I was a neonatal nurse practitioner for many
years and had spent most of my life being the
perfectionist, being the people pleaser, getting
the straight A's, getting the degrees, more papers,
more proof of my validity. Around about in my
mid forties, I just had this perfect storm come
up in my life. I had my first panic attack and
then I watched the movie Frozen. And I watched
the story of this pale blonde chick who had to
conceal don't feel. And I was like, oh my gosh,
I'm Elsa. The important thing is the story isn't
about the trauma. The story is about the recovery
and the fact that there is hope and you can get
better. About four years ago, I really sat down
and wrote down my framework and everything I
do. And so over the six months, they learned
my method for treating trauma wounds. The thing
I really, you know, stress with everybody is
we have to understand there's two wounds. So
trauma wounds are the bad things that happen
to us. Attachment wounds are the good things
that didn't happen that should have. I think
it's embarrassing for psych MPs to say they want
to do therapy. Therapists don't learn that in
school. The modalities I use are not taught in
school. They get general training just like we
do. Welcome to another episode of No Cryer Off.
Today we have a very special guest, Tracy Powell.
Tracy is one of those people whose personal healing
journey completely changed the trajectory of
her life and ultimately an entire corner of the
psych NP profession. Before any of this, she
spent nearly 30 years in nursing, most of it
in the NICU, caring for some of the most fragile
patients imaginable. But behind the scenes, she
was carrying unresolved childhood trauma that
she had spent decades pushing down while being
the strong one for everyone else. And eventually,
at 46 years old, it caught up to her. What's
fascinating is that when she entered the mental
health system as a patient, the conventional
approach didn't really help her. Weekly therapy,
SSRIs, symptom management. It wasn't until she
found deeper subconscious focused trauma work,
things like attachment repair, inner child work.
ego state therapy, EMDR, somatic therapies, that
things truly began to shift. And that experience
didn't just heal her personally. It completely
transformed the way she practices as a psych
NP. Today, Tracy runs a radically different kind
of practice model. She does multi -day trauma
intensive, three full days focused entirely on
helping clients get to the root of their trauma
in a deeply immersive way. And she also runs
an incredible community, which she founded. PMHMP's
Beyond Meds community she created Beyond the
Script Society launched a 20 -week trauma -informed
fellowship for psych NPs and is now hosting what
may be the very first national psych NP conference
centered primarily around therapy and trauma
treatment rather than medications alone. This
conversation goes far beyond business or clinical
techniques. At its core, it's really about what
happens when a provider realizes the very system
They eventually joined as a clinician, failed
them as a patient, and decides to help build
something different. So welcome, Tracy. Thank
you. It was quite the intro. Thanks for taking
the time to be on. We appreciate it. We appreciate
it. I don't even know where to start with you
because you just are so multifaceted. You know
what I mean? It's really cool. Yeah, it's really
cool. Tell us a little bit about kind of what
got you into this. career? I know I touched on
it, but like, yeah, just tell us a little bit
about what. As a psych MP? Yeah. Well, you did
touch on it. I was a neonatal nurse practitioner
for many years and had spent most of my life
being the perfectionist, being the people pleaser,
getting the straight A's, getting the degrees,
more papers, more proof of my validity. And around
about in my mid forties, I just had this perfect
storm. come up in my life that made it impossible
for me to no longer kind of shove down the things
I had convinced myself that I had moved forward
from. And so I had a relationship that went bad
that I felt like was totally my fault and had
gone back to visit where I grew up and came home
and had depression that I just really couldn't
shake. I'd had depression my whole life, but
you'd never know what to look at me. I had my
first panic attack. And then I watched the movie
Frozen and I watched the story of this pale blonde
chick who had to conceal don't feel. And I was
like, oh my gosh, I'm Elsa. And over time, really
a matter of weeks, I went from doing very well
to just completely everything that I had shoved
down came bubbling up and I was having panic
attacks and my depression got a lot worse. And
so I had to. finally say, okay, I got to find
some help. And so I did what everybody says.
You find a trauma therapist, you, EMDR was recommended
to me because I had a lot of childhood trauma
stuff I needed to deal with. And it didn't go
well. I went into therapy and while some things
helped, I actually went from bad to worse. And,
you know, part of it felt like it was showing
up for an hour and just starting to talk about
things and then shut it down and go. And part
of it was, yeah, I think that was a good bit
of it. Like it just kept me in it all the time.
Yeah. And so in therapy, I went from bad to worse
to the extent that I tried to end my life. And
obviously it didn't work out. Right. And I'm
here. But that night just made me realize I really
need to figure out how to heal those things.
I just found it hard to believe that. with all
the things I had accomplished in my life, I was
doomed for the rest of my life to feel this way.
And I had people in the mental health field say
to me, well, you know, some people, this is just
how it's going to be. And sometimes it doesn't
end well. And I just, I don't know. I could not
buy that. And so I stuck with therapy because
it was what I was told I was meant to do. And
even my therapist was like, you know, you need
to go to a psych. get some antidepressants. And
I did that. And I got labeled as bipolar and
treatment resistant and went from med to med
to med. And none of it worked until finally one
day, I just happened to be surfing the internet
and found this woman, Shirley Jean Schmidt, who
created the developmental needs meeting strategy,
which is very not well known at all. But when
I read it, it resonated with me on so many levels.
And I called her and she was the first person
I was now. five or six years into therapy she
was the first person who ever said to me there
are trauma wounds and there are attachment wounds
and they have to be treated differently and once
i understood that and understood how to treat
the attachment wounds my life changed dramatically
i went and spent a couple days with her we did
an intensive together and it was astonishing
and so fast forward two years i'm in the NICU
and a nurse a charge nurse that I worked with
had, we just got into a conversation. We were
at the nurse's station and they were asking me
things about my story that I'd never like after
my suicide attempt, I started getting public
about it because part of why I stayed quiet was
being a nurse practitioner. I felt like you can't
tell anybody, right? People are going to think
you're incompetent. There's something wrong with
you. And down here that you had to check a box
that said you didn't have any mental health conditions
that affected your job, which it never really
did affect my job. Right. I was struggling. And
so after that night, that charge nurse came to
my office and she collapsed on the floor and
proceeded to tell me how she had a suicide plan
for two nights later. And after I talked to her,
I was like, there was just something about that
that I thought, one, I cannot be quiet anymore.
And two, I need to go back and change my focus
because too many, especially professional people,
are suffering and being quiet because they think
they can't. reach out for help or let people
know. And understanding it didn't have to take
seven years. And so I decided before I ever went
back to school that this was going to be the
practice that I did. You knew that you wanted
to practice different even before you went back
to school. Thanks for sharing so vulnerably.
I think it's really admirable and it is scary
to open up and be vulnerable with our own mental
health, I think, as providers or the experts.
So I think it's cool that you model that it's
okay to do that. And. Well, and I think we have
to do that. Like I, I, my motto for my life now
is one person's spoken story is another person's
permission to speak. And so I'm going to speak
my story. Yeah. And the important thing is the
story isn't about the trauma. The story is about
the recovery and the fact that there is hope
and you can get better. But sometimes you need
to hear that from someone who can say I was there.
I got better and there was hope on the other
side of it. Right. Yeah. No, 100%. So did you
go straight into private practice when you graduated?
I did. Okay. And what about people who say like,
well, Tracy, are you against psychiatric medications?
I'm not against meds at all. I think they serve
a purpose. I see them for a lot of, maybe not
everybody. There is some extreme mental illness
that needs to be medicated and people need proper
treatment. But I think a lot of depression and
anxiety is rooted in early stuff that we may
not even know is there. There does not have to
be major trauma to have persistent depression,
anxiety from early experiences. And so I think
medications, I see that as if you had an infection
and a fever and I gave you Tylenol, it's going
to make you feel better, right? And it may work
for a while, but eventually you're going to start
feeling worse because we're not dealing with
the underlying issue. And so from my perspective,
for a lot of people, we need to get to those
underlying issues so that we can resolve that.
And then the symptoms are going to get much better.
Right. And sometimes we need meds to help people
get there. Right. So how long have you been a
psych NP now? Six years. Going on six years.
Okay. And so. Tell us a little bit more about
like your typical week as far as like how often
are you doing these intensives? My typical week?
I don't have a typical week. That doesn't exist
in my world. Yeah. When I was doing many, many
intensives, I had some months where I probably
did 28 days worth of intensives. Now, would it
be on the scripts? It's like, yeah. Like I would
probably build in a day in between, but I was
doing a lot. And it was part of why I started
training other psych MPs to do what I do, because
one, I was getting exhausted. And two, I just
felt like it's so transformative for people.
More people need to know how to do this because
we can reach more people and help more people
heal. And so at the height of it, that's how
busy I was. Now I do my best to limit it maybe
to three intensives a month because I have so
much going on with Beyond the Script Society
and the other things I'm doing as well. OK, that
makes sense. So the fellowship that you established,
how long have you been running that? And tell
us a little bit about that in case anyone's interested
in potentially joining your next cohort. So it
started about five years ago. I started just
doing an intro to trauma course that there was
a lot of demand for. And then I had more people
saying, but we want to know how to do what you
do, because I would talk about trauma, but not
the modalities that I use. And so about four
years ago, I really sat down and wrote down my
framework and everything I do. And so over the
six months, they learned my method for treating
trauma wounds. And the thing I really stress
with everybody is we have to understand there's
two wounds. So trauma wounds are the bad things
that happen to us. Attachment wounds are the
good things that didn't happen that should have.
And they take different treatments. Now, everybody
says EMDR is the answer, but the reality is EMDR,
especially with people with a lot of childhood
stuff, get very dysregulated with EMDR. I was
one of those people. One of my most suicidal
moments, even after I knew I wasn't going to
do it anymore, but I wanted to, was after an
EMDR treatment. I was so dysregulated when I
left because it's not meant to heal those attachment
wounds. It's a trauma processing method. And
there are people that have attachment protocols
attached to their EMDR, but it's still you're
dealing with attachment differently. And so through
the fellowship, they learn. I've taken a very
focused approach that's rooted in the roots of
EMDR for processing trauma memories, which can
literally take care of a trauma memory in like
15 minutes. People who have dealt with a traumatic
experience for decades can get resolved quickly.
And then I teach them the EO State Therapy Developmental
Needs Meaning Strategy, which is the root of
a lot of what I do. I take them through that
process. They understand how trauma affects our
neurobiology, how it shows up in the body. And
then after about four months of doing all the
learning and we meet one night a week, they come
to town. I keep the cohort of eight people. Everybody
comes to town. We spend three days together.
They practice for those three days. It's a very,
very powerful three days because it's not just
them learning. They're also having their own
healing in the process. Is it like their own
mini intensive in a way? It kind of is. I mean,
that's not the intention of it. The intention
is that we're going to process and they're going
to practice. But here's the reality. People who
have had anxiety and depression and just kind
of that ick inside but no major traumas often
feel like it's just me. I had a great childhood.
All was well. There's something wrong with me.
But when you step into this kind of program and
you start to understand. What sits underneath
an attachment wound that can perpetuate internal
depression or people pleasing or, you know, the
things that just don't feel great. Why do we
show up the way that we do in certain relationships?
All those the bells and whistles start going
off and they start connecting dots and saying,
oh, my goodness, I had that experience. And now
that's why I show up like this. And it's it's
never about blaming parents. It's about helping
people understand when you are a child with a
developing brain, if it doesn't get the consistent.
emotional caregiving that a developing child
needs, it can have an impact. Yeah. Yeah, for
sure. So how many other psych NPs do you know
who practice this way and run intensives? Just
because I know a lot of people are going to be
really intrigued because I am. I was as soon
as I heard about it. I'm like, this is a really
interesting way of practicing and an interesting
modality. So yeah. Do you know many other people
who are actually implementing? I know of two
that are doing it that I just happened to meet
them because I was just trying to find my own
community when I started Beyond the Script Society.
But there are people that have gone through the
fellowship now that they have completely transformed
the way that they practice and are stepping into
intensives. Yeah. Okay. And they're like $6 ,500.
They're three days, right? Yeah. Yeah. And everybody
who does my fellowship doesn't necessarily do
intensives. Like the goal is not to teach someone
to do an intensive. It's just the model that
I prefer because I can see the power of what
happens in that three days. Yeah. Because my
goal is always let me help you heal and get on
with your life instead of being trapped, going
to appointments once or twice a week. Yeah. It's
more about though, the focus is on how do we
get to the root? So dealing with those attachment
wounds. But a lot of people do end up transferring
into, transitioning into doing some intensives
because they see the power in it right um have
you always been kind of like entrepreneur minded
no no so i was a bedside nurse and an nmp for
over 30 years this was never my plan like how
much okay because this is a lot of these episodes
people do want to know like the entrepreneur
like behind the scenes type stuff how much money
did you spend do you remember setting up your
private practice i don't i didn't spend a lot
of money honestly i i had i paid like fiverr
or one of those websites to do my website i was
running an office so that was that was my biggest
expense um i take cash so I didn't pay for anybody
to get me credentialed. It really, it wasn't
that expensive. Like getting my logo I did on
Fiverr, having to get all like, you know, I checked
with an attorney, those things you got to pay
for, but less than $5 ,000, I'm sure. Yeah. Okay.
Okay. And it sounds like now the direct patient
care that you're doing is, is those probably
like nine days a month when you're doing those
intensives. Yeah. Tell us more about like beyond
the script and why you founded that, what it
is, and also about your conference. I'm really
excited about your conference. I'm going to be
speaking on dialectical behavior therapy. Very
excited. And it's it feels like it's really the
first of its kind, you know, as far as just psych
and peace kind of doing things. As far as I know.
Challenging the norm. Yeah, as far as I know,
too. And there's going to be a lot of like really
cool people there. I'm really excited about that.
Like Alison Sikorsky, hopefully, and Debbie Granik
and just some great thoughts. Kathleen Wheeler.
Kathleen Wheeler. I was going to ask you, how
did you like become acquainted with Kathleen
Wheeler? Just because I'm nosy. You know, when
I started all this, well, when I started PMH
&P's Beyond Meds, which is the free Facebook
group. I did it just with the intention of wanting
to meet other people because I thought, surely
there's got to be some other second piece who
think like I do. And what ended up happening
is I had people join who wanted to learn therapy.
And I was like, oh, let me reach out to Dr. Wheeler
and just see if she responds. Because in my mind
at the time, it was like, Dr. Wheeler and I should
create a course where people can learn. And so,
I mean, it's been like four or five years ago
I reached out to her. It's online. She was a
professor at a college. So I went and found,
I stalked her. Yeah. Like I did with Dr. Carla.
Yeah. Fair. Yeah. And then we just got talking
and we are a kindred spirit when it comes to
our viewpoint in working with mental health and
the underlying, you have to pay attention to
neurobiology and the root beneath what you're
treating. And so she, you know, God bless her,
has been a big supporter. She went on the days
that I doubt myself. She's like, keep going,
don't stop. And she, you know, I didn't even,
when this whole conference brainchild came to
me, I talked to her the next day and she's like,
I'll be there. And she's coming. Yeah. How did
the conference like hit you? Like, how did you
ideate that? Like most things I do. That happened
about four o 'clock in the morning. I was sound
asleep. And in my mind, I was like, this has
to happen. Beyond meds got up to 35. Well, I
think there's 3 ,300 people in there now. And
I was having so many people reach out to me behind
the scenes. And here's the sad thing. This drives
me nuts. I think it's embarrassing for psych
MPs to say they want to do therapy. Like that
whole stay in your lane thing is so loud. And
there's even other psych MPs that kind of shame
people out of doing therapy and say you're not
skilled to do it. But the reality is it's part
of the scope of what we do. And just like anything,
if you're trained, if you continue to take classes,
you're going to get better. And even what I do,
therapists don't learn that in school. The modalities
I use are not taught in school. They get general
training just like we do. And then it's kind
of on us to go and get further education. Make
sure we're doing it well. Right. And so I was
just like, we need to stop listening to the naysayers.
And there is a huge shift happening. And I think
it's pretty freaking amazing. And I'm excited
to see it because the me of 46 years old wished
desperately she had a me back then. And I'm glad
to see there's so many other people now that
get it. Yeah, absolutely. It's really cool. um
so the conference what are the dates october
14th through the 17th 2026 in orlando florida
okay perfect perfect and there's still tickets
available correct there are okay cool we'll put
the link it's exciting though to see people are
excited and yeah as soon as i put it out there
you can feel the excitement of it yeah we have
great speakers you know even the speakers I'm
just so thrilled the people that came to me and
said, I need to be part of this. And they're
so excited. And we're building something really
special. This isn't just sit and get talked about
all day. This is let's make it experiential and
connect with each other as well as learn. Yeah.
Your heart's in it. And it's not just like another
pharma -sponsored kind of event type thing. And
again, not because I'm anti -meds. I'm just pro
let's heal and move forward. Yeah. Yeah. And
I think that's good to also, yeah, be explicit
about. I love that. I love that. So what advice
do you have for new psych and peace in 2026?
Because there's a lot of new people graduating
right now. Well, I think the biggest thing is
just be true to who you are. And I, you know,
I have found even now for. As long as I've been
doing this, I can have a lot of self -doubt creep
in. If I just read one comment by another psych
MP who's judgy or it doesn't align with what
I'm doing, I start to doubt myself. And I think
the biggest thing is knowing yourself and what
you want out of the practice that you have and
you're doing, and then surround yourself with
people who align with that. And if something
doesn't feel right, find a different mentor,
but find mentors that will support you. so that
you can be the best psych MP that you want to
do and there's no shame and like if you're someone
who wants to be primarily a prescriber that's
okay find someone who that's their wheelhouse
and learn from them if you're someone who wants
to combine both and there's so many people and
I this is the main thing I've learned over the
last couple years is there really are a lot of
different psych MPs out there doing different
things we just have to be willing to try to find
them and put ourselves out there yeah it's true
yeah I just interviewed a great psych MP yesterday
who's like I don't I don't want to be doing therapy.
I do 15 minute med checks and I love it. You
know, and I thought that was cool that she was
like and she's like, I know maybe it's not popular.
It's like every everybody that has their different
beliefs and convictions. But and we all have
talents. Right. And, you know, when I have clients
who call me who want medications, I have my list
of PMH and P's that I send them to because I
am grateful that I know the second piece and
I know how they practice. What I love about them
is they understand, yes, we're going to give
you medication to help you. But also, if you
really want to get doing better, we got to work
with what's underneath of it as well. Yeah. OK,
so you don't do med management in your practice.
No, I did for a while, but I kind of got to where
I felt like. I don't know, I didn't want to be
like the jack of all trades and master of none.
I wanted to be really good at what I was doing
and. I see such amazing shifts in my clients
that I just put my heart and soul into this because,
you know, in the end, that's my ultimate goal.
Yeah. Yeah. You really care about it. How many
sources of income or businesses do you have?
Well, technically, I have two LLCs. Okay. But
I have. So the Beyond the Script Society has
a paid membership. And then I have my practice.
We have the conference going on now. I have some
courses. I have my fellowship. So, you know,
and it's really interesting because, again, I'd
never set out to be an entrepreneur. Like I don't
even when I hear the word, I don't even feel
like I fit in that category. I'm just I create
things as I feel like people need them or they
reach out to me and they say, hey, where can
we find this? I'm like, well, I don't know. Here,
let me make it. Let's do it. Yeah, because you
just you just went and were you a speaker on
Nurse Blake's? Crucial. Nurse Conancy. Yeah.
How did that come about? Like, and you get paid
to speak at conferences too. That's also really
cool. Like how, how will these things happen?
Just again, I guess you responding to things
and then. Well, it's a couple of things. It's
saying yes to a lot of things, right? If somebody
asked me to be on a podcast, I'm going to show
up. It's being authentically me. I think like,
I just, I'm just open to whatever comes to me.
And I've done a lot of public speaking. So a
lot of stuff kind of like, If one person hears
me at something, then they might reach out to
me and say, hey, can you come do this thing?
And that's kind of what happened with Nurse Blake,
where the woman that was running his education
had seen me do something else. And she was like,
oh, my gosh, we need you to be part of this.
And so they reached out. And yeah, I have another
thing I do. I speak around the country for a
wounded veterans group. But again, it happened
because someone who had seen me speak somewhere
else was like, oh, we'd love you to come do this.
So it's just. Yeah. Do you enjoy public speaking?
I do actually. Like it doesn't, I don't know.
It's funny. When I left for a nurse con, my son
-in -law who was new to the family, he's like,
aren't you scared to death? And I was like, it
doesn't, it doesn't rattle me at all. And I can't
tell you why I just love doing it. I love the
interaction and well, I love aha movements and
that's the thing. And when they happen, whether
it's one -on -one with a client or in the audience
where we can just get real with each other and.
People can feel seen and heard and learn. I love
doing that. And I love interacting with people.
Yeah, absolutely. What brings you the most joy
right now and kind of what you're doing in your
day to day? Business wise? Yeah, sure. Business
wise. Yeah. I'm really enjoying this conference.
It's given me a new sense of energy because when
I woke up with this brainchild, I was like, I
don't know. People may not buy into this. It
may not even fly. When I went and I signed the
contract, I hadn't even talked to potential speakers.
And I signed this massive contract with the hotel.
And I was like, what the heck am I doing? And
to see, I mean, I'm still having people reach
out to me and say, hey, I heard about this. I
want to be part of it. Now I have to tell people,
no, because there's just like, we need more days
if we're going to do that. Maybe next year. It's
pretty special. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I totally
know what you mean, because I'm planning an in
-person intensive as part of my fellowship right
now. And it just like it lights me up to even
though I'm still learning and I'm not an expert
on in -person events. I'm like, this is going
to be really special to connect, you know, in
person. I think we all kind of are craving more
of that in -person connection with other psych
NPs and like minded people. I hope so, because
I've had a lot of people reach out and say, are
you going to stream this conference? And the
answer is no, this year I'm not. It's just another
expense that I don't want to add to it. But also,
I think it's important to be in the room together.
And you're more present if you're not behind
a screen and having all the distractions around
you. Yeah, that's very true. Have you invested
in much in the way of like coaching programs
and continuing ed and resources? Oh, my gosh.
I can't even tell you how many thousands of dollars.
I guess that's my biggest expense, how much I've
invested in getting my own help. Yeah. How have
you sought those people out? Like who to learn
from, I guess, and what programs to do? Since
my own healing and returning to myself, I really
pay attention to who I feel like aligns with
what I feel like I want to be doing. matches
the mission of what I have for me. And so I always
ask before I make any decisions anymore, is this
in alignment with where I think I need to be
going? And so I do a lot of checking people out
before I will do anything with them. And I don't
know, just kind of getting to know them before
I commit to anything. Yeah. Kind of using your
wise mind. Yeah. Smart. Which when you're bringing
a lot of old stuff forward with you, we don't
often do that. And we shut down our intuition
and we shut down our inner voice. It says, maybe
this isn't right for me. But then the part of
us that's afraid to say no or or doesn't like
conflict will say yes. But so I'm very careful
with my yeses these days. And let me think about
it is my favorite phrase. So when I am asked
yesterday, I was invited to be a VIP at the Jingle
Ball in New York City in December. And when I
was invited at first, I was really excited. And
I was like, oh, yeah, I'm going to do this. But
then as I sat with it last night, I was like,
it's really not something that's fitting into
my schedule that great this year. And so I need
to say no. But in the past, I've been like, yeah,
I'll get there and I'll figure out how to make
it. And I would have drove myself nuts in my
schedule. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like you've
built, you know, quite a personal brand for yourself,
but you didn't set out like going, I'm going
to build a personal brand for myself. No. No,
I know. I still like, it's weird. I don't even
see it that way. I just. Public facing and yeah,
it's, it's interesting how it's just like you
being opened opportunities has kind of led to
that. Right. More than anything. I think it's
just, I'm me. Like I just, let's just have a
conversation. You know, I honestly feel like
at the root of everything we're doing. The biggest
thing that's missing is just connection and kindness.
Even when I think back to my days of therapy,
the times that that therapist looked at me because
I was very dysregulated and not doing well and
didn't do well with EMDR. And she would look
at me and say, you just aren't stable enough
for this. You just don't have the skills for
this. And it was all judgy. And I don't think
she meant to be that way. But if just once I
had heard this just doesn't seem to be working
for you, let's figure out something else. I think
that would have had a major impact and just taking
a step back and saying, okay, let's acknowledge
most people really do know inside them what they
need. Even when my clients come and they're like,
you know, they're all over the place and they
don't, they've been struggling for years and
I just have them get quiet and settle down. And
okay, I promise you everything you need is right
inside of you. You just need me to help guide
you there, but you've got it. We really do have
it. And I think. that's what drives me is just
let's be kind and connect with one another and
be human. And then I think that could be just
that alone is so healing. Yeah. A hundred percent.
That's a great point. That's a great point. Anything
else that you think that psych and P's who are
kind of like pushing the boundaries of what we
doing, what we feel we're expected to do any
other advice for those people? Cause there are.
quite a few people out there like that who are
challenging the norms. I think you need to surround
yourself with come to BeyondMeds, join us there,
find other psych MPs that are like -minded like
that, because it is easy to have the naysayers
make you doubt yourself. And, you know, unfortunately,
this can be a very isolating job, right? Like
my business, I'm a business of one. And so when
I'm sitting here for hours on end creating things
on the computer and then I get in my head and
then suddenly I'll get a call from someone like
you or someone else who reminds me, oh, that's
why I'm doing this. But we have to be really
intentional about what surround ourselves with
people who are in alignment with what we feel
and what we want to be doing and how we feel
called. While, you know, obviously we need to
know what's within our scope. Yeah. But this
certainly is. Yeah, that's that's good advice,
though, because I do think a lot of us can resonate
with the overthinking and the self -doubt. And
it happens when we're new practitioners. It happens
when we're doing anything new, really. Right.
And I think it is so powerful to, like, connect
with other people in those moments to just feel
seen and be like, it's OK. You know, I don't
have to. Especially people. I had somebody call
me last week who. She sent me an email first
and I was like, we got to get them all together
because she wanted to become a psych MP. She
was an FMP because she wanted to start providing
therapy. And her professor in her psych MP program
told her she has no business doing therapy. So
she reached out to me because she's like, I had
heard about you and I know that you're doing
it. So did you go back and get your therapy degree?
And I was like, why is a professor telling you
this? Yeah. So I sent her the APNA statement.
And I, you know, I was like, read the Scope and
Standards of Practice book and find a different
professor. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Well, that's cool,
though, that they seek you out. Yeah, I've had
a fear of public speaking for a while, you know,
so. But we're fixing that. Doing this in -person
conference. I told the people in my fellowship
this. They loved it. I did have a brief period
where I was like, how can I get out of this?
I don't think I'm going to go to the conference.
What do I tell Tracy? I do it. I was like, where
does not my favorite state and no offense, but
like I was coming up with reasons why, you know
what I mean? And then I'm like, oh, I know what
I'm doing. I see it. Okay. You know, so. What's
the worst thing that's going to happen? Yeah,
I think it's, it's, it's good. Challenging, challenging
myself outside my comfort zone has kind of been
the name of the game the last couple of years.
It's been good. Yeah. And so what happens? You
grow, right? And you. Yeah. The more you do it,
the more comfortable you get. Yeah, exactly.
Exactly. I ask all of my podcast guests at the
end, what does the term no prior off mean to
you? Man, I think I've lived that now. Being
self -employed, having no, I actually just said
this on the nurse blade cruise. Nobody tells
me what to think or say now, right? I don't have
to worry about getting fired. My boss approves
everything I say. And so I don't need prior off
for anything. You know, I do need to watch what
I say sometimes, because if I wanted to be really
real about some of the things, I think it might
challenge the status quo a bit too much. But
in the end, I think it's just I bring it back
to being in alignment with ourselves and feeling
like it's OK to speak. Yeah. Yeah. And do what
we know what we're called to do. Yeah. It is
liberating when you feel like. You are not answering
to this corporate organization or, you know,
you feel like you can just kind of be yourself
and what's the worst that's going to happen.
You know what I mean? Exactly. Yeah. Well, I
don't like what you say. Yeah. Right. You're
inspiring a lot of people and it'll be great
to meet in person in October. And yeah, grab
your spot, guys. If you want some really high
quality in person. connection and learning. So
thanks for being on Tracy and would love to have
you back for another episode down the line. Thanks
for having me.