WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.040 I started a job with a clinic in Colorado Springs. 00:00:03.180 --> 00:00:06.099 I was a nurse practitioner there for seeing patients. 00:00:06.240 --> 00:00:08.679 That was my primary role for about 18 months. 00:00:08.880 --> 00:00:10.960 And then at that point I was offered a clinic 00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:13.779 director position and I was able to, yeah, it 00:00:13.779 --> 00:00:16.519 was awesome. My startup costs like initially 00:00:16.519 --> 00:00:21.460 probably around two or $3 ,000. What kinds of 00:00:21.460 --> 00:00:25.179 things does she do for you? Everything. I at 00:00:25.179 --> 00:00:28.739 least am putting force. On average, probably 00:00:28.739 --> 00:00:32.140 about five to seven hours a week. I think that 00:00:32.140 --> 00:00:35.520 that's what is the building block of wanting 00:00:35.520 --> 00:00:39.340 to own a private practice. Welcome to No Prior 00:00:39.340 --> 00:00:42.020 Off. My guest today is Robin Goldsmith, a psychiatric 00:00:42.020 --> 00:00:44.340 mental health nurse practitioner and the founder 00:00:44.340 --> 00:00:47.500 of Agape Psychiatric Care. Robin's been in practice 00:00:47.500 --> 00:00:50.100 for about 12 years. She got into this work back 00:00:50.100 --> 00:00:52.659 in 2014 after spotting the gaps and how people 00:00:52.659 --> 00:00:54.880 were actually getting mental health care, and 00:00:54.880 --> 00:00:57.039 she's been building around those gaps ever since. 00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:00.479 Agape is a mostly virtual practice with three 00:01:00.479 --> 00:01:02.579 physical offices spread across the Southwest 00:01:02.579 --> 00:01:04.900 so her team can prescribe controlled substances 00:01:04.900 --> 00:01:08.719 and still meet DEA requirements. It's her plus 00:01:08.719 --> 00:01:10.599 three other nurse practitioners treating anxiety, 00:01:10.939 --> 00:01:15.900 depression, ADHD, PTSD, OCD, the usual, but with 00:01:15.900 --> 00:01:18.799 a functional medicine lens. She uses labs to 00:01:18.799 --> 00:01:21.620 rule things out that often get missed like thyroid, 00:01:21.959 --> 00:01:25.700 hormones, nutrient gaps, metabolics. Her philosophy 00:01:25.700 --> 00:01:28.780 is no stigma, just understanding. What I really 00:01:28.780 --> 00:01:31.340 wanted to dig into today is how she built this, 00:01:31.400 --> 00:01:34.260 a hybrid psych and pee practice with a real team 00:01:34.260 --> 00:01:37.810 using a hybrid model, and the physical offices 00:01:37.810 --> 00:01:40.189 as the compliance layer, not the other way around. 00:01:40.450 --> 00:01:42.750 Robin, welcome in. Thank you so much for having 00:01:42.750 --> 00:01:45.109 me. I'm so excited to be here and just kind of 00:01:45.109 --> 00:01:47.849 share a little bit about my story. We are so 00:01:47.849 --> 00:01:50.849 excited that you're here. So you were born and 00:01:50.849 --> 00:01:54.409 raised in Arizona, correct? Yeah. Yeah, I was 00:01:54.409 --> 00:01:58.209 born and raised in Arizona and got married at 00:01:58.209 --> 00:02:00.609 a young age and my husband joined the military 00:02:00.609 --> 00:02:03.969 and we kind of built our life around the military 00:02:03.969 --> 00:02:08.250 lifestyle. So you've moved around a lot. Yeah. 00:02:08.330 --> 00:02:12.229 Oh, yeah. We actually got stationed in Arizona, 00:02:12.449 --> 00:02:15.310 our first duty station. So from Pine Top Lakeside, 00:02:15.310 --> 00:02:18.789 Cholo area. And we then got stationed at Davis 00:02:18.789 --> 00:02:20.629 -Monthan. We were in Tucson for about six years. 00:02:21.150 --> 00:02:23.830 We had our son and then we moved to Texas for 00:02:23.830 --> 00:02:27.030 four years. And then from there, we went to Colorado 00:02:27.030 --> 00:02:29.229 and we were there for about seven years. And 00:02:29.229 --> 00:02:31.050 then we went to, we're now in South Georgia. 00:02:31.659 --> 00:02:34.500 South Georgia. Oh, wow. Okay. You have moved 00:02:34.500 --> 00:02:38.219 around quite a bit. Yeah. What made you decide 00:02:38.219 --> 00:02:41.300 to get into mental health and become a psychiatric 00:02:41.300 --> 00:02:43.759 nurse practitioner? Honestly, it was just the 00:02:43.759 --> 00:02:46.900 gap in care. I saw it in my husband's career 00:02:46.900 --> 00:02:50.340 field. He used security forces in the Air Force. 00:02:50.500 --> 00:02:53.379 And so we just saw like, and I think it really 00:02:53.379 --> 00:02:55.939 has improved, honestly, over the course of time. 00:02:56.000 --> 00:02:58.460 I think pre -COVID, it wasn't as widely talked 00:02:58.460 --> 00:03:00.860 about post -COVID. We see that there's a lot 00:03:00.860 --> 00:03:04.099 more communication going on in the military installations. 00:03:04.180 --> 00:03:06.979 But that was a big push for me to get into the 00:03:06.979 --> 00:03:11.439 mental health space and realm. Yeah, absolutely. 00:03:11.599 --> 00:03:16.879 That makes sense. So how do you feel about starting 00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:19.280 into private practice as a new grad psych NP 00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:21.960 versus like getting experience? And what was 00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:27.310 your experience? Yeah. Yeah. I graduated from 00:03:27.310 --> 00:03:30.849 Second Peace School in May of 2020. So I got 00:03:30.849 --> 00:03:34.849 kicked into. crazy, you know, changes and just 00:03:34.849 --> 00:03:37.590 our world was upside down. Right. So telehealth 00:03:37.590 --> 00:03:39.969 was just starting to come out. I started a job 00:03:39.969 --> 00:03:43.469 with a clinic in Colorado Springs. I was a nurse 00:03:43.469 --> 00:03:45.409 practitioner there for just, you know, seeing 00:03:45.409 --> 00:03:48.009 patients. That was my primary role for about 00:03:48.009 --> 00:03:50.330 18 months. And then at that point I was offered 00:03:50.330 --> 00:03:52.909 a clinic director position and I was able to, 00:03:52.990 --> 00:03:55.289 yeah, it was awesome because I was able to see 00:03:55.289 --> 00:03:57.849 the inner workings of the clinic. So, and I didn't. 00:03:58.060 --> 00:04:00.879 you know it was great experience so i managed 00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:04.360 a tms chair we had two in that clinic i had 10 00:04:04.360 --> 00:04:06.860 other therapists three other medical providers 00:04:06.860 --> 00:04:10.400 front office staff mas so it really allowed for 00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:13.080 me to get a good understanding of numbers and 00:04:13.080 --> 00:04:16.019 caseloads and how to manage and networking and 00:04:16.019 --> 00:04:19.600 collaborating um so if anybody can get some kind 00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:21.459 of experience like that even if it's you know 00:04:21.459 --> 00:04:24.399 honestly in my opinion even if it's like they're 00:04:24.399 --> 00:04:27.139 not going to pay you really well you're the information 00:04:27.139 --> 00:04:29.519 that you're going to gain is like tenfold. It'll 00:04:29.519 --> 00:04:32.300 come back to you. Yeah, I know that's like a 00:04:32.300 --> 00:04:35.399 controversial topic, right? Like do you take 00:04:35.399 --> 00:04:37.899 something with lower pay now if it's something 00:04:37.899 --> 00:04:39.980 that you think the experience will pay off in? 00:04:40.040 --> 00:04:43.319 I think take it situation to situation, you know, 00:04:43.319 --> 00:04:45.980 but I do think that there are situations where 00:04:45.980 --> 00:04:51.579 it makes sense. At what point did you realize 00:04:51.579 --> 00:04:54.829 like, hmm, maybe I could build my own? private 00:04:54.829 --> 00:04:59.170 practice? Like how did that happen for you? Yeah, 00:04:59.290 --> 00:05:01.670 I really just saw the inner workings of the clinic. 00:05:01.750 --> 00:05:04.470 And so, you know, managing 10 other therapists 00:05:04.470 --> 00:05:07.730 and three other medical providers and the clinic 00:05:07.730 --> 00:05:10.649 numbers, that was, I mean, it's a lot, you know? 00:05:10.670 --> 00:05:13.110 And so I realized like, okay, well, if I can 00:05:13.110 --> 00:05:15.069 do this, then I can do this at a smaller scale 00:05:15.069 --> 00:05:18.850 likely. So I continued on with that, with that 00:05:18.850 --> 00:05:21.209 job for, gosh, I was in that role for about a 00:05:21.209 --> 00:05:23.949 year and a half. And my husband got orders. We 00:05:23.949 --> 00:05:26.379 thought, wow, we're going to retire out of Colorado 00:05:26.379 --> 00:05:28.639 Springs. Well, you know, I don't know why I thought 00:05:28.639 --> 00:05:31.600 that I could control the military because I can't. 00:05:31.620 --> 00:05:35.920 And so we got orders and that was like my, that 00:05:35.920 --> 00:05:38.519 was the fast route for me to just say, okay, 00:05:38.560 --> 00:05:41.240 I have to take this into my own hands and just 00:05:41.240 --> 00:05:44.860 run with private practice. So it worked out perfectly. 00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:46.379 It worked out just the way that it was supposed 00:05:46.379 --> 00:05:49.060 to. Yeah. So it was kind of that experience you 00:05:49.060 --> 00:05:50.879 think that gave you more confidence because of 00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:54.399 what you learned, it sounds like. Yeah. Absolutely. 00:05:54.540 --> 00:05:56.300 Yeah, absolutely. I was already kind of like, 00:05:56.339 --> 00:05:58.500 you know, thinking about it. I was thinking about 00:05:58.500 --> 00:06:00.699 what that was going to look like in my future. 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:04.120 But I really think us getting those orders to 00:06:04.120 --> 00:06:07.220 move was like, it was a push that I was like, 00:06:07.259 --> 00:06:09.360 okay, I have to do this now. Like, there's no 00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:11.319 other option. I'm not taking this job with me. 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:14.000 And, you know, paying South Georgia, unfortunately, 00:06:14.220 --> 00:06:17.379 is horrible. And it's such a restricted state 00:06:17.379 --> 00:06:21.060 to work in that I wasn't really willing to kind 00:06:21.060 --> 00:06:24.240 of run by those guidelines, you know. Yep. What 00:06:24.240 --> 00:06:26.699 states are you licensed in? I'm licensed in Arizona 00:06:26.699 --> 00:06:28.839 and Colorado. So it works out really well for 00:06:28.839 --> 00:06:31.439 me from a business standpoint. I love Colorado. 00:06:31.620 --> 00:06:34.600 We have lots of ties still there. So I go back 00:06:34.600 --> 00:06:36.879 to Colorado three or four times a year to tax 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:39.459 write off. And so tax strategy is a huge piece. 00:06:39.779 --> 00:06:42.459 I think of business ownership, really understanding 00:06:42.459 --> 00:06:45.560 how you can write, you know, travel off, expenses 00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:48.769 off. Arizona, I go home to see my family. I mean, 00:06:48.810 --> 00:06:50.990 really probably about four times a year. So I'm 00:06:50.990 --> 00:06:54.009 also able to write that off. I see patients and 00:06:54.009 --> 00:06:56.810 kind of, you know, incorporate that. That's exciting. 00:06:57.430 --> 00:07:02.329 So how much money would you say that you spent 00:07:02.329 --> 00:07:04.850 when you first were launching your practice roughly? 00:07:05.329 --> 00:07:08.129 Because that's a question and it's across the 00:07:08.129 --> 00:07:10.089 map. Honestly, the answers I've been getting 00:07:10.089 --> 00:07:11.990 as I ask people this, how much they spend to 00:07:11.990 --> 00:07:15.649 get going. Yeah, I would probably say my startup 00:07:15.649 --> 00:07:19.790 costs like initially. probably around two or 00:07:19.790 --> 00:07:23.470 $3 ,000. I did spend some money. I have intake 00:07:23.470 --> 00:07:25.430 Q and I did spend some money to have somebody 00:07:25.430 --> 00:07:27.689 build that program out for me because it is a 00:07:27.689 --> 00:07:30.490 little bit more DIY. Now that I've used it for 00:07:30.490 --> 00:07:33.149 the amount of time I have, I've reinvented my 00:07:33.149 --> 00:07:36.110 intake forms and I know exactly how to code those 00:07:36.110 --> 00:07:38.069 out. And so I'm not really doing that as much 00:07:38.069 --> 00:07:40.430 and having to pay that, but that was invaluable 00:07:40.430 --> 00:07:42.889 at the beginning, another company that built 00:07:42.889 --> 00:07:45.129 that out. And so it just made my life so much 00:07:45.129 --> 00:07:48.399 easier. So that was a big chunk of money. I didn't 00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:51.439 really have, I had maybe like a two to $300 bill 00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:54.379 a month to have office space, you know, and it 00:07:54.379 --> 00:07:56.819 was just as needed and where my mail would go 00:07:56.819 --> 00:07:59.459 and stuff like that. And then we utilized Spruce 00:07:59.459 --> 00:08:03.180 for communication. So that was so helpful and 00:08:03.180 --> 00:08:05.720 it still is. That's an invaluable tool. I love 00:08:05.720 --> 00:08:08.879 Spruce. Me too. It's a great, great tool. And 00:08:08.879 --> 00:08:11.240 it's just seamless for patients to be able to 00:08:11.240 --> 00:08:13.519 communicate. Okay. That's interesting. That's 00:08:13.519 --> 00:08:15.800 interesting. I think maybe you and I use the 00:08:15.800 --> 00:08:20.160 same company to set up our interview. Yeah. So 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:24.600 at what point, like, did you know that you were, 00:08:24.699 --> 00:08:27.699 did you start out thinking I'm going to be a 00:08:27.699 --> 00:08:32.200 solo practice or I want to do a group situation 00:08:32.200 --> 00:08:34.840 and then talk to me about like the credentialing 00:08:34.840 --> 00:08:39.500 and referral sources? Yeah. Yeah. So I went into 00:08:39.500 --> 00:08:41.379 this really just thinking like, I'm doing this 00:08:41.379 --> 00:08:44.399 for myself. I want to control my own schedule. 00:08:44.580 --> 00:08:47.019 I really don't want to manage a lot of people 00:08:47.019 --> 00:08:50.059 because again, I was dealing with different modalities 00:08:50.059 --> 00:08:52.259 inside of the last clinic I worked with. So that 00:08:52.259 --> 00:08:54.620 was a little bit harder. I'm really understanding 00:08:54.620 --> 00:08:58.320 job structures and roles. different degree paths 00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:00.720 and all those things. So I was really good at 00:09:00.720 --> 00:09:02.960 the med side of things. I, I was the medical 00:09:02.960 --> 00:09:05.000 director as well. And so I was able to kind of 00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:07.259 incorporate that in my day -to -day practice, 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:10.360 but I really went into this almost in a sense 00:09:10.360 --> 00:09:12.299 of like burnout of like, Nope, I'm just doing 00:09:12.299 --> 00:09:14.679 my own thing. I'm just going to create my own 00:09:14.679 --> 00:09:17.679 destiny and do my own schedule. But I quickly 00:09:17.679 --> 00:09:20.659 realized it's kind of lonely by yourself. And 00:09:20.659 --> 00:09:23.480 so I did that for about a year though, on my 00:09:23.480 --> 00:09:26.850 own and it was great, but I also. started to 00:09:26.850 --> 00:09:29.250 realize like, wow, I, I really need some help 00:09:29.250 --> 00:09:31.450 answering the phones. And I'd really like to 00:09:31.450 --> 00:09:33.490 go on a vacation and somebody cover my time or 00:09:33.490 --> 00:09:36.289 have more, you know, help with intakes. So I 00:09:36.289 --> 00:09:39.169 hired another nurse practitioner. I also hired 00:09:39.169 --> 00:09:41.789 an assistant through HelloRage game changer. 00:09:41.970 --> 00:09:45.929 Um, I read the book, um, who not how that. book 00:09:45.929 --> 00:09:48.450 literally changed my life. And it may not be 00:09:48.450 --> 00:09:50.549 as impactful for others, but for me, I have a 00:09:50.549 --> 00:09:53.330 mindset. I grew up with an entrepreneurial father 00:09:53.330 --> 00:09:57.129 that does everything himself. And so just that 00:09:57.129 --> 00:10:01.649 mind frame of just, I have to do all the tasks. 00:10:01.809 --> 00:10:05.029 And once I realized like, wow, I just need to 00:10:05.029 --> 00:10:07.990 figure out who can do this job, not how I need 00:10:07.990 --> 00:10:09.850 to do this job. And I need to be able to focus 00:10:09.850 --> 00:10:12.649 on my patient care. It changed the structure 00:10:12.649 --> 00:10:15.190 of the game for me, for sure. Okay. That's awesome. 00:10:15.350 --> 00:10:17.669 So did you hire the virtual assistant first or 00:10:17.669 --> 00:10:19.889 the nurse practitioner first? Actually together, 00:10:20.049 --> 00:10:23.149 almost at the same time. So I brought the nurse 00:10:23.149 --> 00:10:25.250 practitioner on and I started to realize like, 00:10:25.350 --> 00:10:28.269 okay, within that same timeframe, I can't answer 00:10:28.269 --> 00:10:31.669 phone calls to get intakes on the schedule. I 00:10:31.669 --> 00:10:34.169 need to be able to still focus on my caseload. 00:10:34.690 --> 00:10:37.710 So I did them both at the same time. And that 00:10:37.710 --> 00:10:39.789 person, my virtual assistant is still with me. 00:10:39.870 --> 00:10:42.409 She's amazing. Yeah. She's been with me for now. 00:10:42.909 --> 00:10:47.289 Almost three years. Wow. And is that kind of 00:10:47.289 --> 00:10:50.029 an affordable hourly rate that you pay? Oh, yeah. 00:10:50.129 --> 00:10:54.090 I think it's like $9, $9 .50 an hour. And that's 00:10:54.090 --> 00:10:56.289 really good money for them. And she's a pharmacist 00:10:56.289 --> 00:10:59.809 in her country, in the Philippines. And so she 00:10:59.809 --> 00:11:03.049 kind of works that, you know, on off -duty hours 00:11:03.049 --> 00:11:05.389 or whatever. And that's incredible because she's 00:11:05.389 --> 00:11:08.429 bringing other knowledge to the company. Yeah. 00:11:08.490 --> 00:11:10.789 So it's great. What kinds of things does she 00:11:10.789 --> 00:11:15.379 do for you? Everything. I mean, literally, yeah, 00:11:15.480 --> 00:11:18.639 everything. She answers the phones, she schedules, 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:21.279 she helps with my billing. She helps with my 00:11:21.279 --> 00:11:25.960 marketing. She assists with my social media. 00:11:26.019 --> 00:11:29.559 I just hired another assistant and he does all 00:11:29.559 --> 00:11:32.440 of my, everything that she's doing too. So it's 00:11:32.440 --> 00:11:35.080 just kind of a replication of her. So it just, 00:11:35.159 --> 00:11:37.679 it makes the clinic flow just so much easier. 00:11:38.220 --> 00:11:40.740 totally worth spending the money because it really, 00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:43.299 that money comes back to your tenfold. Yeah, 00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:47.539 absolutely. So pretty cool that you have hired 00:11:47.539 --> 00:11:50.419 one of the nurse practitioners who graduated 00:11:50.419 --> 00:11:54.179 from the Psych NP bootcamp and fellowship. Tell 00:11:54.179 --> 00:11:58.059 me about like, how was that for you? Like hiring 00:11:58.059 --> 00:12:00.759 someone who was maybe a little bit more prepared? 00:12:01.470 --> 00:12:03.610 she's amazing she's great she's good at what 00:12:03.610 --> 00:12:06.190 she does she's and and here's the point too like 00:12:06.190 --> 00:12:08.149 I've really and I've tried to hone this in with 00:12:08.149 --> 00:12:10.950 the other nurse practitioners that I've hired 00:12:10.950 --> 00:12:13.990 maybe and just the mind frame that I have of 00:12:13.990 --> 00:12:17.379 hiring like I can help you learn really anything 00:12:17.379 --> 00:12:20.259 that there is in psychiatry. It's that personality 00:12:20.259 --> 00:12:23.200 piece that is so important to me. And she just 00:12:23.200 --> 00:12:26.399 exemplifies the personality plus the knowledge, 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:28.899 you know, so she's like the total package, you 00:12:28.899 --> 00:12:32.899 know, so she's been a great, great hire for the 00:12:32.899 --> 00:12:36.320 company. She's really like exemplified in patient 00:12:36.320 --> 00:12:39.320 care. She gets really great feedback. So it's 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:42.139 been a positive experience for sure. That's awesome. 00:12:42.279 --> 00:12:45.299 I love to hear that. So you'd hire from the fellowship. 00:12:45.860 --> 00:12:48.980 fellowship graduate again. Yeah, I think I already 00:12:48.980 --> 00:12:51.419 reached out to you to hire my next one. So I'm 00:12:51.419 --> 00:12:54.580 ready. Posted on socials the other day that sometimes 00:12:54.580 --> 00:12:57.919 I feel like a psych NP matchmaker. And I kind 00:12:57.919 --> 00:13:00.100 of love it. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. 00:13:00.639 --> 00:13:03.059 As far as getting credentialed independently 00:13:03.059 --> 00:13:05.440 versus like using some of these companies, tell 00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:08.399 me about that. Yeah. Yeah. So I went with headway 00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:10.840 and Alma at first, and I still honestly use both 00:13:10.840 --> 00:13:12.700 of those platforms to tell you the truth. I have 00:13:12.700 --> 00:13:16.080 diversified a lot more since, um, getting started 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:18.340 though. I've credentialed my business and I'll 00:13:18.340 --> 00:13:20.399 leave all of these companies that I've used. 00:13:20.419 --> 00:13:22.480 I'll leave for you. So that way you can like 00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:25.519 post it within the podcast, but I found a really 00:13:25.519 --> 00:13:28.879 great biller. Um, and she has changed, you know, 00:13:28.899 --> 00:13:31.919 the, the career or the. How did you find her, 00:13:31.960 --> 00:13:34.659 your biller? Word of mouth, actually. Yeah. There 00:13:34.659 --> 00:13:38.600 was another, my mentor used her. And so she told 00:13:38.600 --> 00:13:42.759 me about her. Yeah. So she's fantastic. Actually, 00:13:42.779 --> 00:13:45.500 both of my, the credentialer and the biller I 00:13:45.500 --> 00:13:47.679 found through word of mouth. So, and they're 00:13:47.679 --> 00:13:51.559 great. Then my credentialer is like, so organized, 00:13:51.620 --> 00:13:55.639 so organized. We'll give you the whole spreadsheet, 00:13:55.700 --> 00:13:57.740 tell you exactly where you're at in the process. 00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:01.200 Here's all your passwords. These are your usernames. 00:14:01.539 --> 00:14:04.620 This is where you log on. It's incredible. So 00:14:04.620 --> 00:14:07.639 she's been a game changer for my practice though. 00:14:07.779 --> 00:14:11.100 And then I hired on somebody that did my website 00:14:11.100 --> 00:14:13.399 development and I'll list her information too. 00:14:13.500 --> 00:14:16.620 Originally, I used her for my first website build 00:14:16.620 --> 00:14:19.419 out. And so that was great. Just keeping the 00:14:19.419 --> 00:14:22.279 expenses low and being able to work efficiently. 00:14:22.659 --> 00:14:25.990 Yeah. Was that through HelloRage as well or no? 00:14:26.350 --> 00:14:29.610 No, no. So the website development was here. 00:14:29.710 --> 00:14:33.929 She's located in Arizona. And then both of the 00:14:33.929 --> 00:14:37.149 biller is actually, I think she's in New Jersey. 00:14:37.149 --> 00:14:40.190 And then the credentialer is in Colorado. Okay, 00:14:40.309 --> 00:14:44.389 gotcha. You mentioned your mentor and how she 00:14:44.389 --> 00:14:48.399 kind of had used them. was vetted. How did you 00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:51.960 find your mentor and was it like a coaching program 00:14:51.960 --> 00:14:57.179 you did? I like to know kind of, yeah, how, how 00:14:57.179 --> 00:14:59.860 people feel about like the coaching and mentorship 00:14:59.860 --> 00:15:03.440 and, and whatnot and investing in that. Yeah, 00:15:03.500 --> 00:15:06.759 I actually, she is my second PE mentor. So she 00:15:06.759 --> 00:15:09.899 was one of my receptors when I first started 00:15:09.899 --> 00:15:12.340 school. And then I worked alongside of her in 00:15:12.340 --> 00:15:15.580 the same clinic. I left the clinic. She remained 00:15:15.580 --> 00:15:17.240 with the clinic a little bit longer than me. 00:15:17.480 --> 00:15:19.879 I went into private practice. And so our roles 00:15:19.879 --> 00:15:21.620 kind of switched just a little bit because I 00:15:21.620 --> 00:15:23.000 went to private practice a little bit sooner, 00:15:23.100 --> 00:15:27.360 but she found the credentialer. before, you know, 00:15:27.379 --> 00:15:31.200 I had really started to explore that area. I 00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:33.519 was still just using headway and Alma. And so 00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:35.559 she shared that with me. So we've kind of like, 00:15:35.580 --> 00:15:37.340 we've just remained really good friends and been 00:15:37.340 --> 00:15:40.080 able to kind of engage in a great way. She's 00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:41.759 one of my best friends. So it's awesome how it 00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:46.220 works that way. I love that. Yeah. So is all 00:15:46.220 --> 00:15:51.179 your billing now, like through your own stuff? 00:15:51.399 --> 00:15:55.039 Yeah, not all of it through. Some of it's still 00:15:55.039 --> 00:15:57.460 through headway. Yeah. So I do some of it through 00:15:57.460 --> 00:16:00.580 headway still from some through Alma, some of 00:16:00.580 --> 00:16:04.580 it's through my company through, you know, my 00:16:04.580 --> 00:16:07.340 credential, like my contracts that I, I carry 00:16:07.340 --> 00:16:09.700 with the insurance and it works out great. Like 00:16:09.700 --> 00:16:12.159 there's some like TRICARE, Medicaid, you know, 00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:13.559 those are going to be ones that are going to 00:16:13.559 --> 00:16:16.799 have to go into through my, through the company. 00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:18.679 And then the other ones will have to go through 00:16:18.679 --> 00:16:22.080 Alma and headway. Gotcha. Gotcha. So does it 00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:25.529 come down to like rates? Yeah, sometimes it does. 00:16:25.669 --> 00:16:27.690 And I will say like, as I brought people on, 00:16:27.850 --> 00:16:30.370 Headway has been great for group practice. So, 00:16:30.370 --> 00:16:33.029 and they do that. So that's really cool. It's 00:16:33.029 --> 00:16:35.110 interesting. I just got off of another podcast 00:16:35.110 --> 00:16:37.990 interview where same thing. And it's funny because 00:16:37.990 --> 00:16:40.570 I had looked into doing this and I swear I met 00:16:40.570 --> 00:16:43.190 with Headway maybe right at a time where something 00:16:43.190 --> 00:16:45.850 was funky, but they were like, we're not, we 00:16:45.850 --> 00:16:48.230 can't do the group practice thing. But like. 00:16:48.669 --> 00:16:51.090 people still continued to use headway and continued 00:16:51.090 --> 00:16:53.389 to scale group practices so I don't know I was 00:16:53.389 --> 00:16:57.529 maybe asking I don't I don't know but it's it's 00:16:57.529 --> 00:17:00.070 awesome that it's worked out that way well and 00:17:00.070 --> 00:17:02.389 it's awesome because then we get payout so quickly 00:17:02.389 --> 00:17:04.930 so we can you know as long as the notes are closed 00:17:04.930 --> 00:17:07.390 sent to billing you're going to get paid within 00:17:07.390 --> 00:17:09.869 two weeks so it's awesome it's fast you know 00:17:09.869 --> 00:17:13.089 so it keeps my payroll in check in order to get 00:17:13.089 --> 00:17:15.589 everybody paid out for the end of the the weeks 00:17:16.519 --> 00:17:19.740 As opposed to like credentialing, how long does 00:17:19.740 --> 00:17:21.900 that typically take? I think it just depends 00:17:21.900 --> 00:17:24.440 on company. I think it depends on where you're 00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:27.880 at in the year. I think there's so many variables, 00:17:28.140 --> 00:17:30.140 you know, so there's sometimes where it's like 00:17:30.140 --> 00:17:33.269 Medicaid. They pay out so fast. You know, I get 00:17:33.269 --> 00:17:35.549 my payout within a week of closing that note 00:17:35.549 --> 00:17:38.069 and getting it sent off to billing. So whereas 00:17:38.069 --> 00:17:40.269 there's other companies that, you know, they're 00:17:40.269 --> 00:17:42.869 sitting on it for 60 days, you know, so you're 00:17:42.869 --> 00:17:44.990 waiting to pay out there. And that's where maybe 00:17:44.990 --> 00:17:49.069 hiring hourly versus split. It's you have to 00:17:49.069 --> 00:17:51.230 make those decisions kind of accordingly. So, 00:17:51.230 --> 00:17:54.529 yeah, and I've done both and they work well in 00:17:54.529 --> 00:17:56.990 practice. It's just trying to figure out how 00:17:56.990 --> 00:18:00.049 how your numbers are going to work for your clinic. 00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:06.960 Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So you see patients 00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:11.400 in person once a year. Right. If, if they're 00:18:11.400 --> 00:18:14.220 on average. Yeah, I'll go. I mean, I, I try to 00:18:14.220 --> 00:18:16.220 like break it up to where I'm like, okay, I'm 00:18:16.220 --> 00:18:17.700 going to, I want to go to Colorado. I want to 00:18:17.700 --> 00:18:20.920 go, you know, like I said, I, I use this to my 00:18:20.920 --> 00:18:23.000 advantage too, you know, so I'm going to go see 00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:25.920 patients and then I'm going to go and go snowboarding, 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:28.200 you know, in Colorado. It was an awful year this 00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:30.579 year, but just in general, that's what I'll do. 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:32.819 And so I'll see patients for two or three days 00:18:32.819 --> 00:18:34.759 out of that week. And then I'll spend the weekend 00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:36.339 doing whatever I want to do and then fly back 00:18:36.339 --> 00:18:40.109 to wherever I'm going. So yeah. Yeah. I love 00:18:40.109 --> 00:18:41.829 that. Sorry, I'm like all over the map, but I 00:18:41.829 --> 00:18:44.390 forgot to ask you about, are there any other 00:18:44.390 --> 00:18:46.950 platforms you use other than like the Alma and 00:18:46.950 --> 00:18:50.690 Headway? No, that's really it. Alma and Headway 00:18:50.690 --> 00:18:52.750 for, yeah, the billing purposes. I know there's 00:18:52.750 --> 00:18:54.509 like Rula and stuff. I haven't even researched 00:18:54.509 --> 00:18:57.450 it. I just feel like we're plugging along with 00:18:57.450 --> 00:19:00.089 what we got. What percentage of your referrals 00:19:00.089 --> 00:19:03.029 would you say have come from Headway and Alma? 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:05.599 Almost probably a little bit better, honestly. 00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:08.299 I haven't tracked the numbers. I could probably 00:19:08.299 --> 00:19:10.519 get those though for, you know, after the show, 00:19:10.579 --> 00:19:13.920 but headway, barely any, like I don't get very 00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:17.160 many referrals from them. I get a lot of my referrals 00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:19.859 from the relationships that I'm, you know, creating 00:19:19.859 --> 00:19:23.660 outside and just networking. So meeting with 00:19:23.660 --> 00:19:26.099 therapists, meeting with primary care offices, 00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:30.579 collaborating on care, I, those relationships 00:19:30.579 --> 00:19:35.269 go. so far yeah and talk to me about that like 00:19:35.269 --> 00:19:37.250 because i think people it's helpful for them 00:19:37.250 --> 00:19:42.069 to hear is that something that you do primarily 00:19:42.069 --> 00:19:44.190 or do you have any of the support staff helping 00:19:44.190 --> 00:19:46.670 you with that and is it just like you're reaching 00:19:46.670 --> 00:19:50.089 out on facebook groups and setting up like coffee 00:19:50.089 --> 00:19:53.849 chats or like practically how does that look 00:19:53.849 --> 00:19:57.210 yeah i mean all the above i i really am doing 00:19:57.210 --> 00:19:58.970 a majority of those calls because i really think 00:19:58.970 --> 00:20:02.529 it's important that people are putting the name 00:20:02.529 --> 00:20:06.150 to the face of the company. So I do a lot of 00:20:06.150 --> 00:20:07.930 those warm touches. Yeah, they're assisting with, 00:20:08.089 --> 00:20:11.269 you know. scheduling and, you know, making sure 00:20:11.269 --> 00:20:13.150 that those appointments take place. But for the 00:20:13.150 --> 00:20:15.369 most part, like I'm the one that's conversating. 00:20:15.549 --> 00:20:17.670 I do a lot of, you know, just like, Hey, you 00:20:17.670 --> 00:20:19.250 just want to get to know your practice. I want 00:20:19.250 --> 00:20:21.890 to understand what your specialty is. I softly, 00:20:22.130 --> 00:20:24.509 I know that we can't require, but I softly require 00:20:24.509 --> 00:20:26.630 that my patients are all engaged in therapy. 00:20:26.750 --> 00:20:29.450 So that makes that relationship building process 00:20:29.450 --> 00:20:32.089 so easy because it's like, I need to have referral 00:20:32.089 --> 00:20:34.250 sources. If I'm going to, you know, really encourage 00:20:34.250 --> 00:20:37.069 these practices, like those referral sources 00:20:37.069 --> 00:20:40.440 need to be. on the ready and when I'm ready to 00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:43.220 send my patients to a place. And I also want 00:20:43.220 --> 00:20:45.920 to make sure that that place is vetted with good 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:49.019 providers and they're going to get what it is 00:20:49.019 --> 00:20:52.700 that they need. Yeah, absolutely. So you've been 00:20:52.700 --> 00:20:55.240 in practice about three or four years, private 00:20:55.240 --> 00:20:58.039 practice, right? Yeah. You might not know the 00:20:58.039 --> 00:21:02.160 answer, but roughly how many hours a week do 00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:06.700 you think you spend networking, marketing, relationship 00:21:06.700 --> 00:21:11.039 building? Yeah, gosh, I, I at least am putting 00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:15.720 forth on average, probably about five to seven 00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:17.980 hours a week. You know, really, I think that 00:21:17.980 --> 00:21:21.359 that part's what is the building block of wanting 00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:23.759 to own a private practice, like, and building 00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:25.640 those relationships and making sure that you're 00:21:25.640 --> 00:21:27.880 getting those referral sources. It's so important. 00:21:28.299 --> 00:21:31.680 Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's helpful. How do 00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:36.289 you like being in private practice? How is your 00:21:36.289 --> 00:21:39.369 quality of life? Are you burned out? Do you have 00:21:39.369 --> 00:21:41.789 other sources of income? I don't have any other 00:21:41.789 --> 00:21:43.890 sources of, I mean, minus my husband's military. 00:21:43.990 --> 00:21:47.890 So, you know, total income there, but no, I definitely 00:21:47.890 --> 00:21:50.829 am just, I love my job. I love what I'm doing. 00:21:51.029 --> 00:21:52.630 I'm passionate about what I'm doing. I'm starting 00:21:52.630 --> 00:21:55.900 to realize though that. I can touch so many more 00:21:55.900 --> 00:21:58.940 lives if I continue to kind of grow my practice 00:21:58.940 --> 00:22:01.759 and surround myself with people that like to 00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:03.619 practice the same way that I do. I really have 00:22:03.619 --> 00:22:06.819 a functional thought process about care. I really 00:22:06.819 --> 00:22:11.339 aim to really provide pretty decent therapy, 00:22:11.559 --> 00:22:13.940 you know, motivational interviewing. I want goal 00:22:13.940 --> 00:22:16.960 setting. purpose in people's lives. I think that 00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:19.299 these were really important. It's beyond medications. 00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:23.099 I didn't go into this to push meds. And if they 00:22:23.099 --> 00:22:26.640 work, that's great. But I literally am probably 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:29.660 the worst business owner in the sense of I'm 00:22:29.660 --> 00:22:31.599 so excited when I get to discharge a patient 00:22:31.599 --> 00:22:33.880 because we've figured it out or they got down 00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:35.799 to the bottom of it. They found resolution. It's 00:22:35.799 --> 00:22:39.099 just, it's so fulfilling. Yeah. It's incredible. 00:22:39.240 --> 00:22:42.119 The impact piece for sure. I think you and I 00:22:42.119 --> 00:22:45.180 are Or maybe you did it in the past, but we're 00:22:45.180 --> 00:22:48.619 in the same integrative psych fellowship, right? 00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:53.579 Psych redefined. Yep. When did you do it? I did 00:22:53.579 --> 00:22:55.900 it this last year. I didn't finish it. fully, 00:22:55.940 --> 00:22:58.200 you get two years and somebody should have never 00:22:58.200 --> 00:23:00.940 told me that because I'm like, Oh, I get to like, 00:23:01.059 --> 00:23:03.299 I know, come back in and do more coursework. 00:23:03.380 --> 00:23:06.019 That's great. You know? So I probably did a little 00:23:06.019 --> 00:23:07.779 bit, you know, I did it a little bit slower than 00:23:07.779 --> 00:23:10.980 I should have, but I have the rest of the year 00:23:10.980 --> 00:23:13.680 to complete it. So, but it has been, Oh my gosh, 00:23:13.700 --> 00:23:17.559 that program has been so energizing for my practice 00:23:17.559 --> 00:23:19.200 because I just take some of those protocols. 00:23:19.559 --> 00:23:22.599 I implement them. I see how they work. And I'm 00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:24.460 just like, wow, like that was a game changer 00:23:24.460 --> 00:23:27.150 that. changed for that patient. I know that's 00:23:27.150 --> 00:23:29.329 anecdotal, but you can pull the research and 00:23:29.329 --> 00:23:31.349 you can see exactly what it's doing. So yeah. 00:23:31.890 --> 00:23:34.329 Anything specific that you've implemented that 00:23:34.329 --> 00:23:36.569 you've been surprised by, I guess the results 00:23:36.569 --> 00:23:39.869 of. Yeah. I mean, honestly, I'm, I'm big on sleep. 00:23:39.930 --> 00:23:42.829 So I've now everybody's on magnesium glycinate. 00:23:42.910 --> 00:23:46.109 Like I use that stuff like candy. I do a lot 00:23:46.109 --> 00:23:51.039 of lab protocol. I'm big on. making sure iron 00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:54.019 ferritin is where it should be. I really like 00:23:54.019 --> 00:23:56.539 to look at hormones. I don't specifically do 00:23:56.539 --> 00:23:59.099 them myself, but I do get them set up, sent off 00:23:59.099 --> 00:24:02.880 to get hormone replacement if need be. I'm looking 00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:05.819 at thyroid, really just doing deep dives on some 00:24:05.819 --> 00:24:08.339 of these things that may be contributing to their 00:24:08.339 --> 00:24:13.339 mental health symptoms. MTHFR, huge B12, homocysteine. 00:24:13.380 --> 00:24:14.980 You know, I just think like these are things 00:24:14.980 --> 00:24:17.519 that we can incorporate that can really impact. 00:24:18.170 --> 00:24:22.650 quality of life for our patients. Yeah. And how 00:24:22.650 --> 00:24:25.490 about the providers you hire? Are they, do they 00:24:25.490 --> 00:24:27.470 practice kind of that integrative functional 00:24:27.470 --> 00:24:31.410 way? Yeah, absolutely. It's probably one of the 00:24:31.410 --> 00:24:34.779 big key. factors when I'm hiring that I'm discussing 00:24:34.779 --> 00:24:37.140 that because the protocols that I'm kind of putting 00:24:37.140 --> 00:24:39.480 together in my clinic is guidance, you know, 00:24:39.500 --> 00:24:41.279 for the clinic, you know, for the providers, 00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:43.500 of course, they don't have to use it to its T 00:24:43.500 --> 00:24:46.240 to the fullest. They're independent, but it is, 00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:48.599 you know, I want that to be integrated there. 00:24:49.619 --> 00:24:51.700 That's cool. So you've, you have some protocols 00:24:51.700 --> 00:24:53.720 that you've shared with them. So you kind of 00:24:53.720 --> 00:24:56.400 like educate and help them implement some of 00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:58.539 those strategies. It sounds like. Yeah, absolutely. 00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:02.390 A hundred percent. Okay. Very cool. Where do 00:25:02.390 --> 00:25:05.730 you see things for you? Psych NP wise in like 00:25:05.730 --> 00:25:07.430 five years from now? I know that's kind of a 00:25:07.430 --> 00:25:09.109 big question. I hate when people ask me this. 00:25:09.430 --> 00:25:12.650 No, I think that's good. Actually. I would probably 00:25:12.650 --> 00:25:16.250 say I would, I may have a couple more second 00:25:16.250 --> 00:25:18.470 piece. I may, you know, there may be growth for 00:25:18.470 --> 00:25:20.470 others though, too. And so there may, there's 00:25:20.470 --> 00:25:22.869 a little bit of movement there. I'm hopeful to 00:25:22.869 --> 00:25:26.309 continue to feed into more psych and peas. I 00:25:26.309 --> 00:25:28.750 feel, you know, once I started to realize like, 00:25:28.809 --> 00:25:31.160 wow, like. My caseload can really only be about 00:25:31.160 --> 00:25:34.799 300. 300 is like my sweet spot. You know, there's 00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:36.680 a lot that are maybe I'm only seeing every three 00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:39.759 months, you know, it's just a good spot for me. 00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:41.740 And so I start to, you really start to look at 00:25:41.740 --> 00:25:43.500 that number. Like you think it's a lot as an 00:25:43.500 --> 00:25:45.579 individual person, but then when you look at 00:25:45.579 --> 00:25:48.000 into your state numbers or your community numbers, 00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:51.160 it's like, oh my gosh, I'm like, literally it's 00:25:51.160 --> 00:25:53.980 a fraction. It's nothing. So if I can bring on 00:25:53.980 --> 00:25:57.990 more people that are able to collectively. care 00:25:57.990 --> 00:26:00.630 the same way that I care, we can impact so many 00:26:00.630 --> 00:26:04.049 more people. So I'm hopeful that there'll be 00:26:04.049 --> 00:26:07.210 clinic growth for sure. Yeah. I'm curious about 00:26:07.210 --> 00:26:14.829 like, have your stress levels gone up with managing 00:26:14.829 --> 00:26:18.420 other people? having hired people yeah in some 00:26:18.420 --> 00:26:21.140 ways it has there there has been you know there's 00:26:21.140 --> 00:26:24.440 there's always going to be some sort of um stress 00:26:24.440 --> 00:26:27.339 that kind of entails there but i i don't think 00:26:27.339 --> 00:26:32.460 it's like from a way that is losing sleep or 00:26:32.460 --> 00:26:34.259 you know it's just a different kind of stress 00:26:34.259 --> 00:26:36.700 it's either i have that stress when i'm doing 00:26:36.700 --> 00:26:40.400 patient care or i'm helping you know other providers 00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:43.920 kind of obtain their goals and you know and obtain 00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:48.670 court their load of patience and do it in a safe, 00:26:48.690 --> 00:26:51.650 effective way. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. 00:26:52.210 --> 00:26:55.869 What would you say is like an underrated hack 00:26:55.869 --> 00:26:58.390 or I don't know, just like a tool you've used 00:26:58.390 --> 00:27:00.869 that you're like, man, people don't appreciate 00:27:00.869 --> 00:27:03.009 this enough, but this really is a game changer. 00:27:03.730 --> 00:27:06.390 Yeah. I was just playing with AI today, yesterday, 00:27:06.490 --> 00:27:10.259 actually. in regards to like 1099 pay and things 00:27:10.259 --> 00:27:12.019 like that. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, I like coded 00:27:12.019 --> 00:27:15.039 out something. I'm like, how, this is so crazy. 00:27:15.099 --> 00:27:17.920 This is where our life is going though. And we 00:27:17.920 --> 00:27:22.000 better figure it out because we're gonna, we're 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:25.599 gonna, it's going to happen fast. What, how many 00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:30.500 hours a week or do you commit to like learning 00:27:30.500 --> 00:27:34.569 about AI? Oh gosh, not enough. Probably like 00:27:34.569 --> 00:27:36.930 one, one hour a week. I need to definitely be 00:27:36.930 --> 00:27:38.950 putting more time into that. I was just saying 00:27:38.950 --> 00:27:41.269 that yesterday to my husband, who's like a total 00:27:41.269 --> 00:27:43.210 numbers guy. You know, he really helps in the 00:27:43.210 --> 00:27:46.190 background with like financial stuff. And I just, 00:27:46.210 --> 00:27:48.589 I think like some of these things that we may 00:27:48.589 --> 00:27:52.150 spin our wheels on for two hours can be done 00:27:52.150 --> 00:27:55.130 in one or two minutes, you know? How are you 00:27:55.130 --> 00:27:58.269 using AI right now? I'm using it definitely in 00:27:58.269 --> 00:28:01.150 my appointments. So I'm using it for note writing 00:28:01.150 --> 00:28:03.930 and stuff like that. So I'm doing the, I use 00:28:03.930 --> 00:28:06.390 berries. That has been a game changer for me. 00:28:06.529 --> 00:28:08.490 Like I said, I built out this 1099 calculator 00:28:08.490 --> 00:28:10.430 because that's really important that they kind 00:28:10.430 --> 00:28:13.450 of realize how much money they can make or how 00:28:13.450 --> 00:28:15.529 much they need to work, how much time they can 00:28:15.529 --> 00:28:19.210 take off in order to kind of incorporate what 00:28:19.210 --> 00:28:22.549 their overall quality of life looks like. I built 00:28:22.549 --> 00:28:26.490 that out. What else am I using it for? I don't, 00:28:26.490 --> 00:28:29.109 I have, I don't even think I've scratched the 00:28:29.109 --> 00:28:31.829 surface with what it can do. Yeah. Right. Yeah. 00:28:31.930 --> 00:28:33.670 No, that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. 00:28:33.849 --> 00:28:38.250 What do you think about, like, do you think it's 00:28:38.250 --> 00:28:42.690 important for psych NPs to build personal brands 00:28:42.690 --> 00:28:45.690 and why or why not? And what does that look like? 00:28:45.710 --> 00:28:49.029 Do you think in 2026? Yeah, absolutely. I actually 00:28:49.029 --> 00:28:51.329 took your, your branding course at the beginning 00:28:51.329 --> 00:28:53.710 of the year and it like, it's been such a cool 00:28:53.710 --> 00:28:57.450 change to watch. I was uncomfortable. I didn't 00:28:57.450 --> 00:28:59.829 want to do it. I said, I'm going to sign it. 00:28:59.849 --> 00:29:02.410 I saw it in a December posting and I was like, 00:29:02.450 --> 00:29:05.349 this is what I'm going to do in 2026. And then 00:29:05.349 --> 00:29:07.970 2026 rolled around and I was like, why did you 00:29:07.970 --> 00:29:12.349 do this? But you guys held me accountable. You 00:29:12.349 --> 00:29:14.589 and Ryan did an incredible job with that course. 00:29:14.809 --> 00:29:17.190 And there was a great group of women that were 00:29:17.190 --> 00:29:19.710 kind of surrounding and it was positive and it 00:29:19.710 --> 00:29:22.349 was influential. And now I have like over a thousand 00:29:22.349 --> 00:29:25.210 followers. Like I didn't do much. You're very 00:29:25.210 --> 00:29:28.250 natural on there. And like when you do put content 00:29:28.250 --> 00:29:30.869 out, it resonates and people are like, so go 00:29:30.869 --> 00:29:34.490 follow Robin. What are your handles? Robin Psych 00:29:34.490 --> 00:29:39.000 NP with a Y. Okay. Awesome. Has there been anything 00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:41.240 interesting or opportunities that have come, 00:29:41.259 --> 00:29:44.940 you know, out of that yet or not so much? You 00:29:44.940 --> 00:29:47.339 know, I feel like I haven't put as much, you 00:29:47.339 --> 00:29:50.519 know, into it as I probably should be putting 00:29:50.519 --> 00:29:53.259 into it. But I do see like when you put your 00:29:53.259 --> 00:29:55.900 face out for other patients to see you, they 00:29:55.900 --> 00:29:57.500 understand what they're getting. You know, like 00:29:57.500 --> 00:29:59.119 I think that's something that we don't think 00:29:59.119 --> 00:30:02.259 about frequently is like patients are really 00:30:02.259 --> 00:30:04.160 searching for their next provider. They're not 00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:07.230 just like, oh. There's the name. I'm just going 00:30:07.230 --> 00:30:09.390 to go with them. They're like looking at their 00:30:09.390 --> 00:30:12.009 social media. They're looking at how, what their 00:30:12.009 --> 00:30:14.289 personality is. And so it's important to be out 00:30:14.289 --> 00:30:16.930 there and, you know, ready for the next person 00:30:16.930 --> 00:30:19.410 that's coming along. A hundred percent. Do you 00:30:19.410 --> 00:30:22.730 remember how we got connected? Oh gosh. I just, 00:30:22.809 --> 00:30:27.069 I probably saw you on Facebook. I don't really 00:30:27.069 --> 00:30:29.269 remember to tell you the truth. I was thinking 00:30:29.269 --> 00:30:31.490 a Facebook group too, for some reason. So that 00:30:31.490 --> 00:30:33.809 sounds right. One of us DMing the other one and 00:30:33.809 --> 00:30:37.809 doing like one of our little coffee networking 00:30:37.809 --> 00:30:40.190 chats, I think probably. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 00:30:40.190 --> 00:30:43.710 Yeah. It's yeah. It's fun. It's, I feel so much 00:30:43.710 --> 00:30:46.869 more connected when I'm, since I've been visible, 00:30:46.950 --> 00:30:49.089 you know what I mean? Oh, a hundred percent. 00:30:49.230 --> 00:30:53.769 Yeah. Relationships. It helps you not feel isolated. 00:30:54.509 --> 00:30:56.750 Yeah. Yeah. The isolation. And then it's just 00:30:56.750 --> 00:30:58.509 putting the, you know, the connection with that 00:30:58.509 --> 00:31:02.829 person. So it's so cool. Yeah, absolutely. What 00:31:02.829 --> 00:31:05.529 advice would you have for a new psych NP who's 00:31:05.529 --> 00:31:09.390 having a hard time finding a job? Oh, that's 00:31:09.390 --> 00:31:15.210 a good one. Honestly, I would say if you can 00:31:15.210 --> 00:31:17.470 find yourself a private practice, that's already 00:31:17.470 --> 00:31:21.329 kind of built out and maybe just do a drop in 00:31:21.329 --> 00:31:23.470 like, Hey, like this is what I'm looking for 00:31:23.470 --> 00:31:26.359 this, you know, You kind of instill some of these 00:31:26.359 --> 00:31:28.980 values. I'd like to work with you as a contractor 00:31:28.980 --> 00:31:32.059 or, you know, hourly if that's the route in which 00:31:32.059 --> 00:31:34.880 you want to go. I think doing being a little 00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:38.359 bit more bold in these and in this time is like 00:31:38.359 --> 00:31:40.759 it's so important for us to be bold and just 00:31:40.759 --> 00:31:43.140 put ourselves out there. I think sometimes we 00:31:43.140 --> 00:31:46.240 get into our own head more than we should, you 00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:49.880 know, and so. I think boldness is good. Is that 00:31:49.880 --> 00:31:52.099 really what's going on right now in the job market? 00:31:52.299 --> 00:31:54.380 Like are people not finding jobs because there 00:31:54.380 --> 00:31:56.880 are patients for sure. People are not finding 00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:00.400 jobs. Yeah. People are not finding jobs. It's, 00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:04.440 you know, geographically that matters and, you 00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:07.940 know, what people are accepting pay wise, but 00:32:07.940 --> 00:32:11.960 for sure it's a struggle, you know? So I think 00:32:11.960 --> 00:32:14.299 just like getting creative, the last provider 00:32:14.299 --> 00:32:18.759 I interviewed, he hired. his providers from LinkedIn 00:32:18.759 --> 00:32:21.079 you know and LinkedIn I think is like an underrated 00:32:21.079 --> 00:32:24.720 tool where it's like get your profile updated 00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:27.779 you know have it reflect if you do a mentorship 00:32:27.779 --> 00:32:30.200 program or a fellowship put that on there like 00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:32.640 put anything that's going to differentiate yourself 00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:35.380 on there have a professional headshot you know 00:32:35.380 --> 00:32:38.599 what I mean like that can make a big difference 00:32:38.599 --> 00:32:42.680 so Yeah, absolutely. A hundred percent. So I 00:32:42.680 --> 00:32:44.779 don't know, you know, that boldness, I just feel 00:32:44.779 --> 00:32:46.440 like it just kind of puts you out there and says 00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:48.180 like, Hey, this is what I want to do. And this 00:32:48.180 --> 00:32:50.259 is why I want to work for your company. You know, 00:32:50.279 --> 00:32:51.819 I think that that's the most important piece. 00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:55.000 Yeah. Did networking come pretty like easy for 00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:57.859 you? Are you pretty like social person? Like 00:32:57.859 --> 00:33:02.640 as far as like, yeah, just networking and meeting 00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:05.450 other providers. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely 00:33:05.450 --> 00:33:07.549 right. You have to start, you have to be confident 00:33:07.549 --> 00:33:09.930 in what you're talking about. So is that hard 00:33:09.930 --> 00:33:11.470 the first couple of times? Yeah, absolutely. 00:33:11.750 --> 00:33:13.549 But at the end of the day, I think, you know, 00:33:13.569 --> 00:33:16.130 it's not like people aren't really quizzing each 00:33:16.130 --> 00:33:19.089 other on what knowledge you have. It's like, 00:33:19.109 --> 00:33:22.009 are you personable? Can you, can you carry a 00:33:22.009 --> 00:33:25.029 conversation? Do you feel like these are skills, 00:33:25.089 --> 00:33:27.859 you know, that you really, it's not going to 00:33:27.859 --> 00:33:30.140 be in -depth conversations where it's like, we're 00:33:30.140 --> 00:33:32.279 going to quiz every bit of knowledge that you 00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:34.599 have right now. So yeah, no, a hundred percent. 00:33:35.140 --> 00:33:37.460 How long are your follow -up appointments in 00:33:37.460 --> 00:33:39.059 your practice? And what percentage would you 00:33:39.059 --> 00:33:42.599 say of the providers or what percentage of the 00:33:42.599 --> 00:33:45.480 follow -up appointments do you guys build psychotherapy? 00:33:45.500 --> 00:33:48.380 And would you say roughly? Probably roughly about 00:33:48.380 --> 00:33:52.140 50 to 60 % of psychotherapy. We do 30 minute 00:33:52.140 --> 00:33:54.400 appointments. So I really try to incorporate 00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:58.200 that as much for our follow -ups. For our intakes, 00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:01.759 we're closer to the 90 minute, you know, 60 to 00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:03.819 90 minutes. Everything's blocked at 60 minutes, 00:34:03.880 --> 00:34:06.500 but there's a lot of appointments that if I am 00:34:06.500 --> 00:34:08.860 afforded the time, I go into the 90 minute mark 00:34:08.860 --> 00:34:11.300 because it's like, there's so much information 00:34:11.300 --> 00:34:13.139 to obtain in that first initial appointment. 00:34:13.380 --> 00:34:18.570 Yeah. A hundred percent. Have you reinvested 00:34:18.570 --> 00:34:21.530 profits back into your business, would you say? 00:34:21.690 --> 00:34:25.309 And if yes, how so? And do you think that's important? 00:34:25.710 --> 00:34:28.369 I definitely in marketing. Absolutely. Like I 00:34:28.369 --> 00:34:32.269 spend, I spend a large chunk of money in making 00:34:32.269 --> 00:34:35.050 sure that community involvement, engagement is 00:34:35.050 --> 00:34:38.010 where it needs to be. So that's probably my biggest 00:34:38.010 --> 00:34:39.710 one. And I really think like that's important. 00:34:39.849 --> 00:34:43.010 If you want to continue with growth, like you 00:34:43.010 --> 00:34:46.170 have to spend money to make money. Okay. And 00:34:46.170 --> 00:34:49.130 practically speaking, is that like ads or is 00:34:49.130 --> 00:34:52.610 that like. Yeah, it's ads. It's maybe dropping 00:34:52.610 --> 00:34:55.949 off some cookies. It's here's a coffee card. 00:34:56.070 --> 00:34:59.269 Let's chat, you know, over coffee. What else 00:34:59.269 --> 00:35:02.389 have I done? The ads are probably the most expensive 00:35:02.389 --> 00:35:04.909 though. And that, you know, if they, they pay 00:35:04.909 --> 00:35:07.190 off, those are a little bit harder to track though. 00:35:07.289 --> 00:35:10.110 You know what I mean? So it's really, it's like 00:35:10.110 --> 00:35:12.429 community engagement. That's I think the most 00:35:12.429 --> 00:35:16.170 key. Yeah. how did you figure out how to do ads 00:35:16.170 --> 00:35:18.849 and how much have you spent on them roughly, 00:35:18.929 --> 00:35:21.650 if you don't mind us asking? Yeah. So probably 00:35:21.650 --> 00:35:25.409 ads, I would probably say when I was like really 00:35:25.409 --> 00:35:27.690 heavy into doing ads, I've kind of paused for 00:35:27.690 --> 00:35:30.170 just a little bit on that one, but my like SEO 00:35:30.170 --> 00:35:32.829 and ads and stuff, I was paying like $800 a month 00:35:32.829 --> 00:35:35.769 in order to kind of get that up and going. And 00:35:35.769 --> 00:35:38.769 it did, it paid off. It was helpful. Any conferences 00:35:38.769 --> 00:35:43.380 or resources that you like love? as a psych NP 00:35:43.380 --> 00:35:47.300 that you would recommend to, to others? Yeah, 00:35:47.380 --> 00:35:49.920 I'm really big in open evidence right now. That 00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:52.960 one's awesome. You know, just being able to pull 00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:55.400 all that, all that information from journals 00:35:55.400 --> 00:35:58.320 has been so helpful. Carla is my favorite. He's, 00:35:58.340 --> 00:36:02.440 oh gosh, just all of his podcasts are great. 00:36:02.659 --> 00:36:06.079 His books, his decision tree models. I bought 00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:09.219 his book when I first graduated as a psych NP 00:36:09.219 --> 00:36:13.329 and that was. It's truly the best resource that 00:36:13.329 --> 00:36:15.889 I have ever used. And I still use it to this 00:36:15.889 --> 00:36:19.230 day. NEI, I utilize the resources. I don't so 00:36:19.230 --> 00:36:22.769 much go to there. Really just heavy on a lot 00:36:22.769 --> 00:36:27.090 of ad management there. And then as far as conferences, 00:36:27.309 --> 00:36:30.289 don't have anything lined up for this year. I 00:36:30.289 --> 00:36:32.650 went to a functional health one. I forgot what 00:36:32.650 --> 00:36:34.710 it was called. I'll drop that for you too. And 00:36:34.710 --> 00:36:37.219 that was great. I did that. probably about two 00:36:37.219 --> 00:36:40.139 years ago. I did NEI as well, like a couple of 00:36:40.139 --> 00:36:43.059 years ago, that one was good. I try to get one 00:36:43.059 --> 00:36:46.380 in at least a year. So. Okay. Awesome. Awesome. 00:36:47.199 --> 00:36:49.679 And I know we're jumping around here, but what, 00:36:49.739 --> 00:36:52.400 what percentage of your referrals would you say 00:36:52.400 --> 00:36:55.239 come from like therapists and other providers, 00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:58.059 I guess, in the community? Yeah, I would probably 00:36:58.059 --> 00:37:01.460 say like, honestly, a solid 60 % are coming from 00:37:01.460 --> 00:37:03.780 therapists. Yeah, I've been in some really good 00:37:03.780 --> 00:37:05.480 relationships with therapists in the community. 00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:09.280 So that's really a large chunk of where those 00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:11.599 are coming from. And then I've got a really a 00:37:11.599 --> 00:37:14.739 lot of primary care offices that I'm connected 00:37:14.739 --> 00:37:17.519 with as well. And so we take care of their mental 00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:20.460 health stuff. You know, we do a fax back after 00:37:20.460 --> 00:37:23.880 we see them, you know, that truly helps kind 00:37:23.880 --> 00:37:26.960 of solidify that relationship. Yeah. So you, 00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:30.559 you're sure to like coordinate care and like 00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:35.059 kind of continue to provide that level of continuity 00:37:35.059 --> 00:37:38.880 so that they see the value of continuing to refer. 00:37:39.119 --> 00:37:43.280 Yeah, absolutely. Yep. I love that. What do you 00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:48.820 do self -care wise to like try to manage, you 00:37:48.820 --> 00:37:52.880 know, life? Yeah, absolutely. I, you know, this 00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:55.440 last year has been the worst for me for exercise. 00:37:55.480 --> 00:37:58.610 Like, yeah. so bad. It's the worst it's ever 00:37:58.610 --> 00:38:00.889 been in my adult life. So trying to get back 00:38:00.889 --> 00:38:03.070 into that. My husband loves to golf. I really 00:38:03.070 --> 00:38:05.010 like to golf too. So I've been getting into that 00:38:05.010 --> 00:38:07.489 a little bit more frequently. And I just told 00:38:07.489 --> 00:38:09.289 myself I was going to sign up for a half marathon. 00:38:09.469 --> 00:38:11.230 Maybe I'll do that before the end of the year. 00:38:11.230 --> 00:38:14.309 So that'll maybe just push me into back and getting 00:38:14.309 --> 00:38:17.210 back into the exercise space. Yeah. I love that. 00:38:17.530 --> 00:38:20.250 I love that. Good for you. Anything else that 00:38:20.250 --> 00:38:24.289 you think that psych NPs should know in 2026, 00:38:24.389 --> 00:38:27.409 as far as just like advice, having been in the 00:38:27.409 --> 00:38:30.769 game for, I guess, what, six years now as a psych 00:38:30.769 --> 00:38:33.409 NP? Yeah. Get yourself a really good mentor, 00:38:33.610 --> 00:38:35.949 you know, get yourself somebody that you can, 00:38:35.949 --> 00:38:39.369 you can lean in on. That's going to assist with 00:38:39.369 --> 00:38:41.190 maybe some decision -making when it gets, when 00:38:41.190 --> 00:38:44.510 it seems like it's messy. I oftentimes will tell 00:38:44.510 --> 00:38:46.570 myself when I have, and I still tell myself this, 00:38:46.610 --> 00:38:48.570 if I get, have like a messy intake and I'm like, 00:38:48.610 --> 00:38:51.510 wow, there's a lot going on here. One thing at 00:38:51.510 --> 00:38:53.329 a time. We're just going to deal with the, you 00:38:53.329 --> 00:38:55.250 know, we're going to start with step one. And 00:38:55.250 --> 00:38:57.869 so what is step one? Typically for me, step one 00:38:57.869 --> 00:39:00.489 is sleep. If my patient is sleeping overall, 00:39:00.889 --> 00:39:04.110 you know, a large chunk of their symptoms are 00:39:04.110 --> 00:39:06.550 going to start to find relief. So if you can 00:39:06.550 --> 00:39:08.550 start to develop some of those protocols in your 00:39:08.550 --> 00:39:11.409 mind, have a mentor that you can maybe, you know, 00:39:11.409 --> 00:39:14.949 chat with about, you know, being in inside of 00:39:14.949 --> 00:39:18.099 your program or. Outside of your program, I just 00:39:18.099 --> 00:39:20.820 feel like that is crucial. We should not be doing 00:39:20.820 --> 00:39:22.719 this alone. We should be doing this as a team. 00:39:23.159 --> 00:39:26.340 We should be able to have collaboration. I think 00:39:26.340 --> 00:39:28.719 that's forgotten about in the school setting. 00:39:28.840 --> 00:39:31.380 You just are like, oh, okay, survival of the 00:39:31.380 --> 00:39:33.340 fittest. Like, let's make sure it happens. And 00:39:33.340 --> 00:39:35.340 it's like, oh my gosh, there's no way. Like, 00:39:35.340 --> 00:39:39.980 this is really people's lives, the people's livelihoods. 00:39:39.980 --> 00:39:42.880 And so we need to make sure that we have the 00:39:42.880 --> 00:39:46.869 most appropriate protocols in place. Yeah. Absolutely. 00:39:47.510 --> 00:39:49.849 One last question. Well, actually two last questions. 00:39:50.170 --> 00:39:53.909 So working with these platforms like Headway 00:39:53.909 --> 00:39:59.409 and Alma is controversial, right? You hear a 00:39:59.409 --> 00:40:01.610 lot of like black and white polarized opinions. 00:40:02.170 --> 00:40:04.570 So that's another reason why I wanted to kind 00:40:04.570 --> 00:40:06.909 of talk about some of this on the podcast because 00:40:06.909 --> 00:40:09.710 I don't think it's black and white, but do you 00:40:09.710 --> 00:40:12.679 recommend them? Yeah. I mean, I would for startup. 00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:15.900 I still use them. I absolutely, I've had really 00:40:15.900 --> 00:40:20.440 a very positive just interaction with using them. 00:40:20.539 --> 00:40:24.039 I have quick payout, um, an easy way to build 00:40:24.039 --> 00:40:27.500 a practice. You're able to integrate some group 00:40:27.500 --> 00:40:30.300 stuff, but. I really think it's so important 00:40:30.300 --> 00:40:31.920 that you're credentialing on the back end too. 00:40:31.980 --> 00:40:33.840 We don't know what's going to happen. You know, 00:40:33.860 --> 00:40:35.900 like these are tech industries. We have to remember 00:40:35.900 --> 00:40:39.059 that at the end of the day. Yeah, they do have 00:40:39.059 --> 00:40:41.099 people that are running these programs that, 00:40:41.099 --> 00:40:43.900 you know, are credentialed. that they can, they 00:40:43.900 --> 00:40:47.179 can absolutely speak for, you know, the billing 00:40:47.179 --> 00:40:49.400 purposes and protocols and things like that. 00:40:49.460 --> 00:40:51.000 But it's important at the end of the day, if 00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:53.360 these were to go under, how would that shake 00:40:53.360 --> 00:40:56.199 the industry? And I think it would shake it pretty 00:40:56.199 --> 00:40:59.000 heavily if they did. So it's important that we 00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:01.219 have a backup plan ourselves, you know, that 00:41:01.219 --> 00:41:03.280 we're individually credentialed, our business 00:41:03.280 --> 00:41:05.559 is credentialed. And we, if something changed 00:41:05.559 --> 00:41:07.679 tomorrow, we could, we wouldn't skip a beat. 00:41:08.340 --> 00:41:11.260 Yeah. I think that I totally agree with you where 00:41:11.260 --> 00:41:14.090 it's like, I think that there's a place for these 00:41:14.090 --> 00:41:17.150 platforms, you know, and a time and, but also 00:41:17.150 --> 00:41:20.190 like longer term plan, you know, diversifying 00:41:20.190 --> 00:41:23.469 and getting credentialed like that is important 00:41:23.469 --> 00:41:27.329 as well. So yeah, I agree. I agree completely. 00:41:27.469 --> 00:41:30.030 So one other question I ask every provider this, 00:41:30.210 --> 00:41:34.170 what does the term no prior auth mean to you? 00:41:34.610 --> 00:41:39.559 Ooh, good one. We come as we are. Here we are. 00:41:39.820 --> 00:41:44.019 And we don't need that prayer off. So I love 00:41:44.019 --> 00:41:47.039 it. I love it. That's a good one. Well, thank 00:41:47.039 --> 00:41:49.739 you so much, Robin, for taking the time to share 00:41:49.739 --> 00:41:53.679 your expertise and knowledge with us. Hopefully 00:41:53.679 --> 00:41:56.599 I'll have you on again in the future and we can 00:41:56.599 --> 00:41:59.519 kind of get updates as far as like just how things 00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:01.860 are progressing for you. I just want more and 00:42:01.860 --> 00:42:06.119 more psych NPs to. have access to this kind of 00:42:06.119 --> 00:42:08.139 information because I know that I would have 00:42:08.139 --> 00:42:10.780 like eaten it up when I was opening my private 00:42:10.780 --> 00:42:15.099 practice. Yes, absolutely. These resources, I 00:42:15.099 --> 00:42:18.340 was digging for them. So now that you're making 00:42:18.340 --> 00:42:20.179 it a little bit more widely available, I think 00:42:20.179 --> 00:42:22.500 that that's so important. Well, thank you for 00:42:22.500 --> 00:42:25.340 being transparent. We appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks 00:42:25.340 --> 00:42:27.800 for having me. Of course. Bye Robin.