WEBVTT 00:00:00.311 --> 00:00:01.247 Ahem. 00:00:01.816 --> 00:00:03.428 So welcome back everyone. 00:00:03.428 --> 00:00:13.497 Today's guest is Navdeep Dalia who started his journey from a 22,000 starting salary to financial independence in his 30s building wealth through career growth, disciplined 00:00:13.497 --> 00:00:17.080 investing, real estate and smart long-term decisions. 00:00:17.081 --> 00:00:26.029 So Navdeep a lot of people see the end result right the financial independence multiple properties or strong corpus, but they don't see the person you had to become to get there. 00:00:26.029 --> 00:00:27.550 So let's start from there. 00:00:28.865 --> 00:00:33.416 All right, thank you very much for having me on your podcast. 00:00:33.416 --> 00:00:37.857 So the journey has been uh long, but it's been enjoyable, very, very enjoyable. 00:00:37.857 --> 00:00:43.779 uh Very typical journey to begin with, coming from a very typical family. 00:00:43.779 --> 00:00:50.481 uh Well-brought-up uh kid I was, so to say, like a very typical kid. 00:00:50.481 --> 00:00:57.823 uh Had parents who were very grounded from very typical middle-class family. 00:00:57.943 --> 00:01:02.566 uh It wasn't that we were not doing well financially, but we were. 00:01:02.566 --> 00:01:09.211 But it wasn't that we had uh lots of money when I started off my career. 00:01:09.211 --> 00:01:12.323 So graduation went off pretty well. 00:01:12.323 --> 00:01:13.374 I was in Jalandhar. 00:01:13.374 --> 00:01:14.895 I come from a small city. 00:01:14.895 --> 00:01:20.058 And then eventually the dream was to probably do something on my own. 00:01:20.198 --> 00:01:27.443 And with that intent, I came to Noida, did my post-graduation from a very normal institution. 00:01:28.923 --> 00:01:36.366 Yeah, I was pretty decent with my studies, but yeah, when I started off, um I didn't have any idea where I wanted to be. 00:01:36.366 --> 00:01:45.448 But yeah, the idea was that I wanted to do something of my own and maybe get to a point where I would be able to support my family in one way or the other. 00:01:45.568 --> 00:01:50.970 And I got a job when I was 23 years old after my MBA. 00:01:50.970 --> 00:01:53.443 It was back in 2009. 00:01:54.123 --> 00:02:03.771 the financial crisis since you are in US, you would know had hit us in a big way in 2008 and 2009 probably was the worst time for the job market. 00:02:03.771 --> 00:02:06.133 And that is when we were supposed to get placed. 00:02:06.133 --> 00:02:19.304 So the starting salary, as you pointed out, was only 22,000 rupees at that time, which after spending money on my MBA, you know, doing everything possible to do an MBA uh did 00:02:19.304 --> 00:02:23.477 seem a little less, but it was good enough to, you know, 00:02:23.497 --> 00:02:25.308 let that year pass by. 00:02:25.749 --> 00:02:35.155 And ah then from there, things progressed and I switched my job from that 22,000 salary to another one which paid me 26,000 rupees. 00:02:35.696 --> 00:02:46.923 And then from there on, I stayed on with that company for a period of 10 years, left that company with a salary of around one and a half lakhs a month. 00:02:47.104 --> 00:02:50.265 And I was the associate director at that time. 00:02:50.666 --> 00:02:52.467 then I started my own company. 00:02:52.683 --> 00:02:55.304 Dial education, which is into education. 00:02:56.025 --> 00:02:58.806 And uh yeah, along the way, I saved a bit. 00:02:58.806 --> 00:03:09.851 uh Had that habit of investing in real estate, which came from the family because typically if you go back now, people talk about mutual funds and stocks and whatnot. 00:03:09.851 --> 00:03:14.723 But back in the day, people didn't talk too much about these kinds of investments. 00:03:14.723 --> 00:03:19.595 The only two investments people thought of was either real estate or fixed deposits. 00:03:19.595 --> 00:03:20.971 uh 00:03:20.971 --> 00:03:23.973 And that is what I also typically did. 00:03:23.973 --> 00:03:28.116 Because I was in Delhi NCR, I am from Jalandhar. 00:03:28.116 --> 00:03:30.568 So I wanted a place where I could crash. 00:03:30.568 --> 00:03:33.380 I wanted a place of my own from the very beginning. 00:03:33.380 --> 00:03:40.725 Because back in the day, 2009, this wasn't even a conversation whether you should have your own house or you should always rent. 00:03:41.026 --> 00:03:43.528 Now it's a hot topic, but back in the day, it wasn't. 00:03:43.528 --> 00:03:44.629 It wasn't even a topic. 00:03:44.629 --> 00:03:47.931 You always wanted a house wherever you lived. 00:03:48.289 --> 00:03:51.299 So I also like a very typical person who wanted a house. 00:03:51.299 --> 00:03:58.362 So wherever I could in the minimum amount of money that I had, had about one and a half lakhs that I saved in my first job. 00:03:58.522 --> 00:04:04.283 And with that one and a half lakh, I purchased a construction linked property in Sonipat, which is in the outskirts of Delhi NCR. 00:04:04.283 --> 00:04:07.784 I thought in Delhi, though, obviously it's not possible to buy anything. 00:04:07.904 --> 00:04:11.255 And I had done my MBA from Noida and Noida was also relatively expensive. 00:04:11.255 --> 00:04:17.621 I thought maybe in 15, 16 lakhs, I get something in Sonipat, which is about 40 kilometers from 00:04:17.621 --> 00:04:19.372 where my first job was. 00:04:19.372 --> 00:04:24.895 And I thought my entire life is going ah to be here in that part of Delhi. 00:04:24.895 --> 00:04:27.667 And in all my naivety, I bought that property. 00:04:27.667 --> 00:04:29.738 And that is how my first investment happened. 00:04:29.738 --> 00:04:33.345 And from there on, I bought another property in 2014. 00:04:33.345 --> 00:04:35.591 And then in 2017, I bought another one. 00:04:35.591 --> 00:04:38.602 Along the way, a lot of investment, which we would unfold. 00:04:38.602 --> 00:04:42.074 ah There are a lot of my podcasts that are already there. 00:04:42.074 --> 00:04:44.766 So we'll quickly sum that up. 00:04:44.926 --> 00:04:47.059 But yeah, that is how my journey has been. 00:04:47.059 --> 00:04:56.846 Very typical from a middle-class family, was raised well, always had that thing that you should save something, whatever you earn you should save. 00:04:57.047 --> 00:05:03.530 And with that saving, with discipline, with consistency, I've been able to build what I've been able to build over the years. 00:05:05.634 --> 00:05:07.116 Nice, really interesting story. 00:05:07.116 --> 00:05:12.281 um So what was your relationship with money while growing up? 00:05:12.562 --> 00:05:16.936 I know you said you come from a middle class background, so what was that relationship with money like? 00:05:17.153 --> 00:05:26.178 See, relationship with money was very, simple because I didn't have too many thoughts at that time. 00:05:26.178 --> 00:05:30.971 And I'm coming from oh my practical experiences only. 00:05:30.971 --> 00:05:40.357 If I had 500 rupees as my pocket money, the only thing was that 500 rupees should not finish before the next 500 rupees come. 00:05:40.357 --> 00:05:42.038 It was as simple as that. 00:05:42.038 --> 00:05:44.519 So it wasn't very, 00:05:50.903 --> 00:05:54.086 Sorry, I think it was cut in between. 00:05:55.170 --> 00:05:57.123 Yeah, you can go ahead. 00:05:57.123 --> 00:05:58.024 Yeah. 00:05:58.632 --> 00:06:10.446 So I was saying my um relationship with money when I was graduating, when I had not started earning, I was getting typical pocket money of 500 rupees a month in my graduation 00:06:10.446 --> 00:06:11.296 also. 00:06:11.296 --> 00:06:12.696 And it was very, very typical. 00:06:12.696 --> 00:06:18.738 The idea was that 500 rupees should not finish before the next 500 rupees arrive from your dad. 00:06:18.738 --> 00:06:20.719 So that is how it started. 00:06:21.823 --> 00:06:29.631 That taught us budgeting in a sense that how much should go into petrol, how much should go into your enjoyment, et cetera. 00:06:29.652 --> 00:06:32.605 And I think that indicated when I got my first salary as well. 00:06:32.605 --> 00:06:38.301 When I got my first salary in 2009, uh it was 22,000 rupees. 00:06:38.301 --> 00:06:44.497 And I knew that I have to manage everything within 22,000 rupees and try and save something from it. 00:06:46.881 --> 00:06:50.481 So that was the idea with which I started. 00:06:51.341 --> 00:06:55.340 during that time with your 22,000 salary? 00:06:55.851 --> 00:07:10.757 I was able to save almost 50 % of my salary because that is also very, very interesting because I used to live in a shared uh apartment when I was doing my MBA. 00:07:10.757 --> 00:07:20.321 uh And I kind of continued to do that even when I was doing my job because I got placed while I was doing my MBA. 00:07:20.321 --> 00:07:21.942 So my MBA was supposed to end in June. 00:07:21.942 --> 00:07:25.687 I got placed in January, a typical pre-placement offer I got. 00:07:25.687 --> 00:07:27.378 So they called me that you should join. 00:07:27.378 --> 00:07:35.931 So where I was staying, like a student where I had to keep my expenses to the very bare minimum, so I kept it like that only and I started working. 00:07:35.931 --> 00:07:42.394 So in those six months, I earned 22,000 rupees a month, got some incentives at the end of the year as well. 00:07:42.714 --> 00:07:48.416 And oh my expenses didn't go through the roof suddenly because I was earning. 00:07:48.956 --> 00:07:55.543 I kept my expenses to the very minimal because I was living the student life only, because I was in that. 00:07:55.543 --> 00:07:57.403 kind in that scenario only. 00:07:57.403 --> 00:07:59.003 I didn't change my scenario completely. 00:07:59.003 --> 00:08:03.423 It wasn't that I started, you know, living extravagantly. 00:08:03.423 --> 00:08:04.583 It wasn't like that. 00:08:04.583 --> 00:08:06.923 So it went on like that. 00:08:07.123 --> 00:08:12.723 And luckily, I was able to save about 50 % of my salary, I got some incentives. 00:08:12.723 --> 00:08:16.283 So total, I got about 3 lakhs in that one year. 00:08:16.783 --> 00:08:18.983 And I was able to save about one and a half lakhs. 00:08:18.983 --> 00:08:24.283 And with that one and a half lakhs only, I bought my first property when I was 23 in January 2010. 00:08:24.447 --> 00:08:26.047 invested in that property. 00:08:26.628 --> 00:08:30.419 And uh like I told you, that was the only thing that I could buy. 00:08:30.419 --> 00:08:31.949 That was the only thing I knew. 00:08:31.949 --> 00:08:32.669 So I did that. 00:08:32.669 --> 00:08:48.254 oh Whether it was right or wrong, I later realized that it wasn't great in terms of the returns that I got, but it was great in terms of the discipline that I was able to get 00:08:48.254 --> 00:08:53.045 into because of that one thing, because I had to then commit to that for a period of 00:08:53.163 --> 00:09:00.087 you know, seven, eight, 10 years, because every year I had to pay one and a half lakhs into that construction linked property. 00:09:00.087 --> 00:09:02.608 So that brought in some discipline. 00:09:02.748 --> 00:09:10.072 And while, you know, while I'm talking to, I'm just thinking that there was a point in 2014 when I bought my second property. 00:09:10.072 --> 00:09:14.054 At that time I was doing an SIP of 10,000 rupees. 00:09:14.134 --> 00:09:20.458 I was paying an EMI of 25,000 rupees for the second house that I bought in Noida. 00:09:20.498 --> 00:09:22.999 And I was kind of 00:09:23.838 --> 00:09:27.439 setting out 12 to 15 thousand rupees for this property as well. 00:09:27.439 --> 00:09:39.259 So typically at that time from 2014 onwards, it's been 12 years, I've been kind of investing minimum of 50 thousand rupees and that carried on for a very very long time for 00:09:39.259 --> 00:09:49.103 almost 8-9 years and because it was split into three, I felt I wasn't investing too much but when I look back 00:09:49.439 --> 00:10:00.758 In 2014 onwards, from 2014 onwards, I have been investing at least 50,000 rupees uh into my corpus, whatever I have been able to build today. 00:10:00.758 --> 00:10:03.571 So it hasn't happened in a jiffy. 00:10:03.571 --> 00:10:05.252 It has taken a lot of time. 00:10:05.252 --> 00:10:07.774 It has taken some wise decisions. 00:10:07.774 --> 00:10:10.055 It has taken some stupid decisions. 00:10:10.456 --> 00:10:15.260 It has taken a lot of turns along the way. 00:10:15.260 --> 00:10:16.381 And that is where we are. 00:10:16.381 --> 00:10:19.147 uh If somebody asked me today that 00:10:19.147 --> 00:10:23.755 Whether I could have got, instead of five, I could have been at seven or 10. 00:10:23.755 --> 00:10:24.927 I could have been there as well. 00:10:24.927 --> 00:10:28.603 But I'm happy with how it unfolded. 00:10:29.654 --> 00:10:30.175 Nice. 00:10:30.175 --> 00:10:35.590 So you said that your first house was kind of like, you know, you didn't know if that was a good decision or no. 00:10:35.590 --> 00:10:38.763 So what made you to buy the second house? 00:10:38.763 --> 00:10:43.848 ah You know, after that, like, why would you go into real estate again? 00:10:44.229 --> 00:10:49.694 And why wasn't equity like your choice or mutual fund your choice of investment? 00:10:50.187 --> 00:10:51.807 Because I didn't understand it. 00:10:51.948 --> 00:10:54.649 Back in 2014, I didn't understand it at all. 00:10:54.649 --> 00:11:01.952 I had one investment in 2013 that I had started investing into mutual, which was ELSS, just to save taxes. 00:11:01.952 --> 00:11:07.624 um So it was 10,000 rupees that I was investing into SIP, and that was it. 00:11:07.624 --> 00:11:13.236 And I didn't even know whether it was the right mutual fund or not a right one. 00:11:13.417 --> 00:11:14.817 I didn't do any research. 00:11:14.817 --> 00:11:15.828 I just asked someone. 00:11:15.828 --> 00:11:17.498 They said, OK, invest in this one. 00:11:17.498 --> 00:11:19.031 You'll be able to save some tax. 00:11:19.031 --> 00:11:20.812 So in 2013, I didn't know. 00:11:20.972 --> 00:11:31.561 And that is why I only thought the way to investment is that you invest into real estate, hold it for a long time, or invest into FDs, hold it for a long time. 00:11:31.561 --> 00:11:33.903 It would generate wealth over a period of time. 00:11:33.903 --> 00:11:42.170 It was only around 2016 when I had seen three years of my mutual funds that I had invested in, starting 2013. 00:11:42.170 --> 00:11:48.815 Then I realized that this mutual fund alone is giving me a 12 % 00:11:49.007 --> 00:11:52.770 of XIRR, which is the return on the investment. 00:11:53.411 --> 00:11:58.535 And I felt, you know, why then put it into NFD or anything? 00:11:58.535 --> 00:12:00.436 Why not put it into this? 00:12:00.617 --> 00:12:06.301 Because my idea is that if I'm investing into something, I have that kind of discipline. 00:12:06.301 --> 00:12:12.266 Even in real estate, I have thought when I invested that I would have to hold it for a very long time. 00:12:12.266 --> 00:12:15.869 If I hold it for that long, any investment, it would grow. 00:12:15.869 --> 00:12:18.330 And if I see the percentage, why is this this 00:12:18.953 --> 00:12:22.715 you know, particular investment gives me a percentage growth. 00:12:22.715 --> 00:12:23.846 So why not do that? 00:12:23.846 --> 00:12:35.292 So equity happened when I understood it after investing into it for a period of three years when I saw it firsthand, then I started investing into it. 00:12:35.292 --> 00:12:39.675 Otherwise, I am a difficult person to influence. 00:12:39.675 --> 00:12:42.036 You know, I influence myself. 00:12:42.576 --> 00:12:45.377 It's very difficult for somebody to influence me. 00:12:45.518 --> 00:12:48.149 And I have kept it like that only for 00:12:48.203 --> 00:12:50.964 for a large portion of my life. 00:12:51.285 --> 00:12:54.606 I have a very selective people that I trust. 00:12:55.087 --> 00:13:02.131 And uh they also tell me that it's very difficult to kind of change your mind when you have set out something for yourself. 00:13:02.131 --> 00:13:03.021 It's very difficult. 00:13:03.021 --> 00:13:05.773 So maybe you could put me into a stubborn category. 00:13:05.773 --> 00:13:06.753 So that was the thing. 00:13:06.753 --> 00:13:09.024 I always felt that real estate was my thing. 00:13:09.024 --> 00:13:17.959 And in 2017, also, when I bought my own house, the idea was that I would sell my two houses and invest into my own, and I will live in it. 00:13:18.475 --> 00:13:24.721 But because we were in a position, me and my wife, were in a position where we could leverage ourselves and we bought the third property. 00:13:24.922 --> 00:13:27.354 And we were able to pay that off as well. 00:13:27.354 --> 00:13:31.809 And that's how we were able to build a portfolio of real estate. 00:13:31.809 --> 00:13:41.629 Plus, because we had started investing in mutual funds in 2013, 2014, that has also become a significant part of our overall wealth. 00:13:44.672 --> 00:13:44.982 Nice. 00:13:44.982 --> 00:13:55.540 So at any point did you take any loans or debt for your houses and if yes, what do people generally underestimate about it? 00:13:56.823 --> 00:14:08.103 See I have taken loans, took a loan for my second property, took a loan for my third property, I took a loan for you know three cars I bought along the way. 00:14:08.223 --> 00:14:10.303 So loans have been big part of my life. 00:14:10.303 --> 00:14:16.303 Today I sit loan free, not even a personal loan, car loan, nothing. 00:14:16.303 --> 00:14:20.123 I don't even have, I have one credit card that is there because I travel. 00:14:20.123 --> 00:14:23.123 So I need, you know, a lounge access or something. 00:14:23.123 --> 00:14:25.203 So I kept one credit card for that. 00:14:25.203 --> 00:14:26.883 I don't use credit card. 00:14:27.028 --> 00:14:30.177 Sometimes I do, but usually I don't do it. 00:14:30.177 --> 00:14:34.349 oh Second part of your question. 00:14:36.020 --> 00:14:41.731 What people underestimate about debt is that they don't understand that it comes at a cost. 00:14:41.772 --> 00:14:44.993 It comes at a cost from the very first day. 00:14:44.993 --> 00:14:51.454 So if you've taken a one-crore debt, every single month you're going to pay the cost of it. 00:14:51.454 --> 00:14:52.835 People don't realize it. 00:14:52.835 --> 00:14:56.306 When they are paying an EMI, they're just thinking that they are repaying their loan. 00:14:56.306 --> 00:14:58.216 They're not repaying the loan. 00:14:58.216 --> 00:15:02.688 That is just a fraction of the EMI that you're paying. 00:15:02.688 --> 00:15:03.978 If you're paying 50,000, maybe 00:15:04.606 --> 00:15:06.857 a small fraction of it would go into principal rest. 00:15:06.857 --> 00:15:09.847 It would go into the interest. 00:15:09.988 --> 00:15:11.438 So people don't understand that. 00:15:11.438 --> 00:15:15.089 think, 20 years journey, 25 years journey, I'll pay it off. 00:15:15.089 --> 00:15:15.919 It's a big burden. 00:15:15.919 --> 00:15:19.610 So you need to be very, very wise. 00:15:19.730 --> 00:15:24.351 Stay within your capacity, or maybe stay under your capacity. 00:15:24.531 --> 00:15:25.852 Then you'll have breathing space. 00:15:25.852 --> 00:15:34.384 So the cost of debt is something which is very simple, but that is something that people underestimate big time. 00:15:35.928 --> 00:15:36.460 Got it. 00:15:36.460 --> 00:15:38.186 So going back to your career, right? 00:15:38.186 --> 00:15:43.582 What specific career decisions had the biggest financial impact according to you? 00:15:44.822 --> 00:15:52.649 oh I think moving from Delhi to Gurgaon was big. 00:15:52.649 --> 00:15:53.949 That was a big career shift. 00:15:53.949 --> 00:16:01.606 uh I never, like I told you, I never thought that I would be moving out of Delhi because I had bought a house thinking that I would be in Delhi for the rest of my life. 00:16:01.606 --> 00:16:12.865 So moving from Delhi to Gurgaon was a big deal for me and it changed my perspective about uh corporate world as well because uh Gurgaon had that hustle culture, it still has, but 00:16:12.865 --> 00:16:14.254 at that time it was 00:16:14.254 --> 00:16:15.254 It was big time. 00:16:15.254 --> 00:16:21.469 ah And that taught me that if you want to survive in a city like this, that you need to hustle. 00:16:21.469 --> 00:16:26.182 You need to grow, and you can grow because the city is growing like crazy. 00:16:26.182 --> 00:16:27.443 And it was growing like crazy. 00:16:27.443 --> 00:16:28.284 Still is. 00:16:28.284 --> 00:16:33.907 But back in 2010, because I had nothing, it was growing exponentially. 00:16:34.288 --> 00:16:41.033 So I knew that was an opportunity for me, and I think that changed oh a lot of things uh in my career. 00:16:41.033 --> 00:16:43.614 Otherwise, if I think if I was in Delhi, 00:16:43.924 --> 00:16:49.822 continued with that job, with that culture, taking nothing away from Delhi culture. 00:16:49.822 --> 00:16:54.409 Delhi has a great culture, but Gurgaon had that hustle culture for a 23, 24 year old. 00:16:54.409 --> 00:16:58.854 I think it was just the right environment to be in and that changed everything. 00:17:00.460 --> 00:17:00.810 Nice. 00:17:00.810 --> 00:17:05.173 So what did you do differently from your peers you think? 00:17:05.173 --> 00:17:08.925 Because I'm sure not all of them have achieved what you were able to achieve, right? 00:17:08.925 --> 00:17:13.248 So what is that something that you did differently, you know, according to you? 00:17:14.592 --> 00:17:17.524 I think I did simple things, right? 00:17:17.844 --> 00:17:20.406 It wasn't that I was doing something extraordinary. 00:17:20.406 --> 00:17:21.327 It wasn't like that. 00:17:21.327 --> 00:17:26.600 So like I told you, oh what I'm getting, I'm not spending all of it. 00:17:26.600 --> 00:17:29.652 I'm keeping some part of it with me. 00:17:29.653 --> 00:17:41.200 And by the situation I was into, I had to save something for the investment that I had done, which a lot of other people had not done. 00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:43.606 oh 00:17:43.606 --> 00:17:47.426 good or bad, I don't know, but they didn't have those kinds of investments. 00:17:47.426 --> 00:17:49.746 They had not indulged into those investments. 00:17:50.046 --> 00:17:55.106 I had, and I always had that sword hanging over my head that I have to pay that EMI. 00:17:55.106 --> 00:18:00.246 I have to save for that installment that I have to pay for that Sony flat as well. 00:18:00.246 --> 00:18:07.686 And I had that SIP also going at that time in 2013 and all the other investments starting from 2010 only. 00:18:07.746 --> 00:18:13.654 So I think that was something which was forced upon me and that was something different that I did from my peer group. 00:18:13.654 --> 00:18:16.794 They didn't have that kind of investment so early in their lives. 00:18:16.794 --> 00:18:24.814 So they were spending most of it or maybe saving into those instruments which were not giving them those kind of returns or maybe doing I don't know what. 00:18:24.814 --> 00:18:36.994 But I think that was something that was different in my journey compared to my peer group because I can't recall anybody working with me at that time having two properties when I 00:18:36.994 --> 00:18:42.574 was probably 27 or something. 00:18:42.932 --> 00:18:46.344 I had two properties and one SIP going. 00:18:46.684 --> 00:18:49.265 Yes, on debt, but I had that. 00:18:49.265 --> 00:18:58.250 oh So I had to save something from my salary and invest into those investments that I had taken up. 00:18:58.250 --> 00:19:00.472 So I think that was the differentiating point. 00:19:00.472 --> 00:19:03.834 So I started investing or putting aside money very early. 00:19:03.834 --> 00:19:08.696 So 2014, when I look back, is when I was saving around 50,000 rupees a month. 00:19:09.477 --> 00:19:10.437 Because I had to. 00:19:10.437 --> 00:19:11.418 There was no other option. 00:19:11.418 --> 00:19:12.528 I had to save. 00:19:12.630 --> 00:19:19.210 So if I was getting about 75,000, 80,000 rupees at the time, I had to put aside 50,000 rupees. 00:19:19.290 --> 00:19:22.630 So was managing my expenses within about 20,000, 25,000 rupees. 00:19:22.630 --> 00:19:26.890 And back in the day, it was very much possible for a single person. 00:19:26.970 --> 00:19:34.250 It wasn't beyond your imagination to spend your month in about 15,000, 20,000 rupees. 00:19:34.250 --> 00:19:35.490 It was manageable. 00:19:35.490 --> 00:19:36.370 I've done it. 00:19:36.370 --> 00:19:37.871 So it was manageable. 00:19:37.871 --> 00:19:42.144 what you say is probably was your mistake was actually one of your biggest trends as well. 00:19:42.144 --> 00:19:42.364 Right? 00:19:42.364 --> 00:19:46.546 Like because you had those properties you knew you have to pay off those EMI. 00:19:46.546 --> 00:19:49.174 So you have to be realistic on or savings. 00:19:49.174 --> 00:19:50.354 Right, right. 00:19:50.354 --> 00:19:56.554 But in those mistakes, one right thing that I did was that I didn't go overboard with those investments. 00:19:56.554 --> 00:19:59.054 It wasn't like I bought a one-crore house at that time. 00:19:59.054 --> 00:20:05.354 If I did that, then I would have been in a big problem because I would not have been able to pay. 00:20:05.354 --> 00:20:09.474 I wouldn't have had that kind of flexibility, wouldn't have had that discipline. 00:20:09.474 --> 00:20:11.614 I probably would have burdened myself. 00:20:11.614 --> 00:20:15.654 Maybe would have ended up selling one property to manage the second one. 00:20:15.654 --> 00:20:17.614 So a lot could have gone wrong. 00:20:19.442 --> 00:20:23.303 utilized my capacity, but not to the level I could have. 00:20:23.303 --> 00:20:26.164 I kept it a little under par. 00:20:26.164 --> 00:20:33.767 So that served me because salaries, they kept growing and my investment, the EMIs, they stayed at that level. 00:20:33.767 --> 00:20:37.728 And then as the salary grew, I started putting little extra into my EMIs. 00:20:37.728 --> 00:20:42.900 And that's how I was able to finish my 20 year loan in about eight, nine years. 00:20:44.142 --> 00:20:47.113 So would you say for people even starting out today, right? 00:20:47.113 --> 00:20:54.027 Like let's say I don't know what your view is on buying versus renting but we can we can get on that a little bit later. 00:20:54.027 --> 00:20:57.859 But if let's say somebody has already bought a property, right? 00:20:57.859 --> 00:21:01.481 So like what what should be their focus? 00:21:01.481 --> 00:21:08.632 Like what kind of like how much money should they be spending, you know to to get 00:21:08.632 --> 00:21:17.524 to that uh or you how much money should like what should be the cost of their house so that they are able to keep it below their you know level. 00:21:17.991 --> 00:21:20.472 See, I've said that before also. 00:21:20.472 --> 00:21:21.992 In India, it's very difficult. 00:21:21.992 --> 00:21:28.892 The bank only tells you that this is the amount of money that you can actually take on a loan. 00:21:28.892 --> 00:21:30.912 It depends on how much you're drawing. 00:21:30.912 --> 00:21:39.172 So if you're drawing 1,00,000 rupees salary, your EMI cannot be more than 50,000, 60,000 rupees by any stretch of imagination. 00:21:39.172 --> 00:21:42.852 So if your salary is 1,00,000, let's take a typical case of 1,00,000 rupees. 00:21:42.852 --> 00:21:46.176 So your EMI can be 50,000 rupees or 60,000 rupees. 00:21:46.176 --> 00:21:54.802 So a 50,000 rupees, 60,000 rupees EMI over a period of 25 years, if you're young, would mean that you can get a loan of around 60, 70 lakhs. 00:21:55.603 --> 00:22:05.320 And then if you have saved maybe 20 lakhs, 30 lakhs, or you've taken some money from your parents, et cetera, which typically happens in the Indian families, then maybe if your 00:22:05.320 --> 00:22:13.316 salary today is one lakh, you can afford to buy a house worth maybe one crore. 00:22:14.048 --> 00:22:23.510 So if that gets you a 1 BHK, if that gets you a 2 BHK, if that gets you a house in the outskirts, if that gets you something, then that is something that you can buy. 00:22:23.531 --> 00:22:26.572 This way you would be able to enjoy your house. 00:22:26.572 --> 00:22:33.073 This way you would be able to build an asset because you will not be worried about whether I would be able to pay the EMI of it or not. 00:22:33.073 --> 00:22:43.156 Because if you, the initial two years of your EMIs, if you do it like this, if you go by the bank rules, are the two difficult years. 00:22:43.238 --> 00:22:55.775 After that, because your salary grows, everything grows, then that EMI doesn't feel as bad or as stuffy how it feels at the beginning of your tenure. 00:22:55.775 --> 00:22:58.497 So that is how it worked out for me. 00:22:58.497 --> 00:23:10.344 And that is what I also tell everyone, that the initial two years, maybe uh if you're very sure of your job, that the job will last for five, six years easily, would not really be a 00:23:10.344 --> 00:23:11.314 problem. 00:23:11.740 --> 00:23:19.667 maybe stretch yourself a little bit, like instead of a one-crore house, maybe buy a 1.2 or 1.3, stretch yourself a little. 00:23:19.667 --> 00:23:25.491 But then, those tough years will not be just two years, they would be maybe three or four. 00:23:25.491 --> 00:23:38.972 But then beyond that point, I think it becomes like easy because in my calculation, the rent versus buy, if you run your loan for 10 years and in that same property, you're 00:23:38.972 --> 00:23:41.564 renting it out, for an example, a one-crore house, 00:23:41.576 --> 00:23:45.220 you rent out and you buy that one-crore house. 00:23:45.341 --> 00:23:51.408 If in Indian scenario, if you continue for 10 years, in 10 years your rent and your EMI is going to be same. 00:23:53.428 --> 00:23:55.570 But in one case, you haven't got anything. 00:23:55.570 --> 00:24:02.194 The other case, you've got a house, which in 10 years also would have probably doubled, if not more. 00:24:02.234 --> 00:24:05.747 So that is how I see rent versus buy. 00:24:05.747 --> 00:24:08.038 think buying is always a better option. 00:24:08.038 --> 00:24:11.941 ah But you need to be disciplined. 00:24:12.041 --> 00:24:14.973 You need to know what your capacity is. 00:24:14.973 --> 00:24:18.686 You need to know what your job is like. 00:24:18.686 --> 00:24:21.852 If it has some amount of stability, I know 00:24:21.852 --> 00:24:24.393 jobs are not that stable anymore. 00:24:24.453 --> 00:24:35.237 But if you have utilized your capacity to a certain level and you have some stability in your job, I think it makes more sense to buy a house rather than rent a house. 00:24:35.978 --> 00:24:37.618 And do it early. 00:24:37.639 --> 00:24:46.362 I'm not saying do it at 22, how I did it, which I still stay was done in naivety because I didn't know anything else. 00:24:46.362 --> 00:24:49.843 But since there is so much available online these days, 00:24:51.592 --> 00:24:57.514 Maybe understand your profile, understand yourself, understand how you want to live in life. 00:24:57.514 --> 00:25:00.315 Maybe have a partner with you who can help. 00:25:00.315 --> 00:25:05.276 Then maybe buy a house, you know, bringing both parties into the picture. 00:25:05.276 --> 00:25:09.897 Because if two people have to live, both should decide where they want to live, what kind of house they want to buy. 00:25:09.897 --> 00:25:12.598 Maybe that is the right time to buy a house. 00:25:12.598 --> 00:25:17.139 Eventually, when I bought my house to live in, I bought it like that only. 00:25:17.479 --> 00:25:20.080 It was me and my wife together, we bought it. 00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:26.160 The investment part of it, that was done by me individually. 00:25:26.520 --> 00:25:28.600 But that is what I think. 00:25:28.600 --> 00:25:30.720 This is how you should use your capacity. 00:25:30.920 --> 00:25:38.140 And if you're going a little overboard, make sure that your job is stable for next three, four years at least, because those are going to be the grinding years. 00:25:38.140 --> 00:25:44.240 Because that is when you would feel, this house otherwise would cost me only 30,000 rupees on rental. 00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:47.540 But I'm paying, let's say, a 60,000, 70,000 EMI. 00:25:47.660 --> 00:25:50.058 So those three, four years, you would feel tough. 00:25:50.058 --> 00:25:58.931 But when eventually when the rent would catch up with your EMI and you would have built an asset for yourself, that is when you would realize that it was a wise decision. 00:25:58.931 --> 00:26:00.271 This is a long journey. 00:26:00.271 --> 00:26:03.592 You realize that it was the right thing only after eight, nine years. 00:26:03.592 --> 00:26:07.913 It is not in three years you would realize, that was a great thing that I did. 00:26:08.633 --> 00:26:11.574 You might feel in three years time, oh, what did I do? 00:26:11.574 --> 00:26:18.726 I still have such a huge loan to pay off and I'm paying these EMIs like a mad person. 00:26:18.772 --> 00:26:25.638 But when those seven, eight years would pass, that is when you would realize oh that I have built something big. 00:26:25.658 --> 00:26:30.507 And now I'm paying what somebody else is paying uh as rent for this property. 00:26:30.507 --> 00:26:32.785 I'm paying that as an EMI. 00:26:32.785 --> 00:26:38.350 And if things go well, you might be able to close your loan quite early. 00:26:38.350 --> 00:26:41.793 And if that happens, then it's a big win. 00:26:41.793 --> 00:26:44.075 You will have a huge asset with you. 00:26:44.075 --> 00:26:45.022 uh 00:26:45.022 --> 00:26:49.374 You would have built that discipline of paying EMI and then you can shift those EMIs into SIPs. 00:26:49.374 --> 00:26:50.694 That's what I did. 00:26:51.315 --> 00:26:59.618 I got into that discipline of paying uh EMIs of around 1,25,000 rupees when my EMIs were at the peak. 00:26:59.618 --> 00:27:03.120 At the peak, I was paying 1,25,000 rupees into EMIs. 00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:11.583 And when everything finished, I am now doing an equal amount of SIP because the discipline is there. 00:27:11.583 --> 00:27:13.464 My life has been built around that. 00:27:13.856 --> 00:27:17.157 So my life was not built how much I was getting as early. 00:27:17.157 --> 00:27:21.919 life was built what I, what was left in my salary after paying those EMIs. 00:27:21.919 --> 00:27:23.240 And that has continued. 00:27:23.240 --> 00:27:26.381 Growth has continued in terms of salaries and everything also. 00:27:26.381 --> 00:27:29.662 The earnings have also grown, but those EMIs didn't grow. 00:27:29.662 --> 00:27:30.443 They were there. 00:27:30.443 --> 00:27:31.423 That was the peak. 00:27:31.423 --> 00:27:41.867 And from there on one by one, the EMIs started eliminating and I didn't immediately use that money for uh other things. 00:27:41.927 --> 00:27:43.744 I shifted that into. 00:27:43.744 --> 00:27:52.004 the SIP stream and that is how I was able to build a significant part of my wealth into equities as well. 00:27:52.004 --> 00:27:55.844 So today 60 % is into real estate 40 % is into equity. 00:27:59.136 --> 00:27:59.606 Nice. 00:27:59.606 --> 00:28:01.398 So coming back to the salary part, right? 00:28:01.398 --> 00:28:08.823 Like I think a lot of people focus only on investing but your story suggests that income growth mattered a lot to right. 00:28:08.823 --> 00:28:15.648 So how did you actually think about, you know, outgrowing that 22,000 starting salary that you had? 00:28:16.938 --> 00:28:19.479 So I think there are two ways how I see. 00:28:19.479 --> 00:28:33.515 One is that you can uh stick to one job and uh keep upskilling and oh devote yourself to that organization like it is your own. 00:28:33.835 --> 00:28:36.156 And you get the growth. 00:28:36.156 --> 00:28:42.819 I got year on year growth of around 21 to 22%, which is unheard of. 00:28:42.819 --> 00:28:44.440 A lot of people get that. 00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:45.312 I also got it. 00:28:45.312 --> 00:28:53.332 So from 22 to about 1 and 1 lakhs, in nine years, it was about 20 % 22 % year on year growth I got. 00:28:53.372 --> 00:29:00.072 Promotions, yearly hikes, et cetera, et And I didn't switch jobs. 00:29:00.072 --> 00:29:05.412 I was in one job for a year for 11 months of my career, and then another job for 10 years. 00:29:05.412 --> 00:29:08.392 That is my whole 11 years of corporate career. 00:29:09.112 --> 00:29:15.032 Other ways that you work for someone, you get, you know, 00:29:15.092 --> 00:29:21.275 those skills which are in demand in the industry, and then you hop from one job to another just to increase your salary. 00:29:21.275 --> 00:29:27.397 That is how these are the only two ways I think of how you can grow in your life. 00:29:27.397 --> 00:29:28.878 Upskilling is important. 00:29:28.878 --> 00:29:31.519 You can upscale by taking those certifications as well. 00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:34.380 The other way of upscaling is use common sense. 00:29:34.560 --> 00:29:44.064 You can upscale yourself using common sense as well because if you're in a particular job and you know that this job demands this, then you can probably acquire those skills 00:29:44.064 --> 00:29:50.084 There are so many sources available to get that scaling done. 00:29:50.644 --> 00:29:53.344 if you think certification is important, do that. 00:29:53.344 --> 00:30:00.324 If you think you can actually go online and check things out and improve yourself on the job, that is also a way. 00:30:00.384 --> 00:30:05.364 So growth matters a lot because that is where everything is coming from. 00:30:05.364 --> 00:30:08.424 If your salary isn't growing, your investments are not going to grow. 00:30:08.724 --> 00:30:11.524 And your expenses are automatically going to grow. 00:30:11.524 --> 00:30:13.632 Because if you were one. 00:30:13.632 --> 00:30:15.232 you would eventually become two. 00:30:15.232 --> 00:30:18.192 From two, you will become three and four and so on and so forth. 00:30:18.192 --> 00:30:19.732 So expenses are going to grow. 00:30:19.852 --> 00:30:21.952 You will grow as a family. 00:30:21.972 --> 00:30:26.692 So if your salary is not growing, then nothing can happen. 00:30:27.152 --> 00:30:30.132 Because savings are part of what you're earning. 00:30:30.372 --> 00:30:32.292 Savings are not coming from somewhere else. 00:30:32.292 --> 00:30:35.732 Even if you build a passive income, you will build it from your investments. 00:30:35.732 --> 00:30:39.472 And that investment eventually comes from salary only, whatever your earnings are. 00:30:39.472 --> 00:30:42.452 So for me, earnings have been the base. 00:30:42.452 --> 00:30:44.613 has always been, will always be. 00:30:45.213 --> 00:30:52.036 But I want to get to a point where that base, whether it's there or not there, shouldn't matter. 00:30:52.036 --> 00:30:56.217 And that is the journey towards financial freedom. 00:30:56.658 --> 00:31:02.720 I can call myself financially free today, or I could call myself financially free three years, four years ago also. 00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:08.323 But I still feel that I want to be absolutely comfortable with that number. 00:31:08.323 --> 00:31:12.170 And that number probably is maybe four years or three years. 00:31:12.170 --> 00:31:16.694 from now, depending on how the investments go and how my earnings grow. 00:31:16.694 --> 00:31:18.626 So earning growth is very important. 00:31:18.626 --> 00:31:20.687 You should continue to work. 00:31:20.687 --> 00:31:22.664 There is nothing like not working. 00:31:22.664 --> 00:31:23.790 You should always be working. 00:31:23.790 --> 00:31:27.153 uh I am also planning to do that. 00:31:27.153 --> 00:31:39.073 But yeah, uh for an example, if I want to sit with you on a Saturday morning, do a podcast and do nothing else, if you get that kind of freedom, think you've done decently well for 00:31:39.073 --> 00:31:39.463 yourself. 00:31:39.463 --> 00:31:41.084 So that's where I am. 00:31:42.058 --> 00:31:42.620 Nice. 00:31:42.620 --> 00:31:45.920 So when you you are running your own firm now, right? 00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:49.694 So did that start after you became financially free or was that before? 00:31:49.694 --> 00:31:53.046 No, no, it started before. 00:31:53.046 --> 00:31:59.170 had the, so, you know, if you look at it, I think I was financially free. 00:31:59.170 --> 00:32:04.004 However, I was still paying EMIs at that time, but I had more assets than liabilities. 00:32:04.004 --> 00:32:05.735 So I felt comfortable. 00:32:05.735 --> 00:32:16.322 So I had two, three houses at that time when I left my job and I had a debt of around maybe 60, 70 lakhs, me and my wife put together. 00:32:16.322 --> 00:32:17.443 Wife was working. 00:32:17.443 --> 00:32:19.166 So that was, uh 00:32:19.166 --> 00:32:22.677 you know, good support, major support, I would say. 00:32:22.837 --> 00:32:27.829 So, but still the assets were oh more than the liabilities. 00:32:27.829 --> 00:32:36.661 So I knew if I get stuck anywhere, I would be able to sell those assets and pay off my liabilities and I would have my own house where I would be living. 00:32:36.661 --> 00:32:43.373 So the expenses would not be huge because I had lived in Gurgaon for a significant amount of time by then. 00:32:43.373 --> 00:32:45.610 So I knew if you have a house in Gurgaon, 00:32:45.610 --> 00:32:47.591 The rest of the things are not that expensive. 00:32:47.591 --> 00:32:48.710 I'm talking 2019. 00:32:48.710 --> 00:32:50.202 I'm not talking today. 00:32:50.202 --> 00:32:52.063 So that was the calculation. 00:32:52.063 --> 00:32:57.666 And I had some emergency fund of around a year or so for the EMIs also. 00:32:57.666 --> 00:33:01.477 So I thought in a year's time, I would be able to build something for myself. 00:33:01.477 --> 00:33:03.529 And that is how things panned out. 00:33:03.529 --> 00:33:08.250 It took me six months to get back to the kind of salary I was drawing. 00:33:08.331 --> 00:33:11.442 And it was pretty decent. 00:33:13.122 --> 00:33:13.682 Nice. 00:33:13.682 --> 00:33:17.543 So your story is framed as becoming, you know, financially independent at 38. 00:33:17.543 --> 00:33:19.106 You know, everyone knows about that. 00:33:19.106 --> 00:33:22.177 You had a lot of interviews online as well, which talk about that. 00:33:22.177 --> 00:33:25.049 But what did that actually feel like when you became right? 00:33:25.049 --> 00:33:33.394 I think that the emotional part of it, not really a lot of people talk about, but like what was that feeling when you finally became financially independent? 00:33:34.272 --> 00:33:36.833 That was one of the best feelings I had in my life. 00:33:36.933 --> 00:33:37.874 One of the best feelings. 00:33:37.874 --> 00:33:48.678 The day I went to the bank and took my house papers from them, I went with my wife and you know, it was unbelievable. 00:33:48.678 --> 00:33:52.160 ah Because I had two loans going on. 00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:55.261 Car loans and everything, they feel okay. 00:33:55.261 --> 00:34:02.024 But when you have a house loan which is big, which is, I had put together about 75 to 80 lakhs in loans. 00:34:03.008 --> 00:34:07.630 So when I paid that off, when we paid that off, it was a big thing. 00:34:07.630 --> 00:34:10.891 At that time, I felt, OK, now this house is ours. 00:34:10.950 --> 00:34:18.615 And it took us a long journey of around eight, nine years to get to that point where we didn't have to pay anything to anybody. 00:34:18.615 --> 00:34:19.665 We had our own house. 00:34:19.665 --> 00:34:20.855 We had our investments. 00:34:20.855 --> 00:34:22.916 Whatever we have is our own. 00:34:22.916 --> 00:34:28.138 Whether tomorrow we lose it or it doesn't grow, it doesn't matter anymore. 00:34:28.379 --> 00:34:29.759 So it was a big relief. 00:34:29.759 --> 00:34:31.776 And I had been 00:34:31.776 --> 00:34:35.038 I have been paying uh EMIs for a very long time. 00:34:35.038 --> 00:34:48.808 I told you from 2010 onwards, 2010 onwards, I have been paying EMIs and since then till 2023, I've been paying EMIs. 00:34:48.808 --> 00:34:54.091 So I had a burnout, big, big burnout of paying EMIs. 00:34:54.292 --> 00:34:59.175 And uh when it was my last year, it was a big relief. 00:34:59.175 --> 00:35:00.616 I can't tell you and 00:35:01.116 --> 00:35:14.141 I genuinely felt now I can do whatever I Whether I want to settle somewhere and not do anything for two years, I'm good. 00:35:14.182 --> 00:35:15.222 Shouldn't be a problem. 00:35:15.222 --> 00:35:19.704 Because I have got ourselves a shelter, which is debt free. 00:35:19.704 --> 00:35:27.947 And I have got ourselves mobility in terms of like we have a car, is debt free. 00:35:28.227 --> 00:35:30.122 And we can put 00:35:30.122 --> 00:35:33.036 food on the table, that much skill set I have. 00:35:33.078 --> 00:35:40.910 So that was a big relief for someone who had come from a huge burden of debt. 00:35:44.694 --> 00:35:45.554 Nice. 00:35:45.735 --> 00:36:00.041 So did your finances actually, you know, keep on increasing as your salary increased or you know, you kind of kept your ah your expenses to a minimum because I know you you you 00:36:00.041 --> 00:36:01.361 got married you had kids. 00:36:01.361 --> 00:36:03.762 So how did that progression look like? 00:36:04.352 --> 00:36:10.075 See, expenses, because I had expenses were very stable because I had my own house. 00:36:10.075 --> 00:36:16.598 oh That made a huge difference because it wasn't like I have to pay rent, et cetera, et cetera. 00:36:16.599 --> 00:36:20.520 the EMIs were the only burden that I had. 00:36:20.520 --> 00:36:22.842 And we were sharing that burden, me and my wife. 00:36:23.523 --> 00:36:32.707 And there was some steady rental income also that had started coming in from one house from 2017 onwards and the other house from 2018 onwards. 00:36:32.707 --> 00:36:33.984 So I was getting about 00:36:33.984 --> 00:36:37.125 20,000 rupees in rental from both those properties. 00:36:37.125 --> 00:36:39.666 Not huge, but yeah, some amount I was getting. 00:36:39.666 --> 00:36:42.826 uh So that would go into AMIs. 00:36:43.527 --> 00:36:45.767 But the expenses didn't go through the roof. 00:36:45.767 --> 00:36:57.080 uh You know, with kids also, there was a phase for two years, the expenses were very minimal because we were not going out because of COVID. 00:36:57.080 --> 00:36:58.071 Nobody was going out. 00:36:58.071 --> 00:37:00.091 There were no schools, nothing. 00:37:00.331 --> 00:37:02.002 There was no transportation expense. 00:37:02.002 --> 00:37:03.114 There was nothing. 00:37:03.114 --> 00:37:07.107 So the expenses actually were low during COVID. 00:37:07.107 --> 00:37:21.456 um And through my entire life, the expenses, they've been there, but they haven't gone beyond what I wanted them to be at. 00:37:21.677 --> 00:37:25.960 So yeah, that's how I have lived my life. 00:37:25.960 --> 00:37:27.581 we like that kind of life. 00:37:27.581 --> 00:37:31.954 We are not extravagant in terms of partying and all of that. 00:37:31.954 --> 00:37:32.512 We do. 00:37:32.512 --> 00:37:40.118 oh party as well, we go out for dinners and all of that but it's all with family. 00:37:40.659 --> 00:37:42.921 So the expenses are not crazy. 00:37:42.921 --> 00:37:47.104 I always wanted to have a big car. 00:37:47.705 --> 00:37:49.226 So that was one indulgence. 00:37:49.226 --> 00:37:55.972 uh But yeah, besides that, Expenses have been very, very stable. 00:37:55.972 --> 00:38:01.375 We've never had, luckily, I've had a rough 00:38:02.272 --> 00:38:04.913 uh time health wise. 00:38:05.352 --> 00:38:20.857 I had, you know, almost two and a half, three years uh of illness, uh which was a small thing, but it was uh happening every four, five, six, seven months. 00:38:21.337 --> 00:38:28.709 So I had to be operated upon, you know, seven times for that one small thing uh over a period of three years. 00:38:28.709 --> 00:38:30.300 So that was tough. 00:38:30.300 --> 00:38:31.900 uh 00:38:31.900 --> 00:38:37.294 So because of that, because of the health reasons, the lifestyle anyway became very, very simple. 00:38:37.294 --> 00:38:38.785 Home cooked food. 00:38:39.386 --> 00:38:41.208 And now we become habitual. 00:38:41.208 --> 00:38:42.789 Kids are also like that. 00:38:43.270 --> 00:38:44.870 Life is also like that. 00:38:45.191 --> 00:38:47.292 Home has always been like that. 00:38:49.415 --> 00:38:55.059 if your lifestyle is simple, then your expenses are not crazy. 00:38:55.059 --> 00:38:56.390 That's what I have felt. 00:39:00.335 --> 00:39:04.357 Coming back to family, I know you have wife, have kids. 00:39:04.357 --> 00:39:15.582 What did they think of when you put a lot of uh impact on your family? 00:39:16.903 --> 00:39:24.116 How did you plan your finances with them and what did they think about your finance and independence journey? 00:39:24.712 --> 00:39:31.617 See, for a large part of it, um because that is something that I have got from my father. 00:39:31.617 --> 00:39:33.938 My father always kept everything under the wraps. 00:39:33.938 --> 00:39:36.400 He managed all the finances all by himself. 00:39:36.400 --> 00:39:38.471 It wasn't that he was authoritative about it. 00:39:38.471 --> 00:39:41.083 It was like he took that responsibility of managing all the finances. 00:39:41.083 --> 00:39:43.244 Typical Indian father. 00:39:43.385 --> 00:39:45.386 And I think I also imbibed that from him only. 00:39:45.386 --> 00:39:46.867 I kept everything under the wraps. 00:39:46.867 --> 00:39:50.009 I knew what we were getting, and I knew what had to go out. 00:39:50.009 --> 00:39:51.450 I knew what the liabilities were. 00:39:51.450 --> 00:39:53.631 So I managed it for a very long time. 00:39:55.080 --> 00:40:06.694 It's it's it's not that I didn't share it with my family I always did but I didn't give that kind of burden to Any of my family members I made sure that you know uh We should 00:40:06.694 --> 00:40:20.276 have um The right amount of resources if things go south so I planned it without these terms came into the picture the emergency fund term and 00:40:20.276 --> 00:40:22.527 you know, having that six months, 12 months, thing. 00:40:22.527 --> 00:40:25.918 So these are things that we imbibed from our elders. 00:40:25.918 --> 00:40:31.379 They always said, you know, keep some money with you all the time so that if something goes wrong, you should have. 00:40:31.379 --> 00:40:33.400 So now it is called emergency fund. 00:40:33.400 --> 00:40:34.950 So I always had that. 00:40:34.950 --> 00:40:37.501 was, it was not that I learned it from someone. 00:40:37.501 --> 00:40:39.081 I learned it from my parents. 00:40:39.081 --> 00:40:42.602 They always kept, you know, some money with themselves in the bank. 00:40:42.602 --> 00:40:45.623 If everything goes wrong, you should have some money. 00:40:45.623 --> 00:40:48.904 I think that is, that is from where the 00:40:49.370 --> 00:40:52.583 gold in Indian families, that concept started from there only. 00:40:52.583 --> 00:41:04.933 Why people gave gold to their daughters or they kept gold with themselves all the time was that if things go wrong, they will have that thing which would then probably take care of 00:41:04.933 --> 00:41:07.325 them for some amount of time. 00:41:07.325 --> 00:41:08.797 And that was their emergency fund. 00:41:08.797 --> 00:41:11.359 that is, I think that has always been there. 00:41:11.359 --> 00:41:18.044 Indian families have always been um savings oriented. 00:41:18.078 --> 00:41:19.148 And that is how I was. 00:41:19.148 --> 00:41:29.173 uh I did share it with them, but like I told you, I kept it with myself for a very long time when I was able to achieve something. 00:41:29.173 --> 00:41:39.116 That is when I told everybody and that is when I went public as well about it that I have done it over a period of time and it's not been easy. 00:41:39.597 --> 00:41:44.939 When people look at it, people look at it, people look at the endpoint. 00:41:44.939 --> 00:41:46.059 They don't look at the journey. 00:41:46.059 --> 00:41:47.940 ah 00:41:47.940 --> 00:41:53.604 I don't fault them for it because maybe they have not done that journey themselves so they can't understand that journey. 00:41:53.604 --> 00:41:57.167 But I've tried my level best to kind of tell what I've been through. 00:41:57.167 --> 00:42:06.113 I am not somebody who would say that I didn't enjoy the journey, so much burden on me, all of that. 00:42:06.113 --> 00:42:09.455 I try to portray myself as a positive person. 00:42:09.455 --> 00:42:17.360 Even if I had difficulties along the way, would say those were challenges and I overcame all those challenges and I've come to this point. 00:42:17.568 --> 00:42:24.448 But sometimes that gets mistakenly taken as everything was so easy. 00:42:24.508 --> 00:42:25.468 It wasn't. 00:42:25.468 --> 00:42:27.088 It was not easy. 00:42:27.088 --> 00:42:27.908 It was tough. 00:42:27.908 --> 00:42:35.468 Paying an EMI of 1.25 lakhs is not easy when you don't see the endpoint of that. 00:42:36.628 --> 00:42:43.508 Yes, when all of it ends and you stay disciplined through and through, the end looks great. 00:42:43.528 --> 00:42:47.296 And from there on, everything looks 00:42:47.296 --> 00:42:48.296 Wonderful. 00:42:48.356 --> 00:42:55.216 But to get to that point means that you need to be very, very disciplined for a very, long time. 00:42:55.316 --> 00:43:00.016 From 2010 to 2026, it's been 16 years. 00:43:00.036 --> 00:43:02.216 Prime time of my life. 00:43:02.796 --> 00:43:09.656 Prime years of my life from 23 to about 39, 40, I'll be turning in a couple of months. 00:43:09.896 --> 00:43:11.136 So I've been very disciplined. 00:43:11.136 --> 00:43:13.496 Some people will say, what kind of life is this? 00:43:13.496 --> 00:43:16.542 But I have, you know, that is my choice. 00:43:16.542 --> 00:43:17.374 That is by choice. 00:43:17.374 --> 00:43:19.517 It's not that somebody's forced it upon me. 00:43:19.699 --> 00:43:24.058 So that is how my financial stuff has been through and through. 00:43:25.644 --> 00:43:26.156 Right. 00:43:26.156 --> 00:43:29.325 So did the right circle the right mentors? 00:43:30.567 --> 00:43:31.330 Sorry. 00:43:31.330 --> 00:43:33.735 No, I think that that that made that made perfect sense. 00:43:33.735 --> 00:43:34.005 Right? 00:43:34.005 --> 00:43:42.440 So some um like did the right circle and the right mentors they mattered as much as investing do you think? 00:43:45.893 --> 00:43:49.916 I would be wrong if I say that I followed someone. 00:43:50.017 --> 00:43:53.900 I think my only mentor um has been my father. 00:43:53.900 --> 00:44:02.467 um Like a very typical son, um I saw my father and how he managed things. 00:44:02.467 --> 00:44:07.911 I also tried to manage wherever I could improve with all the experiences that I got. 00:44:07.911 --> 00:44:13.866 Since he never went out of Jalandhar, I got that opportunity because of him to move out of Jalandhar and 00:44:13.866 --> 00:44:14.756 go to a big city. 00:44:14.756 --> 00:44:19.437 So whatever I could gather from my experiences, I use that. 00:44:19.458 --> 00:44:20.878 And that's about it. 00:44:22.939 --> 00:44:27.200 I learned from, you know, I learned from my wife as well. 00:44:27.200 --> 00:44:30.421 I learned from my close friends also. 00:44:30.621 --> 00:44:36.853 But largely, it wasn't very, very technical what I was doing for a large part of my life. 00:44:36.853 --> 00:44:39.503 Even till date, my investment strategy is very simple. 00:44:39.503 --> 00:44:41.768 Whether it's right or wrong, people might 00:44:41.768 --> 00:44:45.731 you know, some technical experts might say, oh, this is wrong, that is wrong. 00:44:45.991 --> 00:44:47.172 Doesn't matter. 00:44:47.372 --> 00:44:54.938 Even if this, ah you know, corpus that I have today in 10 years time becomes two times or three times, how does it matter? 00:44:54.938 --> 00:44:55.948 It doesn't matter to me. 00:44:55.948 --> 00:44:57.420 It doesn't matter to some people. 00:44:57.420 --> 00:45:05.896 might do, but to me it doesn't matter because if I'm comfortable today with this, if it doubles in five years time, I'll be even more comfortable. 00:45:05.896 --> 00:45:09.328 So I 00:45:09.468 --> 00:45:12.869 Like I told you earlier as well, I am very difficult person to influence. 00:45:12.930 --> 00:45:18.112 I am stubborn in a way that if I think this is right, that is right. 00:45:18.112 --> 00:45:19.373 It doesn't matter. 00:45:19.373 --> 00:45:25.535 My ah comfort with that mindset of mine is more important. 00:45:25.535 --> 00:45:30.938 My comfort with that stuff is more important than me thinking, I missed out on something. 00:45:30.998 --> 00:45:32.878 I don't get FOMO. 00:45:33.419 --> 00:45:34.439 I don't get that. 00:45:34.439 --> 00:45:36.230 I am very glad that I don't. 00:45:37.294 --> 00:45:40.723 Yeah, I think that's a luxury to have in today's time. 00:45:40.842 --> 00:45:41.968 I think so. 00:45:41.968 --> 00:45:44.389 I am blessed that I don't get foam. 00:45:46.146 --> 00:45:46.646 Right. 00:45:46.646 --> 00:45:57.534 So what do you think was the that one biggest or that one turning point that you had in your journey, you know, which which kind of accelerated your fire journey? 00:46:00.564 --> 00:46:01.466 I think... 00:46:04.170 --> 00:46:14.983 Starting my own company ah changed a lot because when you start your own company, of course, your involvement is a lot. 00:46:14.983 --> 00:46:20.905 However, when I was doing my own job, when I was working for someone, I was involved like it was my own company. 00:46:20.905 --> 00:46:24.225 uh So but the mindset changed. 00:46:24.225 --> 00:46:26.166 It wasn't that I was working with salary anymore. 00:46:26.166 --> 00:46:29.487 uh I was working to build something. 00:46:29.607 --> 00:46:31.207 And then you're working to build something. 00:46:31.207 --> 00:46:32.448 You go all in. 00:46:32.448 --> 00:46:33.984 When you go all in, 00:46:33.984 --> 00:46:36.145 uh you know, things work out. 00:46:36.565 --> 00:46:42.187 And ah it gave me some space to uh understand myself as well. 00:46:42.187 --> 00:46:44.710 uh What is it like? 00:46:44.710 --> 00:46:48.672 Can I be disciplined when there is no sword hanging on my head? 00:46:48.672 --> 00:46:50.693 Can I build something when nobody's pushing you? 00:46:50.693 --> 00:46:54.255 uh So I think that changed a lot. 00:46:54.255 --> 00:46:58.298 And I could do things that I could not do. 00:46:58.298 --> 00:47:01.759 Obviously, when you are in job, there are obviously restrictions. 00:47:01.759 --> 00:47:03.070 You can't do things. 00:47:03.070 --> 00:47:04.461 which you want to. 00:47:04.902 --> 00:47:11.408 If I think back, if I wanted to sit in a podcast like this, and I was working with someone, I will have to go ask somebody. 00:47:11.408 --> 00:47:13.991 And if they give me a permission only, then I would be able to sit. 00:47:13.991 --> 00:47:18.194 So I think that was a big turning point in my life. 00:47:18.535 --> 00:47:20.087 There are lot of turning points. 00:47:20.087 --> 00:47:21.078 It's not just one. 00:47:21.078 --> 00:47:28.164 But if I look at just one, then probably that was in 2019 when I started my own company. 00:47:28.342 --> 00:47:32.877 I think that is turning point for lot of people, right? 00:47:32.877 --> 00:47:42.158 When they go from a job to starting something of their own, they just find that freedom and that feeling very exciting. 00:47:42.158 --> 00:47:46.292 So I think that is a turning point in lot of people's lives. 00:47:46.698 --> 00:47:47.288 Yeah. 00:47:47.288 --> 00:47:51.881 And you know, I would call myself young even at this point. 00:47:51.881 --> 00:47:54.122 But I was much younger. 00:47:54.122 --> 00:48:04.147 So you know, the energy levels are oh much better when you are in your early 30s than when you are in your late 30s or touching 40s, oh like in my case. 00:48:04.147 --> 00:48:06.448 So I felt it was the right time. 00:48:08.972 --> 00:48:09.782 Nice. 00:48:09.842 --> 00:48:17.599 So if someone in their 20s is listening to this podcast, right and they want to build well seriously, what should they focus on first? 00:48:19.296 --> 00:48:20.356 Focus on your salary. 00:48:20.356 --> 00:48:22.296 Focus on your earnings first. 00:48:22.536 --> 00:48:25.216 If you don't earn, you can't save, right? 00:48:25.496 --> 00:48:28.916 And understand your capacity. 00:48:29.436 --> 00:48:37.196 If your earnings are 20,000 rupees, let's say, 20,000, 25,000, 30,000, you can't spend all of it. 00:48:37.436 --> 00:48:41.056 And that's the very basic that everybody tells you, parents tell you. 00:48:41.056 --> 00:48:43.816 And there will be people who will tell you, why not? 00:48:44.656 --> 00:48:45.676 So it's OK. 00:48:45.916 --> 00:48:46.956 You can. 00:48:47.036 --> 00:48:47.756 It's your money. 00:48:47.756 --> 00:48:49.112 You can spend it out. 00:48:49.308 --> 00:48:56.452 But then don't tell yourself five years later that what did I do? 00:48:56.452 --> 00:48:58.012 Why didn't I save anything? 00:48:58.153 --> 00:49:00.014 So you need to live with your decision. 00:49:00.014 --> 00:49:03.516 If you decide to spend everything today, then be happy with it. 00:49:03.516 --> 00:49:05.617 That you know, I lived my life to the fullest. 00:49:05.617 --> 00:49:06.718 I had 30,000 rupees. 00:49:06.718 --> 00:49:09.640 I spent it all on myself, on whatever. 00:49:09.640 --> 00:49:11.000 Be happy with it. 00:49:11.000 --> 00:49:13.442 At the end of it, the goal is to be happy. 00:49:13.442 --> 00:49:17.734 It's not that you wanted something, you got that, and you're still not happy. 00:49:19.102 --> 00:49:19.512 Right? 00:49:19.512 --> 00:49:26.005 So I may be sounding a little uh philosophical right now, but that's not the idea. 00:49:26.005 --> 00:49:34.738 It's a very basic mistake that a lot of us commit, that we do something which we like, and later on we crave about it. 00:49:34.738 --> 00:49:36.579 That why did I do that? 00:49:36.639 --> 00:49:38.200 See, you enjoyed. 00:49:38.380 --> 00:49:47.043 So like I told you, the mistakes that I felt were mistakes, but not really mistakes, and it's about your mindset. 00:49:47.064 --> 00:49:48.554 People ask me, when did you get 00:49:48.554 --> 00:49:49.464 financially free. 00:49:49.464 --> 00:49:54.545 I said, I can say I was financially free when I started my job. 00:49:54.886 --> 00:49:57.306 And I could say that I'm not financially free today. 00:49:57.306 --> 00:49:59.497 Because financially free is not about numbers. 00:49:59.497 --> 00:50:01.047 It's about your mindset. 00:50:01.908 --> 00:50:04.968 If your mind tells you that you're financially free, you're financially free. 00:50:06.149 --> 00:50:10.370 And if your mind doesn't tell you even at 100 crores, you're not financially free. 00:50:11.370 --> 00:50:14.931 And that is, it's all about the mindset. 00:50:14.931 --> 00:50:17.812 If you're starting with a 20,000 rupee salary, 00:50:18.034 --> 00:50:20.267 Make sure that you save something out of it. 00:50:20.267 --> 00:50:28.766 If you think you want to build something, if your mindset at that time is that you want to spend it all because this is your first salary, you want to spend a lot of it, you want to 00:50:28.766 --> 00:50:29.778 enjoy, do that. 00:50:29.778 --> 00:50:34.622 But don't have qualms about it later on that what did I do? 00:50:35.024 --> 00:50:35.974 That's all. 00:50:37.826 --> 00:50:38.987 Yeah, makes sense. 00:50:38.987 --> 00:50:39.727 Totally. 00:50:39.727 --> 00:50:43.359 I think that is what is kind of missing in today's generation as well. 00:50:43.359 --> 00:50:44.370 Right? 00:50:44.370 --> 00:50:52.315 they they do something impulsive and then you know, maybe three or four years later they they realize, okay, you know, why did I do that and things like that? 00:50:52.315 --> 00:51:00.430 But I think the the essence is that wherever you are right at that moment is is the one that only matters, right? 00:51:00.430 --> 00:51:02.141 Nothing else matters. 00:51:02.141 --> 00:51:03.572 So I think yeah. 00:51:03.910 --> 00:51:10.633 You bought an iPhone because that was your dream when you started working. 00:51:10.633 --> 00:51:12.294 You bought an iPhone. 00:51:12.494 --> 00:51:13.735 Don't repent. 00:51:13.735 --> 00:51:15.236 You know, what did I do? 00:51:15.236 --> 00:51:19.639 Now I'm going to pay EMIs for it for that one next year. 00:51:19.639 --> 00:51:20.979 You wanted it. 00:51:21.680 --> 00:51:24.401 And if you bought it, it's OK. 00:51:24.401 --> 00:51:27.963 Or even if you think that was a mistake, don't repeat it. 00:51:28.564 --> 00:51:29.914 At least learn from it. 00:51:33.022 --> 00:51:37.318 So that's what my suggestion is to the young generation. 00:51:39.714 --> 00:51:45.399 Yeah, I think once you do that mistake, then you actually realize what is the difference between a want and a need right? 00:51:45.399 --> 00:51:49.192 Like once you figure that out, I think that that that changes the whole game. 00:51:49.748 --> 00:51:50.528 Yeah. 00:51:50.949 --> 00:51:54.181 If it is a small financial mistake, better to do it early. 00:51:54.181 --> 00:51:55.032 It's okay. 00:51:55.032 --> 00:51:56.372 Make that mistake. 00:51:57.814 --> 00:51:59.935 Go with your impulse. 00:51:59.935 --> 00:52:01.266 It's important to do that. 00:52:01.266 --> 00:52:04.338 Otherwise you would be like, what did I do? 00:52:05.099 --> 00:52:06.700 Because you can't roll back the years. 00:52:06.700 --> 00:52:13.004 Either way, you can't roll back the years for lack of expenses or for lack of investments. 00:52:13.084 --> 00:52:16.146 So it's how you look at things. 00:52:16.146 --> 00:52:19.348 You want to do what you want to do, do it. 00:52:19.348 --> 00:52:20.489 Don't hold it back. 00:52:20.489 --> 00:52:26.773 Yes, you can always take advice and learn from your mistakes because that is your biggest learning. 00:52:26.773 --> 00:52:29.395 Generally speaking, we don't learn from others so much. 00:52:29.395 --> 00:52:33.198 We learn from our own mistakes, from our own experiences more. 00:52:33.198 --> 00:52:36.330 And those are the teachings that stay with us for a longer duration. 00:52:36.330 --> 00:52:39.402 And those are the teachings that make or break a person. 00:52:39.462 --> 00:52:40.983 And that is what we are. 00:52:40.983 --> 00:52:42.535 People say you are an experienced person. 00:52:42.535 --> 00:52:46.207 Yes, I am an experienced person from my own experiences. 00:52:46.447 --> 00:52:47.732 I've seen life. 00:52:47.732 --> 00:52:51.105 Because you spend the most amount of time with yourself, not with others, right? 00:52:51.105 --> 00:52:56.739 And you learn everything from yourself and from your very, very close group. 00:52:56.999 --> 00:53:00.902 And 90 % of the things that you do are your own experiences. 00:53:00.902 --> 00:53:02.063 And you learn from your mistakes. 00:53:02.063 --> 00:53:05.526 If you don't, then at some point you will. 00:53:05.526 --> 00:53:11.661 And that is why some people say he matured a little later in his life. 00:53:11.661 --> 00:53:13.692 And eventually everybody matures. 00:53:14.376 --> 00:53:19.095 You make your mistakes at different times and everybody is allowed to make mistakes. 00:53:19.095 --> 00:53:19.798 It's okay. 00:53:19.798 --> 00:53:20.839 That's life. 00:53:23.788 --> 00:53:25.521 Yeah, completely agree with that. 00:53:25.521 --> 00:53:25.861 Okay. 00:53:25.861 --> 00:53:34.004 So coming to our last question, if you had to compress your journey into one lesson, what is the one thing that actually creates financial freedom? 00:53:36.736 --> 00:53:40.996 I think if I have to say one word. 00:53:44.468 --> 00:53:45.466 commitment. 00:53:47.496 --> 00:53:50.318 If you commit to something, stay committed. 00:53:51.480 --> 00:53:58.425 And if you stay committed, even with a wrong investment, but you stay committed for a long duration, you will not go wrong. 00:53:58.425 --> 00:54:03.670 You can go wrong by a percentage here and there, but you will never go wrong completely. 00:54:03.670 --> 00:54:05.491 You will not make losses. 00:54:06.412 --> 00:54:16.120 Even if you make a mistake, if you think when you become a wiser investor later on in your life, you think, that was a mistake. 00:54:16.518 --> 00:54:23.172 If your commitment didn't last for a significant period, say investment is significant period. 00:54:23.172 --> 00:54:26.934 If it is mutual funds, if it is, then it should be five to seven years. 00:54:26.934 --> 00:54:28.815 If it is real estate, it has to be 10 years. 00:54:28.815 --> 00:54:37.020 oh FDs and all, I'm not counting as investments, but equity or real estate, per se. 00:54:37.280 --> 00:54:40.222 So that is the duration I'm talking about. 00:54:40.342 --> 00:54:41.823 You will never go wrong. 00:54:42.503 --> 00:54:44.104 Today in Gurgaon, 00:54:44.592 --> 00:54:55.952 Expense the properties are expensive, but even if you buy today You might be wrong in three years time you might be wrong in four years time But in ten years time you will not 00:54:55.952 --> 00:54:56.632 be wrong 00:54:58.754 --> 00:54:59.058 Hmm. 00:54:59.058 --> 00:55:01.369 you've made a mistake, stay committed to it. 00:55:01.369 --> 00:55:03.930 Mistake in a sense, investment mistake. 00:55:03.970 --> 00:55:07.271 Stay committed for a longer duration. 00:55:07.652 --> 00:55:13.574 The cycles will make sure that an investment doesn't go wrong completely. 00:55:13.574 --> 00:55:15.435 You will still have something. 00:55:15.435 --> 00:55:19.577 What I see people doing is they will commit a mistake. 00:55:19.577 --> 00:55:23.158 They will commit a mistake to start with. 00:55:23.158 --> 00:55:28.100 They will commit a mistake when they are exiting because they think they made a mistake when they started off. 00:55:28.410 --> 00:55:28.818 Mm. 00:55:28.818 --> 00:55:32.250 when they exit, that also becomes so it doubles up. 00:55:32.511 --> 00:55:38.174 And then they get into it again, get into something else, which again turns out to be a mistake. 00:55:38.295 --> 00:55:39.456 And then they exit from it. 00:55:39.456 --> 00:55:41.397 And then it becomes a vicious circle. 00:55:41.397 --> 00:55:43.058 And you don't make anything. 00:55:43.118 --> 00:55:46.260 And you just commit mistake after mistake after mistake. 00:55:46.260 --> 00:55:47.781 And that becomes a problem. 00:55:48.021 --> 00:55:49.062 Typical case of mine. 00:55:49.062 --> 00:55:52.204 Let's say real estate investment that I made when I was young. 00:55:52.928 --> 00:55:54.668 When I look back, maybe it was a mistake. 00:55:54.668 --> 00:55:55.988 The return was about 9%. 00:55:55.988 --> 00:56:00.288 If I had invested for 10 years into equity, maybe the returns would have been 12, 13, 14%. 00:56:00.288 --> 00:56:05.128 When I sold that property, what I got, I could have got much more. 00:56:05.728 --> 00:56:10.248 But if I sold it in two years only, I would not even have got what I had invested. 00:56:10.248 --> 00:56:12.388 And I would have invested into something else. 00:56:12.388 --> 00:56:16.028 Again, that would have incurred me losses and so on and so forth. 00:56:16.108 --> 00:56:18.108 And that is happening with people. 00:56:18.408 --> 00:56:22.208 A lot of people had invested into mutual funds, looking at the cycle. 00:56:22.216 --> 00:56:25.419 a year ago and those people are in losses. 00:56:25.419 --> 00:56:29.923 And now they will make another mistake of exiting from mutual funds to get into real estate. 00:56:29.923 --> 00:56:31.725 And then they will get into real estate. 00:56:31.725 --> 00:56:35.428 They will not be able to exit out of it because real estate has boomed. 00:56:35.428 --> 00:56:38.771 It will probably stay stagnant or will go down. 00:56:39.212 --> 00:56:41.953 And suddenly people would want to get out of it. 00:56:42.935 --> 00:56:44.666 And that becomes a problem. 00:56:50.408 --> 00:56:52.114 So that's what I think. 00:56:52.137 --> 00:56:52.901 committed. 00:56:52.901 --> 00:56:54.907 Stay committed to your investments. 00:56:58.978 --> 00:56:59.798 Right. 00:57:00.119 --> 00:57:00.439 Right. 00:57:00.439 --> 00:57:06.001 I think that's the end of an episode, but I think it was was it was so great talking to you. 00:57:06.001 --> 00:57:07.922 Thank you so much for doing this with me. 00:57:07.922 --> 00:57:19.257 uh I think our audiences will love your story and you whatever the emotional portion has been behind the journey coming from a middle class family and then, you know, having a 00:57:19.257 --> 00:57:21.268 portfolio of five plus crores. 00:57:21.268 --> 00:57:23.769 I think that's a phenomenal story. 00:57:23.769 --> 00:57:25.920 So thank you so much for doing this. 00:57:26.814 --> 00:57:29.108 No, I'm very happy to do it. 00:57:29.108 --> 00:57:30.930 And thank you very much for hosting it. 00:57:30.930 --> 00:57:38.121 And the initiative that you've started, the hustle culture that is there in US, that's commendable what you're doing. 00:57:38.121 --> 00:57:40.484 So continue the good work. 00:57:43.374 --> 00:57:44.488 Thank you so much. 00:57:45.600 --> 00:57:46.403 Thank you.