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Welcome to this curated educational transcript of the Joe Rogan Experience. In this session, we provide a deep-dive examination of the critical perspectives and historical dialogues presented in Episode #2461. Our mission is to offer a high-fidelity, searchable research resource for students of cultural history, emerging technology, and global discourse. This transcript has been specifically optimized for academic reference, linguistic study, and archival preservation regarding MAHA Initiative, Public Health Reform, and HHS Policy Shifts in 2026. Joe Rogan Podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan

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Experience. Train by day. Joe Rogan Podcast by

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night. All day. I like them, but if it's just

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me wearing them, it feels stupid. Why do you

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wear them? I like it because it locks me in.

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Just locks me in. The only thing I hear is that

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person's voice. And I can't hear Jamie's chair

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moving. I can't hear anything else. And it just

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makes me really focused on the conversation.

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I have ADHD. I had 11 siblings, and I have seven

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kids, so I can work. I can focus. No matter what?

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No matter what. It's a skill. It's a thing to

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learn. If you're the person that can focus without

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distraction, you're a good person to be in the

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job you're at. Yeah. What is it like since you've

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been appointed? I haven't talked to you on a

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podcast. I know. It's the best job I could ever

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have. I feel like I was designed for the job,

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and I just have so much fun. I mean, it's a target

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-rich environment, so there's so many ways that

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you can be effective and improve people's lives

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every single day. Part of that is because the—

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Agency was just such a mess. It wasn't doing

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health care. It was doing sick care and just

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managing all of these perverse incentives. And

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have us spending $5 trillion a year two to three

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times per capita when any other nation spends.

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And we have the sickest population in the world.

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We have the highest chronic disease burden in

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the world. And you were the best at medicine

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in this country. But that's when people get sick.

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You'd rather get sick here than any place in

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the world. But you're more likely to be sick

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here than any place in the world. And, you know,

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and then it was just a big political patronage

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operation. And it still is. You know, we're putting

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an end to that now. I mean, the amount of fraud

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that goes through that place. We lose just on

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Medicaid and Medicare $100 billion a year. And

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it's all just this really, you know, shocking,

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blatant fraud that's become industrialized. I

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mean, there's foreign nations like Russia. Everybody's

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heard of Somalia, but also Cuba has this operation

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in Florida where they open up these little—they

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open up— These PO boxes for durable medical equipment

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is like knee braces and wheelchairs. And then

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they don't have any knee brace or wheelchairs,

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but they have patient identification numbers.

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So they just claim to be shipping them to people.

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And we found one hotel. It had like 129 rooms

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and everyone was different. that was selling

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durable medical equipment, and we go in and shut

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them down, and they immediately go back to Cuba.

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The whole thing is apparently run by the Cuban

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government, but Russia's doing the same thing

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with hospices. Where do they get the patient

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ID numbers? They can buy those numbers on the

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black market. Really? Yeah. And Russia does the

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same thing in Los Angeles. With hospice care.

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So there's more hospice care in Los Angeles than

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the entire rest of the country combined. It's

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all fraudulent. And we're just pumping hundreds

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of millions of dollars into these fraudulent

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operations. The same thing that the Somalis did

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in Ethiopia. A lot of that money was going back

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to Boko Haram and terror groups over there. But

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they were – it was – a lot of it was based –

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the Medicare stuff is different and we're able

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to – we're going to be able to catch almost all

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of that now because we're using AI to do it.

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It was never used before. There was no effort

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at program integrity. In fact, the Biden administration

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deliberately, purposely ordered them – they ended

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the program integrity office. So they went from

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hundreds of people to six people. And they said,

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we don't want you doing program integrity. We

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just want you doing enrollments. And so we got

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all this fraud. Most of it came from these waivers

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that the states got, all the states got them

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for home care and community care. So, you know,

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30 years ago, Medicaid, Medicare, if you got

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a hernia operation. We paid for that. And you

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could tell somebody got the hernia operation

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because they had the scar. They used a licensed

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nurse. They used a licensed doctor. It was all

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documented. Then some of the states said, you

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know, we're sending a whole lot of people to

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the hospital. And we don't have home care providers.

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So if you let us pay family members to do home

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care. The patient won't have to go to the hospital.

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They won't have to go to the emergency room.

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And we'll save a lot of money. So it was well

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-intentioned. But then what happened is people

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immediately started abusing it. So today, these

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are services that are not normally played by

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family members, performed by family members.

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Buying groceries for your grandmother and bringing

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them home, you now get paid for that. balancing

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your grandmother's checkbook, driving her to

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a medical visit. So then you had this organized

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fraud, and this is what happened in Minnesota.

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These organized crime companies would come in

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and say, you designate this family, you designate

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all your children have autism now, even if they

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didn't. And we're going to now pay providers

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for each of them. And we'll give you a few thousand

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dollars to do it. But then they would collect

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all the money. And that's what was happening.

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It's happening all over the country because there

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was no—it's very, very difficult. The guardrails

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on that system were very pervious. And anybody

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can defraud it. If you are inclined to do fraud,

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this was an irresistible opportunity. How long

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was this going on for? When did this fraud begin,

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do you believe? It really accelerated during

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the Biden administration. We expected to pay

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for the Minnesota program just for autism care

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for kids with autism. The kids need the care

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because. You know, they go to maybe a special

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school, but then they come home from school and

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the parents aren't there because they're working.

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So who's going to take care of them? So in legitimate

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circumstances, you would want to pay for that.

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But what happened is they just started this wholesale

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fraud. We expected the cost of that program to

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be about $3 million a year in Minnesota, in Minneapolis.

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It got up in over a three -year period. It got

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up to $400 million a year. So, you know, it was

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all fraudulent, almost. I just don't understand.

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So this accelerated during the Biden administration?

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Yeah. But when did it begin? Like how long has

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it been going on? Because they stopped doing

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program integrity. Specifically, they told people

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in my agency, and I've talked to them, we don't

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want to do program integrity anymore. We now

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just want to focus everything on enrollments.

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In other words, enrolling more people in Obamacare

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and the programs. And, you know, you could say

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there was bad motives there because, one, the

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states don't pay. The states pay a tiny fraction

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of it, but it all goes to the federal government.

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So the states don't really want to do fraud detection.

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Because all that money is coming into their estate.

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And then every time you enroll somebody, you're

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registering them to vote. And so, you know, they

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may have had ulterior motives. Let me put it

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that way. But, you know, right now what we're

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doing is we're saying to the states, we have

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audited you. We expect that we believe that 50

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% of the program dollars you're spending were

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fraudulent or possibly fraudulent. You show us

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a corrective action that you're going to take

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or we're going to withdraw that money the next

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time. The money is not being withdrawn from individuals.

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We're not reimbursing the state for it until

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they told us. Now, the red states have all said,

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yeah, we'll do it. But Maine, Minnesota. California

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and New York have said, no, we're not going to.

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Basically, he sent us corrective action that

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was just, you know, it was ridiculous. So is

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there financial incentive? Are these people that

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are making all this money from fraud, are they

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donating to any specific groups? Like, is there

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a direct turnaround? The Cubans in Florida and

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Florida, you know, they get mad at Trump because

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they say, oh, all the states you're designating

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are blue states. That's just because the blue

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states refuse to cooperate. But Florida is a

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red state and we're really going after them.

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We're shutting down all durable medical equipment,

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reimbursements for the whole state because it

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was all being run. It was probably being run

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by the Cuban government. But I don't understand

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how no one saw it. No one from the government

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saw it. And would there be a reason why they

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weren't looking for it other than they just wanted

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it? They were only thinking about recruitments.

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But were they also was anybody making money outside

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of these crime organizations? I would say no.

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The money was not. The states were making money.

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Right. But there was a lot of talk online about

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donations to parties and donations to NGOs. That

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is probably true, too, although I don't have

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any evidence of that. No evidence. Okay. So it

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really just ramped. And you wouldn't have. Even

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if you get those kind of donations, it's not

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the kind of proof that I would talk about because

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you cannot prove that that donation motivated

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the bad behavior. But it just – it really highlights

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how ideologically captured some people are, that

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because it's the right wing going after this

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Medicaid fraud, that somehow or another that

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fraud is OK. And that fraud is not that big a

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deal, that there's – I mean, what's the all told

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number that's been stolen from from this stuff

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over the if you had to take a wild guess? It's

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at least 100 billion dollars, 100 billion from

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Medicaid and Medicare. That anybody would not

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want to stop that kind of crime because it's

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attached to the wrong party is it just shows

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you how weird this country is right now. Yeah.

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I mean, I listen. I was a Democrat my whole life.

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And, you know, one of the thing and then I, you

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know, now I'm kind of first of all, I it's illegal

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for me now to vote in any state. So I don't really

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have a party affiliation because, you know, they

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challenge. I was a New York State resident when

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I was running. They sued me and they said, oh,

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you don't really live in New York. You live in

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California. I said, yeah, but. My driver's license

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is from New York. My law license is from New

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York. I have an address in New York. My car is

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registered in New York. My falconry license is

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in New York. My hunting license is in New York.

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My fishing license is in New York. And I intend

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to return to New York. And there were hundreds

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of cases, just black letter laws, saying the

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only measure is if you intend to return there

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at some point. We got crooked judges, and they

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said, no, you're not a New York resident. I'd

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already said I'm not a California resident. I

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don't intend to stay there. So now I'm not legally

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allowed to vote in any state. But, you know,

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I saw this with a party. My father hated partisanship

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because he thought it was dishonest. And he always

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told us you should vote for the man, not the

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party. Time was predominantly men. But I saw

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this when Trump, you know, I grew up in a Democratic

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Party that was very anti -NAFTA. So it was against

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working people and labor unions. Then Trump said

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that he was anti -NAFTA. All of a sudden, the

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Democratic Party was pro -NAFTA. And that's what

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turned my head the first time. And then, you

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know, when I was then I saw how they and Trump

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questioned vaccines during the 2016 election.

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The Democratic Party, it was kind of that skepticism

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and the concerns were spread evenly across the

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party. My uncle, Ted Kennedy, was very much on

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the side of medical freedom and it was evenly

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spread. But as soon as Trump said that, it became

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part of the dogma of that party. And then, you

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know, when I ran, we were, you know, it was one

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of the things I ran against was the Ukraine war.

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And the Democrats were always the anti -war party.

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But as soon as Trump questioned that war, they

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became the pro -war party. And they invited the

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CIA director to speak at the Democratic Convention.

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And it just is, it's the party's only agenda

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is we hate Trump. And anything he says, we're

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going to do the opposite of it. And it makes

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me very sad for the party. And I don't think

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it's a sustainable way to operate. No, there

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has to be some sort of an appeal to people in

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the middle that left when things went crazy.

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Just let us know you're not crazy anymore. Let

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us know you've abandoned a lot of this crazy

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stuff. And also, like, recognize what's good

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for everybody. Hundreds of billions of dollars

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of fraud is not good for any of us, the whole

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country. So we should all be together on this

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one thing. Like this is terrible. This is stealing

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from your tax money, all of our tax money. Us,

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American citizens, we should all be united on

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stopping any kind of fraud. Forget about who.

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Who's the fucking president? And what's who's

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going to get responsibility for it? Who's going

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to take who's going to get the accolades? Like,

00:15:30.610 --> 00:15:33.590
who cares? Stop fraud. Stop. We're all together.

00:15:33.870 --> 00:15:36.230
You shouldn't have criminals from other countries

00:15:36.230 --> 00:15:39.330
living here just stealing money from Medicaid.

00:15:39.389 --> 00:15:42.450
That seems like that should be a bipartisan issue

00:15:42.450 --> 00:15:56.480
in a rational society. We did the Tylenol findings

00:15:56.480 --> 00:16:00.240
because, you know, the science is really clear.

00:16:00.460 --> 00:16:05.500
And there are dozens. I read 76 studies over

00:16:05.500 --> 00:16:07.720
a weekend. And when, you know, when we were looking

00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:12.480
at this and the studies that support Tylenol

00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:14.799
safety are very weak and have huge holes in them.

00:16:15.259 --> 00:16:18.940
There's overwhelming science that says you shouldn't

00:16:18.940 --> 00:16:22.039
take it particularly, you know, it's OK normally.

00:16:23.370 --> 00:16:25.870
You shouldn't take it during pregnancy and particularly

00:16:25.870 --> 00:16:29.070
the last days of pregnancy or in the perinatal

00:16:29.070 --> 00:16:33.009
period, which is immediately after pregnancy.

00:16:33.549 --> 00:16:36.710
You don't want to take it because the association

00:16:36.710 --> 00:16:41.490
with Tylenol usage at that point and neurodevelopmental

00:16:41.490 --> 00:16:46.049
disease are very, very high and pretty clear.

00:16:47.070 --> 00:16:50.490
And so we issued a warning. We didn't ban Tylenol.

00:16:50.529 --> 00:16:53.049
We just sent a letter out to all doctors saying

00:16:53.049 --> 00:16:57.269
be careful about – we didn't want to ban it during

00:16:57.269 --> 00:17:00.950
pregnancy because as bad as it is, it's the best

00:17:00.950 --> 00:17:05.309
thing. It's better than taking ibuprofen or aspirin.

00:17:05.569 --> 00:17:08.390
Why is aspirin bad? Because of Reye's syndrome.

00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:11.599
It has a clear association with Reye's syndrome,

00:17:11.660 --> 00:17:13.339
and they all have problems. What is that word,

00:17:13.420 --> 00:17:15.940
Reye's syndrome? Reye's syndrome, R -E -Y -E

00:17:15.940 --> 00:17:22.319
-S. What is that? It's—I'm not sure exactly what

00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:24.359
it does. Jamie, put that into our wonderful sponsor,

00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:27.980
Perplexity. And if you put aspirin use in Reye's

00:17:27.980 --> 00:17:30.539
syndrome, you'll see the— So is this just with

00:17:30.539 --> 00:17:32.240
pregnant women or with people in general? Yeah,

00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:34.119
for pregnant and pregnancy or young children.

00:17:34.380 --> 00:17:38.109
Oh. So baby aspirin? Didn't they always used

00:17:38.109 --> 00:17:39.490
to have children's asthma? Yeah, I don't know

00:17:39.490 --> 00:17:41.609
if they do it anymore. Reye's syndrome is a rare

00:17:41.609 --> 00:17:43.809
but serious condition causing sudden brain swelling

00:17:43.809 --> 00:17:46.170
and liver damage primarily in children and teens

00:17:46.170 --> 00:17:48.930
recovering from viral infections like flu or

00:17:48.930 --> 00:17:52.230
chicken pox become very rare due to reduced aspirin

00:17:52.230 --> 00:17:56.970
use in kids. Wow. Aspirin. I always thought of

00:17:56.970 --> 00:17:59.349
aspirin as like the most natural and healthy

00:17:59.349 --> 00:18:01.390
out of all those things that you take for pain.

00:18:01.410 --> 00:18:06.710
I think it is pretty safe, but it's... Avoid

00:18:06.710 --> 00:18:10.799
aspirin and what's that word? You say it. What

00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:14.759
is it? Salicyate -containing meds. Salicyate

00:18:14.759 --> 00:18:16.819
-containing meds in children and teens with flu,

00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:20.940
chickenpox, or cold. Use acetaminophen or ibuprofen

00:18:20.940 --> 00:18:23.259
instead. Vaccinate against flu and chickenpox

00:18:23.259 --> 00:18:27.640
and screen newborns for metabolic risks. So acetaminophen

00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:29.700
is the issue in Tylenol, right? Yeah. Because

00:18:29.700 --> 00:18:32.759
I read this terrible story about a lady who died

00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:35.240
during COVID because she did not from COVID,

00:18:35.339 --> 00:18:37.579
from Tylenol. She just kept taking Tylenol. Well,

00:18:37.579 --> 00:18:40.369
Tylenol shuts down your liver. enough of it.

00:18:40.390 --> 00:18:42.509
That's what happened to her. What I was saying

00:18:42.509 --> 00:18:46.069
is, you know, when we issued this warning, it

00:18:46.069 --> 00:18:49.829
was immediately condemned by the Democrats. Oh,

00:18:50.049 --> 00:18:52.990
you know, here's Trump and Kennedy doing, you

00:18:52.990 --> 00:18:56.710
know, weird science again. And then you had all

00:18:56.710 --> 00:18:59.369
of these videos, these viral videos on TikTok

00:18:59.369 --> 00:19:03.950
of pregnant women eating Tylenol. Yeah, to say

00:19:03.950 --> 00:19:06.809
fuck Trump. It's crazy. I hope they didn't really

00:19:06.809 --> 00:19:09.559
do it. I hope they were pretending. Because that's

00:19:09.559 --> 00:19:11.680
so dumb. It's just so stupid. Why would you even

00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:15.019
want to risk that? How is that not a thing that

00:19:15.019 --> 00:19:18.779
you just abandon all party affiliation and go,

00:19:18.819 --> 00:19:21.380
the health of my child. This is science. They're

00:19:21.380 --> 00:19:24.279
not saying don't. take Tylenol. You could still

00:19:24.279 --> 00:19:28.119
buy Tylenol. It's a good thing to know that if

00:19:28.119 --> 00:19:30.079
you take too much of something, it's bad. There's

00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:31.579
a lot of things that are fine if you take one

00:19:31.579 --> 00:19:35.259
or two pills. But if you're that poor lady with

00:19:35.259 --> 00:19:37.380
COVID, if you just keep taking it over and over

00:19:37.380 --> 00:19:40.259
and over again, you'll die. We should know that.

00:19:40.380 --> 00:19:42.559
It doesn't mean you shouldn't take aspirin or

00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:45.380
you shouldn't take Tylenol. It just means know

00:19:45.380 --> 00:19:47.480
when to take it and when not to take it. And

00:19:47.480 --> 00:19:49.460
know how much to take. That's all information

00:19:49.460 --> 00:19:51.490
that everybody should want. To be out there,

00:19:51.569 --> 00:19:53.349
the fact that people want to connect that to

00:19:53.349 --> 00:19:56.170
Trump and I'm going to take Tylenol while I'm

00:19:56.170 --> 00:20:00.750
pregnant. Imagine the aliens watching us and

00:20:00.750 --> 00:20:03.410
going – they're not ready. They're not ready

00:20:03.410 --> 00:20:05.549
for sophisticated time -traveling technology.

00:20:06.109 --> 00:20:08.190
These fucking dopes, like what are they doing?

00:20:08.369 --> 00:20:11.430
They're fighting over nonsense. And it's like

00:20:11.430 --> 00:20:14.670
it's all heavily accelerated by social media.

00:20:15.250 --> 00:20:22.279
Yeah. Yeah. I mean the algorithms. Just amplify

00:20:22.279 --> 00:20:25.259
that polarization. Yes. They're just telling

00:20:25.259 --> 00:20:28.680
you what you want to hear and validating your

00:20:28.680 --> 00:20:31.059
worldview all the time. And also just outraging

00:20:31.059 --> 00:20:34.460
you, just outraging you all the time. I've been

00:20:34.460 --> 00:20:36.779
off it for a while now, and it's like it frees

00:20:36.779 --> 00:20:42.259
your brain. It's like. All the weirdness of thinking

00:20:42.259 --> 00:20:44.880
about nonsense in the world, you're aware of

00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:47.339
it peripherally, but it's not in your face all

00:20:47.339 --> 00:20:49.559
day, which I think most people are dealing with

00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:52.240
a lot more even than I was. And they're just

00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:56.400
bombarded by sensation, bombarded by anger and

00:20:56.400 --> 00:21:02.039
frustration and angst. It kind of liberates the

00:21:02.039 --> 00:21:06.039
darkest impulses of the human spirit. I mean,

00:21:06.059 --> 00:21:10.559
I don't use it either, but I post stuff. But,

00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:13.740
you know, if I started reading my comments and

00:21:13.740 --> 00:21:17.339
take them seriously. No, it's terrible. I genuinely

00:21:17.339 --> 00:21:21.779
thought when you joined forces with Trump and

00:21:21.779 --> 00:21:25.140
then Tulsi did as well, I was like, OK, maybe

00:21:25.140 --> 00:21:28.579
this will unite us more and make more people

00:21:28.579 --> 00:21:31.039
realize that there's a lot of people that are

00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:33.339
being left out that are in the center of all

00:21:33.339 --> 00:21:37.079
this. And we can all come together and work together.

00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:41.099
That's what I thought naively. Obviously, once

00:21:41.099 --> 00:21:43.980
you guys got in there, it was you guys were MAGA

00:21:43.980 --> 00:21:50.420
and health is bad and don't stop the dyes. No

00:21:50.420 --> 00:21:53.700
matter what it was, people were ideologically

00:21:53.700 --> 00:21:56.500
opposed to you being correct about anything because

00:21:56.500 --> 00:21:58.740
now you're connected with Trump. So it's like

00:21:58.740 --> 00:22:01.980
I was watching liberals. The people that are

00:22:01.980 --> 00:22:05.079
always worried about food ingredients, just dismissing

00:22:05.079 --> 00:22:08.220
all of this talk about preservatives and glyphosate

00:22:08.220 --> 00:22:11.259
and red dye and all these different things is

00:22:11.259 --> 00:22:16.799
just an ideological thing. Yeah. I mean, it's

00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:28.160
dogma, and it's tribalism. It's these— Connectors

00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:31.839
in our brain that evolved over millions of years

00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:34.160
was living in these little tribal communities.

00:22:34.279 --> 00:22:40.480
And now you've got machines that can activate

00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:43.779
those parts of the brain and they're being manipulated

00:22:43.779 --> 00:22:46.559
all the time. Yeah. And then there's a bunch

00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:48.700
of people that are commentating that aren't even

00:22:48.700 --> 00:22:51.339
real people. There's that too. There's a lot

00:22:51.339 --> 00:22:53.720
of manipulation that's going on on social media

00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:55.960
where who knows who's doing it. There's a bunch

00:22:55.960 --> 00:22:58.420
of different groups doing it. But they're not

00:22:58.420 --> 00:23:00.339
real people that are outraged. They're not real

00:23:00.339 --> 00:23:02.140
human beings that are saying these things. And

00:23:02.140 --> 00:23:04.319
they can kind of shift a narrative into a certain

00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:07.019
direction sometimes. It's a fascinating time

00:23:07.019 --> 00:23:12.920
to be alive. As far as what you thought this

00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:15.490
job was going to be before you get in. before

00:23:15.490 --> 00:23:19.289
you got in and what it became. What was your

00:23:19.289 --> 00:23:22.410
expectations when you got in? Did anything really

00:23:22.410 --> 00:23:29.750
surprise you? I mean, you know, I try to go into

00:23:29.750 --> 00:23:33.930
every part of my life without expectations and

00:23:33.930 --> 00:23:37.910
just focus on really narrowly on what I'm doing

00:23:37.910 --> 00:23:41.450
day by day. And that actually makes me a lot

00:23:41.450 --> 00:23:43.450
more resilient because if you don't have expectations,

00:23:43.809 --> 00:23:46.549
you never get disappointments. And so you can

00:23:46.549 --> 00:23:53.589
never get crushed. But I would say that, you

00:23:53.589 --> 00:23:58.589
know, I had not spent a lot of my life hanging

00:23:58.589 --> 00:24:02.710
out with Republicans. And what I imagine that

00:24:02.710 --> 00:24:07.319
they were talking about. is exactly the opposite

00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:10.759
of, you know, now I'm in an administration that's

00:24:10.759 --> 00:24:16.039
surrounded by immensely talented people. And

00:24:16.039 --> 00:24:19.680
they're immensely idealistic. And, you know,

00:24:19.720 --> 00:24:22.160
nobody, I always imagined the Republicans would

00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:23.920
get together and they'd be thinking about how

00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:26.460
do we screw the poor and how do we, you know,

00:24:26.460 --> 00:24:30.890
reduce tax on the rich. And all they're – they're

00:24:30.890 --> 00:24:33.390
just narrowly focused on how do we solve these

00:24:33.390 --> 00:24:35.549
big problems and how do we make our country work.

00:24:36.490 --> 00:24:40.369
And the level of idealism that I see at every

00:24:40.369 --> 00:24:44.650
level in the White House and in my agency is

00:24:44.650 --> 00:24:51.210
inspiring. And then the level of the capabilities,

00:24:51.250 --> 00:24:55.309
just the competence of the people who I'm surrounded

00:24:55.309 --> 00:24:59.309
with. I think the thing that shocked me most

00:24:59.309 --> 00:25:05.750
was how bad the agency was, just how inefficient,

00:25:06.009 --> 00:25:08.109
how nobody seemed to care that people were getting

00:25:08.109 --> 00:25:11.529
sicker and sicker. Nobody was taking accountability

00:25:11.529 --> 00:25:14.210
of the fact we're the health agency, and yet

00:25:14.210 --> 00:25:16.970
we have the worst health and the richest health

00:25:16.970 --> 00:25:22.440
agency in the world. I think HHS is the sixth

00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:24.559
biggest country in the world if you look at its

00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:29.160
budget. It's got the biggest budget in the federal

00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:32.319
government, bigger than the defense budget. And

00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:36.400
yet we are absolutely miserable at what we did.

00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:40.700
I mean we're literally presiding over this cliff.

00:25:41.939 --> 00:25:46.819
Where every American is getting—people are just—77

00:25:46.819 --> 00:25:49.519
percent of American kids can't qualify for military

00:25:49.519 --> 00:25:53.819
service. And nobody's asking why is that happening.

00:25:54.140 --> 00:26:01.619
When I was a kid, the typical pediatrician would

00:26:01.619 --> 00:26:06.680
see one case of juvenile diabetes over a 40 -

00:26:06.680 --> 00:26:11.359
or 50 -year career. Today, 38 percent. of teens

00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:15.140
are diabetic or pre -diabetic. So one out of

00:26:15.140 --> 00:26:16.660
every three kids who walks through this office

00:26:16.660 --> 00:26:20.019
store, why isn't anybody noticing this? The autism

00:26:20.019 --> 00:26:23.740
rates have gone from 1 in 10 ,000 in 1970, and

00:26:23.740 --> 00:26:25.980
people knew what autism was. They knew what it

00:26:25.980 --> 00:26:30.279
looked like in 1970. They did the biggest epidemiological

00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:32.799
study in history to answer the question, what

00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:35.920
is the percentage? And they came up with 0 .8

00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:40.240
per 10 ,000. Less than one in 10 ,000. And today

00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:43.839
it's one in 31. In California, it's one in 19.

00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:48.380
And one in 12 .5 boys. That's crazy. We are,

00:26:48.380 --> 00:26:51.900
you know. That's so crazy. One in 12 .5 boys

00:26:51.900 --> 00:26:55.539
is crazy. And when my uncle was president, you

00:26:55.539 --> 00:26:59.079
know, I was a 10 -year -old boy. We spent zero

00:26:59.079 --> 00:27:02.839
on chronic disease. Zero. And today we spend

00:27:02.839 --> 00:27:07.960
$4 .3 trillion a year. And it's the fastest growing

00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:12.339
item in the federal budget. And it's existential.

00:27:12.740 --> 00:27:15.359
We can't sustain it. And the Republicans and

00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:17.619
Democrats have been arguing for years about whether

00:27:17.619 --> 00:27:19.960
we do the single payer, Obamacare, this or that.

00:27:21.019 --> 00:27:24.640
It's all about throwing money. Who gets to keep

00:27:24.640 --> 00:27:27.279
the money? And we're throwing it in a system

00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:29.319
that's completely broken. It's not a health care

00:27:29.319 --> 00:27:30.720
system. People just keep getting sicker and sicker.

00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:33.160
It's like changing deck chairs on the Titanic.

00:27:34.299 --> 00:27:38.559
Why is nobody focusing on how do we get people

00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:40.720
healthy? Because that's how you solve the health

00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:44.599
care cost problem. Right now, 40 cents out of

00:27:44.599 --> 00:27:46.740
every dollar that you spend in federal taxes

00:27:46.740 --> 00:27:51.119
is going to health care, and about 90 percent

00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:55.819
of that is chronic disease. So, you know, it's

00:27:55.819 --> 00:27:59.480
clear. And Americans don't want to be sick. They're

00:27:59.480 --> 00:28:03.599
being made sick. The obesity rates have gone

00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:08.279
from 5 % in kids when I was a kid to now close

00:28:08.279 --> 00:28:12.579
to 20%. And in adults, 70 % of adults are obese

00:28:12.579 --> 00:28:15.000
or overweight. That was not true when we were

00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:18.859
kids. And it's not because Americans got indolent

00:28:18.859 --> 00:28:22.200
or lazy or hungry. It's because they were being

00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:28.849
mass poisoned. You know, the vested interests

00:28:28.849 --> 00:28:31.849
that are making money on keeping—everybody makes

00:28:31.849 --> 00:28:35.109
money on keeping us sick. The food companies

00:28:35.109 --> 00:28:37.730
make money on getting us sick. But pharma makes

00:28:37.730 --> 00:28:40.470
money on keeping us sick. The insurance—you would

00:28:40.470 --> 00:28:42.109
think insurance would want to keep you well,

00:28:42.170 --> 00:28:45.769
but it doesn't. It actually makes more money

00:28:45.769 --> 00:28:50.150
if more people are sick. The hospitals— How does

00:28:50.150 --> 00:28:51.710
the insurance company make more money if people

00:28:51.710 --> 00:28:53.549
are sick? Well, I mean, think of it this way.

00:28:54.349 --> 00:28:59.829
If you're Lloyds of London, do you want one ship

00:28:59.829 --> 00:29:03.150
– and you're insuring all the ships in the ocean.

00:29:04.069 --> 00:29:07.289
Do you want one ship to sink a year or do you

00:29:07.289 --> 00:29:12.269
want 1 ,000 to sink? If 1 ,000 sink, everybody

00:29:12.269 --> 00:29:14.190
is going to be paying you premiums to insure

00:29:14.190 --> 00:29:18.019
themselves against that eventuality. You're making

00:29:18.019 --> 00:29:20.700
money on the friction. So you're making the money

00:29:20.700 --> 00:29:23.180
that comes into this. You're making your money

00:29:23.180 --> 00:29:26.220
on the money that comes to the system. So the

00:29:26.220 --> 00:29:28.819
more that you pump up that volume of money, the

00:29:28.819 --> 00:29:32.660
more you make. So, you know, nobody is interested.

00:29:33.579 --> 00:29:38.500
Nobody is economically incentivized to make people

00:29:38.500 --> 00:29:41.019
well. And we are not going to get well until

00:29:41.019 --> 00:29:43.839
we align those economic incentives with the health

00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:46.279
outcomes that we want, which is nobody gets sick.

00:29:46.940 --> 00:29:49.059
We end the chronic disease epidemic, and that's

00:29:49.059 --> 00:29:51.900
what we're doing now. We're trying to realign

00:29:51.900 --> 00:29:55.299
all those perverse incentives that reward you.

00:29:55.319 --> 00:30:01.240
For example, the medical system pays out on fee

00:30:01.240 --> 00:30:05.339
-based service. That means the more tests the

00:30:05.339 --> 00:30:08.059
doctor orders for you, the more drugs he prescribes

00:30:08.059 --> 00:30:14.160
you, the more contact he has with you, the richer

00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:19.960
he gets. So he is not incentivized to give you,

00:30:20.019 --> 00:30:23.160
well, we ought to be paying him a flat fee at

00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:25.079
the beginning of the year and saying anything,

00:30:25.259 --> 00:30:28.500
any cause from this patient, the rest of the

00:30:28.500 --> 00:30:30.700
year come out of your pocket. And then he's like,

00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:33.059
okay, how do I get this guy from getting sick?

00:30:33.140 --> 00:30:36.619
And he starts studying nutrition books. That's

00:30:36.619 --> 00:30:40.200
actually an interesting idea. It seems so captured

00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:41.880
at this point. It's going to be difficult to

00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:45.000
unravel all that. It's difficult, but it's not

00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:48.240
impossible, and we're doing it. About three years

00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:49.940
from now, you're going to see a different healthcare

00:30:49.940 --> 00:30:52.900
model in our country. Talking about it has a

00:30:52.900 --> 00:30:56.220
big impact because most people are just not aware

00:30:56.220 --> 00:31:00.109
of how the whole system works. And what is actually

00:31:00.109 --> 00:31:02.369
wrong with it? You know, most people just hear

00:31:02.369 --> 00:31:04.349
about it. Health care. People are sick. They

00:31:04.349 --> 00:31:06.349
need health care. Why would they cut health care?

00:31:06.450 --> 00:31:08.210
Cutting health care is bad. That's what they

00:31:08.210 --> 00:31:10.730
would just immediately think. And I think most

00:31:10.730 --> 00:31:12.890
people, they think of the fraud stuff and they

00:31:12.890 --> 00:31:15.349
want to dismiss it. Like they I've heard all

00:31:15.349 --> 00:31:17.609
these people dismiss this Nick Shirley kid and

00:31:17.609 --> 00:31:21.250
what he exposed in in Minneapolis. But the reason

00:31:21.250 --> 00:31:23.829
why is because it's the wrong party. If this

00:31:23.829 --> 00:31:27.049
was a Democrat that was exposing Republican fraud,

00:31:27.289 --> 00:31:30.019
then they would be. into it. It would be on every

00:31:30.019 --> 00:31:32.160
newspaper. But instead, they're trying to dismiss

00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:38.039
it as not relevant. Yeah. And to me, it's weird

00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:41.819
because I know Democrats are human beings and

00:31:41.819 --> 00:31:44.319
they care about the same things that I do. I've

00:31:44.319 --> 00:31:46.599
known all of these guys, almost all of them,

00:31:46.619 --> 00:31:49.240
many of them for 40 years. Bernie Sanders, I've

00:31:49.240 --> 00:31:53.000
known for 40 years. Their only solution is more

00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:55.299
money to the system, a system that is broken,

00:31:55.400 --> 00:31:58.750
that is making us sicker and sicker. And what

00:31:58.750 --> 00:32:01.349
President Trump wants to do is he wants to fix

00:32:01.349 --> 00:32:04.450
the system. Stop. Most of that money is not going

00:32:04.450 --> 00:32:05.809
to the patients. It's going to the insurance

00:32:05.809 --> 00:32:08.769
companies and the PBMs and all of these middlemen

00:32:08.769 --> 00:32:12.930
that are, you know, are milking the system. And

00:32:12.930 --> 00:32:14.950
that's why President Trump says, you know, the

00:32:14.950 --> 00:32:18.529
answer is to not pay the insurance company. It's

00:32:18.529 --> 00:32:24.549
to pay the consumer directly and put him make

00:32:24.549 --> 00:32:27.779
him the CEO of his own health care. Oh, that

00:32:27.779 --> 00:32:30.299
he can spend money. He's now incentivized to

00:32:30.299 --> 00:32:34.019
do prevention and to maybe do holistic medicine

00:32:34.019 --> 00:32:38.720
or take vitamins or take vitamin D, which, you

00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:41.359
know, is as you know, it's kind of miraculous

00:32:41.359 --> 00:32:48.619
or to or to do alternatives, you know, to do

00:32:48.619 --> 00:32:52.579
preventative care. And he wants to say he's going

00:32:52.579 --> 00:32:57.970
to want to save money right now. Nobody is in

00:32:57.970 --> 00:33:00.390
that position of accountability. We need to make

00:33:00.390 --> 00:33:03.369
them the CEO of their own health so that they

00:33:03.369 --> 00:33:05.130
have responsibility and they're going to pay

00:33:05.130 --> 00:33:09.730
the cost if they get sick. Government pays, but

00:33:09.730 --> 00:33:12.730
they then decide how to allocate that money.

00:33:12.990 --> 00:33:16.190
And then we need to make the system transparent.

00:33:16.369 --> 00:33:18.430
And that's one of the things that we're doing.

00:33:19.210 --> 00:33:22.799
During his first term, Trump... passed a transparency

00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:25.000
bill, but because Trump had passed, everybody

00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:29.799
wanted transparency. If you're a woman, you're

00:33:29.799 --> 00:33:32.799
pregnant, you want to know how much it's going

00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:37.299
to cost you to have that baby. There's no way

00:33:37.299 --> 00:33:40.059
you can find that out for most of them. You can

00:33:40.059 --> 00:33:42.440
go nine months on a phone every day, how much

00:33:42.440 --> 00:33:44.180
it's going to cost, and you'll never get a straight

00:33:44.180 --> 00:33:49.720
answer. And so, you know, in New York, For example,

00:33:49.819 --> 00:33:52.579
what we're doing now is we're going to make all

00:33:52.579 --> 00:33:55.440
of the hospitals and all the providers post a

00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:59.539
menu of their prices that are available to everybody

00:33:59.539 --> 00:34:01.619
and that are available on a website that we're

00:34:01.619 --> 00:34:06.259
creating. So if you want an MRI and there's 40

00:34:06.259 --> 00:34:09.300
places around your home that offer MRIs, you

00:34:09.300 --> 00:34:11.719
can't right now figure out what they cost. Now

00:34:11.719 --> 00:34:13.480
you're going to be able to go and look at them

00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:15.699
all on a single page and figure out what the

00:34:15.699 --> 00:34:19.449
cheapest one is. If you go to a restaurant, the

00:34:19.449 --> 00:34:22.730
price are on the menu. If you go to buy a car

00:34:22.730 --> 00:34:26.190
and the guy said to you, yeah, you can buy the

00:34:26.190 --> 00:34:28.070
car, but I'm not going to tell you how much it

00:34:28.070 --> 00:34:31.230
costs until after you bought by it. Nobody would

00:34:31.230 --> 00:34:33.210
operate that way. But that's how our medical

00:34:33.210 --> 00:34:37.250
system operates. So I looked at we have a mock

00:34:37.250 --> 00:34:40.869
up of this Web site. We're right now during the

00:34:40.869 --> 00:34:43.190
Biden administration because Trump had passed

00:34:43.190 --> 00:34:45.510
that law. The Biden administration just refused

00:34:45.510 --> 00:34:47.780
to enforce it. So we're in the same position

00:34:47.780 --> 00:34:51.440
now where there's no transparency. We're changing

00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:56.280
that now. We've sent out over 1 ,000 letters

00:34:56.280 --> 00:35:00.099
to hospitals, you know, warning letters. You've

00:35:00.099 --> 00:35:04.340
got to post them right now. And we just finalized

00:35:04.340 --> 00:35:07.019
new regulations. If they don't do that, they're

00:35:07.019 --> 00:35:09.940
going to pay a huge fine. So I saw the mock -up

00:35:09.940 --> 00:35:16.090
of the website. And I said – I asked the question,

00:35:16.230 --> 00:35:20.250
how much does it cost in the hospitals within

00:35:20.250 --> 00:35:24.389
a mile of Manhattan to have a baby? One of them

00:35:24.389 --> 00:35:27.250
was – there were about 30 hospitals that I could

00:35:27.250 --> 00:35:31.650
visualize on one page. One of them was $1 ,300.

00:35:32.090 --> 00:35:35.610
That was the lowest. The highest was $22 ,000.

00:35:42.969 --> 00:35:48.489
A baby is about $5 ,000. And the most expensive

00:35:48.489 --> 00:35:52.530
is $60 ,000. And it's the same service, the same

00:35:52.530 --> 00:35:55.969
quality care. Nothing changes except that price.

00:35:56.449 --> 00:35:59.809
Why do we have that information chaos? We have

00:35:59.809 --> 00:36:03.010
it because the industry wants to hide what it's

00:36:03.010 --> 00:36:06.530
doing. And so there's no market. There's no ability

00:36:06.530 --> 00:36:13.320
for people to make good choices. I was staying

00:36:13.320 --> 00:36:15.980
with Dr. Oz during the transition at his house

00:36:15.980 --> 00:36:19.739
in Florida. And one day, Prime Minister Rudd,

00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:22.199
who was the former prime minister of Australia,

00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:25.940
came by. And after he was prime minister, he

00:36:25.940 --> 00:36:28.219
had been appointed to run a commission to reduce

00:36:28.219 --> 00:36:31.119
health care costs and improve quality. And they

00:36:31.119 --> 00:36:33.260
were very successful. But he said the number

00:36:33.260 --> 00:36:36.780
one thing that they did that changed everything

00:36:36.780 --> 00:36:40.889
was price transparency, was showing people. the

00:36:40.889 --> 00:36:44.110
price of what they're going to pay. So we're

00:36:44.110 --> 00:36:47.550
now going to do that. And people will be able

00:36:47.550 --> 00:36:53.389
to shop. And now we also have to shift all of

00:36:53.389 --> 00:36:56.829
that money away from the insurance companies

00:36:56.829 --> 00:37:01.010
and put it in the hands of the public so that

00:37:01.010 --> 00:37:04.150
they are incentivized, maximum incentivized to

00:37:04.150 --> 00:37:07.130
make good choices. So as far as making good choices

00:37:07.130 --> 00:37:10.889
with like food, I like what you guys did. I love

00:37:10.889 --> 00:37:13.190
what you guys did with the food pyramid. Essentially

00:37:13.190 --> 00:37:15.510
flipped it on its head, which is kind of crazy

00:37:15.510 --> 00:37:18.329
that for the longest time we are being told that

00:37:18.329 --> 00:37:21.809
the most important things, the primary diet should

00:37:21.809 --> 00:37:26.389
be grains and rice and wheat. And now it's things

00:37:26.389 --> 00:37:28.449
that we've known for a long time. It's whole

00:37:28.449 --> 00:37:30.489
food, actual real food. That's what you're supposed

00:37:30.489 --> 00:37:33.599
to be eating. The problem is getting people to

00:37:33.599 --> 00:37:36.539
change their habits and change their ways. And

00:37:36.539 --> 00:37:39.139
if people don't start eating good food and if

00:37:39.139 --> 00:37:41.019
people don't start taking care of their body,

00:37:41.639 --> 00:37:45.440
how – what other things can you even imagine

00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:49.039
would shift this trend? Well, here's what's going

00:37:49.039 --> 00:37:52.099
to happen. First of all, the food pyramid. I

00:37:52.099 --> 00:37:55.699
inherited a food pyramid from the first way I

00:37:55.699 --> 00:37:58.780
was – I came into office one year and two weeks

00:37:58.780 --> 00:38:03.480
ago. A week after I got in, I was handed the

00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:05.739
food pyramid that the Biden administration had.

00:38:05.940 --> 00:38:07.739
It wasn't even the food pyramid. They got rid

00:38:07.739 --> 00:38:09.840
of that. They just were doing the dietary guidelines.

00:38:09.940 --> 00:38:12.500
So it was the recommendations that would go be

00:38:12.500 --> 00:38:15.900
reflected in the food pyramid. It was hundreds

00:38:15.900 --> 00:38:20.119
of pages long and it was incomprehensible. And

00:38:20.119 --> 00:38:23.420
it was driven by all the mercantile impulses

00:38:23.420 --> 00:38:25.980
that had corrupted the food pyramid for 50 years.

00:38:27.019 --> 00:38:30.519
And it was written by lobbyists. It was written

00:38:30.519 --> 00:38:33.480
by food industry lobbyists and the same impulse

00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:36.320
that put Froot Loops at the top of the food pyramid,

00:38:36.500 --> 00:38:39.559
which isn't even a food. Froot Loops were at

00:38:39.559 --> 00:38:40.639
the top of the food. Froot Loops were at the

00:38:40.639 --> 00:38:42.800
top recommendation of the food pyramid. You can

00:38:42.800 --> 00:38:46.139
ask them to look up the old food pyramid. I need

00:38:46.139 --> 00:38:48.940
to see where Froot Loops stand. Don't they throw

00:38:48.940 --> 00:38:51.929
some vitamins on Froot Loops? Isn't it like vitamin

00:38:51.929 --> 00:38:55.530
-rich? Oh, yeah. As if that's good for you. It's

00:38:55.530 --> 00:38:58.190
good for you. They add vitamins. Do they even

00:38:58.190 --> 00:39:01.349
add vitamins to cyanide? It's not going to make

00:39:01.349 --> 00:39:04.090
it any better for you. No. No, I'm joking, obviously.

00:39:04.610 --> 00:39:09.949
But it was a ridiculous— So how did— So what

00:39:09.949 --> 00:39:12.590
we did is we got the best nutritionists in the

00:39:12.590 --> 00:39:16.989
country. We got Mark Hyman, and we got the nutritionists

00:39:16.989 --> 00:39:18.710
from the best universities in the country, and

00:39:18.710 --> 00:39:21.610
we put them all in a room. And I thought it was

00:39:21.610 --> 00:39:23.289
going to take a month. It took 11 months because

00:39:23.289 --> 00:39:26.070
they fought over every recommendation and everything

00:39:26.070 --> 00:39:28.489
is cited in the source so that we know we have

00:39:28.489 --> 00:39:30.369
good science. But, you know, some of this stuff,

00:39:30.489 --> 00:39:34.289
because of regulatory malpractice all these years,

00:39:34.349 --> 00:39:36.170
some of the studies simply haven't been done.

00:39:36.230 --> 00:39:39.150
So there are knowledge gaps, which we should

00:39:39.150 --> 00:39:45.710
not have. So now we have a food pyramid. And

00:39:45.710 --> 00:39:49.780
because of the old food pyramid, People didn't

00:39:49.780 --> 00:39:52.159
like the food on it, and they were going to ultra

00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:55.460
-processed food, which was okay on the food pyramid.

00:39:55.659 --> 00:39:58.639
So now 70 % of the food that our kids eat is

00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:00.860
ultra -processed food. 70 % of the calories they

00:40:00.860 --> 00:40:03.679
get, and it's just poisoning them. And they took

00:40:03.679 --> 00:40:06.820
off the good stuff like whole milk, which is

00:40:06.820 --> 00:40:08.880
nutrient -dense, which is feeding their brain.

00:40:08.940 --> 00:40:11.019
We have two generations of kids that grew up

00:40:11.019 --> 00:40:13.480
without milk, without the proper nutrients for

00:40:13.480 --> 00:40:16.119
their brain. We have the first country in the

00:40:16.119 --> 00:40:20.739
face of the earth. It has chronic obesity and

00:40:20.739 --> 00:40:24.400
in the same people, malnutrition. So you have

00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:27.519
immensely obese people and they're malnourished.

00:40:27.639 --> 00:40:30.739
They're medically malnourished. It's because

00:40:30.739 --> 00:40:35.420
the food pyramid was so messed up. So what's

00:40:35.420 --> 00:40:39.280
going to happen now, Joe, is that we are going

00:40:39.280 --> 00:40:40.800
to be able to drive that. We're going to be able

00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:43.179
to change dietary culture. Just the food pyramid

00:40:43.179 --> 00:40:45.400
is going to change dietary culture. And here's

00:40:45.400 --> 00:40:49.349
how. Brooke Rollins, who's an incredible USDA

00:40:49.349 --> 00:40:56.510
secretary, she administers $405 million a day.

00:40:56.570 --> 00:41:00.329
She gives out food subsidies for school lunches,

00:41:00.349 --> 00:41:05.030
the WICS program, the SNAP program, Indian Health

00:41:05.030 --> 00:41:08.730
Services, and all of these other programs. And

00:41:08.730 --> 00:41:14.300
so those programs now are going to get— Good

00:41:14.300 --> 00:41:16.719
food because the dietary guidelines dictate what

00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:20.980
they can and cannot feed kids. Military and the

00:41:20.980 --> 00:41:25.840
VA also are changing. Now, this week I met with

00:41:25.840 --> 00:41:29.659
a guy, Chef Robert Irvine, who is a television

00:41:29.659 --> 00:41:33.639
chef. He's been hired by Pete Hegseth to come

00:41:33.639 --> 00:41:36.719
in and change all the military meals. Military,

00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:40.079
and he's already on five bases. By the end of

00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:43.900
this month, he'll be on 20. What he's done. is

00:41:43.900 --> 00:41:46.460
the food that we give our military is so bad

00:41:46.460 --> 00:41:49.900
they won't eat it. So they're going out and they're

00:41:49.900 --> 00:41:54.559
spending their money on fast food. And fast food

00:41:54.559 --> 00:41:57.900
is not cheap. A Big Mac meal costs $12 to $14.

00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:01.639
It's not a cheap meal. You can get a really good

00:42:01.639 --> 00:42:03.880
food for that price. You could feed yourself

00:42:03.880 --> 00:42:06.840
the whole day for that price with good food.

00:42:07.039 --> 00:42:10.599
Mark Hyman's new book has a diet, $10 a day diet,

00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:15.179
three meals, great food. Anyway, Robert Irvine

00:42:15.179 --> 00:42:17.539
has gone into these places and he gives them

00:42:17.539 --> 00:42:20.539
all fresh food, almost all of it locally sourced.

00:42:21.019 --> 00:42:25.199
As it turns out, it's cheaper. The military is

00:42:25.199 --> 00:42:28.960
spending $18 a day for three meals for each soldier.

00:42:29.800 --> 00:42:33.460
He's spending $10 a day and giving them real

00:42:33.460 --> 00:42:35.760
food, good food. And the lines now are around

00:42:35.760 --> 00:42:38.980
the block and nobody's going to fast food. Everybody's

00:42:38.980 --> 00:42:42.469
fighting to get in. And what he says. is it doesn't

00:42:42.469 --> 00:42:45.550
cause more. We don't need any more money. We

00:42:45.550 --> 00:42:48.329
just need to buy smarter and to be smarter about

00:42:48.329 --> 00:42:52.449
how we do it. And, you know, we're going to be

00:42:52.449 --> 00:42:54.849
able to do that. One of the things that we're

00:42:54.849 --> 00:42:57.170
doing with the dietary guidelines is the SNAP

00:42:57.170 --> 00:43:01.190
program. We have 20 states now that have applied

00:43:01.190 --> 00:43:04.190
for SNAP waivers and have been granted so that

00:43:04.190 --> 00:43:06.670
you can no longer get candy on SNAP. You can

00:43:06.670 --> 00:43:12.010
no longer get soda. That was 18 percent of SNAP

00:43:12.010 --> 00:43:15.289
purchases. So we are taking the 63 million poorest

00:43:15.289 --> 00:43:19.130
kids in our country, giving them taxpayer funded

00:43:19.130 --> 00:43:22.849
diabetes. And then 78 percent of them end up

00:43:22.849 --> 00:43:25.849
on Medicaid. Many of them are being treated for

00:43:25.849 --> 00:43:27.849
diabetes. So we're paying to give them the disease

00:43:27.849 --> 00:43:29.789
and then we're paying to treat them for the rest

00:43:29.789 --> 00:43:32.789
of their lives. And we're changing that. And

00:43:32.789 --> 00:43:35.010
one of the things that Brooke is doing is she's

00:43:35.010 --> 00:43:38.139
going to require that any retailer. that accepts

00:43:38.139 --> 00:43:40.599
food stamps has to double the amount of real

00:43:40.599 --> 00:43:44.260
food in their establishment. We're working with

00:43:44.260 --> 00:43:46.380
farmers, we're working with entrepreneurs to

00:43:46.380 --> 00:43:49.380
make sure every American can get high -quality

00:43:49.380 --> 00:43:52.659
food that is affordable. I don't know how anybody

00:43:52.659 --> 00:43:55.280
would be opposed to that. That all sounds fantastic.

00:43:55.300 --> 00:43:57.780
It's weird that they are. How could you, the

00:43:57.780 --> 00:43:59.519
way you just laid it out, how could anybody be

00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:01.519
opposed to that? That all sounds great. Especially

00:44:01.519 --> 00:44:03.980
for the soldiers. The fact that they were getting

00:44:03.980 --> 00:44:05.940
terrible food that they didn't want to eat is

00:44:05.940 --> 00:44:09.460
just, that's... that's really offensive. You

00:44:09.460 --> 00:44:11.199
think about what you're asking of them and you're

00:44:11.199 --> 00:44:13.039
giving them garbage that they don't even want

00:44:13.039 --> 00:44:16.219
to eat. How do they feel that you care about

00:44:16.219 --> 00:44:18.679
them? Well, and you know, one of the things that

00:44:18.679 --> 00:44:23.699
Robert Irma and the chef told me, he said, you

00:44:23.699 --> 00:44:27.900
know, it costs $9 to get a frozen salmon. It

00:44:27.900 --> 00:44:31.000
costs $6 to get a fresh salmon. So, you know,

00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:36.059
food, good food is actually, if you cook yourself

00:44:36.059 --> 00:44:40.460
at home, The good food is much, much less expensive.

00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:43.639
The problem is Americans have forgotten how to

00:44:43.639 --> 00:44:47.059
cook. And cooking is really important because

00:44:47.059 --> 00:44:51.320
it's important for family cohesion, for a sense

00:44:51.320 --> 00:44:55.960
of community. It's a daily, almost sacred ritual.

00:44:56.340 --> 00:45:01.420
And taking that away from our lives has amplified

00:45:01.420 --> 00:45:03.920
the spiritual malaise that we're in. And one

00:45:03.920 --> 00:45:06.460
of the things we're going to do— is to start

00:45:06.460 --> 00:45:09.920
sending federal workers out to teach people how

00:45:09.920 --> 00:45:12.039
to cook. They don't have the implements. They

00:45:12.039 --> 00:45:13.760
don't have the cutting boards. They don't know

00:45:13.760 --> 00:45:19.480
how to buy groceries. And you can go into any

00:45:19.480 --> 00:45:22.659
big grocery store in this country. If you go

00:45:22.659 --> 00:45:24.460
and buy a steak, it's still pretty expensive.

00:45:25.500 --> 00:45:30.099
But if you buy the cheaper cuts, it's great meat.

00:45:30.730 --> 00:45:33.610
And it is very, very affordable or liver or,

00:45:33.670 --> 00:45:35.650
you know, all these alternatives. Chuck Rose.

00:45:35.750 --> 00:45:38.469
You said, you know, how can you be against that?

00:45:39.750 --> 00:45:43.570
I told you 20 states have applied for the SNAP

00:45:43.570 --> 00:45:45.829
program and we've granted them SNAP waivers.

00:45:46.750 --> 00:45:49.150
Why would you want taxpayer? If you want to drink

00:45:49.150 --> 00:45:51.190
a Coke, you ought to be able to. We live in the

00:45:51.190 --> 00:45:52.829
United States. We're not going to take anything

00:45:52.829 --> 00:45:56.110
away from anybody. But the taxpayer shouldn't

00:45:56.110 --> 00:45:57.829
be paying for it, particularly when we're paying

00:45:57.829 --> 00:46:02.099
for it on the other end in diabetes. So this

00:46:02.099 --> 00:46:05.760
just makes sense to anybody. But 20 states have

00:46:05.760 --> 00:46:09.199
applied. Only two of them are blue states. Bernie

00:46:09.199 --> 00:46:13.000
Sanders has been fighting for this for years.

00:46:13.179 --> 00:46:16.739
But Vermont won't apply for one. And it's all

00:46:16.739 --> 00:46:20.480
partisanship. And they're putting their hatred

00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:24.460
of Donald Trump. ahead of their love for their

00:46:24.460 --> 00:46:27.059
own children. And until we learn to stop doing

00:46:27.059 --> 00:46:29.699
that, this, you know, the health care in this

00:46:29.699 --> 00:46:31.800
country is not going to improve, at least in

00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:35.519
those states. So what strategies, if any, could

00:46:35.519 --> 00:46:38.280
you ever imagine that could be implemented that

00:46:38.280 --> 00:46:40.760
would kind of unite people on these things and

00:46:40.760 --> 00:46:44.659
get them to stop being so partisan about one

00:46:44.659 --> 00:46:46.820
of the most important aspects of being a human

00:46:46.820 --> 00:46:51.110
being is staying healthy? It's like love and

00:46:51.110 --> 00:46:55.170
health. Those are the top ones that we all want.

00:46:55.650 --> 00:46:59.829
It just seems insane. that we would choose this

00:46:59.829 --> 00:47:02.789
as a battleground. And it seems insane that it's

00:47:02.789 --> 00:47:05.409
connected to one party or another. It shouldn't

00:47:05.409 --> 00:47:09.090
be. We should all be united on at least this.

00:47:09.369 --> 00:47:11.730
And I think if people were a little healthier

00:47:11.730 --> 00:47:14.250
and they were a little more fit, they'd probably

00:47:14.250 --> 00:47:17.110
have a lot less anxiety, probably a lot less

00:47:17.110 --> 00:47:20.409
conflict when it comes to political disagreements.

00:47:20.429 --> 00:47:23.670
Things could probably be worked out more amicably,

00:47:23.869 --> 00:47:27.349
especially among friends. It's like having good

00:47:27.349 --> 00:47:29.929
health. improves virtually every aspect of your

00:47:29.929 --> 00:47:35.230
life for everybody. I would say two things. The

00:47:35.230 --> 00:47:38.789
food ties directly into your mental health. Yes.

00:47:38.849 --> 00:47:41.369
And we now know that it's so well documented

00:47:41.369 --> 00:47:44.090
that there's a gut -brain connection and that

00:47:44.090 --> 00:47:48.329
depression, ADHD. Chris Palmer up at Harvard

00:47:48.329 --> 00:47:53.530
is dramatically reducing the symptoms of schizophrenia

00:47:53.530 --> 00:47:56.010
simply by changing people's diets. He's using

00:47:56.010 --> 00:48:00.199
a keto diet. There are— Dramatically? Like what

00:48:00.199 --> 00:48:01.920
kind of percentage? They're losing 30 percent

00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:06.039
of their symptoms. Really? Just from ketones.

00:48:06.039 --> 00:48:07.960
From keto. What about—have they done anything

00:48:07.960 --> 00:48:09.719
with like— If the same thing is true, I mean,

00:48:09.739 --> 00:48:12.599
you know, there are now—there's a big paper about

00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:18.539
to come out. On losing a bipolar diet, a bipolar

00:48:18.539 --> 00:48:21.280
diagnosis, kids who lose bipolar diagnosis simply

00:48:21.280 --> 00:48:24.019
by changing their diet. We know that ADHD is

00:48:24.019 --> 00:48:26.059
driven by all these food dyes and stuff, and

00:48:26.059 --> 00:48:29.320
that's very well documented. There's all of these.

00:48:29.980 --> 00:48:37.059
You go on the Internet and you look for studies

00:48:37.059 --> 00:48:40.000
that show what happens when you change the food

00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:42.500
in prisons and juvenile detention facilities.

00:48:43.690 --> 00:48:47.849
And they, you know, they'll put it in one wing

00:48:47.849 --> 00:48:49.730
of the prison. They'll put good food and then

00:48:49.730 --> 00:48:53.110
they'll put the standard food in the other. And

00:48:53.110 --> 00:48:56.510
the level of violence goes down by 40, 45, 50

00:48:56.510 --> 00:48:59.050
percent. The use of restraints in juvenile detention

00:48:59.050 --> 00:49:03.909
facilities goes down 75 percent. The number of

00:49:03.909 --> 00:49:07.809
incidents dramatically drops. And so it's a public

00:49:07.809 --> 00:49:10.210
safety issue in the prisons. And, you know, I've

00:49:10.210 --> 00:49:13.380
been meeting now with all the prisons. Prisons

00:49:13.380 --> 00:49:15.980
have a real problem because they're allocated

00:49:15.980 --> 00:49:18.659
– the state prisons are allocated 60 cents a

00:49:18.659 --> 00:49:23.820
day to feed the prisoners. And it's all – for

00:49:23.820 --> 00:49:26.440
them it's all about shelf life. So they're just

00:49:26.440 --> 00:49:29.280
feeding them the worst kind of poison that you

00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:31.579
could possibly – it's all just chemicals. Oh,

00:49:31.579 --> 00:49:36.199
my God. But, you know – Well, we've kind of given

00:49:36.199 --> 00:49:38.750
up on the idea of rehabilitation. It's just all

00:49:38.750 --> 00:49:42.030
about punishment. But this is also public safety.

00:49:42.050 --> 00:49:45.710
It's guard safety. And the other thing, the answer

00:49:45.710 --> 00:49:49.070
to your first question about how do you sort

00:49:49.070 --> 00:49:53.050
of, you know, mitigate the polarization, I would

00:49:53.050 --> 00:49:55.809
say the only way that you do that is by getting

00:49:55.809 --> 00:49:58.090
people to start talking to each other. Because

00:49:58.090 --> 00:50:01.989
that, you've got to be able to find common ground

00:50:01.989 --> 00:50:03.889
with other people. And if you don't talk to them,

00:50:03.929 --> 00:50:06.780
you don't see their humanity. Right. And that's

00:50:06.780 --> 00:50:09.420
one of the things that you do that is so great,

00:50:09.579 --> 00:50:12.559
which is you bring a lot of people on here who

00:50:12.559 --> 00:50:14.920
you disagree with and you have a civil conversation

00:50:14.920 --> 00:50:18.760
about them and you show your curiosity about

00:50:18.760 --> 00:50:22.780
them and you get to hear their rationale. And

00:50:22.780 --> 00:50:24.980
a lot of times I'll listen to somebody on this

00:50:24.980 --> 00:50:28.480
show. I'll say, I don't like this guy. And then

00:50:28.480 --> 00:50:30.300
I'll listen to his rationale and I'll think,

00:50:30.440 --> 00:50:33.539
oh, actually he's making a lot of sense. And

00:50:33.539 --> 00:50:37.159
we have to stop. hating people because of the

00:50:37.159 --> 00:50:42.719
label on them and start listening. And it's really

00:50:42.719 --> 00:50:45.699
important we do that now because these algorithms

00:50:45.699 --> 00:50:49.860
are designed to drive us all apart. And we've

00:50:49.860 --> 00:50:54.000
always had political polarization in this country.

00:50:54.099 --> 00:50:56.840
I mean, I grew up during the 60s, and there were

00:50:56.840 --> 00:51:00.500
bombs going off and people being shot. It was

00:51:00.500 --> 00:51:04.039
very, very violent and vitriolic when my dad

00:51:04.039 --> 00:51:08.500
was... And the polarization probably was the

00:51:08.500 --> 00:51:13.940
worst since the American Civil War. But today,

00:51:14.300 --> 00:51:18.099
when it is amplified by the algorithms, it's

00:51:18.099 --> 00:51:20.940
hard to see where it's going to end up in a good

00:51:20.940 --> 00:51:23.019
place unless we start learning to talk to each

00:51:23.019 --> 00:51:25.340
other. It's not just the algorithm. It's also

00:51:25.340 --> 00:51:28.320
the method of communication. When you're only

00:51:28.320 --> 00:51:30.760
talking to people through like angry tweets back

00:51:30.760 --> 00:51:33.280
and forth with each other, you were saying like

00:51:33.280 --> 00:51:35.989
… Sit down and talk to people. No one's doing

00:51:35.989 --> 00:51:39.050
that anymore. There's a few FaceTime conversations

00:51:39.050 --> 00:51:41.309
going on. You see your friends if you go out

00:51:41.309 --> 00:51:43.989
with them. People are not talking that much anymore,

00:51:44.190 --> 00:51:46.210
and they're not sitting down and talking. And

00:51:46.210 --> 00:51:48.369
when you do, everyone's distracted. Everyone

00:51:48.369 --> 00:51:50.010
has their phones out. Everyone's checking text

00:51:50.010 --> 00:51:52.230
messages. I'll tell you one of the most important

00:51:52.230 --> 00:51:54.090
things that we're doing right now as part of

00:51:54.090 --> 00:51:58.050
the MAHA legislation from my agency. We're going

00:51:58.050 --> 00:52:01.590
state by state, and we're asking them. to do

00:52:01.590 --> 00:52:06.929
bell -to -bell legislation. And 26 states have

00:52:06.929 --> 00:52:08.929
now already done it, so more than half the states,

00:52:08.969 --> 00:52:11.070
so that kids can't use cell phones in schools.

00:52:11.969 --> 00:52:14.610
I went to a school in Loudoun County the other

00:52:14.610 --> 00:52:18.449
day, and the states love them. I went to Loudoun

00:52:18.449 --> 00:52:22.489
County, and, you know, the students had fought

00:52:22.489 --> 00:52:26.769
and fought against this, against getting their

00:52:26.769 --> 00:52:30.539
cell phones. The way they do it, all of the schools,

00:52:30.820 --> 00:52:32.739
school districts and states do it differently.

00:52:32.840 --> 00:52:36.159
But in that state, they can bring their cell

00:52:36.159 --> 00:52:37.719
phone to school, but they have to leave it in

00:52:37.719 --> 00:52:41.480
their backpack. And if the parent calls and needs

00:52:41.480 --> 00:52:45.219
to talk to them, they can do it. But I walked

00:52:45.219 --> 00:52:48.039
into a cafeteria, 600 kids in that cafeteria,

00:52:48.280 --> 00:52:50.380
and they're all talking to each other. They're

00:52:50.380 --> 00:52:52.280
sitting across the table. Nobody's looking at

00:52:52.280 --> 00:52:58.210
their laps. The parents came that day. I polled

00:52:58.210 --> 00:53:00.150
the students and I said, how many of you think

00:53:00.150 --> 00:53:02.010
this is a good idea? And they all put their hands

00:53:02.010 --> 00:53:03.989
up and they said, we all hated it for the first

00:53:03.989 --> 00:53:08.070
two weeks and now we love it. The parents said,

00:53:08.230 --> 00:53:11.090
it's the best thing that ever happened. My kid

00:53:11.090 --> 00:53:13.510
is not driving with their cell phone in the car

00:53:13.510 --> 00:53:15.150
anymore because they know they can live without

00:53:15.150 --> 00:53:18.150
it. We're eating dinner with the family and we're

00:53:18.150 --> 00:53:22.119
actually having conversations. And then the teachers

00:53:22.119 --> 00:53:24.340
in the schools love it because the disciplinary

00:53:24.340 --> 00:53:27.239
problems go down and the test scores go through

00:53:27.239 --> 00:53:30.679
the roof because they're focusing on work. So

00:53:30.679 --> 00:53:33.800
it's just like a no -brainer. But again, it's

00:53:33.800 --> 00:53:37.059
the blue states that are the hardest to convince

00:53:37.059 --> 00:53:43.039
to do it because they see it as a Trump part

00:53:43.039 --> 00:53:47.639
of the demonization of Trump being the tyrant

00:53:47.639 --> 00:53:50.869
or whatever. It's just so stupid to not recognize

00:53:50.869 --> 00:53:54.769
the kids are distracted. It's just one of those

00:53:54.769 --> 00:53:57.670
things. Why does that have to be a right or a

00:53:57.670 --> 00:54:00.469
left issue? It's stupid. This is a United States

00:54:00.469 --> 00:54:04.969
issue. The best way to have a group of people

00:54:04.969 --> 00:54:09.150
that succeed in this world is make it as clear

00:54:09.150 --> 00:54:12.070
a path for them as possible. And as soon as you

00:54:12.070 --> 00:54:14.190
allow them to use their phone all day, it's too

00:54:14.190 --> 00:54:17.070
addictive. No one can put them down. You're going

00:54:17.070 --> 00:54:20.250
to lose 30 % of your concentration or more easily,

00:54:20.409 --> 00:54:22.989
I would imagine. The fact that that would be

00:54:22.989 --> 00:54:25.449
a partisan thing is just nuts. It just shows

00:54:25.449 --> 00:54:29.110
how goofy we are. I don't know how you get people

00:54:29.110 --> 00:54:34.510
to talk though. I mean other than – I mean I

00:54:34.510 --> 00:54:38.530
do it on a podcast but that's my job. I don't

00:54:38.530 --> 00:54:40.269
know how many conversations I'd be having with

00:54:40.269 --> 00:54:43.210
people who I was politically opposed to or ideologically

00:54:43.210 --> 00:54:45.969
opposed to or just didn't see eye to eye with

00:54:45.969 --> 00:54:47.929
them and wanted to know how they think. I don't

00:54:47.929 --> 00:54:49.530
know how many opportunities I would ever even

00:54:49.530 --> 00:54:51.829
get to do that. What you're doing is so important

00:54:51.829 --> 00:54:55.489
and now there's a thousand people imitating you.

00:54:56.250 --> 00:55:02.489
really good podcast, but it's teaching people

00:55:02.489 --> 00:55:04.909
to have conversations. I mean, you are the best

00:55:04.909 --> 00:55:08.849
teacher, mentor on that, and people admire you.

00:55:09.849 --> 00:55:15.769
I have seven kids, and they grew up with devices

00:55:15.769 --> 00:55:19.739
and stuff. And I would look, you know, I'd slap

00:55:19.739 --> 00:55:22.860
them out of their hand. And also they couldn't

00:55:22.860 --> 00:55:25.820
concentrate on long, you know, long points, long

00:55:25.820 --> 00:55:27.719
conversations. They're like, get to the point.

00:55:27.800 --> 00:55:30.360
You know, I only got five seconds. You got to

00:55:30.360 --> 00:55:34.219
make your point. And then I see them sitting

00:55:34.219 --> 00:55:36.159
for three and a half hours and listening to a

00:55:36.159 --> 00:55:39.159
Rogan podcast. That was a cultural phenomenon.

00:55:39.559 --> 00:55:43.059
That was a cultural change. This generation of

00:55:43.059 --> 00:55:45.619
kids, I have so much hope for because they grew

00:55:45.619 --> 00:55:48.860
up with that. And, you know, they want it. So

00:55:48.860 --> 00:55:51.099
I do have a lot of hope that we're going to be

00:55:51.099 --> 00:55:53.760
able to do this. And then, you know, I think

00:55:53.760 --> 00:55:56.420
Charlie Kirk did that, too, as an example to

00:55:56.420 --> 00:55:59.300
a lot of those kids. Because whether you agree

00:55:59.300 --> 00:56:01.960
with him or not, and he had very strong opinions

00:56:01.960 --> 00:56:05.260
that people, you know, consider terrible. But

00:56:05.260 --> 00:56:08.550
the one thing that he really did is he. talked

00:56:08.550 --> 00:56:10.670
to people he didn't agree with, and he always

00:56:10.670 --> 00:56:13.530
gave them the microphone and allowed them to

00:56:13.530 --> 00:56:16.469
amplify their voice, and then he had a civility,

00:56:16.590 --> 00:56:19.710
and he talked to them, and he used logic a lot

00:56:19.710 --> 00:56:23.250
of times destructively, but not in an angry way.

00:56:23.889 --> 00:56:27.469
And so I think, you know, he was teaching people

00:56:27.469 --> 00:56:31.650
how to have conversations again. You're teaching

00:56:31.650 --> 00:56:34.090
people how to have conversations again, and it's,

00:56:34.090 --> 00:56:37.559
you know, I think that's... You know, one of

00:56:37.559 --> 00:56:39.500
the big hopes that I have for the future is that

00:56:39.500 --> 00:56:42.019
people learn to talk to each other with people

00:56:42.019 --> 00:56:46.400
with whom they disagree. It would be nice. But

00:56:46.400 --> 00:56:50.079
there's also a real genuine problem today in

00:56:50.079 --> 00:56:54.639
the marketplace of outrage that a lot of people

00:56:54.639 --> 00:56:59.170
… A lot of their podcasts are just focused almost

00:56:59.170 --> 00:57:04.150
entirely on outrage and of like having arguments

00:57:04.150 --> 00:57:06.409
and screaming matches with people and, you know,

00:57:06.409 --> 00:57:10.010
putting people down and not having civil discourse,

00:57:10.110 --> 00:57:12.610
but trying to win, trying to dominate someone

00:57:12.610 --> 00:57:15.349
in an argument, you know, trying to squash people.

00:57:15.789 --> 00:57:18.449
And I guess in a sense, some of that is really

00:57:18.449 --> 00:57:21.710
good because it exposes bad ideas, but it just

00:57:21.710 --> 00:57:24.789
encourages that kind of discourse. where if someone's

00:57:24.789 --> 00:57:26.670
ideologically opposed to you, they are the enemy

00:57:26.670 --> 00:57:28.690
and you want to destroy them. And I'm like...

00:57:29.260 --> 00:57:32.139
OK. They're just a human being. Like find out

00:57:32.139 --> 00:57:35.619
why they got to where they are. That is a different

00:57:35.619 --> 00:57:37.900
perspective than you have and why you got to

00:57:37.900 --> 00:57:39.380
where you are and try to figure out there's a

00:57:39.380 --> 00:57:41.940
middle ground in there. Like what what do you

00:57:41.940 --> 00:57:44.260
believe? Why do you believe that? And find out

00:57:44.260 --> 00:57:47.179
why and ask them and don't don't cut them off.

00:57:47.300 --> 00:57:49.800
Let them talk. Let them express themselves. Help

00:57:49.800 --> 00:57:52.400
them if you can. Try to figure out what makes

00:57:52.400 --> 00:57:56.019
someone actually think instead of just thinking

00:57:56.019 --> 00:57:59.230
that your ideas are a part of you. They're just

00:57:59.230 --> 00:58:03.409
ideas. Like they're not you. Like some ideas

00:58:03.409 --> 00:58:06.250
you can hold in your mind and they're bad for

00:58:06.250 --> 00:58:09.130
you. You haven't examined them. You're acting

00:58:09.130 --> 00:58:11.250
on them like they're doctrine. And then you're

00:58:11.250 --> 00:58:13.630
stuck with that idea because you've already espoused

00:58:13.630 --> 00:58:15.570
it so many times. You don't want to be a flip

00:58:15.570 --> 00:58:18.829
-flopper. And so people get mad. And you get

00:58:18.829 --> 00:58:21.769
this weird cycle of shitty communication and

00:58:21.769 --> 00:58:23.289
nobody ever breaks out of it and nothing ever

00:58:23.289 --> 00:58:25.329
gets done. And there's no common ground that's

00:58:25.329 --> 00:58:27.670
ever achieved. And the only way you're going

00:58:27.670 --> 00:58:29.889
to ever break that is to stop talking to people

00:58:29.889 --> 00:58:33.110
like that. You've got to just talk to them. Instead

00:58:33.110 --> 00:58:35.309
of talk to them like they're the enemy, just

00:58:35.309 --> 00:58:37.369
talk to them like they're a fellow human being

00:58:37.369 --> 00:58:41.809
about some ideas. And just treat them with respect.

00:58:42.329 --> 00:58:45.630
Talk to them like a person that in any other

00:58:45.630 --> 00:58:47.530
circumstance maybe even could be your friend.

00:58:47.809 --> 00:58:50.969
Just talk to them. People can do that. It's possible.

00:58:51.150 --> 00:58:53.030
It just takes discipline. You have to learn how

00:58:53.030 --> 00:58:55.289
to do it. It took me a while. It took me a long

00:58:55.289 --> 00:58:57.610
time to learn how to talk to people better. But

00:58:57.610 --> 00:59:01.460
it can be done. It's technique. But as prevalent

00:59:01.460 --> 00:59:06.599
as that kind of vitriol is in the podcast world,

00:59:06.820 --> 00:59:12.460
it's incomparable to what's happening on television

00:59:12.460 --> 00:59:15.099
because there are no conversations on television.

00:59:15.139 --> 00:59:16.960
Right. That's more of what I was getting at,

00:59:17.019 --> 00:59:19.139
honestly, is there's some shows that do that.

00:59:19.159 --> 00:59:21.099
But like some of these CNN shows, it's just these

00:59:21.099 --> 00:59:25.320
crazy ideological battles. And yet also, guys.

00:59:25.849 --> 00:59:28.730
Pro tip, you can't have fucking six people at

00:59:28.730 --> 00:59:31.250
a table all yelling out for seven minutes. You

00:59:31.250 --> 00:59:32.909
don't have enough time to get a real point across,

00:59:33.130 --> 00:59:35.210
and it becomes a battle of, like, who's got the

00:59:35.210 --> 00:59:38.030
best prepared sound bites or who's got the best

00:59:38.030 --> 00:59:41.909
snarky quip. It's stupid. It's a stupid way to

00:59:41.909 --> 00:59:45.670
talk about things. I mean, Cheryl went on— The

00:59:45.670 --> 00:59:50.650
View? Yeah, The View. And it was that. It wasn't

00:59:50.650 --> 00:59:56.420
like— Like you say, let's have a congenial conversation

00:59:56.420 --> 01:00:01.420
with people and allow them to express themselves

01:00:01.420 --> 01:00:05.800
and to be fun and funny. Yes. Yeah, well, just

01:00:05.800 --> 01:00:08.199
have a conversation with someone. If you disagree

01:00:08.199 --> 01:00:10.380
with them about certain things, like they disagree

01:00:10.380 --> 01:00:12.719
with her, it would have been far more productive

01:00:12.719 --> 01:00:15.699
to have a one -on -one conversation instead of

01:00:15.699 --> 01:00:18.420
this gaggle of hands squawking all at her. It's

01:00:18.420 --> 01:00:20.460
just like you see it over and over again when

01:00:20.460 --> 01:00:22.900
they oppose somebody. It's like they're all chiming

01:00:22.900 --> 01:00:25.340
in and it's just not. The way you could ever

01:00:25.340 --> 01:00:28.059
like thoroughly cover a subject and they're limited

01:00:28.059 --> 01:00:30.880
by their format. That format is very limiting.

01:00:31.159 --> 01:00:34.679
It's a shitty format where you go to a commercial.

01:00:35.849 --> 01:00:37.630
predetermined times, period, no matter what.

01:00:37.969 --> 01:00:40.130
Like maybe you got a little leeway here or there,

01:00:40.230 --> 01:00:42.110
but you've got to get that commercial in. And

01:00:42.110 --> 01:00:43.610
that's crazy because if you're in the middle

01:00:43.610 --> 01:00:46.389
of talking, a lot of points take a long time

01:00:46.389 --> 01:00:48.710
to flesh out. Like just think about all the stuff

01:00:48.710 --> 01:00:51.409
you just explained about Medicaid. Imagine if

01:00:51.409 --> 01:00:54.230
you try to do that. You can't. You can't. You

01:00:54.230 --> 01:00:57.110
can't do it. And they would try to stop you.

01:00:57.190 --> 01:00:58.849
You're too in the weeds. No one's going to pay

01:00:58.849 --> 01:01:01.449
attention to this. It's like I don't think that's

01:01:01.449 --> 01:01:03.960
true, and I think we've learned that. because

01:01:03.960 --> 01:01:06.420
of podcasts because there was no production there

01:01:06.420 --> 01:01:08.539
was no executives there was no one there people

01:01:08.539 --> 01:01:11.420
were just putting on a webcam and talking and

01:01:11.420 --> 01:01:13.940
so we realized like well people actually do like

01:01:13.940 --> 01:01:16.420
conversations still they just don't get a lot

01:01:16.420 --> 01:01:19.800
of them not real ones you know you get interviews

01:01:19.800 --> 01:01:21.960
where someone has like a sheet of questions you

01:01:21.960 --> 01:01:25.619
know you get where someone is playing a role.

01:01:25.780 --> 01:01:28.880
You're playing a role of a person who interviews

01:01:28.880 --> 01:01:30.739
people. You don't really give a shit about what

01:01:30.739 --> 01:01:33.679
this person has to say. But people do want connection.

01:01:33.760 --> 01:01:36.599
They still do. And the fact that we don't get

01:01:36.599 --> 01:01:38.639
it from social media, but most of our time is

01:01:38.639 --> 01:01:42.679
in social media, is just accelerating this detachment

01:01:42.679 --> 01:01:45.250
we have from each other. And that's what people

01:01:45.250 --> 01:01:46.869
have to get past. I don't know how to do it.

01:01:47.230 --> 01:01:49.650
Tell everybody to start their own podcast. You

01:01:49.650 --> 01:01:51.510
know, you and I were talking before we came in

01:01:51.510 --> 01:01:54.550
here about Larry King. Yes. He did that. There

01:01:54.550 --> 01:01:58.730
were a lot of people in the 70s and 80s, David

01:01:58.730 --> 01:02:02.590
Susskind and, you know, all of these other people

01:02:02.590 --> 01:02:06.030
who were actually having conversations. Yeah,

01:02:06.030 --> 01:02:08.550
Larry King was great. Dick Cavett. I love when

01:02:08.550 --> 01:02:11.460
he asked DJ Khaled. how'd you gain all the weight?

01:02:11.739 --> 01:02:15.440
What did he say? He said, I ate too much. What

01:02:15.440 --> 01:02:18.159
do you want me to say? That's such a crazy question.

01:02:18.420 --> 01:02:20.480
How did you gain all the weight? Like, what,

01:02:20.579 --> 01:02:23.000
Larry? What are you talking about? That's crazy.

01:02:23.019 --> 01:02:25.860
That's a wild question to ask someone. But, you

01:02:25.860 --> 01:02:27.119
know, he would just have a conversation with

01:02:27.119 --> 01:02:29.880
you, you know, and I think people have a hunger

01:02:29.880 --> 01:02:33.139
for that. And a lot of this infighting comes

01:02:33.139 --> 01:02:35.829
from no face -to -face communication. I think

01:02:35.829 --> 01:02:37.730
when people get a chance, especially if it's

01:02:37.730 --> 01:02:39.889
not performative, that's part of the problem

01:02:39.889 --> 01:02:42.030
with the Charlie Kirk stuff or some of the other

01:02:42.030 --> 01:02:44.469
things that people do in front of a crowd. Things

01:02:44.469 --> 01:02:46.269
become very performative when there's a bunch

01:02:46.269 --> 01:02:48.650
of people watching and cheering and then you

01:02:48.650 --> 01:02:51.130
know how the audience feels and you play to them

01:02:51.130 --> 01:02:54.170
a little bit. That's probably not the best way

01:02:54.170 --> 01:02:57.010
to talk about stuff. And I think human beings

01:02:57.010 --> 01:02:59.969
naturally understand one -on -one conversations.

01:03:00.090 --> 01:03:03.269
We've had them for all of human history. So when

01:03:03.269 --> 01:03:06.909
you get a... chance to hear people talk one -on

01:03:06.909 --> 01:03:10.050
-one for hours at a time, it expands your understanding

01:03:10.050 --> 01:03:13.849
of the world. Now I know how you feel about things.

01:03:13.989 --> 01:03:16.809
I know, at least for this brief three -hour conversation,

01:03:17.090 --> 01:03:19.630
I get more of a sense of how you approach things.

01:03:19.849 --> 01:03:21.949
And then people put that into their own mind

01:03:21.949 --> 01:03:23.269
and go, maybe I should approach things a little

01:03:23.269 --> 01:03:25.170
bit differently. Maybe I should think about things

01:03:25.170 --> 01:03:28.150
a little bit differently. And we miss that. We're

01:03:28.150 --> 01:03:31.190
missing that. And social media robs you of that.

01:03:31.230 --> 01:03:34.849
It gives you the exact opposite of that. Yeah.

01:03:35.530 --> 01:03:38.469
Yeah. I mean, you know what Charlie Kirk was

01:03:38.469 --> 01:03:42.789
doing? You're right. You know, it was it was

01:03:42.789 --> 01:03:46.130
less of a conversation and more of a sometimes

01:03:46.130 --> 01:03:48.789
it was like in the ring. You know, it was like

01:03:48.789 --> 01:03:53.019
being in a ring. But. It's a lot better than

01:03:53.019 --> 01:03:55.500
what's happening elsewhere, which is just blanket

01:03:55.500 --> 01:03:58.500
censorship of people and not any willingness

01:03:58.500 --> 01:04:01.780
to just shutting people down and canceling them.

01:04:02.000 --> 01:04:04.539
Yeah, 100 percent. Well, that's another weird

01:04:04.539 --> 01:04:06.920
thing that that's a Democratic Party impulse

01:04:06.920 --> 01:04:10.079
because. It was the opposite of the Democratic

01:04:10.079 --> 01:04:13.519
Party I grew up with, you know, which was unafraid

01:04:13.519 --> 01:04:16.639
of any debate. My uncle, my father said we should

01:04:16.639 --> 01:04:18.860
be able to debate. We should be able to win these

01:04:18.860 --> 01:04:22.440
debates in the marketplace of ideas. If we can't,

01:04:22.440 --> 01:04:24.659
then we need to examine ourselves. It was a core

01:04:24.659 --> 01:04:27.659
tenet of the Democratic Party. Yeah. And, you

01:04:27.659 --> 01:04:30.519
know, the unfortunate shift in that, it's just

01:04:30.519 --> 01:04:34.159
like, you know, I remember during the Bush administration

01:04:34.159 --> 01:04:37.300
when the FCC was going after Howard Stern. It

01:04:37.300 --> 01:04:39.260
was it was this huge thing. They were trying

01:04:39.260 --> 01:04:40.800
to close down Howard Stern because Howard Stern

01:04:40.800 --> 01:04:44.159
was very critical of Bush. And it was like he

01:04:44.159 --> 01:04:46.239
was the guy out there fighting for free speech.

01:04:46.260 --> 01:04:48.880
And they were getting fined like enormous fines,

01:04:49.000 --> 01:04:52.039
enormous fines for things that he had said. You

01:04:52.039 --> 01:04:54.639
know, they deemed to be obscene, you know, and

01:04:54.639 --> 01:04:57.800
that was a right wing thing. And we always thought

01:04:57.800 --> 01:05:01.260
of it as a right wing thing. And when you see

01:05:01.260 --> 01:05:05.900
what's happening today. Just like any the wanting

01:05:05.900 --> 01:05:10.139
silence of your political opponents is the. dumbest

01:05:10.139 --> 01:05:13.960
way to cut off your own hand. It's so dumb because

01:05:13.960 --> 01:05:16.199
if you can't see that this could be used against

01:05:16.199 --> 01:05:18.099
you, if someone else gets into a position of

01:05:18.099 --> 01:05:20.480
power, if all of a sudden some enormous right

01:05:20.480 --> 01:05:22.960
-wing corporation buys these social media platforms

01:05:22.960 --> 01:05:26.599
and only pushes right -wing agendas and silences

01:05:26.599 --> 01:05:28.579
all left -wing agendas, like, do you know how

01:05:28.579 --> 01:05:31.239
fucking crazy that is to just give that kind

01:05:31.239 --> 01:05:34.800
of power willingly to an anonymous group of people

01:05:34.800 --> 01:05:37.239
that you supposedly align to because you're in

01:05:37.239 --> 01:05:39.059
the same tribe? It's the dumbest thing ever.

01:05:39.079 --> 01:05:41.579
And the fact that people on the left weren't

01:05:41.579 --> 01:05:44.860
outraged when they read the Twitter files and

01:05:44.860 --> 01:05:47.699
found out how much involvement there was in silencing

01:05:47.699 --> 01:05:51.440
real information and removing people who were

01:05:51.440 --> 01:05:53.099
from Stanford and MIT. The White House ordered

01:05:53.099 --> 01:05:56.079
me to be removed from Instagram. I lost a million

01:05:56.079 --> 01:06:01.219
followers. Insane. 37 hours after he took the

01:06:01.219 --> 01:06:04.800
oath of office, swearing to uphold the Constitution,

01:06:05.079 --> 01:06:07.139
they were ordering Mark Zuckerberg to take me

01:06:07.139 --> 01:06:09.780
down. And then you look at what's happening in

01:06:09.780 --> 01:06:12.639
England now, you know, people going to jail for

01:06:12.639 --> 01:06:16.559
Twitter posts. Twelve thousand people this year.

01:06:17.000 --> 01:06:19.980
Twelve thousand in the last year. And this was

01:06:19.980 --> 01:06:22.880
the Magna Carta was, you know, written. And now

01:06:22.880 --> 01:06:26.420
there's now it's just a. It's just a dictatorship.

01:06:26.639 --> 01:06:28.920
Well, they got rid of trial by jury except for

01:06:28.920 --> 01:06:31.659
murder and rape and a couple other things. Now

01:06:31.659 --> 01:06:34.400
it's just a judge. So, you know, whatever it

01:06:34.400 --> 01:06:36.940
is, if it's a social media infraction, if it's

01:06:36.940 --> 01:06:40.380
there's no reasonable, you know, judge by jury

01:06:40.380 --> 01:06:43.280
of your peers. No, you're you're you're getting

01:06:43.280 --> 01:06:47.019
judged by a judge. And that's not Soviet system.

01:06:47.099 --> 01:06:49.340
It's like Kafka. I just can't believe how quick

01:06:49.340 --> 01:06:52.570
it happened. When you look at the social media

01:06:52.570 --> 01:06:55.969
arrests, they were always disturbing. Like if

01:06:55.969 --> 01:06:58.429
you go back even four or five years, they had

01:06:58.429 --> 01:07:01.210
quite a few of them a year. But it really ramped

01:07:01.210 --> 01:07:03.289
up, really ramped up over the last year or so.

01:07:03.369 --> 01:07:06.250
And it's just insane to watch. And a lot of it

01:07:06.250 --> 01:07:08.969
is criticism of immigration, like legitimate

01:07:08.969 --> 01:07:11.769
criticism of immigration and legitimate criticism

01:07:11.769 --> 01:07:15.989
of crimes that have been committed. And people

01:07:15.989 --> 01:07:20.820
outraged, which is completely normal. Doing anything

01:07:20.820 --> 01:07:23.260
about that, they want to arrest people for complaining,

01:07:23.539 --> 01:07:30.059
and it's just really weird to watch. Yeah. It's

01:07:30.059 --> 01:07:40.659
going to get worse with the AI. It's scary. Well,

01:07:40.679 --> 01:07:43.380
it's just strange that they couldn't do anything

01:07:43.380 --> 01:07:45.460
to stop that from happening and that anybody.

01:07:46.010 --> 01:07:48.650
anybody that's reasonable would be willing to

01:07:48.650 --> 01:07:51.250
let that happen because their side is imposing

01:07:51.250 --> 01:07:55.269
it. That seems like an existential threat to

01:07:55.269 --> 01:07:59.050
all critical thinking, all communication and

01:07:59.050 --> 01:08:01.809
debate. As soon as you start arresting people

01:08:01.809 --> 01:08:06.090
for opinions, that's crazy. You're getting nuts.

01:08:06.250 --> 01:08:08.349
Anything that you deem might incite violence

01:08:08.349 --> 01:08:12.239
or outrage. People are outraged. They have a

01:08:12.239 --> 01:08:15.239
right to be outraged. If you can put them in

01:08:15.239 --> 01:08:18.319
a cage because they're outraged, that's nuts.

01:08:19.100 --> 01:08:21.100
That's really nuts. Now they have a pub law.

01:08:21.319 --> 01:08:23.880
Do you know this one? No. Oh, find that, Jamie.

01:08:24.520 --> 01:08:26.479
They're trying to pass this thing. I don't know

01:08:26.479 --> 01:08:30.520
if they passed it, where someone's – I don't

01:08:30.520 --> 01:08:32.180
want to speak out of turn. I don't want to fuck

01:08:32.180 --> 01:08:35.439
this up because it was disturbing enough without

01:08:35.439 --> 01:08:40.210
me misinterpreting it. But the idea was – To

01:08:40.210 --> 01:08:43.170
stop people from saying things on social media

01:08:43.170 --> 01:08:45.250
that you get arrest for, stop them from saying

01:08:45.250 --> 01:08:49.729
those kind of things in pubs. Where is this?

01:08:49.729 --> 01:08:53.289
In England? Yes. See if you can find it. I know

01:08:53.289 --> 01:08:55.390
I saved it, but it'll take me too long to pull

01:08:55.390 --> 01:08:58.829
it up. You find anything like that? I'm trying

01:08:58.829 --> 01:09:04.439
to make sure it's... Legit? Yeah. I mean... I

01:09:04.439 --> 01:09:06.460
wouldn't imagine it's not. I mean, it's not outside

01:09:06.460 --> 01:09:09.500
the realm of what they're capable of doing if

01:09:09.500 --> 01:09:11.460
they're arresting 12 ,000 people a year for social

01:09:11.460 --> 01:09:16.539
media posts. If that was happening in America

01:09:16.539 --> 01:09:18.300
and they were only arresting Republicans, I don't

01:09:18.300 --> 01:09:20.000
think you'd hear a peep out of the Democrats.

01:09:20.119 --> 01:09:21.960
I think they think it's important. We have to

01:09:21.960 --> 01:09:26.640
stop misinformation. Yeah. It passed? No, I don't

01:09:26.640 --> 01:09:28.220
think it passed. You don't think it passed? I'm

01:09:28.220 --> 01:09:30.859
not going to find out if it passed or not. Okay,

01:09:30.920 --> 01:09:33.300
so what is the act? What were they? Legislation.

01:09:40.939 --> 01:09:43.279
What was the, what were they trying to, okay,

01:09:43.359 --> 01:09:46.960
point, free speech in UK pubs, employer responsibilities.

01:09:47.399 --> 01:09:49.840
It requires employers to take reasonable steps

01:09:49.840 --> 01:09:51.779
to prevent staff from experiencing harassment

01:09:51.779 --> 01:09:54.439
by third parties such as customers. Well, that's

01:09:54.439 --> 01:09:57.439
normal, right? You don't want to be harassed

01:09:57.439 --> 01:09:59.300
by a customer. Concerns have been raised that

01:09:59.300 --> 01:10:02.359
debates on, for instance, gender identity or

01:10:02.359 --> 01:10:04.760
political matters could lead to staff complaints,

01:10:05.039 --> 01:10:07.460
resulting in patrons being asked to leave if

01:10:07.460 --> 01:10:10.000
the behavior is deemed aggressive or harassing.

01:10:13.000 --> 01:10:15.680
It should not be misinterpreted as a ban on lawful,

01:10:15.779 --> 01:10:18.899
polite, or controversial speech. Who's to decide

01:10:18.899 --> 01:10:21.539
what's controversial, though? Third -party harassment.

01:10:21.619 --> 01:10:23.659
Legislation focuses on addressing harassment

01:10:23.659 --> 01:10:26.619
rather than banning specific topics of conversation

01:10:26.619 --> 01:10:30.340
entirely. Just any regulation of conversation

01:10:30.340 --> 01:10:33.460
is nuts. It's one thing you're harassing the

01:10:33.460 --> 01:10:36.939
staff. I've never known a pub owner who would

01:10:36.939 --> 01:10:41.659
allow. people to come in and harass his staff

01:10:41.659 --> 01:10:45.359
he already has an economic and management incentive

01:10:45.359 --> 01:10:47.899
to not allow that you know it's not the kind

01:10:47.899 --> 01:10:49.979
of thing you need to legislate but to say that

01:10:49.979 --> 01:10:51.880
someone doesn't feel safe if people are having

01:10:51.880 --> 01:10:54.760
a civil conversation about gender identity you

01:10:54.760 --> 01:10:56.840
don't feel safe if you work there and that you're

01:10:56.840 --> 01:10:58.920
getting harassed by people's opinions that you

01:10:58.920 --> 01:11:00.600
don't agree with well that's where things get

01:11:00.600 --> 01:11:04.100
weird because then And as we've seen, there's

01:11:04.100 --> 01:11:06.279
a lot of people that get really triggered about

01:11:06.279 --> 01:11:09.439
a lot of things that are pretty normal for most

01:11:09.439 --> 01:11:12.119
folks. You know, microaggressions, dumb shit.

01:11:12.380 --> 01:11:14.439
There's a lot of people that just want to be

01:11:14.439 --> 01:11:18.720
offended. And if this is a law, that could lead

01:11:18.720 --> 01:11:20.600
to a lot more problems. It's just a slippery

01:11:20.600 --> 01:11:22.579
slope and they're not going in the right direction.

01:11:22.699 --> 01:11:25.000
And I don't know how they course correct if they've

01:11:25.000 --> 01:11:27.939
fallen this far that quickly. 12 ,000 arrests

01:11:27.939 --> 01:11:30.930
is crazy. That's a crazy amount of people go

01:11:30.930 --> 01:11:35.810
to jail for social media posts. And it encourages

01:11:35.810 --> 01:11:37.970
self -censorship so you don't get a real sense

01:11:37.970 --> 01:11:40.789
of what people want or don't want. Because people

01:11:40.789 --> 01:11:42.149
don't want to be involved. They don't want to

01:11:42.149 --> 01:11:43.729
go to jail. They don't want to take a chance.

01:11:45.529 --> 01:11:49.390
The framers of the Constitution, free speech

01:11:49.390 --> 01:11:51.130
was everything to them. And they put it in the

01:11:51.130 --> 01:11:53.029
First Amendment because they knew all the other

01:11:53.029 --> 01:11:59.489
rights and guarantees were dependent on it. If

01:11:59.489 --> 01:12:03.109
you have a government that can silence its opponents,

01:12:03.310 --> 01:12:07.869
it has a license for any kind of atrocity. It's

01:12:07.869 --> 01:12:10.329
just shocking that all other Western nations

01:12:10.329 --> 01:12:14.149
haven't adopted that. Well, most of them don't

01:12:14.149 --> 01:12:19.090
have constitutions. It's so crazy. It's just

01:12:19.090 --> 01:12:22.270
so ridiculous. It's so ridiculous that free speech,

01:12:22.430 --> 01:12:25.329
which is like we all agree, especially in America,

01:12:25.409 --> 01:12:26.750
it's one of the most important things, the only

01:12:26.750 --> 01:12:30.539
way to find out what's real and what's not. You

01:12:30.539 --> 01:12:33.439
got to let people talk it out, you know? I mean,

01:12:33.560 --> 01:12:35.920
when you're living in a world where the government

01:12:35.920 --> 01:12:39.760
has the power to dictate what's real and what's

01:12:39.760 --> 01:12:41.380
not real, and they don't have an obligation to

01:12:41.380 --> 01:12:44.359
be correct, you got a real problem. And if there's

01:12:44.359 --> 01:12:46.619
no consequences for them being incorrect and

01:12:46.619 --> 01:12:50.079
they've silenced correct speech, they've gotten

01:12:50.079 --> 01:12:52.159
away with something that's real slippery and

01:12:52.159 --> 01:12:53.880
real dangerous. And when there's a lot of money

01:12:53.880 --> 01:12:56.159
involved and a lot of businesses involved...

01:12:56.159 --> 01:12:59.340
I typed it into perplexity and it... This gives

01:12:59.340 --> 01:13:02.079
a little context on it because the pubs were

01:13:02.079 --> 01:13:05.859
the same. The pub thing reverses a 2013 removal

01:13:05.859 --> 01:13:09.039
of third party harassment liability, making pubs

01:13:09.039 --> 01:13:12.180
liable if staffs overhear comments deemed harassing

01:13:12.180 --> 01:13:14.199
based on protected characteristics like sexual

01:13:14.199 --> 01:13:18.260
race. Critics call it a banter ban, fearing landlords

01:13:18.260 --> 01:13:21.380
will police conversations to avoid lawsuits,

01:13:21.680 --> 01:13:24.859
chilling speech in social venues. That makes

01:13:24.859 --> 01:13:27.029
it sound like if someone was doing that. the

01:13:27.029 --> 01:13:30.149
business was getting in trouble versus the person

01:13:30.149 --> 01:13:34.810
who was saying it. Right. So they removed a third

01:13:34.810 --> 01:13:37.149
-party harassment liability. So they removed

01:13:37.149 --> 01:13:41.130
the pub owner being in trouble. They removed

01:13:41.130 --> 01:13:46.130
that. Because it says it passed when I was looking

01:13:46.130 --> 01:13:47.890
it up. It said it passed a couple months ago.

01:13:48.010 --> 01:13:52.789
So that makes pub owners liable again. So removed

01:13:52.789 --> 01:13:56.090
a 2013 removal of third -party harassment liability.

01:13:56.489 --> 01:13:57.649
Made them liable. I don't think – I think it's

01:13:57.649 --> 01:14:00.630
back to – reverses that, reverses making them

01:14:00.630 --> 01:14:04.310
liable. No, no, no. No, it reverses the removal

01:14:04.310 --> 01:14:07.090
of the third -party harassment liability. So

01:14:07.090 --> 01:14:10.130
they removed the liability, now making pubs liable.

01:14:11.029 --> 01:14:13.270
So it now makes them liable if they overhear

01:14:13.270 --> 01:14:15.409
comments. So what this does is it encourages

01:14:15.409 --> 01:14:19.670
the pub itself to censor people, which makes

01:14:19.670 --> 01:14:22.100
sense. I mean if you all of a sudden can now

01:14:22.100 --> 01:14:25.000
sue a pub that you went into and you didn't like

01:14:25.000 --> 01:14:27.159
this conversation about gender identity that

01:14:27.159 --> 01:14:29.579
was taking place next to you, you have the basis

01:14:29.579 --> 01:14:32.180
of a lawsuit now. Yes. So now the incentive is.

01:14:33.239 --> 01:14:36.659
The pub owner to go out and police all the conversations

01:14:36.659 --> 01:14:40.899
so that if anybody if anybody crosses a guardrail,

01:14:41.039 --> 01:14:43.119
you know, the pub owner now has to go in and

01:14:43.119 --> 01:14:45.520
interrupt them, which is not a good thing. If

01:14:45.520 --> 01:14:47.859
you weren't a charitable person, you could imagine

01:14:47.859 --> 01:14:50.600
that there are certain groups that would have

01:14:50.600 --> 01:14:54.619
people go to places, have conversations and set

01:14:54.619 --> 01:14:58.239
up a lawsuit. You could just you could commit

01:14:58.239 --> 01:15:02.569
fraud if the pub is liable. You pay some kook

01:15:02.569 --> 01:15:05.090
to go in there and start yelling about transsexuals,

01:15:05.090 --> 01:15:07.510
and then next thing you know, you collect a lawsuit.

01:15:08.750 --> 01:15:11.890
That's not outside of what I think a shady person

01:15:11.890 --> 01:15:13.869
would do. If you think about what you've just

01:15:13.869 --> 01:15:15.850
talked about with all the Medicare fraud and

01:15:15.850 --> 01:15:17.649
all the other fraud that we know has happened

01:15:17.649 --> 01:15:21.970
in the world, this is a giant loophole. This

01:15:21.970 --> 01:15:23.590
is a giant loophole for people to come in and

01:15:23.590 --> 01:15:26.250
sue people and silence everybody's speech. And

01:15:26.250 --> 01:15:29.130
the fact that this is a... Not being recognized.

01:15:29.270 --> 01:15:31.750
It's very disturbing that people don't understand

01:15:31.750 --> 01:15:34.869
human behavior. Very weird. They're willing to

01:15:34.869 --> 01:15:41.229
accept this kind of stuff. When you look at the

01:15:41.229 --> 01:15:43.770
challenges of getting things done, what has been

01:15:43.770 --> 01:15:47.529
the most frustrating in terms of what you wanted

01:15:47.529 --> 01:15:49.630
to get done and what you were actually able to

01:15:49.630 --> 01:15:52.630
get done or in the process of getting done? I

01:15:52.630 --> 01:15:57.010
mean. I've been surprised by how much President

01:15:57.010 --> 01:16:00.350
Trump has supported me on this stuff. Because,

01:16:00.430 --> 01:16:04.250
you know, I'm going after the biggest, you know,

01:16:04.270 --> 01:16:10.609
big pharma, big insurance. Big food. Big food.

01:16:11.670 --> 01:16:15.390
And these have all been, you know, those were

01:16:15.390 --> 01:16:18.170
all taboos for every administration, Democratic,

01:16:18.470 --> 01:16:20.550
Republican. There was little incremental things

01:16:20.550 --> 01:16:24.270
that you could do. under Democratic administrations,

01:16:24.270 --> 01:16:26.789
but nothing like this has ever happened. You

01:16:26.789 --> 01:16:30.310
know, I mean, the agreement we made with the

01:16:30.310 --> 01:16:32.470
pharmaceutical industry could not have happened

01:16:32.470 --> 01:16:35.189
under any other president. The MFN agreement,

01:16:35.409 --> 01:16:38.449
the most favored nation. And the way that that

01:16:38.449 --> 01:16:42.369
worked is, you know, we've been paying for the

01:16:42.369 --> 01:16:44.430
last 40 years the highest price in the world

01:16:44.430 --> 01:16:51.010
for medicine. We have 4 .2 percent of the world's

01:16:51.010 --> 01:16:54.850
population here and over 70 percent of pharmaceutical

01:16:54.850 --> 01:16:57.210
profits and revenues come from the United States.

01:16:57.909 --> 01:17:01.090
Why is that? We do buy more drugs than anybody,

01:17:01.350 --> 01:17:04.689
but it's because we pay higher prices. We pay

01:17:04.689 --> 01:17:07.789
two to three to five times what they're paying

01:17:07.789 --> 01:17:12.390
in Europe. For example, and President Trump likes

01:17:12.390 --> 01:17:15.770
to talk about this. At Ozempic, the list price

01:17:15.770 --> 01:17:20.609
was $1 ,350 in America. You could buy the same

01:17:20.609 --> 01:17:25.930
drug in any pharmacy in London for $88. And it's

01:17:25.930 --> 01:17:30.189
made in the same factory in New Jersey. And the

01:17:30.189 --> 01:17:32.930
reason that was allowed to happen is the Europeans

01:17:32.930 --> 01:17:35.010
just said, we're not going to allow, we're not

01:17:35.010 --> 01:17:36.630
going to pay any more for it. They would set

01:17:36.630 --> 01:17:38.850
the price. And that was the maximum. There's

01:17:38.850 --> 01:17:40.449
a lot of drugs they don't have. There's a lot

01:17:40.449 --> 01:17:43.069
of cancer drugs. They don't have in Europe because

01:17:43.069 --> 01:17:49.010
they just wouldn't pay the price. And so President

01:17:49.010 --> 01:17:51.470
Trump, you know, every president has vowed to

01:17:51.470 --> 01:17:56.569
stop this. Clinton tried to stop it. Obama, Bush,

01:17:56.869 --> 01:18:01.810
all of them tried. And Biden all said, we're

01:18:01.810 --> 01:18:04.310
going to get rid of the MFN price. And none of

01:18:04.310 --> 01:18:06.930
them did anything on it. And President Trump

01:18:06.930 --> 01:18:11.289
literally called me sometimes once a day, called

01:18:11.289 --> 01:18:15.689
late at night, 1130 at night, and, you know,

01:18:15.689 --> 01:18:19.930
say, where are you on MFN? And we ended up getting

01:18:19.930 --> 01:18:23.350
the, it seemed to me even, it seemed insurmountable.

01:18:24.109 --> 01:18:28.170
But he said, I'm going to use tariffs. I'm going

01:18:28.170 --> 01:18:30.869
to force the Europeans to raise their drug prices.

01:18:31.390 --> 01:18:34.050
And because he didn't want to, he didn't, we

01:18:34.050 --> 01:18:37.460
had enough leverage. on the pharmaceutical companies

01:18:37.460 --> 01:18:39.800
because of our Medicaid and Medicare programs.

01:18:40.779 --> 01:18:43.539
We could pretty much force them to lower their

01:18:43.539 --> 01:18:46.340
prices. But it would put them out of business.

01:18:47.039 --> 01:18:50.579
And he wants us to continue to be the center

01:18:50.579 --> 01:18:53.140
for innovation in this country. And he also wanted

01:18:53.140 --> 01:18:56.859
the companies to reshore all their production

01:18:56.859 --> 01:18:58.939
so that we're making all the drugs here and they're

01:18:58.939 --> 01:19:02.020
not making it elsewhere in the world. And so

01:19:02.020 --> 01:19:06.159
we sat down with them for months. We came to

01:19:06.159 --> 01:19:08.819
agreements with 16 of the 17 pharmaceutical companies.

01:19:09.819 --> 01:19:12.539
Now Americans are getting the lowest prices in

01:19:12.539 --> 01:19:14.899
the world. If somebody lowers the price in Europe,

01:19:14.939 --> 01:19:18.460
we get that price or lower. And people can get

01:19:18.460 --> 01:19:21.399
that today on Trump Rx. They can go for the most

01:19:21.399 --> 01:19:23.539
popular medications and get the cheapest price

01:19:23.539 --> 01:19:27.199
in the world. And not only that, but the pharmaceutical

01:19:27.199 --> 01:19:29.619
industry, because we gave them certainty and

01:19:29.619 --> 01:19:32.359
because President Trump forced the European countries

01:19:32.359 --> 01:19:34.880
to raise the price that their citizens pay for

01:19:34.880 --> 01:19:40.100
drugs, the companies actually did well. They

01:19:40.100 --> 01:19:44.500
increased stock values by $1 .3 trillion among

01:19:44.500 --> 01:19:47.590
them. And they've all agreed to ensure their

01:19:47.590 --> 01:19:50.890
production. So Lilly is building six plants here,

01:19:50.949 --> 01:19:52.909
new plants, including one of the biggest API

01:19:52.909 --> 01:19:59.130
facilities in the world. The API are the pharmaceutical

01:19:59.130 --> 01:20:01.930
ingredients that, you know, we ran out of during

01:20:01.930 --> 01:20:03.970
COVID. We need to be making them here because

01:20:03.970 --> 01:20:07.189
otherwise other countries can blackmail us. Pfizer,

01:20:07.369 --> 01:20:10.819
Merck, they're all building. Big facilities here

01:20:10.819 --> 01:20:13.399
and drug production is now going to come to the

01:20:13.399 --> 01:20:15.060
United States. We are going to be the center

01:20:15.060 --> 01:20:18.380
of the world in terms of drug production. And

01:20:18.380 --> 01:20:21.399
those negotiations were very, very tough and

01:20:21.399 --> 01:20:25.840
they were extraordinarily complex. We were you

01:20:25.840 --> 01:20:30.260
know, we have a really good suite of of talented

01:20:30.260 --> 01:20:33.619
individuals, high caliber individuals who've

01:20:33.619 --> 01:20:36.949
left billion dollar businesses. One of them is

01:20:36.949 --> 01:20:39.310
a guy called Chris Klump, who's immensely talented.

01:20:40.350 --> 01:20:44.369
He walked away from a company that does data

01:20:44.369 --> 01:20:46.590
management for 85 percent of the hospitals in

01:20:46.590 --> 01:20:48.569
this country. And, you know, he walked away from

01:20:48.569 --> 01:20:51.869
a billion dollar company, divested, lost a lot

01:20:51.869 --> 01:20:54.449
of money to come just because he wants to improve

01:20:54.449 --> 01:20:59.010
things. He ran the negotiations and the pharmaceutical

01:20:59.010 --> 01:21:00.869
companies fell in love with him because they

01:21:00.869 --> 01:21:03.699
realized they could trust him. And we worked

01:21:03.699 --> 01:21:06.159
out this extraordinary agreement where now Americans

01:21:06.159 --> 01:21:09.899
have gone from paying the most in the world for

01:21:09.899 --> 01:21:12.220
drugs to the least in the developed world for

01:21:12.220 --> 01:21:14.939
drugs. And that's going to change everybody's

01:21:14.939 --> 01:21:17.600
experience. Can I ask you how that applies? Is

01:21:17.600 --> 01:21:20.060
it the same if someone has insurance or if they

01:21:20.060 --> 01:21:23.600
don't have insurance? How does insurance bill

01:21:23.600 --> 01:21:26.140
it versus how does someone buy on their own?

01:21:29.660 --> 01:21:31.819
It's going to lower price for everybody. Anybody

01:21:31.819 --> 01:21:34.279
can go on TrumpRx, whether they have insurance

01:21:34.279 --> 01:21:36.699
or not, and they can get it there. And they would

01:21:36.699 --> 01:21:39.279
buy it themselves. Yeah. And so it would be at

01:21:39.279 --> 01:21:41.779
a substantially lower price than they would have

01:21:41.779 --> 01:21:44.039
had in the past. Exactly. They'd buy it themselves.

01:21:44.399 --> 01:21:45.979
But what if people are just getting it through

01:21:45.979 --> 01:21:50.600
insurance? Does insurance lower it as well? Yeah,

01:21:50.720 --> 01:21:55.319
the copay is lowered. Okay. And, you know, we

01:21:55.319 --> 01:21:59.539
had the first woman to buy. A drug on it, the

01:21:59.539 --> 01:22:02.159
first customer was a woman who has been trying

01:22:02.159 --> 01:22:06.899
for years to do IVF. The drug cost $4 ,000, and

01:22:06.899 --> 01:22:12.140
now I think it costs something like $600. Really?

01:22:12.659 --> 01:22:17.720
So it's going to allow women. One out of every

01:22:17.720 --> 01:22:20.140
three women in this country does not have as

01:22:20.140 --> 01:22:22.119
many children as she wants, and she can't have

01:22:22.119 --> 01:22:25.159
more. And IVF is going to be really important

01:22:25.159 --> 01:22:27.920
because our birth rate has just dropped. I mean

01:22:27.920 --> 01:22:31.239
dramatically this year. They dropped to 1 .75.

01:22:31.880 --> 01:22:34.760
Yeah, people don't understand that. We've had

01:22:34.760 --> 01:22:37.079
a few conversations on this podcast about population

01:22:37.079 --> 01:22:40.199
decline. And people just – most people are not

01:22:40.199 --> 01:22:42.460
aware of it. They just see how many people are

01:22:42.460 --> 01:22:44.479
on the highway. They think we're overcrowded.

01:22:44.619 --> 01:22:46.859
They don't understand this replacement number

01:22:46.859 --> 01:22:49.760
that we're going to need unless we want our population

01:22:49.760 --> 01:22:53.670
to climb. is in a different situation than other

01:22:53.670 --> 01:22:57.489
countries. Japan is in total crisis. China is

01:22:57.489 --> 01:23:01.550
in an existential crisis because its population

01:23:01.550 --> 01:23:05.449
is going to drop dramatically. South Korea? Yeah.

01:23:05.890 --> 01:23:09.489
But people want to immigrate here so we can make

01:23:09.489 --> 01:23:15.880
up the deficit through immigration. And we have

01:23:15.880 --> 01:23:18.279
that advantage. But, you know, it's still the

01:23:18.279 --> 01:23:26.199
birth rate has dropped. It dropped from 1 .9

01:23:26.199 --> 01:23:29.800
this year to 1 .75. And that affects Social Security.

01:23:30.020 --> 01:23:33.640
It affects, you know, it makes it so that the

01:23:33.640 --> 01:23:36.220
cliff for Social Security was pushed ahead by

01:23:36.220 --> 01:23:39.800
another year because of that drop in birth rates.

01:23:42.329 --> 01:23:44.590
It's not a good thing. And, you know, American

01:23:44.590 --> 01:23:46.810
women want to have babies and a lot of a third

01:23:46.810 --> 01:23:48.670
of them cannot have as many children as they

01:23:48.670 --> 01:23:53.949
want. What was the pushback when it came to things

01:23:53.949 --> 01:24:02.970
like removal of dyes? The removal of dyes. Again,

01:24:03.430 --> 01:24:06.050
we were, I think, because of President Trump's

01:24:06.050 --> 01:24:09.840
leadership. We were able to convene the industry

01:24:09.840 --> 01:24:13.399
and talk to them about it. And a lot of them

01:24:13.399 --> 01:24:16.460
came in and said, yeah, you know, we know we've

01:24:16.460 --> 01:24:19.039
got to change. Really? Yeah, the only one that

01:24:19.039 --> 01:24:20.579
really stood. Did you ever ask them, why didn't

01:24:20.579 --> 01:24:22.840
you do it a long time ago? Well, they didn't

01:24:22.840 --> 01:24:27.420
have options. But didn't most of them, like for

01:24:27.420 --> 01:24:30.180
cereal, for example, didn't they have to have

01:24:30.180 --> 01:24:33.699
no unnatural dyes when they sent it to Canada?

01:24:33.960 --> 01:24:37.229
Yeah, the ones in Canada. In our country, we

01:24:37.229 --> 01:24:39.970
hadn't approved a bunch of them. We only had

01:24:39.970 --> 01:24:44.850
one or two vegetable -based dyes. Marty McCary,

01:24:44.949 --> 01:24:48.909
who's done a fantastic job at FDA, has now fast

01:24:48.909 --> 01:24:53.250
-tracked it this year, seven new ones. So we're

01:24:53.250 --> 01:24:55.149
working with the industry to make sure they have

01:24:55.149 --> 01:24:56.409
the dyes, and they're supposed to get rid of

01:24:56.409 --> 01:24:59.210
all the dyes by the end of this year. And that's

01:24:59.210 --> 01:25:01.810
going to— And so instead they'll use just food

01:25:01.810 --> 01:25:05.270
-based dyes? Yeah, just vegetable and mineral

01:25:05.270 --> 01:25:09.649
-based dyes. And that's another thing that we

01:25:09.649 --> 01:25:12.710
did, again, through two things that we did through

01:25:12.710 --> 01:25:16.069
convening industry because of President Trump's

01:25:16.069 --> 01:25:19.710
convening power. We fixed the prior authorization.

01:25:19.710 --> 01:25:25.350
So one of the most frustrating things that people

01:25:25.350 --> 01:25:27.409
go through when they encounter the health care

01:25:27.409 --> 01:25:31.890
system. is that they have to wait for prior authorization

01:25:31.890 --> 01:25:35.310
from their insurance company. So you go in, your

01:25:35.310 --> 01:25:37.090
doctor tells you you need a knee replacement,

01:25:37.229 --> 01:25:43.930
and then it takes you six months for the insurance

01:25:43.930 --> 01:25:48.409
company to approve the surgery. And, you know,

01:25:48.430 --> 01:25:51.869
it was infuriating for people and really devastating

01:25:51.869 --> 01:25:56.760
and heartbreaking for a lot of them. We got the

01:25:56.760 --> 01:25:59.340
biggest insurance companies representing 80 %

01:25:59.340 --> 01:26:02.399
of the American public all voluntarily agreed

01:26:02.399 --> 01:26:05.260
to eliminate prior authorization for almost all

01:26:05.260 --> 01:26:07.479
their procedures. It's a very small number now.

01:26:07.579 --> 01:26:10.260
I think 15 % of the procedures still have it.

01:26:10.279 --> 01:26:12.699
And those are procedures we want prior authorization

01:26:12.699 --> 01:26:16.640
because there's a potential for abuse. For example,

01:26:16.640 --> 01:26:20.119
with spinal surgeries, a lot of people don't

01:26:20.119 --> 01:26:23.279
need the surgery. And Medicaid and Medicare wants

01:26:23.279 --> 01:26:25.680
to make sure that they actually need that surgery

01:26:25.680 --> 01:26:27.880
and it's beneficial to them. But for all the

01:26:27.880 --> 01:26:31.739
other ones, you will now know at point of care

01:26:31.739 --> 01:26:33.979
whether or not you're insured. So you go to your

01:26:33.979 --> 01:26:37.100
doctor. He says you need a knee surgery. Before

01:26:37.100 --> 01:26:39.060
you leave his office, you'll know whether the

01:26:39.060 --> 01:26:41.100
insurance company approves it or not. And that's

01:26:41.100 --> 01:26:43.619
going to dramatically change the medical experience.

01:26:51.939 --> 01:26:55.060
The top tech companies together, and we ended

01:26:55.060 --> 01:26:59.500
up final agreement with 405 of them who agreed

01:26:59.500 --> 01:27:03.680
to stop information blocking. So your medical

01:27:03.680 --> 01:27:08.159
records are owned by you, but you can't get access

01:27:08.159 --> 01:27:11.659
to them a lot of times. Most of the time, the

01:27:11.659 --> 01:27:17.149
data company won't give them to you. So we've

01:27:17.149 --> 01:27:19.149
got them all to agree to stop doing that. So

01:27:19.149 --> 01:27:21.489
by the end of this year, every American will

01:27:21.489 --> 01:27:23.130
be able to get their medical records on their

01:27:23.130 --> 01:27:25.489
cell phone. And that's going to dramatically

01:27:25.489 --> 01:27:27.670
change the medical experience. It's going to

01:27:27.670 --> 01:27:30.170
save lives because if you get hit – you live

01:27:30.170 --> 01:27:32.449
in New Jersey. You get hit by a car in Portland,

01:27:32.569 --> 01:27:35.449
Oregon. You go to the hospital and you spend

01:27:35.449 --> 01:27:37.550
the first two hours while you're bleeding out,

01:27:37.649 --> 01:27:41.670
making out clipboards. Now – or you come in unconscious

01:27:41.670 --> 01:27:43.550
and they don't know what to do with you. They

01:27:43.550 --> 01:27:45.779
don't know anything about you. Now your medical

01:27:45.779 --> 01:27:48.439
records are on your cell phone. They can see

01:27:48.439 --> 01:27:49.979
if you have allergies. They can see what your

01:27:49.979 --> 01:27:53.359
blood type is. They can look at all of your previous

01:27:53.359 --> 01:27:57.899
medical records and make good decisions about

01:27:57.899 --> 01:28:02.619
how to treat you. And also, you're going to be

01:28:02.619 --> 01:28:10.600
able to sync that with food purchases apps. You'll

01:28:10.600 --> 01:28:14.199
be able to go into a grocery store, and the app

01:28:14.199 --> 01:28:17.960
will tell you, this one is bad for you. This

01:28:17.960 --> 01:28:22.619
choice is bad for you, and I'll offer you a better

01:28:22.619 --> 01:28:24.479
choice, et cetera. And there's an app like that,

01:28:24.539 --> 01:28:26.479
Yucca, now. But there's a lot of them coming

01:28:26.479 --> 01:28:29.239
online now. What is it called? Yucca is the one.

01:28:29.340 --> 01:28:32.260
I think 50 % of the people in France use Yucca.

01:28:32.340 --> 01:28:35.399
Do you spell it? I think it's Y -U -C -C -A.

01:28:36.210 --> 01:28:39.590
Y -U -K -A. I don't know. You can look it up.

01:28:41.750 --> 01:28:45.270
We use it. My wife used it. You go into the grocery

01:28:45.270 --> 01:28:49.970
store. You go into the grocery store and you

01:28:49.970 --> 01:28:55.050
put it on the barcode and it rates each of the

01:28:55.050 --> 01:28:57.289
products about whether or not they're, you know,

01:28:57.329 --> 01:28:59.090
whether it's good or a healthy one. And then

01:28:59.090 --> 01:29:00.930
it makes you a recommendation for a healthier

01:29:00.930 --> 01:29:04.779
one if it's bad for you. And that is going to

01:29:04.779 --> 01:29:07.760
change the food culture in our country because

01:29:07.760 --> 01:29:11.340
the company is already changing their ingredients

01:29:11.340 --> 01:29:14.000
so that they can get better scores from the Yuck

01:29:14.000 --> 01:29:16.399
app and from other apps that are like it. It's

01:29:16.399 --> 01:29:19.439
not the only one out there. But what about preservatives

01:29:19.439 --> 01:29:22.479
in processed foods? They're always going to exist,

01:29:22.680 --> 01:29:23.800
right? You're always going to have a certain

01:29:23.800 --> 01:29:27.619
amount of preservatives in processed foods. Well,

01:29:27.699 --> 01:29:31.010
I mean … First of all, we're not going to take

01:29:31.010 --> 01:29:34.710
processed foods away from people. We're going

01:29:34.710 --> 01:29:37.130
to I think we're going to change the amount of

01:29:37.130 --> 01:29:42.149
processed foods. One is by April, we will have

01:29:42.149 --> 01:29:45.670
a federal definition of ultra processed foods.

01:29:46.350 --> 01:29:49.170
First time in history. And as soon as we do that.

01:29:50.090 --> 01:29:52.050
We're going to do front of package food labeling.

01:29:52.130 --> 01:29:55.409
So every food in your grocery store will have

01:29:55.409 --> 01:29:57.550
a label on it. It'll have maybe a green light

01:29:57.550 --> 01:30:00.930
or red light or yellow light telling you whether

01:30:00.930 --> 01:30:03.850
or not it's going to be good for you. Oh, wow.

01:30:04.010 --> 01:30:06.210
And that, you know, and it's going to evaluate

01:30:06.210 --> 01:30:10.890
all of the ingredients, et cetera. So, you know,

01:30:10.890 --> 01:30:13.289
I think we're not going to change this overnight,

01:30:13.430 --> 01:30:15.270
but we're going to change it pretty quickly.

01:30:15.409 --> 01:30:19.149
And if you want to be healthy. We're going to

01:30:19.149 --> 01:30:21.130
give you the information to take control of your

01:30:21.130 --> 01:30:23.350
own health. People just don't want to be healthy

01:30:23.350 --> 01:30:26.270
and don't care. There's not much you can do about

01:30:26.270 --> 01:30:30.329
it. Most Americans want to be healthy. We've

01:30:30.329 --> 01:30:32.069
seen that when they're allowed to make a healthy

01:30:32.069 --> 01:30:34.569
choice, they do not want to be eating this poison.

01:30:34.850 --> 01:30:36.390
Yeah, and ironically, the people that don't want

01:30:36.390 --> 01:30:37.930
to be healthy, they feel that way because they're

01:30:37.930 --> 01:30:41.960
not healthy. If they were healthy, they would

01:30:41.960 --> 01:30:44.279
want to stay healthy. They're just part of the

01:30:44.279 --> 01:30:47.039
reason why they're feeling this way is because

01:30:47.039 --> 01:30:48.760
they're unhealthy. That's why they don't care.

01:30:48.979 --> 01:30:52.180
Well, it's also like the mountain is so big.

01:30:52.420 --> 01:30:54.739
If you're 300 pounds, you're like, oh, my God,

01:30:54.779 --> 01:30:57.699
it's so much work to do something about this

01:30:57.699 --> 01:31:00.739
and not fall back on the old behaviors. And I

01:31:00.739 --> 01:31:03.800
don't know, other than by example, how you can

01:31:03.800 --> 01:31:06.479
get a large group of people to go along with

01:31:06.479 --> 01:31:10.159
that. When someone like Jelly Roll loses, I think

01:31:10.159 --> 01:31:12.079
it's close to 300 pounds. When someone like that

01:31:12.079 --> 01:31:14.100
does that, that's going to help a lot of people.

01:31:14.239 --> 01:31:16.439
So that's kind of an example of a guy who just

01:31:16.439 --> 01:31:18.479
completely changed his lifestyle around, changed

01:31:18.479 --> 01:31:22.359
what he eats. And he did it without GLPs. Yes,

01:31:22.439 --> 01:31:25.260
he did. That's pretty amazing. Which brings me

01:31:25.260 --> 01:31:28.859
to peptides. Where are we at right now on peptides

01:31:28.859 --> 01:31:31.380
and getting them regulated and making sure it's

01:31:31.380 --> 01:31:33.960
not this weird gray area? Because we know they're

01:31:33.960 --> 01:31:36.890
effective. But we also know that there's a lot

01:31:36.890 --> 01:31:39.409
of pushback on peptides. Yeah. I mean I'm a big

01:31:39.409 --> 01:31:42.930
fan of peptides. I've used them myself and used

01:31:42.930 --> 01:31:47.210
them with really good effect on a couple of injuries.

01:31:49.489 --> 01:31:54.789
What happened was there were 19 peptides that

01:31:54.789 --> 01:31:59.869
you can – just so people understand, there's

01:31:59.869 --> 01:32:05.930
a – there was a law written that to – allow compounding

01:32:05.930 --> 01:32:11.090
pharmacies to make compounds that were part of

01:32:11.090 --> 01:32:13.869
approved drugs. So, you know, part of approved

01:32:13.869 --> 01:32:18.109
ingredients of approved drugs to make them individually

01:32:18.109 --> 01:32:23.409
for patients who did not have access to the particular

01:32:23.409 --> 01:32:30.529
formulation that they needed to fit them. Maybe

01:32:30.529 --> 01:32:32.630
they had an allergy to the commercial brand or

01:32:32.630 --> 01:32:36.090
whatever. And the compounding pharmacies and

01:32:36.090 --> 01:32:38.109
peptides was part of that group. There were 19

01:32:38.109 --> 01:32:42.569
peptides that were widely formulated by compounding

01:32:42.569 --> 01:32:45.689
pharmacies during the Biden administration. They

01:32:45.689 --> 01:32:50.189
illegally move those to category two, which says

01:32:50.189 --> 01:32:54.069
do not formulate. It was illegal because they're

01:32:54.069 --> 01:32:56.789
not supposed to do that unless there's a safety

01:32:56.789 --> 01:32:59.529
signal. And they didn't have a safety signal.

01:32:59.609 --> 01:33:01.710
They're not allowed to look at efficacy. They're

01:33:01.710 --> 01:33:04.760
not allowed to say, well, We don't believe these

01:33:04.760 --> 01:33:07.539
are efficacious or whatever. They can only look

01:33:07.539 --> 01:33:11.039
at safety. They move those to category two, which

01:33:11.039 --> 01:33:14.659
means not formulate. What happened? There was

01:33:14.659 --> 01:33:18.300
huge demand for peptides. And so a black market

01:33:18.300 --> 01:33:23.779
came out. And the black market is run by companies

01:33:23.779 --> 01:33:26.520
that say that they're making the peptides for

01:33:26.520 --> 01:33:33.189
animal use or for research purposes. Peptide

01:33:33.189 --> 01:33:36.430
now basically completely replaced the legal market.

01:33:36.930 --> 01:33:44.350
The legal market for peptides, the pharmacies,

01:33:44.430 --> 01:33:48.010
the compounding pharmacies are getting those

01:33:48.010 --> 01:33:52.390
peptides from FDA -inspected facilities and some

01:33:52.390 --> 01:33:54.130
of them in India and China. But they were the

01:33:54.130 --> 01:33:56.149
same one that the pharmaceutical industries are

01:33:56.149 --> 01:33:59.300
buying them and we inspect those. You know you're

01:33:59.300 --> 01:34:02.359
getting a good product. You know you're getting

01:34:02.359 --> 01:34:07.920
what you bought, what was advertised. With the

01:34:07.920 --> 01:34:10.020
gray market, you have no idea. And a lot of this

01:34:10.020 --> 01:34:12.039
stuff that we've looked at is just, you know,

01:34:12.100 --> 01:34:16.760
is very, very substandard. Oh, I'm very anxious

01:34:16.760 --> 01:34:19.760
to move. Probably not all of those peptides.

01:34:19.859 --> 01:34:23.659
Some of them are in litigation. But about 14

01:34:23.659 --> 01:34:27.840
of them back to. making them more accessible.

01:34:28.140 --> 01:34:34.779
And FDA is in the middle of, I think, within

01:34:34.779 --> 01:34:38.420
a couple of weeks, we will have announced some

01:34:38.420 --> 01:34:42.319
kind of new action. And my hope is that they're

01:34:42.319 --> 01:34:44.840
going to end up with, they're still looking at

01:34:44.840 --> 01:34:47.760
the science. My hope is that they're going to

01:34:47.760 --> 01:34:49.739
get moved to a place where people have access

01:34:49.739 --> 01:34:54.369
from ethical suppliers. That's ultimately the

01:34:54.369 --> 01:34:56.470
problem with all this black market stuff, right?

01:34:56.529 --> 01:34:59.369
A lot of people are getting bogus peptides and

01:34:59.369 --> 01:35:02.430
they don't have any idea how they – if they work,

01:35:02.609 --> 01:35:04.529
whether to test them. They just take a chance.

01:35:04.609 --> 01:35:06.710
They take a risk. They get a little flyer in

01:35:06.710 --> 01:35:09.689
their email or something and they hear from somebody

01:35:09.689 --> 01:35:11.270
else. I got it from this place. They don't even

01:35:11.270 --> 01:35:13.869
know and they try it and you're getting nonsense

01:35:13.869 --> 01:35:17.270
bogus peptides. I mean we created the black market.

01:35:17.470 --> 01:35:19.340
Yeah. Which we do with everything. And it's a

01:35:19.340 --> 01:35:20.819
very dangerous black market. Which they've done

01:35:20.819 --> 01:35:22.939
during Prohibition. They're doing it right now

01:35:22.939 --> 01:35:27.560
with everything else. It's unfortunate. I know

01:35:27.560 --> 01:35:32.680
there's been some talk about psychedelics. And

01:35:32.680 --> 01:35:35.720
I know that in particular Ibogaine, what's going

01:35:35.720 --> 01:35:39.060
on in Texas with the Ibogaine Initiative where

01:35:39.060 --> 01:35:42.420
former Governor Rick Perry and Brian Hubbard

01:35:42.420 --> 01:35:45.210
have been … Helping a lot of veterans, a lot

01:35:45.210 --> 01:35:47.489
of people with like serious opioid addictions.

01:35:47.489 --> 01:35:52.250
And this is the plan to have this and run some

01:35:52.250 --> 01:35:54.989
programs where you have this very effective way

01:35:54.989 --> 01:35:57.909
of getting people off addictions that we have

01:35:57.909 --> 01:36:01.630
for some reason banned in America up until these

01:36:01.630 --> 01:36:05.579
initiatives. I think. There's some stuff that

01:36:05.579 --> 01:36:07.680
can help a lot of people. I mean, how many people

01:36:07.680 --> 01:36:10.119
are addicted to opioids in this country? It's

01:36:10.119 --> 01:36:11.439
pretty high. How many people are alcoholics?

01:36:11.520 --> 01:36:14.500
48 ,000. 48 million. Have you looked into the

01:36:14.500 --> 01:36:17.039
Ibogaine stuff? Yeah. What's your thoughts on

01:36:17.039 --> 01:36:20.800
it? I don't know enough, and I don't think it's

01:36:20.800 --> 01:36:23.859
well -documented enough about whether it's a

01:36:23.859 --> 01:36:29.000
long -term impact on addiction. But in terms

01:36:29.000 --> 01:36:32.619
of just sort of the field of psilocybin and MDMA,

01:36:34.270 --> 01:36:38.210
There are lots and lots of good studies now that

01:36:38.210 --> 01:36:44.310
clearly demonstrate that or strongly suggest

01:36:44.310 --> 01:36:52.729
that it is effective against PTSD. PTSD. Yeah,

01:36:52.770 --> 01:36:58.789
PTSD, sorry. And, you know, also some forms of

01:36:58.789 --> 01:37:07.050
depression, et cetera. In my agency and over

01:37:07.050 --> 01:37:12.630
at VA, Doug Collins' agency is very anxious to

01:37:12.630 --> 01:37:15.630
get a rule out there that will allow these kind

01:37:15.630 --> 01:37:18.930
of studies, will allow access under therapeutic

01:37:18.930 --> 01:37:24.750
settings, particularly to the military soldiers

01:37:24.750 --> 01:37:27.170
who have suffered these injuries to get access

01:37:27.170 --> 01:37:30.109
to these products. We're working through that

01:37:30.109 --> 01:37:36.010
process now. From Marty McCary. I mean we're

01:37:36.010 --> 01:37:39.729
all working on it and trying to make it happen.

01:37:40.029 --> 01:37:41.970
It would be great to extend that to police officers

01:37:41.970 --> 01:37:45.670
too probably. Yeah. I mean a lot of the same

01:37:45.670 --> 01:37:48.590
type of PTSD they experience. It just doesn't

01:37:48.590 --> 01:37:53.789
get brought up as much. And if you can treat

01:37:53.789 --> 01:37:59.470
depression without using SSRIs, putting somebody

01:37:59.470 --> 01:38:03.460
on lifetime sentence to SSRIs. You can treat

01:38:03.460 --> 01:38:05.899
them. There's a number of things, not just psychedelics,

01:38:05.899 --> 01:38:07.800
but a number of interventions that we're looking

01:38:07.800 --> 01:38:11.619
at that are rapid interventions are more transformative

01:38:11.619 --> 01:38:13.779
than the way that psychedelics seem to rewire

01:38:13.779 --> 01:38:17.800
your brain. And so we're looking at that as an

01:38:17.800 --> 01:38:21.359
entire category of interventions that people

01:38:21.359 --> 01:38:25.199
ought to be able to study, ought to have good

01:38:25.199 --> 01:38:28.039
access to, and we should get it out to the public

01:38:28.039 --> 01:38:30.680
as quickly as possible. What would be the hurdles

01:38:30.680 --> 01:38:36.819
to something like that? I think that we're going

01:38:36.819 --> 01:38:39.920
to get it done. So how would that be implemented?

01:38:40.100 --> 01:38:42.279
Would it be implemented in a clinical setting?

01:38:42.500 --> 01:38:44.939
Would it be somewhere that— Well, for some of

01:38:44.939 --> 01:38:48.319
them, you know, for some of them, it would be

01:38:48.319 --> 01:38:51.460
that you can do, you know, to encourage more

01:38:51.460 --> 01:38:54.739
clinical trials. In other words, it would be

01:38:54.739 --> 01:38:59.460
very strong guidelines. I mean, this is what

01:38:59.460 --> 01:39:01.420
we're envisioning, so I can't tell you exactly

01:39:01.420 --> 01:39:04.489
what we're going to do. But very, very strong

01:39:04.489 --> 01:39:08.550
guidelines, therapeutic guidelines. So how they're

01:39:08.550 --> 01:39:10.409
applied, what kind of follow up, because a lot

01:39:10.409 --> 01:39:13.729
of these things rewire your brain. If you don't

01:39:13.729 --> 01:39:17.710
do follow up, it doesn't work or you have a failure

01:39:17.710 --> 01:39:21.670
rate. So, you know, those kind of protocols are

01:39:21.670 --> 01:39:24.130
all stuff that we've been developing and studying.

01:39:24.310 --> 01:39:26.949
And, you know, I think most of the people in

01:39:26.949 --> 01:39:29.170
the administration are anxious to make this happen

01:39:29.170 --> 01:39:32.569
as quickly as possible. And I know. Doug Collins

01:39:32.569 --> 01:39:35.229
over at the VA already has, I think, 21 studies

01:39:35.229 --> 01:39:38.750
going over there, and they're very, very promising.

01:39:39.170 --> 01:39:42.250
And what are they using at the VA? I think they're

01:39:42.250 --> 01:39:46.670
using combinations of MDMA and psilocybin, maybe

01:39:46.670 --> 01:39:51.539
using Ibogaine. And, you know, I think they're

01:39:51.539 --> 01:39:53.380
looking at a number of things, including Iowa.

01:39:53.539 --> 01:39:58.060
They shot down something fairly recently in California

01:39:58.060 --> 01:40:00.800
where they were going to decriminalize. Were

01:40:00.800 --> 01:40:02.819
they going to decriminalize psilocybin or they

01:40:02.819 --> 01:40:08.869
were going to allow it for clinical use? But

01:40:08.869 --> 01:40:11.609
I think the problem that they had was they didn't

01:40:11.609 --> 01:40:14.090
say we're completely opposed to it. They said

01:40:14.090 --> 01:40:16.189
there's no guidelines in terms of like how is

01:40:16.189 --> 01:40:18.130
it going to be clinically applied, who are going

01:40:18.130 --> 01:40:21.430
to be the people, what's the dosage. Yeah. You

01:40:21.430 --> 01:40:22.909
need those guidelines because you don't want

01:40:22.909 --> 01:40:25.050
to make the wild west. Exactly. You're going

01:40:25.050 --> 01:40:27.329
to have horror stories overnight because people,

01:40:27.409 --> 01:40:31.609
as you know. You know, some people can have very,

01:40:31.710 --> 01:40:34.289
very bad experiences on that. Also, some people

01:40:34.289 --> 01:40:36.489
are on medications and they should be very aware

01:40:36.489 --> 01:40:39.670
that this medication would go really badly with

01:40:39.670 --> 01:40:43.680
X amount of whatever. Right. So, I mean, you

01:40:43.680 --> 01:40:46.359
know, we're looking at ways to get it done so

01:40:46.359 --> 01:40:49.239
that it's in a very controlled setting. And so

01:40:49.239 --> 01:40:52.199
would you envision a place like that, like once

01:40:52.199 --> 01:40:55.039
it's implemented, where someone who's suffering

01:40:55.039 --> 01:40:58.300
from depression or PTSD, regardless of whether

01:40:58.300 --> 01:41:01.039
they're a soldier or cop or just a regular person,

01:41:01.159 --> 01:41:03.260
could be able to go to a place like that and

01:41:03.260 --> 01:41:06.079
get treatment? For me, you know, personally,

01:41:06.359 --> 01:41:12.930
I would like to see that. We need to move in

01:41:12.930 --> 01:41:15.470
baby steps with this because you don't want to

01:41:15.470 --> 01:41:18.890
create a situation where people are getting hurt.

01:41:19.050 --> 01:41:21.569
And you don't want to create a situation where

01:41:21.569 --> 01:41:25.390
mentally unstable people snap, which can happen.

01:41:25.510 --> 01:41:28.770
Which can happen. Yeah. These are very powerful

01:41:28.770 --> 01:41:31.310
tools you're working with. It's like everything

01:41:31.310 --> 01:41:36.520
else. You can do it wrong. It just makes sense

01:41:36.520 --> 01:41:38.659
that if you had less depressed people, more happy

01:41:38.659 --> 01:41:40.920
people, more people connected, more people that

01:41:40.920 --> 01:41:43.439
can kind of let go of whatever traumatic experience

01:41:43.439 --> 01:41:47.020
they went through and just live a more joyful,

01:41:47.239 --> 01:41:49.680
productive life, which many people that have

01:41:49.680 --> 01:41:52.539
taken these substances have experienced. Like

01:41:52.539 --> 01:41:55.119
it's not a cure -all for everything. It's not

01:41:55.119 --> 01:41:57.140
going to fix everybody. It's not even for everybody.

01:41:57.260 --> 01:42:00.479
But you should deny people access. You shouldn't

01:42:00.479 --> 01:42:04.630
have a soldier. who has given everything for

01:42:04.630 --> 01:42:07.430
the country, who has suffered terribly, who has

01:42:07.430 --> 01:42:09.449
to go to Tijuana to get these treatments, who

01:42:09.449 --> 01:42:11.789
has to leave our country in order to get the

01:42:11.789 --> 01:42:14.470
treatments. It doesn't make any sense. No, it

01:42:14.470 --> 01:42:16.329
doesn't, especially when so many of them have

01:42:16.329 --> 01:42:19.510
come back with these stories. Guys, Sean Ryan,

01:42:19.750 --> 01:42:22.750
a bunch of my friends have done it. And I had

01:42:22.750 --> 01:42:26.289
a good friend who – my friend Ed Clay who runs

01:42:26.289 --> 01:42:29.470
the CPI down in Tijuana, the Cellular Performance

01:42:29.470 --> 01:42:31.710
Institute, which is an amazing stem cell clinic

01:42:31.710 --> 01:42:34.329
down there. He went down there because he hurt

01:42:34.329 --> 01:42:36.310
his back and he got on pills and he couldn't

01:42:36.310 --> 01:42:38.109
get off them. Did Ibogaine got off them? He's

01:42:38.109 --> 01:42:39.670
like, oh, my God. Like more people have to be

01:42:39.670 --> 01:42:42.970
aware of this. This really works. This is a thing

01:42:42.970 --> 01:42:45.329
that has been shown. I think it's in the 80 percent.

01:42:46.080 --> 01:42:49.939
when you do one treatment where people don't

01:42:49.939 --> 01:42:53.020
relapse, and it's in a 90 % range with two treatments.

01:42:53.279 --> 01:42:55.020
I mean, it's incredibly effective. There's nothing

01:42:55.020 --> 01:42:58.220
like it. And yet we've been denied it. It also

01:42:58.220 --> 01:43:00.579
has, like, no chance of you being addicted to

01:43:00.579 --> 01:43:02.460
it. It's a terrifying experience, apparently,

01:43:02.640 --> 01:43:05.699
or at least very uncomfortable. It takes 24 hours.

01:43:05.859 --> 01:43:08.079
Nobody wants to hop in and do it again. It's

01:43:08.079 --> 01:43:10.800
not like, hey, let's party and take Ibogaine.

01:43:11.649 --> 01:43:15.069
It's an ordeal. It's an ordeal. Exactly. And

01:43:15.069 --> 01:43:17.329
that ordeal is extremely beneficial to people,

01:43:17.409 --> 01:43:21.250
but also like severs the impulse of addiction

01:43:21.250 --> 01:43:25.270
in a lot of people. It's very successful at it.

01:43:25.369 --> 01:43:30.430
Yeah. I mean, I had a family member whose life

01:43:30.430 --> 01:43:34.689
was transformed by it. And, you know, I've been

01:43:34.689 --> 01:43:38.590
in recovery for 43 years. So and I go to a meeting

01:43:38.590 --> 01:43:41.670
every day. Oh, it's pretty hard to convince me

01:43:41.670 --> 01:43:44.909
that you can fix what's wrong with you by taking

01:43:44.909 --> 01:43:48.970
something outside of you. But I have seen so

01:43:48.970 --> 01:43:54.189
much overwhelming anecdotal evidence but also

01:43:54.189 --> 01:43:59.569
clinical studies that attest to the effectiveness

01:43:59.569 --> 01:44:03.789
under some circumstances with some people or

01:44:03.789 --> 01:44:08.189
these. These medicines, you know, and I think

01:44:08.189 --> 01:44:12.189
you've got Jay Bhattacharya at NIH and Marty

01:44:12.189 --> 01:44:18.909
McCary at FDA who are all, you know, doing whatever

01:44:18.909 --> 01:44:23.109
they can to make this happen. Yeah. Well, I sincerely

01:44:23.109 --> 01:44:25.510
hope that more people consider it. And I think

01:44:25.510 --> 01:44:27.289
one of the big hopes that we have is when you

01:44:27.289 --> 01:44:29.670
have someone like former Texas Governor Rick

01:44:29.670 --> 01:44:32.109
Perry, who's a Republican, looking at this instead

01:44:32.109 --> 01:44:35.590
of from like. For the longest time, that was

01:44:35.590 --> 01:44:38.289
a left -wing perspective, right? Legalized marijuana,

01:44:38.750 --> 01:44:41.810
legalized psychedelics. You didn't hear about

01:44:41.810 --> 01:44:44.090
it from former Republican governors like Rick

01:44:44.090 --> 01:44:47.149
Perry. But when he sees the benefit that it has

01:44:47.149 --> 01:44:49.750
with veterans, which he cares very deeply about

01:44:49.750 --> 01:44:51.850
the veteran community, he's like, no, this is

01:44:51.850 --> 01:44:54.350
not something to ignore just because it's connected

01:44:54.350 --> 01:44:57.310
to hippies. I don't know if you remember this,

01:44:57.409 --> 01:45:01.289
but Hunter Thompson, during whatever election

01:45:01.289 --> 01:45:03.289
he covered in Fear and Loathing on the campaign

01:45:03.289 --> 01:45:08.069
trail. 1973. When he put out that rumor that

01:45:08.069 --> 01:45:11.609
Ed Muskie was addicted to Ibogaine. Brazilian

01:45:11.609 --> 01:45:14.850
witch doctors were coming and giving him Ibogaine.

01:45:15.109 --> 01:45:20.449
It ruined that guy's career. But it's so funny

01:45:20.449 --> 01:45:23.409
that he chose that drug because it's like no

01:45:23.409 --> 01:45:26.560
one's addicted to that. That's not the risk.

01:45:26.659 --> 01:45:29.180
The risk is heart attacks. The risk is you have

01:45:29.180 --> 01:45:30.619
to have your heart monitored while you're doing

01:45:30.619 --> 01:45:33.340
it. It's very stressful for a lot of people.

01:45:33.420 --> 01:45:36.939
But on a clinical setting, it's shown to be incredibly

01:45:36.939 --> 01:45:38.840
effective, and I don't think we should ignore

01:45:38.840 --> 01:45:41.380
these things. I think it's foolish, and I think

01:45:41.380 --> 01:45:44.960
that is one that seems to have a bipartisan agreement

01:45:44.960 --> 01:45:47.439
on because a lot of people on the left have always

01:45:47.439 --> 01:45:49.720
been in favor of some kind of psychedelic therapy.

01:45:50.189 --> 01:45:52.689
just based on experiences they've had that were

01:45:52.689 --> 01:45:56.470
positive. But seeing it from the right is very

01:45:56.470 --> 01:45:59.409
encouraging because I think it's something for

01:45:59.409 --> 01:46:01.470
human beings. It's not for everybody, but it's

01:46:01.470 --> 01:46:05.270
a tool that I have seen benefit many, many people,

01:46:05.329 --> 01:46:08.510
and we should use every tool that could help

01:46:08.510 --> 01:46:11.670
us be healthier and happier, period. That shouldn't

01:46:11.670 --> 01:46:13.729
be a right or a left issue. That's just silly.

01:46:14.350 --> 01:46:19.369
It's just dumb. Agreed. Yeah. I mean, it's shocking

01:46:19.369 --> 01:46:23.250
that that is an unusual perspective. But I think

01:46:23.250 --> 01:46:25.810
we've been propagandized for so long, particularly

01:46:25.810 --> 01:46:30.800
on certain things like just the blanket. term

01:46:30.800 --> 01:46:34.600
of drugs, that all of them fall into this category

01:46:34.600 --> 01:46:37.760
of you trying to escape reality. And this one

01:46:37.760 --> 01:46:40.560
is literally the opposite. It's like you confronting

01:46:40.560 --> 01:46:44.140
reality and finding out why the pathways to certain

01:46:44.140 --> 01:46:46.819
destructive behaviors were set in your life and

01:46:46.819 --> 01:46:50.300
how to correct it. I think that'd be great for

01:46:50.300 --> 01:46:56.180
everybody. I agree. Yeah. You've got, you're

01:46:56.180 --> 01:47:00.189
already a year in here plus, and you know, Is

01:47:00.189 --> 01:47:03.189
it going as fast as you'd hoped like some of

01:47:03.189 --> 01:47:07.890
these reforms? Is there – what are the main frustrations

01:47:07.890 --> 01:47:10.109
that you have to deal with? I mean I didn't know

01:47:10.109 --> 01:47:14.390
what to expect and I didn't know when I came

01:47:14.390 --> 01:47:17.510
in. I didn't know the president that well. But

01:47:17.510 --> 01:47:24.489
from the beginning, he was empowering me and

01:47:24.489 --> 01:47:27.270
I never made an agreement with him about anything.

01:47:28.560 --> 01:47:30.640
And the first time he asked me whether I wanted

01:47:30.640 --> 01:47:32.979
to be HHS secretary, I said, I don't think so.

01:47:33.680 --> 01:47:37.060
I wanted to be maybe a health czar in the White

01:47:37.060 --> 01:47:40.300
House. And then I thought about it for a while

01:47:40.300 --> 01:47:42.779
and thought, no, I really won't be effective

01:47:42.779 --> 01:47:47.060
unless I'm in this agency and can actually, you

01:47:47.060 --> 01:47:51.020
know, get into the weeds. And it has 82 ,000

01:47:51.020 --> 01:47:55.680
employees. the biggest budget in government,

01:47:55.840 --> 01:47:58.140
and that would actually give me the power to

01:47:58.140 --> 01:48:02.399
change the system. And so then I went back to

01:48:02.399 --> 01:48:04.819
him and I said, you know, I want HHS. And he

01:48:04.819 --> 01:48:07.859
said, fine. And then he allowed me to appoint

01:48:07.859 --> 01:48:12.420
all of my sub agency heads, which no president

01:48:12.420 --> 01:48:15.020
has ever done with an HHS secretary in history.

01:48:15.119 --> 01:48:18.239
He allowed me to appoint Marty McCary, choose

01:48:18.239 --> 01:48:23.810
Marty McCary. FDA, Jay Bhattacharya, Dr. Oz and

01:48:23.810 --> 01:48:29.409
CMS and everybody else below them. So nobody's

01:48:29.409 --> 01:48:31.369
ever been able to do that. And then he, you know,

01:48:31.390 --> 01:48:33.930
he gave me a very prominent job on the transition

01:48:33.930 --> 01:48:38.210
committee to set this all in motion. And then

01:48:38.210 --> 01:48:41.550
once I got in, he supported me on everything.

01:48:41.810 --> 01:48:45.470
And that, I think, was allowed me to do things

01:48:45.470 --> 01:48:50.720
more during. I think. I mean, I don't want to

01:48:50.720 --> 01:48:54.359
say sound like, you know, vain or something,

01:48:54.439 --> 01:48:57.979
but because of the great team that we have and

01:48:57.979 --> 01:48:59.539
because of the support of the president, we've

01:48:59.539 --> 01:49:02.439
been able to accomplish more in one year than

01:49:02.439 --> 01:49:06.140
I think any other HHS secretary has done in history

01:49:06.140 --> 01:49:09.819
in four years. Oh, I'm pleased with what we've

01:49:09.819 --> 01:49:14.159
done. But there's still I mean, it's the it's

01:49:14.159 --> 01:49:17.970
20 percent of our economy. And so it's a huge

01:49:17.970 --> 01:49:21.229
agency, and there's, you know, it's in everything,

01:49:21.390 --> 01:49:23.430
and there's a lot to do. But I think we're moving

01:49:23.430 --> 01:49:29.689
really fast. So better than you'd hoped? I would

01:49:29.689 --> 01:49:33.409
say, yeah, if you put this on the table and said

01:49:33.409 --> 01:49:35.909
you could have this, you know, the first day

01:49:35.909 --> 01:49:37.770
I got into office, I would snatch it off and

01:49:37.770 --> 01:49:40.810
say I'll take it. But, I mean, I could only imagine

01:49:40.810 --> 01:49:42.770
staring at that mountain when you're at the foot

01:49:42.770 --> 01:49:44.649
of it and realizing what a climb this is going

01:49:44.649 --> 01:49:48.760
to be. But that's not how I approach it. I just

01:49:48.760 --> 01:49:51.560
did it one thing at a time. And there's something

01:49:51.560 --> 01:49:57.260
to fix every single day. And I have the smartest

01:49:57.260 --> 01:50:00.340
people in the country working with me. And, you

01:50:00.340 --> 01:50:03.720
know, we meet every day, me and Oz and Jay and

01:50:03.720 --> 01:50:11.479
Chris Klump and Marty. We have a meeting every

01:50:11.479 --> 01:50:14.829
morning and we. talk about what we're doing and

01:50:14.829 --> 01:50:17.609
about where we need to help each other and you

01:50:17.609 --> 01:50:21.750
know it's a really uh it's a very very congenial

01:50:21.750 --> 01:50:24.149
team we all feel like family with each other

01:50:24.149 --> 01:50:27.130
and we vacation together and you know it's uh

01:50:27.130 --> 01:50:32.329
i think because of that in in former times the

01:50:32.329 --> 01:50:35.210
hhs secretary has always been at odds with his

01:50:35.210 --> 01:50:41.670
departments and you know under biden and uh Even

01:50:41.670 --> 01:50:43.949
under the previous Trump administration. Why

01:50:43.949 --> 01:50:48.449
do you think that was? Because I think part of

01:50:48.449 --> 01:50:50.609
it is personalities. They're all kind of, you

01:50:50.609 --> 01:50:53.069
know, alpha people. They have different ideas.

01:50:54.029 --> 01:51:00.710
And then they, I don't know. I mean, we, I think

01:51:00.710 --> 01:51:05.189
a lot of that is just personality and struggling

01:51:05.189 --> 01:51:12.479
for. for power and influence and all of that

01:51:12.479 --> 01:51:14.159
kind of stuff. You know, you want to run your

01:51:14.159 --> 01:51:18.399
own agency and you don't want interference. And

01:51:18.399 --> 01:51:22.199
we've been able to do it in ways that are very,

01:51:22.340 --> 01:51:26.539
very collegial. I wanted to ask you about pesticides.

01:51:27.020 --> 01:51:30.300
So what was the recent ruling on glyphosate?

01:51:30.819 --> 01:51:33.880
I was on an EO, which is an executive order,

01:51:33.979 --> 01:51:40.239
from the president saying that We're going to

01:51:40.239 --> 01:51:44.819
make the ingredients for glyphosate in this country

01:51:44.819 --> 01:51:49.779
and for elemental phosphorus. And, you know,

01:51:49.859 --> 01:51:52.819
I've—listen, I've spent 40 years fighting pesticides.

01:51:53.300 --> 01:51:57.159
It was—I was part of the trial team on the Monsanto

01:51:57.159 --> 01:51:59.640
case, which was the team that, you know, we won

01:51:59.640 --> 01:52:03.359
three cases in a row and then got an $11 billion.

01:52:05.260 --> 01:52:08.960
settlement with Monsanto, which is now Bayer.

01:52:08.960 --> 01:52:12.960
By the end of our trial, Bayer owned Monsanto.

01:52:13.199 --> 01:52:15.300
But, you know, pesticides are poison. They're

01:52:15.300 --> 01:52:18.779
designed to kill all life. It's not a good thing

01:52:18.779 --> 01:52:23.859
to have in your food. So it's not something that

01:52:23.859 --> 01:52:27.039
I was particularly happy with, let me put it

01:52:27.039 --> 01:52:31.020
that way mildly. But I also understand the president's

01:52:31.020 --> 01:52:32.880
point of view. The president didn't create this

01:52:32.880 --> 01:52:36.250
system. He's dealing with a problem that was

01:52:36.250 --> 01:52:41.970
created long before over the past 60 years when,

01:52:42.010 --> 01:52:45.949
you know, through federal policies and subsidies

01:52:45.949 --> 01:52:49.350
and the management of farming in this country,

01:52:49.390 --> 01:52:52.350
the agricultural management, we have addicted

01:52:52.350 --> 01:52:55.810
our farmers to these pesticides and particularly

01:52:55.810 --> 01:52:59.930
glyphosate. Glyphosate is the foundational pesticide

01:52:59.930 --> 01:53:05.859
of our food production system. 97 % of corn in

01:53:05.859 --> 01:53:07.960
this country is produced with glyphosate and

01:53:07.960 --> 01:53:12.699
can't be produced without it. 98 % of, you know,

01:53:12.720 --> 01:53:15.699
you could do it. You could change it. There's

01:53:15.699 --> 01:53:19.039
organic corn producers in this country. It's

01:53:19.039 --> 01:53:25.039
like 3%. 98 % of soy is produced with glyphosate.

01:53:25.380 --> 01:53:28.640
If you ban glyphosate overnight or if you got

01:53:28.640 --> 01:53:31.100
rid of it or if somebody else cut off our supply.

01:53:32.239 --> 01:53:36.680
it would destroy the American food system. How

01:53:36.680 --> 01:53:40.220
crazy is that statement? The American food, the

01:53:40.220 --> 01:53:43.239
entire system, is based on using the poison.

01:53:43.479 --> 01:53:47.220
Right. Farmers don't like it. Let me just explain

01:53:47.220 --> 01:53:52.479
what the EO did. Right now, according to the

01:53:52.479 --> 01:53:56.939
industry reports, 99 % of our glyphosate comes

01:53:56.939 --> 01:54:01.859
from China. The Pentagon and others said this

01:54:01.859 --> 01:54:04.260
is an extreme national security vulnerability,

01:54:04.500 --> 01:54:08.359
that China controls the U .S. food system. We

01:54:08.359 --> 01:54:10.699
can't afford to let that happen. If we got in

01:54:10.699 --> 01:54:13.619
some kind of tangle with them, it could literally

01:54:13.619 --> 01:54:16.260
cut off our food supply overnight and cripple

01:54:16.260 --> 01:54:19.539
the country. And so that's what the president

01:54:19.539 --> 01:54:22.880
was responding to. But we all know we've got

01:54:22.880 --> 01:54:25.220
to transition off of glyphosate. We all know

01:54:25.220 --> 01:54:29.949
that. And the farmers hate it. You know, they're

01:54:29.949 --> 01:54:33.949
now starting to see these these chemical resistant

01:54:33.949 --> 01:54:38.369
weeds so that that can't be treated with glyphosate.

01:54:38.529 --> 01:54:41.630
Now it's predictable. Do they hate the inputs?

01:54:41.710 --> 01:54:48.050
It's cost them a lot of money. Three, the foreign

01:54:48.050 --> 01:54:51.149
countries won't allow them to export like Europe

01:54:51.149 --> 01:54:53.229
doesn't allow. Most European countries don't

01:54:53.229 --> 01:54:55.689
allow the export of our crops to their countries.

01:54:55.869 --> 01:55:00.949
Well, how are they doing it? They use less glyphosate

01:55:00.949 --> 01:55:05.109
than we do. But they— Or they use some. They

01:55:05.109 --> 01:55:10.369
use it. But, you know, our system is all Roundup

01:55:10.369 --> 01:55:13.489
Ready corn and Roundup Ready soy. And so they

01:55:13.489 --> 01:55:15.649
don't, you know, they don't use it like we do

01:55:15.649 --> 01:55:19.109
over here. Ideally, we would transition away

01:55:19.109 --> 01:55:21.569
from that, right? Yeah. And it's also, they know

01:55:21.569 --> 01:55:24.329
it's destroying their soil. And they're all suffering

01:55:24.329 --> 01:55:26.970
from runoff. You know, it destroys the microbiome

01:55:26.970 --> 01:55:31.689
and the soil. Because of that, the soil, you

01:55:31.689 --> 01:55:36.989
don't get water infiltration in the soil. And

01:55:36.989 --> 01:55:41.510
so the soil then runs off, and it's destroying

01:55:41.510 --> 01:55:43.909
their farms. It's not sustainable. Everybody

01:55:43.909 --> 01:55:45.989
knows that. We had Will Harris from White Oak

01:55:45.989 --> 01:55:48.050
Pastures on here, and he showed us the literal

01:55:48.050 --> 01:55:51.630
line in the river between his organic farm and

01:55:51.630 --> 01:55:53.609
the next -door neighbor's farm. We could see

01:55:53.609 --> 01:55:56.689
this clear line where all the runoff is going

01:55:56.689 --> 01:55:58.810
into the river. Yeah, but Will Harris will also

01:55:58.810 --> 01:56:01.609
tell you the same thing that I said, is that—

01:56:02.590 --> 01:56:07.510
What he did is very hard. It took him 20 years.

01:56:07.789 --> 01:56:10.550
What? It took him 20 years. It took him 20 years,

01:56:10.630 --> 01:56:14.949
and it's not applicable to every farmer. He understands

01:56:14.949 --> 01:56:17.670
the problem, too. We all understand that this

01:56:17.670 --> 01:56:19.630
is a huge problem. The president was dealing

01:56:19.630 --> 01:56:22.649
with national security, and they did something

01:56:22.649 --> 01:56:25.510
that I really don't like, which is to support.

01:56:26.289 --> 01:56:30.039
There's a lawsuit. about that's now before the

01:56:30.039 --> 01:56:32.079
Supreme Court, but in the lower court they supported,

01:56:32.479 --> 01:56:37.100
is as for federal preemption. So that would mean

01:56:37.100 --> 01:56:46.880
that if the federal label says that this is safe,

01:56:47.039 --> 01:56:50.159
that these state lawsuits now cannot be brought.

01:56:50.279 --> 01:56:51.939
So it would throw out a lot of the state lawsuits

01:56:51.939 --> 01:56:55.020
and effectively gives them immunity from liability,

01:56:58.920 --> 01:57:02.020
which is, you know, to me, it's not good to give

01:57:02.020 --> 01:57:04.619
any company immunity from liability. It takes

01:57:04.619 --> 01:57:07.399
away all incentive for them to make the product

01:57:07.399 --> 01:57:10.760
safer. Again, the president is dealing with bigger

01:57:10.760 --> 01:57:13.359
issues, which is the company that's making this

01:57:13.359 --> 01:57:17.800
has paid $11 billion to, you know, in my lawsuit,

01:57:17.920 --> 01:57:21.380
they're just about to sign another $7 .6 billion

01:57:21.380 --> 01:57:24.859
settlement. There's 65 ,000 cases out there,

01:57:24.920 --> 01:57:28.039
and they've said, We're getting out of this business,

01:57:28.180 --> 01:57:31.560
you know, if we don't get relief. So the president

01:57:31.560 --> 01:57:34.979
is hearing that. The farmers are hearing that.

01:57:35.140 --> 01:57:37.640
And they're saying, you know, this is a temporary

01:57:37.640 --> 01:57:41.340
fix. We're putting huge amounts of money into

01:57:41.340 --> 01:57:44.560
studying the impacts of glyphosate right now

01:57:44.560 --> 01:57:49.420
in my agency. I'm doing that. And we're doing—and

01:57:49.420 --> 01:57:52.399
the president has made a big commitment, a billion

01:57:52.399 --> 01:57:54.359
-dollar commitment, not only to regenerate farming.

01:57:55.239 --> 01:58:01.579
but also to developing new ways of chemical,

01:58:01.859 --> 01:58:05.399
of dramatically reducing the amount of chemicals

01:58:05.399 --> 01:58:08.479
in our agriculture. I met this week with three

01:58:08.479 --> 01:58:12.760
farmers who are using this new system of lasers,

01:58:12.979 --> 01:58:18.039
which is now the cheapest way to control weeds

01:58:18.039 --> 01:58:21.880
in the vegetable fields. So, you know, vegetables,

01:58:21.979 --> 01:58:26.100
lettuce, celery. All of these vegetables now,

01:58:26.199 --> 01:58:29.039
they're using a lot of them. You're going to

01:58:29.039 --> 01:58:34.319
see a very quick transition. It's an attachment

01:58:34.319 --> 01:58:38.359
that is dragged by a tractor. It kills the weeds

01:58:38.359 --> 01:58:40.539
at every stage of their life. It identifies their

01:58:40.539 --> 01:58:42.899
species and kills them instantly all the way

01:58:42.899 --> 01:58:45.220
down through their roots by exploding them with

01:58:45.220 --> 01:58:49.880
this laser. And, yeah, here is one of them. This

01:58:49.880 --> 01:58:51.460
is what it looks like? Yeah, that's what it looks

01:58:51.460 --> 01:58:56.699
like. And this guy— Can I ask you this? Yeah.

01:58:56.779 --> 01:58:58.720
Does this have any negative effect whatsoever

01:58:58.720 --> 01:59:02.779
on the food? No. In fact, you get a 30 percent

01:59:02.779 --> 01:59:06.760
increase in productivity of the farm, and the

01:59:06.760 --> 01:59:10.239
growing season shortens by three weeks for onions.

01:59:10.539 --> 01:59:13.699
And that is a huge economic boom. Is that the

01:59:13.699 --> 01:59:16.560
way— It pays itself back. And for some of these

01:59:16.560 --> 01:59:22.289
farmers, it pays itself back in— in nine months.

01:59:23.050 --> 01:59:26.310
It's a million -dollar machine, but it pays back.

01:59:26.449 --> 01:59:29.789
They're paying vegetable fields. This onion producer

01:59:29.789 --> 01:59:31.970
in South Texas, the biggest onion producer in

01:59:31.970 --> 01:59:36.529
Texas, she has 8 ,000 acres. She was paying $1

01:59:36.529 --> 01:59:42.109
,500 per acre for pesticides, for mainly glyphosate

01:59:42.109 --> 01:59:45.510
and for manual labor. And now with this machine,

01:59:45.529 --> 01:59:49.739
it's $300. She's saving over $1 ,000 an acre.

01:59:49.920 --> 01:59:50.979
Is this showing how it does it to me? She's got

01:59:50.979 --> 01:59:53.420
8 ,000 acres. So it's a million -dollar machine,

01:59:53.539 --> 01:59:55.680
which sounds like a lot, but you've got 8 ,000

01:59:55.680 --> 01:59:58.439
acres and you're paying $1 ,500 an acre per growing

01:59:58.439 --> 02:00:03.300
season. I missed one. And, you know, now they're

02:00:03.300 --> 02:00:05.340
making them on drones. Maybe it was a crop. Yeah.

02:00:05.399 --> 02:00:07.970
Yeah. Interesting. There's all these kind of

02:00:07.970 --> 02:00:11.390
new, exciting technologies that give us a light

02:00:11.390 --> 02:00:13.470
at the end of the tunnel to transition. And it

02:00:13.470 --> 02:00:15.310
could be very, very fast. What the president

02:00:15.310 --> 02:00:19.390
wants to do is accelerate that. He says, yeah,

02:00:19.590 --> 02:00:23.229
we've got we can't allow. The company to go bankrupt,

02:00:23.369 --> 02:00:26.590
we can't allow foreign interference, but we got

02:00:26.590 --> 02:00:28.550
to get off of this stuff. We got to give these

02:00:28.550 --> 02:00:31.189
farmers an off ramp so that they can get off

02:00:31.189 --> 02:00:32.949
it because they don't want to be on it. Nobody

02:00:32.949 --> 02:00:34.250
wants to be on it. Without crashing the food

02:00:34.250 --> 02:00:36.569
system. Without crashing. So this is a bridge.

02:00:36.649 --> 02:00:39.109
This is a bridge to health. Yeah, exactly. You

02:00:39.109 --> 02:00:41.090
think would be technologies like this for weeds.

02:00:41.229 --> 02:00:45.409
What about for bugs? You know, it's harder. These

02:00:45.409 --> 02:00:50.949
systems are more difficult. They're not yet economic

02:00:50.949 --> 02:00:56.289
in the corn field, the row crops. They're economic

02:00:56.289 --> 02:00:58.369
for organic corn. And I talked to an organic

02:00:58.369 --> 02:01:00.550
corn farmer who is in love with his machine.

02:01:01.810 --> 02:01:05.109
But, yeah, they can do it for bugs, too. So they

02:01:05.109 --> 02:01:07.250
just zap the bugs? They zap the bugs. They identify

02:01:07.250 --> 02:01:11.970
them and zap them. But in the row crops, you

02:01:11.970 --> 02:01:13.909
know, these guys, the vegetable crops are paying

02:01:13.909 --> 02:01:18.779
$1 ,500 an acre. Row crops are 50 bucks an acre.

02:01:19.560 --> 02:01:22.779
And so to get economically to their level, they

02:01:22.779 --> 02:01:25.739
have to scale enormously. So that is, you know,

02:01:25.760 --> 02:01:29.100
how do we help them do that? How do we bring

02:01:29.100 --> 02:01:31.680
Silicon Valley entrepreneurs and billionaires

02:01:31.680 --> 02:01:33.960
in to start investing really heavily in these

02:01:33.960 --> 02:01:36.020
kind of technologies? And let's get off of this

02:01:36.020 --> 02:01:39.439
stuff. What are the primary health concerns about

02:01:39.439 --> 02:01:42.380
people that consume too much glyphosate? Or is

02:01:42.380 --> 02:01:46.350
there a threshold? I know there's like... a safe

02:01:46.350 --> 02:01:48.810
level that's supposed to be detectable in your

02:01:48.810 --> 02:01:50.750
blood? Like, what does that mean in terms of?

02:01:50.789 --> 02:01:53.210
I don't know if there is any safe level. I don't

02:01:53.210 --> 02:01:55.750
know. You know, I shouldn't even say there is

02:01:55.750 --> 02:01:58.710
a. That is what we are trying to figure out right

02:01:58.710 --> 02:02:03.489
now. And it's associated with non -alcoholic

02:02:03.489 --> 02:02:06.810
fatty liver disease. It's so, you know, there's

02:02:06.810 --> 02:02:09.630
a scientific association, but it's not strong

02:02:09.630 --> 02:02:13.479
enough for people to litigate on. The litigation

02:02:13.479 --> 02:02:16.699
was all about non -Hodgkin's lymphoma. Only that?

02:02:16.939 --> 02:02:19.220
Yeah, because that's the one thing that they

02:02:19.220 --> 02:02:22.760
had a critical mass of scientific studies supporting.

02:02:23.420 --> 02:02:26.260
Now, what about when they use it at the end of

02:02:26.260 --> 02:02:31.500
production? It definitely disrupts your gut biome.

02:02:31.640 --> 02:02:38.520
Yes. The advantage of glyphosate is, unlike the

02:02:38.520 --> 02:02:42.329
other poisons, It doesn't harm organic tissue,

02:02:42.489 --> 02:02:45.630
but it goes after plants, not animal tissue.

02:02:46.409 --> 02:02:52.109
Your stomach microbiome is plants. And so, you

02:02:52.109 --> 02:02:59.710
know, it may contribute to the celiac disease

02:02:59.710 --> 02:03:02.750
and to all these gluten allergies. It was coterminous

02:03:02.750 --> 02:03:06.250
with that, you know, the introduction of glyphosate.

02:03:10.019 --> 02:03:12.659
Roundup Ready corn, you know what Roundup Ready

02:03:12.659 --> 02:03:15.920
corn is, right? It means that you can spray the

02:03:15.920 --> 02:03:18.840
field and everything green dies except for the

02:03:18.840 --> 02:03:22.220
corn, which is immune to glyphosate. That's why

02:03:22.220 --> 02:03:25.600
it's so advantageous to them. It saves huge labor

02:03:25.600 --> 02:03:29.859
costs and it allows them to sell the corn at

02:03:29.859 --> 02:03:34.859
a price that people can afford. One of the most

02:03:34.859 --> 02:03:39.569
controversial uses is a desiccant. And that means

02:03:39.569 --> 02:03:43.250
that there is no Roundup Ready wheat. So normally

02:03:43.250 --> 02:03:46.289
they weren't using this in the wheat field. But

02:03:46.289 --> 02:03:50.170
around 2003, they started using it to dry out

02:03:50.170 --> 02:03:52.449
the wheat just before harvest. And that way they

02:03:52.449 --> 02:03:54.810
can harvest it without getting fungus on it and

02:03:54.810 --> 02:03:58.409
without getting mold on it. And for the first

02:03:58.409 --> 02:04:02.220
time, they were spraying it right on food. And

02:04:02.220 --> 02:04:05.199
so that is real, you know, the major factor for

02:04:05.199 --> 02:04:07.560
getting into human beings. And, you know, around

02:04:07.560 --> 02:04:10.399
2003 is when you started seeing these explosions

02:04:10.399 --> 02:04:14.260
and celiac disease and gluten allergies. There's

02:04:14.260 --> 02:04:16.439
no clear scientific evidence that it's related.

02:04:16.600 --> 02:04:19.800
But, you know, there is a, you know, there's

02:04:19.800 --> 02:04:22.439
some signals out there that now we're looking

02:04:22.439 --> 02:04:24.699
at HHS for the first time. They should have been

02:04:24.699 --> 02:04:31.180
looking at this 30 years ago. But we're doing

02:04:31.180 --> 02:04:33.640
it now. Well, there's a lot of anecdotal stories

02:04:33.640 --> 02:04:37.119
about people going to Italy or Spain and France,

02:04:37.380 --> 02:04:39.479
eating bread over there, not having any problem

02:04:39.479 --> 02:04:42.060
with it at all and being so confused. And then

02:04:42.060 --> 02:04:44.079
also people coming from Europe and eating in

02:04:44.079 --> 02:04:47.500
America and getting sick. And I don't know whether

02:04:47.500 --> 02:04:49.939
that – there's no telling whether that's glyphosate

02:04:49.939 --> 02:04:52.899
or other pesticides or whatever. But it's just

02:04:52.899 --> 02:04:57.810
something. I have a son. who had chronic eczema

02:04:57.810 --> 02:05:00.189
from when he was a kid, a disease I never heard

02:05:00.189 --> 02:05:03.289
of as a kid, and everybody's got it now. And

02:05:03.289 --> 02:05:05.350
he would get it any time that he ate spaghetti

02:05:05.350 --> 02:05:12.449
or bread. And he went to the University of Bologna.

02:05:12.449 --> 02:05:14.350
He went to Brown, and then he took a year at

02:05:14.350 --> 02:05:16.090
the University of Bologna, and he ate spaghetti

02:05:16.090 --> 02:05:20.659
three meals a day and had no problem. And you

02:05:20.659 --> 02:05:24.199
hear there's hundreds of stories like that that

02:05:24.199 --> 02:05:26.760
we've all heard. I feel different when I go to

02:05:26.760 --> 02:05:28.880
Italy. When I go to Italy and I eat over there,

02:05:28.899 --> 02:05:31.100
I feel different. I feel different if I use –

02:05:31.100 --> 02:05:36.239
there's a restaurant called Gaetano's in Las

02:05:36.239 --> 02:05:38.720
Vegas in Henderson, and they use all Italian

02:05:38.720 --> 02:05:41.159
flour. They import it all from Italy. It tastes

02:05:41.159 --> 02:05:43.000
different. It feels different. You don't feel

02:05:43.000 --> 02:05:46.020
terrible after you eat it. Something's wrong

02:05:46.020 --> 02:05:49.560
with our food, and everybody knows it. And the

02:05:49.560 --> 02:05:52.479
fact that it's become a left -wing or a right

02:05:52.479 --> 02:05:55.039
-wing issue is one of the dumbest decisions we've

02:05:55.039 --> 02:05:57.640
ever made as a country. And I know that a lot

02:05:57.640 --> 02:06:01.119
of it is, again, a lot of propaganda, a lot of

02:06:01.119 --> 02:06:03.119
these narratives trying to push people into thinking

02:06:03.119 --> 02:06:05.300
that things aren't dangerous because right -wing

02:06:05.300 --> 02:06:06.880
people believe in them and that it's nonsense.

02:06:08.439 --> 02:06:12.170
It's just... I don't know what that pathway is

02:06:12.170 --> 02:06:13.869
when you're dealing with monocrop agriculture

02:06:13.869 --> 02:06:16.210
and you have these enormous farms and you say

02:06:16.210 --> 02:06:19.250
98 percent is based on glyphosate use or whatever

02:06:19.250 --> 02:06:23.550
it is. Like, how do we get those people to ultimately

02:06:23.550 --> 02:06:27.489
transition? And if they do, could they even produce

02:06:27.489 --> 02:06:31.949
enough of their product to stay viable? I can

02:06:31.949 --> 02:06:34.069
tell. I mean, I've met with over 100 farmers

02:06:34.069 --> 02:06:36.569
and developing the food guidelines, our team.

02:06:37.690 --> 02:06:40.270
And, you know, I've been doing agricultural issues

02:06:40.270 --> 02:06:44.510
for 30 years. I can tell you, farmers are the

02:06:44.510 --> 02:06:47.409
most hardworking people that I've ever met. They

02:06:47.409 --> 02:06:51.069
are good people. They want to produce the healthiest

02:06:51.069 --> 02:06:54.729
foods. And they don't like the inputs are killing

02:06:54.729 --> 02:06:58.310
them. They're, you know, seven out of 10 years,

02:06:58.409 --> 02:07:02.149
farmers lose money. And there's no young people

02:07:02.149 --> 02:07:04.430
moving to the farm country anymore. So, you know,

02:07:04.489 --> 02:07:07.590
we really need to do what we can to make sure

02:07:07.590 --> 02:07:09.970
we don't lose any more farms in this country.

02:07:10.029 --> 02:07:11.529
And that's what the president's worried about.

02:07:12.289 --> 02:07:15.109
That has to be his priority. But he also wants

02:07:15.109 --> 02:07:20.909
to make sure we accelerate the off -ramps, the

02:07:20.909 --> 02:07:23.010
development of off -ramps, that they can transition

02:07:23.010 --> 02:07:25.289
off of this. And we're putting huge amounts of

02:07:25.289 --> 02:07:28.930
money into regenerative agriculture. People like

02:07:28.930 --> 02:07:36.170
Mr. Harris and meeting with him, Brooke Rollins,

02:07:36.210 --> 02:07:39.010
meeting with these guys all the time, trying

02:07:39.010 --> 02:07:41.729
to figure out how do we help you? How do we help

02:07:41.729 --> 02:07:44.489
other farmers to do what you're doing? And that

02:07:44.489 --> 02:07:49.930
is a priority for the administration. Do you

02:07:49.930 --> 02:07:53.149
envision a possibility, a real possibility of

02:07:53.149 --> 02:07:56.310
a country that is all regenerative agriculture

02:07:56.310 --> 02:08:00.210
with no pesticides? Is that even possible that

02:08:00.210 --> 02:08:01.949
we could get to a point, whether it's a decade

02:08:01.949 --> 02:08:04.270
from now or two decades from now, where we've

02:08:04.270 --> 02:08:07.289
completely eradicated the uses of these harmful

02:08:07.289 --> 02:08:08.970
chemicals? I mean, I think that's going to happen.

02:08:09.109 --> 02:08:11.630
You know, I think technology is going to allow

02:08:11.630 --> 02:08:18.119
that to happen. You're going to have a lot of

02:08:18.119 --> 02:08:20.739
robotic farming happening, and that's another

02:08:20.739 --> 02:08:25.399
question. Well, that's robotic with these lasers.

02:08:25.439 --> 02:08:27.619
That's essentially what you're doing. Yeah, yeah.

02:08:28.960 --> 02:08:30.119
So that would be the solution. And you're going

02:08:30.119 --> 02:08:33.100
to have drones doing this. You'll have drone

02:08:33.100 --> 02:08:37.159
swarms over farms killing insects. What about

02:08:37.159 --> 02:08:39.880
industrial fertilizer? What would be the solution

02:08:39.880 --> 02:08:43.220
to that? That's a little more difficult, particularly

02:08:43.220 --> 02:08:47.609
in some parts of the country. You need nutrients

02:08:47.609 --> 02:08:52.649
in the soil. But there's ways of growing, and

02:08:52.649 --> 02:08:56.810
Harris has shown this, where you can dramatically

02:08:56.810 --> 02:09:01.529
reduce the amount of petroleum -based fertilizers

02:09:01.529 --> 02:09:04.710
that you're using, dramatically almost eliminate

02:09:04.710 --> 02:09:08.090
them. Sure, but the scale of his farm and the

02:09:08.090 --> 02:09:09.989
scale of the production in comparison to these

02:09:09.989 --> 02:09:12.229
monocrop agriculture places that produce corn,

02:09:12.390 --> 02:09:14.729
I mean, these people are dealing with enormous

02:09:14.729 --> 02:09:17.989
amounts of crops. The question is, could that

02:09:17.989 --> 02:09:20.930
be scaled regeneratively? Could you get it to

02:09:20.930 --> 02:09:27.289
a point where you have organic farms only? You

02:09:27.289 --> 02:09:29.949
know, I think with technology, you're going to

02:09:29.949 --> 02:09:32.670
eliminate a lot of the pesticides and the herbicides.

02:09:37.260 --> 02:09:40.039
It's going to be much slower when you talk about

02:09:40.039 --> 02:09:44.520
fertilizers. But is there a pathway for that?

02:09:44.779 --> 02:09:48.800
I hope so. But you haven't? No. No. Because it's

02:09:48.800 --> 02:09:52.300
so far off? Yeah, I mean, that's going to be

02:09:52.300 --> 02:09:55.460
after my three years before that happens. Do

02:09:55.460 --> 02:09:59.319
you, I mean, if someone else wins and they want

02:09:59.319 --> 02:10:02.189
you to stay, are you going to stay? Do you have

02:10:02.189 --> 02:10:04.149
a thought of that or do you want to do as much

02:10:04.149 --> 02:10:07.090
as you can in four years? Well, whatever happens

02:10:07.090 --> 02:10:08.569
because you can't tell what's going to happen

02:10:08.569 --> 02:10:14.329
in the election. I'm going to act as if I've

02:10:14.329 --> 02:10:18.329
got three years to do everything. And if I get

02:10:18.329 --> 02:10:22.949
more time, then I would probably take it. How

02:10:22.949 --> 02:10:26.829
many days a week are you working? Well, I work.

02:10:28.070 --> 02:10:30.989
I mean, I'm working. When I'm home, I'm working.

02:10:31.189 --> 02:10:34.270
It doesn't stop. It's just your luck. And then

02:10:34.270 --> 02:10:36.609
we have a president who has, you know, never

02:10:36.609 --> 02:10:39.770
stops working. And he's up till 11, 12 at night,

02:10:39.890 --> 02:10:43.310
you know, which you can get a call at that point.

02:10:43.409 --> 02:10:45.810
Yeah. He says, were you sleeping 2 o 'clock in

02:10:45.810 --> 02:10:48.869
the morning? Yeah. No. No, of course not. I was

02:10:48.869 --> 02:10:54.229
working. He's an interesting guy to work for.

02:10:54.670 --> 02:10:56.590
Yeah, he's got a lot of energy for an old guy.

02:10:56.609 --> 02:10:58.369
He's got an incredible amount of it. I've never

02:10:58.369 --> 02:11:00.609
seen anything like it, particularly with the

02:11:00.609 --> 02:11:03.470
food he eats. Yeah. I don't know how he does

02:11:03.470 --> 02:11:06.329
it. He's still eating mostly, I mean. I've never

02:11:06.329 --> 02:11:10.109
seen it. Well, let me put it this way. When he's

02:11:10.109 --> 02:11:13.369
on the road, he eats, like, fast food because

02:11:13.369 --> 02:11:17.670
he trusts it. He doesn't want to eat in some

02:11:17.670 --> 02:11:20.890
local place where, you know, he gets food poisoning

02:11:20.890 --> 02:11:26.609
or something. When he's at home at the White

02:11:26.609 --> 02:11:30.210
House or Mar -a -Lago, it is the, you know, it's

02:11:30.210 --> 02:11:34.510
all like locally sourced, incredible food. Oh,

02:11:34.529 --> 02:11:36.930
that's good. So he eats well. I mean, but he

02:11:36.930 --> 02:11:40.590
still drinks. Dana White told me that he's known

02:11:40.590 --> 02:11:42.449
him for 20 years and he's never seen him drink

02:11:42.449 --> 02:11:45.569
water. Just drinks Coca -Cola? What does he drink?

02:11:45.630 --> 02:11:48.470
Diet Coke, right? Diet Coke, yeah. I just had

02:11:48.470 --> 02:11:50.050
Michael Malice in here. He was talking about

02:11:50.050 --> 02:11:52.470
how he got off aspartame and how his brain fog

02:11:52.470 --> 02:11:54.869
just completely cleared up. He was drinking Diet

02:11:54.869 --> 02:11:59.329
Coke every day. That is a really sleazy saga

02:11:59.329 --> 02:12:01.430
about how that got into her. We talked about

02:12:01.430 --> 02:12:04.149
it the other day. Yeah, we brought it up. Donald

02:12:04.149 --> 02:12:07.979
Rumsfeld. Donald Rumsfeld. Yeah. And there was

02:12:07.979 --> 02:12:11.979
a really good FDA commissioner back then named

02:12:11.979 --> 02:12:18.119
David Kennedy. No relation, but he was a guy

02:12:18.119 --> 02:12:20.380
from Stanford. I think he was the president of

02:12:20.380 --> 02:12:23.100
Stanford for a while. And he was really good,

02:12:23.199 --> 02:12:25.800
had total integrity. He was like David Kessler,

02:12:25.859 --> 02:12:31.340
another really great FDA head. And he banned

02:12:31.340 --> 02:12:36.479
aspartame. Rumsfeld came in there and just overruled

02:12:36.479 --> 02:12:39.619
them. Rumsfeld had owned Searle, which was making

02:12:39.619 --> 02:12:48.039
it. That's how it worked. Well, that's why this

02:12:48.039 --> 02:12:51.439
time with you in office has been encouraging.

02:12:51.859 --> 02:12:54.880
I mean you doing the things that you wanted to

02:12:54.880 --> 02:12:57.460
do was to me the most interesting thing about

02:12:57.460 --> 02:13:00.880
this administration going in because I knew your

02:13:00.880 --> 02:13:04.199
conviction. I had read your – your Fauci book.

02:13:04.399 --> 02:13:06.479
And I'm like, if anybody could do something about

02:13:06.479 --> 02:13:09.680
this, it's you. And I'm kind of amazed at how

02:13:09.680 --> 02:13:13.420
much you have been able to do. And also, you

02:13:13.420 --> 02:13:16.199
know, watching the struggle, the difficulties

02:13:16.199 --> 02:13:17.960
of getting things pushed through that should

02:13:17.960 --> 02:13:19.939
have been pushed through easily with rational

02:13:19.939 --> 02:13:24.300
thinking. It's a fascinating time because we

02:13:24.300 --> 02:13:26.770
are in a time of change. Some of it's good. Some

02:13:26.770 --> 02:13:29.489
of it's bad. But we're definitely in a time of

02:13:29.489 --> 02:13:31.770
change. And that's not something you can say

02:13:31.770 --> 02:13:33.649
about every administration. It's definitely not

02:13:33.649 --> 02:13:35.229
something you can say about everybody that's

02:13:35.229 --> 02:13:37.970
been the head of the HHS. You're the first guy

02:13:37.970 --> 02:13:40.149
that gave me hope when you got in there. I'm

02:13:40.149 --> 02:13:43.149
like, OK, maybe we'll see some meaningful change

02:13:43.149 --> 02:13:45.090
with some things that are really important for

02:13:45.090 --> 02:13:48.630
people's health. I think we're doing it. I think

02:13:48.630 --> 02:13:51.090
you are. I think you're doing that. Is there

02:13:51.090 --> 02:13:53.130
anything else you want to talk about, any other

02:13:53.130 --> 02:13:54.810
subjects you want to cover? Why don't you ask

02:13:54.810 --> 02:13:57.029
me about immigration because I know that that's

02:13:57.029 --> 02:13:59.970
something that's just to hurt you. Well, what

02:13:59.970 --> 02:14:03.310
are your thoughts on immigration, on what's going

02:14:03.310 --> 02:14:06.750
on? Well, you know, here's the background on

02:14:06.750 --> 02:14:11.029
my kind of assumptions. During the last 10 years

02:14:11.029 --> 02:14:13.170
of his life, I worked very closely with Cesar

02:14:13.170 --> 02:14:17.380
Chavez. He had two issues. He had pesticides,

02:14:17.539 --> 02:14:19.600
which were a huge issue with him, and that's

02:14:19.600 --> 02:14:21.979
what I worked with him on, on the dangers that

02:14:21.979 --> 02:14:27.100
his workers were experiencing from pesticides.

02:14:27.260 --> 02:14:29.760
And the other issue he had was immigration. He

02:14:29.760 --> 02:14:32.460
wanted to shut down the border because he saw

02:14:32.460 --> 02:14:37.300
the way that it was impairing this huge influx

02:14:37.300 --> 02:14:42.239
of illegal migration across the border. It was

02:14:42.239 --> 02:14:47.069
impairing. his ability to bargain, to leverage

02:14:47.069 --> 02:14:50.489
good wages and conditions for his workers. When

02:14:50.489 --> 02:14:53.529
I grew up, the Democratic Party was against immigration,

02:14:53.890 --> 02:14:56.569
and it was the Republican Party who wanted it

02:14:56.569 --> 02:14:58.550
because the big corporations wanted cheap labor.

02:14:59.369 --> 02:15:03.289
The Chamber of Commerce was firmly embedded in

02:15:03.289 --> 02:15:05.229
the Republican Party, and they were all about

02:15:05.229 --> 02:15:08.369
open borders. Today, the Chamber of Commerce

02:15:08.369 --> 02:15:11.199
is with the Democratic Party. And so it's one

02:15:11.199 --> 02:15:13.800
of these switches that is kind of inexplicable

02:15:13.800 --> 02:15:16.800
to me. But I think, again, it happened because

02:15:16.800 --> 02:15:19.460
President Trump said, I'm going to fix it with

02:15:19.460 --> 02:15:22.819
a wall. And that became, you know, suddenly became

02:15:22.819 --> 02:15:26.680
open borders, suddenly became a calling card

02:15:26.680 --> 02:15:28.899
for the Democratic Party. But there's a reason,

02:15:28.979 --> 02:15:31.739
you know, and I see it in my agency, the cause

02:15:31.739 --> 02:15:36.479
that it's imposing on our country and, you know,

02:15:36.500 --> 02:15:40.300
on health care. diminishing health care for Americans

02:15:40.300 --> 02:15:44.779
and housing and jobs and all of these places

02:15:44.779 --> 02:15:48.720
where it hurts that we need workers in here and

02:15:48.720 --> 02:15:52.500
we need legal immigrants in here. They should

02:15:52.500 --> 02:15:55.000
come in legally, and every country has to do

02:15:55.000 --> 02:15:59.420
that. As in Trump ran on this issue, he's now,

02:15:59.579 --> 02:16:01.880
and he ran that he's going to enforce it and

02:16:01.880 --> 02:16:05.189
deport particularly the bad people. This is what

02:16:05.189 --> 02:16:07.930
you don't hear. 70 % of the people that they've

02:16:07.930 --> 02:16:11.770
arrested have criminal records. What the Democrats

02:16:11.770 --> 02:16:14.670
are always saying is only 14 % of them have been

02:16:14.670 --> 02:16:16.810
convicted of a violent crime. Well, they've been

02:16:16.810 --> 02:16:19.850
convicted. A lot of them, the other ones, have

02:16:19.850 --> 02:16:21.609
been arrested, and they just haven't been convicted

02:16:21.609 --> 02:16:26.550
yet because they jumped bail or they jumped their

02:16:26.550 --> 02:16:31.350
warrants. The other 30%, a lot of them, are gang

02:16:31.350 --> 02:16:34.549
members. When they go looking for an immigrant,

02:16:34.950 --> 02:16:38.610
they're not just randomly searching, you know,

02:16:38.629 --> 02:16:41.430
restaurants. They're going after particular people

02:16:41.430 --> 02:16:44.530
who they've gotten their names from local law

02:16:44.530 --> 02:16:47.649
enforcement and from others. During the Biden

02:16:47.649 --> 02:16:50.229
or during the Obama administration, President

02:16:50.229 --> 02:16:53.649
Obama deported more people than President Trump

02:16:53.649 --> 02:16:58.569
did, most in history. Nobody cared. And there

02:16:58.569 --> 02:17:03.780
were 76 people shot. During that process, during

02:17:03.780 --> 02:17:06.120
the Biden administration, none of it made headlines.

02:17:06.260 --> 02:17:10.159
About half of those people were killed. None

02:17:10.159 --> 02:17:13.420
of it made the news. Now, because it's Trump

02:17:13.420 --> 02:17:16.879
doing it, you have the entire Democratic Party

02:17:16.879 --> 02:17:19.040
in the media establishment saying, oh, look at

02:17:19.040 --> 02:17:21.139
the horrible things. He's a dictator, but he's

02:17:21.139 --> 02:17:22.799
doing what he promised to do to the American

02:17:22.799 --> 02:17:28.020
people. It's very disturbing watching what you

02:17:28.020 --> 02:17:32.409
see on TV. The thing that makes it most disturbing

02:17:32.409 --> 02:17:36.030
is because there's so much interaction with protesters,

02:17:36.370 --> 02:17:40.190
which is weird that the Democrats are telling

02:17:40.190 --> 02:17:42.870
protesters to go out there and stop law enforcement

02:17:42.870 --> 02:17:47.770
from doing its job. That's not how protests usually

02:17:47.770 --> 02:17:51.770
work. If you don't like U .S. drug policy, which

02:17:51.770 --> 02:17:53.909
you don't, you know, and a lot of people don't.

02:17:53.909 --> 02:17:56.010
A lot of people don't like the war on drugs at

02:17:56.010 --> 02:17:59.620
all. They think it's counterproductive. You wouldn't

02:17:59.620 --> 02:18:02.000
send people to try and interfere with people

02:18:02.000 --> 02:18:07.340
who are arresting a drug dealer. And when you

02:18:07.340 --> 02:18:09.360
have thousands and thousands of people doing

02:18:09.360 --> 02:18:12.860
that, there's going to be thousands of interactions.

02:18:12.979 --> 02:18:15.200
And some of those are going to end badly because

02:18:15.200 --> 02:18:17.459
you have armed people doing dangerous things.

02:18:18.340 --> 02:18:21.299
And when you have crowds doing that, it's going

02:18:21.299 --> 02:18:27.100
to blow up. And so, you know, I. I see this,

02:18:27.239 --> 02:18:31.340
you know, nobody is happy with the way that things

02:18:31.340 --> 02:18:34.420
have looked, particularly in Minnesota. But a

02:18:34.420 --> 02:18:36.899
lot of it is because of this capacity of the

02:18:36.899 --> 02:18:43.200
press to take Trump derangement syndrome and

02:18:43.200 --> 02:18:48.520
amplify it into public outrage and set up a situation.

02:18:48.540 --> 02:18:52.819
I mean, if you were a dad. I wouldn't send my

02:18:52.819 --> 02:18:55.620
kids out to interfere with a law enforcement

02:18:55.620 --> 02:18:59.260
operation. There's other ways to protest. But

02:18:59.260 --> 02:19:03.260
so I think that, you know, I think now they're

02:19:03.260 --> 02:19:05.040
pulling out of Minnesota and they're going to

02:19:05.040 --> 02:19:07.620
do this, you know, in other states where they're

02:19:07.620 --> 02:19:09.719
not going to get that kind of crowd interaction.

02:19:11.020 --> 02:19:14.139
But a lot of the people that they're arresting

02:19:14.139 --> 02:19:17.479
are not. There are people who are actually –

02:19:17.479 --> 02:19:21.079
have, like I said, 70 percent of criminal records.

02:19:22.100 --> 02:19:24.680
Yeah, we've actually covered that here. And then

02:19:24.680 --> 02:19:26.399
there's also the issue that this is the first

02:19:26.399 --> 02:19:28.200
time in history that the border has been wide

02:19:28.200 --> 02:19:31.040
open for four years. It's a different thing.

02:19:31.420 --> 02:19:33.620
It's a different thing when you have at least

02:19:33.620 --> 02:19:36.270
10 million people. They don't even know how many

02:19:36.270 --> 02:19:38.389
for real. Yeah, it could be 20 million. They

02:19:38.389 --> 02:19:41.129
don't know. And that's a lot. And to have that

02:19:41.129 --> 02:19:44.729
happen all at once is pretty crazy. I think what

02:19:44.729 --> 02:19:48.870
disturbs people is, again, obviously these violent

02:19:48.870 --> 02:19:52.590
interactions. What should disturb them is that

02:19:52.590 --> 02:19:54.850
these are not organic protests. These protests

02:19:54.850 --> 02:19:57.770
are organized and paid for, and that's crazy.

02:19:58.030 --> 02:20:00.209
When you find that out and you find out that

02:20:00.209 --> 02:20:03.829
people can actually be paid to protest and that

02:20:03.829 --> 02:20:05.930
they provide them with signs, they tell them

02:20:05.930 --> 02:20:07.590
what they do, it's organized, they have signal

02:20:07.590 --> 02:20:10.329
chats. There's been a lot of people online talking

02:20:10.329 --> 02:20:12.489
about being paid to protest in certain places,

02:20:12.629 --> 02:20:15.229
and that's kind of insane that that's even legal,

02:20:15.350 --> 02:20:18.309
that you can organize a mob and pay them to go

02:20:18.309 --> 02:20:21.329
and make a bunch of noise. It's like the color

02:20:21.329 --> 02:20:24.090
revolution. Right. Exactly. And that it just

02:20:24.090 --> 02:20:28.110
happened to take place in the place where hundreds

02:20:28.110 --> 02:20:30.229
of millions of dollars of fraud was being exposed.

02:20:30.530 --> 02:20:32.649
So then the narrative completely shifts away

02:20:32.649 --> 02:20:35.629
from the fraud and onto this unnecessary violence

02:20:35.629 --> 02:20:39.149
with ICE. And then there's the natural thing

02:20:39.149 --> 02:20:41.969
that people have, this distrust of people wearing

02:20:41.969 --> 02:20:44.350
masks. They don't like that. They don't like

02:20:44.350 --> 02:20:47.409
officers wearing masks. But on the other side.

02:20:48.079 --> 02:20:49.940
They have to wear masks because they're being

02:20:49.940 --> 02:20:51.659
doxxed and their families are being threatened

02:20:51.659 --> 02:20:53.760
and you're filming everything they do and you're

02:20:53.760 --> 02:20:58.459
these organized instigators. So if it wasn't

02:20:58.459 --> 02:21:02.180
for organized protest, I wonder if those particular

02:21:02.180 --> 02:21:04.700
interactions would have even happened, would

02:21:04.700 --> 02:21:09.120
have even taken place. And I know you're saying

02:21:09.120 --> 02:21:11.520
that they don't – that they're targeting specific

02:21:11.520 --> 02:21:15.139
people. They're going after bad people. But also

02:21:15.139 --> 02:21:17.629
they're showing up at Home Depot and just – grabbing

02:21:17.629 --> 02:21:20.250
people too and trying to find out if someone

02:21:20.250 --> 02:21:22.950
is a bad guy or a good guy. So there's probably

02:21:22.950 --> 02:21:25.870
a lot of people that are just people that got

02:21:25.870 --> 02:21:27.649
duped into coming to this country thinking they're

02:21:27.649 --> 02:21:29.350
going to be welcomed. And then they come over

02:21:29.350 --> 02:21:30.909
here and they're trying to get jobs. And now

02:21:30.909 --> 02:21:33.110
they're getting arrested and deported. You know,

02:21:33.129 --> 02:21:35.969
it wasn't their fault that they were encouraged

02:21:35.969 --> 02:21:38.149
and brought into this country, but they did break

02:21:38.149 --> 02:21:40.670
the law. And I understand. I understand that

02:21:40.670 --> 02:21:44.879
perspective, but it's kind of insane. That no

02:21:44.879 --> 02:21:47.520
one is pointing the blame at the fact that they

02:21:47.520 --> 02:21:49.879
let at least 10 billion people or 10 million,

02:21:49.940 --> 02:21:52.100
excuse me, people into this country over the

02:21:52.100 --> 02:21:55.319
last four years, at least being charitable. It's

02:21:55.319 --> 02:21:57.959
kind of not. I was down at the border and, you

02:21:57.959 --> 02:22:00.139
know, I was on when I during my presidential

02:22:00.139 --> 02:22:03.360
campaign, I went down there and went down a bunch

02:22:03.360 --> 02:22:06.899
of times. But the first night I went down there

02:22:06.899 --> 02:22:11.319
to Tucson. And I couldn't believe what I was

02:22:11.319 --> 02:22:13.159
seeing. It was like the Boston Marathon, the

02:22:13.159 --> 02:22:15.340
beginning of it, just the sheer number. And they

02:22:15.340 --> 02:22:17.360
were, you know, they all had it planned. The

02:22:17.360 --> 02:22:19.959
cartels were all, you know, running the whole

02:22:19.959 --> 02:22:23.399
thing. They were advertising all over the world

02:22:23.399 --> 02:22:27.459
and bringing people in. And everybody was, the

02:22:27.459 --> 02:22:30.739
Border Patrol was completely demoralized. They

02:22:30.739 --> 02:22:34.500
were told, don't arrest anybody. Just fingerprint

02:22:34.500 --> 02:22:36.040
them. If they're a criminal, turn them back.

02:22:37.770 --> 02:22:39.549
You know, most of these people, they couldn't

02:22:39.549 --> 02:22:43.850
figure that out. And otherwise, put them on a

02:22:43.850 --> 02:22:45.690
bus or a plane to anywhere they wanted to go

02:22:45.690 --> 02:22:48.370
in the country. So it was just— And at the same

02:22:48.370 --> 02:22:50.350
time, you have legitimate people that are doing

02:22:50.350 --> 02:22:52.370
it the right way that have to go through a long

02:22:52.370 --> 02:22:55.370
and difficult, lengthy process to attain citizenship

02:22:55.370 --> 02:22:57.129
and to come here or get a green card and come

02:22:57.129 --> 02:23:01.409
here. The whole thing was crazy. And one of the

02:23:01.409 --> 02:23:03.370
complicated issues that you have now, a bunch

02:23:03.370 --> 02:23:06.889
of sanctuary cities and sanctuary states. And

02:23:06.889 --> 02:23:10.590
it used to be that if somebody who was an illegal

02:23:10.590 --> 02:23:15.110
immigrant was arrested for a crime and put in

02:23:15.110 --> 02:23:20.209
the local jail, ICE was notified. So ICE would

02:23:20.209 --> 02:23:23.549
then come and local law enforcement would transfer

02:23:23.549 --> 02:23:26.610
it to ICE. In the sanctuary cities, they don't

02:23:26.610 --> 02:23:29.450
do that. They just let them go. And, you know,

02:23:29.590 --> 02:23:33.350
it's not— How is that legal? That seems insane.

02:23:33.610 --> 02:23:35.149
That seems like it's a violation. Because it

02:23:35.149 --> 02:23:38.049
was never a law. It was just a policy that law

02:23:38.049 --> 02:23:40.229
enforcement always cooperated with each other.

02:23:41.090 --> 02:23:43.409
Now, because Trump's in there, they're saying,

02:23:43.590 --> 02:23:49.129
OK, we would rather take the side of a criminal

02:23:49.129 --> 02:23:53.549
than take the side of the president. So they're

02:23:53.549 --> 02:23:58.190
choosing sides. It's like the other day during

02:23:58.190 --> 02:24:02.399
the— During the State of the Union speech when

02:24:02.399 --> 02:24:05.760
President Trump said – he was talking about immigration

02:24:05.760 --> 02:24:09.200
and he said, please stand up if you think that

02:24:09.200 --> 02:24:11.399
law enforcement should protect the American people

02:24:11.399 --> 02:24:15.399
over illegal immigrants and not a single Democrat

02:24:15.399 --> 02:24:19.799
stood. How can you do that? Well, that's what

02:24:19.799 --> 02:24:21.319
we were talking about earlier, what you were

02:24:21.319 --> 02:24:23.600
saying. It's just they're ideologically captured.

02:24:24.180 --> 02:24:26.139
Yeah. I mean that should be something. If you

02:24:26.139 --> 02:24:27.920
want to be taken seriously, you're a reasonable

02:24:27.920 --> 02:24:31.360
person. You would stand up for that. Yeah. Yeah.

02:24:32.579 --> 02:24:35.260
It just it really disturbs people when you see

02:24:35.260 --> 02:24:38.200
masked people grabbing people. Oh, yeah. Arresting

02:24:38.200 --> 02:24:40.100
people. And a lot of them turn out to be American

02:24:40.100 --> 02:24:42.520
citizens. You know, that's part of the problem,

02:24:42.579 --> 02:24:45.319
too. But I did look at a chart recently because

02:24:45.319 --> 02:24:47.280
I thought it was fascinating. The number of American

02:24:47.280 --> 02:24:50.379
citizens that were arrested, what percentage

02:24:50.379 --> 02:24:54.200
during what Obama did versus during Trump. It's

02:24:54.200 --> 02:24:57.750
actually, I think, higher. More American citizens

02:24:57.750 --> 02:25:01.450
were arrested during this Obama thing. You just

02:25:01.450 --> 02:25:03.510
never heard about it. Also, if you hear Obama

02:25:03.510 --> 02:25:06.250
talk about immigration, if you hear Hillary talk

02:25:06.250 --> 02:25:08.989
about immigration, or if you hear Bill talk about

02:25:08.989 --> 02:25:11.149
immigration, you would swear they were running

02:25:11.149 --> 02:25:14.799
for president as a Republican. If you listen

02:25:14.799 --> 02:25:17.000
to the things they were saying back then, it

02:25:17.000 --> 02:25:20.079
was very much the Republican perspective. That

02:25:20.079 --> 02:25:24.760
was the Democratic Party always was against an

02:25:24.760 --> 02:25:27.620
open border. Yeah. Bernie even said it's like

02:25:27.620 --> 02:25:30.120
open borders or that's a Republican idea. They

02:25:30.120 --> 02:25:35.629
want cheap labor. Yeah. So, all right. Anything

02:25:35.629 --> 02:25:37.770
else before we wrap this up? Listen, thank you

02:25:37.770 --> 02:25:40.350
very much for all your hard work. And it's really

02:25:40.350 --> 02:25:42.809
– it's very exciting for me to have someone like

02:25:42.809 --> 02:25:45.010
you doing what you're doing because I do know

02:25:45.010 --> 02:25:47.450
that you really want to push for meaningful change.

02:25:47.549 --> 02:25:51.430
It's genuinely going to help. And I think, you

02:25:51.430 --> 02:25:53.909
know, so far you're on a good path. So I hope

02:25:53.909 --> 02:25:55.790
we can get all the other stuff done too. Well,

02:25:55.809 --> 02:25:57.590
thank you, Joe, and thanks for the conversation.

02:25:57.590 --> 02:25:59.829
My pleasure. And thanks for all of your conversations.

02:26:00.290 --> 02:26:02.129
My pleasure. Thanks for being here. All right.

02:26:02.590 --> 02:26:03.229
Bye, everybody.