Brian Mueller: Welcome to Follow Me to the MROP, a podcast dedicated to the journey of the masculine soul and the transformative power of initiation.
Brian Mueller: My name is Brian Mueller.
Brian Mueller: I live in suburban Dayton, Ohio, and I made my rites at Pilgrim Park in Illinois in twenty fourteen.
Brian Mueller: I'm your host, and in each episode of our show I'll sit down with one man who has made his rites, and I'll invite him to tell his story.
Brian Mueller: This won't be an abstract explanation or a theological lecture, just a real conversation about what it was like to cross that threshold at the Rites and what changed afterward.
Brian Mueller: Before we begin, a quick word of gratitude.
Brian Mueller: This podcast is brought to you by Choosing Presence.
Brian Mueller: We believe that the greatest gift a man can give his community is his own presence.
Brian Mueller: In a world of constant distraction, choosing presence provides the tools to help you stay grounded in the now.
Brian Mueller: If you'd like an easy way to begin learning about the practice of presence, you can download the free Practicing Presence app at choosingpresence dot
Brian Mueller: org slash app.
Brian Mueller: Now the Men's Rites of Passage, or MROP, is an experience designed to help men move from the first half of life into the second, shifting from a focus on ego and achievement to a life of meaning and soul.
Brian Mueller: On this show, we just don't talk about the rites in theory, we talk to the men who have walked the path.
Brian Mueller: Today we are joined by a man who has made his rites, and we're going to hear exactly what that journey looked like for him.
Brian Mueller: My guest today is Tom Melancon.
Brian Mueller: Brother, I'm really glad you're here.
Brian Mueller: Thanks for making the time and for being willing to share your story.
Tom Melancon: Oh, thanks for having me.
Tom Melancon: I appreciate it.
Brian Mueller: Tom, tell us where you're from and how you spend your time these days.
Tom Melancon: Okay, well, I'm from Seattle, Washington, and I am very recently retired.
Tom Melancon: And when we get into the rite of passage, we'll talk about that.
Tom Melancon: But it was last year that I did my rites.
Tom Melancon: I think they call it it was in Oregon, I'm forgetting the name - Sky Camp in Oregon.
Tom Melancon: And I was right in the middle of wrapping up my last year of service.
Tom Melancon: I was a federal employee for almost 25 years.
Tom Melancon: And the job I was ending was I worked as a federal mediator for the last ten years of my federal service.
Tom Melancon: And so retired now and just
Tom Melancon: Finding all kinds of ways to fill up my scaffolding.
Tom Melancon: I feel like I'm just as busy as I was when I was working.
Brian Mueller: So, Tom, your men's rites of passage story is a little bit different from those we've featured in our past episodes.
Brian Mueller: Let's start by talking about your introduction to Father Richard Rohr and men's spirituality.
Brian Mueller: Can you tell me a little bit more about when and where you attended your men's retreat offered by the Center for Action Contemplation?
Tom Melancon: Yeah, absolutely.
Tom Melancon: So.
Tom Melancon: This was in the early 90s.
Tom Melancon: I just called my little brother to try to help me remember because it's been 30 plus years.
Tom Melancon: 93, 94, we traveled to Ghost Ranch for a men's retreat.
Tom Melancon: They weren't calling it a rites of passage, but it was a hundred men and
Tom Melancon: Richard was the leader, and it was for a week.
Tom Melancon: And it was a powerful experience.
Tom Melancon: My brother and I were on the younger side of the crowd.
Tom Melancon: I mean, you know, I was.
Tom Melancon: in my early uh thirties and uh he was late, you know, late twenties.
Tom Melancon: He's five years younger than me.
Tom Melancon: And uh we were really I mean, there was it was quite a few men that were most of the men were quite a bit older than than us.
Tom Melancon: And I went two years in a row, and it gets a little fuzzy about which year which thing happened.
Tom Melancon: But one of the years, I think it was when my brother-in-law went with me the next year, we actually had the opportunity to have breakfast with Richard one day.
Tom Melancon: He said
Tom Melancon: Put it out there that he had some time to, so we had breakfast with him, and we were in the process of trying to form kind of a little spiritual community in where I lived at the time, which was northern Nevada.
Tom Melancon: And I asked him.
Tom Melancon: I said, Richard, I'm watching these men, especially the older men, and they're having these really profound spiritual experiences.
Tom Melancon: And I'm feeling something, but not that.
Tom Melancon: And he said, don’t take this the wrong way, Tom, but you're not old enough.
Tom Melancon: And I'm not sure I really even understood what he was saying.
Tom Melancon: But when I went back and took - did the men’s rites passage with Illuman last summer, I was just about to turn 65.
Tom Melancon: I had a profound spiritual experience.
Tom Melancon: I understood all those years later what he was talking about.
Tom Melancon: Yeah, it was transformative.
Tom Melancon: And so it's just interesting.
Tom Melancon: And I hadn't until I listened to
Tom Melancon: your podcast a few weeks ago with the gentleman who went on the first of Richard's Rites Passage, I hadn't connected the dots that I mean, I knew Richard had something to do with Illuman, but I hadn't realized that we'd been to
Tom Melancon: One of the gatherings of men that was prior to when he probably called it a rites of passage.
Brian Mueller: Right.
Brian Mueller: Yeah.
Brian Mueller: That was the time when he was actually developing the rites, probably.
Brian Mueller: And you know, certain.
Brian Mueller: It's kind of the precursor.
Brian Mueller: Do you remember some of the themes or the names of these retreats that you went on?
Tom Melancon: Yeah, one of them was the Hero's Journey.
Tom Melancon: God, I should have.
Tom Melancon: You know what?
Tom Melancon: I think I have some notes somewhere buried somewhere around it because I took notes.
Tom Melancon: But I can remember some of the themes.
Tom Melancon: It was.
Tom Melancon: One of the themes that and it stuck with me because I've, you know, my whole life I've thought about it was that process of a man in terms of his life and his career
Tom Melancon: Is that you're building this tower of achievements and accomplishments, and you're building, building, building.
Tom Melancon: And then at some point, if you want to get to the level that you want to get to, you jump off the tower.
Tom Melancon: And I thought that was a really powerful.
Tom Melancon: And I was still building my tower at the time.
Tom Melancon: You know, I was in my early 30s.
Tom Melancon: I had a lot of my career left.
Tom Melancon: You know, I had a couple of careers later after that.
Tom Melancon: But it was pretty powerful, that idea of this tower of a common.
Tom Melancon: And I remember, one of the things I remember from that workshop, too, was this.
Tom Melancon: I don't know if they've used it in Lumen, but it was this
Tom Melancon: Image of a world, and there's a man at each stage of his life, and there's a there's a
Tom Melancon: Part of it where he's kind of looking eagerly because he's climbing, and it was part of this tremendous.
Tom Melancon: And at one point, he's on top, and he looks like he's like, He's just got it, and then at another point, he's starting to slip on the other side.
Tom Melancon: And it was this idea of this inexorable wheel of life that Richard was talking about.
Tom Melancon: And that was one of the other themes that it just keeps going.
Tom Melancon: You know, you have these accomplishments, and then maybe a defeat, and then you get back up.
Tom Melancon: But it's a cycle and it continues.
Brian Mueller: That's great to hear.
Brian Mueller: I'm excited to hear a little bit about what some of those events were that kind of led up to the rites.
Brian Mueller: Can you tell me a little bit about what was going on in your life at that time that compelled you to go to this retreat?
Tom Melancon: So, the first time or the last year?
Brian Mueller: No, the first time.
Tom Melancon: Yeah, so the first time
Tom Melancon: I think part of it was my younger brother and I, and then my brother-in-law, because we kind of attended with each one, we were attempting to create
Tom Melancon: Kind of a little spiritual community.
Tom Melancon: We were getting together with some families.
Tom Melancon: It was mostly our family, but it was also some friends.
Tom Melancon: And I lived in Reno, Nevada at the time.
Tom Melancon: We were going to
Tom Melancon: And my brother and my sister lived in a little town called Loyalton, California, a little mountain town.
Tom Melancon: We were going over there every Sunday.
Tom Melancon: Getting together, kind of praying together, and then talking about what community could look like.
Tom Melancon: And, you know, one, we were, we were.
Tom Melancon: talking and thinking about buying some property and having like a planned community.
Tom Melancon: And one of the communities we'd thought about or read about was a one that Richard had
Tom Melancon: Had established New Jerusalem.
Tom Melancon: It was before he was even at the Center for Action and Contemplation.
Tom Melancon: It was prior to that.
Tom Melancon: I know he had worked with the community.
Tom Melancon: So we were kind of in this spiritual quest.
Tom Melancon: But interestingly, one of the things that was going on with me, too, and it took me years to figure it out, and it's part of my story, and I don't mind.
Tom Melancon: Talk telling people about it because it is just what it is.
Tom Melancon: I was also starting my career as an alcoholic and it was starting to ramp up.
Tom Melancon: And so it took me years.
Tom Melancon: It took me about 10 years.
Tom Melancon: Well,
Tom Melancon: Yeah, almost seven or eight years from that date to realize that I needed to get in recovery, and I've been in recovery since
Tom Melancon: since I moved to Seattle in 2001.
Tom Melancon: So almost 20 it would be 25 years of November.
Tom Melancon: But that was a big it was it was impacting me and I didn't even realize
Tom Melancon: How yet.
Tom Melancon: You know, it it was something that, you know, I realized that if I was going to have a spiritual practice, I was going to have to figure out how to keep from killing myself with drugs and alcohol first.
Tom Melancon: Right.
Tom Melancon: Because the two were not going to, you know, they were kind of not going to exist together.
Tom Melancon: So that was going on.
Brian Mueller: So it sounds to me like you were aware of Father Richard Rohr's involvement with the New Jerusalem community in Cincinnati.
Brian Mueller: Maybe you also had some subconscious calling, you know, or a draw to the work to do some spiritual work.
Tom Melancon: Well, I was.
Tom Melancon: And I was going to mention one other thing, and Stephen and I, my younger brother.
Tom Melancon: We'd also been reading some works like Robert Blies, Iron John.
Tom Melancon: We were interested in ways
Tom Melancon: in this idea of young men especially having some sort of a rite of passage.
Tom Melancon: We were talking about it.
Tom Melancon: We didn't know what it looked like yet, but we were kind of looking at
Tom Melancon: whether it would it would be possible to create such a thing, right?
Tom Melancon: Now we didn't get around to doing that, but we had that was part of part of the reason the reason to go to the to the retreats with Richard was to explore that and to learn more about that.
Brian Mueller: I'm glad you mentioned that.
Brian Mueller: So you were aware of Bly's work and Mead's work, the mythopoetic movement, men's movement that was going on at the time.
Brian Mueller: Yeah.
Brian Mueller: Yeah, let me ask you, so but when you did come out of this retreat experience in the early 90s, what did you take away from it?
Brian Mueller: What did you take away from that experience?
Tom Melancon: I mean, I think I realized that there was more
Tom Melancon: that was possible.
Tom Melancon: And part of it, again, going back to my experience, I was watching these men have this really powerful experience, and I wasn't quite having the same one.
Tom Melancon: And, you know, why that is, I'm not sure.
Tom Melancon: Again, Richard said it was possibly that I hadn't lived enough, really, to if I understand what you were saying.
Tom Melancon: But also, you know, I was still
Tom Melancon: you know, battling some of my demons, like I said.
Tom Melancon: So so it definitely opened up possibilities for me and where things could go.
Tom Melancon: But it took me a few years to just, you know, again, kind of get my
Tom Melancon: Alcohol and drug demons, you know, and by the way, you know, that's a lifelong thing.
Tom Melancon: I still, I'm still an alcoholic and a drug addict, but I've been in recovery for 24 years.
Tom Melancon: So I feel like, and that's a
Tom Melancon: It's a day-to-day thing, you know, and I and I'm still involved in a recovery program.
Tom Melancon: I still, you know, sponsor people and I'm active in it.
Tom Melancon: And so that was part of
Tom Melancon: Part of what I think I just had to go through.
Tom Melancon: But it did plant some seeds.
Tom Melancon: It really definitely plants some seeds.
Tom Melancon: And there's some themes that I'll never forget
Tom Melancon: Like the one we just, I talked about where it's this idea of jumping off your tower of accomplishments, or things that really resonated with me my whole life
Brian Mueller: Yeah, that's a theme you continually hear in the men's work is that we are constantly building towers or we were climbing ladders and we find out when we get to the top, it's leaning against the wrong wall, I think is another.
Brian Mueller: Yeah.
Brian Mueller: Yeah, you know, you mentioned, I can really relate to what you were saying.
Brian Mueller: Recently, I reread a book that I had read in college, and it was like, and I had really liked it then, and I was inspired by it on some level.
Brian Mueller: It's called The True Believer.
Brian Mueller: It's a philosophical book about the theory and nature of mass movements.
Brian Mueller: But I read it again this winter and it was a totally different book for me.
Brian Mueller: I really needed experience to go deeper.
Brian Mueller: So I totally understand what you're saying about the rites.
Brian Mueller: There's so many things that you're mentioning that I hope we'll hit on in this conversation.
Brian Mueller: If you don't mind, let's go into talk a little bit about the men's rites of passage.
Brian Mueller: Before we do that, I always like to read this.
Brian Mueller: Statement just to let the listeners know, because this podcast is really dedicated to men that may know about the men's rites of passage, but really are not familiar with the experience.
Brian Mueller: So, let's dive in and talk about the men's rites of passage.
Brian Mueller: The MROP is a unique experience, it's not a retreat or a workshop.
Brian Mueller: It's an initiation.
Brian Mueller: Many men arrive at the rites at a crossroads in their lives looking for something they can't quite name.
Brian Mueller: Before we dive into the why and the how, let's start at
Brian Mueller: The very beginning.
Brian Mueller: So you've been, you know, there was a big gap in your experiences of the men's spiritual work.
Brian Mueller: I guess that in the organization that became a Illuman.
Brian Mueller: But tell us, when did you make your rites then?
Tom Melancon: So I made it in May of last year, and it was a really interesting time for me because
Tom Melancon: I won't go into too much detail, but the the listeners can imagine what was going on last year.
Tom Melancon: I was a federal employee and there was probably some stuff in the news about what was happening with federal employees.
Tom Melancon: We felt like we were kind of under siege.
Tom Melancon: And uh and I was uh but I was still working as a federal mediator uh for a little agency called the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service.
Tom Melancon: And uh I was I was one of the things I was uh other thing that I do in my
Tom Melancon: a vocation of mine is I've been a musician for many years, played in played in bands and and led bands, and I was getting ready to go to France
Tom Melancon: For two weeks to participate in a musical artist residency, a place in Chateau in France.
Tom Melancon: And then I was going to spend another two weeks with my partner.
Tom Melancon: So I had a whole month
Tom Melancon: That was carved out in April last year.
Tom Melancon: And I needed to save up all my leave because I'm a you know, I'm a public servant, we don't get inexhaustible leave, and I'm saving and saving and saving.
Tom Melancon: And I think I just have enough, and a week before
Tom Melancon: I am supposed to go to France.
Tom Melancon: I get an admin a letter that says we're going to be put on administrative leave.
Tom Melancon: Okay, you know, and and but it also means
Tom Melancon: I don't have to use my leave.
Tom Melancon: They're going to pay for the government's going to pay for me to be in France.
Tom Melancon: That's just the way it works out.
Tom Melancon: So I go to France, have an amazing time.
Tom Melancon: That's a whole other experience.
Tom Melancon: And then when I got back, a friend of mine named Mark Titus had been involved in a rite of passage the year before, and he said, Tom.
Tom Melancon: We've talked about, I know you've read Richard Rohr's stuff, you've got a connection with him.
Tom Melancon: There's this group that I was involved in, and I think you'd really dig this thing.
Tom Melancon: And he told me about it.
Tom Melancon: And the reason I hadn't signed up for it is I didn't think I'd have enough leave because I was using all my leave to go to France.
Tom Melancon: Well, I didn't have to use any of my leave to go to France.
Tom Melancon: So I got back from France and I said, Mark, I'm going.
Tom Melancon: And I signed up.
Tom Melancon: And got to go to Sky Camp, and it was in May of last year.
Brian Mueller: And that was the first rites of passage that was done in Oregon, right?
Tom Melancon: Was it?
Brian Mueller: Okay.
Brian Mueller: I believe that was the very first one.
Brian Mueller: Who was your weaver?
Brian Mueller: It was Ned.
Brian Mueller: Ned Abenroth.
Brian Mueller: Okay.
Tom Melancon: Yeah.
Tom Melancon: And you know, I tell you, the experience was really different.
Tom Melancon: And so and part of the reason I think it was different was, you know, in those 30 years that went by, especially the last 24 between
Tom Melancon: My first exposure and this brighter passage.
Tom Melancon: I had done a lot of work spiritually, and I'm not going to go into great detail about it because it's an anonymous program, but I am in recovery and I participate in a program that helps people stay sober, right?
Tom Melancon: And it is a spiritual program.
Tom Melancon: It really is.
Tom Melancon: It's not the same.
Tom Melancon: I mean, there's differences and nuances, but it definitely part of it is focusing on your spiritual
Tom Melancon: Development and your connection with whatever your version of higher power that there is, right?
Tom Melancon: So I'd done that work, but also when I got when I arrived at Sky Camp
Tom Melancon: It was a time that was I'm in a transition.
Tom Melancon: I am literally looking at jumping off my tower 'cause I've been working for the federal government for almost twenty five years.
Tom Melancon: I can see the end is near.
Tom Melancon: You know, they've already put me there, already laid me off, kind of ready to go anyway.
Tom Melancon: I was I was looking at the end of that year anyway.
Tom Melancon: And then the other thing is, I really decided to lean in to the experience.
Tom Melancon: I mean, I made a conscious decision that, you know, I trust Mark, my friend.
Tom Melancon: He told me this thing is.
Tom Melancon: Is legit.
Tom Melancon: I believe in it.
Tom Melancon: I've been connected in one way or another to Richard Roare for all these years.
Tom Melancon: And I decided I'm going to say yes to this experience.
Tom Melancon: And I did.
Tom Melancon: I kind of jumped in.
Brian Mueller: Did you know anything about the rites?
Brian Mueller: Had you read Adam's Return?
Brian Mueller: I mean, you have a little bit different journey, but what did you know going in?
Tom Melancon: I'd read Adam's Return just prior to the workshop or to the rites of passage.
Tom Melancon: And so I knew, you know, I had some idea of what to expect.
Tom Melancon: But obviously, you know.
Tom Melancon: You know more about it than I do, but it feels like the Illuman group has really taken Richard's work and expanded it.
Brian Mueller: Yeah, it has evolved some in recent years.
Brian Mueller: But you obviously had a great deal of trust.
Brian Mueller: You had a friend recommender.
Brian Mueller: You had experienced Richard's retreats in the past and you had read Adam's Return.
Brian Mueller: Who else did you share?
Brian Mueller: With the your decision to attend the rites, your partner or anybody else, maybe?
Tom Melancon: My partner knew about it, and she was very supportive of it.
Tom Melancon: I think I I reached out to my younger brother 'cause I I was uh wanted to let him know that I was going to another Richard's retreat or you know con something connected to Richard.
Tom Melancon: But you know, the other thing is um
Tom Melancon: I actually have a fair amount of skepticism when it comes to anything that can feel guru-ish or, you know, cult-ish in any way.
Tom Melancon: And so
Tom Melancon: When I arrived, you know, my my antenna were out.
Tom Melancon: Like, okay, is there, you know, is there anything that's going to be weird here?
Tom Melancon: And one of the things that I started feeling right off the bat is just an immense amount of trust.
Tom Melancon: Because I could tell how much planning and care and attention had gone into this process.
Tom Melancon: And you know, I've been involved in my professional life in planning
Tom Melancon: Conferences and events related to my work for years.
Tom Melancon: I know what goes into it.
Tom Melancon: And I know this is different, but there's some similarities in terms of food and everything you need to do in terms of preparation for lodging and the activities.
Tom Melancon: And so
Tom Melancon: I was just I was kind of blown away.
Tom Melancon: Right off the bat, I could tell this is these are serious people really trying to make this an experience that people could come away with that'll change their lives.
Tom Melancon: And so I really leaned in.
Brian Mueller: I'm really glad you noticed that.
Brian Mueller: It really is a labor of love for the men that put on these men's rites of passage.
Brian Mueller: It's a lot of work, but it shows their deep care and affection and willingness.
Brian Mueller: They want to do this for others.
Brian Mueller: They've had the experience themselves.
Brian Mueller: And they want to carry that work forward.
Brian Mueller: So let me ask you: what when you were heading into the rites, just about to start, was there something you were hoping for?
Brian Mueller: Was there something you wanted to be initiated into?
Tom Melancon: You know, I don't know if there was anything tangible like that.
Tom Melancon: I had a healthy amount of kind of fear.
Tom Melancon: There was a certain amount of me that's like, oh, am I going to have to do something that's going to make me really uncomfortable?
Tom Melancon: Or, you know, am I going to have to be vulnerable in some way?
Tom Melancon: And it turns out, yeah.
Tom Melancon: If you decide to.
Tom Melancon: And it was fine.
Tom Melancon: But I had a certain amount of just anxiety around that.
Tom Melancon: But also, just really, again, this openness to
Tom Melancon: Like, this is a time in my life when I think that this will benefit me.
Tom Melancon: And so I'm just kind of open to what happens.
Brian Mueller: So, when you think back to those rites, what's the first image that comes forth for you?
Tom Melancon: Well, and I'm going to be careful, I don't want to give anything away in case somebody hasn't gone to one and wants to, but you know, each I can say this, each day there they ask for a group of men to volunteer to help
Tom Melancon: Create a ritual, right?
Tom Melancon: And the very first day they asked for that, I volunteered.
Tom Melancon: I raised my hand.
Tom Melancon: Again, it was part of me.
Tom Melancon: I'm jumping in.
Tom Melancon: I'm going to get involved in this thing.
Tom Melancon: And I won't even describe the ritual, but there was this team that formed around that.
Tom Melancon: And for the rest of the retreat, we were a team.
Tom Melancon: Like, because we raised our hands for that, and because we got connected.
Tom Melancon: I mean, I connected with a lot of men at the retreat, but that was like my little posse.
Tom Melancon: You know, we hung out.
Tom Melancon: We we got to know each other because we
Tom Melancon: we participated in this pretty powerful ceremony that was very much at the beginning.
Tom Melancon: It was one of the first things that happened that everybody participated in, but we were facilitating that with the leaders.
Brian Mueller: And so that was one of the things that kind of really got me involved in the stories about fraternity.
Brian Mueller: Yeah, that's a big deal.
Brian Mueller: So was there a without, you know, obviously you're
Brian Mueller: You're very aware of the confidentiality and things like that.
Brian Mueller: And I don't want to ask you to share anything you don't, but was there a particular experience that you had while at the rites, or maybe even an encounter with another man, that was especially poignant for you?
Tom Melancon: Yeah, there were several, and I will be careful not to describe it, but there was a particular ritual that we were involved in.
Tom Melancon: I think I can say it involved grief.
Tom Melancon: I think it's not giving any way about it.
Tom Melancon: And it was extremely powerful.
Tom Melancon: And I
Tom Melancon: I found myself at at several points during that ritual just feeling like I had
Tom Melancon: I was able to let go of some things that I had been carrying around for a long time.
Tom Melancon: It was a way to ritually kind of represent
Tom Melancon: That and in the process of this ritual.
Tom Melancon: And that's the thing, these things were so well thought out.
Tom Melancon: I was just, every time I experienced one, so that was super powerful.
Tom Melancon: And then there was another
Tom Melancon: Another ritual it involved kind of interacting with almost every person in the every man in the room.
Tom Melancon: And this was one where we were kind of letting go of some things we'd carried around, some shame and guilt.
Tom Melancon: And then at the end of the
Tom Melancon: Process basically kind of connecting with another man.
Tom Melancon: And it was really, really powerful for me.
Tom Melancon: It really, the ritual is really where things pivot, right?
Tom Melancon: Absolutely.
Tom Melancon: Well, so just a funny story is after one of these events, I had cleaned myself up, but I hadn't completely cleaned my face up, and there was some some
Tom Melancon: Ash and I cried and stuff like that.
Tom Melancon: And this friend of mine from the that I'd gone to the retreat with, because he was there as one of the assistants.
Tom Melancon: People in the background.
Tom Melancon: So, Mark was there during the retreat, and I got to connect with him periodically.
Tom Melancon: He said, Tom, are you having a nice relaxing time here in Oregon?
Tom Melancon: He says, I should take a picture of your face.
Tom Melancon: And I said, yeah, it's not exactly like that.
Tom Melancon: I mean, it is great, but it's like it's not just like a summer camp.
Tom Melancon: It's - it's there's a lot going on here, you know.
Brian Mueller: Yeah, you're going to do some work, but it's so well that leads me into the next question.
Brian Mueller: So, when the event was open, the closing of the rites happened, and it was time to drive back to Seattle.
Brian Mueller: How were you feeling?
Tom Melancon: Well, that's a great question because what I experienced, and I feel like I'm still experiencing it to an extent, they talk about that liminal space that you get into, right, that you arrive in, and the rituals create it.
Tom Melancon: I felt like for weeks, maybe months afterwards, and I still feel it to an extent now that I was
Tom Melancon: That I had a, I was walking in a different state, like a, I mean, a kind of a state of grace.
Tom Melancon: It felt like, I don't know.
Tom Melancon: I mean, and again, I remember hearing and reading.
Tom Melancon: Richard Rohr talked about this.
Tom Melancon: The colors are brighter.
Tom Melancon: I can hear the birds and they sound differently because it was this experience really.
Tom Melancon: I walked in there one way and walked out another way.
Tom Melancon: And it's really.
Tom Melancon: Difficult to describe unless you've gone through it, you know?
Tom Melancon: But it but it really was different than just about anything I'd ever, maybe anything I've ever experienced.
Tom Melancon: Difficult to describe.
Tom Melancon: I mean, I think one of the things, and I don't remember who said this, Meister.
Tom Melancon: There was this, I'm going to garble the quote, but I'm going to try it.
Tom Melancon: Best things can't be talked about.
Tom Melancon: The second best things are often misunderstood.
Tom Melancon: So we end up talking about the third best things.
Brian Mueller: Yeah.
Tom Melancon: Right.
Tom Melancon: That kind of made sense to me.
Brian Mueller: No, it's hard to speak about the those transcendent experiences.
Brian Mueller: They're they're very deep.
Brian Mueller: And somehow it does feel like you you lose them when you do try to articulate them too.
Brian Mueller: So
Brian Mueller: Yeah, that's great.
Brian Mueller: So I also tell guys sometimes, if possible, take some time after the rites before you re-enter your normal life.
Brian Mueller: Not everybody has that luxury, but if you do, you definitely will benefit from some time to process.
Brian Mueller: So you come back and you tell your partner, maybe you tell some other people.
Brian Mueller: What was your report on the rites to others?
Tom Melancon: Well, I mean, I think like you just talked about, it was really difficult to describe.
Tom Melancon: The person that I could
Tom Melancon: Describe it to the best was Mark because he would been there and he'd been through the right deer for.
Tom Melancon: And so we talked about it a lot.
Tom Melancon: I decompressed with him quite a bit.
Tom Melancon: And, you know, I did, and I did let my
Tom Melancon: Partner to know what the experience was like and how it had impacted me.
Tom Melancon: And I was fortunate because I came back and I was still laid off.
Tom Melancon: I was still on administrative leave.
Tom Melancon: So I didn't have to go right back into work.
Tom Melancon: I did end up going back to work.
Tom Melancon: That year and ended up retiring at the end of September.
Tom Melancon: But yeah, I had some time to really kind of sink into it.
Tom Melancon: And I have a meditation practice that I do every day.
Tom Melancon: And so I was able to meditate it on every day.
Tom Melancon: And continue reading and trying to stay connected to it.
Brian Mueller: Yeah.
Brian Mueller: So, I mean, obviously, the rites came for you at a very transitional point in your life.
Brian Mueller: honestly for the country as well, right?
Brian Mueller: We had a new presidency that affected your job.
Brian Mueller: You're maybe transitioning, you're moving towards retirement, those sorts of things.
Brian Mueller: But what's changed in your life since the census rites, practically, relationally, spiritually, anything?
Tom Melancon: I think it's the rites had a big part of this.
Tom Melancon: When I got ready to retire, I had this
Tom Melancon: I have this friend who's a really bright guy, and we have lunch periodically.
Tom Melancon: And he said, Okay, well, now that you're retired, you have to build your scaffolding.
Tom Melancon: And I said, What does that mean?
Tom Melancon: And he says, Well, you know, whatever
Tom Melancon: Whatever your structure is that you're going to do, it's important to have it, you know.
Tom Melancon: And it was really good advice because when I finished work,
Tom Melancon: Last September, it took me a while to create it.
Tom Melancon: It it takes a while.
Tom Melancon: It is you kind of have to just kind of ease into it.
Tom Melancon: But I do.
Tom Melancon: I have this basic outline that I do every day, and there's a spiritual
Tom Melancon: Practice every day.
Tom Melancon: You know, I get up and meditate and pray every morning.
Tom Melancon: And that's something that I'd done before, but I have a little bit more intention about it now.
Tom Melancon: And then, you know, I met
Tom Melancon: position where I can, you know, because I've been doing this musical thing for so many years, I have, you know, I get together with guys and play music a couple of times a week.
Tom Melancon: I still am a
Tom Melancon: Part of this recovery program they're involved as, I'm pretty active in that.
Tom Melancon: I spend time with my partner, I travel, and I just think that
Tom Melancon: I've been given the opportunity to just be more reflective about my life because I'm not having to go to a full-time job every day.
Tom Melancon: I am still, you know, I'm on a board and I do a little bit of contract work, but I really have.
Tom Melancon: More time than I've ever had before, and I'm not having a hard time filling it up.
Tom Melancon: I have signed up for the Awaken
Tom Melancon: Event in November for Illuman.
Tom Melancon: Yeah, so I'm going to go to that.
Brian Mueller: I'm excited.
Brian Mueller: That's great.
Brian Mueller: That's the annual gathering of Illuman this year.
Brian Mueller: It's going to take place at Camp Glorietta outside of
Brian Mueller: Santa Fe.
Brian Mueller: How has your understanding of masculinity initiation or even the male purpose shifted over this time?
Tom Melancon: Well, that's a great question.
Tom Melancon: It's a it's a
Tom Melancon: A concept I've thought about, like I said, for many years.
Tom Melancon: Even my brother Stephen and I were talking about it way back when we went to the first event with Richard.
Tom Melancon: But really, I was really impressed with
Tom Melancon: Watching this group of men that was being initiated last summer.
Tom Melancon: You know, I think the youngest person in the room was like 24.
Tom Melancon: And there were men in there that were older, you know, that were in their 80s and a good cross-section in between.
Tom Melancon: And just how important it is, I think, right now, if you think about all the things that are happening in the world.
Tom Melancon: I mean, I heard about this.
Tom Melancon: I don't know if you heard about this.
Tom Melancon: There's like a social media thing going on right now with a, I think the young, the guy who's the leader of it is called Clavicular.
Tom Melancon: I mean, and it's basically around
Tom Melancon: Kind of almost destroying your body as a young man so that you have this particular form that you're trying to get to.
Tom Melancon: And it's not even realistic.
Tom Melancon: It's like
Tom Melancon: If I'm hearing it right, they're like hitting themselves in the face with like hammers to create a certain look, and then they're
Tom Melancon: Starving themselves and taking steroids so that they, you know, kind of have that Ken doll sort of thing.
Tom Melancon: And that is what young men are aspiring to, some young men.
Tom Melancon: And it just seems like, oh my God, that
Tom Melancon: Is is so tragic, and then we have this opportunity, and it's it's I think it's important for everyone, but especially for the young men.
Tom Melancon: To have another path, to have another opportunity of looking at life as a life of service rather than what can I get out of it, which is so much of our
Tom Melancon: By popular culture, you know.
Tom Melancon: I mean, good, good grief.
Tom Melancon: As hard as it's hard enough to be a young
Tom Melancon: man, and go through everything you go through, the changes that are happening, to have that to try to aspire to, I have to do that.
Tom Melancon: Like that just my heart breaks for anybody that feels like that's the path that they need to be on, you know.
Brian Mueller: Well, that's one of the things that maybe it's a good time to mention this.
Brian Mueller: One of the things we learn about in our men's work is about mentoring and how important it is for younger men to have a mentor, an older man who can appreciate them.
Brian Mueller: in a very real way and help mentor them throughout their life.
Brian Mueller: So yeah, I think we're speaking to some of that.
Brian Mueller: Let me ask you what counsel or advice you would give to a man who's currently debating whether or not to register or attend a rites of passage?
Tom Melancon: I would say go and in my experience and judgment, based on you know, 65 years beyond this planet, there's no way it's going to hurt you.
Tom Melancon: It can only help you.
Tom Melancon: It can only help.
Tom Melancon: And so if you're open to it at all, go in and lean in when you get there.
Brian Mueller: I'd also like to engage a little bit about 12-step work, specifically because I've been involved with Illuman for more than a decade now, and I would say that
Brian Mueller: A significant portion, perhaps a quarter, a third of the men that I encounter in Illumina have some sort of background in 12 steps.
Brian Mueller: And I include myself in that.
Brian Mueller: My first invitation into spiritual work came through Al-Anon.
Brian Mueller: And had I not participated in Al-Anon, I do not think I would have ever made a rites of passage.
Brian Mueller: I say that that first step
Brian Mueller: That it was a humbling step, the powerlessness that you have to admit over whatever it is in your life.
Brian Mueller: That sort of tilled the soil, you know, softened the soil, and made it possible, I think, for me to attend a man's rites of passage.
Brian Mueller: What can you tell others who might also be members of a twelve-step community and how the rites could kind of complement that experience?
Tom Melancon: Well, yeah, they're very complimentary.
Tom Melancon: I mean, that's one of the things that my friend Mark knew when he mentioned to me, you know, that he knew my experience with being in recovery and also interest in these.
Tom Melancon: Yeah, I think there's just a natural connection there.
Tom Melancon: The thing that I was one of the many things I was impressed with with Illuman was there was no
Tom Melancon: Definition of what your spiritual path was going to look like.
Tom Melancon: It was so open, which is the same with 12-step recovery.
Tom Melancon: There's not a definition that's given to God or higher power, whatever you want to call it.
Tom Melancon: The idea is find one.
Tom Melancon: find one and hang on.
Tom Melancon: And the other thing that is a really amazing parallel, you mentioned mentorship.
Tom Melancon: So I - one of the one of the best parts in my experience of the 12-step work is the mentoring because um
Tom Melancon: Typically, in whatever program you're involved in, you get a they call it a sponsor, but you get a person that guides you through the process.
Tom Melancon: I've had the same one for almost 25 years.
Tom Melancon: And in some ways, I mean, in some ways, he kind of raised me.
Tom Melancon: It's not like I was, you know, I was, I grew up in a family.
Tom Melancon: I had two parents.
Tom Melancon: But I just feel like I missed out on a lot of stuff.
Tom Melancon: Like I wasn't paying attention, or somebody else handed out the rule book and some basic things that you should know as a man in terms of honesty and integrity and just
Tom Melancon: All the stuff that you want to have, I felt like I kind of missed it somehow.
Tom Melancon: And so, working with this man that I still work with.
Tom Melancon: He walked me through it.
Tom Melancon: And I think there's parallels with that work and the work that happens in Illumina because there's this, like you said, this mentorship through the rituals and also the
Tom Melancon: Not to give away too much, but the small groups that happen while the process is going.
Tom Melancon: It's a great way to kind of amplify what's going on in the rituals and in the big room.
Tom Melancon: So I think the whole, the way it's put together,
Tom Melancon: there's r there's great parallels with anybody that's done his 12-step work.
Tom Melancon: It won't be alien to them.
Brian Mueller: Yeah, I'd say if you have 12-step experience, when you come to the rites, you may actually have a little bit of a head start over somebody that has not experienced that.
Brian Mueller: And the 12th step, the one about having us, having had a spiritual awakening.
Brian Mueller: I always like that because I think that that reminds us.
Brian Mueller: To continue, continue our spiritual journey.
Brian Mueller: And I always say that any good spiritual work has open doors and windows.
Brian Mueller: You know, it allows you to come and go.
Brian Mueller: And this is to say that you can walk out 12-step work.
Brian Mueller: Bill Newman, you can walk back into 12-step work.
Brian Mueller: You can do them simultaneously.
Brian Mueller: You can go on to something else, but you should never feel trapped by your spiritual journey.
Tom Melancon: Right.
Tom Melancon: Well, and one of the I think when I saw Richard, one of the times I saw him, I think he said, turn your video cameras off because I'm going to say something if you have a video or don't record this.
Tom Melancon: And he says something, and I'm going to paraphrase it, that in his experience, some of the most authentic spiritual experiences he's seen have happened.
Tom Melancon: Occurring twelve groups.
Tom Melancon: I mean, and that was pretty profound coming from a theologian of his stature, right?
Tom Melancon: So, yeah, there's something going on there.
Brian Mueller: So, yeah, no, I was just going to mention about you probably read Breathing Underwater.
Brian Mueller: Did so Richard encountered the 12 Steps and was really taken by its spirituality and
Brian Mueller: Yeah, wrote a whole book about it as he often does.
Tom Melancon: But yeah, that's a great reference.
Tom Melancon: It's a really, really good book if you want to connect the dots between, you know, the kind of spirituality that's in the Lumen and what's taught in the Twelve Steps.
Tom Melancon: It really is a good a good text.
Brian Mueller: Tom, I'm really glad you reached out to me and that we've been able to have this conversation.
Brian Mueller: I just want to add, is there anything else you'd like to add about your experience or anything about your earlier experiences with men's work?
Tom Melancon: No, I just really appreciate the opportunity, Brian.
Tom Melancon: It's been a pleasure.
Tom Melancon: It's great to talk about this stuff.
Brian Mueller: Brother, I look forward to seeing you at Awaken.
Brian Mueller: And I really want to thank you today for your honesty and your courage and for giving us a window into your experience at the Men's Rites of Passage.
Brian Mueller: Thank you.
Brian Mueller: For those listening who are now feeling a tug in their own soul, and are curious to learn more, allow me to share a bit about the history of these rites.
Brian Mueller: The men's rites of passage was originally developed by Father Richard
Brian Mueller: and was first offered at Ghost Ranch, New Mexico, in nineteen ninety six.
Brian Mueller: While it was imported for many years by the Center for Action and Contemplation, since twenty twelve Illuman has been the steward of this work, preserving and adapting the rites for men all over the world.
Brian Mueller: To learn more about the history and the theology behind this work, I highly recommend reading Adam's Return by Richard Rohr.
Brian Mueller: If you are ready to make your rites, there are four opportunities in the United States and another in the United Kingdom in twenty-twenty six.
Brian Mueller: The first is in Northern California, may thirteenth through the seventeenth, the second in the United Kingdom, July twenty second through the twenty sixth, and in Illinois, August twelfth through the sixteenth.
Brian Mueller: There's one on the East Coast, in New Jersey, September sixteenth through the twentieth, and the final one of the year is in Texas, which is in MROPN Umbrales, our Spanish language rites, September thirtieth through October fourth.
Brian Mueller: You can find details and registration information at Illuman dot
Brian Mueller: org slash MROP or Illuman dot
Brian Mueller: org slash events.
Brian Mueller: Additionally, mark your calendars for Awaken, the annual national gathering of Illuman, taking place November fifth through the eighth in New Mexico.
Brian Mueller: You can find more at Illuman dot
Brian Mueller: org slash awaken.
Brian Mueller: Finally, a special thank you to our sponsor, Choosing Presence.
Brian Mueller: If today's conversation moved you, I encourage you to bring more intentionality into your daily life.
Brian Mueller: Download the Practicing Presence app for free at choosingpresence dot org slash app.
Brian Mueller: It's a simple but profound way to stay connected to the journey we've discussed today.
Brian Mueller: Thank you for listening to follow me to the MROP.
Brian Mueller: Until next time, brothers, stay present.