WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.419 You know, my mom worked at the state hospital 00:00:01.419 --> 00:00:04.379 as a social worker that I was just going to be, 00:00:04.440 --> 00:00:06.299 mental health was what was interesting to me. 00:00:06.440 --> 00:00:08.279 I think it was fine. I think it was great. I 00:00:08.279 --> 00:00:10.439 don't, everyone's tried to travel on nurse practitioner 00:00:10.439 --> 00:00:12.619 colleges, like, like, oh, okay. Like, that was 00:00:12.619 --> 00:00:15.720 so easy. Like, so unprepared. I don't, I mean, 00:00:15.740 --> 00:00:18.309 it's like this thing of like. Okay, so nurse 00:00:18.309 --> 00:00:20.949 practitioners or nurses who become nurse practitioners, 00:00:21.070 --> 00:00:24.429 nurses are working women majorly, right? So this 00:00:24.429 --> 00:00:26.109 nurse practitioner degree, the history of this 00:00:26.109 --> 00:00:29.469 degree was to allow for women who are working 00:00:29.469 --> 00:00:31.609 in the hardest job in the world, which is being 00:00:31.609 --> 00:00:33.109 a nurse. So they're getting the best experience. 00:00:33.409 --> 00:00:36.109 Now, did you know that you wanted to do a group 00:00:36.109 --> 00:00:38.530 practice from the start? The first nurse practitioners 00:00:38.530 --> 00:00:40.710 I hired were friends of mine. Nothing happens 00:00:40.710 --> 00:00:43.429 overnight. Everything's slow. I remember I went 00:00:43.429 --> 00:00:45.469 on this three week long trip right when I graduated 00:00:45.469 --> 00:00:46.740 and I created this business. Like, we're going 00:00:46.740 --> 00:00:48.259 to have to find places for me to stop and see 00:00:48.259 --> 00:00:49.759 clients because I was going to see clients for 00:00:49.759 --> 00:00:51.880 a little time. It took a really long time. I 00:00:51.880 --> 00:00:55.399 think that the business funneling them, the psychiatric 00:00:55.399 --> 00:00:57.380 course for the NP was my baby. Like, that is 00:00:57.380 --> 00:00:59.179 all me. You know what I mean? Like, that was, 00:00:59.299 --> 00:01:01.719 I love that course. It's still there. It's updated. 00:01:01.960 --> 00:01:04.040 It has an incredible section on ADHD now. People 00:01:04.040 --> 00:01:05.739 should check it out. If you've bought it, they 00:01:05.739 --> 00:01:07.739 just updated it. So go check out the ADHD stuff. 00:01:07.959 --> 00:01:09.799 Check out the Suboxone. I have, like, injectables 00:01:09.799 --> 00:01:13.040 on there. This week on No Prior Roth, I'm sitting 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:15.659 down with Nick Goodwin. Nick is a psychiatric 00:01:15.659 --> 00:01:17.920 nurse practitioner and the founder of Goodwin 00:01:17.920 --> 00:01:21.060 Health Cafe, a multi -provider psychiatric practice 00:01:21.060 --> 00:01:23.939 in Spokane, Washington, that specializes in treatment 00:01:23.939 --> 00:01:27.200 -resistant depression. He offers medication management, 00:01:27.519 --> 00:01:30.099 Spravato, and TMS, and he has grown his team 00:01:30.099 --> 00:01:32.859 from one to four providers across two locations. 00:01:33.459 --> 00:01:36.420 Before opening his practice, he spent five years 00:01:36.420 --> 00:01:38.859 as a psych nurse in a state hospital, taught 00:01:38.859 --> 00:01:41.599 undergrad psych nursing, and worked in adolescent 00:01:41.599 --> 00:01:44.359 residential treatment. He's also created four 00:01:44.359 --> 00:01:46.439 courses with the elite nurse practitioner that 00:01:46.439 --> 00:01:48.700 teach NPs both the clinical side and the business 00:01:48.700 --> 00:01:51.980 side of psychiatric practice. Nick has some clear 00:01:51.980 --> 00:01:54.219 opinions on where psychiatric treatment is heading, 00:01:54.359 --> 00:01:57.219 including psychedelics and functional approaches. 00:01:57.760 --> 00:02:01.439 Let's get into it. Welcome, Nick. What's up? 00:02:01.780 --> 00:02:03.939 Hey, how did you know all that? That's a great 00:02:03.939 --> 00:02:05.579 bio. Can you send that to me? I'm going to put 00:02:05.579 --> 00:02:08.620 it on my website. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's 00:02:08.620 --> 00:02:10.360 great. That's a good background, man. I'd like 00:02:10.360 --> 00:02:11.620 that to stay. Good. I'm doing good. How are you 00:02:11.620 --> 00:02:14.849 doing? Good. Good. It's been a while. It's been 00:02:14.849 --> 00:02:17.909 a while. I'm happy that you're on because we 00:02:17.909 --> 00:02:20.590 need you to tell us all the things. Nick and 00:02:20.590 --> 00:02:23.469 I first connected, I think because of Facebook 00:02:23.469 --> 00:02:25.689 Messenger. He's been in private practice for 00:02:25.689 --> 00:02:29.310 a long time, I feel. How many years has it been? 00:02:31.009 --> 00:02:34.189 Eight years, maybe. Yeah. Seven years. Because 00:02:34.189 --> 00:02:36.590 I remember when I was getting started, I was 00:02:36.590 --> 00:02:39.740 like messaging you like, hey. Do you want to 00:02:39.740 --> 00:02:42.500 coach me? You want to do some mentorship? Do 00:02:42.500 --> 00:02:44.960 you remember that? Yeah, I remember you reached 00:02:44.960 --> 00:02:46.400 out. That was great. That was great. I was super 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:49.099 flattered. And it was cool. And then you were 00:02:49.099 --> 00:02:50.979 doing mentorship already. So I was like, well, 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:52.479 tell me about what you're doing. So I thought 00:02:52.479 --> 00:02:55.580 that was a cool conversation. Yeah, it was. And 00:02:55.580 --> 00:02:58.199 then now we just are both like we haven't connected. 00:02:58.360 --> 00:03:00.780 So this is so great to have you here. Can you 00:03:00.780 --> 00:03:04.159 tell us a little bit about just kind of what 00:03:04.159 --> 00:03:07.419 got you into being a psych NP and why you're 00:03:07.419 --> 00:03:10.050 so passionate about it? Sure. Yeah. But real 00:03:10.050 --> 00:03:11.750 quick, I want to say this podcast is killer. 00:03:12.110 --> 00:03:14.469 This is super rad. You have like these guests 00:03:14.469 --> 00:03:16.909 are also really like Daniel Carlette. I know 00:03:16.909 --> 00:03:19.129 you're working with him, too. That is super badass. 00:03:19.310 --> 00:03:22.250 That's super dope. That was super intimidating 00:03:22.250 --> 00:03:24.810 to interview him. But it went well. It was a 00:03:24.810 --> 00:03:26.810 great interview. I learned a lot. He's cool to 00:03:26.810 --> 00:03:28.490 hear. I like that you got into kind of his background 00:03:28.490 --> 00:03:30.349 and his dad is a psychiatrist. I thought that 00:03:30.349 --> 00:03:32.270 was because he's kind of on the back end. Like, 00:03:32.270 --> 00:03:34.090 you know, they're giving the Carlette content. 00:03:34.169 --> 00:03:35.770 You know, you don't see a lot of his stuff. They 00:03:35.770 --> 00:03:39.659 got a couple of books. That was really fun. Good. 00:03:39.939 --> 00:03:42.500 I'm glad you enjoyed it. So I have actually interviewed 00:03:42.500 --> 00:03:45.300 Alison Sikorsky and Maria Ingala. I know I told 00:03:45.300 --> 00:03:46.819 you this already. I'm acting like you're so surprised 00:03:46.819 --> 00:03:50.680 we've already talked about this. But I had updated 00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:53.840 my Elite NP course and I wanted to include a 00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:57.219 section on AI documentation. And Alison created 00:03:57.219 --> 00:04:00.000 PMH NP Scribe, which is crazy and super awesome. 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:01.879 And that program is fabulous, by the way. I've 00:04:01.879 --> 00:04:05.099 used it. It's really, really great. And then 00:04:05.099 --> 00:04:07.680 I had cold called Maria. I guess it was cold 00:04:07.680 --> 00:04:09.539 call for both. But Maria, just like her email. 00:04:10.080 --> 00:04:12.939 And because I had taken her course on how to 00:04:12.939 --> 00:04:17.160 hire virtual assistants who are overseas, which 00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:20.560 was a really great course. I mean, I haven't 00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:22.579 done it yet, but I still thought the course was 00:04:22.579 --> 00:04:24.680 super worth it. It was super cool. And so she 00:04:24.680 --> 00:04:27.360 was willing to interview me. I was willing to 00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:28.939 get interviewed for this course as well. And 00:04:28.939 --> 00:04:31.339 she's really a great personality. She's super 00:04:31.339 --> 00:04:35.029 funny. If you guys, so that, that course is really 00:04:35.029 --> 00:04:36.529 good. The, at the end of it, there's this great 00:04:36.529 --> 00:04:40.649 part where she is interviewing her employees. 00:04:40.750 --> 00:04:42.550 So you're actually talking to these people who 00:04:42.550 --> 00:04:44.649 live in the Philippines and she's asking them 00:04:44.649 --> 00:04:46.689 what it's like in that dynamic. Cause it's, you 00:04:46.689 --> 00:04:48.310 know, you can't help but be like, is this wrong? 00:04:48.509 --> 00:04:50.250 Like, is that a bad thing to do? Like you're 00:04:50.250 --> 00:04:53.910 paying, you know, 10 bucks an hour for somebody 00:04:53.910 --> 00:04:56.170 for a professional in the Philippines. And so 00:04:56.170 --> 00:04:58.449 she interviews them and it's like, Holy smokes. 00:04:58.470 --> 00:05:00.589 She's taking care of these, you know, staff and 00:05:00.589 --> 00:05:03.199 these staff are taking care of her. it's it's 00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:05.339 really cool to see that dynamic that was a great 00:05:05.339 --> 00:05:07.720 touch to that painting that's very cool i don't 00:05:07.720 --> 00:05:09.560 i didn't realize that so that's actually part 00:05:09.560 --> 00:05:13.060 of the elite np course is like no no that's her 00:05:13.060 --> 00:05:15.040 course no no that's her course i'm trying to 00:05:15.040 --> 00:05:17.720 okay yeah go paper flower institute go check 00:05:17.720 --> 00:05:20.459 out her her course don't rely on my course for 00:05:20.459 --> 00:05:23.579 that she's a pro she also did one on for autism 00:05:23.579 --> 00:05:25.459 which was a great course i took that one as well 00:05:25.459 --> 00:05:29.500 so yeah which people have been like in my programs 00:05:29.500 --> 00:05:32.220 get maria to come so just yesterday i was like 00:05:32.220 --> 00:05:36.120 that's why okay webinar on autism and luca and 00:05:36.120 --> 00:05:38.199 she's like she doesn't want to do it yeah she 00:05:38.199 --> 00:05:39.920 doesn't want to do it that's great yeah so yeah 00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:42.019 you found some pretty cool people and and uh 00:05:42.019 --> 00:05:45.439 uh miguel had texted me out of it was funny because 00:05:45.439 --> 00:05:46.759 we had talked about it when we set this up and 00:05:46.759 --> 00:05:48.379 i was like i haven't heard from a long time because 00:05:48.379 --> 00:05:50.000 he had sent me a picture from this conference 00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:53.379 he's at um um i don't know what's maybe the nei 00:05:53.379 --> 00:05:56.620 conference it's a day elevated okay so it's a 00:05:56.620 --> 00:05:58.879 day devoted to Private practice. Are you there 00:05:58.879 --> 00:06:01.939 right now? No, you're at home. No, I wish I was. 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:04.259 Yeah. And he's like, why aren't you talking? 00:06:04.439 --> 00:06:06.500 And I was like, that's the sweetest thing to 00:06:06.500 --> 00:06:07.959 hit me up. And then, but then to hear about all 00:06:07.959 --> 00:06:09.759 the cool things he's doing, like four practices, 00:06:09.779 --> 00:06:12.060 I was like, man, you should be talking like you're 00:06:12.060 --> 00:06:14.319 the, you know what I mean? The run one practice 00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:16.339 is no joke, let alone four. So, or whatever he's 00:06:16.339 --> 00:06:18.519 doing, it's killer. So yeah. Great guests. You 00:06:18.519 --> 00:06:20.860 guys, this is a great podcast. Yeah. Oh, thanks 00:06:20.860 --> 00:06:23.939 Nick. I appreciate it. Appreciate it a lot. So. 00:06:24.750 --> 00:06:27.029 Yeah. Just tell us a little bit about like how 00:06:27.029 --> 00:06:30.149 you got into being a psych NP and just kind of 00:06:30.149 --> 00:06:32.689 how you got into private practice. Eight years 00:06:32.689 --> 00:06:34.889 is a long time. I mean, are you enjoying it? 00:06:35.009 --> 00:06:37.550 Are you burned out? Like, give us the give us 00:06:37.550 --> 00:06:40.709 the tea, Nick. I think I started. Yeah, I think 00:06:40.709 --> 00:06:43.129 that mental health was always going to be what 00:06:43.129 --> 00:06:45.009 I was going to do if I did something, you know, 00:06:45.009 --> 00:06:46.629 like when I got to when I decided what I was 00:06:46.629 --> 00:06:49.230 ultimately deciding on nursing school, you know, 00:06:49.230 --> 00:06:53.209 very young and. And it was clear that I had already 00:06:53.209 --> 00:06:55.290 sort of going into it. You know, my mom worked 00:06:55.290 --> 00:06:57.769 at the state hospital as a social worker that 00:06:57.769 --> 00:07:00.069 I was just going to be, mental health was what 00:07:00.069 --> 00:07:02.189 was interesting to me. And that just made sense 00:07:02.189 --> 00:07:04.629 for a career. So as a nurse, I went and worked 00:07:04.629 --> 00:07:06.750 for a state psychiatric hospital. I also went 00:07:06.750 --> 00:07:09.009 and worked at a state hospital and hoping that 00:07:09.009 --> 00:07:11.009 they could pay for my, or at least waive state 00:07:11.009 --> 00:07:13.910 tuition, which was a thing, which I was actually 00:07:13.910 --> 00:07:16.569 having access to. So it was sort of this thought 00:07:16.569 --> 00:07:18.649 that I would go to the nurse practitioner school 00:07:18.649 --> 00:07:20.949 and hope that they would, they would you know 00:07:20.949 --> 00:07:22.750 offset the cost which it did happen it worked 00:07:22.750 --> 00:07:25.149 out really well so um worked at the state hospital 00:07:25.149 --> 00:07:29.189 for two years before i started into a nurse practitioner 00:07:29.189 --> 00:07:31.790 program which took me five years and i ended 00:07:31.790 --> 00:07:34.290 up teaching at that time as well um with the 00:07:34.290 --> 00:07:35.850 community college which is the best job i ever 00:07:35.850 --> 00:07:40.490 had and so um so then yeah when it when i when 00:07:40.490 --> 00:07:43.610 i graduated you know i there was i was just going 00:07:43.610 --> 00:07:45.589 to start my own practice i didn't it wasn't this 00:07:45.589 --> 00:07:49.269 wish i get a job I don't I'm not exactly sure 00:07:49.269 --> 00:07:52.949 why that was just the decision I had made. There's 00:07:52.949 --> 00:07:54.850 nothing against me. That's interesting. Yeah. 00:07:54.949 --> 00:07:57.629 I don't have a problem with with employers or 00:07:57.629 --> 00:07:59.629 supervisors. You know, I mean, I didn't I didn't 00:07:59.629 --> 00:08:01.910 get fired four times like Maria did. Right. So, 00:08:01.949 --> 00:08:04.310 you know, it wasn't like this. It's just the 00:08:04.310 --> 00:08:08.160 only it is what I was going to do. And. And so 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:10.220 I, you know, opened up a practice. This was pre 00:08:10.220 --> 00:08:13.240 -COVID and my practice was online. So there wasn't 00:08:13.240 --> 00:08:17.600 quite the open arms to, to online services. And 00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:20.120 so I, you know, and I was trying to credential 00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:21.480 with insurances. I wasn't sure I was going to 00:08:21.480 --> 00:08:23.740 do it. So ultimately I think what got me, got 00:08:23.740 --> 00:08:25.860 me a headstart was I got a job working inpatient. 00:08:25.899 --> 00:08:27.600 You know, it was, it was, it was contracted. 00:08:27.779 --> 00:08:31.439 So my LLC and my, you know, was, was used, but 00:08:31.439 --> 00:08:33.279 that gave me money. I made money, quite a bit 00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:36.669 of money because I worked quite a bit. And then 00:08:36.669 --> 00:08:40.129 it also gave me sort of experience and autonomy 00:08:40.129 --> 00:08:44.570 as a nurse practitioner and pretty quickly, I 00:08:44.570 --> 00:08:47.129 think. And so then eventually I couldn't do all 00:08:47.129 --> 00:08:48.809 the things I was doing and I cut back and now 00:08:48.809 --> 00:08:51.889 I'm just doing private practice. Okay. Okay. 00:08:52.090 --> 00:08:54.789 And how many clinical hours do you think you 00:08:54.789 --> 00:08:59.710 do weekly right now versus administrative? Yeah, 00:08:59.730 --> 00:09:02.990 that's a great question. Probably close to 25, 00:09:03.149 --> 00:09:07.570 30 clinical. And maybe five or 10 administrative. 00:09:08.289 --> 00:09:11.250 It kind of blends together. So I think I'm, I'm 00:09:11.250 --> 00:09:13.169 only slotted to work three days a week through 00:09:13.169 --> 00:09:16.509 the summer for clinical. And, and some of the 00:09:16.509 --> 00:09:18.490 clinical days are, you know, you, you're doing 00:09:18.490 --> 00:09:19.990 a lot of administration throughout. It's so hard 00:09:19.990 --> 00:09:22.169 to time that, but yeah. No, that makes sense. 00:09:22.730 --> 00:09:27.129 So why was your, why were you in school for five 00:09:27.129 --> 00:09:29.929 years for the psych NP? How long did it take 00:09:29.929 --> 00:09:32.590 you? No, no. Why did, how long did it take you 00:09:32.590 --> 00:09:34.909 to do it? three and a half I think I don't know 00:09:34.909 --> 00:09:38.570 five years just sounds so extensive yeah yeah 00:09:38.570 --> 00:09:40.370 yeah I like to tell people because then I ultimately 00:09:40.370 --> 00:09:41.809 went to college for nine years and they're like 00:09:41.809 --> 00:09:43.590 nurse practitioners go to school for three years 00:09:43.590 --> 00:09:45.049 like I went to school for nine years I don't 00:09:45.049 --> 00:09:47.950 know what it was talking about um yeah I mean 00:09:47.950 --> 00:09:50.070 it was it was a it was a BS in the DNP program 00:09:50.070 --> 00:09:52.330 so it had a kind of extra year tacked on I don't 00:09:52.330 --> 00:09:54.070 know if you did that or not and then I didn't 00:09:54.070 --> 00:09:57.750 do it necessarily full -time so okay that makes 00:09:57.750 --> 00:09:59.879 sense you were doing it part -time Okay. Yeah. 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:02.879 Gotcha. And have you always been, oh, go ahead. 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:05.679 I didn't have any money either when I started. 00:10:05.779 --> 00:10:07.860 And so I was trying to use that waiver program. 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:10.100 So I was just barely taking classes. And I remember 00:10:10.100 --> 00:10:12.000 I emailed the teacher saying, hey, I have to 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:14.919 not take the summer class because I don't have 00:10:14.919 --> 00:10:17.159 any money. And she was not, that was not something, 00:10:17.259 --> 00:10:19.000 you know, the program wanted to hear. This is 00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:20.720 the last time we're offering this course. I don't 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:21.980 know what you're going to take instead. And I 00:10:21.980 --> 00:10:23.860 was like, oh, they ended up offering it again. 00:10:23.940 --> 00:10:25.840 But I needed like, okay, maybe I need to start 00:10:25.840 --> 00:10:28.039 spending some money on this. So the first year 00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:30.870 was kind of. First year or two, I just took the 00:10:30.870 --> 00:10:33.009 amount of classes I needed to in order to not 00:10:33.009 --> 00:10:34.210 have to pay anything. And then I was like, OK, 00:10:34.289 --> 00:10:36.090 clinical wasn't covered by the waiver. And I 00:10:36.090 --> 00:10:38.149 had to start where the practicum or whatever. 00:10:38.269 --> 00:10:39.610 So I had to start paying money. And so I kind 00:10:39.610 --> 00:10:45.269 of went slower at first. Gotcha. OK, so how how 00:10:45.269 --> 00:10:48.830 was your schooling experience and your clinicals? 00:10:49.230 --> 00:10:51.169 I think it was fine. I think it was great. I 00:10:51.169 --> 00:10:53.350 don't everyone's try to grab on nurse practitioner 00:10:53.350 --> 00:10:55.990 colleges like like, OK, like it was so easy. 00:10:56.699 --> 00:11:00.000 So unprepared. I mean, it's like this thing of 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:03.980 like, okay, so nurse practitioners are nurses 00:11:03.980 --> 00:11:06.899 who become nurse practitioners. Nurses are working 00:11:06.899 --> 00:11:09.639 women, majorly, right? So this nurse practitioner 00:11:09.639 --> 00:11:12.480 degree, the history of this degree, was to allow 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:16.679 for women who are working in the hardest job 00:11:16.679 --> 00:11:18.480 in the world, which is being a nurse, so they're 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:20.519 getting the best experience. They got the hardest 00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:23.970 BSN, the hardest degree to get. It's like statistically 00:11:23.970 --> 00:11:26.190 the hardest degree to get an RN and they're working 00:11:26.190 --> 00:11:27.590 and they have kids and they want to go back to 00:11:27.590 --> 00:11:30.950 school. So these programs were designed for them. 00:11:31.110 --> 00:11:34.309 And so it is horrifically sexist and terrible 00:11:34.309 --> 00:11:36.870 that we're getting shit on so hard right now. 00:11:37.090 --> 00:11:39.250 But it's the programs are designed for that. 00:11:39.309 --> 00:11:43.350 And we were competent, prepared, you know, like, 00:11:43.450 --> 00:11:47.110 you know, good, you know, really nurses don't 00:11:47.110 --> 00:11:49.850 mess around in a sense that I know that a nurse 00:11:49.850 --> 00:11:51.649 is going to be an incredible communicator. Obviously, 00:11:51.669 --> 00:11:53.799 there's exceptions, but. But nurses just know 00:11:53.799 --> 00:11:55.779 how to talk to people. And so none of that, they 00:11:55.779 --> 00:11:56.940 go into school and they learn what they need 00:11:56.940 --> 00:11:58.539 to know. They get the hours they need to get 00:11:58.539 --> 00:12:01.639 and then they're proficient. And, you know, so 00:12:01.639 --> 00:12:03.440 now the schools are scrambling to fix things 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:06.519 because of the reputation. And they're still 00:12:06.519 --> 00:12:07.759 getting critique. And it's like, well, I don't 00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:09.059 know. I think the school is getting harder and 00:12:09.059 --> 00:12:12.559 harder. So obviously the world or other people 00:12:12.559 --> 00:12:15.279 are saying that it needed to be more intense 00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:17.460 for nurse practitioners or whatever. And now 00:12:17.460 --> 00:12:19.320 it's becoming more intense. So they're going 00:12:19.320 --> 00:12:21.820 to have to stop. you know telling us that because 00:12:21.820 --> 00:12:23.159 schools are just getting harder and harder i 00:12:23.159 --> 00:12:27.639 think yeah no i hear you okay one of the questions 00:12:27.639 --> 00:12:30.940 we get a lot is what are your suggestions for 00:12:30.940 --> 00:12:35.200 someone who's preparing for psych np clinical 00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:40.299 what would you tell that person i would say like 00:12:40.299 --> 00:12:44.500 you know a private practice is is where people 00:12:44.500 --> 00:12:47.320 are going to end up and it's a hard place to 00:12:47.320 --> 00:12:51.570 get a lot of hands -on experience Um, and I think 00:12:51.570 --> 00:12:54.769 that, um, you're going to want the hands -on 00:12:54.769 --> 00:12:56.549 experience. And I don't think that people who 00:12:56.549 --> 00:12:58.870 are taking clinical, you know, taking students 00:12:58.870 --> 00:13:01.529 are like, sit there, be quiet, just watch. Obviously 00:13:01.529 --> 00:13:03.350 they shouldn't be doing that, but I don't, sometimes 00:13:03.350 --> 00:13:06.250 they don't know exactly how to, you know, use 00:13:06.250 --> 00:13:08.970 you as, you know, and, and the ideal situation, 00:13:09.250 --> 00:13:12.570 I think like, ideally you do an intake, you follow 00:13:12.570 --> 00:13:15.049 up with that patient and you sort of fill the 00:13:15.049 --> 00:13:17.350 caseload while you're being supervised. Um, cause 00:13:17.350 --> 00:13:19.159 sometimes it's hard to be like, I have a patient 00:13:19.159 --> 00:13:21.820 here who's been on, you know, Latuda for three 00:13:21.820 --> 00:13:23.659 years and we're going to talk about his boat 00:13:23.659 --> 00:13:25.000 he just got this weekend and make sure he doesn't 00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:25.960 have any side effects. You know what I mean? 00:13:26.059 --> 00:13:28.460 Like, I mean, you could do that too. And, you 00:13:28.460 --> 00:13:32.379 know, but so I would say kind of come in with 00:13:32.379 --> 00:13:33.860 a game plan, maybe even communicate with your 00:13:33.860 --> 00:13:36.000 preceptor. Like, hey, I really tell them I really 00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:37.940 want to be involved. Maybe you have a hard time 00:13:37.940 --> 00:13:39.440 initiating. Maybe you do have some of that social 00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:41.220 anxiety. And so just maybe be upfront. Like, 00:13:41.259 --> 00:13:43.100 I really want to be involved. I really want to 00:13:43.100 --> 00:13:45.960 step in. I want to share appointment space and 00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:48.779 communicate. I want to lead appointments. And 00:13:48.779 --> 00:13:50.620 so just to give a heads up, if, you know, if, 00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:52.899 if you don't mind helping me be accountable to 00:13:52.899 --> 00:13:55.139 that. So I'm not, so I think sometimes the preceptors 00:13:55.139 --> 00:13:56.600 think, well, they just want to sit there and, 00:13:56.620 --> 00:13:58.080 you know, they need to, they need to be pulled 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:00.879 in. So, and, and I remember doing that as a student 00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:02.519 being like, Hey, I'll lead the session or I can 00:14:02.519 --> 00:14:04.080 do this intake. Or I didn't know that I never 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:05.360 met the person coming in. Like, Hey, how's it 00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:07.220 going today? You know, and my preceptor is super 00:14:07.220 --> 00:14:08.860 cool with it. And so sometimes I'm surprised 00:14:08.860 --> 00:14:11.700 there's, you know, I, and, and now, you know, 00:14:11.700 --> 00:14:13.620 we do offer other services that actually are 00:14:13.620 --> 00:14:15.440 being pretty student friendly, like Spirato. 00:14:16.059 --> 00:14:18.440 where it's very easy like oh you go into the 00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:20.440 room and you do the treatment you know and you 00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:22.360 talk about their mental health and their their 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:24.419 meds and and you do it with them a couple times 00:14:24.419 --> 00:14:25.980 and they're proficient and i see the patient 00:14:25.980 --> 00:14:27.639 they see the patient so it ends up being really 00:14:27.639 --> 00:14:30.320 clean but but you really want to have that hands 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:31.899 -on experience because because private practice 00:14:31.899 --> 00:14:34.059 is pretty unique it's hard to get it's hard to 00:14:34.059 --> 00:14:35.799 see it as an rn rn experience i think is really 00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:38.320 important but it's hard to see that world as 00:14:38.320 --> 00:14:40.059 an rn and that's probably where we'll be where 00:14:40.059 --> 00:14:43.799 most of us will end up that's right yeah i know 00:14:43.799 --> 00:14:47.320 those are all Great suggestions. OK, so when 00:14:47.320 --> 00:14:50.580 you opened your private practice, that was what, 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:53.799 2018? Yeah, I think so. I think that's when I 00:14:53.799 --> 00:14:55.740 graduated. So I opened it right away. So not 00:14:55.740 --> 00:14:57.919 that it was like just, you know, it took it took 00:14:57.919 --> 00:15:00.320 a little while for it to be, you know, its own 00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:04.980 entity. But but it existed in 2018. How much 00:15:04.980 --> 00:15:09.330 money did you spend? on getting it started and 00:15:09.330 --> 00:15:13.490 where did you go for advice or like how did you 00:15:13.490 --> 00:15:16.769 how'd you do it yeah so that's a great question 00:15:16.769 --> 00:15:18.830 i think my mom gave me like three thousand dollars 00:15:18.830 --> 00:15:21.149 when i graduated so i could use that to pay for 00:15:21.149 --> 00:15:23.210 my dea which was maybe the biggest expense at 00:15:23.210 --> 00:15:25.690 the time eight hundred dollars to feed my uh 00:15:25.690 --> 00:15:29.450 office ally account to feed my i don't know if 00:15:29.450 --> 00:15:31.169 i was using grasshopper at the time which i'm 00:15:31.169 --> 00:15:33.750 not using anymore um don't use grasshopper maybe 00:15:33.750 --> 00:15:37.450 you should cut that i'm sorry um the uh Um, you 00:15:37.450 --> 00:15:39.470 know, whatever softwares I had sort of, I used 00:15:39.470 --> 00:15:41.970 Doximity, which is free fax. I use Doximy for 00:15:41.970 --> 00:15:44.509 free telehealth and I didn't have an office and, 00:15:44.610 --> 00:15:47.669 and I used, and so I worked from home, you know, 00:15:47.669 --> 00:15:49.750 and just didn't see, saw a couple of people. 00:15:50.269 --> 00:15:53.049 And then a friend of mine who had a nonprofit 00:15:53.049 --> 00:15:57.330 had an office and she rented it to me for $500, 00:15:57.350 --> 00:15:59.909 I think. No, no. Maybe she just told me I could 00:15:59.909 --> 00:16:01.149 work there. She could, she told me I could use 00:16:01.149 --> 00:16:02.690 it for free. She didn't rent it to me. She said, 00:16:02.730 --> 00:16:05.029 you could be here for free, which was a gift. 00:16:05.789 --> 00:16:09.049 And I worked there until they didn't really want 00:16:09.049 --> 00:16:10.750 to rent the office anymore. And the entire office 00:16:10.750 --> 00:16:13.570 suite, which was three offices, four offices, 00:16:13.590 --> 00:16:16.049 I think, but kind of a janky building, it was 00:16:16.049 --> 00:16:18.309 500. And so I took it over and then sort of returned 00:16:18.309 --> 00:16:20.590 the favor. They worked there for free because 00:16:20.590 --> 00:16:24.110 we had space for it. And so that ended up being 00:16:24.110 --> 00:16:26.470 my biggest expense for a while. And nothing has 00:16:26.470 --> 00:16:27.850 to be expensive, especially if you're not trying 00:16:27.850 --> 00:16:30.129 to eat, right? If you have another source of 00:16:30.129 --> 00:16:35.220 income. Which you did. which I did, being a psychiatric 00:16:35.220 --> 00:16:38.220 nurse practitioner is not expensive at all as 00:16:38.220 --> 00:16:41.360 a private practice. And then once you make money, 00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:45.000 buy the expensive EHR. I would get an EHR right 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:51.559 away. I would use Spruce right away. I can't 00:16:51.559 --> 00:16:52.899 think of another example, but those are expenses 00:16:52.899 --> 00:16:55.379 I would say, try to budget those in right away 00:16:55.379 --> 00:16:58.990 because adding an EHR later. You don't have to 00:16:58.990 --> 00:17:01.610 be, I guess, I don't know. But those things felt 00:17:01.610 --> 00:17:03.610 like I should have used a phone service right 00:17:03.610 --> 00:17:05.029 away. I used my cell phone, which was a mistake. 00:17:05.869 --> 00:17:10.609 Yeah. What EHR are you on? I'm doing advanced 00:17:10.609 --> 00:17:14.549 MD now. I've messed around with OzMind. I've 00:17:14.549 --> 00:17:16.549 messed around with Office Ally. I've messed around 00:17:16.549 --> 00:17:19.509 with Simple Practice. And Office Ally, I think, 00:17:19.529 --> 00:17:22.230 checked the boxes and met the needs. It is painful 00:17:22.230 --> 00:17:24.660 to switch. So sometimes it's nice just to have 00:17:24.660 --> 00:17:26.440 the right one right away. I think maybe practice 00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:29.140 queue could do that for a lot of people. I think 00:17:29.140 --> 00:17:30.700 the most important thing to me became very obvious. 00:17:30.740 --> 00:17:33.579 I need to have an EHR that is the same company 00:17:33.579 --> 00:17:35.819 as a billing software and I need them to, to 00:17:35.819 --> 00:17:38.480 communicate seamlessly. And because that's what, 00:17:38.500 --> 00:17:40.059 that's the issue I had with Ozmind is that it 00:17:40.059 --> 00:17:41.500 was trying to communicate with advanced MD for 00:17:41.500 --> 00:17:44.059 billing and it was awful. It was, it was, it 00:17:44.059 --> 00:17:46.279 was, it was undoable. It just wasn't. And I think 00:17:46.279 --> 00:17:47.539 I heard later that they had switched companies. 00:17:47.660 --> 00:17:48.660 I was like, well, they didn't switch with me. 00:17:48.740 --> 00:17:51.710 Cause I'm still, you know, so they, So it was 00:17:51.710 --> 00:17:53.650 just wasn't, it was not realistic. And I think 00:17:53.650 --> 00:17:56.450 I wouldn't try that again. And I think that practice 00:17:56.450 --> 00:17:58.170 queue does it through office ally, which I haven't 00:17:58.170 --> 00:17:59.710 heard complaints about. So maybe that's an exception, 00:17:59.849 --> 00:18:01.569 but ultimately there's pros and cons to each 00:18:01.569 --> 00:18:04.470 as mine was new and super buggy. Our calendar 00:18:04.470 --> 00:18:07.910 for Spravato was bananas and it just could not, 00:18:07.910 --> 00:18:09.970 it just could not keep up with it. It was super 00:18:09.970 --> 00:18:12.930 laggy. So we just honestly switched to advanced 00:18:12.930 --> 00:18:14.750 MD because that's who we had, we're building 00:18:14.750 --> 00:18:17.829 throughout the time when we swapped and. It was 00:18:17.829 --> 00:18:19.690 going to be so much less painful to keep the 00:18:19.690 --> 00:18:21.829 billing side and just add the EHR, which is fine. 00:18:21.890 --> 00:18:25.150 It's fine now. It's expensive. Gotcha. Okay. 00:18:25.309 --> 00:18:28.009 Gotcha. Now, did you know that you wanted to 00:18:28.009 --> 00:18:31.730 do a group practice from the start? Or how did 00:18:31.730 --> 00:18:34.609 kind of people want to know about the hiring 00:18:34.609 --> 00:18:37.569 of other psych MPs and how to do that? Like any 00:18:37.569 --> 00:18:42.190 tips for that and how you did it? Yeah, I have 00:18:42.190 --> 00:18:44.269 some painful stories about that. I mean, I think 00:18:44.269 --> 00:18:46.109 I did. I must have because I tried to hire people 00:18:46.109 --> 00:18:49.690 right away. So whether or not I articulated that 00:18:49.690 --> 00:18:52.609 desire in the beginning, I did try to hire people 00:18:52.609 --> 00:18:55.309 right away. And I hired the first, the first 00:18:55.309 --> 00:18:57.190 nurse practitioners I hired were friends of mine 00:18:57.190 --> 00:19:00.410 and both of them aren't working with me anymore. 00:19:01.009 --> 00:19:04.130 One of them, well, one of them is really, was 00:19:04.130 --> 00:19:06.089 like my best friend. Maybe he's still a really 00:19:06.089 --> 00:19:07.849 good bud of mine. I like him a lot. I wish I 00:19:07.849 --> 00:19:10.309 saw more. And I talked to him in a joining and 00:19:10.309 --> 00:19:12.230 I think that's what I did. I think I talked him 00:19:12.230 --> 00:19:15.690 into it. And, and, and. sort of lined up weird 00:19:15.690 --> 00:19:17.410 where the first day I really saw people I had 00:19:17.410 --> 00:19:20.230 I couldn't be there and and I think that's that 00:19:20.230 --> 00:19:21.930 was the mistake on my end I should have made 00:19:21.930 --> 00:19:23.589 sure his first day and and he started and he 00:19:23.589 --> 00:19:25.150 like and he had like he couldn't make it one 00:19:25.150 --> 00:19:27.190 day like we can't so I think we both sort of 00:19:27.190 --> 00:19:29.289 non like just without speaking about it just 00:19:29.289 --> 00:19:31.430 sort of decided it wasn't going to be a fit and 00:19:31.430 --> 00:19:33.130 later on he was sorry about it but I think it 00:19:33.130 --> 00:19:34.029 was one of those things where I'm just sort of 00:19:34.029 --> 00:19:35.630 like I kept like hey you're doing this with me 00:19:35.630 --> 00:19:37.970 you're doing this with me um so that friendship 00:19:37.970 --> 00:19:41.009 maintained even after that Another friend who 00:19:41.009 --> 00:19:44.349 I hired to help me out with a residential, I 00:19:44.349 --> 00:19:46.170 had this weird thing where I'm like, my own business, 00:19:46.230 --> 00:19:48.369 I can hire people. I should just let them hire 00:19:48.369 --> 00:19:52.069 him. I was young, right? So he was hired under 00:19:52.069 --> 00:19:55.069 me and we were tag teaming these days because 00:19:55.069 --> 00:19:59.269 we had to work seven days a week. And I had emailed 00:19:59.269 --> 00:20:01.349 him some feedback I got from the organization. 00:20:02.369 --> 00:20:04.390 And it probably should have been a face -to -face 00:20:04.390 --> 00:20:06.210 conversation. Part of me thinks he was trying 00:20:06.210 --> 00:20:08.750 to leave anyways. And so he emails me back and 00:20:08.750 --> 00:20:11.150 he's like, he was mad at me for the feedback 00:20:11.150 --> 00:20:13.430 and he told me he was quitting and i was like 00:20:13.430 --> 00:20:15.410 so i tried to make a joke like i said something 00:20:15.410 --> 00:20:17.470 like they told me you were saucy like i was trying 00:20:17.470 --> 00:20:19.349 to give him an out like in case he was just mad 00:20:19.349 --> 00:20:22.190 he was like i'm not mad i'm just done so i was 00:20:22.190 --> 00:20:24.009 like all right you can just just give them your 00:20:24.009 --> 00:20:25.190 keys before you leave so i don't have to try 00:20:25.190 --> 00:20:28.049 to find you afterwards and and uh uh it was my 00:20:28.049 --> 00:20:30.569 birthday too i was so sad i was like out of town 00:20:30.569 --> 00:20:32.569 on my birthday the uh yeah i know you can feel 00:20:32.569 --> 00:20:35.670 bad for me too it's fine i don't he's cool we're 00:20:35.670 --> 00:20:37.890 cool to some extent we're not hanging out anymore 00:20:38.430 --> 00:20:39.369 You know what I mean? I don't think there was 00:20:39.369 --> 00:20:42.650 a way to survive that encounter. There wasn't 00:20:42.650 --> 00:20:44.829 any value to debriefing it either. So it's too 00:20:44.829 --> 00:20:47.569 bad. We've done some stuff since we've reached 00:20:47.569 --> 00:20:51.009 out, but there's not really an end to friendship 00:20:51.009 --> 00:20:56.849 with me. So hiring is hard. I have three incredible 00:20:56.849 --> 00:20:59.430 psychiatric nurse practitioners or four. I don't 00:20:59.430 --> 00:21:01.430 remember how. I have two full -time and one part 00:21:01.430 --> 00:21:03.940 -time and one very, very part -time. And, uh, 00:21:04.059 --> 00:21:05.880 all of them are, are wonderful and lovely. And 00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:07.720 they're my friends too. You know, I mean, I guess 00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:10.220 one I hired before I knew her, uh, but one was 00:21:10.220 --> 00:21:11.539 a student, one was a friend. The other one was 00:21:11.539 --> 00:21:13.819 a pre -student who was a friend. And so I'm not 00:21:13.819 --> 00:21:16.140 saying don't hire your friends, but I mean, you, 00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:18.759 it's really the ideal if you work with like hiring 00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:21.000 a student is a great idea because you see them 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:23.319 and you, you know, if they're up for it. Um, 00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:27.920 but it's, you know, yeah, when you hire the wrong 00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:30.019 person, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty painful. 00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:32.240 And it's, and it's, uh, And they're really difficult 00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:35.420 to manage. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate you sharing 00:21:35.420 --> 00:21:37.700 that because I think a lot of I know a lot of 00:21:37.700 --> 00:21:41.380 people can relate. And I know other psych NPs 00:21:41.380 --> 00:21:43.359 who have been like, yeah, I started with a friend. 00:21:43.759 --> 00:21:47.039 Didn't work out. I had two failed business partnerships. 00:21:47.140 --> 00:21:49.700 I think, you know, you don't know what you don't 00:21:49.700 --> 00:21:52.279 know going into it. But I do think it's helpful 00:21:52.279 --> 00:21:55.420 to kind of share the lessons learned so that 00:21:55.420 --> 00:21:58.680 other people can just hear. What were you going 00:21:58.680 --> 00:22:01.140 to say? I was like, my dad, he worked in tech. 00:22:01.220 --> 00:22:03.259 He worked at Silicon Valley. Actually, the movie 00:22:03.259 --> 00:22:05.700 Office Space is based off his company because 00:22:05.700 --> 00:22:07.319 Mike Judge worked for his company, which is kind 00:22:07.319 --> 00:22:08.640 of funny. He didn't realize that until later. 00:22:08.700 --> 00:22:10.380 He's like, they made a movie about me. But he 00:22:10.380 --> 00:22:12.279 worked at Parallax, which my dad was a co -founder 00:22:12.279 --> 00:22:14.539 of. And he told me that he started his company 00:22:14.539 --> 00:22:18.619 with two other people. And once it became very 00:22:18.619 --> 00:22:21.559 consequential, one person decided to make things, 00:22:21.660 --> 00:22:24.180 you know, just change his mind or take control 00:22:24.180 --> 00:22:26.970 or switch whatever gears. There's nothing you 00:22:26.970 --> 00:22:29.009 can do when you're that far into it. We're so 00:22:29.009 --> 00:22:32.990 debilitated by the co -ownership of the business. 00:22:33.529 --> 00:22:35.349 And so that was something that he sort of said, 00:22:35.450 --> 00:22:38.549 no one should be, you should not run it with 00:22:38.549 --> 00:22:40.710 anybody. No one should be a co -owner. You own 00:22:40.710 --> 00:22:43.930 the business. And I think anybody was like, I'd 00:22:43.930 --> 00:22:45.529 rather do my own thing. A student who I wanted 00:22:45.529 --> 00:22:46.809 to work with me or she talked about it, but if 00:22:46.809 --> 00:22:48.250 she wanted to do her own thing, I'm so glad she 00:22:48.250 --> 00:22:50.089 did. You know what I mean? So there's no like, 00:22:50.130 --> 00:22:53.130 go do your own thing or if you want to hang out 00:22:53.130 --> 00:22:54.329 with me, that's cool too. But yeah, there's no 00:22:54.329 --> 00:22:57.180 employees or. No partners. That was something 00:22:57.180 --> 00:22:59.460 that I felt like I did a good job at not doing. 00:22:59.559 --> 00:23:01.680 No offense. I thought your partners were lovely. 00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:07.140 Yeah. So are they W -2s? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. W 00:23:07.140 --> 00:23:09.779 -2s. Okay. Okay. I did a little bit of contracting, 00:23:09.980 --> 00:23:12.519 like independent contractor. I'm not – it feels 00:23:12.519 --> 00:23:14.980 cleaner to do a W -2. I know I've read multiple 00:23:14.980 --> 00:23:16.819 things. I think a couple of people who do contractors 00:23:16.819 --> 00:23:19.319 have a really good defense and argument as to 00:23:19.319 --> 00:23:21.819 why they're using contractors. It doesn't seem 00:23:21.819 --> 00:23:23.700 to be that much less work to hire contractors 00:23:23.700 --> 00:23:27.880 versus W -2s. If you see advantages to it and 00:23:27.880 --> 00:23:31.519 maybe they want the 1099 so they can put it in 00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:34.420 their Roth at 401k or they can do their write 00:23:34.420 --> 00:23:37.039 -offs, then maybe there's value to it. But I 00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:39.380 don't think it's that much more work to do a 00:23:39.380 --> 00:23:40.980 W -2, especially if you have a staff who can 00:23:40.980 --> 00:23:45.920 be hired to do it. Yeah. Yeah. That's good points. 00:23:45.940 --> 00:23:49.740 Good points. I was just thinking, I got some 00:23:49.740 --> 00:23:52.480 feedback from some of my past episodes being 00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:55.880 like... from new grads who are starting private 00:23:55.880 --> 00:23:58.519 practices and being like, oh, it brought out 00:23:58.519 --> 00:24:00.819 some insecurities because this episode or that 00:24:00.819 --> 00:24:02.900 episode kind of sounded like maybe a little negative 00:24:02.900 --> 00:24:06.400 about it. And I like to basically get the perspective 00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:08.700 of whoever I'm interviewing. And so I'd love 00:24:08.700 --> 00:24:10.720 to hear from you, your perspective on psych NP 00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:13.440 new grads going into private practice since you 00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:17.960 did it. And people want to know and people are 00:24:17.960 --> 00:24:20.319 doing it and they want to know, you know, am 00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:23.670 I going to be okay? Yeah. yeah it's it's a lot 00:24:23.670 --> 00:24:28.349 of fun um and it's very interesting and and you 00:24:28.349 --> 00:24:30.230 know there's a lot of freedom you have as a private 00:24:30.230 --> 00:24:32.069 practice if you like to kind of play with things 00:24:32.069 --> 00:24:34.470 play with ideas and grow or if you want to just 00:24:34.470 --> 00:24:37.049 be really quiet and small sometimes i cover it 00:24:37.049 --> 00:24:38.589 those days like i remember the day where it's 00:24:38.589 --> 00:24:40.289 just you know like that's so much flexibility 00:24:40.289 --> 00:24:42.170 not that you know what's going on now it's not 00:24:42.170 --> 00:24:44.509 wonderful so it's it's nothing's gonna there's 00:24:44.509 --> 00:24:45.910 no like roller coaster effect there's no like 00:24:45.910 --> 00:24:48.049 come on there's no turning back There's a lot 00:24:48.049 --> 00:24:49.869 of turning back. You can turn back at any point, 00:24:49.910 --> 00:24:51.910 right? Nothing happens overnight. Everything's 00:24:51.910 --> 00:24:54.309 slow. I remember I went on this three week long 00:24:54.309 --> 00:24:56.089 trip right when I graduated and I created this 00:24:56.089 --> 00:24:57.309 business. I was like, we're going to have to 00:24:57.309 --> 00:24:59.269 find places for me to stop and see clients because 00:24:59.269 --> 00:25:00.410 I was going to see clients for a little time. 00:25:00.470 --> 00:25:01.970 I think I had one appointment. You know what 00:25:01.970 --> 00:25:03.490 I mean? I was way too big for my britches. I 00:25:03.490 --> 00:25:04.369 thought that was going to, you know what I mean? 00:25:04.390 --> 00:25:08.190 It took a really long time to, you know, and 00:25:08.190 --> 00:25:10.369 if you were like, I'm a marketing guru, I know 00:25:10.369 --> 00:25:11.509 how to get people in the door, then you'll get 00:25:11.509 --> 00:25:13.509 people in the door. But if you're just playing 00:25:13.509 --> 00:25:16.859 with it, like. The consequences are tremendously 00:25:16.859 --> 00:25:19.759 low in a big sense. You start the LLC, you do 00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:22.880 a telehealth thing, you do the headway, whatever, 00:25:23.079 --> 00:25:25.559 and you just see what happens and see what you 00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:30.480 like and you don't like. I think it's no biggie. 00:25:31.039 --> 00:25:34.920 If you're a new grad and so you're trying to 00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:37.000 know what you don't know, if you're sort of weak 00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:39.680 on pharmacology, you probably want to be in an 00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:42.970 environment where you can get... you know, a 00:25:42.970 --> 00:25:45.730 lot of mentorship or have someone you can talk 00:25:45.730 --> 00:25:47.490 to. I have a lot of students who I think this 00:25:47.490 --> 00:25:49.930 guy could, if this person worked with me, I would 00:25:49.930 --> 00:25:52.130 probably never have to counsel them on medications. 00:25:52.250 --> 00:25:54.150 Or this person, I'd probably have to teach them 00:25:54.150 --> 00:25:55.690 the medications while they're practicing. So 00:25:55.690 --> 00:25:58.549 if you're weak on pharmacology, you probably 00:25:58.549 --> 00:26:00.329 want to work in an environment with more support. 00:26:00.450 --> 00:26:02.910 If you are strong on pharmacology, not that you're 00:26:02.910 --> 00:26:05.309 going to need to, you know, fast track your learning 00:26:05.309 --> 00:26:08.029 a little bit, but, you know, if you're up for 00:26:08.029 --> 00:26:09.630 it, give it a shot. I mean, it's so easy to do 00:26:09.630 --> 00:26:12.470 alongside something. sunday afternoon or you 00:26:12.470 --> 00:26:15.130 know you have a day off or after work or you 00:26:15.130 --> 00:26:17.390 work part -time it's it's it's i think i think 00:26:17.390 --> 00:26:19.730 just go if you kind of want to do it it's start 00:26:19.730 --> 00:26:22.410 start doing things like look at the llc you know 00:26:22.410 --> 00:26:25.690 play with some ehrs and and it's it's super easy 00:26:25.690 --> 00:26:27.609 to do it and if you find yourself not minding 00:26:27.609 --> 00:26:30.009 that sort of busyness and exploring that it's 00:26:30.009 --> 00:26:31.589 probably for you if you find that stuff super 00:26:31.589 --> 00:26:33.710 tedious and struggle to have the time for it 00:26:33.710 --> 00:26:36.130 it may not you know you may want to do something 00:26:36.130 --> 00:26:37.529 that's easier it's easier for you to spend your 00:26:37.529 --> 00:26:39.109 time with it's really hard to do something that 00:26:39.109 --> 00:26:42.000 you don't sort of subconsciously want to do or 00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:43.599 willing to do. It's really hard to do those things. 00:26:44.180 --> 00:26:46.099 And sometimes I want to like, oh, I'm going to 00:26:46.099 --> 00:26:47.740 do this or I'm going to do that. And then I try 00:26:47.740 --> 00:26:50.119 it and it sucks and I don't like doing it. And 00:26:50.119 --> 00:26:52.720 I have to sort of accept it. Like there's something 00:26:52.720 --> 00:26:55.279 that I have cannot control that tells me what 00:26:55.279 --> 00:26:58.720 I can or cannot spend time doing. And I get that. 00:26:59.259 --> 00:27:01.220 That's worth listening to. Yeah, it's worth listening 00:27:01.220 --> 00:27:04.380 to. That's how I felt about creating the psychiatric 00:27:04.380 --> 00:27:06.440 interview course with Carlat that I have not 00:27:06.440 --> 00:27:08.980 yet to create. And I'm like kind of at that point 00:27:08.980 --> 00:27:11.420 where I'm like, it's OK if I'm not like the course 00:27:11.420 --> 00:27:13.740 creator. It's OK. You know what I mean? And I 00:27:13.740 --> 00:27:15.779 think it's honestly like the pressure of it, 00:27:15.799 --> 00:27:18.140 too. I think if I was just making a video out 00:27:18.140 --> 00:27:20.720 there on my social media, like I could do it. 00:27:20.759 --> 00:27:22.579 But there's something about sometimes when you 00:27:22.579 --> 00:27:25.740 feel pressured and under, you know what I'm saying? 00:27:25.799 --> 00:27:28.150 It can kind of shut down your creativity. A hundred 00:27:28.150 --> 00:27:29.650 percent. Yeah. Where you're just like, I actually 00:27:29.650 --> 00:27:31.569 don't know if I'm that interested in this topic. 00:27:31.670 --> 00:27:33.950 So it's going to be super hard for me to milk, 00:27:34.049 --> 00:27:37.829 you know, content or spend time on it. It's really 00:27:37.829 --> 00:27:39.849 nice to sort of exploit and leverage your own 00:27:39.849 --> 00:27:41.869 passions and your own interests so much easier 00:27:41.869 --> 00:27:45.029 to do work. Yeah, exactly. I was going to ask 00:27:45.029 --> 00:27:47.849 you, did you work with Headway or do you still? 00:27:48.329 --> 00:27:50.650 No, they weren't around when I got started. So 00:27:50.650 --> 00:27:53.710 at certain points in time where I'm like, maybe 00:27:53.710 --> 00:27:56.369 I would have or you should. Now I think there's. 00:27:56.589 --> 00:27:58.309 I think there's enough content, there's enough 00:27:58.309 --> 00:28:01.950 stuff on like Facebook sites that you could read 00:28:01.950 --> 00:28:04.609 for days and get a million people's opinions 00:28:04.609 --> 00:28:06.589 and people on there that will message you back. 00:28:07.210 --> 00:28:10.150 And it seems like there's, I think the biggest 00:28:10.150 --> 00:28:11.910 downside is there's ultimately a limiting effect. 00:28:12.430 --> 00:28:14.230 Miguel says he does it with his four clinics, 00:28:14.289 --> 00:28:15.690 which I'm not sure how, which I think is great. 00:28:15.750 --> 00:28:17.690 So obviously there's some, he's figured out a 00:28:17.690 --> 00:28:19.690 way to scale with it. Right? Didn't he say that? 00:28:19.750 --> 00:28:23.890 Maybe not. But I think there's a limiting factor. 00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:28.019 But there's so many pros to it too. So I have 00:28:28.019 --> 00:28:30.519 a friend of mine started with headway. She did 00:28:30.519 --> 00:28:32.640 a little bit and she's working with me and, and 00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:34.140 she's like, I just, I don't know why I'm doing 00:28:34.140 --> 00:28:35.880 an extra day. I'm just going to move all those 00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:38.640 clients to you. And, and that, so, you know, 00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:41.299 it's pros and cons for sure. And I think that's 00:28:41.299 --> 00:28:45.180 easy to sort of to get information on. I never 00:28:45.180 --> 00:28:47.759 used them though. Yeah, I almost did. Did you 00:28:47.759 --> 00:28:50.240 use them? You almost did? I almost did. And then, 00:28:50.319 --> 00:28:54.160 was it Headway or Alma at the time? It was whatever. 00:28:54.259 --> 00:28:55.539 Do you remember that guy who used to be all over 00:28:55.539 --> 00:28:58.940 the forums, Jonathan Wayne? That sounds super 00:28:58.940 --> 00:29:01.920 cool. Yeah, that sounds original. Yeah. He had 00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:03.980 like scaled this group practice. And so I was 00:29:03.980 --> 00:29:07.880 like, whoa. This is crazy cool. And so then I 00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:10.299 met with whatever company he had used on their 00:29:10.299 --> 00:29:12.079 headway. But then they're like, oh, we're not 00:29:12.079 --> 00:29:13.940 really supporting group practices like that. 00:29:14.019 --> 00:29:16.960 Like a lot was messed up on the back. Not for 00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:19.000 him specifically, but like just in general with 00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:21.180 them trying to support. I don't know. So that's 00:29:21.180 --> 00:29:22.720 what I was told. But I've had plenty of other 00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:24.799 people who have figured out a way to make it 00:29:24.799 --> 00:29:30.619 work or whatever. So. Plus, I just am like direct 00:29:30.619 --> 00:29:32.839 to consumer right now. But anyway. OK. Yeah. 00:29:32.980 --> 00:29:35.259 Tell me about. I'm trying to keep these episodes 00:29:35.259 --> 00:29:36.619 shorter because that's feedback I've gotten, 00:29:36.660 --> 00:29:40.579 too. So how you got into creating courses for 00:29:40.579 --> 00:29:45.460 Justin, the elite NP, and, you know, like other 00:29:45.460 --> 00:29:48.519 streams of income. Like, tell us about that because 00:29:48.519 --> 00:29:50.539 I'm sure people are intrigued with that. I was. 00:29:50.539 --> 00:29:54.160 I was like, oh, cool. He's Justin's psych course 00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:57.559 creator. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny because I like 00:29:57.559 --> 00:29:59.960 I really hadn't spoken to him for while I was 00:29:59.960 --> 00:30:02.059 doing all that. Just emails for years. And then 00:30:02.059 --> 00:30:04.390 I saw him at a conference finally. And then it 00:30:04.390 --> 00:30:06.549 was a year later and I got to eat with them, 00:30:06.589 --> 00:30:08.309 which was super fun. So it was so funny. I had 00:30:08.309 --> 00:30:09.869 like, it was such an important relationship for 00:30:09.869 --> 00:30:13.589 me, at least. It was like total 20 emails for 00:30:13.589 --> 00:30:17.369 over three years. But so yeah, so I would, at 00:30:17.369 --> 00:30:18.789 LeadNP, I think I'd done a couple of conferences. 00:30:18.869 --> 00:30:20.329 At the time I was super interested in hormones. 00:30:20.430 --> 00:30:22.369 I'd done WorldLink, which is not them. But I 00:30:22.369 --> 00:30:23.490 was like, well, I'll do theirs too. So I did 00:30:23.490 --> 00:30:25.089 their testosterone, I did their women's health. 00:30:25.250 --> 00:30:27.170 And then I was like, did their ketamine, because 00:30:27.170 --> 00:30:28.450 I was sort of interested in ketamine at the time. 00:30:28.490 --> 00:30:30.029 Or maybe I was doing it. I don't remember, but 00:30:30.029 --> 00:30:32.470 I was like, I need to learn more. And I was doing 00:30:32.470 --> 00:30:34.250 Spravato and I was like, I needed normal academies 00:30:34.250 --> 00:30:36.789 to do the course. And I thought their courses 00:30:36.789 --> 00:30:38.869 were great. And I saw on their website, they're 00:30:38.869 --> 00:30:41.009 like coming soon. Psychiatric nurse practitioner 00:30:41.009 --> 00:30:42.490 practice. This is on the website. This is why 00:30:42.490 --> 00:30:43.890 I have my hand up. If you look at the website, 00:30:44.009 --> 00:30:46.869 the psychiatric nurse practitioner business course. 00:30:46.930 --> 00:30:48.309 So I emailed, I just emailed them like, Hey, 00:30:48.450 --> 00:30:51.650 love your stuff. Hey, I have a private practice. 00:30:51.710 --> 00:30:53.650 It was super. I mean, I was only done it for 00:30:53.650 --> 00:30:55.690 a couple of years at that point, but I was like, 00:30:55.730 --> 00:30:58.750 I would be happy to peer review it for free. 00:30:59.069 --> 00:31:01.849 That's what I said. And so he emails me back. 00:31:01.849 --> 00:31:03.630 He's like, well, the person who's doing it, I 00:31:03.630 --> 00:31:05.569 haven't heard from them in a while. So I don't 00:31:05.569 --> 00:31:06.769 know what's going on there. And that was kind 00:31:06.769 --> 00:31:08.769 of the entire email. Like there was no like invitation 00:31:08.769 --> 00:31:10.910 or anything. It was just it was just I mean, 00:31:10.930 --> 00:31:12.730 it was nice. I responded. So like, well, cool. 00:31:12.910 --> 00:31:14.109 Keep me in mind. I don't know. I don't know what 00:31:14.109 --> 00:31:15.369 I said. So then he comes back to me and says, 00:31:15.430 --> 00:31:18.269 what do you think of a course where, you know, 00:31:18.289 --> 00:31:20.589 a lot of the family nurse practitioners are talking 00:31:20.589 --> 00:31:21.890 about wanting to know more about psychiatric 00:31:21.890 --> 00:31:24.450 content? What about a psychiatric course that's 00:31:24.450 --> 00:31:28.559 really, you know, designated to. um, FNPs or 00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:30.839 non -psychiatric, you know, and, and as much 00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:32.940 as it creates debate on forums, get out of here. 00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:35.099 Like the FNPs are doing tons of psych as they 00:31:35.099 --> 00:31:37.099 should be. Like they're doing depression, anxiety, 00:31:37.400 --> 00:31:40.240 ADHD, like, like scope of practice, just, just 00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:42.000 get out of here. Like it's crazy. It's, it's, 00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:43.900 those conversations just drive me crazy. And 00:31:43.900 --> 00:31:45.400 I am seeing for the most part of them getting 00:31:45.400 --> 00:31:47.859 shut down on the forums now. Like, no, get out 00:31:47.859 --> 00:31:49.799 of here. Like, like we're not in control of anyone's 00:31:49.799 --> 00:31:51.700 scope of practice. We need the FNPs to be doing 00:31:51.700 --> 00:31:55.700 psychiatric stuff. So, um, So I, so like, yeah, 00:31:55.759 --> 00:31:57.720 so I gave him, so I, instead of responding, yeah, 00:31:57.819 --> 00:31:59.099 I think you're right. I just gave him a course 00:31:59.099 --> 00:32:00.839 outline or I think it was a good move. Cause 00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:03.099 he was like, oh, cool. Can you do it? And I was 00:32:03.099 --> 00:32:05.640 like, yeah. So, so he was, that was the handing 00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:07.279 of the, that was the recruitment, right? It was 00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:09.019 just me reaching out. So that speaks so much 00:32:09.019 --> 00:32:11.059 to like reach out to people you're interested 00:32:11.059 --> 00:32:13.789 in working with. I think I had asked you cause 00:32:13.789 --> 00:32:15.809 that's classic me, right. Just to be like reaching 00:32:15.809 --> 00:32:18.109 out to you and being like nosy, but like about 00:32:18.109 --> 00:32:20.690 how you got into it. And I think you told me 00:32:20.690 --> 00:32:22.990 that. And so I think I remember I reached out 00:32:22.990 --> 00:32:26.589 to Justin about a course on DBT cause, and he's 00:32:26.589 --> 00:32:27.950 like, I don't think there'd be enough interest, 00:32:28.009 --> 00:32:30.769 which totally understandable, but it's just like, 00:32:30.789 --> 00:32:35.470 it's just funny. This year I'm speaking at a 00:32:35.470 --> 00:32:40.029 conference in person on DBT. Yeah, doing like 00:32:40.029 --> 00:32:41.809 a webinar on it and stuff because it's like one 00:32:41.809 --> 00:32:44.789 of my, you know, passion things that I like to 00:32:44.789 --> 00:32:47.730 talk about. So I was creating the course and 00:32:47.730 --> 00:32:48.769 I was like, what's your deadline? What do you 00:32:48.769 --> 00:32:49.789 want me to do? He's like, don't worry about it, 00:32:49.829 --> 00:32:51.769 man. Just, you know, whatever you're done. So 00:32:51.769 --> 00:32:53.150 it was really hard to work on it because I didn't 00:32:53.150 --> 00:32:54.789 have any deadlines. So I was trying to get him 00:32:54.789 --> 00:32:56.730 like a PowerPoint a month and I'd send him the 00:32:56.730 --> 00:32:58.829 PowerPoint. He'd be like, this is great. You 00:32:58.829 --> 00:33:00.829 know, he didn't really give me specific feedback, 00:33:00.910 --> 00:33:03.160 but. you know, when he didn't like something, 00:33:03.319 --> 00:33:05.099 he, he, he, the response would be different. 00:33:05.220 --> 00:33:06.759 You know, like the slides are a little, you know, 00:33:06.779 --> 00:33:07.799 he'd tell you something. You're like, I don't 00:33:07.799 --> 00:33:09.400 think he'd like that one, but he mostly, he was 00:33:09.400 --> 00:33:10.359 just saying, this is great. Keep him coming. 00:33:10.500 --> 00:33:12.319 And then at some point he's like, Hey, the business 00:33:12.319 --> 00:33:15.359 course fell through or the person's, you know, 00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:17.180 a wall or whatever. Do you want to do that? And 00:33:17.180 --> 00:33:18.940 then, so I started doing the business course, 00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:20.720 which at the time, you know, the original business 00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:22.460 course, which is not on anymore. It's now updated. 00:33:22.940 --> 00:33:25.279 It's like, it's like 50, 50 us. He does the first 00:33:25.279 --> 00:33:27.400 part. I do the second part. Maybe it's 60, 40 00:33:27.400 --> 00:33:30.900 him and me. And so, and then they're going to 00:33:30.900 --> 00:33:33.960 bundle them, which I think that the business 00:33:33.960 --> 00:33:36.400 bundling them, the psychiatric course for the 00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:38.799 NP was my baby. Like that is all me. You know 00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:40.920 what I mean? Like that was, I love that course. 00:33:41.059 --> 00:33:43.240 It's still there. It's updated. It has a credible 00:33:43.240 --> 00:33:45.059 section on ADHD now. People should check it out. 00:33:45.099 --> 00:33:47.059 If you've bought it, they just updated it. So 00:33:47.059 --> 00:33:49.279 go check out the ADHD stuff. Check out the Suboxone. 00:33:49.400 --> 00:33:51.539 I have like injectables on there. So I just updated 00:33:51.539 --> 00:33:54.240 the crap out of it. And it's really great. And 00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:56.990 so, but because they bundled it. And they did 00:33:56.990 --> 00:33:58.170 a business course. The business course, I think, 00:33:58.190 --> 00:34:00.470 did really well. And at the time, the way they 00:34:00.470 --> 00:34:02.289 had it set up, I could see how they were doing. 00:34:02.769 --> 00:34:04.529 And the bundle, my little buddies come and join 00:34:04.529 --> 00:34:10.230 us. The bundle was, the bundles did okay. And 00:34:10.230 --> 00:34:12.230 then the clinical course sort of undersold, I 00:34:12.230 --> 00:34:14.050 think. And he kind of told me that later because 00:34:14.050 --> 00:34:15.630 then he sort of, I was going to do an advanced 00:34:15.630 --> 00:34:17.610 course and he sort of vetoed it. I was going 00:34:17.610 --> 00:34:19.349 to try to do a spermato course. He kind of vetoed 00:34:19.349 --> 00:34:21.809 it. And then I did the functional course at that 00:34:21.809 --> 00:34:24.900 point. Um, I was super happy with it. I had, 00:34:24.900 --> 00:34:27.480 you know, they were paying me residuals at the 00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:29.699 time or residuals or a percentage. And, and, 00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:35.340 and it was, uh, what are you guys watching? Yeah. 00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:42.239 Yeah. I'll never know. Yeah. The, uh, uh, four, 00:34:42.380 --> 00:34:45.179 my four year old buddy. Uh, we got long hair. 00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:53.610 Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, going crazy. so the um yeah 00:34:53.610 --> 00:34:55.190 so that's how i created the first course and 00:34:55.190 --> 00:34:56.829 they got published and there was always this 00:34:56.829 --> 00:34:59.550 invitation to do more and so you know time would 00:34:59.550 --> 00:35:01.289 go by and i'd you know ask him about another 00:35:01.289 --> 00:35:04.010 one and um and eventually i did the functional 00:35:04.010 --> 00:35:05.210 course because they're trying to do functional 00:35:05.210 --> 00:35:07.789 content so that's out there um we're talking 00:35:07.789 --> 00:35:09.809 about lithium and i don't know what else is functional 00:35:09.809 --> 00:35:13.659 ashwagandha yeah and uh And then and then they 00:35:13.659 --> 00:35:15.360 have some new leadership and they approve the 00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:17.460 advanced psychiatric course, which I had created 00:35:17.460 --> 00:35:19.619 years ago. And you even told me you were going 00:35:19.619 --> 00:35:21.579 to help me do it. Remember that one time where 00:35:21.579 --> 00:35:25.559 we'd met with a person from from Ohio or or I 00:35:25.559 --> 00:35:28.159 don't remember where she was. You know, she was 00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:31.519 going to credential it. The contact hours. Yeah. 00:35:31.579 --> 00:35:36.519 Yeah. I was like doing the psych NP. That was 00:35:36.519 --> 00:35:37.960 when I was doing the psych NP network with my 00:35:37.960 --> 00:35:40.989 business partner. yeah yeah yeah and so i was 00:35:40.989 --> 00:35:44.210 like hey elite np has not going to produce these 00:35:44.210 --> 00:35:46.050 courses and not like kind of like your experience 00:35:46.050 --> 00:35:48.829 was nothing it was just hey we don't think these 00:35:48.829 --> 00:35:49.969 courses are going to do well with our audience 00:35:49.969 --> 00:35:51.969 or whatever or at the time where we're not but 00:35:51.969 --> 00:35:53.670 he told me we're focusing on functional in business 00:35:53.670 --> 00:35:55.210 so that's why he switched me to functional which 00:35:55.210 --> 00:35:57.090 was awesome so i had these courses i had made 00:35:57.090 --> 00:35:59.170 the advanced psych course and this bravado course 00:35:59.170 --> 00:36:01.429 and i was and we had talked because we found 00:36:01.429 --> 00:36:03.429 each other on tiktok again after initially seeing 00:36:03.429 --> 00:36:06.190 each other and And yeah, you were gung -ho. I 00:36:06.190 --> 00:36:08.809 think it might have, you know, I think the agreement 00:36:08.809 --> 00:36:10.210 or something, you were working on something with 00:36:10.210 --> 00:36:12.170 somebody else. And she was like, hey, can we, 00:36:12.170 --> 00:36:14.050 you know, let's prioritize something that we're 00:36:14.050 --> 00:36:16.989 already prioritizing. It seemed super fair. But 00:36:16.989 --> 00:36:21.190 then years later, now they're, you know, as things 00:36:21.190 --> 00:36:23.110 shift, they were super, the new leadership was 00:36:23.110 --> 00:36:25.230 like, yeah, we just want to create content. You 00:36:25.230 --> 00:36:28.010 know, business, clinical stuff is great. And 00:36:28.010 --> 00:36:29.949 so, you know, they just released an advanced 00:36:29.949 --> 00:36:34.139 psych NP course this year. which, which the advertising 00:36:34.139 --> 00:36:36.340 is funny. The advertisement is like, you know, 00:36:36.340 --> 00:36:37.960 I have like a clausural section. I like a long 00:36:37.960 --> 00:36:39.960 acting injectable. I have like a lithium section. 00:36:40.579 --> 00:36:42.699 So it says for the nurse practitioner, clausural 00:36:42.699 --> 00:36:45.079 lithium. So on some of the Facebook pages, like 00:36:45.079 --> 00:36:48.019 they're trying to teach FNPs how to do clausural, 00:36:48.159 --> 00:36:51.400 you know, like the course, the course is like, 00:36:51.420 --> 00:36:53.679 like it's, it's really like, you know, it's, 00:36:53.679 --> 00:36:55.840 it's, I think clearly for a psychiatric nurse 00:36:55.840 --> 00:36:57.719 practitioner, but like, you know, go to the NEI 00:36:57.719 --> 00:36:59.260 conference and it's like, who's this course for? 00:36:59.900 --> 00:37:01.920 psychiatrists, nurse practitioners, family nurse 00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:04.059 practitioners, therapists. You're allowed to 00:37:04.059 --> 00:37:08.760 learn more. You're allowed to... You have to 00:37:08.760 --> 00:37:12.820 manage things like constipation and the blood 00:37:12.820 --> 00:37:15.599 lab draws. To have collaboration with a knowledgeable 00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:18.699 primary care is going to be gold. If they wanted 00:37:18.699 --> 00:37:23.280 to take it, get powers for it. Actually, I just 00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:26.969 saw an advertisement on today. I asked... them 00:37:26.969 --> 00:37:28.570 and said when does the elite when does the spravato 00:37:28.570 --> 00:37:29.849 course hit a drop and like it might have already 00:37:29.849 --> 00:37:32.510 dropped it's kind of a cage email but i saw advertisement 00:37:32.510 --> 00:37:34.269 on so they'll probably announce it soon so the 00:37:34.269 --> 00:37:36.329 spravato course is out there anybody wants to 00:37:36.329 --> 00:37:39.050 learn how to do spravato it's cheaper Then the 00:37:39.050 --> 00:37:42.329 Duprat version, no ill will to Duprat. But the 00:37:42.329 --> 00:37:43.949 thing is, the Duprat version came out and I was 00:37:43.949 --> 00:37:45.210 like, I've been trying to get this course out 00:37:45.210 --> 00:37:46.730 for years. Like it would have been the first 00:37:46.730 --> 00:37:49.789 one out if the Duprat, I don't know, you know, 00:37:49.809 --> 00:37:51.809 Jason Duprat, who does the Ivy Ketamine Academy 00:37:51.809 --> 00:37:54.650 or whatever. And so he dropped his bravado course 00:37:54.650 --> 00:37:56.550 last year, which I think is pretty expensive, 00:37:56.610 --> 00:37:59.250 but it might be. Maybe it's worth paying for. 00:37:59.289 --> 00:38:01.369 Maybe they offer more hands -on stuff. This one's 00:38:01.369 --> 00:38:03.809 really just a, you know, here's everything I 00:38:03.809 --> 00:38:05.030 know about it. Of course, I've been doing it 00:38:05.030 --> 00:38:07.070 for six years, but I'll email people back for 00:38:07.070 --> 00:38:09.320 sure if you want help with it. That just dropped. 00:38:09.380 --> 00:38:10.719 So I'm excited about this bravado course. I'm 00:38:10.719 --> 00:38:12.800 interested to see what the, if it's, if it catches 00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:14.599 on, if it seems like people are interested in 00:38:14.599 --> 00:38:17.219 bravado, but it may be sort of, it may be kind 00:38:17.219 --> 00:38:18.980 of a minority because it's kind of a unique thing. 00:38:19.059 --> 00:38:21.559 So yeah. Yeah. If it's useful to people, that's 00:38:21.559 --> 00:38:27.139 really cool. Okay. So, so you've made a good 00:38:27.139 --> 00:38:29.280 amount of money selling these courses. It sounds 00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:31.760 like, well, I mean, I couldn't give these courses 00:38:31.760 --> 00:38:33.119 away. You know what I'm saying? I'm sure, you 00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:35.079 know, how hard it is to, that you're just doing 00:38:35.079 --> 00:38:36.760 so awesome. It's so rad, but just get people 00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:38.929 to buy your stuff. is, you know what I mean? 00:38:38.989 --> 00:38:41.150 Or, or even to self -produce it is incredible. 00:38:41.289 --> 00:38:45.309 Right. So, um, so I feel super lucky to, to have 00:38:45.309 --> 00:38:47.329 motivation to do something, have an audience 00:38:47.329 --> 00:38:49.889 that said, and, and I couldn't, like I said, 00:38:49.949 --> 00:38:51.929 I couldn't give this course away. So yeah, I've, 00:38:51.929 --> 00:38:54.429 um, you know, the payment structure has changed 00:38:54.429 --> 00:38:57.630 and, uh, and I just feel super lucky that I'm 00:38:57.630 --> 00:38:59.550 making it. And yet I think you do private practice 00:38:59.550 --> 00:39:01.530 long enough. Sometimes your idea of money shifts 00:39:01.530 --> 00:39:03.449 a little bit. What, you know, what was a lot 00:39:03.449 --> 00:39:05.090 of money back then sometimes doesn't feel like 00:39:05.090 --> 00:39:07.000 a lot of money, but. You know, it's definitely 00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:08.659 worth doing. And I think it's super awesome. 00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:11.900 Yeah. And it's, and you've like spoken at the 00:39:11.900 --> 00:39:13.559 conference and things like it's led to other 00:39:13.559 --> 00:39:15.420 like networking opportunities. It seems like 00:39:15.420 --> 00:39:17.079 I'm sure people are going to want to take your 00:39:17.079 --> 00:39:19.760 courses. Where can they find them? Can we put 00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:22.679 them in the, in the, in the show notes for them? 00:39:22.760 --> 00:39:24.079 Yeah. Yeah. Put them on the link. Yeah. Yeah. 00:39:24.139 --> 00:39:26.420 They're, they're on the only NP site, but you 00:39:26.420 --> 00:39:28.500 know, it's not, maybe someday they'll put a little 00:39:28.500 --> 00:39:31.219 psychiatric bundle section, but people can get 00:39:31.219 --> 00:39:33.059 all of mine, but yeah, I'll give you the links 00:39:33.059 --> 00:39:34.380 and you can put them on there so people can find 00:39:34.380 --> 00:39:38.099 them. OK, awesome. I have one more question for 00:39:38.099 --> 00:39:40.579 you. You guys, I'm going to have Nick on again. 00:39:40.639 --> 00:39:44.059 So if you have specific questions, please comment 00:39:44.059 --> 00:39:46.579 them. And I can ask Nick at our next appointment, 00:39:46.699 --> 00:39:49.360 at our next appointment, at our next podcast 00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:53.699 recording. Two weeks. Yeah. I ask all my my people 00:39:53.699 --> 00:39:55.920 that I interview, except for Daniel Carlat, because 00:39:55.920 --> 00:40:00.079 I got nervous. But what does no prior off mean 00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:05.769 to you? I didn't get to that question. I don't 00:40:05.769 --> 00:40:09.570 know. That would have prepped something. I mean, 00:40:09.570 --> 00:40:11.349 I think there's a literal minor like, yeah, like 00:40:11.349 --> 00:40:14.050 don't have to do briars for medication. So maybe 00:40:14.050 --> 00:40:15.750 there's something more into it. Like what are 00:40:15.750 --> 00:40:18.170 the, you know, prior authorizations, a barrier, 00:40:18.369 --> 00:40:20.530 right? So it prevents you from accessing it. 00:40:20.570 --> 00:40:22.369 I just had to deal with four prior odds yesterday. 00:40:22.489 --> 00:40:23.929 Don't be crazy. Two of them had to walk away 00:40:23.929 --> 00:40:26.630 from. And, and I think, and they're not even 00:40:26.630 --> 00:40:28.469 like, they're not even, they're just like, I 00:40:28.469 --> 00:40:29.869 think they're sincere and I think they're really 00:40:29.869 --> 00:40:32.510 going to help the person. And so to be able to 00:40:32.510 --> 00:40:35.199 have like, to be able to do, what you think is 00:40:35.199 --> 00:40:37.420 best without any sort of roadblocks in the way 00:40:37.420 --> 00:40:42.780 is a gift for sure. And a lot of that could come 00:40:42.780 --> 00:40:45.659 from help, come from knowledge, you know, knowing 00:40:45.659 --> 00:40:47.639 how to do things well, trying it out, failing. 00:40:47.880 --> 00:40:51.059 So I think there's, you know, no prior auth is 00:40:51.059 --> 00:40:52.940 an exciting thing. You see no prior auth is like, 00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:55.000 oh, sweet, there's 30 minutes of my day, I get 00:40:55.000 --> 00:40:57.599 back. So I think it's exciting literal meaning, 00:40:57.659 --> 00:40:59.340 but I like the idea that maybe it could mean 00:40:59.340 --> 00:41:00.739 something a little bit more for people, especially 00:41:00.739 --> 00:41:03.679 just getting started. Yeah, I love that. Cool. 00:41:03.780 --> 00:41:06.639 Well, thanks, Nick. And we will see you next 00:41:06.639 --> 00:41:08.760 time. Yeah, let me know.