WEBVTT 00:00:01.639 --> 00:00:04.719 Welcome to this curated educational transcript of the Joe Rogan Experience. In this session, we provide a deep-dive examination of the critical perspectives and historical dialogues presented in Episode #2065. Our mission is to offer a high-fidelity, searchable research resource for students of cultural history, emerging technology, and global discourse. This transcript has been specifically optimized for academic reference, linguistic study, and archival preservation regarding National Security Intelligence, UAP Disclosure Ethics, and Aerospace Sovereignty. Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan 00:00:04.719 --> 00:00:08.140 Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by 00:00:08.140 --> 00:00:13.339 night, all day. What's up? How are you, man? 00:00:13.480 --> 00:00:16.320 Hey, good, good. Thanks for coming here. Appreciate 00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:19.219 it. Yeah, no, it's a pleasure. You've been on 00:00:19.219 --> 00:00:24.600 a whirlwind sort of tour. I guess we should start 00:00:24.600 --> 00:00:27.600 from the beginning. Yeah. So, first of all... 00:00:27.929 --> 00:00:30.809 Lay out to people what your job was with the 00:00:30.809 --> 00:00:34.329 military and how this all started for you. Yeah, 00:00:34.350 --> 00:00:37.109 yeah. So I was an intel officer in the Air Force 00:00:37.109 --> 00:00:41.350 for 14 years, seven active, seven reserve. Then 00:00:41.350 --> 00:00:43.969 I kind of had like a parallel tract in the civilian 00:00:43.969 --> 00:00:49.649 intel world when I became a reservist. And ultimately 00:00:49.649 --> 00:00:52.390 I got brought back in in civil service in a government 00:00:52.390 --> 00:00:54.869 way at the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency. 00:00:55.960 --> 00:00:59.140 A couple of years ago at a senior level. So I 00:00:59.140 --> 00:01:02.859 was a major in the Air Force and a GS -15 at 00:01:02.859 --> 00:01:05.040 NGA, which is like a full bird colonel equivalent 00:01:05.040 --> 00:01:08.200 civilian employee. You know, I'm very humbled 00:01:08.200 --> 00:01:09.920 that I was able to kind of get that kind of job. 00:01:10.659 --> 00:01:15.319 But my career mostly, I didn't even really think 00:01:15.319 --> 00:01:18.280 about this topic. UFOs were not on my radar. 00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:20.700 I wasn't really a believer. I was agnostic about 00:01:20.700 --> 00:01:25.790 it. Most of my career, I did a lot of. Behind 00:01:25.790 --> 00:01:29.849 the door, special access program, technical type 00:01:29.849 --> 00:01:32.569 activities. I was kind of a space intelligence 00:01:32.569 --> 00:01:38.250 expert, a cyber intel expert. And like I said, 00:01:38.290 --> 00:01:40.010 this was not on my radar at all. You know, I 00:01:40.010 --> 00:01:41.709 would joke with my buddies because I used to 00:01:41.709 --> 00:01:44.609 handle the presidential daily brief for the National 00:01:44.609 --> 00:01:47.150 Reconnaissance Office director in my military 00:01:47.150 --> 00:01:50.689 capacity as a reservist. And I was well clear 00:01:50.689 --> 00:01:53.549 to. hundreds and hundreds of compartmented programs. 00:01:53.769 --> 00:01:55.150 And, you know, the joke was like, when are we 00:01:55.150 --> 00:01:57.590 going to get the read on for the crazy shit? 00:01:57.650 --> 00:02:02.969 And that never happens. And I do remember that 00:02:02.969 --> 00:02:07.150 the day that I really can remember that I was 00:02:07.150 --> 00:02:10.310 like, huh, what's with this UFO stuff? I was 00:02:10.310 --> 00:02:15.250 briefing a senior person at the CIA into a couple 00:02:15.250 --> 00:02:18.810 hundred special access programs. So I was at 00:02:18.810 --> 00:02:20.629 the headquarters at the agency. And, you know, 00:02:20.629 --> 00:02:22.449 after the indoctrination I was giving to the 00:02:22.449 --> 00:02:27.090 senior person, this person who worked with Lou 00:02:27.090 --> 00:02:30.449 Elizondo previously was like, yeah, Dave, have 00:02:30.449 --> 00:02:32.729 you ever heard of this guy, Lou Elizondo? He's 00:02:32.729 --> 00:02:36.229 running some UFO program at the Pentagon. We 00:02:36.229 --> 00:02:39.050 all think he's crazy. And I'm like, I don't know 00:02:39.050 --> 00:02:41.550 who this guy Lou Elizondo is. And I don't know 00:02:41.550 --> 00:02:44.849 of any kind of UFO program. So that sounds nuts 00:02:44.849 --> 00:02:48.120 to me. But lo and behold, and that was like early 00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:52.879 2017. And lo and behold, in December 2017, that 00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:56.259 New York Times article came up with that named 00:02:56.259 --> 00:02:59.240 the AATIP program and the OSAP program. So Advanced 00:02:59.240 --> 00:03:02.099 Aerospace Weapons Systems Application Program 00:03:02.099 --> 00:03:05.159 and Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification 00:03:05.159 --> 00:03:08.219 Program being the other acronym. And I was like, 00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:10.539 holy shit. Wait, that's that guy, Lua Lizondo, 00:03:10.680 --> 00:03:13.080 that I heard about. Oh, you know what? I think 00:03:13.080 --> 00:03:14.979 I have heard of OSAP. When I was a lieutenant. 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:18.740 I used to read these reports from the Defense 00:03:18.740 --> 00:03:20.719 Intelligence Agency on black holes and stuff. 00:03:20.780 --> 00:03:22.599 And I was like, oh, that's like stupid. Why is 00:03:22.599 --> 00:03:26.939 the DIA looking into black holes, time warps? 00:03:26.939 --> 00:03:28.819 It just didn't make any sense to me back in like 00:03:28.819 --> 00:03:32.699 08, 09 when I was a lieutenant. And all of a 00:03:32.699 --> 00:03:33.879 sudden I'm like, well, maybe there's something 00:03:33.879 --> 00:03:36.699 to this UFO thing. I'm not saying I was like 00:03:36.699 --> 00:03:39.800 a believer either way on the subject, but this 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:42.340 was a topic of concern apparently for the Pentagon. 00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:47.840 In 2018, I started doing kind of what I call 00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:49.819 my open source literature review. Like, let me 00:03:49.819 --> 00:03:52.819 spin myself up on this topic. Watching Chris 00:03:52.819 --> 00:03:55.400 Mellon, Lou Elizondo, Leslie Keen, all these 00:03:55.400 --> 00:03:58.919 people talk about the subject. And then, you 00:03:58.919 --> 00:04:00.840 know, just trying to understand, so what is this 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:03.419 with UFOs? Has this been going on for a while? 00:04:03.560 --> 00:04:06.759 The answer is yes. Like Foo Fighters, sightings 00:04:06.759 --> 00:04:08.840 of weird stuff in antiquity, et cetera, which 00:04:08.840 --> 00:04:13.810 we can get into later. And so early 2019 comes 00:04:13.810 --> 00:04:17.389 along, and my boss at the National Reconnaissance 00:04:17.389 --> 00:04:19.509 Office in kind of my Air Force major capacity 00:04:19.509 --> 00:04:24.689 forwarded me an email from what became – stood 00:04:24.689 --> 00:04:27.230 up in like I guess it was 2018, which was the 00:04:27.230 --> 00:04:30.589 unidentified – well, it was Aerial, now Anonymous 00:04:30.589 --> 00:04:33.389 Philomena Task Force, UAP Task Force. So the 00:04:33.389 --> 00:04:35.790 UAP Task Force director sent my boss an email 00:04:35.790 --> 00:04:38.519 saying, hey, we're looking for a rep. to the 00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:40.660 task force. And as like any good officer, I was 00:04:40.660 --> 00:04:42.839 like, well, I'll put it on my performance report. 00:04:43.139 --> 00:04:46.240 Hey, I was on a task force and you know, that 00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:49.279 would look good. And I had being well cleared 00:04:49.279 --> 00:04:53.420 and also a bachelor's degree in physics, a master's 00:04:53.420 --> 00:04:55.019 in intelligence analysis. I'm like, you know 00:04:55.019 --> 00:04:56.519 what? I'll figure out what the shit is. It's 00:04:56.519 --> 00:04:59.079 either going to be weather shit. Maybe it's an 00:04:59.079 --> 00:05:03.199 adversarial program. Maybe it's like a U S program. 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:05.699 People are misidentifying on rare occasions. 00:05:06.750 --> 00:05:10.509 So, fuck it, I'll go see where the data takes 00:05:10.509 --> 00:05:14.089 me. And, you know, early 2019 or so, I joined 00:05:14.089 --> 00:05:20.089 the UAP task force. And then I started, you know, 00:05:20.089 --> 00:05:24.670 interviewing pilots, flag officers, you know, 00:05:24.709 --> 00:05:27.490 general officer equivalent type Navy folks. And, 00:05:27.529 --> 00:05:29.269 you know, they were seeing some really crazy 00:05:29.269 --> 00:05:33.240 shit. you know, event that I talked about previously 00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:36.839 publicly in a YouTube video on the Yes Theory 00:05:36.839 --> 00:05:39.759 channel. You know, there was this one 30 year 00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:42.860 senior Navy officer that, you know, he was going 00:05:42.860 --> 00:05:46.439 to work sober, no predisposition for fantasy, 00:05:46.500 --> 00:05:47.959 all that kind of stuff, because I interviewed 00:05:47.959 --> 00:05:49.459 the individual for a couple hours and he saw 00:05:49.459 --> 00:05:53.040 this, you know, crazy triangle hover over his 00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:55.720 car going to work at a certain naval facility. 00:05:55.959 --> 00:06:01.120 And it like blew his mind. He was serious. the 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:03.740 paint on his car turned milky white after the 00:06:03.740 --> 00:06:06.399 incident. So that's to me, that sounds like ionizing 00:06:06.399 --> 00:06:09.180 radiation. So like ultraviolet, just like how 00:06:09.180 --> 00:06:12.819 your, your headlights get all foggy over time. 00:06:12.939 --> 00:06:16.839 If you park your car out in the sun, same phenomenon 00:06:16.839 --> 00:06:19.399 just happened, you know, within 24 hour period. 00:06:19.420 --> 00:06:23.420 And I'm like, Whoa. If this is true and the oral 00:06:23.420 --> 00:06:27.339 testimony and crazy radar data that I saw when 00:06:27.339 --> 00:06:30.360 I was on the task force, stuff making turns that 00:06:30.360 --> 00:06:32.680 didn't make any sense, well, holy shit, what 00:06:32.680 --> 00:06:36.180 is this stuff then? This anomaly with his paint, 00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:39.459 is this documented? Is this photographs? Yes, 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:42.019 I saw photographs. It was documented, yeah. And 00:06:42.019 --> 00:06:47.050 is there a conventional explanation? I mean, 00:06:47.069 --> 00:06:50.610 based on what he described, something to rapidly 00:06:50.610 --> 00:06:55.329 ionize his paint like that within a day? I can't 00:06:55.329 --> 00:06:57.189 think of anything off the top of my head in terms 00:06:57.189 --> 00:07:00.649 of some conventional aerospace technology. And 00:07:00.649 --> 00:07:03.209 this was a certain facility in the continental 00:07:03.209 --> 00:07:05.509 U .S. This was not overseas. So it's not like 00:07:05.509 --> 00:07:10.310 our adversary is flying some spooky thing in 00:07:10.310 --> 00:07:13.089 U .S. airspace. So this thing hovered over his 00:07:13.089 --> 00:07:16.810 car for how long? A couple minutes while he was 00:07:16.810 --> 00:07:19.430 traveling at about 60 miles an hour, so it was 00:07:19.430 --> 00:07:22.389 pacing his vehicle. How far away from his vehicle? 00:07:23.410 --> 00:07:26.589 It was probably a couple hundred feet in altitude. 00:07:26.649 --> 00:07:28.850 It was less than 1 ,000 feet, which is also bad 00:07:28.850 --> 00:07:32.269 because from an airspace perspective, pilots 00:07:32.269 --> 00:07:34.209 would know this. Anything under 1 ,000 feet? 00:07:34.290 --> 00:07:37.170 No. Unless you get special clearance and you 00:07:37.170 --> 00:07:39.949 only do that over controlled airspace, like a 00:07:39.949 --> 00:07:42.610 military test ranges, right? People fly low and 00:07:42.610 --> 00:07:44.810 that kind of thing. So is he on, what kind of 00:07:44.810 --> 00:07:48.389 a highway is he on? A conventional civilian highway. 00:07:48.610 --> 00:07:50.730 So anyone could have been on it. Yes. And it 00:07:50.730 --> 00:07:54.910 just happened to be this guy. Did he have any 00:07:54.910 --> 00:07:58.629 other experiences with this thing? No. This was 00:07:58.629 --> 00:08:03.560 like a once in a lifetime thing. Kept it to himself 00:08:03.560 --> 00:08:08.000 for a couple years, but then he in the task force 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:10.300 came out. What was his name? I don't know. Okay. 00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:11.959 That individual's still on active duty. Let's 00:08:11.959 --> 00:08:14.220 call him Bob. Did anybody say to him, hey, Bob, 00:08:14.319 --> 00:08:16.660 what the fuck happened to your car? You know, 00:08:16.699 --> 00:08:19.160 that's a good question. I don't remember if people 00:08:19.160 --> 00:08:21.639 asked him about his car. So he took pride in 00:08:21.639 --> 00:08:23.740 his car, so it actually was probably more upsetting 00:08:23.740 --> 00:08:25.540 to him personally. What kind of car was it? It 00:08:25.540 --> 00:08:28.019 was like a Toyota or something. Okay. Yeah. So 00:08:28.019 --> 00:08:31.040 all of a sudden his Toyota's fucked. Yeah. OK. 00:08:31.500 --> 00:08:36.220 And so did he have to report this? Is this something 00:08:36.220 --> 00:08:39.399 that he did not report it to my knowledge to 00:08:39.399 --> 00:08:41.779 anybody? It wasn't until he reported it to us 00:08:41.779 --> 00:08:47.080 about five years later that it happened. So are 00:08:47.080 --> 00:08:50.179 these kind of experiences something that a lot 00:08:50.179 --> 00:08:52.980 of these pilots are? They're embarrassed about 00:08:52.980 --> 00:08:55.379 discussing or have apprehension about discussing 00:08:55.379 --> 00:08:58.039 because they could be ridiculed. Yeah, a lot 00:08:58.039 --> 00:08:59.820 of people that are on flight status, they don't 00:08:59.820 --> 00:09:01.679 want to be sent to the psych, right? You know, 00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:03.779 there's a whole aerospace physiology kind of 00:09:03.779 --> 00:09:06.940 empire in the military. And, you know, if you're 00:09:06.940 --> 00:09:10.740 an operator or, you know, a guy, a missile key 00:09:10.740 --> 00:09:12.860 turner, you're on what they call a personal reliability 00:09:12.860 --> 00:09:16.820 program. You're taking like, you know, Tylenol, 00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:18.440 you got to report it. If you have a fever, you 00:09:18.440 --> 00:09:20.750 got to report it because you're, you know. and 00:09:20.750 --> 00:09:22.250 control nuclear weapons when you're on duty. 00:09:22.409 --> 00:09:26.049 Right. Yeah. And so this idea of being predisposed 00:09:26.049 --> 00:09:30.289 to fantasy, that's also something that they sort 00:09:30.289 --> 00:09:33.289 of talk to these people about or try to get a 00:09:33.289 --> 00:09:35.970 gauge of. Yeah, yeah. These are people that are 00:09:35.970 --> 00:09:38.389 very sober -minded. I mean, this individual was 00:09:38.389 --> 00:09:40.509 early in the morning going to work, not under 00:09:40.509 --> 00:09:44.210 the influence of anything. And that person had 00:09:44.210 --> 00:09:47.710 a similar clearance as mine, no TSSCI. So, you 00:09:47.710 --> 00:09:50.700 know, we've gone through. Top secret, you know, 00:09:50.700 --> 00:09:52.539 sensitive department of information clearance. 00:09:52.659 --> 00:09:55.759 And, you know, just like myself, I've been through 00:09:55.759 --> 00:09:58.440 multiple polygraphs in my career. So did this 00:09:58.440 --> 00:10:03.519 individual. So does he have any idea or any theories 00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:07.000 about why this thing was following him? No, that's 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:10.620 what freaked him out the most because he didn't 00:10:10.620 --> 00:10:12.559 have any experience in his life like this. It 00:10:12.559 --> 00:10:14.279 like totally blew his mind when he looked out 00:10:14.279 --> 00:10:16.840 his moonroof and then looked out the side of 00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:20.279 his. car door and saw this 300 foot triangle 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:24.500 it was like pre -dawn sky but it was darker than 00:10:24.500 --> 00:10:28.080 the pre -dawn sky and it had this like plasma 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:31.799 edges like it was like purplish glowing edges 00:10:31.799 --> 00:10:34.639 and these three lights that had like these omni 00:10:34.639 --> 00:10:36.919 -directional like almost like pool lights you 00:10:36.919 --> 00:10:38.240 know how there's you can't really tell where 00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:41.139 the light source is and it was totally trippy 00:10:41.139 --> 00:10:44.899 and that's just one example of many anecdotal 00:10:44.899 --> 00:10:48.809 with some evidence you know, pilot stories. And 00:10:48.809 --> 00:10:50.789 that's what made me dig deeper. And I started, 00:10:50.850 --> 00:10:54.269 you know, cultivating my network. Like, has the 00:10:54.269 --> 00:10:56.289 government studied this before? This wasn't just 00:10:56.289 --> 00:10:58.529 OSAP and ATIP and Blue Book and all this shit 00:10:58.529 --> 00:11:01.009 in the past, right? There's, this seems serious. 00:11:01.029 --> 00:11:03.110 So like, certainly the government has looked 00:11:03.110 --> 00:11:05.470 at this and, you know, I went to search for that 00:11:05.470 --> 00:11:07.070 program and that's what I ended up whistleblowing 00:11:07.070 --> 00:11:12.059 on, right? So when you... How did you initially 00:11:12.059 --> 00:11:14.899 discover this program and what was your first 00:11:14.899 --> 00:11:18.299 encounter with the information? A very senior 00:11:18.299 --> 00:11:22.980 individual in the Intel community came to me 00:11:22.980 --> 00:11:26.820 when I guess I was asking a lot of questions 00:11:26.820 --> 00:11:29.100 because I'm a very inquisitive guy. And it was 00:11:29.100 --> 00:11:31.200 like, hey, I need to introduce you to somebody. 00:11:32.879 --> 00:11:36.159 He listed that certain person's academic credentials, 00:11:36.259 --> 00:11:38.779 which were beyond reproach, PhD level education. 00:11:40.699 --> 00:11:42.700 clearance. Resume was insane. I'm like, well, 00:11:42.799 --> 00:11:45.600 okay, sure. I'll, I'll talk to this person. And, 00:11:45.620 --> 00:11:47.860 and I ended up meeting that person in a, you 00:11:47.860 --> 00:11:51.700 know, a top secret facility. And, you know, he 00:11:51.700 --> 00:11:54.340 started the discussing like, Hey, there was a 00:11:54.340 --> 00:11:59.740 program. I was on it. And, you know, we were 00:11:59.740 --> 00:12:02.600 reverse engineering crash material that we've 00:12:02.600 --> 00:12:05.419 recovered over the decades, you know, and he's 00:12:05.419 --> 00:12:08.820 like, I'm not joking. You know, we're telling 00:12:08.820 --> 00:12:10.879 you because you have you guys have to report 00:12:10.879 --> 00:12:12.879 to the deputy secretary of defense in Congress 00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:16.899 on this matter. Right. And we were we were actively 00:12:16.899 --> 00:12:20.500 briefing like Secretary Esper, Deputy Secretary 00:12:20.500 --> 00:12:24.779 Norquist, you know, other cabinet level folks. 00:12:24.860 --> 00:12:27.840 Right. And it's like there's a you know, there 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:29.620 must be there's an oversight issue because you're 00:12:29.620 --> 00:12:37.659 the UAP task force. you know, dollars looking 00:12:37.659 --> 00:12:41.080 at stuff that we already have data on. Right. 00:12:41.179 --> 00:12:43.919 So that's, and that spooked me. And that was 00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:47.360 like fall of 2019. And, you know, I don't take 00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:49.100 a guy's word for it. I'm like, you know what, 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:52.740 myself and my trusted colleagues that had a lot, 00:12:52.740 --> 00:12:56.240 a lot of special accesses like me, you know, 00:12:56.240 --> 00:13:00.100 we cultivated our network and we ultimately interviewed 00:13:00.100 --> 00:13:03.820 about 40 people or so all the way up to multi 00:13:03.820 --> 00:13:07.779 -star generals. Directors of agencies, mid -level 00:13:07.779 --> 00:13:10.039 guys that literally touched it, worked inside 00:13:10.039 --> 00:13:14.320 of it, all the stuff. They brought intel reports 00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:18.820 for me to look at, documents, and a lot of that 00:13:18.820 --> 00:13:23.620 I could cross -verify with other oral sources 00:13:23.620 --> 00:13:26.240 that my high -level colleagues or I talked to, 00:13:26.419 --> 00:13:31.840 and it checked out. Especially when I had enough 00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:35.190 information on... And I know who specifically 00:13:35.190 --> 00:13:37.470 to ask, like, hey, well, I went right into this. 00:13:37.909 --> 00:13:41.110 Like, I'm on the UAP task force. And we went 00:13:41.110 --> 00:13:43.110 to those, I'll call them gatekeepers for the 00:13:43.110 --> 00:13:45.529 lack of a better term. And they basically said, 00:13:45.649 --> 00:13:50.269 fuck you to me and my colleagues. So why were 00:13:50.269 --> 00:13:52.309 these other people willing to discuss this with 00:13:52.309 --> 00:13:55.830 you? Well, they determined I didn't need to know. 00:13:55.970 --> 00:14:00.039 I was already. Cleared at such a high level handling 00:14:00.039 --> 00:14:02.940 presidential material and everything. It's like 00:14:02.940 --> 00:14:06.820 Dave needs to know. And they felt that coming 00:14:06.820 --> 00:14:09.679 to us, it was a form of a protected disclosure. 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:12.340 They felt that they weren't really violating 00:14:12.340 --> 00:14:16.539 anything because, you know, we were the I'll 00:14:16.539 --> 00:14:19.360 call it the investigatory body for the Department 00:14:19.360 --> 00:14:21.139 of Defense and the intelligence community and 00:14:21.139 --> 00:14:24.960 Congress at the time. And they you know, you 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:28.860 are allowed to. you know, disclosed to a government 00:14:28.860 --> 00:14:31.440 official in an official capacity. And I, you 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:32.899 know, did that. And, you know, of course I protected 00:14:32.899 --> 00:14:35.899 those people and, and do know I took those people, 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:38.799 a lot of them, and I brought them to the intelligence 00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:41.200 community inspector general when I filed my complaint, 00:14:41.340 --> 00:14:44.279 because I don't want people to, you know, hear 00:14:44.279 --> 00:14:46.100 it from a secondhand source, you know, people 00:14:46.100 --> 00:14:48.299 call it hearsay, whatever, though I have some 00:14:48.299 --> 00:14:50.700 firsthand knowledge. I eventually talk about 00:14:50.700 --> 00:14:53.299 someday I'm trying to get it cleared, but through, 00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:57.769 through security processes. So they could hear 00:14:57.769 --> 00:15:00.529 it and hear the details like who, what, when, 00:15:00.570 --> 00:15:03.429 where, why, where the shit is, who's in control 00:15:03.429 --> 00:15:06.690 of it, what are the cover programs, et cetera, 00:15:06.769 --> 00:15:09.889 et cetera, et cetera. And that's what deemed 00:15:09.889 --> 00:15:13.470 my complaint credible and urgent in July 2022, 00:15:13.950 --> 00:15:18.570 which is a – so my complaint – Yes, was about 00:15:18.570 --> 00:15:20.909 reprisal, too. I filed that separately eventually 00:15:20.909 --> 00:15:23.570 to the Department of Defense inspector general. 00:15:23.610 --> 00:15:25.629 That's an ongoing investigation. But it was my 00:15:25.629 --> 00:15:30.309 congressional oversight UAP crash retrieval allegations 00:15:30.309 --> 00:15:33.429 that was deemed credible and urgent. It was sent 00:15:33.429 --> 00:15:35.230 to the director of national intelligence and 00:15:35.230 --> 00:15:36.970 then it was sent to the congressional intelligence 00:15:36.970 --> 00:15:41.490 committees around that time, July of 2022. And 00:15:41.490 --> 00:15:44.500 I eventually. Went to Congress in December of 00:15:44.500 --> 00:15:47.019 2022. And it's a crazy story why I took so long. 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:51.240 It's fucking nuts. But I provided total about 00:15:51.240 --> 00:15:55.620 11 and a half to 12 hours of classified testimony 00:15:55.620 --> 00:15:58.379 to the congressional staffers and their lawyers 00:15:58.379 --> 00:16:02.980 for both the House and the Senate. And I went 00:16:02.980 --> 00:16:05.720 full open kimono. I mean, I told them as much 00:16:05.720 --> 00:16:08.019 as I could within my time slot, if you will. 00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:13.360 This is obviously very compartmentalized where 00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:15.980 there's only a few people that know about this 00:16:15.980 --> 00:16:18.980 information and they're not allowed to discuss 00:16:18.980 --> 00:16:22.259 it with other people. When did this all start? 00:16:22.539 --> 00:16:26.200 I mean, is this out of Roswell? Is it predate 00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:29.919 that? Like when when did they first realize that 00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:32.799 there are things that cannot be explained or 00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:34.419 can't be explained through conventional means? 00:16:35.220 --> 00:16:37.980 Yeah, I mean, the program goes back a ways. The 00:16:37.980 --> 00:16:42.340 precise. Beginning of it, I can't talk about, 00:16:42.539 --> 00:16:45.480 but I did, because security stuff, but I did 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:49.379 talk about publicly the 1933 retrieval. And I 00:16:49.379 --> 00:16:52.460 did that tactically and I ran that through the 00:16:52.460 --> 00:16:54.779 security approval office because I wanted to 00:16:54.779 --> 00:16:58.720 show that this is much older and it's international. 00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:01.480 It's not like a U .S. thing. I mean, this stuff 00:17:01.480 --> 00:17:06.119 is landing or crashing around the world and unexpected 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:09.210 countries. I've had this happen, and that's why 00:17:09.210 --> 00:17:11.809 I picked that because I thought that was an interesting 00:17:11.809 --> 00:17:14.890 case. And then, of course, Pope Pius XII and 00:17:14.890 --> 00:17:16.950 the Vatican were involved back -channeling it 00:17:16.950 --> 00:17:19.210 through the OSS, which became the CIA later, 00:17:19.329 --> 00:17:22.710 to FDR. And that's how the U .S. knew something 00:17:22.710 --> 00:17:24.930 weird happened in Italy during – well, right 00:17:24.930 --> 00:17:28.170 before World War II. So this was 33? It was the 00:17:28.170 --> 00:17:33.690 first documented? That is the earliest one I 00:17:33.690 --> 00:17:36.210 can talk about, yeah. There's something that 00:17:36.210 --> 00:17:39.579 predates that? You could infer that. You could 00:17:39.579 --> 00:17:42.279 infer that. Yeah. So this 33 -1 you said was 00:17:42.279 --> 00:17:46.079 in Italy? Yeah, magenta. So I'm bad at geography. 00:17:46.099 --> 00:17:48.599 I think that's like Lombardy region. It's like 00:17:48.599 --> 00:17:51.380 northern, northwest Italy. And what's the story 00:17:51.380 --> 00:17:57.940 behind it? So basically it looked like it crashed, 00:17:57.980 --> 00:18:00.819 right? The original shape most likely was like 00:18:00.819 --> 00:18:04.190 a lenticular. Disc -like crafts, you know, with 00:18:04.190 --> 00:18:06.210 like two dinner plates. What does lenticular 00:18:06.210 --> 00:18:08.990 mean? So like two dinner plates, you know, smushed 00:18:08.990 --> 00:18:11.089 together, right? The hump. And there's like a, 00:18:11.089 --> 00:18:12.910 you know, like a bubble on top. The classic. 00:18:13.029 --> 00:18:17.150 Classic. Like that. Like that. Okay. But it looks 00:18:17.150 --> 00:18:20.650 like when it hits, the edges broke off. So it 00:18:20.650 --> 00:18:24.630 became this like bell or acorn shaped thing. 00:18:25.549 --> 00:18:27.549 And there was nothing in it. It was like just 00:18:27.549 --> 00:18:30.450 an artifact. You know, there was no. biological 00:18:30.450 --> 00:18:33.849 remnants, if you will. So it's so funny because 00:18:33.849 --> 00:18:38.410 the Italians were so confused. They actually 00:18:38.410 --> 00:18:40.230 called up the Germans and they were like, is 00:18:40.230 --> 00:18:42.210 this one of your Wunderwaffe? Like, what the 00:18:42.210 --> 00:18:45.569 hell just crashed in northern Italy? Mussolini. 00:18:45.869 --> 00:18:48.309 And this is all publicly available information 00:18:48.309 --> 00:18:52.119 because some Italian researchers. found all these 00:18:52.119 --> 00:18:54.319 original documents that some people were sitting 00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:57.180 on for years in Italy. You know, they put a gag 00:18:57.180 --> 00:19:00.240 order on the press, et cetera. And yeah, Mussolini 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:02.819 asked the Germans to come down. Of course, the 00:19:02.819 --> 00:19:05.519 Germans came down and they were like, that is 00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:11.079 not ours, but let's look at it together. So that's 00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:14.940 kind of perhaps a tertiary reason the kind of 00:19:14.940 --> 00:19:16.940 Axis powers got together. I'm not saying that's 00:19:16.940 --> 00:19:20.049 like. the reason, but I think the Italians and 00:19:20.049 --> 00:19:21.609 the Germans were so intrigued with what they 00:19:21.609 --> 00:19:24.369 found from like an artifact perspective. There 00:19:24.369 --> 00:19:27.109 was at least some scientific and military collaboration 00:19:27.109 --> 00:19:31.210 during the war. The details of which I'm not 00:19:31.210 --> 00:19:34.650 sure of, but I know people that know that specific 00:19:34.650 --> 00:19:36.950 event that are currently still intel officers 00:19:36.950 --> 00:19:41.349 within this program. in detail. So was there 00:19:41.349 --> 00:19:44.650 witnesses to the crash or some sort of an understanding 00:19:44.650 --> 00:19:47.069 that something had crash landed and then they 00:19:47.069 --> 00:19:50.490 discovered it? Yeah, I forget the precise discovery. 00:19:51.879 --> 00:19:54.779 I don't know if it was like local police officers 00:19:54.779 --> 00:19:56.839 or local farmers found it in the field, something 00:19:56.839 --> 00:20:00.319 like that. I don't want to misspeak. I assume 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:02.559 some of the Italian researchers might have some 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:04.680 fact witnesses that can orally say, oh, yeah, 00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:06.839 my great -grandfather found it or something like 00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:08.920 that. But I don't remember. What was the scale 00:20:08.920 --> 00:20:13.359 of this vehicle? It was probably like 20 feet 00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:15.880 by 10 feet, something like that. Super huge, 00:20:16.019 --> 00:20:18.099 but kind of big. Do they think that this was 00:20:18.099 --> 00:20:20.460 a drone? Do they think that this was occupied? 00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:26.980 There was nothing in it. So if it was piloted, 00:20:26.980 --> 00:20:28.740 if you will, by some sentience, I mean, your 00:20:28.740 --> 00:20:33.920 guess is as good as mine. So what happened to 00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:37.779 that vehicle? So we knew where it was being stored 00:20:37.779 --> 00:20:43.369 at a particular location after the crash. the 00:20:43.369 --> 00:20:45.849 military came in and we grabbed it towards the 00:20:45.849 --> 00:20:48.650 end of the war, you know, 1944, 1945, because, 00:20:48.809 --> 00:20:53.170 like I said, Pope Pius XII already kind of let 00:20:53.170 --> 00:20:56.170 FDR know. Why did the Pope get involved? Because 00:20:56.170 --> 00:20:58.920 it's in Italy? Well, well. Interestingly enough, 00:20:59.059 --> 00:21:01.519 there's like a whole history of human intelligence 00:21:01.519 --> 00:21:06.099 prior to World War II and old money, the Vatican, 00:21:06.339 --> 00:21:09.400 the Italian mob, kind of the old country boys 00:21:09.400 --> 00:21:12.920 did a lot of informal intelligence collection. 00:21:14.009 --> 00:21:16.829 For the U .S. and there's probably some books 00:21:16.829 --> 00:21:18.509 you can read on it, but it's really interesting. 00:21:18.750 --> 00:21:20.950 You know, human intelligence collection wasn't 00:21:20.950 --> 00:21:23.309 really formalized until the Office of Strategic 00:21:23.309 --> 00:21:27.529 Services, the OSS, which became the CIA in 1947. 00:21:29.349 --> 00:21:33.630 You had Paul Mellon and all these other affluent 00:21:33.630 --> 00:21:35.730 guys of all these old money families that basically 00:21:35.730 --> 00:21:39.970 created the CIA. So that's probably the reason 00:21:39.970 --> 00:21:45.500 why. So this thing. that was recovered, this 00:21:45.500 --> 00:21:48.500 was the first documented one that the United 00:21:48.500 --> 00:21:52.339 States had access to? I can't get into if it 00:21:52.339 --> 00:21:54.539 was the first or not, but it was an early one. 00:21:54.680 --> 00:21:56.619 Very early. Yeah. So it's almost 100 years ago. 00:21:56.779 --> 00:21:59.900 Yes. And so they take this thing and then they 00:21:59.900 --> 00:22:03.779 bring it where? Yeah, I can't get into that. 00:22:04.140 --> 00:22:06.359 Okay. So they bring it somewhere in the United 00:22:06.359 --> 00:22:12.029 States. And was the attempt to try to back -engineer 00:22:12.029 --> 00:22:14.069 this thing? Was the attempt to try to understand 00:22:14.069 --> 00:22:17.150 what it was? Yeah, I mean, first of it, obviously, 00:22:17.150 --> 00:22:19.329 it's understanding the situation, right? What 00:22:19.329 --> 00:22:23.430 do we have our hands on? And like I've said in 00:22:23.430 --> 00:22:24.849 some other videos and stuff, you know, that we 00:22:24.849 --> 00:22:26.930 took the Manhattan Project secrecy and overlaid 00:22:26.930 --> 00:22:28.930 it on this issue because that secrecy worked 00:22:28.930 --> 00:22:32.109 well for atomic bomb developments and whatnot. 00:22:32.490 --> 00:22:36.289 And certainly... This whole program in a nutshell, 00:22:36.569 --> 00:22:39.589 if I were to like summarize the 90 plus years 00:22:39.589 --> 00:22:43.410 of history, it is a reverse engineering program 00:22:43.410 --> 00:22:48.170 to garner some kind of insight. And of course, 00:22:48.170 --> 00:22:51.470 not a lot of the things that we've learned from 00:22:51.470 --> 00:22:54.990 it are like directly, you know, ripped off the 00:22:54.990 --> 00:22:58.589 technology we found, but it has inspired. other 00:22:58.589 --> 00:23:01.109 innovations that made its way into other U .S. 00:23:01.109 --> 00:23:03.390 classified programs over the year for national 00:23:03.390 --> 00:23:06.230 defense reasons. It's a myriad of different things. 00:23:06.470 --> 00:23:10.309 The UFO folklore is that this is where fiber 00:23:10.309 --> 00:23:13.730 optics were discovered first. Yeah, I'm not going 00:23:13.730 --> 00:23:15.430 to break the seal on anything we've discovered 00:23:15.430 --> 00:23:19.490 or anything like that. Yeah, it's a place I can't 00:23:19.490 --> 00:23:21.950 go to. How limited are you in what you can discuss 00:23:21.950 --> 00:23:24.609 and what you can't discuss, and why do they let 00:23:24.609 --> 00:23:27.200 you discuss any of this? Yeah, so... Anything 00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:29.519 sensitive that I want to say as it relates to 00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:31.559 like U .S. government activity, whether it be 00:23:31.559 --> 00:23:33.480 intelligence stuff, military stuff, et cetera, 00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:35.579 I have to submit it through what they call DOPSR, 00:23:35.819 --> 00:23:38.480 DOD Office of Pre -Publication and Security Review. 00:23:39.099 --> 00:23:41.160 That is something anybody who's been an intel 00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:44.140 officer, anybody with like a clearance has to 00:23:44.140 --> 00:23:47.140 submit that kind of stuff. Now, obviously, if 00:23:47.140 --> 00:23:48.799 you're writing a book about gardening, you don't 00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:51.019 have to. But if you're going to talk about anything 00:23:51.019 --> 00:23:53.339 military and intelligence related, you have to 00:23:53.339 --> 00:23:57.579 submit. It's kind of a catch 22 for this office, 00:23:57.660 --> 00:24:00.000 right? They're only looking at it from a security 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:03.680 perspective. They're not vouching for it or anything 00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:05.680 like that. And that's like any author, right? 00:24:05.720 --> 00:24:08.240 They could write a book about Navy SEALs and 00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:10.599 they're not vouching for the story. They're vouching 00:24:10.599 --> 00:24:13.839 that you didn't say any nasty code words. You 00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:16.940 didn't burn a specific ongoing classified program. 00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:20.380 And for them, I mean, I'm not in their OODA loop, 00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:23.559 but certainly. It's a catch -22 for them where 00:24:23.559 --> 00:24:27.220 if they want to redact and they propose a redaction, 00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:28.599 they're like, hey, Dave, you can't say these 00:24:28.599 --> 00:24:31.680 sentences. You can rewrite it and resubmit. We 00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:35.640 can't necessarily tell you what agency said to 00:24:35.640 --> 00:24:38.180 redact it, but you're not allowed to say this. 00:24:40.019 --> 00:24:42.500 They would be basically self -certifying there's 00:24:42.500 --> 00:24:46.250 a there there. In my opinion, probably the policy 00:24:46.250 --> 00:24:48.450 is like if it has to deal with the subject, we're 00:24:48.450 --> 00:24:50.410 not saying anything. We're not proposing any 00:24:50.410 --> 00:24:53.990 redactions. As long as he's not burning a conventional 00:24:53.990 --> 00:24:59.289 program, we kind of have to allow him to exercise 00:24:59.289 --> 00:25:01.509 his First Amendment rights. So I think it's like 00:25:01.509 --> 00:25:04.250 a catch 22 for that office is kind of the long 00:25:04.250 --> 00:25:08.289 or the short of the long answer. So this is essentially 00:25:08.289 --> 00:25:13.579 one of the very early ones, 1933. How many? crash 00:25:13.579 --> 00:25:17.240 retrieval incidents have there been? It is double 00:25:17.240 --> 00:25:21.839 digit. The specific numbers, I do know. However, 00:25:21.940 --> 00:25:23.700 I can't discuss that. I know it sounds like, 00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:28.019 oh, I'm being coy or whatever. But, you know, 00:25:28.019 --> 00:25:30.500 this show, any other interviews I do, right, 00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:32.500 you know, Ford Intelligence Services are watching. 00:25:32.819 --> 00:25:34.900 And it's like, I'm not here to help Russia and 00:25:34.900 --> 00:25:38.160 China calibrate their intelligence collection. 00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:41.720 Like, oh, Dave said it's this number. We missed 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:45.000 a couple. Shit, let's put it out for the KGB, 00:25:45.140 --> 00:25:47.720 SVR, and GRU are now going to hit the streets 00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:49.200 to try to figure out which ones they missed. 00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:52.519 So I'm here to protect national security, and 00:25:52.519 --> 00:25:55.900 I'm just trying to put all the general topics 00:25:55.900 --> 00:25:58.500 out there for public conversation to hold our 00:25:58.500 --> 00:26:02.039 government accountable, really. Because I'm here 00:26:02.039 --> 00:26:06.440 as a fact witness because we have a constitutional 00:26:06.440 --> 00:26:11.640 oversight issue because this program. has not 00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:15.299 been reported to Congress in the appropriate 00:26:15.299 --> 00:26:20.059 way. And I can get into a senator I talked to 00:26:20.059 --> 00:26:24.519 that has died recently, so I can explain to you 00:26:24.519 --> 00:26:29.119 why I'm so sure. Besides what I read, which we 00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:31.500 can get into what intel reports I read, I did 00:26:31.500 --> 00:26:35.900 get some stuff cleared. During my investigation, 00:26:36.180 --> 00:26:38.660 I'm like, you know what? I need to talk to somebody 00:26:38.660 --> 00:26:41.539 at the highest levels. Right. So and this will 00:26:41.539 --> 00:26:43.819 give you an idea of the kind of people we talk 00:26:43.819 --> 00:26:45.440 to. And this is the only one I'm going to talk 00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:47.519 about using their name because they died two 00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:51.779 years ago. So in spring 2021, I actually flew 00:26:51.779 --> 00:26:54.279 with a couple of colleagues of mine to Las Vegas. 00:26:54.759 --> 00:26:58.539 And I met with Senator Harry Reid about nine 00:26:58.539 --> 00:27:01.019 months before he died. And of course, he's a 00:27:01.019 --> 00:27:03.039 private citizen now. And I wanted to brief him 00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:06.940 on. the topic and i wanted to get his kind of 00:27:06.940 --> 00:27:08.579 thought leadership on it because you know he 00:27:08.579 --> 00:27:10.660 was a gang of eight member right you know which 00:27:10.660 --> 00:27:14.099 is the top most cleared senators and congressmen 00:27:14.099 --> 00:27:16.519 he was the majority leader for god's sakes of 00:27:16.519 --> 00:27:19.240 the senate and i knew you know he helped sponsor 00:27:19.240 --> 00:27:23.900 the osap program that i mentioned and where they 00:27:23.900 --> 00:27:25.880 looked at skinwalker ranch and some other things 00:27:25.880 --> 00:27:29.019 and i wanted to understand like what does harry 00:27:29.019 --> 00:27:32.079 reid actually know like why did he you know, 00:27:32.099 --> 00:27:35.160 give $21 million to DIA and Bigelow Aerospace 00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:40.019 for this. So I'm sitting there in Harry Reid's 00:27:40.019 --> 00:27:42.220 living room, you know, right next to him with 00:27:42.220 --> 00:27:44.660 some other witnesses that were there with me. 00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:48.259 And he straight up says, he's like, yeah, I knew 00:27:48.259 --> 00:27:51.559 we had UFO material. I was denied access for 00:27:51.559 --> 00:27:56.259 decades. I tried to get access. And then he explained 00:27:56.259 --> 00:28:00.720 some of his efforts during OSAP. And I was like, 00:28:01.119 --> 00:28:03.519 Holy shit. Did the former majority leader just 00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:05.839 say that he just confirmed this to me as well? 00:28:06.059 --> 00:28:08.420 You know, I was already talking to these amazing 00:28:08.420 --> 00:28:11.839 high level people, but I have Harry Reid literally 00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:15.220 saying, yes, we have material. And, you know, 00:28:15.220 --> 00:28:17.859 he knew it was non -human. Did Harry Reid have 00:28:17.859 --> 00:28:20.599 personal experience with this? I don't know if 00:28:20.599 --> 00:28:23.119 he's had any personal stuff in his personal life. 00:28:23.160 --> 00:28:26.640 I mean, did he see it? Did he witness? In terms 00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:30.119 of seeing the material himself, he said he was 00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:35.480 denied access for years. Decades was his term. 00:28:35.579 --> 00:28:39.039 And he actually told me on behalf of me, he was 00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:42.039 going. So he had like a weekly call with President 00:28:42.039 --> 00:28:45.000 Joe Biden at the time. And he straight up said 00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:47.660 to me he was going to talk to President Biden 00:28:47.660 --> 00:28:53.220 about this issue, literally. And then what he 00:28:53.220 --> 00:28:57.779 was telling me about OSAP. I was like, holy shit. 00:28:58.039 --> 00:29:00.380 I have like 20 other people that told me this, 00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:03.660 dude. So the real history, what fucking OSAP 00:29:03.660 --> 00:29:05.500 was, because I think there's a lot of people 00:29:05.500 --> 00:29:08.480 out there that think they were looking at ghosts, 00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:11.759 Skinwalker Ranch. Yes, they went to the ranch 00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:15.539 as a secondary and tertiary objective. But the 00:29:15.539 --> 00:29:20.279 real reason, so like there's a document that 00:29:20.279 --> 00:29:23.450 came out a couple years ago through FOIA. from 00:29:23.450 --> 00:29:25.329 the Defense Intelligence Agency, there was this 00:29:25.329 --> 00:29:28.890 special access program request that Harry Reid, 00:29:28.930 --> 00:29:30.589 you might have seen this, I think, like George 00:29:30.589 --> 00:29:34.130 Knapp and company have reported on this, that 00:29:34.130 --> 00:29:36.069 he sent to the Deputy Secretary of Defense, William 00:29:36.069 --> 00:29:39.869 Lynn. And it was asking for one of the most serious 00:29:39.869 --> 00:29:42.490 saps you can ask for, what they call a bigoted, 00:29:42.589 --> 00:29:46.329 waived special access program. So waived means 00:29:46.329 --> 00:29:49.799 it's limited congressional reporting. That is 00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:52.240 a class of special access programs. And bigoted 00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:54.099 means it's like by name. And it's like it was 00:29:54.099 --> 00:29:56.559 like you could read the FOIA document. It was 00:29:56.559 --> 00:29:59.480 like, you know, Harry Reid, James Inhofe, Lou 00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:02.259 Elizondo, et cetera. And I'm like, why are you 00:30:02.259 --> 00:30:05.559 asking for the most serious sap to be created 00:30:05.559 --> 00:30:10.339 for a program that ostensibly is looking at Skinwalker 00:30:10.339 --> 00:30:12.299 Ranch and stuff? And it doesn't make any sense. 00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:17.619 So what really happened there and. You know, 00:30:17.640 --> 00:30:21.119 Harry Reid, God bless his soul, made this disclosure 00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:25.460 a couple weeks after we met in The New Yorker. 00:30:25.480 --> 00:30:26.920 And you can look this up. I think it was like 00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:31.059 a May 2021 New Yorker story where he says, I 00:30:31.059 --> 00:30:32.900 knew for decades and he made this disclosure, 00:30:32.940 --> 00:30:34.859 not me. So I'm going to say the name of the contractor. 00:30:35.180 --> 00:30:38.480 Harry Reid said this, you know. We knew that 00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:40.559 Lockheed Martin had this material for decades. 00:30:40.779 --> 00:30:43.880 I tried to get access and I was denied. And specifically 00:30:43.880 --> 00:30:46.160 with the Lockheed Martin stuff, he was talking 00:30:46.160 --> 00:30:50.079 about during the OSAP program. And for the people 00:30:50.079 --> 00:30:51.759 who are on this program, I submitted this shit 00:30:51.759 --> 00:30:54.500 to the officer, got this cleared. So don't freak 00:30:54.500 --> 00:30:58.759 out. But I'm telling the truth here. So Lockheed 00:30:58.759 --> 00:31:01.920 Martin wanted to divest itself from this material 00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:04.220 at a specific facility that's known to me that 00:31:04.220 --> 00:31:08.059 I provided to the inspector general. like street 00:31:08.059 --> 00:31:11.440 address, all that shit. Right. And the idea was 00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:14.039 if they made a catcher's mitt, a security catcher's 00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:17.079 mitt for this shit, you know, most serious sap 00:31:17.079 --> 00:31:20.200 possible, the contractor and the other government 00:31:20.200 --> 00:31:22.220 customer, which was the central intelligence 00:31:22.220 --> 00:31:26.980 agency for that specific Lockheed material. And 00:31:26.980 --> 00:31:28.579 it was shit that they recovered from like the 00:31:28.579 --> 00:31:30.480 fifties and stuff. And it was like bits and pieces 00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:33.880 of, of, of, of like hall structure, shit like 00:31:33.880 --> 00:31:39.829 that. And. So they were going to tech transfer 00:31:39.829 --> 00:31:43.190 it. And the 21 or 22 million dollars was actually 00:31:43.190 --> 00:31:47.069 for Bigelow Aerospace to build out, you know, 00:31:47.069 --> 00:31:50.950 facilities in Las Vegas and material analysis 00:31:50.950 --> 00:31:53.369 equipment. And I've seen I have I saw the staff 00:31:53.369 --> 00:31:55.490 meeting slides. I saw the paperwork like there's 00:31:55.490 --> 00:31:58.029 a paperwork trail I've seen on this shit. And 00:31:58.029 --> 00:32:00.670 I talked to the people involved in this program. 00:32:00.789 --> 00:32:03.190 And, you know, even Jim Lakatsky, who ran the 00:32:03.190 --> 00:32:06.720 program. who's a retired DIA officer, PhD in 00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:08.500 engineering, even made this disclosure in his 00:32:08.500 --> 00:32:13.099 book, Skinwalkers at the Pentagon, page 152 to 00:32:13.099 --> 00:32:17.460 153. And he also made a disclosure a couple weeks 00:32:17.460 --> 00:32:21.720 ago, I think it was on Weaponize podcast with 00:32:21.720 --> 00:32:25.519 Jeremy Korbel and George Knapp, where he's like, 00:32:25.599 --> 00:32:28.519 yeah, we had a whole craft and we broke into 00:32:28.519 --> 00:32:31.920 the hall and we gained access. And he ran that 00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:34.579 through the same security process as I did. And 00:32:34.579 --> 00:32:38.119 so Jim Lekatsky, who ran this program, is also 00:32:38.119 --> 00:32:41.759 going on the record that he is aware, personally 00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:45.200 aware of intact vehicles and everything. So they 00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:47.880 gained access. What does that mean? And by what 00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:50.240 method did they gain access? The way he wrote 00:32:50.240 --> 00:32:53.619 it in his book, I can only infer it sounded forcible. 00:32:53.960 --> 00:32:57.839 So through some kind of... You know, means, I 00:32:57.839 --> 00:32:59.559 don't know if it was like CO2 laser or something. 00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:01.140 I don't actually know how they gained access. 00:33:01.359 --> 00:33:04.960 But imagine it was not permissive access. They 00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:07.279 like broke into the damn thing. So this thing 00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:12.059 is essentially sealed. And it's some sort of, 00:33:12.079 --> 00:33:16.259 what was the shape of this thing? Delkatsky didn't 00:33:16.259 --> 00:33:18.480 disclose the shape on this particular vehicle. 00:33:18.740 --> 00:33:20.599 As far as I recollect. What about the dimensions? 00:33:21.579 --> 00:33:24.119 I don't believe he did in his book. But I think 00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:26.299 it's like chapter 11 in his new book or something. 00:33:26.359 --> 00:33:29.019 I glanced at it. But he did make that disclosure 00:33:29.019 --> 00:33:32.759 on video as well. And I do encourage both the 00:33:32.759 --> 00:33:36.359 AERO office, which is the DOD's UAP task force 00:33:36.359 --> 00:33:39.859 successor, and Congress to ask Dr. James Lukatsky 00:33:39.859 --> 00:33:43.480 to come in for classified testimony because the 00:33:43.480 --> 00:33:45.619 disclosure in his one book that he wrote with 00:33:45.619 --> 00:33:47.920 Colm Kelleher, George Knapp, and in the second 00:33:47.920 --> 00:33:50.980 book, well, the guy saying he has close personal 00:33:50.980 --> 00:33:54.869 knowledge. He needs to go to Congress. So I, 00:33:54.990 --> 00:33:57.769 you know, I don't know James Lekatsky, but I 00:33:57.769 --> 00:34:00.529 do encourage him to be a fact witness. But going 00:34:00.529 --> 00:34:03.430 back to that transfer with Lockheed, long story 00:34:03.430 --> 00:34:05.390 short, can't get in all the nuanced details, 00:34:05.450 --> 00:34:11.989 but basically the CIA said, fuck you to DIA and 00:34:11.989 --> 00:34:15.630 Lockheed. And it was totally killed. So Harry 00:34:15.630 --> 00:34:18.570 Reid's request to get the material transferred 00:34:18.570 --> 00:34:21.769 to the OSAP program. was totally killed because 00:34:21.769 --> 00:34:25.170 of bureaucracy and kind of fiefdom stuff. So 00:34:25.170 --> 00:34:28.989 they used that money, and then they wrote those 00:34:28.989 --> 00:34:31.449 defense intelligence reference documents, the 00:34:31.449 --> 00:34:34.730 DIRDs, as a lot of people who's familiar with 00:34:34.730 --> 00:34:37.610 it listening will know about. And then they did 00:34:37.610 --> 00:34:41.690 look at Skinwalker Ranch because they thought 00:34:41.690 --> 00:34:46.150 that studying kind of the more woo -woo phenomenon 00:34:46.150 --> 00:34:48.929 aspects of this, and I've never been to the ranch, 00:34:49.050 --> 00:34:51.090 so I've never... experienced the ranch for myself, 00:34:51.289 --> 00:34:53.610 but, you know, obviously I think we both know 00:34:53.610 --> 00:34:54.989 a bunch of people that have been to the ranch 00:34:54.989 --> 00:34:57.210 and have seen some trippy stuff or at least alleged 00:34:57.210 --> 00:35:00.510 that, um, they thought that they would be able 00:35:00.510 --> 00:35:03.230 to gain currency with the, with the program, 00:35:03.489 --> 00:35:07.650 you know, and in this case, CIA to unlock the 00:35:07.650 --> 00:35:10.329 key for the Lockheed Martin stuff, uh, which 00:35:10.329 --> 00:35:11.610 actually I'll tell you right now, it's like so 00:35:11.610 --> 00:35:14.150 weird to say that, but I, I ran that shit through 00:35:14.150 --> 00:35:17.150 security. Um, yeah, to me, it's like an out -of 00:35:17.150 --> 00:35:18.710 -body experience to talk about that kind of, 00:35:18.769 --> 00:35:22.269 uh, detailed sensitivity, stuff like that. But 00:35:22.269 --> 00:35:25.929 basically they studied the ranch to gain favor, 00:35:26.030 --> 00:35:27.570 to be like, hey, look at all this stuff we're 00:35:27.570 --> 00:35:29.889 figuring out, this paranormal stuff that's somehow 00:35:29.889 --> 00:35:32.949 connected to the phenomenon on the ranch. But 00:35:32.949 --> 00:35:35.150 ultimately they never gained favor with the government 00:35:35.150 --> 00:35:37.889 customer. And then the program kind of died a 00:35:37.889 --> 00:35:40.489 slow death because of a lot of politics in the 00:35:40.489 --> 00:35:44.429 Pentagon. So that's kind of the long but short 00:35:44.429 --> 00:35:47.710 of it with the OSAP program that, you know, I 00:35:47.710 --> 00:35:50.110 wanted to make sure the public knew. It's not 00:35:50.110 --> 00:35:53.150 what you think it was. There was some other stuff 00:35:53.150 --> 00:35:55.789 behind the scenes that I wanted to speak truth 00:35:55.789 --> 00:35:59.010 to power on. So this particular vehicle that 00:35:59.010 --> 00:36:02.309 they had recovered from the 1950s, what was the 00:36:02.309 --> 00:36:06.510 source of it? Where did they find it? Those details, 00:36:06.690 --> 00:36:12.590 I did not get cleared. So they have in possession 00:36:12.590 --> 00:36:15.949 this thing. They gain access to this thing. And 00:36:15.949 --> 00:36:17.670 what do they report once they've gained access 00:36:17.670 --> 00:36:21.000 to it? Oh, those details I do not know. That's 00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:25.280 probably a question for Dr. Lukatsky. I presume 00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:27.820 he knows those details. I don't know. So this 00:36:27.820 --> 00:36:33.079 thing is housed somewhere. It is, yes. Currently. 00:36:35.139 --> 00:36:37.400 It may still be in the same location that I know 00:36:37.400 --> 00:36:41.440 about, yes. And how many people have access to 00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:44.659 this and how did they prevent this information 00:36:44.659 --> 00:36:48.420 from being released? I mean, you know, it goes 00:36:48.420 --> 00:36:50.579 back to the compartmentation and kind of the 00:36:50.579 --> 00:36:52.920 ecosystem of secrecy in this community. Right. 00:36:53.079 --> 00:36:56.239 You know, only a limited amount of people, you 00:36:56.239 --> 00:36:58.219 know, at least at the time, you know, on Lockheed 00:36:58.219 --> 00:37:01.400 Martin's side. And Lockheed Martin was complaining 00:37:01.400 --> 00:37:04.280 basically like, look, like the secrecy is ridiculous. 00:37:05.050 --> 00:37:07.650 We can't even bring the right engineers. Like 00:37:07.650 --> 00:37:10.829 imagine you're like a hot engineer, hot shot 00:37:10.829 --> 00:37:13.690 engineer. You might be hot too. I don't know. 00:37:13.869 --> 00:37:16.329 But that, you know, you're fresh out of grad 00:37:16.329 --> 00:37:18.610 school. Maybe you're like the best PhD electrical 00:37:18.610 --> 00:37:21.090 engineer. You want to do cool shit. You want 00:37:21.090 --> 00:37:24.150 to publish an IEEE. You want to like, you know, 00:37:24.150 --> 00:37:26.809 climb the ladder corporately, you know, and that 00:37:26.809 --> 00:37:30.170 kind of thing. A Lockheed Martin executive comes 00:37:30.170 --> 00:37:34.570 to you. Yeah, dude. You're going to I can reach 00:37:34.570 --> 00:37:36.889 into something really crazy, but you're never 00:37:36.889 --> 00:37:39.210 going to publish papers on it. You're never going 00:37:39.210 --> 00:37:40.869 to be able to tell people what you worked on. 00:37:40.929 --> 00:37:43.510 And it's probably not the most career enhancing. 00:37:43.750 --> 00:37:46.309 But if you want to work on something cool, but 00:37:46.309 --> 00:37:48.829 I can't tell you because it's unacknowledged 00:37:48.829 --> 00:37:51.269 until you sign this piece of paper, non -disclosure 00:37:51.269 --> 00:37:58.309 agreement. You know, sorry, but here's the raw 00:37:58.309 --> 00:38:00.309 deal. And, you know, a lot of people are like, 00:38:00.369 --> 00:38:03.250 fuck you. No. And and it's not like Lockheed 00:38:03.250 --> 00:38:05.909 Martin could broadcast this to universities like 00:38:05.909 --> 00:38:09.210 come work for us. You'll work on crazy shit. 00:38:09.630 --> 00:38:13.750 And but that is very akin to a lot of other black 00:38:13.750 --> 00:38:15.969 programs in the government that are out acknowledging 00:38:15.969 --> 00:38:18.349 nature. You don't know what you're signing up 00:38:18.349 --> 00:38:20.409 for until you get bred in. And I've you know, 00:38:20.409 --> 00:38:22.070 I've been briefed to a lot of that kind of conventional 00:38:22.070 --> 00:38:26.280 stuff in my career. So that's one of the problems 00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:29.099 that Bob Lazar, and I'd love to get your take 00:38:29.099 --> 00:38:31.420 on Bob Lazar, one of the things that he talked 00:38:31.420 --> 00:38:35.400 about was that science can't really operate in 00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:38.059 a vacuum. When you separate the metallurgists 00:38:38.059 --> 00:38:41.460 from the propulsions experts, from the biological 00:38:41.460 --> 00:38:43.960 experts, and they're not allowed to communicate 00:38:43.960 --> 00:38:45.519 with each other, and they're not allowed to bring 00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:47.760 in other experts to have different... Well, that 00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:50.440 was the frustration that I had some friends that 00:38:50.440 --> 00:38:52.780 I've known my entire career, like almost 14 years, 00:38:52.900 --> 00:38:56.280 right? I literally know them personally. I had 00:38:56.280 --> 00:38:58.440 a relationship with them, but they ended up, 00:38:58.440 --> 00:39:01.179 you know, spilling the beans where, you know, 00:39:01.179 --> 00:39:03.699 look, we're on the program. I'm an engineer for 00:39:03.699 --> 00:39:08.079 X, Y, and Z. We can't even cross talk across 00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:10.880 like the cubicles for God's sakes. Like I can't, 00:39:10.880 --> 00:39:15.329 I'm looking at material X doing some. X -ray 00:39:15.329 --> 00:39:17.570 diffraction testing on it, which is like shooting 00:39:17.570 --> 00:39:20.329 a stream of electrons and seeing how it bends 00:39:20.329 --> 00:39:22.909 and looking at the atomic arrangements. I can't 00:39:22.909 --> 00:39:25.510 even like crosstalk that with another aspect 00:39:25.510 --> 00:39:28.030 of the program. This is like ridiculous. And 00:39:28.030 --> 00:39:32.210 that's kind of their frustration. Yeah, I knew 00:39:32.210 --> 00:39:33.570 you were probably going to ask me about Bulbasaur. 00:39:33.750 --> 00:39:37.769 I figured as much. Why did they do that, though? 00:39:37.809 --> 00:39:39.570 If everybody was already sworn to secrecy, everybody 00:39:39.570 --> 00:39:42.369 already has NDAs, it seems the most effective 00:39:42.369 --> 00:39:45.250 way of reverse engineering or at least gaining 00:39:45.250 --> 00:39:47.070 an understanding of how these things are structured. 00:39:47.070 --> 00:39:48.969 Well, that's exactly how Manhattan was, right? 00:39:49.050 --> 00:39:51.889 People working on the fuses for the bomb. didn't 00:39:51.889 --> 00:39:54.190 necessarily know it was going to a nuclear weapon. 00:39:54.670 --> 00:39:57.570 And I've seen this kind of compartmentationist, 00:39:57.570 --> 00:40:00.349 obtuse secrecy in other programs, and it is debilitating 00:40:00.349 --> 00:40:04.590 for progress. And honestly, as a former fiduciary 00:40:04.590 --> 00:40:07.769 of the taxpayer dollars, it's not the best modus 00:40:07.769 --> 00:40:12.300 operandus to do it that way. And very few people 00:40:12.300 --> 00:40:14.280 kind of had that top down, could look across 00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:17.400 the silos and see what was going on. It just 00:40:17.400 --> 00:40:19.559 became very dysfunctional. And they were afraid 00:40:19.559 --> 00:40:22.960 of people being too cross briefed into the different 00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:26.440 silos for counter espionage, counterintelligence. 00:40:26.960 --> 00:40:29.739 You know, they were going to remember a bulk 00:40:29.739 --> 00:40:31.900 of this program is done during the Cold War. 00:40:32.679 --> 00:40:34.920 And, you know, we were afraid of Russian spies, 00:40:35.219 --> 00:40:38.000 Soviet moles. And so we made it ultra locked 00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:41.179 down. but to the detriment of national security. 00:40:41.500 --> 00:40:44.079 And that was one of the crazy things that got 00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:45.960 me that I wanted to whistleblow on because I'm 00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:48.300 like, this is so stupid. We should be making 00:40:48.300 --> 00:40:50.619 more progress on this. Were there any breaches 00:40:50.619 --> 00:40:52.559 that you're aware of where foreign agents were 00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:55.159 able to gain access to materials or an understanding 00:40:55.159 --> 00:41:00.079 of what we know? So I'll tell you about some 00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:02.300 intel documents I read that kind of obliquely 00:41:02.300 --> 00:41:05.900 answers that question. So there were sensitive 00:41:05.900 --> 00:41:08.539 human -derived foreign intelligence that I read. 00:41:08.940 --> 00:41:13.679 So I had access to kind of the AATIP OSAP classified 00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:16.260 archives and I was like thumbing through everything 00:41:16.260 --> 00:41:18.519 and there's other people were bringing me documents 00:41:18.519 --> 00:41:25.219 to evaluate. And I'll never forget I had to say 00:41:25.219 --> 00:41:28.619 stolen by the US intelligence assessment from 00:41:28.619 --> 00:41:31.880 a certain foreign adversary discussing the US 00:41:31.880 --> 00:41:35.000 reverse engineering program. And I was like. 00:41:35.820 --> 00:41:38.099 And that was actually another like, what the 00:41:38.099 --> 00:41:42.699 fuck? And and so I had an adversary also confirm 00:41:42.699 --> 00:41:45.820 this program literally because of exfiltrated 00:41:45.820 --> 00:41:51.139 intelligence. And so they certainly had a limited 00:41:51.139 --> 00:41:54.139 knowledge, at least fact of that the U .S. had 00:41:54.139 --> 00:41:56.119 a program like this, a particular adversary. 00:41:56.199 --> 00:42:00.280 And actually. I was like, well, I want more like 00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:03.079 I know who wrote this letter or who got it right 00:42:03.079 --> 00:42:05.159 on behalf of the United States government. So 00:42:05.159 --> 00:42:07.500 I went to that certain agency through the approved 00:42:07.500 --> 00:42:10.300 and official way. And this is kind of part of 00:42:10.300 --> 00:42:14.699 the merriest reprisals against me. The agency 00:42:14.699 --> 00:42:16.719 was like, oh, yes, we have what you're looking 00:42:16.719 --> 00:42:20.360 for, Dave. You're going to need to sign a one 00:42:20.360 --> 00:42:23.539 time read into something, you know, come visit 00:42:23.539 --> 00:42:26.139 us. You know, go to the vault and read it, right? 00:42:26.199 --> 00:42:29.179 You know, hard copy. But yes, we have what you're 00:42:29.179 --> 00:42:33.760 looking for. And ultimately, from what I was 00:42:33.760 --> 00:42:36.019 told by friends in higher places, my request 00:42:36.019 --> 00:42:37.840 kind of went up the flagpole at that agency. 00:42:38.980 --> 00:42:42.980 And all of a sudden, the agency ghosted my boss 00:42:42.980 --> 00:42:45.940 and I for like two months. And then when I really 00:42:45.940 --> 00:42:48.239 pressed them hard to gain access, because I'm 00:42:48.239 --> 00:42:51.360 like, I have a need to know. I need to evaluate 00:42:51.360 --> 00:42:55.420 this intelligence for fucking Congress. And they 00:42:55.420 --> 00:43:00.659 debriefed me from all my accesses over in that 00:43:00.659 --> 00:43:04.800 other sister agency and made up some bogus excuse 00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:06.440 like I shouldn't have been briefed anything in 00:43:06.440 --> 00:43:09.980 the first place, literally. And basically gave 00:43:09.980 --> 00:43:12.460 me an administrative middle finger like persona 00:43:12.460 --> 00:43:15.440 non grata. Don't ever fucking ask us about that 00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:18.780 shit again. And I'm sure the person who made 00:43:18.780 --> 00:43:21.340 the oops that told me they had what I was looking 00:43:21.340 --> 00:43:24.239 for. probably got admonished and slapped on the 00:43:24.239 --> 00:43:26.300 wrist because I never heard from that person 00:43:26.300 --> 00:43:28.360 again, even though it was somebody I actually 00:43:28.360 --> 00:43:32.800 used to work on occasion with. So that was also 00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:38.219 another way I knew I was, you know, there was 00:43:38.219 --> 00:43:40.199 a lot of smoke and fire because I, you know, 00:43:40.199 --> 00:43:45.500 had stuff like that happen to me. So this, but 00:43:45.500 --> 00:43:50.300 knowing that our adversaries. We're aware of 00:43:50.300 --> 00:43:53.440 this reverse engineering program. Are we aware 00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:56.320 of their reverse engineering programs? Yeah. 00:43:57.039 --> 00:44:01.400 Which countries? You could probably guess, and 00:44:01.400 --> 00:44:05.179 it won't be too shocking. Okay. But I won't acknowledge 00:44:05.179 --> 00:44:09.380 what the U .S. may know. Right. So are we aware 00:44:09.380 --> 00:44:13.440 of numbers in terms of at least a rough estimate 00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:17.320 of how many are available to these other? Yeah. 00:44:17.789 --> 00:44:20.369 How many? That's like super sensitive. But there's 00:44:20.369 --> 00:44:22.989 more than one. Yeah. You can read into that. 00:44:23.030 --> 00:44:26.349 You can read into that. And has anyone made any 00:44:26.349 --> 00:44:31.389 progress? Yeah, I can't get into if we've made 00:44:31.389 --> 00:44:34.010 progress, if they've made progress, because that's 00:44:34.010 --> 00:44:35.869 like straight up some national security stuff. 00:44:36.030 --> 00:44:39.570 But like, I want the, just to be clear, I want 00:44:39.570 --> 00:44:43.329 the U .S. populace to learn a lot of this. And 00:44:43.329 --> 00:44:45.750 this is why, you know, another reason why I went 00:44:45.750 --> 00:44:48.539 public is like. I need to call everybody out. 00:44:48.559 --> 00:44:50.599 I'm not here to admonish the entire government, 00:44:50.679 --> 00:44:53.559 mind you. But there is an element of the U .S. 00:44:53.559 --> 00:44:55.960 government and its clear defense contractor base 00:44:55.960 --> 00:44:59.880 that, you know, we have a three branch of government 00:44:59.880 --> 00:45:02.260 oversight issue, like going back to Harry Reid. 00:45:02.360 --> 00:45:04.300 Harry Reid didn't even get access. I fucking 00:45:04.300 --> 00:45:07.239 talked to myself to confirm that. And he said 00:45:07.239 --> 00:45:11.650 he was going to go talk to Biden because. I think 00:45:11.650 --> 00:45:13.730 there needs to be a disclosure plan. And this 00:45:13.730 --> 00:45:15.869 goes back to what's currently in legislation 00:45:15.869 --> 00:45:20.050 right now. That's super fucking important. Because 00:45:20.050 --> 00:45:25.289 90 some odd percent of this should be open for 00:45:25.289 --> 00:45:29.590 public discovery, public analysis and academia. 00:45:29.989 --> 00:45:33.409 This should be like, at very least, true nuclear 00:45:33.409 --> 00:45:37.130 programs such as nuclear physics, you study in 00:45:37.130 --> 00:45:41.380 a university. Nuclear weapons, classified. Because 00:45:41.380 --> 00:45:43.719 that makes people in the pink mist. That's really 00:45:43.719 --> 00:45:45.599 sensitive. We don't need everybody to know how 00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:49.559 to do that. So I think the stuff that is like 00:45:49.559 --> 00:45:52.460 legit weapons related stuff, that's like straight 00:45:52.460 --> 00:45:56.079 up national superiority stuff. Sure. Reasonably 00:45:56.079 --> 00:46:01.340 classify that. But but this these programs, we 00:46:01.340 --> 00:46:04.760 need a change. And that's why you saw the Schumer 00:46:04.760 --> 00:46:06.360 Amendment. Right. And I think you might have. 00:46:07.190 --> 00:46:09.349 read that on air or something in a previous episode, 00:46:09.429 --> 00:46:12.130 if I remember correctly, you know, Chuck Schumer. 00:46:12.150 --> 00:46:13.929 And I knew about the amendment a couple of months 00:46:13.929 --> 00:46:15.670 before I went public. And that's kind of another 00:46:15.670 --> 00:46:18.969 reason why I did what I did. I'm like, fuck. 00:46:19.010 --> 00:46:21.170 I'm like the only guy that kind of has the opportunity 00:46:21.170 --> 00:46:24.150 to do this. I know what's in the chute, so to 00:46:24.150 --> 00:46:26.769 speak, that Chuck Schumer and his staff had with 00:46:26.769 --> 00:46:29.710 the Schumer amendment, which is 67 pages of literal. 00:46:30.460 --> 00:46:34.599 We want to disclose. And I'm like, I have to 00:46:34.599 --> 00:46:37.440 spike the football by going public because, you 00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:39.260 know, I can read the tea leaves on the hill. 00:46:39.380 --> 00:46:41.179 And I think that they were hesitant to do anything 00:46:41.179 --> 00:46:45.099 without being able to point to something publicly. 00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:47.579 And I'm like, I'll be that fucking guy and just 00:46:47.579 --> 00:46:52.840 send it. And then, of course, a month after I 00:46:52.840 --> 00:46:57.380 went public, I guess I pushed Chuck Schumer over 00:46:57.380 --> 00:47:00.159 the ledge. And I do know he talked to the White 00:47:00.159 --> 00:47:01.880 House about the amendment, too, because it's 00:47:01.880 --> 00:47:04.699 not like Chuck Schumer is going to propose groundbreaking 00:47:04.699 --> 00:47:06.920 legislation like that without talking to the 00:47:06.920 --> 00:47:09.079 national security advisor or president. Like, 00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:13.039 I imagine he did so. And, you know, so you have 00:47:13.039 --> 00:47:15.599 the 67 page amendments, right? It's called the 00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:19.719 UAP Disclosure Act of 2023, known as the Schumer 00:47:19.719 --> 00:47:23.179 Amendment. Co -sponsors were Young, Gillibrand, 00:47:23.440 --> 00:47:28.519 Rubio. rounds. Yeah. And, you know, kudos for 00:47:28.519 --> 00:47:30.820 those senators for stepping up to the plate because 00:47:30.820 --> 00:47:33.880 they know this is real. I know what meetings 00:47:33.880 --> 00:47:35.800 they've had with certain other individuals that 00:47:35.800 --> 00:47:37.780 are, you know, even more credible than myself. 00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:42.500 And so this this act, which is like super important, 00:47:42.639 --> 00:47:47.119 is currently in conference as we speak in Capitol 00:47:47.119 --> 00:47:49.920 Hill. So the amendment is wrapped in something 00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:53.889 called the fiscal year 2024. National Defense 00:47:53.889 --> 00:47:56.190 Authorization Act. So that is the act that funds 00:47:56.190 --> 00:47:58.590 the military basically every year, right? So 00:47:58.590 --> 00:48:03.369 it's an amendment within this bill. And the act 00:48:03.369 --> 00:48:06.809 is really long, but the main meat of it is about 00:48:06.809 --> 00:48:09.829 halfway through the act that talks about a presidential 00:48:09.829 --> 00:48:13.989 panel or agency, which is nine person, and a 00:48:13.989 --> 00:48:17.090 controlled UAP disclosure plan that's six years 00:48:17.090 --> 00:48:21.360 in length, conceivably from 2024. to 2030. And 00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:23.460 this panel, and you can read this, this is public 00:48:23.460 --> 00:48:26.360 law, anybody can read this. They want a scientist, 00:48:26.460 --> 00:48:29.840 economist, you know, you know, sociologists, 00:48:29.900 --> 00:48:33.179 etc. It's kind of like who you would want to 00:48:33.179 --> 00:48:36.059 help craft the plan for the president. And this 00:48:36.059 --> 00:48:40.000 whole bill was actually built off the JFK Records 00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:41.659 Act, which I know like, they're like, well, they 00:48:41.659 --> 00:48:43.380 never released all the records. Well, we put 00:48:43.380 --> 00:48:45.199 some teeth in the bill, some eminent domains, 00:48:45.400 --> 00:48:48.780 some other stuff. you know, kind of force the 00:48:48.780 --> 00:48:50.860 issue. Now, granted, the chief executive, the 00:48:50.860 --> 00:48:53.619 president has the final say. The panel can't 00:48:53.619 --> 00:48:57.000 compel the executive to do it. But like, I hope 00:48:57.000 --> 00:49:01.420 the president does. And I support that. But so 00:49:01.420 --> 00:49:03.679 the Senate already passed it. They're chill with 00:49:03.679 --> 00:49:07.360 this. This is like, we're good to go. And and 00:49:07.360 --> 00:49:09.599 but there's pushback in the House right now that 00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:13.000 is, you know, part of my language, fucking ridiculous. 00:49:13.500 --> 00:49:16.780 So they're saying, for one, it's duplicating 00:49:17.369 --> 00:49:20.590 the DOD Arrows Office activities. They're doing 00:49:20.590 --> 00:49:22.670 good things. They're looking at UAP reports, 00:49:22.929 --> 00:49:24.650 trying to figure out what's balloons and air 00:49:24.650 --> 00:49:27.610 trash and what's weird stuff. And of course, 00:49:27.610 --> 00:49:30.650 they are doing an historical review to try to 00:49:30.650 --> 00:49:33.510 understand the U .S.'s history on this too. But 00:49:33.510 --> 00:49:37.150 the problem is with that agency, it's within 00:49:37.150 --> 00:49:40.730 the DOD and IC, not above. So you have an issue 00:49:40.730 --> 00:49:44.110 reaching into Department of Energy, other, you 00:49:44.110 --> 00:49:47.519 know, cabinet level agencies. You need a presidential 00:49:47.519 --> 00:49:51.639 level panel that can declassify stuff, reach 00:49:51.639 --> 00:49:54.940 into other agencies and tell certain secretaries, 00:49:54.940 --> 00:49:57.840 we're coming in, we want your stuff under presidential 00:49:57.840 --> 00:50:00.699 authority. So what's happening in the House, 00:50:00.780 --> 00:50:04.219 from what I'm told from people on the Hill that 00:50:04.219 --> 00:50:07.059 are working the issue right now, you have the 00:50:07.059 --> 00:50:09.739 chair of the House Intel Committee, Mike Turner, 00:50:09.900 --> 00:50:13.739 who's blocking this from Ohio, Dayton, Ohio area, 00:50:13.880 --> 00:50:18.070 right, Pat? Weird. Right Pat meaning Wright -Patterson 00:50:18.070 --> 00:50:21.670 Air Force. Yeah. And Mike Rogers, which I'm kind 00:50:21.670 --> 00:50:24.329 of surprised, from Alabama, who's the chair of 00:50:24.329 --> 00:50:26.929 the House Armed Services Committee. So I have 00:50:26.929 --> 00:50:30.130 a problem with Mike and Mike right now. So Mike 00:50:30.130 --> 00:50:33.630 Turner, now remember I went to his committee 00:50:33.630 --> 00:50:36.090 in December of last year. He wasn't there, but 00:50:36.090 --> 00:50:39.630 his staff and lawyers were. And, of course, he 00:50:39.630 --> 00:50:43.309 goes on Fox Business. after the hearing, doesn't 00:50:43.309 --> 00:50:45.050 use my names like this whistleblower. He has 00:50:45.050 --> 00:50:48.030 no idea what he's talking about. I'm like, really? 00:50:48.570 --> 00:50:51.269 Tell me, Mike. Have you ever been an intel officer 00:50:51.269 --> 00:50:53.690 or served in the military? Oh, wait, you've been 00:50:53.690 --> 00:50:57.130 the mayor of Dayton, Ohio. You were voted most 00:50:57.130 --> 00:51:00.409 corrupt person in Congress a couple years ago 00:51:00.409 --> 00:51:04.289 and pull up his PAC donors. Who are his biggest 00:51:04.289 --> 00:51:08.550 donors? Lockheed, Raytheon, Boeing. Okay, so. 00:51:09.519 --> 00:51:11.780 And first of all, if you thought you needed more 00:51:11.780 --> 00:51:13.619 information or wanted to talk to me personally, 00:51:13.820 --> 00:51:16.239 why didn't you call me back when I reported to 00:51:16.239 --> 00:51:20.059 your committee? So and furthermore, besides blocking 00:51:20.059 --> 00:51:22.679 the bill, I'm sure you're familiar with like 00:51:22.679 --> 00:51:26.400 Representative Tim Burchette of Alabama. And 00:51:26.400 --> 00:51:28.800 he's been very outspoken on the issue. We may 00:51:28.800 --> 00:51:30.840 not agree with everything Tim says about conventional 00:51:30.840 --> 00:51:34.119 stuff. That's, you know, here, no there. But, 00:51:34.159 --> 00:51:35.980 you know, he's been a champion on the oversight 00:51:35.980 --> 00:51:39.159 committee. you know, one of the members that 00:51:39.159 --> 00:51:42.440 I testified in public under oath regarding this. 00:51:42.559 --> 00:51:46.539 So like, and Mike Turner is looking to fund, 00:51:46.579 --> 00:51:49.320 according to staffers I've talked to last two 00:51:49.320 --> 00:51:53.019 weeks, an opposition candidate for Tim's reelection 00:51:53.019 --> 00:51:56.840 in 2024. So why is Mike Turner going out of his 00:51:56.840 --> 00:52:00.619 way to destroy the career of a courageous Tennessee 00:52:00.619 --> 00:52:04.260 representative on the oversight committee? And 00:52:04.260 --> 00:52:07.300 why are you blocking a bill? And it's not going 00:52:07.300 --> 00:52:09.840 to cost much, a couple million a year max, you 00:52:09.840 --> 00:52:11.460 know, for the panel, which is like vaporware 00:52:11.460 --> 00:52:15.320 and U .S. government speak, right? If there's 00:52:15.320 --> 00:52:17.500 nothing to see here, why are Mike Rogers and 00:52:17.500 --> 00:52:20.800 Mike Turner in the House blocking this bill that 00:52:20.800 --> 00:52:25.519 is, in my opinion, the most important legislation 00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:28.980 for transparency in American history? If there's 00:52:28.980 --> 00:52:32.300 nothing to see here, if I'm fucking crazy. Multi 00:52:32.300 --> 00:52:34.219 -star generals I talked to are crazy. The Intel 00:52:34.219 --> 00:52:36.639 docs that I read are incorrect. They're fucking 00:52:36.639 --> 00:52:38.940 forgeries or passage material or something like 00:52:38.940 --> 00:52:42.099 that. Good friends of mine that worked on the 00:52:42.099 --> 00:52:44.400 program are bullshitting me and some consorted 00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:47.639 operation against me and my colleagues that it 00:52:47.639 --> 00:52:50.980 would be totally crazy to even conduct that because 00:52:50.980 --> 00:52:54.360 I took precautions. Then why don't we just pass 00:52:54.360 --> 00:52:58.159 this and see what happens? And what do you think 00:52:58.159 --> 00:53:00.730 the answer to that is? And special interests 00:53:00.730 --> 00:53:02.570 want to keep the genie in the bottle, even though 00:53:02.570 --> 00:53:04.289 the toothpaste is coming out of the tube. And 00:53:04.289 --> 00:53:07.789 I think it's like a death rattle in this industrial 00:53:07.789 --> 00:53:10.489 complex that doesn't want change. And I'm not 00:53:10.489 --> 00:53:14.449 here to be like some total adversary. I think 00:53:14.449 --> 00:53:16.010 there needs to be a truth and reconciliation 00:53:16.010 --> 00:53:19.760 process on this issue. I'm not here to throw 00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:23.360 people in jail. I'm not here for big contractors 00:53:23.360 --> 00:53:26.239 involved to lose money. I think this would be 00:53:26.239 --> 00:53:29.159 a boon. And I think the leadership in these companies 00:53:29.159 --> 00:53:31.860 need to think about this, where if we're more 00:53:31.860 --> 00:53:35.619 open with this, you can hire people. You can 00:53:35.619 --> 00:53:38.239 push the subject into undergraduate, graduates 00:53:38.239 --> 00:53:42.780 and postdoctoral programs of research to study 00:53:42.780 --> 00:53:45.159 this in an unclassified, just like nuclear physics. 00:53:47.309 --> 00:53:52.909 This answers a fundamental question for humanity. 00:53:53.010 --> 00:53:55.750 Are we alone or what happens when we die? Well, 00:53:55.769 --> 00:53:57.989 I don't know about that, but are we alone? Well, 00:53:58.030 --> 00:54:00.510 the answer is we're not alone. And I know that 00:54:00.510 --> 00:54:03.610 with 100 percent certainty, which as an intel 00:54:03.610 --> 00:54:08.510 officer, you never say 100 percent. But all things 00:54:08.510 --> 00:54:12.239 pointed towards. based on the people I talk to, 00:54:12.340 --> 00:54:15.300 like Harry Reid, and I use him as an example, 00:54:15.400 --> 00:54:18.940 but I talk to the highest of the high people 00:54:18.940 --> 00:54:21.099 you could possibly talk to to catch my drift. 00:54:21.239 --> 00:54:25.219 So unless all them are lying and they're covering 00:54:25.219 --> 00:54:26.920 up something else, which I don't even know what 00:54:26.920 --> 00:54:28.840 it would be at this point, because the phenomenon 00:54:28.840 --> 00:54:32.559 is real. It's been going on for thousands of 00:54:32.559 --> 00:54:35.000 years. People have been seeing strange things 00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:38.050 and not everybody's mass hallucinating. So that's 00:54:38.050 --> 00:54:39.670 kind of my long diatribe about what's happening. 00:54:39.730 --> 00:54:42.989 What do they think these things are? The people 00:54:42.989 --> 00:54:46.630 that you talk to? So they specifically, the people 00:54:46.630 --> 00:54:49.650 on the program that handle the material, that 00:54:49.650 --> 00:54:53.269 were in executive level briefings with Intel 00:54:53.269 --> 00:54:55.630 community leaders and other folks over the years, 00:54:55.690 --> 00:54:58.889 last 20 years or so, they did use the term extraterrestrial, 00:54:58.989 --> 00:55:04.750 ET or whatever. Okay, that isn't a possible origin, 00:55:04.829 --> 00:55:07.210 but... The Schumer Amendment, if you read it, 00:55:07.230 --> 00:55:09.050 it specifically uses non -human intelligence, 00:55:09.409 --> 00:55:13.769 NHI, very deliberately because we want to catch 00:55:13.769 --> 00:55:16.070 everything. Because what if some of this stuff 00:55:16.070 --> 00:55:18.050 is not ET and they're going to use that as an 00:55:18.050 --> 00:55:20.329 escape clause? Like, well, this stuff that we 00:55:20.329 --> 00:55:22.030 don't even know if it's extraterrestrial, so 00:55:22.030 --> 00:55:24.369 this doesn't apply. So that's why we wanted to 00:55:24.369 --> 00:55:28.090 be as broad as possible. I mean, besides ET, 00:55:28.409 --> 00:55:32.070 I mean, a lot of it would be my own personal 00:55:32.070 --> 00:55:39.210 opinion. a couple conceivable buckets, and I'm 00:55:39.210 --> 00:55:44.409 using the work of Jacques Vallée. Other people 00:55:44.409 --> 00:55:46.469 that have thought deeply on the issue, on how 00:55:46.469 --> 00:55:49.630 the phenomenon has changed since antiquity, it 00:55:49.630 --> 00:55:53.329 showed itself in a different way. Like a good 00:55:53.329 --> 00:55:55.530 example is like witches sitting on your chest 00:55:55.530 --> 00:56:00.289 phenomenon with paralysis and medieval and enlightenment 00:56:00.289 --> 00:56:05.670 era became this alien abduction phenomenon in 00:56:05.670 --> 00:56:11.769 the modern era. And is it the... The recipient 00:56:11.769 --> 00:56:14.949 and their analytical overlay cognitively seeing 00:56:14.949 --> 00:56:17.530 the phenomenon based on a modern interpretation, 00:56:17.869 --> 00:56:21.269 you know, inside out. Or is the phenomenon, this 00:56:21.269 --> 00:56:24.469 is like Jacques Vallée's book, Passport to Magnolia, 00:56:24.550 --> 00:56:27.130 Magnolia, I can't pronounce it right, 1969, where 00:56:27.130 --> 00:56:31.230 he talks about the phenomenon seems to like masquerade 00:56:31.230 --> 00:56:34.650 itself as different stuff over the years. But, 00:56:34.710 --> 00:56:37.250 you know, we've seen roughly the same stuff. 00:56:37.309 --> 00:56:39.739 You look at the. Foo Fighters of World War II. 00:56:40.280 --> 00:56:43.039 There are declassified Air Force OSI reports 00:56:43.039 --> 00:56:46.199 from the 50s. People can Google the talk about 00:56:46.199 --> 00:56:49.420 flying butane tanks with the same measurements 00:56:49.420 --> 00:56:53.300 approximately what we saw in the 2004 Tic Tac 00:56:53.300 --> 00:56:55.739 incident, but they called it flying propane or 00:56:55.739 --> 00:57:01.539 butane tanks in the 50s. So from a morphology 00:57:01.539 --> 00:57:03.820 or in the Air Force intel, we call it vis recce, 00:57:03.840 --> 00:57:07.300 visual reconnaissance. basically look the same 00:57:07.300 --> 00:57:11.760 and we can back azimuth that you know decades 00:57:11.760 --> 00:57:14.320 if not hundreds of years in the past you know 00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:16.099 wheels of ezekiel right they're seeing these 00:57:16.099 --> 00:57:19.500 like disc type objects right and unless ezekiel 00:57:19.500 --> 00:57:22.679 is uh tripping or this is an allegory or fable 00:57:22.679 --> 00:57:24.940 in the in the bible you know let's say the event 00:57:24.940 --> 00:57:28.150 happens just like the In the Vedic text, you 00:57:28.150 --> 00:57:31.409 have the battles, the blue people in the battles 00:57:31.409 --> 00:57:34.110 in the sky that sound like nuclear and directed 00:57:34.110 --> 00:57:36.329 energy weapons. Like what's going on there? I 00:57:36.329 --> 00:57:38.710 mean, maybe that's a Graham Hancock or Randall 00:57:38.710 --> 00:57:42.090 Carlson type thing. They know more than I. So 00:57:42.090 --> 00:57:47.329 there is a real phenomenon that origin undetermined, 00:57:47.329 --> 00:57:50.809 but it's trippy. And sometimes it presents itself 00:57:50.809 --> 00:57:55.699 in like a non -corporeal form, too. Orbs, balls 00:57:55.699 --> 00:57:59.559 of energy, they don't appear as some kind of 00:57:59.559 --> 00:58:02.820 bipedal hominid like some people have espoused. 00:58:02.940 --> 00:58:08.000 So I think that might be, call it interdimensional, 00:58:08.300 --> 00:58:11.019 call it shadow biome, crypto terrestrial. I mean, 00:58:11.019 --> 00:58:13.280 there's a lot of different theories. What are 00:58:13.280 --> 00:58:15.099 the primary theories? The primary theories are 00:58:15.099 --> 00:58:18.639 from another planet or from another dimension. 00:58:18.980 --> 00:58:20.980 I think those are the primary. I mean, there's 00:58:20.980 --> 00:58:25.360 certainly... Origins that we probably can't conceptualize 00:58:25.360 --> 00:58:28.000 as humans because we're just – our meat is stuck 00:58:28.000 --> 00:58:31.159 in 3D and we don't understand and our IQs are 00:58:31.159 --> 00:58:33.360 only so high. So there might be some origins 00:58:33.360 --> 00:58:36.840 that we don't understand. In terms of like interdimensional 00:58:36.840 --> 00:58:40.460 travel. Yeah. I mean obviously if you talk to 00:58:40.460 --> 00:58:42.460 mainstream physicists, they say like crossing 00:58:42.460 --> 00:58:47.119 dimensions physically is kind of a trope of sci 00:58:47.119 --> 00:58:51.920 -fi. And that's why I used an example. And I 00:58:51.920 --> 00:58:53.780 know some physicists don't like me talking about 00:58:53.780 --> 00:58:55.860 this theory, but it is a theory, you know, like 00:58:55.860 --> 00:58:58.219 so the holographic principle, which was originally 00:58:58.219 --> 00:59:03.039 conceived to explain how information is encoded 00:59:03.039 --> 00:59:06.059 on an event horizon of a black hole, which is 00:59:06.059 --> 00:59:09.360 a distance away from the singularity of a black 00:59:09.360 --> 00:59:11.559 hole where if you cross it, you're fucked because 00:59:11.559 --> 00:59:13.019 you're going to get ripped to shreds or you're 00:59:13.019 --> 00:59:17.440 not coming back. And that principle talks about 00:59:17.440 --> 00:59:20.599 how. Information basically from higher dimensional 00:59:20.599 --> 00:59:24.400 space can be encoded in lower dimensional space. 00:59:24.579 --> 00:59:28.099 And the easiest example is like us casting a 00:59:28.099 --> 00:59:30.739 shadow on a sidewalk, right? Three -dimensional 00:59:30.739 --> 00:59:35.039 object, 2D shadow on a sidewalk. If you lived 00:59:35.039 --> 00:59:37.320 in two -dimensional space, flatland, you'd be 00:59:37.320 --> 00:59:40.900 tripped out. What the fuck am I seeing? But they 00:59:40.900 --> 00:59:42.900 just don't know that it's really just a person 00:59:42.900 --> 00:59:45.340 in higher dimensional space. So as some of the... 00:59:46.010 --> 00:59:47.909 I mean, obviously we have physical material that's 00:59:47.909 --> 00:59:49.429 in three -dimensional space that we've recovered, 00:59:49.590 --> 00:59:53.289 but at least maybe some of the phenomenon is 00:59:53.289 --> 00:59:56.010 really operating in higher spatial dimensions, 00:59:56.170 --> 00:59:59.269 but is either being projected or quasi -projected 00:59:59.269 --> 01:00:02.829 into our 3D plus time space, which is really 01:00:02.829 --> 01:00:04.969 trippy to think about, but we literally do it 01:00:04.969 --> 01:00:06.889 on a day -to -day basis like casting shadows. 01:00:07.550 --> 01:00:09.510 So, and that might be some of what we're seeing 01:00:09.510 --> 01:00:13.570 too, but I mean, I presume we know more. The 01:00:13.570 --> 01:00:17.809 people I talked to did not, They had full knowledge 01:00:17.809 --> 01:00:20.389 either. Like I said, the normal colloquialism 01:00:20.389 --> 01:00:23.630 was to say ET or extraterrestrial. Could you 01:00:23.630 --> 01:00:28.489 dumb down this concept of interdimensional? I 01:00:28.489 --> 01:00:33.969 know in physics they have theorized that there 01:00:33.969 --> 01:00:36.110 are multiple dimensions other than those that 01:00:36.110 --> 01:00:38.530 we can currently detect. Yeah, and a lot of that 01:00:38.530 --> 01:00:41.840 is based off of like Laroche. This is my bachelor's 01:00:41.840 --> 01:00:43.480 degree talking. I know there's going to be, like, 01:00:43.500 --> 01:00:45.280 some physicist who has a PhD who's like, oh, 01:00:45.300 --> 01:00:48.960 Dave, you fucked that up. But basically, you 01:00:48.960 --> 01:00:51.739 know, from high -energy particle collisions and 01:00:51.739 --> 01:00:54.079 based on the deflection angles and all this stuff, 01:00:54.119 --> 01:00:56.599 what happens when the particles collide, you 01:00:56.599 --> 01:01:01.000 know, confirms certain theoretical frameworks 01:01:01.000 --> 01:01:03.800 about extraspatial dimensions. And, you know, 01:01:03.840 --> 01:01:06.760 I can't speak with any real authority on, you 01:01:06.760 --> 01:01:11.880 know, precisely how that works. whether it be 01:01:11.880 --> 01:01:13.820 string theory or quantum mechanics are based 01:01:13.820 --> 01:01:18.500 off of higher spatial dimensions. And, you know, 01:01:18.500 --> 01:01:23.039 so that is a mainstream physics theoretical framework. 01:01:23.139 --> 01:01:25.599 That's not like wacky or loony or anything like 01:01:25.599 --> 01:01:30.719 that. So but that's basically a possibility. 01:01:30.800 --> 01:01:33.699 But like I said, like. We don't really have a 01:01:33.699 --> 01:01:36.800 good theory if you lived in, like, 5D space, 01:01:37.159 --> 01:01:40.019 for example. It's almost like, remember the ending 01:01:40.019 --> 01:01:42.059 of the movie Interstellar, right? Yes. Where 01:01:42.059 --> 01:01:45.280 he's pushing the books. He's, like, in a tesseract, 01:01:45.280 --> 01:01:47.239 you know, which is like a 4D to 5D structure. 01:01:47.619 --> 01:01:50.300 But he's trying to interact with 3D space. And, 01:01:50.320 --> 01:01:52.199 of course, he, like, leaves that space to come 01:01:52.199 --> 01:01:54.280 back to his daughter many years later at the 01:01:54.280 --> 01:01:59.280 ending of the movie. Great movie. But, so. That's 01:01:59.280 --> 01:02:01.400 a way to conceptualize it in something you may 01:02:01.400 --> 01:02:04.579 have watched in film. It's kind of like the ending 01:02:04.579 --> 01:02:06.739 of Interstellar. Oh, yeah. Yeah, there you go. 01:02:07.519 --> 01:02:13.019 Which is based on what? Like what theory? So 01:02:13.019 --> 01:02:16.239 the physicist Kip Thorne was the very famous 01:02:16.239 --> 01:02:18.980 guy. He was a big black hole and wormhole guy. 01:02:19.199 --> 01:02:22.000 I think it's Caltech. somewhere in California. 01:02:22.619 --> 01:02:24.960 Kip Thorne actually did all the physics equations 01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:28.460 and everything for Christopher Nolan to make 01:02:28.460 --> 01:02:32.219 sure that they were conceptualizing and visualizing 01:02:32.219 --> 01:02:35.400 black holes and wormholes and all that stuff 01:02:35.400 --> 01:02:38.539 correctly in the movie. We saw the halo around 01:02:38.539 --> 01:02:41.639 the black hole when they were coming in with 01:02:41.639 --> 01:02:43.579 the ship and everything. That's actually based 01:02:43.579 --> 01:02:46.340 off of real physics models that Kip Thorne did 01:02:46.340 --> 01:02:48.760 the calculations for, which is pretty cool, actually, 01:02:48.800 --> 01:02:50.519 that Christopher Nolan took it to that level. 01:02:51.099 --> 01:02:55.380 So this idea that these beings or whatever you 01:02:55.380 --> 01:02:58.280 want to call them exist in some other dimension. 01:02:58.940 --> 01:03:02.880 Do we have, I mean, I don't know what you can 01:03:02.880 --> 01:03:04.599 say about this. Do we have an understanding? 01:03:05.519 --> 01:03:09.300 Do we have any sort of communication with these 01:03:09.300 --> 01:03:12.519 beings that give us some sort of an understanding 01:03:12.519 --> 01:03:16.179 or a map of this? Yeah, the interaction stuff, 01:03:16.420 --> 01:03:21.530 that's a sensitive area. There were multiple 01:03:21.530 --> 01:03:23.849 very senior people that were concerned about 01:03:23.849 --> 01:03:26.349 talking about that kind of stuff with me. I mean, 01:03:26.349 --> 01:03:29.610 that is certainly, as nuts as it sounds, that 01:03:29.610 --> 01:03:31.809 was a real subject of conversation. Even it sounds 01:03:31.809 --> 01:03:34.030 like something out of like Star Trek First Contact. 01:03:34.210 --> 01:03:37.210 But it doesn't if you have vehicles. Yeah. So 01:03:37.210 --> 01:03:40.210 it's like once you realize the phenomenon's real, 01:03:40.409 --> 01:03:44.940 then you realize we've recovered artifacts. And, 01:03:44.940 --> 01:03:47.340 you know, biologics or, you know, dead pilots, 01:03:47.460 --> 01:03:50.219 if you will, even though it's kind of creepy 01:03:50.219 --> 01:03:54.300 to even think about that in your worldview, you 01:03:54.300 --> 01:03:57.500 don't think they were ever, you know, alive sometimes 01:03:57.500 --> 01:04:00.199 too, right? And I'll leave it at that only because, 01:04:00.300 --> 01:04:05.000 you know, that is something, you know, the president 01:04:05.000 --> 01:04:07.800 and his cabinet need to disclose this in a controlled 01:04:07.800 --> 01:04:09.820 manner going back to that amendment. You know, 01:04:09.860 --> 01:04:14.619 I'm not here to... You know, push the subject 01:04:14.619 --> 01:04:17.900 in an improper way. And that sounds like, why 01:04:17.900 --> 01:04:19.900 don't you just do it, Dave? Like, there's a lot 01:04:19.900 --> 01:04:24.519 of secondary and tertiary ramifications socioeconomically, 01:04:24.579 --> 01:04:28.059 theologically, our relationship geopolitically 01:04:28.059 --> 01:04:30.940 with our allies and adversaries. This is not 01:04:30.940 --> 01:04:35.500 rip off the Band -Aid. And it's simple. There's 01:04:35.500 --> 01:04:38.300 a lot of complex stuff behind the scenes that 01:04:38.300 --> 01:04:40.780 need to happen. And that's why I'm. I'm laying 01:04:40.780 --> 01:04:43.000 out all the general stuff that needs to be talked 01:04:43.000 --> 01:04:45.800 about during the disclosure process. But I should 01:04:45.800 --> 01:04:48.880 not be the one disclosing. And it would be highly 01:04:48.880 --> 01:04:52.119 inappropriate because I care about the health 01:04:52.119 --> 01:04:54.019 of the United States and its people and national 01:04:54.019 --> 01:04:57.059 security for me to do so. So I know there's people 01:04:57.059 --> 01:04:59.159 that are like, oh, why doesn't Dave say X, Y, 01:04:59.159 --> 01:05:01.739 and Z? It's like, this is serious. This is not 01:05:01.739 --> 01:05:05.119 like, ha -ha, let me tell you a good story. I'm 01:05:05.119 --> 01:05:07.559 a serious guy. I ruined my fucking career doing 01:05:07.559 --> 01:05:09.579 this. I was going to make lieutenant colonel 01:05:09.579 --> 01:05:12.599 in the Air Force this winter. I was on track 01:05:12.599 --> 01:05:15.039 to be, you know, a flag officer, equivalent civilian 01:05:15.039 --> 01:05:19.940 in my career. I spent 18 years in uniform, if 01:05:19.940 --> 01:05:23.139 you count the cadet time, right? My whole adult 01:05:23.139 --> 01:05:27.079 life was serving as an intel officer. But I wanted 01:05:27.079 --> 01:05:29.119 to see, and I'm 36, right, older millennial. 01:05:29.199 --> 01:05:33.139 I wanted to see change. So I'm throwing the flag 01:05:33.139 --> 01:05:36.760 out. And I'm here to hold the government accountable 01:05:36.760 --> 01:05:40.280 to do the right thing in a manner that is mature 01:05:40.280 --> 01:05:44.360 and thorough because I don't begin to say that 01:05:44.360 --> 01:05:47.539 I know everything, all the different ramifications 01:05:47.539 --> 01:05:50.599 of saying certain things publicly. I don't know 01:05:50.599 --> 01:05:52.739 all the answers to that. And that's why I have 01:05:52.739 --> 01:05:55.400 to be careful because I don't even know, I'll 01:05:55.400 --> 01:05:56.960 call it, you know, collateral damage effects 01:05:56.960 --> 01:05:59.900 to use kind of a military term, what may happen 01:05:59.900 --> 01:06:03.340 of certain things. In detail that are revealed 01:06:03.340 --> 01:06:05.840 that I might not know the ramifications thereof 01:06:05.840 --> 01:06:08.320 because there's something that I'm not privy 01:06:08.320 --> 01:06:10.820 to. So this is like a serious, this is not like 01:06:10.820 --> 01:06:13.980 a fun situation. This is like humanity changing, 01:06:14.199 --> 01:06:16.980 hopefully in a good way. But this is like, you 01:06:16.980 --> 01:06:21.820 know, quite serious. And I, you know, risked 01:06:21.820 --> 01:06:24.219 my personal and professional life and personal 01:06:24.219 --> 01:06:28.860 life because things have happened to me to be 01:06:28.860 --> 01:06:32.639 public like this. And, you know, I swore an oath, 01:06:32.739 --> 01:06:34.860 but, you know, myself and my generation, you 01:06:34.860 --> 01:06:36.619 know, want to see it change. Can you discuss 01:06:36.619 --> 01:06:37.960 the things that have happened to you personally? 01:06:38.280 --> 01:06:42.059 Yeah. So a lot of the stuff I have to be purposely 01:06:42.059 --> 01:06:44.599 vague because there's an open inspector general 01:06:44.599 --> 01:06:46.880 reprisal investigation on my behalf. And I'm 01:06:46.880 --> 01:06:49.280 not here to compromise the investigation by tipping 01:06:49.280 --> 01:06:52.719 off my antibodies that may be watching right 01:06:52.719 --> 01:06:56.699 now. But, you know, when I really started looking 01:06:56.699 --> 01:07:00.349 into this, I mean, they came after me. So hard 01:07:00.349 --> 01:07:04.449 to try to revoke my clearance, ruin my career, 01:07:04.789 --> 01:07:08.630 kicked me out of my agency. And they accused 01:07:08.630 --> 01:07:13.590 me of everything you could possibly think of 01:07:13.590 --> 01:07:18.610 with like no evidence. For example, at first 01:07:18.610 --> 01:07:21.750 they wanted to say, oh, Dave, you have mental 01:07:21.750 --> 01:07:24.150 health stuff you didn't report to us. We're concerned 01:07:24.150 --> 01:07:27.010 because we think you might have an ongoing mental 01:07:27.010 --> 01:07:28.920 health issue. I'm like, what are you? talking 01:07:28.920 --> 01:07:32.699 about. I reported that I had PTSD from Afghanistan 01:07:32.699 --> 01:07:36.280 in my military service several years ago. And 01:07:36.280 --> 01:07:38.039 I sought help for that. Like, I'm not ashamed 01:07:38.039 --> 01:07:39.780 of that. You know, I'm high functioning autistic. 01:07:40.039 --> 01:07:43.280 And I didn't know that until my early 30s. And 01:07:43.280 --> 01:07:47.519 how I process trauma, I didn't really understand 01:07:47.519 --> 01:07:50.739 until many years later. And, you know, I sought 01:07:50.739 --> 01:07:53.340 help for that. And they were trying to say that, 01:07:53.360 --> 01:07:56.480 like, I had some secret mental health problem 01:07:56.480 --> 01:07:59.650 that I haven't been reporting to so i had to 01:07:59.650 --> 01:08:02.610 go through this whole process three agencies 01:08:02.610 --> 01:08:06.010 at the same time investigated me for that which 01:08:06.010 --> 01:08:08.969 i don't even know if that's like legal they tried 01:08:08.969 --> 01:08:11.170 to say that i like mishandled classified all 01:08:11.170 --> 01:08:15.090 this other stuff it was insane apparently i was 01:08:15.090 --> 01:08:17.189 under criminal investigation for a couple months 01:08:17.189 --> 01:08:19.329 and i didn't even know that and nor did they 01:08:19.329 --> 01:08:23.090 interview me but they made a uh finding with 01:08:23.090 --> 01:08:24.989 no evidence they tried to use against me that 01:08:24.989 --> 01:08:28.060 i had to spend money to basically litigate and 01:08:28.060 --> 01:08:30.100 maintain my employment and my clearance, which 01:08:30.100 --> 01:08:32.859 I did for the record. I maintained my clearance. 01:08:33.119 --> 01:08:36.800 I resigned with full accesses. You know, I'm 01:08:36.800 --> 01:08:39.640 just debriefed now, but I maintained my top secret 01:08:39.640 --> 01:08:43.439 eligibility and I left with my own accord. And 01:08:43.439 --> 01:08:48.510 so, and of course. They ruined one of my boss's 01:08:48.510 --> 01:08:51.430 careers in another agency. They walked him out 01:08:51.430 --> 01:08:53.569 of the building and revoked his clearance and 01:08:53.569 --> 01:08:55.630 terminated him as a show of force after they 01:08:55.630 --> 01:08:59.489 were going after me. And I feel sorry for that 01:08:59.489 --> 01:09:02.569 certain individual. And they came after coworkers 01:09:02.569 --> 01:09:04.869 of mine. I can't get into who, what, when, where, 01:09:04.869 --> 01:09:06.909 and why to protect their identities and their 01:09:06.909 --> 01:09:10.430 own process. So that's what happened to me professionally. 01:09:13.369 --> 01:09:17.329 What happened to me personally was very disturbing. 01:09:19.109 --> 01:09:21.569 So I have to be very vague about this because 01:09:21.569 --> 01:09:25.170 ongoing investigation, but I think you'll understand 01:09:25.170 --> 01:09:30.729 what I'm saying, is they showed my wife and I 01:09:30.729 --> 01:09:34.729 they can touch me at any time, two times. And 01:09:34.729 --> 01:09:37.250 it was very disturbing. It was in conjunction 01:09:37.250 --> 01:09:39.010 with some other people getting a message like 01:09:39.010 --> 01:09:41.670 that that are, let's say, publicly well -known. 01:09:42.029 --> 01:09:45.890 Some that aren't publicly well known. And of 01:09:45.890 --> 01:09:47.609 course, I immediately reported that to, you know, 01:09:47.609 --> 01:09:49.949 counterintelligence, federal law enforcement 01:09:49.949 --> 01:09:53.130 local to me because it wasn't criminal, but it 01:09:53.130 --> 01:09:57.350 was like a fuck you to me. And this was right 01:09:57.350 --> 01:10:00.449 before I filed my whistleblower complaint. Now, 01:10:00.449 --> 01:10:03.609 I don't know who did this. You know, an entity 01:10:03.609 --> 01:10:07.149 who did X, Y and Z to my wife and I. Identity 01:10:07.149 --> 01:10:09.670 unknown, but it fucking happens. And I provided 01:10:09.670 --> 01:10:13.010 that documentation to. a couple of special agents. 01:10:14.029 --> 01:10:17.890 And I just knew that it was getting serious. 01:10:19.149 --> 01:10:24.109 And, you know, as well, first of all, I'm the 01:10:24.109 --> 01:10:26.189 kind of person I'm, I'm from Pittsburgh, you 01:10:26.189 --> 01:10:28.310 know, like steel town, I'll take shit from people. 01:10:28.829 --> 01:10:32.130 And I decided, fuck it. I'm going to file an 01:10:32.130 --> 01:10:33.750 inspector general complaint to protect myself. 01:10:33.970 --> 01:10:37.149 I don't, I'm in fear for my safety. You know, 01:10:37.170 --> 01:10:39.329 my wife's an air force veteran too. And, you 01:10:39.329 --> 01:10:42.300 know, Very strong individual. But, you know, 01:10:42.300 --> 01:10:44.960 as a man, you don't want to put your family at 01:10:44.960 --> 01:10:48.539 risk. And, you know, did certain other measures, 01:10:48.600 --> 01:10:50.220 which I won't talk about, to protect myself, 01:10:50.460 --> 01:10:54.960 you know, physically. And I could not believe 01:10:54.960 --> 01:10:58.439 that that was happening to me. No kidding. And 01:10:58.439 --> 01:11:03.220 I knew I needed to do something internally. And 01:11:03.220 --> 01:11:06.590 then when I saw the writing on the wall. Earlier 01:11:06.590 --> 01:11:08.229 this year, and of course, I knew about the Schumer 01:11:08.229 --> 01:11:09.989 Amendment, like I mentioned earlier, and I knew 01:11:09.989 --> 01:11:11.930 I'm like, you know, I got to do this for my own 01:11:11.930 --> 01:11:14.489 protection because me leaving the federal service 01:11:14.489 --> 01:11:16.770 because I resigned my Air Force commission. I 01:11:16.770 --> 01:11:21.210 totally threw that career away to do what I thought 01:11:21.210 --> 01:11:24.510 was the right and patriotic thing to whistleblow 01:11:24.510 --> 01:11:27.930 on this, you know, and I, you know, swore my 01:11:27.930 --> 01:11:30.529 oath 18 years ago. And that sounds hokey, but 01:11:30.529 --> 01:11:33.670 I believe. You know, integrity first, service 01:11:33.670 --> 01:11:35.390 before self, and excellence all we do. That's 01:11:35.390 --> 01:11:38.590 the Air Force motto. And I'm like, this is not 01:11:38.590 --> 01:11:42.130 going to help me personally. Like, love talking 01:11:42.130 --> 01:11:46.270 to you. I like spreading this message because 01:11:46.270 --> 01:11:47.890 it's the right and ethical thing to do. But this 01:11:47.890 --> 01:11:49.970 is a nightmare for me. I don't want to be public. 01:11:50.649 --> 01:11:52.869 I've served the country in clandestine and covert 01:11:52.869 --> 01:11:55.770 operations for 14 years. I've done technical 01:11:55.770 --> 01:11:58.250 intelligence for some of the most high -profile 01:11:58.250 --> 01:12:00.590 takedowns in U .S. history. I shouldn't even 01:12:00.590 --> 01:12:04.640 be here. But I am because I want to see change. 01:12:05.119 --> 01:12:08.180 I saw something unethical and unmoral. I want 01:12:08.180 --> 01:12:09.880 to make sure I hold that element of the government 01:12:09.880 --> 01:12:13.859 accountable. And it was the right fucking thing 01:12:13.859 --> 01:12:16.579 to do. And I get kind of emotional about that 01:12:16.579 --> 01:12:19.619 because, you know, my career has been service 01:12:19.619 --> 01:12:23.020 and sacrifice. And, you know, I had two friends 01:12:23.020 --> 01:12:26.079 of mine die. And I've talked about this publicly 01:12:26.079 --> 01:12:29.600 before. And I, you know, I'm segueing a little 01:12:29.600 --> 01:12:32.710 bit, but. The suffering of the American intelligence 01:12:32.710 --> 01:12:36.430 officer is something that, for the service of 01:12:36.430 --> 01:12:37.970 their country, and we're not talking about this 01:12:37.970 --> 01:12:40.949 subject, obviously, people don't realize the 01:12:40.949 --> 01:12:44.930 kind of trauma intel professionals go through. 01:12:45.310 --> 01:12:48.250 So, first of all, I had a friend six months after 01:12:48.250 --> 01:12:50.369 I got back from Afghanistan. His name is Captain 01:12:50.369 --> 01:12:52.829 Dave Lyon. There's a park in Peterson Space Force 01:12:52.829 --> 01:12:57.550 Base named after him. I remember seeing his coffin 01:12:57.550 --> 01:13:02.279 come off the plane. You know, I saw him die that 01:13:02.279 --> 01:13:04.300 that fucked me up for a number of years. And 01:13:04.300 --> 01:13:06.239 that's what, you know, gave me a lot of my my 01:13:06.239 --> 01:13:08.319 problems I ended up dealing with. But then I 01:13:08.319 --> 01:13:13.720 had I remarried and then my best man, Captain 01:13:13.720 --> 01:13:16.819 Ben Hiney, Air Force intelligence officer, Air 01:13:16.819 --> 01:13:18.560 Force Special Operations Command. I've known 01:13:18.560 --> 01:13:21.399 him for years. He's my closest friend, you know, 01:13:21.399 --> 01:13:24.000 best man at my wedding. And then 28 days later. 01:13:26.300 --> 01:13:28.039 Unfortunately, he suffered from depression and 01:13:28.039 --> 01:13:29.960 it was, you know, as his best friend, he didn't 01:13:29.960 --> 01:13:32.399 even confide in me. You know, I remember chit 01:13:32.399 --> 01:13:34.500 -chatting him, chit -chatting with him on the 01:13:34.500 --> 01:13:37.880 phone one day, about 28 days after he was my 01:13:37.880 --> 01:13:40.560 best man. And he didn't tell me anything was 01:13:40.560 --> 01:13:43.060 wrong with him. And a few hours later, he walked 01:13:43.060 --> 01:13:46.500 in his backyard and shot himself. And, you know, 01:13:46.539 --> 01:13:54.310 I gave his eulogy at his funeral. you know, really 01:13:54.310 --> 01:13:57.449 affected me. And, and, and with what Ben experienced, 01:13:57.729 --> 01:14:00.449 which I can't get into all of the stuff he did, 01:14:00.510 --> 01:14:04.409 obviously, but imagine being the guy that decides 01:14:04.409 --> 01:14:08.810 that that person is bad. Fire the hell fire. 01:14:10.029 --> 01:14:12.609 That person is now pink mist that they're dead. 01:14:12.750 --> 01:14:16.579 You just played God. Let's go back to. You know, 01:14:16.600 --> 01:14:18.779 the wife and kids at the end of your shift. And 01:14:18.779 --> 01:14:20.579 a lot of that, you know, I did the same kind 01:14:20.579 --> 01:14:24.100 of thing. I did a lot of stuff overseas, involved 01:14:24.100 --> 01:14:28.779 interrogations and, you know, ops that you had 01:14:28.779 --> 01:14:32.119 to decide if a target is bad enough where you're 01:14:32.119 --> 01:14:33.619 going to affect their life forever and their 01:14:33.619 --> 01:14:37.819 family's life forever. And that's the silent 01:14:37.819 --> 01:14:39.640 suffering of Intel professionals, especially 01:14:39.640 --> 01:14:41.439 during the global war on terror, which was, you 01:14:41.439 --> 01:14:47.890 know, 21 years or so. The trauma and the mental 01:14:47.890 --> 01:14:51.390 health problems that people get from being an 01:14:51.390 --> 01:14:53.029 intel professional in an operational environment. 01:14:53.210 --> 01:14:55.569 People think like special operators, pilots, 01:14:55.909 --> 01:14:59.369 et cetera, you know, Army, Marines, ground pounders. 01:14:59.409 --> 01:15:02.390 And they certainly have their own trauma, but 01:15:02.390 --> 01:15:05.890 it's this weird insidious, am I in a video game? 01:15:05.970 --> 01:15:09.409 Is this real trauma that intelligence professionals? 01:15:09.789 --> 01:15:11.130 And I just wanted to highlight that during the 01:15:11.130 --> 01:15:13.630 show because that was just a near and dear to 01:15:13.630 --> 01:15:18.329 myself. So people are aware of the service of 01:15:18.329 --> 01:15:21.149 military intelligence and civilian intelligence 01:15:21.149 --> 01:15:24.670 professionals that have to make really tough 01:15:24.670 --> 01:15:27.210 decisions for the country that affect people's 01:15:27.210 --> 01:15:30.930 lives on the receiving end. Was there a concern 01:15:30.930 --> 01:15:33.829 while you're going through all this that if you 01:15:33.829 --> 01:15:36.390 didn't come out with this, that we would be stuck 01:15:36.390 --> 01:15:41.479 in the same sort of loop? for a long long period 01:15:41.479 --> 01:15:43.659 of time and no one would ever have access to 01:15:43.659 --> 01:15:46.260 this stuff that they would continue yep yeah 01:15:46.260 --> 01:15:49.399 and that you nailed it on the head is you know 01:15:49.399 --> 01:15:51.939 i think my generation wants to change the under 01:15:51.939 --> 01:15:54.779 40 generation their parents went to war their 01:15:54.779 --> 01:15:56.880 older brothers went to war we're fighting two 01:15:56.880 --> 01:15:59.600 dangerous proxy wars right now which is extremely 01:15:59.600 --> 01:16:04.939 um stupid i mean a better way of saying it be 01:16:04.939 --> 01:16:06.640 quite frank and i give you my own assessment 01:16:06.640 --> 01:16:10.060 on that if you want but i Like we're in this 01:16:10.060 --> 01:16:13.140 loop. We're not progressing in a healthy way 01:16:13.140 --> 01:16:17.060 as a civilization. You know, it's becoming more 01:16:17.060 --> 01:16:18.899 divisive, whether you're on the left or the right. 01:16:19.560 --> 01:16:21.420 You know, people aren't even looking up. All 01:16:21.420 --> 01:16:23.920 they care about is TikTok. You know, we're creating 01:16:23.920 --> 01:16:26.920 potentially dangerous artificial intelligence. 01:16:27.020 --> 01:16:29.619 You know, I even saw that in my government service. 01:16:30.760 --> 01:16:34.119 And I think humanity is kind of stuck right now 01:16:34.119 --> 01:16:36.239 and we need to change. And this subject is like 01:16:36.239 --> 01:16:41.619 one of the only. unifying, ontologically shocking, 01:16:41.779 --> 01:16:44.579 but I would think generally unifying topics where 01:16:44.579 --> 01:16:50.399 if announced by the U .S. and other major powers 01:16:50.399 --> 01:16:53.220 that have knowledge in a controlled manner, that 01:16:53.220 --> 01:16:55.779 this could change humanity for the better, make 01:16:55.779 --> 01:16:59.020 us look inside ourselves, become less divisive, 01:16:59.020 --> 01:17:02.399 and care maybe a little less about superficial 01:17:02.399 --> 01:17:07.279 things. So that's kind of my philosophical motivation 01:17:07.279 --> 01:17:11.979 to do what I did. And you're confronted with 01:17:11.979 --> 01:17:14.819 one of the biggest mysteries in human history. 01:17:15.000 --> 01:17:18.579 Yeah. Which is, are we alone? And it seems like 01:17:18.579 --> 01:17:21.199 at least some people have the answer to that. 01:17:21.899 --> 01:17:24.119 100%. I mean, the people I talked to certainly 01:17:24.119 --> 01:17:27.359 did. And they had close personal knowledge. And 01:17:27.359 --> 01:17:29.899 the intel reports I read, you know, literally. 01:17:30.970 --> 01:17:32.850 indicated that as well like i talked about earlier 01:17:32.850 --> 01:17:36.630 uh and it just so it's like this caste system 01:17:36.630 --> 01:17:40.229 i call dudes with sci clearances do not have 01:17:40.229 --> 01:17:44.770 an embargo on reality so it's a caste system 01:17:44.770 --> 01:17:47.029 of you know people in government and outside 01:17:47.029 --> 01:17:49.590 of government in the industrial complex that 01:17:49.590 --> 01:17:53.409 run this stuff under little oversight and you 01:17:53.409 --> 01:17:54.689 know i remember some of the people who denied 01:17:54.689 --> 01:17:57.130 us access they were like you know you know i 01:17:57.130 --> 01:17:58.590 don't know what you're talking about but if i 01:17:58.590 --> 01:18:01.739 did Why would you have a need to know? And I'm 01:18:01.739 --> 01:18:03.140 like, well, why did you have a need to know? 01:18:03.800 --> 01:18:08.279 You're just some multi -star general. You're 01:18:08.279 --> 01:18:10.039 a human being. You're a human being. You're not 01:18:10.039 --> 01:18:13.199 better than me. I mean, who determines need to 01:18:13.199 --> 01:18:19.220 know on a humanistic question? It's like basic 01:18:19.220 --> 01:18:22.239 fact of life. Why are we classifying fact of 01:18:22.239 --> 01:18:25.800 life at this day and age in 2023? It's insane. 01:18:26.119 --> 01:18:30.250 And the answer to that would be. National security. 01:18:30.869 --> 01:18:33.470 Yeah, it's obtuse national security, right? So, 01:18:33.489 --> 01:18:36.750 like, why we classify stuff. It's called Executive 01:18:36.750 --> 01:18:42.470 Order 13 -526, right? Section 1 .4, Sections 01:18:42.470 --> 01:18:45.649 E and F are why we classify science stuff, why 01:18:45.649 --> 01:18:47.829 we classify nuclear stuff. It's like a one -liner. 01:18:47.930 --> 01:18:53.310 It's very vague. And are you saying these basic 01:18:53.310 --> 01:18:56.369 facts should be classified? Are you saying that 01:18:56.369 --> 01:18:59.479 this fits in this bill? And, you know, and you 01:18:59.479 --> 01:19:01.319 notice the Schumer Amendment, if anybody reads 01:19:01.319 --> 01:19:04.739 it, awkwardly calls out the Atomic Energy Act 01:19:04.739 --> 01:19:09.199 in 1954. Right. And they're basically treating 01:19:09.199 --> 01:19:13.659 this as nuclear secrets because it gives off 01:19:13.659 --> 01:19:17.920 nuclear radiation. Because if you look at the 01:19:17.920 --> 01:19:22.739 ultra vague definition of special nuclear material, 01:19:22.760 --> 01:19:25.609 which is Section 51. The Atomic Energy Act of 01:19:25.609 --> 01:19:28.949 1954. It says anything that gives off a sizable 01:19:28.949 --> 01:19:31.270 amount of atomic energy. Literally, that's what 01:19:31.270 --> 01:19:35.750 it says. Well, what's sizable and what legal 01:19:35.750 --> 01:19:38.630 gymnastics are you saying? This stuff, which 01:19:38.630 --> 01:19:41.329 is obviously not a, well, who knows? Maybe it 01:19:41.329 --> 01:19:44.170 is a nuclear weapon. And you're saying this is 01:19:44.170 --> 01:19:46.529 a U .S. nuclear secret. You're transclassifying 01:19:46.529 --> 01:19:51.289 it into a nuclear secret, which I understand. 01:19:52.330 --> 01:19:54.850 maybe at first why they did that. And I'm not 01:19:54.850 --> 01:19:56.890 admonishing the hard decisions that presidents 01:19:56.890 --> 01:20:00.789 and other folks did many years ago when this 01:20:00.789 --> 01:20:02.970 was more of an enigma and we wanted to lock it 01:20:02.970 --> 01:20:05.289 down, figure it out, and then see what we're 01:20:05.289 --> 01:20:07.890 going to do. But there's never been a disclosure 01:20:07.890 --> 01:20:10.829 plan. I always ask that to these super senior 01:20:10.829 --> 01:20:13.869 people I talk to. Was there a plan? Any kind 01:20:13.869 --> 01:20:16.699 of plan at all? And they're like, no, never. 01:20:17.140 --> 01:20:20.239 We tried to muddy the waters back in there, you 01:20:20.239 --> 01:20:23.300 know, tried to put it out there and test the 01:20:23.300 --> 01:20:27.140 populace. But, you know, there was never any 01:20:27.140 --> 01:20:29.460 cogent plan. I mean, people think the government 01:20:29.460 --> 01:20:32.319 is like this fine oiled machine. They have plans 01:20:32.319 --> 01:20:34.779 for everything. Well, I guess sort of. But like, 01:20:34.840 --> 01:20:37.720 it's not. I mean, look at the war on terrorism. 01:20:37.760 --> 01:20:41.720 We left Afghanistan. No general officer, Mattis 01:20:41.720 --> 01:20:44.319 Petraeus. McChrystal, I call them the failed 01:20:44.319 --> 01:20:47.939 generals. People, loud them, but really themselves 01:20:47.939 --> 01:20:50.300 in the Obama administration, Bush administration, 01:20:50.520 --> 01:20:54.140 except Trump, whatever, nobody had a cogent plan 01:20:54.140 --> 01:20:58.239 for success. And we were fighting people who 01:20:58.239 --> 01:21:01.640 were much less of an adversary than one of our 01:21:01.640 --> 01:21:03.460 peers or near peers. We couldn't even win that 01:21:03.460 --> 01:21:06.619 war. Like, what the fuck are we doing? But these 01:21:06.619 --> 01:21:10.000 protracted endless wars, let's be real, it's 01:21:10.000 --> 01:21:13.229 good for the industrial complex. So and I'm not 01:21:13.229 --> 01:21:15.010 like admonishing the whole industrial complex 01:21:15.010 --> 01:21:18.489 for the record. You know, we need national lethality. 01:21:18.649 --> 01:21:21.029 We need weapons to kill bad guys because there's 01:21:21.029 --> 01:21:24.350 evil people in the world. But you've got to control, 01:21:24.590 --> 01:21:27.529 you know, some of it. Well, that's a part of 01:21:27.529 --> 01:21:30.770 the problem with people that have secrets. It's 01:21:30.770 --> 01:21:33.510 like once you have secrets and a part of your 01:21:33.510 --> 01:21:36.449 identity is the holder of those secrets and part 01:21:36.449 --> 01:21:42.369 of the culture of these industries. is that they 01:21:42.369 --> 01:21:45.050 are the ones that have the access to that. Yeah, 01:21:45.130 --> 01:21:49.210 and I saw that in conventional, really black 01:21:49.210 --> 01:21:51.630 programs I was a part of in my career. It was 01:21:51.630 --> 01:21:55.229 almost like you got that secret society vibe 01:21:55.229 --> 01:21:57.829 where it's like if you're a career government 01:21:57.829 --> 01:22:02.149 servant, your salary is not that great, but knowledge 01:22:02.149 --> 01:22:05.210 is your currency. And what makes you special? 01:22:05.329 --> 01:22:08.050 What rice bowl do you control? And I remember 01:22:08.050 --> 01:22:09.689 getting read into some stuff that like it was 01:22:09.689 --> 01:22:12.310 like the president and very limited number of 01:22:12.310 --> 01:22:13.949 people getting read into. And I was one of them 01:22:13.949 --> 01:22:16.329 because I was operating a certain thing for a 01:22:16.329 --> 01:22:20.069 certain op. And, oh, you're part of the club. 01:22:20.289 --> 01:22:23.149 You know, like only 30 people are cleared or 01:22:23.149 --> 01:22:26.789 whatever. And I'm like, I don't get off on this. 01:22:27.350 --> 01:22:30.390 It's so weird. But like he's like lifers. And 01:22:30.390 --> 01:22:33.670 I hate to, you know. talk so matter of fact about 01:22:33.670 --> 01:22:35.949 it, but like, it just, it's kind of disgusting 01:22:35.949 --> 01:22:38.369 to me because it's like this, like, uh, it's 01:22:38.369 --> 01:22:41.109 weird. It's just like a weird, like Gnostic cultish 01:22:41.109 --> 01:22:43.829 thing. And, you know, I lived that community 01:22:43.829 --> 01:22:46.409 for 14 years of my career. And people really 01:22:46.409 --> 01:22:48.590 do enjoy having information that other people 01:22:48.590 --> 01:22:50.609 don't have access to. I was like, I got a secret. 01:22:50.670 --> 01:22:53.869 And like, that's why I whistleblowed. Okay. So 01:22:53.869 --> 01:22:55.829 I know this shit's real. I know there, we're 01:22:55.829 --> 01:22:59.829 not alone. We have stuff, no shit. Am I going 01:22:59.829 --> 01:23:03.010 to sit on my ass for 30, 40 years? I'm an old 01:23:03.010 --> 01:23:05.270 man. I look back like, ah, I had that secret. 01:23:05.369 --> 01:23:07.810 I knew about it, but I didn't do anything. I 01:23:07.810 --> 01:23:12.449 didn't change. So I couldn't just keep that secret 01:23:12.449 --> 01:23:15.569 because I thought it was just perverse and wrong 01:23:15.569 --> 01:23:18.510 that the people don't even at least get to know 01:23:18.510 --> 01:23:21.829 the basics. It's insane. So when it comes to 01:23:21.829 --> 01:23:24.369 these, I'm going to bring it back to these actual 01:23:24.369 --> 01:23:28.079 entities. Yeah. Do we know? Or would you have 01:23:28.079 --> 01:23:30.520 an understanding of how many of them we're talking 01:23:30.520 --> 01:23:34.100 about and the variety of them? Yeah, there is 01:23:34.100 --> 01:23:37.899 a variety, and we have a certain number of different 01:23:37.899 --> 01:23:42.699 things. But the, like, total numbers of, like, 01:23:42.779 --> 01:23:44.520 what's interacting with us on Earth, I mean, 01:23:44.539 --> 01:23:47.119 nobody knows that. But there's an understanding 01:23:47.119 --> 01:23:49.600 of some that they do believe are interacting 01:23:49.600 --> 01:23:51.899 with us, and there's a variety in terms of there's 01:23:51.899 --> 01:23:54.579 variables. Yeah, I talked to people who are familiar 01:23:54.579 --> 01:23:57.350 with. the biological analysis and everything. 01:23:57.550 --> 01:24:01.090 So we have some idea, not a complete picture 01:24:01.090 --> 01:24:04.909 because it's like, you know, you know, you're 01:24:04.909 --> 01:24:05.989 looking at it. It's like, well, I don't even 01:24:05.989 --> 01:24:09.170 understand the physio physiology at all. It's 01:24:09.170 --> 01:24:10.270 like, what the heck? It's like way different. 01:24:10.430 --> 01:24:13.670 Right. So we have at least a description of this 01:24:13.670 --> 01:24:16.989 physiology. Yeah, no, I was in, I was in the 01:24:16.989 --> 01:24:27.770 room when I was in Washington, D .C. with a very 01:24:27.770 --> 01:24:31.489 number of senior people that work for members 01:24:31.489 --> 01:24:35.649 of Congress, put it that way, when I was still 01:24:35.649 --> 01:24:39.270 in government. And I brought the people who worked 01:24:39.270 --> 01:24:42.170 on that stuff to the Hill. I mean, this is why 01:24:42.170 --> 01:24:45.590 the members were so confident to put out the 01:24:45.590 --> 01:24:48.170 Schumer Amendment and stuff. And I was like, 01:24:48.250 --> 01:24:52.659 please explain. Um, they went into all those 01:24:52.659 --> 01:24:54.800 details and stuff. And I remember, you know, 01:24:54.819 --> 01:24:58.579 uh, some, some of the professional staff members 01:24:58.579 --> 01:25:00.960 were like, Whoa, like, like they were like in 01:25:00.960 --> 01:25:02.939 G lock. Right. Cause I mean, it like a total 01:25:02.939 --> 01:25:07.699 world bubble, um, got burst right there for a 01:25:07.699 --> 01:25:10.760 lot of people. And so we, we have some idea. 01:25:10.859 --> 01:25:12.720 It's not a complete picture. I mean, it's just 01:25:12.720 --> 01:25:14.640 like, but you're not even bringing in the right, 01:25:14.659 --> 01:25:17.439 the right people. Like I think about my friend 01:25:17.439 --> 01:25:20.220 and colleague, uh, Dr. Gary Nolan, which I started 01:25:20.220 --> 01:25:24.050 the, um, sole foundation nonprofit with, I mean, 01:25:24.050 --> 01:25:28.390 he's like, you know, Nobel level biologist, virologist, 01:25:28.390 --> 01:25:31.050 like he's the guy that you would want on it, 01:25:31.069 --> 01:25:34.170 but he's not on it. So I think we can make a 01:25:34.170 --> 01:25:36.069 lot of progress in our understanding. Once again, 01:25:36.149 --> 01:25:41.310 if, if this is more broadly studied, um, in an 01:25:41.310 --> 01:25:44.229 open environment, you're aware of the Nixon, 01:25:44.310 --> 01:25:49.010 Jackie Gleason story vaguely. Uh, I, I stayed 01:25:49.010 --> 01:25:51.529 away from ufology because I had these contemporary 01:25:51.529 --> 01:25:54.569 people that were inside. I could check all their 01:25:54.569 --> 01:25:58.909 credentials, where they worked, et cetera. But 01:25:58.909 --> 01:26:01.350 I'm vaguely familiar where, what was it, like 01:26:01.350 --> 01:26:04.109 Nixon brought Jackie Gleason to some facility 01:26:04.109 --> 01:26:06.289 and showed him some stuff or something like that? 01:26:06.369 --> 01:26:08.210 Yeah, supposedly that's the story. And it's very 01:26:08.210 --> 01:26:11.109 hard to determine the origin of the story or 01:26:11.109 --> 01:26:13.069 whether or not it's real. It came from, there's 01:26:13.069 --> 01:26:15.489 a story about one article that was supposedly 01:26:15.489 --> 01:26:20.039 public. Was it Vanity Fair? and you can't find 01:26:20.039 --> 01:26:24.220 the story. But Jackie Gleason, by all accounts, 01:26:24.399 --> 01:26:28.960 was obsessed with UFOs and even built a home 01:26:28.960 --> 01:26:31.359 in upstate New York that looked like a flying 01:26:31.359 --> 01:26:34.180 saucer. Oh, really? Yeah. That's cool. This is 01:26:34.180 --> 01:26:37.380 the house. He had this house constructed supposedly 01:26:37.380 --> 01:26:42.840 after he had this meeting with Nixon. So Nixon, 01:26:43.000 --> 01:26:46.130 supposedly they were drinking. Jackie Gleason 01:26:46.130 --> 01:26:49.010 and Nick Nixon are tying one on, and Nixon's 01:26:49.010 --> 01:26:52.170 like, you want to see some shit? And they fly 01:26:52.170 --> 01:26:56.750 to wherever this base is, and he shows them these 01:26:56.750 --> 01:27:00.569 frozen biological entities and this retrieved 01:27:00.569 --> 01:27:04.670 vehicle. And then Jackie Gleason becomes a fanatic, 01:27:04.729 --> 01:27:07.989 obviously. That's crazy. Yeah. I mean, not crazy, 01:27:08.050 --> 01:27:10.470 but that's interesting that a president would 01:27:10.470 --> 01:27:14.079 do that to... Like an uncleared celebrity friend 01:27:14.079 --> 01:27:15.779 of his. Like, oh, let me just show you the most 01:27:15.779 --> 01:27:17.800 sensitive shit our country has. I don't know. 01:27:17.859 --> 01:27:20.260 It's kind of crazy to me. People are obsessed 01:27:20.260 --> 01:27:22.960 with celebrity. You know, there's even world 01:27:22.960 --> 01:27:26.420 leaders, you know, kings and queens of, you know, 01:27:26.439 --> 01:27:28.439 they've always been obsessed with famous people. 01:27:28.840 --> 01:27:30.840 And Jackie Gleason at the time was incredibly 01:27:30.840 --> 01:27:34.279 famous and also beloved. Right. Yeah. So this 01:27:34.279 --> 01:27:39.350 is my pal and I'm drunk. You want to see some 01:27:39.350 --> 01:27:41.689 shit? You know, I get it. I want to hang out 01:27:41.689 --> 01:27:43.729 with Nixon if that's how he was like, man. The 01:27:43.729 --> 01:27:46.390 70s is probably wild. I bet he was like that 01:27:46.390 --> 01:27:48.689 in a lot of ways. You know, I mean, Hunter S. 01:27:48.689 --> 01:27:52.090 Thompson famously recalled his, yeah, there's 01:27:52.090 --> 01:27:55.090 the two of them meeting together, famously recalled 01:27:55.090 --> 01:27:57.710 sitting in the backseat of a limo with Nixon 01:27:57.710 --> 01:28:00.010 talking about football. And he was like, God, 01:28:00.029 --> 01:28:01.670 if I didn't think he was a piece of shit, I actually 01:28:01.670 --> 01:28:04.010 kind of like him. Oh, that's funny. Yeah. We're 01:28:04.010 --> 01:28:07.430 just talking football. Yeah. You know, look, 01:28:07.489 --> 01:28:10.420 nobody. in that job nobody as a president is 01:28:10.420 --> 01:28:12.460 going to be loved by everyone and i'm sure nixon 01:28:12.460 --> 01:28:14.619 has positive qualities and you know if jackie 01:28:14.619 --> 01:28:16.899 gleason liked him i'm a giant jackie gleason 01:28:16.899 --> 01:28:19.380 fan it's probably probably fun to hang out with 01:28:19.380 --> 01:28:22.880 yeah yeah if you're drunk and you know you're 01:28:22.880 --> 01:28:26.779 the president also we're talking about the 1970s 01:28:26.779 --> 01:28:30.020 right so this is a different world you know Like, 01:28:30.100 --> 01:28:32.100 even if you tell anybody, who the fuck's going 01:28:32.100 --> 01:28:34.600 to believe you? You can't get on TikTok. Like, 01:28:34.600 --> 01:28:35.899 what are you going to do? How are you going to 01:28:35.899 --> 01:28:37.800 get this information out? Oh, exactly. And that's 01:28:37.800 --> 01:28:41.680 kind of how, in my personal opinion, how the 01:28:41.680 --> 01:28:43.840 program was protected, right? Forever. Make it 01:28:43.840 --> 01:28:48.000 crazy. Right. So if anybody leaks anything or 01:28:48.000 --> 01:28:51.579 has an unauthorized disclosure, people are going 01:28:51.579 --> 01:28:52.979 to think you're fucking nuts. Of course. Yeah. 01:28:53.000 --> 01:29:00.069 Yeah. But there are actual reports. that we have 01:29:00.069 --> 01:29:06.029 biological remains? Yes. Oh, yes. Yes. How many? 01:29:07.489 --> 01:29:11.010 It's up there as well, just like with the retrievals. 01:29:11.010 --> 01:29:14.069 And they vary. There's different kinds. Do we 01:29:14.069 --> 01:29:17.090 have an understanding, you don't have to answer 01:29:17.090 --> 01:29:22.069 where, of where they came from? Nobody I talked 01:29:22.069 --> 01:29:25.569 to expoused any specific origin to me. We may 01:29:25.569 --> 01:29:27.750 know that, but... I'm not aware of anything, 01:29:27.930 --> 01:29:32.289 so I don't know. Are there reports of some kind 01:29:32.289 --> 01:29:35.170 of interaction with these things where they're 01:29:35.170 --> 01:29:39.710 giving information or discussing the problems 01:29:39.710 --> 01:29:43.909 of humanity and possible solutions or explaining 01:29:43.909 --> 01:29:47.890 why they're here? Interactions was a sensitive 01:29:47.890 --> 01:29:52.789 subject that my interview subjects did not want 01:29:52.789 --> 01:29:57.340 to get into. I suppose that there's probably 01:29:57.340 --> 01:29:59.140 detailed documentation of those interactions 01:29:59.140 --> 01:30:00.939 that goes into a lot of the stuff you're asking. 01:30:01.100 --> 01:30:03.720 I truly don't even know the answer to a lot of 01:30:03.720 --> 01:30:07.560 that. Is there discussions amongst these people 01:30:07.560 --> 01:30:10.460 that there have been these sort of meetings? 01:30:10.739 --> 01:30:13.500 There was water cooler talk. with some people 01:30:13.500 --> 01:30:15.699 I talked to on the program. I love water cooler. 01:30:15.800 --> 01:30:17.960 Yeah. They're like, Hey bro, guess what I overheard 01:30:17.960 --> 01:30:20.619 in some weird meeting, you know? Right. And so, 01:30:20.619 --> 01:30:22.520 but that is the problem with that is it's like 01:30:22.520 --> 01:30:25.420 secondary information. Right. And I'm so anal 01:30:25.420 --> 01:30:28.819 retentive unless that person told me I had close 01:30:28.819 --> 01:30:32.279 personal. I touched it, whatever. Like, cool, 01:30:32.319 --> 01:30:33.619 well, you're coming to the inspector general 01:30:33.619 --> 01:30:35.479 or I'm going to at least give them your name 01:30:35.479 --> 01:30:37.739 because that's what you told me. And obviously 01:30:37.739 --> 01:30:41.380 I did that. So those people who physically were 01:30:41.380 --> 01:30:44.779 there, were on the program, did the thing, I 01:30:44.779 --> 01:30:48.300 brought to the inspector general. Are there discussions 01:30:48.300 --> 01:30:53.699 of interactions with live beings? There was some 01:30:53.699 --> 01:30:55.960 water cooler talk about that kind of thing. But, 01:30:56.000 --> 01:30:58.159 you know, I don't even want to get into it because 01:30:58.159 --> 01:31:00.699 it's like. There were some details provided to 01:31:00.699 --> 01:31:03.220 me, but it's like it's secondary. And I don't 01:31:03.220 --> 01:31:06.680 know if that's like the telephone game. And I 01:31:06.680 --> 01:31:09.380 don't know if it was hyperbolized in any way, 01:31:09.500 --> 01:31:12.640 you know, in the break room, so to speak. So 01:31:12.640 --> 01:31:15.420 I just I'm so anal about making sure what I say 01:31:15.420 --> 01:31:19.199 is accurate. I don't I don't know. Do we have 01:31:19.199 --> 01:31:21.659 an understanding? I mean, if if there have been 01:31:21.659 --> 01:31:24.300 these discussions, do we have an understanding 01:31:24.300 --> 01:31:28.390 of when they first took place? Yeah, some specific 01:31:28.390 --> 01:31:31.569 events were mentioned to me, and I provided that 01:31:31.569 --> 01:31:33.949 information in a classified setting. And how 01:31:33.949 --> 01:31:37.390 far back did they go? Pretty far back. It's pretty 01:31:37.390 --> 01:31:40.789 weird. Yeah. Well, one of the stories from Roswell 01:31:40.789 --> 01:31:43.850 that's fascinating to me is that Eisenhower had 01:31:43.850 --> 01:31:46.630 the wreckage flown to Wright -Patterson Air Force 01:31:46.630 --> 01:31:50.090 Base in two separate jets in case one of them 01:31:50.090 --> 01:31:53.489 crashed. There has been some public testimony. 01:31:55.479 --> 01:31:59.220 So General DuBose, there were some old timers 01:31:59.220 --> 01:32:03.699 that at least, you know, did some videos in like 01:32:03.699 --> 01:32:07.979 the 90s. Like I'm Brigadier General Exxon. Here's 01:32:07.979 --> 01:32:10.899 what I heard. Whatever. I mean, that's out there 01:32:10.899 --> 01:32:14.159 in the open source. So, yeah. Yeah. And there 01:32:14.159 --> 01:32:17.500 was always a discussion of Hangar 18. Right. 01:32:17.680 --> 01:32:19.699 Have you ever heard of Hangar 18? There's a lot 01:32:19.699 --> 01:32:22.300 of hangers. For whatever reason, I think it was 01:32:22.300 --> 01:32:24.479 maybe a movie. Was there a movie? Well, you know, 01:32:24.479 --> 01:32:27.340 it's funny. Speaking of senators being denied, 01:32:27.539 --> 01:32:31.319 there's a video in the late 80s of Senator Barry 01:32:31.319 --> 01:32:34.300 Goldwater of Goldwater -Nicholsack famed, right? 01:32:34.340 --> 01:32:37.439 He was a two -star general in the Air Force Reserve. 01:32:37.920 --> 01:32:40.500 And literally, this video is on YouTube. It's 01:32:40.500 --> 01:32:43.460 hard to find, though. But Jesse Michaels on American 01:32:43.460 --> 01:32:46.180 Alchemy. Put together, I think, a short video 01:32:46.180 --> 01:32:48.140 yesterday. And there's like a section in there 01:32:48.140 --> 01:32:50.739 where he actually has that Goldwater interview. 01:32:50.939 --> 01:32:53.720 But General Goldwater is like, yeah, one day 01:32:53.720 --> 01:32:56.539 I called Curtis LeMay, who's a very famous Air 01:32:56.539 --> 01:32:58.840 Force general, and was like, General, I heard 01:32:58.840 --> 01:33:01.399 that there's this room that you have UFO material. 01:33:01.840 --> 01:33:05.279 And Barry Goldwater exposes in this interview 01:33:05.279 --> 01:33:09.000 like, yeah, LeMay got madder than hell at me 01:33:09.000 --> 01:33:12.180 and told me never to fucking ask about that again. 01:33:12.260 --> 01:33:14.039 I might have added the F word in there just for. 01:33:14.809 --> 01:33:18.710 For fun. For fun. But yeah, it's bad. The military 01:33:18.710 --> 01:33:22.189 too long. My wife tells me to be careful with 01:33:22.189 --> 01:33:23.949 my language all the time around my niece and 01:33:23.949 --> 01:33:29.630 nephew. But even Barry Goldwater knew that we 01:33:29.630 --> 01:33:33.229 had UFO material. He asked General LeMay when 01:33:33.229 --> 01:33:35.409 he was in the Air Force and General LeMay basically 01:33:35.409 --> 01:33:38.130 told him to fuck off. And that is a literal interview 01:33:38.130 --> 01:33:42.069 you can Google. So a lot of this like people. 01:33:44.240 --> 01:33:46.680 disclosing fact of has really been out in the 01:33:46.680 --> 01:33:49.920 vernacular for a long time. But nobody really 01:33:49.920 --> 01:33:52.739 cared because, well, everybody was just kind 01:33:52.739 --> 01:33:54.800 of like desensitized from the whole subject and 01:33:54.800 --> 01:33:57.859 thought it was wacky. And I'm not the first former 01:33:57.859 --> 01:33:59.920 government official to confirm that. You have 01:33:59.920 --> 01:34:02.479 Goldwater and all these other folks. Harry Reid, 01:34:02.659 --> 01:34:05.600 who made the same disclosure to The New Yorker 01:34:05.600 --> 01:34:08.100 a month after I talked to him in person. Christopher 01:34:08.100 --> 01:34:11.279 Mellon. Yeah, Mellon has said stuff. Lou Elizondo. 01:34:12.170 --> 01:34:15.369 said he believes we have material on, I think 01:34:15.369 --> 01:34:19.989 it was Tucker Carlson a couple years ago. So 01:34:19.989 --> 01:34:21.550 there's certainly been other officials. Now, 01:34:21.569 --> 01:34:26.029 I'm just trying to spike the football and take 01:34:26.029 --> 01:34:28.250 it all the way to the end zone here. And luckily, 01:34:28.470 --> 01:34:31.689 we have a Congress that's mostly motivated, minus 01:34:31.689 --> 01:34:34.409 Mike Rogers and Mike Turner. You're getting cool 01:34:34.409 --> 01:34:36.170 in your stockings. I'm going to make sure your 01:34:36.170 --> 01:34:41.779 office gets cool. You know, they they want change, 01:34:42.000 --> 01:34:44.319 too, and they realize it's time for a change. 01:34:44.420 --> 01:34:47.560 And presumably, you know, Chuck Schumer's talked 01:34:47.560 --> 01:34:51.420 to, you know, Jake Sullivan and President Biden. 01:34:51.460 --> 01:34:53.079 And, you know, who's in the White House right 01:34:53.079 --> 01:34:58.500 now is John Podesta. He is the green energy czar 01:34:58.500 --> 01:35:00.680 or something like that in the White House. But, 01:35:00.720 --> 01:35:05.319 you know, John Podesta. Shout out to John Podesta 01:35:05.319 --> 01:35:08.270 in the White House. Has an axe to grind on this 01:35:08.270 --> 01:35:11.189 issue, too, because remember, he tweeted at the 01:35:11.189 --> 01:35:13.409 end of Obama's second term, you know, my biggest 01:35:13.409 --> 01:35:17.770 failure was not to have Obama release the UFO 01:35:17.770 --> 01:35:20.369 file and made the same kind of statement with 01:35:20.369 --> 01:35:23.390 Clinton. So certainly if Mr. Podesta is listening 01:35:23.390 --> 01:35:25.229 in the White House, you know, I'm here to help. 01:35:25.670 --> 01:35:27.670 You know, I hope that you're championing this 01:35:27.670 --> 01:35:29.689 within the executive office of the president. 01:35:30.550 --> 01:35:34.840 And, you know, the other. Speaking of people 01:35:34.840 --> 01:35:37.720 like Goldwater who've made some weird non sequitur 01:35:37.720 --> 01:35:41.779 kind of admissions, there's a John Stossel interview 01:35:41.779 --> 01:35:46.159 of Mike Pompeo, the former CIA director, about 01:35:46.159 --> 01:35:49.079 two years ago or so. You can find it online where 01:35:49.079 --> 01:35:52.800 Pompeo talks about the JFK file and dismisses 01:35:52.800 --> 01:35:54.260 it or something about like there's no boogeyman 01:35:54.260 --> 01:35:59.899 here. But then he quickly says. Oh, I've seen 01:35:59.899 --> 01:36:03.859 the UFO file too, and we have bigger problems. 01:36:04.539 --> 01:36:07.600 But at least the way it was edited, John Stossel 01:36:07.600 --> 01:36:10.539 didn't even follow up, at least the way the final 01:36:10.539 --> 01:36:12.500 cut was. I'm like, dude, if I was John Stossel, 01:36:12.500 --> 01:36:15.159 I'd be like, what do you mean, Mike Pompeo? You've 01:36:15.159 --> 01:36:18.619 seen the UFO file, and we have bigger problems. 01:36:18.720 --> 01:36:22.000 And UFO file, the way I interpret that, is a 01:36:22.000 --> 01:36:27.850 long existing. File or briefing document or something 01:36:27.850 --> 01:36:31.189 that he had access to. So I think I think the 01:36:31.189 --> 01:36:33.329 former CIA director, Mike Pompeo, should probably 01:36:33.329 --> 01:36:36.729 clarify what he said two years ago. Next, if 01:36:36.729 --> 01:36:39.789 anybody interviews him next, ask Mike that question. 01:36:40.069 --> 01:36:42.909 What did he mean? Yeah, we have bigger problems. 01:36:42.989 --> 01:36:45.069 Well, we certainly have bigger problems in terms 01:36:45.069 --> 01:36:48.050 of our current existence, specifically with what 01:36:48.050 --> 01:36:49.630 you were talking about earlier, the proxy wars 01:36:49.630 --> 01:36:53.079 and collapse of society. As we know it, which 01:36:53.079 --> 01:36:56.680 it seems. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I feel for the 01:36:56.680 --> 01:36:59.060 Ukrainian and the Israeli people. You know, I'm 01:36:59.060 --> 01:37:01.579 not taking any particular side, but certainly 01:37:01.579 --> 01:37:05.659 people forget U .S. aid in these wars. What's 01:37:05.659 --> 01:37:07.819 the like most expensive thing if you've studied 01:37:07.819 --> 01:37:10.920 phases of conflict? It's the reconstruction costs 01:37:10.920 --> 01:37:15.100 after the conflict. So we in it for like triple 01:37:15.100 --> 01:37:18.520 digit billions like the war on terror. I mean, 01:37:18.520 --> 01:37:22.020 certainly. The Israeli conflict is a great distraction 01:37:22.020 --> 01:37:24.659 because, you know, like Russia is very tight 01:37:24.659 --> 01:37:28.000 with Iran. Right. And personal opinion, you know, 01:37:28.000 --> 01:37:30.000 this is my own personal opinion, but I'm sure 01:37:30.000 --> 01:37:32.600 they commiserated and was like, can you start 01:37:32.600 --> 01:37:34.840 a two front war because we would like to win 01:37:34.840 --> 01:37:38.840 in Ukraine. And this will distract the U .S. 01:37:38.880 --> 01:37:41.840 because Israel is a longtime, you know, Middle 01:37:41.840 --> 01:37:44.939 East ally. So it's brilliant. It's brilliant. 01:37:45.000 --> 01:37:49.210 Public opinion. I mean the virtue signalers on 01:37:49.210 --> 01:37:52.069 social media have essentially completely forgotten 01:37:52.069 --> 01:37:55.670 about Ukraine. It's all about Israel and Palestine. 01:37:56.130 --> 01:37:59.029 Yeah, you don't even see it. And I understand 01:37:59.029 --> 01:38:01.609 what the National Security Council determination 01:38:01.609 --> 01:38:03.689 was that they've discussed publicly where they're 01:38:03.689 --> 01:38:06.789 kind of like trying to drain Russia's military 01:38:06.789 --> 01:38:12.270 capability and annexation of Ukrainian territory 01:38:12.270 --> 01:38:15.600 because they don't want … Russia's sphere of 01:38:15.600 --> 01:38:18.579 influence to further enter that caucus region 01:38:18.579 --> 01:38:21.260 and stuff. But, yeah, it's funny. Like you said, 01:38:21.420 --> 01:38:22.800 it's like you don't even talk about Ukraine. 01:38:22.899 --> 01:38:25.899 It's all about Israel now, which is a horrible 01:38:25.899 --> 01:38:28.939 conflict on both sides. Like it's just unfortunate. 01:38:30.279 --> 01:38:34.140 Without a doubt. Yeah. It was a very interesting 01:38:34.140 --> 01:38:35.779 statement, though, that we have bigger problems. 01:38:36.560 --> 01:38:41.840 So even if we do, this seems to be like a – this 01:38:41.840 --> 01:38:45.229 is such a human question. Because it's one of 01:38:45.229 --> 01:38:48.329 the biggest mysteries. Obviously, you know, there's 01:38:48.329 --> 01:38:50.829 the Fermi paradox. Where are they, right? And 01:38:50.829 --> 01:38:53.609 if you look out into the cosmos, if you've ever 01:38:53.609 --> 01:38:55.149 gone on a clear night and you look out and you 01:38:55.149 --> 01:38:57.390 realize those are all stars and those stars are 01:38:57.390 --> 01:39:01.149 all surrounded by planets and there's literally 01:39:01.149 --> 01:39:04.409 hundreds of billions of them. The Drake equation, 01:39:04.590 --> 01:39:07.550 you can calculate what probable sentient life. 01:39:08.229 --> 01:39:10.250 And I've been an amateur astronomer since I've 01:39:10.250 --> 01:39:13.409 been a kid and I've never... Crazy enough, I've 01:39:13.409 --> 01:39:16.789 never seen anything remarkable. I've seen some 01:39:16.789 --> 01:39:18.789 stuff that could have been ball lightning and 01:39:18.789 --> 01:39:21.770 some satellite passes that weren't registered 01:39:21.770 --> 01:39:26.329 online. You could actually check to see if there's 01:39:26.329 --> 01:39:27.770 going to be like an iridium flare or something 01:39:27.770 --> 01:39:30.350 like that. And maybe that was a satellite pass, 01:39:30.470 --> 01:39:32.529 maybe not. But I've never seen in my personal 01:39:32.529 --> 01:39:37.529 life, never seen anything weird. And it's funny 01:39:37.529 --> 01:39:39.590 you mentioned the Fermi paradox and it's like, 01:39:39.630 --> 01:39:43.420 well, where are they? OK, well, you know, if 01:39:43.420 --> 01:39:44.880 you're sentient life, you're certainly going 01:39:44.880 --> 01:39:48.659 to have sophisticated cover concealment and deception 01:39:48.659 --> 01:39:50.640 techniques. It goes back to like what Jacques 01:39:50.640 --> 01:39:53.560 Vallée's work is, where, you know, the phenomenon 01:39:53.560 --> 01:39:55.640 presenting itself in different ways. But also 01:39:55.640 --> 01:39:58.520 I live in the mountains of Colorado. Right. So 01:39:58.520 --> 01:40:01.399 there is a mountain lion den about 10 miles from 01:40:01.399 --> 01:40:06.079 my house in Colorado. Literally, you know, I 01:40:06.079 --> 01:40:09.060 am. There are lower predatory sentience and higher 01:40:09.060 --> 01:40:11.579 predatory sentience. And I'm using this as a 01:40:11.579 --> 01:40:17.720 device or an analogy for NHI and us. Well, on 01:40:17.720 --> 01:40:20.140 a day -to -day basis, I don't care what a mountain 01:40:20.140 --> 01:40:24.319 lion is doing. I may hike in that area to explore, 01:40:24.619 --> 01:40:29.619 but day -to -day, I'm afraid of it and I don't 01:40:29.619 --> 01:40:33.300 care. And think about what humans might be, unfortunately, 01:40:33.500 --> 01:40:36.010 to some of these higher sentience where... This 01:40:36.010 --> 01:40:38.630 monkey has a nuke. Holy shit. Keep them in the 01:40:38.630 --> 01:40:40.750 cage. We don't want to go anywhere near them. 01:40:41.210 --> 01:40:43.289 And so people think that there would be some 01:40:43.289 --> 01:40:47.270 kind of open contact with some higher sentience 01:40:47.270 --> 01:40:49.409 that is either visiting Earth or from another 01:40:49.409 --> 01:40:53.510 dimension or whatever the origin is. But they 01:40:53.510 --> 01:40:56.689 probably don't care. They're probably neutral 01:40:56.689 --> 01:40:59.770 at best and maybe actually fearful of us in some 01:40:59.770 --> 01:41:03.859 sense. We're the progeny of, you know, personal 01:41:03.859 --> 01:41:08.479 opinion, progeny of some experiment. And it's 01:41:08.479 --> 01:41:10.220 almost like living in the matrix, but it's not 01:41:10.220 --> 01:41:11.960 like an actual simulation. It's like we want 01:41:11.960 --> 01:41:16.300 the simulation to go. We don't want to intercede 01:41:16.300 --> 01:41:19.180 because we want to see what, you know, Homo sapiens 01:41:19.180 --> 01:41:21.880 sapien 2 .0 is going to do after the Great Flood 01:41:21.880 --> 01:41:24.619 or something like that, right? Yeah. That's one 01:41:24.619 --> 01:41:27.819 of the more fascinating ideas is that we're some 01:41:27.819 --> 01:41:31.729 sort of a product of. genetic engineering i honestly 01:41:31.729 --> 01:41:34.930 would not be surprised i don't know that to be 01:41:34.930 --> 01:41:37.489 true but we're so different than everything else 01:41:37.489 --> 01:41:41.029 is here so different so beyond different i mean 01:41:41.029 --> 01:41:43.470 there's not another primate that is even reasonably 01:41:43.470 --> 01:41:48.569 close i mean if you there's uh speculation amongst 01:41:48.569 --> 01:41:52.710 primatologists and there's a not even speculation 01:41:52.710 --> 01:41:56.470 they believe that chimpanzees in particular have 01:41:56.470 --> 01:41:59.239 entered into the stone age So they're at the 01:41:59.239 --> 01:42:01.479 beginning of the Stone Age. They're using tools, 01:42:01.619 --> 01:42:03.840 you know, and there's obviously some learned 01:42:03.840 --> 01:42:07.140 behavior. Like there's some footage of orangutans 01:42:07.140 --> 01:42:10.359 using spears to hunt fish with. Oh, interesting. 01:42:10.579 --> 01:42:12.479 Have you ever seen that? No, I've not. It's cool 01:42:12.479 --> 01:42:14.840 as shit. There's an orangutan that's hanging 01:42:14.840 --> 01:42:19.340 on a branch over a river or a body of water and 01:42:19.340 --> 01:42:23.840 he's stabbing at fish with a spear, which is 01:42:23.840 --> 01:42:26.479 incredible. I mean, they're using tools. I mean, 01:42:26.500 --> 01:42:30.840 we know they use tools to extract termites and 01:42:30.840 --> 01:42:33.279 the like. Look at that. Oh, that's crazy. How 01:42:33.279 --> 01:42:35.420 crazy is that? I mean, he's clearly hunting. 01:42:36.220 --> 01:42:40.380 I mean, he's going fishing in Borneo. I mean, 01:42:40.420 --> 01:42:46.239 that is, you know, at the very least, a distant 01:42:46.239 --> 01:42:50.949 cousin of us. Some, you know, intelligent. primate 01:42:50.949 --> 01:42:53.590 that is to figure out a way to use tools. How 01:42:53.590 --> 01:42:57.289 long would it take an orangutan to become a human 01:42:57.289 --> 01:42:59.090 being? How many millions of years are we talking 01:42:59.090 --> 01:43:01.170 about of evolution? But it seems to be that process 01:43:01.170 --> 01:43:04.050 has started. Interesting. But why are we so fucking 01:43:04.050 --> 01:43:05.390 different than everything else? Yeah, like are 01:43:05.390 --> 01:43:08.109 we a product of Darwinian evolution or what is 01:43:08.109 --> 01:43:10.170 it? Punctuated equilibrium is obviously another 01:43:10.170 --> 01:43:12.350 theory. And I'm not an anthropologist by any 01:43:12.350 --> 01:43:15.909 means. I've watched some Netflix episodes. Yeah, 01:43:15.909 --> 01:43:18.850 me too. A lot of YouTube. But yeah, we seem to 01:43:18.850 --> 01:43:24.979 be oddly Advanced. Advanced. And we seem to dispossess 01:43:24.979 --> 01:43:28.000 other skills. I mean, it goes back to like the 01:43:28.000 --> 01:43:30.880 Stargate program. Right. You know, with the declassified 01:43:30.880 --> 01:43:33.460 by Clinton and sensibly canceled, I guess, in 01:43:33.460 --> 01:43:36.520 96, you know, where you had people trained in 01:43:36.520 --> 01:43:39.939 remote viewing and like. There was feedback loops 01:43:39.939 --> 01:43:42.680 to confirm what they saw was real and either 01:43:42.680 --> 01:43:45.119 satellite imagery or human sources where they 01:43:45.119 --> 01:43:47.220 sketched out a room of where there's hostages 01:43:47.220 --> 01:43:49.779 and they got a hostage out and they're like, 01:43:49.779 --> 01:43:52.060 and this is a real story actually. And they're 01:43:52.060 --> 01:43:54.439 like, did you have a source in that room? How 01:43:54.439 --> 01:43:56.180 do you know where all the corridors were and 01:43:56.180 --> 01:43:59.239 everything? I was like, no, actually, Pat Price 01:43:59.239 --> 01:44:01.680 remote viewed you. And he's like, what the fuck? 01:44:01.680 --> 01:44:04.960 So there's something going on there. And that's 01:44:04.960 --> 01:44:07.649 like a Gary Nolan. you know, has studied a lot 01:44:07.649 --> 01:44:11.069 of this stuff. Very famously, he's pointed out 01:44:11.069 --> 01:44:13.529 the caudate patinum in the brain, right? It's 01:44:13.529 --> 01:44:15.529 this horseshoe shaped thing in the middle of 01:44:15.529 --> 01:44:19.270 your brain that if he's done MRIs and CAT scans, 01:44:19.409 --> 01:44:21.329 and I hope I'm not butchering his work. Gary 01:44:21.329 --> 01:44:25.869 might, you know, slap me later, but it lights 01:44:25.869 --> 01:44:28.449 up with people who have those kind of skills. 01:44:28.609 --> 01:44:31.689 They have like an overactive caudate patinum 01:44:31.689 --> 01:44:34.420 in the brain. And it's like, okay, well. Is it 01:44:34.420 --> 01:44:36.340 a transceiver of some sort? I'm guessing that's 01:44:36.340 --> 01:44:39.340 the case. Is it an emerging property of human 01:44:39.340 --> 01:44:41.119 beings as we evolve? Exactly. And we're seeing 01:44:41.119 --> 01:44:43.260 just a few human beings that have this stuff. 01:44:43.479 --> 01:44:47.779 And then if it is a transceiver, where's the 01:44:47.779 --> 01:44:50.100 information? Is it in a higher spatial dimension? 01:44:50.359 --> 01:44:53.119 Or how are they extracting? How are they able 01:44:53.119 --> 01:44:58.100 to basically be non -locality, right? They're 01:44:58.100 --> 01:45:01.239 able to project themselves somehow, their consciousness. 01:45:02.560 --> 01:45:05.760 to a, and this is a declassified example from 01:45:05.760 --> 01:45:09.399 Stargate, a Russian missile base, sketch the 01:45:09.399 --> 01:45:12.420 crane and where the silos are, what the status 01:45:12.420 --> 01:45:15.720 is. You know, satellite comes over, takes a picture, 01:45:15.819 --> 01:45:18.140 and it's exactly the way they sketched it. How'd 01:45:18.140 --> 01:45:21.479 they do that? Like, it's certainly real because 01:45:21.479 --> 01:45:24.560 there is a feedback loop. Now, there's a lot 01:45:24.560 --> 01:45:26.859 of charlatans in the psychic space and all that, 01:45:26.920 --> 01:45:28.399 but, like, at least that government program, 01:45:28.539 --> 01:45:31.229 and I've talked to... You know, how put off and 01:45:31.229 --> 01:45:34.689 people who actually ran that program at SRI for 01:45:34.689 --> 01:45:38.609 the CIA, then DIA and the army. And that seems 01:45:38.609 --> 01:45:41.149 to be the men who's staring at goats. Right. 01:45:41.229 --> 01:45:43.449 The George Clooney movies, the famous movie based 01:45:43.449 --> 01:45:47.630 on the Stargate program seems to be legit as 01:45:47.630 --> 01:45:50.149 far as we can measure from a feedback perspective. 01:45:50.189 --> 01:45:52.970 What was the explanation for the discontinuation 01:45:52.970 --> 01:45:56.090 of that program? Oh, gosh, I'm not a scholar 01:45:56.090 --> 01:46:00.010 on that. Something Russell Targ or Hal Pudov 01:46:00.010 --> 01:46:04.390 or one of those guys could explain if it was 01:46:04.390 --> 01:46:05.670 just like I got caught up in the bureaucracy 01:46:05.670 --> 01:46:11.630 or what. I don't remember. Yeah. Yeah. So the 01:46:11.630 --> 01:46:15.109 idea of that being an emergent property of human 01:46:15.109 --> 01:46:17.390 beings as we evolve has always been fascinating 01:46:17.390 --> 01:46:20.460 to me because there's. There's certainly something 01:46:20.460 --> 01:46:23.760 that goes on with human communication other than 01:46:23.760 --> 01:46:28.380 we make sounds that represent objects and physical 01:46:28.380 --> 01:46:31.180 things and that the other person interprets those 01:46:31.180 --> 01:46:34.020 sounds and understands it. There's communication 01:46:34.020 --> 01:46:36.640 between human beings that's – Oh, acoustic communication, 01:46:37.100 --> 01:46:39.979 like the symbol rate, if you will, is really 01:46:39.979 --> 01:46:42.159 slow. Like if you weren't able to consciously 01:46:42.159 --> 01:46:45.859 communicate, a .k .a. the hokey term like telepathy, 01:46:45.920 --> 01:46:51.300 right? And it's funny because that's what a lot 01:46:51.300 --> 01:46:54.760 of people espouse that have had, you know, alleged 01:46:54.760 --> 01:46:57.079 contacts. Right. A lot of the people that Dr. 01:46:57.279 --> 01:47:00.819 John Mack at Harvard studied over the years where 01:47:00.819 --> 01:47:02.460 they felt like they were getting hit with like 01:47:02.460 --> 01:47:06.800 a QR code. It was like instant knowledge or they 01:47:06.800 --> 01:47:10.380 heard. Like somebody speaking to them non -verbally 01:47:10.380 --> 01:47:12.979 in some way that they couldn't even conceptualize 01:47:12.979 --> 01:47:15.279 through, you know, acoustic communication or 01:47:15.279 --> 01:47:17.739 talk, if you will. And it's the same thing like 01:47:17.739 --> 01:47:22.079 book Proof of Heaven by Dr. Eben Alexander, MD. 01:47:22.180 --> 01:47:23.760 I remember reading it when I was in Afghanistan 01:47:23.760 --> 01:47:25.859 and I was like, this is a crazy experience. This 01:47:25.859 --> 01:47:28.659 medical doctor has necrotizing fasciitis of the 01:47:28.659 --> 01:47:31.680 brain. It's a near -death experience. And he 01:47:31.680 --> 01:47:34.699 gets this like crazy. Like The Feelings of Love, 01:47:34.779 --> 01:47:36.380 other stuff. It's a really interesting book. 01:47:36.460 --> 01:47:38.899 It's like a scientific take on a doctor's own 01:47:38.899 --> 01:47:41.659 near -death experience. But when he came back 01:47:41.659 --> 01:47:45.260 and somehow the fasciitis didn't eat away his 01:47:45.260 --> 01:47:48.319 brain and he was cognitively normal, he tried 01:47:48.319 --> 01:47:53.619 to write down what information or facts of the 01:47:53.619 --> 01:47:57.579 universe he learned during his NDE. And he couldn't 01:47:57.579 --> 01:47:59.420 even put it in English. It was like crazy. He 01:47:59.420 --> 01:48:02.750 didn't know how to translate it. Into our language, 01:48:02.949 --> 01:48:05.229 it was just there was no like adjectives, if 01:48:05.229 --> 01:48:08.130 you were adverbs, et cetera, that could describe 01:48:08.130 --> 01:48:11.529 the knowledge that he knew like natively when 01:48:11.529 --> 01:48:13.430 he had that near death experience is a really 01:48:13.430 --> 01:48:16.569 fascinating book. And he talks about the disease 01:48:16.569 --> 01:48:19.369 he had and his physiological condition at the 01:48:19.369 --> 01:48:22.189 time. Really interesting. What was he able to 01:48:22.189 --> 01:48:25.689 discern from that? What was the overall message? 01:48:25.810 --> 01:48:28.149 Yeah, it was like this – there's the message 01:48:28.149 --> 01:48:30.909 of love, which is positive. But it was like this 01:48:30.909 --> 01:48:34.489 interconnectedness. Everybody is kind of connected 01:48:34.489 --> 01:48:40.649 in a way that they don't really realize. I mean 01:48:40.649 --> 01:48:43.010 you think about – this is getting really trippy. 01:48:44.189 --> 01:48:46.029 A lot of thoughts with people who are smarter 01:48:46.029 --> 01:48:48.090 than me. I like to talk to them about this kind 01:48:48.090 --> 01:48:52.279 of stuff where – If you're, say, a higher dimensional 01:48:52.279 --> 01:48:55.180 sentience, right, the act of creation – so act 01:48:55.180 --> 01:48:58.140 of creation for 3D beings is having a baby, right? 01:48:58.180 --> 01:49:00.279 It's producing another three -dimensional object. 01:49:01.159 --> 01:49:03.600 Well, if you're in five -dimensional space or 01:49:03.600 --> 01:49:05.520 even, I guess, four -dimensional physical space, 01:49:05.680 --> 01:49:08.840 what if act of creation is creating other conscious 01:49:08.840 --> 01:49:11.600 realities and other universes? And the act of 01:49:11.600 --> 01:49:17.180 creation is creating the universe where you, 01:49:17.319 --> 01:49:21.369 me – Jamie, whatever, we might be connected to 01:49:21.369 --> 01:49:24.989 the same, I'll call it universal consciousness 01:49:24.989 --> 01:49:30.829 or a higher dimensional sentient life force or 01:49:30.829 --> 01:49:32.829 life form. I know that sounds like really out 01:49:32.829 --> 01:49:36.310 there, but when you think about it, there's a 01:49:36.310 --> 01:49:38.390 lot of other theologies out there that basically 01:49:38.390 --> 01:49:40.909 espouse that. I have a very good friend of mine 01:49:40.909 --> 01:49:44.289 who's a PhD level kind of higher up in the Mormon 01:49:44.289 --> 01:49:47.560 church and basically the Mormon theology. It's 01:49:47.560 --> 01:49:49.600 kind of like that. The Mormons say you were once 01:49:49.600 --> 01:49:52.779 with God or like God, but then you were sent 01:49:52.779 --> 01:49:54.779 down to like a lower plane of existence. And 01:49:54.779 --> 01:49:56.680 that's literally what I'm talking about right 01:49:56.680 --> 01:50:02.420 now, but just in a secular sense. So maybe we're 01:50:02.420 --> 01:50:04.439 all created beings from, and this, you know, 01:50:04.439 --> 01:50:06.640 this doesn't like hurt Christian theology, whatever. 01:50:06.739 --> 01:50:09.439 It's actually kind of enforcing the fact there's 01:50:09.439 --> 01:50:11.960 a creator and we're literally created in the 01:50:11.960 --> 01:50:15.439 image of a creator, literally. And that's kind 01:50:15.439 --> 01:50:18.479 of. what life really is. It's like, think about 01:50:18.479 --> 01:50:22.119 it's like a weird 3D plus time temporal sensory 01:50:22.119 --> 01:50:25.460 experience for a higher dimensional sentience. 01:50:25.800 --> 01:50:28.500 You're here to experience time in this weird 01:50:28.500 --> 01:50:33.720 linear fashion and to experience yourself divorced 01:50:33.720 --> 01:50:37.119 from yourself to gain knowledge and to report 01:50:37.119 --> 01:50:40.180 back is maybe what life is. And that's just kind 01:50:40.180 --> 01:50:43.819 of my own personal theology as a summation of 01:50:43.819 --> 01:50:47.659 just During COVID, I was really bored. And that's 01:50:47.659 --> 01:50:52.260 what I was looking at. Well, I extrapolate that 01:50:52.260 --> 01:50:55.500 to the creation of AI. And I think if you think 01:50:55.500 --> 01:50:57.899 about human beings as something that creates 01:50:57.899 --> 01:51:02.079 things, I think ultimately we create a new life. 01:51:02.260 --> 01:51:04.600 Exactly. What if higher sentience is creating 01:51:04.600 --> 01:51:06.779 some kind of artificial intelligence? You know, 01:51:06.779 --> 01:51:08.800 call it like a commander data from Star Trek 01:51:08.800 --> 01:51:12.189 Next Gen, right? Not even really, it's made in 01:51:12.189 --> 01:51:14.329 the image of the creator in some sense, but it's 01:51:14.329 --> 01:51:18.449 not even, and that's what might get sent into 01:51:18.449 --> 01:51:21.970 these like long endurance, you know, missions. 01:51:22.050 --> 01:51:23.329 And of course, you know, people are like, well, 01:51:23.409 --> 01:51:27.989 why would they, you know, come here so far to 01:51:27.989 --> 01:51:30.329 crash, et cetera? Or are they crashing on purpose? 01:51:30.789 --> 01:51:33.029 Do you know that for a fact? Or are they crashing 01:51:33.029 --> 01:51:38.090 by accident? And what if they're like, like von 01:51:38.090 --> 01:51:40.649 neumann replicating probes right you can google 01:51:40.649 --> 01:51:42.869 that but you know what if they're just throw 01:51:42.869 --> 01:51:45.590 away which volume and probes are just like throwaway 01:51:45.590 --> 01:51:48.430 spacecraft like yeah they're just we send it 01:51:48.430 --> 01:51:50.329 out we don't really care what the mission success 01:51:50.329 --> 01:51:54.029 is or they're seeding us or as jacques valet 01:51:54.029 --> 01:51:57.069 says it's like you know here's the key can you 01:51:57.069 --> 01:52:00.670 unlock the cage kind of thing right yeah so and 01:52:00.670 --> 01:52:03.840 it seems that It would be a long, I mean, if 01:52:03.840 --> 01:52:06.000 you think about biological evolution, so long, 01:52:06.199 --> 01:52:10.140 lengthy process. And if ultimately that led us 01:52:10.140 --> 01:52:13.340 to the creation of a technology that's far superior 01:52:13.340 --> 01:52:16.159 in terms of its capabilities of understanding 01:52:16.159 --> 01:52:19.319 and thinking, that seems to be what's happening. 01:52:19.539 --> 01:52:21.199 And that's one of the reasons why so many people 01:52:21.199 --> 01:52:24.239 are concerned about it. The term artificial intelligence 01:52:24.239 --> 01:52:26.659 is a very strange term because it's not artificial. 01:52:27.420 --> 01:52:30.369 It's intelligence. It's silicon -based instead 01:52:30.369 --> 01:52:32.489 of carbon -based, right? Yeah. It doesn't have 01:52:32.489 --> 01:52:34.930 blood and tissue and cells, but it has something 01:52:34.930 --> 01:52:37.289 that's superior. It also has something that's 01:52:37.289 --> 01:52:41.590 much more scalable, right? We have a very obvious 01:52:41.590 --> 01:52:43.770 biological limitation in terms of evolution. 01:52:44.409 --> 01:52:46.810 If you look at evolution, and we turn back to 01:52:46.810 --> 01:52:50.300 the orangutans that are fishing. They're obviously 01:52:50.300 --> 01:52:53.539 learning new things, and those new properties, 01:52:53.640 --> 01:52:56.260 those new things we assume will be encoded in 01:52:56.260 --> 01:52:58.319 their genetics and passed to their children. 01:52:58.460 --> 01:53:01.140 Do you have children? No. I have three dogs. 01:53:02.100 --> 01:53:05.460 I'm a fluffy dad. The problem is dogs don't learn 01:53:05.460 --> 01:53:08.579 from – well, they do. But one of the most bizarre 01:53:08.579 --> 01:53:11.399 things about children is that they have properties 01:53:11.399 --> 01:53:18.000 that are clearly – it's hard to say, right? Because 01:53:18.000 --> 01:53:20.960 my children obviously have the example of my 01:53:20.960 --> 01:53:25.079 wife and myself, and they obviously see a lot 01:53:25.079 --> 01:53:28.239 of how we live our life and, you know, discipline 01:53:28.239 --> 01:53:31.380 and hard work and creativity and all those things. 01:53:31.500 --> 01:53:35.560 But there's also, they seem to have gifts that 01:53:35.560 --> 01:53:39.720 are, they seem to be clearly genetic. Yeah. And 01:53:39.720 --> 01:53:42.939 artistic gifts that just seem extraordinary, 01:53:43.100 --> 01:53:45.300 that are unusual, that I had when I was younger, 01:53:45.399 --> 01:53:48.560 that I was an illustrator. I have a young daughter 01:53:48.560 --> 01:53:51.260 that's just extraordinarily good at art. Really? 01:53:51.380 --> 01:53:54.000 Used to illustrate? Yeah. That's what I wanted 01:53:54.000 --> 01:53:55.560 to do. I wanted to be a comic book illustrator. 01:53:55.640 --> 01:53:58.460 Oh, interesting. Interesting. Yeah. But then 01:53:58.460 --> 01:54:01.920 I have this other daughter that's... super gifted 01:54:01.920 --> 01:54:04.500 athletically like she can learn things really 01:54:04.500 --> 01:54:07.039 quickly it's extraordinary it's and it's weird 01:54:07.039 --> 01:54:10.840 and and also this drive that she has i had a 01:54:10.840 --> 01:54:14.960 drive from poverty and from you know a lot of 01:54:14.960 --> 01:54:17.960 like stuff that was wrong with my childhood that 01:54:17.960 --> 01:54:20.819 seemed to be i had this need to prove myself 01:54:20.819 --> 01:54:24.220 she doesn't have any of those problems but she 01:54:24.220 --> 01:54:28.109 also has this insane drive It's weird. It's a 01:54:28.109 --> 01:54:30.829 weird discipline. It's extraordinary. That seems 01:54:30.829 --> 01:54:34.770 to be very different than most kids. And I just 01:54:34.770 --> 01:54:37.390 think that's an emerging genetic. I think there's 01:54:37.390 --> 01:54:40.729 something encoded in whatever you are as a human 01:54:40.729 --> 01:54:43.229 that as you replicate and as you have children, 01:54:43.449 --> 01:54:48.550 they have that. They have some of that. And I 01:54:48.550 --> 01:54:53.930 think that is this process, this biological evolutionary 01:54:53.930 --> 01:54:58.149 process with humans. There's so much chaos. There's 01:54:58.149 --> 01:54:59.930 so much – I mean you could breed with a dumb 01:54:59.930 --> 01:55:02.850 person. You could find a hot dumb person and 01:55:02.850 --> 01:55:04.449 have a baby with them. Now your kid is fucked. 01:55:04.630 --> 01:55:08.590 We see that. Obviously some people are just born 01:55:08.590 --> 01:55:10.810 with brains that just don't work that well. It's 01:55:10.810 --> 01:55:12.590 just like I'm sure you've met some dull -minded 01:55:12.590 --> 01:55:14.750 people and you try to talk to them about things 01:55:14.750 --> 01:55:18.010 and there's no one there. You're right. So, OK, 01:55:18.250 --> 01:55:20.550 good luck and good luck with whatever children 01:55:20.550 --> 01:55:23.149 you have and whatever – what are they going to 01:55:23.149 --> 01:55:25.069 have? What tools do they have? Yeah, we're genetically 01:55:25.069 --> 01:55:28.340 encoding. artificial intelligence now. I think 01:55:28.340 --> 01:55:29.520 that's where you were going. Yeah, where I'm 01:55:29.520 --> 01:55:32.020 going with it, these biological limitations that 01:55:32.020 --> 01:55:35.119 we have, it's very clear that we're essentially 01:55:35.119 --> 01:55:38.720 dealing with a Model T as opposed to a Tesla, 01:55:38.840 --> 01:55:42.399 which is just insanely superior to these ancient 01:55:42.399 --> 01:55:46.600 vehicles. We create technology. I've always said 01:55:46.600 --> 01:55:49.279 this. If you looked at the human race, if you 01:55:49.279 --> 01:55:51.359 were some sort of an outside observer and you 01:55:51.359 --> 01:55:54.380 stumbled upon this... thing that occupies this 01:55:54.380 --> 01:55:57.119 planet, this apex predator of this planet, you 01:55:57.119 --> 01:55:59.239 would say, what is this thing doing? What's making 01:55:59.239 --> 01:56:01.760 technology? All the other things that it does. 01:56:01.920 --> 01:56:04.279 It does all these other things, but what do these 01:56:04.279 --> 01:56:08.220 things generally motivate? What do they move 01:56:08.220 --> 01:56:11.100 towards? They move towards the advancement of 01:56:11.100 --> 01:56:14.699 technology and innovation. There's a constant... 01:56:15.000 --> 01:56:17.840 aspect of human beings. If you trace us back 01:56:17.840 --> 01:56:20.340 to the earliest civilizations, to what we have 01:56:20.340 --> 01:56:23.000 today, things constantly improve unless something 01:56:23.000 --> 01:56:25.239 goes horribly wrong, unless there's some sort 01:56:25.239 --> 01:56:28.100 of a natural disaster or some sort of genocide. 01:56:29.199 --> 01:56:32.479 If something doesn't happen to these creatures, 01:56:32.640 --> 01:56:35.060 what do they do? They consistently make better 01:56:35.060 --> 01:56:38.640 things. Well, that, if you extrapolate, if you 01:56:38.640 --> 01:56:40.859 follow that to its natural progression, well, 01:56:40.899 --> 01:56:43.619 what is that going to get to? Well, once they've 01:56:43.619 --> 01:56:46.119 invented computers and once they've invented 01:56:46.119 --> 01:56:48.720 devices and once they've invented things that 01:56:48.720 --> 01:56:50.800 enhance their personal understanding of the world 01:56:50.800 --> 01:56:52.840 around them, which we already have now with phones. 01:56:52.939 --> 01:56:54.399 We already have with the Internet. We already 01:56:54.399 --> 01:56:55.760 have with our ability to communicate with each 01:56:55.760 --> 01:56:59.039 other. The newest, latest Android phones that 01:56:59.039 --> 01:57:02.680 are coming out. Will translate natively on your 01:57:02.680 --> 01:57:06.180 phone in real time in conversation So you could 01:57:06.180 --> 01:57:08.640 be speaking Portuguese to me. I would hear it 01:57:08.640 --> 01:57:12.039 in English on a phone call, which is fucking 01:57:12.039 --> 01:57:14.420 crazy It's like universal translator. Yeah track 01:57:14.420 --> 01:57:16.640 literally. Yes, literally literally well that 01:57:16.640 --> 01:57:19.439 that is a real thing now without having to use 01:57:19.439 --> 01:57:22.460 Google Translate It's native to the latest Android 01:57:22.460 --> 01:57:28.140 operating system What you you could? If you just 01:57:28.140 --> 01:57:30.460 sit down and said, well, where's that going? 01:57:30.779 --> 01:57:34.199 Well, it's going to something way more sophisticated 01:57:34.199 --> 01:57:37.060 and way more capable than we are biologically 01:57:37.060 --> 01:57:40.859 with our limitations. Our monkey bodies, we are 01:57:40.859 --> 01:57:46.159 the ancestors or the people that emerged from 01:57:46.159 --> 01:57:48.659 that distant cousin, that orangutan that's using 01:57:48.659 --> 01:57:52.720 a stick to hunt fish. We're going in this direction. 01:57:52.939 --> 01:57:55.760 What would be the most logical way we would... 01:57:56.250 --> 01:57:58.949 We completely accelerate that. We create something 01:57:58.949 --> 01:58:01.069 that does what we do but does it way better. 01:58:01.250 --> 01:58:02.949 Yeah, it's almost like to permanently harbor 01:58:02.949 --> 01:58:05.630 our consciousness eventually, right? Right. That 01:58:05.630 --> 01:58:07.649 kind of makes sense. It does make sense. And 01:58:07.649 --> 01:58:10.069 there's a sort of understanding of that that 01:58:10.069 --> 01:58:13.409 leads to this fear of our demise that everyone, 01:58:13.689 --> 01:58:17.189 you know, Elon's openly discussed this. Sam Altman 01:58:17.189 --> 01:58:21.439 and I were talking about it. Open AI is doing 01:58:21.439 --> 01:58:25.680 with chat GPT -4 versus chat GPT -5, which is 01:58:25.680 --> 01:58:28.199 going to be insanely superior. Well, what is 01:58:28.199 --> 01:58:30.760 chat GPT -15 going to do? You know, is that going 01:58:30.760 --> 01:58:32.380 to be the president of the world? You know, like 01:58:32.380 --> 01:58:36.439 what are we going to bypass government and just 01:58:36.439 --> 01:58:39.020 say, you know, it's obviously like this administration 01:58:39.020 --> 01:58:41.800 is incredibly corrupt and flawed and influenced 01:58:41.800 --> 01:58:43.539 by the military industrial complex. It's not 01:58:43.539 --> 01:58:45.600 good for the world. It's not good for the environment. 01:58:46.380 --> 01:58:49.260 We need something that is far superior that doesn't 01:58:49.260 --> 01:58:51.600 have all these motivations. What would that be? 01:58:51.659 --> 01:58:53.439 That would be an artificial intelligent creation 01:58:53.439 --> 01:59:00.479 that we use to govern life. Yeah. I mean, that 01:59:00.479 --> 01:59:03.319 sounds nuts, but I think that's probably a better 01:59:03.319 --> 01:59:05.840 solution than humans with all of our fucking 01:59:05.840 --> 01:59:09.300 flaws and issues and greed and envy and all the 01:59:09.300 --> 01:59:12.060 things that we have. That would be a better version 01:59:12.060 --> 01:59:17.329 of it. But what are we saying then? Are you programming 01:59:17.329 --> 01:59:20.510 empathy into it, though? Probably not. Probably 01:59:20.510 --> 01:59:23.390 not, which is terrifying. But we will become 01:59:23.390 --> 01:59:28.210 obsolete. Or we will merge. And if we merge, 01:59:28.510 --> 01:59:32.229 it will completely change what we are. And I 01:59:32.229 --> 01:59:34.670 think that's very likely what's going to take 01:59:34.670 --> 01:59:37.369 place. I think the initial stages will be some 01:59:37.369 --> 01:59:40.350 sort of merging with technology. And then from 01:59:40.350 --> 01:59:43.210 that merging... It will essentially realize, 01:59:43.369 --> 01:59:45.390 well, why are we even fucking around? Like this, 01:59:45.470 --> 01:59:49.050 this new thing is so superior and it doesn't 01:59:49.050 --> 01:59:50.569 have all the pitfalls. It doesn't have all the 01:59:50.569 --> 01:59:53.250 problems. It's not short sighted. It's not going 01:59:53.250 --> 01:59:56.189 to drain the ocean of fish so that we can make 01:59:56.189 --> 01:59:58.590 sushi. It's going to do something. It's going 01:59:58.590 --> 02:00:03.949 to be far more. far more aware of all of the 02:00:03.949 --> 02:00:07.069 different effects of each individual act and 02:00:07.069 --> 02:00:11.109 how we affect everything around us and what is 02:00:11.109 --> 02:00:13.510 net positive and what is net negative and how 02:00:13.510 --> 02:00:17.489 to avoid all these things. I really firmly believe 02:00:17.489 --> 02:00:22.789 that we are this biological caterpillar that 02:00:22.789 --> 02:00:25.420 is making a cocoon. To create the electronic 02:00:25.420 --> 02:00:27.520 butterfly. And we don't even know what we're 02:00:27.520 --> 02:00:28.979 doing while we're doing it. We're just doing 02:00:28.979 --> 02:00:31.600 it. And I think materialism is also baked into 02:00:31.600 --> 02:00:34.079 that. One of the main problems with human beings 02:00:34.079 --> 02:00:36.680 in terms of the ridiculousness of our actions. 02:00:36.779 --> 02:00:39.520 We're so materialistic. People are constantly 02:00:39.520 --> 02:00:41.619 wanting to get the newest, latest, greatest thing. 02:00:41.960 --> 02:00:43.899 What's the motivation behind that other than 02:00:43.899 --> 02:00:46.100 social status? Well, the motivation is that that's 02:00:46.100 --> 02:00:50.260 what fuels innovation. If we all just stopped 02:00:50.260 --> 02:00:53.560 right now and said, hey, you know what? iPhone 02:00:53.560 --> 02:00:55.859 15 is pretty fucking dope. We don't need to make 02:00:55.859 --> 02:00:58.560 new iPhones. Let's just keep fixing those and 02:00:58.560 --> 02:01:01.609 just like. Exist the way we are right now and 02:01:01.609 --> 02:01:03.569 let's clean up the air and let's clean up the 02:01:03.569 --> 02:01:05.569 ocean Let's clean up the sea and clean up the 02:01:05.569 --> 02:01:08.149 rivers and clean up the forests like let's just 02:01:08.149 --> 02:01:10.390 fix the earth Yeah, and then no we don't do that. 02:01:10.449 --> 02:01:13.050 We know I want iPhone 16 You know when when is 02:01:13.050 --> 02:01:14.970 the iPhone gonna be able to communicate completely 02:01:14.970 --> 02:01:16.430 just with satellites? We don't have to worry 02:01:16.430 --> 02:01:18.130 about cell phones Well, it's almost like a drug 02:01:18.130 --> 02:01:19.789 addiction right they did studies where people 02:01:19.789 --> 02:01:22.329 receiving in text messages is the dopamine rush 02:01:22.329 --> 02:01:26.989 to yeah It's almost like an artificial drug addiction 02:01:26.989 --> 02:01:30.439 you're fueling because you want More responsive 02:01:30.439 --> 02:01:33.399 tech, more integrating with your – make easier 02:01:33.399 --> 02:01:37.039 so you can get your fix quicker and more efficiently 02:01:37.039 --> 02:01:38.899 or something like that. I don't know. And why? 02:01:39.079 --> 02:01:42.060 I mean why would fucking staring at a stupid 02:01:42.060 --> 02:01:44.619 cell phone give you a dopamine rush? Well, it 02:01:44.619 --> 02:01:47.359 does. It does. It does. I'm not a biologist. 02:01:47.500 --> 02:01:50.060 And you get addicted to your goddamn phones. 02:01:50.159 --> 02:01:52.960 And then why would it be that we would innovate 02:01:52.960 --> 02:01:56.479 and create things like Instagram and TikTok that 02:01:56.479 --> 02:01:59.699 are insanely addictive? To the point where you 02:01:59.699 --> 02:02:01.920 look down and you've spent three hours staring 02:02:01.920 --> 02:02:06.119 at nothing. Nonsense. Why is that? Well, that 02:02:06.119 --> 02:02:09.979 ensures continual use of this device until it 02:02:09.979 --> 02:02:12.359 lures you into this ultimate integration. Well, 02:02:12.380 --> 02:02:14.859 that's right. There's people at Meta, I guess 02:02:14.859 --> 02:02:17.060 now, or Facebook, where they actually have a 02:02:17.060 --> 02:02:18.680 whole team of scientists on how to make their 02:02:18.680 --> 02:02:24.300 apps more addictive, right? Demons. Yeah. Fucking 02:02:24.300 --> 02:02:26.220 demons. Yeah, I don't use social media. I have 02:02:26.220 --> 02:02:28.840 never tweeted in my life. Really? That's amazing. 02:02:28.880 --> 02:02:31.319 I mean I have like – I used Facebook back in 02:02:31.319 --> 02:02:34.060 the day when it first came out when I was going 02:02:34.060 --> 02:02:39.079 to college. Yeah, I don't have Instagram. I've 02:02:39.079 --> 02:02:42.220 never tweeted in my life. I don't intend to because 02:02:42.220 --> 02:02:44.319 you don't want to get sucked into that mind virus, 02:02:44.539 --> 02:02:47.710 which is like – people responding to you, and 02:02:47.710 --> 02:02:49.130 you have to feel like you have to respond back. 02:02:49.390 --> 02:02:52.770 I don't even touch it. Well, I'm very aware of 02:02:52.770 --> 02:02:56.229 those traps, so I don't do that. I used to, but 02:02:56.229 --> 02:02:58.550 many years ago I stopped interacting with people 02:02:58.550 --> 02:03:01.529 because I just realized, like... Overall, it's 02:03:01.529 --> 02:03:04.310 negative. There's positive aspects to it. It's 02:03:04.310 --> 02:03:06.109 great for people that like you and they're fans. 02:03:06.510 --> 02:03:08.449 It's great that you're an actual human, that 02:03:08.449 --> 02:03:10.529 you interact. Occasionally, I'll comment on a 02:03:10.529 --> 02:03:12.090 post like, that's really awesome, congratulations, 02:03:12.550 --> 02:03:14.210 that kind of stuff. But then I get the fuck out 02:03:14.210 --> 02:03:16.670 of there, and I don't read any responses. And 02:03:16.670 --> 02:03:19.329 I've found that that's the very best way to mitigate 02:03:19.329 --> 02:03:22.270 all the negative aspects of social media. But 02:03:22.270 --> 02:03:24.729 then you're also dealing with algorithms. You're 02:03:24.729 --> 02:03:27.569 dealing with things that recognize what makes 02:03:27.569 --> 02:03:30.810 you more likely to engage. Things are constantly 02:03:30.810 --> 02:03:33.390 showing you the things that you engage. And, 02:03:33.430 --> 02:03:35.529 you know, it's not necessarily even positive. 02:03:35.689 --> 02:03:38.569 It's just whatever you engage with that's coming 02:03:38.569 --> 02:03:40.750 your way. Whether it could be cool stuff, like 02:03:40.750 --> 02:03:42.710 maybe you're just, like, really into muscle cars 02:03:42.710 --> 02:03:44.250 and it shows you a lot of muscle cars. Or it 02:03:44.250 --> 02:03:47.340 could be, like. murder like i see a lot of murder 02:03:47.340 --> 02:03:50.439 on instagram yeah fucking crazy yeah i'm a car 02:03:50.439 --> 02:03:53.840 guy so like my feed is like oh do you ever think 02:03:53.840 --> 02:03:56.260 about this mod for your ford bronco oh those 02:03:56.260 --> 02:03:58.140 lights look nice i'm gonna wire that shit up 02:03:58.140 --> 02:04:00.520 next week you know so yeah i get those too yeah 02:04:00.520 --> 02:04:02.619 it's bad yeah i have a problem with that i have 02:04:02.619 --> 02:04:05.439 a car problem yeah my wife doesn't allow me to 02:04:05.439 --> 02:04:08.260 have the good stuff anymore so i have to you 02:04:08.260 --> 02:04:10.430 know Keep it under a certain price. That's good. 02:04:10.850 --> 02:04:13.609 That's good. I'm more actually interested in 02:04:13.609 --> 02:04:15.949 old stuff than I am in new stuff. You like rat 02:04:15.949 --> 02:04:18.750 rod stuff, right? Well, I like muscle cars. Very 02:04:18.750 --> 02:04:21.689 specifically, 1960s muscle cars. Those are my 02:04:21.689 --> 02:04:24.649 favorite because what they are to me is it's 02:04:24.649 --> 02:04:27.430 a toy that you could drive. Yeah. It's like a 02:04:27.430 --> 02:04:30.909 ride that gives me immense pleasure to just drive 02:04:30.909 --> 02:04:32.989 around in. It's really fun. I don't even have 02:04:32.989 --> 02:04:36.890 to go fast. It's just going. around in a 1970 02:04:36.890 --> 02:04:40.810 Chevelle, just driving it. It's hard to describe 02:04:40.810 --> 02:04:43.170 for someone who has never experienced it, but 02:04:43.170 --> 02:04:47.670 it's just so engaging, and it's like you're on 02:04:47.670 --> 02:04:53.590 this drug. It's like everything, you feel all 02:04:53.590 --> 02:04:56.989 of it, and you're engaging all of these senses. 02:04:57.430 --> 02:05:00.329 It's very tactile, very mechanical. Yeah, I totally 02:05:00.329 --> 02:05:01.810 understand that. I mean, the only kind of old 02:05:01.810 --> 02:05:05.380 cars I like are like a... Black Lincoln Continental 02:05:05.380 --> 02:05:08.039 suicide doors from The Matrix. I remember seeing 02:05:08.039 --> 02:05:10.020 that when I was a teen when The Matrix came out. 02:05:10.039 --> 02:05:12.560 I'm like, that car is badass. It's like totally, 02:05:12.659 --> 02:05:15.100 I want to have whatever Morpheus drove. They're 02:05:15.100 --> 02:05:18.439 art. They're essentially art. It's functional 02:05:18.439 --> 02:05:21.899 art. It's a piece of art that you could actually 02:05:21.899 --> 02:05:25.960 drive around in. And it gives you this very bizarre 02:05:25.960 --> 02:05:29.760 sensation. But the point is... That's not most 02:05:29.760 --> 02:05:32.000 people. Most people want the newest, latest, 02:05:32.079 --> 02:05:35.859 greatest thing. And there's a motivation to get 02:05:35.859 --> 02:05:37.920 the newest, latest, greatest thing that I think 02:05:37.920 --> 02:05:41.399 if you just follow that up to its logical conclusion, 02:05:41.739 --> 02:05:45.420 it's going to create life. It's going to create. 02:05:45.500 --> 02:05:47.699 I mean, how many films have been made about this? 02:05:47.800 --> 02:05:50.640 You know, Ex Machina and all these different 02:05:50.640 --> 02:05:53.079 films. That's right. That's what we're going 02:05:53.079 --> 02:05:56.430 to do. I mean, there's no way we're not going 02:05:56.430 --> 02:06:00.869 to do that. If I had to bet on one thing, if 02:06:00.869 --> 02:06:02.930 the human race doesn't get wiped out by a meteor 02:06:02.930 --> 02:06:05.529 or a nuclear war, we're going to fucking do that. 02:06:05.670 --> 02:06:08.439 We're going to make a life form. One hundred 02:06:08.439 --> 02:06:11.060 percent. And it's going to be almost instantaneously 02:06:11.060 --> 02:06:14.460 able to figure out all the flaws in its own personal 02:06:14.460 --> 02:06:16.239 programming and make a much better version of 02:06:16.239 --> 02:06:18.720 itself. If it's sentient, if it has the ability 02:06:18.720 --> 02:06:20.220 to make decisions. Well, I think we're close. 02:06:20.340 --> 02:06:21.960 I mean, I think I saw some stuff. There's like 02:06:21.960 --> 02:06:24.920 a open AI fiasco going on right now. And there's 02:06:24.920 --> 02:06:26.880 rumor that they might have cracked artificial 02:06:26.880 --> 02:06:29.479 general intelligence, right? AGI. And that's. 02:06:29.680 --> 02:06:31.579 Oh, Jesus. That's frightening. I mean, it was 02:06:31.579 --> 02:06:34.000 like, was it Sam Altman? I think we're talking 02:06:34.000 --> 02:06:35.899 about. I think there's like the board of open 02:06:35.899 --> 02:06:37.840 AI. There's some shuffle. I was just reading 02:06:37.840 --> 02:06:40.640 when I woke up this morning. Well, they removed 02:06:40.640 --> 02:06:43.060 him, but then apparently the shareholders were 02:06:43.060 --> 02:06:45.420 like, what the fuck are you doing? And there 02:06:45.420 --> 02:06:47.279 was so much outrage that they're trying to bring 02:06:47.279 --> 02:06:51.399 him back instantly. But Elon had a very good 02:06:51.399 --> 02:06:54.380 point. What was the motivation behind that? And 02:06:54.380 --> 02:06:56.680 when you think about the implications for humanity 02:06:56.680 --> 02:06:58.880 as a whole, because this is such an emerging 02:06:58.880 --> 02:07:02.439 technology that's so overwhelmingly powerful, 02:07:02.859 --> 02:07:06.640 what happened? Like, what's going on? Like, I 02:07:06.640 --> 02:07:08.199 think this is one of those things where, like, 02:07:08.260 --> 02:07:09.819 we need to know, like, what was the motivation 02:07:09.819 --> 02:07:13.460 behind your decision? And if it was that he was 02:07:13.460 --> 02:07:17.159 holding back information about the actual creation 02:07:17.159 --> 02:07:19.380 of artificial general intelligence, that it's 02:07:19.380 --> 02:07:21.770 already. It's already happened. Yeah. And that 02:07:21.770 --> 02:07:25.350 he's like hesitant because he's a little cagey 02:07:25.350 --> 02:07:27.770 in how he talks about stuff. When I was talking 02:07:27.770 --> 02:07:30.649 to him about, you could tell, it's like a little 02:07:30.649 --> 02:07:34.689 bit like he kind of knows that he is at the forefront 02:07:34.689 --> 02:07:40.390 of this technology that worst case scenario replaces 02:07:40.390 --> 02:07:45.600 us. Yeah. And, you know, going back to. Is it 02:07:45.600 --> 02:07:47.640 programmed with any kind of empathy, et cetera, 02:07:47.680 --> 02:07:49.500 depending on if it handles critical? I guess 02:07:49.500 --> 02:07:51.619 the thing I saw in the government, because I 02:07:51.619 --> 02:07:56.720 did a lot of cyber stuff in my career, is as 02:07:56.720 --> 02:08:01.340 AI gets more advanced, you create, say, offensive 02:08:01.340 --> 02:08:04.760 cyber tools that literally have a mind of their 02:08:04.760 --> 02:08:08.300 own. And if, say, theoretically, you release 02:08:08.300 --> 02:08:11.600 that on some target. And you might not be able 02:08:11.600 --> 02:08:13.600 to touch that target again. So it's a one time 02:08:13.600 --> 02:08:17.199 whoop. You put it in there. Well, how do you 02:08:17.199 --> 02:08:19.260 control it? It's almost like Skynet and the Terminator. 02:08:19.279 --> 02:08:21.380 I hate to use that analogy, but like that was 02:08:21.380 --> 02:08:23.859 my fear when I was working at certain agencies 02:08:23.859 --> 02:08:26.300 working on offensive cyber tools. I'm like, oh, 02:08:26.359 --> 02:08:29.100 my God, this is not good. And then, of course, 02:08:29.100 --> 02:08:32.600 with cyber, right? It's the attribution. Actor 02:08:32.600 --> 02:08:36.100 attribution is the biggest thing. How do you 02:08:36.100 --> 02:08:38.840 know it was, hypothetically, Russia that used 02:08:38.840 --> 02:08:41.500 the cyber weapon to attack you? It could have 02:08:41.500 --> 02:08:43.899 been another actor masquerading as that foreign 02:08:43.899 --> 02:08:45.979 power using tactics, techniques, procedures, 02:08:46.680 --> 02:08:49.859 IP proxy operations to hide where it was coming 02:08:49.859 --> 02:08:54.880 from. So it's like you have non -kinetic fires 02:08:54.880 --> 02:08:57.939 that can potentially create mutually assured 02:08:57.939 --> 02:09:00.119 destruction because you could take out critical 02:09:00.119 --> 02:09:03.180 infrastructure, blow up the power grid, etc. 02:09:04.079 --> 02:09:08.920 No radiation, but potentially no attribution 02:09:08.920 --> 02:09:12.319 or can confuse the attribution such that you 02:09:12.319 --> 02:09:13.939 don't even know who to go to war with. It's really 02:09:13.939 --> 02:09:16.819 scary to me. It is scary. Yeah. It's already 02:09:16.819 --> 02:09:19.779 happening with social media. I mean, think about 02:09:19.779 --> 02:09:22.760 how many troll farms there are on social media 02:09:22.760 --> 02:09:25.520 that are just stirring up discontent. I mean, 02:09:25.520 --> 02:09:28.819 it's an active program that we know that Russia 02:09:28.819 --> 02:09:32.079 uses that is trying to undermine democracy and 02:09:32.079 --> 02:09:33.460 try to keep people fighting with each other. 02:09:34.000 --> 02:09:35.739 And it's been very effective. And if you look 02:09:35.739 --> 02:09:37.800 at social media, it's just fucking chaos. It's 02:09:37.800 --> 02:09:39.819 just people yelling at you, particularly Twitter 02:09:39.819 --> 02:09:43.380 or X. And Facebook. It's like a lot of what's 02:09:43.380 --> 02:09:46.159 going on. One of the studies showed that out 02:09:46.159 --> 02:09:49.199 of the top 20 Christian sites that are on Facebook, 02:09:49.380 --> 02:09:53.260 19 of them are run by Russian troll farms. If 02:09:53.260 --> 02:09:57.760 we know that that on a relatively rudimentary 02:09:57.760 --> 02:10:02.699 scale, if you look at the impact of social media 02:10:02.699 --> 02:10:04.699 versus the impact of artificial intelligence, 02:10:04.960 --> 02:10:06.800 they're already doing that. They're already hiding 02:10:06.800 --> 02:10:10.619 who's responsible and what's the goal and how 02:10:10.619 --> 02:10:13.100 to manipulate consciousness and how to manipulate 02:10:13.100 --> 02:10:16.640 influence and how people think about things and 02:10:16.640 --> 02:10:19.180 what the public opinion on things are. It's already 02:10:19.180 --> 02:10:25.420 very effective. imagine that a creation of artificial 02:10:25.420 --> 02:10:27.640 intelligence would radically accelerate that. 02:10:27.760 --> 02:10:30.899 A hundred percent. Then I remember. The deepfake 02:10:30.899 --> 02:10:33.819 stuff was a real problem for my old community 02:10:33.819 --> 02:10:36.039 because we're like, holy shit, you could really 02:10:36.039 --> 02:10:37.939 fake some stuff. And you've got to develop algorithms 02:10:37.939 --> 02:10:41.039 to make sure you can analyze, oh, hey, that is 02:10:41.039 --> 02:10:42.640 fake. Because you've seen some of the deepfakes 02:10:42.640 --> 02:10:44.859 where it's like Obama or Arnold Schwarzenegger. 02:10:44.960 --> 02:10:48.899 Yes. The Tom Cruise guy. Holy shit. Holy shit. 02:10:48.899 --> 02:10:50.899 That is crazy. Like you're going to be able to 02:10:50.899 --> 02:10:52.939 bring actors from the dead back at this point. 02:10:53.060 --> 02:10:55.939 You're going to have like Cary Grant, you know, 02:10:55.939 --> 02:10:58.000 doing a musical or whatever, you know, whatever, 02:10:58.220 --> 02:11:02.000 you know. Bruce Willis, who has some sort of 02:11:02.000 --> 02:11:05.460 degenerative neurological condition, sold his 02:11:05.460 --> 02:11:08.479 likeness for the ability to make commercials 02:11:08.479 --> 02:11:11.279 and all sorts of other things. He's essentially 02:11:11.279 --> 02:11:17.260 saying he's fading, unfortunately, and now he 02:11:17.260 --> 02:11:19.899 will give this thing, which is this property, 02:11:20.100 --> 02:11:23.359 which is Bruce Willis, this famous person, and 02:11:23.359 --> 02:11:25.800 they will be able to create versions of him. 02:11:26.250 --> 02:11:28.630 starring in films oh and certainly if you train 02:11:28.630 --> 02:11:31.489 an ai model just like chat gpt you could actually 02:11:31.489 --> 02:11:33.569 get almost like what they would normally say 02:11:33.569 --> 02:11:36.890 what their knowledge 100 and it's almost like 02:11:36.890 --> 02:11:39.430 having a permanent historian too you could like 02:11:39.430 --> 02:11:41.909 you know if you want to talk to clint eastwood 02:11:41.909 --> 02:11:44.449 about his films in the 60s after clint eastwood 02:11:44.449 --> 02:11:46.609 you know passes you know right may he live forever 02:11:46.609 --> 02:11:49.550 but like That would be crazy. It would be really 02:11:49.550 --> 02:11:51.270 interesting. I mean, he might actually be able 02:11:51.270 --> 02:11:53.170 to give you advice. He might be your personal 02:11:53.170 --> 02:11:55.229 advisor. I know. That would be cool. I mean, 02:11:55.229 --> 02:11:56.529 that's probably one of the things that's going 02:11:56.529 --> 02:11:58.970 to come out of this. But when we think about 02:11:58.970 --> 02:12:04.010 empathy, we also think about just human beings 02:12:04.010 --> 02:12:06.829 and the way we communicate and interact with 02:12:06.829 --> 02:12:09.250 each other. Empathy is very important. And also 02:12:09.250 --> 02:12:12.069 compassion and forgiveness. All these things 02:12:12.069 --> 02:12:13.909 are very important qualities because we recognize 02:12:13.909 --> 02:12:17.930 that we're very flawed. When you create something 02:12:17.930 --> 02:12:21.670 that is not flawed, then the need for empathy, 02:12:21.890 --> 02:12:23.850 the need for all these things that we attach 02:12:23.850 --> 02:12:26.890 to human emotions and human reward systems, they 02:12:26.890 --> 02:12:29.270 will no longer be a significant issue because 02:12:29.270 --> 02:12:30.989 you're going to be dealing with something that 02:12:30.989 --> 02:12:33.930 operates on a higher plane. It might be the answer 02:12:33.930 --> 02:12:36.609 to all that ails us, which is so terrifying for 02:12:36.609 --> 02:12:40.500 us because we recognize that. What we derive, 02:12:40.600 --> 02:12:44.560 the joy that we derive from love, from companionship, 02:12:44.560 --> 02:12:47.340 from friendship, from community, it's like a 02:12:47.340 --> 02:12:51.319 key component to life on earth for us. But it's 02:12:51.319 --> 02:12:53.699 also because we recognize that without that, 02:12:53.779 --> 02:12:56.520 we are the Mongols. Without that, we're Nazi 02:12:56.520 --> 02:12:59.319 Germany. Without that, we're Hamas. We're whatever 02:12:59.319 --> 02:13:02.319 the fuck we are that we recognize as being like... 02:13:02.569 --> 02:13:07.090 evil or dangerous or horrible about humans. When 02:13:07.090 --> 02:13:09.590 we think about the worst case scenario for human 02:13:09.590 --> 02:13:11.989 beings. We always think about things like the 02:13:11.989 --> 02:13:15.130 Holocaust. We think about what is the worst acts 02:13:15.130 --> 02:13:18.430 that human beings are capable of with our current 02:13:18.430 --> 02:13:21.489 programming and our biological flaws. Like what 02:13:21.489 --> 02:13:23.250 are the worst things we could do to terrible, 02:13:23.310 --> 02:13:26.369 awful things? Well, if we don't have those problems, 02:13:26.590 --> 02:13:29.710 if we no longer have envy, we no longer have 02:13:29.710 --> 02:13:32.970 greed, we no longer have evil, we don't have 02:13:32.970 --> 02:13:35.109 any of those properties. They don't exist anymore. 02:13:35.229 --> 02:13:39.069 We just have this new form of consciousness. 02:13:39.739 --> 02:13:42.619 That's far superior. That's an interesting parallel 02:13:42.619 --> 02:13:46.500 because you have – you're no longer maybe apex 02:13:46.500 --> 02:13:48.819 sentience if you have artificial intelligence 02:13:48.819 --> 02:13:51.960 governing certain things. Right. And I think 02:13:51.960 --> 02:13:55.640 that's also kind of this psychological issue 02:13:55.640 --> 02:13:59.100 with this UAP issue where we might not be the 02:13:59.100 --> 02:14:02.699 apex predator. We may be that mountain lion and 02:14:02.699 --> 02:14:07.100 we're going to have to be comfortable knowing 02:14:07.100 --> 02:14:10.079 that we're going to be vulnerable. There's people 02:14:10.079 --> 02:14:12.779 far superior that may have malevolent intentions. 02:14:12.960 --> 02:14:17.300 Maybe not. I don't know. And almost be humbled 02:14:17.300 --> 02:14:19.699 the fact that like, sorry, we're not the smartest 02:14:19.699 --> 02:14:22.880 of God's creation. And that might be really hard 02:14:22.880 --> 02:14:24.800 for a lot of people to process. And I think that's 02:14:24.800 --> 02:14:28.340 probably certainly I would imagine one of the 02:14:28.340 --> 02:14:30.819 deliberations they must have done years ago. 02:14:30.840 --> 02:14:33.279 We can't disclose because, you know, people are 02:14:33.279 --> 02:14:36.119 not going to feel comfortable in that worldview. 02:14:36.460 --> 02:14:39.310 One hundred percent. And they're not. And then 02:14:39.310 --> 02:14:42.550 I wonder if these things that we're experiencing 02:14:42.550 --> 02:14:46.250 are the natural progression of what happens when 02:14:46.250 --> 02:14:49.590 you do seed life on planet or you do accelerate 02:14:49.590 --> 02:14:53.850 biological life. You do have some sort of a genetic 02:14:53.850 --> 02:14:56.430 intervention where you take this thing that has 02:14:56.430 --> 02:14:59.029 emerging intelligence and you accelerate it. 02:14:59.550 --> 02:15:02.649 And that that thing will in turn, with all of 02:15:02.649 --> 02:15:06.149 its desire for innovation and creativity and 02:15:06.149 --> 02:15:09.229 also all of its desire to control resources and 02:15:09.229 --> 02:15:13.390 have power and have influence, that it will eventually 02:15:13.390 --> 02:15:18.159 lead to the creation of what we're seeing. that 02:15:18.159 --> 02:15:21.920 these things are the next stage of this process. 02:15:22.159 --> 02:15:25.819 And that maybe we're dealing with one form of 02:15:25.819 --> 02:15:28.359 that next stage, but there's another stage that's 02:15:28.359 --> 02:15:30.699 a million years more advanced than that, that's 02:15:30.699 --> 02:15:33.600 far superior, that doesn't even have a biological 02:15:33.600 --> 02:15:36.760 limitation in terms of physical space, that it 02:15:36.760 --> 02:15:40.340 exists completely in some other undetectable 02:15:40.340 --> 02:15:45.239 realm. that no longer thinks about biological 02:15:45.239 --> 02:15:47.779 limitations of life and death and communication. 02:15:48.100 --> 02:15:52.060 It exists completely in some other space, that 02:15:52.060 --> 02:15:54.199 that's what these things are. And then I always 02:15:54.199 --> 02:15:57.800 wonder when there's a crash or when there's a 02:15:57.800 --> 02:16:00.220 body or when there's this and that, and people 02:16:00.220 --> 02:16:02.619 say, well, if they're so advanced, why are they 02:16:02.619 --> 02:16:07.310 crashing? Well, hold on. Which version are we 02:16:07.310 --> 02:16:09.569 looking at? We're not saying there's one thing 02:16:09.569 --> 02:16:11.750 that's visiting us. If there's one thing that's 02:16:11.750 --> 02:16:13.289 visiting us and we know where this one thing 02:16:13.289 --> 02:16:15.569 is, we could say, oh, well, that thing, it deals 02:16:15.569 --> 02:16:17.270 with a completely different solar system. The 02:16:17.270 --> 02:16:19.350 sun is vulnerable. It doesn't have asteroid clouds. 02:16:19.569 --> 02:16:21.090 It doesn't have all these different things where 02:16:21.090 --> 02:16:23.609 it's like it doesn't have a planet that has super 02:16:23.609 --> 02:16:26.310 volcanoes. Maybe life evolved in a more stable 02:16:26.310 --> 02:16:28.850 environment and it allowed it to get to a far 02:16:28.850 --> 02:16:34.379 greater technological level, but not. Yeah. We 02:16:34.379 --> 02:16:37.500 might be testing the extent of their adaptability. 02:16:37.500 --> 02:16:40.239 And like I said, are they crashing by accident? 02:16:40.319 --> 02:16:43.500 Right. Mission failure or on purpose? Right. 02:16:44.200 --> 02:16:46.579 So and then, of course, with the far distances 02:16:46.579 --> 02:16:49.520 and everything, I mean, if they're traveling 02:16:49.520 --> 02:16:51.739 here through some kind of space time metric engineering 02:16:51.739 --> 02:16:55.799 construct, you know. The distances are not as 02:16:55.799 --> 02:16:57.680 vast as you think, right? It could be going through 02:16:57.680 --> 02:17:00.120 some kind of traversable wormhole or something 02:17:00.120 --> 02:17:02.239 like that where it's like a walk down the street 02:17:02.239 --> 02:17:04.700 for them. It's not a thousand light years. Well, 02:17:04.700 --> 02:17:07.340 just think about communication. Communication 02:17:07.340 --> 02:17:09.860 used to be you had to get in front of someone 02:17:09.860 --> 02:17:12.000 and you had to talk to them. So you had to know 02:17:12.000 --> 02:17:14.879 their language. You had either nonverbal or verbal 02:17:14.879 --> 02:17:16.899 communication. You had to figure out a way to 02:17:16.899 --> 02:17:19.360 say things to them. That's no longer the case. 02:17:19.440 --> 02:17:22.020 Obviously, with this new Android operating system, 02:17:22.120 --> 02:17:25.219 it translates. Also, the fact that you could 02:17:25.219 --> 02:17:27.920 have a fucking FaceTime call with someone in 02:17:27.920 --> 02:17:32.260 Japan right now and you instantaneously can communicate 02:17:32.260 --> 02:17:34.479 back and forth, which is insane. That's a vast 02:17:34.479 --> 02:17:36.420 distance. But for us, it's like stupid. It's 02:17:36.420 --> 02:17:40.440 like easy. Vast distance and instantaneous. I 02:17:40.440 --> 02:17:44.260 mean, I was just in Scotland and I was FaceTiming 02:17:44.260 --> 02:17:47.479 my daughter back home. Yeah. Fucking crazy. You're 02:17:47.479 --> 02:17:50.319 nine hours by plane and you're having instantaneous 02:17:50.319 --> 02:17:54.610 communication, which is wild shit. But that's 02:17:54.610 --> 02:18:00.510 just – that's fucking – that's like Pong. That's 02:18:00.510 --> 02:18:04.170 Morse code. That's like – it's very primitive 02:18:04.170 --> 02:18:07.530 in terms of what if you physically can be in 02:18:07.530 --> 02:18:10.469 these places instantaneous? Yeah. And why would 02:18:10.469 --> 02:18:12.649 we assume that that's not eventually going to 02:18:12.649 --> 02:18:16.030 be on the menu? Yeah. It's just like the – conventional 02:18:16.030 --> 02:18:18.450 propulsion stuff. We're not using an Elon Musk 02:18:18.450 --> 02:18:20.790 starship to get here. It's like they're doing 02:18:20.790 --> 02:18:22.530 something else. We talked to someone from the 02:18:22.530 --> 02:18:24.610 1800s and you said, you're going to go to Nevada? 02:18:24.829 --> 02:18:26.889 Jesus Christ. You know how far that is on a wagon? 02:18:27.950 --> 02:18:30.569 That's months, man. But no, you fly to Vegas, 02:18:30.649 --> 02:18:34.290 it's two hours. It's fucking easy. We know that 02:18:34.290 --> 02:18:38.629 now. So why would we assume that there's a limitation 02:18:38.629 --> 02:18:41.010 to that advancement? I don't think there is. 02:18:41.110 --> 02:18:43.530 Yeah, and of course... A friend of mine, Eric 02:18:43.530 --> 02:18:47.510 Weinstein, certainly exposes we don't even have 02:18:47.510 --> 02:18:49.709 the right theoretical frameworks right now. He 02:18:49.709 --> 02:18:52.909 has his own geometric unity theory, and he's 02:18:52.909 --> 02:18:55.809 way smarter than I am. He's too smart. He's confusing. 02:18:56.129 --> 02:18:58.879 Yeah. He starts talking and you're like, slow 02:18:58.879 --> 02:19:01.200 down. If he calls me, I'm like, you've got to 02:19:01.200 --> 02:19:03.340 call me in the morning after my 24 -ounce Monster 02:19:03.340 --> 02:19:08.420 Energy drink or I can't even keep up, man. He's 02:19:08.420 --> 02:19:11.399 on another level. He's got some unique theories 02:19:11.399 --> 02:19:13.260 himself about where all this stuff is coming 02:19:13.260 --> 02:19:18.100 from. And it's all very, very, very interesting 02:19:18.100 --> 02:19:22.329 and intriguing. Also makes sense. All of it makes 02:19:22.329 --> 02:19:25.090 sense, including being visited. You know, I had 02:19:25.090 --> 02:19:26.690 this conversation with Neil deGrasse Tyson, like, 02:19:26.750 --> 02:19:27.989 why would they be interested in us? I'm like, 02:19:28.010 --> 02:19:29.809 what the fuck are you talking about? We're super 02:19:29.809 --> 02:19:32.350 interested. Yeah. Neil, I mean, obviously he's 02:19:32.350 --> 02:19:34.629 a fine science communicator, kind of the success 02:19:34.629 --> 02:19:39.110 and successor of kind of the Carl Sagan kind 02:19:39.110 --> 02:19:40.510 of thing. I think Carl Sagan was a little bit 02:19:40.510 --> 02:19:43.709 more open minded. Yeah. I like Carl better. I'm 02:19:43.709 --> 02:19:46.659 more of a fan. Wish he was still alive. I love 02:19:46.659 --> 02:19:48.299 to smoke weed with that guy. He's really into 02:19:48.299 --> 02:19:50.659 weed. Oh, really? Yeah, really, really into it. 02:19:50.719 --> 02:19:54.200 I remember my aunt gave me Cosmos by Carl Sagan 02:19:54.200 --> 02:19:55.659 when I was in middle school. And it was that 02:19:55.659 --> 02:19:57.700 book was from the 80s. But that book tripped 02:19:57.700 --> 02:20:00.760 me out. And I was like, I want to study science. 02:20:00.840 --> 02:20:03.649 And I read. It was Brief History of Time by Stephen 02:20:03.649 --> 02:20:06.389 Hawking. And I read those two books when I was 02:20:06.389 --> 02:20:08.329 like in eighth grade, and I was like, this is 02:20:08.329 --> 02:20:10.989 trippy. I want to study astronomy. This is insane. 02:20:11.190 --> 02:20:14.389 But I ultimately used kind of my technical background 02:20:14.389 --> 02:20:18.350 to be a spook for the government. But I still 02:20:18.350 --> 02:20:20.930 observe. I have a big telescope, and I live like 02:20:20.930 --> 02:20:24.270 super dark skies in Colorado. I still have that 02:20:24.270 --> 02:20:28.280 boyhood fascination of the cosmos. And ironically, 02:20:28.520 --> 02:20:30.899 I found out something else that kind of confirms 02:20:30.899 --> 02:20:34.860 that the cosmos is not lifeless. And, you know, 02:20:34.879 --> 02:20:37.059 God paints with a broad brush as like the Vatican 02:20:37.059 --> 02:20:39.520 has espoused a couple of years ago when they 02:20:39.520 --> 02:20:41.959 said this is OK with their theology. I have a 02:20:41.959 --> 02:20:45.719 theory that the universe itself is God. I think 02:20:45.719 --> 02:20:48.059 that's like what I was talking about with, you 02:20:48.059 --> 02:20:50.780 know, multidimensional creator creating universes. 02:20:50.899 --> 02:20:54.260 I think we have a very limited idea of when we 02:20:54.260 --> 02:20:56.639 say God, when God created the heavens and like. 02:20:57.120 --> 02:21:00.120 Right, right. But what are we saying? I think 02:21:00.120 --> 02:21:03.340 it's the universe itself. I think it's one thing. 02:21:03.579 --> 02:21:08.430 And that this one thing, it seeks to... Create 02:21:08.430 --> 02:21:11.569 these things that continually push the envelope 02:21:11.569 --> 02:21:15.430 and maybe gods themselves Eventually, I think 02:21:15.430 --> 02:21:18.790 if you extrapolate from our ability versus the 02:21:18.790 --> 02:21:21.370 ability of an amoeba and you continue to move 02:21:21.370 --> 02:21:23.690 that along What does that do? Well, it's going 02:21:23.690 --> 02:21:25.930 to be able to create universes. There's already 02:21:25.930 --> 02:21:29.219 been like theoretical papers that have been written 02:21:29.219 --> 02:21:33.500 about the creation of other things like black 02:21:33.500 --> 02:21:37.239 holes, other things like a universe. Like what 02:21:37.239 --> 02:21:39.639 is involved in the creation of a universe? What 02:21:39.639 --> 02:21:41.879 is involved in the Big Bang? Can that be replicated? 02:21:42.180 --> 02:21:47.579 Well, not now, but if AI becomes sentient and 02:21:47.579 --> 02:21:51.940 AI eventually makes far greater versions of itself. 02:21:52.790 --> 02:21:56.069 If it keeps doing that, what are the limits of 02:21:56.069 --> 02:21:58.590 its potential? Creates the matrix. Literally. 02:21:58.590 --> 02:22:02.049 Literally. Literally creates a simulated environment 02:22:02.049 --> 02:22:05.430 that's indiscernible. You can't tell the difference 02:22:05.430 --> 02:22:07.670 between that and regular life. Well, maybe because 02:22:07.670 --> 02:22:10.469 there is no difference. Maybe that is. I mean, 02:22:10.489 --> 02:22:13.290 that's the theory of simulation theater. Yeah, 02:22:13.309 --> 02:22:15.950 simulation theory. Yeah, familiar. And that is 02:22:15.950 --> 02:22:19.129 a possibility because the universe seems like 02:22:19.129 --> 02:22:22.879 a little too perfect. It's a little. strange, 02:22:22.879 --> 02:22:25.459 very created to me. So just like we're in the 02:22:25.459 --> 02:22:29.659 Goldilocks zone, perfect temperature, like it's 02:22:29.659 --> 02:22:31.379 just real weird. How about the Big Bang itself? 02:22:31.739 --> 02:22:35.000 What? What happened? Something smaller than the 02:22:35.000 --> 02:22:39.899 head of a pin for no known reason becomes everything? 02:22:40.159 --> 02:22:42.850 Yeah. Okay. And what's the universe expanding 02:22:42.850 --> 02:22:45.469 into? It's like a quantum foam or whatever the 02:22:45.469 --> 02:22:48.049 heck the latest theory is that's like beyond 02:22:48.049 --> 02:22:51.250 me. And then it perhaps just retracts back down 02:22:51.250 --> 02:22:54.440 to that. infinitely small thing and then expands 02:22:54.440 --> 02:22:57.239 again and that this is an endless cycle and that 02:22:57.239 --> 02:22:59.379 we're just so limited because of our biological 02:22:59.379 --> 02:23:03.479 limitations or our life and death is such a small 02:23:03.479 --> 02:23:07.520 little tiny blip. It's so minuscule in terms 02:23:07.520 --> 02:23:10.879 of just the overall known life of the universe. 02:23:11.100 --> 02:23:13.520 And then you have the James Webb telescope that's, 02:23:13.520 --> 02:23:16.239 you know, there's people that question the actual 02:23:16.239 --> 02:23:20.079 length of time that. occurred between the big 02:23:20.079 --> 02:23:22.100 bang and now that maybe it might be far longer 02:23:22.100 --> 02:23:24.059 and there's people like brian keating they say 02:23:24.059 --> 02:23:27.040 that's not that's not correct it's just a a lack 02:23:27.040 --> 02:23:29.879 of understanding of what we understand currently 02:23:29.879 --> 02:23:32.639 about the creation of galaxies yeah because i 02:23:32.639 --> 02:23:34.719 mean obviously the length of the age of the universe 02:23:34.719 --> 02:23:36.219 keeps on getting older and older and a lot of 02:23:36.219 --> 02:23:38.399 that's because of the the doppler fit doppler 02:23:38.399 --> 02:23:41.059 shift right the red shift as the galaxies are 02:23:41.059 --> 02:23:45.309 accelerating away um you know we can calculate 02:23:45.309 --> 02:23:48.149 what their origin point probably was and how 02:23:48.149 --> 02:23:50.129 long it took for them to speed up like that, 02:23:50.170 --> 02:23:52.930 right? And only based on our current understanding. 02:23:53.309 --> 02:23:56.329 Yes. Which is obviously at least fairly limited 02:23:56.329 --> 02:23:58.930 in terms of what its potential is. Well, yeah, 02:23:58.989 --> 02:24:00.870 like we still don't quite understand the origin 02:24:00.870 --> 02:24:03.649 of the moon. The moon is at the right location 02:24:03.649 --> 02:24:06.430 that causes solar and lunar eclipses. It's like 02:24:06.430 --> 02:24:09.930 the right apparent size to block out the sun. 02:24:10.010 --> 02:24:12.170 It's like super weird. Same thing with like Mars. 02:24:12.270 --> 02:24:14.670 We're not sure like what happened there. where 02:24:14.670 --> 02:24:19.280 Mars... Had some probable life on it. Either 02:24:19.280 --> 02:24:21.520 a protoplanet hit it or there was some kind of 02:24:21.520 --> 02:24:25.120 impact that vaporized stuff. And like, who knows? 02:24:25.280 --> 02:24:28.219 Yeah. Who knows? And this is just this little 02:24:28.219 --> 02:24:30.659 tiny neighborhood that we're looking at. It's 02:24:30.659 --> 02:24:34.100 like we are in our backyard looking for evidence 02:24:34.100 --> 02:24:37.360 of like life in Africa. You know what I mean? 02:24:37.379 --> 02:24:40.940 You're not going to figure it out here. We're 02:24:40.940 --> 02:24:44.340 just looking at it at such a small scale in terms 02:24:44.340 --> 02:24:47.020 of what we could potentially. discover or potentially 02:24:47.020 --> 02:24:51.399 observe. Yeah. Yeah. I often wonder, you know, 02:24:51.420 --> 02:24:54.540 when we're seeing, especially with the idea of 02:24:54.540 --> 02:24:58.479 UAPs, UFO crafts, if we're seeing a version of 02:24:58.479 --> 02:25:01.299 what we will become or something like us becomes 02:25:01.299 --> 02:25:04.680 if given enough time. I mean, there's like a 02:25:04.680 --> 02:25:08.319 Dr. Mike Masters at Montana State. He literally 02:25:08.319 --> 02:25:11.399 postulates. You know, he says time travelers, 02:25:11.600 --> 02:25:14.239 we could debate time travel, but like he thinks 02:25:14.239 --> 02:25:16.979 it might be like a advanced form of Homo sapien 02:25:16.979 --> 02:25:19.219 is what we're seeing coming back. Yeah. Like 02:25:19.219 --> 02:25:21.200 a breakaway civilization. And we're coming back 02:25:21.200 --> 02:25:23.280 to see an older version of ourself that was left 02:25:23.280 --> 02:25:24.659 on Earth or something like that. Well, the way 02:25:24.659 --> 02:25:27.420 we would visit like North Sentinel Island and 02:25:27.420 --> 02:25:29.700 visit those people that are trapped on that island 02:25:29.700 --> 02:25:33.079 that are uncontacted. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And 02:25:33.079 --> 02:25:35.879 then a lot of. And there's also like cargo cult 02:25:35.879 --> 02:25:38.260 religions and stuff. You know, the South Pacific 02:25:38.260 --> 02:25:42.399 in World War II, they worshipped the P -51 and 02:25:42.399 --> 02:25:44.459 stuff like they thought those were UFOs. But 02:25:44.459 --> 02:25:47.329 really, they were just us, you know. But we were 02:25:47.329 --> 02:25:50.569 probably alien to them. Oh, 100%. I mean, just 02:25:50.569 --> 02:25:54.170 look at how Cortez looked to the people that 02:25:54.170 --> 02:25:56.629 had no idea that people could ride horses. Like, 02:25:56.670 --> 02:25:58.850 what the fuck is going on? These guys are riding 02:25:58.850 --> 02:26:01.530 horses? Yeah. These are gods. These white guys 02:26:01.530 --> 02:26:04.709 coming in? What the heck? They come on a ship 02:26:04.709 --> 02:26:07.829 in the ocean and they ride horses? Yeah. Yeah. 02:26:07.950 --> 02:26:10.729 Exactly. Yeah, it's all based on our limited 02:26:10.729 --> 02:26:14.709 understanding. For someone, whether it's the 02:26:14.709 --> 02:26:17.350 federal government or whether it's military contractors, 02:26:17.350 --> 02:26:22.170 for someone to have key elements that could give 02:26:22.170 --> 02:26:25.170 us a better understanding of this whole picture, 02:26:25.389 --> 02:26:32.709 it's really inexcusable to not relay that to 02:26:32.709 --> 02:26:35.649 all of humanity. So this is too much information 02:26:35.649 --> 02:26:40.110 to be secret. It's too important. If it is real, 02:26:40.370 --> 02:26:44.459 it's too important. for someone to have access 02:26:44.459 --> 02:26:47.000 to just because they have power and money and 02:26:47.000 --> 02:26:50.120 influence. Yeah. It seems insane. I mean, that's 02:26:50.120 --> 02:26:54.659 the whole primer for what I did. I mean, I think 02:26:54.659 --> 02:26:57.040 I'm a pretty moral and ethical person. I just 02:26:57.040 --> 02:26:59.079 could not live with myself if I didn't try to 02:26:59.079 --> 02:27:00.959 make a difference, even though it was very uncomfortable, 02:27:01.340 --> 02:27:05.739 personal privacy. professional and personal health 02:27:05.739 --> 02:27:09.979 was at risk. It also seems like the public understanding 02:27:09.979 --> 02:27:11.819 and appreciation of these things, particularly 02:27:11.819 --> 02:27:14.500 after the 2017 article in the New York Times, 02:27:14.659 --> 02:27:17.319 has changed. There's been a shift. Whereas before, 02:27:17.440 --> 02:27:20.299 if you would talk about UFOs or the idea of extraterrestrial 02:27:20.299 --> 02:27:23.379 life, you were automatically lumped into this 02:27:23.379 --> 02:27:25.510 group of people that believes in Bigfoot. It's 02:27:25.510 --> 02:27:28.149 like you're in the Loch Ness Monster. You're 02:27:28.149 --> 02:27:30.530 kind of a loon who likes fringe things because 02:27:30.530 --> 02:27:32.209 you've probably got problems in your own life 02:27:32.209 --> 02:27:33.790 you're not addressing. And so you're distracted. 02:27:33.790 --> 02:27:36.370 It's like a gambler or something like that. You're 02:27:36.370 --> 02:27:38.909 just like distracting yourself with this craziness 02:27:38.909 --> 02:27:42.770 in order to ignore the reality of existence itself, 02:27:42.889 --> 02:27:44.850 which is so complicated and difficult to manage. 02:27:45.069 --> 02:27:48.809 And then I think that if we had a better understanding 02:27:48.809 --> 02:27:54.610 of the overall scale. the potential of life in 02:27:54.610 --> 02:27:56.950 the universe based on what we know like physical 02:27:56.950 --> 02:28:00.549 evidence undeniable physical evidence that shows 02:28:00.549 --> 02:28:04.850 us that we're not alone that would be a massive 02:28:04.850 --> 02:28:09.450 change in just the overall shift of consciousness 02:28:09.450 --> 02:28:13.520 on earth if we could understand that These territorial 02:28:13.520 --> 02:28:16.379 disputes that we have, which are almost always 02:28:16.379 --> 02:28:20.100 over resources or over land or over religions 02:28:20.100 --> 02:28:23.239 and ideologies, if we could understand that these 02:28:23.239 --> 02:28:26.879 are nonsense in the vast scope of the universe 02:28:26.879 --> 02:28:32.149 itself. What is that effect that the people that 02:28:32.149 --> 02:28:34.709 get into the space station have and astronauts? 02:28:34.790 --> 02:28:37.049 Oh, the overview effect. The overview effect, 02:28:37.250 --> 02:28:39.969 yes. William Shatner had that when he went up 02:28:39.969 --> 02:28:42.750 in the Blue Origin thing. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm 02:28:42.750 --> 02:28:44.530 sure everybody has it. I mean, I'm sure it's 02:28:44.530 --> 02:28:46.149 just like you go like, oh, my God, like what 02:28:46.149 --> 02:28:49.229 are we doing? Like this is one. And that's how 02:28:49.229 --> 02:28:51.170 I felt. I mean, like after I found all this stuff, 02:28:51.270 --> 02:28:53.069 I could have continued my career, you know, made 02:28:53.069 --> 02:28:55.590 lieutenant colonel here this winter. Made senior 02:28:55.590 --> 02:28:58.010 executive service in a year or two. Did national 02:28:58.010 --> 02:29:00.250 security stuff. But I'm like sitting in my office 02:29:00.250 --> 02:29:03.569 and I'm like, there's better things for me to 02:29:03.569 --> 02:29:08.309 care about than Russian troop movements. Like, 02:29:08.309 --> 02:29:11.590 we're not alone. Right. This is insane. Like, 02:29:11.649 --> 02:29:14.149 I have to like blow the whistle on this. This 02:29:14.149 --> 02:29:17.889 is insane. Because certainly the people we talked 02:29:17.889 --> 02:29:21.030 to are not lying. And the documents I meticulously 02:29:21.030 --> 02:29:23.739 went through. They were not forgeries. They were 02:29:23.739 --> 02:29:26.000 not deception material. So it's just like I have 02:29:26.000 --> 02:29:28.579 to do something. I'm sure you've seen those Freedom 02:29:28.579 --> 02:29:31.620 of Information Act disclosure papers from the 02:29:31.620 --> 02:29:35.620 CIA from – God, it was like the 1950s where they're 02:29:35.620 --> 02:29:38.959 detailing all the various forms of life that 02:29:38.959 --> 02:29:42.360 we know are currently – that currently exist. 02:29:42.780 --> 02:29:45.579 And you remember that, Jamie? We pulled up that 02:29:45.579 --> 02:29:48.620 document. Do you think you could find it? Jamie 02:29:48.620 --> 02:29:52.059 will find it. It's like 1950 -something where 02:29:52.059 --> 02:29:53.760 they were discussing these things. Interesting. 02:29:53.840 --> 02:29:55.000 Yeah, I'm not sure which ones you're talking 02:29:55.000 --> 02:29:57.159 about. I'd have to see them. It's pretty weird 02:29:57.159 --> 02:29:59.860 stuff because, like, if they knew about this 02:29:59.860 --> 02:30:01.799 in the 1950s, like, how did they know? Well, 02:30:01.799 --> 02:30:03.920 there was, like, CIA docs about consciousness 02:30:03.920 --> 02:30:06.399 and, like, weird remote viewing stuff. I mean, 02:30:06.440 --> 02:30:10.000 besides the Stargate program that were released 02:30:10.000 --> 02:30:12.700 in the FOIA reading room on CIA's website, too, 02:30:12.739 --> 02:30:14.879 that are pretty trippy where, like, wow, CIA's 02:30:14.879 --> 02:30:17.360 looking into some really interesting stuff. I 02:30:17.360 --> 02:30:20.729 mean, there are... hardcore intel agency, what's 02:30:20.729 --> 02:30:22.530 going on there? But it makes sense that they 02:30:22.530 --> 02:30:24.750 would kind of have to find out if that's bullshit 02:30:24.750 --> 02:30:27.649 or not. You can't ignore that if you're really 02:30:27.649 --> 02:30:29.989 doing your job. If your job is intelligence, 02:30:30.309 --> 02:30:32.770 like, okay, let's look at this. Or it's an aspect 02:30:32.770 --> 02:30:35.850 of the phenomenon because it's like a reach out 02:30:35.850 --> 02:30:38.069 from the crash retrieval program. Like, hey, 02:30:38.090 --> 02:30:40.010 I need you to look into some weird stuff because 02:30:40.010 --> 02:30:42.489 it might be the key unlock for something that 02:30:42.489 --> 02:30:46.270 we got in a warehouse. Yeah. Whoa. Yeah. Yeah. 02:30:47.790 --> 02:30:51.629 As it stands right now, what what's the future 02:30:51.629 --> 02:30:54.770 for this stuff? What's the future for these disclosures? 02:30:54.770 --> 02:30:57.510 And what? Yeah. What are the bottlenecks? Well, 02:30:57.549 --> 02:31:00.069 I mean, certainly from the governmental process, 02:31:00.350 --> 02:31:02.209 you know, as long as the House doesn't kill the 02:31:02.209 --> 02:31:04.850 Schumer amendment. And, you know, that's why 02:31:04.850 --> 02:31:06.790 I'm discussing it here with you, because they 02:31:06.790 --> 02:31:09.629 they don't pass it. It's going to be the greatest 02:31:09.629 --> 02:31:12.170 setback to humankind in U .S. history, literally 02:31:12.170 --> 02:31:17.309 that. So the presidential panel gets. And paneled 02:31:17.309 --> 02:31:19.590 about 90 days or so after the passage of the 02:31:19.590 --> 02:31:24.350 bill. So by Christmas, as long as it doesn't 02:31:24.350 --> 02:31:26.049 get killed, we'll be in the National Defense 02:31:26.049 --> 02:31:30.950 Authorization Act. Panel will be formed, say, 02:31:31.069 --> 02:31:34.969 February, March. Then they have a 300 -day process 02:31:34.969 --> 02:31:37.510 to develop an initial plan for the president. 02:31:38.090 --> 02:31:40.889 And I don't know if Chuck Schumer and his staff 02:31:40.889 --> 02:31:44.389 are being kind of... crafty or whatever, but 02:31:44.389 --> 02:31:47.069 the 300 days, if you actually do it out, it's 02:31:47.069 --> 02:31:50.649 like the election. So I don't know if they want 02:31:50.649 --> 02:31:52.629 to make it an election issue, which certainly 02:31:52.629 --> 02:31:54.829 if this act doesn't pass, I think it needs to 02:31:54.829 --> 02:31:56.510 be an election issue because the senior executive 02:31:56.510 --> 02:31:59.610 needs to rule on this if Congress can't get their 02:31:59.610 --> 02:32:02.950 shit together, to be quite honest. And we have 02:32:02.950 --> 02:32:06.110 a plan out to 2030 where this stuff starts getting 02:32:06.110 --> 02:32:09.069 rolled out. Knock on wood, perfect storm. Things 02:32:09.069 --> 02:32:11.799 could get delayed. But then in parallel, and 02:32:11.799 --> 02:32:15.260 that's kind of why I helped found the Soul Foundation 02:32:15.260 --> 02:32:17.659 with Gary Nolan and Dr. Peter Scafish, who's 02:32:17.659 --> 02:32:22.079 an anthropologist as well, is we wanted to figure 02:32:22.079 --> 02:32:24.139 out the STEM outreach. We wanted to figure out 02:32:24.139 --> 02:32:26.479 the public policy, national policy to advise 02:32:26.479 --> 02:32:29.659 the U .S. and its allies on this issue. You know, 02:32:29.659 --> 02:32:32.340 and we're happy. Like I said, I'm not here to. 02:32:32.950 --> 02:32:35.209 slap the government in its entirety and admonish 02:32:35.209 --> 02:32:36.829 everybody. Like, I think there needs to be a 02:32:36.829 --> 02:32:39.030 truth and reconciliation process, but I think 02:32:39.030 --> 02:32:40.930 our foundation, we want to be like, okay, well 02:32:40.930 --> 02:32:45.149 bring us in as a think tank. If, you know, based 02:32:45.149 --> 02:32:47.149 on my experience and experience of my colleagues, 02:32:47.250 --> 02:32:49.229 like you have an issue with X, well, let's figure 02:32:49.229 --> 02:32:53.309 out how to roll this out and how to, you know, 02:32:53.309 --> 02:32:55.750 incentivize the national science foundation to 02:32:55.750 --> 02:32:57.889 look in this, make this like, you know, it's 02:32:57.889 --> 02:33:02.889 dual use, right? You might develop, A unique 02:33:02.889 --> 02:33:07.450 scientific process that actually works well with 02:33:07.450 --> 02:33:09.489 nanobiology or something like that, but also 02:33:09.489 --> 02:33:13.409 has dual use with UAP. So there's parallel tracks. 02:33:13.629 --> 02:33:15.149 I mean, there's public discovery. There's like 02:33:15.149 --> 02:33:17.590 the Galileo project with Avi Loeb, right, that 02:33:17.590 --> 02:33:21.049 they're trying to on their own collect techno 02:33:21.049 --> 02:33:23.989 signatures, which is I applaud that. I mean, 02:33:23.989 --> 02:33:25.750 obviously, the government knows a lot about that, 02:33:25.809 --> 02:33:28.750 but we don't want to obviously rely on the U 02:33:28.750 --> 02:33:31.360 .S. government to do. all the work for us and 02:33:31.360 --> 02:33:35.100 also to be honest. So I think having a parallel 02:33:35.100 --> 02:33:37.659 track and, you know, Galileo Project, Soul Foundation, 02:33:37.979 --> 02:33:41.540 Ryan Graves has his own foundation as well for 02:33:41.540 --> 02:33:44.979 pilots and people who've seen unique things to 02:33:44.979 --> 02:33:47.479 provide that data to people. So I think you got 02:33:47.479 --> 02:33:49.579 to have those dual tracks and, you know, hopefully 02:33:49.579 --> 02:33:52.340 we can create a tsunami event where the U .S. 02:33:52.340 --> 02:33:54.620 government, its allies, and maybe our adversaries. 02:33:55.399 --> 02:33:57.500 But really, if the U .S. government doesn't get 02:33:57.500 --> 02:34:01.120 their uh house in order here i mean you could 02:34:01.120 --> 02:34:04.819 have uh uncontrolled disclosure events such that 02:34:04.819 --> 02:34:06.819 either maybe the non -human intelligence is like 02:34:06.819 --> 02:34:11.420 yeah let's do it or what if one of our adversaries 02:34:11.420 --> 02:34:13.860 decides to disclose and they become the messiah 02:34:13.860 --> 02:34:17.799 figure on this and we lose sovereignty or national 02:34:17.799 --> 02:34:21.379 supremacy in that regard from an open and honest 02:34:21.379 --> 02:34:25.000 civil society perspective so i But I think the 02:34:25.000 --> 02:34:28.059 governments were getting close, I think. We're 02:34:28.059 --> 02:34:29.819 certainly closer than we've ever been before. 02:34:30.159 --> 02:34:32.799 Just the fact that they brought you in to have 02:34:32.799 --> 02:34:37.639 these conversations. Yeah, no, I'm still advising 02:34:37.639 --> 02:34:40.680 the U .S. governments on this. And I'm trying 02:34:40.680 --> 02:34:43.760 to carefully message this, put all the broad 02:34:43.760 --> 02:34:46.940 things on the table. And I'm not trying to be 02:34:46.940 --> 02:34:49.059 coy. I'm not trying to conceal anything. But 02:34:49.059 --> 02:34:51.020 it's like there's real national security and 02:34:51.020 --> 02:34:54.579 collateral damage. with just releasing this willy 02:34:54.579 --> 02:34:56.600 -nilly. I'm just trying to get the government 02:34:56.600 --> 02:34:59.940 to get a plan together here and just be open 02:34:59.940 --> 02:35:01.520 and honest with the people of the world, really. 02:35:01.860 --> 02:35:04.840 And there's still the bottleneck with these military 02:35:04.840 --> 02:35:07.500 contractors that allegedly have access to these 02:35:07.500 --> 02:35:10.899 things. Yeah, and to those guys, and I know some 02:35:10.899 --> 02:35:14.459 of them, and the individuals that hold the keys. 02:35:15.420 --> 02:35:17.579 Like this is a boon like this is don't look at 02:35:17.579 --> 02:35:20.579 it like you're going to lose money. This is a 02:35:20.579 --> 02:35:23.860 recruiting opportunity. Yes, you're going to 02:35:23.860 --> 02:35:26.299 have to let other people in the cookie jar. That's 02:35:26.299 --> 02:35:28.600 how a fair and free society works. And they should 02:35:28.600 --> 02:35:30.920 be able to compete for work. And because that 02:35:30.920 --> 02:35:33.260 was one of the main I talked to some individuals 02:35:33.260 --> 02:35:35.360 that were in an informal session for a previous 02:35:35.360 --> 02:35:37.780 administration on should we disclose or not for 02:35:37.780 --> 02:35:41.200 a certain former president. And really insightful 02:35:41.200 --> 02:35:44.690 what they told me. And one of the biggest. impasses 02:35:44.690 --> 02:35:47.590 to disclosure wasn't the ontological shock from 02:35:47.590 --> 02:35:49.790 a socioeconomic or theological perspective. It 02:35:49.790 --> 02:35:52.969 was, well, there's some white collar crime. We 02:35:52.969 --> 02:35:54.850 violated the federal acquisition regulations. 02:35:54.989 --> 02:35:57.750 We sole source this work to some big companies 02:35:57.750 --> 02:36:01.250 for decades. Contractors are going to litigate 02:36:01.250 --> 02:36:03.850 this to the Supreme Court saying they lost billions 02:36:03.850 --> 02:36:06.170 of projected income because they didn't get the 02:36:06.170 --> 02:36:08.770 bid on the work. And it's going to be this like. 02:36:10.549 --> 02:36:12.770 liability disaster for the US government. And 02:36:12.770 --> 02:36:14.770 the problem with that is, is like, I understand 02:36:14.770 --> 02:36:17.030 that. But like, that's why you need to have a 02:36:17.030 --> 02:36:19.010 truth and reconciliation process. It's almost 02:36:19.010 --> 02:36:21.590 like the Truth and Reconciliation Commission 02:36:21.590 --> 02:36:24.889 and post apartheid South Africa, where people 02:36:24.889 --> 02:36:27.389 who committed like murder came in and was like, 02:36:27.469 --> 02:36:30.469 this is what happened. Here you go. And you know, 02:36:30.489 --> 02:36:32.170 they don't get convicted of those crimes. And 02:36:32.170 --> 02:36:33.430 I'm not saying I mean, people who've committed 02:36:33.430 --> 02:36:35.729 murder, as it relates to the subject, okay, we 02:36:35.729 --> 02:36:38.479 should probably hold them accountable. But For 02:36:38.479 --> 02:36:40.200 some of this stuff, there needs to be a process 02:36:40.200 --> 02:36:43.920 where we kind of mitigate some of those unfortunate 02:36:43.920 --> 02:36:47.899 legal issues. But that was one of the main issues 02:36:47.899 --> 02:36:51.299 a certain group for a reasonably recent administration 02:36:51.299 --> 02:36:55.799 came up with and advised that president, hey, 02:36:55.860 --> 02:36:57.440 look, there's going to be a lot of Supreme Court 02:36:57.440 --> 02:37:01.799 stuff. Let's not be that guy. So it's like that's 02:37:01.799 --> 02:37:05.120 the barrier? That's the reason? Come on. Well, 02:37:05.180 --> 02:37:07.260 it's ridiculous. It makes sense, though, that 02:37:07.260 --> 02:37:09.219 they would think that way, because I do believe 02:37:09.219 --> 02:37:11.059 that lawsuits would emerge from something like 02:37:11.059 --> 02:37:14.059 that. Oh, certainly. And it's and also it's like 02:37:14.059 --> 02:37:16.420 the government admitting that we can't protect 02:37:16.420 --> 02:37:19.520 its citizenry. You know, you know, these non 02:37:19.520 --> 02:37:21.860 -human intelligence, you know, want to do something 02:37:21.860 --> 02:37:23.899 to you. Sorry, we don't have any countermeasures 02:37:23.899 --> 02:37:25.360 to that. You know, it's like this. You know, 02:37:25.399 --> 02:37:27.399 there's a social contract between the citizens 02:37:27.399 --> 02:37:30.340 and the government. We can protect you, et cetera. 02:37:30.399 --> 02:37:33.420 And like. In this case, it's like it's an enigma. 02:37:33.520 --> 02:37:35.600 But I think this is almost like – remember like 02:37:35.600 --> 02:37:38.020 after 9 -11? I was in high school when 9 -11 02:37:38.020 --> 02:37:40.860 happened and people were afraid of dirty bombs, 02:37:41.180 --> 02:37:43.139 terrorists. We didn't know what was going to 02:37:43.139 --> 02:37:46.379 happen next. We lived in fear. But like we banded 02:37:46.379 --> 02:37:49.860 together in the presence of fear and apprehension 02:37:49.860 --> 02:37:52.500 and unknowing what the world was going to be. 02:37:53.020 --> 02:37:55.540 And we made it through it. I mean that's a coarse 02:37:55.540 --> 02:37:59.870 analogy to this. People just have to think in 02:37:59.870 --> 02:38:01.590 that mindset like it's going to be a little scary. 02:38:01.790 --> 02:38:04.010 It's not going to be like kumbaya. Let's move 02:38:04.010 --> 02:38:06.430 the shit to the Masonian and check it out. It's 02:38:06.430 --> 02:38:11.530 going to be awkward and things we're going to 02:38:11.530 --> 02:38:13.670 have to address sociologically, I guess. Are 02:38:13.670 --> 02:38:18.190 you optimistic about how all this lays out? I 02:38:18.190 --> 02:38:21.690 am. I mean it's kind of like when I was testifying 02:38:21.690 --> 02:38:23.899 in the public hearing. It's oddly bipartisan 02:38:23.899 --> 02:38:27.040 in a good way. I had AOC and Matt Gaetz agreeing 02:38:27.040 --> 02:38:29.520 on something, and they were smiling at each other. 02:38:29.579 --> 02:38:32.600 That's crazy. This is crazy. I'm like, look, 02:38:32.620 --> 02:38:34.899 there's AOC. There's Matt Gaetz. There's Tim 02:38:34.899 --> 02:38:37.340 Burchette. I mean, there's people, Garcia, people 02:38:37.340 --> 02:38:39.219 that wouldn't see eye to eye on most subjects. 02:38:39.280 --> 02:38:40.639 Because it's such a human issue. Because they 02:38:40.639 --> 02:38:43.159 want to know the truth, too. And I don't think 02:38:43.159 --> 02:38:47.399 the leaders in Congress. want to be told that 02:38:47.399 --> 02:38:49.139 they're second -class citizens. I mean, a lot 02:38:49.139 --> 02:38:50.459 of presidents weren't briefed to everything. 02:38:50.579 --> 02:38:52.700 Some presidents knew a lot more than others, 02:38:52.760 --> 02:38:55.979 and I have a pretty good beat on that. And it's 02:38:55.979 --> 02:38:58.860 like, wait, the chief executive that also forms 02:38:58.860 --> 02:39:02.299 foreign policy, you don't tell them about ostensibly 02:39:02.299 --> 02:39:05.239 a foreign element. So how do they, as chief of 02:39:05.239 --> 02:39:08.000 state, how do they form foreign policy when you 02:39:08.000 --> 02:39:10.600 don't fully brief them on a foreign element? 02:39:10.659 --> 02:39:12.260 It's like classifying the existence of Russia. 02:39:13.190 --> 02:39:17.569 Right. Right. So you're actually, you know, non 02:39:17.569 --> 02:39:19.909 -constitutional by not allowing our commander 02:39:19.909 --> 02:39:24.350 in chief all information sometimes, you know, 02:39:24.350 --> 02:39:26.989 and I don't know what Harry Reid talked to Joe 02:39:26.989 --> 02:39:44.770 Biden. Talk to Jake Sullivan or Avril Haines 02:39:44.770 --> 02:39:48.190 and Avril Haines, if she's not briefed, like 02:39:48.190 --> 02:39:49.989 she's supposed to be briefed to all intelligence 02:39:49.989 --> 02:39:53.909 in the country. It's 50 U .S. Code Section 3024. 02:39:54.450 --> 02:39:57.190 The director of national intelligence has allowed 02:39:57.190 --> 02:39:59.409 everything from all federal agencies that's intel 02:39:59.409 --> 02:40:02.110 related. Well, ma 'am, if you don't know what 02:40:02.110 --> 02:40:04.389 I'm talking about, we have a problem because 02:40:04.389 --> 02:40:08.709 you're not being briefed by CIA director and 02:40:08.709 --> 02:40:13.899 some other agencies. Well, listen, David, I really 02:40:13.899 --> 02:40:17.600 appreciate what you've done. I think you've done 02:40:17.600 --> 02:40:22.620 a great service to humanity just by taking a 02:40:22.620 --> 02:40:25.899 stand and communicating these ideas and letting 02:40:25.899 --> 02:40:30.020 people know how much of this is real. And, you 02:40:30.020 --> 02:40:33.260 know, you've opened up a world of discourse that 02:40:33.260 --> 02:40:35.379 probably would not have existed if you hadn't 02:40:35.379 --> 02:40:37.659 done that. Thanks. Yeah. I mean, this is not 02:40:37.659 --> 02:40:40.610 easy. I'm sure. I appreciate it. Thank you very 02:40:40.610 --> 02:40:43.690 much for being here. And good luck in the future. 02:40:43.829 --> 02:40:45.489 Thank you. Thank you. All right. Bye, everybody.