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Recovery Radio [music and singing]
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KMP300
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[music]
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>> coffee constantly, right guys?
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Up top. Just kidding. All right.
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So excited. We're going to continue with
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the what does the big book say? Workshop
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information.
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And I'm going to
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uh
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introduce a very close friend of mine
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and his name is Dave. Hi Dave.
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>> I'm great. I was telling them uh last
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time we did this, we did record this
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segment already.
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>> And and I don't I don't know if we'll be
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as funny this time as we were.
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[laughter]
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>> So we I I thought we got really funny
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about the male modeling at the end.
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>> We'll try.
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>> Okay. We are going to talk about step
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one.
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Um
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according to the big book, what does the 27
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big book say about step one?
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Not what everybody else says about step
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one, not what my sponsor tells me about
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step one, not what I've heard repeatedly
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and still hear all the time about step
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one, but what the big book actually says
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about step one. Because a lot of people
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believe that they go right out of the
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big book, they do the steps right out of
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the big book. And Dave and I have
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learned in part from doing this workshop
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and this study that
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um that's true. A lot of people actually 40
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believe that and then when we start
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going through it, it's vastly different
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from what they've been doing. And so,
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so there's a lot of uh popular
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commonplace things we could say about
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step one,
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but
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and and and with the time constraints we
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have, we're not going to be able to get
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into every nook and cranny the way we
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normally have and sometimes do.
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But I want to
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paint the general picture today 53
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and so people have it and then invite
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people to do some homework to write in
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>> and
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you know and we will discuss anything
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that feels appropriate to discuss in the
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next show or in an upcoming show or
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we'll answer the email whatever there's
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questions commentary things like that we
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can make it part of that discussion. So
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um but I just want to put the the I want
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to paint with broad strokes today
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because there's so much here. This is
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where the problem and the solution are 66
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intersected within the fellowship
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to
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really create a a message that
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is confusing frankly and
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um we'll get to that more and more but
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for the purposes of this podcast
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I want to say a few things about step
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one and and then have Dave say some
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And we'll talk about these things. So
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what I wanted to say about it is
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the big book says the first step in
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recovery is that we need to admit to our
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innermost selves that we're alcoholic. 79
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That's the first step in recovery. How
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to make somebody do that?
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You can't make somebody do that. It is
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very subjective and it's very personal.
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Also the authors say their hope right
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away they say their hope is that no
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further authentication will be
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necessary. Their hope is that a reader
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will just read this, read the alcoholic
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problem described and say, "I drink like
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that and I am willing to
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uh work this take this program of
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spiritual action." 92
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And
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so, so the clear-cut directions
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don't begin with step one in my
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understanding.
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it. They begin in the chapter how it
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works. How it works does not start with
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step one.
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How it works starts with step three.
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They describe they, you know, they give
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a overview of everything. They list the
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steps, all the steps,
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and we'll get to that more, but there's
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no part that says in italics, this is 105
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step one. This is what we did.
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>> Right?
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Because you can't make somebody reach
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bottom.
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You can't make somebody reach a place
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where they are convinced that their life
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has become unmanageable. The other thing
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I wanted to say is so what they do
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instead is they tell story after story.
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They give illustration after
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illustration, chapter after chapter
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saying do you get it? Do you understand?
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Do you drink this way? Do you understand 118
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that you're going to drink no matter
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what eventually if you're an alcoholic?
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No matter what with your own willpower.
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If you're relying on knowing how bad it
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is, if you're relying on knowing the
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consequences, if you are relying on
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playing the tape through, if you're
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relying on your own mental power and
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know you're a real alcoholic,
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eventually you will drink.
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Do you get it? And then once you start
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drinking, you're off to the races.
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And they say this over and over and over 131
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again
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with the hope that we
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say, "Yeah, that's me. I get it." And
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the other thing I wanted to say is about
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there's a lot I want to say. One thing I
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want to say is about
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unmanageability.
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our life becomes very manageable.
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Every single life you could make an
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argument is not manageable
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in with the you know in the absence of
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God. You can make that argument for
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sure. We're going to get to all that. 144
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You're maybe an idiot while sober. Maybe
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you make stupid
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decisions while sober. Maybe you make
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really selfish, destructive, crazy
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decisions while sober. My understanding,
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having dissected the book over and over
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again through the study, is that that's
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not what they're addressing in step one.
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And this is what they are addressing.
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And it is the car dealership analogy
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that I like so much. If you go to a car
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dealer and say, "I want this car." And
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the car dealer says, "Hey, 157
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it's the color that you love. It has the
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gas mileage that you love. It's the
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price you love. Everything about it,
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it's perfect. There's one thing about
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it, Dave.
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>> What's that?"
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>> It loses its brakes sometimes.
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>> When?
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>> Well, it varies.
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Sometimes it's at the same time all the
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time, but it's really It varies. And you
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don't know how long you're going to lose
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the brakes for. Maybe I'll just say this 170
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car maybe 5% of the time.
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>> Is that a drivable car?
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>> Can I live with that?
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>> I mean,
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>> I guess that's up to me. It's personal.
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>> Yes.
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>> Subjective.
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>> Yes. And that's exactly
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what they're talking about in my belief
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and understanding when they say our
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lives have become unmanageable. They're
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saying an alcoholic lifestyle. If you're
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living an alcoholic lifestyle, you're 183
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practicing drinking, you are like a car
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that loses its brakes sometimes,
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>> right? [snorts] And when your life
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becomes unmanageable slash your car
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becomes undrivable is subjective and
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it's personal.
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And I know people I sponsored a guy who
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had over 20 DUIs. 27 DUIs.
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>> Wow.
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>> And it didn't seem possible.
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But somehow he racked it up for years
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and the laws were different. And bottom
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line, he you you you could look at him 196
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and keep saying to yourself, this is the
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bottom. This now now he gets it. Now
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he's going to stop. Now he has admitted
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to his innermost self that he's
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alcoholic, but you can't it's an
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internal thing. The point I'm trying to
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make is his car had no brakes.
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>> Yeah.
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>> His car lost brakes like basically
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completely and he was like, "No, this is
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still a drivable car."
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And then there's people that I know who
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one thing happens, they lose their 209
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brakes for
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one moment and they're like, "This is
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undrivable.
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I need to stop drinking. My life has
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become unmanageable." So, and a reason I
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wanted to talk about that right out of
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the gate is because I think it's so it
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makes such a difference in the
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experience you're having
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when you are going through life sober
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for years saying you're unmanageable,
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your life's unmanageable, your life's
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unmanageable 222
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when
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>> right
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>> I just think that that it it affects a
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lot of the rest of what we're going to
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do here in a really in in a stifling ne
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it's not a it's not an uplifting
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It's not as it's not a freeing mindset
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mentality to me. It wasn't to me I
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should say.
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>> Yeah. Thank you.
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>> That was my experience. Yes.
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>> So your thoughts on what I've said,
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Dave? 235
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Uh what comes to mind immediately is I'm
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going to throw another analogy out
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there.
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And keep in mind that I
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my first introduction to Alcoholics
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Anonymous I was 20 years old and uh and
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I didn't actually get sober until I was
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40. And so there was like a 20 year span
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there
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of going in and out of alcoholics
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anonymous and uh all over the country
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and different
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philosophies and approaches to the steps 248
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and different
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methods.
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Um,
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and it was all kind of, you know, very
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confusing like you were talking about
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that,
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um,
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I was under the impression
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that,
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um, all of pretty much all of my, I
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guess, uh, quirky behavior,
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my insecurities, and, uh,
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my, I guess, lack of social skills and 261
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my control issues, all of that was
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alcoholism.
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and uh
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I stayed sick for a very long time. So
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So the analogy I want to use is
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if if I were to make a cake and I got a
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I got a a box of cake mix and on the box
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on the back of the box it has it has you
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know [snorts] 12 ingredients
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and it calls for you know flour and
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sugar and eggs and milk and so on and so
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on.
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If at some point I get to where it says 274
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eggs and I don't have eggs. So I'm
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digging through the fridge and I'm like,
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I got chicken liver. I don't have any
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eggs, but I do have chicken liver and
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they both come from a chicken. So I'm
279
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I'm sure this is going to be okay. It It
280
00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:17,680
doesn't matter if I follow the
281
00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:19,600
directions.
282
00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:20,720
Doesn't matter if I follow them
283
00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:22,959
precisely up to that point and precisely
284
00:12:22,959 --> 00:12:25,200
after that point, I'm not going to end
285
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:26,880
up with a cake.
286
00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,480
>> I love I love that analogy. 287
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,800
In looking back at my experience and my
288
00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:36,480
history, like I said, over this 20 years
289
00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,560
span and these different approaches and
290
00:12:38,560 --> 00:12:40,079
the different mentalities and different
291
00:12:40,079 --> 00:12:41,680
understandings,
292
00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:44,000
um, I feel like I I can say right now
293
00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,639
that I right off the bat, I used eggs. I
294
00:12:46,639 --> 00:12:49,920
mean, I used chicken lover. And that I
295
00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,240
think
296
00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,873
honestly in my opinion the step one
297
00:12:54,873 --> 00:12:57,279
[snorts] often times you know kind of
298
00:12:57,279 --> 00:12:59,040
what we're discussing here it's this
299
00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,440
word of mouth 300
00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,839
message that we've gotten
301
00:13:03,839 --> 00:13:06,959
is the chicken lover
302
00:13:06,959 --> 00:13:10,639
and clearing that up replacing that not
303
00:13:10,639 --> 00:13:12,639
using that and using actual eggs. The
304
00:13:12,639 --> 00:13:15,680
eggs are in the big book
305
00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:20,079
is very simple in the big book. There's
306
00:13:20,079 --> 00:13:23,519
there's honestly there's one test that
307
00:13:23,519 --> 00:13:27,279
the Big Book offers for the reader. If
308
00:13:27,279 --> 00:13:29,440
you want to determine whether or not
309
00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:31,920
you're an alcoholic, you could try this.
310
00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,800
You could go to the nearest barroom and
311
00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,160
try to drink and stop abruptly and try
312
00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,079
more than once. Try to drink and then 313
00:13:40,079 --> 00:13:43,360
stop and try it more than once. There's
314
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,360
nothing whatsoever about, you know, what
315
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,920
are your you have any kind of quirky
316
00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,240
behaviors? Are you like extra insecure?
317
00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,120
Have you always felt like not a part of?
318
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:54,880
There's like none of that is in there.
319
00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:56,320
That's the test if you want to find out
320
00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:58,399
if you're an alcoholic.
321
00:13:58,399 --> 00:13:59,839
But like I said, my understanding of
322
00:13:59,839 --> 00:14:02,320
that was so skewed for for so many
323
00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,519
years. And this just this mentality of
324
00:14:05,519 --> 00:14:07,360
that every quirky behavior, every
325
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,399
insecurity or weird thought that I have 326
00:14:10,399 --> 00:14:13,760
is is because I'm an alcoholic. It it it
327
00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,079
kept me
328
00:14:16,079 --> 00:14:20,639
two things stick out in my mind vividly.
329
00:14:20,639 --> 00:14:23,199
It made me resentful at the rest of the
330
00:14:23,199 --> 00:14:25,519
world. If you're not an alcoholic, I
331
00:14:25,519 --> 00:14:28,240
really didn't think that you had I
332
00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:30,320
didn't really look at other people and
333
00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,320
honestly, as sick as it sounds, I just
334
00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,079
didn't really feel like they had
335
00:14:34,079 --> 00:14:36,160
feelings. And I just didn't consider
336
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:39,920
them to be really, you know, human with
337
00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,560
with feelings and and that they just had
338
00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,120
things made and then life was handed to 339
00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:46,720
them on a silver platter. They didn't
340
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:48,240
have the kind of struggles that I have.
341
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:49,920
They didn't have this insecurities that
342
00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,639
I have and the fears and control issues
343
00:14:52,639 --> 00:14:55,360
and you know, however we've blown that
344
00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,279
out [clears throat] of proportion. So,
345
00:14:57,279 --> 00:15:00,240
it made me resentful at the rest of
346
00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:01,440
humanity [clears throat and cough]
347
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,519
>> and it also
348
00:15:03,519 --> 00:15:06,800
enabled me to stay a victim,
349
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:07,120
>> right?
350
00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,040
>> I don't have it. I don't have it as good
351
00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,279
as you do. You have it better than me. 352
00:15:11,279 --> 00:15:13,440
You have it easier than I do.
353
00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,000
>> I'm an alcoholic and something that
354
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:17,440
alcoholism is something that I'm
355
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:19,519
powerless over and I will always be
356
00:15:19,519 --> 00:15:20,959
struggling with this for the rest of my
357
00:15:20,959 --> 00:15:24,160
life. I'm mad at you
358
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,760
and I'm a victim. Right.
359
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,800
>> And I never found
360
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:34,079
I never found any long-term sobriety uh
361
00:15:34,079 --> 00:15:37,199
under under those conditions. Um and I
362
00:15:37,199 --> 00:15:39,839
never found freedom [snorts]
363
00:15:39,839 --> 00:15:42,639
uh or happiness or real connections to
364
00:15:42,639 --> 00:15:45,199
other people. And like I said, that's 365
00:15:45,199 --> 00:15:47,680
just to put it simply, that's that was
366
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:49,519
me using chicken liver right off the
367
00:15:49,519 --> 00:15:51,440
bat. And it just it just didn't matter
368
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,079
what I did thereafter. it was I never
369
00:15:54,079 --> 00:15:56,880
ended up with, you know, a beautiful
370
00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:58,160
cake.
371
00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:02,240
I love that analogy and it's also really
372
00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,839
sad to me because I I I believe that
373
00:16:05,839 --> 00:16:08,399
that's a very common experience
374
00:16:08,399 --> 00:16:11,199
and
375
00:16:11,199 --> 00:16:15,399
I've spent a lot of time
376
00:16:16,079 --> 00:16:20,920
thinking about this and and and
377
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,079
thinking about all the ways that has 378
00:16:24,079 --> 00:16:25,839
come to this and the and the things in
379
00:16:25,839 --> 00:16:27,040
the big book that are taken out of
380
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,279
context. text
381
00:16:29,279 --> 00:16:32,160
and all the other literature that goes
382
00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,880
against the big book that is
383
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:37,199
supports the
384
00:16:37,199 --> 00:16:39,839
confusion almost, you know,
385
00:16:39,839 --> 00:16:40,880
>> right?
386
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,199
>> Um,
387
00:16:43,199 --> 00:16:45,120
but yeah, the big book is super simple
388
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:46,880
in its description of the real
389
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,399
alcoholic. It's super simple. It has
390
00:16:50,399 --> 00:16:51,920
nothing to do with our character 391
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:56,720
defects. We become alcoholic.
392
00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:58,560
were not born alcoholic in the beginning
393
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,920
of the book would become alcoholic.
394
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,799
Dr. Silkworth describes the alcoholic as
395
00:17:04,799 --> 00:17:09,559
often entirely normal in every respect.
396
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:15,360
Entirely normal in every respect.
397
00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:17,280
And
398
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,079
um it talks about the main problem of
399
00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:21,760
the alcoholic centering in his mind. I
400
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,559
talked about that last time.
401
00:17:24,559 --> 00:17:26,640
the bedments.
402
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,200
They're describing human problems.
403
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:30,320
>> Okay. 404
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,320
>> Um
405
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:38,720
there's so much more. There's um
406
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:40,160
and little things, a lot of little
407
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,039
things, too, that end up meaning a lot
408
00:17:43,039 --> 00:17:45,360
later on, like self-nowledge. Here's
409
00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:48,400
one. The big book bends over backwards
410
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,520
to say self-nowledge is not the answer.
411
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,280
It's not the answer. It's not
412
00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:57,280
So meaning
413
00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,440
you can understand
414
00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,000
your alcoholism completely. You can
415
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,160
write about it.
416
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,559
You can analyze it. You can study it. 417
00:18:06,559 --> 00:18:11,400
you can and it's not
418
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:13,919
I know that that process really helps
419
00:18:13,919 --> 00:18:16,720
some people but it also I think kills
420
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:18,640
some people because some people are not
421
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,160
in a position to dick around for a month
422
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:25,840
writing about step one. If I were told
423
00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,160
to do that I would be dead.
424
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:28,960
>> Yeah.
425
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:30,960
>> There's no doubt in my mind I would be
426
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:32,480
dead.
427
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,160
I didn't it was urgent. I didn't have
428
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,960
time to
429
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:38,720
I knew I was an alcoholic. I admitted to 430
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,280
my innermost self I was an alcoholic.
431
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,840
There's no doubt.
432
00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:46,559
>> And what always
433
00:18:46,559 --> 00:18:48,559
it's just something to think about is
434
00:18:48,559 --> 00:18:50,480
the big book just bends over backwards
435
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,880
to say self-nowledge doesn't help and
436
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,520
but writing about your alcoholism is
437
00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:57,520
self-nowledge. No.
438
00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,520
>> Yes.
439
00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,280
>> Yes. Yeah. I was as you were saying that
440
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:04,799
I was just thinking about how many times
441
00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:06,799
I've heard
442
00:19:06,799 --> 00:19:08,559
people say that you know they got a 443
00:19:08,559 --> 00:19:10,799
sponsor and their sponsor's direction is
444
00:19:10,799 --> 00:19:14,320
that they have to stay sober for 30 days
445
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,640
before they start doing any work. 30
446
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:18,240
days before I give you step one
447
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:19,120
instructions,
448
00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:21,840
>> right? And um
449
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:27,760
that is it's so heartbreaking and so
450
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,600
confusing because
451
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,919
if you're an alcoholic, I mean, if if
452
00:19:33,919 --> 00:19:35,440
you understood step one, you would
453
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,120
understand that you can't ask an
454
00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:41,200
alcoholic to stay sober for 30 days. I
455
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:42,960
mean, they may be able to, they may not, 456
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,120
you know, but
457
00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:46,960
>> you're asking, you're confusing them
458
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:48,559
right off the bat, saying, "I want you
459
00:19:48,559 --> 00:19:50,240
to use your self-nowledge and your and
460
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,799
your willpower to stay sober, and if you
461
00:19:52,799 --> 00:19:54,799
really want it, you'll stay sober, and
462
00:19:54,799 --> 00:19:55,520
then we'll
463
00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:55,760
>> right
464
00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:57,760
>> and then we'll start learning about step
465
00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:59,360
one." And and then, you know, after 30
466
00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:01,679
days, okay, so step one is essentially
467
00:20:01,679 --> 00:20:04,960
that you don't have the power to refrain
468
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,120
from drinking, you know, on a permanent 469
00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:07,840
basis,
470
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:09,039
>> right?
471
00:20:09,039 --> 00:20:10,640
And I think part of the reason I think
472
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,360
it's well-intentioned how we got here. I
473
00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:16,000
really do. But
474
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,640
I think that part of the problem is
475
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,679
there are people who can abstain for a
476
00:20:21,679 --> 00:20:23,360
month easily.
477
00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:23,760
>> Yeah.
478
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,720
>> And they so you know and then and then
479
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:28,480
on top of that they were told to abstain
480
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,240
for a month and write about step one and
481
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:33,600
you know and then they were told you 482
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:35,039
know somebody else told them you know it
483
00:20:35,039 --> 00:20:37,120
goes on and on. But there are people who
484
00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:40,240
are uncap incapable of doing that. And
485
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:40,640
>> yeah,
486
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,280
>> this is two of them right here.
487
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:43,600
>> Yeah.
488
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,200
>> And I and I and I've [clears throat]
489
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,919
watched a lot of people get wiped out
490
00:20:47,919 --> 00:20:49,520
during this time. I mean, more than
491
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:51,440
anything else, I've I mean, I can't tell
492
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,799
the beginning of the
493
00:20:54,799 --> 00:20:56,400
I can't tell you how many times I've
494
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,960
I've talked to somebody who's like 495
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:00,960
dying. They want to drink. They're the
496
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,520
the obsession's crazy. And and the
497
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,280
conversation is, you know, where are you
498
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,440
at with the steps? Cuz you the relief
499
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:09,280
doesn't come in step one. There's no
500
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,520
relief that comes in step one or step
501
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:13,120
two. You're still flying over
502
00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:16,480
unprotected skies. And
503
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,400
>> so many times I've said like, do you
504
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,000
know your where you at? There's steps
505
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,559
and and well, I'm not allow I'm not done
506
00:21:22,559 --> 00:21:24,320
with step one,
507
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:24,640
>> right? 508
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,080
>> Well, do you have you admitted to your
509
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:27,760
inner self you're alcoholic? Oh, yeah,
510
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:29,280
definitely.
511
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,960
Well, my sponsor won't let me.
512
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,159
move on. And that
513
00:21:36,159 --> 00:21:39,840
it it works for people. It also I I I've
514
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,720
seen it. It kills people, too. And and
515
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,919
more more to the point is
516
00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:50,240
if you disagree with all this and if
517
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:51,840
everything we're saying has helped you
518
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,960
and is helping you, that's beautiful.
519
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,600
All we're saying is it's not in the big
520
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,080
book to tell somebody to wait. It's not 521
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:01,840
in the big book to write about their
522
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,320
alcoholism. That's not going right out
523
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:05,919
of the big book. That's not in the big
524
00:22:05,919 --> 00:22:08,400
book. So, at least I mean that's the
525
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,240
purpose of the study is what does the
526
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,240
big book say? The big book says there's
527
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,559
no writing in step one. The big book
528
00:22:14,559 --> 00:22:16,080
says
529
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,480
don't ask somebody to stay sober for 30
530
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:22,159
days and test their resolve and you know
531
00:22:22,159 --> 00:22:24,320
doesn't it doesn't that's not the that's
532
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,320
not the direction.
533
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,159
>> Yeah. 534
00:22:28,159 --> 00:22:31,760
Yeah. I think it's worth noting that
535
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,640
the original you know roughly 100
536
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:36,960
members a had accumulated roughly 100
537
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,159
members when they decided to write down
538
00:22:40,159 --> 00:22:44,000
write the big book and uh those original
539
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,280
100 members had actually uh worked a
540
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:48,799
six-step
541
00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:52,880
program and the first step was complete
542
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:54,880
deflation.
543
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,200
Complete deflation. So, kind of along
544
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:58,080
the lines of what you were saying
545
00:22:58,080 --> 00:22:59,760
earlier, like how do you help a person
546
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:01,280
achieve that? You know, is there is 547
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:02,799
there some sort of a writing assignment
548
00:23:02,799 --> 00:23:05,440
that you can you can give to them where
549
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:06,720
they're, you know, they'll they'll work
550
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,080
this assignment and at the end they'll
551
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:09,679
be like, "Oh, I'm completely deflated.
552
00:23:09,679 --> 00:23:11,360
You know, I'm out of ideas. I'm willing
553
00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:14,880
to do anything." You know, so it's food
554
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,200
for thought. Is there a way to do that?
555
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:17,440
>> Right.
556
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,406
>> According to the big bug, no. Um but
557
00:23:20,406 --> 00:23:23,039
[clears throat] also I think it's worth
558
00:23:23,039 --> 00:23:25,440
noting along those lines and you know in
559
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,080
in the chapter working with others we 560
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,640
meet a newcomer
561
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,080
you know we have a talk with him blah
562
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:33,520
blah blah there's you know a little bit
563
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:35,360
of instruction there um but you know if
564
00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:36,720
he doesn't if he's not interested in
565
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,440
your solution you know wish him well he
566
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,200
may be more willing after he gets hurt
567
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,440
some more you know um he may be more
568
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:44,960
receptive when he's depressed I think it
569
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,039
says it you know three or four times in
570
00:23:47,039 --> 00:23:49,200
there that like ah he might need to hurt
571
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:50,640
hurt some more, you know, wait until the
572
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:51,520
end of a spring. 573
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:51,919
>> Yeah.
574
00:23:51,919 --> 00:23:55,840
>> Like because that's usually when a I can
575
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,080
tell you I I I try to speak for myself,
576
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,919
but I can tell you I I had achieved
577
00:24:01,919 --> 00:24:04,159
complete deflation. I don't know how
578
00:24:04,159 --> 00:24:07,039
many times in my little 20 years stretch
579
00:24:07,039 --> 00:24:09,760
there. Um but after every time, like I
580
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:11,760
was willing. I you give me a solution,
581
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,559
you know? I I'll I'll do what you I I'll
582
00:24:14,559 --> 00:24:16,080
do whatever you're suggesting. Like I'm
583
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:17,679
willing.
584
00:24:17,679 --> 00:24:20,080
But um as I start to feel a little bit
585
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:21,760
better, as time passes and I start to 586
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:23,279
feel a little bit better, my willingness
587
00:24:23,279 --> 00:24:25,760
kind of fades and I'm not really willing
588
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:26,159
to,
589
00:24:26,159 --> 00:24:27,360
>> right?
590
00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:31,120
>> You know, I'm okay where I'm at. So
591
00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:34,799
>> yeah, I mean, yeah, it does say it
592
00:24:34,799 --> 00:24:36,880
multiple times. The more hopeless he
593
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:38,640
feels, the better.
594
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:39,120
>> Yeah,
595
00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:40,960
>> I remember. So, when somebody comes to
596
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,360
me completely deflated,
597
00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:44,880
I mean, I kind of, you know, like I
598
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,559
said, you know, I I sit down, I have a 599
00:24:46,559 --> 00:24:48,000
talk with a person, kind of get an idea
600
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,279
of where they're at. But if they're
601
00:24:49,279 --> 00:24:51,039
completely deflated, they need a
602
00:24:51,039 --> 00:24:54,880
solution. Now, I'm not going to Here's
603
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,347
the way I look at it. Honestly, if if
604
00:24:57,347 --> 00:24:58,000
[snorts]
605
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,039
I take my direction from God,
606
00:25:01,039 --> 00:25:02,480
somebody comes to me, they're in
607
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,799
desperate need of a solution, I'm going
608
00:25:04,799 --> 00:25:06,960
to ask God, God, do you want me to help
609
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,440
this person to establish a relationship
610
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:13,440
with you? Can you imagine God saying, "I
611
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,440
don't know how willing he is, Dave. Make 612
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,679
sure he waits, you know, maybe make him
613
00:25:17,679 --> 00:25:20,480
wait 30 days before you before you, you
614
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,159
know, help him connect to me."
615
00:25:24,159 --> 00:25:25,360
There's people that would there's
616
00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:26,640
there's people that would argue that
617
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,880
that they that is their direction and
618
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,200
it's worked for them, you know.
619
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,120
>> True. Yeah.
620
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:34,080
>> I mean, but
621
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,400
>> I I agree with you. Like so I I agree
622
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,240
with what you said and a lot of people
623
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,760
do kind of thrive on that kind of uh
624
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,480
direction. But I've also I also feel 625
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,039
like a lot of people get hurt.
626
00:25:47,039 --> 00:25:49,520
I mean, it'd be one if it'd be it'd be
627
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,039
one thing if more people were getting
628
00:25:51,039 --> 00:25:53,679
sober than ever. Then this would be a
629
00:25:53,679 --> 00:25:55,919
different conversation. If if if
630
00:25:55,919 --> 00:25:58,159
Alcoholics Anonymous were mushrooming
631
00:25:58,159 --> 00:26:02,720
and success were flying high,
632
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:04,799
>> it'd be a different conversation. But
633
00:26:04,799 --> 00:26:07,440
but it's most people don't stay sober.
634
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:11,039
And I I personally have come to see
635
00:26:11,039 --> 00:26:14,320
and believe for myself that this is some
636
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,360
of why
637
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:19,279
I concur. 638
00:26:19,279 --> 00:26:22,559
>> And and if and again, if if you disagree
639
00:26:22,559 --> 00:26:24,320
with all this, that's that's we're not
640
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,960
saying like this is right. We're not
641
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,960
saying this is the only way, whatever,
642
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:30,559
but this is what's in the the big book
643
00:26:30,559 --> 00:26:34,480
does not say right about step one.
644
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,039
So at least at least
645
00:26:37,039 --> 00:26:39,200
at least
646
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,720
know that you know it's it makes me
647
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:44,640
think of Christian's brilliant analogy
648
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,200
about the yoga studio. You such a these
649
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,600
great analogies where it's like there's
650
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,679
a yoga studio and everybody's doing yoga 651
00:26:51,679 --> 00:26:53,279
and these people come in and they start
652
00:26:53,279 --> 00:26:57,360
doing you know crossfit you know.
653
00:26:57,360 --> 00:26:59,440
>> Yeah. And then people are like, I'm
654
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,799
butchering it, Christian. Sorry,
655
00:27:02,799 --> 00:27:05,039
but you know, and they're like, oh, this
656
00:27:05,039 --> 00:27:07,440
is yoga. We're doing yoga.
657
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,600
And then people start following that and
658
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,159
saying, "Oh, this is yoga."
659
00:27:12,159 --> 00:27:14,880
And it's not yoga. Like, it's okay to do
660
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:16,960
that, but don't call it yoga. Don't say
661
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:18,240
that you're going right out of the big
662
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:19,840
book of Alcoholics Anonymous if you're
663
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:20,960
having people write down their 664
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:22,559
definitions
665
00:27:22,559 --> 00:27:24,559
because none of that is in the big book.
666
00:27:24,559 --> 00:27:27,520
It's not in the big book.
667
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,960
And it kills people like me.
668
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,200
And I have known far more people who
669
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,559
have been harmed by that and my
670
00:27:36,559 --> 00:27:41,120
um experience with them than helped.
671
00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:43,440
There are people who are helped by it.
672
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,159
But again, those are by and large people
673
00:27:46,159 --> 00:27:48,720
who the big book even talks about that
674
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,120
too. How long you can quit on a
675
00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:54,480
non-spiritual basis depends on you. It's
676
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,240
very idiosyncratic. It's different for 677
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:57,840
everybody.
678
00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:58,480
>> Yeah.
679
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,000
>> And then add to that that not everybody
680
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,480
in AA is an alcoholic. There's hard
681
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,080
drinkers.
682
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,399
And so you have all these different
683
00:28:06,399 --> 00:28:09,279
people passing on this message with
684
00:28:09,279 --> 00:28:11,760
really good intentions that is
685
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,919
accidentally causing a lot of harm.
686
00:28:15,919 --> 00:28:17,919
>> Yeah.
687
00:28:17,919 --> 00:28:21,440
Yeah. That's weird because I on one hand
688
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,279
I I I I kind of appreciate
689
00:28:25,279 --> 00:28:27,919
how much I struggled over those years. I 690
00:28:27,919 --> 00:28:33,840
feel like um my experience now is
691
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,720
just so much sweeter
692
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,200
because of how much I struggled for so
693
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:40,799
many years.
694
00:28:40,799 --> 00:28:42,640
>> So we'll throw another analogy out
695
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:43,840
there.
696
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:44,640
I uh
697
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,320
>> Wait, wait, Dave, do you remember Do you
698
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:47,760
remember when your nickname was analogy
699
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,520
Dave?
700
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:50,399
>> Yeah. Yeah.
701
00:28:50,399 --> 00:28:51,919
>> And then we tried to make you
702
00:28:51,919 --> 00:28:54,159
>> We tried to make you Latino Latino Dave. 703
00:28:54,159 --> 00:28:54,960
>> Latin Dave.
704
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:55,200
>> Yeah.
705
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:56,320
>> Yeah. Latin Dave.
706
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:56,720
>> Yeah.
707
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,000
>> But that didn't take cuz you're not
708
00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,360
Latin.
709
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,360
>> Right.
710
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,000
>> Yeah. People were like, "Oh, I saw Dave
711
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:05,440
the other day." And you'd be like, "Oh,
712
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,679
Latin Dave." No. You know Dave, the guy
713
00:29:07,679 --> 00:29:08,799
that drives the Mustang.
714
00:29:08,799 --> 00:29:09,039
>> Yeah.
715
00:29:09,039 --> 00:29:11,039
>> Yeah. Latin Dave. No, no, no, no. Not 716
00:29:11,039 --> 00:29:13,919
Latin. No. No. Analogy Dave. Analogy
717
00:29:13,919 --> 00:29:15,420
Dave.
718
00:29:15,420 --> 00:29:17,440
[laughter]
719
00:29:19,279 --> 00:29:21,360
>> Yeah. Anyways, so yeah, please an
720
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,120
analogy.
721
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,159
So my analogy is that
722
00:29:26,159 --> 00:29:27,919
like I live in Southern California right
723
00:29:27,919 --> 00:29:30,960
now and
724
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,840
I feel like
725
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:35,760
I
726
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,039
appreciate being warm more than somebody
727
00:29:39,039 --> 00:29:41,120
who maybe grew up in Southern California
728
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,760
cuz I grew up in in Nebraska where it 729
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,559
gets like bitter bitter cold, you know?
730
00:29:46,559 --> 00:29:48,000
So, my analogy is like, you know, if
731
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,480
you're outside and it's it's 70° outside
732
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,799
and and you walk into a house and it's
733
00:29:52,799 --> 00:29:54,559
70°, you're like, h, you know, feels
734
00:29:54,559 --> 00:29:57,360
nice. Like, whatever. But if you've ever
735
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,039
been in like 10 below zero weather and
736
00:30:01,039 --> 00:30:03,679
you walk into a house that's 70°, it's
737
00:30:03,679 --> 00:30:07,120
like, oh my god, it feels so good in
738
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,399
here. is it was worth the pain of being
739
00:30:10,399 --> 00:30:14,799
that cold to be feeling warm is just so
740
00:30:14,799 --> 00:30:18,159
wonderful, you know, it was worth it.
741
00:30:18,159 --> 00:30:21,360
>> And so in that sense, I I kind of look 742
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,200
back at my history and like I struggled
743
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,760
a lot. I did and I was confused and I
744
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,760
was unhappy a lot. And the message, the
745
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,159
experience that I'm having now is I
746
00:30:32,159 --> 00:30:35,279
believe just that much sweeter because
747
00:30:35,279 --> 00:30:39,440
of that. I I I I feel like, you know, in
748
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,440
order to like really truly appreciate
749
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:42,720
something, you have to experience the
750
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,000
opposite. If you to like really truly
751
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,240
experience or uh to to truly appreciate
752
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:51,840
a spiritual way of life, you have to
753
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,399
have gone through hell. And and and I
754
00:30:54,399 --> 00:30:56,000
feel like I went through a lot of hell 755
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,640
and my the spiritual life is is just
756
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,399
that much sweeter now because of that.
757
00:31:00,399 --> 00:31:04,159
So, with that said, and to a degree I
758
00:31:04,159 --> 00:31:05,679
can kind of appreciate all the struggle
759
00:31:05,679 --> 00:31:08,799
and all the confusion that I had,
760
00:31:08,799 --> 00:31:10,320
but
761
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,240
um
762
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,440
I just I I I firmly believe that I was
763
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,919
just lucky enough to stay alive.
764
00:31:17,919 --> 00:31:18,720
>> Yeah. You're lucky
765
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:19,440
>> that long.
766
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:19,919
>> Yeah.
767
00:31:19,919 --> 00:31:20,399
>> Yeah. 768
00:31:20,399 --> 00:31:20,880
>> I mean,
769
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:22,491
>> I could have very easily died
770
00:31:22,491 --> 00:31:24,159
[clears throat] and not had the
771
00:31:24,159 --> 00:31:26,159
experience that I'm having now.
772
00:31:26,159 --> 00:31:28,320
>> That's right. So, like you said, you
773
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:29,679
know, I don't want to poo poo anybody
774
00:31:29,679 --> 00:31:31,360
else's approach or or anything like
775
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,360
that. And I'm not saying anything's
776
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:34,799
anybody's doing anything wrong. You
777
00:31:34,799 --> 00:31:36,080
know, we've talked about that before. I
778
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:37,760
know you've used the Trader Joe's
779
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,000
analogy. Like, you know, you can go to
780
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,120
Trader Joe's. So, for you and I, we're 781
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:44,960
to kind of set the scene for for the
782
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,600
listeners. We're usually uh in this
783
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,039
parking lot at this meeting hall that
784
00:31:49,039 --> 00:31:51,279
we're at and and there's a Trader Joe's
785
00:31:51,279 --> 00:31:53,120
like right across the street and and
786
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:54,720
we'll be talking to a newcomer. will be
787
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:56,399
like, "Hey, you know, I just want you to
788
00:31:56,399 --> 00:31:58,159
get to Trader Joe's. You know, just get
789
00:31:58,159 --> 00:31:59,519
to Trader Joe's. I don't care how you
790
00:31:59,519 --> 00:32:01,200
get there. You want to ride part of the
791
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:02,640
way with me? Great. You want to ride
792
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:03,919
with somebody else? Great. Like, I don't
793
00:32:03,919 --> 00:32:06,720
care. Just get to Trader Joe's. Now, you 794
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,720
can go out of the parking lot, you can
795
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,720
make a right, you can go three miles
796
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:12,480
there and then turn and then another
797
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,000
five miles. You can go, you know, in a
798
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,799
big circle and you can end up at Trader
799
00:32:16,799 --> 00:32:19,760
Joe's. It's not wrong. I'm not saying
800
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:21,760
you can get there that way. It's not the
801
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,159
wrong way to get there. But you can also
802
00:32:24,159 --> 00:32:26,159
just go right across the street and get
803
00:32:26,159 --> 00:32:28,880
to Trader Joe's. So neither way is
804
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,279
wrong. But if you take that really long
805
00:32:31,279 --> 00:32:33,840
route
806
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,240
in today's day and age, 807
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,080
um
808
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,480
it's a risk. It's a risk, especially
809
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:41,760
like with, you know, I mean, if we're
810
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:43,840
going to be talking about, you know,
811
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,320
with like drugs and stuff, it's it's a
812
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,240
it's a it's a bigger risk with with
813
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,559
somebody dying before they can get to
814
00:32:50,559 --> 00:32:51,360
Trader Joe's.
815
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,039
>> Well, here's here's the thing. It's not
816
00:32:53,039 --> 00:32:54,960
in the book, that's all.
817
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:56,559
>> You know, right? It's not in the book.
818
00:32:56,559 --> 00:32:57,120
And
819
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,919
>> and I'm in that awkward position for 30 820
00:32:59,919 --> 00:33:01,120
years now
821
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,279
>> of having conversations with people
822
00:33:03,279 --> 00:33:05,760
where they say, "Wait, you're not having
823
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,000
me write about step one?" And I'll say,
824
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,080
"No, it's not in the book." And then
825
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,840
there's so much in the fellowship that
826
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,320
disagrees with me going right out of the
827
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,440
book that it's like, okay, you've lost
828
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,919
some
829
00:33:21,919 --> 00:33:25,440
uh credential here. So, I'm going to go
830
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,200
you're not doing it as thoroughly as my
831
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,039
this guy down the street. On top of
832
00:33:29,039 --> 00:33:30,640
that, 833
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,840
I think the assignment confuses things
834
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,399
later because going back to the
835
00:33:36,399 --> 00:33:38,799
unmanageability thing, they're talking
836
00:33:38,799 --> 00:33:40,240
about the fact that if you if you're an
837
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,799
alcoholic,
838
00:33:42,799 --> 00:33:44,799
you're like a car. When you're a
839
00:33:44,799 --> 00:33:46,000
drinking, if you're a practicing
840
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,159
alcoholic, you're like a car that loses
841
00:33:48,159 --> 00:33:51,279
its brakes. Sometimes we'll get to you.
842
00:33:51,279 --> 00:33:53,440
We'll and and I can I we've done this so
843
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,120
many times. I know this is when the
844
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,200
hands start going up. And what about the
845
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,760
spirit? What about my shortcomings? What 846
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:01,600
about, you know, my character defects?
847
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,600
What about the stupid, insane decisions
848
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,080
I make in regular life? We'll get to all
849
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,800
of that. It's not that that it's not
850
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,399
that none of that is
851
00:34:12,399 --> 00:34:14,560
uh important,
852
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,960
but we're going to keep it in its proper
853
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,520
context. This isn't about that. Step one
854
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,720
is not about you needing God. Step one
855
00:34:22,720 --> 00:34:26,240
is about you
856
00:34:26,240 --> 00:34:28,879
reaching a point where you are open to
857
00:34:28,879 --> 00:34:32,720
their open to needing a god which is
858
00:34:32,720 --> 00:34:33,280
step two. 859
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,119
>> Yeah,
860
00:34:35,119 --> 00:34:38,480
>> character defects are not alcoholism.
861
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,040
>> Dave, we'll get you
862
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,399
>> later. According to the big book,
863
00:34:44,399 --> 00:34:46,000
>> we'll get to that. We'll get to that.
864
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,760
And it seems like a lot of one of the
865
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,520
things that people do who've gone
866
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:51,679
through the study often is they around
867
00:34:51,679 --> 00:34:53,839
this time they get frustrated.
868
00:34:53,839 --> 00:34:54,639
>> Yes.
869
00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:55,760
>> This is where people get real
870
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:57,359
frustrated.
871
00:34:57,359 --> 00:34:58,560
>> Right. 872
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,119
>> And so I want to
873
00:35:01,119 --> 00:35:04,160
and and and I I I understand a lot of
874
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:05,440
the reasons why because they've been
875
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,800
expressed to me many many times.
876
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,640
And it's where there's a rush to get to
877
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,040
the solution. It's a it's a confusion
878
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,200
between the
879
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:18,800
growing spiritually and the spiritual
880
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:20,560
malady
881
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,200
um being part of you know there's and
882
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:24,960
and
883
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:26,400
there's just a lot of confusion here.
884
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:27,680
This is this is there's a lot of 885
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,520
untangling. And so I just want to
886
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,280
simplify it yet again. I just want to
887
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,400
summarize and say we're not saying
888
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:39,119
anything about what works or doesn't
889
00:35:39,119 --> 00:35:42,079
work for you.
890
00:35:42,079 --> 00:35:45,839
The big book itself doesn't even declare
891
00:35:45,839 --> 00:35:49,200
that. The big book itself says, "Hey,
892
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,920
we're just telling you what we did."
893
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,599
And all we are saying is this.
894
00:35:55,599 --> 00:35:59,520
As a result of an exhaustive study we
895
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,920
had gone through repeatedly and reached
896
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,839
consensus after consensus,
897
00:36:05,839 --> 00:36:10,800
it is our conclusion that the big book 898
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:15,520
step one is as simple as everything up
899
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,560
to we agnostics
900
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,320
attempting to help the reader relate
901
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,160
to the fact that he or she is screwed.
902
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,320
and cannot stop drinking with their own
903
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,720
intelligence. They can't stop drinking
904
00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:33,119
with therapy. I mean, he you know what
905
00:36:33,119 --> 00:36:36,320
Roland went to the greatest psychiatrist
906
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,000
on the planet who was like, "You're
907
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,160
screwed. Sorry."
908
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:41,760
>> I mean, if therapy were the answer,
909
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:43,599
everybody would just be doing therapy.
910
00:36:43,599 --> 00:36:45,359
And this isn't saying anything bad about 911
00:36:45,359 --> 00:36:47,119
therapy.
912
00:36:47,119 --> 00:36:49,040
It's just saying in the big book, step
913
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,760
one is therapy is not the answer. If
914
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:53,680
you're a real alcoholic, that's not the
915
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:55,599
answer.
916
00:36:55,599 --> 00:36:58,400
Your intelligence is not the answer.
917
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,119
Triggers, avoiding triggers, that's not
918
00:37:01,119 --> 00:37:03,119
that's whack-a-ole. The everything is if
919
00:37:03,119 --> 00:37:05,359
you're an alcoholic, the sun is a
920
00:37:05,359 --> 00:37:06,640
trigger, the moon's a trigger. Good
921
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:08,320
luck.
922
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,320
>> Yeah.
923
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,079
>> And there's no writing there's no 924
00:37:12,079 --> 00:37:13,599
writing assignment
925
00:37:13,599 --> 00:37:15,440
>> and
926
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,760
of whatsoever for step one. And step one
927
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,240
in all of its
928
00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:24,079
content
929
00:37:24,079 --> 00:37:27,839
by and large is covered in everything
930
00:37:27,839 --> 00:37:30,880
all the Roman numerals everything up to
931
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,359
we agnostics.
932
00:37:33,359 --> 00:37:35,920
>> Yes. Yeah. Well, like I said, there's
933
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,800
there's one test that they suggest and
934
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:40,560
that's to go to the nearest barroom, try
935
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,720
to drink a few and then stop abruptly,
936
00:37:42,720 --> 00:37:45,200
try it more than once. But in those 937
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,359
chapters that you're talking about,
938
00:37:47,359 --> 00:37:48,960
there's a doctor's opinion. And even the
939
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,839
doctor's opinion, he he gives examples
940
00:37:51,839 --> 00:37:55,359
of like different types of alcoholics,
941
00:37:55,359 --> 00:37:57,200
but in in reality, he's he's actually
942
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:58,640
describing different types of people who
943
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:00,720
are alcoholics. You know, he talks about
944
00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:04,640
like even like the they refer to as the
945
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:06,720
manic depressive type. I mean, if you're
946
00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:08,320
manic depressive and an alcoholic, I
947
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,000
mean, manic depressive is not part of
948
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,480
alcoholism, but you could have you could
949
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,960
be manic depressive and have alcoholism. 950
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:16,560
>> But then he also says like, but then
951
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,160
there's the types that are entirely
952
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,480
normal in every respect except in the
953
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,400
effect that alcohol has on them,
954
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:22,800
>> right?
955
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,599
>> And then they give example after example
956
00:38:25,599 --> 00:38:27,119
after example. There's going to be, you
957
00:38:27,119 --> 00:38:29,280
know, Bill's story. There's going to be
958
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,680
the story about Roland Hazard. Uh the
959
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,119
story about the retired businessman. Um
960
00:38:35,119 --> 00:38:36,720
the story about Jim, the guy that
961
00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:37,839
thought he could put whiskey in his
962
00:38:37,839 --> 00:38:40,400
milk. The story about Fred who ended up 963
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,920
in the taxi cab in New York. But I would
964
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,640
encourage all the listeners like take
965
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,040
our word for it or actually better yet
966
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,160
go look for yourself. Read each of those
967
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:54,320
stories and each one of those examples
968
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,400
they will briefly describe the person.
969
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,400
And they briefly described, you know,
970
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,400
Roland Hazard as as, you know, an
971
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,000
American businessman. He was successful.
972
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,880
He had money, you know, he uh he made
973
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,440
made good decisions and everything, you
974
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,280
know, besides alcohol.
975
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:10,000
>> Yeah. 976
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:11,760
>> And Jim [clears throat] was a regular
977
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:13,359
guy, you know, he was he was a
978
00:39:13,359 --> 00:39:14,960
businessman. Had his own business at one
979
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:15,920
point.
980
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,960
>> Um they they even say he's normal except
981
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,760
for a nervous disposition. And uh and
982
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:23,119
then there's, you know, the retired
983
00:39:23,119 --> 00:39:25,599
businessman, very successful. Um,
984
00:39:25,599 --> 00:39:28,160
there's Fred, who is actually described
985
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,200
as an extraordinary guy. Um, everybody
986
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,040
likes Fred, but he's alcoholic.
987
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,359
>> I didn't really like Fred.
988
00:39:35,359 --> 00:39:37,040
>> Yeah, 989
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:38,400
Fred was a little cocky. I thought
990
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,160
>> I didn't I never I never cared for him,
991
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:41,200
but they
992
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,079
>> It's the one line in the big book that's
993
00:39:44,079 --> 00:39:47,040
not true because I didn't like Fred.
994
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,320
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's a moat. Everybody liked
995
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,800
it. Um,
996
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,440
what it says when it says, "What about
997
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:56,960
the real alcoholic?" What page is that
998
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:58,560
on when it says, "What about the real
999
00:39:58,560 --> 00:39:59,520
alcoholic?"
1000
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,599
>> We're going to describe to you the real
1001
00:40:01,599 --> 00:40:04,079
alcoholic. No exceptions. Here's the 1002
00:40:04,079 --> 00:40:05,599
real deal. What does it say about his
1003
00:40:05,599 --> 00:40:08,599
thinking?
1004
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,359
>> Oh, that he's uh often perfectly
1005
00:40:11,359 --> 00:40:12,720
sensible and well balanced concerning
1006
00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:13,760
everything except for liquor.
1007
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,880
>> Perfectly sensible and well. So the big
1008
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,520
book actually says the alcoholic, the
1009
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,160
real alcoholic
1010
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,040
is often perfectly sensible and well
1011
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,079
balanced concerning everything except
1012
00:40:28,079 --> 00:40:29,680
liquor.
1013
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:31,440
But in that respect, he's incredibly
1014
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,000
dishonest and selfish. If I went into a 1015
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,240
meeting and said, I'm an alcoholic, so
1016
00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:39,119
I'm perfectly, you know, my case is that
1017
00:40:39,119 --> 00:40:41,359
I'm often perfectly sensible and well
1018
00:40:41,359 --> 00:40:43,040
balanced concerning everything else.
1019
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:44,480
Everybody would be like, dude, you are
1020
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:48,320
high. You are smoking pot again.
1021
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:49,760
>> What is wrong with you? Are you high
1022
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:51,680
again?
1023
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,240
But that's what the big book says.
1024
00:40:54,240 --> 00:40:56,720
>> Yeah.
1025
00:40:56,720 --> 00:40:57,040
>> Yeah.
1026
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:58,800
>> Yeah. It's very simple, very
1027
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,800
uncomplicated. So, 1028
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:04,800
so
1029
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:06,800
for the listener,
1030
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:08,640
the homework if you're interested in
1031
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:10,800
doing it and I've gotten some awesome
1032
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,280
responses from the last couple episodes
1033
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,200
about this
1034
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,440
and people are engaged and excited about
1035
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,440
this and it's awesome. So, here's and
1036
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:20,960
people have asked me specifically for
1037
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:23,520
homework. So, what homework would we
1038
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,560
would you suggest, Dave,
1039
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,280
or did you just do that? re
1040
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,359
reading. Well, like I said, there's, you 1041
00:41:31,359 --> 00:41:32,720
know, I've said it before, there's one
1042
00:41:32,720 --> 00:41:34,480
test that they suggest. I I wouldn't
1043
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,000
want to really encourage anybody to go
1044
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:37,920
try and drink, but that's the test that
1045
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,960
they suggest, but they, like I said, so
1046
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:42,319
the doctor's opinion, reading the
1047
00:41:42,319 --> 00:41:46,000
doctor's opinion, Bill's story, uh, and
1048
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:47,839
then chapter two and chapter three,
1049
00:41:47,839 --> 00:41:50,480
those have the stories about Roland and
1050
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:52,240
Jim and Fred and the retired
1051
00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:52,880
businessman,
1052
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,040
>> the Jaywalker. Um, and then the
1053
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:56,640
Jaywalker, all of that, the real 1054
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,359
alcoholic. After all of that, you'll get
1055
00:41:59,359 --> 00:42:03,920
to chapter 4, which starts off by saying
1056
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:05,599
in the preceding chapters, everything
1057
00:42:05,599 --> 00:42:07,760
you've read up to this point, in these
1058
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,319
chapters, we hope we've made clear the
1059
00:42:10,319 --> 00:42:12,079
distinction between the alcoholic and
1060
00:42:12,079 --> 00:42:14,000
the non-alcoholic, the difference
1061
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:15,680
between the alcoholic and the regular
1062
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,160
person. If when you honestly want to,
1063
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,040
you find you cannot quit entirely or if
1064
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:22,400
when drinking you have little control
1065
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,319
over how much you drink, then you're
1066
00:42:24,319 --> 00:42:25,920
probably alcoholic. [snorts] Like I 1067
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:27,280
said, we're not going to deem anybody
1068
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,440
alcoholic. This is something personal
1069
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,040
and it's subjective. If you've read
1070
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,040
everything up to this point, if you've
1071
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:34,880
read the doctor's opinion, chapter 1,
1072
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,280
chapter 2, chapter 3, you have read
1073
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,200
their description of the alcoholic.
1074
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:40,079
>> That's also
1075
00:42:40,079 --> 00:42:41,280
>> Having read that,
1076
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:43,920
>> no, that's I'm sorry. Go ahead.
1077
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,720
Having read that, uh, do you feel like
1078
00:42:46,720 --> 00:42:48,800
is can you answer to yourself like I
1079
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,440
I've not been able to stop drinking or 1080
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,440
when I drink I have little control over
1081
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:54,400
how much I drink,
1082
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:54,720
>> right?
1083
00:42:54,720 --> 00:42:57,599
>> If if I can if if that makes sense to
1084
00:42:57,599 --> 00:42:59,280
me, then they're saying probably
1085
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:00,240
alcoholics.
1086
00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:02,640
>> They don't say, you know, if you have no
1087
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,400
attention span, if you're totally
1088
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:06,000
selfish, if you're
1089
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,000
>> off your rocker, if you throw your mom
1090
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:09,680
down the stairs, if you drive backwards
1091
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:10,960
on the highway, you're probably
1092
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:12,480
alcoholic, 1093
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:13,520
>> right? None of that.
1094
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,240
>> None of it. And those things might be
1095
00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:17,280
true
1096
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,880
>> and they are true for some people.
1097
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:22,000
>> Right.
1098
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:22,400
>> But
1099
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,160
>> you can't blame that on alcoholism.
1100
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:26,880
>> You can't blame that on alcoholism. As
1101
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:27,680
Mike used to say,
1102
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:28,560
>> poor old alcohol.
1103
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,760
>> Don't blame poor old alcoholism.
1104
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,280
And what's also really important in what
1105
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,319
you just said is they're done describing 1106
00:43:38,319 --> 00:43:40,319
the alcoholic now,
1107
00:43:40,319 --> 00:43:42,160
>> right?
1108
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,160
When you get to we agnostics, they're
1109
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:49,119
done. I invite you to read it carefully.
1110
00:43:49,119 --> 00:43:53,520
They're done describing the alcoholic.
1111
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,839
They say sentences here and there that
1112
00:43:55,839 --> 00:43:58,079
seem to contradict what we're talking
1113
00:43:58,079 --> 00:44:00,560
about right now, which I promise we will
1114
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,599
get to. And there is clarity with those.
1115
00:44:03,599 --> 00:44:05,520
I know there's a bunch of, you know,
1116
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:07,359
there's some sentences throughout the
1117
00:44:07,359 --> 00:44:08,960
Big Book that seem to contradict what
1118
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,280
we're saying. But I invite you at this 1119
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,760
point to read everything up to we
1120
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:17,760
agnostics. Read the context of the full
1121
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:19,920
flight from reality. Read the whole
1122
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,480
sentence. Read it carefully. Read that
1123
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,839
sentence very very carefully. Read the
1124
00:44:25,839 --> 00:44:28,000
context of the jaywalker. Read the
1125
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:29,760
context of the main problem centers in
1126
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:34,560
his mind. Read everything they say about
1127
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:36,800
a real alcoholic. Read it carefully.
1128
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,839
Read what Dr. Silkworth says.
1129
00:44:39,839 --> 00:44:43,200
read it and
1130
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,240
and yeah and we'll go from here. We'll
1131
00:44:46,240 --> 00:44:50,000
we'll next time we will start 1132
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,560
uh at we agnostics. We'll talk about we
1133
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:54,079
agnostics and we'll talk about what the
1134
00:44:54,079 --> 00:44:56,240
big book says about step two which might
1135
00:44:56,240 --> 00:45:00,000
be like a five minute podcast but we
1136
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:01,599
will we
1137
00:45:01,599 --> 00:45:03,040
>> I can talk about that for a while. I can
1138
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:04,800
talk about step two for a while. I can.
1139
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:06,480
But according to the according to the
1140
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,319
book, it's like
1141
00:45:08,319 --> 00:45:10,720
>> according to the book, step step two,
1142
00:45:10,720 --> 00:45:11,760
>> literally
1143
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:13,920
>> we could finish it right now.
1144
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:15,359
>> That's true. That's true. 1145
00:45:15,359 --> 00:45:16,720
>> But we'll get we'll get to that. But
1146
00:45:16,720 --> 00:45:19,040
because there's a lot there, I invite
1147
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:24,160
you to read it. Email if you want and
1148
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:25,920
stay tuned. It's exciting. And then if
1149
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:27,839
anybody
1150
00:45:27,839 --> 00:45:29,440
wants to know, I've mentioned it on here
1151
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,319
before, but this podcast I always give a
1152
00:45:32,319 --> 00:45:33,760
shout out to podcast greater than
1153
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,079
yourself
1154
00:45:36,079 --> 00:45:38,880
is going through the big book and they
1155
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:42,000
inspired this actual what we're doing
1156
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,880
here. So I thank them for that. Love
1157
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:48,319
those guys. And 1158
00:45:48,319 --> 00:45:50,160
you know, that's something to check out
1159
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,400
as well. And we're going to go over I I
1160
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:54,880
had the honor of doing step three on
1161
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,119
that show and what I'm going to do on
1162
00:45:57,119 --> 00:46:00,079
here will be pretty close to identical
1163
00:46:00,079 --> 00:46:02,880
to that because that's
1164
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:03,680
because I
1165
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:04,640
>> because you're going to be reading from
1166
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:06,560
the book. I'll be reading from the book
1167
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:09,119
and I'll be interjecting the same you
1168
00:46:09,119 --> 00:46:11,520
know similar things that I always am
1169
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,160
moved to do and but anyway so that's
1170
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,400
there the podcast greater than yourself 1171
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:20,240
but I invite you to jump ahead or I
1172
00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:24,400
invite you to you know jump up to um we
1173
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:28,720
read up to agnostics and uh
1174
00:46:28,720 --> 00:46:30,319
and
1175
00:46:30,319 --> 00:46:33,119
check it out
1176
00:46:33,119 --> 00:46:35,440
you know it's amazing and all these
1177
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,760
things.
1178
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:41,119
I mean again I also have to say this
1179
00:46:41,119 --> 00:46:42,800
initially
1180
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,119
this took
1181
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:50,000
I mean six months at least to go through
1182
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,160
>> just all this stuff because of the
1183
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,480
confusion because of the questions 1184
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:56,720
because of the seeming contradictions
1185
00:46:56,720 --> 00:46:59,280
seeming the because of the message
1186
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,760
that's normal in the fellowship and it
1187
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:03,839
took months and months so we are
1188
00:47:03,839 --> 00:47:06,400
squeezing a lot in a short period of
1189
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:08,079
time
1190
00:47:08,079 --> 00:47:10,720
and we're we're aware of that and that's
1191
00:47:10,720 --> 00:47:14,000
why I'm inviting you if you're if you
1192
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:15,920
want further clarification or you want
1193
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:18,720
to talk or you whatever it is about it
1194
00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:22,960
just email sarcastic bigbook atgmail.
1195
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:26,240
Um my coffee is gone Dave.
1196
00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:28,400
>> Mine is not mine's still pucking hot as 1197
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:29,200
a matter of fact.
1198
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:33,212
>> Well, we'll wait. We'll wait.
1199
00:47:33,212 --> 00:47:35,040
>> [laughter]
1200
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,200
>> I have mine in a thermal cup. So, I do
1201
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,440
too. I do. Let me see if it's still
1202
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:41,440
piping hot. It might not be piping. It
1203
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,520
may be exaggerating. You know, I am an
1204
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:44,240
alcoholic.
1205
00:47:44,240 --> 00:47:47,119
>> Yeah.
1206
00:47:47,119 --> 00:47:48,319
>> Hey Dave, you want to get into a
1207
00:47:48,319 --> 00:47:52,208
guzzling contest right now?
1208
00:47:52,208 --> 00:47:54,228
[laughter]
1209
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:59,760
>> I'm sorry. You're choking out right now. 1210
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,400
I almost killed Dave just now.
1211
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:04,319
You okay?
1212
00:48:04,319 --> 00:48:06,079
>> Yeah.
1213
00:48:06,079 --> 00:48:09,440
>> Do you want to Do you have a funnel?
1214
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:10,160
>> A funnel?
1215
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:11,858
>> Yeah. Hang on. [clears throat]
1216
00:48:11,858 --> 00:48:13,878
[laughter]
1217
00:48:14,478 --> 00:48:16,319
[cough]
1218
00:48:16,319 --> 00:48:18,079
>> I lit I literally almost killed Dave
1219
00:48:18,079 --> 00:48:20,160
just now.
1220
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:22,559
Can you imagine you live through all
1221
00:48:22,559 --> 00:48:24,800
your attempts at sobriety, through being
1222
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:26,640
tased, 1223
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:30,160
you know, through all the driving and
1224
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,960
all the just you did this show that
1225
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:35,359
was your life up until you got sober and
1226
00:48:35,359 --> 00:48:36,640
then
1227
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:37,760
>> choked on a cup of coffee
1228
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:38,880
>> and then you choked on a cup of coffee.
1229
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,680
Can you imagine what would I all of a
1230
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,240
sudden the the tone of this podcast
1231
00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:47,119
would change indefinitely I think to
1232
00:48:47,119 --> 00:48:50,503
maybe maybe God is not good. What
1233
00:48:50,503 --> 00:48:52,523
[laughter]
1234
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:56,880
>> maybe have to rethink to reconsider my
1235
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,880
reconsiderations. 1236
00:49:00,319 --> 00:49:02,240
So shifting gears before we go to
1237
00:49:02,240 --> 00:49:03,520
something super important is our
1238
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:05,760
modeling careers.
1239
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:07,680
>> Yes,
1240
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,400
>> super important. So you you are also in
1241
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,200
the sober guys of summer calendar.
1242
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:15,440
>> Sober guys. Yes. I'm I'm Mr. August.
1243
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:16,400
Yes.
1244
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,160
>> So what what's your what's your setup?
1245
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:19,680
Because I I got the pumpkin thing going.
1246
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,359
So what's yours?
1247
00:49:21,359 --> 00:49:22,800
>> Oh yeah. I heard about the pumpkin
1248
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:26,319
thing. So mine is uh mine takes place at 1249
00:49:26,319 --> 00:49:30,640
a muscle car show. Um, and there's also
1250
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:34,960
like So I'm on the hood of a uh of a
1251
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:37,680
1974 Nova
1252
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:38,800
with a uh
1253
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:39,920
>> Wow.
1254
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:43,520
>> with a a weight bar. Um, and they got
1255
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:45,599
about a couple hundred pounds on there
1256
00:49:45,599 --> 00:49:48,800
and greased up of course and you know
1257
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,040
pumping iron. So it's it's an action
1258
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:52,160
shot.
1259
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,640
>> Do you mind? Would it be weird if I You
1260
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:56,559
can't You can't see from waist down,
1261
00:49:56,559 --> 00:49:58,640
right? You can't see me from the waist 1262
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,299
down right now. [laughter]
1263
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:05,559
That sounds very
1264
00:50:06,484 --> 00:50:08,504
[laughter]
1265
00:50:09,359 --> 00:50:10,720
>> It's gonna I'll just say this. It's
1266
00:50:10,720 --> 00:50:12,559
going to be a great calendar. [snorts]
1267
00:50:12,559 --> 00:50:13,200
Um
1268
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:15,654
>> Yeah. Oh, I'm sure it does. Yeah,
1269
00:50:15,654 --> 00:50:16,960
[laughter]
1270
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:19,119
>> obviously. I mean, they chose us for a
1271
00:50:19,119 --> 00:50:20,400
reason.
1272
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:22,160
>> Um thank you so much for being here,
1273
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:24,000
Dave. I want to give a shout out to
1274
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:25,599
Happy Joyce and Three on the East and 1275
00:50:25,599 --> 00:50:28,079
West Coast. Want to give a shout out to
1276
00:50:28,079 --> 00:50:29,599
podcast greater than yourself. So super
1277
00:50:29,599 --> 00:50:31,920
gratitudes podcast even that's not in
1278
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,319
the book podcast by my [snorts] good
1279
00:50:34,319 --> 00:50:37,440
friend Laura and uh
1280
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:41,599
and I want to uh give a special shout
1281
00:50:41,599 --> 00:50:43,119
out to Chelsea. Maybe Dave will want to
1282
00:50:43,119 --> 00:50:44,240
do that too. Do you want to say anything
1283
00:50:44,240 --> 00:50:46,800
to Chelsea, Dave?
1284
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:48,880
>> Yes. My dogs are barking.
1285
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:50,000
>> Okay, we'll come back to you.
1286
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:53,000
>> Absolutely.