So, Dave, you were telling me right before the
show that you are now retiring because you got
an impromptu phone call and bet hundreds of millions
of dollars on oil prices going down. Congratulations.
It was a good bet. It just wasn't timed right.
I thought you got it in on time. I thought you
got it in like five minutes early. I did not.
How is there not a massive investigation into
that right away? Didn't someone make like $1
.8 billion in like five minutes? Yeah, there's
a lot of those. Like trades like that that should
be investigated that kind of never are. How about,
what's his name, Lutnik? Yeah, how about that
one? So he's working for the administration and
also standing to gain huge if people can sue
over the tariffs, right? Well, explain the whole
thing. Do you know the actual details of it?
No, I don't really know the details. So essentially
he was telling everybody that, you know, don't
sweat it. The tariffs are golden. We're getting
them through. There's going to be no problems.
Is that what it was? But in meanwhile, he was
shorting the tariffs? Yes. Yeah, so he was personally
shorting them while promoting them. Let's find
out what that actually is so we don't get sued.
Sure, sure, sure. I bet he's a quite litigious
gentleman. Yeah, he might be. Let's see if we
can find it. Like, isn't it wild that people
are on the files, visit the island, and then
they still work? It was unbelievable. Some people
had to resign from some jobs. Well, especially
just him because he so, the way, there's something
about a really confident liar. Like where they
just because I mean that that interview clip
where he's like, let me tell you something. I
met Jeffrey Epstein that one time at a massage
table. He said they were sex massage tables.
I went right back to my wife and I said, honey.
we are never hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein
again. And that is that. Is that really the quote?
I haven't seen that. I don't know if it's verbatim,
but that is the exact spirit of it. It's probably
pretty verbatim. Let's listen to it. Listen to
it? I'm very, very close to exactly what he said.
Okay. Let me get this one again. What was this
one? Let Nick interview about Epstein. And he
just sounds, I mean, so morally outraged about
the idea. There's so many people that they exist
in that world where you just pretend that you're
a different person. You pretend you're one way.
You pretend you think things differently. I've
been up close with people like that. That was
my takeaway from debating Chris Cuomo. It's a
weird thing to see someone just lie like that.
Here it is. Now this is the one that says he's
the greatest blackmailer ever. Yeah, try to explain
it to him. It was a... Let me see the keywords
that would... Downplays relationship with him.
That might be it. What does he do? He's a commerce
secretary. He was always like a money finance
guy. I think he used to work for CNBC, if I'm
correct. In this administration, this like...
The wolves have taken over the hen house. Yeah.
Yeah, they sure have. This is what draining the
swamp looks like. Under fire for Epstein ties,
Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick defends visiting
his private island. Yeah, but this isn't the
clip. The clip was from... Oh, at the top it
says, Lutnick said in an interview last year
he was never in the room with Epstein other than
a 2005 visit to his apartment. Okay, so that's
probably it. He said... You know, he met him
once and was like, this guy sucks. He specifically
says that he met him, that he saw he had a massage
table in his living room. And he goes, hey, Jeffrey,
what do you, you really like massages? And he
claims that Jeffrey went, yeah, and the right
kind of massages. And that's when he decided
he would never talk to him again. Nobody likes
the right kind of massages. Those are terrible.
Imagine if those were legal, just hand job massages.
There'd be no relationships. How many people
are in terrible relationships just because they
need sex? There's a lot of guys who'd be like,
I'm just going to hang out with the boys, just
get jerked off once on Wednesday, and I'm good.
Howard Lending downplays relationship with Epstein
during Senate testimony. Testimony, I don't know.
Is this it? No, this is from recently. This is
from this year. I did find an article that kind
of, I don't even know what this website is, though.
I don't know. His old firm did not, in fact,
profit from the Supreme Court tariff ruling.
It says that there was an article claiming it,
and then I was trying to dig through this. We
better edit that out then. I mean, it was reported,
though, that they did, but I don't know what
this says. It says the firm is run by his two
sons. Elder Lutnick announced the sale of the
stake in the firm and other investors to the
Supreme Court on Friday, invalidated many of
Trump's tariffs. The president said, okay, Castor
did not consider the product, which has existed
for years, was humming trade on Wall Street's
Trump first term tariff push, but decided against
it after weighing the political sensitivities.
According to a senior banker familiar with this
matter, Cantor spokesman said the salesman erroneously
believed the firm was likely to green light the
business. Okay, I'm missing this. I'm not exactly
sure what they're saying here. This is just the
legality of tariffs they're discussing now. Tariff
refund rights. So what was the accusation? The
accusation was that he had shorted tariffs while
claiming that tariffs are going to work. Yeah,
the accusation was that he stood to make a lot
of money from tariffs being struck down. Why
don't you put that into perplexity, Jamie, and
find out if that's accurate, and let it scour
the internet instead of us doing it. God, I love
AI. Yeah, it is something. I can't wait until
it takes over government. It's going to be awesome.
After a while, you're like, I don't know if it
could be much worse than what humans are doing
with government. It's going to be better. It's
not going to be greedy. Well as long as it determines
that human life is valuable. I feel like is really
the big humans Let's be honest. You know some
homeless guys taking a shit on your Jaguar. I
really okay valuable Yeah, but yeah, but to AI
we all might be homeless guys taking you see
that there was these San Francisco tech guys
And they got trapped in their Waymo because a
homeless guy started attacking the Waymo and
yelling at them Why are you paying robots? No.
Yeah, you're a traitor. You're paying robots.
You're paying the robots. The homeless guy was
upset about this? The homeless guy was attacking
the Waymo. The tech guys were in the Waymo. We
were terrified for our life. We feared our safety
because they're being attacked by a crazy person
who's saying you shouldn't be giving money to
robots. That's an uncomfortable position to be
in. I get all my information from the Tim Dillon
Show, by the way. But they did play a clip. It's
not the worst source of information. It's the
best source. Him and that dude, what's his name?
James Lee. He's our other number one source of
information. Conspiracy theorist. There you go.
There you go. But another one, a Waymo gal got
in, and there's a fucking homeless guy in the
trunk. Because apparently the last person, when
they left their Waymo, they opened the trunk
to get their luggage out, and they never closed
it. So the homeless guy hopped into their fucking
Waymo. And closed it on himself. It was in the
trunk. So she orders a Waymo. She climbs in.
There's a homeless guy in the trunk. And Waymo's
like, that's unacceptable. Oh, you think? Oh,
you think? Okay. The main claim is that Cantor
Fitzgerald, Howard Letnick's former firm now
chaired by his son, stood to profit by buying
tariff refund rights that only. became of became
valuable if trump's tariffs were overturned but
the firm insists it ultimately did not execute
those trades what critics say happened investigators
and reporter reporting notably by wire described
canter fitzgerald exploring a business where
it would buy the rights to future tariff refunds
from importers for about 20 30 cents on the dollar
Internal materials cited in those reports suggested
Cantor had capacity to trade several hundred
million dollars of these refund rights and had
already facilitated at least one trade of around
$10 million in rights under the IEEPA tariffs.
The idea was that if courts later struck down
the tariffs, the government would have to refund
duties and Cantor or its clients would collect
the full refund while the original importers
only kept a small upfront payment. So why is
it seen as a conflict? Is it true? So it just
said that they executed on one, right? Didn't
it say that? Scroll back up. That was based off
that email. Yeah. It says internal material cited
in those reports suggested Cantor had capacity
to trade and had already facilitated at least
one trade of around $10 million in rights. That's
only $10 million. Let it go, Dave. That is small
potatoes for what we're talking about. For those
guys. Yeah, these kind of guys. Uh -huh. What
Cantor and Letnick's side say. Cantor Fitzgerald
has publicly stated that while some salespeople
explored, I like that in quotes. Brokering tariff
refund rates in 2025, the firm never executed
any transactions or taken any position on tariff
refund claims, calling contrary reports false.
Follow -up recording has echoed that Cantor considered
products tied to the Supreme Court tariff ruling,
but ultimately backed off, in part because of
the political optics, duh, that's a big duh,
around Letnick's government job. Latest coverage
is no public evidence that Cantor actually booked
profits from this strategy, though the investigations
in Congress are ongoing and focus on whether
there was any attempted or potential profiteer.
Are you more interested in the ethics conflicts
of interest or the nuts and bolts of how the
secondary tariff refund market works financially?
No. So it seems like we don't really have evidence.
Well, it'll be interesting. I mean, if which
is probably going to happen. But the Democrats
take the House and the Senate in the midterm
elections this year. I mean, they're going to
be in that'll just be the next two years of politics
will be investigations and some Democrat lady
just over. She just took over the seat. in Trump's
neighborhood where Mar -a -Lago is. So a Democrat
lady just won. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean,
look, they in his first term, they impeached
him twice for absolute bullshit. So they'll go
after him for anything. But I have a feeling
now there's probably a lot more for them to investigate
and work on stuff like this and the meme coin
stuff and, you know, whatever business deal.
You know, I don't I don't have the details. At
the top of my mind, but I do know that they said
at one point that Jared Kushner would not be
involved in this administration at all because
he does so much business over there and it's
just like so they were like oh no no he won't
but now he totally is it's him and Witkoff are
like the lead negotiators in this too so So just
a lot of meat on the bone for Democrats to make
big political theater out of for the next two
years Is there any where that's not corrupt?
I mean when we look at the insider trading in
congress when you look at all these slimy deals
that get made with ngos you look at every it's
like everything's dirty there's not one part
of government like right there they nailed it
yeah well that is true like maybe the post office
that's i mean post office is pretty fucking good
dude yeah compared to all the rest of it sure
get us a letter moved across the whole country
for like what is it like 30 cents how much is
a stamp these days that's true I mean, I don't
know if you include the cost on the back end,
like the taxes that pay for the whole thing.
Maybe it's a little more expensive. But relatively
speaking, yeah. Relatively speaking. You can
get, you know, something done. It's not a bad
organization. Sure. In terms of government organizations,
you never hear, except going postal. That used
to be a thing. Remember those days? Yes, I do.
It was a while. Like where so many post officers
went so crazy and started shooting people that
they started calling it going postal, but it
never, it just went away. Yeah. Young people,
if you're listening to this and you don't know
what we're talking about in our day, we didn't
have school shootings. Okay. We had to do it
the old fashioned way. You had to drive a postman
crazy until he went around shooting people. And
it happened several times to the point that that
became a thing. Like these crazy postal workers.
There was a video game called postal. Well, you
run around shooting people. It was in the, I
want to say the 90s. Yeah, that would be about
the time period. The first one came out in 97.
Yeah, yeah. And it was like highly criticized.
They were like, weren't they like cartoon looking
characters? Can you see if you pull up a video
of Postal? It was like, they're like South Park
looking characters, just blasting people. So
it felt like less, if I remember correctly, or
maybe that's the box. I never played it. Maybe
I played it. Oh, this is new stuff. This is going
postal? No. Pissing everywhere. This looks way
better than 1990s. This was in the 90s for sure.
Is this the new postal? Here's what it looked
like. That might have been a newer version right
there. Oh, Jesus. You just run around jacking
people. Yeah. So it was like the first Grand
Theft Auto, really. Kind of. I mean, Grand Theft
Auto came out around then, too, actually. It
didn't look like this then, though. But real
weird, though, right, that post office workers
were just killing a bunch of people. That's what
it looked like. Like that. Okay. This is what
it looked like. It didn't look like that other
thing. It wasn't a first -person thing. It was
like you're seeing it from above and you're just
running around killing everybody. I played a
postal, though, that wasn't first -person like
that. Maybe they had more versions of it. Also,
I don't want to show it because I don't know.
There could be some bad stuff on there. Yeah,
probably. Dude, video games really are like crack.
I love problem. I loved your, you had a rant
about that years ago about how like the problem
is that there's so much fun and you're not accomplishing
anything. So the last video game I got into was
a UFC three and I loved that game. I just loved
it. And then like, I think it was, I got married,
my wife got pregnant and I was like, all right,
I gotta get rid of this. I just can't. So I was
at, um, the, the dojo of comedy. It was a club
in New Jersey. Great club. Um, they have a LA
one too. Oh, do they? Sam Tripoli. Oh, yeah.
Shout out to Sam. Yeah. So I was at the one in
Jersey, and they have in the green room, they
have UFC 3. And I was like, oh, that's the game
that I got really into. So I was there for a
weekend, and I mean, I just, the whole time I
was there, just in the green room playing this
video game. And I was like, it was like a feeling
almost like. like a drug addict who's around
their drug of choice where I was like, I need
to be away from that. Like, I will play this
until I kill myself. It's so much fun. It's a
problem. Robbie Lawler fighting, you know, whoever
and just, and they keep getting better. Yeah,
I know. Well, I didn't, I stopped at that. So
I never even like learned how to play the new
ones, but I'm like, I can't. What number UFC
game are they at now? Five, I think. Five. The
graphics keep getting better. The movement keeps
getting more natural. Yeah. And first -person
shooters, man. Oh, my God. They're so good now.
Was it Joe Lozon, I want to say? What was the
guy, 155 guy, really good grappler? Wasn't his
thing like he was obsessed with video games,
and then he went, I got to just do something
else instead of this, so he just did jiu -jitsu?
And then he just got amazing at jiu -jitsu? I
swear I think that was his story. Is that really
what happened? I could be misremembering this,
but I swear I heard him talk about this in an
interview once, and that it was just like, I
just played video games all day, all night, and
then eventually I was like, I got to do something
productive with this, and so he just started
doing jiu -jitsu instead. I wonder what he's
up to these days. He was a fun guy. He was a
fun fighter to watch. Fun dude, like, in person,
too. Him and his brother used to beat the fuck
out of each other on the yard, like in the front
yard. They would have, like, full -on MMA fights,
like full power. They'd just beat the piss out
of each other in the front yard. I was like,
boys. Save it. Like, whale on each other. It's
crazy. That's a young man's game. They had, like,
a bunch of guys hanging around. It looked like
it was a picnic or something like that. They
decided, let's spice this picnic up. You and
me fight, motherfucker. And they would fight.
Like, fight, fight. But all across this country,
there are... boys fighting in their yard, and
that was of the highest level of yard fighting.
I mean, that was top 1%. Oh, that was vicious.
Two, like, legit MMA professionals. Yeah, two
legit MMA professionals are mad at each other
because they're in the house with each other
all the time. Shut the fuck up. You didn't fucking
do that. You were supposed to put that shit away.
Yeah, yeah. That was, uh... You ate my food.
Yeah. They both ended up being real fun fighters
to watch, though. Oh, yeah. Yeah, Joe was awesome.
He was a great fighter. Yeah, he had a lot of
fights in the UFC, too. Yep. And I think it got
to, you know, how many years was he in? God,
I want to say he was at least in the UFC for
like around a decade. Yeah, he had a pretty long
career. Yeah. Because he was fighting, I mean,
he fought. I don't know. I mean, he fought, like,
the whole, like, I think when he started was,
like, BJ Penn era of lightweight. And then he
fought into, like, Anthony Pettis was the champion.
Yeah, but pull up Lozon's Wikipedia. Find out
when he retired. His first fight was September
23, 2006. And I think his last fight was 2019.
Wow. That's crazy. 2019. Some of these guys just
don't want to stop. It's just too fun. It's a
very hard job to keep going for a while. Maybe
the hardest. Yeah. You know, like on your body.
Oh, yeah. Other than football. There's a lot
of those guys in the NFL. They only last a couple
of years. Yeah, for sure. This episode is brought
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.com to find a store near you. No, I mean, that's
a real tough one, but there's nothing. Well,
I guess. I guess like professional football,
there's a similar aspect to where like you're
not just I mean, look, you can go to the hospital
from basketball. You know, you can get hurt and
get a bad injury. But the NFL or the UFC, you
kind of like, you know, every time you go into
it, like there's a very reasonable chance you're
leaving here on a stretcher to go to the hospital.
But particularly with MMA, it's the most unforgiving
sport where like you you're one mistake. One
mistake away from like, you know, like if LeBron
James misses a wide open layup, he runs back
on defense and tries to, you know, get a block
or something on the next play. But in MMA, you
could be dominating, fighting a perfect fight,
make one mistake, and it's like, okay, you're
unconscious now. Leon Edwards, Kamaru Usman.
Perfect example. Yep. Kamaru's way ahead in the
fight. It's in the fifth round. I think there's
like 20 seconds to go or something crazy. And
Leon just plants one, a perfect head kick. And
John Anik makes the perfect call. Something had
been said about him maybe deciding to quit, and
then John Anik says, but that is not the cloth
from which he was cut. Boom, head kick knockout.
It's like, come on, man, is this real? One of
the most amazing. MMA championship knockouts
ever Oh ever ever and then just as his post fight
speech. Look at me now Look at me And then comes
back and wins the rubber match. Yeah, which was
like it's an interesting thing How much you know,
like well first off like getting knocked out
cold like that and you know better than me But
like that does a number to your body like that's
not you're not logically well psychologically
and also I think physically And then also just
like the confidence that that gave Leon Edwards
going into the next fight. Right. Like just changes
everything now. Yeah. Kamara had to be very careful
because he knew at any – I mean – he dodged most
of the big ones until the big one landed. So
in his head, in that fight, he had a narrative.
And that narrative completely changed with one
head kick. So going into the next fight, the
narrative is now, if you fuck up, you will be
unconscious. You can't get knocked unconscious
again. And he fought much more cautiously in
the second fight. I remember seeing that with,
I felt like you could watch that when Dustin
Poirier fought Conor McGregor the second time.
Like, you know, McGregor had knocked him out
years earlier and you could kind of see, you
know, like you could see Dustin. I'm not saying
like he was nervous or anything. He's like one
of the greatest fighters ever. But you could
kind of just see like he gets in there and he
starts and he takes a couple shots from Connor
and he's still there, you know, and then he lands
a couple shots. And you could see like in that
first round, like his confidence growing, like
you almost got to get that out of your head that
it's like, yeah, that guy beat you there. Back
then, but you're a different guy now. Well, with
Conor, it's all about weathering the initial
storm. The initial storm is crazy. He's so explosive,
so fast, so accurate. And then another part about
that second fight was Dustin setting up those
calf kicks, specifically because both of those
guys fight southpaw. And when you both fight
southpaw, if you're a southpaw like Dustin, a
lot of times the calf kick's not really available.
Like you have to throw it with a switch. Or it
doesn't have the same sort of potential. It's
a slightly different potential when you're exchanging
it in combinations. But with Conor, it was wide
open because Conor has two things going on. One,
he's a southpaw. He had just gotten off the Floyd
Mayweather fight. He's very boxing heavy. Not
just, but a while back. But he had really concentrated
on striking with his hands. His hands were elite.
So because of that, your stance is a little wider
and you're putting a little bit more weight on
your legs. And he always had a wide stance anyway.
He had that karate stance. The craziest thing
about that is the calf kick really didn't become
a big deal even until Conor was a superstar.
It was after that. That's how recent it is. Yeah,
it's very strange that that was almost like a
thing that didn't get figured out until so recently.
And then just totally changed everything. Like,
at this point, you rarely, not saying you never
see it, but you pretty rarely see guys kick guys
in the thigh anymore. Oh, they still do. No,
but I mean, like, compared to what it used to
be, where it used to be like, that was what a
leg kick was. Yes. For many years in MMA. And
now it's, I'd say. the majority of leg kicks
are targeting the calf. You'll see almost like
a thigh kick, almost just to switch it up a little
bit. This guy's got really good at taking those.
Yeah, he got really good at being conditioned,
and we also saw a few leg breaks. We saw the
Anderson Silva one. We saw the Chris Weidman
one. There's been a few leg breaks from guys
just full power, leg kicking the thigh, and then
someone just lifts up their knee a little bit
and takes it on the right where the shin bone
meets the kneecap is where they like to catch
it. And, boy, I've seen way too many of those.
I've seen a bunch in person, but because of the
internet, I've seen. Dozens and dozens of small
promotions where a guy throws that kick wrong
really hard and the guy checks it and is fucking.
foot just wraps around the leg and you see it
dangling there. You're like, oh no. I've seen
a bunch. I can recognize the thing. Like that
injury is so recognizable. Like I've seen it
so many times now. I see it. I just go, oh, it's
going to wrap around the calf. It's going to
flop. He's going to fall down. I've seen it several
times on internet videos and in UFC fights. I've
only once seen a guy continue to talk shit about
the other guy after from the ground, which is
the craziest shit ever, dude. Everyone else I've
seen is like crying in pain. And Connor's talking
about it. Your wife's like whatever. Your wife
sent me DMs. Jesus Christ. Yeah, he asked me
to come and sit down with him and do a podcast.
He's an animal. I mean, the dude's one of a kind.
He's one of a kind. That's for sure. He apparently
made a post on his Instagram saying he's back.
And if it's true, that would be awesome. That
would be awesome. The idea is his suspension
for whatever he took before is up. So, yay. What
was it? Something, I think it was Douglas Murray
when he wrote that article about me. There it
is. He said, Mr. Confidence returns to save fighting
again. Call your grandma. Nanny, we did it. Watch
and pay me. Fuck you, pay me. You fat Irish prick.
You don't have my money. I put your brain to
sleep. Who's that? What's that about? Who's he
talking about? C is in the casinos after the
Mac loves yous all. I got love for yous. It's
an all. It's an honor. It's light work. It's
easy for life and eternity. It's McGregor. How
drunk was he when he wrote this? I do this fight
game. Easy peasy. The sound of my shots off the
head go bing in green dot laser form. Okay. Well,
I really hope he is actually back. I hope it's
true. It'd be fun to see him fight a few more
times. It'd be a lot of fun. It'd be a lot of
fun to see him again. Greatest personality the
sport's ever known. Yeah, that's right. There's
no one even close. I mean, he's the most dynamic
personality the sport's ever known. And he was,
for a time there, just such an unbelievable fighter.
I mean, he was like just, it was incredible what
he was doing. Danny Alvarez fight. Oh, yeah.
I was there. I was there. Well, thanks to you.
Really good. Really good seats. Thanks to you.
But that was that was one of the best. That might
be the best fight I've ever been to live because
that whole card was just stacked. And that is
the main event was just unbelievable. He was
in the Matrix. Yes. In the Matrix. He was just
in the zone. You know, Dana said it best. He's
like that kid eats pressure. He goes, he eats
it. Yeah. Like he thrives on pressure, pressure
that makes other people wilt. He like shines
under that pressure. And he had an amazing ability
even very early in his career, which was like
kind of, it was really unique. Like, cause even
like on his first fight ever, if you watch his
first fight in the UFC against like Brimage,
I think the guy's name is. And he was a relatively
unknown at the time. But dude, the place is going
nuts. He already had made so much kind of like
street cred for himself. And then the Irish thing,
like the Irish were really, really into it. But
from the very first fight, he would always create
these moments where it's like, dude, this is
going to be the biggest spectacle that you, my
opponent, has ever been in in their career. Like
I'm going to get you mad with shit talking. I'm
going to get the fans so excited because he's
completely comfortable there. Like I'm not sure
if you're really comfortable here. And even with
Aldo. who had been the entire division. Literally,
when they started the division, they started
him as champion. He didn't even win it. He came
in because they absolved the WEC. So he was the
entire featherweight division, had just dominated
everyone, and he even created such a moment that,
like, Aldo was like... He was the boogeyman.
Yeah, dude. He was incredible. He was one of
the greatest featherweights of all time. But
he got him to the point where he was so furious
that he was like, I'm going to take this fucking
guy's head off. And then Connor's just relaxed.
He didn't care about any of the shit talking.
He was just like, yeah, we're having fun. Let's
play. He lost his composure. Yeah, and he looked
very overwhelmed by the moment. Oh, and by the
way. Everyone from Ireland came to Vegas for
that fight. It was the nuttiest thing I've ever
seen in my fucking life. The entire Mandalay
Bay was overcome with Irish people. I mean, overcome
like you couldn't move. There was nothing but
Irish people everywhere, and they were singing.
They were all singing together in the halls of
this gigantic casino. Act bump like they're waiting
in line for something and they were just there
partying for Connor I remember I think it was
when I want to say it was when I go to all these
people Yeah, it was nuts, bro. This is nuts man.
They're all Irish people like you got to realize
Nobody had a following like him Like it this
is actually Irish people for the Floyd Mayweather
fight They were still ride -or -die with him
even for that fire room. I think it was when
he fought Dennis Seaver I want to say and I think
I was in Boston so I went to I went with Louis
J Gomez my good friend hilarious comedian And
he me and him went to some Irish bar We just
happened to be in midtown Manhattan and we were
like, oh, the fights are coming on. Oh, they're
playing it at this bar. It was just like an Irish
pub. And dude, I mean, it wasn't even that big
of a bar. They must have, I mean, it was shoulder
to shoulder Irish people losing their fucking
minds. It was the most fun environment to watch
a fight in because they're just at, I mean, they're
just like, but all that singing and chanting.
It seemed like everyone had an Irish flag with
them. It was this in a little bar. It was this.
That's nuts, man. Look at that. That's Mandalay
Bay. Wow. Look at this. Oh, that's MGM. Well,
they were everywhere. They were probably at every
fucking casino there was. This is crazy. Imagine
if you're from Northern Ireland. And you still
remember the troubles. You make your way to the
hotel. Just came to Vegas for a little gambling.
You don't follow MMA. You have no fucking idea.
What's this all about? I have picked the wrong
fucking week for me vacation. By the way, I was
going to say that. Douglas Murray's big knock
on me when he wrote his op -ed in the New York
Post was he goes, Dave goes on Joe Rogan and
he talks about foreign policy like he's an expert,
but I bet he wouldn't go in there and talk MMA
with him because then Joe would recognize he's
not an expert. And I was like, we do that all
the time. We do that every show we do. That's
so stupid. I was like, almost every time we hang
out, we end up talking MMA. It probably is fair
that, yeah, there'll be moments where you'll
correct me if I get something wrong. So what?
But if I get it right, you don't go, you're not
an expert. That's so dumb. Imagine we don't talk
about MMA because you're not an expert. That's
so silly. Well, I watch a lot of it. I have some
thoughts. Why is he so silly? I love Douglas.
I really do. I've enjoyed talking to him. I think
he's a brilliant man. But I was very disappointed
with... You've never been? I'm very disappointed
with that sort of strategy, that you shouldn't
be talking about these things that are factual.
But even more disappointing with that notion,
the notion that you would never talk about MMA
with me. First of all, I don't think I argue
about MMA with anybody. I don't think anybody.
If someone has a point about MMA, I never argue.
I might say I disagree. You've corrected me when
I've gotten things wrong. Yeah, or I might say
I disagree. Some people think that a certain
thing is going to happen, and I'm like, ooh,
I don't see that. I disagree. That happens. sure
yeah but well also like it's whatever point you're
making is either a good point or it's not a good
point if it's like an objective claim you know
what i mean so like if i if i say like uh you
know when when volkanovsky fought lopez his jab
was crucial okay that's either correct or it's
incorrect like whether i'm an expert or not i'm
not an expert on fighting geez you can watch
the fight and that would be correct yes right
so well it doesn't see it's right i saw he hit
a home run you're right that's crazy well you
know it's a weird a weird thing during that show
was um Because it's a weird, I don't know, there's
like weird incentives built into like all of
this. Incentives are the right word because there's
a lot of people that are saying things and you
go, why are you saying that? Yeah. Well, also
from my perspective, I was a little disappointed
with it because I kind of thought, I was like,
oh, this could be like a really cool thing. And
it had been literally, which I don't think I'm
saying anything that is. like betraying confidence
here. But the only thing that was ever said to
me, I remember you called me and you were like,
what do you think about doing this? And I think
I said yes before you could finish answering.
Absolutely, let's do that. And then you told
me that he had said, hey, he really doesn't want
this to devolve into like a food fight. He wants
to make this like a good faith thing. And I was
like, oh. Awesome, and now I feel like he like
Trump Witkoff negotiated me like he's He was
because then he came in and the whole thing was
about me He didn't want to talk about the issues
at all He just won and so in a weird way I was
like well this sucks because I thought we could
have had a really cool thing but then there was
this other part of me that was like I Mean, he's
really just handing this to me. You know what
I mean? Like he kind of just like gave me the
win In a thing that was a big show with a lot
of people I knew were going to watch it. I mean,
obviously, every time I do your show, a lot of
people are going to watch it. But that was a
particularly big one. Yeah. And so I was kind
of almost like for the first 45 minutes of it,
I was kind of sitting there like, oh, I can't
believe he just he went this route. Well, if
you look at it objectively, there weren't a lot
of options. Right. Yeah. It's very difficult
to argue the side that what they're doing, like
we were talking about Gaza in particular. Yeah.
Like the arguing that that's not horrific. And
if you're a human being and you recognize that
there are human beings that are subjected to
that government, just like you're subjected to
ICE, you're subjected to Homeland Security, you're
subjected to the cops. If you're a civilian.
you have to listen to these orders. So if you're
living in Gaza and you're a child or you're a
woman and you live, you're not Hamas. Okay. And
the idea that you're responsible for October
7th, even if you're one of the people that cheered
in the street, boy, don't you think you kind
of have to cheer in the street if everybody else
is cheering in the street? If you're fucking
in terror for your life and you have to like.
Keep your safety intact. You've got to kind of
go along with whatever everybody else is doing.
I'm not saying that's good, but when you look
at how that place is leveled, I mean, the most
recent videos that I've seen were still a few
months old, so I don't know if it's stopped.
Did they stop bombing? I don't know what's going
on. No, they've slowed down a bit, but they haven't
stopped. Okay. There was nothing left, man. And
that represents people's homes. That represents
schools. That represents hospitals. There's no
way you can argue that that's not horrific. So
he was stuck. That's right. That's right. It's
kind of indefensible. And so instead you pivot
to arguing against this guy rather than against
the issue. Well, I think that, you know, it's
in I can't remember if this was in the letter
to America or this was in. his declaration of
war against America. But Osama bin Laden literally
said that, uh, civilians are fair targets because
you guys have elections and you vote for these
politicians and they're the ones who conduct
these wars that, that slaughter innocent Muslims.
So like just saying it's the logic of Osama bin
Laden to say that civilians are responsible for
what, and in Gaza. Like, they don't even really
have a government. Hamas is not a government.
They don't have regular elections. They had one
election back in 05 or 06 or whatever it was,
which Hamas did not even win majorities of. They
won on pluralities. You know what I mean? And
so the idea that you're holding these people
responsible for Hamas just doesn't make any sense.
And just on a very basic human level. You just
kind of go, and I'm not like an egalitarian.
I'm not saying all people are equal or all cultures
are equal or anything like that. But on a very
basic human level, like those are real people
too. And when a mother is like pulling her six
-year -old dead body out of the rubble, that's
the same exact experience as if your wife was
pulling your six -year -old out of there. Like
that same thing is happening to her. And once
you even just admit that. It does just change
the calculation. It changes the calculation to
be like, OK, look, the onus is on you to demonstrate
that this is absolutely necessary. Like there
is no other option than to do it this way. And
that makes defending most wars very difficult.
Not all of them, you know, but most wars are
very difficult to defend if you just run it through
that filter of like, is there any other option?
Other than this, have you exhausted everything
else? And then, of course, in the case with Israel
and Palestine, you go, oh, you never even tried
to just give them their independence. You've
never tried to just let them out from this occupation
and see if maybe that will improve things. And
it is crazy that the world didn't at one point
in time stand up and say, there's a simple solution
here. Like these people should have a state.
Like, why do you get to control them? But they're
not as really like they're there. kind of a country,
but not really, because they're attached to you.
Why don't you guys go buy another country and
give it to them and let them have a country?
Or they don't like being attached on the same
small patch of dirt to people that have a totally
different ideology, I guess. Well, that's right.
But we are. We have Canadians right there. Yes,
but Canadians do get citizenship in their own
country. They get citizenship here, too. Boy,
that's the last thing ICE is looking for is fucking
Canadians. Oh, yeah. Your visa's expired? Don't
worry about it, buddy. Get on the plane. They'd
probably have a much easier time. Like, Canadians
would go, all right, guess I gotta goo. Well,
yeah. Also, they can just... ditch the accent
and pretend they're Americans and everybody will
buy it. Yeah, it's much easier. As long as they
don't say about wrong. Yeah. You know, they could
just say, ah, sorry, I don't have my license
on me. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, like, okay, buddy,
where are you from? I live in Iowa. Okay, sounds
right. That does check out. Get out of here.
All right. Shit, that does check out. Do you
see the shit that's going on in the airports?
Are they using ice now at the airports? Because,
first of all, how many ice agents are there?
Aren't they busy? How do you have time to put
them in all the airports? How many fucking airports
are there? It's in the low tens of thousands.
There's not that many of them. Right. So how
many airports are there? There's a lot of airports.
So you're putting ice in the airports? Where
are you getting all these ice guys? Are you hiring
new ice guys to take the airport jobs? It takes
seven weeks to train them. So do they have a
surplus of an ice factory where they're churning
them out and putting them out there? So I didn't
see any of them. I flew out here the other day.
And I didn't see any of them, but then I did
see people saying that they were at the airport
I flew out from later that day. Up to 150. That's
not a lot. Immigration and customs enforcement
officers were deployed at airports across the
United States on Monday. So I, of course. You
know, you get on social media. Somebody sends
you something. Somebody sent me something. I'm
not sure if it was true. But it was like, look
at the difference between the lines at the airport
before ICE was there and after ICE was there.
And tell me that only 10 million illegal aliens
got in. They're like, what is the real? We were
talking about this last night. Like, what's the
real number? What is the real number of illegals
in the United States? We don't know. You were
saying something about Ann Coulter? Yeah, well,
she had, and this was from a while ago. So this
was, well, she had in her book, Adios America,
she had, I believe it was from Bear Stearns.
I could be wrong. Double check me on that. It
was one of the big finance companies that they
had put a thing where like they put it between
like 30 and 50 million. Total in the country.
And 50s. Why? Yeah. And this is before Joe Biden.
And now I don't know. Maybe they got those numbers
wrong before. But what year was this book? I
want to say 2014, 2015. Oh, my God. That's 10
years. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of them. A lot of them
have come in since then. Well, at least 10 million,
they believe, came in through the Biden administration.
So over four years. Well, I remember the numbers
being like during the Biden administration where
they'd be like it was something like last month
there were 700000 border apprehensions. And you're
like, well, geez, then how many were just flooding?
And you'd see those big caravans coming in and
stuff. I mean, look, it's a huge that that still
is a huge scandal. And as much as I have really
been really criticizing Trump and the Trump administration
since last summer, you know. He's done a good
job in securing the border. That is the one thing
that you kind of got to give him, and he got
that secured right away. Even if you think that
it should be open and those people should be
able to travel freely, they should. There's no
one's illegal on stolen land, that kind of shit.
You know how much sex trafficking happened during
that time of children? You know how many children
were trafficked that way? You know how many children
were dragged across the border and sold to psychopaths?
Oh, yeah. Oh, it's horrible. I mean, I saw. Oh,
there's at least 15, at least 50 million illegals
in the country today. See my book, Adios America,
for the analysis from Pulitzer Prize winning
reporters and numbers crunchers from Bear Stearns.
I was right. It was Bear Stearns. This is 2022,
this post. Wow. The book is even older. The book
is like the book is from before. I want to say
2015, but it's around that is crazy. That's crazy.
Supposedly, this is the book that got Donald
Trump on the immigration issue. At least I've
heard Ann Coulter say that before. Maybe that's
right. Maybe that's not right. But I mean, look,
it's like it's also a particularly it's a it's
a profound like act of of treachery for a government
to do that to its own. Like to allow that and
really facilitate that to happen against the
will of the domestic population. Like if you
were to I've tried to look this up before. I
was trying to figure this out because I did a
big immigration debate last year or maybe the
year before. And I was trying – you can't even
get numbers on what the polling on open borders
is because no one even asked the question in
polling because it's like – they asked like,
do you think immigration policy should be less
restrictive or more restrictive? Because the
number of people who support open – it's like
maybe 1 percent of the country supports that.
It's as unified an issue as anyone could have.
No, you can't just have the border wide open.
And so to do that to the American people against
the – like you drastically change the country
in a way. That is not really it's not easy to
just undo. I mean, as we've seen, right, Donald
Trump backed off of mass deportations almost
immediately because big business doesn't want
it. And then because look like the level of violence
that you'd need to just physically deport 50
million people is going to be something that
the American people just aren't going to put
up with. I mean, you even see in Minnesota and
rightfully so. I completely understand it. But
you see like. You know, I saw one thing. I saw
that Trump had asked the ICE agents who were
going to the airports to not wear their masks.
And I was like, is that even an option? Why would
they be masked in the airport? Because they're
ICE agents. Because they can get doxxed. Well,
that's their concern. And look, I understand
that. It's a real concern. I understand that
concern. It's organized. But at the same time.
There is a balancing act there, and a lot of
people, like a lot of right -wingers, will say,
hey, look, if you came here illegally, then that's
a crime. You're here illegally. That's the law.
And, hey, I get that argument. But also the supreme
law of the land is the Constitution of the United
States of America. And I've seen a ton of videos
where there were masked ICE agents not even identifying
themselves, going up to people, telling them
that you have to answer my questions. You don't
have an option to walk away, which is like not
true at all. My take on it is that you can't
accept people that are masked, that don't have
any paperwork, that don't have a warrant on the
streets in militarized situations because. If
they're using it for this, which you agree to,
that opens up the door for them to use it because
you won't take your vaccine or because you did
this or did that or whatever the fuck it is.
If a different person gets in power, maybe they're
going to use it for something you don't support.
It's just not something you're supposed to accept.
That's right. You don't want to accept that president.
Here's something that someone told me that is
– this is a very credible source that I can't
reveal what the source is. But they told me that
there are people in this country and not just
a few, but many, many that are affiliated with
terrorist organizations, directly affiliated,
but they've applied for asylum. And because they've
applied for asylum, you can't deport them until
they go through the entire process. That is wild.
That is wild. So there's people that are known
at least. Terrorist sympathizers, they're in
direct communication with terrorist networks.
They've done things with terrorist networks and
they've applied for asylum. So you have to go
through this long ass process through the legal
system. And it's up to a judge whether or not
this person who may or may not be a part of a
fucking sleeper cell gets to stay in America.
Yeah. Suicidal empathy. That's what Gad Saad
calls it. You know, I think he's right. I think
he's got a fair point there with suicidal empathy
in terms of the idea of like that we that we
cannot say on some level that it's like, no,
look, we have a desire to preserve our society
and we want to do what's bad. We don't have to
out of some feeling of guilt. turn our country
into something worse than what it otherwise would
be. So I think he's got a point there. I think,
and look, I'm not a big fan of Gad. He literally
just, him and like Sam Harris and a few others,
they literally just trash me all the time and
refuse to engage on a single thing I've said.
So like, it'll just be, he calls me Wikipedia
Dave on Twitter. And it's a, well, look, I like
the guy. I have a different relationship with
him than you do. Well, that's true. And I'm a
big critic of Israel, and he's a Mossad agent.
So there is that. Do you think he is? He's admitted
that he worked for Mossad. In the past? Yes.
I guess he would say he's not currently. He retired.
I used to work for Newport Creamery. I don't
represent them anymore. I think it's a little
bit different with the Mossad thing. But I also
think that the big component that I think all
of those guys are missing is that. We also create
more enemies with our foreign policy. And that's
not to say that, like, you know, they always
kind of caricature my position on this. Like,
I'm not saying Islam is all peaceful and there
are no problems in the Islamic world or anything
like that. In fact, I don't think any religion
has truly always been peaceful. But, you know,
for guys like, say, like Sam Harris. who these
kind of like pretend intellectuals who have spent
he spent his entire career talking about how
violent and irrational the Muslims are and how
you can't even draw a cartoon of Muhammad or
Muslims want to do violent stuff. And like, hey,
fair enough. That's bullshit. And we should all
say, like, if you want to be over here in the
West, our values are free speech and you cannot
kill people for cartoons. But then like none
of them ever also go, hey. You know, murdering
an Ayatollah might be dangerous during Ramadan.
Yeah. Like that is, you know, that is not just
a political figure to Shiite Muslims. That is.
So at the same time, it's like, OK, I'm fine
with saying, OK, you don't want to have suicidal
empathy. My my my buddy Keith Knight, who's brilliant.
works over at the libertarian institute he had
i forget what he said but he he said something
like okay i don't want to have suicidal empathy
let's also not have homicidal empathy you know
and so like maybe it also is like as we were
tying into that whole conversation with no i'm
okay thanks um with the whole thing about the
the kids and women in gaza it's like it's also
the fact that if you just view slaughtering muslim
children in the middle east and in northern africa
as like just an acceptable political price. That's
just collateral damage. And unfortunately, that
happens when we pursue this policy. You're going
to deal with more and more of that. And the combination
of both, Joe, like the combination of having
open borders, having all these people get in
and continuing the war on terrorism and slaughtering
people in these numbers must be the most insane
combination ever. The idea that you'd be like,
we're going to just... Make an entire generation
of Muslims hate us because so many of them have
seen what we've done to their countries. And
also, we'll welcome all of them in with no checks
and we can't get rid of them when they come here.
That is quite a combination. Yeah, it's all nuts.
The Sam Harris thing, I should clarify this because
he's apparently talked about me again recently
on Bill Maher. We didn't not talk because it
was his idea. It was me. He wanted to do a podcast
with me. He wanted to do like a COVID, you know,
wrap up, like to, you know, go over everything
that happened, all the mistakes that were made
and his position, my position, because that's
where we kind of like separate. He was very pro
-vaccine. I said, I won't do that until you talk
to Brett Weinstein, that you need to talk to
Brett. Like, Brett, you... disparaged him publicly.
I think you said things that weren't correct.
You called him a conspiracy theorist and you
said you wouldn't platform him because it's dangerous.
I don't believe that's true. I believe the problem
is that Sam was incorrect about both the effectiveness
and the safety of the COVID vaccines. Brett was
correct. And Brett didn't insult Sam. Sam insulted
Brett. I mean, Brett said things about Sam since,
but it was Sam. I said, look, you got to talk
to him first. You can't just talk to me, you
know, especially because he's an actual evolutionary
biologist. Like he understands these things.
He knows what he's talking about. He's had multiple
conversations with high level vaccinologists
and all these different people that worked on
the mRNA vaccines. Like he was correct. We all
know that now. We know that all the things that
he was talking about, whether it's masking doesn't
work, social distancing. Lockdowns. Lockdowns.
Didn't work at all. All the above. All the above.
He didn't want to talk to Brett. And I said,
that doesn't make sense to me. Like, you talk
to everybody. You have debates with Muslims on
stage. Yeah, that's right. That doesn't make
any sense. Like, why wouldn't you talk to Brett?
I don't think he wanted to talk to Brett because
I think he didn't want to talk to Brett because
Brett's right. And I think it's indefensible.
No, I completely agree. I mean, you know, I had
a... By the way, I don't hate Sam. You know,
he could say all the crazy shit he wants. He
also said, like, I don't think you should interview
Gaddafi. Guess what? I would. If Gaddafi was
alive, 100 % I would interview Gaddafi. Gaddafi?
Did you ever hear Russell Crowe talk about Gaddafi?
I don't think so. He did a clip that went viral
that was on this show where he talked about why
they wanted to get rid of Gaddafi. Right. And,
like, where they talked about how evil Gaddafi
was and how he subjugated his people. Can you
see if you can find that? Russell Crowe on Gaddafi.
He wanted to create a United States of Africa.
Yeah. He wanted to get him on the gold standard.
He wanted to get him off the U .S. dollar. He
had some very dangerous ideas. Now, he also supported
Palestinian resistance. Yeah, that was it. There's
no sound thing in there? Oh, there it is. Here
it is. We are taught, for example, to regard
Gaddafi in a certain way. But if you look into...
what happened in his country while he was the
leader. You look into the fact that every person
is given a house at a certain age. You look at
the fact that everybody's education and health
care is free. You look at if somebody showed
a particular talent for something that required
further education overseas, all of the costs
of that were paid for by the government. Now,
these are all things put in place by the same...
country's leader that we're told is evil and
corrupt. It doesn't quite balance. Well, there's
also U .S. government interference. That is one
that we definitely monkeyed with. I mean, he
ran afoul of the United States government. There
was the famous clip with Hillary. I showed a
friend of mine the other day that he hadn't seen
it, and he couldn't believe it was real. Well,
she was on this show, and she gets unconfirmed
information first that they got Gaddafi, and
then she gets confirmed that he's dead. And she
goes, we came, we saw, he died. She was so excited
about it. But laughing. And then that led to
Libya, at least for a while, becoming a failed
state. Oh, it still is. It still is this whole
time, man. It's been a disaster. This episode
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and network management details. And, you know,
the thing is that they called that Hillary's
war. She was the Secretary of State at the time
under Barack Obama, but she's really the one.
one who championed that. And I believe Obama
wrote in his book that he was 50 -50 and that
Hillary really pushed him to that. And he said
his big regret was that he didn't think about
what came next after Gaddafi. Somehow we haven't
learned that lesson yet. Like after Iraq, you'd
never thought of that. Listen, but thank God
Trump's figured it out. Oh, yeah. Trump's figured
it out. We'll go in this drastic new direction
of getting the seventh war that they wanted.
Don't be a pussy, Dave. Jesus Christ. Did you
see that one, I don't know what military expert
was on television who said something about, I'm
a fan of boots on the ground, like Rome. Like,
hey, fucker, Rome didn't have nuclear weapons
and drones. Rome didn't have drones that hunt
you. What are you talking about, boots on the
ground? Should we fight with swords? Should we
get everybody to fight with swords? Is that what
you're saying? The fuck are you saying? Well,
also, like, what? What even is the plan with
boots on the ground? Like, what are you talking
about here? You're going to take an island? It
goes, OK, well, then you're going to be a target.
You're going to be target practice as long as
the Iranian regime is still standing. And if
you're talking about militarily occupying the
country like we did with Iraq or Afghanistan
or something like that, this is a huge country
with 92 million people. How many soldiers do
you think you need? To occupy that country. You
need a draft. At least half a million, and probably
you can't do it with that. So what are you talking
about here? And so you're saying, are we going
to start a draft for the least popular war going
in in American history? Because I don't think
that's happening. This is maybe slightly more
popular than Vietnam. Going in, it's less. I'm
sure Vietnam by the end was very, very unpopular.
Vietnam going in didn't make any sense, did it?
There's, I guess, the Gulf of Tonkin incident.
Most people in America were like, why are we
doing this? What's going on? You're drafting
people to go to Vietnam? We're fighting communism
in Vietnam? Yeah. What? Well, they called it
Vietnam syndrome that the American people had,
which is that we didn't want to fight a war again
after that. From their perspective, that's a
syndrome. And it's really something. They think,
by the way, Ben Shapiro used this same line called,
he said, Trump finally broke Iraq war syndrome.
Because they think, see, from Ben Shapiro's perspective,
the illness is after you lie the American people
into a war and slaughter a million people. The
illness isn't that. You might look at that as
the bad part, but the bad part is that these
annoying Americans have this tendency to not
want to do that again. After that. But he claims
Trump has broken Iraq war syndrome. Of course,
there's really no evidence with support of the
American people that that has changed at all.
And, you know, the George H .W. Bush was said
to have defeated Vietnam war syndrome in Panama
and in Iraq because they were relatively easy.
Right. You know, bloodless on the American side
or very, very limited, you know. Injuries and
deaths and and they you know, they weren't like
quagmires that went on forever or whatever but
of course after the Persian Gulf War in 92 we
went on to be bombing Iraq for Ever since essentially,
you know, I mean for 30 straight years after
that. Well, we were still at war with that country
for a million people being dead Yeah, what is
public support? Let's put that into our sponsor
perplexity. What is current public support? For
the Iran war in America. And first of all, how
they know no one's asked me You know I'm saying
that's a fair like that's what I would say about
about polls When was the last time you answered
a poll? When was the last time anybody called
you up and said, Dave – first of all, when was
the last time you ever picked up the phone if
you didn't know who was calling? And then when
you do answer, when was the last time you said
yes to a poll? I don't even remember ever getting
called. It has to be the dumbest of dumb people
that answer those polls. So then you got to realize
out of those stupid fucking idiots, even – how
many of them think the war is a good idea? It's
even unpopular amongst them. I mean – What does
it say here? Most recent national polls show
Americans overall oppose the current war with
Iran and think U .S. military action has gone
too far. A Quinnipiac poll finds 54 % of U .S.
voters oppose U .S. military action against Iran
and 39 % support it. I wonder how many of those
39 % are Jews. Well, not too much. We don't have
the numbers. A poll reports about six and – right.
What is the number of Jewish people in America?
Two percent? Something like that? Six in ten
adults say U .S. military action against Iran
has gone too far. Only about a quarter say it's
been about right. Twenty -five percent. First
of all, whenever you're talking about these kind
of things, it's like – Again, who are we talking
about? Who was asked? Finds Republicans largely
support the military action. Around 86 % support.
Whoa. Really? Because I talk to a lot of Republicans
and think it's a terrible idea. While large majorities
of Democrats, around 92%, and independents, about
64%, oppose it. 92%. Who are the 8 % of Democrats
that are like, let's fucking go? You think maybe
they're Jews? They work for CNN. You know, whatever.
CNN thinks it's a good idea? No. Dude, CNN is
running cover for Donald Trump during this time.
Come on. For real? Oh, yeah. No way. Yeah, they
put up a poll the other day. They had a graphic
that said 100 % of MAGA supports the Warren.
In Iran, there's it's like after all these years
say he liked it or something like that Oh, but
hold on a second likes me is that running cover
or is that making them look bad because most
Americans don't support the war and most Democrats
92 % don't support the war. So if that's the
case wouldn't that just make a look these MAGA
people are a fucking problem I I guess oh my
god MAGA GOP view of Trump. Can I hear how he
says it? Or would it be a problem? Okay. That
seems bonkers. It seems bonkers. Approve 100%.
How many people did you ask? Two. Two guys with
MAGA hats on in the party. If you notice the
way they say this, right? So they don't just
say GOP voters. They say MAGA GOP voters. And
so what they're doing here is that they're filtering
who they consider to be MAGA and who they consider
to be MAGA are the people who still say they
support Donald Trump. Almost like 100 % of the
people who don't support this war stopped supporting
Donald Trump over it. Right. But look at this
little thing on the bottom. They don't show you.
66%, 31 % split among. Non -MAGA. Right. Is that
non -MAGA Republicans? Is that what you're saying?
No, I think that's non -MAGA Americans, I believe.
The whole MAGA thing, it's like, we're so fractioned
as it is, like this whole idea of right versus
left as it is, and now you've got a MAGA section
of the right? It's all just ridiculous, dude.
But it's a way to describe it as anything other
than what it is, which is the most unpopular
war in American history going into it. And for
good reason. Look, dude, he didn't even bother
to sell us on a program. propaganda campaign
about it he was like the laziest like just lie
just lie us into it let's put on a fucking firm
tinfoil hat right now let's let's get a double
layer reynolds wrap fucking crease the edges
fold it down why would he want to do this why
would he want to look i am not denying that the
regime of Iran is a giant problem. I'm certainly
not denying that if I was Israel, I would not
want them there. They hate you. They're trying
to get a nuclear weapon. They're right there.
I get the Israel position. I totally understand
how they're so just vehemently in defense of
their homeland. They're surrounded by people
that hate them. They're the one Jewish country.
Everyone else is a Muslim. They all want to caliphate.
They all want to kill them. It's been going on
forever. They think it's in... God's word that
they have. It's a lot of craziness. I get it.
Why now? Like, why now? Like, what does that
make any sense? Well, Trump himself has said,
which literally this would be like considered
an anti -Semitic conspiracy theory if anyone
else had said it. But Donald Trump has openly
talked about many times. How the Adelson's give
them all this money and they come by every day
and all they have is another demand on behalf
of Israel. Donald Trump also very early in his
political career got in trouble with the Israel
lobby and then immediately pivoted to blaming
to winning their favor back over by saying he
would tear up the JCPOA, the Iran deal that Obama
got us into. And it looks to me. You know, there's
speculation aside, who knows exactly what control
they have over the guy. But it looks to me that
after Venezuela and when there were these big
street protests and riots against the regime
and around there, that they convinced Trump.
And this is what Joe Kent, his director of counterterrorism,
has said, too, that they essentially convinced
him that this would be the time. You could do
it swiftly, surgically remove the regime, and
the people would rise up and overthrow it. And
this is what Donald Trump said when he launched
this war. He said, this is a regime change, and
I'm calling on the great people of Iran to rise
up. And they did. They rose up by at least the
hundreds of thousands. They were out in Tehran
in defense of the regime chanting death to America.
Because it turns out when you kill 165 little
girls. That doesn't make a country go, we love
you. Thank you for that. Right. But before the
bombing, there were people in the streets that
were protesting. Yes. And people were killed
because of that. A lot. That's the other thing
is that that regime is like they. They clamp
down, and they do it with public figures. They
killed a very prominent wrestler from Iran. Two
of them. They killed one a few years back. The
UFC tried to step in and somehow or other stop
it, but he was also one that was accused of protesting
against the government. Listen, I don't know
about this most recent one. I'm not saying this
is true at all. I don't trust any governments,
but they claimed he killed a few cops. That's
what the Iranian regime said he was being hung
for. Now, I don't know. Yeah, the wrestler. Oh,
I didn't see that. He was convicted of that,
whatever that means in a mullah run court. So
I'm not saying that's right at all. But I will
say this, right? Donald Trump, when he launched
this war, and there's been a whole lot of just
false claims that have been made. But he said
specifically that they killed 32 ,000 protesters.
There has not been a shred of evidence presented.
To back up this claim. Now, I'm not saying it's
not true. I'm not putting it past this government
that they would do that. And they've acknowledged
that a lot of people have died. I think they
I think the last I had seen was that I know they
were saying the government of Iran is before
the Ayatollah was killed. They were saying it
was something like 3000. People had died. And
then the CIA. But when you say died, does it
mean they killed? Well, that's unclear. That's
that's not what they are claiming. But then the
CIA, at least there was a piece in the Washington,
excuse me, in The Wall Street Journal where they
had said, and this was like a week and a half
into it, that they estimated like six. and a
half thousand or something like that. But this
is a huge question, right? And it's not clear
at all. Like, were they lining people up and
just executing them for the crime of protesting?
They hung the wrestler. But I'm saying the people
who have been killed here. Iran protest death
toll could top 30 ,000, according to local health
officials. And this is from Time magazine. As
many as 30 ,000 people could have been killed
in the streets of Iran on January 8th and 9th
alone. Two senior officials of the country's
Ministry of Health told Time, indicating a dramatic
surge in the death toll. So many people were
slaughtered by Iranian security services that
Thursday and Friday it overwhelmed the state's
capacity to dispose of the dead. Stocks of body
bags were exhausted, the official said, and 18
-wheel semi -trailers replaced ambulances. Now,
listen, all I'm saying here, man, is that you've
got to be—I've just seen this movie play out
a lot of times. You've got to be really careful
about these accusations that are made in the
run -up to a war. They're basically saying, we
have a source who told us this. What year was
this? I mean, excuse me, what date was this?
January 25th. So the protest started in late
December and then in January. Time was unable
to independently verify these figures. That's
right. Listen, the claim being made here, right,
is that, look, in this place, they said in two
days, in two days, 30 ,000 people were killed.
If that is true. That is up there with one of
the biggest massacres in human history. The biggest
massacres during World War II were like around
that. It says, as of Saturday, U .S.-based human
rights activist news agency had confirmed 5 ,459
deaths and is investigating 17 ,000 more. Yes.
So that's at least close. So we're in the neighborhood.
We're in the 20s. Just if what they're investigating
turns out to be accurate. If that's if that's
the case. But we're talking also here, Joe, about
like any defunded U .S. based NGOs who are really
around hawks, you know. And so and I'm just saying,
like, look, the the claim the claim here is that.
Around, you know, I saw a bunch of the Zionists
online when this was first coming out back in
January. They were like, oh, my God, they've
already killed half as many people as died in
Gaza in just a couple days. And you're like,
right. That's a pretty that's a hell of a claim.
Right. I mean, like if you just from following
wars all these years, if you started carpet bombing
Tehran, Vietnam style carpet bombing Tehran after
two days. That's the type of death toll you'd
be looking at well the thing was we don't they
don't have internet access well They shut down
the internet during that period yeah, but there
were pictures that came out all I'm saying is
that if you had numbers like that you would expect
there to be some evidence that you could point
to and there's like one picture where they've
pointed to like a couple dozen body bags and
been like see look at this but Look, maybe it's
true. Maybe it's not. I'm very skeptical of these
claims when they're made right before we launch
a war. But I think the other point is that, at
least according, and there has been some evidence
of this, right? There were police stations that
were burned. There were mosques that were attacked.
These were not just peaceful protests. I'm not
saying they don't have a right to violently rise
up and overthrow their government, whatever.
All the hawks in the West were saying these people
are trying to overthrow their government. Not
only that, in the past, our agencies, our intelligence
agencies, have engaged in nefarious practices
where we have conscripted certain people to go
and light things on fire and blow things up and
create these events to accelerate. Front page
of the Jerusalem Post, they were bragging that
there was Mossad. Within the protests. So now
look, I don't know. But also the thing is this,
right? If you are trying to overthrow a government,
a government will kill you for doing that. And
that's true about every government, including
our own. Including our own. If armed protesters
went to try to overthrow Barack Obama's government,
he would kill those people if they were actually
a threat to do that. How about Ashley Babbitt
was murdered on January 6th? And every single
left -winger in the country went, well, that's
okay. It was an insurrection. And by the way,
every single right -winger in this country, when
this pretty guy... got killed were like, well,
he was interfering. Oh, I saw it. But by the
way, the pretty thing was the most textbook example
of a bad shooting. There's just no defending
it. They had disarmed the guy. He's down. There's
six of them. They panic. They put six bullets
in. Do you know what happened, though? Do you
know? Do you know the whole story of the gun?
The gun being removed? Yeah. Do you know the
whole story about the gun? No. Okay. The gun
is a Sig P320. Right. A Sig P320 is notorious
for accidental discharges. Right. There is a
video of the cop removing the gun, walking off.
Yes, I saw that. And the gun goes off. Is that
his gun for sure? Yeah. Because I thought that
hadn't been determined whether or not. I heard
people speculating about that. I've watched the
video multiple times and I've watched other people's
analysis of it. Obviously, I'm no expert, but
I do know something about guns. And that gun
in particular, it's been demonstrated online
that it will go off. There's a cop inside of
a precinct. He bends over, not touching his gun,
gun in the holster, and it goes off. There's
a video of a guy on a range and a gun just goes.
off and he goes whose fucking gun was that and
the range master goes is that a sig and he goes
yeah he goes get that fucking gun off of my range
wow Because it's a P320. I should be real clear.
Sig makes a bunch of guns that are awesome. Like
the P365 is like one of the best carry guns in
the world. There's a lot of guns they make that
don't have this issue. But that particular gun
that Pretty had with one in the chamber is fucking
knuckleheads walking around with one in the chamber.
Absolutely. I'm just saying the only point I'm
making is that. It's clearly it was a fuck up.
I'm not saying like they wanted to execute the
guy. I'm just saying like they had the gun taken
from them. They didn't communicate that to each
other. They freaked out. But literally all it
took was seeing one video 11 days earlier where
he kicked the back of a cop car. Right. And for
every right winger to go, yeah, whatever, dude,
got what you deserve. So all my point is about
this, looking at this in the Iranian regime.
It's just not clear. Like, what are you actually
accusing them of? Are you saying that somebody
was trying to overthrow the government and the
government mowed them down? Are you saying that
they lined up protesters and shot them all in
the back of the head simply for voicing their
opinion? Like, none of this is made clear. But
when the war drums are beating, no one even cares
to ask these questions. It's just like, yeah,
they killed their own people. And then if you
notice with this war, much like with Venezuela
and almost like with all of them, they just keep
giving you like they throw like 50. 15 justifications
at it, you know, and you're like, wait, which
one is the reason we're fighting this? Because
I saw that all of them like to play the humanitarian
card and go, we're doing this to, you know, for
these oppressed people. We want them to rise
up. They've been living under this brutal regime.
And you're like, OK, two things like number one.
That is simply just not how U .S. foreign policy
works. We don't fight wars on humanitarian grounds.
You know what I mean? Like we're partners with
some of the most brutal authoritarians in the
world. And we've and in the case of like Israel,
we've been funding their destruction of Gaza
for the last two and a half years. And so like
that's not really what's motivating this here.
And then number two. Donald Trump, even just
the other day, said he'll be partners with the
new Ayatollah and run the Strait of Hormuz together.
Did he say that? Yeah. He's backed off of regime
change. Are they even talking to him? Is someone
talking to him? Who is he talking to? Do they
know who they're talking to? Because it's not
like they're meeting in person. Some guy's on
the phone. I am free to negotiate. Dude, he said,
Donald Trump himself said the other day. That
he goes, we're negotiating. Negotiations are
going great. And they go, who are you negotiating
with? And he goes, a person we believe to be
in charge. And then they said, so is this the
new supreme leader? And he said, no. No. No one's
heard from that guy. We don't know where he is.
It's some hacker in his basement in Belarus.
And he's talking with an Iranian accent. And
he's got them convinced. Well, it's just. I have
the authority to negotiate. Let's be partners.
Let's be for wire. One million Bitcoin to this
address. Well, everything I'm seeing publicly
reported today is that Iran is like, no, we're
not in these negotiations. We've made our terms
clear and their terms. What they're asking for
is something that Donald Trump is not going to
be able to give. What's that? Their their their
demands were that we. we stop attacking immediately,
like that part they might get, that we pay them
restitution for all the damage so far. Essentially
that we leave the region. I mean, they had a
few other things there that were just like. And
they want them to open up a Terry Black's in
Tehran. This one was really important to us.
If we could just get one. One Terry Black's barbecue.
We don't have a good barbecue here. It doesn't
seem like, If he's not really negotiating with
this guy, if it's like – if that's not true and
he's just like putting this out there in the
public as like a negotiation ploy, what a clusterfuck.
Because you're dealing with people that don't
mind dying. They believe – I mean these are very
religious people. They're fanatical. They believe
they're going to go to heaven. They believe they're
martyrs and they're fighting for Allah. This
is the just and holy war. And they've been attacked.
Well, that's right. And they've been preparing
for this for a long time. You know, people make
a lot out of the chants that the Iranians, you
know, they chant death to America. What do you
got there, Jimmy? Sorry. And who's in control
of it? Will Iran still be able to control the
flow of oil? Be jointly controlled. By who? Maybe
me. Maybe me. Me and the Ayatollah, whoever the
Ayatollah is, whoever the next Ayatollah. Look,
and there'll also be a form of a very serious
form of a regime change. Now, in all fairness,
everybody's been killed from the regime. There's
automatically a regime change. But we're dealing
with some people that I find to be very reasonable,
very solid. The people within know who they are.
They're very respected. and maybe one of them
will be exactly what we're looking for. Look
at Venezuela, how well that's working. I mean,
dude, this is such a fucking mess. This is such
a mess, dude. I mean, this is just too ridiculous,
dude. And, you know, the thing is that a lot
of people, you know, I've spent a long time at
this point being against this war, because this
war has been telegraphed since, you know, the
Bush administration wanted to do this shit. And
at least for, like, 15 years I've been publicly
opposing this war. And one of the reasons why
so many of us oppose this, and it's a shitty
way to be vindicated, but is that, look, Iran
is just not like any of the other opponents in
the global war on terrorism. It's a different
beast entirely. And you've seen this already
only three weeks in. We never dealt with any
of this with any of the other countries. You
know what I mean? We had what the Pentagon calls
escalation dominance in all of those other wars,
which is all essentially like it's just like
meaning like if you do this, we do this. If you
do that, like we're prepared for everything.
It's kind of like escalation dominance is a lot
like you're like in jujitsu where you see really
high level guys who basically put you in a position
where you can make one of two choices in either
way. So like, OK, you can you can give me your
back and I'll choke you or you can push off me
and I'll arm bar you. And, you know, like whatever
option you have, I'm going to get you. We don't
have that with Iran. And Pentagon's been open
about this since at least 2007. And the fact
is that, as we're already seeing, they can target
ships in the Strait of Hormuz. They can target
our assets, our bases, our embassies in the region.
They can target our allies. And this is a big
problem. And so like. It seems like Donald Trump
got into this thinking it would be like Venezuela.
It would be quick and bloodless and easy and
he could claim victory. Now that it's not gone
that way, it seems like he's kind of scrambling
for what the what the off ramp is here. Now,
at least I give Donald Trump as angry as I am
with him. Like, at least it is true that he's
looking for an off ramp, it seems like. And he
did this with the 12 day war. Right. Like he
started the war. He saw an off -ramp, and he
took it. The problem here really is that this
war changed the calculation from the Iranian
perspective, and that much is clear so far. After
9 -11, all the countries in the Middle East and
North Africa, all the ones – essentially they
all waved the white flag, all of them. Saddam
Hussein welcomed UN inspectors in. He was trying
to do anything he could to not meet the fate
that he ultimately met. Gaddafi denuclearized,
got rid of chemical weapons. Bashar al -Assad
got rid of all his chemical weapons. They were
all just like, we don't want it with you. And
Iran was very much the same way. They got into
the JCPOA. They allowed an inspections regime
in to come look at their nuclear facilities,
all of that. And even up to the 12 -day war,
when we dropped the bunker buster. Israel bombed
a whole bunch of regime targets. They still,
in their response, called ahead, made sure there'd
be no U .S. troops there. They hit the side of
a little base there. And then they kind of went
like they gave Trump an off ramp because they
didn't want it. You know, they didn't want it.
They don't want to die like Muammar Gaddafi.
They don't want to, you know, have their country
destroyed. So for self -preservation reasons,
they showed restraint. The calculation this time,
clearly already from the Iranians, was that.
We can't do that again. We have to give you a
bloody nose and a black eye. We have to make
this cost as much as possible for you. Otherwise,
you guys will just be back here in another five
months doing it again. And they're probably right
about that. They're probably right. And so now.
We're in this situation where we're already in
a quagmire. It's already like over a dozen Americans
have died. I think a couple hundred wounded at
this point. Israel isn't given real numbers on
what's going on there, but there's some pretty
substantial damage and definitely some Israelis
have died. And I'm sure thousands of Iranians
have died at this point. It's cost. I mean, Pete
Higgs has just asked for $200 billion. I don't
know if it'll get up to cost him that much, but
this thing is certainly already in the tens of
billions. If you consider munition, military
movements, and then just the damage to embassies
and bases and stuff like that. I mean, this thing
is already a disaster. And so now it's not like
Venezuela, where Donald Trump could just stop
and declare victory and even say, like, look
how great it's working out. Is Venezuela really
working out that great? I don't know. That's
you know, we took one guy away. The regime's
still in place. The people haven't been liberated,
but whatever. He can claim that this now. The
problem here is that, OK, number one, Donald
Trump's not really in a situation where if he
just quit right now. How is he really going to
say, look how wonderful this is? It's like, I
don't know, dude, this cost a lot already. And
it doesn't seem like there's any clear, like,
what did we get out of this? Well, the only way
it would work is if there was some sort of a
deal with whoever the fuck is going to be the
new guy in charge. And they did come to some
sort of an agreement. And they did give them
some compensation for all the shit we blew up.
Yes. So they'll just print some more money for
that. Sure. And inflation will go up. But look,
here's the thing is that it's not just Donald
Trump. There's two other participants in this
war or two other entities in this war. There's
Iran and there's Israel. OK, now, is Iran going
to accept that? Maybe. But look, just like the
12 day war. Look at the position you're in now.
We're relying on the mullahs. You know what I
mean? Like it's that that is not an ideal situation
to be in. And then the other factor is that there's
Israel, who also gets a say in this for some
reason, because we allow them to. Netanyahu just
the other day was very clear about this. This
is a regime change. And he even said it will
require ground forces. And he said he's not sure
who those ground forces will be yet. And so now
this happened. Do you remember the moment during
the 12 -day war when it was the closest Trump
ever came to like flipping out on Israel? And
he said they don't know what the fuck they're
doing. But he said Israel and Iran don't know
what the fuck they're doing. Because Donald Trump,
so after he drops the bunker busters. He goes,
that's it. We're you know what I mean? We're
taking the off ramp. And then he said, I want
to work out a ceasefire now. And then after he
said that, Israel just started lighting up regime
targets, just bombing the crap out of them. And
they weren't bombing nuclear facilities. They
were just bombing like government buildings.
And they've been doing a bunch of that in this
war as well. Bombing local police departments,
things like that, just creating chaos because
what they want is. what they've been getting
in the rest of the war on terrorism they're they
they are quite happy with a libya model or a
syria model they don't want anyone that's organized
as a threat to israel they don't it's it's all
about around support for hezbollah yeah is that
they want southern lebanon which they just uh
cats their defense minister just announced that
they're going to occupy yeah that's crazy right
they just announced they're going to be occupying
another country that's what it's about man and
and look i mean it's not Again, this isn't like
a conspiracy theory. The guys all tell you this
in their own words. Benjamin Netanyahu was asked
point blank a few months back what he thought
of the Greater Israel Project. And he said, it's
very near and dear to my heart. Like, this is
the point of denying the Palestinians a state
for all these years. You can't let the Palestinians
have a state because then how are you going to
take that all over someday? That's all supposed
to be part of Israel. And the U .S. ambassador,
the U .S. ambassador, not the Israeli ambassador,
the U .S. ambassador to Israel, is on record
saying that God promised Iraq to Benjamin Netanyahu.
That God promised Lebanon and Saudi Arabia and
the West Bank and parts of Syria. All of this
is greater Israel. By the way, Sam Harris, where
are you out on that? Where are the new atheists
when you could finally use them for something?
Hey, that's pretty crazy. Is that how we do politics?
We work on this ridiculous religious superstition
that somehow when God said Israel in Genesis,
he was referring to the state that was created
that they named after that passage. This would
literally be on the level, Joe, is if I named
my son Jesus Christ and then I told you you have
to worship my son. Look, it's right there in
your Bible. Exactly. No, you named it after that,
dude. Yeah. That doesn't count. That's crazy.
And they took the spot where it was. Yeah. I
mean, like. They took over and they did it in
a horrific way. Like the napka. Yeah. Yeah. You
listen to some of those soldiers, the translation
of some of those soldiers talking about what
they did and even laughing about what they did.
Some of them even smiling. In 1948. Yeah, because
it's not, it wasn't in 1848. Right. You know
what I mean? Like these guys were alive. Maybe
not so many of them now, but like 20, 30 years
ago, you could put a video account. in front
of one of these guys and ask him to tell their
story. Right. It was like 78 years ago. It wasn't
that long ago. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. That's
right. And so, you know, look, I mean, the idea
here that America, after just 25 years of catastrophic
failures, launching wars of choice, wars of aggression,
lying the American people into it, just slaughtering.
Millions of people and like bankrupting this
country and really severely degrading the country
with these wars. The idea that we would jump
into another war of choice for Israel is just
too like this is too crazy, man. And especially
when it's the administration that that really.
ran on and promised that we want to get out of
this, out of this game of fighting stupid wars
in the Middle East. Yeah, that was what we were
all supporting. That was the one thing that he
was saying that was so promising to so many people
that were independent, that were on the fence.
Like, this guy wants no wars. All right. He wants
closing the border, which I think is a great
idea. He wants no wars. That enough. Let's go.
Well, especially considering the fact that...
Well, well, like even if there are some things
about Donald Trump that maybe you don't like,
but the other guys are saying we want to keep
fighting forever wars. And this guy is saying
we should stop doing that. That's enough to go.
Well, then he's better than you on net. And don't
get me wrong. I mean, I I endorse Donald Trump
in 24. You know, people give me shit for that.
Some people like that. Some people give me shit
for it. But I do. I kind of view it like this.
Like and I really I will say maybe I'm a little
biased here because I love you. But I don't think
I'm being biased. I really think you played an
enormous role in kind of like standing up to
the progressive democratic establishment and
their narrative over the last decade or so. And
it's really hard to kind of overstate how crazy
they were, how much of a threat to this country
they were. And for anybody who wants to give
shit to anyone who voted for Donald Trump, it's
like, hey, man. The alternative was the party
who bragged about, first off, insane woke shit,
like poisoning the minds of children in a really
grotesque and abusive way. They gave us. open
borders, flooding the country with people. They
gave us all types of COVID tyranny based on pseudoscience.
They gave us the most reckless foreign policy
in American history, which was this proxy war
on Russia's border. And they were pretending
the president wasn't senile when he clearly was.
Then they, in the fourth quarter, threw up a
cackling retard who was not democratically picked
in any process. And so, sorry. Like, it does
make sense that a lot of people went, okay. We're
going to go back with with this other guy. Yeah.
Also, there was an interesting dynamic happening
in 24 where, OK, this wasn't, you know, Donald
Trump. They had actually tried to throw him in
jail, maybe even tried to murder him. We never
really got any answers on that one. He now had
Bobby Kennedy with them. He now had Tulsi Gabbard
with him. He now had. Oh, you know what I mean?
Even J .D. Vance, like a lot of these people
who were supposedly much more non interventionist.
There was reason to hope that maybe it wouldn't
end up here. But anyway, I guess my thing is
that you played such a huge role in this. And
I, to a lesser extent, played a role in standing
up against a lot of that progressive insanity
over the last 10 years. And I just feel like
after 24, you know, this coalition came together
where Donald Trump, for the first time ever,
wins the popular vote, wins every single swing
state, and really more remarkably, won the youth
and the culture. Like Donald Trump went from
being like the cultural pariah to being the guy
like John Jones is doing the dance. And it was
just it was. And that whole coalition has been
destroyed over this war. And now he's going to
hand the country right back over to these Democrats
who we've been fighting so hard. All for what?
all for a war that Netanyahu wanted against a
country that, dude, by the way, the justification
for the 12 -day war was bullshit. They weren't
trying to make nuclear weapons. They were trying
to negotiate. At least they got out of that unscathed
relatively. Well, that's right. But then, and
I want to, you know, he said some nice things
about me when he was on here the other day with
you, so I will say some nice things about Konstantin
Kassin, who, despite our disagreements, I really
like that guy a lot. But he is, I could be wrong,
I could be missing someone. He's the only guy
I've seen. Who supported the 12 -day war but
is really skeptical about this and I've seen
so many people it's unbelievable Dude, like they
they just so like the 12 -day war comes for the
first 48 hours of it They're like dude Israel's
doing this on its own. All they want is for you
to stay out of it Then like the third day, they're
like, all right, they do need some help shooting
down the missiles that are coming back toward
them. But whatever, this is just defensive. You
know what I mean? Like you don't have to get
involved. Then it's like the next day, like,
all right, we don't we don't have bunker busters.
So we do need you to drop the bunker busters.
But then their whole like defense of the 12 day
war was like, look, no Americans died. It didn't
cost us a lot. It didn't turn into this disaster.
And now. And we're at the, okay, well, fine,
all of that happened, but it's still a good thing.
Constantine was the one guy I saw who was like,
no, I supported that one, but I am not getting
on board with this one. And I give him a lot
of credit for that. I give him a lot of credit
for that. I like that guy a lot. I like them
a lot. I like Francis a lot, too. I do, too.
Their show, Trigonometry, is one of the best
shows. Agree with them or not agree with them.
They're always reasonable. They're never ideologically
driven. They have opinions that you may or may
not agree with, but they're real clear about
their opinions and why they believe what they
believe. Yeah, that's right. And they're great
guys. Yeah, genuinely good dudes. Great guys.
I really liked, you know, I get in a lot of,
like, the shit show, like, arguments. I find
myself in them. I probably should be better than
them and just not. engaged, but I'm not and I'm
petty. What do you mean by shit show? Like where
it just becomes like an insult thing or, you
know, I debated Alex Barron. It's kind of embarrassing
in hindsight, but like, I don't know. It gets
me really angry when the guy's calling me a Holocaust
denier or something like that. I think that's
crazy. What he was saying was kind of silly.
The way he was saying it was silly, and he was
just trying to play gotcha with you, and then
you called him a faggot. Yeah, it's not my finest
moment. You can tell he was really shaken by
that. I don't think he expected that. I kind
of have a thing where, like, look, I'm really
into this shit, and I nerd out on it, and I'm
obsessed with all of this for whatever reason.
It's just, like, my calling in life. But I'm
also stand -up comic at heart, you know? And
so, like, as soon as someone goes, like, oh,
I want to be vicious, you're like, oh, you want
to be vicious? Because I'm pretty good at being
vicious, so I could do that. And you're probably
not used to hearing this type of vicious shit
that comics say to each other. But one of the
things that I really appreciated about Francis
and Constantine was when I went to do their show,
it was just like, it was genuinely a good faith
conversation. They weren't trying to win. the
point or get a clip that they could go, we destroyed
Dave. And then once they do that, I'm like, OK,
well, then I'm not trying to do that either,
man. Like, let's talk about this shit. That's
always what I'd rather do. But the thing that's
I guess the thing that's really interesting about
this moment is that because the kind of corporate
media propaganda apparatus has been completely
destroyed and because the Internet and social
media and podcasts are where people go now for
for. you know, conversations and debates and
news and all this stuff. They're kind of like
they're like they're running without a propaganda
apparatus. You know, like Israel just Israel
in the last two and a half years is down like
50 points in the polls, like in terms of. American
approval. It's a drastic change like I've never
seen on any issue over the last few years. In
our lifetimes where it's been an issue that we
are dealing with the consequences of the relationship.
There's never been a time in the past where people
were completely aware of, oh, there's no other
reason why we'd be going into Iran. Most people
don't think it wasn't for Israel asking us to,
Netanyahu's consistent visits to the White House.
Oh, you can't even pretend otherwise. But people
do. Yes, well, they try to. Coleman Hughes just
got in a debate with Glenn Greenwald about it.
I saw that they did it. I have not had a chance
to watch it. Somebody sent it to me, and I'm
being a good boy when it comes to social media.
It's been so good for my brain. It's kind of
remarkable. Just staying off, you mean. Yeah.
My new phone, I'm not going to put anything on
it. I'm going to have my old phone and leave
it at home, and I'm not going to be able to look
at it. So when I have to post things, I've got
to post it on my other phone that's not going
to be with me. I'm not doing that anymore. Because
I just think eventually, ultimately, it rots
your brain. But you do get some cool debates
and some insight into what's going on, and I
don't know what Coleman's argument was. but Glenn
and Coleman were arguing about Israel's influence
on this. Well, I'll be very interested to watch
that. I do respect Coleman, despite disagreeing
with him very adamantly on this stuff. Very smart
guy. Very smart guy, no question about it. And
a very nice guy, too. And look, one of the things
I really respect about him is when I did his
show, he literally starts it by going, he goes,
you know, almost all these debates I see you
in, like you're kind of debating issues, and
then people just debate your character. And he
goes, I'm not doing that at all. I want to talk
about the issues the whole time. No, he doesn't
do that at all. And I just genuinely appreciate
that. I agree with him or disagree with him.
He's a super reasonable guy and a very nice guy.
I like him a lot. I like him a lot. Whether I
agree with him or disagree with him, he's a wonderful
person. This – agreed. This is what I will say
about his position on this, which I think is
kind of interesting. So number one, when I was
on Piers Morgan with him right after Venezuela
happened and – He was his position. I don't want
to mischaracterize it, but I think this is pretty
accurate, was he was like, look, a lot of people
are comparing Venezuela to Iraq or Libya or Syria.
But like that is a different region, a different
culture, a different religion. And so really
what we should be comparing this to is other
interventions in in Latin America and South America.
And, you know, I didn't completely agree with
that. I was like, actually, I think there are
some lessons you could learn from. other wars
that we've been in that might apply here but
I was like okay fair enough hey let's look at
other interventions in Central and South America
because we've got a long list of really disastrous
ones like if you want to look at Guatemala or
Nicaragua or you know Cuba Mexico a whole bunch
um but then when this war in Iran starts I don't
see him going the equal opposite of that Going,
hey, now that we're at war with Iran, we have
to judge this by Iraq and Afghanistan and Libya
and Syria. Because you know what I'm saying?
Like that would be the flip side to the other
position. And so I don't see that. The other
thing is that when he's arguing with me about
because I was arguing that, you know, that is
the Israel lobby and the Israeli government were
a huge part of why we fought the war in Iraq.
And his big point that he stuck to a lot of the
hawks stick to this is that Ariel Sharon. who
was the sitting prime minister at the time, he
was actually against the war in Iraq. That's
not exactly true. He wanted George W. Bush to
invade Iran first, not Iraq. And then when he
got assurances that Iran would be next, he got
on board. You could go look at Sharon's speech.
He gave a speech, I think it was in August of
2002, to the Knesset. And it's all about how
Iraq is the biggest threat. They have weapons
of mass destruction. The Mossad was cranking
out all types of BS intelligence about the nuclear
weapons that he could detonate in 15 minutes
or whatever. It was all nonsense. If you're going
to say that that is evidence that Israel was
not pushing us into this because the sitting
prime minister at the time didn't like this war.
OK, but again, then how does the current sitting
prime minister of Israel feel about this war
in Iran? Because he's fighting it with us. And
he said after it started that this is the culmination
of his entire life's work. He has been trying
to lie our government into this war for my entire
lifetime. Coming here, he testified how many
times in front of our Congress? Do you remember
the one where he testified with the cartoon of
a bomb? At the UN. Cartoon. A bomb cartoon with
percentages of the enriched uranium. And like
a Daffy Duck bomb. Not like the bomb that will
blow your beak around. A bowling ball with a
fuse. And he was already up real high. He was
already up real high. No, dude, he was on record
saying that Iran was three to five years away
from getting a nuclear weapon in the 90s. In
the 90s, yeah. I mean, he's just been lying through
his teeth. And there is something, look, man,
there's something really profoundly dishonorable
about trying to lie another country into war.
Like, not even trying to sell the war to your
own people and have your own military do it.
But because you can't. There it is. Yeah, there
we are. We were up to 90%. First stage. No, it
was first stage we were at. He was saying they've
hit the first stage. Oh, oh, oh, excuse me. Okay,
yeah, you're right. I guess this is, we can't,
we can't go any further. It's just so ridiculous.
And he knows, he knows he's lying. He's like
your friend that, like, you've been friends with
since high school. And every time you go out,
he gets you in a fight. You're like, dude, don't
do this. Those guys over there are a fucking
problem. Let's go over there and fuck them up.
And all your buddies are like, dude, this guy
again? Did I use that exact analogy when I debated
Josh Hammer at Princeton University? Or maybe
it was with the Charlie Cargill. It was one of
the times I debated him. But I used that exact
analogy. He was like, is Israel an ally? And
I was like, no. They're not a good friend. If
your friend's getting you in a bar fight every
night, stop hanging out with that guy. Bro, Tim
Dillon did an ad for NeuroGum and NeuroMints
on his podcast where he's like, I have a friend.
Let's just call her Erica. And he does this Erica
Kirk ad. He doesn't say it's Erica Kirk for NeuroGum.
Have you heard of Jamie? I think so. Oh, my God.
Oh, my God. It's so funny. Oh, my God. It's so
crazy. He's so out of his – I fucking love him
so much. I'm so happy Tim Dillon's in the world.
He is the – He's the best. If you're not listening
to his podcast and you want a rational but hilarious
take on all the fucking madness that's going
on with not just this war but the Epstein Files,
his episode of the Epstein Files, I hardly ever
tweet about other people's – Podcasts, but I
hardly ever tweet, but I posted it I'm like this
is one of the best podcasts about anything ever
his ability Tim's ability to like rant it like
unprecedented it like a Hilarious rants that
is laced with excellent points, but it's just
hilarious the whole time and just him going off
is Second to none. And he's sober. He just puts
on his magic glasses. It's him and Fuentes are
the top two. But he buries Fuentes. Fuentes is
really good. Fuentes has... Tim can do something
different than anybody else can do. Yeah, well,
his ability to blend sarcasm and just celebration
of chaos. Yeah, it's second to none. He's the
best ranter that's ever walked the face of the
planet. I remember when I first met Tim in New
York. Back before he moved out to L .A. after
that. But when I first met him in New York and
he was I think like he was a green stand up.
I think he hadn't been doing it for that long.
But I remember just like being on podcasts with
him and just being like, yo, this dude is going
to be a fucking superstar. Like it was just like
his his ranting like a bill like he would go
off on things where you just find yourself like.
Like, you almost have a moment where you forget
you're on the show with him. Yeah. You're like,
I'm just sitting here watching. And then I'm
like, oh, shit, I'm here, too. I better say something.
But, like, he's just unbelievable. Listen to
this ad. Listen to this ad. I don't know if I
should tell this, but it does show how effective
Neuromint can be. A friend of mine, let's call
her Erica. She's had a wild life, this woman.
She was in Romania. She had an orphanage. She
was on a reality show. She married this famous
guy. She was an intelligence asset. And I said
to her, how do you do this? And she says, Tim,
it's Neuro's Energy and Focus Mints. And I said,
but how do you do it after the guy, the husband
and father of the kids gets murdered and you're
out there? doing all kinds of stuff you're doing
fundraisers and you're dancing around with glitter
pants how does this happen she goes i could lie
to you but i'm telling you it's neuro's energy
and focus mints really she goes sure i said how
are you running this organization seven hours
after this guy got popped she goes a lot of people
speculate but it's neuro's energy and focus mints
I go, really? She said, yeah, Neuro Energy and
Focus is powered by natural green tea caffeine,
L -theanine for calm, focus, and vitamin B12,
and B6 for... I mean, whatever they're paying
him, they should pay him more. Yeah, it's not
enough. No one can pay him enough. He's the GOAT.
Well, that'll also just make you remember that
product forever. Yeah. No, he's the greatest
of all time. I'm trying to figure out how to
turn our racetrack sign on all the way. Is it
broken? Goddamn, we need a new one? I'll get
a hold of Bobby. He's the GOAT, dude. I had someone
in the White House come up to me and go, is Tim
Dillon really gay? I go, yeah, he's really gay.
You think he would fake that? He goes, how long
have you known him? I go, I've known him forever.
He's really gay. Yeah, well, he's a real good
undercover, but every now and then you see it
come out. Every now and then you see, like, I
remember, and this is back when he was young,
and he was broke at the time. But Tim was always
kind of a snob, even when he was broke. Like,
it was always kind of. And I went, I forget what
it was, but I was like, oh, we could get food
from this restaurant. And he goes, from there?
I go, yeah, they got good food. And he goes.
You think that's good food? Because he's like
a real foodie or whatever. And I was just like,
oh, I saw it for a second there. Well, he used
to have money because he had money when he was
selling. He had money in finance. Then he decided
to be. Subprime mortgages. He was a part of the
housing crisis. That's right. And he was doing
cocaine back then. He did topple the U .S. economy
for a while. He was part of it. But then he got
into comedy. He more than made up for it. He's
more than made up for that. This is where he
belongs. Yeah. He belongs in front of that screen
with the glasses on, just going on these insane
rants. Oh, yeah. He's so funny, man. His Epstein
Files take was fucking genius, man. That was
great. Dude, his thing about Sam Harris having
a meditation app and also supporting genocide
is the most hilarious thing ever. Like, what
human being does both of those? Such a great
take on that. He's so funny, man. Yeah, we're
lucky, dude. We're part of a really cool group
of people right now. It's a very unusual time
that the mainstream has lost all of its power
of influence on people. It still puts out information.
It still puts out shows. They're trying to look
like you. But they're funk. That Jake Tapper
thing was so crazy. I was like, what are you
doing? Are you doing a podcast now? Like, what
are you doing? It's such a perfect, like, little
microcosm, though, of, like, it's almost painful.
Like, I'm like, guys, just can you hire me? I
mean, like, I would explain this to you. No,
it wouldn't work either because they're so trained.
It's like. If you get a dog and that dog has
been – maybe a cat might be a better example.
If you've never had a litter box in the house
and the cat's been pissing all over the carpet,
you are always going to have that cat piss on
the carpet. That's what that cat does. You're
not going to fix him. If your entire life you've
been spitting out nonsense from a teleprompter
and now all of a sudden you have to be yourself,
you've been functioning in a world of executives
and producers where everybody goes over every
little thing you say and do. 100 % read things
you know aren't true. Or at least partially aren't
true. They added mics for like everything. Oh
yeah, yeah, yeah. Their whole setup is they're
all trying to look like podcasters. No! Wait
a minute. They put mics out like podcasters.
That's crazy. Imagine if they think that's all
it takes. But Joe, talk about completely missing
the point. Right? It's just fundamentally missing
it. Is that they go, they actually go, okay,
so all of these people have left. you know, watching
cable news in droves. And now they, a lot of
people listen to podcasts. They'll listen to
you or Theo Vaughn or whoever it might be. And
a huge reason, right, why people, a huge reason
why you've been number one for so long now is
because however anyone feels about you, you're
authentic. And it's very hard to deny that. You
know, one of the biggest questions I get when
people like meet me, if I do like meet and greet
after shows or something, it's what's Joe Rogan
like? It's a question I get all the time because
we're buddies and I've been on the show a lot
of times and people love you. And they'll go,
what's Joe Rogan like? And I always tell them
the same thing. I go, you already know. You already
know who he is. He's that guy. And then offstage,
he's that guy. You know what I mean? That's who
he is. And people like that. People like that.
Whatever you think about Theo Vaughn, he's authentic.
He's being himself. That's who he is. Well, that's
how it works. And because you guys in the corporate
media. are all professional liars and have lied
to the American people about the last 17 crises.
You know, they don't trust you anymore. And so
then their reaction to that is you go, well,
what if we pretended to be podcasters? You're
like, no, you dummy. That's the whole thing.
This is just proving further how inauthentic
you are. Do they have fucking meetings on this?
100%. 100 % they do. Dude, they all, this was
to me. Despite the fact that I, you know, and
people give me shit about voting for Donald Trump
and they could say I should have known better
and whatever. I was a huge critic of him in his
first term and I'm a huge critic of him in his
second term. But the best thing about Donald
Trump winning in 24, and I did predict this right.
I'm not always the best with predictions. I'm
pretty good on issues, I think, but I'm not great
at predictions. They're tough. But the best thing
about Donald Trump winning was that the corporate
media finally admitted it. They had been pretending
for so long. I remember we used to joke about,
I remember coming on like a few years ago, and
we would joke about how Brian Stelter would always,
whenever he talked about you, he would always
kind of go like, the fringe Joe Rogan. Like as
if he's the mainstream and you're the fringe.
As if the numbers aren't readily available to
all of us. That we could be like, your show has
like 200 ,000 listening and his has 20 million.
So how is he the fringe and you're the mainstream?
I think they thought that. Maybe they believed
it. 24, the election, that's when they all admitted
it. And then the talking point moved to. We need
to find our own Joe Rogan. The Democrats need
to find a Joe Rogan or whatever. Remember, that
was like – so they kind of admitted that, oh,
the podcasts have become the new mainstream and
we are the fringe. Right, but the dumb part of
that statement was you already had me, you fucking
idiots. You just lost your mind. I'm not right
and I'm not left. I think both of them suck.
And I think the adherence to the ideologies that
the left supports or the right supports is out
of their – you've got to be out of your fucking
mind. Whether it's these – Crackpot Christian
nationalists that think that this whole war is
a way to get Jesus to return on a white horse
Yeah, do you see those guys that were talking?
Yeah during the the readiness fucking meeting
that I think that's nuts, too. I think the woke
shit and all the chaos of the fucking last four
years of having a completely open border and
the justifications of all these things. That's
nuts, too. I'm not on either buddy's side, anyone's
side. But I think the Democrats aren't ever going
to get someone like me because I'm not with either
or I'm not with either or. I'm with whoever fucking
makes sense and no one makes sense until AI comes
along. I think they're going to do a really good
job. President perplexity is going to run this
country fairly and balanced. I'm willing to try
it at this point. I'm fucking dead serious, man.
As long as it doesn't do something to harm people.
As long as like that's its goal. Its goal is
just to manage society. It's a big if that you
got there. But yes, if we can get that. Enjoying
the hive, Dave. But what you just said, I think
is really. Well, this is something that I'm encouraged
by. Is that I think what you just said there,
I really do believe that you speak for super
majorities of the American people. And that's
why even though Donald Trump has shattered his
coalition by lying us into this stupid war on
behalf of a foreign country. That coalition is
still ripe for someone else to pick it up and
run with it. And that's kind of what I'm hoping
I hope Thomas Massey runs for president I think
by the way They're doing a big money bomb for
Thomas Massey on March 30th And I think him winning
reelection in Congress is like the most important
political election in the country right now because
he's done nothing wrong except actually stand
up for America first and for all the stuff that
Donald Trump and Tulsi Gabbard and all these
people ran on and he's gotten The the Israel
lobby and the Adelson's, but I repeat myself,
have been pouring millions of dollars into his
race to try to unseat him for the crime of not
going along with the Epstein cover up and not
going along with another stupid war and having
some like fiscal sanity. So I hope I hope he
wins. I imagine those three negatives. Imagine
those being three negatives that people are saying
he's not MAGA. What is MAGA then? My position
is always like, if you're saying, if not supporting
covering up the Epstein files, or not supporting
a stupid war of choice, a war of aggression on
behalf of Israel means I'm not MAGA, then okay,
I'm not MAGA. I'm not attached to the phrase,
make America great again. I don't care. But if
that phrase sucks, here's the thing. First of
all, America... Is great. Make America greater.
I'm down. But make America great again. And then
it becomes a movement of a bunch of fucking dorks
because a lot of them are dorks. A lot of them,
these really weird, fucking uninteresting, unintelligent
people that have. got something they cling to
and there's a lot of people that are just real
genuine patriots and they're all lumped into
this one group and you gotta accept the dorks
too fuck that like the concept of making America
great is a great idea but as soon as you have
a fucking team and you allow anybody to join
up You don't even have tryouts for your team.
So you've got a bunch of fucking dipshits that
are running around spouting out opinions and
you have to go along with them because they're
MAGA. And then you've got bots online that are
probably from fucking Indonesia or Russia or
wherever. And they're pretending they're MAGA
and they're saying crazy shit. So that's a part
of MAGA too. You've fucked up by becoming a part
of a group. Whether it's a Republican group,
a Democrat group, a MAGA group, a fucking woke
group, whatever it is, you fucked up by being
in a group. Yeah, George Carlin said people are
great as individuals, but when they get in a
group, man, they're the worst things in the world.
And that's why it should be about the... Like
the issues. It should be about your principles
and what you believe in. And that's and you should
be like, look, like I've said many nice things
about Tulsi Gabbard over the years. And I was
extremely critical of her over since last summer
into now, because I think she's lying us into
a war, which is the war that she was always opposed
to. The one that what she sold no war with Iran
T -shirts. How is she lying us into this war?
Because that's a big statement. Yeah, absolutely.
And it's true. So last summer. So Tulsi Gabbard
had given her the as the director of national
intelligence does every year. They give their
annual threat assessment. Then she testified
before Congress about it. And she it was very
clear in her annual threat assessment that Iran
was not attempting to build nuclear weapons,
that they had not yet made the political decision
to attempt to build nuclear weapons, let alone
like are actually going for it. And she testified
before Congress saying the same thing. And then.
While they were negotiating, Israel sneak attacks
them. Then she had some post where she goes,
Iran could be weeks or months away from nuclear
weapons, which was total bullshit. It made absolutely
no sense at all. Let me see what the post has.
Sure. If you can find it, this is from last June.
Right, but is that a fact? So if they're enriching
uranium up to 60 % and they just have to enrich
it further for... The ability to use it in nuclear
weapons. That is a couple weeks away. No, but
not before it would be. To build a bomb and to
make it deliverable, I think all the experts
say at least a couple years. But the point, aside
from that, is that at the time, and this is over
now, but at the time, Iran was still members
of the JCPOA. They were still in it. What is
that? This is the Iran deal that Obama. got us
into. Obama is horrible on foreign policy. He's
the butcher of Libya and Syria and Yemen, and
he surged in Afghanistan. But in Iran, he made
a deal with them. But it wasn't just with the
U .S. and Iran. It also involved Russia. And
France and England and there were other countries
involved in it, too. And the JCPOA said that
Iran couldn't enrich above, I think it was three
to five percent or something like that. And they
were staying in it. And it created a new inspections
regime, which Iran. So they were having full
inspections. They weren't. But the deal also
said that if America gets out of the deal, they
can enrich up to higher. So when America got
out of the deal, they started enriching. When
did America get out of the deal? Donald Trump
tore it up in his first term. I want to say 2017
or 2018. And then they immediately started enriching?
No, they went up a little bit, and then I think
there were a couple Israeli attacks, and then
they went up to enriching at 60%. But so the
reason we knew they were enriching up to 60 %
is because... They were still members of the
JCPOA with an inspections regime who was going
in there and saying they're enriching up to 60%.
Right. How much do you actually know about enriching
uranium and what it takes to turn into a bomb?
Let's read what she says. New intelligence. Confirm
what POTUS has stated numerous times. Iran's
nuclear facilities have been destroyed. Oh, no,
I think this is after. This isn't the right one.
Her tweet was before. This is from June. Yeah,
this would have been just shortly before this.
Very recently. Her tweet was before we hit Fordow.
Yeah, this is June 25th. There's a recent one,
though. Oh, edited June 25th. Yeah, but it seems
like it was still edited the day it was posted.
Probably. Can you go to her page? Because she
doesn't tweet a lot. She's not a psycho. She's
not one of those. If she tweets, it's generally
something important or someone from our team.
So is this the – hold on. Above that. Overwhelmingly
elected by the – Click on that show more. I think
that's it. Well, this is what she testified to
Congress this time. I was referring to a different
one from that. But I also think this is a lie.
I mean, for her to say. That the president determines
what is an imminent threat or is not. No, either
there is an imminent threat or there is not one.
This is like saying the president determines
the weather or something like that. But you're
taking her words out of context. She's saying
something that's factually correct. As our commander
in chief, he is responsible. for determining
what is and is not an imminent threat. That is
true. And whether or not to take action, he deems
necessary to protect the safety and security
of our troops, the American people, and our country.
That's just an actual fact. Okay, yes, fair enough.
But when she testified before Congress, they
asked her, like, They asked her point blank a
bunch of times about this. And then she goes,
that's not my job to determine what's an imminent
threat. That's the job of the president. And
if he says it is, then it is. OK, so look at
this here. Initially, she's contradicting Trump,
saying that Iran did not rebuild after the 2025
strikes, contradicting Trump. So this is also
from Time magazine. So she's saying that. Now,
what you're saying that she said earlier was
a lie is not a lie, dude, because that is actually
his. Well, I wasn't referring to that. I understand.
But you did say that was a lie, which she said
was a lie. OK, fair enough. That was not a lie.
But it was. But it is. But it's actually actually
correct. And if you're in a position like she's
in, we've got that guy breathing down your neck
and you're forced to make a statement. You've
got to tread very carefully on this tight rope
that you're walking. OK, fine. But let's just
say. hypothetically, then you know for a fact
that Iran did not pose an imminent threat. And
then that's your answer when you're asked if
they did. Fine. It's not a lie. But it is very
misleading, to say the least. How much... Okay,
hold on. Intel Chief Gabbard declines to say
if Iran posed an imminent threat to the U .S.
She declined to say... On her own, personally.
This is the congressional testimony. Yes, yes,
yes. I think this is what I was referring to
here. And she does at one point say that it's
not her job to make that determination, which
I do think is her entire job. It's interesting.
Look, maybe I'm being a little harsh by saying
lying in that example. And fair enough to your
point there. Like that technically is a true
statement. I do think it's very misleading. And
I do think that she really was the one who advocated
against this specific war for the reasons that
we're seeing unfold right now. And I do think
I get your point. It's a very tough tightrope
to walk. The options are essentially, I think.
to do what Joe Kent did and resign or to stay
on and support the thing. I mean, I think it's
kind of hard to thread that needle. Right. Do
you think that there is any value in being one
of the few reasonable voices that has his ear?
Yeah. If ultimately it is his responsibility
to determine what's an imminent threat and what
is not, I would imagine that she gets access
to... most of the same classified information
that he does as the director of national intelligence.
I don't know, though. I don't know how it works.
But what can she do other than try to be a voice
of reason if ultimately this guy is going to
do what he wants to do, right? And he's going
to do also what Israel wants to do, clearly.
And he's talked about it. And also in his first
term, I'll never forget this fucking conversation
that he had with Steve Hilton. Because I think
it was one of the first times since Eisenhower
I've seen a president say, and Steve Hilton,
by the way, I've been friends with him for 12
or 13 years. Met him and his family in Maui on
the beach when my daughter's really young and
his kids are really young. They became friends.
We've hung out together, vacationed together.
He's a sweetheart of a guy. I love that guy.
And when he was interviewing Trump, Trump said,
That there is a military industrial complex and
these guys want to go to war. Yep, and we were
like what? This is crazy. You're just saying
that like you're just saying that it's one of
the many reasons Why a lot of people liked him?
Oh, yeah He would do things like that where he
would completely break protocol and just say
let me know Let me let me let you know rather.
Let me inform you. There's a bunch of people
that want to go to war And they're pushing me
all the time to go to war. That's what they want.
It was so crazy, dude, because also even Eisenhower,
when he coined the term, it was in his farewell
address to the nation. He was literally like,
this is my last stop and then I'm leaving. Trump
was just in the middle of his presidency and
he goes, all of them want war. They all want
me to be in war all the time. If it was up to
them, we'd always be at war. And I do, you know,
now, look, that was great. I thought actually
the one to me that was even crazier was if you
remember when Bill O 'Reilly. was interviewing
him, and he's talking about Vladimir Putin. And
he goes, he's like, oh, well, you won't, you
know, at the time, Donald Trump, which he had
run on, he was saying we should have detente
with Russia. He goes, like, why do we, you know,
we have all the nuclear weapons. He's like, Putin's
killed people. Yeah, he goes, Putin's a killer.
You want to have a detente with a killer? And
he goes, we got a lot of killers, too. And then
he goes, whoa, whoa, whoa, what do you mean we
got a lot of killers, too? And he goes, what
was Iraq? What was that? We got a lot of killers
on our side, too. And then Bill O 'Reilly said,
well, I mean, Iraq was a mistake. But he goes,
yeah, we got a lot of killers, too. And I love
that, by the way. I mean, that was a that's breaking
protocol. Yes. Yes. Well, I think this is kind
of I think one of the main reasons why the establishment
revolted against Trump the way they did. There's
something very scary to the powers that be about
a guy who, like, by his very nature. Like, I
don't even think he's capable of not letting
things slip. Right. You know what I mean? Like,
he's just that's who he is. And that was a big
thing that people really didn't like about him.
Very interesting to me is that so many of the
never Trumpers have come to define his presidency.
Like, if you if you remember back in 2016, the
the. war hawk kind of Israel first or Republican
crowd, the neocons and all them. They hated Donald
Trump, hated him with a passion. Ben Shapiro
was a never Trumper. He said because of his deeply
held principles, he could never support Donald
Trump. Mark Levin was a never Trumper, all of
National Review, all of them. And now they are
the biggest Trump supporters ever as kind of
he's blown up the coalition that got him elected.
So it's kind of interesting that they all, you
know, you know, but again, tell those guys to
all stay off Twitter. There's not one thing that
they ever say that makes them look better. They
get in these silly fucking, they just feel like
they're going to make some stupid fucking statement
and then refute a couple of people and don't
understand the crowd reaction when you've got
thousands of people tweeting against you now.
Thousands just attacking you, destroying you,
posting memes, posting videos. You said this
and you said that. You piece of shit. It's amazing.
It's crazy. I got to say, I do love that dynamic
of it. I love it too. That's why I stay off of
it. Yeah. Look, there's problems with it, but
there is something about that dynamic now that
was just never true in the past where it's like,
look, I'm not saying it's perfect. And obviously
there's bots and there's things like that. So
it's not like a, but. The people kind of get
a voice in a way that they never had before.
Right. And there is something kind of cool about
that. A hundred percent. I love it. But it's
not all the people either. It's a lot of fake
people. There's a lot of like state sponsored
actors. No, that's true. That's true. There's
manipulation. But there was always manipulation
in the old order also. Do you see this YouTube
bot farm that they just busted? No. They busted
this fucking warehouse had cell phones all rigged
up for YouTube views. Where people would just,
they would just hire a company and say, hey,
you know, part of the problem is not getting
enough views. I'd really like to blow the fuck
up and get to number one. And you hire them and
they can get views. Interesting. Yeah. Well,
that's also, I mean, I guess if you've got advertisements,
that's legit. 100%. That's like actual fraud.
100%. And kind of a weird loophole where I don't
think it's illegal. Yeah, that's got to be interesting.
It's got to be some type of fraud, though, if
you're intentionally doing that. Maybe if you
didn't know. Right. But listen, Twitter pays
people. X pays people to post. So you pay based
on engagement, right? That's how you get paid.
So you farm out engagement. So like what percentage
of what we're interacting with is just horseshit?
Well, I got so what does it say here? I know
this story just happened. A guy got arrested
and had to plead guilty because he made, I think,
I think what happens, he made a fake ban. Yeah.
Yeah. He had an AR generated song. Oh, wow. It
played billions of times in an effort to mimic
the genuine streaming activity of real consumers.
Smith pled guilty today, conspiracy to commit
wire fraud. Wire fraud. Check this out, though.
I heard a similar story in Japan. First of all,
let me stop you right there. Michael Smith generated
thousands of fake songs using artificial intelligence.
Hey, hey, hey. Stop talking shit about AI music
because it's not fake. Those are real songs.
Don't say fake songs. They're real songs, and
some of them are fucking bangers. Unfortunately,
some of them are really good. You're going to
like what I was going to say, then. A guy was
doing this in Japan, and it got... And so he
hired people to be the band. And now the band
is a real band. Kind of popular. So AI is creating
jobs in this case. Shifty Brent rules, though.
You can never create him in real life. He's the
guy who does the 50 cent ones. Oh, yeah. I've
seen quite a few of those. First of all, that
guy was really, he'd have lungs like a fucking
ultramarathon runner because the flow. Like,
how can you even have air to say what you're
saying? Like, someone was saying that to me.
She was like, I think you couldn't do this. And
my argument was Eminem. I was like, yeah, you
could. You just have to be wicked at it, like
Eminem. Like, Eminem in his prime, that motherfucker
could spit in a way where you're like, I can't
believe he's still talking. Yeah, it was, I remember
there were a couple of his things where I was
like, I don't, can he actually do this? And then
I saw him do it live. Not like I was there, but
saw it on YouTube where you're like, oh, he can
actually rap like this. I saw him recently. I
saw him recently. It was fucking great. He's
still great. He's thin. He looks good. Yeah,
he was killing it, man. He was killing it. But
the speed in which that he can rap made me go,
maybe AI is not bullshitting. But 50 Cent himself
was much more casual in his delivery. Yes. And
it was much slower. This shifty Brent AI version
is like, damn, that was a real person. That'd
be pretty great. He would be the greatest artist
on earth. There was a guy, I can't remember his
name, but just like the other day, some guy,
he works for Fox News. And he came out and had
a whole post about me. And he goes, Dave Smith's
account is clearly botted by foreign. And when
he said that, I was almost kind of like, there's
a weird thing. I know I've never paid for anything,
but like. I don't know what I mean, like what
someone else might have done or something like
that. But I asked him, so I replied to him and
I go, wait, what evidence do you have of this?
And then his post was that he said, because I
had 900 ,000 followers on Twitter, but I'm playing
Laugh Boston this weekend. And he goes, that's
a 300 seat venue. I played that many times, too.
First of all, he doesn't understand comedy clubs.
You just don't get comedy clubs, dude. First
of all, I'm doing five shows there. By the way,
come on out this weekend. Great club. Great club.
One of my favorite weekends of last year. It's
a fucking great room. But I was like, look, man,
I sold out all the shows last year. Hoping to
do the same this year. But I go, that is any...
Like, I just know the industry of stand -up comedy
pretty well. And I was like, anybody who you're
saying would be selling more than this, so what,
selling out big theaters or selling out a stadium
or something like that, all the people who do
that have more followers than me. So, like, he's
not even right about the ratio of it or whatever.
He doesn't understand numbers. But then I kind
of, like, I grilled him on it a bit more because,
listen, I'm kind of like you. Like, when you
were talking about suing CNN back in the day
for slandering you, like, I'm never actually
going to do it. But I don't mind. Saying it.
You know what I mean? So I tagged Fox News and
I go, hey, Fox News, shouldn't you have some
evidence if you're going to make a claim? Like
I'm clearly. Botted by foreign influence or whatever.
Fox News actually said it? The guy works for
Fox News. Was he on Fox News when he said it?
No, he said it on Twitter. But he's like a Fox
News contributor or something like that. Right,
but I'm a UFC contributor. It wouldn't be like
the UFC. Yeah, I guess that's true. So I don't
know. Maybe it would just be him in either way.
I'm not suing anyone. But I did want him to just,
I go, just admit you don't have any evidence
for this. Like, just retract that. Well, here's
the thing. I would agree that your account is
botted because you're a very controversial public
figure. I'm sure my account is botted, too. I'm
sure Jamie's account is botted. 100%, right?
I'll show you the evidence. I think Jamie might
be a bot himself. We're all botted, man. If you
look at, you know, we've brought this up a million
times, but there was an FBI, former FBI analyst
who analyzed Twitter before the purchase, and
it was his take that as much as 80 % might be
artificial. Now, this is back then. This is before
Elon purchased it. I think they've taken some
steps to try to ensure. One of the things is
you could go to the person's page. You could
see what country they're posting from. Yes, I
like that a lot. Yeah, because there's a lot
of people that are pro -America. And you're like,
hey, man, you're in Pakistan. What's going on
here? This is kind of kooky. So there's a lot
of that going on. I've had before where people
go like, Dave, you always say Israel's trying
to lie us into war. But this is America. We decide
what war we're going to have. a fight and then
you click it, Israel. It's just a dude in Israel
saying that. But at least we're getting steps
to know those. Listen, if it wasn't for Elon
Musk, we would be fucked. I've said this before.
I'll say it again. History will go back and look
at his purchasing Twitter and it has changed
the course of communication in this country for
the better. No question. I know a lot of you
thought, oh my God, the racism is up and all
this stuff is up. That's people. That's the internet.
That is an accurate representation of people.
It's not good, but it's also accurate. And the
only way that's going to change is if the other
voices are more compelling. And at least now
they have an opportunity to do that. Yeah, well,
and you have to kind of engage in this. And I'm
not saying you have to be on Twitter or something
like that. But I'm just saying, like, if you
want to, you know, I would love very much. to
get to a place where like, you'd be like, hey,
let's all agree that we're not on board with
the bigotry stuff. And I mean this like, whether
it's against white men or whether it's against
black men or whether it's against Jews or whether
it's against Muslims or whatever. And I see a
whole lot of all of that. And I'd love to move
past that. I also would, like, I wish there was
a way that like, Mark Levin and Tucker Carlson
could have like a cool conversation. You know
what I mean? Oh, God. Not like be like, well,
look, it's not. I wish Santa Claus and Jesus
would come meet me for dinner. Well, both would
be nice. The latter is more likely, I think,
too, at this point. You know, I had a weird thing.
I don't know if you saw this, but Ben Shapiro,
he made this video about like, about Piers Morgan
and like going at him over having me. on the
show, and this whole thing, and so he says to
me, or he insults me a few times or whatever,
and then he goes, now I can hear Dave Smith right
now, and his response to this is, debate me,
bro, which, fair enough, that kind of is always
my, I only have one tool in my toolkit, like,
let's podcast about this, I don't know, this
is what I do, I talk. He's not willing to do
that? He goes, no, because you're like so, He
said because I won't – I don't debate such intellectually
dishonest people or something like that, which
I thought was a weird criticism of me. Like you
could say I'm wrong, but I do believe the shit
I say. Yeah, I don't think you're – I don't think
in any demonstration of any – I don't think there's
a single moment that I could point to that I
think that you've been intellectually dishonest.
I think that is like factually incorrect. Well,
thank you. That is gaslighting. You are very
honest. You're a very honest person. Well, thank
you. I try to be. No, you are. It's one of the
things I love about you. You're honest about
your fuck -ups. You're honest about what you're
incorrect about and what bothered you. Plenty.
About things that you've said. You're very honest.
So that's a silly thing to say. That's total
gaslighting. Well, I look at it like this. And
I don't, you know. Honestly, like, obviously,
if Ben Shapiro wanted to debate, I would do it.
But he debated everybody before all this shit
went down. Well, that's the thing. You go, dude,
you can't say I'm beyond the pale when you're
known for debating 19 -year -olds who are confused
about their gender. You know what I'm saying?
Everybody. No, I don't know if you remember this.
And this, to me, I actually think is very interesting.
But I don't know if you remember this. But on
this show, Ben was on years ago. You know, years
before October 7th or anything like that. But
he was talking about Israel and his defense for
Israel. And you went, you go, that's interesting.
Would you ever debate someone, you know, who's
a critic of Israel? And just generically, not
about a specific person. And he goes, absolutely.
I'd be happy to do that. And, you know, the thing
about guys like that is that particularly with
Ben Shapiro, for the last two and a half years.
His number one issue, Israel, has been the number
one topic of conversation. And in that time,
Israel's support has been bleeding. I mean, just
like to a level you couldn't have imagined. You
couldn't have imagined two and a half years ago
to go, this will be a pro -Palestinian country.
That was unthinkable. And it's become that. And
forget me. There's way better people than me.
Ben Shapiro debated no one. He never once had
a conversation with a competent critic of Israel.
And that, listen, people saw that. People noticed
that. And so I kind of in a weird way feel like,
it's like, hey, dude, I don't care if you do
the debate with me or not. I wish, I don't think
we ever can. I wish there would be a world where
we could have a good faith conversation, like
a guy with me and Ben Shapiro. But he refused
to do it with anyone. Anyway, so while you're
smearing everybody who's a critic of Israel,
you're not willing to like you. Listen, there
are some people who don't debate, but he branded
himself as the debate guy. Right. If you don't
like Dave, sit down with Scott Horton. Sure.
Absolutely. Scott Horton's way smarter than me
and knows way more shit than me anyway. So talk
to him about it, dude. I mean, he's a better
guy. If you're saying that this is the reason
why you won't do it, that sounds crazy because
Wouldn't you want to debate someone who's intellectually
dishonest? Because it would be so easy to refute
them with facts. It would be perfect. It's like
sparring a guy who knows fake kung fu. You know,
he thinks he's got a death touch, and you're
Dustin Poirier. You're like, oh, yeah, bro, lace
the gloves up. Let's go. Well, that was kind
of my thing with the Douglas Murray thing, too,
where it was like, at a certain point, you're
like, dude, you can't just say you're an expert
and I'm not an expert. Demonstrate that. If that's
the case, then it should be easy for you to just
chop me up in front of the world right now. There
was also some things that you had to correct
him on. Yeah, yeah. The history of Israel. Yeah,
like, you just got it wrong. And you could see,
like, the tremor in his eyes, like, oh, shit.
Like, they don't want to give up that ground
because they're playing. very different game.
And the game is not let's be intellectually honest
about what we think is going on and what we think
is good and bad about what's going on versus
I'm trying to win. And one of the ways I try
to win is by I can appeal to authority. You're
not an expert. You're not a this. You're not
a professor. You've never been there. That kind
of shit. That is all like hack ass fake kung
fu moves. You're going to try on Francis Ngannou.
You know what I mean? Yeah. Good luck with that.
Not that I'm comparing you to Francis Ngannou.
That's very disrespectful to Francis. Certainly
not when it comes to fighting. You'd much rather
fight me. This is Ronda Rousey card. They got
Francis fighting Phillip Lins, who's a light
heavyweight. In the UFC, and the UFC cut him,
and he's fighting the scariest heavyweight who's
ever walked the face of the earth. I mean, props
to him. Next to primetime Alistair Overeem. Primetime
Alistair Overeem when he was Ubering, I think
is even scarier. I think because he was way skillful.
He was terrifying when he was on the sauce. Yes,
but even... Francis is natural, so he's scarier.
Francis almost has a thing where it just seems
like you have to fight a perfect fight against
him. Which Stipe Miocic did. The first fight.
The first fight with him. He took a lot of shots.
That's the thing about Stipe. Like, Stipe could
take a shot. And you would see he would, like,
jab him, and he'd be rocked, but he'd still get
the takedown, and he exhausted him. He beat him
with skill, strategy, experience, everything.
But in the second one, DC said it best. He goes,
a patient Francis is a fucking terrifying thing.
Dude, my favorite commentary ever in a fight.
was when DC said it was just so hilarious to
me. It was so real. Like, he just meant it. But
it was when Francis Ngannou fought Gon, and he
grappled a little bit. in that fight, which we
had never seen him do before. But there was one
point where he was on the ground and he took
his back or something like that. He passed his
guard or he took his back or something like that.
And DC just goes, oh my God, he's doing jujitsu
now. It was like he was speaking of a robot who
just learned how to feel feelings. He goes, oh
my God, it's learning. It's advancing. This is
so terrifying. A guy that's that much of a destroyer
that learns how to take backs and strangle people
too and control you from the back and blast you
unconscious. like he did with that dude in the
PFL in his last fight. Took his back and just
blasted him into the netherworld. Yeah, that's
scary. He's the scariest guy that's ever fought
in the UFC. Props to that dude for taking the
fight. Scariest natural clean guy, I should say
that. Okay, yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. Because
we only got a couple Alistair Overeem fights
where he was Overeem, and the big one being Brock
Lesnar. That was the big one. And, of course,
the other fight on that card that they added,
which is huge, is the Nate Diaz. Well, here was
my point. If Nate Diaz is fighting, I'm paying
whatever you're charging. I'm going to be wherever
it is. And it's Mike Perry. Great fight. Bad
motherfucker. That's a great fight. But my point
is they also have Rob Bellis to Spain, who's
on that card. Who's a 6 '7 Cuban Taekwondo expert.
Who's a heavyweight. He's a knockout artist.
Like, why did they have him? He's fighting Junior
Dos Santos. And Junior Dos Santos is, you know,
he was an all -time great, but he had a long
career. And he's had some bad knockouts. And
some wars, too. Bad wars. The wars with Cain
Velasquez took years off his life. The war with
Stipe. It was almost criminal that they didn't
stop. both of those fights. Well, they were definitely
horrible and terrible to watch. But the point
is, Robles is huge. He's a real heavyweight.
He's a big, giant knockout artist. Like, that
would have been an interesting fight versus Francis.
Big, super tall guy that's hard to hit. Yeah.
And if it just is a striking fight, the problem
with Robles, he got exposed in his last UFC fight
on the ground. He got beat up. His ground game's
not that good. Could have gotten better. But
on the feet, that's a little bit more interesting
to me than Phillip. Although Phillip's a skillful
fighter. You know, he's used to fighting at light
heavyweight. The UFC cuts him, and now all of
a sudden he's fighting against Francis. Yeah,
that's a little bit of a mismatch. But, hey,
I mean, you know, we've seen crazy shit happen
in MMA before. I said Phillip. Felipe. I think
it's pronounced Felipe. Felipe Lins. But he's
a good fighter. I mean, it's not a bad fight.
in that sense but it's like you're going up against
a guy with a chip on his shoulder that they're
paying 20 million dollars he's the lineal i don't
know what they're paying him i'm just guessing
but he's the lineal heavyweight champion of the
world the real one like if you really like plot
it out no one beat him for the title that's a
that's a crazy fight it's like that's how shallow
the heavyweight division out is outside of the
ufc there's so few fights for you to get francis
for There's so few fights in the UFC. I mean,
the UFC's heavyweight division is a real mess.
It's very hard to find gigantic men who are excellent
fighters, I guess. There's a lot in Russia. Okay?
There's guys that are fighting in other countries
that are really good, that are coming up. It's
just like, it's hard to get them over here. There's
Josh Hokett. He's a bad motherfucker. That wrestler
dude who's crazy, who has these crazy speeches
after the fight, puts on an American flag bandana.
And he said, Brittany Griner has a dick. Brittany
Griner's a man. I forget what he said. But he's
just nuts. But he's also really smart about marketing.
Who's the other guy? You talked about him several
times. He's the Olympic wrestler. Oh, Gabe. Yeah,
Gabe Stevenson. Yeah, he's not in yet, though.
I had him on the podcast. He's not in the UFC
yet. When he's in the UFC, he's going to be a
fucking problem. Olympic gold medalist, elite
wrestler, moves like a cat, 250 pounds, young,
super dedicated, and just recently learned striking
and is fucking people up with his hands. Yeah.
And is picking it up quite quickly. And is a
John Jones protege. So he's been being mentored
by the GOAT. And absorbing his mindset. And that
guy's helping him. He's investing his time into
training him. If you're a young guy, you know
what a fucking boost of confidence, the greatest
of all time, says you're going to be the man?
You're going to be the fucking man. You just
stick with this plan. And they're bringing him
up the right way. He fought in dirty boxing.
He fought some small MMA organizations. It's
just like building up experience. Yeah, and there's
never been a lot of... But there's not really
right now in heavyweight landscape. There isn't
really like a Frank Mir or what's his name? Minotaur.
Noguera. Noguera. Where there used to be these
guys who were like. kind of known for fighting
off their back. You know what I mean? Like most
heavyweights don't really like fighting off their
back. These, even the guys who are really good
at jujitsu. I also think just in general, fighting
off your back is a lot harder than it used to
be. Fabrizio Verdum was the greatest. Yes. Yes.
That's a great example. He was incredible. Um,
but there aren't really that many guys like that.
A lot of these guys, you take them down. They're
in trouble. They're in trouble. Yeah. And when
you got a guy like Gable, guess what, bitch?
You're going to get taken down. And there's not
a fucking thing you can do about it. That is
a next level wrestler. I just saw one of his
recent fights where he's finishing a double leg.
Before he realized he knocked the guy out, it
seemed like. He KO's him with a left hook, and
he's so fast that as the guy's collapsing on
the way down, he shoots a double, connects, takes
him to the ground while he's unconscious. So
before the guy has a chance to drop, that's how
fast he is. He's already on him, taking him down,
and pounds him out while he's already unconscious.
Yeah, that was scary. That guy's a problem. He's
a problem. And that's an American heavyweight
motherfucker. We need one of those. We need some
American champions. We're down. Get him in the
White House. Yeah. I mean, are there any American
champions right now? Who are the American champions?
Mackenzie Dern is the strawweight champion, so
she's technically an American, although her dad
is a very famous Brazilian legend. Okay. Yeah.
Megaton Diaz is her dad, and she was a Brazilian
jiu -jitsu champion. But she is American, so
she's a champion. Other than that, who? Sean
Strickland's fighting for the title. Kayla Harrison.
That's right. So it's only women that are the
Americans. Yeah. Look at that. Boy, you're going
to see a lot of those dudes with those beards.
As they keep coming over here, you're going to
see. Oh, Joshua Vann is an American. That's right.
Yeah, it is. You got to see a lot of those dudes.
That's a caveat, though, the Joshua Van. No disrespect
for Joshua because I think he's an awesome fighter,
but he won that fight. We got to have a rematch
on that one. That was a freak injury. I mean,
he fell and dislocated his arm. It's a complete
freak injury. And Pantoja still hasn't fully
recovered from that, so it was pretty bad, whatever
the fuck. They said his shoulder dislocated and
his elbow. Yeah, I remember hearing that afterward.
It looked like it was just his elbow. But they
said, the doctor had said it was his shoulder.
And so what the thing about the elbow is, the
elbow is a less complicated joint, right? And
so when the elbow gets dislocated, if someone
just pulls on it, it can pop back into place.
So like saying that there's, as long as they
know what they're doing, right? because you don't
want to do it like Yuri Prohaska's team did and
rip his shoulder apart, and he needed surgery.
He probably needed surgery anyway if it was dislocating
like that. It was probably loose. But the point
is that his elbow might have popped back into
place by the time they brought him backstage,
and that's when they realized his shoulder was
fucked because his shoulder probably hurt more
even than his elbow. Right, right, right. That
was unfortunate because that was a real interesting
fight. Shoulders dislocate a lot, and sometimes
people dislocate their shoulders and don't even
realize they do. Oh, really? Apparently, according
to this orthopedic surgeon that I went to back
in the day before I realized that stem cells
could fix it, this guy was convincing me that
I had to have surgery. And one of the things
he said, do you know that your shoulder's been
dislocated? And I said, it has? He goes, you
didn't know? I go, no. He goes, how many times
have you hurt your shoulder? I go, how much time
you got? I can literally sit down and talk about
it every time I've been comorbid. How many times
have I been fucking arm blocked? How many times
have I been caught in a triangle? How many times,
you know, posting on the ground, I've jostled
my shoulder? The good news is there have been
no fracture or ligament injury. That's great.
Oh, that's Bahampa said that. So from that, we
have great expectations for his return, but the
exact time frame is still unknown. Still needs
a lot of physiotherapy. Start moving his arm.
Wow. Then he can go back to light training and
then hard training. Bro, we got to get that guy
down to fucking the CPI. And, you know, the cellular
performance institute that the UFC uses, get
that dude down to Tijuana. I'm worried about
the new model for the UFC. The Paramount model?
I'm worried about the Warren Aran and the new
UFC model. This is what keeps me up at night.
I get it. So what are you worried about with
the new UFC model? Look, I'm no genius, but it
seems to me like I'm a hardcore fan of the UFC,
right? So I was, you know, I order every pay
-per -view. Right. Every one. And so any Saturday,
if I'm on the road in my green room, we're watching
the UFC. If I'm not on the road, I'm either at
home watching it or I'm trying to go to the event
if it's in town. So then it's like, okay, ESPN
is over. We're not doing that anymore. So then
we're switching to Paramount. Now, I already
had Paramount because my kids like some shows
on Paramount. So now - Landman. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
I watch Landman. Great show. So I have Paramount+.
I'm like, oh, okay, well, that's easy enough.
And then I'm like, so wait a minute. Hold on.
So you tell me I just get everyone for free now?
I just don't have to order pay -per -views anymore?
And there's just something about that. Now, I'm
not saying whether this is Paramount's mistake
or the UFC's mistake or whatever, but just like
the basics of business to me go, so you just
had a loyal customer who's very happy. to pay
for every pay -per -view. And I'm just not now.
Now, I understand it's because Paramount gave
them a whole bunch of money, but on some level
I go, number one, I go, but how is this good
for business if the customer no longer has to
pay for a thing that I was happily paying for?
Let me correct you. Okay, sure. First of all,
Paramount, the idea of doing this and investing
$7 billion into the UFC over the next few years,
The positive that they're going to get from that
with loyal new customers is massive. So it's
introducing it to a whole new audience. If you're
a loyal pay -per -view buyer, if you spend, what
is it, $70 for a pay -per -view? I think something
like that. So $70 for this big -time pay -per
-view card. Now you get it for free. You just
have to pay for Paramount Plus every month for
the year. You're saving so much money. So the
amount of new people that are going to go, oh,
this is awesome. awesome. I don't have to pay
for pay -per -view anymore. I pay for Paramount
Plus and I get all these awesome shows too because
Paramount Plus has a ton of great fucking shows.
No question, it's a great deal for the consumer.
You get roped in through that and then you go
looking around on Paramount Plus and you stay
a loyal subscriber. They have all these years
with this new influx of viewers from the UFC
deal to build up more of a library, more shows.
It's huge for business. Okay, fair enough. They
can take their app from where it is now. and
take their streaming model from where it is now
and quadruple it over the next X amount of years.
So for them, they're bringing in the whole UFC
audience. And how many people would look at a
pay -per -view card and look, I would buy every
one of them. Even when I was working for the
UFC, I would go on ESPN Plus and I would buy
them, even though I was there. I was like, I
want to be able to watch it in the gym when I
get home. I'm going to buy it. And so you've
got... All these people that were looking at
those cards that were like, this one, I don't
know. I don't know if that's worth $70. If you're
on a budget and you're looking at this one, you're
like, who's fighting? Nah, I'm going to pass
on this one. I'll watch it a couple weeks on
ESPN+. Because you could just wait a few weeks.
I don't know how long the time frame is. But
you could wait a few weeks and you could watch
it. You don't have to do that anymore. It's $10
a month. What is Paramount Plus a month? How
much does it cost? Maybe 12 or 13, but I'm not
sure. Let's find out so we're accurate. But you're
saving so much money. But also on ESPN, they
charge you something like that too. Like you
had to pay an ESPN fee and then you had to pay
for each individual pay -per -view. So no, listen,
I'm saving a lot of money on this. Okay, $13
.99 a month or $139 a year. for the ad -free
premium plan, which includes Showtime. New and
former subscribers can currently get any monthly
plan for $2 .99 a month for the first two months.
It's not bad. So for a new subscriber, you could
try it out for two months for $2 .99 a month
and watch every UFC for $2 .99 a month for two
months. It's fucking worth it. No, that's no
question. And then you're going to get this huge
influx of people that... You know, if you're
on a budget, you're not going to subscribe to
Paramount+. You already got Netflix. Netflix
costs X amount of money. Maybe you got HBO Max.
That's X amount of money. I can't afford Paramount,
too. I don't want to pay another $10 a month
or $14 a month. Now, it's easy. No pay -per -views.
Yeah. They made a lot of wives of hardcore fans
happy. I'm sure for that. I don't have to buy
these pay -per -views anymore. Yeah, they get
the Paramount shows and they don't have to do
that. All right, fair enough. I guess it's just
in some ways, I guess, and I don't really have
much of a mind for business, but in some ways
there's just a thing where it's like we've always
done it this way. Now we're doing it a whole
new way. Yeah, but it's been on streaming for
the last few years. Yeah, that's true. So it's
always been on an app anyway. And then Paramount,
you could get it on Apple TV. You can get it
on Android TV. You can get it on all these different
things. It's like there's no reason to not have
it. It's easy. It's just great for as a business
move for Paramount. It was a smart fucking move
because you get this built -in hardcore fan base.
Now, have some of the cards been lackluster?
Yes. But guess what? That has always been the
case. Yeah, and that's just a matter of time.
Go back and watch Rose Namajunas versus Carla
Esparza. There's been some fights back in the
day that just weren't great. And there's been
cards that, even though they look good on paper,
in reality, they weren't so fun. Yeah, but I
also, I'm with you, because I remember you used
to say this back in the day all the time, but
I am like a purist fan in MMA in the sense that
like... All of that is like, I don't care. You
feel like, oh, it's boring. You're like, it's
the most exciting sport in the world on its worst
day. Even in a fight that's a bad fight. Because
if you remember the Frank Mir Crow Cop is a good
example of this, where it was just a boring fight
the entire fight. And then there's a spectacular
knockout at the end of it. And even if that doesn't
end up happening, you're always watching like,
that could happen at any moment. It always can
happen. I also am with you. I believe in like,
I don't believe in stand -ups. I don't think
anyone should ever be stood up. I don't think
you should be separated for stalemate or whatever.
It's like if someone puts you in that position,
then you've got to figure out how to get up.
If they're not doing enough on the top, that's
silly. Sean O'Malley explains why piracy led
to the UFC's massive Paramount deal. Oh, interesting.
There's a lot of people that will pay for it
every week, but there's a lot of people that
won't. That makes sense. They're streaming it
illegally. That makes sense. I knew there was
a lot of that because there were sites that you
could go to. And people would openly talk about
it. You can go to it and just watch the pay -per
-view. It's a good move, dude. It's a good move
for the business. It's just like they just need
a few banger cards to make people forget about
the stale ones. But that will happen. It's inevitable.
You're going to have stale cards. I'm concerned
about the White House fight. I'm concerned about
it not just from a security standpoint. I'm concerned
about it because it's outside. It's June, and
it's in Washington, D .C. If it's hot out. And
it could very well be. Like, what's the average
temperature? I looked this up the other day.
Average 67 % humidity in last year, or 2024 is
100 degrees on June 14th. Okay. Okay. That's
tough. Okay. And I think it's supposed to be
at noon also. Yeah, that's an issue. Okay, okay,
okay. That's a fucking big problem, dude. That's
a big problem. You are going to radically affect
their performance if you make people fight in
100 degree temperature with 67 % humidity outside.
You're also going to radically affect my ability
to do commentary, okay? My fucking head doesn't
have any hair. The top of my head is going to
be beet red. I'm going to have to put some toxic
sunscreen on it. You're going to see me with
that white zinc powder that the surfers use on
their nose. I'll make, like, fake hair with,
like, white zinc. My head's going to get cooked.
That is an issue. 80 % chance of thunderstorms
with highs in the mid -80s. Okay. Are they building
a tent? Is this outside -outside, or is it outside
in a tent? Are they going to have fans blowing
cold air on us? You know how much DC's going
to complain? That fucking dude, he's going to
be right next to me. His shirt's going to be
soaked. Yeah, that's a bit of an issue. You won't
be able to tell with mine because I always wear
black anyway. Everybody with a white shirt or
a blue shirt, if Anik has a light blue shirt
on, his pits are going to be fucking filled up
with sweat. It's going to be ridiculous. That
also really legitimately changes the actual fight
itself. Oh, 100%. Isn't that like the rendering
of it, I think? Okay. So I don't see any AC there,
bro. How are you going to get AC on those people?
What is that going to be like? That sounds...
Fucking insane. To do that in June just because
that's a fun time to do it? I mean, if I was
Justin Gaethje or I was Ilya Toporia, if I was
Justin Gaethje, I mean, first of all, he has
to take the fight. It's a historic fight. It's
at the White House. He's a true red -blooded
American. He wants to win the title at the White
House. Come on. You have to do it. But he's 37
years old. He's had a long career, and he's fighting.
maybe the most lethal guy he's ever faced. The
one guy out of all the guys he's faced that can
shut the fucking lights out with one shot every
time. His last three fights is the craziest resume
in the history of the sport. Knocks out Alexander
Volkanovsky, knocks out Max Holloway, knocks
out Charles Oliveira. Two at featherweight, one
at lightweight. All of them level. I wouldn't
even say... Well, I guess it's debatable, but
certainly you could make an argument the two
best featherweights of all time. Yes. And one
of the greatest lightweights of all time. And
by the way, I know MMA math is never perfect,
but you look at what Oliveira just did to Max
Holloway, who I love, one of my favorite fighters
of all time. Love Max. You look at what Charles
Oliveira just did to Max Holloway, and then you
think about the way Ilya Teporia handled him.
Flatlined him in the first round. And not what
was, to me, almost as impressive as the knockout
was handling him on the ground. Yeah. Passed
his guard. He tried to take him down. Think about
the way he got one of those body locks and tried
to take him down. Think about how helpless Max
Holloway was for that. How helpless a whole bunch
of guys we've seen are when he gets his hands
around you. And Ilya Teporia, he tried to do
that. He ends up on top and passes his guard
right away. Also, he ate a really clean elbow.
Early in that fight and just was like nothing
like I shook it off like it was nothing. He's
he's a special talent so but then again when
you are dealing with special talents and Great
great fighters like Justin who this is probably
his last opportunity to fight for the title I
want that under the perfect conditions. I want
that to be in an arena where it's 72 degrees
and air conditioned. I don't want it to be outside.
I don't want there to be any additional stress
or distractions because you're warming up at
the White House. Like, what do you have, tents
with mats on them? And these guys are going to
be slipping around in puddles of sweat. Shadowboxing
in the situation room before you come out. Who's
going to slip on sweat and blow their ACL out?
You know, I mean. If you've ever done striking
on mats when a bunch of dudes have been training
in a class, it's so fucking slippery, man. If
it's that hot, unless they have these mats where
they're getting set up in air -conditioned buildings
somewhere, unless they have a facility. Yeah,
maybe they can do that. I hope they think that
through. I hope they think that through. I hope
they prepare it. It's just... I like the idea
that it's like this big celebration of the UFC,
that the president loves the UFC so much he wants
to do it at the White House. But in practice,
I don't like it at all because you've got two
world titles. You've got the interim heavyweight
world title, and then you've got this world title
with Justin and Ilya at 55. I don't like it.
I want those to be at the T -Mobile. I want those
to be at the Madison Square Garden Arena. I want
those to be somewhere dope. The TD Garden in
Boston. Put it in a fucking real arena where
it's air conditioned, damn it. These are amazing
fights. I don't want anybody fighting when it's
100 degrees outside. That's crazy. correct me
if I'm wrong, but also I would think it's, you're
going to get sweaty so quick in weather like
that. And that is a big deal for like grappling
and stuff like that. I mean, that's a huge advantage
if you're trying to not get grappled by someone.
Here's another factor. These are people that
just were radically dehydrated 24 hours ago.
And then you're asking them to compete in a sauna.
You're basically asking them to fight in a sauna.
That is still so crazy to me that there's not
a way. that we can just get two guys who weigh
180 pounds to fight at 180 pounds. And instead,
we have to have two guys who weigh 180 pounds
cut down to 150 pounds and then rehydrate up
to 180 pounds to fight at 180 pounds. And weaken
themselves, like radically weaken themselves.
I see those guys, the day they weigh in, the
worst ever that I ever saw was Travis Luter.
Oh, yeah, against Anderson Silva? I remember.
He missed weight, but I was backstage for all
of it, right? So this was back when the weigh
-ins were the time of the actual weigh -ins.
It wasn't the ceremonial weigh -in. Like now
they give them more time. You can weigh in in
the morning, and then by the ceremonial weigh
-in, which is usually 5 p .m., usually these
guys have significantly rehydrated. They do it
slowly, but they have a process to it. But Travis
missed weight. And so I was backstage while they
gave him X amount of time to make the weight.
And, dude, he couldn't walk. He was shuffling,
shuffling. Like, he couldn't pick his legs up.
His lips were cracked. His face was dry. He looked
like he was going to die. He looked like a guy
who had been shipwrecked, you know, and, like,
lost at sea and just drinking his own piss for
a week. And they finally rescued him. That's
what it looked like. Right. He was dying, I guess.
Right. I mean, that is what you're looking at.
And then 24 hours later, he has to fight the
greatest middleweight of all time. He has to
fight Anderson motherfucking Silva in his prime.
And I did. for that being the story, did remarkably
well in the fight. He got viciously elbowed in
the triangle. That would not have happened if
Travis wasn't compromised. Travis was a real
problem back then. He was one of the best jiu
-jitsu guys to ever compete in MMA. And he was
stylistically kind of like the best shot against
Anderson Silva at that time. Because Anderson
Silva just looked untouchable. And he got him
down. He got him into good positions a few times.
Even though he was fucked from the weight cut.
But the thing was, never made the weight. So
even if he beat him, he wouldn't have got the
title. The whole thing was fucked. Yeah. But
it's like I've advocated for there's a solution.
One of them is multiple weight classes. that
are additional to what we have. Have one at least
every 10 pounds, and it probably should be more.
And a lot of people push back against that, but
listen, 10 pounds for an elite athlete is a big
fucking deal. 20 pounds is crazy. So when you
go like 85 to 205, that's crazy. That's too much
weight. It's too much of a gap. You could have...
Multiple champions in between those weight classes.
And it's just better for the sport overall. You've
got more champions. You've got more champion
versus champion matchups you can make. Well,
there's it also. First of all, it's very unhealthy
and dangerous. And that's the biggest issue.
But then it also makes it a thing where it's
like. Now there's two factors. It's not just
who's the best fighter. It's also who's the best
at dehydrating themselves, losing a ton of weight,
and rehydrating themselves. And also I think,
like I've heard GSP say before, that some people
are just naturally better at that. Some people
just fluctuate in weight more. Some people can
lose a lot of weight and then gain it all back
the other day. And he used to always say, I just
can't do that. Like I'm not a guy who can do
that. I think all of us, we just want to see
who the best fighter is. Exactly. We don't care
about who's the best at dehydrating. Anything
that hampers your ability should be removed from
the equation, especially if it's something like
this. But there's a solution. First of all, there's
a real silliness to the MMA weight classes. And
when I say silliness, our names that we use have
been owned by boxing for more than 100 years.
And the names that we use are for different weight
classes than boxing uses. That's... dumb yeah
that is dumb as shit like if you want to have
a 170 pound champion fantastic but don't call
it a welterweight because welterweight is 147
right it's been 147 for over 100 fucking years
the fact that you have a 147 champion and you
call that or 145 champion you call that a featherweight
Featherweight is 126. That's what it's been in
boxing forever. Lightweight has always been 135.
That's what Julio Cesar Chavez was the champ
of. 135. Lightweight is 155 in the UFC? Come
up with your own names. Why do we still have
these stupid names? I never thought about that.
It's a good point. They attached these names
to it when they first started developing weight
classes because it used to just be one weight
class. Another one on this. Why? And I think
you've mentioned this before. Why am I not getting
the leg reach? They do that sometimes. Do they?
Yeah, they do that. Because I've seen, like,
but on the regular tail of the tape, it'll still
just be reach. Yeah. But in this, because that
actually, for MMA, that's such a huge deal. Sure.
Like, it's such a huge, because, oh, like. Because
you're kicking. Yeah, if you're in kicking range
of me, but you know what I mean? But you can't
touch me. Your jab doesn't. matter as much as
in boxing, you know? And some guys, they have
really long legs for their torso. My friend Larry,
my friend Larry Jones from my Taekwondo days,
he had this short torso. What is this? Aldo's
leg reaches longer than Stipe's. Whoa, that's
crazy. Is that right? That's crazy. Stipe just
has a way longer torso? That's nuts. Oh, wow.
That's crazy. Well, Aldo was such a good kicker.
It's probably part of the reason why. My friend
Larry had this short torso, like really short,
but he was like 6 '3", and he was all legs, and
he was this insane kicker. He was like a freak,
like he was made in a lab. And when guys would
fight him, like you'd see guys in tournaments
fight him, they'd be like, what the fuck am I
going to do with this? Because his reach was
so nuts, and he was so fast with his kicks, and
you couldn't get anywhere close to him if you
were in his weight class and you were normally
built. Right. His torso was shorter than mine,
but his crazy long legs and long arms. Some people
are just built certain ways, and for striking,
it's a giant problem. There's another thing that
makes Ilya Teporya so fucking unbelievably impressive.
He's not tall at all. Yeah. And he's just flatlining
people. Oh, I mean, Charles Oliveira looked so
much bigger than him in that fight. And so much
bigger than Max, too. Oliveira's big. It's like,
look, the sport's fine. It's not in trouble.
Sports is not in trouble. The heavyweight division
is in trouble. The heavyweight division is kind
of fucked. It's in a weird situation. The Alex
Pereira thing is very interesting. Alex Pereira
versus Cyril Ghosn is very, very, very interesting
because Cyril Ghosn is a problem. That guy is
a problem. He's super athletic. He's really fast.
He's super skillful with his striking. His Muay
Thai is absolutely elite. And he does a lot of
things different than what a lot of people do.
And has anyone, because even Francis, like I
was saying before, grappled with him a lot in
that fight. Obviously, Jon Jones took him down
and choked him. But has anyone really stood toe
to toe and beat him up? No. No, no one's beat
him up toe -to -toe. Taito Iwasa went toe -to
-toe with him and tried to, but he got lit up.
Dude, Cyril gone is a problem. And even in the
little bit with Tom Aspinall, it looked like
he's tough. He's tough to fight like that, man.
Not just tough. He was, like, getting off on
Aspinall, and it didn't look good for Aspinall.
I mean, it's very unfortunate that he got his
eyes poked. I mean, we really never got to see
what happens if you drag Cyril deep water. The
way Tom had adjusted for the second round or
third round. Which we've never really seen out
of Tom either. It was very interesting that we
got robbed of that. Yeah, we got robbed of that.
And poor Tom, he's had two fucking eye surgeries.
And then he felt like the UFC disrespected him.
The whole thing's a mess. Well, I don't know
about the UFC, but a lot of fans did disrespect
him. I saw that. Which is crazy. It is. This
is really stupid. We talked about this last night.
It should be one point, period, if you poke someone
in the eyes. If you poke someone in the eyes,
one point. Well, especially if the fingers go
in the eyes. If it's like a glancing thing like
that, maybe get a warning. And a nut shot. Straight
nut shot, one point. The glancing thing may be
a warning. I think that could be up to the judge's
discretion upon view of the replay. Yeah, well,
the thing is that, and we were talking about
this last night, if you land a nut shot and it's
accidental, as it almost always is, you know
what I mean? You're trying to throw an inside
leg kick. Unless you're Derek Lewis. Well, okay.
Maybe not. I said almost. Almost always. But
so I just see this all the time in MMA. It's
the first one. It was an accident. This guy gets
kicked in the nuts. He needs a few minutes Usually
they don't take the full five or whatever they're
offered and then you just go back It's like look
even if it was an accident. That's such an advantage
to the guy who who kicked him in the groin. Yeah,
you hurt him. You hurt this guy and now he's
got to get back to it and there's no, so like
it does seem like there almost has to be some
accounting for that and there's, I think there's
still, it's still a very young sport. I think
there is still too much referee discretion. I
think you're right. There should be like an official
rule for what we do in this situation. Especially
those kind of fouls. It's like, it doesn't exist
in basketball, right? Yeah. If somebody fouls
somebody in basketball and everybody sees it.
That's a foul. Yes. Right? And the crowd will
go nuts. Usually. Usually. But it'd be like a
real one, like throwing someone to the ground.
I could show you examples. There are some fucking
wild things that don't get called for whatever
reason. Don't you think that's a little bit of
the corrupt referees? I'm not saying all of them,
but that is one thing that's been 100 % proven,
is that referees do get paid off in order to
influence gambling lines. Yeah, there was that
one referee who confirmed that it was the...
the Sacramento Kings versus the Lakers, which
was like a series that was like notoriously,
like everyone was like, yo, it was crazy. They
didn't call any of these fouls on the Lakers
and they called all these fouls. And then a ref
came out and was like, oh yeah, that's weird.
And it does kind of make sense because it was
the Shaq and Kobe Lakers. You got to get them
in the finals, dude. It was big money. God, it
was so gross. His defense weirdly was like, no
one told us what to do. but you kind of know
what they want, so you sort of do it, and then
you keep putting on good games and you keep getting
the good stuff. Hang them. Public hanging. Fuck
you. We can deal with Congress's insider trading,
but basketball must be a fair... Bad judges hanging.
Hang them. Hang them all in front of the kingdom.
All right, dude. Anything else before we wrap
this up? No, thank you for letting a non -expert
talk MMA with you so much. I love talking to
non -experts. Dude, thank you so much for everything,
as always, dude. My pleasure, brother. Thank
you. You're the fucking man. I love you, dude.
You're the fucking man, too. I love you, too.
We'll have fun tonight, right? Are you coming?
Are you leaving? I've got to go right to the
airport. Damn, last night was fun. That was a
lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. All right. Bye,
everybody.