Brian Mueller: Welcome to Follow Me to the MROP, a podcast dedicated to the journey of the masculine soul.
Brian Mueller: and the transformative power of initiation.
Brian Mueller: My name is Brian Mueller.
Brian Mueller: I live in suburban Dayton, Ohio, and I made my rites at Pilgrim Park in Illinois in twenty fourteen.
Brian Mueller: I'm your host, and in each episode of our show I'll sit down with one man who has made his rites
Brian Mueller: and I'll invite him to tell his story.
Brian Mueller: This won't be an abstract explanation or a theological lecture, just a real conversation about what it was like to cross that threshold at the rites and what changed afterwards.
Brian Mueller: This podcast is truly a labor of love, inspired by my own transformative experience at the men's rites of passage and my ongoing commitment to the men of the Illumined community.
Brian Mueller: If this show resonates with you
Brian Mueller: Please take a moment to rate, review, and share it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.
Brian Mueller: You can find all of those links at M-R-O-P Talk dot
Brian Mueller: com.
Brian Mueller: To support my work, you can explore my published poetry volumes at Brian Mueller dot
Brian Mueller: com.
Brian Mueller: I also work closely with Men and Illuman to share and teach the practice of presence.
Brian Mueller: You can learn more about that at choosing presence dot
Brian Mueller: org.
Brian Mueller: Before we go any further, I want you to know that this is an encore episode.
Brian Mueller: The week of August 10th I'll be in Illinois at the men's rites of passage, standing with the men who are crossing that threshold this year, and I'll be away through the seventeenth.
Brian Mueller: Rather than let the feet go quiet, I wanted to bring back two conversations that mean a great deal to me, and both of them are with men who are giving themselves to these very rites.
Brian Mueller: Today you'll hear Episode one, My Conversation with Chester Trocha, the very first man to sit down with me on the show.
Brian Mueller: Chester is serving as the MROP coordinator for the Illinois rites this year.
Brian Mueller: Then, next Monday, august seventeenth, I'll re release Episode four with Bob Colaresi.
Brian Mueller: Bob is the founder emeritus of these rites, and this year he serves as the weaver for the returning initiated men.
Brian Mueller: These two men are dear to me.
Brian Mueller: and I respect them deeply.
Brian Mueller: Each of them has given themself, over many years, to walking alongside other men on the spiritual journey, and to building real community within Illuman.
Brian Mueller: If you heard these conversations before, listen again.
Brian Mueller: I think you'll hear something you missed the first time.
Brian Mueller: And if they're new to you, you're in for a gift.
Brian Mueller: New episodes return on Monday, august twenty fourth, and there is good work ahead.
Brian Mueller: Conversations coming with Joe Grilliot from Ohio, Matthew Burch from Oklahoma.
Brian Mueller: and Byron McMillan from New Mexico.
Brian Mueller: Now the Men's Rites of Passage, or MROP, is an experience designed to help men move from the first half of life into the second, shifting from a focus on ego and achievement
Brian Mueller: to a life of meaning and soul.
Brian Mueller: On this show we don't just talk about the rites in theory, we talk to the men who have walked the path.
Brian Mueller: Today I'm joined by a man who has made his rites, and we're going to hear exactly what that journey looked like for him.
Brian Mueller: My guest today is Chester Trocha.
Brian Mueller: Brother, I'm really glad you're here.
Brian Mueller: Thanks for making the time and being willing to tell your story.
Chester Trocha: Brian, it's great to be here.
Brian Mueller: Chester, tell us where you're from and how you spend your time these days.
Chester Trocha: Yeah, actually, I'm from Hawthorne Woods, Illinois, which is about an hour northwest of Chicago.
Chester Trocha: And I've been retired for the last four years.
Chester Trocha: Right now, I'm a co-convener for Illuman of Illinois.
Chester Trocha: I've been doing that for the last three years and also involved in my church as well.
Chester Trocha: I've got four kids and happily married.
Brian Mueller: Great.
Brian Mueller: Now let's dive in and talk a little bit about the men's rites of passage.
Brian Mueller: The MROP is a unique experience.
Brian Mueller: It's not a retreat or a workshop.
Brian Mueller: It's an initiation.
Brian Mueller: Many men arrive at the rites at a crossroads in their lives looking for something they can't quite name.
Brian Mueller: But before we dive into the why and the how, let's start here from the beginning.
Brian Mueller: So, can you tell us where you made your rites?
Chester Trocha: Yeah, I made my rides in Pilgrim Park up in Princeton, Illinois.
Chester Trocha: It's about two hours straight west of Chicago, along, I think it's Highway 88, and made it in 2012.
Chester Trocha: It's been 13, yeah, 13, 14 years since I've done it.
Brian Mueller: It has been a while.
Brian Mueller: Now, when you think back to that weekend, you know, what's the first image or feeling that comes to mind?
Chester Trocha: Yeah, it's interesting.
Chester Trocha: I've been thinking about it since we agreed to do this.
Chester Trocha: Really, the first one is a feeling of connection, connection with myself.
Chester Trocha: There's a connection with nature, connection with other men.
Chester Trocha: And then Pilgrim Park is just a beautiful and serene location.
Chester Trocha: It's full of trees.
Chester Trocha: It's got open space.
Chester Trocha: It's got a creek running through it.
Chester Trocha: And it holds a special place in my heart, as it does for a lot of Illuman, because we've done a lot of MROPs there.
Brian Mueller: Sounds like an oasis in the middle of Illinois.
Brian Mueller: Actually, it does.
Brian Mueller: Great.
Brian Mueller: So in general terms, what was the weekend like for you?
Brian Mueller: Just kind of an overall picture.
Chester Trocha: Right.
Chester Trocha: The only way I can really describe that is it was an incredible experience.
Chester Trocha: And it's one that I've been carrying with me since I've been there, to be honest with you.
Brian Mueller: Oh, that's great.
Brian Mueller: Now, who is the Weaver?
Brian Mueller: Well, the Weaver, for those who don't know, the Weaver is kind of the primary guide or the man that kind of leads everyone through the rites.
Brian Mueller: And so you can tell us who your weaver was and then about how many men were at the rites.
Chester Trocha: Yeah, our weaver was Belden Lane, a lot of people in Illuman and the
Chester Trocha: Center of Action and Contemplation, know Belden.
Chester Trocha: He's an incredible wisdom elder.
Chester Trocha: He's focused on nature.
Chester Trocha: He's an authentic
Chester Trocha: And fantastic storyteller.
Chester Trocha: And so he was our weaver.
Chester Trocha: He was absolutely incredible.
Brian Mueller: Yeah, Belden is great.
Brian Mueller: And how many men were with you?
Chester Trocha: Yeah, we had probably about 35 to 40 men from all over the United States.
Chester Trocha: We had men from Canada as well.
Chester Trocha: And what was interesting, it was mostly a mix of
Chester Trocha: Ordinary men from different walks of life.
Chester Trocha: We have men from their 40s all the way to their mid-70s.
Chester Trocha: I remember when in our group, we had a Mennonite minister, we had a Franciscan friar.
Chester Trocha: A pastor from a church in Canada, and it was fantastic because when you're there, everybody's dressed in just casual attire, jeans and t-shirts, and it really does it.
Chester Trocha: You're not wearing your garb or anything else.
Chester Trocha: And it doesn't matter where you come from.
Chester Trocha: Everybody's on an equal playing field when they're there.
Brian Mueller: All right.
Brian Mueller: Now, without saying anything that you might consider confidential or that you'd like to hold close, what were a few moments or elements from the rites that kind of stood out to you?
Chester Trocha: A big one for me was the extensive use of rituals.
Chester Trocha: All of us have been exposed to rituals in our churches.
Chester Trocha: We go through
Chester Trocha: But in that environment, the rituals that we used were extremely powerful.
Chester Trocha: And at the time, I felt that they spoke.
Chester Trocha: Directly to me or directly to my soul.
Chester Trocha: And I've never experienced rituals like that before.
Chester Trocha: And they were very deliberate and very moving and designed to.
Chester Trocha: Deliver a message at that time.
Chester Trocha: And that was a big takeaway for me.
Chester Trocha: I've never been exposed to rituals.
Chester Trocha: And then the other part of it is just prior to this, I never had much time myself to spend time in nature.
Chester Trocha: And just allowing us, and especially with Belden, being a man of nature and wilderness, the opportunity to spend time alone, to really reflect on nature was a big takeaway for me as well.
Brian Mueller: That sounds great.
Brian Mueller: Now you've had many years, more than a decade now, to kind of reflect, or maybe it was something really in the moment, but was there one thing that impacted you strongest?
Brian Mueller: Is it something that you've reflected on and you know it, or was it right there in the moment it hits you?
Chester Trocha: Yeah.
Chester Trocha: I mean, the big one for me was the opportunity to spend time in small groups.
Chester Trocha: We call them councils, right?
Chester Trocha: And what we found is we end up in the small group, five or six men, and you're with that group the entire time.
Chester Trocha: And immediately, you know, you're in the safe environment, and men just open up.
Chester Trocha: And I come from the corporate world and men don't normally do that, you know, sharing each other's stories and
Chester Trocha: and life's challenges.
Chester Trocha: And it's amazing when you're in a safe environment how people drop their guards and they're open to share heart to heart.
Chester Trocha: And, you know, and from that, I realized, you know, I'm not alone in my journey.
Chester Trocha: I'm sharing my journey with other men, you know, going through the same type of thing from a different environment.
Brian Mueller: That's great.
Brian Mueller: I hope this doesn't sound sort of redundant, but is there a particular memory or something that you're willing to share that captures a broad, broad perspective of what the rites have meant for you in the years since?
Chester Trocha: Yeah, yeah, there's one that you bring it up.
Chester Trocha: I remember when the MROP was over and most men had left.
Chester Trocha: And I sat down by a pond and I just started sobbing.
Chester Trocha: You know, I went through this incredible experience, and I'm just sitting there on a bench.
Chester Trocha: Nobody's there.
Chester Trocha: It's absolutely quiet.
Chester Trocha: And something welled up inside me.
Chester Trocha: And I don't know if it was happiness.
Chester Trocha: I don't know if it was sadness.
Chester Trocha: I don't know if it was relief.
Chester Trocha: I don't know if it was a letdown.
Chester Trocha: But there's the experience of the MROP touched something deep in my soul, in my heart, that I never experienced before.
Chester Trocha: And I just sat there for a long time.
Chester Trocha: And deep contemplation about what I just experienced and what I just went through.
Chester Trocha: So, and I know, you know, then I'm sitting there going, no, at the end,
Chester Trocha: You know, I was appreciative of my life and had a renewed sense of God's presence, that there is something much larger at work.
Chester Trocha: In what I had just gone through.
Brian Mueller: So it's hard to rush back to your normal life after that, isn't it?
Brian Mueller: Absolutely.
Brian Mueller: Let's go back a little bit to the beginning.
Brian Mueller: And were there any special circumstances or things happening in your life at the time that you decided to participate?
Chester Trocha: Yeah, for me, I mentioned I was in the corporate world in my mid-50s, married.
Chester Trocha: A couple of my kids were in college, the other two were in high school, kind of at that stage where kids are starting to leave.
Chester Trocha: Working full time, and I was caught up in the rat race of the corporate world, to be honest with you.
Chester Trocha: And I had no time for myself, no time to really step back and reflect.
Chester Trocha: And I felt that there had to be something more to life, you know.
Chester Trocha: And I was introduced to Richard Rohr three years earlier when he was in the area speaking.
Chester Trocha: And I had a friend of mine tell me about him and really connected with his message.
Chester Trocha: And I read his book, Adam's Return.
Chester Trocha: He's got a book on initiation.
Chester Trocha: And I was intrigued by his thoughts around male initiation and the need to shed baggage that holds you back as you enter the second half of life.
Chester Trocha: In order to be a more generative man.
Chester Trocha: And that was of interest for me.
Chester Trocha: So.
Brian Mueller: Yeah.
Brian Mueller: That makes sense.
Brian Mueller: Is there, did you have
Brian Mueller: Do you have like a particular goal or something that you were anticipating?
Brian Mueller: Or was there something that you were fearing as you were heading into the rites?
Brian Mueller: Either something you were hoping to get out of it explicitly or something that was very frightening to you before you got there.
Chester Trocha: Yeah, yeah.
Chester Trocha: I was just… I had um..
Chester Trocha: Back a few years before that, I had just started on my spiritual path.
Chester Trocha: My mother had died, and she was really spiritual.
Chester Trocha: And something just triggered in me.
Chester Trocha: And so it's just really a continuation of my path.
Chester Trocha: And as I, you know, studied.
Chester Trocha: The MROP, I had no idea what to expect.
Chester Trocha: I knew that Richard Ruhr was the original designer of it, and so that brought a lot to the table for me.
Chester Trocha: And I remember filling out the application and getting accepted.
Chester Trocha: And it was a big unknown.
Chester Trocha: It's like, oh, okay, I guess I'm going, right.
Chester Trocha: And I was a bit anxious because it's a big commitment.
Chester Trocha: I mean, basically, you're asking for five days, four nights, right?
Chester Trocha: It's not just a weekend, you know.
Chester Trocha: And I had never previously committed to anything like that.
Chester Trocha: And so I went in with an open mind, you know, just hoping to reflect on my life and leave with some direction.
Chester Trocha: You know, how can I be better with a better man and my wife?
Chester Trocha: My family, my kids, those around me.
Chester Trocha: You know, I'm going to be retiring in a few years.
Chester Trocha: What do I want to do with my community?
Chester Trocha: And the intent was to hopefully provide a better focus on what's important and how it can approach life in general, I guess, is what I was looking at.
Brian Mueller: Yeah, you'd said earlier that, like, when the rites ended, you had this moment where you.
Brian Mueller: sat by yourself next to some some body of water and you let out these emotions and and actually some tears came as well.
Brian Mueller: But what was it like when you got home?
Brian Mueller: You know?
Chester Trocha: Well, it's interesting.
Chester Trocha: Actually, my story after that is I left, right, and everybody was gone.
Chester Trocha: And I'm driving home.
Chester Trocha: Now, if you're Pilgrim Park's kind of out in the middle of nowhere, right?
Chester Trocha: It's on the highway.
Chester Trocha: So about 15 minutes into the ride.
Chester Trocha: I remember stopping at a Starbucks.
Chester Trocha: There's a Starbucks on the first exit.
Chester Trocha: And so I need some coffee.
Chester Trocha: And I walked.
Chester Trocha: And I felt like incredible.
Chester Trocha: I get out of the car.
Chester Trocha: I mean, incredibly happy and joyous.
Chester Trocha: It's like, man, yeah, I just felt like, you know, and it was hard to contain my joy.
Chester Trocha: Guy, I'm walking to the Starbucks, and this old guy was walking behind me, and I held the door open for him and greeted him, you know, really joyously.
Chester Trocha: And I bought him a cup of coffee.
Chester Trocha: It's like, you know, it's like, God, he couldn't contain it.
Chester Trocha: And then I got in my car.
Chester Trocha: And then after that, it was a two-hour drive.
Chester Trocha: And my recommendation: you know, if you have an opportunity to reflect after the MROP, you know, do so because.
Chester Trocha: Spent a couple hours just in deep reflection on what I experienced.
Chester Trocha: And then, you know, had to go to work the next morning, first thing Monday morning, right?
Chester Trocha: And jump back in my routine.
Chester Trocha: And it just felt foreign and disappointing.
Chester Trocha: And it's like, ah, after all I had gone through with all the internal work that I was doing.
Chester Trocha: to jump right back into my job with was really challenging.
Brian Mueller: So yeah, I can imagine.
Brian Mueller: I know for a lot of guys, going through the rites is really is crossing a threshold, but
Brian Mueller: You know, from talking to men over the years, some feel that impact immediately.
Brian Mueller: Others, it's a bit of a delay.
Brian Mueller: It takes some time to really settle in what that experience was all about and what it's meant to them.
Brian Mueller: You know, how did you how was that for you?
Brian Mueller: And how has it, you know, impacted your spiritual journey since that time?
Chester Trocha: Yeah, so what's changed?
Chester Trocha: Yeah, what's changed?
Chester Trocha: Yeah, so first of all, in this little journey, as I said, you go through the rites.
Chester Trocha: And you got to go and get right back into your life.
Chester Trocha: You know what I mean?
Chester Trocha: It's like, ah, you know what I mean?
Chester Trocha: So it took me a long time to unpack everything that I'd gone through.
Chester Trocha: You know, it's not an immediate thing.
Chester Trocha: You just went through this.
Chester Trocha: For a lot of men, a life-changing moment, right, or period of time.
Chester Trocha: And so to be thrust back into a regular routine was challenging.
Chester Trocha: And but it made, you know, over time, you know, as I was reflecting, right, it made me reflect on some of the things I'm doing, the way I'm reacting to things.
Chester Trocha: And really focusing on what was truly important.
Chester Trocha: Prior to it, it was all about productivity and getting things done and really starting to spend more time
Chester Trocha: With people and really, really listening to them.
Chester Trocha: And it certainly accelerated my desire to continue to grow spiritually.
Chester Trocha: I mean, it just triggered something in me.
Chester Trocha: And also, what I realized over time, I started connecting with nature much more than I ever did in the past.
Chester Trocha: It really triggered something there, too.
Brian Mueller: Great.
Brian Mueller: Now, um you know, uh not that you did this or anybody needs to do this, but when you made the decision to attend the rites, I don't know if you told your you know and certainly you had that conversation with your wife, but I don't know if you talked to friends or other family members.
Brian Mueller: How did they react to your decision to go to the rites?
Chester Trocha: Yeah.
Chester Trocha: So, I mean, my wife has always been extremely supportive of my journey, and that's critical to anybody going through it, right?
Chester Trocha: I mean,
Chester Trocha: Yeah.
Chester Trocha: So she was really supportive.
Chester Trocha: A close friend of mine at our church was actually the person that talked me into going to the MROP.
Chester Trocha: And so he was he encouraged me to attend.
Chester Trocha: And actually, over about three, four years, he wanted me to do it.
Chester Trocha: And I just wasn't ready.
Chester Trocha: You know what I mean?
Chester Trocha: But he was supportive.
Chester Trocha: And then what I found, I didn't really discuss it with anybody else.
Chester Trocha: My kids, they asked me, but it's but the
Chester Trocha: It's hard to explain to somebody what you've been through.
Chester Trocha: So they're supportive and but superficially supportive, to be a good way to put it.
Brian Mueller: You know, how did those afterwards?
Brian Mueller: So you come back from the rites.
Brian Mueller: Yeah.
Brian Mueller: Of course, a lot of those people want to know what it was like.
Brian Mueller: You know, what kind of conversations did you have about the rites?
Brian Mueller: Did those conversations, you know, change if you know?
Chester Trocha: Yeah, yeah, it's interesting.
Chester Trocha: So the rites are impossible to explain to somebody because it's so internal.
Chester Trocha: It's so.
Chester Trocha: you know, personal.
Chester Trocha: And I came home and tried to explain it to my wife and she listened.
Chester Trocha: But it's like I said, it's so personal, it's really difficult to truly reflect what happened.
Chester Trocha: And I realized that unless you've been through it, you're not going to understand it.
Chester Trocha: So as time went on, I just kept it to myself.
Chester Trocha: I went to retreat.
Chester Trocha: You know what I mean?
Chester Trocha: I just kind of kept it there because it's hard to share.
Chester Trocha: It really is.
Chester Trocha: And I did share my experience with a friend who encouraged me to attend, and that was really important because he understood it.
Chester Trocha: And I shared things with him heart to heart.
Chester Trocha: And that's important as well.
Chester Trocha: So, but within that, I didn't really believe that there were any immediate changes as we talked about.
Chester Trocha: And I just find myself being much more reflective.
Brian Mueller: So, right.
Brian Mueller: Yeah, it's kind of a slow burn sometimes for a lot of men.
Chester Trocha: Yeah.
Chester Trocha: You know, now a good way to put that is, you know, it's kind of ignited a slow spiritual churning in me, you know, would be a good way to put it.
Brian Mueller: So, yeah.
Brian Mueller: Now, it's been nearly a decade and a half since you made your rites in 2012, and you've had a lot of time processing, and you've certainly gotten further involved in the men's community Illuman that surrounds the rites of passage.
Brian Mueller: But what would you say has changed in your life, sort of from either from a practical standpoint, a relational standpoint, even a spiritual standpoint since you're right?
Chester Trocha: Yeah, yeah.
Chester Trocha: Yeah.
Chester Trocha: So during the MROP, we start each day with a morning sit, you know, we call centering prayer.
Chester Trocha: And that really resonated with me.
Chester Trocha: We were doing some of that, but if you're doing it for five days in a row.
Chester Trocha: It really resonated with me just to sit in silence and sit in silence in the proximity or the relationship with God.
Chester Trocha: And I started a daily centering practice and been doing that ever since.
Chester Trocha: I've been doing that for many years now.
Chester Trocha: And as a result, I find that I'm much more intentional when I connect with people and much.
Chester Trocha: More in tune with nature and my surroundings.
Chester Trocha: And I still have this yearning, right?
Chester Trocha: Spiritual yearning.
Chester Trocha: And that's an important part of my life.
Chester Trocha: A couple years ago, I attended the Living School at the Center of Action and Contemplation.
Chester Trocha: So it's a year-long program.
Chester Trocha: In fact, Belden Lane was part of that as well.
Chester Trocha: And my journey is just a continuous process.
Chester Trocha: I'm engaged with Illuman of Illinois and engaged in my church, you know, kind of a parallel path there.
Chester Trocha: And it's something that'll never stop.
Chester Trocha: So it's just something that's part of me that I will do forever.
Brian Mueller: Well, and I think it's worth mentioning that you've now been involved in planning and helping deliver the rites logistically.
Chester Trocha: Yes, I have.
Chester Trocha: Yeah.
Chester Trocha: And it's amazing.
Chester Trocha: It's just as amazing to be on the other side of it, Brian, and you've experienced that as well, as it is to go through it.
Chester Trocha: It really is.
Chester Trocha: I get so much out of it.
Brian Mueller: Yeah, I echo that.
Brian Mueller: So now that you've been through this rites and you've been involved with men's work for many years, how has your understanding of masculinity, initiation, and sort of our purpose in life shifted over time?
Chester Trocha: Yeah, boy.
Chester Trocha: You know, I was raised in a world where a guy needs to be tough, you know, in macho.
Chester Trocha: I worked in the steel mills in Gary, you know, a tough guy.
Chester Trocha: And we see that, you know, really.
Chester Trocha: And also as I was going through the corporate world, man, it's all eagle.
Chester Trocha: You know, you got to be tough to kind of maintain, to grow, that type of thing.
Chester Trocha: And that's fine, you know, as we need to build our ego structure and containers early on.
Chester Trocha: But we need something different as we approach the second half of life.
Chester Trocha: And those superficial containers that define ourselves don't work anymore.
Chester Trocha: Yeah.
Chester Trocha: And to me, just as I'm going through this and I've seen been leading the M or being involved in the MROP.
Chester Trocha: You know, men, as men, we need to be shaken up sometimes, you know, to make us analyze our lives, you know, and realize that there's something greater out there, there's a power greater than us that we need to lean on.
Chester Trocha: And life's now all about us.
Chester Trocha: And then sometimes it's the loss of a loved one or a personal crisis, or, you know, or for me, it's simply a realization that there's more to life.
Chester Trocha: And
Chester Trocha: And we're looking for something more.
Chester Trocha: So, um, yeah.
Chester Trocha: So that's what the men's rites of passage did for me.
Chester Trocha: Um
Chester Trocha: You know, when you lift the veil and approach life, and you look at the world differently after that.
Brian Mueller: So
Brian Mueller: You know, we're hoping to have we're having this conversation with the hope that men will be listening to this, the ones that are considering, you know, that are going through something in their life or considering.
Brian Mueller: Having some spiritual questioning or want a deeper experience in life or considering participating in the rites, but they're wanting to get more information, they're just not sure.
Brian Mueller: So, what kind of counsel would you offer?
Brian Mueller: A man who's trying to discern whether or not to participate in the rites this year.
Chester Trocha: Yeah.
Chester Trocha: I mean, so first of all, I would pray on it, right?
Chester Trocha: I mean, basically, it's not something you just jump into, it's something that triggers in you, and there's a yearning to do that.
Chester Trocha: There is a book that Richard Rohroth wrote called Adam's Return, and that gives a good summary of the initiation process and what to possibly expect there.
Chester Trocha: And the other thought is to reach out to other men who've gone through the MROP.
Chester Trocha: And if you're not exposed to them, you know, we've got the Illuman website, the Illuminative Illinois website.
Chester Trocha: Website, you know, www.
Chester Trocha: Illuman.
Chester Trocha: org.
Chester Trocha: We've got information on the MROP there.
Chester Trocha: And if they're interested, and again, I'm
Chester Trocha: In Illuman of Illinois, get on our website and there's an opportunity to connect with us, and some one of us will get back with you to talk about it some more.
Brian Mueller: Absolutely.
Brian Mueller: And there's the Illuman community at community dot
Brian Mueller: Illuman dot
Brian Mueller: org, which is kind of like our Yeah, I left that out.
Chester Trocha: And that's really big too, to join that community.
Chester Trocha: And anybody can do that.
Chester Trocha: You don't have to be part of Illuman to join that community.
Brian Mueller: So yeah, and I would say I would just add, too, that if men are interested, they can join you and me this year at the Illinois Writes, which is going to be August 12th through the 16th.
Brian Mueller: We'll be there to help support them through it.
Brian Mueller: And if they want to reach out with questions, they certainly can do that ahead of time.
Brian Mueller: So, you know,
Chester Trocha: Well, and again, if you're interested in that, you know, get on Illuman Illinois dot
Chester Trocha: org or Illuman dot
Chester Trocha: org.
Chester Trocha: And there's a lot of information.
Chester Trocha: There's a video from Richard Rohr.
Chester Trocha: There's a lot of information on MROP.
Chester Trocha: And we would encourage you to join us.
Brian Mueller: Yeah, and let me just the last thing I would might add, and if you have anything to add about this, is you can you can overanalyze this decision.
Brian Mueller: You know, you're not going to have all the answers.
Brian Mueller: It's good to go in with an open mind and a bit of an open heart to what's going to happen.
Brian Mueller: It's certainly no secret.
Brian Mueller: It's not a secret of rites or confidential in any big way.
Brian Mueller: But to know everything that's going to happen or go on is not necessarily helpful, is it?
Chester Trocha: No, it's not at all.
Chester Trocha: No, no, actually, it's all about mystery, to be honest with you.
Chester Trocha: Yeah, yeah.
Chester Trocha: You know, so it is.
Chester Trocha: Just go in with an open heart.
Chester Trocha: Just go in with an open heart and an open mind.
Chester Trocha: And just know that you will take something out of it without a doubt.
Brian Mueller: Well, Chester, brother, thank you so much.
Brian Mueller: Relia, we appreciate your honesty, your courage and for letting us in, giving us a window on your experience of the MROP.
Chester Trocha: Well, thank you so much.
Chester Trocha: Like I said, it's been so important to me, and I do encourage other men to do it.
Chester Trocha: All right.
Chester Trocha: We'll see you at Pilgrim Park.
Brian Mueller: All right.
Brian Mueller: Thank you.
Brian Mueller: For those listening who are now feeling a tug in their own soul and are curious to learn more, allow me to share a bit about the history of these rites.
Brian Mueller: The Men's rites of Passage was originally developed by Father Richard Rohr, and was first offered at Ghost Ranch, New Mexico, in nineteen ninety six.
Brian Mueller: While it was supported for many years by the Center for Action and Contemplation, since twenty twelve a Illuman has been the steward of this work.
Brian Mueller: Preserving and adapting the rites for men all over the world.
Brian Mueller: To learn more about the history and the theology behind this work, I highly recommend reading Adam's Return by Richard Rohr.
Brian Mueller: If you are ready to make your rites, you can find details and registration information at Illuman dot
Brian Mueller: org.
Brian Mueller: Slash MROP or Illuman dot
Brian Mueller: org slash events.
Brian Mueller: Finally, if you enjoyed this podcast, don't forget to share it with a friend.
Brian Mueller: You can find all our episodes and subscribe in your favorite podcast app at m-r-o-p talk dot com, and you can visit me at Brian's Poems dot com or Brian Mueller dot com.
Brian Mueller: Thank you for listening to follow me to the MROP.
Brian Mueller: Until next time, brothers, stay present.