Recovery Radio [music and singing]
KMP300
[music]
>> coffee constantly, right guys?
Up top. Just kidding. All right.
So excited. We're going to continue with
the what does the big book say? Workshop
information.
And I'm going to
uh
introduce a very close friend of mine
and his name is Dave. Hi Dave.
>> I'm great. I was telling them uh last
time we did this, we did record this
segment already.
>> And and I don't I don't know if we'll be
as funny this time as we were.
[laughter]
>> So we I I thought we got really funny
about the male modeling at the end.
>> We'll try.
>> Okay. We are going to talk about step
one.
Um
according to the big book, what does the 27
big book say about step one?
Not what everybody else says about step
one, not what my sponsor tells me about
step one, not what I've heard repeatedly
and still hear all the time about step
one, but what the big book actually says
about step one. Because a lot of people
believe that they go right out of the
big book, they do the steps right out of
the big book. And Dave and I have
learned in part from doing this workshop
and this study that
um that's true. A lot of people actually 40
believe that and then when we start
going through it, it's vastly different
from what they've been doing. And so,
so there's a lot of uh popular
commonplace things we could say about
step one,
but
and and and with the time constraints we
have, we're not going to be able to get
into every nook and cranny the way we
normally have and sometimes do.
But I want to
paint the general picture today 53
and so people have it and then invite
people to do some homework to write in
>> and
you know and we will discuss anything
that feels appropriate to discuss in the
next show or in an upcoming show or
we'll answer the email whatever there's
questions commentary things like that we
can make it part of that discussion. So
um but I just want to put the the I want
to paint with broad strokes today
because there's so much here. This is
where the problem and the solution are 66
intersected within the fellowship
to
really create a a message that
is confusing frankly and
um we'll get to that more and more but
for the purposes of this podcast
I want to say a few things about step
one and and then have Dave say some
And we'll talk about these things. So
what I wanted to say about it is
the big book says the first step in
recovery is that we need to admit to our
innermost selves that we're alcoholic. 79
That's the first step in recovery. How
to make somebody do that?
You can't make somebody do that. It is
very subjective and it's very personal.
Also the authors say their hope right
away they say their hope is that no
further authentication will be
necessary. Their hope is that a reader
will just read this, read the alcoholic
problem described and say, "I drink like
that and I am willing to
uh work this take this program of
spiritual action." 92
And
so, so the clear-cut directions
don't begin with step one in my
understanding.
it. They begin in the chapter how it
works. How it works does not start with
step one.
How it works starts with step three.
They describe they, you know, they give
a overview of everything. They list the
steps, all the steps,
and we'll get to that more, but there's
no part that says in italics, this is 105
step one. This is what we did.
>> Right?
Because you can't make somebody reach
bottom.
You can't make somebody reach a place
where they are convinced that their life
has become unmanageable. The other thing
I wanted to say is so what they do
instead is they tell story after story.
They give illustration after
illustration, chapter after chapter
saying do you get it? Do you understand?
Do you drink this way? Do you understand 118
that you're going to drink no matter
what eventually if you're an alcoholic?
No matter what with your own willpower.
If you're relying on knowing how bad it
is, if you're relying on knowing the
consequences, if you are relying on
playing the tape through, if you're
relying on your own mental power and
know you're a real alcoholic,
eventually you will drink.
Do you get it? And then once you start
drinking, you're off to the races.
And they say this over and over and over 131
again
with the hope that we
say, "Yeah, that's me. I get it." And
the other thing I wanted to say is about
there's a lot I want to say. One thing I
want to say is about
unmanageability.
our life becomes very manageable.
Every single life you could make an
argument is not manageable
in with the you know in the absence of
God. You can make that argument for
sure. We're going to get to all that. 144
You're maybe an idiot while sober. Maybe
you make stupid
decisions while sober. Maybe you make
really selfish, destructive, crazy
decisions while sober. My understanding,
having dissected the book over and over
again through the study, is that that's
not what they're addressing in step one.
And this is what they are addressing.
And it is the car dealership analogy
that I like so much. If you go to a car
dealer and say, "I want this car." And
the car dealer says, "Hey, 157
it's the color that you love. It has the
gas mileage that you love. It's the
price you love. Everything about it,
it's perfect. There's one thing about
it, Dave.
>> What's that?"
>> It loses its brakes sometimes.
>> When?
>> Well, it varies.
Sometimes it's at the same time all the
time, but it's really It varies. And you
don't know how long you're going to lose
the brakes for. Maybe I'll just say this 170
car maybe 5% of the time.
>> Is that a drivable car?
>> Can I live with that?
>> I mean,
>> I guess that's up to me. It's personal.
>> Yes.
>> Subjective.
>> Yes. And that's exactly
what they're talking about in my belief
and understanding when they say our
lives have become unmanageable. They're
saying an alcoholic lifestyle. If you're
living an alcoholic lifestyle, you're 183
practicing drinking, you are like a car
that loses its brakes sometimes,
>> right? [snorts] And when your life
becomes unmanageable slash your car
becomes undrivable is subjective and
it's personal.
And I know people I sponsored a guy who
had over 20 DUIs. 27 DUIs.
>> Wow.
>> And it didn't seem possible.
But somehow he racked it up for years
and the laws were different. And bottom
line, he you you you could look at him 196
and keep saying to yourself, this is the
bottom. This now now he gets it. Now
he's going to stop. Now he has admitted
to his innermost self that he's
alcoholic, but you can't it's an
internal thing. The point I'm trying to
make is his car had no brakes.
>> Yeah.
>> His car lost brakes like basically
completely and he was like, "No, this is
still a drivable car."
And then there's people that I know who
one thing happens, they lose their 209
brakes for
one moment and they're like, "This is
undrivable.
I need to stop drinking. My life has
become unmanageable." So, and a reason I
wanted to talk about that right out of
the gate is because I think it's so it
makes such a difference in the
experience you're having
when you are going through life sober
for years saying you're unmanageable,
your life's unmanageable, your life's
unmanageable 222
when
>> right
>> I just think that that it it affects a
lot of the rest of what we're going to
do here in a really in in a stifling ne
it's not a it's not an uplifting
It's not as it's not a freeing mindset
mentality to me. It wasn't to me I
should say.
>> Yeah. Thank you.
>> That was my experience. Yes.
>> So your thoughts on what I've said,
Dave? 235
Uh what comes to mind immediately is I'm
going to throw another analogy out
there.
And keep in mind that I
my first introduction to Alcoholics
Anonymous I was 20 years old and uh and
I didn't actually get sober until I was
40. And so there was like a 20 year span
there
of going in and out of alcoholics
anonymous and uh all over the country
and different
philosophies and approaches to the steps 248
and different
methods.
Um,
and it was all kind of, you know, very
confusing like you were talking about
that,
um,
I was under the impression
that,
um, all of pretty much all of my, I
guess, uh, quirky behavior,
my insecurities, and, uh,
my, I guess, lack of social skills and 261
my control issues, all of that was
alcoholism.
and uh
I stayed sick for a very long time. So
So the analogy I want to use is
if if I were to make a cake and I got a
I got a a box of cake mix and on the box
on the back of the box it has it has you
know [snorts] 12 ingredients
and it calls for you know flour and
sugar and eggs and milk and so on and so
on.
If at some point I get to where it says 274
eggs and I don't have eggs. So I'm
digging through the fridge and I'm like,
I got chicken liver. I don't have any
eggs, but I do have chicken liver and
they both come from a chicken. So I'm
I'm sure this is going to be okay. It It
doesn't matter if I follow the
directions.
Doesn't matter if I follow them
precisely up to that point and precisely
after that point, I'm not going to end
up with a cake.
>> I love I love that analogy. 287
In looking back at my experience and my
history, like I said, over this 20 years
span and these different approaches and
the different mentalities and different
understandings,
um, I feel like I I can say right now
that I right off the bat, I used eggs. I
mean, I used chicken lover. And that I
think
honestly in my opinion the step one
[snorts] often times you know kind of
what we're discussing here it's this
word of mouth 300
message that we've gotten
is the chicken lover
and clearing that up replacing that not
using that and using actual eggs. The
eggs are in the big book
is very simple in the big book. There's
there's honestly there's one test that
the Big Book offers for the reader. If
you want to determine whether or not
you're an alcoholic, you could try this.
You could go to the nearest barroom and
try to drink and stop abruptly and try
more than once. Try to drink and then 313
stop and try it more than once. There's
nothing whatsoever about, you know, what
are your you have any kind of quirky
behaviors? Are you like extra insecure?
Have you always felt like not a part of?
There's like none of that is in there.
That's the test if you want to find out
if you're an alcoholic.
But like I said, my understanding of
that was so skewed for for so many
years. And this just this mentality of
that every quirky behavior, every
insecurity or weird thought that I have 326
is is because I'm an alcoholic. It it it
kept me
two things stick out in my mind vividly.
It made me resentful at the rest of the
world. If you're not an alcoholic, I
really didn't think that you had I
didn't really look at other people and
honestly, as sick as it sounds, I just
didn't really feel like they had
feelings. And I just didn't consider
them to be really, you know, human with
with feelings and and that they just had
things made and then life was handed to 339
them on a silver platter. They didn't
have the kind of struggles that I have.
They didn't have this insecurities that
I have and the fears and control issues
and you know, however we've blown that
out [clears throat] of proportion. So,
it made me resentful at the rest of
humanity [clears throat and cough]
>> and it also
enabled me to stay a victim,
>> right?
>> I don't have it. I don't have it as good
as you do. You have it better than me. 352
You have it easier than I do.
>> I'm an alcoholic and something that
alcoholism is something that I'm
powerless over and I will always be
struggling with this for the rest of my
life. I'm mad at you
and I'm a victim. Right.
>> And I never found
I never found any long-term sobriety uh
under under those conditions. Um and I
never found freedom [snorts]
uh or happiness or real connections to
other people. And like I said, that's 365
just to put it simply, that's that was
me using chicken liver right off the
bat. And it just it just didn't matter
what I did thereafter. it was I never
ended up with, you know, a beautiful
cake.
I love that analogy and it's also really
sad to me because I I I believe that
that's a very common experience
and
I've spent a lot of time
thinking about this and and and
thinking about all the ways that has 378
come to this and the and the things in
the big book that are taken out of
context. text
and all the other literature that goes
against the big book that is
supports the
confusion almost, you know,
>> right?
>> Um,
but yeah, the big book is super simple
in its description of the real
alcoholic. It's super simple. It has
nothing to do with our character 391
defects. We become alcoholic.
were not born alcoholic in the beginning
of the book would become alcoholic.
Dr. Silkworth describes the alcoholic as
often entirely normal in every respect.
Entirely normal in every respect.
And
um it talks about the main problem of
the alcoholic centering in his mind. I
talked about that last time.
the bedments.
They're describing human problems.
>> Okay. 404
>> Um
there's so much more. There's um
and little things, a lot of little
things, too, that end up meaning a lot
later on, like self-nowledge. Here's
one. The big book bends over backwards
to say self-nowledge is not the answer.
It's not the answer. It's not
So meaning
you can understand
your alcoholism completely. You can
write about it.
You can analyze it. You can study it. 417
you can and it's not
I know that that process really helps
some people but it also I think kills
some people because some people are not
in a position to dick around for a month
writing about step one. If I were told
to do that I would be dead.
>> Yeah.
>> There's no doubt in my mind I would be
dead.
I didn't it was urgent. I didn't have
time to
I knew I was an alcoholic. I admitted to 430
my innermost self I was an alcoholic.
There's no doubt.
>> And what always
it's just something to think about is
the big book just bends over backwards
to say self-nowledge doesn't help and
but writing about your alcoholism is
self-nowledge. No.
>> Yes.
>> Yes. Yeah. I was as you were saying that
I was just thinking about how many times
I've heard
people say that you know they got a 443
sponsor and their sponsor's direction is
that they have to stay sober for 30 days
before they start doing any work. 30
days before I give you step one
instructions,
>> right? And um
that is it's so heartbreaking and so
confusing because
if you're an alcoholic, I mean, if if
you understood step one, you would
understand that you can't ask an
alcoholic to stay sober for 30 days. I
mean, they may be able to, they may not, 456
you know, but
>> you're asking, you're confusing them
right off the bat, saying, "I want you
to use your self-nowledge and your and
your willpower to stay sober, and if you
really want it, you'll stay sober, and
then we'll
>> right
>> and then we'll start learning about step
one." And and then, you know, after 30
days, okay, so step one is essentially
that you don't have the power to refrain
from drinking, you know, on a permanent 469
basis,
>> right?
And I think part of the reason I think
it's well-intentioned how we got here. I
really do. But
I think that part of the problem is
there are people who can abstain for a
month easily.
>> Yeah.
>> And they so you know and then and then
on top of that they were told to abstain
for a month and write about step one and
you know and then they were told you 482
know somebody else told them you know it
goes on and on. But there are people who
are uncap incapable of doing that. And
>> yeah,
>> this is two of them right here.
>> Yeah.
>> And I and I and I've [clears throat]
watched a lot of people get wiped out
during this time. I mean, more than
anything else, I've I mean, I can't tell
the beginning of the
I can't tell you how many times I've
I've talked to somebody who's like 495
dying. They want to drink. They're the
the obsession's crazy. And and the
conversation is, you know, where are you
at with the steps? Cuz you the relief
doesn't come in step one. There's no
relief that comes in step one or step
two. You're still flying over
unprotected skies. And
>> so many times I've said like, do you
know your where you at? There's steps
and and well, I'm not allow I'm not done
with step one,
>> right? 508
>> Well, do you have you admitted to your
inner self you're alcoholic? Oh, yeah,
definitely.
Well, my sponsor won't let me.
move on. And that
it it works for people. It also I I I've
seen it. It kills people, too. And and
more more to the point is
if you disagree with all this and if
everything we're saying has helped you
and is helping you, that's beautiful.
All we're saying is it's not in the big
book to tell somebody to wait. It's not 521
in the big book to write about their
alcoholism. That's not going right out
of the big book. That's not in the big
book. So, at least I mean that's the
purpose of the study is what does the
big book say? The big book says there's
no writing in step one. The big book
says
don't ask somebody to stay sober for 30
days and test their resolve and you know
doesn't it doesn't that's not the that's
not the direction.
>> Yeah. 534
Yeah. I think it's worth noting that
the original you know roughly 100
members a had accumulated roughly 100
members when they decided to write down
write the big book and uh those original
100 members had actually uh worked a
six-step
program and the first step was complete
deflation.
Complete deflation. So, kind of along
the lines of what you were saying
earlier, like how do you help a person
achieve that? You know, is there is 547
there some sort of a writing assignment
that you can you can give to them where
they're, you know, they'll they'll work
this assignment and at the end they'll
be like, "Oh, I'm completely deflated.
You know, I'm out of ideas. I'm willing
to do anything." You know, so it's food
for thought. Is there a way to do that?
>> Right.
>> According to the big bug, no. Um but
[clears throat] also I think it's worth
noting along those lines and you know in
in the chapter working with others we 560
meet a newcomer
you know we have a talk with him blah
blah blah there's you know a little bit
of instruction there um but you know if
he doesn't if he's not interested in
your solution you know wish him well he
may be more willing after he gets hurt
some more you know um he may be more
receptive when he's depressed I think it
says it you know three or four times in
there that like ah he might need to hurt
hurt some more, you know, wait until the
end of a spring. 573
>> Yeah.
>> Like because that's usually when a I can
tell you I I I try to speak for myself,
but I can tell you I I had achieved
complete deflation. I don't know how
many times in my little 20 years stretch
there. Um but after every time, like I
was willing. I you give me a solution,
you know? I I'll I'll do what you I I'll
do whatever you're suggesting. Like I'm
willing.
But um as I start to feel a little bit
better, as time passes and I start to 586
feel a little bit better, my willingness
kind of fades and I'm not really willing
to,
>> right?
>> You know, I'm okay where I'm at. So
>> yeah, I mean, yeah, it does say it
multiple times. The more hopeless he
feels, the better.
>> Yeah,
>> I remember. So, when somebody comes to
me completely deflated,
I mean, I kind of, you know, like I
said, you know, I I sit down, I have a 599
talk with a person, kind of get an idea
of where they're at. But if they're
completely deflated, they need a
solution. Now, I'm not going to Here's
the way I look at it. Honestly, if if
[snorts]
I take my direction from God,
somebody comes to me, they're in
desperate need of a solution, I'm going
to ask God, God, do you want me to help
this person to establish a relationship
with you? Can you imagine God saying, "I
don't know how willing he is, Dave. Make 612
sure he waits, you know, maybe make him
wait 30 days before you before you, you
know, help him connect to me."
There's people that would there's
there's people that would argue that
that they that is their direction and
it's worked for them, you know.
>> True. Yeah.
>> I mean, but
>> I I agree with you. Like so I I agree
with what you said and a lot of people
do kind of thrive on that kind of uh
direction. But I've also I also feel 625
like a lot of people get hurt.
I mean, it'd be one if it'd be it'd be
one thing if more people were getting
sober than ever. Then this would be a
different conversation. If if if
Alcoholics Anonymous were mushrooming
and success were flying high,
>> it'd be a different conversation. But
but it's most people don't stay sober.
And I I personally have come to see
and believe for myself that this is some
of why
I concur. 638
>> And and if and again, if if you disagree
with all this, that's that's we're not
saying like this is right. We're not
saying this is the only way, whatever,
but this is what's in the the big book
does not say right about step one.
So at least at least
at least
know that you know it's it makes me
think of Christian's brilliant analogy
about the yoga studio. You such a these
great analogies where it's like there's
a yoga studio and everybody's doing yoga 651
and these people come in and they start
doing you know crossfit you know.
>> Yeah. And then people are like, I'm
butchering it, Christian. Sorry,
but you know, and they're like, oh, this
is yoga. We're doing yoga.
And then people start following that and
saying, "Oh, this is yoga."
And it's not yoga. Like, it's okay to do
that, but don't call it yoga. Don't say
that you're going right out of the big
book of Alcoholics Anonymous if you're
having people write down their 664
definitions
because none of that is in the big book.
It's not in the big book.
And it kills people like me.
And I have known far more people who
have been harmed by that and my
um experience with them than helped.
There are people who are helped by it.
But again, those are by and large people
who the big book even talks about that
too. How long you can quit on a
non-spiritual basis depends on you. It's
very idiosyncratic. It's different for 677
everybody.
>> Yeah.
>> And then add to that that not everybody
in AA is an alcoholic. There's hard
drinkers.
And so you have all these different
people passing on this message with
really good intentions that is
accidentally causing a lot of harm.
>> Yeah.
Yeah. That's weird because I on one hand
I I I I kind of appreciate
how much I struggled over those years. I 690
feel like um my experience now is
just so much sweeter
because of how much I struggled for so
many years.
>> So we'll throw another analogy out
there.
I uh
>> Wait, wait, Dave, do you remember Do you
remember when your nickname was analogy
Dave?
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> And then we tried to make you
>> We tried to make you Latino Latino Dave. 703
>> Latin Dave.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Latin Dave.
>> Yeah.
>> But that didn't take cuz you're not
Latin.
>> Right.
>> Yeah. People were like, "Oh, I saw Dave
the other day." And you'd be like, "Oh,
Latin Dave." No. You know Dave, the guy
that drives the Mustang.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Latin Dave. No, no, no, no. Not 716
Latin. No. No. Analogy Dave. Analogy
Dave.
[laughter]
>> Yeah. Anyways, so yeah, please an
analogy.
So my analogy is that
like I live in Southern California right
now and
I feel like
I
appreciate being warm more than somebody
who maybe grew up in Southern California
cuz I grew up in in Nebraska where it 729
gets like bitter bitter cold, you know?
So, my analogy is like, you know, if
you're outside and it's it's 70° outside
and and you walk into a house and it's
70°, you're like, h, you know, feels
nice. Like, whatever. But if you've ever
been in like 10 below zero weather and
you walk into a house that's 70°, it's
like, oh my god, it feels so good in
here. is it was worth the pain of being
that cold to be feeling warm is just so
wonderful, you know, it was worth it.
>> And so in that sense, I I kind of look 742
back at my history and like I struggled
a lot. I did and I was confused and I
was unhappy a lot. And the message, the
experience that I'm having now is I
believe just that much sweeter because
of that. I I I I feel like, you know, in
order to like really truly appreciate
something, you have to experience the
opposite. If you to like really truly
experience or uh to to truly appreciate
a spiritual way of life, you have to
have gone through hell. And and and I
feel like I went through a lot of hell 755
and my the spiritual life is is just
that much sweeter now because of that.
So, with that said, and to a degree I
can kind of appreciate all the struggle
and all the confusion that I had,
but
um
I just I I I firmly believe that I was
just lucky enough to stay alive.
>> Yeah. You're lucky
>> that long.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. 768
>> I mean,
>> I could have very easily died
[clears throat] and not had the
experience that I'm having now.
>> That's right. So, like you said, you
know, I don't want to poo poo anybody
else's approach or or anything like
that. And I'm not saying anything's
anybody's doing anything wrong. You
know, we've talked about that before. I
know you've used the Trader Joe's
analogy. Like, you know, you can go to
Trader Joe's. So, for you and I, we're 781
to kind of set the scene for for the
listeners. We're usually uh in this
parking lot at this meeting hall that
we're at and and there's a Trader Joe's
like right across the street and and
we'll be talking to a newcomer. will be
like, "Hey, you know, I just want you to
get to Trader Joe's. You know, just get
to Trader Joe's. I don't care how you
get there. You want to ride part of the
way with me? Great. You want to ride
with somebody else? Great. Like, I don't
care. Just get to Trader Joe's. Now, you 794
can go out of the parking lot, you can
make a right, you can go three miles
there and then turn and then another
five miles. You can go, you know, in a
big circle and you can end up at Trader
Joe's. It's not wrong. I'm not saying
you can get there that way. It's not the
wrong way to get there. But you can also
just go right across the street and get
to Trader Joe's. So neither way is
wrong. But if you take that really long
route
in today's day and age, 807
um
it's a risk. It's a risk, especially
like with, you know, I mean, if we're
going to be talking about, you know,
with like drugs and stuff, it's it's a
it's a it's a bigger risk with with
somebody dying before they can get to
Trader Joe's.
>> Well, here's here's the thing. It's not
in the book, that's all.
>> You know, right? It's not in the book.
And
>> and I'm in that awkward position for 30 820
years now
>> of having conversations with people
where they say, "Wait, you're not having
me write about step one?" And I'll say,
"No, it's not in the book." And then
there's so much in the fellowship that
disagrees with me going right out of the
book that it's like, okay, you've lost
some
uh credential here. So, I'm going to go
you're not doing it as thoroughly as my
this guy down the street. On top of
that, 833
I think the assignment confuses things
later because going back to the
unmanageability thing, they're talking
about the fact that if you if you're an
alcoholic,
you're like a car. When you're a
drinking, if you're a practicing
alcoholic, you're like a car that loses
its brakes. Sometimes we'll get to you.
We'll and and I can I we've done this so
many times. I know this is when the
hands start going up. And what about the
spirit? What about my shortcomings? What 846
about, you know, my character defects?
What about the stupid, insane decisions
I make in regular life? We'll get to all
of that. It's not that that it's not
that none of that is
uh important,
but we're going to keep it in its proper
context. This isn't about that. Step one
is not about you needing God. Step one
is about you
reaching a point where you are open to
their open to needing a god which is
step two. 859
>> Yeah,
>> character defects are not alcoholism.
>> Dave, we'll get you
>> later. According to the big book,
>> we'll get to that. We'll get to that.
And it seems like a lot of one of the
things that people do who've gone
through the study often is they around
this time they get frustrated.
>> Yes.
>> This is where people get real
frustrated.
>> Right. 872
>> And so I want to
and and and I I I understand a lot of
the reasons why because they've been
expressed to me many many times.
And it's where there's a rush to get to
the solution. It's a it's a confusion
between the
growing spiritually and the spiritual
malady
um being part of you know there's and
and
there's just a lot of confusion here.
This is this is there's a lot of 885
untangling. And so I just want to
simplify it yet again. I just want to
summarize and say we're not saying
anything about what works or doesn't
work for you.
The big book itself doesn't even declare
that. The big book itself says, "Hey,
we're just telling you what we did."
And all we are saying is this.
As a result of an exhaustive study we
had gone through repeatedly and reached
consensus after consensus,
it is our conclusion that the big book 898
step one is as simple as everything up
to we agnostics
attempting to help the reader relate
to the fact that he or she is screwed.
and cannot stop drinking with their own
intelligence. They can't stop drinking
with therapy. I mean, he you know what
Roland went to the greatest psychiatrist
on the planet who was like, "You're
screwed. Sorry."
>> I mean, if therapy were the answer,
everybody would just be doing therapy.
And this isn't saying anything bad about 911
therapy.
It's just saying in the big book, step
one is therapy is not the answer. If
you're a real alcoholic, that's not the
answer.
Your intelligence is not the answer.
Triggers, avoiding triggers, that's not
that's whack-a-ole. The everything is if
you're an alcoholic, the sun is a
trigger, the moon's a trigger. Good
luck.
>> Yeah.
>> And there's no writing there's no 924
writing assignment
>> and
of whatsoever for step one. And step one
in all of its
content
by and large is covered in everything
all the Roman numerals everything up to
we agnostics.
>> Yes. Yeah. Well, like I said, there's
there's one test that they suggest and
that's to go to the nearest barroom, try
to drink a few and then stop abruptly,
try it more than once. But in those 937
chapters that you're talking about,
there's a doctor's opinion. And even the
doctor's opinion, he he gives examples
of like different types of alcoholics,
but in in reality, he's he's actually
describing different types of people who
are alcoholics. You know, he talks about
like even like the they refer to as the
manic depressive type. I mean, if you're
manic depressive and an alcoholic, I
mean, manic depressive is not part of
alcoholism, but you could have you could
be manic depressive and have alcoholism. 950
>> But then he also says like, but then
there's the types that are entirely
normal in every respect except in the
effect that alcohol has on them,
>> right?
>> And then they give example after example
after example. There's going to be, you
know, Bill's story. There's going to be
the story about Roland Hazard. Uh the
story about the retired businessman. Um
the story about Jim, the guy that
thought he could put whiskey in his
milk. The story about Fred who ended up 963
in the taxi cab in New York. But I would
encourage all the listeners like take
our word for it or actually better yet
go look for yourself. Read each of those
stories and each one of those examples
they will briefly describe the person.
And they briefly described, you know,
Roland Hazard as as, you know, an
American businessman. He was successful.
He had money, you know, he uh he made
made good decisions and everything, you
know, besides alcohol.
>> Yeah. 976
>> And Jim [clears throat] was a regular
guy, you know, he was he was a
businessman. Had his own business at one
point.
>> Um they they even say he's normal except
for a nervous disposition. And uh and
then there's, you know, the retired
businessman, very successful. Um,
there's Fred, who is actually described
as an extraordinary guy. Um, everybody
likes Fred, but he's alcoholic.
>> I didn't really like Fred.
>> Yeah, 989
Fred was a little cocky. I thought
>> I didn't I never I never cared for him,
but they
>> It's the one line in the big book that's
not true because I didn't like Fred.
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's a moat. Everybody liked
it. Um,
what it says when it says, "What about
the real alcoholic?" What page is that
on when it says, "What about the real
alcoholic?"
>> We're going to describe to you the real
alcoholic. No exceptions. Here's the 1002
real deal. What does it say about his
thinking?
>> Oh, that he's uh often perfectly
sensible and well balanced concerning
everything except for liquor.
>> Perfectly sensible and well. So the big
book actually says the alcoholic, the
real alcoholic
is often perfectly sensible and well
balanced concerning everything except
liquor.
But in that respect, he's incredibly
dishonest and selfish. If I went into a 1015
meeting and said, I'm an alcoholic, so
I'm perfectly, you know, my case is that
I'm often perfectly sensible and well
balanced concerning everything else.
Everybody would be like, dude, you are
high. You are smoking pot again.
>> What is wrong with you? Are you high
again?
But that's what the big book says.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. It's very simple, very
uncomplicated. So, 1028
so
for the listener,
the homework if you're interested in
doing it and I've gotten some awesome
responses from the last couple episodes
about this
and people are engaged and excited about
this and it's awesome. So, here's and
people have asked me specifically for
homework. So, what homework would we
would you suggest, Dave,
or did you just do that? re
reading. Well, like I said, there's, you 1041
know, I've said it before, there's one
test that they suggest. I I wouldn't
want to really encourage anybody to go
try and drink, but that's the test that
they suggest, but they, like I said, so
the doctor's opinion, reading the
doctor's opinion, Bill's story, uh, and
then chapter two and chapter three,
those have the stories about Roland and
Jim and Fred and the retired
businessman,
>> the Jaywalker. Um, and then the
Jaywalker, all of that, the real 1054
alcoholic. After all of that, you'll get
to chapter 4, which starts off by saying
in the preceding chapters, everything
you've read up to this point, in these
chapters, we hope we've made clear the
distinction between the alcoholic and
the non-alcoholic, the difference
between the alcoholic and the regular
person. If when you honestly want to,
you find you cannot quit entirely or if
when drinking you have little control
over how much you drink, then you're
probably alcoholic. [snorts] Like I 1067
said, we're not going to deem anybody
alcoholic. This is something personal
and it's subjective. If you've read
everything up to this point, if you've
read the doctor's opinion, chapter 1,
chapter 2, chapter 3, you have read
their description of the alcoholic.
>> That's also
>> Having read that,
>> no, that's I'm sorry. Go ahead.
Having read that, uh, do you feel like
is can you answer to yourself like I
I've not been able to stop drinking or 1080
when I drink I have little control over
how much I drink,
>> right?
>> If if I can if if that makes sense to
me, then they're saying probably
alcoholics.
>> They don't say, you know, if you have no
attention span, if you're totally
selfish, if you're
>> off your rocker, if you throw your mom
down the stairs, if you drive backwards
on the highway, you're probably
alcoholic, 1093
>> right? None of that.
>> None of it. And those things might be
true
>> and they are true for some people.
>> Right.
>> But
>> you can't blame that on alcoholism.
>> You can't blame that on alcoholism. As
Mike used to say,
>> poor old alcohol.
>> Don't blame poor old alcoholism.
And what's also really important in what
you just said is they're done describing 1106
the alcoholic now,
>> right?
When you get to we agnostics, they're
done. I invite you to read it carefully.
They're done describing the alcoholic.
They say sentences here and there that
seem to contradict what we're talking
about right now, which I promise we will
get to. And there is clarity with those.
I know there's a bunch of, you know,
there's some sentences throughout the
Big Book that seem to contradict what
we're saying. But I invite you at this 1119
point to read everything up to we
agnostics. Read the context of the full
flight from reality. Read the whole
sentence. Read it carefully. Read that
sentence very very carefully. Read the
context of the jaywalker. Read the
context of the main problem centers in
his mind. Read everything they say about
a real alcoholic. Read it carefully.
Read what Dr. Silkworth says.
read it and
and yeah and we'll go from here. We'll
we'll next time we will start 1132
uh at we agnostics. We'll talk about we
agnostics and we'll talk about what the
big book says about step two which might
be like a five minute podcast but we
will we
>> I can talk about that for a while. I can
talk about step two for a while. I can.
But according to the according to the
book, it's like
>> according to the book, step step two,
>> literally
>> we could finish it right now.
>> That's true. That's true. 1145
>> But we'll get we'll get to that. But
because there's a lot there, I invite
you to read it. Email if you want and
stay tuned. It's exciting. And then if
anybody
wants to know, I've mentioned it on here
before, but this podcast I always give a
shout out to podcast greater than
yourself
is going through the big book and they
inspired this actual what we're doing
here. So I thank them for that. Love
those guys. And 1158
you know, that's something to check out
as well. And we're going to go over I I
had the honor of doing step three on
that show and what I'm going to do on
here will be pretty close to identical
to that because that's
because I
>> because you're going to be reading from
the book. I'll be reading from the book
and I'll be interjecting the same you
know similar things that I always am
moved to do and but anyway so that's
there the podcast greater than yourself 1171
but I invite you to jump ahead or I
invite you to you know jump up to um we
read up to agnostics and uh
and
check it out
you know it's amazing and all these
things.
I mean again I also have to say this
initially
this took
I mean six months at least to go through
>> just all this stuff because of the
confusion because of the questions 1184
because of the seeming contradictions
seeming the because of the message
that's normal in the fellowship and it
took months and months so we are
squeezing a lot in a short period of
time
and we're we're aware of that and that's
why I'm inviting you if you're if you
want further clarification or you want
to talk or you whatever it is about it
just email sarcastic bigbook atgmail.
Um my coffee is gone Dave.
>> Mine is not mine's still pucking hot as 1197
a matter of fact.
>> Well, we'll wait. We'll wait.
>> [laughter]
>> I have mine in a thermal cup. So, I do
too. I do. Let me see if it's still
piping hot. It might not be piping. It
may be exaggerating. You know, I am an
alcoholic.
>> Yeah.
>> Hey Dave, you want to get into a
guzzling contest right now?
[laughter]
>> I'm sorry. You're choking out right now. 1210
I almost killed Dave just now.
You okay?
>> Yeah.
>> Do you want to Do you have a funnel?
>> A funnel?
>> Yeah. Hang on. [clears throat]
[laughter]
[cough]
>> I lit I literally almost killed Dave
just now.
Can you imagine you live through all
your attempts at sobriety, through being
tased, 1223
you know, through all the driving and
all the just you did this show that
was your life up until you got sober and
then
>> choked on a cup of coffee
>> and then you choked on a cup of coffee.
Can you imagine what would I all of a
sudden the the tone of this podcast
would change indefinitely I think to
maybe maybe God is not good. What
[laughter]
>> maybe have to rethink to reconsider my
reconsiderations. 1236
So shifting gears before we go to
something super important is our
modeling careers.
>> Yes,
>> super important. So you you are also in
the sober guys of summer calendar.
>> Sober guys. Yes. I'm I'm Mr. August.
Yes.
>> So what what's your what's your setup?
Because I I got the pumpkin thing going.
So what's yours?
>> Oh yeah. I heard about the pumpkin
thing. So mine is uh mine takes place at 1249
a muscle car show. Um, and there's also
like So I'm on the hood of a uh of a
1974 Nova
with a uh
>> Wow.
>> with a a weight bar. Um, and they got
about a couple hundred pounds on there
and greased up of course and you know
pumping iron. So it's it's an action
shot.
>> Do you mind? Would it be weird if I You
can't You can't see from waist down,
right? You can't see me from the waist 1262
down right now. [laughter]
That sounds very
[laughter]
>> It's gonna I'll just say this. It's
going to be a great calendar. [snorts]
Um
>> Yeah. Oh, I'm sure it does. Yeah,
[laughter]
>> obviously. I mean, they chose us for a
reason.
>> Um thank you so much for being here,
Dave. I want to give a shout out to
Happy Joyce and Three on the East and 1275
West Coast. Want to give a shout out to
podcast greater than yourself. So super
gratitudes podcast even that's not in
the book podcast by my [snorts] good
friend Laura and uh
and I want to uh give a special shout
out to Chelsea. Maybe Dave will want to
do that too. Do you want to say anything
to Chelsea, Dave?
>> Yes. My dogs are barking.
>> Okay, we'll come back to you.
>> Absolutely.