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Welcome to this curated educational transcript of the Joe Rogan Experience. In this session, we provide a deep-dive examination of the critical perspectives and historical dialogues presented in Episode #2462. Our mission is to offer a high-fidelity, searchable research resource for students of cultural history, emerging technology, and global discourse. This transcript has been specifically optimized for academic reference, linguistic study, and archival preservation regarding Legal Transparency, Public Health Ethics, and Healthcare Accountability
The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan

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Podcast by night. All day. So you had a pile

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of notes and then you just folded them up. Like,

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did you commit them to memory? No, just these

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two things. I have the links I sent you guys.

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Oh, okay. And just some stuff there. I just saw

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the piece of paper that you folded. I was like,

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what's in there? How did, first of all, I want

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to talk you through, like, When you were a younger

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man before you had looked into this, what was

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your opinions on medical science? What was your

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opinions on vaccines? Were you skeptical or did

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you just kind of assume that everything that

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we're told is exactly how it is and the experts

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have only the best interests of human beings

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in mind and not money? I had what you would effectively

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call the mainstream view. Vaccines saved humanity.

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Me too. We'd all be dead without them. You know,

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there was the Bible given to Moses at Sinai,

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and then there were vaccines. Yeah. That's basically,

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you know. I think it's anybody that didn't consider

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themselves a fool. You know, you would have to

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be a fool, like a real fool, to ignore all this

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medical science, which is the reason why there's

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so many people alive today that would have died.

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And a lot of that's true, like penicillin, antibiotics.

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There's a lot of stuff that has saved a lot of

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people's lives. But the vaccine won. Until this

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COVID epidemic, I would have never questioned

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it. I mocked anti -vaxxers. I was like, these

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people are silly. Don't they know all the good

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things that vaccines have done? And there's the

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blatant propaganda that we were force -fed like

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one of those ducks they're trying to make foie

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gras with. It just made me stop and pause and

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go, is the whole thing like this? Is this whole

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thing just a dirty money laundering operation?

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Because it kind of seems like that's at least

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part of the reason why they were telling people

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to get boosted when they knew it wasn't working

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and telling young people that didn't need it.

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They wanted to make a lot of money. That's the

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only reason why you would do any of those things

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after a certain amount of information is out.

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And so it just made me stop and think about the

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whole thing and go, well. Why would I assume

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that this is the one area where pharmaceutical

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drug companies, doctors, everybody's been totally

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honest in this one area when it's like a religious

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thing if you question it? And I love the title

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of your book. Yes. Vaccines, Amen. Yeah. The

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Religion of Vaccines. That's what it is. It's

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a religion for secular, intelligent people with

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a higher education. And it causes incredible

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cognitive dissonance for anybody out there to

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come to the conclusion that the CDC and the FDA

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and our public health authorities and what the

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entire medical establishment has been telling

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you may not be accurate about vaccines. Because

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like what you just said, the claim that you're

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a flat earther, you're an anti -vaxxer. They're

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used as a way to say you are really out there

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and dumb. They're completely equal in their impact.

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And so it takes incredible cognitive dissonance

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to say there are real problems with vaccines.

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But vaccines really sit in their own little universe.

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They're unlike any other medical product. They're

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not like penicillin. They're not like any other

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drugs. They're not like any other product out

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there, any other product in this room. anything

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out there for one major reason. Every other product

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that exists, I can sue the company. I can hold

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them accountable if that product injures or kills

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you or your child on the basis that product could

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have been safer. The only product, and I mean

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this literally, the only product in America where

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you cannot sue to say, had you made that product

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safer, My child wouldn't be dead. My child wouldn't

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be seriously injured. They wouldn't have a neurological

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disorder. They wouldn't have immunological disorder.

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They wouldn't have a nervous system disorder.

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They wouldn't have a cardiac issue. Our childhood

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vaccines and child vaccines used by adults. It's

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the only one. And that's because of a law called

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the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of

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1986. It gave pharma companies that incredibly

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special immunity. Just to put that into context,

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okay, and I'll tie this back in a second as to

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how we ended up with this notion of this belief

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religion in vaccines because, you know, give

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an industry 40 years of unopposed ability to

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influence, they're going to get pretty dang far,

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and they did with vaccines. And so, you know,

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a lot of industries face a crossroads where their

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products are causing more harm than good. Gas

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tanks used to explode. What did they do? Made

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a better gas tank, right? Building materials

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had asbestos, caused cancer. What did they do?

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They make better building materials, right? Did

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they give them immunity? No, of course not. But

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in the instance of vaccines leading up to 1986,

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there were only three routine vaccines. That's

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it. That's all there was. A child following the

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CDC schedule in 1986. got three injections on

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or before their first birthday. Okay? Those three

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products were causing so much harm and injury

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that every manufacturer of them went out of business.

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And that was the MMR vaccine, the DTP, and the

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OPV vaccine. Every single one, from six down

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to one, or for the Piertussis vaccine, six down

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to one for measles, about three down to one for

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polio. And with one company left for each. Instead

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of forcing them to do what every other industry

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has to do, like I said, make better building

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materials without asbestos, make better cars

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that don't explode, go down the chain of different

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products out there. Congress did something completely

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unique. It said, you know what? We're just going

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to give you immunity. We're going to make it

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so that. No company, excuse me, no individual,

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no parent, no child can sue you for the injuries

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and deaths caused by your vaccine products. That

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is what the National Childhood Vaccine Injury

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Act of 1986 did. And not only for those three

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products, but for any other childhood vaccine

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thereafter. And what that effectively has done

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is given 40 years for the industry to promote

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their products with no pushback. When you read

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about a problem with a car. Where are you reading

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about it from? Usually a class action lawsuit

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in the paper, right? Not going to read about

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that in vaccines typically. And because of that,

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you ended up where we are. Anyways, there's a

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lot more detail to that, but I'll stop there

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for now. No, please keep going. Well, I mean,

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when you think about what makes products safer,

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right? Because I've got a law firm with over

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100 individuals. I'm the managing partner of

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the firm. Half my firm does all types of plate

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-to -side class actions. We can hold companies

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accountable for almost anything. Your data. We

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do hundreds of data breach cases, genetic privacy

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cases, biometric privacy cases. We do all types

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of lawsuits like that nature, by the way. And

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New York Times loves those lawsuits, by the way.

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That stuff nobody attacks me for, okay? Oh, making

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my privacy better? Oh, protecting me from cars

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that explode? Oh, thank you. Make vaccines safer?

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You want to kill everybody. Okay. But that's

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where it's really weird. Well, here's where I

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think I'm hoping I can make it make sense without

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causing cognitive dissonance. So going back to

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how we make products safer in America or anywhere,

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it's not the government. Governments don't make

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products safer. Look at extremely authoritarian

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regimes. where there was very little free market

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like the former USSR. You think products were

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safe? No. What makes products safe? It's the

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economic self -interest of the company. It's

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the economic interest of the company to make

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the product safer. Why? You probably own stock,

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right? And where do you want your stock to go,

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up or down? How do you want it to go? You want

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it to go up or you want it to go down? Where

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do you want it to go? Up. You want it to go up.

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Okay. So do all the investors. Right. So does

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everybody who owns that stock. So does Wall Street.

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So does the CEO. So does the board. So does everybody.

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The people who own the stock. Everybody involved.

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All the employees that have stock options, including

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usually the major ones. Everybody wants it to

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go up. If you lose money, it doesn't go up. So

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normally, the interest to assure a product is

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safer is aligned with the profit motive. Because

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if your product causes injury and harm, then

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you're going to lose money. So you want to know

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typically. You have an economic self -interest

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as a corporation to know. Not because you're

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altruistic. Not because you're moral. Not because

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you're ethical. Just because you have that economic

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self -interest to assure the product is safe

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before you go to market and after you go to market.

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Okay? And that exists for every product in America

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with effectively one exception. Vaccines. That's

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really it. Now, I'm going to show you one result

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of that in practice. When you think of drugs,

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and this will help, I think, tie into what you're

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saying about what happened with COVID. Most drugs

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are licensed based on multi -year placebo -controlled

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trials. Most of them. Why? Because the FDA requires

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it? Because the FDA is so great? No. Nothing

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to do with the FDA. It's because the company

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wants to know whether the drug is safe or not

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before it goes to market. Because you know what

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happens with the drug that they put out that's

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going to make $40 billion in revenue or $20 billion

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but causes $100 billion in harm? They end up

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upside down. So they want to know, to a reasonable

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degree, how safe the drug is before it goes to

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market. In an attempt not to cherry pick, as

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I did in my book, I found an article that listed

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the top four selling profitable drugs by Pfizer

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as of like 2000, 2021 or something, 2019. OK,

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and if you look at those four most profitable

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drugs, as I put in my book, each one has two

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to seven years of follow up in the clinical trial

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that was relied upon to license that drug against

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a placebo control group. Just to make sure everybody,

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I'm sure everybody knows what that means, but

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that just means a group that gets something inert.

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So this way you give the group the experimental

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drug, you give a group the placebo, something

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inert, you track them for multiple years, and

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then you compare all the outcomes, cardiovascular

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outcomes, neurological outcomes, go down the

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list. Cancer rates, and you see the difference.

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You get a real actual sense of the safety between

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those two for that product. In contrast, for

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most childhood vaccines, instead of years, it's

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often days or weeks of safety review in the clinical

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trial relied upon to license them. Not a single,

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and I know that folks can test this all the time,

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but it's in the FDA literature. Not a single

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routine injected childhood vaccine was licensed.

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based on a placebo -controlled trial, save for

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the COVID vaccine, by the way, for children.

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It's the only one. Not a single one, okay? Nor

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was the vaccine sometimes used as the control

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itself licensed based on a placebo -controlled

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trial, nor anywhere down that chain. Chapter

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10 of my book, I go through every vaccine. I

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go through, I have it all cited to the FDA licensure

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documents. You can listen to the talking heads

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or you can rely on the primary sources from the

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FDA, which is why I call my book Vaccines Amen,

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because there is what they tell you and then

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there's what the actual evidence shows, right?

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So that gives you an example of the outcome of

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not having an economic self -interest. With drugs,

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they have it, so they want to know the safety.

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Can I challenge you on that? What about Vioxx?

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Like the Vioxx people knew that there was one

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of the things that was revealed during the trial

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is that they knew that there was going to be

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issues. I think the quote was, we still think

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we'll do well. And that was one of the damning

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aspects of the email disclosure, because you

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got a chance to see how these guys talk about

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this drug that they're about to release. I think

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they wound up paying a percentage of the amount

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of money they made from the drug, but they made

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way more from the drug. then they did the fine.

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No, I appreciate that challenge. And it's why

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I said when I was saying that they do the analysis

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of whether they're going to have $100 billion

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in loss or $40 billion in revenue. I'm not saying

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they won't put out a drug that causes harm. You're

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saying it can't cause too much harm. Exactly.

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They don't want to end up upside down. And remember,

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the whole reason a drug is licensed is because

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it can cause harm. The crazy thing about the

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Vioxx one is I think it killed somewhere north

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of 50 ,000 people and they still made profit

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off of it, which is kind of bananas. They pulled

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it and made billions in profit. This is the darker

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aspect of this. If you were talking about companies

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that never did anything wrong and had the highest

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moral and ethical standards, and they're the

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ones – because it's not about money. It's about

00:14:12.690 --> 00:14:15.070
saving people's health and it's about public

00:14:15.070 --> 00:14:17.049
safety and we've got to make sure that we do

00:14:17.049 --> 00:14:18.370
this right. We're going to make sure we squash

00:14:18.370 --> 00:14:21.250
all the disinformation. But that's not what you're

00:14:21.250 --> 00:14:23.950
talking about. You're talking about these companies

00:14:23.950 --> 00:14:27.559
that have been fined billions. billions of dollars

00:14:27.559 --> 00:14:30.159
in criminal fines for fraud, for all kinds of

00:14:30.159 --> 00:14:33.120
shit. These are the people. And the idea that

00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:35.320
they wouldn't lie about vaccines, like this is

00:14:35.320 --> 00:14:37.059
the one thing they're going to tell you the truth.

00:14:37.500 --> 00:14:40.019
Ruthless, capitalist, attached to money and drugs.

00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:42.940
This is the one thing they're going to 100 %

00:14:42.940 --> 00:14:44.960
tell you the truth about. That seems kind of

00:14:44.960 --> 00:14:49.220
kooky. That's a hard sell for anybody who's not

00:14:49.220 --> 00:14:52.600
ideologically captured. That's a hard sell. Yeah,

00:14:52.659 --> 00:14:55.340
but I don't think you need to go down the road

00:14:55.340 --> 00:14:57.279
that there's some kind of evil nefariousness

00:14:57.279 --> 00:14:59.379
there. No, that's not what I'm saying. It's a

00:14:59.379 --> 00:15:02.720
broken economic and regulatory system from my

00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:05.519
perspective. Right. It's just a completely broken

00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:08.639
economic. To your point about Vioxx, right? So

00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:10.960
in Vioxx, it caused an incredible amount of harm,

00:15:11.019 --> 00:15:14.779
but they still decided that the benefits of it

00:15:14.779 --> 00:15:17.179
raised the risk. Do you know the story about

00:15:17.179 --> 00:15:19.519
the cars that used to explode? It's the classic.

00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:22.960
case we learned in law school. And the gas tank

00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:26.379
and these cars - Was it a Pinto? It was the Pintos.

00:15:26.419 --> 00:15:29.179
That's right. And a number of them exploded every

00:15:29.179 --> 00:15:31.000
year, burning the people inside them alive to

00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:35.019
death. Horrible. Way to go. And there was a lawsuit.

00:15:35.179 --> 00:15:37.259
And in that lawsuit, what they discovered was

00:15:37.259 --> 00:15:40.039
the company had done an internal calculation

00:15:40.039 --> 00:15:44.000
in which it did the math. What's it going to

00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:47.549
cost to actually fix all the gas tanks? What's

00:15:47.549 --> 00:15:49.450
that dollar number versus what's it going to

00:15:49.450 --> 00:15:52.289
cost to just pay out for those deaths every year

00:15:52.289 --> 00:15:54.809
for those people that we burn knowingly are going

00:15:54.809 --> 00:15:57.190
to die and burn to death in those cars? And the

00:15:57.190 --> 00:16:00.629
calculation was that it was going to cost less

00:16:00.629 --> 00:16:04.049
to pay out for the deaths. And that is what the

00:16:04.049 --> 00:16:06.350
internal document showed. And that, by the way,

00:16:06.409 --> 00:16:09.490
is in part the case, the quintessential case

00:16:09.490 --> 00:16:12.029
you learn in law school for why they have punitive

00:16:12.029 --> 00:16:15.529
damages. Because the punitive damages were there

00:16:15.529 --> 00:16:21.149
to force the company to conform its conduct in

00:16:21.149 --> 00:16:24.649
exactly that scenario where the economics weren't

00:16:24.649 --> 00:16:27.570
going to do it. Even in something that horrible,

00:16:27.750 --> 00:16:30.350
when the market forces weren't sufficient, the

00:16:30.350 --> 00:16:32.649
economic self -interest wasn't there, you had

00:16:32.649 --> 00:16:36.090
to make it happen. How? Through punitive damages.

00:16:36.210 --> 00:16:39.100
I know there's a lot of... you know, news about

00:16:39.100 --> 00:16:41.519
punitive damages. Oh, it's excessive and so forth.

00:16:41.559 --> 00:16:43.200
But that's what they're there for. They're there

00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:46.120
for that scenario where we're just holding them

00:16:46.120 --> 00:16:48.659
accountable. Now go back to vaccines. Think about

00:16:48.659 --> 00:16:53.500
how incredibly harmful and how much harm these

00:16:53.500 --> 00:16:57.799
vaccines must do that they cannot survive on

00:16:57.799 --> 00:17:01.799
the market without this immunity from 1986. Think

00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:03.480
about that. If you were going to steal me on

00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:05.980
the argument against that, wouldn't you say,

00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:10.250
look, These are we can't have frivolous lawsuits

00:17:10.250 --> 00:17:12.930
against these people that are providing us the

00:17:12.930 --> 00:17:15.230
most important medication that's available to

00:17:15.230 --> 00:17:18.809
humans. The whole reason why we survive smallpox

00:17:18.809 --> 00:17:21.730
and polio and all these different things. It's

00:17:21.730 --> 00:17:23.390
these vaccines. Without them, we'd all be dead.

00:17:23.710 --> 00:17:26.329
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00:18:33.089 --> 00:18:37.400
working knives for working people. So let's just

00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:38.960
assume that the last part of what you said is

00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:41.700
true, which we know it's not. But with that said,

00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:45.680
let's steel manning it. Easy response. Okay.

00:18:45.799 --> 00:18:54.119
Okay. Drugs, drugs that are for very small populations,

00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:56.380
meaning not a lot of market, not a lot of sales,

00:18:56.559 --> 00:19:00.140
that cause incredible side effects can survive

00:19:00.140 --> 00:19:02.400
in the market profitably. Think about that for

00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:07.630
a second. Why? Okay. Here's why. It's a little

00:19:07.630 --> 00:19:09.890
bit of legal stuff, but it's not that hard. It's

00:19:09.890 --> 00:19:13.230
not that bad, okay? The primary claim you would

00:19:13.230 --> 00:19:17.309
typically bring against a product is the claim

00:19:17.309 --> 00:19:18.990
that it could have been made safer. It's called

00:19:18.990 --> 00:19:22.029
a design defect claim. It's a claim where I say,

00:19:22.089 --> 00:19:26.630
hey, had you put in a two -cent stopper on that

00:19:26.630 --> 00:19:30.029
gas tank, it wouldn't have exploded. If you had

00:19:30.029 --> 00:19:32.849
put in a one -penny plastic shield on that saw,

00:19:33.130 --> 00:19:37.160
I'd have my finger. Okay? Design defect claim.

00:19:37.339 --> 00:19:39.019
The claim you could have made a product safer.

00:19:39.160 --> 00:19:42.319
It is the primary claim you would bring for a

00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:46.339
product. Okay? Injury claim. So how do you protect

00:19:46.339 --> 00:19:49.579
against it? You make the product as technologically

00:19:49.579 --> 00:19:53.579
safe as possible. Right? So if you have a drug

00:19:53.579 --> 00:19:55.839
that causes incredible side effects that we just

00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:58.119
talked about, make the drug as safe as possible.

00:19:58.279 --> 00:20:01.079
Make sure there are no contaminants. Make sure

00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:03.099
that you use the best possible ingredients. Make

00:20:03.099 --> 00:20:06.720
sure the combination, right, the safest adjuvant,

00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:09.339
go down the road. That's number one. Number two,

00:20:10.420 --> 00:20:14.779
the second way you hold them accountable is you

00:20:14.779 --> 00:20:17.160
bring a claim called a failure to warrant claim.

00:20:17.790 --> 00:20:20.230
I failed to warn you about the harm that the

00:20:20.230 --> 00:20:23.029
drug could have caused. OK, and so what do you

00:20:23.029 --> 00:20:25.430
have to do there to protect yourself? The company

00:20:25.430 --> 00:20:27.990
has to disclose all the potential harms. If it

00:20:27.990 --> 00:20:29.410
has it right there in the package insert and

00:20:29.410 --> 00:20:30.910
you get it and it says, hey, it can cause this,

00:20:30.970 --> 00:20:33.150
this, this, this, this. You were told you chose

00:20:33.150 --> 00:20:35.569
to still take the product. They made it as safe

00:20:35.569 --> 00:20:37.609
as technologically feasible. They disclose the

00:20:37.609 --> 00:20:40.390
risks. And that is how companies typically limit

00:20:40.390 --> 00:20:42.230
their liability with medical products, with drug

00:20:42.230 --> 00:20:44.349
products. OK, why can't they do the vaccines?

00:20:45.099 --> 00:20:47.539
Why can't they just make them as safe as technologically

00:20:47.539 --> 00:20:50.500
feasible, can't sue them for design defect, and

00:20:50.500 --> 00:20:52.420
disclose all the actual risks in the package

00:20:52.420 --> 00:20:55.180
insert? Okay? The logical conclusion is, and

00:20:55.180 --> 00:20:57.380
one other point to that, and then I'll respond

00:20:57.380 --> 00:21:00.640
to your steel man, okay? And it's this, all right?

00:21:01.220 --> 00:21:03.440
It's been 40 years for some of these vaccines.

00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:06.200
Hep B vaccine, for example, licensed in 86 and

00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:08.819
89, the two standalones. It's been 40 years.

00:21:08.839 --> 00:21:09.980
You're telling me they still don't know it's

00:21:09.980 --> 00:21:11.839
safe enough to lift that immunity? You're giving

00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:13.599
it to millions of kids a year. You're making

00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:15.720
billions of dollars on the sales of this product,

00:21:15.779 --> 00:21:18.400
and you still don't know it's safe enough to

00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:22.779
lift that immunity? Please. OK, if I was a silly

00:21:22.779 --> 00:21:26.779
person, I would probably say these vaccines are

00:21:26.779 --> 00:21:29.839
more important than any medication that's ever

00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:32.660
existed because they are the reason why we are

00:21:32.660 --> 00:21:35.539
here, because that's how we survive smallpox

00:21:35.539 --> 00:21:38.200
and polio and the measles and everything else.

00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:42.779
And without them, we would have perished. We

00:21:42.779 --> 00:21:45.319
would have never achieved the technological states

00:21:45.319 --> 00:21:47.240
that we're at because we wouldn't have been healthy.

00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:50.589
We would have gone through mass plagues. Okay,

00:21:50.609 --> 00:21:54.450
out. So because of that, it's just important

00:21:54.450 --> 00:21:57.849
that they stay in business. Well, a few things.

00:21:57.910 --> 00:21:59.529
And we trust the science. We should trust the

00:21:59.529 --> 00:22:01.049
science, Aaron. Trust the science, yes. Believe.

00:22:01.230 --> 00:22:06.829
Aaron, trust the science. Yes, sir. Amen. Amen.

00:22:08.369 --> 00:22:10.569
Yeah, I try not to do too much believing, and

00:22:10.569 --> 00:22:12.710
I try to do a little bit of evidence -based thinking.

00:22:12.829 --> 00:22:15.309
But any event, look, when it comes to these products,

00:22:15.549 --> 00:22:18.710
I save my beliefs for religion, the unanswerables.

00:22:19.190 --> 00:22:21.819
Where do we go when we die? Right. And so forth.

00:22:21.880 --> 00:22:23.680
I have to take a leap of faith, and I do it when

00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:25.759
I need to, but you don't need to with these products.

00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:29.339
Okay. On the first part of what you said, first

00:22:29.339 --> 00:22:32.400
of all, there are products probably that are

00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:34.339
far more important to humanity at the moment,

00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:37.480
no question about it, than vaccines, even assuming

00:22:37.480 --> 00:22:39.700
it had the results that you just claimed, which

00:22:39.700 --> 00:22:42.519
I'll address in a second. Imagine you said, look,

00:22:42.740 --> 00:22:45.000
cars are essential. I mean, cars, you can't get

00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:46.160
an ambulance. You can't get to the hospital.

00:22:46.500 --> 00:22:48.279
Without cars, you can't get to work. You can't

00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:50.799
get to school. It's essential to a functioning

00:22:50.799 --> 00:22:52.259
society. So let's give cards immediate liability.

00:22:52.539 --> 00:22:54.599
Intuitively, you'd say that's ridiculous. Right.

00:22:54.740 --> 00:22:58.640
On the deaths point, that is one of the myths.

00:22:58.759 --> 00:23:02.359
That is one of the mythologies around vaccines

00:23:02.359 --> 00:23:05.119
that has developed over time. This notion that

00:23:05.119 --> 00:23:08.220
everybody in America die without vaccines. In

00:23:08.220 --> 00:23:10.579
chapter seven of my book, and I lay it out for

00:23:10.579 --> 00:23:14.000
every single disease. And what I do there is

00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:17.519
I say, OK. How many deaths were there in America

00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:20.180
the year before the vaccine was first introduced

00:23:20.180 --> 00:23:25.680
or widely used or so forth, okay, in any real

00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:29.200
degree? And what you find is if you go down the

00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:31.660
list, there were typically dozens to hundreds,

00:23:31.700 --> 00:23:35.099
maybe a thousand or so deaths from each disease

00:23:35.099 --> 00:23:37.339
for which we vaccinate. The further back in time

00:23:37.339 --> 00:23:40.880
you go, the larger the number in that dozens

00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:44.480
to a thousand or so deaths, okay? For example,

00:23:44.700 --> 00:23:47.599
measles, the dreaded measles that they say everybody

00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:50.319
will die from. No measles vaccine, we're all

00:23:50.319 --> 00:23:52.480
going to die, right? That is the impression they

00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:54.720
give you. You have any idea how many people died

00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:56.599
of measles in the years before there was a measles

00:23:56.599 --> 00:23:59.200
vaccine in the United States? How many? About

00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:02.640
400 a year. That's it? That's it. 400 a year,

00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:05.440
dying in the United States at a time when everybody

00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:08.880
had measles, which comes out to about 1 in 450

00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:11.640
,000 Americans dying of measles. That's in the

00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:13.559
CDC. Anybody listening to this is like, come

00:24:13.559 --> 00:24:16.200
on, that's not true. CDC mortality documents

00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:19.640
on the CDC website, cited in my book, 400. And

00:24:19.640 --> 00:24:22.819
don't about 50 ,000 people every year die from

00:24:22.819 --> 00:24:30.220
the flu? Well, that statistic includes bacterial...

00:24:31.509 --> 00:24:34.630
deaths that they say are potentially the result

00:24:34.630 --> 00:24:37.130
from having influenza. So your immune system

00:24:37.130 --> 00:24:39.029
gets weakened and then something else hits you

00:24:39.029 --> 00:24:42.289
and that kills you? Is that the idea behind it?

00:24:43.289 --> 00:24:46.430
Well, that's just the way they gather the data,

00:24:46.470 --> 00:24:50.910
is the way I'll put it. But with influenza...

00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:55.079
Let me finish up with the measles, because I

00:24:55.079 --> 00:24:56.700
think this is important on the measles one, and

00:24:56.700 --> 00:24:59.579
I can deal with influenza as well. But on the

00:24:59.579 --> 00:25:01.680
measles one, just to really, because you're saying,

00:25:01.779 --> 00:25:04.339
well, everybody would die without these. I don't

00:25:04.339 --> 00:25:06.059
think people think of influenza, by the way.

00:25:06.359 --> 00:25:10.279
They think of measles. Right. They think of those

00:25:10.279 --> 00:25:12.559
diseases. Right. I don't ever hear anybody say

00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:13.799
to me, well, everybody will die of influenza

00:25:13.799 --> 00:25:17.039
without influenza vaccines. It's available. Everybody

00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:19.890
can get it. The mortality hasn't changed much.

00:25:19.930 --> 00:25:21.950
In fact, if you look at the mortality of influenza

00:25:21.950 --> 00:25:25.289
before influenza vaccines were widespread, we're

00:25:25.289 --> 00:25:27.369
not doing that great. Okay. Anyway, putting that

00:25:27.369 --> 00:25:29.690
aside for a moment. Not only that, isn't there

00:25:29.690 --> 00:25:32.049
data that shows that if you get it, you're more

00:25:32.049 --> 00:25:35.990
likely to get other colds? Yeah. I have a whole

00:25:35.990 --> 00:25:40.150
giant footnote in my book about this, and I actually

00:25:40.150 --> 00:25:42.170
tweeted this out and did a stuff stick about

00:25:42.170 --> 00:25:46.099
this, a whole series of articles. Studies that

00:25:46.099 --> 00:25:49.779
show that those that have had the influenza vaccines,

00:25:50.039 --> 00:25:53.759
maybe these studies often reflect have around

00:25:53.759 --> 00:25:55.839
the same rate of influenza. Maybe they have less

00:25:55.839 --> 00:25:59.779
respiratory influenza infections. But many studies

00:25:59.779 --> 00:26:03.349
show they have multiple times the rate of. other

00:26:03.349 --> 00:26:06.769
respiratory infections. So good job. Maybe you

00:26:06.769 --> 00:26:08.650
reduced your risk of influenza by this much,

00:26:08.769 --> 00:26:11.609
but you've increased your risk of another different

00:26:11.609 --> 00:26:13.829
respiratory disease by that much. How much is

00:26:13.829 --> 00:26:15.470
it? How much of the increase? Depends on the

00:26:15.470 --> 00:26:18.309
study. Some studies show four times risk. Some

00:26:18.309 --> 00:26:20.470
studies show three times risk. Yeah. I mean,

00:26:20.490 --> 00:26:23.529
literally three, four. I mean, huge percentages.

00:26:23.690 --> 00:26:25.750
So and they're statistically significant in these

00:26:25.750 --> 00:26:27.809
studies. And so, you know, when you're looking

00:26:27.809 --> 00:26:30.230
at these are all retrospective epidemiological

00:26:30.230 --> 00:26:33.309
studies. And but when you do a retrospective

00:26:33.309 --> 00:26:35.829
epi study, which means you take existing data

00:26:35.829 --> 00:26:38.950
and then you study it versus saying, OK, we're

00:26:38.950 --> 00:26:40.690
going to do a study and follow people going forward.

00:26:40.730 --> 00:26:46.529
OK, if you find like a one point three. time,

00:26:46.569 --> 00:26:48.549
which means 30 % increased risk, like that's

00:26:48.549 --> 00:26:51.269
a published full finding. This is three, 400

00:26:51.269 --> 00:26:54.349
% increased risk. Yes. And in many of these studies,

00:26:54.410 --> 00:26:56.130
it's inconvenient data. So obviously it's not

00:26:56.130 --> 00:26:59.950
talked about. Right. So 400 people is not a whole

00:26:59.950 --> 00:27:03.289
lot. I'm sure, I mean, it's sad when 400 people

00:27:03.289 --> 00:27:06.910
die, but it's also one of those diseases that

00:27:06.910 --> 00:27:10.630
when you're a child, it's much more survivable,

00:27:10.650 --> 00:27:12.890
right? Than adult, adult, it's rough, isn't it?

00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:17.259
Yeah. So measles, the ideal age to get it is

00:27:17.259 --> 00:27:20.160
not when you're an infant, which in the pre -vaccine

00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:22.799
era, infants typically did not get measles because

00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:26.059
they got maternal immunity from the mother. And

00:27:26.059 --> 00:27:28.539
you don't want to get it as an adult because

00:27:28.539 --> 00:27:31.559
it is more likely to cause problems, which again,

00:27:31.640 --> 00:27:34.299
in the pre -vaccine era, wasn't a problem because

00:27:34.299 --> 00:27:37.960
everybody virtually got it as a child. Right.

00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:42.500
And when you got it as a child, My recollection

00:27:42.500 --> 00:27:45.279
of it was the episode of the Brady Bunch. Do

00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:47.000
you remember? Yeah. Remember that episode? Yeah,

00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:48.640
they were laughing about it. Let's watch this.

00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:51.859
Find that clip and let's watch it because it's

00:27:51.859 --> 00:27:57.039
so indicative of what measles was actually like

00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:00.420
in the culture of the people that would get it

00:28:00.420 --> 00:28:03.839
all the time versus this boogeyman of today.

00:28:04.460 --> 00:28:07.460
I mean, it is it's so stark. It's so I mean,

00:28:07.460 --> 00:28:09.339
it's like imagine the kid coming home. Hey, mom,

00:28:09.460 --> 00:28:10.900
I've got AIDS. I got to stay home from school.

00:28:11.180 --> 00:28:13.960
It's not that right. It's it's the way that most

00:28:13.960 --> 00:28:15.500
folks who've had chicken pox think of chicken

00:28:15.500 --> 00:28:19.759
pox. Right. But we're told that it's killing

00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:21.920
people. We're told that it's killing people now.

00:28:22.259 --> 00:28:24.119
We're told that it's killing. It's always kids.

00:28:24.220 --> 00:28:28.019
We're told it's killing kids now. And look, if

00:28:28.019 --> 00:28:30.140
anybody dies from measles, I'm very sad. But

00:28:30.140 --> 00:28:33.759
I want to know, is it with measles? Remember

00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:36.859
the with COVID or from COVID? Like what kind

00:28:36.859 --> 00:28:39.279
of condition were these people in before this

00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:42.299
hit them? Because some, I mean, that was the

00:28:42.299 --> 00:28:44.640
thing about COVID. It's like, yeah, it's fatal.

00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:49.039
If you have four plus comorbidities, you're more

00:28:49.039 --> 00:28:50.579
likely to be fatal. And that was most of the

00:28:50.579 --> 00:28:53.440
people that wind up dying from it, right? That's

00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:56.640
almost certainly the case. And I can add another

00:28:56.640 --> 00:28:59.099
data point to that to help support that, which

00:28:59.099 --> 00:29:02.559
is. that between 1900, and this is again CDC

00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:06.740
data, between 1900 and the late 1950s, early

00:29:06.740 --> 00:29:10.920
1960s, the mortality from measles declined in

00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:14.420
the United States by over 98%. You know what

00:29:14.420 --> 00:29:17.160
didn't cause that? Vaccines. Yeah, because it

00:29:17.160 --> 00:29:23.420
didn't exist. So immunity had become a herd thing,

00:29:23.559 --> 00:29:26.710
just like COVID -ish. right now well everybody

00:29:26.710 --> 00:29:29.309
basically has had covet or at least he's been

00:29:29.309 --> 00:29:32.130
exposed to it by now yeah here it is what's yeah

00:29:32.130 --> 00:29:34.190
it's a whole episode there's multiple clips i

00:29:34.190 --> 00:29:38.289
don't know which one just just let's just try

00:29:38.289 --> 00:29:40.430
i think it's he finds out he's coming over put

00:29:40.430 --> 00:29:42.009
on your headphones for a second so we could hear

00:29:42.009 --> 00:29:45.170
this aaron oh yeah grab your headphones thank

00:29:45.170 --> 00:29:49.109
you no are you sure it's the measles well he

00:29:49.109 --> 00:29:51.130
certainly got all the symptoms a slight temperature

00:29:51.130 --> 00:29:53.579
a lot of dots and a great big smile A great big

00:29:53.579 --> 00:29:59.960
smile. No school for a few days. You've got measles.

00:30:00.660 --> 00:30:02.859
Golly, mothers are supposed to know everything.

00:30:03.160 --> 00:30:05.779
But do you have to keep proving it? You've got

00:30:05.779 --> 00:30:08.240
a temperature, too. What do you mean, too? Peter

00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:09.539
was sent home from school a little while ago.

00:30:09.799 --> 00:30:13.059
Oh, what was his temperature? 101 .1. Oh, is

00:30:13.059 --> 00:30:17.759
that all? I'm 101 .2. Oh, Greg, you are my railroad.

00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:21.299
I'll be a sport. You can ride on it free. Thanks

00:30:21.299 --> 00:30:25.660
a lot. It's... Your turn, Peter. They're having

00:30:25.660 --> 00:30:31.819
a measles party. Boy, this is the life, isn't

00:30:31.819 --> 00:30:34.539
it? Yeah. If you have to get sick, you sure can't

00:30:34.539 --> 00:30:36.599
beat the measles. That's right. No medicine.

00:30:36.819 --> 00:30:38.940
Inside or out. Like shots, I mean. Don't even

00:30:38.940 --> 00:30:44.619
mention shots. Yes! Okay. I mean, am I crazy?

00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:49.119
Or have we gone through one of the wildest gaslightings?

00:30:49.519 --> 00:30:52.000
Of anything ever. There's there's people out

00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:54.759
there that because of the things that you said

00:30:54.759 --> 00:30:57.420
so far about the measles will be 100 percent

00:30:57.420 --> 00:31:01.539
freaking out on Twitter. Right. But this is this

00:31:01.539 --> 00:31:04.559
is a window into how the American public thought.

00:31:04.660 --> 00:31:06.240
I know it's a television show. I know it's a

00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:09.200
sitcom, but you can't joke around about stuff

00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:12.539
that other people wouldn't think is funny. People

00:31:12.539 --> 00:31:14.880
would think that was funny, these kids saying,

00:31:14.920 --> 00:31:16.420
if you're going to get sick, you should get the

00:31:16.420 --> 00:31:18.079
measles. And everybody at home would be like,

00:31:18.180 --> 00:31:21.420
oh, I wish I had a day off. Well, that's how

00:31:21.420 --> 00:31:23.680
they thought of it. Yeah. And to put hard data

00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:27.420
on it, going back to that statistic, over 98

00:31:27.420 --> 00:31:30.720
% reduction. Remember, it's not like COVID, Joe,

00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:34.319
because COVID, there was no immunity in the population,

00:31:34.619 --> 00:31:37.670
right? Right. Measles has been around for forever,

00:31:37.789 --> 00:31:40.309
as far as we know, thousands of years. The year

00:31:40.309 --> 00:31:45.009
1900 wasn't the beginning of herd immunity. 1900,

00:31:45.609 --> 00:31:48.069
measles already endemic. Everybody was getting

00:31:48.069 --> 00:31:50.390
measles. So every year there's a few million

00:31:50.390 --> 00:31:52.890
people cohort that were getting it and you had

00:31:52.890 --> 00:31:54.930
this decline. And so you have to ask yourself,

00:31:55.009 --> 00:31:59.450
what was the decline? It was probably better

00:31:59.450 --> 00:32:02.569
sanitation. better acute medical care, I mean,

00:32:02.609 --> 00:32:04.910
all kinds of things. And you know who could take

00:32:04.910 --> 00:32:06.950
credit for most of that stuff? Better sanitation,

00:32:07.289 --> 00:32:10.750
better living conditions, better you name it,

00:32:10.789 --> 00:32:14.210
probably public health authorities. Meaning the

00:32:14.210 --> 00:32:17.309
improvement in acute care, the introduction of

00:32:17.309 --> 00:32:20.390
antibiotics, better living conditions, not having

00:32:20.390 --> 00:32:23.509
sewage in the street, you name it, probably had

00:32:23.509 --> 00:32:26.910
a massive contributor to that reduction, but

00:32:26.910 --> 00:32:29.849
they never point to that. And there's one other

00:32:29.849 --> 00:32:31.809
really inconvenient data point with measles.

00:32:31.809 --> 00:32:33.930
And this is really where it gets upsetting for

00:32:33.930 --> 00:32:35.369
folks out there who you were just saying are

00:32:35.369 --> 00:32:38.910
going to watch the show. And it's this. That

00:32:38.910 --> 00:32:43.130
over 98 % reduction in mortality, there's no

00:32:43.130 --> 00:32:45.130
reason that that curve was not going to continue.

00:32:45.470 --> 00:32:47.369
Because pockets of the United States in the late

00:32:47.369 --> 00:32:50.089
50s and early 60s were like a developing country.

00:32:50.410 --> 00:32:52.750
In a developing country, kids are going to die.

00:32:53.259 --> 00:32:55.960
of any infectious disease because of extremely

00:32:55.960 --> 00:32:58.240
poor living conditions. And as those improved,

00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:01.220
most likely that 400 deaths also would have continued

00:33:01.220 --> 00:33:04.279
to decline. 4 .2 million births in the United

00:33:04.279 --> 00:33:07.559
States in the late 50s, early 60s, about 3 .8

00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:09.619
million births today. So in fact, there's less

00:33:09.619 --> 00:33:11.440
children being born in America today than there

00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:14.779
was then. So you have a smaller cohort of babies,

00:33:14.900 --> 00:33:18.980
young children to infect. And final data point,

00:33:19.140 --> 00:33:22.700
and it's this. This is really... I know this

00:33:22.700 --> 00:33:24.720
is going to cause cognitive dissonance for some,

00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:30.220
but studies that have looked at those that have

00:33:30.220 --> 00:33:34.599
had measles versus those that don't find that

00:33:34.599 --> 00:33:37.099
those that have had measles have a statistically

00:33:37.099 --> 00:33:42.640
significant greater reduction in deaths from

00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:46.519
cardiovascular disease and various cancers. So

00:33:46.519 --> 00:33:49.500
I'll give you an example. There's a 20 -year,

00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:52.359
22 -year prospective study in Japan funded by

00:33:52.359 --> 00:33:54.740
the government of Japan and major universities

00:33:54.740 --> 00:33:58.279
that tracked 100 ,000 people in Japan for 22

00:33:58.279 --> 00:34:01.400
years. And it found that those that had measles

00:34:01.400 --> 00:34:05.180
and mumps had a 20 % statistically significant

00:34:05.180 --> 00:34:07.380
decline in deaths from cardiovascular disease.

00:34:07.640 --> 00:34:10.380
Think about that for a second. Just think about

00:34:10.380 --> 00:34:12.579
that. About 800 ,000 Americans die of cardiovascular

00:34:12.579 --> 00:34:16.539
disease. If eliminating measles and mumps...

00:34:17.019 --> 00:34:19.199
has increased cardiovascular deaths in the United

00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:23.039
States by even 1 % on a life years lost basis,

00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:27.179
you are still way upside down on your public

00:34:27.179 --> 00:34:29.860
health benefit. By eliminating measles. Can I

00:34:29.860 --> 00:34:31.599
ask you what the speculation is and how that

00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:34.059
could be? Why would measles and mumps infection

00:34:34.059 --> 00:34:38.480
at an early age improve your health cardiovascularly?

00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:41.420
Why would it also, those that have not had measles,

00:34:41.460 --> 00:34:44.860
have a 66 % increase rate of non -Hodgkin's lymphoma

00:34:44.860 --> 00:34:48.480
and 266 % increase rate of Hodgkin's lymphoma,

00:34:48.559 --> 00:34:51.079
which kills 20 ,000 people a year. Why would

00:34:51.079 --> 00:34:54.460
women that have had measles have 50 % less ovarian

00:34:54.460 --> 00:34:57.079
cancer, which kills a lot of women every year?

00:34:57.969 --> 00:35:01.690
What is it about it? Maybe, and here's the thing,

00:35:02.170 --> 00:35:05.429
I'm, you know, and you can have evolutionary

00:35:05.429 --> 00:35:07.570
biologists talk about this as well. You've had

00:35:07.570 --> 00:35:10.449
some on. Think about it this way. Pathogens have

00:35:10.449 --> 00:35:12.929
come and gone throughout the ages, right? Right.

00:35:13.269 --> 00:35:15.789
This one didn't. Measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox,

00:35:15.949 --> 00:35:19.710
they didn't. It could be, maybe, I'm not saying

00:35:19.710 --> 00:35:21.369
it is, I'm just saying this is what the data

00:35:21.369 --> 00:35:23.719
appears to reflect. What I just told you about

00:35:23.719 --> 00:35:26.179
with cardiovascular disease and cancer, they're

00:35:26.179 --> 00:35:28.579
all in PubMed. They're all PubMed studies. They're

00:35:28.579 --> 00:35:30.460
all in the published literature. And they're

00:35:30.460 --> 00:35:32.699
all consistent having the findings that I just

00:35:32.699 --> 00:35:34.699
described, okay? I'm just a lawyer. I'm just

00:35:34.699 --> 00:35:37.760
repeating to you what the data reflects. It could

00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:40.739
be that having those febrile childhood infections

00:35:40.739 --> 00:35:44.400
conferred a survival advantage overall. And it

00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:46.519
could be the reason they never actually went

00:35:46.519 --> 00:35:49.780
away over time, became less obviously pathogenic.

00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:52.179
So it has like a hormetic effect and it makes

00:35:52.179 --> 00:35:54.059
you physically stronger somehow or another. It

00:35:54.059 --> 00:35:56.800
makes your immune system stronger, your cardiovascular

00:35:56.800 --> 00:36:00.980
– like a stress test. That means it's not outside

00:36:00.980 --> 00:36:03.380
the realm of possibility, right? I mean if lifting

00:36:03.380 --> 00:36:06.380
weights makes you stronger and studying makes

00:36:06.380 --> 00:36:08.659
you smarter, wouldn't it make sense that some

00:36:08.659 --> 00:36:10.719
form of infection that you recover from will

00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:13.679
make you more resilient? It does make sense.

00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:17.639
Just like no one wants to say, hey, you should

00:36:17.639 --> 00:36:21.780
go get measles. Look, theory of relativity is

00:36:21.780 --> 00:36:24.039
not intuitive. Why is it as you approach a more

00:36:24.039 --> 00:36:26.820
massive object or approach the speed of light

00:36:26.820 --> 00:36:30.039
does time relatively slow down? I don't know

00:36:30.039 --> 00:36:32.460
if it makes sense or not. It's just when you

00:36:32.460 --> 00:36:34.619
put two atomic clocks on a plane, one on the

00:36:34.619 --> 00:36:36.139
ground, one on the plane, you fly it around the

00:36:36.139 --> 00:36:38.760
earth. They're not ticking the same. So there

00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:41.670
it is. Right. You can't pretend that's not data.

00:36:41.789 --> 00:36:43.349
The data is what it is. It doesn't have to make

00:36:43.349 --> 00:36:45.150
sense to be true. That's a good point. That's

00:36:45.150 --> 00:36:47.210
just what it is. And I'm just saying what the

00:36:47.210 --> 00:36:50.210
studies show. Very inconvenient, a lot of cognitive

00:36:50.210 --> 00:36:51.869
dissonance there, but it could very well be that

00:36:51.869 --> 00:36:54.710
our whole, this whole program, not only do we,

00:36:54.769 --> 00:36:56.210
so going back to your whole, going all the way

00:36:56.210 --> 00:36:57.530
back to your point, you're like, well, they'll

00:36:57.530 --> 00:37:00.809
say vaccines are so important. We got to give

00:37:00.809 --> 00:37:04.610
them this immunity. No. In fact, quite the opposite.

00:37:05.050 --> 00:37:08.809
Our babies are so precious, are so important.

00:37:09.159 --> 00:37:11.440
We want to make sure we have the safest possible

00:37:11.440 --> 00:37:14.699
product you can have. And the way to do that

00:37:14.699 --> 00:37:16.519
is to make sure the companies have an economic

00:37:16.519 --> 00:37:19.460
interest to make sure they're as safe as possible.

00:37:19.739 --> 00:37:22.739
I agree with you entirely. But if I was questioning

00:37:22.739 --> 00:37:27.900
anything, I would say, OK, if we don't have genetic

00:37:27.900 --> 00:37:30.199
immunity anymore because our parents didn't have

00:37:30.199 --> 00:37:31.940
it, because our parents are vaccinated against

00:37:31.940 --> 00:37:35.760
measles. Wouldn't it be better to keep vaccinating

00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:38.320
people rather than let a whole bunch of people

00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:41.659
with no immunity to measles get it, particularly

00:37:41.659 --> 00:37:45.570
older people? So this is a really important point,

00:37:45.610 --> 00:37:50.269
actually. I agree with you. Can I stop before

00:37:50.269 --> 00:37:53.730
we get going? When they mandated vaccines or

00:37:53.730 --> 00:37:55.550
when they started giving them to people was what,

00:37:55.650 --> 00:37:57.849
in like the early 60s, I believe? For measles

00:37:57.849 --> 00:38:00.969
vaccines, 63. Did a lot of people resist it?

00:38:01.050 --> 00:38:03.289
Was it back then? Were the hippies opting out?

00:38:03.550 --> 00:38:05.969
Is there like a group that you could follow and

00:38:05.969 --> 00:38:08.250
track that never got it, never got the vaccine

00:38:08.250 --> 00:38:12.329
while everybody else did? It has to be, right?

00:38:12.409 --> 00:38:14.809
I'm sure there's a group out there you can identify.

00:38:14.909 --> 00:38:17.969
I mean, the Amish. There you go. Right. So, you

00:38:17.969 --> 00:38:20.230
know, who we represent right now because New

00:38:20.230 --> 00:38:23.309
York's trying to basically kick them out of New

00:38:23.309 --> 00:38:26.429
York for not vaccinating. That's crazy. We just

00:38:26.429 --> 00:38:30.250
won in the U .S. Supreme Court. We were just

00:38:30.250 --> 00:38:32.329
successful in vacating the lower court decisions

00:38:32.329 --> 00:38:35.010
just a few weeks ago. Do you remember when Kathy

00:38:35.010 --> 00:38:37.650
Hochul was talking about the vaccines like they're

00:38:37.650 --> 00:38:40.679
a gift from God? She believes it. But do you

00:38:40.679 --> 00:38:42.159
remember how she was saying it? It was like,

00:38:42.260 --> 00:38:44.760
in any other business, if you were running a

00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:47.320
pharmaceutical drug business, if you were running

00:38:47.320 --> 00:38:50.320
Chevy and you're making a new Corvette and you

00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:52.780
started talking about how this Corvette is a

00:38:52.780 --> 00:38:55.719
gift from God, everybody would go, oh. Kathy's

00:38:55.719 --> 00:38:58.380
cracked. What are you talking about? It's a bunch

00:38:58.380 --> 00:39:01.199
of engineers. We put together a great car. It's

00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:04.500
a gift from God. What? People don't say, I believe

00:39:04.500 --> 00:39:06.679
in tables, or I believe in chairs, or I believe

00:39:06.679 --> 00:39:09.079
in TVs, and I believe in wallpaper. But they

00:39:09.079 --> 00:39:10.760
say, I believe in vaccines all the time because

00:39:10.760 --> 00:39:14.360
it carries a truism. But do they work? Does the

00:39:14.360 --> 00:39:16.760
measles vaccine prevent people from getting measles?

00:39:16.860 --> 00:39:19.219
Or is it a leaky vaccine? Is it a completely...

00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:23.440
Answering that and your prior question at the

00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:26.320
same time. Sorry. No, no, no. I'm very scattered.

00:39:27.300 --> 00:39:33.960
Is that is that is that the measles vaccine,

00:39:34.239 --> 00:39:37.199
measles, MMR vaccine and chickenpox vaccine can

00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:39.940
prevent transmission. That is not true of most

00:39:39.940 --> 00:39:44.539
vaccines, but those can't. So those can those

00:39:44.539 --> 00:39:47.780
can. And so to your now going back. So that's.

00:39:48.030 --> 00:39:50.409
the differential. And in fact, for most of the

00:39:50.409 --> 00:39:52.030
other vaccines like pertussis vaccine and so

00:39:52.030 --> 00:39:54.570
forth, they make you more likely to spread the

00:39:54.570 --> 00:39:56.730
pathogen if you're vaccinated. And I can tell

00:39:56.730 --> 00:39:59.550
you all about that. But before I do that, let

00:39:59.550 --> 00:40:01.809
me just point out that to your last comment,

00:40:01.849 --> 00:40:04.469
because measles, MMR vaccine and chickenpox vaccine

00:40:04.469 --> 00:40:08.789
can prevent transmission. You are correct. If

00:40:08.789 --> 00:40:11.909
measles were to come through society right now,

00:40:11.989 --> 00:40:15.559
right now. In the current time, it would be problematic

00:40:15.559 --> 00:40:18.219
because babies who aren't supposed to get it

00:40:18.219 --> 00:40:19.980
would be more likely to get it because the mothers

00:40:19.980 --> 00:40:21.840
aren't conferring the same maternal immunity

00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:23.619
that they did in the pre -vaccine era because

00:40:23.619 --> 00:40:25.840
the vaccine doesn't confer the same level of

00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:29.460
immunity anywhere near. And older folks, because

00:40:29.460 --> 00:40:32.519
the vaccine is nowhere as efficacious as having

00:40:32.519 --> 00:40:35.139
had the infection, depending on the study, two

00:40:35.139 --> 00:40:38.380
to 10 % do not seroconvert even after two doses,

00:40:38.460 --> 00:40:41.079
meaning they are not getting immunity at all,

00:40:41.139 --> 00:40:43.719
pretty much, or immunity is considered immune.

00:40:43.780 --> 00:40:45.800
Is this when they take it later in life or when

00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:47.980
they take it when they're young? This is when

00:40:47.980 --> 00:40:50.880
they take it when they're young. And that's why

00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:52.699
when there's a measles outbreak, a lot of times

00:40:52.699 --> 00:40:55.019
you'll hear a call to even have folks who are

00:40:55.019 --> 00:40:57.519
older get the measles vaccine again, right? There's

00:40:57.519 --> 00:41:00.320
guidance on that because it doesn't confer. If

00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:02.320
you've had measles, you're done. You never need

00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:05.179
a vaccine. Again, you'll never get measles again.

00:41:05.320 --> 00:41:11.179
One and done. So yes, it would be problematic.

00:41:12.269 --> 00:41:16.230
right now for those, for MMR, measles, mumps,

00:41:16.230 --> 00:41:18.590
rubella, and chickenpox to just kind of let it

00:41:18.590 --> 00:41:21.769
rip. You would have to really, you know, have

00:41:21.769 --> 00:41:23.929
an educational campaign beforehand if you were

00:41:23.929 --> 00:41:25.250
going to do that. But for the other vaccines,

00:41:25.769 --> 00:41:29.170
hep B vaccine, pertussis vaccine, not a problem.

00:41:29.269 --> 00:41:32.070
Those vaccines don't stop transmission. And I

00:41:32.070 --> 00:41:34.989
go into that. Kind of crazy that they give that

00:41:34.989 --> 00:41:38.519
to babies. It's kind of crazy. Kind of crazy

00:41:38.519 --> 00:41:41.760
if the parent aren't intravenous drug users or

00:41:41.760 --> 00:41:45.599
whatever, whatever would give them hep B, that

00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:49.260
you're going to inject a baby with a vaccine

00:41:49.260 --> 00:41:51.219
that prevents them from getting a sexually transmitted

00:41:51.219 --> 00:41:54.380
disease and like a rarely, you got to be doing

00:41:54.380 --> 00:41:57.139
something rough. Joe, you just don't understand

00:41:57.139 --> 00:42:03.280
what goes on in the NICU. I mean, it just seems

00:42:03.280 --> 00:42:07.949
crazy. It is. And here, I'll give you. Another

00:42:07.949 --> 00:42:13.030
data point, which is in Denmark, there is no

00:42:13.030 --> 00:42:16.570
Hep B, universal Hep B for kids. The only time

00:42:16.570 --> 00:42:19.449
they give Hep B in Denmark is if the mother is

00:42:19.449 --> 00:42:22.190
Hep B positive. So their Hep B vaccination rate

00:42:22.190 --> 00:42:25.550
amongst children is like 0 .1 % or something

00:42:25.550 --> 00:42:29.710
to that effect. So here you go. Two first world

00:42:29.710 --> 00:42:32.530
countries, America and Denmark. Universal Hep

00:42:32.530 --> 00:42:35.389
B here. Virtually zero hep B vaccine given there.

00:42:35.610 --> 00:42:38.210
The rate of hep B amongst children, not statistically

00:42:38.210 --> 00:42:40.449
significant. You know what is different between

00:42:40.449 --> 00:42:43.690
those two countries? The rate of harm from hep

00:42:43.690 --> 00:42:47.829
B vaccine. That's different. You know what a

00:42:47.829 --> 00:42:49.670
baby's never died of on the first day of life?

00:42:50.750 --> 00:42:53.010
Hepatitis B. You know what a baby has died of

00:42:53.010 --> 00:42:54.909
on the first day of life? Hepatitis B vaccine.

00:42:55.210 --> 00:42:58.070
In fact, adjudicated as such not long ago for

00:42:58.070 --> 00:43:01.069
a newborn that died from a hep B vaccine. And

00:43:01.069 --> 00:43:03.369
I said earlier, you can't sue the manufacturers.

00:43:03.590 --> 00:43:06.389
You cannot. There is a little program, though,

00:43:06.469 --> 00:43:08.489
in the federal government where you can bring

00:43:08.489 --> 00:43:10.090
a claim if you're injured from a vaccine. That's

00:43:10.090 --> 00:43:11.190
what I'm talking about right now. I went about

00:43:11.190 --> 00:43:13.389
that baby that died of Hep B. Right. It's called

00:43:13.389 --> 00:43:15.590
the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. I have

00:43:15.590 --> 00:43:18.710
like 20 folks in my firm that do that work. And,

00:43:18.710 --> 00:43:20.690
you know, it's not like a regular court. You

00:43:20.690 --> 00:43:22.630
don't get an Article 3 judge, Article 3 of the

00:43:22.630 --> 00:43:25.050
Constitution, a federal judge. You don't get

00:43:25.050 --> 00:43:27.090
any discovery as a right, which is how you prove

00:43:27.090 --> 00:43:30.309
harms. There's a $250 ,000 statutory cap on pain

00:43:30.309 --> 00:43:31.889
and suffering and on death, which is ridiculous.

00:43:32.710 --> 00:43:35.750
And it doesn't have, you know, anyways, long

00:43:35.750 --> 00:43:37.869
story short, it's paid out about $5 billion for

00:43:37.869 --> 00:43:40.230
damages and so forth from vaccines over the years.

00:43:41.079 --> 00:43:43.420
But so so I don't want people to get confused.

00:43:43.480 --> 00:43:45.699
Like when I said, well, how did this baby get

00:43:45.699 --> 00:43:47.820
adjudicated? Right. Got adjudicated in this program.

00:43:48.360 --> 00:43:54.539
Got it. Got it. So when you have conversations

00:43:54.539 --> 00:43:58.320
with people and they are the way you used to

00:43:58.320 --> 00:44:00.900
be in the way I used to be, where you just sort

00:44:00.900 --> 00:44:04.929
of. just assumed that the people that are experts

00:44:04.929 --> 00:44:07.389
in their fields are doing a great job and that's

00:44:07.389 --> 00:44:09.710
why we're alive. And you start telling them these

00:44:09.710 --> 00:44:12.710
things. Are you a real problem at a cocktail

00:44:12.710 --> 00:44:17.650
party? Have you ever had a conversation that

00:44:17.650 --> 00:44:20.050
just went completely sideways and they started

00:44:20.050 --> 00:44:22.389
getting angry at you for quoting things? Yeah.

00:44:23.849 --> 00:44:25.789
It's not a problem for me because I don't know

00:44:25.789 --> 00:44:27.670
emotions or feelings about the products. They're

00:44:27.670 --> 00:44:30.570
just products. They're no different for me. But

00:44:30.570 --> 00:44:36.710
a lot of folks, there's two things. First, for

00:44:36.710 --> 00:44:39.750
some, like medical professionals, a lot of them

00:44:39.750 --> 00:44:42.150
seem to derive a lot of their self -schema almost,

00:44:42.369 --> 00:44:44.550
their value, their worth from these products.

00:44:44.590 --> 00:44:47.250
They saved humanity. How could you question that?

00:44:47.250 --> 00:44:49.809
We are the saviors, right? In some respects,

00:44:49.849 --> 00:44:52.530
almost like supplanting God, right? What's the

00:44:52.530 --> 00:44:54.130
only thing that will save us during COVID? Was

00:44:54.130 --> 00:44:56.630
it God? No. Vaccines. That's the only thing.

00:44:56.829 --> 00:45:00.400
And then for others, They think that they know,

00:45:00.639 --> 00:45:03.539
okay? But they don't know intellectually. They've

00:45:03.539 --> 00:45:05.840
never looked at the primary sources. So when

00:45:05.840 --> 00:45:08.219
you challenge them with evidence, what can they

00:45:08.219 --> 00:45:10.460
draw from? The intellect? No. They draw from

00:45:10.460 --> 00:45:11.960
their emotions. They draw from their feelings,

00:45:11.980 --> 00:45:14.719
and that's why they get angry. I do get that

00:45:14.719 --> 00:45:18.000
all the time. But I also often get folks who

00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:20.800
are just curious and interested to listen. Well,

00:45:20.900 --> 00:45:23.219
I think there's more of those now than there's

00:45:23.219 --> 00:45:26.650
ever been before. Absolutely. I think COVID in

00:45:26.650 --> 00:45:29.670
that respect forced the conversation. You had

00:45:29.670 --> 00:45:32.570
millions of people who were listening to basic

00:45:32.570 --> 00:45:34.570
stuff that 10 years ago when I started doing

00:45:34.570 --> 00:45:36.909
this work, nobody talked about what is a placebo?

00:45:37.050 --> 00:45:39.250
What's a clinical trial? What's the stuff like

00:45:39.250 --> 00:45:42.650
this became? Or even the idea that a vaccine

00:45:42.650 --> 00:45:47.309
can cause a harm was just that notion was totally

00:45:47.309 --> 00:45:49.960
taboo seven years ago. Right. No more. Yeah,

00:45:50.019 --> 00:45:52.800
I think you're entirely correct. And also credit

00:45:52.800 --> 00:45:55.539
to YouTube because YouTube doesn't suppress this

00:45:55.539 --> 00:45:57.840
stuff anymore, which is why I found. dozens of

00:45:57.840 --> 00:46:01.659
interviews with you on YouTube. I mean, I'd seen

00:46:01.659 --> 00:46:03.800
some of your stuff on social media, but then

00:46:03.800 --> 00:46:06.980
I've watched a bunch of your stuff now on YouTube,

00:46:07.079 --> 00:46:09.880
whereas during the pandemic, everything you said,

00:46:09.880 --> 00:46:13.119
you would have got removed. I was removed. Everything

00:46:13.119 --> 00:46:16.300
I said was removed. I'll tell you the first thing

00:46:16.300 --> 00:46:19.340
they ever posted that got said, it was on Twitter.

00:46:19.639 --> 00:46:22.019
Yeah, the old Twitter. So we brought this lawsuit

00:46:22.019 --> 00:46:24.679
against the FDA to get all the documents they

00:46:24.679 --> 00:46:26.809
relied upon to license Pfizer's COVID -19. vaccine,

00:46:27.090 --> 00:46:29.949
okay? Yeah. They licensed it in 42 days, and

00:46:29.949 --> 00:46:31.369
we said, all right, for 42 days, give us all

00:46:31.369 --> 00:46:33.389
the documents, right? And they wanted it forever.

00:46:33.610 --> 00:46:35.090
They wanted to produce it at a rate of a few

00:46:35.090 --> 00:46:36.309
hundred pages a month, which would have taken

00:46:36.309 --> 00:46:39.730
hundreds of years, effectively. Got a tranche

00:46:39.730 --> 00:46:42.909
of those documents. Took some of them. Literally

00:46:42.909 --> 00:46:46.170
took one of the documents and posted it, and

00:46:46.170 --> 00:46:49.289
my tweet was just literally quoting from the

00:46:49.289 --> 00:46:52.170
document, effectively, and that was taken down

00:46:52.170 --> 00:46:54.570
as misinformation. Pfizer's own documents submitted

00:46:54.570 --> 00:46:58.269
to the FDA. One of the first things, that was

00:46:58.269 --> 00:47:00.969
just, that was mind -jarring. It was stunning.

00:47:01.150 --> 00:47:03.570
It was stunning to watch people not be outraged,

00:47:03.570 --> 00:47:07.030
too. When information was getting out about different

00:47:07.030 --> 00:47:09.869
people that were silenced, Jay Bhattacharya and

00:47:09.869 --> 00:47:11.269
all those different people that were getting

00:47:11.269 --> 00:47:15.219
attacked, Martin Koldorf, it was stunning. How

00:47:15.219 --> 00:47:18.019
no one was going, hey, what is going on here?

00:47:18.119 --> 00:47:19.480
This seems really weird that you're removing

00:47:19.480 --> 00:47:23.820
posts from guys from MIT and Stanford and banning

00:47:23.820 --> 00:47:26.340
their accounts. That's fucking crazy. And until

00:47:26.340 --> 00:47:29.000
Elon purchased Twitter, we really didn't know

00:47:29.000 --> 00:47:31.980
the extent of it. We didn't really. We really

00:47:31.980 --> 00:47:33.960
weren't aware that it was government involvement.

00:47:34.480 --> 00:47:38.199
They were stepping in to remove mal -information.

00:47:38.420 --> 00:47:40.480
That was my favorite. They came up with, you

00:47:40.480 --> 00:47:42.380
know that one? Disinformation, mal -information.

00:47:42.820 --> 00:47:45.760
Mal is the best because it's true information

00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:50.340
that might cause problems, which is fucking almost

00:47:50.340 --> 00:47:53.079
everything. As soon as you have a problem with

00:47:53.079 --> 00:47:56.420
mal -information, you are encouraging the creepiest

00:47:56.420 --> 00:47:59.219
kind of groupthink that's available, and no one

00:47:59.219 --> 00:48:00.920
freaked out. Well, a few people freaked out.

00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:04.019
But not enough. It wasn't. It should have been

00:48:04.019 --> 00:48:05.840
bipartisan. Should have been a bipartisan freak

00:48:05.840 --> 00:48:07.679
out. It should have been left and right. But

00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:10.000
it got politicized in this really stupid way

00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:13.400
where people on the left were pro vaccine and

00:48:13.400 --> 00:48:15.559
pro pharmaceutical drug company and pro narrative.

00:48:15.780 --> 00:48:17.400
And people on the right were like, I'm going

00:48:17.400 --> 00:48:19.699
to take my chances. And those were the kooks.

00:48:19.820 --> 00:48:22.420
And, you know, it was just like ideological battle

00:48:22.420 --> 00:48:26.679
as much as it was a public health crisis. Censorship

00:48:26.679 --> 00:48:30.510
was bad. It was very bad. Real bad. But. I'll

00:48:30.510 --> 00:48:33.230
tell you what made me think people were going

00:48:33.230 --> 00:48:35.610
to go into the street with pitchforks was when

00:48:35.610 --> 00:48:38.230
the government told everybody, stay at home.

00:48:38.610 --> 00:48:41.650
That wasn't hidden. That wasn't behind the scenes,

00:48:41.670 --> 00:48:44.969
the stuff you're talking about. They said, stay

00:48:44.969 --> 00:48:48.409
in your house. They didn't say, we recommend

00:48:48.409 --> 00:48:51.469
you stay in your houses. They didn't say, we

00:48:51.469 --> 00:48:54.929
recommend you get this vaccine. We don't recommend

00:48:54.929 --> 00:48:58.389
you wear this mask. They said, stay. In your

00:48:58.389 --> 00:49:01.429
house, when they had that first order came down,

00:49:01.550 --> 00:49:04.250
I was like, people are just going to be outraged.

00:49:04.389 --> 00:49:06.389
People are going to protest. And when they didn't,

00:49:06.389 --> 00:49:08.949
that's what dismayed me personally. And I'll

00:49:08.949 --> 00:49:12.650
tell you why. Because when you think about civil

00:49:12.650 --> 00:49:16.369
and individual rights, First Amendment, the right

00:49:16.369 --> 00:49:19.590
to free speech, the assembly, that was passed

00:49:19.590 --> 00:49:24.050
and adopted by the states in 1791. What's the

00:49:24.050 --> 00:49:26.010
First Amendment intended to do? It's restrict

00:49:26.010 --> 00:49:28.119
government. from infringing on those rights.

00:49:28.760 --> 00:49:32.000
You think life was easy in 1791? What do you

00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:34.400
think life was like in 1791? You think it was

00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:37.539
easy? You think it was all hunky -dory? Life

00:49:37.539 --> 00:49:42.519
in 1791 was brutal! Brutal! You want to talk

00:49:42.519 --> 00:49:47.320
about disease, pestilence, famine, war? You want

00:49:47.320 --> 00:49:49.760
to talk about a life that is no electricity,

00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:52.719
no running water, no sewage, nothing? And that

00:49:52.719 --> 00:49:55.280
amendment was passed for times that are more

00:49:55.280 --> 00:50:01.849
brutal than that. And here comes a virus. And

00:50:01.849 --> 00:50:04.610
every right you have is basically taken away.

00:50:04.690 --> 00:50:09.590
And Americans are like, take it. Take it away.

00:50:10.929 --> 00:50:14.969
That is what outraged me. Because, look, what's

00:50:14.969 --> 00:50:17.409
the whole point of this country? What is America

00:50:17.409 --> 00:50:20.929
born out of, in my view? It's born out of the

00:50:20.929 --> 00:50:24.610
idea that every other government that preceded

00:50:24.610 --> 00:50:28.409
it. Got it wrong in the following sense. Your

00:50:28.409 --> 00:50:31.550
life should not be dictated by a king or a dictator

00:50:31.550 --> 00:50:35.210
or a polar bureau or a central authority. It's

00:50:35.210 --> 00:50:36.989
the idea that you are born with inalienable rights.

00:50:37.710 --> 00:50:40.710
You should be able to choose your destiny, including

00:50:40.710 --> 00:50:44.090
what risks you want to take. Individual rights

00:50:44.090 --> 00:50:46.929
come with risks. Letting Joe Rogan say what he

00:50:46.929 --> 00:50:50.570
wants on this podcast comes with risks. Letting

00:50:50.570 --> 00:50:52.110
you practice what religion you want, assemble

00:50:52.110 --> 00:50:54.989
with who you want, especially in Austin. Very

00:50:54.989 --> 00:50:57.289
interesting time yesterday. That comes with risks,

00:50:57.309 --> 00:51:00.550
let me tell you. A lot of risks, okay? But the

00:51:00.550 --> 00:51:03.849
greater risk is always ceding that right to the

00:51:03.849 --> 00:51:05.050
government. Because once you do, you don't get

00:51:05.050 --> 00:51:07.829
it back often. And so, yes, there was that hidden

00:51:07.829 --> 00:51:09.989
stuff you talk about. And that was bad. Don't

00:51:09.989 --> 00:51:11.630
get me wrong. That was bad stuff. That was really,

00:51:11.690 --> 00:51:15.349
really bad. But the stuff they did in the open,

00:51:15.429 --> 00:51:19.070
to me, in some ways, was even worse. And I hope

00:51:19.070 --> 00:51:20.969
that there's a lesson that folks learn from that.

00:51:21.010 --> 00:51:23.059
Because let me tell you something. Even if you

00:51:23.059 --> 00:51:24.840
love every vaccine out there, you listen to this,

00:51:24.900 --> 00:51:28.019
you love every vaccine, you love every mask,

00:51:28.340 --> 00:51:31.679
right? Great. I support every American's right.

00:51:31.739 --> 00:51:33.760
You're 17, you're 18, you're totally healthy,

00:51:33.900 --> 00:51:35.699
no comorbidities, and you want to get a vaccine

00:51:35.699 --> 00:51:38.199
a day, wear 70 masks, and live in your basement

00:51:38.199 --> 00:51:40.239
in a self -imposed stay -at -home order? This

00:51:40.239 --> 00:51:42.139
is America. I support your right to do it. I'll

00:51:42.139 --> 00:51:44.239
fight for your right to do that. And you're 90,

00:51:44.440 --> 00:51:48.400
and you're a war veteran, and you have 16 comorbidities,

00:51:48.480 --> 00:51:50.360
and you want to go to the coffee shop with no

00:51:50.360 --> 00:51:52.500
vaccine and no mask? You should be free to do

00:51:52.500 --> 00:51:54.300
that, because that's America, too. That's freedom,

00:51:54.340 --> 00:51:56.420
also. Just like you can bull ride. And if you

00:51:56.420 --> 00:52:00.199
don't stand up for that right now, The day comes

00:52:00.199 --> 00:52:02.500
when there's something, a medical product you

00:52:02.500 --> 00:52:04.900
don't want, the government says you have to get

00:52:04.900 --> 00:52:08.719
because trust me, it is so much cheaper to lobby

00:52:08.719 --> 00:52:11.679
to get a medical product required than it is

00:52:11.679 --> 00:52:14.619
to market to get people to get it. Oh, they've

00:52:14.619 --> 00:52:16.480
learned that lesson. That's why there's so much

00:52:16.480 --> 00:52:18.699
lobbying to get mandates, get rid of exemptions

00:52:18.699 --> 00:52:22.199
across the country that you don't want and you

00:52:22.199 --> 00:52:24.699
can't get a job and you can't go to school and

00:52:24.699 --> 00:52:26.519
you can't leave your house. Then what good are

00:52:26.519 --> 00:52:30.070
the rest of your rights? They're useless. That's

00:52:30.070 --> 00:52:32.230
why medical liberty truly is a fundamental right.

00:52:32.230 --> 00:52:34.329
I'm off my high horse. No, it's a great high

00:52:34.329 --> 00:52:36.289
horse. That was an awesome rant. You're absolutely

00:52:36.289 --> 00:52:40.929
100 % on the money. And it's such an important

00:52:40.929 --> 00:52:45.869
thing to get out there, to get people to understand

00:52:45.869 --> 00:52:50.489
that it's such a natural human inclination to

00:52:50.489 --> 00:52:54.230
when you're in a... place of power, of control,

00:52:54.510 --> 00:52:56.510
any form of government. You want more control.

00:52:56.969 --> 00:52:59.710
And it's just natural. And what you're talking

00:52:59.710 --> 00:53:03.090
about when you lose rights. You very rarely get

00:53:03.090 --> 00:53:06.730
them back. That was so on display in California

00:53:06.730 --> 00:53:10.210
with the COVID regulations because they had everybody

00:53:10.210 --> 00:53:14.110
locked down way past where they had to. A friend

00:53:14.110 --> 00:53:17.489
of mine's brother worked in one of the COVID,

00:53:17.610 --> 00:53:20.969
some government office, when they were considering

00:53:20.969 --> 00:53:24.989
the closing of outdoor dining. And he brought

00:53:24.989 --> 00:53:29.170
up, but there's no transmission related to outdoor

00:53:29.170 --> 00:53:32.190
dining. And the woman who was in charge said,

00:53:32.329 --> 00:53:34.869
yes, but it's all about the optics. So she was

00:53:34.869 --> 00:53:38.869
willing to, with a wave of her magic wand, shut

00:53:38.869 --> 00:53:42.829
down outdoor dining for a bunch of small family

00:53:42.829 --> 00:53:46.489
businesses that were probably barely staying

00:53:46.489 --> 00:53:50.329
alive after COVID. Barely. We lost somewhere

00:53:50.329 --> 00:53:53.449
around 70 % of Los Angeles restaurants went under

00:53:53.449 --> 00:53:56.429
during COVID. That's fucking bananas. And so

00:53:56.429 --> 00:53:58.969
they finally get outdoor dining. Like, okay,

00:53:59.050 --> 00:54:01.550
we could kind of pay the bills this month. And

00:54:01.550 --> 00:54:03.449
then they shut down outdoor dining for optics.

00:54:03.969 --> 00:54:08.250
So this kind of desire to just put a foot down,

00:54:08.369 --> 00:54:11.010
control people, keep a boot on their neck, it's

00:54:11.010 --> 00:54:13.210
normal. Even if it doesn't make sense. Everybody

00:54:13.210 --> 00:54:15.699
knows that from high school. Everybody knows

00:54:15.699 --> 00:54:18.599
that from, I mean, the Stanford prison experiments.

00:54:18.940 --> 00:54:21.760
People like to control people. They enjoy it.

00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:24.619
And when they get a place like becoming the mayor

00:54:24.619 --> 00:54:27.000
or becoming the governor and being able to tell

00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:30.420
people, you got to listen to me. I've got rule.

00:54:30.500 --> 00:54:34.639
Everyone stay inside. Be scared. Fucking California.

00:54:35.239 --> 00:54:38.980
Garcetti literally had a campaign that said snitches

00:54:38.980 --> 00:54:43.280
get rewards. snitches snitching on people having

00:54:43.280 --> 00:54:45.780
more than one person over your house standing

00:54:45.780 --> 00:54:49.360
too close in the backyard you get money you get

00:54:49.360 --> 00:54:52.500
money for ratting out your neighbor This episode

00:54:52.500 --> 00:54:55.139
is brought to you by BetterHelp. In honor of

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.com slash J -R -E. That's BetterHelp .com slash

00:55:57.989 --> 00:56:01.329
J -R -E. Well, when the government gets it wrong,

00:56:01.489 --> 00:56:04.090
they always, always double down because, and

00:56:04.090 --> 00:56:06.309
that's the problem with the mandates. Once they've

00:56:06.309 --> 00:56:10.269
acquired it, they have taken a position and then

00:56:10.269 --> 00:56:12.800
to admit they're wrong. Often what government

00:56:12.800 --> 00:56:16.320
ends up saying is, oh, well, we're the CDC. If

00:56:16.320 --> 00:56:19.000
we admit we're wrong about this, that's going

00:56:19.000 --> 00:56:21.400
to hurt our ability to influence the public.

00:56:21.420 --> 00:56:24.239
And that's more important than admitting we're

00:56:24.239 --> 00:56:27.320
wrong on this or correcting course. Because our

00:56:27.320 --> 00:56:29.360
legitimacy, our ability to influence the public

00:56:29.360 --> 00:56:33.039
is so important. We have to, you know, we can't

00:56:33.039 --> 00:56:34.699
admit we're wrong. That's what Bobby's doing

00:56:34.699 --> 00:56:37.579
right now with some of these things is, you know,

00:56:37.579 --> 00:56:40.559
some of the stuff like the new autism. page on

00:56:40.559 --> 00:56:45.599
the CDC website, for example, is contrary to

00:56:45.599 --> 00:56:47.920
anything I've ever seen come out of the federal

00:56:47.920 --> 00:56:50.820
health authorities to date. But yes, it's disturbing.

00:56:50.980 --> 00:56:55.519
And it's why government should, no public health

00:56:55.519 --> 00:56:58.500
authority should ever be able to tell you and

00:56:58.500 --> 00:56:59.900
infringe on your rights. They should be able

00:56:59.900 --> 00:57:03.780
to recommend, recommend like crazy, but never

00:57:03.780 --> 00:57:07.460
do it. Because that is the normal course of how

00:57:07.460 --> 00:57:13.900
tyranny dictators, bullies, thugs operate. First,

00:57:14.079 --> 00:57:16.980
they tell you what to do. You don't listen, apply

00:57:16.980 --> 00:57:20.579
a little pressure. You don't listen, then they

00:57:20.579 --> 00:57:23.260
mandate. You still don't listen, they censor

00:57:23.260 --> 00:57:26.739
you. Still, take away more of your rights. That

00:57:26.739 --> 00:57:28.380
is the normal progression throughout history,

00:57:28.519 --> 00:57:30.239
and we saw it happen in front of our eyes, which

00:57:30.239 --> 00:57:33.500
is why it should be a line in the sand. Federal

00:57:33.500 --> 00:57:35.300
health authorities, state health authorities

00:57:35.300 --> 00:57:38.099
should be able to recommend and encourage, never

00:57:38.099 --> 00:57:41.880
mandate. Ever. Fauci literally expressed it that

00:57:41.880 --> 00:57:44.059
way. I'm sure you've heard that recording of

00:57:44.059 --> 00:57:47.559
him. Once people realize they can't go to work,

00:57:47.619 --> 00:57:50.659
they'll drop their ideological bullshit and they'll

00:57:50.659 --> 00:57:55.239
get vaccinated. He's essentially telling them,

00:57:55.320 --> 00:57:58.320
you're going to make people's life hell and they'll

00:57:58.320 --> 00:58:01.159
do what you want them to do. Not they will have

00:58:01.159 --> 00:58:03.500
free will, they will have the ability to choose.

00:58:03.860 --> 00:58:07.960
No, no, no. You will make them do what you want.

00:58:08.139 --> 00:58:10.480
Yeah. Who wants a government that persuades you

00:58:10.480 --> 00:58:12.940
on the merits? Forget that. But imagine that

00:58:12.940 --> 00:58:16.059
that is something that someone said out loud.

00:58:16.340 --> 00:58:21.460
But that, I don't think that what Fauci was saying

00:58:21.460 --> 00:58:25.119
is anything. Fauci, everything in my view that

00:58:25.119 --> 00:58:28.760
you saw during COVID is not like some giant leap.

00:58:29.490 --> 00:58:33.050
into some new territory. To me, it's just another

00:58:33.050 --> 00:58:35.769
natural step in progression from where we've

00:58:35.769 --> 00:58:39.190
gone over the last 40 years with vaccines. Fauci's

00:58:39.190 --> 00:58:40.769
saying that is no different than school mandates

00:58:40.769 --> 00:58:45.030
right now to get children. Most states have,

00:58:45.170 --> 00:58:47.349
45 states have basically checked the box exemption

00:58:47.349 --> 00:58:49.389
to send your kids to school. There's about five

00:58:49.389 --> 00:58:53.190
that don't. They're trying to eliminate exemptions,

00:58:53.230 --> 00:58:57.010
right? Clearly, they're able to persuade most

00:58:57.010 --> 00:59:00.090
parents on the merits. But yet they can't take

00:59:00.090 --> 00:59:01.929
it. They can't take that. A two, three, four

00:59:01.929 --> 00:59:04.969
percent just will not take these products. And

00:59:04.969 --> 00:59:07.389
I, you know, and I'll tell you about most of

00:59:07.389 --> 00:59:09.050
these folks are they're the folks who really

00:59:09.050 --> 00:59:13.110
need the exemptions because, you know, most people

00:59:13.110 --> 00:59:15.110
who don't choose to take childhood vaccines,

00:59:15.289 --> 00:59:17.130
they don't typically just wake up and decide

00:59:17.130 --> 00:59:20.130
to do that for fun. Not many people wake up one

00:59:20.130 --> 00:59:21.170
day and go, you know, I'm going to do today.

00:59:22.690 --> 00:59:24.829
I'm going to take a socially ostracizing position.

00:59:25.050 --> 00:59:26.550
I might get my kids kicked out of school, me

00:59:26.550 --> 00:59:28.329
thrown out of my job. My friends call me an anti

00:59:28.329 --> 00:59:32.489
this and anti that. You know, you name it. All

00:59:32.489 --> 00:59:34.570
the horribles that come with not vaccinating.

00:59:34.690 --> 00:59:38.050
No, most people don't vaccinate. Don't vaccinate

00:59:38.050 --> 00:59:41.710
because they've had a very, very personal or

00:59:41.710 --> 00:59:44.170
negative experience with these products. They

00:59:44.170 --> 00:59:45.409
are one of their kids or one of their family

00:59:45.409 --> 00:59:47.289
members or they've learned stuff they cannot

00:59:47.289 --> 00:59:49.809
learn about them. OK, they were usually a very

00:59:49.809 --> 00:59:53.650
good reason not to. And yet, as you saw during

00:59:53.650 --> 00:59:59.789
COVID, it's not about, in many respects, the

00:59:59.789 --> 01:00:03.610
medicine to the examples you gave. It's about

01:00:03.610 --> 01:00:07.090
they cannot stand that somebody is not agreeing

01:00:07.090 --> 01:00:10.530
with their beliefs. They cannot extend the exceptions.

01:00:10.670 --> 01:00:13.409
Those who stand up say, no, I've come to a different

01:00:13.409 --> 01:00:16.429
medical conclusion. They can't let that exist.

01:00:16.769 --> 01:00:21.949
Right. That is what it is. And it happens. for

01:00:21.949 --> 01:00:25.170
people regardless of their religious status.

01:00:25.650 --> 01:00:29.590
It's a weird thing. It is like a religion, which

01:00:29.590 --> 01:00:31.429
is why I'm so glad you wrote your book that way

01:00:31.429 --> 01:00:33.809
because I think there's these natural patterns

01:00:33.809 --> 01:00:40.889
of groupthink and of just complying that people

01:00:40.889 --> 01:00:44.119
automatically fall into. It's very easy. That's

01:00:44.119 --> 01:00:46.360
why people can get people to join cults. That's

01:00:46.360 --> 01:00:49.659
why people are a part of weird Christian sects.

01:00:49.659 --> 01:00:52.880
Like, wait, what do you guys do? Huh? Who's the

01:00:52.880 --> 01:00:54.920
guy? Who's the head guy? This guy? And he gets

01:00:54.920 --> 01:00:58.949
to marry everybody? What? Okay. Well, that's

01:00:58.949 --> 01:01:00.969
what happened. It's normal. It's a normal thing.

01:01:01.210 --> 01:01:04.429
And if you scale it outward, it goes to a lot

01:01:04.429 --> 01:01:05.869
of stuff. There's a lot of stuff that people

01:01:05.869 --> 01:01:08.090
just have these like climate changes of religion

01:01:08.090 --> 01:01:10.409
right now. Like there's certain people that if

01:01:10.409 --> 01:01:15.789
you confront them with like the actual. The ones

01:01:15.789 --> 01:01:17.889
that are willing to question the narrative that

01:01:17.889 --> 01:01:19.969
are legitimate client scientists, they'll tell

01:01:19.969 --> 01:01:23.010
you, like, it is so complicated to figure out

01:01:23.010 --> 01:01:26.409
what is causing the changes in the Earth's climate,

01:01:26.550 --> 01:01:29.610
warmth and cold, and the fact that it's never

01:01:29.610 --> 01:01:32.489
been static, ever, in human history, never before

01:01:32.489 --> 01:01:35.349
humans, never billions of years. It's done this

01:01:35.349 --> 01:01:37.789
crazy thing. It involves the precession of the

01:01:37.789 --> 01:01:41.130
equinoxes and the fucking polar vortex. And then

01:01:41.130 --> 01:01:45.110
also stuff we burn. That too. But like what percentage

01:01:45.110 --> 01:01:47.329
is what? But it doesn't matter. You can't have

01:01:47.329 --> 01:01:49.989
that conversation. It's like you questioning,

01:01:50.090 --> 01:01:53.389
you know, whatever messiah this person believes

01:01:53.389 --> 01:01:56.570
in. They'll just lock down and climate change

01:01:56.570 --> 01:01:59.789
is this. Not one climate change prediction of

01:01:59.789 --> 01:02:02.610
doom has been accurate. Not one. Not even in

01:02:02.610 --> 01:02:05.989
the ballpark. You remember the fucking Al Gore

01:02:05.989 --> 01:02:07.889
movie? Yeah. We're supposed to be dead. We're

01:02:07.889 --> 01:02:11.280
out. Meanwhile, they're all buying fucking oceanfront

01:02:11.280 --> 01:02:15.099
houses in Maui. You know, get out of here. Shut

01:02:15.099 --> 01:02:17.659
the fuck up. This is another thing. This is another

01:02:17.659 --> 01:02:19.440
thing. Like, yeah, we shouldn't pollute. Yeah,

01:02:19.539 --> 01:02:21.199
we shouldn't release particulates in the atmosphere.

01:02:21.360 --> 01:02:23.480
Yeah, we should have clean energy. Yeah, but

01:02:23.480 --> 01:02:26.260
also, you guys are crooks. You guys are a bunch

01:02:26.260 --> 01:02:28.860
of crooks that are making money off of this idea

01:02:28.860 --> 01:02:31.139
that you're forcing down everybody's throat,

01:02:31.260 --> 01:02:33.889
that everybody's got a green new deal. Everybody's

01:02:33.889 --> 01:02:35.909
got to do renewable, this renewable. And then

01:02:35.909 --> 01:02:38.469
who's got money invested in all this stuff? A

01:02:38.469 --> 01:02:40.510
bunch of people who are pushing it. And it's

01:02:40.510 --> 01:02:43.389
a fucking scam. Just like so many of these things

01:02:43.389 --> 01:02:46.030
are fucking scams. Doesn't mean we shouldn't

01:02:46.030 --> 01:02:48.610
be aware of the damage that we're doing to the

01:02:48.610 --> 01:02:51.389
earth. We should probably stop overfishing the

01:02:51.389 --> 01:02:54.250
ocean. We should probably stop dumping shit into

01:02:54.250 --> 01:02:56.409
the rivers of 100 percent. You know who used

01:02:56.409 --> 01:03:01.019
to go to court for that? Bobby. RFK Jr. He fucking

01:03:01.019 --> 01:03:04.559
cranks the guy who is like cleaning up the East

01:03:04.559 --> 01:03:08.119
River. That's Bobby Kennedy Jr. He was the guy.

01:03:08.760 --> 01:03:12.119
And an easy way to identify that somebody is

01:03:12.119 --> 01:03:14.420
not really coming at you with science and they're

01:03:14.420 --> 01:03:17.599
coming at you with belief, religion. Yes. Is

01:03:17.599 --> 01:03:21.199
exactly what you just said, which is they're

01:03:21.199 --> 01:03:23.460
not willing to debate. They're not willing to

01:03:23.460 --> 01:03:25.579
discuss it. They're not willing to engage because.

01:03:26.460 --> 01:03:28.900
That is antithetical to the scientific method.

01:03:29.099 --> 01:03:31.800
The whole idea is it's never settled. The whole

01:03:31.800 --> 01:03:35.219
idea is you push the fringes, you push new theories,

01:03:35.320 --> 01:03:37.599
you push new ideas. Where would science be if

01:03:37.599 --> 01:03:39.840
you said this is it? Of course, that is the whole

01:03:39.840 --> 01:03:43.880
notion of it, dispassionately looking at it over

01:03:43.880 --> 01:03:46.860
and over and over and seeing what more you can

01:03:46.860 --> 01:03:48.900
learn. And the moment somebody says, no, we need

01:03:48.900 --> 01:03:51.079
to stop. You can't discuss, you can't debate

01:03:51.079 --> 01:03:52.639
that. That's when you know you're dealing with

01:03:52.639 --> 01:03:54.539
a religion, not science. And when I've talked

01:03:54.539 --> 01:03:58.000
to certain scientists in different fields that

01:03:58.000 --> 01:04:01.059
feel very constricted by the academic environment,

01:04:01.320 --> 01:04:03.179
one of the things that they point to is that

01:04:03.179 --> 01:04:05.739
the groupthink involved in that is just like

01:04:05.739 --> 01:04:08.019
the groupthink involved in everything, in left

01:04:08.019 --> 01:04:10.400
-wing politics, whatever it is. Just figure out

01:04:10.400 --> 01:04:12.449
whatever it is, right -wing politics. Groupthink

01:04:12.449 --> 01:04:17.150
in academia is also hierarchical. There's tiers.

01:04:17.469 --> 01:04:20.349
And you got to agree with everybody that's above

01:04:20.349 --> 01:04:22.869
you. You want to get tenure. You want to progress.

01:04:23.110 --> 01:04:25.230
You want to get grants. It's got to be – you

01:04:25.230 --> 01:04:27.849
guys got to be in line on all this shit. And

01:04:27.849 --> 01:04:29.030
he's like – and anybody who thinks out of the

01:04:29.030 --> 01:04:31.989
box is ruthlessly attacked. And even when they

01:04:31.989 --> 01:04:35.369
turn out to be correct, no one apologizes. They

01:04:35.369 --> 01:04:38.489
reluctantly agree that the person was initially

01:04:38.489 --> 01:04:41.530
correct. But they'll destroy their career. if

01:04:41.530 --> 01:04:44.150
they can. He's like, the pissing matches are

01:04:44.150 --> 01:04:46.809
horrifying. And these are the people that are

01:04:46.809 --> 01:04:49.690
in charge of telling you what's real in the world.

01:04:49.829 --> 01:04:54.590
They're just like everybody else. They have ego

01:04:54.590 --> 01:04:57.650
and there's a fucking social scramble going on

01:04:57.650 --> 01:05:00.610
at all times and people are playing Succession

01:05:00.610 --> 01:05:03.860
and Game of Thrones. It's like... The reality

01:05:03.860 --> 01:05:07.039
is not what you're being told in the news. What

01:05:07.039 --> 01:05:08.920
you're being told in the news is a narrative.

01:05:09.099 --> 01:05:12.179
And when the news has a giant chunk of their

01:05:12.179 --> 01:05:14.840
money for advertising, it's paid by pharmaceutical

01:05:14.840 --> 01:05:17.860
drug companies. And they never criticize me like

01:05:17.860 --> 01:05:22.360
this is wild. Like this is wild that this this

01:05:22.360 --> 01:05:25.599
is America in 2026. And the only way you can

01:05:25.599 --> 01:05:28.099
find out what's kind of real is on the Internet.

01:05:29.960 --> 01:05:37.619
Yes. And also, when it comes to censorship, if

01:05:37.619 --> 01:05:40.280
I said some totally crazy, stupid thing about

01:05:40.280 --> 01:05:43.239
you that was totally untrue, ignore it. If I

01:05:43.239 --> 01:05:45.179
said it by government, they ignore it. When do

01:05:45.179 --> 01:05:47.980
they censor? They censor when it's true because

01:05:47.980 --> 01:05:50.159
that's when they're scared. Right. If you start

01:05:50.159 --> 01:05:51.659
talking about the government being lizard people,

01:05:52.159 --> 01:05:54.039
nobody's going to— Nobody cares. Nobody comes

01:05:54.039 --> 01:05:56.300
for you. They're all shapeshifters. Nobody cares.

01:05:56.619 --> 01:05:59.119
But when you start talking about something that's

01:05:59.119 --> 01:06:03.550
true— That's when it hurts. That's what they

01:06:03.550 --> 01:06:05.269
need to suppress. You think they need to suppress

01:06:05.269 --> 01:06:08.309
stuff about, I don't know, a certain island with

01:06:08.309 --> 01:06:12.570
death? If it's not true, no. But if it is true,

01:06:12.769 --> 01:06:15.070
that's when it gets scary. And that's when you

01:06:15.070 --> 01:06:17.849
need suppression. And also, I'll note, I went

01:06:17.849 --> 01:06:21.469
to Berkeley for law school. So I'm familiar with

01:06:21.469 --> 01:06:22.650
a little bit of what you were just talking about.

01:06:22.670 --> 01:06:24.969
And that experience, too. Even though it was

01:06:24.969 --> 01:06:27.789
over two decades ago, it was going strong back

01:06:27.789 --> 01:06:29.590
then. It was going strong back then, but I feel

01:06:29.590 --> 01:06:31.710
like it was much more reasonable. Like, I used

01:06:31.710 --> 01:06:34.230
to love San Francisco back then. It was a great

01:06:34.230 --> 01:06:36.789
town to visit. They were smart. They were cool.

01:06:36.969 --> 01:06:39.670
They were laid back. People liked to drink. But

01:06:39.670 --> 01:06:42.150
they were fun. They always seemed like a smarter

01:06:42.150 --> 01:06:45.210
L .A. that got out of show business. San Francisco,

01:06:45.590 --> 01:06:48.250
Berkeley, the university were two different things.

01:06:48.289 --> 01:06:51.210
I completely agree. And even in, I mean, let's

01:06:51.210 --> 01:06:53.030
throw outside the bubble of Berkeley from 20

01:06:53.030 --> 01:06:56.469
years ago. Look back over 20 years ago. Who was

01:06:56.469 --> 01:06:59.570
fighting for civil individual rights? It was

01:06:59.570 --> 01:07:04.090
the left. ACLU. Think about Skokie, Illinois,

01:07:04.389 --> 01:07:07.110
right? Fighting for the neo -Nazis to be able

01:07:07.110 --> 01:07:09.449
to march through a Jewish town to say what they

01:07:09.449 --> 01:07:11.650
want. Who fought that case? Who protected their

01:07:11.650 --> 01:07:15.750
right to say that? Democrat. ACLU. Liberal lawyers.

01:07:16.300 --> 01:07:19.019
and liberal judges, and they said protecting

01:07:19.019 --> 01:07:21.699
their right to say the things they're saying

01:07:21.699 --> 01:07:23.980
is despicable, as horrible as we might find it,

01:07:24.019 --> 01:07:25.719
protects all our right to free speech. Could

01:07:25.719 --> 01:07:28.019
you imagine those same folks today bringing that

01:07:28.019 --> 01:07:30.920
case and deciding that way? No way. No way. And

01:07:30.920 --> 01:07:33.820
what's stunning is that if you asked anybody

01:07:33.820 --> 01:07:37.460
alive then, if you had ultimate access to information,

01:07:37.739 --> 01:07:40.820
literally you could pick up your phone and ask

01:07:40.820 --> 01:07:43.940
it any question about anything and get information

01:07:43.940 --> 01:07:48.170
instantaneously. Would people be more or less

01:07:48.170 --> 01:07:52.969
informed? You would say, well, certainly they'll

01:07:52.969 --> 01:07:55.969
be more informed. So there'll be more understanding

01:07:55.969 --> 01:07:58.030
of the value of free speech and they'll know

01:07:58.030 --> 01:08:00.070
more about that ruling and what a brave stance

01:08:00.070 --> 01:08:02.929
they took to allow the KKK to march and how it

01:08:02.929 --> 01:08:05.110
just shows intellectual superiority. The way

01:08:05.110 --> 01:08:08.369
to beat a bad idea is not to silence it, is to

01:08:08.369 --> 01:08:11.449
argue it with a much better idea. That you would

01:08:11.449 --> 01:08:14.130
think by 2026, oh, they'll be way better. This

01:08:14.130 --> 01:08:16.270
will be a super advanced society of flying cars.

01:08:16.850 --> 01:08:21.729
No, no, no. It's more ideologically captured,

01:08:21.850 --> 01:08:24.869
more wrapped up in the algorithm, which I think

01:08:24.869 --> 01:08:29.869
is probably at least 50 percent fake. 50 percent

01:08:29.869 --> 01:08:32.609
is a bunch of bots tweeting a bunch of shit.

01:08:32.909 --> 01:08:34.829
That's, you know, they don't even believe they're

01:08:34.829 --> 01:08:36.470
just trying to rile people up and stir people

01:08:36.470 --> 01:08:39.449
up and and push certain narratives. And then

01:08:39.449 --> 01:08:41.829
people are locked into it 12 hours a day. So

01:08:41.829 --> 01:08:44.090
they're really crazy. And no one's considering

01:08:44.090 --> 01:08:47.130
things like the important. Well, let's go back

01:08:47.130 --> 01:08:49.270
to old cases and let's look at why they did that.

01:08:49.409 --> 01:08:50.689
And I was like, no, no, no. Everybody's like

01:08:50.689 --> 01:08:52.630
captured with whatever the fuck is on TikTok

01:08:52.630 --> 01:08:55.390
today. What's the latest stupid thing you're

01:08:55.390 --> 01:08:57.050
supposed to be paying attention to? And the fact

01:08:57.050 --> 01:09:03.170
that now we're at war. Right. OK, great. Social

01:09:03.170 --> 01:09:05.529
media and the scrolling through those videos,

01:09:05.630 --> 01:09:07.270
which is what you're describing, I think, is

01:09:07.270 --> 01:09:09.770
so troubling. First of all, my understanding

01:09:09.770 --> 01:09:12.609
is that they just show you stuff that confirms

01:09:12.609 --> 01:09:14.109
what you already believe because that's what

01:09:14.109 --> 01:09:15.869
you want to see. You want to see the things that

01:09:15.869 --> 01:09:17.890
you already agree with. So you just get this

01:09:17.890 --> 01:09:20.789
incredible confirmation bias that happens, which

01:09:20.789 --> 01:09:24.369
is antithetical to thinking critically, to really

01:09:24.369 --> 01:09:26.510
opening your mind to it. And then you end up...

01:09:26.880 --> 01:09:29.880
You know, without because without actually understanding

01:09:29.880 --> 01:09:32.500
both sides of an argument without really understanding

01:09:32.500 --> 01:09:34.079
it. I mean, look, I understand the stuff about

01:09:34.079 --> 01:09:36.960
vaccines that I know which one stop transmission.

01:09:37.380 --> 01:09:40.000
Right. And I know which ones don't. Right. And

01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:41.819
I don't have to live in the world of believing,

01:09:42.000 --> 01:09:44.920
for example, they all do. I know how much death

01:09:44.920 --> 01:09:47.760
there was before each vaccine. And I know. So

01:09:47.760 --> 01:09:50.020
I don't have to say didn't ever save any life.

01:09:50.140 --> 01:09:52.119
And I don't have to say millions would die. I

01:09:52.119 --> 01:09:56.289
just the data is the data. Right. But if all

01:09:56.289 --> 01:09:58.630
you're getting is one viewpoint all the time,

01:09:58.729 --> 01:10:01.390
you get this terrible confirmation bias. And

01:10:01.390 --> 01:10:03.670
did you see this recent study that I did? I just

01:10:03.670 --> 01:10:06.329
read the abstract, so I didn't delve into it.

01:10:06.409 --> 01:10:10.069
But apparently watching social media reduces

01:10:10.069 --> 01:10:13.430
your IQ over time, just doing all of that scrolling.

01:10:13.630 --> 01:10:16.630
That's really scary when you think about our

01:10:16.630 --> 01:10:18.930
current generation. Imagine if it could make

01:10:18.930 --> 01:10:20.569
you smarter. How many more people would be interested

01:10:20.569 --> 01:10:23.170
in doing it? Right? Like if there was a thing,

01:10:23.189 --> 01:10:24.550
if you could just stare at your phone for a few

01:10:24.550 --> 01:10:26.250
hours a day and you get significantly smarter,

01:10:26.329 --> 01:10:29.569
it's a 10 point jump in IQ. You know, my wife

01:10:29.569 --> 01:10:31.550
calls our wifi at our house. If you find the

01:10:31.550 --> 01:10:33.970
wifi, it's called read a book. I'm not kidding.

01:10:34.369 --> 01:10:37.050
That's funny. That's funny. And then you hear

01:10:37.050 --> 01:10:38.670
things like you shouldn't have Wi -Fi in your

01:10:38.670 --> 01:10:40.770
house because all the signals flying around are

01:10:40.770 --> 01:10:43.890
bad for you. Like, how bad? Are you sure? Like,

01:10:43.909 --> 01:10:45.750
what is that? Like, how long have we been doing

01:10:45.750 --> 01:10:48.750
the Wi -Fi thing? A decade, two decades, three

01:10:48.750 --> 01:10:51.350
decades? I mean, in the course of the length

01:10:51.350 --> 01:10:53.329
of humanity, that's not very long. That's not

01:10:53.329 --> 01:10:55.449
very long. I mean, look. I hope Wi -Fi is not

01:10:55.449 --> 01:10:57.189
killing us. I really do. It's so convenient.

01:10:57.890 --> 01:11:01.090
Look at most. Listen, obviously, most things

01:11:01.090 --> 01:11:04.399
that will just kill you get identified. Right.

01:11:04.539 --> 01:11:06.220
It's not the things that kill you immediately

01:11:06.220 --> 01:11:08.939
that are a problem, typically, because they killed

01:11:08.939 --> 01:11:11.960
you, and so you know. It's the things that cause

01:11:11.960 --> 01:11:15.920
slow issues, ongoing issues. I mean, we know

01:11:15.920 --> 01:11:18.640
folks who work on high power lines have far higher

01:11:18.640 --> 01:11:20.699
rates of cancer. Study after study reflects that,

01:11:20.779 --> 01:11:24.000
for example. Which makes sense. I mean, if the

01:11:24.000 --> 01:11:27.760
iPod's bad for you, you know what I mean? If

01:11:27.760 --> 01:11:30.760
AirPods are bad in your ears, imagine being next

01:11:30.760 --> 01:11:32.539
to those power lines. What does that do to you?

01:11:33.340 --> 01:11:34.979
I don't want to go down this rabbit hole because

01:11:34.979 --> 01:11:37.819
it's not my area per se, but for the whole length

01:11:37.819 --> 01:11:41.600
of humanity, right, when you think of the spectrum,

01:11:42.000 --> 01:11:44.899
right, we were pretty much only exposed to natural

01:11:44.899 --> 01:11:47.399
light, which is a very narrow light, narrow band

01:11:47.399 --> 01:11:50.359
of the spectrum, okay? Right? When you think

01:11:50.359 --> 01:11:53.270
of waves. So as you go down on the left side

01:11:53.270 --> 01:11:55.289
of the spectrum, the waves get longer, like AM

01:11:55.289 --> 01:11:59.630
raves really long, FM raves, microwaves, natural

01:11:59.630 --> 01:12:01.390
light. And then above that, you get X -rays,

01:12:01.470 --> 01:12:03.970
cosmic rays. And anything above natural light,

01:12:04.010 --> 01:12:05.529
they say, oh, it's really bad. That's just going

01:12:05.529 --> 01:12:08.130
to mess you up. And stuff below natural light,

01:12:08.189 --> 01:12:11.069
they say, well, as long as it doesn't heat up

01:12:11.069 --> 01:12:12.909
your cells, that's typically the standard our

01:12:12.909 --> 01:12:16.010
government uses, it's safe. So as long as it's

01:12:16.010 --> 01:12:18.819
not heating your cell. But that's not... That's

01:12:18.819 --> 01:12:21.319
a very old standard, but it's still the one in

01:12:21.319 --> 01:12:25.539
effect today. So in any event, when you think

01:12:25.539 --> 01:12:28.119
about microwaves, they should stay away from

01:12:28.119 --> 01:12:31.319
even those below natural light. There's, you

01:12:31.319 --> 01:12:34.640
know, what is the cumulative effect of being

01:12:34.640 --> 01:12:36.779
if you put your Wi -Fi around on your bed every

01:12:36.779 --> 01:12:39.250
night? Your whole life. What is the effect? There

01:12:39.250 --> 01:12:40.970
are numerous studies that show that it does have

01:12:40.970 --> 01:12:43.909
certain effects. But anyway, it's not worth going

01:12:43.909 --> 01:12:45.909
down that road. But yeah. But it might just be

01:12:45.909 --> 01:12:49.350
minor or it might be cumulative, right? Yeah.

01:12:49.449 --> 01:12:51.649
And then how about cell phone signals? You can't

01:12:51.649 --> 01:12:54.390
even stop those. They're around you all the time.

01:12:55.069 --> 01:12:57.470
Yeah. I mean, if you can FaceTime someone in

01:12:57.470 --> 01:12:59.270
New Zealand right now from your phone, clearly

01:12:59.270 --> 01:13:01.569
something's going on in the air. I'll put it

01:13:01.569 --> 01:13:04.510
this way. Every environmental insult has the

01:13:04.510 --> 01:13:06.369
potential to cause some kind of dysregulation

01:13:06.369 --> 01:13:08.949
in your body. whether it's microplastics, whether

01:13:08.949 --> 01:13:12.689
it's you name it, okay? And the precautionary

01:13:12.689 --> 01:13:14.729
principle would indicate that until you know

01:13:14.729 --> 01:13:17.510
it's safe, the onus is on those who want to expose

01:13:17.510 --> 01:13:20.609
you to it to prove to you it is, right? It shouldn't

01:13:20.609 --> 01:13:22.930
be the other way around. I don't think anybody

01:13:22.930 --> 01:13:25.149
has to prove to you that Wi -Fi is not safe to

01:13:25.149 --> 01:13:26.750
say, you know what, based on the precautionary

01:13:26.750 --> 01:13:28.850
principle, I'm just going to turn off the Wi

01:13:28.850 --> 01:13:30.930
-Fi every night in my house because I don't know.

01:13:31.130 --> 01:13:34.390
Like that doesn't seem unreasonable to me because

01:13:34.390 --> 01:13:37.319
humans have been exposed to it forever. I've

01:13:37.319 --> 01:13:39.220
not seen the studies that validate that it doesn't

01:13:39.220 --> 01:13:42.979
cause an issue or large, robust studies. But

01:13:42.979 --> 01:13:47.819
obviously, I think what I just said, some people

01:13:47.819 --> 01:13:49.659
might hear and go, well, that sounds crazy. But

01:13:49.659 --> 01:13:53.560
why? Why would it be crazy? If we found out that

01:13:53.560 --> 01:13:55.560
there's a particular frequency that's bad for

01:13:55.560 --> 01:13:57.340
your memory or bad for your brain and that we're

01:13:57.340 --> 01:14:00.020
using it to broadcast something, that completely

01:14:00.020 --> 01:14:02.680
makes sense. Yeah, except that I never think

01:14:02.680 --> 01:14:06.630
about harms the way you just said it. That would

01:14:06.630 --> 01:14:08.989
indicate that we have to find out what harms

01:14:08.989 --> 01:14:14.029
it causes. To me, when I go into a car dealership,

01:14:14.029 --> 01:14:17.909
for example, I walk in and the salesman says,

01:14:17.989 --> 01:14:22.130
all right, this car. And I say, well, is it safe?

01:14:22.390 --> 01:14:25.210
And the car dealer says to me, prove to me it's

01:14:25.210 --> 01:14:28.170
not safe. And I said, well, and I said, well,

01:14:28.229 --> 01:14:30.489
what do you, what do you, what do you mean? You

01:14:30.489 --> 01:14:33.010
can't prove it. You got to take this car. By

01:14:33.010 --> 01:14:34.590
the way, that's how vaccines work. That's how

01:14:34.590 --> 01:14:37.670
I lie. And that is the, that is become a little

01:14:37.670 --> 01:14:40.369
bit of the, depending on the, mostly for vaccines,

01:14:40.449 --> 01:14:41.909
but a little bit for some of these other products

01:14:41.909 --> 01:14:43.770
where it's like, you got to prove it's not safe.

01:14:43.810 --> 01:14:45.609
No, I don't have to prove it's not safe. I'm

01:14:45.609 --> 01:14:47.229
not buying this car. You prove to me it's no,

01:14:47.409 --> 01:14:50.350
you prove to me this vaccine causes harm or you

01:14:50.350 --> 01:14:53.779
better take it. That's the way it's approached.

01:14:53.859 --> 01:14:57.119
A little bit like that Wi -Fi and with 5G and

01:14:57.119 --> 01:14:59.220
the LTE and all that stuff, it's almost like

01:14:59.220 --> 01:15:02.000
you proved to me that doing this all day is going

01:15:02.000 --> 01:15:03.880
to cause brain cancer or else you're a kook.

01:15:04.140 --> 01:15:05.880
No, why don't you show me the study shows it

01:15:05.880 --> 01:15:08.000
doesn't do that? That's the way it should work

01:15:08.000 --> 01:15:09.939
with products and product safety. That makes

01:15:09.939 --> 01:15:14.640
sense. That's very reasonable. Again, I don't

01:15:14.640 --> 01:15:16.840
know. I'm not saying that it does. But what I'm

01:15:16.840 --> 01:15:19.539
saying is there's been things that human beings...

01:15:19.770 --> 01:15:21.890
And they found it was really bad for you. We've

01:15:21.890 --> 01:15:23.850
talked about it a few times, but those ladies,

01:15:23.930 --> 01:15:27.130
they used to test the x -ray machines with their

01:15:27.130 --> 01:15:30.770
hands. And no one told them. No one told them

01:15:30.770 --> 01:15:33.010
that x -rays can give you cancer and fuck you

01:15:33.010 --> 01:15:35.630
up. And these poor ladies, every day when they

01:15:35.630 --> 01:15:37.649
would show up at the medical office, they would

01:15:37.649 --> 01:15:39.510
put their hand in the x -ray machine to make

01:15:39.510 --> 01:15:41.619
sure it worked. And then you see their hands

01:15:41.619 --> 01:15:43.800
next to each other. It's horrifying. They've

01:15:43.800 --> 01:15:46.800
got horrible lesions on their hands. It's really

01:15:46.800 --> 01:15:48.899
creepy. They x -rayed pregnant women until the

01:15:48.899 --> 01:15:52.439
70s. Until the 70s, they were x -raying pregnant

01:15:52.439 --> 01:15:54.619
women. Not with the x -rays of today that are

01:15:54.619 --> 01:15:57.060
far less radiation exposure. The x -rays of the

01:15:57.060 --> 01:16:00.359
70s, which is a lot. They gave the, I believe,

01:16:00.439 --> 01:16:03.520
the Nobel Prize. I'm pretty sure about this,

01:16:03.600 --> 01:16:06.000
for the lobotomy. Yeah. If I'm not mistaken.

01:16:06.199 --> 01:16:08.130
I think they did. I think you're right. I think

01:16:08.130 --> 01:16:10.829
they did. Find that out. Jamie, put that into

01:16:10.829 --> 01:16:13.550
our sponsor perplexity. The Nobel Prize, Peter

01:16:13.550 --> 01:16:15.670
Berg told me about the origins of it. And I was

01:16:15.670 --> 01:16:20.140
like, wait. What? It was a guy who made dynamite.

01:16:20.140 --> 01:16:23.100
And there was a false story about his death.

01:16:23.260 --> 01:16:26.020
And in the newspaper, they called him the merchant

01:16:26.020 --> 01:16:28.579
of death. And he realized it. And he was like,

01:16:28.659 --> 01:16:32.159
oh, shit, I got to change my PR. I got to change

01:16:32.159 --> 01:16:34.479
my image. And so he came up with the Nobel Prize.

01:16:34.659 --> 01:16:38.649
He started awarding this prestigious prize. Instead

01:16:38.649 --> 01:16:41.050
of him being connected with blowing people up

01:16:41.050 --> 01:16:44.829
with dynamite, he became connected with the most

01:16:44.829 --> 01:16:48.189
prestigious prize and all of medicine and all

01:16:48.189 --> 01:16:52.279
of... Government and the peace, the Nobel Peace

01:16:52.279 --> 01:16:55.260
Prize. It's pretty crazy. It's amazing when you

01:16:55.260 --> 01:16:58.880
have money how you can influence the world to

01:16:58.880 --> 01:17:01.319
think certain things about, in his instance,

01:17:01.359 --> 01:17:04.359
him, and other certain products. Exactly. Absolutely.

01:17:04.819 --> 01:17:07.000
But what's really stunning is you're also allowed

01:17:07.000 --> 01:17:08.960
to influence the people that actually deliver

01:17:08.960 --> 01:17:12.720
the news, which is, you know, that's the crazy

01:17:12.720 --> 01:17:14.899
one. Like, Cali Means talked about that. Like,

01:17:14.979 --> 01:17:18.689
their advertising. Not because they want to sell

01:17:18.689 --> 01:17:20.829
their products with the advertisement that they're

01:17:20.829 --> 01:17:22.350
putting on the air. They're doing that, too.

01:17:22.409 --> 01:17:25.630
But they're also ensuring that this steady stream

01:17:25.630 --> 01:17:28.430
of revenue that's going to these networks, they

01:17:28.430 --> 01:17:34.149
won't be opening up any lines of investigation

01:17:34.149 --> 01:17:37.069
into the vaccine injuries. Like, that's not going

01:17:37.069 --> 01:17:39.310
to happen. You're not going to see a giant CNN

01:17:39.310 --> 01:17:42.289
piece about COVID -19 vaccine injuries. It's

01:17:42.289 --> 01:17:45.260
not happening. It's not happening. You're not

01:17:45.260 --> 01:17:47.000
going to hear much about anything. It has to

01:17:47.000 --> 01:17:50.380
be a big fucking story where they have to say

01:17:50.380 --> 01:17:52.579
it or they just mention a judgment real quick

01:17:52.579 --> 01:17:58.000
and then move on. Moving on. The Rasmussen poll,

01:17:58.340 --> 01:18:00.399
I don't know if you remember this one, found

01:18:00.399 --> 01:18:03.619
that I believe one in four, and I think that's

01:18:03.619 --> 01:18:06.539
right, but I'm not sure, 100%, people said they

01:18:06.539 --> 01:18:09.039
believe they knew somebody that died of COVID

01:18:09.039 --> 01:18:11.399
vaccine or knew somebody that died of COVID vaccine.

01:18:11.560 --> 01:18:14.449
When you have that many people with that. With

01:18:14.449 --> 01:18:18.489
that lived experience, and yet the mainstream

01:18:18.489 --> 01:18:20.949
media, as you just said, was still able to continue

01:18:20.949 --> 01:18:23.130
to push the narrative around COVID vaccines the

01:18:23.130 --> 01:18:28.029
way they did at the Nobel Prize. Wow. Nobel Prize

01:18:28.029 --> 01:18:31.890
-related lobotomy refers to a 1949 Nobel Prize

01:18:31.890 --> 01:18:34.989
in Physiology or Medicine awarded to Antonio

01:18:34.989 --> 01:18:38.189
Agos Moniz, a Portuguese neurologist, for developing

01:18:38.189 --> 01:18:41.289
the prefrontal lobotomy. I believe that continued

01:18:41.289 --> 01:18:44.029
until the 60s, by the way. Yeah, imagine that.

01:18:44.050 --> 01:18:46.510
He got that prize in 49. They're like, good job.

01:18:46.649 --> 01:18:48.789
Meaning the medical profession as it stood in

01:18:48.789 --> 01:18:51.170
the 60s when the measles vaccine was rolling

01:18:51.170 --> 01:18:53.670
out. He's still doing this, by the way. I think

01:18:53.670 --> 01:18:57.090
they stopped lobotomies in 60s. Was it 67? He

01:18:57.090 --> 01:19:01.189
developed something called a leucotomy, which

01:19:01.189 --> 01:19:03.270
was slightly different than what became known

01:19:03.270 --> 01:19:05.550
as the lobotomy, which we know as like the ice

01:19:05.550 --> 01:19:09.100
pick. Method. What was his? It said also called

01:19:09.100 --> 01:19:13.800
the leucotomy. So that was this Freeman. That's

01:19:13.800 --> 01:19:15.600
the guy who was like the doc. I think they called

01:19:15.600 --> 01:19:18.420
him even Dr. Death or something like that. For

01:19:18.420 --> 01:19:20.479
he did like he did a ton of lobotomies all over

01:19:20.479 --> 01:19:22.659
the country. Unfortunately, today, you don't

01:19:22.659 --> 01:19:24.380
need a lobotomy apparently to have a lobotomy.

01:19:24.680 --> 01:19:26.699
Just spend a lot of time on social media and

01:19:26.699 --> 01:19:29.260
get your information from certain places. It's

01:19:29.260 --> 01:19:31.800
so bad for people. You can maybe end up in the

01:19:31.800 --> 01:19:34.739
same place. It's just hard to recommend a certain

01:19:34.739 --> 01:19:37.140
amount of it. It's like how much Twinkies should

01:19:37.140 --> 01:19:39.340
you eat a day? I don't mind if you eat Twinkies,

01:19:39.380 --> 01:19:41.159
but if you're eating Twinkies all day long, you're

01:19:41.159 --> 01:19:43.420
going to be fucked up, man. And that's how I

01:19:43.420 --> 01:19:46.300
feel about social media interactions. But I do

01:19:46.300 --> 01:19:49.100
think it's an important way to distribute information.

01:19:50.380 --> 01:19:53.579
Say if you're working for some corporation, you

01:19:53.579 --> 01:19:56.039
know. something fucked up is going on and you

01:19:56.039 --> 01:19:59.840
could put it up on Twitter and with with details

01:19:59.840 --> 01:20:02.479
and facts and and people could look into it and

01:20:02.479 --> 01:20:06.279
you can open up a line of reporters and investigative

01:20:06.279 --> 01:20:09.159
journalists that are gonna find this expose it

01:20:09.159 --> 01:20:11.100
and you could really break a story that is like

01:20:11.100 --> 01:20:15.300
good for everybody like having A way to communicate

01:20:15.300 --> 01:20:17.840
ideas like that is fantastic. Everything else,

01:20:17.899 --> 01:20:20.340
like all the arguing, all the shit that people

01:20:20.340 --> 01:20:22.859
do back and forth, you're just rotting your brain

01:20:22.859 --> 01:20:26.060
out. And we're all guilty of it if you're on

01:20:26.060 --> 01:20:29.560
it. I mean, during the COVID pandemic, when all

01:20:29.560 --> 01:20:31.680
of these government overreaches were occurring,

01:20:31.819 --> 01:20:36.319
but for the existence of social media, you know,

01:20:36.319 --> 01:20:39.079
podcasts like yours and other alternative platforms,

01:20:39.319 --> 01:20:42.859
right? the information in many respects wouldn't

01:20:42.859 --> 01:20:44.859
have come out if you didn't have Peter McCullough

01:20:44.859 --> 01:20:50.000
on, Robert Malone on, and if Fox and just that

01:20:50.000 --> 01:20:52.279
little portion of the, I guess, more traditional

01:20:52.279 --> 01:20:54.340
media sphere wasn't willing for a time period

01:20:54.340 --> 01:20:57.899
to have folks on. I mean, trust me, when I started

01:20:57.899 --> 01:21:00.899
doing vaccine -related work a decade ago, I never

01:21:00.899 --> 01:21:03.100
thought a single outlet, whether it's Fox or

01:21:03.100 --> 01:21:05.800
CNN, would ever have me on. They had me on numerous

01:21:05.800 --> 01:21:08.880
times until... You know, vaccines kind of like,

01:21:09.000 --> 01:21:10.819
all right, let's not touch that again. Was this

01:21:10.819 --> 01:21:12.520
during this was during the Biden administration

01:21:12.520 --> 01:21:16.060
then? And I think part of that was because it

01:21:16.060 --> 01:21:18.279
was a point of contention between the right and

01:21:18.279 --> 01:21:22.350
the left. Right. It was the right opposing. the

01:21:22.350 --> 01:21:24.810
draconian measures that the left, who is in power,

01:21:24.989 --> 01:21:26.630
and we got to get the right back in power because

01:21:26.630 --> 01:21:28.869
we're all about freedom. So I think there was

01:21:28.869 --> 01:21:31.710
a little bit of that going on there, right? For

01:21:31.710 --> 01:21:33.670
sure, there was some of that going on, as you

01:21:33.670 --> 01:21:36.810
pointed out, I believe, in the past. When Trump

01:21:36.810 --> 01:21:39.369
was promoting the vaccine, we're not taking that

01:21:39.369 --> 01:21:41.369
vaccine. And in the moment, Biden was like, we're

01:21:41.369 --> 01:21:43.689
taking the vaccine. Colin Harris was saying it.

01:21:43.729 --> 01:21:45.810
Why would you trust him and whatever his vaccine

01:21:45.810 --> 01:21:48.229
is like? That is so crazy. These people are fake.

01:21:48.569 --> 01:21:50.529
I mean, if Trump came out tomorrow and said,

01:21:50.569 --> 01:21:52.569
That everybody should get every vaccine out there.

01:21:52.750 --> 01:21:55.050
I, you know, see what would happen. I don't know.

01:21:55.710 --> 01:21:57.789
That's the way. If folks would stop saking it.

01:21:57.789 --> 01:22:00.989
Yeah, if he really got into trans kids. They'd

01:22:00.989 --> 01:22:04.689
put a ban to it immediately. Yeah, it's weird.

01:22:04.949 --> 01:22:07.729
It's weird to watch. Weird to watch us so divided

01:22:07.729 --> 01:22:10.329
and at each other's throats. And I really do

01:22:10.329 --> 01:22:13.010
think that a giant percentage of the uptick and

01:22:13.010 --> 01:22:15.369
the craziness is just social media. I don't think

01:22:15.369 --> 01:22:19.699
people are designed for it. Thank God Elon bought

01:22:19.699 --> 01:22:22.460
Twitter because if he didn't, we would not have

01:22:22.460 --> 01:22:27.119
the kind of access to the actual truth, the real

01:22:27.119 --> 01:22:29.119
data. It would all be suppressed. You would never

01:22:29.119 --> 01:22:31.260
find out about it. How would you know about these

01:22:31.260 --> 01:22:33.619
studies? You're not going to go scouring through

01:22:33.619 --> 01:22:35.600
journals. Even if you do, what are you going

01:22:35.600 --> 01:22:37.100
to do? Are you going to get on Rumble and talk

01:22:37.100 --> 01:22:38.979
about it? That's probably the only way you can.

01:22:39.220 --> 01:22:41.380
And if anybody from Rumble tries to share that

01:22:41.380 --> 01:22:43.779
on Twitter, they'll get banned. So it's like

01:22:43.779 --> 01:22:47.710
we were in a real pickle. It was a bad spot.

01:22:47.970 --> 01:22:50.989
It was just a few years ago, which is nuts. We

01:22:50.989 --> 01:22:53.229
could have gone a very different direction. I'll

01:22:53.229 --> 01:22:56.350
use an analogy. Remember the airlines, because

01:22:56.350 --> 01:22:59.930
CDC required masks on planes? Yeah. When that

01:22:59.930 --> 01:23:04.369
got struck down by the courts, a number of airlines

01:23:04.369 --> 01:23:06.210
said, we're going to keep our mask mandate. I

01:23:06.210 --> 01:23:08.229
don't know if you remember that. They proudly

01:23:08.229 --> 01:23:10.550
came out. The CO said, we're going to keep it.

01:23:10.569 --> 01:23:11.890
Half of them said they were going to keep it.

01:23:11.930 --> 01:23:13.890
The other half immediately lifted the mask mandate

01:23:13.890 --> 01:23:16.720
on planes. And those that decided to keep it,

01:23:16.739 --> 01:23:18.520
they dropped it within a day or two, I think,

01:23:18.579 --> 01:23:20.279
or something like that, really rapidly, because

01:23:20.279 --> 01:23:23.039
economically, they were losing business. And

01:23:23.039 --> 01:23:26.100
I think that changed the center of gravity on

01:23:26.100 --> 01:23:31.960
that issue. I think Elon buying Twitter, X, basically

01:23:31.960 --> 01:23:34.319
changed the center of gravity on censorship,

01:23:34.539 --> 01:23:37.619
whereby without that... They might have all just

01:23:37.619 --> 01:23:40.380
kept going even in the worst direction and they

01:23:40.380 --> 01:23:43.199
saw they were losing market share to X once he

01:23:43.199 --> 01:23:45.680
bought it and he didn't have censorship. I think

01:23:45.680 --> 01:23:48.119
that can form their conduct. Well, it was also

01:23:48.119 --> 01:23:50.699
– it was indicative of how people actually felt

01:23:50.699 --> 01:23:55.579
versus what was suppressed. Like when you realize

01:23:55.579 --> 01:23:58.359
that there's – well, have you ever seen like

01:23:58.359 --> 01:24:01.100
how people identifying as non -binary and trans

01:24:01.100 --> 01:24:05.600
dropped off like right after purchase of Twitter?

01:24:06.239 --> 01:24:07.720
It's because people got a chance to talk about

01:24:07.720 --> 01:24:09.899
it now, and you can criticize it, and people

01:24:09.899 --> 01:24:11.779
can put up memes, and they can call it a mental

01:24:11.779 --> 01:24:13.739
illness again. And then all of a sudden everybody's

01:24:13.739 --> 01:24:16.659
like, hey, what are we supporting? Men with penises

01:24:16.659 --> 01:24:19.539
in the women's room? Like, did we get hypnotized?

01:24:19.659 --> 01:24:21.739
Like, what the fuck happened? And now you're

01:24:21.739 --> 01:24:25.779
seeing even prestigious mainstream media publications

01:24:25.779 --> 01:24:29.979
talking about the dangers of gender transition

01:24:29.979 --> 01:24:34.720
for young kids. Wow. OK, so what happened? What

01:24:34.720 --> 01:24:36.399
happened? What happened was Elon bought Twitter

01:24:36.399 --> 01:24:39.680
and people were out to actually accurately gauge

01:24:39.680 --> 01:24:41.699
what people are willing to tolerate and what

01:24:41.699 --> 01:24:44.619
they actually want versus what's being shoved

01:24:44.619 --> 01:24:47.220
down everybody's throats with censorship and

01:24:47.220 --> 01:24:49.359
with mainstream media narratives. They just keep

01:24:49.359 --> 01:24:51.920
piping back and forth, pretending everybody agrees

01:24:51.920 --> 01:24:54.720
with them. That's one piece of it. They are also,

01:24:54.800 --> 01:24:56.819
by the way, a lot of the hospitals and doctors

01:24:56.819 --> 01:25:00.460
are getting sued. Right. Left and right on this.

01:25:00.500 --> 01:25:03.300
In fact. Especially after that first ruling,

01:25:03.439 --> 01:25:11.220
right? We have, you know, I can't talk about

01:25:11.220 --> 01:25:16.079
it, but very, very troubling matters, which includes

01:25:16.079 --> 01:25:19.920
suicide and hiding it from parents, school districts.

01:25:20.000 --> 01:25:22.560
I mean, it's really troubling stuff. Do you have

01:25:22.560 --> 01:25:25.260
children? Yeah, I do. I do, too. And one of the

01:25:25.260 --> 01:25:27.899
things you realize if you have children is that

01:25:27.899 --> 01:25:30.560
they are very malleable and they want to fit

01:25:30.560 --> 01:25:34.640
in and they are subject to social contagions.

01:25:34.859 --> 01:25:37.340
And that social contagion can be dressing up

01:25:37.340 --> 01:25:39.439
goth. It could be, like, whatever it is. Like,

01:25:39.460 --> 01:25:41.000
they want to fit in. And they're experimenting.

01:25:41.079 --> 01:25:44.359
They're kids. And if you just decide, oh, you're

01:25:44.359 --> 01:25:47.220
a boy, and then you bring that kid to it and

01:25:47.220 --> 01:25:48.659
you're giving them all this positive attention

01:25:48.659 --> 01:25:51.000
and you're giving them all this positive feedback

01:25:51.000 --> 01:25:52.960
and then you go to school, I'm trans. now and

01:25:52.960 --> 01:25:55.579
everyone says you're brave like for awkward kids

01:25:55.579 --> 01:26:00.399
that is absolutely enticing yeah and not only

01:26:00.399 --> 01:26:02.560
that they do it in clusters like abigail schreier

01:26:02.560 --> 01:26:04.239
has written about this that this is a lot of

01:26:04.239 --> 01:26:06.979
these girls have autism and a lot of these girls

01:26:06.979 --> 01:26:09.060
they're socially awkward and they're very uncomfortable

01:26:09.060 --> 01:26:11.039
with their body and they're going through puberty

01:26:11.039 --> 01:26:13.100
which kind of freaks them out already freaks

01:26:13.100 --> 01:26:15.680
out any girl yeah and then something comes along

01:26:15.680 --> 01:26:19.479
like this and now you've been taken to a doctor

01:26:19.479 --> 01:26:22.149
and had your breasts removed and you're 15. That's

01:26:22.149 --> 01:26:26.369
fucking crazy. And to say anything in opposition

01:26:26.369 --> 01:26:31.329
to that somehow became you're a bigot or you're

01:26:31.329 --> 01:26:34.510
a Nazi or you're transphobic. This is crazy talk.

01:26:34.689 --> 01:26:37.170
Like you're talking about very malleable children

01:26:37.170 --> 01:26:39.310
doing something. You can't even get a fucking

01:26:39.310 --> 01:26:41.970
tattoo if you're 15. Why can you get your breasts

01:26:41.970 --> 01:26:45.880
removed? That's nuts. Unfortunately, it became

01:26:45.880 --> 01:26:48.420
a very big business. The number of centers in

01:26:48.420 --> 01:26:51.079
America that perform these surgeries exploded.

01:26:51.300 --> 01:26:54.359
And so with that explosion, you need clients.

01:26:54.600 --> 01:26:59.399
Like every business, it needs to feed that business

01:26:59.399 --> 01:27:05.659
model. That is so evil. It's so creepy to think

01:27:05.659 --> 01:27:07.920
that people are willing to talk people into that

01:27:07.920 --> 01:27:13.590
just for money. They've done it with so many

01:27:13.590 --> 01:27:17.130
other things. It's not impossible to believe

01:27:17.130 --> 01:27:21.199
that it's true. It's scary. A lot of times, if

01:27:21.199 --> 01:27:23.640
you follow the money trail, you can see how things

01:27:23.640 --> 01:27:26.699
develop and where they go. It often helps, you

01:27:26.699 --> 01:27:30.239
know, puts in perspective. And look, rare is

01:27:30.239 --> 01:27:32.760
the person that says, I'm evil, I'm bad. I mean,

01:27:32.779 --> 01:27:34.939
people find a way to justify things. They find

01:27:34.939 --> 01:27:38.840
a way to excuse them and, you know, find, you

01:27:38.840 --> 01:27:40.859
know, the, well, I'm doing more good than bad

01:27:40.859 --> 01:27:43.979
justification in their minds. Or there's the

01:27:43.979 --> 01:27:45.840
diffusion of responsibility that comes with being

01:27:45.840 --> 01:27:47.560
a part of a corporation that's doing something.

01:27:47.850 --> 01:27:49.770
hey, look, I'm just an accountant or, hey, I'm

01:27:49.770 --> 01:27:53.409
just an engineer or, hey, I'm doing – I don't

01:27:53.409 --> 01:27:54.750
want the company to move in this direction. However,

01:27:54.869 --> 01:27:58.130
I do own stock. So as it goes up. Especially

01:27:58.130 --> 01:28:00.390
in public -traded companies, which brings us

01:28:00.390 --> 01:28:02.810
back to the very beginning of it, which is that

01:28:02.810 --> 01:28:05.829
is what happens in those corporations. Should

01:28:05.829 --> 01:28:08.970
that be a thing? Like if you could redo the –

01:28:08.970 --> 01:28:11.390
if you had a magic wand and you could completely

01:28:11.390 --> 01:28:14.250
redo the economy, would you have the stock market?

01:28:15.470 --> 01:28:17.630
I mean, isn't it enough that people just buy

01:28:17.630 --> 01:28:20.810
things, sell things, your company's worth money

01:28:20.810 --> 01:28:23.949
because it makes money? Isn't that enough? Why

01:28:23.949 --> 01:28:26.750
do we have to complicate it? Why do we have a

01:28:26.750 --> 01:28:29.670
stock market? I don't know if the stock market

01:28:29.670 --> 01:28:31.789
itself is the problem. I mean, stocks, the whole

01:28:31.789 --> 01:28:37.779
idea is just to find a more... an efficient way

01:28:37.779 --> 01:28:40.800
for me to sell you shares in my company. That's

01:28:40.800 --> 01:28:43.659
all it is. But the underlying problem is not

01:28:43.659 --> 01:28:45.800
the market, in my view. It's not the existence

01:28:45.800 --> 01:28:50.579
of the stock market. It's the government intervening

01:28:50.579 --> 01:28:55.819
into the market forces in a way that do not result

01:28:55.819 --> 01:28:59.819
in a good outcome. And often that is at the behest

01:28:59.819 --> 01:29:02.770
of industry. There needs to be some government

01:29:02.770 --> 01:29:04.130
regulation. So that's the problem. The problem

01:29:04.130 --> 01:29:06.430
is that corporations have money. They can use

01:29:06.430 --> 01:29:09.489
that money to influence laws, influence government.

01:29:11.050 --> 01:29:14.729
That is a significant part of the problem because,

01:29:14.789 --> 01:29:18.489
look, most regulatory agencies are born out of

01:29:18.489 --> 01:29:22.109
some crisis, right? Right. So they often start

01:29:22.109 --> 01:29:24.289
as a great idea, like people wanting to do good,

01:29:24.329 --> 01:29:26.710
members of our Congress wanting to do good. But

01:29:26.710 --> 01:29:28.590
then who's got the time, money, and inclination

01:29:28.590 --> 01:29:32.550
to influence that regulatory agency? You? No.

01:29:32.630 --> 01:29:35.369
Well, you do have some money, but you? Me? Who?

01:29:36.170 --> 01:29:41.829
No. It's going to be, even wealthy folks don't

01:29:41.829 --> 01:29:45.090
have it. They're not going to do it. It's not

01:29:45.090 --> 01:29:47.569
even the lobbyists per se. It's the very industry

01:29:47.569 --> 01:29:50.850
they're trying to regulate. They have the money,

01:29:50.909 --> 01:29:54.170
time, patience, inclination to do that, to create

01:29:54.170 --> 01:29:56.350
the revolving door, right? Right. Think about

01:29:56.350 --> 01:29:59.069
it like this. Article I of the Constitution creates

01:29:59.069 --> 01:30:03.060
Congress. Right? First article. And what's its

01:30:03.060 --> 01:30:06.359
purpose? Primary purpose is to pass laws. Right?

01:30:06.560 --> 01:30:08.380
How many laws a year is it passed, you think,

01:30:08.460 --> 01:30:13.340
approximately? About 200. Okay? Our agencies

01:30:13.340 --> 01:30:15.079
and the federal government, do you know how many

01:30:15.079 --> 01:30:17.020
regulations which have the same exact weight

01:30:17.020 --> 01:30:20.560
as law, they pass every year? Can I guess? Yeah.

01:30:20.819 --> 01:30:23.640
2 ,000. It depends on the year, but often more.

01:30:24.289 --> 01:30:28.130
Really? Yes. There's a chart on this. I'm sure

01:30:28.130 --> 01:30:31.390
it can be pulled up. But it's something to that

01:30:31.390 --> 01:30:33.409
effect. Depends on the year. But somewhere between,

01:30:33.489 --> 01:30:36.270
let's say, 100, 300, 2 ,000 on the other side.

01:30:36.350 --> 01:30:39.189
And who are those folks passing? Are they part

01:30:39.189 --> 01:30:41.210
of the Article I, the constitutional branch that's

01:30:41.210 --> 01:30:42.550
supposed to pass laws that are elected representatives?

01:30:42.670 --> 01:30:47.729
No. The unelected bureaucrats sitting there,

01:30:47.829 --> 01:30:50.989
and you've named your alphabet agency that you've

01:30:50.989 --> 01:30:53.529
probably never heard of. that pass these regs

01:30:53.529 --> 01:30:55.970
that are the same force of law. And who really

01:30:55.970 --> 01:30:59.170
has, again, the time and inclination to influence

01:30:59.170 --> 01:31:03.250
them? It's often the very industry. So it starts

01:31:03.250 --> 01:31:05.989
as a good idea, but unfortunately it ends up

01:31:05.989 --> 01:31:09.770
being what the literature calls. This is the

01:31:09.770 --> 01:31:11.689
political science literature. It came out of

01:31:11.689 --> 01:31:14.850
Harvard and Yale and all those places. They don't

01:31:14.850 --> 01:31:17.470
want to talk about it today. Captive agencies.

01:31:18.250 --> 01:31:22.210
Okay? That's what they often become. CDC, FDA,

01:31:22.409 --> 01:31:26.770
to varying degrees, depending on what they're

01:31:26.770 --> 01:31:29.930
doing, are very much captive agencies when you

01:31:29.930 --> 01:31:33.149
look closely at it and you understand it. That's

01:31:33.149 --> 01:31:36.449
true of many other parts of the government. Well,

01:31:36.550 --> 01:31:39.550
particularly people don't know, a lot of people

01:31:39.550 --> 01:31:41.829
don't know, that haven't gone down these rabbit

01:31:41.829 --> 01:31:44.210
holes, that a lot of these people, it's a revolving

01:31:44.210 --> 01:31:46.949
door. They leave the FDA and then they go and

01:31:46.949 --> 01:31:48.569
work for the pharmaceutical drug companies and

01:31:48.569 --> 01:31:53.229
they make a lot of money. Yes. Like Julie Gerberding,

01:31:53.449 --> 01:31:57.090
who is the head of the CDC in the 90s, that oversaw

01:31:57.090 --> 01:31:59.550
some of the most controversial disputes about

01:31:59.550 --> 01:32:03.689
what? Whose products? Merck's vaccine products.

01:32:04.130 --> 01:32:08.029
OK. And then after her, you know, she she cleaned

01:32:08.029 --> 01:32:11.649
all that up, left CDC and went to work for who?

01:32:12.130 --> 01:32:15.979
Merck. Making. Tens of millions of dollars, I

01:32:15.979 --> 01:32:17.960
believe, she's made over the time that she's

01:32:17.960 --> 01:32:20.920
been there. So she did good. She got rewarded.

01:32:21.359 --> 01:32:23.479
You think if she didn't do good, she wouldn't

01:32:23.479 --> 01:32:24.859
get rewarded? You don't think other people see

01:32:24.859 --> 01:32:26.659
that in the federal health? Of course they know.

01:32:26.760 --> 01:32:28.760
They all know. Of course. So it's the golden

01:32:28.760 --> 01:32:30.819
parachute, and everybody strives for it. If you

01:32:30.819 --> 01:32:34.260
can get that post, you can get the top of the

01:32:34.260 --> 01:32:37.000
food chain over at the CDC. Guys, see you in

01:32:37.000 --> 01:32:39.739
about five years. In five years, you're thinking

01:32:39.739 --> 01:32:43.420
about your Lamborghini, you've got a yacht. future.

01:32:44.260 --> 01:32:47.300
It's just, it's kooky. It's kooky that it's legal.

01:32:47.539 --> 01:32:50.119
Look, I don't know if it's as nefarious to that

01:32:50.119 --> 01:32:52.579
in the minds of people in public health. Let's

01:32:52.579 --> 01:32:54.340
put it that way, since we're talking about public

01:32:54.340 --> 01:32:58.920
health officials. But I think that it has a corrupting

01:32:58.920 --> 01:33:02.380
influence that cannot be detangled from the fact

01:33:02.380 --> 01:33:06.100
that they're human. It will influence them. I

01:33:06.100 --> 01:33:07.859
don't think it's... There's also a precedent.

01:33:08.399 --> 01:33:10.020
There's a precedent that's been set with many

01:33:10.020 --> 01:33:11.560
people before them, so it's something they look

01:33:11.560 --> 01:33:14.619
forward to. If you get this job, you will likely

01:33:14.619 --> 01:33:17.840
get a job like this afterwards. A bunch of people

01:33:17.840 --> 01:33:20.060
have, and so you think about that while you're

01:33:20.060 --> 01:33:22.140
trying to get that job. It's part of the motivation

01:33:22.140 --> 01:33:25.500
is financial reward. Absolutely. It has to be.

01:33:25.640 --> 01:33:28.880
There's a Pfizer executive who was serendipitously

01:33:28.880 --> 01:33:33.859
recorded specifically saying that. I have the

01:33:33.859 --> 01:33:35.579
exchange in my book. It's something to the effect

01:33:35.579 --> 01:33:38.180
of, Well, you know, those who are working at

01:33:38.180 --> 01:33:41.819
the FDA, you know, they're eventually going to,

01:33:41.819 --> 01:33:44.180
you know, come work for industry. So they don't

01:33:44.180 --> 01:33:47.800
want to, you know. hurt industry too much. And

01:33:47.800 --> 01:33:50.079
the person asking the question says, well, you

01:33:50.079 --> 01:33:51.539
think that's bad? He goes, yeah, it's bad for

01:33:51.539 --> 01:33:55.000
America, you know, but not bad for the companies.

01:33:55.260 --> 01:33:57.060
That's the problem. That's exactly right. Well,

01:33:57.079 --> 01:33:58.560
this is the thing about having an obligation

01:33:58.560 --> 01:34:00.739
to your shareholders, which brings me back to

01:34:00.739 --> 01:34:03.119
the whole stock market thing. I know this is

01:34:03.119 --> 01:34:05.359
a kooky thought, but I mean, if we never had

01:34:05.359 --> 01:34:07.439
the stock market in the first place and you didn't

01:34:07.439 --> 01:34:09.319
have an obligation to your shareholders to consistently

01:34:09.319 --> 01:34:11.800
make more money every quarter, if people could

01:34:11.800 --> 01:34:14.760
just accept the fact that You own this business,

01:34:14.819 --> 01:34:16.880
this person. You make a certain amount of money.

01:34:16.939 --> 01:34:20.359
Everybody's doing great. Like why have all these

01:34:20.359 --> 01:34:23.640
people making money and just moving stocks around,

01:34:23.920 --> 01:34:26.779
insane amounts of wealth, manipulating systems

01:34:26.779 --> 01:34:30.140
to crash stocks? There's people that are like

01:34:30.140 --> 01:34:33.779
in public office that say things that aren't

01:34:33.779 --> 01:34:37.060
necessarily true that influence the market. And

01:34:37.060 --> 01:34:38.619
it turns out they were totally wrong. And then

01:34:38.619 --> 01:34:40.960
you find out that they bet on it and they made

01:34:40.960 --> 01:34:42.439
a bunch of money in the stock market. This is

01:34:42.439 --> 01:34:44.859
crazy. This is crazy. And it's all true. And

01:34:44.859 --> 01:34:49.520
it's all legal, which is so fucking bizarre that

01:34:49.520 --> 01:34:55.609
in a time where we are completely aware. that

01:34:55.609 --> 01:34:57.470
all this stuff is taking place. All right. Can

01:34:57.470 --> 01:34:58.750
I put that into three different buckets? Yeah,

01:34:58.770 --> 01:34:59.630
yeah, yeah, please. I'm going to put it in three

01:34:59.630 --> 01:35:01.329
different buckets. There's the bucket of making

01:35:01.329 --> 01:35:03.029
products. Right. There are companies that make

01:35:03.029 --> 01:35:04.630
products. There are companies that provide services,

01:35:04.949 --> 01:35:06.649
including financial services that can be useful.

01:35:07.529 --> 01:35:09.149
You need a mortgage if you can buy a house. You

01:35:09.149 --> 01:35:11.109
can't afford it. So mortgage products are a service

01:35:11.109 --> 01:35:12.210
that are brought from the financial industry.

01:35:12.329 --> 01:35:14.109
And then there's, I think, what you're talking

01:35:14.109 --> 01:35:17.010
about, which is the part of our economy that

01:35:17.010 --> 01:35:20.229
is finance. It's just moving money. It's just

01:35:20.229 --> 01:35:23.250
moving numbers where they've got high -speed

01:35:23.250 --> 01:35:25.369
computers that are trying in micro fractions

01:35:25.369 --> 01:35:28.189
of a second to beat out the other guy to basically

01:35:28.189 --> 01:35:33.050
triage and make money based on that adds no value

01:35:33.050 --> 01:35:37.079
to our economy. Products and services. Add value.

01:35:37.199 --> 01:35:40.960
And to everything you see around that we're sitting

01:35:40.960 --> 01:35:43.319
in right now was made by a company. Right. And

01:35:43.319 --> 01:35:51.560
so and I'm not aware of a system that has been

01:35:51.560 --> 01:35:55.329
more efficient. at producing products and services

01:35:55.329 --> 01:35:58.149
that improve the lives of others than the free

01:35:58.149 --> 01:36:02.369
market system with some regulation. I'm not aware

01:36:02.369 --> 01:36:04.310
of one. Socialism doesn't do it. We've seen that

01:36:04.310 --> 01:36:06.649
in action. Communism does not do it. We've seen

01:36:06.649 --> 01:36:07.949
that in action. We need to just do it right.

01:36:08.130 --> 01:36:13.590
Dictators. Kidding. Clearly. So I wouldn't throw

01:36:13.590 --> 01:36:16.029
out the whole system is what I'm saying. I'm

01:36:16.029 --> 01:36:18.170
not saying that. Yeah, I'm saying that that part

01:36:18.170 --> 01:36:22.000
of it's good. Now, when you break... The alignment

01:36:22.000 --> 01:36:26.479
of economic self -interest of the companies,

01:36:26.500 --> 01:36:30.039
the market interest, to whatever it is, protect

01:36:30.039 --> 01:36:32.680
consumers, that's when you're a problem. And

01:36:32.680 --> 01:36:36.680
that is the idea, or at least they sell it as

01:36:36.680 --> 01:36:38.539
the idea from a lot of government regulations.

01:36:38.560 --> 01:36:44.439
Well, the company is not on its own going to...

01:36:45.079 --> 01:36:48.020
Do what's right in this instance. So we need

01:36:48.020 --> 01:36:50.340
government to do it. And if government really

01:36:50.340 --> 01:36:54.460
only stepped in when it was truly needed, it

01:36:54.460 --> 01:36:56.079
would be a good system. You're right. Right.

01:36:56.239 --> 01:36:59.239
But the system often breaks when they step in

01:36:59.239 --> 01:37:01.840
when they're not needed. Sometimes when they

01:37:01.840 --> 01:37:05.340
step in and have the opposite effect, when they're

01:37:05.340 --> 01:37:08.359
really just protecting the industry at the expense

01:37:08.359 --> 01:37:11.399
of consumers, which happens too often. Is the

01:37:11.399 --> 01:37:14.560
benefit of the stock market – and this is, again,

01:37:14.619 --> 01:37:17.140
nonsense, right? I'm not an economist, clearly.

01:37:17.319 --> 01:37:20.119
But if we had never invented it, if human beings

01:37:20.119 --> 01:37:23.220
had never come up with this idea, if instead

01:37:23.220 --> 01:37:27.340
we just had a free market, what has the stock

01:37:27.340 --> 01:37:30.500
market, what has publicly traded companies, what

01:37:30.500 --> 01:37:32.399
has the ability to own stock in companies and

01:37:32.399 --> 01:37:33.720
hedge funds and all that stuff, what has that

01:37:33.720 --> 01:37:38.500
done for innovation and for progress and for

01:37:38.500 --> 01:37:41.659
– creating more products? Do you think it's encouraged

01:37:41.659 --> 01:37:45.199
more products and encouraged more activity in

01:37:45.199 --> 01:37:47.159
the economy and we're further ahead than we would

01:37:47.159 --> 01:37:49.619
have been if no one had invented it? Because

01:37:49.619 --> 01:37:52.800
it seems like at the very least, it's a weird

01:37:52.800 --> 01:37:58.369
opening for... People that just move money around

01:37:58.369 --> 01:38:01.409
and add no value and extract enormous amounts

01:38:01.409 --> 01:38:03.569
of wealth. So that seems like you've got a hole

01:38:03.569 --> 01:38:05.949
in your pipe. Why are people that aren't even

01:38:05.949 --> 01:38:08.510
involved, why do they get to make all the money

01:38:08.510 --> 01:38:10.930
on this? What is going on here? You're doing

01:38:10.930 --> 01:38:13.310
a weird thing that I don't know if you had to

01:38:13.310 --> 01:38:15.890
do to achieve the same result that you achieved

01:38:15.890 --> 01:38:19.270
with a free market capitalist society that doesn't

01:38:19.270 --> 01:38:21.640
have a stock market. that just has a bunch of

01:38:21.640 --> 01:38:24.239
companies making money and everybody doing the

01:38:24.239 --> 01:38:26.579
stuff they do? It's like, is it a necessity,

01:38:26.819 --> 01:38:32.079
is what I'm asking. Well, outside of my air expertise,

01:38:32.340 --> 01:38:36.100
but... Definitely outside of mine. I mean, I'll

01:38:36.100 --> 01:38:38.220
give you my musings. Yes, please. So this is

01:38:38.220 --> 01:38:40.260
just my off -the -cuff musings, and that's something

01:38:40.260 --> 01:38:42.939
I actually really want to think about more. So

01:38:42.939 --> 01:38:46.779
when I think about companies going public...

01:38:48.939 --> 01:38:52.739
It certainly appears to help drive capital to

01:38:52.739 --> 01:38:57.520
those companies because hedge venture capital

01:38:57.520 --> 01:39:00.239
funds, a lot of times they're exit strategy.

01:39:01.100 --> 01:39:04.819
So I'm willing to give you all this. I'm a venture

01:39:04.819 --> 01:39:07.539
capital. I'm willing to give you all this money

01:39:07.539 --> 01:39:11.979
to start this company because I know what the,

01:39:12.100 --> 01:39:14.420
you know, my goal is three to five years from

01:39:14.420 --> 01:39:17.079
now, it can go public and I, the venture capital

01:39:17.079 --> 01:39:20.420
fund, can get back. x amount of my money that's

01:39:20.420 --> 01:39:23.840
my that's the exit strategy for that investment

01:39:23.840 --> 01:39:28.380
now if there was no efficient market to to to

01:39:28.380 --> 01:39:31.300
do that right meaning you couldn't just have

01:39:31.300 --> 01:39:34.140
any a publicly traded market where just easy

01:39:34.140 --> 01:39:36.779
to shell sell right to have this public offering

01:39:36.779 --> 01:39:41.140
what would that do to venture capital funds well

01:39:41.140 --> 01:39:44.130
i i mean would they still invest as much They

01:39:44.130 --> 01:39:46.210
might. And instead, they might just focus on

01:39:46.210 --> 01:39:48.770
hard money returns. Right. They want companies

01:39:48.770 --> 01:39:53.550
that really just make money, you know, cash on

01:39:53.550 --> 01:39:58.310
cash versus this immediate bubble of equity inflation

01:39:58.310 --> 01:40:00.710
that happens when you go public because it's

01:40:00.710 --> 01:40:03.770
now liquid, the ownership. Right. Market caps.

01:40:04.050 --> 01:40:05.829
I don't know if that answers your question. No,

01:40:05.829 --> 01:40:08.270
it does. Well, I don't think it does because,

01:40:08.289 --> 01:40:10.670
you know, your question was a good one. It's

01:40:10.670 --> 01:40:13.409
far more sophisticated than what I answered because

01:40:13.409 --> 01:40:17.329
you're saying, what does it contribute to society?

01:40:18.130 --> 01:40:19.510
Right. I don't think it contributes anything.

01:40:19.850 --> 01:40:22.229
I just answered it so narrowly and said, well,

01:40:22.409 --> 01:40:25.630
it might add some, it might entice venture capitalists.

01:40:25.630 --> 01:40:27.189
Though I don't know if, I don't even know if

01:40:27.189 --> 01:40:29.210
what I just said is entirely correct. They might

01:40:29.210 --> 01:40:31.050
still do it anyway because they'll just might

01:40:31.050 --> 01:40:33.229
do the best thing. Now, what does it add to the

01:40:33.229 --> 01:40:36.159
side? All of it have liquid. I mean. It'd be

01:40:36.159 --> 01:40:38.380
harder to have like a retirement account in the

01:40:38.380 --> 01:40:41.220
way you have right now to own stock, right? That

01:40:41.220 --> 01:40:42.960
would be more difficult to put your money in

01:40:42.960 --> 01:40:46.239
and buy shares of Coca -Cola. Would you prefer

01:40:46.239 --> 01:40:50.979
for big corporations to be owned by certain families

01:40:50.979 --> 01:40:53.479
or would you rather them be owned by the public?

01:40:53.920 --> 01:40:57.079
I think you should be allowed to keep your company

01:40:57.079 --> 01:40:59.779
in your family if you own it. Well, you should.

01:40:59.859 --> 01:41:02.600
Well, you certainly can look at New York Times.

01:41:03.520 --> 01:41:05.720
The New York Times, the family kept control.

01:41:05.899 --> 01:41:08.239
My understanding, again, we're outside of my

01:41:08.239 --> 01:41:11.239
normal area of expertise, but the family, my

01:41:11.239 --> 01:41:14.260
understanding, has the controlling of votes in

01:41:14.260 --> 01:41:15.859
that company, but it's publicly traded as well

01:41:15.859 --> 01:41:17.680
in the New York Times. Yeah. If I'm not mistaken.

01:41:18.800 --> 01:41:20.960
I know people that have taken their company public

01:41:20.960 --> 01:41:24.039
and regretted it. Like, it's too much shit. You

01:41:24.039 --> 01:41:26.680
deal with too much nonsense afterwards. And they're

01:41:26.680 --> 01:41:28.939
like, it wasn't worth it. Just for the hassle

01:41:28.939 --> 01:41:31.899
and the quality of life, I would have never done

01:41:31.899 --> 01:41:34.119
it if I had known this. I guess it depends what

01:41:34.119 --> 01:41:35.520
they wanted. Yeah, I guess it depends what they

01:41:35.520 --> 01:41:39.420
wanted. But the question is, like, if a bunch

01:41:39.420 --> 01:41:41.079
of people are making money that aren't contributing,

01:41:41.220 --> 01:41:43.220
they're just, like, siphoning money by moving

01:41:43.220 --> 01:41:44.920
money around all over the place. Like, isn't

01:41:44.920 --> 01:41:47.380
that leaky money? Like, if you don't really contribute

01:41:47.380 --> 01:41:49.779
anything, you don't provide any value, and yet

01:41:49.779 --> 01:41:51.619
you're extracting extreme wealth, don't you have

01:41:51.619 --> 01:41:54.859
a leak in the pipe? It seems like if that money

01:41:54.859 --> 01:41:57.220
was just being distributed normally, like the

01:41:57.220 --> 01:41:59.520
buying and selling of goods and services, that

01:41:59.520 --> 01:42:03.329
would be a much more... like honest society but

01:42:03.329 --> 01:42:07.310
would it have the same amount of in uh would

01:42:07.310 --> 01:42:09.670
that same amount of innovation and would it have

01:42:09.670 --> 01:42:13.529
the same amount of productivity or is that productivity

01:42:13.529 --> 01:42:17.430
not just enhanced by this flood of capital but

01:42:17.430 --> 01:42:20.569
also encouraged so it like stimulates everything

01:42:20.569 --> 01:42:24.170
so like having these vampires sucking on the

01:42:24.170 --> 01:42:27.699
pipe Like ultimately it does move numbers around

01:42:27.699 --> 01:42:30.920
and it gets more stuff out there, which also

01:42:30.920 --> 01:42:34.659
encourages innovation. I don't know. I mean,

01:42:34.659 --> 01:42:39.439
I think that there's a gray area between the

01:42:39.439 --> 01:42:41.600
second and third bucket. So we were talking about

01:42:41.600 --> 01:42:43.399
like products and services. Maybe we'll make

01:42:43.399 --> 01:42:45.159
that one bucket because those can have value

01:42:45.159 --> 01:42:48.539
to society, many of them. And then there at the

01:42:48.539 --> 01:42:52.130
extreme, there's like just like. triage nonsense

01:42:52.130 --> 01:42:55.489
that happens. I put my supercomputer as close

01:42:55.489 --> 01:43:01.130
as possible to the stock exchange so I can make

01:43:01.130 --> 01:43:05.229
money on fractions of a fraction. Then there's

01:43:05.229 --> 01:43:11.409
that gray zone in between where there's mortgages

01:43:11.409 --> 01:43:15.630
good. Help the American family achieve their

01:43:15.630 --> 01:43:19.430
dream of owning a home. Mortgage -backed securities?

01:43:20.729 --> 01:43:23.229
Maybe not so good. Mortgage -backed securities

01:43:23.229 --> 01:43:25.229
that are double, triple -sliced into all these

01:43:25.229 --> 01:43:28.149
tranches, getting worse, going down that road.

01:43:28.170 --> 01:43:30.149
There's a degree where you're getting further

01:43:30.149 --> 01:43:32.770
and further away from the very point of that

01:43:32.770 --> 01:43:36.670
financial instrument that had goods. So I think

01:43:36.670 --> 01:43:40.409
that there is a point at which, yeah, no good.

01:43:41.350 --> 01:43:43.989
But I think it's hard to talk in generalities

01:43:43.989 --> 01:43:45.909
in my mind. If you have a specific example, let's

01:43:45.909 --> 01:43:47.770
go down that road. Well, Bernie Madoff is the

01:43:47.770 --> 01:43:52.140
best example. Right? Obviously, everybody had

01:43:52.140 --> 01:43:54.380
to know something was – there was some shenanigans

01:43:54.380 --> 01:43:56.340
taking place because the returns were too crazy.

01:43:56.460 --> 01:43:59.039
But look at how many intelligent people invested

01:43:59.039 --> 01:44:01.420
money with him because he was so successful.

01:44:02.039 --> 01:44:06.100
My old office in Manhattan when I used to work

01:44:06.100 --> 01:44:08.020
at Latham & Watkins was, I think, three floors

01:44:08.020 --> 01:44:09.859
above Bernie's office in the Lipstick Building.

01:44:10.039 --> 01:44:12.640
It was on 23rd. I think it was on 24th. Nothing

01:44:12.640 --> 01:44:17.680
to do with him. Anyways, zero. Okay, but Bernie,

01:44:17.880 --> 01:44:21.350
Bernie just straight up. Stole. Just stole. I

01:44:21.350 --> 01:44:24.050
mean, that's not even a thing. Come on. No, no,

01:44:24.090 --> 01:44:28.329
no. You're right. He just stole. and gave out

01:44:28.329 --> 01:44:31.329
fake returns, as far as I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:44:31.369 --> 01:44:34.170
He had people thinking that they were making

01:44:34.170 --> 01:44:36.670
all this money. Yeah, he's just a pyramid scheme,

01:44:36.829 --> 01:44:38.850
basically. 100%. That was eventually going to

01:44:38.850 --> 01:44:41.010
fail. I mean, it only could go on for so long.

01:44:41.149 --> 01:44:43.770
Well, I think it fucked up because of the 2008

01:44:43.770 --> 01:44:46.409
crisis, right? They think he could have kept

01:44:46.409 --> 01:44:48.649
it going if there wasn't the crash. Wasn't that

01:44:48.649 --> 01:44:50.210
what did him in? There's always going to be a

01:44:50.210 --> 01:44:52.550
dip, so it was only a matter of time. I mean,

01:44:52.550 --> 01:44:53.949
he was going to get... That was a big one, though,

01:44:53.970 --> 01:44:55.350
and people wanted their money back, and he was

01:44:55.350 --> 01:45:01.119
like, yikes. That's an incredible scheme. It's

01:45:01.119 --> 01:45:03.460
amazing that somebody could even pull that off,

01:45:03.500 --> 01:45:05.560
frankly. It is crazy and it is incredible. But

01:45:05.560 --> 01:45:08.140
it just shows you that this is a weird system

01:45:08.140 --> 01:45:10.960
that you can pretend to be moving money around

01:45:10.960 --> 01:45:12.920
and you don't have any products. But it corrected.

01:45:13.279 --> 01:45:15.340
It did. It's a good point because he did go to

01:45:15.340 --> 01:45:17.579
jail. He corrected. He went to jail. And, man,

01:45:17.600 --> 01:45:20.100
did he become the post -trial of like, don't

01:45:20.100 --> 01:45:23.020
do that. Don't do that. He became don't do that.

01:45:24.520 --> 01:45:27.600
It's just. It's probably a stupid question because

01:45:27.600 --> 01:45:29.779
I don't know anything about economics. But I

01:45:29.779 --> 01:45:32.000
was just thinking that like couldn't we have

01:45:32.000 --> 01:45:35.920
the same world and not have that? Wouldn't that

01:45:35.920 --> 01:45:38.520
be more honest and more beneficial? But it would

01:45:38.520 --> 01:45:41.199
have to have happened from the beginning. It

01:45:41.199 --> 01:45:43.279
would have to be like there was never publicly

01:45:43.279 --> 01:45:46.220
traded companies from the beginning. All right.

01:45:46.239 --> 01:45:49.460
Think of a company you like. Coca -Cola. You

01:45:49.460 --> 01:45:51.529
like Coca -Cola? I like a little Diet Coke every

01:45:51.529 --> 01:45:53.369
now and then when I want some brain fog. All

01:45:53.369 --> 01:45:57.069
right. I don't want a nice taste in my mouth

01:45:57.069 --> 01:46:00.789
and an aspartame hangover. Okay. I'll think of

01:46:00.789 --> 01:46:03.529
another one. I don't know. Chevy. Chevy. Okay.

01:46:03.649 --> 01:46:08.470
Chevy. So I don't know. Without the ability to

01:46:08.470 --> 01:46:11.609
raise money in liquid capital markets, would

01:46:11.609 --> 01:46:15.090
Chevy have grown to what Chevy became? Or at

01:46:15.090 --> 01:46:18.050
least in the speed at which it did that then

01:46:18.050 --> 01:46:20.909
revolutionized automotive and other industries.

01:46:21.289 --> 01:46:23.710
Probably not. Maybe not. Yeah, maybe not. Maybe

01:46:23.710 --> 01:46:26.489
not. But you wonder, like if people were motivated

01:46:26.489 --> 01:46:28.729
and people were ambitious, and we always have

01:46:28.729 --> 01:46:31.510
been, you know, like if that wasn't a part of

01:46:31.510 --> 01:46:35.130
our economy. Yeah. I wonder. I bet it has a pretty

01:46:35.130 --> 01:46:36.770
big impact when you put it that way. You think

01:46:36.770 --> 01:46:41.449
about something as big as Chevy, you know. But

01:46:41.449 --> 01:46:45.960
it's just the motivation of money. is always

01:46:45.960 --> 01:46:49.840
going to be there. And if people ignore it because

01:46:49.840 --> 01:46:52.100
it's inconvenient and it doesn't align with their

01:46:52.100 --> 01:46:56.659
ideology, you've been captured. And this is why

01:46:56.659 --> 01:46:59.220
I think what you're talking about all the time

01:46:59.220 --> 01:47:02.039
is so hard for people that are true believers

01:47:02.039 --> 01:47:05.439
to swallow. Because it makes you have, you're

01:47:05.439 --> 01:47:07.479
forced to reformulate your entire worldview.

01:47:07.739 --> 01:47:10.939
If you've been duped that hard by something like

01:47:11.390 --> 01:47:15.569
The actual data on vaccine efficacy and, you

01:47:15.569 --> 01:47:17.430
know, who's really profiting and why it's set

01:47:17.430 --> 01:47:19.050
up the way it is and what the studies really

01:47:19.050 --> 01:47:21.170
are. When you realize you've been duped that

01:47:21.170 --> 01:47:24.850
hard, it's a hard pill to swallow for a lot of

01:47:24.850 --> 01:47:28.390
people. Absolutely. But I will say this. You

01:47:28.390 --> 01:47:30.710
don't need to go down a rabbit hole. OK, because

01:47:30.710 --> 01:47:32.189
that happens to a lot of people with vaccines.

01:47:32.289 --> 01:47:36.520
I've seen. Not the majority, not most, but it

01:47:36.520 --> 01:47:38.380
happens to some where it's like, oh, my goodness,

01:47:38.579 --> 01:47:41.840
if the government's lying or not telling me the

01:47:41.840 --> 01:47:45.300
truth about these products, then what can I believe?

01:47:45.760 --> 01:47:48.800
And, you know, people, some folks can go down

01:47:48.800 --> 01:47:52.659
some different alleys. And I would say that I

01:47:52.659 --> 01:47:56.520
really, truly, I have not seen anything like

01:47:56.520 --> 01:47:58.979
vaccines. Vaccines really are in their own bucket

01:47:58.979 --> 01:48:01.159
because of that immunity. It's what I call original

01:48:01.159 --> 01:48:05.329
sin in my book. There really is no product, no

01:48:05.329 --> 01:48:08.449
product that I'm aware of that operates in this

01:48:08.449 --> 01:48:12.189
kind of landscape. Like I said, every other product,

01:48:12.270 --> 01:48:15.869
the market force will, to varying degrees with

01:48:15.869 --> 01:48:19.069
wrinkles, correct for the issues because there's

01:48:19.069 --> 01:48:21.850
economic self -interest. They broke that with

01:48:21.850 --> 01:48:25.510
vaccines. So we've gone from three shots following

01:48:25.510 --> 01:48:29.279
in 1986, one before the first year of age. At

01:48:29.279 --> 01:48:31.479
the beginning of 2020 -25, you know how many

01:48:31.479 --> 01:48:33.880
shots it was that a baby got on or before their

01:48:33.880 --> 01:48:37.079
first birthday? Take a guess. 72. No, no, that's

01:48:37.079 --> 01:48:40.829
their whole childhood. 29. 29 by the first birthday?

01:48:40.989 --> 01:48:42.489
Yes, on or before the first birthday. It went

01:48:42.489 --> 01:48:46.369
from three to 29 shots, including in utero. Now,

01:48:46.369 --> 01:48:49.489
with the recent changes, it's down to 19. And

01:48:49.489 --> 01:48:52.069
the reason I focus on the first year, most of

01:48:52.069 --> 01:48:54.010
the shots in the first six months of life, is

01:48:54.010 --> 01:48:55.550
that's when the baby is going through really

01:48:55.550 --> 01:49:00.510
critical stages of... neurological immunological

01:49:00.510 --> 01:49:02.789
development right synapse and think how small

01:49:02.789 --> 01:49:06.550
a baby is okay and so um they're really susceptible

01:49:06.550 --> 01:49:09.770
to various effects also babies can't express

01:49:09.770 --> 01:49:12.090
what what's what's going wrong with them okay

01:49:12.090 --> 01:49:16.109
so now in the normal course okay in the normal

01:49:16.109 --> 01:49:19.090
course you've got a product you've gone from

01:49:19.090 --> 01:49:23.460
three of them in 1986 by the first year You're

01:49:23.460 --> 01:49:27.640
up to 29 beginning of 2025. Now you're at 19

01:49:27.640 --> 01:49:30.500
still. During that period, you've gone from under

01:49:30.500 --> 01:49:32.739
10 % of kids had a chronic health issue in the

01:49:32.739 --> 01:49:36.140
early 1980s, according to the data. You now have

01:49:36.140 --> 01:49:38.760
over 40%. Some data show over 50 % of kids having

01:49:38.760 --> 01:49:41.420
chronic health issues, often multiple times the

01:49:41.420 --> 01:49:44.420
rate, okay? And what are those chronic health

01:49:44.420 --> 01:49:46.760
issues that have exploded? To be sure, by the

01:49:46.760 --> 01:49:50.619
way, any environmental insult can cause dysregulation

01:49:50.619 --> 01:49:53.029
in the body, okay? including a pharmaceutical

01:49:53.029 --> 01:49:55.789
product, including vaccines. But when you look

01:49:55.789 --> 01:49:59.170
at those chronic diseases that have exploded,

01:49:59.390 --> 01:50:03.770
almost all of them have an etiology relating

01:50:03.770 --> 01:50:05.550
to some form of immune system dysregulation.

01:50:05.770 --> 01:50:08.970
Look at asthma. Look at atopic issues. Look at

01:50:08.970 --> 01:50:11.789
ticks. Look at ADHD. Nobody thinks about it this

01:50:11.789 --> 01:50:13.189
way, but if you look at the PubMed literature,

01:50:13.590 --> 01:50:17.289
there's immune markers that have gone awry in

01:50:17.289 --> 01:50:21.069
kids with ADHD, okay? So you look at that. Now,

01:50:21.620 --> 01:50:25.260
I'd say, okay, the lawyers, those who would hold

01:50:25.260 --> 01:50:26.760
these companies accountable, would look at that,

01:50:26.819 --> 01:50:28.439
and then they would start looking at the data.

01:50:28.680 --> 01:50:31.199
And I'll show you what some of the data shows.

01:50:31.619 --> 01:50:33.659
We talked about the Amish earlier, for example.

01:50:33.979 --> 01:50:37.880
The Amish that I represent in New York, there's

01:50:37.880 --> 01:50:40.819
three schools. The New York Health Department

01:50:40.819 --> 01:50:42.880
decided that it doesn't like what the Amish beliefs

01:50:42.880 --> 01:50:45.680
are. It wants the Amish to adopt their beliefs.

01:50:46.170 --> 01:50:48.770
and abandon their real religious beliefs and

01:50:48.770 --> 01:50:50.310
to give their kids these vaccines. Otherwise,

01:50:50.529 --> 01:50:53.010
they were going to impose crushing fines on these

01:50:53.010 --> 01:50:55.329
three Amish schools. Three schools, by the way,

01:50:55.390 --> 01:50:58.970
which means a room, no electricity, a teacher,

01:50:59.090 --> 01:51:01.829
you know what I mean? On Amish land, they don't

01:51:01.829 --> 01:51:03.770
take tax money. They pay taxes, but they refuse

01:51:03.770 --> 01:51:07.590
to take tax money taught by Amish teachers. And

01:51:07.590 --> 01:51:11.510
so amongst those families of those three schools,

01:51:11.630 --> 01:51:15.369
there was like 160 or something kids. And what

01:51:15.369 --> 01:51:18.609
we did is we did a survey. We asked them, what

01:51:18.609 --> 01:51:20.810
health conditions do those kids have, those 160

01:51:20.810 --> 01:51:23.189
kids? Many of them are already older, too. So

01:51:23.189 --> 01:51:25.869
you would know their health outcomes. And this

01:51:25.869 --> 01:51:27.630
is all in our court papers. It's all in a federal

01:51:27.630 --> 01:51:29.489
docket. Anybody can go and read it for themselves.

01:51:30.869 --> 01:51:33.949
Amongst those children, you would expect to have,

01:51:34.010 --> 01:51:35.829
because like 1 in 10 kids approximately have

01:51:35.829 --> 01:51:38.109
asthma, you would expect to have like 9 cases

01:51:38.109 --> 01:51:40.569
of asthma. You'd expect to have 6 cases of this,

01:51:40.630 --> 01:51:45.550
5 cases. They have none. Zero. of the chronic

01:51:45.550 --> 01:51:48.350
health conditions plaguing kids in America today.

01:51:48.649 --> 01:51:51.470
And the approximately 10 or so studies that have

01:51:51.470 --> 01:51:53.949
been done, and I'm bringing this back to my legal

01:51:53.949 --> 01:51:56.810
point, the approximately 10 or so studies that

01:51:56.810 --> 01:51:58.949
have done that compare kids with no exposure,

01:51:59.069 --> 01:52:01.489
meaning zero vaccines, to kids that have had

01:52:01.489 --> 01:52:05.989
one or more vaccines show the same outcome. Kids

01:52:05.989 --> 01:52:08.689
with zero vaccines, almost none of the chronic

01:52:08.689 --> 01:52:10.750
health issues that face kids today in America.

01:52:11.029 --> 01:52:14.119
Kids with one or more vaccines. multiple rates

01:52:14.119 --> 01:52:16.899
of the chronic health issues facing kids today.

01:52:17.140 --> 01:52:20.859
Now, that data all exists. I put those studies

01:52:20.859 --> 01:52:22.439
in my book. Anybody can read them. I even put

01:52:22.439 --> 01:52:24.039
the Amish information in my book. It's all cited.

01:52:24.119 --> 01:52:25.600
You can go look at it yourself if you're out

01:52:25.600 --> 01:52:28.180
there. Some of them are even on PubMed. The market

01:52:28.180 --> 01:52:30.460
could have corrected for that if you could hold

01:52:30.460 --> 01:52:32.579
those pharma companies accountable, but you can't.

01:52:34.279 --> 01:52:38.260
Is it correct that the only instances of autism

01:52:38.260 --> 01:52:43.560
they found in Amish kids were adopted kids? There

01:52:43.560 --> 01:52:47.500
are data and some reports that reflect that.

01:52:48.880 --> 01:52:54.300
So there are that. But those are more news reports.

01:52:54.539 --> 01:52:57.039
Somebody will criticize you, by the way. You're

01:52:57.039 --> 01:52:58.180
going to get criticism and say, well, that's

01:52:58.180 --> 01:53:00.140
not a peer -reviewed study. Well, I had a follow

01:53:00.140 --> 01:53:01.920
-up question that would maybe clarify. Yeah.

01:53:02.279 --> 01:53:07.659
And so we can move on to what does the peer -reviewed

01:53:07.659 --> 01:53:09.560
literature show, if you want. The follow -up

01:53:09.560 --> 01:53:11.739
question would be, are they even being diagnosed?

01:53:12.359 --> 01:53:15.500
So if they're getting Amish care and Amish teachers

01:53:15.500 --> 01:53:19.600
and Amish, is it possible that there are some

01:53:19.600 --> 01:53:22.520
kids that are just behaving odd that would be

01:53:22.520 --> 01:53:25.340
diagnosed? Like this is the criticism. Yes. People

01:53:25.340 --> 01:53:27.939
say like this is when you hear some mainstream

01:53:27.939 --> 01:53:30.600
suit talking on television. Well, there was always

01:53:30.600 --> 01:53:33.199
someone odd when we were kids. You know, there's

01:53:33.199 --> 01:53:35.720
no they just the diagnosis is different today.

01:53:35.819 --> 01:53:38.199
That's why it's one in 12 boys in California.

01:53:38.239 --> 01:53:41.149
They're over diagnosing. And I'm like, no. No,

01:53:41.189 --> 01:53:43.510
I have friends that have—I have multiple friends

01:53:43.510 --> 01:53:46.869
that have nonverbal children. I never had that

01:53:46.869 --> 01:53:49.550
when I was a kid. That was not normal. That was

01:53:49.550 --> 01:53:51.869
not a common thing. It was very, very, very rare.

01:53:52.090 --> 01:53:56.390
The notion that autism is just better diagnosed,

01:53:56.430 --> 01:53:58.930
and that's the only reason for the increase,

01:53:59.189 --> 01:54:02.369
is—I don't know a better word for it. I'm going

01:54:02.369 --> 01:54:06.850
to say nonsense, okay? Even if you look at the—

01:54:07.210 --> 01:54:09.350
Because they've changed the DSM -5, which is

01:54:09.350 --> 01:54:11.329
what we're up to, the Diagnostic Manual, that

01:54:11.329 --> 01:54:16.829
is the psychiatric manual that has the criteria

01:54:16.829 --> 01:54:19.229
for diagnosing autism. It has changed over time.

01:54:19.470 --> 01:54:22.270
But when you even just look at severe autism,

01:54:22.510 --> 01:54:25.109
just severe autism, which California has very

01:54:25.109 --> 01:54:28.989
good data on, from the 70s and onward into today,

01:54:29.090 --> 01:54:32.300
it's exploded. Okay, so the notion that we just

01:54:32.300 --> 01:54:35.060
have better diagnosis is not a serious point.

01:54:35.420 --> 01:54:38.100
But putting that aside, the Amish do go to doctors.

01:54:38.479 --> 01:54:40.939
Do they go to Amish doctors? No. Okay. They go

01:54:40.939 --> 01:54:44.060
to regular doctors. The Amish, for example, couldn't

01:54:44.060 --> 01:54:46.260
even go in a car. They just can't drive a car.

01:54:46.760 --> 01:54:48.859
So they can get an Uber? There's different—I

01:54:48.859 --> 01:54:50.939
should be more— Somebody orders it? I should

01:54:50.939 --> 01:54:53.720
be clearer about that. Just like every religion,

01:54:54.039 --> 01:54:57.859
there are different— you know, communities. And

01:54:57.859 --> 01:55:01.020
so there's like old, old line Amish and then

01:55:01.020 --> 01:55:03.439
there's old line Amish. And so, you know, in

01:55:03.439 --> 01:55:08.039
Christianity and Islam and Judaism and all different,

01:55:08.119 --> 01:55:09.420
you know, there's different degrees of black

01:55:09.420 --> 01:55:14.340
hat Jews and there's so forth. So in many respects,

01:55:14.460 --> 01:55:20.229
they do still go, but. You know, as I was told

01:55:20.229 --> 01:55:22.550
by one of the main folks who I interact with,

01:55:22.569 --> 01:55:24.689
and I've been up there and I've slept there and

01:55:24.689 --> 01:55:27.210
I've interacted with them. He told me, he said,

01:55:27.310 --> 01:55:29.789
yeah, you know, there are a few that mistake

01:55:29.789 --> 01:55:31.590
got some vaccines. And he goes, one of those

01:55:31.590 --> 01:55:34.130
kids, they just don't act right. He said to me,

01:55:34.189 --> 01:55:35.850
but we don't see that with our other kids. And

01:55:35.850 --> 01:55:37.170
I'll tell you this about the Amish community.

01:55:38.550 --> 01:55:43.770
They don't have phones. Not, you know, smartphones.

01:55:45.090 --> 01:55:47.729
They have old school phones, some of them. They

01:55:47.729 --> 01:55:50.789
don't have TVs. When they're with their kids,

01:55:51.010 --> 01:55:54.149
they're with their kids. When they're there at

01:55:54.149 --> 01:55:57.130
the end of the day, they really are so much more

01:55:57.130 --> 01:55:59.130
in tune. When I spend time with them and when

01:55:59.130 --> 01:56:01.090
I went up there, I mean, it's incredible, you

01:56:01.090 --> 01:56:05.569
know. It's a hard thing to experience, maybe

01:56:05.569 --> 01:56:08.890
for somebody who keeps like. Maybe the closest

01:56:08.890 --> 01:56:10.949
thing I think of is like those who observe the

01:56:10.949 --> 01:56:12.729
Sabbath biblically, you know, so they're just

01:56:12.729 --> 01:56:15.090
totally locked in. They lock in with their families

01:56:15.090 --> 01:56:18.130
for a day or things like that. And so they're

01:56:18.130 --> 01:56:20.050
very in tune with their kids. They know if those

01:56:20.050 --> 01:56:22.430
kids have health issues. And those kids don't

01:56:22.430 --> 01:56:25.819
have those issues. But forget the Amish. Go to

01:56:25.819 --> 01:56:27.880
the rest of the kids in the other studies that

01:56:27.880 --> 01:56:29.880
are not Amish studies. The 10 other studies that

01:56:29.880 --> 01:56:31.760
I just told you about, one is three pediatric

01:56:31.760 --> 01:56:35.000
practices that vaccinate unvaccinated kids. There

01:56:35.000 --> 01:56:38.239
are a whole line of studies of nothing to do

01:56:38.239 --> 01:56:40.779
with the Amish community. But if you do want

01:56:40.779 --> 01:56:44.399
to focus on autism, okay, which is just one potential

01:56:44.399 --> 01:56:50.220
issue from vaccines, by the way, what you find

01:56:50.220 --> 01:56:54.439
in the peer -reviewed literature, is that 40

01:56:54.439 --> 01:56:56.920
% to 70 % of parents who have a child with autism

01:56:56.920 --> 01:57:01.840
report, still report, that they believe vaccines

01:57:01.840 --> 01:57:04.619
cause their child's autism. Okay? 40 % to 70%.

01:57:04.619 --> 01:57:07.340
That's after how much billions of dollars to

01:57:07.340 --> 01:57:09.380
try to tell them and gaslight them and convince

01:57:09.380 --> 01:57:14.420
them that vaccines don't cause autism. Apparently,

01:57:14.560 --> 01:57:17.460
no matter how much you beat these families...

01:57:17.770 --> 01:57:19.569
They're just not going to change their lived

01:57:19.569 --> 01:57:23.090
experience. And what vaccines do they point to?

01:57:23.609 --> 01:57:25.670
They often, they point to the vaccines given

01:57:25.670 --> 01:57:27.210
in the first six months of life. When you ask

01:57:27.210 --> 01:57:28.670
them, what vaccines do you think cause your child's

01:57:28.670 --> 01:57:31.310
autism? They'll say the vaccines given in the

01:57:31.310 --> 01:57:33.489
first six months of life. And then they'll also

01:57:33.489 --> 01:57:35.449
point to MMR vaccine, which is given no earlier

01:57:35.449 --> 01:57:40.350
than one year of age. Okay. And so on behalf

01:57:40.350 --> 01:57:42.649
of ICANN, which is the informed consent action

01:57:42.649 --> 01:57:45.979
nonprofit that our law firm represents. We sent

01:57:45.979 --> 01:57:49.000
a Freedom of Information Act request, FOIA request,

01:57:49.380 --> 01:57:53.319
to the CDC, and we said, hey, your website says

01:57:53.319 --> 01:57:56.840
vaccines do not cause autism. Great. Please give

01:57:56.840 --> 01:57:59.319
us the studies that show that Hep B vaccine,

01:57:59.619 --> 01:58:01.760
given three times in the first six months of

01:58:01.760 --> 01:58:04.699
life, do not cause autism. Please give us the

01:58:04.699 --> 01:58:07.319
studies that show that DTaP vaccine, given three

01:58:07.319 --> 01:58:08.840
times in the first six months of life, do not

01:58:08.840 --> 01:58:12.439
cause autism. Same thing for IPV vaccine, for

01:58:12.439 --> 01:58:20.590
PCV vaccine. And for Hib vaccine. Okay. Each

01:58:20.590 --> 01:58:23.090
one of those vaccines is given three times each

01:58:23.090 --> 01:58:25.470
in the first six months of life. 15 injections.

01:58:26.550 --> 01:58:30.449
Okay. Okay. You say vaccines don't cause autism.

01:58:30.829 --> 01:58:34.569
These parents are saying these vaccines cause

01:58:34.569 --> 01:58:37.590
their child's autism. Provide us the studies.

01:58:37.949 --> 01:58:41.010
They never gave us the studies. I sued them in

01:58:41.010 --> 01:58:42.989
federal court. I didn't go to Texas. I sued them

01:58:42.989 --> 01:58:45.039
in Southern District of New York. Not the friendliest

01:58:45.039 --> 01:58:47.840
territory to bring that kind of lawsuit. Days

01:58:47.840 --> 01:58:53.600
before the hearing, I get a list of 20 studies

01:58:53.600 --> 01:58:56.779
finally, also from the DOJ, because they represent

01:58:56.779 --> 01:59:01.960
the CDC. Maybe they think I don't read. So I

01:59:01.960 --> 01:59:05.619
looked at the 20 studies. I read them. 19 of

01:59:05.619 --> 01:59:08.600
them have nothing to do with the vaccines given

01:59:08.600 --> 01:59:11.020
in the first six months of life. They were all

01:59:11.020 --> 01:59:14.260
either MMR studies. or studies of an ingredient

01:59:14.260 --> 01:59:17.779
that wasn't in those vaccines. One of them was

01:59:17.779 --> 01:59:22.239
an Institute of Medicine review from 2012 that

01:59:22.239 --> 01:59:24.720
canvassed all the literature on whether DTaP

01:59:24.720 --> 01:59:27.720
vaccine does or does not cause autism because

01:59:27.720 --> 01:59:31.340
the CDC and HRSA, which is the agency in HHS

01:59:31.340 --> 01:59:35.359
that fights vaccine injury claims, asked the

01:59:35.359 --> 01:59:37.699
IOM to look at whether DTaP causes autism because

01:59:37.699 --> 01:59:39.460
it remained one of the most commonly claimed

01:59:39.460 --> 01:59:43.810
injuries still, according to them. And the Institute

01:59:43.810 --> 01:59:46.149
of Medicine came back and said, we could only

01:59:46.149 --> 01:59:49.109
find one study on DTaP and autism. And in fact,

01:59:49.109 --> 01:59:52.670
it showed an association between vaccine, DTaP

01:59:52.670 --> 01:59:54.630
vaccine and autism. But the IBM threw it out

01:59:54.630 --> 01:59:56.229
because it said there's no unvaccinated control

01:59:56.229 --> 01:59:57.970
in it. So they threw out the studies based on

01:59:57.970 --> 02:00:01.029
VAERS data, if you know what that is. So I called

02:00:01.029 --> 02:00:03.909
up the DOJ attorney. This is days before the

02:00:03.909 --> 02:00:07.149
hearing. And I said, I got the list of 20 studies.

02:00:11.010 --> 02:00:14.859
I said, Are you sure that your client, the CDC,

02:00:15.140 --> 02:00:18.680
wants to settle this case basically on the basis

02:00:18.680 --> 02:00:20.819
that these are the studies they rely upon to

02:00:20.819 --> 02:00:24.119
claim that vaccines don't cause autism? The vaccines

02:00:24.119 --> 02:00:26.239
in the first six months of life do not cause

02:00:26.239 --> 02:00:28.279
autism. Because that's what the lawsuit was about,

02:00:28.359 --> 02:00:31.460
that FOIA request. He went, he called me back,

02:00:31.460 --> 02:00:32.739
and he said, yeah, they want to settle it. I

02:00:32.739 --> 02:00:36.680
said, all right. I gave him another chance. Those

02:00:36.680 --> 02:00:38.600
20 studies were put into a settlement agreement

02:00:38.600 --> 02:00:43.199
between the CDC and ICANN, my client. The DOJ

02:00:43.199 --> 02:00:45.039
signed it on behalf of the CDC. I signed it on

02:00:45.039 --> 02:00:46.779
behalf of my client. And a federal judge in the

02:00:46.779 --> 02:00:48.500
Southern District of New York entered as an order

02:00:48.500 --> 02:00:53.060
of the court in 2019, I believe it was. And there

02:00:53.060 --> 02:00:55.920
it was. I mean, I had done years and years of

02:00:55.920 --> 02:00:57.600
work fighting with them to try and figure out,

02:00:57.680 --> 02:01:00.079
show me the vaccines don't cause autism. This

02:01:00.079 --> 02:01:01.680
was the crescendo. This was the end. I mean,

02:01:01.699 --> 02:01:05.800
when their back was to the wall, they had nothing.

02:01:06.319 --> 02:01:10.000
There are no studies. They could not produce

02:01:10.000 --> 02:01:12.140
one that showed the vaccines given in the first

02:01:12.140 --> 02:01:15.680
six months of life do not cause autism. And here's

02:01:15.680 --> 02:01:18.340
the thing they left out. There is one study out

02:01:18.340 --> 02:01:21.159
there regarding hep B vaccines in autism. It's

02:01:21.159 --> 02:01:22.600
from Gallagher and Goodman out of the University

02:01:22.600 --> 02:01:24.140
of Stony Brook in the peer -reviewed literature.

02:01:24.319 --> 02:01:26.340
And it showed that kids that got hep B vaccine

02:01:26.340 --> 02:01:28.819
versus those that did in the first month of life

02:01:28.819 --> 02:01:31.180
had three times the rate of autism. Statistically

02:01:31.180 --> 02:01:34.140
significant. Gallagher, Goodman. University of

02:01:34.140 --> 02:01:36.239
Stony Brook. It's on PubMed. That is the only

02:01:36.239 --> 02:01:38.859
study of hep B vaccine and autism you will find

02:01:38.859 --> 02:01:40.020
in peer -reviewed literature. If you're going

02:01:40.020 --> 02:01:42.199
to do it based on the science, on the published

02:01:42.199 --> 02:01:44.079
literature, that's the only one out there. That

02:01:44.079 --> 02:01:46.039
DTaP vaccine study is the only one out there

02:01:46.039 --> 02:01:47.680
for DTaP given in the first six months of life.

02:01:48.060 --> 02:01:51.000
So when this narrative, which you hear all the

02:01:51.000 --> 02:01:55.100
time on these panels, on these news shows, vaccines

02:01:55.100 --> 02:01:59.140
do not cause autism, that has been thoroughly

02:01:59.140 --> 02:02:02.789
debunked. Where's that come from? Vaccines, amen.

02:02:04.310 --> 02:02:06.710
That's why I call my book Vaccines, Amen. The

02:02:06.710 --> 02:02:08.109
crowd cheers. Have you seen those live shows

02:02:08.109 --> 02:02:09.970
where crowds cheer? But this is what I'm talking

02:02:09.970 --> 02:02:12.930
about. This is why I wrote the book. I wrote

02:02:12.930 --> 02:02:16.750
the book because in 10 years that I have litigated

02:02:16.750 --> 02:02:20.329
100, 200 lawsuits against federal and state health

02:02:20.329 --> 02:02:23.170
agencies, that I have deposed the world's leading

02:02:23.170 --> 02:02:26.090
vaccinologists, including Dr. Stanley Plotkin.

02:02:26.170 --> 02:02:30.439
You go down the list. And chasing them when they're

02:02:30.439 --> 02:02:33.699
in a deposition, when they are back as against

02:02:33.699 --> 02:02:37.100
the wall in a federal or state lawsuit and they

02:02:37.100 --> 02:02:39.560
have no choice but to admit the truth or give

02:02:39.560 --> 02:02:41.840
the evidence, put up or shut up. What I have

02:02:41.840 --> 02:02:44.000
found is that the claims they make about vaccines

02:02:44.000 --> 02:02:48.100
versus the reality are completely different.

02:02:48.119 --> 02:02:50.739
And it is disjarring. When I came into this,

02:02:51.460 --> 02:02:55.100
I had you told me, yeah, they don't have any

02:02:55.100 --> 02:02:56.899
studies that show vaccines. don't cause autism

02:02:56.899 --> 02:02:58.600
the first six months. I'd be like, you're crazy.

02:02:58.979 --> 02:03:00.859
Get out of here. They tell you it's thoroughly

02:03:00.859 --> 02:03:03.939
debunked. Thoroughly studied. The most studied

02:03:03.939 --> 02:03:05.699
thing ever. They have a mountain of science.

02:03:05.800 --> 02:03:07.579
Joe, there's a mountain of studies. You know

02:03:07.579 --> 02:03:09.659
how big it is? It's so big. And you know what's

02:03:09.659 --> 02:03:11.539
on top of that mountain? Another mountain of

02:03:11.539 --> 02:03:13.199
studies. You know how much? Another mountain.

02:03:13.300 --> 02:03:15.979
There's so many studies. They're drowning in

02:03:15.979 --> 02:03:18.960
studies that vaccines don't cause autism. But

02:03:18.960 --> 02:03:22.659
then when you demand it, not the bull crap that

02:03:22.659 --> 02:03:25.859
they say on TV, but you actually demand it. That's

02:03:25.859 --> 02:03:27.880
the result. And you could pull it up on the Internet,

02:03:28.039 --> 02:03:32.239
by the way, that court stipulation. It's right

02:03:32.239 --> 02:03:35.100
there. You could also hear me depose Dr. Stanley

02:03:35.100 --> 02:03:36.739
Plotkin, the world's leading vaccinologist. Well,

02:03:36.779 --> 02:03:39.439
I said to him, I said, doctor, you know, and

02:03:39.439 --> 02:03:41.640
you have these clips on the Internet. I said,

02:03:41.659 --> 02:03:45.779
there's no studies that support that DTaP does

02:03:45.779 --> 02:03:48.199
not cause autism, right? And at first he said,

02:03:48.279 --> 02:03:50.060
well, I said, well, what do you think the IOM

02:03:50.060 --> 02:03:51.640
concluded? He goes, well, I would assume they

02:03:51.640 --> 02:03:53.220
said it doesn't. I showed it to him. He goes,

02:03:53.319 --> 02:03:55.479
oh. It's the world's leading vaccinologist. He

02:03:55.479 --> 02:03:57.359
didn't even know this. He goes, oh, okay, there

02:03:57.359 --> 02:03:59.760
are no studies. Okay. He goes, so I said, shouldn't

02:03:59.760 --> 02:04:01.979
you wait until you do? Shouldn't you wait until

02:04:01.979 --> 02:04:04.859
you have the studies that show that DTaP doesn't

02:04:04.859 --> 02:04:07.739
cause autism to then tell parents that vaccines

02:04:07.739 --> 02:04:09.800
don't cause autism? You know what he said to

02:04:09.800 --> 02:04:14.020
me? No. No, I don't wait. I don't wait because

02:04:14.020 --> 02:04:15.739
I have to take into account the health of the

02:04:15.739 --> 02:04:18.590
child, he said. I said, so for that reason. You're

02:04:18.590 --> 02:04:20.489
willing to tell parents that vaccines don't cause

02:04:20.489 --> 02:04:22.409
autism, even though you don't have the data to

02:04:22.409 --> 02:04:25.350
support it. He said, absolutely. You can play

02:04:25.350 --> 02:04:26.810
that clip if you want. It's on the Internet.

02:04:27.050 --> 02:04:30.369
And then I deposed in a case about vaccines and

02:04:30.369 --> 02:04:34.090
autism. It was about it. Dr. Catherine Edwards,

02:04:34.329 --> 02:04:37.390
who is one of the four, I guess, leading vaccinologists

02:04:37.390 --> 02:04:39.510
in the world, one of the four editors of the

02:04:39.510 --> 02:04:41.430
medical textbooks on vaccine, which is called

02:04:41.430 --> 02:04:44.710
Plotkin's Vaccines. I deposed her about vaccines

02:04:44.710 --> 02:04:47.100
and autism. And I said, do you have a study that

02:04:47.100 --> 02:04:48.899
shows hep B vaccine doesn't go to autism? This

02:04:48.899 --> 02:04:51.380
was after this court stipulation, the court order

02:04:51.380 --> 02:04:53.979
I told you about. She didn't have any for hep

02:04:53.979 --> 02:04:57.319
B, for the ones I just took the first six months

02:04:57.319 --> 02:05:01.100
of life. So, yes, they say on TV it's thoroughly

02:05:01.100 --> 02:05:05.479
debunked. But I'm telling you, that is a belief

02:05:05.479 --> 02:05:09.159
that is not science. That is not fact. It is

02:05:09.159 --> 02:05:13.229
not based on data. It is based on pure. And they

02:05:13.229 --> 02:05:16.130
say it just like they say, you know, Jesus Christ

02:05:16.130 --> 02:05:19.489
is Lord. I think they believe actually in vaccines

02:05:19.489 --> 02:05:21.810
more because they'll kick kids out of school

02:05:21.810 --> 02:05:25.510
in some archdioceses, even in some other Christian

02:05:25.510 --> 02:05:28.850
schools, far less. Most archdioceses won't if

02:05:28.850 --> 02:05:30.989
the kid won't get vaccine. So I actually think

02:05:30.989 --> 02:05:33.510
they believe in vaccines more than Jesus in some

02:05:33.510 --> 02:05:38.670
places, by the way. What an amazing job of gaslighting

02:05:38.670 --> 02:05:41.159
and propaganda they've done. But I just want

02:05:41.159 --> 02:05:43.840
to, I just got to be clear because anybody hearing

02:05:43.840 --> 02:05:45.539
this might think that that just sounds crazy.

02:05:46.180 --> 02:05:48.880
But I implore anybody who heard me say that,

02:05:48.979 --> 02:05:52.399
pull up the court order yourself. Look at it

02:05:52.399 --> 02:05:55.800
yourself. Watch the depositions. Go to PubMed.

02:05:56.180 --> 02:05:58.560
See for yourself. Oh, and by the way, do not

02:05:58.560 --> 02:06:01.039
rely on AI because I've done this fun job with

02:06:01.039 --> 02:06:03.159
them. I'm like, do you have B vaccines because

02:06:03.159 --> 02:06:05.920
autism? It's been thoroughly researched and there's

02:06:05.920 --> 02:06:07.600
no studies. I go, okay, great. So how do you,

02:06:07.600 --> 02:06:10.600
and I say to AI, I go. How do you reach a scientific

02:06:10.600 --> 02:06:12.159
conclusion? Well, you use peer -reviewed studies.

02:06:12.279 --> 02:06:14.359
I go, wonderful. So to conclude that hep B vaccine

02:06:14.359 --> 02:06:15.579
does not cause autism, you need peer -reviewed

02:06:15.579 --> 02:06:18.220
studies. That is correct. Wonderful. Now please

02:06:18.220 --> 02:06:21.159
put in a list these studies that show hep B vaccine

02:06:21.159 --> 02:06:29.359
does cause autism. Give me three studies. I've

02:06:29.359 --> 02:06:33.319
had chat GPT makeup studies. Literally, hep B

02:06:33.319 --> 02:06:34.880
vaccine does not cause... And I'm like, that

02:06:34.880 --> 02:06:37.180
doesn't exist. Give me the PubMed number. You

02:06:37.180 --> 02:06:39.920
are correct. I aim to provide a valid information.

02:06:40.020 --> 02:06:42.359
But in this instance, I fell short. Literally

02:06:42.359 --> 02:06:44.220
made up a... I'm not joking. Made up a study.

02:06:44.399 --> 02:06:47.800
That's crazy. I fell short. I lied to you. I've

02:06:47.800 --> 02:06:49.979
done this for fun with friends. And so I'm like,

02:06:49.979 --> 02:06:51.899
watch this, watch this. And finally, I'll get

02:06:51.899 --> 02:06:54.319
it to admit that the only study is the Gallagher

02:06:54.319 --> 02:06:56.560
and Goodman study. That is the only study. I

02:06:56.560 --> 02:06:58.460
will get it to admit. It takes about often...

02:06:58.479 --> 02:07:01.199
45 minutes to an hour. Really? Yeah. It takes

02:07:01.199 --> 02:07:03.579
a while, but it will eventually admit it. And

02:07:03.579 --> 02:07:05.300
they all do it. Grok does it too, by the way.

02:07:05.560 --> 02:07:08.220
Grok's better, by the way. Better? But it's bad

02:07:08.220 --> 02:07:11.659
too. And they will say, you know, on all of these

02:07:11.659 --> 02:07:15.180
questions, they will make stuff up. And unless

02:07:15.180 --> 02:07:17.359
you know, like, I know the universe of studies.

02:07:17.520 --> 02:07:19.220
I know it's bloody. Can I ask you this? Do you

02:07:19.220 --> 02:07:23.020
think that these large language models are programmed

02:07:23.020 --> 02:07:27.869
with certain truths that they can't? fight against

02:07:27.869 --> 02:07:29.989
or do you think it's because they're pulling

02:07:29.989 --> 02:07:32.729
from so much bullshit on the internet and so

02:07:32.729 --> 02:07:34.590
many bullshit narratives on the internet from

02:07:34.590 --> 02:07:36.989
trusted sources that'll tell you that vaccines

02:07:36.989 --> 02:07:39.609
don't cause autism like there's a ton of you

02:07:39.609 --> 02:07:43.529
know major newspapers major magazines there's

02:07:43.529 --> 02:07:45.590
a ton of them that have talked about how it's

02:07:45.590 --> 02:07:48.050
been thoroughly debunked and they'll quote doctors

02:07:48.050 --> 02:07:51.100
and scientists that don't list any specific studies,

02:07:51.260 --> 02:07:53.539
but they'll say we've done exhaustive studies.

02:07:53.699 --> 02:07:55.420
They've been thoroughly debunked. They'll say

02:07:55.420 --> 02:07:57.939
that and they'll print that. And so is the, is

02:07:57.939 --> 02:08:01.140
the AI just pulling from so much bullshit online

02:08:01.140 --> 02:08:03.760
that it like looks through all the noise and

02:08:03.760 --> 02:08:08.560
this is like 89 % say vaccines do not cause autism.

02:08:08.640 --> 02:08:12.020
Therefore it must be true. Or is it programmed

02:08:12.020 --> 02:08:15.779
to say, Hey, this is what you say. Vaccines don't

02:08:15.779 --> 02:08:18.659
cause autism. You must hold me in very high regard.

02:08:18.819 --> 02:08:22.340
You've held me to incredibly complex economic

02:08:22.340 --> 02:08:26.439
questions and now language model questions. You're

02:08:26.439 --> 02:08:27.920
a very smart guy. I appreciate the compliment

02:08:27.920 --> 02:08:33.460
so far on that score. With that said, I mean,

02:08:33.539 --> 02:08:36.840
I don't know the answer, but I will speculate

02:08:36.840 --> 02:08:40.460
because I don't know the answer. I'm going to

02:08:40.460 --> 02:08:44.460
guess, I'm really guessing, that it might be

02:08:44.460 --> 02:08:50.449
a mix of... Some programming, because Google,

02:08:50.670 --> 02:08:55.770
for example, I, you know, if you go and you search

02:08:55.770 --> 02:09:01.170
for Aaron Siri Substack, you get Paul Offit Substack.

02:09:01.369 --> 02:09:07.069
Why? How in the world do you get Paul Offit Substack

02:09:07.069 --> 02:09:10.569
when you search for mine? And mine's like. It's

02:09:10.569 --> 02:09:12.350
not even like on the first page. I don't think

02:09:12.350 --> 02:09:14.850
it's on the second. Now, maybe they fixed that.

02:09:14.909 --> 02:09:18.170
I don't know. So some of that. Is that using

02:09:18.170 --> 02:09:20.609
Google? That's using Google. Let's look right

02:09:20.609 --> 02:09:22.909
now. Last time I've done it. Let's do it right

02:09:22.909 --> 02:09:24.890
now. Let's do it right now. Let's do it. Because

02:09:24.890 --> 02:09:28.649
have you seen Robert Epstein's work? Robert Epstein's

02:09:28.649 --> 02:09:30.369
been on my podcast a few times. Unfortunate last

02:09:30.369 --> 02:09:32.909
name. But he has nothing to do with that. He

02:09:32.909 --> 02:09:35.210
is a data scientist. Well, I don't know what

02:09:35.210 --> 02:09:38.760
his original background is. What he does is he

02:09:38.760 --> 02:09:43.800
is very vocal about how they're using these coordinated

02:09:43.800 --> 02:09:47.640
– it's very curated search results. And through

02:09:47.640 --> 02:09:50.779
that, especially during election times, they

02:09:50.779 --> 02:09:54.140
can take a lot of people that are undecided voters

02:09:54.140 --> 02:09:57.260
and swing them a very noticeable number. Like

02:09:57.260 --> 02:09:58.920
I forget what the number was, but it's a large

02:09:58.920 --> 02:10:00.699
percentage, 10 percent, 20 percent, something

02:10:00.699 --> 02:10:03.359
like that. So if you Google something about,

02:10:03.439 --> 02:10:05.180
say, Hillary Clinton, for instance, during that

02:10:05.180 --> 02:10:07.180
first election, you would get all. these positive

02:10:07.180 --> 02:10:09.760
articles. If you Googled Trump, you would get

02:10:09.760 --> 02:10:13.079
all these negative articles. And if you asked

02:10:13.079 --> 02:10:15.739
it certain things, it would give you things that

02:10:15.739 --> 02:10:17.560
were completely contrary to that. So you'd look

02:10:17.560 --> 02:10:19.680
at that first. And I think that's you and Paul

02:10:19.680 --> 02:10:21.520
Offit. It could be. So let's find out. Maybe

02:10:21.520 --> 02:10:23.640
it's fixed at this point. How do you want me

02:10:23.640 --> 02:10:26.399
to word this? Aaron's series sub stack. Yeah,

02:10:26.399 --> 02:10:28.659
just do Aaron's series sub stack. Just do that

02:10:28.659 --> 02:10:31.319
on Google. Let's see what the results are. But

02:10:31.319 --> 02:10:33.500
while he's pulling that up, I'll add that. So

02:10:33.500 --> 02:10:35.500
this might be some of that. Again, I'm on speculation.

02:10:35.819 --> 02:10:38.739
territory. And then separately... So it goes

02:10:38.739 --> 02:10:40.380
right away to you. It goes right away to me this

02:10:40.380 --> 02:10:43.439
time. You know what it is? They got Jamie's fucking

02:10:43.439 --> 02:10:47.399
data and they know from your metadata. If you

02:10:47.399 --> 02:10:49.720
ask a question in a word way, it might come up

02:10:49.720 --> 02:10:54.699
differently. That's what I did. Try Aaron's Siri

02:10:54.699 --> 02:10:57.479
injecting freedom sub stack. See what happens.

02:10:57.659 --> 02:11:04.420
That could be the way we search for it. Oh. See,

02:11:04.500 --> 02:11:06.359
I'm telling you, when you add words, it kind

02:11:06.359 --> 02:11:08.579
of really fucks up all Google searches. Yeah,

02:11:08.680 --> 02:11:10.659
but I don't see Paul Offit in there. I don't

02:11:10.659 --> 02:11:12.260
see Paul Offit in there. Have you talked about

02:11:12.260 --> 02:11:14.760
this publicly before? No, never. Oh, too bad.

02:11:14.939 --> 02:11:18.500
No, I just did. This was actually literally just

02:11:18.500 --> 02:11:21.880
a few days ago. Well, I think one of the things

02:11:21.880 --> 02:11:24.579
that Robert Epstein, because he's been on my

02:11:24.579 --> 02:11:26.359
podcast, been on multiple podcasts, but he's

02:11:26.359 --> 02:11:28.279
been talking about the dangers of these curated

02:11:28.279 --> 02:11:31.579
search engines and how it's essentially election

02:11:31.579 --> 02:11:34.579
rigging. Speculating a statistically significant

02:11:34.579 --> 02:11:36.760
number of people to one side or the other, and

02:11:36.760 --> 02:11:39.000
you could do it by curating search engines. Well,

02:11:39.079 --> 02:11:42.560
the experiment we just did might reflect that

02:11:42.560 --> 02:11:46.180
my first theory might be less of that, right?

02:11:46.279 --> 02:11:47.939
Because, look, there it is. It's happenstance.

02:11:48.380 --> 02:11:50.460
That's why I said I have no idea. I'm speculating.

02:11:50.880 --> 02:11:53.960
But it could be – it could not. It could be also

02:11:53.960 --> 02:11:57.819
your own algorithm because maybe you were searching

02:11:57.819 --> 02:12:01.239
for Paul Offit. Maybe you had Googled Paul Offit's

02:12:01.239 --> 02:12:03.680
full of shit just before that. I don't need to

02:12:03.680 --> 02:12:08.420
Google that. I don't know when they've added

02:12:08.420 --> 02:12:11.039
this, but they definitely added on the screen

02:12:11.039 --> 02:12:13.479
what they call personalization for these results.

02:12:13.579 --> 02:12:16.220
Uh -huh. Results are personalized. Try without

02:12:16.220 --> 02:12:18.479
personalization. So that could have something

02:12:18.479 --> 02:12:20.020
to do with it. Interesting. Well, let's try it

02:12:20.020 --> 02:12:21.939
without personalization. Let's see if it changes.

02:12:22.670 --> 02:12:24.770
Well, I'm already done a different round. Oh,

02:12:24.949 --> 02:12:26.350
you already put Paul Offit in there? Yeah, I

02:12:26.350 --> 02:12:27.890
already started searching for that. So if you

02:12:27.890 --> 02:12:29.529
do without presenting, it doesn't delete the

02:12:29.529 --> 02:12:32.090
prior one? Interesting. Personalized. It knows

02:12:32.090 --> 02:12:33.649
you're a right winger. Well, they started using

02:12:33.649 --> 02:12:36.210
AI a long time ago. It knows you're a radical.

02:12:36.430 --> 02:12:39.649
But I would speculate that the probably bigger

02:12:39.649 --> 02:12:44.050
component is the who's got, again, it comes back

02:12:44.050 --> 02:12:46.550
to who's got the money to understand how these

02:12:46.550 --> 02:12:49.640
AI algorithms are worth and to maybe... put the

02:12:49.640 --> 02:12:51.260
stuff out there that it's going to most likely

02:12:51.260 --> 02:12:54.000
read from. I mean, when you do AI, you can get

02:12:54.000 --> 02:12:56.140
that. I see that like crazy scroll of all things

02:12:56.140 --> 02:12:58.140
it's looking at, right? Right. So if I've got,

02:12:58.180 --> 02:13:01.199
if I am a pharma company and I've got a multi

02:13:01.199 --> 02:13:03.920
-billion dollar budget every year to influence

02:13:03.920 --> 02:13:06.939
and to market and so forth, you know, I'm going

02:13:06.939 --> 02:13:09.340
to deploy that in the way that's probably the

02:13:09.340 --> 02:13:11.079
most effective. One of the things I probably

02:13:11.079 --> 02:13:15.439
would do is maybe do the things that would influence

02:13:15.439 --> 02:13:18.460
the results on AI, potentially. Yeah, I would

02:13:18.460 --> 02:13:21.680
too. Especially if there's no regulations. That's

02:13:21.680 --> 02:13:24.460
the weird thing about curating search engines.

02:13:24.560 --> 02:13:26.420
If it's like your search engine, you can kind

02:13:26.420 --> 02:13:28.819
of do whatever you want, especially if your company

02:13:28.819 --> 02:13:33.039
– wasn't it like one of the major tech companies

02:13:33.039 --> 02:13:35.739
after Donald Trump won in 2016 that had a meeting?

02:13:35.859 --> 02:13:37.500
They were like, we can't let this happen again.

02:13:37.739 --> 02:13:40.420
Was that Facebook or Google? Do you remember,

02:13:40.479 --> 02:13:42.939
Jamie? It was like very famous that people were

02:13:42.939 --> 02:13:44.939
like, what are you talking about? You – what?

02:13:45.920 --> 02:13:48.399
How can you say that? How could you even say

02:13:48.399 --> 02:13:50.859
that? Even if you you're right. Like the idea

02:13:50.859 --> 02:13:54.260
that you can somehow or other stop someone from

02:13:54.260 --> 02:13:57.020
being elected if the public wants that person

02:13:57.020 --> 02:13:59.439
to be elected because you disagree with it is

02:13:59.439 --> 02:14:02.100
kind of a crazy thing to say out loud. Well,

02:14:02.220 --> 02:14:04.300
you know, I'm thinking more about your question.

02:14:04.720 --> 02:14:07.460
So when we found that thing with Paul Offit,

02:14:07.460 --> 02:14:09.420
we found the thing with Paul Offit a few days

02:14:09.420 --> 02:14:12.460
ago. My social media manager, Mike and my I've

02:14:12.460 --> 02:14:14.810
got, you know. got a lot of folks at my law firm.

02:14:15.149 --> 02:14:17.409
And we have somebody who does like Google AdWords

02:14:17.409 --> 02:14:20.569
stuff and SEO stuff. And then we have another

02:14:20.569 --> 02:14:24.189
guy who does the web related stuff. I know they

02:14:24.189 --> 02:14:26.630
did some things and maybe with my little measly

02:14:26.630 --> 02:14:30.170
budget, it had that effect. And so Matt, so if

02:14:30.170 --> 02:14:33.229
that would go to my second point that with enough

02:14:33.229 --> 02:14:35.609
dollar and who cares about my, I mean, I don't

02:14:35.609 --> 02:14:37.170
think pharma cares about my sub stack. Trust

02:14:37.170 --> 02:14:40.250
me, they're not scared of my sub stack. I don't

02:14:40.250 --> 02:14:43.029
know about that because even if you don't have

02:14:43.029 --> 02:14:46.409
a ton of subscribers, it's still out there. And

02:14:46.409 --> 02:14:49.810
all it takes is one podcast appearance like this

02:14:49.810 --> 02:14:52.909
one and people go there. And then all it takes

02:14:52.909 --> 02:14:55.970
is one investigative reporter to talk about it.

02:14:57.320 --> 02:15:00.699
It's a weird time for stuff like that. Let's

02:15:00.699 --> 02:15:03.619
see if two weeks from now it goes back. They'll

02:15:03.619 --> 02:15:05.300
never put it back. They'll never put it back.

02:15:05.359 --> 02:15:07.239
But if you guys did do something about it, that

02:15:07.239 --> 02:15:10.020
does make sense. They corrected it. You complained

02:15:10.020 --> 02:15:12.659
about it. Well, no. I think that they had brought

02:15:12.659 --> 02:15:15.159
up doing keywords and stuff like that because

02:15:15.159 --> 02:15:18.779
there was some emails about, I remember trying

02:15:18.779 --> 02:15:21.279
to fix it. I'm amazed at it. It looks like it

02:15:21.279 --> 02:15:24.840
did. Well, I don't want that smoke. So maybe

02:15:24.840 --> 02:15:26.880
it's, you know, it just kind of shows you. They

02:15:26.880 --> 02:15:28.880
just need to be, yeah, shine light on it. It's

02:15:28.880 --> 02:15:32.970
the best disinfection, sunlight. I just don't

02:15:32.970 --> 02:15:35.529
like the idea of curated search engines. It's

02:15:35.529 --> 02:15:38.789
really spooky. It's no different to me than curating

02:15:38.789 --> 02:15:41.250
information on social media platforms based on

02:15:41.250 --> 02:15:42.949
whatever your ideology is. Like, I don't think

02:15:42.949 --> 02:15:45.329
you should be able to do that in terms of, like,

02:15:45.390 --> 02:15:47.069
I don't think the company should be able to tell

02:15:47.069 --> 02:15:49.829
you you can't see certain things. And YouTube

02:15:49.829 --> 02:15:51.569
was terrible about that during the pandemic.

02:15:51.729 --> 02:15:54.229
All the things that turned out to be true could

02:15:54.229 --> 02:15:56.189
have got you banned from YouTube. The lab leak

02:15:56.189 --> 02:16:00.439
theory kicked off. You know, the fact that the

02:16:00.439 --> 02:16:03.079
vaccines, even if you get vaccinated, you still

02:16:03.079 --> 02:16:05.520
can catch COVID. Remember that was a breakthrough

02:16:05.520 --> 02:16:09.640
infection. It was extremely rare. Extremely rare

02:16:09.640 --> 02:16:13.100
breakthrough infection. Never heard of it. And

02:16:13.100 --> 02:16:14.880
now it's everybody. Literally everybody. And

02:16:14.880 --> 02:16:17.380
then it became this weird fucking, everybody

02:16:17.380 --> 02:16:19.520
did these weird mental gymnastics where they

02:16:19.520 --> 02:16:22.680
started repeating, oh, but it stops hospitalization

02:16:22.680 --> 02:16:25.699
and death. And like, what are you talking about?

02:16:25.739 --> 02:16:29.199
You never said that before. are saying that they

02:16:29.199 --> 02:16:31.460
were saying it stops hospitalization and death,

02:16:31.579 --> 02:16:33.379
and you don't even have anything to gain here.

02:16:33.559 --> 02:16:35.680
You just don't want to be wrong about your decision

02:16:35.680 --> 02:16:38.680
to get injected and to promote it, which is nuts.

02:16:38.840 --> 02:16:41.299
It's like people are doing the man's work for

02:16:41.299 --> 02:16:44.260
the man. They've signed up as volunteers in the

02:16:44.260 --> 02:16:47.579
propaganda army. And shaming all the people that

02:16:47.579 --> 02:16:50.739
didn't go along with it and never apologizing.

02:16:50.739 --> 02:16:53.920
No one wants to apologize for calling people

02:16:53.920 --> 02:16:56.559
plague rats and telling people that they should

02:16:56.559 --> 02:16:59.020
have their children taken away from them. Nutty,

02:16:59.020 --> 02:17:02.780
weird, dystopian shit. They don't realize that

02:17:02.780 --> 02:17:06.219
they are creating more vaccine hesitancy with

02:17:06.219 --> 02:17:09.000
that kind of conduct than anything that you and

02:17:09.000 --> 02:17:12.180
I could do on this podcast at all. Because, you

02:17:12.180 --> 02:17:15.379
know, and like they say, you know, the CDC. The

02:17:15.379 --> 02:17:17.139
CDC webpage on vaccines and autism has now been

02:17:17.139 --> 02:17:20.719
updated, and it says now that there's effectively

02:17:20.719 --> 02:17:22.600
no studies to show the vaccines in the first

02:17:22.600 --> 02:17:24.299
six months of life do not cause autism. It now

02:17:24.299 --> 02:17:28.020
says that, and that the CDC has misled the public

02:17:28.020 --> 02:17:32.700
on that score, and people trashed, the mainstream

02:17:32.700 --> 02:17:36.139
media trashed Bobby for that. while instead of

02:17:36.139 --> 02:17:39.180
celebrating it as an opportunity to correct course

02:17:39.180 --> 02:17:42.399
of transparency. Honestly, people are more likely

02:17:42.399 --> 02:17:44.879
to trust our federal health agencies when they're

02:17:44.879 --> 02:17:47.100
honest, when they're apologized, when they're

02:17:47.100 --> 02:17:49.639
willing to admit mistakes. They're not there

02:17:49.639 --> 02:17:51.920
yet, though, unfortunately. No, because it's

02:17:51.920 --> 02:17:54.920
still a part of their political ideology. It's

02:17:54.920 --> 02:17:58.059
a part of their clan. And they don't even think

02:17:58.059 --> 02:17:59.899
about it. They don't look into it. They don't

02:17:59.899 --> 02:18:02.479
read any studies. They don't read any synopsis

02:18:02.479 --> 02:18:04.850
of any studies. They just go full bore. ahead.

02:18:05.290 --> 02:18:07.850
It's been thoroughly debunked and they'll argue

02:18:07.850 --> 02:18:09.850
with you. It's been thoroughly debunked. This

02:18:09.850 --> 02:18:11.489
is all nonsense. Do you know how many depositions

02:18:11.489 --> 02:18:14.010
I've taken of vaccinologists, pediatricians,

02:18:14.010 --> 02:18:16.149
infectious disease experts, immunologists, where

02:18:16.149 --> 02:18:19.370
I will say something about this, you know, these

02:18:19.370 --> 02:18:21.610
studies show that, for example, the studies show

02:18:21.610 --> 02:18:24.350
that children that have had cancer and measles

02:18:24.350 --> 02:18:26.090
have lower rate of cancers and they'll go out.

02:18:26.149 --> 02:18:27.930
That's just nonsense. Those studies are just

02:18:27.930 --> 02:18:33.030
junk. I'll say, have you read the studies? No.

02:18:33.149 --> 02:18:35.649
Have you seen them? No, but see, but they knew

02:18:35.649 --> 02:18:39.329
already. You know, they've already reached that

02:18:39.329 --> 02:18:41.610
a priori conclusion. I remember my deposition,

02:18:41.610 --> 02:18:44.729
not to go back to autism, of Dr. Edwards, where

02:18:44.729 --> 02:18:47.290
I said to her, you have any studies show that

02:18:47.290 --> 02:18:48.969
hep B vaccine does not cause autism? She said,

02:18:49.030 --> 02:18:52.770
no. I said, but there is a study that shows three

02:18:52.770 --> 02:18:54.989
times rate of autism amongst kids that didn't

02:18:54.989 --> 02:18:57.270
get hep B vaccine. And she says, well, I don't

02:18:57.270 --> 02:18:58.989
think that's, that's not a good study. I said,

02:18:59.010 --> 02:19:03.649
what study is that? She goes. Why don't you show

02:19:03.649 --> 02:19:06.430
me the study? Because she hadn't read it. She

02:19:06.430 --> 02:19:08.870
doesn't know. Why don't you show me the study?

02:19:10.370 --> 02:19:15.850
That's because it doesn't fit within the belief

02:19:15.850 --> 02:19:17.610
system, unfortunately, when it comes to this.

02:19:17.729 --> 02:19:20.649
And it's so easy because, like you said, all

02:19:20.649 --> 02:19:22.389
you got to do is just say, eh, they're just an

02:19:22.389 --> 02:19:27.159
anti -vaxxer. Exactly. And it's all – when you

02:19:27.159 --> 02:19:29.520
have a company, like whatever company it is,

02:19:29.579 --> 02:19:31.139
whether it's Google or Facebook or whatever,

02:19:31.280 --> 02:19:34.120
and that company operates on an ideology that's

02:19:34.120 --> 02:19:36.200
not grounded in reality and then they enforce

02:19:36.200 --> 02:19:40.729
it across their platform. It's very frustrating

02:19:40.729 --> 02:19:43.610
and really nutty to watch. And just thank God

02:19:43.610 --> 02:19:47.409
there exists some alternatives. Like you would

02:19:47.409 --> 02:19:49.450
need a you need a crazy person worth a ton of

02:19:49.450 --> 02:19:52.750
money like Elon to just go and buy it and then

02:19:52.750 --> 02:19:55.690
also show, hey, it's still the number one platform

02:19:55.690 --> 02:19:58.350
for distributing information. In the same way

02:19:58.350 --> 02:20:01.649
that what what Elon did for social media, if

02:20:01.649 --> 02:20:04.540
he could do that for search. That'd be great.

02:20:04.579 --> 02:20:07.600
But I think search is dying. I don't think AI

02:20:07.600 --> 02:20:11.260
is going to take over. I hardly ever search things

02:20:11.260 --> 02:20:12.959
anymore. Everybody goes to AI these days from

02:20:12.959 --> 02:20:14.780
what I could see. Because I can ask a question.

02:20:14.979 --> 02:20:17.239
Like, how did this come about? I could ask follow

02:20:17.239 --> 02:20:20.200
-ups. Are there any dissenting opinions? I love

02:20:20.200 --> 02:20:22.340
doing that. It's good, but it also requires less

02:20:22.340 --> 02:20:24.260
thinking. So it's bad in that regard. But yes.

02:20:24.479 --> 02:20:26.000
Well, it depends on how you're using it. When

02:20:26.000 --> 02:20:27.760
I'm using it is usually when I'm writing. I'm

02:20:27.760 --> 02:20:29.319
writing about a certain subject. I'm like, well,

02:20:29.399 --> 02:20:32.520
who were the first people to discover these Aztec

02:20:32.520 --> 02:20:34.420
pyramids? I'll get into something like that.

02:20:34.479 --> 02:20:36.100
Like, what were they looking for? Like, you know

02:20:36.100 --> 02:20:37.760
what I mean? And like, it's almost like you're

02:20:37.760 --> 02:20:40.899
talking to an expert. So instead of... It being

02:20:40.899 --> 02:20:43.579
like something that I use to think for me. It's

02:20:43.579 --> 02:20:45.780
like a super smart friend I'm bouncing questions

02:20:45.780 --> 02:20:49.559
off of. You could find so much about things so

02:20:49.559 --> 02:20:52.180
quickly as opposed to having to go through article

02:20:52.180 --> 02:20:54.299
after article after article. And that's what

02:20:54.299 --> 02:20:56.860
I'm looking for. How did he trick those people

02:20:56.860 --> 02:20:59.059
and give them up their land? There's only fucking

02:20:59.059 --> 02:21:01.700
600 of them. How'd they do that? You know, like

02:21:01.700 --> 02:21:06.000
AI is fantastic for that kind of shit. But if

02:21:06.000 --> 02:21:08.040
you're using it all day, like a lot of kids in

02:21:08.040 --> 02:21:11.760
my school, my kids. are getting busted for writing

02:21:11.760 --> 02:21:16.540
papers that are 100 % AI. Like, they were a moron.

02:21:18.879 --> 02:21:22.159
Seventh grade. It's like PhD genius level paper.

02:21:23.760 --> 02:21:26.600
Also, these 12 -year -olds are fucking wizards.

02:21:27.120 --> 02:21:30.239
It's hilarious. It's not good. That's not good.

02:21:30.379 --> 02:21:32.579
You saw those studies that came out. Again, not

02:21:32.579 --> 02:21:35.120
my area, and I don't know. I've only read the

02:21:35.120 --> 02:21:39.350
abstracts. I don't know. The more that technology

02:21:39.350 --> 02:21:41.649
has been adopted into classrooms, it appears

02:21:41.649 --> 02:21:44.030
the more detrimental it has been and actually

02:21:44.030 --> 02:21:47.590
the markers of what you would consider an educated

02:21:47.590 --> 02:21:50.909
or education or intelligence. 100%. It's a distraction.

02:21:51.290 --> 02:21:53.549
It's like there's no way it could be good. You're

02:21:53.549 --> 02:21:55.870
on TikTok all day. But if you're using AI, the

02:21:55.870 --> 02:21:57.770
one thing I will say, depending on the topic,

02:21:57.850 --> 02:21:58.969
but you probably should do it for all topics,

02:21:59.010 --> 02:22:02.370
is. Never just rely on the output. You got to

02:22:02.370 --> 02:22:05.010
ask, show me the primary source and look at it

02:22:05.010 --> 02:22:07.229
yourself. It's so critical in every area. Especially

02:22:07.229 --> 02:22:09.750
if it's something controversial. I mean, generally

02:22:09.750 --> 02:22:11.729
I'm asking questions about something I'm looking

02:22:11.729 --> 02:22:14.010
up that's not that controversial in terms of

02:22:14.010 --> 02:22:15.989
like whether or not it's argued. You ever look

02:22:15.989 --> 02:22:18.909
up yourself? No. No, why not? Jesus Christ. I

02:22:18.909 --> 02:22:20.850
don't look up myself ever because I don't want

02:22:20.850 --> 02:22:22.590
to know. I don't want to know people's opinions.

02:22:22.690 --> 02:22:24.770
I don't want to know what it thinks of me. I

02:22:24.770 --> 02:22:27.020
couldn't care less. I think it's much better

02:22:27.020 --> 02:22:30.020
to just keep on going. If you're in a public

02:22:30.020 --> 02:22:33.620
eye, including you now, everyone is subject to

02:22:33.620 --> 02:22:35.639
an opinion. And there are certain opinions that

02:22:35.639 --> 02:22:38.340
are just – they're not people that you would

02:22:38.340 --> 02:22:42.219
ever want to talk to. And those kind of people

02:22:42.219 --> 02:22:44.680
exist. There's going to be shitty people out

02:22:44.680 --> 02:22:47.379
there. And their opinion written down looks just

02:22:47.379 --> 02:22:50.000
like your opinion. Better to not have any of

02:22:50.000 --> 02:22:53.420
it. Better to not watch any videos. Better to

02:22:53.420 --> 02:22:58.100
not listen to anything. Be a good internal judge.

02:22:58.420 --> 02:23:01.440
Be objective about your own self and be self

02:23:01.440 --> 02:23:03.639
-critical to the point where it's healthy and

02:23:03.639 --> 02:23:06.340
leave it alone. I was talking to this the other

02:23:06.340 --> 02:23:08.000
day. I was watching this lady who was this very

02:23:08.000 --> 02:23:11.040
boring, not very exciting lady talking about

02:23:11.040 --> 02:23:13.940
how bad the Beatles were. And I was like, you

02:23:13.940 --> 02:23:18.639
should shut the fuck up. The Beatles are incredible.

02:23:19.059 --> 02:23:21.739
You're just a moron. You're just a dull -brained.

02:23:22.320 --> 02:23:24.979
Fucking dork just wandering through life. But

02:23:24.979 --> 02:23:26.440
you're allowed to. You're allowed to have those

02:23:26.440 --> 02:23:28.879
opinions. It's like good luck finding a bunch

02:23:28.879 --> 02:23:30.700
of people that agree with you, but you're allowed

02:23:30.700 --> 02:23:33.379
to try. But I don't want to be a part of it.

02:23:33.440 --> 02:23:36.280
I don't want to be washing, swimming through

02:23:36.280 --> 02:23:38.700
bullshit opinions all day long. I don't think

02:23:38.700 --> 02:23:43.479
it's healthy. But I do think facing the opinions

02:23:43.479 --> 02:23:46.559
and the views, substantive opinions, views of

02:23:46.559 --> 02:23:47.899
those that don't agree with you is an important

02:23:47.899 --> 02:23:51.170
exercise in life and in any... In every area,

02:23:51.229 --> 02:23:54.549
frankly. I mean, I'm, you know, when it comes

02:23:54.549 --> 02:23:57.930
to the work that I do, you know, I welcome having

02:23:57.930 --> 02:24:00.909
debates with those who claim they are the vaccine

02:24:00.909 --> 02:24:03.170
experts. I mean, I'm. Well, this is we're talking

02:24:03.170 --> 02:24:04.469
about a very different kind of thing and looking

02:24:04.469 --> 02:24:06.610
at yourself. Yeah, you're looking up hard line

02:24:06.610 --> 02:24:09.690
data. And it's very important what you do, because

02:24:09.690 --> 02:24:13.629
it's. Crazy to say that being honest in this

02:24:13.629 --> 02:24:16.190
regard is courageous. But it is courageous because

02:24:16.190 --> 02:24:19.510
I've seen you attacked. I've seen crazy shit

02:24:19.510 --> 02:24:22.969
that people said about you. And it's like, good

02:24:22.969 --> 02:24:25.309
Lord, are you paying attention to what he's actually

02:24:25.309 --> 02:24:29.770
saying? Or are you some bot from somewhere, some

02:24:29.770 --> 02:24:33.229
fucking bot farm in Vietnam that's been hired

02:24:33.229 --> 02:24:38.629
to push a narrative? I don't know. But there's

02:24:38.629 --> 02:24:42.399
a reality to data. That's undeniable that needs

02:24:42.399 --> 02:24:44.860
to be promoted. And I think that's what you're

02:24:44.860 --> 02:24:48.219
doing. It's a reality to the data. I don't imagine

02:24:48.219 --> 02:24:51.719
a whole lot of people are lining up to debate

02:24:51.719 --> 02:24:55.520
you about this. Well, Paul Offit and I had an

02:24:55.520 --> 02:24:57.700
exchange on the internet. First, we had it on

02:24:57.700 --> 02:25:00.819
Twitter. In person? No, he won't do it. Yeah,

02:25:01.000 --> 02:25:02.500
that's what I'm talking about. And then he moved

02:25:02.500 --> 02:25:04.399
it onto Substack, and it's all there. It's a

02:25:04.399 --> 02:25:08.760
great exchange. And I've offered him. Just to

02:25:08.760 --> 02:25:11.899
be clear, not like a gotcha debate. I've offered

02:25:11.899 --> 02:25:15.260
him to have a debate where we each get 10 minutes,

02:25:15.399 --> 02:25:18.079
10 minutes, 10 minutes, and we each get to present

02:25:18.079 --> 02:25:21.340
the evidence. So we have a screen. We can put

02:25:21.340 --> 02:25:23.120
up our evidence and we can go back and forth.

02:25:23.629 --> 02:25:25.709
With equal amount of time so nobody's talking

02:25:25.709 --> 02:25:28.790
over each other. It's civil and it's based on

02:25:28.790 --> 02:25:30.809
the substance. I've offered him to do that. But

02:25:30.809 --> 02:25:32.709
the truth is I don't need to debate him. I've

02:25:32.709 --> 02:25:34.549
already debated the world's leading vaccinologist,

02:25:34.729 --> 02:25:37.110
Dr. Stanley Plotkin, in a nine -hour deposition.

02:25:37.430 --> 02:25:40.450
People talk about, we should have a vaccine debate.

02:25:40.729 --> 02:25:42.309
Well, I've done that. That was it. It's nine

02:25:42.309 --> 02:25:44.629
hours. It's all on the internet and you can watch

02:25:44.629 --> 02:25:47.350
it. And when my client put it out there and it

02:25:47.350 --> 02:25:50.030
ended up on YouTube. This was many years ago.

02:25:50.129 --> 02:25:52.409
It had like millions of views at one point. And

02:25:52.409 --> 02:25:54.889
then YouTube took it off. And then people keep

02:25:54.889 --> 02:25:57.069
putting it back on. And it's just a deposition.

02:25:57.389 --> 02:25:59.489
It just keeps coming back and forth and back

02:25:59.489 --> 02:26:01.649
and forth. Why are they taking it? YouTube, leave

02:26:01.649 --> 02:26:03.489
it up. Stop. Well, I don't know if they're still

02:26:03.489 --> 02:26:06.030
taking it down right now. I hope now the climate's

02:26:06.030 --> 02:26:08.729
changed enough. It used to take it on and down.

02:26:08.930 --> 02:26:11.530
And I've done Senate hearings where they've...

02:26:12.000 --> 02:26:13.399
But those vaccinologists, they don't want to

02:26:13.399 --> 02:26:16.620
show up anymore. I offered Peter Hotez that opportunity

02:26:16.620 --> 02:26:18.959
on the podcast. And I told him I would donate

02:26:18.959 --> 02:26:21.239
$100 ,000 to whatever charity of his choice.

02:26:21.620 --> 02:26:23.940
And he, like, mocked that number as being insignificant.

02:26:24.200 --> 02:26:25.799
I'm like, well, tell me what the fucking number

02:26:25.799 --> 02:26:28.799
is. Like, just come on. And I was going to have

02:26:28.799 --> 02:26:30.639
him and RFK Jr. Because he was talking about

02:26:30.639 --> 02:26:32.559
me having RFK Jr. on. They're saying a bunch

02:26:32.559 --> 02:26:34.940
of lies. And, like, well, instead of saying that.

02:26:35.180 --> 02:26:39.000
And I think he. God, I forget what term he used

02:26:39.000 --> 02:26:40.940
for me. I'm like, Peter, you've been on my podcast

02:26:40.940 --> 02:26:43.120
twice. So what the fuck are you talking about?

02:26:43.239 --> 02:26:44.920
Like why are you behaving like this? This is

02:26:44.920 --> 02:26:50.459
crazy. What did he call me? Like it was something

02:26:50.459 --> 02:26:58.979
about some alt -right adjacent or. Neo -fascist

02:26:58.979 --> 02:27:01.360
adjacent podcast. The point is it was ad hominem

02:27:01.360 --> 02:27:03.319
instead of substance. You gave him an opportunity

02:27:03.319 --> 02:27:05.680
to show he was right in front of the world. He

02:27:05.680 --> 02:27:09.719
is the vaccinologist. Bobby, just a lawyer, obviously

02:27:09.719 --> 02:27:12.760
will drool on himself. Like, debate him. What's

02:27:12.760 --> 02:27:15.700
the big deal? I only did this after he did that.

02:27:15.940 --> 02:27:20.180
I didn't. He said all this stuff about me because

02:27:20.180 --> 02:27:22.340
Bobby was on the podcast. And it was one of the

02:27:22.340 --> 02:27:26.040
rare times that I ever go after anyone on Twitter.

02:27:26.120 --> 02:27:28.309
But I was like, stop. Why are you saying that?

02:27:28.370 --> 02:27:30.450
This is stupid. And I remember a whole bunch

02:27:30.450 --> 02:27:32.809
of people added in. They were willing to add.

02:27:32.950 --> 02:27:35.750
I forgot the number. It was in like a million,

02:27:35.909 --> 02:27:38.149
two million. It was in the millions. And he still

02:27:38.149 --> 02:27:40.549
would not sit down and do it. And the argument

02:27:40.549 --> 02:27:42.110
that you'll often hear is they'll say, well,

02:27:42.229 --> 02:27:45.829
I'm not good at debating. He's a lawyer. He'll

02:27:45.829 --> 02:27:49.159
use lawyer tricks. Peter Hotez is a lawyer? No,

02:27:49.180 --> 02:27:50.819
no, no, no. Oh, he's a lawyer. Bobby's a lawyer.

02:27:50.860 --> 02:27:52.840
Bobby's a lawyer. Or they'll say that he's a

02:27:52.840 --> 02:27:55.819
lawyer or I'm a lawyer, you know. And what they

02:27:55.819 --> 02:28:00.020
don't, but, you know. Data wins. Exactly. And

02:28:00.020 --> 02:28:02.219
I would let that data win. The substance should

02:28:02.219 --> 02:28:05.219
win. If you're right, I want to know. I don't

02:28:05.219 --> 02:28:07.420
fucking know. You tell me. I'm willing to debate

02:28:07.420 --> 02:28:09.540
Peter Hotez here any day. I don't think he's

02:28:09.540 --> 02:28:12.540
going to do it. I'll pull off it. Any of them.

02:28:12.559 --> 02:28:15.000
In fact, Stanley Plotkin just wrote me a letter

02:28:15.000 --> 02:28:17.440
after all these years, after I deposed him, first

02:28:17.440 --> 02:28:18.760
time ever, wrote me a letter. Really? What did

02:28:18.760 --> 02:28:21.280
he say? He said, I heard you wrote a book. I

02:28:21.280 --> 02:28:24.899
heard you wrote a book. And your deposition went

02:28:24.899 --> 02:28:27.459
very, very long. And I wasn't prepared enough.

02:28:27.500 --> 02:28:29.860
He's a world's leading vaccinologist. And I will

02:28:29.860 --> 02:28:33.399
be credited with saving millions. And you will

02:28:33.399 --> 02:28:35.659
go down in history as the one who's harmed and

02:28:35.659 --> 02:28:38.610
killed children. That's what he wrote me a letter.

02:28:38.690 --> 02:28:43.049
And I wrote him back a response. And I said,

02:28:43.129 --> 02:28:45.489
look, I said, Dr. Plotkin, I said, thank you

02:28:45.489 --> 02:28:46.969
for your letter. I appreciate that you're writing

02:28:46.969 --> 02:28:49.329
me finally. Because I've reached out to him before,

02:28:49.430 --> 02:28:53.030
one time at least. And I said, look, I said,

02:28:53.090 --> 02:28:56.909
I think we can agree on one thing. We want to

02:28:56.909 --> 02:29:00.149
save as many children as possible. I want to

02:29:00.149 --> 02:29:01.709
save children from infectious disease. That's

02:29:01.709 --> 02:29:04.909
important. I agree. But I also want to save children

02:29:04.909 --> 02:29:07.739
from the harm from these products. They matter

02:29:07.739 --> 02:29:11.540
too. They're not just, there shouldn't be accepted

02:29:11.540 --> 02:29:14.520
casualties. The tens of thousands of families

02:29:14.520 --> 02:29:17.819
have contacted my law firm. Devastating harm

02:29:17.819 --> 02:29:20.680
from these products. They matter too. And I said,

02:29:20.700 --> 02:29:22.940
let's work together. Let's work constructively.

02:29:23.040 --> 02:29:24.459
I said, because look, at the end of the day,

02:29:24.559 --> 02:29:28.680
if you don't address this, if you don't address

02:29:28.680 --> 02:29:31.840
this issue, I said, history is not going to remember

02:29:31.840 --> 02:29:34.219
you for the good. History is going to remember

02:29:34.219 --> 02:29:36.319
you for all the harm you caused. Because when

02:29:36.319 --> 02:29:38.600
people look back in history at products that

02:29:38.600 --> 02:29:41.360
cause devastating harm, which vaccines can do,

02:29:41.959 --> 02:29:43.979
they don't remember the good those products did.

02:29:44.040 --> 02:29:45.620
They remember the harms that people ignored,

02:29:45.879 --> 02:29:48.940
that were overlooked, and those were just cast

02:29:48.940 --> 02:29:50.920
aside. I said, that will be your legacy. I said,

02:29:50.940 --> 02:29:52.340
but there's time to correct. He hasn't written

02:29:52.340 --> 02:29:53.920
me back. Of course he hasn't written you back.

02:29:54.040 --> 02:29:56.120
I posted both letters on my sub stack, and I

02:29:56.120 --> 02:29:58.260
tweeted them out. So this way, I figured they

02:29:58.260 --> 02:29:59.739
could do some good that way. So they're available

02:29:59.739 --> 02:30:05.030
to everybody to read. I think it's a very unique

02:30:05.030 --> 02:30:09.930
time that this message can get out there because

02:30:09.930 --> 02:30:14.389
what they did when they removed liability and

02:30:14.389 --> 02:30:16.510
they gave them blanket protection like that,

02:30:16.569 --> 02:30:20.809
they opened up the door to a bunch of people

02:30:20.809 --> 02:30:23.329
that … really don't give a shit about you. They

02:30:23.329 --> 02:30:24.889
just want to make as much money as possible.

02:30:25.229 --> 02:30:26.750
There's the scientists. That's what I always

02:30:26.750 --> 02:30:29.290
describe like these companies. You've got the

02:30:29.290 --> 02:30:31.309
people that are making these drugs. You've got

02:30:31.309 --> 02:30:33.690
these really interesting, brilliant scientists.

02:30:33.870 --> 02:30:35.770
And then you get the fucking money people. And

02:30:35.770 --> 02:30:38.090
the money people don't give a shit. They just

02:30:38.090 --> 02:30:40.110
want to make more money. And they're both together.

02:30:40.409 --> 02:30:43.250
So you have this weird contradictory world where

02:30:43.250 --> 02:30:45.649
you have like some amazing pharmaceutical drugs

02:30:45.649 --> 02:30:48.590
that helped so many people and kept people alive

02:30:48.590 --> 02:30:51.379
and cured diseases. And then you... You got the

02:30:51.379 --> 02:30:54.180
money people who want everybody to get shot up

02:30:54.180 --> 02:30:56.260
because it's going to make them more money. And

02:30:56.260 --> 02:30:59.520
those two working together is a very bad mixture,

02:30:59.700 --> 02:31:04.120
especially when you have mandates. Then you mandate

02:31:04.120 --> 02:31:07.059
that these people have to be able to inject you

02:31:07.059 --> 02:31:08.940
and inject your children with this thing that's

02:31:08.940 --> 02:31:10.840
going to make them money. And they have zero

02:31:10.840 --> 02:31:13.860
liability. Like, how could that possibly go well?

02:31:14.659 --> 02:31:16.899
Knowing what you know about human beings, who

02:31:16.899 --> 02:31:19.459
would sign off on that? I don't know. That's

02:31:19.459 --> 02:31:22.549
crazy. You know, I had a business idea for you.

02:31:22.590 --> 02:31:24.250
Okay. Want to hear it? Sure. It's a great business

02:31:24.250 --> 02:31:26.010
idea. Listen, we're going to sell this product.

02:31:26.090 --> 02:31:27.670
Okay. We're going to make it. Let's go. Okay,

02:31:27.670 --> 02:31:30.569
we can inject it into people. Are you worried

02:31:30.569 --> 02:31:32.290
it's going to hurt people? Well, I'm a little

02:31:32.290 --> 02:31:34.129
worried. I want to hear your story first. Don't

02:31:34.129 --> 02:31:37.110
worry. Don't worry. Don't worry about it because

02:31:37.110 --> 02:31:38.569
governments can give us immunity to liability

02:31:38.569 --> 02:31:40.729
no matter how many people we hurt or kill. Oh,

02:31:40.969 --> 02:31:43.110
how did you work that out? Yeah, I know. Now,

02:31:43.190 --> 02:31:44.950
the weird part is you might be saying to me,

02:31:45.010 --> 02:31:47.950
you say, Aaron, Aaron, wait a second. But who

02:31:47.950 --> 02:31:50.219
the hell did I take that? And I'll say, Joe,

02:31:50.260 --> 02:31:52.540
don't worry. The government's going to mandate

02:31:52.540 --> 02:31:55.819
it, too. And you might say, OK, but what if people

02:31:55.819 --> 02:31:59.180
rise up? And I'll say, Joe, don't worry. They're

02:31:59.180 --> 02:32:01.840
going to spend billions convincing the public

02:32:01.840 --> 02:32:05.500
it's the best thing since sliced bread. And then

02:32:05.500 --> 02:32:07.700
you're going to say, but what if people still

02:32:07.700 --> 02:32:08.940
don't want to pay for it? And I'll say, don't

02:32:08.940 --> 02:32:12.620
worry. The government, through a program, literally

02:32:12.620 --> 02:32:14.879
pays for half of all vaccine, guarantees payments

02:32:14.879 --> 02:32:17.959
to the pharma companies, even if people cannot.

02:32:18.399 --> 02:32:21.700
Sounds like a good investment. No liability,

02:32:22.180 --> 02:32:25.940
guaranteed market, free promotion, guaranteed

02:32:25.940 --> 02:32:30.579
payment. If it wasn't vaccines, you'd say it's

02:32:30.579 --> 02:32:32.979
insane. It is insane, and that is the business

02:32:32.979 --> 02:32:35.100
model of vaccines. That literally is what I just

02:32:35.100 --> 02:32:39.319
said. So you're right, it's perverse. But this

02:32:39.319 --> 02:32:40.879
thing that you were just saying before about

02:32:40.879 --> 02:32:43.520
the money men who want to just make money, look,

02:32:44.319 --> 02:32:47.959
we live in a capitalist system where... We have

02:32:47.959 --> 02:32:55.180
tapped into that self -interest. But we try to

02:32:55.180 --> 02:32:57.879
harness it for good. So every company has that

02:32:57.879 --> 02:33:00.379
to some degree. You know, people have that to

02:33:00.379 --> 02:33:02.440
some degree. But the idea with capitalism is,

02:33:02.520 --> 02:33:05.260
yeah, but you got to channel that and you got

02:33:05.260 --> 02:33:06.899
to do good. You got to do a good product. You

02:33:06.899 --> 02:33:08.200
got to do a good service. You got to do something

02:33:08.200 --> 02:33:11.459
positive. And if you don't, you'll be held accountable.

02:33:11.940 --> 02:33:16.540
So it's got guardrails. Yes. So, you know, it's,

02:33:16.540 --> 02:33:19.020
you know, because I, you know, people are like,

02:33:19.079 --> 02:33:20.620
well, what are you saying? Like people are sitting

02:33:20.620 --> 02:33:22.260
there on the farm coming with horns and evil.

02:33:22.440 --> 02:33:24.219
No, they're just, but they're just, they don't

02:33:24.219 --> 02:33:27.840
have guardrails. And they've gone totally, you

02:33:27.840 --> 02:33:30.000
know, they've gone totally off the rail. Do you

02:33:30.000 --> 02:33:32.579
like my business idea? It's a great idea. I'm

02:33:32.579 --> 02:33:34.139
going to talk to my lawyer first because I don't

02:33:34.139 --> 02:33:38.559
want to go to jail. Oh, you're right. I don't

02:33:38.559 --> 02:33:40.360
think in a sane society I'd get locked up for

02:33:40.360 --> 02:33:42.020
the rest of my life, especially if he killed

02:33:42.020 --> 02:33:44.100
a bunch of people, which is really crazy that

02:33:44.100 --> 02:33:45.879
none of these people do wind up going to jail.

02:33:45.959 --> 02:33:47.899
They pay giant criminal fines, and then they

02:33:47.899 --> 02:33:50.319
slip away. I mean, look at the Sackler family.

02:33:50.520 --> 02:33:53.840
They haven't been jailed, right? Wasn't there

02:33:53.840 --> 02:33:56.840
like they were going to get immunity in favor

02:33:56.840 --> 02:33:59.459
of like $6 billion or something crazy, but then

02:33:59.459 --> 02:34:01.319
a judge kind of put the kibosh on that after

02:34:01.319 --> 02:34:04.680
Painkiller, the Netflix docudrama, came out?

02:34:05.100 --> 02:34:09.579
Yeah. And then critically, too, I would say it's

02:34:09.579 --> 02:34:11.540
like remember during the bank crisis, there were

02:34:11.540 --> 02:34:13.360
the banks that were too big to fail. Yeah. So

02:34:13.360 --> 02:34:15.620
they want to touch those. The Sackler family,

02:34:15.680 --> 02:34:18.819
to me, it's like the smaller bank that they could.

02:34:19.299 --> 02:34:21.959
There was I mean, it was bad, but they could

02:34:21.959 --> 02:34:24.459
sacrifice them. They could sacrifice that pharma

02:34:24.459 --> 02:34:28.049
company. Are they going to sacrifice Merck? Sanofi,

02:34:28.110 --> 02:34:31.290
Pfizer, GSK, any of those guys? Are they really

02:34:31.290 --> 02:34:33.430
going to sacrifice them at the end of the day,

02:34:33.469 --> 02:34:37.190
no matter how much harm they do? I don't know.

02:34:37.250 --> 02:34:41.170
It's hard to see it. Well, listen, I'm glad you're

02:34:41.170 --> 02:34:43.709
out there, and I'm glad you can articulate these

02:34:43.709 --> 02:34:47.590
points so clearly and passionately, because people

02:34:47.590 --> 02:34:50.610
need to hear it. They need to know what the actual

02:34:50.610 --> 02:34:52.909
data is, what the actual story is about all of

02:34:52.909 --> 02:34:55.790
it. It's better for all of us. And as hard as

02:34:55.790 --> 02:34:58.110
it is, a pill to swallow, people need to get

02:34:58.110 --> 02:35:01.489
that glass of water and start swallowing. So

02:35:01.489 --> 02:35:03.129
thank you very much. Thanks for being here. I

02:35:03.129 --> 02:35:05.329
really enjoyed it. And tell everybody your book.

02:35:05.389 --> 02:35:07.750
Did you do an audio version of it? I did. Did

02:35:07.750 --> 02:35:10.909
you read it? I did. How much work was it? Oh,

02:35:10.930 --> 02:35:14.930
my gosh. Oh, my gosh. That was a lot. I thought

02:35:14.930 --> 02:35:19.790
I could read, by the way. I was like, yeah, it's

02:35:19.790 --> 02:35:21.549
reading. And then I realized when I had to read

02:35:21.549 --> 02:35:23.030
the book, it was like I couldn't read anymore.

02:35:23.329 --> 02:35:24.930
Oh, that's hilarious. Oh, my gosh. Did you ever

02:35:24.930 --> 02:35:27.149
have to read an audio book? No, but I do ads

02:35:27.149 --> 02:35:28.870
for the podcast, and Jamie will tell you. I'm

02:35:28.870 --> 02:35:32.059
always like, fuck. I'm always fucking up sentences.

02:35:32.159 --> 02:35:34.639
Then you got to redo them. It's brutal. Yeah.

02:35:34.879 --> 02:35:37.479
Just talking is fine. Right. But when you have

02:35:37.479 --> 02:35:40.260
to read out loud, like your tongue gets all tripped

02:35:40.260 --> 02:35:42.760
up. I'm like, I go to federal court. I can argue.

02:35:42.819 --> 02:35:45.920
I go to Senate hearings. I'm like, tell the audio

02:35:45.920 --> 02:35:47.840
guy because we're in the studio alone. I'm like,

02:35:47.899 --> 02:35:52.340
I really am. I think I might seem like a total

02:35:52.340 --> 02:35:56.290
moron. I probably am a moron, but I'm just a

02:35:56.290 --> 02:35:58.729
little bit – I don't know. I felt like such a

02:35:58.729 --> 02:36:00.690
moron. Yeah, I have friends that have read their

02:36:00.690 --> 02:36:02.610
own books and they feel the exact same way. It

02:36:02.610 --> 02:36:05.850
was so painful. Oh, my goodness. But I did it.

02:36:05.989 --> 02:36:09.690
It's done. It's out there on Audible and the

02:36:09.690 --> 02:36:12.389
books on Amazon. All right. Aaron, thank you

02:36:12.389 --> 02:36:14.770
very much. It was an honor and a pleasure having

02:36:14.770 --> 02:36:16.389
you in here. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

02:36:16.729 --> 02:36:18.229
Goodbye, everybody.