skills. You learned them
a long time ago. Pull them back out. Yeah, that's
awesome. I love that you're like doing all these
different things. Like you're teaching at like
a traditional institution. You're like creating
innovative. digital products online like you're
doing social media like you're just kind of like
trying it all out like why not yeah yeah i mean
nothing really scares me or bothers me i don't
know how many people watch my videos sometimes
a lot sometimes none it just is what it is but
i think nobody knows it if you don't tell them
um and that's kind of i think one of the big
things about working inpatient like i said people
don't know they have a preconceived notion as
to what it is And there's a lot, there's a lot
of facets to it. You know, my unit does a lot
of involuntary treatment and that's hard. It's
one of the like biggest ethical crossroads in
medicine is when you're taking somebody's autonomy
away and you're telling them like, sorry, but
this is going to happen. And that is, it's so
hard. And I'm just kind of a big believer in
talking to my patients, whether they can consent
or not. I try to give choices within the non
-choice. I understand you don't want this long
-acting injection, but you're going to receive
it. This is why. You're on court -ordered treatment.
It's been deemed necessary. You stabilized on
it before. I know you don't want it. You're going
to get it. Do you want it before snack or after
snack? So I try to give them a choice within
the non -choice. And sometimes that helps. You
know, you might get called a couple names and
they might scream the whole time. But a lot of
times it at least de -escalates it in the moment.
And honestly... A patient's probably not going
to remember all the meds that I give them while
they're with me, but they're definitely going
to remember if I talk to them like a person or
not. That's very true. Have you ever felt like
your safety was in question? I know that's something
that comes up pretty regularly and people have
different feelings about it. And it probably
obviously depends on the setting and whatnot.
But I'm just curious. It does. So, I mean, I've
had unsafe. situations in all aspects of my career,
working in the ER. It's actually how my husband
and I met. I had a sister of a patient who threatened
to slap me. And then this big human stood in
front of me and I was like, oh, who's that? And
so that's how that started. But right. Yeah.
But as far as like safety, it depends on the
day. And I have been assaulted. I had I made
a video about it on TikTok on the five year anniversary,
which was last month. I. as just gotten back
from maternity leave. I was on like my second
or third week back. And I had a patient who just
didn't want to be there anymore. He was not psychotic.
It was a complete choice to assault me because
he knew he was going to get removed from the
unit if he assaulted me. As a provider perspective,
a lot of times that will get you taken off of
the unit, especially if you're deemed stable.
So what we've determined with police is that
if a patient is discharge ready, and they assault
somebody, they can be removed from the unit because
they've been deemed ready to go. They're just
waiting on like one thing. And normally that's
housing. So if you're just standing there waiting
for housing and you decide to punch somebody
in the face, you're going to go to jail. You're
not going to be charged in the state of Arizona
because the attorney general has their own little
thought on that, but you will be removed from
the unit. And so he knew he was going to get
off the unit. And so he, I got hit a lot. I ended
up in the ER in a neck brace. It was a day. I
had a nurse get assaulted all at the same time.
And it was just one of those things. And cops
got there. He put his hands behind his back and
said, I'm ready to go now. And so it just kind
of is what it is. And I know that that sucks
and it doesn't really sound right. But unfortunately,
it is kind of something that we are at risk of
all the time and in health care in general. Like
to say that assaults don't happen on a med surge
unit or by family in an ICU is not. accurate.
And none of it makes it okay. But it's just one
of those things where it can happen. I trust
my staff. You know, I ask and I make, I make
slightly light of it now. Like I'll be in the,
in the bubble and I'll be like, Hey, is anybody
going to hit me today? And they'll be like, no,
we're fine. But if somebody is squirrely, they'll
tell me or, Hey, and we do that all the time.
We do that with everybody. It's just part of
the handoff. But safety is where some people
have a big concern. But it happened outpatient
too. I mean, outpatient, you're shut in an office.
And a lot of times it's just you and a patient.
And are you going to be able to get out? Maybe.
Does your safety button work? Who knows? And
so that can follow you, I think, in all aspects,
unless you're telehealth, of course. But I like
being with my patients. I like seeing my patients.
I have a lot of patients who don't like to sit.
and talk and so we walk and pace the unit we
go and sit outside there's a patio I meet them
you know if they're doing crafts I'll go sit
in the craft room like none of that bothers me
and I just you know I I haven't really felt a
significant issue since that time and I like
to think that this far in my career I can assess
if somebody is escalating enough where I can
protect myself And I've taken a lot of de -escalation
programs. Like I have to do one every year as
part of my regular job. And then NAU does their
own program too. So I'm actually, I have like
a certification in two different ones. What have
you done for like to take care of yourself with
this career that can be heavy and, you know,
pretty intense? The toll can be a lot, right?
It's a lot of, it's more like moral injury for
me. Then it is like straight up burnout. And
I think that is just my schedule. I have a come
and go schedule. I can go in like I need to be
there, obviously, like by a certain time. I can't
just like wander in at 6 p .m. But I can come
and go as need as I need to. And then I'm big
in my family. I have three kids. I have a little
guy. I try to do as much with him as I can. The
older ones are adults and they're living their
lives. But, you know, they're still here. We
take a lot of trips and we're just together as
a family a lot. And that to me is a recharge
for me. I don't really need much anything else.
If I'm with my family, I feel good. Yeah, that's
awesome. That's good that you prioritize that.
I know we're coming up on time. But one thing
I ask everybody who's on the podcast is what
does the term no prior auth mean to you? Am I
allowed to curse? Yeah. To me, it's more of a
it's like a no bullshit. I hate prior auths.
They take up so much time. And I do them even
as an inpatient provider. I do them for meds
because we're a small unit and we fill our meds
through a pharmacy. So I do prior auths all the
time. And they are complete bullshit most of
the time. I'm answering ridiculous questions
about why a patient shouldn't have this when
I decided that they should have it. And I say
it and they should get it. So that's what it
means to me. Okay. I love it. Also, one more
thing, and we're going to have you on for another
episode because there's a lot more that I know
that we want to hear from you as far as like
prepping for clinical and like for psych NP students,
especially more practical tips that way. But
you're also going to be speaking at a conference
coming up. Where is that? When is that? In case
anybody wants to check it out. That is the, it's
the Southwest NP Symposium Conference. It's the
end of July. I think it's out in Mesa. And I'm
going to be speaking on NP decision fatigue and
just kind of what that looks like and how that's
different than burnout because a lot of people
assume that they are the same thing and ways
to combat it and make your day and your day in
clinic or on the unit work better for you. You
said that's in July? Yeah, end of July. I think
July 25th. Okay, cool. Because that would be
a good opportunity, at least for local Psych
and Peace here in Arizona to come check it out,
do some networking. So yeah, very cool. All right.
Well, thank you for being here. And we'll see
you for part two soon. All right. Sounds good.