WEBVTT 00:00:02.029 --> 00:00:04.910 This edition of the Chatterbox Redux podcast 00:00:04.910 --> 00:00:06.990 is brought to you in association with the Strong 00:00:06.990 --> 00:00:14.910 Coffee Company. More from them in a bit. Chatterbox. 00:00:14.990 --> 00:00:18.230 When the stars talk, they talk to Nick and Sue. 00:00:30.190 --> 00:00:32.469 Welcome back to the Chatterbox Redux podcast 00:00:32.469 --> 00:00:35.210 with Sue and Nick and today our special guest 00:00:35.210 --> 00:01:11.030 is Jackie McShee of Pentangle. This is Nick and 00:01:11.030 --> 00:01:14.069 Sue with Chatterbox giving you all you need to 00:01:14.069 --> 00:01:39.670 know about music. And now on Chatterbox UK, we're 00:01:39.670 --> 00:01:42.450 lucky enough to welcome Jackie McShee. Jackie, 00:01:42.530 --> 00:01:44.510 hello and welcome. How are you? Hello, Jackie. 00:01:44.590 --> 00:01:47.150 I'm very well, thank you, Nick. Jackie, I know 00:01:47.150 --> 00:01:51.590 we've had a chat before. But just to get some 00:01:51.590 --> 00:01:53.250 of these listeners to be a whole batch of new 00:01:53.250 --> 00:01:55.349 listeners, especially on the number of stations 00:01:55.349 --> 00:01:59.310 that we're now on. I can see that you got involved 00:01:59.310 --> 00:02:04.000 with Pentangle in 1967, but... How did you actually 00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:08.159 get to that in 1967? Just take us swiftly through 00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:10.939 your childhood and music -wise how you actually 00:02:10.939 --> 00:02:15.740 got to joining Pentangle. Well, I mean I've always 00:02:15.740 --> 00:02:17.539 been interested in music but I never thought 00:02:17.539 --> 00:02:21.240 I would actually be able to have a career. I 00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:25.180 became, well in my mid -teens I became very political 00:02:25.180 --> 00:02:27.819 and I joined CND and we used to go on the marches. 00:02:27.879 --> 00:02:30.340 My sister and I, my sister Pam and I used to 00:02:30.340 --> 00:02:33.860 go on the marches and we joined what to us was 00:02:33.860 --> 00:02:36.639 the nearest CND, the YCND, which is the youth 00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:39.520 campaign for nuclear disarmament in Croydon and 00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:42.919 we met lots of people there and on the marches 00:02:42.919 --> 00:02:45.180 people used to sing and we used to sing and they 00:02:45.180 --> 00:02:47.120 said you two have got really good voices you 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:48.840 can lead the singing and we were sort of a bit 00:02:48.840 --> 00:02:52.080 dumbfounded but then I met guitar players and 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:58.280 we actually performed at a concert for War on 00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:02.479 March and it was actually going to a club with 00:03:02.479 --> 00:03:06.520 my sister in London and walking through Trafalgar 00:03:06.520 --> 00:03:09.740 Square there were millions and millions of people 00:03:09.740 --> 00:03:12.180 and these two guys came up to us and said where 00:03:12.180 --> 00:03:13.719 are you off to and we said oh we're going up 00:03:13.719 --> 00:03:15.319 to this club and they said come down to the crypt 00:03:15.319 --> 00:03:17.879 in St Martin's in the field there's an exhibition 00:03:17.879 --> 00:03:19.939 down there and they were from C &A and they walked 00:03:19.939 --> 00:03:23.340 from it had been the walk from Jarrow which is 00:03:23.340 --> 00:03:26.319 a reenactor from the 1930s indeed the Jarrow 00:03:26.319 --> 00:03:30.060 march indeed yes yeah and it was um it was C 00:03:30.060 --> 00:03:32.560 &D and all the unions and everything and there 00:03:32.560 --> 00:03:36.280 were these horrific photographs of Hiroshima 00:03:36.280 --> 00:03:38.900 and Nagasaki and I was just appalled. I mean 00:03:38.900 --> 00:03:40.819 I knew about it but you know at school you're 00:03:40.819 --> 00:03:42.520 not taught any of that sort of thing. I went 00:03:42.520 --> 00:03:45.639 to quite a strict girls school and it was a very 00:03:45.639 --> 00:03:48.560 classical sort of education that I had. You didn't 00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:51.780 really touch on politics unfortunately and it 00:03:51.780 --> 00:03:54.240 was a rude awakening and that's why we joined 00:03:54.240 --> 00:03:56.960 C &D because we just thought this should never 00:03:56.960 --> 00:03:59.729 ever happen again. And a lot of people played 00:03:59.729 --> 00:04:04.550 guitar. And I gradually started singing with 00:04:04.550 --> 00:04:06.889 people. And from this concert we did more and 00:04:06.889 --> 00:04:10.849 more in Groydon, somebody came up and said, you 00:04:10.849 --> 00:04:12.229 know, do you fancy getting together and having 00:04:12.229 --> 00:04:14.830 a bit of a sing? And he played guitar, which 00:04:14.830 --> 00:04:18.389 was fine. And it went from there. And after that, 00:04:18.389 --> 00:04:21.430 I met another guy, a 12 -string player, who used 00:04:21.430 --> 00:04:25.189 to work in Watkins Electrical Music in Ballum. 00:04:25.439 --> 00:04:27.779 And he knew John Rembaugh and Bert Jones when 00:04:27.779 --> 00:04:32.680 they were still solo players. And we started 00:04:32.680 --> 00:04:34.480 out with other people as well. It wasn't just 00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:36.600 me. There were quite a few people involved in 00:04:36.600 --> 00:04:39.439 running a folk club in a pub called the Red Lion 00:04:39.439 --> 00:04:43.300 in Sutton. And John used to come down occasionally 00:04:43.300 --> 00:04:47.459 in Burt's. And Chris Aliff, the guy who I played, 00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:50.199 he's a 12 string player. He used to go off every 00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:52.920 summer down to the south of France on North Africa 00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:59.009 busking. and he used to busk in Paris as well. 00:04:59.310 --> 00:05:01.649 And John Rembrandt came down to play one night 00:05:01.649 --> 00:05:04.509 and he said to me, you know, where's Chris? And 00:05:04.509 --> 00:05:06.750 I said, oh, he's busking down, you know, in Paris. 00:05:07.129 --> 00:05:09.410 And he said, I'm doing an album. Would you do 00:05:09.410 --> 00:05:12.410 some vocals on it? And I said, yes. I mean, I 00:05:12.410 --> 00:05:15.670 didn't really know what I was getting into because 00:05:15.670 --> 00:05:20.949 I really, I was so nervous. But anyway, he did 00:05:20.949 --> 00:05:23.829 it and he liked it. And he said, we started working 00:05:23.829 --> 00:05:27.069 together. And Chris said, it turns out that this 00:05:27.069 --> 00:05:29.709 is what Chris wanted all along. He said, many 00:05:29.709 --> 00:05:31.449 years later, he said, I knew you weren't going 00:05:31.449 --> 00:05:33.689 to get anywhere with me. And I knew if I push 00:05:33.689 --> 00:05:36.149 you towards John and Bert, they'd snap you up. 00:05:36.730 --> 00:05:40.410 I must have been so naive. I mean, how lucky 00:05:40.410 --> 00:05:43.490 am I? I mean, he was a dear, dear friend. We 00:05:43.490 --> 00:05:46.490 lost him a couple of years ago. And he lives 00:05:46.490 --> 00:05:50.649 down in North Devon. And we all miss him. Of 00:05:50.649 --> 00:05:54.329 course, John and Bert have gone now. I feel very 00:05:54.329 --> 00:05:58.149 lucky to be here, to be honest, Nick. There's 00:05:58.149 --> 00:06:02.089 a few people that have gone by the wayside. Yes. 00:06:02.490 --> 00:06:05.050 But, you know, there's still a lot of good people 00:06:05.050 --> 00:06:11.750 about. I mean, I can remember we did, Burt was 00:06:11.750 --> 00:06:15.970 doing a tour of Scotland and this must have been 00:06:15.970 --> 00:06:22.050 the winter of 66. I'm not sure if it was the 00:06:22.050 --> 00:06:25.040 beginning of 66. or the end of 66 but I know 00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:27.019 when we got up to Scotland it was snowing because 00:06:27.019 --> 00:06:31.439 John said to me get some time off work and we'll 00:06:31.439 --> 00:06:34.959 muscle in on Bert's gigs so we just you know 00:06:34.959 --> 00:06:37.240 we did some floor sports and did some gigs with 00:06:37.240 --> 00:06:40.360 and sometimes playing all together and it wasn't 00:06:40.360 --> 00:06:44.180 till a few months later John and I were on a 00:06:44.180 --> 00:06:47.139 train coming out of Charing Cross and we were 00:06:47.139 --> 00:06:49.120 the train stopped and we looked at the festival 00:06:49.120 --> 00:06:51.120 hall and we said We're going to be playing there 00:06:51.120 --> 00:06:55.959 soon. Oh, yeah. OK, fine. Anyway, so I'm starting 00:06:55.959 --> 00:06:57.579 a band with Bert. He said, you're going to be 00:06:57.579 --> 00:07:01.759 the singer. OK. I mean, it's so bizarre, really. 00:07:02.120 --> 00:07:05.540 I just drifted into it. Nice. I was very lucky. 00:07:05.860 --> 00:07:12.600 So that was 1966 into 67. 67, we actually see 00:07:12.600 --> 00:07:15.720 the formation of Pentangle by name, I believe. 00:07:16.530 --> 00:07:19.009 Yes, I mean John always had this thing about 00:07:19.009 --> 00:07:21.930 Pentango, he said King Arthur had one on the 00:07:21.930 --> 00:07:24.689 inside of his shield, which was supposed to ward 00:07:24.689 --> 00:07:27.810 off evil spirits and keep him safe. So that's, 00:07:27.810 --> 00:07:30.790 and he was into medieval mysteries and stuff. 00:07:32.189 --> 00:07:36.610 And it was, we did rehearse, at the end of 66, 00:07:36.829 --> 00:07:39.480 we rehearsed with a drummer and a and I really 00:07:39.480 --> 00:07:41.319 feel awful because I can't remember their names. 00:07:41.819 --> 00:07:44.000 And when we all got back at the reunion, no one 00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:45.540 else could remember their names either, which 00:07:45.540 --> 00:07:49.720 is a real shame. But John was working, did some 00:07:49.720 --> 00:07:53.600 gigs on a TV show. I think it was called Gadzooks. 00:07:53.939 --> 00:07:58.279 And he met Danny. Danny was playing Julie Felix. 00:07:58.720 --> 00:08:02.480 Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. And John said to Danny, 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:04.300 do you fancy coming down? You know, we've got 00:08:04.300 --> 00:08:07.949 this group. We started a folk club. on a Sunday 00:08:07.949 --> 00:08:10.389 night, come Willow, we're rehearsing the afternoon, 00:08:10.490 --> 00:08:12.790 work out some stuff, if you fancy it. And he 00:08:12.790 --> 00:08:14.930 said, oh, okay, I'll bring my mate Terrell, he's 00:08:14.930 --> 00:08:18.290 a drummer, because they'd worked with Alexis 00:08:18.290 --> 00:08:21.649 Corner. So they were a really tight rhythm section 00:08:21.649 --> 00:08:26.430 and very jazzy. And that's how it all happened. 00:08:26.550 --> 00:08:29.110 We used to spend the Sunday afternoons rehearsing 00:08:29.110 --> 00:08:31.670 stuff and play them in the evening, whether they 00:08:31.670 --> 00:08:36.970 were ready or not. Sure. But anyway, it seemed 00:08:36.970 --> 00:08:40.149 to go down pretty well. It was always packed 00:08:40.149 --> 00:08:42.730 out. And lots of people used to come down, which 00:08:42.730 --> 00:08:46.549 was really nice. Visiting musicians from America, 00:08:47.009 --> 00:08:49.110 like Paul Simon, that he used to come down quite 00:08:49.110 --> 00:08:52.149 a bit. And I met some lovely people, like John 00:08:52.149 --> 00:08:58.169 Martin, Martin Carthy. And I'm just thinking 00:08:58.169 --> 00:09:01.529 I've gone blank, as I do sometimes. It's a nice 00:09:01.529 --> 00:09:04.480 thing, I think. Davey Graham, sorry, I could 00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:07.240 see his face and I just couldn't think of his 00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:10.779 name. But, you know, it was a very exciting time, 00:09:10.860 --> 00:09:13.379 to be honest. There was so much going on, there 00:09:13.379 --> 00:09:17.059 were lots of new things going on. Sure. Sorry, 00:09:17.139 --> 00:09:20.159 carry on, Jackie, sorry. No, I'm saying my nephews, 00:09:20.620 --> 00:09:23.159 who are now in their sort of late forties, we 00:09:23.159 --> 00:09:27.639 wish we'd been a bit earlier. You know, because 00:09:27.639 --> 00:09:32.519 you had the best music time. And of course I'm 00:09:32.519 --> 00:09:35.799 going to say that because it's when we had such 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:39.440 a great time. I was able to travel. I've been 00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:42.139 to America, Australia, New Zealand, all over 00:09:42.139 --> 00:09:47.580 Europe, Canada. I'm very, very lucky. Sure, absolutely. 00:09:48.019 --> 00:09:52.419 But there is obviously so much talent there as 00:09:52.419 --> 00:09:56.659 well. To achieve something like that, obviously 00:09:56.659 --> 00:09:58.799 there is a bit of luck and being in the right 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:00.740 place at the right time, but you still have to 00:10:00.740 --> 00:10:03.259 have the talent as well and clearly in your case 00:10:03.259 --> 00:10:06.600 it worked because we were talking about 1967 00:10:06.600 --> 00:10:11.440 then Jackie, but of course 1968 comes... and 00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:14.340 pentangle start hitting the charts. Okay lower 00:10:14.340 --> 00:10:16.720 reaches of the charts but in those days we're 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:20.759 looking at once I had a sweetheart AA side it 00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:25.220 looks like with I saw an angel 1969 got to 46 00:10:25.220 --> 00:10:29.919 then we had light fright with cold mountain number 00:10:29.919 --> 00:10:33.159 43 that we get to the charts later on early 70s 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:35.740 I think number 45 and I think we've got another 00:10:35.740 --> 00:10:39.659 one somewhere but those positions in that era 00:10:41.400 --> 00:10:45.000 um for us all to get in the lower 40s it would 00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:48.559 have to still in those days sold 300 350 000 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:52.320 copies so you sold a lot of signals yeah honestly 00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:58.259 yeah yeah so where are the royalties whatever 00:10:58.259 --> 00:11:00.620 record company probably took about 90 percent 00:11:00.620 --> 00:11:05.299 and the rest was split five ways It was at least 00:11:05.299 --> 00:11:07.460 the performers that never got much out of the 00:11:07.460 --> 00:11:11.139 deal. Incredible, isn't it? Yeah, well, I mean... 00:11:11.139 --> 00:11:14.419 It's... I don't know. There's pros and cons. 00:11:14.460 --> 00:11:19.299 We did acquire a manager who took over, and his... 00:11:19.299 --> 00:11:23.480 His way of doing things was, like, divide and 00:11:23.480 --> 00:11:26.759 rule. He forgot that we all talk to each other. 00:11:27.019 --> 00:11:31.100 Oh! He said this. Did he? He didn't say that 00:11:31.100 --> 00:11:35.299 to me. But he... He did really well with us. 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:39.039 I mean, he took us to America. OK. And, you know, 00:11:39.059 --> 00:11:43.860 he got us some really good gigs. So I can't complain. 00:11:44.360 --> 00:11:46.799 But we did actually miss out quite a few roses. 00:11:47.779 --> 00:11:50.559 Oh, yes. OK. Sue, have you got anything to ask 00:11:50.559 --> 00:11:52.200 Jackie at this stage? Yeah, I've got a question 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:54.740 for Jackie, but it's two questions in one. How 00:11:54.740 --> 00:11:57.080 did you come up with the name Pentangle and does 00:11:57.080 --> 00:12:00.980 Pentangle mean anything? Well, it's John. John 00:12:00.980 --> 00:12:03.840 formed his own publishing company called Pentangle 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:05.519 Limited and he wanted the group to be called 00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:09.320 Pentangle and so that's it and it's because his 00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:14.620 interest in Arthurian legends and because King 00:12:14.620 --> 00:12:16.960 Arthur had a pentangle on the inside of his shield. 00:12:19.019 --> 00:12:22.059 And there was stories about if you drew a pentangle 00:12:22.059 --> 00:12:27.000 on the floor and I don't know whether it would 00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:34.690 be salt peter, sorry not salt peter. If you drew 00:12:34.690 --> 00:12:39.049 a pentagon with whatever it was, and you lit 00:12:39.049 --> 00:12:42.990 it, it would burn pale blue. It's a never -ending 00:12:42.990 --> 00:12:49.309 line. OK. Thank you for that. So the name came 00:12:49.309 --> 00:12:53.009 before the group, basically. Yes, John had it 00:12:53.009 --> 00:12:56.009 in his mind anyway. Okay, right, let's take ourselves 00:12:56.009 --> 00:13:00.769 to 1973 and there's quite a break there from 00:13:00.769 --> 00:13:04.929 73 onwards for about eight years. I mean, were 00:13:04.929 --> 00:13:07.409 the group getting tired or did you all need a 00:13:07.409 --> 00:13:10.509 change? And tell us what also, not only why there 00:13:10.509 --> 00:13:13.129 was that long break, but also what were you doing 00:13:13.129 --> 00:13:18.269 for those eight years, Jackie? Well, with that 00:13:18.269 --> 00:13:24.309 last year, the very end of 72, because Bert called 00:13:24.309 --> 00:13:26.929 me on New Year's Eve that night on the end of 00:13:26.929 --> 00:13:30.509 72 to say I can't take it anymore and I'm going 00:13:30.509 --> 00:13:34.450 to go solo because I just need a break. And it 00:13:34.450 --> 00:13:38.070 was on the cards really. We'd worked so much, 00:13:38.149 --> 00:13:40.429 we were away from home such a lot. We hadn't 00:13:40.429 --> 00:13:42.710 even had time to work on it. We've tried to work 00:13:42.710 --> 00:13:46.529 on new material and I mean, truth be told, we 00:13:46.529 --> 00:13:49.429 were getting a bit sour. You know, a bit staid. 00:13:51.559 --> 00:13:54.480 I think the passion for the music hadn't gone, 00:13:54.559 --> 00:13:58.159 but I think the energy had gone. We were in each 00:13:58.159 --> 00:14:00.379 other's pockets too much and I think we all needed 00:14:00.379 --> 00:14:05.279 a break. But John was really devastated and he 00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:07.799 said to me, I don't really want the band to fold. 00:14:07.940 --> 00:14:10.620 He said, shall we carry on together like we did 00:14:10.620 --> 00:14:13.360 before? And I said, yeah, I'd be happy to. So 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:16.919 we did for a little while. Then John split up 00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:21.830 with his wife and he... started living with Sue 00:14:21.830 --> 00:14:25.070 Drawheim, an American fiddle player. He's been 00:14:25.070 --> 00:14:28.870 playing with the Albion band for a bit. And he 00:14:28.870 --> 00:14:31.669 said, how about forming a new band? And John's 00:14:31.669 --> 00:14:35.309 love of medieval music, early music, was like 00:14:35.309 --> 00:14:39.110 the mainstay of the material. We brought in pentagon 00:14:39.110 --> 00:14:42.330 stuff because people asked for it. Things like 00:14:42.330 --> 00:14:45.870 Crucifster and Cold Mountain, you know, all kinds 00:14:45.870 --> 00:14:50.860 of things. We didn't do... but we were progressing 00:14:50.860 --> 00:14:53.379 through with early music and also the people 00:14:53.379 --> 00:14:57.799 that were in the band. We had a cello player 00:14:57.799 --> 00:15:02.480 called Sandy Spencer that was on the, she was 00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:06.799 with us for a very short time and she was replaced 00:15:06.799 --> 00:15:12.100 by Sue. And then when Sue left to go back to 00:15:12.100 --> 00:15:15.000 America, John Molyneux came in. But it was... 00:15:14.840 --> 00:15:16.759 John was saying, you know, we need a name for 00:15:16.759 --> 00:15:18.220 the group. And I said, can't we just call it 00:15:18.220 --> 00:15:20.259 the John Renborn band or the John Renborn group? 00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:22.500 And he wanted a fancy name. He said, how about 00:15:22.500 --> 00:15:25.820 Stone Circle? I said, that sounds like Stone 00:15:25.820 --> 00:15:28.080 Circle. I said, it gives people the wrong impression. 00:15:28.899 --> 00:15:31.080 So he said, no, you're right. OK. So we called 00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:34.259 it. It was the John Renborn band. But there was 00:15:34.259 --> 00:15:38.820 a John had met Tony Roberts. John moved out to 00:15:38.820 --> 00:15:41.519 Devon and Tony Roberts lived down there. Tony 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:46.909 Roberts is a fantastic saxophone player. He plays 00:15:46.909 --> 00:15:49.250 anything that you could blow in, he played, and 00:15:49.250 --> 00:15:52.450 Northumbrian pipes. He's really a fantastic musician. 00:15:54.129 --> 00:15:56.350 So John persuaded him to join, and then he'd 00:15:56.350 --> 00:16:00.690 also met Keshaf Sate, a tabla player. And he 00:16:00.690 --> 00:16:02.750 came in and joined the band. And it was just, 00:16:02.830 --> 00:16:05.470 it was lovely. It was a lovely atmosphere. It 00:16:05.470 --> 00:16:09.269 was very relaxed. And we just carried on doing 00:16:09.269 --> 00:16:11.870 the same sort of music, a lot more early music, 00:16:12.070 --> 00:16:16.279 traditional music. blues and because of the lineup 00:16:16.279 --> 00:16:19.100 and the different instrumentation it was really 00:16:19.100 --> 00:16:23.700 not just interesting it was exciting so we did 00:16:23.700 --> 00:16:25.740 that for a long time actually there's um there's 00:16:25.740 --> 00:16:32.100 an album out um i'm trying to think what uh i've 00:16:32.100 --> 00:16:35.320 got it here ready in case you you asked me it's 00:16:35.320 --> 00:16:37.799 called it's the john renborn group and made in 00:16:37.799 --> 00:16:41.289 bremen we did a live recording in bremen the 00:16:41.289 --> 00:16:44.509 radio and somebody found it and the album has 00:16:44.509 --> 00:16:46.929 been released at the end early part of this year. 00:16:46.970 --> 00:16:52.809 It was recorded on the 14th of February in 1978 00:16:52.809 --> 00:16:59.809 and it's released on MIG and a German company. 00:17:00.090 --> 00:17:02.889 And that's on CD and can be downloaded as well 00:17:02.889 --> 00:17:06.029 I guess. I'm assuming so I mean I don't really 00:17:06.029 --> 00:17:07.910 know I don't even know if I'm going to get any 00:17:07.910 --> 00:17:11.369 royalties from this one. I need to get in touch 00:17:11.369 --> 00:17:14.349 with a record company. They did come ask me to 00:17:14.349 --> 00:17:17.250 do the liner notes, which I did, and they asked 00:17:17.250 --> 00:17:21.529 me to approve the graphics, which are really 00:17:21.529 --> 00:17:24.829 nice. But that's apparently doing really well. 00:17:25.410 --> 00:17:28.490 Now, this is as the John Renborn group, is it, 00:17:28.930 --> 00:17:33.819 this live gig in 1978? We're taking a quick break 00:17:33.819 --> 00:17:36.279 to talk about the fuel behind today's episode. 00:17:36.940 --> 00:17:39.099 If you're like me, coffee isn't just a morning 00:17:39.099 --> 00:17:41.920 ritual, it's a necessity. But let's be honest, 00:17:42.259 --> 00:17:44.319 the traditional coffee cycle usually ends up 00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:47.819 in a mid -afternoon crash or those caffeine jitters 00:17:47.819 --> 00:17:51.039 that actually make it harder to focus. That's 00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:53.500 why I'm so excited to share that this show has 00:17:53.500 --> 00:17:55.680 brought you an association with the Strong Coffee 00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:58.500 Company. 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Just head 00:19:45.990 --> 00:19:49.210 to thestrongcoffeecompany .com or simply go to 00:19:49.210 --> 00:19:51.630 the show notes below and click on the link there. 00:19:51.890 --> 00:19:57.809 That's CBUKRDUX to guarantee your 20 % discount. 00:19:58.430 --> 00:20:00.650 By buying this product, you're not only supporting 00:20:00.650 --> 00:20:03.349 the companies that work with us, or just supporting 00:20:03.349 --> 00:20:05.849 the channel, you're also joining the Chatterbox 00:20:05.849 --> 00:20:08.710 community's commitment to the environment. 1 00:20:08.710 --> 00:20:11.309 % of all commissions are donated to the Stripe 00:20:11.309 --> 00:20:14.609 Climate Program to help remove CO2 from the atmosphere. 00:20:30.430 --> 00:20:34.450 Jackie, tell us a couple of songs from that live 00:20:34.450 --> 00:20:40.250 album that jump straight into your mind. Right, 00:20:40.410 --> 00:20:43.930 well, there's a song called A Maid in Bedlam. 00:20:44.970 --> 00:20:47.509 That's why they've called this album A Maid in 00:20:47.509 --> 00:20:53.529 Bremen. There's a few pieces by John, instrumental 00:20:53.529 --> 00:20:59.069 pieces with John and Tony and Kesha. to have 00:20:59.069 --> 00:21:04.250 a look. We recorded William Winsbury, Cruel Sister, 00:21:05.049 --> 00:21:09.470 Kokomo Blues, Death of the Lady, Western Wine, 00:21:10.490 --> 00:21:12.250 Sweet Potato, which is an instrument of John 00:21:12.250 --> 00:21:15.650 Barleycorn. I mean, Tony had a good voice too, 00:21:15.769 --> 00:21:17.450 so the three -part harmonies, and when Sue was 00:21:17.450 --> 00:21:21.410 singing as well, four parts, it was lovely. It 00:21:21.410 --> 00:21:24.049 was so nice to sing with other people. Sure. 00:21:24.289 --> 00:21:26.170 No, of course, yes, of course, because you had 00:21:26.170 --> 00:21:28.750 been basically, pentangled, the lead singer, 00:21:28.890 --> 00:21:32.150 hadn't you, as far as I'm aware? Yes. For the 00:21:32.150 --> 00:21:35.089 stuff I've heard, anyway. Yeah, John did a bit 00:21:35.089 --> 00:21:38.730 of harmony singing some of Burt's songs. He would 00:21:38.730 --> 00:21:41.750 sing his own songs, or ask me to sing them, and 00:21:41.750 --> 00:21:44.490 I would do harmonies like Burt sang. But to actually 00:21:44.490 --> 00:21:47.069 do three -part harmonies, you know, and work 00:21:47.069 --> 00:21:51.569 on stuff as a singing group was very different. 00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:56.400 Well, it meant I wasn't like, just on the spotlight, 00:21:56.640 --> 00:22:00.019 you know? It's like, I'm not a very good front 00:22:00.019 --> 00:22:02.700 person, to be honest. I'd rather sort of sit 00:22:02.700 --> 00:22:05.980 at the back. Well, I would never have guessed 00:22:05.980 --> 00:22:09.019 that, never have guessed that. Jack, if these 00:22:09.019 --> 00:22:12.759 years are right, 1981, it looks like Pentangle 00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:17.849 actually reformed... with that name, like a second 00:22:17.849 --> 00:22:21.450 or reincarnation of Pentangle. I know John Renborn's 00:22:21.450 --> 00:22:27.069 there. You're at the front, lead singer. So yeah, 00:22:27.069 --> 00:22:30.269 who else joined you on the sort of the Pentangle 00:22:30.269 --> 00:22:34.430 Mark II, perhaps we could call it? Well, we did. 00:22:34.789 --> 00:22:36.809 The original band got together because we'd been 00:22:36.809 --> 00:22:41.049 given a Lifetime Achievement Award by BBC2's 00:22:41.049 --> 00:22:45.380 Folk Awards. Nice. when we all got together I 00:22:45.380 --> 00:22:47.700 mean we couldn't stop talking and we were reminiscing 00:22:47.700 --> 00:22:51.160 and it was just so funny and it's how each of 00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:55.000 us had remembered the same something that had 00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:57.599 happened and we all remembered in different ways 00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:00.980 and it was really funny but then it was put to 00:23:00.980 --> 00:23:03.019 us that it might be nice to do a tour so we did 00:23:03.019 --> 00:23:08.700 a tour in 2008 and we went to Australia, a tour 00:23:08.700 --> 00:23:11.789 of the UK And it wasn't really... John wasn't 00:23:11.789 --> 00:23:14.190 really happy. He wanted to go back to college. 00:23:15.490 --> 00:23:17.750 And he went to Dartington. He wanted a music 00:23:17.750 --> 00:23:21.369 degree. So he decided to leave and Mike Pigott 00:23:21.369 --> 00:23:25.089 came in. The great fiddle player. Violin player. 00:23:25.750 --> 00:23:30.309 It's the hot club jazz. And he's fairly local 00:23:30.309 --> 00:23:32.529 to me. So he joined and he'd worked with Bert 00:23:32.529 --> 00:23:36.190 anyway during that... when Pentangle weren't 00:23:36.190 --> 00:23:38.490 together. He'd worked with Bert and with Ralph 00:23:38.490 --> 00:23:42.769 McTel. And he stayed for a couple of years and 00:23:42.769 --> 00:23:46.630 I think we had Rod Clements for a bit And then 00:23:46.630 --> 00:23:49.490 Peter Kertley and he was he stayed for the longest 00:23:49.490 --> 00:23:53.109 So Terry Danny left after we did an album called 00:23:53.109 --> 00:23:56.430 open the door, which I think is going to be released 00:23:56.430 --> 00:24:03.890 streaming Okay, and we did an album with the 00:24:03.890 --> 00:24:06.539 last one that Terry did was called In The Round, 00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:08.240 and that's going, I think it's at the end of 00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:10.480 this month, it's going to be streamed, those 00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:16.440 two albums. Brilliant. I'm trying to get back 00:24:16.440 --> 00:24:18.880 to what I was talking about. Oh yeah, In The 00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:24.519 Round with Mike Piggott. Yes. Now I've sort of 00:24:24.519 --> 00:24:26.180 teamed up with Mike again over the last couple 00:24:26.180 --> 00:24:28.039 of years, we've done a few things together with 00:24:28.039 --> 00:24:32.579 Kevin, which has been really nice. But then with 00:24:32.579 --> 00:24:38.819 Peter Kirtley, When Danny left after he opened 00:24:38.819 --> 00:24:41.920 the door, Nigel Portman Smith came in because 00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:45.099 he'd been working with Bert in a trio called 00:24:45.099 --> 00:24:50.559 Conundrum. Okay, nice name. And with Martin Jenkins. 00:24:53.059 --> 00:24:59.779 It's all quite incestuous really. Nigel is a 00:24:59.779 --> 00:25:02.900 great fretless bass player, really nice, and 00:25:02.900 --> 00:25:07.509 a lovely piano player too. And then he replaced 00:25:07.509 --> 00:25:11.609 Danny and then Jerry Conway came in to replace 00:25:11.609 --> 00:25:14.490 Terry. Terry was on in the round. After that 00:25:14.490 --> 00:25:17.430 he left and then Jerry came in in 86 I think 00:25:17.430 --> 00:25:21.750 it was. And we just carried on recording, travelling 00:25:21.750 --> 00:25:25.710 to America, travelling Europe, just doing the 00:25:25.710 --> 00:25:28.029 same sort of thing but not on such a high level. 00:25:28.460 --> 00:25:32.440 Sure. Now, you came on another radio station 00:25:32.440 --> 00:25:35.940 and had a chat with me before Jackie, and we 00:25:35.940 --> 00:25:38.200 spoke about an album that had been released, 00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:40.980 I think been out for some time, and we played 00:25:40.980 --> 00:25:43.660 a few tracks off of it as well. What was that 00:25:43.660 --> 00:25:47.759 album? Can you remember what it was? It's already 00:25:47.759 --> 00:25:51.500 been released. It wasn't the one I did with Kevin, 00:25:51.599 --> 00:25:54.880 was it? Not sure. I'm not sure. I'm wondering. 00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:58.039 I think there was some, I won't say there was 00:25:58.039 --> 00:26:01.259 some, John Redborne was on it. And I think it 00:26:01.259 --> 00:26:05.480 might have been even John Redborne group, perhaps. 00:26:07.339 --> 00:26:13.710 Well, I think John had loads of tapes. It might 00:26:13.710 --> 00:26:15.869 be this album that you're thinking about. I think 00:26:15.869 --> 00:26:18.490 it is. John had loads of different formats of 00:26:18.490 --> 00:26:21.069 recordings that he and I had done live and he 00:26:21.069 --> 00:26:24.690 kept saying we must put this out as a duo album 00:26:24.690 --> 00:26:28.009 because we'd never done a duo album. Then he 00:26:28.009 --> 00:26:30.410 promptly went and died and then his son took 00:26:30.410 --> 00:26:33.250 it, got it together and put all the formats, 00:26:33.730 --> 00:26:37.309 mini discs, tapes, reel -to -reel, cassettes, 00:26:37.430 --> 00:26:40.839 you know, different formats. He went into a recording 00:26:40.839 --> 00:26:43.660 studio and put it down into format for a CD. 00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:47.200 And David Suff, who was with Topic Records at 00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:50.059 that time, knew about this. He said, I've been 00:26:50.059 --> 00:26:52.559 out waiting for this for years. John kept saying, 00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:54.819 promising me to get all the stuff together, but 00:26:54.819 --> 00:26:59.660 he never did. So it's been released. I think 00:26:59.660 --> 00:27:05.900 it was about then it was released. Yeah, I'm 00:27:05.900 --> 00:27:10.319 just doing a search here. 2016 finalian evening 00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:12.799 with pentangle topic records. Maybe that was 00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:17.039 it. Maybe, maybe. Maybe, but that was, um, yeah, 00:27:17.140 --> 00:27:19.500 finale. And there was the box set, of course. 00:27:20.259 --> 00:27:24.500 But this one is just John and myself. And it's 00:27:24.500 --> 00:27:28.119 recordings from over a period of time, you know, 00:27:28.259 --> 00:27:31.400 quite a large period of time. It may have been 00:27:31.400 --> 00:27:34.930 that. Okay, obviously I've learned it isn't do 00:27:34.930 --> 00:27:37.109 a polish up and let's get anything that Stevie 00:27:37.109 --> 00:27:39.269 can send me anyway So don't you know, it's it'll 00:27:39.269 --> 00:27:41.970 be a very polished interviewer which they always 00:27:41.970 --> 00:27:46.849 are I've got I've just looked at the discography 00:27:46.849 --> 00:27:51.390 and then at 2021 I think you mentioned one of 00:27:51.390 --> 00:27:55.150 these but there's I see there's four LP reissues 00:27:55.150 --> 00:27:59.509 here for the pentangle, Baskets of Light, Cruel 00:27:59.509 --> 00:28:02.430 Sister and Pentangle. It's all on Renaissance 00:28:02.430 --> 00:28:05.809 record label and all for release this year. So 00:28:05.809 --> 00:28:09.829 that's quite a lot of activity. Oh really? I 00:28:09.829 --> 00:28:12.089 don't know anything about that. Well there you 00:28:12.089 --> 00:28:20.089 are. So if you go to Wikipedia, Pentangle Bands, 00:28:20.230 --> 00:28:24.329 go to discography, scroll down to the LPs and 00:28:24.329 --> 00:28:29.029 that's there. So yeah, there you go. So I was 00:28:29.029 --> 00:28:31.130 going to congratulate you. Sorry you don't know 00:28:31.130 --> 00:28:47.880 anything about it. pentangle all the old stuff 00:28:47.880 --> 00:28:50.880 he's gradually getting in I say newer stuff but 00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:54.500 when once Danny left and then Terry he's checking 00:28:54.500 --> 00:28:56.720 up on they said we just stream them he said because 00:28:56.720 --> 00:28:58.579 it's out there people are playing them and they 00:28:58.579 --> 00:29:00.799 don't own them they don't know the rights to 00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:02.400 them he said you should have the rights to them 00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:06.819 and I'm thinking well yes we should I mean Bert's 00:29:06.819 --> 00:29:10.559 sons and his grandson they will benefit John's 00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:13.319 sons and daughter will benefit it's all done 00:29:13.319 --> 00:29:16.789 it's all above board and it's all done a sick 00:29:16.789 --> 00:29:20.079 operation. Well, nice. So I will therefore, Jackie, 00:29:20.279 --> 00:29:25.900 congratulate you on the four reissues of the 00:29:25.900 --> 00:29:29.900 pentangle LPs. Jackie, well, I hope next time 00:29:29.900 --> 00:29:32.559 that we chat, it is when you're just about to 00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:36.680 commence a world tour that includes Italy. We're 00:29:36.680 --> 00:29:40.200 fingers crossed for that. Sue, have you got any 00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:42.799 more questions for Jackie? No, babe. Jackie, 00:29:43.019 --> 00:29:44.619 if you could tell, thank you very much, of course. 00:29:44.660 --> 00:29:48.710 Could you tell our listeners? about where they 00:29:48.710 --> 00:29:51.549 can find more about you. What website should 00:29:51.549 --> 00:29:54.230 they look at? And also mention Facebook groups, 00:29:54.329 --> 00:29:56.670 pages, anything you've got, if you could let 00:29:56.670 --> 00:30:00.329 them know it now, please. Well, my website, you 00:30:00.329 --> 00:30:07.890 can go on www .jackymuxxi .com. Perfect. Nice 00:30:07.890 --> 00:30:09.430 and easy. I mean, there's loads of websites out 00:30:09.430 --> 00:30:11.450 there that claim to be my website, but they're 00:30:11.450 --> 00:30:15.549 not. If you look up Jackie Muxi, artist. That 00:30:15.549 --> 00:30:18.150 should get you to the right one. Perfect Jackie. 00:30:18.490 --> 00:30:21.730 And also there's Kevin Dempsey's which is www 00:30:21.730 --> 00:30:34.710 .kevindempsey .com Jacky, it's been an absolute 00:30:34.710 --> 00:30:38.049 pleasure again and I'm going to really enjoy 00:30:38.049 --> 00:30:40.369 editing this and putting the songs in. It's going 00:30:40.369 --> 00:30:42.890 to be fantastic. Jacky McSheath, thank you so 00:30:42.890 --> 00:30:44.950 much for coming on Chatterbox UK. Thank you very 00:30:44.950 --> 00:30:46.970 much Jacky. Thank you very much Nick. It's a 00:30:46.970 --> 00:31:12.460 pleasure as always. been listening to the Chatterbox 00:31:12.460 --> 00:31:15.279 Redux podcast with Sue and Nick and today our 00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:18.740 special guest was Jackie McShee of Pentangle. 00:31:21.740 --> 00:31:23.900 If you're interested in becoming a future guest 00:31:23.900 --> 00:31:26.759 on the Chatterbox Redux podcast or the radio 00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:29.160 show Chatterbox UK, you're welcome to submit 00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:32.640 songs, books or whatever it is you do and send 00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:35.779 us a CV, synopsis or press release. However, 00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:38.700 we receive several thousand such press releases 00:31:38.700 --> 00:31:41.920 every week and it's impossible to reply to each 00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:44.859 one individually. Why not email us or leave a 00:31:44.859 --> 00:31:46.819 comment because we'd love to know what you think 00:31:46.819 --> 00:31:49.740 of the podcast. Our email address is nickelbum 00:31:49.740 --> 00:31:53.740 at myyahoo .com. Alternatively, you could write 00:31:53.740 --> 00:32:08.160 to us. And wherever it is you choose to listen 00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:11.119 to the Chatterbox Redux podcast, don't forget 00:32:11.119 --> 00:32:14.319 to give us a like, a follow, a favourite or whatever 00:32:14.319 --> 00:32:17.400 it is on that platform, just so you don't miss 00:32:17.400 --> 00:32:21.410 a future episode. Sue, myself Nick and Twinkle 00:32:21.410 --> 00:32:24.349 the tuxedo cat. Thank you very much for your 00:32:24.349 --> 00:32:26.369 company and we look forward to welcoming you 00:32:26.369 --> 00:32:29.009 again next time for another Chatterbox Redux 00:32:29.009 --> 00:32:31.789 podcast. In the meantime, take care, we thank 00:32:31.789 --> 00:32:34.529 you for your company and we catch you then. Bye 00:32:34.529 --> 00:32:59.349 bye. This is Nick and Sue with Chatterbox giving 00:32:59.349 --> 00:33:04.950 you all you need to know about musical attainment 00:33:04.950 --> 00:33:08.549 Oh yeah Chatterbox