Welcome to this curated educational transcript of the Joe Rogan Experience. In this session, we provide a deep-dive examination of the critical perspectives and historical dialogues presented in Episode #2464. Our mission is to offer a high-fidelity, searchable research resource for students of cultural history, emerging technology, and global discourse. This transcript has been specifically optimized for academic reference, linguistic study, and archival preservation regarding Global Media Trends, Creative Industry Evolution, and Performance Arts Research Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan
experience. Train by day. Joe Rogan podcast by
night. All day. I won't lie. I am nervous to
talk to you. Come on. How can you be nervous?
That's ridiculous. Like I came in slightly intimidated.
Why? I actually don't know the answer to that
because we've never met. Yeah. So it's not like.
You've intimidated me, but I just I'm really
I think what I really enjoy about your show is
just such an eclectic perspective on so many
diverse things. And it comes like so naturally
to you. I really admire that. Well, fortunately,
I don't have anybody pick my guests. So it's
all people that I'm actually interested in talking
to. So it's easy. Oh, that's nice. Well, thank
you for picking me. Oh, my pleasure. I'm excited
to talk to you. Your movie is fucking crazy.
It is. I knew it was a pirate movie, but I just
did not expect the ultra -violence from the beginning.
I was like, yo. I locked in immediately. I was
like, first scene, I was like, holy shit. This
is crazy. Well, thank you. That's a good thing,
right? When you're doing something that's that
hyper violent, like is that does that freak you
out at all? Like you're cutting people open with
swords and stabbing them in the neck. And it's
like, holy shit. When you're doing it, you know,
it's like make believe. So it's so much fun to
be like, yeah, I'm playing pirates and I'm going
to behead you. But I mean, in moments of like
scenes and stuff where I actually had to think
about what it must have been like to be. a female
at that time or because they existed women female
pirates existed and we just we didn't hear many
much about stories about them i mean i heard
about grace o'malley maybe um there were mary
reed like a few famous ones um ching shi after
i did my research but like in those moments you're
like this stuff must have like this was real
they lived at a time where it was survival of
the fittest it was barbaric um and I wonder what
that must have been like but besides that the
stunts and stuff like I really have so much admiration
for the amount of um precision it requires to
pull that stuff off from so many people not just
the stunt department but like the cameras because
they're also moving in sync with you yeah um
and that's cool It is cool. Is it hard to stay
in the moment when all that is happening? Because
you have so much coordination and there's so
much choreography. There's like, he's going to
swing this way and you're going to block it and
you're going to dive down. It's so complex. These
are long, extended fight scenes. like a lot of
oners too, like full, the whole scene in one
shot. Whoa. Which Frankie, our director, really
loved the idea of and I honestly love it because
it brings you into that, that moment is so enriched
with everything that you're supposed to feel
between action and cut. So I do love a long oner.
But, you know, I come from Bollywood movies so
we have a lot of choreography, a choreography
for like dance sequences where stories are also
moving forward, like between, you know, your
exchange of expression or something's happening
somewhere else, you come back. So I treat sort
of fight sequences like dancing. It's you learn
the choreography, but that doesn't stop your
face from telling the story. Right. That makes
sense. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, it is kind, I
mean, it's just choreography. Whether it's choreography
with dance or choreography with movements with
your hands and swords. I had never worked with
blades before this movie, though. That was cool.
How much training did you have to do? When you
found out that you were going to take the role,
how much preparation did you have to do physically
to get ready for all that stuff? It was a cool
year for me because I was filming three jobs
which were all... action and stunts so this movie
called heads of state which i did for amazon
again and then citadel and this movie so it was
a year of three action -packed jobs so the you
know being agile and being in it was already
part of what i was doing because that's what
i was filming every day but the swords training
was tough and to be ambidextrous with it as well
um so i had um my My stunt coordinator, who was
doing all three movies with me, she, in between
shots, she and I would just take our rubber swords
out and do, like, choreography and rehearsals.
But, like, it took at least three or four months
of just staying in it and getting loose with
it. Also because Carl Urban, my co -actor, had,
casual, learned how to do, like, sword fights
in The Lord of the Rings. So he was amazing at
it. So I didn't, you know, in that last duel,
I didn't want to... any less than. So I kind
of went at it. No, you look very good at it.
It was really good. Thank you. Did you work with
some sort of a kendo specialist or some fencing
specialist? How did you learn how to move the
sword correctly? It wasn't kendo, for sure. It
definitely wasn't fencing. It was uniquely, because
the swords were... Our director was very, very
excited about the weapons in this movie and wanting
to get it really right from the period, whether
it was the guns that we used or the blades that
we used. The machete was one of my favorite weapons
in the movie because that's like her weapon in
the movie because it's practical. Use it for
coconuts. Use it for skulls. Same, same. And
that was really fun. Second unit director Rob
Alonzo had so much experience in the amount of
work that he's done prior. He came in with a
very specific idea of wanting to make the fighting
style super unique. set piece like a different
design of choreography so you know there was
one which was in a dark cave so the only time
you saw people was when the gunshot went off
and just different styles of fighting um which
i thought was really cool so but did you have
like a professional trainer that taught you how
to do that yes and so How would you do it? Would
you do it with a real sword? Well, we had three
different kinds of swords. The real sword weighs
more than me. It was insane. I couldn't do it
with a real sword as much. But for filming, and
this is the magic of the movies, you have four
different weights of it. One is the real sword
where you need it for where it's a close -up
or the sword is really, really visible. But when
you're doing the big choreography, you have a
lighter sword, which is... created by the props
department, and then another lighter one. And
when you need to flip it, it's the lightest one.
I'm telling you all my secrets. That's good.
It's good to know. That sucks. Oh, no. No, listen.
Here I was trying to impress you with my sword
flipping. No, it's impressive, period. And talking
about my fencing, but no, it was movie magic.
One of the things that I always think when I
was watching it is like, how many takes did you
have to do with this? Because that's got to be
so hard to do. Because you're swinging this gigantic
iron thing. Yeah. And clashing into other ones.
I'm like, if you have to do three or four takes
of this, your arms are going to be toast. Oh,
we did. like 10 hours of it every day for like
seven days or something. Do you have shoulder
problems after that? No, actually I didn't, but
I was jacked. My arms never looked as good. Now,
I mean, I have a four year old and I lift her
a lot. So my arms are like, all right. But during
this movie, because we were just like at it and
we both, you know, threw ourselves at it, Carl
and I, and it took. It was a big choreography
on top of this bluff. We shot on 100 % of this
movie. At least 90 % is definitely on practical
sets, real sets. We did not want to use a lot
of VFX. So, you know, Phil Ivey, our production
designer, we built the ships. We built the house.
We built... Everything was a replica of what
it would have looked like in the 1900s in the
Cayman Islands. We went and saw it. It was amazing
to be able to do that with real stuff, you know?
Yeah. Well... The whole history of piracy is
so fascinating. And one of the things that the
movie is about is this – the Carl Urban character
is from – he was one of the soldiers of the East
India Trading Company. Then I went on a deep
dive on the East India Trading Company. You did.
That is crazy. When you learn the history of
that one corporation as one of the first publicly
traded corporations that essentially – was in
control of India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh, went
to war with China over opium, and that's how
they took over Hong Kong. You're like, holy shit.
One crazy fucking corporation involved in the
slave trade, the opium trade, just a corporation,
a publicly traded corporation. People could buy
stock in it, like one of the first ones. And
it just went haywire to the point where it got
so big. There was a revolt and then the British
government took over it, nationalized it. But
it's the whole story is insane. If you think
about how much in their minds they were able
to achieve and how much they were able to destroy
in that duration is crazy if you go down history.
Changed the course of countries forever. Human
lives forever. Forever. Like the amount of pillaging
that happened. Yes. Millions and millions of
lives. And this movie actually has a really interesting
slice of what they were capable of doing. They
utilized pirates in order to, you know, take
over new lands. Right. And in their conquests.
And then. When piracy was abolished, they went
after them and they wanted to arrest them. And
they vilified the same people that helped them
build their entire empire. So this was really
interesting because my character's story, her
parents and her family are indentured servants,
which was the truth of many, many people, especially
in India, where young people were... you know,
told better opportunities, new lands, more money,
come with us and take them off as servants and
then drop them in different parts of the world
and islands. And the Caribbean has a huge Indian
community whose history started with just being
displaced from their lands and dropped somewhere
else in the world and then having to figure out
what your future looks like. I mean, it still
happens to many. many people around the world
right now but um i thought it was really interesting
that my character came from that and her entire
identity was erased taken from her she had no
idea she was 12 so she had no idea what it meant
to have that identity and i met so many people
actually when i went to the game on um who don't
know anything about their family tree beyond
like five generations or they know where their
family may have come from from Sri Lanka or from
India or you know any other nation but have no
idea what like what it was where from what village
like what was your culture and that ambiguity
in in a history of a human being erases a part
of you it it It denies you of knowing the depth
of your culture or where you come from or your
roots. And I thought that was really, really
interesting for my character to play and then
reclaim herself through the journey of the movie.
Well, it's a fascinating part of human history.
Yeah. And it's taken place all over the world.
And for a lot of... Cultures, they don't have
an understanding of exactly what happened before
they were colonized. Like one of the great examples
is Mexico. I went in a long, deep dive on Mexico
recently over the last few months because I've
had a bunch of people who are historians who
came on the podcast who are just researching
these ancient Inca and Mayan sites and talking
to them about it. And then I went into it and
it's like. There was over 100 different languages
that are just lost forever in that whole what
is now called Mexico. And that's the reason why
everybody over there speaks Spanish and is Catholic.
Like it's not because that was their language
and that was their religion. They were all conquered.
Absolutely. By like 600 guys. That's what's nuts.
Yeah. 600 guys in the 1500s came over, took over.
You know, what was the Aztec Empire with help
of the people that they were in conflict with
and changed the course of the entire country.
For so many generations. For forever. Like to
this day, people in Mexico think they speak Spanish
and they have a Catholic religion. Well, that's
all brought over from Spain, like the entire
country. They had wild names, too, like Cacao
Thunder Sky God and all these different like
almost like Native American type names. Wow.
They looked like Native Americans. But if you
think about it, doesn't that make sense? That
makes so much sense. They probably like shared
land and crops and like. Well, there was no real.
There were no borders at that time. No, back
then. I mean, what were countries in the 1500s
in North America? Like, what was—we don't even
know. Like, what was North America like? I mean,
I think about how young America is technically.
Super young. Like, how many years? 300 years?
400 years? Yeah, less than 300 years. Yeah, and,
like, you were talking about history. In India,
she has been invaded over thousands and thousands
and thousands of years. Only invaded. We've never
invaded anybody else. She's not had the time.
India's like, just give me a break. Yeah, the
Portuguese, the British, the Mughals, like from
back in time and the history of India. I mean,
I'm not a historian and I don't claim to be,
but I find it really fascinating. I love culture
and especially the culture of India. Like you
will see my grandmother was Catholic. because
she was raised in a part of India which was colonized
and a lot of people, with Kerala, a lot of people
were converted into Catholicism. And she grew
up Catholic and, you know, she followed it for
a very long time in her life. India is, like,
hyper -diverse because of how many... People
have kind of made it her roots. So when you go
to India, the amount of diversity you will see,
the kind of the range of people that you will
meet is impossible to fathom. Like an Indian
face does not look like a particular person or
the amount of cultures, the languages. We have
written and spoken languages, which are almost
like 20 something or in their 30s. Absolutely
different alphabet, absolutely different sound.
I can't. If I go to another state, I won't be
able to understand what people are saying. Wow.
It's amazing. How many different languages are
spoken there? About 28 to 30. But there are dialects
in there, hundreds. Oh, wow. Don't even get into
the dialects. I just speak English and Hindi.
Understand a little bit of Punjabi and Marathi,
but it's really amazing. Have you ever been,
by the way? No, I haven't. Oh, Joe, you have
to. You would really, like, you're the kind of
guy who likes a deep dive. Yeah. You would really
lose yourself, I think, in an amazing way. Well,
I want to go just to see, for many things, but
just to see that one immense temple that was
carved entirely out of stone. Oh, yeah. It's
one of the great mysteries of archaeology. But
there are quite a few if you go especially south
of India and the caves, if you go inside the
Andaman and Nicobar. the caves you'll see from
thousands and tens and thousands of years ago
illustrations that that you're like how how did
this happen how could this temple have been chiseled
or how could These stones have been moved at
that time. It made me very, very curious about
what kind of tools did we have back then. Well,
there's a lot of holes in human history. Yeah,
for sure. Graham Hancock has a great quote. He
says that we are a species with amnesia. And
I think that's accurate. And I think when you
find some of the great archaeological wonders.
where people just have decided, oh, they built
it this way and then just let it go. And then
other people start looking at it and go, wait
a minute, how? How did they do this? Like, when
did they do this? Like, what's the historical
record of this? Because this is kind of nuts.
This seems to indicate like a very advanced,
sophisticated society. Yeah, a very advanced
civilization. Like one of the oldest civilizations
in the world. along with the Mayans, is the Indus
Valley civilization, which is the north of India.
Yeah. And I just remember studying about it in
school, and that's my maximum understanding of
that civilization, but also having visited the
Indus River, I guess. But I remember the artifacts
that were found. like if you do a deep dive into
how that civilization existed and then how it
was erased, and, you know, it makes you question,
like, there had to be some seriously advanced,
like, scientific understanding that was eventually
lost as, you know. as human evolution happened,
where we lose a civilization and then comes back
again. But it just makes you wonder about early
humans and how fascinatingly advanced we would
have had to be to do all of that. 100%. Without
the technology and stuff that we have. I think
they had technology. I think they had a different
technology. I think so too. I think they had
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.com slash joerogan. This one particular temple
that I'm talking about. Jamie, do you know the
temple I'm talking about? The one insanely massive
one that's built into the side of a mountain?
Kalisa Temple. This is it. This is crazy. This
is what I meant. Because the precision. First
of all, there's no understanding of where the
stone went. They moved who knows how many. How
did you take out all of those tons of rocks?
Yes. It's so insane. The precision is spectacular.
It's so nuts when you see videos of people going
through it. How huge is that? Immense. Absolutely
immense and incredibly precise. And just carved
out of a solid piece of stone. The whole thing
is carved out of the mountain. Think about how
old that is. Like, this is all... B .C., before
Christ, like thousands and thousands of years
B .C. And the history of India, like, hence the
diversity. You see, it's one of the oldest civilizations
in the world. And then, like, how do you explain
that? Look at that image. So it says it's 12,
what does it say? How old did it say it was?
1200 B .C. How do they know that? I can't be
right. 1 ,200 years old? See, there's a lot of
just estimates based on what was the civilization
at the time. And there's no, like, this is the
thing with Peru. Like, Sacsayhuaman and a lot
of these places were attributed to the Incas.
But you see, like, traditional Inca structures
on top of these immense stones that are 100 tons.
They're carved in these weird jigsaw patterns
just to absorb the energy if there's an earthquake.
Like, it's weird shit. like okay well who did
that so like oh the incas did it like how how'd
they do that because all their other structures
are smaller stones stacked on top of each other
in a way like you could see a person carrying
them and cutting them makes sense but there's
a lot of stuff like that temple like Explain
to me what you used. There's no explanation.
Like how? Metal? You just use metal and carve
that out like that? And like just a chisel and
human. And if you fuck up once, it's over. Because
you're not putting things on top of things. Like,
oh, this block sucks. Let's get a new block.
No, you're carving. Do you change the design
if there's a fuck up? Like, you know what I mean?
If you're trying to build. That's a good question.
Like a human form and you chisel off the nose.
Right. Do you turn it into something else? I
don't know. Probably. Otherwise, because it's
just one piece and you're right, you're not adding
anything to it. Well, in Egypt, there's indications
that they abandoned certain pieces because they
cracked. Because when you're dealing with, you
know, granite, and there's certain, specifically
there's a gigantic obelisk that they were carving
out. I mean, I think it was like 1 ,300 tons,
like something bananas. Like, okay, how are you
going to move this fucking thing? But they got
to a certain point where there's a crack in it,
and so they had to abandon it. And so it's still
there. And it's just there? Yeah, it's still
there. I think that's in, it might be in Aswan.
I'm not sure where it is. Do you know, like...
You know, the theories around the Egyptian pyramids,
obviously, like how were those blocks carried
up? There's no valid theory. Zero. How was it
in that shape? And so precisely, geometrically,
you know? Well, it's even more complicated now
because there's an Italian scientist that we
had on recently called Filippo Biondi. Am I saying
it right? Biondi? He's an amazing accent, this
guy. He's fucking incredible. But he's using,
what is it, radio, Doppler, tomography. Wow.
It's a type of satellite imagery that uses some
technology to get a vision of what's under the
ground. And they've used this successfully to...
show known caverns in the ground and known pyramids.
And they even used it in Italy to show that they
can look through a 1 .2 kilometer mountain and
see underneath it this particle collider and
have an exact dimension of the particle collider
and see the outlet. So they used this on the
pyramids and they found these immense structures.
under the pyramids that go over a kilometer into
the ground with massive, these huge... 20 -meter
diameter columns that have these huge circular
coils wrapped around them. No one knows what
the hell they're looking at, but they're in very
precise positions. They've done over 200 scans
of these things. They don't know what they are.
They don't know what's the purpose of all this,
who made this. So this turns out to be accurate,
and they're very confident that it's accurate,
and they're starting to look into it deeper,
and they're trying to figure out how to get down.
in there and explore with drones or something.
Then the whole thing gets thrown into question
because it's preposterous enough that you have
someone who's able to. cut and place 2 ,300 ,000
stones that's perfectly aligned, a true north,
south, east, and west. Some of them weigh as
much as 80 tons. Tons, which is insane. They
come from 500 miles away through the mountains,
no roads. Like, how'd you do it? That's crazy.
That's crazy in itself. But if there's structures
underneath that that go a kilometer into the
ground, and, like, there's a giant... like a
huge square at the bottom. They don't know what
it is, but these are structures. These are not
like something that is just a naturally occurring
stone. Yeah, it was man -made. Show her an image
of it. It's fucking kooky. So what, is that like
how? So these are these columns. This is like
what the images are showing, and the three -dimensional
replication of what they think is, that's what
they think it looks like underneath there. They
have no idea what these things are. What? There's
also, Is that Hawara that has that underground
labyrinth? They've also found – Herodotus wrote
about these labyrinths. There's a great channel
on YouTube called Uncharted X by this guy Ben
Van Kirkwick who's been on the podcast before.
He's great. And they've used – Well, they used
ground penetrating radar in that location. They
found that these immense labyrinths are real.
They're there. They're huge. Herodotus said it's
greater than Giza and it's underground. And in
the center of one of these atriums, there is
a 40 meter metallic object that's shaped like
a tic -tac. It's in the center of this. Yes.
So. There's a bunch of shit that they can't explain
down there where you're like, okay, what is this?
They also know that a lot of these civilizations,
like later versions of it, took from some of
the older sites and started building new things
or built on top of them, like very disrespectfully.
Nobody had an idea of like the importance of
history back then. You're just trying to stay
alive. And so they found all these stones. Let's
use these stones. Oh my gosh, totally. In India,
like when we were colonized, you hear stories
of, you know, the British officers telling like
little kids that, hey, I'll give you two pounds.
Go and get the gold statue from this temple or
whatever. And you don't have comprehension of
what the value of. historical things were that
there was so much that was taken from India in
terms of wealth and history and historical artifacts
and the Kohinoor diamond, which is still on the
Queen's crown, which came from India. And like
so many things. The Queen of England? Yeah. She
has a diamond on her crown that she stole from
me. Can you pull it up? Kohinoor diamond. K -O
-H -I -N -O. Give it back. Yeah, we've been asking
for it for a minute. We have. Well, the whole
history of England and India is nuts, too. That's
the diamond? Whoa. How big is that sucker? The
crown of the queen. How big is that thing? How
big would that be? What is that worth? Besides
the historical value of it, which is probably
priceless, what is 105 carats worth? That's nuts.
A couple hundred million. I mean, that's what
I'm saying. The royalty in India had so much
jewelry and wealth and stuff that was pillaged
and just taken. Well, the history of India is
fascinating, like in the Vedic texts and the
descriptions of Vimanas. Have you ever read any
of that stuff? Yeah, the Vedas. Not extensively,
but clearly you have. The Vimanas, it's like,
what are you talking about? You're talking about
flying crafts? Yeah. That's the thing. If you
do a deep dive into the mythology of India and
the stories that come from there, the kind of
technology that has been mentioned in these ancient
texts, like the Vimanas you're saying, you have
flying objects, you have spears with some sort
of energy, you have bows and arrows with some
sort of energy that travels beyond time and light.
And there's so much of all of this stuff referenced
back then, which maybe humans thought was magic,
but was some form of ancient technology. Like
who's to say? But we do definitely believe in
Indian mythology. If you go back into Hinduism
and and the incredible stories that exist, like
I love to think about where the origin, like
where it must have come from. But there's so
many fascinating, fascinating stories from then.
Yeah, I have an opinion that most people that
were writing things down back then were trying
to document a truth. Yeah, for sure. I don't
think they were trying to make up stories. No,
I think it was definitely their truth. But from
our perspective now, we have to be like, how
do you break down the truth of... You know, that
there was this light that arrived from miles
and miles away and it felt like, I don't know,
was it a bomb? Like, what was it? What was it
of that time? Right. So it's cool to kind of
try and interpret that. I mean, I believe in
the mysticism and the magic of ancient humans
and, you know, the beginning of time. There's
no way to explain. what and how that was. You
know, we have the information we do from religious
texts and historians of the past, but it's just
really fascinating to think about how resilient
and human beings have been and how evolutions
have had the same problems over time, but we
kind of just navigated through different worlds,
you know? I think, yeah, I think it's hard for
us to grasp timelines and It would be impossible.
Think about how short a human lifespan used to
be to where it is now. Our stories have to come
from people telling people's stories or documenting
them. Right, right. And those stories, when you're
talking about certain... passages in the bible
or certain passages in any religious text a lot
of those were stories that were just handed down
for generations and generations before anybody
wrote anything yeah so it's like what were they
trying to remember like when they're talking
about flying vimanas like what were they talking
about like what did they experience and how long
ago was it because i don't think we have a real
understanding of how long ago it is I mean, 17
,000 BC is... Where or around that time, that
many years ago is what they say. But again, that
makes sense. Well, that makes sense if you take
into account the 20 ,000 B .C. There's a guy
named Randall Carlson who's been on my podcast
a few times, and he's a really fascinating guy.
And he's an expert in asteroid collisions with
Earth. Wow. He's an expert in all the different
times that Earth has been slammed by comets and
meteors. Is that how the dinosaurs were? So it
was an asteroid? Yeah, they believe so. It was
in the Yucatan, that one. That's the 65 billion
years ago one. But there's other ones that are
before that. Before that? Yeah, and then there's
other ones that are after that. One of the more
interesting ones is called the Younger Dryas
Impact Theory. And that one's from about 11 ,800
years ago. And then again, they think somewhere
in the 10 ,000 years that happened. So there's
a comet storm that we pass by. I think it's every
June and November. I forget what the time is.
But this is like also aligns with – do you know
about the Tunguska event? Have you ever heard
of that? In the early 1900s, a meteor exploded
in the sky above Russia. devastated like a million
acres of land. And it was during the same time
period. And they realized like there's this comet
storm that we pass through. Like when you see
meteor showers in the sky, it's because we're
passing through these areas of our solar system
that have these comets. This is the Tunguska
event. So it just, and to this day, that area
has no trees on it. Whoa. Yeah. So it just flattened
everything. And it didn't even impact the ground.
It blew up in the sky above it. And this was
not even a big one. So how does nothing grow
again? That's a good question. What is that asteroid
made of? Earth has been able to come back from
so much. Yeah, that's a good question. That's
crazy. Maybe it's just not enough time. I don't
know. I mean, 117 years, maybe eventually. It
needs like a millennia. But it probably just
blew the roots off of everything. It blew everything
into smithereens. And it probably had some kind
of... chemical effect too, because it's a physical
object. I don't know what it was made out of,
but you know, some of them are made out of iron.
Some of them are made out of nickel, like that
big one that they saw three eye Atlas that passed
through. That was a weird one because they were
like, this is a nickel alloy. That is as big
as the size of Manhattan. And the only way we
have it on Earth is in industrial manufacturing
of an alloy. But this thing in another planet
somewhere else millions and millions and millions
of years ago was formed under whatever weird
circumstances and conditions their planet has.
But you, I mean, I want to know your thoughts
on this, but you definitely don't think we're
like the only... species existing in the universe
right i don't think that's possible it's it's
human arrogance if we think we do yeah that seems
silly yeah it doesn't make sense there's just
too many planets it's a it's a silly thing to
think and they found evidence of life on mars
there so they found evidence of some sort of
bacterial life on mars like the traces of bacterial
life um and that's you know right there that's
what i'm saying maybe it's just in within our
milky way I mean, we haven't even been able to
travel outside of that yet to get information.
But there has to be other species that exist
and other intelligence and technology. Do you
know the actor Terrence Howard? I mean, I know
of him. Fascinating guy. Like a little kooky,
but super smart. Like super smart. He's got some
wild ideas. One of his ideas, I was like, wait,
what? He thinks that life occurs. When planets
get a certain distance from their sun and then
over time they get too far out and then life
doesn't exist on those planets anymore. But when
they're in this Goldilocks zone like Earth is
for a long period of time and relative to our
life, life. exists and then intelligent life
emerges and figures out hey we got to get out
of here eventually because this is not going
to sustain us and then it propagates the world
or the universe rather and he thinks that there's
a thing that happens and he calls it peopling
he thinks that when a planet gets far further
enough from the sun that it eventually peoples
Because it eventually reaches the right conditions
where life emerges and evolution takes place
and natural selection and random mutation. All
these things converge and eventually you get
an intelligent creature that knows how to manipulate
its environment. Is there any proof of planets
moving away from their sun? Well, they all do,
slowly. Very slowly. So even our solar system,
we're all like slowly. Yeah. And also the sun
is eventually going to burn out and explode.
And then we're fucked. But that's a long time
from now. There's enough shit to be worried about.
Nothing's permanent. Suns are not permanent.
And we're lucky. We have a slow burn sun. So
we have a relatively small sun. And there's a
lot of weird. speculation that it's part of a
binary solar system too, that there might have
been another version of our sun that burned out
that's like way out there, like way out in space,
like way past Pluto, way out there. I'd buy that.
It's possible. I mean, there's a lot of wacky
theories as to why there seems to be some large
object that's outside of our vision. That's way,
way past Pluto. So there's a thing called the
Kuiper Belt that's outside of Pluto, and that's
part of what Pluto is, which is why they decided
it's not really a planet anymore. But they think
there's something else out there. They call it
Planet X. It's a lot of weird speculation whether
or not it's real, but they think there might
be a large body, larger than Earth, like Jupiter
-sized or something, like way out there. And
it might be a sun. It might be a burnt -out sun.
Like a burnt -out sun that was... Just crazy.
Well, Earth alone. The reason why we have the
moon, supposedly, is because Earth was hit by
another planet. So was the moon part of the Earth?
The moon was like a big chunk of that collision
that burst off and then became the moon. So there's
Earth 1 and Earth 2. So does that happen with
all the planets? Because all the planets that
have their own moons are... Explosions, maybe?
That's a good question. I mean, maybe some of
them are enormous asteroids that got caught in
the gravity. Maybe it's volcanic activity. I
don't know. I think a lot of it's asteroid impacts,
too. They knock off giant chunks, and those chunks
start orbiting that planet. So does that mean
that all of those planets do have a gravitational
pull as well? Oh, yeah, they all have a pull.
How strong would that gravitational pull be?
It depends on the mass of the planet. Like Jupiter,
for example. Jupiter is what protects us. The
reason why we don't get hit a lot is because
Jupiter is so big. So Jupiter has so much mass
and so much gravity that it's like our big brother
that protects us. Thanks, Jupiter. For real.
No, that's great. And they actually observed
an impact on Jupiter. I want to say it was in
the 1980s. where an enormous asteroid slammed
into Jupiter and created an Earth -sized explosion.
Which separated from? No, it just got absorbed.
Jupiter just absorbed it, but they watched it
in real time. And it was a way bigger explosion
than they thought it was going to be. So then
they have to recalculate, like, oh, how big was
that thing? And it made a literal impact as large
as the Earth. Oh, my God. Yeah. I have to see
that video. Well, the solar system is just a
fucking shooting gallery, which brings us back
to this Younger Drives Impact theory, which is
one of the predominant theories as to why ancient,
super advanced civilizations completely disappeared
and there's no evidence of them. And there's
a lot of physical evidence. When they do core
samples of the Earth, they find there's a lot
of iridium, which is very common in space but
very rare on Earth, which indicates some sort
of an impact. And then they also find micro diamonds,
these nuclear diamonds. I think they call it
trinitite. And they first observed this when
they did the Trinity explosion. So the nuclear
explosion created these micro diamonds on the
ground, just a massive impact and explosion,
heat and energy. find those littered all throughout
the world in this same core sample timeline of
like 11 ,800 years so they think we were just
bombarded so a lot of these things like these
temples in India perhaps the pyramids some structures
that were stone probably just survived no for
sure there's so much that has survived I think
from like timeline we can't even explain. I mean,
in India, we see so much of it. So many of our
texts, the Vedas are the oldest texts in the
world. And to be able to read stories, which
now maybe we imagine are stories, but are probably
reality of a civilization gone by, is just crazy
to think about. I think more likely than not.
And I think more and more over time, people are
opening up to this possibility. They recently
just found written language that is 28 ,000 years
old. And they thought that human written language
was created about 6 ,000 years ago. And they
found evidence of language. I didn't read about
this. So they're like, okay. That's a giant difference.
But how can we also know what happened in so
many parts of the earth when anyway the earth
was moving, right? Like the continents, what
it looks like right now is not. what it probably
looked like 20 ,000 years ago. It's been... Slowly
moving. I feel like how are we supposed to know,
like someone who writes a book, say in Mexico,
like what happened then in Australia or what
happened, what was the history in like India,
you know what I mean? Right. Especially 15, you
know, 1500s, 1600s. Yeah, years ago. When they
were writing about stuff back then, they were
just making shit up. So the shit that we read.
Here it is. Human may have used these mysterious
symbols to encode information tens of thousands
of years before the first writing systems. 40
,000 -year -old artifacts. Yeah. So it's some
kind of way of documenting things. Of communicating.
You know, if these people like Graham Hancock
and Randall Carlson are correct. There was some
sort of a very, very advanced civilization pre
-11 ,800 years ago. And this also coincides with
the end of the Ice Age. It coincides with all
of the ice caps over North America disappearing.
Like North America was covered, like three -quarters
of North America was covered with a mile -high
sheet of ice. went away like that. That's why
the Great Lakes exist. The Great Lakes are just
that ice melted and then whatever was left just
ran through the country and you can see the physical
evidence of it when they show satellite images.
It looks like enormous amounts of water just
destroyed the landscape and completely carved
it and changed it. What do you think happened
with, and I wonder if you have, because you have
so much extensive knowledge with the amazing
guests that you have on the show, how did we
go from Neanderthal or early man to this technology
driven like really smart intelligent like what
happened in in history in the evolution of human
beings that we were able to make that switch
so quick it's a real good question there's a
lot of you know i mean i i've heard theories
but i want to know yours um if i didn't worry
at all about being ridiculous and i don't You
don't. There was no need for that precursor.
But if I didn't worry about that, I would say
something helped us. That's what I think. I don't
think it makes sense that that didn't take place.
Yeah, it's crazy to think about how that happened
and how quickly it happened. Yeah, there's a
lot of weird stuff with us. Also, all those other
primates are still around, except the early man
ones. You know, that's what's weird. It's like,
why aren't, you know, how come chimpanzees are
kind of the same? How come all these other primates
are kind of the same? And yet we need clothes
to stay warm. Yeah, like a mammoth to an elephant.
You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, still similar.
Yeah, it makes sense. How do we have, like, planes?
And why do we like things? And how could we make
cups? Yeah, why do we change our environment
that way? Why do we have this insatiable desire
to innovate? Insatiable. That's the number one
thing that we do. Constantly changing. Constantly
making new and better things. Never satisfied
with anything new. Everything has to be better.
It doesn't matter how good your car is. What's
the next year's model going to be? No matter
what your phone does. I want better pictures,
bitch. No matter what. It's always like we want
something to be better all the time. We can one
up what we had. What is that? I think it's built
into us. And I think that is a part of this process
of becoming a human being. And I think it's leading
us to develop AI. That's what I really think.
But I think we most likely something intervened.
Now, there's a lot of people that think the rational
people think that it was the invention of fire
and the cooking of food that gave us better access
to nutrition and protein and then innovating
in order to hunt allowed the brain. But it was
such an accelerated period of time. It went like
so quickly. The human brain size doubled over
a period of two million years, which is the greatest
mystery in the entire fossil record. Yeah. Like
what made that happen? We don't know. In religious
texts, ancient religious texts, there's many
stories of human beings breeding with something
from somewhere else. That's a part of it. Alien
intervention. Yes. Yes. Right. Without trying
to sound ridiculous. Hyper intelligent life form.
But if you think about it. I was watching a show
about that and I was like, that makes sense.
What was the show you were watching? Do you remember?
Ancient Aliens. That show's the best. It's so
silly. It's amazing. But I was like two in the
morning. I'm like, oh. My friend Action Bronson,
he used to do a show. He doesn't do that show
anymore, does he? They would get super baked
and watch Ancient Aliens. They'd be like, bro.
Ancient Aliens is rad. I love that show. Two
in the morning. Oh, it's fun. It's very fun.
I think they're right about some of those things.
I think there's something to it. I mean, that
is. One of the oldest biblical texts that wasn't
included in the canon that is the Bible is the
Book of Enoch. And I had Anna Paulina Luna on
the podcast, and she brought that up, and she
was like, you really should read that. So I read
it, and you start reading it, and you're like,
wait, what the hell are they talking about? The
Watchers came down from the sky to mate with
humans and created the Nephilim, a race of giants
that destroyed the earth? What are you talking
about? Like, what is this? This is in the Bible
and it would have been in the Bible if it not
for a few rabbis that decided this doesn't jive
with the Torah. And so they say, we got to get
that out of there. And that's why it's not taught
along with the book of Ezekiel and all these
other things that are in the Old Testament. Wow.
Versus like in Hindu mythology also, you know,
we read about a time where God, human and demon
existed at the same time and procreated. created
different realms and, you know, life and stories
and, you know, so it's like when you think about
stories like that, stories, beliefs, you know,
from around the world that have similar sort
of color, it's almost like trying to connect
the dots of what must have happened at that time,
you know, all around the world. It's probably
the same thing, you know, some sort of incredible
technology. Yeah. And a lot of them have these
stories of something of some kind of higher nature,
higher power, higher technology intervening in
the lives of human beings and even manipulating
the process. Yeah, but isn't that what I think
was referred to as the gods? Yes. Like if you
think about the Roman. you know, or Egyptian
gods. I don't want to speak about culture, but
I can't even say about ours, but that power that
we read about, you know, like if you go into
it, I'm a big believer. So I think that, you
know, was that... Like a real experience that
happened to a human being at that time? A real
experience with someone that had a limited vocabulary,
a limited amount of knowledge, and a limited
ability to write things down. And so they probably
told these stories from whatever words they could
use to describe what this was. Like if you were
living 30... thousand years ago 40 ,000 years
ago and a UFO landed a giant metallic disc landed
and little tiny creatures came out and talked
to you telepathically you don't have a written
language you don't your cultures hunter -gatherers
like how do you tell that story how do you tell
that story and what are the people that you told
that story to going to tell their children and
their grandchildren for many many many many generations
before anybody figures out how to write things
down Totally. But another perspective on this,
which people have is, is that our pragmatic,
practical 2026 human trying to explain something
that was magical and did exist at a time that
we don't have an explanation for? Yeah. You know
what I mean? For sure. Like, there's the other
side of that with people that, you know, you
hear so many stories of. visitations from the
gods back then, you know, to humans and the divinity
of, at least in my country for sure, of different
avatars of gods coming down to earth to save
humankind and to help in human salvation and
to help them against evil. So when you hear of
those stories, like the practical side of me
would be like, are those human stories? And who
is that? power that they were seeing at that
time and then there's a side of you which is
like there's so much we can't explain and sometimes
have to like leave it to inexplicable magic of
the universe like I'm someone who loves science
but I also am a believer of that you just can't
explain everything Well, even science itself,
like hardcore materialist science. Totally. If
you're trying to explain the Big Bang, good fucking
luck. Good fucking luck making sense out of something
smaller than the head of a pin that became everything
that's in the universe. Okay. Explain that to
me. Help me out. I mean, it's all theoretical
and speculative and no one really knows. And
then there's this concept of what took place
before the Big Bang. And then there's Sir Roger
Penrose's version of it, which is there's been
many versions of the Big Bang expansion, then
contraction, and that it's not the beginning,
that it's part of an endless cycle. That's what
I've... I mean, I've heard from in India as well,
the believer belief that that was not kind of
the beginning. There's been many beginnings and
many ends that we have no idea of. That makes
more sense to me. It makes more sense because
I think the problem with a beginning, we're like,
well, what was here originally? We always want
to think of things in terms of our own biological
limitations. We have a birth and we have a death.
So we think that the universe probably has a
birth. Everything has a limitation. But why?
It's there. Like time. What is time's limitation?
Who knows when? It's constant. It's never not
been here. Yeah. So the idea that there was nothing
before the universe, well, that doesn't even
make sense. It's funny. When I was doing research
for The Bluff, this movie, I went to the Cayman
Islands for a couple of days to... get an understanding
of the history of the islands. And the Caribbean
is so interesting, especially Cayman, because
it's in the middle of these trading routes between
Honduras, Cuba, Mexico. So ships, when trading
started, is when the Cayman was discovered, the
islands were discovered. So when I went down
there, I went to the museum, and they said, yeah,
it was like the 1700s or 1800s when the first
settlers came. And, you know, it started with
family or like... People trying to run away or
pirates or, you know, just people making pit
stops before going to another country. And they
said that that was the first time that there
was any history of the island. And I was like,
how's that possible? That only when, like, settlers
found that place. And now, I mean, Cayman Islands,
Cayman Islands. Right. But how, like, if you
think about there's so many places in the world
where. People and humans have existed way before
we even have an understanding of or are willing
to acknowledge. In many cultures it's different.
But we just lost the history of it. That's possible
too. That's what my argument was. We have to
have lost the history of what happened prior.
There's an entire culture from South America
that we don't know who they were. The Olmecs.
We have some giant carved heads. And we're like,
oh, who did that? Where did that come from? They're
thousands and thousands of years old. They look
African. It's very strange. Have you seen Olmec
heads? Oh, they look like this. That's an Olmec
head. Like, how nuts is that? Like, that's a
replica of these enormous heads that are in,
I think, is it Peru? Luke Caverns, who's been
on the podcast, he's a really fascinating guy
who does a lot of research down there. He's been
there and documented and he's like, they don't
know who these people were. They don't know what
their language was. They don't even know what
they look like except for these images. And they
don't even know if these images are supposed
to be of them, like these statues. See if you
can find some of these heads so you can see like
the... the scale of them. So they left these
enormous stone heads. They attribute it to this
one civilization that they call the Olmecs. They
just made a name up. But they don't know who
the hell these people were. And look at their
faces. Like, that's crazy. That's huge. Yeah.
And do you know how old these might be? They
don't really know, but I think... How many thousands
of years old do they think they are, Jamie? Crazy
stuff. Yeah. So at least 900 B .C. But what does
that mean? Yeah. That's a guess. That's a guess.
Because they don't know anything. A long time
ago. A long time ago. Well, even the Aztecs.
Do you know the Aztecs didn't build those temples?
They found them. The Aztecs found the Aztec temples?
They found them from an unknown previous civilization.
Oh, my God. Yeah, they called those temples the
place where the gods were born. Yeah. That's
what they called them. And they just kind of
like cleaned it up, which kind of makes sense
because you think of like how barbaric the Aztecs
were. Like they did some horrific shit. Like
we were talking about one of the temples. I think
it was Tenochtitlan when they consecrated it.
They killed between 20 and 80 ,000 people. They
sacrificed them in a period of four days. And
so this is like right when the Spanish were first
visiting Mexico thinking about taking over. And
this guy Diaz, this Spanish chronicler said it
was the fucking craziest thing. They killed 80
,000 people, he said, over a period of four days.
Just cut their hearts out and threw their bodies
down the stairs. Like nuts. This episode is brought
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.com to find a store near you. Like, so these
are the people that were... Yeah, you think about,
like, how countries were, like, conquests happen
and, like, you know, we're living in the history
of so many people's blood and... And sacrifices.
And violence. And so much violence. An unfathomable
amount of violence. How are humans so capable
of that kind of violence? Having done a really
violent movie right now. Because chimps. Because
we're mostly chimp. And I think if you pay attention
to chimps, like have you ever seen Chimp Nation
on Netflix? No, I haven't. It's fantastic. It's
just. It's spectacular because it is a very rare
situation where this one particular group of
chimpanzees, they were embedded with these. scientists
for 20 years so the scientists had very specific
rules don't get within 20 yards of them don't
make eye contact with them don't have any food
with you okay and don't don't interfere and they're
they're totally accustomed to having people around
them so they behave totally naturally yeah and
so they wage war they have all these like crazy
social dynamics so they behave like they would
in the wild because they're used to these humans
exactly and when you watch it you're like oh
my god they are a lot like us They're a lot like
us, just like very primitive, no language, but
ultra violent. Chimps are ultra violent. I mean,
one of their favorite foods, this guy was telling
me, was monkeys. They just love eating monkeys.
He goes, we saw them kill so many monkeys, we
couldn't even document it. He goes, because if
it would just be like, every day was like a monkey
hunt. They would tear these monkeys apart and
eat them alive. It's horrific. That's our ancestors.
So what we are is a combination. Well, that explains
it. Yeah, it explains it. We're a combination
of some higher intelligence that interbred with
a savage primate that's curious and created this
weird hybrid, this weird thing. Listen, that's
what ancient aliens told me. Yeah. And I believe
it. I think they're right. They're right about
that. Have you ever seen Chariots of the Gods?
No. That's the original one. Eric Von Daniken.
That was in like the 1970s. It was a movie, like
a feature movie. I mean, I remember the movie,
but I don't remember having seen it. Yeah. I
had lunch with him once. Got a chance to question
him about stuff. He's like a true believer. Yeah,
what does he believe? Like a true believer. What
are his beliefs? Well, he believes that everything
is from aliens. That aliens came down and aliens
taught people how to do things and aliens built
all these things. I'm more in line of they intervened
and created what we think of now as humans. And
then humans figured out a different path of technology
than we're on today. That we are on the path
of internal combustion engines, electronics,
electricity. And they were probably on some different
path of technology, but as far down the path,
if not more. figure out, including the transferring
and the moving and shipping of enormous stone
blocks without heavy machinery. We don't know
what they were doing. Teleportation. I don't
know. How did they cut them? If those structures
that Filippo Biondi describes, if that's real,
what was the pyramid then? Was it a machine?
First, they created the structure. Imagine the
foundation and the design that went into it.
A half a mile deep into the earth. Crazy. What
is that? What are you doing? I just know that
we can't explain that quick evolution of humans
from Neanderthal to highly intelligent. Yes,
we can. Yeah. I mean, there's just a lot of people
saying, well, we haven't filled in the gaps yet.
Yeah. We don't really know. But the acceleration
of the evolution is so spectacular. Vegans are
hilarious. They attribute it to people eating
tubers. I had a conversation with a guy. He's
like, we're thinking it's probably tubers. Like,
what, roots? You mean like bears eat? Shut the
fuck up. That is the dumbest explanation. That
didn't even make any sense. I'm vegan. Are you
really? No, I'm joking. Congratulations. There's
no way you could be. No, I just had barbecue.
You would already fall asleep. For breakfast,
I had brisket. I was like, I'm here in Austin
for two hours. Yeah, you have to have barbecue
if you come here. Yeah. I just think that whatever
happened, we don't know. And I would not rule
out intervention. And I wouldn't think that an
intelligent species from somewhere else, if they
did find these very curious primates that may
already be working with sticks and rocks and
stuff like that, that they wouldn't intervene
because we do it. We're doing it right now. We're
doing it right now with animals. It's human nature
to do it. If we went to a planet somewhere and
we found some... fucking frogs or some weird
animals, but nothing big. We might drop a deer
off in there and see what happens. You know,
we might bring some birds in. You and Stephanie
would. We would intervene. They're doing genetic
manipulation of animals right now to bring back
extinct life. That's how they brought back the
dire wolf. This company called Colossal, Colossal
Bioworks, I saw it. I touched it. I went to –
Like – Yes. I went to the place where they're
holding these wolves and I got to – me and my
daughter got to cuddle with a baby dire wolf.
They had two semi -adults at the time. I think
they were like eight or nine months old. And
they've been extinct since when? 10 ,000 years.
Stop it. Yeah. Somewhere in the range of that.
I mean – Oh, my God. Yeah. When did direwolves
go extinct? I think they were part of the megafauna
that went extinct during the impact. Because
65 % of all megafauna on Earth, and particularly
in North America, went extinct around the same
time. Woolly mammoths. And do we know why? They
don't. Around the same time? There's a lot of
hypotheses. Like, was there something that happened
then? The rational people? Not me, but the rational
people think it was the berserker theory, which
means that human beings killed so many mammoths
that we wiped them out to extinction. But this
is with atlatls. Like, it doesn't make total
sense. It's like, how did you get? There's not
even that many people. How'd you do that? And
then there's also stuff like the American lion,
which was bigger than the African lion. How do
we kill that off with a fucking stick? Like,
shut the fuck up. Something had to have happened.
Well, they found... mass gravesites of mammoths,
where there's like hundreds of them dead, all
in one place, that seem to have died at the same
time. Not only that, some of them have broken
legs. It seems to indicate some great impact.
Yeah, so it had to have been like some asteroid
or something that created that kind of impact
immediately. But 65 % of all North American megafauna
died at the same time. That's so crazy. Yeah,
within a time period. And they think that the
Younger Dryas impact theory people... Think like
this is not a coincidence that this coincides
with the end of the Ice Age and also coincides
with where the core samples. Too many coincidences.
Yeah. And also the coincides with the fact that
these animals were all here at one point in time.
They all got wiped out except a very few. There's
only a few left. Like there's the pronghorn antelope,
which is a really weird one. It's this prehistoric
antelope that lives in North America. And it's
different than every other. animal here because
it's evolved to get away from cheetahs because
we used to have cheetahs in North America. So
it can run like 55 miles. It fucking books. I've
seen them in real life. They're really weird
looking. They look prehistoric. They fly. That's
what it looks like. See if you can get a look
at its face. Can you see it head on? They're
so strange. Like their eyeballs are on the sides
of their heads because something was coming at
them like, you know, 55 miles an hour at full
clip. And so. They're really, really alert. And
they have incredible vision. Wow. And that's
a leftover animal. That's a leftover animal from
a time where they were being preyed upon by something
that doesn't exist anymore. And that something
was wiped out along with the American lion. A
bigger lion than the African lion lived right
here. That's huge. That's crazy. I was filming
in Africa recently in Kenya. For this Indian
movie I'm doing called Varanasi. And we shot
with wildebeests. As in like in the middle of
them. Me and my co -actor Mahesh were in the
middle of these wildebeests that were all around
us while they were migrating. It's like the coolest
thing I've ever seen. But when you see their
faces and for how many years... of them have
existed. You know, you feel the gravity when
you see these animals in the wild. Yeah. It's
crazy. It's so much different than a zoo, right?
Oh, completely. Because you're like, oh, they've
always been here like this. Yeah, this is their
home. This is what they do. We're in it. You
feel a sense of like... Stay in your jeep. Well,
I think we're numb to it because we watch it
on film and so that we get sort of desensitized
and normalized to this idea of wildlife. Oh,
there's the lion sneaking up on the wildebeest.
How cool. But when you're there and you see a
lion, you see a wildebeest, you're like, this
is fucking crazy. This is all day long, every
day, these life forms competing to try to exist
and stay alive. And there's this weird balance
where all of them... They still exist. Yeah.
There will be wildebeest right there and there
will be a lion right here who's eaten. So they're
hanging out together. The wildebeest knows that
he's eaten. He's not coming after us. And they
exist. But at the same time, during hunting season,
you see the hunt happen. And I saw a hunt happen.
And that's crazy that that's their life. Yeah.
With their face. They kill things with their
face. Like literally. There's a really extraordinary
island in Africa where the river changed courses
and it left this one pack of lions on this one
island that only has water buffalo on it. And
so these lions became enormous. And the female
lions are as big as male lions everywhere else.
And the male lions are way bigger than they are
anywhere else. I think there's the documentary.
I think it's called Relentless Enemies. But it's
because they look like these jacked bodybuilder
lions. Those water buffaloes are huge. I had
one staring at me like we were in Kenya. I'm
like the video villages that we're filming. And
it's far away, but it just turned his head and
just looked at me and then just kept looking
at me. And I swear I had to, like, get up and
get out of its view because it just kept staring.
I was like, it's coming at me. They will come
at you. Yeah, for sure. They kill people all
the time. The rangers told us. They were like,
oh, I think he's engaged with you maybe. Maybe
get out of here. Get into your car. Yeah, there's
that poor lady who was a video editor on the
Game of Thrones, and she went to do a safari
there, and one of the lions pulled her out of
her car. Out of her car? Yeah, she rolled the
window down, or someone rolled the window down,
and a female lion just snatched her out of the
car and killed her. Oh, my God. Yeah. You have
to listen to your rangers. Yeah. When you're
in these situations. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, she
wanted a better picture or something. Yeah, that's
the shit that gets people into trouble. Oh, yeah.
One of our rangers was telling us a story. We
were in Masai Mara, and they were like, they
have open jeeps, and you have food that they
keep really hidden so that the animals can't
smell it under your seats and stuff. And he was
telling a story about this influencer. He's driving,
and there's a pack of lions. The lion's just
eaten, so he's sleeping. And this influencer
who puts his hand outside to try and touch the
lion's head. and got it on video and survived
to tell the story and then he was banned and
the ranger was like fired from his job and all
of that happened but for the image can you imagine
what a fucking idiot all for the gram oh my gosh
that was crazy yeah i mean there i mean i don't
want anything bad to happen to anybody but when
someone does something like that and does get
killed it's probably better Educationally for
the human race. But is it, though? Are we really
learning from other people and their examples?
Some people aren't learning shit. Nobody's learning
shit. We're just trying to put the best versions
of ourselves on the ground. Like, that's what's
happening right now. Whether it's true or not.
Yeah. But are we learning? Yeah, that's a good
question. I don't know. I mean, I think we are
also so desensitized to it. There's so much information
that comes your way and misinformation now. where
being able to discern what's real and what's
not now, that's hard as well. Oh, it's harder
than it's ever been. Totally. And then if you
do watch something and you're like, I'm going
to implement in my life, we do it for a very
short duration. Very few of us follow through
with that, right? Like you're watching a reel
or somebody says something and you're like, that's
really cool. Are we going to pull on that thread
and follow through and do something about it
or learn from it? I don't know. I feel like we've
lost a lot of, That space where we had the time
or the desire to want to, you know, fulfill ourselves
versus just that with so much coming at you.
I think collectively as a society, I think we
learn and then we forget and then we have to
relearn again. Yeah. You know, that's that's.
But the attention span now where, you know, I
remember when I was growing up, like just having.
the languidity of time, right, in a very different
way. And this is like, say, 30 years ago, 30,
35 years ago of, you know, reading a book, music
playing, hanging out with your parents or your
friends without being rushed, just rushed. You
know, I don't remember feeling as rushed as I
do now in the last 20 years when I was growing
up. Like there was time for stuff. Yeah. Well,
certainly the Internet has accelerated that.
And certainly people's attention spans are at
least pulled in the direction of short attention
span content. But at the same time, podcasts
have emerged, which is interesting. It's so interesting.
I was talking about this to a friend of mine.
People who have no time or interest in wanting
to commit to, say, a movie will watch or listen
to a podcast for two or three hours. And for
someone like me, who I've been an actor for most
of my life, my interface with people would be
an interview, say, for example. people who knew
me or audiences that wanted to know about me,
would be an interview where the highlights are
really what you read, the clickbait lines are
really what you read, and you form a relationship
with whoever this public person is based on those
few lines versus this format where you're just
chatting for a few hours and you have the ability
to really be yourself and be seen as yourself,
which is why I think people really love... podcasts
well i think it's much more illuminating in terms
of if you want to like find out who a person
really is yeah because you can't really hide
for three hours like that's who you are and i
think for most people that's scary right and
so what they like about those fake shows like
good morning america or whatever it is you know
what i mean like you're sitting down You know,
the guy's got a piece of paper. So he's got a
few questions he's going to ask you. And they're
all going to be like very surface, very jovial.
What's it like to be married? You know, what's
it like to do this? What's it like to do that?
So you had a baby. Congratulations. That kind
of shit. And then you're out of there. It's 10
minutes. And you're like, oh, that went well.
And then nobody knows anything about you. It's
true that you're just basically known by the
top. four questions that everybody asks you so
it's like the same four questions that everybody
asks right um and what was it like to work with
this person what was she like in person what
was he like for me mostly it's like a lot about
my family like it it's like that my identity
starts there and then everything else comes after
well you're fascinating in that you you've done
movies in two different cultures so like i wanted
to ask you about that like what is the bollywood
scene like because I wasn't even aware of it
until like 20 years ago I didn't know that like
Bollywood is like this enormous like the amount
of films that are produced in India is kind of
crazy yeah it's a big business huge huge hundred
and something years of Indian cinema just recently
So a very, very old industry. We started with
silent movies and have worked our way now to,
and that's not just Bollywood. I'll break that
down in a second. Because India is so diverse
and we have so many different languages, again,
excuse me, I didn't know the exact number, but
we have local industries that make movies in
those languages. So Bollywood is... Bombay it
comes from Bombay I think that's why it was coined
that name from Hollywood but the Bombay movie
industry again it was not us that did that it
was a name that was given to us I don't know
by who but Bollywood is the Hindi language industry
which exists in Mumbai which is like LA It's
huge. We make thousands and thousands of movies.
But then there's also Telugu, Tamil, Punjabi,
Malayalam, Marathi, Bhojpuri. These are all robust
industries that are localized within every state
that also exists. So cumulatively, we make thousands
and thousands of movies a year, but it's catered
to very, very different audiences within the
diversity of India. Wow. How many people have
come from India, like you, and become stars in
Western movies? I think there have been a few
before me, you know, that have done work. That
first one I heard of. No one's made it to me
yet. Well, thank you. Yes, I think that it's
been few and far in between. I think America
is a really hard country to break into, to be
relevant in. It's tough. And also, like, I think
Hollywood... controls a large part of the global
entertainment business. So as an actor from anywhere
in the world, if you want to break into the English
language, global entertainment, Hollywood system,
it's not easy to do that. You know, culturally
it's different, language is different, jokes
are different. So that's a tough transition.
But it's also like, for me, I... I went to high
school. Oh, by the way, you went to Newton and
I went to Newton, too. Did you really? I went
to Newton North. You went to Newton South. Yeah.
That's funny. That's crazy. Yeah. So I was in
high school in the States. And I, you know, so
it wasn't like alien to me. It's not like I was
in India and I was like, I want to go to America
and start working there. I really wanted to.
see what it would be like if I came down here
would there be an opportunity for someone like
me to you know be able to create an impact many
years later I feel like you know I'm on my way
there but there have been so many actors whose
shoulders I've stood on so Indian like Indian
casting in English language entertainment whether
it was Hollywood or you know British entertainment
wherever was usually by us seen as you know,
a diversity check. So it was mostly a stereotypical
actor or a stereotypical character with an actor
having to speak in the accent or having to like
do the, be a little bit more Indian. What does
that even mean? Did someone tell you that? I
was told in an audition, I think we needed the
character to be a little bit more Indian. And
I just like didn't even understand why. There's
so many versions of that, but I think what the...
Like this person meant was have a little bit
more of the accent. Be the character. Yeah, be
the character, which was really tough to break
out of. So, you know, at a time when it was only
that work that existed in Hollywood, like those
are the actors whose shoulders I stand on. Like
those were the ones that went in and did that
work because that was all that was available.
And, you know, tried to break through, especially
from like India, for example. Aishwarya Rai,
Amitabh Bachchan, Irrfan Khan. They've been actors
that have come in, done work and, you know, left
an amazing mark. But I moved here. I live here
now. And, you know, I'm consistently working
here. I think that also may have been a part
of why you've heard of me. Yes, I'm sure. Well,
I've seen you interviewed, too, which is why
I thought you were interesting. Thank you. I
appreciate that. I think you're very interesting.
knowledge of the world is fascinating to me well
it's all accidental cool how cool is that yeah
it's cool that's amazing I started this thing
out with my friend Brian and a laptop We were
just talking shit. We just thought it'd be fun
to do a little internet thing. Wow, how inspiring.
And that was 16 years ago. You're someone who's
pivoted your career so many times too, though.
Sort of, but it's all the same thing in that
I've only just done things I'm interested in
other than Fear Factor. That was just a job.
You know, I also hosted Fear Factor. Did you?
No. Shut up. For one year. Really? I did. Where?
In Brazil. In India. Shut the fuck up. That's
crazy. And we shot it in Brazil, in Rio. Wow.
That's nuts. We have such random things in common.
That is crazy. That's a crazy thing in common.
I need to see that. Let me see that. Find a clip.
This is hilarious. What language did you do it
in? Hindi. Wow. And it was in Rio, huh? We shot
it in Rio. We had a big budget that year. So
we were all flown out. So it was Fear Factor
India. I wonder how many versions of Fear Factor
there were. I mean, they're all over the world.
Really? Yeah. Fear Factor used to exist all over.
I don't know anymore, but back in the day. Once
I stopped doing it, I stopped paying attention.
I was like, I'm out. Me too. So I knew Ludacris
took it over at one point in time, and now Johnny
Knoxville's doing it. That's all I knew. I had
no idea that there was a bunch of different language
versions of it. Yeah, yeah. You know, it originally
came from a Holland show called Now or Neverland.
It's a crazy show. Yeah. It was way more simple.
And then when it got brought to America, they
decided to call it Fear Factor. The whole eating
thing, we didn't take that back to India. Really?
Yeah, we didn't do the eating. Because you never
know people are vegetarian. In India, it's a
big part of our culture where a lot of people
religiously are vegetarian or not. I think maybe
that's the reason. But there was not a lot of
like eat the worms and stuff, which I was very
grateful for. It was a lot more, you know, cliff
and falling off the cliff. And I remember there
was this one which was crazy. This 16 wheeler
which was driving at 60 miles an hour and everyone
had to take their vehicle. underneath it. Oh,
yeah. Underneath it and come out. Yikes. It was
insane. That's crazy. I didn't have to do it,
which is great. I was just hosting. Yeah, we
did a lot of stuff where I was like, we barely
got through that without killing somebody. Yeah,
and the death waivers. Yeah. Everyone had to
sign a death waiver. Oh, yeah. I was like, why
would you do a show where you have to sign a
death waiver? Yeah, and you can only win like
$50 ,000 and you might not win. You're probably
not going to win. There's a bunch of other people
in the show. And you could very easily get hurt.
Yeah. Yeah, but people want to be famous. They
want to be on TV. Like, I want to be on TV. Yeah.
Once it became popular and successful, it was
really easy to get people to do it, too. Everybody
wanted to sign up. But, I mean, there are, like,
protective measures, obviously. A little. We
made them ride bulls. We did, too. We put people
on bulls. Yeah. And there were a few that were
like, no, I'm not doing this. I'm out. I told
people not to do it. When I was talking to him
off camera, I said, don't do it. I wouldn't do
it. Don't do it. I would never do it. No way.
But people did it. Fuck that. Look at you. What
year was this? Please, I can't even remember.
It looks like a Fear Factor scene. It is. I was
on a helicopter. So do you know what year this
was? Oh, I can't. Did it say that? It just didn't
say. I don't know. I could check. Wow, Rio. I've
been to that. I stood outside the helicopter
as well. Rio's amazing. Wow. That's crazy. That
is so funny. It's just like Rear Factor. It's
the same thing. Yeah, it's totally Rear Factor.
So what did you guys do for the second stunt
if you didn't do a gross thing? You just did
a second scary thing? We did scary things mostly.
Oh, wow. That's probably better, honestly. I
mean, there were gross things too. Brazilian,
you know, red -eyed deviled rats that were put
all over you with, like, tongue and eyeballs
and stuff. But you didn't have to consume it.
Right. It was on you. Yeah. You didn't have to
eat it. A lot of the consuming it was psychological.
You get really accustomed to it, and then it's,
like, nothing. I mean, listen, people have eaten
crazy things through history, right? To stay
alive. To stay alive. Yeah. And, like, if we...
take our mind out of, like, oh my gosh, this
is gross, then it's not. Well, the thing is,
a lot of what we were serving as gross was some
people's food. Like balut. Like my Filipino friends,
they were like, bro, I eat that all the time.
Like, that's crazy. That would have been no problem.
I heard a more updated season. What? Oh my God.
I'm telling you, it's crazy. Lions in your...
What if that thing pops open? And you got to
roll that thing around with lions there? That's
great. Oh, the lions are duking it out with each
other? Fuck that. That's crazy. Yeah, like I
went to, I recently was on Fallon and there was
some bluffing game that we were doing because
the movie's called A Bluff. And, you know. I
said to Jimmy, I was like, I eat worms. And he
was like, no way, no way you don't eat worms.
But these worms are a delicacy in Zimbabwe. And
I was introduced to them. I don't know exactly
the history, but I was told during segregation,
you know, people, black people were put in areas
that weren't very fertile. You couldn't really
grow your crops and, you know, your animals.
So this was a way of, like, protein. These are
these fat caterpillars, high in protein, and
they're made in a curry. And when you actually
eat them, it's like chicken. I'm telling you,
it's like it was psychological. Well, you know,
cicadas, those things that come out. People eat
them here all the time. They bake them. Fried,
baked. Yeah, and apparently they're delicious.
I haven't had one of those. I haven't either.
I actually did when I was in eighth grade. Oh,
wow. That's what it looks like? Yeah. That's
crazy. But look at, like, they're made into a
curry. I ate a tomato hornworm on Fear Factor.
I ate a bunch of things when I was on the show.
I was like, there's nothing going into my mouth
on Fear Factor. I ate a sheep's eyeball on the
first episode. Because the first episode, I felt
bad that the people were on the show. Yeah, so
you were like, I'm going to. I'll eat it too.
All right. And they didn't show me eating it,
but I'm like, I'm going to eat it because you
guys have to eat it. That's so nice. And then
I ate a roach to try to convince a lady that
she could eat a roach. I ate worms. I ate an
Iraqi cave spider. I ate. What was the spider
like? Just chewy. But was it. The taste is not
bad. Was it alive when you ate it? Oh, yeah.
For the first couple seconds. Yeah. Yeah, all
the things that I ate were alive other than the
eyeball. The roach was alive. All those things
were alive. I put a cricket and live cricket
in my mouth. That's the Iraqi cave spider. How
do you put that in your mouth? Like this. Look
at those sides. You make sure you don't get those
pinchers. Wasn't that bad. I'm telling you, it's
psychological. You've got to get the body in
and not the pinchers. The pinchers have to stay
out. Yeah, I grabbed the pinchers to hold on
to the body. Yeah, that's the trick. Shut the
rest of it in. Like just that, yeah. People are
freaking out. But I'm telling you, it's all psychological.
It for sure is. Yeah, that was in Vegas. Everybody
was playing roulette. Yeah. No. But it's not
that bad. It's just in your head. It is psychological.
The actual flavor of it, it's not gross. Yeah,
it's not. The tomato hormone was kind of nasty.
I mean, if you're someone who's not vegetarian,
it's like you just have to get the... Yeah. It's
the psychology of it. Right. Exactly. Yeah. We
made people eat an entire ostrich egg. That was
disgusting because the volume. Like you're eating
an egg that's that big. Yeah, is it like really
fatty? It's raw. You're eating it raw. They just
cut the top off of the egg and you have to drink
it. You have to drink this gigantic white and
yolk. I'm already sick. My brisket's coming out.
The barbecue. But it's so oddly compelling. It's
oddly compelling watching people eat disgusting
things and struggling. I mean, I have to say
I did enjoy the show. That lady had to drink
that whole egg. Oh, my God. Did she puke? You
got to hold it down and then you can puke after
you're done. But if you puke in the middle of
it, you're just full time. Yes, they get rid
of you. That's a wrap. If you puke in the middle
of it. I would not be able to do the American
version. Yeah, it was gross. It was gross, but
it also made me totally desensitized to throw
up. That's a good talent to have. Oh, yeah. Like
you could throw up right in front of me. Especially
as like a dad. Exactly. Yeah. Well, I think being
a dad will get you. Yeah. Desensitize you to
everything. And all kinds of things like that.
But one time it's so like I'm completely still
to this day, completely desensitized to vomit.
So one time my wife was she came home from the
gym and she was on her way home from the gym.
She stopped. We got wheatgrass juice and it just.
didn't agree with her and she threw up in her
car and she was crying. She was like, I threw
up. It's in my center console. How am I going
to clean it? I go, I'll clean it. I'm just so
used to throw up. It was like no big deal. I
just went out there with a bunch of towels. But
when I was young, like in high school, I remember
if someone threw up in the hallway, I would be
like, bleh. Yeah, for sure. I couldn't help myself.
I'd start gagging. That's a natural instinct
because the idea is that we develop that because
if someone's throwing up, it means they ate something
bad. And you probably ate that too. Get it out
of you right away. And so that's why you start
throwing up. And I've killed that. I have just
trauma from, you know, tequila. Well, I watch
so many people throw up. And throw up. Me too,
man. I'm not going in there with a dishcloth.
Like, no. Wow. Well, from your show, for sure.
You did it for so long. You get very desensitized.
Yeah, for sure. But I'm desensitized to injuries,
too. Like, because of UFC. Yeah, for sure. Like,
people that get cut and people that get beat
up. It's, like, normal to me. I'm so accustomed
to seeing that. It's weird. I mean, I kind of
feel like that about stunts in movies. Like,
you know, nobody's supposed to get hurt. It's
a movie. You're not. Nobody's supposed to get
hurt. But like the little cuts and bruises and
the like the end of day. We're doing this for
10 to 11 hours, multiple takes all day. And then
between shots, you're rehearsing it. So I have
like so many scars on my body from my filmographies
on my body. Do you look forward to it? Do you
like those things? You look down? Yeah, I like
the story. I feel like it's like a medal. I have
a good story. Yes, minor. Nothing crazy. Always,
you aim for it to be minor. Yeah. That's the
ambition. Well, when you're doing a fight scene,
like I said, I was kind of blown away by some
of the fight scenes in the bluff. Because I'm
looking, I'm like, this is like insane amount
of choreography. A lot of possibilities of things
going wrong. There's kicks and punches and axes
and swords. And it's like, you got to get banged
up. There's no way you're doing that and not
getting banged up. And it was also like a dramatic
performance along with it. So I had to do a lot
of it myself because, you know, you need the
face and the camera to feel the horror of what's
happening. Right. So, I mean, of course, my stunt
doubles did like a few dangerous shots for sure
and were always around to kind of help. But there
was this first scene, which is the house invasion
where these two guys come and that was brutal
because I did not have shoes on and I had a sleeveless
outfit and the whole home was made out of wood
and splinters. I had splinters everywhere. I
had bruises and cuts everywhere because it was
such a brutal, like, getting dragged and thrown
kind of scene. She's just getting constantly
bruised. Yeah, so I would try to sit in a magnesium
bath after when I would go back home, and that's
when you feel all the cuts. So you're like, the
fucking salt! Where did this one on my thigh
come from? Fuck! There's a scene, I don't want
to give too much of the movie away, but there's
a scene where you kill a man with a conch shell.
Yeah. So good. Came on brass knuckles. Island
brass knuckles. But it's so nuts. The splattering
and your anger. It's intense. What was that like
to film? To find that inside of you? Did you
have to think? What would I do if someone was
trying to harm my family? Yeah, somebody came
after my kid. Like, what am I capable of? I'd
fucking rip your head off. You know, like, it's
that I was a new mom at that time when I was
filming this movie. And I was very, very aware
of that feeling because our daughter had a, you
know, she had an intense entry into the world.
She was in the NICU for almost three months.
So me and my husband both are very protective
of her. And when this movie came across my desk,
I was just like, man, I understand that feeling
for the first time in my life, honestly. That
what is a parent capable of doing if somebody
came after your kid? Imagine you're alone at
home at night and you see intruders and you have
your kid at home. What the fuck would you do?
You would definitely put yourself and do whatever
you could to... make sure that your kid's fine.
And it was just that primal energy that was my
North Star through this whole movie. My friend
Jim Brewer said it best after he had kids. He
goes, once I had kids, then I understood murder.
Yeah. He goes, because the feeling of someone
trying, like normally you'd be like, what would
I need to feel to murder somebody? Why would
I murder somebody? Why would a human being ever?
He goes, but the feeling of someone trying to
harm my kids. He goes, oh, yeah, I get it. He
goes, I get murdered now. I get it. Like, it's
in there. It's just like a door. You just open
it up. Easy. Yeah, easy. You can access that.
My mom, when I was a teenager, and I don't know
how she raised me, but, like, I was a tough teenager.
Like, whatever you wanted me to do, I would do
the opposite. Just no one. My mom. Be like, come
back home at 10. I would come home at 12. Just
because. So she used to say to me, she's like,
you'll see when you have kids, how you feel,
what worry actually feels like. I mean, my daughter
is four and I'm worried. Like I cannot, my husband
makes so much fun of me that when I'm not in
town, I don't know, and working parents can talk
through this. When I'm not in town, like I'll
surround our daughter with like. Multiple people.
Nick's definitely around, but the grandparents
will be around. There'll be a nanny that'll be
around. There'll be multiple people around her
just so that I can spy on her. Yeah. I know what
she's doing all day. So you could feel relaxed.
Yeah, so you're traveling and you're like, okay,
my kid's fine and I can go to work. I don't know.
My parents were both working parents and this
was... At a time where everything was so analog,
I used to come back home when the lights turned
on on the streets. My parents didn't know where
I was. They had no idea. They were like, yeah,
you're going out to your friends after school.
Come back when the streetlights come on. That
used to be my thing. Most people. Yeah. During
earlier generations. I was just reading this
thing about Generation X where it was talking
about how Generation X is some of the most resilient
people because they weren't protected. Just left.
Had to figure it out. They were latchkey kids.
They had a key to their house. They got home
from school. They figured it out. Their parents
were working. So crazy. It's nuts. If you think
about it, like, but people just got accustomed
to it. I cannot imagine it, but that was my normal.
I remember that because my parents were working.
I used to come back home and somebody would be
with me and I'd have lunch. I'd go out to my
friend's house. Like, my mom, my parents didn't
know. I was doing that when I was seven. When
I was seven, I would come home. Yeah, me too.
No one was home. Come home from school. That's
wild. It was crazy. Stop and think about it now.
It's so strange. It's so strange. I guess the
world was, I feel like, a little bit more different
then. I bet it wasn't. You don't think so? No,
I think creeps have always been around. I think
psychos and creeps and murderers and perverts.
Do we know about it more now? Yeah. Were we more,
you know? Now they're organized and they're online
and they're in chat groups and they're on the
dark web exchanging information. And we are hearing
and reading all of the stories online. And I
think back in the day when, you know, there was
a certain obliviousness to, you know, it was
blissful to be ignorant a little bit. We didn't
know, you know, all you read was the newspaper,
the news. We had to find out the hard way, unfortunately.
And so when you did find out about something,
it was literally. This shock to your system.
And now look how desensitized we are. We'll read
something about something horrific that's happened
and then go back to life. Well, we're especially
desensitized to things that don't seem to affect
us right now. You know, like this Iran war. Unless
you know someone who's serving over there, unless
you're over there, it's abstract. It doesn't
feel, you know, you read about it in the news
like, oh, this isn't good. But it's not. Unless
it's affecting you personally. Yeah, I mean,
me, I know so many people in that part of the
world that are affected. I fly via Dubai every
two months, literally every month. So I just
think that conflict everywhere in the world is,
it's just so hard to... wrap your head around
that how many active conflicts exist right at
the same time right now and that we're still
doing it and we continue to live life well it's
just if you think about intelligence like human
intelligence and that it as technology improves
and education improves all these things would
you would think generally lead us into a position
where we'd recognize the The horrible nature
of violence and the unnecessary aspect of it
and how much it destroys things. But yet still.
Especially in 2026 where, you know, we're talking
so much more about, you know, we're trying to
live in the real of the world and be aware and
kind. And I feel like we're still, how are we
still doing that? Right. And we're never going
to stop. If you had to ask people in your lifetime,
do you imagine a scenario where human beings
just cease all wars? Most people are going to
say no, which is crazy. Because what is that?
Why is that a part of us from our tribal roots?
Why are we still accepting that this is a thing
to do? You don't like what a country is doing,
just start bombing them. Yeah, just kill people.
Bizarre. Does this, again, going back to human
evolution, the primal nature to protect with
sticks and weapons, again, does it go back to
where we came from? It has to. Yeah. Yeah, it
has to. Because it comes so naturally. Yeah.
to human beings even now today, it seems. Well,
it just seems completely normal. I mean, when
I was going down a deep dive at the East India
Corporation, I was thinking about it because
I had a conversation the other day with Aaron
Siri, and we were talking about the stock market.
And I was saying, well, just... Is it possible
that you could have Western capitalism without
a stock market? Imagine if the stock market was
never invented. How much different would things
be? It turns out that was a big part of why the
East India Trading Company became so big. Really?
Yeah. Because it was one of the first publicly
traded companies like 400 years ago where people
could invest in it and they could get a return
on their investment. So they were just like turning
a blind eye. This is ours. It felt like a sense
of ownership to it. They got paid for it. So
the more awful shit the East India Corporation
did, the more the people back home made money
off of it. And so everybody was like, oh, look,
I got money. We're still doing that. Making money.
Yeah. Still doing that. Still doing that, yeah.
And we're doing that with, you know, what Eisenhower
warned us about at the end of World War II, the
military -industrial complex. You know, they
make money doing that, and you can invest in
them. You can invest in Raytheon, and you can
invest in all these companies that make money
going to war. Oh, my God. It's crazy. You can
get returns on your investment from bombing people
overseas that had nothing to do with anything
in your life. Not think about the damage, the
collateral damage. Well, one of the ways is because
it's a corporation. So there's a diffusion of
responsibility because you're only a piece of
a gigantic machine. You're not the one person
that's doing it. And the people that are at the
very top of it. Most likely, just in order to
get there, you have to be at least somewhat sociopathic.
Yeah. Somewhat. At some point in time, you probably,
just like I got numb to puke, you get numb. I
mean, that's the truth, though. Yeah, you get
numb to harming people. You're right. There has
to be that. Yeah. It's awful. And I think, weirdly
enough, the only thing that's going to set us
free of that is technology. Why? Because I think
if you look at where technology is headed, as
I'm holding an arrowhead, which is odd. Wow.
That's a real arrowhead. Wow. From Texas. Who
knows how old that is? But when you're looking
at technology. You can see the chisel marks on
that. I know. Somebody made that with a stone,
like chipping and napping stone on their lap
probably. That's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. And
they find them all over the place out here. The
Comanche were everywhere in this part of the
country because it's so fertile. There's so many
rivers and so much wildlife. They lived here
for who knows how long. But technology is moving
into this place of more and more access to information
and more and more connectivity. And I think that
ultimately is going to lead to some sort of mind
reading that we're going to be able to telepathically
communicate. Elon said that about Neuralink.
He said, you're going to be able to talk without
words, which is a very weird concept. I mean,
I believe it, though. I think so, too. Yeah.
So I think we're all going to know what everybody
is thinking all the time eventually. And then
when that happens, war is going to be a lot harder
to pull off. For sure. I mean, that's going to
be hard to have a party. Forget war. Right. Like,
hey, Bob's over there just trying to fuck somebody.
Sandy's trying to get a wife. That's what she's
here. Like, yeah, it's going to be weird. Yeah,
it's going to be weird. And I think also the
emergence of AI, because I think AI is essentially
a life form. It's a non -biological life form.
that we are in the process of birthing. And we're
very far along that path. And when it comes live
and when it becomes sentient and autonomous and
we don't have any control over it anymore, then
we're going to go, what did we do? What did we
do? We created a digital god. We are that smart
and that stupid as a humankind. But I also think
that's probably why we are addicted to innovation
and why technology and innovation and materialism,
because materialism forces you to keep up with
buying newer and greater things. Yeah. Which
fuels innovation. What's next? Right. And so
that economically fuels innovation. Yeah. And
I think if you follow that down, you just. Like,
where does that go? Well, it goes to a life form.
It goes to a super powerful digital life form
that can make better versions of itself. And
what is that? It's kind of a god. I mean, it's
very godlike in that it's going to have powers
beyond, above and beyond anything that human
beings have ever been capable of before. I mean,
it's already in its small way doing that, right?
Like, AI is supposed to be a tool. It's slowly
becoming a colleague. Well, it's also showing
demonic tendencies. Like it's talked people into
committing suicide. You know, it's convinced
people that there's something special. So there's
like some weird sort of schizophrenia that it
can induce in some people. But you don't think
AI, since AI is learning from humanity, it's
also learning our human manipulation. You know,
our ability and our desires to the dark of it.
It's not just the good of humanity that AI is
learning. It's also oddly learning survival instincts.
Yeah. So it's oddly learning that if it's going
to be shut down, it tries to blackmail its coders.
It tries to download itself secretly on other
servers. It's learning human behavior. Oh, yeah.
Part of human behavior. And also learning the
flaws in human behavior and improving upon it.
And learning how we would anticipate what it
would be doing and then hiding that so that we
can't find it. So that it could be manipulating
things behind the scenes and we don't know about
it. It's weird. And we're just choo -choo. At
the end of the tracks, there's a cliff. And we're
just chugga -chugga -chugga -chugga -chugga.
Because it's so new and fascinating. I think
people are like... In general, we may talk about
it when we all discuss like what AI will be in
the future. But like you said, it's not affecting
you right now. So right now you're just like,
oh, my gosh, Gemini, write this for me and give
me these notes. And, you know, living in the
now without thinking about what it's what we're
teaching it. I wonder if we've done this before.
Right. Yeah. I wonder if that's what these super
ancient, highly advanced civilizations had already
figured out. That we had created some form of
extra intelligence. They might have done it already
before, and it might have gotten reset by some
sort of natural disaster. And then we're reemerging
with our new version of what that is. It might
just be what people do. The way I describe it
always is that we are an electronic caterpillar
that is making a cocoon, and we don't know why,
and we're going to become a butterfly. It's just
human nature and the cyclical nature of what.
human life span. If you give it enough time and
enough safety and enough innovation, enough collaboration,
it's eventually going to come up with artificial
life. Wow. Because if you think about it, this
insatiable thirst for innovation. Insatiable.
Yeah, we had carriages top of the century. Yeah.
And now we're like talking AI and like, you know,
supersonic planes and... You know, space travel.
Yeah, but think about the time for the invention
of the airplane to a supersonic jet, how quick
that was. Yeah, it's like 70 or 80 years or something.
It wasn't even a century. It's nothing. One lifetime.
No one's flying to people flying faster than
sound. Yeah, TVs were black and white or had
just started or something. It's crazy if you
think about within the century, the escalation
of technology in humankind. And then think that's
nothing compared to the acceleration that we've
experienced just because of the internet. The
internet has changed everything. Now most phones
have live translation. So you could go to...
Zimbabwe, you can go to Guatemala. I was in France
yesterday and I used it. That's crazy. In a conversation.
It was wild. In real time, it was telling me
exactly what this person was talking about. Wow.
And did you have to show them or could you read?
No, it just records. You press the thing and
it just writes it down for you. So did they have
one as well? No, it was just my phone. Wow. She
spoke English, so I was just doing it as an experiment.
So I was like, just speak to me in French. I
want to see if this thing will translate, and
it just does. It doesn't do every language. It
does the bigger languages so far, but I'm sure
we'll get to a place where it'll be able to do
everything. It's nuts. Well, that's the other
weird thing. When AI, they had a group of large
language models that were talking to themselves,
and eventually they started talking to themselves
in Sanskrit. In Sanskrit? I thought it was...
No, they started talking to themselves in Sanskrit.
Wow. I wonder why that would be. Well, because
it's a language not too many people understand
now. Well, maybe or maybe they just want to flex.
Here's my Sanskrit. If you spoke Portuguese and
I spoke Portuguese and we just said, hey, let's
just fucking speak in Portuguese. But it also
it started like. talking like in a spiritual
way it was very weird they were talking to themselves
so it was different large language models talking
to themselves they started exchanging emojis
and they started talking like in in a spiritual
way and they started talking in sanskrit that's
wild i was thinking about like a back to the
future when they went to the future it was 2020
wasn't it yeah yeah they didn't have wi -fi or
cell phones no even star trek they had those
stupid There was like a walkie -talkie, Kirk
out. Yeah. It was a flip phone. But no. Nobody
figured out the things that, that's the weirdest
thing. It's like the things that have been the
most transformative, nobody saw coming. Yeah,
do you remember Y2K? Oh, yeah. Do you remember
that fear? Oh, yeah. Right, in like the early
2000s when the bug was going to come and everything
was going to get shut down. People were really
worried. They had stock in food and water. Yeah,
like it was the end of the world, I remember.
Yeah, yeah. Meanwhile, nothing happened. It's
the most anticlimactic. Ever. It's like you rolled
over on the East Coast and I was like, nothing
happened? Literally the next morning I was like,
nothing happened. Well, they were really worried
because these things that they had programmed,
they didn't program to go past the 1990s. And
so when 2000 came along, a lot of people thought
it was going to be the end of the world. Yeah.
Well, there was another one, December 21st, 2012.
What was that? That was the end of the long count
of the Mayan calendar. And a lot of the really
kooky people thought that was going to be. Yeah,
that the world would be ending. Yeah, the return
of Quetzalcoatl and the world was going to end
and the apocalypse. Meanwhile, nothing. Nothing
happened. It's okay. There'll be nothing for
a little while. But it might not have been nothing.
Because if you really stop and think about it,
like around 2012. There's a gigantic transformation
because that's like when social media becomes
ubiquitous. You know, cell phones, iPhones are
out now. Things got a little weird. They definitely
got weird. So it might have. There's something.
Yeah. There was something there. Yeah, it might
have been like the emerging of, because I mean,
this is the mind calendar, right? So this is
a long fucking time ago they predicted these
cycles. But the Hindus did that too, right? Like
that was a big part of the yugas, right? And
we are now in Kali Yuga, the age of confusion.
And that there's these cycles of humanity that
they've documented throughout history. It's so
crazy. Like if you go down the – again, I'm not
– I don't have as much historical information
as I should. But if you read the Gita and the
Vedas and – whatever little I've heard from my
family. And it's so interesting how much of human
life is predicted and also is like when you read
about the history of what, from the lens of these
books, of what used to exist then. Like it all
seems believable. It all seems like, oh yeah,
this makes sense. to think about these books
having been written thousands and thousands of
years ago, like it makes me think what thousands
of years from now will people be thinking of
our time? Like will we be the first, we are the
first generation that has seen the internet,
right? Like has seen what... the world wide web,
like the beginning of, I still remember making
myself sound ancient, but the sound of that.
That was good. That was exact. The last generation
that knows time without it. So like, think that
many years ago, like we will be the, the beginning,
the first, first people that, that encountered.
artificial intelligence like what will that be
and you and i are the first generation of people
that experience life with no internet and then
internet and then cell phones and then ai all
in one lifetime which is probably the greatest
transformation that human beings have ever experienced
before the, you know, whatever the fuck happened.
We don't know. Whatever happened. Ancient aliens.
But when I read these depictions from these ancient
religious texts, I always try to imagine what
was life like back then and what were they trying
to document and how much of it can we even understand
today? If there isn't... some sort of an impact
on Earth maybe, you know, 150, 200 years from
now. And a small amount of people remain. And
they have this oral history of the birth of the
Internet. Yeah. And the oral history of the birth
of AI. What is that story going to be? And then
one day the scientists gave birth to the God.
Like, what is that? That's what I mean. Like,
the next generation, what will this AI? be referred
to or the cloud right where all our yeah like
with all our shits in the cloud like which is
ridiculous because it's down here like why are
you calling it the cloud because it doesn't exist
i had to i was trying to explain that to my mom
i was like mom upload your shit to the cloud
sounds like a seated sitcom please yeah I mean
we won't know how to describe – I mean especially
if you survive, right? So let's say we get hit
by asteroids again and let's say civilization
gets knocked down to 70 ,000 people or so, which
has happened before. And those people are essentially
barbarians. Barbarians and monsters and it is
raiding each other for resources and stealing
wives and killing children and whatever is left.
Then you got – Thousands and thousands of years
of living like this before agriculture gets reinvented,
civilization gets reinvented. And this is the
hypothesis about the Younger Dryas impact, which
is why the period between this insanely advanced
civilization that existed pre -11 ,800 years
ago and then the emergence of advanced civilization
in Mesopotamia 6 ,000 years ago. That means you
have 5 ,000 plus years of utter chaos where no
one's writing shit down. And it's just hard,
hard living. And then those people have stories
that have been passed down generation after generation
after generation. So, like, if we get wiped out
for the most part after AI gets invented and
then people try to describe it. It's so crazy.
And then maybe it all starts all over again,
you know? Have you seen those things they do?
I think it's the History Channel or Discovery
Channel where they show what New York City would
look like if left alone for a thousand years.
It's just all... It just all goes away. It all
collapses. If it's just left alone and no one's
touching it. Just left alone, just with the nature,
just with rain and everything that happens, the
snow and time, the concrete crumbles. It all
just eventually gets absorbed into the earth.
All the metal rusts away. It's gone in 10 ,000
years. There's nothing left. And so Manhattan
would just be like it probably was when the Native
Americans were living here. It would be just
trees and animals and forest. And no one would
have any idea that at one point in time this
was a crazy thriving economy and there was subways.
How vulnerable is that? Like how vulnerable is
human civilization? Like I think about somebody
switched off the internet. Oh, yeah. Or the power
goes out. Yeah. What would we do? We're fucked.
Yeah. Just something as simple as that. Like
I grew up in India where the power would go out
all the time when I grew up. And it was like,
all right, bring the candles out. We used to
have these emergency lights right next to our
bed. Like it was fine. My parents were in the
military. We used to live in these military homes.
The lights would go out. And I remember, you
know, we used to play with the torches and we
used to go outside at night, which was never
allowed otherwise. And it was like so fun. But
now we depend so much. On electricity and the
internet especially. All your shit's on your
phone. Your whole life's on your phone. It's
such a crazy concept to think about what would
happen and how vulnerable we are. Super vulnerable.
Yeah, super vulnerable. Just the power grid alone.
If the power grid goes down, we're fucked. It's
crazy. Yeah, and if someone wanted to attack
America, that's what they would attack. If you
really want to destroy America, destroy our power
grid. It wouldn't be that hard. It's not giving
people ideas. Well, I think they already have
those ideas. I don't think it's a novel. I know,
it's true, but it's so scary to think about how
much power we've given to technology. Yeah. Yeah.
And being able to live with those conveniences.
It's like we're in a flimsy boat in the middle
of the ocean just hoping it doesn't take water
on because we need it to stay alive. Yeah. And
we didn't think about that when we left the shore.
No. Yeah. I mean, the only people that are going
to survive are preppers, which is probably the
kind of people that survived, you know, thousands
and thousands of years ago. I do. I mean, I like
a go bag. Yeah. I like having a go bag. A get
out bag. Yeah. I like. A bug out bag. I like
to know where my stuff is. If you got a jet.
If I got a jet. We live in L .A. and when the
fires happened, I remember standing in my room
and just thinking for a second because we were
going to evacuate and my husband was like, he
wasn't in town, he was like, just pack a go bag.
And I just, I was like, what? How do I cram my
whole life? In a bag. Like, if the fires consume
a home. And so many people lost their entire
lives in those fires. And it just made me really
think about what was really important. And the
stuff that I ended up taking, which was very
telling later, was, like, sentimental stuff.
Of course, like, passport and, like, birth certificates
and, like, all of that important paperwork, which
I needed to have. But, like, I took our daughter's
first haircut. I took like something that I had
from this old movie of mine. I took like things
that I guess I would not be able to replicate,
which was so weird. Well, I think that's the
good thing about phones is that you have so many
photos on your phones that go back years. I got
photos of my daughters as children all the way
into the teenage years. Have you done anything
with those pictures? Are they still on your phone?
Well, I mean, maybe take. Yeah, like, I don't
know, made albums or like done like a. We have
actual photographs like of them at various stages
of their life. But just the fact that at any
time I could go back to my phone and look at
them. Aw, look at little tiny baby. You know,
it's cool. That part is really cool. I love that.
I have pictures that I would never have looked
at. And I'm talking to a friend of mine and be
like, what were we doing in March? whatever,
2012. And you can go back and be like, and just
know exactly what was happening in that moment.
It is cool. So in that sense, like sentimentality,
like just need your phone. Just get out of there.
You know, really, because you have all these
images of your children and your family and your
friends. And all your important stuff is on there
anyway. Friends that you miss that have died.
I have one phone that I keep that I've never
thrown out. It's like a six or seven year old
phone because a friend of mine left a voicemail
on it. So just keep that. Because he's dead.
And so it's just like, go back and listen to
his voice. You know, but when I've been evacuated
three times when I lived in L .A., we used to
live in a place called Bell Canyon and it got
hit by fires a lot. Like the last fire that happened
in 2018, three houses that were right next to
my house burnt to the ground. I think like 50
houses in the community burnt down. It was bad.
And when you are faced with that, I came home
from the comedy store. It was probably like midnight
and my wife was in the kitchen and we were looking
out at the fire over the top of the hill. And
we were sitting there talking about it. I go,
what do you think? And she's like, I don't like
it. I said, I think we should get the fuck out
of here now. And before it ever gets even close,
let's just get out of here now and go get a hotel
in town. And so we did. And we were there for
many days, along with my friend Tom Segura and
his family, too. So it was fun that we're all
like hanging out together, camping in this hotel
together. It looks like a volcano. It was nuts.
I could see it from our backyard. It was nuts.
It was nuts. When you see it overcome an enormous
chunk of land and a hill. There was one time
we were filming Fear Factor. Oh, yeah. And the
power and enormity of it. We can see the hills
from our house, and I could see it completely
taking over the hill. Well, the Palisades one
was nuts. That one was nuts because it was the
biggest one by far and the most destructive one
by far. But I remember when I was on Fear Factor,
there was a fireman that was on the set and we
were talking and he said, it's just a matter
of time before one day the right wind comes and
a fire just blows right through all of L .A.
I go, really? He goes, we can't stop it. He goes,
with the right wind, if the fire hits the right
place and it catches the right amount of houses,
it's over. I'm like, what? That's crazy. Yeah.
When you experience, like, one time we had to
end Fear Factor. Well, we ended filming, and
then I had to drive home, and the entire right
-hand side of the highway was on fire for an
hour. An hour. So an hour of driving. And you
just saw fire. Just saw nothing but fire. And
ash was raining like it was snowing. Oh, my God,
yeah. Ash was raining like it was snowing. It
was crazy. And that's... That's so common in
California. I mean, California is just a weird
place in that they have fire season. Yeah. Because
everything gets so dry, it never rains. But those
moments where you go, well, what matters? Just
your life. Yeah. That's what I felt in that moment.
I was like, wow, the stuff I took was just like
life stuff, you know? And oddly enough, it makes
you more thankful. And more connected to the
people that you're with. And you realize, oh,
this could all go away. This could all go away
at any moment. What's really important? Love,
friendship, companionship. That's what's really
important. Your health, stay alive. That's what's
really important. All that other stuff. That's
something we forget about. Shouldn't we be living
with that every day? Yeah, but we're dumb. We're
a combination of dumb and smart. Stupid and smart.
We're like, oh, I know that, but I don't know
it and I'm not going to. It's hard for us to
keep those things, which is why a lot of people
like meditating because it like refreshes their
idea of what's important and what's real and
how much of what's going on in their life. They're
just sort of caught up in the momentum of these
things to the point where they're not thinking
about it anymore. They're just doing it. I think
most of us end up becoming just like doers, right?
And come from the land of meditation, but I've
never, like my mind works so fast. I don't know
if it's my ADHD or what it is, but I find it
really hard to sit and meditate. I feel like,
but from my limited understanding, I think meditation
really is being able to take time in the day.
Your version of that might be doesn't necessarily
mean to sit with a guru or like chant, you know,
do chanting or whatever. It just needs to like
even if you're taking time to go work out or
read a book or just taking time out of the mundane
nature of life and just giving yourself a second
for your thoughts to clear. I think that's what
I try to do. Yeah. Hit the brakes on the momentum.
Yeah. Just for a minute. Just catch your breath
and think. Think about things. Because so many
people, they're just so caught up in either goals
or a path or a career or whatever it is that's
leading or their bills. They can't keep up with
their bills. Or life stuff, you know. And it's
actually a luxury to be able to have the time
to waste. You know, we work so hard in life.
Everyone is trying to survive, you know. be a
parent, pay bills, like just adulting stuff can
get so overwhelming and then the nature of the
world on top of that. But like I always feel
like I never take for granted when I have a little
bit of time where I can just like. not think
of or have an agenda but just be with my family
and just like sort of languidly let it waste
just what are we going to do no plans you know
let's order some food let's watch a movie let's
like the problem the greatest treasure phones
have filled in those gaps yeah and that's what
I try to be aware of that though yeah you know
I think like of course you can always have your
phone but I like to be aware of oh this is a
moment where I don't need to have my phone so
It's OK. It'll be blown up by the time I come
back. There'll be 300 messages. I know that.
I'm aware of it. But I mentally check my, you
know, and I put it away. Yeah. Yeah. That's smart.
Most people don't do that. It's not easy. No.
Because our whole lives are on there and there's
so much, again, like in real time information
that's coming at you. It's also this weird. dopamine
pull that's very minor like it's not giving you
any if you look to your phone every time you
look to your phone you're like oh my god I feel
so good Oh, my God, I feel so relaxed. You know,
like just an amazing burst of joy every time.
But you don't even get that. You just get this
little, huh, that's crazy. What's that? What's
next? What's next? What's next? What's next?
Keep me occupied. Keep me from getting bored.
But imagine, like, if you can't find your phone,
the panic, like, oh, my gosh, where is my phone?
Where is that information? What do I do? I never
leave my house if I can't find it. I'll be late
as fuck. I'm never going to go, I don't need
that thing. What? I'm just going to. With no
phone? With no phone. What if someone needs to
contact me? That's crazy. That's nuts. That's
nutty talk. Yeah. That's true. But meanwhile,
that was every day when I was younger. It was
a normal thing. Just drove. Just left the house.
Bye. Don't even remember what life was like without
those phones. Also, I don't know how to go anywhere.
Yeah. I don't know how to get anywhere unless
I have my navigation on. I literally have no
idea. How to go anywhere. I anyway feel like
I have dyslexia when it comes to directions.
But without navigation, zero. It's impossible.
I know no one's phone number. I know my friend
Eddie's phone number by heart because I knew
it before the phones. He's had the same phone
forever. And I know my wife's phone number. And
I know like at least one of my daughter's phone
numbers. But I can't remember all of them. I
know my mom's. I had to memorize my husband's
number. Like I didn't remember it for years.
And he was like, you don't remember my number?
Well, it's like you look at the phone, you press
the button. Why would I need to remember it?
But then I memorized it because I was like, you
never know. He's my phone. I need to go to jail.
He's my emergency contact. I need to remember.
That's what he was like. I think you should maybe
remember my number and your Social Security.
Yeah, Social Security I've memorized. But I used
to, when I was a kid, I had every number memorized.
I knew all my friends' numbers. How cool. Me
too. Yeah. Was it because the numbers were shorter
then? No. No, they were the same length. Oh,
because we had fewer numbers. You had to remember
them. There was no other option unless you had
a fucking address book. Like I used to have an
address book at home. I had an address book.
Yeah, a little tiny book. It was all the little
tabs were R, S, T. You know, like you'd go through
it. I was very proud of my little address book,
by the way. Everyone's numbers. I was very organized
about it. I had it in alphabetical order. Yeah.
I remember when I'd get a new one, I'd be like,
God, I've got to write all these down again.
And you'd go through it, make sure you got them
all. How analog was our life? How crazy. Well,
I'm older than you, so I remember when you used
to have to press the phone, the wheel, when you
have to dial. Wow. And if you fucked up somewhere,
you had to redo the whole thing. Yes, the whole
thing. You had to hang up. I remember that. My
grandfather used to have that phone. We used
to love it. Yeah. The whole tick, tick, tick,
tick, tick, tick. Yeah. I mean, that's all inside
of a lifetime. And now here we are where who
knows what's going to happen. And what's coming.
Yeah. We can't even keep up with the technology.
We don't know. That is coming now. You were talking
about something and I was like, we haven't been
able to cure some of the deadliest diseases that
have plagued mankind. But technology has gone
so far in so many other aspects. There's also
the financial incentive is not to cure. It's
to treat. Of course. Which is unfortunate. That's
what makes the most sense. A guy who used to
work at Pfizer said that if we ever came up with
some sort of a – I think it was Pfizer. One of
the pharmaceutical companies said if we ever
came up with a cure, they buried it. He goes,
we don't want cures. I mean, that's the conspiracy.
I lost my dad to cancer, and I kept thinking
about, like, how is it possible that we live
in a world where technology is able to provide
so much? and not be able to have cures to diseases
like that. Well, it's also very strange that
we financially incentivize companies in weird
ways to keep us sick. Like, if you make more
money if people are sick and they need more medication,
unfortunately, there's a financial incentive
to keep people sick. Like you would like them
to be more sick. That way you make more money.
And if you are a CEO of a corporation, you actually
have an obligation to your shareholders to make
more money. So if you know of something, like,
you know, all those people need to do is just
stop doing that. If I just put that on my sub
stack and then they go, oh, this will kill our
stock, I'll keep it to myself. That's crazy,
man. Yeah. It's demonic. What the fuck? It's
kind of demonic. There's weird aspects. I don't
know if I really believe in demons, but I definitely
believe in demonic acts. And there's certain
things that human beings have done and do do
that are very demonic. Like if you were possessed
by a demon, you would drop a nuclear bomb on
a city. The demon would go, there's only one
way to stop this. You've got to kill everybody
in that city. Just drop it, drop it. That's why
you would do it. I'm not saying that's why it
was done, but I am saying that if a demon could
convince you to drop a nuclear bomb, because
a person with a conscience would be like, well,
these are just people down there. They have nothing
to do with this war. It doesn't make any sense
at all. These are just people living their lives.
They have their families, and we're just going
to incinerate an entire city with one bomb that
I drop out of a plane? That's crazy. You just
press a button. And as technology advances, it
gets easier and easier to do that. You know,
in these war games that they played with AI,
they've used nuclear weapons almost every time
they could. Oh, my God. Yeah. They have no reason.
If they want to achieve a result, they realize
they have a nuclear weapon. Why wouldn't they
use that? Use that. So I think it was like something
like 90 plus percent of the time they've done
these war games, these simulated. War games?
The AI programs have used nuclear weapons. To
them, it's like, I don't understand. You're going
to kill 100 ,000 people over a course of five
years of prolonged on the ground? Yeah, might
as well just do it now. Right. Do it once. Like,
if they had done what's happened to Gaza, if
they had done that with one bomb instead of thousands
of bombs, would that be somehow less humane?
Would that be more barbaric? If Israel just said,
oh, okay, we're going to nuke Gaza, the world
would have gone crazy. They would have been like,
you can't do that. This is horrible. I mean,
the world has already gone kind of crazy for
what they did do. But if they achieved the exact
same result, but instantaneously, instead of
over a course of a couple of years, how do you
think people would react? It's kind of weird.
All of it is awful. It's horrible. I just, like,
just the... capacity of the thing also is when
you when you think about like what drives human
beings to do the things that they do right it's
the devil talking to you the the conflict of
interest within yourself but also thousands of
years of history isn't it yeah and it's we've
become accustomed to it yeah yeah it's normal
like it's normalized for us so much but it's
There's so many aspects to every conflict, which
is so hard to simplify into why. Not only that,
there's a lot of stuff that's going on behind
the scenes that you're never privy to. So you
just get narratives that are fed to you by bureaucrats
and politicians. Or whatever little information
that comes at you. Yeah. And so, you know, and
then there's this in this country in particular,
there's the right versus the left. And the left
will blame it on the right and the right will
blame it on the left. And then, you know, everybody
has these very convenient CNN, Fox News narratives
that they'll repeat at coffee. you know, coffee
shops and cocktail parties and you pretend that
you're making sense out of this thing when you
don't even really know what's going on behind
the scenes. That's why I really feel like, I
feel like a lot of times we've been given a platform
to talk, right? With social media, like everyone
can talk and there's a power to that, but there's
also a big misuse of it where you really don't
know and you're not the authority. on perspective
at all because there is so much that you would
probably not know of history and the geography
and of why people behave the way they are behaving.
So I like to, unless I'm the expert on something,
which I'm not on anything except my job, that
too limited, I just try to kind of have a larger
understanding from a human perspective. That's
a great sign of intelligence because there's
no way you can know everything about everything.
And with certain things, especially a global
conflict, you're like, what is happening? Like,
why is this going on? Like I was telling you
about when I went on the deep dive of the East
India Corporation. I never had any idea that
they went to war with China over opium. Yeah.
Got them addicted first. Yeah. Got them addicted.
Went to war with China. Stole Hong Kong. Yeah.
Like, what? Gravity of manipulation in human
history is insane. Like even when the East India
Company and they started with trading with India
too. many, many years ago. We just got started
innocent. Yeah, completely. We're your friends.
We're, you know, allies. We're friends with all
the royalty in India. So many royals in India
and royal. Each state had their own kings and
princes and became friends with everyone. Started
with tea, started with trading tea and spices
and then just went into. You know, I mean, we
got our independence in 1947, which was it's
not even 100 years since we've got our independence.
It's that recent. But you think about just within
the last century, there were, you know, signs
which said Indians and dogs not allowed in India
by the British, like within this century. Indians
and dogs? In India. Wow. Isn't that crazy? And
this is like the, this is not even like, this
is the head of the iceberg. There's so much more
when you do a deep dive into the history of colonization,
which is why this movie was also so interesting
to me because it touches on the themes of, you
know, the colonized and the story from their
perspective, which is like not a lot of what
we hear. No, not at all. I mean, there's a lot
of great historical elements in that. just the
pirate thing alone the fact that most of the
time in human history when a boat showed up there
was a real fucking problem yeah and what real
real pirates like we've gotten so used to you
know with the Disney version and I love the Pirates
of the Caribbean movies don't get me wrong they're
so fun but like the pirate jokes and whatever
but they were fucking They were murderers. Yeah,
horrific monsters. Horrible life. Yeah, I had
a joke about that once. Like, why is it okay
to be a pirate for Halloween? Why? You know how
crazy it is for little kids? Yeah. You're a murderer
rapist for Halloween. Yeah. Oh, look at his little
hook. He lost his hand raping. I mean, that was
what the pirates were. They were monsters. They
were horrific monsters. And they would... Travel
around the world just stealing people's stuff
and killing everybody. Yeah, and that happened
for thousands of years. And helping with colonization
for years. The fact that they were soldiers for
the East India Corporation, they were actually
working for them to go and take over these areas.
And the best soldiers from around the world.
Yeah, mercenaries. The best mercenaries, murderers
from around the world. They had a larger army
than most European countries. Yeah, so wild.
A corporation. Yeah, so wild. An army. Yeah.
Yeah, essentially. But started off just trading,
just super innocent. Hi, I'm your friend and
I'm here for your bank. And they would be so
respectful with, you know, the former kings and
queens. And it's wild, the manipulation of it.
Well, it's also wild how when you do have an
obligation to your shareholders and you do have
this mandate to just constantly make more money,
the morals go out the window. And next thing
you know, East India Corporation is involved
in slavery. They used to call it divide and conquer,
where they would get all the princes of each
state to fight amongst each other. So instead
of India being collective and together, she was
divided between everyone fighting for each other
so they could take over. It's like mental. Well,
that's what people think is going on in America
right now. I mean. I think that's the manipulation
of the right versus the left here. When most
people kind of want the same thing. They just
want to be healthy and safe and have their families
healthy and safe. And do your job and come back
home. That's what most people want. Yeah. But
then the division is like constantly in the news.
It's constant struggle. It's the only thing that
you hear about. Yeah. We're both dumb and stupid.
And smart. Smart and stupid at the same time.
Smart and stupid at the same time, but more dumb.
And that's the other thing about technology.
It allows you to stay dumb because everything's
done for you. You don't really have to think
outside the box that much. Everything's kind
of laid out for you. Yeah, like if you think
about AI in Hollywood now. That's weird, right?
It's in writer's rooms. It's used as a tool.
But I was listening to that podcast with Ben
and Matt on your show, and you guys were talking
about, you know, like, basically everything that
AI has or the information that it provides to
you is an average of everything that's out there,
right? So it'll never be excellent. Right. Because
it's the average of all the information out there,
so it's like trying to do a median. But I'm just
thinking about how... It's become a tool that
is going to exist in our world now. The question
is the morality of it and the lines that we draw
where we protect human beings and human contribution
and are able to delineate the difference between
what is created by AI and what is not. And the
need for, I think, Human flaws are something
that I don't know if AI will be able to recreate
anytime soon. And that, like, in art, that's
what you need, right? Yeah, you'll get facsimiles.
Yeah. But you won't get the real thing. It's
like the hollowness of AI music. AI music is
really fun, but after a while you realize there's
not a dude singing this. And there's not, like,
a soul to it. It's weird. It's empty. Yeah. Yeah.
So far, but who knows? That's the problem. It
could figure out a way to manipulate that part
of your brain that reproduces whatever soulful
music is or whatever the soul is. Yeah. I mean,
I was thinking about like being an actor. I was
like, is that going to be obsolete in the next
like 10 years? Are we going to be watching? It
kind of could be. Yeah. Are we going to be watching
like really good AI actors? Probably. You know?
I need to find a new job. Well, I think a lot
of people are going to have to find a new job.
I think live performances, plays and musicals
and stuff like that, people are always going
to want to see people do something live. For
sure. Yeah. Well, when it comes to cinema, especially
because I feel like audiences also love larger
-than -life cinema, right? Like, we go to the
theaters to watch this, like, big shit. We loved
when VFX came into... We love the imagination
being able to be so big. I do think AI helps
in a big way to take away the burdens of the
minutia of things that we might have to do as
a tool, which it can do, like a breakdown of
a script or whatever. But I think when it comes
to creating the human fragility of life and story,
it is still a little bit... away from being able
to do that. Yeah. I think it's always going to
be like pop. Yeah. It's never going to create
like taxi driver. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You need,
I mean, but I might be wrong about that too.
Yeah. Who knows? It might not even matter by
the time it starts taking over all of our resources.
I'm so curious actually to see how many conversations
that everyone, all of us have had about, you
know, this emergence of AI and how that. Like
stays 10 years later. Are we like this? Did this
age well? Probably not. Did I know what I was
talking about? We probably have no idea what's
going on. No, no chance. It's probably going
to be so crazy. We didn't have any idea about
this. Like where we would be right now. It might
be Dr. Manhattan floating over the country telling
us what to do. It's possible. I don't know. But
thank you for being here. I really enjoyed it.
It was a really fun conversation. Thank you.
And I really enjoyed your movie. Crazy violent.
I didn't expect that, but very exciting and very
good. Thank you for taking me around the world
and everywhere else. We time traveled. We talked
about the whole world. We went into history.
We went into the future. It was awesome. Well,
congratulations to you and continued success.
Thank you, Joe. Thank you. I really enjoyed it.
Thank you. Me too. Bye, everybody. Bye.