Brian Mueller  00:00
Brian, welcome to follow me to the MROP, a podcast dedicated to the journey of the masculine soul and the transformative power of initiation. My name is Brian Mueller. I live in suburban Dayton, Ohio, and I made my rites at Pilgrim Park in Illinois in 2014 I'm your host, and in each episode of our show, I'll sit down with one man who has made his rites, and I'll invite him to tell his story. This won't be an abstract explanation or a theological lecture, just a real conversation about what it was like to cross that threshold at the rites and what changed afterward, before we begin, a quick word of gratitude. This podcast is brought to you by choosing presents. We believe that the greatest gift a man can give his community is his own presence in a world of constant distraction, choosing presence provides the tools to help you stay grounded in the Now, if you'd like an easy way to begin learning about the practice of presence, you can download the free practicing presence app at choosingpresence.org/app. Now the men's rites of passage, or MROP, is an experience designed to help men move from the first half of life into the second, shifting from a focus on ego and achievement to a life of meaning and soul. On this show, we just don't talk about the rites in theory. We talk to the men who have walked the path. Today we are joined by a man who has made his rites and we're going to hear exactly what that journey looked like for him. My guest today is Dan Vanoli, brother, I'm really glad you're here. Thanks for making the time and for being willing to share your story.

Dan Vanoli  01:32
It's good to be here. Brian.

Brian Mueller  01:34
Dan, tell us where you're from and how you spend your time these days.

Dan Vanoli  01:39
I am from Dayton, Ohio, and I'm retired. I'm 80 years old, and I spend most of my time volunteering down at my church. Okay, yeah, so that's, that's, that's basically what I do. You know, I work in the food pantry. I gives a Saturday morning devotion to the folks that come in off the street for breakfast and, and I help with the managing the church affairs.

Brian Mueller  02:16
Wow, that's, that's, that's wonderful. It's a terrific way to spend some time. So let's dive in and talk a little bit about the men's rites of passage. The MROP is a unique experience. It's not a retreat or a workshop, it's an initiation. And many men arrive at the rites at a crossroads in their lives, looking for something they can't quite name. So before we dive into the why and the how, let's start at the very beginning. So where did you make your rites and what year?

Dan Vanoli  02:40
In 2013 I made my rites at Camp Bristland. And it's close to Madisonburg, Pennsylvania, also close to State College, okay, yeah, that's where I did it. It's, it's, it's, as you go through the Pennsylvania Turnpike and you see all the names of those mountains. It's on the side of one of those mountains. Okay, 

Brian Mueller  03:06
Sounds like a beautiful location. 

Dan Vanoli  03:08
Yes, it was. It was. So when you think back to that weekend, what's the first image or feeling that comes to your mind? Well, the first image, yeah, or feeling, or feeling that comes to you? Well, I think I sort of had an apprehension. I was determined to do it okay, and there was a little bit of fear it, you know, because of the unknown, and I think I had a little bit of humility, because I knew I wasn't going to know anybody there, except I did know the head Weaver.

Brian Mueller  03:54
Okay, yeah. And now, in general terms, how would you what was that weekend like for you? What was that experience Taken as a whole, like for you?

Dan Vanoli  04:03
Well, it was an awakening. It really was I where I was in my life. I just needed something, and it was sort of a demarcation for me to go in a different direction, so to speak. Yeah.

Brian Mueller  04:23
Now, who was your Weaver? And about how many men were there.

Dan Vanoli  04:28
My Weaver was Joel Blunk. And boy, this is all the way back to the time when he was actually a youth minister at a church in State College, right? And there were about 40 people. There about 40 men, great.

Brian Mueller  04:49
So without sharing anything that you'd consider confidential, are there a few moments during the rites, or few rituals or elements from the rites that really stood out to you and impacted you?

Dan Vanoli  05:02
Yeah, there were, there was one rite that kind of wowed me, and kind of it just, it kind of shocked me. And it was without going into detail on it, it, you know, I had read Adam's return, obviously, before I went on my rites. But this was a right that involved the interplay between Adam and God. And it was just, it just wowed me. It was so well orchestrated and so surprising and so touching that it really had an impact on me.

Brian Mueller  05:54
Now, this is not a short event. It takes place over the parts of five days, four nights. You know, is there a particular moment or memory or something like that that really comes to mind from those various days and nights that you spent the rites?

Dan Vanoli  06:10
Oh, there's several. There's several. We began each morning with a sit, and as we processed it was Dawn, you know, the sun was coming up, and I this one day, we passed by this tree, and there was a black bird in a tree and it was squawking, and all I could I actually sang this. And some people joined in with me. Morning has broken, which is, even though it's a Cat Stevens song, it's also a hymn in the United method United Methodist hymnal, you know, but it just, it just really felt appropriate. That is one that sticks with me. Actually. That's the first time I really did any drumming. And I could tell you that I was nervous for a lot of the sessions, and it was just amazing after 15-20 minutes of drumming, how it just seemed like there was a rhythm with the other men that were there, and it just calmed me down. And it was sort of almost like what's supposed to happen during a contemplative fit, and it was happening while I was drumming, you know. So that was that was memorable.

Brian Mueller  07:42
But go ahead, no, you mentioned two things that are probably new to a lot of guys that show up at the rites, and that's the contemplative sit and the drumming. Yeah, maybe we should do some drumming at the beginning of these interviews. Huh? Get us all in a rhythm and a flow. So let's talk a little bit about why you signed up for the rites. You know what circumstances led you to participate in what was going on in your life at that time?

Dan Vanoli  08:06
I - I, like I said, I was a volunteer at church even back then, in 2013 and we had a new pastor that came in, and basically he fired me and, and, you know, I thought it was unjust. I, you know, I don't make a wage or anything. And basically he, he ran me off, and I was just going to overreact and chuck everything and just say that I'm, I'm done with church all together. And, and I, luckily, luckily, I, I ran into Joel Blunk. I had gone to a conspire out at Albuquerque, New Mexico, and he was one of the presenters. Now, I had met him a year before in Ligonier, Pennsylvania, at a retreat which Richard Rohr was the retreat leader, and he and I talked there. And so I I approached him at the conspire, and he talked me into going. And I was ready. I knew, I knew that, that I had some problems and I had some anger, and I had to work it out. And I just made up my mind I was going to go,

Brian Mueller  09:42
yeah, an invitation from Joel. That's wonderful. So what were you hoping for, or even afraid of heading into their rites?

Dan Vanoli  09:51
Well, I was, I was hoping for a new direction. I and I was afraid of the. Unknowns. I mean, you know, it's I knew that we were initiates, initiates, and, you know, we were going through these rites and I wasn't sure what to expect. I think at that stage in my life, I thought it was time to put away childish things, as the scripture says, and I just, I just started to clean myself of things that that were important to me, but they were things that just enhanced my ego. And really, I can see that was part of the difference. You know, sometimes when you decide you're going to pursue spirituality, your ego is still in control. You're not only going to be the saint. You're gonna be better than all the other saints you know, and, and. And that was the wrong attitude, and that's, that's what I knew I had to work on, and, and. And in all honesty, Joel was the only person I knew at my rites of passage, and luckily, he was the head Weaver, and I had a tremendous trust in Him. So whenever he spoke, I I took it as gospel and that enhanced my rites by just paying attention to everything that Joel said, and I, I had to learn humility. And you know, because, again, if, if you're, if you're in with a group of men, you're still fighting that desire to belong to and not only to belong, but to stand out sometimes, which is really crazy, you know. So that's what I was working on.

Brian Mueller  12:17
It sounds to me like you're saying that you know, going into the rites it's really helpful to have someone you trust, whether that's Richard Rohr from his teachings, or a trusted man like Joel who invites you to participate and who's there with you.

Dan Vanoli  12:29
Absolutely, absolutely yes.

Brian Mueller  12:32
Now think back to, you know, the time so the rites have ended, you know, and there's the closing rituals, and everybody's saying their goodbyes, and it's time to go home. You know, what was that moment like for you when you left the rites and began your return to your daily life?

Dan Vanoli  12:48
Well, one thing that, one thing that I had planned, and it worked to my advantage, was I went straight from the rites to visit a very close friend who lived in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, who was the best man at my wife's and I's wedding, at our wedding, and I heeded Joel's instructions, and I had made mistakes like this before, to let everything process. You just can't. In all honesty, I'm using words here to describe what happened, but, but you can't, you can't describe it. You have to experience it. And I, I let myself process it. And you know, if people asked about it, I just gave them a very short answer. But there's no sense in spilling the beans, so to speak, because they're not going to they weren't there. They're not going to understand. So I I think it's something that I reverently held close, and I knew I was going to use it, I knew I was going to use it, and if, if they didn't see a difference in me, then it didn't work. Right?

Brian Mueller  14:29
Yeah, yeah. Well, it does take time to kind of let the rites settle in your experience, to kind of come to some sort of realization. So when was that moment? How long did it take for you to kind of feel the full impact of the rites on your psyche and your spiritual journey?

Dan Vanoli  14:46
I think, I think it took to where I was bound and determined to find more initiated brothers and. It really fueled me to get in touch with Chuck Rihm, who was the convener for Ohio, and he started directing me to people that had been through the rites and it helped me to say I went all the way up to Cleveland for his group, and he said, You don't need to come up here. There's some people down in your southwest corner of Ohio. And so I contacted them, and we started a group down there, as you well know, and that's, that's when it really started to have an effect, when, when it you start to have a kinship with the brothers, and you start to have your small groups, and you start to realize how much you have in common. That's - That's it.

Brian Mueller  16:01
Well, the rites are a communal experience, so it makes sure, it makes sense that community would follow that experience. Yeah. Well, let's talk a little bit about, you know, the friends and family aspect of this. Because, you know, a lot of men that had come to this, you know, you know, they have to, you know, check with their partner, friends, in their people, in their lives, that they trust, and you know they have, they impact the decision. So did you have family members, friends, community? How did they respond to your decision to participate in the rites? What was their those conversations?

Dan Vanoli  16:34
Well, I was lucky. They, they supported it. They, they could see that I was troubled, you know that I was, you know that I needed, I needed something, and they, they supported it 100% and they affirmed that it changed me so...

Brian Mueller  17:00
So afterwards, people, people around you, noticed the changes immediately?

Dan Vanoli  17:04
yeah, yeah, they did. They did.

Brian Mueller  17:10
And would you say that? They would, you know those people in your life, like your wife, still support the rites today, or would encourage others to...

Dan Vanoli  17:17
Absolutely, absolutely yes, and, for that matter, even my sons, as you know, we've had some father and son events, yeah, you know. And, and they attend with me, you know. And it's, it's, it's good, because it's something that I hope for them someday.

Brian Mueller  17:41
Right now, it's been more than a decade and since your rites, but you know, since that time, you've gotten much more deeply involved in your own spiritual journey and Illuman as a community. You know, what would you say has changed in your life, practically relationally, spiritually in that time, in the 10 plus years?

Dan Vanoli  18:01
Well, I think, I think the main thing is that I was so wrong and misguided by my masculinity, and it was objectification, it was it was toxic masculinity, and it helped me to realize just how wrong I was about a lot of things, especially well, especially women, you know, and even my own feminine side, I think that's the biggest thing, and it's it Just it expands your consciousness, your awareness of just, just how wrong some of the things that you know you grow up and you laugh at, and you even use terms that are degrading and domineering, and you know patriarchy is, you know, one of the, one of the lines I always use is, you know, that history was shaped by male egos and a lot of it is toxic. A lot of it is toxic. And it's wrong, because the world would be a more peaceful, a more open place. If, if we realize that, and we actually work. Worked in community, both the male and the female elements.

Brian Mueller  20:05
I'd like to affirm, Dan, you know the impact that the rites seem to have on your life. You and I met at solarize, even though we live in the same southwest part of Ohio, but we didn't meet until 2014 in at the annual gathering of a Illuman, which was in New Mexico. And during our first conversation, you mentioned how your original plan for retirement was to, you know, travel, do many of the things that you really enjoyed doing, like visiting horse tracks and that sort of thing. And it was, it was what we would consider a very conventional retirement that was focused on all the things you didn't get to do while you were busy raising a family and working and those sorts of things so kind of focused on just your wants and your desires, that sort of thing, you and your wife. But you had changed things dramatically. You and your wife both had gotten deeply involved in a church in Dayton, dedicated yourself to that, and that became a community center in downtown Dayton. And you've given so much of your life, I think, post your working years to service for others, and that includes the men's work. And so, you know, from what I can tell, these rites had a huge, huge impact on how you spent your life the later years of your life.

Dan Vanoli  21:19
Yes, I, I don't know what I would have been like if I had not gone on the rites and I had friends that had gone on it, and I, I really thought I didn't need it. And again, that was my ego talking and but I can tell you that it was it. It was like going through a doorway to a different life where I had different wants and different desires than when I was on the other side and I'm grateful for that. I'm grateful for that.

Brian Mueller  22:08
Yeah, a threshold experience. So I just have one more question, and in that you can also add anything else that we failed to address, that you want to talk about with the rites. But what kind of counsel would you offer a man who's discerning whether or not to participate in the rites?

Dan Vanoli  22:22
I'd say, I tell the person that I understand your reluctance. I fought it for years. But if you want to grow up spiritually, if you want to free yourself from that trap of toxic masculinity and narcissism, you must surrender to these rites. Give it a chance, and you will come to know yourself for the first time, and you will love the person you find. That's what I say.

Brian Mueller  23:00
Amen, well, brother. Thank you so much. Truly, you're very dear to me, and I really appreciate your honesty, your courage, and thank you for giving us a window into your MROP experience. And I know, had it not been for the MROP You and I probably wouldn't have ever met, and we've been in community together for more than 10 years. So thank you so much.

Dan Vanoli  23:21
You're welcome, Brian. You are a brother and a friend.

Brian Mueller  23:25
For those listening who are now feeling a tug in their own soul and are curious to learn more, allow me to share a bit about the history of these rites. The men's rites of passage was originally developed by Father Richard Rohr, and was first offered at ghost ranch New Mexico in 1996 while it was supported for many years by the Center for action and contemplation. Since 2012 Illuman has been the steward of this work, preserving and adapting the rites for men all over the world to learn more about the history and the theology behind this work, I highly recommend reading Adam's return by Richard Rohr if you are ready to make your rites there are four opportunities in the United States and another in the United Kingdom in 2026 The first is in Northern California. May 13 through the 17th. The second in the United Kingdom, July 22 through the 26th and in Illinois, August 12 through the 16th. There's one on the East Coast in New Jersey, September 16 through the 20th. And the final one of the year is in Texas, which is an MROP and Umbrales - our Spanish language rites. September 30 through October 4, you can find details and registration information at Illuman.org/mrop or illuman.org/events additionally mark your calendars for awaken the annual national gathering of Illuman taking place November, 5 through the eighth in New Mexico. You can find more at illuman.org/awaken, finally, a special thank you to our sponsor, Choosing presence. If today's conversation moved you, I encourage you to bring more intentionality into your daily life. Download the Practicing Presence app for free a choosingpresence.org/app, it's a simple but profound way to stay. Connected to the journey we've discussed today. Thank you for listening to follow me to the MROP Until next time, brothers stay present.