Welcome to this curated educational transcript of the Joe Rogan Experience. In this session, we provide a deep-dive examination of the critical perspectives and historical dialogues presented in Episode #1600. Our mission is to offer a high-fidelity, searchable research resource for students of cultural history, emerging technology, and global discourse. This transcript has been specifically optimized for academic reference, linguistic study, and archival preservation regarding Artificial Intelligence, Robotics, and the Philosophy of Love and Consciousness. Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan
Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by
night, all day. Rex, I had a surprise for you,
but it didn't work out. I had a suit and a tie,
and I was going to come in dressed like you.
Exactly. Yes, full on white shirt, suit, tie.
Fitted. Yes, fitted. But the problem is my fucking
shirt was at the cleaners. So then I tried to
have some other white shirts that are like these
really stretchy shirts that you can wear them
if they're open. But if I'm trying to put a tie
on, they literally don't fit around my neck.
So I'm doing this and I'm killing myself. And
then I'm like, well, maybe I'll leave it open.
Dressing up like first day of school. Damn, I
appreciate it. I'm honored. I was going to mimic
you. Do you remember Michael Malice? Yes. He
actually, I did a podcast with him, and he wore
the opposite, which is a white suit and a white
tie and a black shirt. I mean, he is sort of
the epitome of the loving kind of troll. That's
the ultimate troll. He wore the exact opposite.
He got the exact same haircut as me. I don't
even know what that means exactly. Just cut your
hair short. Just cut your hair short. Yeah, that's
all it means. But it was a magical moment. That's
what trolling at its best does. It's like you
feel loved. That's funny. He's an interesting
guy. Michael Malice is a very interesting guy
because he's got some wacky beliefs that I don't
subscribe to at all. Yeah, complete anarchy.
No police. I don't think we should have police.
I'm like, what world are you living in? You weigh
three pounds and you don't even have a gun. No
police. What are you talking about? But he's
a brilliant guy. Brilliant. It's interesting.
I don't subscribe to a lot of his ideas, but
I think... He's also always has a half smile
when he's saying things. Yeah. So you kind of
never know. I don't think he means half the things
he says. Really? So I don't know. He's underneath
it all, which is why I talk to him, which is
why I consider him a friend. There's a really
kind person in there. Yes. But he says things
like, yeah, police is the enemy. It's like, wait
a minute. And you live in New York. So he plays
with ideas. It feels like he's just somebody
who's juggling with different ideas and having
fun with it, not taking anything seriously. And
that's really refreshing because in the best
light, that's a fearless way to see the world.
And also, he's working on this concept of, I
think he calls it the white pill, you know, like
red pill and blue pill. The white pill is basically,
you know, I think he's highlighting that for
red -pilled folks that... there's sometimes a
cynicism about the future of the world and the
white pill is seeing the truth of the world but
being optimistic about it and thinking like we
can actually make things better so not becoming
cynical not saying like you know uh globalists
the government is ultimately like power corrupts
absolute power corrupts absolutely it's always
going to be a bureaucracy it's always going to
be greedy people who take power and take control
So that's like the cynical, the negative view.
But the positive, the white pill view is that,
you know, we can actually build a better world.
I mean, he has ideas about how to build that
better world that I don't agree with. What is
his ideas? I'm not sure I've quite understood
them, but because ultimately he's a counter puncher,
which is, you know, government, all government
is bad. So that's the idea of anarchism is that.
You're supposed to, in this emergent way, form
groups and agree together how those groups should
operate. Isn't that like a local government?
It's a local government. So his biggest problem
is that we're born in this geographical space
and are assigned to a particular government without
having chosen it. So he wants to do exactly what
we're doing now. but choose our government. Well,
isn't that what happens when you move to a different
state? I think so. Different state, that's the
whole idea. That's one of the reasons why I'm
here. Yeah. You're an anarchist. I guess I am.
If you consider California the status quo, I'm
an anarchist. That's right. This is the headline
now. Joe Rogan says he's an anarchist. Current
California. I mean, if rebelling against that
form of government, draconian measures they put
in with the lockdowns and then allowing people
to camp everywhere. Yeah, but he also says, I
think, that we're in a state of anarchy between
different nations because you can choose to immigrate
to a different nation. And then they operate.
There's no, I think there's the UN and so on.
There's agreements between nations, but they
operate as independent entities. I don't know.
And his idea is like remove as much as possible.
It's like libertarian plus plus. Like remove
as much control from the government as possible.
That's great until somebody robs you. Yeah, I
think so too. So this is the capitalist view,
I think. I don't know. I don't want to misuse
terms. The step back from the anarchist view
is, you know, we should get government out of
most things, but the violence thing, we should
let government protect us from. So the military,
the police, you know, and things like firefighters
and all those kinds of things. I mean, that forms
the fabric of society that can be stable and
operate well. We could do all of the amazing
things in terms of building new businesses, doing
science, doing all the kinds of entrepreneurship,
just everything that makes this capitalist United
States of America possible, like all the freedoms
we enjoy. It, at least to me, feels like the
violence thing has to be removed off the table.
Yeah. Yeah, that's the biggest problem. Because
when you have violence, you don't get anything
done. Like, societies didn't really form in the
sense that we have now, I would imagine, until
they developed agriculture in cities, right?
Where they figured out a way to put walls up
and fortify them and keep the barbarians out
and go, okay. I'm thinking about a thing. It's
called a wheel. They start putting ideas together.
Just relax, write stuff, write ideas down on
paper. Yeah. And we're talking about physical
violence. Yes. Like literally barbarians. Not
like calling you the wrong pronoun. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. So, I mean, he, but I feel like, and Tim
Dillon does this really well as well, is there's
like a humor to it. where you're almost taking
down the powerful by not taking them seriously.
He's one of the best alive at it. Tim Dillon
is one of the best I've ever seen. One of the
best I've ever seen at making fun of things while
pretending to be serious. Yeah. His YouTube is
hilarious. He's amazing. I love that guy to death.
And he has a free pass because he's gay. So he
gets away with so much more. And he doesn't seem
gay. My wife doesn't even believe it. She's like,
I don't even believe he's gay. She's laughing
about it. She's joking. But he's just a one of
a kind. Yeah. He really is one of a kind. Kamala
has already arrested me. Not mad, though. Just
enjoying the moment. His Twitter's a fucking,
it's a work of art. I mean, it really is. His
Twitter feed's amazing. What did you say that
Burt made a video of the homeless? It was on
his Instagram. I'll see if I can pull it up.
Burt Crusher? He was driving up Highland Avenue
in Hollywood and was just saying, like, he wasn't
showing the whole video during it, but he was,
like, at a stoplight. And, like, there was tents
the whole way up here. And he was showing, like,
this is also a really nice tent. People want
me to talk to Bert Krush because of this Russian
story. Oh, hi, Bert. Look at Bert. The machine.
Oh, it's in his Instagram story. That motherfucker,
his stories will go on for years. He does them
every 15 seconds. It might even be deleted now.
It's crazy. Productivity -wise, he's basically
the Elon Musk of Instagram stories. Maybe he
took it off because it's not showing up. Or it
could be one of these. Is it? Well, there it
is. There's tents all the way up on Highland.
People living on the side of the street. This
is fucking insane. This is literally hundreds
of tents everywhere. By the way, that's a nice
fucking tent. Also, those are two very nice tents.
I wonder if the city's giving them out because
we don't have a tent that nice. I mean, I'm not
even joking. Our tent isn't even that nice. Wow.
That's a tiny image he showed. You know, you
didn't get to see the real homeless situation.
But Bridget Phetasy sent me a video when she
was driving by Venice. And it's a minute and
a half long of just straight tense as she's driving
down the road. Just nothing but tense. Yep. How
do you put that genie back in the bottle, Lex?
Well, this is – oh, you mean it's a slippery
slope. Listen, I've been thinking about – You
know, a bunch of tech folks are moving to Austin,
right, in terms of starting businesses. So that's
one of the questions they're asking, like, where
is this headed? You're talking about the homeless
problem. Well, the governor just today came out
and said that if the city does not reimpose a
ban on camping, that the state is going to step
in. Well, yeah. Because people are, there's safety
concerns. People are openly defecating on the
streets. There's, you know, it's not nearly as
bad here as it is in California, but it's way
worse here than I've ever seen it before. But,
you know, homelessness is, it feels like that's
a symptom, not the problem, right? I mean, is
that... It's hard to say because homelessness
was horrific in San Francisco before the pandemic.
Right. And the concern is that when you are too
lenient on the homeless folks and just allow
them to camp wherever they want, shit wherever
they want, they just do it. And if you don't
put up rules, if you try to be progressive and
open -minded, it's like they have new words for
them, like the unhoused and shit like that. when
you do that you open up the door for more of
them to migrate there because there's like there
was a video that somebody put up of them interviewing
these homeless guys and like why do you like
san francisco and they said first of all they
give us food they give us money they they let
us you know they're really loose they let us
camp wherever we want and these guys had moved
to san francisco to be homeless which is a problem
but see just like you said That problem is tied
up with the fact that a lot of people are struggling
financially because of COVID. It feels like trying
to solve the homelessness problem is in direct
tension with trying to take care of people who
are struggling. It shows that there's a problem
with people losing a place to live and that the
solution is not necessarily let them camp out
anywhere they want. I think there should be some
sort of a step that the government takes, whether
it's to develop housing or to build something
for them. When you let them just camp and shit
everywhere, then you ruin all the other spaces.
The best way to keep the city intact and to try
to help these people is to implement some sort
of a program where you provide housing for them.
Letting them just camp on the street, that's
chaos. Now you've fucked up everything. So this
particular... State government just seems incompetent
at solving this particular problem, but it also
seems to be not very good at solving some other
problems, right, in terms of encouraging businesses
to stay there. You mean California? California,
sorry. Well, it's overregulated. It's a crazy
regulated state. And it's also very high taxes.
And there's a lot of people that are recognizing
that there's other places that don't have any
state taxes. Like, why would I stay in a place
that's – they're telling you you can't work.
They're closing down businesses. Gavin Newsom
today, there's a lawsuit that got filed by more
than 50 San Francisco Bay Area restaurants and
bars trying to say, like, why are we closed?
Like, this doesn't make any sense. You can't
just keep doing this forever. And some places
are starting to wake up. My hope is that a lot
of this is political, as gross as that sounds,
and that now that Biden and Harris are in, that
they'll open things back up. And the mayor of
Chicago said this. The mayor of New York has
said we have to open things back up. And I'm
hoping that they take this chance. It could go
the other way as well, though, right? The other
way is now that there is... a Democrat in office
that they could see that as a pass to pass further
regulations and push this, close the economy,
go into lockdown further. Why would they do that,
though? Listen, I always thought it was a terrible
idea. The long -term consequences on the economy
are going to be potentially orders of magnitude
worse on the fabric of our society. So I don't
know why they would do that. So the Michael Malice,
so the devil on my shoulder. Okay, Michael's
the devil. Wearing a white suit. Or the devil
wears a suit and tie, right? Yeah. That's a badass.
I've been listening to that. How good is that
guy? That guy's amazing. Colter Wall. And your
story, sorry on a small tangent, your story that
he hasn't been on your podcast because... He's
working on a ranch. Like, as a fucking rancher.
This guy's legit. Like, we reached out to them.
He's like, well, he's working on the ranch right
now. Like, what is he doing on that ranch? He's
a fucking cowboy. Like, a legit cowboy. Like,
there's literally no more badass thing to do
than turn down Joe Rogan Experience appearance.
Massive promotion. He's like, eh, I'd rather
just rope steers. Yeah. But the Michael Malice
devil argument is that... You know, that's one
way for the government to gain more control or
the populace is to fear mongers say that there's
a big problem and that magnify the sort of the
narrative around how big that problem is. And
unfortunately, from my perspective, as a scientist,
to use scientists to say, look, scientists are
saying there's a huge problem, sort of use science.
as a tool of fear mongering and then gain further
and further control of the populace that's the
devil on the on the shoulder you have to have
an incentive to do that like why would they want
that kind of control while also devastating the
economy they need the economy because they need
tax revenue if they're not getting tax revenue
how are they going to feed the military industrial
complex how are they going to feed all their
businesses how are they going to feed the pharmaceutical
industry like what all these people that finance
their campaigns and all these banks that that
pay for them to speak after they get out of office,
where's the money coming from now if there's
no economy? I don't think that... I think that's
like one of them doom and gloom QAnon type deals
where people are thinking like, they want to
kill half the population and, you know. Yeah,
no, I agree with you. Everything you said, incentive
-wise, it makes sense. I was really confused
why we haven't done, for example, mass scale
testing of everybody, which seemed like... You
know, the antigen tests, which can be under a
dollar to manufacture, manufacture hundreds of
millions of them, at -home testing of everybody.
Is it under a dollar? To manufacture, yeah. Really?
Now, yeah. So you can start April or May of last
year, start mass manufacture. There's no reason
we can't do that. And then everybody starts getting
tested. At the individual level, you know, the
accuracy is not. perfect but at the societal
level that's one way if you get a negative test
your debt sorry if you get a positive test you
definitely have covet and so based on that trusting
the individuals not tracking them but trusting
the individuals when they get a positive test
that they will stay home and through that process
we would have been able to open up the economy
in the summer like that uh Michael Mina, I think,
from Harvard, people should go follow him on
Twitter or wherever. He's been screaming about
this. Like, why the hell is FDA getting in the
way of this? So the FDA doesn't like crappy at
-home tests. They want, like, expensive nice
tests. But the problem with expensive nice tests,
it's hard to manufacture them at that scale.
So there's, you know, people should go read his
stuff. He's an actual expert of this. Do the
crappy at -home tests have a lot of false positives?
False... No, they have false negatives. So meaning
if you get a positive, for sure you have it.
Is that true? Because we've had guys that got
false positives with the rapid antigen test.
The rapid antigen test? Yeah. Okay, everything
coming out of my mouth now is kind of crappily...
You might be correct. You need whiskey. This
is what you need. Some Whitmire's Texas Single
Barrel. Come on, son. All right, Joe. Do you
want to drink some whiskey? Just to clear the
mind. Like that sound? That's the sound of bad
decision -making about to come up. Ice or no
ice? No ice, please. Like a man. I love it. Fucking
Russians. Savage people. Well, definitely not
vodka, though, because I can drink whiskey in
moderation. Can't drink vodka in moderation?
You just start going hard? What is it? We got
some of that. No, no, no. Cheers, sir. Cheers.
Good to see you, man. Good to see you. How long
are you down for? Anywhere from one week to five
years. You're so free. I love how you live, man.
It's beautiful. Because of your podcast, you
can really do whatever you want, whenever you
want to do it. It's kind of amazing. It's the
Texas way. It is. The Russian slash Texas way.
But I like Boston, too. I'm afraid of Silicon
Valley now. Everybody inside Silicon Valley,
all my friends that work there, All the great
entrepreneurs, all the people that work at big
companies, Google and so on, say do not move
here. You know, here's childlike, naive me, like,
texting, oh, what are the cool places to live?
It's like all cabs do not move. Wyoming. Get
out now. I don't understand. They don't actually
provide good reasons. Like, the tax thing isn't
the reason they provide. Well, it's crime. Elon
told me 12 of his friends have been robbed. 12
of his friends have been assaulted and robbed
there. Yeah. He's like, it's dangerous. So culturally,
the whole kind of defund the police culture is
affecting the stability of the society. There's
that, but there's also just rampant homelessness
and people with mental health problems and drug
addicts. And they need to fuel their problem.
You know, there was a show where they parked
cars in San Francisco to see how long it took
before the car got broken into. And then they
put, you know, surveillance camera to watch it.
And it was crazy. You parked the car, and then
five minutes later, people are looking around.
They would sit in front of it, look around, look
around, just pull out a hammer out of a bag,
smash and grab. You just leave a bag in there
so it looks like there might be something in
the bag. It was crazy. They watched over and
over and over again. People do this in a place
where it's literally the highest real estate
in the state and one of the most wealthy places
on earth. San Francisco is incredibly wealthy.
And you have... homelessness everywhere crime
everywhere there's an app that you can get where
you can track the human defecation throughout
the city yeah like why would you live there well
the question is if you want to build so in the
tech space if you want to build a company to
do something cool i don't care if with that little
app or change the world It's some large -scale
thing. Where do you go? Right here, baby. Austin,
Texas. Come on, son. But for the longest time,
it's been Silicon Valley, right? I'm trying to
talk everybody cool and moving here. Fahim Anwar
is moving here. One of the best comics in LA.
Awesome. So, yeah, Elon has moved here. So he's
kind of the reason that's making me think, like,
it's very possible that this becomes... in the
good sense, where the crazy, the wild entrepreneurs
move. So the tech, the cool Silicon Valley moves.
It's very possible. Like you. Like you, Lex.
It's calling you. Yeah, yeah. I heard you ate
at Terry Black's. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Terry Black's.
Stopped you in your tracks, didn't it? Exactly
like you said. First of all, it was amazing.
And then, of course, there's people who are like,
oh, no. Yes, Terry Black's is amazing, but you
should try this other place, so on and so forth.
There's all kinds of great barbecue here. They're
right. Franklin's is awesome. Look at that. Woo!
People are like, that's too dry. Okay, I get
it. No, no, no, no. It is not too dry. That's
a photograph, you fucks. Not only that, it's
with an Android phone. How do you know it's an
Android? Because you're an Android guy. Yes.
You've committed to that platform. It's very
admirable. You don't give a fuck about that green
text bubble. Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, try at Signal.
Oh, Signal's amazing. You and I had an extensive
conversation at Signal, like one message back
and forth. Well, we can keep going, but it seemed
to be like we just text each other. I don't mind
green. It's one of my favorite colors. I don't
mind the green bubble. But I think it's a funny
thing with people. I'm more invested in the Apple
ecosystem, and I use AirDrop a lot amongst friends.
And I know Samsung has an equivalent to AirDrop
now that's supposed to be... Pretty functional.
Samsung Galaxy S21, the greatest phone coming
out soon. Ultra. Ultra is the big one? That's
the good one. Yeah. Yeah, phantom black. Looks
good on you. I feel like I was sponsored to say
this, but I hope I was. I hope I get a free phone
out of this. MKBHD had a great review of the
Ultra. He makes it very exciting. Yeah, he makes
everything exciting. He's great. Everything just
looks super sharp and crisp and sexy. Just everything.
I just want to buy all of whatever he's got.
He's so smooth. Yeah. He's so smooth. He's so
nonchalant. He's so just relaxed. He's an Android
guy. You know, there's a lot of those tech guys
that review things or Android guys because you're
constantly taking your SIM card out of one phone
and putting it in another. I got an iPhone 12
and I tried to get it registered at Verizon.
It took an hour and a half. It didn't work. I
bought it online at the Apple store. I got it
delivered. Took an hour and a half to get it.
They go, like, we can't figure out how to do
this. We might have to change your plan. I'm
like, Jesus fucking Christ. Finally, they got
it. They got it up and running. I'm like, oh,
it's great. It's different. It's more square.
Same fucking phone. It's not much different,
right? For what I do, I mean, I'm not playing
games. I'm just making phone calls and taking
pictures. The camera on the 11 was awesome. The
camera on the 12 is awesome. The next morning,
on my way to the fucking airport, and it just
stops working. Just completely stopped working.
Wouldn't make phone calls. I couldn't call Verizon
on it. Couldn't do anything. It said, please
contact Verizon. And I'm like, oh, you sons of
bitches. So then I had to call them, and I just
reactivated my 11. I have this fucking brick
of a 12 just sitting in my dresser. It's like
buying the treadmill that you never use. Jamie
and I were just talking about the Ableton Live
Push. Sorry, what was it? Yeah, that's a little
deep. It's a musical instrument tool. So actually,
Grimes uses that to compose for music. What is
it? It's a thing that... So there's a recording
software called Ableton Live, and there's a push
device where you can tap it to do a beat. And
you can mix stuff. You can loop things. And there's
people online you can watch, and they create
incredible... Is it right there? Yeah. Oh, that
looks dope. That looks like a giant Simon Says
machine. Doesn't it look like something you want
to learn and use to create cool stuff? So I got
it like two years ago. Let me hear some of this.
What you make out of it is what you decide. Play
melodies and chords in any key. Oh, this is like
a commercial. This is like the ad for it, yeah.
It does look pretty dope. Well, but the point
is it's a symbol of all my failures in life because
I've gotten, it's been sitting in a box just
looking at me, just like that brick of a phone,
just saying this is why you're a failure because
you can't take three or four hours to read a
fucking manual or tutorial or learn how to actually
use this. Maybe a YouTube video would get you.
Well, no, it gets, I was talking to Jamie, it
gets you in a way, it's both. exciting inspiring
and depressing because they're so good and they
make it look so easy like look you can just tap
a beat and you can start but when you actually
like start to learn how to use it like able to
live the software you realize there's all these
buttons and you yeah there's there's all these
things you have to learn like how do i even record
just the basic just even our conversation how
do i record that and and then you have to realize
there's like shortcuts you have to learn you
basically have to sit down embrace the suck,
embrace the learning curve of saying, okay, on
Monday, I'm going to read this tutorial and I'm
going to get it done and learn something new.
And doing that alone is really difficult when
nobody's really pushing you. I don't know. That's
probably a metaphor for a lot of things we fail
to do in life is like always putting it off and
putting it off and putting it off. It's something
that actually will probably bring, like me in
this case, a lot of joy. I'm sure you're accurate.
Right. But you have to be a little bit less harsh
on yourself because you're very productive. The
problem with you is you do so many things. Between
jiu -jitsu and working out and having fucking
phone calls with David Goggins where he talks
you into things. Okay. Can I just talk about
that for a second? Okay. Okay. So this is why
you've told me before not to read comments, but
I do write comments on Instagram. And he put
a story out, I think, yesterday saying that he's
doing the 48 -mile challenge again, 4x4x48, where
you run four miles every four hours. And like
a fucking idiot, I commented. I thought, like,
nobody would know. I could just, like, I said,
I'm in. I wrote I'm in, and I thought I would
get positive, and then people would be like,
oh, cool, talk to me about it, and I could do
it peacefully at home. So it's March 5th, I think,
is when he's doing it, which is nice. He announced
it down the line a little bit. He calls me within
seconds of me posting that. He's like, Lex, good
to hear from you. Yeah, what's up, brother? Stay
hard. I'm in. There you are. Oh, my God. Yeah.
Then he calls, and he's like. Let me hear his
video. Let me hear what he says. Start it from
the beginning. All right. That time of year again,
the second annual 4x4x48. For some of you who
don't know what that is, basically you run four
miles every four hours for 48 hours. Some of
you out here don't like running, can't run, you
have bad knees, bad hips, bad ankles. Walk. Do
whatever you can do, you know, in that period
of time when you're supposed to be working out.
So that being said, a lot of you out here did
it last year. It was a huge success. Make sure
that you have, you know, like logistics set up.
There's going to be times at night when you're
running at 4 o 'clock, you know, in the morning,
midnight, different times, you know. The fucking
boogeyman comes out at nighttime. So make sure
that you have, you know, safety parameters in
place. Run with somebody. Do whatever the fuck
you have to do to keep yourself safe. Just like
last year. All right. That said, this year I
want to give away some items. And I've been talking
about a lot more. But I have some, you know,
new shorts in stock. So this year I'm doing tons
of giveaways for those of you who go above and
beyond. And what that means is some people last
year raised thousands of dollars. This is all
for charity. Tons of people got tons of people
involved in the 4x4x48. Several things they did.
Outside the box thinking to raise awareness for
their causes, their charities. Raise awareness
for fitness. Whatever it was, it was great to
see that. Last year I had nothing to give away.
I just saw these amazing stories. I was being
tagged in amazing stories. Didn't have anything
to give away. This year, that's a different fucking
story. I have a lot of things to give away. This
is like the nice version of Deogaga. It's the
thoughtful version. This one here is one of them.
I think it's taking souls down the back. I also
have this shirt right here I'll be giving away.
This is a new Stay Hard shirt. Okay. So the thing
is, he's like, why don't you come down and we'll
do it together? So him and I are going to do
it together. You're going to do it in Vegas?
Yeah. Oh, Jesus Christ. So you're going to stay
for two days with him in Vegas? Yeah, with him.
But this is not like... I feel like that's not...
It sounds like fun, but that's not a good idea.
That's not a good idea. Trust me on it. Because
you're not sleeping. So it's 48 hours of no sleep
with David Goggins alone. Plus, he says we're
going to do a bunch of other crazy shit. Like
extra shit. And then he suggested that... the
kind of shit that would break me. I was like,
all right. Have you ever thought about joining
the Navy SEALs? No. I do not want to join the
Navy SEALs. I'm talking into it. Are you going
to carry the boat? Who's going to carry the boat?
I want to be in the boat. I don't want to carry
the boat. But that said, listen, it's all fun.
It's pretty easy. 48 miles is rough. That's why
you can't learn that machine. What do you mean?
that electronic music machine. That's why you
don't have any fucking time. But that, that,
those are the demons you have to face that I'll
be thinking about that electronic machine the
whole time I'm running with them. No, but you
know, it's a good test. It's a good test of like
going to the limit. It's the thing he talks about,
right? Whatever, whatever that percent is, 10%,
40%, the, that, you know, just take your mind
to the limit and push further. And he's a good
person to deal with. How are your knees? Good.
So I've never had trouble. You know, knock on
wood, never had troubles. Really? All your jujitsu?
No knee trouble? I've never been injured in jujitsu.
That's amazing. Like really hard training. I
think it was because of the wrestling background.
I've always approached everything in training.
with the following thought like how can i train
really hard like twice a day how can i put in
a three hour four hour sessions of training with
killers without getting injured so don't you
know make sure there's a strong frames like just
working on all the stabilizers making sure to
not want to the ego it's like silence in the
ego just you know if somebody is being rough
in a way or somebody's much better than me in
a way that puts me in compromising positions
not in terms of being submitted but in terms
of just like putting pressure on some body parts
that's going to break me like i can tell like
it'll lead to injuries i'll like i'll not have
my ego and try to beat them i'll i'll flow with
it more and just making sure i put in the miles
versus like uh the wins the individual wins along
the way and so maximizing that allowed me to
uh just be lucky honestly because you can be
just unlucky yeah i did one of my worst injuries
was unlucky one of my acl snaps just was uh working
out with a guy who's like really cool easy to
work out with training uh we were i was uh passing
his guard i was in half guard and uh my leg was
sideways And he did a lockdown sideways. So,
you know, lockdown normally extends you out this
way, but it went that way. Right. So it was like
he like locked me out that way. Yeah. And it
just popped because I was trying. It was really
wasn't a wise position to be in. Right. Especially
with the gi. Because there's no friction. There's
too much friction, rather. I couldn't turn my
knee over and slip out of it. I really should
have gotten myself in a better position and just
used my shin and instep and tried to push my
way out or tried some other methods to get out
of the half guard. But I tried to sit sideways
and I was going to just try to... And he extended
his leg and I just... It was like a carrot. It
didn't even hurt. It was crazy. I was like, ah!
And then he goes, you okay? I'm like, I think
so. Hold on a second. And then I moved around
a little. I'm like, it doesn't even hurt. But
it just... pop the ligament off yeah i think
the lockdown is a really perfect position like
there's very few people in this world that can
put me in lockdown because i'm so afraid of that
position because of the injury so like i'm very
cautious and if they do i'm not this isn't like
a challenge sorry for me sounds like that obviously
there's a million people way better than me and
they put they can put me in lockdown but i'm
very careful to avoid that position because i
know how compromising it can put the the knee
in the knee yeah the And funny enough, as you
know, like usually the better the person, the
more you can trust them to do the lockdown in
a way that, so like certainly the more, you know,
you judge people. I try not to judge people in
regular life, but in jiu -jitsu, I'll judge them
harshly in a sense. I'll pick people who are
not. don't move in sudden ways that are just
unexpected. So the kind of people I love training
hard with are the people who are exceptionally
good, but they move in ways that are like...
They flow. They flow, but are not like the Ben
Askrens of the world that are funky, that are
creative. Names are slipping my mind of all the
different jiu -jitsu people who are super creative.
They kind of surprise you with their creativity.
I like, like, Haja Gracie style. You'd hate rolling
with Eddie Bravo, then. It puts you in some weird
spots. Right, but I wouldn't have an ego. There's,
like, hard training where you're trying to win
and trying to improve, and there's training where
you're, like, learning from each other. Right.
With him, I mean, he's already, like... probably
several words of magnitude better than me, so
there's no reason for me to try to beat him.
But lockdown is a good example of a position
that kind of scares me in terms of just the pressure
it puts on the knees. Yeah, he's got a very unusual
game, too. His students have a very unusual game,
like Richie Martinez, Boogeyman, has this crazy
guard game. And if you're not accustomed to someone
who's got that level of flexibility, I've talked
about Richie before, too, because he comes from
a weird background. He's a breakdancer. And because
of that breakdancing, he has incredible body
control. You know, breakdancers, people that
think of breakdancers, they don't necessarily
equate it with, like, these incredibly athletic
people. But, my God, the breakdancers of today.
Follow Stance Elements on Instagram. Break Dancer?
Yeah. No, it's a page that's dedicated to break
dancing. It is wild. We played one the other
night with Jordan Burroughs because Jordan Burroughs
is kind of making fun of break dancing. I'm like,
dude, watch this. And there's this guy. I forget
his name. I forget the guy's name. The craziest
guy, his name is. Yeah, that's guy. That's B
-Boy Tata. As a Russian, I approve of the tracksuit.
You got to see this guy. Breakdance, though.
Like, the shit that he does. If you can go to
stance element, well, let's see what he does
here. Look at this. What the fuck? He's on one
hand, bouncing around like he weighs two pounds.
And he's a big guy. He's a big athletic guy.
And he's doing freakish shit, man. Timing, balance,
the general body awareness. It's incredible.
All of it, but the strength. His feet don't even
touch the ground. Imagine how good that guy would
be good at jiu -jitsu or mixed martial arts.
Oh, without a doubt. But he's also, like, incredibly
powerful. Like, the Stance Elements video, go
to the Stance Elements page. Because there's
a video of him in, oh, let's look at us. That's
hilarious. If you see the Stance Elements page,
though, scroll down to the video of him with,
I think he's got, I think he's got a red tracksuit
on there, too. No. They post a lot of stuff.
There it is right there. Watch this. Just watch
this. Look at that. What in the hell? I mean,
dude. And there's a lot of creativity in that,
too. Gymnasts have athleticism that's also incredible
for martial arts, but this has just creativity.
And he's doing it to music, and he's dancing
to music. I mean, it's phenomenal. There's another
guy called B -Boy Pocket Kim. Have you ever seen
that guy? He doesn't even seem real. Like, literally
doesn't seem real. The guy's abilities, that's
him in the upper right -hand corner, Jamie. Click
on that. Watch this dude, because this literally
does not seem real. Look at that. What the fuck,
man? What the hell? He's amazing. What's that
called? Oh, look at this. It's me talking about
him. I say he's the freak of all freaks. That's
hilarious. But he really is. I mean, he's incredible.
And that other guy, B -Boy Tata, is amazing.
That's you. Funny. That's so funny. What's that
style called where you're doing like a robot
style, like pop lock type situation where you're...
It's not breakdancing. It's like... I think it's
called pop locking. No? No, like where you're...
deforming your body in different ways. It's kind
of like a robot dance, but on steroids. Do you
know what I'm talking about? You're making your
body flow in all different kinds of... I don't
want to say it's hyphy, but I think it's called
hyphy. And Stylebender does... Hyphy? Yeah, it's
H -Y -P -H -Y. Hyphy. Let's see if I... But I
think breakdancing is a better overall body awareness
muscle activity for fighting. Definitely. Well,
a guy like that, a guy like whether it's Kim,
B -Boy Pocket Kim, or whether it's B -Boy Tata,
those guys, those guys can do anything. You'd
have to just show them the moves. Whether it's
kickboxing or jiu -jitsu, their body control
is just incredible. The flexibility is incredible.
The explosiveness and the control. When that
guy is jumping up and down on one hand, you have
to be incredibly strong. They're a style bender.
Yeah, that kind of stuff. Is this it? Yep. This
is just overall body awareness and dance skills.
Look at that. Look at him getting after it. He's
going to fight Jan Blachowicz for the light heavyweight
title. That is a very interesting fight. What
do you, by the way, think about the Conor fight
this weekend? I'm very excited. Unfortunately,
I think I'll be getting off stage right around
the time it starts. Yeah. Because we're doing
these shows. Dave Chappelle versus Conor McGregor.
Well, the problem is we picked a bunch of dates.
And Dave does some dates with music. And he's
like, which dates do you want to do? So I picked
these dates. And I didn't even recognize that
I picked the 23rd, which is the day of the fight.
It's all right. Who do you got? I do not know.
I do not know. Always. I do not know. I think
that Dustin has gotten far better. and Dustin
is much more durable at 155 pounds. But that
said, Michael Johnson KO'd him at 155 pounds.
Michael Johnson hits very hard, and he caught
him with a perfect shot that could legitimately
knock out most 155 -pounders. But he KO'd Justin
Gaethje. He beat Max Holloway, which, especially
when you look at Max Holloway's performance this
weekend. That was a crazy, incredible performance
last weekend. Maybe the best performance I've
ever seen. Against a guy who, in Calvin Caner,
is just a straight -up assassin. Yeah, those
numbers were crazy. I saw that you put up the
numbers. When I watched that fight, it didn't
feel like that dominating of a performance, as
the numbers indicate. It was dominating, but
what is it, like a record for the most? Most
strikes landed ever. Here's the crazy thing.
Most strikes thrown and most strikes landed.
But here's the crazy thing. Most of the time
when you see a lot of strikes landed, it's a
ground fight. Someone's on top of the guy and
beating him up and holding him down for five
rounds. But with Max, it's all stand -up. He's
insane. We think that Conor said that he'll knock
out Poirier in the first 60 seconds. Well, he's
probably putting that in Poirier's head. You've
got to always think Conor's playing mind games.
He's being really nice. I don't know if you saw.
He's being really respectful. He's donated some
money to Poirier as a charity. I'm not sure what
it is. love back and forth i know it's weird
it's my baby connor friendly connor is a different
connor i gotta put it's the russian in me i love
khabib i would i know he's a fascinating human
being A fascinating human being. I hope he comes
back and fights for Conor. But what if Dustin
wins? Is he compelled to fight Dustin again?
Because that was a close fight. That was a good
fight, yeah. Yeah, listen, there was a moment
in that fight where Dustin caught him in a guillotine
where I was like, whoa, that is tight. Dustin
has a very good guillotine, but Khabib got out
of it. That's the problem with people who aren't
defeated. It's like, where's the ceiling? Because
maybe Khabib wasn't going. Or maybe that's how
he stays undefeated. He gets that close to defeat
because he's fighting world -class fighters,
but his will and his ability is just enough to
pop that head out and keep smashing you and eventually
tap you. Yeah, but you've got to admire the man
who's... So Khabib is talking about what, like...
agriculture like farming mass i don't know if
you were paying attention to this is he's he's
talking like a businessman but a businessman
not like talking about like tequila or uh like
new clothing line or maybe doing a podcast or
something like that i don't know he's he's talking
about actually building farms and like honoring
the culture of his people in the kind of way
the businesses that they build honoring the the
the dreams that his father had and his mom has
so i mean that's pretty badass that's pretty
bad but he's an amazing person good uh amazing
in many ways but also complicated which is really
interesting i i'd love to see how that like uh
wine or vodka whatever i know he doesn't drink
uh ages i wonder because he's been so so so focused
on fighting You have the Bovasi Esetiev. I've
talked about him before. He's from that culture.
They became more and more philosophical and poetic
and so on. I think Khabib will be a good guest
on this podcast in like 20 years. Well, his English
is much better now. Yeah, it's really good. I
would have him on any time he wants. We first
talked about it a long time ago, but he was struggling
with his English. But his English is excellent
now. He can talk. Really good. I'm going to smash
your boy. His English is so developed around
talking a little bit of trash in MMA. I don't
know how good his English is developed in terms
of being philosophical for three hours in a podcast
or thoughtful about life. Oh, I think he'd be
fine. I think he'd be fine. I've seen him speak
in interviews. I think he's fine. Could be if
you need a translator. My Russian is pretty good.
We got yourself a Russian right here. I mean,
dude, I had Yoel Romero on with Joey Diaz. With
Joey Diaz. That worked out. That was incredible
because his English is pretty good still. Not
bad. He can still talk. And Joey adding the stories,
that's a fascinating coupling. That's one of
my favorite conversations, the going back and
forth. Very interesting. It's music. Yeah, well,
you know, they know so much about that Cuban
culture, too. They know so much about each other.
Yeah, I think about the translation. He did it
masterfully. He really did, yeah. No, Joey speaks
fluent. Right. Oh, both languages. Yeah. Yeah,
I think about that with obviously Russian. So
I have the unique possibility to speak somewhat
English and Russian pretty well. It's like, who
can I be a Joey Diaz for? Khabib? Well, Khabib
is already pretty good. Oh, yeah. I mean, here,
let me do the pitch. Hi, Khabib. If you ever
want to come on the Joe Rogan experience and
need a translator. No. I'd love to do it. I'd
love to just sit silently and translate. I don't
think he needs a translator, though. He doesn't.
That's the problem. Stop learning English. Hello,
you. Yeah, exactly. Yoel, his English is much
more. It's much more limited. Yeah. But it also
has an art to it as well. Oh, yeah. Just the
simplicity of it. You know, just like Joey Diaz,
who, like, mispronounces half the things he says.
He does it on purpose, though. He does it, okay.
Kind of, sort of. He does it, hopefully. He calls
Khabib, Kala -Beeb. Yeah. Yeah. But the result,
like, with Yoel is, like, it's almost a caricature
of the... Like the superhero fighter, right?
Yeah. He's built like, he probably has one of
the most intimidating builds in mixed martial
arts. You think so? Well, who else? Yoel. Yoel's
got the most intimidating build, for sure. Ever.
Well, then there's the heavyweights, right? Francis
Ngannou. Francis Ngannou, right. He's just all
around terrifying. Yeah. Yeah. But Yoel doesn't
even look like a real person when you meet him.
He just doesn't look real. He's so big, it doesn't
look real. He's apparently going to fight Light
Heavyweight in Bellator. What's Light Heavyweight?
205. 205, yeah. I think he's going to move up
to 205. He's so big. The struggle to get to 185
at his age, I believe he's 44 now, which is crazy.
He's just completely shredded at 44. Full six
-pack, no body fat. Looks like a Greek god. Doesn't
look like he's aged a day in all the years he's
been fighting. I don't think he's ever talked
about diet or anything like that, right? Whatever!
Yeah, exactly. I eat Cuba food! I mean, I don't
know what he eats, but he's got to be eating
hard work. He's got to be eating fairly clean.
Look at him. He's in a cryo chamber, laughing
and smiling. I've never seen that guy. He's like
the polar opposite of me. He's always happy.
Yeah. Yeah, he's always happy and smiling. And
I'm glad you... Another guy who's shredded is
Jordan Burroughs. I'm glad you had him on here.
Oh, he was amazing. He's a special, special human.
Well, when you're that kind of an athlete and
also a wrestler, those guys, they don't get a
lot of accolades. They don't get a lot of press.
They don't get... the attention of the media,
of the love of the crowds. It's a different world.
They do it for the love of wrestling and the
love of competing in one of the most difficult
physical pursuits known to man. Yeah, that makes
it, just like he was saying, it makes it more,
I don't know, money almost gets in the way. I
know it's a horrible thing to say. People should
get paid. I know what you're saying, though.
But when you don't get paid, which is what makes
Olympics special, I think you don't get, especially
in the early journey, you don't get paid at all
or much. It makes it special. It makes it so
pure about the sport. And wrestling represents
that amazingly well. I talked to Jordan Burrows.
He's this badass new talent. I talked to Dan
Gable. I don't know if you know who that is.
Sure, of course. They offered him up for the
podcast. I would love to have him on, but I want
to do it in person. Did you do it remotely? No,
in person. I flew down to Iowa. Oh, wow. I stayed
with him. Is that up yet? Yeah, I just uploaded.
Today? No, like a month ago. Oh, okay. I actually
re -uploaded it because I was so sad. I never
care about views or listens and so on, so it's
good that we're mentioning it. Please go there.
check out dan gable because i was so sad that
it only got not much views relative to others
and i was like this is one of the most special
humans in the world yeah his story is crazy too
about how he became that dedicated and focused
when his sister was killed when he was 15. yeah
raped and killed and it was just uh so the rest
his wrestling brought the family together and
just I mean, you couldn't write a better script
because he went undefeated until his last match
in college. And he lost his last match in college
against the person he should have beat because
he took a lot of stuff, you know. He let himself
get distracted. And, of course, a guy who's never
lost losing, that, like, that does something
to you. That he turned another, he went to another
level. And then he won the Olympic gold medal.
without letting up a single point, just domination.
And then coaching -wise, he then went to Iowa
and coached, I think he's the most winningest
coach in NCAA history, or like up there, and
just taught this whole culture of just domination,
which is tough in this new, I mean, he struggles
with this now. Obviously, he has daughters and
family, so he's softened up a little bit. There's
still a madman in there. He has a shed, and he
goes in the shed, and there's demons in there.
He works out in the shed, right? Yeah. Still,
he has videos of it. It's crazy. Even as an older
man. He doesn't. Trains very hard. I think they
build the shed so he's like, in order to maintain
my marriage, I have to separate those two worlds.
I think he's got fake hips and fake knees now.
Fake everything. Yeah. Shoulders as well? I don't
know about the shoulders, but I love his... What
was that? Here he goes. This is his shed gym.
There he is. Yeah, I mean, he's all busted up,
and he still trains very hard. But he's got hip
replacements. I think he's got knee replacements
as well. Did you ask him about those? No, not
about those. I was so focused on kind of his
mindset. He's basically David Goggins before
David Goggins, which is just this mindset. I
remember he said that, I've always wanted to
train so hard that they would have to carry me
off, you know, like be near death. They would
have to carry me off the mat. And he's never
succeeded. And he was proud of his daughter because
she's a swimmer. And she passed out during a
swim meet in the pool. And he was proud of her
that she succeeded where her father failed. Jesus
Christ. So that drive, I mean, what can you say
about that? The thing is, I don't know how often
you're in the Midwest, in like that kind of Midwest.
So I also saw Tom Brands, who is the current
Iowa coach. I spent a day with him. I spent a
day with Dan Gable. I wanted to stay there forever.
The family feeling. Yeah. Just the love. Like,
it's a very, you know, we're talking about California
with the homeless and all. You forget how, like,
good humans can be to each other. Like, everybody
in, like, New York or even Boston or California,
they're busy. They got a thing going on. They
go to the next thing and so on. Here, they're
just set back. They don't know who the hell I
am. So this was recorded two years ago. I was,
like, sitting on it. I had demons around it,
okay? What kind of demons were on it? I felt
like I didn't do as good of a conversation as
I could have. I felt like I failed one of my
heroes. I don't know. I don't know. So, whatever.
What made you change your mind? A bunch of the
Iowa folks nonstop messaging me. Where the fuck
is the video? Stop being a little bitch. He was
really nice to me. There's both a love in that
family atmosphere and a love within the focus
that they've had. For so many years, this is
one of the magical things. that made me even
further believe that family can be beneficial
for success is that they're all in on this effort
that Dan had to win the Olympic gold, to just
succeed as a wrestling coach, just his whole
life. They get it. And they love him for it.
And they kind of embrace it. And there's like
this family atmosphere. Like what they did at
Tom Brands is the same. Olympic gold medalist
too, coach of Iowa. Another guy who's just insane.
We sat down on the couch and just watched these
documentaries about people being badasses, like
mountain climbing, just overcoming shit, as a
family thing, as a family all together. And they've
invited me like a nobody. And I don't know. I've
never felt that before and since, I think, because
I don't go out of the Midwest very much. And
it just felt like home. There's something to
be said for that kind of life. There's a different
way of life. My good buddy John Dudley, he lives
in Iowa. Just different kind of people out there.
No Twitter, no Instagram. Oh, he doesn't have
that? No. I mean, there might be something that
somebody does for him. But it's just small town
life. Small town life, yeah. There's good and
bad. Lack of nuance there sometimes. Well, definitely
all Trump supporters there at the time. What
do you think that is? Why do you think that is?
Because here's a narrative that I don't like.
It's the Trump supporters are all racist. I don't
like that narrative. I don't think it's true.
I think it's too simplistic. There's a lot of
people that don't like a lot of what Democrats...
are pushing, whether it is, you know, whatever
the variables are, whatever the things are that
they don't like about the Democrats. It doesn't
mean they're racist. This thing keeps coming
up over and over again, like you can just say
it. You can just say it. And that Trump equals
you're supporting racism, you support Biden,
it means you're the future, you're progressive.
And it's a weird narrative that is very polarizing
to all the people that voted for Trump that aren't
racist. They don't like a lot of the things that
Joe Biden stands for in terms of his politics
and the way he was with the Obama administration,
the way the Democrats have been throughout the
election. They're allowed to have their opinions,
and I think we run a real... dangerous risk in
this country of uh separating people like good
versus evil and uh not just respecting people's
differences and differences of opinions and it's
a different kind of discrimination yeah you know
it's an intellectual discrimination it's a cultural
discrimination it's it's a weird way of chastising
people that don't share your ideas and in terms
of white supremacists or racists We focus on
both the left and the right, on the extremes,
on the ridiculous examples, the tiny 0 .001 %
of the people, like with the violence in the
Capitol. You somehow equate that some of the
people that stormed the Capitol are somehow equivalent
to the 70 million or whatever that voted for
Trump. Right. That kind of equivalent. And the
same is done on the other side. It's sort of
the 80 or whatever million that voted for Biden
are all social justice warriors, and they hate
America, right? They hate the flag. They hate
the flag. I mean, one of the things that does
bother me about sort of the, I don't know, is
the left or something, is not loving this country
unapologetically. I mean, criticizing, but just
loving the incredible. experiment that this is
and i think uh what i felt in terms of dan gable
and so on the the nature of their support for
trump was uh they were not like rah rah trump
it's just they're more like rah rah america rah
rah america the flags everywhere yeah and it's
not it wasn't also like naive or delusional support
for america like everything america does is right
it's more like this is an incredible country
and i'm proud to be here and not this is not
beyond criticizing and so on being against wars
and so on but just being able to say i love america
every time i say i love america i get i get private
emails is like that uh private emails and messages
so public messages of support from trump people
i knew you'd love trump all right it's like why
does saying i love america equate to i love trump
It doesn't. It's weird. You can just love this
country and be skeptical of all leaders that
attain power. Anybody with power, I think, deserves
careful scrutiny. And Trump is certainly one
of them. Biden is certainly one of them. But
you can still love this country. That's why I
think people that immigrate to this country can
appreciate even further, to be honest, because
it can be really shitty elsewhere. Another way
to do that is just by studying history. That's
too much work. Too much work. But yeah, I mean,
coming from Russia, the difference in the freedom
here versus there is... Yeah, it's... I mean,
there's beautiful things about Russia too, like
culturally speaking, in terms of just like in
the struggle of the war. I would say it came
from the wars, the music, the art, the... The
poetry, the writing, the science that came from
the World War that impacted Russia way more than
it did the United States. The World War II. I
mean, tens of millions of people died. China,
Russia, Europe, obviously. They had to, for a
century, struggle with the biggest existential
questions of good and evil, of losing. most of
your family to unjust slaughter or starvation
in ukraine in the 1930s like i mentioned before
my grandmother survived uh something that people
don't talk about they say that hitler is evil
and so on they don't often highlight the evil
of stalin there's not enough talk about just
this the fact that he imposed uh just things
on the people without any consideration of the
suffering that that causes. So millions of people
die from starvation. Starvation, cannibalism,
people eating their children. Yeah, it's crazy.
If you read the depictions of it, I've read some
stuff that I couldn't continue. I couldn't finish
because it's so horrific. You know, you should
have Dan Carlin back on the podcast, by the way.
I would love to. And you, he's been, he's like,
I don't know. I don't know what's a good metaphor,
but he released an episode now like once every
year. And it's always like an excitement. It's
like Christmas or whatever as a Jew. I feel weird
saying that. What is he doing most of the time
now? Working on the podcast. So he releases his
one episode once a year. Well, he doesn't. So
he released, I want to say, three or four episodes
this year. So it's been a productive year. You
mean 2020, right? 2020. Sorry, I apologize. Isn't
that crazy? What we do is not. What he does.
No. It's really rude to call what we do a podcast
and call what he does a podcast. But he has two,
and I recommend people listen to it. He has two
podcasts. One is Hardcore History and one is
Common Sense. Yeah. He shut down Common Sense
for a while because he felt... Too polarized
by the political climate, right? But he released
an episode, People Should Listen. One he got
a lot of shit for that was a little bit, I think,
critical of Trump, but not between the lines,
not... not directly but he got shit for that
before the election was like steering into the
iceberg basically worried he's the opposite of
me this is a level of optimism but he was worried
about where this country's headed and he released
a new episode I think garbage in garbage out
about the you know basically making a case for
centrism you know for center left center right
in this country as opposed to extremes it's poetic
it's beautiful people should listen to it but
that it It's done with the same kind of care
that he does with the hardcore history. But he
did release one extra hardcore history. He inspired
me to... He mentioned what we do. He inspired
me to try to do a solo thing, like an episode
on Hitler, on the rise and fall of the Third
Reich. So I read... a book called The Rise and
Fall of the Third Reich. It's this huge volume.
I recommend people read it. It tells the story
of how Hitler came to power, and it tells the
story from the perspective of the person who
was there. So it was written in the, I want to
say, 60s and 70s by a person who was a journalist
that lived through it. And it's one of the best
books on the entirety of the whole Third Reich
project, how evil came to be. And so I've been
trying to for the last two months to do an episode.
And I think it's going to take another year.
Because it sucks. And it's hard. It's hard work.
It's fascinating. To put together it the way
he does. The way he does. Very difficult. And
he doesn't call himself a historian. So everybody's
got demons. His demons are like the historians
that criticize him for getting something incorrectly.
So he feels like he's never going to live up
to the accuracy required. to uh sort of be respected
by the academic historians there's also a problem
with the academic historians don't like the fact
that he's famous for that of course that's always
there's a lot of ego involved in anything academic
right yeah but he's a storyteller and he's a
masterful storyteller and he's good at abandoning
that that stance you know and saying you know
being self -deprecating and saying he's not a
not a historian yeah so he's obsessed with uh
Alexander the Great. He wants to do a whole series
on Alexander the Great, which is probably one
of the most badass sort of conquerors in history.
I think Tyson was obsessed with Alexander the
Great. Genghis Khan, too. So obviously he did
an amazing job with Genghis Khan. That Wrath
of the Khans is the greatest historical thing
I've ever listened to in my life. And eventually
he says he wants to try Hitler. But that one
is... I struggle with that one because I think
it's the most useful to understand because it's
so modern. It's useful. I feel like Hitler is
a really interesting person to study in the context
of Stalin as well, of communism, of fascism,
the economic systems, how depression in the United
States leads eventually to conflict and violence.
How a charismatic leader can take control of
a populace. There's so much about human nature
that you can learn from there that feels more
directly relevant to us now than maybe even like
Alexander the Great. It just feels like there's
a lot of lessons. What was the criticism about
the Trump episode? The Trump episode. So steering
into the iceberg, I think the episode is called.
I think the nature of the criticism was that
Trump. magnified the division which ultimately
shut down the ability of people of having nuanced
conversations and to be able to reason and whenever
you destroy reason you're not able to do what
you're not able to make the decisions that kind
of keep this country great you know to you're
not able to think clearly like grounded in in
like a deep real humble understanding of reality
you're more focused on the division so you construct
sort of narratives about the other side that
they're evil somehow and you go into this battle
this isn't just Twitter this is everywhere and
so his argument was that this kind of process
once it gets going You're going to have a charismatic
leader that takes over, like Trump or somebody
else, that then is going to make it worse and
worse and worse. There's too much incentive to
make it worse. And that's going to ultimately
lead us to destroy this nation that was great.
It's a different kind of mania than what grabbed
Germany when Hitler took over. It's a different
kind of mania because of social media. And because
there's too much information, there's too many
competing ideas for it to be the same sort of
situation. But I think people were really worried
because what happened with Hitler in World War
II is we would like to think that's outside of
what's possible today. But I don't think we really
believe that. I think deep down in our hearts
we know that a charismatic leader with all of
the wrong intentions, with all of the right things
lining up in terms of the economy falling apart,
in terms of the lack of patriotism. uh in general
or a feeling of insecurity by the nation and
then all sudden they get they get exhumed they
get risen from the dead by some charismatic person
who can talk people into doing wild shit and
i think we saw a little bit of that with the
storm in the capital when he said you have to
be strong it's a show of force so when i when
i saw that i was like oh jesus christ like those
words And there's a real question of whether
or not those words were inciting and whether
or not what he did was illegal. I don't know.
I'm not a lawyer, obviously. But the rhetoric,
that kind of rhetoric, like you have to show
strength. What exactly did Trump say? Because
he said something along the lines of you can't
be weak. You have to be strong. They need to
show a force or something like that. Yeah, that's
a really good point, because you have to read
his words exactly. Because every time I read
his words on paper, they don't sound as dramatic
as I think they're being reported on. Right.
Sometimes you've got to look at it again. Speaking
of Hitler, you have to listen to the delivery,
too. I think BBC did a really nice program on
Hitler, on the charisma of Hitler. He had way
better meth. The drugs are just the best. The
Nazi Germany had the best. There's a really good
book on the drugs that fueled the Nazi regime.
I feel like, damn it, I wish I remembered the
title. It's a book entirely about all the drugs
that they loved that fueled that entire war,
the entire regime. And it's probably, we don't
talk about it often, you could probably attribute
most of the Nazi regime to just really good drugs.
A lot of it, legitimately. One of the thoughts,
there was apparently, God, I wish I remember
who told me this. But there was a moment where
Hitler was supposed to meet Mussolini. And he
was apparently just like broken down. He was
completely exhausted. I can't remember. Jamie,
do you remember who brought this up on the podcast?
I tried to look it up before and I couldn't find
it. So I don't remember who told us this story.
Someone told us a story where Hitler was going
to meet Mussolini. And Hitler was just... Just
beyond exhausted. And they pump him full of testosterone
and cocaine. They injected cocaine into him and
testosterone. And he meets Mussolini and he just
starts ranting. He just fucking corners him and
coke talks at him for like five hours. And Mussolini
was ready to back out of the war. Mussolini's
like, what are we doing? Why are we doing this?
And Hitler just fucking berates him until he
gives up and he goes along with it. There's a
really interesting relationship with Mussolini,
but Mussolini was always on board. He was like,
but can we just not do this whole thing you're
doing? Do we need to go to war? But they were
kind of buds, and he was able to convince them.
So that's an interesting set of conversations
that people should look at. The really interesting
set of conversations is between Hitler, Chamberlain,
so between Hitler, Britain, and France. And my
favorite part is when it was France, Britain,
and Czechoslovakia, so in the very early days.
And Hitler was just, it's clear to me, there's
an element of like Jeffrey Epstein style smoothness
and charisma that in the room he was able to
convince people that he ultimately wants peace.
And at the same time, there's this moment that
really is so dark. It kind of haunts me. I'm
not sure exactly. You know, the Jeffrey Epstein
thing is a weird comparison because Eric Weinstein
says Jeffrey Epstein wasn't smooth at all. I
know that's what Eric says. Eric is far smarter
than the average human being. Far smarter to
the point where he's not buying anybody's bullshit.
And he met with Epstein and he said right away,
he's like, well, this is a construct. He's like,
he's an actor. This is a construct. This guy
doesn't know what he's talking about. He thought
it was 100 % bullshit. I love Eric. And he is
indeed brilliant. Probably way smarter than me.
But he's also flawed. No. Like all humans are.
What? And I disagree with him on that one. Well,
listen. Did you meet Jeffrey Epstein? No, but
I've met a lot of people who met him. Who did
you meet that met him? Just the MIT, so all the
scientists, everybody met him. This is the dark
thing. All the scientists met him. Let me help
you out here. Here's the difference. Here's one
of the differences. First of all, Eric has gotten
laid. It's happened before. He probably got laid
a lot when he was younger. Just to clarify, people,
I have also gotten laid. That's not what Joe
is referring to. I'm not talking about you. I'm
talking about a lot of these scientists. A lot
of these scientists. that is their kryptonite
it's not a coincidence that this guy allegedly
it's not a coincidence this guy allegedly involved
a huge part of the scientific community in this
crazy thing where he's got a fucking island and
he ships off these brilliant minds over there
allegedly and introduces them to a lot of these
ladies allegedly okay listen that is the kryptonite
i meant allegedly referring to the kryptonite
of sex being a kryptonite for scientists. For
dorks. For dorks. Listen, you and I will always
disagree on this. Disagree? There's no disagreeing.
I don't think that we can put all scientists
in the group of dorks, but yes, there's a lot
of dorks. No, can't put Eric in there. That's
why he saw through the bullshit. I don't know.
I hear what you're saying. That's conspiratorial,
I think, because to say— There's many elements.
I think what Eric says, which is like he was
just a tool of something bigger, that's a problem
to me because it removes their— the responsibility
of evil from an individual and saying that there's
some other evil beside in in the darkness it's
it's possible no no no no no no no he's saying
that he's a part of the intelligence community
and that's that's actually been reported on do
you know that when he was arrested the initial
arrest and when they he was given a very lenient
sentence one of the guys who was involved in
that case said it was above my pay grade and
that i was told he was a part of the intelligence
community Now, the word had always been that
he was either a Mossad agent or someone along
those lines. Now, if you have some of the most
brilliant minds in the world and you want to
compromise them and you want to somehow or another
get them entangled in your world, there's two
great steps. I think you need some more of that,
little fella. I was going to say, do you want
to be... Hold up, hold up. I thought you considered
yourself a man. You're drinking. What are you
talking about? Not sufficiently. I already drank
it. I finished. I know. I finished one before
you, pussy. We should have another one. Okay.
What I was saying is, if you wanted to compromise...
Cheers, sir. Cheers. Good to see you, man. Good
to see you. Legitimately. Really good to see
you here. As I try to talk you into moving to
Texas. There's two ways you would compromise
the scientific community. One of them being money.
So he gives them money, funding. Helps them.
Millions of dollars. Donated millions of dollars
to various projects, various things they're working
on. To women. Bring all these scientists together.
Bring these brilliant guys together with the
promise of money for all their projects they're
working on. And then you bring them to an island.
And they say, hey, everything's fine here. Don't
worry about it. I got a fucking temple that's
painted like the Jewish flag. He's really flagged.
I have faith that scientists have more integrity
than that, but... But it's not a matter of integrity.
Like, everything was above board. If they don't
know what he's doing, and they're innocent, right,
then they haven't done anything wrong, and he's
giving them money and taking pictures with them.
Just simply by taking pictures with them, they're...
Oh, they're compromising yourself. Yeah. I see.
Okay, I thought you meant, like, say there's
a beautiful young lady here, and then she was
tasked with escorting me around to show how wonderful
Texas is. All you have to do is have photographs
with you and this beautiful young lady. The compromise.
Yes. Now, I do not know what happened, obviously,
because I wasn't there. But I would imagine that
if he was really a part of the intelligence community,
there was probably a directive. There was probably
something that they were working on to try to
get these people to go along with whatever the
fuck he was doing. But say to me that those are
both different flavors of evil. Both of them
are not good. But the intelligence community
has always done that. They have always compromised
people with sex. And they've always compromised
people with money. This is standard. I've directly
talked to people who are in the CIA who would
describe methods that they would use to compromise
individuals. Wait, so is this – could the scientists
have done something to avoid it? It's hard because
if they don't know, right, they're promised funding,
and then you have other scientists that are also
going to be there. Hey, this guy's going to be
there. Hey, you got that guy. This guy won this
prize, and he's going to be there. And this guy's
from MIT. He's going to be there. And you're
like, well, that would be a fun party. Let's
go. Should I bring my wife? If Epstein is that,
like why – so there was – I guess actually Eric
makes this argument. It's like the whole thing
that Jeffrey Epstein was a pedophile. was actually
a negative in that sense, if he is a part of
the intelligence community. You know what I think?
The fact that he's a criminal is a negative.
I interrupted you. I think it is a negative,
but I think when you're involved in that much
depravity, I think you can get compromised. I
think it's like a DEAH and it becomes a drug
dealer. I think when you're around... Darkness
all the time. I mean, that happens a lot where
undercover cops become drug dealers. It just
happens. They live in that world for too long,
and it just gets in their veins. Well. Not saying
that he wasn't initially to begin with, but,
I mean, who fucking knows? We're throwing a lot
of speculation out there. But still, so I try
to sort of defend. I have faith. And scientists
having integrity. But the getting laid thing
is a thing. I found myself not being affected
by... I really don't like strip clubs. And money.
I'm not affected by those things. I've actually
been attacked in the past for... Like, who is
your funding source? Because I've been supportive
of some of the things that Tesla has done. And
like asking, anytime you're supportive of anything,
they ask like, what's your funding source? You
gotta stop reading comments. These aren't comments.
I haven't actually tattooed that on whatever.
No, this is from like more like legitimate science.
I ignore it. Legitimate scientists have attacked
you for defending Tesla? Not attacked, but well,
yes, yes. Because the argument is. that they
are creating a product that's deployed out into
the wild that can potentially be dangerous. You
mean auto drive? Autopilot, yes. So there's a
lot of criticisms of naming that product like
autopilot or now it's called full self -driving.
But do you think that the argument for that would
be... If autonomous vehicle driving is ultimately
one day far safer, and most people believe it
will be. Don't you believe it will be far safer
than just manual human operations of vehicles?
It's complicated, but yes. Most likely. If you
get to 50 years from now, 30 years from now,
how the fuck do they think it's going to get
there? Without implementing it. What do you think?
It's going to be implemented completely theoretically
and not in the wild? Can I try to lay it out
just real quick? So I don't know if you're familiar.
There's a place called Phoenix, Arizona. And
there's a company. It used to be Google Self
-Driving Car. They're now called Waymo. They
have deployed what is an autonomous vehicle in
Phoenix. It's like an Uber app. You can order
it. And he can deliver you or drive you to a
bunch of different locations in Phoenix. So it's
basically like Uber. No driver. No driver. So
this is the key thing. There's not a driver sitting
there not doing anything. There's not a human
not doing anything there, supervising. There's
no person in the vehicle. It's trippy. I've gone
there just to try it. Yeah, I did it. It's trippy.
It'll freak you out. They're in the back seat?
You're sitting there in the back seat and landing
some asshole robot. Turn the steering wheel for
you. And then, like, what is that thing? No,
these are just, like, some generic, some crappy,
well, I'll do respect. It's some minivan type
of car. It's great. It's wonderful. Whatever.
This is it? Oh, my God. This is madness. But,
like, when you're in there and it turns the steering
wheel, it's like, what if it takes me to my death?
Well, who's manufacturing these vehicles? What
is that? It looks like Chrysler. Yeah, it might
be Chrysler. That's right. It looks like the
steering wheel looks like a Chrysler. Is that
correct? Yeah, I think it's a Chrysler Pacifica.
Is that what it says, Jamie? I have no idea.
You're right on the Chrysler. I think it's Chrysler
Pacifica. Yeah, okay. Chrysler Pacifica. I didn't
even know Chrysler made a driverless car. No,
no, no, no, no. This is really important. This
is a non -driverless car that Waymo then converts
completely. They don't. Oh. Waymo is the brains
of the operation here. So Waymo is doing the
radar, the LIDAR on top. You see that? They've
changed it. They sexied it up. And there's a
bunch of little different sensors around. It
has all the intelligence. It's really cool. Like
if you want to taste the future, try this car
out. You get a button that says pull over. Yeah.
But the interface, because it's the Chrysler
Pacifica, is like kind of shitty, to be honest.
It's like very old school. But see that thing?
Like it shows you what the car is seeing and
what it's doing. And me as a, you know. I mean,
I connect with you on the chimp side. We both
have the same ancestors. It feels weird to let
a robot control your whole life as it's traveling
50 miles an hour. Well, I think ultimately this
is going to be way safer. No, ultimately, yes.
But this is an example. The reason I bring it
up, people in the scientific community, and I
could see that argument, and I felt that argument,
and I... partially agree to it, which is this
is the safe way to proceed. They're slowly mastering
Phoenix, Arizona currently. They're mastering
it and slowly growing. Tesla Autopilot is like,
we're going to deploy this autopilot technology
to the entire world. To hundreds of thousands
of people. I don't use the autopilot. I have
it. I don't use it. Jamie, do you use yours?
I did it once. It felt gnarly. I've used it with
my wife just to, like, freak her out. Watch this,
baby. I did it on a windy -ass road, too, with
cars coming at me, two -way road. Oh, my God,
did you? I kept my hand on the wheel the whole
time, and a couple times it would just, like,
I didn't even realize it gave it back to me.
The question is, have you taken a long road trip?
That was 20 miles, 30 miles. That's as long as
it was. That's a good move, right? If you're
taking a long road trip because you could just
chill. Yeah, chill on the highway. Yeah. That's
where people get the benefit of it. Yeah. Well,
I used to take it home from the comedy store
when I was tired. So I'd be there hanging out
and it'd be like 1 .30 in the morning. I'd be
tired. I love that. Then I'd get on the 101 and
just let it ride. Was it energizing? At the store?
Or tiring? No, no, no. Relaxing. Letting the
car. Just relaxing where I can just... hold on
the wheel, and pay attention to the road a little
bit, but not like I am if I'm driving a sports
car. You think so? You think you're paying attention
less? I think so. Well, a sports car is different.
You mean like a sports car driven at a fast speed?
One of the surprising things to me is that it
seems that people are a little bit more alert
when they turn on autopilot. So this idea that
you become more detached from the road. was counterintuitive
like that's what i thought would happen but it
seems like people are less they become more alert
they become less kind of weirded out by the fact
they're doing this like yeah yeah i mean i don't
know it's but the point is there's a lot of open
questions from a human psychology perspective
and that's where the scientific community speaks
up like elon seems to be going full steam ahead
yeah and he's doing the one of the really cool
things i don't know if you're paying attention
to this but they're really deploying the full
self -driving beta uh technology so like it's
now able to for the people in the beta program
the FSD beta program, it's able to take left
turns, right turns, stop at the light, actually
take you from point A to point B fully autonomously,
except the liability is still with you. You're
supposed to always pay attention. And this is
another public, what is it? Service announcement.
Service announcement. Always pay attention to
the road. I bought that, and I never had it installed.
It was one of those things where I was in my
car, and it was like, would you like to order
that? I'm like, okay. Elon's going to be mad
at you. I'm just kidding. I have to bring it
somewhere. That's the problem. I thought I could
just download it, but you've got to bring it
somewhere. Oh, because your car needs to be modified
in order to support it. Yeah. Whatever the new
thing is that I paid for, because they keep emailing
me. But both the pro and the con of the way Tesla
does things is that they're constantly improving
things. And some of those are in the hardware.
So sometimes you have to go and get your car
modified and upgraded in order to support that
kind of stuff. I think it's incredibly exciting.
I think it's one of the things I've changed my
mind on is the ability of cars to drive. Fully
autonomously. I don't think as soon as Elon says,
but I think very soon. When do you think it'll
be? It's hard to make... We should tell everybody
that you actually have a background in AI, so
you're not talking out of your ass like me. Well,
my side gig is being an expert in Conor McGregor
fights, drinking whiskey. Yeah, no, I worked
on autonomous vehicles for a long time. I still
work on autonomous vehicles. Yeah, and I'm deep
in the scientific community. And one of the only
people who is appreciative of what Elon is doing
and of what the entirety of the robotic community
is doing. One of the only people? Yeah, it's
Apple versus Android. The scientists are very...
I think it's jealousy, to be honest. I like both.
I have an Android phone, too. You do? Yeah, I
do. I have a Note. I think this is a metaphor
for the division that ultimately creates progress.
I think the Apple -Android is a good analogy.
Yeah. Because there's a weirdness. There's a
weirdness to the Android people. They're the
resistance. They're like, I'm hanging in there.
I'm kidding. I don't give a fuck, bro. We should
all use Signal. Yes. Legitimately should all
use Signal. Signal's amazing. I use Signal on
my iPhone. I use Signal with a lot of my friends.
I use Signal on my Android phone. There's like
a threshold I'm waiting for that people like
Switch. A lot of people are switching. I talked
to Moxie from Signal, one of the guys who created
it. He'd been on the podcast in the past. Yeah,
that's right. How do you say his last name? Mapplethorpe?
No. Marlon Spike. Marlon Spike. I'm thinking
of Robert Mablethorpe, the artist. Marlon Spike.
Moxie's amazing. He's a really interesting guy.
And completely altruistic intentions. Not trying
to make any money off of Signal. And he said
that when Elon was telling people to use Signal...
Something happened and Signal literally gained
the amount of users of a small country in like
a couple of days. They had an outage a few days
ago, Signal did, and I talked to Moxie about
it because I sent a message about something.
There was an article that was demonizing Signal.
And this it was really disturbing to me because
they were demonizing signal and demonizing. Let
me find it because I'll send it to you, Jamie,
because it was they were demonizing signal and
they were demonizing encryption. And they were
saying that it's a tool of the the people that
stormed the Capitol and this kind of shit. I
was like, what the fuck are you talking about?
So it was this weird like. plea to Big Brother
to look in on everybody and to make sure that
everything's okay. It was a very disturbing thing.
I think a lot of people that got... I'd love
to hear your opinions, actually, on Parler. There
are a lot of people that moved to Signal as a
place to try to communicate with each other when
all the platforms are banning just a bunch of
different accounts. It's really unfortunate,
man, because I see both sides. I really do. And
I know some people don't. I'm going to send this
to you, Jamie. Some people don't see both sides.
I really do see both sides. I don't think that
most people are doing this because they want
to support some sort of gigantic government overreach
a la NSA, Edward Snowden exposed stuff. I think
most people do worry that these kind of things
will escalate. Now what we saw, the attack of
Capitol Hill, we'll keep going. Millions flock
to Telegram. So this is something that Glenn
Greenwald posted. Millions flock. to Millions
flock to Telegram and Signal as fears grow over
big tech. But go back to what Glenn said, because
Glenn had a really good point. He said, three
journalistic units most devoted to demanding
online censorship are CNN's media reporters,
NBC's disinformation team, and New York Times
tech reporters. Here's the letter laying the
groundwork for making encrypted apps Signal and
Telegram the next targets. And scroll down to
his next tweet, please. He said, when the internet
and encryption proliferated in the 1990s, the
Clinton administration seized the Oklahoma City
bombing to demand backdoor access to all encryption.
Bush and Obama used 9 -11 to radically expand
internet surveillance. Now it's CNN, NBC, New
York Times journalists who take the lead. And
there's a whole stream. It's from January 15th
from Glenn Greenwald, who's an amazing follow.
on Twitter and just a fantastic journalist. But
his take on it is accurate. You've got to be
really careful when people are calling for denouncing
encryption, privacy. You should be able to say
things privately between each other. There's
no fucking reason why anybody should know what
you're saying to me. And the way you text most
of the time, SMS, with your wacky fucking Android
device, that is the least private way. OnePlus
Pro 7. Oh, is that a new one? Galaxy, no, it's
not that new, but Galaxy S21, best phone on the
market. Are you going to get the Galaxy S21?
Probably. It looks so sexy. It does. The Ultra
looks very sexy. I don't know. I wasn't, I don't
know what to think. You're right. I'm personally
torn about the whole banning of all these different
accounts of social media. The one that really
hit me. was Amazon, I don't know if you're paying
attention to this, but Amazon removing Parler
from AWS. It feels like that created a worse
world, a more dangerous world. Because there's
a difference to me than banning accounts on Twitter,
which is also very complicated. But it's like
the difference between banning the ability to
make a phone call, the ability of like... banning
your number blocking your number versus banning
your ability to make a phone call at all when
the actual infrastructure based on which your
apps operate is now putting its finger on the
scale of who succeed or not now that starts affecting
capitalism that means twitter can't have a competitor
that's like That has the conspiracy theorists.
That has the people that are allowed to say crazy
shit about Jeffrey Epstein not killing himself
or something. I don't think that's crazy. Some
people might think it's crazy, right? You think
it's crazy? What do you think? If you had all
your money and you had to put it on red or black,
you had to put it on he didn't kill himself or
he did kill himself. Red or black. i'm pushing
all my chips on he didn't kill himself yeah i
would i would uh see i feel like you would be
more excited by the push i would be just sadly
pushing towards he didn't kill himself oh you
feel like i'm i have a problem with the way i
look at things i'm judging why would i be more
excited do you think i do you think i favor chaos
over you uh well i got Enough chances to interact
with Michael Malice to where you're not even
close to that side of the spectrum. No. He gets
excited. He doesn't have any children. That's
right. Yeah, I have children. I have three daughters,
and that's the most vulnerable. Just slaying
Maxwell, hearing illegally streamed by apparent
QAnon followers. They broke in and said there's
14 ,000 people watching illegally. But here's
the thing, man. Fucking everybody who does something
like that now is a QAnon follower. It's the greatest
way to dismiss people ever. You were talking,
Jamie and I were talking before the podcast about
these hilarious threads of these QAnon followers
realizing they've been had and saying, I can't
believe Biden's the president. And then there's
some really dumb ones who think Biden is in on
the QAnon conspiracy and he's helping. Whoa,
that's another level. Oh, it's all nonsense,
right? It's just that... It's literally the most
unsophisticated minds trying to interpret things
and looking for secrets that they can uncover.
So it's really crude, bumbling, and you see these
guys with flannel shirts on where their bellies
are poking out and the buttons are stretching
because they're so fat. And they're like, Q has
told us that this is that and that is this. And
so what's going to happen is it's a setup and
Trump has got them all locked up and everything
has been blockchained. and they and there's so
many people that buy into all this shit and it's
it's weird to watch it's weird to watch it all
play out but it's the same thing as bigfoot it's
the same thing it's the same intention as people
who are channeling aliens some beta reticuli.
It's the same fucking thing. It's people that
want to pretend they have some secret information
because their life is boring as fuck. And they
want to spice it up with some secret intel on
the U .S. government by Q. And Q is gut. They
know. They know what's happening. And it's easy
to get sucked into that. Just like it's easy
to get sucked into channeling. It's easy to get
sucked into psychics and card readers. And Bigfoot
and all that stuff. It's easy to get sucked into
believing that someone has this really exciting
secret. They know some things that other people
don't know. But there's so many secrets that
are fascinating and that are closer to the truth.
Like a lot of science has a lot of secrets. Oh,
yeah. Sure. I would say you're at the forefront
of revealing some of the things on the alien
side that are like... I got more coming. more
coming oh shit i got a lot more people coming
i've been doing like an alien interview once
every month yeah hell yeah with uh ufo interviews
some of them like uh so the ivy lobe guy thank
you very much by the way for recommending him
and and he's legit so people should check him
out in the key so outside of aliens this the
same thought mindset he has he applies to a lot
of questions in science his thoughts about black
holes are really interesting people should really
follow he's brilliant he's a brilliant dude brilliant
so when a guy like him is saying that this interstellar
object that travels faster by far by more than
twice of any comet or any asteroid that we've
ever observed that is coming away from the sun
not affected by the sun's gravity that is is
10 times more reflective than any other object
we've ever observed that one of the things that
Jeremy Corbell sent me is that it appears that
it's commonly depicted that that object, a muamua,
is a cigar -shaped. Cigar -shaped. It's most
likely flat, like Jeremy said, yeah. Jeremy said
it's like a disc. That's what Avi says, too.
Yeah, it's from his book. So the things that
people have, the way they've described it, I'll
try to find Jeremy's. Yes, most likely. The reflectivity
suggests that it's most likely to be a disc.
A disc, yeah. Of course, Jeremy says flying saucer
-like. Of course he does. This is from Avi's
book. The likelihood of a muamua being disc -shaped
was about 91%. So that's like artistic interpretations
based on the idea that it was an object, like
a rock. But he says that it's flat. See, I tend
to believe. Cigar isn't what I would go with
on that. Cigar shape. What do you think, a shit?
Yeah. A turd. Yeah, it looks like a flying turd.
Definitely. This is a kid's show, Jamie. I would
say it. But you know what, man? I think this
is, I'm going to go way out here. This thing
that people have where they want to believe in
Q or they want to believe in aliens or they want
to believe in Bigfoot, they want to find these
secrets, I think this is ultimately the reaching
for the branch. This is a call to psychic powers.
And I think ultimately that's what we're trying
to develop as human beings. And I think it's
taking many, many, many generations. And I think...
the the evolution of human communication through
grunts and and and gestures all the way up to
sounds all the way up to complicated computer
code and various languages I think that what
we are doing is trying to evolve human communication,
whether it's through biology or whether it's
through technology, to the point where there
are no secrets. And I think that's coming. And
I don't think it's going to be as far off in
the future as many people think. And I think
Elon and this Neuralink shit, these are the first
warning shots of this. symbiotic relationship
that we're going to have with technology that
allows us to read each other's minds. And this
is what I've been saying for a while, that I
think this is the future of human beings. I think
the future of human beings is the thing that's
going to save us. We're going to realize that
we're in this massive conflict between lies and
truth and encryption and disinformation and propaganda
and these fucking crazy conspiracy theorists
and all these people that you know are alt -right
and white supremacists and you know he is are
the proud boys evil or was it all just a joke
what what what's the truth I want to know the
truth because the fucking mainstream media does
not have a vested interest in telling you the
truth. They have a vested interest in telling
you whatever the fuck they should tell you that's
going to make the most people around them happy
and sell the most clicks and get them the most
views. And so we've got a conflict. We've got
a massive conflict. Two polarized sides, right
and left, red and blue. No one knows how to get
out of this okay. No one knows. The way to get
out of this okay, the way we get out of this
is we can clearly see. everyone's intentions
and maybe some people that you thought were bad
or not bad maybe they're really good and maybe
some people you thought were good were really
bad they're just playing on the heartstrings
of what's the common consensus of what you're
supposed to say what pronouns are you supposed
to use what are the words you're supposed to
utter what are the things that you're supposed
to repeat there's a lot of really bad actors
out there that are playing upon these cultural
narratives that may not be They might be sociopaths,
but they're saying the things that you can say
publicly. Privately, people know. Privately,
people are terrified. Privately, people are like,
she's fucking crazy. Like, I can't believe she
got to where she got. Do you know what she did?
Do you know who she is? Do you know who her uncle
is? Do you know who her grandfather is? Do you
know what the fucking, the family history of
these demons from hell? Like, this is a lot of
people talking this, but publicly, Del. espouse
woke scripture. It's dark. It is dark. The way
out of it is to read each other's minds. That's
the way out of it. Wow. I think I love the picture
you paint of reaching for branches and everyone's
reaching for different branches. I think on the
path to reading each other's minds, there's going
to be a lot of technologies that allow you to
read each other's minds. in more subtle ways
before it's like full -on waterfall, neural link,
just... I think that's what social media does.
We can reach each other's minds. I mean, we're
all struggling with this. And I think despite
the media and all that, everybody is just like
the alien folks are reaching for the different
branches and underlying that is ultimately like...
A curiosity and an optimism. And that's how we
got to where we are today. It's just like chimps
being, you know, the sons of apes. But it starts
with bacteria. It's just like reaching. Always
reaching for the next branch. Like hopeful. Yeah.
Because like most of life is kind of shitty.
And you're always trying to reach out and make
a better life. And it's gotten better and better
and better and better because of that kind of
reaching. That's what Elon does with his crazy
thoughts about... First of all, landing on Mars
and then colonizing Mars and colonizing other
planets. It seemed crazy at the time. But because
of that kind of reaching, a hundred years from
now, several hundred years from now, it'll be
ridiculous to think that obviously we would not
be colonizing this solar system and even other
solar systems. And that kind of thinking then
moves to robots, AI. Yeah. I don't know if you
saw. Okay. I was trying to bring Spot here. No.
Yeah. I'll fucking shoot it. Exactly. I'll shoot
that dog. Good luck. Spot is a... I would never
shoot a real dog. It's a robot dog, folks. Oh,
it's not real to you. No, not yet. Maybe one
day it will be. You met my dog? You met Marshall?
Yes. No, I... Did you meet him? God damn it,
I was going to bring him here today. But in the
confusion of trying to find my suit and get to
the dry cleaner and all that jazz, it was a real
problem. I'm honored. I think the world would
love to see a jerk in a suit. I was going to.
But I can't wear regular collars. Yeah, no, that's
right. It has to be custom made. So I have this
David August custom suit for this fucking gorilla
neck I have. The iron neck, man. Do you use that
yet? Yeah, you showed it to me. Yeah. You don't
have one yet? No, I don't have one. I'll get
you one. I'll get you one. I'd love that, actually.
They actually just reached out to me because
me talking about it so much is blowing their
company up. They asked me if anybody needs one,
if anybody wants one. I do a lot of bridges.
No, no, don't do that. No? No, no, no, no. That's
how Mike Tyson fucked his neck up. Bridges, the
problem with bridges is you're putting all this
weight on those discs. The thing about the Iron
Neck is when you have this halo on and this bungee
cord. Mike Jolly, the guy who invented it, was
a fucking gigantic NFL player. It was so intimidating
meeting him. I'm like, hi. He's so much bigger
than me. And you pull the cord. The cord is a
50 -pound bungee. And then you have this halo
around your head that you can change the resistance.
And so you go. but you're never doing this. So
this is how people fuck their necks up. They
fuck their necks up by putting an unnatural load
on those discs. Like a compression. Yeah, well,
a compression and just a strain on the disc itself,
and it causes herniations. By keeping everything
in alignment, but operating against resistance,
you never put pressure on those discs. I've had
a tremendous result with it. I talk about it.
I mean, I don't have any interest in the company.
I don't own any of it. They never paid me. I
talk about it openly. Do you try to get, like,
reps, like, once a week or something like that?
I do it twice a week. Twice a week? Yeah, I do
it twice a week. Yeah, but I do once a week pretty
light. But I do a lot of other neck stuff, too.
A lot of trap stuff. There's a lot of cleans
and presses which work your traps, you know?
Yeah, there's a lot of, like, little maintenance
work like that for... I feel like... you have
to study your own body like what kind of gets
you in trouble like i used to uh and not used
to i still do uh train wrist stuff how do i put
this where people are not going to be like Jerk
off? Jerk off, yeah, exactly. Wrist curls. Wrist
curls. So I get in trouble with the wrists. Shoulders
is a huge problem. You mentioned knees. Shoulders
is a huge problem for me, so I use bands. I recommend
it highly, just bands to do all kinds. There's
all kinds of movements you can do on the shoulder.
Have you had shoulder problems? Like overuse
problems, not major like shit broke problems
yet. Do you get MRIs? Not yet. So you don't know
if you broke anything. No. But the Goggins thing,
this is why I'm preparing. Like cue the Rocky
music. Because of Goggins, I did this challenge
where I did 20 ,000 push -ups and pull -ups,
25 ,000. That's when the shoulder was like, oh,
shit. Yeah. The problem is the tendons. The tendons
don't want that. The overuse injury. There's
a fine line between. This idea of 40%, like people
quit at 40%, pushing past that but also having
irreparable physical damage to your body. You
sound like a pussy, sir. Yeah, I do. I do. I
sound like a guy who's had his knees reconstructed.
There's a certain level. Weakness gets us all,
ladies and gentlemen. Age and love. Yeah, for
sure. You have daughters. Also, knowing what
you're physically capable of doing. versus not
doing that because you don't want your body to
break. The thing is, we all die one day. But
do you want to be Dan Gable, walking around in
your garage with bad hips and bad knees and doing
curls with rusty weights? Maybe you do. Maybe
you do. I think he lived a hell of a life. I'd
like to high -five him and then go fucking take
a nap. That's almost poetry. I don't know. That's
definitely the choice you make. I mean, you make
that choice in all kinds of aspects of life.
I make preservation choices when it comes to
my body. I do make preservation choices. Because
I think... Look, I love David. I love David Goggins.
And I love my friend Cam Haynes, who does basically
the same kind of shit. Maybe even more extreme.
Cam Haynes is in better shape. He's more crazy
in a lot of ways. He just doesn't have the same
kind of publicity that David does. He screams
a little bit less, but he runs like a marathon.
He doesn't scream at all. Yeah, he'll run a marathon
a day. And, you know, he'll regularly do 100
-mile runs and regularly do, I mean, he's run
the Moab 240, the Bigfoot 200. He's done some
fucking crazy shit. Cam's an unusual human being.
And he's also older than David, you know. Are
you? He looks young. He's my age. Cam's my age.
Interesting. Yeah. He's vibrant. He's like super...
Works a full fucking eight hours a day every
day. Works for the Oregon Department of Water
and Power. Puts in his fucking punches o 'clock
every day. And puts his time on the bow and all
that kind of stuff. Oh, yeah. Every day. No,
he's... He's got a good father. I think he's
got a kid, right? He's got three kids, and one
of them's a ranger, and the other one broke David
Goggins' pull -up record. Yep. Yeah, savages,
raising savages, and he's got a beautiful daughter,
too, who's brilliant. He's a man. I mean, he's
the fucking man. But, you know, these... He stays
injury -free, sorry to interrupt, to the point
of preservation. He's... He's a weird one, man.
He doesn't make any sense. I don't know how his
knees aren't trashed. David, they're pulling
out giant syringes. We were highlighting on the
podcast with The Undertaker how they're pulling
out these giant syringes of pus from Goggins'
knees. I don't know how he keeps going with those
knees. Cam doesn't have those problems. One time
I had to bring him to the doctor. We were in
Vegas and went for the fights, and he had something
fucked up with his foot. It turned out he had
a stress fracture. He didn't even stop running.
He didn't even stop running when he had a stress
fracture. He on purpose constructs situations
where others, including himself, thinks that
this is a bad idea and pushes through it. Oh,
dude. Here's another thing. The bow hunting community
doesn't know what to do with him. There's people
in the bow hunting community that don't like
what he does because he works out so hard. here's
the thing when you see cam haynes you see a guy
who's like this fitness endurance athlete but
that's deceiving because although he is those
things he is those things to be the best bow
hunter on earth and he makes a there's a real
argument that he's the greatest bow hunter of
all time like if if you ask me i'm i love him
to death but if i wasn't his friend And I was
on the outside looking at him, and I'm like,
who's the greatest bowhunter of all time? I'm
like, it might be Cam Haines. Like, it is a real
argument. Like, there's a couple of guys in the
running. John Dudley's in the running. Fred Bear
is the legend. There's a few of these guys, these,
like, legendary bowhunters. But this guy is so
successful, like, insanely successful every year,
every year in the most difficult pursuit. It's
really hard to be successful. Bow hunting elk
in the mountains. It's hard. He's successful
every year. And he pulls a 90 -pound bow. Now,
you can't even buy a 90 -pound bow from most
bow companies. They won't make you one. But he
fucking strong -arms them into making him a 90
-pound bow. So all these other bow companies,
or all these other bow hunters rather, a few
of them that are kind of butthurt and jealous,
are mad. that he is telling people he has a 90
-pound bow. My question is, do you think you're
as strong as him? And if you don't, what do you
give a fuck if he's pulling 90 pounds and you're
pulling 70 pounds? Are we trying to pretend that
we're all the same strength? Are we trying to
pretend? because that seems silly to me because
i know a lot of really fucking strong people
that are way stronger than me i don't want to
pretend that i'm the same strength as them and
if i found out there was a guy out there that
pulls 150 pound bow but he's like built like
the undertaker and he weighs 300 pounds i'd go
oh okay that makes sense that's like me pulling
uh you know a 90 pound bow or 100 pound bow that
would be easy for me But for him, a 150 -pound
bow would probably be just as easy. Because he's
fucking giant. Cam Haynes is working out every
day. You've got a problem with him pulling a
90 -pound bow. You don't really have a problem
with that. Your problem is with yourself. Your
problem is that you know you can't really do
that. And it bothers people. So there's this
weird ego thing in the bow hunting world. where
they get upset at him because he's a legitimate
psycho. Because he literally does get up at 4
o 'clock in the morning, run in the rain in the
dark, puts in a half a marathon before work,
goes to work, puts in another 10 miles during
lunchtime. He's a real psycho. Yeah, and I like
Goggins. The way he's an inspiration to me is
in how easy he makes it look. Smiles. He just
smiles. Stoic. He's just nice. Yeah. He's just
a nice human. Stay hard! There's none of that.
None of that. Have a good day, everybody. He's
out there running. In some sense, I don't follow
David Cain's say. Cam Haines. Cam Haines. That's
that whiskey talking. That's that whiskey talking.
One, two drinks. Is because he doesn't get me
ass pumped up. He's just an example I'd love
to live up to. There's something about the David
Goggins of just like, listen, motherfucker. You
gotta look at your demons. Make them your bitch.
It wakes you up. He's much more outwardly inspirational
because he... But he takes a lot of pleasure
in pumping people up. There's a beautiful – so
he's got – I think she's a girlfriend, but she
might be a wife. I apologize if I don't know.
Dave's wife? His wife? Yeah, his wife. Okay.
So they have – she's more and more becoming part
of his Instagram thing. And there's just like
this magical, in terms of relationship, moment
where she's filming him for his Instagram. They're
supposed to go out to dinner or something, like
a nice thing. And he... Is that when he's doing
push -ups? He's doing push -ups, yeah. In a puddle
of sweat on the carpet? That is the most... Just
like there's a romantic element of just like,
this is what I have to live with. But I also
love this man from her perspective. And also
there's this picture of Goggins who's like, I
don't give a fuck. I'm getting these push -ups
in. And he didn't really plan it. He's just there
in the corner. He's almost like, why are you
filming me right now? Just let me deal with my
demons. Look at this guy right here. I'm surprised
he has a bed. He's shaking his arms out while
he's doing these fucking push -ups. And with
that time limit. I know what that feels like.
My wife and I had dinner with him and his wife
and a couple other folks after UFC. The Vegas
one. Yeah, pre -pandemic, before all the shit
went down. And she was like, he's nice. He's
normal. He eats bread. That's what she kept saying.
My wife was like, he eats bread. She thought
he'd be like a fucking fire -breathing demon.
but he's fun like he's a fun guy i've hung out
with him a bunch of times he just gets the work
done he just gets drops down to the push -ups
and that well you know he knows that you know
there's my expression conquer your inner bitch
yeah he knows he's got an inner bitch and you
know he goes he goes it ain't easy sometimes
i look at my sneakers and i stare at those motherfuckers
for a half hour before i put them on but just
that admission that this is not he's not a robot
But he gets everything a robot does done. You
know, he can do it. Like as if he was, like he
pushes his mind to do things that the body does
not want to do. So he almost in some ways behaves
like a robot. But the value, one of the values
in Dave, multiple values in Dave, one of the
values is that he lets you know that he's not
a robot. He lets you know that he's got that
little bitch inside of him talking to him. yeah
he's uh i've gotten the fortune to actually interact
with him on the kind of the struggle side of
things and he's definitely still it's not an
act no he's still personally struggling with
some shit oh he's working through it oh yeah
yeah he gets angry in certain kinds of ways that's
like oh shit like so this is me for example going
out and running with him there's this uh you
know the movie casino It's this badass movie
with Robert De Niro and Joe Pesci and Sharon
Stone, I think. Yeah. Yeah. And they meet up.
James Woods, too. James Woods is Sharon Stone's
pimp. Oh, that's right. Good memory. That's a
badass movie. God, I miss movies like that. That's
another one. My wife loves that movie. Yeah.
I've seen that movie multiple times against my
will. Oh, you don't like that one? No, I do.
I like it. Is this like a scent of a woman situation?
No, it's like... There's certain movies that,
like, I've watched John Wick maybe a hundred
times. Yeah, you did. Like, legitimately. Not
that great of a movie. Shut your fucking hole,
you Russian traitor. You're wearing the uniform.
What? You're wearing a John Wick uniform. There's
other people that wear this. No, no, no. No one
does it better. He is dreamy, I will admit that.
Kanye West is dreamy. He once killed three men
in a bar with a pencil. Yeah. With a fucking
pencil. Is that historically accurate? That fucking
movie is so... If you like to work out and you
want to get fired up, that scene at the Russian
bathhouse at the Red Circle bar where he kills
everybody, that fucking movie is so good. How
do you say Chad's last name? Chad... That guy...
I always fuck up the pronunciation of his name.
It's very confusing here. Hold on. Chad... S
-T -A -H -E -L -S -K -I. He's going to get mad
because I say his name all the time. I communicate
with him. We text. I met him at Taron Tactical.
I shot guns with him. Where they taught Keanu
Reeves how to shoot guns. But... What pumps you
up more, the shooting guns or the fighting, the
martial arts, the judo? He does pretty good judo
and jiu -jitsu, which is, I got to give him credit
for that. It's madness. It's a masterpiece of
violence. If you want a revenge movie, they stole
his car and killed his dog. Killed his dog. And
so he kills everybody. I get it. I mean everybody.
It's a fucking great movie. Do you want him to
also wear some pointy ears and wear a cape? Because
they'll probably... make you even more excited.
No, it wouldn't. Because a real movie about drama
involves something like Casino, where it's like
real men. I don't need it to be real. I live
a real life, bro. That's why I like superhero
movies. People are like, didn't I like real life?
Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I live a real life, pussy.
Listen, speaking of which, you couldn't even
get yourself in a John Wick suit, so you're struggling.
Listen, you can't even live up to the idea. I
have a John Wick suit that fits me. Yeah. But
the fucking... You're more like the Hulk. You
just rip that thing apart. I'm a juice head.
That's the problem. I lift too much weights.
Talking a lot of shit. This fucking scene here
in the Russian bathhouse. Boom, boom. Two of
the... Come on, son. You want to go before that.
Is this what it is in the YouTube video? Go way
before when he stabs the guy. There it is. Right
there. Right there. He's... This... When... He
stabs the guy under his chin and looks him in
the eye. Watch this. All clear? Da. Da. Watch
this. Right here. This is one of my favorites.
When I was involved in this Sober October challenge
with my friends. Right here. Look at it. Right
in the eyes. That's what you were thinking about.
I watched this a hundred times in a row. I just
kept watching it over and over and over again
when I was on the elliptical machine. Oh, but
how's the carnivore thing going? Great. It's
going great. You still... I keep cheating, though.
I keep cheating with dessert. This is the problem
with carnivore, because I've been eating carnivore,
too. The problem is watching the Hollywood fight
is I drink a lot of beer. Yeah. Well, look, we're
drinking whiskey. Well, that's low carb. My problem
is dessert. I've been eating dessert. But I'm
lean. Yeah, I'm fairly lean for me. I'm probably
like right now like 199 -ish, somewhere around
there. But the problem is with carnivore, at
least for me. It makes me feel so good and lean
and focused and just energetic that when I go
off the path, it hits me way harder. Yeah. And
that almost enforces you to be almost too stoic
to where you can't have fun. I mean, not fun.
I'm not saying pigging out is fun, but there's
something social about even just drinking beers
or just pigging out. It does wreck your body,
though. It's interesting, right? Yeah. It's weird.
There's a recovery to it, but it does make you
feel really good. It doesn't make any sense.
It's weird, right? It jacks up your testosterone.
You should get your blood work done. The thing
that I find is that I don't have any crashes
in the day. I'm just flat throughout the day.
The real criticism is coming from people who
are either... There's some people that are...
They're very educated about nutrition and they
have a problem with the carnivore diet. There's
some evidence that points to the idea that it's
unhealthy. The anecdotal evidence, though, from
individuals that find great benefit in it is
very compelling. And unfortunately, I'm one of
those. Then there's also a lot of people that
make these arguments that are not... well -founded
about it being bad for the environment. And I
don't necessarily think monocrop agriculture
is good for the environment. I think the problem
with the environment is massive amounts of human
beings consuming food. And I don't believe the
argument that there's no way to eat meat that's
healthy for the environment because they've shown
that you can do regenerative agriculture. The
question is, you can get it. You can definitely
buy grass -fed beef from like Joel Salatin or
some Polyface Farms. There's a company, Piedmontese
Farms. They just sent me some beef. You can buy,
there's Rome. Is that the one that Carnivore
MD? Is that his Rome ranch, right? Paul Saladino?
It's funny enough. I think Ben Campo, something
like that, Ben Campo's farm sent me some meat.
There's like ethical ways of doing it. It's expensive,
though, right? It is expensive. ButcherBox, they
use all grass -fed, grass -finished beef, all
from ethically responsible farmers. They have
a real relationship with farmers and ranchers
where they treat their animals. ethically and
fairly and inhumanely. And a lot of people are
like, well, how can you do that if you kill them?
I understand your perspective. I understand your
perspective. But the way they kill these animals
is instantaneous. There's a bolt to the brain.
They die instantly. And I see the argument that
you should never kill a thing. But I think you
need to understand that. that death for an animal
that is essentially a prey animal like if you
look at this uh this weird mandala this weird
if you look at the the just the the range of
animals on the planet there are animals that
eat other animals and a cow is one of those animals
that gets eaten usually by large predators the
way they get eaten is horrific the best way for
them to die is from human hands if that human
does it correctly whether it's a hunter or whether
it's a farmer there's no animals that are wild
animals that live to be an animal that dies of
old age or if there are there the numbers are
so low it's you know it's like people that live
to be 120 there's not a lot of them most animals
die By starvation, by disease, or by predators.
The vast majority. If someone comes along, whether
it's me shooting it with an arrow, or whether
it's an ethical, humane farmer, like one of the
ones that ButcherBox employs, or some of these
other ranchers, you can get it. The real question
is not that. I mean, there's an ethical question.
It's a debate, and it should be handled. You
can have a respectful conversation about this.
But the real question is, can that sustain 7
point whatever billion people? And I don't know
if it can. I don't know if that's true. I think
our problem might be the massive amount of human
beings and the fact that... Very few natural
ways will sustain this population. Monocrop agriculture
is terrible. It's terrible for the soil. It's
terrible for the environment. It's terrible for
wildlife. It displaces wildlife. When they harvest
those crops, it's devastating to the wildlife.
It's devastating to small mammals and devastating
to insects, devastating to birds. Life for life
is not one for one. We don't look at a mouse
the same way we look at an elk. An elk is a large,
what my friend Steve Rinella calls a charismatic
megafauna. We look at them in a different way,
but it's one to one. These larger things we think
are more valuable. If I shoot one elk, I eat
it for a year. Like, I give it out. Oh, do you
have a place to cook? Yeah. You have an apartment?
Yeah. I got food for you. I love it. I have two
commercial freezers out here. I don't know how
to put it towards my gratitude towards that,
yeah. Good. I got a bag for you. I'm going to
hook you up. I feel kind of bad about eating
meat that's factory farmed. Yeah. Well, I do
too. I know what you're saying. But health -wise,
I think I feel better when I eat a lot of meat.
I don't know if I could break apart the psychology
of it. Do you struggle with it, like, ethically?
Because I feel, on a personal level, really good
eating meat. Yeah. And I understand. It feels...
This doesn't mean, like, being a social justice
warrior or signaling or something. It feels like
this would be one of those things that, in 100
years, we'll look back and say, this was a really
fucked up thing that we did as a society. I'm
not sure. This is why I'm not sure. Because...
What are we going to do to control the population
of these animals? Once we've established herds
of cows and sheep and chickens and all these
different animals that we consider livestock,
how are we going to stop them from breeding?
Are we going to separate them from each other?
Are we going to play God? Are we going to bring
in predators? What are we going to do? If we
stop eating them, what are we going to do? And
are we acknowledging? There's a lot of people
that are vegan zealots, and they do not believe
that it can be healthy to eat meat. The problem
with that is, of course, that almost all elite
professional athletes eat meat. There's very
few exceptions. There's a few that do well, and
there's also a few that try vegan diets, and
their bodies wind up falling apart. And vegans
hate that. They hate when you talk about it.
They get angry because it's an ideology. You
could say it's almost cult -like. they also have
some good points like they're not killing sentient
beings and they don't think of plants as being
a sentient being right problem with that is of
course when you do mushrooms you realize that
all things are alive yeah that's what uh you
i hope you get matthew johnson in your podcast
by the way that guy is he the guy that did that
you had on yours yeah psychedelic drugs guy yeah
okay i gotta okay he opened up my mind so i've
always thought psychedelics in general but psilocybin
just everything dmt was um a fascinating like
a fascinating way to explore the mind scientifically
as well but he's the first person i might be
ignorant made me realize you could actually do
it as part of like like multi -million dollar
funded studies and like explore it like rigorously
i know it sounds weird but like seriously explore
like what does Like, where can you go? He is
big on doing a heroic dose of psilocybin, which
apparently is legal as long as it's part of a
study. And he's been studying it for purpose.
50 years. No, he's a young guy, which is, like,
you know, part of my excitement that this is,
like, this is a legit, this is somebody that
we'll be following for decades to come, I think.
He's just in the early steps of a journey. He's
running huge studies. One of the things that
really excite me about what he's doing is he
went from sort of using psychedelics or psilocybin
or any of the other psychedelic drugs to explore
how you can treat different mental disorders,
diseases, addictions, and so on, to now pushing
it towards how can it help a person who, what
he calls a creative. Somebody like you, a comedian,
or somebody like Elon, like engineers, like me,
engineers, scientists, all that kind of stuff.
How can it help the mind when you're not trying
to treat some kind of explicit disorder but actually
trying to expand your thinking about the world
and actually doing that as a study? That's what
I'm excited about, kind of waiting with just
like bated breath that he runs a study that I
can participate in because I'll be open to in
the wild. Do you have any experiences at all?
psilocybin mushrooms yeah I've taken three four
times and it was I've never had actually a negative
experience with drugs maybe alcohol but that
was it's like it's like saying like you know
it was more positive than negative I've drugs
kids Don't listen to this, but drugs have done
well for me. Do you listen to the podcast I did
recently with Dr. Carl Hart? No. You would really
enjoy it. It was a little tedious in the beginning
because we were talking about politics, and it
was post -Capitol Hill, and it was like, you
know, he was very frustrated. But when we got
into drugs, then he came alive. And we were,
he's, well, his book is right here. What is his?
Drug Use for Grownups. uh chasing liberty in
the land of fear so that's not the sense i started
listening to the podcast that's not the sense
i got from the podcast when i started listening
to it which is awesome because yeah i was i was
hearing the politics and that yeah i should have
steered us away from that quicker but i love
the guy and i just wanted to let him talk and
talk with him and i wanted to get us into drugs
but i didn't want to just jump right into it
because i felt like you know one of the things
about this podcast i feel like sometimes people
come on and they realize that it's this big platform
and they have a lot to say and they they and
when there's a thing that's happened in the news
that was as ridiculous as that i shouldn't say
ridiculous horrific is that capitol hill attack
everybody wants to get it out of their system
so we talked we talked about politics for a little
bit and I felt a little clunky with my descriptions
of things. But then we got into drugs. And once
we got into drugs, then he shines because he
was a guy who bought into all the propaganda.
And, you know, he's a research scientist and
a brilliant guy who wasn't into any drugs at
all until he was in like his, I believe he said
he was in his 30s. Is that correct, Jamie? Somewhere
in there? And then, you know, now he takes drugs
all the time. He's talking about the positive
benefits of heroin. He had a shirt on that was
the chemical compound for crystal meth. Yeah,
that's, it's funny enough, like, so you talk
to Avi Loeb, who's, you know, the Oumuamua, somebody
who's really open to mind about that. But he's
less open -minded about psychedelics and all
those kinds of drugs. It's fascinating. We as
a species, you talk about reaching for branches
or exploring what's interesting. And I think
psychedelics is a legitimate... I haven't actually
tried much at all, but it feels like every time
I've tried mushrooms, it makes you realize that
the mind is capable of so much more than you
were cognizant of. It makes me think that there's
more to reality than we can grasp and that we
need to help. We need something. We need a little
doorway that lets us walk through to some other
side, whether it's psilocybin or dimethyltryptamine
or whatever the method you use. There's a lot
more out there. We're very crude in our perceptions,
our ability to perceive. And I think our ideas
of drugs are negative ideas of drugs. are a lot
of times they're they're flavored with the limitations
of human personality and and human beings interfacing
with the world looking for escape rather than
looking to explore and looking to give in to
the the mother gaia and and give in to these
magical compounds And also, there's a lot of
fucking charlatans, man. There's a lot of people
that espouse the use of psychedelics because
it makes them appear to be spiritual and it boosts
their ego. And I had a conversation, I've had
more than one conversation with people where
they say like, you know, you don't seem like
a psychedelic guy because you use a lot of fucked
up words and you say a lot of shit you probably
shouldn't say. I'm like, well, I'm also a comic.
At the end of the day, my goal is to Look, I'm
also accustomed to being around people that do
what I do. Like, sometimes people get taken aback
by my crude language or the way I think about
things or discuss things, but my culture, my
community is comics. At the end of the day, they're
comics and fighters. Both of those people are
used, both those groups of people in the community
are used to saying some fucked up shit. It's
fun for us. When you're a person who, like, there's
there's people are accustomed to things like
one of my favorite videos has nothing to do with
psychedelics of a fighter it shows you the sense
of humor of a fighter is my friend john wayne
parr after a fight he's got this giant gash in
his head and they're stitching him up and as
they're stitching him up they're opening up his
thing like a mouth and talking like hey john
how was how was today yeah she's got this giant
cut in his head where a lot of people be freaked
out they have this cut and said he's laughing
it's post fight you know There's a sense of humor
that fighters have, and there's a sense of humor
that comedians have, and I'm sure first responders,
firefighters, a lot of soldiers that I'm friends
with, they have a different sense of humor too
because they've seen a lot of wild shit and a
lot of violence. They use... There's a style
of communication that for a lot of people that
just live a more... pedantic a more pedestrian
a more a more placid life they don't they don't
they're uncomfortable by it yeah i actually look
to humor i think humor will save the world i
think that mentioned that's only one of them
that's only one of them the other one was on
the side of his head He had one where they were
stitching him up. It was above his left eyebrow,
and it was giant. John's had more than 100 stitches
in his head. I mean, way more than 100 stitches,
like hundreds of stitches in his face. Yeah,
the people that have been through the worst shit
that I've had a connection with in my life, they
always have a dark sense of humor about them,
and it's a kind of escape. No, it's not an escape.
It's actually... It's a release valve. But not
even. It's almost a way to embrace the dual nature
of life, that it can be really shitty and really
beautiful. Yeah. Because of the ups and downs.
And somehow, I don't know what it is about humor.
There's something about it that... just reveals
that, the rollercoaster of life. The best of
it. Right now, the big one, of course, is the
whole cancel culture and the hypocrisy within
politics. And so comedy, that's why it sucks
that coronavirus is keeping a lot of comedians
locked up. you know comedy is a way to reveal
that ridiculousness and I suppose like podcasts
are doing that they are but you know there's
a lot of comedians that are back on the road
now they're like fuck it I can't do this anymore
and doing like hearing your show with Chappelle
was like that was so refreshing actually I won't
say what it is, but Ron White was on the show.
He said the most, and I was fortunate enough
to sit next to your wife, and he said the most
inappropriate joke. And it was so refreshing
for some reason. It was like a kind of escape.
I know what you mean. We've been taking ourselves
so seriously in this very... in this very kind
of careful discourse in the public sphere that
like comedians provide this kind of like, they
point out the elephant in the room. Yes. Like
this is absurd. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes that
requires going over the top and that's, it made
me, yeah, it made me miss the world as it was.
It'll be back again and the real ones like Ron
White and Dave Chappelle, they'll be raging stronger
than ever because people are going to appreciate
it and they're going to realize, oh my God, this
is the way out. We need to stop. Getting angry
about everything. And we need to start embracing
humor. It's important. There's a broad spectrum
of human thought. And we can't just live in the
fucking range of outrage. That range is a shitty
range. That range that so many people exist in.
And one of the reasons why they exist in that
range, the outrage range, is because they're
doing it online. It's not a real way of communicating.
Because of the fact that everyone's been separated
from just normal, regular interactions with folks.
You know, I remember like I would feel like when
I was when I first moved to L .A., I didn't have
any friends and I would feel real weird. You
know, I would be I had a furnished apartment.
So it wasn't really it didn't ever felt like
mine. It felt like a hotel. So there's this place
called Oakwoods, these Oakwoods apartments in
Burbank. I think it was in Burbank. um but wherever
it was i was staying in these apartments and
it was just it was weird man just felt i felt
weird like what am i doing here and then i would
go to the comedy store and i'd be around people
and i'd be around like -minded misfits and we'd
all be laughing and i would be like almost like
somebody took like a weighted vest off of me
like I'm going to be okay. It's going to be okay.
And then, you know, it felt weird again the next
day. Then I had to go to the comic store again.
We need each other. We need each other, but we
need each other person to person. And there was
no social media back then, which if there was,
I'd probably be just like a lot of these fucking
idiots that are online raging about the world
and looking for acceptance and looking for social
justice brownie points and virtue signaling and
any. any turn, hoping that it gets me some love
and likes. Because that's what people are doing.
They think they're doing it because they're trying
to correct the world, but they really don't understand
that they're contributing to the polarizing aspect
of today's culture and climate. We need to be
around each other. Can I ask you a weird question?
Sure. So I've been a fan of your podcast for
a long time. I listen to, as I listen to most
episodes, Was it the one with Giannis, I think
it was? Giannis Papas. Yeah, by the way. All
right, thank you. He's hilarious. He's awesome.
He's a great Twitter follow, too. Yeah, yeah.
I got to. Cheers. I got to actually go to the
show with him. I was at the table with him. I'm
also a big fan of his podcast. I think it's called...
History Hyenas. History Hyenas, yeah. It's like
the complete opposite of Dan Carlin. It's just
like comedians shooting the shit over. But that
said about World War II and Greek, Crete, people
should like read... The Greeks are bad motherfuckers.
Oh, yeah. Jesus. I was surprised how much they
contributed to just... pushing back. There's
a lot to discuss there, but they helped stall
the Nazis in the fact that it took them much
longer to then, after conquering Crete, they
had to go to Russia, and they succeeded. The
Greeks successfully... stalled the Nazis to where
most of the war was in the winter pushing towards
Stalingrad this fascinating history there I always
love the kind of 300 where you stand back and
like just a few people are able to fight back
the the storm of evil yeah that's always badass
that movie's amazing too it's so fantastical
and ridiculous and over the top but But just
fun. Yeah. But anyway, there's something about
him. It must have been the whiskey. There's a
sadness that I've heard over the past couple
months. From Giannis? No, from you. Really? I
might be wrong on that. I wanted to ask, because
you mentioned about friendships in L .A. and
so on. Are you doing okay? Yeah, I'm fine. I'm
remarkably resilient. Despite the fact that I
fucked up the word remarkably. Grammar could
use some work. Yeah, pronunciation. I feel great.
You feel good. Yeah. Where are you getting that
sadness thing from? I think, so what I heard,
maybe a slight romantic thing. You brought up
your wife and so on. And there was just a longing
for human connection. About her? No, not your
wife. in the way you were talking about things.
I don't know. That stood out to me more than
usual. Usually it was like Joey Diaz shooting
shit for the years, right? It just felt like
you were more, I mean, I guess we all grow and
change. It felt like you were, I don't want to
say softened up, but there's a sadness in there
a little bit. Well, I think sometimes I mourn
for the death of L .A. I really do. And I think
when I'm around comics sometimes, particularly
comics like Yana, so I met at the comedy store.
There is a part of me that gets this part where
I'm like, God damn it. This is gone. It's gone,
man. LA's gone. My friend Brendan Schaub was
just... He drove his bike down to the comic store
the other day. He was texting me. He was like,
dude, this is The Walking Dead. It is so fucked
up down here now. There's nothing open. It's
so strange. It's so weird. It feels so dangerous
and so different than it used to feel. I mean...
Do people feel that way? Also sad to see about
New York. It's just so... Why do you think it
was when I was talking about my wife? Because
you don't usually bring up your wife. I think
it was because he was talking about his or something
like that. I know, but he was hilariously enough.
He was talking about something about him becoming
famous and trying to plan ahead that if he's
going to continue being married, like prenup
style, he wants to make sure that there's...
I mean, he's just laughing. But there's just,
I don't know, there's a melancholic kind of longing
for... Like Louis C .K. has this bit where he's
like... i think he talks about uh like listening
to bruce springsteen and pulling out to the side
of the road and crying or something every once
in a while just like remembering that life is
like both beautiful and tragic there's just that
you don't usually hear from um from you well
um i mean maybe we were drinking and that's part
of it um the reason why i don't bring my wife
up too much she doesn't really like it I talk
about her. I'll say something fucked up. So I
try to hedge my bets with that. In your show,
you brought up your wife. I won't mention the
bits or whatever. All those jokes. She gets upset
at those too. She was laughing. I looked over
at her to make sure it's cool. She's a great
person. She makes me a better person. She really
does. I don't say that lightly. You know, if
I didn't think I didn't like her, I wouldn't
be. Well, see, I say I wouldn't be around, but
I would. And one of the reasons why I would is
because I have kids. And I think there's a there's
a thing that there's like this is my girlfriend.
And then then then there's this is the mother
of my children. And it is a fucking different
animal, man. It's a different animal. You know,
it's like a lot of people said, like, you know,
you never really you thought marriage was stupid.
And then then you decide to get married. Well,
I had children. I had children. Whatever I think
is stupid about marriage, I think the idea of
committing to someone is not stupid. But the
idea of a legal contract with a government agency
about love, it is stupid. There's no love in
the courts. There's no love in these civil unions
and all this nonsense. No, the love is between
two people. And there's something weird about
saying, can I get in on paper? I love you. You
love me. We love each other. Okay, imagine if
you did that to your best friend, like Lex. You
and I are friends. I love you. I think you're
a great guy. Can we get that on paper? Can I
get that on paper? If I pulled out and said,
Lex, you and I have been friends for a few years
now, right? Let's fucking make it official. Let's
make it official, bro. And then if you stop taking
my calls, I want money. Half of what you make.
It's weird because when sex is involved with
human beings, we have these cultural norms. But
these cultural standards about relationships
are based about, there's two things going on.
One, there's like if a woman commits to a man
and she's enhancing his career and she abandons
her own. to try to help him, and then... She
doesn't have a career, and then he gets rid of
her and cashes her out for a new model, and then
she's fucked, and she needs alimony. Or vice
versa, like the Tom Arnold situation, right?
Where Tom Arnold, that's our guy. We've all talked
about that. That's our fucking Michael Jordan
when it comes to male alimony. He married an
incredibly successful woman, Roseanne Barr, and
then when he got divorced from her, he got paid,
and he got rich and famous from that. There's
that, and then there's when there's children
involved. And I think as a guy who grew up without
a father, without my real father, I don't know
my real father. I have a stepfather. I'm very
fortunate that my stepfather was in my life,
and he's a great guy. And my mom has been in
my life my whole life. I'm very fortunate because
there's some people that don't have neither of
those things, right? It means a lot to me to
be there for my kids. It means a lot to me. And
it doesn't mean that I love my wife any less.
But whatever the marriage thing, I was like,
okay. We had a kid. I'll abandon all of my preconceived
notions about the silliness of legal contracts
with the state. It doesn't mean I don't love
anyone any less or it cheapens it at all. But
I think the thing is ridiculous. You stand in
front of each other. I do. I do. You guys have
a wedding song? No. Do you do a dance? Dude,
I barely got through the whole thing. As a comic,
it's so preposterous to me. But it doesn't mean
I don't love any less. It doesn't mean that I
don't appreciate her any less. I appreciate the
fuck out of that lady. No, you do. And that's
one of the inspiring things. It's like, I see
that with, that's one of the reasons I like Elon.
Is allowing yourself to be excited about awesome
things. Just being, I don't know, seeing the
beauty in things. And one of the inspiring things
about you is just saying nice things about your
wife. It's funny, but it's rare. It stood out,
actually. Most people just kind of talk shit
about. But I genuinely have a great time with
her. Yeah, I really do. And we've been together
for a long time. And we've grown together. Like,
who I am now is not who I was when I met her.
I'm a different person. And part of me being
a different person is my relationship with her.
But she doesn't like me talking. She's going
to be mad at this. Yeah. Sorry. Not really mad.
She won't be mad because I'm saying nice things.
But, you know, relationships are odd, man, because
a lot of them go bad. problems with marriage
was growing up seeing marriages that went bad
and seeing traps like when i was like my grandparents
were lovely people But Jesus Christ, did they
fight. They fought in the worst way. It was horrible
to be around, to be a little kid, and my grandmother
screaming at my grandfather. And I remember thinking,
fuck this. I remember being trapped in my grandparents'
home. Like, they're watching me. Like, my mom's
out doing something. She's going to come back,
and they yell at each other. Don't rush me, Joe!
It was Josephine and Joseph, my unoriginal family.
My grandfather's name was Joseph. My grandmother's
name was Josephine. They're fucking yelling at
each other. And I remember being terrified because
I was a little kid and thinking like, God, I
don't ever want to be trapped with some fucking
person where they don't like each other anymore.
Or even if they love each other, they've developed
these patterns of communication that are so negative
and corrosive. They're just screaming at each
other all the time. And when I was a young man,
that's how I thought about relationships. And
also, I had a bunch of bad ones growing up, especially
when I was broke. When you're broke and you're
f***ed, future looks pretty fucking sketchy boy
you you learn a lot and those girls were right
they were right to look at me like skeptically
like this motherfucker he thinks he's funny like
where are you going with this where is this career
going and you know there was like when girls
would cheat on me like if i found out about it
was like there was a relief i was like oh great
i don't have to wait for this to happen like
it already happened like i i knew it was coming
like i this is my my concept of relationships
they were always tortured and struggling and
for what is the percentage of people that get
divorced in this country i keep hearing 50 but
yeah something ridiculous chris rock has the
best bit about that he goes he goes that's the
ones that have the courage to leave this is how
many cowards just stay he's right and he's divorced
by the way chris rock's divorced you know so
but the problem is and also you know he's got
some horrific jokes about how much money he had
to pay in divorce. And, you know, he's like,
my wife made more money in comedy last year than
Dave Chappelle. Which is fucking horrible. Yeah,
Jeff Bezos' wife is doing really good things
with the money that she has, actually. Listen,
Jeff Bezos is so goddamn rich that giving her
$34 billion didn't even put a dent in him. No,
no dent. Elon, number one, though, currently.
Elon Musk is the richest man on earth. Well,
other than the Saudis that don't give up the
numbers. Or Putin. Let's just put the truth on
the table. Putin too, right? A lot of those oil
folks, they have undisclosed incomes. I think
they probably laugh. Oh, good job for you. Number
one. I think it's funny. Oh, you're number one.
Congratulations, my friend. How did you do it?
You know, because money is a weird thing, right?
Because you really only have time. And do you
have enough time to recoup that money that you
gave up? And how much of your life is based on
the lifestyle that that money provides? Like,
what is it about your life that you think that
you need a certain number, right? Look, I have
a friend. I've talked about him before, but I'll
say it one more time because he has one of my
worst stories about marriage. He got divorced.
He's been divorced for 14 years. He's been married
to a new woman for 12 years. He doesn't even
have a baby with the first woman, and he's still
paying her hundreds of thousands of dollars a
year, and it kills him. It kills him. It's crazy.
My joke is, did he fuck her so hard she can never
work again? He was in a relationship with a woman.
It didn't work out. But he has to continue sending
her a giant chunk of his income every year. And
it kills him. Yeah, it can make you cynical about,
like, the... It can affect their future relationships.
It could affect your ability to be, like... It
causes some men to become misogynists. Yeah.
It causes some men to look at women as, like,
parasites. It's not good. It's not healthy. You
know, I don't necessarily think that all divorce
settlements are like that. But I do think that
there is an odd thing when you have an industry
that is based around extracting money from people
that have it. And what that is, is like Phil
Hartman told me once when he was trying to get
divorced from his wife. And he's like, I go,
just give her half. He goes, it's not half. It's
two thirds. He goes, it's a scam. The lawyers
take a third. And I remember thinking like, oh,
shit, I never even thought about that. That's
the scam. The scam is they drag it out. And I've
had multiple friends who've been involved in
divorces where it's dragged out. Yeah, my worry
is the... That's my biggest fear of marriage
is the lawyers on the divorce side. That's why
I wasn't into it for the longest time. You know,
but listen, man, you're going to have... The
bigger commitment is children. You have a life
form. You have a human being. You have the most
precious person in your life. When you have a
baby, man, the weird feelings that you have about
love, like the intensity of the love, it's so
overwhelming. I can look at pictures of my kids
when they're little and I start crying. It's
crazy. The feeling that you have about children
is just a fucking game changer. And it makes
you just think about all of your preconceived
notions about humans. And they all go out the
window. Because I think of all people as babies
now. I used to be an angry person. I used to
think, oh, that guy's a fuckhead. And now I think,
that guy is a baby that just grew up all fucked
up. And now here he is, a 40 -year -old douchebag.
How do they, I hope you don't mind saying, how
did they move to Texas? They love it. They love
it here. L .A. feels like a weird place for...
Yeah, it's healthier for them here. Kids are
more normal here. Kids in L .A., here, being
famous doesn't seem like a viable option. In
L .A., it seemed like the most viable option,
like the most primary option. Oh, you mean like
there's a... There's a community of people that
are focused around the Kardashians and the athletes
and the musicians and the this and the that and
their whole ideas. You know, this obviously sounds
hypocritical. It's coming from someone who happens
to be famous, but I think that it's an empty
pursuit. It's, you know... You can get famous
doing a thing that you love or you can try to
be famous. And they're two very different things.
And I think there's been many times in my life
where I was trying to get famous because it seemed
like it was impossible. Like when I was young
and first getting on television, first doing
comedy, because it just seemed like impossible.
Like how does someone get famous? I could see
other people famous. Like how are they famous?
This is crazy. It seemed nuts. But be careful
what you wish for. You think fame? changed you
like are you able to like be cognizant of ways
in which the fact that this podcast is the biggest
podcast in the world and just all all of that
how that's changing your mind i mean that i think
about that with power that you might not be cognizant
of the way that power is changing you that's
why i find putin fascinating so what Like, do
you look in the mirror and see, like, you're
not the man you used to be in some dimension?
Like, this is a different human because you're
so fucking famous. Believe it or not, I think
about that very little. And I think that's one
of the keys to my success. I think so. I see
that. Legitimately. I don't think... I think
just interacting with you offline in general,
I don't think you're... It doesn't look like
you acknowledge to yourself that you're famous.
You're not living with that truth. You're not
lingering it. You're still pursuing the things
that make you happy. I tend to believe that you
can do the same with power. I tend to believe
a president could do that same kind of thing.
That's what we would hope. Right. You would hope
that some president gets to a position of power,
not because they crave it, but because they have
solutions to problems and they genuinely think
that they can help the world. I'm not saying
that I'm not equating my like I'm not favorably
comparing myself to a president or something
like that. But I I think. I got a slow drip of
fame and that's one of the things that helped
me. You know, I started, I got on television
for the first time in like the early 90s with
doing stand -up comedy. And then it led to a
sitcom. It led to Fear Factor and the UFC and
all these different things. And then ultimately
it accidentally led to the biggest thing that
I ever did, which was this. Is this the biggest
thing you ever did? This podcast? Oh, by far.
Yeah. By magnitudes. For sure. Yeah. Massive.
giant numbers of magnitudes different than anything
I've ever done. Well, for some reason your Bernie
Sanders conversation popped into mind because
that's my favorite part about the inauguration
that happened is Bernie Sanders sitting there
in comfy clothes. With like mittens. And he's
sitting back. I don't know if you know this picture.
Have you seen the memes? There's so many memes
of him. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. The internet is
undefeated. I'm like grandma. There's so many
awesome memes of him doing different things.
But the original. The original. Just the sitting
there and not giving a damn. Well, I think he
gives a damn. I think he's recognizing that it's
never going to happen. You know, he had this
idea that he was going to. sort of uh helped
the working class i really do believe that guy
was legitimate i think he stood for what he really
truly believed i think there's a lot of people
that felt disappointed that there was you know
some votes that he wasn't there for that he could
have helped and some stands that he could have
taken that he didn't and then ultimately that
he kind of like gave in to the uh the powers
that be and the status quo but i think meeting
him and talking to him and I don't know. Maybe
I'm a romantic, but I really do believe that
he had in mind. only good intentions, and I think
he really did want to help working families,
and I really do think that he wanted to. It was
one of the reasons why I supported him. I think
he really did want to alleviate student loan
debt. He really wanted to make universities free.
He really did want to make it so that health
care was accessible to everybody. He really did
want to make it so that a living wage was something
that people can expect if they work a job. And,
you know, the economists be damned. I don't know
if they're right. I don't know who's right when
it comes to that. whether or not $15 an hour
is going to cripple our culture and crush businesses.
I'm too dumb. I really don't know. But he's a
genuine human, and that's a rare quality. It
felt like you could disagree with his policies,
but it feels like we should have a person like
that. It's rare for a politician. You know who's
also genuine? It's Tulsi Gabbard. She's genuine
as fuck, man. She was here yesterday. She was
on the podcast yesterday. She was? Yeah, it's
out today. She's amazing. She's like a genuine,
like a legit human being. That's who she is.
One thing that's on my to -do list is to investigate,
look into, why there's so much hate towards her.
I was confused. So every time I've heard her—
They couldn't control her. We talked about it
on the podcast. The moment she decided to run
for president, it all started coming after her.
They started calling her a Russian asset. Dude,
she's a—she served— She was a congresswoman for
eight years. She served overseas twice. She was
involved in these situations where she's working
for medical units. They're bringing in soldiers,
blown apart. That's why she has that white streak
in her hair. They came from one of her deployments.
Stress? Just stress. Just the freaking out over
these. horrific scenes that she was seeing over
and over again. That's why she has this non -interventionalist
foreign policy ideas that are so important to
her. This stop ending these endless wars, or
stop rather having and participating in these
endless wars. She's a legitimate patriot, man.
Did she talk about running? No, she's doing a
podcast. Like her own? Yeah, it's called This
is Tulsi Gabbard because she felt like she was
so misrepresented. We talked about her being
attacked on The View and how that collapsed on
those people. It's like the merchants of hate
out there trying to spew their vitriol on people.
There's a whole business in that with people.
Podcasting could be the thing that actually saves
us. A lot of really interesting people. Andrew
Yang is doing a podcast. It's a way to express
yourself in a long -form format and being nuanced,
and it feels refreshing. I do think you should
give platform to certain folks who are... Crazy
people? No, not crazy people. There's just some
people who don't have a platform currently. He's
no longer president, but... Trump? Donald Trump,
yeah. You should give him a chance because he's
banned everywhere else. I figured that would
be nice. Boy, that would be a crazy conversation,
dude. I don't know if I'm ready. I don't know
if I'm into that. I feel like he can make his
own YouTube video. He's got his own platforms.
There's a complexity to that human being. Oh,
for sure. When you hear a story, again, coming
from someone who has children. And, you know,
the story that his cousin paints of him or his
niece. Yeah, that's right. Is his niece or his
cousin? Niece. Yeah, it's a story that resonates
with anyone that has had a difficult upbringing
and recognizes the need that children have for
the love of their parents. There's a thing that
happens to children when they're raised incorrectly.
They're raised with the wrong. the wrong input.
Yeah. Mary Trump. You know, I wish I was so mad
at this book. I don't even know if she's right.
I don't know. So the problem with this book is
that she had the opportunity to write a deep
psychological study of Donald Trump. That's apolitical.
And she kept inserting politics into it. She
kept inserting her obviously liberal point of
view as opposed to studying a fascinating, complicated.
human being who's obviously achieved a lot of
things in this world well you know what I bet
that's probably what the editors want and I bet
that's probably what a lot of other people wanted
but I agree with you is that I want to be able
to make up my own political ideas and my own
political decisions I want to know what you know
about this human and how this she might You know,
if Donald Trump might sit down and write a book
about her, let me tell you something about this
bitch. That's a good title for a book. That's
a good title for his book. Let me tell you something
about this bitch. She was always mean and fucking,
she always complained and blamed other people.
And she was always lazy. And she was always mad
at her cousins. Like, who knows? I'm just exaggerating
and making things up. She's probably a wonderful
person. But my point is, we don't know. When
a person just writes something and the other
person doesn't even get to respond, interject,
it's a real problem. You can get a very distorted
perception of who that human being is. Yeah,
and... What's the matter, Jamie? We were talking
about Putin a second ago, about being the richest
man in the world. I've stumbled across a current
story that is very interesting. Do you remember
the... I think he's considered maybe Putin's
rival, the guy that got poisoned a couple years
ago. So he's recently traveled back to Russia.
did you hear about this yeah i did as of two
days ago he uploaded a video onto youtube i'm
gonna show you this just a second it has over
it has 50 million views in two days this is putin's
billion dollar palace yeah yeah it's a two -hour
video where this guy's breaking down what this
is it's a like 1 .4 billion dollar palace that
has all sorts of crazy it sounds crazy and i
there are english subtitles on here i don't obviously
don't have the time to look through this at the
moment I haven't seen a video get that many views
that quick in a long time. Oh, my God. It's 49
million views. Play some of it. I just want to
see the palace. How big is it? It's huge. One
of the guys that was looking into this brings
up that they have a... Oh, it's legitimately
Navalny's video. Yeah, this is his video. There's
other videos that are smaller, but this is the
actual two -hour one. How much time do you think
he's got left on Earth? He went back. The size
of the balls this man has to go back. After they
poison him. They're bringing up this, it's a
stripper room, but they're like, there's this
room in the basement that has no windows and
weirdly a pole. How does he have this information?
They have the plans. They have 3D renderings.
They have drone footage. There's like an enclosed
ice rink. There's a 2 ,500 square foot greenhouse.
Wow. So he might be the richest man in the world.
Comrade. Can we take the video down? According
to him, he owns everything in Russia or something.
He owns everything in Russia. Does he have a
lot of support in Russia? Yeah, still a huge
amount of support. Is it the same kind of support
like Trump has support, like support for the
strongman? Yes, but he is much better. This is
what I mentioned with the charisma of Hitler,
not equating anybody in this conversation. The
Putin is actually two things. He's very charismatic
and like witty, intelligent, thoughtful. So it's
very different style than Donald Trump, who's
more chaotic, comedian, like just off the cuff
kind of way. And the other thing that Putin is.
which a lot of dictators have been throughout
history, he says he's really good at his job,
actually, of being a manager, of being president.
He loves his job. He loves his job more than
he loves power, which is fascinating to watch.
Stalin was similar to that. Is that why he's
effective? That's why he's effective. You can
have critical perspectives on it. You can have
positive perspectives on it. But the truth is,
he's really good at doing the... having the meetings
with the different people that are responsible
for energy, for agriculture, for the way the
country runs, actually listening to them. Obama
was really good at this and listening to the
different experts and understanding what they're
saying, even though he himself is not an expert
in it, asking the right questions, thinking through
it. calling you out on your bullshit if you're
corrupt. He's actually really good at fighting
corruption. A lot of people argue that he's actually,
while he's good at fighting corruption, he's
creating an extra, like another level of corruption
by the way, the kind of cronies he gets into
government. But the fact is, he calls people
out on their bullshit when he gives a lot of
money to different kinds of region. to perform
a certain task, he expects that task to be performed.
Like if a certain kind of infrastructure has
to be built, he calls you out on your bullshit
if you didn't build that set of roads or whatever
the infrastructure is. So he's good at his job.
The stuff that's underneath it, the potential
hypocrisy or the deeply unethical things for
which there's very little proof, but almost like
common sense. Like, Epstein didn't kill himself
level of, like, logic. It bothers a lot of people,
especially in the West. But in Russia, I think
he still has majority support. I'm pretty sure
he has significant support in Russia. Young people
are who love the West, who love the idea of freedom.
They don't like the idea of what Putin is doing,
which is essentially an authoritarian government.
He's essentially a dictator. And if you love
the idea of freedom, even if Putin is good for
Russia, it feels like this is the wrong man to
bring freedom to Russia. And that's ultimately
where the battle is, the battle for freedom.
They look at America, yeah, it's a giant mess
of just division and all that kind of stuff.
But I think what permeates everything that's
going on in America, is a love of freedom. We
have a different definition of what that means,
but ultimately we want to be free to pursue the
thing that we love doing, whatever that is. This
country, the United States of America, allows
people, whatever weird thing they're into, or
amazing thing they're into, to be able to pursue
that. and build if it's like engineering to build
that thing or if it's art to create that thing
and not be stopped by kind of institutional breaks
that slow you down and so like the left defines
that as saying you know if you're a minority
then there's all these institutions that slow
you down in terms of your ability to be free
in expressing your yourself to your fullest potential
and then people on the right are saying well
there's all these like uh how do you put it nicely
but you know government overreach and controlling
Now stifling businesses, stifling conversations,
stifling thought, stifling the truth, you know,
by sort of saying that this is what, by using
terms like white supremacy, by using all these
kinds of terminology, being with stifling freedom
of speech. That's people on the right are saying
that about the left. But ultimately the struggle
is for freedom of speech. And then really effectively
in Putin's Russia. all of those freedoms are
kind of absent, if we're honest. Really effectively.
That's an interesting way to put it. Because
you can make an argument that the main flaw of
our democracy is that every four years we change
leadership. And there's a battle. As soon as
the person takes office to establish who's going
to be... the next person in line four years from
now so oftentimes like this is one of the things
that uh to quote chris rock again he was talking
about obama they were a lot of people were disappointed
with obama's first uh term and he was saying
you got to wait until the second term that's
when he can do some really gangster shit because
he knows he can't go anywhere but isn't that
a strange thing that like if you had any other
job right like imagine if i only had four years
to do this podcast Go back and listen to the
first four years. They're fucking terrible. I
didn't know what I was doing. I wasn't good at
it yet. I needed to figure out how to communicate
with people. And I think I'm better today than
I was yesterday. And I think I'll be better tomorrow
than I am today. And I think you get better if
you care, if you work at it. Is that the same
thing with someone who runs a government? I would
imagine there's some similarities and parallels.
Now, the problem with that is, of course... The
best case scenario is you have a benevolent dictator.
You have a dictator that cares but realizes,
like, you fucking idiots, I need to take care
of you, but I really do love taking care of you,
and I'm going to do it within your best interests,
and I'm going to try to do my very best to run
this country the right way. I don't think anybody
thinks that of any of our presidents. I think
everybody thinks that our presidents are beholden
to special interest groups and lobbyists and
all the people that got them into positions of
power in the first place. Modern day presidents,
I think. And also that when they get out, we
know what they're doing. They're going to go
right to bankers and start doing speeches for
$500 ,000 and all that shit. We know it's a scam,
but we hope they do it the best they can with
the system that's in place as corrupt as it is,
as fucking entangled with money as it is. If
there was someone, like a Putin character, like
an American Putin, who would it be? Some fucking
Clint Eastwood type dude who just like, you know
what I mean? Jocko Willink type of character.
Yeah, Jocko Willink. I'm all for it. Jocko for
president. Well, it's a good question. I mean,
to me, there's an exact parallel between your
trajectory in podcasts, which have been 11 years,
and Putin. But I haven't poisoned anybody. Allegedly.
He hasn't poisoned anybody, allegedly. Allegedly.
What's in this drink? I think the question is
whether, in your case, fame. But there's power
there, too, changes you. And in the case of Putin,
does power change you? I use my power as much
as possible to help other people. But why? Because
I like it. I like helping people. I really do.
I like letting people know about you. I like
letting people know about Tim Dillon. I like
letting people know about funny comedians and
good people and really interesting authors and
guys like Carl Hart. I like people to know about
interesting people. I don't feel comfortable
with the position that I'm in. I don't deserve
it. And if people say I don't deserve it, you're
right. Guess what? Nobody deserves it. I know
I don't deserve it. It's unbalanced. It's disproportionate.
I'm aware of it. I'm 100 % aware of it. So I
do my best to spread the love. That's what I
try to do. Part of being a comedian, you get
made fun of by your friends and there's people
that put you in check. That's the concern with
power in the political spectrum. How many people
can really talk to Putin and say, Bro. Nobody.
You were kind of a dick last night. Well, does
Putin have anyone that's smarter than him that
he's friends with, too, that he recognizes? I
have a gang of people that are way smarter than
me that I can talk to. I can call them up. I
go, hey, man. But the important thing is something
in your genetics keeps saying that they're smarter
than you. You can also convince yourself that
you're smarter than them. No. But it's possible.
Human beings do that. I think it's my martial
arts background, too. I think there's a few things
that contribute to the development of a human
being. Like one of them is just being humbled
by whatever the mechanisms. It seems like martial
arts, jiu -jitsu. Yeah. So uniquely humbling.
Yeah. And daily. This is why, sorry, I'm a little
biased in being open -minded towards Putin because
of his judo background. Judo background. He's
legit. He's legit. I mean, when you watch, look,
I know those guys are going with him. They're
not trying to kill him. But I've watched Putin
train, and I watch his technique. You know, I'm
not a judoka. I have no belt in judo, although
I think Wikipedia says I have a belt in judo.
I have zero belts in judo. I know, like, two
hip throws. But he's unquestionably legit. He's
a real black belt. You know, there's no doubt
about it. I watch him move. He knows what he's
doing. And actually really good at it. There's
people that do Judo can understand. There's a
way when you watch a martial artist move, you
understand this person understands the art. Yeah.
And he is one of those. They have refined technique.
Yeah. They've learned from real masters. And
were humble for long periods. This isn't some
little tool you learn while you're part of the
KGB. He really loved Judo. For some reason, I
might be a sucker and biased in that sense. It
makes me feel like this person is human. You
got a little bit of a Putin crush. You got a
Putin crush on you. Putin crush? No. I'm fascinated
by the man. But I'm also fascinated by Donald
Trump. I'm fascinated by Barack Obama. But I
like the complexity of what makes a human being.
And by the way... I'm a sucker for good speeches.
People who are saying that Joe Biden's speech
in the inauguration, I don't know if you heard
it. I didn't hear it. It's a good speech. I think
Barack Obama the whole time was sitting in the
Bernie Sanders stance saying, like, hold my beer.
That was a terrible speech. There's such an opportunity
to crush it right now. Really? With a beautiful
speech. And it was like very generic positive
unity kind of. If you want to do a unity speech,
you better bring your best Martin Luther King
Jr. You better bring your best Obama. That sucked.
But I'm fascinated by these complicated people
that come to power. Obama is one of them. I think
he's way more fascinating than people give him
credit for. Yeah, I agree. There's no way he's
not. Raised by a single mother in Hawaii, he's
an interesting character. rose to the the highest
ranks of government in a very unusual way you
know he's um he's our best statesman that we've
ever had in my opinion you know i mean people
love kennedy because he died if kennedy lived
who knows what we think of him probably hate
him after the first term he was very hated when
he died you know um yeah he's a special human
but also to be special to be fascinating you
don't have to be Our best. He could be our worst.
Yeah, but he was our best statesman. Yeah. Our
best communicator. I mean, he was the smoothest
and the cleanest. But at the time, Kennedy bucked
the system harder than anybody. I mean, I'm sure
you've heard this speech that Kennedy gave about
secret societies. You know? Yeah. It's a brilliant
speech. It's absolutely brilliant. And that was
before they fucking shot him in the head. They're
like, that's enough of this. Because he was combating
the very thing that ultimately murdered him.
And his whole speech, I mean, his really strong
speeches, which is like... We choose to go to
the moon in this decade and do the other things,
not because they're easy, because they're hard.
And also, ask not what your country can do for
you, ask what you can do for your country. And
he has a more general one about ask not what
America can do for you, ask what you can do for
the world, something like that. Yeah. No, he
was amazing in a lot of ways and didn't, you
know, wasn't around that long. Died in his 40s,
you know. The good ones die young. Can I read
a poem? Fuck yeah. We'll end it with this. Yeah.
We have a tradition. Yeah. Maybe one day when
I bring a robot, you'll actually wear a suit.
You still have that same goofy watch? That thing
is gigantic. It's the same Amazon. Do you like
it? I like it. Are you attached to it? Oh, like
John Wick style, like if you kill my dog, I will
destroy all of you? No. I feel like it's ridiculous
for you. Yeah. It's unnecessary. Do you use it
for anything other than the time? Yeah, that's...
That's what a watch is for, bro. Other than the
time. Yeah. Other than the time. No. Oh, I do
not use it for anything but to check the time.
Why do you need a watch so large? This is the
problem with Americans. They want their heart
rate. They want their sleep schedule. No, that's
not what I'm saying. I don't want... Listen.
What do you want from a watch? Do you want it
to talk dirty to you? Take this. That's yours
now. That's an Omega. And that has a moon phase.
See that moon in the bottom of it? That's yours.
That's yours. You see the moon on the bottom
of it? Do you see that? This is a happy man right
now. That's my watch. That's my favorite watch,
by the way. Do you see the moon in the bottom
of it? Yep. That is the actual moon phase. It's
a real high -resolution photograph of the moon.
And as the moon rises, it will rise. It's set
in the position where the moon is currently.
Oh, that's awesome. Fuck yeah, it's awesome.
Take that piece of shit, stupid fucking Frisbee
you got on your wrist. You can't get this back
because you just did it on record. No, it's yours.
It's yours, man. Joe, thank you so much. This
is a steampunk watch. That fucking stupid thing.
The robot writes it and erases it every minute.
That's so dumb. But that watch, that watch is
my favorite watch, and I want you to have it.
Joe, thank you. My pleasure. See that? Big ass
wrist. Yeah. I do. Well, we can get it sized
for you. No, no, this is perfect. Fuck, man.
But you see the little moon? Thank you so much.
You see it at the bottom? Wait until it comes
full moon. You get a real sense of what it looks
like. It's beautiful. It's a beautiful, high
-resolution image. And one of the reasons why
I like omegas, first of all, the astronauts that
went to the moon, allegedly, they wore omegas.
But also, it doesn't have the same sort of cachet
value as Rolexes or a lot of like the people
that have a peripheral understanding of watches.
But they're fucking phenomenal watches. They
make amazing watches. I have a bunch of Omegas.
I love them. But that is my favorite watch, and
you have my favorite watch now. Joe. Thank you.
Actually, this is the one thing I think a watch
could add is perspective. on our like the cosmic
scale that's why i like that watch and that's
why i think you should have it because i would
look that watch and i would say this is where
we are right now with the moon cycle yeah and
when it comes full moon like right now it's just
kind of like a little it's probably a quarter
moon or something like yeah yeah well when it
comes full noon you'll get a real sense of what
it actually looks like because it's beautiful
it's a beautiful high resolution image of the
moon with like little stars behind it See how
much shit Connor got for his watch this week?
Yeah, but that's a ridiculous watch. I don't
like those watches. I mean, look, you could like
whatever you like. Yeah, that's a million dollars,
his watch. That's preposterous. It's all filled
with diamonds and shit. I don't own a single
diamond. I've never had a diamond in my life,
and I want a fucking diamond. I like engineering.
That's what I like. I'm a fan of engineering.
And what I like about that watch is the engineering
behind it. It's a mechanical watch, meaning the
time is kept within a second or two. I don't
know what it is, like a day? I forget what it
is, but also with a complication. There's this
crazy complication that shows the moon rising
across. And when it goes dark, I know when I
can go outside and see the stars because I look
at my watch. And when my watch shows me no moon,
that's when I go outside on my deck. Because
when I go outside on my deck, I know I'm just
going to see nothing but stars and no moon at
all. No light pollution, just beautiful stars
in the sky. I'm going to take care of... Take
care of it, my brother. Take care of it. Read
your poem. This one, maybe it doesn't make sense
for a white guy from Russia to read, but the
reason I love this... You're a different kind
of white guy. White people from Russia are a
different kind of white people. I've been saying
that about fighters for a long time. Russian
fighters, that's a different kind of white people.
But when I came to this country, what I fell
in love with is the freedom. That a silly fucking
guy like me can do anything. I want with my life.
And so this one is from Maya Angelou called Caged
Bird. She has really good, one of the literary
geniuses that America's ever produced. But she
mostly talks about the freedom in the context
of racism. But this is bigger than that. This
is about freedom in general, freedom of the human
spirit. It's called Caged Bird by Maya Angelou.
The free bird leaps. on the back of the wind
and floats down stream to the current ends and
dips his wings in the orange sun rays and dares
to claim the sky but a bird that stalks down
his narrow cage can seldom see through his bars
of rage his wings are clipped and his feet are
tied so he opens his throat to sing the caged
bird sings with a fearful trill of the things
unknown but longed for still and his tune is
heard on the distant hill for the caged bird
sings of freedom the free the free birth things
of another breeze and trade wings soft through
the sighing trees and the fat worms waiting on
a dawn bright lawn and he names the sky his own
but a caged bird stands on the graves of dreams
His shadow shouts on a nightmare scream. His
wings are clipped and his feet are tied. So he
opens his throat to sing. The caged bird sings
with a fearful trill of things unknown but long
for still. And his tune is heard on a distant
hill for the caged bird sings of freedom. That's
beautiful. She's an incredible person and this
is an incredible country. I love America. Lex
Friedman, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you, brother.
God bless you all. Bye -bye. My pleasure. Thank
you for being here. Goodbye, everybody.