WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.120 I was a neonatal nurse practitioner for many 00:00:02.120 --> 00:00:05.940 years and had spent most of my life being the 00:00:05.940 --> 00:00:07.879 perfectionist, being the people pleaser, getting 00:00:07.879 --> 00:00:10.460 the straight A's, getting the degrees, more papers, 00:00:10.539 --> 00:00:13.080 more proof of my validity. Around about in my 00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:16.739 mid forties, I just had this perfect storm come 00:00:16.739 --> 00:00:19.179 up in my life. I had my first panic attack and 00:00:19.179 --> 00:00:21.899 then I watched the movie Frozen. And I watched 00:00:21.899 --> 00:00:24.239 the story of this pale blonde chick who had to 00:00:24.239 --> 00:00:26.800 conceal don't feel. And I was like, oh my gosh, 00:00:26.940 --> 00:00:29.280 I'm Elsa. The important thing is the story isn't 00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:31.160 about the trauma. The story is about the recovery 00:00:31.160 --> 00:00:33.719 and the fact that there is hope and you can get 00:00:33.719 --> 00:00:37.020 better. About four years ago, I really sat down 00:00:37.020 --> 00:00:38.560 and wrote down my framework and everything I 00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:41.740 do. And so over the six months, they learned 00:00:41.740 --> 00:00:45.859 my method for treating trauma wounds. The thing 00:00:45.859 --> 00:00:48.100 I really, you know, stress with everybody is 00:00:48.100 --> 00:00:50.079 we have to understand there's two wounds. So 00:00:50.079 --> 00:00:51.799 trauma wounds are the bad things that happen 00:00:51.799 --> 00:00:53.840 to us. Attachment wounds are the good things 00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:55.679 that didn't happen that should have. I think 00:00:55.679 --> 00:00:57.939 it's embarrassing for psych MPs to say they want 00:00:57.939 --> 00:01:00.219 to do therapy. Therapists don't learn that in 00:01:00.219 --> 00:01:03.060 school. The modalities I use are not taught in 00:01:03.060 --> 00:01:05.260 school. They get general training just like we 00:01:05.260 --> 00:01:11.560 do. Welcome to another episode of No Cryer Off. 00:01:11.739 --> 00:01:14.799 Today we have a very special guest, Tracy Powell. 00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:17.659 Tracy is one of those people whose personal healing 00:01:17.659 --> 00:01:20.260 journey completely changed the trajectory of 00:01:20.260 --> 00:01:22.879 her life and ultimately an entire corner of the 00:01:22.879 --> 00:01:25.719 psych NP profession. Before any of this, she 00:01:25.719 --> 00:01:28.319 spent nearly 30 years in nursing, most of it 00:01:28.319 --> 00:01:30.480 in the NICU, caring for some of the most fragile 00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:33.510 patients imaginable. But behind the scenes, she 00:01:33.510 --> 00:01:35.590 was carrying unresolved childhood trauma that 00:01:35.590 --> 00:01:37.790 she had spent decades pushing down while being 00:01:37.790 --> 00:01:40.549 the strong one for everyone else. And eventually, 00:01:40.709 --> 00:01:44.189 at 46 years old, it caught up to her. What's 00:01:44.189 --> 00:01:46.230 fascinating is that when she entered the mental 00:01:46.230 --> 00:01:48.170 health system as a patient, the conventional 00:01:48.170 --> 00:01:50.829 approach didn't really help her. Weekly therapy, 00:01:51.090 --> 00:01:54.150 SSRIs, symptom management. It wasn't until she 00:01:54.150 --> 00:01:57.349 found deeper subconscious focused trauma work, 00:01:57.469 --> 00:01:59.810 things like attachment repair, inner child work. 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:03.480 ego state therapy, EMDR, somatic therapies, that 00:02:03.480 --> 00:02:06.000 things truly began to shift. And that experience 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:08.199 didn't just heal her personally. It completely 00:02:08.199 --> 00:02:10.539 transformed the way she practices as a psych 00:02:10.539 --> 00:02:14.180 NP. Today, Tracy runs a radically different kind 00:02:14.180 --> 00:02:16.439 of practice model. She does multi -day trauma 00:02:16.439 --> 00:02:19.400 intensive, three full days focused entirely on 00:02:19.400 --> 00:02:21.400 helping clients get to the root of their trauma 00:02:21.400 --> 00:02:26.900 in a deeply immersive way. And she also runs 00:02:26.900 --> 00:02:30.800 an incredible community, which she founded. PMHMP's 00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:33.360 Beyond Meds community she created Beyond the 00:02:33.360 --> 00:02:36.759 Script Society launched a 20 -week trauma -informed 00:02:36.759 --> 00:02:40.259 fellowship for psych NPs and is now hosting what 00:02:40.259 --> 00:02:43.639 may be the very first national psych NP conference 00:02:43.639 --> 00:02:46.719 centered primarily around therapy and trauma 00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:49.419 treatment rather than medications alone. This 00:02:49.419 --> 00:02:53.500 conversation goes far beyond business or clinical 00:02:53.500 --> 00:02:55.979 techniques. At its core, it's really about what 00:02:55.979 --> 00:02:58.300 happens when a provider realizes the very system 00:02:58.729 --> 00:03:01.030 They eventually joined as a clinician, failed 00:03:01.030 --> 00:03:02.969 them as a patient, and decides to help build 00:03:02.969 --> 00:03:06.909 something different. So welcome, Tracy. Thank 00:03:06.909 --> 00:03:11.030 you. It was quite the intro. Thanks for taking 00:03:11.030 --> 00:03:13.270 the time to be on. We appreciate it. We appreciate 00:03:13.270 --> 00:03:14.770 it. I don't even know where to start with you 00:03:14.770 --> 00:03:17.909 because you just are so multifaceted. You know 00:03:17.909 --> 00:03:21.169 what I mean? It's really cool. Yeah, it's really 00:03:21.169 --> 00:03:25.030 cool. Tell us a little bit about kind of what 00:03:25.030 --> 00:03:29.300 got you into this. career? I know I touched on 00:03:29.300 --> 00:03:32.099 it, but like, yeah, just tell us a little bit 00:03:32.099 --> 00:03:37.879 about what. As a psych MP? Yeah. Well, you did 00:03:37.879 --> 00:03:40.099 touch on it. I was a neonatal nurse practitioner 00:03:40.099 --> 00:03:44.479 for many years and had spent most of my life 00:03:44.479 --> 00:03:46.840 being the perfectionist, being the people pleaser, 00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:48.780 getting the straight A's, getting the degrees, 00:03:48.939 --> 00:03:53.560 more papers, more proof of my validity. And around 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:56.759 about in my mid forties, I just had this perfect 00:03:56.759 --> 00:04:00.530 storm. come up in my life that made it impossible 00:04:00.530 --> 00:04:05.289 for me to no longer kind of shove down the things 00:04:05.289 --> 00:04:07.409 I had convinced myself that I had moved forward 00:04:07.409 --> 00:04:12.849 from. And so I had a relationship that went bad 00:04:12.849 --> 00:04:17.129 that I felt like was totally my fault and had 00:04:17.129 --> 00:04:20.149 gone back to visit where I grew up and came home 00:04:20.149 --> 00:04:21.910 and had depression that I just really couldn't 00:04:21.910 --> 00:04:23.509 shake. I'd had depression my whole life, but 00:04:23.509 --> 00:04:26.089 you'd never know what to look at me. I had my 00:04:26.089 --> 00:04:28.639 first panic attack. And then I watched the movie 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:31.779 Frozen and I watched the story of this pale blonde 00:04:31.779 --> 00:04:34.420 chick who had to conceal don't feel. And I was 00:04:34.420 --> 00:04:39.740 like, oh my gosh, I'm Elsa. And over time, really 00:04:39.740 --> 00:04:43.560 a matter of weeks, I went from doing very well 00:04:43.560 --> 00:04:47.379 to just completely everything that I had shoved 00:04:47.379 --> 00:04:50.220 down came bubbling up and I was having panic 00:04:50.220 --> 00:04:53.079 attacks and my depression got a lot worse. And 00:04:53.079 --> 00:04:56.860 so I had to. finally say, okay, I got to find 00:04:56.860 --> 00:04:59.639 some help. And so I did what everybody says. 00:04:59.800 --> 00:05:04.279 You find a trauma therapist, you, EMDR was recommended 00:05:04.279 --> 00:05:06.019 to me because I had a lot of childhood trauma 00:05:06.019 --> 00:05:09.920 stuff I needed to deal with. And it didn't go 00:05:09.920 --> 00:05:13.680 well. I went into therapy and while some things 00:05:13.680 --> 00:05:17.139 helped, I actually went from bad to worse. And, 00:05:17.180 --> 00:05:20.360 you know, part of it felt like it was showing 00:05:20.360 --> 00:05:22.420 up for an hour and just starting to talk about 00:05:22.420 --> 00:05:26.379 things and then shut it down and go. And part 00:05:26.379 --> 00:05:28.959 of it was, yeah, I think that was a good bit 00:05:28.959 --> 00:05:31.040 of it. Like it just kept me in it all the time. 00:05:31.899 --> 00:05:38.000 Yeah. And so in therapy, I went from bad to worse 00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:41.360 to the extent that I tried to end my life. And 00:05:41.360 --> 00:05:45.480 obviously it didn't work out. Right. And I'm 00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:48.660 here. But that night just made me realize I really 00:05:48.660 --> 00:05:51.060 need to figure out how to heal those things. 00:05:51.120 --> 00:05:53.240 I just found it hard to believe that. with all 00:05:53.240 --> 00:05:55.560 the things I had accomplished in my life, I was 00:05:55.560 --> 00:05:57.339 doomed for the rest of my life to feel this way. 00:05:58.139 --> 00:06:00.560 And I had people in the mental health field say 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:02.420 to me, well, you know, some people, this is just 00:06:02.420 --> 00:06:04.160 how it's going to be. And sometimes it doesn't 00:06:04.160 --> 00:06:06.199 end well. And I just, I don't know. I could not 00:06:06.199 --> 00:06:10.980 buy that. And so I stuck with therapy because 00:06:10.980 --> 00:06:13.480 it was what I was told I was meant to do. And 00:06:13.480 --> 00:06:15.120 even my therapist was like, you know, you need 00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:18.339 to go to a psych. get some antidepressants. And 00:06:18.339 --> 00:06:20.459 I did that. And I got labeled as bipolar and 00:06:20.459 --> 00:06:22.160 treatment resistant and went from med to med 00:06:22.160 --> 00:06:24.000 to med. And none of it worked until finally one 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:26.959 day, I just happened to be surfing the internet 00:06:26.959 --> 00:06:30.920 and found this woman, Shirley Jean Schmidt, who 00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:33.560 created the developmental needs meeting strategy, 00:06:33.699 --> 00:06:36.920 which is very not well known at all. But when 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:40.180 I read it, it resonated with me on so many levels. 00:06:40.319 --> 00:06:43.220 And I called her and she was the first person 00:06:43.220 --> 00:06:47.819 I was now. five or six years into therapy she 00:06:47.819 --> 00:06:50.600 was the first person who ever said to me there 00:06:50.600 --> 00:06:52.519 are trauma wounds and there are attachment wounds 00:06:52.519 --> 00:06:57.279 and they have to be treated differently and once 00:06:57.279 --> 00:06:59.379 i understood that and understood how to treat 00:06:59.379 --> 00:07:02.920 the attachment wounds my life changed dramatically 00:07:02.920 --> 00:07:05.560 i went and spent a couple days with her we did 00:07:05.560 --> 00:07:08.339 an intensive together and it was astonishing 00:07:08.339 --> 00:07:13.519 and so fast forward two years i'm in the NICU 00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:16.509 and a nurse a charge nurse that I worked with 00:07:16.509 --> 00:07:20.029 had, we just got into a conversation. We were 00:07:20.029 --> 00:07:21.850 at the nurse's station and they were asking me 00:07:21.850 --> 00:07:25.089 things about my story that I'd never like after 00:07:25.089 --> 00:07:28.509 my suicide attempt, I started getting public 00:07:28.509 --> 00:07:30.750 about it because part of why I stayed quiet was 00:07:30.750 --> 00:07:32.370 being a nurse practitioner. I felt like you can't 00:07:32.370 --> 00:07:33.990 tell anybody, right? People are going to think 00:07:33.990 --> 00:07:35.730 you're incompetent. There's something wrong with 00:07:35.730 --> 00:07:38.389 you. And down here that you had to check a box 00:07:38.389 --> 00:07:39.930 that said you didn't have any mental health conditions 00:07:39.930 --> 00:07:41.850 that affected your job, which it never really 00:07:41.850 --> 00:07:46.300 did affect my job. Right. I was struggling. And 00:07:46.300 --> 00:07:49.240 so after that night, that charge nurse came to 00:07:49.240 --> 00:07:52.240 my office and she collapsed on the floor and 00:07:52.240 --> 00:07:54.120 proceeded to tell me how she had a suicide plan 00:07:54.120 --> 00:07:57.439 for two nights later. And after I talked to her, 00:07:57.519 --> 00:07:59.860 I was like, there was just something about that 00:07:59.860 --> 00:08:02.319 that I thought, one, I cannot be quiet anymore. 00:08:02.720 --> 00:08:06.019 And two, I need to go back and change my focus 00:08:06.019 --> 00:08:09.199 because too many, especially professional people, 00:08:09.300 --> 00:08:12.459 are suffering and being quiet because they think 00:08:12.459 --> 00:08:14.529 they can't. reach out for help or let people 00:08:14.529 --> 00:08:18.449 know. And understanding it didn't have to take 00:08:18.449 --> 00:08:21.930 seven years. And so I decided before I ever went 00:08:21.930 --> 00:08:23.730 back to school that this was going to be the 00:08:23.730 --> 00:08:26.829 practice that I did. You knew that you wanted 00:08:26.829 --> 00:08:30.110 to practice different even before you went back 00:08:30.110 --> 00:08:32.990 to school. Thanks for sharing so vulnerably. 00:08:33.110 --> 00:08:37.509 I think it's really admirable and it is scary 00:08:37.509 --> 00:08:41.509 to open up and be vulnerable with our own mental 00:08:41.509 --> 00:08:44.480 health, I think, as providers or the experts. 00:08:44.639 --> 00:08:47.639 So I think it's cool that you model that it's 00:08:47.639 --> 00:08:50.600 okay to do that. And. Well, and I think we have 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:53.960 to do that. Like I, I, my motto for my life now 00:08:53.960 --> 00:08:56.700 is one person's spoken story is another person's 00:08:56.700 --> 00:08:59.779 permission to speak. And so I'm going to speak 00:08:59.779 --> 00:09:03.039 my story. Yeah. And the important thing is the 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:05.100 story isn't about the trauma. The story is about 00:09:05.100 --> 00:09:07.259 the recovery and the fact that there is hope 00:09:07.259 --> 00:09:10.580 and you can get better. But sometimes you need 00:09:10.580 --> 00:09:12.440 to hear that from someone who can say I was there. 00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:15.580 I got better and there was hope on the other 00:09:15.580 --> 00:09:20.259 side of it. Right. Yeah. No, 100%. So did you 00:09:20.259 --> 00:09:22.379 go straight into private practice when you graduated? 00:09:22.919 --> 00:09:29.500 I did. Okay. And what about people who say like, 00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:32.159 well, Tracy, are you against psychiatric medications? 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:36.740 I'm not against meds at all. I think they serve 00:09:36.740 --> 00:09:39.460 a purpose. I see them for a lot of, maybe not 00:09:39.460 --> 00:09:42.100 everybody. There is some extreme mental illness 00:09:42.100 --> 00:09:44.779 that needs to be medicated and people need proper 00:09:44.779 --> 00:09:48.399 treatment. But I think a lot of depression and 00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:51.440 anxiety is rooted in early stuff that we may 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:53.159 not even know is there. There does not have to 00:09:53.159 --> 00:09:55.779 be major trauma to have persistent depression, 00:09:55.860 --> 00:09:59.500 anxiety from early experiences. And so I think 00:09:59.500 --> 00:10:02.639 medications, I see that as if you had an infection 00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:05.059 and a fever and I gave you Tylenol, it's going 00:10:05.059 --> 00:10:07.879 to make you feel better, right? And it may work 00:10:07.879 --> 00:10:09.559 for a while, but eventually you're going to start 00:10:09.559 --> 00:10:10.799 feeling worse because we're not dealing with 00:10:10.799 --> 00:10:15.220 the underlying issue. And so from my perspective, 00:10:15.259 --> 00:10:17.580 for a lot of people, we need to get to those 00:10:17.580 --> 00:10:20.159 underlying issues so that we can resolve that. 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:22.440 And then the symptoms are going to get much better. 00:10:23.139 --> 00:10:25.620 Right. And sometimes we need meds to help people 00:10:25.620 --> 00:10:28.580 get there. Right. So how long have you been a 00:10:28.580 --> 00:10:32.379 psych NP now? Six years. Going on six years. 00:10:32.700 --> 00:10:36.019 Okay. And so. Tell us a little bit more about 00:10:36.019 --> 00:10:40.440 like your typical week as far as like how often 00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:43.379 are you doing these intensives? My typical week? 00:10:43.460 --> 00:10:45.419 I don't have a typical week. That doesn't exist 00:10:45.419 --> 00:10:50.159 in my world. Yeah. When I was doing many, many 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:52.559 intensives, I had some months where I probably 00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:56.139 did 28 days worth of intensives. Now, would it 00:10:56.139 --> 00:10:59.200 be on the scripts? It's like, yeah. Like I would 00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:03.159 probably build in a day in between, but I was 00:11:03.159 --> 00:11:07.080 doing a lot. And it was part of why I started 00:11:07.080 --> 00:11:09.620 training other psych MPs to do what I do, because 00:11:09.620 --> 00:11:12.340 one, I was getting exhausted. And two, I just 00:11:12.340 --> 00:11:14.379 felt like it's so transformative for people. 00:11:14.620 --> 00:11:16.759 More people need to know how to do this because 00:11:16.759 --> 00:11:19.840 we can reach more people and help more people 00:11:19.840 --> 00:11:23.399 heal. And so at the height of it, that's how 00:11:23.399 --> 00:11:26.580 busy I was. Now I do my best to limit it maybe 00:11:26.580 --> 00:11:29.820 to three intensives a month because I have so 00:11:29.820 --> 00:11:31.179 much going on with Beyond the Script Society 00:11:31.179 --> 00:11:34.259 and the other things I'm doing as well. OK, that 00:11:34.259 --> 00:11:37.600 makes sense. So the fellowship that you established, 00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:40.600 how long have you been running that? And tell 00:11:40.600 --> 00:11:43.620 us a little bit about that in case anyone's interested 00:11:43.620 --> 00:11:46.980 in potentially joining your next cohort. So it 00:11:46.980 --> 00:11:50.379 started about five years ago. I started just 00:11:50.379 --> 00:11:54.379 doing an intro to trauma course that there was 00:11:54.379 --> 00:11:56.600 a lot of demand for. And then I had more people 00:11:56.600 --> 00:11:58.220 saying, but we want to know how to do what you 00:11:58.220 --> 00:12:00.259 do, because I would talk about trauma, but not 00:12:00.259 --> 00:12:03.519 the modalities that I use. And so about four 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:06.019 years ago, I really sat down and wrote down my 00:12:06.019 --> 00:12:09.000 framework and everything I do. And so over the 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:12.519 six months, they learned my method for treating 00:12:12.519 --> 00:12:17.399 trauma wounds. And the thing I really stress 00:12:17.399 --> 00:12:19.460 with everybody is we have to understand there's 00:12:19.460 --> 00:12:21.600 two wounds. So trauma wounds are the bad things 00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:24.179 that happen to us. Attachment wounds are the 00:12:24.179 --> 00:12:25.820 good things that didn't happen that should have. 00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:29.799 And they take different treatments. Now, everybody 00:12:29.799 --> 00:12:32.639 says EMDR is the answer, but the reality is EMDR, 00:12:32.759 --> 00:12:35.580 especially with people with a lot of childhood 00:12:35.580 --> 00:12:38.379 stuff, get very dysregulated with EMDR. I was 00:12:38.379 --> 00:12:39.799 one of those people. One of my most suicidal 00:12:39.799 --> 00:12:41.740 moments, even after I knew I wasn't going to 00:12:41.740 --> 00:12:44.120 do it anymore, but I wanted to, was after an 00:12:44.120 --> 00:12:46.480 EMDR treatment. I was so dysregulated when I 00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:49.820 left because it's not meant to heal those attachment 00:12:49.820 --> 00:12:52.500 wounds. It's a trauma processing method. And 00:12:52.500 --> 00:12:54.879 there are people that have attachment protocols 00:12:54.879 --> 00:12:57.480 attached to their EMDR, but it's still you're 00:12:57.480 --> 00:13:01.129 dealing with attachment differently. And so through 00:13:01.129 --> 00:13:04.009 the fellowship, they learn. I've taken a very 00:13:04.009 --> 00:13:07.450 focused approach that's rooted in the roots of 00:13:07.450 --> 00:13:10.769 EMDR for processing trauma memories, which can 00:13:10.769 --> 00:13:13.669 literally take care of a trauma memory in like 00:13:13.669 --> 00:13:16.629 15 minutes. People who have dealt with a traumatic 00:13:16.629 --> 00:13:18.889 experience for decades can get resolved quickly. 00:13:19.929 --> 00:13:24.929 And then I teach them the EO State Therapy Developmental 00:13:24.929 --> 00:13:26.750 Needs Meaning Strategy, which is the root of 00:13:26.750 --> 00:13:29.269 a lot of what I do. I take them through that 00:13:29.269 --> 00:13:33.350 process. They understand how trauma affects our 00:13:33.350 --> 00:13:36.909 neurobiology, how it shows up in the body. And 00:13:36.909 --> 00:13:38.350 then after about four months of doing all the 00:13:38.350 --> 00:13:41.309 learning and we meet one night a week, they come 00:13:41.309 --> 00:13:44.330 to town. I keep the cohort of eight people. Everybody 00:13:44.330 --> 00:13:46.049 comes to town. We spend three days together. 00:13:46.169 --> 00:13:48.269 They practice for those three days. It's a very, 00:13:48.330 --> 00:13:52.870 very powerful three days because it's not just 00:13:52.870 --> 00:13:54.830 them learning. They're also having their own 00:13:54.830 --> 00:13:58.480 healing in the process. Is it like their own 00:13:58.480 --> 00:14:01.399 mini intensive in a way? It kind of is. I mean, 00:14:01.419 --> 00:14:03.039 that's not the intention of it. The intention 00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:04.840 is that we're going to process and they're going 00:14:04.840 --> 00:14:08.580 to practice. But here's the reality. People who 00:14:08.580 --> 00:14:11.440 have had anxiety and depression and just kind 00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:14.240 of that ick inside but no major traumas often 00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:17.120 feel like it's just me. I had a great childhood. 00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:19.279 All was well. There's something wrong with me. 00:14:19.779 --> 00:14:22.120 But when you step into this kind of program and 00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:24.970 you start to understand. What sits underneath 00:14:24.970 --> 00:14:27.649 an attachment wound that can perpetuate internal 00:14:27.649 --> 00:14:31.269 depression or people pleasing or, you know, the 00:14:31.269 --> 00:14:33.269 things that just don't feel great. Why do we 00:14:33.269 --> 00:14:35.049 show up the way that we do in certain relationships? 00:14:35.950 --> 00:14:37.850 All those the bells and whistles start going 00:14:37.850 --> 00:14:39.429 off and they start connecting dots and saying, 00:14:39.490 --> 00:14:42.909 oh, my goodness, I had that experience. And now 00:14:42.909 --> 00:14:45.049 that's why I show up like this. And it's it's 00:14:45.049 --> 00:14:47.009 never about blaming parents. It's about helping 00:14:47.009 --> 00:14:49.590 people understand when you are a child with a 00:14:49.590 --> 00:14:53.009 developing brain, if it doesn't get the consistent. 00:14:53.799 --> 00:14:56.080 emotional caregiving that a developing child 00:14:56.080 --> 00:15:00.019 needs, it can have an impact. Yeah. Yeah, for 00:15:00.019 --> 00:15:02.899 sure. So how many other psych NPs do you know 00:15:02.899 --> 00:15:06.220 who practice this way and run intensives? Just 00:15:06.220 --> 00:15:08.159 because I know a lot of people are going to be 00:15:08.159 --> 00:15:11.600 really intrigued because I am. I was as soon 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:13.159 as I heard about it. I'm like, this is a really 00:15:13.159 --> 00:15:15.840 interesting way of practicing and an interesting 00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:19.740 modality. So yeah. Do you know many other people 00:15:19.740 --> 00:15:23.350 who are actually implementing? I know of two 00:15:23.350 --> 00:15:27.509 that are doing it that I just happened to meet 00:15:27.509 --> 00:15:28.789 them because I was just trying to find my own 00:15:28.789 --> 00:15:30.330 community when I started Beyond the Script Society. 00:15:32.090 --> 00:15:34.129 But there are people that have gone through the 00:15:34.129 --> 00:15:36.509 fellowship now that they have completely transformed 00:15:36.509 --> 00:15:39.370 the way that they practice and are stepping into 00:15:39.370 --> 00:15:43.789 intensives. Yeah. Okay. And they're like $6 ,500. 00:15:44.169 --> 00:15:48.379 They're three days, right? Yeah. Yeah. And everybody 00:15:48.379 --> 00:15:50.159 who does my fellowship doesn't necessarily do 00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:51.840 intensives. Like the goal is not to teach someone 00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:54.279 to do an intensive. It's just the model that 00:15:54.279 --> 00:15:57.500 I prefer because I can see the power of what 00:15:57.500 --> 00:16:00.679 happens in that three days. Yeah. Because my 00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:02.539 goal is always let me help you heal and get on 00:16:02.539 --> 00:16:05.480 with your life instead of being trapped, going 00:16:05.480 --> 00:16:09.220 to appointments once or twice a week. Yeah. It's 00:16:09.220 --> 00:16:11.200 more about though, the focus is on how do we 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:13.139 get to the root? So dealing with those attachment 00:16:13.139 --> 00:16:16.399 wounds. But a lot of people do end up transferring 00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:19.039 into, transitioning into doing some intensives 00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:23.960 because they see the power in it right um have 00:16:23.960 --> 00:16:26.139 you always been kind of like entrepreneur minded 00:16:26.139 --> 00:16:32.259 no no so i was a bedside nurse and an nmp for 00:16:32.259 --> 00:16:38.190 over 30 years this was never my plan like how 00:16:38.190 --> 00:16:40.470 much okay because this is a lot of these episodes 00:16:40.470 --> 00:16:42.450 people do want to know like the entrepreneur 00:16:42.450 --> 00:16:45.230 like behind the scenes type stuff how much money 00:16:45.230 --> 00:16:47.129 did you spend do you remember setting up your 00:16:47.129 --> 00:16:50.429 private practice i don't i didn't spend a lot 00:16:50.429 --> 00:16:56.909 of money honestly i i had i paid like fiverr 00:16:56.909 --> 00:17:00.450 or one of those websites to do my website i was 00:17:00.450 --> 00:17:02.649 running an office so that was that was my biggest 00:17:02.649 --> 00:17:07.480 expense um i take cash so I didn't pay for anybody 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:11.059 to get me credentialed. It really, it wasn't 00:17:11.059 --> 00:17:12.940 that expensive. Like getting my logo I did on 00:17:12.940 --> 00:17:16.559 Fiverr, having to get all like, you know, I checked 00:17:16.559 --> 00:17:18.160 with an attorney, those things you got to pay 00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:22.059 for, but less than $5 ,000, I'm sure. Yeah. Okay. 00:17:22.380 --> 00:17:25.400 Okay. And it sounds like now the direct patient 00:17:25.400 --> 00:17:27.940 care that you're doing is, is those probably 00:17:27.940 --> 00:17:29.700 like nine days a month when you're doing those 00:17:29.700 --> 00:17:37.690 intensives. Yeah. Tell us more about like beyond 00:17:37.690 --> 00:17:40.029 the script and why you founded that, what it 00:17:40.029 --> 00:17:43.970 is, and also about your conference. I'm really 00:17:43.970 --> 00:17:46.589 excited about your conference. I'm going to be 00:17:46.589 --> 00:17:49.829 speaking on dialectical behavior therapy. Very 00:17:49.829 --> 00:17:53.450 excited. And it's it feels like it's really the 00:17:53.450 --> 00:17:57.809 first of its kind, you know, as far as just psych 00:17:57.809 --> 00:18:00.049 and peace kind of doing things. As far as I know. 00:18:00.890 --> 00:18:03.240 Challenging the norm. Yeah, as far as I know, 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:05.920 too. And there's going to be a lot of like really 00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:08.900 cool people there. I'm really excited about that. 00:18:08.940 --> 00:18:14.339 Like Alison Sikorsky, hopefully, and Debbie Granik 00:18:14.339 --> 00:18:17.220 and just some great thoughts. Kathleen Wheeler. 00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:19.619 Kathleen Wheeler. I was going to ask you, how 00:18:19.619 --> 00:18:21.740 did you like become acquainted with Kathleen 00:18:21.740 --> 00:18:24.400 Wheeler? Just because I'm nosy. You know, when 00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:27.640 I started all this, well, when I started PMH 00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:29.339 &P's Beyond Meds, which is the free Facebook 00:18:29.339 --> 00:18:32.920 group. I did it just with the intention of wanting 00:18:32.920 --> 00:18:34.740 to meet other people because I thought, surely 00:18:34.740 --> 00:18:36.240 there's got to be some other second piece who 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:39.640 think like I do. And what ended up happening 00:18:39.640 --> 00:18:42.039 is I had people join who wanted to learn therapy. 00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:46.180 And I was like, oh, let me reach out to Dr. Wheeler 00:18:46.180 --> 00:18:48.759 and just see if she responds. Because in my mind 00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:50.440 at the time, it was like, Dr. Wheeler and I should 00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:53.980 create a course where people can learn. And so, 00:18:54.039 --> 00:18:56.259 I mean, it's been like four or five years ago 00:18:56.259 --> 00:19:00.450 I reached out to her. It's online. She was a 00:19:00.450 --> 00:19:03.509 professor at a college. So I went and found, 00:19:03.569 --> 00:19:06.849 I stalked her. Yeah. Like I did with Dr. Carla. 00:19:06.990 --> 00:19:12.190 Yeah. Fair. Yeah. And then we just got talking 00:19:12.190 --> 00:19:14.470 and we are a kindred spirit when it comes to 00:19:14.470 --> 00:19:18.589 our viewpoint in working with mental health and 00:19:18.589 --> 00:19:20.950 the underlying, you have to pay attention to 00:19:20.950 --> 00:19:23.450 neurobiology and the root beneath what you're 00:19:23.450 --> 00:19:26.599 treating. And so she, you know, God bless her, 00:19:26.619 --> 00:19:29.119 has been a big supporter. She went on the days 00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:30.960 that I doubt myself. She's like, keep going, 00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:35.019 don't stop. And she, you know, I didn't even, 00:19:35.079 --> 00:19:38.339 when this whole conference brainchild came to 00:19:38.339 --> 00:19:40.539 me, I talked to her the next day and she's like, 00:19:40.619 --> 00:19:45.539 I'll be there. And she's coming. Yeah. How did 00:19:45.539 --> 00:19:50.400 the conference like hit you? Like, how did you 00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:55.500 ideate that? Like most things I do. That happened 00:19:55.500 --> 00:19:57.420 about four o 'clock in the morning. I was sound 00:19:57.420 --> 00:20:01.099 asleep. And in my mind, I was like, this has 00:20:01.099 --> 00:20:05.039 to happen. Beyond meds got up to 35. Well, I 00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:07.019 think there's 3 ,300 people in there now. And 00:20:07.019 --> 00:20:10.079 I was having so many people reach out to me behind 00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:12.400 the scenes. And here's the sad thing. This drives 00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:14.799 me nuts. I think it's embarrassing for psych 00:20:14.799 --> 00:20:18.480 MPs to say they want to do therapy. Like that 00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:22.299 whole stay in your lane thing is so loud. And 00:20:22.299 --> 00:20:24.599 there's even other psych MPs that kind of shame 00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:27.039 people out of doing therapy and say you're not 00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:31.000 skilled to do it. But the reality is it's part 00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:33.599 of the scope of what we do. And just like anything, 00:20:33.799 --> 00:20:36.119 if you're trained, if you continue to take classes, 00:20:36.279 --> 00:20:39.119 you're going to get better. And even what I do, 00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:43.559 therapists don't learn that in school. The modalities 00:20:43.559 --> 00:20:45.900 I use are not taught in school. They get general 00:20:45.900 --> 00:20:48.319 training just like we do. And then it's kind 00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:51.630 of on us to go and get further education. Make 00:20:51.630 --> 00:20:55.150 sure we're doing it well. Right. And so I was 00:20:55.150 --> 00:20:57.049 just like, we need to stop listening to the naysayers. 00:20:57.049 --> 00:21:01.410 And there is a huge shift happening. And I think 00:21:01.410 --> 00:21:04.170 it's pretty freaking amazing. And I'm excited 00:21:04.170 --> 00:21:08.549 to see it because the me of 46 years old wished 00:21:08.549 --> 00:21:13.170 desperately she had a me back then. And I'm glad 00:21:13.170 --> 00:21:14.650 to see there's so many other people now that 00:21:14.650 --> 00:21:18.700 get it. Yeah, absolutely. It's really cool. um 00:21:18.700 --> 00:21:23.700 so the conference what are the dates october 00:21:23.700 --> 00:21:27.380 14th through the 17th 2026 in orlando florida 00:21:27.380 --> 00:21:31.980 okay perfect perfect and there's still tickets 00:21:31.980 --> 00:21:36.779 available correct there are okay cool we'll put 00:21:36.779 --> 00:21:38.559 the link it's exciting though to see people are 00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:41.819 excited and yeah as soon as i put it out there 00:21:41.819 --> 00:21:44.759 you can feel the excitement of it yeah we have 00:21:44.759 --> 00:21:47.339 great speakers you know even the speakers I'm 00:21:47.339 --> 00:21:49.000 just so thrilled the people that came to me and 00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:51.279 said, I need to be part of this. And they're 00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:54.980 so excited. And we're building something really 00:21:54.980 --> 00:21:57.140 special. This isn't just sit and get talked about 00:21:57.140 --> 00:22:00.099 all day. This is let's make it experiential and 00:22:00.099 --> 00:22:03.400 connect with each other as well as learn. Yeah. 00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:07.940 Your heart's in it. And it's not just like another 00:22:07.940 --> 00:22:11.640 pharma -sponsored kind of event type thing. And 00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:15.990 again, not because I'm anti -meds. I'm just pro 00:22:15.990 --> 00:22:19.210 let's heal and move forward. Yeah. Yeah. And 00:22:19.210 --> 00:22:22.049 I think that's good to also, yeah, be explicit 00:22:22.049 --> 00:22:28.089 about. I love that. I love that. So what advice 00:22:28.089 --> 00:22:31.670 do you have for new psych and peace in 2026? 00:22:31.769 --> 00:22:34.390 Because there's a lot of new people graduating 00:22:34.390 --> 00:22:39.089 right now. Well, I think the biggest thing is 00:22:39.089 --> 00:22:41.809 just be true to who you are. And I, you know, 00:22:41.809 --> 00:22:44.230 I have found even now for. As long as I've been 00:22:44.230 --> 00:22:46.289 doing this, I can have a lot of self -doubt creep 00:22:46.289 --> 00:22:48.670 in. If I just read one comment by another psych 00:22:48.670 --> 00:22:52.569 MP who's judgy or it doesn't align with what 00:22:52.569 --> 00:22:55.349 I'm doing, I start to doubt myself. And I think 00:22:55.349 --> 00:22:59.309 the biggest thing is knowing yourself and what 00:22:59.309 --> 00:23:01.670 you want out of the practice that you have and 00:23:01.670 --> 00:23:03.769 you're doing, and then surround yourself with 00:23:03.769 --> 00:23:06.170 people who align with that. And if something 00:23:06.170 --> 00:23:07.789 doesn't feel right, find a different mentor, 00:23:07.890 --> 00:23:11.509 but find mentors that will support you. so that 00:23:11.509 --> 00:23:13.450 you can be the best psych MP that you want to 00:23:13.450 --> 00:23:15.390 do and there's no shame and like if you're someone 00:23:15.390 --> 00:23:18.150 who wants to be primarily a prescriber that's 00:23:18.150 --> 00:23:20.950 okay find someone who that's their wheelhouse 00:23:20.950 --> 00:23:23.450 and learn from them if you're someone who wants 00:23:23.450 --> 00:23:25.670 to combine both and there's so many people and 00:23:25.670 --> 00:23:27.329 I this is the main thing I've learned over the 00:23:27.329 --> 00:23:29.529 last couple years is there really are a lot of 00:23:29.529 --> 00:23:31.349 different psych MPs out there doing different 00:23:31.349 --> 00:23:33.369 things we just have to be willing to try to find 00:23:33.369 --> 00:23:36.890 them and put ourselves out there yeah it's true 00:23:36.890 --> 00:23:38.970 yeah I just interviewed a great psych MP yesterday 00:23:38.970 --> 00:23:41.640 who's like I don't I don't want to be doing therapy. 00:23:41.700 --> 00:23:45.059 I do 15 minute med checks and I love it. You 00:23:45.059 --> 00:23:46.460 know, and I thought that was cool that she was 00:23:46.460 --> 00:23:48.619 like and she's like, I know maybe it's not popular. 00:23:48.779 --> 00:23:51.920 It's like every everybody that has their different 00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:54.720 beliefs and convictions. But and we all have 00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:57.220 talents. Right. And, you know, when I have clients 00:23:57.220 --> 00:24:00.039 who call me who want medications, I have my list 00:24:00.039 --> 00:24:02.339 of PMH and P's that I send them to because I 00:24:02.339 --> 00:24:04.339 am grateful that I know the second piece and 00:24:04.339 --> 00:24:07.410 I know how they practice. What I love about them 00:24:07.410 --> 00:24:09.829 is they understand, yes, we're going to give 00:24:09.829 --> 00:24:13.170 you medication to help you. But also, if you 00:24:13.170 --> 00:24:15.630 really want to get doing better, we got to work 00:24:15.630 --> 00:24:17.990 with what's underneath of it as well. Yeah. OK, 00:24:18.109 --> 00:24:20.750 so you don't do med management in your practice. 00:24:21.309 --> 00:24:23.569 No, I did for a while, but I kind of got to where 00:24:23.569 --> 00:24:27.549 I felt like. I don't know, I didn't want to be 00:24:27.549 --> 00:24:29.410 like the jack of all trades and master of none. 00:24:29.549 --> 00:24:31.950 I wanted to be really good at what I was doing 00:24:31.950 --> 00:24:36.190 and. I see such amazing shifts in my clients 00:24:36.190 --> 00:24:39.529 that I just put my heart and soul into this because, 00:24:39.630 --> 00:24:41.589 you know, in the end, that's my ultimate goal. 00:24:42.250 --> 00:24:45.089 Yeah. Yeah. You really care about it. How many 00:24:45.089 --> 00:24:48.049 sources of income or businesses do you have? 00:24:49.529 --> 00:24:54.009 Well, technically, I have two LLCs. Okay. But 00:24:54.009 --> 00:24:56.950 I have. So the Beyond the Script Society has 00:24:56.950 --> 00:25:00.349 a paid membership. And then I have my practice. 00:25:01.190 --> 00:25:03.589 We have the conference going on now. I have some 00:25:03.589 --> 00:25:06.509 courses. I have my fellowship. So, you know, 00:25:06.509 --> 00:25:08.549 and it's really interesting because, again, I'd 00:25:08.549 --> 00:25:10.589 never set out to be an entrepreneur. Like I don't 00:25:10.589 --> 00:25:14.170 even when I hear the word, I don't even feel 00:25:14.170 --> 00:25:17.529 like I fit in that category. I'm just I create 00:25:17.529 --> 00:25:20.650 things as I feel like people need them or they 00:25:20.650 --> 00:25:22.569 reach out to me and they say, hey, where can 00:25:22.569 --> 00:25:24.069 we find this? I'm like, well, I don't know. Here, 00:25:24.109 --> 00:25:27.569 let me make it. Let's do it. Yeah, because you 00:25:27.569 --> 00:25:29.950 just you just went and were you a speaker on 00:25:29.950 --> 00:25:32.869 Nurse Blake's? Crucial. Nurse Conancy. Yeah. 00:25:33.170 --> 00:25:35.809 How did that come about? Like, and you get paid 00:25:35.809 --> 00:25:38.710 to speak at conferences too. That's also really 00:25:38.710 --> 00:25:41.029 cool. Like how, how will these things happen? 00:25:41.049 --> 00:25:43.230 Just again, I guess you responding to things 00:25:43.230 --> 00:25:47.210 and then. Well, it's a couple of things. It's 00:25:47.210 --> 00:25:48.890 saying yes to a lot of things, right? If somebody 00:25:48.890 --> 00:25:50.630 asked me to be on a podcast, I'm going to show 00:25:50.630 --> 00:25:53.450 up. It's being authentically me. I think like, 00:25:53.490 --> 00:25:56.529 I just, I'm just open to whatever comes to me. 00:25:56.809 --> 00:25:59.730 And I've done a lot of public speaking. So a 00:25:59.730 --> 00:26:02.170 lot of stuff kind of like, If one person hears 00:26:02.170 --> 00:26:03.690 me at something, then they might reach out to 00:26:03.690 --> 00:26:05.029 me and say, hey, can you come do this thing? 00:26:05.109 --> 00:26:06.849 And that's kind of what happened with Nurse Blake, 00:26:06.890 --> 00:26:10.230 where the woman that was running his education 00:26:10.230 --> 00:26:12.990 had seen me do something else. And she was like, 00:26:13.029 --> 00:26:14.470 oh, my gosh, we need you to be part of this. 00:26:14.609 --> 00:26:17.970 And so they reached out. And yeah, I have another 00:26:17.970 --> 00:26:20.349 thing I do. I speak around the country for a 00:26:20.349 --> 00:26:23.930 wounded veterans group. But again, it happened 00:26:23.930 --> 00:26:25.690 because someone who had seen me speak somewhere 00:26:25.690 --> 00:26:27.589 else was like, oh, we'd love you to come do this. 00:26:27.809 --> 00:26:31.819 So it's just. Yeah. Do you enjoy public speaking? 00:26:33.059 --> 00:26:35.460 I do actually. Like it doesn't, I don't know. 00:26:35.500 --> 00:26:38.880 It's funny. When I left for a nurse con, my son 00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:40.799 -in -law who was new to the family, he's like, 00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:42.619 aren't you scared to death? And I was like, it 00:26:42.619 --> 00:26:45.819 doesn't, it doesn't rattle me at all. And I can't 00:26:45.819 --> 00:26:47.980 tell you why I just love doing it. I love the 00:26:47.980 --> 00:26:51.400 interaction and well, I love aha movements and 00:26:51.400 --> 00:26:53.900 that's the thing. And when they happen, whether 00:26:53.900 --> 00:26:56.380 it's one -on -one with a client or in the audience 00:26:56.380 --> 00:26:58.619 where we can just get real with each other and. 00:26:59.099 --> 00:27:02.859 People can feel seen and heard and learn. I love 00:27:02.859 --> 00:27:04.940 doing that. And I love interacting with people. 00:27:05.599 --> 00:27:09.119 Yeah, absolutely. What brings you the most joy 00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:12.480 right now and kind of what you're doing in your 00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:18.559 day to day? Business wise? Yeah, sure. Business 00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:22.599 wise. Yeah. I'm really enjoying this conference. 00:27:25.299 --> 00:27:29.720 It's given me a new sense of energy because when 00:27:29.720 --> 00:27:32.720 I woke up with this brainchild, I was like, I 00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:34.759 don't know. People may not buy into this. It 00:27:34.759 --> 00:27:37.000 may not even fly. When I went and I signed the 00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:39.119 contract, I hadn't even talked to potential speakers. 00:27:39.220 --> 00:27:41.000 And I signed this massive contract with the hotel. 00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:43.980 And I was like, what the heck am I doing? And 00:27:43.980 --> 00:27:46.240 to see, I mean, I'm still having people reach 00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:47.579 out to me and say, hey, I heard about this. I 00:27:47.579 --> 00:27:49.019 want to be part of it. Now I have to tell people, 00:27:49.059 --> 00:27:52.859 no, because there's just like, we need more days 00:27:52.859 --> 00:27:56.930 if we're going to do that. Maybe next year. It's 00:27:56.930 --> 00:28:00.269 pretty special. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I totally 00:28:00.269 --> 00:28:02.789 know what you mean, because I'm planning an in 00:28:02.789 --> 00:28:05.769 -person intensive as part of my fellowship right 00:28:05.769 --> 00:28:08.930 now. And it just like it lights me up to even 00:28:08.930 --> 00:28:11.450 though I'm still learning and I'm not an expert 00:28:11.450 --> 00:28:13.170 on in -person events. I'm like, this is going 00:28:13.170 --> 00:28:15.869 to be really special to connect, you know, in 00:28:15.869 --> 00:28:18.230 person. I think we all kind of are craving more 00:28:18.230 --> 00:28:21.269 of that in -person connection with other psych 00:28:21.269 --> 00:28:24.109 NPs and like minded people. I hope so, because 00:28:24.109 --> 00:28:25.589 I've had a lot of people reach out and say, are 00:28:25.589 --> 00:28:28.029 you going to stream this conference? And the 00:28:28.029 --> 00:28:30.130 answer is no, this year I'm not. It's just another 00:28:30.130 --> 00:28:31.869 expense that I don't want to add to it. But also, 00:28:31.970 --> 00:28:33.970 I think it's important to be in the room together. 00:28:34.509 --> 00:28:37.230 And you're more present if you're not behind 00:28:37.230 --> 00:28:39.910 a screen and having all the distractions around 00:28:39.910 --> 00:28:44.549 you. Yeah, that's very true. Have you invested 00:28:44.549 --> 00:28:48.369 in much in the way of like coaching programs 00:28:48.369 --> 00:28:52.349 and continuing ed and resources? Oh, my gosh. 00:28:53.099 --> 00:28:55.000 I can't even tell you how many thousands of dollars. 00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:57.480 I guess that's my biggest expense, how much I've 00:28:57.480 --> 00:29:01.559 invested in getting my own help. Yeah. How have 00:29:01.559 --> 00:29:04.420 you sought those people out? Like who to learn 00:29:04.420 --> 00:29:07.819 from, I guess, and what programs to do? Since 00:29:07.819 --> 00:29:13.799 my own healing and returning to myself, I really 00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:17.200 pay attention to who I feel like aligns with 00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:21.950 what I feel like I want to be doing. matches 00:29:21.950 --> 00:29:24.549 the mission of what I have for me. And so I always 00:29:24.549 --> 00:29:27.390 ask before I make any decisions anymore, is this 00:29:27.390 --> 00:29:29.730 in alignment with where I think I need to be 00:29:29.730 --> 00:29:34.829 going? And so I do a lot of checking people out 00:29:34.829 --> 00:29:39.690 before I will do anything with them. And I don't 00:29:39.690 --> 00:29:41.009 know, just kind of getting to know them before 00:29:41.009 --> 00:29:43.730 I commit to anything. Yeah. Kind of using your 00:29:43.730 --> 00:29:48.130 wise mind. Yeah. Smart. Which when you're bringing 00:29:48.130 --> 00:29:49.990 a lot of old stuff forward with you, we don't 00:29:49.990 --> 00:29:53.309 often do that. And we shut down our intuition 00:29:53.309 --> 00:29:55.549 and we shut down our inner voice. It says, maybe 00:29:55.549 --> 00:29:57.210 this isn't right for me. But then the part of 00:29:57.210 --> 00:29:59.269 us that's afraid to say no or or doesn't like 00:29:59.269 --> 00:30:03.950 conflict will say yes. But so I'm very careful 00:30:03.950 --> 00:30:07.049 with my yeses these days. And let me think about 00:30:07.049 --> 00:30:09.289 it is my favorite phrase. So when I am asked 00:30:09.289 --> 00:30:12.750 yesterday, I was invited to be a VIP at the Jingle 00:30:12.750 --> 00:30:15.549 Ball in New York City in December. And when I 00:30:15.549 --> 00:30:18.869 was invited at first, I was really excited. And 00:30:18.869 --> 00:30:20.170 I was like, oh, yeah, I'm going to do this. But 00:30:20.170 --> 00:30:22.269 then as I sat with it last night, I was like, 00:30:22.289 --> 00:30:26.109 it's really not something that's fitting into 00:30:26.109 --> 00:30:28.190 my schedule that great this year. And so I need 00:30:28.190 --> 00:30:31.089 to say no. But in the past, I've been like, yeah, 00:30:31.130 --> 00:30:32.569 I'll get there and I'll figure out how to make 00:30:32.569 --> 00:30:34.349 it. And I would have drove myself nuts in my 00:30:34.349 --> 00:30:39.049 schedule. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like you've 00:30:39.049 --> 00:30:42.829 built, you know, quite a personal brand for yourself, 00:30:42.910 --> 00:30:45.509 but you didn't set out like going, I'm going 00:30:45.509 --> 00:30:47.950 to build a personal brand for myself. No. No, 00:30:47.950 --> 00:30:51.089 I know. I still like, it's weird. I don't even 00:30:51.089 --> 00:30:56.670 see it that way. I just. Public facing and yeah, 00:30:56.670 --> 00:31:00.009 it's, it's interesting how it's just like you 00:31:00.009 --> 00:31:02.109 being opened opportunities has kind of led to 00:31:02.109 --> 00:31:06.069 that. Right. More than anything. I think it's 00:31:06.069 --> 00:31:10.390 just, I'm me. Like I just, let's just have a 00:31:10.390 --> 00:31:13.049 conversation. You know, I honestly feel like 00:31:13.049 --> 00:31:16.559 at the root of everything we're doing. The biggest 00:31:16.559 --> 00:31:19.720 thing that's missing is just connection and kindness. 00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:23.599 Even when I think back to my days of therapy, 00:31:23.819 --> 00:31:26.059 the times that that therapist looked at me because 00:31:26.059 --> 00:31:28.539 I was very dysregulated and not doing well and 00:31:28.539 --> 00:31:30.240 didn't do well with EMDR. And she would look 00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:32.259 at me and say, you just aren't stable enough 00:31:32.259 --> 00:31:33.759 for this. You just don't have the skills for 00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:35.960 this. And it was all judgy. And I don't think 00:31:35.960 --> 00:31:40.160 she meant to be that way. But if just once I 00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:42.579 had heard this just doesn't seem to be working 00:31:42.579 --> 00:31:45.519 for you, let's figure out something else. I think 00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:49.099 that would have had a major impact and just taking 00:31:49.099 --> 00:31:52.400 a step back and saying, okay, let's acknowledge 00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:55.779 most people really do know inside them what they 00:31:55.779 --> 00:31:58.880 need. Even when my clients come and they're like, 00:31:58.900 --> 00:32:00.099 you know, they're all over the place and they 00:32:00.099 --> 00:32:02.140 don't, they've been struggling for years and 00:32:02.140 --> 00:32:04.200 I just have them get quiet and settle down. And 00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:06.319 okay, I promise you everything you need is right 00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:08.099 inside of you. You just need me to help guide 00:32:08.099 --> 00:32:11.759 you there, but you've got it. We really do have 00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:15.359 it. And I think. that's what drives me is just 00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:17.839 let's be kind and connect with one another and 00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:21.660 be human. And then I think that could be just 00:32:21.660 --> 00:32:24.920 that alone is so healing. Yeah. A hundred percent. 00:32:25.259 --> 00:32:29.480 That's a great point. That's a great point. Anything 00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:32.500 else that you think that psych and P's who are 00:32:32.500 --> 00:32:36.460 kind of like pushing the boundaries of what we 00:32:36.460 --> 00:32:40.480 doing, what we feel we're expected to do any 00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:42.900 other advice for those people? Cause there are. 00:32:43.210 --> 00:32:46.309 quite a few people out there like that who are 00:32:46.309 --> 00:32:50.549 challenging the norms. I think you need to surround 00:32:50.549 --> 00:32:54.269 yourself with come to BeyondMeds, join us there, 00:32:54.410 --> 00:32:57.609 find other psych MPs that are like -minded like 00:32:57.609 --> 00:33:01.869 that, because it is easy to have the naysayers 00:33:01.869 --> 00:33:04.910 make you doubt yourself. And, you know, unfortunately, 00:33:05.009 --> 00:33:07.950 this can be a very isolating job, right? Like 00:33:07.950 --> 00:33:11.220 my business, I'm a business of one. And so when 00:33:11.220 --> 00:33:13.440 I'm sitting here for hours on end creating things 00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:15.299 on the computer and then I get in my head and 00:33:15.299 --> 00:33:18.180 then suddenly I'll get a call from someone like 00:33:18.180 --> 00:33:20.480 you or someone else who reminds me, oh, that's 00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:22.599 why I'm doing this. But we have to be really 00:33:22.599 --> 00:33:24.519 intentional about what surround ourselves with 00:33:24.519 --> 00:33:27.519 people who are in alignment with what we feel 00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:29.119 and what we want to be doing and how we feel 00:33:29.119 --> 00:33:32.359 called. While, you know, obviously we need to 00:33:32.359 --> 00:33:35.619 know what's within our scope. Yeah. But this 00:33:35.619 --> 00:33:38.480 certainly is. Yeah, that's that's good advice, 00:33:38.579 --> 00:33:40.839 though, because I do think a lot of us can resonate 00:33:40.839 --> 00:33:44.099 with the overthinking and the self -doubt. And 00:33:44.099 --> 00:33:49.339 it happens when we're new practitioners. It happens 00:33:49.339 --> 00:33:52.279 when we're doing anything new, really. Right. 00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:55.299 And I think it is so powerful to, like, connect 00:33:55.299 --> 00:33:58.980 with other people in those moments to just feel 00:33:58.980 --> 00:34:01.579 seen and be like, it's OK. You know, I don't 00:34:01.579 --> 00:34:04.539 have to. Especially people. I had somebody call 00:34:04.539 --> 00:34:08.429 me last week who. She sent me an email first 00:34:08.429 --> 00:34:09.610 and I was like, we got to get them all together 00:34:09.610 --> 00:34:13.170 because she wanted to become a psych MP. She 00:34:13.170 --> 00:34:15.650 was an FMP because she wanted to start providing 00:34:15.650 --> 00:34:21.070 therapy. And her professor in her psych MP program 00:34:21.070 --> 00:34:24.710 told her she has no business doing therapy. So 00:34:24.710 --> 00:34:26.409 she reached out to me because she's like, I had 00:34:26.409 --> 00:34:27.829 heard about you and I know that you're doing 00:34:27.829 --> 00:34:29.550 it. So did you go back and get your therapy degree? 00:34:29.750 --> 00:34:32.070 And I was like, why is a professor telling you 00:34:32.070 --> 00:34:35.530 this? Yeah. So I sent her the APNA statement. 00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:39.559 And I, you know, I was like, read the Scope and 00:34:39.559 --> 00:34:42.880 Standards of Practice book and find a different 00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:47.699 professor. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Well, that's cool, 00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:51.679 though, that they seek you out. Yeah, I've had 00:34:51.679 --> 00:34:54.099 a fear of public speaking for a while, you know, 00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:57.059 so. But we're fixing that. Doing this in -person 00:34:57.059 --> 00:34:59.420 conference. I told the people in my fellowship 00:34:59.420 --> 00:35:02.559 this. They loved it. I did have a brief period 00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:05.019 where I was like, how can I get out of this? 00:35:05.099 --> 00:35:06.119 I don't think I'm going to go to the conference. 00:35:06.269 --> 00:35:10.250 What do I tell Tracy? I do it. I was like, where 00:35:10.250 --> 00:35:13.030 does not my favorite state and no offense, but 00:35:13.030 --> 00:35:16.230 like I was coming up with reasons why, you know 00:35:16.230 --> 00:35:17.510 what I mean? And then I'm like, oh, I know what 00:35:17.510 --> 00:35:22.349 I'm doing. I see it. Okay. You know, so. What's 00:35:22.349 --> 00:35:24.110 the worst thing that's going to happen? Yeah, 00:35:24.210 --> 00:35:27.590 I think it's, it's, it's good. Challenging, challenging 00:35:27.590 --> 00:35:29.590 myself outside my comfort zone has kind of been 00:35:29.590 --> 00:35:31.070 the name of the game the last couple of years. 00:35:31.829 --> 00:35:33.750 It's been good. Yeah. And so what happens? You 00:35:33.750 --> 00:35:35.900 grow, right? And you. Yeah. The more you do it, 00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:38.239 the more comfortable you get. Yeah, exactly. 00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:42.800 Exactly. I ask all of my podcast guests at the 00:35:42.800 --> 00:35:46.380 end, what does the term no prior off mean to 00:35:46.380 --> 00:35:51.559 you? Man, I think I've lived that now. Being 00:35:51.559 --> 00:35:55.480 self -employed, having no, I actually just said 00:35:55.480 --> 00:35:58.119 this on the nurse blade cruise. Nobody tells 00:35:58.119 --> 00:36:00.320 me what to think or say now, right? I don't have 00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:02.940 to worry about getting fired. My boss approves 00:36:02.940 --> 00:36:07.030 everything I say. And so I don't need prior off 00:36:07.030 --> 00:36:11.230 for anything. You know, I do need to watch what 00:36:11.230 --> 00:36:13.250 I say sometimes, because if I wanted to be really 00:36:13.250 --> 00:36:14.829 real about some of the things, I think it might 00:36:14.829 --> 00:36:18.309 challenge the status quo a bit too much. But 00:36:18.309 --> 00:36:21.469 in the end, I think it's just I bring it back 00:36:21.469 --> 00:36:23.309 to being in alignment with ourselves and feeling 00:36:23.309 --> 00:36:27.570 like it's OK to speak. Yeah. Yeah. And do what 00:36:27.570 --> 00:36:31.289 we know what we're called to do. Yeah. It is 00:36:31.289 --> 00:36:35.489 liberating when you feel like. You are not answering 00:36:35.489 --> 00:36:38.989 to this corporate organization or, you know, 00:36:38.989 --> 00:36:41.329 you feel like you can just kind of be yourself 00:36:41.329 --> 00:36:42.909 and what's the worst that's going to happen. 00:36:43.050 --> 00:36:47.110 You know what I mean? Exactly. Yeah. Well, I 00:36:47.110 --> 00:36:50.829 don't like what you say. Yeah. Right. You're 00:36:50.829 --> 00:36:53.849 inspiring a lot of people and it'll be great 00:36:53.849 --> 00:36:56.590 to meet in person in October. And yeah, grab 00:36:56.590 --> 00:36:59.809 your spot, guys. If you want some really high 00:36:59.809 --> 00:37:05.480 quality in person. connection and learning. So 00:37:05.480 --> 00:37:08.559 thanks for being on Tracy and would love to have 00:37:08.559 --> 00:37:10.880 you back for another episode down the line. Thanks 00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:11.460 for having me.