Brian Mueller: 00:03
Brian Mueller: Welcome to Follow Me to the MROP, a podcast dedicated to the journey of
Brian Mueller: the masculine soul and the transformative power of initiation. My name is Brian Mueller.
Brian Mueller: I live in suburban Dayton, Ohio, and I made my rites at Pilgrim Park
Brian Mueller: in Illinois in twenty fourteen.
Brian Mueller: I'm your host, and in each episode of our show I'll sit down with
Brian Mueller: one man who has made his rites, and I'll invite him to tell his
Brian Mueller: story.
Brian Mueller: This won't be an abstract explanation or a theological lecture, just a real conversation
Brian Mueller: about what it was like to cross that threshold at the Rites and what
Brian Mueller: changed afterward. Before we begin, a quick word of gratitude.
Brian Mueller: This podcast is brought to you by choosing Presence.
Brian Mueller: We believe that the greatest gift a man can give his community is his
Brian Mueller: own presence.
Brian Mueller: In a world of constant distraction, choosing presence provides the tools to help you
Brian Mueller: stay grounded in the now.
Brian Mueller: If you'd like an easy way to begin learning about the practice of presence,
Brian Mueller: you can download the free Practicing Presence app at choosingpresence. org slash app.
Brian Mueller: Now the Men's Rites of Passage, or MROP, is an experience designed to help
Brian Mueller: men move from the first half of life into the second, shifting from a
Brian Mueller: focus on ego and achievement to a life of meaning and soul.
Brian Mueller: On this show, we just don't talk about the rites in theory, we talk
Brian Mueller: to the men who have walked the path.
Brian Mueller: Today we are joined by a man who has made his rites, and we're
Brian Mueller: going to hear exactly what that journey looked like for him.
Brian Mueller: My guest today is Gary Maher. Brother, I'm really glad you're here.
Brian Mueller: Thanks for making the time and for being willing to share your story.
Gary Meagher: 01:31
Gary Meagher: Oh, no. Thank you, Brian. Thank you for asking me.
Brian Mueller: 01:33
Brian Mueller: Gary, tell us where you're from and how you spend your time these days.
Brian Mueller: Oh, Lordy.
Gary Meagher: 01:39
Gary Meagher: I'm from Planet Earth, but my home is in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
Gary Meagher: I am a proud Badger. I have lived most of my life here.
Gary Meagher: Even though I spent time in New York City and Chicago.
Gary Meagher: professionally and school-wise, but I've and spent most of my life in in the
Gary Meagher: Madison and Milwaukee areas of Wisconsin.
Gary Meagher: And I Have been lucky enough that for the past many years I'm retired.
Gary Meagher: I'm retired. I spent wandering.
Gary Meagher: After college, I was a I worked for a textbook publisher.
Gary Meagher: I thought I was going to be a rare book dealer, and I went
Gary Meagher: to school for that and worked in the trade for five years.
Gary Meagher: I realized there's no way to support a family.
Gary Meagher: I found a company that was very nurturing and foresighted and it was in
Gary Meagher: the printing industry, which I knew nothing about, but they said, well, we'll take
Gary Meagher: you on and we'll train you. 26 years later, I retired.
Gary Meagher: It was a good ride. It was a very good ride.
Brian Mueller: 02:42
Brian Mueller: Now, let's dive in and talk about the men's rites of passage.
Brian Mueller: The MROP is a unique experience.
Brian Mueller: It's not a retreat or a workshop, it's an initiation.
Brian Mueller: Many men arrive at the rites at a crossroads in their lives, looking for
Brian Mueller: something they can't quite name.
Brian Mueller: Before we dive into the why and the how, let's start at the very
Brian Mueller: beginning. When and where did you make your rites?
Gary Meagher: 02:58
Gary Meagher: When and where? Okay, well, now I'm really aging myself or dating myself.
Gary Meagher: It was 2008. So that's coming on 18 years ago. It was in Illinois.
Gary Meagher: Was watching the Center for Action Contemplation's calendar and saw that there was going
Gary Meagher: to be what was called the men's rites of passage in Illinois at a
Gary Meagher: place called Pilgrim Park.
Gary Meagher: And I had been stalking my wife and I had been stalking Richard Rohr
Gary Meagher: for many years, and I was aware of his wild man.
Gary Meagher: Work that he had been doing, and also that he had been going and
Gary Meagher: created this thing called the men's rites of passage.
Gary Meagher: So I thought, well, you know, I think I'm ready.
Gary Meagher: I was 55 at the time.
Gary Meagher: Hitting that point where you become a little more reflective, or the past is
Gary Meagher: speeding away from you, and the future looks kind of dark or hazy.
Gary Meagher: So I thought, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it.
Gary Meagher: So I went to Pilgrim Park, signed up, and the weaver was Richard Rohr,
Gary Meagher: and the ritual elder was Steven Pika.
Gary Meagher: Who was the director at the CAC at the time? And I distinctly remember.
Gary Meagher: This may be your next question, Brian.
Gary Meagher: So I don't want to jump all over this, but I distinctly remember driving
Gary Meagher: to it. It felt like I was almost on a dream.
Gary Meagher: crossing the flat plains of Illinois and then getting into the river valleys of
Gary Meagher: north central Illinois where Pilgrim Park is and descending from these cornfields down into
Gary Meagher: this valley of Illinois.
Gary Meagher: A cradle or a womb or a grave, whatever you want to call it,
Gary Meagher: but down to Pilgrim Park. And there was a man standing there welcoming me.
Gary Meagher: It was Bill McElroy. I went and parked my car.
Gary Meagher: There was another man named Bob Colreesi, welcoming people in and giving everyone a
Gary Meagher: hug. Both of those guys to this day are two of my closest friends.
Gary Meagher: So it was a good beginning.
Brian Mueller: 04:59
Brian Mueller: A very good beginning.
Brian Mueller: In general terms, how would you describe that weekend for yourself?
Gary Meagher: 05:07
Gary Meagher: It was a blur. That's about as general as I could get.
Gary Meagher: It was definitely a blur. I had read a couple of the books.
Gary Meagher: I don't know if Adam's Return was put out at that time.
Gary Meagher: But I had read from Wild Man to Wise Man and some of Richard's
Gary Meagher: early books, Why Be Catholic? and so on.
Gary Meagher: So I had a general idea of the path that I was hoping the
Gary Meagher: Wrights would go on.
Gary Meagher: I thought, okay, I'm going to bring some books and read them when I'm
Gary Meagher: in nature Until I realize, no, books are locked up.
Gary Meagher: This is not about going somewhere else. This is about going inward.
Gary Meagher: So, yeah, I think I'm straying from your question here, but how would I
Gary Meagher: describe that week? It was. It went by very fast and very slowly.
Gary Meagher: When you're in liminal time, traditional time takes on a whole different dimension.
Gary Meagher: I felt like I was suspended.
Gary Meagher: I think it was a look back, sort of suspended between here and there.
Brian Mueller: 06:07
Brian Mueller: Now, without sharing anything you consider confidential, tell us about some of the elements
Brian Mueller: of the rites that stood out for you.
Gary Meagher: 06:13
Gary Meagher: Well, they were I think the rites in in particular were had a certain
Gary Meagher: amount of shock value to me, which is probably what I exactly what I
Gary Meagher: needed. To take me out of my thinking head, my thinking frame.
Gary Meagher: They were visceral.
Gary Meagher: I kept trying to retreat into an intellectual Perceptive mode, and the rites would
Gary Meagher: not allow me to do that, which is exactly what they're meant to be.
Gary Meagher: So, my I guess reaction to the rites were that was sort of yeah,
Gary Meagher: just felt like I was floating or suspended.
Brian Mueller: 06:56
Brian Mueller: Was there one particular event or ritual or interaction even that you had that
Brian Mueller: really stands out to you in reflection?
Gary Meagher: 07:03
Gary Meagher: Well, there are many.
Gary Meagher: The story I tell over and over again that really doesn't reveal what the
Gary Meagher: rites are about is the first day after arriving, after spending a night in
Gary Meagher: the cabin.
Gary Meagher: I was at breakfast and there was a seat open next to me, and
Gary Meagher: Richard Rohr came over and sat down. And he said, Hi, I'm Richard.
Gary Meagher: I am Gary. And so on. And so how did you sleep last night?
Gary Meagher: And I said, being sort of a wise acre, I thought, okay, well, I
Gary Meagher: said, I slept about as well as you could expect, considering I was on
Gary Meagher: a one-inch mattress, it was on top of a plywood board.
Gary Meagher: Surrounded by seven men who were snoring.
Gary Meagher: And he leaned in and he said, That's exactly the point.
Gary Meagher: And I thought, Oh, damn. I flunked the test.
Gary Meagher: But what he's telling me is that this is limited space.
Gary Meagher: This is not meant to be easy.
Gary Meagher: This is not meant to be a retreat.
Gary Meagher: This is meant to be a journey. So that still sticks out with me.
Gary Meagher: I tell that story many to anyone who will stop and listen.
Gary Meagher: But there are many, many other Images from those five days that stick with
Gary Meagher: me, but I think that that was a good opener.
Brian Mueller: 08:12
Brian Mueller: Well, you mentioned earlier that You and your wife were knew about Richard for
Brian Mueller: a while and were familiarizing yourself with his work and following the CAC, and
Brian Mueller: you learned about the Men’s Rites of Passage.
Brian Mueller: But can you talk a little bit about the circumstances in your life?
Brian Mueller: What was going on at that time that kind of led to your participation
Brian Mueller: or just happened to be coincidental with your participation?
Gary Meagher: 08:33
Gary Meagher: Sure, sure. No, it's as I said, I was fifty-five.
Gary Meagher: And at that time, the CAC, which was running the rites, kind of said,
Gary Meagher: if you're 55 or older, maybe this maybe you're too old.
Gary Meagher: I thought, oh, man, have I missed this?
Gary Meagher: And unfortunately, that's been re-revised and re rethought through.
Gary Meagher: But I was at that point, my kids were in college.
Gary Meagher: The mortgage was getting paid off.
Gary Meagher: I was living comfortably, but I knew I hungered for a deeper dive.
Gary Meagher: I hungered for a deeper dive. I like to.
Gary Meagher: kind of equate our journey and did especially the rites and the work that
Gary Meagher: Illuman does is jumping into the deep end of the pool where you have
Gary Meagher: nothing underneath you. I also like it.
Gary Meagher: Maybe using the image of a pearl diver.
Gary Meagher: You go down into the unknown, you find these clams, and you look for
Gary Meagher: the pearl.
Gary Meagher: You look for that great connection, that great connection in the deep end.
Gary Meagher: So I think that's what I was searching for.
Gary Meagher: I was searching for something greater, something that would make me that would help
Gary Meagher: my journey. I understood that I was on a journey.
Gary Meagher: I understood that if I did not take a few steps, My journey might
Gary Meagher: take me in a different direction.
Gary Meagher: So that was pretty much my state of mind at the time.
Gary Meagher: I was ready. I was definitely ready.
Gary Meagher: And I was open, but what I got Who knows? It still reverberates.
Brian Mueller: 10:08
Brian Mueller: I hear you saying that you were maybe hoping for some personal and spiritual
Brian Mueller: growth at the Rites. Was there anything that you feared in attending the Rites?
Gary Meagher: 10:17
Gary Meagher: Well, You go into something like this and my makeup on the Enneagram.
Gary Meagher: I'm a five. I'm an oldest child of Four boys.
Gary Meagher: You know, vulnerability is not something we like to do or show very well.
Gary Meagher: So I was not comfortable or prepared necessarily for the amount of vulnerability that
Gary Meagher: was required. During these rites. So, yeah, that was a big thing.
Gary Meagher: I'm not certain if I'm answering your question or going in a different direction
Gary Meagher: here, Brian. That's kind of my mind.
Gary Meagher: As I look back on myself 18 years ago, I think that was a
Gary Meagher: big part of it.
Brian Mueller: 11:01
Brian Mueller: Now, as you got in your, so the rites ended, it's a big event.
Brian Mueller: It lasts parts of five days.
Brian Mueller: But you there does come there is a moment when you're able to pack
Brian Mueller: up and drive away. You're heading back to Milwaukee.
Brian Mueller: How did you feel immediately after the rites?
Gary Meagher: 11:17
Gary Meagher: I felt very calm. I felt very calm.
Gary Meagher: I was grateful for my three and a half hour drive back because it
Gary Meagher: just felt like, okay, I need this time.
Gary Meagher: Again, I feel like I had not come back down to Earth.
Gary Meagher: I almost felt like I was floating.
Gary Meagher: I knew it was going to take me. I didn't know what hit me.
Gary Meagher: I don't, you know, at that time, I did not know what hit me.
Gary Meagher: I still don't. You know, it's the rites provide doorways into mystery.
Gary Meagher: And then there was certainly a lot of that.
Gary Meagher: I returned to work the next day, which might have been a mistake.
Gary Meagher: But I felt like I was skipping upstairs.
Gary Meagher: And everyone I saw was saying, Oh, it's a good day, good day for
Gary Meagher: great things.
Gary Meagher: And they start scratching their heads, like, okay, give me some of that drug
Gary Meagher: urine. But it was a high.
Gary Meagher: There was definitely a high that, like all highs, does not last.
Gary Meagher: You know, there comes a point where, okay, you know, gravity takes over and
Gary Meagher: you come back and you need to sort of say, What hit me?
Gary Meagher: What happened here? So my initial period afterwards summed up like that.
Brian Mueller: 12:37
Brian Mueller: So this is broadening that a little bit, but what has changed in your
Brian Mueller: life since making the rites, practically, relationally, spiritually?
Gary Meagher: 12:45
Gary Meagher: Well I'll tell you a couple things here. I found the right Open doors.
Gary Meagher: They presented doors and they opened doors to me.
Gary Meagher: Doors that I continue to walk through.
Gary Meagher: Doors that I'm perhaps not reluctant to walk through.
Gary Meagher: Doors into liminal space that are limital space that that lead maybe in different
Gary Meagher: directions, all pointing you into my who am I?
Gary Meagher: To the question of understanding myself, understanding my relationship.
Gary Meagher: With our Creator, with our Creator's Earth, with our relationships.
Gary Meagher: So I would say that.
Gary Meagher: In the long run, the pathways that have been opened up probably would not
Gary Meagher: have been as clear to me As they became. A case in point.
Gary Meagher: In college, I was an English major.
Gary Meagher: I just hopped around from history to psychology.
Gary Meagher: I thought, okay, English is what really speaks to me.
Gary Meagher: A classic English major degree is Chaucer, Shakespeare and Milton, and maybe American literature
Gary Meagher: and stuff like that. Well, I experienced Ecstatic poets.
Gary Meagher: I experienced a metaphor that were not introduced to me through the sort of
Gary Meagher: the classic education system.
Gary Meagher: And those are those are points and those are paths that I continue to
Gary Meagher: follow, especially in poetry, especially and the arts and seeing the world.
Gary Meagher: The man who was the who I mentioned was the ritual elder, Steven Piccha.
Gary Meagher: I distinctly remember him standing up at the end of the rites.
Gary Meagher: And I don't think I'm giving anything away here to men who have yet
Gary Meagher: to experience it.
Gary Meagher: But he said: as you go back into your life, there are three things
Gary Meagher: you must embrace.
Gary Meagher: You must embrace the natural world, become comfortable with it, do not be a
Gary Meagher: stranger to it. You must embrace contemplative practice or practices.
Gary Meagher: Be they centering prayer, be they chanting, be they dancing, be they any of
Gary Meagher: the branches on the tree of contemplative practices.
Gary Meagher: And thirdly, you really should find a community of men, like-minded men.
Gary Meagher: So those are three things that I boy, I still clear as a bell
Gary Meagher: can hear that being said, and there still are sort of North Stars that
Gary Meagher: I continue to follow.
Gary Meagher: I came back, I another guy, another man who had been through the rites
Gary Meagher: at the same time with me, we looked at each other and said, Well,
Gary Meagher: let's start a men's group And we got a list of men in our
Gary Meagher: area, sent out an email, gathered, and 17 years later we're still gathering.
Gary Meagher: We're still meeting. We're still talking.
Gary Meagher: I also joined a centering prayer group, a centering lectio group.
Gary Meagher: Seventeen years later, they're still nourishing.
Gary Meagher: My journey and the nature part I just can't sue. Can't get enough of.
Gary Meagher: So those are some of the things that Of the signs that I keep
Gary Meagher: following in my life.
Brian Mueller: 15:53
Brian Mueller: So before you went to the rites, did you have conversations with people about
Brian Mueller: attending the rites? And what were those like?
Gary Meagher: 16:00
Gary Meagher: None. Of all my long answers, that's easily the shortest.
Gary Meagher: I wasn't really certain what I was getting into.
Gary Meagher: The descriptions were vague, purposely so. They were sort of mysterious.
Gary Meagher: Just said, you know, be open. Be open.
Gary Meagher: So I really didn't speak to any of the men who were planning it,
Gary Meagher: or even I had not connected with any man who had been on it.
Gary Meagher: I just came with a lot of trust.
Brian Mueller: 16:31
Brian Mueller: But afterwards, did you have conversations with people?
Brian Mueller: You said you went back to work the next day.
Brian Mueller: Oh, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, no, that's actually just the extension.
Brian Mueller: I want to see if things have flipped one way or the other.
Gary Meagher: 16:43
Gary Meagher: Well, oh yes. Yes. Yeah, the conversation stone.
Gary Meagher: Interestingly enough, I think I mentioned a couple of men I met.
Gary Meagher: During my entry to the Pilgrim Park area, I would say there are at
Gary Meagher: least a half dozen men who also attended the rites when I did.
Gary Meagher: And there were over 80 men on there from all over the world.
Gary Meagher: But at least At least a good half dozen, maybe double that, who I
Gary Meagher: still consider very good friends, who I still walk shoulder to shoulder with on
Gary Meagher: our journey.
Gary Meagher: Processing the rites afterwards was a challenge, and I think it's becoming easier now.
Gary Meagher: I think we have created pathways and tools to help you help men connect
Gary Meagher: and process it.
Gary Meagher: But at that time, it was like the instruction was on the 30th of
Gary Meagher: the month, reach out to the other brothers who were in your small group.
Gary Meagher: And we did that for about two months. It was all email.
Gary Meagher: It wasn't very satisfying. We all kind of dropped it or drifted away.
Gary Meagher: But other conversations continue to evolve. I love that.
Gary Meagher: Poem by Rilke, where he says, I live my life in ever-widening circles, and
Gary Meagher: I can continue to travel in those ever-widening circles that Really started with the
Gary Meagher: rites. Or I don't know if they no, I shouldn't say that.
Gary Meagher: They were enhanced by the rites.
Gary Meagher: I think my life has always been hopefully moving.
Gary Meagher: outward in circles, but I mean I was turbocharged by the rites.
Brian Mueller: 18:12
Brian Mueller: Now have you fully realized the impact of the rites on your life?
Brian Mueller: Or is that an ongoing journey? Are you still having new revelations?
Gary Meagher: 18:21
Gary Meagher: Oh, yeah. No, it's the journey is outward and it's inward.
Gary Meagher: The inward journey is one of reflection and discernment, and the outward journey is
Gary Meagher: connection, I think, and both those directions. They still resonate.
Gary Meagher: There's a case in point.
Gary Meagher: There's a Japanese adage that I love that says there are three things are
Gary Meagher: to be feared And hate it.
Gary Meagher: You might have heard this: earthquakes, fires, and fathers.
Gary Meagher: Well, I don't have a problem with my father.
Gary Meagher: You know, my father and I get along really well.
Gary Meagher: You know, this is, you know, what's up with that?
Gary Meagher: But I saw a lot of men who did, who really struggled with wounds.
Gary Meagher: The wounds of neglect, the wounds, wounds of expectation, and so on.
Gary Meagher: And I came to understand and appreciate more my relationship with what I have
Gary Meagher: had. With my father.
Gary Meagher: It continued to open up and it became a path of appreciation, of understanding
Gary Meagher: him.
Gary Meagher: And where he was, the journey that he had been on, and my journey,
Gary Meagher: and how we had come to that point.
Gary Meagher: My parents were very young when I was born. They were 22.
Gary Meagher: Which now seems almost should be illegal.
Gary Meagher: But I was born nine months later, and I realized, I've come to realize,
Gary Meagher: you know, I was probably. Raised as an experiment.
Gary Meagher: Neither of my parents really knew how to raise kids.
Gary Meagher: As I said, I'm the oldest of four.
Gary Meagher: But I've come to really appreciate their challenges and where they were coming from.
Gary Meagher: And my father passed away a couple of years ago at the age of
Gary Meagher: 93.
Gary Meagher: But the last, after my mother died six years earlier, I was his primary
Gary Meagher: companion.
Gary Meagher: He lived 90 miles away, but I would be helping to take care of
Gary Meagher: him.
Gary Meagher: get his finances in order, getting his apartment shut down and stuff like that.
Gary Meagher: But we really walked a path of equals, which was I hope that I
Gary Meagher: would have had that experience without the riots, but I'm not certain that I
Gary Meagher: would have.
Brian Mueller: 20:27
Brian Mueller: You know, I know you not only as a man, that is.
Brian Mueller: Participated in the rites of passage, but now also is actively involved in offering
Brian Mueller: men's rites of passage and supporting that journey for other men.
Brian Mueller: So, how has that experience changed your understanding of masculinity, initiation, and even the
Brian Mueller: male purpose in life?
Gary Meagher: 20:44
Gary Meagher: Oh, brother. That's a loaded question.
Gary Meagher: As I said, I participated in the first men's rites of passage that Illinois
Gary Meagher: put on in 2008.
Gary Meagher: I was blessed to be asked back two years later to help out with
Gary Meagher: that team.
Gary Meagher: And I've been a member of the men's rites Team ever since, every year,
Gary Meagher: except for the year that you did it, Brian. I was an observer there.
Gary Meagher: I wasn't part of the team.
Gary Meagher: But each year I'm very grateful for the opportunity to help and participate in
Gary Meagher: and create the container for men who are there.
Gary Meagher: But also, It helps deepen my appreciation of what the rites have meant to
Gary Meagher: me. And it's brought more clarity.
Gary Meagher: I think most men Who go through the rites.
Gary Meagher: And the rites are not for everyone.
Gary Meagher: I've met men who came away saying, yeah, okay, I can check that off
Gary Meagher: my bucket list. It was interesting, but not earth-moving.
Gary Meagher: But other managers say it's transformative.
Gary Meagher: They can look at the time before and after.
Gary Meagher: And as I continue to help out and participate in my chapters offering the
Gary Meagher: rites, it grows. It grows and it grows and grows.
Gary Meagher: And at this point, if I may put in a plug for those who
Gary Meagher: are in who feel that way, if you've been to the rites, most likely
Gary Meagher: you come away going, What hit me? You know, what happened?
Gary Meagher: And thus Illuman has created an initiator program to allow men to come back
Gary Meagher: and experience that five-day journey from a different perspective.
Gary Meagher: And if I had not had that opportunity by working on that, I think
Gary Meagher: I would be much different right now.
Brian Mueller: 22:36
Brian Mueller: I'm glad you mentioned the initiator program.
Brian Mueller: In other conversations, the elder rites has come up, but to date nothing, none
Brian Mueller: of us have talked about the initiator program.
Brian Mueller: Let me invite you to say a little bit more about that, specifically because
Brian Mueller: you and I are going to be working with initiators this summer at Pilgrim
Brian Mueller: Park when the Illinois Rites happens in August.
Gary Meagher: 22:54
Gary Meagher: Right, right, right, right.
Gary Meagher: Well, it is a program that has been evolving and developed, and it is
Gary Meagher: an invitation for men who have Participated in the men's rites of passage to
Gary Meagher: return, and it is a parallel program. I need to stress that.
Gary Meagher: It's a parallel program.
Gary Meagher: You're not Doing the same thing that the men who are going through the
Gary Meagher: rites for their first time. But you have your own circle.
Gary Meagher: You have your own leaders. In this case, Brian, it'll be you and me.
Gary Meagher: You have Your own prompts, rituals, and opportunity for deep sharing.
Gary Meagher: At the same time, you are asked to be a witness.
Gary Meagher: To open your arms and hold the container for those men who are there.
Gary Meagher: You know, you may be asked to haul some lumber, some wood, some firewood.
Gary Meagher: You may be asked to set something up to help clean up afterwards.
Gary Meagher: But overall, it's an opportunity to be in that sacred space for That those
Gary Meagher: five limital days.
Brian Mueller: 24:04
Brian Mueller: You know, that's terrific.
Brian Mueller: I told you at the outset that I don't like to insert too much
Brian Mueller: of my experience into these conversations. I really want to.
Brian Mueller: At my guests' experiences to shine forth, but I also want to prove that
Brian Mueller: you're not chatting with an AI, Gary, and tell you that I don't know
Brian Mueller: if this is a common experience, but the Wrights were such a transformative and
Brian Mueller: powerful experience for me.
Brian Mueller: As I left the Wrights, my first instinct was, wow, I survived that.
Brian Mueller: I'm never coming back.
Brian Mueller: And the two years later, I was back as an initiator.
Brian Mueller: And it speaks to me to the power of that experience to even draw
Brian Mueller: you back, even when it was, for me, on some level, overwhelming.
Brian Mueller: But that experience as initiator was so powerful, informative in my ongoing relationship and
Brian Mueller: entering into the community and has informed my own ongoing commitment to support the
Brian Mueller: rites. So I'm excited about joining you there for this initiator program.
Brian Mueller: But also, even as men who've been there before, you're always a little tentative.
Gary Meagher: 25:07
Gary Meagher: I found The word haunting keeps coming up when I think about my rites.
Gary Meagher: They kind of haunt you, not in a bad way, but in a good
Gary Meagher: way. You yearn to return to that place.
Gary Meagher: This is a real sidetrack, but a couple of years ago I had the
Gary Meagher: opportunity, the privilege to walk the Comino de Santiago in Spain.
Gary Meagher: It was an experience that when I finished my walk, it was 38 days,
Gary Meagher: I met people from all over the world.
Gary Meagher: But I got home and it was, I felt empty because I wasn't there
Gary Meagher: again. It was haunting.
Gary Meagher: It just sort of was like one of those top-level experiences that you yearn.
Gary Meagher: To go back and experience over again.
Gary Meagher: Some of the people I've met along the way in Spain have returned.
Gary Meagher: It's the same refrain. You know, what was that?
Gary Meagher: You know, how it was, how can I process that?
Gary Meagher: And I would put the men's rites of passage right there.
Gary Meagher: Right there with that type of experience. There are very few in our lives.
Gary Meagher: There are very few in our lives like that.
Brian Mueller: 26:23
Brian Mueller: I just have one more question for you, Gary.
Brian Mueller: And that's what counsel or advice would you offer to a man who's now
Brian Mueller: discerning whether or not to participate in the rites?
Gary Meagher: 26:31
Gary Meagher: Well, I become a men's rites of passage junkie, I think, because I've been
Gary Meagher: so helped out with so many of them.
Gary Meagher: So I would say open Your heart, open your gut, get out of your
Gary Meagher: mind if the call is there. Answer it. Answer it.
Gary Meagher: And talk to other men.
Gary Meagher: Talk to other men who might have done it, who might be able to
Gary Meagher: respect and might be able to give advice.
Gary Meagher: But I would say listen to your heart. Blessed your heart.
Brian Mueller: 27:07
Brian Mueller: Brother, thank you, really.
Brian Mueller: I love you, and I appreciate your honesty, your courage, and thank you for
Brian Mueller: giving us a window into your MROP experience.
Gary Meagher: 27:15
Gary Meagher: No, thank you, Brian. It's been a privilege.
Brian Mueller: 27:17
Brian Mueller: For those listening who are now feeling a tug in their own soul and
Brian Mueller: are curious to learn more, allow me to share a bit about the history
Brian Mueller: of these rites.
Brian Mueller: The Men's Rites of Passage was originally developed by Father Richard Rohr, and was
Brian Mueller: first offered at Ghost Ranch, New Mexico, in nineteen ninety six.
Brian Mueller: While it was supported for many years by the Center for Action and Contemplation,
Brian Mueller: since twenty twelve a Lumen has been the steward of this work.
Brian Mueller: Preserving and adapting the rites for men all over the world.
Brian Mueller: To learn more about the history and the theology behind this work I highly
Brian Mueller: recommend reading Adam's RETURN. by Richard Rohr.
Brian Mueller: If you are ready to make your rites, there are four opportunities in the
Brian Mueller: United States and another in the United Kingdom in twenty-twenty six.
Brian Mueller: The first is in Northern California, may thirteenth through the seventeenth the second in
Brian Mueller: the United Kingdom, July twenty second through the twenty sixth.
Brian Mueller: and in Illinois, August twelfth through the sixteenth.
Brian Mueller: There's one on the East Coast, in New Jersey, September sixteenth through the twentieth
Brian Mueller: and the final one of the year is in Texas, which is in MROP
Brian Mueller: and Umbrales, our Spanish language rites, September thirtieth through October fourth.
Brian Mueller: You can find details and registration information at Illuman dot org slash MROP or
Brian Mueller: Illuman dot org slash events.
Brian Mueller: Additionally, mark your calendars for Awaken, the annual national gathering of Illuman, taking place
Brian Mueller: November fifth through the eighth in New Mexico.
Brian Mueller: You can find more at illuman dot org slash awaken.
Brian Mueller: Finally, a special thank you to our sponsor, Choosing Presents.
Brian Mueller: If today's conversation moved you, I encourage you to bring more intentionality into your
Brian Mueller: daily life.
Brian Mueller: Download the Practicing Presence app for free at choosingpresence dot org slash app.
Brian Mueller: It's a simple but profound way to stay connected to the journey we've discussed
Brian Mueller: today. Thank you for listening to follow me to the MROP.
Brian Mueller: Until next time, brothers, stay present.