Nick and Sue. This edition of the Chatterbox
Redux podcast is brought to you in association
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More from them in a bit. Welcome back to the
Chatterbox Redux podcast with Sue and Nick and
today our special guest is Graham Lepe Lee. This
is Nick and Sue with Chatterbox giving you all
you need to know about musical entertainment.
Oh yeah! Chatterbox, the best interviews with
Nick and Sue. Chatterbox, the best news We're
just lucky enough to welcome Lee P. Lee. Lee,
welcome. How are you, sir? Hello, Lee. Well,
I look well. Thank you, Nick. Yes, I'm fine.
How are you? We're good, thank you. And I see
that you were born just along the coast from
us. We're based in St. Leonard's, and you were
born along the Sunshine Coast, so... It was.
How did you get into singing? Did you like singing
as a child, or how did you actually get into
it to start with? Well, I used to like Saturday
morning pictures in those days, you know, and
I used to love the cowboys sitting on their horses
with guitars, Gene Auctor and people like that.
I actually had the pleasure of meeting Gene Auctor
many, many, many years later when I did the Grand
Old Opry, but, um, them, and they were my heroes,
and I liked the look of the guitar. So I started
to save up for my paper round, round Eastbourne,
and there was a guitar in the window at one of
the music shops, there was a fiver, and I was
trying to save up for my seven and six a week.
ukulele next to it and it had only 30 volts so
I bought the ukulele and I started on a ukulele
and then we started getting a couple of friends
around my uncle knew how to make a t -chest bass
so he made a t -chest bass for us you know we
were actually pre skipple before skipple really
started about a year or so before skipple really
kicked off so we were well ready Brilliant. So
what was the next move? Did you sort of get to
play around pubs, bars or halls or whatever?
We played in hotels and things in Eastbourne.
We were very popular at the Espresso Lounge and
that because there wasn't anything like it. It
was all new. We were packed. People had come
for miles to see it because it was just new.
It was a novelty. I'm not sure if music was that
good, but it was a novelty. a front a group in
1958 I got off the off at all a front a group
as somebody came down to see us at the London
Palladium. Wow. So I actually started off at
the London Palladium. Although we did go and
do them at Edgeware Road with the Urchin as my
group was called. Urchin? So I fronted a band
that made up a session musician because there
still were rock and roll patterns even then in
58, not really in America, they were not really
in the UK. They were just beginning down to two
highs and everything. And then so I found it
in a group which went on to become, oh god, Hootsmon
and the Moose Loose, I don't know who's from
that one. Lord Rockingham's 11. Lord Rockingham's
11, that's right. Yeah, that's it. I sort of
started at the top and worked down. And when
it sort of finished, I know all the boys went
back to their various sessions and their various
jazz, they were all jazzmen, you know. And Rex
went off to perform, they were rocking. And I
sort of finished up sort of wallowing a little
bit, but I always actually wanted to be an actor.
I didn't want to be a... just the music business
just came along, you know, with acting I wanted
to do. So I went into... shows but they all folded
so I was in trouble so I started doing other
things through her money for some time. A shop
in the Portobello Road and a few stalls around,
you know, that sort of thing. And I'm in the
East End called the Bongo Club where I used to
book the tremolos and give me pays, and all before
they start it's thirty -five a week, thirty -five
a night. I mean you were sort of playing him,
you don't sort of get much bigger than that.
But do you perhaps feel if you weren't, because
Eastbourne, a little bit off the beaten track
if you like, as I look upon Hastings as being
a bit like that, but do you think if you were,
it's difficult to say if you were in Liverpool,
but you say you were pre -Skiffles though, that's
pre -Enquiremen sort of thing. Do you think if
you were in one of the big cities when you first
started, you might have led the way? with like
some skiffle movements, or was it just set the
way it became? Well, I could have led the way
actually, because when I went up to England in
1958, it was just kicking off down the Two Eyes
and everything. But actually, in my days, I was
with Bruce and Hank from Shadow, you know, and
I knew Cliff there as well. But anyway, and they
were all going to the Two Eyes, and Lanny Parnes,
I don't know if you know, Lanny Parnes was the
big role manager at the time. people up right
left and centre, Billy Fury and Matthew Wild
and Wildcats and what, but I was on the podium
you see, so I was already at the top wasn't I?
What I should have done was gone under two eyes,
that's really it, because that was where it was
all really beginning you know, and I just jumped
the gun slightly and of course I was out of sight
out of mind for those two years. but not me.
Well at the time I can see why you thought that
was the gig to be at because you know name -wise
that is that is the the top of the uh well it
was absolutely you know and um unfortunately
the producer was a real old -time theatre man
and he had the director who absolutely hated
the new rock and roll they did music through
the ages and they started off with to rock and
roll and we went from about five numbers and
he'd cut us right down to one. We were only actually
doing one song and that was a whole lot of women.
We only did the one song in the end. We used
to bring a house down in my head. Of course it
wasn't much of a showcase for me just singing
one song you know. So I didn't have to get discovered
from there. No, well, I get that. I mean, was
there any early offers of record deals and things
like that, or was it literally... Oh, yes, yes,
I did. I sent a demo to Tony Hatch. Oh, yes,
yes. Yeah, I remember. And Tony listened to it,
and he loved it, and I went and recorded with
Tony Hatch, and it was a relief. It was a record
for what was all happening, which I'd written
in East Byron. in a way, but, you know, I still
dig it out sometimes. I'll play on my radio program
because I've got a radio show as well, you know,
so I like it. And I have a good time. And it's
a hard thing about that because many years later
we had a phone call come through from America
and they were making a film called The Hatton.
to whether my It's All Happening was available.
What took them so long? Anyway, of course I said
yes. They put Diana Ross and The Supremes, The
Happening. That one, they used that and said
it was far better anyway. So I missed out there.
But yes, I recorded then. I don't remember doing
anything else with Tony Hatch actually. He was
very busy at the time. Oh he was wasn't he? Yeah.
Yeah, I broke Coronation Street, didn't I, the
theme and all that, you know, with his wife.
Jackie Trent. Jackie Trent, absolutely right,
yeah, Jackie Trent, yeah. And, no, I really,
I had to earn money because I had a family then.
Sure. You see, I've had my best baby when I was
quite young. I met Mary in Eastbourne, my wife,
when I was 15. And I went up to London when I
was 18, so, and I knew. because I wanted to be
an actor, all the auditions were in London. Anyway,
so when I had the excuse to go to be at the Palladium,
that was a double bubble, you know, after I went.
But yeah, good times, bad times, you know, I
didn't mop auctions, as I said, I had the club
in the East End, you know, I booked the boys
and everything. Screaming, Lord such, we willy.
You mentioned, you know, about maybe being ahead
of your time and things like that, and we talked
about the Palladium a bit, and of course, you
know, as I said, that is the top of the pile,
isn't it? The Palladium. But of course, looking
back, hindsight for any of us is a great thing,
isn't it? It could have so easily been the other
way, couldn't it? Well, it normally is the other
way. Well, yes, yes. Anyway, so it's all happening
in 1962. You told us a great story about that.
I see you've brought another song out, King of
the Whole Wide World. Yeah, I did that with Ray
Davis. OK. Well, he wrote it or you sang it with
him? Well, I was with the same management as
Ray Davis and Robert Ways and Granville Collins
were his managers and I was with the same management
and they asked Ray to write me a song and he
wrote me and I said, wow, yeah, that's the one
for me, hearing the demo, you know? But they
decided that the demo had turned out so well
that the Kings were going to release it anyway.
And that's with a couple of others, too, with
Matt, Randy, and all that, anyway. And then he
wrote King of the Whole Wide World, and I did
it with him. And, oh, we had Goldie and the Gingerbreads
singing, Madeline Bell singing, Bachbell and
three bells. And when you listen to it, you're
going to hear the Kings, you know, you're going
to hear it. It's a Kings song, that's what it
was, wasn't it? Nick and Sue. Supporting the
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Your musical duo This is Nick and Sue with Chatterbox
Giving you all you need to know about musical
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know but the kings never did you know the only
one they ever they ever recorded with so that's
nice that's a very proud fact isn't it uh what
a record by the way and it's worth 150 quid if
you've got one wow unfortunately I just thought,
oh, she hasn't got any. Around what time did
you decide on the name Leepy Lee? Was that at
the beginning in 62 or was it when you were...
Yeah, I got that. I unfortunately got lumbered
with that name, which I've had to live with all
my life. I think it's a great name. See, you've
got to ask... With a name like that, you never
get taken seriously, you see. So when I try to
do a serious thing, do they... I didn't know
if it was sort of a nickname when you were growing
up around Eastbourne or something. But I'll tell
you something, it's memorable. It's very memorable.
It's catchy and it goes well with the song. Yeah.
Well, we'll talk about your songs in a bit, but
Sue, you've got a question for Lee about his
name, haven't you? Yeah, how did you come up
with Leepy Lee? Well, when things died down a
bit with the palatial and everything... and I
needed to get money because I already have one
child and another one on the way. I had a family,
a lot of those lads were young and they didn't
have any, you know, they had no responsibilities
or anything, you know, but I did, I had a family
so I had to do other things. So I had a bingo
hall in, just started that bingo at the time,
in Shepherd's Bush and I had another one in East
End and Canning Town and I had the club there
and I had a stall in the Portobello Road and
the shop in in the Portobello Road, little shop,
and I would leap in from one job to the next.
And that's literally how it happened. Before
leaping in again, you know, that was stuck. And
I've been lumbered with since. Brilliant, brilliant,
brilliant. I'm now coming on 83 and still leaping.
Oh, brilliant story. Well, you know, there's
always great, nice bit of history there. Anyway,
we need to get into, because we had quite a run
and I don't know what happened to you in Australia
with all those hits. It looks like you were the
second coming almost. But we get to 1968 and,
obvious, we were going to talk about this at
some point, Little Arrows, were you still with?
It's an amazing song and I'm glad there's some
clips of you singing it on YouTube and that.
But how did that come about? How did you choose
that song? Well, like all singers, you need writers,
you know. Nowadays there's more writers, they
write their own stuff about them, but in those
days you didn't. You were a singer and then you
went to a writer for a song, you know. But then
the writers had to sell their songs to the publishers.
And so to find songs, I would go round to all
the publishers, you know, on a regular basis,
you know, just looking for songs, you know. and
they'd play you everything they got and you'd
say, well, I like that, I don't. And one day
I walked into a chapel, I think it was. Oh, yeah,
chapel music, yeah. And there were these young
lads standing there, you know. Young lads standing
there, and a nice enough guy, you know, he was
there to sell some songs, and it was lunchtime,
so he was waiting for everybody to come back
from lunch. I said, well, let's hear them. I
said, because I've got a friend of mine, Gordon
Mills. I knew Gordon Mills. He'd just got Tom
Jones at the time, you know, just got him. But
he was a... Anyway, so Albert said, it was Albert
Hammond, Albert Hammond, so he said, because
he'd only had one little nibble with his pre
and after electric band or something, and I said,
well, let's hear him, you know, I said, because
I know Gordon Mills, you know, just got Tom Jones
to sing out, you know, so I might be able to
get your songs to him. Sure, yes. Anyway, so
he played it, he played two or three to me and
that came up and I said, I like that. I said,
can I take that? He said, well I only got one
copy of it and I said, I will get that to Gordon
Mills. had learnt it. And about a fortnight later
when Gordon came round to play some poker at
Dawes' house, I wouldn't play it, it was too
rich for my blood, but I called him at the door,
he was going out and I said, I want you to hear
this song over the guitar. I don't want to hear
that song, he said, I just lost 400 pounds, he
said, I've not come here. There was a lot of
money in those days. I said, listen, listen,
and I blocked him at the door and I started playing,
I played it. And he listened and he said, I like
that. He said, we'll do that next week. And of
course, next week we went in and we did it. And
that was it, really. but you'll know it when
they hit you cause they Did you have some inkling
or feed it in your water or whatever? That was
the hit, that was it. Did you know straight away?
Did you have a sense it would be? The record?
Yeah, he had little arrows. Did you feel it was
going? I thought it was a hit. That's why I picked
it. I thought it was a hit. Perfect. There was
no question in my mind that it was a hit. Well,
of course it was a question. You're not actually
100 % but I've got a good ear for hits and things.
I had it at that time. that's a hit. Well, you
made it... One of the people on the airplane
as well. Sure. And later on I wanted to do Sweet
Caroline when I had it at least a year out in
the UK and that he wouldn't let me do it. Oh.
Gordon made a few bad decisions as well as good,
you know, he wasn't... I know it was infallible,
I suppose. Well done. Anyway, I knew that, I'm
absolutely certain that was a go. Yeah. Gordon
made a wonderful job of it. Big Jim Sullivan,
Tom's guitarist on the intro, you know, da -da
-da -da -da -da -da -da -da -da -da -da -da -da
-da -da -da -da -da -da -da -da -da -da Yeah
Little arrows, I mean it did rather well around
the world UK number two Australia to Canada eight
I was going to say the actual billboard hot 100
you did rather well there and even better in
the US country chart so that that's pretty good
Which is a weird thing, because I love country,
but I never look on it as a country song at all.
Nor have I. I was surprised to see it there.
We're not arguing about it. A lot of the die
-hard country people don't like me, because they
think that I try to make country pop. Well, you
didn't put yourself in the chart, they had to
talk to whoever did. Anyway, I'm glad you made
it there. Now, Little Arrows, you did an album
of that, which did quite well as well. Wow, that's
amazing. Before we move on from Little Arrows,
I haven't asked this question to anyone for ages
and ages. What was it like? Was it surreal? What
was it like going on top of the pops and all
these things when you'd actually made it, yeah?
Yeah, I just wonder if I wonder if it's a bit
surreal or something but no that's that's that's
brilliant Nothing, literally, literally nothing.
I had to borrow half a clown to go to the music,
to the record company. I walked into the record
company and they said, um, where have you been,
Leapy? And I thought, yeah, I've been anywhere,
really. I didn't have a foe, you see. Because
we were absolutely on the floor. And, um, I looked
in the paper, Daily Mirror or something that
morning and I looked and I saw little arrows
number 13 in a jar. That's when I went down there
and they said we've been looking for you, it's
selling like hotcakes you know. It got mad you
know, the boss of MCA danced on his desk. Here
we go. He said how much do you want? I said well
about 500 quid would be alright. Oh no problem
at all, he wrote me a check for 500. So I went
down there. agency and they said how much you
want we give us 300 something 800 pounds which
in 1968 was a lot of money I mean you could buy
a house for two and a half grand yes yeah yeah
yeah it was a lot of no so and that was wonderful
yeah that's brilliant yeah I've got a question
regarding Little Arrows when you were singing
the song you've got like these high pitch singing
part did you have to train your yes darling perfect
did you have to train your voice to do that train
yourself to strangle them slightly Brilliant.
Brilliant. I could yodel, you see. I was an old
country boy, you know. I could do a bit of yodeling.
No, again, it wasn't that difficult for me. It
is now. Oh, OK. Brilliant. We won't ask you,
I promise. Of course, after Little Arrows, there
was obviously the task was to find a follow -up
song, and I see Here Comes the Rain was the next
one. which was another smack, and normally you
give the writer the second, the follow -up piece,
and it makes sense, you know, coming in the same
idiom, same ilk, you know, not the same ilk.
But Gordon wanted a piece of Leicester -Belle
size for Engelpert, because he had Engelpert
as well as Tom, and he wanted a piece of Leicester
-Belle size from Barry Mason and Les Reed who
wrote it. and he wanted it for Engelbert and
they said to Gordon, we'll give you Bruce Clifton
Bell's sign for Engelbert as long as we get the
follow up for Leopold Lee. Uh huh, yes. So that
and there was murders. Albert didn't speak to
me for years. He thought it was me! Oh dear,
oh dear, okay. Tom was the most important to
Gordon, and Engelberg was a far away second really,
up in the way on the phone for hours while he
talked to Tom on the other phone. And I was like,
you know, I needed a different manager really.
I needed a manager that just had me, you know.
So anyway, I got the second one, which was Here
Comes the Rain, which I did in Cannes. stormed
because it was a great big orchestra and it was
a great big theatre, a beautiful, mighty hand,
an acting, a 40 -feet orchestra and everybody
said they would release it because all the agents
from all over the world are there, you see, and
they all said that they would put it out because
when it came out on the disc it was really, it
was, it wasn't mine, it was a big song, you know,
a big waltz. He called it one in Germany because
it was un papa, un papa, un papa, but died on
his behind. I think, what was the name that did
it? what she said and she still would make a
good ashtray which was about right actually you
could make ashtrays out of them and you melt
them down you could you could and is it any nightingale
you're thinking of any nightingale yes first
female DJ legend she would talk about me after
that always because when I got on her show I
went near her she thought I was going to say
something over the air about her Oh, dear. Anyway,
the album Leepy Lee, you've got some quite good
sort of Australian hits came out of that, like
we followed with Little Yellow Aeroplane. South
Africa, actually. OK. And a wonderful song. And
how it only got to number 29 in the UK, I will
never know. Good morning. Nick and Sue, if you're
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or for a fellow fan, you need to check out the
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colours. It takes two to tangle And two to present
a radio show So here's Nick and Sue Your musical
duo What a great song! I know, yeah. What a great
song. Yeah, I still do that in the act. Sure
you do? I do in the act, yeah, and it goes down
quite well. Brilliant. It did quite well in Germany.
Another one did quite well in Germany. Good Morgan,
you see. Ah, yes, yes, of course, of course.
You know, when and what? This and perhaps. God
knows. Who knows? Well, yes. I'd say it's hindsight
again, isn't it? 1974, no, I didn't know about
this one. A minor UK hit, actually. Every Road
Leads You Back, and it came from an album of
the same name. Every Road Leads Back to You.
Well, that was from an album I did in 72 or 73.
That was going to be my big comeback. And that
was written and produced, the whole thing, by
Keith Pocker of The Seekers. Oh, yes, yes. Yes,
absolutely. Love The Seekers, yeah. Well, Keith
is a very good producer as well. He's Australian,
of course. And we did that, and the company,
which was Bell Records, often thought it was
going to be a smash. They thought it was going
to be an absolute smash. Another number one.
Everybody was rambling. They had a big convention,
and they played it all the time during this convention
of all their people from all over the world.
And we really thought, I thought I'm going to
pay the mortgage and everything. The problem
is... Leave his law, you know. You know about
leave his law? Go on, I didn't... No. Yeah, leave
his law there. No, yeah, every road leads back
to you. In those days, those days, they used
to put the chaffer made up from particular shops
all over the country. Oh yes, yes, yes. average,
and then they would create the charts from that,
let them know it was done, without all the internet
and everything, of course. So the shopkeepers
would order in the ones that were doing well.
Well, mine were doing very well, and we went
to 54, I think, and the base 50 rollers were
also with battle. Okay. The next week only went
up to 51. In actual fact, if we had had 30 Friday
Saturday sales, we'd have gone into the top 30,
easy. But it only went into 51, so it didn't
even crack the 50. Well, the shopkeepers then
look at it and say, oh my God, that's only gone
up to 51, it's only gone up two or three places.
Don't order me any more of those. They didn't
bother to order it. I hear various stories from
people from that era and all I can say is that
the record industry certainly did stink, didn't
it, at the time. That's a very polite way of
wording it. okay now um i i i understand somewhere
around 40 years ago you decided to leave the
uk and go out to the med and uh i don't blame
you to have warm sun it just looks nice here
but i'd rather have i'd rather have your temperature
in a bit of a tan to be honest with you yeah
i was just gonna ask you where you were sorry
oh i'm on my yorker oh wow i couldn't remember
which one it was yeah lovely yeah opening up
a little bit now that's cool absolutely Lee question
this now you almost well you did basically answer
one of my questions earlier on and that was do
you still play and sing and that and you've already
mentioned that you do still The Spanish authorities
are still a bit firm with everything. Anyway,
we're just waiting what happens over the next
couple of months because the season doesn't start
in April anyway. No, no, fingers crossed. Now,
when you do play around Mallorca, is your audience
mainly expats or Brits on holiday or locals?
Mainly Brits on holiday. Brilliant. That's fantastic.
it's on holiday no that's nice really nice i'm
glad to hear that you're still still uh still
active there and i'm sure sure the sunshine helps
i'm sure the i'm sure the sunshine uh helps helps
you feel good because i know it with me uh lee
is there uh any do you have any presence on social
media is on any website or is there a facebook
page or anywhere where people can find you maybe
Well, I've got, there is a Leafy League website
which is not very well kept up to tell you the
truth. It's there somewhere, I haven't been there
for ages. I'm definitely on Facebook. Lee, thank
you for coming on Chatterbox. Lee, it's been
amazing to chat to you at last and thank you
for coming on Chatterbox UK. Thank you sir. Take
care, bye bye. You've been listening to the Chatterbox
Redux podcast with Sue Nick And today, our special
guest was Graham Leapy Lee. If you're interested
in becoming a future guest on the Chatterbox
Redux podcast or the radio show Chatterbox UK,
you're welcome to submit songs, books or whatever
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Thank you very much for your company and we look
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you then. This is Nick and Sue with Chatterbox
giving you all you need to know about musical
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