WEBVTT 00:00:03.150 --> 00:00:15.230 Okay, so I think if you want to go off the video, that's fine. 00:00:24.782 --> 00:00:25.762 Okay. 00:00:25.802 --> 00:00:28.774 So guys, yeah, go ahead. 00:00:29.706 --> 00:00:31.729 You do your speed. 00:00:31.729 --> 00:00:35.614 You take care of how you want to run it, edit it and give me the cues. 00:00:35.614 --> 00:00:37.936 I'll talk in between. 00:00:41.761 --> 00:00:46.045 So hi everyone, we have ah our today's guest is A.V. 00:00:46.045 --> 00:00:56.185 um He has achieved, we speaking with someone who has achieved like Barista Fire, which is a really interesting version of the financial independence that many people might not know 00:00:56.185 --> 00:00:57.035 about. 00:00:57.356 --> 00:00:58.096 So thanks A.V. 00:00:58.096 --> 00:00:59.597 for joining me today. 00:00:59.718 --> 00:01:04.212 To start off with, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and then your background? 00:01:05.550 --> 00:01:09.190 Sure, Amir, thanks for having me. 00:01:09.390 --> 00:01:12.450 So just a little bit about myself. 00:01:12.610 --> 00:01:17.950 I'm 39 right now, about to turn 40. 00:01:18.030 --> 00:01:34.722 And like you mentioned, I've achieved the burst of fire status with respect to my total network back in 2010. 00:01:34.722 --> 00:01:37.705 when he to 2023. 00:01:37.705 --> 00:01:39.706 So about three years back. 00:01:39.887 --> 00:01:47.414 And uh I'm pretty sure with respect to how my spend goes I've achieved fire by now already. 00:01:47.414 --> 00:01:53.279 So given the way out the network network over the last few years. 00:01:53.279 --> 00:01:56.462 And uh 00:01:56.462 --> 00:02:04.706 uh That's the general stats or where I'm with respect to fire with respect to say how I'm with my career etc. 00:02:04.706 --> 00:02:22.833 So like many Indians they see folks so started off my career as an engineer in one of the which companies and You know for about three years figured out that in my time there that 00:02:23.093 --> 00:02:25.204 You know, it's not 00:02:25.570 --> 00:02:31.334 something that I would want to do long term and started looking at the ZipPads. 00:02:31.434 --> 00:02:47.926 And one of the biggest stress ones that I figured was getting to do a master's degree outside of India as one of the possible fastest ZipPads I would say. 00:02:47.926 --> 00:02:53.669 And when I say ZipPads, it's more of I did not want to work in an environment 00:02:53.998 --> 00:02:56.400 uh which I was currently in. 00:02:56.400 --> 00:02:59.282 So that was my exit path out of that. 00:02:59.282 --> 00:03:13.133 So I took that, basically did a bunch of got a couple of admits and ended up in the US with an MBA degree. 00:03:13.194 --> 00:03:23.534 And I purposefully chose a university that would cost me probably the cheapest in all of the ones that I've applied. 00:03:23.534 --> 00:03:37.305 uh basically was looking for a very good ROI and uh definitely some learnings from there and why it did and did not work as expected as well. 00:03:37.326 --> 00:03:39.428 I can touch upon that later. 00:03:39.428 --> 00:03:45.412 So after MBA, I was extremely lucky. 00:03:45.873 --> 00:03:51.948 I landed off in one of the FAANG companies as a contractor. 00:03:52.006 --> 00:04:13.434 And I was able to convert the contract into a full-time role and worked there for about six years and then jumped ship to one of the older tech companies that was expanding into 00:04:13.514 --> 00:04:17.216 something that was what Tang was doing. 00:04:17.216 --> 00:04:21.547 And that gave me the next major boost in my career. 00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:22.670 as well. 00:04:23.712 --> 00:04:31.878 so overall, I've been working for about 14 years after my MBA. 00:04:31.878 --> 00:04:37.032 so this year is about my 20th year of work. 00:04:37.032 --> 00:04:42.566 And I'm pretty close to RE at this point. 00:04:42.566 --> 00:04:47.609 It's more of a mental uh block or mental status. 00:04:48.020 --> 00:04:59.098 rather than uh just finances like this one, need to figure out what I need to do or what I want to do if I retire early rather than where I go. 00:04:59.098 --> 00:05:14.849 And in between, have a bunch of usual issues like immigration scares, got married, allocated, uh moved to multiple different places, I actually moved countries and again, I 00:05:14.849 --> 00:05:17.160 moved out of the US into Canada. 00:05:17.160 --> 00:05:23.075 And uh I'm here in Canada for about three and a half years. 00:05:23.075 --> 00:05:25.317 So that's important. 00:05:27.138 --> 00:05:28.539 Sure. 00:05:28.539 --> 00:05:42.451 Pretty interesting life, I think a lot of viewers probably will be in the similar boat where oh coming to do masters in the US and then trying to get a job here and then going 00:05:42.451 --> 00:05:44.823 from there and trying to figure out their journey. 00:05:44.823 --> 00:05:46.334 So yeah, pretty interesting. 00:05:46.334 --> 00:05:56.842 ah I think I want to start ah from you trying to explain what Barista Fire means because 00:05:57.007 --> 00:05:58.853 Not many people might know what that means. 00:05:58.853 --> 00:06:00.788 So if you can start from there. 00:06:01.582 --> 00:06:02.642 Sure. 00:06:03.642 --> 00:06:11.962 the term itself, barista fire, would say any. 00:06:13.774 --> 00:06:34.238 uh Your regular annual expenses can be taken care of uh with a combination of a withdrawal from your portfolio and also not a full time but a part time job like a barista or any 00:06:34.238 --> 00:06:37.020 other part time job within that range. 00:06:37.020 --> 00:06:42.766 It's more about the combination of these two things rather than 00:06:42.766 --> 00:06:56.500 uh living like a barista or a typical barista who's say a college student and spending as little as possible and working eight or ten hours a day and fitting their schedule. 00:06:56.500 --> 00:07:10.574 It's more about your school maintaining your current lifestyle but the source of income is a combination of your portfolio withdrawals and a smaller income stream like a barista. 00:07:10.574 --> 00:07:12.314 So that is what 00:07:13.103 --> 00:07:16.138 But sapphire typically signifies. 00:07:17.634 --> 00:07:18.534 Got it. 00:07:18.716 --> 00:07:19.737 Okay. 00:07:19.737 --> 00:07:20.548 Yeah, thank you. 00:07:20.548 --> 00:07:21.319 Thank you for that. 00:07:21.319 --> 00:07:23.221 You know, the piece of advice. 00:07:24.323 --> 00:07:35.197 I think from so was there any like, when did you start thinking seriously about financial independence in this journey? 00:07:35.197 --> 00:07:36.014 m 00:07:36.014 --> 00:07:52.593 Yeah, so I would say from a financial independence perspective, I would say I got serious around 2015, 2016, around that time frame. 00:07:53.674 --> 00:07:58.614 I always serious about finances. 00:07:59.934 --> 00:08:05.014 So I spent my college or undergrad 00:08:05.227 --> 00:08:07.118 out of home. 00:08:07.118 --> 00:08:16.418 I lived in a hostel for a bit and uh lived independently with friends in an apartment while studying. 00:08:16.418 --> 00:08:29.590 So I was always very conscious about budgeting what oh elements my parents would give me monthly versus what I'm spending, how I'm spending it and make sure I have. 00:08:29.686 --> 00:08:43.474 things I spend for things that I really want rather than just spending for the sake of spending or showing it off to someone else. 00:08:43.474 --> 00:08:45.575 So I was always in this kind of project. 00:08:45.575 --> 00:08:57.701 And during my work in India, I actually ended up taking extra night shifts so that I would get the night shift elements. 00:08:58.382 --> 00:09:14.831 oh saved up about six months of night shift plus salary and bought about 100 grams of back in the 2000s time frame. 00:09:14.831 --> 00:09:20.435 like that was, this was typical Indian mentality, right? 00:09:20.435 --> 00:09:23.196 Like what are we investing? 00:09:23.196 --> 00:09:26.858 We things that are tangible, real estate and gold. 00:09:27.385 --> 00:09:31.886 And real estate was probably too big of an investment. 00:09:33.806 --> 00:09:39.006 When I was that young, was 22, probably. 00:09:39.046 --> 00:09:41.206 So gold was the next best thing that I knew. 00:09:41.406 --> 00:09:47.606 And I said, hey, let me go over to MMTC and buy gold bullion. 00:09:47.606 --> 00:09:49.186 I did not even buy jewelry. 00:09:49.186 --> 00:09:56.878 I bought like two 150 grams and two 20 grams and one 10 grams. 00:09:56.878 --> 00:10:04.730 gold bars from the MOTC and gave the way to my mom to be put aside. 00:10:04.730 --> 00:10:13.593 I was always in this kind of mentality and even after, obviously we were not rich growing up. 00:10:13.593 --> 00:10:15.723 I would say we were solid middle class. 00:10:16.004 --> 00:10:17.424 We owned our home. 00:10:17.424 --> 00:10:20.825 We had one vehicle with my dad, not a car. 00:10:20.825 --> 00:10:24.922 uh 00:10:24.922 --> 00:10:37.571 a two wheeler and he bought a second hand kinetic honda for me when I got into plus one plus two so that I didn't go to college instead of taking a bus. 00:10:37.571 --> 00:10:41.994 So we were slightly in the middle to upper middle class. 00:10:41.994 --> 00:10:48.839 I would not say solid upper middle class because we did not have any of the luxuries that are usually associated with the upper middle class. 00:10:48.839 --> 00:10:51.661 So it kind of grew up on that space. 00:10:51.661 --> 00:10:53.952 So I did have to take an education loan. 00:10:54.222 --> 00:11:01.982 I think it was about 11.25 % interest that I had to pay. 00:11:03.102 --> 00:11:16.462 And the total was about 40 lakhs, if I'm not mistaken, because it was around the time when the dollar was 45 to 50 rupees. 00:11:16.602 --> 00:11:22.190 And I spent about $80,000 on my masters. 00:11:22.190 --> 00:11:24.790 because one, it was not funded. 00:11:24.970 --> 00:11:27.470 It was an MBA degree. 00:11:27.550 --> 00:11:38.210 because it was an MBA, it didn't have the associate or the full rider scholarship or anything associated with the typical MS degrees. 00:11:38.210 --> 00:11:40.310 I had to pay for international tuition. 00:11:40.310 --> 00:11:43.110 And that cost me almost 80,000. 00:11:43.110 --> 00:11:45.830 And I had to make a full education loan for that. 00:11:45.830 --> 00:11:48.710 And I had to pay it back. 00:11:49.490 --> 00:11:51.830 So that, again, 00:11:51.982 --> 00:12:02.402 brought me to how fast can I get a job and how much can I save once I have that job. 00:12:03.542 --> 00:12:07.602 And that's where I would say I got really lucky. 00:12:07.642 --> 00:12:18.702 And also, it was kind of a very risky maneuver because I graduated in 2012 with my MBA. 00:12:18.730 --> 00:12:23.072 And that was the time when hiring still did not fully pick up. 00:12:23.193 --> 00:12:32.798 It was uh after the 2008, 2009 recession in the US, the hiring has still not picked up. 00:12:32.798 --> 00:12:37.900 So there was a lot of competition for jobs. 00:12:38.381 --> 00:12:40.974 And we really had to. 00:12:40.974 --> 00:12:48.737 uh It was not, I would say, not as bad as right now in 2016, but it was still bad. 00:12:48.737 --> 00:12:58.982 uh And there was not such an open avenue of applications as well because LinkedIn was still small. 00:12:58.982 --> 00:13:07.566 You still had to go to job fairs to actually get, oh you drop off your resume and... 00:13:07.706 --> 00:13:12.109 then apply online and maybe wish that they would pick up their resume. 00:13:12.109 --> 00:13:29.311 So in that kind of scenario, uh I actually ended up taking a slightly different route, which is a contracting rule, but with a fan company because m one of my classmates 00:13:29.311 --> 00:13:36.806 actually got in with the full time and they were able to recommend to the hiring manager saying, 00:13:37.299 --> 00:13:47.394 If you have typically the open up contract rules and that was one of the pipelines specifically into corporate rules. 00:13:47.394 --> 00:13:51.557 And they got I got into that pipeline because of that. 00:13:51.557 --> 00:13:54.268 Recommend I would say rather than 00:13:56.980 --> 00:13:59.462 recommendation, it was more networking, right? 00:13:59.462 --> 00:14:02.735 That's the term that we use. 00:14:02.735 --> 00:14:03.826 it was a classmate. 00:14:03.826 --> 00:14:05.237 We had very good terms. 00:14:05.237 --> 00:14:12.313 when they were successful in getting a full-time role, they were able to get us into that pipeline. 00:14:12.313 --> 00:14:13.684 Two of us guys, actually. 00:14:13.684 --> 00:14:16.438 And we got in there. 00:14:16.438 --> 00:14:18.328 It was very helpful. 00:14:18.328 --> 00:14:24.053 I would say I did work extremely hard during that time. 00:14:24.053 --> 00:14:24.433 It was... 00:14:24.433 --> 00:14:26.254 oh 00:14:26.254 --> 00:14:31.458 very common 12 to 14 hour days uh for about a year. 00:14:31.458 --> 00:14:40.464 uh after a year, I was able to turn it down to a full-time role. 00:14:40.464 --> 00:14:41.884 Got hired there. 00:14:41.884 --> 00:14:46.168 And 2013 is when I started working full-time over there. 00:14:46.168 --> 00:14:54.194 And during this whole contract period, my only goal was to get rid of my education. 00:14:54.632 --> 00:15:08.554 And then that was a time also dollar started, know, the rupee started depreciating, the dollar started depreciating and I was able to take care of the loan in about 10 months uh 00:15:08.554 --> 00:15:20.343 because of the far it's say, you know, the far it's advantage that I had and I saved aggressively and somehow that became a habit. 00:15:21.454 --> 00:15:26.374 18,000 in 10 months is pretty impressive. 00:15:26.702 --> 00:15:38.802 Yeah, I would say the total, because of the far it's appreciation, I think I got about got it about 10,000, 60,000. 00:15:38.942 --> 00:15:49.142 So even I would say I was living like a student, extremely low, say expenses. 00:15:49.142 --> 00:15:55.162 And it also helped that I was working long hours. 00:15:55.358 --> 00:16:05.326 So I would work, and this is during one of the major expansions of this company. 00:16:05.326 --> 00:16:21.339 You would probably guess by what I'm saying, during, uh this was before Thanksgiving and Christmas where things just ramp up and there was a lot of work and the company expanded 00:16:21.339 --> 00:16:23.841 in those years extremely fast. 00:16:23.841 --> 00:16:25.102 oh 00:16:25.102 --> 00:16:31.662 So there was a lot of work and I spent a lot of time working in rents with doing anything else. 00:16:31.862 --> 00:16:38.582 So my expenses outside were low other than some groceries and rent. 00:16:38.742 --> 00:16:40.602 So I was not spending anything. 00:16:40.602 --> 00:16:49.342 So most of my paycheck was going into, say, getting the loan down. 00:16:49.342 --> 00:16:52.458 And even overtime, they just... 00:16:52.458 --> 00:16:56.279 everything was going in there and I was able to close it out in 10 months. 00:16:56.479 --> 00:17:05.262 And one of the habits that struck from there was I was brutal about what I was spending on. 00:17:05.262 --> 00:17:10.703 uh I would only spend if it could give me any utility or happiness. 00:17:10.703 --> 00:17:14.844 uh So I did not try to not waste money. 00:17:15.144 --> 00:17:20.266 I'll say, I'll go to it in one of the next questions. 00:17:21.241 --> 00:17:29.945 not a regret, but definitely a small mistake that I did around that time. 00:17:29.945 --> 00:17:39.590 I was very brutal and very focused on where I was spending the money. 00:17:39.590 --> 00:17:46.493 yeah, that is how I would say my initial foray into... 00:17:46.493 --> 00:17:48.718 uh 00:17:48.718 --> 00:18:02.418 how I would think about financial independence is get any crazy get out and make sure that I'm for the future. 00:18:03.618 --> 00:18:09.120 And then like, did you have a fire number in mind at that point? 00:18:09.518 --> 00:18:14.318 No, so it was all about getting out of the grip. 00:18:14.318 --> 00:18:20.978 I didn't even know about FIRE until I would say 2019. 00:18:21.038 --> 00:18:25.038 So 2018, 2019 is when I first came across the term. 00:18:25.038 --> 00:18:32.378 And that's when I started doing the calculation of, what's my net worth like? 00:18:32.378 --> 00:18:34.766 What's my expenses are going to look like? 00:18:34.766 --> 00:18:36.606 or track what I'm spending. 00:18:36.606 --> 00:18:49.446 I did track what I was spending annually, but I started categorizing things a bit more carefully into what are my needs versus wants, what is a must-have versus what is a 00:18:49.446 --> 00:19:02.506 luxury, et cetera, et back in 2013 and 2014, when I was in the initial stages of my second career, I did not have any of these terms. 00:19:02.506 --> 00:19:03.826 It was more about 00:19:04.115 --> 00:19:17.640 Am I being uh very systematic about what is coming in and going out in terms of money? 00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:27.745 So you were properly doing your budgeting at that time, know, every penny coming in, every penny going out is something that you were, you know, doing aggressively. 00:19:27.846 --> 00:19:30.206 at a penny level. 00:19:30.206 --> 00:19:35.546 I was probably tracking anything over $50. 00:19:36.466 --> 00:19:41.606 That was my threshold, anything below $50. 00:19:42.346 --> 00:19:45.966 And I would not really look deep into it. 00:19:45.966 --> 00:19:49.866 But anything over $50, would check, hey, is this the right price? 00:19:49.866 --> 00:19:51.626 Or do I have any deals? 00:19:51.626 --> 00:19:54.026 Or is this really needed at this point? 00:19:54.026 --> 00:19:55.006 Et cetera, et 00:19:55.648 --> 00:19:57.480 Got it. 00:19:57.480 --> 00:20:06.109 So what were some of the biggest decisions that helped you move towards this financial independence, you think in your journey? 00:20:06.169 --> 00:20:10.479 If you look at your journey, you know, going maybe starting from 2020? 00:20:10.479 --> 00:20:33.225 From a macro perspective, it is definitely being uh frugal in my case, and also being disciplined about saving a percentage uh of my paycheck. 00:20:33.225 --> 00:20:35.278 So even with my first 00:20:35.278 --> 00:20:43.084 uh job uh even in India, I used to contribute voluntary EPF. 00:20:43.084 --> 00:20:46.256 uh I did the same thing in the US. 00:20:46.256 --> 00:20:49.549 I started 401k from my first paycheck. 00:20:49.549 --> 00:20:59.416 ah And so taking advantage of tax benefited accounts and employer match. 00:20:59.416 --> 00:21:01.837 These are the things that I always did. 00:21:02.420 --> 00:21:16.534 Yeah, and honestly, I don't know how, but probably during one of those conversations with your parents or with whoever your well-wishers are during the start of their career, they 00:21:16.534 --> 00:21:22.369 would give some kind of financial wisdom of what can be done, what cannot be done, et cetera. 00:21:22.369 --> 00:21:27.574 I probably picked up on those things, and that's how I came to know about that. 00:21:27.594 --> 00:21:33.656 employer benefits that everyone should take advantage of. 00:21:33.656 --> 00:21:38.097 So some of these follow things I did from the start of every job. 00:21:38.217 --> 00:21:53.561 Some of the other things is, before even a paycheck hits my account, uh would uh set up a role within my payroll saying uh X percent would go to a different account and that gets 00:21:53.561 --> 00:21:55.521 invested or saved. 00:21:55.642 --> 00:21:57.516 I would only get a part. 00:21:57.516 --> 00:22:01.267 smaller percentage of the paycheck into my account. 00:22:01.267 --> 00:22:08.530 And to be honest, my base pay has been pretty low. 00:22:08.651 --> 00:22:15.133 Over the years, the maths base pay that I got was about 140K UST. 00:22:15.153 --> 00:22:19.675 There, I definitely like doubt was RSUs. 00:22:19.775 --> 00:22:26.718 And because I worked in tech companies uh and RSUs was where the 00:22:27.278 --> 00:22:29.900 uh most of the growth happened. 00:22:29.900 --> 00:22:41.869 uh I would say apart from one or two years, I've saved most of my RSU. 00:22:41.869 --> 00:22:50.398 I basically considered that as a complete bonus, never had plans to spend it and just soaked away all of that money. 00:22:50.398 --> 00:22:53.337 I did diversify a bit of that. 00:22:53.337 --> 00:22:55.078 uh 00:22:55.334 --> 00:23:01.058 just because concentration risk, these terms, I came to know about it later. 00:23:02.279 --> 00:23:13.687 I diversified a bit out of that employer stock, got into ETFs and all of that. 00:23:13.687 --> 00:23:21.072 obviously having that ability to do that is also very lucky. 00:23:22.926 --> 00:23:41.406 So the factors, like you said, having the discipline and also having a recently well-paying job and being able to live a lifestyle which is not, say, not about instant 00:23:41.406 --> 00:23:45.806 gratification is the way that I put it, is probably the biggest things. 00:23:45.806 --> 00:23:51.182 And one major thing that I would mention is also having the 00:23:51.182 --> 00:23:55.303 uh alignment with your partner. 00:23:55.403 --> 00:24:00.422 So I got married uh early in 2014. 00:24:00.465 --> 00:24:19.770 And I was able to discuss in detail with my wife on what my say, financial outlook was in life and how I want to do things and uh she was very much in alignment with my values. 00:24:19.810 --> 00:24:21.322 And that helped. 00:24:21.322 --> 00:24:23.113 That helped immensely. 00:24:23.113 --> 00:24:26.295 I'll expand on why. 00:24:26.295 --> 00:24:44.657 But more than half of my network right now is probably because we were able to combine our savings and also our expenses together and keep the lifestyle. 00:24:45.070 --> 00:24:57.310 I would not say keep the lifestyle creep to minimum, lifestyle creep definitely happens, keep it sustainable is what they would say at this level. 00:24:57.310 --> 00:25:04.190 And that is the main reason we were able to get into the five status. 00:25:05.048 --> 00:25:05.899 product. 00:25:05.940 --> 00:25:11.717 And when did you realize that you had reached the point where know, Burris the fire was possible? 00:25:11.717 --> 00:25:14.142 What did that moment feel like? 00:25:15.054 --> 00:25:15.914 Sure. 00:25:15.914 --> 00:25:19.914 So Barista Fire itself was probably around 2022. 00:25:21.014 --> 00:25:22.394 Not even 2020. 00:25:22.394 --> 00:25:40.074 Yeah, 2022 is when, just after all the COVID peaks and valleys and everything happened, I redid some of what they were spending over the last couple of years, looked at what our 00:25:40.074 --> 00:25:43.242 then network was and figured out, hey, yeah. 00:25:43.242 --> 00:25:51.074 It probably, between Coast Fire and Barista Fire is when we're at the bar. 00:25:51.074 --> 00:25:57.266 Coast is basically, uh you're not add anything more to savings, you just start to withdraw. 00:25:57.266 --> 00:26:05.228 You keep your uh portfolio, let it grow while your expenses are taken care of with your current job. 00:26:05.228 --> 00:26:12.366 And Barista is basically when you go on slightliness, but start withdrawing slightly from the portfolio as well. 00:26:12.526 --> 00:26:23.449 We were somewhere in between there and it was I would say it was not very different, you know, because I was still not at that point where I would put my day job, you know, or I 00:26:23.449 --> 00:26:26.480 would do anything drastically different. 00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:31.651 And this is also probably because I was in the U.S. 00:26:31.931 --> 00:26:34.612 I was still on a visa that was tied to my job. 00:26:34.612 --> 00:26:37.673 My wife was on a visa which was tied to her job. 00:26:38.113 --> 00:26:41.794 So we were not even though we achieved say 00:26:42.408 --> 00:26:57.006 uh, know, from a money perspective, we were still not in a position to just put our job and say, I'm going to do something else because I have enough. 00:26:57.987 --> 00:27:03.590 So, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's, uh, so to answer your question, did it feel any different? 00:27:03.590 --> 00:27:04.370 Probably no. 00:27:04.370 --> 00:27:11.074 Uh, when things changed was when we decided, you know, Hey, we were passed, by the stuff I, or 00:27:11.374 --> 00:27:21.734 in another year in 2023 because of some major vests that came in with my job and my wife's job. 00:27:21.734 --> 00:27:27.694 We added almost one fourth of our net worth in that one year. 00:27:27.714 --> 00:27:29.834 And they were past the first day of our point. 00:27:29.834 --> 00:27:35.934 And at that point, we were like, what are we even doing in the US at this time with this uncertainty? 00:27:36.014 --> 00:27:40.078 We also had a who was growing up and we said, 00:27:40.078 --> 00:27:46.918 hey, we might want to move out of the US if this makes sense. 00:27:47.558 --> 00:27:51.358 So 2023 is when we moved to Canada. 00:27:51.558 --> 00:27:55.278 The planning and the process started years back. 00:27:55.478 --> 00:27:59.338 And because of various uncertainties like, know, in the years. 00:28:00.798 --> 00:28:05.278 And 2023 is when we triggered that time and said, let's move. 00:28:05.658 --> 00:28:09.298 And my wife was able to transfer her role. 00:28:09.698 --> 00:28:11.319 from the US to Canada. 00:28:11.319 --> 00:28:13.180 So we moved with a job. 00:28:13.180 --> 00:28:17.963 I actually resigned my job in the US and moved here without a job. 00:28:17.963 --> 00:28:24.866 oh And I took about uh two years off uh before I went back to work again. 00:28:25.147 --> 00:28:38.572 So during this time is when probably I would say the real uh test of not exactly a retired early time frame, but more of a 00:28:38.572 --> 00:28:40.943 What would I, what would my day look like? 00:28:40.943 --> 00:28:42.674 What would I spend time on? 00:28:42.674 --> 00:28:50.167 I picked up a bunch of different hobbies, spent time very well, but I still was a bit bored, you know, to be honest. 00:28:50.167 --> 00:28:57.102 And that's the main reason I took back, went back to work with my same old company. 00:28:57.102 --> 00:29:03.312 They were able to hire me in Canada and I uh went back to work. 00:29:03.312 --> 00:29:06.374 uh And probably in... 00:29:06.374 --> 00:29:07.328 uh 00:29:07.328 --> 00:29:09.720 another maybe year or two. 00:29:11.263 --> 00:29:23.618 Like I said earlier on, it's more about the mental block rather than financial block at this point that we want to get into a RE mode. 00:29:24.738 --> 00:29:26.669 Got it. 00:29:26.669 --> 00:29:36.957 That sounds wonderful that in 2023 you were actually able to get to a point where you were able to reach actual financial independence and uh whatever savings you have, whatever 00:29:36.957 --> 00:29:40.559 investments you have, you're able to live uh off of that. 00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:43.771 I think that's dream for a lot of people. 00:29:45.613 --> 00:29:53.258 So yeah, what is the most surprising part about this phase of life? 00:29:55.602 --> 00:30:08.032 I would say the biggest thing is clarity about what you want and what you don't want definitely improves. 00:30:08.954 --> 00:30:11.535 And it's not just about work. 00:30:11.676 --> 00:30:17.091 It's about how you want to lead your life as well. 00:30:17.091 --> 00:30:22.805 Previously, there was a lot of emphasis 00:30:23.262 --> 00:30:36.666 even within ourselves to tell the world that we are successful or show the world that we are successful, which is basically in terms of material things, um like having a very nice 00:30:36.666 --> 00:30:45.725 car, having a very nice home, going on uh trips, posting about it on social media, etc. 00:30:46.158 --> 00:30:58.158 And after the financial shift happened, it was more about, hey, I'm doing all of this, but at what cost? 00:30:58.258 --> 00:31:08.998 It's like the cost of spending eight to 10 hours a day chained to a desk and working for someone else. 00:31:10.258 --> 00:31:13.098 Not that it was wrong. 00:31:13.098 --> 00:31:15.978 It was not just for me at that point. 00:31:17.003 --> 00:31:24.728 And small things started, why the hell am I doing this for? 00:31:25.048 --> 00:31:27.950 If it was not for the money, would I do it? 00:31:27.950 --> 00:31:43.041 So these kind of thoughts or questions for myself changed the outlook in terms of, do I want to do this for another year or another two years or another 10 years? 00:31:43.041 --> 00:31:45.612 The answer was definitely no, not for 10 years. 00:31:45.946 --> 00:31:47.808 Maybe two years, maybe three years. 00:31:47.808 --> 00:31:51.832 Maybe yeah, that's where it started. 00:31:51.832 --> 00:32:07.806 And that led to, how do we plan our future, which with uh our expenses uh and lifestyle, what do we want to sustain or do we not want to sustain? 00:32:07.806 --> 00:32:10.408 And what do we need for that? 00:32:10.408 --> 00:32:12.494 And those calculations back and. 00:32:12.494 --> 00:32:14.054 also expectations. 00:32:14.354 --> 00:32:16.414 Do we want to live here? 00:32:16.414 --> 00:32:19.214 Do we want to say move back to India? 00:32:19.214 --> 00:32:24.354 Or do we want to move to a different country by living in another country? 00:32:24.354 --> 00:32:25.834 What does that look like? 00:32:25.834 --> 00:32:26.894 What does it cost? 00:32:26.894 --> 00:32:29.774 So all of these questions start popping up as well. 00:32:30.354 --> 00:32:34.794 So in a way, it was very liberating. 00:32:35.034 --> 00:32:40.884 And the clarity of thought or even the ability to think this way 00:32:40.884 --> 00:32:49.440 is only because we had the foundation of having achieved fight. 00:32:50.162 --> 00:32:55.666 So that was the most important change that I see in myself and my spouse. 00:32:56.928 --> 00:32:59.021 Nice, really interesting stuff. 00:32:59.764 --> 00:33:05.613 So looking back, what's one financial mistake oh that taught you like an important lesson? 00:33:06.926 --> 00:33:07.666 Oh, right. 00:33:07.666 --> 00:33:08.466 Yeah. 00:33:08.786 --> 00:33:18.466 So it ties exactly back to the signaling to the world that you're successful. 00:33:19.106 --> 00:33:32.926 So I got myself a German SUV back in 2013. 00:33:33.070 --> 00:33:44.130 And the way I funded it was selling off some of my stock that I got early on in my first job. 00:33:44.410 --> 00:33:56.450 And just for the down payment, was, I put down probably $15,000 as a down payment, got the vehicle, started driving it, felt amazing. 00:33:59.086 --> 00:34:02.866 I did enjoy it, enjoy the vehicle for about two, two and a half years. 00:34:02.866 --> 00:34:04.986 After that, it was just a car. 00:34:05.066 --> 00:34:12.766 Like I did not have the special feeling about, know, did I feel very nice about it? 00:34:12.766 --> 00:34:13.966 It was a car. 00:34:13.966 --> 00:34:16.426 It was taking me from point A to point B. 00:34:16.786 --> 00:34:19.506 You know, like was I proud about it? 00:34:19.526 --> 00:34:24.406 I was not, you know, just looking at it all day. 00:34:24.406 --> 00:34:28.661 I would just look at it when I was walking in the parking lot and, you know, just hop in it. 00:34:28.661 --> 00:34:38.637 I barely took it through car washes because again, I was not that car person. 00:34:38.637 --> 00:34:43.390 But the reason I bought it was to show the world that I was successful. 00:34:43.390 --> 00:34:47.362 I was able to spend so much on a car. 00:34:47.362 --> 00:34:56.978 again, the reason I say this was probably the biggest mistake is if I had the stock without selling. 00:34:57.230 --> 00:35:00.970 that would have been $300,000 right now. 00:35:01.650 --> 00:35:07.550 15 grand that I spent in 2013 would have been 300 grand right now. 00:35:07.630 --> 00:35:09.910 And it's an expensive. 00:35:09.910 --> 00:35:10.570 Yeah, exactly. 00:35:10.570 --> 00:35:11.850 It's an expensive. 00:35:12.750 --> 00:35:19.390 So I keep telling myself, even though I bought a, say, German, it was an Audi. 00:35:19.390 --> 00:35:25.090 And even though I bought an Audi, it probably costed me more than a Rolls Royce. 00:35:26.138 --> 00:35:27.219 Yeah. 00:35:27.219 --> 00:35:32.341 But again, I did not regret it at all. 00:35:32.341 --> 00:35:40.924 So it's a mistake, but it's not something that I regret because like I said, I enjoyed the car, enjoyed it for, definitely enjoyed it for two years. 00:35:40.924 --> 00:35:54.702 I used the vehicle for about uh seven or eight years and after which uh one of my friends while driving it got into a small accident and it was written off. 00:35:54.702 --> 00:36:00.082 And, but thankfully it was well optioned. 00:36:00.082 --> 00:36:01.682 So no one was injured. 00:36:01.942 --> 00:36:03.622 everything was good. 00:36:04.042 --> 00:36:05.582 So I enjoyed the vehicle. 00:36:05.582 --> 00:36:14.402 was from a, say total cost of ownership, probably not as cheap, but total enjoyment, definitely enjoyed it. 00:36:14.402 --> 00:36:23.950 So it was not a blunder, but it was probably say something that in hindsight I would have probably done differently. 00:36:23.950 --> 00:36:27.828 oh would have helped me much more financially. 00:36:28.544 --> 00:36:29.194 Got it. 00:36:29.194 --> 00:36:41.138 think for a lot of people, think cars, at least for guys, think cars and know, bikes or maybe like a house, I think is one of the top things that are probably, you know, they are 00:36:41.138 --> 00:36:41.938 aspiring to. 00:36:41.938 --> 00:36:49.800 then once, like you said, once we have those things, it's really difficult to, know, sustain the joy for a long period of time. 00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:50.200 Right. 00:36:50.200 --> 00:36:54.251 It just keeps decreasing like the, like the price of the car. 00:36:54.251 --> 00:36:54.802 Right. 00:36:54.802 --> 00:36:56.682 It's appreciating asset. 00:36:56.718 --> 00:37:01.071 It's a diminishing value. 00:37:01.071 --> 00:37:07.925 for that, again, it's not wrong, Like, why do we all earn all of this money? 00:37:07.925 --> 00:37:13.007 Like, we want to enjoy it, we want to spend it and be happy. 00:37:13.007 --> 00:37:15.469 If it gives you happiness, definitely do it. 00:37:15.469 --> 00:37:23.933 In my case, I felt happy for some time, but it decreased because primarily I was not a car guy. 00:37:24.414 --> 00:37:25.174 What? 00:37:25.174 --> 00:37:29.318 which was not what I released, you know, I should have realized earlier. 00:37:29.318 --> 00:37:36.644 Say it would have been better spent off in something else, maybe, which would have given me more happiness. 00:37:36.644 --> 00:37:52.706 So I think that is probably my biggest lesson from that is, if it was not cars, and if I say, spent that on a flight, know, business class for my parents. 00:37:52.706 --> 00:37:55.488 probably would have given me more happiness. 00:37:55.949 --> 00:38:00.753 I spent traveling uh Europe for a couple of months. 00:38:00.873 --> 00:38:02.875 That would have probably given me more happiness. 00:38:02.875 --> 00:38:15.246 So again, that is probably what we think is what gives us the most happiness by spending that money and be intentional about spending it on those things. 00:38:15.886 --> 00:38:32.322 ah So for someone in their 20s or 30s who is hearing about fire because we have so many podcasts and things, YouTube videos going on, what advice would you give them? 00:38:32.322 --> 00:38:37.566 What habits matter the most and what should people really focus on early on? 00:38:39.146 --> 00:38:47.711 So my biggest take is there is no uh instant gratification with fire. 00:38:47.711 --> 00:38:50.593 ah It's a long term mindset. 00:38:50.593 --> 00:39:00.318 uh You would not see results in a month or two months or even a couple of years. 00:39:00.538 --> 00:39:07.382 It definitely needs a very long term mindset on, let's say, how we would want to. 00:39:07.674 --> 00:39:11.755 look at things, it takes the time. 00:39:11.755 --> 00:39:26.160 So if someone is looking into, achieving financial independence very fast, it's probably not for them. 00:39:26.160 --> 00:39:32.302 You need to set your expectations right in that case. 00:39:32.622 --> 00:39:45.832 uh So for people who are looking at fire, say for the right reasons in the right mindset, definitely thinking about how they want to save. 00:39:46.754 --> 00:39:49.056 Some of the redress are definitely there, right? 00:39:49.056 --> 00:40:01.645 Like you need to get into a stable career or job, work as hard as you can in your initial years to get to that slightly stable position. 00:40:02.070 --> 00:40:16.401 Yeah, you know, I might be still old school in some of these things is stick to a particular job or a career for least two or three years so that you can learn from there 00:40:16.401 --> 00:40:19.042 and contribute to your group. 00:40:19.243 --> 00:40:25.748 Yeah, it might be slightly different in the last four or five years after post-COVID. 00:40:25.748 --> 00:40:28.909 I've seen people changing jobs very often. 00:40:29.422 --> 00:40:33.063 could be the new reality for all I know. 00:40:33.623 --> 00:40:45.596 But if your skills do not match up to, say, the expectations from employers, you're not going to be allowed to stay in the job for long. 00:40:45.596 --> 00:40:51.808 So that will not give you enough platform to be able to jump off to the next level. 00:40:51.808 --> 00:40:58.658 So that is where my advice is stick to something for a couple of years or three years at least. 00:40:58.658 --> 00:41:01.440 before you start thinking of jumping in somewhere else. 00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:07.704 So that gives you uh a stable earning platform. 00:41:08.105 --> 00:41:23.716 Use or make use of budgeting tools to track your expenses and uh see what amount you can save and invest that aggressively from the start. 00:41:23.716 --> 00:41:26.918 oh 00:41:27.018 --> 00:41:36.623 my initial investing, even though it was in gold back in the day, uh did pay off very handsomely if you look at the gold prices now. 00:41:36.843 --> 00:41:46.809 But for at least three or four years before now, at least until COVID, gold was a very safe industry. 00:41:47.249 --> 00:41:50.491 That was a very low growing asset. 00:41:50.491 --> 00:41:54.733 It was more of a hedge against infection. 00:41:55.214 --> 00:41:56.350 I realized that 00:41:56.350 --> 00:41:58.691 you know, about 2014. 00:41:58.691 --> 00:42:01.552 So that's when I started investing into ETFs. 00:42:02.853 --> 00:42:07.795 the stock market is where the significant returns are. 00:42:07.935 --> 00:42:15.818 After taking a couple of finance courses during masters, that's when I started realizing, hey, what do I want to invest in? 00:42:15.818 --> 00:42:20.380 How do I look at investment returns, etc. 00:42:20.380 --> 00:42:24.282 Learning about having these resources and learning about these things makes sense. 00:42:24.504 --> 00:42:27.736 putting it into practice is even more important. 00:42:28.157 --> 00:42:38.887 So packing your expenses, making sure you are investing aggressively uh for a significant amount of time. 00:42:38.887 --> 00:42:42.790 Obviously, if you have a high income, your savings will be higher. 00:42:42.790 --> 00:42:45.873 So you will reach the goal faster. 00:42:45.873 --> 00:42:51.566 But if you do not have a high income, making sure your proportion of savings uh 00:42:51.566 --> 00:43:00.586 is relatively high actually, it is much more to build the discipline rather than just having a high income. 00:43:00.586 --> 00:43:05.686 So you might earn 200k and blow everything out. 00:43:05.806 --> 00:43:15.606 But if you say, 100k and save 50 % of that, you'll be in a much better off position than a high income owner. 00:43:15.686 --> 00:43:18.466 So having that discipline definitely matters. 00:43:19.006 --> 00:43:20.654 having a target 00:43:20.654 --> 00:43:23.914 Obviously, it's important. 00:43:24.194 --> 00:43:28.334 need to realize what you want to do in life. 00:43:28.334 --> 00:43:30.054 Do you want to keep working? 00:43:30.054 --> 00:43:31.214 Do you want to... 00:43:31.214 --> 00:43:33.914 And for some people, is absolutely fine. 00:43:34.014 --> 00:43:40.494 They want to be long-term career people. 00:43:40.494 --> 00:43:43.134 And I absolutely respect that. 00:43:43.394 --> 00:43:46.034 There are a lot of people who do that for years. 00:43:46.134 --> 00:43:49.314 And they are still very happy. 00:43:49.996 --> 00:43:56.773 You need to realize or understand what is for you and then act accordingly. 00:43:58.734 --> 00:44:00.334 Got it. 00:44:00.694 --> 00:44:07.558 One final question that I like to end with is, do you think pursuing financial independence was worth it? 00:44:09.058 --> 00:44:10.818 For me, absolutely. 00:44:11.999 --> 00:44:20.981 So not only professionally, or not only personally, even professionally, it actually makes sense. 00:44:20.981 --> 00:44:31.884 Because now I only work if I want to and like the job. 00:44:32.065 --> 00:44:37.006 And the reason I specifically say that is work is an option. 00:44:37.006 --> 00:44:57.425 oh And my current job that I'm back at same company, but I went back to a different mission and different org, which again was much more aligned to what say the long-term 00:44:57.425 --> 00:44:59.185 value that I would want to do. 00:44:59.185 --> 00:45:06.062 It was more in a space that I liked and I built my career rather than. 00:45:06.062 --> 00:45:11.346 say something that I was trusting to and something that I enjoyed doing. 00:45:11.346 --> 00:45:14.748 And I'm extremely confident in doing it as well. 00:45:14.748 --> 00:45:27.156 And over here, uh if I do not like what the job is turning into or uh has turned into, I'll just walk away from it. 00:45:27.156 --> 00:45:28.277 Like no regrets. 00:45:28.277 --> 00:45:33.350 And because the primary reason being I don't need to teach it anymore. 00:45:33.350 --> 00:45:35.982 And that for me is... 00:45:36.044 --> 00:45:51.707 probably worth more than just a high-paying carrier because I choose to do or I choose to do what I want to do in this case. 00:45:51.707 --> 00:46:00.174 So that was probably the ultimate game changer for me in respect to getting to the fire status. 00:46:01.026 --> 00:46:02.668 Yeah, sounds wonderful. 00:46:02.686 --> 00:46:03.370 All right, A.V. 00:46:03.370 --> 00:46:06.515 Thank you so much for sharing your story and insights with us today. 00:46:06.515 --> 00:46:10.522 I really appreciate you taking the time to talk about your journey. 00:46:10.522 --> 00:46:11.502 Thank you so much. 00:46:11.502 --> 00:46:12.722 See you in a few minutes. 00:46:12.722 --> 00:46:13.442 Peace.