WEBVTT 00:00:01.639 --> 00:00:04.740 Welcome to this curated educational transcript of the Joe Rogan Experience. In this session, we provide a deep-dive examination of the critical perspectives and historical dialogues presented in Episode #1904. Our mission is to offer a high-fidelity, searchable research resource for students of cultural history, emerging technology, and global discourse. This transcript has been specifically optimized for academic reference, linguistic study, and archival preservation regarding Astrophysics, James Webb Telescope Discoveries, and Scientific Literacy. Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan 00:00:04.740 --> 00:00:08.140 Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by 00:00:08.140 --> 00:00:13.720 night, all day. I don't want every one of my 00:00:13.720 --> 00:00:16.019 sentences to sound like Barry White. Is that 00:00:16.019 --> 00:00:17.239 what it sounds like in your ears? In headphones, 00:00:17.239 --> 00:00:22.230 they do. Oh, hey, baby. I just can't. Whereas 00:00:22.230 --> 00:00:24.489 without the headphones, I'm just regular. All 00:00:24.489 --> 00:00:26.649 right. Ready? All ready. Good to see you. Hey. 00:00:26.730 --> 00:00:29.570 What's happening? I'm excited to talk to you. 00:00:29.589 --> 00:00:31.050 I'm excited to talk to you about a bunch of things, 00:00:31.070 --> 00:00:33.710 but I've been paying attention to all the web 00:00:33.710 --> 00:00:37.140 telescope stuff. Oh, my gosh. Fascinating. It's 00:00:37.140 --> 00:00:39.920 all that. Could you please explain the difference 00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:43.079 in the ability of the capabilities of this telescope 00:00:43.079 --> 00:00:45.880 versus what we've had previously? Yeah. So first 00:00:45.880 --> 00:00:48.740 of all, it's all that. And the excitement was 00:00:48.740 --> 00:00:51.799 in part because so much could have gone wrong 00:00:51.799 --> 00:00:55.140 with this thing. And the fact that nothing went 00:00:55.140 --> 00:00:59.729 wrong. We were ecstatic. Could you explain how 00:00:59.729 --> 00:01:02.549 complicated it is to get something like that? 00:01:02.630 --> 00:01:05.609 So one of the great challenges that we face is 00:01:05.609 --> 00:01:08.829 how do you put a telescope in orbit that's bigger 00:01:08.829 --> 00:01:11.689 than the rocket that's going to launch it? Is 00:01:11.689 --> 00:01:14.810 that even possible? And the Hubble telescope, 00:01:15.090 --> 00:01:18.310 do you know what set the size of that 94 -inch 00:01:18.310 --> 00:01:21.489 diameter mirror? That's the biggest mirror you 00:01:21.489 --> 00:01:24.730 could fit in the payload of the space shuttle. 00:01:25.949 --> 00:01:28.769 That's what set the size of that telescope. Big 00:01:28.769 --> 00:01:31.870 as it was, we would have made it bigger if the 00:01:31.870 --> 00:01:33.890 space shuttle were bigger. Now, I don't know 00:01:33.890 --> 00:01:35.430 if you've seen the Hubble telescope. There's 00:01:35.430 --> 00:01:37.170 a replica of it at the Air and Space Museum. 00:01:37.469 --> 00:01:40.769 Let's take a photo of it. It's there hanging 00:01:40.769 --> 00:01:42.269 from the ceiling, but if you want to know how 00:01:42.269 --> 00:01:45.430 – it's about the size of a Greyhound bus. So 00:01:45.430 --> 00:01:48.189 the space shuttle deployed a Greyhound bus into 00:01:48.189 --> 00:01:51.730 orbit, which is the Hubble Space Telescope. And 00:01:51.730 --> 00:01:54.989 the value of the Hubble was that you could – 00:01:55.209 --> 00:01:58.709 update it with servicing missions. And it was 00:01:58.709 --> 00:02:01.969 serviced many times. And as a result, it lived 00:02:01.969 --> 00:02:05.650 within our culture for three decades. There are 00:02:05.650 --> 00:02:08.909 people who came of age only ever knowing the 00:02:08.909 --> 00:02:11.750 majesty of the universe as delivered to you by 00:02:11.750 --> 00:02:14.629 the Hubble telescope. 30 years worth of this. 00:02:14.689 --> 00:02:17.349 Think about it. Most other telescopes, they put 00:02:17.349 --> 00:02:19.430 into orbit and they have a five -year mission 00:02:19.430 --> 00:02:21.610 and then they come down. So they don't have a 00:02:21.610 --> 00:02:25.319 chance to get inside you. to become something 00:02:25.319 --> 00:02:29.939 that you... Oh, you got a nice visual there. 00:02:30.020 --> 00:02:32.520 The Hubble telescope on the left, which every 00:02:32.520 --> 00:02:38.659 year, every year, I post a tweet at the end of 00:02:38.659 --> 00:02:41.479 the Stanley Cup, and I say, the Stanley Cup and 00:02:41.479 --> 00:02:44.139 the Hubble telescope had the same designer. Really? 00:02:44.300 --> 00:02:46.819 No, I'm just kidding. No, just look at the thing. 00:02:46.919 --> 00:02:48.900 It looks like the Stanley Cup. A little bit. 00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:51.479 A lot. I wouldn't confuse the two if they were 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:56.189 in a room together. So here's the thing. So notice 00:02:56.189 --> 00:02:59.409 the Hubble telescope, its diameter is the spherical 00:02:59.409 --> 00:03:02.590 shape that fits in the spherical payload of the 00:03:02.590 --> 00:03:04.930 space shuttle. So now we want to put a bigger 00:03:04.930 --> 00:03:09.370 telescope into orbit. How do you do that? And 00:03:09.370 --> 00:03:12.129 so this is where you need engineers, clever engineers. 00:03:12.389 --> 00:03:15.729 We say, here's a rocket, one of the most powerful 00:03:15.729 --> 00:03:19.780 rockets we can... But the fairing, that's the 00:03:19.780 --> 00:03:22.099 place where you hold the payload, can only be 00:03:22.099 --> 00:03:25.099 so big. And they say, all right, why don't we 00:03:25.099 --> 00:03:27.819 fold the telescope? Now, how are you going to 00:03:27.819 --> 00:03:30.479 fold the mirror? Oh, you turn the mirror into 00:03:30.479 --> 00:03:34.419 segments, hexagons. Hexagons, one of only three 00:03:34.419 --> 00:03:38.240 shapes that can tile a surface, a square, a triangle, 00:03:38.379 --> 00:03:41.620 and a hexagon. No other shape can do this. So, 00:03:41.620 --> 00:03:44.840 well, you can have other. Irregular shapes that 00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:47.219 can match up. You can tessellate what it's called. 00:03:47.340 --> 00:03:49.699 But if you have what's called a regular polygon, 00:03:49.860 --> 00:03:52.620 so here in the image there, what you can see 00:03:52.620 --> 00:03:58.099 is all of the mirror segments. Those fold into 00:03:58.099 --> 00:04:05.240 a narrow structure along with the unfurling solar 00:04:05.240 --> 00:04:10.090 panels as well as the heat. NOSA is made at Northrop 00:04:10.090 --> 00:04:12.729 Grumman. By the way, Grumman has a long history 00:04:12.729 --> 00:04:16.970 in helping NASA put stuff in space. The LEM, 00:04:17.050 --> 00:04:19.329 Lunar Excursion Module, remember that? The thing 00:04:19.329 --> 00:04:23.269 that landed on the moon? That was designed and 00:04:23.269 --> 00:04:26.829 built in Bethpage, Long Island at Grumman Aerospace. 00:04:27.449 --> 00:04:30.750 And so this is, and you go to Bethpage today, 00:04:30.829 --> 00:04:33.610 people still stand tall because they had aunts 00:04:33.610 --> 00:04:35.790 and uncles who worked on that project. Space. 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:40.339 is a force of nature unto itself in our sense 00:04:40.339 --> 00:04:43.980 of pride, in our sense of achievement, in our 00:04:43.980 --> 00:04:48.480 sense of what operates on civilization to take 00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:52.579 us into the future lest we continue to regress 00:04:52.579 --> 00:04:56.120 and move back into the cave which we came. There 00:04:56.120 --> 00:04:59.100 it is all folded up in the image we now see for 00:04:59.100 --> 00:05:02.439 those who are watching this. And you slip that 00:05:02.439 --> 00:05:06.120 into a fairing and then you launch it. A million 00:05:06.120 --> 00:05:11.560 miles from Earth. Opposite the sun from Earth. 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:15.980 And it unfurls like petals of a flower. Is there 00:05:15.980 --> 00:05:17.639 an animation of how that goes down? Oh, yeah. 00:05:17.959 --> 00:05:20.759 Yeah, slow -mo animation. Sure, he can find it. 00:05:20.899 --> 00:05:24.240 And it's the deployment, how it deployed as it 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:26.759 was on its way to its location, which is one 00:05:26.759 --> 00:05:30.420 of the Lagrangian points in orbit. For every 00:05:30.420 --> 00:05:33.189 two objects that orbit each other. There are 00:05:33.189 --> 00:05:35.389 five Lagrangian points. So here we are unfolding. 00:05:35.649 --> 00:05:37.910 So there we have solar panels coming out the 00:05:37.910 --> 00:05:44.629 side. And there's the communication antenna. 00:05:44.930 --> 00:05:49.949 And it has a unique set of baffles that shield 00:05:49.949 --> 00:05:56.089 it from sunlight so that the mirror and the detector 00:05:56.089 --> 00:06:00.379 can be very, very cold. Because it's designed, 00:06:00.540 --> 00:06:04.819 it's specially tuned to observe infrared that 00:06:04.819 --> 00:06:09.259 comes to us from space. And infrared, as you 00:06:09.259 --> 00:06:11.720 may know, we normally associate it with heat. 00:06:11.879 --> 00:06:14.220 Well, how am I going to detect something that's 00:06:14.220 --> 00:06:17.560 very, very cold in space if my detector is hotter 00:06:17.560 --> 00:06:21.740 than what I'm trying to detect? There's no way 00:06:21.740 --> 00:06:27.660 to see something that is warmer than... the temperature 00:06:27.660 --> 00:06:29.279 of your detector. So your detector has to be 00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:32.180 very cold, extremely cold. So these are the baffles, 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:35.000 and there are many, many layers. So that when 00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:38.500 sunlight hits one layer... That layer absorbs 00:06:38.500 --> 00:06:41.100 it and re -radiates it in both directions, forward 00:06:41.100 --> 00:06:43.800 and back. So there's less that goes to the next 00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:46.120 layer. So then the next layer re -radiates it, 00:06:46.180 --> 00:06:47.779 and by the time it gets to the fourth layer, 00:06:47.899 --> 00:06:50.939 hardly anything goes towards the telescope. And 00:06:50.939 --> 00:06:53.560 so it is insulated, and it drops to deep space 00:06:53.560 --> 00:06:58.839 cold temperatures. And it's literally where the 00:06:58.839 --> 00:07:02.509 sun don't shine right now. So the solar pounders 00:07:02.509 --> 00:07:05.009 are getting the solar energy from the bottom. 00:07:05.230 --> 00:07:07.310 Yeah, because that's the direction the sun is, 00:07:07.350 --> 00:07:09.029 correct. So it radiates off the bottom, and those 00:07:09.029 --> 00:07:11.110 are the things that protect it. And we see how 00:07:11.110 --> 00:07:13.550 all those layers. All the layers, yeah. Amazing. 00:07:13.769 --> 00:07:18.310 Yeah, and it's specifically tuned for the infrared 00:07:18.310 --> 00:07:20.389 part of the spectrum. You remember the spectrum. 00:07:20.490 --> 00:07:23.709 So you have, like, visible light, right? Roy 00:07:23.709 --> 00:07:26.009 G. Biv, right, if you want to remember it. Red, 00:07:26.050 --> 00:07:28.870 orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet. 00:07:29.009 --> 00:07:31.110 Those are the... parts of the spectrum we can 00:07:31.110 --> 00:07:34.709 see. But there's light outside of this. There's 00:07:34.709 --> 00:07:37.449 like, beyond the violet, there's ultraviolet. 00:07:37.730 --> 00:07:40.089 That's how you get that. And below the red is 00:07:40.089 --> 00:07:44.269 infrared. Not visible to the human eye. By the 00:07:44.269 --> 00:07:46.670 way, insects can see ultraviolet. We can't. That's 00:07:46.670 --> 00:07:49.029 why bug zappers work. You put a UV light in a 00:07:49.029 --> 00:07:53.420 bug zapper, the bugs say, oh my gosh! I love 00:07:53.420 --> 00:07:56.040 ultraviolet. And then they get zapped. And we're 00:07:56.040 --> 00:07:57.560 old enough to remember before there were bug 00:07:57.560 --> 00:08:02.660 zappers, you'd had a picnic bulb for twilight 00:08:02.660 --> 00:08:05.339 picnics. And it's like a yellow bulb, kind of 00:08:05.339 --> 00:08:08.259 yellow, amber bulb. It was a bug bulb. It was 00:08:08.259 --> 00:08:10.699 sold as bug bulbs. It's not that they repelled 00:08:10.699 --> 00:08:13.879 bugs. It's that the bugs couldn't even see it 00:08:13.879 --> 00:08:17.180 because their whole vision is shifted towards 00:08:17.180 --> 00:08:20.300 the ultraviolet. And it leaves out the deep red. 00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:23.779 Yeah. So that's evidence we're smarter than bugs. 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:30.459 Luckily. One piece of evidence that we're smarter 00:08:30.459 --> 00:08:33.059 than bugs. So just to bring that to a closure, 00:08:33.259 --> 00:08:36.440 the earliest forming galaxies in the universe 00:08:36.440 --> 00:08:40.580 radiated a lot of ultraviolet. So you might say, 00:08:40.620 --> 00:08:42.200 well, let's get an ultraviolet telescope. No. 00:08:42.659 --> 00:08:46.399 Because 14 billion years later. The expansion 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:49.139 of the universe has redshifted the ultraviolet 00:08:49.139 --> 00:08:54.159 into the infrared. So if you want to see the 00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:57.159 birth of galaxies, you've got to know what they 00:08:57.159 --> 00:08:59.779 look like in the here and the now. And in the 00:08:59.779 --> 00:09:02.740 here and the now, it's in the infrared. So this 00:09:02.740 --> 00:09:05.759 is a telescope specifically tuned to see galaxies 00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:09.259 born at the edge of the universe. And infrared 00:09:09.259 --> 00:09:12.460 also allows you to see deep into gas clouds. 00:09:12.639 --> 00:09:14.980 Now, when they're showing you an image like this. 00:09:14.980 --> 00:09:16.360 So right here, this is the Pillars of Creation, 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:19.620 which were so named at the time Hubble. first 00:09:19.620 --> 00:09:21.919 attempted this. We were gaga over the Hubble 00:09:21.919 --> 00:09:26.980 image of this. And now like the JWST, oh my gosh. 00:09:27.159 --> 00:09:30.059 For those who are more prone to religion, some 00:09:30.059 --> 00:09:32.120 have called this the hand of God. Because if 00:09:32.120 --> 00:09:35.720 you look at the pillars, you can kind of picture 00:09:35.720 --> 00:09:39.779 like a, you know, a thumb and fingers. Yeah. 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:45.600 So, but regardless, this is nearby. This is the 00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:49.340 telescope. peering deep into gas clouds that 00:09:49.340 --> 00:09:52.779 otherwise would enshroud what's going on. And 00:09:52.779 --> 00:09:55.559 you get to see stars being born, planets being 00:09:55.559 --> 00:10:00.120 born. And so what's remarkable about JWST is 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:02.539 that to be tuned for the edge of the universe 00:10:02.539 --> 00:10:07.139 and the birth of galaxies is the same properties 00:10:07.139 --> 00:10:14.000 you would want to see the birth of stars. A star 00:10:14.000 --> 00:10:16.610 is born right in front of your nose. that would 00:10:16.610 --> 00:10:21.769 otherwise be cloaked by gas. And infrared penetrates 00:10:21.769 --> 00:10:23.970 those clouds and enables you to see it as though 00:10:23.970 --> 00:10:26.210 the cloud isn't even there. And you already know 00:10:26.210 --> 00:10:30.570 this because if you're driving through fog, okay, 00:10:30.710 --> 00:10:33.370 you put on your fog lights. The fog lights are 00:10:33.370 --> 00:10:36.710 not blue. They're like reddish, amber, okay? 00:10:36.990 --> 00:10:39.490 That improves your ability to see through the 00:10:39.490 --> 00:10:43.570 fog. If we could see infrared, That's the kind 00:10:43.570 --> 00:10:44.990 of light you'd use then you wouldn't even know 00:10:44.990 --> 00:10:47.889 the fog was there That's why self -driving cars 00:10:47.889 --> 00:10:50.429 will be amazing. It won't matter if it's foggy 00:10:50.429 --> 00:10:52.389 You'll be able to see everything just give them 00:10:52.389 --> 00:10:54.909 infrared sensors. The fog is irrelevant They 00:10:54.909 --> 00:10:57.450 can drive 100 miles an hour in dense fog and 00:10:57.450 --> 00:10:59.610 all the cars will see each other and they want 00:10:59.610 --> 00:11:01.210 to change lanes They tell other cars I'm gonna 00:11:01.210 --> 00:11:03.970 change lanes the part for them open up and we 00:11:03.970 --> 00:11:07.710 won't get 40 ,000 deaths a year as we currently 00:11:07.710 --> 00:11:12.070 do from automobile accidents Now how much bigger 00:11:12.070 --> 00:11:16.330 is this telescope so um it's about so you want 00:11:16.330 --> 00:11:17.990 to think about collecting area, and I forgot 00:11:17.990 --> 00:11:21.909 the exact number Something like eight times around 00:11:21.909 --> 00:11:25.269 there more powerful in the sense of it can see 00:11:25.269 --> 00:11:29.639 things eight times dimmer There you go. So that's 00:11:29.639 --> 00:11:31.980 two. There's about two and a half squared. It's 00:11:31.980 --> 00:11:34.799 about eight times the area. And the technology 00:11:34.799 --> 00:11:38.740 obviously is improved as well. So like the ability 00:11:38.740 --> 00:11:42.159 that. Well, our detectors are better. And let 00:11:42.159 --> 00:11:44.220 me remind you that when the Hubble was designed, 00:11:44.440 --> 00:11:47.000 it was designed in like the 1980s. And it was 00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:49.919 scheduled to go up. And then we had the Challenger 00:11:49.919 --> 00:11:52.480 accident. And that delayed the shuttle program. 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:54.200 So there's Hubble sitting there in mothballs 00:11:54.200 --> 00:11:58.860 with an old Microsoft chip. And by the time it 00:11:58.860 --> 00:12:01.399 launched, it was already not as fast as it could 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:04.320 have been. And so the very first servicing mission 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:09.100 swapped all that out and put in better methods 00:12:09.100 --> 00:12:11.580 and tools for measuring what it is we always 00:12:11.580 --> 00:12:17.200 needed it to do. So one sad part about this is 00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:20.580 that it's not serviceable. We have no access 00:12:20.580 --> 00:12:23.379 to that point in space a million miles from the 00:12:23.379 --> 00:12:26.379 moon. We haven't left low Earth orbit since 1972. 00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:28.580 We're not going out a million miles from Earth 00:12:28.580 --> 00:12:31.340 to fix a telescope. So that's unfortunate. Maybe 00:12:31.340 --> 00:12:35.399 a robotic fix. I don't know. To refill some of 00:12:35.399 --> 00:12:39.179 the fuel. It needs fuel to station keep. Didn't 00:12:39.179 --> 00:12:41.700 it get hit by a micrometeor? Yeah. Well, that's 00:12:41.700 --> 00:12:47.000 the brakes when you're in space. Yeah. But it's 00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:49.210 not. it doesn't affect the overall performance. 00:12:49.470 --> 00:12:51.330 That's amazing. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's huge, 00:12:51.450 --> 00:12:54.190 and micrometeors will do small damage, but you 00:12:54.190 --> 00:12:55.909 don't want it in the middle of a meteor storm. 00:12:56.049 --> 00:12:59.970 That would be totally bad. And do they, I mean, 00:13:00.009 --> 00:13:02.750 they obviously know, like, where some of the 00:13:02.750 --> 00:13:06.210 asteroid belts are and where some of the, like, 00:13:06.269 --> 00:13:10.230 nearby Earth objects are. Yeah, so in this context, 00:13:10.549 --> 00:13:12.509 so first, most asteroids are in the asteroid 00:13:12.509 --> 00:13:16.830 belt. So that's between Mars and Jupiter. So 00:13:16.830 --> 00:13:19.830 I have an asteroid named after me. Congratulations. 00:13:19.870 --> 00:13:22.789 I don't mean to brag or anything. Can't you get 00:13:22.789 --> 00:13:26.250 a star named after you online? Not authentically. 00:13:26.509 --> 00:13:29.029 You just get robbed. They just pretend it's yours. 00:13:29.029 --> 00:13:31.789 They'll send you a map with your name drawn in 00:13:31.789 --> 00:13:33.309 the map. See, pay for a piece of paper. Yeah, 00:13:33.309 --> 00:13:37.190 they claim that it gets registered with the astrophysicist, 00:13:37.190 --> 00:13:40.389 but it doesn't. There's only one way we name 00:13:40.389 --> 00:13:42.990 stars, and that's by committee and by traditions 00:13:42.990 --> 00:13:45.289 and this sort of thing. They're fascinating traditions. 00:13:45.629 --> 00:13:49.100 So planets are named after Roman gods. And planet 00:13:49.100 --> 00:13:55.419 moons are named after Greek characters in the 00:13:55.419 --> 00:13:59.460 life of the Greek god who's the counterpart to 00:13:59.460 --> 00:14:03.559 that Roman god. So Jupiter, for example, one 00:14:03.559 --> 00:14:07.340 of its moons is Ganymede. Ganymede was the manservant 00:14:07.340 --> 00:14:10.299 of Zeus. And Zeus and Jupiter were corresponding 00:14:10.299 --> 00:14:16.000 gods in Greek and Roman. And not only that, what's 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:18.740 the number? About half, somewhere around there, 00:14:18.820 --> 00:14:20.919 of all the stars in the night sky that have names, 00:14:21.019 --> 00:14:25.259 have Arabic names. So in my field, we have deep 00:14:25.259 --> 00:14:28.460 respect for people who made great inroads into 00:14:28.460 --> 00:14:31.899 understanding the natural universe. And the golden 00:14:31.899 --> 00:14:34.659 age of Islam from a thousand years ago made material 00:14:34.659 --> 00:14:37.440 contributions in this regard. And, of course, 00:14:37.460 --> 00:14:39.159 Greek and Roman legends and this sort of thing. 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:41.539 So there they are in its influence on Western 00:14:41.539 --> 00:14:44.799 culture. So, yeah, no, the universe is a fun 00:14:44.799 --> 00:14:48.019 place. Pretty fun place. Oh, yeah. So this James 00:14:48.019 --> 00:14:51.700 Webb telescope, in terms of its ability to recognize 00:14:51.700 --> 00:14:54.759 things, like what magnitude of improvement are 00:14:54.759 --> 00:14:56.519 we talking about from the Hubble? Yeah, factor 00:14:56.519 --> 00:14:59.519 of 10. Yeah, factor of 10. Yeah, easily. That's 00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:01.659 right. Well, a factor of 10 for the things Hubble 00:15:01.659 --> 00:15:05.870 could see, but it's incalculable. when it sees 00:15:05.870 --> 00:15:08.370 things that Hubble could have never seen because 00:15:08.370 --> 00:15:11.149 Hubble was not tuned for the infrared. So then 00:15:11.149 --> 00:15:13.029 you can't even compare it. It's a complete other 00:15:13.029 --> 00:15:16.610 window opened up to the universe for you. So 00:15:16.610 --> 00:15:20.710 what has changed in terms of our understanding? 00:15:21.009 --> 00:15:26.710 The web has been in the million -mile orbit or 00:15:26.710 --> 00:15:29.889 however far away it is for how long now? Well, 00:15:29.970 --> 00:15:31.570 it got there and then we did some engineering. 00:15:31.750 --> 00:15:34.710 So I guess a year, year and a half. And what 00:15:34.710 --> 00:15:38.450 has changed in our understanding? So that's been 00:15:38.450 --> 00:15:41.029 people's first question. And what I want to do 00:15:41.029 --> 00:15:44.990 is temper that to say something a little different. 00:15:45.450 --> 00:15:50.409 So, yes, we expect James Webb to make great discoveries. 00:15:50.610 --> 00:15:54.129 We expect that. But the first order of business 00:15:54.129 --> 00:15:57.830 is hardly ever let's discover something new today. 00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:01.019 It's here's something that we have limited understanding 00:16:01.019 --> 00:16:05.340 of. Let's improve on that. And in so doing, we 00:16:05.340 --> 00:16:07.440 deepen our understanding of how things work in 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:10.480 the universe. That doesn't always involve overturning 00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:12.919 a previous idea or discovering something that 00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:15.679 nobody ordered. All right. That will happen. 00:16:15.740 --> 00:16:18.659 We fully expect that to happen. But we targeted 00:16:18.659 --> 00:16:22.879 parts of the sky. because we know other telescopes 00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:25.240 have gone there before. And we're going to say, 00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:27.620 how can we further advance and deepen our understanding? 00:16:27.879 --> 00:16:29.519 One thing it's going to be able to do, and it 00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:32.399 has already done, we have, you know how many 00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:34.679 exoplanets there are? I don't know how many of 00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:41.360 your audience was born after 1995. How many 27 00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:42.940 -year -olds and younger? Probably quite a few. 00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:45.500 Quite a few, okay. So I will take this opportunity 00:16:45.500 --> 00:16:55.789 to knight them Generation X. 1995 was the first 00:16:55.789 --> 00:16:57.870 exoplanet discovered, a planet orbiting another 00:16:57.870 --> 00:17:01.909 star. And I'll never forget that because it was 00:17:01.909 --> 00:17:04.950 my first time on national television. I was freshly 00:17:04.950 --> 00:17:07.529 minted as director of the Hayden Planetarium 00:17:07.529 --> 00:17:11.369 in New York City. And NBC sent the – New York 00:17:11.369 --> 00:17:14.190 City, there's the media. news headquarters, right, 00:17:14.230 --> 00:17:17.329 of all the networks. So NBC sent an action cam. 00:17:17.509 --> 00:17:19.769 They interviewed me because of my title, not 00:17:19.769 --> 00:17:23.710 because they knew or gave a crap who I was. My 00:17:23.710 --> 00:17:26.710 title was director of the planetarium. And so 00:17:26.710 --> 00:17:30.329 I gave my best professorial reply. I said, well, 00:17:30.349 --> 00:17:32.049 it's the Doppler shift. This is how it's discovered 00:17:32.049 --> 00:17:36.450 and what we do and how we measure it. And I was 00:17:36.450 --> 00:17:38.829 describing the fact that when you discover these 00:17:38.829 --> 00:17:41.220 planets, you don't actually see the planet. You 00:17:41.220 --> 00:17:43.099 see the effect of the planet's gravity on the 00:17:43.099 --> 00:17:46.740 host star. And so if you'd watch the host star, 00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:50.160 the host star like jiggles, okay, just a little 00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:53.119 bit in response to the planet going back and 00:17:53.119 --> 00:17:55.720 forth around it. So you're measuring the star. 00:17:55.819 --> 00:17:59.180 So I motioned that like with my hips. And that 00:17:59.180 --> 00:18:02.359 evening on the evening news. That's all they 00:18:02.359 --> 00:18:07.440 showed was me jiggling my hips Okay, that's how 00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:10.700 you're gonna do this Okay, you don't want me 00:18:10.700 --> 00:18:12.599 to be professor Neil you want me to be sound 00:18:12.599 --> 00:18:16.059 bite Neil all right so from then on I practice 00:18:16.059 --> 00:18:18.859 my sound bites And a soundbite is like three 00:18:18.859 --> 00:18:21.579 sentences. Oh, so you recognize that this is 00:18:21.579 --> 00:18:25.720 the format now. Correct. And I said, I can't 00:18:25.720 --> 00:18:27.420 just give them my stump speech as a professor 00:18:27.420 --> 00:18:30.200 of astrophysics. It has to work in their medium. 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:33.380 And so I went home and stood in front of the 00:18:33.380 --> 00:18:36.700 mirror and had people just shout out things to 00:18:36.700 --> 00:18:39.259 me. Anything in the universe, any idea, object. 00:18:39.710 --> 00:18:42.190 Person place or thing and I would come up with 00:18:42.190 --> 00:18:45.250 like three sentences that are interesting Make 00:18:45.250 --> 00:18:48.509 a smile and be tasty enough to want to tell someone 00:18:48.509 --> 00:18:51.470 else the anatomy of a sound bite Try it say anything 00:18:51.470 --> 00:18:54.210 in the whole universe. How do we know how just 00:18:54.210 --> 00:18:57.509 one word? Just okay anything the Big Bang Big 00:18:57.509 --> 00:19:03.009 Bang ooh the birth of space -time energy and 00:19:03.009 --> 00:19:05.890 Everything we know and love about this universe 00:19:05.890 --> 00:19:11.559 occurred 14 billion years ago, and we have no 00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:15.200 idea what happened before it. And we're still 00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:19.900 expanding, as we will, forever. I read an article... 00:19:19.900 --> 00:19:21.500 That's my soundbite for the Big Bang. That's 00:19:21.500 --> 00:19:24.099 a good soundbite. I read an article about the 00:19:24.099 --> 00:19:27.920 Webb Telescope, and what they were taking into 00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:30.359 consideration is the possibility that the Big 00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:33.420 Bang may be incorrect, and that the universe 00:19:33.420 --> 00:19:37.339 might be larger and older than we think. So... 00:19:38.700 --> 00:19:42.119 I hesitate to ask what pages on the internet 00:19:42.119 --> 00:19:47.279 you hang out on. It wasn't saying the universe 00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:50.680 is older. It's saying as more data and new information 00:19:50.680 --> 00:19:53.920 comes in, there is a distinct possibility that 00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:57.759 the Big Bang might just be the – it just might 00:19:57.759 --> 00:20:00.819 explain the reach of the technology and not the 00:20:00.819 --> 00:20:02.819 actual scale of the universe itself. Okay. So 00:20:02.819 --> 00:20:05.630 the way to think about this is – And this is 00:20:05.630 --> 00:20:09.369 the way science has worked since basically the 00:20:09.369 --> 00:20:13.869 year 1600, where Galileo sort of starts codifying 00:20:13.869 --> 00:20:16.730 what people knew probably should be happening, 00:20:16.769 --> 00:20:19.210 but no one really did it in large scale. If you 00:20:19.210 --> 00:20:21.130 have an idea about something, then you test it 00:20:21.130 --> 00:20:23.670 multiple ways and get other people to test it. 00:20:23.750 --> 00:20:26.349 And if the tests give you consistent results, 00:20:26.630 --> 00:20:29.130 you have a new understanding of the universe. 00:20:29.630 --> 00:20:34.059 When that happens, that... knowledge of the universe 00:20:34.059 --> 00:20:39.200 doesn't go away. It doesn't get undone. What 00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:43.099 happens typically is you have a deeper understanding 00:20:43.099 --> 00:20:45.339 of the universe in which that understanding gets 00:20:45.339 --> 00:20:48.880 embedded. And you realize that you only understood 00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:52.140 a small part of a larger whole. But the small 00:20:52.140 --> 00:20:54.859 parts you did understand, where you had multiple 00:20:54.859 --> 00:20:58.640 experiments that confirmed it, that doesn't change. 00:20:59.260 --> 00:21:02.039 So the cleanest example of this, and I'll get 00:21:02.039 --> 00:21:04.859 back to your question, is Newton's laws of motion 00:21:04.859 --> 00:21:10.559 and gravity. Did anyone see anything move faster 00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:12.759 than a galloping horse in his day? Probably not. 00:21:13.059 --> 00:21:16.420 And so the Newton's laws of motion and gravity 00:21:16.420 --> 00:21:19.299 worked. They worked not only for galloping horses. 00:21:19.299 --> 00:21:22.640 It worked for the moon in orbit around the Earth 00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:26.319 and the Earth in orbit around the sun and Jupiter's 00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:28.970 moons in orbit around Jupiter. All right, and 00:21:28.970 --> 00:21:34.230 for the planets. So, okay, but wait a minute. 00:21:34.369 --> 00:21:37.410 It doesn't work for Mercury. Mercury's orbit 00:21:37.410 --> 00:21:39.789 is not following Newton's laws. Is something 00:21:39.789 --> 00:21:42.630 wrong with the data? Let's check it. Data's correct. 00:21:43.349 --> 00:21:45.869 Oh my gosh, what's happening? Einstein comes 00:21:45.869 --> 00:21:48.569 along and says, I have a new understanding of 00:21:48.569 --> 00:21:52.160 gravity and a new understanding of motion. And 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:54.660 it accounts for this weirdness in Mercury's orbit. 00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:58.099 What was the weirdness? Its shape was not exactly 00:21:58.099 --> 00:22:00.700 what Newton's laws of gravity would give you. 00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:03.779 Its shape could only be accounted for when you 00:22:03.779 --> 00:22:06.480 throw in Einstein's theory of general relativity. 00:22:07.099 --> 00:22:11.579 Why? Because... The sun's gravity is so monstrous 00:22:11.579 --> 00:22:14.619 and Mercury's orbiting close enough to it that 00:22:14.619 --> 00:22:17.799 it's being influenced by extra phenomenon going 00:22:17.799 --> 00:22:20.339 on in the universe that's the product of very 00:22:20.339 --> 00:22:25.079 high and significant gravity. And so then do 00:22:25.079 --> 00:22:27.940 we throw Newton out the window? No, actually. 00:22:28.279 --> 00:22:30.980 You know what Newton's laws are? They're what 00:22:30.980 --> 00:22:35.539 Einstein's laws look like when you put in low 00:22:35.539 --> 00:22:38.769 speeds and low gravity. If you put it in low 00:22:38.769 --> 00:22:42.450 speed, they become Newton's laws in that limit. 00:22:43.589 --> 00:22:46.529 Newton's laws don't stop working where they used 00:22:46.529 --> 00:22:50.890 to work. Apollo to the moon used only Newton's 00:22:50.890 --> 00:22:54.329 laws because Einstein didn't matter at those 00:22:54.329 --> 00:22:58.269 scales. The moon and earth and rockets, we're 00:22:58.269 --> 00:22:59.990 not going fast enough for any of that to matter. 00:23:00.450 --> 00:23:02.670 But when you start going fast enough, you cannot 00:23:02.670 --> 00:23:05.910 use Newton's laws. You have to use a deeper understanding. 00:23:07.609 --> 00:23:10.690 Einstein take us. You go into the center of a 00:23:10.690 --> 00:23:13.029 black hole, you get black holes from Einstein. 00:23:13.730 --> 00:23:15.529 Center of a black hole, there's a singularity. 00:23:16.569 --> 00:23:20.410 All the theories say the matter occupies zero 00:23:20.410 --> 00:23:24.109 volume, thereby having infinite density. And 00:23:24.109 --> 00:23:26.609 that's kind of weird. What? No, you can't have 00:23:26.609 --> 00:23:31.269 infinite. No. That's a limit of Einstein's theory. 00:23:31.799 --> 00:23:33.640 That's where it breaks down. Some have joked 00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:35.579 that's where God divides by zero. Remember in 00:23:35.579 --> 00:23:38.220 math class, you can't divide by zero. It's not 00:23:38.220 --> 00:23:41.539 defined or not allowed. So in Einstein's equations, 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:44.140 we're dividing by zero at the singularity. So 00:23:44.140 --> 00:23:47.859 we all know that as brilliant as Einstein was 00:23:47.859 --> 00:23:50.859 and as successful as his general theory of relativity 00:23:50.859 --> 00:23:55.039 has been, it has limits. And one limit is the 00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:58.240 center of a black hole, and another limit is 00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:02.079 the very birth of the universe itself. But getting 00:24:02.079 --> 00:24:05.660 back to your question, the Big Bang. So we have 00:24:05.660 --> 00:24:08.859 top people working on trying to resolve this 00:24:08.859 --> 00:24:12.700 singularity problem. And in so doing, you get 00:24:12.700 --> 00:24:15.400 to some ideas that, well, maybe our Big Bang, 00:24:15.500 --> 00:24:17.140 because the Big Bang is not going to go away. 00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:19.500 All the data support this. So now I've got this 00:24:19.500 --> 00:24:24.400 Big Bang thing, okay? And, well, is this embedded 00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:30.220 in something bigger? Ooh. So when you put like 00:24:30.220 --> 00:24:32.859 quantum physics and general relativity and you 00:24:32.859 --> 00:24:35.059 try to come up with some bigger understanding, 00:24:35.240 --> 00:24:37.200 deeper understanding, strength theorists have 00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:41.619 been all into this. You get a multiverse. We 00:24:41.619 --> 00:24:43.380 didn't pull that out of our ass. That came out 00:24:43.380 --> 00:24:47.180 of the equations. So how old is the multiverse? 00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:50.519 I don't know. It's definitely older than our 00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:53.059 universe because it birthed our universe and 00:24:53.059 --> 00:24:56.609 it births other universes and it births. The 00:24:56.609 --> 00:25:00.130 way the equations drive it, an infinity of universes. 00:25:01.009 --> 00:25:02.849 This is the idea that maybe there's a version 00:25:02.849 --> 00:25:05.930 of us in another where I'm bald and you got the 00:25:05.930 --> 00:25:09.349 afro, but everything else is the same. And also 00:25:09.349 --> 00:25:11.509 a version where everything's the same. Where 00:25:11.509 --> 00:25:13.730 everything would be the same, yes. Everything 00:25:13.730 --> 00:25:15.930 you've ever said has been said before exactly 00:25:15.930 --> 00:25:18.150 in the same order. Correct. There's no reason 00:25:18.150 --> 00:25:22.789 to presume that everything in this universe hasn't 00:25:22.789 --> 00:25:26.980 already played out. in the exact way in another 00:25:26.980 --> 00:25:28.859 one of these infinite universes. And in an infinite 00:25:28.859 --> 00:25:33.140 number of different ways. Correct. And so that 00:25:33.140 --> 00:25:35.279 is what comes out of the equations. So that makes 00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:37.779 the Big Bang a kind of a small part of a much 00:25:37.779 --> 00:25:41.140 larger whole. And so, yeah, we're ready for that. 00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:44.079 But the fact that the universe had a beginning 00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:46.400 14 billion years ago, and there's the cosmic 00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:51.299 microwave background, all of these features are 00:25:51.299 --> 00:25:53.220 intact. They're not going to all of a sudden 00:25:53.220 --> 00:25:56.039 not... Apply that's my point. That's my long 00:25:56.039 --> 00:25:58.480 answer to your so this clean thing that happened 00:25:58.480 --> 00:26:02.339 14 billion years ago What is the predominant 00:26:02.339 --> 00:26:08.819 theory of why? So this multiverse concept gives 00:26:08.819 --> 00:26:16.200 us a reason why okay, so It's like imagine you're 00:26:16.200 --> 00:26:21.480 rolling around in a basin Okay, and you're stable 00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:25.750 there You're just fine. But then something kicks 00:26:25.750 --> 00:26:28.069 you out of the basin and you didn't know that 00:26:28.069 --> 00:26:31.569 there's a huge hill to roll down after you come 00:26:31.569 --> 00:26:33.730 out of that basin. But you didn't know that. 00:26:33.769 --> 00:26:35.950 You thought everything was just fine. You roll 00:26:35.950 --> 00:26:39.750 down that hill, you're gaining energy. At the 00:26:39.750 --> 00:26:44.250 bottom of the hill, something stops you. And 00:26:44.250 --> 00:26:47.509 then where does all that energy go? One of the 00:26:47.509 --> 00:26:49.430 hypotheses, and I'm highly simplifying here, 00:26:49.529 --> 00:26:52.700 is that... The energy gained by rolling down 00:26:52.700 --> 00:26:55.539 a hill, and these are energy hills that would 00:26:55.539 --> 00:26:58.079 exist in this sort of higher dimensional space 00:26:58.079 --> 00:27:02.140 that we're talking about. That energy has to 00:27:02.140 --> 00:27:04.940 manifest in that object somehow, and it becomes 00:27:04.940 --> 00:27:07.740 an explosion. With enough energy, it gives birth 00:27:07.740 --> 00:27:10.299 to matter, everything that we know and love, 00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:12.500 and it expands. Because when you concentrate 00:27:12.500 --> 00:27:14.900 that much energy in a small spot, that's the 00:27:14.900 --> 00:27:17.369 only thing you... can do. I understand that you're 00:27:17.369 --> 00:27:19.309 simplifying it, but I don't understand. Simplify 00:27:19.309 --> 00:27:22.630 it in the sense that by using this basin analogy 00:27:22.630 --> 00:27:25.710 and rolling down a hill, that there are equations 00:27:25.710 --> 00:27:29.750 of the energetics of a system, and this is called 00:27:29.750 --> 00:27:36.529 a false vacuum. So you can be in a place that's 00:27:36.529 --> 00:27:39.630 not the true bottom energy state of the system, 00:27:39.730 --> 00:27:44.250 but you think everything is fine, but it's not. 00:27:44.430 --> 00:27:49.250 And so, If you move around among these hills 00:27:49.250 --> 00:27:52.009 and valleys, you end up birthing universes out 00:27:52.009 --> 00:27:57.009 the other side. And this multiverse concept actually 00:27:57.009 --> 00:27:59.730 delivers this for you, basically for free. That 00:27:59.730 --> 00:28:04.049 thought would be that the Big Bang is just one 00:28:04.049 --> 00:28:08.250 of many events that happen in the multiverse. 00:28:08.390 --> 00:28:11.650 Correct. And not only that, it could be that 00:28:11.650 --> 00:28:16.509 other... Big Bang events might have a different, 00:28:16.769 --> 00:28:21.049 slightly different laws of physics in it. So 00:28:21.049 --> 00:28:24.450 you want to watch out for that if you cross over 00:28:24.450 --> 00:28:27.289 from one universe to the other and the charge 00:28:27.289 --> 00:28:30.250 on the electron is slightly different. You could 00:28:30.250 --> 00:28:34.470 like, all your atoms could just scatter or compress 00:28:34.470 --> 00:28:38.069 into a pile of goo. Yeah, so take a... Take something 00:28:38.069 --> 00:28:40.630 to test first. Yeah, send a chicken out there. 00:28:43.369 --> 00:28:46.150 Chickens get no respect. Whatever happened to 00:28:46.150 --> 00:28:48.869 guinea pigs? Well, guinea pigs are cute in their 00:28:48.869 --> 00:28:52.490 fur. They're cute and furry. Oh, my gosh. Chickens 00:28:52.490 --> 00:28:54.170 are way easier to just send to space. I spent 00:28:54.170 --> 00:28:58.390 a whole section in this book talking about people 00:28:58.390 --> 00:29:01.410 who love animals and want to care for them and 00:29:01.410 --> 00:29:03.869 don't want to eat them. But the only loved ones 00:29:03.869 --> 00:29:05.730 that are cuddly. Oh, yeah, for sure. You make 00:29:05.730 --> 00:29:08.230 a plush toy out of it. My agent said that. She 00:29:08.230 --> 00:29:09.890 knows I hunt. She's like, you should hunt pigs 00:29:09.890 --> 00:29:14.029 because they're ugly. I'm like, how dare you? 00:29:14.369 --> 00:29:16.730 First of all, domesticated pigs are adorable. 00:29:17.750 --> 00:29:20.670 They are. Yeah. Domesticated dogs are ugly, too, 00:29:20.809 --> 00:29:22.950 because they're desperate. In fact, I have a 00:29:22.950 --> 00:29:31.039 voice cameo of a pig. Disney XD cartoon called 00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:34.440 Gravity Falls it's a farmhouse and there's a 00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:37.299 pig that lives with everybody and the pig eats 00:29:37.299 --> 00:29:40.160 some slop that the kids are told makes you smarter 00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:42.859 and so they bought it at a fair or something 00:29:42.859 --> 00:29:45.200 so they went to sleep putting the slop on their 00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:47.539 forehead thinking it would get into their head 00:29:47.539 --> 00:29:49.859 and make them smart. But the pig sees it on their 00:29:49.859 --> 00:29:51.359 forehead and licks it off of their forehead. 00:29:51.619 --> 00:29:54.339 And then overnight, the pig becomes a supreme 00:29:54.339 --> 00:29:57.740 genius, builds an atom smasher, builds a voice 00:29:57.740 --> 00:30:00.500 translator. And while the pig is smart, I'm its 00:30:00.500 --> 00:30:07.960 voice. It's cute. It's cute. And so, but what 00:30:07.960 --> 00:30:11.279 was I talking about before? Big bang. Multiverses, 00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:13.400 different laws of physics. Yeah, slightly different 00:30:13.400 --> 00:30:15.819 laws of physics are a fascinating prospect. How 00:30:15.819 --> 00:30:18.019 they might vary and how you might want to avoid 00:30:18.019 --> 00:30:19.619 it. Oh, when I was talking about you want to 00:30:19.619 --> 00:30:25.859 save animals, I've never seen anyone say save 00:30:25.859 --> 00:30:29.119 the leeches. No, no one cares about bugs. Save 00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:32.079 the ticks. In particular, parasites. Save the 00:30:32.079 --> 00:30:35.240 mosquitoes. Mosquitoes, you know, the biggest 00:30:35.240 --> 00:30:39.039 enemy of humans. As big an enemy as we are to 00:30:39.039 --> 00:30:41.880 each other through warfare in the history of 00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:46.099 civilization, the greatest enemy to human life 00:30:46.099 --> 00:30:50.140 has been the mosquito. Responsible for more than 00:30:50.140 --> 00:30:53.180 a billion human deaths in the history of civilization. 00:30:53.619 --> 00:30:59.400 And so here we have mosquitoes, ticks, tapeworms, 00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:04.339 you know, go down the list and you can ask if 00:31:04.339 --> 00:31:07.690 you really. Into animals and don't want to kill 00:31:07.690 --> 00:31:10.289 them if you heard that ticks were endangered 00:31:10.289 --> 00:31:13.450 Would you start a movement to protect ticks? 00:31:13.970 --> 00:31:17.529 would you do that and If you would have more 00:31:17.529 --> 00:31:20.650 power to you, but I'm thinking you're not why 00:31:20.650 --> 00:31:23.559 would you if you know about Lyme disease? This 00:31:23.559 --> 00:31:26.500 is my point. This is my point. By the way, the 00:31:26.500 --> 00:31:29.700 Lyme virus wants to live too, right? These are 00:31:29.700 --> 00:31:32.960 all creatures on God's green earth, right? And 00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:38.279 so you end up being a species bigot. In the chapter 00:31:38.279 --> 00:31:43.859 Meatarians and Vegetarians, there's the philosophies 00:31:43.859 --> 00:31:49.099 that each of those camps will embrace. And the 00:31:49.099 --> 00:31:52.059 question is how thoroughly thought through are 00:31:52.059 --> 00:31:55.460 those? In one example, let's say you don't want 00:31:55.460 --> 00:32:00.940 to kill animals. So you have a humane mousetrap 00:32:00.940 --> 00:32:04.480 in your basement. Okay? Why not? You don't want 00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:07.079 to snap the neck of the mouse. That's cruel. 00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:11.099 And you like animals, right? So you save the 00:32:11.099 --> 00:32:12.920 mouse. You got to check on it every few days 00:32:12.920 --> 00:32:15.079 because they dry out quickly if you trap it. 00:32:15.299 --> 00:32:18.359 So what do you do when you catch it? What do 00:32:18.359 --> 00:32:20.299 they do? Release it. Release it back into the 00:32:20.299 --> 00:32:24.640 wild. guaranteeing the mouse gets eaten whole 00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:28.480 by an owl or pecked apart by all manner of woodland 00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:32.660 predators between nine and 18 months of its life. 00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:37.779 So the safest thing to do with your mouse is 00:32:37.779 --> 00:32:41.220 to leave it in your basement. If you really care 00:32:41.220 --> 00:32:44.759 about animal life and the mouse managed to get 00:32:44.759 --> 00:32:46.980 into your basement, leave it there. It'll live 00:32:46.980 --> 00:32:49.180 up to six years in your basement. I lived in 00:32:49.180 --> 00:32:52.109 Colorado for a while next to an ashram. And I 00:32:52.109 --> 00:32:54.109 was visiting the ashram and talking to the woman 00:32:54.109 --> 00:32:57.910 who runs it. And she sprayed raid all over these 00:32:57.910 --> 00:33:01.950 ants. And I go, what are you doing? And she's 00:33:01.950 --> 00:33:04.529 like, well, it's unfortunate. But, you know, 00:33:04.549 --> 00:33:07.490 we have to address the fact that we have an infestation 00:33:07.490 --> 00:33:11.450 of insects. I'm like, you just mass killed all 00:33:11.450 --> 00:33:15.829 these living beings with poison from the sky. 00:33:17.069 --> 00:33:19.490 And you did it in front of me. Aerial assault. 00:33:19.789 --> 00:33:23.349 While you're espousing the benefits of Buddhism 00:33:23.349 --> 00:33:29.009 and meditation. Yeah, so people kind of cherry 00:33:29.009 --> 00:33:34.069 pick. Yeah. And I understand it. It's odd. I 00:33:34.069 --> 00:33:36.049 don't mind if someone cherry picks as long as 00:33:36.049 --> 00:33:39.029 they're completely self -aware of it. Most people 00:33:39.029 --> 00:33:42.089 aren't. And by the way, the home where you're 00:33:42.089 --> 00:33:45.490 saving the mouse, I did a rough calculation. 00:33:46.460 --> 00:33:48.740 It's probably made from the wood of about 50 00:33:48.740 --> 00:33:51.980 trees. Each tree could have lived 100 years but 00:33:51.980 --> 00:33:54.359 didn't because it was cut down to make your home. 00:33:54.599 --> 00:33:59.920 The studs, the 2x4s, the floorboards, the wall 00:33:59.920 --> 00:34:06.039 panels, the siding. And each of those trees was 00:34:06.039 --> 00:34:10.519 home to birds and insects and fungus and squirrels 00:34:10.519 --> 00:34:17.489 and every day of that tree's life. Via photosynthesis, 00:34:17.670 --> 00:34:23.329 it created 15 times the mass of the mouse in 00:34:23.329 --> 00:34:28.369 breathable oxygen. So I ask you, who do you think 00:34:28.369 --> 00:34:33.730 nature cares more about? The tree or your one 00:34:33.730 --> 00:34:36.969 ounce mouse? Probably the tree. I'm thinking. 00:34:37.329 --> 00:34:40.570 And some trees live a thousand years. Well, have 00:34:40.570 --> 00:34:42.289 you paid attention to some of the new research 00:34:42.289 --> 00:34:44.400 that's being done about how... Trees communicate 00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:45.460 with each other. I'll get to that. Yeah, I'll 00:34:45.460 --> 00:34:47.860 get to that. That's in that chapter, the meatarians 00:34:47.860 --> 00:34:51.119 and vegetarians chapter. So trees are fascinating. 00:34:51.420 --> 00:34:53.719 I've heard people say, well, the mouse has a 00:34:53.719 --> 00:34:56.639 beating heart and the tree does not or plants 00:34:56.639 --> 00:35:00.039 do not and animals do. And I said to my, well, 00:35:00.059 --> 00:35:05.039 let me think this through. If you cloak a tree, 00:35:05.239 --> 00:35:09.539 does it not suffocate? If you cut a tree, does 00:35:09.539 --> 00:35:14.010 it not bleed? If you cut off its nutrients at 00:35:14.010 --> 00:35:18.329 the base, does it not wither and die? Well, when 00:35:18.329 --> 00:35:20.170 they're aware they're being eaten, they release 00:35:20.170 --> 00:35:23.050 plant defense chemicals. I'm getting there. All 00:35:23.050 --> 00:35:27.030 I'm saying is the tree gets nutrients from the 00:35:27.030 --> 00:35:32.630 soil to the topmost leaf. It does it not for 00:35:32.630 --> 00:35:36.030 want of a beating heart. It does it in spite 00:35:36.030 --> 00:35:41.039 of not having one. It has a circulation. It just 00:35:41.039 --> 00:35:44.179 has a different way of life. It's where I get 00:35:44.179 --> 00:35:50.760 my maple syrup from, tree blood. So to fault 00:35:50.760 --> 00:35:52.980 a tree or plant life for not having a beating 00:35:52.980 --> 00:35:55.800 heart, when it's not that they need one and don't 00:35:55.800 --> 00:35:59.340 have one, it's that they don't need one and never 00:35:59.340 --> 00:36:03.420 wanted one. Now, you're talking about the mycelium. 00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:06.619 So this is an interconnected network. It's a 00:36:06.619 --> 00:36:11.210 fungal network. underfoot in a forest where it 00:36:11.210 --> 00:36:13.809 connects multiple kingdoms of life. There are 00:36:13.809 --> 00:36:15.650 four kingdoms. You might have learned that there 00:36:15.650 --> 00:36:18.289 were two. We've upped it since then. Those two 00:36:18.289 --> 00:36:21.690 kingdoms are still intact. But like I said, now 00:36:21.690 --> 00:36:23.449 there's more. It's embedded in a larger truth. 00:36:23.510 --> 00:36:25.869 There's the plant kingdom, animal kingdom, fungal 00:36:25.869 --> 00:36:28.670 kingdom. And then we have a kingdom that includes 00:36:28.670 --> 00:36:32.530 all of the bacteria and archaea and other microscopic 00:36:32.530 --> 00:36:36.750 life forms. And so here's an interesting fact. 00:36:38.360 --> 00:36:41.820 Lost sleep for a week over this. Ready? If you 00:36:41.820 --> 00:36:46.599 look at the common ancestor between fungus and 00:36:46.599 --> 00:36:49.239 animals, because the tree of life ultimately 00:36:49.239 --> 00:36:55.340 has one taproot, okay? And as it splits, it speciates, 00:36:55.340 --> 00:36:57.800 and you get all these things. The diversity of 00:36:57.800 --> 00:37:04.360 life on Earth is enabled by the fact that life 00:37:04.360 --> 00:37:07.420 can speciate. Okay. You look at the common ancestor 00:37:07.420 --> 00:37:11.139 between animals and fungus. The common ancestor 00:37:11.139 --> 00:37:17.519 between humans and mushrooms split later than 00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:21.900 its common ancestor split with green plants. 00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:28.139 What that means is we and mushrooms are more 00:37:28.139 --> 00:37:33.320 alike than either we or mushrooms are to green 00:37:33.320 --> 00:37:38.650 plants. Well, mushrooms breathe oxygen. All I'm 00:37:38.650 --> 00:37:42.409 saying is, you grill a portobello mushroom? What's 00:37:42.409 --> 00:37:45.309 the first word people use to describe it? Vegetarian. 00:37:45.530 --> 00:37:52.349 No, no. No, we talk about mushrooms tasting meaty. 00:37:52.449 --> 00:37:55.369 Yeah. Yeah, meaty. Meaty mushroom. No one has, 00:37:55.510 --> 00:37:57.989 last I checked, no one has ever accused kale 00:37:57.989 --> 00:38:01.989 of tasting meaty. No. So in a way, we're kind 00:38:01.989 --> 00:38:07.730 of biting into ourselves. Plus mushrooms, you 00:38:07.730 --> 00:38:12.230 know, shrooms, you know, people have whole relationships 00:38:12.230 --> 00:38:15.690 with mushrooms. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And 00:38:15.690 --> 00:38:18.250 mushrooms are fungus. Fungus thrives on our body. 00:38:18.429 --> 00:38:20.309 Have you ever done psychedelic mushrooms? I've 00:38:20.309 --> 00:38:24.150 never done anything psychedelic. Why? Can I tell 00:38:24.150 --> 00:38:26.630 you why? Yeah, please do. So I don't know if 00:38:26.630 --> 00:38:29.190 it's a good reason. I don't know if it's the 00:38:29.190 --> 00:38:32.349 best reason that can exist. But for me, it's 00:38:32.349 --> 00:38:37.760 a really good reason. The human mind barely works 00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:44.900 as it is. Barely. You ever see a book of optical 00:38:44.900 --> 00:38:48.719 illusions? No one doesn't love a good book of 00:38:48.719 --> 00:38:50.340 optical illusions. And you turn the page. Oh, 00:38:50.340 --> 00:38:51.880 what is that? Oh, is it in the page? Out of the 00:38:51.880 --> 00:38:54.219 page? Is the line longer? Is it shorter? And 00:38:54.219 --> 00:38:56.880 you scratch in your head. These are simple line 00:38:56.880 --> 00:39:01.159 drawings that confound the human mind's ability 00:39:01.159 --> 00:39:08.579 to interpret. Our brain barely works as an accurate 00:39:08.579 --> 00:39:13.699 decoder of the natural world around you. You 00:39:13.699 --> 00:39:18.380 now want to stir in chemicals? I recognize it'll 00:39:18.380 --> 00:39:21.940 take you on a ride, but I have always valued 00:39:21.940 --> 00:39:28.920 objective reality. I don't want anything interfering 00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:33.059 with my understanding. of what is actually happening 00:39:33.059 --> 00:39:35.679 in front of me. And there are people who would 00:39:35.679 --> 00:39:40.579 claim that under the influence, they're accessing 00:39:40.579 --> 00:39:45.639 some actual other reality. All I can say is if 00:39:45.639 --> 00:39:49.619 in that other reality you can, you know, invent 00:39:49.619 --> 00:39:51.840 the James Webb Space Telescope, tell me about 00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:55.559 it. If you can figure out how to fly, you know, 00:39:55.619 --> 00:40:00.300 and if you can do that, tell us about it. And 00:40:00.300 --> 00:40:02.679 the people say, oh, I visited Venus when I was 00:40:02.679 --> 00:40:04.539 on a head trip. Did you bring back evidence? 00:40:04.639 --> 00:40:07.179 Evidence matters. Do you bring it? No. But it 00:40:07.179 --> 00:40:09.539 was in their head. Well, the material world, 00:40:09.719 --> 00:40:12.559 what we're talking about is actual physical objects, 00:40:12.739 --> 00:40:15.980 right? It's like if you could bring back something. 00:40:15.980 --> 00:40:18.619 The physical universe. The physical. What they're 00:40:18.619 --> 00:40:22.780 experiencing is something akin to what you could 00:40:22.780 --> 00:40:27.539 call a hallucination. You could call it. a portal 00:40:27.539 --> 00:40:31.380 where physical reality doesn't exist and you 00:40:31.380 --> 00:40:33.659 only exist as consciousness. Here's my skepticism. 00:40:33.800 --> 00:40:36.539 I don't mind people saying that they visited 00:40:36.539 --> 00:40:39.539 another planet or whatever, wherever they visiting 00:40:39.539 --> 00:40:44.880 or some astral plane. Okay. I don't. Okay. I'm, 00:40:44.960 --> 00:40:48.699 you know, write a travel log and share it with 00:40:48.699 --> 00:40:52.840 people as some have done. I guess I would ask. 00:40:53.630 --> 00:40:56.869 whether what you experienced is part of an objective 00:40:56.869 --> 00:41:00.829 reality that we can all recognize. Because if 00:41:00.829 --> 00:41:03.190 it's not, then it's completely in your head. 00:41:03.570 --> 00:41:06.409 And if it's completely in your head, it's less 00:41:06.409 --> 00:41:08.510 useful. What do you mean by that? Part of an 00:41:08.510 --> 00:41:11.409 objective reality? An objective reality. So here's 00:41:11.409 --> 00:41:16.369 an example. When people have these near -death 00:41:16.369 --> 00:41:19.309 experiences, or one where they're dying on a 00:41:19.309 --> 00:41:23.639 table and a common... They leave their body and 00:41:23.639 --> 00:41:25.920 they look back on themselves. Okay. That's a 00:41:25.920 --> 00:41:28.679 thing going. That's something. Okay. Right. Let's 00:41:28.679 --> 00:41:33.340 investigate this. Okay. So the test for whether 00:41:33.340 --> 00:41:36.539 you really left your body or whether you were 00:41:36.539 --> 00:41:42.260 hallucinating it is get some writing that faces 00:41:42.260 --> 00:41:45.840 the ceiling up above your body. Okay? They've 00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:48.679 done this experiment. And if you're floating 00:41:48.679 --> 00:41:52.320 above your body, above that piece of paper, when 00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:53.900 you come back to life, you should be able to 00:41:53.900 --> 00:41:56.260 say what's written on that piece of paper. And 00:41:56.260 --> 00:41:57.860 that has yet to happen. If you get above it. 00:41:57.980 --> 00:41:59.699 Yeah, if you get above it. Correct. That has 00:41:59.699 --> 00:42:02.539 yet to happen. So where would that piece of paper 00:42:02.539 --> 00:42:04.599 be? Suspended? No, you have to put it up on a 00:42:04.599 --> 00:42:06.380 shelf or something. Yeah, you'd be able to put 00:42:06.380 --> 00:42:08.280 it in a way that it would be clearly... But then 00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:10.760 the person would have to die knowing that piece 00:42:10.760 --> 00:42:13.179 of paper was there and then be brought back? 00:42:15.329 --> 00:42:19.909 Possibly. So you'd have to tell them, hey, I 00:42:19.909 --> 00:42:21.690 know you're going to die. You're going to die. 00:42:21.869 --> 00:42:24.170 If you come back, I have a piece of paper up 00:42:24.170 --> 00:42:26.210 here. Go read from it. That seems like a pretty 00:42:26.210 --> 00:42:28.969 ridiculous experiment to try to achieve. Wait, 00:42:29.130 --> 00:42:33.050 wait, wait. Pause. Pause? Ridiculous experiment. 00:42:33.329 --> 00:42:34.989 It's like, hey, I know this guy's about to die, 00:42:35.050 --> 00:42:36.550 but instead of concentrating on bringing him 00:42:36.550 --> 00:42:38.690 back to life, let's write down on a piece of 00:42:38.690 --> 00:42:40.969 paper and leave it on the shelf. But who the 00:42:40.969 --> 00:42:42.550 fuck is going to do that? You know what they 00:42:42.550 --> 00:42:48.010 did? What? In 1895, after Wilhelm Röntgen discovers 00:42:48.010 --> 00:42:50.809 x -rays and they find out it penetrates your 00:42:50.809 --> 00:42:53.010 body and you can see bones inside your body, 00:42:53.130 --> 00:42:55.010 you know what they did? What? They set up x -ray 00:42:55.010 --> 00:42:59.500 machines at the bedside of dying people. to see 00:42:59.500 --> 00:43:03.659 if they can see a soul leave the body. Then everybody 00:43:03.659 --> 00:43:06.380 just got cancer from the radiation. They died 00:43:06.380 --> 00:43:11.070 from cancer? I thought that was an admirable 00:43:11.070 --> 00:43:13.269 attempt. Yes. Interesting. To make a measurement. 00:43:13.289 --> 00:43:15.750 Yeah, that's interesting. Yes. But how would 00:43:15.750 --> 00:43:18.789 you possibly know that someone is going to die 00:43:18.789 --> 00:43:21.869 and or have a near -death experiment? A near 00:43:21.869 --> 00:43:24.210 -death experience, rather, and then put a piece 00:43:24.210 --> 00:43:27.030 of paper on a shelf? What you want to do, you'd 00:43:27.030 --> 00:43:28.929 have to be really organized about that. Yeah. 00:43:28.969 --> 00:43:31.170 And if you want to do this en masse. You'd have 00:43:31.170 --> 00:43:32.969 to just, like, have shelves in every bedroom. 00:43:32.969 --> 00:43:35.630 Have shelves in every room. Of every ER. Every 00:43:35.630 --> 00:43:38.860 ER, correct. How often does that happen where 00:43:38.860 --> 00:43:42.139 people have above their body experiences? It's 00:43:42.139 --> 00:43:43.960 very frequently reported. Very frequently? Oh, 00:43:43.960 --> 00:43:48.320 yeah. I'm just saying that the brain is capable 00:43:48.320 --> 00:43:51.039 of so much extraordinary thought within itself. 00:43:51.320 --> 00:43:56.000 Of course. That what I care about for the world 00:43:56.000 --> 00:43:59.099 is what is objectively true. And what's objectively 00:43:59.099 --> 00:44:02.239 true can be verified by multiple people. And 00:44:02.239 --> 00:44:06.800 if it's only true within your head. It's not 00:44:06.800 --> 00:44:10.039 useful is all I'm saying. How could it not be 00:44:10.039 --> 00:44:13.099 useful if it's useful to you? And if useful to 00:44:13.099 --> 00:44:15.940 you – but hold on. If it's useful to you and 00:44:15.940 --> 00:44:19.519 then that usefulness to you actually manifests 00:44:19.519 --> 00:44:22.320 itself in something that gets created because 00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:24.980 of this experience. Like Cary Mullis created 00:44:24.980 --> 00:44:29.260 the PCR method because he had an acid trip. And 00:44:29.260 --> 00:44:31.699 during the acid trip came up with this idea. 00:44:31.900 --> 00:44:36.719 So I – What we'd have to ask is, how frequent 00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:39.679 is that? So you get everybody who takes trips 00:44:39.679 --> 00:44:45.119 of any kind, be it mushrooms or acid, and look 00:44:45.119 --> 00:44:48.099 at the body of their new thoughts that have come 00:44:48.099 --> 00:44:52.480 from them for them having, when they credit it. 00:44:52.739 --> 00:44:56.969 And Carl Sagan was a big pothead. Okay? And highly 00:44:56.969 --> 00:45:01.389 productive scientist. So the question is, does 00:45:01.389 --> 00:45:03.789 it give you some insight which, when you were 00:45:03.789 --> 00:45:06.690 not under the influence, gets you closer to an 00:45:06.690 --> 00:45:08.690 objective reality? That's an interesting question. 00:45:08.869 --> 00:45:10.909 Carl Sagan actually believed that there was, 00:45:11.130 --> 00:45:13.869 the way he described, what was his description, 00:45:14.010 --> 00:45:16.690 the way he described it? But he said he believed 00:45:16.690 --> 00:45:18.550 that there are thoughts that were only available 00:45:18.550 --> 00:45:20.909 when you were under the influence of marijuana. 00:45:21.150 --> 00:45:23.719 That is certainly the case for any drug. But 00:45:23.719 --> 00:45:25.480 he felt like those thoughts were beneficial. 00:45:25.539 --> 00:45:28.579 Well, I can ask, are those thoughts more connected 00:45:28.579 --> 00:45:31.500 to reality than if you were not so influenced? 00:45:31.679 --> 00:45:34.900 I did an experiment with myself. When I first 00:45:34.900 --> 00:45:37.880 started writing in graduate school at a monthly 00:45:37.880 --> 00:45:41.039 column, I... You know, there's that stereotype 00:45:41.039 --> 00:45:45.559 of Hemingway with a drink, you know, and they're 00:45:45.559 --> 00:45:48.000 writing and that's their creative moment. I said, 00:45:48.079 --> 00:45:50.719 I don't really like hard liquor, but I like wine. 00:45:50.900 --> 00:45:53.500 So I said, let me get a bottle of wine and drink 00:45:53.500 --> 00:45:55.260 wine while I write. And I said, yeah, this is 00:45:55.260 --> 00:45:59.320 good. This is good. And I'm doing it. And then 00:45:59.320 --> 00:46:03.619 I did it without wine. This is an experiment 00:46:03.619 --> 00:46:06.480 I conducted on myself. And it was not as fun. 00:46:07.720 --> 00:46:10.320 Composing without the influence of just some 00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:13.619 you know a smooth sort of low level sort of wine 00:46:13.619 --> 00:46:18.119 buzz But I looked at the two there was no contest 00:46:18.119 --> 00:46:22.519 my Completely sober writing was vastly better 00:46:22.519 --> 00:46:25.179 than what I was writing under the influence of 00:46:25.579 --> 00:46:28.039 Several glasses of wine. Even though I believed 00:46:28.039 --> 00:46:30.099 it was really good. But hold on a second. What 00:46:30.099 --> 00:46:32.039 kind of writing are you talking about? If you're 00:46:32.039 --> 00:46:34.519 talking about fiction? No, no, prose. Okay. Prose. 00:46:34.679 --> 00:46:37.920 What are the greatest examples of fiction enhancing, 00:46:38.360 --> 00:46:41.360 being enhanced rather by, under the influence 00:46:41.360 --> 00:46:44.699 of... drugs and chemicals is Stephen King. If 00:46:44.699 --> 00:46:47.980 you go and read Stephen King's early work versus 00:46:47.980 --> 00:46:50.739 the stuff after he got sober, and I'm a gigantic 00:46:50.739 --> 00:46:53.219 Stephen King fan. Was it just alcohol in his 00:46:53.219 --> 00:46:55.340 case? Cocaine. Oh, other drugs too. A lot of 00:46:55.340 --> 00:46:57.739 cocaine, a lot of alcohol, cigarettes, a lot 00:46:57.739 --> 00:47:01.019 of cigarettes. It was way better. It's vastly 00:47:01.019 --> 00:47:04.300 superior. Darker, deeper, stranger, more bizarre, 00:47:04.420 --> 00:47:06.340 more shocking. In the day, you're saying? In 00:47:06.340 --> 00:47:08.619 the day. Read it today. Read Carrie today. No, 00:47:08.639 --> 00:47:10.699 no, no. You're saying what he created in the 00:47:10.699 --> 00:47:13.039 day under that influence. Yes. The stuff under 00:47:13.039 --> 00:47:14.539 the influence. The stuff he created under the 00:47:14.539 --> 00:47:16.300 influence. Carrie is deeply dark. Oh, my gosh. 00:47:16.380 --> 00:47:18.760 It's so dark. Oh, yeah. It's so dark. So is Pet 00:47:18.760 --> 00:47:21.239 Sematary. Almost all of them. What was Shawshank 00:47:21.239 --> 00:47:23.900 Redemption? I think all of them were when he 00:47:23.900 --> 00:47:26.440 was fucked up. He wrote some good stuff after 00:47:26.440 --> 00:47:28.900 he was fucked up. But like Cujo, he doesn't even 00:47:28.900 --> 00:47:32.920 remember writing. And it's fantastic. So is this 00:47:32.920 --> 00:47:35.880 something you would recommend for creative people? 00:47:35.880 --> 00:47:37.920 I recommend Stephen King. Get back on Coke, sir. 00:47:38.420 --> 00:47:42.119 Stay off Twitter. Get back on Coke. I'm kidding. 00:47:42.179 --> 00:47:44.739 So my one little experiment with glasses of wine. 00:47:44.840 --> 00:47:46.860 Yeah, that's not enough. That experiment's not 00:47:46.860 --> 00:47:50.320 enough. I personally feel that under the influence 00:47:50.320 --> 00:47:52.440 of marijuana, I come up with some of my best 00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:55.039 ideas for comedy. for stand -up comedy writing. 00:47:55.199 --> 00:47:57.239 I like to, I do the George Carlin method. I hear 00:47:57.239 --> 00:47:58.840 you got a new show ready to drop. I'm looking 00:47:58.840 --> 00:48:00.300 forward to that. I love your work, by the way. 00:48:00.300 --> 00:48:01.980 Thank you very much. Thank you. I do the George 00:48:01.980 --> 00:48:04.699 Carlin method. I write sober and then I punch 00:48:04.699 --> 00:48:07.489 it up high. Okay. As opposed to the opposite. 00:48:07.670 --> 00:48:10.369 Well, George Carlin had a great point. He's like, 00:48:10.429 --> 00:48:12.150 you should write about things that you're thinking 00:48:12.150 --> 00:48:15.050 about and things that are important or things 00:48:15.050 --> 00:48:18.369 that are on your mind. And then he would let 00:48:18.369 --> 00:48:20.670 it sit, and then he would smoke pot and go back 00:48:20.670 --> 00:48:22.449 to it. And then he would come up with all the 00:48:22.449 --> 00:48:25.170 funny, all the ridiculous aspects of it, and 00:48:25.170 --> 00:48:28.480 he would interject them into there. Yeah. Yeah. 00:48:28.539 --> 00:48:32.219 So so I'm just saying to the extent I'd like 00:48:32.219 --> 00:48:35.500 to know how reliable that is. Well, here's the 00:48:35.500 --> 00:48:38.500 other point that I should say. There's many people 00:48:38.500 --> 00:48:41.619 that don't do any drugs that write fantastic 00:48:41.619 --> 00:48:45.300 stuff. And there's many comedians that are completely 00:48:45.300 --> 00:48:47.480 clean and sober that have done their best work 00:48:47.480 --> 00:48:50.139 once they got clean and sober. That's true, too. 00:48:50.340 --> 00:48:52.860 Both those things are true. Right. But I think 00:48:52.860 --> 00:48:54.639 they're tools. And we've lost some comedians. 00:48:54.659 --> 00:48:57.269 I mean, you know. Mitch Hedberg, for example, 00:48:57.389 --> 00:48:59.610 one of my favorites. Yeah, so Mitch was a genius. 00:48:59.909 --> 00:49:01.690 Yeah, I really loved his stuff. And he had a 00:49:01.690 --> 00:49:05.369 really bad drug. His injectable heroin was his 00:49:05.369 --> 00:49:08.690 thing, which is one of the worst. But the point 00:49:08.690 --> 00:49:12.050 is, it's like... Their tools and I used to have 00:49:12.050 --> 00:49:14.409 a joke about it like that marijuana is like any 00:49:14.409 --> 00:49:16.409 other tool It's like a hammer you could build 00:49:16.409 --> 00:49:18.110 a house with a hammer or you could hit yourself 00:49:18.110 --> 00:49:20.510 in the dick if you're fucking crazy And that's 00:49:20.510 --> 00:49:22.929 that's the problem with all sorts of things They 00:49:22.929 --> 00:49:25.489 need to be managed responsibly and people need 00:49:25.489 --> 00:49:28.190 to understand what the effects are what the dosage 00:49:28.190 --> 00:49:29.989 is and that's where science comes Okay, here's 00:49:29.989 --> 00:49:33.789 what I'll do. Here's what I'll do I still have 00:49:33.789 --> 00:49:35.530 some writing projects that I'm going to finish. 00:49:35.610 --> 00:49:38.010 You're going to take mushrooms? No. When I'm 00:49:38.010 --> 00:49:40.469 done with what I know I wanted to write before 00:49:40.469 --> 00:49:44.730 I died, then I will consider this. Then come 00:49:44.730 --> 00:49:47.329 to daddy. I'll come to papa. I'll come to papa. 00:49:47.590 --> 00:49:49.869 We'll hook you up. And then I'll see if some 00:49:49.869 --> 00:49:52.610 new creative thing comes out of me at that time. 00:49:53.090 --> 00:49:55.070 Well, I don't know if new creative things will 00:49:55.070 --> 00:49:58.489 come out of you, but I think thoughts will come 00:49:58.489 --> 00:50:02.079 out. that probably wouldn't exist without them. 00:50:02.179 --> 00:50:06.059 And when you're talking about like really breakthrough 00:50:06.059 --> 00:50:10.619 psychedelic moments like DMT or mushroom psilocybin, 00:50:10.659 --> 00:50:12.579 one of the really fascinating things is they 00:50:12.579 --> 00:50:17.179 mimic neurochemistry. Like DMT is in the brain, 00:50:17.320 --> 00:50:21.360 and it's in all the organs, and it's a part of 00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:24.159 natural human neurochemistry. Well, except, of 00:50:24.159 --> 00:50:26.650 course, so is fentanyl. Fentanyl is a part of 00:50:26.650 --> 00:50:27.869 the human neurochemistry? No, no, you have receptors 00:50:27.869 --> 00:50:31.070 for it. Right, but DMT is produced by the human 00:50:31.070 --> 00:50:34.369 body. It's actually a thing that the body makes. 00:50:34.369 --> 00:50:39.050 We don't know why. The really heavy duty psychedelic 00:50:39.050 --> 00:50:42.010 people think that in large doses, when you take 00:50:42.010 --> 00:50:44.630 it and have these breakthrough experiences, what 00:50:44.630 --> 00:50:47.389 you're doing is you're going through some sort 00:50:47.389 --> 00:50:50.489 of chemical portal. And this chemical portal 00:50:50.489 --> 00:50:53.050 is only available to people in these near death 00:50:53.050 --> 00:50:55.210 experiences under extreme moments of stress, 00:50:55.389 --> 00:50:57.469 where they have like these moments where they 00:50:57.469 --> 00:50:59.730 go through the tunnel and the bright light and 00:50:59.730 --> 00:51:03.300 they meet God. I mean, how many of these? would 00:51:03.300 --> 00:51:05.860 I have to see to be convinced that it's a reliable 00:51:05.860 --> 00:51:07.199 consequence of it? I think you would have to 00:51:07.199 --> 00:51:10.699 do it. I think this conversation is like talking 00:51:10.699 --> 00:51:13.599 to a person who's lived in an underground tunnel 00:51:13.599 --> 00:51:16.679 their whole life who's dismissing sunlight. They're 00:51:16.679 --> 00:51:18.820 like, what's the big deal with sunlight? I'm 00:51:18.820 --> 00:51:22.559 fine down here with light bulbs and you and your 00:51:22.559 --> 00:51:28.920 sunlight. Oh yeah, photosynthesis. I've got hydroponics. 00:51:28.980 --> 00:51:33.369 So you're being a very effective, Drug pusher. 00:51:33.829 --> 00:51:36.670 But the drugs that I'm interested in are not 00:51:36.670 --> 00:51:39.190 dangerous. They're not ones that kill you. Like, 00:51:39.190 --> 00:51:41.489 I've never done cocaine. I've never done heroin. 00:51:41.650 --> 00:51:43.449 I've never done amphetamines. I'm not interested 00:51:43.449 --> 00:51:45.949 in those. Does cocaine kill you? It can. It can 00:51:45.949 --> 00:51:50.090 if you're rich enough. Well, it certainly can 00:51:50.090 --> 00:51:51.989 kill you today because so much of it is laced 00:51:51.989 --> 00:51:53.849 with fentanyl. Oh, yeah. Which is one of the 00:51:53.849 --> 00:51:55.849 number one killers of young people, unfortunately, 00:51:56.030 --> 00:52:00.500 is fentanyl. contamination of drugs. But I'm 00:52:00.500 --> 00:52:03.420 interested in pharmacology. I'm interested in 00:52:03.420 --> 00:52:07.199 what happens to the mind when it's under the 00:52:07.199 --> 00:52:09.159 influence of different substances. Yeah, I guess 00:52:09.159 --> 00:52:15.059 I'm less interested because I have to think more 00:52:15.059 --> 00:52:21.099 about what you said. But look at how people misinterpret 00:52:21.099 --> 00:52:23.800 reality. when they're not on anything. It's a 00:52:23.800 --> 00:52:25.679 good point, and another good point is there's 00:52:25.679 --> 00:52:27.199 many people that under the influence of those 00:52:27.199 --> 00:52:28.480 drugs. The failure of eyewitness testimony just 00:52:28.480 --> 00:52:30.739 to say what actually happened. Sure, and that's 00:52:30.739 --> 00:52:33.519 under extreme duress. People end up in jail because 00:52:33.519 --> 00:52:35.000 of that. Yes, for the rest of their lives. Yes. 00:52:35.260 --> 00:52:38.119 Listen, I've had many, many conversations with 00:52:38.119 --> 00:52:40.219 people on this podcast about that because I've 00:52:40.219 --> 00:52:43.860 worked with my friend Josh Dubin, who was originally 00:52:43.860 --> 00:52:46.280 an ambassador for the Innocence Project. Innocence 00:52:46.280 --> 00:52:47.719 Project. He's done a bunch of stuff on his own 00:52:47.719 --> 00:52:50.760 where he's gotten many, many, many people out 00:52:50.760 --> 00:52:53.750 of jail. since project even has to exist in this 00:52:53.750 --> 00:52:57.809 world is itself a travesty. Well, I'm hoping 00:52:57.809 --> 00:53:00.730 that with science, there's going to come a time 00:53:00.730 --> 00:53:03.530 where we can actually read the contents of people's 00:53:03.530 --> 00:53:08.230 minds and that this will no longer be, I remember 00:53:08.230 --> 00:53:10.610 this. It's an episode of Black Mirror. Yes, yes, 00:53:10.809 --> 00:53:14.989 yes. But I think maybe, yes, that would be interesting. 00:53:14.989 --> 00:53:16.809 But isn't the problem is that false memories 00:53:16.809 --> 00:53:19.500 are a real thing. There are people who believe 00:53:19.500 --> 00:53:21.820 something, and if you read their mind, you'll 00:53:21.820 --> 00:53:24.260 just see what it is that they believe. But I 00:53:24.260 --> 00:53:27.440 wonder if you could sort of back -engineer that 00:53:27.440 --> 00:53:29.539 belief. I wonder if it could get to the point 00:53:29.539 --> 00:53:32.840 where you could say, oh, you believe this because 00:53:32.840 --> 00:53:35.639 this is a memory of the way you've described 00:53:35.639 --> 00:53:37.940 the memory. No, we just do it Black Mirror style, 00:53:38.139 --> 00:53:41.119 and you have a chip that records everything that 00:53:41.119 --> 00:53:42.739 you see. That's probably the future. There's 00:53:42.739 --> 00:53:47.889 a chapter in here called... law and order, where 00:53:47.889 --> 00:53:52.090 I get into the role of science in deciding whether 00:53:52.090 --> 00:53:56.670 someone is guilty or innocent. And it's the idea 00:53:56.670 --> 00:53:59.650 that in a courtroom, someone says, I need a witness. 00:54:00.030 --> 00:54:04.090 This is like in the court of science, that's 00:54:04.090 --> 00:54:06.730 the last thing you are ever asking for. Because 00:54:06.730 --> 00:54:09.829 we know, psychologists knew this first. The rest 00:54:09.829 --> 00:54:14.079 of us figured it out after the fact that Eyewitness 00:54:14.079 --> 00:54:16.239 testimony is one of the least reliable forms. 00:54:16.940 --> 00:54:21.340 The third time I was rejected from jury duty, 00:54:21.500 --> 00:54:28.360 I show up dutifully, okay? And the third time 00:54:28.360 --> 00:54:31.059 they said there was a woman who was robbed on 00:54:31.059 --> 00:54:34.500 the street of her groceries and her purse. And 00:54:34.500 --> 00:54:36.800 they had the person who she accuses positively 00:54:36.800 --> 00:54:43.840 identifies and her. It's a literal he said, she 00:54:43.840 --> 00:54:47.019 said, okay? We read the particulars of the case. 00:54:47.579 --> 00:54:49.719 She said he robbed her, the groceries, took it, 00:54:49.739 --> 00:54:52.619 and then ran off. When the cops found the guy, 00:54:52.739 --> 00:54:55.280 he was not in possession of anything she said 00:54:55.280 --> 00:54:57.320 he took. They looked in the area if anything 00:54:57.320 --> 00:54:58.880 stashed in dumpsters or anything. They didn't 00:54:58.880 --> 00:55:01.820 find anything, okay? So that's the state of the 00:55:01.820 --> 00:55:05.940 case. The judge reads the particulars and goes 00:55:05.940 --> 00:55:08.840 to the – I'm down to the last 15. I'm almost 00:55:08.840 --> 00:55:11.179 on a jury. For the first time in my life, I'm 00:55:11.179 --> 00:55:14.760 almost there. And said, do you have any – does 00:55:14.760 --> 00:55:16.659 anyone have any – think they would not be able 00:55:16.659 --> 00:55:19.639 to convict based on the kind of information and 00:55:19.639 --> 00:55:23.300 evidence that's been presented? And there's a 00:55:23.300 --> 00:55:25.460 juror, 14, whatever, you're numbered, right, 00:55:25.519 --> 00:55:29.619 until you're selected. He said, would you have 00:55:29.619 --> 00:55:33.730 any – I said, yes, I'd have a problem. If the 00:55:33.730 --> 00:55:37.409 only evidence available is eyewitness testimony, 00:55:37.769 --> 00:55:43.510 then everything I know about it tells me I should 00:55:43.510 --> 00:55:45.570 not trust it on the level where you end up putting 00:55:45.570 --> 00:55:50.170 someone in jail. So I could not convict if that's 00:55:50.170 --> 00:55:52.690 the only evidence you have. What the judge said 00:55:52.690 --> 00:55:57.250 next was, are there any other jurors, like juror 00:55:57.250 --> 00:56:02.989 14, who needs more than one witness? before they 00:56:02.989 --> 00:56:07.889 would be able to convict. And I said, should 00:56:07.889 --> 00:56:10.630 I jump in now and say that's not what I said? 00:56:10.650 --> 00:56:13.369 What should I do? The person in front of me said, 00:56:13.550 --> 00:56:17.829 Your Honor, that's not what he said. Ah! Okay? 00:56:18.050 --> 00:56:21.090 And I said, oh, thank you. Thank you, Jesus. 00:56:21.469 --> 00:56:26.090 He said, that's not what he said. And I resisted 00:56:26.090 --> 00:56:30.340 with all my might to say, Your Honor. you were 00:56:30.340 --> 00:56:33.199 eyewitness to what I said 20 seconds ago and 00:56:33.199 --> 00:56:37.500 got it wrong. Yes. But I resisted, but I was 00:56:37.500 --> 00:56:39.699 nonetheless on the street 20 minutes later. I 00:56:39.699 --> 00:56:41.119 think you should have said that just for his 00:56:41.119 --> 00:56:42.719 own edification. No, it was a she, by the way. 00:56:42.760 --> 00:56:45.219 She. Sorry, I'm sexist. You're totally sexist. 00:56:45.239 --> 00:56:46.900 What's wrong with me? We've all known that forever. 00:56:47.940 --> 00:56:52.059 Slap myself on the wrist. Right. So I'm just 00:56:52.059 --> 00:56:55.400 saying it's clear that the legal system. The 00:56:55.400 --> 00:56:58.400 precision of... Deeply flawed. It's deeply flawed. 00:56:58.579 --> 00:57:00.019 And they say, well, it's the best we have. Well, 00:57:00.039 --> 00:57:02.280 then fix it. Yeah. I mean, if that's how you 00:57:02.280 --> 00:57:03.719 were talking when they used to dunk people and 00:57:03.719 --> 00:57:06.900 if you died face up, you were innocent and died 00:57:06.900 --> 00:57:09.019 face down, you were guilty. That was the best 00:57:09.019 --> 00:57:11.360 they had then, but we improved on it. Right. 00:57:11.480 --> 00:57:14.360 If they drowned you, you weren't a witch. Congratulations, 00:57:14.420 --> 00:57:16.840 you weren't guilty. Well, it depends. Yeah. That's 00:57:16.840 --> 00:57:18.780 right. How you died. Yeah. And you'd otherwise 00:57:18.780 --> 00:57:26.710 go to heaven. Right. So... Plus there's, in Columbus's 00:57:26.710 --> 00:57:29.250 voyage, there's a lot. We talked about Columbus 00:57:29.250 --> 00:57:31.190 last time on the show. Oh, I talked about Columbus 00:57:31.190 --> 00:57:32.710 many times. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's horrific. 00:57:32.849 --> 00:57:37.130 So in one of the voyages, they went on some stretch 00:57:37.130 --> 00:57:40.309 of time and they didn't have food and they had 00:57:40.309 --> 00:57:44.659 Indians from their... that they brought on board 00:57:44.659 --> 00:57:47.500 as well as some of their own crew. And people 00:57:47.500 --> 00:57:50.559 were dying. And so at sea, what do you do with 00:57:50.559 --> 00:57:52.519 a dead body? You throw it overboard, of course. 00:57:52.599 --> 00:57:57.119 Okay. So a person who's keeping notes said all 00:57:57.119 --> 00:58:01.820 the Indians they threw overboard floated face 00:58:01.820 --> 00:58:04.480 down and all the Christians floated face up. 00:58:04.500 --> 00:58:09.329 Oh, Christ. That's it. Okay. Okay. I guess that 00:58:09.329 --> 00:58:13.550 could happen. Statistically, perhaps. I don't 00:58:13.550 --> 00:58:18.050 know. But now we have his handwritten notes in 00:58:18.050 --> 00:58:20.389 his testimony of something that is completely 00:58:20.389 --> 00:58:25.289 fulfilling his own worldview's expectations of 00:58:25.289 --> 00:58:29.650 how things should be. So in the whole sort of 00:58:29.650 --> 00:58:32.929 law and order chapter, I just pick all that apart 00:58:32.929 --> 00:58:36.480 and just try to say. You know, why not have jurors 00:58:36.480 --> 00:58:38.719 that are really good at data analysis? How about 00:58:38.719 --> 00:58:41.199 that? That would be nice, but that's really hard 00:58:41.199 --> 00:58:43.360 to find. And then on top of that, if you are 00:58:43.360 --> 00:58:45.420 dealing with eyewitness testimony, what do you 00:58:45.420 --> 00:58:48.039 do? Do you just throw everything out completely? 00:58:48.159 --> 00:58:51.039 Or do you try to assess whether or not that person 00:58:51.039 --> 00:58:53.099 is capable of objective thought and reasoning? 00:58:53.159 --> 00:58:55.980 No, you just, no. Because even people who are 00:58:55.980 --> 00:58:58.460 better at it are still flawed at it. Right. Especially 00:58:58.460 --> 00:59:01.300 under experiences. Under extreme duress? Stress 00:59:01.300 --> 00:59:03.579 experience. Yes. Correct. As they've done many 00:59:03.579 --> 00:59:05.920 times in psychology class. Yeah. They have, you 00:59:05.920 --> 00:59:08.679 know, the class is unfolding and they stage some 00:59:08.679 --> 00:59:11.280 violent thing with an explosion and then they 00:59:11.280 --> 00:59:13.659 say, write what you just saw. Right, right. And 00:59:13.659 --> 00:59:17.900 nothing agrees. Right, right. So, yeah, it's 00:59:17.900 --> 00:59:20.099 a challenge. Which is the problem of conspiracy 00:59:20.099 --> 00:59:23.059 theories after big events like 9 -11. Like all 00:59:23.059 --> 00:59:25.119 the people that say they saw this and they saw 00:59:25.119 --> 00:59:26.840 that and I remember this and I remember that. 00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:28.139 Correct. And you have these little sound bites 00:59:28.139 --> 00:59:29.699 of all these people and you piece them. together 00:59:29.699 --> 00:59:32.679 like oh my god they planted bombs and they're 00:59:32.679 --> 00:59:37.380 also there are people who say before before an 00:59:37.380 --> 00:59:41.139 earthquake they knew it was gonna they say they 00:59:41.139 --> 00:59:43.079 see all the animals running right and it's like 00:59:43.079 --> 00:59:45.860 okay you reported that after the earthquake happened 00:59:45.860 --> 00:59:48.239 not like before but doesn't that happen during 00:59:48.239 --> 00:59:52.139 tsunamis don't don't animals actually do go to 00:59:52.139 --> 00:59:54.480 higher ground I think that has actually been 00:59:54.480 --> 00:59:58.500 documented I Okay, so I'm highly suspicious of 00:59:58.500 --> 01:00:04.039 whether that's true because a tsunami, there's 01:00:04.039 --> 01:00:07.539 no way to know that. Tsunami typically occurs 01:00:07.539 --> 01:00:10.019 from an earthquake way offshore. Right. Okay, 01:00:10.099 --> 01:00:15.420 and it's a very low amplitude wave. in deep water 01:00:15.420 --> 01:00:18.539 that continues to gain amplitude as the water 01:00:18.539 --> 01:00:21.320 gets shallower and shallower. So that's why waves 01:00:21.320 --> 01:00:23.159 get bigger when they crash on the shores. So 01:00:23.159 --> 01:00:25.699 as it comes to the shore. So if you're just an 01:00:25.699 --> 01:00:29.340 animal in the woods, if you're not on the shoreline, 01:00:29.500 --> 01:00:32.440 there's no way to know that. I think they were 01:00:32.440 --> 01:00:35.280 talking about animals on islands and animals 01:00:35.280 --> 01:00:38.639 that do live closer to the shore. And maybe there's 01:00:38.639 --> 01:00:40.659 an indication because the water pulls back before 01:00:40.659 --> 01:00:43.119 a tsunami. Sure, I can recognize that. But if 01:00:43.119 --> 01:00:47.559 you're just an animal. somewhere onshore, away 01:00:47.559 --> 01:00:49.880 from the coast, I don't really see that. I need 01:00:49.880 --> 01:00:52.579 to see very good evidence for that and not just 01:00:52.579 --> 01:00:54.739 someone's account. Yeah, I don't know if they're 01:00:54.739 --> 01:00:56.280 talking about - This is my whole point. People 01:00:56.280 --> 01:00:58.820 have accounts of all kinds of things. Do you 01:00:58.820 --> 01:01:03.519 know, there's a whole other chapter called Risk 01:01:03.519 --> 01:01:07.139 and Reward. All right, here's something. Surely 01:01:07.139 --> 01:01:09.239 in your life, you have taken an average of numbers 01:01:09.239 --> 01:01:12.780 before. Okay. Tell me yes. Sure. Lie to me even 01:01:12.780 --> 01:01:15.219 if it's not true. I have, yeah. Okay. Do you 01:01:15.219 --> 01:01:19.760 realize that the first time anyone ever did that, 01:01:19.780 --> 01:01:22.679 to realize that maybe there's some interesting 01:01:22.679 --> 01:01:28.820 result here, was after the invention of algebra, 01:01:29.099 --> 01:01:34.219 trigonometry, geometry, and calculus. Really? 01:01:35.099 --> 01:01:38.840 Statistics is just something that the human brain, 01:01:39.119 --> 01:01:44.969 it's just not natural. It is completely foreign 01:01:44.969 --> 01:01:49.010 to us. We don't know how to interpret simple 01:01:49.010 --> 01:01:51.849 random events because we want to give meaning 01:01:51.849 --> 01:01:54.150 to them. You know the thing where you're in some 01:01:54.150 --> 01:01:56.889 other country in some other city and you meet 01:01:56.889 --> 01:01:59.050 someone like a childhood friend. Yeah. And you 01:01:59.050 --> 01:02:02.030 say, small world. Yeah. That's your first thought, 01:02:02.130 --> 01:02:05.369 right? Small world. Okay. Here's how to cure 01:02:05.369 --> 01:02:08.010 that. Okay. Next time you're in a foreign city. 01:02:08.840 --> 01:02:12.280 go up to every single person you walk by and 01:02:12.280 --> 01:02:15.380 say do I know you and They'll probably say no. 01:02:15.460 --> 01:02:17.099 I mean know you personally. They'll know you 01:02:17.099 --> 01:02:20.280 cuz you're dude, but they know you person. No, 01:02:20.340 --> 01:02:24.360 just keep doing this and If they say no, I don't 01:02:24.360 --> 01:02:29.059 know you then say big world Just do that You'll 01:02:29.059 --> 01:02:32.699 do that millions of times. Okay before you meet 01:02:32.699 --> 01:02:37.630 someone who you once knew And the proper statistics 01:02:37.630 --> 01:02:41.570 will then get recorded for that. So no, it's 01:02:41.570 --> 01:02:43.329 not a small world. It's a fucking big world. 01:02:43.769 --> 01:02:45.550 And there are a lot of people in it who you don't 01:02:45.550 --> 01:02:48.250 know. It's just very unusual when you meet someone 01:02:48.250 --> 01:02:50.489 in another country that you know from back home. 01:02:50.610 --> 01:02:53.730 Well, if you do the math, there are a lot of 01:02:53.730 --> 01:02:55.489 things that people say are unusual where it would 01:02:55.489 --> 01:03:00.309 be unusual if you didn't. Well, if you fly to 01:03:00.309 --> 01:03:03.130 England and you don't tell anybody you're flying 01:03:03.130 --> 01:03:05.130 to England and you run into a friend from back 01:03:05.130 --> 01:03:09.980 home, That's pretty unusual. Look how often people 01:03:09.980 --> 01:03:13.260 say that it happens. Well, we live in a strange 01:03:13.260 --> 01:03:15.019 world now. That's precisely my point. Right. 01:03:15.179 --> 01:03:19.159 Okay. Everybody you know has that story. If you 01:03:19.159 --> 01:03:22.719 run the statistics on it, it would be odd if 01:03:22.719 --> 01:03:24.880 you went your life. Presumably you have a normal 01:03:24.880 --> 01:03:26.659 life and you know people and your school was 01:03:26.659 --> 01:03:29.019 big and all of this. Okay. You didn't grow up 01:03:29.019 --> 01:03:32.070 in a. farm with, you know, with, with nobody, 01:03:32.289 --> 01:03:35.050 we didn't know anybody. It requires some basic 01:03:35.050 --> 01:03:37.730 number of people. So there's a lot of errors 01:03:37.730 --> 01:03:41.530 of statistics that we make of probability and 01:03:41.530 --> 01:03:46.190 statistics. The sad part of it is there's an 01:03:46.190 --> 01:03:50.650 entire industry that has risen to exploit that 01:03:50.650 --> 01:03:53.570 fact. And they're called casinos. The fact that 01:03:53.570 --> 01:03:55.690 you could go to a roulette table and somebody's 01:03:55.690 --> 01:03:57.150 got a lot of money on seven. I said, why do you 01:03:57.150 --> 01:03:59.809 have money on seven? It's due. What do you mean 01:03:59.809 --> 01:04:01.630 it's due? Well, look at the previous rolls because 01:04:01.630 --> 01:04:03.989 they'll show you the previous rolls and seven 01:04:03.989 --> 01:04:06.510 hasn't appeared in 20 rolls or whatever the numbers 01:04:06.510 --> 01:04:10.389 they put. So it's due. No, it's not due. This 01:04:10.389 --> 01:04:13.150 is a failure of the human brain to understand 01:04:13.150 --> 01:04:15.969 and interpret probability and statistics. There 01:04:15.969 --> 01:04:18.550 are people who are going to roll dice. Okay. 01:04:18.610 --> 01:04:20.989 If they need a low number, they'll take the dice 01:04:20.989 --> 01:04:23.360 and like. Gently roll them. If they need a high 01:04:23.360 --> 01:04:26.219 number, they'll throw them hard. This is crazy. 01:04:27.719 --> 01:04:31.869 But those people are suckers. There's other people 01:04:31.869 --> 01:04:34.570 that do understand statistics and they kick them 01:04:34.570 --> 01:04:36.610 out of casinos because they count cards. Only 01:04:36.610 --> 01:04:39.909 for those that are not purely random like a roulette 01:04:39.909 --> 01:04:43.489 table or dice. Right. You think things like blackjack. 01:04:43.690 --> 01:04:46.389 Correct. You can tilt the odds in your favor 01:04:46.389 --> 01:04:48.809 a little bit and be systematic about it. But 01:04:48.809 --> 01:04:51.550 I'm talking about pure probabilities. The fact 01:04:51.550 --> 01:04:54.909 that someone thinks that a number is due. Right. 01:04:55.389 --> 01:04:58.090 is itself. Do you realize the American Physical 01:04:58.090 --> 01:05:01.030 Society? These are my physics peeps. That's our 01:05:01.030 --> 01:05:04.809 physics society. 1986, they were going to have 01:05:04.809 --> 01:05:07.110 their annual meeting in San Diego and there was 01:05:07.110 --> 01:05:10.190 a hotel snafu. So they had to reschedule. And 01:05:10.190 --> 01:05:13.489 so Vegas said, we'll take you. The MGM Marina, 01:05:13.690 --> 01:05:15.989 which became the MGM Grand, we'll take you. 4 01:05:15.989 --> 01:05:20.369 ,000 physicists said, okay. 4 ,000 physicists 01:05:20.369 --> 01:05:24.219 had their... Annual meeting in Las Vegas. And 01:05:24.219 --> 01:05:29.639 let me tell you, okay, K through 12, is there 01:05:29.639 --> 01:05:32.340 even a course offered in probability and statistics? 01:05:32.699 --> 01:05:36.219 You learn reading, writing, and arithmetic, not 01:05:36.219 --> 01:05:38.500 reading, writing, and probability and statistics, 01:05:38.699 --> 01:05:41.400 right? It's kind of not there. And if it's there, 01:05:41.480 --> 01:05:46.380 it's an elective, okay? So as a scientist, especially 01:05:46.380 --> 01:05:49.619 as a physical scientist, I take some form of 01:05:49.619 --> 01:05:52.360 probability and statistics. Every single year 01:05:52.360 --> 01:05:55.980 I am in school. Different nuances and how data 01:05:55.980 --> 01:05:58.380 can be looked at and analyzed and put together 01:05:58.380 --> 01:06:01.079 and averaged. The average that I told you about, 01:06:01.159 --> 01:06:03.300 you add numbers, divide by that. That's one of 01:06:03.300 --> 01:06:05.539 a dozen kind of ways you can average numbers. 01:06:05.840 --> 01:06:08.139 There are other ways. You can have a statistically 01:06:08.139 --> 01:06:10.559 weighted average. It depends on the needs. Depends 01:06:10.559 --> 01:06:13.019 on the situation. Point is, the physicists came 01:06:13.019 --> 01:06:16.599 to Vegas. One week later, there was a news headline. 01:06:18.019 --> 01:06:21.559 Physicists in town. lowest casino take ever. 01:06:23.739 --> 01:06:27.820 We're told to never return to Vegas. Really? 01:06:28.059 --> 01:06:30.159 Yes. They were told to never return? They were 01:06:30.159 --> 01:06:31.659 told. Well, that might be apocryphal, but it 01:06:31.659 --> 01:06:35.519 was in the headline. Really? Yeah. That's funny. 01:06:35.519 --> 01:06:37.420 So these are people, these are my peeps, this 01:06:37.420 --> 01:06:39.519 is what we do. A little too smart. We think about, 01:06:39.739 --> 01:06:44.780 it's not because we took advantage of the blackjack 01:06:44.780 --> 01:06:47.179 table, it's because they just simply didn't gamble. 01:06:47.519 --> 01:06:49.940 Well, I'm the same way. I don't gamble either. 01:06:50.179 --> 01:06:52.519 I look how big the place is. I'm like, how is 01:06:52.519 --> 01:06:54.500 this made? By selling tickets to the buffet? 01:06:55.039 --> 01:06:58.579 I don't think so. I don't think so. No, this 01:06:58.579 --> 01:07:01.300 is made from suckers. Not. Me and my wife went 01:07:01.300 --> 01:07:04.780 a few months ago. Let's say you're winning in 01:07:04.780 --> 01:07:07.639 something. You're in the one -armed bandit and 01:07:07.639 --> 01:07:11.440 you had a jackpot. What do they do with you at 01:07:11.440 --> 01:07:13.710 that point? They see this is happening. What 01:07:13.710 --> 01:07:15.630 does the house do? They check the machine. No, 01:07:15.670 --> 01:07:17.730 no, no. They check you. They give you free drinks. 01:07:17.809 --> 01:07:20.670 They give you free drinks. Yeah. They got a comely 01:07:20.670 --> 01:07:23.429 server to come over to you and say, would you 01:07:23.429 --> 01:07:26.369 like a free cocktail? Yes. To stir chemicals 01:07:26.369 --> 01:07:30.650 into your brain to disrupt the little bit of 01:07:30.650 --> 01:07:32.690 objective reality that you're experiencing. Release 01:07:32.690 --> 01:07:35.230 your inhibitions. You're feeling lucky. Are you 01:07:35.230 --> 01:07:37.550 feeling lucky, Neil? You're feeling lucky. Yeah. 01:07:37.849 --> 01:07:40.570 I don't feel lucky at all at casinos. I feel 01:07:40.570 --> 01:07:43.730 stupid. Oh, and another thing with the... State 01:07:43.730 --> 01:07:49.849 lotteries? This is all in the risk and reward 01:07:49.849 --> 01:07:52.369 chapter. State lotteries? Do you know what most 01:07:52.369 --> 01:07:53.909 of the revenue, you know, it's the state money 01:07:53.909 --> 01:07:56.510 that goes into the coffers, tax coffers. Do you 01:07:56.510 --> 01:07:57.909 know where most of that money is allocated in 01:07:57.909 --> 01:08:00.610 most states? No. It goes to education. Oh, that's 01:08:00.610 --> 01:08:01.909 good. You didn't know that? No, that's great. 01:08:02.130 --> 01:08:04.489 So that makes you feel a little better like you're 01:08:04.489 --> 01:08:06.610 helping out your own state when you buy your 01:08:06.610 --> 01:08:10.070 state lottery. Here's the thing. Part of me wonders. 01:08:10.309 --> 01:08:12.889 Okay. Let me join you in a conspiracy thing here. 01:08:13.130 --> 01:08:17.770 Okay. Okay. It's my conspiracy. Okay. Am I allowed? 01:08:18.029 --> 01:08:20.590 Yes, please. Am I allowed one per year? I'll 01:08:20.590 --> 01:08:22.770 give you all the ones you want. I love a good 01:08:22.770 --> 01:08:25.829 conspiracy. The conspiracy is they have to make 01:08:25.829 --> 01:08:29.390 sure that the school curriculum does not teach 01:08:29.390 --> 01:08:33.119 probability and statistics. What? What? Because 01:08:33.119 --> 01:08:34.640 if they did - Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait 01:08:34.640 --> 01:08:36.460 a minute. If they did, then no one would play 01:08:36.460 --> 01:08:40.119 the lottery. So they allocate money to education 01:08:40.119 --> 01:08:42.100 with a specific mandate that you can't - No, 01:08:42.100 --> 01:08:46.279 I'm not saying that. What are you saying? Yes, 01:08:46.300 --> 01:08:51.319 I'm saying that. Jamie's saying no, no, no. It's 01:08:51.319 --> 01:08:55.380 not like a law. No, no, no. No, I'm just saying 01:08:55.380 --> 01:09:01.199 it's a little suspicious. That the very knowledge 01:09:01.199 --> 01:09:05.279 of math that would undermine the ability of the 01:09:05.279 --> 01:09:10.220 state lottery to make money is not a required 01:09:10.220 --> 01:09:13.260 part of the math curriculum in kindergarten through 01:09:13.260 --> 01:09:16.420 12. So you think – but you don't think that's 01:09:16.420 --> 01:09:19.460 why. I'm just playing with the – no, I don't 01:09:19.460 --> 01:09:23.579 really think that's why. Right. Okay, so I see 01:09:23.579 --> 01:09:25.319 what you were doing there. You were assuming 01:09:25.319 --> 01:09:28.520 that I was totally in on this conspiracy theory 01:09:28.520 --> 01:09:31.640 and I have charts on my wall and websites devoted 01:09:31.640 --> 01:09:34.720 to it. No, it just crossed my mind how odd it 01:09:34.720 --> 01:09:38.119 is that when you know enough about probability, 01:09:38.260 --> 01:09:43.039 you bet less. And when you bet less, the revenue 01:09:43.039 --> 01:09:44.960 to the state would drop and that's the revenue 01:09:44.960 --> 01:09:48.880 that would go to education. So it has the power. 01:09:49.500 --> 01:09:54.380 to plant the seeds of its own undoing. And it 01:09:54.380 --> 01:09:57.079 doesn't do that. I'm intrigued by that fact. 01:09:57.260 --> 01:09:59.859 Just removing ourselves from the conspiracy theory 01:09:59.859 --> 01:10:02.340 aspect of it, do you think that it would be beneficial 01:10:02.340 --> 01:10:04.979 to teach probability and statistics to people? 01:10:05.140 --> 01:10:09.119 Oh my gosh! Look at how many bad decisions we 01:10:09.119 --> 01:10:12.079 make because we think we have an understanding 01:10:12.079 --> 01:10:17.840 of what is random and what is not. There's the 01:10:17.840 --> 01:10:21.420 one, they did this, but actually their analysis 01:10:21.420 --> 01:10:27.119 was flawed, but the basis was well placed. So 01:10:27.119 --> 01:10:29.479 the idea, you're playing a basketball game, and 01:10:29.479 --> 01:10:31.619 somebody hits a few shots in a row, they've got 01:10:31.619 --> 01:10:34.119 a hot hand, give it to them. They don't have 01:10:34.119 --> 01:10:39.500 a hot hand. It is the natural consequence. If 01:10:39.500 --> 01:10:43.479 you're shooting 50 % in a game, or 40%, and you 01:10:43.479 --> 01:10:45.659 take, I don't know how many shots, you take 30 01:10:45.659 --> 01:10:50.520 shots, You can look at the probability that you'll 01:10:50.520 --> 01:10:54.000 have multiple shots in a row that are made. And 01:10:54.000 --> 01:10:57.079 it's very high and it's very real. So it's not 01:10:57.079 --> 01:11:00.060 something special happening. It is the randomness 01:11:00.060 --> 01:11:02.199 of the statistics that's happening. Okay, but 01:11:02.199 --> 01:11:04.039 this is talking about statistics, but from an 01:11:04.039 --> 01:11:07.680 individual basis. Do you discount the idea that 01:11:07.680 --> 01:11:10.819 sometimes people feel really good and they have 01:11:10.819 --> 01:11:13.100 a very good sense of where the ball's going, 01:11:13.340 --> 01:11:16.560 where they're more loose or relaxed or more practiced, 01:11:17.079 --> 01:11:19.779 whatever it may be, and they're more accurate 01:11:19.779 --> 01:11:23.479 because of that? If that's the case, no, so people 01:11:23.479 --> 01:11:27.840 have good days, right? Right. Clearly. So this 01:11:27.840 --> 01:11:30.520 is why that original analysis was slightly flawed. 01:11:30.720 --> 01:11:34.020 Because a person can have more than what is typical 01:11:34.020 --> 01:11:37.140 shots in a row. Right. Okay? And for that game, 01:11:37.340 --> 01:11:39.500 you could look at their data, and they would 01:11:39.500 --> 01:11:42.260 make 60 % of the shots instead of 40 % of the 01:11:42.260 --> 01:11:44.939 shots. And if you make 60 % of the shots, you 01:11:44.939 --> 01:11:47.899 then expect three in a row here, six in a row 01:11:47.899 --> 01:11:53.460 there, five in a row here. In the random expression 01:11:53.460 --> 01:11:58.539 of having a 60 % success rate in a basket, you 01:11:58.539 --> 01:12:02.319 expect intervals where you make multiple shots 01:12:02.319 --> 01:12:04.479 in a row. That's my only point. And that could 01:12:04.479 --> 01:12:06.000 be a good day for you because you're shooting 01:12:06.000 --> 01:12:09.279 60%. Right. And I want to recognize that. I'm 01:12:09.279 --> 01:12:10.739 going to hand you the ball if you're having a 01:12:10.739 --> 01:12:13.640 good day. You can totally have a good day. But 01:12:13.640 --> 01:12:17.199 at the end of the day, you're not sinking. 20 01:12:17.199 --> 01:12:21.939 here and none before it. No. The statistics maintain 01:12:21.939 --> 01:12:23.720 themselves in the game, unless you get injured 01:12:23.720 --> 01:12:26.319 or something, of course. So, but my point is, 01:12:26.439 --> 01:12:29.800 we have such, and I don't want to blame people 01:12:29.800 --> 01:12:32.899 for this. If it was natural to think statistically 01:12:32.899 --> 01:12:34.619 about the world, it would have been the first 01:12:34.619 --> 01:12:36.760 branches of math we would have ever discovered. 01:12:37.300 --> 01:12:40.859 But it wasn't. It was like 1753. Sounds like 01:12:40.859 --> 01:12:43.939 a long time ago, but it's 50 years after calculus 01:12:43.939 --> 01:12:47.319 was invented. After calculus, which is not even 01:12:47.319 --> 01:12:48.960 taught in school. Not long ago at all, really. 01:12:49.180 --> 01:12:52.159 Okay, correct. There's a simple paper on the 01:12:52.159 --> 01:12:54.859 benefits of taking the mean, mean is average, 01:12:55.079 --> 01:12:59.960 of observations in astronomical data. This is 01:12:59.960 --> 01:13:02.420 what an astronomer did it. First to take a mean. 01:13:03.079 --> 01:13:07.960 And this is just, so that tells me we are victims 01:13:07.960 --> 01:13:12.380 of our own brain wiring. And so – and it takes 01:13:12.380 --> 01:13:15.260 many years to undo that wiring or to see through 01:13:15.260 --> 01:13:20.500 it so that you are not – and it prevents you 01:13:20.500 --> 01:13:24.300 from seeing other things, OK? How so? Do you 01:13:24.300 --> 01:13:29.600 realize last year we lost as many people in the 01:13:29.600 --> 01:13:33.199 United States to traffic accidents as we did 01:13:33.199 --> 01:13:37.680 in all the years we fought in Vietnam? Look at 01:13:37.680 --> 01:13:40.949 the effort we – put up as a country beginning 01:13:40.949 --> 01:13:46.149 maybe 1967, certainly 68, to stop the carnage? 01:13:46.789 --> 01:13:48.930 And that's just the American deaths, not to mention 01:13:48.930 --> 01:13:50.750 the millions of deaths of the Vietnamese themselves, 01:13:51.050 --> 01:13:56.149 North and South. Point is, our reactions to statistics 01:13:56.149 --> 01:14:00.590 are very different depending on what caused it. 01:14:00.750 --> 01:14:03.470 And I'm intrigued by that. I don't have a good 01:14:03.470 --> 01:14:08.789 understanding of it. Any laws that treat it? 01:14:09.000 --> 01:14:11.079 are going to have to fold in people's emotions. 01:14:11.359 --> 01:14:15.039 Here's an example. You shoot deer with your bow 01:14:15.039 --> 01:14:19.640 and arrow. There's a certain number of deer deaths 01:14:19.640 --> 01:14:22.600 and human deaths by cars hitting deer in the 01:14:22.600 --> 01:14:27.260 roads, especially in suburban, rural places, 01:14:27.539 --> 01:14:30.699 okay? What do you do about this? What are you 01:14:30.699 --> 01:14:32.739 going to do? Get a truck with a big -ass bumper. 01:14:35.360 --> 01:14:37.239 That's what they do out here. The Joe Rogan solution. 01:14:37.420 --> 01:14:39.819 That's the Texas solution. You ever see those 01:14:39.819 --> 01:14:42.000 guys that work on ranchers? Make sure your truck 01:14:42.000 --> 01:14:45.060 has significantly more mass than the deer. No, 01:14:45.060 --> 01:14:48.659 they have specific bumpers that they build to 01:14:48.659 --> 01:14:52.020 save people's lives. Right. And, of course, this 01:14:52.020 --> 01:14:54.920 is what the old locomotives had if there were 01:14:54.920 --> 01:14:57.239 cattle on the – you ever see that pointy front 01:14:57.239 --> 01:14:58.739 on locomotives? Yes, exactly. Yeah, that was 01:14:58.739 --> 01:15:01.000 the pride catalog. Yes. So it wouldn't roll over 01:15:01.000 --> 01:15:05.659 the cow and derail the thing. So what do you 01:15:05.659 --> 01:15:10.119 do? Do you accept the 100 deaths a year in your 01:15:10.119 --> 01:15:12.779 county? Whatever. Human deaths. No one's counting 01:15:12.779 --> 01:15:15.840 deer deaths here, right? Or do you find something? 01:15:15.920 --> 01:15:17.220 Get yourself a big -ass bumper. Oh, there you 01:15:17.220 --> 01:15:19.279 go. Big -ass bumper. Deer killer bumpers. Look 01:15:19.279 --> 01:15:21.760 at those suckers. I like the Ford F -250 right 01:15:21.760 --> 01:15:23.770 there. That's what I'm saying. Look at that one, 01:15:23.909 --> 01:15:26.229 the Ford F -250, that red one. That's what I'm 01:15:26.229 --> 01:15:28.390 talking about. The problem is if the center of 01:15:28.390 --> 01:15:32.010 mass of the deer is above the level of that bumper. 01:15:32.210 --> 01:15:34.829 But it's not. Well, for elk it would be. For 01:15:34.829 --> 01:15:36.970 moose it would be. My wife grew up in Alaska. 01:15:37.649 --> 01:15:42.250 No. Yes. No, not a 250. F -250? Center of mass 01:15:42.250 --> 01:15:45.640 of an elk? A moose. A moose, yes. I'm sorry, 01:15:45.699 --> 01:15:47.100 a moose. A moose is a different thing, yeah. 01:15:47.140 --> 01:15:49.920 I saw a moose. Oh, boy. My wife grew up in Alaska. 01:15:49.920 --> 01:15:51.140 When you see them for the first time, you're 01:15:51.140 --> 01:15:52.619 like, how is that real? What the hell is that? 01:15:53.060 --> 01:15:55.460 What? The first time I saw a moose - How did 01:15:55.460 --> 01:15:57.920 that happen? I was in British Columbia, and I 01:15:57.920 --> 01:15:59.960 saw it. It was like the scene in Jurassic Park 01:15:59.960 --> 01:16:02.380 where Jeff Goldblum gets out of the Jeep, and 01:16:02.380 --> 01:16:06.300 he's like - Yeah. It's like, who invented that? 01:16:06.439 --> 01:16:07.880 Right, right. Look at the size of that thing. 01:16:07.880 --> 01:16:09.119 Right, so if you're under the center of mass, 01:16:09.260 --> 01:16:11.159 then it will just roll up and crush your windshield. 01:16:11.220 --> 01:16:12.399 Yes. So you have to watch out for that. It will 01:16:12.399 --> 01:16:14.319 go through your windshield. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:16:14.359 --> 01:16:18.020 It's horrific. So here's my point. There is a 01:16:18.020 --> 01:16:19.800 group, I forgot where, somewhere in New England, 01:16:19.880 --> 01:16:24.680 who did a study. And the study was, if you have 01:16:24.680 --> 01:16:27.220 100 deaths a year, we can drop that to maybe 01:16:27.220 --> 01:16:32.640 30 deaths a year. How? By introducing... the 01:16:32.640 --> 01:16:38.060 natural cat predator to the deer so it would 01:16:38.060 --> 01:16:40.340 be like the puma or bobcat one of these sort 01:16:40.340 --> 01:16:43.100 of mid -sized cats that hold the deer as their 01:16:43.100 --> 01:16:48.479 quarry okay and they ran some models of how this 01:16:48.479 --> 01:16:51.779 would go and you could drop the number of human 01:16:51.779 --> 01:16:56.659 deaths by a factor of three okay uh because still 01:16:56.659 --> 01:17:01.850 some deer would wander onto the road but You'll 01:17:01.850 --> 01:17:06.689 lose about 10 children a year Yeah They'll just 01:17:06.689 --> 01:17:10.010 snatch your kid out of the backyard and eat your 01:17:10.010 --> 01:17:13.250 child So look at these numbers you killed a hundred 01:17:13.250 --> 01:17:18.149 people in their cars or or the deer kill 30 people 01:17:18.149 --> 01:17:23.109 plus 10 children No, no. The deer killed 30 people. 01:17:23.189 --> 01:17:25.869 The bobcat kills 10. And the bobcat might kill 01:17:25.869 --> 01:17:28.090 an adult. Not bobcat, but whatever is the next 01:17:28.090 --> 01:17:30.909 mountain lion. Or whatever was native in the 01:17:30.909 --> 01:17:34.289 region long ago. Okay? And so they did a study. 01:17:34.670 --> 01:17:38.770 And the point is, you could not bring that suggestion 01:17:38.770 --> 01:17:42.729 forward. Right. Because the government would 01:17:42.729 --> 01:17:45.069 be introducing an animal that killed your children. 01:17:46.240 --> 01:17:48.619 But no one's looking at the hundred people that 01:17:48.619 --> 01:17:50.640 were, whatever the numbers were, it was a factor 01:17:50.640 --> 01:17:52.760 of three or so. Do you know there's another solution? 01:17:52.779 --> 01:17:54.619 The correct numbers are in the book. No, I'm 01:17:54.619 --> 01:17:56.560 just giving this as an example. I understand. 01:17:58.300 --> 01:18:03.939 We're not equipped to fold our emotions with 01:18:03.939 --> 01:18:09.420 the data to arrive at a solution that would save 01:18:09.420 --> 01:18:12.300 the most lives. I see what you're saying. There 01:18:12.300 --> 01:18:14.100 is a technological solution that they've come 01:18:14.100 --> 01:18:17.810 up with. a device that they put at the front 01:18:17.810 --> 01:18:21.069 of the car that makes a very certain sound that 01:18:21.069 --> 01:18:23.170 alerts deer to the presence. I've heard about 01:18:23.170 --> 01:18:24.970 that. It's right on the edges of the... I've 01:18:24.970 --> 01:18:26.909 heard about that, but I haven't... I read about 01:18:26.909 --> 01:18:29.270 it, like, 20 years ago, so I haven't heard much 01:18:29.270 --> 01:18:30.930 about it since. I don't know how effective it 01:18:30.930 --> 01:18:33.250 is. It runs... The air going through it makes 01:18:33.250 --> 01:18:35.369 a kind of a siren effect. Is that what it is? 01:18:35.369 --> 01:18:37.689 Yeah, when I last remembered it. Yeah, well, 01:18:37.729 --> 01:18:39.930 whatever it is, it develops some sort of a sound 01:18:39.930 --> 01:18:42.869 that the deer can hear, and they avoid it, but... 01:18:43.449 --> 01:18:45.750 They have a problem with headlights. I was in 01:18:45.750 --> 01:18:52.890 Alaska, and there was a deer and a grizzly bear. 01:18:53.170 --> 01:18:57.010 Must have been 300 yards away. Way down in the 01:18:57.010 --> 01:19:00.529 valley. And the deer noticed it. And it was eating, 01:19:00.609 --> 01:19:02.890 but it was eating very cautiously, always looking 01:19:02.890 --> 01:19:07.189 to the bear. And I'm saying, if it could notice 01:19:07.189 --> 01:19:12.090 a bear 300 yards and be cautious of it. Why can't 01:19:12.090 --> 01:19:14.710 it know a Ford 250 barreling down a road? Because 01:19:14.710 --> 01:19:18.270 it's not natural. Figure it out. It's a mammal. 01:19:18.329 --> 01:19:20.409 It's got a brain. That takes forever. Let me 01:19:20.409 --> 01:19:23.720 get angry with the deer for a second. And how 01:19:23.720 --> 01:19:26.060 come we haven't killed all the stupid deer by 01:19:26.060 --> 01:19:28.060 now, so the ones that are left are the ones that 01:19:28.060 --> 01:19:30.439 recognize that cars kill them? Because they're 01:19:30.439 --> 01:19:33.060 all stupid. They just have really good senses. 01:19:33.340 --> 01:19:36.600 They have senses that are designed to avoid predation. 01:19:36.640 --> 01:19:40.340 But they're living with us now. But how long 01:19:40.340 --> 01:19:41.539 have they had headlights? Mice and rats figured 01:19:41.539 --> 01:19:44.039 out how to coexist with humans. Rats are very 01:19:44.039 --> 01:19:46.819 intelligent. They figured this out. Yeah, but 01:19:46.819 --> 01:19:49.260 deer don't know what to do with headlights and 01:19:49.260 --> 01:19:51.720 cars. It's a completely unnatural thing. So everyone 01:19:51.720 --> 01:19:53.890 that doesn't, they... die, and the ones that 01:19:53.890 --> 01:19:55.930 have a little bit of genetic variation that figures 01:19:55.930 --> 01:19:58.810 it out, they'll survive. Sort of, because then 01:19:58.810 --> 01:20:02.090 they get horny. The problem with deers, if you 01:20:02.090 --> 01:20:02.869 look at the number of deaths - Sorry, I don't 01:20:02.869 --> 01:20:04.810 know anything about the sex life of deer. I do. 01:20:04.989 --> 01:20:06.710 Okay. One of the things that happens - Don't 01:20:06.710 --> 01:20:08.869 tell me how you know. The uptick. Well, the rut. 01:20:09.449 --> 01:20:12.409 When deer rut is when you hunt them, and one 01:20:12.409 --> 01:20:14.130 of the things that happens during the rut is 01:20:14.130 --> 01:20:16.390 they get ridiculous, and they just run out into 01:20:16.390 --> 01:20:18.109 traffic. They can't even control themselves. 01:20:18.149 --> 01:20:20.489 They chase does into the street. That's oftentimes 01:20:20.489 --> 01:20:22.369 does. The male deer chase the female deer. Because 01:20:22.369 --> 01:20:23.829 they're just chasing them. The females are just 01:20:23.829 --> 01:20:25.810 trying to get away, and they just run out into 01:20:25.810 --> 01:20:28.010 traffic. That happens. Or the male is trying 01:20:28.010 --> 01:20:30.170 to chase the female, and all he's got on his 01:20:30.170 --> 01:20:32.329 mind is he's got tunnel vision, and they just, 01:20:32.390 --> 01:20:35.930 boom, gets hit by that F -250. Speaking of deer, 01:20:36.609 --> 01:20:39.960 by the way, my sister drives an F -250. Or is 01:20:39.960 --> 01:20:42.039 it a 450? Is there a 450? No, she does a 350. 01:20:42.260 --> 01:20:44.460 Excuse me. Oh, she has a dually? Yeah, she's 01:20:44.460 --> 01:20:47.600 got one where the tires can do separate things. 01:20:47.720 --> 01:20:52.319 Oh, okay. Yeah. Oh, she's serious. Don't mess 01:20:52.319 --> 01:20:54.020 with my sister. Okay. Is your sister out there 01:20:54.020 --> 01:20:56.819 off -roading? What is she doing with that crazy 01:20:56.819 --> 01:20:59.659 truck? She just likes being badass when the time 01:20:59.659 --> 01:21:04.039 comes. I like the way she thinks. But she doesn't 01:21:04.039 --> 01:21:06.779 hunt, so it's missing half the equation there. 01:21:06.939 --> 01:21:10.489 So on the subject of deer. in the chapter on 01:21:10.489 --> 01:21:14.890 gender and identity. So I go there, gender and 01:21:14.890 --> 01:21:16.970 identity, because it's a very hot topic. And 01:21:16.970 --> 01:21:20.029 I just apply some rational thinking to it. Do 01:21:20.029 --> 01:21:22.069 you know about Santa's reindeer? Do you know 01:21:22.069 --> 01:21:24.369 about them? Sure, I know very much about them. 01:21:24.409 --> 01:21:28.010 Oh, you do? Yeah. Okay, so do you know that - 01:21:28.010 --> 01:21:31.449 A caribou. Yes, a caribou, correct. And, well, 01:21:31.529 --> 01:21:34.270 you can domesticate the caribou. And when you 01:21:34.270 --> 01:21:40.090 do, then both the - the boys and the girls have 01:21:40.090 --> 01:21:42.989 antlers. Okay? Well, that's just the fact of 01:21:42.989 --> 01:21:45.149 all caribou. Oh, all caribou. Excuse me. But 01:21:45.149 --> 01:21:46.529 sorry, the domesticated ones are called reindeer, 01:21:46.710 --> 01:21:49.029 but they're derived from the caribou. Correct. 01:21:49.130 --> 01:21:52.850 So now watch what happens. So, as you may know, 01:21:53.090 --> 01:22:00.270 the male deer lose their antlers in late October, 01:22:00.470 --> 01:22:04.350 early November. Depending upon where they're 01:22:04.350 --> 01:22:06.529 at. Unless you castrate them. You castrate them, 01:22:06.569 --> 01:22:08.130 they'll keep their antlers. But otherwise, they 01:22:08.130 --> 01:22:11.569 drop their antlers. Right. Before winter begins. 01:22:12.550 --> 01:22:15.949 Generally not. No. Well, it depends on the animal. 01:22:16.149 --> 01:22:18.890 But a lot of them keep it until almost spring. 01:22:19.029 --> 01:22:21.130 And then they drop and they grow back very quickly. 01:22:21.130 --> 01:22:24.170 That's nothing of what I've read or learned. 01:22:24.569 --> 01:22:27.510 Of this animal. Or just caribou? No, caribou 01:22:27.510 --> 01:22:30.289 specifically. Okay. The ones that became Santa's 01:22:30.289 --> 01:22:32.449 reindeer. We're not talking about the deer in 01:22:32.449 --> 01:22:35.609 Central Texas. No. They dropped them in the winter. 01:22:35.829 --> 01:22:40.350 They dropped them November. Okay. The female 01:22:40.350 --> 01:22:43.130 don't. The female don't. So all that means is 01:22:43.130 --> 01:22:50.449 all eight of Santa's reindeer are female, which 01:22:50.449 --> 01:22:53.729 means Rudolph has been misgendered. Interesting. 01:22:54.700 --> 01:22:57.460 Well, do you know where the myth of Santa's reindeer 01:22:57.460 --> 01:22:59.720 flying comes from? I think it's from mushrooms, 01:22:59.880 --> 01:23:01.920 isn't it? Yeah, Amanita muscaria mushroom, which 01:23:01.920 --> 01:23:04.489 looks like Santa Claus. Yeah. That's it. With 01:23:04.489 --> 01:23:06.829 the red and white dots. And they love those things. 01:23:06.869 --> 01:23:08.869 They love the Amanita muscaria mushroom to the 01:23:08.869 --> 01:23:12.470 point where when people are doing mushroom ceremonies 01:23:12.470 --> 01:23:15.729 and they go outside to urinate, caribou will 01:23:15.729 --> 01:23:19.310 knock you over to get to your urine. Yeah. If 01:23:19.310 --> 01:23:21.489 you have domesticated caribou, they will knock 01:23:21.489 --> 01:23:24.229 you over to get to the urine because they smell 01:23:24.229 --> 01:23:28.289 the Amanita muscaria and whatever. It's not psilocybin. 01:23:28.289 --> 01:23:31.369 It has to be such a major. I'm trying to imagine. 01:23:32.029 --> 01:23:35.449 how high I want to get to drink someone else's 01:23:35.449 --> 01:23:39.109 pee. Well, caribou are not that wise, nor are 01:23:39.109 --> 01:23:42.029 they educated, nor do they even understand the 01:23:42.029 --> 01:23:45.670 concept of urine. Whatever the psychoactive compound, 01:23:46.170 --> 01:23:49.189 well, their sense of smell is preposterously 01:23:49.189 --> 01:23:53.170 intense. I mean, we can't even imagine what a 01:23:53.170 --> 01:23:55.149 deer can smell. They can smell you hundreds of 01:23:55.149 --> 01:23:58.010 yards away. I mean, I've seen deer go like this. 01:23:58.560 --> 01:24:01.159 A hundred yards away. And then they bolt because 01:24:01.159 --> 01:24:03.079 they smell you. They catch your wind. Yeah, they're 01:24:03.079 --> 01:24:05.180 amazing. Here's a mystery that I've always had 01:24:05.180 --> 01:24:09.020 to this day. Because dogs have very acute sense 01:24:09.020 --> 01:24:11.680 of smell as well. Yeah. That's how you say that. 01:24:11.720 --> 01:24:14.720 If you just say dogs smell good, you don't know 01:24:14.720 --> 01:24:16.880 what that means, right? Do they smell better 01:24:16.880 --> 01:24:19.779 than we do? Right. It's an ambiguous sentence. 01:24:19.960 --> 01:24:22.000 Right. So they have an acute sense of smell. 01:24:22.399 --> 01:24:28.029 So if they smell so acutely, why do they? get 01:24:28.029 --> 01:24:29.930 within like a half inch of each other's butt. 01:24:30.149 --> 01:24:32.430 Because they want to smell each other. But you 01:24:32.430 --> 01:24:34.529 could smell that 100 yards away. Yeah, but they 01:24:34.529 --> 01:24:36.050 want to smell everything. They want to smell 01:24:36.050 --> 01:24:39.529 the hormones. Yeah, well, they're intensely attracted. 01:24:39.529 --> 01:24:42.630 Okay, so it's so good. Yeah. Let me get up on 01:24:42.630 --> 01:24:45.789 it. Yeah, they want to know if you're feeling 01:24:45.789 --> 01:24:48.989 aggressive. Okay. If you're in heat. They want 01:24:48.989 --> 01:24:51.050 to know all those things. Yeah, I just, I never. 01:24:51.860 --> 01:24:52.779 Fascinating animals. Had that urge to do that 01:24:52.779 --> 01:24:54.720 with other humans. You know, a bear could smell 01:24:54.720 --> 01:24:56.880 somewhere in the neighborhood of nine times greater 01:24:56.880 --> 01:24:59.840 than a bloodhound. So we should domesticate bears 01:24:59.840 --> 01:25:05.699 and track down. Good luck with that. By the way, 01:25:05.699 --> 01:25:08.520 have you seen a bear? You got to be able to find 01:25:08.520 --> 01:25:11.520 this. I saw it on social media. There's a bear 01:25:11.520 --> 01:25:14.079 walking down a highway and there's a tipped over 01:25:14.079 --> 01:25:17.260 traffic cone and it looks at it and then writes 01:25:17.260 --> 01:25:20.329 it back up and keeps walking by it. Wow. And 01:25:20.329 --> 01:25:23.130 I say to myself, because I have a chapter in 01:25:23.130 --> 01:25:25.449 here called Body and Mind. There it is. Check 01:25:25.449 --> 01:25:28.609 this out. Just watch. It's a black bear. Clearly. 01:25:28.850 --> 01:25:31.449 This looks wrong. Yeah, it looks wrong. Okay. 01:25:31.590 --> 01:25:33.470 By the way, you found this video really fast. 01:25:33.590 --> 01:25:36.689 Thank you for this. I think that's a grizzly 01:25:36.689 --> 01:25:39.909 bear. Oh, he's got the lump on the neck? Yeah, 01:25:40.010 --> 01:25:44.789 the way he looks. That's pretty crazy. Yeah, 01:25:44.829 --> 01:25:46.510 that's grizzly. That's a total grizzly bear. 01:25:46.609 --> 01:25:49.020 And it keeps going. Didn't even look back. Right. 01:25:49.939 --> 01:25:52.199 What do you think is going on with that? I don't 01:25:52.199 --> 01:25:54.800 want to say that's evidence of intelligence so 01:25:54.800 --> 01:25:58.920 much as it's evidence of more going on inside 01:25:58.920 --> 01:26:02.359 the animal's head than any of us would have previously 01:26:02.359 --> 01:26:07.560 ever credited. Yeah. In another example, and 01:26:07.560 --> 01:26:09.859 I get this example in Body and Mind again, there's 01:26:09.859 --> 01:26:15.279 a magpie bird who there's a bottle of water in 01:26:15.279 --> 01:26:20.199 some... playground area, park area. And it goes 01:26:20.199 --> 01:26:21.840 up to the bottle of water and it dips its beak 01:26:21.840 --> 01:26:23.939 in to drink from it. Okay, here it is. See it 01:26:23.939 --> 01:26:26.100 is? Okay, it goes in and drinks from it. So watch, 01:26:26.239 --> 01:26:28.619 it's going to drink. But the problem is there's 01:26:28.619 --> 01:26:32.039 a limit to how far its beak can reach inside 01:26:32.039 --> 01:26:37.760 of it. And so it gets a stone. That fits inside 01:26:37.760 --> 01:26:41.779 the bottle, which raises the water level so that 01:26:41.779 --> 01:26:44.539 its beak can continue to drink from it. Yeah. 01:26:44.739 --> 01:26:49.380 This is some Archimedean crazy stuff going on. 01:26:49.420 --> 01:26:52.460 It really is. The magpie, by those in the know, 01:26:52.600 --> 01:26:56.840 is ranked among the smartest of birds. And this 01:26:56.840 --> 01:26:59.340 is doing something I think humans wouldn't even 01:26:59.340 --> 01:27:02.380 think to do. Probably many humans. Right. And 01:27:02.380 --> 01:27:06.729 so do you remember? How did they teach you where 01:27:06.729 --> 01:27:08.409 humans were in the tree of life when you were 01:27:08.409 --> 01:27:10.569 in school? Like we were the smartest or the biggest 01:27:10.569 --> 01:27:12.470 brain. How did they describe it to you? Yeah, 01:27:12.529 --> 01:27:15.430 we're the top of the food chain. Okay. And what 01:27:15.430 --> 01:27:17.670 do they say about our brains? Just tell me in 01:27:17.670 --> 01:27:19.470 your – Well, it's the size of our brains that 01:27:19.470 --> 01:27:21.229 makes us so superior. Okay. But then you look 01:27:21.229 --> 01:27:23.250 at a magpie. Yeah, but dolphins' brains are bigger. 01:27:23.449 --> 01:27:26.770 Yeah, 40 % larger. Okay. So then therefore what 01:27:26.770 --> 01:27:32.130 is – whale brains are bigger. Yeah. So then how 01:27:32.130 --> 01:27:34.329 do they, if there are other animals with bigger 01:27:34.329 --> 01:27:36.350 brains and we want to stay at the top, what do 01:27:36.350 --> 01:27:39.250 they say about those other animals? I don't know. 01:27:39.250 --> 01:27:40.869 What do they say? No, I'm saying, okay, so you 01:27:40.869 --> 01:27:41.949 know what they did? They say they're inferior? 01:27:42.170 --> 01:27:43.949 So no, so what they did was say, they said, oh, 01:27:44.050 --> 01:27:45.789 no, we don't have the biggest brain. Oh, but 01:27:45.789 --> 01:27:50.529 brain to body weight ratio, then we're the highest. 01:27:51.109 --> 01:27:53.869 Okay. Is that accurate with dolphins? Yes. So 01:27:53.869 --> 01:27:56.729 our, because they're, they're bigger, much bigger 01:27:56.729 --> 01:28:00.319 creatures than we are. And when you divide the 01:28:00.319 --> 01:28:01.939 weight of the brain by the weight of the body, 01:28:02.039 --> 01:28:06.520 we win. We beat out whales. We beat out dolphins. 01:28:06.659 --> 01:28:09.720 We beat out elephants. Then there are those who 01:28:09.720 --> 01:28:11.819 are fans of those say, well, you want to do it 01:28:11.819 --> 01:28:14.359 lean weight because the dolphins and the whales 01:28:14.359 --> 01:28:17.840 have a lot of blubber, and the brain is not having 01:28:17.840 --> 01:28:19.960 to control the blubber. So cut away the blubber. 01:28:20.020 --> 01:28:21.960 That boosts them, but they're still not as high 01:28:21.960 --> 01:28:24.380 as us. So we walk away saying we're at the top. 01:28:25.420 --> 01:28:30.079 However, what they did not say, which I had to, 01:28:30.119 --> 01:28:36.560 40 years later, I learned this, that we do not 01:28:36.560 --> 01:28:39.939 have the highest brain to body weight ratio among 01:28:39.939 --> 01:28:44.319 animals, only among mammals. The magpie has a 01:28:44.319 --> 01:28:46.739 higher brain to body weight ratio than humans 01:28:46.739 --> 01:28:52.439 do, as do all other mid -sized birds, like crows, 01:28:52.439 --> 01:28:58.840 owls, eagles, these folks, okay? All. have a 01:28:58.840 --> 01:29:00.819 higher brain -to -body weight ratio than humans 01:29:00.819 --> 01:29:05.100 do. So that rule that put us at the top was specifically 01:29:05.100 --> 01:29:09.619 for mammals. And I'm angry that I didn't think 01:29:09.619 --> 01:29:13.340 to hear how specific that was when I was taught 01:29:13.340 --> 01:29:17.220 that in eighth grade. Isn't our understanding 01:29:17.220 --> 01:29:20.920 of crows using tools very recent, like within 01:29:20.920 --> 01:29:23.680 the last hundred years? All I can tell you is... 01:29:23.899 --> 01:29:26.880 Any animal that we have ever got to study in 01:29:26.880 --> 01:29:29.479 more detail than we previously did has shown 01:29:29.479 --> 01:29:31.739 to be more intelligent than we ever gave it credit 01:29:31.739 --> 01:29:35.420 for being. And you know who has the biggest brain 01:29:35.420 --> 01:29:37.640 -to -body ratio of any creature on Earth? Who? 01:29:38.939 --> 01:29:42.760 Some species of ants. Really? 15 % of their body 01:29:42.760 --> 01:29:44.920 weight is their brain. And it's kind of obvious. 01:29:44.960 --> 01:29:46.720 Some of them, like the whole front section is 01:29:46.720 --> 01:29:49.189 their head. Right. It's kind of... In retrospect, 01:29:49.369 --> 01:29:51.989 it's kind of obvious. And ants are very busy 01:29:51.989 --> 01:29:53.949 doing some complicated things, and we don't know 01:29:53.949 --> 01:29:55.729 what they're doing. Especially leafcutter ants. 01:29:55.989 --> 01:29:59.149 They're busy, carpenter ants, leafcutting ants, 01:29:59.270 --> 01:30:03.390 and cross over into termite land. I don't know 01:30:03.390 --> 01:30:05.029 how big their brains are, but they're busy building 01:30:05.029 --> 01:30:07.970 stuff. And they work in communication with each 01:30:07.970 --> 01:30:10.170 other somehow. And they communicate. Yeah. One 01:30:10.170 --> 01:30:12.430 of my favorite cartoons was two dolphins swimming 01:30:12.430 --> 01:30:15.760 together, and there's a human. You know, it's 01:30:15.760 --> 01:30:18.220 like one of these water parks, right? And one 01:30:18.220 --> 01:30:21.659 dolphin says to the other. Speaking of the humans 01:30:21.659 --> 01:30:24.220 that are up on dry land, they face each other 01:30:24.220 --> 01:30:26.180 and make noises, but it's not clear they're actually 01:30:26.180 --> 01:30:33.880 communicating. So I'm just saying we have a close 01:30:33.880 --> 01:30:37.619 -up of an ant. Yeah, they recently released this 01:30:37.619 --> 01:30:42.550 image, I think. So. What a horrific demon that 01:30:42.550 --> 01:30:45.329 would be. Insects with so much detail on their 01:30:45.329 --> 01:30:48.329 bodies. And to say, well, we're at the top. Really? 01:30:49.029 --> 01:30:51.470 I got one for you. How much of the top are you? 01:30:51.510 --> 01:30:55.550 Do you realize one slice of your lower intestine, 01:30:55.789 --> 01:31:03.869 your colon? One centimeter slice lives and works 01:31:03.869 --> 01:31:09.529 more microbes than all. than the total number 01:31:09.529 --> 01:31:17.710 of humans who ever lived. So ask yourself, what 01:31:17.710 --> 01:31:22.270 are you to those microbes? Are you Joe Rogan? 01:31:22.329 --> 01:31:26.170 No, you are an anaerobic vessel of fecal matter 01:31:26.170 --> 01:31:31.050 in which they thrive. And without them, you don't 01:31:31.050 --> 01:31:33.029 exist. Well, you don't digest your food, first 01:31:33.029 --> 01:31:36.810 of all. Second, you want to keep them happy because 01:31:36.810 --> 01:31:39.470 if they're not happy, then they're in charge. 01:31:40.170 --> 01:31:44.050 They send you to the nearest toilet as fast as 01:31:44.050 --> 01:31:48.489 can be. So part of a cosmic perspective on this 01:31:48.489 --> 01:31:52.449 world is looking at things in a way that decentralizes 01:31:52.449 --> 01:31:54.850 who and what you are relative to everything else. 01:31:55.229 --> 01:31:59.329 And you get a much more honest account of how 01:31:59.329 --> 01:32:01.649 things work, how they're put together. That's 01:32:01.649 --> 01:32:04.069 very hard for people to really grasp. You're 01:32:04.069 --> 01:32:07.569 actually an ecosystem. Yes. Yes, and what is 01:32:07.569 --> 01:32:10.590 the number? Some percent of your total body weight 01:32:10.590 --> 01:32:13.229 is the weight of other living things, especially 01:32:13.229 --> 01:32:15.930 what's alive and thriving in your gut. You're 01:32:15.930 --> 01:32:18.029 just carrying them along. Well, that's the case 01:32:18.029 --> 01:32:19.609 with all organisms, though. We like to think 01:32:19.609 --> 01:32:22.369 of organisms as being individuals, but they're 01:32:22.369 --> 01:32:26.289 actually hosts. No, I don't think amoebas have— 01:32:26.289 --> 01:32:27.329 Well, not all, not when you get down to single 01:32:27.329 --> 01:32:29.789 cells. Not single cells, but others, yeah. A 01:32:29.789 --> 01:32:32.510 lot of symbiotic relationships going on. Oh, 01:32:32.529 --> 01:32:34.449 yeah. And so you can have a cosmic perspective 01:32:34.449 --> 01:32:37.590 that's not just the cosmos. Yes. The cosmic perspective 01:32:37.590 --> 01:32:43.329 just here, life on Earth. And, you know, they 01:32:43.329 --> 01:32:45.729 talked about the overview effect where the astronauts, 01:32:45.970 --> 01:32:47.770 you probably had a few astronauts here as your 01:32:47.770 --> 01:32:51.979 guests. Looking down. Yeah, you look down. I 01:32:51.979 --> 01:32:54.300 prefer the view from the moon. I'll take it from 01:32:54.300 --> 01:32:56.180 orbit. Are you going to do any of those? Like 01:32:56.180 --> 01:32:59.300 if they let you up on the Jeff Bezos spaceship? 01:32:59.520 --> 01:33:01.420 They send people up there all the time now, right? 01:33:01.880 --> 01:33:04.939 It's fairly regular. I'm an astrophysicist. You're 01:33:04.939 --> 01:33:07.460 not interested? No. Hear me out. Hear me out. 01:33:07.539 --> 01:33:11.380 So take Earth and shrink it down to like a schoolroom 01:33:11.380 --> 01:33:14.460 globe. So now we can think of distances relative 01:33:14.460 --> 01:33:17.579 to that. And ask, how high up did Bezos and Branson 01:33:17.579 --> 01:33:21.390 go? Okay. So here's a school. How far away would 01:33:21.390 --> 01:33:23.829 you say? Quarter inch. You say quarter inch? 01:33:23.890 --> 01:33:26.649 Okay. They went the thickness of two dimes. Oh. 01:33:28.430 --> 01:33:31.590 And a boy who jumped out of a balloon some years 01:33:31.590 --> 01:33:35.729 ago. Yeah. What's his name? Felix Baumgartner? 01:33:35.850 --> 01:33:39.729 Mm -hmm. Thickness of one dime. So this idea 01:33:39.729 --> 01:33:41.470 that they go, oh, I see the curvature of the 01:33:41.470 --> 01:33:45.430 earth. No, you don't. You don't. I'm sorry. Jeff 01:33:45.430 --> 01:33:47.250 Bezos doesn't see the curvature of the Earth? 01:33:47.270 --> 01:33:52.090 You will see the edge of the Earth, but ask how 01:33:52.090 --> 01:33:55.090 far away is your horizon when you're only that 01:33:55.090 --> 01:33:58.850 high up? You can just look at that, go to the 01:33:58.850 --> 01:34:04.149 schoolroom globe, go two dime thicknesses up, 01:34:04.250 --> 01:34:07.930 and then draw a line to ask how much of Earth 01:34:07.930 --> 01:34:10.189 do you see? You will see a circle, but that's 01:34:10.189 --> 01:34:12.729 a circle cookie cut out of the larger sphere. 01:34:13.640 --> 01:34:15.739 So it's a perspective issue. It's a perspective 01:34:15.739 --> 01:34:19.119 issue. And by the way, the images when they showed 01:34:19.119 --> 01:34:22.859 Felix Baumgartner, where he's prepared to jump, 01:34:22.939 --> 01:34:26.659 you see this curved earth. That's a fisheye lens, 01:34:26.899 --> 01:34:31.020 dude. Okay? Fisheye lenses take horizontal lines 01:34:31.020 --> 01:34:36.199 and bend them convex when you're above the midplane 01:34:36.199 --> 01:34:39.390 of the photo. In order to gather in more of the 01:34:39.390 --> 01:34:41.649 image. Correct. That's the only way you can distort 01:34:41.649 --> 01:34:43.909 it to fit it onto a flat plane because it's looking 01:34:43.909 --> 01:34:48.029 at a full sort of 360, well, 180, and it's trying 01:34:48.029 --> 01:34:50.130 to get it in. But what happens if you take that 01:34:50.130 --> 01:34:52.649 horizontal line, the horizon, and put it below 01:34:52.649 --> 01:34:56.149 the midplane of the camera? It then bends the 01:34:56.149 --> 01:34:59.529 other way. Bends the other way. In fact, I have 01:34:59.529 --> 01:35:05.060 a tweet. that did this. Look for Felix and throw 01:35:05.060 --> 01:35:07.640 some keywords in there with my Twitter handle, 01:35:07.720 --> 01:35:11.180 and I have an example of the photos. So, no, 01:35:11.300 --> 01:35:12.539 he didn't see the curvature of the Earth, but 01:35:12.539 --> 01:35:14.279 you think he did, and he's high up, and what 01:35:14.279 --> 01:35:18.119 do we need NASA for, right? He's one dime thickness. 01:35:20.159 --> 01:35:22.779 Elon Musk authentically goes into orbit, because 01:35:22.779 --> 01:35:24.220 they didn't go into orbit. They went up and fell 01:35:24.220 --> 01:35:26.779 back to Earth. He authentically goes into orbit. 01:35:27.420 --> 01:35:34.500 So he is a centimeter. Well, not even. Let me 01:35:34.500 --> 01:35:37.439 see. Yeah, a little less than a centimeter above 01:35:37.439 --> 01:35:40.119 Earth's surface. The folks who really saw Earth 01:35:40.119 --> 01:35:45.460 were the folks that went to the moon. We went 01:35:45.460 --> 01:35:47.739 to the moon nine times, three astronauts a pop, 01:35:47.880 --> 01:35:50.399 27 astronauts have seen Earth from the moon. 01:35:51.680 --> 01:35:57.279 And that'll change you. Do you know Apollo 14 01:35:57.279 --> 01:36:01.609 astronaut Edgar Mitchell? I have a quote from 01:36:01.609 --> 01:36:07.329 him that opens this book. And that's all you 01:36:07.329 --> 01:36:09.729 have to read because the whole book issues forth 01:36:09.729 --> 01:36:16.109 from that quote. Here it is. Edgar Mitchell, 01:36:16.170 --> 01:36:21.739 Apollo 14. You develop an instant. global consciousness, 01:36:22.119 --> 01:36:26.180 a people orientation, an intense dissatisfaction 01:36:26.180 --> 01:36:29.020 with the state of the world, and a compulsion 01:36:29.020 --> 01:36:32.520 to do something about it. From out there on the 01:36:32.520 --> 01:36:35.100 moon, international politics looks so petty. 01:36:35.380 --> 01:36:37.859 You want to grab a politician by the scruff of 01:36:37.859 --> 01:36:40.159 the neck and drag him a quarter million miles 01:36:40.159 --> 01:36:43.319 out and say, look at that, you son of a bitch. 01:36:44.539 --> 01:36:46.880 Edgar Mitchell also believes some wacky stuff. 01:36:47.100 --> 01:36:49.199 Did you know that? Yeah, I've spoken with him 01:36:49.199 --> 01:36:54.199 about it. And he was one of the, was he co -founder 01:36:54.199 --> 01:36:59.039 of the Noetic Institute? He was a big fan of 01:36:59.039 --> 01:37:02.340 the possibility that there was a deeper level 01:37:02.340 --> 01:37:05.399 of consciousness. And I don't think it involved 01:37:05.399 --> 01:37:08.079 drugs, but just that there was a deeper level 01:37:08.079 --> 01:37:13.239 of consciousness that the brain might be capable 01:37:13.239 --> 01:37:17.500 of if subjected to the proper influences. And 01:37:17.500 --> 01:37:21.260 he told me how he. came across this. Okay. I'll 01:37:21.260 --> 01:37:23.579 tell you. They're on their way back from the 01:37:23.579 --> 01:37:26.640 moon and they're in the capsule and the capsule 01:37:26.640 --> 01:37:30.159 rotates. It helps to stabilize it among other 01:37:30.159 --> 01:37:33.840 reasons for that happening. And he happened to 01:37:33.840 --> 01:37:39.020 be positioned in the capsule for three days where 01:37:39.020 --> 01:37:42.680 the windows to the capsule were aligned with 01:37:42.680 --> 01:37:48.479 the plane of the solar system, which means Every 01:37:48.479 --> 01:37:53.279 time the capsule rotated, what came in and out 01:37:53.279 --> 01:37:57.859 of view was the sun, the moon, earth, and all 01:37:57.859 --> 01:38:02.340 the planets. And so he's there for three days 01:38:02.340 --> 01:38:08.420 watching this drift by. And he felt like he had 01:38:08.420 --> 01:38:14.800 descended or ascended into a trance state that 01:38:14.800 --> 01:38:18.060 was beyond what he had ever experienced before. 01:38:18.060 --> 01:38:21.460 here on Earth, by normal things you encounter 01:38:21.460 --> 01:38:25.699 just being a human on Earth. And that led him 01:38:25.699 --> 01:38:29.279 to wonder whether this was an achievable state 01:38:29.279 --> 01:38:34.000 by some other means, by some other forces that 01:38:34.000 --> 01:38:37.899 you could emulate here on Earth. And because 01:38:37.899 --> 01:38:41.079 he experienced that and I didn't, who am I to 01:38:41.079 --> 01:38:45.260 say? I'm not going to judge that. He believed 01:38:45.260 --> 01:38:47.800 in psychokinetics. He believed people can do 01:38:47.800 --> 01:38:50.699 things with their mind. He had a lot of very 01:38:50.699 --> 01:38:53.399 strange things that he was interested in. I think 01:38:53.399 --> 01:38:57.119 the cleanest way to say that is he believed there 01:38:57.119 --> 01:39:00.199 was much more capacity of our mind than we had 01:39:00.199 --> 01:39:02.880 previously tapped. And that opens up the gates 01:39:02.880 --> 01:39:05.680 to all these other things. But I was just sharing 01:39:05.680 --> 01:39:13.380 with you the experiential origins of why he thought 01:39:13.380 --> 01:39:17.470 that way. But the point is that that can change 01:39:17.470 --> 01:39:21.149 you. And in the chapter Earth and Moon, I talk 01:39:21.149 --> 01:39:25.689 about cosmic perspectives. As you ascend, the 01:39:25.689 --> 01:39:28.409 Earth does not look like the schoolroom globe. 01:39:28.609 --> 01:39:32.869 Right. Color -coded countries. You know, only 01:39:32.869 --> 01:39:34.770 as an adult did I look back on that and I say, 01:39:34.869 --> 01:39:41.109 you trained me from elementary school. to know 01:39:41.109 --> 01:39:43.850 who my enemies are and who my friends are by 01:39:43.850 --> 01:39:48.090 color -coding contiguous land masses on a globe 01:39:48.090 --> 01:39:51.250 to teach me about the planet Earth. But they 01:39:51.250 --> 01:39:52.869 weren't trying to do that. They were trying to 01:39:52.869 --> 01:39:54.250 explain geography. It's a consequence of it. 01:39:54.250 --> 01:39:58.590 I knew who the evil, godless Soviet Union was. 01:39:58.789 --> 01:40:01.930 Right. Okay? Their country was painted red. All 01:40:01.930 --> 01:40:06.270 right? Not ours. I knew this even if it was not 01:40:06.270 --> 01:40:10.550 on purpose. It had a subliminal effect. And when 01:40:10.550 --> 01:40:13.789 you go into space, the country borders go away. 01:40:13.949 --> 01:40:16.550 Except for two places. There are two places. 01:40:17.170 --> 01:40:21.449 You can still see two borders from space. One 01:40:21.449 --> 01:40:24.229 of them in the daytime. You can see the border 01:40:24.229 --> 01:40:27.930 of Israel with surrounding deserts. Because Israel 01:40:27.930 --> 01:40:33.239 irrigates. And so it's green. And the surrounding 01:40:33.239 --> 01:40:35.960 areas are brown. You can see that from space. 01:40:36.199 --> 01:40:38.600 Another border, which you can see from space 01:40:38.600 --> 01:40:42.260 at night, is, of course, North and South Korea 01:40:42.260 --> 01:40:45.779 right there. Yeah. That's crazy. And that's punched 01:40:45.779 --> 01:40:48.020 up. I mean, if you're in the dead of night, you 01:40:48.020 --> 01:40:50.399 don't know the difference between the ocean and 01:40:50.399 --> 01:40:56.500 the land as your sight line crosses North and 01:40:56.500 --> 01:41:02.119 South Korea. So if you look at the GDP per capita 01:41:02.119 --> 01:41:06.039 differences between Israel and surrounding nations 01:41:06.039 --> 01:41:10.460 and South Korea and North Korea, it's factors 01:41:10.460 --> 01:41:17.539 of 8, 9, 10, 12. So space can reveal economic 01:41:17.539 --> 01:41:23.039 inequities in at least those two places, which 01:41:23.039 --> 01:41:28.619 is itself kind of a stunning fact. So I want 01:41:28.619 --> 01:41:31.140 to tell Elon, you're now neighbors with him, 01:41:31.180 --> 01:41:32.659 right? Get him back here and say, Elon, build 01:41:32.659 --> 01:41:37.300 a bus, a space bus. We have an air bus. Why not 01:41:37.300 --> 01:41:39.840 a space bus? A space bus where you put all the 01:41:39.840 --> 01:41:42.840 warring leaders. And have them send them to the 01:41:42.840 --> 01:41:44.380 moon, have them look back on Earth. Say, you 01:41:44.380 --> 01:41:46.199 know, we're fighting over that border. We are? 01:41:46.340 --> 01:41:48.100 Once they came back down, I think they'd just 01:41:48.100 --> 01:41:51.020 go right back to work. You think so? I just went 01:41:51.020 --> 01:41:53.380 to the Keck Observatory on Wednesday. Nice. It 01:41:53.380 --> 01:41:55.220 was amazing. Hawaii. Yeah. Big island. Very nice. 01:41:55.319 --> 01:41:56.939 Did you go to the base camp or already at the 01:41:56.939 --> 01:41:59.140 top? The base camp. Yeah. I went specifically 01:41:59.140 --> 01:42:02.859 there because I had an experience there about, 01:42:03.399 --> 01:42:08.869 I was. Six, 17 years ago, I went there and I 01:42:08.869 --> 01:42:12.229 caught it on a perfect night where the moon wasn't 01:42:12.229 --> 01:42:15.930 out and it was phenomenal. And the view is so 01:42:15.930 --> 01:42:18.590 astounding. There's so many stars. You see the 01:42:18.590 --> 01:42:21.189 Milky Way in such clear detail that you have 01:42:21.189 --> 01:42:23.350 a totally different perspective of the cosmos. 01:42:23.609 --> 01:42:27.369 And you feel like you're flying through space 01:42:27.369 --> 01:42:30.550 with a windshield over your head, like you're 01:42:30.550 --> 01:42:32.409 in a spaceship. You know, there's some other, 01:42:32.489 --> 01:42:36.489 my entire... PhD thesis involved mountain going. 01:42:37.069 --> 01:42:42.010 It's a lost ritual because now we'd have what's 01:42:42.010 --> 01:42:44.029 called service observing. You just write in what 01:42:44.029 --> 01:42:46.130 things you want to observe and what nights for 01:42:46.130 --> 01:42:48.329 how many hours and then they send you back the 01:42:48.329 --> 01:42:50.449 data. There used to be a pilgrimage to the top 01:42:50.449 --> 01:42:52.430 of a mountain and you'd live nocturnally and 01:42:52.430 --> 01:42:54.689 you'd go to the and be up all night with the 01:42:54.689 --> 01:42:57.449 telescope and the universe. There's a certain 01:42:57.449 --> 01:43:04.390 almost spiritual connectivity. that brings upon 01:43:04.390 --> 01:43:07.470 you when it's just you alone. And there are moments 01:43:07.470 --> 01:43:09.850 that mountains are high up enough so that if 01:43:09.850 --> 01:43:13.149 clouds roll in, you're above the clouds. We were 01:43:13.149 --> 01:43:14.569 above the clouds. You're above the clouds. This 01:43:14.569 --> 01:43:18.689 is what makes it especially spooky, magical, 01:43:18.869 --> 01:43:21.590 mystical, Mount Olympus -like. Because you're 01:43:21.590 --> 01:43:24.449 on the top. There's no other land. It's just 01:43:24.449 --> 01:43:29.770 clouds. So it's you, the tops of clouds, and 01:43:29.770 --> 01:43:32.869 the universe. Yeah. Communing. with the cosmos. 01:43:33.689 --> 01:43:37.789 Just the view of it is so astounding. And many 01:43:37.789 --> 01:43:40.750 people who go to Australia say, oh, you got to 01:43:40.750 --> 01:43:44.289 see the southern skies. What they don't know 01:43:44.289 --> 01:43:48.789 when they say that is any clear sky anywhere 01:43:48.789 --> 01:43:51.890 in the world will get you that. Yeah. In the 01:43:51.890 --> 01:43:55.970 southern hemisphere, only 15 % of humans live 01:43:55.970 --> 01:43:59.550 there. So there's essentially no light pollution. 01:44:00.370 --> 01:44:03.210 anywhere there. 85 % of all humans in the north, 01:44:03.350 --> 01:44:06.310 you're hard pressed to find a completely dark 01:44:06.310 --> 01:44:09.250 sky in the north, leaving you to think that there's 01:44:09.250 --> 01:44:11.090 something magically beautiful and different about 01:44:11.090 --> 01:44:13.630 the southern sky. You're observing the northern 01:44:13.630 --> 01:44:17.350 sky. Hawaii's like 15 degrees north, so it's 01:44:17.350 --> 01:44:19.310 a lot of the southern sky as well. Point is, 01:44:19.449 --> 01:44:23.010 you have the best observing site in the world, 01:44:23.149 --> 01:44:25.569 which is why they wanted to put a 30 meter telescope 01:44:25.569 --> 01:44:30.760 there and there's some conflict with the... indigenous 01:44:30.760 --> 01:44:33.260 groups regarding that and whether the mountain 01:44:33.260 --> 01:44:35.640 is sacred and in what ways it's sacred and the 01:44:35.640 --> 01:44:38.180 like. And so that's still going on, last I checked. 01:44:38.319 --> 01:44:41.239 But I'm not surprised and I'm delighted that 01:44:41.239 --> 01:44:43.060 you had that experience. And now you know how 01:44:43.060 --> 01:44:48.800 I feel when I look up. I was baptized in emotionally, 01:44:49.020 --> 01:44:51.600 psychologically baptized with the night sky in 01:44:51.600 --> 01:44:54.279 New York City's Hayden Planetarium. Because as 01:44:54.279 --> 01:44:56.600 a city kid, I grew up in the Bronx. We don't 01:44:56.600 --> 01:44:59.720 have a relationship with the night sky. We might 01:44:59.720 --> 01:45:03.260 see the moon and an occasional planet, the setting 01:45:03.260 --> 01:45:06.739 sun, that's it. You look up, that's it. You see 01:45:06.739 --> 01:45:09.979 the tall buildings. Back then there was air pollution, 01:45:10.319 --> 01:45:13.760 light pollution. So my first night sky was the 01:45:13.760 --> 01:45:18.020 Hayden Planetarium. To this day, I was nine years 01:45:18.020 --> 01:45:20.079 old. To this day, when I go to mountaintops, 01:45:20.079 --> 01:45:23.819 just as you experience, and I look up, I said 01:45:23.819 --> 01:45:26.500 to myself, this is so beautiful. It reminds me 01:45:26.500 --> 01:45:29.640 of the Hayden Planetarium. That's funny. I know 01:45:29.640 --> 01:45:32.000 that's messed up, but that's how I feel. And 01:45:32.000 --> 01:45:35.560 you've got a sky here with meteors. I'm loving 01:45:35.560 --> 01:45:38.279 it, man. Shitty stars. I'm loving it. Yeah. The 01:45:38.279 --> 01:45:41.359 view that I saw on Wednesday was not as good 01:45:41.359 --> 01:45:43.800 as the view that I saw whatever it was 16, 17 01:45:43.800 --> 01:45:45.840 years ago. Wait, who laid out these stars? Oh, 01:45:45.840 --> 01:45:48.079 it's just there's LED panels. You didn't call 01:45:48.079 --> 01:45:50.380 me. No, they're not accurate. They're just little 01:45:50.380 --> 01:45:54.449 dots. Dude. All right. At least you have stars. 01:45:54.529 --> 01:45:58.170 In my old pool in California, I had the star 01:45:58.170 --> 01:46:02.630 system of where, like, you know, I was born in 01:46:02.630 --> 01:46:05.510 August. So it's the constellation Leo. When you 01:46:05.510 --> 01:46:08.689 were born. Yeah, when I was born. Okay. Embedded 01:46:08.689 --> 01:46:11.670 into the ground of the pool. All right. There 01:46:11.670 --> 01:46:16.130 you go. There you go. Allegedly. You know, if 01:46:16.130 --> 01:46:18.750 they're asking me to verify it, I'm like, wow, 01:46:18.850 --> 01:46:23.430 it looks like stars. But that view of the Keck 01:46:23.430 --> 01:46:25.189 Observatory, just even from the base station, 01:46:25.409 --> 01:46:29.189 it's so stunning that it does reset your understanding 01:46:29.189 --> 01:46:32.250 of where we are. And it makes you angry that 01:46:32.250 --> 01:46:34.569 we have so much light pollution that people are 01:46:34.569 --> 01:46:36.909 denied that because I think it changes the way 01:46:36.909 --> 01:46:39.350 people view our relationship with the cosmos. 01:46:39.510 --> 01:46:42.109 In fact, it goes even deeper than that. But let 01:46:42.109 --> 01:46:50.569 me quickly. comment that there is an entire indigenous 01:46:50.569 --> 01:46:53.970 community in the world that is very concerned 01:46:53.970 --> 01:46:57.130 about the loss of very dark night skies because 01:46:57.130 --> 01:47:00.470 so much of the culture relates to that night 01:47:00.470 --> 01:47:03.390 sky as part of what it values and what it passes 01:47:03.390 --> 01:47:05.949 down from one generation to the next. And it 01:47:05.949 --> 01:47:08.170 goes beyond just the light pollution because 01:47:08.170 --> 01:47:15.149 now folks like your boy Elon Is launching – and 01:47:15.149 --> 01:47:17.890 I don't like the fact that they use the word 01:47:17.890 --> 01:47:20.550 constellation to refer to satellites because 01:47:20.550 --> 01:47:23.010 that's my word. That's my people's word, constellations. 01:47:23.010 --> 01:47:26.489 They're actual stars. Right. Not moving hardware. 01:47:27.130 --> 01:47:30.069 We've got people talking to people. I can connect 01:47:30.069 --> 01:47:34.069 you. No, no. We're friends. You're using the 01:47:34.069 --> 01:47:38.670 wrong words. I feel completely at home speaking 01:47:38.670 --> 01:47:41.109 to – he's on the spectrum a bit. I'd say one 01:47:41.109 --> 01:47:43.710 out of six of my colleagues is probably on the 01:47:43.710 --> 01:47:46.989 autism spectrum. In retrospect, now that I look 01:47:46.989 --> 01:47:49.590 at – and once you learn what the spectrum is, 01:47:49.770 --> 01:47:51.869 it used to be Asperger's and then they folded 01:47:51.869 --> 01:47:56.979 that in. There are colleagues who just – would 01:47:56.979 --> 01:47:59.199 not relate to another person or a camera, but 01:47:59.199 --> 01:48:01.260 they were graded in their lab and in the things. 01:48:01.340 --> 01:48:03.680 And so you say you're just not socialized. No, 01:48:03.760 --> 01:48:05.300 there's something else going on. Can I ask you 01:48:05.300 --> 01:48:07.800 a question about that? Oh, sure. Do you think 01:48:07.800 --> 01:48:11.539 that that is an evolutionary advantage that in 01:48:11.539 --> 01:48:14.560 some way people are developing in this manner 01:48:14.560 --> 01:48:19.300 so that they can concentrate on things like technology, 01:48:19.319 --> 01:48:24.989 like... astrophysics like these like very specific 01:48:24.989 --> 01:48:27.710 things that require immense amounts of concentration 01:48:27.710 --> 01:48:31.250 and extreme focus do you think there's possibly 01:48:31.250 --> 01:48:34.449 that human beings are developing in that way 01:48:34.449 --> 01:48:38.369 specifically to accentuate our ability to innovate 01:48:38.369 --> 01:48:42.210 so it would be very hard to draw that conclusion 01:48:42.210 --> 01:48:45.569 as some kind of modern force of evolution because 01:48:45.569 --> 01:48:48.779 for that to be the case What would have to happen 01:48:48.779 --> 01:48:52.479 is those who had this sort of autistic level 01:48:52.479 --> 01:48:56.539 of focus, so high -functioning autism, they would 01:48:56.539 --> 01:48:58.520 have to be making more babies than other people. 01:48:58.739 --> 01:49:03.579 Well, Elon is. He's out there doing his part. 01:49:03.880 --> 01:49:06.939 So they'd have to be making more babies relative 01:49:06.939 --> 01:49:11.380 to everyone else. to affect the evolutionary 01:49:11.380 --> 01:49:14.380 path of modern civilization. And it's not clear 01:49:14.380 --> 01:49:16.399 that that's what's actually happening. So we 01:49:16.399 --> 01:49:18.359 have to ask, did that have any value historically? 01:49:18.619 --> 01:49:21.399 I mean, in the history of the evolution of our 01:49:21.399 --> 01:49:26.560 species. So in the chapter Body and Mind, I go 01:49:26.560 --> 01:49:30.859 over the variations that exist within our species. 01:49:32.109 --> 01:49:37.670 Huge variations in height, in weight, in speed, 01:49:38.109 --> 01:49:44.810 in all kinds of things. And you can ask, well, 01:49:44.970 --> 01:49:49.609 then what is normal? The day that we control 01:49:49.609 --> 01:49:52.840 the genome. Is there going to be some place somewhere 01:49:52.840 --> 01:49:55.539 where there's a normal human and you're going 01:49:55.539 --> 01:49:57.840 to take your genome that you're about to control 01:49:57.840 --> 01:50:00.779 in your unborn child and say, let me adjust it 01:50:00.779 --> 01:50:03.659 so that it matches this so that all your senses 01:50:03.659 --> 01:50:06.619 are working as they're supposed to and all the 01:50:06.619 --> 01:50:09.539 proportions. Is that the future? We should ask 01:50:09.539 --> 01:50:12.920 that. Because if that's what you're going to 01:50:12.920 --> 01:50:17.060 do, you're going to homogenize the species. Yes. 01:50:17.239 --> 01:50:24.619 Okay? Do you realize? I have a run here of content. 01:50:25.319 --> 01:50:28.600 I have a run of descriptions of what people have 01:50:28.600 --> 01:50:31.779 accomplished, okay? All right, so for example, 01:50:31.800 --> 01:50:35.960 there's a guy growing up, he wanted to play basketball, 01:50:36.100 --> 01:50:39.960 okay? And he wanted to be a professional basketball 01:50:39.960 --> 01:50:42.979 player, all right? So he worked really hard. 01:50:43.399 --> 01:50:47.079 at it. And he just wasn't tall enough. So he 01:50:47.079 --> 01:50:50.060 said, you should give it up. But he stayed with 01:50:50.060 --> 01:50:53.720 it. Stayed with it. He said, no, this is for 01:50:53.720 --> 01:51:00.880 tall people. You're not tall. Okay? He now plays 01:51:00.880 --> 01:51:05.359 for the Harlem Globetrotters. His name is Hotshot. 01:51:05.460 --> 01:51:08.460 What's his last name? Well, Muggsy Bogues is 01:51:08.460 --> 01:51:11.819 a great example. This guy is four feet five. 01:51:12.430 --> 01:51:17.010 Whoa. Yes. He's a genetic dwarf. People told 01:51:17.010 --> 01:51:20.050 him he can't play basketball, and now he's one 01:51:20.050 --> 01:51:23.270 of the most popular basketball players. There 01:51:23.270 --> 01:51:26.449 he goes. Wow. Okay? Swanson. Hotshot Swanson. 01:51:27.210 --> 01:51:30.329 Okay? Well, there kind of seems like there'd 01:51:30.329 --> 01:51:32.369 be an advantage of being that small so he can 01:51:32.369 --> 01:51:34.930 move around that quick. I'm making a different 01:51:34.930 --> 01:51:36.770 point. Okay. Yes, the best part of the point. 01:51:36.869 --> 01:51:40.369 Right. The point is... When you look at someone 01:51:40.369 --> 01:51:43.909 and they're not quote normal and then you start 01:51:43.909 --> 01:51:46.590 listing what you think they should not do in 01:51:46.590 --> 01:51:51.409 life Hmm Constraining the options that maybe 01:51:51.409 --> 01:51:53.310 they have ambitions that are greater than anything 01:51:53.310 --> 01:51:59.890 you imagined right and so There's a letter There's 01:51:59.890 --> 01:52:04.789 a letter beautifully written Someone took a voyage 01:52:04.789 --> 01:52:09.409 on a steamship in 1915. And I reproduced the 01:52:09.409 --> 01:52:13.189 letter in here. Beautifully written. And this 01:52:13.189 --> 01:52:16.449 passenger was given a tour of their steamship, 01:52:16.449 --> 01:52:20.710 okay, by the captain. And this letter, I can't 01:52:20.710 --> 01:52:23.390 find it in here, but it's beautifully. I mean, 01:52:23.390 --> 01:52:24.850 is there time for me to read something? Sure. 01:52:24.850 --> 01:52:26.329 Can I do it? You have plenty of time. I got to 01:52:26.329 --> 01:52:28.010 read it. We have all the time in the world. Give 01:52:28.010 --> 01:52:30.819 me a second here. And talk among yourselves. 01:52:31.060 --> 01:52:47.319 Let me see. H -A -J -G. I got it. Okay. There 01:52:47.319 --> 01:52:53.659 it goes. Okay. Here's a letter. Okay. Again, 01:52:53.739 --> 01:52:56.619 this is in the body and mind chapter where we 01:52:56.619 --> 01:53:03.460 explore. Here it is. I had the wrong year. How 01:53:03.460 --> 01:53:06.739 about a letter written on April 10th, 1930, to 01:53:06.739 --> 01:53:10.819 Captain Von Beck of the U .S. lines SS President 01:53:10.819 --> 01:53:13.159 Roosevelt? That's Teddy Roosevelt, of course. 01:53:13.399 --> 01:53:15.840 The captain had given a tour of the bridge to 01:53:15.840 --> 01:53:20.159 a passenger who later that day waxed poetic about 01:53:20.159 --> 01:53:23.659 the experience. Again, I stood with the captain 01:53:23.659 --> 01:53:26.539 on the bridge, and he was quiet and composed 01:53:26.539 --> 01:53:30.819 in the presence of a million universes, a man 01:53:30.819 --> 01:53:34.600 with the power of a god. In imagination, I saw 01:53:34.600 --> 01:53:37.819 the captain standing on the bridge, gazing into 01:53:37.819 --> 01:53:41.640 the wide canopied heavens and seeing the darkness 01:53:41.640 --> 01:53:45.760 sprinkled with stars, systems, and galaxies. 01:53:48.020 --> 01:53:53.439 That passenger was Helen Keller. A 1904 graduate 01:53:53.439 --> 01:54:00.659 of Radcliffe College. Okay? So what my point 01:54:00.659 --> 01:54:04.479 is, and I have other, there's a whole run of 01:54:04.479 --> 01:54:06.939 pages of things, and there's a whole description 01:54:06.939 --> 01:54:09.739 of hotshot here, okay? From the Harlem Goat Trust. 01:54:09.819 --> 01:54:13.779 My point is, the moment you homogenize, and quote, 01:54:13.819 --> 01:54:18.100 normalize who and what humans should be, you 01:54:18.100 --> 01:54:25.390 have cut off So much of what has enriched civilization 01:54:25.390 --> 01:54:31.109 simply because people were different. Yes. Simply 01:54:31.109 --> 01:54:35.130 because. And so if everybody's the same, what 01:54:35.130 --> 01:54:36.789 kind of world? I don't want to live in that world. 01:54:37.350 --> 01:54:40.810 Give me a different world. Do you worry that... 01:54:40.810 --> 01:54:46.670 I got another one here. One more, okay? You probably 01:54:46.670 --> 01:54:48.510 know this, but those who don't know the name... 01:54:48.670 --> 01:54:52.489 Hold off on it, okay? Okay. Here it is. Jim Abbott. 01:54:52.569 --> 01:54:54.890 You know Jim Abbott? Sure. Okay. Some people 01:54:54.890 --> 01:54:57.489 won't, but here it goes. Jim Abbott wanted his 01:54:57.489 --> 01:54:59.489 whole life to be a professional baseball player, 01:54:59.770 --> 01:55:03.529 a dream shared by many American boys. Jim wanted 01:55:03.529 --> 01:55:06.289 to be a pitcher in the major leagues. He succeeded 01:55:06.289 --> 01:55:09.210 and played for many teams, chalking up a mixed 01:55:09.210 --> 01:55:12.170 record of wins and losses, but on September 4th, 01:55:12.170 --> 01:55:19.380 1993, while playing for the storied... I don't 01:55:19.380 --> 01:55:22.079 remember. New York Yankees. Dude. I thought it 01:55:22.079 --> 01:55:26.659 was the Mets. No. He pitched a no -hitter. That's 01:55:26.659 --> 01:55:29.279 when no batter gets a hit in the entire game. 01:55:29.640 --> 01:55:34.880 There have been about 320 no -hitters in Major 01:55:34.880 --> 01:55:39.739 League history out of 220 ,000 games played. 01:55:41.319 --> 01:55:44.140 Due to a congenital birth defect, Jim Abbott 01:55:44.140 --> 01:55:49.409 was born without a right hand. Is Jim Abbott 01:55:49.409 --> 01:55:53.850 disabled? Is he? He pitched a fucking no -hitter 01:55:53.850 --> 01:55:56.289 for the New York Yankees. What I'm saying is, 01:55:56.350 --> 01:56:00.109 obviously not everyone who has a disability will 01:56:00.109 --> 01:56:03.630 achieve this way. Yes. Don't get me wrong here, 01:56:03.710 --> 01:56:07.090 but what I want to say is, look at what people 01:56:07.090 --> 01:56:09.729 would have told, and I have six other examples 01:56:09.729 --> 01:56:12.609 here, one right after another. What people would 01:56:12.609 --> 01:56:16.869 have told them coming up, and Temple Grandin 01:56:16.869 --> 01:56:19.430 among them. Probably the most famous autistic 01:56:19.430 --> 01:56:23.489 person there ever was. She's professor of farming 01:56:23.489 --> 01:56:26.090 at the University of Colorado, somewhere in the 01:56:26.090 --> 01:56:30.250 West, where because she sees the world the way 01:56:30.250 --> 01:56:33.229 animals do, she could advise farmers in ways 01:56:33.229 --> 01:56:35.909 they can handle and herd cows that does not create 01:56:35.909 --> 01:56:38.750 stress in them. She figures stuff out. She has 01:56:38.750 --> 01:56:41.529 research papers. Yes. But you're going to say, 01:56:41.550 --> 01:56:43.329 oh, she's not the life of the party. Get her 01:56:43.329 --> 01:56:47.159 out of here. What are we doing? Can I give you 01:56:47.159 --> 01:56:49.140 an example? A personal example? What the hell? 01:56:49.380 --> 01:56:53.100 And so I was angry writing that chapter. I was 01:56:53.100 --> 01:56:56.720 angry. One more. I got to go. Okay. Let me keep. 01:56:56.800 --> 01:56:59.159 Okay. Let me give you a personal example. My 01:56:59.159 --> 01:57:01.899 jujitsu instructor. Yes. John John Machado. Yes. 01:57:02.020 --> 01:57:05.039 Was born with on his left hand. He only has a 01:57:05.039 --> 01:57:08.060 thumb. He has a genetic defect where he has no 01:57:08.060 --> 01:57:10.560 fingers on his left hand. Call it a genetic feature. 01:57:10.760 --> 01:57:13.560 A genetic feature. You value judging. It is a 01:57:13.560 --> 01:57:15.439 feature because he's a multiple -time world champion. 01:57:15.659 --> 01:57:18.659 And because of the fact that he was born with 01:57:18.659 --> 01:57:21.500 this one hand that didn't have fingers, he developed 01:57:21.500 --> 01:57:24.140 a style of jiu -jitsu that enabled him. You see 01:57:24.140 --> 01:57:26.699 his hand there? He's one of the absolute best 01:57:26.699 --> 01:57:29.100 that's ever done it. And he developed a style 01:57:29.100 --> 01:57:31.779 of jiu -jitsu where he utilizes that left hand 01:57:31.779 --> 01:57:35.380 to get under chins because it's not in control. 01:57:35.279 --> 01:57:38.060 The other fingers aren't in the way. And he slides 01:57:38.060 --> 01:57:40.619 it in there and sinks rear naked chokes on people. 01:57:40.779 --> 01:57:42.939 And he also developed a style that didn't rely 01:57:42.939 --> 01:57:47.739 on grips. He developed a style that's overhooks 01:57:47.739 --> 01:57:50.840 and underhooks, which became modern no -gi jiu 01:57:50.840 --> 01:57:53.020 -jitsu, which is incorporated in mixed martial 01:57:53.020 --> 01:57:55.239 arts because in mixed martial arts, they don't 01:57:55.239 --> 01:57:57.319 wear the kimono. And people who have fingers. 01:57:57.770 --> 01:57:59.569 Probably would have never even thought to think 01:57:59.569 --> 01:58:01.430 that way. And people who saw Jean -Jacques Machado 01:58:01.430 --> 01:58:03.989 as a child said, oh, this poor child, he will 01:58:03.989 --> 01:58:06.489 never reach his full potential and turned out 01:58:06.489 --> 01:58:08.470 to be one of the greatest ever. Got one here. 01:58:11.989 --> 01:58:17.569 So Oliver Sacks was a noted neurologist pioneering 01:58:17.569 --> 01:58:20.289 entire subfields within his profession. He was 01:58:20.289 --> 01:58:23.010 also a bestselling author describing the human 01:58:23.010 --> 01:58:25.689 brain as the most incredible thing in the universe. 01:58:26.279 --> 01:58:29.479 He led a remarkably varied life while suffering 01:58:29.479 --> 01:58:35.319 from a neurological affliction called prospopagnosia, 01:58:35.460 --> 01:58:39.720 more commonly known as face blindness. This condition 01:58:39.720 --> 01:58:43.380 contributed to his severe shyness since he couldn't 01:58:43.380 --> 01:58:47.399 recognize faces, even if he recognized everything 01:58:47.399 --> 01:58:54.560 else about you. At times, he would not even recognize... 01:58:54.859 --> 01:58:59.800 His own face in the mirror. Whoa. And he's shy 01:58:59.800 --> 01:59:02.140 because if he's interested in a... How does that 01:59:02.140 --> 01:59:05.739 work? If he has a love interest, he doesn't know 01:59:05.739 --> 01:59:07.779 the next time he sees that person whether that 01:59:07.779 --> 01:59:10.640 was who he had the conversation with. Okay? In 01:59:10.640 --> 01:59:14.899 2012, after a lecture on hallucination at Cooper 01:59:14.899 --> 01:59:17.159 Union College in New York City, I asked him, 01:59:17.260 --> 01:59:20.380 if you could go back in time, would you take 01:59:20.380 --> 01:59:24.350 a magic pill in your youth? to cure your neurological 01:59:24.350 --> 01:59:29.689 disorder. Without hesitation, he replied, no. 01:59:30.250 --> 01:59:34.109 His entire professional interest in the human 01:59:34.109 --> 01:59:38.390 mind was inspired by the very disorders in his 01:59:38.390 --> 01:59:41.890 own brain. He wouldn't have it any other way. 01:59:42.970 --> 01:59:46.539 How does that work? Where they can't see faces, 01:59:46.579 --> 01:59:48.439 but they can read. No, you can see faces. They 01:59:48.439 --> 01:59:50.500 just don't recognize them. It doesn't land in 01:59:50.500 --> 01:59:53.960 any place that you recognize. Every face, even 01:59:53.960 --> 01:59:56.079 if you've seen it before, is like a brand new 01:59:56.079 --> 01:59:59.359 face. Wow. So he'd have to recognize your voice, 01:59:59.699 --> 02:00:05.760 your vocabulary, your accents, your body gestures, 02:00:05.859 --> 02:00:09.960 this sort of thing. Wow. So doesn't Brad Pitt 02:00:09.960 --> 02:00:12.880 supposedly have that? That I don't know. I don't 02:00:12.880 --> 02:00:18.140 know. Prospo... Diagnosia? Yeah, I... Let's see 02:00:18.140 --> 02:00:21.539 if that's true. I felt like he said he has some 02:00:21.539 --> 02:00:24.020 form of that. Is that what he told one girlfriend 02:00:24.020 --> 02:00:25.920 when he saw the next one? Is that what you're 02:00:25.920 --> 02:00:30.039 saying? How dare you? Yeah, he does? He has some 02:00:30.039 --> 02:00:32.960 variant on that? What does it say? Yeah, he explained 02:00:32.960 --> 02:00:34.960 that. He hasn't officially been diagnosed with 02:00:34.960 --> 02:00:37.819 it. He has extremely... Extreme difficulty recognizing 02:00:37.819 --> 02:00:40.659 people's faces Wow, so maybe there's a varying 02:00:40.659 --> 02:00:42.840 spectrum Of course, as there would be in anything 02:00:42.840 --> 02:00:46.520 Yeah, there it is Yeah, yeah Face blindness That's 02:00:46.520 --> 02:00:48.159 a very recent article there in this past year 02:00:48.159 --> 02:00:50.460 How crazy is he? He's got one of the best faces 02:00:50.460 --> 02:00:54.600 ever And he can't recognize his faces Yeah, so 02:00:54.600 --> 02:01:00.859 it's the idea So all of this you'd expect to 02:01:00.859 --> 02:01:04.340 happen on some kind of spectrum Yes. Severity, 02:01:04.340 --> 02:01:09.960 let's call it, or featurity. And depending on 02:01:09.960 --> 02:01:11.899 where you are on that spectrum, you will have 02:01:11.899 --> 02:01:17.859 certain access to ways people have never thought 02:01:17.859 --> 02:01:20.220 before, ways people have never done things before. 02:01:21.659 --> 02:01:23.960 Have you seen the video of the woman somewhere 02:01:23.960 --> 02:01:29.380 in East Asia who has no arms? And she gets out 02:01:29.380 --> 02:01:31.800 of bed, folds up her, takes care of her child, 02:01:31.939 --> 02:01:33.920 puts on her makeup. With her feet. With her feet. 02:01:34.000 --> 02:01:37.880 Yeah. With her feet. Yeah. And so, yeah, she 02:01:37.880 --> 02:01:41.119 puts on her makeup and puts on her coat, puts 02:01:41.119 --> 02:01:45.180 on, there's a whole video about this. And so, 02:01:45.279 --> 02:01:49.960 I don't know what else to tell you. Oh, you must 02:01:49.960 --> 02:01:53.659 know this, my other guy here. You must know him. 02:01:53.960 --> 02:01:57.579 If not, get him on, okay? Get the dude on your 02:01:57.579 --> 02:02:01.869 show. Hang on. Studies show one in 50 people 02:02:01.869 --> 02:02:05.189 may have developed that face blindness. It could 02:02:05.189 --> 02:02:07.989 be genetic, but this doesn't say. Developmental. 02:02:08.130 --> 02:02:13.670 Hmm. Yeah, it's interesting. But how is it that 02:02:13.670 --> 02:02:17.109 he always winds up with hot women? Come on, Brad. 02:02:17.109 --> 02:02:18.350 He said people don't believe him because they 02:02:18.350 --> 02:02:20.890 think it's self -absorbeness and stuff. Yeah. 02:02:21.109 --> 02:02:24.750 Oh, that's interesting. That's interesting. Here's 02:02:24.750 --> 02:02:29.699 another one. You ready? Yes. Matt Stutzman. I 02:02:29.699 --> 02:02:33.760 recognize the name. Is a championship archer. 02:02:33.899 --> 02:02:36.979 Oh, yes. Who can outshoot most people who have 02:02:36.979 --> 02:02:40.239 ever wielded a bow and arrow. He's actually coached 02:02:40.239 --> 02:02:42.939 by my friend John Dudley. In competition. Yeah. 02:02:44.100 --> 02:02:46.699 By a bow and arrow in competition. He's also 02:02:46.699 --> 02:02:51.060 a car enthusiast. Oh. He was born without arms. 02:02:51.199 --> 02:02:54.420 Yes. He shoots his arrows and fixes his cars 02:02:54.420 --> 02:02:58.939 using his uncommonly nimble legs, feet, and toes. 02:02:59.560 --> 02:03:03.279 Is Matt Stutzman disabled? All I'm here to say 02:03:03.279 --> 02:03:08.239 is, because you started this conversation asking 02:03:08.239 --> 02:03:15.680 me on the spectrum of... autism, where at some 02:03:15.680 --> 02:03:18.619 point in that spectrum, you focus like no one 02:03:18.619 --> 02:03:22.039 can focus before, possibly to the exclusion of 02:03:22.039 --> 02:03:25.260 personal hygiene and other concerns related to 02:03:25.260 --> 02:03:29.100 your health. And civilization has definitely 02:03:29.100 --> 02:03:32.699 benefited from those who have been able to focus 02:03:32.699 --> 02:03:38.279 in such a way. So maybe our species and civil... 02:03:40.039 --> 02:03:42.840 spitballing here, that our species and the advance 02:03:42.840 --> 02:03:46.359 of civilization itself has pivoted on the fact 02:03:46.359 --> 02:03:48.560 that in the variation of who, what, and what 02:03:48.560 --> 02:03:54.140 we are, some of us can focus and solve a problem 02:03:54.140 --> 02:03:56.399 like it was the most important thing we would 02:03:56.399 --> 02:04:02.060 ever do in our lives and end up doing so, thereby 02:04:02.060 --> 02:04:07.159 pivoting civilization into some future that would 02:04:07.159 --> 02:04:11.399 have not otherwise been realizable. So, yeah, 02:04:11.539 --> 02:04:15.520 I'm all there. Yeah. I mean, the diversity of 02:04:15.520 --> 02:04:17.979 human beings and their interests and what they 02:04:17.979 --> 02:04:20.659 look like and their sizes and the way they interact 02:04:20.659 --> 02:04:23.420 with the world is one of the reasons why we can 02:04:23.420 --> 02:04:27.199 create such an amazing world. Consider also, 02:04:27.460 --> 02:04:30.760 and it goes beyond just this, what we call these 02:04:30.760 --> 02:04:32.979 disabled features, right? People with disabilities. 02:04:33.500 --> 02:04:37.140 It goes to other things. For example, you must 02:04:37.140 --> 02:04:42.340 know that it was not until 1987. Where the American 02:04:42.340 --> 02:04:45.539 Psychiatric Association, with some names such 02:04:45.539 --> 02:04:49.939 as that, but the psychiatrists, removed homosexuality 02:04:49.939 --> 02:04:54.539 as a mental disorder from their records, from 02:04:54.539 --> 02:04:59.479 their encyclopedia. 1987. Yeah. A disorder. And 02:04:59.479 --> 02:05:04.500 so what does that even mean if whatever the number 02:05:04.500 --> 02:05:08.300 is, 10, 20 percent of people or higher are on 02:05:08.300 --> 02:05:11.119 a gender spectrum? as measured in the multiple 02:05:11.119 --> 02:05:15.319 dimensions that have been revealed in recent 02:05:15.319 --> 02:05:21.760 years, if you had control over the genome of 02:05:21.760 --> 02:05:27.600 your children 50 years ago, and if homosexuality 02:05:27.600 --> 02:05:30.520 has a genetic component, would you say, I don't 02:05:30.520 --> 02:05:32.680 want that. That's abnormal because you're going 02:05:32.680 --> 02:05:35.560 to go through that list of what is normal. And 02:05:35.560 --> 02:05:37.460 you can say, I don't want any abnormalities in 02:05:37.460 --> 02:05:42.239 my children. Not at all. So there's an entire 02:05:42.239 --> 02:05:47.220 ethical frontier that is yet to be touched, yet 02:05:47.220 --> 02:05:49.439 to be resolved, I should say. Certainly there 02:05:49.439 --> 02:05:52.979 are people thinking about it. Yes. What kind 02:05:52.979 --> 02:05:56.100 of child are you going to create? Well, this 02:05:56.100 --> 02:05:59.539 is the question. When you have, and this is what 02:05:59.539 --> 02:06:01.520 I wanted to get to, when you have things like 02:06:01.520 --> 02:06:08.000 CRISPR and you have what could be... Legitimate 02:06:08.000 --> 02:06:12.460 genetic engineering of fetuses and of embryos. 02:06:12.460 --> 02:06:14.880 Legitimate, you mean authentic. Yeah. Legitimate 02:06:14.880 --> 02:06:17.140 implies it's - Yeah. I mean, like they can do 02:06:17.140 --> 02:06:18.880 it. Sanctioned, yes. I mean, not sanctioned. 02:06:18.880 --> 02:06:22.399 But the fact that that is an emerging technology 02:06:22.399 --> 02:06:26.239 and that, like all technologies, it will increase 02:06:26.239 --> 02:06:29.840 in its ability with innovation, with new versions. 02:06:30.539 --> 02:06:32.579 Where do you think this goes? Do you think it's 02:06:32.579 --> 02:06:34.920 inevitable that human beings engineer ourselves 02:06:34.920 --> 02:06:38.239 into these super creatures that are homogenous? 02:06:38.439 --> 02:06:43.680 Do you think? I think we, as has almost always 02:06:43.680 --> 02:06:47.020 been the case, the science is advancing faster 02:06:47.020 --> 02:06:55.140 than our morality. Yes. Or our. Sensibilities. 02:06:55.220 --> 02:06:58.260 Or appreciations of humanity. You know, and often 02:06:58.260 --> 02:07:01.399 the scientific advance has very important plus 02:07:01.399 --> 02:07:03.560 sides to it. Here's what I want to see happen. 02:07:03.680 --> 02:07:06.560 If we can control the genome, let's just start 02:07:06.560 --> 02:07:08.699 with what already exists in nature. All right? 02:07:08.760 --> 02:07:11.260 We put ourselves at the top of the tree of life. 02:07:11.460 --> 02:07:16.420 But if newts could draw the tree of life, they 02:07:16.420 --> 02:07:19.920 put themselves at the top. Why? They can regenerate 02:07:19.920 --> 02:07:24.970 their limbs. And we can't. They would value that 02:07:24.970 --> 02:07:27.369 very highly. So would we. Let's get whatever 02:07:27.369 --> 02:07:30.470 that is in the newt, splice it into us, line 02:07:30.470 --> 02:07:34.750 up all the veterans who have, you know, missing 02:07:34.750 --> 02:07:39.109 limbs, put them first. Regenerate them. If lobsters 02:07:39.109 --> 02:07:42.989 can do it and crabs can do it and newts can do 02:07:42.989 --> 02:07:45.289 it. They are doing research on that, correct? 02:07:45.489 --> 02:07:49.289 I haven't checked it. I believe I read. I would 02:07:49.289 --> 02:07:54.070 hope so. But we're doing research on... growing 02:07:54.070 --> 02:07:57.090 organs. Yes. There's a huge need for that. Yes. 02:07:57.270 --> 02:07:59.050 You don't have to wait for someone to die. Right. 02:07:59.170 --> 02:08:02.750 Particularly the day we have self -driving cars 02:08:02.750 --> 02:08:07.390 on the road dominating the population of cars. 02:08:07.529 --> 02:08:09.850 I see that happening within decades, by the way, 02:08:09.869 --> 02:08:11.909 and I have good reason for thinking that. But 02:08:11.909 --> 02:08:15.550 the day that happens, we lose. So no longer do 02:08:15.550 --> 02:08:19.710 35 ,000 people a year die. Peak physical health 02:08:19.710 --> 02:08:23.149 which has been a source of so many organs organ 02:08:23.149 --> 02:08:25.630 donors, right? Yes, you sign your card when you 02:08:25.630 --> 02:08:27.350 get your driver's license so that when you die 02:08:27.350 --> 02:08:29.250 in a car accident We can harvest your organs. 02:08:29.609 --> 02:08:32.310 You're young and all your organs work. We don't 02:08:32.310 --> 02:08:35.529 harness harness organs Harvest organs of 80 year 02:08:35.529 --> 02:08:38.329 olds because they're 80 or 90 right right so 02:08:39.439 --> 02:08:42.920 The day we lose the 35 ,000 deaths per year, 02:08:43.079 --> 02:08:45.800 I hope that happens at a time when we can start 02:08:45.800 --> 02:08:48.739 growing artificial organs. Have you done any 02:08:48.739 --> 02:08:52.380 playing around with auto driving features on 02:08:52.380 --> 02:08:56.399 things like Teslas? I know it's there, but I'm 02:08:56.399 --> 02:09:00.779 not mentally ready. It's pretty amazing. Jamie 02:09:00.779 --> 02:09:05.300 and I have the latest beta of Tesla self -driving. 02:09:05.399 --> 02:09:08.859 Have you messed with it at all, Jamie? Yeah, 02:09:08.859 --> 02:09:11.720 yeah, yeah, yeah. What's your take on it? I had 02:09:11.720 --> 02:09:13.979 someone drive me around with it in the beta. 02:09:14.479 --> 02:09:19.859 It's not comfortable yet is the best I would 02:09:19.859 --> 02:09:21.819 say. You keep your hands on the wheel? Yeah, 02:09:21.819 --> 02:09:23.739 yeah, yeah. Yeah, me too. Yeah, yeah. And I haven't 02:09:23.739 --> 02:09:25.340 had to take over, but there was like one time 02:09:25.340 --> 02:09:27.020 I was like, well, I'm not doing this right now. 02:09:27.180 --> 02:09:29.000 I'll test it another time. Here's what I did 02:09:29.000 --> 02:09:33.720 do in a Tesla. You put it on the... Self -driving? 02:09:34.199 --> 02:09:36.659 It's not self -driving. Auto... No, just the 02:09:36.659 --> 02:09:39.609 simple... What's it called? All the old cars 02:09:39.609 --> 02:09:42.649 had it. Yeah, cruise control. But it's managed 02:09:42.649 --> 02:09:45.949 cruise control, right? So I put it at 50 miles 02:09:45.949 --> 02:09:47.970 an hour. The traffic slows to 30. It slows to 02:09:47.970 --> 02:09:51.350 30 with a prescribed car distance in front of 02:09:51.350 --> 02:09:54.229 me. The traffic goes to a standstill. The car 02:09:54.229 --> 02:09:57.390 stops, all right? The traffic picks up. The old 02:09:57.390 --> 02:09:59.689 cars wouldn't do that, right? Right. So it's 02:09:59.689 --> 02:10:02.449 doing this. So I experiment with that. And I 02:10:02.449 --> 02:10:06.329 noticed that when it starts from a stop or when 02:10:06.329 --> 02:10:10.369 it slows down, it's way, Harder on its brakes 02:10:10.369 --> 02:10:14.090 than I am. Yes. I'm way smoother driver than 02:10:14.090 --> 02:10:17.250 my cruise control Yeah, so and I've seen cars 02:10:17.250 --> 02:10:20.750 come in from the side and it abruptly stops when 02:10:20.750 --> 02:10:25.010 I saw it before it did and and so so i don't 02:10:25.010 --> 02:10:27.210 know but we're at the beginning judgment it's 02:10:27.210 --> 02:10:29.890 dawn it's the dawn of this but you're recognizing 02:10:29.890 --> 02:10:32.470 patterns and judgment and whether or not someone's 02:10:32.470 --> 02:10:34.369 paying attention whether or not it's all that 02:10:34.369 --> 02:10:36.210 has to happen is that it goes into an ai learning 02:10:36.210 --> 02:10:39.329 mode and it gets the sum of all of these experiences 02:10:39.329 --> 02:10:42.810 of all drivers in in in these situations yeah 02:10:42.810 --> 02:10:45.149 ai is going to kill some people in self -driving 02:10:45.149 --> 02:10:47.510 mode but i guarantee you it's going to kill a 02:10:47.510 --> 02:10:49.949 lot less it will kill fewer people yeah than 02:10:52.440 --> 02:10:55.180 than without it. Have you seen Lex Friedman playing 02:10:55.180 --> 02:10:57.239 guitar while he's driving around in a self -driving 02:10:57.239 --> 02:11:00.479 car? Yeah, Lex drove around in a Tesla while 02:11:00.479 --> 02:11:04.159 playing guitar. It's pretty fascinating. Right, 02:11:04.239 --> 02:11:09.039 so there's a headline here, and that I'm going 02:11:09.039 --> 02:11:12.760 to read to a very simple headline, but where 02:11:12.760 --> 02:11:18.840 is it here? T -E... Oh, my gosh, where is it? 02:11:18.859 --> 02:11:29.500 There it is. There's Lex. Oh. That's pretty good. 02:11:31.000 --> 02:11:35.119 Lex can shred. Give me some of that. You got 02:11:35.119 --> 02:11:44.300 to listen to this. Listen to this. Oh, yeah. 02:11:44.380 --> 02:11:45.760 He was playing along. Here it goes. That's good. 02:11:45.880 --> 02:11:55.880 It's good stuff. Listen to here. Have you done 02:11:55.880 --> 02:11:59.340 Lex's podcast? No. You would love him. He's an 02:11:59.340 --> 02:12:04.220 AI researcher from MIT originally. Now he's mostly 02:12:04.220 --> 02:12:06.979 doing independent work and doing his own podcast. 02:12:08.199 --> 02:12:11.500 Brilliant, brilliant guy. You would love him. 02:12:11.859 --> 02:12:16.220 And he's got an amazing podcast, too. Okay, so 02:12:16.220 --> 02:12:17.640 here. It's going to be in this section here. 02:12:17.659 --> 02:12:19.079 I don't think you're interested in Lex's podcast. 02:12:20.520 --> 02:12:23.020 Seems like he's not paying attention. No, hang 02:12:23.020 --> 02:12:28.399 on. I got this. No, thank you for the tip. I'm 02:12:28.399 --> 02:12:30.439 trying to get him on, buddy. I'm trying to get 02:12:30.439 --> 02:12:34.260 him on. Lex actually is one of the most brilliant 02:12:34.260 --> 02:12:36.979 people I know. I think you would love talking 02:12:36.979 --> 02:12:42.560 to him. We have an interesting quote here from 02:12:42.560 --> 02:12:45.800 Walter Badshot. One of the greatest pains to 02:12:45.800 --> 02:12:50.020 human nature is the pain of a new idea. Really? 02:12:50.659 --> 02:12:53.500 That guy's an idiot. That's not the greatest 02:12:53.500 --> 02:12:54.840 pain. Someone needs to kick him in the nuts. 02:12:55.699 --> 02:12:58.340 It's human nature. The pain of loss, the pain 02:12:58.340 --> 02:13:01.600 of failure. There's a lot more pains. New ideas 02:13:01.600 --> 02:13:03.880 are amazing. The longer quote I have here, just 02:13:03.880 --> 02:13:08.340 in all fairness to the fellow, is, it is, as 02:13:08.340 --> 02:13:12.020 common people say, so upsetting, it makes you 02:13:12.020 --> 02:13:15.159 think that, after all, your favorite notions 02:13:15.159 --> 02:13:18.619 may be wrong, your firmest beliefs ill -founded. 02:13:19.500 --> 02:13:22.859 Naturally, therefore, Common men hate a new idea 02:13:22.859 --> 02:13:27.180 and are disposed, more or less, to ill -treat 02:13:27.180 --> 02:13:31.500 the original man who brings it. Oh, boy. Now 02:13:31.500 --> 02:13:34.560 we're in the common man thing. All right. That's 02:13:34.560 --> 02:13:36.979 19th century. I like that even less. All right. 02:13:37.000 --> 02:13:40.560 Here's a headline. Ready? Mm -hmm. And it's why 02:13:40.560 --> 02:13:44.380 our brain is not statistically prepared. A headline. 02:13:44.579 --> 02:13:49.960 Okay. Tesla says autopilots. Autopilot makes 02:13:49.960 --> 02:13:58.319 its car safer. Crash victims say it kills. Both 02:13:58.319 --> 02:14:02.560 of those are true. Yeah, but less. It's sort 02:14:02.560 --> 02:14:05.159 of like introducing mountain lions into areas 02:14:05.159 --> 02:14:08.100 to kill deer. Correct. Yeah. Both of those are 02:14:08.100 --> 02:14:14.689 true. And if you keep at it, yes. AI self -driving 02:14:14.689 --> 02:14:16.770 will kill people, but that number will drop every 02:14:16.770 --> 02:14:18.590 single year. And you know why? Because every 02:14:18.590 --> 02:14:21.930 way that someone dies, no other person will die 02:14:21.930 --> 02:14:24.069 that way again because they'll upload all the 02:14:24.069 --> 02:14:27.810 software, and that does not happen. This is what 02:14:27.810 --> 02:14:32.470 the airline industry did. The FAA investigates 02:14:32.470 --> 02:14:36.149 every single crash. You know why you can't take 02:14:36.149 --> 02:14:38.329 lithium ions onto a plane? Because there was 02:14:38.329 --> 02:14:42.329 a UPS plane that had lithium ion batteries in 02:14:42.329 --> 02:14:46.649 the cargo and it caught fire. And there's the 02:14:46.649 --> 02:14:51.189 audio of the pilots talking to each other and 02:14:51.189 --> 02:14:54.229 to the thing while the plane is on fire just 02:14:54.229 --> 02:14:56.010 before the thing crashes. Do you remember when 02:14:56.010 --> 02:14:57.630 they used to make you take the batteries out 02:14:57.630 --> 02:15:00.510 of Samsung phones when you got on planes? I never 02:15:00.510 --> 02:15:03.340 used a Samsung phone. Samsung phones had an issue. 02:15:03.420 --> 02:15:07.239 One of their Galaxy Notes burst into flames because 02:15:07.239 --> 02:15:10.039 they juiced up the battery capacity. I remember 02:15:10.039 --> 02:15:12.539 it. Yeah. Yeah, and they went a little too far, 02:15:12.739 --> 02:15:16.779 went a little crazy. So all I'm saying is that 02:15:16.779 --> 02:15:19.899 part of the diversity of who and what we are 02:15:19.899 --> 02:15:25.020 is who you love, what you want to look like. 02:15:25.720 --> 02:15:31.630 This resistance to the gender spectrum. concerns 02:15:31.630 --> 02:15:36.369 me because it's a force of restriction on people's 02:15:36.369 --> 02:15:41.989 freedom. And somewhere I read that America is 02:15:41.989 --> 02:15:44.550 like pursuit of happiness. I read that somewhere, 02:15:44.770 --> 02:15:50.270 some document, right? And so if someone wants 02:15:50.270 --> 02:15:53.590 to dress in whatever way they want, and if it 02:15:53.590 --> 02:16:00.010 doesn't conform with your binarity, You're going 02:16:00.010 --> 02:16:02.149 to create a law to prevent them from doing it? 02:16:02.489 --> 02:16:05.770 What is that? Are we any longer in a free country? 02:16:06.250 --> 02:16:10.430 If you have that power over me to express my 02:16:10.430 --> 02:16:14.810 happiness. And another thing we're not good at, 02:16:15.229 --> 02:16:19.770 and I got to go soon. How long have we been talking 02:16:19.770 --> 02:16:23.569 here, dude? A couple hours. Damn. Dude. Come 02:16:23.569 --> 02:16:25.510 on. This is fun. But I love you, man. I love 02:16:25.510 --> 02:16:27.350 you, too. I love you, man. I love you. I love 02:16:27.350 --> 02:16:31.720 you, too, man. People don't know, we were outside 02:16:31.720 --> 02:16:35.079 wrestling a few moves. I used to wrestle. I know 02:16:35.079 --> 02:16:36.659 you used to wrestle. I was like captain of my 02:16:36.659 --> 02:16:37.600 high school team. You started to have a little 02:16:37.600 --> 02:16:42.659 flashback. No! It was the third period. I was 02:16:42.659 --> 02:16:45.399 down four points. Uh -oh. Yeah, yeah. The buzzer. 02:16:46.819 --> 02:16:52.399 So, what was I saying? We were talking about 02:16:52.399 --> 02:16:53.639 diversity. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We were talking 02:16:53.639 --> 02:16:57.030 about... Yeah, yeah. So... Here's another thing 02:16:57.030 --> 02:17:01.049 we're bad at. We're bad at recognizing a spectrum 02:17:01.049 --> 02:17:04.770 of things when we confront it. Our urge is to 02:17:04.770 --> 02:17:08.889 categorize it. That urge is so great. We categorize 02:17:08.889 --> 02:17:11.450 things that are fundamentally not categorizable. 02:17:11.569 --> 02:17:15.389 For example, hurricane strengths. Hurricane strength 02:17:15.389 --> 02:17:21.209 is a continuum of miles per hour of wind speed. 02:17:23.500 --> 02:17:26.520 Cut it into five categories. And you know what 02:17:26.520 --> 02:17:28.920 happens? That affects us. Right. So a hurricane, 02:17:29.059 --> 02:17:31.639 Hurricane Irma, goes from low Category 3 to high 02:17:31.639 --> 02:17:33.940 Category 3. They're just, oh, it's just Category 02:17:33.940 --> 02:17:37.959 3, Irma. It goes up one mile an hour? It's breaking 02:17:37.959 --> 02:17:41.620 news. Hurricane Irma strengthened to Category 02:17:41.620 --> 02:17:44.799 4 just this past hour, and everybody crowds around 02:17:44.799 --> 02:17:49.639 the TV set. So our brain doesn't allow a continuum. 02:17:50.180 --> 02:17:54.370 We can't. So what happens? Are you a boy or are 02:17:54.370 --> 02:17:56.270 you a girl? You have to be one of them. Maybe 02:17:56.270 --> 02:17:59.209 there's a continuum. Okay. Oh, you want to talk 02:17:59.209 --> 02:18:01.829 X chromosome, Y chromosome? We can do that. Fine. 02:18:02.909 --> 02:18:08.229 All right. So biogenetically, I can say that 02:18:08.229 --> 02:18:10.610 there's a boy and a girl or some variant on that, 02:18:10.670 --> 02:18:13.649 which is in the rare case where you have doubled 02:18:13.649 --> 02:18:17.250 up on the chromosomes. Intersex. Sure, we can 02:18:17.250 --> 02:18:20.370 have that conversation, but that's not visible 02:18:20.370 --> 02:18:23.860 to me. In what you do when you wake up in the 02:18:23.860 --> 02:18:26.219 morning. I don't see your chromosomes. You know 02:18:26.219 --> 02:18:29.479 what I do? I see what you do to make yourself 02:18:29.479 --> 02:18:33.299 look like a boy. You go to the gym. You'd have 02:18:33.299 --> 02:18:36.680 wimp muscles if you didn't work out. Okay? That's 02:18:36.680 --> 02:18:38.940 what you do because you're a boy. You wear boy 02:18:38.940 --> 02:18:41.219 clothes so that everyone knows you're a boy. 02:18:42.180 --> 02:18:44.780 If it was that obvious you were a boy, you wouldn't 02:18:44.780 --> 02:18:48.440 have to do all of that. So, so much of what we 02:18:48.440 --> 02:18:54.350 do. to split us into this binarity is artificially 02:18:54.350 --> 02:19:01.120 added on top of the chromosomes. So... Like I 02:19:01.120 --> 02:19:04.600 said, if you're a wimpy guy and you go wear man's 02:19:04.600 --> 02:19:06.479 clothes and you go to the gym because you want 02:19:06.479 --> 02:19:08.860 to look like a boy. If you're a girl, you're 02:19:08.860 --> 02:19:11.020 a woman, and you have hair on your lip, can't 02:19:11.020 --> 02:19:13.020 have a mustache, you're a girl. Got hair between 02:19:13.020 --> 02:19:14.600 your eyebrows, can't have that, got to remove 02:19:14.600 --> 02:19:17.059 that. Okay? Your breasts are not large enough, 02:19:17.139 --> 02:19:20.059 get them enlarged. As what happens to, what is 02:19:20.059 --> 02:19:23.799 the number? 300 ,000 breast augmentations a year 02:19:23.799 --> 02:19:27.579 in the United States. Okay? These are huge numbers 02:19:27.579 --> 02:19:31.260 to make us look more to fit into this binarity. 02:19:31.420 --> 02:19:34.120 And suppose I don't buy into that binarity. I 02:19:34.120 --> 02:19:37.319 say I like the spectrum. Someday I feel a little 02:19:37.319 --> 02:19:39.180 feminine. Sometimes I feel I'm not going to wear 02:19:39.180 --> 02:19:40.780 clothes that way. You're going to come after 02:19:40.780 --> 02:19:42.760 me and say I don't like that. I'm going to pass 02:19:42.760 --> 02:19:45.899 a law. Oh, my gosh. That's no longer a free country. 02:19:46.059 --> 02:19:47.780 Is anybody saying that you should pass a law 02:19:47.780 --> 02:19:50.120 that men can't wear whatever they want or women 02:19:50.120 --> 02:19:52.579 can't wear whatever they want? There are forces 02:19:52.579 --> 02:19:55.280 of resistance in society that are strongly preventing 02:19:55.280 --> 02:19:59.969 it. Yes. Well, I think that's unfortunate. And 02:19:59.969 --> 02:20:01.670 by the way, some solutions, like which bathroom 02:20:01.670 --> 02:20:04.010 do you use? There's solutions there. Just make 02:20:04.010 --> 02:20:06.729 unisex bathrooms. Every new restaurant in New 02:20:06.729 --> 02:20:09.969 York City is that. So that takes an entire category 02:20:09.969 --> 02:20:12.469 of people's worries and concerns off the table. 02:20:12.610 --> 02:20:14.670 When we're talking about genetic engineering. 02:20:14.889 --> 02:20:19.809 By the way, that's in the chapter gender and 02:20:19.809 --> 02:20:23.770 identity. And I didn't even get to color and 02:20:23.770 --> 02:20:26.459 race. Oh, my gosh. Just before I go, I want to 02:20:26.459 --> 02:20:27.899 read a quick thing from that section. Please. 02:20:27.920 --> 02:20:30.500 Go ahead. No, no, no. Finish with your point. 02:20:30.559 --> 02:20:34.639 Mike, my wonder is, like, where, if you try to 02:20:34.639 --> 02:20:37.040 look at what human beings are capable of doing 02:20:37.040 --> 02:20:39.520 now in terms of genetic engineering and what 02:20:39.520 --> 02:20:42.040 the hopes are, where do you think this leads 02:20:42.040 --> 02:20:45.139 us if this is allowed? It's not whether or not 02:20:45.139 --> 02:20:46.459 it's going to be allowed. It's going to happen. 02:20:46.799 --> 02:20:49.799 Where do you think this leads us to? Do you think 02:20:49.799 --> 02:20:53.010 this leads? When you look at this is. When you 02:20:53.010 --> 02:20:56.809 look at the archetypal alien, what is it? It's 02:20:56.809 --> 02:21:01.510 got a large head and no sex organs. And they 02:21:01.510 --> 02:21:03.790 never have hair. I want a hairy alien one day. 02:21:03.809 --> 02:21:07.690 With a hairdo. Right. Yeah, right. They're always 02:21:07.690 --> 02:21:11.069 bald, big eyes. 1970 Afro. Yeah, yeah. What do 02:21:11.069 --> 02:21:13.389 you think that leads us to? Do you think that 02:21:13.389 --> 02:21:17.750 leads us to one uniform shape? Or do you think 02:21:17.750 --> 02:21:20.829 it leads us to everyone looking like Thor? Where 02:21:20.829 --> 02:21:23.739 does that lead us to? Yeah, but of course Thor 02:21:23.739 --> 02:21:26.280 still had to go to the gym. But what if there 02:21:26.280 --> 02:21:28.299 comes a point in time where that's not necessary? 02:21:28.579 --> 02:21:29.639 Sorry, the actor who plays Thor still had to 02:21:29.639 --> 02:21:31.600 go to the gym. Right, well, with things like 02:21:31.600 --> 02:21:33.940 biostatin inhibitors, you aware of those? Yeah, 02:21:34.020 --> 02:21:36.899 I am. Yeah, so if they incorporate that into 02:21:36.899 --> 02:21:39.379 the human genome, then you're going to have people 02:21:39.379 --> 02:21:41.299 that have incredible amounts of muscle mass, 02:21:41.500 --> 02:21:43.200 and they don't even have to do anything to achieve 02:21:43.200 --> 02:21:46.739 it. But what you would have done was, as a parent 02:21:46.739 --> 02:21:51.260 or as someone in control, predetermine. what 02:21:51.260 --> 02:21:55.000 they can or should be in life. Whereas in a free 02:21:55.000 --> 02:21:58.219 world, in a free society, a person's own ambitions 02:21:58.219 --> 02:22:02.079 should be what guides them, in my opinion. And 02:22:02.079 --> 02:22:03.700 I don't think that's a controversial opinion. 02:22:03.979 --> 02:22:06.780 Certainly. I agree with you. But my concern is... 02:22:06.780 --> 02:22:08.239 Yeah, it's a real concern. Oh, yeah. And if the 02:22:08.239 --> 02:22:11.260 technology gets to the point where it's a uniform 02:22:11.260 --> 02:22:14.780 strategy and that... people just start doing 02:22:14.780 --> 02:22:17.280 that to their children. We're talking 100 years 02:22:17.280 --> 02:22:19.200 from now, 1 ,000 years from now. Oh, way sooner 02:22:19.200 --> 02:22:21.479 than that, 50 years easily. Where does this go? 02:22:21.579 --> 02:22:23.459 Easily 50 years. Yeah, so you want to have the 02:22:23.459 --> 02:22:25.459 muscle -bound family, but suppose one of them 02:22:25.459 --> 02:22:27.520 wanted to be a ballet dancer and had to be a 02:22:27.520 --> 02:22:30.440 little more lanky and elegant. What if we get 02:22:30.440 --> 02:22:33.059 to a point where genetic engineering could be 02:22:33.059 --> 02:22:36.739 utilized on fully formed adults? And you could 02:22:36.739 --> 02:22:39.500 change the shape of, like, you know, there's 02:22:39.500 --> 02:22:41.440 people that are transgender. What if you could 02:22:41.440 --> 02:22:44.639 literally become a double X chromosome human 02:22:44.639 --> 02:22:48.920 being and you will literally have a vagina, literally 02:22:48.920 --> 02:22:51.000 have breasts, ovulate, have a womb? I don't know 02:22:51.000 --> 02:22:52.940 how that would, I have to think about how that 02:22:52.940 --> 02:22:55.540 would happen. That would be like an extreme limit 02:22:55.540 --> 02:23:00.700 of controlling your genomes. Yeah, so that's 02:23:00.700 --> 02:23:02.979 a really interesting different world. It means 02:23:02.979 --> 02:23:05.440 you can be whoever you want. Right. That's what 02:23:05.440 --> 02:23:07.319 we are on Halloween, right? You're wherever you 02:23:07.319 --> 02:23:09.120 want to be. What are your thoughts on human neural 02:23:09.120 --> 02:23:12.379 interfaces, like things like Neuralink and these 02:23:12.379 --> 02:23:15.219 technologies that are being proposed that would 02:23:15.219 --> 02:23:18.600 allow human beings to integrate with technology 02:23:18.600 --> 02:23:35.340 in a physical way, symbiotically? civilization, 02:23:35.459 --> 02:23:40.479 which is extraordinary. But most predictions 02:23:40.479 --> 02:23:43.840 are wrong. You get it right in the first few 02:23:43.840 --> 02:23:45.959 years and after a few decades. Well, with new 02:23:45.959 --> 02:23:48.639 technology, new possibilities emerge that couldn't 02:23:48.639 --> 02:23:50.899 even be anticipated. It comes in from the side. 02:23:50.899 --> 02:23:53.040 Yeah. Rather than... Like the internet. More 02:23:53.040 --> 02:23:56.440 of what... Correct. Correct. It reminds me of... 02:23:56.440 --> 02:24:01.510 There was an ad in 1990. 1902, 1903, early 90s 02:24:01.510 --> 02:24:03.809 from AT &T. They had a relatively successful 02:24:03.809 --> 02:24:06.850 ad campaign where they said, have you ever wanted 02:24:06.850 --> 02:24:08.409 to ba -di -da -di -da -di -da -di -da? And they 02:24:08.409 --> 02:24:10.649 say some futuristic thing. And they say, you 02:24:10.649 --> 02:24:13.610 will. AT &T will bring it to you. Yeah, I've 02:24:13.610 --> 02:24:15.989 seen that. One of the things, one of the commercials 02:24:15.989 --> 02:24:18.409 was something I've never wanted to do, never 02:24:18.409 --> 02:24:21.549 dreamed of doing, never did, and never will do. 02:24:22.110 --> 02:24:25.510 They show a guy on a beach, okay? And he's working 02:24:25.510 --> 02:24:27.969 on a tablet, which was a good... predictive thing. 02:24:28.030 --> 02:24:29.790 Tablets did come. He's looking at the tablet 02:24:29.790 --> 02:24:32.350 and said, have you, and there's a surf coming 02:24:32.350 --> 02:24:34.110 in. It was a beautiful beach scene. He said, 02:24:34.149 --> 02:24:38.049 have you ever wanted to send a fax from the beach? 02:24:38.549 --> 02:24:42.770 Well, you will. AT &T was like, no, thank you. 02:24:42.930 --> 02:24:45.569 No one has ever in the history of the universe 02:24:45.569 --> 02:24:49.790 wanted to do that. But why wouldn't they if that 02:24:49.790 --> 02:24:52.270 was all that existed? I'm just saying. Well, 02:24:52.270 --> 02:24:53.809 now it's email. It's the same thing. No, it's 02:24:53.809 --> 02:24:55.850 email attachment. Correct. Sure. But you don't 02:24:55.850 --> 02:24:57.930 see that coming if you're extolling the virtues 02:24:57.930 --> 02:25:01.309 of faxes. Right. That's like in Back to the Future 02:25:01.309 --> 02:25:05.409 Part 2. A film made in 1989. We're riding high 02:25:05.409 --> 02:25:09.389 on faxes. 89 to the early 90s. Do you know what 02:25:09.389 --> 02:25:11.450 year that took place? Was supposed to take place? 02:25:11.729 --> 02:25:14.940 Back to the Future 2. It's like modern. Yeah, 02:25:14.940 --> 02:25:18.840 2015. Yeah. Okay. So Marty pisses off his boss 02:25:18.840 --> 02:25:20.659 and he gets fired. Yeah. All right. So the boss 02:25:20.659 --> 02:25:24.139 communicates this via fax. To his residence. 02:25:24.479 --> 02:25:27.120 Except this is the residence of the future. He 02:25:27.120 --> 02:25:30.959 has three fax machines in his home. So you see 02:25:30.959 --> 02:25:32.739 them come out on three different fax machines. 02:25:33.040 --> 02:25:35.319 And no matter what room he was in, he would see 02:25:35.319 --> 02:25:37.639 it. Because that's the home of the future. Because 02:25:37.639 --> 02:25:40.719 a modern home in 1989 with one fax machine, many 02:25:40.719 --> 02:25:44.079 homes had no fax machines. So this is how we're 02:25:44.079 --> 02:25:48.760 linear thinking people. You're fired. There are 02:25:48.760 --> 02:25:52.280 three different fax machines. That's the future. 02:25:52.750 --> 02:25:54.250 it is. That's what they thought. Isn't that funny? 02:25:54.430 --> 02:25:58.629 Oh, no. The future. Wow. And so I talk about 02:25:58.629 --> 02:26:01.129 here how we also have linear brains, which prevents 02:26:01.129 --> 02:26:04.209 us from seeing exponential change. Yes. And the 02:26:04.209 --> 02:26:09.049 best example of this is algae on a pond. Okay? 02:26:09.450 --> 02:26:11.690 So algae, you know, as it grows and it floats 02:26:11.690 --> 02:26:14.290 on the pond, you see like one square foot of 02:26:14.290 --> 02:26:18.510 it and you learn. Someone tells you the algae 02:26:18.510 --> 02:26:23.139 is doubling every day. And you have this huge 02:26:23.139 --> 02:26:26.500 pond and you're told this, okay? You go away 02:26:26.500 --> 02:26:30.219 for a month and come back, the pond is half covered 02:26:30.219 --> 02:26:35.059 with algae. They say, oh my gosh, I was away 02:26:35.059 --> 02:26:37.760 for a month and this happened. When will it be 02:26:37.760 --> 02:26:42.620 completely covered? So what's the answer? It 02:26:42.620 --> 02:26:44.840 took a month to get halfway. So how much more 02:26:44.840 --> 02:26:49.360 time? A week? No, a day. What did I say? Doubles. 02:26:49.420 --> 02:26:51.909 It doubles every day. Yes. That's how I started 02:26:51.909 --> 02:26:54.309 this conversation. Yes. See, the linear brain 02:26:54.309 --> 02:26:58.270 overrides even the stated facts. And you know 02:26:58.270 --> 02:27:00.290 how they deal with that? They introduce carp. 02:27:01.329 --> 02:27:03.329 Oh, good. I didn't know that. And carp eat all 02:27:03.329 --> 02:27:04.829 the algae. I didn't know that. Very good. Yeah, 02:27:04.829 --> 02:27:07.090 but then the problem is they eat all the vegetation 02:27:07.090 --> 02:27:09.950 and you get like Lake Austin. Oh, yeah. There's 02:27:09.950 --> 02:27:12.049 almost no vegetation and all the bass have no 02:27:12.049 --> 02:27:14.790 place to hide. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Lake 02:27:14.790 --> 02:27:16.889 Austin looks like the bottom of a swimming pool 02:27:16.889 --> 02:27:20.149 now. Interesting. Yeah, it's a mistake. Nothing 02:27:20.149 --> 02:27:22.610 there. Whoops. Yeah. You think you know all the 02:27:22.610 --> 02:27:25.090 causes and effects of things. and then you don't. 02:27:25.090 --> 02:27:28.190 Well, when I was on the Big Island, I found out 02:27:28.190 --> 02:27:30.629 about mongooses. Big Island, Hawaii. Yeah. Can 02:27:30.629 --> 02:27:32.670 we call them mongoose? Is that allowed? They're 02:27:32.670 --> 02:27:35.809 so adorable. We saw one at the resort, a mongoose. 02:27:35.850 --> 02:27:38.250 Cute little fella. But Hawaii has no snakes. 02:27:38.469 --> 02:27:40.969 So what do the mongoose eat? Unfortunately, they 02:27:40.969 --> 02:27:42.790 brought them in for rats, and they went after 02:27:42.790 --> 02:27:45.549 ground -nesting birds. And so they've devastated 02:27:45.549 --> 02:27:48.569 local wildlife. There it is. When you're an island 02:27:48.569 --> 02:27:50.670 in the middle of the Pacific, that stuff is pretty 02:27:50.670 --> 02:27:53.069 tightly configured. Those little fellas are so 02:27:53.069 --> 02:27:55.450 cute. Okay, the mongooses found in Hawaii are 02:27:55.450 --> 02:27:57.590 native to India. They were introduced to Hawaiian 02:27:57.590 --> 02:28:00.489 islands in 1883 by the sugar industry to control 02:28:00.489 --> 02:28:03.969 rats and sugar cane fields. Any species in Hawaii 02:28:03.969 --> 02:28:07.049 is going to be invasive. Yes. But then it gets 02:28:07.049 --> 02:28:09.229 to a point where people are making the argument 02:28:09.229 --> 02:28:11.489 that wild pigs are no longer invasive because 02:28:11.489 --> 02:28:12.969 they've been there as long as the humans have. 02:28:13.229 --> 02:28:16.590 Yeah, so it's only a problem when it's a problem 02:28:16.590 --> 02:28:19.950 is really what that comes down to. Right. I'm 02:28:19.950 --> 02:28:22.659 told that L .A. Palm trees are not native. Right, 02:28:22.680 --> 02:28:24.440 they're not. Yeah, but they do really well there, 02:28:24.520 --> 02:28:26.420 and they haven't overrun the city or anything. 02:28:26.639 --> 02:28:29.260 Well, also, they're symbolic of Los Angeles, 02:28:29.319 --> 02:28:31.479 the palm tree. Yeah, you got it. They're everywhere. 02:28:31.719 --> 02:28:35.260 Okay, so I make a prediction by the year 250. 02:28:35.459 --> 02:28:37.180 I have a bunch of predictions here. Okay, let's 02:28:37.180 --> 02:28:40.860 hear it. And this is so that in 2050, you can 02:28:40.860 --> 02:28:42.739 say, Tyson, you had your head up your ass, okay? 02:28:42.940 --> 02:28:45.479 I have no hesitation, because I go through a 02:28:45.479 --> 02:28:47.000 whole set of predictions that all didn't come 02:28:47.000 --> 02:28:49.600 out right. People predicting 30 years ahead. 02:28:50.219 --> 02:28:53.379 And so I just want to join the susceptibility 02:28:53.379 --> 02:28:56.799 parade here. Okay, maybe you'll nail a few. Neuroscience 02:28:56.799 --> 02:28:58.780 and our understanding of the human mind will 02:28:58.780 --> 02:29:01.420 become so advanced that mental illness will be 02:29:01.420 --> 02:29:04.420 cured, leaving psychologists and psychiatrists 02:29:04.420 --> 02:29:08.680 without jobs. In a shift that echoes the rapid 02:29:08.680 --> 02:29:11.379 conversion from horses to automobiles in the 02:29:11.379 --> 02:29:14.719 early 20th century, self -driving electric vehicles 02:29:14.719 --> 02:29:18.299 will fully replace all cars and trucks on the 02:29:18.299 --> 02:29:21.299 road. If you want to be nostalgic with your fancy 02:29:21.299 --> 02:29:23.860 combustion engine sports car, you can drive on 02:29:23.860 --> 02:29:27.159 specially designed tracks akin to horse riding 02:29:27.159 --> 02:29:31.819 stables of today. Very nostalgic. The human space 02:29:31.819 --> 02:29:34.360 program will fully transition to a space industry 02:29:34.360 --> 02:29:37.520 supported not by tax dollars, but by tourism 02:29:37.520 --> 02:29:40.739 and anything else people dream of doing in space. 02:29:41.659 --> 02:29:45.280 We develop a perfect antiviral serum and cure 02:29:45.280 --> 02:29:49.540 cancer. Medicines will tailor to your own DNA, 02:29:49.719 --> 02:29:53.899 leaving no adverse side effects. And this is 02:29:53.899 --> 02:29:56.680 in response to your earlier question. We will 02:29:56.680 --> 02:30:00.899 resist the urge to merge the circuitry of computers 02:30:00.899 --> 02:30:05.440 with the circuitry of our brains. Have you ever 02:30:05.440 --> 02:30:06.979 seen the statistics? I'm happy enough to just 02:30:06.979 --> 02:30:09.840 dig it up here. No, I don't need to surgically 02:30:09.840 --> 02:30:13.180 implant this. I'm seconds away from all the knowledge 02:30:13.180 --> 02:30:15.659 of the world that I could possibly want. I don't 02:30:15.659 --> 02:30:18.129 have to surgically implant it. I'm not. I don't 02:30:18.129 --> 02:30:20.370 have that urge. I'm sorry. Right, but if they 02:30:20.370 --> 02:30:23.250 do increase the capacity for human knowledge 02:30:23.250 --> 02:30:25.069 and your access to information substantially 02:30:25.069 --> 02:30:27.229 to the point where someone with a neural interface 02:30:27.229 --> 02:30:29.370 has an enormous advantage over anybody who doesn't. 02:30:29.370 --> 02:30:31.170 Well, they'll do it faster, perhaps. But not 02:30:31.170 --> 02:30:33.909 just faster, but change the way you interface 02:30:33.909 --> 02:30:36.309 with information. That remains to be seen. And, 02:30:36.309 --> 02:30:39.110 of course, our guy says that, Mr. Singularity. 02:30:39.149 --> 02:30:41.469 No, no. Oh, Ray Kurzweil? Ray Kurzweil, right. 02:30:42.190 --> 02:30:45.149 He's a big fan of that. Here's a new book where 02:30:45.149 --> 02:30:51.059 it's... The singularity is nearer. His first 02:30:51.059 --> 02:30:52.780 book was The Singularity Was Near. What a prediction. 02:30:53.079 --> 02:30:56.500 We will learn how to regrow lost limbs and failing 02:30:56.500 --> 02:30:59.520 organs, bringing us up to the level of other 02:30:59.520 --> 02:31:02.620 regenerating animals on Earth, like salamanders, 02:31:02.639 --> 02:31:07.479 starfish, and lobsters. Instead of becoming our 02:31:07.479 --> 02:31:10.659 overlord and enslaving us all, artificial intelligence 02:31:10.659 --> 02:31:13.739 will be just another helpful feature of the tech 02:31:13.739 --> 02:31:16.620 infrastructures that serve our daily lives. Those 02:31:16.620 --> 02:31:19.139 are my predictions to be found wrong. Do you 02:31:19.139 --> 02:31:21.680 have any fears of artificial general intelligence? 02:31:22.000 --> 02:31:23.840 No. Not at all? I don't think that's where it's 02:31:23.840 --> 02:31:25.659 going to head. Neither does Kurzweil, by the 02:31:25.659 --> 02:31:27.870 way. Do you believe— I think we'll put intelligence 02:31:27.870 --> 02:31:30.309 in things that need to do things. Get the perfect 02:31:30.309 --> 02:31:32.770 cup of coffee. Put it in your car so it drives 02:31:32.770 --> 02:31:35.069 and doesn't get in an accident. Put it in things. 02:31:35.389 --> 02:31:37.350 To have the one thing that does it all, I don't— 02:31:37.350 --> 02:31:39.069 I would love to hear you talk to Elon about this 02:31:39.069 --> 02:31:42.569 because he has a deep fear of it. Yeah. I'm anomalous 02:31:42.569 --> 02:31:44.049 there, so don't listen to me. Listen to others. 02:31:44.530 --> 02:31:46.069 You're anomalous in the fact that you're not 02:31:46.069 --> 02:31:49.690 concerned? Yes. If you go to AI experts, most 02:31:49.690 --> 02:31:51.909 of them are concerned that it poses an existential 02:31:51.909 --> 02:31:55.010 threat. I think it'll just be more stuff. That'll 02:31:55.010 --> 02:31:56.770 help us out. But what about when it's used in 02:31:56.770 --> 02:31:59.190 military applications? Well, that isn't ethical. 02:31:59.350 --> 02:32:01.649 I mean, all military operations involve some 02:32:01.649 --> 02:32:06.010 ethical decision tree. Right. So it would be 02:32:06.010 --> 02:32:07.690 added to the ethical decision tree. But when 02:32:07.690 --> 02:32:11.129 you have unethical foreign countries that will 02:32:11.129 --> 02:32:13.610 use these sort of artificial generals. Well, 02:32:13.610 --> 02:32:15.209 that's tank, anti -tank warfare. So you need 02:32:15.209 --> 02:32:19.529 ways to combat that. Yeah. It'll escalate. By 02:32:19.529 --> 02:32:21.649 the way, the countries have ministers of AI. 02:32:21.850 --> 02:32:24.270 We don't. We're behind on that curve. I'm worried. 02:32:24.909 --> 02:32:27.329 Worried about that. That's the concern, right? 02:32:27.370 --> 02:32:28.790 The concern is that someone else is going to 02:32:28.790 --> 02:32:31.610 implement it and they're not going to have ethics 02:32:31.610 --> 02:32:33.170 or morals behind it. They're just going to have 02:32:33.170 --> 02:32:35.110 this idea of control and dominance. Correct. 02:32:35.149 --> 02:32:37.530 And so there's always the bad actor that you've 02:32:37.530 --> 02:32:42.489 got to – and the military, they're paid to consider 02:32:42.489 --> 02:32:44.709 the conduct of a bad actor. And the real concern 02:32:44.709 --> 02:32:49.610 is that we become them to beat them. That's the 02:32:49.610 --> 02:32:54.030 fear. Yeah. Except we're not autocratic or we 02:32:54.030 --> 02:32:59.229 don't think we are. So we would have to get an 02:32:59.229 --> 02:33:03.030 entire Congress, an entire electorate to vote 02:33:03.030 --> 02:33:06.889 that way. Yeah. And that's – if we do, I don't 02:33:06.889 --> 02:33:09.069 know what the future of the world will be at 02:33:09.069 --> 02:33:10.549 that point. It's spooky. It's spooky because, 02:33:10.750 --> 02:33:13.729 again, we don't have the ability to sort of extrapolate 02:33:13.729 --> 02:33:16.110 and look at the future in terms of like how all 02:33:16.110 --> 02:33:20.450 these things are implemented and what the – overall 02:33:20.450 --> 02:33:25.049 result is going to be. So you're not worried 02:33:25.049 --> 02:33:27.750 about these human neural interfaces at all? No, 02:33:27.870 --> 02:33:29.790 I don't see it happening. You don't see it happening 02:33:29.790 --> 02:33:33.110 at all? No, I think we'll resist it. But didn't 02:33:33.110 --> 02:33:35.110 we, there's a lot of people that resisted email. 02:33:35.469 --> 02:33:37.549 Like, I don't even have email, man. Those people 02:33:37.549 --> 02:33:39.750 all got on board. A lot of people resisted cell 02:33:39.750 --> 02:33:43.020 phones. They print it and then read the printed 02:33:43.020 --> 02:33:46.379 email. Yeah. But a lot of people resisted this 02:33:46.379 --> 02:33:48.360 idea of cell phones, but now they're everywhere. 02:33:48.620 --> 02:33:51.540 No, the only resistance I'm referring about is 02:33:51.540 --> 02:33:54.500 the machine biology interface. Right. That's 02:33:54.500 --> 02:33:55.459 what we're going to resist. We're not going to 02:33:55.459 --> 02:33:57.659 resist the continued advance of the technology. 02:33:57.700 --> 02:34:00.420 But if it creates a superior human being. It 02:34:00.420 --> 02:34:03.340 already has. It beats us at chess, at go, at 02:34:03.340 --> 02:34:06.079 any intellectual task we give it. It's already 02:34:06.079 --> 02:34:08.940 superior. But I mean if it's a symbiotic thing, 02:34:09.059 --> 02:34:11.340 if it becomes integrated with the human biology. 02:34:11.340 --> 02:34:13.540 I think we'll resist that. That's all. It's a 02:34:13.540 --> 02:34:15.059 prediction. I think you will. I'm going to hop 02:34:15.059 --> 02:34:17.200 on board right away. I'm going to be one of the 02:34:17.200 --> 02:34:19.459 first people. I'm going to drill a hole in my 02:34:19.459 --> 02:34:22.079 head, Elon. Let's go. Implant it. I don't want 02:34:22.079 --> 02:34:24.780 to be left behind. Okay. Well, the real concern 02:34:24.780 --> 02:34:26.440 is that it's really going to separate the haves 02:34:26.440 --> 02:34:28.120 from the have -nots because if it does give you 02:34:28.120 --> 02:34:30.780 an advantage economically, an advantage in terms 02:34:30.780 --> 02:34:34.000 of your intellectual capacity, you're going to 02:34:34.000 --> 02:34:35.819 have this advantage because it's going to be 02:34:35.819 --> 02:34:38.020 prohibitively expensive, I would assume, initially. 02:34:38.040 --> 02:34:40.440 Often things that are prohibitively expensive 02:34:40.440 --> 02:34:43.649 initially don't. Forever stay that way. Like 02:34:43.649 --> 02:34:45.430 cell phones. Of course. But eventually it becomes. 02:34:45.510 --> 02:34:47.729 Or flat panel TVs. Sure. They're like impulse 02:34:47.729 --> 02:34:50.850 items at Kmart. I was just at Walmart. I can't 02:34:50.850 --> 02:34:53.110 believe how cheap they are now. 50 inch TV. It's 02:34:53.110 --> 02:34:56.049 nuts. It's nuts. It's crazy. They were so expensive. 02:34:56.069 --> 02:34:59.250 I remember. And heavy. Like 20 grand. Yes. Tens 02:34:59.250 --> 02:35:01.190 of thousands of dollars. And they'd come in like 02:35:01.190 --> 02:35:03.989 wood crates. Yep. Yep. And now you can. You needed 02:35:03.989 --> 02:35:06.069 power tools to undo it. You can do it yourself 02:35:06.069 --> 02:35:09.350 and mount them yourself on the wall. Let me leave 02:35:09.350 --> 02:35:11.190 you with some thoughts here. Okay. Please do. 02:35:11.709 --> 02:35:14.649 There's a section here on race and color, which 02:35:14.649 --> 02:35:16.930 is another thing with the variation of what we 02:35:16.930 --> 02:35:19.049 have in the world. Just a point I want to make. 02:35:19.250 --> 02:35:22.309 When European anthropologists started running 02:35:22.309 --> 02:35:24.950 through Africa and started describing what they 02:35:24.950 --> 02:35:29.850 saw, their urge was to say everyone in Africa 02:35:29.850 --> 02:35:32.469 is this thing. And they have dark skin, woolly 02:35:32.469 --> 02:35:36.489 hair, and that is a thing. And they called it 02:35:36.489 --> 02:35:38.809 a race, and they called it the Negroes. Okay? 02:35:39.709 --> 02:35:44.469 And this is our attempt to classify into few 02:35:44.469 --> 02:35:47.430 categories something that might actually in real 02:35:47.430 --> 02:35:52.770 life be on a spectrum. We know that the human 02:35:52.770 --> 02:35:57.969 species began in Africa. And everybody who populates 02:35:57.969 --> 02:36:00.629 everywhere else in the world came out of Africa 02:36:00.629 --> 02:36:06.670 to do that. What that tells you is that the genetic 02:36:06.670 --> 02:36:12.889 diversity... within Africa as the origin of our 02:36:12.889 --> 02:36:19.489 species is greater than it is between any other 02:36:19.489 --> 02:36:23.889 two people anywhere else in the world. But because 02:36:23.889 --> 02:36:26.709 the anthropologists were not thinking genetic 02:36:26.709 --> 02:36:31.270 diversity, they're thinking skin color. They 02:36:31.270 --> 02:36:34.270 put them all in one bin. But if you have the 02:36:34.270 --> 02:36:37.649 most genetic diversity, then... In practically 02:36:37.649 --> 02:36:41.469 every way humans vary, you would find the extreme 02:36:41.469 --> 02:36:45.729 of that in the African continent. Where would 02:36:45.729 --> 02:36:49.389 you find the tallest people in the world? Watusi 02:36:49.389 --> 02:36:52.930 tribe of Africa. How about the shortest people 02:36:52.930 --> 02:36:55.409 in the world? Pygmies. The pygmies. Not even 02:36:55.409 --> 02:36:59.229 that far away. Right. Geographically. They have 02:36:59.229 --> 02:37:02.250 the same skin color, so the Europeans said these 02:37:02.250 --> 02:37:07.190 are one. Group of people, one race. Where might 02:37:07.190 --> 02:37:10.049 you find the slowest people in the world? Well, 02:37:10.049 --> 02:37:12.969 no one looks for them. Where would you find? 02:37:13.049 --> 02:37:14.569 There's no races to find the slowest people. 02:37:14.670 --> 02:37:19.309 How about the fastest people? Africa. Okay. People 02:37:19.309 --> 02:37:22.790 of African descent have dominated the long distance 02:37:22.790 --> 02:37:25.309 as well as the sprint. Two completely different 02:37:25.309 --> 02:37:28.209 physical abilities. Oh, but they're all dark 02:37:28.209 --> 02:37:31.489 -skinned people. They're all Negroes. Okay. Where 02:37:31.489 --> 02:37:34.209 would you likely find the dumbest person in the 02:37:34.209 --> 02:37:38.270 world? Africa. How about the smartest person 02:37:38.270 --> 02:37:41.770 in the world? Africa. How about the Egyptians? 02:37:42.090 --> 02:37:46.750 The Europeans did not look for people smarter 02:37:46.750 --> 02:37:50.430 than they were. Okay? And to this day, where 02:37:50.430 --> 02:37:52.629 they find evidence where that might have been 02:37:52.629 --> 02:37:55.770 the case, you have people saying aliens did it. 02:37:57.030 --> 02:38:02.219 Egypt is, of course, in Africa. Yeah. A brilliant 02:38:02.219 --> 02:38:06.719 civilization. Oh, my gosh. While Europeans were 02:38:06.719 --> 02:38:10.319 still either disemboweling heretics or whatever 02:38:10.319 --> 02:38:14.479 the hell they were doing, even before that, thousands 02:38:14.479 --> 02:38:19.540 of years ago. So my point is, if you don't look 02:38:19.540 --> 02:38:21.680 for it and you don't find it and you're going 02:38:21.680 --> 02:38:25.100 to create a map of humans of the world, you're 02:38:25.100 --> 02:38:27.420 going to put yourself at the top. That's what 02:38:27.420 --> 02:38:28.920 you're going to do. And you're going to write 02:38:28.920 --> 02:38:33.969 things. Like this. Who do you want to hear from? 02:38:34.489 --> 02:38:37.930 Thomas Jefferson or Francis Galton? Jefferson. 02:38:38.049 --> 02:38:44.190 Jefferson. 1785. Speaking of the Negroes. Comparing 02:38:44.190 --> 02:38:47.350 them by their faculties of memory, reason, and 02:38:47.350 --> 02:38:50.430 imagination, it appears to me that in memory, 02:38:50.610 --> 02:38:54.540 they are equal to the whites. In reason... Much 02:38:54.540 --> 02:38:58.579 inferior. As I think one could scarcely be found 02:38:58.579 --> 02:39:02.959 capable of tracing and comprehending the investigations 02:39:02.959 --> 02:39:07.920 of Euclid. And in imagination, they are dull, 02:39:08.120 --> 02:39:14.840 tasteless, and anomalous. What is Euclid? I honestly 02:39:14.840 --> 02:39:17.659 don't know how many Euclid -fluent white people 02:39:17.659 --> 02:39:20.659 Jefferson knew in the original American colonies. 02:39:20.799 --> 02:39:25.309 Euclid invented geometry. Okay, Euclidean geometry 02:39:25.309 --> 02:39:29.030 is ancient Greece. And his books still exist 02:39:29.030 --> 02:39:32.329 to this day. So he's saying the black slaves 02:39:32.329 --> 02:39:35.569 don't know Euclid, can't figure out Euclid. Well, 02:39:35.610 --> 02:39:38.350 they haven't been educated. Regardless, how many 02:39:38.350 --> 02:39:44.950 white farmers in 1785 USA knew Euclid? Zero. 02:39:45.389 --> 02:39:50.659 Okay. But whatever were his observations and 02:39:50.659 --> 02:39:53.280 objections to black people, he had no hesitation 02:39:53.280 --> 02:39:56.180 continually mating with at least one of them, 02:39:56.260 --> 02:40:00.860 producing six children. So you know what I did 02:40:00.860 --> 02:40:04.280 here? Oh, then there's a guy who wrote a whole 02:40:04.280 --> 02:40:07.680 book comparing black people and white people, 02:40:07.780 --> 02:40:10.979 a book that was used into the 1960s. It was called 02:40:10.979 --> 02:40:15.200 The Origin of Races by Carlton Kuhn. He wrote. 02:40:15.640 --> 02:40:18.100 If Africa was the cradle of mankind, which he 02:40:18.100 --> 02:40:21.139 recognizes, it was only an indifferent kindergarten. 02:40:21.940 --> 02:40:25.139 Europe and Asia were our principal schools. So 02:40:25.139 --> 02:40:27.399 these are people putting themselves at the top. 02:40:27.540 --> 02:40:29.420 He's white, so he's got to put white people at 02:40:29.420 --> 02:40:31.840 the top. Then I thought, suppose anthropologists 02:40:31.840 --> 02:40:35.540 were black racists instead of white racists. 02:40:36.659 --> 02:40:39.659 What would they write? What would they come up 02:40:39.659 --> 02:40:41.399 with? Well, also what he's saying is ridiculous 02:40:41.399 --> 02:40:43.379 because if it's kindergarten, how did they do 02:40:43.379 --> 02:40:46.479 the pyramids? It's the most complex structures 02:40:46.479 --> 02:40:49.000 ever known to man. Hold on. We can't reproduce 02:40:49.000 --> 02:40:54.459 today? All of us. My only point is when you have 02:40:54.459 --> 02:40:56.879 that mindset and you have to put yourself at 02:40:56.879 --> 02:40:59.280 the top and all people with dark skin are one 02:40:59.280 --> 02:41:01.600 entity, you're not looking for people smarter 02:41:01.600 --> 02:41:04.620 than you. There's other evidence here. Do you 02:41:04.620 --> 02:41:07.239 realize that the people who get the highest scores 02:41:07.239 --> 02:41:10.879 on standardized tests in England are people, 02:41:11.000 --> 02:41:16.079 immigrants from the Igbo tribe in Nigeria? And 02:41:16.079 --> 02:41:20.780 their kids outscore all the, quote, native white 02:41:20.780 --> 02:41:23.239 people in the town. If you're not looking for 02:41:23.239 --> 02:41:25.260 them, you're not finding them. It just doesn't 02:41:25.260 --> 02:41:29.319 – it's a thing. It's all here in this chapter. 02:41:29.440 --> 02:41:31.299 And all I'm doing is bringing science to it. 02:41:31.440 --> 02:41:37.079 That's all I'm doing here. And where is it here? 02:41:37.200 --> 02:41:48.920 Okay. So a black – yeah. Here it goes. Then I 02:41:48.920 --> 02:41:50.979 got to go. I can't keep staying here, dude. It's 02:41:50.979 --> 02:41:55.559 okay. You can come back. There's a lot of little 02:41:55.559 --> 02:41:57.760 stickies on that book. I'm sure you have many 02:41:57.760 --> 02:42:00.120 other things to talk about. What is the book, 02:42:00.159 --> 02:42:05.360 by the way? Oh, Starry Messenger. Is it available 02:42:05.360 --> 02:42:10.139 now? Cosmic Perspectives on Civilization. Came 02:42:10.139 --> 02:42:12.180 out eight weeks ago. Please tell me you did the 02:42:12.180 --> 02:42:15.319 audio version of it. I did. Thank you. I did. 02:42:15.709 --> 02:42:17.649 I hate when people have other people do the audio 02:42:17.649 --> 02:42:20.549 version. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I did the audio version. 02:42:20.549 --> 02:42:24.549 I'm glad. Oh, yeah. Of course, you. You'd have 02:42:24.549 --> 02:42:27.270 to. I could not do the audio version of this. 02:42:27.329 --> 02:42:29.530 Some fucking actor? I talk about the pyramids 02:42:29.530 --> 02:42:36.750 here. Even Elon Musk, by the way, tweeted pyramids. 02:42:37.690 --> 02:42:40.989 Aliens built the pyramids, obviously. Elon said 02:42:40.989 --> 02:42:42.930 that? I think he was joking around. Possibly, 02:42:42.950 --> 02:42:47.229 but he said it, and it's in a - You know, Elon 02:42:47.229 --> 02:42:49.250 likes to joke around about shit. Here's one. 02:42:49.329 --> 02:42:52.989 On May 1st, 2021, a talented chess player reached 02:42:52.989 --> 02:42:55.450 the title of National Master for having achieved 02:42:55.450 --> 02:42:59.389 a U .S. Chess Federation rating above 2200, landing 02:42:59.389 --> 02:43:03.670 among the top 4 % of 350 ,000 rated players in 02:43:03.670 --> 02:43:07.270 the world. A rating achieved that was 500 points 02:43:07.270 --> 02:43:11.270 higher than that of a chess coach, just a few 02:43:11.270 --> 02:43:14.340 years after learning how to play the game. That 02:43:14.340 --> 02:43:18.719 prodigy is a 10 -year -old boy named Tanitalua 02:43:18.719 --> 02:43:24.379 Adewumi, the son of Nigerian refugees to the 02:43:24.379 --> 02:43:28.719 USA in 2017. His family spent a brief time living 02:43:28.719 --> 02:43:30.899 in homeless shelters in New York City before 02:43:30.899 --> 02:43:33.139 his parents established stable employment and 02:43:33.139 --> 02:43:36.520 permanent residence. I played a brief chess game 02:43:36.520 --> 02:43:40.959 against the little fellow in March 2021 on Grandmaster 02:43:40.959 --> 02:43:44.360 Maurice Ashley's Twitch platform. A live streaming 02:43:44.360 --> 02:43:48.899 social media interface. The game was indeed brief. 02:43:50.719 --> 02:43:53.440 Yeah, he wiped the floor with me. Speaking of 02:43:53.440 --> 02:44:00.739 Nigerians, immigrants to the U .S. Enjoy an 8 02:44:00.739 --> 02:44:03.819 % higher household income than the national average. 02:44:04.319 --> 02:44:06.520 Nigerian immigrants in the United States. And 02:44:06.520 --> 02:44:08.700 ethnic Nigerian children in the United Kingdom, 02:44:08.840 --> 02:44:12.079 especially those from the Igbo tribe, consistently 02:44:12.079 --> 02:44:15.940 attain higher test scores on average than their 02:44:15.940 --> 02:44:18.739 white UK counterparts. What is it about Nigeria? 02:44:19.459 --> 02:44:22.879 Occasions to pause and wonder what depths of 02:44:22.879 --> 02:44:26.079 intellect. These are occasions to pause. What 02:44:26.079 --> 02:44:29.459 depths of intellectual capital in math, science 02:44:29.459 --> 02:44:33.520 and engineering or any field lay hidden deep? 02:44:33.879 --> 02:44:36.680 within the African continent or anywhere else 02:44:36.680 --> 02:44:41.719 on earth, lost for now or lost forever for want 02:44:41.719 --> 02:44:46.959 of an opportunity to flourish. I'm going to leave 02:44:46.959 --> 02:44:48.399 you with a fast list. I want to tell you what 02:44:48.399 --> 02:44:52.860 my racist black anthropologist found. Let's go 02:44:52.860 --> 02:44:55.319 back to the 19th century. Let all anthropologists 02:44:55.319 --> 02:44:58.879 be black racists instead of white racists. Okay? 02:44:59.139 --> 02:45:06.629 Okay. What would they say? So. All right. Chimpanzees 02:45:06.629 --> 02:45:10.729 are humans closest genetic relative. We just 02:45:10.729 --> 02:45:13.030 need to find similarities between chimps and 02:45:13.030 --> 02:45:15.870 white people. And that would be surefire evidence 02:45:15.870 --> 02:45:19.030 of their less evolved state, because that's what 02:45:19.030 --> 02:45:21.250 people were saying. The blacks were still evolving 02:45:21.250 --> 02:45:23.569 and they show a chimp, a black person and a white 02:45:23.569 --> 02:45:26.889 person. And so that's you can enslave black people. 02:45:28.059 --> 02:45:30.819 laws against them, a way to justify it, because 02:45:30.819 --> 02:45:31.979 of course you're going to put yourself at the 02:45:31.979 --> 02:45:36.620 top. So now, hypothetical black racist anthropologist. 02:45:38.059 --> 02:45:41.639 Chimps and other apes. So this is a list. This 02:45:41.639 --> 02:45:45.079 is in a book that was never written. Chimps and 02:45:45.079 --> 02:45:48.979 other apes grow hair all over their bodies. The 02:45:48.979 --> 02:45:52.540 hairiest people you've ever seen have been white 02:45:52.540 --> 02:45:56.040 people. with mats of hair across their chests 02:45:56.040 --> 02:45:59.079 and ascending their backs. Their body hair can 02:45:59.079 --> 02:46:01.319 even reach upward and out of their shirt collar. 02:46:01.899 --> 02:46:05.159 Black people do not remotely approximate this 02:46:05.159 --> 02:46:08.579 level of hairiness. There was no mention of this 02:46:08.579 --> 02:46:13.020 in any of those books. Distinct from their face, 02:46:13.040 --> 02:46:16.319 hands, and feet, part the hair of most chimpanzees 02:46:16.319 --> 02:46:18.420 the way they do to each other when checking for 02:46:18.420 --> 02:46:22.040 lice, and their skin color is white, not any 02:46:22.040 --> 02:46:29.399 shade. Chimps tend to have big ears relative 02:46:29.399 --> 02:46:32.920 to their head size. After decades of ear watching, 02:46:33.180 --> 02:46:35.680 I can attest that the biggest ears I've ever 02:46:35.680 --> 02:46:38.920 seen on humans have been on white people. Have 02:46:38.920 --> 02:46:41.399 a look yourself next time you're in a crowded 02:46:41.399 --> 02:46:44.719 public place. Doubtless there's strong overlap, 02:46:45.000 --> 02:46:47.639 but the size of black people's ears can be as 02:46:47.639 --> 02:46:50.479 little as half the size of white people's ears. 02:46:52.170 --> 02:46:54.989 You might now ask about the famously large ears 02:46:54.989 --> 02:46:58.950 of President Barack Obama. But he is precisely 02:46:58.950 --> 02:47:03.309 half white, just as much white as black. So maybe 02:47:03.309 --> 02:47:05.610 his big ears come from the white half of his 02:47:05.610 --> 02:47:10.709 family. For most of the 20th century, Neanderthals 02:47:10.709 --> 02:47:14.819 were portrayed as stupid and brutish. Turns out, 02:47:14.840 --> 02:47:17.879 beginning in the 1990s, genetic research revealed 02:47:17.879 --> 02:47:22.479 that Europeans are between 1 and 3 % Neanderthal. 02:47:23.280 --> 02:47:28.319 Africans, 0%. That can't be good for Europeans. 02:47:28.639 --> 02:47:31.879 Time to clean up that backward primitive image. 02:47:32.399 --> 02:47:36.040 Since then... published references to Neanderthals, 02:47:36.040 --> 02:47:38.579 instead comment on what must have been their 02:47:38.579 --> 02:47:41.799 creative, artistic, inventive, and articulate 02:47:41.799 --> 02:47:45.459 ways, crafting sophisticated tools and technologies 02:47:45.459 --> 02:47:49.840 to shape their world. Look how easy it is to 02:47:49.840 --> 02:47:55.139 be racist. Let's continue. Chimpanzees invest 02:47:55.139 --> 02:47:58.120 quality family time pruning each other's hair. 02:47:58.280 --> 02:48:01.520 We've all watched them do this. Apparently, the 02:48:01.520 --> 02:48:04.600 lice they find must be tasty because whoever 02:48:04.600 --> 02:48:06.799 plucks them from the other chimp's head also 02:48:06.799 --> 02:48:10.879 eats them. Ever hear of a lice outbreak among 02:48:10.879 --> 02:48:14.559 black children? Probably not. White children 02:48:14.559 --> 02:48:19.020 are 30 times more susceptible to lice infestation 02:48:19.020 --> 02:48:22.059 than are black children. The parasite simply 02:48:22.059 --> 02:48:25.459 likes to lay eggs in the hair of chimpanzees 02:48:25.459 --> 02:48:27.979 and white people more than on the hair of black 02:48:27.979 --> 02:48:32.979 people. This goes on. This could have been included 02:48:32.979 --> 02:48:34.639 and they would have said, well, wait a minute. 02:48:34.680 --> 02:48:38.020 Maybe all humans are together and chimps are 02:48:38.020 --> 02:48:41.260 something completely different. But they didn't 02:48:41.260 --> 02:48:45.059 go there. Their bias prevented their analysis 02:48:45.059 --> 02:48:50.020 of information that stares flat into their face. 02:48:50.159 --> 02:48:55.639 Okay. Here's one. I'm going to skip some here 02:48:55.639 --> 02:48:57.760 because I got to go. I got a plane waiting for 02:48:57.760 --> 02:49:07.379 me. I'm skipping some here. Ready? Yeah. This 02:49:07.379 --> 02:49:09.459 is one more from the chimp vault. I have others 02:49:09.459 --> 02:49:12.459 that are not chimp related. Here's one. Chimpanzees 02:49:12.459 --> 02:49:18.940 love to swing in trees. Apparently, so do suburban 02:49:18.940 --> 02:49:22.600 white children. They typically can't wait to 02:49:22.600 --> 02:49:26.340 build and live in a backyard tree house. You 02:49:26.340 --> 02:49:31.110 have not likely seen black children. even contemplate 02:49:31.110 --> 02:49:34.530 the idea. The white people clearly want to return 02:49:34.530 --> 02:49:38.030 to their fully primitive state. This would be 02:49:38.030 --> 02:49:41.690 a racist black person, okay, from the 19th century, 02:49:41.809 --> 02:49:45.309 publishing, trying to find ways to enslave white 02:49:45.309 --> 02:49:49.170 people. That's a cosmic perspective. That's a, 02:49:49.350 --> 02:49:53.409 look, dude, this is what we were doing as humans 02:49:53.409 --> 02:49:56.569 to each other. Not recognizing authentic diversity 02:49:56.569 --> 02:49:59.829 in who and what we are. Trying to separate to 02:49:59.829 --> 02:50:02.590 say I'm better. I make the rules and whatever 02:50:02.590 --> 02:50:04.729 rule I'm making, I'm going to put myself at the 02:50:04.729 --> 02:50:07.510 top. And you're not going to be at the top because 02:50:07.510 --> 02:50:10.729 you're different. Do you anticipate that as people 02:50:10.729 --> 02:50:14.790 get more education, more information, and as 02:50:14.790 --> 02:50:19.629 we evolve? I want to believe that. That we'll 02:50:19.629 --> 02:50:22.649 stop doing that and we'll start recognizing the 02:50:22.649 --> 02:50:25.170 importance of diversity. I want to believe that. 02:50:25.229 --> 02:50:27.190 And that it's our strength. I want to believe 02:50:27.190 --> 02:50:30.190 that. I want to believe that too. I so want to 02:50:30.190 --> 02:50:35.409 believe that. Okay. Here it is. Then I really 02:50:35.409 --> 02:50:39.889 got to go. Okay. Last one. There's a quote, a 02:50:39.889 --> 02:50:43.629 short quote from Horace Mann 200 years ago. I 02:50:43.629 --> 02:50:47.129 want this on my tombstone. I beseech you. Nobody 02:50:47.129 --> 02:50:49.750 uses beseech anymore. I love it. I beseech you 02:50:49.750 --> 02:50:53.549 to treasure up in your hearts these my parting 02:50:53.549 --> 02:50:58.829 words. Be ashamed to die until you have won some 02:50:58.829 --> 02:51:04.750 victory for humanity. Our primal urge to keep 02:51:04.750 --> 02:51:08.569 looking up is surely greater than our primal 02:51:08.569 --> 02:51:13.110 urge to keep killing one another. If so, then 02:51:13.110 --> 02:51:16.680 human curiosity and wonder. the twin chariots 02:51:16.680 --> 02:51:20.459 of cosmic discovery, will ensure that starry 02:51:20.459 --> 02:51:22.899 messages, these are messages from science, from 02:51:22.899 --> 02:51:25.920 the sky, from the universe, continue to arrive. 02:51:26.600 --> 02:51:30.840 These insights compel us for our short time on 02:51:30.840 --> 02:51:34.340 Earth to become better shepherds of our own civilization. 02:51:35.239 --> 02:51:38.600 Yes, life is better than death. Life is also 02:51:38.600 --> 02:51:41.639 better than having never been born. But each 02:51:41.639 --> 02:51:45.670 of us... is alive against stupendous odds. We 02:51:45.670 --> 02:51:49.149 won the lottery only once. We get to invoke our 02:51:49.149 --> 02:51:52.129 faculties of reason to figure out how the world 02:51:52.129 --> 02:51:55.829 works. But we also get to smell the flowers. 02:51:56.129 --> 02:51:59.889 We get to bask in divine sunsets and sunrises 02:51:59.889 --> 02:52:03.530 and gaze deeply into the night sky they cradle. 02:52:04.030 --> 02:52:08.489 We get to live and ultimately die in this glorious 02:52:08.489 --> 02:52:11.549 universe. That's a hell of a tombstone. Dude. 02:52:12.170 --> 02:52:14.110 I got to run. Thank you, sir. And one day I'll 02:52:14.110 --> 02:52:16.590 come back and just chill. We'll lift weights 02:52:16.590 --> 02:52:19.290 together. Okay. Wrestle a few rounds. Let's do 02:52:19.290 --> 02:52:22.270 it. You know. Thank you very much. Appreciate 02:52:22.270 --> 02:52:24.170 you. Thanks for having me. Thank you. All right. 02:52:24.229 --> 02:52:24.649 Bye, everybody.