WEBVTT

00:00:01.649 --> 00:00:04.710
Welcome to this curated educational transcript of the Joe Rogan Experience. In this session, we provide a deep-dive examination of the critical perspectives and historical dialogues presented in Episode #1735. Our mission is to offer a high-fidelity, searchable research resource for students of cultural history, emerging technology, and global discourse. This transcript has been specifically optimized for academic reference, linguistic study, and archival preservation regarding Longevity Science, Metabolic Health, and Chronic Disease Prevention Protocols. Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan

00:00:04.710 --> 00:00:08.150
Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by

00:00:08.150 --> 00:00:14.109
night, all day. Hello, Peter. Hello, Joe. Good

00:00:14.109 --> 00:00:18.309
to see you. Likewise. We're fucking neighbors,

00:00:18.489 --> 00:00:22.010
man. How you liking the move? Loving it. You've

00:00:22.010 --> 00:00:23.789
been here a year now, right? A solid year? A

00:00:23.789 --> 00:00:27.089
little over, yeah. Loving it? I don't know what

00:00:27.089 --> 00:00:29.530
took so long. Yeah, it's a different world, right?

00:00:29.870 --> 00:00:31.629
Yeah. When you live in a place that only has

00:00:31.629 --> 00:00:34.990
a million people, it's like, oh, like, wow, this

00:00:34.990 --> 00:00:38.189
is you could do everything here. If I'd done

00:00:38.189 --> 00:00:39.890
this three years earlier, I could have paid half

00:00:39.890 --> 00:00:44.109
as much for my house, too. That's right. So smart

00:00:44.109 --> 00:00:46.829
to have done this in 2017. Well, lucky did it

00:00:46.829 --> 00:00:49.329
then and not now because now it's even harder.

00:00:49.469 --> 00:00:51.810
It's harder to find a house. It's almost impossible.

00:00:52.670 --> 00:00:55.969
Yeah. I mean, every person we introduce to our

00:00:55.969 --> 00:00:57.710
real estate agent says the same thing, which

00:00:57.710 --> 00:01:00.390
is like you have to build. yeah yeah it's that

00:01:00.390 --> 00:01:04.269
is that wild which is uh i guess good i don't

00:01:04.269 --> 00:01:07.170
know you know it's uh it's tricky because you

00:01:07.170 --> 00:01:09.849
know google's building their they have this gigantic

00:01:09.849 --> 00:01:13.049
sail looking building near the river have you

00:01:13.049 --> 00:01:15.829
seen it oh yeah yeah so there's gonna be a bunch

00:01:15.829 --> 00:01:18.189
of wokesters running around from that place they

00:01:18.189 --> 00:01:20.569
have to fill that building up you know and then

00:01:20.569 --> 00:01:23.790
you know you get is there a more woke corporation

00:01:23.790 --> 00:01:26.689
than google yes Which one? Microsoft. Really?

00:01:26.969 --> 00:01:29.250
Oh, I did see that. Did you hear that thing Ben

00:01:29.250 --> 00:01:32.590
Shapiro did? No. Oh, my God. I didn't hear it.

00:01:32.650 --> 00:01:35.829
What did he do? It's so funny that I went and

00:01:35.829 --> 00:01:37.609
listened to it again, recorded it on my phone

00:01:37.609 --> 00:01:39.290
off my computer just so I could text it to my

00:01:39.290 --> 00:01:44.250
friends. So they had this thing where... I saw

00:01:44.250 --> 00:01:46.489
the thing. Where they introduced, everyone introduced

00:01:46.489 --> 00:01:48.269
themselves. With their pronouns and they described

00:01:48.269 --> 00:01:50.049
themselves. You're right. So I would say, hi,

00:01:50.209 --> 00:01:52.390
my name is Peter Attia. I'm a light -skinned

00:01:52.390 --> 00:01:54.469
guy with a shaved head wearing a green shirt.

00:01:54.609 --> 00:01:57.409
I go by he, him. Yeah. And you would say Caucasian

00:01:57.409 --> 00:01:58.890
probably. Yes, yes, I would. I would, right.

00:01:59.469 --> 00:02:04.790
But then one of the women said, before we begin,

00:02:04.829 --> 00:02:08.090
I would just like to state that. Our land. The

00:02:08.090 --> 00:02:10.310
land that this building sits on was actually

00:02:10.310 --> 00:02:14.789
once owned by her. And she rattled off 17 tribes.

00:02:14.969 --> 00:02:17.590
Yes. At which point, like, my brother was like,

00:02:17.810 --> 00:02:20.069
well, just show me the title deed. Like, is it

00:02:20.069 --> 00:02:22.610
yours or is it theirs? Because if it's theirs,

00:02:22.710 --> 00:02:24.669
you really should give it back. What is happening?

00:02:25.430 --> 00:02:29.030
What's going on? But Microsoft, which is interesting,

00:02:29.270 --> 00:02:32.569
they were never like this. Like, all of a sudden,

00:02:32.590 --> 00:02:35.969
they went full tilt. They just went from zero.

00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:39.460
To 11. Right? They don't have a history of, like,

00:02:39.500 --> 00:02:44.180
ads that were woke. I don't know. It has provided.

00:02:44.180 --> 00:02:46.360
Give me some volume on this because it's so stupid.

00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:50.759
And lots in store for you. First, we want to

00:02:50.759 --> 00:02:52.919
acknowledge that the land where the Microsoft

00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:55.979
campus is situated was traditionally occupied

00:02:55.979 --> 00:03:00.259
by the Sammamish, the Duwamish, the Snoqualmie,

00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:04.400
the Suquamish, the Muckleshoot, the Snohomish,

00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:08.620
the Tulalip. and other Coast Salish peoples since

00:03:08.620 --> 00:03:12.259
time immemorial. A people that are still here,

00:03:12.400 --> 00:03:15.500
continuing to honor and bring to light their

00:03:15.500 --> 00:03:19.259
ancient heritage. My name is Allison Wine. Hey,

00:03:19.259 --> 00:03:20.699
give back their land. I'm a Senior Program Manager

00:03:20.699 --> 00:03:23.360
in our Developer Tools Division. I'm an Asian

00:03:23.360 --> 00:03:26.159
and white female with dark brown hair wearing

00:03:26.159 --> 00:03:29.240
a red sleeveless top. I'm watching this. And

00:03:29.240 --> 00:03:30.659
I'm Seth Juarez, Program Manager in the AI Platform

00:03:30.659 --> 00:03:33.520
Group. I'm a tall Hispanic male wearing a blue

00:03:33.520 --> 00:03:35.789
shirt, khaki pants. Today we kick off two days

00:03:35.789 --> 00:03:37.310
of learning more about the latest solutions,

00:03:37.509 --> 00:03:39.810
exploring how these key innovations can empower

00:03:39.810 --> 00:03:42.370
you to do great things, and connecting with peers

00:03:42.370 --> 00:03:43.229
around the world. They didn't tell their pronouns.

00:03:43.430 --> 00:03:45.349
The other folks told their pronouns. Was that

00:03:45.349 --> 00:03:48.189
for hearing impaired people? No, it's for visually

00:03:48.189 --> 00:03:50.669
impaired people. Which is the greatest irony,

00:03:50.849 --> 00:03:53.710
right? It's like, we want the people who can't

00:03:53.710 --> 00:03:56.770
see our color to know our color. Ooh, right.

00:03:57.930 --> 00:04:00.750
literally is the most logically inconsistent

00:04:00.750 --> 00:04:03.349
thing you could ever have with what you think

00:04:03.349 --> 00:04:05.389
are the right values. That's interesting. How

00:04:05.389 --> 00:04:07.590
much racism is there amongst visually impaired

00:04:07.590 --> 00:04:10.729
people? Well, apparently there'll be more now

00:04:10.729 --> 00:04:13.389
because we get... But I mean, if you really stop

00:04:13.389 --> 00:04:16.069
and think about it, they can't make that distinction.

00:04:16.149 --> 00:04:18.610
They can only judge people based on how the people

00:04:18.610 --> 00:04:21.350
communicate with them. They can't look at someone

00:04:21.350 --> 00:04:24.250
and prejudge. They're probably the least racist

00:04:24.250 --> 00:04:26.519
people alive. Well, we're going to fix that.

00:04:28.939 --> 00:04:31.680
But all the fucking shit about the thing that's

00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:34.259
ironic is she's describing all the different

00:04:34.259 --> 00:04:37.000
tribes that have owned the land. Well, why do

00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:39.579
you think there's so many? It's because they

00:04:39.579 --> 00:04:41.600
killed each other and stole the land from each

00:04:41.600 --> 00:04:45.379
other. Like, what the fuck are you saying? Michael

00:04:45.379 --> 00:04:47.879
Knowles had this conversation I watched on YouTube

00:04:47.879 --> 00:04:51.199
where this professor, this woke professor, was

00:04:51.199 --> 00:04:55.399
trying to say that we should give back land to

00:04:55.399 --> 00:04:58.660
native tribes. And he was like, okay, but which

00:04:58.660 --> 00:05:01.889
ones? You got to decide which ones because like

00:05:01.889 --> 00:05:04.769
the Comanche took it from the Apache, took it

00:05:04.769 --> 00:05:06.509
from the, and he was like going through the history

00:05:06.509 --> 00:05:08.990
of it. It's like, how do you decide? Like, do

00:05:08.990 --> 00:05:11.209
you go back? Well, the Comanche took it from

00:05:11.209 --> 00:05:14.310
you, but you took it from the Navajo, but the

00:05:14.310 --> 00:05:19.250
Navajo took it from the Pawnee. I'm going to

00:05:19.250 --> 00:05:21.930
ask her because she'll know. It's so exhausting.

00:05:22.009 --> 00:05:26.930
What is happening to us? This wokeness. You know,

00:05:26.949 --> 00:05:28.870
it's easy to say the pendulum is going to swing

00:05:28.870 --> 00:05:31.810
the other way and it probably will. But my brother

00:05:31.810 --> 00:05:33.329
actually said this and I think he's accurate.

00:05:33.670 --> 00:05:36.389
It's not a pendulum. It's a wrecking ball. A

00:05:36.389 --> 00:05:38.870
pendulum implies just this benign little thing

00:05:38.870 --> 00:05:40.949
that's going to go back. But it's not. It's going

00:05:40.949 --> 00:05:44.069
to go. Right. And it's going to kill a bunch

00:05:44.069 --> 00:05:46.089
of people and ruin a bunch of lives and careers

00:05:46.089 --> 00:05:48.970
on the way back to some reasonable equilibrium.

00:05:49.250 --> 00:05:52.050
I think the only reasonable equilibrium is mind

00:05:52.050 --> 00:05:55.660
reading software. I really do. I think the reasonable

00:05:55.660 --> 00:05:57.439
equilibrium is going to be something that allows

00:05:57.439 --> 00:05:59.240
us to read each other's minds so that there's

00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:02.240
no confusion whatsoever about what your intent

00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:06.319
is. Although, did you hear the person – I forwarded

00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:08.300
this article. So I have a group text with a bunch

00:06:08.300 --> 00:06:10.420
of friends and my brother where we just – this

00:06:10.420 --> 00:06:14.040
is our only outlet for this insanity. And someone

00:06:14.040 --> 00:06:17.319
wrote – actually, Jon Stewart defended Dave Chappelle

00:06:17.319 --> 00:06:19.620
after the special and said, look, his intent

00:06:19.620 --> 00:06:23.480
was X, right? And this – I don't remember who

00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:25.980
it was. I don't remember what was in The Independent

00:06:25.980 --> 00:06:27.300
or something like that. Wrote this whole thing

00:06:27.300 --> 00:06:30.620
saying intent is bullshit. Intent means nothing.

00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:34.319
And it was so ridiculous because the argument

00:06:34.319 --> 00:06:38.899
she gave was homicide. She's like, even if you

00:06:38.899 --> 00:06:41.579
don't mean to kill somebody, it's still manslaughter.

00:06:42.300 --> 00:06:45.589
To which we're all at the same time like. Yeah,

00:06:45.610 --> 00:06:47.550
and there's a difference between first degree,

00:06:47.790 --> 00:06:51.889
second degree, involuntary. Like, of course intent

00:06:51.889 --> 00:06:54.709
matters. Of course it matters. But the point

00:06:54.709 --> 00:06:56.550
is there are people now arguing intent is irrelevant.

00:06:56.949 --> 00:06:58.730
That's the dumbest thing ever because, like,

00:06:58.730 --> 00:07:01.670
what if someone... If you can be charged with

00:07:01.670 --> 00:07:04.389
manslaughter, if you get in an argument with

00:07:04.389 --> 00:07:07.209
someone, like say if you are in a situation with

00:07:07.209 --> 00:07:10.449
someone and they bump into your car and you yell

00:07:10.449 --> 00:07:12.250
at them and they get in your face and take a

00:07:12.250 --> 00:07:14.189
swing at you and you knock them out and they

00:07:14.189 --> 00:07:16.889
fall and hit their head and die, you can get

00:07:16.889 --> 00:07:18.990
charged with manslaughter for that. That is so

00:07:18.990 --> 00:07:20.730
much different than breaking into someone's house

00:07:20.730 --> 00:07:22.569
and shooting them in the face. Right. It's so

00:07:22.569 --> 00:07:25.410
much different. Like plotting out. So the intent.

00:07:26.139 --> 00:07:28.839
is everything. Absolutely. And the idea of communication

00:07:28.839 --> 00:07:32.300
is always, it's always, I want to express my

00:07:32.300 --> 00:07:33.680
thoughts to you so you can better understand

00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:36.620
what I'm thinking and we can figure out what's

00:07:36.620 --> 00:07:38.680
right and what's wrong. We can hash things out.

00:07:38.740 --> 00:07:41.019
We can work on a plan. If you don't know what

00:07:41.019 --> 00:07:43.360
the fuck a person really means and you're only

00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:45.759
going by words, like what are we, are we code

00:07:45.759 --> 00:07:49.180
now? Like intent doesn't matter. Emotions don't

00:07:49.180 --> 00:07:50.939
matter. Thoughts don't matter. Of course it matters.

00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:52.660
It's like the only thing that makes us human.

00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:57.060
Yeah. It's so dumb, but it's people taking advantage.

00:07:57.740 --> 00:07:59.800
of what the internet provides, which is this

00:07:59.800 --> 00:08:02.600
ability to communicate and express outrage and

00:08:02.600 --> 00:08:05.660
push buttons, right? So because we have this

00:08:05.660 --> 00:08:08.319
new ability to do this, there's a lot of bad

00:08:08.319 --> 00:08:11.680
actors that use that, that use that ability to

00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:13.439
communicate to find things to complain about

00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:15.639
that are really not relevant. They're not really

00:08:15.639 --> 00:08:17.540
something you should be complaining about. And

00:08:17.540 --> 00:08:19.519
if you do complain about it, it's really because

00:08:19.519 --> 00:08:21.699
you don't have any legitimate problems in your

00:08:21.699 --> 00:08:23.519
real life. Well, I think the other thing is there's

00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:25.639
an insecurity. Actually, there's an opinion piece

00:08:25.639 --> 00:08:27.610
in it. wall street journal today about this,

00:08:27.629 --> 00:08:30.189
right? Which is, uh, what was the, the title

00:08:30.189 --> 00:08:31.629
of the article was something along the lines

00:08:31.629 --> 00:08:35.490
of why the woke can't take a joke. And what it

00:08:35.490 --> 00:08:38.389
basically came down to was the, and this was

00:08:38.389 --> 00:08:40.490
quoting guys from like a hundred years ago, making

00:08:40.490 --> 00:08:42.409
the same thing when it came to jokes about religion.

00:08:42.529 --> 00:08:45.850
And the idea was if you aren't comfortable in

00:08:45.850 --> 00:08:48.309
your position, you're going to be easily offended

00:08:48.309 --> 00:08:50.250
when somebody rattles you, when somebody pokes

00:08:50.250 --> 00:08:51.750
fun at you. And if you're comfortable, like if

00:08:51.750 --> 00:08:55.019
I, if I came here and said, Oh, hunters are wankers,

00:08:55.080 --> 00:08:57.039
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like it wouldn't

00:08:57.039 --> 00:09:00.059
offend you because you're very comfortable in

00:09:00.059 --> 00:09:02.720
your position in your beliefs. And it's like,

00:09:02.759 --> 00:09:03.940
hey, if you don't like hunting, that's cool.

00:09:04.019 --> 00:09:05.440
But that says nothing about me. Well, it definitely

00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:07.580
wouldn't coming from you because you're a hunter.

00:09:08.059 --> 00:09:09.940
You know what I'm saying? Like if you came to

00:09:09.940 --> 00:09:11.539
me and said bow hunting is bullshit, I'd be like,

00:09:11.580 --> 00:09:14.960
ha, ha. But if anybody said it to you, it wouldn't

00:09:14.960 --> 00:09:16.740
faze you. Well, it wouldn't, but it would be

00:09:16.740 --> 00:09:20.559
a conversation where I would probably, if I respected

00:09:20.559 --> 00:09:23.049
that person, I would want to. either defend it

00:09:23.049 --> 00:09:25.590
or explain my position. But you wouldn't be offended

00:09:25.590 --> 00:09:28.230
is the point. You could engage with them as opposed

00:09:28.230 --> 00:09:31.669
to throwing up a flag. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's

00:09:31.669 --> 00:09:34.509
a weird thing that we're doing right now with

00:09:34.509 --> 00:09:38.279
words. This is a strange time where we're trying

00:09:38.279 --> 00:09:40.659
to ban words, and we're trying to change the

00:09:40.659 --> 00:09:43.399
meaning of words and eliminate nuance in conversations.

00:09:43.940 --> 00:09:46.980
And again, we're doing it because of social justice,

00:09:47.320 --> 00:09:51.679
right? And the people that use social media to

00:09:51.679 --> 00:09:53.980
try to enact social justice, which really doesn't

00:09:53.980 --> 00:09:57.159
change. It's not really getting anybody justice.

00:09:57.700 --> 00:10:00.799
It's just getting the rocks off of these people

00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:02.840
that enjoy complaining, and most of them really

00:10:02.840 --> 00:10:05.080
should be doing something else. Most of the people

00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:07.299
on Twitter should be doing something else. I

00:10:07.299 --> 00:10:11.659
have radically reduced my amount of time on Twitter.

00:10:11.779 --> 00:10:14.759
But every now and then, I open it up, and it's

00:10:14.759 --> 00:10:19.379
like watching a fucking room that's five by five

00:10:19.379 --> 00:10:22.440
filled with 400 chickens. And they're just squawking

00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:24.039
at each other and pecking each other. It's like,

00:10:24.100 --> 00:10:27.750
Jesus, this is horrible. It's so bad for your

00:10:27.750 --> 00:10:30.370
mental health. It's just people arguing and dunking

00:10:30.370 --> 00:10:32.549
on each other all day long. Even outside of that.

00:10:32.789 --> 00:10:35.549
My roommate from med school, who's a urologist,

00:10:35.610 --> 00:10:37.649
called me yesterday because he couldn't wait

00:10:37.649 --> 00:10:40.549
to tell me this ridiculous story. So a colleague

00:10:40.549 --> 00:10:42.970
of his, this female urologist who's a badass

00:10:42.970 --> 00:10:45.870
surgeon, was giving a lecture to the medical

00:10:45.870 --> 00:10:47.950
school, which is common, right? You'll always

00:10:47.950 --> 00:10:49.809
have the surgeon will come in or the doctor will

00:10:49.809 --> 00:10:53.169
come in. And before she got up to give her lecture,

00:10:53.389 --> 00:10:56.330
the dean said to her, I'm not making. this up.

00:10:56.409 --> 00:10:59.090
This is a urologist giving a lecture to a group

00:10:59.090 --> 00:11:03.610
of medical students, said, I would appreciate

00:11:03.610 --> 00:11:06.789
it if you would not use the word penis during

00:11:06.789 --> 00:11:09.950
this lecture. He said it before the lecture?

00:11:10.009 --> 00:11:14.730
Yeah. She said, it's an anatomic term. I'm a

00:11:14.730 --> 00:11:18.470
urologist. What would you like me to say? And

00:11:18.470 --> 00:11:23.679
he came up with some idiotic... Oh, he said,

00:11:23.759 --> 00:11:27.179
maybe you could call it male erectile tissue.

00:11:28.340 --> 00:11:30.899
And she was like, well, she's now fucking with

00:11:30.899 --> 00:11:34.460
him. She's like, but what if it's flaccid? Wouldn't

00:11:34.460 --> 00:11:36.960
the use of male also be kind of triggering in

00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:39.820
that sense? I mean, good point. Yeah. I mean,

00:11:39.820 --> 00:11:42.360
and she basically told him to piss off. And what

00:11:42.360 --> 00:11:44.279
did this, this guy was the dean? The dean of

00:11:44.279 --> 00:11:48.700
the medical school. And I assume he's a doctor

00:11:48.700 --> 00:11:51.080
as well? He should be. Yeah, yeah. If he's the

00:11:51.080 --> 00:11:52.340
dean of a medical school, he would be an MD.

00:11:52.460 --> 00:11:55.519
What in the fuck is wrong with people? I don't

00:11:55.519 --> 00:11:58.679
know. One of my favorite videos is there's a

00:11:58.679 --> 00:12:02.659
communist meeting, a meeting of these student

00:12:02.659 --> 00:12:07.830
communists, and they're... They're like criticizing

00:12:07.830 --> 00:12:11.090
each other for various things. And one of them

00:12:11.090 --> 00:12:13.590
gets up and tells everybody that please keep

00:12:13.590 --> 00:12:16.210
the chatter to a minimum and be respectful for

00:12:16.210 --> 00:12:19.090
people that are easily distracted. And then another

00:12:19.090 --> 00:12:23.110
one gets up and they yell out to stop using gendered

00:12:23.110 --> 00:12:26.470
language because he said, guys, can you guys

00:12:26.470 --> 00:12:29.210
please do this? And so he gets up and says, can

00:12:29.210 --> 00:12:30.970
you stop using gendered language? And it's just

00:12:30.970 --> 00:12:34.409
like, you guys are like LARPers. It's like live

00:12:34.409 --> 00:12:36.570
action role play. You're playing like you're

00:12:36.570 --> 00:12:38.450
in a different dimension. Want to hear it? It's

00:12:38.450 --> 00:12:42.009
hilarious. And to win socialism. Thank you so

00:12:42.009 --> 00:12:44.809
much. Quick point of privilege. Quick point of

00:12:44.809 --> 00:12:47.730
personal privilege. Guys, first of all, James

00:12:47.730 --> 00:12:50.809
Jackson, Sacramento, he, him. I just want to

00:12:50.809 --> 00:12:52.509
say, can we please keep the chatter to a minimum?

00:12:52.629 --> 00:12:54.549
I'm one of the people who's very, very prone

00:12:54.549 --> 00:12:56.950
to sensory overload. There's a lot of whispering

00:12:56.950 --> 00:12:58.750
and chatter going on. It's making it very difficult

00:12:58.750 --> 00:13:01.009
for me to focus. Please, can we just, I know

00:13:01.009 --> 00:13:03.169
we're all fresh and ready to go, but can we please

00:13:03.169 --> 00:13:04.950
just keep the chatter to a minimum? It's affecting

00:13:04.950 --> 00:13:07.139
my ability to focus. Thank you. Thank you, comrade.

00:13:07.399 --> 00:13:10.480
Okay, is there a speaker against name, chapter,

00:13:10.559 --> 00:13:14.200
pronoun? Point of personal privilege. Yes. Please

00:13:14.200 --> 00:13:18.139
do not use gendered language to address everyone.

00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:28.039
And she calls everyone comrades, too. It is adorable.

00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:31.759
These fucking kids are doomed. They're doomed.

00:13:31.940 --> 00:13:33.299
They're all going to have to join the military.

00:13:33.759 --> 00:13:37.649
There's no way to save them. Oh my God. It's

00:13:37.649 --> 00:13:40.169
just so weird. It's like it happened so quick.

00:13:40.929 --> 00:13:43.950
Yeah, that's the thing. I keep saying to myself,

00:13:44.070 --> 00:13:45.929
where was the inflection point and how did I

00:13:45.929 --> 00:13:49.929
miss it? Well, I didn't totally miss it because

00:13:49.929 --> 00:13:52.049
I had a lot of people on that were, you know,

00:13:52.070 --> 00:13:55.269
six years ago, seven years ago, giving me warnings

00:13:55.269 --> 00:13:57.049
of like what's going on in the universities.

00:13:57.250 --> 00:14:00.289
But I didn't think the spillover would be so

00:14:00.289 --> 00:14:05.090
broad. that it would really make its way into

00:14:05.090 --> 00:14:08.610
corporations. I thought there would be a barrier.

00:14:08.889 --> 00:14:11.169
Yeah, because it would be a containment. Particularly

00:14:11.169 --> 00:14:12.690
with corporations, because I thought they weren't

00:14:12.690 --> 00:14:13.850
going to tolerate that shit because it's going

00:14:13.850 --> 00:14:16.470
to affect their bottom line. But then they realized

00:14:16.470 --> 00:14:19.909
that you can sort of do what Microsoft is doing,

00:14:20.110 --> 00:14:25.059
placate. And play to the woke. And then it will

00:14:25.059 --> 00:14:28.639
somehow or another help you financially. But

00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:30.960
I don't think it does. You know, Apple's looking

00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:33.480
pretty good after that fucking commercial. Which

00:14:33.480 --> 00:14:36.159
one? I didn't. The Microsoft one. Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:14:36.299 --> 00:14:38.960
The Squamish and the Chumash. Well, hey, just

00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:40.580
wait. I'm sure they'll come up with their own

00:14:40.580 --> 00:14:41.980
version. I don't think they will. I don't think

00:14:41.980 --> 00:14:44.309
they'll go that far. I mean, they're pretty woke,

00:14:44.529 --> 00:14:47.389
but they seem a little bit more reasonable. The

00:14:47.389 --> 00:14:49.409
craziest thing is that all of this is coming

00:14:49.409 --> 00:14:51.870
through devices that are made by slave labor.

00:14:52.090 --> 00:14:56.629
At the end of the day, it's so hypocritical that

00:14:56.629 --> 00:14:58.909
all these people tweeting about social justice

00:14:58.909 --> 00:15:02.029
and all the wrongs of the world, you're doing

00:15:02.029 --> 00:15:05.090
it on a fucking device that's made by child slaves.

00:15:08.049 --> 00:15:11.289
Sorry. You want to buy an iPhone? You got to

00:15:11.289 --> 00:15:13.610
get something that's essentially made by people

00:15:13.610 --> 00:15:16.009
that are getting slave wages. They're working

00:15:16.009 --> 00:15:18.629
16 hours a day in a building that has nets around

00:15:18.629 --> 00:15:21.110
it to keep suicide people from jumping off the

00:15:21.110 --> 00:15:24.129
roof. That's Foxconn. That's where they make

00:15:24.129 --> 00:15:25.649
them. They don't make them here. They're not

00:15:25.649 --> 00:15:28.169
making them in Ohio with folks that are in a

00:15:28.169 --> 00:15:31.090
union that get paid great wages and benefits

00:15:31.090 --> 00:15:33.210
and can take care of their families. Uh -uh.

00:15:33.610 --> 00:15:36.559
No. No, we want to try to keep the bottom line

00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:38.980
nice and low. So in order for you to tweet about

00:15:38.980 --> 00:15:41.279
social justice, you have to do it on a device

00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:44.320
that's made by people that are not much better

00:15:44.320 --> 00:15:49.419
than slaves. Not more well off. They're really

00:15:49.419 --> 00:15:52.720
not. It's fucked. It's crazy that there's no

00:15:52.720 --> 00:15:55.639
outrage to that. Well, the outrage is silent.

00:15:55.700 --> 00:15:57.519
That's the problem. I mean, we're all, you know.

00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:00.460
I guess I should be more vocal about it. You

00:16:00.460 --> 00:16:01.600
should be more vocal about it. Everybody should

00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:03.759
be more vocal about it. Because there's no way

00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:05.679
the majority of people are looking at this and

00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:07.980
thinking it's reasonable. No, they're not. But

00:16:07.980 --> 00:16:10.519
we're not doing enough about it. We're not doing

00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:15.220
anything about it. Yeah. No one has made a push

00:16:15.220 --> 00:16:17.559
to make a phone in America, unless there's something

00:16:17.559 --> 00:16:19.899
I don't know about. Is there a phone made in

00:16:19.899 --> 00:16:23.340
America? Let's see if there is a phone made in

00:16:23.340 --> 00:16:26.190
America. I bet there is not one. I'm willing

00:16:26.190 --> 00:16:28.210
to bet there's not one. And if it is, it's a

00:16:28.210 --> 00:16:30.730
piece of shit. I heard Elon's thinking of making

00:16:30.730 --> 00:16:34.590
a phone. There's some talk of a Tesla phone.

00:16:34.990 --> 00:16:38.230
If that happens, he might be like the only one.

00:16:38.269 --> 00:16:40.870
If Tesla does that, they might be the only ones

00:16:40.870 --> 00:16:45.009
that could sway people from iPhones. Yeah, I

00:16:45.009 --> 00:16:47.850
think you're right. Right? If anybody can, because

00:16:47.850 --> 00:16:50.509
it's hard. Like Samsung has some amazing phones.

00:16:50.730 --> 00:16:53.240
The cameras are incredible, but... People look

00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:55.600
at that green text coming in, they're not doing

00:16:55.600 --> 00:17:00.799
it. But if someone like Elon convinced people

00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:03.960
to switch over to Signal, which is probably better

00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:06.880
for everybody anyway, to have some peer -to -peer

00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:12.460
encrypted application. Librem 5 USA. This is

00:17:12.460 --> 00:17:18.859
a Linux phone, isn't it? Yes. Made in the USA.

00:17:21.460 --> 00:17:24.940
Electronics with a secure supply chain. What

00:17:24.940 --> 00:17:28.359
does that mean? Made with a secure supply chain.

00:17:28.500 --> 00:17:29.099
What does that mean? If you want a smartphone

00:17:29.099 --> 00:17:31.180
built outside China in the walled gardens of

00:17:31.180 --> 00:17:33.500
Google and Apple, this may be for you according

00:17:33.500 --> 00:17:36.440
to the register. So it's real? Yeah, I just Googled.

00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:40.039
32 gigabytes. Get the fuck out of here. My phone

00:17:40.039 --> 00:17:42.400
is a terabyte, you fucking idiots. There you

00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:46.390
go. It's the equivalent of your flip phone. What

00:17:46.390 --> 00:17:48.410
else is in there? It's for essential communications.

00:17:48.410 --> 00:17:50.809
Scroll back up so I can see the stats. Look at

00:17:50.809 --> 00:17:53.549
that. 5 .7 in screen. Okay, it's kind of small.

00:17:53.990 --> 00:17:57.630
Three gigabytes of memory. Piss poor. 32 gigabytes

00:17:57.630 --> 00:18:01.509
of storage. That's terrible. But 4 ,500 milliamp

00:18:01.509 --> 00:18:03.869
battery is substantial. And replaceable. Ooh,

00:18:04.049 --> 00:18:06.970
that's nice. The big battery is substantial,

00:18:07.109 --> 00:18:09.329
but that probably means that it's not water resistant

00:18:09.329 --> 00:18:14.240
if it's got a replaceable battery. Hmm. So Pure

00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:18.339
OS is what it runs. It would be a phone. That's

00:18:18.339 --> 00:18:21.480
made in America. According to this. Unless there's

00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:24.599
some sneaky stuff, too. Well, what I'm worried

00:18:24.599 --> 00:18:27.579
about is I think they said they used supply chain.

00:18:27.880 --> 00:18:31.279
Yeah. Secure U .S. supply chain smartphone. You're

00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:34.039
not saying what I want you to say. What I want

00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:36.539
you to say is everything is made in America.

00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:39.450
All fabrication and manufacturing done at. The

00:18:39.450 --> 00:18:41.890
Purism facility. Fabrication and manufacturing.

00:18:41.990 --> 00:18:44.109
Individual components used in the fabrication

00:18:44.109 --> 00:18:46.049
are sourced direct from the chip market. That

00:18:46.049 --> 00:18:48.730
means they're from other countries. We use U

00:18:48.730 --> 00:18:50.690
.S. companies with U .S. fabrication whenever

00:18:50.690 --> 00:18:52.890
possible. That doesn't mean it's from the U .S.

00:18:52.990 --> 00:18:55.609
Most distributors are based in the U .S. Most,

00:18:55.710 --> 00:18:59.069
with the exception of large integrated circuits

00:18:59.069 --> 00:19:01.990
that are made in a variety of countries where

00:19:01.990 --> 00:19:04.710
those companies do fabrication, U .S., Taiwan,

00:19:04.930 --> 00:19:08.359
South Korea, Japan. Well, those companies, at

00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:10.279
least those countries that they just listed,

00:19:10.299 --> 00:19:15.180
aren't using slave labor. As an example of NXPCBU

00:19:15.180 --> 00:19:17.819
used from their fabrication in South Korea. While

00:19:17.819 --> 00:19:19.640
we source chips made from the U .S. wherever

00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:21.660
possible, chip country of origin is not nearly

00:19:21.660 --> 00:19:24.640
as meaningful as country of board fabrication,

00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:28.319
especially when all chips are verified. Hardware

00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:31.279
circuits that are driven by free software in

00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:33.140
the kernel. Yeah, these kernel motherfuckers.

00:19:33.140 --> 00:19:35.319
These Linux guys, they start talking kernel and

00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:37.940
my eyes gloss over. There's a chip shortage too,

00:19:38.019 --> 00:19:39.799
right? Yeah. Whatever that means. I don't know

00:19:39.799 --> 00:19:41.500
exactly what that means. It means it's hard to

00:19:41.500 --> 00:19:43.960
get a car. Yeah. Yeah, I had a friend who was

00:19:43.960 --> 00:19:46.000
trying to buy a Ford Raptor. He couldn't get

00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:50.750
one. Oh, yeah. I ordered my pickup truck. Wanted

00:19:50.750 --> 00:19:52.769
to get one in a manual, so I had an old Tacoma,

00:19:52.829 --> 00:19:55.069
gave it to my brother -in -law. You wanted to

00:19:55.069 --> 00:19:56.829
get a pickup truck and a manual transmission?

00:19:57.009 --> 00:19:59.250
There's only two that are still made. Who makes

00:19:59.250 --> 00:20:02.190
it? Tacoma makes a limited edition Pro Sport.

00:20:02.470 --> 00:20:04.890
And the Jeep pickup truck comes in a manual.

00:20:05.269 --> 00:20:07.950
Oh, well, the Jeep kind of makes sense. I can't

00:20:07.950 --> 00:20:10.170
believe Tacoma still does that. Why do you want

00:20:10.170 --> 00:20:12.509
a manual pickup truck? I want my daughter to

00:20:12.509 --> 00:20:15.769
be able to drive manual. Oh. And I just miss

00:20:15.769 --> 00:20:18.670
driving manual. Really? I grew up driving manual.

00:20:19.559 --> 00:20:21.400
you know, six years ago when all cars went to

00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:22.980
dual clutch, like when sports cars went to dual

00:20:22.980 --> 00:20:24.700
clutch, I basically get up. So I still drive

00:20:24.700 --> 00:20:26.940
manual on the track, but I kind of miss it on

00:20:26.940 --> 00:20:28.599
the road. And I, and I just, I do want my daughter

00:20:28.599 --> 00:20:31.259
to drive a manual. I feel it'll keep her. Well,

00:20:31.299 --> 00:20:33.720
also it'll like, you'll be texting less and screwing

00:20:33.720 --> 00:20:36.720
around less. I hope so. Maybe not. But anyway,

00:20:36.740 --> 00:20:38.099
the point is I ordered the thing like six months

00:20:38.099 --> 00:20:40.640
ago and it's always like a month away. Yeah.

00:20:40.740 --> 00:20:43.670
It'll be a month away for another year. Yeah,

00:20:43.730 --> 00:20:45.569
I have manual cars. I have a bunch of manual

00:20:45.569 --> 00:20:48.609
cars, but they're older cars. Like I have a 2007

00:20:48.609 --> 00:20:52.369
Porsche GT3 RS. That's a manual. The Gunther

00:20:52.369 --> 00:20:55.309
Works Porsche is a manual. I got a 70 Chevelle.

00:20:55.329 --> 00:20:58.650
That's a manual. 69 Camaro. That's a manual.

00:20:58.789 --> 00:21:01.089
I got a bunch of manual cars. That 69 Camaro

00:21:01.089 --> 00:21:05.049
is a four -speed? No, it's a Restomod. It's a

00:21:05.049 --> 00:21:08.529
six -speed with an 850 horsepower engine. The

00:21:08.529 --> 00:21:12.480
07 GT3. Must be nice. Oh, it's fun. Yeah. It's

00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:15.180
really fun. It's a Shark Works car, too. Oh,

00:21:15.180 --> 00:21:18.420
yeah. Yeah. Great sound. It's got 518 horsepower.

00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:22.299
Because of the exhaust, it's boosting it that

00:21:22.299 --> 00:21:25.160
much? No, they bore it out to 3 .9 liters from

00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:27.940
3 .6. Yeah, yeah. You know Shark Works? Of course.

00:21:28.059 --> 00:21:30.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I almost had it on mine. Oh,

00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:32.660
really? Yeah. Yeah. They make awesome stuff.

00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:37.279
They really – they're a big fan of manuals. They

00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:39.579
don't really particularly like dual -clutch cars

00:21:39.579 --> 00:21:42.900
either. So they particularly like like Gen 1

00:21:42.900 --> 00:21:48.440
and – like 997, Gen 1 and Gen 2 RSs that you

00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:51.660
could really juice up. Yeah. I mean, you know,

00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:55.799
it's funny. I wanted to get a GT3 in the 992

00:21:55.799 --> 00:22:00.450
.1, and the Porsche dealer here said – No problem.

00:22:00.509 --> 00:22:02.369
We have an allocation. We can get you one. But

00:22:02.369 --> 00:22:05.609
you're going to spend $75 ,000 over MSRP. And

00:22:05.609 --> 00:22:07.089
I was like, wait a minute. You're going to charge

00:22:07.089 --> 00:22:09.009
me. The dealer is going to charge me $75 ,000

00:22:09.009 --> 00:22:12.349
over the MSRP? No chance. That's so much more.

00:22:12.690 --> 00:22:19.210
Yeah. You can buy a 991 .2 RS for less. Yeah.

00:22:19.430 --> 00:22:21.950
That's dumb. Yeah, I'll give you a taste. You

00:22:21.950 --> 00:22:24.329
can get a taste. You get a little bit. You can't

00:22:24.329 --> 00:22:27.170
ask for $75 ,000. That's just hoping that someone's

00:22:27.170 --> 00:22:29.289
a rich asshole and they're just willing to throw

00:22:29.289 --> 00:22:32.130
the money down to have it. But you can get them

00:22:32.130 --> 00:22:37.529
from other states. I actually called three other

00:22:37.529 --> 00:22:40.309
dealers and the lowest premium I was getting

00:22:40.309 --> 00:22:43.450
was 40K over. Really? But I was just on principle.

00:22:43.569 --> 00:22:46.170
I'm like, I'm not doing it. It's the same reason

00:22:46.170 --> 00:22:48.130
there's certain watches I just won't buy because

00:22:48.130 --> 00:22:50.789
I'm not willing to pay the premium over when

00:22:50.789 --> 00:22:53.809
it's based on a false scarcity. Right, right.

00:22:53.849 --> 00:22:56.789
It just irks me. The watch market is very weird

00:22:56.789 --> 00:22:58.769
with that. There's some watches that you see

00:22:58.769 --> 00:23:01.250
them and you're like, why is that $100 ,000?

00:23:01.769 --> 00:23:04.029
Help me out. I have sold more watches in the

00:23:04.029 --> 00:23:08.009
last few years just – and I'm wearing like a

00:23:08.009 --> 00:23:11.829
$100 G -Shock that I love. Are you trying to

00:23:11.829 --> 00:23:14.910
get away from the watch fetish? No, I mean I

00:23:14.910 --> 00:23:18.650
have – Do you drink caffeine? Yeah, yeah. Kill

00:23:18.650 --> 00:23:22.950
clip. No, I mean I think I just – I had too many

00:23:22.950 --> 00:23:25.430
and I wouldn't wear them all and it just didn't

00:23:25.430 --> 00:23:29.680
make sense. I still have a lot of old watches

00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:32.960
that I really like, like kind of 60s, 50s watches.

00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:34.839
Oh, really? You collect them? Yeah. What do you

00:23:34.839 --> 00:23:38.980
got? What kind do you like? So I like Rolexes

00:23:38.980 --> 00:23:41.319
in that vintage, right? So kind of the Daytona,

00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:45.180
the no -date subs, and the GMTs in that first

00:23:45.180 --> 00:23:48.359
iteration. So the gilt version, which is kind

00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:51.339
of the yellow, like it has the brighter marks

00:23:51.339 --> 00:23:54.700
on it. Yeah. So I got a few years ago. Before

00:23:54.700 --> 00:23:58.740
they got really silly in pricing, a guy that

00:23:58.740 --> 00:24:00.880
I work with, his name's Andrew Shear in New York,

00:24:00.900 --> 00:24:02.720
who does just vintage Rolex. He calls me up.

00:24:02.740 --> 00:24:04.319
And I had told him for about a year and a half

00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:07.720
I wanted a certain, I wanted a Gilt 1675 GMT.

00:24:08.720 --> 00:24:10.859
And I remember I was getting on a plane. I was

00:24:10.859 --> 00:24:13.259
at Newark just leaving. And he goes, sends me

00:24:13.259 --> 00:24:16.019
a picture. And I'm like, dude, that's like new

00:24:16.019 --> 00:24:18.579
old stock. He goes, yeah. It was like some guy

00:24:18.579 --> 00:24:21.500
bought it in Hong Kong in 1967. It sat in a shoebox

00:24:21.500 --> 00:24:25.220
for. Till now. Wow. So it doesn't have any patina,

00:24:25.220 --> 00:24:27.700
no fade, no nothing? It actually still has a

00:24:27.700 --> 00:24:30.339
little bit of a patina just based on how old

00:24:30.339 --> 00:24:34.099
it is, but it's in perfect condition. I love

00:24:34.099 --> 00:24:36.559
that watch. You know what I don't like? And I

00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:38.220
like some of the watches, but I don't like that

00:24:38.220 --> 00:24:40.740
they're doing this. They're doing a faux patina

00:24:40.740 --> 00:24:43.619
on some watches. It's so weird. Like I got the

00:24:43.619 --> 00:24:47.180
Omega. I'm a big Omega fan. And I got the James

00:24:47.180 --> 00:24:49.779
Bond, the No Time to Die. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did

00:24:49.779 --> 00:24:51.240
you get the one with the metal bracelet? Yeah.

00:24:51.299 --> 00:24:53.640
Yeah, I just got that too. It's amazing. It's

00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:56.759
a beautiful watch. I'm a big fan of their – I'm

00:24:56.759 --> 00:24:59.279
actually wearing one of their dive watches. But

00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:02.650
the – That one they use that faux patina, and

00:25:02.650 --> 00:25:04.869
I'm like why did you do that? This is one thing

00:25:04.869 --> 00:25:07.710
we kept it from being perfect. It's a beautiful

00:25:07.710 --> 00:25:10.369
I love I love tropical dials, and that's what

00:25:10.369 --> 00:25:12.630
makes that watch to me so beautiful tropical

00:25:12.630 --> 00:25:15.390
I mean like that brown color. Oh, that's tropical.

00:25:15.470 --> 00:25:17.730
Yeah, so tropical is like kind of one of the

00:25:17.730 --> 00:25:20.690
most Sought -after thing in a Daytona if you

00:25:20.690 --> 00:25:23.269
get it if you get an old Daytona with a tropical

00:25:23.269 --> 00:25:26.529
face It's they're hard to find but really gorgeous.

00:25:26.630 --> 00:25:29.769
Yeah, hmm why watches are weird because it's

00:25:29.769 --> 00:25:32.140
like There's something about it that appeals

00:25:32.140 --> 00:25:35.559
to men more than it does to women. I know there's

00:25:35.559 --> 00:25:37.160
a lot of women that are watch collectors, but

00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:39.980
it seems if I'm paying attention to the internet

00:25:39.980 --> 00:25:44.579
and watching videos, it's a male -dominated jewelry

00:25:44.579 --> 00:25:47.700
thing. Totally. Which is the only male -dominated

00:25:47.700 --> 00:25:50.400
jewelry thing that I could ever really think

00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:54.900
about. I don't think there's another one. Because

00:25:54.900 --> 00:25:56.720
it's weird because it's a jewelry thing, but

00:25:56.720 --> 00:25:59.339
it's also a mechanical thing. There's something

00:25:59.339 --> 00:26:01.880
about the engineering of the devices. I think

00:26:01.880 --> 00:26:06.700
that's why. It is our jewelry, but the mechanics

00:26:06.700 --> 00:26:08.500
of it are beautiful. If you like Omega, which

00:26:08.500 --> 00:26:12.259
I'm also very partial to Omega, the Ed White

00:26:12.259 --> 00:26:17.720
re -release Speedmaster 321 caliber is unbelievable.

00:26:17.740 --> 00:26:19.599
Which one's that? It's my favorite Omega. What

00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:21.700
does it look like? I have a couple of Speedmasters.

00:26:21.700 --> 00:26:23.680
So it looks just like a pretty regular Speedmaster,

00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:27.359
except that it has the caliber 321, which was

00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:30.619
the up to 1969 caliber. So this is the Moonwatch.

00:26:30.839 --> 00:26:34.500
So after 1969, they discontinued the caliber

00:26:34.500 --> 00:26:37.400
321 and they went to the caliber 1861, which

00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:39.539
is what they basically rode up until a few years

00:26:39.539 --> 00:26:44.599
ago. But the purist loves that 321. The problem

00:26:44.599 --> 00:26:46.519
is if you go back and buy one from the 60s, I

00:26:46.519 --> 00:26:49.190
have one. I have an old one as well. They're

00:26:49.190 --> 00:26:51.089
not the most reliable in the world. They're hard

00:26:51.089 --> 00:26:52.930
to service, you know, all sorts of things. So

00:26:52.930 --> 00:26:55.509
when they redid this, they had to basically,

00:26:55.589 --> 00:26:57.390
they didn't even have the original drawings for

00:26:57.390 --> 00:26:59.890
it anymore. They had to go back and look at existing

00:26:59.890 --> 00:27:02.109
watches and kind of extrapolate from the wear

00:27:02.109 --> 00:27:04.089
in the existing watches to what the movement

00:27:04.089 --> 00:27:06.369
did. Oh, wow. That's amazing. So they had to

00:27:06.369 --> 00:27:08.289
back engineer it? Yep. Had to reverse engineer

00:27:08.289 --> 00:27:11.049
it. Is that it right there? Yep. So there you

00:27:11.049 --> 00:27:13.890
go. That's pretty. I love watching those little

00:27:13.890 --> 00:27:16.269
things move around because you realize that they

00:27:16.269 --> 00:27:19.130
figured this out in the 1800s. Yeah. Probably

00:27:19.130 --> 00:27:21.450
even before, right, with pocket watches? Yeah.

00:27:21.509 --> 00:27:23.950
When was the first pocket watch? That's a good

00:27:23.950 --> 00:27:26.529
question. Let's take a guess before we Google

00:27:26.529 --> 00:27:29.250
it. Jamie, what do you think? First pocket watch.

00:27:29.470 --> 00:27:32.750
With mechanics that work like that? Yeah. Wind

00:27:32.750 --> 00:27:35.730
up. They were all wind up ones. I'm going to

00:27:35.730 --> 00:27:39.190
go old 15. No, let's say before that, so like

00:27:39.190 --> 00:27:41.970
1450 -ish. Really? They had to use something

00:27:41.970 --> 00:27:44.329
like that probably for maneuvering the oceans,

00:27:44.509 --> 00:27:47.750
I'm guessing. I don't know. How would they even

00:27:47.750 --> 00:27:49.910
agree to what time it was? I don't have any idea.

00:27:50.670 --> 00:27:53.450
See, because, like, before they agreed to what

00:27:53.450 --> 00:27:56.950
time it was, no one had a fucking clue, right?

00:27:57.289 --> 00:27:59.410
They were using sundials and things like that.

00:27:59.569 --> 00:28:01.890
There was a time in history where no one agreed

00:28:01.890 --> 00:28:04.390
what time it was. Well, like, how was Big Ben?

00:28:04.849 --> 00:28:06.869
Like, that's probably the first agreement, because

00:28:06.869 --> 00:28:08.289
they're like, hey, that's the fucking time right

00:28:08.289 --> 00:28:11.009
there. Right, that's a good point. Big Ben. I'm

00:28:11.009 --> 00:28:14.859
going to guess Big Ben is from... 1800. All right.

00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:16.400
I was not too far off. I'm going to go a little

00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:19.160
earlier. Really? Okay, hit me with it. 1510.

00:28:19.700 --> 00:28:21.819
1510 is the first watch? German watchmaker, Peter

00:28:21.819 --> 00:28:26.220
Heinlein. So he's like, this is the time? It's

00:28:26.220 --> 00:28:30.319
here. This is it. He's like just decided. He's

00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:32.380
the first guy to decide what the time is because

00:28:32.380 --> 00:28:34.779
everybody else is like, well, fuck you. I don't

00:28:34.779 --> 00:28:37.380
think that's the time. Like you could decide,

00:28:37.539 --> 00:28:40.480
right? If you go back to caveman days, there's

00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:43.480
no time. And then as like no one has any idea

00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:45.960
what the time it is. But as time moves forward

00:28:45.960 --> 00:28:48.940
and we get closer and closer to modern era, there

00:28:48.940 --> 00:28:50.839
had to come a point in time where they decided,

00:28:50.980 --> 00:28:55.319
all right, this is what noon is. Right here.

00:28:55.720 --> 00:29:00.079
Yeah. I love the way in which, like, how accurately

00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:02.240
we can record time now, right? It's pretty wild.

00:29:02.259 --> 00:29:04.299
With atomic clocks. That's kind of mind -boggling

00:29:04.299 --> 00:29:07.380
to me. Is it confusing us, though? Because we're,

00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:11.920
instead of looking at actual time, which is a

00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:16.220
thing that's existing right now only, there is

00:29:16.220 --> 00:29:18.940
the past and there is the future, but actual

00:29:18.940 --> 00:29:24.019
real time is just this. You can measure how long

00:29:24.019 --> 00:29:28.500
things take, but is it confusing us as to what

00:29:28.500 --> 00:29:31.319
time actually is? Because what we're really doing

00:29:31.319 --> 00:29:34.099
is measuring time on devices. We're measuring

00:29:34.099 --> 00:29:36.519
seconds that go by, hours that go by, minutes

00:29:36.519 --> 00:29:38.299
that go by. It's not giving you an excuse to

00:29:38.299 --> 00:29:40.940
not be prompt, but it's really kind of bullshit.

00:29:42.339 --> 00:29:45.539
Well, I don't know, but I will say this. Not

00:29:45.539 --> 00:29:47.599
having a watch on feels great sometimes. Not

00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:51.130
having a phone with you feels great. Being in

00:29:51.130 --> 00:29:53.690
nature, like when you're hunting, I do wear a

00:29:53.690 --> 00:29:56.970
watch, but only because I want to know where

00:29:56.970 --> 00:29:59.289
we are in relation to sunup and sundown. But

00:29:59.289 --> 00:30:02.309
outside of that, you have no care in the world.

00:30:02.549 --> 00:30:06.130
You care about wind. You care about scent. You

00:30:06.130 --> 00:30:08.309
care about other things. Did I tell you about

00:30:08.309 --> 00:30:10.630
the mountain lion I saw? No. I didn't tell you.

00:30:10.769 --> 00:30:13.809
When we were in Utah, I saw a giant mountain

00:30:13.809 --> 00:30:17.420
lion. Fucking giant. Like, as big as me. It was

00:30:17.420 --> 00:30:20.759
huge. It was huge. How far from you? We were

00:30:20.759 --> 00:30:23.160
in a truck, luckily, and it was about 30 yards

00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:26.599
away. My friend Colton spotted it. We were driving,

00:30:26.700 --> 00:30:28.779
and he hits the brakes. He goes, that fucking

00:30:28.779 --> 00:30:30.579
mountain lion. And I'm like, where? And then

00:30:30.579 --> 00:30:32.779
I see its eyes, because it was starting to get

00:30:32.779 --> 00:30:35.180
dark out, but it was still light, and its eyes

00:30:35.180 --> 00:30:37.799
were glowing. and uh i put up the binoculars

00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:39.619
to take a look at it like closer through the

00:30:39.619 --> 00:30:44.259
windshield and i was like holy it was huge i

00:30:44.259 --> 00:30:46.400
did not know they got that big They get to 200

00:30:46.400 --> 00:30:50.160
pounds. The one that I saw previously, I saw

00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:52.960
one in Santa Barbara, and it was probably like

00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:56.339
70 pounds, 60 pounds. It was pretty small. And

00:30:56.339 --> 00:30:58.019
then I saw another one in Colorado, but it was

00:30:58.019 --> 00:31:00.599
so brief. It was hard to tell, and that one seemed

00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:02.500
the same size. It seemed like a smaller juvenile

00:31:02.500 --> 00:31:05.579
one. This was not a juvenile. This was a 100

00:31:05.579 --> 00:31:09.220
% full -grown tom with a big old pumpkin head

00:31:09.220 --> 00:31:13.700
and huge paws, and the forearms were wild. That

00:31:13.700 --> 00:31:16.339
was the weirdest thing. His forearms were as

00:31:16.339 --> 00:31:19.200
big as my thighs. I was like, fuck, look at this

00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:22.400
fucking thing. It was just looking at us, you

00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:25.920
know, and it was under a tree. And, you know,

00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:29.700
we opened up the car door and tried to like get

00:31:29.700 --> 00:31:31.579
film of it and look at it closer and it took

00:31:31.579 --> 00:31:35.940
off. And it was so big. Because I was thinking

00:31:35.940 --> 00:31:38.420
like if I was out there on my own, you know,

00:31:38.420 --> 00:31:40.000
because people do that all the time. They hunt

00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:43.079
solo and they don't carry a weapon. You know,

00:31:43.140 --> 00:31:45.599
like Colton didn't have a weapon. I only had

00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:48.779
a bow and arrow. And here's this giant ass fucking

00:31:48.779 --> 00:31:51.700
cat. Like if we zigged when we should have zagged

00:31:51.700 --> 00:31:53.339
and all of a sudden we're on top of this thing

00:31:53.339 --> 00:31:57.640
and it decides to pounce on us. Fuck. That better

00:31:57.640 --> 00:32:00.240
be a good tri -pin. Yeah. Did you see that video

00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:02.160
of the guy who shot the mountain lion in the

00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:09.420
face? No. Jamie. He's hunting, too. And he's

00:32:09.420 --> 00:32:11.339
got a Glock out. And he's telling this mountain

00:32:11.339 --> 00:32:13.700
lion, hey, back up, back up. And it's not even,

00:32:13.839 --> 00:32:16.220
it's a smaller one, like a 90 -pound one. But

00:32:16.220 --> 00:32:18.660
he's saying to it, hey, fuck off. Get out of

00:32:18.660 --> 00:32:21.680
here. And then it makes a move on him. And he

00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:25.640
drops his phone. You hear crack, crack. One shot.

00:32:25.880 --> 00:32:29.960
One shot. And then you see the thing twitching

00:32:29.960 --> 00:32:31.759
on the ground. It's got a bullet hole in its

00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:35.750
face. Wow. Yeah. Doesn't have that gun. He's

00:32:35.750 --> 00:32:38.509
fucked. Because occasionally they will jump on

00:32:38.509 --> 00:32:41.289
people. And that's the situation this guy was

00:32:41.289 --> 00:32:44.150
in. Like, look at this. Give me some volume.

00:32:44.369 --> 00:32:45.990
Rewind it and give me the volume. Because when

00:32:45.990 --> 00:32:49.430
it's looking at its face. You get back. Look

00:32:49.430 --> 00:32:57.950
at that. You get back. You get back. You get

00:32:57.950 --> 00:33:11.720
back. Back. No. No. Motherfucker. I just had

00:33:11.720 --> 00:33:15.140
to shoot this f***ing mountain lion. It f***ing

00:33:15.140 --> 00:33:16.819
pounced at me and I popped it in the f***ing

00:33:16.819 --> 00:33:24.259
face. Holy s***. Holy s***. That is wild, right?

00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:31.700
Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. At least he's

00:33:31.700 --> 00:33:34.319
got, like, 100 % proof of self -defense. I mean,

00:33:34.339 --> 00:33:36.640
that thing was, like, 10 feet from him. Wow.

00:33:36.799 --> 00:33:39.539
And apparently it went, look at that. That's

00:33:39.539 --> 00:33:43.980
where he shot it, right through the face. Apparently

00:33:43.980 --> 00:33:49.700
it was about to pounce. What do you do? You got

00:33:49.700 --> 00:33:52.480
to do that, man. Yeah, but I don't bring a pistol

00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:54.279
with me when I win. Oh, no. But, I mean, you

00:33:54.279 --> 00:33:56.569
know, it's funny. I never thought about it except

00:33:56.569 --> 00:33:58.250
if you're hunting boars, right? That's the one

00:33:58.250 --> 00:34:00.170
time when you're like you have to have a gun

00:34:00.170 --> 00:34:01.670
with you if you're shooting a boar. They will

00:34:01.670 --> 00:34:05.289
charge you. Yeah. Yeah. And they'll charge you

00:34:05.289 --> 00:34:07.490
if you hit them. They'll charge you if you don't

00:34:07.490 --> 00:34:10.090
like if you're bow hunting. Yeah. I was watching

00:34:10.090 --> 00:34:12.929
a show once where the guy was packing and he

00:34:12.929 --> 00:34:16.230
shot a pig, a wild boar with a bow and arrow.

00:34:16.309 --> 00:34:18.789
And it came charging full clip at him with the

00:34:18.789 --> 00:34:21.030
arrow hanging out of its body. And he had to

00:34:21.030 --> 00:34:24.019
shoot it. Speaking of shooting, this range down

00:34:24.019 --> 00:34:26.559
the street from you is incredible. Which range?

00:34:26.980 --> 00:34:30.139
Whatever, the Austin Gun Club. Oh, the range.

00:34:30.300 --> 00:34:32.139
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The range, the indoor range.

00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:34.320
Yeah, it's great. Yeah, that place is really

00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:35.980
good. Yeah, I just went there for the first time

00:34:35.980 --> 00:34:37.780
today. Yeah, it's really good. Yeah, we have

00:34:37.780 --> 00:34:40.480
a corporate membership there. It's nice. Everybody

00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:44.840
can go go bang bang. It's good. It's like shooting

00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:47.619
guns is something you really have to do on a

00:34:47.619 --> 00:34:50.039
fairly regular basis. What do you think the frequency

00:34:50.039 --> 00:34:53.090
is? It's not as frequent as archery. I mean,

00:34:53.110 --> 00:34:56.369
archery, if I go two days without shooting my

00:34:56.369 --> 00:34:59.429
bow, I notice a difference. Really? Yeah. Yeah.

00:35:00.510 --> 00:35:02.230
What do you figure it is? Like, you got to do

00:35:02.230 --> 00:35:04.050
it once a month, twice a month? I think once

00:35:04.050 --> 00:35:06.070
a month is reasonable, as long as you really

00:35:06.070 --> 00:35:08.909
do take time and you make a lot of shots and

00:35:08.909 --> 00:35:12.010
you have good form and you're really paying attention

00:35:12.010 --> 00:35:16.269
to what you're doing, you know? I think... There's

00:35:16.269 --> 00:35:17.889
just too many people that have a gun and think

00:35:17.889 --> 00:35:19.670
that they're safe, and they don't know how to

00:35:19.670 --> 00:35:22.809
use it at all. They don't practice with it. It's

00:35:22.809 --> 00:35:24.690
really kind of strange. You could just buy a

00:35:24.690 --> 00:35:28.670
gun. You don't really have to have. To get a

00:35:28.670 --> 00:35:30.929
concealed carry permit, you have to show competency,

00:35:31.170 --> 00:35:33.610
but you don't really have to do that for a regular.

00:35:33.690 --> 00:35:38.269
The first time I bought a gun was in 1994 when

00:35:38.269 --> 00:35:40.750
I first moved to California, and I just walked

00:35:40.750 --> 00:35:43.460
into a gun shop. And they said, I want to buy

00:35:43.460 --> 00:35:45.739
a pistol. So I bought a Glock. I still own it.

00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:49.639
And I paid for it. They did a background check.

00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:52.280
I think it was like a few days. I got the gun.

00:35:52.300 --> 00:35:54.599
That's it. You don't have to know shit. I mean,

00:35:54.619 --> 00:35:57.019
I shot it at that range, but you don't really

00:35:57.019 --> 00:35:58.980
have to know much. And when I shot it at the

00:35:58.980 --> 00:36:01.840
range, nobody taught me how to shoot it. I just

00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:05.260
shot it. I'm just like, okay, you put the bullets

00:36:05.260 --> 00:36:07.480
here, and this is where the trigger is, and point

00:36:07.480 --> 00:36:10.059
it down there. Okay, bang, bang, bang. And now

00:36:10.059 --> 00:36:12.420
at least with YouTube, there are some people

00:36:12.420 --> 00:36:13.960
out there putting really good content out where

00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:15.980
you can, if you're a newbie, you can say, okay,

00:36:16.039 --> 00:36:19.280
well, show me what's the right technique. What

00:36:19.280 --> 00:36:21.659
are the mistakes that people make here and stuff

00:36:21.659 --> 00:36:23.260
like that. But yeah, back in the day, I mean.

00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:25.840
You really should get, I think you should get

00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:27.739
one -on -one instruction if you can afford it.

00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:29.980
I don't know how much it costs to get someone

00:36:29.980 --> 00:36:31.559
to teach you how to shoot a gun correctly, but

00:36:31.559 --> 00:36:34.769
someone should show you how to hold it. Place

00:36:34.769 --> 00:36:37.329
your hand and where you should put the pressure

00:36:37.329 --> 00:36:40.349
and which hand should be relaxed and how to line

00:36:40.349 --> 00:36:42.949
your sights up correctly. That's something that's

00:36:42.949 --> 00:36:46.510
a little tricky to do in a video, you know. For

00:36:46.510 --> 00:36:50.269
me, the long range stuff is, I just bought an

00:36:50.269 --> 00:36:53.769
Accuracy International 300 Norma Mag, like super,

00:36:53.869 --> 00:36:57.409
super long range rifle. And for me, and it's

00:36:57.409 --> 00:36:59.369
actually too big a gun for hunting. So it's not,

00:36:59.449 --> 00:37:02.030
it's really, it serves. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's

00:37:02.030 --> 00:37:04.389
just a little too long. Like the long barrel?

00:37:04.510 --> 00:37:07.110
It's just too heavy a gun to take into the field.

00:37:07.769 --> 00:37:10.550
Amazing weapon for hunting because the .300 Norma

00:37:10.550 --> 00:37:13.610
mag is a ridiculous caliber. Like that'll knock

00:37:13.610 --> 00:37:16.510
an elk over if you hit it in the shoulder at

00:37:16.510 --> 00:37:20.019
1 ,000 yards. Wow. This is a gun that you can

00:37:20.019 --> 00:37:22.159
work your way out to shooting a mile, you know,

00:37:22.159 --> 00:37:24.019
shooting a dinner plate at a mile, which is just,

00:37:24.059 --> 00:37:26.280
again, that to me is the joy, right? Like that's

00:37:26.280 --> 00:37:29.860
the fun is learning the wind and learning the

00:37:29.860 --> 00:37:33.119
technique because it is in the sense like archery.

00:37:33.139 --> 00:37:36.780
You know, in archery, if you can't control the

00:37:36.780 --> 00:37:40.210
pressure of your hand on the riser. At 20 yards,

00:37:40.230 --> 00:37:42.329
it doesn't matter, but at 80 yards, it matters

00:37:42.329 --> 00:37:45.309
everything. And it's the same thing with those

00:37:45.309 --> 00:37:49.769
guns. If you're not on the clavicle the right

00:37:49.769 --> 00:37:51.949
way and your face is not on this the right way

00:37:51.949 --> 00:37:54.210
and your trigger isn't pulling back perfectly,

00:37:54.369 --> 00:37:58.510
all of that stuff just amplifies mistakes. So

00:37:58.510 --> 00:38:01.920
for me, that's the most fun thing is those. Otherwise,

00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:04.300
not particularly helpful long -range rifles.

00:38:04.460 --> 00:38:06.739
Yeah, when you really get into archery, long

00:38:06.739 --> 00:38:09.699
-range shows you where your mistakes are. I was

00:38:09.699 --> 00:38:12.559
talking to Lee Lukosky, and he was saying that,

00:38:12.659 --> 00:38:14.840
for people who don't know, Lee Lukosky is a very

00:38:14.840 --> 00:38:17.800
famous bow hunter. And he was telling me that

00:38:17.800 --> 00:38:22.179
if he shoots 100 arrows, 99 of them are at 100

00:38:22.179 --> 00:38:26.039
yards. Wow. He says that's how you find out.

00:38:26.300 --> 00:38:29.360
where your form is and he goes and that's how

00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:32.420
it's repeatable because he shot an elk at a pretty

00:38:32.420 --> 00:38:35.000
far distance this year and he was explaining

00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:38.199
it to me he said i i have a whole process that

00:38:38.199 --> 00:38:42.280
i do when i shoot In the field versus when I

00:38:42.280 --> 00:38:45.079
shoot at a target, it's the same process. So

00:38:45.079 --> 00:38:48.460
he just does exactly what he does at home, and

00:38:48.460 --> 00:38:51.380
he's done it so many times that he's very confident

00:38:51.380 --> 00:38:54.480
that if he does have an 80 -plus yard shot on

00:38:54.480 --> 00:38:57.159
an elk that he can make it perfectly. What is

00:38:57.159 --> 00:38:59.980
your comfort range in the field, not at home?

00:39:00.659 --> 00:39:04.519
I've shot a lot of elk at 60 yards, 67 yards.

00:39:04.739 --> 00:39:08.199
I shot one at 75 yards. That was the one in California,

00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:09.840
right? Yeah. Yeah, that guy was bedded for a

00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:13.179
while. Yeah, yeah. But I was relaxed and I'd

00:39:13.179 --> 00:39:17.119
been shooting at 75 yards a lot. And I felt comfortable.

00:39:17.380 --> 00:39:20.860
Like there was no wind. I was comfortable. And,

00:39:20.860 --> 00:39:23.340
you know, an elk is a large target. If I was

00:39:23.340 --> 00:39:25.079
going to shoot a deer, it'd be significantly

00:39:25.079 --> 00:39:31.119
less. I shot an axis once at 69. It was a good

00:39:31.119 --> 00:39:34.599
situation. He was 100 % broadside and not at

00:39:34.599 --> 00:39:36.840
all jumpy. I mean, I had no clue I was there.

00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:39.039
But in retrospect, I still think that's a bit.

00:39:39.079 --> 00:39:40.360
I don't know that I would take that shot again.

00:39:40.900 --> 00:39:43.139
69 doesn't leave you much margin for error on

00:39:43.139 --> 00:39:44.679
a deer. They're not that big. They're so small.

00:39:44.679 --> 00:39:46.159
The axis deer especially. Yeah, what do they

00:39:46.159 --> 00:39:48.579
weigh, 120 pounds, like a big one? I mean, the

00:39:48.579 --> 00:39:51.679
biggest one I've ever shot was 200. 200, really?

00:39:51.900 --> 00:39:54.699
Yeah. He was a beast. Oh, wow. What island was

00:39:54.699 --> 00:39:57.480
this? Maui. Oh, no kidding. I've never been hunting

00:39:57.480 --> 00:40:00.679
on Maui. You got to come, man. I think it's 10

00:40:00.679 --> 00:40:03.519
times better than lanai. Really? Why? The terrain.

00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:07.239
You're up on the volcano, right? That makes sense.

00:40:07.500 --> 00:40:11.079
Haleakala is, I mean, the density of deer is

00:40:11.079 --> 00:40:13.960
not as high as lanai, of course, but the terrain

00:40:13.960 --> 00:40:16.460
is insane. And the bucks are huge. Like there

00:40:16.460 --> 00:40:19.380
are lots of 30 -inch bucks out there. Oh, wow.

00:40:19.559 --> 00:40:23.000
Well, the density in lanai is almost like. Right.

00:40:23.239 --> 00:40:25.280
It's like too many eyes on you. It's just too

00:40:25.280 --> 00:40:29.179
weird. It's also too weird. I kind of feel like

00:40:29.179 --> 00:40:31.639
you could just close your eyes and draw back

00:40:31.639 --> 00:40:34.719
and launch into the sky and you might hit something.

00:40:34.920 --> 00:40:37.800
You know? I mean, there's so many deer out there.

00:40:38.500 --> 00:40:41.920
For people who don't know what Lanai is, it's

00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:44.639
a very small island in the Hawaiian Islands chain

00:40:44.639 --> 00:40:47.880
and it has 30 ,000 deer on it, which is so crazy

00:40:47.880 --> 00:40:52.090
to say. Right. 3 ,000 people. That's right, and

00:40:52.090 --> 00:40:58.250
Molokai has 70 ,000. What? It's crazy. That's

00:40:58.250 --> 00:41:01.110
insane. Yeah, and Maui has the most, I believe,

00:41:01.230 --> 00:41:03.809
but obviously it's a bigger island. Maui has

00:41:03.809 --> 00:41:06.429
more than 70 ,000? I used to know the numbers

00:41:06.429 --> 00:41:08.070
for each of the three islands, but I think Maui

00:41:08.070 --> 00:41:11.670
might have like 100 ,000. Are they as jumpy in

00:41:11.670 --> 00:41:13.590
Maui as they are in Lanai? Because in Lanai,

00:41:13.670 --> 00:41:15.849
they're so pressured because they hunt them so

00:41:15.849 --> 00:41:18.849
often. I mean, that's the funny thing with them.

00:41:19.190 --> 00:41:22.460
Even when you're up in— In Haleakalā, they're

00:41:22.460 --> 00:41:24.880
still jumpy, and I keep thinking, like, why?

00:41:25.179 --> 00:41:27.219
They haven't been around humans, but their evolution

00:41:27.219 --> 00:41:30.760
is so strong. You know, I guess when you spend

00:41:30.760 --> 00:41:33.750
half a billion years getting away from... Tigers,

00:41:33.869 --> 00:41:37.769
yeah. You don't turn that off in 50 years. No,

00:41:37.929 --> 00:41:40.409
I mean, that is the fucking animal, right? If

00:41:40.409 --> 00:41:42.610
there's one animal that you evolved to get away

00:41:42.610 --> 00:41:45.510
from and you have to be fast, I mean, the way

00:41:45.510 --> 00:41:48.110
they can jump a string is so crazy. Like the

00:41:48.110 --> 00:41:50.110
bow goes off and they hear the sound, they're

00:41:50.110 --> 00:41:52.449
gone. It's amazing. It's so weird to see them

00:41:52.449 --> 00:41:54.869
move like that. It's like, how does... The central

00:41:54.869 --> 00:41:57.690
nervous system must be just so fucking tight

00:41:57.690 --> 00:42:02.090
and wired like a drum. They need some stress

00:42:02.090 --> 00:42:04.409
management techniques. I know. But it's weird

00:42:04.409 --> 00:42:06.389
because they seem so peaceful until that moment.

00:42:07.429 --> 00:42:10.969
They're like immediate to 100. Yeah. Because

00:42:10.969 --> 00:42:14.250
they don't seem jumpy until they jump. Yeah.

00:42:14.269 --> 00:42:17.010
It's amazing. Well, it's like what else are they

00:42:17.010 --> 00:42:19.030
going to do? This is the problem with Australia.

00:42:19.250 --> 00:42:21.889
It's the problem with New Zealand. It's like.

00:42:22.250 --> 00:42:25.309
In Australia, they've made giant mistakes with

00:42:25.309 --> 00:42:27.670
that where they brought in other animals to try

00:42:27.670 --> 00:42:33.150
to mitigate the number of this or that. And then

00:42:33.150 --> 00:42:35.409
those animals wind up wiping out native populations

00:42:35.409 --> 00:42:38.889
of nesting birds like cats, like feral cats in

00:42:38.889 --> 00:42:41.469
Australia. It's a giant problem. What the axis

00:42:41.469 --> 00:42:44.610
deer are doing in Hawaii is brutal for Hawaii.

00:42:44.849 --> 00:42:49.050
It's crazy. It's just killing that state. And

00:42:49.050 --> 00:42:51.070
what can they do other than hire people to shoot

00:42:51.070 --> 00:42:55.320
them? I mean, at this point, you know, Jake Muse,

00:42:55.480 --> 00:42:57.820
my friend who runs that company out there, that's

00:42:57.820 --> 00:42:59.840
Maui, Nui, Venison, these guys that are making,

00:42:59.980 --> 00:43:02.539
you know, commercializing. They have a USDA grade

00:43:02.539 --> 00:43:05.920
commercial program for making axis deer. And

00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:08.840
they're about as efficient as they get. He does

00:43:08.840 --> 00:43:10.519
not think they're, they're not even going to

00:43:10.519 --> 00:43:12.559
be able to flatten the population curve till

00:43:12.559 --> 00:43:16.250
2030. Whoa. So it's going to continue growing

00:43:16.250 --> 00:43:18.630
until 2030. Are they just making those venison

00:43:18.630 --> 00:43:20.949
sticks? Are they selling steaks and roasts? Everything.

00:43:21.090 --> 00:43:24.170
Chef's boxes, everything. Oh, that's great. How

00:43:24.170 --> 00:43:26.690
does someone get a hold of that? Because that

00:43:26.690 --> 00:43:29.429
is a great opportunity for you to get actual,

00:43:29.469 --> 00:43:32.869
real, legitimate wild game. And it happens to

00:43:32.869 --> 00:43:34.610
be one of the most delicious wild games. Yeah,

00:43:34.610 --> 00:43:36.829
yeah. I mean, if you go to, I assume, and by

00:43:36.829 --> 00:43:38.170
the way, I should just disclose, I'm an investor.

00:43:38.869 --> 00:43:41.869
But Maui Nui Venison, I think you just order

00:43:41.869 --> 00:43:44.170
online. How do you spell that? Maui. Nui, N -U

00:43:44.170 --> 00:43:46.969
-I, venison. See if you could find that. Yeah,

00:43:46.969 --> 00:43:50.289
see what, yeah. This is, I mean, I can't recommend

00:43:50.289 --> 00:43:55.099
venison. from uh axis deer enough it is so delicious

00:43:55.099 --> 00:43:58.659
okay so this is nice i usually like get boxes

00:43:58.659 --> 00:44:00.500
for friends as a gift when they're getting when

00:44:00.500 --> 00:44:02.360
they're being introduced to wild game i'm like

00:44:02.360 --> 00:44:05.039
oh they have bone broth too dude it's insane

00:44:05.039 --> 00:44:08.739
the bone broth is next level this is amazing

00:44:08.739 --> 00:44:12.179
the company that we had do the analysis on the

00:44:12.179 --> 00:44:15.900
protein content repeated the analysis twice because

00:44:15.900 --> 00:44:18.019
they didn't believe how much protein it had in

00:44:18.019 --> 00:44:22.099
it. 25 grams of protein in a fucking bone broth?

00:44:22.360 --> 00:44:25.139
Yeah. Whoa. They were like, yeah, yeah, this

00:44:25.139 --> 00:44:27.840
is 2x every other animal we've ever seen. There

00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:29.559
must be a mistake. They just repeated it over

00:44:29.559 --> 00:44:31.719
and over again. Look how delicious that must

00:44:31.719 --> 00:44:34.900
be. Let me see that. I'll tell you, you use this

00:44:34.900 --> 00:44:38.599
as your stock and make rice? It's insane. Oh,

00:44:38.719 --> 00:44:42.219
nice. How much does that shit cost? I don't know.

00:44:42.280 --> 00:44:46.179
Whoa, $125. For eight bags. Oh, eight bags. Oh,

00:44:46.320 --> 00:44:51.119
15 ounces each. Oh, that's nice. I'm in. But

00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:52.900
what's amazing about this, and I think this is

00:44:52.900 --> 00:44:54.760
why it tastes so good, it tastes better than

00:44:54.760 --> 00:44:56.800
when you and I shoot one. Because when you and

00:44:56.800 --> 00:44:58.679
I shoot an axis deer, even if it's a perfect

00:44:58.679 --> 00:45:01.219
shot, that animal still takes a minute to die.

00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:03.619
In other words, there's still a minute of stress

00:45:03.619 --> 00:45:06.019
in its life. Oh, and these guys, they headshot

00:45:06.019 --> 00:45:08.389
them. They headshot them at night. So they're

00:45:08.389 --> 00:45:12.010
using night vision. They're 200 yards away. Yep.

00:45:12.630 --> 00:45:16.550
And the animals are so unstressed that if there's

00:45:16.550 --> 00:45:18.110
like, they'll shoot a group. There'll be 12 of

00:45:18.110 --> 00:45:19.489
them there, right? And they'll have the sniper.

00:45:19.789 --> 00:45:22.630
He shoots one. Billy goes down. The other 11

00:45:22.630 --> 00:45:25.869
don't even move. Wow. Yeah. Where'd Billy go?

00:45:25.949 --> 00:45:27.860
I don't know. And the next guy gets it. At least

00:45:27.860 --> 00:45:30.800
taking a nap. Yeah. Wow. And then they process

00:45:30.800 --> 00:45:34.139
on site. So there's a USDA inspector with the

00:45:34.139 --> 00:45:36.940
sniper for every single shot. Every carcass is

00:45:36.940 --> 00:45:39.920
examined. It has to be a perfect kill. That's

00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:42.599
a great way to get meat. It really is. If you

00:45:42.599 --> 00:45:44.860
want to think about an ethical way for you to

00:45:44.860 --> 00:45:46.300
consume meat, if you're one of those people that

00:45:46.300 --> 00:45:48.699
doesn't want to buy factory farmed meat, get

00:45:48.699 --> 00:45:51.860
some of that. I can't. I mean, next to hunting,

00:45:52.039 --> 00:45:53.679
that is about as good as you can get. Do you

00:45:53.679 --> 00:45:58.179
find your taste for... Like non wild game has

00:45:58.179 --> 00:46:02.219
gone down well when I eat a fatty piece of domestic

00:46:02.219 --> 00:46:05.599
beef I think if it's like a sloppy lazy person

00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:08.920
like I'm like you know I mean like if I see an

00:46:08.920 --> 00:46:11.880
athlete and Then I go wow that guy looks like

00:46:11.880 --> 00:46:14.420
he's in shape, and then I see a sloppy lazy person

00:46:14.420 --> 00:46:18.929
like I just I just find that like And, again,

00:46:19.010 --> 00:46:20.650
we're lucky, right? We get to hunt these animals.

00:46:20.750 --> 00:46:22.369
We get to eat the elk. We get to eat the axis

00:46:22.369 --> 00:46:25.150
deer. These are, you know, along with maybe pronghorn

00:46:25.150 --> 00:46:27.170
and a few others, this is about as tasty as it

00:46:27.170 --> 00:46:30.670
gets. But, boy, I find that even a really nice

00:46:30.670 --> 00:46:33.610
ribeye just doesn't taste as good as it did to

00:46:33.610 --> 00:46:35.809
me five years ago. Yeah. Well, it's missing a

00:46:35.809 --> 00:46:40.650
lot of nutrition. It's not – if you look at the

00:46:40.650 --> 00:46:45.030
dark red meat of elk, like elk, like a backstrap

00:46:45.030 --> 00:46:50.150
from elk is a – Dark, red, like I took a photo

00:46:50.150 --> 00:46:55.829
a couple days ago of some backstrap from the

00:46:55.829 --> 00:46:58.769
elk I shot in California this year. I just cooked

00:46:58.769 --> 00:47:01.929
it up. This was your 415? Yeah, that giant one.

00:47:02.030 --> 00:47:05.090
Amazing. Yeah, it was huge. This is so much meat.

00:47:05.449 --> 00:47:09.530
What I do is I'll cook a bunch of pieces like

00:47:09.530 --> 00:47:12.349
that, and then I'll eat it throughout the week.

00:47:12.409 --> 00:47:14.969
How did you prep that? Did you do that on the

00:47:14.969 --> 00:47:18.590
Traeger? Yes. I cook it on a Traeger at 265 degrees.

00:47:18.889 --> 00:47:21.070
I've tried a bunch of – the reason why it's blackened

00:47:21.070 --> 00:47:24.530
on the outside is I'm using a rub called Traeger

00:47:24.530 --> 00:47:28.449
Saskatchewan. I think it's blackened Saskatchewan

00:47:28.449 --> 00:47:30.070
rub. That's one of my favorites. Yeah, it's my

00:47:30.070 --> 00:47:32.949
favorite for elk. And so that's not like burnt

00:47:32.949 --> 00:47:34.730
on the outside. That's the actual rub itself.

00:47:35.960 --> 00:47:39.260
So I take it and I bring the internal temperature

00:47:39.260 --> 00:47:42.340
up to 120 degrees and then I sear the outside

00:47:42.340 --> 00:47:45.360
on a cast iron pan. I usually do maybe a minute

00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:48.699
and a half on a really hot. cast iron pan with

00:47:48.699 --> 00:47:52.760
beef tallow. I use grass -fed beef tallow. And

00:47:52.760 --> 00:47:56.460
then I pull it, I let it rest, I slice it, and

00:47:56.460 --> 00:47:59.199
then my family, we ate a lot of it, and then

00:47:59.199 --> 00:48:02.260
the rest of it I put in like a Tupperware, and

00:48:02.260 --> 00:48:04.760
then I'll eat it throughout the week. Because

00:48:04.760 --> 00:48:07.460
in the morning, it's hard for me to get everything

00:48:07.460 --> 00:48:10.079
in, all the stuff that I do and work out, and

00:48:10.079 --> 00:48:14.000
then I'm pretty religious about my sauna and

00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:17.150
cold plunge. So I'm doing – I have to allocate

00:48:17.150 --> 00:48:21.289
40 minutes to that. And so between my workouts

00:48:21.289 --> 00:48:23.550
and everything and I'm getting up at 7 in the

00:48:23.550 --> 00:48:26.150
morning and then I'm out here doing the podcast,

00:48:26.289 --> 00:48:28.550
I got to get everything in. So I want a meal

00:48:28.550 --> 00:48:30.730
that I can just pull out of the fridge and in

00:48:30.730 --> 00:48:34.590
10 minutes I'm done. Sit down, eat it, take my

00:48:34.590 --> 00:48:38.730
vitamins, go. And so that's my move. I mean elk

00:48:38.730 --> 00:48:42.250
is absolutely bananas. I also like it with –

00:48:42.250 --> 00:48:46.170
I use – Do you ever use any of Mark Sisson's

00:48:46.170 --> 00:48:49.389
stuff, his Primal Kitchen stuff? I know my kids

00:48:49.389 --> 00:48:52.710
love his mayo. Yes. The avocado mayo, I think

00:48:52.710 --> 00:48:53.809
it is. That's exactly what I was going to talk

00:48:53.809 --> 00:48:58.869
about. He's got this chipotle avocado mayo, and

00:48:58.869 --> 00:49:02.889
it's all avocado oil, and it's like a chipotle

00:49:02.889 --> 00:49:06.659
pepper. seasoning to it and I just take some

00:49:06.659 --> 00:49:09.440
of that and I put a like a fucking pile of it

00:49:09.440 --> 00:49:11.519
on the plate and I dip the elk in that so I'm

00:49:11.519 --> 00:49:13.519
getting my fats that way because you're not really

00:49:13.519 --> 00:49:15.940
getting much fat yeah it's no fat there's no

00:49:15.940 --> 00:49:17.699
fat in it that's the only thing that's missing

00:49:17.699 --> 00:49:19.840
from wild game is the fat content so you got

00:49:19.840 --> 00:49:22.519
to get your fat content from somewhere else and

00:49:22.519 --> 00:49:27.099
um I'm changing my diet a lot lately and uh I've

00:49:27.099 --> 00:49:32.150
basically decided that My love for pasta and

00:49:32.150 --> 00:49:35.269
my love for bread and sugar, it's not worth it.

00:49:35.469 --> 00:49:39.030
Like when I go long stretches of time without

00:49:39.030 --> 00:49:41.409
eating that stuff and then I eat it, the impact

00:49:41.409 --> 00:49:44.789
is so tangible. It's so obvious. But it's so

00:49:44.789 --> 00:49:47.050
casual when you eat it all the time. When you

00:49:47.050 --> 00:49:48.570
eat it all the time, you're always eating bread.

00:49:48.670 --> 00:49:50.210
You're always eating pasta. It's like you're

00:49:50.210 --> 00:49:52.969
used to feeling like shit. But if you go like

00:49:52.969 --> 00:49:56.150
three or four weeks with just eating like – I'll

00:49:56.150 --> 00:50:00.670
eat like potatoes, tubers. I'll eat meat. I'll

00:50:00.670 --> 00:50:05.110
eat salads. I like salads with – I almost always

00:50:05.110 --> 00:50:09.369
just have olive oil and some sort of a vinaigrette,

00:50:09.530 --> 00:50:13.210
some sort of vinegar. And when I eat like that,

00:50:13.289 --> 00:50:17.090
I feel so much better. So I've decided like I'm

00:50:17.090 --> 00:50:19.199
not going to eat any other way anymore. Like,

00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:21.840
I will give myself, like, one cheat meal a week.

00:50:21.980 --> 00:50:24.539
But the rest of the week, I'm not eating like

00:50:24.539 --> 00:50:27.019
that. Like, last night, somebody brought cheeseburgers

00:50:27.019 --> 00:50:29.639
from Golden Tiger to the show at the Vulcan,

00:50:29.719 --> 00:50:32.139
and I was like, I'm not eating that. I'm not

00:50:32.139 --> 00:50:34.860
eating it. Did you do a similar set to the one

00:50:34.860 --> 00:50:38.940
a couple weeks ago that I saw? Yes. It's insane.

00:50:39.139 --> 00:50:42.119
Thank you. You know, to this day, my wife and

00:50:42.119 --> 00:50:43.980
I still make some of those. I don't want to let

00:50:43.980 --> 00:50:46.019
any of the jokes out, but you know the one I'm

00:50:46.019 --> 00:50:51.400
talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Once a day,

00:50:51.440 --> 00:50:53.860
we make that joke. It's because this is a set

00:50:53.860 --> 00:50:55.659
that's essentially, well, there's some new stuff

00:50:55.659 --> 00:50:57.480
in it because there's a lot of COVID stuff, but

00:50:57.480 --> 00:51:00.320
it's basically like the really strong bits are.

00:51:00.730 --> 00:51:03.090
two and a half years old because usually they

00:51:03.090 --> 00:51:05.070
would have been on a special by now but because

00:51:05.070 --> 00:51:07.750
of covid because covid everybody's tour schedule

00:51:07.750 --> 00:51:11.210
up and everything just got really polished and

00:51:11.210 --> 00:51:13.469
tight dude i don't know if you could hear me

00:51:13.469 --> 00:51:16.679
but i was I was literally embarrassing myself

00:51:16.679 --> 00:51:19.639
how much I was cackling in the back there. That's

00:51:19.639 --> 00:51:21.900
a great room, too. The Vulcan Gas Company on

00:51:21.900 --> 00:51:24.460
6th Street. It's a great room. Hey, speaking

00:51:24.460 --> 00:51:26.579
of, did you end up getting that comedy club?

00:51:26.679 --> 00:51:27.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't say anything, though.

00:51:27.739 --> 00:51:30.440
I haven't announced where it is or what it is,

00:51:30.500 --> 00:51:32.340
but yeah, I got that. The one in Santa Barbara.

00:51:32.599 --> 00:51:35.000
No. No, I'm kidding. No, it's on the moon. Yeah.

00:51:35.639 --> 00:51:39.960
No, I did. I'm excited. I'll show you. I'm taking

00:51:39.960 --> 00:51:41.780
Ron White on a tour of it this afternoon if you

00:51:41.780 --> 00:51:45.360
want to come. I'd love to see it, man. That's

00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:48.840
awesome. You have the best backyard range I've

00:51:48.840 --> 00:51:51.599
ever seen ever. Dude, it just got better, too.

00:51:51.659 --> 00:51:54.119
How did it get better? I just bought more. Peter

00:51:54.119 --> 00:51:56.400
has this range in his backyard because Peter's

00:51:56.400 --> 00:51:59.780
an archery nut like me, and he basically has

00:51:59.780 --> 00:52:02.400
a professional archery range in your backyard.

00:52:02.519 --> 00:52:04.579
It's like you have hundreds of yards to shoot.

00:52:04.840 --> 00:52:07.079
Well, we just bought the lot next to us, so now

00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:10.400
it's like we could literally set up a tack. Oh,

00:52:10.400 --> 00:52:13.719
wow. Yeah. And so what I've done now is I got

00:52:13.719 --> 00:52:16.179
now elk in the woods. That's what makes it better.

00:52:16.300 --> 00:52:19.300
So now when I was preparing for the elk hunt

00:52:19.300 --> 00:52:21.539
this year, I was doing most of my shooting was

00:52:21.539 --> 00:52:25.019
in between trees. Trying to build my confidence

00:52:25.019 --> 00:52:27.440
at if you want to shoot something 50 yards away,

00:52:27.519 --> 00:52:29.800
but you got two trees like this and a branch

00:52:29.800 --> 00:52:32.480
going like this. Right. Now you've got to, you

00:52:32.480 --> 00:52:34.840
have to judge like, well, can I make that shot

00:52:34.840 --> 00:52:37.099
because of the arc of the arrow? Do you have

00:52:37.099 --> 00:52:39.610
a full draw for? I do. You do? Those are the

00:52:39.610 --> 00:52:41.769
shit. The Leupold has, for people that don't

00:52:41.769 --> 00:52:43.889
know what we're talking about, Leupold has a

00:52:43.889 --> 00:52:46.789
range finder that you put in the weight of your

00:52:46.789 --> 00:52:49.610
arrow, the weight of the bow, the length of your

00:52:49.610 --> 00:52:52.929
peep sight, everything. You have to put in everything.

00:52:53.269 --> 00:52:55.409
Is it a peep sight? Is that calculated in? I

00:52:55.409 --> 00:52:57.329
think it's peep height elevation. Yeah? Yep.

00:52:57.409 --> 00:52:59.670
Okay. So you calculate all those things and it

00:52:59.670 --> 00:53:03.440
will literally show you. how high your arrow

00:53:03.440 --> 00:53:06.039
will be at the peak. So if you range something,

00:53:06.260 --> 00:53:09.059
which is what you do, and you dial it in on your

00:53:09.059 --> 00:53:11.440
site, it'll show you if you're going to hit a

00:53:11.440 --> 00:53:13.980
branch or not. Yeah, it's pretty sweet. It is.

00:53:14.079 --> 00:53:15.820
And they really took care of me because I had

00:53:15.820 --> 00:53:18.840
the, I don't know which one. I had one that came

00:53:18.840 --> 00:53:21.920
out a few years earlier and it was okay. And

00:53:21.920 --> 00:53:23.920
then it just stopped working one day. It literally

00:53:23.920 --> 00:53:27.119
wouldn't, it would only range something that

00:53:27.119 --> 00:53:30.000
was perfectly dark. But anything that had even

00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:33.619
a... Bit of brown in it, wouldn't range. And

00:53:33.619 --> 00:53:35.519
I sent it back to them and I was like, hey, can

00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:36.920
you guys fix it? And they're like, they just

00:53:36.920 --> 00:53:39.059
sent me a full draw four, no charge. Wow. Which

00:53:39.059 --> 00:53:41.599
is like, I mean, that's a really expensive range

00:53:41.599 --> 00:53:44.199
finder. It's kind of wild that someone figured

00:53:44.199 --> 00:53:46.179
out that you could shoot a laser at something

00:53:46.179 --> 00:53:48.840
and then it'll report back to you how far that

00:53:48.840 --> 00:53:52.159
laser is touching something. Well, I mean, that's

00:53:52.159 --> 00:53:54.260
amazing. But the fact that they can just do angle

00:53:54.260 --> 00:53:57.840
compensation is awesome. Yeah. Yeah, for people

00:53:57.840 --> 00:53:59.219
who don't know what we're talking about because

00:53:59.219 --> 00:54:02.179
we went into the full archery nerd mode. Angle

00:54:02.179 --> 00:54:05.019
compensation means if you are shooting 50 yards,

00:54:05.179 --> 00:54:08.159
right, if the object is 50 yards, but it's 50

00:54:08.159 --> 00:54:12.289
yards uphill. you will really be shooting more

00:54:12.289 --> 00:54:15.889
for like, you're probably 57 yards. You have

00:54:15.889 --> 00:54:17.969
to, because you're fighting against gravity.

00:54:18.170 --> 00:54:21.230
And if you're shooting downhill 50 yards, you're

00:54:21.230 --> 00:54:23.869
really probably shooting 20 yards because you

00:54:23.869 --> 00:54:26.949
have no problem with gravity. It's non -existent.

00:54:26.949 --> 00:54:30.469
So you have to use an angle compensating range

00:54:30.469 --> 00:54:34.250
finder that tells you based on how you're turning.

00:54:35.119 --> 00:54:38.500
the rangefinder, which direction it's going,

00:54:38.719 --> 00:54:41.179
whether or not you need to add or subtract yards.

00:54:41.260 --> 00:54:43.019
And it does it all internally. It calculates

00:54:43.019 --> 00:54:45.780
everything. And the first shot I ever took in

00:54:45.780 --> 00:54:49.159
my life at an animal went a foot over his back

00:54:49.159 --> 00:54:52.139
because I had been doing all my practicing with

00:54:52.139 --> 00:54:55.980
a compensated rangefinder. And this was out in

00:54:55.980 --> 00:55:01.800
Molokai. And it was an axis deer. My guide is

00:55:01.800 --> 00:55:05.000
behind me and he ranges it, but he is using an

00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:07.659
old school range finder that doesn't have angle

00:55:07.659 --> 00:55:10.179
compensation. What? Yeah. How is he doing that?

00:55:10.280 --> 00:55:13.440
Because he's old school. That's dumb. So this

00:55:13.440 --> 00:55:17.719
animal was probably 20 degrees down. Right. So

00:55:17.719 --> 00:55:22.320
I just took the distance and assumed it was compensated

00:55:22.320 --> 00:55:24.719
for and shot. And I was like, that was a perfect

00:55:24.719 --> 00:55:26.940
shot. Why did it go a foot over that animal?

00:55:27.199 --> 00:55:30.159
Yeah. And I was like. Let me see that range finder.

00:55:30.159 --> 00:55:31.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then I realized, I said, Wayne,

00:55:32.119 --> 00:55:33.659
you don't have angle compensation on here. He's

00:55:33.659 --> 00:55:36.739
like, no. I was like, hey, from now on, can you

00:55:36.739 --> 00:55:41.599
hold my range finder? Yeah, the amount of technology

00:55:41.599 --> 00:55:44.559
that's involved in bow hunting and just hunting

00:55:44.559 --> 00:55:47.960
in general now. I mean, people have watches that

00:55:47.960 --> 00:55:50.860
have GPS on them. And, you know, you could put

00:55:50.860 --> 00:55:54.280
waypoints and you could track on your phone exactly

00:55:54.280 --> 00:55:57.239
where the hit was. And then, you know, from there

00:55:57.239 --> 00:56:00.260
on, you could mark where each drop of blood you

00:56:00.260 --> 00:56:03.460
find is. So I learned something last year that

00:56:03.460 --> 00:56:07.380
blew my mind. My wife, as a gift, got me a framed

00:56:07.380 --> 00:56:11.579
picture of Matthew McPherson's patent for the

00:56:11.579 --> 00:56:14.500
compound bow. And I was like, oh, this is so

00:56:14.500 --> 00:56:16.539
beautiful. So it hangs up in my, you know, my

00:56:16.539 --> 00:56:18.400
archery room. But here's the thing that blew

00:56:18.400 --> 00:56:20.280
my mind. What year do you think that patent was?

00:56:20.460 --> 00:56:21.880
I kind of gave it away because I told you it

00:56:21.880 --> 00:56:23.500
was Matthew McPherson. So, you know, I don't

00:56:23.500 --> 00:56:28.960
know who he is. So you didn't give it away. Compound

00:56:28.960 --> 00:56:31.480
bow. I've seen some old shitty ones and they

00:56:31.480 --> 00:56:34.320
look like they're from the 60s. So I'm going

00:56:34.320 --> 00:56:38.199
to say 55. Yeah, that's what I guess. It's 87.

00:56:38.800 --> 00:56:43.719
Whoa. Really? Yeah. The patent for the compound

00:56:43.719 --> 00:56:47.619
bow is 1987. Wow. That's amazing when you think

00:56:47.619 --> 00:56:49.260
of how far that, yeah, there it is. That's it?

00:56:49.519 --> 00:56:51.619
There it is. So you got that at your house? Yep.

00:56:51.880 --> 00:56:54.340
What kind of a fucking wizard figured out a cam

00:56:54.340 --> 00:56:57.059
for a bow like that and figured out all those

00:56:57.059 --> 00:56:59.420
strings? Dude, I think it's the same guy who

00:56:59.420 --> 00:57:01.820
makes Matthew's bows. Really? Yeah. Isn't that

00:57:01.820 --> 00:57:04.219
who Matthew McPherson is? It must be Matthew's.

00:57:04.219 --> 00:57:07.019
So that's the original bow. Yeah. They still

00:57:07.019 --> 00:57:08.659
make one of the best bows in the world right

00:57:08.659 --> 00:57:10.960
now. You ever shot one of them? I have never

00:57:10.960 --> 00:57:13.340
shot one, but it looks amazing. They're amazing.

00:57:13.340 --> 00:57:16.179
Just such a perfect hunting bow, such a short

00:57:16.179 --> 00:57:20.219
axis, so compact. Yeah, the new ones are incredible.

00:57:20.639 --> 00:57:23.500
Shane Dorian shoots with one. He loves it. He

00:57:23.500 --> 00:57:25.820
was telling me how incredible it is. There's

00:57:25.820 --> 00:57:29.059
so many bows now that are just top of the food

00:57:29.059 --> 00:57:32.400
chain. It's like I just got the new PSE. That's

00:57:32.400 --> 00:57:33.900
the carbon fiber one I was telling you about.

00:57:34.079 --> 00:57:36.940
It's incredible. It doesn't even – it feels so

00:57:36.940 --> 00:57:40.440
light. It feels fake. It's weird. When I go back

00:57:40.440 --> 00:57:43.960
and shoot my RX3, which is only three years old,

00:57:44.119 --> 00:57:47.579
it feels horrible compared to my NTN. Isn't that

00:57:47.579 --> 00:57:52.920
crazy? The cam is so miserable to me. So, yeah.

00:57:53.000 --> 00:57:55.119
We alienated a lot of people with this podcast.

00:57:55.880 --> 00:57:59.199
I bring on a doctor. He wants to talk about bow

00:57:59.199 --> 00:58:02.579
cams. All right. We're done with that. We can

00:58:02.579 --> 00:58:04.800
talk about anything. I don't give a fuck. It

00:58:04.800 --> 00:58:11.980
doesn't bother me. Is there any new information

00:58:11.980 --> 00:58:16.280
in the world of longevity and the world of health

00:58:16.280 --> 00:58:18.920
or anything that you know of that is exciting?

00:58:20.139 --> 00:58:23.280
I mean, two extremes, right? I think on the one

00:58:23.280 --> 00:58:25.260
end – Tell everybody what kind of medicine you

00:58:25.260 --> 00:58:27.960
practice just so they know. Oh, so I mean my

00:58:27.960 --> 00:58:30.900
practice is basically trying to figure out how

00:58:30.900 --> 00:58:33.880
to help people live with a greater lifespan.

00:58:33.960 --> 00:58:36.829
So how do you add – 10, 15 years to how long

00:58:36.829 --> 00:58:38.349
a person's going to live and then how do you

00:58:38.349 --> 00:58:40.630
improve health span? So how do you improve? And

00:58:40.630 --> 00:58:43.869
your degree is in what kind of medicine? So I

00:58:43.869 --> 00:58:46.730
did surgical oncology. I did general surgery

00:58:46.730 --> 00:58:52.630
and oncology. But I left medicine in 2006 and

00:58:52.630 --> 00:58:55.510
went, you know, did finance and other stuff and

00:58:55.510 --> 00:58:57.329
completely went away from it until I kind of

00:58:57.329 --> 00:58:59.230
came back to it about 10 years ago. Why did you

00:58:59.230 --> 00:59:03.340
leave it? I mean, truthfully, I was super frustrated.

00:59:03.719 --> 00:59:06.699
In cancer surgery, you're doing kind of like

00:59:06.699 --> 00:59:12.019
very heroic operations. I mean, the most technically

00:59:12.019 --> 00:59:16.420
challenging types of operations. But half the

00:59:16.420 --> 00:59:19.219
people still die, right? So 50 % of people who

00:59:19.219 --> 00:59:22.059
are going to have surgery, and in some cases

00:59:22.059 --> 00:59:23.619
more, if you're talking about pancreatic cancer,

00:59:23.980 --> 00:59:27.000
80 % of the people whose pancreas gets removed

00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:29.380
for cancer are going to be dead in five years.

00:59:29.639 --> 00:59:34.969
Wow. So, you know, I just I just felt like in

00:59:34.969 --> 00:59:37.130
all in all regards, I just felt like there wasn't

00:59:37.130 --> 00:59:40.190
enough in the way of prevention. And in some

00:59:40.190 --> 00:59:42.590
ways that is necessary. I mean, because I trained

00:59:42.590 --> 00:59:44.530
at Hopkins, which is in the inner city, it's

00:59:44.530 --> 00:59:46.670
a lot of trauma surgery. So every third night

00:59:46.670 --> 00:59:48.929
for five years, you're taking care of gunshot

00:59:48.929 --> 00:59:51.170
wounds. And we had so many. I mean, Baltimore

00:59:51.170 --> 00:59:54.070
averaged at Hopkins. We averaged at the time.

00:59:54.090 --> 00:59:55.090
I don't know what it's like today. At the time,

00:59:55.110 --> 00:59:58.090
it was 16 penetrating traumas a day. So 16 gunshot

00:59:58.090 --> 01:00:00.639
wounds or stab wounds a day. So as a trainee,

01:00:01.139 --> 01:00:03.280
that's amazing, right? Like that's what you're

01:00:03.280 --> 01:00:05.380
there for. That's why I went specifically to

01:00:05.380 --> 01:00:07.880
that program was to be able to learn to operate

01:00:07.880 --> 01:00:12.179
on people who are shot or stabbed. But, you know,

01:00:12.179 --> 01:00:14.159
it does take its toll on you, right? You just

01:00:14.159 --> 01:00:17.239
feel like there's no end to this. Like, I mean,

01:00:17.300 --> 01:00:21.679
it's a war zone out there. And, yeah, I mean,

01:00:21.699 --> 01:00:23.980
I remember there were times when, you know, you'd

01:00:23.980 --> 01:00:28.099
be a part of like. heroic rescue of somebody

01:00:28.099 --> 01:00:29.920
and they go out the door and they come back a

01:00:29.920 --> 01:00:31.980
week later with a gunshot wound to the head and

01:00:31.980 --> 01:00:34.539
they're dead. And you're like, ugh. I mean, come

01:00:34.539 --> 01:00:38.440
on. So yeah, I was just frustrated with everything

01:00:38.440 --> 01:00:40.380
in medicine when I left. I was super pissed.

01:00:40.480 --> 01:00:43.719
My wife was like, you know, you bitch and moan

01:00:43.719 --> 01:00:45.380
about this so much. I think you have two choices.

01:00:45.579 --> 01:00:47.940
You should either fix it or leave. And I was

01:00:47.940 --> 01:00:50.179
like, well, I can't fix it, so I'm leaving. Um,

01:00:50.400 --> 01:00:52.840
so I left and joined a company called McKinsey

01:00:52.840 --> 01:00:55.579
and was recruited there to do healthcare, but

01:00:55.579 --> 01:00:57.340
ended up because my background's in math doing

01:00:57.340 --> 01:00:59.659
credit risk. And this was right as this was like

01:00:59.659 --> 01:01:01.400
the two years building up to the mortgage meltdown.

01:01:01.860 --> 01:01:04.679
So that became my day job and my night job. I

01:01:04.679 --> 01:01:08.159
mean, that was all consuming for two years. What

01:01:08.159 --> 01:01:10.159
was your night job? No, meaning like we worked

01:01:10.159 --> 01:01:14.320
24 -7. I would run a team of analysts in India

01:01:14.320 --> 01:01:16.239
during the night and then a team in San Francisco

01:01:16.239 --> 01:01:18.900
during the day. And all day, all night, we were

01:01:18.900 --> 01:01:22.579
kind of trying to basically figure out how bad

01:01:22.579 --> 01:01:24.880
this thing was going to be. So you saw it coming?

01:01:25.119 --> 01:01:30.860
Oh, yeah. How far out? So by August of 2007,

01:01:31.179 --> 01:01:35.219
it was clear that the prime market was going

01:01:35.219 --> 01:01:39.099
to implode. And I still remember the day, Thursday,

01:01:39.340 --> 01:01:44.800
November 15th, 2007, is when I had a sense of

01:01:44.800 --> 01:01:47.079
what the magnitude was going to be. The thing

01:01:47.079 --> 01:01:50.420
I didn't know was when. I knew it was going to

01:01:50.420 --> 01:01:54.159
be the next 18 months, but it wasn't like I could

01:01:54.159 --> 01:01:56.300
say in September, which is when it ended up happening,

01:01:56.340 --> 01:01:58.139
right? It was 10 months later. I couldn't say

01:01:58.139 --> 01:01:59.940
in September the bottom is going to fall out.

01:02:00.340 --> 01:02:02.039
Was there anything that could have been done

01:02:02.039 --> 01:02:07.610
that would have mitigated the impact on? The

01:02:07.610 --> 01:02:12.030
economy and society and repossessions. Yeah,

01:02:12.050 --> 01:02:13.670
I mean that's a really good question because

01:02:13.670 --> 01:02:18.250
at the time in November of 07, we – and I want

01:02:18.250 --> 01:02:20.489
to also be clear. The reason we knew with such

01:02:20.489 --> 01:02:23.909
clarity how bad this was is we had a client.

01:02:24.030 --> 01:02:27.329
Our client was the largest – I guess I could

01:02:27.329 --> 01:02:29.449
– probably the largest U .S. home lender in prime

01:02:29.449 --> 01:02:32.849
real estate. And we had all the data. So we're

01:02:32.849 --> 01:02:34.530
able to see stuff that's not publicly available.

01:02:34.989 --> 01:02:37.289
But they didn't see it. But when we went back

01:02:37.289 --> 01:02:39.610
and looked at the analysis, we figured out that

01:02:39.610 --> 01:02:43.389
starting in 2004, starting in the second quarter

01:02:43.389 --> 01:02:47.369
of 2004, every loan that was being originated

01:02:47.369 --> 01:02:50.170
was behaving differently than the entire history

01:02:50.170 --> 01:02:53.590
of mortgages. So this is a really interesting

01:02:53.590 --> 01:02:57.530
analysis. It's called a vintage analysis. If

01:02:57.530 --> 01:03:00.590
you bundle mortgages together and look at how

01:03:00.590 --> 01:03:03.750
they behave, for all of time, they behave in

01:03:03.750 --> 01:03:06.440
a certain way. For about the first 18 months,

01:03:06.699 --> 01:03:10.239
none of them default. So 18 months after a person

01:03:10.239 --> 01:03:12.539
buys a house, historically, there's no chance

01:03:12.539 --> 01:03:18.460
of default. Then defaults start to rise. And

01:03:18.460 --> 01:03:20.840
they rise for about the next two to three years.

01:03:21.400 --> 01:03:24.599
And then they never default again. So the vintage

01:03:24.599 --> 01:03:28.119
curve looks like this. This is cumulative loss

01:03:28.119 --> 01:03:31.280
rate. So what's the reason for that? So the reason

01:03:31.280 --> 01:03:34.610
nobody defaults in the first 18 months. is because

01:03:34.610 --> 01:03:37.369
historically, you really make sure that the person

01:03:37.369 --> 01:03:39.409
who you're selling a house to or giving a loan

01:03:39.409 --> 01:03:42.210
to can afford it. You do a really extensive background

01:03:42.210 --> 01:03:44.869
check on them. And if something's going to go

01:03:44.869 --> 01:03:46.829
wrong, it's unlikely to go wrong in that first

01:03:46.829 --> 01:03:48.750
18 months because of how much you've documented

01:03:48.750 --> 01:03:50.769
their income and employment and stuff like that.

01:03:51.530 --> 01:03:53.510
Then you get into an area where some people are

01:03:53.510 --> 01:03:55.610
going to default. And then the reason three,

01:03:55.730 --> 01:03:58.110
four years out, there's no more defaulting is

01:03:58.110 --> 01:03:59.869
because by that point, people have enough equity

01:03:59.869 --> 01:04:01.969
in their home that if they run into trouble,

01:04:02.070 --> 01:04:03.690
they can always sell the home and the bank gets

01:04:03.690 --> 01:04:06.670
their money back. So again, you go back in time,

01:04:06.769 --> 01:04:09.809
every vintage curve for every single mortgage

01:04:09.809 --> 01:04:14.150
looked like this. Really boring. We went back

01:04:14.150 --> 01:04:16.190
and plotted all the vintage curves going back

01:04:16.190 --> 01:04:18.769
to the year 2000, and they all looked doo, doo,

01:04:18.909 --> 01:04:23.309
doo, doo, doo, doo. And then in Q2 2004, so you

01:04:23.309 --> 01:04:26.230
plot these in three -month vintages, they started

01:04:26.230 --> 01:04:28.449
doing this. Explain to people that are just listening.

01:04:29.170 --> 01:04:31.469
Meaning they started to, instead of going up

01:04:31.469 --> 01:04:34.530
and then flat again, they just kept going up

01:04:34.530 --> 01:04:36.309
and up and up and up and up. But they actually

01:04:36.309 --> 01:04:38.190
did it at an exponential rate. So they didn't

01:04:38.190 --> 01:04:41.170
just go up straight. They would go. up exponentially.

01:04:41.489 --> 01:04:44.309
In other words, there was no end in sight to

01:04:44.309 --> 01:04:46.829
the explosion of losses. So the losses started

01:04:46.829 --> 01:04:49.510
happening immediately and they never slowed down.

01:04:49.570 --> 01:04:52.190
They accelerated with time. So this is looking

01:04:52.190 --> 01:04:56.210
at a chain reaction. And this was one of five

01:04:56.210 --> 01:04:59.289
models that we built to try to understand what

01:04:59.289 --> 01:05:02.730
was going on. And they all pointed in the same

01:05:02.730 --> 01:05:05.769
direction, which was catastrophic outcomes, basically

01:05:05.769 --> 01:05:09.250
for loans that became originated after 2004.

01:05:09.969 --> 01:05:14.210
So by the time we're in 2007, when we show all

01:05:14.210 --> 01:05:16.889
this data to them, obviously they didn't believe

01:05:16.889 --> 01:05:20.050
it, right? They said – well, because the punchline

01:05:20.050 --> 01:05:21.530
was horrible. The punchline was you're going

01:05:21.530 --> 01:05:23.590
to lose more in the next 18 months than you've

01:05:23.590 --> 01:05:25.889
made in the last 10 years. And that was like

01:05:25.889 --> 01:05:31.329
– they were like, that's not possible. And I

01:05:31.329 --> 01:05:34.449
had to be the one to tell the head of the bank,

01:05:34.550 --> 01:05:36.750
right? Because – and even though I was only like

01:05:36.750 --> 01:05:38.960
– There's a hierarchy at McKinsey. There's like

01:05:38.960 --> 01:05:40.980
senior partners, junior partners. And I was just

01:05:40.980 --> 01:05:44.099
like a lowly manager who ran the analysts. And

01:05:44.099 --> 01:05:46.960
the senior partner would normally be the one

01:05:46.960 --> 01:05:49.480
to present such an outrageous finding to the

01:05:49.480 --> 01:05:53.000
board of a bank. But he was like, you should

01:05:53.000 --> 01:05:55.659
present this. And I said, why? And he goes, well,

01:05:55.699 --> 01:05:58.139
you. You understand the technical details of

01:05:58.139 --> 01:06:00.039
the model better. And also, you used to be a

01:06:00.039 --> 01:06:02.099
cancer surgeon, so you're used to giving bad

01:06:02.099 --> 01:06:05.780
news. I think this is not going to go very well.

01:06:05.980 --> 01:06:09.280
So you do this. And it did not go well. It was

01:06:09.280 --> 01:06:13.099
not well received. They could have done something.

01:06:13.159 --> 01:06:14.800
Yes, they absolutely could have done something.

01:06:15.099 --> 01:06:18.760
It wouldn't have stopped all the damage, but

01:06:18.760 --> 01:06:20.360
it would have minimized the damage. Because remember,

01:06:20.559 --> 01:06:23.699
there was still another. 10 months of horrible

01:06:23.699 --> 01:06:26.380
loans being originated, horrible loans being

01:06:26.380 --> 01:06:31.360
securitized, and they were mispriced. I mean,

01:06:31.360 --> 01:06:33.119
ultimately, that's the problem with this, is

01:06:33.119 --> 01:06:35.460
it was just a mispricing game. They didn't know

01:06:35.460 --> 01:06:37.119
how to price the risk of the loans they were

01:06:37.119 --> 01:06:40.579
making. And how many people were predicting this

01:06:40.579 --> 01:06:43.730
the way you were? Well, look, a lot of people

01:06:43.730 --> 01:06:45.610
way smarter than me were predicting it. Remember,

01:06:45.769 --> 01:06:48.329
I was an idiot. All I knew was how bad this was.

01:06:48.389 --> 01:06:51.250
I had no clue how one could make money off this

01:06:51.250 --> 01:06:52.650
because I wasn't thinking about it through that

01:06:52.650 --> 01:06:55.809
lens. Oh, I see. Some folks were. Yeah, if you

01:06:55.809 --> 01:06:57.250
saw The Big Short. Did you ever see that movie?

01:06:57.369 --> 01:06:59.809
No, I did not. Oh, so I think it's called The

01:06:59.809 --> 01:07:03.269
Big Short, right? Is that it, Jamie? Yeah. Great

01:07:03.269 --> 01:07:05.369
movie because it was actually very accurate.

01:07:05.550 --> 01:07:08.929
Who's in that movie? Christian Bale plays the

01:07:08.929 --> 01:07:13.170
guy. That's right. Kind of found the stuff. A

01:07:13.170 --> 01:07:15.190
lot of people are into Steve Carell. Brad Pitt

01:07:15.190 --> 01:07:18.329
was in it, if I recall. It was a really good

01:07:18.329 --> 01:07:20.869
movie. It was actually super accurate in terms

01:07:20.869 --> 01:07:25.409
of describing what was going on. And I remember

01:07:25.409 --> 01:07:27.070
when it came out, I was able to finally explain

01:07:27.070 --> 01:07:29.389
to my wife why we weren't billionaires. Because

01:07:29.389 --> 01:07:31.929
she was always like, dude, you knew this was

01:07:31.929 --> 01:07:34.730
happening, and yet why do I hear about guys like

01:07:34.730 --> 01:07:36.369
John Paulson and all these hedge fund guys that

01:07:36.369 --> 01:07:39.110
made $3 billion on this? And I said... Ah, this

01:07:39.110 --> 01:07:42.010
movie will explain why. If you know this is happening

01:07:42.010 --> 01:07:44.170
and the only instrument you have in your mind

01:07:44.170 --> 01:07:46.449
to make money on it is shorting equities, you

01:07:46.449 --> 01:07:49.230
can't make money. Right. In other words, and

01:07:49.230 --> 01:07:51.050
by the way, ethically, I couldn't have done this

01:07:51.050 --> 01:07:54.739
because I had inside data. I couldn't have done

01:07:54.739 --> 01:07:56.840
anything with that information. But let's just

01:07:56.840 --> 01:07:59.119
assume that I could have shorted all the other

01:07:59.119 --> 01:08:00.719
companies. You couldn't have done anything legally

01:08:00.719 --> 01:08:03.739
or ethically according to your own feeling and

01:08:03.739 --> 01:08:06.300
standards? Certainly not ethically. I don't know

01:08:06.300 --> 01:08:08.519
about legally. But I could never have shorted

01:08:08.519 --> 01:08:10.880
this company that I knew inside and out. But

01:08:10.880 --> 01:08:13.619
I could have shorted others. But even still,

01:08:13.820 --> 01:08:15.960
I wouldn't have made a lot of money because,

01:08:16.060 --> 01:08:19.979
one, shorting equities is really expensive when

01:08:19.979 --> 01:08:21.739
you don't know when the shoe is going to fall.

01:08:23.020 --> 01:08:25.060
Because you have to make a margin call over and

01:08:25.060 --> 01:08:27.800
over and over again. It's not leveraged. Right.

01:08:28.340 --> 01:08:32.000
What these brilliant guys did was they figured

01:08:32.000 --> 01:08:35.020
out that they could short an option on what was

01:08:35.020 --> 01:08:37.600
going to happen. They could basically short an

01:08:37.600 --> 01:08:40.819
insurance contract. And that was super cheap.

01:08:41.260 --> 01:08:43.659
You're leveraged a thousand to one at this point,

01:08:43.699 --> 01:08:46.359
meaning you only have to put a dollar at risk

01:08:46.359 --> 01:08:50.600
to get a thousand dollars back. on something

01:08:50.600 --> 01:08:53.220
you know is going to happen. And you don't have

01:08:53.220 --> 01:08:55.659
to really concern yourself with exactly when

01:08:55.659 --> 01:08:57.880
it's going to happen, at least not in the same

01:08:57.880 --> 01:09:00.659
cost inefficient way that you have to with equities.

01:09:00.840 --> 01:09:03.880
So that's what Michael Burry is the guy's name,

01:09:03.960 --> 01:09:07.779
by the way, that Christian Bale played. That's

01:09:07.779 --> 01:09:09.380
what the Michael Burrys of the world did. And

01:09:09.380 --> 01:09:10.579
there were a handful of these guys that were

01:09:10.579 --> 01:09:12.359
like, we're going to make up these contracts.

01:09:12.560 --> 01:09:15.979
So they went to banks and said, I want you to

01:09:15.979 --> 01:09:18.340
sell me a contract that says this thing is going

01:09:18.340 --> 01:09:20.960
to happen. And the banks were like, Wait, you

01:09:20.960 --> 01:09:22.680
want me to sell you a contract that's saying

01:09:22.680 --> 01:09:25.739
mortgage defaults are going to go up? We'll do

01:09:25.739 --> 01:09:27.359
that all day because that's never happened before.

01:09:27.760 --> 01:09:29.880
Happily. Happily, I'll sell you that contract.

01:09:30.539 --> 01:09:33.340
And they price them horribly, meaning in favor

01:09:33.340 --> 01:09:37.840
of the traders. Right. Yeah. Wow. It's such a

01:09:37.840 --> 01:09:40.939
complicated world. And I don't know how else

01:09:40.939 --> 01:09:45.220
you would sell houses to people unless they had

01:09:45.220 --> 01:09:47.779
enough money to just pay cash for a house, which

01:09:47.779 --> 01:09:50.430
nobody does. How else would you sell a house

01:09:50.430 --> 01:09:52.970
to people? No, I mean, look, it's sort of funny.

01:09:53.029 --> 01:09:56.210
When the whole thing blew up, people said, well,

01:09:56.250 --> 01:09:57.850
this is because interest rates have been too

01:09:57.850 --> 01:10:00.310
low for too long. So Alan Greenspan became the

01:10:00.310 --> 01:10:03.130
very convenient bad guy for all of this. And

01:10:03.130 --> 01:10:04.630
it's true. Interest rates were a little bit too

01:10:04.630 --> 01:10:07.529
low for too long. But we know today that that's

01:10:07.529 --> 01:10:10.010
categorically not the thing that drove it. Low

01:10:10.010 --> 01:10:13.630
interest rates are simply the oxygen that's necessary

01:10:13.630 --> 01:10:15.829
for a fire. But we're sitting in a room right

01:10:15.829 --> 01:10:17.569
now with lots of oxygen. There's no fire going

01:10:17.569 --> 01:10:20.399
on. Clearly, oxygen is not the root cause of

01:10:20.399 --> 01:10:23.060
the problem. The root cause of the problem was

01:10:23.060 --> 01:10:27.640
the absolutely inept lending standards. What

01:10:27.640 --> 01:10:30.899
fostered it was the ability to securitize loans.

01:10:31.220 --> 01:10:34.460
So once you could make a horrible loan and you

01:10:34.460 --> 01:10:36.380
didn't have to live with it on your books, you

01:10:36.380 --> 01:10:38.819
could actually sell it to someone else who didn't

01:10:38.819 --> 01:10:41.539
understand what you were selling, then it just

01:10:41.539 --> 01:10:46.260
became out of control. It was a scary time because

01:10:46.260 --> 01:10:48.520
it was also a scary time where we were really

01:10:48.520 --> 01:10:52.479
worried that banks were going to fail. And there

01:10:52.479 --> 01:10:54.460
was a lot of people that were saying, let them

01:10:54.460 --> 01:10:58.060
fail. The banks should fail because we shouldn't

01:10:58.060 --> 01:11:00.840
prop up these banks. And meanwhile, these people

01:11:00.840 --> 01:11:02.520
that are these CEOs, they're going to give themselves

01:11:02.520 --> 01:11:05.949
bonuses. Which is so insane. Like, even though

01:11:05.949 --> 01:11:08.310
they lost all this money and they had to be bailed

01:11:08.310 --> 01:11:09.569
out by the government, these people still got

01:11:09.569 --> 01:11:12.250
bonuses. And I was like, explain to me why they

01:11:12.250 --> 01:11:14.250
get bonuses. They're like, well, these people

01:11:14.250 --> 01:11:16.170
are very talented and they don't give them bonuses.

01:11:16.229 --> 01:11:17.710
They're going to go somewhere where they do get

01:11:17.710 --> 01:11:19.789
bonuses. I'm like, what the fuck does that mean?

01:11:20.090 --> 01:11:22.289
Like, you guys are a bunch of crooks. Like, how

01:11:22.289 --> 01:11:24.750
did you rig this thing where you fail miserably

01:11:24.750 --> 01:11:27.170
and yet you still get a bonus? I thought you

01:11:27.170 --> 01:11:29.130
only get a bonus if you're successful. Yeah.

01:11:29.329 --> 01:11:32.579
And you got a bonus from... taxpayer money? But

01:11:32.579 --> 01:11:34.979
then someone explained to me that the banks paid

01:11:34.979 --> 01:11:38.220
those loans back quite quickly. Is that true?

01:11:38.380 --> 01:11:40.939
It is. The TARP program made money for the government.

01:11:41.239 --> 01:11:44.159
So the government extracted a pound of flesh

01:11:44.159 --> 01:11:47.199
on those loans. So the people that said that

01:11:47.199 --> 01:11:50.020
we should have just let the banks fail, that's

01:11:50.020 --> 01:11:52.319
not correct. In my opinion, that is not correct.

01:11:52.439 --> 01:11:54.560
The collateral damage of that would have been

01:11:54.560 --> 01:11:58.500
devastating. But your other point is also notable.

01:11:58.640 --> 01:12:01.920
So let's not confound two things. So if you let

01:12:01.920 --> 01:12:04.279
the banks fail, everything goes to hell in a

01:12:04.279 --> 01:12:06.340
handbasket. You have a recession that rivals

01:12:06.340 --> 01:12:11.220
that of 1929. That's a bad scenario. The way

01:12:11.220 --> 01:12:14.319
that the TARP program was engineered was to prevent

01:12:14.319 --> 01:12:16.399
that from happening. But also it wasn't a gift.

01:12:16.520 --> 01:12:18.779
It was you're going to pay these loans back,

01:12:18.899 --> 01:12:22.810
which they did. But there still, in my opinion,

01:12:22.869 --> 01:12:25.329
could have been and should have been more clauses

01:12:25.329 --> 01:12:28.289
in that program that permitted some of the really

01:12:28.289 --> 01:12:31.090
flagrant abuses that came down the line, like

01:12:31.090 --> 01:12:33.270
the AIG guys getting bonuses that they probably

01:12:33.270 --> 01:12:36.710
shouldn't have got. In other words, I think the

01:12:36.710 --> 01:12:40.909
government basically made the argument, which

01:12:40.909 --> 01:12:42.350
was, well, if we don't pay these people, they're

01:12:42.350 --> 01:12:43.810
not going to stick around and we need them to

01:12:43.810 --> 01:12:47.789
clean up this mess. And my view is I bet enough

01:12:47.789 --> 01:12:49.989
good people would have stuck around without having.

01:12:50.380 --> 01:12:52.939
to pay so many people so much. And by the way,

01:12:52.939 --> 01:12:54.520
the people that really needed the bonuses were

01:12:54.520 --> 01:12:56.079
not the CEOs. Like they're not the ones doing

01:12:56.079 --> 01:13:00.340
the work. Right. Right. Yeah. And so you do this

01:13:00.340 --> 01:13:02.260
and how do you change? Oh yeah. So, so yeah.

01:13:02.319 --> 01:13:03.800
So basically actually everything for me changed

01:13:03.800 --> 01:13:05.279
when my daughter was born. So my daughter was

01:13:05.279 --> 01:13:09.979
born 13 years ago and I'm 35 and I mean, I'm

01:13:09.979 --> 01:13:12.119
sure you can relate to this, but at least for

01:13:12.119 --> 01:13:16.100
me, that was the moment when I first cared about

01:13:16.100 --> 01:13:18.819
living longer. I just, it was the first moment

01:13:18.819 --> 01:13:22.909
I had a thought beyond myself and thought like,

01:13:22.949 --> 01:13:25.390
oh my God. I remember when my wife was pregnant,

01:13:25.449 --> 01:13:27.069
I was like not that excited about it. I was kind

01:13:27.069 --> 01:13:30.130
of like, we had a cat at the time and I loved

01:13:30.130 --> 01:13:32.050
this cat. And I remember saying to my wife, I'm

01:13:32.050 --> 01:13:33.909
like, I don't know if I'm going to love our daughter

01:13:33.909 --> 01:13:36.310
as much as I love Midnight, our little cat. My

01:13:36.310 --> 01:13:38.850
wife was like, are you crazy? And of course,

01:13:38.850 --> 01:13:41.130
the second Olivia was born, I was like obsessed

01:13:41.130 --> 01:13:43.989
with her. And then I was like, I got to figure

01:13:43.989 --> 01:13:46.270
this out because every male in my family has

01:13:46.270 --> 01:13:48.470
died of heart disease except one. Really? I have

01:13:48.470 --> 01:13:51.170
horrible genes for heart disease. What causes

01:13:51.170 --> 01:13:54.109
heart disease genetically? Like, what is it?

01:13:54.329 --> 01:13:57.689
Well, the most common genetic driver of heart

01:13:57.689 --> 01:14:00.149
disease is something called LP little a. So one

01:14:00.149 --> 01:14:03.670
in about 10 people, somewhere between one in

01:14:03.670 --> 01:14:05.869
eight and one in 12. So call it one in 10 people.

01:14:05.930 --> 01:14:09.489
10 % of people have a gene called LPA that makes

01:14:09.489 --> 01:14:13.479
too much of this. lipoprotein called LpA, which

01:14:13.479 --> 01:14:17.239
you've heard of LDL, right? So LDL is this atherogenic

01:14:17.239 --> 01:14:22.399
lipoprotein. LpA is an LDL that has another protein

01:14:22.399 --> 01:14:25.779
wrapped on it called ApoA, and it makes it much

01:14:25.779 --> 01:14:30.860
worse. So the single most common genetic The

01:14:30.860 --> 01:14:34.020
single most common hereditary driver of cardiovascular

01:14:34.020 --> 01:14:36.319
disease is elevated LP little a. And the tragic

01:14:36.319 --> 01:14:37.819
thing is most doctors don't even know what it

01:14:37.819 --> 01:14:40.159
is. So this is one of the things I have more

01:14:40.159 --> 01:14:42.439
podcasts on this topic than any other because

01:14:42.439 --> 01:14:45.039
it's inexcusable to me that a patient doesn't

01:14:45.039 --> 01:14:47.180
know that they have elevated LP little a. This

01:14:47.180 --> 01:14:48.659
is a screening test we should do on children.

01:14:49.100 --> 01:14:53.359
So that's number one. After that, it gets much

01:14:53.359 --> 01:14:58.399
more complicated. Heart disease is wildly polygenic.

01:14:58.909 --> 01:15:02.670
So LPA is one rare example that's not polygenic,

01:15:02.670 --> 01:15:04.930
meaning there is just one gene that drives LPA.

01:15:05.310 --> 01:15:07.270
But when you start to get into something like

01:15:07.270 --> 01:15:09.670
familial hypercholesterolemia, which is also

01:15:09.670 --> 01:15:12.850
kind of common, that's any set of genes. And

01:15:12.850 --> 01:15:15.489
there are over 3 ,000 mutations that produce

01:15:15.489 --> 01:15:19.930
elevated LDL through one form or another. That

01:15:19.930 --> 01:15:23.010
becomes another huge driver of genetic inheritance.

01:15:23.510 --> 01:15:26.069
But what's scary, at least for someone like me,

01:15:26.170 --> 01:15:28.829
is It's really clear when you look at my family

01:15:28.829 --> 01:15:30.970
history, heart disease is a problem. I don't

01:15:30.970 --> 01:15:33.649
have anything recognizable, meaning I don't have

01:15:33.649 --> 01:15:36.489
LP little a, I don't have familial hypercholesterolemia.

01:15:36.729 --> 01:15:40.970
I don't have any of the few known genes that

01:15:40.970 --> 01:15:43.840
are really driving this. My cholesterol levels

01:15:43.840 --> 01:15:45.659
were never really that heavy to begin with. My

01:15:45.659 --> 01:15:48.399
LDL, which is kind of an irrelevant, stupid metric

01:15:48.399 --> 01:15:50.199
anyway, but even if you looked at my ApoB, which

01:15:50.199 --> 01:15:51.680
is the metric you're supposed to be looking at,

01:15:51.779 --> 01:15:54.939
was never through the roof. But when I was 35,

01:15:55.100 --> 01:15:58.420
I went and had a calcium scan. So it's a CT scan,

01:15:58.500 --> 01:16:00.920
looks at your heart. And I had a score of six.

01:16:01.520 --> 01:16:04.159
Now six is not a high number on a calcium scan,

01:16:04.359 --> 01:16:07.000
but when you're 35, that places you at the 90th

01:16:07.000 --> 01:16:10.800
percentile. So that was like the, I got to figure

01:16:10.800 --> 01:16:12.739
this shit out. I'm going to devote the rest of

01:16:12.739 --> 01:16:15.699
my life to understanding how to not die of heart

01:16:15.699 --> 01:16:18.039
disease. And then ultimately, so my first focus

01:16:18.039 --> 01:16:20.000
became an obsession with cardiovascular disease,

01:16:20.199 --> 01:16:23.579
which lasted about four years. And then I realized

01:16:23.579 --> 01:16:25.680
like, well, there's no benefit in not dying of

01:16:25.680 --> 01:16:26.939
cardiovascular disease if you're going to still

01:16:26.939 --> 01:16:29.199
die of cancer or dementia or something like that.

01:16:29.300 --> 01:16:32.060
So then my obsession and interest just expanded

01:16:32.060 --> 01:16:34.680
through all of that. What did you do to keep

01:16:34.680 --> 01:16:37.079
yourself from being at the risk of dying from

01:16:37.079 --> 01:16:40.260
cardiovascular disease? Well, I mean, it came

01:16:40.260 --> 01:16:42.800
down to reverse engineering what is driving cardiovascular

01:16:42.800 --> 01:16:44.859
disease, which is the most ubiquitous killer,

01:16:44.979 --> 01:16:47.720
right? So there's no developed nation for which

01:16:47.720 --> 01:16:49.659
cardiovascular disease isn't the number one killer.

01:16:50.380 --> 01:16:53.739
Really? Yeah. So hands down. Only developed nations.

01:16:53.979 --> 01:16:55.880
Yeah. Once you get out of developed nations,

01:16:55.899 --> 01:16:58.500
infections and other things sort of start to

01:16:58.500 --> 01:17:00.859
overcome that. Do they suffer from cardiovascular

01:17:00.859 --> 01:17:04.439
diseases when you're dealing with tribal communities?

01:17:04.479 --> 01:17:07.840
Yeah, definitely not to the same extent. What's

01:17:07.840 --> 01:17:11.220
the factor? Well, I mean, I think there's a couple

01:17:11.220 --> 01:17:12.739
things, right? One could be they're not living

01:17:12.739 --> 01:17:15.020
as long, so we're not seeing it as much. And

01:17:15.020 --> 01:17:17.119
we don't really have great autopsy data on people

01:17:17.119 --> 01:17:20.060
who are dying in their 40s and 50s from infections

01:17:20.060 --> 01:17:23.680
and other things like that. But, you know, it

01:17:23.680 --> 01:17:25.439
could be, you know, that obviously they just

01:17:25.439 --> 01:17:28.060
don't have the same toxins in their food system

01:17:28.060 --> 01:17:29.380
that we do, right? They're probably not eating

01:17:29.380 --> 01:17:31.880
half the refined crap that we eat. Yeah, that's

01:17:31.880 --> 01:17:33.119
what I was going to get to. Like how much of

01:17:33.119 --> 01:17:34.699
an impact do you think that stuff does have?

01:17:34.920 --> 01:17:37.279
I think it has a significant impact for sure.

01:17:37.380 --> 01:17:40.739
Yeah. So atherosclerosis is really driven by

01:17:40.739 --> 01:17:42.699
lipoproteins first and foremost. So anything

01:17:42.699 --> 01:17:45.380
that carries this ApoB protein on it, so that's

01:17:45.380 --> 01:17:49.380
an LDL, an LP little a, a VLDL, that's the synquanon.

01:17:49.500 --> 01:17:52.399
That is the necessary but not sufficient element

01:17:52.399 --> 01:17:56.119
to drive atherosclerosis. Anything that impairs

01:17:56.119 --> 01:17:58.140
endothelial function, so high blood pressure,

01:17:58.300 --> 01:18:01.119
high glucose, high insulin, high homocysteine,

01:18:01.159 --> 01:18:05.159
all that stuff, problematic. Anything that amplifies

01:18:05.159 --> 01:18:09.319
inflammation. So basically I just said, okay,

01:18:09.340 --> 01:18:11.779
we're just going to take a no holds barred approach

01:18:11.779 --> 01:18:16.699
to addressing all of those things. And that's

01:18:16.699 --> 01:18:19.079
why I sit here today and I can say, look, between

01:18:19.079 --> 01:18:21.539
now and when I'm 60, the one thing I know I'm

01:18:21.539 --> 01:18:23.699
not going to die of is atherosclerosis. I would

01:18:23.699 --> 01:18:26.319
say that in the next 10 years, my greatest risk

01:18:26.319 --> 01:18:29.460
of death is motor vehicle accident and cancer.

01:18:29.640 --> 01:18:31.460
Those would be the two hardest things to mitigate.

01:18:32.079 --> 01:18:34.159
Now, why is it so difficult to mitigate cancer?

01:18:35.500 --> 01:18:38.859
Well, for one, of the big diseases, it's the

01:18:38.859 --> 01:18:40.939
one for which I think we have the least idea

01:18:40.939 --> 01:18:42.859
of what the risk factors are. So the big three

01:18:42.859 --> 01:18:46.159
in terms of death is atherosclerosis, cancer,

01:18:46.319 --> 01:18:51.439
and neurodegeneration. With cancer, it's also

01:18:51.439 --> 01:18:56.720
very polygenic. What's that mean? Lots of genes

01:18:56.720 --> 01:18:59.579
are involved. So if I did a genetic test, if

01:18:59.579 --> 01:19:02.520
I had your entire genome in front of me, it wouldn't

01:19:02.520 --> 01:19:04.800
tell me much about your risk for cancer. So the

01:19:04.800 --> 01:19:07.880
genes that are driving it are also not germline.

01:19:07.939 --> 01:19:10.300
They're somatic, meaning they're inherited mutations.

01:19:10.939 --> 01:19:14.380
So one of the few things we know about cancer

01:19:14.380 --> 01:19:18.159
is the earlier you can detect it, the better.

01:19:18.880 --> 01:19:22.960
That's a truism that is becoming almost impossible

01:19:22.960 --> 01:19:25.920
to argue. So you're always better off finding

01:19:25.920 --> 01:19:28.760
a cancer when you have 100 million cells that

01:19:28.760 --> 01:19:31.350
are cancerous versus... 10 billion cells that

01:19:31.350 --> 01:19:35.750
are cancerous. And our tools for screening are

01:19:35.750 --> 01:19:37.289
somewhat limited. Now, they're getting better.

01:19:37.369 --> 01:19:38.909
So to your question earlier, what's one of the

01:19:38.909 --> 01:19:41.050
things I'm excited about? I think liquid biopsies

01:19:41.050 --> 01:19:43.270
are something in the last year that we have become

01:19:43.270 --> 01:19:45.350
very excited about. So all of our patients get

01:19:45.350 --> 01:19:47.350
these things called liquid biopsies, which is

01:19:47.350 --> 01:19:49.649
a blood test that measures something called cell

01:19:49.649 --> 01:19:54.409
-free DNA. So we're looking for tumor DNA in

01:19:54.409 --> 01:19:58.189
the bloodstream. So meaning at very low levels.

01:19:58.810 --> 01:20:02.029
of tumor burden, you can still pick it up by

01:20:02.029 --> 01:20:04.689
getting some of this cell -free DNA floating

01:20:04.689 --> 01:20:08.090
around your bloodstream. So it's literally like

01:20:08.090 --> 01:20:10.869
you take a tube of blood and you can say, oh,

01:20:10.930 --> 01:20:13.010
there's actually like some pancreatic cancer

01:20:13.010 --> 01:20:15.829
here or some colon cancer here or breast cancer

01:20:15.829 --> 01:20:18.069
here. And then you go looking for that cancer.

01:20:18.210 --> 01:20:21.109
Wow. Because there are false positives, of course,

01:20:21.130 --> 01:20:22.989
when you do these things. So you can't think

01:20:22.989 --> 01:20:25.229
of screening as just one thing you do. It's got

01:20:25.229 --> 01:20:27.630
to be layered, kind of like a Swiss cheese approach.

01:20:27.829 --> 01:20:29.649
You want to have as many pieces of Swiss cheese

01:20:29.649 --> 01:20:31.470
lined up as possible so that one and only one

01:20:31.470 --> 01:20:33.630
pencil fits through the hole. And you know you

01:20:33.630 --> 01:20:36.750
get a signal with your cancer detection. So this

01:20:36.750 --> 01:20:41.850
one test just from a tube of blood, how new is

01:20:41.850 --> 01:20:45.130
this? I don't even know if it's technically approved

01:20:45.130 --> 01:20:48.930
yet. I know that we're doing it. Certain physicians

01:20:48.930 --> 01:20:51.590
are being allowed to do it in the context of

01:20:51.590 --> 01:20:55.430
having a very comprehensive approach to follow

01:20:55.430 --> 01:21:01.289
up with patients. So because our patients are

01:21:01.289 --> 01:21:03.409
doing it in the context of a billion other things,

01:21:03.510 --> 01:21:05.750
so there's not as much of a concern from the

01:21:05.750 --> 01:21:07.670
part of the FDA. But I don't think this is fully

01:21:07.670 --> 01:21:10.770
FDA approved yet. But it's very recent. We've

01:21:10.770 --> 01:21:13.369
been doing it only six months. Wow. I mean, I

01:21:13.369 --> 01:21:15.569
did mine in April. I was probably one of the

01:21:15.569 --> 01:21:18.420
first people to do it. Did you get nervous? I

01:21:18.420 --> 01:21:22.180
mean, no. I mean, I was kind of like, look, it's

01:21:22.180 --> 01:21:24.159
so much more important to me to know I have cancer

01:21:24.159 --> 01:21:25.939
than to put my head in the sand and not know.

01:21:26.119 --> 01:21:28.939
Right. Right. Of course. But every time I go

01:21:28.939 --> 01:21:31.579
and get this diffusion -weighted image MRI, which

01:21:31.579 --> 01:21:34.779
is this very particular type of MRI that's uniquely

01:21:34.779 --> 01:21:37.539
tuned to detect cancer and getting a blood test

01:21:37.539 --> 01:21:39.819
like this or getting a colonoscopy, which I'm

01:21:39.819 --> 01:21:42.420
very aggressive with, all of these things, yeah,

01:21:42.439 --> 01:21:45.699
there's always a moment of just let me come out

01:21:45.699 --> 01:21:51.779
clean. Yeah. God. So you have these concerns

01:21:51.779 --> 01:21:54.039
about longevity. You have these concerns about

01:21:54.039 --> 01:21:56.380
cardiovascular health and cancer. And so what

01:21:56.380 --> 01:22:02.800
prompts you to start your practice and re -emerge

01:22:02.800 --> 01:22:06.420
into medicine? I just – there was nothing else

01:22:06.420 --> 01:22:08.220
I could think about. Like at the time, I had

01:22:08.220 --> 01:22:11.119
left that one company where I was doing all the

01:22:11.119 --> 01:22:13.359
energy stuff or where I was doing all the finance

01:22:13.359 --> 01:22:15.079
stuff and I went to join an energy company. So

01:22:15.079 --> 01:22:19.979
now I was like working on like a renewable form

01:22:19.979 --> 01:22:23.340
of oil. So – and it was really – Renewable form

01:22:23.340 --> 01:22:26.399
of oil? Yeah. So this is a company that was using

01:22:26.399 --> 01:22:30.079
– we were using algae and genetically programming

01:22:30.079 --> 01:22:34.340
the algae to spit out a fungible form of oil.

01:22:35.429 --> 01:22:39.989
Wow. So meaning it would produce a distillate,

01:22:39.989 --> 01:22:42.369
a cut of distillate that could be refined into

01:22:42.369 --> 01:22:46.409
gasoline and jet fuel. Whoa. From algae? Yeah.

01:22:46.489 --> 01:22:51.000
How effective is that? Well, ultimately it could

01:22:51.000 --> 01:22:53.500
not be done at cost. I mean, I left after four

01:22:53.500 --> 01:22:55.159
years. That company went on for another four

01:22:55.159 --> 01:22:58.500
years, but it just couldn't be done at the price

01:22:58.500 --> 01:23:00.380
of where oil was, which at the time was like

01:23:00.380 --> 01:23:02.420
50 bucks a barrel. I wanted to talk to you about,

01:23:02.439 --> 01:23:04.020
this is a little bit of a deviation, but it's

01:23:04.020 --> 01:23:06.399
not really. I wanted to talk to you about Theranos

01:23:06.399 --> 01:23:11.319
because I am fucking completely obsessed with

01:23:11.319 --> 01:23:14.539
that lady and her scam company. Dude, did you

01:23:14.539 --> 01:23:16.600
know that I was almost the chief medical officer

01:23:16.600 --> 01:23:21.039
of that company? No. Yeah, dude. So in 2006,

01:23:21.640 --> 01:23:25.260
my McKinsey office, which was in Palo Alto, was

01:23:25.260 --> 01:23:27.979
on the same – was on Page Mill, which was one

01:23:27.979 --> 01:23:29.680
street over from where Theranos was located.

01:23:30.039 --> 01:23:32.199
So Theranos at the time was a super small company.

01:23:32.859 --> 01:23:36.600
So a good friend of mine, his father -in -law

01:23:36.600 --> 01:23:39.880
was on the board and knew Elizabeth Holmes very

01:23:39.880 --> 01:23:43.619
well. He was her professor at Stanford. And the

01:23:43.619 --> 01:23:45.659
company was small at that time. It was like maybe

01:23:45.659 --> 01:23:48.939
30 people there, something like that. And he

01:23:48.939 --> 01:23:54.680
said, look, I want you, my friend, to potentially

01:23:54.680 --> 01:23:56.859
look at this company because they could really

01:23:56.859 --> 01:23:58.899
use a CFO. And he was in private equity at the

01:23:58.899 --> 01:24:02.239
time, really smart guy. And to make it long story

01:24:02.239 --> 01:24:04.100
short, I got introduced to Elizabeth. So I went

01:24:04.100 --> 01:24:05.779
down and had lunch with her one day. Did you

01:24:05.779 --> 01:24:07.779
ever catch her talking in her real voice? You

01:24:07.779 --> 01:24:10.260
know, it's so funny. I don't remember. I met

01:24:10.260 --> 01:24:12.479
her. later and she already had the fake voice

01:24:12.479 --> 01:24:15.140
but I can't remember that day what her voice

01:24:15.140 --> 01:24:17.399
was like I wish I could remember but you know

01:24:17.399 --> 01:24:19.220
it's like 15 years ago right I would remember

01:24:19.220 --> 01:24:21.680
if it was weird like I don't think I don't think

01:24:21.680 --> 01:24:23.079
it was I think it must have been talked like

01:24:23.079 --> 01:24:25.399
this I would say what is going on yeah yeah have

01:24:25.399 --> 01:24:27.819
you had throat cancer I don't I don't what are

01:24:27.819 --> 01:24:29.859
you doing I think she was must she must have

01:24:29.859 --> 01:24:31.420
been talking a normal voice but here's what interested

01:24:31.420 --> 01:24:34.399
me I sat down in the office and she pulled out

01:24:34.399 --> 01:24:36.500
a black box that was I don't know if it was called

01:24:36.500 --> 01:24:38.260
Edison at the time or if it was the precursor

01:24:38.260 --> 01:24:42.000
to what would become Edison Diagnostics is not

01:24:42.000 --> 01:24:45.159
something I knew a ton about, but I'd spent two

01:24:45.159 --> 01:24:47.319
years at the NIH, and I certainly understand

01:24:47.319 --> 01:24:49.739
how chemical reagents work, and I understand

01:24:49.739 --> 01:24:52.359
how chemical assays work. And I know how, for

01:24:52.359 --> 01:24:55.300
example, an ELISA works. An ELISA is a type of

01:24:55.300 --> 01:24:58.199
assay that you do to measure something, but it

01:24:58.199 --> 01:25:01.119
requires a lot of washing and rinsing and repeating.

01:25:01.520 --> 01:25:04.319
And I know that many biomarkers that are of interest,

01:25:04.579 --> 01:25:06.899
for example, something like insulin, if you want

01:25:06.899 --> 01:25:09.979
to measure a person's insulin level, you have

01:25:09.979 --> 01:25:13.779
to do these types of assays, right? So I was

01:25:13.779 --> 01:25:15.399
saying to her, you know, Elizabeth, I don't understand

01:25:15.399 --> 01:25:17.699
how you could put a drop of blood in here and

01:25:17.699 --> 01:25:20.220
get anything out that's more interesting than

01:25:20.220 --> 01:25:23.000
glucose, hemoglobin, sodium, and potassium, the

01:25:23.000 --> 01:25:25.340
really simple things that can work, you know,

01:25:25.340 --> 01:25:27.800
that can be measured off a drop of blood. And

01:25:27.800 --> 01:25:29.140
she kind of gave me some answer. And I said,

01:25:29.180 --> 01:25:30.859
well, can I see the inside of the box? And she

01:25:30.859 --> 01:25:32.979
said, absolutely not. And I said, well, I've

01:25:32.979 --> 01:25:34.880
signed an NDA, you know, I had to sign an NDA

01:25:34.880 --> 01:25:36.720
to get in the building. So she was like, no.

01:25:37.479 --> 01:25:41.380
So I just decided I wasn't interested in the

01:25:41.380 --> 01:25:42.979
company because I couldn't get sort of straight

01:25:42.979 --> 01:25:45.279
answers from her. So I ended up not doing it.

01:25:45.340 --> 01:25:49.619
So fast forward to 20, this was 2006. Fast forward

01:25:49.619 --> 01:25:54.020
to 2015, she's now on the cover of Forbes. And

01:25:54.020 --> 01:25:57.899
you're like, hmm. Well, no, no. I remember one

01:25:57.899 --> 01:25:59.479
day saying to my wife, because she was on the

01:25:59.479 --> 01:26:02.310
cover of Forbes. And the company was valued a

01:26:02.310 --> 01:26:05.069
little over $9 billion. And I said to my wife,

01:26:05.170 --> 01:26:07.590
do you know how much we would be worth if I had

01:26:07.590 --> 01:26:10.289
taken that job now? And she's like, how much?

01:26:10.310 --> 01:26:14.550
And I told her, and she's like, good God. And

01:26:14.550 --> 01:26:19.789
so I'm at the Vanity Fair event in San Francisco.

01:26:19.970 --> 01:26:22.729
I didn't know it at the time. This was a week

01:26:22.729 --> 01:26:25.140
before the Wall Street Journal article. would

01:26:25.140 --> 01:26:27.439
fall, John Cario's article that was the one that

01:26:27.439 --> 01:26:29.460
kind of unraveled all of Theranos in October

01:26:29.460 --> 01:26:34.340
of 2015. And how did he figure it out? How did

01:26:34.340 --> 01:26:36.100
this one guy figure out that it was all... So

01:26:36.100 --> 01:26:39.439
I haven't read his book, Bad Blood, but I saw

01:26:39.439 --> 01:26:41.079
the documentary. So, you know, that's like a

01:26:41.079 --> 01:26:42.840
poor man's version of it, but basically just

01:26:42.840 --> 01:26:45.800
interviewing people who were formerly employees

01:26:45.800 --> 01:26:48.460
of the company. Oh, so they were bean spillers.

01:26:48.619 --> 01:26:50.439
Yeah. And they were basically like, yeah, this

01:26:50.439 --> 01:26:54.180
is a total scam. Oh my God. And... So sure enough,

01:26:54.220 --> 01:26:57.359
I'm at this reception and she's the speaker of

01:26:57.359 --> 01:26:59.880
the event. So it's a four -day conference and

01:26:59.880 --> 01:27:03.880
she's the one everyone is there to see. So I'm

01:27:03.880 --> 01:27:07.239
sitting at a table and I'm having a cocktail

01:27:07.239 --> 01:27:11.840
and she walks up and I said, hey, Elizabeth,

01:27:11.939 --> 01:27:13.060
you probably don't remember me. She goes, no,

01:27:13.079 --> 01:27:14.939
I remember you exactly. And she remembered my

01:27:14.939 --> 01:27:17.180
name and even remembered how I had been introduced

01:27:17.180 --> 01:27:19.420
to her. I was like really blown away. We exchanged

01:27:19.420 --> 01:27:22.289
pleasantries. She gave me her card. And then

01:27:22.289 --> 01:27:23.909
a week later it all unraveled. And it's really

01:27:23.909 --> 01:27:25.949
funny. I still have the card. You should frame

01:27:25.949 --> 01:27:29.470
it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She must have known that

01:27:29.470 --> 01:27:30.810
the shit was hitting the fan. No, no, she totally

01:27:30.810 --> 01:27:32.149
did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because the shit was hitting

01:27:32.149 --> 01:27:35.689
the fan six months earlier. What does one do?

01:27:36.250 --> 01:27:39.449
And it's not like you can liquidate, right? If

01:27:39.449 --> 01:27:42.630
you're worth $9 billion but it's all stock and

01:27:42.630 --> 01:27:45.649
you know the product is nonsense, you can't even

01:27:45.649 --> 01:27:48.149
get out. Well, it's a private company, so at

01:27:48.149 --> 01:27:50.130
best, you know, she could have along the way

01:27:50.130 --> 01:27:53.109
been doing secondaries off her take. Oh, so it

01:27:53.109 --> 01:27:55.949
wasn't even, yeah. Yeah. Jesus Christ, that was

01:27:55.949 --> 01:27:59.850
wild. It's just when you, I'm obsessed with this

01:27:59.850 --> 01:28:01.930
podcast that's out now called The Dropout, and

01:28:01.930 --> 01:28:04.550
they update weekly with the trial results. Oh,

01:28:04.569 --> 01:28:06.829
I need to check that out. It's great. Yeah, yeah.

01:28:06.970 --> 01:28:08.510
I'm obsessed. So tell me this, how is it looking?

01:28:08.750 --> 01:28:11.350
Is the prosecution looking like they're going

01:28:11.350 --> 01:28:14.460
to win this? Oh, yeah. Yeah, they have falsified

01:28:14.460 --> 01:28:17.760
documents. They pretended that they got a document

01:28:17.760 --> 01:28:20.880
from Pfizer. They put Pfizer's name on a document.

01:28:21.079 --> 01:28:24.399
And it was an internal document. And it was basically

01:28:24.399 --> 01:28:27.579
substantiating the machine, the Edison machine,

01:28:27.840 --> 01:28:30.739
and all the possibilities that it could. She

01:28:30.739 --> 01:28:34.319
also lied about military use. I remember that.

01:28:34.319 --> 01:28:37.199
Department of Defense contracts. Yeah, they have

01:28:37.199 --> 01:28:40.619
her on the stand lying. or have her on the stand

01:28:40.619 --> 01:28:43.600
admitting that she lied. Because there was recordings.

01:28:43.659 --> 01:28:46.460
Has she taken the stand yet? I believe so. I

01:28:46.460 --> 01:28:50.539
mean, there's definitely moments in the podcast

01:28:50.539 --> 01:28:53.039
where she's being interviewed, where she's being

01:28:53.039 --> 01:28:55.239
forced to answer questions. Oh, but this might

01:28:55.239 --> 01:28:57.720
have been the civil deposition. Could have been.

01:28:57.739 --> 01:28:59.319
Yeah, maybe. I don't know, but this is in the

01:28:59.319 --> 01:29:02.560
middle of the current trial. So I'm not sure.

01:29:03.119 --> 01:29:05.520
Because it's a really well -produced podcast,

01:29:05.640 --> 01:29:08.199
and it has narration and music and all this stuff.

01:29:08.380 --> 01:29:11.840
The Dropout. Yes. It's very good. And it also

01:29:11.840 --> 01:29:14.319
predates. See, they picked up when the trial

01:29:14.319 --> 01:29:17.680
came back. So the beginning episodes of The Dropout

01:29:17.680 --> 01:29:21.899
all detail the scam and all detail all the stuff

01:29:21.899 --> 01:29:23.500
that was going on. The people that were working,

01:29:23.619 --> 01:29:25.680
they were slowly figuring out, like, what the

01:29:25.680 --> 01:29:28.770
fuck are we doing here? And then... It went away

01:29:28.770 --> 01:29:31.310
for a while and then came back during the trial.

01:29:31.489 --> 01:29:34.229
So now it's detailing all the things that the

01:29:34.229 --> 01:29:37.569
prosecution is finding. Also, it must be. No,

01:29:37.670 --> 01:29:39.569
it's not the civil trial. It is the current trial

01:29:39.569 --> 01:29:42.310
because they were specifically discussing these

01:29:42.310 --> 01:29:47.189
documents that they had put Pfizer's label label

01:29:47.189 --> 01:29:50.210
on. So they made it look like this document was

01:29:50.210 --> 01:29:52.770
coming from Pfizer, like saying, oh, this stuff

01:29:52.770 --> 01:29:55.149
is amazing. But really, it was just internal

01:29:55.149 --> 01:29:59.899
from Theranos. wild i one of the things that

01:29:59.899 --> 01:30:03.579
i love about it uh is um i'm always fascinated

01:30:03.579 --> 01:30:07.640
by con artists and and cult leaders and and people

01:30:07.640 --> 01:30:10.300
who manage to pull the wool over people's eyes

01:30:10.300 --> 01:30:14.619
but when people do it in a clumsy way and still

01:30:14.619 --> 01:30:18.260
get really far like she was clumsy she wasn't

01:30:18.260 --> 01:30:20.859
just a little clumsy she was like she was a it

01:30:20.859 --> 01:30:23.260
was i you know how i got obsessed with this this

01:30:23.260 --> 01:30:26.189
is really weird She was giving a speech, and

01:30:26.189 --> 01:30:28.670
this was before I had any idea that there was

01:30:28.670 --> 01:30:30.149
anything wrong with the company. Oh, so this

01:30:30.149 --> 01:30:33.489
is pre-'15. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Before she got

01:30:33.489 --> 01:30:38.010
caught, she was giving some speech at some women's

01:30:38.010 --> 01:30:43.770
group, some exceptional women were all getting

01:30:43.770 --> 01:30:46.810
together, and she gave this speech. And this

01:30:46.810 --> 01:30:51.250
speech was so bad that I was fascinated. I was

01:30:51.250 --> 01:30:54.060
like, that's a moron. Like, this is not a smart

01:30:54.060 --> 01:30:57.899
person. Like, this is a dumb, clunky speech.

01:30:58.500 --> 01:31:01.199
Because I'm a professional orator. I mean, that's

01:31:01.199 --> 01:31:03.420
what I do. I talk, you know. And so when I see

01:31:03.420 --> 01:31:06.460
someone that's talking and she's basically, these

01:31:06.460 --> 01:31:09.560
women are amazing. All you amazing women. I'm

01:31:09.560 --> 01:31:12.720
just so pro amazing women. Is that the speech?

01:31:12.920 --> 01:31:17.140
Let me hear this dumb speech. I am so incredibly

01:31:17.140 --> 01:31:22.079
humbled and so honored to be with. this incredible

01:31:22.079 --> 01:31:24.600
group of women. I want to just take a minute

01:31:24.600 --> 01:31:28.159
to say, especially to the young women in the

01:31:28.159 --> 01:31:34.460
room here, do everything you can to be the best

01:31:34.460 --> 01:31:38.220
in science and math and engineering. It's our

01:31:38.220 --> 01:31:42.319
actions that will determine this new stereotype

01:31:42.319 --> 01:31:46.340
around women being the best in science and technology

01:31:46.340 --> 01:31:49.699
and engineering. And it's that. That our little

01:31:49.699 --> 01:31:52.399
girls will see when they start to think about

01:31:52.399 --> 01:31:55.739
who do they want to be when they grow up. Okay,

01:31:55.800 --> 01:31:58.640
I saw that. I'm like, that's a moron. That's

01:31:58.640 --> 01:32:01.479
a moron. You want women to be the best at science

01:32:01.479 --> 01:32:03.640
and engineering and math? Like, what the fuck

01:32:03.640 --> 01:32:07.359
are you talking about? You want one gender to

01:32:07.359 --> 01:32:09.600
be the best at science and engineering and math?

01:32:09.800 --> 01:32:12.699
And you want women just do your best to be the

01:32:12.699 --> 01:32:14.359
best? I was like, oh my god, that's an idiot.

01:32:15.739 --> 01:32:19.300
And so I got obsessed with her. So when that

01:32:19.300 --> 01:32:21.399
was going on, that's when I got obsessed. And

01:32:21.399 --> 01:32:24.220
then when the fucking scam got released, was

01:32:24.220 --> 01:32:26.920
it Washington Post? Wall Street Journal. I was

01:32:26.920 --> 01:32:30.380
like, aha! I fucking called it. I knew something

01:32:30.380 --> 01:32:33.079
was off. I remember watching that and going,

01:32:33.220 --> 01:32:37.020
how? How? I would hear Steve Jobs talk. The one

01:32:37.020 --> 01:32:39.880
thing I could never understand, but it wasn't

01:32:39.880 --> 01:32:42.159
enough. I just didn't care enough. But in retrospect,

01:32:42.520 --> 01:32:46.680
it was so obvious. There was not a single person

01:32:46.680 --> 01:32:49.380
who understood the laboratory space on her board.

01:32:50.420 --> 01:32:54.079
Oh. So remember, her board was the who's who.

01:32:54.420 --> 01:32:57.600
You had General Mattis. You had Henry Kissinger.

01:32:57.840 --> 01:33:02.100
You had Dick Kovacevic. I mean, she had the most

01:33:02.100 --> 01:33:04.979
all -star corporate board in the history of boards.

01:33:05.859 --> 01:33:08.279
Not one of these guys knew the difference between

01:33:08.279 --> 01:33:11.760
a pipette and a microscope. Ooh. Like, that's

01:33:11.760 --> 01:33:14.760
a red flag. Yeah, that's... That's smart, though.

01:33:15.279 --> 01:33:18.060
That's the smart con. Right. The other thing

01:33:18.060 --> 01:33:23.760
that got me was the affectation, the detail of

01:33:23.760 --> 01:33:28.520
the wardrobe and the outfit. She was the little

01:33:28.520 --> 01:33:31.579
Jobs. Yeah, she was clearly a little. But when

01:33:31.579 --> 01:33:35.159
you heard Steve Jobs talk, Steve Jobs had a vision.

01:33:35.359 --> 01:33:37.640
Here's my vision. This is what I think can happen.

01:33:37.779 --> 01:33:39.180
And he would talk and he'd go, well, that's a

01:33:39.180 --> 01:33:43.569
brilliant, completely obsessed man. Like, this

01:33:43.569 --> 01:33:47.050
person is very brilliant, and it makes sense

01:33:47.050 --> 01:33:49.189
that this is the head of this incredibly innovative

01:33:49.189 --> 01:33:52.090
company. When I heard her talk, I was like, who's

01:33:52.090 --> 01:33:54.470
this idiot that you have talking? Like, this

01:33:54.470 --> 01:33:57.010
is not a person that spent a lot of time thinking,

01:33:57.170 --> 01:34:01.109
right? If you went to college for a long period

01:34:01.109 --> 01:34:03.569
of time and really worked on your, you know,

01:34:03.569 --> 01:34:07.590
your grammar and your understanding of the correct

01:34:07.590 --> 01:34:11.329
use of language to inspire and challenge people's

01:34:11.329 --> 01:34:13.390
ideas, that's not the fucking speech you'd give.

01:34:13.630 --> 01:34:16.449
Right? That was pretty bad. It was terrible.

01:34:16.949 --> 01:34:20.069
But it wasn't just terrible. It was clunky. And

01:34:20.069 --> 01:34:22.729
there was something about it for me that, like,

01:34:22.789 --> 01:34:25.810
it made me think, like, what's going on here?

01:34:26.380 --> 01:34:27.939
That doesn't make any sense. And I thought, well,

01:34:27.979 --> 01:34:31.239
maybe she's just awkward when she speaks publicly.

01:34:31.760 --> 01:34:33.760
You know, you have those initial impressions,

01:34:33.800 --> 01:34:36.279
and you go, well, maybe I'm just fucking reading

01:34:36.279 --> 01:34:38.659
into it wrong. Because I've been wrong before,

01:34:38.840 --> 01:34:45.920
but not that time. So I'm fascinated that she

01:34:45.920 --> 01:34:48.359
wouldn't let you look into the box. Because I

01:34:48.359 --> 01:34:50.159
guess if you looked into the box, you would immediately

01:34:50.159 --> 01:34:52.359
be able to be. I don't know that I would have.

01:34:52.399 --> 01:34:54.300
I don't want to overstate my credentials. I'm

01:34:54.300 --> 01:34:56.819
not a clinical chemist. She could have duped

01:34:56.819 --> 01:34:59.300
me, I'm sure. But she didn't... I mean, and again,

01:34:59.420 --> 01:35:02.060
we're under NDA. We're talking about me joining

01:35:02.060 --> 01:35:04.279
her company as a chief medical officer. Like,

01:35:04.279 --> 01:35:06.359
how are you not going to let me see inside this

01:35:06.359 --> 01:35:09.180
freaking box? Like, what do you want? How am

01:35:09.180 --> 01:35:10.939
I going to do my job? How could she have duped

01:35:10.939 --> 01:35:14.399
you, though, if she's not technically astute?

01:35:14.460 --> 01:35:16.420
Like, she doesn't really understand it. I don't

01:35:16.420 --> 01:35:18.699
know if she could. I mean, look, she... Presumably

01:35:18.699 --> 01:35:20.699
duped people smarter than me, right? I think

01:35:20.699 --> 01:35:23.180
she duped. This is what drives me crazy. I think

01:35:23.180 --> 01:35:25.560
she duped people from the image. I think they

01:35:25.560 --> 01:35:28.020
wanted to believe. They wanted to believe that

01:35:28.020 --> 01:35:31.779
there was this female wunderkind who left Stanford

01:35:31.779 --> 01:35:34.859
at 19 years old, dropped out of school, and figured

01:35:34.859 --> 01:35:37.039
out this amazing technology and along the way

01:35:37.039 --> 01:35:39.859
became, at least until she got busted, the richest

01:35:39.859 --> 01:35:43.239
self -made woman ever. She was worth, I think,

01:35:43.260 --> 01:35:44.420
like her own personal. Four and a half billion.

01:35:44.720 --> 01:35:50.119
Crazy. Crazy. And she just faked it. And one

01:35:50.119 --> 01:35:52.359
of the ways she got busted was people from college

01:35:52.359 --> 01:35:54.640
that she went to school with were like, why are

01:35:54.640 --> 01:35:56.619
you talking like that? Like, what's happening?

01:35:56.779 --> 01:35:58.640
And then people started hearing that that wasn't

01:35:58.640 --> 01:36:00.279
her real voice. And then people started, like,

01:36:00.399 --> 01:36:04.100
rumors and murmurs. There's so many layers to

01:36:04.100 --> 01:36:07.619
that story. Oh, man, no doubt. Yeah, it's a fascinating

01:36:07.619 --> 01:36:10.659
one. It really is. It's such an interesting story.

01:36:11.300 --> 01:36:15.420
So for you. when all that was going down, that

01:36:15.420 --> 01:36:18.560
must have been incredibly sweet. Because now

01:36:18.560 --> 01:36:20.939
you don't have to think, man, I missed out on

01:36:20.939 --> 01:36:23.460
all that money. Yeah, for sure. And I was also,

01:36:23.539 --> 01:36:26.220
I felt a little bit validated. Like, okay, there

01:36:26.220 --> 01:36:27.779
was a reason she didn't want to show me the inside

01:36:27.779 --> 01:36:31.979
of the box. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It might have

01:36:31.979 --> 01:36:33.960
been empty. It literally might have been empty.

01:36:34.220 --> 01:36:38.500
There was candy in there. It's a giant little

01:36:38.500 --> 01:36:41.520
thing. Dude, she got so many people. She got

01:36:41.520 --> 01:36:45.800
Betsy DeVos for like $100 million. And poor General

01:36:45.800 --> 01:36:47.979
Mattis. The guy didn't have two nickels to rub

01:36:47.979 --> 01:36:49.300
together when he gets out of the military. He

01:36:49.300 --> 01:36:52.039
put like a couple hundred K in or something obscene

01:36:52.039 --> 01:36:56.939
for him. Yeah. Fuck. Crazy. Whenever someone

01:36:56.939 --> 01:36:59.060
comes to me, like some guy came to me with some

01:36:59.060 --> 01:37:01.000
crazy, I mean, I don't know if it's real, so

01:37:01.000 --> 01:37:03.119
I don't want to talk about it, like say it specifically,

01:37:03.220 --> 01:37:06.079
but if it's true, it sounds like this guy's going

01:37:06.079 --> 01:37:09.500
to revolutionize a form of travel. And so he's

01:37:09.500 --> 01:37:11.819
telling me about this. I was like, wow. And then

01:37:11.819 --> 01:37:13.600
I said to my business manager who was with me

01:37:13.600 --> 01:37:16.300
at the time, I go, don't ever forget about Theranos.

01:37:17.319 --> 01:37:19.579
Whenever someone tells you something, the moment

01:37:19.579 --> 01:37:21.920
someone tells me, I go, yeah, yeah. When it happens,

01:37:22.140 --> 01:37:24.989
I'll believe you. I don't want to be involved

01:37:24.989 --> 01:37:27.829
in any groundbreaking shit before it actually

01:37:27.829 --> 01:37:30.510
– especially in some area where I'm completely

01:37:30.510 --> 01:37:32.750
ignorant. And what am I going to do? Just start

01:37:32.750 --> 01:37:34.930
going to school? Try to figure out engineering?

01:37:35.569 --> 01:37:37.909
Think of this guy as saying something that's

01:37:37.909 --> 01:37:41.390
actually possible and plausible? No, can't do

01:37:41.390 --> 01:37:46.229
it. Not interested, buddy. So for you, though

01:37:46.229 --> 01:37:49.079
– When it did come out, though, there had to

01:37:49.079 --> 01:37:52.140
be like a cool feeling of satisfaction. There

01:37:52.140 --> 01:37:54.640
had to be a little something there. I mean, the

01:37:54.640 --> 01:37:56.739
first person I called was my buddy, the guy who

01:37:56.739 --> 01:37:58.460
had introduced me to her way back. And I was

01:37:58.460 --> 01:38:00.600
like, dude, what are the dinner conversations

01:38:00.600 --> 01:38:03.340
like? And he's like, oh, dude, it's not good.

01:38:03.439 --> 01:38:05.399
Because his father -in -law was still in the

01:38:05.399 --> 01:38:09.300
believing camp. Oh, no. Oh, yeah. They talk about

01:38:09.300 --> 01:38:13.439
him in the. Yeah. Oh, fuck. So it was. So he

01:38:13.439 --> 01:38:17.340
got duped long after the jig was up. Right? Yeah.

01:38:17.979 --> 01:38:22.460
Again, I don't know the details, but I was like,

01:38:22.560 --> 01:38:25.399
man, fuck. It's good that we didn't do that.

01:38:25.640 --> 01:38:29.159
It's one of the great scams of our time because

01:38:29.159 --> 01:38:32.100
you have to wonder how they ever thought they

01:38:32.100 --> 01:38:34.239
were going to get away with it. There really

01:38:34.239 --> 01:38:37.600
was no technology. There really was nothing that

01:38:37.600 --> 01:38:39.479
was capable of doing what they were saying it

01:38:39.479 --> 01:38:42.180
was going to be able to be done. Yeah, there's

01:38:42.180 --> 01:38:43.819
an interesting psychology there, right? Yeah.

01:38:44.939 --> 01:38:48.359
On any given day, it's not a crisis, right? Like

01:38:48.359 --> 01:38:50.739
you can always fake it for one more day, right?

01:38:50.840 --> 01:38:53.340
Right. So what's the end? Like what's the end

01:38:53.340 --> 01:38:56.720
game? How do they not have cancer? If stress

01:38:56.720 --> 01:38:59.000
gives you cancer, imagine the stress of like

01:38:59.000 --> 01:39:01.579
duping people out of nine billion and you're

01:39:01.579 --> 01:39:04.260
sitting around knowing that your voice is fake

01:39:04.260 --> 01:39:06.819
and you're wearing a black turtleneck and people

01:39:06.819 --> 01:39:08.239
that you went to college with are like, hey,

01:39:08.260 --> 01:39:10.060
that bitch doesn't even talk like that. I hear

01:39:10.060 --> 01:39:12.520
the text messages between her and Sonny were

01:39:12.520 --> 01:39:14.819
pretty funny because I read an article that said.

01:39:15.390 --> 01:39:18.029
If you really want to incentivize people to not

01:39:18.029 --> 01:39:20.750
commit crime, just let them know that all of

01:39:20.750 --> 01:39:22.649
their cheesy text messages are going to be made

01:39:22.649 --> 01:39:26.569
public. Oh, wow. Apparently there's just some

01:39:26.569 --> 01:39:30.130
super embarrassing idiotic text messages. He

01:39:30.130 --> 01:39:33.050
drove a Lamborghini to the office too, which

01:39:33.050 --> 01:39:37.829
is also hilarious. It's just so crazy. But it

01:39:37.829 --> 01:39:39.930
just shows you that there is this incredible

01:39:39.930 --> 01:39:44.670
market. for people to try to optimize their health

01:39:44.670 --> 01:39:46.510
and try to figure out what's wrong with them.

01:39:46.590 --> 01:39:49.430
And if you can make it more simple than it actually

01:39:49.430 --> 01:39:51.770
is, which is really, it's like, I don't even

01:39:51.770 --> 01:39:53.369
think that's the other thing about it. It wasn't

01:39:53.369 --> 01:39:56.069
that fricking interesting, right? Like who cares

01:39:56.069 --> 01:39:58.010
if there's a little box that I can put a drop

01:39:58.010 --> 01:40:00.250
of blood on that tells me what my CBC and chem

01:40:00.250 --> 01:40:02.310
seven and, you know, pick your other panelists.

01:40:02.369 --> 01:40:04.659
Like that's not that interesting. Okay, yes,

01:40:04.739 --> 01:40:06.779
it's a little more convenient than going to LabCorp

01:40:06.779 --> 01:40:08.899
and giving a tube of blood. What's interesting

01:40:08.899 --> 01:40:11.119
is what you do with that knowledge. What do you

01:40:11.119 --> 01:40:13.680
do with that information? Well, I think what

01:40:13.680 --> 01:40:16.420
was interesting for what she was providing was

01:40:16.420 --> 01:40:19.539
Safeway was going to buy into it. Was it Walgreens?

01:40:19.659 --> 01:40:22.520
Yeah, Walgreens. And so Walgreens, I believe,

01:40:22.579 --> 01:40:24.720
backed out. I think they realized somewhere along

01:40:24.720 --> 01:40:27.140
the line that she was full of shit. And there

01:40:27.140 --> 01:40:30.869
was some... text messages and emails that they

01:40:30.869 --> 01:40:33.810
read out from the CEO because he had retired

01:40:33.810 --> 01:40:35.729
before it ever came to fruition and then they

01:40:35.729 --> 01:40:38.630
backed out of it. But Safeway wanted to put them

01:40:38.630 --> 01:40:40.409
all in the stores and so you could be able to

01:40:40.409 --> 01:40:43.729
go shopping for food, get your blood taken, a

01:40:43.729 --> 01:40:46.449
little tiny pinprick and find out if anything's

01:40:46.449 --> 01:40:48.149
wrong with you right there and then. But again,

01:40:48.270 --> 01:40:50.050
it still comes down to having somebody that can

01:40:50.050 --> 01:40:51.869
actually tell you what's wrong. And by the way,

01:40:51.930 --> 01:40:53.510
the stuff that was relevant, it's not like they're

01:40:53.510 --> 01:40:54.989
going to measure LP little a. It's not like they're

01:40:54.989 --> 01:40:56.670
going to tell you your ApoE4 status. It's not

01:40:56.670 --> 01:40:58.510
like they're going to tell you like of the 10

01:40:58.510 --> 01:41:00.569
most relevant things that I would look at in

01:41:00.569 --> 01:41:02.050
somebody's blood, they weren't measuring any

01:41:02.050 --> 01:41:04.970
of them. Is ApoE4 the stuff that makes you more

01:41:04.970 --> 01:41:09.010
susceptible to CTE? It probably makes you more

01:41:09.010 --> 01:41:10.710
susceptible to CTE. It definitely makes you more

01:41:10.710 --> 01:41:13.350
susceptible to Alzheimer's disease. But today

01:41:13.350 --> 01:41:15.930
we know it's more nuanced. We know that there

01:41:15.930 --> 01:41:18.329
are other genes that can. be protective and can

01:41:18.329 --> 01:41:21.289
completely abrogate the effect of APOE4, which

01:41:21.289 --> 01:41:23.729
is the, that's the, that's the gene that's the

01:41:23.729 --> 01:41:26.689
more risky one. When you hear about, I don't

01:41:26.689 --> 01:41:29.289
know what the gene is, but there is a gene that

01:41:29.289 --> 01:41:32.489
predisposes someone to breast cancer. BRCA. Is

01:41:32.489 --> 01:41:34.449
that what it is? Yeah. And when Angelina Jolie

01:41:34.449 --> 01:41:37.489
actually had her breasts removed as a preemptive

01:41:37.489 --> 01:41:39.930
measure, does that make sense to you? Yeah. Really?

01:41:40.090 --> 01:41:44.279
Yeah. Wow. So it's that. It's depending on there's

01:41:44.279 --> 01:41:47.439
two variants of the gene, but it can have up

01:41:47.439 --> 01:41:50.840
to a 80 or 90 percent lifetime incidence of breast

01:41:50.840 --> 01:41:54.520
cancer. Wow. And what's even more frightening

01:41:54.520 --> 01:41:59.180
is the ovarian cancer, because, you know, a woman

01:41:59.180 --> 01:42:02.199
suffers far more from a prophylactic oophorectomy

01:42:02.199 --> 01:42:04.840
than a mastectomy. And from an endocrine perspective,

01:42:05.060 --> 01:42:07.260
I mean, socially, obviously, there's challenges

01:42:07.260 --> 01:42:09.680
of a mastectomy. But from an endocrine perspective,

01:42:09.920 --> 01:42:12.140
when you if you took a 35 year old woman and

01:42:12.140 --> 01:42:13.800
just took her ovaries out, you're putting her

01:42:13.800 --> 01:42:17.319
in menopause. Wow. So the consequences are huge.

01:42:17.520 --> 01:42:20.420
As far as the way she feels. Oh, my God. It's

01:42:20.420 --> 01:42:25.899
devastating. Yeah. Yeah. The that gene. um, that

01:42:25.899 --> 01:42:28.300
predisposes a woman to breast cancer, would you

01:42:28.300 --> 01:42:30.939
say it was again? BRCA. How common is that? Oh,

01:42:30.960 --> 01:42:33.340
that's a good question. Um, it's not that common.

01:42:33.420 --> 01:42:37.739
It is the, it is not remotely, uh, common as

01:42:37.739 --> 01:42:39.140
far as the leading, you know, I mean, breast

01:42:39.140 --> 01:42:40.800
cancer is obviously a pretty common breast cancer

01:42:40.800 --> 01:42:44.739
is a pretty common cancer to women. Um, you know,

01:42:44.760 --> 01:42:48.039
I would guess that 5 % maybe would be BRCA associated,

01:42:48.079 --> 01:42:51.920
if not less. And is her action of doing that,

01:42:51.939 --> 01:42:56.010
is that a common move now? I'm certainly seeing

01:42:56.010 --> 01:43:00.149
more women who are BRCA positive undergoing prophylactic

01:43:00.149 --> 01:43:03.729
mastectomy. And when they undergo this prophylactic

01:43:03.729 --> 01:43:08.630
mastectomy, they actually can retain the initial

01:43:08.630 --> 01:43:11.829
appearance of breast now. So they do it knowing

01:43:11.829 --> 01:43:13.289
that they're going to do that, and then they

01:43:13.289 --> 01:43:15.590
replace it with a breast. Yep, they put it in.

01:43:16.229 --> 01:43:19.949
That's right. Fuck, that's one thing that dudes

01:43:19.949 --> 01:43:23.590
don't have to think about, breast cancer. Yeah.

01:43:23.630 --> 01:43:26.109
I mean, I guess the equivalent for males is prostate

01:43:26.109 --> 01:43:29.010
cancer in terms of like a gender specific cancer.

01:43:30.170 --> 01:43:32.789
And so if you look like lung cancer is the number

01:43:32.789 --> 01:43:36.149
one killer for both men and women in terms of

01:43:36.149 --> 01:43:39.329
death rate. More than heart attacks? Oh, no,

01:43:39.369 --> 01:43:41.229
no. I'm sorry. Within cancers. Heart attack is

01:43:41.229 --> 01:43:44.489
still number one. But, you know, breast and prostate

01:43:44.489 --> 01:43:47.949
are. very high up on the list of killing along

01:43:47.949 --> 01:43:49.489
with colon cancer. Those are sort of your big

01:43:49.489 --> 01:43:53.310
three. Prostate cancer is a bit complicated because

01:43:53.310 --> 01:43:57.630
every man will die with prostate cancer. Some

01:43:57.630 --> 01:44:00.770
will die from it. Whoa, every man will die with

01:44:00.770 --> 01:44:02.029
some? Yeah, if you live long enough, absolutely.

01:44:02.329 --> 01:44:05.970
By the time you're 50, like you and I, there's

01:44:05.970 --> 01:44:08.630
a greater than 50 % chance one of us has prostate

01:44:08.630 --> 01:44:12.489
cancer right now. Holy shit. So if you and I

01:44:12.489 --> 01:44:14.439
were killed in a car accident tomorrow, and they

01:44:14.439 --> 01:44:16.279
took our prostates out and sectioned them up,

01:44:16.380 --> 01:44:18.960
the likelihood that they would find prostate

01:44:18.960 --> 01:44:21.720
cancer cells in one of us is at least 50%. And

01:44:21.720 --> 01:44:25.680
those cells may or may not be a problem. Statistically

01:44:25.680 --> 01:44:26.960
speaking, they're not going to be a problem.

01:44:27.100 --> 01:44:29.420
Because remember this, with the exception of

01:44:29.420 --> 01:44:33.000
the brain, you don't die from cancer unless it

01:44:33.000 --> 01:44:36.279
spreads. So the brain is the one exception to

01:44:36.279 --> 01:44:38.779
that rule. If you have brain cancer, it can kill

01:44:38.779 --> 01:44:41.520
you just staying in your brain. But if you have

01:44:41.520 --> 01:44:44.500
lung cancer, or let's use prostate cancer or

01:44:44.500 --> 01:44:47.659
breast cancer, a woman never dies because breast

01:44:47.659 --> 01:44:50.819
cancer invades her breast. She dies because it

01:44:50.819 --> 01:44:53.260
spreads to her brain, her bones, her lungs, her

01:44:53.260 --> 01:44:55.659
liver. Same with prostate cancer. Prostate cancer

01:44:55.659 --> 01:44:57.539
almost always spreads to the bone, and that's

01:44:57.539 --> 01:44:59.500
the only time you die. So if prostate cancer

01:44:59.500 --> 01:45:02.500
stays in the prostate, There's no death. If someone

01:45:02.500 --> 01:45:05.760
has a very small amount of prostate cancer, is

01:45:05.760 --> 01:45:08.300
there a thing that they can do to mitigate its

01:45:08.300 --> 01:45:11.359
spread? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So you can remove

01:45:11.359 --> 01:45:13.619
the prostate surgically. This is a technique

01:45:13.619 --> 01:45:15.979
that was pioneered by a guy named Pat Walsh at

01:45:15.979 --> 01:45:19.159
Johns Hopkins in the 1980s. And it wasn't that

01:45:19.159 --> 01:45:21.380
taking out the prostate was hard. It was taking

01:45:21.380 --> 01:45:23.899
it out while preserving sexual function was really

01:45:23.899 --> 01:45:28.000
hard because the neurovascular bundle of Walsh,

01:45:28.000 --> 01:45:30.840
which is now bears his name. which is what controls

01:45:30.840 --> 01:45:34.119
erectile function, wraps around the thing you're

01:45:34.119 --> 01:45:36.300
trying to cut out. Oh, Jesus. So it's like how

01:45:36.300 --> 01:45:39.460
do you cut this gland out without taking out

01:45:39.460 --> 01:45:41.939
all of the nervous tissue that you need to maintain

01:45:41.939 --> 01:45:44.920
an erection? And so basically prior to Walsh,

01:45:44.920 --> 01:45:47.979
you were almost guaranteed to never be able to

01:45:47.979 --> 01:45:49.720
get an erection after you had your prostate taken

01:45:49.720 --> 01:45:52.479
out. So you were staring down the barrel of not

01:45:52.479 --> 01:45:56.180
two very attractive choices. How many guys went

01:45:56.180 --> 01:46:01.069
out in their shield? I'm keeping my heart on.

01:46:01.109 --> 01:46:05.050
I'll die young. Yeah. So the goal is to basically

01:46:05.050 --> 01:46:09.250
identify a guy with prostate cancer who has the

01:46:09.250 --> 01:46:12.409
variant that's going to spread. So today, this

01:46:12.409 --> 01:46:14.710
has been, I mean, there's been so much progress

01:46:14.710 --> 01:46:16.350
in this field. So we use a blood test called

01:46:16.350 --> 01:46:19.909
a 4K score. So you know what a PSA is. You've

01:46:19.909 --> 01:46:21.569
probably had your PSA checked a bunch of times.

01:46:22.430 --> 01:46:25.609
PSA by itself is not a great blood test. You

01:46:25.609 --> 01:46:27.949
have to use more information than just the PSA.

01:46:27.970 --> 01:46:30.970
You have to know the PSA velocity and the PSA

01:46:30.970 --> 01:46:33.310
density. So the velocity is what's the rate of

01:46:33.310 --> 01:46:36.789
change of the PSA, and the density is dividing

01:46:36.789 --> 01:46:39.720
the PSA by the prostate volume. So if you get

01:46:39.720 --> 01:46:41.760
an MRI or an ultrasound, you can tell the volume

01:46:41.760 --> 01:46:44.319
of the prostate in grams or the volume, and then

01:46:44.319 --> 01:46:46.399
you can turn it into grams. So you normalize

01:46:46.399 --> 01:46:49.880
PSA to volume or mass, and you have a density.

01:46:50.079 --> 01:46:52.380
And those two things become more suggestive.

01:46:52.380 --> 01:46:56.060
So once the PSA starts to look a little bit suspicious,

01:46:56.239 --> 01:46:59.220
and once it gets over about four, we do this

01:46:59.220 --> 01:47:01.720
4K blood test, which is another form of liquid

01:47:01.720 --> 01:47:04.880
biopsy. And that gives you a much more interesting

01:47:04.880 --> 01:47:08.850
number. It basically tells you. what's the probability

01:47:08.850 --> 01:47:11.449
that this person is going to have metastatic

01:47:11.449 --> 01:47:14.550
prostate cancer, not just prostate cancer? And

01:47:14.550 --> 01:47:18.409
if that 4K number is above a certain threshold,

01:47:18.510 --> 01:47:21.949
I think 7 .5%, the probability that they're going

01:47:21.949 --> 01:47:24.789
to have metastatic prostate cancer approaches

01:47:24.789 --> 01:47:29.090
85%, 90%. What are your thoughts on ketogenic

01:47:29.090 --> 01:47:35.069
diets in relation to cancer? been a lot of articles

01:47:35.069 --> 01:47:38.010
written about the idea that cancer needs glucose

01:47:38.010 --> 01:47:40.590
to survive. And then if you can keep your body

01:47:40.590 --> 01:47:43.449
functioning off of ketones, it's less likely

01:47:43.449 --> 01:47:45.909
that you get cancer. Does that make sense? Yeah,

01:47:45.949 --> 01:47:47.609
no, definitely. I mean, you know, I was on a

01:47:47.609 --> 01:47:49.310
ketogenic diet for three years. Yeah, I know

01:47:49.310 --> 01:47:52.750
you were. And so I was super steeped in all of

01:47:52.750 --> 01:47:55.829
this stuff. What made you get off of it? It became

01:47:55.829 --> 01:47:58.449
just really difficult. I mean, I was so strict.

01:47:58.550 --> 01:48:00.609
I didn't take a day off. I took one day off in

01:48:00.609 --> 01:48:04.069
three years. But the stuff I had to give up,

01:48:04.149 --> 01:48:06.609
like even, like one of my favorite things is

01:48:06.609 --> 01:48:10.630
stir fry. Like I love huge curry stir fry that

01:48:10.630 --> 01:48:13.850
I make. And even something that's that, it's

01:48:13.850 --> 01:48:15.529
just vegetables, but it was still too much to

01:48:15.529 --> 01:48:17.449
keep in, it was too much carbohydrate to stay

01:48:17.449 --> 01:48:21.229
in ketosis. So I just kind of missed. And also

01:48:21.229 --> 01:48:24.890
at that point I was switching more from ultra

01:48:24.890 --> 01:48:27.369
distance swimming and stuff into shorter distance

01:48:27.369 --> 01:48:29.250
swimming. Like I was doing more, you know, pool

01:48:29.250 --> 01:48:32.720
racing and more. just shorter distance stuff.

01:48:33.359 --> 01:48:35.979
Also on the bike, I was becoming, going less

01:48:35.979 --> 01:48:38.300
from kind of ultra distance bike stuff to, you

01:48:38.300 --> 01:48:40.899
know, like a 20 kilometer race or a 40 kilometer

01:48:40.899 --> 01:48:44.100
race. So as you move towards that new energy

01:48:44.100 --> 01:48:46.680
system, you just need more carbohydrates. But

01:48:46.680 --> 01:48:49.180
anyway, to your question, I think there's an

01:48:49.180 --> 01:48:51.359
awesome theoretical argument for it, but it's

01:48:51.359 --> 01:48:52.939
also important to understand that even when you're

01:48:52.939 --> 01:48:54.859
on a ketogenic diet, your glucose isn't zero.

01:48:56.600 --> 01:48:59.399
So it's all about probabilistic reduction, right?

01:49:00.000 --> 01:49:02.560
It's keeping insulin lower. That probably has

01:49:02.560 --> 01:49:04.359
a greater effect than keeping glucose lower.

01:49:04.600 --> 01:49:07.100
Because if you're on a ketogenic diet and you're

01:49:07.100 --> 01:49:08.760
not on a ketogenic diet, we're talking about

01:49:08.760 --> 01:49:12.039
a difference of one millimolar in glucose. So

01:49:12.039 --> 01:49:15.680
it's probably more the presence of the ketone,

01:49:15.680 --> 01:49:17.659
the reduction of the insulin, if anything, that's

01:49:17.659 --> 01:49:19.899
having a role. What I think is most interesting

01:49:19.899 --> 01:49:22.159
is not just a ketogenic diet. It's when you combine

01:49:22.159 --> 01:49:24.760
it with a drug called a PI3 kinase inhibitor.

01:49:25.199 --> 01:49:28.680
which is a drug that blocks a very important

01:49:28.680 --> 01:49:33.140
pathway for cancer to grow, but has one escape

01:49:33.140 --> 01:49:36.140
valve, which is it raises insulin. So that's

01:49:36.140 --> 01:49:38.260
a bad thing if you're trying to minimize cancer.

01:49:38.960 --> 01:49:42.640
So when you combine a ketogenic diet with a PI3

01:49:42.640 --> 01:49:46.079
kinase inhibitor, at least in animal studies,

01:49:46.260 --> 01:49:48.199
which is about the extent of where this has been

01:49:48.199 --> 01:49:50.340
studied so far, the results look really good.

01:49:50.420 --> 01:49:52.739
Because PI3 kinase inhibitors by themselves have

01:49:52.739 --> 01:49:55.310
not panned out. Even though theoretically they

01:49:55.310 --> 01:49:58.510
should, they should be amazing for cancer. They

01:49:58.510 --> 01:50:00.869
haven't been great. And it's been speculated

01:50:00.869 --> 01:50:02.670
that that's because of that escape valve, which

01:50:02.670 --> 01:50:04.829
is it pops off to a higher insulin level. So

01:50:04.829 --> 01:50:06.970
when you layer on top of that a ketogenic diet,

01:50:07.090 --> 01:50:09.210
it seems to work really well. And anecdotally,

01:50:09.229 --> 01:50:12.850
one of my good friends from med school, his wife

01:50:12.850 --> 01:50:15.970
has metastatic breast cancer. She was diagnosed.

01:50:17.760 --> 01:50:19.920
God, probably seven or eight years ago. So metastatic

01:50:19.920 --> 01:50:22.399
breast cancer is a death sentence. It's unsurvivable.

01:50:22.819 --> 01:50:25.979
She was enrolled in a clinical trial in Boston

01:50:25.979 --> 01:50:29.819
that was using PI3K inhibitors. And so she got

01:50:29.819 --> 01:50:32.760
one of these drugs. She's the only woman to this

01:50:32.760 --> 01:50:35.239
day that's still alive. Whoa. And she went on

01:50:35.239 --> 01:50:37.640
a ketogenic diet. Now, again. How many years

01:50:37.640 --> 01:50:41.119
ago? Seven or eight. And what is the usual lifespan

01:50:41.119 --> 01:50:44.539
of someone who gets diagnosed? I mean, five years,

01:50:44.659 --> 01:50:48.949
maybe. Less, probably. Is she deteriorating?

01:50:48.949 --> 01:50:52.270
Is she maintaining? No, she literally has this

01:50:52.270 --> 01:50:55.569
one little foci of metastatic disease in her

01:50:55.569 --> 01:51:00.430
hip still. So this one little nubbin of potential

01:51:00.430 --> 01:51:04.869
cancer inside her hip bone, but it's stayed static.

01:51:05.010 --> 01:51:06.350
I mean, it's causing some structural issues.

01:51:07.409 --> 01:51:10.770
She, you know, obviously her hips weaker, but

01:51:10.770 --> 01:51:15.840
it's kind of amazing. Her story is actually kind

01:51:15.840 --> 01:51:18.479
of one of the things that's got some of the people

01:51:18.479 --> 01:51:20.239
who develop these drugs thinking about this idea

01:51:20.239 --> 01:51:23.119
of combining ketogenic diets with PI3K inhibitors

01:51:23.119 --> 01:51:27.060
to try to squash the insulin level and minimize

01:51:27.060 --> 01:51:31.279
basically that escape route for cancer. Wow.

01:51:32.239 --> 01:51:33.979
And there's other ways to do this pharmacologically,

01:51:34.079 --> 01:51:35.579
right? Like you could argue combining it with

01:51:35.579 --> 01:51:37.800
metformin or something else that's going to lower

01:51:37.800 --> 01:51:41.109
insulin would also potentially work. And metformin

01:51:41.109 --> 01:51:44.310
is that anti -aging drug that's fairly controversial

01:51:44.310 --> 01:51:46.670
as well too, right? Yeah, I don't know if it's

01:51:46.670 --> 01:51:48.850
that controversial. I mean it's – It is in terms

01:51:48.850 --> 01:51:51.470
of human performance. Well, yeah. So the reason

01:51:51.470 --> 01:51:53.149
I stopped taking it three years ago – I took

01:51:53.149 --> 01:51:56.989
it for probably eight years. But three years

01:51:56.989 --> 01:52:01.329
ago I stopped because it does impair mitochondrial

01:52:01.329 --> 01:52:04.250
function at least at the level that I can measure

01:52:04.250 --> 01:52:06.729
it. So I measure my lactate levels when I'm exercising

01:52:06.729 --> 01:52:11.429
in a certain type of exercise every day. And

01:52:11.429 --> 01:52:15.310
I'm basically trying to generate the highest

01:52:15.310 --> 01:52:17.670
amount of power I can generate on a bike while

01:52:17.670 --> 01:52:20.869
keeping lactate below two millimole. And that's

01:52:20.869 --> 01:52:23.409
like the limit of my mitochondrial throughput

01:52:23.409 --> 01:52:25.890
as my kind of my maximum aerobic efficiency.

01:52:26.390 --> 01:52:30.130
And when I was on metformin, I just noticed like

01:52:30.130 --> 01:52:33.210
I was hitting that lactate level higher than

01:52:33.210 --> 01:52:35.380
I believed I should hit it. Just based on my

01:52:35.380 --> 01:52:38.640
fitness. Is lactate, is that lactic acid? Is

01:52:38.640 --> 01:52:41.699
it the same thing? Synonymous, yeah. So you would

01:52:41.699 --> 01:52:44.680
develop more with metformin. That's right. So

01:52:44.680 --> 01:52:47.579
it would make your performance less effective.

01:52:47.619 --> 01:52:51.100
But what if you took the metformin after exercise?

01:52:51.159 --> 01:52:53.399
It stuck around too long. So I had tried all

01:52:53.399 --> 01:52:55.800
that stuff. I would take the metformin immediately.

01:52:55.859 --> 01:52:57.159
Exactly as you said, I'd take it immediately

01:52:57.159 --> 01:52:59.840
after exercise, but it would still be in my system.

01:52:59.899 --> 01:53:02.770
24 hours later. Yeah. So I then said, well, what

01:53:02.770 --> 01:53:05.489
if I stop metformin altogether? What if you intermittently

01:53:05.489 --> 01:53:08.130
took metformin and intermittently exercised?

01:53:08.510 --> 01:53:11.630
All great questions. Is there a half -life in

01:53:11.630 --> 01:53:14.130
terms of? Yeah, eventually it'll wash out. But

01:53:14.130 --> 01:53:17.010
I think exercise is the single most important

01:53:17.010 --> 01:53:20.250
longevity drug we have, bar none. Like if you

01:53:20.250 --> 01:53:23.130
said, like, I want to go deep down the rabbit

01:53:23.130 --> 01:53:25.270
hole of living longer, what do I need to do?

01:53:26.090 --> 01:53:29.050
It's like a super well -crafted exercise program

01:53:29.050 --> 01:53:31.729
that is geared towards strength, muscle mass,

01:53:31.829 --> 01:53:34.050
and cardiorespiratory fitness. So it's all of

01:53:34.050 --> 01:53:36.489
the above. It's not just one. Right. I mean the

01:53:36.489 --> 01:53:38.529
hazard ratios for each of these are pretty interesting.

01:53:38.649 --> 01:53:41.510
This has become like each year I try to bring

01:53:41.510 --> 01:53:45.289
one new focus into our practice. And the past

01:53:45.289 --> 01:53:47.829
12 months the focus has been entirely around

01:53:47.829 --> 01:53:51.310
taking exercise. to a new level in terms of our

01:53:51.310 --> 01:53:54.470
understanding of how to fine tune it. And the

01:53:54.470 --> 01:53:57.430
data are unbelievable, right? So if you, everybody

01:53:57.430 --> 01:53:59.970
knows that if you smoke or have diabetes, your

01:53:59.970 --> 01:54:04.050
risk of death goes up a lot, but your risk of

01:54:04.050 --> 01:54:07.310
death from having a high cardiorespiratory fitness

01:54:07.310 --> 01:54:10.750
goes down by much more than your risk of death

01:54:10.750 --> 01:54:14.449
goes up from smoking or diabetes. So smoking

01:54:14.449 --> 01:54:17.090
and diabetes will double or triple your risk

01:54:17.090 --> 01:54:19.819
of death, depending on the timeframe you're looking

01:54:19.819 --> 01:54:23.739
at having very high cardiorespiratory fitness.

01:54:23.760 --> 01:54:26.560
So having a VO two max that is elite, we would

01:54:26.560 --> 01:54:29.039
define that as the top 2 .5 % of the population

01:54:29.039 --> 01:54:33.859
compared to below average is a five fold reduction

01:54:33.859 --> 01:54:38.319
in all cause mortality death from any kind. Whoa.

01:54:38.840 --> 01:54:42.979
I mean, we don't have drugs that have a five

01:54:42.979 --> 01:54:46.520
X reduction in mortality. That's incredible.

01:54:46.640 --> 01:54:49.119
And that's just elite cardiovascular health.

01:54:49.279 --> 01:54:51.439
Right. And then when you layer in strength and

01:54:51.439 --> 01:54:54.579
muscle mass, we actually now have pretty good

01:54:54.579 --> 01:54:57.180
data as to the fact that strength is more important

01:54:57.180 --> 01:54:59.539
than muscle mass. Muscle mass is a good proxy

01:54:59.539 --> 01:55:01.119
for strength. But if you just focus on strength,

01:55:01.220 --> 01:55:03.340
that's the metric that matters. It's about a

01:55:03.340 --> 01:55:06.420
threefold reduction in all -cause mortality when

01:55:06.420 --> 01:55:09.300
you compare high strength to low strength. And

01:55:09.300 --> 01:55:12.119
the tests are, you know, we're talking, it's

01:55:12.119 --> 01:55:13.680
not like how much you can squat and deadlift.

01:55:13.739 --> 01:55:17.569
It's like. Grip strength, dead hang. How long

01:55:17.569 --> 01:55:19.930
can you do like an air squat? You know, like

01:55:19.930 --> 01:55:22.210
what's your quad strength? How quickly can you

01:55:22.210 --> 01:55:24.550
do five reps up and down from a chair? I mean,

01:55:24.569 --> 01:55:27.189
it's relatively simple stuff. But when you stratify

01:55:27.189 --> 01:55:30.090
people by those metrics and you compare the highest

01:55:30.090 --> 01:55:32.680
to the lowest performers. There's just no comparison.

01:55:32.939 --> 01:55:34.680
Is there a point of diminishing returns, though,

01:55:34.760 --> 01:55:36.880
where you just get really, really strong, but

01:55:36.880 --> 01:55:39.680
it's not helping you any more than being fairly

01:55:39.680 --> 01:55:42.079
strong? On the strength data, we don't see it

01:55:42.079 --> 01:55:44.180
because the data have only been parsed out as

01:55:44.180 --> 01:55:46.479
high to low. On the cardiorespiratory, there

01:55:46.479 --> 01:55:48.619
is a point of diminishing return. So remember

01:55:48.619 --> 01:55:54.720
I said elite is the top 2 .5%. So we break them

01:55:54.720 --> 01:55:57.079
into five categories, but they're not equal in

01:55:57.079 --> 01:56:00.100
bucket size. You get most of the benefit, honestly,

01:56:00.260 --> 01:56:02.850
by going from... not fit at all to average fit.

01:56:02.970 --> 01:56:07.109
That gives you three of the five X. Now that

01:56:07.109 --> 01:56:10.310
said, I hold myself and my patients to a way

01:56:10.310 --> 01:56:12.689
higher standard, which is we have a chart that

01:56:12.689 --> 01:56:15.649
shows all the data by age, by gender, and by

01:56:15.649 --> 01:56:19.470
VO2 max. And I would say, if you're a 52 -year

01:56:19.470 --> 01:56:22.970
-old male, I'm asking you to have the VO2 max

01:56:22.970 --> 01:56:26.149
of an elite 42 -year -old male. So I want you

01:56:26.149 --> 01:56:29.130
to be a decade younger elite. And then we do

01:56:29.130 --> 01:56:31.970
the same thing with strength metrics. And when

01:56:31.970 --> 01:56:35.250
you prescribe that, like say if you take a 52

01:56:35.250 --> 01:56:37.789
-year -old male that doesn't have a history of

01:56:37.789 --> 01:56:42.069
cardiovascular activity, maybe they lightly work

01:56:42.069 --> 01:56:44.780
out at the gym or something like that. particular

01:56:44.780 --> 01:56:46.739
exercises do you think are the best to achieve

01:56:46.739 --> 01:56:49.199
that result? So we'd start with a base of zone

01:56:49.199 --> 01:56:51.640
two. So this zone two is that lactate thing I

01:56:51.640 --> 01:56:53.920
was talking about. So your zone two is defined

01:56:53.920 --> 01:56:57.699
as the highest level of aerobic output that you

01:56:57.699 --> 01:56:59.539
can generate while keeping lactate below two

01:56:59.539 --> 01:57:02.279
millimole. So I think a bike is the easiest way

01:57:02.279 --> 01:57:05.260
to do this because the - Stationary or? Stationary

01:57:05.260 --> 01:57:08.100
just because you can keep it steady state. When

01:57:08.100 --> 01:57:09.859
you're on the road, you're all over the place.

01:57:09.979 --> 01:57:15.729
So if you're on a stationary bike, And also wattage

01:57:15.729 --> 01:57:17.710
is such an easy metric for people to understand.

01:57:17.810 --> 01:57:19.529
So how many watts are you putting out, right?

01:57:19.630 --> 01:57:22.930
So the first thing we would do is say you probably

01:57:22.930 --> 01:57:25.010
need to be doing at least three hours a week

01:57:25.010 --> 01:57:27.369
of that zone two, which is building an aerobic

01:57:27.369 --> 01:57:32.109
base. So four 45 -minute sessions at zone two.

01:57:32.859 --> 01:57:36.340
constantly driving it up and honestly one session

01:57:36.340 --> 01:57:39.239
of vo2 max training per week and the best protocol

01:57:39.239 --> 01:57:41.420
for that is the four by four protocol so that's

01:57:41.420 --> 01:57:44.500
four minutes at the highest output you can sustain

01:57:44.500 --> 01:57:46.800
so here you could do it on an air bike or something

01:57:46.800 --> 01:57:49.060
right so you could do what's the highest wattage

01:57:49.060 --> 01:57:51.439
you can hold for four minutes and then four minute

01:57:51.439 --> 01:57:54.380
recovery and do five of those sets once a week

01:57:56.110 --> 01:57:58.770
So when you're doing that, do you think that

01:57:58.770 --> 01:58:01.829
the best is like an Airdyne that works the arms

01:58:01.829 --> 01:58:03.670
and the legs? Or do you think just a regular

01:58:03.670 --> 01:58:08.130
bike that just works the legs? For Zone 2, I

01:58:08.130 --> 01:58:10.170
mean, it really just matters that you're consistent.

01:58:11.100 --> 01:58:14.279
I think most people find you can do a higher

01:58:14.279 --> 01:58:16.420
output when you're on an air bike in terms of

01:58:16.420 --> 01:58:18.960
absolute wattage because you are leveraging upper

01:58:18.960 --> 01:58:21.420
and lower body. It really doesn't matter that

01:58:21.420 --> 01:58:23.079
much. I mean, you can do this on a treadmill.

01:58:23.199 --> 01:58:25.100
You can do this on a stair climber. You can do

01:58:25.100 --> 01:58:26.760
this on any kind of cardiovascular activity.

01:58:26.819 --> 01:58:29.420
But you need 45 minutes four times a week. That

01:58:29.420 --> 01:58:31.800
seems to be the minimum effective dose on zone

01:58:31.800 --> 01:58:34.500
two. Now, if someone's super deconditioned, it

01:58:34.500 --> 01:58:36.979
can probably be three 30 -minute sessions to

01:58:36.979 --> 01:58:40.789
start and they'll see benefit. Interesting. And

01:58:40.789 --> 01:58:45.069
then as far as a strength program, do you recommend

01:58:45.069 --> 01:58:48.710
specific exercises? Is it like squat, deadlift?

01:58:49.090 --> 01:58:51.210
Well, this is where it gets very dependent on

01:58:51.210 --> 01:58:53.470
the person. So we have a test that we put our

01:58:53.470 --> 01:58:57.380
patients through that's... 10 exercises and they're

01:58:57.380 --> 01:59:00.079
all basically normalized to your body weight

01:59:00.079 --> 01:59:03.600
and gender so like a dead hang so how long can

01:59:03.600 --> 01:59:06.220
you hang from a bar dead so for how long should

01:59:06.220 --> 01:59:08.380
you be able to hold well we hold males to the

01:59:08.380 --> 01:59:10.979
standard of two minutes and that's a long time

01:59:10.979 --> 01:59:13.319
yeah and females to a minute and a half at the

01:59:13.319 --> 01:59:17.060
age of 40 so then it gets discounted By decade?

01:59:17.380 --> 01:59:20.000
You know, it's interesting. When we were hosting

01:59:20.000 --> 01:59:22.319
Fear Factor, Dead Hang was one of the stunts.

01:59:22.319 --> 01:59:24.979
These people hung from a chin -up bar that was

01:59:24.979 --> 01:59:27.659
over a bridge into a river. Do you remember how

01:59:27.659 --> 01:59:30.060
long people could go? No, but the women won.

01:59:30.779 --> 01:59:34.600
Interesting. Yeah. We had a big jack guy. He

01:59:34.600 --> 01:59:39.239
was fucking pretty stout, and he fell into the

01:59:39.239 --> 01:59:41.979
water quicker. I think it's weight, body weight.

01:59:42.939 --> 01:59:45.060
Oh, it's harder the more we weigh, of course,

01:59:46.489 --> 01:59:48.130
Theory, you should be stronger if you're a man

01:59:48.130 --> 01:59:51.550
as well. Yeah, but if you're a 250 -pound man

01:59:51.550 --> 01:59:54.029
and you're carrying all that extra weight because

01:59:54.029 --> 01:59:56.449
you've been doing bodybuilding -type exercises.

01:59:56.510 --> 01:59:58.710
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And especially if you use

01:59:58.710 --> 02:00:02.310
straps and you don't have that grip. Two minutes

02:00:02.310 --> 02:00:04.590
is a long fucking time though. The very first

02:00:04.590 --> 02:00:07.329
time I did it, I did it after deadlifting. So

02:00:07.329 --> 02:00:10.329
my grip was a little taxed and I only got to

02:00:10.329 --> 02:00:14.289
126. And then about a week later, I tried again

02:00:14.289 --> 02:00:16.649
and I got to two minutes. My longest is a little

02:00:16.649 --> 02:00:19.010
over three minutes now. I do it twice a week.

02:00:19.329 --> 02:00:25.210
How much do you weigh? Like 171. And as you get

02:00:25.210 --> 02:00:30.550
heavier, your hand strength must really need

02:00:30.550 --> 02:00:32.569
to be a giant factor. It's like you're dealing

02:00:32.569 --> 02:00:36.399
with a guy who's... should be 171, like if you

02:00:36.399 --> 02:00:39.439
decided to body build and you went to 250, that

02:00:39.439 --> 02:00:41.899
would probably radically decrease your amount

02:00:41.899 --> 02:00:44.600
of time. Yeah, although to your point, I would

02:00:44.600 --> 02:00:47.739
hope that I was using my grip strength to make

02:00:47.739 --> 02:00:50.840
that happen. I mean, grip strength is probably

02:00:50.840 --> 02:00:53.680
one of the most correlated indices with longevity.

02:00:54.060 --> 02:00:55.600
Yeah, I've heard that, but I don't know why.

02:00:55.760 --> 02:00:58.180
Why is that? There's probably two reasons. One

02:00:58.180 --> 02:01:01.180
is, I used to think it was the obvious reason,

02:01:01.239 --> 02:01:05.000
which is, look at... Look at the causes of mortality.

02:01:05.279 --> 02:01:07.100
We have this thing in our practice called the

02:01:07.100 --> 02:01:09.119
death bars. So one of my analysts, Bob Kaplan,

02:01:09.239 --> 02:01:11.939
about a year ago, I said, Bob, I want you to

02:01:11.939 --> 02:01:15.239
make these five graphs for me. And they're basically

02:01:15.239 --> 02:01:17.520
everything about the causes of death. So one

02:01:17.520 --> 02:01:19.739
of them is just show me all cause mortality by

02:01:19.739 --> 02:01:22.899
decade. Now break it down into the subsets. And

02:01:22.899 --> 02:01:25.699
one of the most common things is accidental deaths.

02:01:25.880 --> 02:01:27.840
And this is the most interesting trend is accidental

02:01:27.840 --> 02:01:32.359
deaths change so much by age. So in our age group,

02:01:32.579 --> 02:01:34.760
so by the way, accidental deaths are uniform

02:01:34.760 --> 02:01:38.699
across the population, but they become a much

02:01:38.699 --> 02:01:41.380
bigger source of death on a per capita basis

02:01:41.380 --> 02:01:42.979
as you get older because there are fewer older

02:01:42.979 --> 02:01:46.140
people. In our demographic, most accidental deaths

02:01:46.140 --> 02:01:49.279
are overdoses. When you're older, they become

02:01:49.279 --> 02:01:51.720
virtually all falls. 90 % of accidental deaths

02:01:51.720 --> 02:01:55.220
are falls. So a fall is a very lethal thing by

02:01:55.220 --> 02:01:57.800
the time you're 75. Like you and I don't think

02:01:57.800 --> 02:02:01.550
about it. By the time you're 75, falling is a

02:02:01.550 --> 02:02:04.529
devastating consequence. Isn't that wild? So

02:02:04.529 --> 02:02:07.829
think about how strong grip versus weak grip

02:02:07.829 --> 02:02:10.090
would impact your ability to tolerate a fall.

02:02:10.449 --> 02:02:12.770
It's can you get your hand down? Can you grab

02:02:12.770 --> 02:02:14.390
something when you're falling? All of those things

02:02:14.390 --> 02:02:16.829
matter a lot. The second reason I think grip

02:02:16.829 --> 02:02:19.529
strength matters a lot is it is such a good proxy

02:02:19.529 --> 02:02:22.170
for strength because one of the things I've learned

02:02:22.170 --> 02:02:24.989
in the past year becoming so obsessive with grip

02:02:24.989 --> 02:02:28.229
strength is how as my hands have gotten stronger,

02:02:29.370 --> 02:02:31.810
It's alleviated all the shoulder. Like I have

02:02:31.810 --> 02:02:34.109
a torn labrum here from my swimming days that

02:02:34.109 --> 02:02:37.250
is so painful. I thought I would never be able

02:02:37.250 --> 02:02:39.710
to do a dead hang pull -up again. Because whenever

02:02:39.710 --> 02:02:42.090
I was in this full position, I'm putting so much

02:02:42.090 --> 02:02:44.609
stress on the labrum. So I would just, I was

02:02:44.609 --> 02:02:46.449
doing pull -ups to here, right? Like I would,

02:02:46.470 --> 02:02:49.010
you know, I'd go from here to here. And then

02:02:49.010 --> 02:02:52.409
Beth Lewis, this person in our practice who is

02:02:52.409 --> 02:02:54.970
kind of like our strength guru, she was convinced

02:02:54.970 --> 02:02:58.010
that if I could just get my grip stronger. I

02:02:58.010 --> 02:02:59.569
would fix this. And I was like, Beth, that doesn't

02:02:59.569 --> 02:03:01.109
even make freaking sense. Like, why does having

02:03:01.109 --> 02:03:04.050
more grip fix my shoulder? But I just started

02:03:04.050 --> 02:03:05.750
doing everything she said, like all of these

02:03:05.750 --> 02:03:08.130
dead hang finger exercises and all this other

02:03:08.130 --> 02:03:12.689
stuff. And now when I do a pull up, I can dead

02:03:12.689 --> 02:03:16.810
hang with zero pain. And I'm just putting all

02:03:16.810 --> 02:03:19.310
this extra pressure in my finger. And I think

02:03:19.310 --> 02:03:23.159
the reason is. It is allowing us to potentiate

02:03:23.159 --> 02:03:26.520
force more stably from our scapula all the way

02:03:26.520 --> 02:03:28.960
through. And so much of the instability we have

02:03:28.960 --> 02:03:31.180
in shoulders and all these injuries is just because

02:03:31.180 --> 02:03:34.539
we don't transmit force correctly. So I think

02:03:34.539 --> 02:03:37.680
something about having really strong grip just

02:03:37.680 --> 02:03:42.180
basically fixes so much of the upper body strength,

02:03:42.340 --> 02:03:44.520
you know, weakness, you know, strength imbalances

02:03:44.520 --> 02:03:48.229
that we have. Again, it's a proxy for people

02:03:48.229 --> 02:03:51.390
who don't fall. It's a proxy for other things.

02:03:51.449 --> 02:03:53.229
It is a proxy for muscle mass. The more muscle

02:03:53.229 --> 02:03:55.029
mass you have, the more glucose you dispose of,

02:03:55.069 --> 02:03:58.250
the more metabolically healthy you are. So that's

02:03:58.250 --> 02:04:01.529
my best guess for it. And what exercise do you

02:04:01.529 --> 02:04:04.270
do besides dead hang? So the other things we

02:04:04.270 --> 02:04:07.310
have people do is – so another important principle

02:04:07.310 --> 02:04:11.420
of aging – so think about hunting, right? Where

02:04:11.420 --> 02:04:13.100
are you more likely to hurt yourself, walking

02:04:13.100 --> 02:04:14.840
down a steep hill or walking up a steep hill?

02:04:14.979 --> 02:04:18.100
Down. Absolutely. Breaks is everything in life.

02:04:18.539 --> 02:04:20.979
Eccentric strength matters more than concentric

02:04:20.979 --> 02:04:23.359
strength. Concentric strength is important, but

02:04:23.359 --> 02:04:26.560
we overemphasize it. We don't train eccentric

02:04:26.560 --> 02:04:29.239
strength enough. So a big part of this program

02:04:29.239 --> 02:04:31.779
is how do you train eccentric strength? So one

02:04:31.779 --> 02:04:34.439
of our metrics is you have to be able to step

02:04:34.439 --> 02:04:37.640
down from a 16 -foot block and take more than

02:04:37.640 --> 02:04:41.859
three seconds. Sorry, I don't know if I said

02:04:41.859 --> 02:04:44.180
16 feet. You're 16 inches on a block, and you're

02:04:44.180 --> 02:04:46.319
going to put one step down, but you have to do

02:04:46.319 --> 02:04:48.640
it in more than three seconds. So think about

02:04:48.640 --> 02:04:51.760
how much control you need in the supporting quad

02:04:51.760 --> 02:04:55.920
to put yourself down that slowly. That's how

02:04:55.920 --> 02:04:58.119
you walk downstairs and don't hurt yourself.

02:04:58.260 --> 02:05:03.300
That's how you have the ability to stop yourself

02:05:03.300 --> 02:05:07.109
if you lose balance. We have eccentric modes

02:05:07.109 --> 02:05:09.890
as well. So you have to be able to hold 50 %

02:05:09.890 --> 02:05:12.090
of your body weight and do a certain number of

02:05:12.090 --> 02:05:13.810
box step -ups. You have to be able to farmers

02:05:13.810 --> 02:05:16.329
carry with 75 % of your body weight. So we have

02:05:16.329 --> 02:05:18.609
a whole bunch of other things that have to do

02:05:18.609 --> 02:05:20.949
with ankle mobility. It's a lot of non -sexy

02:05:20.949 --> 02:05:25.930
stuff that is our top 10. And of course, deadlifting

02:05:25.930 --> 02:05:27.649
and things like that are super important because

02:05:27.649 --> 02:05:29.430
that's a big part of how you train those things.

02:05:29.550 --> 02:05:31.909
But we also don't fixate on it. Like my wife

02:05:31.909 --> 02:05:35.130
has scoliosis and... If she deadlifts, it just

02:05:35.130 --> 02:05:37.010
puts a little too much stress on her back. So

02:05:37.010 --> 02:05:39.170
she does hip thrusters instead. And you can get

02:05:39.170 --> 02:05:41.409
most of the hip hinge benefit using a hip thruster

02:05:41.409 --> 02:05:43.930
without having to deadlift. What about kettlebell

02:05:43.930 --> 02:05:46.890
swings? Amazing exercise, right? Is that good

02:05:46.890 --> 02:05:49.789
enough as a hip hinge? Yeah. I mean, I think

02:05:49.789 --> 02:05:52.189
if you're good. I mean, the problem with a kettlebell

02:05:52.189 --> 02:05:54.949
swing is it requires a ton of technique and coordination.

02:05:55.090 --> 02:05:59.350
And I think most people do it incorrectly. But

02:05:59.350 --> 02:06:02.109
if you're doing it right, it's an amazing exercise.

02:06:03.110 --> 02:06:06.550
Yeah. So what is your routine? What are the things

02:06:06.550 --> 02:06:08.329
that you concentrate on? I know I watch your

02:06:08.329 --> 02:06:11.670
Instagram. You've been doing deadlifting. I love

02:06:11.670 --> 02:06:14.149
deadlifting. But I don't deadlift heavy these

02:06:14.149 --> 02:06:16.729
days. I've been deadlifting relatively light.

02:06:17.050 --> 02:06:20.529
But I do it with like a, I do a very heavy focus

02:06:20.529 --> 02:06:23.449
on eccentrics. I do a no touch deadlift where

02:06:23.449 --> 02:06:25.789
I'm taking only, I'm only letting 50 % of the

02:06:25.789 --> 02:06:28.310
weight down in between reps. So kind of more

02:06:28.310 --> 02:06:30.569
staying under constant tension as I lift. Ton

02:06:30.569 --> 02:06:33.729
of single leg stuff. You can use a fraction of

02:06:33.729 --> 02:06:36.630
the weight. And I do, I started about six months

02:06:36.630 --> 02:06:38.210
ago doing a lot of blood flow restriction stuff

02:06:38.210 --> 02:06:41.319
as well. So you're really going light. The blood

02:06:41.319 --> 02:06:43.159
flow restriction stuff is very interesting. Have

02:06:43.159 --> 02:06:45.920
you done it? No, I haven't, but I've heard great

02:06:45.920 --> 02:06:47.640
things about it. But I wanted to ask you this

02:06:47.640 --> 02:06:50.739
before I forget. You had written something once

02:06:50.739 --> 02:06:53.760
about, I meant to talk to you about this, about

02:06:53.760 --> 02:06:57.600
deadlifts actually decompressing the spine, which

02:06:57.600 --> 02:07:00.180
I found so counterintuitive. So how does that

02:07:00.180 --> 02:07:02.640
work? How are you getting deadlifts to decompress

02:07:02.640 --> 02:07:06.390
you? And this is easiest in a hex bar deadlift.

02:07:06.470 --> 02:07:08.069
It's much easier with a hex bar deadlift than

02:07:08.069 --> 02:07:10.390
a sumo deadlift. That's what I use anyway. Yeah.

02:07:10.430 --> 02:07:15.010
So the reason is if you have enough intra -abdominal

02:07:15.010 --> 02:07:20.949
pressure and you're putting your spine at just

02:07:20.949 --> 02:07:24.270
the right amount of extension, you're actually

02:07:24.270 --> 02:07:28.970
extending your spine when you lift because of

02:07:28.970 --> 02:07:32.390
the position of your hip. So it's hard to explain.

02:07:32.939 --> 02:07:35.579
without feeling it and it took me a really long

02:07:35.579 --> 02:07:38.460
time to feel this but have you heard of dynamic

02:07:38.460 --> 02:07:42.720
neuromuscular stabilization no dns so it's this

02:07:42.720 --> 02:07:44.319
it's this discipline that really taught me how

02:07:44.319 --> 02:07:46.279
to do this kind of intra -abdominal pressure

02:07:46.279 --> 02:07:51.100
where you you put a huge amount of pressure in

02:07:51.100 --> 02:07:53.260
your pelvis basically so you're like you ever

02:07:53.260 --> 02:07:55.600
notice how the Really good power lifters have

02:07:55.600 --> 02:07:58.619
huge abdomens. Yeah. And this is a big part of

02:07:58.619 --> 02:08:01.239
it is they can generate so much pressure in their

02:08:01.239 --> 02:08:03.920
abdomen that they're basically stretching out

02:08:03.920 --> 02:08:06.920
their spine, pushing out everywhere. So they

02:08:06.920 --> 02:08:09.960
have kind of a cylinder inside their body. Right.

02:08:10.020 --> 02:08:12.899
And if you if you can't do that, you almost have

02:08:12.899 --> 02:08:15.079
like a triangle in your body with the diaphragm

02:08:15.079 --> 02:08:17.020
being the top and the pelvis being the bottom.

02:08:17.819 --> 02:08:20.680
So the force is not going out in all directions

02:08:20.680 --> 02:08:22.979
in the same way. So what you want is this force

02:08:22.979 --> 02:08:28.359
to be going out equally. And when I do that with

02:08:28.359 --> 02:08:31.880
a hex bar deadlift, I can hear my spine like

02:08:31.880 --> 02:08:34.439
actually like going like an adjustment, just

02:08:34.439 --> 02:08:36.100
the same as when I'm dead hanging. You can sort

02:08:36.100 --> 02:08:41.180
of hear a crack. Yeah. What is the steps? Like

02:08:41.180 --> 02:08:43.439
how do you start it? You start on the ground.

02:08:43.539 --> 02:08:45.539
It's the easiest to do when you're on your back

02:08:45.539 --> 02:08:48.119
and you have somebody who knows how to cue it

02:08:48.119 --> 02:08:51.100
initially. So you know the two hip bones here?

02:08:51.300 --> 02:08:53.439
Yes. This is called your anterior superior iliac

02:08:53.439 --> 02:08:57.020
crest. So I go about two finger breaths in. two

02:08:57.020 --> 02:08:59.380
finger breaths down. And as I'm laying on my

02:08:59.380 --> 02:09:02.939
back, I'm trying to put as much air into there

02:09:02.939 --> 02:09:06.079
as possible. And you want to imagine that your

02:09:06.079 --> 02:09:08.140
shorts, which have, you know, the ring that the

02:09:08.140 --> 02:09:10.560
waistband of your shorts make, you want to make

02:09:10.560 --> 02:09:13.479
it as big as possible in all directions. So you're

02:09:13.479 --> 02:09:15.840
trying to get air out into your back. You're

02:09:15.840 --> 02:09:18.220
trying to get air into your pelvis. So the first

02:09:18.220 --> 02:09:20.819
step is just being able to do that. And then

02:09:20.819 --> 02:09:22.420
eventually you want to be able to do that while

02:09:22.420 --> 02:09:24.560
breathing, meaning you want to be able to get

02:09:24.560 --> 02:09:27.399
that pressure out. and then take a breath. Because

02:09:27.399 --> 02:09:28.880
at first, you won't be able to do that. At first,

02:09:28.920 --> 02:09:31.579
you'll just blow out. Right. And you'll be holding

02:09:31.579 --> 02:09:33.060
your breath. So the next thing you want to be

02:09:33.060 --> 02:09:36.130
able to hold that while you breathe. And then

02:09:36.130 --> 02:09:38.409
we do some other exercises before we would go

02:09:38.409 --> 02:09:40.229
to deadlifting. So now you want to be able to

02:09:40.229 --> 02:09:42.369
get into certain positions where you're on your

02:09:42.369 --> 02:09:45.909
front and you're in opposite support. So the

02:09:45.909 --> 02:09:48.109
obvious one is like a bear position where you're

02:09:48.109 --> 02:09:50.390
on all fours. But then ultimately we get into

02:09:50.390 --> 02:09:52.670
these really complicated positions where you're

02:09:52.670 --> 02:09:56.170
on one elbow and the side of one knee, but you're

02:09:56.170 --> 02:09:58.470
keeping your pelvis totally level. Like these?

02:09:58.729 --> 02:10:02.130
Yes, exactly. So for example. So there's a whole

02:10:02.130 --> 02:10:05.649
chart. Yeah. Basically what DNS comes down to

02:10:05.649 --> 02:10:09.729
is modeling the neurodevelopment of an infant.

02:10:09.850 --> 02:10:12.670
So basically if we're left, if we're not messed

02:10:12.670 --> 02:10:14.909
around with when we're kids, we will develop

02:10:14.909 --> 02:10:16.869
perfectly normally for the first two years of

02:10:16.869 --> 02:10:19.409
our life. These are the exercises I use to fix

02:10:19.409 --> 02:10:21.850
my back, Joe. Really? Without even knowing. That's

02:10:21.850 --> 02:10:24.149
what it was called. Yeah. The doctor, it took

02:10:24.149 --> 02:10:25.449
her a couple of weeks to figure it out. But that

02:10:25.449 --> 02:10:27.909
first thing was like getting, I'm trying to find

02:10:27.909 --> 02:10:30.659
like this position here where her back is. up

02:10:30.659 --> 02:10:32.880
and her legs are like that, that's basically

02:10:32.880 --> 02:10:35.380
what fixed it. And just trying to get that breathing

02:10:35.380 --> 02:10:37.159
in after a couple of weeks, all the pain kind

02:10:37.159 --> 02:10:38.319
of just kind of went away. So you see the one

02:10:38.319 --> 02:10:40.239
that's four to five months there where she's

02:10:40.239 --> 02:10:42.859
in an eight, so where her left leg is out. So

02:10:42.859 --> 02:10:45.619
that's, to me, that is the gangster position

02:10:45.619 --> 02:10:48.159
that gets you ready to deadlift. When you can

02:10:48.159 --> 02:10:51.000
do what she's doing and now pick your hips up

02:10:51.000 --> 02:10:54.520
off the floor and stay perfectly level with only

02:10:54.520 --> 02:10:57.279
your left leg down and your right elbow down,

02:10:57.359 --> 02:11:00.970
and you'll feel your spine will just go. you

02:11:00.970 --> 02:11:04.229
feel this total expansion. That tells you you

02:11:04.229 --> 02:11:06.109
have the intra -abdominal control to deadlift.

02:11:06.649 --> 02:11:09.930
So left leg down, right elbow. Yep, right elbow

02:11:09.930 --> 02:11:12.989
down. That's it right there. Opposite, opposite,

02:11:13.109 --> 02:11:15.409
yep. She's not doing it fully right now, but

02:11:15.409 --> 02:11:16.949
that's the precursor. She's on the way. Yeah,

02:11:16.989 --> 02:11:19.619
that's the precursor to that position. And so

02:11:19.619 --> 02:11:23.140
that's how you start to learn. So then there's

02:11:23.140 --> 02:11:26.000
expanding in those images right there. You see

02:11:26.000 --> 02:11:27.939
how they're using, is that the diaphragm that

02:11:27.939 --> 02:11:30.920
they're using? Yep. To push out? Yep. And so

02:11:30.920 --> 02:11:33.680
that is what expands your back. Yep. Do you do

02:11:33.680 --> 02:11:37.119
any decompression in terms of like, you ever

02:11:37.119 --> 02:11:40.619
use one of those teeter decks? Do you know what

02:11:40.619 --> 02:11:42.239
I'm talking about? Yeah, I do. Not the ones that

02:11:42.239 --> 02:11:44.239
hang by your ankles, but the one where you hinge

02:11:44.239 --> 02:11:45.399
from the waist. No, the only thing that I do

02:11:45.399 --> 02:11:48.300
decompression for is my neck. So I have a device

02:11:48.300 --> 02:11:50.319
at home. Every day I do 10 minutes of neck traction.

02:11:50.640 --> 02:11:53.000
Oh, you do one of those? Yep. Do you do one with

02:11:53.000 --> 02:11:55.600
the inflated one that you pump up, or do you

02:11:55.600 --> 02:11:59.220
do the hang one? Neither. So it's called a Sanders

02:11:59.220 --> 02:12:03.380
machine. You lay in it, and it grabs your mandible.

02:12:03.899 --> 02:12:06.680
and your occiput, and it pulls you up, and you

02:12:06.680 --> 02:12:09.619
adjust the poundage. So I do 25 pounds for 10

02:12:09.619 --> 02:12:13.000
minutes. What's the machine that you use? What's

02:12:13.000 --> 02:12:15.020
it called? It's called a Sanders. I bought it

02:12:15.020 --> 02:12:20.460
on, there it is. Oh, interesting, because I have

02:12:20.460 --> 02:12:24.239
one where I hang. That looks safer. This is much

02:12:24.239 --> 02:12:27.039
safer, because you would start somebody out at

02:12:27.039 --> 02:12:29.819
a much lower poundage. Jamie, will you send me

02:12:29.819 --> 02:12:32.399
this link? Thanks. But you don't have any cervical.

02:12:33.050 --> 02:12:35.989
disc issues do you i have i've had them yeah

02:12:35.989 --> 02:12:38.470
i had um so i would do i would do this under

02:12:38.470 --> 02:12:40.270
the guidance of a physical therapist just to

02:12:40.270 --> 02:12:42.069
make sure that they tell you how i mean are you

02:12:42.069 --> 02:12:44.069
literally hanging by your neck right now no not

02:12:44.069 --> 02:12:46.590
fully but like you know how much weight how much

02:12:46.590 --> 02:12:49.649
weight are you uh i just have one of these things

02:12:49.649 --> 02:12:51.909
that it hooks onto a door yeah yeah the top of

02:12:51.909 --> 02:12:53.390
the door and i pull the thing like this click

02:12:53.390 --> 02:12:55.649
click click click click click oh okay okay and

02:12:55.649 --> 02:12:58.710
then i can choose to like lean into it and put

02:12:58.710 --> 02:13:04.020
more weight like let it let it make my neck decompress

02:13:04.020 --> 02:13:06.140
more, and then I can pull it up more, and so

02:13:06.140 --> 02:13:08.399
it gets to like this. I got it. I'm hanging there,

02:13:08.439 --> 02:13:10.699
but it feels good. Where is the pressure being

02:13:10.699 --> 02:13:12.500
applied? More in the front or more in the back?

02:13:12.840 --> 02:13:15.260
Kind of like a bolt. Okay. It's a strap, and

02:13:15.260 --> 02:13:17.659
you tighten it down with Velcro, and it's like,

02:13:17.739 --> 02:13:20.539
ah. So the other thing that DNS, that I do every

02:13:20.539 --> 02:13:24.539
day for DNS is, so there are muscles that run

02:13:24.539 --> 02:13:29.020
on the front of your vertebral bodies and your

02:13:29.020 --> 02:13:31.720
cervical. spine. And they're called deep neck

02:13:31.720 --> 02:13:35.420
stabilizing muscles. And one of the challenges

02:13:35.420 --> 02:13:38.260
that most of us have, who all have sort of cervical

02:13:38.260 --> 02:13:41.260
neck issues, is those muscles aren't strong enough.

02:13:41.279 --> 02:13:42.939
They're not fully engaged enough. So another

02:13:42.939 --> 02:13:46.100
exercise I do when on my back in that position

02:13:46.100 --> 02:13:49.800
with the intra -abdominal pressure is kind of

02:13:49.800 --> 02:13:54.020
look down at my chest and without lifting my

02:13:54.020 --> 02:13:57.560
head up, go through the initiation of a lift

02:13:57.560 --> 02:14:01.359
up. And to do that, you basically will end up

02:14:01.359 --> 02:14:03.579
using these deep neck stabilizers as opposed

02:14:03.579 --> 02:14:05.399
to the scalenes, right? You don't want to be

02:14:05.399 --> 02:14:07.340
moving your neck or stabilizing your neck with

02:14:07.340 --> 02:14:09.020
these muscles that are outside. You want to be

02:14:09.020 --> 02:14:12.619
doing it with the muscles inside. extending the

02:14:12.619 --> 02:14:15.020
spine you can't feel these muscles they're everything

02:14:15.020 --> 02:14:16.920
you're feeling right now is sort of superficial

02:14:16.920 --> 02:14:18.899
do you use anything to strengthen your neck like

02:14:18.899 --> 02:14:20.720
an iron neck or anything like that no i just

02:14:20.720 --> 02:14:23.359
i do the i did when i was boxing of course you

02:14:23.359 --> 02:14:25.079
ever use an iron neck i don't know i would do

02:14:25.079 --> 02:14:26.659
like the you know i used to do the thing that

02:14:26.659 --> 02:14:28.899
you wrap around your head and right but the issue

02:14:28.899 --> 02:14:30.920
with that is that it puts an unnatural amount

02:14:30.920 --> 02:14:33.819
of leverage on the disc itself the iron neck

02:14:33.819 --> 02:14:37.159
is a halo that you know what it is no I'll give

02:14:37.159 --> 02:14:39.399
you one. We have a stack of them. They sent me

02:14:39.399 --> 02:14:42.699
a bunch to give away. But you have a halo, and

02:14:42.699 --> 02:14:46.340
you pump it up like a Reebok pump. It fits tight

02:14:46.340 --> 02:14:48.380
to your head, and then there's a 50 -pound bungee

02:14:48.380 --> 02:14:51.560
cord. And so you pull back so that you're under

02:14:51.560 --> 02:14:54.600
tension, and then you can adjust the amount of

02:14:54.600 --> 02:14:57.479
tension. See that guy's using it there. There's

02:14:57.479 --> 02:15:03.500
a video of me doing it too because the guy who—

02:15:03.500 --> 02:15:04.960
Yeah, this would be kind of cool for driving.

02:15:05.650 --> 02:15:08.649
Because that's a thing in a race car, right?

02:15:08.710 --> 02:15:11.470
Your neck is under a lot of G -force. Well, the

02:15:11.470 --> 02:15:14.590
idea behind it is there's the guy who invented

02:15:14.590 --> 02:15:20.090
it. Is it Mike Jolly? Is that his name? He's

02:15:20.090 --> 02:15:22.609
a former NFL player, big fucking stout fella.

02:15:22.949 --> 02:15:26.770
And he developed this to aid in people. There's

02:15:26.770 --> 02:15:29.569
Tom Papa too. To keep people from, there's a

02:15:29.569 --> 02:15:34.039
lot of folks that get head injuries. and a lot

02:15:34.039 --> 02:15:38.100
of it is from the weakness of the neck and that

02:15:38.100 --> 02:15:41.000
makes your head snap. Yeah, I'd love to try it.

02:15:41.279 --> 02:15:46.890
But with jiu -jitsu... it's gigantic because

02:15:46.890 --> 02:15:49.590
there's no real safe way to train your neck.

02:15:49.750 --> 02:15:52.449
But with that, my mind - We used to do neck bridges

02:15:52.449 --> 02:15:55.329
rolling, all this idiotic stuff. Yeah, we used

02:15:55.329 --> 02:15:58.270
to do that too. But this iron neck thing is way

02:15:58.270 --> 02:16:00.010
better because you don't really do that, but

02:16:00.010 --> 02:16:03.010
you do do this. So the halo's on, the bungee

02:16:03.010 --> 02:16:05.729
cord's on, and I go like this, twist here, twist

02:16:05.729 --> 02:16:08.189
here, twist here, twist here. And then I turn

02:16:08.189 --> 02:16:10.689
around, I do it backwards, and then I do it sideways.

02:16:10.789 --> 02:16:13.310
So I have it going to my right side, I have it

02:16:13.310 --> 02:16:15.149
going to my left side. And I do what they call

02:16:15.149 --> 02:16:17.489
the Stevie Wonder. So I do this thing like this.

02:16:18.689 --> 02:16:21.050
And the whole idea is that you're not putting

02:16:21.050 --> 02:16:25.329
that unnatural hinge on your discs. And all of

02:16:25.329 --> 02:16:28.670
this muscle tissue has gotten so much stronger

02:16:28.670 --> 02:16:32.329
because of it. My neck is bigger. I mean, I haven't

02:16:32.329 --> 02:16:34.670
measured it, but, I mean, shirts that I used

02:16:34.670 --> 02:16:37.329
to wear I can't fit anymore. But it's just stronger.

02:16:37.610 --> 02:16:39.870
It's more stable. Yeah, I'd love to try it. You

02:16:39.870 --> 02:16:42.290
can have it. I have one for you. There you go.

02:16:43.680 --> 02:16:46.879
JRE swag. So I'm going to have to try that with

02:16:46.879 --> 02:16:48.959
the hex bar. I mean, it seems like I'm going

02:16:48.959 --> 02:16:51.120
to have to. I mean, start with the positions

02:16:51.120 --> 02:16:53.879
on the ground. It's easier to show you if I was

02:16:53.879 --> 02:16:55.579
actually putting you on a mat and having you

02:16:55.579 --> 02:16:56.979
do it. Well, we'll do that someday. Yeah, yeah,

02:16:56.979 --> 02:17:00.340
yeah. And so you do that. You do those. So I

02:17:00.340 --> 02:17:03.399
do my four days a week. I do four sessions a

02:17:03.399 --> 02:17:05.819
week of the 45 -minute zone two. So that's the.

02:17:06.639 --> 02:17:09.340
I'm titrating my wattage to keep lactate at two

02:17:09.340 --> 02:17:12.659
millimole. Um, I do one session a week of a higher

02:17:12.659 --> 02:17:15.959
end anaerobic exercise. I typically do it on

02:17:15.959 --> 02:17:17.940
a stair machine. You know, those rotating machines

02:17:17.940 --> 02:17:20.600
where I just do like, I'll do a one minute sprint,

02:17:20.860 --> 02:17:24.100
a two minute easy climb, one minute sprint, two

02:17:24.100 --> 02:17:26.459
minute easy climb, or four on four off on a bike.

02:17:26.760 --> 02:17:30.020
And then four sessions of strength a week for

02:17:30.020 --> 02:17:31.420
four strength sessions a week. And that's it.

02:17:31.479 --> 02:17:33.120
Like, I mean, this is the least I've ever exercised

02:17:33.120 --> 02:17:35.879
in my life. I exercise a total of. 10 or 11 hours

02:17:35.879 --> 02:17:37.780
a week, which is still a lot by most people's

02:17:37.780 --> 02:17:39.180
standards. By most people's standards, it is

02:17:39.180 --> 02:17:41.260
a lot. But by my standards, that's like nothing.

02:17:41.440 --> 02:17:43.340
Well, people need to understand that you're a

02:17:43.340 --> 02:17:47.500
fucking maniac and you swam all the different,

02:17:47.639 --> 02:17:50.760
you swam in between all the islands of Hawaii.

02:17:50.940 --> 02:17:53.639
No, no, no, no, just Maui and Lanai. But you

02:17:53.639 --> 02:17:56.180
were trying to do, what was, there was something

02:17:56.180 --> 02:17:57.579
going on where they wouldn't let you do it at

02:17:57.579 --> 02:18:00.639
night, right? Yes, that was that swim. Those

02:18:00.639 --> 02:18:03.159
are the tiger sharks. What? Because at night

02:18:03.159 --> 02:18:04.840
it's so dark, you have to pin a glow stick to

02:18:04.840 --> 02:18:07.139
your bathing suit. And they were like, the boat

02:18:07.139 --> 02:18:08.399
captain, like, I'm going to start at midnight

02:18:08.399 --> 02:18:10.659
to avoid the wind. And he's like, dude, you'll

02:18:10.659 --> 02:18:12.620
be like chum out there with a little glow stick

02:18:12.620 --> 02:18:14.659
on your butt. Really? They would come for you?

02:18:14.780 --> 02:18:16.600
Yeah, yeah. They would love that. Tiger sharks

02:18:16.600 --> 02:18:21.420
are dangerous, huh? So for you, 11 hours a week

02:18:21.420 --> 02:18:24.440
is not a lot. For most people, that's a big commitment

02:18:24.440 --> 02:18:27.340
because it's more than an hour a day. And we'll

02:18:27.340 --> 02:18:28.899
say to our patients, like, look, what can you

02:18:28.899 --> 02:18:31.920
do? Can you do six hours a week? But at some

02:18:31.920 --> 02:18:35.760
point, you've got to do it. You can't say, I

02:18:35.760 --> 02:18:39.000
want to live long. I want to be a kick -ass 85

02:18:39.000 --> 02:18:43.020
-year -old and not train for it. It's so logically

02:18:43.020 --> 02:18:48.040
inconsistent. And I want to. be able to hunt

02:18:48.040 --> 02:18:50.219
when I'm 80 and I want to drive a race car when

02:18:50.219 --> 02:18:53.120
I'm 80. Yeah. And if I want to do that, I have

02:18:53.120 --> 02:18:55.780
to put in a lot of time right now to make sure

02:18:55.780 --> 02:18:57.379
I'm strong enough to do those things. Yeah, there's

02:18:57.379 --> 02:19:00.280
no other options, you know, especially for bone

02:19:00.280 --> 02:19:04.180
density. maintaining muscle mass. There's no

02:19:04.180 --> 02:19:06.559
other way to do it. Yeah, the data is overwhelming,

02:19:06.739 --> 02:19:08.840
right? So there's a study that was done that

02:19:08.840 --> 02:19:12.479
looked at 60, I want to say 65 -ish year old

02:19:12.479 --> 02:19:15.620
folks, and it put them on a super high strength

02:19:15.620 --> 02:19:18.879
training program. And in six months, they added

02:19:18.879 --> 02:19:22.819
one, I want to say 1 .7 kilos of muscle mass.

02:19:23.020 --> 02:19:24.520
Wow. That's pretty good. That's like three and

02:19:24.520 --> 02:19:26.120
a half pounds of muscle. For an old person, that's

02:19:26.120 --> 02:19:29.180
very good. Six months of... super dedicated training.

02:19:29.280 --> 02:19:32.139
And I forget exactly how much more protein they

02:19:32.139 --> 02:19:34.260
were feeding them. But so high protein diet,

02:19:34.379 --> 02:19:38.739
high training. A separate study took people of

02:19:38.739 --> 02:19:43.100
basically the same age and put them on 10 days

02:19:43.100 --> 02:19:47.120
of bed rest. They lost 1 .5 kilograms of muscle.

02:19:48.840 --> 02:19:51.979
So 1 .5 kilograms of muscle in 10 days of bed

02:19:51.979 --> 02:19:55.620
rest, and did they get it back quickly? No. That

02:19:55.620 --> 02:19:58.799
was it. It takes a very long time to get it back.

02:19:58.940 --> 02:20:00.899
And you could lose it all in 10 days of bed rest.

02:20:00.920 --> 02:20:03.340
You could lose in 10 days what you got in six

02:20:03.340 --> 02:20:07.440
months. God damn it. So, I mean, it's like, you

02:20:07.440 --> 02:20:10.760
know, it's this sexy, it's this non -sexy, like,

02:20:10.799 --> 02:20:13.840
don't stop exercising. Don't ever get out of

02:20:13.840 --> 02:20:16.360
shape. Right. And avoid injury like the plague.

02:20:16.399 --> 02:20:20.229
And as you get older, This loss of muscle mass,

02:20:20.329 --> 02:20:22.969
what we call sarcopenia, is an enormous killer.

02:20:24.229 --> 02:20:28.069
So sarcopenia is like one of the primary indicators

02:20:28.069 --> 02:20:31.629
that someone's unhealthy. Yes. Sarcobesity, which

02:20:31.629 --> 02:20:33.950
is a term that I don't know who coined it, is

02:20:33.950 --> 02:20:36.489
like the worst of all, right? So that's high

02:20:36.489 --> 02:20:39.209
amounts of fat, low amounts of muscle. And that's

02:20:39.209 --> 02:20:42.290
going to happen to a person naturally, right?

02:20:42.370 --> 02:20:49.620
You're going to lose about a pound. of muscle

02:20:49.620 --> 02:20:51.579
a decade, a little bit more than that, probably

02:20:51.579 --> 02:20:54.299
two pounds of muscle. No, no, I'm sorry. You're

02:20:54.299 --> 02:20:57.639
going to lose about, I want to say lose a pound

02:20:57.639 --> 02:21:00.459
of muscle, gain two pounds of fat every couple

02:21:00.459 --> 02:21:03.500
of years by the time you're 40 if you don't make

02:21:03.500 --> 02:21:05.700
it, if you're not super diligent about avoiding

02:21:05.700 --> 02:21:10.180
it. And do you have a body fat percentage that

02:21:10.180 --> 02:21:12.959
you like to maintain? For me or just for our

02:21:12.959 --> 02:21:16.440
patients? For anybody. No. So I think superficial

02:21:16.440 --> 02:21:20.040
or subcutaneous body fat is so highly genetic

02:21:20.040 --> 02:21:22.360
that we don't really tend to fixate on it that

02:21:22.360 --> 02:21:25.299
much. So in other words, for an individual, we

02:21:25.299 --> 02:21:29.700
care about what their trend is. But I'm not that

02:21:29.700 --> 02:21:34.020
lean anymore. I'm 14%, 13 % body fat. For me

02:21:34.020 --> 02:21:37.920
to be below 10 % body fat, I have to really change

02:21:37.920 --> 02:21:39.940
what I'm eating. And you were at your leanest

02:21:39.940 --> 02:21:42.770
when you were a keto? Yeah. Well, as an adult,

02:21:42.850 --> 02:21:44.489
I was probably leaner when I was boxing. But

02:21:44.489 --> 02:21:49.309
as an adult, my leanest was 7 % when I was keto

02:21:49.309 --> 02:21:52.909
by DEXA. And that was actually not that hard.

02:21:53.209 --> 02:21:57.610
But I was exercising like a fiend and eating

02:21:57.610 --> 02:22:02.030
a stupidly strict ketogenic diet. But what I

02:22:02.030 --> 02:22:05.010
care much more about is visceral fat and what's

02:22:05.010 --> 02:22:08.270
called ALMI. Appendicular lean mass index. And

02:22:08.270 --> 02:22:10.250
you can get both of these numbers off of DEXA.

02:22:10.370 --> 02:22:13.670
So visceral fat is how many pounds of fat do

02:22:13.670 --> 02:22:16.909
you have around your organs. And that's a far

02:22:16.909 --> 02:22:19.250
more important predictor of your lifespan. And

02:22:19.250 --> 02:22:21.370
what causes fat to accumulate around the organs

02:22:21.370 --> 02:22:25.989
versus subcutaneous? Well, the subcutaneous fat

02:22:25.989 --> 02:22:28.930
is sort of just – it's your excess depot. I mean

02:22:28.930 --> 02:22:31.110
you can store an infinite amount of weight there.

02:22:31.229 --> 02:22:34.569
The visceral fat probably has to do with hepatic

02:22:34.569 --> 02:22:40.590
fat. Our liver produces a lot of fat. I mean

02:22:40.590 --> 02:22:42.290
if we're unhealthy, right? So the liver will

02:22:42.290 --> 02:22:47.250
start to store fat. Drunks. People drink a lot.

02:22:47.430 --> 02:22:49.770
Yeah. Alcohol is a huge contributor to it. But

02:22:49.770 --> 02:22:51.750
of course now there's something called non -alcoholic

02:22:51.750 --> 02:22:54.870
fatty liver disease, NAFLD, which is – probably

02:22:54.870 --> 02:22:57.909
the leading indicator for liver transplant in

02:22:57.909 --> 02:23:00.709
the United States now. Whoa. And that seems to

02:23:00.709 --> 02:23:04.729
be mostly driven by fructose. Fructose. Yeah.

02:23:05.090 --> 02:23:08.010
Goddamn corn syrup. Yeah. People want to pretend

02:23:08.010 --> 02:23:11.409
that all fucking sugars are created equal. They're

02:23:11.409 --> 02:23:13.909
not, are they? No. God, no. Isn't that a weird

02:23:13.909 --> 02:23:16.530
thing, though? Why do people want to say that?

02:23:17.149 --> 02:23:19.670
It seems like whether they're contrarian or they

02:23:19.670 --> 02:23:22.610
want to have knowledge that counteracts the narrative

02:23:22.610 --> 02:23:25.170
that people keep hearing. The narrative that

02:23:25.170 --> 02:23:27.170
we keep hearing from people like yourself or

02:23:27.170 --> 02:23:32.190
from a lot of experts is that particularly high

02:23:32.190 --> 02:23:35.049
fructose corn syrup is just really bad for you.

02:23:35.450 --> 02:23:38.110
I mean, I think Rick Johnson's data shows Rick

02:23:38.110 --> 02:23:40.489
Johnson is, I think, the world's expert on fructose.

02:23:42.370 --> 02:23:44.930
What his data show is that there's nothing worse

02:23:44.930 --> 02:23:47.430
than drinking fructose. Like if you really want

02:23:47.430 --> 02:23:54.430
to drink your sugar, you're putting it on the

02:23:54.430 --> 02:23:56.930
fast track to the liver. Because your body does

02:23:56.930 --> 02:23:59.610
not normally encounter that. Your body normally

02:23:59.610 --> 02:24:03.270
encounters fruit with fiber. There's the speed

02:24:03.270 --> 02:24:05.950
with which it basically hits the liver is too

02:24:05.950 --> 02:24:08.290
high. For the liver to process it correctly.

02:24:08.309 --> 02:24:10.329
Yeah, and also it gets into other parts of the

02:24:10.329 --> 02:24:13.489
intestine that it wouldn't get to if you were

02:24:13.489 --> 02:24:16.829
eating it. So if you took 100 grams of sugar

02:24:16.829 --> 02:24:19.250
and you ate it in a solid food versus if you

02:24:19.250 --> 02:24:21.530
drank it, there's actually pretty interesting

02:24:21.530 --> 02:24:25.370
animal data that the fructose that you drink

02:24:25.370 --> 02:24:28.370
is making it all the way into the colon and it's

02:24:28.370 --> 02:24:29.809
actually increasing the risk of colon cancer

02:24:29.809 --> 02:24:31.850
in a way that you wouldn't get it through solid

02:24:31.850 --> 02:24:36.110
consumption. So what about fructose from fruit?

02:24:36.250 --> 02:24:44.200
Is there any danger in that or is it just – You

02:24:44.200 --> 02:24:46.620
know, one of my favorite drinks is a Paloma,

02:24:46.680 --> 02:24:48.459
like as far as like a summer cocktail, right?

02:24:48.559 --> 02:24:51.979
So I noticed this summer when I started making

02:24:51.979 --> 02:24:54.860
them, like how many grapefruits do I need to

02:24:54.860 --> 02:24:59.260
squeeze to get a 500 ml thing of grapefruit juice?

02:24:59.579 --> 02:25:04.520
And it's about 10 grapefruits this big. It kind

02:25:04.520 --> 02:25:06.639
of occurred to me. I was like, it is so easy

02:25:06.639 --> 02:25:08.700
for me to drink this thing. Like I can drink

02:25:08.700 --> 02:25:11.989
500 ml of grapefruit juice. Assume it's orange

02:25:11.989 --> 02:25:14.209
juice. It could drink 500 ml of orange juice

02:25:14.209 --> 02:25:16.870
in one chug. I don't have to think about it.

02:25:16.950 --> 02:25:19.750
Right. Could you eat that many oranges? It could

02:25:19.750 --> 02:25:22.090
be hard. You would really have to be motivated.

02:25:22.450 --> 02:25:26.590
Yeah. So that's why it's just better to eat fruit

02:25:26.590 --> 02:25:29.510
than drink fruit. Just because of basically the

02:25:29.510 --> 02:25:32.850
lower dose. The dose and the velocity. You know,

02:25:32.870 --> 02:25:35.290
I noticed when I was on the carnivore diet for

02:25:35.290 --> 02:25:36.629
a while. How long were you on it, by the way?

02:25:36.670 --> 02:25:39.819
Just a month. I did it one month. No, I did it

02:25:39.819 --> 02:25:41.500
twice. This was like three years ago, two years

02:25:41.500 --> 02:25:43.340
ago? Yeah, about three years ago, and then I

02:25:43.340 --> 02:25:48.700
did it again a year later. Again, a month. One

02:25:48.700 --> 02:25:52.579
thing it does do is you lose weight because you

02:25:52.579 --> 02:25:55.120
just don't eat anything else other than meat,

02:25:55.200 --> 02:25:58.940
and your satiety levels are reached far quicker.

02:26:02.579 --> 02:26:05.000
satiated in terms of like you don't want to eat

02:26:05.000 --> 02:26:07.600
any more steak but if somebody pushed a bowl

02:26:07.600 --> 02:26:09.139
of pasta in front of me and said you could eat

02:26:09.139 --> 02:26:10.620
that too i'd be like oh i'll fucking eat that

02:26:10.620 --> 02:26:13.819
whole thing it's weird and you did this super

02:26:13.819 --> 02:26:15.659
strict you didn't have a single vegetable no

02:26:15.659 --> 02:26:19.579
vegetables i just ate steaks i ate mostly ribeye

02:26:19.579 --> 02:26:24.219
steaks for a month and i lost 12 pounds i got

02:26:24.219 --> 02:26:26.479
ripped how did you feel i felt good i felt a

02:26:26.479 --> 02:26:29.489
little aggressive that was what was odd It was

02:26:29.489 --> 02:26:34.049
like I was a little extra aggro. Not aggro in

02:26:34.049 --> 02:26:36.530
a negative way, like I was more like, ah, like

02:26:36.530 --> 02:26:39.090
I had more. How were your workouts? Not that

02:26:39.090 --> 02:26:42.190
good. The workouts were not that good. Even the

02:26:42.190 --> 02:26:44.709
pure strength workouts? They were okay. Like

02:26:44.709 --> 02:26:46.329
your grappling would be horrible, right? Right,

02:26:46.329 --> 02:26:50.469
that's what I'm saying. They were okay, but my

02:26:50.469 --> 02:26:54.110
ability to maintain for long periods of time

02:26:54.110 --> 02:26:59.790
was not so hot. Whereas I could. I could do like

02:26:59.790 --> 02:27:03.770
a Pavel Tatsalin type workout where I'm doing

02:27:03.770 --> 02:27:08.350
low reps, large amounts of rest in between the

02:27:08.350 --> 02:27:11.829
reps. But like rounds in the bag were horrific.

02:27:12.069 --> 02:27:15.709
It was not good. It was like I got drunk the

02:27:15.709 --> 02:27:17.450
night before or something. Like I was hungover.

02:27:17.629 --> 02:27:20.930
I was like, oh, fucking push. I was trying to

02:27:20.930 --> 02:27:25.270
push. But mental clarity was very high. How was

02:27:25.270 --> 02:27:28.360
your sleep? Not bad. That's no different. No,

02:27:28.440 --> 02:27:31.620
no different. The sleep was high. The sleep was

02:27:31.620 --> 02:27:36.719
fine, rather. Mental clarity was high. But I

02:27:36.719 --> 02:27:40.059
do feel like I had a little bit more grr. I'm

02:27:40.059 --> 02:27:42.020
a little bit more like, I've got to go out and

02:27:42.020 --> 02:27:44.979
fucking get shit done. I had good energy, which

02:27:44.979 --> 02:27:47.159
is odd that it didn't translate into the workouts

02:27:47.159 --> 02:27:50.100
because it really didn't. Well, you were glycogen

02:27:50.100 --> 02:27:53.340
depleted. You were down to 40 % glycogen in your

02:27:53.340 --> 02:27:57.860
muscles. But why did I have mental clarity? You

02:27:57.860 --> 02:28:00.780
probably had ketones floating around and you

02:28:00.780 --> 02:28:04.780
had no glucose fluctuation. No glucose fluctuation,

02:28:04.799 --> 02:28:08.360
I think, is it. Is that a negative way to eat?

02:28:08.760 --> 02:28:12.479
A carnivore? Yeah. I mean, look, I haven't done

02:28:12.479 --> 02:28:21.040
it. It just strikes me as unnatural. I'm sure

02:28:21.040 --> 02:28:22.659
there are some people for whom it's a reasonable

02:28:22.659 --> 02:28:25.120
way to go about it. It's hard for me to understand,

02:28:25.200 --> 02:28:29.079
though. Is it unnatural? Look, the Maasai are

02:28:29.079 --> 02:28:31.100
largely carnivores, right? So there are clearly

02:28:31.100 --> 02:28:33.959
some civilizations who have done it. But we have

02:28:33.959 --> 02:28:36.940
to distinguish between it can be done from it

02:28:36.940 --> 02:28:39.600
is optimal. Those are not the same thing. And

02:28:39.600 --> 02:28:44.520
we're clearly omnivores in your eyes. If one

02:28:44.520 --> 02:28:47.000
was going to - Just like a vegan diet at the

02:28:47.000 --> 02:28:48.719
other end of the spectrum. Can it be done? Sure.

02:28:48.899 --> 02:28:50.719
Is it better than the standard American diet?

02:28:50.899 --> 02:28:53.239
Sure. Is it necessarily the optimal diet? No.

02:28:53.440 --> 02:28:55.520
Why is it necessarily the optimal diet? Just

02:28:55.520 --> 02:28:57.620
because some guy's telling us it is. Well, the

02:28:57.620 --> 02:29:00.979
idea is that I think the vegan diet is the only

02:29:00.979 --> 02:29:03.180
diet that comes with sort of a moral imperative.

02:29:03.500 --> 02:29:05.940
That's right. And I think these folks that do

02:29:05.940 --> 02:29:09.600
it, they're saying, listen, I care about A, climate

02:29:09.600 --> 02:29:12.120
change, B, the animals, all the above, whatever

02:29:12.120 --> 02:29:16.709
it is. So that's a different – like can you do

02:29:16.709 --> 02:29:20.270
it and survive and thrive? Yes, you can. When

02:29:20.270 --> 02:29:22.329
you're doing the carnivore diet, I think their

02:29:22.329 --> 02:29:25.430
idea is that they're trying to avoid plant chemicals

02:29:25.430 --> 02:29:29.149
that plants release when they're being consumed

02:29:29.149 --> 02:29:32.270
by predators, which does happen, right? Yeah,

02:29:32.290 --> 02:29:33.969
I guess I just – I have to feel like we have

02:29:33.969 --> 02:29:38.069
evolved enough tools to – thrive despite plants

02:29:38.069 --> 02:29:41.049
like i just well isn't it also true that there's

02:29:41.049 --> 02:29:45.559
an effect that when you're taking in these plant

02:29:45.559 --> 02:29:50.200
compounds that are designed to ward off predation,

02:29:50.379 --> 02:29:53.120
that your body has a sort of hermetic effect.

02:29:53.479 --> 02:29:57.000
And it's actually somewhat beneficial to have

02:29:57.000 --> 02:29:59.700
those. That's Rhonda Patrick's take on things

02:29:59.700 --> 02:30:04.840
like broccoli sprouts and things along those

02:30:04.840 --> 02:30:07.379
lines, right? I don't have a point of view on

02:30:07.379 --> 02:30:09.319
it. I mean, clearly hormesis is an important

02:30:09.319 --> 02:30:12.739
part of our existence. But I don't know. My null

02:30:12.739 --> 02:30:14.959
hypothesis would be we evolved to eat. plants

02:30:14.959 --> 02:30:18.719
right i just i and vegetable vegetables fruits

02:30:18.719 --> 02:30:22.920
and and meat as well yeah yeah the the but we're

02:30:22.920 --> 02:30:26.059
also super versatile like we can do we can do

02:30:26.059 --> 02:30:29.559
a lot i don't know any elite athletes that do

02:30:29.559 --> 02:30:32.760
just straight carnivore but i do know a lot that

02:30:32.760 --> 02:30:37.100
do carnivore ish so they do mostly meat and then

02:30:37.100 --> 02:30:40.090
they supplement it with fruits And so they'll

02:30:40.090 --> 02:30:43.149
eat like apples and pineapples and things along

02:30:43.149 --> 02:30:46.110
those lines. And they get their glucose essentially

02:30:46.110 --> 02:30:50.170
from fruit. And they basically avoid all plant

02:30:50.170 --> 02:30:53.750
matter, which I also take athletic greens. I

02:30:53.750 --> 02:30:55.290
take that supplement. Dude, I'm freaking obsessed

02:30:55.290 --> 02:30:58.069
with it. It's great stuff, right? I feel good

02:30:58.069 --> 02:31:01.850
when I take it. I go off of that, you know. Oh,

02:31:02.010 --> 02:31:05.250
so yeah, that's interesting. Could you do carnivore

02:31:05.250 --> 02:31:08.290
with AG? Mm -hmm. Yeah. I'd feel a lot better

02:31:08.290 --> 02:31:11.569
if I did that, psychologically. I don't think

02:31:11.569 --> 02:31:14.770
I'd feel right if I was not eating any vegetables.

02:31:15.209 --> 02:31:18.950
I like them. That's the problem. If I have a

02:31:18.950 --> 02:31:23.950
nice salad with tomatoes and onions and olive

02:31:23.950 --> 02:31:27.110
oil and vinegar, I look forward to that. I like

02:31:27.110 --> 02:31:29.850
it. I like to start off a meal with a good salad.

02:31:30.370 --> 02:31:34.120
It tastes good. I like it. It's one of those

02:31:34.120 --> 02:31:36.620
things where I'm not sure that's bad for me.

02:31:37.659 --> 02:31:39.799
I think when I have a bowl of pasta, I like that

02:31:39.799 --> 02:31:41.799
too, but I'm like, oh, you fucking idiot. After

02:31:41.799 --> 02:31:43.860
I eat it, I'm like, oh, dummy, what have you

02:31:43.860 --> 02:31:47.440
done? I never feel like that after I have a salad.

02:31:47.780 --> 02:31:50.479
After a salad, I'm like, good. It was good. I

02:31:50.479 --> 02:31:54.540
liked it. But that's my optimal meal. My optimal

02:31:54.540 --> 02:31:58.110
meal is a good salad and a piece of meat. That's

02:31:58.110 --> 02:32:00.350
what I like the most. And maybe some sort of

02:32:00.350 --> 02:32:03.209
a starch like my favorite sweet potatoes. Sweet

02:32:03.209 --> 02:32:05.770
potatoes are yams. Those are my favorite. Because

02:32:05.770 --> 02:32:09.229
I feel like with those I'm getting all the benefits.

02:32:09.530 --> 02:32:12.610
And I do know that you can take potatoes and

02:32:12.610 --> 02:32:15.610
boil them and then cool them off. And then whatever

02:32:15.610 --> 02:32:19.090
it is that happens to the potato, you lose a

02:32:19.090 --> 02:32:21.090
lot of the negative effects. Yeah, there's this

02:32:21.090 --> 02:32:24.950
whole resistant starch argument. Again, for me,

02:32:25.010 --> 02:32:27.430
I take a much simpler empirical approach to this,

02:32:27.489 --> 02:32:30.629
which is I have in my mind a predefined set of

02:32:30.629 --> 02:32:32.930
metrics around how high I want my glucose to

02:32:32.930 --> 02:32:35.530
be, how much I want it to vary, and where I want

02:32:35.530 --> 02:32:38.829
it to average. And I titrate my intake to that.

02:32:39.049 --> 02:32:42.350
And you wear a constant glucose monitor, right?

02:32:42.469 --> 02:32:44.190
Yeah, yeah. I saw it on your arm. Yeah, yeah,

02:32:44.209 --> 02:32:49.270
yeah. So my activity and my sleep basically determine

02:32:49.270 --> 02:32:52.209
what I eat. And is that monitor working with

02:32:52.209 --> 02:32:54.840
an app? Yeah. What's the app? What's it called?

02:32:54.959 --> 02:32:56.840
This monitor is called Dexcom, so it just works

02:32:56.840 --> 02:33:00.459
with the Dexcom app. And there's another one

02:33:00.459 --> 02:33:03.959
called Libre, the Abbott version of this, but

02:33:03.959 --> 02:33:06.459
it's a bit more cumbersome. How much do you find

02:33:06.459 --> 02:33:08.899
it varies throughout the day, your glucose levels?

02:33:08.899 --> 02:33:11.100
Quite a bit, and it varies a ton with sleep and

02:33:11.100 --> 02:33:14.760
stress. So if you have a bad night of sleep,

02:33:14.879 --> 02:33:16.219
like I don't even wear this when I go hunting.

02:33:17.120 --> 02:33:18.520
Because you don't want to know your data? Well,

02:33:18.559 --> 02:33:20.120
first of all, also there's a part of me that's

02:33:20.120 --> 02:33:23.319
like perhaps naively. worried that any sort of

02:33:23.319 --> 02:33:25.319
Bluetooth signal out there in the field is being

02:33:25.319 --> 02:33:27.959
picked up by a deer. What about your phone? I

02:33:27.959 --> 02:33:30.879
always have it on airplane mode. Oh, okay. But

02:33:30.879 --> 02:33:32.860
also, I just think - Do you think a deer can

02:33:32.860 --> 02:33:35.540
pick up a Bluetooth signal? I have no idea, but

02:33:35.540 --> 02:33:37.139
it's like if I'm going to wear a stupid hex suit,

02:33:37.299 --> 02:33:39.159
I'm going to - Yeah. You know what I mean? Do

02:33:39.159 --> 02:33:43.079
you buy into that hex suit thing? I don't think

02:33:43.079 --> 02:33:44.739
so, but it's one of those things where it's like

02:33:44.739 --> 02:33:48.299
the downside of it. It clearly works with fish.

02:33:48.940 --> 02:33:52.510
Really? Yeah. Yeah, it seems to really work with

02:33:52.510 --> 02:33:56.450
fish. I've talked to people that understand.

02:33:56.909 --> 02:33:58.809
Have you bow hunted fish yet out here? No, I

02:33:58.809 --> 02:34:01.049
have not. I've heard it's awesome, though. Yeah.

02:34:01.350 --> 02:34:04.870
I think spearfishing is the move. I got to get

02:34:04.870 --> 02:34:12.729
that going. That seems like the move. snorkeling

02:34:12.729 --> 02:34:13.670
and spearfishing. You should come to Maui with

02:34:13.670 --> 02:34:15.889
us in June. We're going to go out there, Justin

02:34:15.889 --> 02:34:18.149
Lee and Mark Healy. Do you know those guys? Yeah,

02:34:18.149 --> 02:34:20.790
I know Mark. You know Mark. He's a great guy.

02:34:21.170 --> 02:34:23.889
So they're going to teach me and another buddy

02:34:23.889 --> 02:34:26.989
some serious diving and spearfishing in June.

02:34:27.110 --> 02:34:30.409
Yeah, that's like hunting underwater. Those guys

02:34:30.409 --> 02:34:33.950
are, I mean, that looks incredible. It looks

02:34:33.950 --> 02:34:35.950
so, and for someone who's been so comfortable

02:34:35.950 --> 02:34:39.209
in water, they keep telling me, like they said,

02:34:39.329 --> 02:34:42.489
Justin told me that, Within a couple hours, he'll

02:34:42.489 --> 02:34:45.569
have me down to 75 feet. And I'm like, that can't

02:34:45.569 --> 02:34:48.750
be possible. There's no way I could go to 75

02:34:48.750 --> 02:34:51.350
feet. And he's like, of course you can. You can

02:34:51.350 --> 02:34:54.569
swim 25 yards of a pool holding your breath,

02:34:54.670 --> 02:34:57.010
like there and back, which I can. He's like,

02:34:57.110 --> 02:34:58.790
how could you not do it? And I was like, well,

02:34:58.930 --> 02:35:00.909
when you put it that way, but still, it seems

02:35:00.909 --> 02:35:02.530
so hard. How do you get down there, though? Do

02:35:02.530 --> 02:35:04.690
you have to have a weight on or something? I

02:35:04.690 --> 02:35:07.450
think they do. Yeah, they use long fins and a

02:35:07.450 --> 02:35:10.209
slight weight. And you titrate the weight to

02:35:10.209 --> 02:35:13.010
a certain level of buoyancy, like a slight negative

02:35:13.010 --> 02:35:17.110
buoyancy, I think. And if you're panicking, you

02:35:17.110 --> 02:35:19.389
can release the weight? Yes, I believe you can.

02:35:20.649 --> 02:35:23.690
And how much weight is it? That's funny. I asked

02:35:23.690 --> 02:35:25.409
Justin about this. Now, of course, it depends

02:35:25.409 --> 02:35:27.250
on how thick your wetsuit is, if you're wearing

02:35:27.250 --> 02:35:29.370
a wetsuit and things like that. But it wasn't,

02:35:29.370 --> 02:35:31.510
I want to say it was like eight pounds or something.

02:35:31.569 --> 02:35:33.370
It wasn't like some staggering sum of weight.

02:35:34.239 --> 02:35:37.819
It's amazing. You know the guy who has the world

02:35:37.819 --> 02:35:42.840
record in the static hold? He might have to quit

02:35:42.840 --> 02:35:46.500
his career because he got myocarditis from being

02:35:46.500 --> 02:35:49.239
vaccinated. Oh, really? Yeah, unfortunately.

02:35:50.760 --> 02:35:53.840
He's one of the rare few that gets it, and he

02:35:53.840 --> 02:35:58.879
lost like 30 % of his ability to hold his breath.

02:35:59.079 --> 02:36:02.989
See if you can find that guy's story. Somebody

02:36:02.989 --> 02:36:06.590
just shared it with me. But some of these guys

02:36:06.590 --> 02:36:09.409
can hold their breath for seven, eight. Yeah,

02:36:09.450 --> 02:36:10.850
I was going to say, what's the static apnea record

02:36:10.850 --> 02:36:12.750
now? It's probably approaching 10. Oh, no, but

02:36:12.750 --> 02:36:14.729
I think it's if you preload with oxygen, it's

02:36:14.729 --> 02:36:17.530
different, right? Oh, that's cheating. That should

02:36:17.530 --> 02:36:19.629
be cheating. I want to know what can a person

02:36:19.629 --> 02:36:24.389
just go and hold their breath. And the preloading

02:36:24.389 --> 02:36:27.370
with oxygen, I think David Blaine did something

02:36:27.370 --> 02:36:28.850
insane. He went like 10 minutes or something

02:36:28.850 --> 02:36:33.319
crazy. He's a fascinating guy. He sure is. Have

02:36:33.319 --> 02:36:35.659
you ever met him? No, I've spoken on the phone

02:36:35.659 --> 02:36:37.239
to him. I've never met him. My goodness, dude.

02:36:37.360 --> 02:36:39.719
When you watch him do magic, you're just like,

02:36:39.799 --> 02:36:42.680
what the fuck did I just see? How would you do

02:36:42.680 --> 02:36:45.579
that? He did some crazy shit with us with his

02:36:45.579 --> 02:36:48.360
sleeves rolled up. He wanted us to know that

02:36:48.360 --> 02:36:50.239
his sleeves are rolled up. He's making cards

02:36:50.239 --> 02:36:52.680
disappear. And Jamie and I were like, what the

02:36:52.680 --> 02:36:55.860
fuck did we just see? Where did that go? It's

02:36:55.860 --> 02:36:59.129
really weird. He is pretty amazing. Beyond and

02:36:59.129 --> 02:37:02.829
that whole world of magicians and people who?

02:37:03.409 --> 02:37:07.469
You know understand like how to distract you

02:37:07.469 --> 02:37:10.370
in a way that you don't notice what they're doing

02:37:10.370 --> 02:37:13.569
while they're doing it But they have this insane

02:37:13.569 --> 02:37:16.350
hand dexterity So they're moving in a way that

02:37:16.350 --> 02:37:18.889
a normal person can't even imagine that your

02:37:18.889 --> 02:37:21.290
hands can move And they're shuffling these cards

02:37:21.290 --> 02:37:22.909
in front of you. You don't even seeing what's

02:37:22.909 --> 02:37:25.129
happening Did you see that movie with with Hugh

02:37:25.129 --> 02:37:27.110
Jackman and Christian Bale the prestige? What's

02:37:27.110 --> 02:37:30.069
this here, buddy? This is his post about it.

02:37:30.649 --> 02:37:34.309
I was trying to go to the source. Okay. So this

02:37:34.309 --> 02:37:36.229
is from his Instagram. It says, I want to share

02:37:36.229 --> 02:37:39.770
my annoying experience after vaccination and

02:37:39.770 --> 02:37:43.989
perhaps have some testimonials from similar stories.

02:37:44.829 --> 02:37:47.850
From Free Divers, did you get better? He said,

02:37:47.889 --> 02:37:50.250
after my second dose of the vaccine, I noticed

02:37:50.250 --> 02:37:52.129
my heart rate was way higher than normal and

02:37:52.129 --> 02:37:54.370
my breath hold capacity went down significantly.

02:37:54.430 --> 02:37:57.530
During sleep, I'm at 65 to 70 beats per minute

02:37:57.530 --> 02:38:00.270
instead of 37 to 45 beats per minute. During

02:38:00.270 --> 02:38:03.309
the day, I'm now over, wow, I'm now always over

02:38:03.309 --> 02:38:07.729
100 beats per minute instead of 65, even when

02:38:07.729 --> 02:38:11.600
I sit down and relax. Once I even reach... reached

02:38:11.600 --> 02:38:15.020
177 beats per minute while having dinner with

02:38:15.020 --> 02:38:17.520
friends. Three exclamation points, four exclamation

02:38:17.520 --> 02:38:20.540
points. Ten days after my second jab, I went

02:38:20.540 --> 02:38:22.760
to see a cardiologist, and he told me it's a

02:38:22.760 --> 02:38:25.979
common side effect of Pfizer vaccine. Nothing

02:38:25.979 --> 02:38:29.639
to worry about, just rest. It will pass. Forty

02:38:29.639 --> 02:38:32.450
days. After the second jab, I had no progress,

02:38:32.690 --> 02:38:35.229
so I went to see another cardiologist and got

02:38:35.229 --> 02:38:39.729
diagnosed with myocarditis and trivial mitral

02:38:39.729 --> 02:38:43.090
regurgitation, which is basically an inflammation

02:38:43.090 --> 02:38:45.530
of the heart muscle caused by the immune system

02:38:45.530 --> 02:38:48.969
and some tiny leaks of blood from the valves

02:38:48.969 --> 02:38:52.389
that no longer close properly. I'm now struggling

02:38:52.389 --> 02:38:54.989
to reach eight minutes breath hold, which is

02:38:54.989 --> 02:38:58.690
hilarious. That sounds amazing. 150 -meter...

02:38:59.209 --> 02:39:01.610
D -Y -N, I don't know what that means. And even

02:39:01.610 --> 02:39:04.629
have, what is 150 meter D -Y -N? Do you know

02:39:04.629 --> 02:39:06.010
what that is? I don't know if that's dying as

02:39:06.010 --> 02:39:09.069
in, I don't know. And even have a strong urge

02:39:09.069 --> 02:39:14.270
to breathe doing 40 meter dives. 30 % decrease

02:39:14.270 --> 02:39:17.450
in my diving performance roughly. My first thought

02:39:17.450 --> 02:39:19.629
and recommendation to free divers around the

02:39:19.629 --> 02:39:22.190
world is to choose a vaccine which is done the

02:39:22.190 --> 02:39:26.520
old fashioned way like Sputnik, Sinovac. Sinopharm,

02:39:26.520 --> 02:39:29.659
et cetera, instead of the new mRNA vaccines.

02:39:30.520 --> 02:39:32.840
It's weird because he spells vaccines wrong every

02:39:32.840 --> 02:39:36.840
time. Does he have not spell check? Is he from

02:39:36.840 --> 02:39:39.379
another country? Yeah. Oh, so they spell things

02:39:39.379 --> 02:39:41.940
wrong. Like they spell like tire with a Y in

02:39:41.940 --> 02:39:45.540
England. What's that guy's name? Mr. Ten Minutes.

02:39:45.659 --> 02:39:49.659
Florian Doggery. Mr. Ten Minutes is his. Say

02:39:49.659 --> 02:39:56.180
it. Yeah. Wrong. World record holder for apnea

02:39:56.180 --> 02:40:00.659
diagnosed myocarditis. 1031 was his time. 1031.

02:40:01.620 --> 02:40:04.139
That's so long. Meanwhile, he's complaining he

02:40:04.139 --> 02:40:06.079
can only hold his breath for eight minutes. Like,

02:40:06.120 --> 02:40:09.260
bitch, that's so long. Stop bragging. I mean,

02:40:09.299 --> 02:40:11.360
you know, I was just talking about this with

02:40:11.360 --> 02:40:16.659
a friend yesterday. I do. A year and a half ago,

02:40:16.760 --> 02:40:20.360
I remember thinking. You know, one silver lining

02:40:20.360 --> 02:40:25.700
of COVID is going to be that science will regain

02:40:25.700 --> 02:40:29.100
its place as, you know, an important part of

02:40:29.100 --> 02:40:30.459
our civilization, right? Like there was a day

02:40:30.459 --> 02:40:33.739
in the 1960s when a scientist, an engineer was

02:40:33.739 --> 02:40:35.860
really respected and the best and the brightest

02:40:35.860 --> 02:40:38.360
kids wanted to go into those professions. And

02:40:38.360 --> 02:40:39.559
I don't think that's necessarily the case anymore,

02:40:39.680 --> 02:40:41.639
right? I mean, if you're a super bright kid today,

02:40:41.680 --> 02:40:43.239
you're going to go want to work at Goldman Sachs

02:40:43.239 --> 02:40:45.079
or something like that. And I remember thinking

02:40:45.079 --> 02:40:48.760
like, God, you know. if they develop a vaccine

02:40:48.760 --> 02:40:51.899
to this and, you know, develop a vaccine in a

02:40:51.899 --> 02:40:55.100
year, which is unheard of, it's going to really

02:40:55.100 --> 02:40:57.420
impress people. People are really going to think

02:40:57.420 --> 02:41:00.700
science is amazing. And instead, I think the

02:41:00.700 --> 02:41:02.899
exact opposite has happened, right? I think that

02:41:02.899 --> 02:41:06.020
there has been a fundamental confusion between

02:41:06.020 --> 02:41:09.520
science and advocacy. And I think it has done

02:41:09.520 --> 02:41:11.819
a huge disservice to science in the short term.

02:41:11.920 --> 02:41:14.420
And I don't know where it's going to shake out.

02:41:14.500 --> 02:41:18.399
Like, I wish I had a I wish I had something I

02:41:18.399 --> 02:41:20.459
could go into a crystal ball and look back and

02:41:20.459 --> 02:41:23.139
say in 10 years, how will this have panned out?

02:41:23.239 --> 02:41:27.280
Because guys like this, I completely believe

02:41:27.280 --> 02:41:29.079
that. And I absolutely think that there are lots

02:41:29.079 --> 02:41:31.159
of side effects to vaccines. I still think for

02:41:31.159 --> 02:41:33.600
most people, vaccines are a net positive. But

02:41:33.600 --> 02:41:36.540
I think that there's been so much discussion

02:41:36.540 --> 02:41:40.079
of anything that talks about anything about a

02:41:40.079 --> 02:41:42.159
vaccine that's bad, we can't talk about because

02:41:42.159 --> 02:41:43.899
we've taken this advocacy view, right? So again,

02:41:43.940 --> 02:41:46.100
the difference is... A scientific discussion

02:41:46.100 --> 02:41:48.739
is one that says, let's just talk about the facts,

02:41:48.899 --> 02:41:51.600
let's look at all of the facts, and let's speak

02:41:51.600 --> 02:41:54.299
with varying degrees of certainty and uncertainty.

02:41:55.280 --> 02:41:58.100
An advocacy view says, I have a point of view

02:41:58.100 --> 02:41:59.959
about what is important for your health, what

02:41:59.959 --> 02:42:01.940
I believe is important for your health, and if

02:42:01.940 --> 02:42:04.440
the message is get vaccinated, then we're going

02:42:04.440 --> 02:42:06.799
to talk about that at the expense of talking

02:42:06.799 --> 02:42:09.739
about anything else. Including the negative effects

02:42:09.739 --> 02:42:11.059
of the vaccine. Including the negative effects

02:42:11.059 --> 02:42:14.610
of the vaccine or... Being able to talk about

02:42:14.610 --> 02:42:16.329
it in a nuanced way, and this is going to probably

02:42:16.329 --> 02:42:18.930
get me in a million piles of shit, but I'm not

02:42:18.930 --> 02:42:21.250
excited about getting my four -year -old and

02:42:21.250 --> 02:42:27.129
seven -year -old vaccinated. I look at everything

02:42:27.129 --> 02:42:29.850
through a two -by -two lens of risk and reward.

02:42:31.030 --> 02:42:33.870
You're either picking up pennies or Bitcoins,

02:42:33.930 --> 02:42:36.649
and you're picking them up in front of tricycles

02:42:36.649 --> 02:42:40.409
or trains. That's your risk -reward trade -off.

02:42:42.010 --> 02:42:45.649
If you're an 80 -year -old person, getting vaccinated

02:42:45.649 --> 02:42:49.590
is like picking up a Bitcoin in front of a tricycle.

02:42:49.709 --> 02:42:51.750
It's a no -brainer. It's a no -brainer. Yeah.

02:42:51.850 --> 02:42:55.750
Right? The reward, the Bitcoin, is so worth it

02:42:55.750 --> 02:42:57.750
compared to the downside of getting hit by a

02:42:57.750 --> 02:43:01.409
tricycle, which would hurt. If you're five years

02:43:01.409 --> 02:43:05.510
old, I mean, the risk of dying from influenza

02:43:05.510 --> 02:43:08.409
is five times higher than the risk of dying from

02:43:08.409 --> 02:43:14.059
COVID. If we knew the vaccine was 100 % safe

02:43:14.059 --> 02:43:16.260
and we had a million patients that had taken

02:43:16.260 --> 02:43:18.319
it and we could clearly document what the risk

02:43:18.319 --> 02:43:22.280
was, maybe it's worth it. But I don't know that

02:43:22.280 --> 02:43:26.600
today, right? Now, for me, yeah, it makes sense.

02:43:26.739 --> 02:43:30.159
Like, the risk of me getting myocarditis from

02:43:30.159 --> 02:43:32.379
long COVID is higher than the risk of me getting

02:43:32.379 --> 02:43:34.899
myocarditis from a vaccine. Do you think that's

02:43:34.899 --> 02:43:39.350
true still? Because it probably was true before

02:43:39.350 --> 02:43:43.329
the advent and the use of monoclonal antibodies.

02:43:44.090 --> 02:43:46.209
Yeah, it's a good question. I just had a patient

02:43:46.209 --> 02:43:52.590
who got COVID two weeks ago. So I'm one of his

02:43:52.590 --> 02:43:54.030
doctors, and then he has a primary care doctor

02:43:54.030 --> 02:43:57.190
as well. And we wanted to put him on monoclonal

02:43:57.190 --> 02:43:59.770
antibodies. His primary care doctor didn't want

02:43:59.770 --> 02:44:03.760
to put him on monoclonal antibodies. His risk

02:44:03.760 --> 02:44:06.319
was too low to justify it, given the side effects

02:44:06.319 --> 02:44:09.100
of MABS, but the risk of MABS are pretty darn

02:44:09.100 --> 02:44:11.379
low. So in the end, we get monoclonal antibodies.

02:44:11.860 --> 02:44:14.780
But what is the risks? Oh, I mean, you can have

02:44:14.780 --> 02:44:18.319
a hypersensitivity reaction to it. Very small

02:44:18.319 --> 02:44:20.959
risk. And also, especially if you're monitoring

02:44:20.959 --> 02:44:22.760
a person while they're getting it, it's basically

02:44:22.760 --> 02:44:26.780
a non -existent risk. So my view was, yeah. And

02:44:26.780 --> 02:44:28.459
by the way, have you seen the new Pfizer drug

02:44:28.459 --> 02:44:30.079
that came out, this protease inhibitor that was

02:44:30.079 --> 02:44:33.950
just approved or given a UA? That thing is remarkable.

02:44:34.389 --> 02:44:39.309
Yeah. Like stupidly remarkable. And again, it

02:44:39.309 --> 02:44:42.329
wasn't a huge trial. So I want to see more data.

02:44:42.469 --> 02:44:46.690
But in the roughly 2 ,000 people that got this

02:44:46.690 --> 02:44:49.129
that were divided into two groups, in the placebo

02:44:49.129 --> 02:44:51.709
group, so meaning the people who weren't getting

02:44:51.709 --> 02:44:54.250
an actual drug, the risk of adverse reaction

02:44:54.250 --> 02:44:57.290
was something like 6%. In the drug group, it

02:44:57.290 --> 02:45:02.579
was 2%. Meaning like no adverse reactions. The

02:45:02.579 --> 02:45:05.540
mortality difference was 12 people versus one

02:45:05.540 --> 02:45:09.260
people. So it was a 91 % reduction in death and

02:45:09.260 --> 02:45:12.760
about a 63 % reduction in hospitalization. This

02:45:12.760 --> 02:45:14.639
is a protease inhibitor. So it's a slightly different

02:45:14.639 --> 02:45:18.559
mechanism from the Merck one that is a nucleotide

02:45:18.559 --> 02:45:23.469
inhibitor. So, yeah, I mean, today with... That

02:45:23.469 --> 02:45:26.670
drug with monoclonal antibodies with fluvoxamine.

02:45:26.969 --> 02:45:29.129
Yeah, fluvoxamine, which is fascinating, which

02:45:29.129 --> 02:45:31.809
is an antidepressant. Yeah, it's an SSRI. What

02:45:31.809 --> 02:45:34.870
is the mechanism? I don't know. That's not to

02:45:34.870 --> 02:45:37.129
say one doesn't know, but I don't know. Dr. Drew

02:45:37.129 --> 02:45:40.840
is explaining it to me, but I forgot. We became

02:45:40.840 --> 02:45:43.520
interested in it based on really early reports

02:45:43.520 --> 02:45:46.840
that suggested that it was minimizing long -term

02:45:46.840 --> 02:45:49.360
neurologic fog that some people were experiencing.

02:45:50.159 --> 02:45:52.819
And then there was a JAMA trial and then very

02:45:52.819 --> 02:45:55.379
recently a Lancet trial that was a bigger trial,

02:45:55.500 --> 02:45:58.360
a very well -done trial. And it, on an intention

02:45:58.360 --> 02:46:00.399
to treat basis, so meaning for all the people

02:46:00.399 --> 02:46:02.200
who took the drug versus those who didn't, and

02:46:02.200 --> 02:46:05.600
it's 10 days, 100 milligrams twice a day, there's

02:46:05.600 --> 02:46:08.760
about a 67 % reduction in death and hospitalization.

02:46:09.280 --> 02:46:12.520
Just from an off -the -shelf SSRI. That's fascinating.

02:46:12.680 --> 02:46:17.860
So a cocktail or a stack of fluvoxamine, monoclonal

02:46:17.860 --> 02:46:21.159
antibodies, this Pfizer drug, all those things.

02:46:21.659 --> 02:46:24.780
I had great results with the monoclonal antibodies.

02:46:25.200 --> 02:46:28.780
All anybody focused on was ivermectin when people

02:46:28.780 --> 02:46:33.739
were upset at me. But I said that casually with

02:46:33.739 --> 02:46:35.360
a list of all the other things. I didn't even

02:46:35.360 --> 02:46:39.520
promote it. But for whatever reason, there's

02:46:39.520 --> 02:46:41.959
been some sort of a demonization of that particular

02:46:41.959 --> 02:46:44.959
drug. Make of it what you will. Which, by the

02:46:44.959 --> 02:46:47.520
way, you know the safety profile of ivermectin,

02:46:47.520 --> 02:46:49.399
right? I mean, it's just a horribly dangerous

02:46:49.399 --> 02:46:51.420
drug. Tell me about the safety profile because

02:46:51.420 --> 02:46:53.559
it is kind of hilarious. Tell everybody, I should

02:46:53.559 --> 02:46:56.559
say. Yeah, so the WHO estimates that ivermectin

02:46:56.559 --> 02:47:01.319
has been dosed four billion times since its inception.

02:47:01.850 --> 02:47:03.950
So not necessarily 4 billion people, but 4 billion

02:47:03.950 --> 02:47:06.690
doses of this drug have been administered. And

02:47:06.690 --> 02:47:09.229
in that time, there are a total documented number

02:47:09.229 --> 02:47:12.989
of 28 adverse neurologic responses. This is one

02:47:12.989 --> 02:47:15.850
of the safest drugs ever. There's no antibiotic

02:47:15.850 --> 02:47:18.069
that I'm aware of that has a better safety profile

02:47:18.069 --> 02:47:20.889
than this. When you saw that goofy Rolling Stone

02:47:20.889 --> 02:47:23.850
article that claimed that there was a hospital

02:47:23.850 --> 02:47:27.989
in Oklahoma and that they had gunshot victims

02:47:27.989 --> 02:47:30.549
that were waiting to get into the emergency room

02:47:30.549 --> 02:47:32.750
because they were so - So many people who overdosed

02:47:32.750 --> 02:47:36.250
on ivermectin. What did you think of that? I

02:47:36.250 --> 02:47:37.510
didn't see the article. You didn't see that?

02:47:37.590 --> 02:47:41.670
It is a 100 % fake story. But Rolling Stone printed

02:47:41.670 --> 02:47:45.329
it. And Rachel Maddow tweeted it. And then doubled

02:47:45.329 --> 02:47:48.409
down afterwards. And was claiming that there

02:47:48.409 --> 02:47:51.989
was calls to poison control. Which means jack

02:47:51.989 --> 02:47:54.290
shit if the drug isn't poison, you fucking idiot.

02:47:54.989 --> 02:48:00.979
That's a dumb thing to say. Poison control? Like,

02:48:00.979 --> 02:48:05.459
it's not poison. I mean, look, we had used ivermectin

02:48:05.459 --> 02:48:08.200
in some patients six months ago. We don't use

02:48:08.200 --> 02:48:11.879
it today. So we use fluboxamine today. And I'm

02:48:11.879 --> 02:48:13.620
waiting to see if more data emerged. There are

02:48:13.620 --> 02:48:16.059
five clinical trials registered on clinicaltrials

02:48:16.059 --> 02:48:18.860
.gov that are looking at it. The problem is most

02:48:18.860 --> 02:48:21.059
of the trials on ivermectin to date have been

02:48:21.059 --> 02:48:25.620
very small, and they've looked at many different

02:48:25.620 --> 02:48:28.120
things. So when these people do meta -analyses

02:48:28.120 --> 02:48:32.239
to combine them, the trials are so heterogeneous.

02:48:33.469 --> 02:48:35.569
They have different endpoints. They have different

02:48:35.569 --> 02:48:37.850
doses. They have different durations. They're

02:48:37.850 --> 02:48:40.450
combined with different drugs. It's messy. It's

02:48:40.450 --> 02:48:44.209
so messy. And then there was that one very, very

02:48:44.209 --> 02:48:47.129
fraudulent trial from Egypt. And that really

02:48:47.129 --> 02:48:49.329
diluted things. Wasn't there another one that

02:48:49.329 --> 02:48:53.329
was fraudulent? Possible. I feel like there was

02:48:53.329 --> 02:48:57.870
one that, I want to say, was it Argentina? There

02:48:57.870 --> 02:48:59.709
was one in Brazil that got a lot of talk, but

02:48:59.709 --> 02:49:02.569
I don't know if that was it. So the data's messy.

02:49:03.000 --> 02:49:06.940
And it's also... If you look at the Andrew Hill

02:49:06.940 --> 02:49:10.739
revised meta -analysis, and I think his is probably

02:49:10.739 --> 02:49:13.120
the best, and I think it came out in August,

02:49:13.420 --> 02:49:17.760
it looked at, if you included all those studies,

02:49:17.959 --> 02:49:19.899
including the fraudulent one, it looked really

02:49:19.899 --> 02:49:23.659
good. Ivermectin, with a p -value of less than

02:49:23.659 --> 02:49:28.739
0 .01, had a 90 % reduction in hospital admission

02:49:28.739 --> 02:49:31.250
and death. Now, the minute you stripped out that

02:49:31.250 --> 02:49:33.850
one fraudulent study, the results became way

02:49:33.850 --> 02:49:36.149
less impressive. It went to a 38 % reduction

02:49:36.149 --> 02:49:39.090
with a p -value of 0 .05, which is right on the

02:49:39.090 --> 02:49:40.930
cusp of not even being statistically relevant.

02:49:41.209 --> 02:49:44.170
What about in use of prophylaxis? That's the

02:49:44.170 --> 02:49:47.129
problem. That study included both prophylactic

02:49:47.129 --> 02:49:51.870
use and treatment use. Is one or the other more

02:49:51.870 --> 02:49:54.950
promising? That's a good question. I don't know

02:49:54.950 --> 02:49:57.549
what's being tested in those five studies today.

02:49:59.430 --> 02:50:02.549
But I've – so I shouldn't speak because it's

02:50:02.549 --> 02:50:04.129
just not something I'm – I don't know the data

02:50:04.129 --> 02:50:05.969
well enough. What I was going to say is that

02:50:05.969 --> 02:50:10.069
my – the cocktail that I used, what I called

02:50:10.069 --> 02:50:12.850
the kitchen sink, was monoclonal antibodies,

02:50:13.469 --> 02:50:18.430
ivermectin, IV drips with a high dose of vitamin

02:50:18.430 --> 02:50:22.889
C, glutathione, zinc, and then I did NAD every

02:50:22.889 --> 02:50:25.190
other day. And you didn't do fluvoxamine? No,

02:50:25.190 --> 02:50:27.049
I did not. No. I didn't know about it at the

02:50:27.049 --> 02:50:28.889
time. You should have called me, dude. I should

02:50:28.889 --> 02:50:36.049
have. I was sick in September? September? No.

02:50:36.049 --> 02:50:38.069
Wait, was this before your Alcon? Yeah, it was

02:50:38.069 --> 02:50:39.750
before the Alcon. Quite a bit before the Alcon.

02:50:39.809 --> 02:50:41.709
We're in November now. So it must have been August

02:50:41.709 --> 02:50:45.010
when I got sick. Yeah. Yeah, it must have been

02:50:45.010 --> 02:50:52.040
August. But I was better very quickly. How symptomatic

02:50:52.040 --> 02:50:55.239
were you? I knew when I was coming home something

02:50:55.239 --> 02:50:58.879
was wrong. I was in Florida, which at the time

02:50:58.879 --> 02:51:01.819
it was a hotbed, and I was doing arenas. So I

02:51:01.819 --> 02:51:04.000
was doing stand -up in an arena, and I'm doing

02:51:04.000 --> 02:51:06.399
it in the round. And so this is what it's like.

02:51:06.639 --> 02:51:11.979
So I'm on stage in the round. Around me is 15

02:51:11.979 --> 02:51:15.540
,000 people. They're screaming. It's a COVID

02:51:15.540 --> 02:51:19.260
cloud. And then I go through the audience to

02:51:19.260 --> 02:51:21.340
leave. I go through the audience to get to the

02:51:21.340 --> 02:51:23.719
stage, and I go through the audience to leave.

02:51:23.920 --> 02:51:25.860
And as I'm walking through the audience, people

02:51:25.860 --> 02:51:28.360
are screaming, and they're high -fiving me, and

02:51:28.360 --> 02:51:30.719
they're like, thank you, thank you. I'm shaking

02:51:30.719 --> 02:51:32.639
people's hands, and then I go into the back room.

02:51:32.739 --> 02:51:38.090
So I did that. And then the second night, I went

02:51:38.090 --> 02:51:41.690
to a pool hall. I met my friend John Shoman,

02:51:41.829 --> 02:51:46.209
who's like a legendary pool cue maker. And we

02:51:46.209 --> 02:51:47.930
played pool until like 3 o 'clock in the morning,

02:51:48.069 --> 02:51:50.170
3 .30 in the morning. And I had a bunch of margaritas.

02:51:50.209 --> 02:51:53.270
I was hammered. And I was tired. I was really

02:51:53.270 --> 02:51:55.090
tired. And then I started feeling like shit.

02:51:55.430 --> 02:51:57.629
And I was like, oh, my God, I feel terrible.

02:51:57.770 --> 02:51:59.370
But I just thought I was hungover. Yeah. And

02:51:59.370 --> 02:52:01.940
then the next day. I had a headache and I was

02:52:01.940 --> 02:52:06.620
like, oh, I feel like garbage. But I didn't know

02:52:06.620 --> 02:52:09.719
if I was sick or if I was just hungover. I thought

02:52:09.719 --> 02:52:11.819
I was just hungover. Drank a lot of water, ate

02:52:11.819 --> 02:52:13.500
a bunch of food, had another show that night.

02:52:13.899 --> 02:52:16.340
No problem. Killed. Had a great show. A lot of

02:52:16.340 --> 02:52:20.920
fun. Flying home, I started to feel shitty. But

02:52:20.920 --> 02:52:23.819
again, I wasn't sure because I was pretty fucking

02:52:23.819 --> 02:52:26.879
drunk on Friday night. And I was like, maybe

02:52:26.879 --> 02:52:30.100
that was it. Maybe I need to just go home, get

02:52:30.100 --> 02:52:33.200
in bed, and go to sleep. But when I got home,

02:52:33.260 --> 02:52:37.299
I said to my wife, I said, I feel odd enough

02:52:37.299 --> 02:52:40.159
that I'm going to separate from everybody. And

02:52:40.159 --> 02:52:41.680
my kids were already asleep because I got home

02:52:41.680 --> 02:52:43.780
really late at night. My wife's already had COVID,

02:52:44.020 --> 02:52:47.420
and so I just avoided her and went right to bed.

02:52:47.559 --> 02:52:49.659
And then I was sweating. I was sweating in the

02:52:49.659 --> 02:52:50.620
middle of the night. I was like, this is not

02:52:50.620 --> 02:52:54.319
good. So then I got tested the next day. Are

02:52:54.319 --> 02:52:58.780
you vaccinated? No. Okay. Positive, tested. And

02:52:58.780 --> 02:53:03.260
then right after I got tested, that day I got

02:53:03.260 --> 02:53:06.920
IV vitamin drips. And then the next day I got

02:53:06.920 --> 02:53:10.280
monoclonal antibodies. Within a day of getting

02:53:10.280 --> 02:53:12.020
the monoclonal antibodies, I felt pretty fucking

02:53:12.020 --> 02:53:15.799
good. That would be a Tuesday. By the end of

02:53:15.799 --> 02:53:18.559
Tuesday, I felt pretty good. By Wednesday. I

02:53:18.559 --> 02:53:21.059
made that video that went viral. Right, I remember

02:53:21.059 --> 02:53:23.420
that. That was Wednesday. So that was like three

02:53:23.420 --> 02:53:25.500
days after, and I was like, I feel pretty good.

02:53:25.700 --> 02:53:28.219
And then by Friday, I was testing negative. By

02:53:28.219 --> 02:53:30.239
Thursday, I tested negative on one of those over

02:53:30.239 --> 02:53:32.899
-the -counter tests, but not like - Not on PCR.

02:53:33.260 --> 02:53:36.559
Not on PCR. Friday, I tested negative, and then

02:53:36.559 --> 02:53:39.840
Saturday, I was working out. I mean, I'd put,

02:53:39.879 --> 02:53:42.979
of your cocktail, to me, the Mabs were, that's

02:53:42.979 --> 02:53:44.799
the linchpin. I think so, too. That's what I've

02:53:44.799 --> 02:53:46.680
been telling everybody, that when people get

02:53:46.680 --> 02:53:49.290
sick, I don't know if you've been paying attention

02:53:49.290 --> 02:53:51.510
to this Aaron Rodgers thing. Yeah, a little bit.

02:53:51.670 --> 02:53:55.870
He asked me what to do. Look, in any other world,

02:53:55.930 --> 02:53:59.549
when a friend calls you up and you've been sick

02:53:59.549 --> 02:54:01.750
with something, hey, man, I got the thing that

02:54:01.750 --> 02:54:04.979
you got, what did you do? And I said, I really

02:54:04.979 --> 02:54:07.360
think the monoclonal antibodies helped. And I

02:54:07.360 --> 02:54:09.719
said, do you have access to those? And he did.

02:54:09.920 --> 02:54:13.639
And then I recommended the vitamin drips, IV

02:54:13.639 --> 02:54:16.319
vitamin drips, and be really aggressive with

02:54:16.319 --> 02:54:18.899
it. And then I also recommended NAD. And he did

02:54:18.899 --> 02:54:22.979
those. And he also got better very quickly. This

02:54:22.979 --> 02:54:26.659
is not, it shouldn't be controversial to tell

02:54:26.659 --> 02:54:30.079
someone what you did. I'm not offering unsolicited

02:54:30.079 --> 02:54:33.459
medical advice. I'm not, you know. telling people,

02:54:33.540 --> 02:54:36.479
do this and don't do that. What's odd about his

02:54:36.479 --> 02:54:41.399
case is that he told people he had been, in quotes,

02:54:41.639 --> 02:54:44.459
immunized. I wasn't aware of this until later.

02:54:44.579 --> 02:54:49.200
He had done some sort of a homeopathic, which

02:54:49.200 --> 02:54:52.680
to me always is, it sounds like voodoo. When

02:54:52.680 --> 02:54:54.739
someone says homeopathic, I go, oh, you do voodoo.

02:54:54.799 --> 02:54:57.600
I don't think that's real, right? It's homeopathic.

02:54:57.600 --> 02:54:59.860
One part per billion? What is homeopathic? What

02:54:59.860 --> 02:55:01.569
is that? What does it even mean? It's nonsense.

02:55:01.670 --> 02:55:05.329
It means giving a dose that is so diluted that

02:55:05.329 --> 02:55:07.409
it's non -existent and claiming that there's

02:55:07.409 --> 02:55:09.450
some benefit from it. But what does it mean?

02:55:09.629 --> 02:55:13.610
Why is it homeopathic? What is even the definition

02:55:13.610 --> 02:55:15.270
of that? I don't know what the entomology of

02:55:15.270 --> 02:55:17.690
that word is. Somebody gave me some homeopathic

02:55:17.690 --> 02:55:20.790
medicine once, and it was fucking sugar. When

02:55:20.790 --> 02:55:22.530
I'm taking it, it was like these little pills.

02:55:22.610 --> 02:55:24.790
I was like, this is sugar. It tastes so sweet.

02:55:25.069 --> 02:55:27.450
It seems like sugar. And they're like, no, no,

02:55:27.469 --> 02:55:31.020
no. Arnica or whatever the fuck it was. And I

02:55:31.020 --> 02:55:33.040
was like, bro, this is sugar. This is not fixing

02:55:33.040 --> 02:55:35.739
anything. But anyway, he did some protocol that

02:55:35.739 --> 02:55:39.219
some homeopathic doctor put him on. I don't know

02:55:39.219 --> 02:55:40.959
what the protocol was. I don't know if that would

02:55:40.959 --> 02:55:43.819
even – how could you even do it? Like what could

02:55:43.819 --> 02:55:45.899
immunize you? So he was telling people he had

02:55:45.899 --> 02:55:47.319
been immunized. He was given one copy of the

02:55:47.319 --> 02:55:49.540
virus. Right. I don't even think he was given

02:55:49.540 --> 02:55:54.180
that. But he has an allergy to – what is this

02:55:54.180 --> 02:55:59.770
stuff called again, Jamie? Is an allergy to it's

02:55:59.770 --> 02:56:03.010
an ingredient that is in the mRNA vaccines that

02:56:03.010 --> 02:56:06.329
specifically says on the CDC website that if

02:56:06.329 --> 02:56:09.909
you have this, I have it in my phone. If you

02:56:09.909 --> 02:56:12.809
have this allergy, you actually should not take

02:56:12.809 --> 02:56:15.629
the mRNA vaccine. It says it on the CDC website,

02:56:15.889 --> 02:56:20.270
in which case he would he would have to take

02:56:20.270 --> 02:56:22.149
the Johnson and Johnson. So why didn't he take

02:56:22.149 --> 02:56:24.430
that one? I don't know. I think he was worried

02:56:24.430 --> 02:56:26.030
about blood clots because he was like, right.

02:56:26.299 --> 02:56:28.860
right around the time where people got blood

02:56:28.860 --> 02:56:31.479
clots, where they pulled it for blood clots.

02:56:31.620 --> 02:56:36.139
Which was so ridiculous. Was it? Yeah, six people.

02:56:36.799 --> 02:56:39.360
Six people out of, I mean, I don't remember.

02:56:39.459 --> 02:56:41.159
I did the math on it at the time. I mean, it

02:56:41.159 --> 02:56:45.700
was just another example of failing to basically

02:56:45.700 --> 02:56:48.200
communicate nuance. Is that all it is? Yeah,

02:56:48.260 --> 02:56:50.979
totally. Now, when it comes to VAERS, like VAERS

02:56:50.979 --> 02:56:54.280
reports, how underreported are they? It's a good

02:56:54.280 --> 02:56:55.920
question. I mean, I think they're more reported

02:56:55.920 --> 02:56:58.319
now because I think we're realizing that there

02:56:58.319 --> 02:57:00.739
could be more things going on, right? Like at

02:57:00.739 --> 02:57:04.120
the time, put it this way, when a drug hits the

02:57:04.120 --> 02:57:07.840
market, the insert, the package insert basically

02:57:07.840 --> 02:57:09.840
says these are the side effects we saw in the

02:57:09.840 --> 02:57:11.639
trial. These are the things you should be aware

02:57:11.639 --> 02:57:14.920
of. Well, at some point, the real world application

02:57:14.920 --> 02:57:17.219
of that is going to be greater, meaning the number

02:57:17.219 --> 02:57:19.059
of people that take it is going to be greater

02:57:19.059 --> 02:57:22.469
than what you see in the clinical trial. You

02:57:22.469 --> 02:57:25.309
know, we should see more side effects as time

02:57:25.309 --> 02:57:27.649
goes on. And obviously, it's important that they're

02:57:27.649 --> 02:57:29.590
all reported because most of them are probably

02:57:29.590 --> 02:57:31.489
unrelated to the drug. I mean, we know that from

02:57:31.489 --> 02:57:33.590
clinical trials, like the placebo people are

02:57:33.590 --> 02:57:36.290
having more reactions than the drug people. But

02:57:36.290 --> 02:57:38.729
only by kind of capturing all of them will we

02:57:38.729 --> 02:57:42.950
see if a pattern's emerging. I think that's,

02:57:42.950 --> 02:57:45.750
I don't know. I mean, that to me is what's disappointing

02:57:45.750 --> 02:57:48.930
in all this is just that somehow this has turned

02:57:48.930 --> 02:57:53.059
into. Anything that questions the safety of this

02:57:53.059 --> 02:57:56.340
or the benefit of that somehow means you're anti

02:57:56.340 --> 02:57:59.680
that. I mean, I'm a very pro -vaccine person,

02:57:59.799 --> 02:58:04.440
but I still think to not ask the questions about

02:58:04.440 --> 02:58:07.739
the risk versus reward trade -off. The Financial

02:58:07.739 --> 02:58:10.760
Times did a really nice analysis a few months

02:58:10.760 --> 02:58:15.379
ago that plotted by decade what the risk reduction

02:58:15.379 --> 02:58:20.100
was from the vaccine. So if you were 85, it took

02:58:20.100 --> 02:58:25.299
you from a risk of 2 % down to a risk of 0 .05

02:58:25.299 --> 02:58:27.840
% or something like that. And it did this if

02:58:27.840 --> 02:58:30.139
you're 80, 70, did it all the way down to 20.

02:58:30.899 --> 02:58:33.020
And the first thing that jumps out at you, so

02:58:33.020 --> 02:58:35.079
their purpose of doing this analysis was to show

02:58:35.079 --> 02:58:38.489
that in... Immunized 80 -year -old has the same

02:58:38.489 --> 02:58:40.930
risk as an unimmunized 50 -year -old, which is

02:58:40.930 --> 02:58:42.309
pretty cool because a 50 -year -old is in pretty

02:58:42.309 --> 02:58:44.229
good shape. So if you're 80 and you get the vaccine,

02:58:44.430 --> 02:58:46.469
you're now like a 50 -year -old walking around.

02:58:47.389 --> 02:58:49.010
But two things I found interesting about this.

02:58:49.069 --> 02:58:52.030
The first was everybody experienced about a 1

02:58:52.030 --> 02:58:55.909
.5 log reduction in risk. So a log is 10x. A

02:58:55.909 --> 02:59:01.129
2 log is 100x. So 1 .5 log, just call it directionally,

02:59:01.129 --> 02:59:07.620
a 20x reduction in risk. So at the surface, that

02:59:07.620 --> 02:59:10.139
says everybody should get vaccinated because

02:59:10.139 --> 02:59:14.440
the risk is always a 20x. But if you don't know

02:59:14.440 --> 02:59:19.239
the harm of the thing, then that risk at some

02:59:19.239 --> 02:59:21.420
point won't be worth it, the risk reduction.

02:59:21.959 --> 02:59:24.899
Because a 20x reduction when you're starting

02:59:24.899 --> 02:59:29.840
at 2 % means you only need to treat 100 people

02:59:29.840 --> 02:59:33.559
to get the benefit. But if you're a 40 -year

02:59:33.559 --> 02:59:36.809
-old or a 30 -year -old, and your starting point

02:59:36.809 --> 02:59:42.149
of risk is so low, a 20x reduction requires you

02:59:42.149 --> 02:59:45.329
to treat 10 ,000 people to see a benefit. So

02:59:45.329 --> 02:59:47.729
at some point, these curves intersect, the curve

02:59:47.729 --> 02:59:50.850
of risk from the vaccine and the curve of benefit

02:59:50.850 --> 02:59:53.170
from the vaccine. And that's where children come

02:59:53.170 --> 02:59:56.489
into play. And that's where, by my math, below

02:59:56.489 --> 02:59:59.510
the age of 13, I'm having a hard time seeing

02:59:59.510 --> 03:00:02.750
the data with the limited data set we have. I

03:00:02.750 --> 03:00:04.989
only have anecdotal evidence based on my own

03:00:04.989 --> 03:00:07.590
children. They both got COVID and it was nothing.

03:00:08.370 --> 03:00:10.790
I know that children have died from COVID, but

03:00:10.790 --> 03:00:13.610
I also know that those children, almost all of

03:00:13.610 --> 03:00:17.670
them had pretty severe comorbidities. Yeah. I

03:00:17.670 --> 03:00:19.670
mean, I don't know the latest data. I know the

03:00:19.670 --> 03:00:23.049
New York database, which, you know, again, we're

03:00:23.049 --> 03:00:26.090
talking about, I mean, kids are dying way more

03:00:26.090 --> 03:00:28.889
commonly from influenza, from rotavirus, from

03:00:28.889 --> 03:00:32.200
other things like that. So, again, look, if in

03:00:32.200 --> 03:00:34.840
a year we have enough evidence where that vaccine

03:00:34.840 --> 03:00:37.940
is just as safe as the MMR vaccine, great. Let's

03:00:37.940 --> 03:00:41.399
do it. I'm just saying, like, it's not as pressing

03:00:41.399 --> 03:00:45.100
as it was for someone like me. I thought even

03:00:45.100 --> 03:00:46.920
though my risk from dying of COVID was really

03:00:46.920 --> 03:00:49.940
low, I was more concerned with sort of the comorbidities

03:00:49.940 --> 03:00:54.680
of COVID. Right. There's been talk of people

03:00:54.680 --> 03:00:59.559
getting vaccinated. And then catching COVID afterwards

03:00:59.559 --> 03:01:04.639
being one of the best ways to get really strong

03:01:04.639 --> 03:01:08.340
immunity. Because if you get vaccinated, you

03:01:08.340 --> 03:01:10.639
have a protection from death and hospitalization.

03:01:10.739 --> 03:01:13.600
And then if you get COVID, then you get the much

03:01:13.600 --> 03:01:16.280
more robust immunity that's imparted by the actual

03:01:16.280 --> 03:01:19.000
natural immunity from the infection. I think

03:01:19.000 --> 03:01:22.180
probably you're also getting – vaccines are,

03:01:22.360 --> 03:01:24.879
depending on which one you get, are typically

03:01:24.879 --> 03:01:29.209
– highlighting B -cell or T -cell response. So

03:01:29.209 --> 03:01:32.290
the mRNA vaccines are really good at inducing

03:01:32.290 --> 03:01:35.010
B -cell immunity, which is antibody -based immunity.

03:01:35.569 --> 03:01:39.229
The adenovirus vaccines are better at inducing

03:01:39.229 --> 03:01:41.549
T -cell immunity, totally different type of immunity.

03:01:41.709 --> 03:01:43.989
What is more effective at stopping the virus?

03:01:44.510 --> 03:01:48.729
It's not clear, but my two cents on this as a

03:01:48.729 --> 03:01:52.850
former immunologist, but speaking like out of

03:01:52.850 --> 03:01:56.409
his ass a bit is... I think the best way to vaccinate

03:01:56.409 --> 03:01:59.829
will be one of each. I think that if you got

03:01:59.829 --> 03:02:02.969
an mRNA vaccine, and we don't have data on this

03:02:02.969 --> 03:02:05.270
yet, but I hope that we do have data to test

03:02:05.270 --> 03:02:07.209
this hypothesis. So you would get like one shot

03:02:07.209 --> 03:02:09.549
of the J &J, wait a while, and then one shot

03:02:09.549 --> 03:02:13.270
of the Pfizer. Exactly. So my plan is to probably

03:02:13.270 --> 03:02:16.209
wait until Novavax gets approved in the U .S.

03:02:16.209 --> 03:02:18.629
before I get a booster and then boost with that

03:02:18.629 --> 03:02:21.590
or J &J. And what is Novavax? I think it's an

03:02:21.590 --> 03:02:23.940
adeno. What's the difference between that and

03:02:23.940 --> 03:02:26.280
the adeno that we have now? It just seems more

03:02:26.280 --> 03:02:28.340
effective. So if you look at the European data,

03:02:28.500 --> 03:02:32.420
it seems more effective than even the mRNA vaccines.

03:02:32.700 --> 03:02:36.260
Now, when you see people getting myocarditis

03:02:36.260 --> 03:02:39.440
and pericarditis and strokes and what have you,

03:02:39.479 --> 03:02:42.459
do you think some of that has to do with not

03:02:42.459 --> 03:02:46.280
aspirating? Like if someone is shooting the vaccine

03:02:46.280 --> 03:02:49.059
directly into a vein inadvertently because they

03:02:49.059 --> 03:02:51.420
didn't aspirate? Do you think that that could

03:02:51.420 --> 03:02:53.260
be causing some of these side effects? Because

03:02:53.260 --> 03:02:57.059
even when they did Joe Biden on television, they

03:02:57.059 --> 03:03:00.280
did not aspirate. And I was shocked. I'm watching

03:03:00.280 --> 03:03:01.860
this. I'm like, I can't believe they just shot

03:03:01.860 --> 03:03:04.739
that into his arm. That's crazy. You're supposed

03:03:04.739 --> 03:03:07.479
to aspirate, correct? Yeah. Although typically

03:03:07.479 --> 03:03:10.239
with these intramuscular injections, they don't

03:03:10.239 --> 03:03:14.360
really aspirate. I remember the first time I

03:03:14.360 --> 03:03:16.200
would teach a patient how to inject testosterone,

03:03:16.479 --> 03:03:19.020
for example, if they're doing it in the upper

03:03:19.020 --> 03:03:20.639
part of their glute, which is where you're supposed

03:03:20.639 --> 03:03:23.139
to do it. I would say, look, there's enough blood

03:03:23.139 --> 03:03:25.280
vessels there and it's a big enough needle, even

03:03:25.280 --> 03:03:28.959
though it's like a 23 gauge or maybe a 25. Just

03:03:28.959 --> 03:03:33.399
do a quick aspiration. Typically in the deltoid,

03:03:33.399 --> 03:03:35.079
you know, there's not really huge blood vessels

03:03:35.079 --> 03:03:37.450
there. I don't know. I mean, that's an interesting

03:03:37.450 --> 03:03:40.489
hypothesis. Yeah, because it's a limited number,

03:03:40.590 --> 03:03:43.709
right? And if this stuff is causing this problem,

03:03:43.889 --> 03:03:45.790
like why is it causing this problem with some

03:03:45.790 --> 03:03:48.649
people and not others? And if you're supposed

03:03:48.649 --> 03:03:52.790
to aspirate but no one does, like is that – I

03:03:52.790 --> 03:03:55.069
mean, there are blood vessels there, right? Yeah.

03:03:55.129 --> 03:03:57.329
I mean, they're tiny at that point, right, because

03:03:57.329 --> 03:03:59.649
they're typically jabbing you with a little needle

03:03:59.649 --> 03:04:02.469
like this. What's more interesting is has anybody

03:04:02.469 --> 03:04:06.549
looked at the amount of muscle mass? in the different

03:04:06.549 --> 03:04:08.049
people who are getting this? In other words,

03:04:08.049 --> 03:04:09.809
are you more likely to get this? Are you less

03:04:09.809 --> 03:04:11.729
likely to get it in a muscular person because

03:04:11.729 --> 03:04:14.370
there's such a big target and you're almost guaranteed

03:04:14.370 --> 03:04:16.270
to be putting it right into the muscle? That's

03:04:16.270 --> 03:04:19.870
an interesting question. That makes more sense.

03:04:20.409 --> 03:04:23.290
That actually does make sense, right? Again,

03:04:23.409 --> 03:04:26.610
it's wild speculation, but worth testing. To

03:04:26.610 --> 03:04:32.829
me, when I hear about therapies now, I feel like

03:04:32.829 --> 03:04:35.659
it's a shame. that the only thing that gets discussed

03:04:35.659 --> 03:04:39.879
is the vaccine. And in particular, wanting people

03:04:39.879 --> 03:04:41.879
to get vaccinated that have already recovered

03:04:41.879 --> 03:04:44.260
from COVID seems asinine to me. It doesn't make

03:04:44.260 --> 03:04:48.200
any sense. When we have these therapies that

03:04:48.200 --> 03:04:50.079
are available, these therapeutics, whether it's

03:04:50.079 --> 03:04:52.579
the new Pfizer stuff or for sure the monoclonal

03:04:52.579 --> 03:04:55.819
antibodies, which are very effective, why would

03:04:55.819 --> 03:05:00.819
anybody be continually pushing the vaccine on

03:05:00.819 --> 03:05:02.860
people who have already had COVID and recovered?

03:05:03.819 --> 03:05:06.979
I don't know. And I think what's even more hard

03:05:06.979 --> 03:05:09.860
for me to understand is why people are still

03:05:09.860 --> 03:05:13.180
being told to wear masks. Yeah. I mean, it's

03:05:13.180 --> 03:05:16.399
so logically inconsistent with what is so obviously

03:05:16.399 --> 03:05:20.739
inevitable. SARS -CoV -2 is never going away.

03:05:21.559 --> 03:05:24.000
Like, it's never going away, right? In 50 years,

03:05:24.040 --> 03:05:27.040
this virus in one form or another will be a part

03:05:27.040 --> 03:05:31.280
of our ecosystem. So when I see... You know,

03:05:31.280 --> 03:05:33.420
the head of the CDC talking about the importance

03:05:33.420 --> 03:05:37.059
of wearing masks. I'm saying to myself, is the

03:05:37.059 --> 03:05:38.840
implication of what you're saying that we will

03:05:38.840 --> 03:05:41.940
wear masks forever? Because if it's important

03:05:41.940 --> 03:05:44.399
to wear a mask today for some reason that I can't

03:05:44.399 --> 03:05:46.899
understand, it will presumably be just as important

03:05:46.899 --> 03:05:50.360
in 50 years. So is that just the new world order?

03:05:51.000 --> 03:05:52.840
Masks everywhere. I'll never be able to go to

03:05:52.840 --> 03:05:54.899
an airport again without wearing a mask. You

03:05:54.899 --> 03:05:57.200
know, I mean. We should just accept the fact

03:05:57.200 --> 03:05:59.440
that this virus is here to stay. So let's worry

03:05:59.440 --> 03:06:02.040
more about the resilience that we're going to

03:06:02.040 --> 03:06:05.200
develop around this as opposed to, quote unquote,

03:06:05.299 --> 03:06:08.040
containment. Do you know Naval, Naval Rob? Yeah,

03:06:08.059 --> 03:06:10.860
he he tweeted something I thought that was very

03:06:10.860 --> 03:06:14.440
appropriate. He said this virus, this pandemic

03:06:14.440 --> 03:06:16.920
is not going to end when everyone is vaccinated.

03:06:17.059 --> 03:06:20.620
It's going to end when everyone's infected. Everyone

03:06:20.620 --> 03:06:23.600
will be infected. There's zero doubt in my mind.

03:06:23.700 --> 03:06:26.299
Everyone will get this virus. And you haven't

03:06:26.299 --> 03:06:28.500
gotten it yet? Not to my knowledge. Have you

03:06:28.500 --> 03:06:30.020
checked your antibodies? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,

03:06:30.040 --> 03:06:31.899
constantly. Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get tested

03:06:31.899 --> 03:06:33.899
all the time for whatever reason. I mean, can

03:06:33.899 --> 03:06:35.479
I get tested again tonight? I got tested here.

03:06:35.520 --> 03:06:36.920
I'm going to go get tested in an hour. Oh, that's

03:06:36.920 --> 03:06:39.120
right. So you're going to go to Formula One in

03:06:39.120 --> 03:06:41.979
Brazil? Yeah. Wow, you're a wild man. Oh, Brazil's

03:06:41.979 --> 03:06:44.360
an amazing circuit. Oh, I've been to Brazil.

03:06:44.379 --> 03:06:45.959
You've been to Aerologos? I've never been to

03:06:45.959 --> 03:06:47.000
the circuit, but I've been to Brazil for the

03:06:47.000 --> 03:06:50.020
UFC multiple times. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How did

03:06:50.020 --> 03:06:51.879
you like the F1 here this year? It was pretty

03:06:51.879 --> 03:06:54.379
wild. Have you been to many races? No, that's

03:06:54.379 --> 03:06:56.040
the first one I've ever been to. What corner

03:06:56.040 --> 03:06:57.760
did you sit at? I can't imagine that. I don't

03:06:57.760 --> 03:06:59.760
know. It was in the Goldman Sachs fucking thing.

03:06:59.920 --> 03:07:03.440
But I can't imagine that this is the only Formula

03:07:03.440 --> 03:07:06.760
One race course in America. It's the only built

03:07:06.760 --> 03:07:09.100
-for -purpose one like this. I mean, the U .S.

03:07:09.180 --> 03:07:12.299
almost has always had a Grand Prix. But they

03:07:12.299 --> 03:07:15.059
do it in streets, right? Yeah, or Watkins Glen

03:07:15.059 --> 03:07:18.790
was an actual circuit or street circuits. Koda's

03:07:18.790 --> 03:07:20.450
amazing. I mean, that was sort of one of the

03:07:20.450 --> 03:07:22.829
huge perks of moving to Austin for me was to

03:07:22.829 --> 03:07:25.729
have this circuit in my backyard. Well, you're

03:07:25.729 --> 03:07:28.250
a freak when it comes to racing. I mean, you

03:07:28.250 --> 03:07:30.250
love that shit. That is your thing. I freaking

03:07:30.250 --> 03:07:33.469
love it, man. Look, my son is named after the

03:07:33.469 --> 03:07:35.329
greatest driver of all time. What's your son's

03:07:35.329 --> 03:07:38.370
name? My youngest son is Ayrton. Oh, Ayrton Senna.

03:07:38.450 --> 03:07:40.930
Yeah. Okay. I watched that documentary on him.

03:07:41.229 --> 03:07:44.430
Amazing. It's wild. Yeah. The video that you

03:07:44.430 --> 03:07:46.389
were showing me today of your little Formula

03:07:46.389 --> 03:07:49.159
One car. That's Formula 3. Formula 3 car, whatever

03:07:49.159 --> 03:07:51.940
the fuck it is. That thing, that little tiny

03:07:51.940 --> 03:07:54.239
car that you're whizzing around in, that's a

03:07:54.239 --> 03:07:57.979
wow video. I mean, it is. Where do you store

03:07:57.979 --> 03:08:00.579
that thing? Do you have that at your house? No,

03:08:00.579 --> 03:08:03.760
no, no, no, no, no, no. So I actually rent that

03:08:03.760 --> 03:08:07.559
car from a guy who has it stored in Houston.

03:08:07.700 --> 03:08:09.959
Because the real thing with those cars is you

03:08:09.959 --> 03:08:12.040
have to have an amazing mechanic. Like you have

03:08:12.040 --> 03:08:15.379
to have a person who. Because you're always fixing

03:08:15.379 --> 03:08:16.940
something in those cars, right? They're not that

03:08:16.940 --> 03:08:19.500
expensive to buy, but they're expensive to run.

03:08:19.680 --> 03:08:22.079
Right. And it's not just the tires. It's like,

03:08:22.219 --> 03:08:25.559
I mean, just the other day, that video from that

03:08:25.559 --> 03:08:28.280
day, I mean, like the auto blips stopped working.

03:08:28.520 --> 03:08:31.600
So the first session I was out there. You know

03:08:31.600 --> 03:08:33.559
what auto blip is, but just for someone listening.

03:08:33.719 --> 03:08:37.520
So when you're downshifting a manual car, you

03:08:37.520 --> 03:08:40.280
have to rev match. You have to be able to, as

03:08:40.280 --> 03:08:42.719
the clutch is in, you have to be able to hit

03:08:42.719 --> 03:08:45.799
the throttle a little bit so that the RPM goes

03:08:45.799 --> 03:08:47.860
up. And then as it's winding its way down is

03:08:47.860 --> 03:08:49.940
when you want to drop the gear so that you've

03:08:49.940 --> 03:08:52.500
rev matched so that you don't engine brake and

03:08:52.500 --> 03:08:56.870
unnecessarily slow down. in formula cars they

03:08:56.870 --> 03:08:58.989
auto blip because you're using paddle shifters

03:08:58.989 --> 03:09:02.309
now and that means anytime you do a downshift

03:09:02.309 --> 03:09:05.469
the the sensor knows it and just hits a little

03:09:05.469 --> 03:09:08.829
blip so i'm out there driving and like at the

03:09:08.829 --> 03:09:10.950
high gears when i'm going six to five and five

03:09:10.950 --> 03:09:13.889
to four it's working but when i'm going three

03:09:13.889 --> 03:09:16.389
to two i'm not shifting i'm just staying in third

03:09:16.389 --> 03:09:19.399
and it's There's enough slow corners at Koda

03:09:19.399 --> 03:09:22.600
where it's a total disaster. The guys behind

03:09:22.600 --> 03:09:24.500
me are going to bump into me because I can't

03:09:24.500 --> 03:09:27.340
accelerate off the line. So after two sessions

03:09:27.340 --> 03:09:29.000
of this, we're looking at the telemetry. We're

03:09:29.000 --> 03:09:31.780
looking at the data to see why am I not doing

03:09:31.780 --> 03:09:33.620
this, and we can't figure it out. We're like,

03:09:33.659 --> 03:09:36.579
maybe I'm thinking I'm making a mistake, and

03:09:36.579 --> 03:09:38.139
then we finally figure it out. No, the auto blip

03:09:38.139 --> 03:09:41.219
sensor stopped working. They use auto blip on

03:09:41.219 --> 03:09:43.899
a lot of new cars, like new manual cars. Yeah,

03:09:43.899 --> 03:09:45.860
yeah, yeah. And Formula One cars are all auto

03:09:45.860 --> 03:09:48.979
blip, which is interesting because when I learned

03:09:48.979 --> 03:09:52.459
to drive paddle shift, I always blipped myself

03:09:52.459 --> 03:09:56.139
because you left foot brake. So you heel -toe.

03:09:56.500 --> 03:09:59.780
No, you don't have to. In my MX -5, I have to

03:09:59.780 --> 03:10:02.159
heel -toe because I still have a clutch. Oh,

03:10:02.180 --> 03:10:04.540
okay. In the Formula car, you only need the clutch

03:10:04.540 --> 03:10:07.639
to get into first gear and reverse. Once you're

03:10:07.639 --> 03:10:10.000
into first, you don't need the clutch anymore,

03:10:10.219 --> 03:10:13.379
so I left -foot brake. Oh. Boy, my left foot

03:10:13.379 --> 03:10:15.979
is a dummy. My left foot, I've tried to hit the

03:10:15.979 --> 03:10:18.559
brakes before. My left foot's like... I have

03:10:18.559 --> 03:10:23.000
no nuance with my left foot. On a street car...

03:10:23.209 --> 03:10:26.510
I still right foot brake. And anytime I try to

03:10:26.510 --> 03:10:28.110
left foot brake, I do the same thing. I'm like,

03:10:28.149 --> 03:10:30.469
dude, what is wrong with you? It's so bad. But

03:10:30.469 --> 03:10:34.510
somehow in a formula car, I feel very comfortable

03:10:34.510 --> 03:10:36.250
left foot braking. Maybe it's just like your

03:10:36.250 --> 03:10:38.659
brain tells you we're racing now. You know, we're

03:10:38.659 --> 03:10:41.100
on a racetrack. Because when I try to hit the

03:10:41.100 --> 03:10:43.059
brakes with my left foot, I'm like, you don't

03:10:43.059 --> 03:10:44.200
know what you're doing. Well, you just don't

03:10:44.200 --> 03:10:46.860
have the feel for it. I know, but it's crazy

03:10:46.860 --> 03:10:50.379
how bad it is. Because my right foot is so adept

03:10:50.379 --> 03:10:53.299
at it. But I have a simulator too, so most of

03:10:53.299 --> 03:10:55.899
my reps are in a simulator. Well, yeah, you have

03:10:55.899 --> 03:10:58.000
this amazing system at your house, and I'm very

03:10:58.000 --> 03:11:00.000
jealous. I need to get one of those. Dude, I

03:11:00.000 --> 03:11:01.319
have a new one. You should come over and check

03:11:01.319 --> 03:11:03.760
it out. I'm scared. I'm scared I'll be fucking

03:11:03.760 --> 03:11:06.260
racing with you. You don't get motion sick, do

03:11:06.260 --> 03:11:08.500
you? No, I don't. Because that's the only thing

03:11:08.500 --> 03:11:11.139
is, like, I have put friends in there, and they

03:11:11.139 --> 03:11:13.379
get sick as shit. Oh, that sounds awesome. No,

03:11:13.459 --> 03:11:16.600
I don't get motion sick, luckily. But that system

03:11:16.600 --> 03:11:18.299
that you have, like, I should tell everybody,

03:11:18.459 --> 03:11:20.739
Peter has this thing where you have, like, a

03:11:20.739 --> 03:11:23.879
steering wheel that's a yoke, right? Which is,

03:11:23.899 --> 03:11:25.860
by the way, I have that on my Tesla. I'm getting

03:11:25.860 --> 03:11:30.860
used to this yoke, which is not a fan for a fucking

03:11:30.860 --> 03:11:33.979
street car. I think it's goofy. But that's how

03:11:33.979 --> 03:11:36.340
the car comes. Yeah, yeah. But then you have

03:11:36.340 --> 03:11:38.959
this huge screen that's kind of curved, right?

03:11:39.079 --> 03:11:41.200
Is it curved? I have three screens that wrap

03:11:41.200 --> 03:11:44.239
around me, yeah. And then you have a real clutch

03:11:44.239 --> 03:11:47.139
and a real brake and a real accelerator. So you're

03:11:47.139 --> 03:11:50.020
treating this like you're essentially seeing

03:11:50.020 --> 03:11:52.899
a very close simulation to what you would be

03:11:52.899 --> 03:11:56.510
seeing on a racetrack. Yeah. I mean, the... You

03:11:56.510 --> 03:11:58.489
know, simulators come in all shapes and sizes.

03:11:58.530 --> 03:11:59.889
You can spend a million dollars on a simulator.

03:12:00.069 --> 03:12:01.489
What? If you're a Formula One team, that's what

03:12:01.489 --> 03:12:03.149
they're spending, right? What? The F1 teams have

03:12:03.149 --> 03:12:05.309
million -dollar simulators. What does that look

03:12:05.309 --> 03:12:09.750
like? It's a real car, and it has six degrees

03:12:09.750 --> 03:12:13.209
of movement. So it moves this way. Oh, my God.

03:12:13.270 --> 03:12:16.489
Pull that up. It moves up and down, and it moves

03:12:16.489 --> 03:12:19.610
this way. Oh, boy. So you get to simulate every

03:12:19.610 --> 03:12:21.430
aspect of it. That's right. So it's like a flight

03:12:21.430 --> 03:12:23.989
simulator for, like, a combat pilot. That's right.

03:12:24.590 --> 03:12:28.079
Wow. So then, so you've got that end, right?

03:12:28.159 --> 03:12:29.840
And what is the visuals? What are they seeing?

03:12:30.299 --> 03:12:35.360
It's still three screen. So VR, last year, no,

03:12:35.479 --> 03:12:37.319
actually earlier this year, I did the VR experiment.

03:12:37.360 --> 03:12:40.620
So I bought the four best VR devices on the market.

03:12:40.719 --> 03:12:42.659
Like I said, cost is irrelevant. I don't care.

03:12:42.680 --> 03:12:45.059
Just let me get the best four. Right. Tried each

03:12:45.059 --> 03:12:47.760
of them out. Total garbage. Really? Yeah, total

03:12:47.760 --> 03:12:50.079
crap. For someone like you that knows how to

03:12:50.079 --> 03:12:52.819
race? No, no. I think for any car simulator.

03:12:52.819 --> 03:12:57.420
So this is it? Whoa. So this does not look like

03:12:57.420 --> 03:13:00.879
three screens. This is like a giant screen. This

03:13:00.879 --> 03:13:04.899
isn't typically the ones that... This is fucking

03:13:04.899 --> 03:13:09.700
wild. So this seems like this guy is really driving.

03:13:10.000 --> 03:13:13.020
Oh, he has one huge curved screen, yeah. That

03:13:13.020 --> 03:13:16.459
is wild. That's a million -dollar racing simulator,

03:13:16.639 --> 03:13:19.920
it says. So he's got the full cage. He's in a

03:13:19.920 --> 03:13:22.479
car. Oh, my God. This is fucking incredible.

03:13:23.419 --> 03:13:27.079
This is incredible. It's insane. You can never

03:13:27.079 --> 03:13:29.020
have too much money, Peter, because this is one

03:13:29.020 --> 03:13:32.020
of the things you want. You know what's funny

03:13:32.020 --> 03:13:34.479
about this simulator, or these ones in general,

03:13:34.559 --> 03:13:36.520
is the size of the room you need to put them

03:13:36.520 --> 03:13:40.500
in. So this guy's experiencing shake in his hands.

03:13:40.500 --> 03:13:42.180
Oh, as do I. So that's the thing I was going

03:13:42.180 --> 03:13:43.760
to say. So you don't have to spend a million

03:13:43.760 --> 03:13:45.479
dollars to get a really good simulator, right?

03:13:45.739 --> 03:13:50.620
If you go away from motion, just the pedals.

03:13:51.319 --> 03:13:54.739
The wheel and the belts can provide a ton of

03:13:54.739 --> 03:13:57.659
sensory feedback. But it feels like that would

03:13:57.659 --> 03:13:59.680
really make you a better racer. Hit that shit

03:13:59.680 --> 03:14:01.020
again. Let me see that from the beginning again.

03:14:02.620 --> 03:14:04.620
Just take it back to where it was or anywhere.

03:14:04.920 --> 03:14:07.579
When I'm watching this guy do this, it's like

03:14:07.579 --> 03:14:09.659
that seems like when you're looking at it through

03:14:09.659 --> 03:14:12.399
his POV, that seems like that would really make

03:14:12.399 --> 03:14:15.120
you a better racer. Like, look at that. That's

03:14:15.120 --> 03:14:19.479
wild. Like, it seems like you're racing. The

03:14:19.479 --> 03:14:22.639
sim is everything. And the sim is calculated

03:14:22.639 --> 03:14:25.739
to the grip of the tires and the amount of G

03:14:25.739 --> 03:14:27.260
-force you can generate? The software I'm using

03:14:27.260 --> 03:14:31.799
is so good that when I get in the car and pull

03:14:31.799 --> 03:14:34.159
out and do an outlap, it knows the tires are

03:14:34.159 --> 03:14:38.239
cold. If I push it, I crash. That's crazy. Oh,

03:14:38.239 --> 03:14:39.700
yeah, yeah, yeah. And not only that, it has built

03:14:39.700 --> 03:14:41.479
-in tire wear. So, for example, if I'm driving

03:14:41.479 --> 03:14:44.420
the McLaren MP430, which is a Formula One car

03:14:44.420 --> 03:14:46.899
in the simulator, it has the Pirelli softs on

03:14:46.899 --> 03:14:50.219
it. I know that... The first three laps, I can't

03:14:50.219 --> 03:14:51.940
go very fast. I have to get temperature in the

03:14:51.940 --> 03:14:55.200
tire. I hit my peak time, laps four through seven,

03:14:55.319 --> 03:14:58.819
and then the tire degrades. Wow. Yeah, it's just

03:14:58.819 --> 03:15:01.920
super precise. So then what do you do? You pull

03:15:01.920 --> 03:15:04.719
in and restart the game? Yeah. Restart the simulator,

03:15:04.860 --> 03:15:07.760
rather? Yeah, or I just drive cars with tires

03:15:07.760 --> 03:15:10.559
that have a longer life, so I can get 15 laps

03:15:10.559 --> 03:15:13.299
or 25. There's some tires I can get 35 laps out

03:15:13.299 --> 03:15:15.280
of. But they will have a commensurate. But they

03:15:15.280 --> 03:15:18.219
have lower performance. Yes. Wow. You won't have

03:15:18.219 --> 03:15:20.899
peak stickiness. That's crazy that it's just

03:15:20.899 --> 03:15:23.360
like the actual tire in the real world application.

03:15:23.500 --> 03:15:26.639
You adjust everything. We adjust the light. So

03:15:26.639 --> 03:15:29.280
for example, at Koda, if you ever run first thing

03:15:29.280 --> 03:15:32.239
in the morning, when you're going into turn six,

03:15:32.500 --> 03:15:35.239
you're freaking blind. So I want to simulate

03:15:35.239 --> 03:15:38.760
that. So I will tell it. Show me sunrise. Let

03:15:38.760 --> 03:15:41.600
me go do 10 laps at sunrise. And I have to now

03:15:41.600 --> 03:15:45.100
pick new reference markers to turn because I

03:15:45.100 --> 03:15:48.440
know I can't see turn six and I can't see turn.

03:15:48.719 --> 03:15:51.059
Actually, late in the day, you can't see turn

03:15:51.059 --> 03:15:53.079
10. You have to take turn 10 blind at sunset.

03:15:53.299 --> 03:15:55.219
No. Yeah, you have to take turn 10, which is,

03:15:55.260 --> 03:15:57.739
by the way, a flat out corner blind. Oh, my God.

03:15:57.780 --> 03:15:59.680
That's so crazy. Now, are you wearing glasses?

03:16:00.639 --> 03:16:04.680
No, I'm just in my monitors. But when you're

03:16:04.680 --> 03:16:07.239
driving, are you wearing any kind of sunglasses?

03:16:07.540 --> 03:16:09.879
I just have a visor, and I have multiple visors.

03:16:09.959 --> 03:16:12.840
Is the visor... It's UV -protectant, but I generally

03:16:12.840 --> 03:16:15.420
like wearing my clear visor, not my blacked -out

03:16:15.420 --> 03:16:17.579
visors. Because you just want to be able to see

03:16:17.579 --> 03:16:19.459
everything. I want maximum acuity, yeah. Wow.

03:16:22.000 --> 03:16:24.059
Yeah, this is the one that I normally used to

03:16:24.059 --> 03:16:26.360
see. Okay, this one's bullshit, though. That

03:16:26.360 --> 03:16:27.659
one... Comparison to the other one. Depends if

03:16:27.659 --> 03:16:29.719
it's moving. Depends if that's... Oh, see, this

03:16:29.719 --> 03:16:31.719
one I know that I'm in a race simulator. This

03:16:31.719 --> 03:16:35.200
one's fucking weak. But you're still getting

03:16:35.200 --> 03:16:38.040
a ton of value out of this because, remember,

03:16:38.120 --> 03:16:40.559
the big part of the simulator is learning the

03:16:40.559 --> 03:16:44.000
track, is learning the line, and learning the

03:16:44.000 --> 03:16:46.600
steering control and the throttle control. Well,

03:16:46.600 --> 03:16:50.420
this looks pretty dope right here. It's enough.

03:16:50.940 --> 03:16:53.399
It'll get you enough. So it's like you're looking

03:16:53.399 --> 03:16:57.780
through a weird windshield or something. Yeah,

03:16:57.840 --> 03:17:03.620
the problem with VR... That's 2009. ...is it

03:17:03.620 --> 03:17:08.620
just... Yeah, that was the Williams FW16. That

03:17:08.620 --> 03:17:13.200
was the FW16, yeah. So the refresh rate is not

03:17:13.200 --> 03:17:15.000
fast enough and the resolution is not high enough.

03:17:15.219 --> 03:17:18.940
So I think VR is probably awesome for a flight

03:17:18.940 --> 03:17:21.680
simulator because things aren't moving that fast

03:17:21.680 --> 03:17:23.399
in a flight simulator. Even though you're traveling

03:17:23.399 --> 03:17:25.479
fast, your relative distance is not. But in a

03:17:25.479 --> 03:17:28.659
car... You know what it's like to drive a car

03:17:28.659 --> 03:17:30.860
fast. Things are happening like that. What kind

03:17:30.860 --> 03:17:33.600
of refresh rate are those monitors? My monitor

03:17:33.600 --> 03:17:36.540
is refreshing at 320 frames per second. Wow.

03:17:37.139 --> 03:17:40.700
It's not in hertz? Well, hertz is. That's what

03:17:40.700 --> 03:17:43.260
it is? Hertz is frames per second? Hertz is 1

03:17:43.260 --> 03:17:46.040
over 60, but yeah. Oh, okay. They talk about

03:17:46.040 --> 03:17:48.579
it in frames per second. So it's smooth even

03:17:48.579 --> 03:17:53.020
though you're. I can run. With my computer, I

03:17:53.020 --> 03:17:55.659
can run at the maximum capacity of the simulator.

03:17:56.459 --> 03:18:02.659
Wow. That's wild. But what do I not have? I don't

03:18:02.659 --> 03:18:05.600
have movement. I don't have yaw. Right. And yaw

03:18:05.600 --> 03:18:08.520
is the single most important feeling for a driver

03:18:08.520 --> 03:18:11.840
to develop. The ability to recognize the g -force

03:18:11.840 --> 03:18:16.860
on your body. It's the ability to know the difference

03:18:16.860 --> 03:18:20.770
between front and rear grip. Oh, and the simulator

03:18:20.770 --> 03:18:22.909
doesn't have that? Mine does not. If I want that,

03:18:22.950 --> 03:18:26.229
I have to spend 10 times as much. Okay. So that's

03:18:26.229 --> 03:18:29.030
those million dollars. That's right. So for me,

03:18:29.049 --> 03:18:33.370
I know that I'm oversteering only by vision.

03:18:33.829 --> 03:18:38.110
So if I'm driving the carousel at COTA, right,

03:18:38.209 --> 03:18:41.350
and that's a corner where you, in a high downforce

03:18:41.350 --> 03:18:44.540
car. can go flat out. You can be pedal to the

03:18:44.540 --> 03:18:47.739
metal around 16, 17, 18 of coda, that curve at

03:18:47.739 --> 03:18:50.219
the end. But in most cars, you can't. And in

03:18:50.219 --> 03:18:52.020
the Formula 3 car that I showed you the video

03:18:52.020 --> 03:18:54.819
of, you can't be flat out in that corner. It

03:18:54.819 --> 03:18:57.579
doesn't have enough downforce. And you judge

03:18:57.579 --> 03:19:01.000
the grip of a car, the ability around a corner,

03:19:01.100 --> 03:19:03.899
it's based on feel, correct? Yes. And that's

03:19:03.899 --> 03:19:06.600
what's missing from the simulator. So what happens

03:19:06.600 --> 03:19:10.250
in the simulator is... I'm pushing. How hard

03:19:10.250 --> 03:19:13.389
can I go? And I know I've gone too far when I

03:19:13.389 --> 03:19:17.090
see, uh -oh, my back is spinning out from under

03:19:17.090 --> 03:19:20.729
me. The problem is that's happening a split second

03:19:20.729 --> 03:19:23.469
after I would have felt it. So in the simulator,

03:19:23.670 --> 03:19:26.510
it's actually harder to correct oversteer than

03:19:26.510 --> 03:19:30.370
in a real car. So it's only giving you like 70

03:19:30.370 --> 03:19:32.629
% knowledge or something like that. When it comes

03:19:32.629 --> 03:19:35.129
to oversteer. Understeer is different. Understeer

03:19:35.129 --> 03:19:37.829
is a visual thing. So the simulator is perfect

03:19:37.829 --> 03:19:41.049
for understeer, but it is limited in oversteer.

03:19:41.489 --> 03:19:45.430
Wow. There's too many things in this world. You

03:19:45.430 --> 03:19:48.090
could get really excited. You are like me that

03:19:48.090 --> 03:19:49.930
you don't want to try to play golf for the same

03:19:49.930 --> 03:19:52.149
reason. I'm never going to play golf. Well, I

03:19:52.149 --> 03:19:54.450
see how you've taken to bow hunting, and I see

03:19:54.450 --> 03:19:57.559
how you've taken to racing. Yeah, there's too

03:19:57.559 --> 03:20:00.600
many things in this world. We should probably

03:20:00.600 --> 03:20:03.559
wrap this up. We're more than three hours in.

03:20:05.319 --> 03:20:08.659
Yeah. Wild. Fucking time warp in this room, right?

03:20:09.799 --> 03:20:11.959
It's the lack of light. It's like a casino. No

03:20:11.959 --> 03:20:14.120
windows. It's a little bit of that, but it's

03:20:14.120 --> 03:20:17.159
just interesting conversation. How do you like

03:20:17.159 --> 03:20:19.420
this studio compared to your last one? Yeah,

03:20:19.479 --> 03:20:22.440
the last one, which is right next door. No, no,

03:20:22.440 --> 03:20:23.899
I mean the one in LA. I'm sorry. Oh, this is

03:20:23.899 --> 03:20:26.469
like the same. It's not much different in terms

03:20:26.469 --> 03:20:28.989
of the inside of it. I like this one better than

03:20:28.989 --> 03:20:32.670
the one that I had in L .A. But in terms of the

03:20:32.670 --> 03:20:36.389
studio space, like where I'm at, now that I'm

03:20:36.389 --> 03:20:39.629
putting a gym here, it's great. I loved having

03:20:39.629 --> 03:20:42.870
the gym there and having the sauna. Are you going

03:20:42.870 --> 03:20:46.229
to bring the archery simulator thing? Yep. Yeah,

03:20:46.250 --> 03:20:47.590
I'm going to bring that next time. I want to

03:20:47.590 --> 03:20:49.770
try that. Yeah, it's fun. You'll love it. You

03:20:49.770 --> 03:20:52.329
don't shoot your arrow, do you? Yeah. You shoot

03:20:52.329 --> 03:20:54.409
everything. You just take out your regular field

03:20:54.409 --> 03:20:56.350
tips for a flathead tip that looks like the head

03:20:56.350 --> 03:20:58.229
of a nail. Okay. And you're shooting it into

03:20:58.229 --> 03:21:01.790
a Kevlar screen. And it's all HD animals roaming

03:21:01.790 --> 03:21:04.510
around, and they scream, and they do everything,

03:21:04.549 --> 03:21:07.129
like the elk bugle, just like a real elk does.

03:21:07.270 --> 03:21:10.409
It's amazing. Yeah. All right. Yeah, you'll love

03:21:10.409 --> 03:21:12.590
it. I'll get that in soon. Next time you're here,

03:21:12.690 --> 03:21:14.809
we'll do that. Awesome, man. Thank you, brother.

03:21:14.909 --> 03:21:16.750
I appreciate you. Thank you, Jamie. Tell everybody

03:21:16.750 --> 03:21:19.850
your Instagram and all that jazz. PeterAtiaMD.

03:21:20.319 --> 03:21:24.280
A -T -T -I -A -M -D. That's Instagram and Twitter

03:21:24.280 --> 03:21:26.700
as well. Yeah. And the podcast is The Drive.

03:21:26.879 --> 03:21:29.340
The Drive. And that's on everything. Every single

03:21:29.340 --> 03:21:31.799
Monday, all on health and longevity. All right.

03:21:32.739 --> 03:21:33.500
Bye, everybody.