Okay.
So thank you Sunil for joining me today to start off with tell us a little bit about yourself and your background.
Or like what what kind of work were you doing before you know pursuing financial independence?
Yeah, means basically I started too early like you know means because initially basically we were from middle class and I was very much interested in sports in my childhood.
So very early like at the age of 11, I realized that I need to make money because without money I cannot buy what equipments I want or you know if I want to dedicate my time to
sports.
because I always thought that I have that capability and interest to you know become one of the very good sportsmen but that I could not do it because there was a limitation of
different kind and that created the thought in my mind that okay I need to make money and I immediately implemented on it so I went to some shops because that was the easiest way
to
get the work done.
It was like utensil stock.
I worked for them.
But while working, I realized, you know, this is not the way I would like to trade my time and make some money.
So I thought deeply on it.
And luckily, I knew one person in that time only, who started software company in Pune.
And somehow he was coming to our Dandiya program and also he like
me a lot so he invited me to his office and in that process because I knew the typing he gave me some data entry work and after doing the data entry work at that time the money he
gave me was huge amount for me you know just by doing data entry and I could buy my first cycle with that money you know means and buying cycle at that time also was a big thing
you know at the age of
around in between 11 to 12.
So that's how it started, you know, means about thinking about and creating money at that time.
Nice and then ah I've heard that you've gone to US based on the job.
what was that experience like?
See, then it is like evolving thing like because while doing data entry afterwards, I learned software, I learned programming tools, and then I started classes and then it went
to develop my own software.
Then I was doing trading of hardware.
But then doing all these things again, there's a lot of situation because the tools were new, there's a lot of limitation on hardware and programming side, memory side.
So that lot of struggle.
But in that case, of course, you know, I always found a way where if I go to silence, I used to get some solutions.
So when I was thinking of this situation, the thing came to me, it's always better to US or abroad, you know, to earn money because then that will create more output for the same
time what I'll be giving in India.
So I decided to go to US, but I thought it's better to go to Singapore or some other country first.
But it happened that when I went to Singapore, got an entrepreneur who was from US.
They had a software company and we were in the software expo in Singapore.
And he liked the way I was doing my sales of application software without spending any money on the stall and they had a big stall.
So he approached me and he told me why don't you join our company?
And I decided that I wanted to go to US.
So that's how I went to US and reached US for marketing software for this company in US.
Nice and then ah what was that one turning point that accelerated your progress ah towards financial independence?
what happened that time in US also the computers were new.
Lot of people even didn't know about computers and most of the companies were not computerized.
the clients, prospective clients or the clients we have were very big financially in US.
So and when you give some solution to some company then you know you have to talk to the owner, you have to understand his vision.
and what kind of things he is expecting from the application.
So for that, I visited some of the houses of some big corporate company, the owners.
Huge house with a lot of cars and some private small kind of flying.
I don't know what to call them, but so all these things were there.
But I saw their life also in a process like, know, like they have a lot of tensions and the way they were involved in different things was very like a stressed thing.
In addition to that, I saw another thing also in US because then, on one of the Sunday when we met with some Indian group, we have some three, four cab drivers, you know.
And those who had come in suits and I had some software people, coding people in just normal Indian pant and shirt.
And then uh I thought because they were in good suits and all, I thought they must be doing some good business or a good position in software and all.
So I asked them like, what you do, you know, for living and where you do the job and all.
So they said, we are driving the cab.
And I asked them how much you are making.
So amount they were making was almost 30 to 40 % more than the salary what my software guys were getting.
And then I thought, okay man, I have a license.
I have a US license.
And if this is the money which can be earned by driving the cab, and with my nature, I thought I will enjoy driving the cab.
And then I went deep thinking on this.
And the outcome was,
my fear for which I was in US of money just went off because I had performed really well in sales in US for closing deals and this witnessing of this economy and how the efforts
are paid in US.
So I thought I can make money whenever I want to make and
All options, I never drove the cab, but then that gave me the confidence like that removed the fear about financial requirements.
And I really felt a freedom like, know, because I had a lot of things within me and I used to postpone because I have to generate money.
So that one thing I really got from US where
you know, my worry or planning of future, planning of career, making money, everything I could take it very easily after realizing this, that there is no problem.
I can generate enough money.
Even that time, I remember I made all the calculation.
I thought if I drive cab two months in US, I can stay comfortable in India for 10 months.
You know, just...
just a calculation I never did that but that can yeah so that removed my fear that removed my fear basically yeah and then what happened is that I was doing really well so the
company offered me that okay why don't you start the whole because I have taken their setup in from 20 people company to 120 people so they knew like how I can
manage the whole setup and grow the setup.
So they told me that you start because Pune also was a very IT relevant city so they wanted me to start a complete setup under my this thing in Pune and I was really free from
the thoughts and I you know so I said okay Pune is my own city I will go there and they told me we will start
everything from Pune and then I came to Pune.
Nice.
So like why did you decide to not stay in the US but come back to India?
Because you could have earned a lot of money in the US.
No, for me I was getting same money because they had offered me both the things.
In fact, what they had offered me is much more than that.
Like if I convert dollars what I was getting in US, convert in rupees, again I will be paid in rupees that much amount in India.
So I will be making much more money in India.
Plus it was a partnership deal because I never did job for anybody in my life.
So I cannot do job.
and whenever such situation it will make me uneasy like you know because I want to work for myself that's my nature so and they offered me partnership so that was the best offer
for me that I'll be making fixed amount which will be as per the US income I'll be staying in Pune and I am the boss because they also knew because when I was working with them even
though they were indirectly boss but
They used to listen to me, that's the way the company was running even though he was the boss.
So they knew I like to work independently and all.
So that was the best thing for me to come to Pune.
Yeah, makes sense.
So coming back to the financial part, right?
When did you realize that you had reached the fire number or you know, um what did that moment feel like?
Yeah.
No, after coming to Pune, the property at which we wanted to start the whole big setup, we did not even got it in time.
It was like three months delay because whatever they had promised me and whatever my things were within me from almost at the age of 11.
about knowing about the life, how the universe works and why we are here and what is dead and so many things like why there are so many problems in the world and so many questions
were there but I could never give the priority.
So because of this delay I got a comfortable time so I decided which I was always using from last so many years to go to silence and find the
So I decided to go in silence and somehow I don't know how it happened but I was in silence for 4, 5, 6, 7 days and something happened in the 8th On the 8th day I felt
something from within which was never experienced by me and I was feeling so joyful, so...
I cannot express that in words.
So was so happy and I never wanted to come out of it.
So I kept continuing it and it took around 15-20 days and then again a time came where you know because there were some calls coming from US and also I had to tell them that you
know I am not interested.
So they thought like it's because I want some better offer.
So they offered me
much more than they offered me better partnership terms and all but I explained them like somehow you know means now I mean they could not understand they thought I am saying
reasons but I could not leave that silence so then it went on from 15 days to another two months another two months to another six months of course it happened because I had no
fear about money or career because I had visited US I knew my value
I had a got a offer so I know this offer what this company is giving any company will give me so these thoughts were coming because that process was going on but fear was not there
so I could continue the silence and it kept on going for three years.
where a stage came where I have no questions left and I could experience, you know, that, okay, I don't need to know further like something happened.
So I stopped then, but it took three years, question, answers, answers, question, question, answers.
But then the financial part will be there.
So I had not a lot of money, but I had money.
with which I could have bought good bungalow in Pune and bought some good Mercedes car or some car.
So that much money I had.
But because of my inner joy, I thought why should I invest this and again start doing some work and earn money?
Because I knew everything by that time, you know, these questions and answers.
So I had known how the life works.
So I decided not to do.
any investment on monglos or cars or anything because anyway I am getting joy without doing anything I am enjoying so why should I do anything uh materialistically to get the
joy so that money I decided to invest and I didn't wanted to give time to anything so I decided to invest in fixed deposit only so there is no risk and
some part I decided to invest in a property with the view of rental income.
And then I did the calculation like, you know, how it will work and all.
And I met some financial consultant.
So they really created a fear within me that, okay, if this is how you will go, the inflation will increase, the cost of living will increase and a lot of other things they
suggested that this money is not enough and all that.
But at the back of mind I knew like you know means after going through this spiritual process my intelligence has increased and in fact at that time if I decide to make money I
can in fact still make much more money whenever I want to make so that confidence was always there.
So if situation arises I will do that but why to do that now?
Now I don't want to trade my time for money.
So I went with that formula of mind like 50 % in this 50 % like
save in this thing and
my life was very simple.
So the simple formula was whatever money I am getting from the interest and from the rental income, I will spend 50 % and 50 % I will reinvest because they had put that
inflation thing in my mind.
So I reinvest that 50%.
But actually nothing happened like after age of 32.
In fact,
Even what I decided that I will spend 50 % I could never even spend 50 % my spend was whatever fixed income was coming my spend was not more than 20-25 % even though I had made
a provision of 50 % because when you have a inner joy you don't need to do anything outside you don't need to spend money and because of then spirituality the people with
whom I was you know they were all
Big like software company owners and they were all my friends.
So whenever if I have to go somewhere, they will make all the arrangements from my house to pick me up or to go to some places, spend time with them.
So I never had to spend money for anything because if I go out, I'm going out because somebody wants to know something or discuss something because I didn't wanted anything.
So they had something in their mind.
So they will take care of everything.
So the expenses never increased.
So again the amount every year I invested and I never felt any need of money from the age of 32, any need of working for money till my age of 61.
So what I feel is it's not about money or the numbers or the planning or financial freedom.
It's about knowing the life, how it works.
and what actually creates joy in the life and once you have that all best thing in life you can experience without money but for physical comfort of body and mind and
materialistic world when you have money behind this process becomes very simple so I had that money so it became very simple
So you had a spiritual awakening in those three years that you have and then you were like, okay, now I just want to, you know, I'm already happy.
So like, why should I spend all of those, you know, all that money that I have earned and then just keep it invested?
Yeah, so see, the words at that time or today also I would not use the awakening or realization or different words.
What I can say is there was no fear.
No fear.
No fear of death, no fear of money, no fear related to sex or relationship or food or whatever.
No fear.
So that is what I experienced.
And without doing anything, always from within joy.
joy joy and joy continuously.
this once this stage came the only thing as a human what you can do is try to do something for others which also I realize that I did that for few years but I realized that
everybody has their own journey.
So with their own journey only they experience their life and by knowing their life only they can go to the higher stages.
not by somebody telling or answering their questions because it won't be practical experience for that individual and each individual in different stages of life they are
facing different situations.
I kept sharing the wisdom but I took it in a very simple way like then I came out of that also like if somebody
by accident comes in front of me and ask me some questions or something then I will change...
so I was free from that also.
Right.
So I know you but you achieved financial independence like you know 30 years ago, but is there anything that today's generation misunderstands about financial independence?
See again, I won't call it they misunderstood.
What I would from my experience suggest is finance is very important thing.
So make yourself little bit secure.
Remove the fear of money.
That a lot of calculation that I need money for this, what will happen after 10 years, 20 years, that inflation, these, that calculation.
But instead this, make the life.
Once you know the life, how it works, know what date is and what actually lot of people do not know what money is.
It's just a exchange of service.
So, so really know what money is.
Then the financial freedom will automatically evolve.
And
If you really enjoying life and have lot of things to enjoy in life, if you know the life then you would not like to trade your time for the money and that becomes that evolves you
know you cannot plan that evolves in a financial freedom because then naturally you do the things as far as finance is concerned more safe, uh more consistent and rest your needs
are not much.
You look for the alternatives where you can live a simple life and then of course ah you are retired from making money but not from life so you are uh fully busy with the life,
exploring different things in the world.
Right.
But for example, today, if someone comes to and ask, know, Sunil, what I'm in my 20s and 30s currently, ah and I've heard about fire.
So what are some of the advice that you would give them?
Like what habits matter the most?
What should people focus on early in their life or early in their career?
You know, achieve financial independence.
Yeah, see what I concentrated in my case in early ages, I invested in myself.
So today's age, I will advise them, invest yourself in AI.
I'll tell them, leave everything, forget everything.
Forget about financial independence, everything.
Right now concentrate on AI.
Master few tools at whatever level you can master.
Become the best in AI.
Work 24 by 7 on AI.
learn certain tools and create agents or a workflow which can generate money for you.
Right now you will work very hard for three months, six months, nine months, one year, two years.
But once you master the AI and create a system, money will flow automatically.
So even though you are in business, you have a financial freedom and you don't have to work for business.
And that opportunity all these youngsters have got now because there are minimum million opportunities at different level because everything will get converted AI operated.
So somebody who takes the leads now and develops their own setup and business based on AI knowledge, AI solutions, I'm 100 % sure within
one year of 24 by 7 involvement, they will get much more income than they can imagine, where their business is also going, income is coming and they don't have to give time for
generating money.
So this is what I will advise, invest in yourself, know the latest tools of AI, don't think of the money now.
Of course, you need to have
that freedom for one to two years where you don't have to think of money or think of EMI or think of you know how to pay your bills.
So if you are in that situation right now, put all your time, all your energy to learn the latest tool and find one vertical where you can create a solution and you are financially
free.
This is what I would like to share.
And this is what has excited me.
And because of this, first time in my life, after 30 years, I never did anything related to business or anything in 30 years.
But when I heard first time for AI and when I went into detail, in fact, right now I am an AI expert.
Just I have not done anything, but just because of my love of AI, I went so deep.
in acquiring knowledge of different tools and all.
uh it has really caught me like, know, means I left everything, but now at 60, I am fully involved in what's happening in the AI and what new tools are coming and how it will
transform and all that.
And of course, guiding low, high and intelligent students who would have otherwise gone for higher education.
But they realized there is no need to spend so much of time on higher education.
It's better to learn AI now because AI can educate them.
Whatever the education will educate them and practically they can use this time to set up their business.
So I am really excited with AI and that's why now I'm really involved in what's happening in AI and guiding, you know.
Yeah, it's great to hear right like after 30 years of your, you know, not working and trying to work on yourself.
Now you are trying to, you know, go into AI and it's like very fascinating to see that how you have embraced AI and you want to go into that field and you you're also helping others
to, you know, themselves get more into AI and how you're helping, you know, uh students go into AI.
Right.
um So
One question I like to end with is do you think pursuing financial independence was worth it?
For me it was natural because I didn't want to give my time to make money.
So financial independence, if you do not have your life, let's not start it.
Because see you understand financial independence is must because that is the day you are really born.
Till that time you have certain commitments which are not free of fear.
You are not living with love.
So there are only two options, either you live with love or with fear.
If fear is there, love is not there.
So the only way you can live with love is if you are financially, of course, internally also, mentally also, you are totally free.
And you know that nothing can disturb me because I have this much money on saved plant.
But that is the day really your life starts.
because otherwise you are not living the life you are planning for the life till the time you don't become financially free so it is must must and see in my case also I could do
whatever I could do because by then I had my own house by then I have some money which can protect me for 100 years okay my lifestyle will be low or simple but I was okay with that
But then also, compared to the society in which I am living and what they are spending, I had that much money.
was no um problem oh living with the society because I had that much money to spend what they were earning and spending money.
So, it is must to have financial freedom.
One must plan that a day will come in my life where I will get up in the morning
and I don't have to think about money and that is where the life starts and then maybe the creativity with what that person will do can generate even if you talk in terms of money,
lots of money or the value what he will create for the world will be much more than you know planning and working or generating money in
regularly.
Yeah, I just love that idea of, you know, trying to get up in the morning and then not worry about money or not worrying about any job that you have to go to, you know, any
Monday blues and things like that.
So I think really great advice.
So thank you so much for sharing your story and insights today.
I really appreciate you taking the time to talk about your journey.
Thank you so much.
Thank you for giving me this opportunity to share.
It's both the way.
I also really felt good sharing this.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.