WEBVTT

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Welcome to this independent archival transcript of the Joe Rogan Experience. This session features the complete conversation from Episode #1691 regarding North Korean Defection, Human Rights Survival, and Global Geopolitics
Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan

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Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by

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night, all day. Well, very nice to meet you,

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first of all. So nice to meet you. Thanks for

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coming here. Is this your first time in Texas?

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No, I've been here before. You've been to Austin

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before? Yes. So for people who don't know your

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story, I'm just going to give them a primer,

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just to sort of establish. Your history. You

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were born in North Korea and you escaped North

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Korea when you were 13? Is that how old you were?

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I think we should start off with what it was

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like living in North Korea. I saw your interview

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with Jordan Peterson and it was incredibly moving

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and it was incredibly disturbing and eye -opening.

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It's hard to believe for people that don't know

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what life is like in North Korea, the reality

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of you growing up in North Korea. But just talking

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about how you essentially had no food and you

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would go looking for bugs to eat. Yeah. This

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was the reality of your existence as a child

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that there was no protein. Yeah. Now that you

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live here in America and you can kind of eat

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whatever you want, when you look back on that,

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what does it seem like to you? Does it seem like

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reality? Does it seem like a dream? What does

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your childhood seem like? Sometimes this feels

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like a dream. This feels like a dream. Yeah,

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so I pinched myself a lot in the beginning. Because

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they say if it's not a dream, it hurts, right?

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When you pinch yourself. So a lot of times I

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pinch myself because sometimes I'm really horrified

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if I wake up from this that I'm going to wake

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up in my living room in North Korea. So sometimes

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that lie is very blurry to me. Because the one

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common thing that North Koreans all have is actually

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in our dreams when we sleep, it's back in North

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Korea. So in our dream, we somehow never able

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to escape it. So every day my mom wakes up, like

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she tells me about story how she was back in

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North Korea. And I have the exact same thing.

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No matter what, how many years we left afterwards,

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in our dreams, we are still in that country.

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So that's the nightmare. The nightmare is that

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you're still trapped in North Korea. When you

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lived there, you didn't know that there was another

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way to live. No. It's like here right now, we

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cannot imagine a life in some different planet

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in the universe, right? We just don't know what

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that life looks like. Exactly the same thing.

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I never knew the life in different planet could

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be like. And where you lived in North Korea,

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there was no internet. Yeah. There's very little

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electricity, right? And how much education did

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you get? I never even seen the map of the world.

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So as an Asian, I did not even know that I was

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Asian. So the regime told me I was a Kim Il -sung

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race. Kim Il -sung race. Yeah. And then the North

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Korean calendar begins when Kim Il -sung was

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born. That's like Juche one, that our history

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begins. So I don't even know what Jesus Christ

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is. And I don't know anything before Kim. There

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was everything before Kim, the history was re

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-raised for us. But the thing is that we are

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hungry, we're starving. If you eat breakfast,

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you worry about lunch. If you make it to dinner,

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you are not sure if you're going to make it to

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tomorrow. So in that scenario, who thinks about

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history? Nobody thinks about anything other than

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surviving. And that is why precisely Kim Jong

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-un keeping us starving mode, even though the

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UN, the international organizations, begging

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to give food and formula to North Korean people.

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But Kim Jong -un is saying no to this food aid

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because he doesn't want us to be fed. So he's

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purposely starving the people to keep them weak

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so that all they think about is surviving so

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they don't think about revolution. It's a hunger

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games. It's like when I was reading this book,

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Hunger Games, I literally like, oh my God, this

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person copied North Korea. There's a capital.

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You divide into 13 different districts. Capital

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people have everything they need. And on other

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provinces, their own purpose, they're being starved.

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So only thing you can think of your survivor.

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If you are full in your stomach, right, you're

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going to start thinking about meaning of life,

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art, what's out in the universe. You can do all

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of that higher thinking when you are full in

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your stomach. But when you're hungry, the only

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thing that matters is your hunger. When did North

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Korea become what it is now? When did it shift

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to this totalitarian regime that's starving its

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people? and puts people in these classifications.

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For one example, one of the classifications is

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if your grandfather or great -grandfather committed

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some sort of a sin, you are perpetually punished

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for that. Everyone in your generation, your next

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generation, all of them are guilty. Yeah, forever.

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There's no redemption. If the one person commits

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a crime in that family clan, three to eight generations

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got to be purged. How many generations? Three

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to eight generations. Three to eight? Yes. Mostly

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commonly three, but the people who challenge

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the regime or challenge the leader, then eight

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generations get purged. Eight generations. Yeah.

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And then after the eighth generation, are they

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absolved? No, they're all gone. They're all gone.

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By eight generations, you even kill in -laws

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of somebody in -law. So not even the blood you

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get purged. If your cousin, somebody married

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the in -law of somebody, so there was one official

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who escaped, 35 ,000 people were purged. A lot

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of them, 80 % of them, did not even know that

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they were related to this person. Wow. Yeah,

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cousins of cousins, somebody, somebody. That's

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how they find, they get rid of the root of entire

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this clan. When did this all start? When Kim

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Il -sung came into power, so he was a big Marxist

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and Leninist, and he was a communist. So before

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the Korean War in 1948, that's when he began

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this, in the name of equality, right? Let's take

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everything back from the capitalists. Let's nationalize

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the land, get rid of private property. But he

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made North Korea into very... In equal society,

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dividing people into 50 different classes. 50?

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Yeah. And the way the classes worked, you couldn't

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marry up. Say, like, if you were a higher class

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and a man wanted to marry you, if he was lower

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class, you would then become a lower class as

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well. That's how they prevent the mixing with

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the class. So there's no marrying up. You only

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go down. So no matter what happens, if you are

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at a lower class, you stay there forever. Forever.

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No chance of moving out of that zone. And it's

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not based on merit. It's not based on your performance.

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It's not based on anything other than the way

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you were born. No. This is when I was confused.

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When I went to South Korea, people say, if you

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work hard in South Korea, you are going to get

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rewarded. And that's when I thought, wow, that

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is justice. Because in North Korea, it doesn't

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matter what you do, what you want to do, what

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your dreams are. It's already determined by what

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your ancestors did. But the thing is, how do

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you choose your ancestor? You can never choose

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your parents. And you had no idea that there

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was any other way to live when you're growing

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up like this? Because I never seen the map of

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the world. I didn't even know like the Americans,

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how they looked like. Because we don't have internet,

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first of all. We have only one channel that government,

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you know, controls every single contents. We

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don't even have any, we don't even have a cookbook.

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That's the thing. As a Korean, I don't even know

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what cookbook is. I mean, first of all, we don't

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have ingredients. Like, how do you find half

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pounds of pork, scallion, blah, blah, right?

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So cookbook is, like, pointless. And not only

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that, there's no fashion because, I mean, we

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don't have freedom to what we wear. So even when

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I heard the job called modeling, I was like,

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what is that? So everything that I learned here

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is, like, all new concept to me as a North Korean.

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So when you would eat, where would you get your

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food from? So the land is government, right?

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The house, there's no private property. But those

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farmers working in the collective farm, they

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smuggle it out and set it in the black market

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secretly. So those food, if we have money, we

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go to black market, buy corn, starch, those things.

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But mostly we just go to mountain. to pick up

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plants, flowers, and grasshoppers is the biggest

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protein source for North Koreans. But the government

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doesn't provide any food for the people? I heard

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they did in the 60s, 70s. But I was born in 1993

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in October, and that is right after the Soviet

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Union collapsed. So until then, the Soviet Union

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was subsidizing North Korea's economy heavily,

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and China did the same. But when they collapsed,

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they stopped helping the North Korean regime.

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So the regime policy was if we, as long as keep

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the 10 % alive who are in the capital, our rule

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is successful. So they were not going to do anything

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until 90 % of population dies. Wow. It's still

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there, same rule they have. Until the 90 % dies

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out, as long as we keep the 10 % alive, we are

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not going to do anything, intervene the starvation.

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So there's no effort whatsoever to get food to

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the people. It's not like effort. They're actually

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actively preventing people to get resources.

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Not even last time, the Biden was calling Kim

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Jong -un, can we give you a vaccine? And Kim

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Jong -un said no. South Korea was calling North

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Korea last year. There's a big flood. Can we

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give you at least some medicine? And Kim Jong

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-un said no. We don't want any medicine. Because

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they don't want any aid from the West? They want

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to keep people as weak as possible. Exactly.

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They want us. Today I was on the way here thinking

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getting up in North Korea, the child was challenging

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because every day you get dizzy from the starvation.

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You get like hear noise every single morning

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when you wake up. It takes like 30 minutes to

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gather your thoughts to able to walk straight

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because everybody's in that mode of starvation.

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Yeah, so as you can see me, I'm like very small.

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I eat a lot. I'm like, say, 80 pounds. But when

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I was escaping, I don't even know how little

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I was. And North Korean men above 4, 10 feet

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high, they have to go to military. Women is mandatory.

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Men have to serve in the military 13 years mandatory,

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and women is 10 years. And most men are very

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small because of malnutrition? Yeah, 4 '10".

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4 '10". Yeah. Wow. And so they just allow people

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to forage for themselves. That's the idea. Like,

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find your own food. Yes. Are you allowed to have

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a garden? Can you grow vegetables? Can you have

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animals? Well, one of the executions that my

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mom saw was a young man was eating beef, a cow.

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because he killed a collective farm cow and he

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got executed for that. Everything is owned by

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the state. In North Korea, you don't even own

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yourself, right? So I remember going to South

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Korea, I got a gift one day, and it was a planner.

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So what you do, what you're trying to do is a

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notebook. And in North Korea, you don't plan

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your day. You don't get to plan what you do with

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your life. A week before or a day before there's

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announcement from the government. How you're

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going to spend your day. What to eat, where to

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go to work, what to do, when to go to sleep.

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Everything is determined by your own state. So

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this guy was executed because he killed one of

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the state's cows. And you're not allowed to have

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your own animals. You can't have like chickens

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or something along those lines. They might hide

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it, but last year Kim Jong -un confiscated an

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entire dog from the population. All the dogs?

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Yeah. That was because of COVID -19, right? No.

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No? It wasn't? Because he said it was a corrupt

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Western sentiment where we have pets. So he ordered

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to kill the entire dogs for the meat. So get

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rid of dogs. Because even he just didn't like

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that it looks like Western having a dog, having

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a friendly relationship with animals. So everyone's

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dog in all of North Korea was confiscated and

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killed. Yeah. And what did they do with the dogs?

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I don't know what the regime leaders did. Wow.

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Yeah. So do they provide you with any food? No.

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No. So you have to find food on your own and

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most of the food is wild food, like grasshoppers

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and flowers that are edible. Yeah. So this is

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why the most bizarre thing is that regime initially

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said, oh, give us your land, give us your freedom.

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We are going to provide free health insurance,

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right? For education, free housing, free of everything.

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You don't have to worry about anything. The state

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is going to be taking care of everything. But

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after Soviet Union collapsed, North Korea came

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idea like this idea is called self -reliance.

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So you relying on yourself. But you can't farm.

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No, you don't have land. How do you farm? You

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don't have freedom. There's no free market. My

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father was sent to prison camp because he sold

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metals. Metals, right. Initially he sold rice,

00:14:27.750 --> 00:14:31.509
dried fish, clocks. And trading is illegal. It's

00:14:31.509 --> 00:14:34.850
not like he was selling weapons or drugs. Trading

00:14:34.850 --> 00:14:39.570
is illegal. So how do you be self -reliant? Yeah.

00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:45.360
So the whole idea is just to keep everybody weak.

00:14:45.580 --> 00:14:50.820
Yeah. It is so strange to someone who has been

00:14:50.820 --> 00:14:54.019
in America their whole life, like me, to even

00:14:54.019 --> 00:14:58.080
imagine that the same time I'm living here, one

00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:00.879
of the big problems in America is that people

00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:04.419
eat too much. I heard that. Isn't that crazy?

00:15:04.700 --> 00:15:07.500
I was shocked. I never understood having too

00:15:07.500 --> 00:15:10.549
much can be a problem. because I just never knew

00:15:10.549 --> 00:15:13.049
that could be a possibility of problem. It's

00:15:13.049 --> 00:15:15.330
the number one problem here. Exactly how having

00:15:15.330 --> 00:15:17.590
too much is a problem. I don't get it. I think

00:15:17.590 --> 00:15:19.250
the, what is the percentage, Jamie, what is the

00:15:19.250 --> 00:15:20.750
percentage of people in America that are obese?

00:15:21.970 --> 00:15:24.830
I think it's large. I think it's more than 50%.

00:15:24.830 --> 00:15:30.769
I think it's, and it's a huge factor with diseases.

00:15:30.850 --> 00:15:33.230
And I mean, 78 % of the people that are in the

00:15:33.230 --> 00:15:39.220
ICU for COVID are obese. What is it? 43%. So

00:15:39.220 --> 00:15:42.100
almost half of the people in the country are

00:15:42.100 --> 00:15:46.039
obese. Yeah. Meaning they eat far too much food.

00:15:46.179 --> 00:15:51.279
Yeah. And for you, that concept must be insane.

00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:55.879
You're in the upside down world. Right? That's

00:15:55.879 --> 00:16:00.319
the thing. It's like a different planet. The

00:16:00.319 --> 00:16:02.980
common law that I knew in North Korea doesn't

00:16:02.980 --> 00:16:06.299
apply here anymore. And it is just so confusing

00:16:06.299 --> 00:16:10.259
to me how hard it is not to eat. It's hard when

00:16:10.259 --> 00:16:12.759
you don't have food. You cannot find it. And

00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:16.039
to me, I don't know why that is so challenging.

00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:18.159
Can you do me a favor and just push the microphone

00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:20.179
forward? Yeah, like this. Yeah, so it's right

00:16:20.179 --> 00:16:22.779
in front of you. There you go. So, yeah, it must

00:16:22.779 --> 00:16:26.159
be... Yeah, like another planet. The idea of

00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:29.440
having too much food. Yeah, and that's the source

00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:32.620
of, I mean, they're complaining about it. So

00:16:32.620 --> 00:16:35.940
I'm like, even that is a reason for complaint.

00:16:36.519 --> 00:16:39.419
That's something unbelievable. I just don't get

00:16:39.419 --> 00:16:42.500
it. It's so easy if you have too much, you don't

00:16:42.500 --> 00:16:44.139
eat it. You just don't put it in your mouth,

00:16:44.279 --> 00:16:48.759
right? No one is forcing you to eat a lot. Yeah,

00:16:48.779 --> 00:16:51.980
but food is addictive. And people like to comfort

00:16:51.980 --> 00:16:54.779
themselves with food. When it's everywhere. And

00:16:54.779 --> 00:16:59.419
it's also, it's a strange problem, right? The

00:16:59.419 --> 00:17:02.179
problem of excess. It's a strange problem. Like

00:17:02.179 --> 00:17:05.980
you have too much. But this is, I mean, humanity,

00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:08.849
all our humanity, we've been starving. Yeah.

00:17:08.849 --> 00:17:11.410
It's the very first time humanity is having this

00:17:11.410 --> 00:17:14.170
much access, and I have some compassion for them.

00:17:14.210 --> 00:17:17.250
But, you know, a lot of problems, like, I met

00:17:17.250 --> 00:17:19.410
American friends in New York. I went to school

00:17:19.410 --> 00:17:22.710
there. And, like, my friends complained. I couldn't

00:17:22.710 --> 00:17:24.990
sympathize in the beginning. Right. I literally,

00:17:25.190 --> 00:17:27.069
because their problem is, like, some guy, they

00:17:27.069 --> 00:17:28.809
went on a date, and, like, don't call them back.

00:17:29.089 --> 00:17:31.789
And they call me and complain, like, you know,

00:17:31.829 --> 00:17:34.109
like, there's people actually problems like life

00:17:34.109 --> 00:17:37.569
and death. Yes. This is not a problem, but. Well,

00:17:37.589 --> 00:17:39.549
it's an issue of perspective, right? Like your

00:17:39.549 --> 00:17:44.289
life, you've seen horrific things. Whereas so

00:17:44.289 --> 00:17:47.369
many people, the worst thing that's ever happened

00:17:47.369 --> 00:17:49.190
to them is someone broke up with them. Yeah.

00:17:49.329 --> 00:17:53.710
Yeah. When you were talking about going to the

00:17:53.710 --> 00:17:58.269
doctor when you were a child and that this is

00:17:58.269 --> 00:18:00.890
a very disturbing story, but I want you to try

00:18:00.890 --> 00:18:04.910
to explain it to people how people were dying

00:18:04.910 --> 00:18:10.170
in these hospitals. And rats would eat the eyeballs

00:18:10.170 --> 00:18:12.470
of the people who were dying. And children who

00:18:12.470 --> 00:18:15.589
were starving would eat the rats. And then the

00:18:15.589 --> 00:18:17.269
children would die and the rats would eat the

00:18:17.269 --> 00:18:22.369
children. Explain what this was like. How did

00:18:22.369 --> 00:18:25.769
you see this? Well, I mean, seeing that the bodies

00:18:25.769 --> 00:18:28.430
on the streets, like everyday thing, it was numb.

00:18:28.769 --> 00:18:31.009
Where were the bodies? Like just laying around

00:18:31.009 --> 00:18:33.569
on the streets? So they are floating in the rivers.

00:18:33.930 --> 00:18:37.150
And then they also... Train stations somehow

00:18:37.150 --> 00:18:39.789
had a lot of dead bodies because North Korea

00:18:39.789 --> 00:18:42.549
is very cold. And there's a train waiting area.

00:18:42.750 --> 00:18:45.769
And North Korea has one train go to one distance

00:18:45.769 --> 00:18:49.369
like once a month. And like here it would take

00:18:49.369 --> 00:18:51.789
like one hour to go to the other place. In North

00:18:51.789 --> 00:18:53.690
Korea it would take a month at least to go because

00:18:53.690 --> 00:18:56.029
there's no electricity. And sometimes people

00:18:56.029 --> 00:18:58.569
have to push the train. They have to push the

00:18:58.569 --> 00:19:01.869
train. Yeah. Yeah. Traveling in North Korea is

00:19:01.869 --> 00:19:04.269
an unbelievably difficult thing within North

00:19:04.269 --> 00:19:09.259
Korea. So, I mean, anyway, so in train stations,

00:19:09.380 --> 00:19:12.460
that's when people die mostly. And in North Korea,

00:19:12.579 --> 00:19:14.640
the hardest thing as a child for me is that when

00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:17.720
my mom goes away to find food. Like, we don't

00:19:17.720 --> 00:19:21.339
have phones. We don't have letters. If I say

00:19:21.339 --> 00:19:23.900
goodbye to her, I don't know when I'm going to

00:19:23.900 --> 00:19:25.940
see her again or if I'm ever going to see her

00:19:25.940 --> 00:19:29.960
again. Because she could have cared and, like,

00:19:29.960 --> 00:19:32.759
raped and starved. You just never know how to

00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:36.079
find people. So in the you know in the morning

00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:38.240
when you go like walking the train station they've

00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:40.960
just put the piles of dead bodies and they're

00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:43.380
all like Become rigid, right? They're almost

00:19:43.380 --> 00:19:47.519
like the like wood piled on them and taking away

00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:50.420
and one but the thing is for me I didn't even

00:19:50.420 --> 00:19:52.839
know the word compassion like nobody told me

00:19:52.839 --> 00:19:55.759
you have to feel bad for it because for me it's

00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:58.039
like Like fish in the water don't notice the

00:19:58.039 --> 00:20:01.220
water right like that something Every day I saw

00:20:01.220 --> 00:20:04.619
as a child. So you never went days where you

00:20:04.619 --> 00:20:06.619
didn't see. This is a normal thing to see dead

00:20:06.619 --> 00:20:09.920
bodies. It was every day as normal as breathing

00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:14.420
the air right now. And one thing that I still

00:20:14.420 --> 00:20:18.440
remember is my sister and I was walking by the

00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:20.519
well. Like in North Korea, we don't have a sewage.

00:20:20.579 --> 00:20:22.819
We don't have running water, obviously. We have

00:20:22.819 --> 00:20:25.059
to go to a well or river to bring the drinking

00:20:25.059 --> 00:20:28.640
water. And there's a young teenage boy, I think,

00:20:28.660 --> 00:20:32.450
lying down. And his intestines coming out of

00:20:32.450 --> 00:20:35.589
his back. When you're really malnourished, that

00:20:35.589 --> 00:20:38.369
thing all opens up. You got zero, zero fats.

00:20:38.509 --> 00:20:44.130
Every hole all opens. And you see dogs looking

00:20:44.130 --> 00:20:47.410
at his organs coming out. And he was just somehow

00:20:47.410 --> 00:20:50.289
conscious begging for food at the time. He was

00:20:50.289 --> 00:20:52.150
begging for food while his organs were hanging

00:20:52.150 --> 00:20:55.230
out of his body. Yeah. And I don't know why he

00:20:55.230 --> 00:20:59.539
was like pants were off. And I felt nothing.

00:20:59.559 --> 00:21:03.460
That still haunts me to this day. I don't know

00:21:03.460 --> 00:21:07.619
how I felt nothing at that point. And that just

00:21:07.619 --> 00:21:11.019
looked horrible. Because of the fact that he's

00:21:11.019 --> 00:21:14.619
alive and so many flies flying by on his organs

00:21:14.619 --> 00:21:17.819
and how he's somehow consciously begging for

00:21:17.819 --> 00:21:22.519
food. And I didn't feel anything. You felt no

00:21:22.519 --> 00:21:27.670
compassion? No. It was just normal? Yeah. Yeah,

00:21:27.670 --> 00:21:30.450
so that was, like, daily life thing. And then

00:21:30.450 --> 00:21:33.809
in the hospital, when I was 13 years old, my

00:21:33.809 --> 00:21:36.109
parents took me to hospital because I was a bad

00:21:36.109 --> 00:21:38.650
stomachache. And then we don't have, like, x

00:21:38.650 --> 00:21:40.910
-ray machines. We don't have MRI. None of that.

00:21:40.970 --> 00:21:44.490
Just doctor wraps your belly. And then he says,

00:21:44.630 --> 00:21:46.829
oh, we need to operate on her. I think her, like,

00:21:46.849 --> 00:21:50.190
appendix was bursting or something. So that afternoon,

00:21:50.369 --> 00:21:54.670
they cut me open without any anesthesia. But

00:21:54.670 --> 00:21:57.349
it's a normal thing. People in North Korea. operation

00:21:57.349 --> 00:22:00.630
without anesthesia but the chances of you going

00:22:00.630 --> 00:22:03.049
to surgery is a lot higher for you getting infected

00:22:03.049 --> 00:22:06.549
because we don't have penicillin the nurse is

00:22:06.549 --> 00:22:10.230
using a one meter to inject every single patient

00:22:10.230 --> 00:22:13.210
so who do you know what the other person has

00:22:13.210 --> 00:22:16.009
you get from actually more sick by being in the

00:22:16.009 --> 00:22:20.049
hospital right And this is where we don't, of

00:22:20.049 --> 00:22:21.849
course, have an indoor bathroom for the patient.

00:22:21.930 --> 00:22:24.549
We have to go outside. And in between there,

00:22:24.630 --> 00:22:28.690
there's piles of dead human bodies. And that's

00:22:28.690 --> 00:22:34.150
when I was seeing somehow rats eating human eyes

00:22:34.150 --> 00:22:36.210
first for some reason. Because they're probably

00:22:36.210 --> 00:22:40.910
soft and doesn't eat. These women, I don't know,

00:22:40.970 --> 00:22:44.690
my age probably, show hair wearing these flower

00:22:44.690 --> 00:22:48.069
pants. And when they're dead, their mouth is

00:22:48.069 --> 00:22:52.170
somehow open. And their eyes are hollow. And

00:22:52.170 --> 00:22:55.289
you see children looking at the rats and laughing

00:22:55.289 --> 00:22:58.210
and chasing them. And adults telling them, don't

00:22:58.210 --> 00:22:59.789
eat those, you're going to get sick from it.

00:22:59.950 --> 00:23:02.230
But of course kids don't care. Even finding a

00:23:02.230 --> 00:23:05.630
rat is delicacy. Because even finding a snake

00:23:05.630 --> 00:23:10.710
is a big price. You don't find those often. So

00:23:10.710 --> 00:23:12.470
they were finding the rats and then just trying

00:23:12.470 --> 00:23:14.549
to eat them? Yeah. Were they eating them raw?

00:23:15.650 --> 00:23:18.670
Sometimes if you find the skin you do, but they

00:23:18.670 --> 00:23:22.390
do find some like fire and roast them. So they

00:23:22.390 --> 00:23:24.990
were excited to find a rat to eat? Yeah. So they

00:23:24.990 --> 00:23:26.690
were catching them with their hands? Yeah, of

00:23:26.690 --> 00:23:28.890
course they would catch them with their hands.

00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:32.799
And these piles of human bodies, like, she was

00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:35.200
on top. That's why I was able to see her wearing

00:23:35.200 --> 00:23:38.640
these flower pants. And then, like, her eyes

00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:41.880
were so hollow. It's like, we need to look at

00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:44.160
the human body like nothing is left. I think

00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:47.079
that's what, it's not like just death itself.

00:23:47.319 --> 00:23:50.900
It's just like how it becomes nothing. So empty

00:23:50.900 --> 00:23:54.180
inside. She does not know the shame or pain.

00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:57.569
She was lying there like that. And you see children

00:23:57.569 --> 00:24:00.009
just chasing them and laughing and try to catch

00:24:00.009 --> 00:24:02.650
the rats. And the children didn't feel anything

00:24:02.650 --> 00:24:05.569
being around the dead bodies. Just normal. It's

00:24:05.569 --> 00:24:08.589
our daily normal thing. Seeing a death is like

00:24:08.589 --> 00:24:11.829
our daily life. And they would eat the rats and

00:24:11.829 --> 00:24:13.430
then they would get sick and some of them would

00:24:13.430 --> 00:24:16.789
die. Yeah. A lot of them die. And then the rats

00:24:16.789 --> 00:24:19.049
would eat them. Yeah. It's like the cycle we

00:24:19.049 --> 00:24:21.769
talk about. It's like that's a spring is for

00:24:21.769 --> 00:24:24.319
nurse because it's a season of death. And so

00:24:24.319 --> 00:24:26.039
the diseases that they would get from the rats,

00:24:26.200 --> 00:24:27.940
they were willing to risk those diseases just

00:24:27.940 --> 00:24:31.119
because of hunger. Because when you ask, there's

00:24:31.119 --> 00:24:35.339
a North Korean proverb. There is no wish for

00:24:35.339 --> 00:24:38.500
the person who died after their stomach is full.

00:24:39.319 --> 00:24:42.400
So even in the middle of the earthquake, the

00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:44.940
North Koreans did not try to run. So my mom was

00:24:44.940 --> 00:24:47.240
talking about the day when she was in the university.

00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:50.349
There's an earthquake happening. And do you know

00:24:50.349 --> 00:24:51.910
what these students are doing? It's not running

00:24:51.910 --> 00:24:54.390
out of the building and trying to survive. They

00:24:54.390 --> 00:24:56.690
go to the kitchen. So before they die, they eat

00:24:56.690 --> 00:25:01.289
at least so they can die. So if you have that

00:25:01.289 --> 00:25:03.809
promise of eating one meal, they're going to

00:25:03.809 --> 00:25:07.509
risk everything for that. So it's just an entire

00:25:07.509 --> 00:25:10.150
country in a perpetual state of starvation. Yeah.

00:25:11.009 --> 00:25:13.430
I remember playing this game with my sister.

00:25:13.509 --> 00:25:16.109
As a young girl, I never ate until I felt full.

00:25:17.169 --> 00:25:20.230
So I would compare myself. I tell her, like,

00:25:20.230 --> 00:25:22.349
I can eat 100 bread. And she's like, I can eat

00:25:22.349 --> 00:25:25.450
the mountains of bread. I can eat, like, 10 ,000

00:25:25.450 --> 00:25:27.630
more than what you just said. Because I don't

00:25:27.630 --> 00:25:30.769
know the limits of my stomach. I never tested

00:25:30.769 --> 00:25:33.890
it. So you always were hungry. Always hungry.

00:25:34.049 --> 00:25:41.809
Never felt full. So you escaped. So your father

00:25:41.809 --> 00:25:46.089
was arrested for... trading in metals, right?

00:25:46.210 --> 00:25:51.089
And he was just trying to find resources, trying

00:25:51.089 --> 00:25:53.890
to get money for the black market for food and

00:25:53.890 --> 00:25:55.430
things like that. Is that what it was? To get

00:25:55.430 --> 00:25:58.789
us alive. He had to, because regime does not

00:25:58.789 --> 00:26:02.170
provide food for the people. So they had to break

00:26:02.170 --> 00:26:04.829
the law, which is trading to survive. Without

00:26:04.829 --> 00:26:08.609
trading, how do we even survive? So he was trading

00:26:08.609 --> 00:26:12.549
these metals and he got caught and that's how

00:26:12.549 --> 00:26:14.950
he's in the prison camp. And how long was he

00:26:14.950 --> 00:26:17.910
in prison for? Several years, but he was sentenced

00:26:17.910 --> 00:26:21.549
to more than 10 years. So I think he was totally

00:26:21.549 --> 00:26:24.970
in prison 34 years. But he got out for sick leave,

00:26:25.109 --> 00:26:28.710
which is had to go back once he got better. But

00:26:28.710 --> 00:26:31.009
of course, in North Korea, that's like who cares

00:26:31.009 --> 00:26:34.849
if you die? He was a very smart guy. So he tricked

00:26:34.849 --> 00:26:37.670
the guard saying, if you get me out for the sick

00:26:37.670 --> 00:26:40.769
leave, I'm going to get you money. Because North

00:26:40.769 --> 00:26:43.190
Korea is the most corrupt country that you can

00:26:43.190 --> 00:26:46.210
find right now in today's world. So corrupt.

00:26:46.690 --> 00:26:49.730
So he tricked the guard, told him that he'd get

00:26:49.730 --> 00:26:52.009
him some money. And so he was in, for how many

00:26:52.009 --> 00:26:53.990
years? You said four years? Three, four years.

00:26:54.170 --> 00:26:58.690
Yeah. And what was it like when he got out? I

00:26:58.690 --> 00:27:01.210
didn't recognize him when he came back to me.

00:27:01.269 --> 00:27:05.430
I did not know that was my father. Even his voice

00:27:05.430 --> 00:27:11.569
changed. When I call North Korea, I do have people

00:27:11.569 --> 00:27:16.410
on the ground. I get information. Their voice

00:27:16.410 --> 00:27:20.470
is different. It's like their voice is so oppressed.

00:27:20.869 --> 00:27:23.910
You can tell this is North Korean speaking. You

00:27:23.910 --> 00:27:26.190
can tell just by their voice? Yeah. That's the

00:27:26.190 --> 00:27:28.690
thing. When some Chinese, like we have brokers

00:27:28.690 --> 00:27:32.460
try to trick us, by voice we can tell. If you're

00:27:32.460 --> 00:27:35.480
Chinese, like Korean ethnic Chinese living in

00:27:35.480 --> 00:27:37.759
China trying to trick us, or actually North Koreans

00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:41.500
speaking to us. So you can actually hear the

00:27:41.500 --> 00:27:44.220
oppression in their voice? Yeah, you can. What

00:27:44.220 --> 00:27:49.859
does it sound like? It's a complete fear. Like,

00:27:49.859 --> 00:27:53.740
terrified to the point they don't even know they're

00:27:53.740 --> 00:27:57.839
terrified. They're like, I don't think even a

00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:21.500
bug would be that scared. And so he does get

00:28:21.500 --> 00:28:23.720
out, and they never put him back in jail again?

00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:29.940
I got him out, so he had to go back. He had to

00:28:29.940 --> 00:28:37.660
go back to jail, but he died in China. So you

00:28:37.660 --> 00:28:42.019
were 13 when you and your family, was it you

00:28:42.019 --> 00:28:44.920
and your mother that escaped? Yeah. How did you

00:28:44.920 --> 00:28:49.059
get out? that hospital right initially my sister

00:28:49.059 --> 00:28:51.599
and i was going to escape but when north koreans

00:28:51.599 --> 00:28:54.200
say when you are escaping of course we don't

00:28:54.200 --> 00:28:56.680
have phones we don't have a map we don't know

00:28:56.680 --> 00:28:59.740
what's the outside world look like right luckily

00:28:59.740 --> 00:29:02.440
i was living in this border town of north korea

00:29:02.440 --> 00:29:05.339
by then so at night do you know if you see the

00:29:05.339 --> 00:29:08.000
satellite photo of north korea it is literally

00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:10.819
the darkest place on earth yes we don't have

00:29:10.819 --> 00:29:13.700
electricity so i was seeing these lights coming

00:29:13.700 --> 00:29:17.460
from china so we I thought, like, if I go where

00:29:17.460 --> 00:29:19.940
the lights were, we would be finding some bowl

00:29:19.940 --> 00:29:24.799
of rice. So at 16, my sister left with her friend,

00:29:24.900 --> 00:29:27.940
and she left me a note while I was in the hospital

00:29:27.940 --> 00:29:31.960
and got, like, removing my appendix. And then

00:29:31.960 --> 00:29:33.799
as soon as I got out of the hospital, I found

00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:37.299
a note. And initially, my mom and I went to look

00:29:37.299 --> 00:29:39.859
for sister where she went. But when we found

00:29:39.859 --> 00:29:43.099
the lady, she told me that she could help me

00:29:43.099 --> 00:29:46.480
to go to China that day. And so this was you

00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:48.440
and your mother, and you were 13 years old. Yeah.

00:29:48.740 --> 00:29:51.980
So how did you get across, and what was that

00:29:51.980 --> 00:29:57.359
experience like? So I told my mom, like, come

00:29:57.359 --> 00:30:00.700
with me to China. And my mom was like, you know,

00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:04.299
my father was home. He was waiting. But the thing

00:30:04.299 --> 00:30:07.059
is, The tragic thing for North Koreans is we

00:30:07.059 --> 00:30:09.759
cannot even say goodbye to our loved ones. So

00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:12.740
if we got caught on the journey, and if my father

00:30:12.740 --> 00:30:15.180
knew that we were escaping, he's going to be

00:30:15.180 --> 00:30:18.779
punished so much. So it's better off that he

00:30:18.779 --> 00:30:21.440
does not know that we are escaping for his own

00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:23.740
safety. Because they're going to torture you

00:30:23.740 --> 00:30:25.660
to the point that you're going to say anything.

00:30:26.059 --> 00:30:28.940
Because they do this all subconscious torture

00:30:28.940 --> 00:30:33.680
that they make you not sleep. in a single room

00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:37.279
has like no air, much air. If you put there for

00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:40.880
40 days alone, you go crazy. You say whatever

00:30:40.880 --> 00:30:44.220
they ask you. So if he actually knew that we

00:30:44.220 --> 00:30:46.380
were escaping, it wouldn't good for him. He would

00:30:46.380 --> 00:30:49.420
be dead. So I told him, I'm like, you cannot

00:30:49.420 --> 00:30:53.079
tell father that we are escaping. So that day

00:30:53.079 --> 00:30:57.140
we climbed up this several mountains and then

00:30:57.140 --> 00:31:00.339
we went to the river side. But she had a connection

00:31:00.339 --> 00:31:02.900
with the guards. Why did you not bring him with

00:31:02.900 --> 00:31:06.440
you? Because he's a man and he was sick. And

00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:10.039
somehow she said only women can go. Only women

00:31:10.039 --> 00:31:12.680
can go. I did not know why she meant by that.

00:31:13.160 --> 00:31:15.220
She's like, you should just go with your mom.

00:31:15.380 --> 00:31:17.299
And don't even tell those people that's your

00:31:17.299 --> 00:31:20.420
mom. She said like, you are like 18 or something.

00:31:20.680 --> 00:31:23.259
And my mom was something 30. So she told me that

00:31:23.259 --> 00:31:27.440
our age was different. So this would somehow

00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:28.980
or another help you when you were going across?

00:31:29.420 --> 00:31:32.890
Yeah. How would that help you? I don't know.

00:31:33.029 --> 00:31:35.509
Or she told me, well, this is going to be helpful.

00:31:36.269 --> 00:31:41.869
Well, part of the issue is in China, there's

00:31:41.869 --> 00:31:44.690
a disproportionate number of men in comparison

00:31:44.690 --> 00:31:49.789
to women. And so they want as many women to come

00:31:49.789 --> 00:31:55.069
across that are of legal age, like women that

00:31:55.069 --> 00:31:58.670
can be married, right? Is that the idea behind

00:31:58.670 --> 00:32:03.710
it? It's a smuggling. So you got it right. Because

00:32:03.710 --> 00:32:07.269
of one child policy, a lot of girls got aborted

00:32:07.269 --> 00:32:10.930
in China. So they kept boys. So there's many,

00:32:11.029 --> 00:32:14.170
many men that have no chance of ever finding

00:32:14.170 --> 00:32:16.029
a woman because there are no women. Yeah, over

00:32:16.029 --> 00:32:18.950
30 million men in the rural areas cannot find

00:32:18.950 --> 00:32:23.349
wives. 30 million? Over 30 million. It's number

00:32:23.349 --> 00:32:27.509
going to keep going up right now. That's a big

00:32:27.509 --> 00:32:29.769
problem for Chinese regime. But the thing is,

00:32:29.849 --> 00:32:32.349
even that, they don't allow North Korean women

00:32:32.349 --> 00:32:36.269
to stay there. They catch us, and they send us

00:32:36.269 --> 00:32:39.470
back to North Korea. Last month, China repatriated

00:32:39.470 --> 00:32:41.930
50 North Korean defectors back to North Korea.

00:32:43.029 --> 00:32:45.690
It's sending them our suits. Literally, they

00:32:45.690 --> 00:32:48.349
are sending them to death camp. But the Chinese

00:32:48.349 --> 00:32:50.789
regime still do catch us and send us back because

00:32:50.789 --> 00:32:53.809
they think we are posing a threat to the regime,

00:32:53.930 --> 00:32:56.960
and they don't want the regime to collapse. So

00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:59.500
they are catching all the defectors. But the

00:32:59.500 --> 00:33:01.680
human traffickers seize the opportunity here

00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:04.180
because we are so vulnerable, right? We are running

00:33:04.180 --> 00:33:07.500
away from Chinese authority. So even they rape

00:33:07.500 --> 00:33:10.240
us and kill us, the last place that we are going

00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:13.460
to go is going to police and then report on them.

00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:17.519
Why do they think that women coming over from

00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:19.819
North Korea are going to somehow or another collapse

00:33:19.819 --> 00:33:23.299
the empire? Because that's what Kim Jong -un

00:33:23.299 --> 00:33:25.400
believes. He thinks they're going to collapse

00:33:25.400 --> 00:33:29.339
through the defectors. So after Kim Jong -un

00:33:29.339 --> 00:33:32.900
came into power, he literally, the country cannot

00:33:32.900 --> 00:33:35.940
afford the electricity, probably electrify the

00:33:35.940 --> 00:33:39.779
entire border. Not only that, putting the machine

00:33:39.779 --> 00:33:41.880
guns with the guards, have a shoot -to -kill

00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:43.920
order. Whoever crosses, they don't even bother

00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:46.039
to ask you to stop. They shoot you right there.

00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:50.869
And not only that, he buried the landmines. On

00:33:50.869 --> 00:33:54.509
top of that. So there's electric fence and then

00:33:54.509 --> 00:33:56.490
there's guards shooting to kill and then past

00:33:56.490 --> 00:33:59.509
that there's landmines. Yeah. Entire country

00:33:59.509 --> 00:34:02.690
became a concentration camp. Entire country.

00:34:03.309 --> 00:34:05.289
When did they start putting the landmines in?

00:34:05.490 --> 00:34:07.809
A few years ago. So this is after you had already

00:34:07.809 --> 00:34:10.550
escaped. Yeah. Now there's no, you don't see

00:34:10.550 --> 00:34:12.190
North Korean defectors escaping from North Korea

00:34:12.190 --> 00:34:15.489
anymore. It's impossible to escape at this point.

00:34:16.789 --> 00:34:21.480
One of the more horrific. things that Jordan

00:34:21.480 --> 00:34:24.760
and you discussed was you seeing your mother

00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:29.059
raped and that your mother sacrificed herself

00:34:29.059 --> 00:34:32.920
because they wanted you. Yeah. And this is the

00:34:32.920 --> 00:34:36.739
first time you had ever even seen what sex was.

00:34:37.019 --> 00:34:39.880
So I didn't even know that was sex. I did not

00:34:39.880 --> 00:34:42.079
know even that was rape because we didn't have

00:34:42.079 --> 00:34:44.820
the vocabulary in North Korea. So in North Korea,

00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:47.420
there's no word for stress. There's no word for

00:34:47.420 --> 00:34:49.519
stress. Because how can you be stressed in the

00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:53.059
socialist paradise? So there's no word for trauma.

00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:55.579
There's no word for depression because you cannot

00:34:55.579 --> 00:34:57.539
be simply depressed in a socialist paradise.

00:34:58.619 --> 00:35:01.559
There's no word for liberty. There's no word

00:35:01.559 --> 00:35:05.079
for human rights. There's no word for rape or

00:35:05.079 --> 00:35:09.360
even sex. So I just thought something I was seeing

00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:12.579
was horrible. But later they told me that was

00:35:12.579 --> 00:35:16.000
rape. I did not know that was rape. But you also

00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:19.460
said that you never heard the word love. Yeah,

00:35:19.480 --> 00:35:21.599
no. There's no word for love in North Korea.

00:35:22.019 --> 00:35:24.320
So your mother never told you she loved you.

00:35:24.380 --> 00:35:26.559
You never told your father you love him. Yeah.

00:35:27.039 --> 00:35:29.500
None of that. So in North Korea, there's even

00:35:29.500 --> 00:35:33.320
no word for I. So they don't want people to be

00:35:33.320 --> 00:35:35.179
individualistic, right? That's the worst thing

00:35:35.179 --> 00:35:37.360
you can be. It's all a collective vision. So

00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:40.679
when North Koreans say, I like water, I say,

00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:44.349
we love water. We love kimchi. So that's how,

00:35:44.510 --> 00:35:46.530
when I'm in South Korea, they will keep saying,

00:35:46.610 --> 00:35:48.469
in South Korea, there's difference between we

00:35:48.469 --> 00:35:52.269
and I. So when you say, I like this, say I. And

00:35:52.269 --> 00:35:54.429
then, of course, all the North Koreans keep saying,

00:35:54.550 --> 00:35:57.130
we love this country. And South Koreans get so

00:35:57.130 --> 00:36:00.250
frustrated that we are keep misusing I and we.

00:36:00.989 --> 00:36:04.210
And that's how regime controls your minds through

00:36:04.210 --> 00:36:08.289
language. It is George Orwell's 1984. They create

00:36:08.289 --> 00:36:12.039
double speak. Why language is so important. Because

00:36:12.039 --> 00:36:14.960
it controls your thoughts. So that's how I got

00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:17.679
rid of the romantic love. We don't even know

00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:20.019
possibly another human can love another human.

00:36:20.360 --> 00:36:23.519
Only love that Norse humans know is like written

00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:26.039
from love that when we describe our feeling towards

00:36:26.039 --> 00:36:29.039
the leader. And we don't know that word can be

00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:31.360
used to describe our feelings to another human.

00:36:33.500 --> 00:36:38.139
When Kim Jong -il died and people were crying

00:36:38.139 --> 00:36:40.639
in the streets and people were sent to prison

00:36:40.639 --> 00:36:45.679
for not crying enough. It was the strangest thing

00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:49.760
for us to watch as Americans because it was performative,

00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:53.360
where people were performing. They were not really

00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:57.380
crying. They were wailing in this very theatrical

00:36:57.380 --> 00:37:01.519
way to let everyone know that they were complying.

00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:06.300
Your life is on the line. people watching you.

00:37:06.340 --> 00:37:09.760
If you don't mourn enough, that's the thing.

00:37:09.780 --> 00:37:12.239
If you don't mourn in the most extreme high,

00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:14.400
they're going to send you to prison camp and

00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:18.059
execute you. So we are doing it to survive. Did

00:37:18.059 --> 00:37:21.539
you see anyone who didn't mourn enough? No, I

00:37:21.539 --> 00:37:24.420
mean, it's impossible. How do you not mourn enough?

00:37:25.050 --> 00:37:28.909
How do you not possibly? Your life generation

00:37:28.909 --> 00:37:31.429
is depending on you when you're born. So everyone

00:37:31.429 --> 00:37:33.329
knows this. Of course we all know. And everyone

00:37:33.329 --> 00:37:36.909
knows it's a threat. Even babies know. Even babies

00:37:36.909 --> 00:37:39.170
know. When you're born in North Korea, you know

00:37:39.170 --> 00:37:41.809
what it is. You don't, like, start questioning.

00:37:42.610 --> 00:37:45.190
I mean, the first thing my mom told me as a young

00:37:45.190 --> 00:37:48.170
girl was not even, be careful of strangers. Be

00:37:48.170 --> 00:37:49.889
careful, you know, call, like, none of that.

00:37:49.989 --> 00:37:52.900
She would say, be careful of your tongue. because

00:37:52.900 --> 00:37:54.840
that is the most dangerous weapon you got in

00:37:54.840 --> 00:37:58.239
your body. Don't even whisper, because the birds

00:37:58.239 --> 00:38:01.739
and mice could hear you. So that's the first

00:38:01.739 --> 00:38:03.960
thing you hear from your parents, how dangerous

00:38:03.960 --> 00:38:07.739
what you say is going to be. Did you personally

00:38:07.739 --> 00:38:10.579
see people that you knew get imprisoned because

00:38:10.579 --> 00:38:13.199
of things that they said? They just disappear.

00:38:13.780 --> 00:38:17.360
Like one of my sister's classmates, her mom,

00:38:17.400 --> 00:38:20.239
when they executed. And then because they're

00:38:20.239 --> 00:38:22.900
accusing her to receiving money from the foreign

00:38:22.900 --> 00:38:26.099
CIA or the South Korean intelligence. But a month

00:38:26.099 --> 00:38:29.260
later, they said, oh, it was not a problem. She

00:38:29.260 --> 00:38:32.019
was not a spy. So they brought the family members

00:38:32.019 --> 00:38:34.820
back out of the concentration camp. So they killed

00:38:34.820 --> 00:38:36.960
her for nothing. And they don't even say sorry

00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:39.039
to that. It's like we don't even know that's

00:38:39.039 --> 00:38:41.260
a concept the government can be sorry or they

00:38:41.260 --> 00:38:44.340
can ever make a mistake. So how did they find

00:38:44.340 --> 00:38:46.880
out that she wasn't really a spy? We just don't

00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:49.559
know. Just one day that classmate came out, and

00:38:49.559 --> 00:38:52.739
my sister's classmate came out, and then they

00:38:52.739 --> 00:38:56.539
said her mom was not a spy. So they got out of

00:38:56.539 --> 00:39:00.119
the prison camp. And that's it. There's nothing.

00:39:00.539 --> 00:39:04.380
Nothing. We were none of that. And so this was

00:39:04.380 --> 00:39:07.159
a common thing. Yeah. And you just lived in constant

00:39:07.159 --> 00:39:10.360
fear. This is the thing. We are three people

00:39:10.360 --> 00:39:13.139
sitting here, right? I'm watching you, and Jamie's

00:39:13.139 --> 00:39:15.260
watching me, and you're watching somebody else.

00:39:15.440 --> 00:39:17.400
So even I'm being a nice person, I'm not going

00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:20.659
to report on you. I know Jamie's watching me.

00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:22.840
He's not going to report on me. But even if you

00:39:22.840 --> 00:39:25.059
try to be nice, but he knows he's being watched

00:39:25.059 --> 00:39:28.119
by somebody too. So you're being spied on, and

00:39:28.119 --> 00:39:31.579
you're spying on somebody. So no escape. And

00:39:31.579 --> 00:39:34.739
everybody has to report anything that they find.

00:39:34.860 --> 00:39:36.840
Like if you said something negative about the

00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:39.380
government, I would have to tell on you. Otherwise,

00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:42.280
I would get in trouble. Yeah. And the other person

00:39:42.280 --> 00:39:44.019
don't report on you, that person get in trouble.

00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:47.579
There's no way out of it. That's how they create

00:39:47.579 --> 00:39:51.340
distrust. One thing that shocked me when I came

00:39:51.340 --> 00:39:55.280
to the West, how trust exists. In North Korea,

00:39:55.380 --> 00:39:57.360
there's a saying, don't even trust your own back.

00:39:58.510 --> 00:40:02.510
Because you don't know who is a spy. You don't

00:40:02.510 --> 00:40:07.489
know who is listening, who is watching. And people

00:40:07.489 --> 00:40:10.309
just disappear. Yeah, just disappear. And public

00:40:10.309 --> 00:40:14.090
executions happen in the stadium next to the

00:40:14.090 --> 00:40:16.750
market where most people go. And in North Korea,

00:40:16.769 --> 00:40:19.429
there's no concept of minor, right? There's no

00:40:19.429 --> 00:40:22.530
concept like minors cannot do labor. That's not

00:40:22.530 --> 00:40:25.130
a thing. As a child of seven years old, you go

00:40:25.130 --> 00:40:27.599
to school, you work. You go to work in a dam,

00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:31.219
construction, in the farm. And you are a miner,

00:40:31.380 --> 00:40:33.639
so therefore when there's public execution happens,

00:40:33.980 --> 00:40:35.900
you are on the front line because you are the

00:40:35.900 --> 00:40:39.179
shortest. They line up five, six years old in

00:40:39.179 --> 00:40:42.780
the beginning, and then in the age going, it's

00:40:42.780 --> 00:40:46.119
mandatory to attend. So it's mandatory to attend

00:40:46.119 --> 00:40:49.059
public executions. Yeah. And how do they kill

00:40:49.059 --> 00:40:52.349
the people? After Kim Jong -un got in power,

00:40:52.530 --> 00:40:55.010
he became more brutal how he kills people. He

00:40:55.010 --> 00:41:00.090
used the air like missiles that shoot down the

00:41:00.090 --> 00:41:03.869
airplane, that kind of powerful weapon. So when

00:41:03.869 --> 00:41:07.730
he kills people, they blow up into pieces. Like

00:41:07.730 --> 00:41:10.530
they literally become just... red pieces and

00:41:10.530 --> 00:41:13.170
fireworks. That's how it, that's what I hear

00:41:13.170 --> 00:41:15.809
from now, nowadays executions, but my time was

00:41:15.809 --> 00:41:19.050
more the guard standing and shoot you here, here,

00:41:19.190 --> 00:41:22.510
and three times, nine shots. And then a body

00:41:22.510 --> 00:41:24.829
becomes like a world, world, world. And then

00:41:24.829 --> 00:41:27.090
like, they just put in a luggage and take it

00:41:27.090 --> 00:41:30.090
out. But nowadays I heard they are using way

00:41:30.090 --> 00:41:34.480
more, they are starting hanging too. before my

00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:37.480
time was just execution but kim jong -un said

00:41:37.480 --> 00:41:39.820
even the bullets we don't want to waste on this

00:41:39.820 --> 00:41:43.659
like trash they call us trash and so just hang

00:41:43.659 --> 00:41:46.739
them and like or like stone to death so bring

00:41:46.739 --> 00:41:49.539
the people around the town and hit them with

00:41:49.539 --> 00:41:52.119
the rocks until they die so the people in the

00:41:52.119 --> 00:41:54.940
town would contribute to the execution they would

00:41:54.940 --> 00:41:56.619
they would be the ones throwing the rocks yeah

00:41:56.619 --> 00:41:59.719
otherwise you get punished you have to and what

00:41:59.719 --> 00:42:04.059
are the crimes that you could be sentenced to

00:42:04.059 --> 00:42:09.139
death for? It's as little as, so in North Korea,

00:42:09.219 --> 00:42:12.659
every room has to have a portrait of Kims. And

00:42:12.659 --> 00:42:15.179
the inspector comes out of nowhere in the middle

00:42:15.179 --> 00:42:17.260
of the night and then touch the portraits if

00:42:17.260 --> 00:42:20.199
they see any dust. They say your royalty is not

00:42:20.199 --> 00:42:23.079
high enough. And then you can get executed and

00:42:23.079 --> 00:42:24.739
sent to prison camp, three generations of your

00:42:24.739 --> 00:42:28.820
family. So if the picture is dusty, you get executed.

00:42:29.059 --> 00:42:32.099
Yeah, and if your house get on fire, The first

00:42:32.099 --> 00:42:34.300
thing is not you run with your family or your

00:42:34.300 --> 00:42:37.000
children or parents. You have to protect the

00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:39.119
portraits with your life. Otherwise, the third

00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:42.539
generation gets punished for that. Even murderers

00:42:42.539 --> 00:42:44.480
and rapists in North Korea don't exist. We don't

00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:47.179
even know what rape is. I mean, they have pleasure

00:42:47.179 --> 00:42:50.699
squad, right, every year. They go around the

00:42:50.699 --> 00:42:53.380
country, pick up the virgin girls, bring them

00:42:53.380 --> 00:42:56.260
back to Pyongyang, make them call the satisfactory

00:42:56.260 --> 00:42:59.699
groups, train them to become sex machines. Every

00:42:59.699 --> 00:43:03.000
year they do that. So these officials, now the

00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:04.960
guy who's in the second power in North Korea,

00:43:05.019 --> 00:43:07.840
his name is Chaeryeonghae, he has his own pleasure

00:43:07.840 --> 00:43:10.940
squad, and he takes entire teeth out of these

00:43:10.940 --> 00:43:15.320
girls. So when they kiss him down there, he has

00:43:15.320 --> 00:43:18.659
more pleasure. So these things is not a crime

00:43:18.659 --> 00:43:21.309
in North Korea. Like literally when women walk

00:43:21.309 --> 00:43:24.130
down, if the guys stand you and rape you, you

00:43:24.130 --> 00:43:25.969
cannot go to police. You got raped. It's your

00:43:25.969 --> 00:43:30.949
fault. So this country, I mean, every wives get

00:43:30.949 --> 00:43:33.510
beaten by husband in North Korea. This is not

00:43:33.510 --> 00:43:36.230
a crime. But if there's a newspaper, there's

00:43:36.230 --> 00:43:38.349
a portrait of Kim Jong -un, right? Or Kim Jong

00:43:38.349 --> 00:43:40.329
-il. You didn't see the front page. In the back

00:43:40.329 --> 00:43:43.210
page, you ripped it by mistake. That's how you

00:43:43.210 --> 00:43:47.050
get executed. That is why we call crime in North

00:43:47.050 --> 00:43:59.110
Korea. Wow. Having escaped that and looking back

00:43:59.110 --> 00:44:02.730
on it now and knowing that it exists right now,

00:44:02.869 --> 00:44:06.210
what can be done? What could the rest of the

00:44:06.210 --> 00:44:08.929
world do? I mean, North Korea has nuclear weapons.

00:44:09.849 --> 00:44:13.829
They have a powerful military. What can the rest

00:44:13.829 --> 00:44:15.570
of the world do to stop this from happening?

00:44:15.590 --> 00:44:18.980
Because it seems like... This is horrific. It's

00:44:18.980 --> 00:44:21.780
a form of genocide, and it's happening right

00:44:21.780 --> 00:44:25.800
now. It's a holocaust. In 2014, UN conducted

00:44:25.800 --> 00:44:28.880
this investigation for a year, and the conclusion

00:44:28.880 --> 00:44:32.320
was the only resemblance that we find in our

00:44:32.320 --> 00:44:34.099
history what is happening to North Korean people

00:44:34.099 --> 00:44:38.199
is a holocaust. So holocaust is happening again,

00:44:38.380 --> 00:44:42.000
and of course we are denying it again. When it

00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:43.559
was holocaust, it was happening. A lot of people

00:44:43.559 --> 00:44:46.619
say, how is that possible? It's so hard to believe

00:44:46.619 --> 00:44:50.050
that. And North Korea, using this concentration

00:44:50.050 --> 00:44:52.789
camp, these people do the biology test. They

00:44:52.789 --> 00:44:55.269
put them in the gas chambers. Right now, they

00:44:55.269 --> 00:44:58.170
do that. A biology test? Of course. What's the

00:44:58.170 --> 00:45:01.809
biology test? They test a lot of the weapons,

00:45:01.989 --> 00:45:05.920
biological weapons. So they, you know, keep trying

00:45:05.920 --> 00:45:09.179
to, they are, North Korea spends entire their

00:45:09.179 --> 00:45:13.820
GDP on developing nukes and weaponaries. I mean,

00:45:13.840 --> 00:45:16.280
they are the biggest provider to the Middle East.

00:45:16.440 --> 00:45:18.519
When there's a war, they buy missiles from North

00:45:18.519 --> 00:45:21.760
Koreans. North Korea makes money by selling,

00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:26.400
I mean, the crystal meth and opium. That's how

00:45:26.400 --> 00:45:28.320
Kim Jong -un makes money in hacking, right? He

00:45:28.320 --> 00:45:31.400
steals a lot of Bitcoin and get up banks, ATM

00:45:31.400 --> 00:45:34.239
machines. That's how he makes money because they

00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:37.599
don't export anything other than drugs and weapons

00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:41.380
and hacking and human trafficking. So they experiment

00:45:41.380 --> 00:45:43.659
on their own people to find out if these biological

00:45:43.659 --> 00:45:47.320
weapons work? Yeah. And also they need a lot

00:45:47.320 --> 00:45:49.380
of concentration like prisoners because they

00:45:49.380 --> 00:45:53.559
have to clean the nuclear debris. Because they

00:45:53.559 --> 00:45:58.179
do a lot of tests. So since 2017, North Korea

00:45:58.179 --> 00:46:02.340
conducted almost 30 missile tests. If the one

00:46:02.340 --> 00:46:06.139
test missile caused to feed 25 million the entire

00:46:06.139 --> 00:46:10.420
year. So if he chose to do four, like, less tests,

00:46:10.699 --> 00:46:13.539
nobody had to die in North Korea from starvation.

00:46:14.719 --> 00:46:17.059
And right now, Kim Jong -un recently admits that

00:46:17.059 --> 00:46:19.940
11 million North Koreans are severely malnourished,

00:46:20.059 --> 00:46:23.050
and he's proud to say that. And he's not even

00:46:23.050 --> 00:46:25.530
bothering to hide in the past. Yeah, they are

00:46:25.530 --> 00:46:28.250
starving. And he's fat. Oh, yeah. That's his

00:46:28.250 --> 00:46:38.349
problem, being too fat. Wow. So they're forced

00:46:38.349 --> 00:46:41.449
to clean up nuclear waste from these test sites?

00:46:41.469 --> 00:46:44.409
Yeah. And, of course, they die from radiation.

00:46:44.769 --> 00:46:48.829
They don't last three months. Normal life expectancy

00:46:48.829 --> 00:46:50.730
when you go to a concentration camp is three

00:46:50.730 --> 00:46:53.650
months. Three months. Yeah. So they need a lot

00:46:53.650 --> 00:46:55.750
of those people. And they just use those people

00:46:55.750 --> 00:47:00.110
for fodder. Yeah. How many people, do they know

00:47:00.110 --> 00:47:01.630
how many people are in these concentration camps?

00:47:01.989 --> 00:47:05.190
Nobody knows exactly, but several hundred thousand

00:47:05.190 --> 00:47:09.230
of them. But there's also prison camps, concentration

00:47:09.230 --> 00:47:12.809
camps, prison camps, and labor camps. And some

00:47:12.809 --> 00:47:15.110
people are born into these camps. Yeah, those

00:47:15.110 --> 00:47:17.590
are people in the concentration camps. And they

00:47:17.590 --> 00:47:19.889
don't even get to know the name of Kim Il -sung

00:47:19.889 --> 00:47:24.510
or Kim Jong -un. they're too below the level.

00:47:24.550 --> 00:47:26.210
They don't even bother to tell them who's the

00:47:26.210 --> 00:47:30.110
leader of the country is. And what did someone

00:47:30.110 --> 00:47:33.429
in their family do that would allow them, that

00:47:33.429 --> 00:47:35.150
would make them get put into these concentration

00:47:35.150 --> 00:47:38.440
camps? They find out later their great -great

00:47:38.440 --> 00:47:42.239
-grandfather was working with the Japanese for

00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:44.820
like a week when the Japan was colonizing or

00:47:44.820 --> 00:47:47.159
the Korean was starting. They were talking to

00:47:47.159 --> 00:47:50.579
American soldiers. Or they were, they're like

00:47:50.579 --> 00:47:53.739
cousins of nephews of like, some in -law was

00:47:53.739 --> 00:47:56.440
a Christian. Because North Korea is number one

00:47:56.440 --> 00:47:59.380
Christian persecution country. Because they copy

00:47:59.380 --> 00:48:02.559
the Bible. They said, oh, Kim Il -sung loves

00:48:02.559 --> 00:48:05.199
us so much. He's a god. He gave us his son, Kim

00:48:05.199 --> 00:48:09.159
Jong -il. And he dies, but he's with us all the

00:48:09.159 --> 00:48:12.260
time. That's why they can read my thoughts. He

00:48:12.260 --> 00:48:15.579
knows how much hair I have. So when you become

00:48:15.579 --> 00:48:18.119
a god, you need to explain. You don't need to

00:48:18.119 --> 00:48:22.280
make sense. So they essentially use the story

00:48:22.280 --> 00:48:26.199
of the Bible for Kim Jong -il. Yeah, they copy

00:48:26.199 --> 00:48:29.710
the Bible. Exactly copy the Bible. Wow. That's

00:48:29.710 --> 00:48:31.869
why I believe that Kim Il -sung was reading my

00:48:31.869 --> 00:48:34.789
mind. And if the people believe in the West,

00:48:35.050 --> 00:48:37.650
like Jesus knows what you're thinking, why do

00:48:37.650 --> 00:48:39.309
you think it's surprising that North Koreans

00:48:39.309 --> 00:48:42.090
believe that? So someone's great -grandfather

00:48:42.090 --> 00:48:44.449
speaking to the Japanese would be the reason

00:48:44.449 --> 00:48:47.329
why they would be raised in a concentration camp

00:48:47.329 --> 00:48:49.329
and never even be told the name of the leaders.

00:48:49.469 --> 00:48:52.610
Yeah. And that's happening right now. It's been

00:48:52.610 --> 00:48:57.070
happening for the last almost 80 years. Yeah,

00:48:57.090 --> 00:48:59.469
this has been going on, and as you just asked,

00:48:59.510 --> 00:49:03.289
what can be done? Kim Jong -un cannot last even

00:49:03.289 --> 00:49:08.090
one week without Chinese regime support. The

00:49:08.090 --> 00:49:10.570
only reason the regime exists is because of Chinese

00:49:10.570 --> 00:49:14.329
Communist Party. How do you test missile without

00:49:14.329 --> 00:49:17.829
oil? Kim Jong -un cannot even drive his Benz

00:49:17.829 --> 00:49:22.030
in Pyongyang. China refused to not helping the

00:49:22.030 --> 00:49:24.300
regime. They keep helping Kim Jong -un. Keep

00:49:24.300 --> 00:49:26.139
sending the oil. Even last year, the New York

00:49:26.139 --> 00:49:30.880
Times covered it. The ship full of gas oil going

00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:33.400
to North Korea. So Kim Jong -un could test missiles,

00:49:33.599 --> 00:49:37.679
even amid the pandemic. Why does China support

00:49:37.679 --> 00:49:43.840
North Korea? I really, really, I think one is

00:49:43.840 --> 00:49:47.340
they don't want that democracy come to next door,

00:49:47.440 --> 00:49:50.559
right? That South Korea, Japan, America is all

00:49:50.559 --> 00:49:53.940
right next to North Korea geographically. And

00:49:53.940 --> 00:49:55.539
North Korea is like this almost like a buffer

00:49:55.539 --> 00:49:58.960
zone for them, for this Western movement coming

00:49:58.960 --> 00:50:02.519
into their country. And also they think of North

00:50:02.519 --> 00:50:05.260
Korea more like Tibet or Xinjiang. If they let

00:50:05.260 --> 00:50:08.059
North Korea go, then Xinjiang people are going

00:50:08.059 --> 00:50:10.079
to want to go. Tibetans are going to be independent.

00:50:10.260 --> 00:50:12.719
Hong Kongers want to be independent. So they

00:50:12.719 --> 00:50:15.840
cannot give up any one of them. It's because

00:50:15.840 --> 00:50:19.719
of the stability and symbolic thing for the Chinese

00:50:19.719 --> 00:50:22.159
people within the country wants to be independent.

00:50:23.309 --> 00:50:25.789
So they all want to maintain North Korea forever.

00:50:26.050 --> 00:50:29.210
And Mao said that relationship between China

00:50:29.210 --> 00:50:31.750
and North Korea is like the relationship between

00:50:31.750 --> 00:50:35.190
your lips and the teeth. Without lips, you cannot

00:50:35.190 --> 00:50:37.510
really close your mouth and eat. Without your

00:50:37.510 --> 00:50:40.489
teeth, you cannot chew. So you need each other

00:50:40.489 --> 00:50:44.909
to survive. And that's how Mao's son died in

00:50:44.909 --> 00:50:47.190
Korea, or by defending Communist Party in the

00:50:47.190 --> 00:50:50.920
North. That's how Mao lost his son. That's how

00:50:50.920 --> 00:50:55.000
he believed that they need North Korea. And so

00:50:55.000 --> 00:50:58.780
the Chinese Communist Party today shares the

00:50:58.780 --> 00:51:00.860
sentiment and they're using it strategically.

00:51:01.420 --> 00:51:03.579
Yeah, they run the dictatorship in North Korea.

00:51:03.619 --> 00:51:06.519
They run the whole thing. And that's the thing.

00:51:06.860 --> 00:51:09.619
We have not been solving North Korea because

00:51:09.619 --> 00:51:13.260
we just never named the accountability who is

00:51:13.260 --> 00:51:16.719
responsible for this crisis. That is China. And,

00:51:16.739 --> 00:51:20.039
of course, in America, mainstream, they do not

00:51:20.039 --> 00:51:22.239
want to call out North Korea and China to committing,

00:51:22.400 --> 00:51:25.780
you know, genocide. That's why I've been having

00:51:25.780 --> 00:51:30.320
so many attacks from Marxists, communists, and

00:51:30.320 --> 00:51:33.639
Maoists, and Leninists, all these people. And

00:51:33.639 --> 00:51:36.199
North Korea is almost this last country that

00:51:36.199 --> 00:51:40.239
holds ideology called socialism. So it's a very

00:51:40.239 --> 00:51:45.630
symbolic country. empathizers of communism and

00:51:45.630 --> 00:51:48.409
anti -Western civilization people. They defend

00:51:48.409 --> 00:51:52.530
North Korea like hell. But do they, when they

00:51:52.530 --> 00:51:54.989
speak of it, like the Chinese Communist Party,

00:51:55.090 --> 00:51:56.510
when they speak of North Korea, do they have

00:51:56.510 --> 00:52:01.349
a distorted image that they project of what it's

00:52:01.349 --> 00:52:05.110
like in North Korea? Do they change the narrative?

00:52:05.150 --> 00:52:08.949
Do they have a story of North Korea that's false?

00:52:09.659 --> 00:52:11.860
that makes it seem like North Korea is a nice

00:52:11.860 --> 00:52:14.820
place? No, they know exactly what's going on.

00:52:14.940 --> 00:52:19.019
They know? Even Chinese people know. So there's

00:52:19.019 --> 00:52:21.159
no defending it? No, no. Even Chinese people

00:52:21.159 --> 00:52:24.599
see it. Like when North Koreans get captured,

00:52:24.980 --> 00:52:28.699
Chinese is still better, nice than North Korean

00:52:28.699 --> 00:52:31.280
guards. They like handcuff us, sort of blind

00:52:31.280 --> 00:52:34.920
us. But North Koreans come and put the wire in

00:52:34.920 --> 00:52:38.239
between here. in between your bones. So connecting

00:52:38.239 --> 00:52:40.460
all the prisoners together so they cannot run.

00:52:41.559 --> 00:52:45.219
Like cows. They put a wire, like, through their

00:52:45.219 --> 00:52:48.679
collarbone? Yeah. So they prevent us to escape.

00:52:48.980 --> 00:52:52.599
So while we are in China, that's when the outsiders

00:52:52.599 --> 00:52:54.219
are watching. But imagine what they're going

00:52:54.219 --> 00:52:56.139
to do inside the country when there's no camera.

00:52:56.739 --> 00:52:59.420
So this is what China does to North Koreans.

00:52:59.619 --> 00:53:02.340
No, China catches us and gives us to North Korean

00:53:02.340 --> 00:53:05.519
guards. And they watch it. And they watch them

00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:08.460
do that. And then they even horrify, but of course

00:53:08.460 --> 00:53:11.000
they don't do anything about it. It's like you

00:53:11.000 --> 00:53:13.239
don't have to go that far, but of course North

00:53:13.239 --> 00:53:16.440
Koreans do not accept defection, right? That's

00:53:16.440 --> 00:53:18.639
why we are defectors. We are not refugees. When

00:53:18.639 --> 00:53:22.659
we escape, we defy the ideology. Yes. That's

00:53:22.659 --> 00:53:24.820
why this is North Koreans are not just refugees.

00:53:24.960 --> 00:53:27.480
They are political prisoners. They are political

00:53:27.480 --> 00:53:30.539
refugees. They should be covered by Geneva Convention

00:53:30.539 --> 00:53:33.860
and international law. So China catching a sentence

00:53:33.860 --> 00:53:36.559
back, that is a crime against humanity. They

00:53:36.559 --> 00:53:39.840
are breaking the international law. But no one

00:53:39.840 --> 00:53:42.500
will punish them for that. And nobody going to

00:53:42.500 --> 00:53:46.760
talk about it even here in the West. Why? I mean,

00:53:46.780 --> 00:53:49.280
there's a Michelle Obama, right? Nobel Peace

00:53:49.280 --> 00:53:51.760
Prize giving the girls like captured by ISIS

00:53:51.760 --> 00:53:55.780
or like Taliban, like Malala. Michelle Obama

00:53:55.780 --> 00:53:58.159
stands up for the girls who were captured by

00:53:58.159 --> 00:54:01.739
ISIS and Boko Haram. Who is standing up for North

00:54:01.739 --> 00:54:04.500
Korean girls being captured and raped in China

00:54:04.500 --> 00:54:08.400
right now? There are 300 ,000 North Koreans right

00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:12.139
now when we are speaking in China and are sexual

00:54:12.139 --> 00:54:16.219
slaves. 300 ,000? Yeah. And most of them are

00:54:16.219 --> 00:54:21.400
women and girls. China has incredible power.

00:54:21.659 --> 00:54:28.440
Yeah. And when you see the power that... China

00:54:28.440 --> 00:54:30.920
has and that they're supporting North Korea and

00:54:30.920 --> 00:54:34.440
that there's no pushback from America. What does

00:54:34.440 --> 00:54:36.400
that feel like to you when you see this, knowing

00:54:36.400 --> 00:54:39.039
what you went through? And not only knowing what

00:54:39.039 --> 00:54:40.820
you went through, but the fact that you talk

00:54:40.820 --> 00:54:42.639
about this openly. You talked about it in your

00:54:42.639 --> 00:54:46.719
book that came out in 2015. And you speak about

00:54:46.719 --> 00:54:50.400
it as often as possible. But yet there's not

00:54:50.400 --> 00:54:54.699
a lot of support, especially from political leaders.

00:54:55.019 --> 00:54:59.349
No one is stepping up. to say your story. Yeah.

00:54:59.650 --> 00:55:04.130
It's total hypocrisy. It's, I mean, all these

00:55:04.130 --> 00:55:06.510
people in America talk about how slavery is wrong.

00:55:06.670 --> 00:55:09.250
I agree slavery is the worst thing that we can

00:55:09.250 --> 00:55:12.289
do to another human being. But why some slavery

00:55:12.289 --> 00:55:15.349
matters over some other slavery? Right. Like,

00:55:15.349 --> 00:55:17.469
right. I mean, all these corporations talking

00:55:17.469 --> 00:55:19.889
about how they do not support the bigotry and

00:55:19.889 --> 00:55:22.929
racism and slavery. It's happening right now

00:55:22.929 --> 00:55:25.510
in China and they have business with China. They

00:55:25.510 --> 00:55:27.469
don't say anything about it. No, like this is

00:55:27.469 --> 00:55:31.309
the thing. When Hulu made a movie about dissent,

00:55:31.309 --> 00:55:34.849
about assassins, about Kim Jong Nam's assassination

00:55:34.849 --> 00:55:38.389
three years ago in Malaysia. Remember the Kim

00:55:38.389 --> 00:55:41.659
Jong Un's half brother got. Yes. So they made

00:55:41.659 --> 00:55:43.619
that movie. Hulu was supporting to make that

00:55:43.619 --> 00:55:46.239
movie. He killed his half -brother and someone

00:55:46.239 --> 00:55:48.960
else too, right? And his uncle. His uncle. Yeah.

00:55:49.019 --> 00:55:51.659
So his brother is more shocking because he got

00:55:51.659 --> 00:55:55.039
killed in the international territory. You know,

00:55:55.079 --> 00:55:58.679
like VX nerve, the poison. And they made a movie.

00:55:58.940 --> 00:56:01.679
But when the Hulu was bought by Disney, Disney

00:56:01.679 --> 00:56:05.360
wanted Hulu to drop that movie. So that movie

00:56:05.360 --> 00:56:08.820
couldn't be shown in Hulu. Because it would offend

00:56:08.820 --> 00:56:12.300
China. Yes. Why there is not even one single

00:56:12.300 --> 00:56:14.260
movie coming out of Hollywood about North Korean

00:56:14.260 --> 00:56:16.940
people suffering? They made about Congo genocide.

00:56:17.059 --> 00:56:19.940
They made all about genocide, not about North

00:56:19.940 --> 00:56:23.800
Korea. That is a strange hypocrisy, isn't it?

00:56:23.820 --> 00:56:25.420
Of course it is. And it's about money, right?

00:56:25.519 --> 00:56:27.940
Absolutely. It's all about money. All these people

00:56:27.940 --> 00:56:29.840
talking about justice, what they care about.

00:56:29.900 --> 00:56:34.380
I mean, none of them do in real life. And these

00:56:34.380 --> 00:56:37.280
are not secret stories. It's not. I mean, so

00:56:37.280 --> 00:56:39.519
this is the thing. Oh, don't make it up. Kim

00:56:39.519 --> 00:56:42.760
Jong -un killed his uncle, right? That was on

00:56:42.760 --> 00:56:44.920
the national newspaper. He killed his half -brother.

00:56:45.739 --> 00:56:47.679
And look, do you remember the other one? We are

00:56:47.679 --> 00:56:50.880
the American 21 -year -old student. Yes. Who

00:56:50.880 --> 00:56:54.980
was accused of stealing the banner. He was brain

00:56:54.980 --> 00:56:57.760
dead. By the time he got to America, he was beaten

00:56:57.760 --> 00:56:59.980
to death, right? Yeah, and he was sentenced for

00:56:59.980 --> 00:57:03.079
15 years in the labor camp. for trying to steal

00:57:03.079 --> 00:57:05.880
the banner. But this is a country that did to

00:57:05.880 --> 00:57:09.900
white American mayor, to the most powerful country

00:57:09.900 --> 00:57:12.199
citizen. Imagine what they're going to do to

00:57:12.199 --> 00:57:16.260
their own citizen. You can't even imagine what

00:57:16.260 --> 00:57:18.599
they do to their own citizen. So North Korea,

00:57:18.760 --> 00:57:21.920
this like nationalism is to the highest. So when

00:57:21.920 --> 00:57:24.380
North Korean women go to China, get raped, and

00:57:24.380 --> 00:57:27.400
we get pregnant. When we go back to North Korea,

00:57:27.639 --> 00:57:30.539
the guards kick our belly until baby dies. They

00:57:30.539 --> 00:57:37.280
don't let the baby live. They, yeah, it's just

00:57:37.280 --> 00:57:40.039
unbelievable. This is happening in 21st century

00:57:40.039 --> 00:57:44.880
and still we somehow don't talk about it. Not

00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:46.940
just don't talk about it, but it keeps going

00:57:46.940 --> 00:57:49.679
generation after generation. Yeah. I mean, if

00:57:49.679 --> 00:57:51.539
it's been happening like this for more than 80

00:57:51.539 --> 00:57:54.139
years, what's going to stop it from happening

00:57:54.139 --> 00:57:56.659
for another 80 years? And if people are quiet,

00:57:56.739 --> 00:57:59.320
nothing. It's going to keep going. And this is

00:57:59.320 --> 00:58:03.170
what... To me, as an activist, I'm a dissent.

00:58:03.190 --> 00:58:05.889
I'm fighting against this regime. We know when

00:58:05.889 --> 00:58:08.809
Jamal Khashoggi got killed in Saudi consulate,

00:58:08.989 --> 00:58:11.969
there's no accountability for the dictator, right?

00:58:12.190 --> 00:58:14.909
Saudi prince, he didn't get anything. When Kim

00:58:14.909 --> 00:58:16.730
Jong -un killed his hot brother in Malaysia,

00:58:17.170 --> 00:58:19.949
nothing, there were like, there's no accountability

00:58:19.949 --> 00:58:22.750
that we are asking of these people. So standing

00:58:22.750 --> 00:58:26.030
up fighting, it doesn't incentivize people anymore.

00:58:26.460 --> 00:58:31.719
So you don't see justice being served. And I

00:58:31.719 --> 00:58:34.900
think that is why it is so hard to fight now.

00:58:35.079 --> 00:58:37.900
Because people think justice is there, but I

00:58:37.900 --> 00:58:41.559
don't think it is that. It's something I don't

00:58:41.559 --> 00:58:44.059
see in real life when you actually fight against

00:58:44.059 --> 00:58:46.900
injustice. It's most likely you're going to be

00:58:46.900 --> 00:58:49.059
just like get killed and nobody cares and just

00:58:49.059 --> 00:58:55.349
keep moving on. What can be done? I mean, if

00:58:55.349 --> 00:58:58.070
the United States and the relationship the United

00:58:58.070 --> 00:59:01.130
States has with China, they're unwilling to do

00:59:01.130 --> 00:59:03.889
anything or even speak out about it. When they

00:59:03.889 --> 00:59:06.449
talk about the problems of the world, North Korea

00:59:06.449 --> 00:59:09.510
is rarely discussed. And the horrific crimes

00:59:09.510 --> 00:59:12.130
of the North Korean regime against their own

00:59:12.130 --> 00:59:16.329
people, rarely discussed by politicians. They'll

00:59:16.329 --> 00:59:18.469
talk about Afghanistan. They'll talk about Iraq.

00:59:18.650 --> 00:59:20.389
They'll talk about all the problems we have with

00:59:20.389 --> 00:59:23.800
Iran. They don't talk about... what's going on

00:59:23.800 --> 00:59:26.880
right now what you're describing in north korea

00:59:26.880 --> 00:59:28.739
with these concentration camps and these people

00:59:28.739 --> 00:59:31.280
they don't talk about these things yeah what

00:59:31.280 --> 00:59:36.119
can be done i think by talk i think this is a

00:59:36.119 --> 00:59:40.019
beauty about living in democracy like when i

00:59:40.019 --> 00:59:41.900
go to whole foods right coming from north korea

00:59:41.900 --> 00:59:45.599
i'm shocked by how many hand washing is like

00:59:45.599 --> 00:59:49.219
by i mean all about like environment friendly

00:59:49.219 --> 00:59:53.780
products right And that means a lot of people

00:59:53.780 --> 00:59:57.739
want to support this cause. Right. Look at how

00:59:57.739 --> 01:00:00.820
many vegan restaurants are popping up in New

01:00:00.820 --> 01:00:04.280
York. So a lot of people demand that now. So

01:00:04.280 --> 01:00:07.619
if individuals are being educated on what is

01:00:07.619 --> 01:00:10.199
happening and who is actually responsible for

01:00:10.199 --> 01:00:13.119
supporting North Korean regime and how hard it

01:00:13.119 --> 01:00:15.539
is for the people who are being oppressed, if

01:00:15.539 --> 01:00:17.980
they start demanding the politicians and the

01:00:17.980 --> 01:00:21.099
world leaders and companies to be conscious and

01:00:21.099 --> 01:00:24.760
act, I think that is, at this point, my only

01:00:24.760 --> 01:00:28.599
hope is individuals. I have stopped trying to

01:00:28.599 --> 01:00:31.219
talk to the UN. I don't even give talks anymore

01:00:31.219 --> 01:00:33.639
at the UN. Did you give talks in the past? Yeah.

01:00:33.739 --> 01:00:37.380
What was the response? They, in Geneva in September,

01:00:37.460 --> 01:00:40.840
the Human Rights General Assembly meeting, how

01:00:40.840 --> 01:00:43.599
dumb of them. They literally put me alone right

01:00:43.599 --> 01:00:46.779
next to the North Korean delegation team. Because

01:00:46.779 --> 01:00:48.980
geographically, you are somehow close. So these

01:00:48.980 --> 01:00:51.679
five guys from North Korean delegation team are

01:00:51.679 --> 01:00:54.780
swearing at me. And the UN, that's what they

01:00:54.780 --> 01:00:57.280
do. That's how dumb they are. They sat them next

01:00:57.280 --> 01:00:59.460
to you? Yeah. They put me right next to North

01:00:59.460 --> 01:01:03.500
Korean delegation team. And no protection? No.

01:01:03.980 --> 01:01:06.840
I was so scared that going to hotel room that

01:01:06.840 --> 01:01:09.500
night. Because I don't have anybody protecting

01:01:09.500 --> 01:01:14.309
me. I have tried, of course, but at the UN, who

01:01:14.309 --> 01:01:17.070
decides the human rights violators, Chinese and

01:01:17.070 --> 01:01:20.750
Putin and Saudis do. They decide who actually

01:01:20.750 --> 01:01:23.869
violates human rights. That's crazy. Yeah. So

01:01:23.869 --> 01:01:26.530
I have to go ask Chinese who actually committing

01:01:26.530 --> 01:01:28.530
this crime and complain that, of course, they're

01:01:28.530 --> 01:01:31.510
not going to listen to me. So what is the even

01:01:31.510 --> 01:01:35.460
point of the UN for this? And, of course, I met

01:01:35.460 --> 01:01:38.099
Nancy Pelosi. I met a lot of politicians. And

01:01:38.099 --> 01:01:39.860
on surface, like, oh, that's really horrible.

01:01:39.940 --> 01:01:42.179
Let me think about what can I do. But, of course,

01:01:42.199 --> 01:01:44.760
this is not what they care. They care about the

01:01:44.760 --> 01:01:46.659
systemic oppression that is happening in America

01:01:46.659 --> 01:01:48.960
more. They care about what's going to get them

01:01:48.960 --> 01:01:53.960
votes. Yeah. And what's popular, what's on people's

01:01:53.960 --> 01:01:56.840
minds right now and whatever the narrative is

01:01:56.840 --> 01:01:58.559
that they're currently pushing. Yeah. It's going

01:01:58.559 --> 01:02:01.039
to allow them to get elected again. Yeah. It's

01:02:01.039 --> 01:02:03.619
all about their own interest. So when you spoke

01:02:03.619 --> 01:02:08.619
at the UN, what was the reception like? Oh, they

01:02:08.619 --> 01:02:11.159
are saying like this is the West propaganda trying

01:02:11.159 --> 01:02:14.340
to interfere other people's autonomy. North Korea

01:02:14.340 --> 01:02:17.239
is a state of their own. You should not interfere

01:02:17.239 --> 01:02:21.360
the other people's affairs. That's like still

01:02:21.360 --> 01:02:23.420
to this day Chinese narrative, right? They don't

01:02:23.420 --> 01:02:25.920
ask us what we are doing to Xinjiang Uyghurs

01:02:25.920 --> 01:02:28.119
or Falun Gong or like organ trafficking, all

01:02:28.119 --> 01:02:30.539
of that. It's our own business. Organ trafficking.

01:02:30.659 --> 01:02:34.679
Yeah. So when North Koreans go to China, we're

01:02:34.679 --> 01:02:38.179
ending up like several different sources. Worst

01:02:38.179 --> 01:02:41.019
case is they take us and take our organs out,

01:02:41.099 --> 01:02:45.440
and suddenly we die. Like which organs? Everybody,

01:02:45.679 --> 01:02:48.320
your eyes, heart, lungs, kidneys, liver, all

01:02:48.320 --> 01:02:52.139
of it. They sell them. Of course, in China, you

01:02:52.139 --> 01:02:54.420
order the organ, it gets to you within three

01:02:54.420 --> 01:02:57.079
hours. How is it possible? How somebody dies

01:02:57.079 --> 01:03:03.559
miraculously in three hours for you? Do you know

01:03:03.559 --> 01:03:07.039
how many hospitals are being built for the organ

01:03:07.039 --> 01:03:10.820
transfer in China? How many? This is the biggest

01:03:10.820 --> 01:03:13.980
revenue right now being built in China. So do

01:03:13.980 --> 01:03:16.119
people from other countries go to China for organ

01:03:16.119 --> 01:03:18.480
replacements? Yeah. A lot of the Middle East

01:03:18.480 --> 01:03:21.239
and those countries go to China to get the organs.

01:03:21.239 --> 01:03:23.519
So they just turn a blind eye to it. Yeah. They

01:03:23.519 --> 01:03:25.760
don't think about the origin of the actual organs

01:03:25.760 --> 01:03:29.170
themselves. Yeah. They just go. Get it. Oh, I

01:03:29.170 --> 01:03:31.590
need a lung replacement. And China says, well,

01:03:31.630 --> 01:03:33.010
if you go here, we can get it for you. Yeah.

01:03:33.050 --> 01:03:35.429
And they go, and then they kill someone and take

01:03:35.429 --> 01:03:39.130
their lungs. Yeah. It became a biggest now, like,

01:03:39.130 --> 01:03:41.670
new industry that is rising in China is organ

01:03:41.670 --> 01:03:44.170
transfer. And those people are generally North

01:03:44.170 --> 01:03:47.170
Koreans? Those are, a lot of them were Falun

01:03:47.170 --> 01:03:50.159
Gong. practitioners in China. Okay. Uyghurs?

01:03:50.320 --> 01:03:53.239
Yeah. Now the Uyghurs. But Falun Gong is different,

01:03:53.340 --> 01:03:56.699
like a peaceful religion they were wanted. Falun

01:03:56.699 --> 01:04:00.139
Gong, Uyghurs, and not as much Tibetans, but

01:04:00.139 --> 01:04:02.699
more like Xinjiang now with Falun Gong and North

01:04:02.699 --> 01:04:05.559
Koreans. And so they have them in some prisons

01:04:05.559 --> 01:04:08.300
somewhere. Yeah. And they feed them and just

01:04:08.300 --> 01:04:10.119
wait for someone to come along that needs their

01:04:10.119 --> 01:04:13.619
organs and then they kill them. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

01:04:13.739 --> 01:04:19.070
And this is proven? It's, I mean. Well, a lot

01:04:19.070 --> 01:04:21.110
of other things are proven because when these

01:04:21.110 --> 01:04:23.710
people die, how do we ask them, how did you die?

01:04:23.849 --> 01:04:28.010
They are dead. So that is a lot of Falun Gong

01:04:28.010 --> 01:04:30.750
survivors do testimony. They have told about

01:04:30.750 --> 01:04:33.510
this. Yeah, it's very well known. Jamie can look

01:04:33.510 --> 01:04:36.289
it up. The UN even condemned China for that.

01:04:36.550 --> 01:04:39.369
Even they couldn't turn their eyes blind on it.

01:04:39.389 --> 01:04:43.050
It was too evidence. And another thing North

01:04:43.050 --> 01:04:45.929
Koreans go is prostitution, brothers, right?

01:04:46.280 --> 01:04:49.039
And these girls resist. So what they do, they

01:04:49.039 --> 01:04:52.340
give them drugs. So they make them become drug

01:04:52.340 --> 01:04:57.159
addicts. So now all they want is drugs. So that's

01:04:57.159 --> 01:05:00.300
how they go to brothels. And then these men,

01:05:00.380 --> 01:05:02.480
I said, in these villages cannot afford women

01:05:02.480 --> 01:05:04.960
in these little towns. So they buy one girl,

01:05:05.039 --> 01:05:07.780
and they rotate the entire men in that town.

01:05:11.389 --> 01:05:14.469
and then like me uh some of them just being sold

01:05:14.469 --> 01:05:17.690
like my mom was source for uh just like mentally

01:05:17.690 --> 01:05:21.269
retarded family the farmer's family and we go

01:05:21.269 --> 01:05:24.349
became a free labor for them and being a sex

01:05:24.349 --> 01:05:28.869
slave for them and and then being a sex slave

01:05:28.869 --> 01:05:33.269
for a mentally retarded family yeah i mean because

01:05:33.269 --> 01:05:35.530
if they're normal and they wouldn't they can't

01:05:35.530 --> 01:05:39.380
find wives they order like mentally retarded

01:05:39.380 --> 01:05:42.840
and not functioning people, those people cannot

01:05:42.840 --> 01:05:45.559
find a wife. So that's why we're ending up in

01:05:45.559 --> 01:05:48.360
the most horrible places. We don't just go and

01:05:48.360 --> 01:05:55.480
fall in love and meet some normal person. So

01:05:55.480 --> 01:06:02.260
when you were 13, you escaped. Tell us what it

01:06:02.260 --> 01:06:03.659
was like. First of all, where did you escape

01:06:03.659 --> 01:06:06.539
to? You escaped to China? Yeah. And how did you

01:06:06.539 --> 01:06:10.090
get across? It was a frozen river in March, end

01:06:10.090 --> 01:06:14.789
of March in 2007. So you travel on the frozen

01:06:14.789 --> 01:06:18.469
river. Yeah. And we luckily didn't get shot by

01:06:18.469 --> 01:06:21.610
the guards. And when we got into the other side

01:06:21.610 --> 01:06:24.230
of the riverbank of China, that's when my mom

01:06:24.230 --> 01:06:26.829
got raped. And then they took us in a house.

01:06:27.630 --> 01:06:30.429
And they were, like, turning me around like a

01:06:30.429 --> 01:06:32.909
slave market, right? They checked my teeth and

01:06:32.909 --> 01:06:36.670
my body structure. And somehow being a virgin

01:06:36.670 --> 01:06:40.670
is very precious in China. So they sold my mom

01:06:40.670 --> 01:06:45.369
for around $65. And it's 21st century. And they

01:06:45.369 --> 01:06:49.309
sold me less than $300. And they sold us separately.

01:06:49.909 --> 01:06:53.869
But the thing is, they didn't even try to force

01:06:53.869 --> 01:06:57.510
us. They were asking, if you don't want to be

01:06:57.510 --> 01:07:00.010
sold, you can go back to North Korea, right?

01:07:01.109 --> 01:07:03.250
And even if the North Korean regime doesn't punish

01:07:03.250 --> 01:07:07.170
me, I couldn't find food to eat. I was going

01:07:07.170 --> 01:07:09.949
to die anyway. Even if the regime doesn't kill

01:07:09.949 --> 01:07:13.269
me, the starvation was going to kill me. And

01:07:13.269 --> 01:07:15.570
for the first time, I remember that night in

01:07:15.570 --> 01:07:20.230
the trafficker's house, I saw a trash can. And

01:07:20.230 --> 01:07:23.449
I did not know what it was. So I asked this lady,

01:07:23.650 --> 01:07:25.690
like, what is that? And then I hear one thing.

01:07:25.909 --> 01:07:28.070
I said, oh, that's a trash. Like, what is trash?

01:07:28.530 --> 01:07:29.789
She's like, oh, the things that you don't need

01:07:29.789 --> 01:07:31.989
to throw there. Like, you just throw bin away.

01:07:32.829 --> 01:07:35.150
And I was like, what do you mean you have things

01:07:35.150 --> 01:07:38.369
to throw away? Because we never needed a trash

01:07:38.369 --> 01:07:40.789
bin in North Korea. We had nothing to throw.

01:07:40.969 --> 01:07:43.690
Even these hairs, it comes down. We don't have,

01:07:43.710 --> 01:07:45.889
like, heating like that. We have to start a fire.

01:07:46.489 --> 01:07:49.170
And starting fire takes paper. It's very precious.

01:07:49.429 --> 01:07:52.760
So we burn, like, hair there. to try to start

01:07:52.760 --> 01:07:56.099
a fire. Like literally nothing was thrown away.

01:07:56.199 --> 01:07:58.260
Even human poop, right? Yeah. I mean, that's

01:07:58.260 --> 01:08:01.079
the thing. That regime cannot have a fertilizer.

01:08:01.219 --> 01:08:03.260
They don't even have the technology to have a

01:08:03.260 --> 01:08:06.380
fertilizer. So they demand us to bring the poop.

01:08:07.420 --> 01:08:10.219
And as a kid, you go to school, the teachers

01:08:10.219 --> 01:08:12.079
beat you and then go home and look for poop.

01:08:12.650 --> 01:08:15.449
So I would go on the streets and looking if anywhere,

01:08:15.570 --> 01:08:18.210
like, a dog pooped or something. Of course, like,

01:08:18.270 --> 01:08:21.390
all those dogs or poops gone. So finding a poop,

01:08:21.430 --> 01:08:23.710
and when you don't eat much, you don't poop,

01:08:23.770 --> 01:08:25.829
like, in North Korea, like, a few times a month.

01:08:26.289 --> 01:08:28.609
It's a very precious thing. Yeah, of course.

01:08:28.869 --> 01:08:32.489
A few times a month. Yeah. And it becomes very

01:08:32.489 --> 01:08:34.270
precious, and you have to give it over to the

01:08:34.270 --> 01:08:38.810
regime. Yeah. So that's nothing. It's being raised

01:08:38.810 --> 01:08:42.220
in the regime. toilets or do you go to the bathroom

01:08:42.220 --> 01:08:45.319
in outhouses oh we have all our houses digging

01:08:45.319 --> 01:08:48.199
a hole but we have to lock it because some people

01:08:48.199 --> 01:08:50.659
come and steal it they come to steal the poop

01:08:50.659 --> 01:08:52.779
yeah it's a government quota you get punished

01:08:52.779 --> 01:08:55.539
if you don't bring poop everything is punishment

01:08:55.539 --> 01:08:58.920
in that country so how much what is the quota

01:08:58.920 --> 01:09:00.680
like how much poop do you have to give them so

01:09:00.680 --> 01:09:04.060
sometimes per family they say one ton how do

01:09:04.060 --> 01:09:06.979
you find that a ton yeah so two thousand pounds

01:09:07.869 --> 01:09:10.390
I do the kilograms, so like 1 ,000 kilograms,

01:09:10.710 --> 01:09:13.250
right? It's like a ton. 1 ,000 kilograms. Yeah,

01:09:13.810 --> 01:09:17.170
it's about right. Yeah, yeah. So per family,

01:09:17.270 --> 01:09:20.430
or they give you the kora. So that's per year?

01:09:20.670 --> 01:09:24.170
Yeah. And then we have to bring them in usually

01:09:24.170 --> 01:09:26.609
January. So because the farming starts around

01:09:26.609 --> 01:09:32.840
March, so they have to... In January, they collect

01:09:32.840 --> 01:09:35.399
them and pile them up, and then they start burying

01:09:35.399 --> 01:09:38.359
it, and then the thaw happens, and they start

01:09:38.359 --> 01:09:42.140
the farming process in the spring. And even then,

01:09:42.180 --> 01:09:44.340
you don't get any of the food that they're growing?

01:09:44.579 --> 01:09:47.659
No, it's a collective farm. So they take 98 %

01:09:47.659 --> 01:09:50.500
of the food to the regime, and then that 2 %

01:09:50.500 --> 01:09:52.460
is spread among the elites who's running the

01:09:52.460 --> 01:09:56.180
farm. So you work entire year in the collective

01:09:56.180 --> 01:10:02.149
farm. You get nothing from it. There's also cannibalism.

01:10:02.270 --> 01:10:08.329
Yeah. How does that happen? It's really like

01:10:08.329 --> 01:10:11.449
people say, oh, don't dehumanize people of North

01:10:11.449 --> 01:10:14.350
Korea. Because they say, oh, just tell us the

01:10:14.350 --> 01:10:18.069
nice things. That's just too much for us to handle.

01:10:20.229 --> 01:10:25.560
And this is the thing. and there's like people

01:10:25.560 --> 01:10:29.199
go to black market you sell meat people don't

01:10:29.199 --> 01:10:33.960
ask what meat it is we don't ask it's like pork

01:10:33.960 --> 01:10:38.680
or like it's just a rabbit we don't and we just

01:10:38.680 --> 01:10:41.840
sometimes we go find a very very cheap meat and

01:10:41.840 --> 01:10:46.060
we don't ask and luckily I was too poor to afford

01:10:46.060 --> 01:10:50.560
the meat I didn't get to eat them a lot of Children

01:10:50.560 --> 01:10:52.939
just disappear. But the thing is, there's no

01:10:52.939 --> 01:10:56.439
evidence. Everybody dies in some corner, gets

01:10:56.439 --> 01:11:00.840
drowned. So we go to river to bathe. We only

01:11:00.840 --> 01:11:02.699
bathe a few times a year. Wintertime, we don't

01:11:02.699 --> 01:11:05.060
even bathe. And during the winter, we have to

01:11:05.060 --> 01:11:07.699
go to wash our clothes. So we make a small hole

01:11:07.699 --> 01:11:10.359
in the river. And sometimes you fall and slip

01:11:10.359 --> 01:11:13.479
through, and you die like that. So it's just

01:11:13.479 --> 01:11:17.399
so easy to... Murder is not a thing. So many

01:11:17.399 --> 01:11:21.060
cause killing you. So some people, you lose your

01:11:21.060 --> 01:11:23.699
children. We just don't even know what killed

01:11:23.699 --> 01:11:26.579
it. And nobody bothered to go out and find it

01:11:26.579 --> 01:11:30.300
for you. So many people die. So that's why it's

01:11:30.300 --> 01:11:34.180
easy to sell the human meat. So either they're

01:11:34.180 --> 01:11:37.380
killing the children or they'll find them dead

01:11:37.380 --> 01:11:40.340
and then just cook their meat and sell it. Yeah.

01:11:40.619 --> 01:11:48.689
This is common. Yeah. So when you escaped to

01:11:48.689 --> 01:11:52.609
China, what is the process like when you're in

01:11:52.609 --> 01:11:59.449
China? You eventually got to South Korea. Yeah.

01:11:59.930 --> 01:12:03.050
How long were you in China for? Almost two years.

01:12:03.750 --> 01:12:05.689
And what was that like? What was the process

01:12:05.689 --> 01:12:10.729
like? Well, living in two years of China, I feel

01:12:10.729 --> 01:12:12.729
like I lived a thousand years on this earth.

01:12:13.680 --> 01:12:17.079
i feel like very old um yeah i remember after

01:12:17.079 --> 01:12:21.159
there for six months one day i was walking alone

01:12:21.159 --> 01:12:24.119
and then it's like i literally felt like i lived

01:12:24.119 --> 01:12:26.960
thousand years right like making it one day was

01:12:26.960 --> 01:12:30.760
such a struggle whenever you let one day leave

01:12:30.760 --> 01:12:32.960
you think like oh my god i made one more day

01:12:32.960 --> 01:12:36.060
on earth in china yeah so it was that hard in

01:12:36.060 --> 01:12:38.920
china what was so hard about it because one you

01:12:38.920 --> 01:12:41.470
don't know when you're gonna be arrested So you

01:12:41.470 --> 01:12:43.949
always put your shoes on tight, shoes races.

01:12:44.069 --> 01:12:46.369
And whenever you get into some indoor, you look

01:12:46.369 --> 01:12:49.949
for a place to run. If you are invited to somebody's

01:12:49.949 --> 01:12:52.489
house, you see the door, check the doors. Where

01:12:52.489 --> 01:12:55.510
can I run? Which route do I run? When you even

01:12:55.510 --> 01:12:58.670
sleep, you know how to run. You get ready to

01:12:58.670 --> 01:13:02.409
run from the police. And that is a constant threat.

01:13:02.810 --> 01:13:06.010
And of course, you're raped every single day

01:13:06.010 --> 01:13:09.130
by these human traffickers. And they even come

01:13:09.130 --> 01:13:11.090
follow you to the bathroom. There's no human

01:13:11.090 --> 01:13:15.250
dignity in it. They beat you and they, I mean,

01:13:15.250 --> 01:13:18.130
you're not your own person. And the common things

01:13:18.130 --> 01:13:21.489
that they tell us, tell us that you, our lives

01:13:21.489 --> 01:13:24.850
are even not valuable like pigs. Because even

01:13:24.850 --> 01:13:26.510
they kill us, they know that we cannot go to

01:13:26.510 --> 01:13:31.529
police. How did you escape from all that? This

01:13:31.529 --> 01:13:36.659
is, so the man who bombed me. He was very impressed

01:13:36.659 --> 01:13:40.439
because by then I went through two human traffickers

01:13:40.439 --> 01:13:44.699
prior me. So by the third human trafficker, nobody's

01:13:44.699 --> 01:13:49.180
virgin. They all got raped. So he was Han Chinese

01:13:49.180 --> 01:13:51.479
and couldn't believe that I made it to him as

01:13:51.479 --> 01:13:54.939
a virgin. Because the first trafficker, my mom

01:13:54.939 --> 01:13:57.520
covered. Second trafficker, I fought like hell.

01:13:57.720 --> 01:14:01.039
I would literally lose my mind. And thankfully

01:14:01.039 --> 01:14:05.489
he had his mistress in the next room. So I didn't

01:14:05.489 --> 01:14:08.510
get raped. He tried so hard, I didn't. So by

01:14:08.510 --> 01:14:11.350
the third time, Han Chinese, I was trying to

01:14:11.350 --> 01:14:14.810
kill myself. And then he said, oh, if you become

01:14:14.810 --> 01:14:17.430
my mistress, I'm going to help you to get your

01:14:17.430 --> 01:14:21.409
family to you. But before that, he showed me

01:14:21.409 --> 01:14:23.909
the phone he had, because I'd never seen a phone

01:14:23.909 --> 01:14:26.489
in my life as North Korean. And he showed me,

01:14:26.630 --> 01:14:28.510
oh, this phone can take pictures, and look at

01:14:28.510 --> 01:14:31.909
these pictures I took. And in one picture, I

01:14:31.909 --> 01:14:35.550
saw my mom in it. And I started telling my mom,

01:14:35.590 --> 01:14:39.390
and that's how he knew that the woman that he

01:14:39.390 --> 01:14:41.989
sold was my mom, and obviously he raped her too.

01:14:42.630 --> 01:14:46.470
So he said, if I become his mistress, he's going

01:14:46.470 --> 01:14:52.090
to help me with my family. So he took my virginity,

01:14:52.109 --> 01:14:55.750
he raped me, and thankfully he did help me. He

01:14:55.750 --> 01:14:58.590
brought my mom back from a farmer that he sold,

01:14:58.729 --> 01:15:01.489
and he brought my sick father from North Korea.

01:15:02.639 --> 01:15:05.739
That's how I brought my parents back to me. How

01:15:05.739 --> 01:15:09.079
did you escape from him? After almost two years,

01:15:09.159 --> 01:15:13.100
he became a gambling addict. He was a big gambler.

01:15:13.180 --> 01:15:16.600
He was spending all his money. And somehow this

01:15:16.600 --> 01:15:19.239
evil man was letting me go because he couldn't

01:15:19.239 --> 01:15:21.640
even afford to give me food at that point. He

01:15:21.640 --> 01:15:24.960
was so broke. So he said, like, I'm letting you

01:15:24.960 --> 01:15:28.619
go. And in some ways, in his most evil way, he

01:15:28.619 --> 01:15:33.399
loved me. So after two years, I was let go, and

01:15:33.399 --> 01:15:36.680
then I went to this chat room. So this is another

01:15:36.680 --> 01:15:40.539
thing. A lot of North Korean girls capture in

01:15:40.539 --> 01:15:44.779
these chat rooms where we do body cams. Clients

01:15:44.779 --> 01:15:48.800
are South Koreans. So we chat, and then we show

01:15:48.800 --> 01:15:52.060
our body. But North Korean women, we choose that

01:15:52.060 --> 01:15:53.720
route because it's better than being touched

01:15:53.720 --> 01:15:57.340
by men in person, right? You're not raped in

01:15:57.340 --> 01:15:59.359
person. So this is all on the Internet with web

01:15:59.359 --> 01:16:02.739
cameras? That's the number one thing that North

01:16:02.739 --> 01:16:05.840
Korean women do in China. All this nightlife.

01:16:05.939 --> 01:16:08.979
So in that room, I heard about something called

01:16:08.979 --> 01:16:11.039
South Korea for the person because the clients

01:16:11.039 --> 01:16:12.819
are South Koreans. You didn't know what South

01:16:12.819 --> 01:16:16.239
Korea was? I knew the different name, like different

01:16:16.239 --> 01:16:19.340
name, but I knew that country was colonized by

01:16:19.340 --> 01:16:21.880
Americans. I heard that in South Korea, that

01:16:21.880 --> 01:16:26.020
South Korea was very corrupt capitalist and raped

01:16:26.020 --> 01:16:28.880
by American soldiers every day. And they are

01:16:28.880 --> 01:16:31.130
like, cannot go to. Kids cannot go to school,

01:16:31.229 --> 01:16:33.970
and they all want to come to North Korea. That's

01:16:33.970 --> 01:16:35.550
what you learned from North Korea? Oh, yeah,

01:16:35.609 --> 01:16:37.489
that's what I thought. Wow, they all want to

01:16:37.489 --> 01:16:39.350
go to North Korea. Yeah, they all want to come

01:16:39.350 --> 01:16:41.630
to North Korea. The entire humanity wants to

01:16:41.630 --> 01:16:44.270
be like North Korea, so we are so fortunate.

01:16:44.590 --> 01:16:47.310
They tell us that we have nothing to envy in

01:16:47.310 --> 01:16:54.050
this world. Wow. Yeah. So you find out about

01:16:54.050 --> 01:16:56.369
South Korea from these chat rooms, and you start

01:16:56.369 --> 01:16:58.630
to get a different idea of what South Korea must

01:16:58.630 --> 01:17:02.189
be like. Yeah. and we met this defector lady

01:17:02.189 --> 01:17:05.130
in that chat room she told me she knows some

01:17:05.130 --> 01:17:08.770
missionaries and if we become christians they're

01:17:08.770 --> 01:17:11.590
gonna help us to go to south korea and be free

01:17:11.590 --> 01:17:15.010
and that's when i heard like free for the first

01:17:15.010 --> 01:17:18.250
time i asked like what do you mean free and she

01:17:18.250 --> 01:17:21.279
said oh, you can watch TV and you can wear jeans

01:17:21.279 --> 01:17:24.380
and nobody can arrest you for that in South Korea.

01:17:24.880 --> 01:17:26.840
So that's what I thought about freedom. Watching

01:17:26.840 --> 01:17:29.420
TV and wearing jeans. That's what you thought

01:17:29.420 --> 01:17:31.920
of freedom. It was never like freedom of speech

01:17:31.920 --> 01:17:33.979
or none of that. I was like, oh, that's cool.

01:17:34.079 --> 01:17:37.979
I can wear jeans. Because I was a teenage girl.

01:17:38.060 --> 01:17:40.180
I wanted jeans. And in North Korea, you get sent

01:17:40.180 --> 01:17:42.520
to prison camp for that. You get sent to prison

01:17:42.520 --> 01:17:44.739
camp for wearing jeans. Yeah, it's just a joke

01:17:44.739 --> 01:17:47.539
for Westerners that North Koreans even haircut.

01:17:48.460 --> 01:17:52.199
is like ordered by the regime. Like the only

01:17:52.199 --> 01:17:54.760
thing that North Koreans allowed to do that in

01:17:54.760 --> 01:17:59.560
that country fully, really is breathing. Everything

01:17:59.560 --> 01:18:04.000
else is controlled. What we wear, what we watch,

01:18:04.220 --> 01:18:07.680
what we listen to, how we dance, what haircut

01:18:07.680 --> 01:18:10.420
that we get, every single thing is controlled

01:18:10.420 --> 01:18:14.199
by the regime. So you're working in these chat

01:18:14.199 --> 01:18:17.260
rooms. And you meet this woman and she says,

01:18:17.260 --> 01:18:19.739
you just have to become a Christian? No, we have

01:18:19.739 --> 01:18:22.960
to go to a shelter that Christians had. So we

01:18:22.960 --> 01:18:26.020
have to go and they study Bible. And we have

01:18:26.020 --> 01:18:28.899
to prove our faith to them. Then they're going

01:18:28.899 --> 01:18:30.920
to rescue us. That was a condition to be rescued

01:18:30.920 --> 01:18:34.000
by Christians. So it's a Christian missionary

01:18:34.000 --> 01:18:40.680
from South Korea. Yeah. So did you have to go

01:18:40.680 --> 01:18:43.239
to South Korea in order to prove yourself to

01:18:43.239 --> 01:18:46.060
them? They do this all through online? No, we

01:18:46.060 --> 01:18:48.140
couldn't go to South Korea, obviously. So they

01:18:48.140 --> 01:18:51.739
had a shelter in China, in some house hidden.

01:18:52.020 --> 01:18:55.279
So we went to their shelter, and then we joined

01:18:55.279 --> 01:18:57.739
them as a group and studied the Bible every day.

01:18:58.319 --> 01:19:01.220
So we would go fasting. I mean, we've been starving

01:19:01.220 --> 01:19:04.119
all our lives, but they say, you know, God provides,

01:19:04.260 --> 01:19:06.960
so you go fast, you study Bible, you memorize

01:19:06.960 --> 01:19:10.460
verses, they come test you. And we pray together.

01:19:10.720 --> 01:19:13.579
And then once they think we are actually Christians,

01:19:13.800 --> 01:19:16.180
then they tell you how to go to South Korea.

01:19:16.399 --> 01:19:20.979
How long did that take? Several months. But when

01:19:20.979 --> 01:19:23.520
you're so desperate, right? Like, I'm going to

01:19:23.520 --> 01:19:26.060
believe in rocks if somebody asks me to believe.

01:19:26.180 --> 01:19:28.520
Like, you believe in anything, literally. Right.

01:19:28.760 --> 01:19:31.899
And it was so easy. Like, North Korea regime

01:19:31.899 --> 01:19:34.659
was Bible. I was like, what the heck is this

01:19:34.659 --> 01:19:36.680
thing called Jesus and God? And North Koreans

01:19:36.680 --> 01:19:39.159
were like, don't worry, baby. Just plug God to

01:19:39.159 --> 01:19:41.939
Kim Il -sung and Jesus to Kim Jong -il. And Paul

01:19:41.939 --> 01:19:44.479
perfectly made sense. God loves us so much, gave

01:19:44.479 --> 01:19:47.659
us his son. He's there to protect us. We've got

01:19:47.659 --> 01:19:50.279
to suffer and go to paradise with him later in

01:19:50.279 --> 01:19:54.779
life. So I did become a Christian. So it made

01:19:54.779 --> 01:19:56.800
the same sense to you because it was so similar

01:19:56.800 --> 01:19:58.699
to the story that they taught you in North Korea.

01:19:58.859 --> 01:20:03.289
The logic was so similar. So you became a Christian.

01:20:03.489 --> 01:20:07.029
Yeah. And several months of studying the Bible.

01:20:07.250 --> 01:20:09.869
Yeah. And then they eventually got you to South

01:20:09.869 --> 01:20:12.609
Korea. They told us how to go. How did you do

01:20:12.609 --> 01:20:18.229
that? Which was literally walking across the

01:20:18.229 --> 01:20:22.149
Gobi Desert into Mongolia from China. You walked?

01:20:22.409 --> 01:20:26.710
Yeah. Wow. So they gave us one compass. We had

01:20:26.710 --> 01:20:28.989
even toddler in our group. We had one father

01:20:28.989 --> 01:20:32.250
and his father and the seven ladies and a few

01:20:32.250 --> 01:20:35.829
teenagers. They told us... You went by compass?

01:20:36.109 --> 01:20:38.770
Yeah. Did they give you a map? I mean, you cannot

01:20:38.770 --> 01:20:40.670
look at the map in the desert. You don't have

01:20:40.670 --> 01:20:44.250
GPS. How do you know? Nothing tells you if you're

01:20:44.250 --> 01:20:47.289
going circle or straight or backwards. That was

01:20:47.289 --> 01:20:49.630
the... horrifying thing about desert is that

01:20:49.630 --> 01:20:52.970
it looks all the same right right nothing tells

01:20:52.970 --> 01:20:55.189
you what you're doing you can just keep going

01:20:55.189 --> 01:20:59.770
circle all night and then so they told us go

01:20:59.770 --> 01:21:03.470
follow the west and the north between in that

01:21:03.470 --> 01:21:07.329
direction and if you across the eight wire fences

01:21:07.329 --> 01:21:10.750
hopefully that's gonna be mongolia hopefully

01:21:10.750 --> 01:21:13.829
and then you find the mongolian soldiers and

01:21:13.829 --> 01:21:15.789
tell them that you want to go to south korea

01:21:15.789 --> 01:21:18.500
not north korea So that means so dangerous. The

01:21:18.500 --> 01:21:20.680
chances of you making it in that desert is not

01:21:20.680 --> 01:21:24.899
even like 2, 30 percent, right? Like 90, 80 percent

01:21:24.899 --> 01:21:26.960
of time you're going to fail. So they cannot

01:21:26.960 --> 01:21:29.819
lead us there. It's random luck. That's why they

01:21:29.819 --> 01:21:31.659
believe that God is going to show us a miracle.

01:21:32.079 --> 01:21:34.300
How long did it take you to walk from the Gobi

01:21:34.300 --> 01:21:36.819
Desert? It was just only one day. One day. But

01:21:36.819 --> 01:21:40.520
we chose that in February 2009 after Beijing

01:21:40.520 --> 01:21:43.659
Olympic. And in the frozen Gobi Desert, it's

01:21:43.659 --> 01:21:48.180
like minus 40 degrees. So the soldiers is thinking

01:21:48.180 --> 01:21:51.500
nobody's crazy enough to cross right now in this

01:21:51.500 --> 01:21:54.420
freezing time. So that's how you can do it? That

01:21:54.420 --> 01:21:56.960
security is lower. Other times they're going

01:21:56.960 --> 01:21:58.939
to shoot you because in that desert nobody knows

01:21:58.939 --> 01:22:01.979
if you got killed or not. So who would be shooting

01:22:01.979 --> 01:22:04.560
you? Chinese or the Mongolians. Both of them

01:22:04.560 --> 01:22:06.800
can just shoot you. They would just shoot anybody

01:22:06.800 --> 01:22:08.460
walking through the desert? It's called a shoot

01:22:08.460 --> 01:22:11.260
to order. It's like a shoot to kill order. So

01:22:11.260 --> 01:22:13.420
they don't bother to ask who you are. Just going

01:22:13.420 --> 01:22:16.779
to shoot them right there. and kill them so we

01:22:16.779 --> 01:22:19.859
don't even have ID none of that so we chose a

01:22:19.859 --> 01:22:23.159
time it was frozen and cold and even guards wouldn't

01:22:23.159 --> 01:22:26.140
don't want to come out and look around so we

01:22:26.140 --> 01:22:29.000
from walking from Chinese side but they took

01:22:29.000 --> 01:22:31.699
us to the border of China inner Mongolia that

01:22:31.699 --> 01:22:34.420
which was still China from that border we started

01:22:34.420 --> 01:22:38.340
walking towards Mongolia And the entire day of

01:22:38.340 --> 01:22:41.420
walking, we got there. So miraculously, we didn't

01:22:41.420 --> 01:22:44.560
die from the cold. Did you bring food? Did you

01:22:44.560 --> 01:22:46.439
bring water? What did you bring with you when

01:22:46.439 --> 01:22:48.880
you were walking? Like in minus 40 degrees, you

01:22:48.880 --> 01:22:51.659
cannot even stand still for three seconds. Like

01:22:51.659 --> 01:22:53.380
if you stand still for 10 seconds, you're going

01:22:53.380 --> 01:22:55.159
to die right there. You're going to get a heart

01:22:55.159 --> 01:22:58.579
attack, frozen to death. So you don't even need

01:22:58.579 --> 01:23:01.899
to eat. You just have to, only thing I remember

01:23:01.899 --> 01:23:04.260
was moving, moving, moving. Keep going. Keep

01:23:04.260 --> 01:23:06.949
moving. Whatever I was doing, I had to keep moving.

01:23:07.029 --> 01:23:11.090
Otherwise, you don't get enough oxygen. So very

01:23:11.090 --> 01:23:15.729
hazy and not clear. You get very sleepy. That's

01:23:15.729 --> 01:23:18.090
the thing. Dying from cold wasn't bad as I thought.

01:23:18.810 --> 01:23:23.729
You become very numb. And you don't really desensitize.

01:23:23.729 --> 01:23:26.630
And you become very, very sleepy. And that's

01:23:26.630 --> 01:23:28.930
when you know you're dying in the cold. How many

01:23:28.930 --> 01:23:31.850
people were with you? We had one baby and seven

01:23:31.850 --> 01:23:35.909
people. Toughest thing is when we were going

01:23:35.909 --> 01:23:38.149
across China, we had to give him sleeping pills

01:23:38.149 --> 01:23:40.590
because he would cry and he doesn't speak Chinese.

01:23:41.109 --> 01:23:43.609
But in the desert, he had to be wake up because

01:23:43.609 --> 01:23:45.489
he's going to die frozen to death in the desert.

01:23:46.109 --> 01:23:49.270
So this baby keep falling asleep. So we had to

01:23:49.270 --> 01:23:51.710
keep checking our passing around between us.

01:23:52.270 --> 01:23:55.489
And he made it eventually. So he has to stay

01:23:55.489 --> 01:23:59.250
awake because if he falls asleep, the cold will

01:23:59.250 --> 01:24:03.100
kill him? Oh, yeah, of course. But he's not walking,

01:24:03.159 --> 01:24:04.659
right? You're carrying him? He's a toddler. He

01:24:04.659 --> 01:24:06.979
cannot walk. He's a few years old. But he still

01:24:06.979 --> 01:24:09.739
needs to be awake. So we had to keep, like, shaking

01:24:09.739 --> 01:24:12.500
him and, like, massage his feet and hands and

01:24:12.500 --> 01:24:15.420
shake him up and down so he could be, like, conscious

01:24:15.420 --> 01:24:17.560
and up. Because he would keep falling asleep.

01:24:18.060 --> 01:24:20.739
What kind of clothes are you guys wearing? We

01:24:20.739 --> 01:24:22.899
didn't have gloves. We didn't have anything.

01:24:22.960 --> 01:24:24.500
You didn't have gloves. No. Four degrees below

01:24:24.500 --> 01:24:27.819
zero. Yeah. So my mom didn't even have shoes

01:24:27.819 --> 01:24:30.380
at that point. So she eventually borrowed the

01:24:30.380 --> 01:24:34.640
shoes from a guy and robbed him so big. And I

01:24:34.640 --> 01:24:38.420
was like, just wear a thin coat. And somehow,

01:24:38.659 --> 01:24:42.939
that's why I guess we needed a miracle. That's

01:24:42.939 --> 01:24:45.060
why we had to pray. I don't know. It's a very

01:24:45.060 --> 01:24:47.439
low chance of making it. So nobody is escaping

01:24:47.439 --> 01:24:51.720
through Mongolia anymore. So you walk through

01:24:51.720 --> 01:24:55.119
Mongolia, it takes you 24 hours? Just roughly

01:24:55.119 --> 01:24:57.560
one day, I think we took, yeah. And then what

01:24:57.560 --> 01:25:00.159
happens when you get to the other side? We didn't

01:25:00.159 --> 01:25:02.560
get to the other side. One just suddenly in the

01:25:02.560 --> 01:25:06.119
morning, the guards with the guns coming at you

01:25:06.119 --> 01:25:08.939
and asking to put your hands up. So we were like

01:25:08.939 --> 01:25:11.579
lifting our hands up, right? And then they were

01:25:11.579 --> 01:25:13.800
like saying they're going to send us to China

01:25:13.800 --> 01:25:17.980
and then back to North Korea to get killed. So,

01:25:17.980 --> 01:25:20.819
North Korea's women escapee bring the laser and

01:25:20.819 --> 01:25:23.500
poisons with us to try to kill ourselves. Because

01:25:23.500 --> 01:25:25.619
I mean, going to North Korea to get killed is

01:25:25.619 --> 01:25:27.500
way worse than killing ourselves right there.

01:25:28.330 --> 01:25:30.770
So we... So you brought poison with you to kill

01:25:30.770 --> 01:25:33.149
yourself? And a laser, yeah. And a laser? What

01:25:33.149 --> 01:25:34.770
kind of laser? Very, very thin laser. That's

01:25:34.770 --> 01:25:37.869
like China or North Korea said it. Like very,

01:25:38.050 --> 01:25:40.989
very thin laser. Oh, razor? Like blade, yeah.

01:25:41.229 --> 01:25:44.029
Blade, metal. Yeah, metal thing. Very thin one.

01:25:44.210 --> 01:25:46.630
Yeah, right, right. It's razor. Oh, razor. Yeah,

01:25:46.649 --> 01:25:48.890
we hide in the beds like everywhere. So to cut

01:25:48.890 --> 01:25:50.789
your veins. Yeah, like right here, right here.

01:25:50.890 --> 01:25:55.590
It's very easy to cut. So we were... This is

01:25:55.590 --> 01:25:59.000
like what... still shocked me is that these mongolian

01:25:59.000 --> 01:26:02.060
soldiers didn't have the sense to china but they

01:26:02.060 --> 01:26:06.800
want to see how we react so that's what they

01:26:06.800 --> 01:26:09.100
were playing with us right for us is like a life

01:26:09.100 --> 01:26:13.060
and death for them is like a joke and thankfully

01:26:13.060 --> 01:26:15.619
they will not let us kill ourselves a lot like

01:26:15.619 --> 01:26:17.760
very last minute they stopped us and turned the

01:26:17.760 --> 01:26:20.819
car back around to the mongolian side but the

01:26:20.819 --> 01:26:23.689
next team that crossed the border Got all arrested

01:26:23.689 --> 01:26:25.569
and sent back to North Korea. But the following

01:26:25.569 --> 01:26:28.590
team, they were doing that, and Mongolian soldiers

01:26:28.590 --> 01:26:32.130
went too far. So one of my friends, she swallowed

01:26:32.130 --> 01:26:35.909
the entire sleeping pills to cure herself. And

01:26:35.909 --> 01:26:38.130
then they took her to ER, and they revived her,

01:26:38.329 --> 01:26:42.210
but forever her brain got damaged. So this was

01:26:42.210 --> 01:26:46.090
a joke to them. So they thought it was funny

01:26:46.090 --> 01:26:49.229
to scare the refugees. Yeah. It's funny to see

01:26:49.229 --> 01:26:56.529
how we fight for our lives. Yeah, but thankfully

01:26:56.529 --> 01:27:01.489
nobody's choosing their route anymore. So when

01:27:01.489 --> 01:27:04.170
they capture you and they threaten to send you

01:27:04.170 --> 01:27:06.229
to China and then back to North Korea, how did

01:27:06.229 --> 01:27:12.130
you get out of it? I remember telling my mom

01:27:12.130 --> 01:27:17.689
we did everything to survive. it was like because

01:27:17.689 --> 01:27:20.470
in China in the prisons they even get rid of

01:27:20.470 --> 01:27:23.250
the buttons everything is all like you cannot

01:27:23.250 --> 01:27:25.050
swallow to kill yourself right they don't even

01:27:25.050 --> 01:27:28.529
give you a spoon so that's how prevent a suicide

01:27:28.529 --> 01:27:30.789
because all nurse can kill themselves before

01:27:30.789 --> 01:27:34.869
they go because they know the fate so I know

01:27:34.869 --> 01:27:36.890
like if I miss the opportunity to kill myself

01:27:36.890 --> 01:27:39.720
in the car On the way to China, we are never

01:27:39.720 --> 01:27:42.260
going to get the chance back. So we were ready

01:27:42.260 --> 01:27:44.819
to cut and then swallow the thing, and that's

01:27:44.819 --> 01:27:48.979
when they stopped. And sometimes they just go

01:27:48.979 --> 01:27:52.140
too far with it. So it's always a joke to them.

01:27:52.340 --> 01:27:55.779
Yeah, we did not know. But later, when we were

01:27:55.779 --> 01:27:58.000
leaving Mongolia, that's when they told us, actually,

01:27:58.000 --> 01:28:00.439
we didn't mean to send you guys to China. We

01:28:00.439 --> 01:28:02.399
just do that every time when you arrive here.

01:28:02.659 --> 01:28:04.840
And some people wind up killing themselves anyway.

01:28:08.970 --> 01:28:11.989
So eventually they let you go? Yeah, they did

01:28:11.989 --> 01:28:14.229
reach out to South Korean embassy, and then South

01:28:14.229 --> 01:28:16.510
Korean embassy comes, right, and they interrogate

01:28:16.510 --> 01:28:19.029
you to make sure that you're actually North Korean.

01:28:19.489 --> 01:28:22.649
So several months in Mongolia, we do different

01:28:22.649 --> 01:28:25.989
detention centers. They move us around and interrogate

01:28:25.989 --> 01:28:28.630
us, and when they confirm that we are North Koreans,

01:28:28.930 --> 01:28:32.609
that's when they give us a fake passport. And

01:28:32.609 --> 01:28:35.729
from Ulaanbaatar to South Korea, we flew there.

01:28:36.680 --> 01:28:40.220
And so when they determine that you're North

01:28:40.220 --> 01:28:42.880
Korean, what are they trying to find out? They're

01:28:42.880 --> 01:28:45.300
trying to find out if you're actually a refugee,

01:28:45.539 --> 01:28:48.960
if you're a spy. What are they trying to find

01:28:48.960 --> 01:28:52.899
out? So in China, there's a Korean ethnic Chinese

01:28:52.899 --> 01:28:56.819
who were Koreans back then, but they became Chinese,

01:28:57.119 --> 01:29:01.180
the ethnic Koreans. So China has 56 different

01:29:01.180 --> 01:29:04.430
ethnicities. It's a very diverse country, right?

01:29:04.590 --> 01:29:07.489
So one of them are Korean ethnic Chinese. So

01:29:07.489 --> 01:29:10.170
those people tried to go to South Korea. So they

01:29:10.170 --> 01:29:14.529
rule out those people and also spy. So they rule

01:29:14.529 --> 01:29:16.689
out everybody's defectors. When you escape, you

01:29:16.689 --> 01:29:19.069
become defector right away. So they rule out

01:29:19.069 --> 01:29:21.869
the spies and also rule out if you're actually

01:29:21.869 --> 01:29:25.010
North Korean or ethnic Chinese, ethnic Korean

01:29:25.010 --> 01:29:27.689
Chinese. So that's what they try to investigate

01:29:27.689 --> 01:29:32.579
you. And so... You finally, eventually get to

01:29:32.579 --> 01:29:36.020
South Korea. And then what happens? And then

01:29:36.020 --> 01:29:38.859
what happens? I hear about this thing called

01:29:38.859 --> 01:29:44.979
freedom. And then hear about this country is

01:29:44.979 --> 01:29:48.300
obsessed with competition and hard work and studying.

01:29:48.539 --> 01:29:52.640
The vigorous academia. that these kids study

01:29:52.640 --> 01:29:54.979
English when they're in their mother's tummy.

01:29:56.619 --> 01:30:00.479
Right. And they study like crazy people. Yeah.

01:30:00.619 --> 01:30:03.140
And then I'm like almost like, you know, high

01:30:03.140 --> 01:30:06.699
schooler. And they did a placement test on me.

01:30:06.739 --> 01:30:09.079
And I'm like, I need to go study with seven years

01:30:09.079 --> 01:30:12.180
old. I don't even know what continents are. Right.

01:30:12.199 --> 01:30:14.800
I don't even know what Africa is. Right. I don't

01:30:14.800 --> 01:30:17.340
even know what different races. I don't even

01:30:17.340 --> 01:30:21.529
know the map. I'm like blank page, like adult

01:30:21.529 --> 01:30:24.750
baby. Adult baby. Yeah. And how old are you?

01:30:24.949 --> 01:30:28.310
I was Korean age. I was 17. You were 17, but

01:30:28.310 --> 01:30:30.949
you're really about 10 years behind. Yeah. At

01:30:30.949 --> 01:30:33.029
least. At least, at least. That's what it is.

01:30:33.250 --> 01:30:36.029
And so what kind of education did they give you

01:30:36.029 --> 01:30:40.529
in South Korea? They told us that South Korea

01:30:40.529 --> 01:30:43.029
was a free country, that Americans are not bastards.

01:30:45.069 --> 01:30:48.430
Because they told the Americans were cold -blooded

01:30:48.430 --> 01:30:51.899
snakes. in North Korea so I remember one of my

01:30:51.899 --> 01:30:54.079
friend I took to South Korea she was a white

01:30:54.079 --> 01:30:57.460
lady my mom got drunk with soju and touching

01:30:57.460 --> 01:31:00.020
her right and then like I just want to make sure

01:31:00.020 --> 01:31:02.619
that you are like actually warm blooded because

01:31:02.619 --> 01:31:05.600
that's what they and in school we have a posters

01:31:05.600 --> 01:31:08.420
Americans posters because we don't have actual

01:31:08.420 --> 01:31:11.779
pictures of them So our enemy is Americans, right?

01:31:11.920 --> 01:31:14.300
They're like our sore enemy. So we got to know

01:31:14.300 --> 01:31:16.880
how they look like. So they are called the bloody,

01:31:17.000 --> 01:31:21.020
huge nose and blue eyes, green eyes, monsters.

01:31:23.720 --> 01:31:29.260
Wow. Yeah. So where did they educate you in South

01:31:29.260 --> 01:31:32.239
Korea? There's a re -education center. Oh, so

01:31:32.239 --> 01:31:34.159
they have a place where they take in people from

01:31:34.159 --> 01:31:37.819
North Korea? Yeah, for three months. So they

01:31:37.819 --> 01:31:42.020
take you to ATM machine. So we never had a bank

01:31:42.020 --> 01:31:45.020
in North Korea, right? Like in the past, I heard

01:31:45.020 --> 01:31:46.880
there was a bank, but regime asked you to put

01:31:46.880 --> 01:31:48.199
the money and they don't give the money back

01:31:48.199 --> 01:31:52.079
to you. So nobody uses bank in North Korea. So

01:31:52.079 --> 01:31:55.159
I literally thought ATM machine, there's somebody

01:31:55.159 --> 01:31:57.439
inside the machine handing the money out to you

01:31:57.439 --> 01:31:59.880
through the window because I don't know automation.

01:32:00.520 --> 01:32:04.069
And they teach you how to take a bus. How to

01:32:04.069 --> 01:32:06.510
even go to a movie theater to order a ticket

01:32:06.510 --> 01:32:08.409
because we've never seen the digital devices.

01:32:09.510 --> 01:32:12.630
How to take the elevator. What is an escalator?

01:32:13.710 --> 01:32:15.869
It's like you're just landing on a completely

01:32:15.869 --> 01:32:19.810
different planet. What is that like? Overwhelming.

01:32:20.170 --> 01:32:24.609
It's very... Having that choice, like when you

01:32:24.609 --> 01:32:27.010
go shopping and you have 10 different pants,

01:32:27.250 --> 01:32:29.369
right? And it's up to you to choose what you

01:32:29.369 --> 01:32:31.930
wear. And in North Korea, it was chosen by the

01:32:31.930 --> 01:32:35.779
regime. Freedom was difficult. I was literally

01:32:35.779 --> 01:32:39.279
saying if I had enough frozen potato, had at

01:32:39.279 --> 01:32:41.439
least minimum food to eat, I would go back to

01:32:41.439 --> 01:32:46.020
North Korea. Really? Yeah. Why? Because I was

01:32:46.020 --> 01:32:49.279
not used to thinking. Thinking was hard. Thinking

01:32:49.279 --> 01:32:52.939
was not something I'm used to. I never had to

01:32:52.939 --> 01:32:55.699
think. But not only that, you have to think for

01:32:55.699 --> 01:32:57.899
yourself. What do you want to do in your life?

01:32:58.180 --> 01:33:00.539
And I was like, do I have to know? Can't you

01:33:00.539 --> 01:33:02.840
just not tell me what I need to do? Because I'm

01:33:02.840 --> 01:33:04.739
so good at following the orders. But they go,

01:33:04.800 --> 01:33:06.520
like in South Korea, they were asking me, so

01:33:06.520 --> 01:33:09.359
what do you want to do? And what do you think?

01:33:09.779 --> 01:33:12.720
And what I thought never mattered. I couldn't

01:33:12.720 --> 01:33:17.659
believe what I think matters to you. So really

01:33:17.659 --> 01:33:20.060
thinking for yourself was very difficult. I would

01:33:20.060 --> 01:33:22.079
be so tired after thinking for five minutes.

01:33:22.119 --> 01:33:25.800
I would get exhausted all day. I literally get

01:33:25.800 --> 01:33:28.640
like, okay, working out with thinking is so hard.

01:33:28.699 --> 01:33:31.319
Like I would get so exhausted. How does people

01:33:31.319 --> 01:33:33.920
like keep thinking here all day long? They say

01:33:33.920 --> 01:33:35.739
the same thing happens to people when they get

01:33:35.739 --> 01:33:38.359
out of prison. Then when they get out of prison,

01:33:38.539 --> 01:33:41.140
they call it being institutionalized. When they

01:33:41.140 --> 01:33:43.140
get out of prison, they want to go back to prison.

01:33:43.300 --> 01:33:45.640
And oftentimes they'll commit crimes just so

01:33:45.640 --> 01:33:48.260
they can get arrested and go back to prison because

01:33:48.260 --> 01:33:50.800
in prison they're told what to do. Yeah. And

01:33:50.800 --> 01:33:53.359
they become accustomed to it. Yeah. That's what

01:33:53.359 --> 01:33:55.979
it felt like for you? Yeah. But for me, when

01:33:55.979 --> 01:34:00.500
I was born, that was my lifestyle. And thinking

01:34:00.500 --> 01:34:05.060
was not a natural thing. So a lot of North Koreans

01:34:05.060 --> 01:34:09.739
do have a hard time to adjust to freedom. When

01:34:09.739 --> 01:34:13.199
you first went to South Korea and you were able

01:34:13.199 --> 01:34:15.880
to eat whatever you wanted, what did you eat?

01:34:16.739 --> 01:34:20.319
Eggs. Eggs. Boiled eggs. That's what you wanted?

01:34:20.500 --> 01:34:23.420
Yeah, because even beef was too fancy. I did

01:34:23.420 --> 01:34:26.220
not know what cow was, right? You didn't know

01:34:26.220 --> 01:34:28.779
what a cow was? I never knew the milk came out

01:34:28.779 --> 01:34:32.420
of cow because I never had milk in my life. So

01:34:32.420 --> 01:34:35.380
all North Koreans, we know it's like chicken

01:34:35.380 --> 01:34:39.539
and eggs. So in North Korea, egg is the most

01:34:39.539 --> 01:34:43.260
fancy thing you can imagine. So I literally thought

01:34:43.260 --> 01:34:46.500
I could eat a bucket of eggs. Egg is the most

01:34:46.500 --> 01:34:49.239
fancy thing that you can imagine. Yeah. So in

01:34:49.239 --> 01:34:51.579
North Korea, we boiled eggs, and we're like,

01:34:51.600 --> 01:34:54.039
let me see actually how many I can eat, right?

01:34:54.159 --> 01:34:56.539
But after five, you cannot eat more than five

01:34:56.539 --> 01:35:00.399
boiled eggs. So that's when I realized, I mean,

01:35:00.399 --> 01:35:03.979
not that much it takes for me to full. How I

01:35:03.979 --> 01:35:06.859
wasn't able to do that in that country. So that

01:35:06.859 --> 01:35:09.020
was, do you remember the first time you ate until

01:35:09.020 --> 01:35:12.359
you were full? Yeah, in China. But the thing

01:35:12.359 --> 01:35:15.020
is, you think you're going to eat everything.

01:35:15.609 --> 01:35:17.970
is that in China, like, our stomach is not used

01:35:17.970 --> 01:35:22.470
to seasoning, like, oil or fat. So I was getting

01:35:22.470 --> 01:35:25.829
nauseous a lot. I couldn't, like, eat the normal

01:35:25.829 --> 01:35:30.449
food that Chinese, even South Koreans eat. Because,

01:35:30.470 --> 01:35:33.189
I mean, our system was eating without seasoning.

01:35:33.760 --> 01:35:38.460
Just all the wild plants and flowers and not

01:35:38.460 --> 01:35:41.920
much going on. So going to China, eating for

01:35:41.920 --> 01:35:44.739
the first time that was seasoned food was very

01:35:44.739 --> 01:35:48.600
hard on my stomach. And so it was actually not

01:35:48.600 --> 01:35:50.720
that great. You would think, oh my God, it's

01:35:50.720 --> 01:35:53.359
a paradise. Your system doesn't take a while

01:35:53.359 --> 01:35:56.600
for you to adjust to the new kind of food. How

01:35:56.600 --> 01:35:58.720
long did it take in South Korea before you...

01:35:59.079 --> 01:36:02.340
felt comfortable eating like hamburger i think

01:36:02.340 --> 01:36:06.380
yeah at least like two three years wow yeah it's

01:36:06.380 --> 01:36:09.039
uh two three years took me if not like getting

01:36:09.039 --> 01:36:11.020
used to coca -cola i literally thought some like

01:36:11.020 --> 01:36:13.600
fire was happening where i never had a bubble

01:36:13.600 --> 01:36:16.800
in my life so like learning about now champagne

01:36:16.800 --> 01:36:20.159
is like in the beginning i couldn't like what

01:36:20.159 --> 01:36:23.560
is going on in my mouth they're popping everywhere

01:36:25.069 --> 01:36:27.689
You'd never had anything carbonated. No. So it

01:36:27.689 --> 01:36:30.069
was like shocking. It hurts me in the beginning.

01:36:30.609 --> 01:36:33.010
It took a while. Now I drink a bit, a few sips

01:36:33.010 --> 01:36:36.229
of Coca -Cola, but I couldn't do it for a long

01:36:36.229 --> 01:36:37.930
time. I still don't drink sparkling water. I

01:36:37.930 --> 01:36:39.989
don't know why anybody does that to torture themselves.

01:36:41.850 --> 01:36:44.829
It's very painful. Really? In your throat, yeah.

01:36:45.050 --> 01:36:48.590
They're like pounding you with something. I don't

01:36:48.590 --> 01:36:52.529
know. Wow, that's crazy. What about alcohol?

01:36:53.739 --> 01:36:57.739
People make alcohol illegally from corn. In North

01:36:57.739 --> 01:37:00.840
Korea? Yeah. But they are like very... Moonshine?

01:37:00.960 --> 01:37:05.399
Like very strong? Very strong. And very thick

01:37:05.399 --> 01:37:07.939
and not diluted at all. Right, right. You get

01:37:07.939 --> 01:37:10.880
like the worst hangover from it. Yeah. That kind

01:37:10.880 --> 01:37:14.060
of alcohol to drink. I never knew what wine was.

01:37:14.279 --> 01:37:19.130
So I went to Napa with my mom last year. And

01:37:19.130 --> 01:37:20.949
they will keep telling us, what do you smell

01:37:20.949 --> 01:37:24.109
like? How do I know? Oh, they're so crazy with

01:37:24.109 --> 01:37:25.869
all that wine tasting stuff. I know. It's like,

01:37:25.890 --> 01:37:29.010
I just heard about wine. Right. Oh, they're saying

01:37:29.010 --> 01:37:31.869
it's hints of nutmeg. Yeah. And oak. Exactly,

01:37:31.890 --> 01:37:33.989
oak. Yeah. And they're smelling. Yeah, it's the

01:37:33.989 --> 01:37:36.510
strangest thing in the world. Yeah. For someone

01:37:36.510 --> 01:37:39.170
who's coming from North Korea to go to, that

01:37:39.170 --> 01:37:41.829
might be the polar opposite of North Korea, is

01:37:41.829 --> 01:37:44.550
a Napa wine testing. I don't know. I was like,

01:37:44.750 --> 01:37:47.250
and a lot of people tried to get me Burning Man.

01:37:48.560 --> 01:37:50.920
I wanted to take you to Burning Man. I saw some

01:37:50.920 --> 01:37:52.579
pictures. I was like, I don't think I'm ready

01:37:52.579 --> 01:37:57.600
for this. I might go crazy there. That's hilarious.

01:37:58.479 --> 01:38:01.460
That's hilarious. Burning Man. That might be

01:38:01.460 --> 01:38:03.520
the opposite. Well, there's probably like multiple

01:38:03.520 --> 01:38:06.800
polar opposites of North Korea, but Burning Man

01:38:06.800 --> 01:38:08.680
is probably one of them. But the fancy people

01:38:08.680 --> 01:38:11.159
of Napa, that's got to be up there. So somebody

01:38:11.159 --> 01:38:13.659
was treating me to this restaurant called Single

01:38:13.659 --> 01:38:17.880
Thread. single like the french laundry same restaurant

01:38:17.880 --> 01:38:21.800
and then they did those tour at their like a

01:38:21.800 --> 01:38:25.640
front yard farm they grow on their tomatoes and

01:38:25.640 --> 01:38:28.579
peppers and like my mom was like we've been eating

01:38:28.579 --> 01:38:31.899
this every day in north korea organic we did

01:38:31.899 --> 01:38:34.300
not know we were having like 500 hours a meal

01:38:34.300 --> 01:38:36.739
you know because here people keep telling us

01:38:36.739 --> 01:38:38.619
it's organic it's like everything was organic

01:38:38.619 --> 01:38:41.739
in our country like what i want is like big portion

01:38:42.590 --> 01:38:44.829
Right. But here, people are really obsessed with

01:38:44.829 --> 01:38:47.989
the North Korean lifestyle. So, yeah, my mom

01:38:47.989 --> 01:38:51.529
would never do this to me ever again. She's like,

01:38:51.649 --> 01:38:54.550
you're a torture. Don't ever do this to me. That's

01:38:54.550 --> 01:38:59.050
funny. That's funny. So, your experience in South

01:38:59.050 --> 01:39:02.449
Korea, they're educating you. Are you working?

01:39:02.649 --> 01:39:05.449
Do you start working? You're 17 years old, right?

01:39:05.550 --> 01:39:08.229
So, what did you do while you were there? So,

01:39:08.229 --> 01:39:14.050
I... I remember this interrogation man was asking

01:39:14.050 --> 01:39:16.390
me, so what are you going to do in South Korea?

01:39:16.590 --> 01:39:19.050
I was like, I don't know, maybe study because

01:39:19.050 --> 01:39:21.649
I'm still young. And he's like, why do you think

01:39:21.649 --> 01:39:24.670
you can study? Because he thought I was a hooker

01:39:24.670 --> 01:39:27.649
in China because all North Korean women are them.

01:39:28.310 --> 01:39:31.750
And a lot of North Korean women ending up doing

01:39:31.750 --> 01:39:34.329
the same thing in South Korea because they don't

01:39:34.329 --> 01:39:36.960
even know how to turn on the computer. They don't

01:39:36.960 --> 01:39:40.199
know even what Gmail is. Creating account online

01:39:40.199 --> 01:39:43.619
is impossibility for them who never grow out

01:39:43.619 --> 01:39:47.060
of it. So they cannot get like nice office jobs.

01:39:47.880 --> 01:39:51.199
Right. So only job they can take is like washing

01:39:51.199 --> 01:39:53.739
dishes. They cannot become even the waitress

01:39:53.739 --> 01:39:56.220
because we have an accent. And South Koreans

01:39:56.220 --> 01:39:58.779
are very racist. They discriminate people who

01:39:58.779 --> 01:40:00.680
have an accent. So they hear the North Korean

01:40:00.680 --> 01:40:02.840
accent? Yeah. What is the difference? Like what

01:40:02.840 --> 01:40:06.819
does it sound like? Like in South Korea we say

01:40:06.819 --> 01:40:09.800
안녕하세요 is a hi. But in North Korea it's 안녕하십니까.

01:40:10.239 --> 01:40:14.220
Very formal. More like we call our friends. There's

01:40:14.220 --> 01:40:17.500
no friends in North Korea. Comrades. Comrade.

01:40:17.600 --> 01:40:20.720
Only comrades exist. So they know by the way

01:40:20.720 --> 01:40:24.920
you talk? Yeah. But is it an accent? Are you

01:40:24.920 --> 01:40:27.060
saying the same words? No. You're saying them

01:40:27.060 --> 01:40:28.739
in a different way or using different words?

01:40:29.000 --> 01:40:31.380
Both of them different. It's a bigger difference

01:40:31.380 --> 01:40:34.159
than British and American English is that in

01:40:34.159 --> 01:40:37.039
North Korea, as I said, there's no bank. So for

01:40:37.039 --> 01:40:40.449
me to understand credit card. what the heck you

01:40:40.449 --> 01:40:43.170
build your credit. They give you money, you pay

01:40:43.170 --> 01:40:46.729
back and debit card. Right. Like saving. I mean,

01:40:46.729 --> 01:40:51.550
like for me to understand hedge fund, it took

01:40:51.550 --> 01:40:54.649
10 years. I still don't get a lot of parts, but

01:40:54.649 --> 01:40:56.970
that's the thing. Like we don't have the vocabulary.

01:40:57.050 --> 01:40:59.510
Right. So learning from South Korean to English

01:40:59.510 --> 01:41:01.949
are a lot easier because I know what credit cards

01:41:01.949 --> 01:41:05.029
in South Korea means and America means. But like

01:41:05.029 --> 01:41:07.890
gay, what is gay? You didn't know what gay was.

01:41:07.989 --> 01:41:09.449
Of course, there's no dictionaries. I remember

01:41:09.449 --> 01:41:12.270
in San Francisco a few years ago when I came

01:41:12.270 --> 01:41:15.229
to America, after my speech, somebody came and

01:41:15.229 --> 01:41:18.109
hugged me. And I got really stiffened because

01:41:18.109 --> 01:41:20.369
some guy was hugging me. And he said, don't worry,

01:41:20.430 --> 01:41:24.369
baby, I'm gay. Like, what the heck is gay? You

01:41:24.369 --> 01:41:26.850
didn't know what gay was? How old were you when

01:41:26.850 --> 01:41:30.409
this was happening? I was like 20, 20. Wow. So

01:41:30.409 --> 01:41:32.569
there was no gay people in North Korea? We don't

01:41:32.569 --> 01:41:35.369
know the word. So now tell me about the sexual

01:41:35.369 --> 01:41:38.350
non -binary, but like, whatever, how many pronouns

01:41:38.350 --> 01:41:40.989
that I found later. I was like, this is a different

01:41:40.989 --> 01:41:44.470
planet. Oh, wow. We don't know the concept. And

01:41:44.470 --> 01:41:46.289
we don't know the concept of romance or love.

01:41:46.909 --> 01:41:49.590
How do you expect us to know what gay is? How

01:41:49.590 --> 01:41:53.189
do people find their husbands and wives and relationships

01:41:53.189 --> 01:42:07.180
in North Korea? So the South Koreans are racist

01:42:07.180 --> 01:42:10.000
against the North Koreans, even though you look

01:42:10.000 --> 01:42:13.140
very similar. Can you tell a difference by looking

01:42:13.140 --> 01:42:15.279
at someone? Height difference. Height difference.

01:42:15.460 --> 01:42:18.140
Because of malnutrition. Yeah, on average, three

01:42:18.140 --> 01:42:21.220
to five inches shorter on average. But the younger

01:42:21.220 --> 01:42:23.800
generation in North Korea gets shorter. That's

01:42:23.800 --> 01:42:26.180
the thing. Our grandpa was the tallest, and my

01:42:26.180 --> 01:42:30.279
father and me. South Korea is the opposite. It

01:42:30.279 --> 01:42:32.359
keeps going up. And North Koreans keep getting

01:42:32.359 --> 01:42:35.420
smaller and smaller. So in South Korea, because

01:42:35.420 --> 01:42:40.920
of nutrition. And so when you are learning, where

01:42:40.920 --> 01:42:45.159
do they have you stay? I had to find this thing

01:42:45.159 --> 01:42:48.520
called a koshite, like a one -feet room where

01:42:48.520 --> 01:42:52.460
it's very cheap in Seoul. So I was working at

01:42:52.460 --> 01:42:55.180
this, like, Daiso. It's like a $1 store in Korea.

01:42:55.680 --> 01:42:59.420
So I was a teenager. American age, I was 15 years

01:42:59.420 --> 01:43:01.699
old. South Korea is a different way of counting

01:43:01.699 --> 01:43:05.000
age. So you're going to be confused. So in South

01:43:05.000 --> 01:43:07.420
Korea, North Korea, when you're born, the day

01:43:07.420 --> 01:43:09.600
you are born, you're one. You're one when you're

01:43:09.600 --> 01:43:12.520
born? Yeah. And then January 1st, you're two.

01:43:13.159 --> 01:43:16.199
So if somebody was born December 31st, they're

01:43:16.199 --> 01:43:18.600
one. Tomorrow, January 1st, they become two.

01:43:19.180 --> 01:43:21.479
Even when they're a baby? Yeah, they're two days

01:43:21.479 --> 01:43:24.279
old and they're two years old. Really? Yeah,

01:43:24.319 --> 01:43:26.779
so they count age like that. So when you're born,

01:43:27.039 --> 01:43:30.100
you're one, and you gain age not on your birthday.

01:43:30.239 --> 01:43:32.380
January 1st, you gain one year. This is only

01:43:32.380 --> 01:43:34.560
North Korea? And South Korea both. South Korea

01:43:34.560 --> 01:43:39.060
too? Really? Yeah. So if you're born in December,

01:43:39.420 --> 01:43:42.760
you're one years old, and then in January, you're

01:43:42.760 --> 01:43:44.680
two, even though you're only a month old. Yeah.

01:43:45.270 --> 01:43:48.390
Exactly. Wow. So I was born in October. So I

01:43:48.390 --> 01:43:51.649
was born, I was one. And then December, two months

01:43:51.649 --> 01:43:53.810
later, I became two years old. So you were two

01:43:53.810 --> 01:43:55.529
years old when you were two months old. Yeah.

01:43:55.550 --> 01:43:57.569
So even though you were 17, you were really 15.

01:43:57.729 --> 01:43:59.609
Yeah, so America, that's why there was some confusion

01:43:59.609 --> 01:44:01.470
when I was giving interviews in the beginning.

01:44:01.770 --> 01:44:04.050
When I escaped from North Korea, North Korean

01:44:04.050 --> 01:44:07.550
age, I was 15. So in South Korean press, I had

01:44:07.550 --> 01:44:10.779
to tell them Korean age. Right. Right? Then it

01:44:10.779 --> 01:44:13.819
translates to English article. So why I was 15

01:44:13.819 --> 01:44:17.380
and 13? Because the age counting is different.

01:44:17.739 --> 01:44:20.800
Oh. So I arrived there as American age, I was

01:44:20.800 --> 01:44:23.939
15. But South Korean age, I was 17 years old.

01:44:24.319 --> 01:44:28.060
Wow. Yeah. So you're really 15 years old American

01:44:28.060 --> 01:44:30.600
age. Yeah. And you are working in a dollar store.

01:44:30.800 --> 01:44:33.159
Yeah, the dollar store. And so you're supporting

01:44:33.159 --> 01:44:36.859
yourself? Yeah. And learning. Yeah. I taught

01:44:36.859 --> 01:44:41.460
myself. I took GED. So I crashed from one year

01:44:41.460 --> 01:44:44.060
to elementary, middle school, high school, everything

01:44:44.060 --> 01:44:47.920
within a year. So that's how I went to university

01:44:47.920 --> 01:44:51.279
when I was 17 years old, American age. Which

01:44:51.279 --> 01:44:55.159
is amazing because a lot of people here don't

01:44:55.159 --> 01:44:58.100
even go to university when they're 17. And they're

01:44:58.100 --> 01:45:00.899
studying their whole life under normal circumstances.

01:45:02.280 --> 01:45:05.199
But you were obsessed, right? Yeah. I was obsessed.

01:45:05.380 --> 01:45:07.439
You were obsessed. Like you had gotten to the

01:45:07.439 --> 01:45:10.539
point where you were malnourished because you

01:45:10.539 --> 01:45:12.279
weren't eating because all you were doing was

01:45:12.279 --> 01:45:15.420
studying. Yeah. I know. It's like I end up in

01:45:15.420 --> 01:45:17.619
the ER. Somebody called and there's like, you're

01:45:17.619 --> 01:45:22.420
malnourished. So I'm still like 79, like 80 pounds,

01:45:22.619 --> 01:45:25.539
but way smaller than this. So right now you're

01:45:25.539 --> 01:45:27.439
80 pounds. Yeah, yeah. But back then you were

01:45:27.439 --> 01:45:29.899
like. I didn't have the scale. It was too poor

01:45:29.899 --> 01:45:32.579
for the scale. But you weren't even thinking

01:45:32.579 --> 01:45:34.159
about food. You were just trying to learn. And

01:45:34.159 --> 01:45:38.159
the food was expensive. So it was, you know,

01:45:38.199 --> 01:45:40.260
in South Korea as a student working in a dollar

01:45:40.260 --> 01:45:42.699
store and studying, everything was expensive.

01:45:42.859 --> 01:45:45.779
So it was, you know, I couldn't really afford

01:45:45.779 --> 01:45:49.659
three meals a day, obviously. Right. Yeah. And

01:45:49.659 --> 01:45:52.720
so what were you studying and how were you doing

01:45:52.720 --> 01:45:56.840
it? I was doing the old school requirement project

01:45:56.840 --> 01:46:00.520
for GED, right? Biology, physics, math, English,

01:46:00.819 --> 01:46:03.720
history, all those writing everything. But on

01:46:03.720 --> 01:46:08.140
top of that, I was reading books. I read, like

01:46:08.140 --> 01:46:10.000
last year, I read like a few hundred books. But

01:46:10.000 --> 01:46:12.159
in South Korea, I was reading at least a hundred

01:46:12.159 --> 01:46:14.659
books outside of the school curriculum books

01:46:14.659 --> 01:46:18.029
that you require to read. So because I was, I

01:46:18.029 --> 01:46:20.310
mean, I did not know what Shakespeare is. How

01:46:20.310 --> 01:46:22.270
embarrassing is that? People talk about Romeo

01:46:22.270 --> 01:46:24.989
and Juliet. I'm like, who the heck is Romeo and

01:46:24.989 --> 01:46:28.149
Juliet? I remember I got to South Korea. This

01:46:28.149 --> 01:46:30.670
guy, somebody called Michael Jackson died, right?

01:46:31.869 --> 01:46:34.770
It's on TV and there's some funeral. Who the

01:46:34.770 --> 01:46:37.949
heck is Michael Jackson? And then sometime later,

01:46:38.069 --> 01:46:41.710
this guy called like Apple Steve Jobs died. And

01:46:41.710 --> 01:46:43.989
like, is that a big deal that Steve Jobs died?

01:46:44.270 --> 01:46:47.369
Who was it? Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs, oh. So I

01:46:47.369 --> 01:46:50.409
don't know who Steve Jobs is. Right. So like,

01:46:50.470 --> 01:46:53.069
that's amusing why these people are so upset.

01:46:55.090 --> 01:46:57.470
And like, obviously, there's like, some days

01:46:57.470 --> 01:47:00.289
later, Nelson Mandela dies. Who is Nelson Mandela,

01:47:00.390 --> 01:47:05.069
right? I don't know. It's so strange to be 15

01:47:05.069 --> 01:47:08.409
years old and learning about the whole world,

01:47:08.430 --> 01:47:11.489
not knowing anything that's happening in other

01:47:11.489 --> 01:47:13.529
countries, other continents, not knowing anything

01:47:13.529 --> 01:47:17.829
about pop stars and world leaders. No, I think

01:47:17.829 --> 01:47:21.180
that's so. There's a thing like when I came to

01:47:21.180 --> 01:47:24.500
America, I did not even know what Arab is or

01:47:24.500 --> 01:47:28.359
Hispanic is. I have no preconception of a race.

01:47:28.520 --> 01:47:31.100
So that was great. I don't know the difference.

01:47:31.539 --> 01:47:33.500
For me, it's like you guys are all strangers.

01:47:36.539 --> 01:47:41.090
So I remember I had a talk. charleston south

01:47:41.090 --> 01:47:43.470
carolina or north carolina i don't know charleston

01:47:43.470 --> 01:47:46.649
like in a room for the first time i like there

01:47:46.649 --> 01:47:49.390
and then like a thousand people all like white

01:47:49.390 --> 01:47:55.670
people and like they looked all the same i just

01:47:55.670 --> 01:47:57.970
couldn't believe they all look the same to me

01:47:57.970 --> 01:48:02.029
that's hilarious that's funny so one of the things

01:48:02.029 --> 01:48:04.550
that struck me is that you were so obsessed with

01:48:04.550 --> 01:48:07.569
learning that even when you went to sleep you

01:48:07.569 --> 01:48:11.380
would you would play like ted speeches yeah and

01:48:11.380 --> 01:48:16.960
i listened to a lot of your podcast did you yeah

01:48:16.960 --> 01:48:20.720
i'm sorry no it was wonderful this thought i

01:48:20.720 --> 01:48:23.220
mean even to this day english i learned even

01:48:23.220 --> 01:48:27.100
i was 21 like five years ago so it's still like

01:48:27.100 --> 01:48:30.779
struggle for me so you were listening to podcasts

01:48:30.779 --> 01:48:33.479
you were listening to npr you were listening

01:48:33.479 --> 01:48:38.060
to ted talks and What was it like for you to

01:48:38.060 --> 01:48:40.939
try to absorb all this information at such a

01:48:40.939 --> 01:48:46.779
frantic pace? It was, I mean, it's amazing. First

01:48:46.779 --> 01:48:49.720
of all, that you read whatever you want. Like

01:48:49.720 --> 01:48:52.479
the one point that changed me as a child was

01:48:52.479 --> 01:48:55.579
reading Georgia West Animal Farm. Yeah. That

01:48:55.579 --> 01:48:58.199
was random. Like I literally went up and then

01:48:58.199 --> 01:49:01.239
pick up the book, the thinnest book. And I thought,

01:49:01.279 --> 01:49:03.659
okay, it takes this time for me to finish it.

01:49:03.899 --> 01:49:07.239
And reading that book made everything sense to

01:49:07.239 --> 01:49:10.199
me because after North Korea, of course, I mean,

01:49:10.220 --> 01:49:12.859
learning what Subway is is challenging, right?

01:49:12.979 --> 01:49:15.220
Learning what hamburger is is like a learning

01:49:15.220 --> 01:49:18.159
experience. But learning how to trust again,

01:49:18.380 --> 01:49:21.199
I think that was the hardest thing. Obviously,

01:49:21.359 --> 01:49:25.140
I don't trust guys. I didn't, right? And not

01:49:25.140 --> 01:49:27.180
only that, like they say, everything that you

01:49:27.180 --> 01:49:30.880
believe in North Korea was a lie. They are dictators.

01:49:31.180 --> 01:49:33.140
They are not gods. They didn't love you. They

01:49:33.140 --> 01:49:35.659
are dictators. You've been lied to your entire

01:49:35.659 --> 01:49:38.880
life. And I was thinking, so how do I know what

01:49:38.880 --> 01:49:41.159
you're telling me is not a lie then? Right. That

01:49:41.159 --> 01:49:46.159
was so scary. How do I trust ever again? So only

01:49:46.159 --> 01:49:50.199
reading George Orwell's 1984 and the animal farm,

01:49:50.340 --> 01:49:52.520
that's when I understood what happened to my

01:49:52.520 --> 01:49:54.819
people. Then you understood double speak and

01:49:54.819 --> 01:49:59.779
propaganda. And then price of silence. the price

01:49:59.779 --> 01:50:03.600
of silence yeah that's when i knew i until that

01:50:03.600 --> 01:50:05.699
point i was blaming the dictator why did you

01:50:05.699 --> 01:50:09.060
do that to us but i was started thinking what

01:50:09.060 --> 01:50:12.300
all those people like my grandma she knew life

01:50:12.300 --> 01:50:16.590
before kim's she knew the alternative life In

01:50:16.590 --> 01:50:19.430
that animal, you see the revolution generation,

01:50:19.850 --> 01:50:22.529
then next, and the new ones don't even know what

01:50:22.529 --> 01:50:25.449
the world could be like. So that's the thing.

01:50:25.470 --> 01:50:28.270
When people say, why there's no revolution in

01:50:28.270 --> 01:50:30.689
North Korea, I'm like, how do you fight to be

01:50:30.689 --> 01:50:33.670
when you don't know you're a slave? It's impossible.

01:50:34.350 --> 01:50:36.430
And this is the thing. In America, everybody

01:50:36.430 --> 01:50:39.050
is talking about how they're oppressed systemically.

01:50:39.149 --> 01:50:41.289
I'm like, you know people in North Korea don't

01:50:41.289 --> 01:50:44.010
even know they're oppressed. If you know you're

01:50:44.010 --> 01:50:47.319
oppressed, you are not oppressed. Like not knowing

01:50:47.319 --> 01:50:49.979
is a true definition of oppression. Unfortunately,

01:50:50.319 --> 01:50:54.539
in this country, they've made oppression a valuable

01:50:54.539 --> 01:50:57.159
thing. Like if you can say that you're oppressed

01:50:57.159 --> 01:51:02.039
and people look for oppression that sometimes

01:51:02.039 --> 01:51:04.159
doesn't exist. For sure, there is oppression

01:51:04.159 --> 01:51:06.140
in this country. And for sure, there is racism

01:51:06.140 --> 01:51:08.460
in this country. But it's become a commodity.

01:51:08.659 --> 01:51:11.340
And it's become a commodity that you can claim.

01:51:11.579 --> 01:51:15.460
And you can use it. to bolster and fortify your

01:51:15.460 --> 01:51:18.260
personality and your personal status. It's a

01:51:18.260 --> 01:51:20.920
real problem. I know, like, I went to, right,

01:51:20.960 --> 01:51:23.340
after all of that, I ended up at Columbia University

01:51:23.340 --> 01:51:27.239
in New York. And as you can see, I love learning.

01:51:27.600 --> 01:51:30.659
I'm a very curious person, and I go there. And,

01:51:30.739 --> 01:51:34.380
like, truth doesn't matter. It all matters, your

01:51:34.380 --> 01:51:39.319
feelings, how you feel. Well, you caught Columbia

01:51:39.319 --> 01:51:41.640
University at a terrible time, right? Like what

01:51:41.640 --> 01:51:44.680
year was this? 2016, I joined after Trump became

01:51:44.680 --> 01:51:47.619
president. The worst time you could ever join,

01:51:47.720 --> 01:51:49.779
right? Because this is like political correctness

01:51:49.779 --> 01:51:53.239
at the peak of its frenzy. And also they feel

01:51:53.239 --> 01:51:55.479
justified because they feel they have this despot

01:51:55.479 --> 01:51:57.800
in the White House, this terrible person who's

01:51:57.800 --> 01:52:01.020
going to destroy. People of color and gay people

01:52:01.020 --> 01:52:04.739
and he's a this and a that and a homophobe and

01:52:04.739 --> 01:52:08.420
a racist and a sexist. And so everything that

01:52:08.420 --> 01:52:11.600
you can possibly do to stop a person like that

01:52:11.600 --> 01:52:15.239
must be justified, including distorting truth.

01:52:15.539 --> 01:52:21.979
Yeah. It was unbelievable. I couldn't believe

01:52:21.979 --> 01:52:25.560
it. I came out after four years later scared

01:52:25.560 --> 01:52:28.800
more than ever. What I say, like I was seeing

01:52:28.800 --> 01:52:33.020
myself censoring every day again. And it was

01:52:33.020 --> 01:52:36.279
like I never thought by America I had to go censor

01:52:36.279 --> 01:52:38.859
myself. What was it like the contrast between

01:52:38.859 --> 01:52:42.100
learning in South Korea and then learning at

01:52:42.100 --> 01:52:47.300
Columbia? So South Korea is like I was too little

01:52:47.300 --> 01:52:51.039
I knew about the world. So everything they told

01:52:51.039 --> 01:52:54.319
me was truth. Like everybody who I met was a

01:52:54.319 --> 01:52:56.500
teacher. Do you know what I mean? In South Korea,

01:52:56.579 --> 01:52:59.760
my knowledge was so little. I was like one year

01:52:59.760 --> 01:53:02.760
old, right? Everybody told me, do you know Africa?

01:53:02.979 --> 01:53:06.760
I mean, that's new. What's Africa? Do you know

01:53:06.760 --> 01:53:09.380
I've been to Australia? What is Australia? Right.

01:53:10.260 --> 01:53:12.979
That's new. So everybody was my teacher in South

01:53:12.979 --> 01:53:16.109
Korea. Right. So I never, like, questioned anybody.

01:53:16.369 --> 01:53:18.590
Just everybody was my teacher. Everything was

01:53:18.590 --> 01:53:20.470
new. Yeah, everything was new. And everybody

01:53:20.470 --> 01:53:23.630
taught me something new, for sure. And coming

01:53:23.630 --> 01:53:25.930
to America, it was a bit different because by

01:53:25.930 --> 01:53:28.770
then I read, like, a lot of books. And I was

01:53:28.770 --> 01:53:31.489
a bit advanced than when I was in South Korea.

01:53:31.989 --> 01:53:35.149
So now going to Colombia, I mean, as soon as

01:53:35.149 --> 01:53:37.649
I tell them my view, they say, oh, you're brainwashed.

01:53:38.140 --> 01:53:39.520
You're brainwashed. Yeah, that's the reason.

01:53:39.520 --> 01:53:41.020
They said you were brainwashed because of what?

01:53:41.060 --> 01:53:44.300
What was your perspective? So, like, my professor

01:53:44.300 --> 01:53:47.520
was arguing that, like, she was asking, so, how

01:53:47.520 --> 01:53:50.720
to, the sensitivity training, why you got to

01:53:50.720 --> 01:53:52.779
be sensitive to all findings, hidden oppression.

01:53:53.539 --> 01:53:55.539
And, like, what do you think about men holding

01:53:55.539 --> 01:53:58.500
a door for you? And I was thinking, okay, that's

01:53:58.500 --> 01:54:01.159
a sign of decency. Like, I hold a door for other

01:54:01.159 --> 01:54:03.899
people. Right. And she, no, that's a sign of

01:54:03.899 --> 01:54:05.979
toxic masculinity. That's, like, how to show

01:54:05.979 --> 01:54:09.420
you they're overpowering you. Holding a door

01:54:09.420 --> 01:54:11.460
open is overpowering. Yeah, it's a man when man

01:54:11.460 --> 01:54:13.359
does that. What kind of class was this? What

01:54:13.359 --> 01:54:17.800
was the subject? I took a junior or something.

01:54:17.960 --> 01:54:22.199
It was humanity class, of course. And then she

01:54:22.199 --> 01:54:24.079
was like, I told her, no, I think that's sign

01:54:24.079 --> 01:54:26.399
of distance. That's over, like you're brainwashed.

01:54:26.920 --> 01:54:30.420
You're brainwashed? Yeah. How rude is that? Well,

01:54:30.420 --> 01:54:32.659
I mean, for them, it's, I mean, that's the thing.

01:54:32.699 --> 01:54:35.920
Like for me, a safe place meant where you can.

01:54:36.779 --> 01:54:39.699
express your views right and especially in the

01:54:39.699 --> 01:54:42.300
universe you can be dumb right to search for

01:54:42.300 --> 01:54:46.180
truth but here in the name of safe space no other

01:54:46.180 --> 01:54:49.020
than the mainstream view you cannot have them

01:54:49.020 --> 01:54:52.489
but it's just so sad to me that there's such

01:54:52.489 --> 01:54:56.149
a lack of nuance because for sure some men will

01:54:56.149 --> 01:54:59.670
hold open a door for you because they want to

01:54:59.670 --> 01:55:01.329
pretend that they're stronger than you or they

01:55:01.329 --> 01:55:04.189
want to show you that they're better than you

01:55:04.189 --> 01:55:06.689
or they want to pretend they're being nice because

01:55:06.689 --> 01:55:08.609
they're trying to manipulate you yeah because

01:55:08.609 --> 01:55:12.539
there are people like that but also Some people

01:55:12.539 --> 01:55:14.619
who will open the door to be polite because they're

01:55:14.619 --> 01:55:17.899
nice. And to deny that is to deny reality and

01:55:17.899 --> 01:55:20.619
to deny nuance. And that's what's really scary

01:55:20.619 --> 01:55:24.760
is the sacrificing of nuance to promote a narrative

01:55:24.760 --> 01:55:29.119
that fits your needs. Exactly. I think if things

01:55:29.119 --> 01:55:32.300
are so complex, why humans do what is very complex.

01:55:32.380 --> 01:55:35.899
Yes. And they lose entire complexity. Right.

01:55:35.960 --> 01:55:39.300
And also seeing that how this thing called like

01:55:39.300 --> 01:55:42.439
white guilt. Yes. Or privilege was so new to

01:55:42.439 --> 01:55:45.100
me. It's like, how are you guilty for what your

01:55:45.100 --> 01:55:47.819
ancestors did? Right. That's exactly what North

01:55:47.819 --> 01:55:51.800
Koreans did to us. Exactly. And I was like, why?

01:55:52.000 --> 01:55:55.439
You didn't choose to be born as a white. I don't

01:55:55.439 --> 01:55:59.100
choose my birthplace. It's again the same thing.

01:55:59.140 --> 01:56:02.640
It's the commodity of accusations, of finding

01:56:02.640 --> 01:56:05.939
people that are guilty for no reason of their

01:56:05.939 --> 01:56:08.340
own. Yeah. and may be guilty and they don't even

01:56:08.340 --> 01:56:10.560
know it. Or maybe they have some hidden bias

01:56:10.560 --> 01:56:12.300
that they're not even aware of and they're going

01:56:12.300 --> 01:56:14.600
to search it out. And so you have these paranoid

01:56:14.600 --> 01:56:17.439
people who are like, oh my God, am I like secretly

01:56:17.439 --> 01:56:20.939
a bigot? Am I secretly a racist? And they'll

01:56:20.939 --> 01:56:24.119
reaffirm it with you. And then in order for you

01:56:24.119 --> 01:56:26.760
to get points, you have to say, I will do better.

01:56:26.920 --> 01:56:29.180
I'm going to find that I'm going to be not just

01:56:29.180 --> 01:56:32.500
not racist. I'm going to be anti -racist. And

01:56:32.500 --> 01:56:34.319
then they'll say, well, now you're a good ally.

01:56:34.579 --> 01:56:36.909
And it's just really strange. strange way of

01:56:36.909 --> 01:56:39.789
communicating and when we were complaining about

01:56:39.789 --> 01:56:42.189
it years ago people would say why are you complaining

01:56:42.189 --> 01:56:45.329
about this it's just a few random fringe people

01:56:45.329 --> 01:56:48.229
in universities and the people that i knew that

01:56:48.229 --> 01:56:50.670
were professors that were secretly terrified

01:56:50.670 --> 01:56:52.970
of this they would talk about it this is like

01:56:52.970 --> 01:56:54.850
before jordan peterson started talking about

01:56:54.850 --> 01:56:57.680
this openly When they would talk about this,

01:56:57.800 --> 01:57:00.039
they would get chastised by the people in the

01:57:00.039 --> 01:57:03.180
university. Because these people had a vested

01:57:03.180 --> 01:57:06.640
interest in continuing this sort of this type

01:57:06.640 --> 01:57:09.600
of thinking and behaving. And this was like they

01:57:09.600 --> 01:57:13.140
had gold in this. Like there was profit in this.

01:57:13.239 --> 01:57:16.520
There was some social brownie points in this.

01:57:16.619 --> 01:57:19.199
And they were going to continue to mine this

01:57:19.199 --> 01:57:22.239
vein of gold. And when everybody was stepping

01:57:22.239 --> 01:57:24.460
in and talking about the dangers of this, people

01:57:24.460 --> 01:57:27.250
were saying, no, no. You know, this is the future.

01:57:27.289 --> 01:57:29.789
This is progressive. This is all about love and

01:57:29.789 --> 01:57:32.430
trust and anti -racism and all this. And then

01:57:32.430 --> 01:57:34.750
the people that were scared of it, they were

01:57:34.750 --> 01:57:37.210
sort of silenced in the universities until it

01:57:37.210 --> 01:57:39.649
started trickling over into corporations. And

01:57:39.649 --> 01:57:41.090
then when it started trickling into corporations,

01:57:41.390 --> 01:57:43.890
people started getting genuinely scared. And

01:57:43.890 --> 01:57:46.189
now we're at a point where I think the dam is

01:57:46.189 --> 01:57:48.229
broken. And I don't know how they're ever going

01:57:48.229 --> 01:57:51.229
to put the genie back in the bottle, so to speak.

01:57:51.510 --> 01:57:54.810
I think that's the thing. Initially, I was thinking.

01:57:55.440 --> 01:57:57.920
Maybe only the academia is this crazy, right?

01:57:58.060 --> 01:58:01.760
I thought, but then last year I spoke at TED.

01:58:02.039 --> 01:58:05.460
And then these people who run social media companies

01:58:05.460 --> 01:58:07.899
like Facebook, Twitter, all these people come.

01:58:08.180 --> 01:58:10.359
And I told them I had an engagement in Texas.

01:58:11.119 --> 01:58:13.239
And they were saying, why do you go to Texas?

01:58:13.819 --> 01:58:16.460
I was like, well, because America is America.

01:58:17.239 --> 01:58:20.659
And I was like, that's a Trump country. I decided

01:58:20.659 --> 01:58:23.819
not to set a foot below a certain line of states

01:58:23.819 --> 01:58:28.060
that supports Trump. And these are the people

01:58:28.060 --> 01:58:31.600
who run the biggest media companies in the world.

01:58:31.939 --> 01:58:34.979
It's ridiculous. Especially ridiculous in a place

01:58:34.979 --> 01:58:38.140
like Austin, which is a progressive city. Yeah.

01:58:38.560 --> 01:58:42.319
And then last year during the looting in Chicago,

01:58:42.520 --> 01:58:47.220
I was robbed by these three black women. And

01:58:47.220 --> 01:58:50.100
robbing is okay. Anybody can become a murderer.

01:58:50.279 --> 01:58:53.180
Anybody can be a thief. But just there happened

01:58:53.180 --> 01:58:56.439
to be a black woman. And I have a nanny who is

01:58:56.439 --> 01:58:59.119
Muslim in the nation with a hijab carrying my

01:58:59.119 --> 01:59:03.119
stroller behind me. And then I was trying to

01:59:03.119 --> 01:59:04.939
catch and call the police and these people on

01:59:04.939 --> 01:59:07.199
the street, the bystanders, the white people,

01:59:07.300 --> 01:59:10.779
calling me I'm a racist, telling me that the

01:59:10.779 --> 01:59:14.020
color of skin doesn't make them a thief. Wait

01:59:14.020 --> 01:59:16.140
a minute, wait a minute. So you got robbed by

01:59:16.140 --> 01:59:18.819
these three black women. And I got punched. You

01:59:18.819 --> 01:59:22.220
got punched and robbed. Yeah. And so you called

01:59:22.220 --> 01:59:24.340
the police. I tried to call them and they prevented

01:59:24.340 --> 01:59:26.140
me from calling the police. Who was trying to

01:59:26.140 --> 01:59:27.979
tell you not to call the police? All the people

01:59:27.979 --> 01:59:29.840
on the street. That watched it? On the Michigan

01:59:29.840 --> 01:59:32.199
Avenue, yeah. People that saw the crime? Yeah.

01:59:32.880 --> 01:59:35.720
They said you're racist for calling the police?

01:59:35.920 --> 01:59:39.380
Yeah, and accusing these girls of being robbers,

01:59:39.539 --> 01:59:42.079
right? How does that make you a racist by accusing

01:59:42.079 --> 01:59:44.960
them of... Because I'm not black and they are

01:59:44.960 --> 01:59:48.479
black. So calling a black person a thief is a

01:59:48.479 --> 01:59:52.100
racist, even though they are a thief. So, of

01:59:52.100 --> 01:59:54.640
course, I got punched. I couldn't call the police.

01:59:54.720 --> 01:59:56.739
And later I called. Thankfully, these girls took

01:59:56.739 --> 02:00:00.039
my car to spend the money on the sex. And then

02:00:00.039 --> 02:00:02.340
police got the footage of them. Saks Fifth Avenue?

02:00:02.579 --> 02:00:05.479
Yeah, in Michigan Avenue in Chicago. And then,

02:00:05.539 --> 02:00:07.600
of course, they are not going to prosecute these

02:00:07.600 --> 02:00:09.800
girls. There's so much crime in Chicago. They

02:00:09.800 --> 02:00:11.899
are not going to prosecute somebody who robs.

02:00:12.890 --> 02:00:15.189
And that's when I was thinking, this country

02:00:15.189 --> 02:00:18.670
lost it. Like, even in North Korea, if you see

02:00:18.670 --> 02:00:21.229
somebody, one small girl, being robbed and being

02:00:21.229 --> 02:00:24.649
punched by three big girls, they're going to

02:00:24.649 --> 02:00:27.869
help the victim. They're not going to just out

02:00:27.869 --> 02:00:30.850
of nowhere scream at you, you're a racist. So

02:00:30.850 --> 02:00:33.770
they were screaming you were racist because of

02:00:33.770 --> 02:00:35.609
the phone call that you were making? No, because

02:00:35.609 --> 02:00:39.329
I held their arm. I told them, I'm not accusing

02:00:39.329 --> 02:00:41.189
you of anything. I'm just going to call the police.

02:00:41.250 --> 02:00:43.930
Can you wait here until the police comes? You

02:00:43.930 --> 02:00:46.069
were holding whose arm? The girl who robbed my

02:00:46.069 --> 02:00:49.250
wallet. Oh, so the girl who robbed your wallet,

02:00:49.310 --> 02:00:50.970
you were trying to hold on to her. Yeah, because

02:00:50.970 --> 02:00:53.970
she was trying to run. Okay. So I was trying

02:00:53.970 --> 02:00:57.010
to call the police. And then she was like, you're

02:00:57.010 --> 02:00:59.289
a racist. A skin of color person doesn't make

02:00:59.289 --> 02:01:03.390
me a thief. And then she was punching me here.

02:01:03.630 --> 02:01:05.510
And this is after she already robbed you. Yeah.

02:01:06.309 --> 02:01:10.069
Yeah. And then the people gathered. And I remember

02:01:10.069 --> 02:01:14.210
there's a bus station. There's one white mom

02:01:14.210 --> 02:01:18.270
with teenagers. And I became the lifetime example

02:01:18.270 --> 02:01:21.449
for her to show her children how racism exists

02:01:21.449 --> 02:01:24.550
in America. Like me became a bigot and calling

02:01:24.550 --> 02:01:27.239
these black girls a... thief so she didn't look

02:01:27.239 --> 02:01:29.659
at that kind of racist that's the problem that

02:01:29.659 --> 02:01:31.579
we how many people were around you it's like

02:01:31.579 --> 02:01:33.460
i don't know some 20 people and they were like

02:01:33.460 --> 02:01:36.000
20 people they're circling me around so i cannot

02:01:36.000 --> 02:01:37.939
call the police circling you and calling you

02:01:37.939 --> 02:01:40.560
a racist even though this girl just stole from

02:01:40.560 --> 02:01:43.199
you this girl still ran away and they let the

02:01:43.199 --> 02:01:46.220
girls run away yeah just go go run right they

02:01:46.220 --> 02:01:52.060
told the girls to run wow So that's why when

02:01:52.060 --> 02:01:54.520
I started speaking out and now I became the enemy

02:01:54.520 --> 02:01:58.260
of the woke. Enemy of the woke. I got the North

02:01:58.260 --> 02:02:00.960
Koreans going on. I became the Kim Jong -un's

02:02:00.960 --> 02:02:03.760
killing list a few years ago. And South Korean

02:02:03.760 --> 02:02:05.659
intelligence is like, you are on the kid's killing

02:02:05.659 --> 02:02:08.960
list, right? Oh, boy. And I'm like, cool. I expected

02:02:08.960 --> 02:02:12.199
that. And now I'm Chinese enemy, Chinese regimes.

02:02:12.460 --> 02:02:16.300
And now in America, I got so many enemies. Oh,

02:02:16.300 --> 02:02:22.619
boy. Jesus. Yeah. That's when you realize that

02:02:22.619 --> 02:02:25.100
this stuff spills over into real life, right?

02:02:25.220 --> 02:02:29.279
That's when I knew that my son is American. I

02:02:29.279 --> 02:02:32.819
have a son in America. And on his birth certificate

02:02:32.819 --> 02:02:36.460
in Chicago, like, father's birthplace, America,

02:02:36.579 --> 02:02:40.779
USA, and mom is North Korea. Like, on birth certificate,

02:02:40.859 --> 02:02:44.739
his mom is North Korean. And to me, giving him

02:02:44.739 --> 02:02:47.479
that American citizenship was bigger than winning

02:02:47.479 --> 02:02:50.329
the lottery. I thought I did everything I could

02:02:50.329 --> 02:02:52.649
to give him a better life, making him American.

02:02:53.569 --> 02:02:55.970
And seeing that last year in America, I was like,

02:02:56.090 --> 02:02:59.149
this is not a safe country. Because he got the

02:02:59.149 --> 02:03:03.289
worst. He got half Asian who wants to work hard

02:03:03.289 --> 02:03:06.130
and we believe in meritocracy. And he got half

02:03:06.130 --> 02:03:08.550
white who's supposedly oppressive because of

02:03:08.550 --> 02:03:14.310
their... So he's so screwed. His caste is so

02:03:14.310 --> 02:03:18.739
low right now. That's funny. That's funny. It's

02:03:18.739 --> 02:03:22.600
sad. It's truly sad. Unfortunately, in some circles

02:03:22.600 --> 02:03:25.239
it's true. I think there's a lot of people that

02:03:25.239 --> 02:03:29.100
are waking up to this problem. I hope so. There

02:03:29.100 --> 02:03:31.239
are. Yeah. And a lot of it is because of people

02:03:31.239 --> 02:03:34.520
like you speaking up from a place of true oppression

02:03:34.520 --> 02:03:37.220
like North Korea in comparison to what's going

02:03:37.220 --> 02:03:41.640
on here where these privileged weirdos are attempting

02:03:41.640 --> 02:03:43.859
to distort reality for their own personal gain

02:03:43.859 --> 02:03:46.529
because that's what it is. What do they gain

02:03:46.529 --> 02:03:48.949
from it? I don't get it. They gain social status.

02:03:49.250 --> 02:03:53.970
They gain status. If there's a narrative that's

02:03:53.970 --> 02:03:57.810
being pushed and they go along with it, people

02:03:57.810 --> 02:04:00.689
say, oh, you're on the right side. You're doing

02:04:00.689 --> 02:04:02.649
the right thing. You're saying the right words.

02:04:02.710 --> 02:04:05.609
If you go against it, they'll chase you down

02:04:05.609 --> 02:04:09.069
and yell at you. You will be on the outside.

02:04:09.189 --> 02:04:12.359
You'll be an outcast. People are cowards. They're

02:04:12.359 --> 02:04:14.399
terrified. Even if they know something is true,

02:04:14.560 --> 02:04:17.000
they're terrified of saying it because they don't

02:04:17.000 --> 02:04:20.039
want the blowback for it. So that's what a lot,

02:04:20.100 --> 02:04:22.340
you see a lot of that going on in this country.

02:04:23.000 --> 02:04:26.899
And you see a lot of people, unfortunately over

02:04:26.899 --> 02:04:29.640
this last year and a half because of the pandemic,

02:04:29.659 --> 02:04:32.600
you see a lot of people that are more than willing

02:04:32.600 --> 02:04:36.220
to sacrifice personal freedoms. in order for

02:04:36.220 --> 02:04:37.880
a little bit of safety and a little bit of security.

02:04:38.260 --> 02:04:41.180
And they'll give up those freedoms to the government,

02:04:41.399 --> 02:04:44.279
which will never give them back to you. When

02:04:44.279 --> 02:04:48.260
the pandemic is gone and you've given them vaccine

02:04:48.260 --> 02:04:52.000
passports and allowed them to track your whereabouts

02:04:52.000 --> 02:04:56.500
and allowed them to contact trace you. That's

02:04:56.500 --> 02:04:58.439
not going to go away. They're going to use it

02:04:58.439 --> 02:05:00.359
for other reasons. They're going to find other

02:05:00.359 --> 02:05:03.760
reasons to control you and keep you scared and

02:05:03.760 --> 02:05:07.640
keep you compliant so they can suck resources

02:05:07.640 --> 02:05:09.960
out of gigantic corporations that are funding

02:05:09.960 --> 02:05:12.560
their campaigns. That's what they're doing. And

02:05:12.560 --> 02:05:14.159
they're going to continue to do that if we let

02:05:14.159 --> 02:05:17.500
them. And we're going to slide further and further

02:05:17.500 --> 02:05:21.840
away from freedom and democracy, freedom and

02:05:21.840 --> 02:05:26.189
the ability to express yourself openly. And all

02:05:26.189 --> 02:05:29.409
of these things, people are willing to give up

02:05:29.409 --> 02:05:34.350
if it supports their side. And that's what's

02:05:34.350 --> 02:05:36.489
so terrifying. They don't understand. If you

02:05:36.489 --> 02:05:39.630
give the government vaccine passports and if

02:05:39.630 --> 02:05:42.470
you let them censor social media posts that you

02:05:42.470 --> 02:05:45.529
don't agree with, the problem is then what happens

02:05:45.529 --> 02:05:48.449
if someone who's far worse than Trump gets into

02:05:48.449 --> 02:05:51.329
office? Because that's... probably going to happen.

02:05:51.470 --> 02:05:53.989
Unfortunately, we're going to have this teeter

02:05:53.989 --> 02:05:56.989
-totter back. We've divided this country so thoroughly

02:05:56.989 --> 02:05:59.869
that there's going to be someone that's a far

02:05:59.869 --> 02:06:04.590
left person that makes people so angry that they're

02:06:04.590 --> 02:06:06.670
then willing to vote for a far right person.

02:06:06.829 --> 02:06:08.930
And when that far right person comes into office,

02:06:09.010 --> 02:06:11.590
they will have access to all of those powers

02:06:11.590 --> 02:06:15.670
that you so willingly gave up because you wanted

02:06:15.670 --> 02:06:19.409
to stop this idea that you didn't agree with.

02:06:19.840 --> 02:06:24.239
And they've done this in this horribly short

02:06:24.239 --> 02:06:28.020
-sighted way. And they've done it in the name

02:06:28.020 --> 02:06:31.439
of the woke. They've done it in the name of progressivism

02:06:31.439 --> 02:06:35.300
and wokeism and all this stupid shit that is

02:06:35.300 --> 02:06:39.279
this social contagion that's running through

02:06:39.279 --> 02:06:42.119
this country right now. It's like, to me, I've

02:06:42.119 --> 02:06:43.960
never been to an American public school system

02:06:43.960 --> 02:06:47.630
like onto universities. Like nothing has been

02:06:47.630 --> 02:06:50.770
more dangerous than governments to individuals,

02:06:51.130 --> 02:06:54.130
right? Right. Think of us. I mean, Mao killed

02:06:54.130 --> 02:06:57.229
60 million Chinese people. Right. Stalin, Hitler.

02:06:57.329 --> 02:07:01.710
They drive us to go to the war. And our biggest

02:07:01.710 --> 02:07:05.170
threat is governments. I mean, big governments.

02:07:05.449 --> 02:07:09.609
Yes. And it's so unbelievable how people still

02:07:09.609 --> 02:07:11.789
just keep wanting for someone to take care of

02:07:11.789 --> 02:07:15.109
things for them. People are scared and they get...

02:07:15.260 --> 02:07:18.739
They get delusional. They have this bizarre idea

02:07:18.739 --> 02:07:21.300
that someone's going to come along that has power,

02:07:21.420 --> 02:07:23.840
that's a benevolent dictator. It's going to take

02:07:23.840 --> 02:07:25.560
care of things in the right way. And you just

02:07:25.560 --> 02:07:28.060
give them the power. Give them the power to shut

02:07:28.060 --> 02:07:31.260
these people up. Freedom of speech, it's not

02:07:31.260 --> 02:07:33.899
the end all, be all. Maybe it's more important

02:07:33.899 --> 02:07:36.619
to just say what I want you to say. It's just

02:07:36.619 --> 02:07:39.979
strange. The short -sightedness is so strange

02:07:39.979 --> 02:07:43.270
because you hear people on... CNN, it's supposed

02:07:43.270 --> 02:07:46.829
to be the news, and they're espousing these ideas.

02:07:47.210 --> 02:07:50.270
And they don't recognize that if you give that

02:07:50.270 --> 02:07:53.050
power up to the people that are in charge currently,

02:07:53.270 --> 02:07:55.289
the next people are going to have it too. This

02:07:55.289 --> 02:07:56.970
was the thing about the Patriot Act that people

02:07:56.970 --> 02:07:58.970
were so terrified of in this country that were

02:07:58.970 --> 02:08:01.229
aware of the consequences. They were saying,

02:08:01.270 --> 02:08:03.810
well, Obama's never going to do this. Obama's

02:08:03.810 --> 02:08:05.789
not going to be in office forever. He's going

02:08:05.789 --> 02:08:07.770
to be in office for eight years. If you love

02:08:07.770 --> 02:08:10.060
Obama and you trust Obama, that's great. Look

02:08:10.060 --> 02:08:12.859
what came after Obama, Trump. And now you have

02:08:12.859 --> 02:08:14.779
a dead man. Now you have Joe Biden who doesn't

02:08:14.779 --> 02:08:16.340
know what the fuck is going on. What are you

02:08:16.340 --> 02:08:17.920
going to have after that? Well, you're probably

02:08:17.920 --> 02:08:19.979
going to have someone on the right. And it's

02:08:19.979 --> 02:08:22.880
going to be someone that is a reaction to what

02:08:22.880 --> 02:08:24.479
you have on the left. I mean, this is what we

02:08:24.479 --> 02:08:26.479
do in this country. We go left, right, left,

02:08:26.680 --> 02:08:28.619
right. And we pretend, well, this guy has our

02:08:28.619 --> 02:08:30.880
interest in mind. Oh, he fucked it up, too. Let's

02:08:30.880 --> 02:08:32.420
go with someone who's polar opposite. Oh, he

02:08:32.420 --> 02:08:34.600
fucked it up. And you give them eight years each

02:08:34.600 --> 02:08:37.619
side or four years each side. And it just keeps

02:08:37.619 --> 02:08:40.130
getting worse. And for whatever reason, people

02:08:40.130 --> 02:08:42.550
are constantly willing to give up powers. They're

02:08:42.550 --> 02:08:46.149
constantly willing to ignore the core principles

02:08:46.149 --> 02:08:48.010
that this country was founded on, which is freedom

02:08:48.010 --> 02:08:50.109
and liberty. And you need those things. You need

02:08:50.109 --> 02:08:53.010
to be able to express ideas and debate them in

02:08:53.010 --> 02:08:55.310
full view of the world so that we get to see

02:08:55.310 --> 02:08:57.590
whose ideas are correct and whose ideas are incorrect.

02:08:57.770 --> 02:09:01.130
But in this society and today. You have people

02:09:01.130 --> 02:09:03.189
on the left, which are supposed to be the progressive

02:09:03.189 --> 02:09:05.130
people, the open -minded and intelligent people,

02:09:05.289 --> 02:09:08.670
supposedly, the people that are educated, supposedly,

02:09:08.810 --> 02:09:10.810
and they're the ones who are willing to censor

02:09:10.810 --> 02:09:13.770
people. It's bizarre. It's very, very strange.

02:09:13.989 --> 02:09:19.130
Very strange. I'm not a Christian, but one day

02:09:19.130 --> 02:09:22.609
I was asking if there's God. He says everything

02:09:22.609 --> 02:09:25.630
happens for a reason. Why does North Korea exist?

02:09:26.109 --> 02:09:31.069
It makes no sense. Why does it exist? Why does

02:09:31.069 --> 02:09:33.729
China exist? Or why does the Communist Party,

02:09:33.810 --> 02:09:35.930
I should say, exist? Why do they have the power

02:09:35.930 --> 02:09:38.590
to run the country that way? It's because of

02:09:38.590 --> 02:09:41.609
that delusion, ignorance in the people to not

02:09:41.609 --> 02:09:46.090
learn from history. I don't know, do you think,

02:09:46.170 --> 02:09:49.210
do we have hope in this country? Or how do we

02:09:49.210 --> 02:09:52.229
get out of even this? I'm worried. I'm worried

02:09:52.229 --> 02:09:55.670
because it just seems to be sliding further and

02:09:55.670 --> 02:09:58.229
further in this direction of totalitarianism.

02:09:58.250 --> 02:10:01.590
And these people are willingly giving up these

02:10:01.590 --> 02:10:07.270
rights because they believe that that's going

02:10:07.270 --> 02:10:10.069
to support their side. And they think they're

02:10:10.069 --> 02:10:11.489
on the right side of history. They're on the

02:10:11.489 --> 02:10:12.829
right side of the truth. They're on the right

02:10:12.829 --> 02:10:16.489
side of facts and kindness and anti -racism.

02:10:16.489 --> 02:10:22.529
Whatever concepts that they are willing to subscribe

02:10:22.529 --> 02:10:26.250
to that they think that giving up these rights

02:10:26.250 --> 02:10:29.949
will promote. It's strange. It's very strange

02:10:29.949 --> 02:10:37.199
because it's an anti - It's an anti -objective

02:10:37.199 --> 02:10:39.899
perspective. They're not looking at all of the...

02:10:39.899 --> 02:10:42.039
And we're so polarized with the right and the

02:10:42.039 --> 02:10:44.340
left in this country. We're so polarized with

02:10:44.340 --> 02:10:46.220
Republicans versus Democrats in this country

02:10:46.220 --> 02:10:49.180
that there's no middle ground anymore. The center

02:10:49.180 --> 02:10:52.180
is this weird place where no one wants to exist

02:10:52.180 --> 02:10:53.939
because they don't want to be attacked by people

02:10:53.939 --> 02:10:56.029
on either side. Particularly the people on the

02:10:56.029 --> 02:10:59.010
left. It was funny the other day when I was after

02:10:59.010 --> 02:11:02.430
Jordan Peterson interview about he out of nowhere

02:11:02.430 --> 02:11:04.789
like randomly asked how did you like Columbia?

02:11:05.029 --> 02:11:08.539
And I was like it was terrible. And then... that

02:11:08.539 --> 02:11:10.359
wasn't we never discussed that we were going

02:11:10.359 --> 02:11:13.420
to talk about that and then fox asked to ask

02:11:13.420 --> 02:11:16.380
me to have an interview about it so i did but

02:11:16.380 --> 02:11:20.359
then all my friends in the like liberal why did

02:11:20.359 --> 02:11:22.939
you have to go on propaganda channel fox to talk

02:11:22.939 --> 02:11:25.380
about the work culture in america and i was like

02:11:25.380 --> 02:11:27.539
i'm still waiting a call from new york times

02:11:27.539 --> 02:11:31.079
if they call me about workism in this country

02:11:31.079 --> 02:11:33.630
and danger of it i'm going to talk to them Wait

02:11:33.630 --> 02:11:34.949
a minute, the New York Times never called you?

02:11:35.109 --> 02:11:37.710
I mean, they only called me when I was criticizing

02:11:37.710 --> 02:11:40.850
Trump about meeting Kim Jong -un without preconceptions.

02:11:42.010 --> 02:11:44.189
They never wanted to talk to you about your experience

02:11:44.189 --> 02:11:46.770
in North Korea? No. Only when I was talking about

02:11:46.770 --> 02:11:49.770
Trump, they wanted me. Who has tried to talk

02:11:49.770 --> 02:11:55.430
to you about this? Some British newspapers still

02:11:55.430 --> 02:11:58.489
do, like Daily Telegraph. They still do want

02:11:58.489 --> 02:12:00.729
me to talk about China. But whenever in American

02:12:00.729 --> 02:12:04.750
media... It's whenever I talk against Trump,

02:12:04.850 --> 02:12:07.649
that's when I meet their narrative. Really? Yeah.

02:12:07.810 --> 02:12:09.329
That's the only time they want to talk to you?

02:12:09.409 --> 02:12:12.229
Yeah. So that's the thing. But the thing is,

02:12:12.390 --> 02:12:15.930
Fox never accused me, why did you get on New

02:12:15.930 --> 02:12:17.729
York Times and criticizing Trump? Therefore,

02:12:17.850 --> 02:12:20.489
we don't want you. But the people in the liberal

02:12:20.489 --> 02:12:23.810
mainstream media, why did you get on Fox? So

02:12:23.810 --> 02:12:26.670
I'm like, they are people too. They are both

02:12:26.670 --> 02:12:31.350
newspapers. So it is unbelievable. I just...

02:12:31.529 --> 02:12:34.649
There's a big thing that's happening now where

02:12:34.649 --> 02:12:38.010
liberal people who are saying things that are

02:12:38.010 --> 02:12:41.189
outside of the narrative that you hear from CNN

02:12:41.189 --> 02:12:44.390
or MSNBC, they're going on like the Tucker Carlson

02:12:44.390 --> 02:12:47.340
show and people are furious at them. Yeah. But

02:12:47.340 --> 02:12:50.079
they're saying all the same things that they

02:12:50.079 --> 02:12:53.600
would say on MSNBC or CNN. They're not saying

02:12:53.600 --> 02:12:56.140
right -wing talking points. No. They're saying

02:12:56.140 --> 02:12:58.119
things that they believe in, whether it's Glenn

02:12:58.119 --> 02:13:01.020
Greenwald or Brett Weinstein or whoever these

02:13:01.020 --> 02:13:03.500
people are that go on these shows and talk. These

02:13:03.500 --> 02:13:05.359
are progressive people. Yeah. But they're being

02:13:05.359 --> 02:13:08.380
chastised. Yes. And they're being attacked. It's

02:13:08.380 --> 02:13:11.960
very strange. It's really dark. I'm happy to

02:13:11.960 --> 02:13:14.760
talk to anybody. I want to go on CNN and talk

02:13:14.760 --> 02:13:16.619
about this. But they just don't give me. your

02:13:16.619 --> 02:13:18.979
platform to talk about it they don't just call

02:13:18.979 --> 02:13:21.619
me well it's in support of this narrative that's

02:13:21.619 --> 02:13:25.380
occurring now where it's okay to air quotes de

02:13:25.380 --> 02:13:28.779
-platform people this is the idea you're de -platforming

02:13:28.779 --> 02:13:30.899
people off social media that say things you don't

02:13:30.899 --> 02:13:33.279
agree with like alex berenson who used to work

02:13:33.279 --> 02:13:35.800
for the new york times he's critical of the way

02:13:35.800 --> 02:13:38.819
the government and the fda and everyone is handling

02:13:38.819 --> 02:13:41.859
covet right or the cdc or the world health organization

02:13:41.859 --> 02:13:45.439
and so he's got a lot of stuff that he talks

02:13:45.439 --> 02:13:47.340
that's critical about the COVID response in this

02:13:47.340 --> 02:13:49.579
country, critical about the vaccine effectiveness,

02:13:50.680 --> 02:13:52.939
critical about all sorts of different things

02:13:52.939 --> 02:13:55.260
in the healthcare system. And they removed him

02:13:55.260 --> 02:13:57.500
from Twitter for a week. Yeah. And he's not,

02:13:57.640 --> 02:13:59.859
I mean, they removed him from Twitter recently

02:13:59.859 --> 02:14:06.659
for discussing the actual CDC's reports on the

02:14:06.659 --> 02:14:08.859
effectiveness and ineffectiveness or whatever

02:14:08.859 --> 02:14:13.409
on COVID vaccines. It's very strange, you know,

02:14:13.409 --> 02:14:16.390
and you can't mean maybe they think he speaks

02:14:16.390 --> 02:14:20.029
in a way that's inflammatory or in a way that's

02:14:20.029 --> 02:14:23.569
causing people to distrust certain institutions.

02:14:24.759 --> 02:14:28.100
Then oppose him. Oppose him. Debate him. The

02:14:28.100 --> 02:14:30.819
way to answer speech that you don't agree with

02:14:30.819 --> 02:14:34.180
is to counter it with what you think is a more

02:14:34.180 --> 02:14:37.199
sound argument. It's not remove someone from

02:14:37.199 --> 02:14:39.899
social media. But everyone's like, yes, he should

02:14:39.899 --> 02:14:42.279
be deplatformed. You see people from the left

02:14:42.279 --> 02:14:45.710
just calling out. Willingly calling out for censorship.

02:14:45.909 --> 02:14:49.789
It's a disturbing trend. And I don't think they

02:14:49.789 --> 02:14:51.689
understand that it's going to come for them.

02:14:51.770 --> 02:14:55.609
Because censorship is a monster that is never

02:14:55.609 --> 02:14:59.369
full. And it's going to come for you. It's going

02:14:59.369 --> 02:15:02.250
to find, it's going to keep pushing the boundaries

02:15:02.250 --> 02:15:05.029
and go further and further left until you can't

02:15:05.029 --> 02:15:06.909
be woke enough. And then it's going to come for

02:15:06.909 --> 02:15:10.380
you. Exactly. I think he does. In North Korea,

02:15:10.460 --> 02:15:14.220
even though one top janitor in the meeting a

02:15:14.220 --> 02:15:16.779
few years ago, he was falling asleep, and that

02:15:16.779 --> 02:15:20.500
afternoon he got executed. And this guy was working

02:15:20.500 --> 02:15:22.899
for this system his entire life to support the

02:15:22.899 --> 02:15:27.520
system. But he was tired. Yeah. And his uncle,

02:15:27.640 --> 02:15:30.779
right, did everything to make Kim Jong -un to

02:15:30.779 --> 02:15:33.579
succeed the line and be secure. He got executed.

02:15:34.400 --> 02:15:37.000
Was the uncle, did they think that the uncle

02:15:37.000 --> 02:15:39.279
was planning to overthrow Kim Jong -un? No, that

02:15:39.279 --> 02:15:40.920
was an accusation. It was just an accusation.

02:15:40.920 --> 02:15:44.619
Was it true? No, it wasn't. So it was every time

02:15:44.619 --> 02:15:47.079
when they do it, like that thing, they get killed.

02:15:47.260 --> 02:15:49.359
What was the thing that happened recently where

02:15:49.359 --> 02:15:52.199
Kim Jong -un was missing and they said that they

02:15:52.199 --> 02:15:55.359
thought he was sick? Was that a trap? No, it

02:15:55.359 --> 02:15:59.939
was CNN got some source from CIA saying Kim Jong

02:15:59.939 --> 02:16:02.560
-un was having some surgery and he was gone away

02:16:02.560 --> 02:16:05.359
for like a long time, disappeared and didn't

02:16:05.359 --> 02:16:08.359
show up in the very important meetings. And Kim

02:16:08.359 --> 02:16:10.779
Jong -un does have health issues at this point.

02:16:10.960 --> 02:16:13.319
What kind of health issues? I mean, he's over

02:16:13.319 --> 02:16:18.319
330 pounds and he's like 5 '7". And he gained

02:16:18.319 --> 02:16:22.619
weight very rapidly. And he drinks like 13 bottles

02:16:22.619 --> 02:16:25.899
of wine like a night. Wow. And he has insane

02:16:25.899 --> 02:16:28.619
parties every single day. So he's not healthy.

02:16:29.039 --> 02:16:33.100
He does not know how to control himself. So recently

02:16:33.100 --> 02:16:35.520
Kim Jong -un lost weight dramatically in one

02:16:35.520 --> 02:16:38.159
month. But people say that's like, oh, is he

02:16:38.159 --> 02:16:40.420
becoming healthy? No, he just became very, very

02:16:40.420 --> 02:16:43.959
ill. So they are preparing who's going to succeed

02:16:43.959 --> 02:16:47.479
him afterwards now already. How old is he? He's

02:16:47.479 --> 02:16:50.680
36. In Korean years or American years? American

02:16:50.680 --> 02:16:57.520
years, I believe. Good. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. But

02:16:57.520 --> 02:17:00.360
it doesn't seem like there's any hope for North

02:17:00.360 --> 02:17:02.239
Korea to get out of their current situation.

02:17:02.639 --> 02:17:05.559
As long as China, the CCP is there, it's not

02:17:05.559 --> 02:17:08.200
going to be out. And whoever gets in next is

02:17:08.200 --> 02:17:12.129
China maintained exactly the same thing. So without

02:17:12.129 --> 02:17:14.950
changing Chinese Communist Party, we never get

02:17:14.950 --> 02:17:17.389
to change North Korea. But what's crazy is the

02:17:17.389 --> 02:17:20.170
Chinese Communist Party has recognized that they

02:17:20.170 --> 02:17:22.389
had a flaw in their own system, and they allowed

02:17:22.389 --> 02:17:25.129
free market to run through China, and it's only

02:17:25.129 --> 02:17:28.090
made China stronger. But that's the thing also.

02:17:28.329 --> 02:17:30.250
We thought economic freedom was going to bring

02:17:30.250 --> 02:17:32.590
the political freedom, but that's the unique

02:17:32.590 --> 02:17:35.079
thing about freedom. Unless you fight for it,

02:17:35.139 --> 02:17:37.479
you don't get it. Right. They don't have political

02:17:37.479 --> 02:17:39.959
freedom. Like right now, the censorship, the

02:17:39.959 --> 02:17:42.959
social credit system. If you don't have the highest

02:17:42.959 --> 02:17:45.360
credit, you can't even buy a bus ticket to see

02:17:45.360 --> 02:17:47.639
your mom in the countryside. Right. You can't

02:17:47.639 --> 02:17:50.059
even get on the airplane and bus and public transportation.

02:17:50.520 --> 02:17:53.040
Well, that's what comes next after vaccine passports.

02:17:53.059 --> 02:17:55.200
Yeah. It's like what you say on social media.

02:17:55.360 --> 02:17:57.079
They're going to read your text like what China

02:17:57.079 --> 02:17:59.680
does already and give you the social credit and

02:17:59.680 --> 02:18:03.670
people rate you. you are forever controlled i

02:18:03.670 --> 02:18:06.469
think to me is that this is the last time that

02:18:06.469 --> 02:18:09.290
humanity ever tried to be free as individuals

02:18:09.290 --> 02:18:13.870
and i mean being individual is such a unique

02:18:13.870 --> 02:18:15.870
thing to me like that i can be different than

02:18:15.870 --> 02:18:19.790
you right it's the people talking about like

02:18:19.790 --> 02:18:22.469
oh the comparing the biggest difference that

02:18:22.469 --> 02:18:24.649
people have between individuals like the difference

02:18:24.649 --> 02:18:27.889
you and i have is unthinkable right and difference

02:18:27.889 --> 02:18:30.729
that i have with my mom is unthinkable That's

02:18:30.729 --> 02:18:32.770
the beauty of America, that you can be different.

02:18:33.049 --> 02:18:35.870
You can be an individual. But now you cannot

02:18:35.870 --> 02:18:37.709
be an individual, and that's what North Korea

02:18:37.709 --> 02:18:40.909
did. So when the North Korean regime criticized

02:18:40.909 --> 02:18:44.709
me, they said she was, as a young girl, very

02:18:44.709 --> 02:18:47.870
individualistic and ambitious. That's hilarious.

02:18:48.090 --> 02:18:49.930
That was the worst thing that came up. Because

02:18:49.930 --> 02:18:51.649
in North Korea, that's the worst tradition to

02:18:51.649 --> 02:18:54.409
give somebody. So they did not know that thing

02:18:54.409 --> 02:18:56.889
was embraced here. So North Korean propaganda

02:18:56.889 --> 02:18:59.110
channel on YouTube, you can see they say, and

02:18:59.110 --> 02:19:01.590
this is another amazing thing about YouTube is

02:19:01.590 --> 02:19:04.809
that I talk about women getting sold in China.

02:19:05.549 --> 02:19:08.989
And those old videos get demonetized. Because,

02:19:09.030 --> 02:19:12.110
I mean, it somehow doesn't meet the YouTube guideline.

02:19:12.840 --> 02:19:15.440
And they letting North Korean regime to have

02:19:15.440 --> 02:19:18.940
their propaganda channel on YouTube. So they

02:19:18.940 --> 02:19:22.059
give a platform to dictatorship. But they do

02:19:22.059 --> 02:19:24.059
not want to give a platform to the people who

02:19:24.059 --> 02:19:28.020
is fighting the civil rights justice fight. And

02:19:28.020 --> 02:19:30.799
this is a thing like one video I made about the

02:19:30.799 --> 02:19:32.819
Second Amendment. It was like my thoughts on

02:19:32.819 --> 02:19:35.360
second. I thought like if every Hong Konger had

02:19:35.360 --> 02:19:38.120
a gun in their hands. Chinese would not take

02:19:38.120 --> 02:19:40.340
them over like that. 75 % of the population went

02:19:40.340 --> 02:19:42.479
on the street demanding they want to be independent.

02:19:43.340 --> 02:19:45.979
One country, two systems. They wanted that. But

02:19:45.979 --> 02:19:48.000
China took it over because these people did not

02:19:48.000 --> 02:19:51.239
have any self -defense. Imagine North Korea.

02:19:51.319 --> 02:19:55.020
Even if 20 % of the population had guns, we would

02:19:55.020 --> 02:19:56.959
assassinate them. We would not let our children

02:19:56.959 --> 02:20:02.110
die like that. So to me, you can't... have crimes

02:20:02.110 --> 02:20:04.590
with the guns accidents happens but it's very

02:20:04.590 --> 02:20:07.350
important when people have a ability to defend

02:20:07.350 --> 02:20:08.989
themselves from the governments when they become

02:20:08.989 --> 02:20:11.909
corrupt and of course sharing this is just one

02:20:11.909 --> 02:20:16.030
perspective you get like blocked right so this

02:20:16.030 --> 02:20:18.969
is a country that i am in now i have to fight

02:20:18.969 --> 02:20:22.030
for freedom of speech in america and i thought

02:20:22.030 --> 02:20:25.430
my journey to be freedom ended coming here but

02:20:25.430 --> 02:20:28.540
of course not no not even yeah The Second Amendment

02:20:28.540 --> 02:20:30.180
is a very contentious thing in this country.

02:20:30.260 --> 02:20:31.959
And one of the interesting things about it is

02:20:31.959 --> 02:20:34.659
that people always want to cite mass shootings.

02:20:34.819 --> 02:20:37.120
But what they don't want to talk about with mass

02:20:37.120 --> 02:20:39.559
shootings is pharmaceutical companies. They don't

02:20:39.559 --> 02:20:42.479
want to talk about the fact that most, I mean

02:20:42.479 --> 02:20:45.479
most, of the people that are committing mass

02:20:45.479 --> 02:20:48.299
shootings are on some kind of psychotropic drugs.

02:20:48.819 --> 02:20:52.559
Most of them. And they want to conveniently ignore

02:20:52.559 --> 02:20:56.000
that. Whether they're disassociatives or SSRIs

02:20:56.000 --> 02:20:58.559
or anti -anxiety medication or anti -psychotic

02:20:58.559 --> 02:21:00.879
medication. And it doesn't mean that that medication

02:21:00.879 --> 02:21:04.159
is causing them to do that. But they don't even

02:21:04.159 --> 02:21:06.020
want to address it. It never even gets discussed.

02:21:06.079 --> 02:21:08.000
The only thing that gets discussed is the actual

02:21:08.000 --> 02:21:11.500
weapon itself. The ability to do that is so beyond

02:21:11.500 --> 02:21:14.680
most people. The ability to kill random strangers

02:21:14.680 --> 02:21:17.760
just in horrific acts of violence. Most people

02:21:17.760 --> 02:21:22.959
are not capable of doing that. Most people want

02:21:22.959 --> 02:21:24.860
the ability to defend their family if someone's

02:21:24.860 --> 02:21:26.100
trying to break into their home and kill them

02:21:26.100 --> 02:21:29.840
or steal from them or kidnap a child or whatever

02:21:29.840 --> 02:21:32.760
it is. When you see what's going on right now

02:21:32.760 --> 02:21:36.219
in Australia, Australia confiscated all of their

02:21:36.219 --> 02:21:40.219
guns in the 1990s. Right. And I'm not saying

02:21:40.219 --> 02:21:41.799
that they should raise up against the government,

02:21:41.879 --> 02:21:44.739
but there's some crazy shit going on right now

02:21:44.739 --> 02:21:46.420
where the army is trying to keep people inside

02:21:46.420 --> 02:21:49.600
in Australia. And one of the things that I read.

02:21:50.200 --> 02:21:52.659
was that as they're doing this, only nine people

02:21:52.659 --> 02:21:56.059
have died from COVID. Yeah. See if that's true.

02:21:56.159 --> 02:21:58.079
How many people have died recently from COVID

02:21:58.079 --> 02:22:00.860
in Australia? Because they have full -on government

02:22:00.860 --> 02:22:03.540
lockdowns where the government is flying helicopters

02:22:03.540 --> 02:22:05.979
over streets and go back indoors. You're not

02:22:05.979 --> 02:22:08.879
allowed to be outside, which is crazy. It's like

02:22:08.879 --> 02:22:11.520
this disease doesn't even transmit well outside.

02:22:11.780 --> 02:22:13.760
It doesn't make any sense. Being outside and

02:22:13.760 --> 02:22:15.959
getting vitamin D from the sun is probably one

02:22:15.959 --> 02:22:18.329
of the best things you can do. Exactly. I mean,

02:22:18.350 --> 02:22:20.870
like, the babies that born last year during the

02:22:20.870 --> 02:22:23.629
pandemic, like, my son is, like, three over three.

02:22:23.850 --> 02:22:26.530
They didn't go outside the house for a year and

02:22:26.530 --> 02:22:29.610
a half. Right. And I told their mom, your baby

02:22:29.610 --> 02:22:32.370
might die from not getting a son once even in

02:22:32.370 --> 02:22:35.409
their life than getting a COVID and die. Right.

02:22:35.469 --> 02:22:38.190
It's not a dangerous thing for children. But

02:22:38.190 --> 02:22:40.409
the thing is, like, not going outside for a year

02:22:40.409 --> 02:22:44.209
and a half is actually very dangerous. Wow. Zero

02:22:44.209 --> 02:22:49.530
deaths. Zero deaths. Oh, my God. Okay, so in

02:22:49.530 --> 02:22:51.930
July there's a couple. So you have zero deaths

02:22:51.930 --> 02:22:59.309
from literally from October 20th. October 20th

02:22:59.309 --> 02:23:05.450
you have zero deaths until July 11. Yeah, July

02:23:05.450 --> 02:23:07.649
11 you have one death. And you got a little spike

02:23:07.649 --> 02:23:09.250
there. What's that spike? How many people is

02:23:09.250 --> 02:23:13.569
that? Oh, that's crazy. So I think it's nine

02:23:13.569 --> 02:23:16.270
deaths total since September and they have a...

02:23:16.479 --> 02:23:20.120
a full -on government lockdown where the military

02:23:20.120 --> 02:23:23.379
is locking down the streets. Testing has gone

02:23:23.379 --> 02:23:26.780
up. Yeah, of course. But the deaths have gone

02:23:26.780 --> 02:23:29.040
down. That's the thing. It's like, folks, people

02:23:29.040 --> 02:23:32.239
die from heart attacks in staggering numbers

02:23:32.239 --> 02:23:35.120
every year. You're not making the government

02:23:35.120 --> 02:23:38.340
force people to exercise and put down cheeseburgers.

02:23:38.420 --> 02:23:42.360
I mean, we have to decide. And they say, oh,

02:23:42.420 --> 02:23:44.600
well, the heart disease is not infectious. Okay.

02:23:45.200 --> 02:23:48.540
But the actual cause of death is pretty staggering.

02:23:48.620 --> 02:23:51.579
The numbers of people that are dying from heart

02:23:51.579 --> 02:23:54.940
attacks and cancer, from preventable decisions

02:23:54.940 --> 02:23:59.059
that people make that actively wind up costing

02:23:59.059 --> 02:24:04.420
the public untold numbers of... I mean, what's

02:24:04.420 --> 02:24:08.760
the amount of money that's the burden, the financial

02:24:08.760 --> 02:24:10.860
burden on the health care system because of people

02:24:10.860 --> 02:24:13.139
that are obese, because of heart disease, because

02:24:13.139 --> 02:24:15.819
of cancer? It's crazy. And a lot of it is lifestyle

02:24:15.819 --> 02:24:17.899
choices, and the government does nothing to stop

02:24:17.899 --> 02:24:20.139
those deaths. Did you read that on Guardian?

02:24:20.340 --> 02:24:22.780
They're talking about thinness is a sign of white

02:24:22.780 --> 02:24:26.190
supremacy now. Thinness? fitness fitness sign

02:24:26.190 --> 02:24:28.209
of white supremacy yeah i know a lot of black

02:24:28.209 --> 02:24:31.350
people that are really fit they need to talk

02:24:31.350 --> 02:24:34.309
to david goggins he's a white supremacist he

02:24:34.309 --> 02:24:36.690
doesn't even know it well that's just people

02:24:36.690 --> 02:24:40.250
looking for things to be upset about and to call

02:24:40.250 --> 02:24:44.469
things racist or sexist or homophobic or whatever

02:24:44.469 --> 02:24:47.450
or bigoted they're just looking for things to

02:24:47.450 --> 02:24:50.530
target but this is in north korea is that In

02:24:50.530 --> 02:24:52.809
North Korea, when they said this is our sworn

02:24:52.809 --> 02:24:56.299
enemy, death Americans doesn't mean much. There

02:24:56.299 --> 02:24:58.620
are so much words that doesn't mean anything.

02:24:59.059 --> 02:25:02.760
And now, I mean, America is the same thing. Everybody's

02:25:02.760 --> 02:25:05.920
Hitler. Everybody's a Nazi. Everybody's a racist.

02:25:06.379 --> 02:25:09.059
And I'm a racist. I'm a bigot. I'm a Nazi now,

02:25:09.100 --> 02:25:13.120
too. I didn't even know what the Nazi was. The

02:25:13.120 --> 02:25:14.819
problem is they're just trying to shut people

02:25:14.819 --> 02:25:17.520
down by using those words. And those words are

02:25:17.520 --> 02:25:20.579
horrible. If someone is an actual racist... and

02:25:20.579 --> 02:25:22.620
you call them a racist and everybody else sees

02:25:22.620 --> 02:25:24.620
that they're racist it's a horrible accusation

02:25:24.620 --> 02:25:29.200
so they're using that so freely that they're

02:25:29.200 --> 02:25:31.680
distorting the meaning of it and it doesn't work

02:25:31.680 --> 02:25:34.399
anymore it's like crying wolf the old expression

02:25:34.399 --> 02:25:37.760
of the boy who cried wolf the story that's literally

02:25:37.760 --> 02:25:40.440
what's happening right now in this country it's

02:25:40.440 --> 02:25:43.610
very strange I know this is what people told

02:25:43.610 --> 02:25:45.610
me. This is new to them, too, because I came

02:25:45.610 --> 02:25:48.969
here in 2016, January. Yeah. And I thought this

02:25:48.969 --> 02:25:51.389
was always America was like. And I go, what was

02:25:51.389 --> 02:25:55.510
a country that I dreamed of far away? So it's

02:25:55.510 --> 02:25:58.469
still here. You know that the ideals that built

02:25:58.469 --> 02:26:00.049
this country still here with a lot of people,

02:26:00.149 --> 02:26:02.989
you know, a lot of people that support freedom

02:26:02.989 --> 02:26:06.750
and the freedom of expression. the ability to

02:26:06.750 --> 02:26:10.190
speak freely and to debate thoughts openly. All

02:26:10.190 --> 02:26:12.350
that stuff still exists with a lot of people

02:26:12.350 --> 02:26:17.010
here. But there's a lot of people that are willing

02:26:17.010 --> 02:26:18.870
to give that up. They're willing to give that

02:26:18.870 --> 02:26:21.670
up if their side can win. And it's very confusing

02:26:21.670 --> 02:26:24.950
because it's a mixture of toxic tribalism and

02:26:24.950 --> 02:26:28.770
short -sightedness mixed with ideology. And it's

02:26:28.770 --> 02:26:32.530
a disturbing moment in time. It really is. So

02:26:32.530 --> 02:26:35.530
how do you, what do you think, how can we oppose

02:26:35.530 --> 02:26:40.069
Chinese regime? It's infiltrating everywhere.

02:26:40.530 --> 02:26:42.590
That's a good question. You know, when you see

02:26:42.590 --> 02:26:45.850
John Cena from the WWE apologizing for calling

02:26:45.850 --> 02:26:49.250
Taiwan a country, you're like, holy shit. LeBron

02:26:49.250 --> 02:26:52.329
James. Yeah. This guy talking about justice all

02:26:52.329 --> 02:26:56.799
day long in America. Yeah. So how... What do

02:26:56.799 --> 02:26:58.500
we do with China? Well, they're corrupted by

02:26:58.500 --> 02:27:00.959
money. That's the problem. The problem is China.

02:27:01.159 --> 02:27:04.219
Look, when that movie, The Fast and the Furious,

02:27:04.280 --> 02:27:07.100
came out, I think the numbers, I'm roughly saying

02:27:07.100 --> 02:27:09.420
the numbers, but I think the numbers were the

02:27:09.420 --> 02:27:13.940
box office weekend was $160 million. $136 million

02:27:13.940 --> 02:27:18.379
of it was from China. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. It's

02:27:18.379 --> 02:27:21.180
terrifying. Oh, man. So when he had to apologize

02:27:21.180 --> 02:27:23.299
and said, I'm so sorry. I made a mistake. I was

02:27:23.299 --> 02:27:26.149
really tired. All he did was call Taiwan a country.

02:27:26.309 --> 02:27:30.610
I mean, it wasn't something where he said, you

02:27:30.610 --> 02:27:32.909
know, China's a terrible place. It sucks. I hate

02:27:32.909 --> 02:27:35.110
the Chinese people. He didn't say anything like

02:27:35.110 --> 02:27:37.489
that. He didn't say anything like that. All he

02:27:37.489 --> 02:27:42.889
said was he called Taiwan a country. It's crazy.

02:27:43.170 --> 02:27:47.090
It's crazy that people are willing to give a

02:27:47.090 --> 02:27:49.850
country like China that much power because of

02:27:49.850 --> 02:27:52.959
money. But that's the reality of this world that

02:27:52.959 --> 02:27:55.100
we live in. We don't manufacture anything in

02:27:55.100 --> 02:27:57.180
America anymore. I mean, all these woke people

02:27:57.180 --> 02:28:00.440
tweeting on iPhones that are made at Foxconn

02:28:00.440 --> 02:28:02.520
in China where they have nets around the building

02:28:02.520 --> 02:28:05.120
to stop people from jumping off the roof because

02:28:05.120 --> 02:28:06.819
there's so many people that commit suicide that

02:28:06.819 --> 02:28:09.760
they have to have fucking nets. And the fact

02:28:09.760 --> 02:28:12.360
that people don't make that connection, they

02:28:12.360 --> 02:28:15.500
don't understand how crazy that is, that you're

02:28:15.500 --> 02:28:18.840
literally supporting... This company that is

02:28:18.840 --> 02:28:22.760
making people work so much for so little and

02:28:22.760 --> 02:28:26.139
they're so desperate and so sad that they're

02:28:26.139 --> 02:28:29.379
jumping off roofs in numbers so high they have

02:28:29.379 --> 02:28:32.059
to put nets on them. No one even brings it up.

02:28:32.819 --> 02:28:38.180
Convenient. Yeah. Strange. It's a strange form

02:28:38.180 --> 02:28:43.530
of hypocrisy. Yeah. Do you think? I mean. I don't

02:28:43.530 --> 02:28:46.209
think capitalism is a problem because then people

02:28:46.209 --> 02:28:48.610
say, oh, because of the capitalism make people

02:28:48.610 --> 02:28:52.229
greedy, right? Because people in capitalist countries

02:28:52.229 --> 02:28:54.590
were way better than people in communist countries

02:28:54.590 --> 02:28:58.209
that I've ever seen and way less corrupt. I think

02:28:58.209 --> 02:29:00.709
they look at the worst examples of capitalism.

02:29:01.319 --> 02:29:03.500
And there are horrible examples of capitalism

02:29:03.500 --> 02:29:06.780
and there are people that are willing to do anything

02:29:06.780 --> 02:29:09.600
for money. I mean, you've seen that with people

02:29:09.600 --> 02:29:11.600
like John Cena apologizing for China. Right.

02:29:11.639 --> 02:29:14.200
And that's the kind of thing that is a form of

02:29:14.200 --> 02:29:16.280
capitalism that you're seeing apologizing to

02:29:16.280 --> 02:29:18.739
the Chinese Communist Party. But it really is

02:29:18.739 --> 02:29:21.579
about capitalism. It's about his ability to make

02:29:21.579 --> 02:29:24.379
money and the chance that he might lose money

02:29:24.379 --> 02:29:28.739
or that is. His film might not be distributed

02:29:28.739 --> 02:29:30.899
over there anymore anyone's like a real problem.

02:29:31.000 --> 02:29:34.120
He had to apologize for you're seeing that with

02:29:34.909 --> 02:29:37.850
like these subprime mortgages that cause the

02:29:37.850 --> 02:29:40.190
housing collapse. You're seeing that when you

02:29:40.190 --> 02:29:42.129
see corruption in the stock market or when you

02:29:42.129 --> 02:29:45.510
see any kind of savings and loans corruption.

02:29:45.670 --> 02:29:48.250
And there's financial corruption and stealing

02:29:48.250 --> 02:29:51.069
money and the corporate influence that they have

02:29:51.069 --> 02:29:53.290
on politicians and lobbyists and special interest

02:29:53.290 --> 02:29:56.229
groups. That's all capitalism run amok, right?

02:29:56.809 --> 02:30:02.520
But the bare bones of it, the idea that... there's

02:30:02.520 --> 02:30:04.680
many parts of this country that are still a meritocracy.

02:30:04.879 --> 02:30:06.340
There's many parts of this country where you

02:30:06.340 --> 02:30:08.920
can work hard and do better for yourself and

02:30:08.920 --> 02:30:11.120
accomplish things and provide a service that

02:30:11.120 --> 02:30:13.120
people enjoy and they give you money and the

02:30:13.120 --> 02:30:15.040
harder you work and the better your product is,

02:30:15.100 --> 02:30:17.399
the more you profit from it. And that gives people

02:30:17.399 --> 02:30:20.159
incentive to do well. The foundation of that

02:30:20.159 --> 02:30:23.059
still exists. We just have to be very careful

02:30:23.059 --> 02:30:25.200
that we don't give that up. We have to be very

02:30:25.200 --> 02:30:27.559
careful that we don't give that up and give the

02:30:27.559 --> 02:30:30.319
power over to the government. Because the government

02:30:30.319 --> 02:30:33.829
is... Ultimately, they're human beings. And people,

02:30:34.049 --> 02:30:35.889
human beings, when they have unchecked power,

02:30:36.209 --> 02:30:39.149
it's very dangerous. And it has been throughout

02:30:39.149 --> 02:30:41.450
history. The default position, if you go throughout

02:30:41.450 --> 02:30:43.850
history and you look at all of the governments

02:30:43.850 --> 02:30:46.809
that existed until America really came along,

02:30:47.030 --> 02:30:51.200
it's dictators. All of it. It's always been the

02:30:51.200 --> 02:30:53.639
case. It's always been one group that's in power.

02:30:53.780 --> 02:30:56.840
The best way to be in power is to be ruthless

02:30:56.840 --> 02:31:00.680
and to attack anytime you're challenged and confronted

02:31:00.680 --> 02:31:04.020
and punish people in open air. Execute them publicly.

02:31:04.719 --> 02:31:08.920
Any dissent gets shut down instantaneously. Censor

02:31:08.920 --> 02:31:11.579
any speech that doesn't go along with the speech

02:31:11.579 --> 02:31:14.760
that the government is projecting. That's always

02:31:14.760 --> 02:31:17.639
been the standard. That's been the standard throughout

02:31:17.639 --> 02:31:21.360
human history. Every king, every emperor, they

02:31:21.360 --> 02:31:23.799
all did the same thing until the United States.

02:31:23.979 --> 02:31:25.659
And there's people in the United States that

02:31:25.659 --> 02:31:28.200
are willing to give that up. They're willing

02:31:28.200 --> 02:31:30.180
to give that up because they want their side

02:31:30.180 --> 02:31:33.680
to win. And it's terrifying. It is. It's terrifying.

02:31:33.959 --> 02:31:35.459
Because once you give it up, you're never getting

02:31:35.459 --> 02:31:37.920
it back. Unless we go to war again. Unless we

02:31:37.920 --> 02:31:39.899
have a civil war in this country. And then if

02:31:39.899 --> 02:31:41.260
we have a civil war in this country, guess who's

02:31:41.260 --> 02:31:44.120
going to sneak in? China. China's going to sneak

02:31:44.120 --> 02:31:46.559
in and they're going to take over all sorts of

02:31:46.559 --> 02:31:48.920
corporations by buying them out. They're going

02:31:48.920 --> 02:31:52.959
to take over all sorts of politicians by influencing

02:31:52.959 --> 02:31:55.399
their campaigns and changing the laws that they're

02:31:55.399 --> 02:31:57.840
willing to support and changing the amendments

02:31:57.840 --> 02:32:01.799
and the different ways that we govern the country.

02:32:02.280 --> 02:32:03.940
They're going to change the way people vote.

02:32:04.079 --> 02:32:05.280
They're going to change all kinds of things.

02:32:05.360 --> 02:32:10.069
And this is just, it's just, it's almost. The

02:32:10.069 --> 02:32:13.489
founding fathers somehow or another knew that

02:32:13.489 --> 02:32:16.969
this could happen. When they put in place the

02:32:16.969 --> 02:32:20.709
Bill of Rights and all these amendments, when

02:32:20.709 --> 02:32:22.750
they were putting in the First Amendment, the

02:32:22.750 --> 02:32:24.569
Second Amendment, all these amendments, they

02:32:24.569 --> 02:32:26.909
were doing it because they understood human nature.

02:32:27.069 --> 02:32:30.190
They understood what has happened in the past.

02:32:30.840 --> 02:32:33.100
When people have organized, what has happened

02:32:33.100 --> 02:32:35.399
in the past when free speech has been stifled?

02:32:35.479 --> 02:32:39.260
What has happened in the past when we allow someone

02:32:39.260 --> 02:32:42.680
to censor us and we allow someone to dictate

02:32:42.680 --> 02:32:44.680
what gets discussed and what doesn't get discussed?

02:32:44.959 --> 02:32:47.739
It's very dangerous. I mean, the only thing I

02:32:47.739 --> 02:32:51.129
can remember for years that I hear is that. The

02:32:51.129 --> 02:32:53.430
only way to solve the problem that we have is

02:32:53.430 --> 02:32:55.729
tearing down this foundation of this country.

02:32:56.090 --> 02:32:58.850
Because the Constitution itself is a bigotry

02:32:58.850 --> 02:33:03.170
written by white supremacists. So that is, I

02:33:03.170 --> 02:33:04.889
mean, I don't know. That's every conclusion of

02:33:04.889 --> 02:33:08.209
every class that I took. It's crazy. What's the

02:33:08.209 --> 02:33:10.670
alternative? The alternative is socialism. And

02:33:10.670 --> 02:33:12.229
they always say that socialism hasn't been done

02:33:12.229 --> 02:33:15.610
correctly. Okay. But the problem with socialism

02:33:15.610 --> 02:33:17.969
is what Jordan talks about all the time. Jordan

02:33:17.969 --> 02:33:19.670
Peterson, he says, you cannot have an equality

02:33:19.670 --> 02:33:22.170
of outcome. And it's true. You can't. It's very

02:33:22.170 --> 02:33:24.010
dangerous. And people don't see it that way.

02:33:24.069 --> 02:33:27.370
They tried. And one guy became a god. And everybody

02:33:27.370 --> 02:33:31.049
don't even know they are slaves now. And you

02:33:31.049 --> 02:33:34.309
can manipulate the truth to fit the narrative

02:33:34.309 --> 02:33:37.930
that allows you to stay in power and keep utilizing

02:33:37.930 --> 02:33:41.149
the tools that allowed you to get into power

02:33:41.149 --> 02:33:46.629
in the first place. And then make it no different

02:33:46.629 --> 02:33:49.370
than every other government that's ever controlled

02:33:49.370 --> 02:33:52.750
the people. throughout human history. We have

02:33:52.750 --> 02:33:55.190
a chance to not have it like that in this country.

02:33:55.610 --> 02:34:00.889
That's why when people oppose universal restrictions,

02:34:01.350 --> 02:34:05.170
when people oppose widespread government powers

02:34:05.170 --> 02:34:09.190
to do things, like that was one of the big oppositions,

02:34:09.190 --> 02:34:11.670
one of the big things that people opposed about

02:34:11.670 --> 02:34:17.590
lockdowns was not that we shouldn't. be careful

02:34:17.590 --> 02:34:20.469
with vulnerable people during a pandemic. The

02:34:20.469 --> 02:34:23.209
problem is you're giving the government the ability

02:34:23.209 --> 02:34:26.930
to decide what is essential and what is not essential,

02:34:27.129 --> 02:34:29.809
who can work and who can't work, what chances

02:34:29.809 --> 02:34:32.989
you can take and not take. And they're not being

02:34:32.989 --> 02:34:37.090
honest about all sorts of aspects of the disease.

02:34:37.170 --> 02:34:40.270
They weren't even willing to discuss whether

02:34:40.270 --> 02:34:43.030
or not this disease possibly was leaked from

02:34:43.030 --> 02:34:45.469
a lab until long after Trump was out of office.

02:34:46.330 --> 02:34:49.209
And even to this day, liberals are terrified

02:34:49.209 --> 02:34:51.149
of bringing that up because they think that if

02:34:51.149 --> 02:34:53.790
you bring it up, somehow or another it can connect

02:34:53.790 --> 02:34:58.329
you to Trump or Fox News or you've said something

02:34:58.329 --> 02:35:01.590
that Fox News said. What if Fox News was right?

02:35:01.989 --> 02:35:05.069
Do you care about the truth or do you care about

02:35:05.069 --> 02:35:07.590
supporting your side? Do you care about your

02:35:07.590 --> 02:35:10.530
tribe? And more people are terrified of being

02:35:10.530 --> 02:35:14.709
rejected by their tribe than they are of the

02:35:14.709 --> 02:35:17.750
truth not getting out. You should be terrified

02:35:17.750 --> 02:35:20.389
of lies. You should be terrified of the truth

02:35:20.389 --> 02:35:23.250
not getting out. You don't know what the landscape

02:35:23.250 --> 02:35:26.850
is unless you're allowed to assess and analyze

02:35:26.850 --> 02:35:30.670
all the aspects of life, all of them. And people

02:35:30.670 --> 02:35:33.229
are terrified of doing that today. And a lot

02:35:33.229 --> 02:35:35.190
of it is because of social media. It's because

02:35:35.190 --> 02:35:37.670
there's so many people that just live on social

02:35:37.670 --> 02:35:41.920
media all day long. And they're on there just

02:35:41.920 --> 02:35:45.959
constantly going to war in the worst way possible

02:35:45.959 --> 02:35:49.799
with text messages. Get triggered by every single

02:35:49.799 --> 02:35:51.719
thing they see. Well, didn't they talk to you

02:35:51.719 --> 02:35:53.500
about that in Colombia too? They tell you about

02:35:53.500 --> 02:35:56.540
things that triggered you? So before the class,

02:35:56.620 --> 02:36:00.270
they send you email. and say, oh, in this material,

02:36:00.450 --> 02:36:03.489
we're going to talk about maybe racism or rape

02:36:03.489 --> 02:36:06.690
or any kind of oppression, whatever it is. If

02:36:06.690 --> 02:36:09.870
it hurts you, it triggers your feelings, do not

02:36:09.870 --> 02:36:11.670
even do the reading and don't even come to class.

02:36:12.010 --> 02:36:14.729
And before the class, they announced, even at

02:36:14.729 --> 02:36:16.530
any point during this class, it triggers your

02:36:16.530 --> 02:36:18.629
feelings, leave the class and don't even tell

02:36:18.629 --> 02:36:24.000
me what you feel. People emotionally not stable,

02:36:24.079 --> 02:36:26.780
so they bring the comfort dogs in the classroom.

02:36:27.020 --> 02:36:30.100
They bring dogs? Yeah. So dogs are licking around

02:36:30.100 --> 02:36:32.440
the people because they need the comfort from

02:36:32.440 --> 02:36:34.940
the animals, right? They cannot even sit in the...

02:36:34.940 --> 02:36:38.139
How many dogs? Several dogs at a per class, right?

02:36:38.399 --> 02:36:40.680
What if the dogs start fighting? They bark and

02:36:40.680 --> 02:36:43.440
they lick and they chew. And I asked one day,

02:36:43.500 --> 02:36:45.379
like, can I take my baby? He was going to take

02:36:45.379 --> 02:36:48.000
a nap in the store. I said no. So they said no

02:36:48.000 --> 02:36:50.579
to the baby, but it's okay with the dogs. No

02:36:50.579 --> 02:36:54.299
babies, but you can have a dog. Yeah. Wow. And,

02:36:54.299 --> 02:36:56.479
yeah, this is the... It's my emotional support

02:36:56.479 --> 02:37:00.540
baby. Exactly. What if I said... I get triggered

02:37:00.540 --> 02:37:03.219
easily when I see a baby. I wonder, why can't

02:37:03.219 --> 02:37:05.280
you do that? Why can't you say that? This is

02:37:05.280 --> 02:37:07.780
so madness. The problem is your baby's half white.

02:37:07.860 --> 02:37:11.000
So your baby might be racist. Your baby might

02:37:11.000 --> 02:37:13.860
be a part of the patriarchy. But what is this

02:37:13.860 --> 02:37:17.059
self -loathing? Why are they committing suicide

02:37:17.059 --> 02:37:20.979
by themselves as a civilization? In North Korea,

02:37:21.040 --> 02:37:24.299
we have a gun next to our head. But in this country,

02:37:24.479 --> 02:37:27.479
you have freedom to learn and read and think.

02:37:28.000 --> 02:37:31.239
Why are they doing this? It's so thing about

02:37:31.239 --> 02:37:33.760
human nature, right? We chose Hitler. We voted

02:37:33.760 --> 02:37:37.440
him. People did that. You know, there's an expression

02:37:37.440 --> 02:37:39.479
that I've said on this podcast many times, but

02:37:39.479 --> 02:37:41.899
I'll say it again, is that hard times create

02:37:41.899 --> 02:37:46.379
hard men. Hard men create soft times. Soft times

02:37:46.379 --> 02:37:50.219
create soft men. Soft men create hard times.

02:37:51.180 --> 02:37:55.950
We are now around soft men. In hard times. We're

02:37:55.950 --> 02:37:59.450
in the time of toxic masculinity, right? Where

02:37:59.450 --> 02:38:03.430
you could be toxically male. And then if you're

02:38:03.430 --> 02:38:07.510
suppressing masculinity, you're going to bring

02:38:07.510 --> 02:38:12.030
on hard times. Masculinity doesn't mean you're

02:38:12.030 --> 02:38:14.209
mean. It doesn't mean you're angry. It means

02:38:14.209 --> 02:38:19.010
strength. It means discipline. It means the ability.

02:38:19.649 --> 02:38:24.069
You need. And if you don't think you need a military,

02:38:24.290 --> 02:38:26.010
you need to go and pay attention to the rest

02:38:26.010 --> 02:38:27.790
of the world because there's militaries all over

02:38:27.790 --> 02:38:29.350
the world that are doing horrific things. If

02:38:29.350 --> 02:38:31.110
you don't have a military in this country that

02:38:31.110 --> 02:38:35.450
can combat that and at least act as a deterrent

02:38:35.450 --> 02:38:37.590
to them doing things, you're going to get taken

02:38:37.590 --> 02:38:40.350
over. That's what's happened. I mean, look what's

02:38:40.350 --> 02:38:42.370
happening to Hong Kong, right? I mean, this is

02:38:42.370 --> 02:38:44.549
a city that essentially doesn't have a military

02:38:44.549 --> 02:38:46.670
and they were a British colony for a long time

02:38:46.670 --> 02:38:48.590
and they gave it back over to China and they

02:38:48.590 --> 02:38:51.739
were kind of acting like they were Independent

02:38:51.739 --> 02:38:54.040
until recently. And during the pandemic, they

02:38:54.040 --> 02:38:56.260
ramped it up and it's gotten even worse. It's

02:38:56.260 --> 02:38:59.879
exactly what we talked about. You can't be weak.

02:39:00.420 --> 02:39:04.059
And in this country, being weak is thought of

02:39:04.059 --> 02:39:07.000
as a virtue. Jordan Peterson has a really interesting

02:39:07.000 --> 02:39:09.079
way of looking at this. And he said it to me

02:39:09.079 --> 02:39:13.139
once and it made a lot of sense. He said, people

02:39:13.139 --> 02:39:16.040
think that you should be weak and you should

02:39:16.040 --> 02:39:19.860
be docile and then you should be a pacifist.

02:39:19.860 --> 02:39:23.049
He goes, no. You should be a monster. He said

02:39:23.049 --> 02:39:26.030
you should be a monster. You should be ruthlessly

02:39:26.030 --> 02:39:30.649
ambitious and then learn how to control it. And

02:39:30.649 --> 02:39:32.670
it's that old expression. It's better to be a

02:39:32.670 --> 02:39:35.450
warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.

02:39:36.909 --> 02:39:40.450
Wow. It's an old expression, but it makes sense.

02:39:40.649 --> 02:39:43.409
Because it doesn't mean that you can't be kind

02:39:43.409 --> 02:39:47.450
if you're strong. But it does mean you can't

02:39:47.450 --> 02:39:50.020
be strong if you're weak. Yeah. If you're weak,

02:39:50.079 --> 02:39:52.639
you're fucked. And there's a lot of weak people

02:39:52.639 --> 02:39:54.040
in this country right now that are trying to

02:39:54.040 --> 02:39:56.319
take control. And they're gathering up all the

02:39:56.319 --> 02:39:58.020
other weak people and they say, yeah, let's all

02:39:58.020 --> 02:40:01.200
be weak together. And they're willing to embrace

02:40:01.200 --> 02:40:04.139
all sorts of ideas that have been disproven.

02:40:04.159 --> 02:40:05.979
Not just disproven, that have caused the deaths

02:40:05.979 --> 02:40:09.540
of untold millions of people. And Mao is China

02:40:09.540 --> 02:40:14.639
and Stalin is Russia. It's crazy. And they're

02:40:14.639 --> 02:40:17.079
short -sighted. And they're short -sighted because

02:40:17.079 --> 02:40:21.180
in the short term, They want their tribe to win,

02:40:21.340 --> 02:40:23.360
and there's so many weak people that will join

02:40:23.360 --> 02:40:26.579
along with them. There's so many simple -minded

02:40:26.579 --> 02:40:30.579
dullards that just want to promote their tribe.

02:40:30.979 --> 02:40:33.860
Yeah. I mean, they encourage you to be triggered.

02:40:34.120 --> 02:40:36.280
Yeah. They encourage you to be weak, right? When

02:40:36.280 --> 02:40:39.299
you go in, they try not to expose you to any

02:40:39.299 --> 02:40:41.879
reality. That's the thing why universities, like,

02:40:41.879 --> 02:40:45.280
scare you. And you are never getting a real sense

02:40:45.280 --> 02:40:47.739
of the world. I mean, the fact they cannot, they're

02:40:47.739 --> 02:40:49.979
triggered by hearing the word rape. What are

02:40:49.979 --> 02:40:52.059
they going to do when they get raped? They're

02:40:52.059 --> 02:40:54.700
never going to revive again afterwards. Well,

02:40:54.760 --> 02:40:59.280
it's, the disturbing thing is that when you're

02:40:59.280 --> 02:41:02.559
learning things. If you're going to learn, you're

02:41:02.559 --> 02:41:05.260
going to be exposed to some horrific truths.

02:41:05.500 --> 02:41:07.540
Yeah. Like if you're going to learn about Stalin,

02:41:07.819 --> 02:41:10.120
you're going to, I mean, I've talked to my friend

02:41:10.120 --> 02:41:12.780
Lex Friedman when he was talking to me about

02:41:12.780 --> 02:41:17.100
some of the experiences that his grandmother's

02:41:17.100 --> 02:41:20.579
people had when Stalin was running Russia. And

02:41:20.579 --> 02:41:23.239
people were eating their own children. Yeah.

02:41:23.280 --> 02:41:26.200
I mean, that's. Those Koreans. And it's the same

02:41:26.200 --> 02:41:28.079
sort of thing. They were starving these people

02:41:28.079 --> 02:41:30.930
to death in order to keep control of them. And

02:41:30.930 --> 02:41:34.569
the results were horrific. If you don't hear

02:41:34.569 --> 02:41:38.190
that, if you don't hear that in all of its terrifying,

02:41:38.549 --> 02:41:42.450
brutal detail, then you're not going to be aware.

02:41:42.569 --> 02:41:44.190
And even then you're not going to really be aware.

02:41:44.350 --> 02:41:48.510
Like you're aware. You are absolutely aware of

02:41:48.510 --> 02:41:51.549
what can happen when things go horrifically wrong

02:41:51.549 --> 02:41:54.950
because you were born into a society that was

02:41:54.950 --> 02:41:58.350
horrifically wrong. You were born into this terrifying

02:41:58.350 --> 02:42:01.870
dictatorship. that exists right now while you

02:42:01.870 --> 02:42:05.190
and I are sitting here in Austin, Texas, talking,

02:42:05.430 --> 02:42:08.329
drinking coffee, having a good old time. There's

02:42:08.329 --> 02:42:10.209
people in concentration camps for no fault of

02:42:10.209 --> 02:42:12.750
their own in the country you were born. And if

02:42:12.750 --> 02:42:15.590
that doesn't get discussed, people don't understand.

02:42:15.790 --> 02:42:18.030
If you say, oh, are you triggered by this? Well,

02:42:18.030 --> 02:42:20.149
you don't have to hear it. You're not going to

02:42:20.149 --> 02:42:22.770
learn. We're not going to expose these things.

02:42:22.829 --> 02:42:24.729
We're not going to learn. And even then, just

02:42:24.729 --> 02:42:27.850
the abstract concepts, the way you're discussing

02:42:27.850 --> 02:42:30.879
it, It's resonating. I understand what you're

02:42:30.879 --> 02:42:33.000
saying, but I don't know what the fuck you experienced.

02:42:33.120 --> 02:42:35.200
I'd have to go there. I would have to live your

02:42:35.200 --> 02:42:39.100
life. You would have to physically experience

02:42:39.100 --> 02:42:42.299
it in person in order for it to really get into

02:42:42.299 --> 02:42:44.760
your head. And we're not even allowing kids to

02:42:44.760 --> 02:42:47.420
read words that fuck with their heads. Yeah,

02:42:47.420 --> 02:42:52.059
no. It's almost you are so capable. And by going

02:42:52.059 --> 02:42:54.420
to this school system, they make you almost a

02:42:54.420 --> 02:42:57.840
handicap. They disable you. They change your

02:42:57.840 --> 02:43:00.319
potential. And as you say, we're born as warriors.

02:43:00.659 --> 02:43:04.260
Who knows? But they make us incapable of anything.

02:43:04.479 --> 02:43:06.399
And the biggest problem you have is somebody

02:43:06.399 --> 02:43:09.219
calls you the wrong pronoun. And this triggers

02:43:09.219 --> 02:43:12.149
them. This makes them depressed. And this is

02:43:12.149 --> 02:43:14.170
a thing or they think it's the biggest injustice

02:43:14.170 --> 02:43:17.629
they've ever seen. Yeah, we've weaponized people

02:43:17.629 --> 02:43:20.370
being offended, too. When people are offended,

02:43:20.549 --> 02:43:22.750
they get a massive amount of extra attention.

02:43:22.969 --> 02:43:24.889
All they have to do is yell about it and scream

02:43:24.889 --> 02:43:27.010
about it and talk about how horrible it is. And

02:43:27.010 --> 02:43:28.850
everyone is like, oh, my God, I hear your truth.

02:43:28.989 --> 02:43:31.690
I feel you when you're saying this. And it makes

02:43:31.690 --> 02:43:34.430
them special. You're encouraging people to act

02:43:34.430 --> 02:43:37.540
up instead of encouraging people to. To change

02:43:37.540 --> 02:43:39.360
their perspective and to see things for what

02:43:39.360 --> 02:43:41.680
they are or to look at the way other people see

02:43:41.680 --> 02:43:44.379
things. To look at it from someone else's viewpoint,

02:43:44.620 --> 02:43:46.600
from someone else's life, from someone else's

02:43:46.600 --> 02:43:50.920
learned experiences. It was really funny. While

02:43:50.920 --> 02:43:54.809
I was writing my book, uh my agent was telling

02:43:54.809 --> 02:43:57.190
me my editor was telling me like you and me you're

02:43:57.190 --> 02:44:00.790
traumatized so you need to go see somebody called

02:44:00.790 --> 02:44:03.530
a therapist right so it's like what the heck

02:44:03.530 --> 02:44:07.569
is therapist and then they're like oh you gave

02:44:07.569 --> 02:44:10.629
like pay her like um she's normally 200 i mean

02:44:10.629 --> 02:44:13.530
700 per hour but she's gonna give you a discount

02:44:13.530 --> 02:44:18.350
so for our 20 dollars $700 an hour? Yeah, in

02:44:18.350 --> 02:44:20.670
New York City. But then she's going to give me

02:44:20.670 --> 02:44:23.290
discounted rates of $200 per hour. Basically

02:44:23.290 --> 02:44:29.069
go talk to her how hard my life was. And I was

02:44:29.069 --> 02:44:32.670
like, the fact that I know what trauma is, what

02:44:32.670 --> 02:44:36.309
PTSD is, the fact that there are people like

02:44:36.309 --> 02:44:38.290
right now, 25 million of my people don't even

02:44:38.290 --> 02:44:41.670
know what trauma is. This is ridiculous. And

02:44:41.670 --> 02:44:44.010
I was like, what is the point of me then surviving?

02:44:44.440 --> 02:44:47.840
All of that. Now just complaining how hard it

02:44:47.840 --> 02:44:50.500
was. What is the point of me surviving any of

02:44:50.500 --> 02:44:52.719
it? So someone can tell you you're going to be

02:44:52.719 --> 02:44:55.520
okay. It's okay to have these feelings. Exactly.

02:44:56.100 --> 02:44:58.360
It's okay. It's okay to have these feelings.

02:44:58.559 --> 02:45:00.799
It's okay to hate men. It's okay to be bitter.

02:45:00.959 --> 02:45:04.739
It's okay to be complaining and blaming everything

02:45:04.739 --> 02:45:06.819
else. Did you go to therapy? Did you do it? Absolutely

02:45:06.819 --> 02:45:12.370
not. But, I mean, 80 % of my investment bank

02:45:12.370 --> 02:45:14.610
are consulting friends in New York go to therapy.

02:45:14.829 --> 02:45:17.229
And I support that they should. They can afford

02:45:17.229 --> 02:45:20.809
it. It's a thing. But the fact that I couldn't

02:45:20.809 --> 02:45:24.049
fathom in the beginning that you need to go to

02:45:24.049 --> 02:45:27.989
therapy to survive in Manhattan. I think people

02:45:27.989 --> 02:45:32.450
need to be able to talk to people about things

02:45:32.450 --> 02:45:35.149
to try to work through them. And I think a lot

02:45:35.149 --> 02:45:37.680
of people feel like they can't. find someone

02:45:37.680 --> 02:45:41.100
in their life that they trust enough with their

02:45:41.100 --> 02:45:44.100
true feelings and their real thoughts and that's

02:45:44.100 --> 02:45:47.440
a that's a sad testament to the kind of relationships

02:45:47.440 --> 02:45:49.639
that a lot of people have a lot of friendships

02:45:49.639 --> 02:45:52.659
and and and romance romantic relationships that

02:45:52.659 --> 02:45:54.420
people have in their life that they can't talk

02:45:54.420 --> 02:45:59.870
openly about the real live experiences It's like

02:45:59.870 --> 02:46:03.290
people, we have so much versions of ourselves

02:46:03.290 --> 02:46:08.309
inside us, right? Like I can see why people become

02:46:08.309 --> 02:46:11.110
the guards of concentration camps, right? Like

02:46:11.110 --> 02:46:13.530
that's a thing. Humans are not initially good

02:46:13.530 --> 02:46:16.989
or bad. It's all about how we shape them. When

02:46:16.989 --> 02:46:19.809
you were talking about experiencing dead bodies

02:46:19.809 --> 02:46:21.469
on the street but feeling nothing or feeling

02:46:21.469 --> 02:46:23.770
that boy with his intestines hanging out his

02:46:23.770 --> 02:46:27.090
back and feeling nothing. Yeah. That's because

02:46:27.090 --> 02:46:29.709
of the way you grew up. Yeah. That's the thing,

02:46:29.729 --> 02:46:33.770
like humans are most adaptive species. We are

02:46:33.770 --> 02:46:36.989
so adaptable. Yeah. And that's also good and

02:46:36.989 --> 02:46:40.329
bad. We can adapt. We can adapt to the concentration

02:46:40.329 --> 02:46:42.690
camps, right? We can be the guards and not feel

02:46:42.690 --> 02:46:45.829
guilty about it. And I think not talking about

02:46:45.829 --> 02:46:48.790
that, not talking about the evil or what we are

02:46:48.790 --> 02:46:51.430
capable of, the darkness. That said, everything

02:46:51.430 --> 02:46:54.170
in North Korean news is wonderful things. Now

02:46:54.170 --> 02:46:56.350
in this country, because they say there's no

02:46:56.350 --> 02:46:59.030
room for hate speech, they want everything to

02:46:59.030 --> 02:47:03.229
be happy, flowery words. But the thing is, we

02:47:03.229 --> 02:47:05.629
have dark side. No matter what you do, they're

02:47:05.629 --> 02:47:07.750
going to be murderers. They're going to be rapists.

02:47:08.170 --> 02:47:10.829
Even if we don't talk about rape, rape is going

02:47:10.829 --> 02:47:13.709
to happen. So getting rid of these people and

02:47:13.709 --> 02:47:15.850
deplatforming them and canceling them, we don't

02:47:15.850 --> 02:47:18.639
get rid of the actual problem. So in a way, it's

02:47:18.639 --> 02:47:20.920
better for us to talk about our full nature,

02:47:21.120 --> 02:47:23.700
what we are actually capable of, right? We can

02:47:23.700 --> 02:47:26.899
be so resilient, compassionate beings, or we

02:47:26.899 --> 02:47:29.120
can be complete like asshole, like not caring

02:47:29.120 --> 02:47:31.979
about anything at all, like Kim Jong -un. And

02:47:31.979 --> 02:47:34.399
we have to learn why people think differently

02:47:34.399 --> 02:47:36.559
than us. And the only way you can do that is

02:47:36.559 --> 02:47:38.760
by talking to them. And there's a lot of those

02:47:38.760 --> 02:47:41.659
people that think in a way that you find problematic.

02:47:42.319 --> 02:47:44.799
They can be converted. They can be talked to.

02:47:44.940 --> 02:47:47.719
But not if you... treat them like they're the

02:47:47.719 --> 02:47:51.319
enemy and cast them aside and block them from

02:47:51.319 --> 02:47:54.139
communicating. Yeah. It's like, there's a thing,

02:47:54.180 --> 02:47:56.159
like, would you rather, like, I would rather

02:47:56.159 --> 02:47:58.139
know if there's a Hitler exist. Yes. When I do

02:47:58.139 --> 02:48:00.200
the genocide, I want to know about it. Would

02:48:00.200 --> 02:48:02.219
you not want to know about it? Yeah. I want to

02:48:02.219 --> 02:48:04.739
know if somebody planning that. Right? There

02:48:04.739 --> 02:48:07.059
are, like, people in the past where on Facebook

02:48:07.059 --> 02:48:09.299
they're posting, I'm going to commit a, like,

02:48:09.299 --> 02:48:11.399
murder in the Soms church. Right. They post on

02:48:11.399 --> 02:48:14.059
Facebook. Isn't it much better for FBI to know

02:48:14.059 --> 02:48:16.100
that? They're not giving them the platform so

02:48:16.100 --> 02:48:18.040
we don't know who's planning the mass murder

02:48:18.040 --> 02:48:22.399
right now. Right, right. When do you feel like,

02:48:22.420 --> 02:48:24.680
because you had this time in your life where

02:48:24.680 --> 02:48:26.959
you could see that boy with his intestines hanging

02:48:26.959 --> 02:48:28.920
out of his back and it didn't bother you, you

02:48:28.920 --> 02:48:31.979
didn't feel anything. When do you think you started

02:48:31.979 --> 02:48:40.559
to feel things? With my son. Because the hardest

02:48:40.559 --> 02:48:42.899
thing wasn't learning about the system or none

02:48:42.899 --> 02:48:48.850
of that. Even in China, I was always numb. Even

02:48:48.850 --> 02:48:52.610
when I was raped, I was looking at myself on

02:48:52.610 --> 02:48:55.729
the roof, in the corners, and like, oh, that's

02:48:55.729 --> 02:48:58.649
not me. How can that be happening to me? I was

02:48:58.649 --> 02:49:04.110
completely ignoring that. And in North Korea,

02:49:04.190 --> 02:49:08.489
you're so numb in your brain. When I had my son

02:49:08.489 --> 02:49:12.379
in America in 2018, That's when I was feeling

02:49:12.379 --> 02:49:15.600
things. And I was so grateful that I felt even

02:49:15.600 --> 02:49:18.819
sadness. You were worried that you wouldn't feel

02:49:18.819 --> 02:49:24.719
it? I was very worried. Feeling something was

02:49:24.719 --> 02:49:28.299
very challenging. And giving birth to my son

02:49:28.299 --> 02:49:31.700
brought a lot of new feelings to me. And, of

02:49:31.700 --> 02:49:33.680
course, the compassion is one of them, right?

02:49:33.760 --> 02:49:36.200
Like, I worry about the world. I want the world

02:49:36.200 --> 02:49:38.760
to be a beautiful place for him, right? I actually

02:49:38.760 --> 02:49:42.239
care about the humans. And, I don't know, this

02:49:42.239 --> 02:49:44.700
part is, like, this is edited. The first time

02:49:44.700 --> 02:49:48.719
that I knew what love was and unconditional love

02:49:48.719 --> 02:49:52.719
was, did you, I saw that you had Rick Doblin

02:49:52.719 --> 02:49:56.819
here. Yes. I had one of those experiences, like,

02:49:56.899 --> 02:50:01.190
unplanned. Nobody knew. The MDMA? Is that what

02:50:01.190 --> 02:50:06.250
it was? In California. But until then, people

02:50:06.250 --> 02:50:08.549
told him, oh, I love you. I was like, if you

02:50:08.549 --> 02:50:10.770
don't sleep with me, rape me, want something,

02:50:10.889 --> 02:50:13.209
why would you love me, right? I never understood

02:50:13.209 --> 02:50:16.770
that unconditional love between humans. Never

02:50:16.770 --> 02:50:20.530
felt safe. You never felt love with friends?

02:50:20.930 --> 02:50:26.190
No. I learned love later in life, so I knew the

02:50:26.190 --> 02:50:30.129
word, but I did not actually ever felt it. So

02:50:30.129 --> 02:50:33.829
when I was on that, for the first time, all I

02:50:33.829 --> 02:50:38.489
felt was love and zero, zero fear. And that's

02:50:38.489 --> 02:50:40.969
when I was like, I know that when these people

02:50:40.969 --> 02:50:43.129
say they love me, actually this is how they feel,

02:50:43.190 --> 02:50:46.790
actually. It's possible to love somebody unconditionally.

02:50:47.579 --> 02:50:50.520
And after that, I became pregnant because I wasn't

02:50:50.520 --> 02:50:53.100
able to get pregnant. From all the trauma I had,

02:50:53.200 --> 02:50:58.280
I had three IVF cycles at 22. And after that

02:50:58.280 --> 02:51:01.780
medicine, something relaxed in my body, I was

02:51:01.780 --> 02:51:05.700
able to conceive, and I had my son. I think a

02:51:05.700 --> 02:51:07.440
lot of people could benefit from one of those

02:51:07.440 --> 02:51:10.059
experiences. I think it would change a lot about

02:51:10.059 --> 02:51:12.239
the way we look at life, the way we look at each

02:51:12.239 --> 02:51:14.979
other, and would just eliminate a lot of the

02:51:14.979 --> 02:51:17.899
anger that people have, a lot of the misplaced

02:51:17.899 --> 02:51:24.799
anger, unproductive, unhelpful, corrosive, dangerous

02:51:24.799 --> 02:51:27.879
anger for no reason. There's so much of it, and

02:51:27.879 --> 02:51:30.799
so much of it is so confusing, and so much of

02:51:30.799 --> 02:51:34.190
it is based on... Our own insecurities and our

02:51:34.190 --> 02:51:36.469
fear that other people won't love us back. Yeah.

02:51:36.750 --> 02:51:40.209
And if you do one of those experiences with other

02:51:40.209 --> 02:51:41.930
people and you're all in it together, you realize,

02:51:42.030 --> 02:51:44.510
wow, so the world could be like this all the

02:51:44.510 --> 02:51:46.809
time? Exactly. The world can be so different,

02:51:46.930 --> 02:51:50.069
isn't it? Yeah. Everything can be understood.

02:51:50.729 --> 02:51:53.389
That's the thing. In the center of everything,

02:51:53.469 --> 02:51:56.229
there's love. And I did not know what love was

02:51:56.229 --> 02:51:58.090
in the time of my life. That's the thing. When

02:51:58.090 --> 02:52:01.100
people ask me, If you can be on North Korean

02:52:01.100 --> 02:52:04.200
television, what would you tell them? I think

02:52:04.200 --> 02:52:06.399
I would tell them I love you because they never

02:52:06.399 --> 02:52:08.479
heard that before. They might not know even what

02:52:08.479 --> 02:52:10.620
I'm saying, what the heck she's saying. She loves

02:52:10.620 --> 02:52:13.579
me, right? Right. But I think that's the thing.

02:52:13.600 --> 02:52:16.899
I did not know what it was. But everything that

02:52:16.899 --> 02:52:19.620
we do for love, we have children for love, right?

02:52:19.680 --> 02:52:21.600
Why do we even live? Everything, the point of

02:52:21.600 --> 02:52:24.600
life is love. Right. And I did not know that

02:52:24.600 --> 02:52:29.290
until I had the point. That's why I cannot be

02:52:29.290 --> 02:52:32.270
bitter. I love men. My son is a man. My father

02:52:32.270 --> 02:52:34.370
was a man. Even though a lot of experiences I

02:52:34.370 --> 02:52:37.889
had with men was negative, that I was able to

02:52:37.889 --> 02:52:41.209
overcome it. But I think a lot of people cannot

02:52:41.209 --> 02:52:43.530
overcome that trauma because they're just not

02:52:43.530 --> 02:52:46.069
able to make that connection. It's one of the

02:52:46.069 --> 02:52:48.250
terrifying lessons of being a human being is

02:52:48.250 --> 02:52:51.770
that there can be wonderful, loving experiences

02:52:51.770 --> 02:52:55.090
at the same time where horrific things are happening

02:52:55.090 --> 02:52:58.469
somewhere else. you know better than anybody

02:52:58.469 --> 02:53:03.430
alive because of the country where you were born.

02:53:03.569 --> 02:53:05.729
I mean, that's happening right now, that there's

02:53:05.729 --> 02:53:07.709
a place where there is no love and everyone's

02:53:07.709 --> 02:53:11.329
afraid. And there's just this horrific regime

02:53:11.329 --> 02:53:14.129
that's running this country and keeping people

02:53:14.129 --> 02:53:17.069
starving. And it's happening at the same time

02:53:17.069 --> 02:53:20.209
as iPhones and the internet and electric cars

02:53:20.209 --> 02:53:23.190
and all the wonderful things that we're experiencing

02:53:23.190 --> 02:53:27.149
here in America. It's the worst example of human

02:53:27.149 --> 02:53:30.549
life, and it exists simultaneously. I know. It's

02:53:30.549 --> 02:53:33.629
a thing. I thought if I can show them, tell them

02:53:33.629 --> 02:53:35.229
what's happening, I thought something's going

02:53:35.229 --> 02:53:38.569
to change, right? But of course not. It's not.

02:53:39.170 --> 02:53:41.610
And there's a reason why these problems keep

02:53:41.610 --> 02:53:44.790
existing. But the thing is, I saw that one of

02:53:44.790 --> 02:53:48.030
the interviews we did with Elon Musk, right?

02:53:48.290 --> 02:53:51.309
I have to be hopeful because what's the alternative?

02:53:52.209 --> 02:53:54.610
Yes. What is the alternative to being hopeful?

02:53:54.809 --> 02:53:56.729
Nothing else. That's the thing. That's why even

02:53:56.729 --> 02:53:58.770
though I don't know people are going to now listen

02:53:58.770 --> 02:54:01.969
to me and help me to raise awareness and condemn

02:54:01.969 --> 02:54:04.770
Chinese regime to stop sponsor Kim Jong -un.

02:54:04.770 --> 02:54:07.469
I don't know that's going to happen, but I got

02:54:07.469 --> 02:54:09.709
to be hopeful. That's the only thing we have

02:54:09.709 --> 02:54:12.370
as a humanity. We got to be hopeful and we can

02:54:12.370 --> 02:54:15.389
do so much when we keep that hope alive. It's

02:54:15.389 --> 02:54:19.020
just terrifying that it's ignored. by the powers

02:54:19.020 --> 02:54:21.399
that be in not just this country but many countries

02:54:21.399 --> 02:54:23.340
that they're not all just standing up and saying

02:54:23.340 --> 02:54:25.399
that this is an atrocity that's happening inside

02:54:25.399 --> 02:54:27.459
of our lifetime we're doing nothing about it

02:54:27.459 --> 02:54:31.399
it's a thing like I have no problem when people

02:54:31.399 --> 02:54:33.979
are going, like, at the Canada goods store, putting

02:54:33.979 --> 02:54:36.120
the, like, blood on them, like in New York, Seoul,

02:54:36.260 --> 02:54:38.639
right? I remember when I was in South Korea.

02:54:38.959 --> 02:54:42.219
This is on TV. There's a national concert with

02:54:42.219 --> 02:54:45.219
the celebrities and singing and crying. I thought,

02:54:45.239 --> 02:54:47.739
like, okay, big disaster happened, right? Why

02:54:47.739 --> 02:54:49.579
are these people all emotional and crying? And

02:54:49.579 --> 02:54:53.319
it was a fundraising for the dogs and puppies.

02:54:54.639 --> 02:54:57.000
People eating animals? No, no. It was just like

02:54:57.000 --> 02:54:59.639
their environment, how shelter, like environment

02:54:59.639 --> 02:55:02.399
is hard for these animals. How it's not clean,

02:55:02.540 --> 02:55:05.059
how they don't, you know. Animal shelters, right.

02:55:05.159 --> 02:55:08.040
So they were crying and I was initially shocked.

02:55:08.319 --> 02:55:11.600
Like, what do you mean animals have rights? As

02:55:11.600 --> 02:55:14.940
a human being, I did not know I had the rights

02:55:14.940 --> 02:55:18.139
as a human. Right, right, right. And what the

02:55:18.139 --> 02:55:20.760
F really? Like animals, puppies have rights here?

02:55:21.340 --> 02:55:25.360
And then... On top of that, I go meet so many

02:55:25.360 --> 02:55:27.840
people, the philanthropists, and they are willing

02:55:27.840 --> 02:55:31.420
to give millions of dollars to save animals and

02:55:31.420 --> 02:55:34.120
dolphins and little ducks that don't die from

02:55:34.120 --> 02:55:37.139
Canada goose, but they do not want to rescue

02:55:37.139 --> 02:55:40.180
these girls who are raped every single day. And

02:55:40.180 --> 02:55:43.500
somehow, I think it's anti -human sentiment.

02:55:43.819 --> 02:55:46.780
I don't know even what that is. The fact that

02:55:46.780 --> 02:55:48.979
we care about animals is a beautiful thing, isn't

02:55:48.979 --> 02:55:51.930
it? We care that something cannot speak for themselves.

02:55:52.250 --> 02:55:54.850
They are vulnerable. And there are people, a

02:55:54.850 --> 02:55:57.010
lot of people cannot speak for themselves right

02:55:57.010 --> 02:55:59.590
now. As you said, being free is an exception.

02:55:59.870 --> 02:56:02.510
This is a very unusual thing. Even to this age,

02:56:02.569 --> 02:56:06.030
like 4 billion people living under some authoritarian

02:56:06.030 --> 02:56:10.010
dictatorship countries. So what we got is really

02:56:10.010 --> 02:56:13.290
unique. And people somehow refuse to speak for

02:56:13.290 --> 02:56:15.250
another human being. they would rather speak

02:56:15.250 --> 02:56:18.930
for a little puppy and it's very the hypocrisy

02:56:18.930 --> 02:56:21.129
that doesn't make sense like if someone's suffering

02:56:21.129 --> 02:56:24.250
that bothers you why the human suffering doesn't

02:56:24.250 --> 02:56:28.770
bother you i think it's so big and so insurmountable

02:56:28.770 --> 02:56:30.690
that they don't feel like they can do anything

02:56:30.690 --> 02:56:33.569
about it and so they're scared and so they don't

02:56:33.569 --> 02:56:36.690
speak about it because to actually do something

02:56:36.690 --> 02:56:40.329
would require an enormous effort, to do something

02:56:40.329 --> 02:56:43.329
to change the regime of North Korea. What does

02:56:43.329 --> 02:56:45.530
a person who lives in Berkeley, who loves to

02:56:45.530 --> 02:56:49.030
support social justice causes, how is that person

02:56:49.030 --> 02:56:52.350
going to affect the dictatorship that's happening

02:56:52.350 --> 02:56:54.370
right now in North Korea? It feels like they

02:56:54.370 --> 02:56:56.450
can't do anything about it. They can tweet about

02:56:56.450 --> 02:56:58.969
what's happening that China does to North Koreans.

02:56:59.329 --> 02:57:01.030
Yeah, they're scared to even tweet about China.

02:57:01.209 --> 02:57:04.590
They'd rather tweet calling some white guy racist.

02:57:05.199 --> 02:57:08.680
inherently or this person or that or that person

02:57:08.680 --> 02:57:13.000
or this and come up with some sort of insults

02:57:13.000 --> 02:57:15.219
for people that don't agree with what they agree

02:57:15.219 --> 02:57:21.459
with. It seems too big. It seems like they can't

02:57:21.459 --> 02:57:23.579
put a dent in it. But that's a lie that they

02:57:23.579 --> 02:57:26.500
are telling themselves. Little things, even little

02:57:26.500 --> 02:57:28.829
tweets would help. I think a lot of people don't

02:57:28.829 --> 02:57:30.770
even know about it. Exactly. That's the thing.

02:57:30.770 --> 02:57:33.010
The mainstream doesn't give a platform to the

02:57:33.010 --> 02:57:35.469
people who want to challenge the CCP. Right.

02:57:35.569 --> 02:57:38.450
So, I mean, these girls were captured by Taliban,

02:57:38.590 --> 02:57:41.209
ISIS. A few hundred thousand people were oppressed,

02:57:41.370 --> 02:57:43.549
gets Nobel Peace Prize, right? Yeah. There are

02:57:43.549 --> 02:57:46.889
like 25 million people oppressed. When did you

02:57:46.889 --> 02:57:49.709
hear anybody world recognizes from North Korea

02:57:49.709 --> 02:57:52.110
or anything for this cause? What did you think

02:57:52.110 --> 02:57:57.329
when Trump met with Kim Jong -un? We did Trump,

02:57:57.350 --> 02:58:01.149
right? That's the thing. It seems like Trump

02:58:01.149 --> 02:58:03.430
got everything do wrong or everything got to

02:58:03.430 --> 02:58:05.750
be right, right? I mean, everybody, nobody's

02:58:05.750 --> 02:58:08.729
perfect. I do think Trump was really right on

02:58:08.729 --> 02:58:11.389
calling out China. He was the first president

02:58:11.389 --> 02:58:13.770
to actually talk about to Xi Jinping that you

02:58:13.770 --> 02:58:15.549
got to fix North Korea because you enables it.

02:58:16.010 --> 02:58:18.129
That was the first president ever mentioned China

02:58:18.129 --> 02:58:22.170
with North Korea. That was great. But sitting

02:58:22.170 --> 02:58:25.010
down with Kim Jong -un without any preconception.

02:58:25.250 --> 02:58:27.690
Because think about it. Inside North Korea, there

02:58:27.690 --> 02:58:31.049
are military powerful men. And they think if

02:58:31.049 --> 02:58:33.170
Kim Jong -un is backed by American president,

02:58:33.489 --> 02:58:36.389
they're not going to start a coup or do anything

02:58:36.389 --> 02:58:39.350
about it. So for Kim Jong -un, it was a very

02:58:39.350 --> 02:58:42.170
good opportunity to legitimize his power within

02:58:42.170 --> 02:58:44.940
the country. inside North Korea to consolidate

02:58:44.940 --> 02:58:47.920
power. Because until that point, even Xi Jinping

02:58:47.920 --> 02:58:50.360
didn't invite Kim Jong -un to China over, even

02:58:50.360 --> 02:58:53.280
once. So Kim Jong -un was more like this young

02:58:53.280 --> 02:58:56.540
man, nobody accepted. But Trump wanted to meet

02:58:56.540 --> 02:58:58.420
with Kim Jong -un, so Xi Jinping invited Kim

02:58:58.420 --> 02:59:00.440
Jong -un to over first before Trump meeting.

02:59:00.760 --> 02:59:03.159
So that's how he went to China for the first

02:59:03.159 --> 02:59:06.059
time. Meeting Xi Jinping. Because he knew that

02:59:06.059 --> 02:59:08.379
Trump was going to meet him. So, I mean, of course,

02:59:08.420 --> 02:59:10.620
China won't have influence beforehand. That's

02:59:10.620 --> 02:59:13.420
why right before the meeting, he went to China

02:59:13.420 --> 02:59:16.020
first. And until that point, China didn't even

02:59:16.020 --> 02:59:18.360
invite Kim Jong -un. It was too low for them.

02:59:18.540 --> 02:59:21.620
Really? Yeah, it was their little brother's puppet

02:59:21.620 --> 02:59:24.540
state. So they would not treat Kim Jong -un like

02:59:24.540 --> 02:59:26.979
a leader. He didn't even get the invitation to

02:59:26.979 --> 02:59:29.719
visit China. Is there a real possibility that

02:59:29.719 --> 02:59:32.860
someone could overthrow him from within inside

02:59:32.860 --> 02:59:35.239
the country? It's impossible because China is

02:59:35.239 --> 02:59:39.340
behind it. China is fully behind. You know, China

02:59:39.340 --> 02:59:44.500
lent this land for 200 years, 50 years on these

02:59:44.500 --> 02:59:47.879
mine towns, mining, blah, blah. Everything is

02:59:47.879 --> 02:59:51.180
lent to China. So North Korea is not Chinese.

02:59:51.739 --> 02:59:54.440
And the labor is free for the Chinese to use.

02:59:55.709 --> 02:59:58.809
So everything is now Chinese in North Korea.

02:59:58.889 --> 03:00:01.469
It's China, basically. Nothing is North Korea

03:00:01.469 --> 03:00:05.069
anymore. Wow. In his mind, everything is like

03:00:05.069 --> 03:00:07.989
land, like 200 years. That's the least they have.

03:00:08.270 --> 03:00:10.430
I mean, how many generations that change in 200

03:00:10.430 --> 03:00:14.190
years' time? Right. So it's China. North Korea

03:00:14.190 --> 03:00:17.090
is China. There is really no distinction at this

03:00:17.090 --> 03:00:20.950
point. And China is very clever in the way they've...

03:00:22.619 --> 03:00:25.200
They have all these interests in all different

03:00:25.200 --> 03:00:27.819
parts of the world, in Africa and all these different

03:00:27.819 --> 03:00:31.979
mines. It's all through economic power. That's

03:00:31.979 --> 03:00:35.100
how they disable them and enslave to their ideology,

03:00:35.180 --> 03:00:37.079
and then they cannot speak up, and that's happening

03:00:37.079 --> 03:00:39.780
to Americans. Even Ivy League schools get funding

03:00:39.780 --> 03:00:42.799
from China. So all these researches, like papers,

03:00:42.920 --> 03:00:45.440
they don't do things that challenge their narrative.

03:00:46.140 --> 03:00:48.879
And the media, Hollywood, they need the money

03:00:48.879 --> 03:00:51.280
from China, so they are not going to do anything

03:00:51.280 --> 03:00:54.979
about it. So that's how slowly they infiltrated

03:00:54.979 --> 03:00:57.979
every sector that we have right now. You know,

03:00:58.020 --> 03:01:02.280
part of me is very upset that more people have

03:01:02.280 --> 03:01:05.280
not talked to you. Well, because I'm a liar.

03:01:07.879 --> 03:01:11.719
Because I'm a liar. I'm the propaganda puppet

03:01:11.719 --> 03:01:17.549
of the West. CIA trained me. That's what they

03:01:17.549 --> 03:01:20.190
say. Oh, yeah. So when I was starting giving

03:01:20.190 --> 03:01:22.809
interviews in the beginning, they're like 15

03:01:22.809 --> 03:01:25.510
and 13, the age difference that I did not know.

03:01:25.569 --> 03:01:28.809
Right. And then like the mountain I climbed,

03:01:28.969 --> 03:01:32.329
they went to Google Maps somewhere and check

03:01:32.329 --> 03:01:35.569
the altitude. So basically, scientific altitude,

03:01:35.750 --> 03:01:38.069
I should not have said it was a mountain. It

03:01:38.069 --> 03:01:41.549
was a high hill. But as a child, I don't know

03:01:41.549 --> 03:01:43.870
what altitude is a hill or mountain. I still

03:01:43.870 --> 03:01:45.809
don't know the difference. So I said the mountain

03:01:45.809 --> 03:01:47.950
that she's alive because what she climbed was

03:01:47.950 --> 03:01:50.649
a hill. So they try to get you on a technicality.

03:01:50.649 --> 03:01:52.770
Yeah. With that, with the altitude of the hill,

03:01:52.889 --> 03:01:54.729
and then also on a technicality with the age,

03:01:54.809 --> 03:01:57.010
which you explained. So she's trying to change

03:01:57.010 --> 03:02:00.149
her life. But one thing I did hide was that I

03:02:00.149 --> 03:02:03.450
trafficked in China. Because in South Korea,

03:02:03.610 --> 03:02:07.120
girls, virginity is everything. And I wasn't

03:02:07.120 --> 03:02:08.840
planning to come to America, right? I didn't

03:02:08.840 --> 03:02:11.159
even have a right to come here. I was South Korean.

03:02:11.260 --> 03:02:13.920
I wanted to have a child. I wanted a family.

03:02:14.559 --> 03:02:18.100
And if I say I was raped two years by a human

03:02:18.100 --> 03:02:21.420
trafficker, who's going to normal same family

03:02:21.420 --> 03:02:24.540
going to take me? Right. So I had to lie that

03:02:24.540 --> 03:02:27.399
I said I was okay. My mom only raped and she

03:02:27.399 --> 03:02:30.159
covered me. And when I was writing my book, I

03:02:30.159 --> 03:02:32.459
knew, I mean, of course, Penguin is not stupid.

03:02:33.920 --> 03:02:36.500
took a legal team the people with me and then

03:02:36.500 --> 03:02:39.000
got the live recording of people who crossed

03:02:39.000 --> 03:02:41.079
desert with me who grew up with me everybody

03:02:41.079 --> 03:02:43.840
so they got the live recording in the legal team

03:02:43.840 --> 03:02:46.239
so that's why after the book there's not even

03:02:46.239 --> 03:02:48.219
one single accusation because they were going

03:02:48.219 --> 03:02:50.760
to sue afterwards like we have entire evidence

03:02:50.760 --> 03:02:54.280
so it was all everything before the book and

03:02:54.280 --> 03:02:58.059
also that is the thing is uh i mean a lot of

03:02:58.059 --> 03:03:01.180
maoist leninists they sympathize north korean

03:03:01.180 --> 03:03:04.750
regime right So many people hate America. And

03:03:04.750 --> 03:03:07.170
I'm here saying America is the best country in

03:03:07.170 --> 03:03:11.229
human history. Of course, I now became the symbol

03:03:11.229 --> 03:03:15.569
of this bigotry. But I'm just shocked that more

03:03:15.569 --> 03:03:17.829
people in America are not talking to you, that

03:03:17.829 --> 03:03:19.909
more of these mainstream outlets don't want to

03:03:19.909 --> 03:03:22.790
hear your story. Because of China, my story is

03:03:22.790 --> 03:03:27.129
very inconvenient. Because I'm a slave. Actually,

03:03:27.170 --> 03:03:30.690
I was a slave. And I was bought by Chinese and

03:03:30.690 --> 03:03:33.909
exploited by them. So how do they cover my story

03:03:33.909 --> 03:03:37.469
without including China peace? It's impossibility.

03:03:37.870 --> 03:03:40.569
I can't believe that that's keeping people like

03:03:40.569 --> 03:03:42.389
the Washington Post or the New York Times. Of

03:03:42.389 --> 03:03:44.969
course it is. I know, but it's hard to believe

03:03:44.969 --> 03:03:50.469
that this isn't just a human story, a staggering

03:03:50.469 --> 03:03:53.370
human story, an amazing human story in terms

03:03:53.370 --> 03:03:56.010
of the education that you've had, the experiences

03:03:56.010 --> 03:03:58.809
that you've had, the way you've changed and evolved.

03:03:59.819 --> 03:04:02.399
having escaped from North Korea into China and

03:04:02.399 --> 03:04:04.139
then to South Korea and then eventually to America

03:04:04.139 --> 03:04:06.340
and experienced all these things from this very

03:04:06.340 --> 03:04:08.260
unique perspective. I mean, it's an incredible

03:04:08.260 --> 03:04:11.579
story. But no, because they expect me to become

03:04:11.579 --> 03:04:14.719
now a victim, right? Because they expect me to

03:04:14.719 --> 03:04:18.959
hate all the men and the system and not, but

03:04:18.959 --> 03:04:22.129
like I... do not tell like i'm not a victim i'm

03:04:22.129 --> 03:04:24.729
very grateful like my book stars that there are

03:04:24.729 --> 03:04:26.690
two things i'm grateful for that i was born in

03:04:26.690 --> 03:04:31.110
north korea and that i escaped so it's like i

03:04:31.110 --> 03:04:33.549
don't fit the narrative they are trying to portray

03:04:33.549 --> 03:04:36.649
in any way wow just that's very disappointing

03:04:36.649 --> 03:04:38.530
to me that there is a narrative that they want

03:04:38.530 --> 03:04:41.850
you to portray because your actual story is a

03:04:41.850 --> 03:04:44.809
very human story and it's a it's a contemporary

03:04:44.809 --> 03:04:47.110
story that's very important when you look at

03:04:47.110 --> 03:04:50.209
the way the world is is being run certain parts

03:04:50.209 --> 03:04:53.629
of it like north korea or like china it's this

03:04:53.629 --> 03:04:57.209
is this is from a person like yourself no one

03:04:57.209 --> 03:04:59.870
else is going to be able to tell that story your

03:04:59.870 --> 03:05:04.209
story is it's impossible for anyone that hasn't

03:05:04.209 --> 03:05:08.069
experienced it to tell it has to be you yeah

03:05:08.069 --> 03:05:10.450
but then that's why i'm grateful despite all

03:05:10.450 --> 03:05:14.610
that you know North Korea did everything they

03:05:14.610 --> 03:05:17.709
could to character assassinate me. Because that's

03:05:17.709 --> 03:05:20.309
what they have the biggest hackers. And they

03:05:20.309 --> 03:05:24.670
have the armies of hackings and go harass people.

03:05:24.909 --> 03:05:27.149
And hacked the Sony studio, remember, when they

03:05:27.149 --> 03:05:29.549
made the movie. So they're exactly the same thing.

03:05:29.610 --> 03:05:31.569
They were reaching out to Penguin, my editors.

03:05:31.629 --> 03:05:34.610
Like, we're going to blow Penguin if you write

03:05:34.610 --> 03:05:37.809
this book. And there was so much harassment.

03:05:38.649 --> 03:05:41.229
And internally, we were so scared. Penguin people

03:05:41.229 --> 03:05:42.690
were like, we don't want to lose our job. We

03:05:42.690 --> 03:05:45.350
don't want to blow up. They don't even talk about

03:05:45.350 --> 03:05:47.370
in the public that you get attacked from North

03:05:47.370 --> 03:05:50.770
Korean regime. North Koreans diplomat in London

03:05:50.770 --> 03:05:52.809
was reaching out to my editor to sit down and

03:05:52.809 --> 03:05:57.610
meet them in person to stop the book. And of

03:05:57.610 --> 03:06:00.069
course, everything is written on media. That's

03:06:00.069 --> 03:06:02.149
all believable, right? Everything is written

03:06:02.149 --> 03:06:06.219
and people just believe whatever it was. So now

03:06:06.219 --> 03:06:08.579
that's what North Korea is so good at, creating

03:06:08.579 --> 03:06:11.799
this narrative and character assassin people.

03:06:12.200 --> 03:06:13.440
And eventually it doesn't work, they're going

03:06:13.440 --> 03:06:15.639
to kill you directly. And that's what they did.

03:06:15.680 --> 03:06:17.979
Initially they were threatening me and stopped

03:06:17.979 --> 03:06:20.440
talking about it, and then I still did. So they

03:06:20.440 --> 03:06:24.340
put entire three generations of my family on

03:06:24.340 --> 03:06:27.700
that North Korean propaganda channel. And they

03:06:27.700 --> 03:06:30.280
made them to denounce me. And they were gone.

03:06:32.659 --> 03:06:36.350
They're gone? Yeah. Because I still have agents

03:06:36.350 --> 03:06:40.010
in North Korea, and they all disappeared. So

03:06:40.010 --> 03:06:42.409
they were all killed. Yeah. I mean, concentration

03:06:42.409 --> 03:06:45.829
camp means death. So even including my neighbors,

03:06:46.030 --> 03:06:49.489
I think that was so unbelievable. I mean, what's

03:06:49.489 --> 03:06:51.950
the crime of being a neighbor? They were not

03:06:51.950 --> 03:06:55.610
even that close to me. But these neighbors, the

03:06:55.610 --> 03:06:57.569
fact that they knew me, that was their crime.

03:06:59.030 --> 03:07:04.159
And this video is on YouTube. And so they went

03:07:04.159 --> 03:07:06.920
after everyone you knew. Yeah, everybody I knew.

03:07:07.159 --> 03:07:11.700
Everybody I knew. In my entire town, my father's

03:07:11.700 --> 03:07:14.940
side, mother's side, entire generation. And my

03:07:14.940 --> 03:07:20.219
cousin that I raised. And, yeah, that's the thing.

03:07:20.260 --> 03:07:23.719
I knew this was an evil regime. But I somehow

03:07:23.719 --> 03:07:25.840
thought, like, how can they be threatened by

03:07:25.840 --> 03:07:29.229
13 years old? I'm not even sharing how North

03:07:29.229 --> 03:07:31.629
Korea develops their missile program, right?

03:07:31.729 --> 03:07:35.069
All I'm saying is what the UN says. Like, there

03:07:35.069 --> 03:07:37.469
is a public execution. You see from satellite

03:07:37.469 --> 03:07:40.750
photos, you see. And there's like 33 ,000 North

03:07:40.750 --> 03:07:43.030
Korean defectors made to South Korea. They talk

03:07:43.030 --> 03:07:47.129
about starvation. And then that we get captured

03:07:47.129 --> 03:07:48.870
in China and being sold, and there's documentaries

03:07:48.870 --> 03:07:52.049
about it. So I'm not even sharing the first -class

03:07:52.049 --> 03:07:54.389
information. I just didn't think they were going

03:07:54.389 --> 03:07:57.479
to be threatened. I just really didn't think

03:07:57.479 --> 03:07:59.979
that I was going to be a threat to them at all.

03:08:01.579 --> 03:08:04.440
And, well, they don't, like, allow any dissent.

03:08:05.659 --> 03:08:07.459
What do you think is going to happen with that

03:08:07.459 --> 03:08:13.260
country? Like China, they can last a lot longer.

03:08:13.399 --> 03:08:15.540
They might last longer than us. They might beat

03:08:15.540 --> 03:08:22.100
us. Because that's the thing, like, it's, as

03:08:22.100 --> 03:08:26.040
you said, people become softer. And they do not

03:08:26.040 --> 03:08:28.680
know how to be resilient, right? And also, as

03:08:28.680 --> 03:08:31.840
you said, people here surrounding such a goodness

03:08:31.840 --> 03:08:34.920
of the world, they don't recognize, they don't

03:08:34.920 --> 03:08:38.879
even know how evil can be a man be like, right?

03:08:38.940 --> 03:08:42.959
A regime can be like. They don't know how cruel

03:08:42.959 --> 03:08:45.420
these regimes are. They don't even recognize

03:08:45.420 --> 03:08:49.280
the darkness they see. So I think because our

03:08:49.280 --> 03:08:52.079
inability to recognize this crime and darkness,

03:08:52.379 --> 03:08:57.420
I think... they might outlast us so that is my

03:08:57.420 --> 03:09:01.340
biggest fear and so you have a genuine concern

03:09:01.340 --> 03:09:04.799
that this country could collapse yeah i mean

03:09:04.799 --> 03:09:07.940
every civilian civilization collapsed persians

03:09:07.940 --> 03:09:10.700
i mean how many civilization before us came right

03:09:10.700 --> 03:09:14.719
exactly so there shouldn't be any exception to

03:09:14.719 --> 03:09:18.500
western civilization If we do not push and guard

03:09:18.500 --> 03:09:21.159
this civilization, the enlightenment that we

03:09:21.159 --> 03:09:23.040
got. Especially if you pay attention to what's

03:09:23.040 --> 03:09:25.020
going on right now. Of course. And especially

03:09:25.020 --> 03:09:27.120
the way it's emanating from the universities,

03:09:27.120 --> 03:09:31.379
which is what's teaching and, you know, putting

03:09:31.379 --> 03:09:33.420
ideas in the minds of young people who will then

03:09:33.420 --> 03:09:35.780
go on to run things. This foundation is corrupt.

03:09:35.979 --> 03:09:39.940
The only way that is for us to change is getting

03:09:39.940 --> 03:09:42.540
rid of the Western civilization, getting rid

03:09:42.540 --> 03:09:46.270
of American Constitution. Wait, it's not like

03:09:46.270 --> 03:09:48.909
I'm saying like every class you set up at Columbia,

03:09:49.049 --> 03:09:51.829
that's how they end the class, right? Every problem

03:09:51.829 --> 03:09:54.110
goes going back to root, getting rid of white

03:09:54.110 --> 03:09:56.149
men. They are the problem. They are the source

03:09:56.149 --> 03:09:58.989
of every single problem that we have. They mess

03:09:58.989 --> 03:10:01.090
up Africa. They mess up Asia. They mess up every

03:10:01.090 --> 03:10:04.809
single thing. And like one class I remember at

03:10:04.809 --> 03:10:07.450
the end of senior year, taking the music class,

03:10:07.610 --> 03:10:09.670
right? It should be the least political. Western

03:10:09.670 --> 03:10:11.709
music is a core, one of the core curriculum.

03:10:11.930 --> 03:10:14.649
And the professor asking, who has a problem studying

03:10:14.649 --> 03:10:17.389
Western music? And of course, everybody raised

03:10:17.389 --> 03:10:20.430
their hands. Because of the spigots like Mozart

03:10:20.430 --> 03:10:23.030
and Beethoven, they silence all the minority

03:10:23.030 --> 03:10:25.389
groups. We have to listen to the spigots right

03:10:25.389 --> 03:10:27.790
now. And it's the fact that Colombia having this

03:10:27.790 --> 03:10:31.760
core is like a shame. And so I'm like, I'm studying

03:10:31.760 --> 03:10:34.340
the West. What's the problem studying Western

03:10:34.340 --> 03:10:38.299
music in the West? Right? Well, not only that,

03:10:38.379 --> 03:10:40.520
you're studying musical history. You can't deny

03:10:40.520 --> 03:10:42.899
the history. You can't deny that these people

03:10:42.899 --> 03:10:47.219
made this music. It doesn't absolve anyone of

03:10:47.219 --> 03:10:49.780
any crimes that they committed if they committed

03:10:49.780 --> 03:10:53.829
crimes. Yeah. But to deny it all. Yeah. They

03:10:53.829 --> 03:10:56.389
say like reading Jane Austen is like a hidden

03:10:56.389 --> 03:10:58.110
oppression that we don't see because she was

03:10:58.110 --> 03:11:01.229
living in a time of white colonialism and white

03:11:01.229 --> 03:11:04.489
supremacy. So the fact that you read Jane Austen

03:11:04.489 --> 03:11:07.129
is you get subconsciously brainwashed. This is

03:11:07.129 --> 03:11:11.870
how you need to look for hidden oppression. Oh,

03:11:11.930 --> 03:11:18.030
my God. Oh, it's so disturbing. It's so real,

03:11:18.049 --> 03:11:19.450
though. I mean, that's really what's happening

03:11:19.450 --> 03:11:21.860
right now. And people are paying. hundreds of

03:11:21.860 --> 03:11:23.959
thousands of dollars to have your children indoctrinated

03:11:23.959 --> 03:11:28.819
into these ideas. Yeah. I don't know where we're

03:11:28.819 --> 03:11:31.520
going to end up in 10 years. I don't know. I

03:11:31.520 --> 03:11:34.440
don't know. I don't know either. But I really

03:11:34.440 --> 03:11:36.219
enjoyed talking to you. Thank you very much.

03:11:36.280 --> 03:11:38.780
You're a very, very brave person. And I think

03:11:38.780 --> 03:11:43.920
that your message is, it's very important. And

03:11:43.920 --> 03:11:47.920
it's also, there's no one else who can tell it.

03:11:48.319 --> 03:11:51.379
It has to be someone like you who's gone through

03:11:51.379 --> 03:11:54.100
what you've gone through. And I think it's huge

03:11:54.100 --> 03:11:58.659
for the world to hear. It's incredibly significant.

03:11:59.840 --> 03:12:02.600
And I hope more people want to talk to you. No,

03:12:02.639 --> 03:12:06.159
I think I'm so grateful that in the desert, when

03:12:06.159 --> 03:12:08.899
I was crossing the desert, my father died a few

03:12:08.899 --> 03:12:11.379
months from a cancer he had in the concentration

03:12:11.379 --> 03:12:15.299
camp. And he died, and I had nobody to call,

03:12:15.440 --> 03:12:19.000
right? He died in the morning, 7 a .m., waiting

03:12:19.000 --> 03:12:22.579
till night so I can, like, bury him in the middle

03:12:22.579 --> 03:12:24.959
of a mountain. And I couldn't even cry because

03:12:24.959 --> 03:12:27.100
if you cry, people, neighbors are going to hear.

03:12:28.180 --> 03:12:31.440
So I'm numb, like, sitting next to a dead body.

03:12:31.719 --> 03:12:34.399
And I was thinking, wow, like, being a human

03:12:34.399 --> 03:12:37.219
means nothing. Like, even dog dies. You go to

03:12:37.219 --> 03:12:39.200
your neighbor and ask them, like, your dog died.

03:12:40.139 --> 03:12:42.639
And in that desert, that's the thing, I wasn't

03:12:42.639 --> 03:12:45.899
afraid of dying. I was just thinking, nobody

03:12:45.899 --> 03:12:49.819
knew that I existed. Nobody knew that I came

03:12:49.819 --> 03:12:52.059
to this earth and left in this middle of desert.

03:12:52.579 --> 03:12:55.159
And that's the thing, nobody knows that North

03:12:55.159 --> 03:12:59.600
Koreans exist. Nobody knows our stories. So I

03:12:59.600 --> 03:13:03.040
think the fact that people know my father and

03:13:03.040 --> 03:13:07.459
my people is the biggest comfort for me. You

03:13:07.459 --> 03:13:09.860
know, I think that even... That's not even given

03:13:09.860 --> 03:13:13.600
to us. They don't know we exist. So I'm so grateful

03:13:13.600 --> 03:13:16.500
that you gave me this opportunity. Well, I'm

03:13:16.500 --> 03:13:18.760
very grateful that you came here just to talk

03:13:18.760 --> 03:13:22.079
about it and to tell people. And I'm glad a lot

03:13:22.079 --> 03:13:23.680
of people are going to hear this. Thank you.

03:13:23.760 --> 03:13:27.879
Thank you. Thank you. All right. Goodbye, everybody.