WEBVTT 00:00:01.610 --> 00:00:04.710 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan 00:00:04.710 --> 00:00:08.130 Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by 00:00:08.130 --> 00:00:13.949 night, all day. Gentlemen, great to see you. 00:00:13.949 --> 00:00:15.789 Yeah, put them on, slap them on. What's happening? 00:00:16.609 --> 00:00:19.910 Good to see you gentlemen again. Taking off. 00:00:19.910 --> 00:00:22.530 Good to see you as well. One more time. Yeah, 00:00:22.550 --> 00:00:27.050 one more time. So, what is the latest? Give me 00:00:27.050 --> 00:00:30.030 the latest. Where are we at? Why don't you take 00:00:30.030 --> 00:00:36.200 it, Brian? You are the most current on where 00:00:36.200 --> 00:00:38.159 we are, what's going on. Man, there has been 00:00:38.159 --> 00:00:41.259 a lot of stuff happen in the 15 months since 00:00:41.259 --> 00:00:43.479 we were here. I mean, like, stunning amount of 00:00:43.479 --> 00:00:45.960 stuff. So let's not waste any time. Tell them 00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:48.520 where we're at. All right. Well, the last time 00:00:48.520 --> 00:00:51.020 we came to visit with you, I believe, was on 00:00:51.020 --> 00:00:55.750 December the 27th of 2024. We were just on the 00:00:55.750 --> 00:00:59.270 front end of having organized 30 committed Texans 00:00:59.270 --> 00:01:02.030 whose own families had had experiences related 00:01:02.030 --> 00:01:05.269 to trauma, addiction, alcoholism, and the wounds 00:01:05.269 --> 00:01:09.230 of war, who, after hearing a plan that was developed 00:01:09.230 --> 00:01:11.329 for the state of Kentucky to bring Ibogaine to 00:01:11.329 --> 00:01:13.609 the American people as an FDA -approved medication 00:01:13.609 --> 00:01:16.090 and breakthrough treatment for addiction and 00:01:16.090 --> 00:01:20.930 trauma, committed themselves to using their time, 00:01:21.010 --> 00:01:24.120 their talent, and their network. to achieve what 00:01:24.120 --> 00:01:26.760 had never been done before, and that was to convince 00:01:26.760 --> 00:01:30.019 an individual state to undertake drug development 00:01:30.019 --> 00:01:33.079 to create a therapeutic medical breakthrough 00:01:33.079 --> 00:01:35.819 for public health crises within its borders that 00:01:35.819 --> 00:01:39.120 are representative of the national reality. After 00:01:39.120 --> 00:01:41.980 you released the interview with us on January 00:01:41.980 --> 00:01:47.420 2, 2025, we pursued a five -and -a -half -month 00:01:47.420 --> 00:01:53.439 blistering campaign to convince 188... blank 00:01:53.439 --> 00:01:58.180 slate Texas legislators to fund the single largest 00:01:58.180 --> 00:02:00.939 psychedelic research and medical development 00:02:00.939 --> 00:02:04.060 project in history, that being the $50 million 00:02:04.060 --> 00:02:07.810 Texas Ibogaine Initiative. We had the assistance 00:02:07.810 --> 00:02:11.310 of some in -state allies, one of which was Texans 00:02:11.310 --> 00:02:14.169 for Greater Mental Health, led by a dear friend 00:02:14.169 --> 00:02:16.569 and brother of mine, Logan Davidson, who was 00:02:16.569 --> 00:02:19.090 my right hand, going to meet with legislators 00:02:19.090 --> 00:02:22.750 continuously while I set up shop at a hotel here 00:02:22.750 --> 00:02:25.389 in Halston and lived here just about part -time, 00:02:25.530 --> 00:02:28.669 wearing the shoe leather off, sweating, and making 00:02:28.669 --> 00:02:31.030 sure that everybody who needed to be introduced, 00:02:31.430 --> 00:02:33.990 educated, and motivated to get behind this would 00:02:33.990 --> 00:02:37.490 do so. At the end of this five and a half months, 00:02:37.689 --> 00:02:44.870 we secured the votes of yes of 181 out of 188 00:02:44.870 --> 00:02:47.289 legislators between the Texas House of Representatives 00:02:47.289 --> 00:02:51.310 and State Senate. There was one individual who 00:02:51.310 --> 00:02:54.330 we had to persuade at the 11th hour to get behind 00:02:54.330 --> 00:03:00.150 this project. On May the 14th, 2025, just 36 00:03:00.150 --> 00:03:02.610 hours before the Texas budget was finalized, 00:03:02.889 --> 00:03:05.969 This bill that would create the first unified 00:03:05.969 --> 00:03:08.629 FDA drug development trial with Ibogaine in U 00:03:08.629 --> 00:03:12.409 .S. history was not funded. I woke up that morning, 00:03:12.490 --> 00:03:16.330 and I believe very much in keeping your prayers 00:03:16.330 --> 00:03:18.969 in the closet, as Jesus taught, and not getting 00:03:18.969 --> 00:03:21.490 out there parading about it. But on that morning, 00:03:21.550 --> 00:03:24.830 I got a call, and it was, hey, we're getting 00:03:24.830 --> 00:03:27.449 to the 11th hour. We don't have money to secure 00:03:27.449 --> 00:03:30.469 this. It may not make it. We've done everything 00:03:30.469 --> 00:03:33.509 that we can. And I just, I literally got down 00:03:33.509 --> 00:03:36.689 on my hands and knees and said, God, please let 00:03:36.689 --> 00:03:40.129 this happen. And if it cannot happen, help me 00:03:40.129 --> 00:03:43.870 understand why. Three hours later, I got a telephone 00:03:43.870 --> 00:03:46.569 call asking if I could go and meet with the Texas 00:03:46.569 --> 00:03:48.870 House Speaker and Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick. 00:03:49.789 --> 00:03:52.830 I went at 4 .30 in the afternoon on May the 14th 00:03:52.830 --> 00:03:55.110 and spent an hour with these two gentlemen going 00:03:55.110 --> 00:03:57.669 back and forth about what this project was, why 00:03:57.669 --> 00:04:00.550 it was so existentially necessary for Texas and 00:04:00.550 --> 00:04:04.330 the country. And on Friday morning, May the 16th 00:04:04.330 --> 00:04:06.810 at 10 a .m., we got a text message from Lieutenant 00:04:06.810 --> 00:04:10.050 Governor Patrick confirming that he would approve 00:04:10.050 --> 00:04:12.629 and fully fund the Texas Sign -Begin Initiative. 00:04:13.449 --> 00:04:17.160 As we walk in here today, literally, just 10 00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:21.040 minutes before we walked into your studio, I 00:04:21.040 --> 00:04:26.279 can confirm that the great state of Texas is 00:04:26.279 --> 00:04:29.839 going to fully fund the Texas Ibogaine Initiative, 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:33.079 originally intended to be a public -private partnership, 00:04:33.300 --> 00:04:37.959 but now has decided on its own to commit. a full 00:04:37.959 --> 00:04:42.399 $100 million to launch the development of Ibogaine 00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:44.860 all the way through the FDA's drug development 00:04:44.860 --> 00:04:48.199 process for the benefit of the American people. 00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:52.000 To do so on its own, without any drug development 00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:56.600 partner, and to do it for the good of humanity. 00:04:57.220 --> 00:04:59.459 That's phenomenal. So what did you have to say 00:04:59.459 --> 00:05:02.089 to Dan Patrick? convinced of this. And kudos 00:05:02.089 --> 00:05:06.189 to him for doing this. Well, I had some very 00:05:06.189 --> 00:05:08.730 wonderful advocates who preceded my meeting. 00:05:08.970 --> 00:05:12.769 Was he skeptical? Oh, he was completely disengaged 00:05:12.769 --> 00:05:15.329 from the process, highly skeptical, as we learned 00:05:15.329 --> 00:05:18.829 through intermediaries. But we had two wonderful 00:05:18.829 --> 00:05:21.290 brothers on mission who happened to be twins, 00:05:21.670 --> 00:05:25.680 Marcus and Morgan Luttrell. I know Marcus very 00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:28.259 well. Marcus and Morgan Luttrell reached out 00:05:28.259 --> 00:05:30.459 to the lieutenant governor. They spoke to him 00:05:30.459 --> 00:05:33.540 very movingly and personally about their own 00:05:33.540 --> 00:05:35.939 experiences with Ibogaine, what it had done not 00:05:35.939 --> 00:05:39.000 just to save their lives, but what it was doing 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:41.740 to save the lives of warfighters who had come 00:05:41.740 --> 00:05:45.360 to the end of being able to live. And as they 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:48.100 explained to him what it did for them and what 00:05:48.100 --> 00:05:50.220 it has done for their brothers and sisters -at 00:05:50.220 --> 00:05:53.040 -arms who've returned to war, to broken government 00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:58.110 systems that can do nothing to cure what ails 00:05:58.110 --> 00:06:00.990 them at their core, he was persuaded to have 00:06:00.990 --> 00:06:03.689 an open -minded conversation. And through that 00:06:03.689 --> 00:06:06.329 conversation on May the 14th, we essentially 00:06:06.329 --> 00:06:10.579 went through what Science suggests all the powers 00:06:10.579 --> 00:06:13.379 of the most sophisticated molecule on the planet 00:06:13.379 --> 00:06:16.079 to resolve physiological substance dependence 00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:19.060 and thereby create psychology within the human 00:06:19.060 --> 00:06:21.680 being whereby they believe they have ownership 00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:24.100 of themselves and their future and that that 00:06:24.100 --> 00:06:26.319 future will be one defined by choice rather than 00:06:26.319 --> 00:06:29.519 compulsion. And the most powerful aspect of the 00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:31.680 Ibogaine argument, not just for the lieutenant 00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:34.279 governor and house speaker, but for most of these 00:06:34.279 --> 00:06:37.949 legislators who voted yes, is... The experience 00:06:37.949 --> 00:06:42.810 endorsed by many that Ibogaine confirms without 00:06:42.810 --> 00:06:46.589 question the reality of our individual human 00:06:46.589 --> 00:06:50.189 divinity. And that is the greatest truth conveyed 00:06:50.189 --> 00:06:53.949 by this fabulous plant. Well put. And I don't 00:06:53.949 --> 00:06:55.589 think it's just Ibogaine that confirms that. 00:06:55.649 --> 00:06:57.810 I think you could say the same about many other 00:06:57.810 --> 00:07:02.110 psychedelic drugs that are unjustly maligned 00:07:02.110 --> 00:07:04.810 and treated as if they're an escape from reality. 00:07:06.040 --> 00:07:08.620 But in the interest of this being a standalone 00:07:08.620 --> 00:07:11.339 podcast for people who don't know what Ibogaine 00:07:11.339 --> 00:07:13.860 is and don't understand the efficacy of it and 00:07:13.860 --> 00:07:17.560 how unbelievably effective it is, especially 00:07:17.560 --> 00:07:20.060 treating addiction, could you please just go 00:07:20.060 --> 00:07:24.970 over that? Yes, sir. So Ibogaine is an alkaloid 00:07:24.970 --> 00:07:28.449 that is derived from the Iboga shrub. The Iboga 00:07:28.449 --> 00:07:32.810 shrub originates in the central Congo basin. 00:07:33.069 --> 00:07:36.350 Its native country is modern -day Gabon. It is 00:07:36.350 --> 00:07:38.449 the mother country of the Iboga shrub, which 00:07:38.449 --> 00:07:41.769 has been used for centuries in the spiritual 00:07:41.769 --> 00:07:45.610 and cultural traditions of the Buwiti, a group 00:07:45.610 --> 00:07:49.889 of spiritualists who include the Pygmies as well 00:07:49.889 --> 00:07:53.899 as the Bantu tribes that live there. Gabon. In 00:07:53.899 --> 00:07:57.399 the early 60s, it was discovered that Ibogaine 00:07:57.399 --> 00:08:01.100 and Iboga had a significant interruption effect 00:08:01.100 --> 00:08:04.019 on opioid addiction. There was an individual 00:08:04.019 --> 00:08:06.939 who had been addicted to heroin for a number 00:08:06.939 --> 00:08:10.920 of years. They took Ibogaine, and not only did 00:08:10.920 --> 00:08:12.959 they not experience any withdrawal when they 00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:15.519 stopped taking heroin, they stopped having any 00:08:15.519 --> 00:08:19.160 desire to use any drug whatsoever. This touched 00:08:19.160 --> 00:08:24.490 off 60 years of open -label field studies that 00:08:24.490 --> 00:08:28.569 are mountains high and decades wide that firmly 00:08:28.569 --> 00:08:32.970 establish that Ibogaine has a unique and singular. 00:08:33.559 --> 00:08:36.639 interruption capacity on physiological substance 00:08:36.639 --> 00:08:39.279 dependency, whether that's opioids, alcohol, 00:08:39.779 --> 00:08:44.159 methamphetamine, cocaine, or tobacco. Recent 00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:46.820 evidence also suggests that it has a significant 00:08:46.820 --> 00:08:49.360 interruption effect on compulsive behaviors, 00:08:49.799 --> 00:08:52.360 anything that kind of impacts that brain's dopamine 00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:55.159 system and produces a rush. Particularly gambling. 00:08:55.419 --> 00:08:59.879 Yes, sir. Now, in 2018, U .S. Special Forces 00:08:59.879 --> 00:09:02.899 special operators started going to Mexico for 00:09:02.899 --> 00:09:04.899 treatment of symptoms of traumatic brain injury 00:09:04.899 --> 00:09:07.840 expressed through treatment -resistant depression, 00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:12.759 anxiety, and suicidality. Many of these veterans 00:09:12.759 --> 00:09:15.740 had gone through the VA system. They had been 00:09:15.740 --> 00:09:19.240 given an unbelievable amount of synthetic pharmacology 00:09:19.240 --> 00:09:24.360 that, in their end effect, essentially anesthetizes 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:27.120 the soul. and slowly euthanizes the body and 00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:29.580 they were at the end so as they were going to 00:09:29.580 --> 00:09:31.919 Mexico and would get Ibogaine treatment they 00:09:31.919 --> 00:09:37.860 came back with these just unbelievably just powerful 00:09:37.860 --> 00:09:41.279 recovery results that seemed too good to be true 00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:45.860 so there were some scientists at Stanford University 00:09:45.860 --> 00:09:48.259 that were funded by a philanthropist who wanted 00:09:48.259 --> 00:09:50.779 to understand what was going on. And so what 00:09:50.779 --> 00:09:53.220 we have come to learn through a Stanford research 00:09:53.220 --> 00:09:55.840 study on traumatic brain injury for vets is that 00:09:55.840 --> 00:10:00.879 Ibogaine has remarkable neuroregenerative capacities 00:10:00.879 --> 00:10:04.139 on the brain that are unheard of in the annals 00:10:04.139 --> 00:10:08.309 of Western science. And while information is 00:10:08.309 --> 00:10:13.250 still very small in amount and preliminary, there 00:10:13.250 --> 00:10:15.809 are individuals who have had Ibogaine treatment 00:10:15.809 --> 00:10:19.070 for not just traumatic brain injury, but for 00:10:19.070 --> 00:10:23.090 multiple sclerosis, Lyme disease, Parkinson's 00:10:23.090 --> 00:10:25.850 disease, post -surgical complications related 00:10:25.850 --> 00:10:30.070 to the removal of brain tumor who endorse a restoration 00:10:30.070 --> 00:10:33.049 of functionality and an ability to live that 00:10:33.049 --> 00:10:37.070 are otherworldly. As we recognize that the opportunities 00:10:37.070 --> 00:10:40.470 to improve the human condition at scale are multi 00:10:40.470 --> 00:10:43.750 -lifetime in appearing, we believe that we have 00:10:43.750 --> 00:10:46.870 found one of those. And if we're going to do 00:10:46.870 --> 00:10:50.389 justice... to the human species, it is incumbent 00:10:50.389 --> 00:10:54.490 upon us to take what appears to be a promising 00:10:54.490 --> 00:10:57.669 therapeutic improvement and deliver it with speed 00:10:57.669 --> 00:11:00.029 through the U .S. medical systems. And that's 00:11:00.029 --> 00:11:02.129 what Governor Perry and I have founded Americans 00:11:02.129 --> 00:11:05.850 for Ibogaine to do. Just that. Achieve the moonshot 00:11:05.850 --> 00:11:08.769 of our time. And that is to bring Ibogaine medicine 00:11:08.769 --> 00:11:11.610 to the American people as quickly as possible. 00:11:12.330 --> 00:11:16.970 Well said. And thank you again. Governor Perry, 00:11:17.190 --> 00:11:19.610 because if it wasn't for your involvement in 00:11:19.610 --> 00:11:22.350 this, I think a lot of people would be far more 00:11:22.350 --> 00:11:25.450 skeptical. You know, you being a former distinguished 00:11:25.450 --> 00:11:28.970 governor of the state who is a Republican, generally 00:11:28.970 --> 00:11:31.289 speaking, most people think of Republicans being 00:11:31.289 --> 00:11:35.370 anti psychedelics and that this whole thing is 00:11:35.370 --> 00:11:37.309 just a bunch of people trying to escape reality 00:11:37.309 --> 00:11:41.070 and poison their mind and, you know, tune out 00:11:41.070 --> 00:11:44.169 of society and become losers. That's the general 00:11:44.169 --> 00:11:49.370 consensus of people that are just, for lack of 00:11:49.370 --> 00:11:51.970 a better term, ignorant of the effects of these 00:11:51.970 --> 00:11:54.789 substances. They don't understand it. But if 00:11:54.789 --> 00:11:57.690 it wasn't for you, your open -mindedness, your 00:11:57.690 --> 00:12:02.090 willingness to engage in this and try to understand 00:12:02.090 --> 00:12:05.009 it and to speak to these veterans, I don't think 00:12:05.009 --> 00:12:07.950 people would be taken into seriously. So thank 00:12:07.950 --> 00:12:12.980 you. Well, and thank you. As I've watched you 00:12:12.980 --> 00:12:16.379 over the last 15 months, it seemed like every 00:12:16.379 --> 00:12:19.399 six weeks or so, you'd have a guest on here and 00:12:19.399 --> 00:12:22.159 you'd be talking about Ibogaine in particular 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:25.759 and what is the progress that we're making. What 00:12:25.759 --> 00:12:28.860 comes up so often. Well, and it should. It should. 00:12:28.940 --> 00:12:34.419 It should because this truly – this is not what 00:12:34.419 --> 00:12:36.320 I came into the world for. This is not what I 00:12:36.320 --> 00:12:39.480 came to politics for. This is what – I got led 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:41.899 to this through that relationship with Marcus 00:12:41.899 --> 00:12:45.399 and, in turn, Morgan Luttrell and seeing those 00:12:45.399 --> 00:12:49.120 two boys literally, particularly Marcus, on the 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:52.279 doorstep of committing suicide. When he came 00:12:52.279 --> 00:12:54.159 to live with us at the governor's mansion in 00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:57.559 2007, we had met the year before just by the 00:12:57.559 --> 00:12:59.840 grace of God. And I told him, I said, if you're 00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:02.259 ever through Austin, come by and see me, knowing 00:13:02.259 --> 00:13:04.899 that. The chances of that would be pretty slim. 00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:11.019 He knocked on that guard door in May of 07 and 00:13:11.019 --> 00:13:12.419 said, the governor said, if I was ever through 00:13:12.419 --> 00:13:15.740 here, come by and see him. They called. I let 00:13:15.740 --> 00:13:18.759 him in for dinner. And my wife, who's a nurse, 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:22.019 she recognized this young man who was really 00:13:22.019 --> 00:13:27.299 troubled, addicted to opioids, masking it with 00:13:27.299 --> 00:13:30.539 alcohol, really sick. And for the next two and 00:13:30.539 --> 00:13:33.519 a half years, he lived with us at the governor's 00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:38.100 residence. Wow. And that started this long journey, 00:13:38.220 --> 00:13:44.779 literally, with him and trying to find ways to 00:13:44.779 --> 00:13:46.899 heal him. We sent him to a host of different 00:13:46.899 --> 00:13:48.919 places, Carrick Brain Center in Dallas. We sent 00:13:48.919 --> 00:13:53.740 him to what's called now Axios. athlete's performance 00:13:53.740 --> 00:13:57.259 in those days, but a great rehab facility down 00:13:57.259 --> 00:14:00.580 in the panhandle of Florida. And they helped 00:14:00.580 --> 00:14:06.919 him conquer or helped him manage the opioid addiction. 00:14:07.019 --> 00:14:10.480 I will suggest to you until he was treated with 00:14:10.480 --> 00:14:15.539 Ibogaine, which did clean that completely away 00:14:15.539 --> 00:14:18.820 from him some years later. But the point is, 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:25.179 he really struggled. and he has become like our 00:14:25.179 --> 00:14:27.779 son. As a matter of fact, I talked to him this 00:14:27.779 --> 00:14:29.360 morning. He said, be sure and tell Joe Howdy 00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:32.179 for me. He just thinks the world of you as well. 00:14:32.500 --> 00:14:35.299 I talked to his brother the day before. They 00:14:35.299 --> 00:14:39.700 understand how powerful this compound is from 00:14:39.700 --> 00:14:42.179 the standpoint of treating post -traumatic stress, 00:14:42.500 --> 00:14:47.200 traumatic brain injury, addictions. I mean, this, 00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:53.610 and as I became convinced, One of the things 00:14:53.610 --> 00:14:58.429 that I will say that I've been – I've been open 00:14:58.429 --> 00:15:00.490 to change just like criminal justice reform. 00:15:00.809 --> 00:15:03.230 In the early 2000s, I was kind of like lock their 00:15:03.230 --> 00:15:05.710 ass up, throw the key under the jail. You break 00:15:05.710 --> 00:15:07.529 the law in the state of Texas. Here's how we 00:15:07.529 --> 00:15:13.470 treat you. And I had a district judge in Fort 00:15:13.470 --> 00:15:16.970 Worth, John Cruz, a Democrat district judge who 00:15:16.970 --> 00:15:21.789 I knew and had been friends with. He said, Governor, 00:15:21.889 --> 00:15:25.309 we got a program here that allows these individuals 00:15:25.309 --> 00:15:28.250 who have broken the law, you know, they've maybe, 00:15:28.389 --> 00:15:31.210 you know, got caught with an illegal substance 00:15:31.210 --> 00:15:35.350 or what have you. And rather than sending them 00:15:35.350 --> 00:15:38.169 to jail, sending them to the penitentiary where 00:15:38.169 --> 00:15:43.149 they become professional criminals, we give them 00:15:43.149 --> 00:15:45.850 a second chance. We put them in a rehab program. 00:15:46.009 --> 00:15:47.850 We put them in a treatment center. We put them 00:15:47.850 --> 00:15:51.879 in a boot camp. Give them these options rather 00:15:51.879 --> 00:15:54.159 than sending them to prison where they're going 00:15:54.159 --> 00:15:57.440 to become professional criminals and the recidivism 00:15:57.440 --> 00:16:02.659 rate is going to continue on. You know, I'm kind 00:16:02.659 --> 00:16:06.820 of like, no, I'm tough on crime. That's what 00:16:06.820 --> 00:16:10.120 us Republicans do. But it really got me thinking. 00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:15.049 I mean, I am curious minded about. concepts and 00:16:15.049 --> 00:16:19.029 ideas. So that brought me to having conversations. 00:16:19.090 --> 00:16:23.429 And, you know, long story short, that single 00:16:23.429 --> 00:16:28.610 conversation led to Texas leading the nation 00:16:28.610 --> 00:16:33.269 with criminal justice reform. Texas Public Policy 00:16:33.269 --> 00:16:37.149 Foundation that now Secretary of Agriculture 00:16:37.149 --> 00:16:41.970 Brooke Rollins was operating in the mid to late. 00:16:43.300 --> 00:16:46.960 2000s. They came on board, saw this, supported 00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:51.500 it. We passed it through a very Republican, very 00:16:51.500 --> 00:16:55.460 conservative legislature. And Texas led the nation 00:16:55.460 --> 00:16:58.860 in criminal justice reform, saved us billions 00:16:58.860 --> 00:17:01.700 of dollars. We stopped building prisons. We stopped 00:17:01.700 --> 00:17:03.820 sending people to prison where they were becoming 00:17:03.820 --> 00:17:09.400 professional criminals. So that template, if 00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:12.849 you will, was what we took to Donald Trump in 00:17:12.849 --> 00:17:18.890 2018. And he was just like me initially. I'm 00:17:18.890 --> 00:17:24.630 tough on crime. But he was open. He was curious. 00:17:25.410 --> 00:17:28.329 Brooke Rollins, interestingly, had come up and 00:17:28.329 --> 00:17:32.289 was his domestic policy advisor at that time. 00:17:32.329 --> 00:17:35.490 And she made the pitch and he was open. And that 00:17:35.490 --> 00:17:39.509 conversation led to him being open to federal. 00:17:39.950 --> 00:17:43.710 criminal justice reform. And today, there are 00:17:43.710 --> 00:17:49.069 people who, I mean, you may have different ideas 00:17:49.069 --> 00:17:51.470 about President Trump and what have you. I know 00:17:51.470 --> 00:17:53.890 that's the case. But on this issue of criminal 00:17:53.890 --> 00:17:56.990 justice reform, this man was curious, he was 00:17:56.990 --> 00:18:00.670 open -minded, and he's made a real difference 00:18:00.670 --> 00:18:03.750 in people's lives following the Texas model. 00:18:03.970 --> 00:18:07.769 The reason I share that with you as an example, 00:18:07.930 --> 00:18:12.779 that's where I was on these compounds, these 00:18:12.779 --> 00:18:16.839 drugs, these psychedelics. I mean, I grew up 00:18:16.839 --> 00:18:21.619 in the 60s. Timothy O 'Leary, using LSD, marijuana, 00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:24.400 any of that kind of stuff. I mean, it was anathema 00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:28.519 to me. Absolutely and totally. I don't have anything 00:18:28.519 --> 00:18:31.420 to do with it. This is crazy stuff. You get in 00:18:31.420 --> 00:18:34.200 trouble. They'll throw you in jail. You'll jump 00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:38.450 off of buildings. Every story that you can imagine 00:18:38.450 --> 00:18:43.710 that people – and then think about from the 60s 00:18:43.710 --> 00:18:47.710 forward how – I went into the Air Force. They 00:18:47.710 --> 00:18:54.910 – we took drug tests at least monthly. So the 00:18:54.910 --> 00:18:58.650 idea of being involved with a drug was just totally 00:18:58.650 --> 00:19:01.049 and absolutely not on my radar screen. These 00:19:01.049 --> 00:19:05.490 are bad things and we're reinforced. in the 80s 00:19:05.490 --> 00:19:09.170 with Mrs. Reagan. Just say no to drugs. Here's 00:19:09.170 --> 00:19:11.769 your brain on drugs. I mean, we have been browbeat 00:19:11.769 --> 00:19:16.950 as a society for 60 years. And when you add to 00:19:16.950 --> 00:19:20.069 it what Nixon did, President Nixon did in the 00:19:20.069 --> 00:19:26.950 late 60s, early 70s, with his war on drugs, he 00:19:26.950 --> 00:19:29.549 hated hippies, he hated blacks, and one of the 00:19:29.549 --> 00:19:31.990 ways you could go after them was to go make these 00:19:31.990 --> 00:19:36.019 compounds Schedule I. which he did. Schedule 00:19:36.019 --> 00:19:39.240 1 says there is no medical purpose for it, and 00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:43.460 it is highly addictive. Ibogaine fits neither 00:19:43.460 --> 00:19:46.619 of those. Ibogaine is not an addictive compound 00:19:46.619 --> 00:19:49.599 by any sense of the imagination. It's also absolutely 00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:52.220 not a recreational compound. At all. It's not 00:19:52.220 --> 00:19:53.839 something that someone's going to do at a party. 00:19:53.940 --> 00:19:57.670 We are proving without a doubt. to the Texas 00:19:57.670 --> 00:20:01.210 legislature, to legislatures across this country, 00:20:01.289 --> 00:20:03.650 in Mississippi, in Tennessee, in Arizona, West 00:20:03.650 --> 00:20:06.990 Virginia, that it does have a medical purpose, 00:20:07.130 --> 00:20:09.410 that there are some extraordinary things that 00:20:09.410 --> 00:20:13.210 can happen for their citizens who have PTSD, 00:20:13.509 --> 00:20:16.910 who have sexual trauma, who have addictions. 00:20:16.910 --> 00:20:22.529 I mean, saving lives by the thousands. Hundreds 00:20:22.529 --> 00:20:24.509 of thousands, I will suggest to you, when this 00:20:24.509 --> 00:20:26.970 is approved across the country and we see it 00:20:26.970 --> 00:20:33.210 as a relatively easily studied and accessed by 00:20:33.210 --> 00:20:40.829 medical care compound. So that story of seeing 00:20:40.829 --> 00:20:47.450 these two young men who have given everything, 00:20:47.650 --> 00:20:51.109 literally, up to willing to give their lives. 00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:55.160 And a lot of their friends did for our freedoms 00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:58.299 and our liberties in this country. And for us 00:20:58.299 --> 00:21:01.220 to say to them, oh, sorry, you can't have access 00:21:01.220 --> 00:21:03.619 to this because, you know, they're, you know, 00:21:03.619 --> 00:21:07.900 President Nixon said this is bad stuff back 60 00:21:07.900 --> 00:21:10.359 years ago. And it was taken off the shelf as 00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:13.799 a schedule one drug put over here. And for 60 00:21:13.799 --> 00:21:18.779 years, Americans have suffered through so many 00:21:18.779 --> 00:21:26.269 different. eras, the late 90s, when the Sackler 00:21:26.269 --> 00:21:29.609 family and Purdue Pharma comes along. And we 00:21:29.609 --> 00:21:33.089 literally, I think one of the most demonic things 00:21:33.089 --> 00:21:36.390 I've seen in my public life is this family who 00:21:36.390 --> 00:21:43.609 used oxycodone and sold it to America as this 00:21:43.609 --> 00:21:47.190 be -all to end -all. And then our federal government 00:21:47.190 --> 00:21:50.750 in the mid -2000s We didn't know how to deal 00:21:50.750 --> 00:21:53.289 with these young men who would be put in these 00:21:53.289 --> 00:21:58.750 horrible conditions and positions of being at 00:21:58.750 --> 00:22:02.809 war time after time after time, rotation after 00:22:02.809 --> 00:22:06.049 rotation, tempos that we'd never seen before 00:22:06.049 --> 00:22:07.990 in the history of mankind, I'll suggest to you. 00:22:08.170 --> 00:22:12.470 I mean, Joe, we were at war for 20 years, 20 00:22:12.470 --> 00:22:15.660 years during that period of time. You know, special 00:22:15.660 --> 00:22:18.519 operators that were deployed eight, nine, ten 00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:22.380 times. And then they come home, and the governor 00:22:22.380 --> 00:22:25.940 gives them a sack of opioids, and that makes 00:22:25.940 --> 00:22:28.799 them feel crappy, and they mask it with alcohol. 00:22:28.859 --> 00:22:34.519 And we sit around and go, why did Bobby kill 00:22:34.519 --> 00:22:38.140 himself? Well, because the government failed 00:22:38.140 --> 00:22:40.900 in its great responsibility to take care of these 00:22:40.900 --> 00:22:44.430 young men and women, in my opinion. So we owe 00:22:44.430 --> 00:22:48.210 it to them. As a matter of fact, a dear friend 00:22:48.210 --> 00:22:51.150 of mine who just passed away within the last 00:22:51.150 --> 00:22:58.049 two days, he had worked with me for, gosh, 30 00:22:58.049 --> 00:23:05.970 years. And when he first saw that I was getting 00:23:05.970 --> 00:23:11.470 involved with this psychedelic drug, this Ibogaine 00:23:11.470 --> 00:23:15.740 compound, And we were having a conversation. 00:23:15.740 --> 00:23:17.779 He said, you need to be really careful with that. 00:23:17.859 --> 00:23:20.420 You've got a great reputation. You spent 40 years 00:23:20.420 --> 00:23:22.319 building that reputation up. He said, you don't 00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:24.980 want to throw it away on some cockamamie idea 00:23:24.980 --> 00:23:29.420 here. And I told him, I said, well, I don't think 00:23:29.420 --> 00:23:33.519 I'm doing that. I've studied this pretty intently. 00:23:33.660 --> 00:23:38.660 I've talked to a host of different people. And 00:23:38.660 --> 00:23:42.789 I said. So I'm comfortable about the science 00:23:42.789 --> 00:23:45.250 here that I'm seeing and what have you. And I 00:23:45.250 --> 00:23:49.930 think it's worth going forward with. I said, 00:23:49.950 --> 00:23:56.369 Ray, their lives are not worth more than my reputation. 00:23:57.170 --> 00:24:00.890 And that's what kind of continues to drive me. 00:24:01.029 --> 00:24:03.069 There are people that still kind of say, why 00:24:03.069 --> 00:24:04.829 are you doing this? Because I believe in it. 00:24:04.950 --> 00:24:08.410 I mean, I believe it to the point, Joe, that 00:24:08.410 --> 00:24:11.869 I'm willing to. Risk my reputation. This episode 00:24:11.869 --> 00:24:14.430 is brought to you by BetterHelp. A lot of people 00:24:14.430 --> 00:24:17.390 hit stretches where money gets tight. And it's 00:24:17.390 --> 00:24:19.670 not just the bills. It's the constant pressure, 00:24:20.049 --> 00:24:23.049 the mental load, the second guessing of every 00:24:23.049 --> 00:24:26.269 decision. And honestly, one of the biggest difference 00:24:26.269 --> 00:24:29.930 makers isn't some perfect budget. It's having 00:24:29.930 --> 00:24:33.730 a solid support system when things feel heavy. 00:24:34.210 --> 00:24:36.890 And if that support system includes therapy, 00:24:37.069 --> 00:24:40.900 even better. Because while it can't solve your 00:24:40.900 --> 00:24:44.099 money problems, it can change your relationship 00:24:44.099 --> 00:24:47.039 with finances. It can help you manage the stress, 00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:51.240 anxiety, and maybe even any shame you feel around 00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:54.339 money. A good place to find a quality therapist 00:24:54.339 --> 00:24:57.140 is BetterHelp. Plus, they do a lot of the work 00:24:57.140 --> 00:25:00.690 for you. Literally, all you need to do is answer 00:25:00.690 --> 00:25:03.250 a few questions and BetterHelp will match you 00:25:03.250 --> 00:25:06.809 with a fully qualified therapist online. They 00:25:06.809 --> 00:25:09.670 have an industry -leading match fulfillment rate, 00:25:09.809 --> 00:25:13.329 which is a fancy way of saying that they typically 00:25:13.329 --> 00:25:16.089 get it right the first time. But even if they 00:25:16.089 --> 00:25:18.410 don't. It's super simple to switch to another 00:25:18.410 --> 00:25:21.170 therapist. When life feels overwhelming, therapy 00:25:21.170 --> 00:25:25.329 can help. Sign up and get 10 % off at BetterHelp 00:25:25.329 --> 00:25:32.009 .com slash J -R -E. That's BetterHelp .com slash 00:25:32.009 --> 00:25:34.849 J -R -E. I don't think you're risking your reputation 00:25:34.849 --> 00:25:38.970 at all. I think that's foolish thinking. I think 00:25:38.970 --> 00:25:41.849 it's people that don't understand the times. 00:25:42.069 --> 00:25:45.079 This is a different world. We're living in a 00:25:45.079 --> 00:25:48.220 world of information now, and you can't go by 00:25:48.220 --> 00:25:50.619 these false narratives that were adopted in the 00:25:50.619 --> 00:25:54.299 1970s. And we're winning. I mean, I'm telling 00:25:54.299 --> 00:25:56.519 you what Americans for Ibogaine has done. And, 00:25:56.619 --> 00:25:58.160 you know, we started out, I tell people, I said, 00:25:58.279 --> 00:26:00.700 you talk about a small group of people. I think 00:26:00.700 --> 00:26:03.359 there were six of us. He's the CEO. I'm the chairman. 00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:08.019 We got Dr. Rulon, who's the secretary, and Claire 00:26:08.019 --> 00:26:10.960 Stapleton, the communications person, and then 00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:15.650 Marcus and Melanie Luttrell. Marcus's wife, are 00:26:15.650 --> 00:26:18.210 the other two members of our little board. And 00:26:18.210 --> 00:26:20.690 we were this small little group kind of going 00:26:20.690 --> 00:26:23.009 along and doing what we were doing. We were successful 00:26:23.009 --> 00:26:26.430 in the Texas legislature and what have you. But 00:26:26.430 --> 00:26:31.230 it's exploded now. We have ambassadors, Americans 00:26:31.230 --> 00:26:35.289 for Ibogaine ambassadors all over the United 00:26:35.289 --> 00:26:39.460 States now. People have seen what we've been 00:26:39.460 --> 00:26:43.420 able to do in Texas. Mississippi followed suit. 00:26:43.539 --> 00:26:46.420 They sent their governor a piece of legislation. 00:26:46.579 --> 00:26:48.099 I want you to talk about that. We're going to 00:26:48.099 --> 00:26:51.960 do the roll call here. Yeah, and share with Joe 00:26:51.960 --> 00:26:55.440 and his audience just the great progress that's 00:26:55.440 --> 00:27:00.460 being made. And quite frankly, I think about 00:27:00.460 --> 00:27:02.980 Michael Dell when he was selling computers out 00:27:02.980 --> 00:27:05.940 of the – trunk of his car back in the late 80s 00:27:05.940 --> 00:27:10.119 and and then his college dormitory afi kind of 00:27:10.119 --> 00:27:13.799 found itself like that um just a few months ago 00:27:13.799 --> 00:27:17.380 and i'm not trying to say that you know we're 00:27:17.380 --> 00:27:21.140 dell computer today but we are growing at such 00:27:21.140 --> 00:27:23.720 a leaps and bounds and and you know and having 00:27:23.720 --> 00:27:25.980 the resources that we need to be able to put 00:27:25.980 --> 00:27:28.700 our people in various places i mean he's the 00:27:29.669 --> 00:27:32.210 You were in Cabo. I want you to tell them about 00:27:32.210 --> 00:27:35.150 the group that you met with in Cabo. I mean, 00:27:35.170 --> 00:27:37.750 just 200 of these extraordinary people down there. 00:27:37.829 --> 00:27:40.549 He travels all over the country. And we have 00:27:40.549 --> 00:27:43.930 to have the resources to be able to do that. 00:27:45.009 --> 00:27:49.410 So I hope the folks that are listening go to 00:27:49.410 --> 00:27:51.910 Americans for Ibogaine. You know how to tell 00:27:51.910 --> 00:27:53.950 them how to do that and help this organization 00:27:53.950 --> 00:27:56.990 because this is what I'm going to do the rest 00:27:56.990 --> 00:28:01.500 of my life. I'm 76 years old, and this is what 00:28:01.500 --> 00:28:04.759 I hope the Lord gives me a lot of years to make 00:28:04.759 --> 00:28:07.960 a difference because I know for a fact that what 00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:10.539 we're doing today, what you're helping us with, 00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:14.319 is making a difference. And if we can get these 00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:17.160 clinical trials to the conclusion, and, you know, 00:28:17.180 --> 00:28:19.180 thank you. to the Lieutenant Governor and to 00:28:19.180 --> 00:28:21.259 the Speaker for what they committed to today. 00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:24.220 I mean, to know that we're going to be able to 00:28:24.220 --> 00:28:26.839 go forward now with these clinical trials, to 00:28:26.839 --> 00:28:31.640 show the world exactly what we know, but so that 00:28:31.640 --> 00:28:35.099 the naysayers out there, the skeptic, can look 00:28:35.099 --> 00:28:38.460 at that and go, you know what? You can get 85 00:28:38.460 --> 00:28:42.400 percent of the people who are hooked on opioids 00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:47.240 clean in 72 hours. Isn't that amazing? I mean, 00:28:47.240 --> 00:28:50.019 that's such a stunning thing to me. Dr. Gull 00:28:50.019 --> 00:28:53.500 Dolan, we were at South by Southwest a week and 00:28:53.500 --> 00:28:56.099 a half ago. She was sitting on the stage. She's 00:28:56.099 --> 00:28:58.480 an MD, PhD, was at Johns Hopkins. She's over 00:28:58.480 --> 00:29:05.039 at Cal Berkeley now. And she gave a little. primer, 00:29:05.180 --> 00:29:11.400 if you will, on the different psychedelics. There's 00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:14.019 a critical period that the mind opens up and 00:29:14.019 --> 00:29:19.279 you're able to go in and, if you will, the medicine 00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:21.859 treats the mind, I think, from my Aggie, you 00:29:21.859 --> 00:29:25.380 know, non -pharmaceutical, non -scientific mind 00:29:25.380 --> 00:29:29.619 here, but to go in and repair, reset the brain. 00:29:31.279 --> 00:29:36.829 The technical word is neuroplasticity. But ketamine 00:29:36.829 --> 00:29:44.009 has a critical period. I think she said 48 to 00:29:44.009 --> 00:29:49.990 72 hours. Psilocybin has a critical period from 00:29:49.990 --> 00:29:56.509 14 to 28 days. I think I'm pretty close on these. 00:29:57.250 --> 00:30:01.920 But ibogaine, the critical period. The time when 00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:04.799 that neuroplasticity is active and the brain 00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:11.259 can be trained, healed, reset is from 90 to 120 00:30:11.259 --> 00:30:17.720 days. And then with the addiction, opioids, which 00:30:17.720 --> 00:30:19.279 I happen to think is one of the most addictive 00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:21.819 substances that's out there. I mean, this is 00:30:21.819 --> 00:30:26.779 some horrible stuff. This very current event 00:30:26.779 --> 00:30:30.539 with Tiger Woods and Tiger's accident. He had 00:30:30.539 --> 00:30:35.079 Oxycontin in his – I'm not judging here, but 00:30:35.079 --> 00:30:38.599 I'm just kind of saying that may – when I ran 00:30:38.599 --> 00:30:41.740 for president in 2011, I'd had major back surgery 00:30:41.740 --> 00:30:45.930 in July. I announced that I was running for president 00:30:45.930 --> 00:30:48.569 in August. I had six weeks to try to get over 00:30:48.569 --> 00:30:51.289 that major back surgery. And I had a terrible 00:30:51.289 --> 00:30:55.589 condition called a neurological hyperfusion in 00:30:55.589 --> 00:30:57.789 my right leg. I've never had a pain like that. 00:30:58.109 --> 00:31:00.529 Felt like a blowtorch going down my right leg. 00:31:00.769 --> 00:31:04.690 And they gave me Oxycontin. And I was taking 00:31:04.690 --> 00:31:07.470 that to cover up the pain. I was taking Ambien 00:31:07.470 --> 00:31:09.230 to go to sleep at night. And I was taking some 00:31:09.230 --> 00:31:12.250 stuff called Provigil to get back up in the morning 00:31:12.250 --> 00:31:18.220 and be focused. I laugh about it now. I'm surprised 00:31:18.220 --> 00:31:21.319 I did as well as I did in that presidential effort 00:31:21.319 --> 00:31:24.900 in 2011. Hell, forgetting that one thing, that 00:31:24.900 --> 00:31:27.640 third thing in that debate. Hell, I'm surprised 00:31:27.640 --> 00:31:30.200 I could remember any of them. Knowing what I 00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:35.619 know now about OxyContin and the incredibly nasty, 00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:39.160 addictive nature that it has. I mean, this stuff 00:31:39.160 --> 00:31:51.059 is just poison. Ibogaine. In 48 to 72 hours after 00:31:51.059 --> 00:31:57.119 one dose, one oral application of this compound, 00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:03.319 and that addiction is gone. Not only is that 00:32:03.319 --> 00:32:09.420 addiction gone, Joe, but Stanford has done functional 00:32:09.420 --> 00:32:17.750 MRIs on an addicted. opioid brain, and then treatment 00:32:17.750 --> 00:32:21.970 with Ibogaine. And they have shown that brain 00:32:21.970 --> 00:32:27.150 from the addicted look that those experts, those 00:32:27.150 --> 00:32:32.849 postdocs that look at this, to a normal brain, 00:32:33.049 --> 00:32:38.950 a normal brain scan in 72 hours. If you were 00:32:38.950 --> 00:32:43.380 to go through the normal process, of healing 00:32:43.380 --> 00:32:49.160 yourself of opioid addiction through an abstinence 00:32:49.160 --> 00:32:52.180 program, it would take you 18 months. And there 00:32:52.180 --> 00:32:54.519 are very few, I'm going to say, single -digit 00:32:54.519 --> 00:32:56.900 people that are successful in being able to do 00:32:56.900 --> 00:32:59.460 that. But think about that. We've got a compound 00:32:59.460 --> 00:33:04.480 here that has the ability to heal people of opioid 00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:14.049 addiction in 48 to 72 hours. And we're not doing 00:33:14.049 --> 00:33:16.289 everything that we can in our power to make that 00:33:16.289 --> 00:33:18.849 available? I mean, what the hell is wrong with 00:33:18.849 --> 00:33:21.829 us? How bad you got to hate people to not make 00:33:21.829 --> 00:33:26.009 that available? And with two doses, it's even 00:33:26.009 --> 00:33:31.369 more spectacular. 98%. That is amazing. 98%. 00:33:31.369 --> 00:33:34.450 That is truly amazing. There's nothing even remotely 00:33:34.450 --> 00:33:38.670 like it with standard practice addiction therapy. 00:33:38.849 --> 00:33:42.099 Nothing. Nothing. You know, he mentioned the 00:33:42.099 --> 00:33:44.779 Americans for Ibogaine. We have ambassadors. 00:33:45.180 --> 00:33:48.339 And, Joe, what you really helped us do on January 00:33:48.339 --> 00:33:53.609 2nd of 25 was create a movement. Our organization 00:33:53.609 --> 00:33:57.089 is the custodian of that movement. We are a public 00:33:57.089 --> 00:33:59.990 policy and advocacy organization, and Governor 00:33:59.990 --> 00:34:02.529 Perry mentions keeping me on the road. Wherever 00:34:02.529 --> 00:34:06.210 there are state leaders, citizens of conviction 00:34:06.210 --> 00:34:09.889 and influence, whether that is California, whether 00:34:09.889 --> 00:34:11.809 it's Massachusetts, or whether it's Alabama, 00:34:12.110 --> 00:34:16.510 we exist to plant the seed of a scientific understanding 00:34:16.510 --> 00:34:19.909 of a public policy framework. and of a spiritual 00:34:19.909 --> 00:34:22.050 understanding of the significance of what we 00:34:22.050 --> 00:34:25.130 have in our hands here, an opportunity to improve 00:34:25.130 --> 00:34:28.449 the human condition at scale. And while we have 00:34:28.449 --> 00:34:31.969 talked tightly about Ibogaine's impact on substance 00:34:31.969 --> 00:34:35.349 dependency and upon the wounds of war, our ambassadors 00:34:35.349 --> 00:34:39.869 reflect essentially the universal human condition 00:34:39.869 --> 00:34:43.070 and the way in which individuals who have tried 00:34:43.070 --> 00:34:47.269 every way to overcome various forms of trauma 00:34:47.269 --> 00:34:53.409 and debility find as the last step a redemptive 00:34:53.409 --> 00:34:56.250 restoration through Ibogaine treatment. It is 00:34:56.250 --> 00:34:59.670 not for everybody. It should not be a first resort. 00:34:59.929 --> 00:35:04.329 It is an exceptionally powerful medication that 00:35:04.329 --> 00:35:07.130 comes with a series of side effects that are 00:35:07.130 --> 00:35:09.150 highly unpleasant, as you previously mentioned. 00:35:09.869 --> 00:35:12.349 One of the selling points, ironically, in the 00:35:12.349 --> 00:35:16.150 Texas legislature was to say, if your idea of 00:35:16.150 --> 00:35:19.090 a good time is being in a state of semi paralysis 00:35:19.090 --> 00:35:22.349 for 12 to 16 hours and throwing up continuously 00:35:22.349 --> 00:35:24.849 through the process. You're going to have a real 00:35:24.849 --> 00:35:28.059 good time. And if there is the equivalent of 00:35:28.059 --> 00:35:30.840 being brought to the judgment throne of God on 00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:33.139 this side of life, it is an Ibogaine experience. 00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:36.820 That seemed to motivate a lot of support, especially 00:35:36.820 --> 00:35:39.400 for those who subscribe to puritanical notions 00:35:39.400 --> 00:35:41.920 of punishment for wrongdoing. That's not what 00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:45.039 I'm here to advocate, but certainly it is not 00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:49.039 fun. But what we know is that, for instance, 00:35:49.320 --> 00:35:53.940 we have two fashion model twins whose father, 00:35:54.489 --> 00:35:59.090 sexually abused them for a decade. And the results 00:35:59.090 --> 00:36:03.050 of that horrific experience that they shared 00:36:03.050 --> 00:36:07.289 produced all kinds of psychological maladies 00:36:07.289 --> 00:36:10.909 that included an eating disorder for one, persistent 00:36:10.909 --> 00:36:13.769 neuroses in the other. They tried every form 00:36:13.769 --> 00:36:16.230 of talk therapy. They tried every psychotherapy 00:36:16.230 --> 00:36:19.630 modality known to try to overcome that. And it 00:36:19.630 --> 00:36:22.429 was Ibogaine that restored their lives and their 00:36:22.429 --> 00:36:26.730 capacity to enjoy the life that God has given 00:36:26.730 --> 00:36:30.070 them. We have first responders who are emerging 00:36:30.070 --> 00:36:33.130 in numbers. One who is a firefighter from Oklahoma 00:36:33.130 --> 00:36:36.610 who was demoted because of decades of alcoholism. 00:36:36.650 --> 00:36:38.969 His life has been restored by Ibogaine and he's 00:36:38.969 --> 00:36:42.070 back working full time. We have a gentleman who 00:36:42.070 --> 00:36:45.409 was a Charlottesville police officer who was 00:36:45.409 --> 00:36:48.590 hit in the face with a brick during the riots 00:36:48.590 --> 00:36:51.699 that occurred in Charlottesville. His life was 00:36:51.699 --> 00:36:53.780 restored by a single Ibogaine treatment, and 00:36:53.780 --> 00:36:55.940 he has attained a level of functionality that 00:36:55.940 --> 00:36:57.840 he didn't think was possible, nor his doctors. 00:36:58.340 --> 00:37:03.579 We have a gentleman who was a pilot who unfortunately 00:37:03.579 --> 00:37:06.960 did a bomb and run on a village and killed a 00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:08.860 number of innocent people. He learned about this, 00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:12.079 and this sent him into a spiral, as many warfighters 00:37:12.079 --> 00:37:16.059 who are exposed to moral injury do. Ibogaine 00:37:16.059 --> 00:37:19.820 has restored this gentleman's life. We have a 00:37:19.820 --> 00:37:22.199 gentleman by the name of Robert Gallery, a former 00:37:22.199 --> 00:37:25.719 NFL player who exhibited all the signs of CTE 00:37:25.719 --> 00:37:29.880 in his post -retirement years. He was ready to... 00:37:30.300 --> 00:37:32.719 kill himself so that he wouldn't harm his own 00:37:32.719 --> 00:37:35.360 family. It was Ibogaine that restored his life. 00:37:35.599 --> 00:37:37.639 There have been other NFL players who are as 00:37:37.639 --> 00:37:40.940 yet unnamed, some incidentally that have been 00:37:40.940 --> 00:37:43.000 in the paper who have gone for Ibogaine treatment 00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:46.159 to address similar symptoms. Players in the NHL, 00:37:46.219 --> 00:37:50.079 players in other contact sports that include 00:37:50.079 --> 00:37:52.500 soccer and rugby and the United Kingdom where 00:37:52.500 --> 00:37:55.300 there is an emerging cohort of professional athletes 00:37:55.300 --> 00:37:58.969 who have reached out to us to say we want The 00:37:58.969 --> 00:38:01.269 United Kingdom for Ibogaine. I would love to 00:38:01.269 --> 00:38:04.090 get you guys connected with the UFC. We would 00:38:04.090 --> 00:38:06.510 love to be connected to the UFC. Because that 00:38:06.510 --> 00:38:09.190 is obviously an issue with professional fighters. 00:38:09.670 --> 00:38:15.530 So Hughes, Matt Hughes, and Matt had – I met 00:38:15.530 --> 00:38:19.349 Matt through Marcus, gosh, in like 2008 or so. 00:38:19.590 --> 00:38:22.670 And we went out for a fight. And then subsequently 00:38:22.670 --> 00:38:29.449 Matt had, I think, a car accident. He was hit 00:38:29.449 --> 00:38:33.170 by a train. Yeah, just an incredible traumatic 00:38:33.170 --> 00:38:39.329 brain injury. And I just want to have that conversation 00:38:39.329 --> 00:38:42.949 with him. And I'm sure you have great relationships 00:38:42.949 --> 00:38:47.969 with those. We know for a fact that cumulative 00:38:47.969 --> 00:38:56.880 impacts on the brain are what lead to CTE. I 00:38:56.880 --> 00:38:59.239 don't think that's even a question of that. Here's 00:38:59.239 --> 00:39:03.179 how it happens. These multiple concussions have 00:39:03.179 --> 00:39:06.159 cumulative effect on the brain. And at some point 00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:14.219 in time, that CTE has a long time effect. And 00:39:14.219 --> 00:39:23.440 this medicine has the ability to remove that. 00:39:24.110 --> 00:39:27.190 trauma, to reset that brain, to heal that brain. 00:39:27.349 --> 00:39:29.909 I don't know how it works, Joe, but that's the 00:39:29.909 --> 00:39:32.050 reason these clinical trials are going to be 00:39:32.050 --> 00:39:35.789 so important as we're going forward. And I can't 00:39:35.789 --> 00:39:39.449 tell you, I'm ecstatic that the lieutenant governor 00:39:39.449 --> 00:39:45.070 and the speaker today announced their full Texas 00:39:45.070 --> 00:39:48.429 support behind these clinical trials. We're fixing 00:39:48.429 --> 00:39:52.420 to become the epicenter. For a movement that 00:39:52.420 --> 00:39:54.420 literally can change the world. And I know that 00:39:54.420 --> 00:39:58.500 sounds kind of a little bit over the top. But 00:39:58.500 --> 00:40:04.380 if we have within our grasp here a compound that 00:40:04.380 --> 00:40:08.019 can heal our loved ones who have an addiction. 00:40:08.900 --> 00:40:12.119 be it a substance addiction or be it a non -substance 00:40:12.119 --> 00:40:15.500 addiction, if we have the ability to heal people 00:40:15.500 --> 00:40:19.400 who have been traumatically impacted by concussions, 00:40:19.460 --> 00:40:24.320 if we have the ability to address PTSD and all 00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:27.519 the different forms that it comes, I mean, the 00:40:27.519 --> 00:40:31.159 hope that that can give to the society that we 00:40:31.159 --> 00:40:33.539 live in. And I'm not talking about just the United 00:40:33.539 --> 00:40:36.739 States. You think about what's going on in Israel. 00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:41.300 Ukraine, in the Middle East today, and the trauma 00:40:41.300 --> 00:40:45.579 that people are facing. I mean, this truly can 00:40:45.579 --> 00:40:49.760 be an extraordinary gift to the world. Listen, 00:40:49.760 --> 00:40:54.519 I think it's really interesting you ask a leading 00:40:54.519 --> 00:41:02.420 question about how did I come to this position 00:41:02.420 --> 00:41:08.519 of being able to be supportive as I am. When 00:41:08.519 --> 00:41:11.699 I think about my growing up, and I grew up in 00:41:11.699 --> 00:41:17.219 a very conservative Christian family. And I think 00:41:17.219 --> 00:41:21.679 one of the challenges we still have in our society 00:41:21.679 --> 00:41:29.219 is that the conservative Christian faith is like, 00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:32.260 stay away from that stuff. I mean, that's bad. 00:41:32.559 --> 00:41:37.150 Do not. Under any circumstances. Don't be going 00:41:37.150 --> 00:41:42.150 there. It's demonic. And there's a book that's 00:41:42.150 --> 00:41:45.989 about to be published. I think the first week 00:41:45.989 --> 00:41:48.869 in April. So we're approaching it. There's an 00:41:48.869 --> 00:41:53.210 author by the name of Wendy Reese. R -E -E -S. 00:41:53.710 --> 00:41:58.250 Wendy with an I. W -E -N -D -I -R -E -E -S. And 00:41:58.250 --> 00:42:04.880 she, not unlike the two twins. was sexually assaulted 00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:08.300 by her own father. He was a pastor of a church. 00:42:08.739 --> 00:42:13.019 Joe, I'm telling you, brother, I can't dream 00:42:13.019 --> 00:42:19.059 up in my worst nightmare a more evil thing than 00:42:19.059 --> 00:42:21.199 a father that would sexually assault their daughter. 00:42:21.199 --> 00:42:27.880 A preacher father. And she dealt with it with 00:42:27.880 --> 00:42:30.989 Ibogaine. And has come to the conclusion that 00:42:30.989 --> 00:42:33.829 her great gift to give to the world out there 00:42:33.829 --> 00:42:37.190 is to write this book called A Christian's Guide 00:42:37.190 --> 00:42:40.409 to Psychedelics. Now, if you think that won't 00:42:40.409 --> 00:42:42.190 catch some people's attention when they're going 00:42:42.190 --> 00:42:44.550 through the bookstore and they go, A Christian's 00:42:44.550 --> 00:42:49.409 Guide to Psychedelics, holy mackerel. But this 00:42:49.409 --> 00:42:53.730 is a book about her experience. But it's also 00:42:53.730 --> 00:42:57.389 a book that I would suggest that every believing 00:42:57.389 --> 00:43:00.539 Christian. Go pick it up and read it because 00:43:00.539 --> 00:43:04.079 it talks about chapter and verse and gives you 00:43:04.079 --> 00:43:07.280 scripture about where God talks about these compounds, 00:43:07.619 --> 00:43:09.599 about these things that he's given the world. 00:43:09.659 --> 00:43:12.579 He means them for good, all of them for good. 00:43:12.900 --> 00:43:17.280 Are you aware of the scholars in Israel that 00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:20.480 are proposing that Moses seeing the burning bush 00:43:20.480 --> 00:43:24.940 was the acacia tree? Yeah. There's an acacia 00:43:24.940 --> 00:43:27.440 tree, the acacia tree, which is very common in 00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:30.900 the Middle East. is rich in dimethyltryptamine. 00:43:31.139 --> 00:43:35.119 And they believe that what they're trying to 00:43:35.119 --> 00:43:38.179 relay in this story was that Moses encountered 00:43:38.179 --> 00:43:43.480 God through the burning of this bush. So the 00:43:43.480 --> 00:43:45.800 burning of this bush, releasing the psychedelic 00:43:45.800 --> 00:43:49.980 compound dimethyltryptamine, allowed Moses to 00:43:49.980 --> 00:43:54.739 bring back the Ten Commandments. You know, thank 00:43:54.739 --> 00:43:57.579 you for mentioning that. I have been following 00:43:57.579 --> 00:44:00.760 scholarship around the use and the recognition 00:44:00.760 --> 00:44:03.159 that there's a lot of psychedelic allegory in 00:44:03.159 --> 00:44:06.860 Holy Scripture. That, I think, is the favorite, 00:44:07.019 --> 00:44:11.619 where that burning bush reveals the great I am. 00:44:11.739 --> 00:44:15.079 And when Moses says, who are you? I am who I 00:44:15.079 --> 00:44:17.929 am. and the beauty about Ibogaine and the other 00:44:17.929 --> 00:44:20.869 plant medicines are their capacity to reveal 00:44:20.869 --> 00:44:24.809 the I am that is within each of us and that I 00:44:24.809 --> 00:44:28.010 am is our eternal creator who absolutely has 00:44:28.010 --> 00:44:30.530 engineered and placed these plants on this earth 00:44:30.530 --> 00:44:34.570 so that we can be affirmed in what our true identity 00:44:34.570 --> 00:44:37.449 and ultimate destiny is and praise God for it. 00:44:38.570 --> 00:44:40.829 And then there's also the Sacred Mushroom and 00:44:40.829 --> 00:44:43.230 the Cross, the John Marco Allegro book, where 00:44:43.230 --> 00:44:47.409 he was one of the ordained ministers that was 00:44:47.409 --> 00:44:51.650 – his task was to decode the Dead Sea Scrolls. 00:44:51.829 --> 00:44:56.550 And he wrote this book that details what he believes 00:44:56.550 --> 00:44:59.710 is the use of psychedelic drugs in ancient Christianity. 00:45:02.349 --> 00:45:05.849 Hard for me to argue with. I mean I just think 00:45:05.849 --> 00:45:09.800 our modern perception of it. Which is very tainted 00:45:09.800 --> 00:45:12.300 by what happened during the Nixon administration 00:45:12.300 --> 00:45:15.000 where they were trying to squash the hippie movement, 00:45:15.179 --> 00:45:17.019 the anti -war movement, and the civil rights 00:45:17.019 --> 00:45:19.239 movement. And that's why they demonized these 00:45:19.239 --> 00:45:21.519 drugs and these compounds. And that's why they 00:45:21.519 --> 00:45:24.420 put them in this category of having no medicinal 00:45:24.420 --> 00:45:28.260 use, which is clearly not accurate. It doesn't 00:45:28.260 --> 00:45:30.519 mean that they should just be given to everyone 00:45:30.519 --> 00:45:32.599 and everyone should do them with no restrictions 00:45:32.599 --> 00:45:36.400 and no regulations. It just means we should understand 00:45:36.400 --> 00:45:41.010 that. They have a long history of human use and 00:45:41.010 --> 00:45:44.469 have spectacular results on all sorts of things 00:45:44.469 --> 00:45:48.090 that our society is suffering from greatly. And 00:45:48.090 --> 00:45:51.190 to just pretend that that's not the case based 00:45:51.190 --> 00:45:55.090 on what happened in the 1970s is just insane. 00:45:55.369 --> 00:45:58.869 It doesn't make any sense. I would suggest that 00:45:58.869 --> 00:46:02.210 one of the greatest lessons learned by Americans 00:46:02.210 --> 00:46:05.659 who are age 50 and younger. those of us who I 00:46:05.659 --> 00:46:08.880 call the bicentennial children, is that the most 00:46:08.880 --> 00:46:12.420 morally depraved criminal in America today is 00:46:12.420 --> 00:46:15.840 power. And the power of the human hand, when 00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:19.079 it is wielded in its most abusive context, will 00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:22.260 always seek to deny any access to individual 00:46:22.260 --> 00:46:25.719 human divinity and the liberty and autonomy that 00:46:25.719 --> 00:46:28.719 is conferred upon each of us as children of God. 00:46:29.480 --> 00:46:32.420 And insofar as we find ourselves at the precipice 00:46:32.420 --> 00:46:36.079 of what I believe is the emergence of a broad 00:46:36.079 --> 00:46:38.880 -based spiritual movement where all of us modernists 00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:41.800 within the empiricism of modern American society 00:46:41.800 --> 00:46:44.500 are able to see through the fog of all of our 00:46:44.500 --> 00:46:48.500 wealth and gadgetry and recognize, we are in 00:46:48.500 --> 00:46:52.320 the midst of profound spiritual famine in the 00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:55.860 United States. You, I know, and forgive me for 00:46:55.860 --> 00:47:01.059 referencing age, Remember back in the mid -80s, 00:47:01.059 --> 00:47:05.880 where we saw all these horrific images of starvation 00:47:05.880 --> 00:47:12.300 and dissension and fly -covered death from mass 00:47:12.300 --> 00:47:16.480 famine in Ethiopia and Sudan, where millions 00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:20.639 of people starved to death because the malevolence 00:47:20.639 --> 00:47:25.119 of power forbade the delivery of any relief sent 00:47:25.119 --> 00:47:29.849 by the outside world. When we look at what's 00:47:29.849 --> 00:47:32.530 right in front of us in the United States today, 00:47:32.730 --> 00:47:38.010 there is no denying that we are in the midst 00:47:38.010 --> 00:47:43.429 of a terrible spiritual famine. And the malevolence 00:47:43.429 --> 00:47:47.090 of American power is feasting on our starvation. 00:47:47.530 --> 00:47:51.989 This is an emancipation movement for the mind. 00:47:52.539 --> 00:47:56.400 body and soul of every human being in this country 00:47:56.400 --> 00:48:00.639 and across the globe who is lethally estranged 00:48:00.639 --> 00:48:04.500 from their own spirituality. The Abigain Mission 00:48:04.500 --> 00:48:09.679 is a mission to foment dramatic medical breakthroughs 00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:12.880 across a host of conditions that have no effective 00:48:12.880 --> 00:48:16.079 therapeutic answers. But above and beyond that, 00:48:16.260 --> 00:48:19.380 it is about the affirmation of the spiritual 00:48:19.380 --> 00:48:23.949 essence of life. that can unify us as a species 00:48:23.949 --> 00:48:26.309 in a way that is necessary if we're going to 00:48:26.309 --> 00:48:28.250 navigate these changes over the next 20 years. 00:48:28.630 --> 00:48:31.530 Governor Perry mentioned this wonderful invitation 00:48:31.530 --> 00:48:34.829 that I received to go to what was called the 00:48:34.829 --> 00:48:40.570 Earth One Summit. Now, Joe, I come out of Hillbilly 00:48:40.570 --> 00:48:46.349 Holler, Virginia, and it's a— I do. I introduce 00:48:46.349 --> 00:48:50.070 him from time to time. I said, look, this guy— 00:48:50.539 --> 00:48:54.500 He's he's he looks like and he sounds like a 00:48:54.500 --> 00:48:59.480 hillbilly from eastern Kentucky in the Appalachian 00:48:59.480 --> 00:49:02.860 Mountains. And I said he is. But I said he's 00:49:02.860 --> 00:49:05.340 one of the most brilliant people I've ever met 00:49:05.340 --> 00:49:07.719 in my life and one of the most extraordinary 00:49:07.719 --> 00:49:09.940 orators I've ever had in my life. So anyway, 00:49:10.019 --> 00:49:13.150 I wanted to I love you, brother. But you are 00:49:13.150 --> 00:49:16.769 a hillbilly. I'm much more comfortable with that 00:49:16.769 --> 00:49:20.130 than all that other stuff you said. But, you 00:49:20.130 --> 00:49:22.469 know, when you come out of scratch nothing sometimes, 00:49:22.730 --> 00:49:24.789 there are certain sophistications that you lack. 00:49:25.030 --> 00:49:27.909 And I'm no exception to that. So there was this 00:49:27.909 --> 00:49:30.489 Earth One Summit. It was 200 thought leaders 00:49:30.489 --> 00:49:33.610 from across the world who came to basically discuss 00:49:33.610 --> 00:49:37.449 the future. And I was very honored to have received 00:49:37.449 --> 00:49:41.170 an invitation to come and attend the gathering 00:49:41.170 --> 00:49:43.489 to speak about what Governor Perry and I are 00:49:43.489 --> 00:49:45.690 working on through Americans for Ibogaine. And 00:49:45.690 --> 00:49:48.530 they presented me with the honor of being the 00:49:48.530 --> 00:49:52.110 closing keynote speaker for the gathering. And 00:49:52.110 --> 00:49:56.150 as I listened over the course of four days, I 00:49:56.150 --> 00:50:01.000 heard individuals who included Kimball and Christiana 00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:04.579 Musk, and I've read interviews by Elon Musk speaking 00:50:04.579 --> 00:50:09.320 about the advent of AI and the capacity of AI 00:50:09.320 --> 00:50:12.860 to solve the central dilemma that we as humans 00:50:12.860 --> 00:50:15.099 have had since we emerged from the caves, and 00:50:15.099 --> 00:50:18.599 that's the dilemma of scarcity. So as I was there 00:50:18.599 --> 00:50:22.820 listening to folks speak about being on the edge 00:50:22.820 --> 00:50:28.199 of a time when we can automate. the means of 00:50:28.199 --> 00:50:32.139 production and essentially create an unlimited 00:50:32.139 --> 00:50:35.019 amount of abundance for every person on this 00:50:35.019 --> 00:50:40.000 planet, I couldn't help but think about where 00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:44.599 we are right now as compared to where these individuals 00:50:44.599 --> 00:50:50.360 see us being in 20 years. You cannot create and 00:50:50.360 --> 00:50:56.159 deploy this kind of God -like technology. which 00:50:56.159 --> 00:50:59.300 has the capacity to produce unlimited abundance, 00:50:59.500 --> 00:51:04.219 potentially usher in the age of Aquarius, and 00:51:04.219 --> 00:51:08.599 drop it in to these Frankenstein monstrosity 00:51:08.599 --> 00:51:12.480 government systems that we currently have that 00:51:12.480 --> 00:51:15.920 are enthroned upon the helplessness of powerless 00:51:15.920 --> 00:51:19.000 people that perpetuate problems that they are 00:51:19.000 --> 00:51:22.219 supposed to solve and that monetize sustained 00:51:22.219 --> 00:51:26.440 human misery. So long as government makes its 00:51:26.440 --> 00:51:29.920 buck over keeping its foot on the necks of the 00:51:29.920 --> 00:51:32.659 American people, we are looking at a future that 00:51:32.659 --> 00:51:35.780 much more resembles Mad Max than we are Star 00:51:35.780 --> 00:51:38.739 Trek. And if we are going to create the degree 00:51:38.739 --> 00:51:41.739 of social cohesion that is necessary to hold 00:51:41.739 --> 00:51:45.659 these systems accountable and to create a system 00:51:45.659 --> 00:51:49.000 that can truly usher in that age of unlimited 00:51:49.000 --> 00:51:52.070 abundance to improve, the human condition for 00:51:52.070 --> 00:51:55.750 all. It begins with a spiritual reawakening that 00:51:55.750 --> 00:51:58.489 I began first and foremost, and the rest of the 00:51:58.489 --> 00:52:00.949 psychedelics concede and foment within American 00:52:00.949 --> 00:52:03.750 society. To that end. And then I'll be quiet 00:52:03.750 --> 00:52:05.550 for the next little bit. No, you're good, man. 00:52:05.630 --> 00:52:09.789 We love listening to you. There is a six -part 00:52:09.789 --> 00:52:12.590 docuseries that will come out next year called 00:52:12.590 --> 00:52:18.099 Psychedelics And. And it is... a series of interviews 00:52:18.099 --> 00:52:20.719 with a cross -section of leaders across the United 00:52:20.719 --> 00:52:25.000 States where they speak about their own quest 00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:29.159 for meaning and how psychedelics has helped them 00:52:29.159 --> 00:52:32.340 understand that we are more than just these material 00:52:32.340 --> 00:52:35.099 beings that get up and go to work every day and 00:52:35.099 --> 00:52:37.420 are a productive economic unit, go home and repeat, 00:52:37.679 --> 00:52:39.920 that there is a much higher sense of purpose 00:52:39.920 --> 00:52:43.380 that we are here to serve. The plants themselves 00:52:43.380 --> 00:52:46.980 have the capacity to enlighten us at scale in 00:52:46.980 --> 00:52:49.719 a way that's absolutely necessary if we're going 00:52:49.719 --> 00:52:51.980 to make that age of abundance happen as those 00:52:51.980 --> 00:52:56.920 visionaries articulate and dream for. What I 00:52:56.920 --> 00:52:58.659 think is fascinating about the age that we're 00:52:58.659 --> 00:53:03.599 living in is that change comes very slowly, but 00:53:03.599 --> 00:53:05.679 it comes much faster when you have the kind of 00:53:05.679 --> 00:53:07.619 access to information that people have today. 00:53:08.280 --> 00:53:10.119 And I don't think this conversation was possible 00:53:10.119 --> 00:53:13.099 20 years ago. No, no way. And that's kind of 00:53:13.099 --> 00:53:15.280 amazing. No way. It's kind of amazing. And I 00:53:15.280 --> 00:53:17.480 don't think that there was a format for this 00:53:17.480 --> 00:53:21.320 conversation 20 years ago. This format has occurred 00:53:21.320 --> 00:53:23.760 because of the age of information, because of 00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:26.199 the Internet, and because there's no gatekeepers 00:53:26.199 --> 00:53:30.019 anymore. And because people have the choice to 00:53:30.019 --> 00:53:32.460 decide what they want to consume, what they want 00:53:32.460 --> 00:53:37.650 to listen to. To be able to be a part of that, 00:53:37.750 --> 00:53:40.309 to me, is an incredible privilege. And to be 00:53:40.309 --> 00:53:43.230 able to have you guys on and to have this conversation 00:53:43.230 --> 00:53:46.510 and to recognize that the reason why this is 00:53:46.510 --> 00:53:51.170 possible is because, for lack of a better term, 00:53:51.329 --> 00:53:54.050 the world's waking up. Yes, sir. It's just taking 00:53:54.050 --> 00:53:57.070 more time than we would like. But the world is 00:53:57.070 --> 00:54:01.489 waking up. And change happens. It just happens. 00:54:02.190 --> 00:54:06.809 People have to change their opinions, and that's 00:54:06.809 --> 00:54:09.090 very difficult because a lot of people identify 00:54:09.090 --> 00:54:12.789 with their opinions. Their opinions become a 00:54:12.789 --> 00:54:16.230 part of their ideology, and it's just very difficult 00:54:16.230 --> 00:54:19.150 to get people to change their ideology. They 00:54:19.150 --> 00:54:23.789 identify with this. It is them. And I've always 00:54:23.789 --> 00:54:26.309 tried to tell people the way I try to approach 00:54:26.309 --> 00:54:30.190 things, you are not your ideas. You are not your 00:54:30.190 --> 00:54:34.500 opinions. thoughts. And if you identify with 00:54:34.500 --> 00:54:37.420 them, you are trapped in them. And you will be 00:54:37.420 --> 00:54:39.599 held hostage by them. You will try to defend 00:54:39.599 --> 00:54:41.860 them, even if they don't make sense. You will 00:54:41.860 --> 00:54:44.940 try to ignore evidence that points you in a direction 00:54:44.940 --> 00:54:46.659 that's contrary to what your current belief system 00:54:46.659 --> 00:54:50.719 is. Don't be your opinions. Don't be your ideas. 00:54:51.059 --> 00:54:56.039 Just sit in them. Be consistent. Be honest. Have 00:54:56.039 --> 00:54:59.099 ethics and morals that you adhere to. But the 00:54:59.099 --> 00:55:02.530 ideas are just ideas. And if you're wrong, you 00:55:02.530 --> 00:55:05.489 should be proud to say you're wrong. It's a sign 00:55:05.489 --> 00:55:09.389 of growth. It's a sign of intelligence. And it's 00:55:09.389 --> 00:55:12.010 a sign of you being an honest human being who 00:55:12.010 --> 00:55:15.010 cares about the truth, not about being right. 00:55:15.289 --> 00:55:17.210 Because there's too many people in this world 00:55:17.210 --> 00:55:19.889 that they don't really have conversations. They 00:55:19.889 --> 00:55:23.989 have ideological sparring matches where they're 00:55:23.989 --> 00:55:27.630 just involved in these little intellectual tugs 00:55:27.630 --> 00:55:29.929 of war where they're just trying to be right. 00:55:30.730 --> 00:55:34.989 And this is not the time for that. It's just... 00:55:34.989 --> 00:55:42.789 So my going from hard no on criminal justice 00:55:42.789 --> 00:55:47.150 reform to literally a leader on criminal justice 00:55:47.150 --> 00:55:53.070 reform in the mid -2000s, my going from hard 00:55:53.070 --> 00:55:56.989 no on any psychedelic drugs that could be used 00:55:56.989 --> 00:56:02.099 in any way to now being... What I humorously 00:56:02.099 --> 00:56:05.619 refer to as the Johnny Appleseed of Ibogaine 00:56:05.619 --> 00:56:14.280 is to your point. Be open. Be willing to say 00:56:14.280 --> 00:56:16.980 you were wrong. I know my wife would like to 00:56:16.980 --> 00:56:21.739 hear me do that more often. But, hey, if you 00:56:21.739 --> 00:56:24.920 don't mind, I want to take a minute and talk 00:56:24.920 --> 00:56:31.289 about how. Far this movement has come. And Brian 00:56:31.289 --> 00:56:34.090 talked about Americans for Ibogaine and our ambassadors 00:56:34.090 --> 00:56:37.050 all across the country and the growth that we've 00:56:37.050 --> 00:56:39.670 seen in this. And I want to give you one example 00:56:39.670 --> 00:56:45.170 of to your point that five years ago, if you 00:56:45.170 --> 00:56:48.349 had had an institution that had its own reputation 00:56:48.349 --> 00:56:51.250 dealing with brain health and brain science and 00:56:51.250 --> 00:56:54.349 those kind of things, they would have just kind 00:56:54.349 --> 00:56:57.210 of. moved you off to the side and said, you know, 00:56:57.250 --> 00:57:01.309 no thanks. But the Center for Brain Health in 00:57:01.309 --> 00:57:04.829 Dallas, this is an extraordinary institution 00:57:04.829 --> 00:57:07.610 that's connected to the University of Texas, 00:57:07.769 --> 00:57:09.889 Dallas. Matter of fact, it's just next door to 00:57:09.889 --> 00:57:12.710 UT Southwestern, which is one of the great medical 00:57:12.710 --> 00:57:16.250 facilities in the world, UT Southwestern. And 00:57:16.250 --> 00:57:21.869 Dr. Sandy Chapman heads up. the Center for Brain 00:57:21.869 --> 00:57:25.570 Health. And they've done some great work. We 00:57:25.570 --> 00:57:28.769 went up and presented to her, I don't know, probably 00:57:28.769 --> 00:57:35.050 60 to 90 days ago. And there was another organization 00:57:35.050 --> 00:57:43.190 called Forward Intent. Just a beautiful young 00:57:43.190 --> 00:57:49.730 man and his wife, Alex Duran. and his wife, who 00:57:49.730 --> 00:57:54.449 have funded an effort. And what they're doing 00:57:54.449 --> 00:57:58.530 with their resources, they're sending, I think, 00:57:58.530 --> 00:58:03.690 250 individuals down to Mexico to both, I think, 00:58:03.710 --> 00:58:08.309 a facility called Transcend and to Ambio. And 00:58:08.309 --> 00:58:11.900 Ambio is that... facility that I've been to, 00:58:12.059 --> 00:58:16.460 Brian's been to, Marcus and Morgan Luttrell have 00:58:16.460 --> 00:58:19.320 been to. I think probably 2 ,000 more fighters 00:58:19.320 --> 00:58:22.639 have been down to Ambio now. Vets, underwrites 00:58:22.639 --> 00:58:28.960 them. And just as an aside, this has blown up 00:58:28.960 --> 00:58:32.320 so big. And I'm talking about... The Ibogaine 00:58:32.320 --> 00:58:35.300 effort, the education of Ibogaine, people, you 00:58:35.300 --> 00:58:38.380 know, there's some hope out there. And people 00:58:38.380 --> 00:58:41.340 are rushing to find where they can go to, you 00:58:41.340 --> 00:58:43.500 know, to treat the addiction that their loved 00:58:43.500 --> 00:58:45.920 one has or deal with their PTSD and what have 00:58:45.920 --> 00:58:50.849 you. And Ambio is just covered up. And I'm sure, 00:58:50.869 --> 00:58:54.909 you know, the other facilities are as well down 00:58:54.909 --> 00:58:58.230 there. The organization Vets, which is really 00:58:58.230 --> 00:59:02.570 where I came into this, Amber and Marcus Capone, 00:59:02.730 --> 00:59:06.550 they don't have any openings anymore. I mean, 00:59:06.550 --> 00:59:10.710 they are completely covered up. But, I mean, 00:59:10.730 --> 00:59:12.389 that's a good challenge. I'm glad we have that 00:59:12.389 --> 00:59:16.550 challenge. But my point is you've got an institution 00:59:16.550 --> 00:59:22.480 in Dallas, Texas. that just like the state is 00:59:22.480 --> 00:59:25.460 getting the signal, it's okay to be out there 00:59:25.460 --> 00:59:28.340 talking about this. It's okay to be a leader. 00:59:28.440 --> 00:59:31.440 It's okay to get out there and lead the charge. 00:59:31.539 --> 00:59:36.599 And I want to read to you what Dr. Chapman, because 00:59:36.599 --> 00:59:38.800 I asked her, I said, do you mind if I talk about 00:59:38.800 --> 00:59:41.179 what you all are doing? And she said, absolutely. 00:59:41.460 --> 00:59:43.699 And she said, Governor, great to talk with you 00:59:43.699 --> 00:59:46.059 yesterday. Here are some comments to guide you 00:59:46.059 --> 00:59:48.000 in how to discuss our existing collaboration. 00:59:49.800 --> 00:59:52.920 I'm excited to announce that we have begun a 00:59:52.920 --> 00:59:55.119 partnership with the Center for Brain Health, 00:59:55.280 --> 00:59:58.340 University of Texas at Dallas, Americans for 00:59:58.340 --> 01:00:02.460 Ibogaine, and Forward Intent to create the largest 01:00:02.460 --> 01:00:08.059 research study of Ibogaine to date focused on 01:00:08.059 --> 01:00:11.159 understanding its impact on the brain among the 01:00:11.159 --> 01:00:15.219 veteran community. Dr. Francesca Philby, an expert 01:00:15.219 --> 01:00:17.860 in cognitive and translational neuroscience, 01:00:18.440 --> 01:00:21.519 especially the use of neuroimaging to study brain 01:00:21.519 --> 01:00:24.519 behavior relationships, will lead the research. 01:00:24.780 --> 01:00:27.840 Our mission together is to move beyond the question 01:00:27.840 --> 01:00:31.719 of, does Ibogaine help? And instead, answer the 01:00:31.719 --> 01:00:34.079 more practical questions veterans and clinicians 01:00:34.079 --> 01:00:39.179 need. Number one, who benefits and why? How long 01:00:39.179 --> 01:00:42.179 do the benefits last? which aspects of daily 01:00:42.179 --> 01:00:45.800 life functioning, i .e., cognition, sleep, substance 01:00:45.800 --> 01:00:50.119 use, and overall well -being, improve or worsen 01:00:50.119 --> 01:00:53.360 following treatment, and how are these changes 01:00:53.360 --> 01:00:57.239 associated with brain alterations. The three 01:00:57.239 --> 01:01:00.030 -year study... We'll follow those treated with 01:01:00.030 --> 01:01:02.570 Ibogaine over the course of 18 months, which 01:01:02.570 --> 01:01:05.130 will allow us to create the first understanding 01:01:05.130 --> 01:01:08.989 of the sustained impacts of Ibogaine on the brain 01:01:08.989 --> 01:01:13.389 across various treatment regimes. We'll be diving 01:01:13.389 --> 01:01:16.449 more into this topic on November the 19th at 01:01:16.449 --> 01:01:19.429 the Center for Brain Health's Brain Health Presents 01:01:19.429 --> 01:01:24.110 speaker series to share more. By bringing world 01:01:24.110 --> 01:01:27.610 -class scientific rigor to this space, We aren't 01:01:27.610 --> 01:01:30.670 just studying a substance. We're creating a foundation 01:01:30.670 --> 01:01:34.510 of knowledge that will expand safe, informed 01:01:34.510 --> 01:01:40.750 access for those who need it most. That is what 01:01:40.750 --> 01:01:45.269 Americans for Ibogaine is really all about. Making 01:01:45.269 --> 01:01:49.289 that type of penetration, having that type of 01:01:49.289 --> 01:01:53.789 success, seeing what Brian and the other folks 01:01:53.789 --> 01:01:57.349 have created here in the state of Texas, I'm 01:01:57.349 --> 01:01:59.170 going to tell you something, brother. There is 01:01:59.170 --> 01:02:07.349 nothing that I've been involved with in my life 01:02:07.349 --> 01:02:12.090 that gives me more pleasure than to see what 01:02:12.090 --> 01:02:17.309 we're doing and knowing that there's a father 01:02:17.309 --> 01:02:26.639 out there, a mother out there. whose child's 01:02:26.639 --> 01:02:33.039 going to be saved. You mentioned dogma. People 01:02:33.039 --> 01:02:37.099 are, in particular in American society, there 01:02:37.099 --> 01:02:40.380 is a quest for identity. There is a quest for 01:02:40.380 --> 01:02:43.880 belonging. So much of what we see on social media 01:02:43.880 --> 01:02:47.260 and in broadcast media that is rage and anger 01:02:47.260 --> 01:02:50.139 and disaffection is tremendous loneliness and 01:02:50.139 --> 01:02:54.159 a tremendous lack of... of belonging to something 01:02:54.159 --> 01:02:57.699 and a tremendous amount of trauma related to 01:02:57.699 --> 01:03:01.840 never having had anything that resembles unconditional 01:03:01.840 --> 01:03:05.239 affection within the context of a safe and stable 01:03:05.239 --> 01:03:08.679 familial relationship. That's at scale within 01:03:08.679 --> 01:03:12.280 the United States. And the degree to which dogma 01:03:12.280 --> 01:03:15.860 can thwart evolution is 100 % right on. And I 01:03:15.860 --> 01:03:21.550 just use my own self as an example. I was a child 01:03:21.550 --> 01:03:24.989 of Reagan's America. I can remember I was about 01:03:24.989 --> 01:03:27.829 five years old when he and President Carter had 01:03:27.829 --> 01:03:30.789 their first presidential debate in 1980. President 01:03:30.789 --> 01:03:34.969 Reagan was like the mother goose to the gosling. 01:03:35.130 --> 01:03:38.880 He just imprinted on me. And whereas other young 01:03:38.880 --> 01:03:42.579 boys had pictures of Joe Montana and Michael 01:03:42.579 --> 01:03:44.659 Jordan and Michael Jackson all over their rooms, 01:03:44.760 --> 01:03:47.780 mine was wallpapered with Ronald Reagan. I was 01:03:47.780 --> 01:03:50.320 the president of the Teenage Republicans in high 01:03:50.320 --> 01:03:53.380 school. I wrote him fan letters all the time. 01:03:53.440 --> 01:03:55.599 He actually replied to one, and I put it in a 01:03:55.599 --> 01:03:59.000 frame in my room. It was written on my birthday. 01:03:59.820 --> 01:04:02.280 I was president of the college Republicans at 01:04:02.280 --> 01:04:04.920 George Mason University, and I mean I aim to 01:04:04.920 --> 01:04:08.480 be the king of conservative Republican conformity. 01:04:08.760 --> 01:04:12.320 That was my whole mission in life. And I used 01:04:12.320 --> 01:04:15.179 to joke that when people said, well, how did 01:04:15.179 --> 01:04:17.300 you get to this? And what do you think about 01:04:17.300 --> 01:04:19.000 the fact that you're talking about it and you're 01:04:19.000 --> 01:04:21.860 so zealous in your advocacy? I would kind of 01:04:21.860 --> 01:04:25.019 make a half statement and say, well, if 25 -year 01:04:25.019 --> 01:04:27.480 -old me could come and see 50 -year -old me. 01:04:27.980 --> 01:04:30.519 He would look and say, what in the world happened 01:04:30.519 --> 01:04:32.699 to you? And I would kind of yuck and yuck and 01:04:32.699 --> 01:04:36.639 laugh about it. Well, here's the answer. If 25 01:04:36.639 --> 01:04:39.619 -year -old me could come back and look at 50 01:04:39.619 --> 01:04:41.320 -year -old me and say, what happened to you? 01:04:42.639 --> 01:04:44.960 50 -year -old me would look right back and say, 01:04:45.119 --> 01:04:51.360 you happened to me. You happened to me. Your 01:04:51.360 --> 01:04:54.260 youthful sense of certainty. your belief that 01:04:54.260 --> 01:04:56.719 you had it all figured out, your belief that 01:04:56.719 --> 01:04:59.139 you had no further greater evolution to achieve, 01:04:59.300 --> 01:05:03.980 sir. You and your insolence of youth, you happened 01:05:03.980 --> 01:05:08.320 to me. One of the things that I have... so enjoyed 01:05:08.320 --> 01:05:11.619 learning about Governor Perry as he and I have 01:05:11.619 --> 01:05:14.280 built a relationship. The first time I really 01:05:14.280 --> 01:05:16.440 started following him was when he ran for president 01:05:16.440 --> 01:05:19.679 in 2012, and I believe that had he not had that 01:05:19.679 --> 01:05:22.000 back surgery, we would not have had a second 01:05:22.000 --> 01:05:24.280 Obama term. He would have won that race, and 01:05:24.280 --> 01:05:27.679 I think he would have won it handily. It's been 01:05:27.679 --> 01:05:29.980 remarkable to listen to this gentleman who has 01:05:29.980 --> 01:05:32.280 been so firmly identified with the conservative 01:05:32.280 --> 01:05:35.380 wing of the Republican Party be so willing to 01:05:35.380 --> 01:05:40.639 be curious. and to have that human value of curiosity 01:05:40.639 --> 01:05:43.340 and a willingness to hear and a willingness to 01:05:43.340 --> 01:05:46.019 know and a willingness to entertain that perhaps 01:05:46.019 --> 01:05:47.900 everything that he had been taught about this 01:05:47.900 --> 01:05:51.320 particular subject was not correct. Curiosity 01:05:51.320 --> 01:05:55.940 is a prime human value. And if you allow dogma 01:05:55.940 --> 01:05:59.260 to shut off your curiosity, you have hobbled 01:05:59.260 --> 01:06:01.920 yourself. And I think it was Muhammad Ali who 01:06:01.920 --> 01:06:06.699 said, If a 50 -year -old man thinks the exact 01:06:06.699 --> 01:06:09.420 same way as a 20 -year -old man, as he did when 01:06:09.420 --> 01:06:11.860 he was 20, he's wasted 30 years of his life. 01:06:12.000 --> 01:06:15.300 And that is dead on right. Dead on right. Yeah, 01:06:15.360 --> 01:06:19.260 I could attest to that. Curiosity is my number 01:06:19.260 --> 01:06:22.340 one attribute. It's the thing that's led me in 01:06:22.340 --> 01:06:25.090 life and everything I've ever done. It's just 01:06:25.090 --> 01:06:27.210 being open -minded and curious. I'm very fortunate 01:06:27.210 --> 01:06:29.269 is that I didn't think I had things figured out 01:06:29.269 --> 01:06:32.610 when I was 20 at all. I was sure that I was a 01:06:32.610 --> 01:06:36.730 moron. I was good at one thing, kicking people. 01:06:37.130 --> 01:06:42.309 That's it. And then from then, I realized that 01:06:42.309 --> 01:06:45.190 there's a lot to learn and that as much as I 01:06:45.190 --> 01:06:49.010 learned about martial arts, I could apply that 01:06:49.010 --> 01:06:51.949 sort of open -minded discipline. Because you 01:06:51.949 --> 01:06:56.150 have to be... open -minded to be good at martial 01:06:56.150 --> 01:06:58.170 arts because you have to be able to listen you 01:06:58.170 --> 01:07:01.170 can't think you already know you cannot you won't 01:07:01.170 --> 01:07:03.190 you won't grow and you won't get better you have 01:07:03.190 --> 01:07:06.710 to be listening to coaches you have to be listening 01:07:06.710 --> 01:07:08.650 to instructors you have to be listening to your 01:07:08.650 --> 01:07:11.309 teammates you have to listen to everybody if 01:07:11.309 --> 01:07:14.510 you don't listen if you have don't tell me those 01:07:14.510 --> 01:07:17.179 people don't go anywhere And I learned that very 01:07:17.179 --> 01:07:19.579 early on. It's very fortunate that I found that 01:07:19.579 --> 01:07:22.719 path because I've applied that to virtually everything 01:07:22.719 --> 01:07:25.800 that I've ever done in life. Instead of having 01:07:25.800 --> 01:07:27.980 this belief that I have things figured out. I 01:07:27.980 --> 01:07:30.860 mean I've certainly like been more sure than 01:07:30.860 --> 01:07:33.079 I should have been at many times in my life. 01:07:33.239 --> 01:07:37.280 But always willing to stop and go, maybe I'm 01:07:37.280 --> 01:07:41.980 wrong. And if it wasn't for this podcast, it 01:07:41.980 --> 01:07:43.840 would have never gotten to where it is because 01:07:43.840 --> 01:07:48.360 I've – fortunately been able to talk to brilliant 01:07:48.360 --> 01:07:54.480 people and you know I grew up in I lived in California 01:07:54.480 --> 01:07:58.519 for 26 years before that I you know I lived in 01:07:58.519 --> 01:08:02.199 Boston in New York I thought of people that the 01:08:02.199 --> 01:08:05.539 southern accent in particular right then this 01:08:05.539 --> 01:08:09.000 is a standard thing that a lot of people on the 01:08:09.000 --> 01:08:11.760 coasts have you hear people talk with a southern 01:08:11.760 --> 01:08:15.469 accent you think they're dumb And it's a terrible 01:08:15.469 --> 01:08:19.890 stereotype that actually came out because of 01:08:19.890 --> 01:08:22.329 hookworm parasites. I'm sure you're aware of 01:08:22.329 --> 01:08:24.729 that story. I'm not. You're not? Educate me. 01:08:27.039 --> 01:08:30.720 Stereotype of the lazy, dull -minded southerner 01:08:30.720 --> 01:08:34.380 came out of the fact that a large percentage 01:08:34.380 --> 01:08:38.380 of people in the South had contracted hookworms. 01:08:38.380 --> 01:08:42.060 From walking around barefoot and hookworm parasites 01:08:42.060 --> 01:08:46.979 will rob you of your intellectual capacity. They 01:08:46.979 --> 01:08:51.880 greatly diminish your ability to think and exhaust 01:08:51.880 --> 01:08:55.529 you. You get slower and, you know. in quotes, 01:08:55.630 --> 01:08:58.109 lazier, but you're really just infected with 01:08:58.109 --> 01:09:01.729 a parasite. And it's an enormous percentage of 01:09:01.729 --> 01:09:06.109 the population in the 1900s where we're infected 01:09:06.109 --> 01:09:08.909 with hookworm and in the South in particular, 01:09:09.069 --> 01:09:12.569 hot climates. And this is where this stereotype 01:09:12.569 --> 01:09:15.909 came from. When someone like you speaks with 01:09:15.909 --> 01:09:18.819 such insane recall. Like your recall is bananas. 01:09:19.079 --> 01:09:21.899 Like your recall of dates and names and times. 01:09:22.180 --> 01:09:24.619 I have a pretty good recall. It's nothing like 01:09:24.619 --> 01:09:27.739 yours. It's extraordinary. And I love when I 01:09:27.739 --> 01:09:29.960 meet someone who's brilliant who still has a 01:09:29.960 --> 01:09:33.520 southern accent. Because it's like. Like I said. 01:09:33.640 --> 01:09:36.720 Yeah. Forget all your stereotypes. Let them all 01:09:36.720 --> 01:09:38.739 go, baby. Because they're not real. It's not 01:09:38.739 --> 01:09:41.619 real. None of that is real. Individuals vary 01:09:41.619 --> 01:09:45.520 wildly. And, you know, I've met brilliant people. 01:09:46.239 --> 01:09:49.979 From coastal cities. And I've met fucking morons 01:09:49.979 --> 01:09:53.439 that talk like, you know, a person that you would 01:09:53.439 --> 01:09:55.859 assume would be a highly educated, intelligent 01:09:55.859 --> 01:09:58.939 person. But they're closed minded and foolish 01:09:58.939 --> 01:10:03.850 in their ways. And having had this. ability to 01:10:03.850 --> 01:10:05.430 have all these different conversations with different 01:10:05.430 --> 01:10:07.609 people. It's just like every time I have another 01:10:07.609 --> 01:10:10.590 conversation just expands my understanding just 01:10:10.590 --> 01:10:12.449 a little more and a little more and a little 01:10:12.449 --> 01:10:15.310 more. And I love it. And it's all out of curiosity. 01:10:15.409 --> 01:10:18.529 And I'm very happy that I've been able to make 01:10:18.529 --> 01:10:22.569 that curiosity infectious. My favorite cities, 01:10:22.770 --> 01:10:24.210 and I know we're getting off the beaten path 01:10:24.210 --> 01:10:25.930 here a little bit. I love to get off the beaten 01:10:25.930 --> 01:10:29.050 path. It's my favorite thing to do. My favorite 01:10:29.050 --> 01:10:32.130 cities in America are those that you can go to 01:10:32.130 --> 01:10:35.460 and not feel like you're in the country. Miami 01:10:35.460 --> 01:10:38.340 is fabulous. It's a wild place. You should have 01:10:38.340 --> 01:10:42.319 a passport to go to Miami. It is fabulous. And 01:10:42.319 --> 01:10:44.880 I remember the first time I went to New York 01:10:44.880 --> 01:10:47.399 City one time when I was about five years old. 01:10:47.460 --> 01:10:48.960 The only thing I could remember was the Empire 01:10:48.960 --> 01:10:51.020 State Building and some dude with purple hair 01:10:51.020 --> 01:10:54.060 sticking his tongue out at me. The next time 01:10:54.060 --> 01:10:57.939 was in 2019. And I'd always had kind of that 01:10:57.939 --> 01:11:00.939 stereotypical southerner's attitude, a bunch 01:11:00.939 --> 01:11:06.069 of, you know. haughty, rude, mean -acting Yankee 01:11:06.069 --> 01:11:09.890 people living in an obnoxious locale that would 01:11:09.890 --> 01:11:12.930 just be hell on earth to have to endure. So I 01:11:12.930 --> 01:11:15.090 had the opportunity to go and spend a day there 01:11:15.090 --> 01:11:19.050 and rolled into Grand Central Station on the 01:11:19.050 --> 01:11:22.149 railway from, I think it was New Haven, Connecticut. 01:11:22.409 --> 01:11:26.329 And just to watch the dimensions of the architecture 01:11:26.329 --> 01:11:28.949 as we rolled into the city. Crazy. The expansion 01:11:28.949 --> 01:11:32.550 of scale of this place. How old were you? Well, 01:11:32.569 --> 01:11:36.449 let's see. I was about to turn 44. I think I 01:11:36.449 --> 01:11:38.310 could hear the Beverly Hillbillies music playing 01:11:38.310 --> 01:11:40.069 in my head when I was going down through there. 01:11:41.000 --> 01:11:45.380 So we get off at Grand Central Station, and I 01:11:45.380 --> 01:11:48.979 mean, I walked all through that. I walked from 01:11:48.979 --> 01:11:52.119 Grand Central Station all the way down to the 01:11:52.119 --> 01:11:55.960 tip of where the World Trade Center was. It was 01:11:55.960 --> 01:12:01.560 New York City. is a monumental human accomplishment. 01:12:01.819 --> 01:12:04.800 When you can have the entire world within 300 01:12:04.800 --> 01:12:10.479 square miles, and it is a living affirmation 01:12:10.479 --> 01:12:13.140 of everything the United States is supposed to 01:12:13.140 --> 01:12:16.140 be as the last best hope of humankind on Earth, 01:12:16.239 --> 01:12:19.659 just to be in that place. Anytime I've gone back 01:12:19.659 --> 01:12:23.579 since, I mean the minute that I go to get the 01:12:23.579 --> 01:12:26.300 Uber at LaGuardia Airport and I see that skyline, 01:12:26.460 --> 01:12:28.760 I mean my heart just starts racing, racing, racing. 01:12:28.779 --> 01:12:31.020 I would have never thought that I would just 01:12:31.020 --> 01:12:33.359 fall in love with New York City. But it is fabulous. 01:12:33.479 --> 01:12:37.760 San Francisco is the same way. There are so many 01:12:37.760 --> 01:12:40.859 wonderful places in the United States where you 01:12:40.859 --> 01:12:42.720 wouldn't think that somebody necessarily who 01:12:42.720 --> 01:12:47.239 sounded like me would endorse. One of the best 01:12:47.239 --> 01:12:50.819 things that I have done is stop watching television 01:12:50.819 --> 01:12:54.579 news. The last time I watched television news 01:12:54.579 --> 01:12:57.079 was after the first Obama press conference in 01:12:57.079 --> 01:13:01.439 January of 2009, and I cut it off. Wow. Aside 01:13:01.439 --> 01:13:03.560 from presidential debates and election returns, 01:13:03.779 --> 01:13:06.920 I've never turned it back on. I shouldn't tell 01:13:06.920 --> 01:13:11.079 this. The number of times I've left my front 01:13:11.079 --> 01:13:14.039 door wide open, the garage door open in my neighborhood, 01:13:14.199 --> 01:13:17.729 and nothing has happened. is remarkable. This 01:13:17.729 --> 01:13:22.449 country, in terms of her people, is as much like 01:13:22.449 --> 01:13:28.529 it was back in 1950 as it has ever been. The 01:13:28.529 --> 01:13:31.550 complexion is a little different. We've got a 01:13:31.550 --> 01:13:35.170 lot more diversity now than we've ever had. But 01:13:35.170 --> 01:13:38.609 once you take that blinder of mass media mayhem 01:13:38.609 --> 01:13:41.050 and all this fabricated division that is purposely 01:13:41.050 --> 01:13:43.869 put out there to keep us divided. To keep us 01:13:43.869 --> 01:13:48.760 tuning in. Tune it in and segregate it. Once 01:13:48.760 --> 01:13:51.300 you take yourself out of it and you just start 01:13:51.300 --> 01:13:54.119 having a conversation, next time someone gets 01:13:54.119 --> 01:13:57.180 into an Uber with someone who doesn't have English 01:13:57.180 --> 01:13:59.439 as a sacred language, strike up a conversation. 01:13:59.859 --> 01:14:02.600 Ask them, how did you come to the United States? 01:14:02.840 --> 01:14:06.100 What brought you here? And your heart is going 01:14:06.100 --> 01:14:10.109 to fill with just the... unbelievable amount 01:14:10.109 --> 01:14:15.369 of pride and love to hear those accents from 01:14:15.369 --> 01:14:19.170 the Middle East and from Africa speak about this 01:14:19.170 --> 01:14:22.489 country in ways that take us right back to 1776. 01:14:22.810 --> 01:14:26.510 It's a fabulous place, and I'm able to say so 01:14:26.510 --> 01:14:30.729 much of this because of what the plants have 01:14:30.729 --> 01:14:34.380 helped clarify. by way of that universal human 01:14:34.380 --> 01:14:37.220 divinity that we all share, that this country 01:14:37.220 --> 01:14:40.819 is the cradle to protect and to honor, which 01:14:40.819 --> 01:14:43.220 is what makes this mission so incredibly important. 01:14:43.640 --> 01:14:45.600 And I do want to, oh, I'm sorry. No, go ahead, 01:14:45.619 --> 01:14:48.060 please. There's two people that I left off of 01:14:48.060 --> 01:14:49.920 our ambassador program that I think are really 01:14:49.920 --> 01:14:53.239 showstoppers I want to mention. One is a gentleman 01:14:53.239 --> 01:14:57.319 by the name of Rear Admiral Jim Hancock. This 01:14:57.319 --> 01:14:59.699 gentleman received Ibogaine treatment for his 01:14:59.699 --> 01:15:03.680 wounds of war. He was the Navy Medical Corps 01:15:03.680 --> 01:15:06.880 Chief and was the medical officer for the United 01:15:06.880 --> 01:15:10.159 States Marine Corps. One of our other ambassadors 01:15:10.159 --> 01:15:12.819 is a gentleman by the name of General Glenn Curtis. 01:15:13.039 --> 01:15:16.640 He served in both Gulf Wars. He served in Afghanistan. 01:15:16.720 --> 01:15:20.020 His most recent stint of service was as the commanding 01:15:20.020 --> 01:15:22.920 general for the Louisiana National Guard. And 01:15:22.920 --> 01:15:25.199 he is one of our prime spokespeople for legislation 01:15:25.199 --> 01:15:27.979 that's pending in Louisiana right now to join 01:15:27.979 --> 01:15:30.979 Texas as a partner in this Ibogaine trial. That's 01:15:30.979 --> 01:15:33.420 fantastic. Please say what you were going to 01:15:33.420 --> 01:15:35.779 because I'm curious. I don't even remember. Hey, 01:15:35.880 --> 01:15:37.579 well, I remember what I wanted to talk about. 01:15:37.720 --> 01:15:43.140 And I want to get us back on the track that we 01:15:43.140 --> 01:15:47.939 were talking about. You know, Brian's done a 01:15:47.939 --> 01:15:52.020 great job to discuss the spiritual aspect of 01:15:52.020 --> 01:15:54.319 the medicine and what I mean. That's incredibly 01:15:54.319 --> 01:15:56.659 important. Don't get me wrong on that at all. 01:15:57.460 --> 01:16:03.640 But what brought me personally to the medicine? 01:16:04.370 --> 01:16:07.270 Obviously, my relationship with Marcus and Morgan 01:16:07.270 --> 01:16:09.850 and what have you. And then as I studied it, 01:16:09.949 --> 01:16:15.569 I'm like, if you're really going to be a legitimate 01:16:15.569 --> 01:16:19.689 spokesperson for this, if you're going to put 01:16:19.689 --> 01:16:22.930 your reputation out there, you need to be treated. 01:16:23.369 --> 01:16:27.850 You need to go through the treatment. And I'm 01:16:27.850 --> 01:16:30.689 going to get to you at the end of this conversation, 01:16:30.810 --> 01:16:35.829 but I want to set this up, if I may. And in 2023, 01:16:36.270 --> 01:16:38.630 if my memory serves me correct, this is the same 01:16:38.630 --> 01:16:42.529 time that Nolan Williams was heading up the 30 01:16:42.529 --> 01:16:45.909 veteran study that Stanford was going to oversee. 01:16:46.010 --> 01:16:49.850 Kind of the early days, if you will, of some 01:16:49.850 --> 01:16:54.920 clinical trial type effort to. have the data, 01:16:55.000 --> 01:16:58.600 to have the background, some early day efforts 01:16:58.600 --> 01:17:01.359 to start educating the public about that is how 01:17:01.359 --> 01:17:04.380 I do this. They had 30 vets. I think they were 01:17:04.380 --> 01:17:09.739 between the ages of like 22 and 42. They all 01:17:09.739 --> 01:17:19.210 had moderate to severe PTSD. They were Some of 01:17:19.210 --> 01:17:23.210 them addicted to alcohol. You know, they were 01:17:23.210 --> 01:17:28.189 pretty classic veteran population that had some 01:17:28.189 --> 01:17:35.250 real challenges. They were sent to Stanford, 01:17:35.350 --> 01:17:40.050 and they did baseline functional MRIs. And then 01:17:40.050 --> 01:17:43.670 they were sent down to Ambio, just south of Tijuana, 01:17:43.970 --> 01:17:49.890 where they were given the treatment. And then 01:17:49.890 --> 01:17:54.210 that last, I think, about a four -day treatment 01:17:54.210 --> 01:18:00.770 protocol. You go down, work your way in. Tuesday, 01:18:00.970 --> 01:18:04.250 you get in preparation. Tuesday evening, you 01:18:04.250 --> 01:18:07.890 get the compound. Wednesday is a recovery day. 01:18:08.189 --> 01:18:11.850 Thursday, there's a 5 -MeO -DMT treatment. And 01:18:11.850 --> 01:18:16.890 then you go home. They went back to Stanford. 01:18:18.739 --> 01:18:22.859 after five days after the treatment and had follow 01:18:22.859 --> 01:18:26.380 -up MRIs. I think they had an MRI at 30 days 01:18:26.380 --> 01:18:31.279 and then a functional MRI at six months. So there 01:18:31.279 --> 01:18:36.939 was a good piece of data there to look at. Just 01:18:36.939 --> 01:18:43.619 stunningly good results. And the results, I think 01:18:43.619 --> 01:18:49.590 there was 87 % of them who now better than two 01:18:49.590 --> 01:18:55.130 years later, but that have zero PTSD. The addictions 01:18:55.130 --> 01:18:58.069 were at that level of reduction that we talked 01:18:58.069 --> 01:19:02.750 about in the high 80 percentiles. I mean, we've 01:19:02.750 --> 01:19:04.569 seen all of this data before. This is nothing 01:19:04.569 --> 01:19:07.970 new. But the reason I share that with you is 01:19:07.970 --> 01:19:13.130 that I basically went down and followed the same 01:19:13.130 --> 01:19:16.789 protocol. I wasn't part of the clinical trial. 01:19:17.690 --> 01:19:20.149 And I only wanted to be treated with Ibogaine. 01:19:20.189 --> 01:19:23.149 I did not want to take the 5 -MeO -DMT. So what 01:19:23.149 --> 01:19:25.770 I was looking at, and I was interested in this 01:19:25.770 --> 01:19:28.949 from the brain regenerative side of it. I had 01:19:28.949 --> 01:19:31.229 about as bucolic a life as you've ever had. I 01:19:31.229 --> 01:19:35.210 never had anybody. mistreat me of anything that 01:19:35.210 --> 01:19:37.270 you could even get close to calling traumatic 01:19:37.270 --> 01:19:40.890 effect. I had no trauma in my life. I grew up 01:19:40.890 --> 01:19:43.810 on a dry land cotton farm, you know, 60 miles 01:19:43.810 --> 01:19:46.590 from Abilene, Texas, 16 miles from closest place 01:19:46.590 --> 01:19:49.909 that had a post office in a part of Texas that 01:19:49.909 --> 01:19:53.010 was just a lovely, wonderful, loving place. My 01:19:53.010 --> 01:19:55.689 mom and dad loved me and I knew it. And, you 01:19:55.689 --> 01:19:58.770 know, my scout master and my principal and my... 01:19:59.039 --> 01:20:01.539 superintendent of my Sunday school class, who, 01:20:01.619 --> 01:20:03.859 by the way, were all the same person. And he 01:20:03.859 --> 01:20:07.100 drove the bus and was a football coach. But I 01:20:07.100 --> 01:20:13.960 had a as non -traumatic growing up period as 01:20:13.960 --> 01:20:22.340 you can imagine. So I was concussed, severely 01:20:22.340 --> 01:20:26.840 concussed three times, twice in athletic events. 01:20:26.840 --> 01:20:29.000 And I'm talking about knocked out. completely 01:20:29.000 --> 01:20:34.619 for over one minute. And those are severe concussions. 01:20:35.479 --> 01:20:37.979 Two times athletic events, one time unloading 01:20:37.979 --> 01:20:41.600 horses, knocked completely out. So what I know 01:20:41.600 --> 01:20:47.159 now is that as I got to pilot training and I 01:20:47.159 --> 01:20:49.739 started noticing that I was having trouble sleeping 01:20:49.739 --> 01:20:55.439 and that this thing that I understood later in 01:20:55.439 --> 01:20:59.640 life was anxiety. had crept into my life. So 01:20:59.640 --> 01:21:02.119 I had, I'm going to put it in the mild category, 01:21:02.439 --> 01:21:12.140 anxiety and insomnia. I went into a very odd 01:21:12.140 --> 01:21:14.859 line of work in politics to have those two kind 01:21:14.859 --> 01:21:20.399 of things. And I matched them rather well. Most 01:21:20.399 --> 01:21:22.359 people didn't know I had that. My wife did. But 01:21:22.359 --> 01:21:25.760 other than that, even my senior staff and my 01:21:27.029 --> 01:21:29.270 My offices through the year, agriculture commissioner, 01:21:29.489 --> 01:21:31.869 lieutenant governor, governor, they did not know 01:21:31.869 --> 01:21:36.529 that I had this challenge of maybe sleeping three 01:21:36.529 --> 01:21:42.050 and a half, four hours a night, being anxious 01:21:42.050 --> 01:21:46.609 at times to the point of being never dysfunctional. 01:21:48.250 --> 01:21:51.229 But from my perspective, probably some people 01:21:51.229 --> 01:21:52.569 out there in the political world said, hell, 01:21:52.569 --> 01:21:53.949 Perry, you were dysfunctional the whole damn 01:21:53.949 --> 01:21:55.750 time. What are you talking about? Anyway, beside 01:21:55.750 --> 01:22:05.500 the point. I had the treatment. I had the brain 01:22:05.500 --> 01:22:09.000 scan going in. I had the brain scan a week later, 01:22:09.060 --> 01:22:15.199 and I had the brain scan at six months. The first 01:22:15.199 --> 01:22:21.039 brain scan, they said, look, your brain looks 01:22:21.039 --> 01:22:23.180 pretty good for a 73 -year -old guy. He said, 01:22:23.260 --> 01:22:26.210 you're actually in. You're in pretty good shape. 01:22:26.229 --> 01:22:28.069 You don't have a lot of atrophy. You got some 01:22:28.069 --> 01:22:31.729 mild atrophy, but your brain looks pretty good. 01:22:34.510 --> 01:22:43.810 The week after scan showed a 27 % increase in 01:22:43.810 --> 01:22:47.270 the prefrontal cortex of my brain. That's where 01:22:47.270 --> 01:22:50.890 your focus, your concentration, your emotions 01:22:50.890 --> 01:22:55.739 reside. had a 27 % increase in that prefrontal 01:22:55.739 --> 01:23:05.560 cortex activity. My six -month scan, I have a 01:23:05.560 --> 01:23:08.220 dear friend who's a neurosurgeon from Tyler, 01:23:08.380 --> 01:23:18.560 Dr. Charlie Gordon, who is a 40 -plus year neurosurgeon. 01:23:19.189 --> 01:23:21.489 Spying expert. Looked at lots of brain scans. 01:23:24.329 --> 01:23:28.090 A respectful skeptic of this. When I told him 01:23:28.090 --> 01:23:31.310 I was going to be treated with this compound 01:23:31.310 --> 01:23:33.989 called Ibogaine, this psychoactive compound, 01:23:34.409 --> 01:23:39.229 he was recoiled a little bit. He was like, you 01:23:39.229 --> 01:23:46.329 need to be really careful with that. He has now 01:23:46.329 --> 01:23:50.819 gone from being respectful. skeptic to looking 01:23:50.819 --> 01:23:53.420 at the data from the clinical trial that was 01:23:53.420 --> 01:23:57.819 done at Stanford, talking to a fairly good number 01:23:57.819 --> 01:24:00.880 of the veterans that went through that trial, 01:24:01.020 --> 01:24:03.579 talking to Dr. Williams, talking to other specialists 01:24:03.579 --> 01:24:07.380 at Stanford. And he has gone from respectful 01:24:07.380 --> 01:24:13.720 skeptic to a full -on believer in this medicine. 01:24:13.880 --> 01:24:18.609 I mean, an absolute supporter that this medicine 01:24:18.609 --> 01:24:22.689 does what it says it does. It heals people of 01:24:22.689 --> 01:24:28.130 addictions. It heals from PTSD. This medicine 01:24:28.130 --> 01:24:30.609 does what it does. And we're driving back from 01:24:30.609 --> 01:24:33.829 the airport that day after the six -month scan. 01:24:34.569 --> 01:24:37.109 He had looked at it as it came off of the machine. 01:24:39.130 --> 01:24:42.310 And he said, Governor, I'm not going to blow 01:24:42.310 --> 01:24:50.829 smoke up your dress. Your atrophy is gone. He 01:24:50.829 --> 01:24:54.710 said, I have no idea why this has happened, but 01:24:54.710 --> 01:24:59.710 he said the difference between your initial baseline 01:24:59.710 --> 01:25:06.569 scan and six months later, clearly the atrophy 01:25:06.569 --> 01:25:08.649 in your brain is gone. He said your brain looks 01:25:08.649 --> 01:25:13.430 like a 40 -year -old. Now, the reason I share 01:25:13.430 --> 01:25:16.479 that story with you. is because, number one, 01:25:16.560 --> 01:25:21.939 that's partly what drives me about this, is that 01:25:21.939 --> 01:25:24.460 there is a regenerative aspect of this medicine 01:25:24.460 --> 01:25:29.140 that we don't really understand yet. And if it 01:25:29.140 --> 01:25:31.619 does what we think it's going to do, and that's 01:25:31.619 --> 01:25:33.420 the reason these clinical trials are just so 01:25:33.420 --> 01:25:35.520 stunningly important. That's the reason what 01:25:35.520 --> 01:25:38.119 the Center for Brain Health and what they're 01:25:38.119 --> 01:25:39.880 going to be doing and the data they're going 01:25:39.880 --> 01:25:42.939 to be collecting. I'm convinced of what this 01:25:42.939 --> 01:25:47.819 data is going to show. But for all of those individuals 01:25:47.819 --> 01:25:50.359 out there who don't have substance abuse problems, 01:25:50.520 --> 01:25:53.979 who weren't traumatized as a child, but who have 01:25:53.979 --> 01:25:58.060 been concussed, and we know that that damage 01:25:58.060 --> 01:26:03.640 is out there and that the cumulative side, Robert 01:26:03.640 --> 01:26:06.659 Gallery, that great professional football player 01:26:06.659 --> 01:26:10.680 who had really bad CTE, and he will tell you 01:26:10.680 --> 01:26:14.659 today this medicine saved his life. My question 01:26:14.659 --> 01:26:19.939 for you, Joe Rogan, is how many times do you 01:26:19.939 --> 01:26:27.680 think you've been concussed in life? I don't 01:26:27.680 --> 01:26:32.720 know. I have no idea. Dozens. Yeah, I'd have 01:26:32.720 --> 01:26:39.119 to go back and think about times. Most of it 01:26:39.119 --> 01:26:44.229 was from sparring or a few from fights. But if 01:26:44.229 --> 01:26:46.810 we think about that, if there is this cumulative 01:26:46.810 --> 01:26:55.130 effect, are you – how old are you now? 58. Would 01:26:55.130 --> 01:26:59.189 Joe Rogan be willing to say, you know what? I've 01:26:59.189 --> 01:27:03.090 seen enough. I believe that this medicine does 01:27:03.090 --> 01:27:08.029 what you say it will do. And for a person like 01:27:08.029 --> 01:27:13.659 me, that it could be incredibly helpful. to my 01:27:13.659 --> 01:27:20.720 long -term plan of living a long and healthy 01:27:20.720 --> 01:27:26.020 and engaged life, that Joe Rogan would go and 01:27:26.020 --> 01:27:28.399 be treated with Ibogaine. Yeah, I would definitely 01:27:28.399 --> 01:27:31.859 do it. I'm very fascinated by it. I mean, I've 01:27:31.859 --> 01:27:33.920 never heard anybody say, I wish I didn't do it. 01:27:35.340 --> 01:27:38.600 He mentioned his brain scans post -treatment. 01:27:39.399 --> 01:27:41.899 A couple of weeks ago, while I was at that... 01:27:42.060 --> 01:27:45.479 One Earth Gathering, I met a lady whom I will 01:27:45.479 --> 01:27:48.380 call Lonnie, and she had just returned from a 01:27:48.380 --> 01:27:53.939 navigating treatment in November of 25. She related 01:27:53.939 --> 01:27:57.880 an early life of just ungodly physical abuse 01:27:57.880 --> 01:28:00.720 by her father, who was addicted to OxyContin. 01:28:01.390 --> 01:28:03.970 You know, we began this conversation about the 01:28:03.970 --> 01:28:06.069 realities of the opioid epidemic in America. 01:28:06.369 --> 01:28:09.649 While death is the most terminal outcome as measured 01:28:09.649 --> 01:28:12.729 down about 700 ,000 Americans, there is a much 01:28:12.729 --> 01:28:18.010 broader web of hardcore travesty that exists 01:28:18.010 --> 01:28:21.470 around each of those death outcomes. And Lonnie 01:28:21.470 --> 01:28:25.590 experienced that. She had multiple concussions 01:28:25.590 --> 01:28:28.619 from her own father. Like many individuals who 01:28:28.619 --> 01:28:31.220 experience trauma of this nature, she developed 01:28:31.220 --> 01:28:33.600 her own drug addiction. She was in and out of 01:28:33.600 --> 01:28:35.619 jail. She was homeless at a different point in 01:28:35.619 --> 01:28:39.359 time. She managed to get recovered. She had a 01:28:39.359 --> 01:28:41.180 separate traumatic brain injury that was fairly 01:28:41.180 --> 01:28:46.060 severe in 2018. And then she was diagnosed with 01:28:46.060 --> 01:28:50.300 what I believe is called young -onset Parkinson's, 01:28:50.300 --> 01:28:54.920 Parkinson's diagnosis that is pre -age 50. Her 01:28:54.920 --> 01:28:57.220 Parkinson's had progressed to the point to where 01:28:57.220 --> 01:29:00.140 she could not write because of the tremulousness 01:29:00.140 --> 01:29:04.560 in her hands. So when I saw her two weeks ago 01:29:04.560 --> 01:29:08.760 and she introduced herself, she had all of the 01:29:08.760 --> 01:29:11.220 appearance and affect of a perfectly healthy 01:29:11.220 --> 01:29:13.960 human being. It was only after we sat down and 01:29:13.960 --> 01:29:16.819 she explained what her experience had been and 01:29:16.819 --> 01:29:20.100 where she was at now that the Ibogaine disclosure 01:29:20.100 --> 01:29:24.079 was made. Her hand was just as calm as mine. 01:29:24.560 --> 01:29:27.159 And she said that it had been essentially three 01:29:27.159 --> 01:29:30.800 months and that she had been able to resume a 01:29:30.800 --> 01:29:32.640 normal life and that her mind felt restored. 01:29:32.899 --> 01:29:35.920 Now, based on the responses we got after our 01:29:35.920 --> 01:29:38.159 first interview with you, I want to be very careful 01:29:38.159 --> 01:29:43.039 here. This is truly the edge of science. And 01:29:43.039 --> 01:29:47.439 there is much unknown about the variety of Parkinson's 01:29:47.439 --> 01:29:49.619 that this can treat. There's some suggestion 01:29:49.619 --> 01:29:54.300 that... It is better for those who have a genetic 01:29:54.300 --> 01:29:57.159 predisposition for the disease than it is for 01:29:57.159 --> 01:29:59.300 those who contract Parkinson's as the result 01:29:59.300 --> 01:30:01.859 of environmental exposure. Ibogaine does not 01:30:01.859 --> 01:30:05.159 appear to have any impact on Parkinson's developed 01:30:05.159 --> 01:30:08.520 as a result of exposure to environmental toxin. 01:30:08.619 --> 01:30:11.180 The stage of the disease at which you catch it 01:30:11.180 --> 01:30:14.039 also appears to make a big difference. The earlier, 01:30:14.260 --> 01:30:17.640 the better. It has also been asserted that Ibogaine 01:30:17.640 --> 01:30:20.819 does not cure Parkinson's. What it does is slows 01:30:20.819 --> 01:30:24.880 disease progression and creates, for some, a 01:30:24.880 --> 01:30:27.460 broad window of opportunity for the restoration 01:30:27.460 --> 01:30:29.779 of function that can dramatically improve the 01:30:29.779 --> 01:30:32.279 quality of life. Now, I'm just giving a number 01:30:32.279 --> 01:30:36.380 of qualifiers about its impact and efficacy on 01:30:36.380 --> 01:30:38.380 one individual, but think about what we just 01:30:38.380 --> 01:30:41.520 said here. This is a woman who was diagnosed 01:30:41.520 --> 01:30:44.220 with young -onset Parkinson's. She had lost the 01:30:44.220 --> 01:30:46.300 ability to write because of the tremulousness 01:30:46.300 --> 01:30:48.680 in her hands. She's four months out from her 01:30:48.680 --> 01:30:50.619 treatment, and she's been able to resume her 01:30:50.619 --> 01:30:52.800 full normal life with a complete restoration 01:30:52.800 --> 01:30:56.699 of function. If we could get a COVID vaccine 01:30:56.699 --> 01:31:02.579 out in nine months, there is no reason why. with 01:31:02.579 --> 01:31:05.000 the focused effort of Texas and the other states 01:31:05.000 --> 01:31:08.279 we'll discuss here momentarily that we cannot 01:31:08.279 --> 01:31:11.260 achieve the moonshot of our time within three 01:31:11.260 --> 01:31:15.149 years or less and that is the completion. of 01:31:15.149 --> 01:31:18.789 an Ibogaine medication that can be fully integrated 01:31:18.789 --> 01:31:22.250 into the U .S. healthcare system and made just 01:31:22.250 --> 01:31:25.430 as universally available as every ineffective 01:31:25.430 --> 01:31:28.250 opioid -based treatment that we currently deploy 01:31:28.250 --> 01:31:32.329 through the medical system at a cost of $700 01:31:32.329 --> 01:31:36.689 ,000 per patient. Sponsored by Indivior, which 01:31:36.689 --> 01:31:38.609 is one of the chief pharmaceutical developers 01:31:38.609 --> 01:31:42.710 of everything that we have that fails 75 % of 01:31:42.710 --> 01:31:49.090 the time. Yeah, I mean, if we could do it, it 01:31:49.090 --> 01:31:51.649 would be pretty extraordinary. And if it is done, 01:31:51.890 --> 01:31:55.609 I really do believe that it would have a complete 01:31:55.609 --> 01:31:59.229 changing of society. When people have no hope 01:31:59.229 --> 01:32:00.810 and there's nothing, and then all of a sudden 01:32:00.810 --> 01:32:02.210 there's something that comes along that you do 01:32:02.210 --> 01:32:05.409 it once and it's an 85 % effective rate, and 01:32:05.409 --> 01:32:08.289 you do it twice and it's in the high 90s. I mean, 01:32:08.329 --> 01:32:12.710 how many people are out there struggling with 01:32:12.710 --> 01:32:15.390 something? whether it's alcoholism, whether it's 01:32:15.390 --> 01:32:18.109 obesity, whether it's, you know, that's another 01:32:18.109 --> 01:32:20.770 thing. There's people that are calming themselves 01:32:20.770 --> 01:32:24.409 with food, right? And it's masking. That's probably 01:32:24.409 --> 01:32:26.989 a sugar addiction, don't you think? I mean, from 01:32:26.989 --> 01:32:29.289 the standpoint of... It is, but for a lot of 01:32:29.289 --> 01:32:32.270 people, there's something else. You know, for 01:32:32.270 --> 01:32:34.149 some people, it's sexual abuse when they're younger 01:32:34.149 --> 01:32:39.369 and they eat. Interesting. It's an addiction. 01:32:40.159 --> 01:32:42.880 And it's not just a physical addiction. It's 01:32:42.880 --> 01:32:44.920 a psychological addiction. I brought up gambling 01:32:44.920 --> 01:32:46.340 because I know a lot of people that are addicted 01:32:46.340 --> 01:32:48.319 to gambling. Pornography. Yeah, pornography. 01:32:48.619 --> 01:32:51.670 Sure. There's a lot of things. The twin fashion 01:32:51.670 --> 01:32:53.909 models we mentioned are ones who had developed 01:32:53.909 --> 01:32:56.829 those eating disorders, one of which was a compulsive 01:32:56.829 --> 01:32:59.350 eater as a result of that childhood sexual abuse. 01:32:59.609 --> 01:33:02.390 And Ibogaine was the treatment of last resort, 01:33:02.550 --> 01:33:05.609 not the first option. And their own recovery 01:33:05.609 --> 01:33:07.729 story, which can be found on the Americans for 01:33:07.729 --> 01:33:11.210 Ibogaine website, is truly extraordinary. And 01:33:11.210 --> 01:33:14.189 speaking of extraordinary, when we came in here 01:33:14.189 --> 01:33:19.409 to push Texas, our belief was and still is. and 01:33:19.409 --> 01:33:22.810 is now playing out at scale, that if Texas did 01:33:22.810 --> 01:33:25.829 this, it would be joined by a number of other 01:33:25.829 --> 01:33:30.250 states who are no longer willing to sit and wait 01:33:30.250 --> 01:33:35.810 on an inefficient, often incompetent, and also 01:33:35.810 --> 01:33:39.890 incompetently corrupt federal bureaucracy that 01:33:39.890 --> 01:33:42.970 will not move in response to the genuine needs 01:33:42.970 --> 01:33:45.010 of the American people at the pace that it needs 01:33:45.010 --> 01:33:49.300 to. There are a variety. of well -intentioned 01:33:49.300 --> 01:33:51.319 reformers within the current administration, 01:33:51.880 --> 01:33:56.199 Secretary Kennedy, Secretary Collins, and others 01:33:56.199 --> 01:33:59.279 who have voiced their support for the advancement 01:33:59.279 --> 01:34:01.279 of plant medicine as breakthrough treatments 01:34:01.279 --> 01:34:04.640 primarily for U .S. warfighters, but also for 01:34:04.640 --> 01:34:07.180 other members of our society for whom these medications 01:34:07.180 --> 01:34:10.859 could help. We believe that these individuals 01:34:10.859 --> 01:34:14.859 are stymied by two realities. The first reality 01:34:14.859 --> 01:34:18.439 is the Byzantine complexity of the federal bureaucracy, 01:34:18.800 --> 01:34:21.779 the degree to which it has been compromised by 01:34:21.779 --> 01:34:25.180 the institutional capture of much of its functioning 01:34:25.180 --> 01:34:28.640 by companies that make money on keeping problems 01:34:28.640 --> 01:34:32.119 alive. We think they're probably also stymied 01:34:32.119 --> 01:34:35.060 by perhaps some other political cross -currents 01:34:35.060 --> 01:34:37.909 within the administration that view psychedelics 01:34:37.909 --> 01:34:40.449 with skepticism, and that are therefore willing 01:34:40.449 --> 01:34:42.829 to be indiscriminate in their resistance to the 01:34:42.829 --> 01:34:45.649 advancement of any of them, when in fact the 01:34:45.649 --> 01:34:48.970 advancement of this one is of existential critical 01:34:48.970 --> 01:34:52.250 importance as a breakthrough treatment for millions 01:34:52.250 --> 01:34:56.189 of Americans who need it now. And so to that 01:34:56.189 --> 01:34:59.729 end, Americans for Ibogaine following the Texas 01:34:59.729 --> 01:35:03.739 success. convened a gathering of 200 people in 01:35:03.739 --> 01:35:07.180 Aspen, Colorado in November of last year. These 01:35:07.180 --> 01:35:09.659 individuals were invited, appointed, and elected 01:35:09.659 --> 01:35:12.439 state officials from 22 individual states and 01:35:12.439 --> 01:35:14.699 aligned citizens of influence who would be willing, 01:35:14.859 --> 01:35:17.979 as the Texans were here, to get behind efforts 01:35:17.979 --> 01:35:22.199 in state legislatures to create a partnership 01:35:22.199 --> 01:35:26.789 with Texas that by end result will form. the 01:35:26.789 --> 01:35:29.510 unstoppable external force through the states 01:35:29.510 --> 01:35:31.609 that can crash through the federal wall using 01:35:31.609 --> 01:35:34.289 not just their resources, but their political 01:35:34.289 --> 01:35:38.069 influence to execute one unified FDA drug development 01:35:38.069 --> 01:35:40.590 trial and to force the federal government to 01:35:40.590 --> 01:35:42.750 be responsive to everything that is required 01:35:42.750 --> 01:35:46.449 to ensure it is successful. So as we sit here 01:35:46.449 --> 01:35:49.529 today, we have been working with elected officials 01:35:49.529 --> 01:35:55.470 in Alabama, Georgia, Idaho, Maryland, Michigan. 01:35:55.930 --> 01:35:59.470 New Hampshire, South Carolina, Vermont, Ohio, 01:35:59.930 --> 01:36:03.890 Pennsylvania, Florida, South Dakota, and California, 01:36:04.250 --> 01:36:06.649 each of whom have legislators who are willing 01:36:06.649 --> 01:36:09.010 to introduce and to pursue bills to join their 01:36:09.010 --> 01:36:12.729 states into Texas as is trial. Governor Perry 01:36:12.729 --> 01:36:14.729 and I spoke to the American Legislative Exchange 01:36:14.729 --> 01:36:17.449 Council as keynote speakers on December 5th of 01:36:17.449 --> 01:36:20.850 last year. This is an umbrella think tank organization 01:36:20.850 --> 01:36:24.329 for center -right, mostly Republican legislatures 01:36:24.329 --> 01:36:27.579 from across the country. In its entire existence, 01:36:28.060 --> 01:36:31.340 ALEC has taken two positions when it comes on 01:36:31.340 --> 01:36:34.619 the war on drugs. More prison, more penalties, 01:36:34.880 --> 01:36:40.100 more prison, more penalties. Ad infinitum. After 01:36:40.100 --> 01:36:43.470 we spoke... About the necessity of Ibogaine's 01:36:43.470 --> 01:36:45.850 medical integration into the United States and 01:36:45.850 --> 01:36:48.369 the capacity of the states to force this reality 01:36:48.369 --> 01:36:51.890 into being, Alec issued a formal position statement 01:36:51.890 --> 01:36:55.029 as well as model legislation endorsing what we 01:36:55.029 --> 01:36:57.550 call the American Ibogaine Initiative to bring 01:36:57.550 --> 01:37:00.689 the states all together to make this happen with 01:37:00.689 --> 01:37:04.609 one unified voice. And so now, as we sit here 01:37:04.609 --> 01:37:09.140 with you today, in the state of Tennessee, There 01:37:09.140 --> 01:37:11.960 are two bills, one each in the state House and 01:37:11.960 --> 01:37:14.100 the state Senate, that are making its way through 01:37:14.100 --> 01:37:16.300 that legislature to join Texas. Before we walked 01:37:16.300 --> 01:37:18.840 in here this morning, the Tennessee Senate Finance 01:37:18.840 --> 01:37:22.100 Committee voted 11 to nothing to move Tennessee's 01:37:22.100 --> 01:37:24.380 bill forward to the full state Senate for consideration 01:37:24.380 --> 01:37:27.720 and what will, I believe, be passage. And I would 01:37:27.720 --> 01:37:29.500 like to give a shout out to a special sister 01:37:29.500 --> 01:37:32.100 by the name of Ricky Harris, who has led that 01:37:32.100 --> 01:37:34.829 Tennessee campaign. Right now, there are two 01:37:34.829 --> 01:37:37.189 bills in the Missouri legislature, House Bill 01:37:37.189 --> 01:37:41.170 2817 and Senate Bill 1581, which are receiving 01:37:41.170 --> 01:37:45.649 good, considerate, deliberative thought by legislators 01:37:45.649 --> 01:37:47.949 there, but frankly need a little motivation. 01:37:48.090 --> 01:37:50.329 So if you're in Missouri and you want to see 01:37:50.329 --> 01:37:52.369 Ibogaine Medicine for your family member, for 01:37:52.369 --> 01:37:54.909 your community, for your state, you call into 01:37:54.909 --> 01:37:57.409 the Missouri legislature and say, move the Ibogaine 01:37:57.409 --> 01:38:00.510 bill forward to join Missouri with Texas, Oklahoma. 01:38:01.199 --> 01:38:03.939 The Oklahoma House of Representatives has passed 01:38:03.939 --> 01:38:06.600 its Ibogaine bill. It is now pendant in its Senate. 01:38:06.760 --> 01:38:10.100 In Louisiana, Senate Bill 43 has been introduced 01:38:10.100 --> 01:38:12.920 to join that state to Texas, and in what I can 01:38:12.920 --> 01:38:18.090 only describe as full circle justice. The Kentucky 01:38:18.090 --> 01:38:22.130 Senate passed Senate Bill 77 by a margin of 35 01:38:22.130 --> 01:38:26.270 to 2 to join Kentucky where this all began with 01:38:26.270 --> 01:38:28.829 Texas as a state partner in this Ibogaine drug 01:38:28.829 --> 01:38:31.470 development trial. It is now sitting in the Kentucky 01:38:31.470 --> 01:38:33.930 House of Representatives. So you, if you are 01:38:33.930 --> 01:38:38.649 at home, please call the Kentucky House of Representatives 01:38:38.649 --> 01:38:41.250 and ask them to pass the Kentucky Ibogaine initiative 01:38:41.250 --> 01:38:45.229 so the state will not be left out. Now, here 01:38:45.229 --> 01:38:49.600 are some... Just unbelievable words are going 01:38:49.600 --> 01:38:53.500 to come out of my mouth. The state of West Virginia, 01:38:53.800 --> 01:38:57.539 their House of Delegates by a vote of 96 to nothing, 01:38:57.680 --> 01:39:00.859 and their state Senate unanimously passed their 01:39:00.859 --> 01:39:03.260 Ibogaine bill to join Texas, and it has now been 01:39:03.260 --> 01:39:06.680 sent to their governor for signature. And the 01:39:06.680 --> 01:39:10.479 one that is the most poignant and moving for 01:39:10.479 --> 01:39:14.479 all the obvious reasons, the state of Mississippi, 01:39:14.859 --> 01:39:19.819 the crucible. for the triumph of uniquely American 01:39:19.819 --> 01:39:25.079 hope over horror. And of the leadership of Representative 01:39:25.079 --> 01:39:28.350 Sam Creekmore. Its State House of Representatives 01:39:28.350 --> 01:39:32.750 passed by a margin of 111 to 1, and its State 01:39:32.750 --> 01:39:36.810 Senate passed by a margin of 51 to 1. The Mississippi 01:39:36.810 --> 01:39:39.310 Ibogaine Initiative, which will tie the state 01:39:39.310 --> 01:39:42.270 of Mississippi with a $5 million appropriation 01:39:42.270 --> 01:39:46.090 from its opioid fund to Texas to develop the 01:39:46.090 --> 01:39:49.010 most powerful psychedelic on the planet as a 01:39:49.010 --> 01:39:50.810 breakthrough treatment for trauma and addiction 01:39:50.810 --> 01:39:53.939 for the people of Mississippi. That's incredible. 01:39:54.239 --> 01:39:57.359 It is going to be signed, actually has been legally 01:39:57.359 --> 01:40:01.060 signed by Governor Reeves, Governor Tate Reeves. 01:40:01.420 --> 01:40:05.380 And Governor Perry and I have asked for a special 01:40:05.380 --> 01:40:07.979 signing ceremony with Representative Creekmore, 01:40:08.180 --> 01:40:11.220 his legislative leaders there, to stand in Jackson, 01:40:11.359 --> 01:40:13.420 Mississippi and see that signed into law as a 01:40:13.420 --> 01:40:17.819 matter of ceremonial formality. What a wonderfully 01:40:17.819 --> 01:40:21.079 redemptive opportunity that we have here to shepherd. 01:40:21.930 --> 01:40:24.250 And we hope and pray that our organization can 01:40:24.250 --> 01:40:27.029 be sufficiently resourced and sufficiently engaged 01:40:27.029 --> 01:40:29.689 over the next three years so that we can see 01:40:29.689 --> 01:40:32.449 this process to conclusion. I'll mention a couple 01:40:32.449 --> 01:40:34.369 of others since we're talking about the capacity 01:40:34.369 --> 01:40:37.630 to make this a broad -based humanitarian mission 01:40:37.630 --> 01:40:41.850 that improves the human condition. Just Friday... 01:40:42.300 --> 01:40:44.819 Before traveling down here on Sunday, I received 01:40:44.819 --> 01:40:47.260 a letter from the government of Gabon naming 01:40:47.260 --> 01:40:49.840 Americans for Ibogaine as its official partner 01:40:49.840 --> 01:40:52.699 for the advancement of Iboga medicine globally. 01:40:53.199 --> 01:40:57.039 Gabon has 2 .3 million people. It's got 100 ,000 01:40:57.039 --> 01:40:59.380 square miles of territory that's the modern Garden 01:40:59.380 --> 01:41:02.670 of Eden. I had the opportunity to take a trip 01:41:02.670 --> 01:41:04.869 there from, and I mean trip as in the geographic 01:41:04.869 --> 01:41:11.090 sense, not the Iboga trip, though I hope that 01:41:11.090 --> 01:41:13.289 that will be on the agenda in the ceremonial 01:41:13.289 --> 01:41:16.270 way sometime within the next year. We traveled 01:41:16.270 --> 01:41:20.579 there from January 6th to January 20th. Someone 01:41:20.579 --> 01:41:23.039 would have said, when you go to Gabon, you're 01:41:23.039 --> 01:41:24.939 going to have one of the most down -home experiences 01:41:24.939 --> 01:41:26.979 you've ever had in my life. It would have blown 01:41:26.979 --> 01:41:30.479 my mind. But it was a fabulous journey, one in 01:41:30.479 --> 01:41:34.760 which they were jubilant about our ability to 01:41:34.760 --> 01:41:37.119 demonstrate that what they call the sacred wood, 01:41:37.239 --> 01:41:39.899 in fact, is one of the most scientifically advanced 01:41:39.899 --> 01:41:42.899 substances that has perhaps ever been discovered. 01:41:43.079 --> 01:41:45.399 And we're honored that the government would choose 01:41:45.399 --> 01:41:48.819 us as their partner to move this forward. On 01:41:48.819 --> 01:41:53.029 Monday, After a conference call with Chief Gary 01:41:53.029 --> 01:41:58.670 Batten, I can confirm that the Choctaw Nation 01:41:58.670 --> 01:42:03.069 will seek to join Texas in the expansion of this 01:42:03.069 --> 01:42:05.970 Ibogaine drug development trial onto their sovereign 01:42:05.970 --> 01:42:09.109 territory as the third largest Native American 01:42:09.109 --> 01:42:13.600 tribe in the country. On April the 7th, I will 01:42:13.600 --> 01:42:16.439 be traveling to Durant, Oklahoma, for what is 01:42:16.439 --> 01:42:18.680 being called the Intertribal Council Meeting 01:42:18.680 --> 01:42:21.760 of what they describe as the Five Civilized Tribes. 01:42:21.760 --> 01:42:24.399 That's their name, not mine. This is a gathering 01:42:24.399 --> 01:42:28.039 of the leadership of the Choctaw, the Chickasaw, 01:42:28.260 --> 01:42:32.319 the Cherokee, the Muskegee, and the Seminole. 01:42:33.199 --> 01:42:37.180 We expect a passage of a resolution that I will 01:42:37.180 --> 01:42:40.159 be there to lobby for. where the five civilized 01:42:40.159 --> 01:42:42.899 tribes will declare their solidarity with Americans 01:42:42.899 --> 01:42:46.699 for Abigain for the integration of this divine 01:42:46.699 --> 01:42:49.319 emancipator into the U .S. healthcare system 01:42:49.319 --> 01:42:52.840 as expeditiously as possible and make all of 01:42:52.840 --> 01:42:55.260 their resources available to explore the extent 01:42:55.260 --> 01:42:57.859 to which we can operationalize Ibogaine medicine 01:42:57.859 --> 01:43:00.840 as quickly as possible. And it's my hope and 01:43:00.840 --> 01:43:04.159 aspiration that we will see all of Native America 01:43:04.159 --> 01:43:06.840 join this effort before the end of this year. 01:43:06.979 --> 01:43:09.600 Can I stop you there? Would that make it so that 01:43:09.600 --> 01:43:12.560 they would be able to immediately establish retreats 01:43:12.560 --> 01:43:15.180 there? So similar to the way they have... Casinos? 01:43:15.979 --> 01:43:18.439 Because they don't have the same sort of regulations 01:43:18.439 --> 01:43:22.560 that some states do. Tribal sovereignty is an 01:43:22.560 --> 01:43:24.859 area of the law with which I am not familiar. 01:43:25.439 --> 01:43:28.060 I would not be able to speak to the degree to 01:43:28.060 --> 01:43:30.539 which they could autonomously open a clinic. 01:43:30.680 --> 01:43:33.199 The most immediate issue would be related to 01:43:33.199 --> 01:43:36.239 the creation of a supply chain because you have 01:43:36.239 --> 01:43:38.720 traveled through interstate commerce in the U 01:43:38.720 --> 01:43:40.600 .S. states, which is theoretically restricted. 01:43:44.859 --> 01:43:48.319 not just to expedite the creation of Ibogaine 01:43:48.319 --> 01:43:50.399 treatment access for Native America, but for 01:43:50.399 --> 01:43:54.939 all of America. And this gets into federal right 01:43:54.939 --> 01:43:58.199 to try legislation, authored by former U .S. 01:43:58.199 --> 01:44:01.819 Senator Kyrsten Sinema and signed by the president 01:44:01.819 --> 01:44:05.579 during his first administration in 2018. What 01:44:05.579 --> 01:44:09.840 federal right to try legislation or the law provides 01:44:09.840 --> 01:44:16.319 is that once any medication makes its way through 01:44:16.319 --> 01:44:19.539 Phase 1 safety testing within the FDA's process, 01:44:20.279 --> 01:44:23.920 then anyone with a life -threatening condition 01:44:23.920 --> 01:44:26.300 for which that medication is being developed 01:44:26.300 --> 01:44:30.180 can request treatment with that medication and 01:44:30.180 --> 01:44:33.279 obtain it from a willing prescriber. What does 01:44:33.279 --> 01:44:39.619 that mean? That means that as soon as Texas or 01:44:40.119 --> 01:44:42.579 As soon as one of the native tribes effectively 01:44:42.579 --> 01:44:46.640 completes a phase one safety study under the 01:44:46.640 --> 01:44:52.039 language of the law, anyone who has a life -threatening 01:44:52.039 --> 01:44:54.100 condition for which this medication is being 01:44:54.100 --> 01:44:56.739 developed, first and foremost, opioid dependency, 01:44:57.039 --> 01:45:00.779 can go and request and get the treatment. We 01:45:00.779 --> 01:45:05.359 have one complication. Presently, the Drug Enforcement 01:45:05.359 --> 01:45:08.489 Administration in keeping with the practice of 01:45:08.489 --> 01:45:11.149 many government agencies that use their arbitrary 01:45:11.149 --> 01:45:15.750 authority to interpret law, has asserted that 01:45:15.750 --> 01:45:19.689 federal right to try does not apply to Schedule 01:45:19.689 --> 01:45:24.229 I substances. This means that based on not the 01:45:24.229 --> 01:45:27.930 language of the law, but on DEA's interpretation 01:45:27.930 --> 01:45:32.630 preference of that law, once Ibogaine clears 01:45:32.630 --> 01:45:35.430 through Phase I, it would be disqualified for 01:45:35.430 --> 01:45:37.890 access under federal right to try because the 01:45:37.890 --> 01:45:42.310 DEA says that if Schedule I substances were intended 01:45:42.310 --> 01:45:45.529 to be included, they would have been specifically 01:45:45.529 --> 01:45:49.390 listed in the legislation. When Kirsten Sinema, 01:45:49.550 --> 01:45:52.529 the author of the bill, explained to them that 01:45:52.529 --> 01:45:55.949 the language is unambiguous and it says any medication, 01:45:56.609 --> 01:46:01.979 their response was insolence. and a refusal to 01:46:01.979 --> 01:46:04.680 honor what the statute actually says, which is 01:46:04.680 --> 01:46:07.399 one of these numerous examples of the use of 01:46:07.399 --> 01:46:09.899 fictitious legal realities to do violence to 01:46:09.899 --> 01:46:14.420 legitimate reality. The DEA needs to be told 01:46:14.420 --> 01:46:19.239 to relent on its misinterpretation and extrajudicial 01:46:19.239 --> 01:46:22.500 interpretation of federal right to try to interpret 01:46:22.500 --> 01:46:26.020 it as written so that once... Any phase one study 01:46:26.020 --> 01:46:29.680 on Ibogaine is completed. Delivery can be effectuated 01:46:29.680 --> 01:46:33.100 through the medical system immediately. And I 01:46:33.100 --> 01:46:36.479 might add one of the challenges that I've seen 01:46:36.479 --> 01:46:38.819 over my 40 years of being involved in government 01:46:38.819 --> 01:46:44.680 is that bureaucrats, the easiest and the safest 01:46:44.680 --> 01:46:49.319 answer for a bureaucrat is no. And I think that's 01:46:49.319 --> 01:46:52.140 part of what we're running into in D .C. with 01:46:52.140 --> 01:46:57.310 the DEA. One of the issues that I certainly hope 01:46:57.310 --> 01:47:01.189 and pray as we go through the summer and as we 01:47:01.189 --> 01:47:03.189 see what's happening in Texas and Mississippi 01:47:03.189 --> 01:47:07.050 and these other states, that we'll have the opportunity 01:47:07.050 --> 01:47:10.569 to sit down with President Trump and to just 01:47:10.569 --> 01:47:13.229 share with him what we're doing, what we're seeing 01:47:13.229 --> 01:47:18.569 across the country, and that we could potentially 01:47:18.569 --> 01:47:21.649 have a conversation about the rescheduling of 01:47:21.649 --> 01:47:25.960 Ibogaine from one to... Three. Two or three. 01:47:26.119 --> 01:47:30.819 You get it out of that Schedule 1, which there's 01:47:30.819 --> 01:47:32.279 no reason in the world, and you've talked about 01:47:32.279 --> 01:47:35.939 this many times, Joe, that Ibogaine is on Schedule 01:47:35.939 --> 01:47:38.399 1. It does have medical purposes. I mean, it's 01:47:38.399 --> 01:47:41.520 very clear it does. And secondly, it is not addictive. 01:47:41.659 --> 01:47:48.479 So the idea on its face that Ibogaine is shown 01:47:48.479 --> 01:47:52.260 as this Schedule 1 compound is just a fallacy. 01:47:52.699 --> 01:47:54.479 Well, the Schedule I, the sweeping Schedule I 01:47:54.479 --> 01:47:57.140 Act of 1970 is just nuts. They just threw a bunch 01:47:57.140 --> 01:47:59.220 of stuff in there, many of the things that aren't 01:47:59.220 --> 01:48:03.539 even psychoactive. A question, the iboga tree, 01:48:03.659 --> 01:48:08.979 can it be grown in the United States? Theoretically, 01:48:09.039 --> 01:48:12.640 it could be. Is it climate dependent? It's climate 01:48:12.640 --> 01:48:15.960 dependent. It's soil dependent. It is considered 01:48:15.960 --> 01:48:23.139 an entourage plant whereby it absorbs. essentially 01:48:23.139 --> 01:48:26.680 the essence, not just of the soil around it. 01:48:27.039 --> 01:48:30.060 but of the other botanicals. One of the things 01:48:30.060 --> 01:48:32.880 we learned in Gabon is that much like we have 01:48:32.880 --> 01:48:35.539 grape varietals in California for all the different 01:48:35.539 --> 01:48:38.380 kinds of wine that they produce, there are different 01:48:38.380 --> 01:48:41.199 varieties of the iboga shrub. How it grows in 01:48:41.199 --> 01:48:42.960 the north of the country is very different than 01:48:42.960 --> 01:48:45.699 how it grows in the south. In terms of the amount 01:48:45.699 --> 01:48:47.760 of compound that's in it or the type of compound 01:48:47.760 --> 01:48:53.119 that's in it? The potency, the strength. The 01:48:53.119 --> 01:48:56.180 nature of its effect on the person, the way that 01:48:56.180 --> 01:49:00.899 it kind of facilitates the spiritual journey. 01:49:01.180 --> 01:49:03.239 There's some of it that will kind of have a dark 01:49:03.239 --> 01:49:05.500 angle. There's some of it that has more of a 01:49:05.500 --> 01:49:09.100 light angle. We are just really scratching the 01:49:09.100 --> 01:49:12.720 surface of knowledge as to all the ways in which 01:49:12.720 --> 01:49:16.319 it can vary based on how it grows naturally. 01:49:16.760 --> 01:49:19.579 One of the most fascinating things that we learned 01:49:19.579 --> 01:49:20.899 there, and this is going to give you chills. 01:49:21.880 --> 01:49:25.520 We visited a five -hectare, they use the metric 01:49:25.520 --> 01:49:29.439 system, we visited a five -hectare iboga plantation 01:49:29.439 --> 01:49:32.979 right in the center of Lieberville that is run 01:49:32.979 --> 01:49:35.579 by one of their former prime ministers. It's 01:49:35.579 --> 01:49:39.859 an experimental farm to kind of understand how 01:49:39.859 --> 01:49:42.960 it grows, the optimal ways in which to grow it, 01:49:43.000 --> 01:49:46.020 and what different outcomes are. So as we were 01:49:46.020 --> 01:49:49.699 walking along, We came to these two small bushes. 01:49:49.800 --> 01:49:52.140 It takes for it about 10 years to come to maturation. 01:49:53.399 --> 01:49:55.279 We come along this pathway, and they were two 01:49:55.279 --> 01:49:58.960 shrubs, identical, growing just a couple of feet 01:49:58.960 --> 01:50:01.060 apart from each other. And they pointed those 01:50:01.060 --> 01:50:03.579 out and said, now what does that look like to 01:50:03.579 --> 01:50:05.340 you? And I said, well, those are iboga shrubs. 01:50:05.380 --> 01:50:08.520 And they smiled and they said, well, it would 01:50:08.520 --> 01:50:12.859 appear so, because they are identical. They said, 01:50:12.859 --> 01:50:16.039 but in nature, when you find an iboga shrub, 01:50:16.399 --> 01:50:18.739 You're going to have to be very careful to determine 01:50:18.739 --> 01:50:20.800 which one's which because in nature it looks 01:50:20.800 --> 01:50:25.319 like they grow in pairs. One is the real deal. 01:50:25.979 --> 01:50:30.859 The other is its poison imposter. Oh. And they 01:50:30.859 --> 01:50:33.140 grow together. And they look identical? They 01:50:33.140 --> 01:50:36.039 look identical. How do you differentiate? It's 01:50:36.039 --> 01:50:39.880 not until they get fully grown into their 10th 01:50:39.880 --> 01:50:43.079 year. One bears fruit, which is the real deal. 01:50:43.529 --> 01:50:47.449 And the other does not. Wow. Now, how does that 01:50:47.449 --> 01:50:51.289 do you for the physical communication of a mystical, 01:50:51.390 --> 01:50:54.649 spiritual reality? So it takes 10 years for it 01:50:54.649 --> 01:50:56.390 to come to fruition to the point where it could 01:50:56.390 --> 01:50:59.890 be useful? No. Though you could use it before 01:50:59.890 --> 01:51:02.109 then, but you don't know whether you're getting 01:51:02.109 --> 01:51:03.630 the real deal or you're just killing yourself. 01:51:03.810 --> 01:51:05.710 When you see them grow in pairs, that's correct. 01:51:06.840 --> 01:51:09.420 So there's one group of people who know how to 01:51:09.420 --> 01:51:12.279 differentiate. One of the things that we learned 01:51:12.279 --> 01:51:14.979 is that there is a healthy underground international 01:51:14.979 --> 01:51:19.270 market for the bark. Just like we use... Vitamin 01:51:19.270 --> 01:51:22.050 B complex, or we use valerian root to help us 01:51:22.050 --> 01:51:26.170 go to sleep. People in Gabon will use the iboga 01:51:26.170 --> 01:51:29.369 bark for mental acuity and just like drinking 01:51:29.369 --> 01:51:31.449 a cup of coffee. I mean, to get the psychoactive 01:51:31.449 --> 01:51:36.489 effect, you have to eat like five big, huge heaping 01:51:36.489 --> 01:51:38.289 plates of this stuff over the course of time. 01:51:38.710 --> 01:51:41.390 It's so bitter, it will burn your mouth. I mean, 01:51:41.449 --> 01:51:43.789 it's an Olympian ordeal. This is the bark. Yes, 01:51:43.810 --> 01:51:47.539 sir. It's an Olympian ordeal. to consume the 01:51:47.539 --> 01:51:50.140 amount of bark that's necessary to get that mystical 01:51:50.140 --> 01:51:52.020 effect. And you're sicker than a dog the whole 01:51:52.020 --> 01:51:55.039 time you're doing it. But apparently piracy in 01:51:55.039 --> 01:51:57.699 the country for the shrub is fairly prominent. 01:51:58.020 --> 01:52:01.140 And they explain that what poachers will do is 01:52:01.140 --> 01:52:04.340 that they will take the poison imposter and basically 01:52:04.340 --> 01:52:07.199 like the street supply where you put pollutants 01:52:07.199 --> 01:52:10.140 in with cocaine or whatever here, they put that 01:52:10.140 --> 01:52:12.789 imposter bark in with the real. because you cannot 01:52:12.789 --> 01:52:17.770 visually differentiate. The Ambongo pygmy, who 01:52:17.770 --> 01:52:19.949 we had the privilege of meeting, who hosted us 01:52:19.949 --> 01:52:22.409 for an overnight ceremony of blessing and protection 01:52:22.409 --> 01:52:25.810 that was just phenomenal, they apparently can 01:52:25.810 --> 01:52:29.510 just taste the bark, even when it's mixed together, 01:52:29.529 --> 01:52:31.609 and they can tell if it's adulterated with the 01:52:31.609 --> 01:52:37.189 imposter. Wow. Those are like sommeliers of Ibogaine. 01:52:37.470 --> 01:52:41.550 Yes. That's a great way to put it. And I've again 01:52:41.550 --> 01:52:44.430 sommelier. Might have to go over and get tutored. 01:52:45.270 --> 01:52:48.689 Yeah, I wonder what that process is like. Boy. 01:52:49.989 --> 01:52:54.489 Well, it seems to me that with the incredible 01:52:54.489 --> 01:52:58.029 effectiveness of this compound and it being adopted 01:52:58.029 --> 01:53:01.210 by all these states, it almost seems inevitable 01:53:01.210 --> 01:53:04.609 that change is coming. Well, here's what we need 01:53:04.609 --> 01:53:08.439 to make change happen. We need the DEA to get 01:53:08.439 --> 01:53:10.760 on board. Well, we need the DEA to get on board, 01:53:10.880 --> 01:53:14.640 but we need one man to get on board. And that 01:53:14.640 --> 01:53:17.159 man is the President of the United States. We're 01:53:17.159 --> 01:53:20.899 here to recognize America in her 250th year. 01:53:21.720 --> 01:53:26.819 25 of those 250, now 10 % of time, has been spent 01:53:26.819 --> 01:53:31.380 at war. And there are conditions unique to war 01:53:31.380 --> 01:53:35.979 that only this medication. can responsibly address 01:53:35.979 --> 01:53:41.020 in a way that nothing else can. If there is an 01:53:41.020 --> 01:53:44.680 opportunity to improve the human condition at 01:53:44.680 --> 01:53:47.319 scale, particularly for those who are even right 01:53:47.319 --> 01:53:50.420 now being marched in to go and fight yet another 01:53:50.420 --> 01:53:55.500 war, taking executive action that would direct 01:53:55.500 --> 01:53:59.920 Ibogaine to be moved to Schedule II, that the 01:53:59.920 --> 01:54:02.619 provisions of the Halt -Fentanyl Act be applied 01:54:02.619 --> 01:54:05.699 to the Texas Multistate Ibogaine Drug Development 01:54:05.699 --> 01:54:09.500 Trial, that the DEA be directed to interpret 01:54:09.500 --> 01:54:13.260 federal right to trial so as to not exclude Schedule 01:54:13.260 --> 01:54:15.680 I medications that are in drug development, and 01:54:15.680 --> 01:54:18.199 that it be appropriately interpreted so that 01:54:18.199 --> 01:54:20.439 any medication that makes it through Phase I 01:54:20.439 --> 01:54:23.720 can be accessed by a person with a life -threatening 01:54:23.720 --> 01:54:27.659 condition, and then directed. that federal scientific 01:54:27.659 --> 01:54:30.260 research agencies, whether they be within Health 01:54:30.260 --> 01:54:33.659 and Human Services or the Pentagon, come alongside 01:54:33.659 --> 01:54:37.180 the states in direct partnership to fund and 01:54:37.180 --> 01:54:40.199 foster the accelerated pharmacological development 01:54:40.199 --> 01:54:42.979 of Ibogaine so that this medication can make 01:54:42.979 --> 01:54:45.319 its way all the way through the FDA's process 01:54:45.319 --> 01:54:49.020 with their supportive guidance within three years 01:54:49.020 --> 01:54:52.579 or less. It is the moonshot of our time. And 01:54:52.579 --> 01:54:55.279 if there's a humanitarian legacy to be left for 01:54:55.279 --> 01:54:59.439 the ages by a president who very much wishes 01:54:59.439 --> 01:55:03.140 to have a legacy that is well reflected upon 01:55:03.140 --> 01:55:06.479 by posterity, this is one of the most monumental 01:55:06.479 --> 01:55:10.779 opportunities he has to help folks at scale in 01:55:10.779 --> 01:55:14.689 a way that no president perhaps has before. We're 01:55:14.689 --> 01:55:17.329 at an inflection point in history, not just for 01:55:17.329 --> 01:55:20.270 this country, but globally. Well, I certainly 01:55:20.270 --> 01:55:22.390 hope that this message reaches the president, 01:55:22.489 --> 01:55:25.989 and I will try to make sure that it does. Thank 01:55:25.989 --> 01:55:30.390 you, sir. I mean, I think in terms of the amount 01:55:30.390 --> 01:55:32.310 of people that it can help and the crisis that 01:55:32.310 --> 01:55:34.609 our country is enduring with opiate addiction, 01:55:34.850 --> 01:55:38.449 with PTSD, with all sorts of trauma, with CTE, 01:55:38.710 --> 01:55:42.909 from sports, from car accidents, and what have 01:55:42.909 --> 01:55:47.930 you. I mean, it's astonishing that this is even 01:55:47.930 --> 01:55:50.590 a struggle. When you consider the effectiveness 01:55:50.590 --> 01:55:53.890 of this, it's astonishing that we have to plead 01:55:53.890 --> 01:55:56.890 and that you have to put in so much work. And 01:55:56.890 --> 01:55:59.670 kudos to you for doing that. And kudos to Dan 01:55:59.670 --> 01:56:03.310 Patrick for this recent adoption of it here in 01:56:03.310 --> 01:56:08.590 Texas. And I just can only hope that momentum 01:56:08.590 --> 01:56:12.569 is on the side that's correct. And that this 01:56:12.569 --> 01:56:15.550 is implemented through the entire country and 01:56:15.550 --> 01:56:17.729 that people wake up and realize, like, we can 01:56:17.729 --> 01:56:20.789 help people. And everyone at this point in time, 01:56:20.810 --> 01:56:22.850 because of the opioid crisis, everyone is touched 01:56:22.850 --> 01:56:25.409 by this. Everyone has a family member. Everyone 01:56:25.409 --> 01:56:27.829 knows someone, a friend, a neighbor, everyone. 01:56:28.090 --> 01:56:30.210 Everyone knows someone who's been hit by this. 01:56:30.430 --> 01:56:33.510 I have friends that have no problems with anything 01:56:33.510 --> 01:56:36.779 else and they had an injury. and got hooked on 01:56:36.779 --> 01:56:41.020 opiates and had a terrible time kicking it. Opioids 01:56:41.020 --> 01:56:45.619 are, I'll use the word demonic. I just, I don't 01:56:45.619 --> 01:56:47.319 know any other way to describe it. It's a good 01:56:47.319 --> 01:56:52.020 word. It robs people of their life. And to have 01:56:52.020 --> 01:56:56.140 seen, you know, back in Kentucky, where this 01:56:56.140 --> 01:56:59.020 all started, in my opinion, in your work there, 01:56:59.140 --> 01:57:03.329 and to have... the success that we're seeing 01:57:03.329 --> 01:57:06.409 now in Kentucky and having it blocked historically 01:57:06.409 --> 01:57:10.590 when you were there at the Opioid Abatement Commission 01:57:10.590 --> 01:57:13.750 and the current governor being a part of that 01:57:13.750 --> 01:57:17.470 blockade, if you will, former employee of the 01:57:17.470 --> 01:57:22.689 Sackler family. And today to have the opportunity, 01:57:22.930 --> 01:57:27.609 you know, for the Kentucky, people of Kentucky. 01:57:28.430 --> 01:57:32.489 to finally get the opportunity to make right 01:57:32.489 --> 01:57:37.670 what they got so tragically impacted by back 01:57:37.670 --> 01:57:41.550 in the late 90s and the 2000s. I just, I mean, 01:57:41.590 --> 01:57:46.590 it gives me great hope, not just for this country, 01:57:46.670 --> 01:57:51.310 but for the side of righteousness that this happens 01:57:51.310 --> 01:57:55.069 in a big and a powerful way. He mentions the 01:57:55.069 --> 01:57:58.840 Kentucky experience. Before we rolled out the 01:57:58.840 --> 01:58:02.699 Abigail Initiative there and stood up the Opioid 01:58:02.699 --> 01:58:05.399 Commission, I thought our first job was to go 01:58:05.399 --> 01:58:07.659 and to hear from the people of the state. We 01:58:07.659 --> 01:58:09.159 were getting a billion dollars in settlement 01:58:09.159 --> 01:58:11.939 funds. This money was coming to us because thousands 01:58:11.939 --> 01:58:15.300 of their family members had died. So recognizing 01:58:15.300 --> 01:58:18.340 that confidence in government is at an all -time 01:58:18.340 --> 01:58:20.640 low, I thought it was important to go out and 01:58:20.640 --> 01:58:23.260 say, hey, here's who we are. Here's the job we've 01:58:23.260 --> 01:58:27.199 been given. Here's the resource we have. need 01:58:27.199 --> 01:58:29.479 you have in your community that we can look to 01:58:29.479 --> 01:58:33.199 fund. This is something that needs to be accessible 01:58:33.199 --> 01:58:35.819 to grassroots organizations. It needs to be accountable 01:58:35.819 --> 01:58:38.100 to you as people, and we need to make sure we're 01:58:38.100 --> 01:58:39.899 transparent with how we use this money, but our 01:58:39.899 --> 01:58:42.539 first job is to listen. Well, over the course 01:58:42.539 --> 01:58:45.579 of 20 town halls across the state Tuesday evenings 01:58:45.579 --> 01:58:48.579 from 6 p .m. until we wrapped up, what began 01:58:48.579 --> 01:58:51.840 as a 15 -minute technocratic presentation of 01:58:51.840 --> 01:58:55.359 what this state commission does turned into these 01:58:57.939 --> 01:59:03.260 These mass catharsis events were hundreds of 01:59:03.260 --> 01:59:05.479 people, thousands over the course of those 20 01:59:05.479 --> 01:59:07.979 town halls, poured out the depths of their grief 01:59:07.979 --> 01:59:11.920 right at our feet. And after they did, the sum 01:59:11.920 --> 01:59:16.319 total of their response to us was, we don't think 01:59:16.319 --> 01:59:21.220 that you have the competence or the integrity 01:59:21.220 --> 01:59:24.199 to do anything that's going to make a meaningful 01:59:24.199 --> 01:59:27.729 difference in this life. in our lives. And we 01:59:27.729 --> 01:59:30.189 don't expect one cent of this money is going 01:59:30.189 --> 01:59:32.670 to make the least bit of difference for us. At 01:59:32.670 --> 01:59:35.829 one of these town halls, I heard about a young 01:59:35.829 --> 01:59:40.239 woman by the name of Tamara. And the woman who 01:59:40.239 --> 01:59:43.380 told Tamara's story was a volunteer at a clinic 01:59:43.380 --> 01:59:46.600 for the survivors of child sexual abuse. This 01:59:46.600 --> 01:59:49.199 particular clinic made sure that children received 01:59:49.199 --> 01:59:51.600 appropriate medical treatment, that they received 01:59:51.600 --> 01:59:55.420 proper therapeutic counseling, and that they 01:59:55.420 --> 01:59:58.039 were placed in family circumstances where they 01:59:58.039 --> 02:00:00.420 could perhaps have a chance to have a decent 02:00:00.420 --> 02:00:03.619 life. So this volunteer told about meeting a 02:00:03.619 --> 02:00:05.300 young woman by the name of Tamara when Tamara 02:00:05.300 --> 02:00:07.920 was 10 years old, had been horrifically sexually 02:00:07.920 --> 02:00:11.060 abused by a family member. Tamara had to have 02:00:11.060 --> 02:00:13.079 a series of reconstructive surgeries because 02:00:13.079 --> 02:00:17.659 of how awful it was. And she said that she worked 02:00:17.659 --> 02:00:20.420 with Tamara for about two or three years and 02:00:20.420 --> 02:00:25.100 that she went to her adopted family and she hadn't 02:00:25.100 --> 02:00:27.500 been heard from since and that she assumed that 02:00:27.500 --> 02:00:30.350 that was despite how awful. her circumstances 02:00:30.350 --> 02:00:32.390 were when she came through the door, that she 02:00:32.390 --> 02:00:35.689 managed to get well and go on and have a relatively 02:00:35.689 --> 02:00:39.449 functional and happy life, as happy as one can 02:00:39.449 --> 02:00:43.289 to be a survivor of those circumstances. This 02:00:43.289 --> 02:00:46.689 same woman said that about 10 years later, she 02:00:46.689 --> 02:00:49.229 was volunteering at the Perry County Kentucky 02:00:49.229 --> 02:00:53.289 Detention Center in the county seat of Hazard. 02:00:54.189 --> 02:00:56.609 and that she was offering mindfulness and yoga 02:00:56.609 --> 02:00:59.970 classes to inmates there, just as a volunteer. 02:01:00.729 --> 02:01:03.569 And she said she went in one evening to teach 02:01:03.569 --> 02:01:06.590 her class, and that she saw this young woman 02:01:06.590 --> 02:01:08.649 sitting in the corner after herself, kind of 02:01:08.649 --> 02:01:10.369 withdrawn. She didn't want to come participate 02:01:10.369 --> 02:01:12.949 in any of the yoga exercises or anything, and 02:01:12.949 --> 02:01:15.069 that she was looking at her. And she said, you 02:01:15.069 --> 02:01:17.609 know, even though she was an adult, she looked 02:01:17.609 --> 02:01:19.390 kind of like what this young woman appeared, 02:01:19.609 --> 02:01:22.470 Tamara, when she was 10 years old. She said, 02:01:22.489 --> 02:01:25.029 so I walked up to her and knelt down beside her 02:01:25.029 --> 02:01:30.029 and I said, is your name Tamara? And she said 02:01:30.029 --> 02:01:32.569 that young woman looked up at her and recognized 02:01:32.569 --> 02:01:35.090 and eyes brightened. She said, yes, how'd you 02:01:35.090 --> 02:01:37.890 know? She said, I'm the volunteer who worked 02:01:37.890 --> 02:01:39.670 with you when you came to our clinic when you 02:01:39.670 --> 02:01:43.630 were 10. What are you doing in here? And Tamara 02:01:43.630 --> 02:01:48.199 explained. that because of the surgeries that 02:01:48.199 --> 02:01:51.060 she had performed to be reconstructed, they had 02:01:51.060 --> 02:01:54.899 given her opioids. And that what began to treat 02:01:54.899 --> 02:01:58.699 her physical pain, she continued to rely upon 02:01:58.699 --> 02:02:03.220 to treat her tremendous spiritual and emotional 02:02:03.220 --> 02:02:08.239 pain. And she had gotten busted by an oxy on 02:02:08.239 --> 02:02:11.079 the street by a deputy with the Perry County 02:02:11.079 --> 02:02:15.069 Sheriff's Department and put in jail. You think 02:02:15.069 --> 02:02:17.510 about what I just said about how this young woman's 02:02:17.510 --> 02:02:21.130 life got started off. And the response of power 02:02:21.130 --> 02:02:25.510 to her was a prison. This is why what we're doing 02:02:25.510 --> 02:02:28.050 is so necessary. And Governor Perry mentions 02:02:28.050 --> 02:02:32.250 one other reality that's important. Some of your 02:02:32.250 --> 02:02:37.489 viewers may have seen a Politico article published 02:02:37.489 --> 02:02:42.920 on Sunday about a presidential aspirant. by the 02:02:42.920 --> 02:02:47.079 name of Andy Beshear, who is the current Kentucky 02:02:47.079 --> 02:02:52.640 governor. Andy Beshear was the Attorney General 02:02:52.640 --> 02:02:57.199 of Kentucky before he was governor. He is the 02:02:57.199 --> 02:03:01.479 son of his father, Steve Beshear, who was governor 02:03:01.479 --> 02:03:07.239 for eight years between 2007 and 2015. Andy's 02:03:07.239 --> 02:03:10.640 greatest accomplishment is being his father's 02:03:10.640 --> 02:03:13.569 son. because he has never accomplished anything 02:03:13.569 --> 02:03:18.489 outside of his father's lap. The legislature 02:03:18.489 --> 02:03:20.590 in Kentucky has been controlled by Republican 02:03:20.590 --> 02:03:23.510 supermajorities over the entirety of his term, 02:03:23.689 --> 02:03:26.770 and everything for which he claims credit actually 02:03:26.770 --> 02:03:31.170 belongs to them by way of accomplishment. There 02:03:31.170 --> 02:03:33.369 are a few things for which he can claim credit. 02:03:33.770 --> 02:03:37.270 One is shutting down the state of Kentucky harder 02:03:37.270 --> 02:03:40.810 than Gavin Newsom shut down the state of California. 02:03:41.399 --> 02:03:44.739 which resulted in the educational hobbling of 02:03:44.739 --> 02:03:47.760 an entire generation of Kentucky children who 02:03:47.760 --> 02:03:51.119 were already well behind national average standards 02:03:51.119 --> 02:03:55.520 on both reading and math. You could go to a liquor 02:03:55.520 --> 02:03:58.279 store or a strip club for months in Kentucky 02:03:58.279 --> 02:04:00.479 before you could send your child to a public 02:04:00.479 --> 02:04:03.659 school. Andy Beshear is responsible for that. 02:04:04.399 --> 02:04:08.630 He shut down the state's entire economy. He had 02:04:08.630 --> 02:04:12.109 an antiquated unemployment benefits system that 02:04:12.109 --> 02:04:16.449 he instructed the director of to make sure that 02:04:16.449 --> 02:04:18.869 his contributors and his family members were 02:04:18.869 --> 02:04:21.789 placed into the front of the line while regular 02:04:21.789 --> 02:04:24.989 everyday people at home got a busy signal for 02:04:24.989 --> 02:04:28.550 months on end and had no financial lifeline while 02:04:28.550 --> 02:04:32.090 his family and friends got valet treatment. When 02:04:32.090 --> 02:04:35.329 this was discovered, he scapegoated the director 02:04:35.329 --> 02:04:38.880 of the unemployment system. For following his 02:04:38.880 --> 02:04:41.199 own instructions, a guy by the name of Muncie 02:04:41.199 --> 02:04:45.279 McNamara and Mr. McNamara took his own life. 02:04:46.079 --> 02:04:50.100 But the most egregious reality about Andy Beshear 02:04:50.100 --> 02:04:54.159 and his father pertains to the fact that they 02:04:54.159 --> 02:04:58.979 were both law partners at the law firm that represented 02:04:58.979 --> 02:05:02.579 Purdue Pharma against the people of Kentucky 02:05:02.579 --> 02:05:06.569 and the litigation over OxyContin. while they 02:05:06.569 --> 02:05:10.810 were law partners there. Andy Beshear and his 02:05:10.810 --> 02:05:15.409 daddy drew law partner paychecks off Purdue Pharma 02:05:15.409 --> 02:05:18.949 client bills while they were there. And the people 02:05:18.949 --> 02:05:21.189 of Kentucky should have received a billion dollars, 02:05:21.250 --> 02:05:26.470 but instead received a measly $24 million payout 02:05:26.470 --> 02:05:30.189 from Purdue Pharma because Andy and his daddy's 02:05:30.189 --> 02:05:34.039 law firm malpracticed that case. The public record 02:05:34.039 --> 02:05:37.079 will establish that as part of the Purdue Pharma 02:05:37.079 --> 02:05:41.359 settlement, 17 million documents were destroyed. 02:05:41.659 --> 02:05:45.039 The case was put under seal, and as a condition 02:05:45.039 --> 02:05:47.939 of the settlement, their law firm was allowed 02:05:47.939 --> 02:05:50.420 to cure their malpractice of the case, which 02:05:50.420 --> 02:05:53.880 resulted in a $24 million settlement within days 02:05:53.880 --> 02:05:56.680 of Andy Beshear becoming the attorney general. 02:05:57.460 --> 02:06:00.300 That's right, the attorney general. I said I've 02:06:00.300 --> 02:06:03.439 been a Republican all my life. And I have. My 02:06:03.439 --> 02:06:05.479 family's been Republican going back to the Civil 02:06:05.479 --> 02:06:10.180 War. I don't care if it's Gavin Newsom, Kamala 02:06:10.180 --> 02:06:13.819 Harris, Pete Buttigieg, that Illinois governor, 02:06:14.119 --> 02:06:19.859 Governor Pritzker, any national Democrat who 02:06:19.859 --> 02:06:24.979 needs my time, my effort, whatever I can offer 02:06:24.979 --> 02:06:28.930 by way of volunteer resources to make sure. that 02:06:28.930 --> 02:06:31.869 Andy Beshear never sniffs the sewer grate of 02:06:31.869 --> 02:06:35.489 the White House, they've got it. In this Politico 02:06:35.489 --> 02:06:38.970 article, Andy talks about, in much the same way 02:06:38.970 --> 02:06:43.630 as other performative public piety purveyors, 02:06:43.829 --> 02:06:48.470 that his life is guided by the golden rule and 02:06:48.470 --> 02:06:50.890 the good Samaritan. He likes to wear his Sunday 02:06:50.890 --> 02:06:53.289 school and deacon affiliations on his sleeve, 02:06:53.350 --> 02:06:56.250 as so many other performative public piety figures 02:06:56.250 --> 02:07:01.340 do. If he were actually going to preach the part 02:07:01.340 --> 02:07:04.140 of the Bible that he has lived, he would talk 02:07:04.140 --> 02:07:07.020 more about Judas and the 40 pieces of silver 02:07:07.020 --> 02:07:10.460 than he would any golden rule and a good Samaritan. 02:07:10.560 --> 02:07:12.960 And I just want to make sure that the people 02:07:12.960 --> 02:07:16.060 of home and the people of America know who this 02:07:16.060 --> 02:07:19.659 man is as the national media takes up Kentucky 02:07:19.659 --> 02:07:23.340 media's grotesque narrative about his decency 02:07:23.340 --> 02:07:26.770 and tries to lie him into the White House. Thank 02:07:26.770 --> 02:07:28.609 you for letting me say that. It's been a long 02:07:28.609 --> 02:07:33.590 time coming. I understand. Anything else before 02:07:33.590 --> 02:07:35.710 we wrap this up? You think we covered it all? 02:07:36.210 --> 02:07:38.390 I think we hit it good. Thank you, Joe. Thank 02:07:38.390 --> 02:07:41.750 you. You have been a really big supporter of 02:07:41.750 --> 02:07:44.029 this effort. Well, I think it's just incredible. 02:07:44.369 --> 02:07:47.970 I mean, I can't believe it's happening. I'd always 02:07:47.970 --> 02:07:49.949 kind of given up hope that people would wake 02:07:49.949 --> 02:07:54.729 up to the powerful potential that a lot of these 02:07:54.729 --> 02:07:57.659 compounds have. change people's lives. Yeah. 02:07:58.100 --> 02:08:01.500 Well, I'm sure there were some teachers of mine 02:08:01.500 --> 02:08:06.420 back in the 1950s that the idea that that little 02:08:06.420 --> 02:08:10.760 burr -headed kid that is, you know, obviously 02:08:10.760 --> 02:08:14.060 not paying a lot of attention could somehow or 02:08:14.060 --> 02:08:17.300 another end up being the governor of the great 02:08:17.300 --> 02:08:22.739 state of Texas. There's probably a long, long 02:08:22.739 --> 02:08:25.399 list of those, as a matter of fact. And I'm sure 02:08:25.399 --> 02:08:27.000 there are some people over the course of the 02:08:27.000 --> 02:08:32.739 last 15 years, as I matriculated up through the 02:08:32.739 --> 02:08:36.060 political process, that said, you know, the idea 02:08:36.060 --> 02:08:39.159 that this guy is going to be standing up, putting 02:08:39.159 --> 02:08:41.039 his reputation on the line for something like 02:08:41.039 --> 02:08:45.220 psychedelics, that ain't going to happen. But 02:08:45.220 --> 02:08:47.859 it goes back to your point about be curious, 02:08:48.039 --> 02:08:51.800 be courageous. And make a difference. All right. 02:08:51.800 --> 02:08:53.520 And you're doing it, Joe Rogan. Thank you, man. 02:08:53.699 --> 02:08:57.220 Thank you. Thank you too, Brian. Thank you. And 02:08:57.220 --> 02:08:59.800 do you mind if I share one last thing? Sure. 02:09:01.100 --> 02:09:04.600 And because it is the 250th anniversary of the 02:09:04.600 --> 02:09:08.100 country, this comes from the heart. You know, 02:09:08.119 --> 02:09:11.260 the bicentennial children have had the blessing 02:09:11.260 --> 02:09:13.539 of being the grandchildren of that greatest generation 02:09:13.539 --> 02:09:16.159 that overcame the Great Depression, defeated 02:09:16.159 --> 02:09:20.609 Nazism, killed Jim Crow. and crushed totalitarian 02:09:20.609 --> 02:09:25.210 communism. That greatest generation lived, suffered, 02:09:25.409 --> 02:09:28.470 bled, and died to leave us the shining city on 02:09:28.470 --> 02:09:33.130 the hill. Over the past 50 years, the bicentennial 02:09:33.130 --> 02:09:35.229 children or those who are known as Generation 02:09:35.229 --> 02:09:39.409 X have experienced the mass extinction of family 02:09:39.409 --> 02:09:42.909 and community. We are the first generational 02:09:42.909 --> 02:09:46.029 cohort of mass refugees from obliterated biological 02:09:46.029 --> 02:09:49.869 families who had to seek and build new families 02:09:49.869 --> 02:09:53.430 of choice based on the salvation bond of unconditional 02:09:53.430 --> 02:09:58.689 affection, rejecting only the superficial, socialized 02:09:58.689 --> 02:10:01.170 separatisms of the skin suits into which we have 02:10:01.170 --> 02:10:06.720 been born over the past 30 years. We have watched 02:10:06.720 --> 02:10:11.100 truth, justice, and the American way be overrun 02:10:11.100 --> 02:10:16.220 by institutional deceit, white -collar criminality, 02:10:16.279 --> 02:10:20.000 and the thieving tyrant's will, an odious alignment 02:10:20.000 --> 02:10:23.680 of official depravity which has produced the 02:10:23.680 --> 02:10:27.060 opioid epidemic, the gravest engineered humanitarian 02:10:27.060 --> 02:10:29.619 catastrophe to play out within our borders since 02:10:29.619 --> 02:10:31.899 the end of the 19th century, and an epidemic 02:10:31.899 --> 02:10:37.220 which has disfigured this country. The 2008 financial 02:10:37.220 --> 02:10:40.779 crisis, which forcibly dispossessed millions 02:10:40.779 --> 02:10:44.460 of us from the American dream, including 52 % 02:10:44.460 --> 02:10:47.039 of African -American homeowners, and sent us 02:10:47.039 --> 02:10:50.020 the bill for the cost of our dispossession, a 02:10:50.020 --> 02:10:53.220 bill that everyone under the age of 40 continues 02:10:53.220 --> 02:10:55.500 to pay through their lack of economic mobility. 02:10:55.739 --> 02:10:59.520 And finally and most deplorably, 25 years of 02:10:59.520 --> 02:11:02.529 unremittant warfare. which has taken exponentially 02:11:02.529 --> 02:11:04.989 more service member lives here at home by suicide 02:11:04.989 --> 02:11:08.670 than have been lost at battlefields abroad. Over 02:11:08.670 --> 02:11:12.970 the last 10 years, 1 .5 million Americans have 02:11:12.970 --> 02:11:16.930 died from drug overdose, alcohol -related disease, 02:11:17.109 --> 02:11:20.289 and suicide, a figure that exceeds the total 02:11:20.289 --> 02:11:23.430 number of war casualties going all the way back 02:11:23.430 --> 02:11:28.949 to 1776. We've got 102 counties with life expectancies 02:11:28.949 --> 02:11:32.859 less than that of North Korea. 18 % of respondents 02:11:32.859 --> 02:11:35.680 to a recent Pew Research Center poll said that 02:11:35.680 --> 02:11:37.840 they believe the federal government has the capacity 02:11:37.840 --> 02:11:40.500 to do the right thing, a figure that hasn't been 02:11:40.500 --> 02:11:45.960 above 30 % since 2007. 80 % of respondents to 02:11:45.960 --> 02:11:48.899 an October 2025 Wall Street Journal poll have 02:11:48.899 --> 02:11:53.880 said that the American dream is dead. Power has 02:11:53.880 --> 02:11:56.439 answered these unconscionable realities with 02:11:56.439 --> 02:12:00.079 a maelstrom of bureaucratic absurdity. impudent 02:12:00.079 --> 02:12:05.119 incompetence, and predatory corruption, all with 02:12:05.119 --> 02:12:07.640 the blessing of the law, which has used its power 02:12:07.640 --> 02:12:12.800 to bind torture and kill the truth. In the decades 02:12:12.800 --> 02:12:19.100 prior to July 14, 1789, the French government 02:12:19.100 --> 02:12:25.960 had ruthlessly imposed its burdens, abusively 02:12:25.960 --> 02:12:30.619 imposed its costs, and ravenously consumed the 02:12:30.619 --> 02:12:36.060 future of its people. The arrogance of the aristocracy 02:12:36.060 --> 02:12:39.479 ultimately answered to the desperate determination 02:12:39.479 --> 02:12:45.859 of the peasantry and its guillotine blade. We 02:12:45.859 --> 02:12:49.060 are here to pursue one of the greatest humanitarian 02:12:49.060 --> 02:12:53.220 missions ever undertaken to serve and exalt the 02:12:53.220 --> 02:12:56.920 primacy of the human soul. As we sit here right 02:12:56.920 --> 02:13:00.199 now, There are millions of Americans who have 02:13:00.199 --> 02:13:04.819 no sense of greater purpose or of even why they 02:13:04.819 --> 02:13:07.859 are alive, who mourn to see the sunrise when 02:13:07.859 --> 02:13:10.880 it comes up and through their windows. And what 02:13:10.880 --> 02:13:13.939 they need to know is that they are indeed divine. 02:13:14.800 --> 02:13:17.180 There's only one thing that is known to produce 02:13:17.180 --> 02:13:21.119 iron, and that's the supernova of a star. The 02:13:21.119 --> 02:13:25.439 iron in our blood originated in a supernova eons 02:13:25.439 --> 02:13:30.729 ago. Every human being has stardust running through 02:13:30.729 --> 02:13:33.850 their blood. And the movement that Governor Perry 02:13:33.850 --> 02:13:36.949 and I are leading is one that aims to recognize 02:13:36.949 --> 02:13:42.069 the reality of that human divinity. We are desperate, 02:13:42.270 --> 02:13:46.409 and we are determined, and we will crawl the 02:13:46.409 --> 02:13:50.630 last mile to deliver good tidings unto the meek, 02:13:50.670 --> 02:13:55.109 to bind up the brokenhearted. to proclaim liberty 02:13:55.109 --> 02:13:58.489 to the captives and the opening of the prison 02:13:58.489 --> 02:14:01.810 to them that are bound. Glory, glory, hallelujah. 02:14:02.350 --> 02:14:05.970 The truth is marching on. And thank you, sir, 02:14:06.130 --> 02:14:08.270 for letting us proclaim it right here on your 02:14:08.270 --> 02:14:10.729 platform, the Walter Cronkite of our age. That 02:14:10.729 --> 02:14:12.850 was a beautiful way to end it. Thank you. Thank 02:14:12.850 --> 02:14:14.369 you, gentlemen. Bye, everybody.