Brian Mueller: Welcome to Follow Me to the MROP, a podcast dedicated to the journey of the masculine soul and the transformative power of initiation.
Brian Mueller: My name is Brian Mueller.
Brian Mueller: I live in suburban Dayton, Ohio, and I made my rites at Pilgrim Park in Illinois in twenty fourteen.
Brian Mueller: I'm your host, and in each episode of our show I'll sit down with one man who has made his rites, and I'll invite him to tell his story.
Brian Mueller: This won't be an abstract explanation or a theological lecture, just a real conversation about what it was like to cross that threshold at the Rites and what changed afterward.
Brian Mueller: Before we begin, a quick word of gratitude.
Brian Mueller: This podcast is brought to you by Choosing Presence.
Brian Mueller: We believe that the greatest gift a man can give his community is his own presence.
Brian Mueller: In a world of constant distraction, choosing presence provides the tools to help you stay grounded in the now.
Brian Mueller: If you'd like an easy way to begin learning about the practice of presence, you can download the free Practicing Presence app at choosingpresence dot
Brian Mueller: org slash app.
Brian Mueller: Now the Men's Rites of Passage, or MROP, is an experience designed to help men move from the first half of life into the second, shifting from a focus on ego and achievement to a life of meaning and soul.
Brian Mueller: On this show, we just don't talk about the rites in theory, we talk to the men who have walked the path.
Brian Mueller: Today we are joined by a man who has made his rites, and we're going to hear exactly what that journey looked like for him.
Brian Mueller: My guest today is Bill McElroy.
Brian Mueller: Brother, I'm really glad you're here.
Brian Mueller: Thanks for making the time and for being willing to share your story.
Bill McElroy: Thanks, Brian.
Bill McElroy: It's great to be here.
Bill McElroy: And thank you for doing this work, too, to just get our personal experience of the men's rites of passage.
Brian Mueller: Bill, tell us where you're from and how you spend your time these days.
Bill McElroy: Well, I live in Wayne, Illinois, which is a small town outside of Chicago, about 50 miles west of Chicago.
Bill McElroy: And yeah, these I'm retired.
Bill McElroy: That was my career.
Bill McElroy: I was a pediatric dentist for almost 40 years and been retired for five years in June.
Bill McElroy: And so, yeah, since then
Bill McElroy: you know, I like being outside outdoors.
Bill McElroy: My wife likes uh and I like to hike and bike and and doing some traveling and things like that.
Bill McElroy: And I also spend, you know, time doing this kind of w work with men's work as well through Illuman and contemplative outreach, things like that.
Brian Mueller: Now let's dive in to talk about the men's rites of passage.
Brian Mueller: The MROP is a unique experience.
Brian Mueller: It's not a retreat or a workshop.
Brian Mueller: It's an initiation.
Brian Mueller: Many men arrive at the rites at a crossroads in their lives looking for something they can't quite name.
Brian Mueller: Before we dive into the why and the how, let's start at the very beginning.
Brian Mueller: When and where did you make your rites?
Bill McElroy: Made my rites in two thousand four at Ghost Ranch in New Mexico.
Bill McElroy: Was one of the last ones at Ghost Ranch.
Bill McElroy: He Richard was doing all of them there for a while and then
Bill McElroy: I think it got too expensive until they eventually started you know, they started and then we started going into regions.
Bill McElroy: But yeah, two thousand four Ghost Ranch was my where my rites.
Brian Mueller: I imagine Richard was your weaver, and how many men were there?
Bill McElroy: Yeah, Richard was the weaver, and I believe Stephen Picha, I think, was a ritual elder.
Bill McElroy: I can't remember.
Bill McElroy: I think it was I think he was a ritual elder.
Bill McElroy: And we had quite a few wee back then it was only doing one a year, so we had like one hundred and twenty, I believe, one hundred and thirty men.
Bill McElroy: Pretty big group.
Brian Mueller: Yeah, those were really big rites in the especially at the beginning.
Brian Mueller: Now, I'm going to ask you to think back to that weekend and what image comes forth when you think about your rites.
Brian Mueller: What image comes forth when I think about the rites?
Bill McElroy: I guess the biggest thing would be
Bill McElroy: The formation of, you know, it's sacred time and sacred space, you know, the container of the weekend.
Bill McElroy: And, you know, so it wasn't any one thing, it was, you know, the totality of the experience itself.
Bill McElroy: you know, entering entering into it.
Bill McElroy: I mean, entering into it was one thing, and looking back on it, of course, is is is a whole different thing.
Bill McElroy: But um, yeah, that was that would be the thing that really jumped out the most, you know.
Brian Mueller: Now without sharing anything that you consider confidential or too personal, is there a particular memory or an encounter with another man that you had during that weekend that kind of captures what the event meant to you?
Bill McElroy: Um, yeah, probably the the thing that jumped out.
Bill McElroy: I mean, it was uh when I was going on to writes, I was uh going into it, I'm was uh
Bill McElroy: hoping I would have like a mystical experience, you know, a real oneing-enlightenment type thing that would be it would mark, you know, this event right here, and then the rest of my life goes from that point.
Bill McElroy: And while I did have many experiences, I didn't have that necessarily, you know, and maybe because I was trying to create it as it doesn't work that way, I don't think.
Bill McElroy: I think these things
Bill McElroy: you know, happen when they happen.
Bill McElroy: The Spirit brings it when it brings it.
Bill McElroy: But probably the most notable thing that happened, which I was not going into the rites looking for this at all, but it was one of the days where you're working with grief.
Bill McElroy: in a grief ritual.
Bill McElroy: And in that ritual, I just came to a point where I was it just occurred to me, just intuitively, it just occurred to me
Bill McElroy: That there was some generic intergenerational father wound or pain in my patriarchal lineage
Bill McElroy: And it just hit me really hard.
Bill McElroy: I I realized right then, you know, my dad never even spoke about his grandfather.
Bill McElroy: My grandfather, his father died before I was born.
Bill McElroy: He was quite a bit older.
Bill McElroy: But it just hit me right there.
Bill McElroy: He never even spoke about him.
Bill McElroy: And I said, There's got to be this big wound.
Bill McElroy: I could just feel I could just feel it.
Bill McElroy: And my father and I were not super close.
Bill McElroy: A lot of reasons for that.
Bill McElroy: He was, you know, worked six days a week, very busy.
Bill McElroy: I was the oldest of six.
Bill McElroy: But in any case, I I just said, I'm not going to pass this on to my son.
Bill McElroy: And I said, I was angry.
Bill McElroy: I said, It stops with me.
Bill McElroy: And I pouted my fist down.
Bill McElroy: And I was in the middle.
Bill McElroy: And then I just said, you know what?
Bill McElroy: Give me all the pain right now.
Bill McElroy: I'll take all the grief.
Bill McElroy: I will take all the pain then right now, and we're going to end this thing.
Bill McElroy: And I swear, you know, I had this huge rush of energy.
Bill McElroy: I can't even explain what it even felt like, but whatever it was, it dropped me to my knees and I just started sobbing right there.
Bill McElroy: And like I said, I didn't there's nothing I was aware of before the rites, you know, but I've been acutely aware of it since the rites, you know.
Bill McElroy: And so I really worked hard on my relationship with my son, too.
Bill McElroy: And which has improved greatly.
Bill McElroy: You know, we did many things together after that.
Bill McElroy: I made a made a point of it.
Bill McElroy: I made it just so drew it to my attention, you know.
Brian Mueller: Yeah, thank you for sharing that.
Brian Mueller: I really appreciate it.
Brian Mueller: Now, thinking back to just before the rites or to even several months before the rites, what was going on in your life?
Brian Mueller: What were the circumstances that led you to decide, yeah, I want to participate in a men's rites of passage?
Bill McElroy: Well, I went back.
Bill McElroy: It was one of these situations where something I wanted to do for a while.
Bill McElroy: I was introduced to Richard, it was really the one that really got brought me into it.
Bill McElroy: My spiritual director, this is back in the mid-nineties spiritual, so it would have been about 10 years before when I made my rites actually, my spiritual director was saying to me, you know, sometimes when you pray
Bill McElroy: Just listen.
Bill McElroy: You know, don't say any words.
Bill McElroy: Just listen.
Bill McElroy: He didn't even use the word silence.
Bill McElroy: He'd just listen.
Bill McElroy: And I'm like, well, listen to what?
Bill McElroy: you know, and I couldn't hear anything, you know, and uh but he'd just listen, just sit and listen.
Bill McElroy: So I was fine and I was doing that in my prayer.
Bill McElroy: on and off for a year.
Bill McElroy: And then I was introduced to a tape series, you know, by Richard Rohr.
Bill McElroy: It was Spirituality Subtraction.
Bill McElroy: I remember I was at a friend's house.
Bill McElroy: He goes, Hey, you might like this.
Bill McElroy: And I listened to it.
Bill McElroy: And I get the tape number three, and this is what he's talking about, is contemplative prayer in silence.
Bill McElroy: And he's putting a name to what you know, I had never heard that term before, in cradle Catholic, but that just contemplative prayer never came up.
Bill McElroy: But it really
Bill McElroy: really hooked me.
Bill McElroy: And then later I I was in a bookstore and looking for some things in the children's section.
Bill McElroy: My wife and I were doing some confirmation work in our parish.
Bill McElroy: And somebody had laid down a tape series by Richard in the children's section.
Bill McElroy: You know, didn't belong in that section.
Bill McElroy: I just just happened to notice it.
Bill McElroy: I thought, oh, it's the same guy.
Bill McElroy: So I got to listen to this, and it was a men's retreat.
Bill McElroy: And it was on the archetypes, the heroic male archetypes, lover, warrior, magician and king.
Bill McElroy: And that language and symbology really just really hit a note with me.
Bill McElroy: That's why I got to go to the desert with this guy.
Bill McElroy: You know, and I realized
Bill McElroy: After that, then the next thing was, you know, I don't have any kings in my life.
Bill McElroy: I'd really notice I don't have any kings in my life.
Bill McElroy: I've got to change that.
Bill McElroy: And so I committed to one day going to the desert.
Bill McElroy: And in the meantime, then Richard developed the rites in in the middle to late nineties.
Bill McElroy: And I saw that and I thought, well, I eventually have to do this and it was just a matter of when the time was right.
Bill McElroy: You know, you're taking five days off, you're going away, it's expensive, leaving my wife home with the kids and all that.
Bill McElroy: And so it just worked out that two thousand four was the right time for me.
Brian Mueller: How did the people in your life, your wife, your spiritual director, others in your community that you let know about your decision, how did they respond initially to you saying, I'm going to the rites of passage?
Bill McElroy: Back then, not many people had heard about that or knew about it.
Bill McElroy: I think
Bill McElroy: The men going off by themselves on a retreat like that.
Bill McElroy: You know, there was this notion of oh, the men are all running around naked in the woods and drumming and yelling and screaming and stuff like that.
Bill McElroy: And it's kind of like a
Bill McElroy: I don't know, a tribal kind of a thing.
Bill McElroy: It was an interesting way people looked at it.
Bill McElroy: So I didn't like advertise it too much, but some of my small group that I was with, I told them they were going, have good luck, have a good retreat.
Bill McElroy: It was more like
Bill McElroy: Assuming I think it was like a regular type retreat, I don't think the impactful nature of it was known to them at the time.
Bill McElroy: So yeah, so uh but my wife was supportive of it.
Bill McElroy: She's in a spiritual journey herself.
Bill McElroy: Like I said, she's a spiritual director.
Bill McElroy: And that we weren't at the time, but you know, since then we both have went in and got our master's degrees in that.
Bill McElroy: So she was supportive, you know, I have to say she's a little bit like, well, what are you going to get involved in now?
Bill McElroy: You know, just because I have a tendency to really
Bill McElroy: go away at it.
Bill McElroy: And she just didn't want me like just to take off on a new adventure and leave her behind, I think, 'cause it was the men's work, it's just with the men, you know, and so
Bill McElroy: There was an ad nature of it, and that still even persists to today a little bit, but generally she's very supportive of it.
Bill McElroy: She knows it's good for me.
Bill McElroy: So
Brian Mueller: You alluded to this a little bit before in terms of like a turning point, the right rites wanting the rites to be that.
Brian Mueller: But when you arrived at the rites, when you arrived at Ghost Ranch, was there something that you were hoping to be initiated into?
Bill McElroy: Oh, well, that's a good question.
Bill McElroy: I wasn't anything I really entered into it because the instruction is, you know, when you enter into this, go with the beginner's mind, you know, and try not and so I was trying to really guard
Bill McElroy: against not having an expectation of really having a beginner's mind that just allows spirit to flow and so I settle into where I'm supposed to settle in.
Bill McElroy: So, I didn't have an, I really did not have an expectation aside from what I alluded to before is that I was hoping somewhere in there there would be this mystical
Bill McElroy: I don't know that Jesus would appear before me or anything like that, but it would be some type of a mystical morning experience, which I with that grief ritual, that was definitely something beyond the ordinary that happened, this energy that that rushed through me and dropped me to my knees.
Bill McElroy: I didn't just make that up.
Bill McElroy: I mean, that happened.
Bill McElroy: And so in itself, I guess we would put Coach Run and say it was of a mystical nature, certainly beyond five cents, three-dimensional, linear time world, whatever that was.
Bill McElroy: not what I had anticipated.
Bill McElroy: And that's which I think there's wisdom in that, just to go in without expectation.
Bill McElroy: Yeah.
Bill McElroy: So I initiated into, you know, the community of men that was that would have been, you know, around the fringes.
Bill McElroy: I was hoping to
Bill McElroy: to join this community, men that are willing to go deep, you know, and and be a man for others.
Bill McElroy: And so that was certainly been around the the fringe of it for sure.
Bill McElroy: Trying to be careful not to get too
Bill McElroy: Too much of a solid expectation.
Bill McElroy: This is what I hope to get out of it.
Bill McElroy: I don't have that much wisdom.
Brian Mueller: Well, conversely, was there something that did you feel some fear?
Brian Mueller: Was there anything that you were concerned about heading into the rites?
Bill McElroy: No, at that point
Bill McElroy: I don't think I really had any fears.
Bill McElroy: I was all in going into it.
Bill McElroy: So I didn't really have I was really anticipatory of whatever would come, you know, and that that's kind of my nature, I guess.
Brian Mueller: Yes, so you get through the the five day experience and come to the closing rituals.
Brian Mueller: It's time to leave.
Brian Mueller: How did you feel when you were driving off to the airport or wherever and heading back to
Brian Mueller: Chicago area?
Bill McElroy: Well, it was I guess it's you know, one of the things we talk about in this work is is liminality or liminal space.
Bill McElroy: And it's all of a sudden you've been through this experience.
Bill McElroy: And that's really what it was for me.
Bill McElroy: It was the thing about it's not like a regular retreat, like you mentioned.
Bill McElroy: It's so experiential, you know, and so it's just the whole thing, you know, the drumming, the circle, the ritual process, contemplation, all these things just create this container that you're in.
Bill McElroy: But it was very liminal for me.
Bill McElroy: The only thing I say is that I was like I was energized and I was charged and I knew it was good.
Bill McElroy: I knew I could trust it.
Bill McElroy: And I knew it was something that was needed.
Bill McElroy: Even I got the airport and on the plane, I was just thinking to myself, this has to go on.
Bill McElroy: We have to bring this to I'm from Illinois.
Bill McElroy: So we have to bring this back to our region.
Bill McElroy: I have to do something.
Bill McElroy: It's not something I can just like, oh, that was a great experience and check that off.
Bill McElroy: I knew that this had to somehow continue.
Bill McElroy: And that was right there from the beginning for me.
Brian Mueller: You know, it's been more than twenty years since you did the Rites of Passage.
Brian Mueller: What has changed in your life, practically, relationally, spiritually, in these twenty years, in part perhaps because of the rites?
Bill McElroy: Well, I would say spiritually for sure, it was just part of the process.
Bill McElroy: I'd been on the spiritual journey for
Bill McElroy: quite some time.
Bill McElroy: I kind of had, I won't say a midlife crisis, but kind of a it's not one crisis that I have.
Bill McElroy: I had an earlier one.
Bill McElroy: My father died when I was twenty nine.
Bill McElroy: And there were several events for about a three-year period that were kind of impactful events where things were going south and were not going the way I thought they should go, you know, being a good
Bill McElroy: Catholic boy and obeying all the rules and doing things right, why is all this stuff, you know, the proverbial, you know, SH One T hitting the fan?
Bill McElroy: You know?
Bill McElroy: In my life, and I'm like, what's going on here?
Bill McElroy: So I got kind of got started on this adult journey right at the very end of my twenties and early thirties.
Bill McElroy: And so
Bill McElroy: So I've been on the journey for a while, but it was convoluted when it, but coming off of the rites, God just became
Bill McElroy: More personal, not as much of God is other out there somewhere that I would relate to, like as a second person type of a thing.
Bill McElroy: It was
Bill McElroy: getting more personal than that.
Bill McElroy: Not just like a Jesus and me thing that like that.
Bill McElroy: It wasn't like that at all.
Bill McElroy: It was more, I don't know.
Bill McElroy: There was more of an inner experience with God.
Bill McElroy: This became more personal than that.
Bill McElroy: It's harder to to describe, actually.
Bill McElroy: But
Bill McElroy: But in any case, it did hi it was impactful in that regard.
Bill McElroy: And I one of the things I learned in this process of the rites and processing it afterwards was
Bill McElroy: Beginning to trust my own experience of things, you know.
Bill McElroy: So, not so much outer authority as, you know, beginning to.
Bill McElroy: Develop a little bit of my own inner authority on that.
Bill McElroy: Not that I'm certainly not the end to all of any of everything, but
Bill McElroy: You know, it was different than just being totally everything out outer.
Bill McElroy: It was more of a combination of inner and outer for me.
Bill McElroy: Hard to describe that.
Brian Mueller: Yeah.
Brian Mueller: How did the rites impact your ideas about masculinity, initiation, even the male journey?
Bill McElroy: Well, first of all, it helped me to see when I was with all these spiritual generative men coming together and doing their work with each other in small group and in a large group and a ritual process, all that.
Bill McElroy: I really could see to me what a healthy masculinity looked like.
Bill McElroy: You know, I mentioned the archetypes before, you know, the king archetype that had no kings.
Bill McElroy: you know, there were there were kings there and magicians there, there were mature men there, and you could feel the difference.
Bill McElroy: And so that kind of like highlighted when you when I would see like what we would call and there seems to be
Bill McElroy: A lot of that going around right now, the toxic Max Masculine, it really stood out, you know, and I could really so it really changed my whole idea of
Bill McElroy: You know, the goal as a king is you have, you know, spiritual energy, but you have an overflow of energy to be a man for others.
Bill McElroy: So you're not there just for yourself and trying to, you know, get me to heaven.
Bill McElroy: And it's just being there to support other others on that same journey.
Bill McElroy: We're all in it together type of a thing.
Bill McElroy: That that why that's what I would say as far as masculinity goes.
Bill McElroy: You know, and you know, it's not that in our culture
Bill McElroy: It was at least especially we're as a boomer.
Bill McElroy: John Wayne w or Rambo would have been, you know, the images that we were given when we were young, we were growing up, you know, a little messy, I'm right across Apache territory for you.
Bill McElroy: Yeah.
Bill McElroy: So the whole image of masculinity that was kind of embedded in me really had a shift at that time and since then.
Brian Mueller: Bill, you're somebody I remember from my rites of passage.
Brian Mueller: You were there.
Brian Mueller: You've been at many rites of passage as a teaching elder.
Brian Mueller: assisting with ritual, just supporting the rites in general.
Brian Mueller: I think you've been there almost every time they've done it in Illinois, except perhaps one year you were sick.
Brian Mueller: But let me ask you what
Brian Mueller: Why do you keep coming back?
Brian Mueller: Why do you keep coming back to the rites?
Bill McElroy: Like I was saying before, just being part of that process, because I know what it can do for a man and how
Bill McElroy: So many people over the years, just they talk about the experience that they've had, the totality of the experience.
Bill McElroy: It hits different men in different ways in different places.
Bill McElroy: It's just miraculous to watch that.
Bill McElroy: So there there's that aspect of it.
Bill McElroy: It's just the satisfaction you get where sometimes you can just see some of these things unfolding.
Bill McElroy: Maybe even that the man can't even see himself, but it's just like, ooh, you know, oh, yeah.
Bill McElroy: And that's a real positive aspect of it.
Bill McElroy: And then there's the logistical side of it is there has to be somebody there.
Bill McElroy: There has to be a body there, you know, to set up chairs.
Bill McElroy: you know, and to you know, to bring men into the circle, to gather men, you know, try to get them to you know settle into the space, to create the sacred container and and that type of a thing.
Bill McElroy: It's so
Bill McElroy: Crucial to the rites is to do that, is that draw yourself out of that outer world, the busyness of it, and all that, you know, and just bring it all in for that container.
Bill McElroy: So there's a logistical part of that, of of being the body that's there doing those things.
Bill McElroy: That that's a necessary thing, you know.
Bill McElroy: But the enjoyment of it is a is a big part of it too.
Bill McElroy: You know, seeing the process right before you, laying out right before you that you went through at one time.
Brian Mueller: Yeah, I really hear you.
Brian Mueller: In some of my previous conversations, especially some of the ones I've had more recently, one of the things that comes up is that how supportive
Brian Mueller: The men are that put on the rites, and how some men may have had some trepidation coming into this about what the experience would be like, but
Brian Mueller: they haven't experienced that sort of love and care and tenderness from other men before in their lives.
Brian Mueller: That along with the possibility for transformation that exists in that space, it is it's a beautiful thing.
Bill McElroy: Yeah.
Bill McElroy: I'm going through it.
Bill McElroy: Each individual has their own process, their own thing they're working through, and you're going through it with other men, may have different issues, but you're all going through it together.
Bill McElroy: So it's that
Bill McElroy: Process, you know, the communal immersion nature of it and the experiential nature of it going through it together, you know, makes such a difference when you're going through it with summer.
Bill McElroy: I mean, camaraderie makes
Bill McElroy: Such a difference when you're going through difficult times like that.
Bill McElroy: I did found that in my past.
Bill McElroy: Just if you know somebody else that is suffering, you happen to be suffering from something, just walking shoulder to shoulder, walking almost breaks down.
Bill McElroy: almost brings tears in my eyes right now.
Bill McElroy: It's you know, walking shoulder to shoulder with somebody through that, you totally different issues.
Bill McElroy: It doesn't matter.
Bill McElroy: You're just you're just with somebody.
Bill McElroy: You're not alone.
Bill McElroy: And then the community nature of it, you belong.
Bill McElroy: You belong.
Bill McElroy: It's powerful.
Brian Mueller: Our Illuman community is celebrating thirty years since the first rites of passage, formal rites of passage in the New Mexico desert out there in at Ghost Ranch.
Brian Mueller: What I'd like to ask you, I mean, you've been around for quite a significant part of that time.
Brian Mueller: How have the rites changed and evolved in your estimation or what you've seen?
Bill McElroy: Well, certainly going from the one time a year at Ghost Ranch to the regions.
Bill McElroy: The regions were just getting started right around the time.
Bill McElroy: In fact, I think at my rice, it was the first or second rice where
Bill McElroy: Richard wasn't doing all the teaching.
Bill McElroy: We had teaching elders, men that have been through the rites come in as teaching elders.
Bill McElroy: There's three teachings that are given like that over the five days.
Bill McElroy: So that was one of the one of the changes, and some of those men were actually given and then Richard would come out afterwards and just nuance a little bit, fill the gaps.
Bill McElroy: But now there's more of a regional flavor to these things.
Bill McElroy: And each region is different as far as what's just the environment that you're in.
Bill McElroy: In the Midwest, here are no mountains.
Bill McElroy: biggest thing we got floating around here would be like a a large anthill, maybe.
Bill McElroy: You know, so it's just it's just a different environment as far as that
Bill McElroy: But the essence of it, I think, is the essence of it is still there.
Bill McElroy: And it has to necessarily change when it went from Richard eventually he would come when the region was having their first rites.
Bill McElroy: he would come and do those rites.
Bill McElroy: He did that for us at our two thousand eight rites.
Bill McElroy: You know, he was there.
Bill McElroy: But then after that it was we had other weavers that would that would come in.
Bill McElroy: And each weaver, you know, brings their gifts.
Bill McElroy: You know, but the essence, it really done a really good job of keeping the essence there.
Bill McElroy: And there's been a decided commitment and effort.
Bill McElroy: to keep that there.
Bill McElroy: Things have changed a little bit.
Bill McElroy: Some of the, you know, there'll be some nuancing to some of the rituals as time and culture change.
Bill McElroy: But that essence, though, is still there.
Bill McElroy: And so I find this pretty remarkable.
Bill McElroy: One of the things I like about it.
Brian Mueller: I'm going to try something different now.
Brian Mueller: I would like to read a poem that I became aware of from something I read or something I listened to that Father Richard had done.
Brian Mueller: And it's by D.
Brian Mueller: H.
Brian Mueller: Lawrence.
Brian Mueller: It's called - or it's referred to as “Healing”, I believe.
Brian Mueller: I'm going to read this poem.
Brian Mueller: I think it speaks a little bit to what brings a man to the men's rites of passage or to the point where they might benefit some from initiation.
Brian Mueller: But I'm going to read it and I'm going to ask you to comment and see if there's anything that resonates with you.
Brian Mueller: It's called “Healing”.
Brian Mueller: I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections, and it is not because this mechanism is working wrongly that I am ill.
Brian Mueller: I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self, and the wounds to the soul take a long, long time only time can help and patience and a certain difficult repentance.
Brian Mueller: long, difficult repentance, realization of life's mistake, and the freeing of oneself from the endless repetition of the mistake which mankind at large has chosen to sanctify.
Bill McElroy: I have not heard that poem, but I love it.
Bill McElroy: And D.
Bill McElroy: H.
Bill McElroy: Lawrence was he was a good, excellent poet.
Bill McElroy: Yeah, I would say that directly applies to what a lot of what's going on with the rites and with the inner work in preparing for the rites, the rites themselves, and what goes on afterwards.
Bill McElroy: you know, the soul is wounded in many ways.
Bill McElroy: We each have our own woundings in our life experience, you know.
Bill McElroy: And as I mentioned, part of my experience was the intergenerational
Bill McElroy: nature of some of that that father wound.
Bill McElroy: You know, certainly I experienced it wasn't really a father wound.
Bill McElroy: My dad was a a good dad, a good man.
Bill McElroy: It was more father hunger.
Bill McElroy: He was he was emotionally
Bill McElroy: Kind of distant.
Bill McElroy: You know, he was an alcoholic, which I didn't really know until after I had actually moved out of the house.
Bill McElroy: It was came later.
Bill McElroy: But he wasn't, you know, violent.
Bill McElroy: He was just numbing himself.
Bill McElroy: So I experienced that personally.
Bill McElroy: What is his experience?
Bill McElroy: That's one of the things that helps you look back and say, Well, I wonder what his experience was.
Bill McElroy: So, one of the things that happens with all this work is
Bill McElroy: An expansion of your perspectives, able to see various perspectives, not just your own.
Bill McElroy: And that soul work does take a long time.
Bill McElroy: It doesn't just pop out.
Bill McElroy: Some of the woundings that happen to us are really from early childhood that we're not even aware of, and they kind of get shuttled into the unconscious.
Bill McElroy: buried down in there.
Bill McElroy: But you know, anything like that that you bury, you bury alive.
Bill McElroy: And it does have an impact on your life.
Bill McElroy: And that's what some of the work is, is to
Bill McElroy: You know, and that's why Ritual is such a good teacher.
Bill McElroy: Because some of the symbols in ritual for me, you know, they really help to connect
Bill McElroy: From my conscious awareness to what is unconscious, what's underneath it.
Bill McElroy: Why do I react that way to that?
Bill McElroy: Why does that trigger me?
Bill McElroy: Things like that.
Bill McElroy: And so those are like inroads to getting in there.
Bill McElroy: So I love that poem.
Bill McElroy: That would I think that would be a good one to send out to people ahead of time.
Bill McElroy: ”Healing” it’s called.
Bill McElroy: So when we get off, I'm going to go look that one up and add that to my collection.
Brian Mueller: Yeah, I'll put a link in the show notes as well.
Brian Mueller: Just to wrap up here, let's you and I make a case for someone to attend the Illinois rites this year, whether they're coming for the first time or they want to come back as an initiator.
Brian Mueller: to experience the rites again.
Brian Mueller: It's happening August twelfth through the sixteenth at Pilgrim Park.
Brian Mueller: What would you tell a man trying to discern whether or not to come in and join us this year?
Bill McElroy: Well, I would say to them, trust your intuition on that.
Bill McElroy: There's always all kinds of things that are going to get in the way.
Bill McElroy: There'll be tons of excuses.
Bill McElroy: You can make a big, long list of excuses.
Bill McElroy: And you know, some of them five days away, taking off of work, you only have so much vacation time, all these things.
Bill McElroy: Plenty of excuses there.
Bill McElroy: But this is I would just say
Bill McElroy: Take this time out for yourself.
Bill McElroy: You know, this is five days.
Bill McElroy: It's a little longer than a typical weekend retreat, you know, Friday night to Sunday noon, you know, type of thing.
Bill McElroy: you need a couple more days in there to to kind of unwind some of this stuff and and let it let it get in.
Bill McElroy: And I would just tell you the the group of men working and the the Weaver that's coming in, Jim Clarke,
Bill McElroy: that you'll find is outstanding.
Bill McElroy: Joe Lonergan, Ritual Elder, outstanding.
Bill McElroy: I've worked with these men over the years and the team, just committed men that are there for you.
Bill McElroy: So where do you find that in the workplace where you're going to have a team of eight to twelve men that are just there for you?
Bill McElroy: And for your process and your life.
Bill McElroy: So I would say trust your intuition and just get it done.
Bill McElroy: And then you can always beat yourself up afterwards if you didn't work out.
Bill McElroy: There's plenty of opportunity for that.
Bill McElroy: But
Bill McElroy: Probably that's not going to happen.
Bill McElroy: It'll be a positive experience for you.
Brian Mueller: Thank you so much, brother.
Brian Mueller: I want to say I love you and I really appreciate your time.
Brian Mueller: and the courage in sharing us vulnerably your story and experience at the rites and beyond.
Brian Mueller: So thank you so much.
Bill McElroy: Yeah, well, thank you, Brian.
Bill McElroy: You do a great job with this and appreciate it.
Bill McElroy: This needed work.
Bill McElroy: It's been great having call you as a friend over the years too.
Bill McElroy: And we will see you there at the Rice as well.
Bill McElroy: So looking forward to that already.
Bill McElroy: See you in August.
Brian Mueller: Tray Pal, take care.
Brian Mueller: God bless.
Brian Mueller: For those listening who are now feeling a tug in their own soul and are curious to learn more, allow me to share a bit about the history of these rites.
Brian Mueller: The men's rites of passage was originally developed by Father Richard Rohr, and was first offered at Ghost Ranch, New Mexico, in nineteen ninety six.
Brian Mueller: While it was supported for many years by the Center for Action and Contemplation, since twenty twelve a Illuman has been the steward of this work,
Brian Mueller: preserving and adapting the rites for men all over the world.
Brian Mueller: To learn more about the history and the theology behind this work, I highly recommend reading “Adam's Return” by Richard Rohr.
Brian Mueller: If you are ready to make your rites, there are four opportunities in the United States and another in the United Kingdom in twenty-twenty six.
Brian Mueller: The first is in Northern California, May thirteenth through the seventeenth.
Brian Mueller: the second in the United Kingdom, July twenty second through the twenty sixth, and in Illinois, August twelfth through the sixteenth.
Brian Mueller: There's one on the East Coast, in New Jersey, September sixteenth through the twentieth.
Brian Mueller: and the final one of the year is in Texas, which is an MROP and Umbrales, our Spanish language rites, September thirtieth through October fourth.
Brian Mueller: You can find details and registration information at Illuman dot
Brian Mueller: org slash mrop
Brian Mueller: or Illuman dot org slash events.
Brian Mueller: Additionally, mark your calendars for Awaken, the annual national gathering of Illuman, taking place November fifth through the eighth in New Mexico.
Brian Mueller: You can find more at Illuman dot org slash awaken.
Brian Mueller: Finally, a special thank you to our sponsor, Choosing Presence.
Brian Mueller: If today's conversation moved you, I encourage you to bring more intentionality into your daily life.
Brian Mueller: Download the Practicing Presence app for free at choosingpresence dot
Brian Mueller: org slash app.
Brian Mueller: It's a simple but profound way to stay connected to the journey we've discussed today.
Brian Mueller: Thank you for listening to follow me to the MROP.
Brian Mueller: Until next time, brothers, stay present.