Brian Mueller: Welcome to Follow Me to the MROP, a podcast dedicated to the journey of
Brian Mueller: the masculine soul and the transformative power of initiation. My name is Brian Mueller.
Brian Mueller: I live in suburban Dayton, Ohio, and I made my rites at Pilgrim Park
Brian Mueller: in Illinois in twenty fourteen.
Brian Mueller: I'm your host, and in each episode of our show I'll sit down with
Brian Mueller: one man who has made his rites, and I'll invite him to tell his
Brian Mueller: story.
Brian Mueller: This won't be an abstract explanation or a theological lecture, just a real conversation
Brian Mueller: about what it was like to cross that threshold at the Rites and what
Brian Mueller: changed afterward. Before we begin, a quick word of gratitude.
Brian Mueller: This podcast is brought to you by Choosing Presence.
Brian Mueller: We believe that the greatest gift a man can give his community is his
Brian Mueller: own presence.
Brian Mueller: In a world of constant distraction, choosing presence provides the tools to help you
Brian Mueller: stay grounded in the now.
Brian Mueller: If you'd like an easy way to begin learning about the practice of presence,
Brian Mueller: you can download the free Practicing Presence app at choosingpresence dot org slash app.
Brian Mueller: Now the Men's Rites of Passage, or MROP, is an experience designed to help
Brian Mueller: men move from the first half of life into the second, shifting from a
Brian Mueller: focus on ego and achievement to a life of meaning and soul.
Brian Mueller: On this show, we just don't talk about the rites in theory, we talk
Brian Mueller: to the men who have walked the path.
Brian Mueller: Today we are joined by a man who has made his rites, and we're
Brian Mueller: going to hear exactly what that journey looked like for him.
Brian Mueller: My guest today is Rich Horton. Brother, I'm really glad you're here.
Brian Mueller: Thanks for making the time and for being willing to share your story.
Rich Horton: I'm glad to be here and really willing to share my story.
Brian Mueller: Rich, tell us where you're from and how you spend your time these days.
Rich Horton: Well, I'm originally from Northeast Ohio, outside of Cleveland, but for the last almost
Rich Horton: ten years now I have lived in Columbus, Ohio.
Rich Horton: And love love Ohio for the most part. Love the topography and the people.
Rich Horton: It's a very welcoming Columbus in particular is a very welcoming community.
Brian Mueller: How do you keep busy these days?
Rich Horton: Oh well, I have a lot of interests.
Rich Horton: And one of them, of course, is I facilitate The Columbus Council of Illuman,
Rich Horton: which I have been doing now for almost nine years. And I love it.
Rich Horton: It's really a great group. And our group is getting a bit large.
Rich Horton: We have between eight and ten almost every month.
Rich Horton: And sometimes we get twelve, which is a little bit tight around my dining
Rich Horton: room table. But it's always very, very enjoyable.
Rich Horton: And so that's one of my major interests.
Rich Horton: The other one is: I am president of the Columbus, Ohio Prime Timers, which
Rich Horton: is a group of almost a hundred mature gay men and those that like
Rich Horton: them. A social group and a lot of wonderful men.
Rich Horton: And then my other major interest is my church.
Rich Horton: I'm on the vestry of St. Stephen's Episcopal.
Rich Horton: and University Center on the campus of Ohio State University.
Rich Horton: Plus I sing in the choir, and I do all the flowers for the
Rich Horton: church.
Brian Mueller: Wow. Yeah, you do keep busy. Well, thank you for all that.
Brian Mueller: Now, let's dive in and talk about the men's rites of passage.
Brian Mueller: The MROP is a unique experience.
Brian Mueller: It's not a retreat or a workshop, but it's an initiation.
Brian Mueller: Many men arrive at the rites at a crossroads in their lives looking for
Brian Mueller: something they can't quite name.
Brian Mueller: Before we dive into the why and the how, let's start at the very
Brian Mueller: beginning. When and where did you make your rites, Rich?
Rich Horton: I did my MROP in twenty fourteen.
Rich Horton: And in Illinois, it was a beautiful setting.
Rich Horton: I can't remember the name of the park, but it was really, really lovely.
Rich Horton: We've had a lot of natural areas, which beats my heart since I'm also
Rich Horton: a naturalist. So it was really, really lovely.
Rich Horton: And I will never forget walking in that very first night.
Rich Horton: And this was with the ritual drumming and the smiles on so many people's
Rich Horton: faces.
Rich Horton: There's probably well over thirty men, I think, there at that re at that
Rich Horton: MROP. And one of the first feelings that I had was welcome.
Rich Horton: It was probably the first time I did something like this since I came
Rich Horton: out as a gay man back in 19 oh gosh 89 long time ago
Rich Horton: but I never felt in any way this is the problem being there back
Rich Horton: I felt so encouraged to participate and be a part of everything that was
Rich Horton: going on.
Brian Mueller: That's terrific. So I believe it was Pilgrim Park that you were at.
Brian Mueller: That's where the rites are in Illinois. Who was your weaver?
Rich Horton: Oh, that was Belden Lane. Oh, what an incredible man.
Rich Horton: He was one of the ones that really set the tone of the whole
Rich Horton: experience. I think I connected with him.
Rich Horton: I still believe that he was a retired minister.
Rich Horton: And I had in 2014, I had just completed my training to become a
Rich Horton: spiritual director.
Rich Horton: And so it was kind of like I was moving from that whole new
Rich Horton: chapter of my life because I had been retired basically since 2009.
Rich Horton: And looking for how I could transfer my life or the rest of my
Rich Horton: life in my journey. It was the right decision.
Rich Horton: To come to Pilgrim Park and be a part of it.
Brian Mueller: And when you think back to that weekend, what are the images or what
Brian Mueller: is the image or the feeling that really comes forth for you?
Rich Horton: I don't think I will ever forget the rituals. They were powerful.
Rich Horton: In fact, just sitting here now, I remember the one with the broken mirror,
Rich Horton: you know, that whole experience of shattering the past.
Rich Horton: Looking into where I've come from, that ritual wasn't the only one, but that
Rich Horton: was the one that stuck with me.
Rich Horton: And in fact, I still have pieces with that mirror and a shadow box
Rich Horton: in my study here.
Rich Horton: It was just and again I remember because I was part of a ritual,
Rich Horton: and I remember on my hands and knees going to every man in the
Rich Horton: circle. and looking into their eyes. And I'll never forget it.
Brian Mueller: Powerful.
Brian Mueller: Now, without sharing anything you might consider confidential, is there a particular story or
Brian Mueller: moment at the rites that stood out to you, maybe even an encounter with
Brian Mueller: somebody else?
Rich Horton: Well, there was one of the men who was I don't know if he
Rich Horton: was one of the presenter.
Rich Horton: And I think that I remember him the most because he shared so deeply
Rich Horton: the pain of Being abused sexually.
Rich Horton: And while I was never abused sexually, I was abused emotionally.
Rich Horton: And it touched me because One of the things that and I'm willing to
Rich Horton: share this, one of the things that has always been a crossroads for me
Rich Horton: is in the time I was five years old and my father told me
Rich Horton: he didn't want a sissy for his sons. I knew why it was different.
Rich Horton: And it took me forty five years to finally come to terms with that.
Rich Horton: and to deal with it.
Rich Horton: But it was that came forth also in the rite of passage, that the
Rich Horton: pain of that experience in the past.
Rich Horton: But then the overcoming of that pain and the transformational every time I think
Rich Horton: about the MROP, I think about transformation.
Rich Horton: And for me, there were all those nuggets of old that I hold on
Rich Horton: to that I got at that retreat. It was truly a rite of passage.
Brian Mueller: Now I want to take you back to the decision to go to the
Brian Mueller: rites.
Brian Mueller: I know you said that you retired about 2009, so you were still relatively
Brian Mueller: early in your retirement.
Brian Mueller: But you also said you had just completed your spiritual direction.
Brian Mueller: Can you tell us a little bit more about the circumstances, though, that led
Brian Mueller: up to your decision to go ahead and register and participate in the rites?
Rich Horton: I had been a part of the training program to become a spiritual director
Rich Horton: for two years. I started in 2012. I was kind of at a crossroads.
Rich Horton: I had been in a short-term relationship with a wonderful man, but a man
Rich Horton: who was not available to me, really. emotionally and even physically.
Rich Horton: And so I didn't know where my life was going.
Rich Horton: And even though I had retired I retired from full-time work in 2005, and
Rich Horton: then I worked 20 hours a week for the next three years.
Rich Horton: But in 2009, I retired completely.
Rich Horton: And so I felt that I was at a crossroads.
Rich Horton: It was one of the reasons I went into spiritual direction training.
Rich Horton: After being pulled greatly by my own spiritual directors and another friend who just
Rich Horton: raved about this program, the spiritual direction program.
Rich Horton: So then when I finished the program, it was like, okay, where do I
Rich Horton: go from here? You know, it was 2014.
Rich Horton: I was in my early 70s at that point, and it was like, okay,
Rich Horton: what do I do?
Rich Horton: But I also As part of my spiritual direction training in that, I had
Rich Horton: really gotten in touch with my own spirituality, and I wanted to deepen that.
Rich Horton: And I felt that going to the men's rites of passage would help me
Rich Horton: get more in touch. With their true self, that's deep within them.
Brian Mueller: Now, when you entered the rites, was there something that you were hoping for,
Brian Mueller: something that you were looking to be initiated into?
Rich Horton: I guess for me, it was to be initiated into the world of helping
Rich Horton: masculinity.
Rich Horton: Having grown up for so many years feeling that I wasn't I wasn't physically
Rich Horton: attractive. I certainly didn't think. Turns out I was wrong. But I really.
Rich Horton: I wanted to really go deeper for myself in my journey.
Brian Mueller: Was there anything, though, on the flip side that you were fearing or any
Brian Mueller: fear that you had entering into the rites?
Rich Horton: Well, I think as a gay man, I was fearful of coming into a
Rich Horton: group of men who I assumed would be majority heterosexual.
Rich Horton: That was probably my only fear.
Rich Horton: I had gotten beyond that a little bit, having come out in 89, but
Rich Horton: I had also gone through some very severe trauma.
Rich Horton: my teaching career where I had a superintendent tried to fire me for no
Rich Horton: reason really because I was gay.
Rich Horton: So There was always a hesitancy for me to get involved with other men
Rich Horton: and would I be accepted. Or the man I am.
Brian Mueller: Who did you share your decision to attend the rites with, if anyone?
Rich Horton: That's a good question. I don't have much family here in Ohio.
Rich Horton: I think the only one I shared it with was my were my two
Rich Horton: sons.
Rich Horton: And they were supportive, even though they didn't quite understand what I was doing.
Rich Horton: They go, Dad, you're going to an initiation program for men and you're how
Rich Horton: old That was kind of the attitude, but they were still supporters.
Brian Mueller: Now, the rites lasts for parts of five days.
Brian Mueller: It's a long event, but we all get through it. You get through it.
Brian Mueller: How did you feel in that immediate period as you were leaving Pilgrim Park
Brian Mueller: and heading back home?
Rich Horton: I was riding on a club.
Rich Horton: I'm remembering that there was a time in the afternoon one day of that
Rich Horton: retreat where we were to go off by our fell, which we did a
Rich Horton: lot of, but this was a really significant amount of time.
Rich Horton: And I found myself sitting amongst the trees and really meditating on what are
Rich Horton: the What are the nuggets of gold, the crystals of whatever diamonds, whatever you
Rich Horton: want to call them? But what are they that make up my soul?
Rich Horton: And it was while I was sitting there that it came to me something
Rich Horton: that I had discovered even a number of years before, but had not really
Rich Horton: taken to heart, and that was that I am the possibility of love, joy,
Rich Horton: and wonder.
Rich Horton: And that was totally affirmed at that initiation program, men's rite of passage.
Rich Horton: And so as I came out of that experience All I wanted was more.
Rich Horton: I still fear how I wanted to do more. I wanted to feel more.
Rich Horton: I wanted to be more a part of What it means to be a
Rich Horton: healthy man, spiritually grounded through love.
Brian Mueller: That's beautiful.
Brian Mueller: So you come back and I imagine you spoke to your sons again, but
Brian Mueller: who all did you tell about the rites and maybe how did some of
Brian Mueller: those conversations change?
Rich Horton: Well, I was very fortunate because Before I even went on the right, I
Rich Horton: had already formed a men's group in outside of Cleveland, east side of Cleveland.
Rich Horton: So I was very eager to get back and to share my experience with
Rich Horton: the men. So that's who I shared it with.
Rich Horton: And I hope that maybe some of those men went on to do their
Rich Horton: own That's right, it passes. I think some of them did.
Brian Mueller: Are you continuing to have new realizations?
Brian Mueller: Is there anything that is continuing to emerge in your life that is coming
Brian Mueller: out of those rites that rites experience you had?
Rich Horton: I think one of the biggest things that has really stuck with me is
Rich Horton: the fact that I need to go into silent, deep meditation.
Rich Horton: And connect with, I call them my angels or my spiritual guides or whatever,
Rich Horton: but connect with God and feel the present every single day.
Rich Horton: And as I've shared with many of my own helpful members here in Columbus,
Rich Horton: I have a spirit guide that visits me almost every day in the form
Rich Horton: of a red cardinal. And it is truly a spirit guide.
Rich Horton: And I walk out my door in the morning at like 6:30, 7 o'clock
Rich Horton: to take the dog out.
Rich Horton: And there's my cardinal singing on the top of the tree.
Rich Horton: So my connection with nature is deep and deep and more.
Rich Horton: I just feel like My life is still evolving, is still growing.
Rich Horton: I'm going to be 83 in a month.
Rich Horton: And I just love the experiences that I've had and how it has created
Rich Horton: such a positive journey for me.
Rich Horton: And I think about the journey of eliminations, following the men’s rites of passage.
Rich Horton: I still deal with that. I still go with that.
Rich Horton: My life is full of present every single hour of every single day.
Rich Horton: And I experience that with the contact that I have with the other people
Rich Horton: that come into my life, which is a lot.
Brian Mueller: Thank you, Rich. I love the image of a cardinal as your spirit guide.
Brian Mueller: I think that's beautiful.
Brian Mueller: Let me ask, has anything how is your how has your understanding of masculinity
Brian Mueller: initiation or purpose shifted since your experience at the rites and all the years
Brian Mueller: of work in between?
Rich Horton: I think what I've come to realize is that an awful lot of men
Rich Horton: have learned the wrong kinds of things about who they are.
Rich Horton: And I think in many ways they are craving an experience like I've had
Rich Horton: with Illuman and continue to have.
Rich Horton: And I can remember once I was sharing like I was actually sharing that
Rich Horton: I was going to this wonderful writing retreat.
Rich Horton: In January, sponsored by Ohio Illuman and led by you and another man -
Rich Horton: Tom.
Rich Horton: And the women were at most of the men most of the practitioners at
Rich Horton: the Reiki Center are women.
Rich Horton: And they were saying, you know, us women have these kinds of relationships, but
Rich Horton: so many men do not.
Rich Horton: They were so excited and wanted to share what I was doing with the
Rich Horton: men in their line.
Brian Mueller: So what counsel or advice would you give to a man who is currently
Brian Mueller: kind of discerning whether or not to register or participate in our rites of
Brian Mueller: passage?
Rich Horton: I think the first thing to do is to go into prayer and to
Rich Horton: really focus on what it is you're looking for in your life.
Rich Horton: And what is hampering you or holding you back?
Rich Horton: And then, as you approach it in meditation and prayer, and compassion for yourself,
Rich Horton: come to a decision that this could be a really important step.
Rich Horton: for continuing your journey as a helping man in our society.
Brian Mueller: I just have really one more question for you.
Brian Mueller: And I want our listeners to know that you and I were both initiates
Brian Mueller: of the same rites of passage and Rich, you're a very dear man to
Brian Mueller: me, and we've been in community together since that time and have really both
Brian Mueller: been on our own journeys of illumination and our together journey.
Brian Mueller: And you've done a lot for gay men.
Brian Mueller: I think that's a particular part of your spiritual journey.
Brian Mueller: And I would just like to hear a little bit more about your experience
Brian Mueller: as a gay man within Illuman and also what you might share with other
Brian Mueller: men about not just about Illuman, but your own individual experience, what it means.
Rich Horton: I guess.
Rich Horton: The thing that strikes me every time I listen to it or watch it
Rich Horton: is the welcome that was given at Awaken, the first Awaken in Virginia that
Rich Horton: I went to.
Rich Horton: And that is the experience that I want other gay men to have is
Rich Horton: we are all welcome. And this journey is for all men.
Rich Horton: I just, you know, I think back to my own council here in Columbus.
Rich Horton: We have just gone through a big loss.
Rich Horton: One of our members died just the Monday after Easter.
Rich Horton: And our council meet tonight without Don.
Rich Horton: And it has just been such an incredible experience to be with men.
Rich Horton: And it doesn't matter if you're gay or straight or bi or just, you
Rich Horton: know, what matters is you're present.
Rich Horton: And to be present and to listen from the heart. Here comes the guidelines.
Rich Horton: Listen from the heart and speak from the heart.
Rich Horton: Every night when every month when we finish our council, I turn to my
Rich Horton: husband and I'd say, I don't know what I would do without 11.
Rich Horton: And without them and support for my journey, as well as supporting others in
Rich Horton: their journey.
Brian Mueller: Would you like to speak the name of the man who passed away into
Brian Mueller: the you know as a blessing and just a memory for him?
Brian Mueller: I know he was a member of our community for a while.
Rich Horton: Donovan Vicha.
Rich Horton: He’s been a member of the Columbus Council since it was formed nine years
Rich Horton: ago.
Rich Horton: And he's very dear to me, and I - we are lighting a special
Rich Horton: candle tonight at council.
Rich Horton: And so with the blessings that we will be sharing, I bless Don in
Rich Horton: my heart right now.
Rich Horton: Because he's been so much a part of our journey together.
Rich Horton: I'm sorry, I don't get emotional. Sure, sure. But yeah, Donovan.
Brian Mueller: Brother, thank you deeply. I love you.
Brian Mueller: I appreciate your honesty, your courage, and for you giving us a window into
Brian Mueller: your MROP experience and beyond. Thank you, Rich.
Rich Horton: Oh, I'm very grateful to do it. Thank you, and love you too.
Brian Mueller: For those listening who are now feeling a tug in their own soul and
Brian Mueller: are curious to learn more, allow me to share a bit about the history
Brian Mueller: of these rites.
Brian Mueller: The Men's Rites of Passage was originally developed by Father Richard Rohr, and was
Brian Mueller: first offered at Ghost Ranch, New Mexico, in nineteen ninety six.
Brian Mueller: While it was supported for many years by the Center for Action and Contemplation,
Brian Mueller: since twenty twelve a Lumen has been the steward of this work.
Brian Mueller: Preserving and adapting the rites for men all over the world.
Brian Mueller: To learn more about the history and the theology behind this work, I highly
Brian Mueller: recommend reading “Adam's Return” by Richard Rohr.
Brian Mueller: If you are ready to make your rites, there are four opportunities in the
Brian Mueller: United States and another in the United Kingdom in twenty-twenty six.
Brian Mueller: The first is in Northern California, may thirteenth through the seventeenth the second in
Brian Mueller: the United Kingdom, July twenty second through the twenty sixth.
Brian Mueller: and in Illinois, August twelfth through the sixteenth.
Brian Mueller: There's one on the East Coast, in New Jersey, September sixteenth through the twentieth
Brian Mueller: and the final one of the year is in Texas, which is in MROP
Brian Mueller: and Umbrales, our Spanish language rites, September thirtieth through October fourth.
Brian Mueller: You can find details and registration information at Illuman dot org slash MROP or
Brian Mueller: Illuman. org slash events.
Brian Mueller: Additionally, mark your calendars for Awaken, the annual national gathering of Illuman, taking place
Brian Mueller: November fifth through the eighth in New Mexico.
Brian Mueller: You can find more at Illuman dot org slash awaken.
Brian Mueller: Finally, a special thank you to our sponsor, Choosing Presence.
Brian Mueller: If today's conversation moved you, I encourage you to bring more intentionality into your
Brian Mueller: daily life.
Brian Mueller: Download the Practicing Presence app for free at choosingpresence dot org slash app.
Brian Mueller: It's a simple but profound way to stay connected to the journey we've discussed
Brian Mueller: today. Thank you for listening to follow me to the MROP.
Brian Mueller: Until next time, brothers, stay present.