WEBVTT

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hey folks mark here another edition of from the

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vault we've recently resurrected this feature

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and the last two episodes have been Christopher's

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picks so this week is one of my picks. The last

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one that he picked was about Godspeed You Black

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Emperor and in that intro he talks a little bit

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about how some of the things that were discussed

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in that episode particularly around the BDS movement

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he felt a bit unsure about since everything that's

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happened more recently in Israel and Palestine.

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It got me to reflect a little bit on how there's

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some episodes that we've done or maybe some artists

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that we've covered where the situation around

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them has maybe changed. sometimes quite significantly,

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since we first recorded an episode. And this

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episode is about the artist P .O .S. and his

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third album, Never Better. And I wanted to bring

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it back up because this has also kind of stuck

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in my craw a wee bit recently for reasons that

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I'm going to kind of go into. So about two years

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after we sat down to discuss this record, allegations

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came out about P .O .S., or Stefan Alexander

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as his given name, and they were by former partners,

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members of the Doom T Collective. Desa and Laserbeak

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as well as many other members were amongst those

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who spoke out at the time and what emerged was

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a picture of someone who cheated on partners

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emotionally manipulated them and basically gaslit

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people who trusted them. There was nothing sexual

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or physically abusive in the allegations but

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that doesn't make what he did any less serious.

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People were hurt and people he was close to were

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hurt. At the time, he put out an apology, and

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for what it's worth, I thought that read as sincere.

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He appeared to own what he'd done rather than

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try to deflect it or minimise it. He said at

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the end of his apology that he was going to step

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back from music for a while, which he'd done,

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and I think that was the right thing to do. In

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2014, however, he returned and has released two

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albums now with Dwino Rowland, and by all accounts,

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he seems to be back on good terms with the Doomtree

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Collective. In 2024, he released an album called

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Really. and in 2025 released an album called

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Really Really. The second one, Really Really,

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was released on Doomtree Records, which is probably

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a really good sign, you would say. One of the

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side projects he had with Laserbeak, Shredders,

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is active again, and I've even seen him being

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tagged by Dessa on Instagram lately around her

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new music too. I really can't speak to what happened

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behind the scenes because I'm really not in a

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position to do so, honestly, but the people who

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were closest to the situation, who knew what

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he did, and who were abhorred by it at the time,

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seem to have reached a place where they can move

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forward with him. I hope that means that he's

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done the work, and I hope that means that he's

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been able to make amends with the people that

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he's hurt, and that they've been given the space

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and the time that they needed to heal. But I

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want to be honest with you about something. I

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fundamentally believe in restorative justice.

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I know that people are capable of growth. I know

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that nobody's without fault, and I like to think

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that if I caused harm to the people in my life,

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that I'd be trusted to own it, to apologise properly,

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to give people room to heal, and to genuinely

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change. I believe all of that. And yet I find

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it really hard to listen to this music now and

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enjoy it the way that I used to. At the time

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we recorded this episode in 2018, POS was one

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of my favourite artists. Around about that same

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time, there was also some allegations came out

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about Jesse Lacey from Brand New. Brand New were

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another one of my favourite artists. A couple

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of years ago, we covered one of their records

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on this podcast and I said at the time that I

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struggled with listening to it because of the

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allegations against Jesse Lacey. Many of you

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will now know that brand new are back touring

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again and seem to be a going concern for Jesse

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and the rest of the bandmates a lot of people

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seem to have been able to make peace with him

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and his actions I hope the people around him

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and the people that were affected have also been

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able to move forward in meaningful ways a few

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times over the course of this podcast we've kind

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of spoken about how there's a little bit of like

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a sliding scale of I don't know bad behaviour

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should we say But I've never really been quite

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able to resolve it, regardless of what end of

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the scale a person sits on. Artists like Pantera

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and David Bowie and Marlon Manson have all done

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various different things to varying different

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degrees of awfulness, I would say. They're all

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artists that I loved, and music that I can't

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go back to the way that I once did. Because even

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if the nature of what they did varies enormously,

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I still find it quite difficult to get enjoyment

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out of listening to artists committed these transgressions.

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So for me I guess what I'm saying is it's quite

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a complex picture. On the one hand I'm holding

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in my head that I believe in restorative justice

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and that people can change but on the other hand

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I find it uncomfortable when I try to negotiate

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that with the artists that I love and my love

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for their music. I'm not telling you how to feel

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about any of this. We are not pulling this episode

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either. It's a document of a moment in time where

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three people genuinely connected and were genuinely

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enthused about a record that they loved. A record

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that two people, Chris and Dave, had never heard

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before. That's a real moment and it happened

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and I love that it happened because it turns

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out that it's a really good episode still. It

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encapsulates everything that this podcast does

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really well and it's actually quite shocking

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that it happened in the very early days of the

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podcast. I guess maybe we were onto something

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way back then. But I didn't want to put it out

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without giving you context about what's happened

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since in the life of POS and in the world generally

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around, you know, Me Too and cancel culture and

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so on and so forth. I thought I would do my honest

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take rather than just dropping it on you without

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a word. Anyway, this episode is episode number

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25 from June 2018, where we talk about POS's

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third album, Never Better. Enjoy. You're listening

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to the Unsung Podcast. I am your host, Mark Fraser,

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and I am joined by two members of Doomtree. To

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my right is... I can see his socks, and they're

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matching. It's Mr Chris Cusack. I don't know

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who's got sweatier socks. You do. I thought by

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wearing black socks it would hide the sweatiness

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on my feet. I'm afraid not. It just accentuates

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it. Even blacker. How much more black? None more

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black. Yeah, I'm sitting to David's right. And

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sitting to my left is David. Hi. And he's wearing

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a really quite snazzy little polka dot shirt

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today. Wait a minute. Hang on. His socks match

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his shirt. Holy cow. That is not meant. They

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really do. Like an identical pattern. And we

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were just remarking, he's looking rather svelte

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at the moment. Thanks. His new moustache and

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his trim. Oh, there we are. My falafel. It's

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another inch off the belt line. He's also missing

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a hair now. Oh yeah, had a hernia. He's actually

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physically lighter. Yeah, yeah. Physiologically

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lighter. Well, no, because they don't take anything

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out. They just like tie a knot. Oh, I wish I

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took it out. They just like, that's the noise

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that the surgeon made. So it was fine. I was

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asleep. So, you know, they knocked me out. I

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wasn't there. So I don't really remember it,

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but I woke up and I was fine. And then I've been

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fine. My friend got a circumcision at a remarkably

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late age and he was telling us at football the

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other day about it. And they put up a screen,

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but they keep you awake. They keep you awake.

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Oh, I wouldn't want that. He got the first jag,

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and they said to him, can you feel this? And

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he was like, yeah, I can feel it, I can feel

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it. And they were like, oh, yeah, well, you can

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feel it, but can you really? And he was like,

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I can feel it, I can feel it. Okay, we'll give

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you a second jag. They gave him a second jag.

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And then he was getting the operation, and the

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nurse was holding his hand. And it was one of

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these kind of, like, comforting, matronly, kind

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of older women that just always looks unfazed

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and stuff. He's like looking up at her and she's

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going, oh, you're doing well, son. You're doing

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well. It's going fine. It's going fine. Then

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she kind of, you could tell that she was like

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peeking over the top to look down at it. Then

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she got this kind of look in her face where her

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face sort of dropped. He's like, what is it?

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What is it? What's wrong? She's like, it's just

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a wee bit of blood. But she looked totally white.

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So for the next 40 minutes or whatever it took,

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he was just waiting and finding out how big a

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disaster it had been. In terms of it's still

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there. They sorted it. Yeah, they either reattached

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it really quickly or she's just more screwy.

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He's never found a seam. I don't really know

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where we go from that story. Yeah. Talking of

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manhood. Manhood. Manliness. Rap. Rap. And then

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hip hop. And then P .O .S. P .O .S. That's how

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it went. Yeah. Hey, I've been working on these

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links. That was so smooth. You guys told me,

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go home and work on your links. I've been going

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home and working on my links. And a lot of you

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worked on them. So this week we're talking about

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Never Better by P .O .S., which I believe is

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kind of mine and Dave's choice at the same time.

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Yeah, I think so. I think so, yeah. I think we

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wanted to do a hip -hop record, and this is one

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that we definitely agreed on. And I had that

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usual blank expression. What is hip -hop? You

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think a president could represent you? You really

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think a president would represent you? They call

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me P .O .S. Bold from the gold to the gold to

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the mice cold bones. Freezing in that Minnesota

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snow. Heating up the winter with the flow. They

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make it rain. I don't know what that is, Chris.

00:10:06.299 --> 00:10:10.139
I can push the glasses further up my nose. I'm

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not sure about that. Is that Puff Diddy? Oh,

00:10:14.840 --> 00:10:19.019
no. I'm not sure. But I got with it. Yeah. In

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the course of... yeah you you down with it bro

00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:25.960
yeah man a lot as fuck is that funnily enough

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is that a good thing you're woke this is one

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of the first hip hop records I ever got into

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really yeah when did it 2009 it came out which

00:10:33.639 --> 00:10:35.139
is weird because I thought it was earlier than

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that so I must have been 23 when this came out

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but I was sure I remember listening to it in

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a flat in uni with my flatmate and really getting

00:10:44.899 --> 00:10:47.659
into it but Apparently I'd moved out of that

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flat according to the actual history. You're

00:10:50.200 --> 00:10:52.340
having a Bernstein -Bears moment. Yeah, I've

00:10:52.340 --> 00:10:54.679
totally got false memories of this record in

00:10:54.679 --> 00:10:57.840
the wrong place, but that's fine. I still like

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it. I didn't misremember that. I mean, that whole

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phenomenon of subjectivity of memory. There you

00:11:05.960 --> 00:11:09.779
go. Jackpot. That's a whole other podcast. Manufactured

00:11:09.779 --> 00:11:11.840
our entire past. Could be a whole live show.

00:11:12.299 --> 00:11:15.299
Even from Ulness. Where's Ulness? I don't know.

00:11:16.110 --> 00:11:18.889
Never been there. Who knows? So, aye, this is

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P .O .S.'s third album. I don't know. Every single

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album he's done has been really different from

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the one before. I don't know if it's my favourite,

00:11:25.450 --> 00:11:27.570
but I think it might be his best. Does that make

00:11:27.570 --> 00:11:29.809
sense? Goddammit, why'd you pick it? I didn't.

00:11:30.090 --> 00:11:32.850
It's my favourite. It's definitely my favourite.

00:11:33.669 --> 00:11:35.230
Definitely my favourite. Definitely your favourite.

00:11:35.549 --> 00:11:37.309
I've got a question before we get started here.

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So, I was looking into his back catalogue to

00:11:39.809 --> 00:11:43.990
try and make, like, I'm Down. And his first EP

00:11:43.990 --> 00:11:47.230
is called False Hopes. Yep. So Mark, I know a

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band called False Hopes with a guy called Mark

00:11:48.750 --> 00:11:50.769
Fraser in it. Who picked the name for that band?

00:11:50.929 --> 00:11:58.110
It may have been me. Coincidence? Yes. Well,

00:11:58.230 --> 00:12:00.570
see, interestingly, a lot of people on Doom C

00:12:00.570 --> 00:12:02.289
have released records called False Hopes. I don't

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know what that's all about. What? The first Doom

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C album's called False Hopes as well. So multiple

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people on the same label have released albums

00:12:07.850 --> 00:12:09.909
and EPs? Released records, EPs and records. Called

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False Hopes? Called False Hopes, yeah. Well,

00:12:11.809 --> 00:12:13.389
that's a bit of a... Kind of weird. That's a

00:12:13.389 --> 00:12:15.840
bit of a fuck you. Yeah. but yeah he's part of

00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:18.299
Doomtree which is a record label slash collective

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that he started he no longer runs it anymore

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Dessa runs it or Dessa I don't know how you say

00:12:22.679 --> 00:12:25.220
that I think Americans say Dessa Dessa I don't

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know but she's do I look like the kind of person

00:12:27.179 --> 00:12:28.399
that would know I don't know why I'm looking

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at you I don't even know why you're here yeah

00:12:31.139 --> 00:12:33.220
so Weaver why do you like this record so much

00:12:33.220 --> 00:12:36.590
why is it your favourite POS record There's just

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something about the live instrumentation, the

00:12:38.610 --> 00:12:41.629
drums. It's a really punk rock hip -hop record.

00:12:56.850 --> 00:13:03.850
Yeah, I was just listening to a lot of new music.

00:13:04.759 --> 00:13:07.320
at that time in my life sort of expanding my

00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:11.580
horizons from my from my normal Korn and Alanis

00:13:11.580 --> 00:13:14.840
Morissette life normal inverted commas no there

00:13:14.840 --> 00:13:16.639
was just something that totally struck me with

00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:19.639
this record it was like the energy that it had

00:13:19.639 --> 00:13:22.720
I don't know it's really fucking immediate it's

00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:24.720
really urgent there's something in his voice

00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:28.080
and then like his lyrics and also you know just

00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:30.500
the productions to me is fucking brilliant it

00:13:30.500 --> 00:13:32.279
totally stands out compared to his other stuff

00:13:32.279 --> 00:13:35.470
yeah because it's and it's really vibrant and

00:13:35.470 --> 00:13:38.610
live. You told me in advance, you were like,

00:13:38.690 --> 00:13:41.169
this guy's like a punk, like a punk hip -hop

00:13:41.169 --> 00:13:43.309
artist, and I was like, I take that with a pinch

00:13:43.309 --> 00:13:45.169
of salt, because Mark, you say a lot of things,

00:13:45.330 --> 00:13:49.330
and most of them, you know, it's like, I see

00:13:49.330 --> 00:13:50.830
where he's coming from, but this one, I really

00:13:50.830 --> 00:13:53.009
see where you're coming from. Like, well, first

00:13:53.009 --> 00:13:56.289
of all, the fact that he plays in Marijuana Death

00:13:56.289 --> 00:13:58.029
Squad. Yeah, he used to work on Building Better

00:13:58.029 --> 00:13:59.549
Bombs. Building Better Bombs, yeah, he played

00:13:59.549 --> 00:14:01.190
guitar and vocals in that, and he's in Marijuana

00:14:01.190 --> 00:14:19.529
Death Squad. Yeah, I mean, he actually is a punk

00:14:19.529 --> 00:14:21.730
rocker. He's a guy who plays in punk rock bands.

00:14:22.009 --> 00:14:24.649
He was then also enough of a hip -hop fan that

00:14:24.649 --> 00:14:27.789
he's pursued a career in that. And there is absolutely

00:14:27.789 --> 00:14:31.629
a strong cross -pollination, not even just a

00:14:31.629 --> 00:14:34.110
tokenistic, contrived sort of, oh, it's kind

00:14:34.110 --> 00:14:36.809
of punk in its attitude. I mean, it is, but musically,

00:14:36.970 --> 00:14:39.789
the live drums in this are what really got me

00:14:39.789 --> 00:14:42.440
into it. It is kind of hard for me to... to relate

00:14:42.440 --> 00:14:43.740
to this stuff and as much as I can relate to

00:14:43.740 --> 00:14:45.460
stuff like Portishead for example Portishead's

00:14:45.460 --> 00:14:47.320
quite downbeat music and it's all about that

00:14:47.320 --> 00:14:49.580
kind of unnerving thing when the music's upbeat

00:14:49.580 --> 00:14:52.700
like this but everything's really sampled and

00:14:52.700 --> 00:14:55.440
really clinical I find it hard to engage with

00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:58.059
it but this has energy you can hear stuff getting

00:14:58.059 --> 00:14:59.940
played you can hear it sounds like a band it

00:14:59.940 --> 00:15:02.259
does yeah it's got a real band vibe and you can

00:15:02.259 --> 00:15:05.139
tell he's drawn that from his own personal enjoyment

00:15:05.139 --> 00:15:08.100
of performance like the energy of like live performance

00:15:08.100 --> 00:15:11.000
and it for me it really elevates this above like

00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:13.669
I was taken aback at how much I liked it I mean

00:15:13.669 --> 00:15:15.830
I don't mind some of the stuff you've suggested

00:15:15.830 --> 00:15:17.990
in the past I've enjoyed it can't say I've listened

00:15:17.990 --> 00:15:21.509
to it since very much but this I've recreationally

00:15:21.509 --> 00:15:23.470
listened to since and I was really impressed

00:15:23.470 --> 00:15:27.710
by the guy's attitude towards combining the best

00:15:27.710 --> 00:15:31.029
elements of two really vibrant styles of music

00:15:31.029 --> 00:15:33.929
yeah and all the drums most of the drums were

00:15:33.929 --> 00:15:36.549
played by him on this or sampled by him he played

00:15:36.549 --> 00:15:41.399
them and sampled them together I guess you could

00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:43.960
say he approaches music in a totally punk kind

00:15:43.960 --> 00:15:46.720
of way. It's just whatever he kind of feels like

00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:49.899
the song needs to have. All of his records sound

00:15:49.899 --> 00:15:52.360
completely different, which I think is a real

00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:54.440
credit to him and his artistic vision. It takes

00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:56.019
him a long time to write a record, though. I

00:15:56.019 --> 00:15:57.259
think the one that came out before this audition

00:15:57.259 --> 00:16:00.700
was 2005, and then We Don't Even Live Here was

00:16:00.700 --> 00:16:03.639
2013 or 2012. Yeah, but Jesus and the guy's playing,

00:16:03.700 --> 00:16:07.600
but he's in the degenerates, he was in Om, he's

00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:09.679
in... Those two bands we mentioned, he does stuff

00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:12.360
with Doomtree. Yeah. He's a busy guy, man. He's

00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:16.019
in that Gangs? Gangs? Gangs. Gangs. He's a member

00:16:16.019 --> 00:16:18.240
of Warfrats with a guy from Gallows and a member

00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:21.139
of Anti -Flag as well. Doing Shredders right

00:16:21.139 --> 00:16:22.899
now, which is his new project. Yeah, he's got

00:16:22.899 --> 00:16:26.740
a radio show weekly in Minnesota at KCMP station.

00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:29.240
I mean, it's like, no wonder it takes him four

00:16:29.240 --> 00:16:31.559
years to do an album at that rate. I was approached

00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:32.899
for hip -hop records with a certain amount of

00:16:32.899 --> 00:16:35.360
trepidation because there's just so many fucking

00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:37.379
songs and lots of hip -hop albums, you know?

00:16:37.929 --> 00:16:39.490
And as a punk kid, my attention span kind of

00:16:39.490 --> 00:16:40.850
started to waver after like a half hour mark.

00:16:40.950 --> 00:16:43.210
Is that a total feature of hip hop records? I

00:16:43.210 --> 00:16:45.870
would say so. Yeah, a lot of them are long or

00:16:45.870 --> 00:16:48.230
a lot of them have like skits and stuff like

00:16:48.230 --> 00:16:50.629
that, you know, like little sort of interludes

00:16:50.629 --> 00:16:52.870
and you just kind of, yeah, so like the track

00:16:52.870 --> 00:16:55.110
listing just goes on and on a little bit. And

00:16:55.110 --> 00:16:58.269
I mean, this is a long record for a punk record.

00:16:58.529 --> 00:17:02.029
It's 55 minutes long, 16 tracks, even though

00:17:02.029 --> 00:17:05.250
the songs are all, you know, punk songs, basically.

00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:07.440
But yeah, there's something about it. I think

00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:09.819
it's got enough diversity in it. The first time

00:17:09.819 --> 00:17:11.640
that I listened back to this when we decided

00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:13.799
we were going to do it, I was remembering it

00:17:13.799 --> 00:17:16.359
and I was like, I do kind of remember it being

00:17:16.359 --> 00:17:19.059
quite long. But then on my first listen back,

00:17:19.259 --> 00:17:21.740
I was like, oh, this next track works really

00:17:21.740 --> 00:17:24.839
well as the next track and it's different. And

00:17:24.839 --> 00:17:27.660
kind of went, yeah, I was happy the whole way

00:17:27.660 --> 00:17:29.380
through until the end. I was like, yeah, I didn't

00:17:29.380 --> 00:17:31.440
get bored. It does that really well. I felt it

00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:34.480
was a wee bit front loaded. like just a wee bit

00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:36.519
like there's some really standout tracks early

00:17:36.519 --> 00:17:38.099
on in it without getting into the track list

00:17:38.099 --> 00:17:41.599
in too much detail it did take going back to

00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:44.000
it and starting midway to try and give the last

00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:46.559
eight tracks a fair amount of attention yeah

00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:48.720
yeah if you listen to it from the start then

00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:50.759
inevitably by track 10 you're kind of like a

00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:54.180
little bit you know but i'm always of the i mean

00:17:54.180 --> 00:17:56.519
how are you supposed to remember you know 16

00:17:56.519 --> 00:17:59.799
tracks just yourself like i i love a short album

00:18:00.190 --> 00:18:01.869
that's why you know it's why when you do things

00:18:01.869 --> 00:18:04.509
like a teaching company and all those kind of

00:18:04.509 --> 00:18:07.329
audio lecture programs it's always you know 30

00:18:07.329 --> 00:18:09.769
to 40 minutes because that's estimated to be

00:18:09.769 --> 00:18:12.630
the optimum attention span yeah exactly that's

00:18:12.630 --> 00:18:14.589
how long you can pay attention to something so

00:18:14.589 --> 00:18:17.930
any longer than that it's stretching you it's

00:18:17.930 --> 00:18:19.410
interesting some albums you go back to and you

00:18:19.410 --> 00:18:21.829
restart them halfway through you experience the

00:18:21.829 --> 00:18:24.450
last stuff in a whole new way that's it and so

00:18:24.450 --> 00:18:26.750
like yeah if you were to listen to this in a

00:18:26.750 --> 00:18:29.009
one hour you might get tired but well What it

00:18:29.009 --> 00:18:31.650
is is it's got 16 really good and interesting

00:18:31.650 --> 00:18:34.150
tracks that are really diverse. So fuck it if

00:18:34.150 --> 00:18:36.369
you get bored or if you're walking halfway and

00:18:36.369 --> 00:18:38.190
you have to stop. Yeah, you're right. You just

00:18:38.190 --> 00:18:40.109
start halfway through and then you get another

00:18:40.109 --> 00:18:42.950
totally different part to it. The tracks from

00:18:42.950 --> 00:18:45.190
the halfway point towards the end are much different

00:18:45.190 --> 00:18:47.750
in feel as well. It does seem to be an album

00:18:47.750 --> 00:18:49.509
which evolves as it goes on. It's very direct

00:18:49.509 --> 00:18:51.690
to begin with and then the tracks towards the

00:18:51.690 --> 00:18:54.609
end are a bit more expansive. A much broader

00:18:54.609 --> 00:19:02.839
soundscape. Dragging a leg Dragging a kettlebell

00:19:02.839 --> 00:19:05.299
Nothing ever gets done Nothing ever just makes

00:19:05.299 --> 00:19:07.980
Someone dismantle Nothing ever gets done Never

00:19:07.980 --> 00:19:10.779
people in place Every never is now Every never

00:19:10.779 --> 00:19:32.529
is now Find a base He doesn't say. He's never...

00:19:32.529 --> 00:19:34.250
He's never said what it is. I just assumed it.

00:19:34.390 --> 00:19:36.650
Because POS, if you do it in shorthand in a message...

00:19:36.650 --> 00:19:37.990
He says it as well. I think one of the songs.

00:19:39.430 --> 00:19:41.910
Maybe it's in We Don't Even Live Here. Chose

00:19:41.910 --> 00:19:44.430
an offensive name. I mean, it's a piece of shit.

00:19:44.490 --> 00:19:45.690
It's definitely a piece of shit. I think it was

00:19:45.690 --> 00:19:47.910
something he used to... He claims that he just

00:19:47.910 --> 00:19:48.930
did it when he was in school. He just called

00:19:48.930 --> 00:19:50.769
himself POS. But he never really says what it's

00:19:50.769 --> 00:19:52.869
for. So he did say he chose an offensive name.

00:19:53.269 --> 00:19:55.289
Alright, okay. But he's never really explicitly

00:19:55.289 --> 00:19:57.630
said what it's for. Just POS. Because you'll

00:19:57.630 --> 00:19:59.539
notice as well... I didn't notice this until

00:19:59.539 --> 00:20:01.519
I got pulled up by a publicist, but there's no

00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:03.400
dot at the end either, so it's not an abbreviation

00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:06.680
fully. Oh, P .O .S. Yeah, there's no abbreviation,

00:20:06.740 --> 00:20:08.700
so it's just like, I think it's just fucking

00:20:08.700 --> 00:20:10.180
me, people. Unless you're doing it at the end

00:20:10.180 --> 00:20:13.000
of a sentence. Like, tomorrow I'm going to be

00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:17.039
speaking to P .O .S. full stop. Fuck you, publicist.

00:20:17.579 --> 00:20:21.000
Deal with that. So, yeah. It's never really been

00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:22.740
particularly clear what it's for, but he's always

00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:25.440
went by that name. I mean, whenever you meet

00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:26.759
him, he always introduces himself as Steph and

00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:28.529
stuff like that, so it's like, Definitely a stage

00:20:28.529 --> 00:20:31.269
name, but... It's not Point of Sale then? Could

00:20:31.269 --> 00:20:33.589
be. It's a visual merchandising from my days

00:20:33.589 --> 00:20:36.369
of working in Summerfield, the supermarket. Summerfield,

00:20:36.450 --> 00:20:41.490
Jesus. Long gone, but heady time. Living on in

00:20:41.490 --> 00:20:45.109
your memory. My mum actually found a gateway...

00:20:45.109 --> 00:20:49.910
To Summerfield? A gateway polybag upstairs in

00:20:49.910 --> 00:20:52.950
the loft the other day. Really? Gateway was what

00:20:52.950 --> 00:20:55.190
turned into Summerfield. Call me when she finds

00:20:55.190 --> 00:20:57.630
a fine fare polybag, mate. I don't even know

00:20:57.630 --> 00:20:59.210
what that is you can sell that shit on eBay and

00:20:59.210 --> 00:21:01.430
make some money right is that true that's true

00:21:01.430 --> 00:21:04.930
oh my god a William Lowe cottage cheese packet

00:21:04.930 --> 00:21:07.630
that'll be worth some money yeah Fine Fair or

00:21:07.630 --> 00:21:09.849
at least in Stirling Fine Fair became Gateway

00:21:09.849 --> 00:21:14.589
became Summerfield yeah John Menzies as well

00:21:14.589 --> 00:21:17.029
turned into WH Smith oh I remember John Menzies

00:21:17.029 --> 00:21:19.009
Menzies is still going though it still exists

00:21:19.009 --> 00:21:22.670
as a And for all those outside of Scotland as

00:21:22.670 --> 00:21:26.109
well, for some inexplicable reason, we pronounce

00:21:26.109 --> 00:21:28.990
the word Menzies as Mingus. Mingus? Yeah. That's

00:21:28.990 --> 00:21:32.329
my mum's middle name. Mingus? Yeah. Fiona Mingus

00:21:32.329 --> 00:21:35.890
Weaver. So Menzies, Mingus. And Mingus, to me,

00:21:35.950 --> 00:21:39.950
suggests minging. I know, but I don't know. I

00:21:39.950 --> 00:21:42.210
don't know. My mum's not minging. You take that

00:21:42.210 --> 00:21:46.230
back. It's like a proper rap battle now, right?

00:21:46.289 --> 00:21:48.069
We're throwing down mama jokes. Yeah, exactly.

00:21:48.349 --> 00:21:50.390
So this is, like we said, this is his third record,

00:21:50.529 --> 00:21:52.230
Audition, the one before it. Moving swiftly on,

00:21:52.309 --> 00:21:54.369
Mark. Audition was the one that came before it.

00:21:54.430 --> 00:21:56.910
That's when I really got into him. I was really

00:21:56.910 --> 00:22:00.150
kind of taken aback by The Other Souls, which

00:22:00.150 --> 00:22:02.539
is a track on that record by... Greg from The

00:22:02.539 --> 00:22:19.720
Bouncin' Souls doing a chorus. I was doing the

00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:21.019
same live actually. I was actually supporting

00:22:21.019 --> 00:22:22.420
The Bouncin' Souls in the cat house and it was

00:22:22.420 --> 00:22:25.019
a really interesting time. Yeah, that's an interesting

00:22:25.019 --> 00:22:27.539
pair. Yeah, definitely. People were getting really

00:22:27.539 --> 00:22:29.319
fucking annoyed at him because he was doing hip

00:22:29.319 --> 00:22:31.700
-hop. And he just basically went to the very

00:22:31.700 --> 00:22:33.700
front of the bar here and he went, look, this

00:22:33.700 --> 00:22:34.980
set is going to happen whether you like it or

00:22:34.980 --> 00:22:36.519
not so you just better turn the fuck around and

00:22:36.519 --> 00:22:37.940
stare at the wall because I'm just going to keep

00:22:37.940 --> 00:22:40.140
going. And he did, he was in the crowd and all

00:22:40.140 --> 00:22:42.140
that and it was just, and then Greg came on and

00:22:42.140 --> 00:22:43.960
everybody went mental and it was really, really

00:22:43.960 --> 00:22:45.640
cool. But it was really quiet for his set as

00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:47.980
well. That's fucking punk as fuck. It's probably

00:22:47.980 --> 00:22:49.460
the most punk thing that happened that night.

00:22:49.539 --> 00:22:52.660
Yeah. And that was, he had, I think it was Paper

00:22:52.660 --> 00:22:54.319
Tiger he had with him or was it Later Beak? It

00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:57.140
was one of the DJs that kind of works in Doomtree

00:22:57.140 --> 00:23:00.849
and his live sound's always been, Fucking pretty

00:23:00.849 --> 00:23:03.750
incredible. He's a really good front man as well.

00:23:04.690 --> 00:23:06.390
Really good showman. I think a lot of hip hop

00:23:06.390 --> 00:23:08.549
artists need to be. But I was auditioning when

00:23:08.549 --> 00:23:09.809
I really got into it. It's also really famous

00:23:09.809 --> 00:23:11.829
for having P .O .S. around in my life, which

00:23:11.829 --> 00:23:13.690
has got an Underworth sample in it. It was buried

00:23:13.690 --> 00:23:16.750
under a flask And I caught a peeking from the

00:23:16.750 --> 00:23:19.730
bottom of a glass All this nonsense, innocence,

00:23:20.210 --> 00:23:23.329
common sense, consequence Indulgence in bourbon,

00:23:23.329 --> 00:23:26.230
this urban twin city kids It's the stuff I love

00:23:28.360 --> 00:23:31.299
The guitar bit is from an Underworld song, which

00:23:31.299 --> 00:23:33.640
he ostensibly used to play live. He doesn't play

00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:35.539
any instruments live anymore, but he used to

00:23:35.539 --> 00:23:37.700
play it live, some videos online. So that's a

00:23:37.700 --> 00:23:39.200
really cool video online of him doing a Pearl

00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:42.839
Jam cover on MTV2, like live from his bedroom.

00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:45.779
I think it's why go? And it's the most abrasive

00:23:45.779 --> 00:23:47.880
thing, like well more abrasive than Pearl Jam

00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:50.180
ever were. I don't think Pearl Jam were famous

00:23:50.180 --> 00:24:09.089
for being particularly abrasive. But it's good

00:24:09.089 --> 00:24:11.670
because he can really sing as well. But it's

00:24:11.670 --> 00:24:12.970
something he doesn't really explore too much.

00:24:13.190 --> 00:24:15.789
That's pretty cool. But he's a properly talented

00:24:15.789 --> 00:24:18.690
guy. I think he underplays it a lot. No arguments,

00:24:18.789 --> 00:24:20.650
man. The guy's clearly turned his hand to a lot

00:24:20.650 --> 00:24:23.769
of things and he's clearly done well at each

00:24:23.769 --> 00:24:26.730
and every one. I noticed that there was a lot

00:24:26.730 --> 00:24:29.529
of chat about We Don't Even Live Here, the album

00:24:29.529 --> 00:24:32.470
after this, as being a bit of a fan favourite.

00:24:32.690 --> 00:24:35.210
How does this compare to that? Well, maybe you

00:24:35.210 --> 00:24:36.529
want to talk about this one. I can talk about

00:24:36.529 --> 00:24:37.650
it for days, but if you've got any thoughts.

00:24:38.250 --> 00:24:41.690
I was really excited for it when it came out

00:24:41.690 --> 00:24:44.210
because I was like I really love this record

00:24:44.210 --> 00:24:47.250
Never Better and I was like I just want more

00:24:47.250 --> 00:24:51.829
sort of live drums I want more energy and I listened

00:24:51.829 --> 00:24:53.980
to it and it was just There's nothing like it.

00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:55.339
There's nothing like that at all. Absolutely

00:24:55.339 --> 00:25:13.720
nothing like this record. The same energy though.

00:25:14.319 --> 00:25:15.980
Yeah, it does. It's just not a punk record. I've

00:25:15.980 --> 00:25:18.640
just, I had to, like, it just put me off it straight

00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:22.119
away. I didn't, I was like oh it's not what I

00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:24.299
expected so I just didn't get into it I have

00:25:24.299 --> 00:25:26.240
recently gone back and listened to it and it

00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:28.200
is actually a decent record it's a very sampled

00:25:28.200 --> 00:25:31.000
what's the difference? because it was electronic

00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:33.180
when he was talking to me about when I was talking

00:25:33.180 --> 00:25:34.240
I don't know if I was doing that interview or

00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:36.299
maybe it was afterwards but he was saying that

00:25:36.299 --> 00:25:38.039
so you interviewed him for another podcast he

00:25:38.039 --> 00:25:39.980
was saying that he couldn't really tell that

00:25:39.980 --> 00:25:43.640
album because of his kidney problems but he said

00:25:43.640 --> 00:25:45.740
when he was going to make that record his goal

00:25:45.740 --> 00:25:47.119
was not only to do something completely different

00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:49.700
like wildly different from Never Better but also

00:25:50.200 --> 00:25:51.700
he was deciding this was going to be the record

00:25:51.700 --> 00:25:52.759
where he was going to spend a lot of money and

00:25:52.759 --> 00:25:55.839
get a good producer in and like you know building

00:25:55.839 --> 00:25:58.660
something completely different he had like Boys

00:25:58.660 --> 00:26:00.480
Noise Boys Noise were on one of his tracks a

00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:03.220
couple others you know like big proper like electro

00:26:03.220 --> 00:26:08.559
producers Justin Vernon's on it he's on How We

00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:11.079
Land yeah he's there's a lyric on that record

00:26:11.079 --> 00:26:13.759
where it's like he's basically building some

00:26:13.759 --> 00:26:15.740
new shit so it's like totally like saying I'm

00:26:15.740 --> 00:26:16.900
doing something completely different at this

00:26:16.900 --> 00:26:19.390
point And it's a much shorter record. I think

00:26:19.390 --> 00:26:21.170
it's only half an hour long. It's 12 tracks,

00:26:21.410 --> 00:26:24.769
but it's basically quite dancey. It's still quite

00:26:24.769 --> 00:26:27.289
abrasive though, for sure. But for me, I love

00:26:27.289 --> 00:26:29.309
it, man. I think it's great. Yeah, I don't know.

00:26:29.369 --> 00:26:31.490
I don't know why. I think going back to it now,

00:26:31.569 --> 00:26:33.990
I can totally see its merits, but when I wanted

00:26:33.990 --> 00:26:36.930
more of Never Better and then it just wasn't

00:26:36.930 --> 00:26:40.490
that. And it maybe, I like really good electronic

00:26:40.490 --> 00:26:42.690
stuff, but it maybe just wasn't heavy enough

00:26:42.690 --> 00:26:47.500
for me in that way. So, yeah for me Never Better

00:26:47.500 --> 00:26:49.400
has always been the one that I go back to and

00:26:49.400 --> 00:26:52.460
it just really sort of captured a sound and it

00:26:52.460 --> 00:26:54.839
was it was very similar I remember hearing this

00:26:54.839 --> 00:26:56.460
was very similar the first time I heard Death

00:26:56.460 --> 00:27:01.059
Grips you know in that like mix of punk and you

00:27:01.059 --> 00:27:04.000
know live drums stuff with hip hop because it

00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:05.920
was obviously it was you guys that really like

00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:08.079
you know forced me to kind of like tackle my

00:27:08.079 --> 00:27:10.319
Death Grips phobia because it's just a lot of

00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:12.000
stuff to get your teeth into and a lot to kind

00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:15.119
of get it familiar with and there is like a there

00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:19.279
is a similarity this is nowhere near as obstinate

00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:21.299
as Death Grips you know it's nowhere near as

00:27:21.299 --> 00:27:23.759
like the Death Grips do that thing where they

00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:26.880
go OTT on the production they go OTT on their

00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:29.200
attitude they go OTT on things and that's part

00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:32.160
of its inherent appeal this is a little bit more

00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:34.759
subtle but it's still in the same direction you

00:27:34.759 --> 00:27:36.000
know it's still and there's definitely a couple

00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:37.880
of tracks on this that if you listen to it you

00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:40.279
could be like oh if Death Grips released that

00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:42.180
now you'd be like oh yeah it's from the new record

00:27:42.599 --> 00:27:44.140
they've just put a chorus in it because that's

00:27:44.140 --> 00:27:45.660
another thing that's on this record he's got

00:27:45.660 --> 00:27:50.019
hooks drumroll big hooks is a big one of that

00:27:50.019 --> 00:27:52.400
as well it's such a it's like a really idiosyncratic

00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:55.380
way to do a hip hop song that kind of snare roll

00:27:55.380 --> 00:28:13.450
all the way through it yeah that's the kind of

00:28:13.450 --> 00:28:15.710
thing that reminded me of Death Grips I mean

00:28:15.710 --> 00:28:20.230
how does and again the last one of the albums

00:28:20.230 --> 00:28:22.430
as far as my way of Chill Dummy how does it compare

00:28:22.430 --> 00:28:26.250
to that it's more chill it's a lot more introspective

00:28:26.250 --> 00:28:29.349
by his own admission the songs are arranged completely

00:28:29.349 --> 00:28:31.869
differently it's hard to describe it's definitely

00:28:31.869 --> 00:28:34.170
not like we don't even live here it's got a totally

00:28:34.170 --> 00:28:36.710
different energy to it as well I can make a completely

00:28:36.710 --> 00:28:38.069
different period in his life as well because

00:28:38.069 --> 00:28:39.450
of the kidney failure stuff and all that and

00:28:39.450 --> 00:28:41.349
the kidney transplant if it sounds by the way

00:28:41.349 --> 00:28:43.950
that We're occasionally ducking Mark underwater

00:28:43.950 --> 00:28:47.829
because he's fighting through illness. It's usually

00:28:47.829 --> 00:28:50.789
slightly worse than a cold. I've got a cold and

00:28:50.789 --> 00:28:55.109
shingles. Slightly better than botulism. I'm

00:28:55.109 --> 00:28:59.009
not contagious though, so it's fine. Just adjust

00:28:59.009 --> 00:29:03.829
your speakers for the flood. How did you find

00:29:03.829 --> 00:29:07.650
it? To be honest, I really haven't listened to

00:29:07.650 --> 00:29:10.539
it much. I don't know why. I think I just kind

00:29:10.539 --> 00:29:13.160
of missed it getting released. Yeah, I don't

00:29:13.160 --> 00:29:14.980
know. For some reason, yeah, because of the record

00:29:14.980 --> 00:29:17.400
before, I just kind of fell out of... Yeah, fell

00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:19.359
off the bandwagon. Fell off the bandwagon, even

00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:21.519
though I knew I loved that record, that one record.

00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:24.180
I was never sort of keeping up to date with what

00:29:24.180 --> 00:29:26.200
POS was doing. It's got one of his best songs

00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:28.240
on it, the last track, Sleep Jones, Superposition.

00:29:37.819 --> 00:29:45.680
So, so good. I actually wouldn't have heard a

00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:47.819
lot about it. It's about eight minutes long and

00:29:47.819 --> 00:29:49.279
it's just a whole bunch of different hip -hop

00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:51.299
artists coming in and doing like that. a chorus

00:29:51.299 --> 00:29:54.440
or a line or a verse or whatever and he's just

00:29:54.440 --> 00:29:57.180
got this constant like just this keyboard sample

00:29:57.180 --> 00:29:59.539
of like this he basically said he used this one

00:29:59.539 --> 00:30:01.380
stint to like do this entire background of a

00:30:01.380 --> 00:30:03.839
track and it sounds dead dense but it's amazing

00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:05.700
it's got Kathleen Hanna on it as well which is

00:30:05.700 --> 00:30:07.299
pretty cool she comes in and does like a spoken

00:30:07.299 --> 00:30:10.259
word a bit yeah I read a little bit about his

00:30:10.259 --> 00:30:12.700
uncertainty about asking her and his uncertainty

00:30:12.700 --> 00:30:14.140
about what she would say about it but that she

00:30:14.140 --> 00:30:16.299
was pretty positive on it but she'd asked to

00:30:16.299 --> 00:30:18.640
approve all the lyrics to the song before she

00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:21.240
took part in it and stuff as well I can see why.

00:30:21.420 --> 00:30:24.880
She was politicised and I'm sure there's no shortage

00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:26.799
of people just waiting to shoot her down in flames

00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:28.559
if she takes part in something where someone's

00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:30.440
saying the wrong thing. Well, that's something

00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:33.559
that he's always been very politically and socially

00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:36.799
aware as well. Very much so. Listening through

00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:39.519
this as well, it's totally atypical when it comes

00:30:39.519 --> 00:30:41.960
to hip -hop from my unenlightened perspective

00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:44.680
in the sense that it just doesn't have that sort

00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:49.670
of crass, braggadocio... gangster fucking misogyny

00:30:49.670 --> 00:30:52.069
vibe through it and I absolutely realise that's

00:30:52.069 --> 00:30:55.450
a terribly broad generalisation I mean yeah you're

00:30:55.450 --> 00:30:57.890
talking about mainstream for people that are

00:30:57.890 --> 00:30:59.269
unfamiliar yeah for people that are unfamiliar

00:30:59.269 --> 00:31:02.369
with it like myself there is that temptation

00:31:02.369 --> 00:31:05.170
to be like how's this how's this gonna go you

00:31:05.170 --> 00:31:07.230
know what am I gonna yeah but I mean yeah there's

00:31:07.230 --> 00:31:11.829
a what's interesting is the time the timing of

00:31:11.829 --> 00:31:15.640
this record was 2009 and that was just when Obama

00:31:15.640 --> 00:31:19.599
was coming into power. First of all, fuck Bush,

00:31:19.680 --> 00:31:22.059
that's the end of it. Yeah, there's a lot of

00:31:22.059 --> 00:31:25.279
that. So this seems like it was an angry record

00:31:25.279 --> 00:31:28.259
because it was coming at the end of Bush, but

00:31:28.259 --> 00:31:31.240
I think it maybe slightly missed the zeitgeist

00:31:31.240 --> 00:31:32.940
a little bit because it was coming at a time

00:31:32.940 --> 00:31:35.720
where there was hope, and they'd got rid of the

00:31:35.720 --> 00:31:40.000
fucking tyrant there. Whereas now, it's a breeding

00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:43.859
ground for... punk and alternative and fuck the

00:31:43.859 --> 00:31:46.140
president and fuck the Tories it's almost passe

00:31:46.140 --> 00:31:49.599
but honestly at the point now where I think comedy

00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:51.359
is engaged with it more than music because for

00:31:51.359 --> 00:31:54.759
music it's so boring to criticise Donald Trump

00:31:54.759 --> 00:31:57.299
it's like who's even wasting their lyrics criticising

00:31:57.299 --> 00:31:59.460
Donald Trump when the guy does nothing more to

00:31:59.460 --> 00:32:01.140
say about it there's nothing they can add to

00:32:01.140 --> 00:32:03.279
it right now well that's it I mean he's so beyond

00:32:03.279 --> 00:32:07.220
parody You can see why people had to work a little

00:32:07.220 --> 00:32:09.240
harder. As bad as Bush was, you can see why people

00:32:09.240 --> 00:32:11.299
had to work a little harder to critique him.

00:32:11.460 --> 00:32:13.559
And then there was people during Obama that were,

00:32:13.640 --> 00:32:15.839
especially four years in, who were a little bit

00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:17.359
disillusioned that were starting to critique

00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:19.920
him and all these things about drones and about

00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:22.200
different aspects of his domestic policy that

00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:25.339
they were, you know, it's not really the second

00:32:25.339 --> 00:32:27.420
coming that we hoped for. And people had to work

00:32:27.420 --> 00:32:30.160
for it. And so it seemed better suited to musicians

00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:32.859
within their lyrics. to muse on these things

00:32:32.859 --> 00:32:35.000
and you know find the cracks in the policies

00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:37.380
and find the inconsistencies and the hypocrisies

00:32:37.380 --> 00:32:40.019
man it's so I mean it's like shooting fish in

00:32:40.019 --> 00:32:41.940
a barrel trying to like criticise Donald Trump

00:32:41.940 --> 00:32:45.059
the guy's almost out trolled everybody there's

00:32:45.059 --> 00:32:47.500
very little music which really that I'm hearing

00:32:47.500 --> 00:32:49.059
anyway that's coming out and actually making

00:32:49.059 --> 00:32:51.960
a point of that it's really bizarre there's actually

00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:53.940
a couple of tracks on we don't even live here

00:32:53.940 --> 00:32:56.019
that even criticise Obama as well because like

00:32:56.019 --> 00:32:57.519
it's because the black guy's in power doesn't

00:32:57.519 --> 00:32:59.099
necessarily mean to say anything different you

00:32:59.099 --> 00:33:00.980
know rightly so as a black guy he's probably

00:33:00.980 --> 00:33:03.420
sitting there going nothing's changed for these

00:33:03.420 --> 00:33:05.380
people and people around me you know the guy

00:33:05.380 --> 00:33:07.200
was the best president of our lifetime but he's

00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:09.900
still within that role it's very low standard

00:33:09.900 --> 00:33:12.900
he was still there was still plenty within his

00:33:12.900 --> 00:33:15.980
time that left a lot to be desired and albeit

00:33:16.329 --> 00:33:18.809
a lot more nuanced it's a really interesting

00:33:18.809 --> 00:33:20.549
point that you say that this was coming on just

00:33:20.549 --> 00:33:23.130
at that era because there was a there was a change

00:33:23.130 --> 00:33:25.109
there was a change in tone there was a change

00:33:25.109 --> 00:33:26.970
in vibe and you remember what that feeling when

00:33:26.970 --> 00:33:28.789
he first got elected it was just yeah absolutely

00:33:28.789 --> 00:33:31.369
and this was kind of the opposite in that it

00:33:31.369 --> 00:33:34.509
was a sort of slightly negative take on society

00:33:34.509 --> 00:33:37.930
and a sort of pessimistic view of just how we

00:33:37.930 --> 00:33:40.250
you know you read the lyrics and it's like it

00:33:40.250 --> 00:33:42.769
is quite pessimistic about how we deal with each

00:33:42.769 --> 00:33:45.589
other as humans and never better that's you know

00:33:45.589 --> 00:33:47.650
the whole point of it I mean I guess the interpersonal

00:33:47.650 --> 00:33:50.269
stuff remains valid I mean I think the smaller

00:33:50.269 --> 00:33:53.410
you focus your lyrics the smaller you know you

00:33:53.410 --> 00:33:56.109
cast that light the more relevant it remains

00:33:56.109 --> 00:33:59.529
you know because these interpersonal issues tend

00:33:59.529 --> 00:34:03.589
to perpetuate throughout generations but with

00:34:03.589 --> 00:34:05.809
the bigger subjects especially like Bush and

00:34:05.809 --> 00:34:09.130
the Iraq war it doesn't always date that well

00:34:09.130 --> 00:34:12.650
especially when it's superseded by something

00:34:13.580 --> 00:34:17.659
exponentially more like although in saying that

00:34:17.659 --> 00:34:21.420
not exponentially more like awful in terms of

00:34:21.420 --> 00:34:23.820
body count I think people forget that but exponentially

00:34:23.820 --> 00:34:27.800
more awful in terms of sheer just appalling decline

00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:30.619
of institutions and I think it is interesting

00:34:30.619 --> 00:34:33.199
the timing of this record and how it connected

00:34:33.199 --> 00:34:37.159
at that time did people sort of go ah man those

00:34:37.159 --> 00:34:39.280
are some killer jams but I'm just not feeling

00:34:39.280 --> 00:34:42.110
that sort of cynicism right now that That surely

00:34:42.110 --> 00:34:45.630
is a phenomenon that could be tracked. There's

00:34:45.630 --> 00:34:48.510
a song called Optimist, isn't there? So it's

00:34:48.510 --> 00:34:51.489
not completely pessimistic, but I do think he

00:34:51.489 --> 00:34:53.510
had a lot of valid things to say at that time

00:34:53.510 --> 00:34:56.590
because I think he just has a general distrust

00:34:56.590 --> 00:34:58.989
of politicians. That can be kind of passy within

00:34:58.989 --> 00:35:00.969
punk and hip -hop, can't it? I mean, it's how

00:35:00.969 --> 00:35:02.949
you articulate that. I mean, having a mistrust

00:35:02.949 --> 00:35:05.570
or a distrust is sort of like a bit of an eye

00:35:05.570 --> 00:35:07.710
roller. It's like, yeah, whatever, but... what

00:35:07.710 --> 00:35:09.510
have you actually got to say about it? Where

00:35:09.510 --> 00:35:10.929
are you coming from? And it seems like he does

00:35:10.929 --> 00:35:12.869
come from some pretty interesting places. Yeah.

00:35:12.969 --> 00:35:16.469
You know, it's not just a kind of blanket, numbskull...

00:35:16.469 --> 00:35:18.829
Bug the press, dude. No, no, he studies things.

00:35:19.030 --> 00:35:20.969
You know, he studies what he's saying. Yeah,

00:35:21.050 --> 00:35:23.329
it's definitely not just sort of blanket insults

00:35:23.329 --> 00:35:26.809
at society. I think there's nuance in his thought,

00:35:26.929 --> 00:35:29.510
which I like. So, I mean, it seems like the album

00:35:29.510 --> 00:35:32.909
fits especially well then, given, you know, that

00:35:32.909 --> 00:35:35.730
one of the remits of the whole unsung thing was

00:35:35.730 --> 00:35:39.280
that trying to... picture which albums could

00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:41.960
be the best within the catalogue of an under

00:35:41.960 --> 00:35:45.659
-recognised artist as well as bigger artists

00:35:45.659 --> 00:35:49.059
in the under -recognised album and this one really

00:35:49.059 --> 00:35:52.760
is a strong shout for that. It's worth noting

00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:55.300
at this point as well, he's the only member from

00:35:55.300 --> 00:35:58.079
Doomtree that has signed to Rhyme Sears Records

00:35:58.079 --> 00:36:01.539
which is the much bigger record label founded

00:36:01.539 --> 00:36:04.280
by Atmosphere based in Minneapolis as well and

00:36:04.280 --> 00:36:07.510
Atmosphere are a pretty huge deal. in America

00:36:07.510 --> 00:36:09.230
certainly and I think they sold out the garage

00:36:09.230 --> 00:36:10.889
last time he played here as well so they're really

00:36:10.889 --> 00:36:13.829
quite well known and Slug the singer or the sort

00:36:13.829 --> 00:36:16.289
of vocalist MC whatever he's been really good

00:36:16.289 --> 00:36:18.190
at bringing artists through but he's always seen

00:36:18.190 --> 00:36:20.429
quite a lot in POS I think which is why he signed

00:36:20.429 --> 00:36:21.989
him to Rhyme Stairs and Rhyme Stairs is a really

00:36:21.989 --> 00:36:24.010
big thing and I think Doomtree initially was

00:36:24.010 --> 00:36:26.429
kind of trying to be based on that but Doomtree's

00:36:26.429 --> 00:36:37.960
definitely went in its own direction Hi, guys.

00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:44.679
Dave here. Bruno Brooks. Yeah. I hope you're

00:36:44.679 --> 00:36:48.139
enjoying this podcast. I know I sure am. But

00:36:48.139 --> 00:36:50.440
unfortunately, I've got to walk home because

00:36:50.440 --> 00:36:53.980
I can't afford to fill my car with petrol. That's

00:36:53.980 --> 00:36:57.480
not true. I just filled it up yesterday. Just

00:36:57.480 --> 00:36:59.300
keep it. They'll believe it. They'll believe

00:36:59.300 --> 00:37:00.800
it. Yeah, exactly. I know. But I couldn't afford

00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:02.820
to. I'm going to have to... Oh, fuck. I'm going

00:37:02.820 --> 00:37:07.460
to start again. I like that. In fact, I can't

00:37:07.460 --> 00:37:09.380
start again because we can't afford any more

00:37:09.380 --> 00:37:12.400
tape. So I'll just have to keep going. Please

00:37:12.400 --> 00:37:15.039
donate money to help this podcast. Just give

00:37:15.039 --> 00:37:17.199
us a quid if you enjoy it. Give us two quid if

00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:21.360
you love it. Give us four pounds if you want

00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:25.659
to go out with Chris on a date. Why so dear?

00:37:26.300 --> 00:37:30.659
You know. But yeah, just go to unsungpod .net

00:37:30.659 --> 00:37:34.679
Slash donate. Slash donate. Slash donate You

00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:36.039
pulled it out of the fire I thought that was

00:37:36.039 --> 00:37:38.599
done Slash donate You brought it back Slash donate

00:37:38.599 --> 00:38:03.050
Slash donate That would be lovely Thanks the

00:38:03.050 --> 00:38:07.230
album it peaked at 106 I believe in the US charts

00:38:07.230 --> 00:38:10.570
so it's not it wasn't mainstream but that's pretty

00:38:10.570 --> 00:38:13.230
good for a sort of small independent yeah and

00:38:13.230 --> 00:38:16.090
I mean that's you know post that kind of 2004

00:38:16.090 --> 00:38:20.050
sales cliff that happened so it's still modest

00:38:20.050 --> 00:38:26.469
albeit not insignificant he did a warp tour around

00:38:26.469 --> 00:38:29.550
this record he went on warp tour which was interesting

00:38:29.550 --> 00:38:32.219
because he was like yeah I'm not I'm not doing

00:38:32.219 --> 00:38:36.960
hip hop clubs I'm a live punk artist what's the

00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:39.260
story about him accidentally ending up in the

00:38:39.260 --> 00:38:41.079
Gym Class Heroes tour how did he accidentally

00:38:41.079 --> 00:38:45.320
end up in that I don't know I was looking it

00:38:45.320 --> 00:38:47.380
up it was probably from Warped Tour though that's

00:38:47.380 --> 00:38:49.500
the only valid reason I can think of so the Gym

00:38:49.500 --> 00:38:50.900
Class Heroes were touring and all it said was

00:38:50.900 --> 00:38:52.900
he accidentally ended up in this tour and I was

00:38:52.900 --> 00:38:56.949
like damned if I could find out why so basically

00:38:56.949 --> 00:38:59.889
after this record I've hinted at it a few times

00:38:59.889 --> 00:39:01.530
as well he had a lot of health for his whole

00:39:01.530 --> 00:39:03.349
life he had a lot of health problems he had chronic

00:39:03.349 --> 00:39:07.289
kidney problems for his entire life until fairly

00:39:07.289 --> 00:39:09.369
recently and it would be a case where he would

00:39:09.369 --> 00:39:11.469
like take a dialysis machine on tour with him

00:39:11.469 --> 00:39:13.090
and after we'd come off stage the first thing

00:39:13.090 --> 00:39:15.610
he'd do would go go out on dialysis because his

00:39:15.610 --> 00:39:17.489
kidneys were just basically not cleaning up his

00:39:17.489 --> 00:39:21.059
blood properly and he put all this energy all

00:39:21.059 --> 00:39:22.900
this time all this effort and getting the right

00:39:22.900 --> 00:39:24.599
people or getting people that he really liked

00:39:24.599 --> 00:39:26.440
involved to try and make a bit more of a mainstream

00:39:26.440 --> 00:39:28.760
record than We Don't Even Live Here and We Don't

00:39:28.760 --> 00:39:29.800
Even Live Here has got a lot of that it's got

00:39:29.800 --> 00:39:31.300
a lot of really it's got a lot of choruses on

00:39:31.300 --> 00:39:34.099
it a bit like Low Light Low Life that kind of

00:39:34.099 --> 00:39:37.210
thing which is on Never Better so basically they

00:39:37.210 --> 00:39:38.590
put all this time and effort into writing this

00:39:38.590 --> 00:39:41.090
record and getting this record made and I really

00:39:41.090 --> 00:39:42.969
like it I think it's a fucking great record I

00:39:42.969 --> 00:39:44.730
couldn't stop listening to it despite the fact

00:39:44.730 --> 00:39:46.250
it's got Justin Vernon on it but it's a whole

00:39:46.250 --> 00:39:47.889
different it's a whole different conversation

00:39:47.889 --> 00:39:50.230
we'll have another day when I interviewed him

00:39:50.230 --> 00:39:51.829
he said he had a huge plan for like a year and

00:39:51.829 --> 00:39:53.829
a half of like just solid fucking hitting the

00:39:53.829 --> 00:39:55.690
road and absolutely paying the fuck out of the

00:39:55.690 --> 00:39:57.670
record and he was like but my kidneys just couldn't

00:39:57.670 --> 00:40:00.510
do it so they failed and it was all over the

00:40:00.510 --> 00:40:03.150
internet and lots and lots of kind fans said

00:40:03.150 --> 00:40:05.380
they would donate kidneys and all that Did he

00:40:05.380 --> 00:40:07.880
actually take a kidney from a fan? I don't know.

00:40:07.960 --> 00:40:10.380
I think he took it from one of his close friends,

00:40:10.519 --> 00:40:13.320
friends or family members. But he had people

00:40:13.320 --> 00:40:15.659
donating shit, wanting to donate that stuff to

00:40:15.659 --> 00:40:18.380
him. And he raised quite a lot of money for the

00:40:18.380 --> 00:40:21.179
surgery and all that. So see if you give a band,

00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:23.920
or even better, if you give a musician money

00:40:23.920 --> 00:40:26.800
or kidneys, and then you ask for a guestie, what's

00:40:26.800 --> 00:40:33.059
that, a plus? Plus six for life. Six? I should

00:40:33.059 --> 00:40:35.880
think, yeah. Because you'd be dead. You'd just

00:40:35.880 --> 00:40:39.639
saved a man or woman's life. A plus 50 % of the

00:40:39.639 --> 00:40:44.340
capacity of the room. But after that, he was

00:40:44.340 --> 00:40:46.920
off the road for ages and he didn't really do

00:40:46.920 --> 00:40:49.460
very much. And one of the reasons why Child Dummy

00:40:49.460 --> 00:40:51.500
took so long to come about is because he said,

00:40:51.579 --> 00:40:52.800
by his own admission, if he had some interviews

00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:54.840
around it, he actually references it in his Sleep

00:40:54.840 --> 00:40:57.300
Drone superposition, I think. He wanted to write

00:40:57.300 --> 00:41:00.579
music about how he was thankful, about how people

00:41:00.579 --> 00:41:03.010
would... donated stuff or like wanted to help

00:41:03.010 --> 00:41:05.190
him but it's like it was all coming out really

00:41:05.190 --> 00:41:08.369
cheesy and horrible and then from what I gather

00:41:08.369 --> 00:41:10.369
I don't know I don't know much about this but

00:41:10.369 --> 00:41:12.710
like a lot of people were also he kind of lost

00:41:12.710 --> 00:41:14.289
a lot of friendships as well because he was so

00:41:14.289 --> 00:41:16.050
ill and he couldn't do anything all he was doing

00:41:16.050 --> 00:41:17.969
for like six months to a year was just like rattling

00:41:17.969 --> 00:41:19.889
around his house while he was getting better

00:41:19.889 --> 00:41:22.230
and he's got two kids so so what do you mean

00:41:22.230 --> 00:41:23.730
he was disillusioned because the people that

00:41:23.730 --> 00:41:26.320
claimed to be close to him didn't actually it

00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:28.500
was was it that music thing where you have a

00:41:28.500 --> 00:41:30.480
lot of acquaintances and not friends and you

00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:32.559
kind of find that out in a kind of hard time

00:41:32.559 --> 00:41:34.460
i don't know for sure but that seems to be from

00:41:34.460 --> 00:41:37.500
interviews kind of one thing which has been implied

00:41:37.500 --> 00:41:39.639
in it that's a bit of a theme in chill dummy

00:41:39.639 --> 00:41:41.920
as well like it's a bit of a theme in music really

00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:44.039
i think it's one of those industries where people

00:41:44.039 --> 00:41:46.360
network people play shows people meet people

00:41:46.360 --> 00:41:51.260
and everybody's very oh hey you know how many

00:41:51.260 --> 00:41:52.900
of these people can you actually count on so

00:41:52.900 --> 00:41:54.940
to me it's interesting to hear when somebody

00:41:54.940 --> 00:41:57.760
gets to one of those moments and then they're

00:41:57.760 --> 00:42:00.340
kind of like looking at their list of calls to

00:42:00.340 --> 00:42:02.179
see you know when was the last time this person

00:42:02.179 --> 00:42:04.980
wondered how I was I'm worried about speaking

00:42:04.980 --> 00:42:06.679
for them because obviously there's much more

00:42:06.679 --> 00:42:09.519
to it there must be and it's possible I may have

00:42:09.519 --> 00:42:11.139
got it wrong from my interpretation of the interviews

00:42:11.139 --> 00:42:13.500
but certainly it seems to be a theme from the

00:42:13.500 --> 00:42:31.179
stuff that I've read anyway I like to think I

00:42:31.179 --> 00:42:32.679
know what people are thinking better than they

00:42:32.679 --> 00:42:35.260
do so that's fine I'll take that upon myself

00:42:35.260 --> 00:42:38.119
you're welcome but yeah and Childhood Music are

00:42:38.119 --> 00:42:40.360
completely different records with that particularly

00:42:40.360 --> 00:42:43.969
in mind so did he Those as well Because a lot

00:42:43.969 --> 00:42:45.869
of this Was self produced right No it didn't

00:42:45.869 --> 00:42:48.010
do We don't even No sorry That's the one that

00:42:48.010 --> 00:42:50.250
had A lot of producers on it But did he revert

00:42:50.250 --> 00:42:52.849
To produce themself Or because It's a combination

00:42:52.849 --> 00:42:54.949
On Chill Dummy I think that's one of the Really

00:42:54.949 --> 00:42:57.550
appealing things About albums Is sometimes It

00:42:57.550 --> 00:42:59.750
just clicks so well When the artist Has a big

00:42:59.750 --> 00:43:01.190
role In the production Because you're getting

00:43:01.190 --> 00:43:03.510
Something really uttered You're getting something

00:43:03.510 --> 00:43:06.409
Really unfiltered And full of personality And

00:43:06.409 --> 00:43:09.510
you know Yeah I think there's Something on this

00:43:09.510 --> 00:43:12.340
record Like even the tracks That are very different

00:43:12.340 --> 00:43:16.340
from each other, still have a very similar feel.

00:43:16.619 --> 00:43:18.119
Yeah, it sounds like an album. It doesn't sound

00:43:18.119 --> 00:43:19.820
like a collection of songs. It sounds like an

00:43:19.820 --> 00:43:22.820
album. It sounds scrappy at points, I think,

00:43:22.820 --> 00:43:25.260
as well. But, I mean, it's not a euphemism for,

00:43:25.320 --> 00:43:26.800
like, poorly produced. I think it's really well

00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:44.900
produced. It's unfussy, and we've spoken about

00:43:44.900 --> 00:43:47.139
that in the past. We spoke about what Port said,

00:43:47.239 --> 00:43:49.780
for example. There's an unfussiness to the samples

00:43:49.780 --> 00:43:52.119
that are used. You can hear some of the hiss,

00:43:52.260 --> 00:43:54.000
you can hear some of the room noise in some of

00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:56.159
the drum samples. They're not clean samples,

00:43:56.420 --> 00:43:59.559
not being overly gated or overly EQ'd. They're

00:43:59.559 --> 00:44:02.440
quite raw, but it's kind of nice because of that.

00:44:02.500 --> 00:44:04.579
There's personality in there, there's a real

00:44:04.579 --> 00:44:08.909
sense of authenticity. that tends to come from

00:44:08.909 --> 00:44:10.510
it and sometimes it's deliberate and other times

00:44:10.510 --> 00:44:13.409
it's just a producer's naivety you know but sometimes

00:44:13.409 --> 00:44:17.230
getting a better producer actually the result

00:44:17.230 --> 00:44:19.110
is not as good because the better producer's

00:44:19.110 --> 00:44:20.730
instincts are like oh that's got some hiss at

00:44:20.730 --> 00:44:23.929
like 6k let's let's kill that whereas the artist

00:44:23.929 --> 00:44:27.170
might not really have twigged and then weirdly

00:44:27.170 --> 00:44:30.110
that adds you know a bit of like life to something

00:44:30.110 --> 00:44:32.400
that could have been too clean and I think this

00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:34.980
album has a lot of that in it it's got a lot

00:44:34.980 --> 00:44:37.519
of personality and even though these songs and

00:44:37.519 --> 00:44:39.019
even the approaches to some of these songs are

00:44:39.019 --> 00:44:41.860
very different none of them sound too slick I

00:44:41.860 --> 00:45:00.630
think the slickest one is Goodbye for me that's

00:45:00.630 --> 00:45:02.329
the one that when I heard it I can hear it in

00:45:02.329 --> 00:45:04.949
my head right now it's a really strong single

00:45:04.949 --> 00:45:07.510
and it sounds to me like the closest to like

00:45:07.510 --> 00:45:10.869
stereotypical big hip hop single but it's not

00:45:10.869 --> 00:45:12.590
overproduced We Don't Even Live Here has got

00:45:12.590 --> 00:45:14.230
a lot more songs like that on it like Fuck Your

00:45:14.230 --> 00:45:16.909
Stuff was like the first single from that and

00:45:16.909 --> 00:45:19.730
it's got that sound immediately it's still got

00:45:19.730 --> 00:45:21.489
the same kind of vocal tics that he has you know

00:45:21.489 --> 00:45:23.690
like sometimes in the record he'll say stuff

00:45:23.690 --> 00:45:38.019
as if he's talking to an engineer yeah he makes

00:45:38.019 --> 00:45:39.739
mistakes but he leaves them in doesn't he he's

00:45:39.739 --> 00:45:41.000
kind of got a little bit of that yeah it's nice

00:45:41.000 --> 00:45:42.920
which I really like about all of his records

00:45:42.920 --> 00:45:44.139
because he's always got stuff like that on it

00:45:44.139 --> 00:45:46.539
which I think is very intentional I think low

00:45:46.539 --> 00:45:48.440
light low life is like the one that's like a

00:45:48.440 --> 00:45:52.059
real sort of dance like that's you know you can

00:45:52.059 --> 00:45:54.119
see that getting played in a club and it's like

00:45:54.119 --> 00:45:56.920
really upbeat and it comes after a couple of

00:45:56.920 --> 00:45:59.900
sort of more introverted tracks there goes another

00:45:59.900 --> 00:46:02.760
one right out from under him different seashore

00:46:02.760 --> 00:46:06.159
same 30 stores there goes another one right out

00:46:06.159 --> 00:46:08.659
from under him worldwide mining town steal it

00:46:08.659 --> 00:46:11.440
up sell it down and not too long ago my man popped

00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:14.699
on the shop prognosis progress I kind of thought

00:46:14.699 --> 00:46:16.480
that's another one that's like really the sample

00:46:16.480 --> 00:46:18.380
on that is fucking great as well man yeah yeah

00:46:18.380 --> 00:46:21.199
yeah I actually thought it was a slightly strange

00:46:21.199 --> 00:46:23.280
choice to start with Let It Rattle I thought

00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:25.860
it was a pretty slow start to the album. I mean,

00:46:25.860 --> 00:46:28.860
it's a strong tune once it gets going, but it

00:46:28.860 --> 00:46:46.320
takes a couple of minutes to get going. He's

00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:47.519
got that and we don't even live for it as well.

00:46:47.519 --> 00:46:49.119
The first song, Bumper, is kind of like drumroll.

00:46:49.469 --> 00:46:51.510
It's just like, it's really abrasive but it's

00:46:51.510 --> 00:46:53.090
really sparse sounding and it takes a while to

00:46:53.090 --> 00:46:54.550
get somewhere then you get into the next track

00:46:54.550 --> 00:46:55.750
and you're like, oh fuck, we're going. I mean,

00:46:55.769 --> 00:46:58.150
the drums kick Letter Rattle into shape. I mean,

00:46:58.170 --> 00:47:00.630
that's when it opens up and you hear that this

00:47:00.630 --> 00:47:03.210
is a punky album and you hear the sound of the

00:47:03.210 --> 00:47:05.730
drums in the room. But more like, what exactly

00:47:05.730 --> 00:47:09.210
do you do? They hide their eyes and can't describe

00:47:09.210 --> 00:47:12.849
what they've been missing. They fire blind and

00:47:12.849 --> 00:47:15.210
can't describe what they've been laying down.

00:47:19.150 --> 00:47:22.250
But I just thought, musically speaking, it was

00:47:22.250 --> 00:47:23.909
quite a slow start and I wasn't really sure.

00:47:24.190 --> 00:47:26.570
I mean, I think the track to the drum roll is

00:47:26.570 --> 00:47:29.050
superb. I mean, I just think that's such a great

00:47:29.050 --> 00:47:48.519
tune. That shout, God, I'm bored. Yeah. That's

00:47:48.519 --> 00:47:50.820
brilliant. I really, I love that. I mean, that

00:47:50.820 --> 00:47:54.179
was the, that was the one where, you know, I'm

00:47:54.179 --> 00:47:55.619
like, all right, we're doing this record. I have

00:47:55.619 --> 00:47:56.880
to, I have to listen to it. And I listened to

00:47:56.880 --> 00:47:57.980
the first tune. I was like, that's pretty cool.

00:47:58.079 --> 00:48:00.559
You know, try to just very cerebrally appraising

00:48:00.559 --> 00:48:02.199
the sounds and trying to like think of what I'm

00:48:02.199 --> 00:48:04.199
going to say. Track two, I was like, I genuinely

00:48:04.199 --> 00:48:06.039
like this. This is, this is actually something

00:48:06.039 --> 00:48:08.599
I'm really enjoying and I'm no longer kind of

00:48:08.599 --> 00:48:11.219
making notes. I'm just appreciating it. And that

00:48:11.219 --> 00:48:13.860
was, that was nice. It was, it was encouraging,

00:48:14.019 --> 00:48:16.500
you know, and from then on, I didn't think it

00:48:16.500 --> 00:48:18.820
slowed down for quite a while. Savion Glover

00:48:18.820 --> 00:48:21.119
came off of Doomtree mixtape yeah that's a previous

00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:23.619
song that he's recorded and he redid it for this

00:48:23.619 --> 00:48:41.679
and I mean that was that's like catnip for me

00:48:41.679 --> 00:48:45.739
because of the Fugazi references yeah I think

00:48:45.739 --> 00:48:47.360
it's a bit more conventional than hip -hop, but

00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:53.519
I'm a sucker for a name drop, and the Fugazi

00:48:53.519 --> 00:48:56.699
trivia is, yeah, you've got me there, man. You

00:48:56.699 --> 00:48:59.920
can take me home now. I'm ready for bed. This

00:48:59.920 --> 00:49:01.539
is a bit of an aside, but it's still hip -hop

00:49:01.539 --> 00:49:04.420
related. There's a Sage Francis song on that

00:49:04.420 --> 00:49:07.539
record he did called Non -Profits, and he had

00:49:07.539 --> 00:49:10.230
this alter ego on it called Zolzan. and there's

00:49:10.230 --> 00:49:11.789
a line on one of the songs that's just like I

00:49:11.789 --> 00:49:14.170
go to Fugadi she's requesting minor threat songs

00:49:14.170 --> 00:49:16.570
which is like one of the best fucking things

00:49:16.570 --> 00:49:18.389
I've heard in a long time I'm a total mark for

00:49:18.389 --> 00:49:20.369
that stuff man it's like if you're not sure about

00:49:20.369 --> 00:49:22.489
the crowd throw that in and it's just like yeah

00:49:22.489 --> 00:49:26.449
I'm at the merch stand it's got a great kick

00:49:26.449 --> 00:49:28.929
beat in Savion Glover as well and it's like it's

00:49:28.929 --> 00:49:32.170
a really subtle detail in the song but the kick

00:49:32.170 --> 00:49:33.949
drum beat is brilliant like it could have been

00:49:33.949 --> 00:49:37.000
a flat tune but that completely sets everything

00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:39.400
off and if you haven't even thought about it

00:49:39.400 --> 00:49:41.800
in that sense listen to it back and just listen

00:49:41.800 --> 00:49:44.719
to how much that kick beat breathes life into

00:49:44.719 --> 00:49:47.079
that tune I think the percussion in this record

00:49:47.079 --> 00:49:51.719
is what gives it that biting sort of energy and

00:49:51.719 --> 00:49:54.360
urgency that really sort of sets it apart for

00:49:54.360 --> 00:49:57.000
me Yeah, definitely. Pure X is probably my favourite

00:49:57.000 --> 00:50:15.400
song on the record. You know, there's a weirdly

00:50:15.400 --> 00:50:20.340
post -rock vibe to Pure X. See that big cymbal

00:50:20.340 --> 00:50:23.679
crash thing at the end? It's got that epic sort

00:50:23.679 --> 00:50:27.030
of rock dynamic to it that you'd virtually never

00:50:27.030 --> 00:50:31.650
hear on hip hop records yeah and yeah I mean

00:50:31.650 --> 00:50:34.010
I think I've already kind of said I think track

00:50:34.010 --> 00:50:37.769
six of Goodbye with I mean it's just that is

00:50:37.769 --> 00:50:39.530
a that is a single I mean he must have known

00:50:39.530 --> 00:50:42.210
he probably I mean he was probably I think as

00:50:42.210 --> 00:50:45.550
somebody who's had to arrange more than a couple

00:50:45.550 --> 00:50:48.469
of records in my time it's like when you're trying

00:50:48.469 --> 00:50:50.570
to pick that first tune and you've got this one

00:50:50.570 --> 00:50:52.909
and you're like this is such a banger do a blow

00:50:52.909 --> 00:50:55.510
my load straight off the bat yeah do I do like

00:50:55.510 --> 00:50:59.630
a space hog yeah one hit wonder kind of like

00:50:59.630 --> 00:51:02.150
front load it to fuck just like stick the big

00:51:02.150 --> 00:51:03.610
single on it's the first track and everything

00:51:03.610 --> 00:51:05.889
else is just like it's a one track and then like

00:51:05.889 --> 00:51:09.250
10 b sides yeah better in this case 15 but you

00:51:09.250 --> 00:51:11.369
know he puts goodbye in it but I think it's number

00:51:11.369 --> 00:51:16.059
six yeah that is a that's a big tune or at least

00:51:16.059 --> 00:51:18.599
until I try at least until I'm right but at least

00:51:18.599 --> 00:51:21.159
until I'm fly let me get it on tight but at least

00:51:21.159 --> 00:51:23.099
until it's mine but at least until it's time

00:51:23.099 --> 00:51:25.400
let me set them up and knock them down come on

00:51:25.400 --> 00:51:27.699
but at least until I'm fine but at least until

00:51:27.699 --> 00:51:29.539
I'm wrong but at least until I got there's some

00:51:29.539 --> 00:51:31.619
really nice synths in it it's got the kind of

00:51:31.619 --> 00:51:34.239
slightly cheesy female backing vocal as well

00:51:34.239 --> 00:51:37.619
but it's just you were talking about dance floor

00:51:37.619 --> 00:51:39.860
tunes I think that's the dance floor tune in

00:51:39.860 --> 00:51:42.579
this album for me I've definitely played that

00:51:42.579 --> 00:51:45.829
a good few times Get Smokes is kind of cool,

00:51:45.889 --> 00:51:48.309
just this little interlude almost. Yeah. I mean,

00:51:48.329 --> 00:51:50.030
the sparse drum clips in that are brilliant,

00:51:50.090 --> 00:51:52.329
man. That's really, really nice, the way he's

00:51:52.329 --> 00:51:56.010
kind of broken them up. That's a bit Death Grips

00:51:56.010 --> 00:51:57.889
-y in that sense as well. It's quite choppy sounding,

00:51:57.969 --> 00:52:07.940
yeah. okay slash fast getaway crash whatever

00:52:07.940 --> 00:52:10.239
path and stop whether it's caskets or gas it's

00:52:10.239 --> 00:52:12.179
last drops or stash whatever math I've added

00:52:12.179 --> 00:52:14.300
in a basket and buried you let him pull the wall

00:52:14.300 --> 00:52:16.260
and low light low life which we've already spoken

00:52:16.260 --> 00:52:19.699
about is just big soulful beast yeah it's got

00:52:19.699 --> 00:52:21.659
that it's got that amazing that was when I first

00:52:21.659 --> 00:52:24.440
heard Desa or Desa yeah her her verse is just

00:52:24.440 --> 00:52:26.579
fucking brilliant amazing man she's so good yeah

00:52:26.579 --> 00:52:29.380
she's so so good I think it's got Astronautalis

00:52:29.380 --> 00:52:31.300
on it as well he's on one of the songs I can't

00:52:31.300 --> 00:52:33.099
remember which one You can always tell his voice.

00:52:33.119 --> 00:52:35.599
I think he's on the hidden track, that handmade

00:52:35.599 --> 00:52:38.320
handgun. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's a chorus and that's

00:52:38.320 --> 00:52:40.739
fucking dynamite, man. Dynamite. I love a good

00:52:40.739 --> 00:52:59.039
hidden track. Astro Nodliff does that a lot of

00:52:59.039 --> 00:53:00.800
his songs he's got that he's got when he sings

00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:03.059
he's got that kind of weird growly kind of blues

00:53:03.059 --> 00:53:06.039
singer voice and his hooks are always like that

00:53:06.039 --> 00:53:09.139
always like that I don't know about you guys

00:53:09.139 --> 00:53:11.320
as well but as I said I thought the second half

00:53:11.320 --> 00:53:15.360
of it is still really good as a side B it's still

00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:17.960
strong but has fewer notable peaks I thought

00:53:17.960 --> 00:53:20.460
Terrorish was particularly good though that was

00:53:20.460 --> 00:53:22.480
the one that's in the back of my head that's

00:53:22.480 --> 00:53:39.349
yeah that one that one was the one that really

00:53:39.349 --> 00:53:41.809
lifted it again for me because it was just taking

00:53:41.809 --> 00:53:43.449
a slight dip I was getting a wee bit fatigued

00:53:43.449 --> 00:53:45.570
but it comes in and I think out of categories

00:53:45.570 --> 00:53:47.469
a wee bit I mean you could probably take it off

00:53:47.469 --> 00:53:48.650
the record and don't think you'd lose anything

00:53:48.650 --> 00:53:51.110
Optimist I really like because the beat which

00:53:51.110 --> 00:53:52.610
obviously he made himself with the cups it does

00:53:52.610 --> 00:53:54.929
it in the video if you see the video for it you

00:53:54.929 --> 00:53:56.389
see him actually using the cups and how he made

00:53:56.389 --> 00:53:57.849
the beat it's fucking really really cool plastic

00:53:57.849 --> 00:54:15.360
cups And it's just got a really nice kind of

00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:18.159
relaxing vibe about it. He's also got Optimus

00:54:18.159 --> 00:54:19.860
tattoos on his hands as well, which is quite

00:54:19.860 --> 00:54:24.980
cool. O -P -T -I -M -S -T. No, like a big sort

00:54:24.980 --> 00:54:27.239
of mural thing on his fingers. No, I'm just trying

00:54:27.239 --> 00:54:29.980
to work out how many letters that is. Terrence

00:54:29.980 --> 00:54:32.579
has got Jason Shiftchik. I don't know how you

00:54:32.579 --> 00:54:34.019
say his surname, but it was on Kid Dynamite.

00:54:34.139 --> 00:54:36.840
And then none more black. I hope we cover Kid

00:54:36.840 --> 00:54:38.920
Dynamite at some point, but following on from

00:54:38.920 --> 00:54:43.079
Greg from Bouncing Souls on Audition, it's another...

00:54:43.280 --> 00:54:44.920
indication of him being a punk singer and he'd

00:54:44.920 --> 00:54:47.239
do a hook and a song and that he's that massive

00:54:47.239 --> 00:54:50.400
gruff voice a good kind of canary in the coal

00:54:50.400 --> 00:54:52.139
mine for me with some of the records you guys

00:54:52.139 --> 00:54:54.019
give me especially the hip hop stuff is my flatmate

00:54:54.019 --> 00:54:57.420
he's he's a big hip hop fan but he was a little

00:54:57.420 --> 00:54:59.239
bit turned off by some of the kind of punk guest

00:54:59.239 --> 00:55:02.119
vocals in it not that he's I mean he's a guy

00:55:02.119 --> 00:55:04.420
that loves a good screamed vocal as well within

00:55:04.420 --> 00:55:07.000
its own context but I think he thought a couple

00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:10.440
of them were a little bit contrived on this especially

00:55:10.440 --> 00:55:13.090
later on overall he thought it was a great record

00:55:13.090 --> 00:55:14.750
he was really happy when I told him about it

00:55:14.750 --> 00:55:16.190
and he's been listening to it but he did think

00:55:16.190 --> 00:55:19.389
that the low points for him were a couple of

00:55:19.389 --> 00:55:21.489
moments where he was like he's sort of shoehorned

00:55:21.489 --> 00:55:23.789
in a punk singer there and I don't think it needed

00:55:23.789 --> 00:55:27.309
it so you know just as a caveat in case this

00:55:27.309 --> 00:55:30.710
seems like we're blowing excessive smoke up POS's

00:55:30.710 --> 00:55:33.010
ass I think I like it a lot I think it really

00:55:33.010 --> 00:55:35.809
elevates the song but you're a mark for that

00:55:35.809 --> 00:55:37.670
I'm a mark for everything so yeah I'm into that

00:55:37.670 --> 00:55:41.760
I don't know would there be a more interesting

00:55:41.760 --> 00:55:44.019
air quotes way of doing it if you want somebody

00:55:44.019 --> 00:55:45.079
to come in and do their thing you want them to

00:55:45.079 --> 00:55:47.440
come in and do it in the most accessible and

00:55:47.440 --> 00:55:49.360
kind of easiest fashion do you know get a homeless

00:55:49.360 --> 00:55:52.360
guy to do it what do you think about the last

00:55:52.360 --> 00:55:56.159
two songs I think it ends well like I like it

00:55:56.159 --> 00:55:58.960
I listen to this record a lot on vinyl actually

00:55:58.960 --> 00:56:04.199
so by that point I am like it just sort of fades

00:56:04.199 --> 00:56:08.500
out yeah I think it just overall I think it it

00:56:08.500 --> 00:56:10.880
works as a record I think it's a really nice

00:56:10.880 --> 00:56:13.940
package it's also I love the I fucking love the

00:56:13.940 --> 00:56:15.739
artwork as well oh yeah apparently the vinyl

00:56:15.739 --> 00:56:18.099
came out and it had like interchangeable yeah

00:56:18.099 --> 00:56:20.719
it's got like transparent bits in it so you could

00:56:20.719 --> 00:56:23.099
like basically have your own combination of like

00:56:23.099 --> 00:56:25.179
artwork in the front yeah it's a really nice

00:56:25.179 --> 00:56:28.400
record we can show what your particular combination

00:56:28.400 --> 00:56:30.900
of those is how many how many is it again it's

00:56:30.900 --> 00:56:32.980
like 28 and 8 or something like that is that

00:56:32.980 --> 00:56:35.940
right it's like oh I'm I can't remember I don't

00:56:35.940 --> 00:56:37.889
know I just you fiddle about with it yeah there's

00:56:37.889 --> 00:56:40.429
like I don't like to fiddle about with it because

00:56:40.429 --> 00:56:41.670
I don't want to ruin it there's like multiple

00:56:41.670 --> 00:56:44.670
colours and then multiple patterns yeah so there's

00:56:44.670 --> 00:56:46.449
probably I wonder what the actual combination

00:56:46.449 --> 00:56:51.510
like possible yeah somebody can maybe if if somebody

00:56:51.510 --> 00:56:53.750
can get as a figure on the possible number of

00:56:53.750 --> 00:56:56.949
iterations of cover combinations for the POS

00:56:56.949 --> 00:57:00.050
Never Better album we'll think of a prize or

00:57:00.050 --> 00:57:01.650
we'll at least give you a shout out for being

00:57:01.650 --> 00:57:05.400
a some kind of Smart ass. But yeah, it's a really

00:57:05.400 --> 00:57:07.760
innovative idea. So David, maybe send us a picture

00:57:07.760 --> 00:57:10.380
of your personal combination. Why don't I do

00:57:10.380 --> 00:57:14.019
a little video for the socials? Yes, put that

00:57:14.019 --> 00:57:17.380
on us. I'll do that. So before we get to the

00:57:17.380 --> 00:57:20.429
end... Let's do the new section, which I'm introducing

00:57:20.429 --> 00:57:22.789
in this fucking episode. Oh yeah, I'm excited

00:57:22.789 --> 00:57:26.130
for this. He's floated this, but David and I

00:57:26.130 --> 00:57:28.590
don't really know what it is. You've got a jingle

00:57:28.590 --> 00:57:30.730
for it. I've got a jingle for it. I will record

00:57:30.730 --> 00:57:32.929
it. Yeah, so the jingle would go now. Right here.

00:57:38.739 --> 00:57:40.780
Right, it's going to go right in there. I hope

00:57:40.780 --> 00:57:43.039
that jingle was good. No, that jingle was good.

00:57:43.059 --> 00:57:45.039
That jingle was amazing. Great jingle. I just

00:57:45.039 --> 00:57:48.059
edited it. It was brilliant, man, honestly. So,

00:57:48.059 --> 00:57:49.920
it's basically, I'm calling it the Foo Fighters

00:57:49.920 --> 00:57:51.519
Nexus, which is basically a six -degree separation

00:57:51.519 --> 00:57:54.000
for Dave Grohl. So, take Kevin Bacon out and

00:57:54.000 --> 00:57:57.059
put in the Foo Fighters. Yeah, mostly Dave Grohl.

00:57:57.340 --> 00:57:59.260
So, how many jumps did it take to get, like,

00:57:59.280 --> 00:58:01.039
it's come up quite a lot on this podcast that

00:58:01.039 --> 00:58:03.059
Dave Grohl or the Foo Fighters seem to be our

00:58:03.059 --> 00:58:05.380
current team in a lot of the stuff we do. so

00:58:05.380 --> 00:58:07.380
I'm now wondering every single record that we

00:58:07.380 --> 00:58:09.860
do should we perhaps find out how many jumps

00:58:09.860 --> 00:58:11.760
it takes to get from that artist to Dave Grohl

00:58:11.760 --> 00:58:15.440
okay I'm going to go out on a limb and say two

00:58:15.440 --> 00:58:18.599
for this one because he's in punk bands I'm going

00:58:18.599 --> 00:58:23.599
to say three I think I'm three yeah that's true

00:58:23.599 --> 00:58:28.380
alright okay there are actually two combinations

00:58:28.380 --> 00:58:30.400
for this and they're both basically one jump

00:58:30.760 --> 00:58:32.639
Maybe two jumps at the most. We'll figure it

00:58:32.639 --> 00:58:33.840
out. You can tell me if it's one or two. He's

00:58:33.840 --> 00:58:37.119
in Foo Fighters. That is one jump. No, one jump

00:58:37.119 --> 00:58:40.280
would be like point A, point B is one jump. We

00:58:40.280 --> 00:58:41.760
need to agree on the rules before this becomes

00:58:41.760 --> 00:58:44.219
a bit. Point A to point B is one jump. Point

00:58:44.219 --> 00:58:46.059
B to point C is two jumps and so on. Does that

00:58:46.059 --> 00:58:48.800
make sense? Let's hear and we'll decide how many

00:58:48.800 --> 00:58:52.219
jumps it was. So the first one is Foo Fighters

00:58:52.219 --> 00:58:56.400
released a song on a 7 inch box set for Planned

00:58:56.400 --> 00:58:58.719
Parenthood which Bon Iver also released a song

00:58:58.719 --> 00:59:02.349
on and Bon Iver Justin Vernon not only worked

00:59:02.349 --> 00:59:04.969
with POS and gangs but he also has a guest vocal

00:59:04.969 --> 00:59:08.110
on We Don't Even Live Here that's two jumps that's

00:59:08.110 --> 00:59:10.070
two that's two because your Bon Iver is your

00:59:10.070 --> 00:59:12.570
middle your island there that you're hopping

00:59:12.570 --> 00:59:14.130
along the other one's probably two jumps as well

00:59:14.130 --> 00:59:16.510
the other one would be Dave Grohl dated Kathleen

00:59:16.510 --> 00:59:19.250
Hanna and Kathleen Hanna is on Chill Dummy that's

00:59:19.250 --> 00:59:21.130
two jumps that's two jumps one jump would be

00:59:21.130 --> 00:59:25.429
Dave Grohl dated POS which we're not ruling out

00:59:25.429 --> 00:59:28.550
at this point so two jumps that's two jumps to

00:59:28.550 --> 00:59:36.420
get to two jumps this may be the template for

00:59:36.420 --> 00:59:38.739
some successful TV quiz show at some point in

00:59:38.739 --> 00:59:40.280
the future because they're scraping the barrel

00:59:40.280 --> 00:59:43.519
already I've got an idea for another thing before

00:59:43.519 --> 00:59:48.780
this goes out done so that's our six degrees

00:59:48.780 --> 00:59:51.900
of Dave Grohl two degrees of Dave Grohl but yeah

00:59:51.900 --> 00:59:54.699
the Foo Fighters Nexus well done thanks that

00:59:54.699 --> 00:59:56.880
was enjoyable jingle again or no jingle again

00:59:56.880 --> 00:59:59.219
there's an ending you'll get it put it in here

00:59:59.219 --> 01:00:08.039
wow that ending was good it's going to be worth

01:00:08.039 --> 01:00:10.420
it hopefully yeah well I think all three of us

01:00:10.420 --> 01:00:12.219
agree that this is going to go in yeah I think

01:00:12.219 --> 01:00:15.679
it meets all the criteria for Unsung it's a good

01:00:15.679 --> 01:00:18.659
record and it's good too it's probably his best

01:00:18.659 --> 01:00:22.119
if not his like most unique and standout record

01:00:22.119 --> 01:00:24.920
yeah and he's an artist in the movie he doesn't

01:00:24.920 --> 01:00:27.179
have the recognition that he should have I think

01:00:27.179 --> 01:00:30.980
this record came out at a time that, you know,

01:00:30.980 --> 01:00:32.860
if it had come out a bit later or a bit earlier,

01:00:32.900 --> 01:00:35.539
I think it would have got more traction as well.

01:00:35.699 --> 01:00:37.199
Yeah, I've no idea what this actually means,

01:00:37.320 --> 01:00:39.199
but if more hip -hop was like this, I would listen

01:00:39.199 --> 01:00:41.559
to hip -hop. It just means you don't try hard

01:00:41.559 --> 01:00:43.559
enough. That was mad. That might be what this

01:00:43.559 --> 01:00:45.880
means. That was kind of, when I first heard this,

01:00:45.900 --> 01:00:47.760
I kind of thought, I like hip -hop, but I was

01:00:47.760 --> 01:00:49.619
like, I wish more had this kind of vibe to it.

01:00:49.739 --> 01:00:52.019
Yeah. But like Dave says, maybe just not trying

01:00:52.019 --> 01:00:55.679
hard enough. That's a good shit. Great. So it

01:00:55.679 --> 01:00:58.639
goes in then? Mm -hmm. Go and vote. Please, on

01:00:58.639 --> 01:01:01.840
the Facebook page. Yeah, click yes. Jobs are

01:01:01.840 --> 01:01:02.000
good.