WEBVTT 00:00:07.629 --> 00:00:11.849 Welcome to Sales Talk for CEOs. I'm glad you're 00:00:11.849 --> 00:00:15.830 here. I'll be interviewing CEOs who have successfully 00:00:15.830 --> 00:00:19.449 scaled their B2B sales organization. In each 00:00:19.449 --> 00:00:23.010 episode, I'll start by uncovering the sales background 00:00:23.010 --> 00:00:26.809 of each CEO, dig into the strategies they use 00:00:26.809 --> 00:00:29.850 to build their sales organization, and wrap it 00:00:29.850 --> 00:00:32.890 up with what the future holds. We'll cover the 00:00:32.890 --> 00:00:36.090 good, the bad, and the ugly of scaling a sales 00:00:36.090 --> 00:00:46.619 organization. I'm your host, Alice Hyman. Hi, 00:00:46.820 --> 00:00:51.000 I'm Alice Hyman. And today I'm launching a podcast 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:56.000 specifically for CEOs who want to make a huge 00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:59.280 impact on sales in their organizations. They 00:00:59.280 --> 00:01:02.560 may already be doing this or they may just be 00:01:02.560 --> 00:01:05.709 starting, but... They want to learn from other 00:01:05.709 --> 00:01:09.030 CEOs who have done it, the good, the bad, and 00:01:09.030 --> 00:01:12.170 the ugly. And here to help me launch is my good 00:01:12.170 --> 00:01:17.329 friend and master storyteller, Park Howell. Hi, 00:01:17.370 --> 00:01:20.750 Alice. This is just an absolute honor to be on 00:01:20.750 --> 00:01:24.010 your inaugural show. Thanks for having me. This 00:01:24.010 --> 00:01:26.870 is so cool. I wish I had found you about 30 years 00:01:26.870 --> 00:01:29.569 ago when I was building my ad agency. I think 00:01:29.569 --> 00:01:31.730 it would have been way easier because I knew 00:01:31.730 --> 00:01:35.469 bupkis about selling myself. You know, I've heard 00:01:35.469 --> 00:01:38.290 a lot of CEOs tell me that, Park, that they wish 00:01:38.290 --> 00:01:40.810 they had met me a long time ago. Because one 00:01:40.810 --> 00:01:43.890 of the things that I do is, as you know, I help 00:01:43.890 --> 00:01:46.950 make sales easier. And who doesn't want to make 00:01:46.950 --> 00:01:50.209 sales easier at their sales organization? Yeah, 00:01:50.250 --> 00:01:52.670 you're absolutely right. And what I like about 00:01:52.670 --> 00:01:54.969 your positioning in the market, because as you 00:01:54.969 --> 00:01:56.650 know, I've been in the branding world for 35 00:01:56.650 --> 00:01:59.069 years, and that's been my core job is positioning 00:01:59.069 --> 00:02:02.370 folks, is the fact that you work specifically 00:02:02.370 --> 00:02:08.289 with CEOs, asking that tough question. Are sales 00:02:08.289 --> 00:02:10.409 where you want them to be? Right. And you always 00:02:10.409 --> 00:02:13.400 say no. Next question, of course, is, Well, is 00:02:13.400 --> 00:02:16.360 it your fault? And I really love that positioning 00:02:16.360 --> 00:02:18.659 for what you're doing with this program and what 00:02:18.659 --> 00:02:20.939 you do with your services. Yeah, I think that 00:02:20.939 --> 00:02:23.780 sometimes CEOs, especially if they've never been 00:02:23.780 --> 00:02:26.319 in sales, really don't feel like sales is their 00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:29.990 thing or that they should really. be involved 00:02:29.990 --> 00:02:32.650 very much in sales at their organization, especially 00:02:32.650 --> 00:02:34.870 the more mature companies that I work with that 00:02:34.870 --> 00:02:40.849 may be 5, 10, or even 30 years old. But my feeling 00:02:40.849 --> 00:02:43.729 is that a CEO always has a role in sales. From 00:02:43.729 --> 00:02:45.909 being the founder and maybe doing all of the 00:02:45.909 --> 00:02:48.669 selling to a 30 -year -old company where they 00:02:48.669 --> 00:02:51.530 may be ready to exit, they always have a role 00:02:51.530 --> 00:02:55.069 in sales. It just changes as the organization 00:02:55.069 --> 00:03:00.030 matures. begs the question then alice after all 00:03:00.030 --> 00:03:02.389 these years you are launching your own podcast 00:03:02.389 --> 00:03:07.009 and it's not about selling to ceos like many 00:03:07.009 --> 00:03:10.229 many shows are out there it's really about the 00:03:10.229 --> 00:03:14.110 ceo and how they can get better at helping to 00:03:14.110 --> 00:03:17.210 direct their revenue organization and that they 00:03:17.210 --> 00:03:20.030 have to be at the center of that in one way, 00:03:20.050 --> 00:03:21.810 shape, or form and how you help them do that. 00:03:21.949 --> 00:03:25.229 Right, exactly. So selling to CEOs is another 00:03:25.229 --> 00:03:27.129 problem that does need to be covered. However, 00:03:27.310 --> 00:03:30.310 that is not the one I am covering. It really 00:03:30.310 --> 00:03:34.509 is about how the CEO can help with the sales 00:03:34.509 --> 00:03:38.819 strategy. And more importantly, support that 00:03:38.819 --> 00:03:43.400 sales strategy wholeheartedly so that the sales 00:03:43.400 --> 00:03:46.840 team, you know, from CRO down or, you know, if 00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:48.360 you're a smaller company, you don't have a CRO 00:03:48.360 --> 00:03:51.139 yet, the director of sales, VP of sales, or even 00:03:51.139 --> 00:03:54.479 just sales manager, but that team can execute, 00:03:54.599 --> 00:03:59.780 right? In conjunction with marketing and customer 00:03:59.780 --> 00:04:03.659 success, because the world is changing and it's 00:04:03.659 --> 00:04:07.759 more, more quickly than ever, right? With COVID 00:04:07.759 --> 00:04:09.800 and everything that's happened. And so we're 00:04:09.800 --> 00:04:12.919 seeing the customer change the way they're buying. 00:04:13.159 --> 00:04:20.379 And we now have to become more... adept at engaging 00:04:20.379 --> 00:04:24.279 that buyer. And that means that we have to look 00:04:24.279 --> 00:04:26.819 at things a different way. We have to put ourselves 00:04:26.819 --> 00:04:29.240 out to the world in a different way. And that 00:04:29.240 --> 00:04:31.399 means that sales, marketing, and customer success 00:04:31.399 --> 00:04:35.160 have to think together about that journey of 00:04:35.160 --> 00:04:37.879 the customer and where they intersect with that. 00:04:40.040 --> 00:04:43.160 This is broader than just the sales team. The 00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:46.360 CEO must be involved because they've got to set 00:04:46.360 --> 00:04:48.620 that strategy, set that vision for how we're 00:04:48.620 --> 00:04:51.660 going to interact with the customer. bring all 00:04:51.660 --> 00:04:56.459 the teams together around that so that they can 00:04:56.459 --> 00:04:59.800 move forward and really help their customers. 00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:01.660 And by doing that, of course, you know, they 00:05:01.660 --> 00:05:04.980 gain more sales. Well, you have a long storied 00:05:04.980 --> 00:05:08.720 career in sales strategy consulting, and you 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:11.579 come from the famous Miller -Hyman background. 00:05:12.670 --> 00:05:16.009 Would you share your backstory with us? I always 00:05:16.009 --> 00:05:19.189 am fascinated when I host my show, The Business 00:05:19.189 --> 00:05:22.110 of Story for the past six years is talking to 00:05:22.110 --> 00:05:24.769 these leaders like yourself and what got you 00:05:24.769 --> 00:05:26.970 going and what were the highs and lows that have 00:05:26.970 --> 00:05:30.069 really informed who you are today and leading 00:05:30.069 --> 00:05:33.610 up to why you're doing this show? Yeah, my backstory 00:05:33.610 --> 00:05:36.170 is a pretty interesting one considering the fact 00:05:36.170 --> 00:05:40.329 that I didn't start in sales, and I never intended 00:05:40.329 --> 00:05:44.689 to go into sales. It's pretty interesting. I 00:05:44.689 --> 00:05:48.360 started as a public school teacher. And I actually 00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:51.180 taught special education and I was a reading 00:05:51.180 --> 00:05:54.819 specialist for about 13 years before I ever went 00:05:54.819 --> 00:05:59.500 into business. So I really had no intention of 00:05:59.500 --> 00:06:02.720 being a salesperson or doing really anything 00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:05.759 related to sales. Little did I know once I got 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:08.480 into sales that being a teacher is a lot like 00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:11.500 being a seller. You are constantly selling your 00:06:11.500 --> 00:06:16.019 ideas to... students and parents, right, to get 00:06:16.019 --> 00:06:18.980 them to do all kinds of fun things to learn. 00:06:19.160 --> 00:06:23.519 But I got catapulted into the world of sales 00:06:23.519 --> 00:06:27.600 because my father, as some of you know, was partners 00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:31.879 with Bob Miller in Miller Hyman. And he had bought 00:06:31.879 --> 00:06:34.980 Bob Miller out of the business in the late 80s 00:06:34.980 --> 00:06:38.259 and was growing the business with his wife, Diane. 00:06:39.069 --> 00:06:41.290 And they kept inviting me to come work for them 00:06:41.290 --> 00:06:43.709 full time. Now, I had been doing projects on 00:06:43.709 --> 00:06:46.970 the side for them for a long time, but they wanted 00:06:46.970 --> 00:06:50.029 me to work for them full time. And I kept saying, 00:06:50.089 --> 00:06:54.350 but I'm a teacher. So anyway, eventually. I did 00:06:54.350 --> 00:06:57.670 go work for them, and it was a lot of fun. I 00:06:57.670 --> 00:07:00.649 learned a ton. I worked with all the curriculum 00:07:00.649 --> 00:07:02.990 in the Miller -Hyman program, strategic selling 00:07:02.990 --> 00:07:07.149 and conceptual selling. I got to work with some 00:07:07.149 --> 00:07:10.170 of the largest customers. Of course, I started 00:07:10.170 --> 00:07:12.149 selling, even though that wasn't why they hired 00:07:12.149 --> 00:07:14.829 me. Specifically, they hired me more on the curriculum 00:07:14.829 --> 00:07:18.089 end of things, actually, Park, which was kind 00:07:18.089 --> 00:07:20.649 of interesting. And then I just naturally started 00:07:20.649 --> 00:07:24.230 working with our clients and selling. trained 00:07:24.230 --> 00:07:26.589 all of the Miller -Hyman programs for those years 00:07:26.589 --> 00:07:29.730 that I worked there. And I also trained the trainers 00:07:29.730 --> 00:07:32.790 and coached them to make sure they were successful. 00:07:33.009 --> 00:07:35.870 So all the stuff I learned to do as a teacher 00:07:35.870 --> 00:07:39.449 really helped coming forward into my sales career 00:07:39.449 --> 00:07:42.850 with Miller -Hyman and getting that launched. 00:07:42.949 --> 00:07:46.009 But it wasn't long before my dad decided he wanted 00:07:46.009 --> 00:07:48.730 to sell the company. And so I started my own 00:07:48.730 --> 00:07:52.079 company. Here we are. I started working with 00:07:52.079 --> 00:07:56.019 CEOs and I loved it so much that I've been doing 00:07:56.019 --> 00:07:59.279 it for over 20 years. Well, stories are always 00:07:59.279 --> 00:08:02.180 about those moments and the intersection of moments. 00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:05.120 So it's not surprising that you come out of the 00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:07.720 teaching world, but you were also raised in the 00:08:07.720 --> 00:08:10.439 selling world and to have those come together. 00:08:10.459 --> 00:08:13.000 I mean, really a podcast, a good podcast like 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:15.759 yours here is nothing more than a teaching and 00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:18.819 instructional tool because people show up. to 00:08:18.819 --> 00:08:22.160 learn what can I do better? How can I get myself 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:25.980 out of this problem? You know, we're not Seinfeld 00:08:25.980 --> 00:08:28.720 here just entertaining people. You've got to 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:30.879 bring the teaching expertise. And so you've got 00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:35.559 decades of that and in sales. Take us back to 00:08:35.559 --> 00:08:39.679 a moment where it was really tough for you. Maybe 00:08:39.679 --> 00:08:43.159 you were selling it at Miller Hyman at the time, 00:08:43.179 --> 00:08:46.690 but you found yourself making a classic. sales 00:08:46.690 --> 00:08:48.730 mistake that you learned from that we could all 00:08:48.730 --> 00:08:52.190 learn from? Well, I have made many. And anybody 00:08:52.190 --> 00:08:54.610 who's been selling for any period of time has 00:08:54.610 --> 00:08:58.629 made many, many mistakes. But I've had to fix 00:08:58.629 --> 00:09:04.049 quite a few problems with clients and had some 00:09:04.049 --> 00:09:06.769 interesting things happen. Like one time when 00:09:06.769 --> 00:09:10.669 I was working with a company who sold textbooks, 00:09:10.850 --> 00:09:13.789 a rather large company that everyone would recognize. 00:09:15.059 --> 00:09:17.320 My dad thought it would be a great idea for me 00:09:17.320 --> 00:09:19.679 to work with that company because I had a background 00:09:19.679 --> 00:09:22.480 in education. So I knew about textbooks. I had 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:24.940 been on the other side of textbooks adoptions 00:09:24.940 --> 00:09:29.200 and so seemed like a good idea. Well, I flew 00:09:29.200 --> 00:09:33.259 out to this conference for textbooks where all 00:09:33.259 --> 00:09:35.480 the leaders of this company, including the CEO, 00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:39.700 were gathering and just little old me and I was, 00:09:39.700 --> 00:09:43.639 you know, in my 30s maybe. And just had started, 00:09:43.659 --> 00:09:46.720 you know, really selling and met with all these 00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:50.240 people. I had prepared for days. Thought I had 00:09:50.240 --> 00:09:52.320 a great conversation with them. Didn't talk too 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:55.860 much. Followed my call plan. Did everything just 00:09:55.860 --> 00:10:01.899 right. And I got back to the office and my stepmom, 00:10:01.940 --> 00:10:03.820 Diane, called me into her office and she said, 00:10:03.980 --> 00:10:07.559 they don't want to work with you. And I was like, 00:10:07.620 --> 00:10:11.080 what? They loved me. How is that possible, right? 00:10:11.850 --> 00:10:15.009 Uh, well they didn't, they did want Miller Heim 00:10:15.009 --> 00:10:16.389 and they did want the program. They just didn't 00:10:16.389 --> 00:10:18.669 want to work with me. Of course I was crushed, 00:10:18.929 --> 00:10:23.090 totally crushed park and, uh, couldn't figure 00:10:23.090 --> 00:10:26.500 out what had happened, but obviously I. did not 00:10:26.500 --> 00:10:29.379 present myself well to the CEO and a couple of 00:10:29.379 --> 00:10:31.500 the others, even though they were very nice to 00:10:31.500 --> 00:10:36.500 me. So I did not close that deal. They gave it 00:10:36.500 --> 00:10:39.940 to someone else to close and they got the commission 00:10:39.940 --> 00:10:44.139 too. In hindsight, at that time, did you go back 00:10:44.139 --> 00:10:46.259 thinking, well, I came out of there believing 00:10:46.259 --> 00:10:49.159 they loved me, but they didn't. Do you remember 00:10:49.159 --> 00:10:52.919 what happened in that session that went sideways? 00:10:53.740 --> 00:10:57.639 I just think that I was young and naive and these 00:10:57.639 --> 00:11:01.480 people were, you know, older than me and a lot 00:11:01.480 --> 00:11:05.840 wiser. And I was just doing what I had planned 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:08.100 to do probably and not really paying attention, 00:11:08.200 --> 00:11:11.059 even though I was listening. I probably wasn't 00:11:11.059 --> 00:11:14.820 really reading the room very well. So I really 00:11:14.820 --> 00:11:17.639 don't know. I did call, actually, the person 00:11:17.639 --> 00:11:20.519 who I had the best relationship with and asked 00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:23.559 her what happened. And she said, you know, just 00:11:23.559 --> 00:11:26.220 the CEO and some of the other senior people. 00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:30.960 didn't feel like I would really be a good fit 00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:34.159 for the people I would be training. And she was 00:11:34.159 --> 00:11:36.539 trying to be nice, of course. I don't know. They 00:11:36.539 --> 00:11:38.659 probably just didn't like me. And, you know, 00:11:38.679 --> 00:11:40.899 I got over it, but I was crushed for months. 00:11:41.820 --> 00:11:45.139 So, yeah, I mean, that's just one small one. 00:11:45.279 --> 00:11:48.379 But, you know, I've had several accounts that 00:11:48.379 --> 00:11:51.720 I had to save a big beverage company, again, 00:11:51.779 --> 00:11:54.879 that everyone would recognize, you know, a global 00:11:54.879 --> 00:11:59.039 beverage company where I had Some really bad 00:11:59.039 --> 00:12:01.419 problems that were left over from the previous 00:12:01.419 --> 00:12:06.059 sales rep and had to walk into the CEO's office. 00:12:06.179 --> 00:12:09.159 I had never, you know, hadn't had much experience 00:12:09.159 --> 00:12:11.879 at that point with CEOs of multi -billion dollar 00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:14.799 companies. I was shaking like a leaf, you know, 00:12:14.820 --> 00:12:17.940 you know, again, I was all of maybe. 33 years 00:12:17.940 --> 00:12:20.779 old or something like that. And I managed to 00:12:20.779 --> 00:12:22.740 pull it off, but there were some moments where 00:12:22.740 --> 00:12:24.759 I was like, oh my God. I mean, people talk about 00:12:24.759 --> 00:12:27.860 imposter syndrome these days. I didn't even know 00:12:27.860 --> 00:12:29.559 what that was back then, but I certainly had 00:12:29.559 --> 00:12:32.039 it. You know, it was like, how can I talk to 00:12:32.039 --> 00:12:35.879 a CEO? Oh my gosh. But I did it, you know, and 00:12:35.879 --> 00:12:37.659 I was very successful in my career with Miller 00:12:37.659 --> 00:12:40.500 Hyman. And then, you know, when I left and it 00:12:40.500 --> 00:12:42.860 was the dot com time and I started working with 00:12:42.860 --> 00:12:45.080 CEOs of these startups and helping them start 00:12:45.080 --> 00:12:48.299 companies from scratch. And it just really went 00:12:48.299 --> 00:12:50.500 well, even though I had no idea what I was doing. 00:12:50.559 --> 00:12:52.740 I was just making it up as I went along. But 00:12:52.740 --> 00:12:54.919 what I learned over those years was how to start 00:12:54.919 --> 00:12:57.840 a sales team from scratch and how to do it well. 00:12:57.980 --> 00:13:00.240 Right. And then that morphed into me working 00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:04.169 with more mature companies, which I do now. And 00:13:04.169 --> 00:13:06.490 it's just been such a fun ride. And working with 00:13:06.490 --> 00:13:10.190 CEOs is just such a pleasure, especially those 00:13:10.190 --> 00:13:13.269 who are really innovative and progressive. And 00:13:13.269 --> 00:13:15.830 they really want sales at their organization 00:13:15.830 --> 00:13:18.730 to be great. They really want to serve their 00:13:18.730 --> 00:13:21.679 customers. And they really want to support. Everyone 00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:24.700 who supports the customer. You know, when I was 00:13:24.700 --> 00:13:28.000 a CEO, founder of my ad agency, Park & Co., which 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:32.220 I ran in Phoenix for 20 years, I was in complete 00:13:32.220 --> 00:13:35.519 la -la land, believing that our work alone would 00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:38.320 sell itself and we would get referral and whatever. 00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:40.740 And it did. I mean, we were successful for that 00:13:40.740 --> 00:13:43.580 first 10 years and we grew very quickly. We were 00:13:43.580 --> 00:13:47.100 kind of the new kids on the block and the work 00:13:47.100 --> 00:13:50.629 was just coming in. But once it was interesting, 00:13:50.809 --> 00:13:54.149 Alice, that we got settled as one of the agencies 00:13:54.149 --> 00:13:56.990 in Phoenix, all of a sudden the competition ramped 00:13:56.990 --> 00:14:00.429 up. And I didn't ramp up as a sales guy. I thought, 00:14:00.509 --> 00:14:02.509 well, you know, it's worked the first 10 years. 00:14:02.529 --> 00:14:05.070 It's going to work the second 10 years. And it 00:14:05.070 --> 00:14:08.889 was a major mistake on my part. I did hire a 00:14:08.889 --> 00:14:11.529 sales guy, brought him in. He lasted for about 00:14:11.529 --> 00:14:15.289 six months. Nothing came of that. And I, until 00:14:15.289 --> 00:14:18.899 I met you, would blame him. You know, why can't 00:14:18.899 --> 00:14:21.600 he bring in sales? And then I realized it wasn't 00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:26.179 him. It was me. I did not have a program for 00:14:26.179 --> 00:14:29.120 him to follow. Or did I understand the program 00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:32.200 he brought in thinking he was the sales pro and 00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:34.519 how it was going to work for us? And it didn't 00:14:34.519 --> 00:14:37.460 work for us. Again, not his fault. Is this something 00:14:37.460 --> 00:14:40.100 that you see a lot with founders and CEOs of 00:14:40.100 --> 00:14:43.700 companies of all sizes that we get so embroiled 00:14:43.700 --> 00:14:46.559 in the day -to -day operations, we think sales 00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:50.080 is someone else's job? Yeah, you are a perfect 00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:53.899 example, Park, of the CEOs that I work with. 00:14:53.980 --> 00:14:58.279 It usually is 10 or sometimes even 20 years in 00:14:58.279 --> 00:15:01.740 where they hit this plateau and they're just 00:15:01.740 --> 00:15:04.700 not growing. And it is oftentimes, like you said, 00:15:04.759 --> 00:15:08.580 because whatever they produce sold itself to 00:15:08.580 --> 00:15:10.799 some degree, right? Enough to really keep the 00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:16.179 company growing for a while. But it just... plateaus 00:15:16.179 --> 00:15:19.059 at some point. And then how do you get past that? 00:15:19.139 --> 00:15:21.840 And a lot of it can be because the CEO doesn't 00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:24.899 understand sales, maybe hired on some salespeople. 00:15:24.980 --> 00:15:28.039 I had one CEO, the company was, gosh, at least 00:15:28.039 --> 00:15:29.700 20 years old when I started working with them. 00:15:29.779 --> 00:15:33.100 They did want to exit. And so they were, you 00:15:33.100 --> 00:15:35.259 know, wanting to increase their sales to a certain 00:15:35.259 --> 00:15:37.779 point so that they could get, you know, of course, 00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:41.159 a better valuation and have a higher exit value. 00:15:41.620 --> 00:15:45.279 And the CEO said to me, Well, I've had three 00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:49.159 VPs of sales in here in three years and they 00:15:49.159 --> 00:15:52.840 were all terrible, terrible, you know, couldn't 00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:56.440 do their job, you know? And so I said, oh gosh, 00:15:56.620 --> 00:15:58.500 you know, tell me some more about that. We talked 00:15:58.500 --> 00:15:59.860 through it, we talked through it. And she looked 00:15:59.860 --> 00:16:03.620 at me and she goes, oh, it wasn't them. I get 00:16:03.620 --> 00:16:07.200 it now. It was me. Just like you said, Park, 00:16:07.419 --> 00:16:09.580 you didn't really have a system in place. You 00:16:09.580 --> 00:16:13.440 didn't have the vision for sales or the... strategy 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:16.000 for sales. You expected them to bring that into 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:19.259 your company. Now, Alice, I didn't want to do 00:16:19.259 --> 00:16:22.100 sales. I wanted to do advertising and marketing 00:16:22.100 --> 00:16:24.299 and creative work. It'd be so good that people 00:16:24.299 --> 00:16:26.639 would just naturally be drawn to us. And it just 00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:30.460 didn't work because what it did is it drew all 00:16:30.460 --> 00:16:33.399 of the big agency competitors in because we now 00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:35.480 have their attention and they're like, who's 00:16:35.480 --> 00:16:38.039 this upstart? We're going to go after their business 00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:40.639 and knock them off. And so I'm curious too, how 00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:43.059 many CEOs do you run into? into that are just 00:16:43.059 --> 00:16:45.960 like, I don't want to do these sales. I don't 00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:49.409 want to sell my thing. A lot of them, and they 00:16:49.409 --> 00:16:51.230 shouldn't be selling, especially if their company's 00:16:51.230 --> 00:16:53.350 10 years old and they have a sales team, right? 00:16:53.450 --> 00:16:55.750 Now, at the beginning, CEOs sell because when 00:16:55.750 --> 00:16:57.370 you're the founder and you start a company, you 00:16:57.370 --> 00:16:59.590 sell. That's what you do. That's part of it, 00:16:59.629 --> 00:17:03.110 although they don't want to necessarily. And 00:17:03.110 --> 00:17:06.170 many CEOs that I work with have zero sales experience 00:17:06.170 --> 00:17:07.970 other than selling at their own company when 00:17:07.970 --> 00:17:10.589 they founded it. So 10 years in, 20 years in, 00:17:10.650 --> 00:17:13.950 now they've built this sales organization. And 00:17:13.950 --> 00:17:16.329 some of it's really humming along and working 00:17:16.329 --> 00:17:19.230 and some of it's not. Or they've hit this plateau 00:17:19.230 --> 00:17:22.049 again. And yeah, they don't want to be the one 00:17:22.049 --> 00:17:24.329 to sell. And at that point, they shouldn't be 00:17:24.329 --> 00:17:26.750 the one to sell. But they absolutely should be 00:17:26.750 --> 00:17:30.309 setting the strategy, setting that vision, making 00:17:30.309 --> 00:17:32.730 sure that the sales, marketing, and customer 00:17:32.730 --> 00:17:36.170 success are working together in harmony to support 00:17:36.170 --> 00:17:39.549 that customer and providing the budget that's 00:17:39.549 --> 00:17:43.289 needed to do a great job. And really providing 00:17:43.289 --> 00:17:46.920 that support and the encouragement. A lot of 00:17:46.920 --> 00:17:48.839 times the CEOs think, well, what do they need 00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:51.460 me to say, oh, good job for? Well, are you kidding 00:17:51.460 --> 00:17:54.339 me? They're selling for your company. Of course 00:17:54.339 --> 00:17:56.240 you should say good job when they close a big 00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:59.099 deal. It's super important and it matters to 00:17:59.099 --> 00:18:02.440 the salespeople. So I think that the CEO's role, 00:18:02.579 --> 00:18:05.940 again, changes through the life cycle of the 00:18:05.940 --> 00:18:09.039 company. But at the point where you're 20 years 00:18:09.039 --> 00:18:12.380 old and the company's 20 years old, you've got 00:18:12.380 --> 00:18:16.009 a plateau and you've got to change things. That 00:18:16.009 --> 00:18:18.630 can only come from the most senior level in an 00:18:18.630 --> 00:18:21.069 organization. That can't come from the sales 00:18:21.069 --> 00:18:24.130 organization or just be the marketing's fault 00:18:24.130 --> 00:18:26.490 or marketing's problem or it's customer success. 00:18:26.569 --> 00:18:30.589 No, it's all of you and you all report into the 00:18:30.589 --> 00:18:34.170 CEO and the CEO needs to make adjustments in 00:18:34.170 --> 00:18:36.450 that organizational structure and how people 00:18:36.450 --> 00:18:39.589 work together and the tools and the support mechanisms 00:18:39.589 --> 00:18:44.380 to make things really work. So in your line of 00:18:44.380 --> 00:18:46.519 work, Alice, I would imagine in your discovery 00:18:46.519 --> 00:18:49.579 process, you have to go in and understand probably, 00:18:49.640 --> 00:18:52.279 well, a lot of things, but in my mind, two major 00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:54.940 things. Where is the company right now? What 00:18:54.940 --> 00:18:58.960 is its opportunity for growth? And it sounds 00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:00.940 like all the customers you work with have this 00:19:00.940 --> 00:19:03.140 tremendous opportunity for growth. They're not 00:19:03.140 --> 00:19:04.599 living into it because they don't have their 00:19:04.599 --> 00:19:07.000 sales strategy together. So that's probably the 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:08.940 first thing. Where's the company? But then you 00:19:08.940 --> 00:19:11.400 probably have to really understand what the mindset 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:14.759 is of the CEO. and where they are on their own 00:19:14.759 --> 00:19:18.440 career trajectory as founder, business owner, 00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:21.819 and marry those two together so that you can 00:19:21.819 --> 00:19:23.599 coach them and provide the strategies that are 00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:25.779 going to work quickly, as quickly as possible 00:19:25.779 --> 00:19:29.700 for them. That is absolutely right. So I've got 00:19:29.700 --> 00:19:32.119 to see where they are and where they want to 00:19:32.119 --> 00:19:35.220 go. And then I need to understand the CEO's mindset. 00:19:35.480 --> 00:19:38.259 And from there, I can help them build the strategy 00:19:38.259 --> 00:19:40.900 that they need and then build the sales organization 00:19:40.900 --> 00:19:44.130 that they need to support the customers that 00:19:44.130 --> 00:19:47.269 they want to bring in, right? And keep the company 00:19:47.269 --> 00:19:49.829 growing at the pace they want it to grow. Many 00:19:49.829 --> 00:19:52.109 of these CEOs have brought in private equity 00:19:52.109 --> 00:19:55.970 or they were already private equity backed, but 00:19:55.970 --> 00:19:58.250 they wanted to maybe launch a new product or 00:19:58.250 --> 00:20:00.630 change some things. So they either took some 00:20:00.630 --> 00:20:03.750 debt or equity and now they have even more pressure 00:20:03.750 --> 00:20:07.180 on them. perform, but also they may want to exit, 00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:09.339 especially when you're starting to see companies 00:20:09.339 --> 00:20:12.259 that are 20 and 30 years old. The owner -founder 00:20:12.259 --> 00:20:14.720 may be ready to exit, pass it down to their kids, 00:20:14.900 --> 00:20:18.559 sell to another firm, be acquired, or they may 00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:21.259 be trying to do acquisitions. and make themselves 00:20:21.259 --> 00:20:24.039 bigger. So there's all these different things 00:20:24.039 --> 00:20:28.000 that CEOs want to do, and sales directly impacts 00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:31.880 their ability to do all of those things. And 00:20:31.880 --> 00:20:35.519 you know, as a CEO, Park, what do you really 00:20:35.519 --> 00:20:38.079 want? You want the freedom. You want the choice. 00:20:38.299 --> 00:20:41.940 You want... to do what you want to do, right? 00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:45.619 And so in order to do that, sales have to be 00:20:45.619 --> 00:20:48.420 up. So your valuation is high and then you have 00:20:48.420 --> 00:20:53.559 many, many choices. So let me ask you, how often 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:58.880 do you get pushback from CEOs of saying, Alice, 00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:02.200 that's not my job. That's my chief revenue officer's 00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:04.960 job. That's my head of sales job. Why are you 00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:07.680 pestering me with this? Well, most of the CEOs 00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:11.170 that I work with, have got some idea that it 00:21:11.170 --> 00:21:15.029 is their responsibility, their role. That's why 00:21:15.029 --> 00:21:16.630 they've come to me, right? They're like, I know 00:21:16.630 --> 00:21:19.230 I need to play a role in this. I'm not sure exactly 00:21:19.230 --> 00:21:22.369 what it is or how to make it happen. But I do 00:21:22.369 --> 00:21:24.809 hear them saying things like, well, isn't that 00:21:24.809 --> 00:21:27.170 what marketing is supposed to do? Or isn't that 00:21:27.170 --> 00:21:29.450 what sales is supposed to do? Yes, it is. But 00:21:29.450 --> 00:21:32.089 the question is, are you enabling them to do 00:21:32.089 --> 00:21:34.650 it, right? So if you look at the revenue operations 00:21:34.650 --> 00:21:38.089 of your company, and again, back to sales, marketing, 00:21:38.170 --> 00:21:40.390 and customer success, all of those who support 00:21:40.390 --> 00:21:42.950 the company, and you could even wrap operations 00:21:42.950 --> 00:21:45.309 and production into that too, because they're 00:21:45.309 --> 00:21:47.750 producing the goods and getting them out to the 00:21:47.750 --> 00:21:51.769 customer or providing the services. So the whole 00:21:51.769 --> 00:21:54.750 organization has to work together really well 00:21:54.750 --> 00:21:58.750 to support the customer. You as the CEO don't 00:21:58.750 --> 00:22:02.470 recognize your role. You do maybe think that 00:22:02.470 --> 00:22:05.779 it is someone else's responsibility. Once you've 00:22:05.779 --> 00:22:07.819 set that strategy and that vision and you've 00:22:07.819 --> 00:22:10.619 given everybody what they need, it is their responsibility 00:22:10.619 --> 00:22:13.539 and you do need to hold them accountable. That's 00:22:13.539 --> 00:22:16.000 a big problem I see today is there are sales 00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:19.319 teams doing all kinds of things. The CEO doesn't 00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:22.400 really know what they're doing and they're not 00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:25.619 being held accountable. And so they're not hitting 00:22:25.619 --> 00:22:29.069 the numbers that they're expected to hit. the 00:22:29.069 --> 00:22:30.769 number may be a whole nother problem because 00:22:30.769 --> 00:22:33.849 it maybe was pulled out of thin air. And that's 00:22:33.849 --> 00:22:36.309 again, because the CEO didn't really know how 00:22:36.309 --> 00:22:39.869 to set the strategy and the investors were putting 00:22:39.869 --> 00:22:42.930 a lot of pressure on them. So we can have realistic 00:22:42.930 --> 00:22:46.950 numbers that our teams can hit, right? But we 00:22:46.950 --> 00:22:50.470 do have to have that vision and that strategy 00:22:50.470 --> 00:22:53.410 in place and all of these departments working 00:22:53.410 --> 00:22:55.450 together. And again, that's why when I talk sales, 00:22:55.829 --> 00:23:00.390 I'm talking to the CEO because Only the CEO can 00:23:00.390 --> 00:23:03.210 make the kinds of decisions that need to be made, 00:23:03.269 --> 00:23:06.769 can set the strategy, can have the vision. Only 00:23:06.769 --> 00:23:09.230 a CEO can do that. A sales leader can't do that. 00:23:09.369 --> 00:23:11.869 They have to look up to their leadership team 00:23:11.869 --> 00:23:15.569 to provide that to them. And they cannot, on 00:23:15.569 --> 00:23:17.650 their own, make the changes that are needed in 00:23:17.650 --> 00:23:21.329 today's market to really help their company have 00:23:21.329 --> 00:23:23.630 the growth that is needed. It has to be done 00:23:23.630 --> 00:23:26.480 at the senior level, and it has to be... an effort 00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:28.660 between all departments that serve the customer. 00:23:28.940 --> 00:23:32.200 And Alice, is that why you have really separated 00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:35.740 yourself from the sales coaches and strategists 00:23:35.740 --> 00:23:38.039 in the world who primarily work with the chief 00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:40.779 revenue officers or the head of sales? And you 00:23:40.779 --> 00:23:45.119 are really specifically about that CEO and founder 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:47.519 because you feel like that's where you're going 00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:50.079 to have the biggest impact. 100 % because if 00:23:50.079 --> 00:23:52.420 I... work just with the sales leader, which I 00:23:52.420 --> 00:23:54.839 have done in the past. They start telling you 00:23:54.839 --> 00:23:56.940 how marketing doesn't do this and customer success 00:23:56.940 --> 00:23:59.700 doesn't do that and all the problems that they're 00:23:59.700 --> 00:24:02.940 having. And the CEO won't let them do this or 00:24:02.940 --> 00:24:05.779 won't give them a budget for that. So now we're 00:24:05.779 --> 00:24:09.400 stuck. We're stuck in this place where, okay, 00:24:09.579 --> 00:24:11.859 well, what can I do about their marketing team 00:24:11.859 --> 00:24:14.339 or their customer success team? I can do nothing, 00:24:14.359 --> 00:24:16.880 so I can't fix those problems. I can help them 00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:20.480 level up their sellers. I can help them with 00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:22.920 the sales organization that reports to them. 00:24:22.980 --> 00:24:26.299 I can do some things, but it won't be a significant 00:24:26.299 --> 00:24:31.839 enough change unless the CEO can support all 00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:34.250 of those changes that we need. and get these 00:24:34.250 --> 00:24:37.730 teams to work together in concert to really support 00:24:37.730 --> 00:24:40.730 the customer. So we can only go so far if we 00:24:40.730 --> 00:24:44.829 don't have the CEO 100 % behind us and supporting 00:24:44.829 --> 00:24:48.559 us in the way that we need them to. In planning 00:24:48.559 --> 00:24:50.740 of your show here, I know you've done a whole 00:24:50.740 --> 00:24:53.539 lot of research on the different podcasts that 00:24:53.539 --> 00:24:55.759 are available out there in sales, and you found 00:24:55.759 --> 00:25:00.420 that really no one show speaks directly to the 00:25:00.420 --> 00:25:03.680 CEO and what they can do. Was that the impetus 00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:05.519 behind this? Because you've got a lot on your 00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:07.619 plate already, and you're already very busy. 00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:12.460 Why did you take on now the onerous, and I know 00:25:12.460 --> 00:25:15.680 after doing them for six years, effort of putting 00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:19.420 together this marvelous show? Yeah, there are 00:25:19.420 --> 00:25:23.720 tons of fabulous sales podcasts out there. I 00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:26.460 listen to them. A lot of my friends are the hosts. 00:25:26.619 --> 00:25:30.259 I love them. But they don't speak specifically 00:25:30.259 --> 00:25:34.319 to the CEO about sales and what they can do to 00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:38.109 really... improve the whole revenue operations 00:25:38.109 --> 00:25:41.450 of their company. They're not really talking 00:25:41.450 --> 00:25:44.630 to the leader of the company about the future 00:25:44.630 --> 00:25:47.390 of sales and the changes that are coming that 00:25:47.390 --> 00:25:50.490 the CEO is going to need to adjust to. They're 00:25:50.490 --> 00:25:54.150 addressing a lot of important issues around sales, 00:25:54.349 --> 00:25:58.410 but not specifically what the CEO should be doing 00:25:58.410 --> 00:26:02.369 to support. So they get the growth they need 00:26:02.369 --> 00:26:04.809 and their company gets the valuation it needs. 00:26:04.950 --> 00:26:08.890 And then back to having many, many choices. And 00:26:08.890 --> 00:26:13.430 who will be appearing on your show? CEOs. So 00:26:13.430 --> 00:26:16.829 I have CEOs and founders, CEOs and founders. 00:26:17.150 --> 00:26:20.990 Most of the guests that are coming are CEOs of 00:26:20.990 --> 00:26:24.250 more mature companies. Their revenues are usually 00:26:24.250 --> 00:26:27.430 10 million plus. A lot of them started their 00:26:27.430 --> 00:26:29.609 companies, so they were founders before they 00:26:29.609 --> 00:26:34.349 were CEOs. And they have built their sales organization 00:26:34.349 --> 00:26:38.190 to what it is today and have had some challenges 00:26:38.190 --> 00:26:40.230 and some successes that they're going to share. 00:26:40.910 --> 00:26:43.009 And we're also going to talk about the future 00:26:43.009 --> 00:26:45.809 and what they see in the future of what they're 00:26:45.809 --> 00:26:47.170 going to need to do and how they're going to 00:26:47.170 --> 00:26:50.329 need to change to keep up the pace that they 00:26:50.329 --> 00:26:52.670 want for their growth and get their valuation 00:26:52.670 --> 00:26:56.759 where they'd like it to be. Now, with every CEO, 00:26:57.160 --> 00:27:00.160 they have successes, but we all have tremendous 00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:02.400 failures. Are you going to be able to pull some 00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:04.539 of those out of them? Because I found that that's 00:27:04.539 --> 00:27:06.759 really where the juice is. People want to know 00:27:06.759 --> 00:27:10.599 where their misstep was, how your listeners, 00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:13.339 viewers can avoid that, and more importantly, 00:27:13.460 --> 00:27:15.799 what are the steps that can be taken to either 00:27:15.799 --> 00:27:18.519 both avoid it and or get yourself out of it as 00:27:18.519 --> 00:27:20.579 quickly as possible. Are you going to be sharing 00:27:20.579 --> 00:27:22.920 a lot of your advice on these episodes? Well, 00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:26.119 I want CEOs to learn from CEOs, right? So they're 00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:28.420 going to be sharing a lot of, like I said, the 00:27:28.420 --> 00:27:29.660 good, the bad, and the ugly, because that's how 00:27:29.660 --> 00:27:31.619 we learn. And we learn from those failures, and 00:27:31.619 --> 00:27:34.000 they learn from their failures. So we want to 00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:38.839 all hear about that, of course. It will be a 00:27:38.839 --> 00:27:41.819 lot of fun, I think, talking with these CEOs 00:27:41.819 --> 00:27:43.880 to also be able to give them a little bit of 00:27:43.880 --> 00:27:47.200 coaching on what they could have done possibly 00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:50.740 or what they can do next. And I know that these 00:27:50.740 --> 00:27:53.480 CEOs will be open to that because they all really 00:27:53.480 --> 00:27:56.759 want to grow and they really want to support 00:27:56.759 --> 00:28:01.700 sales at their company. So what are like the 00:28:01.700 --> 00:28:06.880 top three things that you often encounter? with 00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:10.099 a CEO that is standing in their way, that is 00:28:10.099 --> 00:28:13.460 an obstacle to their success that we can share 00:28:13.460 --> 00:28:16.119 right now so any viewer listening out there can 00:28:16.119 --> 00:28:18.779 go, yep, I'm one, two, or all three of those. 00:28:19.319 --> 00:28:22.160 Yeah, I think the very first and probably most 00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:26.119 important thing is the mindset. The CEO's mindset 00:28:26.119 --> 00:28:29.680 around sales really matters. If they think that 00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:31.819 it's something they don't want to be involved 00:28:31.819 --> 00:28:33.940 with, they don't want to do, they don't really 00:28:33.940 --> 00:28:38.319 like sales, That's a tough one because that bleeds 00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:40.660 through into everything that they do, right? 00:28:40.859 --> 00:28:43.119 And it bleeds through to how they feel about 00:28:43.119 --> 00:28:45.980 sales, their sales team, and what their sales 00:28:45.980 --> 00:28:49.859 team does. And so I think that mindset is really 00:28:49.859 --> 00:28:53.180 important. We need to get their mindset around 00:28:53.180 --> 00:28:56.900 sales to be a positive one and have them be able 00:28:56.900 --> 00:28:59.880 to communicate that positive mindset. So I think 00:28:59.880 --> 00:29:03.640 that is something that I see a lot and we have 00:29:03.640 --> 00:29:06.519 to work with that. So that's probably the first 00:29:06.519 --> 00:29:10.140 thing. I think the second thing is that many 00:29:10.140 --> 00:29:14.000 CEOs don't really know what modern selling is. 00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:18.180 They don't really know how modern buyers want 00:29:18.180 --> 00:29:21.839 to buy. Really, it's not their job to know that. 00:29:21.940 --> 00:29:25.700 That's what their marketing and sales team should 00:29:25.700 --> 00:29:27.339 bring to them. You know, the leaders of those 00:29:27.339 --> 00:29:29.640 teams should bring to them what is modern selling 00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:32.759 today and how does it work and how is the customer 00:29:32.759 --> 00:29:37.660 buying? Many CEOs have an idea of how they did 00:29:37.660 --> 00:29:39.619 sales if they ever did sales before they started 00:29:39.619 --> 00:29:42.599 their company. Maybe that was 20, 30 years ago. 00:29:43.480 --> 00:29:45.779 Those things that they did then that worked beautifully 00:29:45.779 --> 00:29:48.740 don't work anymore. So they might be asking their 00:29:48.740 --> 00:29:51.480 sales team to do the wrong activities. And they 00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:53.539 might be putting pressure on their sales team 00:29:53.539 --> 00:29:57.339 to do the wrong types of behaviors because that's 00:29:57.339 --> 00:30:00.859 what worked when they were selling or in the 00:30:00.859 --> 00:30:03.319 early days of their company, these things did 00:30:03.319 --> 00:30:06.559 work. But they don't work anymore. So we have 00:30:06.559 --> 00:30:11.039 to help the CEOs understand what modern sellers 00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:14.430 should be doing. and what modern buyers respond 00:30:14.430 --> 00:30:16.670 to. So it's really about customer engagement. 00:30:16.829 --> 00:30:19.450 So that's the second thing. Get them to understand 00:30:19.450 --> 00:30:22.490 what customer engagement looks like today so 00:30:22.490 --> 00:30:25.569 they can support their team in doing it. And 00:30:25.569 --> 00:30:28.190 then I'd probably say the third thing is really 00:30:28.190 --> 00:30:31.150 helping them understand if they have the right 00:30:31.150 --> 00:30:34.750 people in place, right? So to grow this organization 00:30:34.750 --> 00:30:37.480 to where you want to grow it. Did you hire the 00:30:37.480 --> 00:30:41.019 right people? Do you have the right people? Have 00:30:41.019 --> 00:30:43.480 you had some sales leaders with you for 20 years 00:30:43.480 --> 00:30:46.380 who just can't move the direction you're moving? 00:30:46.519 --> 00:30:50.500 I have this with a company that sold into hospitals, 00:30:50.619 --> 00:30:53.220 some very expensive software into hospitals. 00:30:53.539 --> 00:30:57.019 And the CEO had been in sales in the early days 00:30:57.019 --> 00:31:00.220 and had been very successful. And they were at 00:31:00.220 --> 00:31:03.319 a plateau and they really needed to move forward. 00:31:03.339 --> 00:31:06.109 And he knew that. But he couldn't quite put his 00:31:06.109 --> 00:31:09.650 finger on what it was. And so after I worked 00:31:09.650 --> 00:31:11.750 with him for a while, I understood his mindset 00:31:11.750 --> 00:31:14.430 and it was good. And he did know what needed 00:31:14.430 --> 00:31:17.690 to happen and what was modern selling. But the 00:31:17.690 --> 00:31:20.029 two sales leaders that he had in place had been 00:31:20.029 --> 00:31:23.970 there a long, long time. And even though the 00:31:23.970 --> 00:31:27.910 CEO had set a vision. for the future and set 00:31:27.910 --> 00:31:31.170 a new strategy. They just couldn't come forward 00:31:31.170 --> 00:31:34.390 into that. And we did end up having to let one 00:31:34.390 --> 00:31:36.529 of them go off to a new adventure, you know, 00:31:36.549 --> 00:31:39.250 very gracefully, always part ways gracefully. 00:31:39.349 --> 00:31:41.309 And then the other one, we moved into a different 00:31:41.309 --> 00:31:44.930 position to manage really large accounts. And 00:31:44.930 --> 00:31:48.089 we brought in a new CRO who really understood. 00:31:49.099 --> 00:31:51.640 what the future of sales was all about. And it 00:31:51.640 --> 00:31:54.079 made a huge difference, but we just were stuck. 00:31:54.319 --> 00:31:57.640 I had done all kinds of things to try to make 00:31:57.640 --> 00:31:59.859 it work. And I came back to that CEO and I said, 00:31:59.960 --> 00:32:02.259 it's not going to work because these leaders 00:32:02.259 --> 00:32:05.380 won't allow it. They are stuck in their ways 00:32:05.380 --> 00:32:07.839 of 20 years ago and they're not going to change. 00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:10.420 So this is a really hard decision because the 00:32:10.420 --> 00:32:13.559 CEO had been with these people for a long time 00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:15.599 and they were friends. He didn't want to let 00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:19.049 them go, right? But he had to make these changes 00:32:19.049 --> 00:32:21.630 or his company would have stayed right where 00:32:21.630 --> 00:32:24.130 it was. So sometimes CEOs have to make really 00:32:24.130 --> 00:32:28.369 hard decisions. But again, the sales team leader, 00:32:28.630 --> 00:32:31.329 the whole sales team couldn't fix that. It was 00:32:31.329 --> 00:32:34.829 broken and they weren't fixing it. The CEO had 00:32:34.829 --> 00:32:39.329 to fix it. So it comes down to the three M's 00:32:39.329 --> 00:32:43.089 of overcoming your sales problems. Fix your mindsets. 00:32:43.809 --> 00:32:46.089 Understand modern selling and surround yourself 00:32:46.089 --> 00:32:49.750 with magnificent salespeople. That's absolutely 00:32:49.750 --> 00:32:52.829 right. We've recorded this, right? So we better 00:32:52.829 --> 00:32:55.710 write that down. Did you record? Yeah, I think 00:32:55.710 --> 00:32:58.170 we're good. Yeah, yeah, I think we did. Oh, my 00:32:58.170 --> 00:33:01.289 gosh, yeah. This has just been amazing, Park. 00:33:01.450 --> 00:33:05.309 I so appreciate you getting this story out of 00:33:05.309 --> 00:33:08.750 me so that everyone can understand. what this 00:33:08.750 --> 00:33:11.069 podcast is going to be about and who it's going 00:33:11.069 --> 00:33:14.069 to be for. It is for CEOs, but of course, all 00:33:14.069 --> 00:33:17.650 sales leaders as CROs and CMOs, you should listen 00:33:17.650 --> 00:33:21.630 to because you can help your CEO. You can help 00:33:21.630 --> 00:33:24.390 them get to where they need to be. You can help 00:33:24.390 --> 00:33:29.509 them with their mindset, their modern selling. 00:33:32.709 --> 00:33:37.069 magnificent people so um oh my gosh that's just 00:33:37.069 --> 00:33:41.410 perfect absolutely park absolutely he and i was 00:33:41.410 --> 00:33:43.470 just noticing there all this time i've been talking 00:33:43.470 --> 00:33:45.789 to you it looks like you're in a prison cell 00:33:45.789 --> 00:33:48.609 what did they put your way for well come here 00:33:48.609 --> 00:33:50.549 you know i mean we've all been in the virtual 00:33:50.549 --> 00:33:53.630 world this is virtual and i kind of sum up like 00:33:53.630 --> 00:33:56.720 zoom as to being in a turkish prison and we're 00:33:56.720 --> 00:33:59.279 having a turkish prison visit here so i'm tapping 00:33:59.279 --> 00:34:02.140 on the glass saying alice get me out of here 00:34:02.140 --> 00:34:06.339 get me out no actually the truth is my wife michelle 00:34:06.339 --> 00:34:08.420 and i moved up to northern arizona we have a 00:34:08.420 --> 00:34:11.460 beautiful home on a lake but it's rural and what 00:34:11.460 --> 00:34:15.960 comes with rural living is horrible You just 00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:17.920 never know when you're going to get it. So our 00:34:17.920 --> 00:34:20.940 niece and her husband run this wonderful gym 00:34:20.940 --> 00:34:26.260 here in Flagstaff called Paragon Athletics, and 00:34:26.260 --> 00:34:29.699 they train elite runners and distance, you know, 00:34:29.699 --> 00:34:31.639 the crazy people. Oh, cool. They've got this 00:34:31.639 --> 00:34:34.340 beautiful little storage facility and great Wi 00:34:34.340 --> 00:34:38.019 -Fi that I'm hanging out with them today. You're 00:34:38.019 --> 00:34:40.380 in a storage room today. You're coming to us 00:34:40.380 --> 00:34:44.349 live from the storage room at the gym. In Flagstaff, 00:34:44.349 --> 00:34:46.989 Arizona. You know why? Because the show must 00:34:46.989 --> 00:34:50.010 go on. That's right. That is right, Park. And 00:34:50.010 --> 00:34:52.449 that's what I want CEOs to know. The show must 00:34:52.449 --> 00:34:55.630 go on. It is your job to make that show happen. 00:34:55.769 --> 00:34:59.090 And I am going to help you do it. So I am just 00:34:59.090 --> 00:35:02.389 so thrilled to be launching this podcast. Park, 00:35:02.469 --> 00:35:06.369 thank you so much. Do you have any last questions 00:35:06.369 --> 00:35:11.989 for me before we go? You know, no, I know one 00:35:11.989 --> 00:35:14.190 last question, but I just want to let you know 00:35:14.190 --> 00:35:16.750 that I've known of you and we've been friends 00:35:16.750 --> 00:35:19.530 virtually for several years, but I've distinct 00:35:19.530 --> 00:35:22.469 fortune of working with you last year, first 00:35:22.469 --> 00:35:25.010 working on your brand story, but then you coaching 00:35:25.010 --> 00:35:28.639 me on my sales. for the business of story. And 00:35:28.639 --> 00:35:30.760 I've been doing this work for a long time and 00:35:30.760 --> 00:35:33.639 I realized I didn't know what I didn't know about 00:35:33.639 --> 00:35:36.420 selling until I met you. And so I want to thank 00:35:36.420 --> 00:35:39.320 you for all the contributions and the instruction 00:35:39.320 --> 00:35:41.280 you've given me to help build out the business 00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:44.860 of story and just really appreciate being here 00:35:44.860 --> 00:35:47.139 with you to launch this fabulous new program. 00:35:47.630 --> 00:35:50.769 Thank you for that. Oh, my pleasure. It's a pleasure 00:35:50.769 --> 00:35:53.510 to help your company grow and help you as the 00:35:53.510 --> 00:35:59.030 CEO. And I am looking forward to all of the great 00:35:59.030 --> 00:36:02.429 information that the CEOs that I interview are 00:36:02.429 --> 00:36:05.769 going to share with all of the other CEOs out 00:36:05.769 --> 00:36:09.329 there. So, Park, thank you so much. And I know 00:36:09.329 --> 00:36:11.730 I'll be talking to you soon. Thanks, Alice. Bye. 00:36:16.010 --> 00:36:18.710 Thanks for tuning in to Sales Talk for CEOs. 00:36:19.289 --> 00:36:23.929 You can find me at alicehyman .com. Be sure and 00:36:23.929 --> 00:36:26.769 connect with me on LinkedIn and let me know that 00:36:26.769 --> 00:36:30.269 you heard the show. If you found value in today's 00:36:30.269 --> 00:36:33.630 episode, please subscribe, write a review, and 00:36:33.630 --> 00:36:36.210 share the show with another CEO.