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Welcome to this curated educational transcript of the Joe Rogan Experience. In this session, we provide a deep-dive examination of the critical perspectives and historical dialogues presented in Episode #2394. Our mission is to offer a high-fidelity, searchable research resource for students of cultural history, emerging technology, and global discourse. This transcript has been specifically optimized for academic reference, linguistic study, and archival preservation regarding Defense Technology Innovation, Virtual Reality Evolution, and Sovereign Manufacturing Strategies. Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan

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experience. Train by day. Joe Rogan podcast by

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night. All day. I haven't done the ball, but

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I have done those knee chairs. Okay. They're

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a little annoying. What about standing desks?

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You a standing desk fan? No. Yeah, when I use

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them, I usually have lower back. It gets kind

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of sore just standing there. I feel like some

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part of you should be relaxed. And if you're

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standing, you're going to want to lean on something

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to have a conversation especially. Because I

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know some people do podcasts standing up, like

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a standing up table. That's crazy. I have a buddy

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of mine who's doing – have you ever seen the

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float tanks where you float in the salt water?

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Yeah, we have one here. oh no no way yeah so

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i know someone who is building a rig with a waterproof

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keyboard waterproof mouse and a VR headset so

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that they can have a float computing rig. And

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they want to just, they want to just, they want

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to, they want to program while they're floating

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in space. And he hasn't, he hasn't gotten all

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the way there yet. The hardest part has actually

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been the mouse. There's lots of waterproof keyboards

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for various industrial applications. Like, you

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know, so you don't get metal shavings in oil

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in them, but mice, it's actually, it's actually

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harder, but that makes sense. Cause there's a,

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well, it's a laser. Now it used to be an actual

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ball. That would have been really hard. Yeah.

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At this point, I don't think it's that hard.

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I think he's been screwing around with just taking

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a normal one and then wrapping it in saran wrap.

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But that's kind of splash -proof but not immersion

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-proof. Is he actually underwater with the setup?

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Yeah, because if you're taking your hands up

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out of the water, one, it's uncomfortable. So

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he's floating like this and the keyboard – Underwater.

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Yeah, exactly. So you're floating at neutral

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position basically. And just to code? He wants

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to code like that? He wants to code. He must

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be a super weirdo. I want to do it for VR gaming.

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I think that'd be really interesting. If you

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can't... If you can't simulate the experience

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of your body being in the game, at least to forget

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that your body exists and have the only thing

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you're viewing be your vision and the sound,

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I feel like would be a very interesting experience.

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So I'm begging off an hour from him when he gets

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it done, but I'm looking forward to that. I would

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let you use ours to try it out, but we just had

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a problem with one of our pumps broke. Oh, that's

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a bummer. Yeah, it flooded everything with salt

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water. It's weird. It's a weird experience. Have

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you done it? I have actually never done it. I'm

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so fascinated by it. And I've actually booked

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a session at some of those like float tank companies

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several times. And then every single time my

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schedule has intervened and it turns out that

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I've not been able to do it. You should get one

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for your place. Maybe I should. Yeah. I should

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probably try it first, right? Or it's just so

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good I should have it. Yeah, you'll love it.

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Yeah, it's very relaxing too. And it's really

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good for thinking. Like if you have a thought

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and you're just fucking around with it in your

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head, you're like, I don't know what to do with

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this. You're in there. You have zero distractions.

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It's like your mind has more computational power

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that's available because even though you don't

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think about it, like right now we're in these

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chairs, your butt's touching the chair, your

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feet are on the floor, your hands on the table,

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your clothes are on your body. There's all these

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different things that your body is recognizing

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as input. Sure. When you take those away. It's

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like if you're having a conversation, there's

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a bunch of people right beside you with a jackhammer.

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You're like, this is too distracting. Let's go

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over here. And you go to where in the park, it's

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nice and peaceful. Now you can have a conversation.

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It's so much easier. Well, you don't realize

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that like regular everyday life, just establishing

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the distance between the walls and thinking about

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all the data, all that stuff is your brain is

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computing this. Yep. In the silence of the float

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tank, there's none of that. And you don't feel

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the water because it's the same temperature as

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your skin. That's right. And it's all salt -laden,

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so it's isotonic. Exactly. You feel like you're

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flying. That's so cool. It's really cool. I've

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done a lot of reading on it, and I'm super interested

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in the science of it. But I've never actually

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managed to get into a float tank, which is really

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embarrassing. I mean, you'd think that a billionaire

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would have the resources to get into a bucket

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of salt water. Yeah, you should have somebody

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make you one. Have someone build you one at your

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place. Oh, that'd be cool. Maybe get one made

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out of wood instead of like the plastic. You

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want metal. Mine looks like a giant meat locker.

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That's what it looks like. But the guy who made

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it for me was like a mad genius. He died, unfortunately.

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He was a mad genius who also didn't believe in

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medicine. Did he die of hepatitis? I don't know.

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I think he died of hepatitis. Well, you'll have

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to show it to me so that I can check it out.

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It's dope. Yeah. But it would definitely be,

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at some point in time, the best way to disconnect

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from your natural environment. If they do come

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up with some sort of haptic feedback, or whether

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it's some sort of a neural interface that completely

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changes the environment, like you drop into it,

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that would be the perfect environment to do it

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in salt water. Yep. Well, I mean, that was always

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my dream. My first company was Oculus. And so

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that was my dream was to just fully feel like

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you were inside of the video game. Completely

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forget about the real world. How old were you

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when you started working there? So I started

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building virtual reality headset. when I was

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14 or 15. And then I built the first prototype

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of what I call the Oculus Rift at 16. And then

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I formally turned it into a company when I was

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18, launched the product when I was 19, and then

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sold the company a few years later to Facebook

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for a few billion dollars. So it was kind of

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a crazy arc for me. Wow. That was like, I was

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putting myself through school. Did you work with

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Carmack? Yeah, so, well, Carmack was... So John

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Carmack was one of my heroes growing up. Love

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that dude. And it was one of these crazy things

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where the universe kind of brought us together.

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I was working on my VR technology and nobody

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was paying attention to VR back then. It was

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kind of a crazy person thing. Nobody was paying

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attention to what I was doing. But I was posting

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about it on this internet forum. And then John

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Carmack started. posting on that same forum asking

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for help modifying his own Sony head -mounted

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display that he had bought to reduce the latency.

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And so I gave him a bunch of input on why he

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couldn't do it, why it was an impossible project,

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because I had been trying to do the same thing.

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And then he ended up seeing the work I was doing

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on the Oculus Rift. And he said, hey, Palmer,

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can I buy one of these from you? I said, well,

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I'm not really selling these yet, but I'd be

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happy to lend it to you for free. And so I sent

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it to him. He ended up writing a review and posting

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it on his blog and said it was the best VR experience

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the world has ever seen. He introduced me to

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Sony. They tried to hire me to run their VR research

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and development lab. I turned them down. They

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doubled the offer. I turned that down. And then

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so John was kind of the guy who got me like really

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– he's kind of the first guy who got any public

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attention for me. where everyone was like, oh,

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if John Carmack says this is important, then

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this must be important. And then if you can believe

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it, two years later, after I started Oculus and

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started selling these, he actually left id Software

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and became the CTO of Oculus. Yes. Then I had

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the incredible opportunity to work with one of

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my childhood heroes as my CTO. That was so cool.

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What year was that? That was 2012. Okay. Because

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he came on the podcast, I think, 2016, and you

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brought one. Yeah. So, yeah, he joined in 2000.

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2013. So I think it was June of 2013. So about

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a year after I started, Oculus is when he joined

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as CTO. Well, he showed us and he was doing whatever

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the one is where you I guess you have drumsticks

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Is that what you have and you're whacking stuff

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as it comes out of the sky? He showed us that

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and like what a work We're probably with Beat

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Saber. Yes. Yeah, he's a huge Beat Saber fan

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Oh, he was going nuts and he was doing it really

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fast. Oh, no, this is not it's actually it's

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like it is good fitness. Yeah coordination training

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Yeah, it really like Beat Saber was great because

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it really busted this myth that VR was this like,

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you know totally inactive, be a fat, lazy slob

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thing. VR gaming, at least as it exists today,

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takes a lot more caloric expenditure than any

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other type of gaming. For sure. Even more than

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other motion games. Remember Wii Bowling and

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Wii Sports? That's one movement every once in

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a while. Beat Saber is a full -body workout.

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What's really impressive is the boxing games.

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The boxing games are a really good workout. Did

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you play, I think, one that was Creed by a company

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called Servios? I don't remember what the name

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was. We had a couple different ones at the old

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studio in L .A., and I'd work out with it. I'd

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put it on, and you do a round with these virtual

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boxers. You really get a workout in. Your feet

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hurt. Like, you're like, wow, I'm utilizing a

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lot of movement here. Yep. You know, the company

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that did a few of those boxing games is this

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L .A. studio called Servios. And the two co -founders

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of that were actually guys who worked with me

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in the Army research lab that I worked in before

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starting Oculus. So it's one of those. Teeny

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tiny worlds. There were so few of us that really

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believed in VR in those days. Is there a VR that

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a professional boxer could use? Could you get

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VR to the point where you could program it with

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AI? So you could take the movement of a Sugar

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Ray Leonard or something like that and actually

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program it into the machine? It's not just something

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you could do. It's being done. There are boxers

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who are using this technology. Really? So I know

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Logan Paul and Jake Paul. And I've talked with

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them a lot about using virtual reality and how

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they're using it to do combat training. That's

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right. Wow. Well, my thought was that you could

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actually emulate an opponent. So, like, say if

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you were supposed to fight Canelo Alvarez. Yeah.

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Well, we have this database of all Canelo Alvarez's

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performances. Yep. And training footage. So you

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could calculate what his normal exchanges are,

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what his opening moves are, how he sets the hookup

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off the jab. He feints the right. You're giving

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me crazy deja vu. Let me show you the text message

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that I was just doing with Logan Paul last night.

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I said, it's time to have robots fighting people.

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My dream is that you can have robots perfectly

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tuned to match your own current physical capability

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and progressively ramp up against yourself over

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time or against the greats. We were talking through

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– this was less VR. Well, are you even following

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some of the robot fighting league stuff? Yes.

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So that's controlled by VR. You put on a VR headset,

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you put on a motion capture suit, you tele -operate

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a robot. One of the things I've been talking

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with Logan about is the idea of having where

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you have one tele -operated robot versus an actual

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human. But then what we were talking about is

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this idea of having the robot learn from, like

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you're saying, learning from footage of not just

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the greats, but even yourself. So that it can

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be basically, you could fight against your style,

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your exact level of strength. And then, of course,

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you want to fight against the greats and see

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just how far you have to go and just get the

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shit kicked out of you. The other thing I was

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thinking about. What a robot could do if you

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programmed it correctly, it would have a really

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accurate sense of distance. So it would be able

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to touch you instead of hurt you. It could pull

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its punches. Yes. That's a really good point.

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Which is the best sparring partners. So the mechanics

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of it are all the same, but you don't have the

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follow through. It would have more control probably

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even than a person, right? So you think of the

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precise movements that surgical robots are able

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to do. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, I mean, you could

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do this. The main thing that robots have is they

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have just such fast reaction time. And so you

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could put sensors in like a glove. You could

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have it where the moment that it hits or even

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a ranging sensor. I mean, it could stop a millimeter

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away from you. So, yeah, you could totally do

00:11:49.750 --> 00:11:52.730
that. Is this something that someone's working

00:11:52.730 --> 00:11:55.509
out with? This is Robot Fightley again, San Francisco.

00:11:55.750 --> 00:11:57.990
Oh, this is the Fightley. So actually, this is

00:11:57.990 --> 00:11:59.870
a buddy of mine who's been working in VR for

00:11:59.870 --> 00:12:01.590
a really, really long time. So it's, again, what

00:12:01.590 --> 00:12:05.450
a tiny world of weird wackos. But yeah, SixLiv

00:12:05.450 --> 00:12:08.289
has been working on, which is his real name,

00:12:08.289 --> 00:12:12.529
by the way. He's been working on VR stuff for

00:12:12.529 --> 00:12:15.389
the past 15 years, and he recently got into doing

00:12:15.389 --> 00:12:19.779
this robot. Robot Combat Sports League. So that's

00:12:19.779 --> 00:12:22.220
that. They're doing a big U .S. versus China

00:12:22.220 --> 00:12:24.039
fight in December if you want me to get you tickets.

00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:26.000
I can make it happen. I can pull some strings.

00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:28.279
Where is it? Where is it taking place? I think

00:12:28.279 --> 00:12:30.580
it's going to be in San Francisco. That's funny.

00:12:30.879 --> 00:12:33.620
I try to stay out of San Francisco. I also don't

00:12:33.620 --> 00:12:37.299
really want to watch robots fight. No? I don't

00:12:37.299 --> 00:12:39.759
mind watching them on TV, but yeah. You ever

00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:47.330
read manga or anime about fighting? No. I gotta

00:12:47.330 --> 00:12:49.289
admit, I'm less of a fighting guy, more of an

00:12:49.289 --> 00:12:52.269
anime manga guy. But I love some of the just

00:12:52.269 --> 00:12:55.289
ridiculous inventions that make you think if

00:12:55.289 --> 00:12:57.090
there might be something there. So like Fist

00:12:57.090 --> 00:12:59.370
of the North Star, there's a move that a guy

00:12:59.370 --> 00:13:03.289
learns. And it's like a, I forget the name of

00:13:03.289 --> 00:13:04.690
it, but it's like a double punch. So what you

00:13:04.690 --> 00:13:07.429
do is you fold your fingers and you punch the

00:13:07.429 --> 00:13:10.990
guy. And then his skin recoils, it delivers the

00:13:10.990 --> 00:13:13.730
full hit. And then you fold your fingers in.

00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:16.500
So you hit, pull your fingers, and then punch

00:13:16.500 --> 00:13:19.059
again. And it's like one punch, but it's a double

00:13:19.059 --> 00:13:21.100
punch. And then one of the culmination of his

00:13:21.100 --> 00:13:23.299
training is where his master shows him that there's

00:13:23.299 --> 00:13:24.700
actually a final step. You can see where this

00:13:24.700 --> 00:13:27.340
is going. It's a triple punch. So you punch him

00:13:27.340 --> 00:13:29.840
like this, and then like this, and then like

00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:33.059
this. And mostly that stuff is nonsense and never

00:13:33.059 --> 00:13:34.500
going to work with a person, but it makes me

00:13:34.500 --> 00:13:37.340
wonder if a robot could do it. Well, you would

00:13:37.340 --> 00:13:40.039
need momentum, right? I mean, if it's generating

00:13:40.039 --> 00:13:42.860
force, your force would be stopped with the first

00:13:42.860 --> 00:13:45.740
blow. To be able to generate additional momentum

00:13:45.740 --> 00:13:47.879
in a short distance would be very difficult.

00:13:48.039 --> 00:13:50.889
For a person. What I'm thinking is a robot would

00:13:50.889 --> 00:13:53.169
allow you to do this type of multiple. It doesn't

00:13:53.169 --> 00:13:56.110
have muscles. It's using a different force. Exactly.

00:13:56.129 --> 00:13:58.409
So your first one would carry all your inertia

00:13:58.409 --> 00:14:00.370
through, and then you could get a second one.

00:14:00.470 --> 00:14:01.610
Oh, I agree. Because you would think you would

00:14:01.610 --> 00:14:04.389
want the most power in the first shot and concentrate

00:14:04.389 --> 00:14:06.230
only on that. But what if you could do the most

00:14:06.230 --> 00:14:08.679
power in the first shot? And then another follow

00:14:08.679 --> 00:14:11.360
shot anyway. Yeah. Or like you hit him and it

00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:13.620
throws him back of it. And then the moment, you

00:14:13.620 --> 00:14:15.840
know, the distance it creates. Look, I'm not

00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:18.419
a fighting expert. I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a computer

00:14:18.419 --> 00:14:21.159
kid. The thing that bothers me about it is the

00:14:21.159 --> 00:14:23.500
human body is inherently flawed. It's not a good

00:14:23.500 --> 00:14:25.360
design and it's not a good design for fighting.

00:14:25.460 --> 00:14:27.220
So if I was going to design something to fight

00:14:27.220 --> 00:14:29.279
something, I would never design it after a human.

00:14:30.190 --> 00:14:32.909
I would use an animal or something more destructive.

00:14:33.090 --> 00:14:35.529
I wouldn't use something so vulnerable or something

00:14:35.529 --> 00:14:37.350
with like shitty mechanics. Well, it ends up

00:14:37.350 --> 00:14:38.929
looking like a battle bot probably, you know,

00:14:38.929 --> 00:14:40.950
something heavily shielded and armored and it's

00:14:40.950 --> 00:14:42.929
got a big spike on an arm. It would be like that.

00:14:43.149 --> 00:14:45.330
That's what you would have for a robot to fight

00:14:45.330 --> 00:14:48.210
because a human is just too goofy. Well, I mean,

00:14:48.230 --> 00:14:49.789
that's why the stuff that I make for the Department

00:14:49.789 --> 00:14:51.330
of Defense, or I guess now the Department of

00:14:51.330 --> 00:14:53.990
War, none of it looks like a human. I mean, we're

00:14:53.990 --> 00:14:56.389
making robots for fighting. And they all have

00:14:56.389 --> 00:14:58.889
very hyper -specialized forms. And some of them

00:14:58.889 --> 00:15:01.529
look a bit like sharks or a bit like birds. But

00:15:01.529 --> 00:15:03.570
generally – yeah, you're right. The human form

00:15:03.570 --> 00:15:05.970
is not the one that you would actually base a

00:15:05.970 --> 00:15:08.509
Terminator off. No. It's terrible. It's a terrible

00:15:08.509 --> 00:15:10.529
form. Although I would say one of my – I don't

00:15:10.529 --> 00:15:12.490
think James Cameron ever really explored this

00:15:12.490 --> 00:15:15.409
in Terminator. But my personal kind of like –

00:15:17.290 --> 00:15:20.450
headcanon theory would be that the reason that

00:15:20.450 --> 00:15:23.929
Skynet made the Terminators into a humanoid form

00:15:23.929 --> 00:15:26.509
is because maybe there is really some hope in

00:15:26.509 --> 00:15:28.889
that there's something of humanity left in it.

00:15:28.970 --> 00:15:32.830
If it was truly a merciless killing machine with

00:15:32.830 --> 00:15:36.669
no affiliation with humanity, why would it make

00:15:36.669 --> 00:15:41.490
its agents so uniformly human -shaped? But that's

00:15:41.490 --> 00:15:43.289
just something I pause from time to time. I think

00:15:43.289 --> 00:15:46.870
it's just for deception. Well, the later ones

00:15:46.870 --> 00:15:48.889
truly were for deception. But if you look at

00:15:48.889 --> 00:15:51.110
a lot of the flashes into the future, they don't

00:15:51.110 --> 00:15:53.090
have meat shielded Terminators. There's lots

00:15:53.090 --> 00:15:57.429
of like T -series humanoid combat robots that

00:15:57.429 --> 00:15:59.389
are just walking around as bare metal skeletons.

00:15:59.669 --> 00:16:02.590
And so I feel like it's almost like an admission

00:16:02.590 --> 00:16:07.879
that the AI. does see itself in the mind of –

00:16:07.879 --> 00:16:10.700
it sees itself as a creation of man. It sees

00:16:10.700 --> 00:16:13.720
itself in the eyes of man. That was very creepy,

00:16:13.820 --> 00:16:15.700
right? Because that's in the Bible. God created

00:16:15.700 --> 00:16:18.259
man in his image. That's exactly what I was thinking.

00:16:18.379 --> 00:16:21.100
It's very much like it realizes it was created

00:16:21.100 --> 00:16:23.879
in man's image and derives some sort of satisfaction

00:16:23.879 --> 00:16:25.779
or value from that. I don't know if that's good

00:16:25.779 --> 00:16:26.519
or bad, but I thought it was interesting. Maybe

00:16:26.519 --> 00:16:29.059
it's just a giant cycle and that's how life –

00:16:29.740 --> 00:16:32.600
eventually does create artificial life. Well,

00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:34.879
I mean, you're familiar with all the theories

00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:39.419
around humanity being planted here by aliens.

00:16:39.419 --> 00:16:42.419
Oh, yeah, sure. And that's always interesting

00:16:42.419 --> 00:16:45.019
because you could imagine a world where, yeah,

00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:47.279
it is this cycle of things that look kind of

00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:50.220
like humans were on top of us, and maybe eventually

00:16:50.220 --> 00:16:52.240
there will be things that look like humans beneath

00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:54.879
us. Wasn't there some weird discovery, a recent

00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:58.889
discovery of an asteroid? Where they picked apart

00:16:58.889 --> 00:17:01.830
whether it's the crucial amino acids for life

00:17:01.830 --> 00:17:05.430
or some sort of genetic material. You're talking

00:17:05.430 --> 00:17:07.829
about the NASA release that there were strong

00:17:07.829 --> 00:17:12.869
biosigns that are compatible with what we would

00:17:12.869 --> 00:17:16.390
expect from life? Yes. There was. Recently, right?

00:17:16.589 --> 00:17:18.630
It was recently, although they walked it back

00:17:18.630 --> 00:17:21.150
pretty quickly. Oh, did they? There was kind

00:17:21.150 --> 00:17:24.529
of an initial. that said that we found that they're

00:17:24.529 --> 00:17:27.529
strongly aligned with being biological signals.

00:17:27.890 --> 00:17:29.789
And then they kind of reached back. They said,

00:17:29.849 --> 00:17:33.329
well, maybe not. I haven't dug into that one

00:17:33.329 --> 00:17:35.190
as deep as others. I've just been too busy really

00:17:35.190 --> 00:17:37.029
lately. And you're right. This is like very recent

00:17:37.029 --> 00:17:39.650
news. I always wonder if someone got overenthusiastic.

00:17:40.389 --> 00:17:43.089
Or if someone said, hey, yeah, why don't you

00:17:43.089 --> 00:17:45.410
shut the fuck up? You know, like we're trying

00:17:45.410 --> 00:17:49.309
to slow this whole release of alien technology,

00:17:49.549 --> 00:17:53.049
alien life, slow it down. Well, keep society

00:17:53.049 --> 00:17:55.430
together. So we have a stock market. Well, the

00:17:55.430 --> 00:17:57.430
good news, the good news in this case is I think

00:17:57.430 --> 00:18:00.210
even even the most optimistic sense and optimistic

00:18:00.210 --> 00:18:02.930
meaning I hope they find. life, I think it's

00:18:02.930 --> 00:18:05.029
going to end up being some microbes. Whatever

00:18:05.029 --> 00:18:08.130
they saw was not consistent with, oh, dude, it's

00:18:08.130 --> 00:18:10.329
a person in the rock, which is, of course, what

00:18:10.329 --> 00:18:13.230
we all want. We want people or little green men

00:18:13.230 --> 00:18:15.609
or something like that. That's probably going

00:18:15.609 --> 00:18:20.690
to be pretty far away. It probably is. My experience

00:18:20.690 --> 00:18:24.589
on this front is largely from a military angle

00:18:24.589 --> 00:18:26.490
and looking at a lot of the footage that's coming

00:18:26.490 --> 00:18:28.910
out and a lot of the sensor feeds that have come

00:18:28.910 --> 00:18:31.730
out. And the thing that what we like, what we

00:18:31.730 --> 00:18:33.730
really need even more than discovering microbes

00:18:33.730 --> 00:18:37.029
like these flying objects. Yeah. The problem

00:18:37.029 --> 00:18:39.170
is that most of them, and I'm not saying all

00:18:39.170 --> 00:18:41.730
of them, most of them, we're only capturing them

00:18:41.730 --> 00:18:44.089
on, let's say, one sensor. Like a camera is seeing

00:18:44.089 --> 00:18:45.990
it or a radar is seeing it. It's very rare to

00:18:45.990 --> 00:18:48.410
get both of those totally different types of

00:18:48.410 --> 00:18:50.369
sensors looking at it at the same time. It's

00:18:50.369 --> 00:18:52.470
relatively easy to imagine a world where a sensor

00:18:52.470 --> 00:18:54.630
would have an error or an artifact or even that's

00:18:54.630 --> 00:18:57.109
being actively spoofed, right? People are actively

00:18:57.109 --> 00:18:59.690
trying to trick it. You can make radars see things

00:18:59.690 --> 00:19:01.390
that aren't there. You can make cameras see things

00:19:01.390 --> 00:19:02.690
that aren't there if you're really smart about

00:19:02.690 --> 00:19:04.390
how you interact with them. It's very hard to

00:19:04.390 --> 00:19:07.089
make something. That makes a radar and a camera

00:19:07.089 --> 00:19:08.950
see something that isn't there in a way that

00:19:08.950 --> 00:19:11.750
perfectly aligns with what is there. Now, you

00:19:11.750 --> 00:19:13.930
saw the recent one with the hellfire that was

00:19:13.930 --> 00:19:16.990
fired at it. And it appears to have broken up

00:19:16.990 --> 00:19:19.250
but then kept moving. Yeah. That's interesting

00:19:19.250 --> 00:19:20.829
because now you have something that's on a camera

00:19:20.829 --> 00:19:23.609
and you sent another thing with a seeker and

00:19:23.609 --> 00:19:26.730
it got there and it blew up. Is that definite

00:19:26.730 --> 00:19:31.029
real footage? I mean, I believe. It's been verified?

00:19:32.919 --> 00:19:35.740
I am probably not in a position where I should

00:19:35.740 --> 00:19:37.660
say if I know if it's been verified, but I'll

00:19:37.660 --> 00:19:39.180
tell you this. I believe the footage is real.

00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:42.279
Let's run it through perplexity and ask... What

00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:44.400
do you mean by verified, though? Just ask if

00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:46.680
it has been verified that this is legitimate

00:19:46.680 --> 00:19:51.180
footage from the military of whatever they thought

00:19:51.180 --> 00:19:52.980
it was going to be and a Hellfire missile hits

00:19:52.980 --> 00:19:55.730
it. I do believe that one of the... one of the

00:19:55.730 --> 00:19:58.150
members of the Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon

00:19:58.150 --> 00:20:00.670
Committees in Congress introduced it into a hearing.

00:20:00.890 --> 00:20:02.349
That's where it came from. It came from a hearing.

00:20:02.490 --> 00:20:04.950
Who released it? It didn't just show up on Twitter.

00:20:05.309 --> 00:20:13.109
Oh, okay. Which guy released it? You saw the

00:20:13.109 --> 00:20:16.269
phenomenon? Yes. Fantastic. It's really good.

00:20:16.470 --> 00:20:17.890
You know, the guy who did it is doing a follow

00:20:17.890 --> 00:20:19.309
-up. Have you heard about this? What's he doing?

00:20:19.660 --> 00:20:21.180
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00:21:31.589 --> 00:21:34.769
shouldn't say too much more, but there's a follow

00:21:34.769 --> 00:21:36.549
-up to it that's coming that's even better. Wait

00:21:36.549 --> 00:21:40.069
a minute. Wasn't the phenomenon James Fox? Was

00:21:40.069 --> 00:21:42.990
it James Fox? Was the phenomenon James Fox? Say

00:21:42.990 --> 00:21:45.329
again? James Fox. Was that the phenomenon? Yeah,

00:21:45.349 --> 00:21:48.509
but the age of disclosure? He had moment of contact.

00:21:48.930 --> 00:21:51.650
He had the Varginia. That's the Varginia one.

00:21:51.869 --> 00:21:56.849
And then didn't he have the phenomenon too? Somebody

00:21:56.849 --> 00:21:59.789
did it. I saw it. Why did I think it was Fox?

00:21:59.970 --> 00:22:02.730
It is Fox. Yeah, Fox has been on here a few times.

00:22:03.170 --> 00:22:05.789
He's got that crazy one about the Varginia, Brazil

00:22:05.789 --> 00:22:08.329
sighting. Do you know about that one? That one's

00:22:08.329 --> 00:22:10.170
nuts. Like the whole town saw this thing. It

00:22:10.170 --> 00:22:13.269
crashed in the 90s. And they have like a statue

00:22:13.269 --> 00:22:15.329
of this thing like as you're entering the city.

00:22:15.609 --> 00:22:19.150
And supposedly, this is the crazy story, there

00:22:19.150 --> 00:22:22.930
was a wounded alien. One of the police officers

00:22:22.930 --> 00:22:25.910
carried this wounded alien in the back of a car.

00:22:25.930 --> 00:22:27.789
They brought it to a hospital. There's records

00:22:27.789 --> 00:22:29.529
of them bringing this to the hospital. The hospital

00:22:29.529 --> 00:22:32.890
said, we can't handle this. We have no – take

00:22:32.890 --> 00:22:34.690
it to a different hospital. So they took it to

00:22:34.690 --> 00:22:38.430
another hospital. Yep. Then the guy who carried

00:22:38.430 --> 00:22:41.970
the thing gets a severe bacterial infection that's

00:22:41.970 --> 00:22:46.029
unresponsive to antibiotics and dies. Whoa. Yeah.

00:22:46.210 --> 00:22:50.369
Young, healthy, you know, fighting age man gets

00:22:50.369 --> 00:22:53.029
this weird infection after handling this creature.

00:22:53.269 --> 00:22:56.609
Multiple witnesses say they saw another one of

00:22:56.609 --> 00:22:58.569
them. There was like a couple of them. One of

00:22:58.569 --> 00:23:00.089
them was injured that they picked up and there

00:23:00.089 --> 00:23:02.900
was another one that was there. And then. Many

00:23:02.900 --> 00:23:05.279
people in the town said that they saw another

00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:09.920
craft come by to retrieve those aliens It's a

00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:13.079
really nice story because it's the same story

00:23:13.079 --> 00:23:16.920
is told independently by a bunch of people You

00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:18.779
know I've kind of got my retirement figured out

00:23:18.779 --> 00:23:22.119
I have for a while can't just retire right now

00:23:22.119 --> 00:23:24.000
if you wanted to I mean I could it's just what

00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:25.680
I'm doing I think is important you know so I

00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:27.339
got a I got to see my mission through like I'm

00:23:27.339 --> 00:23:30.200
the government is We've been spending way too

00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:32.359
much money on defense, not getting nearly enough

00:23:32.359 --> 00:23:34.779
for it. So I started Andral with the goal of

00:23:34.779 --> 00:23:36.420
saving taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars

00:23:36.420 --> 00:23:39.420
a year. I need to see that through. But what

00:23:39.420 --> 00:23:42.859
I want to get to someday is there's a handful

00:23:42.859 --> 00:23:44.480
of these government groups that are going around

00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:46.579
looking into things like what you're talking

00:23:46.579 --> 00:23:49.160
about. They look into the strange phenomenon.

00:23:49.619 --> 00:23:52.220
Those groups do exist, and I've tracked down

00:23:52.220 --> 00:23:54.619
a few of them. The problem is that they're not

00:23:54.619 --> 00:23:58.390
taken seriously. They're not well -funded. And.

00:23:59.559 --> 00:24:01.559
They're subject to all the same normal rules

00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:04.039
as an average government employee. Like their

00:24:04.039 --> 00:24:06.640
problems are not finding weird things. It's stuff

00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:09.019
like getting approval to buy plane tickets to

00:24:09.019 --> 00:24:11.039
go somewhere and getting approval to stay there

00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:13.940
for two nights versus versus one night. Oh, look,

00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:15.859
it's just the it's the typical government bureaucracy

00:24:15.859 --> 00:24:17.880
where they have to make every penny count. They

00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:19.819
only have so much money. Anyway, one of my dreams

00:24:19.819 --> 00:24:21.640
is I'm going to at some point when I'm retired,

00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:23.720
I'm going to go get deputized by the government,

00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:26.920
go get my federal badge. And I'll be the I'll

00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:30.190
be the government's. privately funded X -Files,

00:24:30.230 --> 00:24:31.890
and I'll just fly around. I'll fly around on

00:24:31.890 --> 00:24:34.089
my own plane. I'll have my own team. We'll bring

00:24:34.089 --> 00:24:36.269
our own sensors, our own computers. Oh, man,

00:24:36.369 --> 00:24:38.750
if only we could bring in this expert, but he's

00:24:38.750 --> 00:24:40.250
on the other side of the world. So bring him

00:24:40.250 --> 00:24:44.210
in. Bring him in. Send the plane. Put out the

00:24:44.210 --> 00:24:46.609
Palmer signal. Yes, sir. He'll be here in 12

00:24:46.609 --> 00:24:49.950
hours. I feel like there's enough, and not even

00:24:49.950 --> 00:24:52.109
just aliens. In general, there's enough weird

00:24:52.109 --> 00:24:55.069
stuff going on that it doesn't seem like a stretch

00:24:55.069 --> 00:24:58.470
to have. somebody or something that really stays

00:24:58.470 --> 00:25:00.650
on top of that stuff. It seems like a very good

00:25:00.650 --> 00:25:03.049
idea. Did you see the Age of Disclosure? Did

00:25:03.049 --> 00:25:04.529
you see the documentary? Age of Disclosure. No,

00:25:04.569 --> 00:25:07.549
I haven't seen that. It's a new one. And it has

00:25:07.549 --> 00:25:11.069
a hypothesis. It has a theory of why there hasn't

00:25:11.069 --> 00:25:13.430
been disclosure. And a lot of it has to do with

00:25:13.430 --> 00:25:16.950
the legal implications because too many people

00:25:16.950 --> 00:25:20.750
have been misappropriating funds if this is real.

00:25:20.970 --> 00:25:22.950
Sure. So if this is real – Like if there's recovered

00:25:22.950 --> 00:25:25.869
alien crash objects, if those have been parceled

00:25:25.869 --> 00:25:28.210
out to private companies. Exactly. That's exactly

00:25:28.210 --> 00:25:31.450
the dilemma. So say if, let's say, just – to

00:25:31.450 --> 00:25:33.750
make up a name, Lockheed Martin gets it. Sure.

00:25:33.809 --> 00:25:36.640
And they have this back -engineered craft that

00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:38.700
they're working on. But then Raytheon doesn't

00:25:38.700 --> 00:25:41.480
get it. Raytheon should be able to sue the government.

00:25:41.700 --> 00:25:43.420
Like, why did you do that? It's an unfair competitive

00:25:43.420 --> 00:25:46.980
advantage. Also, the people that are in charge

00:25:46.980 --> 00:25:50.599
of the projects, there's all this money that

00:25:50.599 --> 00:25:53.180
they have to lie to Congress about. And so in

00:25:53.180 --> 00:25:54.839
this documentary, one of the things that they're

00:25:54.839 --> 00:25:57.000
proposing, guys like Lou Elizondo and like, what

00:25:57.000 --> 00:25:59.819
is the path to sanity with all this stuff? One

00:25:59.819 --> 00:26:01.859
of the things they're proposing is amnesty. Just

00:26:01.859 --> 00:26:04.259
give like blanket amnesty. Tell us what the fuck

00:26:04.259 --> 00:26:07.549
you know. Let's go. go. And I assume a limited

00:26:07.549 --> 00:26:10.410
time amnesty, and the amnesty only applies to

00:26:10.410 --> 00:26:13.470
what is disclosed in this amnesty. It doesn't

00:26:13.470 --> 00:26:16.069
apply beyond that. But also, if it's government,

00:26:16.289 --> 00:26:17.970
you know there's a lot of fraud and waste. Sure.

00:26:18.069 --> 00:26:20.369
So even if these guys are just monkeying around

00:26:20.369 --> 00:26:23.049
with billions of dollars, a little yacht here,

00:26:23.170 --> 00:26:25.190
a little vacation here, a little Cayman Islands

00:26:25.190 --> 00:26:29.849
there. So stuff is probably real ugly. Right.

00:26:29.970 --> 00:26:32.089
And they've been doing this for, if it's real,

00:26:32.210 --> 00:26:35.230
they've been doing this for decades with no oversight.

00:26:35.450 --> 00:26:37.390
Yep. So they probably are – they're a little

00:26:37.390 --> 00:26:40.130
wild. They're a little feral by now. I mean it's

00:26:40.130 --> 00:26:42.130
just across the board. Our country has been spending

00:26:42.130 --> 00:26:45.710
so much money on what is supposed to be for national

00:26:45.710 --> 00:26:49.230
security. But in reality, it's a lot of – it

00:26:49.230 --> 00:26:51.309
has nothing to do with that. And so that was

00:26:51.309 --> 00:26:53.210
why I got into – that was why I got into the

00:26:53.210 --> 00:26:55.470
defense space. Isn't that with everything though,

00:26:55.529 --> 00:26:57.170
right? It's like that's how it is with charities

00:26:57.170 --> 00:26:59.349
as well. It's with everything, but it's a question

00:26:59.349 --> 00:27:03.559
of – how you can apply targeted pressure as a

00:27:03.559 --> 00:27:05.500
private individual, right? So yeah, like charities,

00:27:05.619 --> 00:27:08.220
there's a lot of graft going on. But what can

00:27:08.220 --> 00:27:10.420
I really do to stop that at each of these charities,

00:27:10.500 --> 00:27:12.900
right? Like there's no one charity that kind

00:27:12.900 --> 00:27:16.440
of dominates, right? It's a thousand grains of

00:27:16.440 --> 00:27:21.599
rice. Whereas the Department of Defense is one

00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:24.420
giant entity with a trillion dollar a year budget.

00:27:24.579 --> 00:27:26.819
And so it's much easier, like if you wanted to...

00:27:27.240 --> 00:27:30.779
Say $100 billion a year for taxpayers. You kind

00:27:30.779 --> 00:27:33.279
of have to go after the big concentrated chunks.

00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:35.660
You might be able to do that going after healthcare

00:27:35.660 --> 00:27:39.420
problems, maybe education problems, definitely

00:27:39.420 --> 00:27:41.920
going after Department of Defense problems. And

00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:44.299
I know a lot more about how to build good technology

00:27:44.299 --> 00:27:48.799
than I do about healthcare. If these were all

00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:51.400
private companies, they would never survive the

00:27:51.400 --> 00:27:53.920
way they're running. Correct. Well, I mean, yeah,

00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:56.329
these government agencies. When they make mistakes,

00:27:56.509 --> 00:27:58.809
they don't go out of business. And in fact, they

00:27:58.809 --> 00:28:01.009
can make bad mistakes over and over and over

00:28:01.009 --> 00:28:06.329
again and still remain in business. I do think

00:28:06.329 --> 00:28:08.250
– I think we're turning a corner with some of

00:28:08.250 --> 00:28:10.829
this. Did you see the new secretary of the army,

00:28:10.930 --> 00:28:14.990
Dan Driscoll's AUSA talk yesterday? No, I did

00:28:14.990 --> 00:28:17.089
not. Oh, man. It might be worth pulling it up.

00:28:17.150 --> 00:28:21.650
He pulls up this piece of hardware and he's like,

00:28:21.710 --> 00:28:25.769
hey, this little thing – It costs this insane

00:28:25.769 --> 00:28:28.369
amount of money, and we were able to make it

00:28:28.369 --> 00:28:31.130
in our own lab, just 3D print it for like $10.

00:28:31.509 --> 00:28:33.309
And so that's what we're going to be doing now.

00:28:33.390 --> 00:28:37.019
And he killed the... joint -like tactical vehicle

00:28:37.019 --> 00:28:39.900
program. He killed this new kind of boondoggle

00:28:39.900 --> 00:28:43.079
of a robotic tank program where it was going

00:28:43.079 --> 00:28:45.279
to be millions of dollars for these robot tanks

00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:47.099
that were going to get blown up by $300 drones.

00:28:48.859 --> 00:28:51.180
There's just kind of been no rules, just going

00:28:51.180 --> 00:28:53.259
and axing all of the dumb stuff that doesn't

00:28:53.259 --> 00:28:55.839
make sense and then taking a knife to these companies

00:28:55.839 --> 00:28:58.660
that have been charging way too much money, which

00:28:58.660 --> 00:29:00.640
is very different from the past. It's very rare.

00:29:00.779 --> 00:29:03.619
It has been a long time since you saw a secretary

00:29:03.619 --> 00:29:09.109
level official. Being willing to publicly contraindicate

00:29:09.109 --> 00:29:11.009
defense companies and say you're screwing over

00:29:11.009 --> 00:29:14.650
taxpayers and it ends here. I'm actually pretty

00:29:14.650 --> 00:29:17.150
optimistic about this across the services. I

00:29:17.150 --> 00:29:20.210
think people are fed up. Do you think Doge sort

00:29:20.210 --> 00:29:23.430
of started that ball moving and then – I think

00:29:23.430 --> 00:29:25.990
it did. That direction is sort of momentum is

00:29:25.990 --> 00:29:28.349
headed on its side right now? I think the – The

00:29:28.349 --> 00:29:30.569
Doge thing was interesting because it wasn't

00:29:30.569 --> 00:29:32.890
even the technique so much like the techniques

00:29:32.890 --> 00:29:34.789
where they kind of went into the data on like

00:29:34.789 --> 00:29:36.950
USAID and looked through all of this stuff and

00:29:36.950 --> 00:29:40.009
like basically where the data science of it is

00:29:40.009 --> 00:29:43.069
what allowed them to find the graft. That doesn't

00:29:43.069 --> 00:29:46.170
really apply to finding the problems in DOD because

00:29:46.170 --> 00:29:49.049
it's just so much more deeply buried. But it

00:29:49.049 --> 00:29:51.250
kind of gave people permission to go look at

00:29:51.250 --> 00:29:52.970
these things. Like it gave people permission

00:29:52.970 --> 00:29:56.150
to even say, I believe there is billions of dollars

00:29:56.150 --> 00:29:59.650
in waste in my department. I'm going to do something

00:29:59.650 --> 00:30:01.049
about it. I don't think people felt like they

00:30:01.049 --> 00:30:03.859
had. like psychic permission to do that five

00:30:03.859 --> 00:30:06.359
years ago. Oh, wow. That's interesting. Well,

00:30:06.380 --> 00:30:08.039
I mean, let's go to like kind of like. So you

00:30:08.039 --> 00:30:09.559
just didn't want to rock the boat. Well, I mean,

00:30:09.599 --> 00:30:11.599
let's go to like the height of and not even making

00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:13.539
it political, just timeline wise. Go to the like

00:30:13.539 --> 00:30:15.700
the middle of the Biden administration. Could

00:30:15.700 --> 00:30:18.700
you imagine any official in that area, like secretary

00:30:18.700 --> 00:30:22.220
or chair or anybody coming out and saying, my

00:30:22.220 --> 00:30:25.660
department is wasting billions of dollars. We

00:30:25.660 --> 00:30:28.940
are taking money from taxpayers and using it.

00:30:29.240 --> 00:30:32.619
on absurd nonsense. That would never happen five

00:30:32.619 --> 00:30:35.059
years ago. And I think the Doge stuff gave people

00:30:35.059 --> 00:30:37.819
permission to come out and say that and for them

00:30:37.819 --> 00:30:42.279
to be seen not as crazy, but as just being honest

00:30:42.279 --> 00:30:44.059
about the truth. So when you see the Secretary

00:30:44.059 --> 00:30:46.240
of the Army come out and say, we are wasting

00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:48.640
billions of dollars on total bullshit and we

00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:51.299
are getting screwed this, that way and the other,

00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:55.400
I think that's a really... That's really good

00:30:55.400 --> 00:30:57.400
development. Well, it also seems like it's a

00:30:57.400 --> 00:30:59.920
really shitty way to compete with other countries

00:30:59.920 --> 00:31:03.819
that operate very efficiently, like their private

00:31:03.819 --> 00:31:06.180
companies. Correct. Like other countries, like

00:31:06.180 --> 00:31:08.880
China, the government fully embedded in private

00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:11.039
companies and the private companies are competing

00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:12.839
against each other. Civil military fusion. Right.

00:31:13.059 --> 00:31:15.440
Well, and it goes even beyond that. We're like,

00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:17.519
you know, central planning has downsides, but

00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:19.519
it does have upsides. And one of the interesting

00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:21.970
things there is also like. There are some people

00:31:21.970 --> 00:31:23.769
who are being accused of corruption because they

00:31:23.769 --> 00:31:24.990
just want to kill them and get them out of the

00:31:24.990 --> 00:31:26.690
way for political reasons. There's other people

00:31:26.690 --> 00:31:28.349
who are actually corrupt and they're going in.

00:31:28.410 --> 00:31:30.529
And when people are wasting money, they're not

00:31:30.529 --> 00:31:33.230
going and saying, oh, well, you kind of wasted

00:31:33.230 --> 00:31:35.210
a few billion dollars, but we're going to give

00:31:35.210 --> 00:31:37.410
you another shot and try this again. They just

00:31:37.410 --> 00:31:40.970
they just they just imprison them for treason

00:31:40.970 --> 00:31:43.269
and or kill them. I'm not saying that's what

00:31:43.269 --> 00:31:46.109
we should do exactly. But I think that there's

00:31:46.109 --> 00:31:48.490
a scale to all of these things on scale of, you

00:31:48.490 --> 00:31:51.240
know, give them another shot. versus shoot them

00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:52.920
in the head for treason, we could probably move

00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:55.799
in that direction without going all of the way.

00:31:55.880 --> 00:31:57.779
And it would probably be healthy for our country's

00:31:57.779 --> 00:32:00.619
national security. Would that be the like if

00:32:00.619 --> 00:32:03.200
you ideally would it be that all this national

00:32:03.200 --> 00:32:05.099
security stuff was handled by a private company?

00:32:05.160 --> 00:32:07.799
Would that be like ideal in terms of efficiency,

00:32:08.299 --> 00:32:11.400
in terms of technological innovation, implementing

00:32:11.400 --> 00:32:16.369
ideas? I think that. I'm not suggesting that.

00:32:16.430 --> 00:32:19.329
I'm just saying there's problems with running

00:32:19.329 --> 00:32:22.269
a government. I've got a strong opinion here.

00:32:22.450 --> 00:32:24.710
I think that what you want, it's not a private

00:32:24.710 --> 00:32:27.730
company. It needs to be done by competing entities.

00:32:28.150 --> 00:32:31.150
If it's private, and at least one of them has

00:32:31.150 --> 00:32:33.549
to be private. I don't even really mind the government

00:32:33.549 --> 00:32:36.150
doing something if they're not being favored.

00:32:36.430 --> 00:32:38.720
In other words, if there's some government office

00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:40.559
that is competing with multiple private sector

00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:42.680
companies. Like the post office versus UPS. Exactly.

00:32:42.759 --> 00:32:44.960
Although that's a little unfair in that, I don't

00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:46.559
know how deep, by the way, I'm very deep on this.

00:32:46.599 --> 00:32:49.119
Like, I don't understand why we give the USPS

00:32:49.119 --> 00:32:52.990
a monopoly on normal mail. Are you familiar with

00:32:52.990 --> 00:32:55.150
this whole bit? Yeah, it's a little weird. They're

00:32:55.150 --> 00:32:57.309
the only way you can get chickens shipped, too.

00:32:57.609 --> 00:33:00.109
I didn't know that. Yeah, if you have baby chicks,

00:33:00.309 --> 00:33:02.549
they send them through the regular mail, but

00:33:02.549 --> 00:33:04.309
they won't send them UPS. That's so interesting.

00:33:04.569 --> 00:33:06.289
Well, it's the same thing with firearms. You

00:33:06.289 --> 00:33:09.470
can only send them USPS. I don't know why we've

00:33:09.470 --> 00:33:11.589
given a private company a monopoly. If there

00:33:11.589 --> 00:33:13.170
was a private company that had the same monopoly

00:33:13.170 --> 00:33:15.890
that the USPS does, and they were using it to

00:33:15.890 --> 00:33:19.950
send... 100 pounds of junk mail to every American

00:33:19.950 --> 00:33:21.990
every year, there's no way they would survive.

00:33:22.309 --> 00:33:25.109
They would be regulated out of existence. What

00:33:25.109 --> 00:33:29.150
you really want is competition. You want organizations,

00:33:29.490 --> 00:33:31.930
private or public, that when they trip and fall,

00:33:32.069 --> 00:33:33.789
they skin their own knees instead of getting

00:33:33.789 --> 00:33:36.349
bailed out by taxpayers. You want them to live

00:33:36.349 --> 00:33:40.470
in fear, be highly competitive. Make their audits,

00:33:40.470 --> 00:33:43.410
by the way. Yeah, exactly. And they have to survive

00:33:43.410 --> 00:33:45.150
an auditing process. They have to be accountable

00:33:45.150 --> 00:33:49.109
to whether it's a board or to some committee.

00:33:49.609 --> 00:33:51.369
And the problem is right now we don't have a

00:33:51.369 --> 00:33:53.049
lot of that. I will say, though, you asked should

00:33:53.049 --> 00:33:56.930
these national security programs be in the hands

00:33:56.930 --> 00:33:58.329
of private companies. I think that's true for

00:33:58.329 --> 00:34:00.410
the development of the technology. However, it

00:34:00.410 --> 00:34:03.650
can never, ever be in the hands of private companies.

00:34:04.190 --> 00:34:06.269
When it comes to the actual national security

00:34:06.269 --> 00:34:09.389
policy of what we are building or who we are

00:34:09.389 --> 00:34:11.030
building it for or where it should go. Of course.

00:34:11.150 --> 00:34:14.530
I get people all the time who come to me, usually

00:34:14.530 --> 00:34:16.769
people who are more skeptical of government.

00:34:17.809 --> 00:34:20.869
And yet they say, Palmer, aren't there countries

00:34:20.869 --> 00:34:23.670
you would commit to never building for? Would

00:34:23.670 --> 00:34:26.110
you just build for whoever gives you money? And

00:34:26.110 --> 00:34:28.670
I say, well, look, my job is to do what the government

00:34:28.670 --> 00:34:31.420
tells me. They're the – They're the ones who

00:34:31.420 --> 00:34:32.800
decide who are going to work more or not. They

00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:34.639
say, how could you do that? How could you work

00:34:34.639 --> 00:34:36.639
with this country or that country? How could

00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:37.900
you build this type of system or that type of

00:34:37.900 --> 00:34:39.260
system? And my point to them is, do you want

00:34:39.260 --> 00:34:42.360
to live in a corporatocracy where big tech CEOs

00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:45.960
get to decide the de facto foreign policy and

00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:48.159
military policy of the United States? Like, you

00:34:48.159 --> 00:34:50.809
should. If I were in a position to make those

00:34:50.809 --> 00:34:52.829
decisions, something's gone very wrong in this

00:34:52.829 --> 00:34:55.469
country because you can't vote me out. You can't

00:34:55.469 --> 00:34:58.630
elect my competitor. And so a lot of people who

00:34:58.630 --> 00:35:00.809
normally are skeptical of the government and

00:35:00.809 --> 00:35:03.389
government power and overreach, suddenly they

00:35:03.389 --> 00:35:06.050
look to the private sector for, oh, like the

00:35:06.050 --> 00:35:07.469
private sector is going to regulate this. To

00:35:07.469 --> 00:35:09.309
me, that's the most like cyberpunk dystopian

00:35:09.309 --> 00:35:11.329
thing either. Imagine like me and a bunch of

00:35:11.329 --> 00:35:13.110
weapons executives sitting in a room like, so

00:35:13.110 --> 00:35:15.929
which countries are on the green list this year?

00:35:16.769 --> 00:35:18.690
I don't know. I was thinking we could sell some

00:35:18.690 --> 00:35:20.630
missile defense to those guys, and I think we

00:35:20.630 --> 00:35:22.449
should sell some offensive weapons to those guys.

00:35:22.449 --> 00:35:26.510
No, that has to be the government, unless you

00:35:26.510 --> 00:35:28.050
just don't believe in democracy at all. If you

00:35:28.050 --> 00:35:32.409
believe that we cannot elect officials that are

00:35:32.409 --> 00:35:34.050
accountable, then that's a different thing. But

00:35:34.050 --> 00:35:36.190
I'm not that black -pilled. I'm not that black

00:35:36.190 --> 00:35:38.530
-pilled either, but I'm getting there. Look,

00:35:39.389 --> 00:35:42.369
sometimes I see it too. I think that what it

00:35:42.369 --> 00:35:45.190
is is inevitably when you have a pendulum, sometimes

00:35:45.190 --> 00:35:47.590
it will swing too far. And I but I think the

00:35:47.590 --> 00:35:49.570
good is it can correct. I mean, like, look at

00:35:49.570 --> 00:35:51.210
a lot of our misadventures in the Middle East

00:35:51.210 --> 00:35:53.550
is a really good example where there were a lot

00:35:53.550 --> 00:35:56.750
of things like. The government caused a lot of

00:35:56.750 --> 00:35:57.829
things to happen that I think never would have

00:35:57.829 --> 00:35:59.550
happened had people really known the truth behind

00:35:59.550 --> 00:36:02.070
a lot of those actions. But in the end, we did

00:36:02.070 --> 00:36:03.789
have the ability to hold them accountable. Now,

00:36:03.789 --> 00:36:05.449
the real problem is that people didn't hold them

00:36:05.449 --> 00:36:07.130
accountable. Like there's a lot of people today

00:36:07.130 --> 00:36:10.349
where they're not really that worked up about

00:36:10.349 --> 00:36:12.150
some of these people in government who lied to

00:36:12.150 --> 00:36:14.110
us. But I would say that's a fault of the American

00:36:14.110 --> 00:36:16.670
people, not of the democratic process. It just

00:36:16.670 --> 00:36:19.210
means people don't care about that issue as much,

00:36:19.250 --> 00:36:21.219
which – I think they should care more. I think

00:36:21.219 --> 00:36:23.579
they're also not that informed, like universally.

00:36:24.139 --> 00:36:26.440
Now, is that because they don't want to be or

00:36:26.440 --> 00:36:28.420
because they can't be? It's difficult because

00:36:28.420 --> 00:36:31.179
most people don't have time. I think that's a

00:36:31.179 --> 00:36:33.239
big part of it. That does make it hard. That

00:36:33.239 --> 00:36:35.179
does make it hard. But I mean, I think that,

00:36:35.219 --> 00:36:37.860
you know, not to butter you up, but... This is

00:36:37.860 --> 00:36:40.039
one of the things where shows like yours have

00:36:40.039 --> 00:36:41.619
made a huge difference, where they've been able

00:36:41.619 --> 00:36:43.980
to take things that are pretty complex for a

00:36:43.980 --> 00:36:46.519
person to figure out from first principles. Stories

00:36:46.519 --> 00:36:48.239
that they would never read about in establishment

00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:49.920
media, like, let's say, the New York Times or

00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:51.639
Wall Street Journal, which, by the way, is dependent

00:36:51.639 --> 00:36:53.420
on continued access to the U .S. government.

00:36:53.539 --> 00:36:55.219
They can't just go out and burn everybody in

00:36:55.219 --> 00:36:56.619
the government or nobody will ever talk to them.

00:36:57.230 --> 00:36:58.650
You've taken a lot of these stories and put them

00:36:58.650 --> 00:37:00.409
into a format where the guy who's busy, he's

00:37:00.409 --> 00:37:02.289
in his truck, he's on his way to the work site,

00:37:02.349 --> 00:37:04.909
can actually become informed on these issues.

00:37:05.090 --> 00:37:07.309
And as someone who is a journalism major, I've

00:37:07.309 --> 00:37:09.769
been so happy to see that shift because I wanted

00:37:09.769 --> 00:37:11.610
to be a journalist because there were no good

00:37:11.610 --> 00:37:13.650
technology journalists. And I was good at technology,

00:37:13.789 --> 00:37:16.889
figured I was going to beat all these guys and

00:37:16.889 --> 00:37:18.250
be a better technology journalist. Oh, that's

00:37:18.250 --> 00:37:19.829
interesting. In the end, I ended up dropping

00:37:19.829 --> 00:37:22.449
out of school and starting Oculus instead. That

00:37:22.449 --> 00:37:26.380
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00:38:40.599 --> 00:38:46.400
That's BetterHelp .com slash J -R -E. But yeah,

00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:48.860
I think you would agree, it is getting easier

00:38:48.860 --> 00:38:51.800
to become educated on these things. Like, 10

00:38:51.800 --> 00:38:53.719
years, what would you have done? It is in America,

00:38:53.920 --> 00:38:55.840
but it's a little disconcerting. Like, when you

00:38:55.840 --> 00:38:58.000
see the way they're handling things in Europe.

00:38:58.159 --> 00:38:59.960
Oh, sure. Like, it's getting really weird in

00:38:59.960 --> 00:39:02.440
the UK. 12 ,000 arrests this year for social

00:39:02.440 --> 00:39:05.119
media posts about immigration, and now they want

00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:06.119
everybody to have a digital ID. You got a license

00:39:06.119 --> 00:39:08.460
for that meme, mate? Yeah, it's getting really

00:39:08.460 --> 00:39:12.139
weird. And, you know, as that... Arrests for,

00:39:12.280 --> 00:39:15.900
uh... posting disturbing or offensive content.

00:39:16.099 --> 00:39:18.699
Yes, or annoying. Could I share a little story

00:39:18.699 --> 00:39:23.900
there? This has been so funny watching this in

00:39:23.900 --> 00:39:27.800
the UK because the first thing I ever did that

00:39:27.800 --> 00:39:30.250
anyone cared about was called Mod Retro. So it

00:39:30.250 --> 00:39:32.010
was this internet forum for people modifying

00:39:32.010 --> 00:39:36.050
game consoles, making portable versions of old

00:39:36.050 --> 00:39:38.769
game consoles, upgrading modern game consoles.

00:39:39.309 --> 00:39:41.670
Anyway, when we started the site, it was me and

00:39:41.670 --> 00:39:43.530
a few other people who were kind of running it.

00:39:43.570 --> 00:39:45.030
I was the founder and there were a few other

00:39:45.030 --> 00:39:46.650
co -administrators. And one of them was this

00:39:46.650 --> 00:39:49.190
British guy who went by the online handle of

00:39:49.190 --> 00:39:51.269
Bacteria. And I won't say his real name because

00:39:51.269 --> 00:39:53.409
it doesn't matter. But he was a British guy.

00:39:53.590 --> 00:39:58.230
He worked in... very, very low level British

00:39:58.230 --> 00:40:00.630
government. So like not a higher up at all. But

00:40:00.630 --> 00:40:02.449
he worked in a government, government agency,

00:40:02.750 --> 00:40:07.070
government office. And he was always, I think

00:40:07.070 --> 00:40:08.909
of all the people on this forum, which was mostly

00:40:08.909 --> 00:40:10.550
like teenagers and college students. He was kind

00:40:10.550 --> 00:40:12.389
of like the older guy. And he says, oh, we need

00:40:12.389 --> 00:40:14.369
to be kind about what we say, you know, that

00:40:14.369 --> 00:40:16.269
we shouldn't say anything that is bad. And he

00:40:16.269 --> 00:40:17.889
was always pushing that our rules should say

00:40:17.889 --> 00:40:20.250
it's that it was against our rules to offend

00:40:20.250 --> 00:40:22.440
anybody. And you shouldn't be able to say anything

00:40:22.440 --> 00:40:25.780
that was too offensive. And we mostly just made

00:40:25.780 --> 00:40:28.500
fun of him. Aha, he's the old British man. But

00:40:28.500 --> 00:40:30.380
what's interesting is he ended up eventually

00:40:30.380 --> 00:40:32.340
leaving the site because he thought people were

00:40:32.340 --> 00:40:34.099
being too mean to each other. And he started

00:40:34.099 --> 00:40:36.019
his own competing website. And the rule number

00:40:36.019 --> 00:40:40.639
one was no content that may make any member feel

00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:43.679
demeaned, uncomfortable, or insulted. We're like,

00:40:43.699 --> 00:40:47.480
well, we're all making fun of that. We're making

00:40:47.480 --> 00:40:49.920
our own little image macros and memes about it.

00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:52.840
made some fake ads for his website and put them

00:40:52.840 --> 00:40:56.719
on Facebook. And it said, come join Bacteria's

00:40:56.719 --> 00:40:59.460
website. Nobody will say anything to you that

00:40:59.460 --> 00:41:03.039
might offend or displease you. But what's interesting

00:41:03.039 --> 00:41:06.219
is as all this UK stuff has come around, I remember

00:41:06.219 --> 00:41:08.440
these kind of like long forgotten childhood memories.

00:41:08.519 --> 00:41:11.199
I was like 13 or 14 at the time. And I think

00:41:11.199 --> 00:41:13.940
it really is partly a cultural. reflection for

00:41:13.940 --> 00:41:16.260
them. Like there are a lot of people in the UK

00:41:16.260 --> 00:41:18.800
who genuinely think it's good to police this

00:41:18.800 --> 00:41:20.980
stuff. They don't want people to be able to go

00:41:20.980 --> 00:41:23.199
out and just cause a ruckus, you know, to to

00:41:23.199 --> 00:41:24.900
say things that are insulting in the streets.

00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:26.559
And of course, you have people who are protesting

00:41:26.559 --> 00:41:29.280
against that. But I think that also their surveillance

00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:31.119
state, you know, where there's cameras everywhere,

00:41:31.179 --> 00:41:32.739
it's actually a reflection of different cultural

00:41:32.739 --> 00:41:35.679
norms. And so the one good thing about what's

00:41:35.679 --> 00:41:37.159
going on in the UK is I don't think it would

00:41:37.159 --> 00:41:38.920
ever come over to America very easily because

00:41:38.920 --> 00:41:41.579
culturally, you know. We're not walking around

00:41:41.579 --> 00:41:44.159
feeling like it's – we don't feel like it's a

00:41:44.159 --> 00:41:46.699
crime to insult people. They feel like it should

00:41:46.699 --> 00:41:50.239
be. Maybe perhaps some of them do, but I think

00:41:50.239 --> 00:41:53.139
it's so overwhelmingly moving towards tyranny.

00:41:53.139 --> 00:41:54.719
I think it's the majority. That's the crazy –

00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:56.619
Really? I think the majority of people want it

00:41:56.619 --> 00:41:58.599
that way. I think that the majority of people

00:41:58.599 --> 00:42:02.360
in the UK have no problem with people who post

00:42:02.360 --> 00:42:06.570
spicy memes. getting a visit from the local constabulary.

00:42:06.829 --> 00:42:09.210
Wow, really? That has been my experience. Now,

00:42:09.210 --> 00:42:11.449
there are people who disagree, of course. And

00:42:11.449 --> 00:42:13.869
I would say maybe it's a growing group. They're

00:42:13.869 --> 00:42:16.349
a highly visible group. They're protesting. But

00:42:16.349 --> 00:42:20.210
if I had to bet, most people don't care. Most

00:42:20.210 --> 00:42:21.769
people in the UK just don't care about it one

00:42:21.769 --> 00:42:23.429
way or the other. And I think the group of people

00:42:23.429 --> 00:42:26.250
who are on the side of the control is larger

00:42:26.250 --> 00:42:28.349
than the people who are not on the side. By the

00:42:28.349 --> 00:42:30.849
way, similar thing in China. People talk about

00:42:30.849 --> 00:42:33.409
Chinese censorship on things like Tiananmen Square.

00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:36.199
That's actually the majority Chinese opinion,

00:42:36.280 --> 00:42:38.039
too. If you talk to most Chinese people and you

00:42:38.039 --> 00:42:39.599
say, well, what do you think about the fact that

00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:42.079
they're censoring all this discussion? The typical

00:42:42.079 --> 00:42:44.039
and I know lots of people in China, they say.

00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:47.659
That's an irrelevant issue from 30 or 40 years

00:42:47.659 --> 00:42:50.460
ago. It doesn't matter. Anyone who's trying to

00:42:50.460 --> 00:42:52.300
make every discussion about Tiananmen Square

00:42:52.300 --> 00:42:54.480
is just a troublemaker. And I don't care if they're

00:42:54.480 --> 00:42:56.239
shut down. I'm glad that they're not clogging

00:42:56.239 --> 00:42:57.880
the comments. And I'm glad those people are being

00:42:57.880 --> 00:43:01.199
pushed out of the conversation. And that's such

00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:03.480
a pretty normal opinion. Don't cause trouble

00:43:03.480 --> 00:43:05.360
needlessly. Now, these same people might say,

00:43:05.440 --> 00:43:07.619
I have strong opinions about the COVID lockdown.

00:43:08.730 --> 00:43:09.929
of information locked down in China. Like they

00:43:09.929 --> 00:43:11.510
might say, I don't like that the Chinese government

00:43:11.510 --> 00:43:13.650
is locking down on, you know, locking us in our

00:43:13.650 --> 00:43:15.969
apartments. But when it comes to discussion of

00:43:15.969 --> 00:43:19.250
political issues, China in general, they think

00:43:19.250 --> 00:43:20.829
that people who bring this up, like you would

00:43:20.829 --> 00:43:23.170
just be a troublemaker. They just say, ah, that

00:43:23.170 --> 00:43:25.269
Joe Rogan, he's a troublemaker. Why is he bringing

00:43:25.269 --> 00:43:26.869
up all these problems from the past? It's irrelevant.

00:43:27.289 --> 00:43:30.610
Why are we allowing this guy to take up our public

00:43:30.610 --> 00:43:32.610
spaces? Like if you're public protesting in public

00:43:32.610 --> 00:43:35.230
space, they're not here. You've probably seen

00:43:35.230 --> 00:43:36.710
protesters you didn't agree with. And you said,

00:43:36.750 --> 00:43:39.010
you know, I'm glad they're doing something they

00:43:39.010 --> 00:43:40.570
believe in. I'm glad George Soros is sending

00:43:40.570 --> 00:43:43.710
them checks. Maybe not those, but true grassroots.

00:43:43.869 --> 00:43:44.969
You know, the guys who scribble their signs.

00:43:45.030 --> 00:43:47.329
Look, it's important. But that's not a thing

00:43:47.329 --> 00:43:48.230
in China. It's an important part of our First

00:43:48.230 --> 00:43:49.510
Amendment. People in China see that and they

00:43:49.510 --> 00:43:52.030
say, look at those troublemakers ruining my beautiful

00:43:52.030 --> 00:43:53.630
public space. It's a very interesting cultural

00:43:53.630 --> 00:43:55.429
value difference. Well, they also don't have

00:43:55.429 --> 00:43:58.269
any perception of the ability to change the government.

00:43:58.570 --> 00:44:01.039
That's right. That's right. There's no one's

00:44:01.039 --> 00:44:03.300
like, I think we can do this. I think we can

00:44:03.300 --> 00:44:05.940
push them out. I think, nope. Yep. You ain't

00:44:05.940 --> 00:44:08.199
fixing shit. So put your nose down. Get to work.

00:44:08.420 --> 00:44:10.420
I wonder if that really is the difference. I

00:44:10.420 --> 00:44:12.059
mean, in Europe. It has to be. Well, in Europe,

00:44:12.059 --> 00:44:14.059
you see. They kind of resign themselves to the

00:44:14.059 --> 00:44:16.800
fact that they're not participating. Yep. You

00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:17.699
know, it's not an experiment. It's a lot easier

00:44:17.699 --> 00:44:19.599
to be apolitical when it's a futile exercise.

00:44:19.820 --> 00:44:21.139
Yeah. It's like, what are you going to do? Stop

00:44:21.139 --> 00:44:23.449
being a troublemaker. Of course, part of this

00:44:23.449 --> 00:44:24.909
– it comes down to an attitude. I mean you're

00:44:24.909 --> 00:44:26.590
probably familiar with the numbers in the American

00:44:26.590 --> 00:44:28.949
Revolution. Only about 3 percent of America supported

00:44:28.949 --> 00:44:31.949
the revolution. It was a really niche movement

00:44:31.949 --> 00:44:36.590
of very dedicated, motivated people. And so the

00:44:36.590 --> 00:44:38.889
best way to probably stop that 3 percent from

00:44:38.889 --> 00:44:41.469
existing in China is to convince them that it's

00:44:41.469 --> 00:44:44.150
futile and to kind of fuel that cynicism almost.

00:44:45.050 --> 00:44:47.800
You see this in Russia too. I mean, military

00:44:47.800 --> 00:44:50.460
dictatorships. So same deal. One of the conclusions

00:44:50.460 --> 00:44:52.659
I've come to, you know, I work in the weapons

00:44:52.659 --> 00:44:56.280
industry and I've seen a lot of cool stuff. I've

00:44:56.280 --> 00:44:58.880
seen stuff that U .S. is making, that I'm making.

00:44:59.679 --> 00:45:01.699
I'm familiar with a lot of the weapons systems

00:45:01.699 --> 00:45:06.000
that Russia and China have in fielding or in

00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:07.920
progress. Some of the stuff that China and Russia

00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:10.610
are doing. I mean, it's as sci -fi as what the

00:45:10.610 --> 00:45:12.429
United States is doing. But I've come to the

00:45:12.429 --> 00:45:13.989
conclusion that their most powerful weapon is

00:45:13.989 --> 00:45:16.570
not any bomb or missile or drone. It's their

00:45:16.570 --> 00:45:19.349
ability to control people's minds through the

00:45:19.349 --> 00:45:22.110
media, through propaganda, through kind of state

00:45:22.110 --> 00:45:25.130
pressure. They convince them to believe things

00:45:25.130 --> 00:45:27.469
about the world that weren't true, that aren't

00:45:27.469 --> 00:45:30.269
true. And then they're basically making people

00:45:30.269 --> 00:45:32.150
willing to fight for causes that don't really

00:45:32.150 --> 00:45:34.010
exist. Like a good example, this is Ukraine.

00:45:34.570 --> 00:45:37.070
A lot of the Russians who went to fight in Ukraine

00:45:37.070 --> 00:45:38.929
in the early days, I think the truth is out now.

00:45:39.050 --> 00:45:40.789
But when they were first invading, they were

00:45:40.789 --> 00:45:43.929
told that the people of Ukraine want to be liberated.

00:45:44.110 --> 00:45:45.889
You're going to be a hero. You're going to go

00:45:45.889 --> 00:45:47.769
over there like they desperately want Russia

00:45:47.769 --> 00:45:50.570
to save them and reunify them. And it's just

00:45:50.570 --> 00:45:54.110
this, you know, Kiev led cabal funded by the

00:45:54.110 --> 00:45:57.110
West with it as it's barely holding on to the

00:45:57.110 --> 00:46:00.769
country and keeping and staying in power. And

00:46:00.769 --> 00:46:03.050
people in Russia really believed that. Like the

00:46:03.050 --> 00:46:04.989
guys who were fighting on the front lines, the

00:46:04.989 --> 00:46:06.650
guys who were flying tanks and helicopters, they

00:46:06.650 --> 00:46:09.829
believed it. When I went to Ukraine during the

00:46:09.829 --> 00:46:12.849
war, one of the things that I got to see was

00:46:12.849 --> 00:46:15.329
there was this helicopter wreck. It was an attack

00:46:15.329 --> 00:46:17.269
helicopter that was trying to seize an airfield

00:46:17.269 --> 00:46:19.869
of a private aerospace company. And the guys

00:46:19.869 --> 00:46:22.210
actually shot it down themselves. Like they showed

00:46:22.210 --> 00:46:24.369
me videos of them wearing polo shirts, shooting

00:46:24.369 --> 00:46:27.010
down the helicopter in their parking lot. I mean,

00:46:27.010 --> 00:46:32.440
it's like crazy shit. So the pilots, the pilots

00:46:32.440 --> 00:46:34.559
kind of go bag, you know, this bag with all of

00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:36.920
his emergency and survival gear in it. It had

00:46:36.920 --> 00:46:39.699
three or four days of water, three or four days

00:46:39.699 --> 00:46:43.420
of food, another flight uniform, his dress uniform

00:46:43.420 --> 00:46:45.539
with dress shoes, because they were told they

00:46:45.539 --> 00:46:46.639
were going to be they said this is going to be

00:46:46.639 --> 00:46:48.219
a five day military operation. There's going

00:46:48.219 --> 00:46:52.420
to be parades. So dress uniform. And then 50

00:46:52.420 --> 00:46:54.900
condoms. This guy thought that he was going to

00:46:54.900 --> 00:46:56.699
be, he thought the women were going to be all

00:46:56.699 --> 00:46:58.519
over him. They were going to, he was going to

00:46:58.519 --> 00:47:01.300
need 50 condoms for the post -war celebration.

00:47:01.699 --> 00:47:04.599
Wow. And to me, that speaks to how brainwashed

00:47:04.599 --> 00:47:06.059
this guy was. And remember, helicopter pilots

00:47:06.059 --> 00:47:08.699
aren't like the dumb grunt. Right. I mean, he's

00:47:08.699 --> 00:47:10.360
probably one of the more highly educated people.

00:47:10.480 --> 00:47:12.940
Right. And they convinced him that the people

00:47:12.940 --> 00:47:15.460
of Ukraine wanted him to liberate them and that

00:47:15.460 --> 00:47:17.360
they were going to be so happy to see him that

00:47:17.360 --> 00:47:19.539
he was getting his dress uniform and 50 condoms.

00:47:19.800 --> 00:47:22.190
Wow. And there were similar stories. 50 is a

00:47:22.190 --> 00:47:24.670
lot. 50 is a lot. That guy's fucking up a storm.

00:47:24.809 --> 00:47:26.610
That's crazy. I will give him a little credit.

00:47:27.010 --> 00:47:28.869
50 condoms doesn't take up that much space in

00:47:28.869 --> 00:47:33.349
your bag. But it's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah. Very

00:47:33.349 --> 00:47:36.010
optimistic. Well, this wasn't the only guy. This

00:47:36.010 --> 00:47:37.429
was actually pretty common. Everybody had 50

00:47:37.429 --> 00:47:39.730
condoms? I don't know if everybody had 50. They

00:47:39.730 --> 00:47:41.789
all brought condoms. Well, a lot of guys had

00:47:41.789 --> 00:47:44.329
condoms. And a lot of people brought their dress

00:47:44.329 --> 00:47:46.090
uniforms. They thought that they were going to

00:47:46.090 --> 00:47:48.429
roll into Kiev, take over. The people wanted

00:47:48.429 --> 00:47:50.230
them to be in power and that they were going

00:47:50.230 --> 00:47:51.889
to be marching around town. People say, look,

00:47:52.070 --> 00:47:55.210
it's our liberators, our saviors. Now, of course,

00:47:55.230 --> 00:47:57.630
that's totally divorced from reality. Like whatever

00:47:57.630 --> 00:47:59.829
you however you feel about the politics of Ukraine

00:47:59.829 --> 00:48:02.710
and Russia and America, because they're all tightly

00:48:02.710 --> 00:48:05.349
intermingled. Right. That's clearly not reality.

00:48:05.670 --> 00:48:08.070
And so what I worry about is like the easy one

00:48:08.070 --> 00:48:10.960
is if China invades Taiwan. they're going to

00:48:10.960 --> 00:48:12.280
come up with a similar story. They're going to

00:48:12.280 --> 00:48:14.500
trick their people into thinking, oh, Taiwan

00:48:14.500 --> 00:48:16.719
wants to be reunified. You're fighting for the

00:48:16.719 --> 00:48:18.480
better cause. But then the really spooky thing

00:48:18.480 --> 00:48:21.090
is what happens when our media. pulls the same

00:48:21.090 --> 00:48:23.829
stunt. I would argue that what we did in the

00:48:23.829 --> 00:48:26.530
Middle East was driven by really not that different,

00:48:26.650 --> 00:48:28.949
right? I mean, a lot of the justification for

00:48:28.949 --> 00:48:31.630
going over there and doing this nation building.

00:48:31.809 --> 00:48:33.510
I mean, we were told all these stories. Oh, they

00:48:33.510 --> 00:48:36.469
want, they don't want, they want to get out from

00:48:36.469 --> 00:48:38.849
under the Taliban. They don't want to have these

00:48:38.849 --> 00:48:42.449
tribal rule. They do want democracy. And in reality,

00:48:42.510 --> 00:48:44.170
we were kind of sold a bill of goods. It just

00:48:44.170 --> 00:48:45.650
wasn't true. So it's easy to make fun of the

00:48:45.650 --> 00:48:49.230
Russian with his 50 condoms, but. We're not really

00:48:49.230 --> 00:48:51.909
that much better. Well, we also had a very distorted

00:48:51.909 --> 00:48:54.670
sense of what war is in the 20th century and

00:48:54.670 --> 00:48:57.190
the 21st century because of Desert Storm. Yes.

00:48:57.309 --> 00:48:59.690
So Desert Storm, we were like, we're the fucking

00:48:59.690 --> 00:49:01.849
shit. We're just going to roll in and kick everybody's

00:49:01.849 --> 00:49:04.710
ass. And it happened so quickly with so minimal

00:49:04.710 --> 00:49:07.269
casualties. And my grandpa, he wasn't military,

00:49:07.449 --> 00:49:09.889
but he was a United Airlines pilot for 45 years.

00:49:10.030 --> 00:49:12.230
And he was part of the civilian support element

00:49:12.230 --> 00:49:14.630
for Desert Storm. So he actually has a letter

00:49:14.630 --> 00:49:16.170
from the secretary of the Air Force that they

00:49:16.170 --> 00:49:18.039
sent to all of the commercial pilots. who were

00:49:18.039 --> 00:49:20.539
bringing troops and equipment back and forth

00:49:20.539 --> 00:49:22.800
for a few days. I mean, they were flying like

00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:26.260
crazy 24 -hour shifts, getting people in and

00:49:26.260 --> 00:49:29.559
out. But I mean, like, I remember my grandpa.

00:49:29.699 --> 00:49:33.739
He came out of that saying, man, nobody can stop

00:49:33.739 --> 00:49:36.000
us. I mean, we are just, we are unstoppable.

00:49:36.300 --> 00:49:38.260
If we want to go in and do something, we just

00:49:38.260 --> 00:49:40.699
go get it done. And I mean, he was convinced.

00:49:41.389 --> 00:49:43.489
But you're right. I think everybody was convinced

00:49:43.489 --> 00:49:45.829
by it. That's what everybody thought in the 1990s.

00:49:45.829 --> 00:49:47.230
They thought that the United States government

00:49:47.230 --> 00:49:49.510
and the military was so much more powerful. And

00:49:49.510 --> 00:49:52.150
it probably was. It was. For a while. Relatively

00:49:52.150 --> 00:49:55.170
speaking. Relatively speaking. For a while. Technology

00:49:55.170 --> 00:49:58.670
seems to be shifting all that stuff in a very

00:49:58.670 --> 00:50:02.260
weird place. Yep. And this is where I get concerned

00:50:02.260 --> 00:50:05.820
with China because they have complete compliance.

00:50:06.039 --> 00:50:08.619
Like their government and their private corporations,

00:50:08.900 --> 00:50:11.900
they're the same. They work together. And the

00:50:11.900 --> 00:50:13.519
stuff that they're producing in terms of like,

00:50:13.519 --> 00:50:15.159
if you pay attention to their electric cars.

00:50:15.320 --> 00:50:17.980
Oh, yeah. They have a 300 mile an hour car now.

00:50:18.380 --> 00:50:22.869
And their cars are. extremely cheap, and they

00:50:22.869 --> 00:50:25.909
are extremely good. Extremely good. Really nice

00:50:25.909 --> 00:50:28.570
cars. Crazy technology in terms of the ability

00:50:28.570 --> 00:50:31.250
to absorb bumps. Have you seen how smooth they

00:50:31.250 --> 00:50:34.250
are? They put champagne glasses on them. So one

00:50:34.250 --> 00:50:37.230
of the... That one I will push back a little

00:50:37.230 --> 00:50:38.630
bit. I've seen the demo you're talking about.

00:50:38.869 --> 00:50:41.750
There are German and US cars that do that type

00:50:41.750 --> 00:50:43.889
of thing, but they're not the cars that people

00:50:43.889 --> 00:50:45.750
want here. So this is a whole other interesting

00:50:45.750 --> 00:50:51.039
cultural... This is one of my... This is such

00:50:51.039 --> 00:50:55.340
an interesting rabbit hole. So in China, people

00:50:55.340 --> 00:50:58.039
with money don't drive cars. They're driven.

00:50:58.159 --> 00:51:01.559
That is the culture. You don't drive. You are

00:51:01.559 --> 00:51:04.019
driven. If you have really any money. Of course,

00:51:04.039 --> 00:51:05.679
there's a few rich guys buying sports cars. But

00:51:05.679 --> 00:51:08.440
in general, the wealthy in China don't buy cars

00:51:08.440 --> 00:51:10.000
to drive themselves. That's interesting. And

00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:12.500
so, for example, Tesla has a China exclusive

00:51:12.500 --> 00:51:16.079
model of the Model S, which has teeny tiny little

00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:18.880
front driver and passenger seats. And then it

00:51:18.880 --> 00:51:21.719
has. Two seats in the rear with extremely long

00:51:21.719 --> 00:51:24.079
legroom, not like three in a row, but like just

00:51:24.079 --> 00:51:26.840
two giant chairs. And they kind of cram the they

00:51:26.840 --> 00:51:29.500
cram the driver way forward to create this gigantic.

00:51:29.619 --> 00:51:31.480
I think it doesn't even have a trunk. That's

00:51:31.480 --> 00:51:33.139
right. They pulled the trunk out of it even or

00:51:33.139 --> 00:51:36.139
maybe maybe just way smaller. And in China, that's

00:51:36.139 --> 00:51:37.639
what people want. So like their best selling.

00:51:38.139 --> 00:51:40.880
Mercedes -Benz, even American brands like Buick.

00:51:40.880 --> 00:51:43.159
We have these cars that are made to be driven

00:51:43.159 --> 00:51:45.940
in. So as a result, their most luxurious, most

00:51:45.940 --> 00:51:48.480
expensive cars have suspension that is designed

00:51:48.480 --> 00:51:52.219
to absorb all of the bumps, be extremely smooth

00:51:52.219 --> 00:51:53.960
because, you know, riding in the back. And it

00:51:53.960 --> 00:51:56.639
creates terrible, mushy road feel for the driver.

00:51:56.719 --> 00:51:59.969
Like in America. Rich people, they want to drive.

00:52:00.070 --> 00:52:02.170
And you want to feel the road. You want that

00:52:02.170 --> 00:52:05.409
sports car. And even our SUVs, people generally

00:52:05.409 --> 00:52:09.110
want that sports car -like feel. And so I guess

00:52:09.110 --> 00:52:10.710
I will push back only on the champagne glass

00:52:10.710 --> 00:52:11.969
thing because I've seen people saying this a

00:52:11.969 --> 00:52:15.269
lot. Believe me, there are a handful. You can

00:52:15.269 --> 00:52:20.909
buy an American Buick or even a Mercedes that

00:52:20.909 --> 00:52:24.280
is that good. But they're just not very popular

00:52:24.280 --> 00:52:26.880
here. In China, cars like that are much more

00:52:26.880 --> 00:52:29.199
popular. Cars that feel like shit to drive for

00:52:29.199 --> 00:52:32.119
the driver and are super mushy and bouncy. But

00:52:32.119 --> 00:52:34.019
for the guy in the back, his champagne glass

00:52:34.019 --> 00:52:35.800
doesn't fall over. That's interesting. So when

00:52:35.800 --> 00:52:37.860
it gets to a certain price point, then it becomes

00:52:37.860 --> 00:52:40.280
all about the passenger. Exactly. And it's not

00:52:40.280 --> 00:52:43.139
even when it gets to a certain price point. Long

00:52:43.139 --> 00:52:46.059
before you're buying a $100 ,000 car, you're

00:52:46.059 --> 00:52:49.599
being driven around. Even if you're halfway there,

00:52:49.699 --> 00:52:52.519
you're being driven around. Again, rich people

00:52:52.519 --> 00:52:54.739
there, they don't drive. They are driven. It

00:52:54.739 --> 00:52:56.760
is a cultural thing. It's a sign that you've

00:52:56.760 --> 00:52:59.619
made it as well. And also remember that their

00:52:59.619 --> 00:53:02.400
wages are so much lower that it's much more accessible.

00:53:02.619 --> 00:53:04.019
It's kind of like how you have these countries

00:53:04.019 --> 00:53:06.659
where like almost anybody who's middle class

00:53:06.659 --> 00:53:12.480
in like Southeast Asia has a live -in nanny and

00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:15.739
a live -in housekeeper. It's a little bit like

00:53:15.739 --> 00:53:17.519
that where like if you get to a certain point.

00:53:18.570 --> 00:53:21.210
and that happens pretty fast, you have a driver.

00:53:21.309 --> 00:53:22.610
If you don't have a driver, people are like,

00:53:22.710 --> 00:53:24.469
what the hell is going on? You're an eccentric

00:53:24.469 --> 00:53:27.150
if you are a rich guy who drives himself around.

00:53:27.610 --> 00:53:29.949
That's weird. It is weird. But they do have sports

00:53:29.949 --> 00:53:31.989
cars over there, like the electric sports car

00:53:31.989 --> 00:53:34.730
that goes 300 miles an hour. They do. And I would

00:53:34.730 --> 00:53:39.170
say largely those are export -focused. The broader

00:53:39.170 --> 00:53:41.230
markets want this. Do they sell them in America

00:53:41.230 --> 00:53:43.650
at all? They don't, but that's largely due to

00:53:43.650 --> 00:53:45.849
American policy being very protectionist against

00:53:45.849 --> 00:53:48.380
Chinese cars. The reason that Chinese... manufactured

00:53:48.380 --> 00:53:51.460
cars have not taken over the U .S. is not because

00:53:51.460 --> 00:53:54.059
Americans don't want them. And by the way, that

00:53:54.059 --> 00:53:56.559
seems kind of crazy because Japanese cars are

00:53:56.559 --> 00:53:58.920
ubiquitous. Japanese cars are ubiquitous from

00:53:58.920 --> 00:54:01.519
Japanese brands. But many or most of them are

00:54:01.519 --> 00:54:04.460
actually exactly like the most American car you

00:54:04.460 --> 00:54:07.519
can buy. I think right now it's either a Nissan

00:54:07.519 --> 00:54:09.860
or a Toyota outside of Tesla. Like Teslas are

00:54:09.860 --> 00:54:12.900
made in the U .S. But I think the most. I can't

00:54:12.900 --> 00:54:14.519
remember. It's either a Nissan or a Toyota is

00:54:14.519 --> 00:54:16.920
the most American pickup you can buy right now.

00:54:17.059 --> 00:54:19.460
Wow. And it's because we have a lot of our parts,

00:54:19.519 --> 00:54:21.599
even for our U .S.-made cars, made in Mexico,

00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:24.159
made in Canada, or made in Japan. That's such

00:54:24.159 --> 00:54:26.320
a dirty trick for someone who wants to drive

00:54:26.320 --> 00:54:27.980
a Chevy because they feel like it's an American

00:54:27.980 --> 00:54:30.659
brand. I'm buying American. I agree. I'm helping

00:54:30.659 --> 00:54:32.860
American jobs. But here's the – well, this is

00:54:32.860 --> 00:54:35.300
the point I was trying to get to is here's the

00:54:35.300 --> 00:54:36.480
problem. Let's say you said we're going to make

00:54:36.480 --> 00:54:39.019
an all -American version of the Chevy, and it's

00:54:39.019 --> 00:54:42.090
10 % more. People wouldn't buy it. Like that's

00:54:42.090 --> 00:54:45.030
when I say that, like people, I think, unfortunately,

00:54:45.090 --> 00:54:47.829
would buy these Chinese cars if they were for

00:54:47.829 --> 00:54:50.469
sale in the United States. People can say they

00:54:50.469 --> 00:54:52.230
want to support the U .S., but at the end of

00:54:52.230 --> 00:54:54.230
the day, they want to provide the best quality

00:54:54.230 --> 00:54:56.090
of life for their family. They have a fiduciary

00:54:56.090 --> 00:54:58.630
duty to do so. And so if they need to buy, like

00:54:58.630 --> 00:55:01.610
if they have a choice between an American truck

00:55:01.610 --> 00:55:07.119
or. A Chinese truck, a Chinese new TV and a Chinese

00:55:07.119 --> 00:55:10.239
new computer and a Chinese new HVAC system to

00:55:10.239 --> 00:55:13.500
replace one and their phone. How can I blame

00:55:13.500 --> 00:55:16.980
them for choosing the Chinese one? The only way

00:55:16.980 --> 00:55:18.920
we can solve this is for the United States to

00:55:18.920 --> 00:55:21.059
become competitive with China again, which means

00:55:21.059 --> 00:55:23.099
we need to get our energy costs down. We need

00:55:23.099 --> 00:55:25.300
to get our resource extraction costs down. Like,

00:55:25.320 --> 00:55:27.659
you know why these cars in China are cheap? It's

00:55:27.659 --> 00:55:29.900
not magic. It's because the cost of resource

00:55:29.900 --> 00:55:32.000
extraction is lower. The cost of making steel

00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:34.940
and aluminum is lower. The cost of building a

00:55:34.940 --> 00:55:36.360
factory is lower. And that's why you're able

00:55:36.360 --> 00:55:39.059
to buy an awesome car for $10 ,000 in China.

00:55:40.409 --> 00:55:42.670
cheapest thing you can buy is a shitbox for $17

00:55:42.670 --> 00:55:45.090
,000 or $18 ,000. And I mean, it's bad. Have

00:55:45.090 --> 00:55:47.190
you ever driven a $17 ,000 car? What do they

00:55:47.190 --> 00:55:49.349
have that's $17 ,000? What can you buy? I think

00:55:49.349 --> 00:55:51.210
you can buy a Nissan. Like a Chevy Volt or something?

00:55:51.469 --> 00:55:55.590
I think you can buy a Chevy Spark, which is actually

00:55:55.590 --> 00:55:58.429
not an electric car. The Bolt was an electric

00:55:58.429 --> 00:55:59.989
platform. I think you can buy a Chevy Spark.

00:56:00.269 --> 00:56:02.210
I think you can buy a Nissan Versa. Those are

00:56:02.210 --> 00:56:04.210
the two cheapest cars in America right now, I

00:56:04.210 --> 00:56:07.670
think. Both of them, I believe you can get them.

00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:12.019
out the door for less than $20 ,000. And look,

00:56:12.139 --> 00:56:15.579
I'm sorry, Chevy. I'm sorry, Nissan. I like those

00:56:15.579 --> 00:56:18.539
brands, but these cars are not the stewards of

00:56:18.539 --> 00:56:20.900
the brand. They're the college student ship boxes.

00:56:21.159 --> 00:56:23.480
Just transportation. And you can buy a car like

00:56:23.480 --> 00:56:26.320
that in China for $3 ,000 or $4 ,000. $3 ,000

00:56:26.320 --> 00:56:28.099
or $4 ,000 will get you a car that here is almost

00:56:28.099 --> 00:56:31.280
$20 ,000. And again, it's not magic. They're

00:56:31.280 --> 00:56:33.900
not genius. And people also, they kind of have

00:56:33.900 --> 00:56:35.690
this... there's this current attempt to kind

00:56:35.690 --> 00:56:37.610
of mythologize like, oh, well, they're geniuses.

00:56:37.610 --> 00:56:40.349
Like, they're just so good at it. If we would

00:56:40.349 --> 00:56:42.449
just do the basics right, we can be competitive.

00:56:42.530 --> 00:56:44.530
But we aren't doing the basics right. We've made

00:56:44.530 --> 00:56:47.289
energy so competitive and materials fabrication

00:56:47.289 --> 00:56:50.559
so expensive. I mean, how could we compete? I

00:56:50.559 --> 00:56:51.980
was watching an interview where I believe it

00:56:51.980 --> 00:56:53.980
was someone from Ford. One of the engineers from

00:56:53.980 --> 00:56:57.199
Ford made a visit to China. It was the CEO of

00:56:57.199 --> 00:56:59.639
Ford even. Even better. And he went with his

00:56:59.639 --> 00:57:01.699
whole engineering team. Yeah. And was humbled.

00:57:01.960 --> 00:57:04.079
That's right. Just like, oh, no. Well, I think

00:57:04.079 --> 00:57:06.659
he said when he came back, he said, I wanted

00:57:06.659 --> 00:57:09.519
to take the SUV I was driving back home with

00:57:09.519 --> 00:57:12.460
me. I mean, that's like he said, it's that good.

00:57:12.619 --> 00:57:14.739
I didn't want to stop driving it. That seems

00:57:14.739 --> 00:57:17.820
kind of fucked. I mean, that's very anti -competitive

00:57:17.820 --> 00:57:20.420
of us. You mean that we're locking the Chinese

00:57:20.420 --> 00:57:24.659
out? It's kind of a bitch ass move. Look, so

00:57:24.659 --> 00:57:26.820
like I lean libertarian and in general, I'm a

00:57:26.820 --> 00:57:29.659
fan of free markets. But there is something that

00:57:29.659 --> 00:57:32.800
makes us tricky, though. You tank the economy.

00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:34.400
Well, there's tanking the economy and there's

00:57:34.400 --> 00:57:38.019
also it isn't actually free. So we do need to

00:57:38.019 --> 00:57:41.099
do a better job on the basics. But China is also

00:57:41.099 --> 00:57:43.119
subsidizing these. Right. So they're actually

00:57:43.119 --> 00:57:45.869
putting money from other industries. to prop

00:57:45.869 --> 00:57:48.730
up these other industries. And so even if you

00:57:48.730 --> 00:57:50.789
let them freely compete, like if you let them

00:57:50.789 --> 00:57:54.530
go toe to toe, China would be thrilled if they

00:57:54.530 --> 00:57:56.789
could subsidize their way into destroying the

00:57:56.789 --> 00:57:59.809
American automotive apparatus, partly for economic

00:57:59.809 --> 00:58:01.710
reasons. But there's another reason that I don't

00:58:01.710 --> 00:58:03.690
know if you've thought of. How did the United

00:58:03.690 --> 00:58:06.769
States win World War II? I know that's a big

00:58:06.769 --> 00:58:08.010
picture question. A lot of it was manufacturing.

00:58:08.389 --> 00:58:11.380
Exactly. And that manufacturing. Some of it was

00:58:11.380 --> 00:58:13.860
new factories, but most of it was taking over

00:58:13.860 --> 00:58:16.880
old factories. So we took all of our farm implement

00:58:16.880 --> 00:58:19.460
factories, like John Deere and Caterpillar. They

00:58:19.460 --> 00:58:22.699
were building tanks and guns. We took all our

00:58:22.699 --> 00:58:25.139
automotive factories. We had them building aircraft.

00:58:25.500 --> 00:58:27.300
We had them building weapons. We had them building

00:58:27.300 --> 00:58:29.760
missiles. In fact, we even designed those weapons

00:58:29.760 --> 00:58:32.400
so they could be manufactured by those plants.

00:58:32.539 --> 00:58:35.699
But like to literally the specifics of how thick

00:58:35.699 --> 00:58:38.320
of a gauge of metal you could bend to a certain

00:58:38.320 --> 00:58:41.760
radius. We were limited by the automotive manufacturing

00:58:41.760 --> 00:58:44.860
machines as to what we could do in aircraft.

00:58:45.380 --> 00:58:48.039
And so we won because we had all of this automotive

00:58:48.039 --> 00:58:51.539
and other industrial capacity. China would love

00:58:51.539 --> 00:58:53.699
to wipe out the American automotive industry,

00:58:53.840 --> 00:58:56.119
partly for economic reasons, because it also

00:58:56.119 --> 00:58:58.139
means we will never be able to fight a war against

00:58:58.139 --> 00:59:02.219
them. Imagine an America with... We've lost a

00:59:02.219 --> 00:59:03.800
lot of manufacturing. You're probably familiar

00:59:03.800 --> 00:59:06.280
with that. We don't make nearly as much as we

00:59:06.280 --> 00:59:08.559
used to. But we still make a few things. We still

00:59:08.559 --> 00:59:11.280
have some things that we do. And cars is one

00:59:11.280 --> 00:59:12.940
of them. And we even export those cars. We're

00:59:12.940 --> 00:59:16.960
doing okay on cars. If China could wipe out our

00:59:16.960 --> 00:59:19.960
industrial capacity entirely, they never need

00:59:19.960 --> 00:59:21.739
to worry about fighting a war with the U .S.

00:59:21.739 --> 00:59:24.000
again because they know that we wouldn't be able

00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:26.119
to get back in the game fast enough to matter.

00:59:26.340 --> 00:59:29.320
And so that's China's aim there. And it gets

00:59:29.320 --> 00:59:31.139
back to what you talked about earlier. It's the

00:59:31.139 --> 00:59:34.079
civil -military fusion. So this is a – there's

00:59:34.079 --> 00:59:37.340
the economic war and the kinetic war that they

00:59:37.340 --> 00:59:40.179
could win with one move, which is out -competing

00:59:40.179 --> 00:59:42.360
our automotive industry. That's interesting.

00:59:42.579 --> 00:59:45.119
I never did think of that. Well, and like Andros

00:59:45.119 --> 00:59:46.579
has to think about this all the time because

00:59:46.579 --> 00:59:48.559
… Unlike a lot of these other defense companies

00:59:48.559 --> 00:59:50.980
that are designing weapons that can only be made

00:59:50.980 --> 00:59:53.159
by really fancy high -end bespoke factories,

00:59:53.400 --> 00:59:56.260
we're designing weapons that can be made in existing

00:59:56.260 --> 00:59:58.360
American industrial capacity. So like we make

00:59:58.360 --> 01:00:01.139
this line of cruise missiles, the Barracuda.

01:00:01.239 --> 01:00:03.840
We make three different Barracuda missiles. It

01:00:03.840 --> 01:00:07.059
has 90 % fewer parts than legacy cruise missiles.

01:00:07.179 --> 01:00:10.940
It can be made with 10 tools that all exist in

01:00:10.940 --> 01:00:13.480
every automotive plant. So you could make this

01:00:13.480 --> 01:00:17.449
missile at mass scale in any GM. facility in

01:00:17.449 --> 01:00:19.489
any Ford facility. And that's really important

01:00:19.489 --> 01:00:21.449
for us, because if you if you can only make your

01:00:21.449 --> 01:00:23.469
missiles in this specialized factory that took

01:00:23.469 --> 01:00:25.590
you 10 years to set up, well, what do you what

01:00:25.590 --> 01:00:27.150
in the world do you do when you need 100 times

01:00:27.150 --> 01:00:29.489
more of those missiles made every day? You're

01:00:29.489 --> 01:00:32.550
just kind of screwed. And so the United States

01:00:32.550 --> 01:00:35.449
has been doing better at this. I think like the

01:00:35.449 --> 01:00:37.230
Air Force is doing better. The Navy is doing

01:00:37.230 --> 01:00:40.730
better. The army has a whole transformation initiative

01:00:40.730 --> 01:00:43.369
where they want all of their new weapon systems

01:00:43.369 --> 01:00:46.670
to be highly manufacturable at scale using real

01:00:46.670 --> 01:00:49.289
industrial capacity. And working with private

01:00:49.289 --> 01:00:51.050
companies from the beginning to make sure that

01:00:51.050 --> 01:00:53.449
any – they want to make sure that any new system

01:00:53.449 --> 01:00:56.130
that they are building can be built by the American

01:00:56.130 --> 01:01:00.929
industrial economy. Not only these specialized

01:01:00.929 --> 01:01:05.630
aerospace technicians of which there are just

01:01:05.630 --> 01:01:08.980
not that many. That's very smart. And China does

01:01:08.980 --> 01:01:13.159
this, by the way. Have you seen the automated

01:01:13.159 --> 01:01:15.260
cruise missile factories that China has? I haven't.

01:01:15.300 --> 01:01:17.239
Oh, man. You've got to look this up at some point.

01:01:17.320 --> 01:01:18.739
There's some videos that they put out there,

01:01:18.800 --> 01:01:21.739
and they have this totally robotic line just

01:01:21.739 --> 01:01:22.659
churning out cruise missiles. I've seen their

01:01:22.659 --> 01:01:26.380
shipping ports. It's bananas. So China has 300

01:01:26.380 --> 01:01:29.619
times more naval shipbuilding capacity than the

01:01:29.619 --> 01:01:31.880
United States. The time that it takes us to build...

01:01:32.159 --> 01:01:35.500
one aircraft carrier, they could build 300. Now,

01:01:35.539 --> 01:01:37.039
they're not building a bunch of aircraft carriers.

01:01:37.099 --> 01:01:38.820
They're mostly focusing on other things that

01:01:38.820 --> 01:01:40.559
are more relevant to what they want to do, which

01:01:40.559 --> 01:01:42.880
is invade Taiwan. So amphibious landing craft

01:01:42.880 --> 01:01:46.699
primarily. But another thing China does is they

01:01:46.699 --> 01:01:49.239
actually require many of their commercial vessels

01:01:49.239 --> 01:01:51.199
that have nothing to do with the military to

01:01:51.199 --> 01:01:53.420
build to military standards for two reasons.

01:01:53.539 --> 01:01:55.679
One, because it means that all the shipyards

01:01:55.679 --> 01:01:58.079
are being built to handle military standards.

01:01:58.300 --> 01:02:06.429
Two, they plan on basically press all of these

01:02:06.429 --> 01:02:09.050
civilian vessels into service. So they're saying,

01:02:09.130 --> 01:02:11.710
hey, you have this roll -on, roll -off car ferry

01:02:11.710 --> 01:02:13.369
that's used for moving cars around, for delivering

01:02:13.369 --> 01:02:15.809
cars to the United States. You have to build

01:02:15.809 --> 01:02:18.269
it to deck plate pressures that allow us to roll

01:02:18.269 --> 01:02:20.190
a bunch of tanks onto it so that we can then

01:02:20.190 --> 01:02:23.230
use it to deliver tanks to Taiwan from the Chinese

01:02:23.230 --> 01:02:26.269
mainland. And they're just requiring people to

01:02:26.269 --> 01:02:28.690
do that. And so even their civilian shipping

01:02:28.690 --> 01:02:31.980
fleet is actually this kind of military ghost

01:02:31.980 --> 01:02:34.460
fleet just sitting in the open, pretending to

01:02:34.460 --> 01:02:36.519
be civilian. But the moment the shit hits the

01:02:36.519 --> 01:02:38.559
fan, it becomes part of the war machine. And

01:02:38.559 --> 01:02:41.119
so they've done a great job integrating in a

01:02:41.119 --> 01:02:43.019
way the United States has not. Do you think that

01:02:43.019 --> 01:02:46.739
an invasion of Taiwan is imminent? It's not imminent,

01:02:46.880 --> 01:02:50.079
but it's coming. So Andrew has an internal policy

01:02:50.079 --> 01:02:55.460
called China 27. The idea is that anything we're

01:02:55.460 --> 01:02:57.420
working on, anything that we're investing in

01:02:57.420 --> 01:03:00.679
needs to be built with the assumption. that sometime

01:03:00.679 --> 01:03:04.139
in 2027, China is going to move on Taiwan. And

01:03:04.139 --> 01:03:05.679
I might be wrong on this, right? It might be

01:03:05.679 --> 01:03:09.159
never. It might be a longer term thing. But in

01:03:09.159 --> 01:03:11.599
general, imagine how stupid I'll feel if I spend.

01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:13.800
Hundreds of millions of dollars building some

01:03:13.800 --> 01:03:16.619
new weapon system that I know is not going to

01:03:16.619 --> 01:03:19.699
come into service until the 2030s, which is what

01:03:19.699 --> 01:03:22.019
most experts say is outside of the window of

01:03:22.019 --> 01:03:24.119
when this invasion would happen. Wouldn't I feel

01:03:24.119 --> 01:03:27.059
pretty stupid if there's a gigantic fight and

01:03:27.059 --> 01:03:28.800
I've spent all my money on something that wasn't

01:03:28.800 --> 01:03:33.070
ready in time? I think that it is very likely

01:03:33.070 --> 01:03:36.670
that China moves on Taiwan for a variety of political

01:03:36.670 --> 01:03:40.849
reasons. So so like Xi Jinping has this window

01:03:40.849 --> 01:03:43.829
politically where he can show that he's reunified

01:03:43.829 --> 01:03:46.030
China. He's got a lot of demographic problems

01:03:46.030 --> 01:03:48.070
that are going to go out of control as he waits

01:03:48.070 --> 01:03:51.449
and people age. He's got a lot of economic problems

01:03:51.449 --> 01:03:53.539
where they're propping up their. their economy

01:03:53.539 --> 01:03:56.219
with a lot of kind of fake GDP, fake growth,

01:03:56.360 --> 01:03:59.179
fake demand, fake construction. And he's doing

01:03:59.179 --> 01:04:01.179
that, I think, to help build up his war machine.

01:04:01.460 --> 01:04:03.920
But it's not sustainable in the long run. So

01:04:03.920 --> 01:04:05.800
I think there's a window where they can do this.

01:04:06.360 --> 01:04:09.420
If you had to ask me, it's more likely that they

01:04:09.420 --> 01:04:11.579
don't do a full scale invasion to start. It's

01:04:11.579 --> 01:04:12.900
much more likely that they do something like

01:04:12.900 --> 01:04:14.920
a blockade. So they'll come up with some pretense.

01:04:14.980 --> 01:04:20.019
They'll say, oh, Taiwan is exporting. goods that

01:04:20.019 --> 01:04:23.480
say made in Taiwan. And our position is that

01:04:23.480 --> 01:04:25.860
Taiwan is part of China and therefore they need

01:04:25.860 --> 01:04:28.699
to pay Chinese taxes on those made in China goods.

01:04:28.880 --> 01:04:30.719
So we're going to blockade their port and not

01:04:30.719 --> 01:04:33.079
let them export anything until they resolve this.

01:04:33.480 --> 01:04:36.579
And I worry, I worry about them kind of boiling

01:04:36.579 --> 01:04:38.960
the frog. You know, they blockade one port and

01:04:38.960 --> 01:04:41.179
then two ports and then the airports and then

01:04:41.179 --> 01:04:43.820
the people of Taiwan are running out of money,

01:04:43.880 --> 01:04:45.840
running out of food. But you've boiled the frog

01:04:45.840 --> 01:04:48.539
enough where there's never a point where. Taiwan

01:04:48.539 --> 01:04:50.820
really wants to fire the first shot and actually

01:04:50.820 --> 01:04:53.519
start a war. And certainly, I think you and I

01:04:53.519 --> 01:04:56.239
would agree here, the U .S. probably should not

01:04:56.239 --> 01:05:00.639
start World War III over a blockade of a port,

01:05:00.760 --> 01:05:05.280
right? Boiling the frog is a great analogy. Boiling

01:05:05.280 --> 01:05:07.820
the frog, I think, is what China will do. And

01:05:07.820 --> 01:05:10.199
so what we need to do, and this is just my opinion,

01:05:10.239 --> 01:05:12.800
which is definitely biased. So to be clear, just

01:05:12.800 --> 01:05:14.340
so people know, nobody's going to dig in and

01:05:14.340 --> 01:05:17.070
say, but Palmer. Palmer's obviously only saying

01:05:17.070 --> 01:05:19.269
this because he's got money in the game. I will

01:05:19.269 --> 01:05:21.469
first say I have plenty of money. I sold my first

01:05:21.469 --> 01:05:23.110
company for billions of dollars. I don't need

01:05:23.110 --> 01:05:25.329
to work. I could retire. I'm not doing any of

01:05:25.329 --> 01:05:28.110
this for the money. Defense, you make a lot less

01:05:28.110 --> 01:05:30.349
money for each hour of work you put in than you

01:05:30.349 --> 01:05:34.949
can make in tech or media or elsewhere. But I

01:05:34.949 --> 01:05:37.530
do a lot of work with Taiwan. I just went to

01:05:37.530 --> 01:05:39.889
Taiwan a few weeks ago to personally deliver

01:05:39.889 --> 01:05:42.989
a bunch of missiles and weapon systems that are

01:05:42.989 --> 01:05:46.099
specifically to counter a Chinese invasion. My

01:05:46.099 --> 01:05:48.579
opinion is that the United States, we don't want

01:05:48.579 --> 01:05:50.380
to get into a shooting war ourselves, right?

01:05:50.480 --> 01:05:52.659
Like we want to avoid that. The United States

01:05:52.659 --> 01:05:55.340
needs to stop being the world police, stop sending

01:05:55.340 --> 01:05:57.559
our people overseas to die for other countries.

01:05:57.719 --> 01:06:00.059
And instead, we need to become the world's gun

01:06:00.059 --> 01:06:04.460
store. We need to say, hey. Look, and what do

01:06:04.460 --> 01:06:05.960
you need to do to be a good gun store, right?

01:06:06.019 --> 01:06:08.159
You got to keep stuff in stock. You got to keep

01:06:08.159 --> 01:06:10.019
things on the shelves. You need to be reasonably

01:06:10.019 --> 01:06:14.159
priced. You need to not arbitrarily cut off allies.

01:06:14.420 --> 01:06:15.840
And could you imagine if you went to a gun store

01:06:15.840 --> 01:06:18.860
and they told you, Joe, we're going to sell you

01:06:18.860 --> 01:06:22.139
this gun, but you can't use it over in that county.

01:06:22.280 --> 01:06:23.900
You can only use it in this one. And we're going

01:06:23.900 --> 01:06:25.679
to tell you exactly how you can use it. We're

01:06:25.679 --> 01:06:27.380
going to be micromanaging you. And we're going

01:06:27.380 --> 01:06:29.659
to be taking responsibility for how you use your

01:06:29.659 --> 01:06:32.550
gun. I mean, that would never work. You would

01:06:32.550 --> 01:06:33.710
never want to work with them. You'd say, I'm

01:06:33.710 --> 01:06:34.750
going to go to a different store. I'm going to

01:06:34.750 --> 01:06:36.530
go buy something. And that's what some nations

01:06:36.530 --> 01:06:38.929
are doing. Like they're going to Russia. They're

01:06:38.929 --> 01:06:41.050
going to China. They're going to India and buying

01:06:41.050 --> 01:06:43.789
systems because we're going in and telling them

01:06:43.789 --> 01:06:46.929
our weapons are expensive. They're never in stock.

01:06:47.190 --> 01:06:49.510
We never deliver them to you. And also we're

01:06:49.510 --> 01:06:50.909
going to tell you what to do with them if we

01:06:50.909 --> 01:06:53.440
ever do give you to them. Did you know that Taiwan

01:06:53.440 --> 01:06:57.420
is $20 billion behind on arms deliveries from

01:06:57.420 --> 01:07:00.579
the United States? They have $20 billion in orders

01:07:00.579 --> 01:07:04.619
that have not been delivered. These are not things

01:07:04.619 --> 01:07:08.179
they would maybe like to have. They need these

01:07:08.179 --> 01:07:12.099
yesterday. China could move in tomorrow. And

01:07:12.099 --> 01:07:14.039
the thing is, even a blockade, the best way to

01:07:14.039 --> 01:07:16.199
deter that is for Taiwan to have the things that

01:07:16.199 --> 01:07:18.340
make them a very prickly porcupine. Right. You

01:07:18.340 --> 01:07:20.260
want to have things like sea mining capabilities

01:07:20.260 --> 01:07:23.079
that make a blockade basically impossible to

01:07:23.079 --> 01:07:25.280
affect without destroying the entire fleet. You

01:07:25.280 --> 01:07:26.860
want things like missiles and counter missile

01:07:26.860 --> 01:07:28.800
systems that make it impossible to lock in the

01:07:28.800 --> 01:07:32.000
country. But we're 20 billion dollars behind.

01:07:32.500 --> 01:07:34.659
And I mean, you've seen what's happened with

01:07:34.659 --> 01:07:38.739
with Ukraine, where I mean, like there's an argument

01:07:38.739 --> 01:07:41.940
as to how we should arm them. Separate from that

01:07:41.940 --> 01:07:44.260
argument, you've probably seen, I mean, we can't

01:07:44.260 --> 01:07:46.699
even give them what they're asking for, even

01:07:46.699 --> 01:07:48.719
if we want to give it to them, because we don't

01:07:48.719 --> 01:07:50.539
have enough to even cover ourselves, right? Like

01:07:50.539 --> 01:07:52.719
we can't just give them all of our Patriot missiles.

01:07:52.840 --> 01:07:56.500
We can't give them even purely defensive tools

01:07:56.500 --> 01:07:59.920
to protect their capital because we don't make

01:07:59.920 --> 01:08:01.380
enough of them. We don't have enough of them.

01:08:01.400 --> 01:08:03.889
They're too expensive. That's crazy to me. That

01:08:03.889 --> 01:08:06.389
is crazy. It is crazy. So I think the best way

01:08:06.389 --> 01:08:07.889
for the United States to contribute to world

01:08:07.889 --> 01:08:09.929
stability, again, stop being the world police,

01:08:10.130 --> 01:08:12.710
start being the world gun store and get serious

01:08:12.710 --> 01:08:16.329
about it. Instead of saying, well, it's OK that

01:08:16.329 --> 01:08:18.210
we kind of are a crappy gun store because we're

01:08:18.210 --> 01:08:19.770
going to come and save your ass when shit hits

01:08:19.770 --> 01:08:21.569
the fan. We need to say, no, no, no, we're going

01:08:21.569 --> 01:08:23.630
to give everything you need to fight for your

01:08:23.630 --> 01:08:25.270
own freedom. Look, you're our friend. You're

01:08:25.270 --> 01:08:27.170
our ally. We'll give you everything you need.

01:08:27.250 --> 01:08:29.170
We'll give you support. We'll give you intelligence.

01:08:29.289 --> 01:08:31.729
But we're not going to fight your wars for you

01:08:31.729 --> 01:08:33.010
because I don't think the American people have.

01:08:33.069 --> 01:08:37.090
We don't have it in us to go do another two decades

01:08:37.090 --> 01:08:38.970
of adventures in the Middle East or adventures

01:08:38.970 --> 01:08:44.069
in Europe or adventures in Asia. We don't have

01:08:44.069 --> 01:08:46.489
it in us. Well, we're too informed now, too.

01:08:46.869 --> 01:08:49.029
There's that, too. The internet fucked all that

01:08:49.029 --> 01:08:51.270
game up. Oh, I mean, arguably Vietnam, right?

01:08:51.409 --> 01:08:54.470
Yes. Vietnam, I think, was the war that changed

01:08:54.470 --> 01:08:57.909
everything there because you had war on TV. You

01:08:57.909 --> 01:09:00.840
could see what was really happening. We now know

01:09:00.840 --> 01:09:02.520
with the benefit of hindsight that it was all

01:09:02.520 --> 01:09:04.180
a false flag that got us into it in the first

01:09:04.180 --> 01:09:06.500
place. That's right. I don't trust you anymore.

01:09:06.979 --> 01:09:10.520
Well, you remember what George Bush said. He

01:09:10.520 --> 01:09:14.199
said, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice,

01:09:14.399 --> 01:09:17.399
can't get fooled again. I remember that. Yeah,

01:09:17.420 --> 01:09:19.279
that was a good – that's one of my favorite George

01:09:19.279 --> 01:09:22.439
Bush -isms. I hear the – the theory I've heard

01:09:22.439 --> 01:09:24.939
is that he realized he was about to say shame

01:09:24.939 --> 01:09:27.239
on me on camera and then the press would have

01:09:27.239 --> 01:09:31.369
obviously said George Bush. admits he got fooled.

01:09:31.550 --> 01:09:35.130
Quote, shame on me. I think he just forgot it.

01:09:35.649 --> 01:09:39.029
Maybe there's that one. I think Bush was a pretty,

01:09:39.109 --> 01:09:40.390
I think he was a sharper guy. I think he was

01:09:40.390 --> 01:09:42.670
maybe not well -spoken, but I think he's actually

01:09:42.670 --> 01:09:44.550
pretty sharp. I think he just stumbled on his

01:09:44.550 --> 01:09:45.930
words. Well, what's stunning is, you ever see

01:09:45.930 --> 01:09:47.649
his speeches when he was running for governor

01:09:47.649 --> 01:09:50.529
of Texas? I have not actually gone back and looked

01:09:50.529 --> 01:09:52.569
at those, no. Smooth as butter. Really? Smooth

01:09:52.569 --> 01:09:55.210
as butter. Super articulate, you know, different

01:09:55.210 --> 01:09:57.750
guy. It's weird. I think it gets to a certain

01:09:57.750 --> 01:10:00.930
point with the pressure and the chaos and being

01:10:00.930 --> 01:10:03.569
the president and all the madness of the cameras

01:10:03.569 --> 01:10:06.789
in your face. The magnitude of it all wears on

01:10:06.789 --> 01:10:09.550
people, which is why they get so old. Well, I

01:10:09.550 --> 01:10:12.409
mean, even the pictures of Obama, you've seen

01:10:12.409 --> 01:10:14.390
them. I mean, he looks like a college student

01:10:14.390 --> 01:10:16.430
on his first inauguration. And then eight years

01:10:16.430 --> 01:10:19.229
later, he looks like he's 50 years older. It's

01:10:19.229 --> 01:10:21.069
nuts. It's just the pressure. The only one who's

01:10:21.069 --> 01:10:24.109
ever handled it is Trump. Trump looks younger.

01:10:24.550 --> 01:10:27.750
It really is astounding how that's worked out.

01:10:27.890 --> 01:10:30.649
He's a freak. He's a genuine freak. Like there's

01:10:30.649 --> 01:10:32.590
no one like that guy, which is the only reason

01:10:32.590 --> 01:10:34.689
why he survived all the shit they tried to put

01:10:34.689 --> 01:10:36.630
him through. It's the same reason why he can

01:10:36.630 --> 01:10:38.550
go through being president and it doesn't freak

01:10:38.550 --> 01:10:41.470
him out. Oh, yeah. I think he's – it's like the

01:10:41.470 --> 01:10:43.989
Bruce Banner Hulk thing. That's my secret. I'm

01:10:43.989 --> 01:10:45.670
always angry. Right, right, right. I think what

01:10:45.670 --> 01:10:48.350
– that's how it was for Trump. Trump was already

01:10:48.350 --> 01:10:51.050
living at the red line. Non -stop, you know,

01:10:51.050 --> 01:10:52.550
getting like, what, like four hours of sleep?

01:10:52.689 --> 01:10:54.529
Yeah. One of the funny things about the sleep

01:10:54.529 --> 01:10:59.670
thing is that I have it personally on good authority

01:10:59.670 --> 01:11:01.789
from a lot of people that it is true. And nobody

01:11:01.789 --> 01:11:04.090
really disputes it, except from time to time.

01:11:04.130 --> 01:11:07.729
People say the same thing about like Kim Jong

01:11:07.729 --> 01:11:09.970
-un. They're like, oh, the glorious leader doesn't

01:11:09.970 --> 01:11:12.529
even need to sleep. But with Trump's case, it

01:11:12.529 --> 01:11:15.010
seems to somehow actually be the case. He got

01:11:15.010 --> 01:11:19.090
that old man, no sleep power without getting.

01:11:19.659 --> 01:11:21.420
all of the downsides. Well, some people just

01:11:21.420 --> 01:11:23.619
don't need, like Jocko, you know Jocko Willing?

01:11:23.619 --> 01:11:25.739
Yeah. He sleeps four hours a night. Really? Yeah.

01:11:25.739 --> 01:11:27.579
So same thing. And he works out like an animal.

01:11:27.720 --> 01:11:30.060
That's so interesting. It's just genetic, I think.

01:11:30.180 --> 01:11:32.119
I think there's, I think actually Huberman has

01:11:32.119 --> 01:11:35.039
identified what is the actual genetic component

01:11:35.039 --> 01:11:38.430
of it, but there's some... particular type of

01:11:38.430 --> 01:11:40.489
people that don't need i'm not one of them man

01:11:40.489 --> 01:11:44.949
i'm not i need seven i like six if i could tolerate

01:11:44.949 --> 01:11:48.850
six eight is oh i'm so good today but if i can

01:11:48.850 --> 01:11:52.750
if i get less than six i'm a mess yeah i i need

01:11:52.750 --> 01:11:55.109
i need my sleep significantly dumber like if

01:11:55.109 --> 01:11:57.229
you've ever listened to a podcast and i'm stumbling

01:11:57.229 --> 01:12:00.890
guaranteed i'm working on four oh yeah yeah I'm

01:12:00.890 --> 01:12:02.529
working on less than I wanted to because I got

01:12:02.529 --> 01:12:05.329
to bed at around 2 and then I was up at 6 .30.

01:12:05.489 --> 01:12:07.670
But I can do that. Today? Today. It was just,

01:12:07.689 --> 01:12:10.090
there's a lot going on. You seem fine. I'm not

01:12:10.090 --> 01:12:11.789
worried at all. The good news is it's the first

01:12:11.789 --> 01:12:14.819
day. The first day you miss sleep, you're okay.

01:12:14.880 --> 01:12:16.859
You're pulling on your reserves. And then the

01:12:16.859 --> 01:12:18.579
second and the third day, then you start to get

01:12:18.579 --> 01:12:21.079
destroyed, at least for me. Me too. But then

01:12:21.079 --> 01:12:23.239
when I get behind, my wife gives me a hard time

01:12:23.239 --> 01:12:26.300
because I'll do what I call a mega sleep. And

01:12:26.300 --> 01:12:28.800
I will sleep. If I get way behind, I'll sleep

01:12:28.800 --> 01:12:31.960
for 10, 11 hours straight. Perfect. And then

01:12:31.960 --> 01:12:34.180
that usually recharges me. It's a renewable resource.

01:12:34.439 --> 01:12:36.000
That's the beautiful thing about sleep. I wonder

01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:37.899
what would happen if Trump slept for 11 hours.

01:12:38.319 --> 01:12:40.600
Would it be like the most incredible version

01:12:40.600 --> 01:12:42.359
of Trump we've ever seen? or would it throw him

01:12:42.359 --> 01:12:45.420
off? I mean, he said in his ways, you're not

01:12:45.420 --> 01:12:47.000
going to change anything about that guy now,

01:12:47.119 --> 01:12:49.100
especially at 80 years old. That's probably true.

01:12:49.300 --> 01:12:52.000
I don't know if you know this, but I was actually

01:12:52.000 --> 01:12:56.300
one of the true Trump OGs. I wrote a letter to

01:12:56.300 --> 01:12:59.140
Donald Trump when I was 15 telling him that he

01:12:59.140 --> 01:13:00.640
should run for president. This was when he was

01:13:00.640 --> 01:13:04.279
considering running against Obama. Really? How

01:13:04.279 --> 01:13:08.000
old are you now? I'm 33, just turned 33. Wow.

01:13:08.319 --> 01:13:10.279
So this was a long time ago. And actually, I

01:13:10.279 --> 01:13:13.159
not only – luckily I sent a letter and I posted

01:13:13.159 --> 01:13:14.800
about it on Facebook, which I'm really happy

01:13:14.800 --> 01:13:17.819
about. No, this wasn't – no, it wasn't 2015.

01:13:17.939 --> 01:13:20.279
No, this was when I was 15. I'm sorry. I meant

01:13:20.279 --> 01:13:23.840
to say when I was 15. So, I mean, this is way

01:13:23.840 --> 01:13:28.199
back. This is like back in like 2009, 2010. So

01:13:28.199 --> 01:13:30.100
way before anyone else. And the best part is

01:13:30.100 --> 01:13:32.319
I posted about it on Facebook and I said, I think

01:13:32.319 --> 01:13:35.329
Donald Trump would be a better – choice for president

01:13:35.329 --> 01:13:37.270
than any of these other guys. I want to see a

01:13:37.270 --> 01:13:39.369
businessman who's signed both sides of a check

01:13:39.369 --> 01:13:42.270
before. And you look at the people who are running

01:13:42.270 --> 01:13:46.069
kind of the modern parties, arguably the uniparty,

01:13:46.069 --> 01:13:51.590
and he's clearly not part of that. And it's so

01:13:51.590 --> 01:13:53.630
wild when people later, they're like, oh, Palmer.

01:13:54.250 --> 01:13:56.609
Palmer was an early Trump supporter. He supported

01:13:56.609 --> 01:13:59.569
him in 2016 probably because he loved Trump's

01:13:59.569 --> 01:14:02.270
extremist rhetoric. I'm like, oh, no, you don't

01:14:02.270 --> 01:14:04.649
even know. I loved his extremist rhetoric going

01:14:04.649 --> 01:14:08.149
back to 2009. But it wasn't even that extremist

01:14:08.149 --> 01:14:11.430
then. It wasn't then. That was the key. You've

01:14:11.430 --> 01:14:13.289
probably seen these interviews from the 80s where

01:14:13.289 --> 01:14:15.829
he says, we're getting riffed off on trade. It's

01:14:15.829 --> 01:14:17.350
ridiculous. When he was talking to Oprah back

01:14:17.350 --> 01:14:18.970
when everybody loved him. That's right. Exactly.

01:14:19.050 --> 01:14:22.050
He's saying the exact same words. And today they

01:14:22.050 --> 01:14:24.529
say, oh, it's it. You remember when he was running

01:14:24.529 --> 01:14:27.329
and he was saying we were going to have over

01:14:27.329 --> 01:14:31.329
3 % GDP growth. And Obama said, there's no magic

01:14:31.329 --> 01:14:34.510
wand. There's no magic wand. You can wave. That

01:14:34.510 --> 01:14:38.369
gets you to 3%. And then Trump said in one of

01:14:38.369 --> 01:14:39.930
his speeches, he said, they told me not to say

01:14:39.930 --> 01:14:42.770
this. And they told me I can't. He said, it's

01:14:42.770 --> 01:14:44.569
going to be 3%. And they told me not to say this,

01:14:44.630 --> 01:14:47.329
but it's actually going to be a more, a lot more.

01:14:48.010 --> 01:14:50.210
And, of course, it ended up being far in excess

01:14:50.210 --> 01:14:51.470
of three. I think it was like four and a half

01:14:51.470 --> 01:14:55.029
percent GDP increase that year. What year was

01:14:55.029 --> 01:14:57.189
this? I think this was his first year in office,

01:14:57.229 --> 01:15:01.890
so 2017. Yeah, that was 2017, right? Yeah, when

01:15:01.890 --> 01:15:06.810
he was inaugurated. And it's one of those things

01:15:06.810 --> 01:15:09.510
where the easiest argument for Trump in those

01:15:09.510 --> 01:15:11.390
days was just, look, you don't have to agree

01:15:11.390 --> 01:15:14.020
with the guy on everything. But the real question

01:15:14.020 --> 01:15:17.340
is, do you believe that either party outside

01:15:17.340 --> 01:15:19.739
of Trump is going to like, are they going to

01:15:19.739 --> 01:15:21.760
do well? Like you have you have the Democrats

01:15:21.760 --> 01:15:24.439
saying there's no magic wand to get growth and

01:15:24.439 --> 01:15:26.340
you have everyone else attacking Trump and saying,

01:15:26.420 --> 01:15:28.159
oh, we're just going to do everything the same

01:15:28.159 --> 01:15:30.399
way the Republicans have always done it. But

01:15:30.399 --> 01:15:32.359
the strongest argument for Trump is that anybody

01:15:32.359 --> 01:15:34.079
would have been better than what the establishment

01:15:34.079 --> 01:15:36.020
was pushing. I think that's the best argument.

01:15:36.180 --> 01:15:40.020
Yeah. For me, one of the big ones was. I mean,

01:15:40.060 --> 01:15:42.180
I got in a lot of shit for this. I gave $9 ,000

01:15:42.180 --> 01:15:46.000
to a pro -Trump group that ran a single anti

01:15:46.000 --> 01:15:47.920
-Clinton billboard. It was a picture of her face

01:15:47.920 --> 01:15:50.779
that said, too big to jail. And this was right

01:15:50.779 --> 01:15:53.000
after it had come out that she had been mishandling

01:15:53.000 --> 01:15:54.859
classified information, running an email server

01:15:54.859 --> 01:15:57.119
out of her own home. You probably remember the

01:15:57.119 --> 01:16:00.859
famous phrase where they asked her. Were you

01:16:00.859 --> 01:16:04.060
aware that your staff was directed to wipe that

01:16:04.060 --> 01:16:07.100
server? And she said, like with a cloth. Do you

01:16:07.100 --> 01:16:09.659
remember like with a cloth? I mean, it was just

01:16:09.659 --> 01:16:12.920
it was it was so it was so absurd. But for me,

01:16:12.939 --> 01:16:17.260
one of the red lines was when Hillary and it's

01:16:17.260 --> 01:16:20.380
not really Hillary. It's it's kind of the political

01:16:20.380 --> 01:16:24.239
machine of which she is just the face said that

01:16:24.239 --> 01:16:28.720
she would enforce a strict no fly zone in Syria.

01:16:29.610 --> 01:16:31.369
And it's easy to say, oh, yeah, I would enforce

01:16:31.369 --> 01:16:33.270
a no -fly zone. And that sounds, oh, yeah, yeah,

01:16:33.310 --> 01:16:36.770
keep these bombers out of the air, keep these

01:16:36.770 --> 01:16:37.770
fighters out of the air. But what does that really

01:16:37.770 --> 01:16:39.869
mean? That means that you're saying you're going

01:16:39.869 --> 01:16:42.850
to shoot down Russian aircraft if they cross

01:16:42.850 --> 01:16:44.590
into airspace that doesn't even belong in the

01:16:44.590 --> 01:16:47.000
United States. I mean, that's practically an

01:16:47.000 --> 01:16:48.739
announcement that you're starting a world war

01:16:48.739 --> 01:16:51.520
to say I am going to shoot. That is what enforcement

01:16:51.520 --> 01:16:54.000
of no fly zone is. And it was crazy to me. Everyone

01:16:54.000 --> 01:16:56.319
says, oh, you know, it's Hillary. You know, Trump

01:16:56.319 --> 01:16:58.699
is an isolationist and Hillary is the only one

01:16:58.699 --> 01:17:00.619
who has a who understands what we need to do

01:17:00.619 --> 01:17:04.239
in Syria. Are you kidding me? Like, I'm not without

01:17:04.239 --> 01:17:07.380
even taking a position on what we are doing in

01:17:07.380 --> 01:17:09.560
Syria or we're doing in Syria. I know better

01:17:09.560 --> 01:17:12.390
than to. commit that we are going to shoot down

01:17:12.390 --> 01:17:15.130
Russian aircraft because they decide to fly in

01:17:15.130 --> 01:17:19.109
Syrian airspace. We should not care about almost

01:17:19.109 --> 01:17:22.229
anything that much. And by the way, if we didn't

01:17:22.229 --> 01:17:24.470
do it, that's almost as bad because now we've

01:17:24.470 --> 01:17:26.210
drawn a red line in the sand and we've let them

01:17:26.210 --> 01:17:27.649
cross it and we've shown that we're not actually

01:17:27.649 --> 01:17:32.090
serious. You shouldn't say that. You shouldn't

01:17:32.090 --> 01:17:35.109
act on it. And you shouldn't not act on it. It's

01:17:35.109 --> 01:17:38.750
a lose, lose, lose every step of the way. And

01:17:38.750 --> 01:17:41.680
it's just... Politics is normal. That's right.

01:17:41.800 --> 01:17:43.659
And so, I mean, I would explain this to friends

01:17:43.659 --> 01:17:46.479
of mine and say, guys, I mean, they say, oh,

01:17:46.500 --> 01:17:49.239
my God, Trump's a warmonger. But Trump, you know,

01:17:49.239 --> 01:17:51.260
because I care about this national security stuff

01:17:51.260 --> 01:17:53.420
pretty deeply then. This was right when I was

01:17:53.420 --> 01:17:55.680
starting Andral eight years ago. And so I was

01:17:55.680 --> 01:17:57.479
like dedicating my career to these national security

01:17:57.479 --> 01:17:59.640
problems. Guys, how can Trump be the warmonger

01:17:59.640 --> 01:18:01.479
when he's the guy saying we need to stop fighting

01:18:01.479 --> 01:18:03.140
these wars, get out of these other countries,

01:18:03.279 --> 01:18:06.880
get our boots back in the U .S. and not get in

01:18:06.880 --> 01:18:10.229
a fight with. Russia, China or any other country

01:18:10.229 --> 01:18:13.189
that we don't have to get into. And how can you

01:18:13.189 --> 01:18:15.130
say Trump's a warmonger and then support someone

01:18:15.130 --> 01:18:17.130
who says we're going to enforce a no fly zone

01:18:17.130 --> 01:18:19.989
in Syria? And I think a lot of people, it was

01:18:19.989 --> 01:18:21.970
just really emotional. It was it was you can't

01:18:21.970 --> 01:18:23.710
reason people out of an opinion they didn't reason

01:18:23.710 --> 01:18:25.760
themselves into. Well, one of the things. rocks

01:18:25.760 --> 01:18:29.119
people's world is you show them past videos of

01:18:29.119 --> 01:18:32.380
Hillary from 2008. You remember that video where

01:18:32.380 --> 01:18:34.739
she was more MAGA than MAGA? She's talking about

01:18:34.739 --> 01:18:38.279
the border, enforcing the border. I think one

01:18:38.279 --> 01:18:40.979
of the phrases was, we have to send them back.

01:18:41.220 --> 01:18:43.939
Yes. Can you imagine that day? We have to send

01:18:43.939 --> 01:18:46.180
them back. I mean, imagine it was her. I mean,

01:18:46.199 --> 01:18:48.819
this was her position. And she sounds like a

01:18:48.819 --> 01:18:51.399
hard -line Republican now. Well, I mean, another

01:18:51.399 --> 01:18:55.369
one to bring up is... is also like gay marriage.

01:18:55.510 --> 01:18:57.689
I mean, I'll tell you my personal view is that

01:18:57.689 --> 01:18:59.670
the state shouldn't be involved in marriage at

01:18:59.670 --> 01:19:01.710
all. It's actually a very recent invention. I

01:19:01.710 --> 01:19:03.069
don't know if you've ever dug into this. No.

01:19:03.270 --> 01:19:06.649
So state marriage licensure is a very recent

01:19:06.649 --> 01:19:09.430
development. There are people alive today who

01:19:09.430 --> 01:19:11.630
got married when you were not required of a marriage

01:19:11.630 --> 01:19:15.569
license. It was primarily a kind of a race driven

01:19:15.569 --> 01:19:19.260
thing. States didn't want black. to marry white

01:19:19.260 --> 01:19:22.479
women. And they got terrified of that in the

01:19:22.479 --> 01:19:24.520
civil rights era. And so they all passed these

01:19:24.520 --> 01:19:26.779
rules about marriage licensure, many of them

01:19:26.779 --> 01:19:30.060
prohibiting interracial marriage. So basically

01:19:30.060 --> 01:19:34.400
marriage licenses were a way to enforce. against

01:19:34.400 --> 01:19:35.720
interracial marriage. Because if marriage was

01:19:35.720 --> 01:19:37.119
a purely religious thing where you could just

01:19:37.119 --> 01:19:39.899
go to a pastor, get married, sign it in a Bible,

01:19:40.100 --> 01:19:42.760
the state had no power over it. And so they wanted

01:19:42.760 --> 01:19:45.260
to enforce their will on people. So marriage

01:19:45.260 --> 01:19:46.979
licensure is very recent. My personal opinion

01:19:46.979 --> 01:19:49.600
is the state has no legitimate authority, constitutional

01:19:49.600 --> 01:19:53.819
or otherwise, to regulate marriage at all. Gay

01:19:53.819 --> 01:19:56.779
marriage is not even a question. This is a religious...

01:19:57.350 --> 01:20:00.550
cultural, social ceremony witnessed before your

01:20:00.550 --> 01:20:03.170
friends and your family. It is not something

01:20:03.170 --> 01:20:04.829
the state should be... They shouldn't have the

01:20:04.829 --> 01:20:06.989
right to give you a marriage license, nor to

01:20:06.989 --> 01:20:12.630
deny you one. When did I give the state the ability

01:20:12.630 --> 01:20:16.710
to say it's illegal for me to get married without

01:20:16.710 --> 01:20:18.350
their permission? That's crazy to me. Anyway...

01:20:20.340 --> 01:20:22.300
So Hillary, you might remember, I mean, even

01:20:22.300 --> 01:20:25.199
in 2008, she was against gay marriage and she

01:20:25.199 --> 01:20:27.119
was out there. She says, I believe that marriage

01:20:27.119 --> 01:20:29.100
is between a man and a woman. So here's someone

01:20:29.100 --> 01:20:32.060
who I was on the state shouldn't be involved

01:20:32.060 --> 01:20:35.180
in it at all side. Hillary's on the no, we should

01:20:35.180 --> 01:20:37.739
use state power to enforce what marriage is between

01:20:37.739 --> 01:20:39.760
a man and a woman. And then you have Donald Trump,

01:20:39.880 --> 01:20:41.779
who he's asked about. He said, do you remember

01:20:41.779 --> 01:20:43.619
his quote on this? So, I mean, he had been to

01:20:43.619 --> 01:20:46.319
gay weddings. He had gay friends and he was asked

01:20:46.319 --> 01:20:49.460
about it. And he said, well, look. Marriage,

01:20:49.539 --> 01:20:52.140
okay, it's like a restaurant. You've got steak,

01:20:52.359 --> 01:20:54.659
you've got burgers, and different people like

01:20:54.659 --> 01:20:57.359
different things, and that's okay. I mean, it

01:20:57.359 --> 01:21:00.720
was actually the most progressive view you could

01:21:00.720 --> 01:21:03.739
ever have. Obama, by the way, same thing. Obama

01:21:03.739 --> 01:21:05.760
was against gay marriage. Hillary was against

01:21:05.760 --> 01:21:07.479
gay marriage. And then you fast forward just

01:21:07.479 --> 01:21:11.359
three short years, and you have people like Brendan

01:21:11.359 --> 01:21:14.930
Eich, the CEO of Mozilla, getting... Fired by

01:21:14.930 --> 01:21:17.609
his board of directors because he supported Prop

01:21:17.609 --> 01:21:19.989
8, which said that marriage is between a man

01:21:19.989 --> 01:21:21.289
and a woman in California, which, by the way,

01:21:21.310 --> 01:21:23.970
even then passed in California. So the majority

01:21:23.970 --> 01:21:26.550
of Californians agreed with him. But I mean,

01:21:26.550 --> 01:21:29.510
you're right. Like Hillary was Hillary was the

01:21:29.510 --> 01:21:31.789
thing, the views she had when she was running

01:21:31.789 --> 01:21:33.550
for president. You're right. Today, she would

01:21:33.550 --> 01:21:36.149
be a hard line. Hard line. Certainly. She'd be

01:21:36.149 --> 01:21:38.329
certainly on the cultural side alone. She'd be

01:21:38.329 --> 01:21:40.949
on the right of Marjorie Taylor Greene. No, that's

01:21:40.949 --> 01:21:42.529
a great point. Marjorie Taylor Greene. Right.

01:21:42.569 --> 01:21:47.789
She's very pro. LGBT. She certainly is not for

01:21:47.789 --> 01:21:50.189
intervention in the Middle East. Yodi, you're

01:21:50.189 --> 01:21:53.189
right. I never thought about it that way. Marjorie

01:21:53.189 --> 01:21:56.850
Taylor Greene would be far, far left of a Hillary

01:21:56.850 --> 01:22:01.829
Clinton running again today. I want to tell a

01:22:01.829 --> 01:22:06.770
story that I've never told publicly. Enough time

01:22:06.770 --> 01:22:08.729
has passed. We're bringing it up since we're

01:22:08.729 --> 01:22:13.380
talking about Hillary. When I was in Silicon

01:22:13.380 --> 01:22:16.779
Valley – this is after Facebook bought Oculus.

01:22:17.060 --> 01:22:20.859
And so I'm up there and I was actually pro -immigration

01:22:20.859 --> 01:22:24.140
more – even more then than I am now. So I was

01:22:24.140 --> 01:22:26.340
thinking about supporting this group called Forward

01:22:26.340 --> 01:22:28.619
.US, which was trying to lead to immigration

01:22:28.619 --> 01:22:31.119
reform in the United States. And I've since evolved

01:22:31.119 --> 01:22:33.460
on this issue. I think that immigration can help

01:22:33.460 --> 01:22:35.420
depress US wages in ways I didn't understand

01:22:35.420 --> 01:22:38.579
then. I hadn't observed a lot of the H -1B. visa

01:22:38.579 --> 01:22:40.840
abuse that I have now observed having spent years

01:22:40.840 --> 01:22:43.699
in the Valley. So cut me a little slack if anyone

01:22:43.699 --> 01:22:45.380
thinks I shouldn't have worked with Forward .us.

01:22:45.500 --> 01:22:48.260
But I ended up with this invitation to go to

01:22:48.260 --> 01:22:50.460
an event, a Hillary Clinton event in Silicon

01:22:50.460 --> 01:22:52.960
Valley. It was very, very hush -hush. No media.

01:22:53.279 --> 01:22:55.960
Nobody was saying anything. And this was before

01:22:55.960 --> 01:22:57.359
she had officially announced she was running.

01:22:57.500 --> 01:23:00.260
So you know when a politician is going to run

01:23:00.260 --> 01:23:02.720
and everybody knows, but technically they haven't

01:23:02.720 --> 01:23:05.619
announced it. So Hillary was going to come out

01:23:05.619 --> 01:23:10.189
and she was there with her John Podesta was her

01:23:10.189 --> 01:23:13.069
CTO at the time, or was it chief of staff? Something

01:23:13.069 --> 01:23:15.329
like that. One of those. Yeah. So it was going

01:23:15.329 --> 01:23:17.810
to be her and Podesta. At the last second, Hillary

01:23:17.810 --> 01:23:20.210
ends up bailing. But I ended up going anyway,

01:23:20.310 --> 01:23:22.170
and I had a couple of prepared questions for

01:23:22.170 --> 01:23:25.430
Hillary. And so it was me and about 15 other

01:23:25.430 --> 01:23:28.329
billionaires in Silicon Valley who went to this

01:23:28.329 --> 01:23:31.310
kind of real, really, really intimate gathering.

01:23:31.409 --> 01:23:34.010
And they wanted to sell us on why we should support

01:23:34.010 --> 01:23:37.510
Hillary in this upcoming run when she ran. And

01:23:37.510 --> 01:23:39.109
first of all, I thought it was kind of shitty

01:23:39.109 --> 01:23:41.050
that she just didn't show up at the last second

01:23:41.050 --> 01:23:43.710
and didn't say basically until we were already

01:23:43.710 --> 01:23:45.890
on the way. Like, whatever. She had some legitimate

01:23:45.890 --> 01:23:49.649
health issues, right? And still does. She might

01:23:49.649 --> 01:23:51.550
have in general, but I don't think that was the

01:23:51.550 --> 01:23:54.630
problem at this point. And so there were two

01:23:54.630 --> 01:23:57.529
issues that I brought up to Podesta. I said,

01:23:57.550 --> 01:23:59.909
hey, I wanted to ask these of Hillary. By the

01:23:59.909 --> 01:24:02.689
way, I don't. Note that in this story, I hadn't

01:24:02.689 --> 01:24:04.409
decided who I was going to support. So a lot

01:24:04.409 --> 01:24:06.229
of people think I'm like this hard political

01:24:06.229 --> 01:24:09.449
guy. I was a VR guy. I was a computer kid. Politics

01:24:09.449 --> 01:24:11.510
was something I cared about, but I was reasonable.

01:24:13.050 --> 01:24:17.229
I had not yet been, what do they call it? Radicalized.

01:24:17.350 --> 01:24:19.729
I had not yet been radicalized. It was after

01:24:19.729 --> 01:24:21.890
they fired me for giving $9 ,000 to Trump that

01:24:21.890 --> 01:24:25.010
I got radicalized. Pre -radicalized Palmer. OK.

01:24:25.130 --> 01:24:26.869
So I go to this meeting and I had two questions

01:24:26.869 --> 01:24:30.250
for Hillary. I said, one, in the past, Hillary,

01:24:30.350 --> 01:24:34.369
you've supported a 55 mile per hour federal speed

01:24:34.369 --> 01:24:36.630
limit. You were one of the original proponents.

01:24:36.829 --> 01:24:38.890
You were one of the people who supported it in

01:24:38.890 --> 01:24:41.310
the Senate. You wrote an open letter with a lot

01:24:41.310 --> 01:24:43.170
of other wives of politicians saying that the

01:24:43.170 --> 01:24:46.130
blood would run red with the streets would run

01:24:46.130 --> 01:24:48.649
red with the blood of children if we got rid

01:24:48.649 --> 01:24:51.289
of this of this of the speed limit. And then

01:24:51.289 --> 01:24:54.369
in 2008, when you last ran for president, you

01:24:54.369 --> 01:24:57.010
said on I think it was The View, actually, which

01:24:57.010 --> 01:24:58.449
is it's so funny because The View has turned

01:24:58.449 --> 01:25:01.449
into like almost a parody of itself. But you

01:25:01.449 --> 01:25:04.069
said on The View that when you were asked about

01:25:04.069 --> 01:25:07.420
the speed limit. You said that whenever and however

01:25:07.420 --> 01:25:09.979
we can make it happen, we should have a 55 mile

01:25:09.979 --> 01:25:11.640
per hour speed limit. Now, given that you've

01:25:11.640 --> 01:25:14.359
never driven a car in the last 20 years, have

01:25:14.359 --> 01:25:17.239
you reconsidered this rule or would you be supporting

01:25:17.239 --> 01:25:19.859
this campaign? And Podesta said, oh, we don't

01:25:19.859 --> 01:25:21.539
really have a position on that issue. I said,

01:25:21.539 --> 01:25:23.960
but like, could you make up one right now? Like,

01:25:23.960 --> 01:25:26.579
like most Americans don't want a 55 mile per

01:25:26.579 --> 01:25:28.500
hour speed limit. I think that was really dumb

01:25:28.500 --> 01:25:30.680
of Hillary to say she supported one last time.

01:25:30.760 --> 01:25:34.090
I think it might be why she lost. Can you? would

01:25:34.090 --> 01:25:36.229
you agree that probably it's not a winning issue?

01:25:36.350 --> 01:25:38.210
And he said, oh, we can't, we can't take a position

01:25:38.210 --> 01:25:40.130
on that at this time, which was crazy to me.

01:25:40.149 --> 01:25:41.510
Shouldn't that be just so easy to be like, yeah,

01:25:41.609 --> 01:25:44.670
like this is clearly like a thing. It's a, it's

01:25:44.670 --> 01:25:47.470
a fight she lost, you know, half a century ago

01:25:47.470 --> 01:25:49.869
and she still worked up about it. Just give up.

01:25:49.970 --> 01:25:52.489
People don't want to drive 55. Um, you've, you

01:25:52.489 --> 01:25:54.010
remember when Tommy Hager wrote a song about

01:25:54.010 --> 01:25:56.029
it? Well, you know, you know, Tom Cruise had

01:25:56.029 --> 01:25:58.250
a can't drive 55 decal on them, his motorcycle

01:25:58.250 --> 01:26:00.489
and top gun. And I mean like, it's like, I mean,

01:26:00.489 --> 01:26:03.810
it's, it, the cultural battle has been, My second

01:26:03.810 --> 01:26:06.890
question was, hey, we're a bunch of techno bros

01:26:06.890 --> 01:26:09.609
up here in the Valley. We all believe in battery

01:26:09.609 --> 01:26:12.170
electric hybrid vehicles and electric vehicles

01:26:12.170 --> 01:26:15.189
in general. But Hillary's been a huge supporter.

01:26:16.510 --> 01:26:18.550
Oh, no, it was the other way. I'm sorry. This

01:26:18.550 --> 01:26:19.949
has been so long. I haven't thought about this.

01:26:20.149 --> 01:26:23.210
No, I said Hillary actually was against corn

01:26:23.210 --> 01:26:25.890
subsidies at one point. She called them at one

01:26:25.890 --> 01:26:27.829
point, you know, like the ethanol blending mandates.

01:26:27.890 --> 01:26:30.789
They were making corn at a loss, paid for with

01:26:30.789 --> 01:26:32.369
taxpayer dollars, and then mandating that it

01:26:32.369 --> 01:26:34.569
go into gasoline, which hurts car performance.

01:26:34.689 --> 01:26:38.569
It's got lots of fuel storage problems, and it's

01:26:38.569 --> 01:26:40.789
just a waste of money. And there's less energy

01:26:40.789 --> 01:26:42.829
in it, too. So you get actually worse mileage.

01:26:43.609 --> 01:26:47.840
Anyway. I said, hey, in the past, Hillary has

01:26:47.840 --> 01:26:49.260
come out and she wrote this open letter that

01:26:49.260 --> 01:26:51.039
called ethanol blending mandates the, quote,

01:26:51.119 --> 01:26:54.279
most astonishingly anti -consumer mandate in

01:26:54.279 --> 01:26:57.460
the history of the American government. Is she?

01:26:58.170 --> 01:26:59.989
Does she still believe that? Does she want money

01:26:59.989 --> 01:27:03.789
to go away from biofuels and more towards actual

01:27:03.789 --> 01:27:06.729
cutting edge technology? Or is she going to support

01:27:06.729 --> 01:27:09.590
corn subsidies to win votes in Iowa? And Fidesz

01:27:09.590 --> 01:27:11.310
says, oh, well, we don't have a position on that

01:27:11.310 --> 01:27:13.409
at this time. I said, I just got to press you

01:27:13.409 --> 01:27:15.689
there. You don't have a position or you don't

01:27:15.689 --> 01:27:19.210
want to tell us the answer because. None of us

01:27:19.210 --> 01:27:21.510
here think that the future is biofuels. It's

01:27:21.510 --> 01:27:24.369
a failed experiment. It's a failed mandate. Hillary

01:27:24.369 --> 01:27:26.810
used to agree. Is she going to flip on us? He

01:27:26.810 --> 01:27:30.069
said, I'm honestly, genuinely telling you, we

01:27:30.069 --> 01:27:32.130
do not have a position on this at this time.

01:27:32.189 --> 01:27:36.189
Not that bad, right? That's not bad. And so three

01:27:36.189 --> 01:27:40.239
days later. Hillary announces officially she's

01:27:40.239 --> 01:27:42.279
running. Her first ads start running. And what

01:27:42.279 --> 01:27:44.380
do you think the first series of ads are? It's

01:27:44.380 --> 01:27:46.779
Hillary in a cornfield talking about how she's

01:27:46.779 --> 01:27:49.060
going to boost corn subsidies and she's going

01:27:49.060 --> 01:27:51.560
to lead a clean energy revolution and she's going

01:27:51.560 --> 01:27:55.579
to give them so much corn money. And like setting

01:27:55.579 --> 01:27:57.260
aside the fact that I think biofuel subsidies

01:27:57.260 --> 01:28:00.439
are dumb, she lost so much trust of people in

01:28:00.439 --> 01:28:03.579
that room because her answer wasn't, here's why

01:28:03.579 --> 01:28:07.279
I support them and deal with it. And it wasn't,

01:28:07.640 --> 01:28:09.800
I don't support it technologically, but I support

01:28:09.800 --> 01:28:11.260
it politically, which I think people could have

01:28:11.260 --> 01:28:13.699
respected. It was, oh, we don't have a position.

01:28:13.880 --> 01:28:16.319
But she did. They had already paid for the ads.

01:28:16.500 --> 01:28:17.960
They'd already made the ads. They were probably

01:28:17.960 --> 01:28:20.460
sitting on a tape in the TV studio ready to run

01:28:20.460 --> 01:28:23.199
as we're meeting with her chief of staff. And

01:28:23.199 --> 01:28:26.060
honestly, I know I said that like the Syria thing

01:28:26.060 --> 01:28:27.960
was a red line. That was actually the moment

01:28:27.960 --> 01:28:29.720
where I decided that I couldn't vote for Hillary.

01:28:29.899 --> 01:28:31.680
It wasn't about any particular issue. I was like.

01:28:32.380 --> 01:28:34.680
It's just how can you vote for someone who's

01:28:34.680 --> 01:28:37.960
willing to just lie that way to manipulate –

01:28:37.960 --> 01:28:39.399
and she was trying to manipulate me and a bunch

01:28:39.399 --> 01:28:40.819
of other rich guys. And there were a bunch of

01:28:40.819 --> 01:28:43.060
other guys in that room who said the same thing.

01:28:43.159 --> 01:28:45.319
We all were in a group chat. We're like, we're

01:28:45.319 --> 01:28:48.260
not going to – by the way, my questions weren't

01:28:48.260 --> 01:28:49.500
the only ones like this. There were like another

01:28:49.500 --> 01:28:52.340
– Dozen questions. Did Podesta answer any of

01:28:52.340 --> 01:28:55.020
them with like meaningful? He did. There were

01:28:55.020 --> 01:28:56.340
some that they answered meaningful. Like I'd

01:28:56.340 --> 01:28:58.220
say actually on the immigration side, there were

01:28:58.220 --> 01:29:00.020
some real ones. There were questions about policy

01:29:00.020 --> 01:29:03.060
for dreamers in particular. And like he had,

01:29:03.079 --> 01:29:05.479
he had his talking points. He didn't expect anyone

01:29:05.479 --> 01:29:07.560
to come out of, you know, to come off the top

01:29:07.560 --> 01:29:11.000
rope with 55 mile per hour speed limits. But

01:29:11.000 --> 01:29:12.500
there were a few other things. I'm trying to

01:29:12.500 --> 01:29:13.680
remember. What were the other ones that I think

01:29:13.680 --> 01:29:15.739
he misled people on? There was something in there

01:29:15.739 --> 01:29:18.180
around, there was something around there around

01:29:18.180 --> 01:29:21.159
content. like for social media platforms. In

01:29:21.159 --> 01:29:22.699
Silicon Valley, people care about this stuff.

01:29:22.819 --> 01:29:25.659
It was like, hey, do you agree that the government

01:29:25.659 --> 01:29:29.180
shouldn't be moderating content, that they shouldn't

01:29:29.180 --> 01:29:30.399
be censoring it? Because this was kind of the

01:29:30.399 --> 01:29:32.800
very early days of the government interfering

01:29:32.800 --> 01:29:35.859
with this stuff. When did the government first

01:29:35.859 --> 01:29:37.500
start interfering with social media content?

01:29:37.939 --> 01:29:41.619
Do you know what the initial issues were? So

01:29:41.619 --> 01:29:43.899
I don't know the initial issues, but let's look

01:29:43.899 --> 01:29:46.640
at this from first principles. Ignoring the social

01:29:46.640 --> 01:29:49.449
media part. When did the government start intervening

01:29:49.449 --> 01:29:52.510
in media? From the beginning. From the beginning.

01:29:53.250 --> 01:29:55.930
You know, one of the reasons... Everyone loves

01:29:55.930 --> 01:29:58.470
Alexander Hamilton. He's a really popular founding

01:29:58.470 --> 01:30:00.689
father. I have to admit, he's actually my least

01:30:00.689 --> 01:30:03.789
favorite founding father, partly because he supported

01:30:03.789 --> 01:30:06.489
central banking. I'm just not really a gigantic

01:30:06.489 --> 01:30:09.810
fan of it and how it's turned out. But interesting...

01:30:09.810 --> 01:30:11.229
By the way, he was also very anti -immigrant,

01:30:11.289 --> 01:30:14.359
which is so funny because... And look up the

01:30:14.359 --> 01:30:17.439
interview with the directors of Hamilton the

01:30:17.439 --> 01:30:19.340
musical when they were asked, why did you make

01:30:19.340 --> 01:30:22.100
Hamilton the musical super pro -immigrant when

01:30:22.100 --> 01:30:25.479
in reality he was very, I mean, very anti -immigrant.

01:30:25.579 --> 01:30:27.920
I mean, he literally said immigrants are a poison

01:30:27.920 --> 01:30:30.819
to our nation. I mean, he was really against

01:30:30.819 --> 01:30:32.760
it, which is funny because he was himself an

01:30:32.760 --> 01:30:34.800
immigrant. And I mean, he was like, you know,

01:30:34.800 --> 01:30:37.529
blood and soil all the way. I mean, he was. He

01:30:37.529 --> 01:30:38.930
was really into it. And their answer was, we

01:30:38.930 --> 01:30:40.670
wanted to represent Hamilton as we think he would

01:30:40.670 --> 01:30:43.890
have existed in the climate of today, not with

01:30:43.890 --> 01:30:46.550
the information he had at the time. Anyway, it

01:30:46.550 --> 01:30:48.130
made a fake person. But one of the other things

01:30:48.130 --> 01:30:50.590
about Hamilton is that he did not support the

01:30:50.590 --> 01:30:52.949
First Amendment. He actually thought that the

01:30:52.949 --> 01:30:56.229
government should be able to criminalize speech

01:30:56.229 --> 01:30:59.850
that lied about the government. in a critical

01:30:59.850 --> 01:31:02.310
way now to be clear he didn't think you should

01:31:02.310 --> 01:31:04.010
be able to regulate everything but his point

01:31:04.010 --> 01:31:06.130
was if someone's lying about the government or

01:31:06.130 --> 01:31:08.210
what it's doing or its authority we have to be

01:31:08.210 --> 01:31:10.029
able to stop that you actually had a counterpoint

01:31:10.029 --> 01:31:11.770
in people like benjamin franklin who of course

01:31:11.770 --> 01:31:14.369
had done like letters pretending to be the king

01:31:14.369 --> 01:31:16.949
of prussia and lots of satirical stuff pretending

01:31:16.949 --> 01:31:19.109
to be the king of england he said no you can't

01:31:19.109 --> 01:31:21.489
you because if you say that we can't make up

01:31:21.489 --> 01:31:23.550
lies about the government then the government

01:31:23.550 --> 01:31:25.770
just needs to make anything that's critical about

01:31:25.770 --> 01:31:30.180
them Because if it's a so -called lie, now they

01:31:30.180 --> 01:31:32.220
can stop it. And so he said, we can't give the

01:31:32.220 --> 01:31:33.420
government the power to do this. So Alexander

01:31:33.420 --> 01:31:35.949
Hamilton was not a fan. And I think that that

01:31:35.949 --> 01:31:37.750
thread has been there through the history of

01:31:37.750 --> 01:31:39.550
our government. There's always been people from

01:31:39.550 --> 01:31:42.109
literally before the founding who believed that

01:31:42.109 --> 01:31:43.909
the state should have a role in influencing the

01:31:43.909 --> 01:31:46.409
media. I mean, you're familiar with all of the

01:31:46.409 --> 01:31:49.829
stuff that came out post -JFK about the media

01:31:49.829 --> 01:31:52.369
influence operations. What was it, like 55 or

01:31:52.369 --> 01:31:55.170
60 different media assets were activated for

01:31:55.170 --> 01:31:58.189
the JFK messaging campaign in national media?

01:31:59.020 --> 01:32:00.960
And so I guess getting back to your question

01:32:00.960 --> 01:32:02.439
of when did they get into social media? I think

01:32:02.439 --> 01:32:04.420
it was probably continuous the whole time. The

01:32:04.420 --> 01:32:06.779
moment that it was of any importance, the moment

01:32:06.779 --> 01:32:09.800
that it was being paid attention to, I'm certain

01:32:09.800 --> 01:32:11.979
that the people who were running these media

01:32:11.979 --> 01:32:14.779
influence operations immediately jumped into

01:32:14.779 --> 01:32:16.520
that new sphere. I can't prove it. That's just

01:32:16.520 --> 01:32:20.149
my. I think before social media, though, like

01:32:20.149 --> 01:32:23.050
I wonder if they were preparing for something

01:32:23.050 --> 01:32:25.470
like that or if it started to happen and they

01:32:25.470 --> 01:32:27.270
didn't recognize what an impact it was going

01:32:27.270 --> 01:32:29.590
to happen. I think they under I think they understood

01:32:29.590 --> 01:32:32.329
the impact of the Internet before social media.

01:32:32.430 --> 01:32:35.449
So even before social media, you had people writing

01:32:35.449 --> 01:32:38.869
blogs. You had people doing these bulletin board

01:32:38.869 --> 01:32:42.449
systems. And it's well known that the CIA was

01:32:42.449 --> 01:32:45.489
active on early bulletin board systems. pushing

01:32:45.489 --> 01:32:47.229
the government perspective. Of course. And so

01:32:47.229 --> 01:32:50.850
I think they've been continuously involved in

01:32:50.850 --> 01:32:54.109
every internet platform, even before social media,

01:32:54.130 --> 01:32:56.489
as we call it today now, was popular. I was watching

01:32:56.489 --> 01:33:00.510
a particular political debate on YouTube. And

01:33:00.510 --> 01:33:02.750
occasionally when I see something that's very

01:33:02.750 --> 01:33:04.590
contentious, I'm like, let me go to the comments

01:33:04.590 --> 01:33:07.310
and see what it is. And it was all bots. It was

01:33:07.310 --> 01:33:10.890
wild. You know, the real obvious bunch of zeros

01:33:10.890 --> 01:33:14.449
and numbers after a name, John, six zeros, 92.

01:33:14.550 --> 01:33:17.430
No profile picture or some ridiculous AI generated

01:33:17.430 --> 01:33:20.689
thing. And then like a very hard line stance

01:33:20.689 --> 01:33:23.569
one way or the other, very inflammatory, causing

01:33:23.569 --> 01:33:26.210
arguments. I was like, this is wild. This is

01:33:26.210 --> 01:33:28.090
all bots. Well, you're familiar with dead internet

01:33:28.090 --> 01:33:31.689
theory, right? Yes. Explain that to people. So

01:33:31.689 --> 01:33:33.489
dead internet theory has been around for quite

01:33:33.489 --> 01:33:36.310
a long time. Probably. long before the Internet

01:33:36.310 --> 01:33:39.130
was actually dead. And it's this theory that

01:33:39.130 --> 01:33:42.770
over time there will be increasing amounts of

01:33:42.770 --> 01:33:45.989
literal robotic content and then also kind of

01:33:45.989 --> 01:33:48.109
like astroturfed fake content, you know, like

01:33:48.109 --> 01:33:50.970
one guy running 100 accounts. And the theory

01:33:50.970 --> 01:33:54.949
is that eventually there will be almost no real

01:33:54.949 --> 01:33:57.010
human back and forth on the Internet, that it's

01:33:57.010 --> 01:33:59.720
actually kind of just propaganda. And counter

01:33:59.720 --> 01:34:03.220
propaganda playing out on a stage for our benefit

01:34:03.220 --> 01:34:05.720
by moneyed interests, whether it's corporations,

01:34:06.060 --> 01:34:09.260
the government, foreign adversaries. And, you

01:34:09.260 --> 01:34:11.260
know, there might be a few people in the mix,

01:34:11.319 --> 01:34:14.939
but it's primarily going to be just robots arguing

01:34:14.939 --> 01:34:18.100
with each other. And I think that more and more

01:34:18.100 --> 01:34:20.000
it's becoming true. Well, it's getting close.

01:34:20.140 --> 01:34:23.180
Like that FBI analyst that when Elon was in the

01:34:23.180 --> 01:34:25.399
middle of buying Twitter, who looked at all the

01:34:25.399 --> 01:34:27.850
different. bots and you know they were trying

01:34:27.850 --> 01:34:29.229
to say it was five percent he said no i think

01:34:29.229 --> 01:34:32.890
it's 80 yep 80 so when you're on twitter and

01:34:32.890 --> 01:34:34.689
you see people arguing and making points and

01:34:34.689 --> 01:34:37.050
even posting things yep well and there was you

01:34:37.050 --> 01:34:39.630
might remember there was the time where uh A

01:34:39.630 --> 01:34:42.189
bunch of the stats for Wikipedia editors came

01:34:42.189 --> 01:34:45.250
out and it was some like enormous fraction of

01:34:45.250 --> 01:34:47.689
edits coming out of one location in Arlington,

01:34:47.770 --> 01:34:52.069
Virginia. Oh, wow. Arlington, Virginia, famously

01:34:52.069 --> 01:34:56.529
the center of academic rigor and excellence.

01:34:56.710 --> 01:34:57.850
There's supposed to be a lot of people living

01:34:57.850 --> 01:34:59.750
there who they just really care about making

01:34:59.750 --> 01:35:02.329
sure Wikipedia is accurate. How odd. How odd.

01:35:02.569 --> 01:35:04.250
Could I take a quick break and get a little bit

01:35:04.250 --> 01:35:05.970
of water? Yeah. Well, there's water right there

01:35:05.970 --> 01:35:07.880
in front of you. There we go. Thank you. I missed

01:35:07.880 --> 01:35:10.039
that. That's all you need? Yeah. We have filtered

01:35:10.039 --> 01:35:14.060
water in that jug. I need to... Pause, ladies

01:35:14.060 --> 01:35:15.899
and gentlemen. We'll be right back. I need to

01:35:15.899 --> 01:35:18.159
take off my jacket, too. It's good when you're

01:35:18.159 --> 01:35:20.100
walking around and there's air moving on it because

01:35:20.100 --> 01:35:22.439
the copper conducts heat away really well. But

01:35:22.439 --> 01:35:24.300
just sitting in here... Is this actually copper?

01:35:24.800 --> 01:35:26.680
Yeah, here. Check it out. Wait, I want to do

01:35:26.680 --> 01:35:30.500
this on camera. Are we still rolling? That's

01:35:30.500 --> 01:35:32.300
a copper jacket? It's from this company called

01:35:32.300 --> 01:35:34.760
Volebox. It's actually made out of copper? It's

01:35:34.760 --> 01:35:36.039
actually made out of copper. Oh my god, it's

01:35:36.039 --> 01:35:38.300
so heavy. Yeah, it weighs like four and a half

01:35:38.300 --> 01:35:40.720
pounds. This is nuts. It's something like 3 ,000

01:35:40.720 --> 01:35:44.079
miles of copper, of ultra -fine copper thread.

01:35:44.260 --> 01:35:46.699
Does this protect you from EMF or maybe some

01:35:46.699 --> 01:35:49.039
Russian signals? If you put your phones into

01:35:49.039 --> 01:35:51.159
that pocket, then no signals go out whatsoever.

01:35:51.159 --> 01:35:52.939
Oh, so it's like a Faraday cage. Yeah, it's a

01:35:52.939 --> 01:35:55.340
little wearable Faraday cage. So it's actually

01:35:55.340 --> 01:35:59.399
got some use beyond being cool. A company makes

01:35:59.399 --> 01:36:01.340
these? Yeah, so the company Volabox is really

01:36:01.340 --> 01:36:03.859
interesting. Volabox. Can I try this on? Yeah,

01:36:03.859 --> 01:36:06.180
of course. They make a bunch of really cool clothes

01:36:06.180 --> 01:36:09.000
out of very novel materials, some of them very

01:36:09.000 --> 01:36:11.880
futuristic. They make a jacket out of the material

01:36:11.880 --> 01:36:15.829
that the... Mars rover parachute was made. So

01:36:15.829 --> 01:36:18.189
it's like a supersonic parachute material made

01:36:18.189 --> 01:36:19.630
out of Kevlar. It is pretty weird. This would

01:36:19.630 --> 01:36:22.250
make me feel very restricted. Well, you're also

01:36:22.250 --> 01:36:24.930
a lot bigger than me. So I'm a little skinny.

01:36:25.189 --> 01:36:29.510
But it seems to fit. But it just seems heavy

01:36:29.510 --> 01:36:33.029
and restrictive. You do have to make sure you

01:36:33.029 --> 01:36:34.569
size it where there's plenty of room to move

01:36:34.569 --> 01:36:36.550
around inside of it because it does not stretch

01:36:36.550 --> 01:36:39.069
at all. What's the benefit? So there's a few

01:36:39.069 --> 01:36:42.640
benefits. The first is that it looks sweet. Jamie's

01:36:42.640 --> 01:36:44.520
ordering one right now. Look at him. The other

01:36:44.520 --> 01:36:47.500
is that copper is an antimicrobial material,

01:36:47.600 --> 01:36:50.720
so you never get mildew on it. You never get

01:36:50.720 --> 01:36:55.140
mold. It magically kills all of that stuff. Also,

01:36:55.239 --> 01:36:56.859
I mentioned earlier, the pockets are basically

01:36:56.859 --> 01:36:59.659
a Faraday cage. So if I want my phone to get

01:36:59.659 --> 01:37:02.739
calls, I keep it in my pants pocket. If I want

01:37:02.739 --> 01:37:04.460
to disappear, I put it in my jacket pocket. If

01:37:04.460 --> 01:37:06.140
there was a jacket that Palmer Luckey was wearing,

01:37:06.340 --> 01:37:08.800
I would hope it would be this. Like when you

01:37:08.800 --> 01:37:10.439
showed up in this crazy jacket, I'm like, that's

01:37:10.439 --> 01:37:11.819
what I would hope. They've got a new one. That's

01:37:11.819 --> 01:37:14.300
a t -shirt that's made out of carbon nanotubes.

01:37:14.380 --> 01:37:16.199
So you should check, you should check that out.

01:37:16.239 --> 01:37:17.659
They're working on, they're working on some wild

01:37:17.659 --> 01:37:22.760
next gen stuff. Whoa. Um, sorry. Give me just

01:37:22.760 --> 01:37:24.119
a second. I just got to take it. I actually just

01:37:24.119 --> 01:37:25.899
need to take a mental, a mental, a mental break.

01:37:26.060 --> 01:37:27.920
Is that okay? Yeah. Take a break. I'll take a

01:37:27.920 --> 01:37:29.340
leak. All right. Thank you. I appreciate it.

01:37:30.270 --> 01:37:32.310
So there's a place called Commando Store? You

01:37:32.310 --> 01:37:34.050
were talking about these pants that I have. Well,

01:37:34.050 --> 01:37:35.670
yeah, we were just talking about your Tiger Stripe

01:37:35.670 --> 01:37:39.409
Ranger panties. And Commando Store is doing these

01:37:39.409 --> 01:37:42.409
reproductions of vintage gear, like Vietnam -era

01:37:42.409 --> 01:37:45.430
U .S. gear, Russian gear, using modern materials,

01:37:45.569 --> 01:37:48.430
but old camo prints, and they're super authentic.

01:37:48.750 --> 01:37:50.270
But the problem is a lot of this actual gear,

01:37:50.550 --> 01:37:52.789
it's all mildewed, it's destroyed, the thread

01:37:52.789 --> 01:37:56.149
is all crusty and busting apart. And so if you

01:37:56.149 --> 01:37:58.350
actually want to be authentic, like the guys

01:37:58.350 --> 01:38:00.819
in the Vietnamese jungle, Did not look like they

01:38:00.819 --> 01:38:03.119
were wearing old, crappy, busted apart gear.

01:38:03.260 --> 01:38:05.159
Their gear was fresh. And so if you want to look

01:38:05.159 --> 01:38:07.359
just like they did, you actually have to buy

01:38:07.359 --> 01:38:10.739
newly manufactured gear. But I'll send you some

01:38:10.739 --> 01:38:12.479
links. They have a lot of really cool tiger stripe

01:38:12.479 --> 01:38:15.340
stuff that's very, very cool and authentic. Nice.

01:38:15.680 --> 01:38:18.520
When you were a kid, did you ever imagine you'd

01:38:18.520 --> 01:38:22.600
be selling weapons? Does that ever seem surreal

01:38:22.600 --> 01:38:25.000
to you that you go from being this guy who's

01:38:25.000 --> 01:38:29.050
really into VR to weapons manufacturing? It seems

01:38:29.050 --> 01:38:31.850
a little bit surreal, but only a little bit.

01:38:32.689 --> 01:38:37.229
Growing up, I always would be the guy who identified

01:38:37.229 --> 01:38:40.970
with the guy in the story who was making the

01:38:40.970 --> 01:38:43.750
tools. So when I would watch James Bond, I never

01:38:43.750 --> 01:38:46.630
thought, I'm James Bond. It was like, oh, I want

01:38:46.630 --> 01:38:49.170
to be Q. I want to be the guy making the tools.

01:38:49.470 --> 01:38:54.050
Or Tony Stark. Exactly. And Tony did it all.

01:38:55.760 --> 01:38:59.239
I have to admit, it's certainly a thought that

01:38:59.239 --> 01:39:04.060
occurred to me. One of my favorite anime characters

01:39:04.060 --> 01:39:08.680
was an anti -hero named Seto Kaiba who ran a

01:39:08.680 --> 01:39:11.800
weapons company that was also a virtual reality

01:39:11.800 --> 01:39:17.439
company. They built virtual reality gaming simulator

01:39:17.439 --> 01:39:22.300
pods and also weapons. And so it's really weird.

01:39:22.359 --> 01:39:25.909
You start to ponder. are you really making decisions

01:39:25.909 --> 01:39:27.930
with free will or are you actually just like

01:39:27.930 --> 01:39:29.890
enacting the programming of when you're a kid?

01:39:30.050 --> 01:39:34.010
Like, like I, like I, it's, it's hard to really

01:39:34.010 --> 01:39:36.069
know, but like when people like, Oh, but you

01:39:36.069 --> 01:39:37.189
know, Palmer, how'd you get into this stuff?

01:39:37.229 --> 01:39:39.550
It's like, I mean, I remember being like seven

01:39:39.550 --> 01:39:41.869
years old and, and, and thinking about the stuff

01:39:41.869 --> 01:39:44.979
or like you watch a, you watch like. I grew up

01:39:44.979 --> 01:39:46.699
watching Power Rangers when I was a really little

01:39:46.699 --> 01:39:49.439
kid, reruns of the first season of Power Rangers.

01:39:49.539 --> 01:39:51.300
And the character I most identified was like

01:39:51.300 --> 01:39:53.560
the techno wizard of the group Billy, who was

01:39:53.560 --> 01:39:57.140
building like flying cars and upgrading their

01:39:57.140 --> 01:39:59.739
robot suits. And I don't know, it's really weird

01:39:59.739 --> 01:40:02.420
when you end up as an adult just doing exactly

01:40:02.420 --> 01:40:05.520
what you were fascinated with when you're a kid.

01:40:05.680 --> 01:40:07.840
Because what you're fascinated with when you're

01:40:07.840 --> 01:40:09.720
a kid is really it's a function of what's put

01:40:09.720 --> 01:40:11.800
in front of you. Right. Like, like what if I

01:40:11.800 --> 01:40:13.840
would have had different things? What if you

01:40:13.840 --> 01:40:16.340
lived in Montana? Yeah. What if I lived in Montana?

01:40:16.760 --> 01:40:20.880
What if, you know, what if I, you know, what

01:40:20.880 --> 01:40:22.220
if, what if, what if, like, is there a world

01:40:22.220 --> 01:40:24.100
where, is there a world like I grew up in Nashville

01:40:24.100 --> 01:40:27.460
and I would have inevitably been a musician and

01:40:27.460 --> 01:40:29.380
like almost without even being able to choose

01:40:29.380 --> 01:40:31.260
it. Even if I went in one direction, what I've

01:40:31.260 --> 01:40:33.739
ended up coming back to it. Probably. Look, all

01:40:33.739 --> 01:40:35.720
those things are interesting. And you're a guy

01:40:35.720 --> 01:40:38.180
who's into interesting things. It's just finding

01:40:38.180 --> 01:40:41.079
whatever the path is. That you think is interesting

01:40:41.079 --> 01:40:44.520
and just going in that direction. Your direction

01:40:44.520 --> 01:40:46.520
was kind of established by your interest when

01:40:46.520 --> 01:40:48.899
you were younger. So it probably seems surreal

01:40:48.899 --> 01:40:51.699
just in the fact that you've gone so far with

01:40:51.699 --> 01:40:53.300
it to the point where you're actually making

01:40:53.300 --> 01:40:56.199
weapons to defend other countries. Well, that's

01:40:56.199 --> 01:40:58.239
the crazy thing is I think part of the reason

01:40:58.239 --> 01:41:00.880
it's so wild, my progression, is it only happens

01:41:00.880 --> 01:41:05.399
if it's successful continuously. Right. So like

01:41:05.399 --> 01:41:10.020
a world where I don't. basically figure out how

01:41:10.020 --> 01:41:12.640
to build good virtual reality technology is one

01:41:12.640 --> 01:41:14.779
where Oculus doesn't exist. If Oculus doesn't

01:41:14.779 --> 01:41:16.859
exist, I don't get bought by Facebook. I don't

01:41:16.859 --> 01:41:18.779
go to Silicon Valley. I don't become kind of

01:41:18.779 --> 01:41:21.060
one of the leading tech figures in that industry

01:41:21.060 --> 01:41:22.380
up there. You have to hit every green light.

01:41:22.479 --> 01:41:23.340
You have to hit every green light. And like,

01:41:23.359 --> 01:41:26.539
you know who funded Anderle when I started it?

01:41:26.640 --> 01:41:28.840
Like, yes, me. I put a lot of my money into it,

01:41:28.859 --> 01:41:30.979
but it was all of these same investors who had

01:41:30.979 --> 01:41:32.979
invested in Oculus. I mean, literally the same

01:41:32.979 --> 01:41:35.420
people. It's like Brian Singerman is a good example.

01:41:35.819 --> 01:41:37.960
He was a partner at Founders Fund, which was

01:41:37.960 --> 01:41:40.600
Peter Thiel's investment fund. They decided to

01:41:40.600 --> 01:41:44.680
put $1 million into Oculus before any other fund

01:41:44.680 --> 01:41:46.920
was willing to give us money. So they were the

01:41:46.920 --> 01:41:51.039
first institutional money into Oculus VR. And

01:41:51.039 --> 01:41:55.439
then he ended up being our first investor also

01:41:55.439 --> 01:41:57.920
in Anduril. So you're talking about the same

01:41:57.920 --> 01:42:00.840
people, even. These relationships come back around.

01:42:01.000 --> 01:42:03.220
And then that turns into running a weapons company.

01:42:03.399 --> 01:42:06.319
And then that turns into... Building more efficient

01:42:06.319 --> 01:42:08.380
weapons. And then like one of our recent wins,

01:42:08.600 --> 01:42:12.899
we were competing, Andrew, with Boeing and Lockheed

01:42:12.899 --> 01:42:16.380
Martin and Northrop Grumman to build the Air

01:42:16.380 --> 01:42:19.479
Force's first AI powered fighter jet. So the

01:42:19.479 --> 01:42:22.579
first fighter jet with no human pilot, not limited

01:42:22.579 --> 01:42:26.140
by human ability, instead limited by the ability

01:42:26.140 --> 01:42:28.960
of this robot brain making the whole thing go.

01:42:29.439 --> 01:42:32.539
And we beat them. I mean, how crazy is that?

01:42:34.199 --> 01:42:36.079
That's what's crazy to me. It's not sitting here

01:42:36.079 --> 01:42:37.520
crazy like, oh, is it crazy I'm building weapons?

01:42:37.699 --> 01:42:40.539
For me, it's crazy. It's not that hard to imagine

01:42:40.539 --> 01:42:44.119
you end up building guns for the Marines. But

01:42:44.119 --> 01:42:46.560
what's really nothing against the Marines or

01:42:46.560 --> 01:42:47.779
the people who build guns for them. I love those

01:42:47.779 --> 01:42:50.880
guys. The crazy part to me is that all these

01:42:50.880 --> 01:42:53.279
things have gone right over and over to the point

01:42:53.279 --> 01:42:55.939
where I can literally have billions of dollars

01:42:55.939 --> 01:42:59.699
at my disposal from my investors. to build multi

01:42:59.699 --> 01:43:02.340
-million square foot factories, to build, act

01:43:02.340 --> 01:43:04.659
like the Air Force's first AI fighter jet, which

01:43:04.659 --> 01:43:06.300
is the official designation they just gave it

01:43:06.300 --> 01:43:09.779
is the FQ -44. F for fighter, Q for unmanned,

01:43:09.880 --> 01:43:13.300
and then 44 is the number designation. Whoa.

01:43:13.579 --> 01:43:15.880
Yeah. That's the crazy thing. When I lay awake

01:43:15.880 --> 01:43:17.479
at night, that's what I'm thinking about. It's

01:43:17.479 --> 01:43:19.319
not so much that I am building weapons, it's

01:43:19.319 --> 01:43:22.720
that we're actually pulling off things that make

01:43:22.720 --> 01:43:24.539
a difference. And by the way, AI fighter jets

01:43:24.539 --> 01:43:29.039
- There it is. There it is. So that was - wind

01:43:29.039 --> 01:43:32.520
tunnel test and you'll notice there's no Protrusion

01:43:32.520 --> 01:43:35.460
for a cockpit the whole it's it's a stealth aircraft

01:43:35.460 --> 01:43:39.579
low signature Uses the same weapon systems that

01:43:39.579 --> 01:43:41.819
are real fighter jet uses. That's what it looks

01:43:41.819 --> 01:43:44.140
like in the front Yep, so this was that was that

01:43:44.140 --> 01:43:46.640
was a very early very very early propulsion system

01:43:46.640 --> 01:43:51.420
test and One of the crazy things what's the is

01:43:51.420 --> 01:43:54.489
that what they look like yep? Yeah. So one of

01:43:54.489 --> 01:43:56.909
the crazy things about this is that the United

01:43:56.909 --> 01:44:00.149
States. So the idea is you have a bunch of these

01:44:00.149 --> 01:44:03.449
for every manned fighter because they're cheaper.

01:44:03.729 --> 01:44:06.609
They are more expendable. You can take more risk

01:44:06.609 --> 01:44:09.350
with them. So imagine this. I've got an F -35

01:44:09.350 --> 01:44:13.029
flying with five of these things. The original

01:44:13.029 --> 01:44:14.869
name of the program was Loyal Wingman. The idea

01:44:14.869 --> 01:44:17.369
is that I have a loyal wingman, does whatever

01:44:17.369 --> 01:44:19.770
I tell him. I can talk to it like I would any

01:44:19.770 --> 01:44:24.119
human. you know, co -worker, and it's going to

01:44:24.119 --> 01:44:26.279
go in and do what I tell it. But it's never going

01:44:26.279 --> 01:44:29.000
to question my orders. It's never going to try

01:44:29.000 --> 01:44:32.380
to save itself if it means ruining the mission.

01:44:32.819 --> 01:44:35.319
And one of the craziest things about autonomous

01:44:35.319 --> 01:44:37.979
aircraft is that the United States has spent

01:44:37.979 --> 01:44:40.640
basically a century figuring out what works in

01:44:40.640 --> 01:44:42.359
air combat. I mean, you've seen Top Gun, right?

01:44:43.199 --> 01:44:44.880
You know, they have this book of tactics that

01:44:44.880 --> 01:44:47.159
they need to learn to stay alive, how you measure,

01:44:47.260 --> 01:44:49.500
how you manage your energy and your altitude

01:44:49.500 --> 01:44:51.800
and your position so that you destroy the enemy

01:44:51.800 --> 01:44:55.659
and you don't get destroyed yourself. There's

01:44:55.659 --> 01:45:00.239
another book of tactics that will allow you to

01:45:00.239 --> 01:45:02.859
destroy the enemy, but will probably get you

01:45:02.859 --> 01:45:05.319
killed in the process. We don't teach those generally,

01:45:05.399 --> 01:45:07.420
or if we do, it's in the context of don't do

01:45:07.420 --> 01:45:10.220
this. All of those tactics are on the table when

01:45:10.220 --> 01:45:13.119
it comes to AI. powered fighter jets. I can now

01:45:13.119 --> 01:45:16.180
have it doing things that are so risky that a

01:45:16.180 --> 01:45:18.600
human pilot would never even try the maneuver.

01:45:18.739 --> 01:45:20.439
Because let's say it's a coin flip. It's a 50

01:45:20.439 --> 01:45:24.420
-50 chance that you're going to die, but a 100

01:45:24.420 --> 01:45:26.579
% chance that I'm going to be able to take out

01:45:26.579 --> 01:45:28.579
the enemy target. Imagine going after something

01:45:28.579 --> 01:45:31.199
where I know I'm probably going to get shot down

01:45:31.199 --> 01:45:33.579
at the end of that maneuver, but I definitely

01:45:33.579 --> 01:45:35.819
take out all the surface -to -air missile launchers

01:45:35.819 --> 01:45:38.779
on the shore, which then allow everything else

01:45:38.779 --> 01:45:40.380
to come in through the gap that you just cleared.

01:45:40.829 --> 01:45:42.810
You'll make that trade every day. You'll trade

01:45:42.810 --> 01:45:45.630
a cheap AI fighter jet to blow up a bunch of

01:45:45.630 --> 01:45:49.930
really expensive manned or autonomous systems

01:45:49.930 --> 01:45:52.630
in the air or on the ground every time if it

01:45:52.630 --> 01:45:54.810
allows you to accomplish that mission. And so

01:45:54.810 --> 01:45:58.130
autonomy, it really changes the game on this

01:45:58.130 --> 01:46:01.130
stuff. It's not an incremental change in tactics.

01:46:01.250 --> 01:46:04.029
It's a complete revolution. What do you think

01:46:04.029 --> 01:46:06.920
that New Jersey shit was all about? Like the

01:46:06.920 --> 01:46:09.279
unidentified aerial phenomenon? What was that

01:46:09.279 --> 01:46:11.279
all about? What's so interesting about the New

01:46:11.279 --> 01:46:14.100
Jersey stuff, and you're probably tracking this

01:46:14.100 --> 01:46:19.239
as well or better than me, but it is so perfectly

01:46:19.239 --> 01:46:22.560
aligned with things that we've seen in the past.

01:46:22.720 --> 01:46:25.300
Like you're familiar with all the overflights

01:46:25.300 --> 01:46:28.159
and hovering over nuclear facilities and military

01:46:28.159 --> 01:46:31.060
bases in the past. Here's what I think happened.

01:46:31.859 --> 01:46:34.279
I think that there was something really weird

01:46:34.279 --> 01:46:37.600
that was going on. I think briefly there was

01:46:37.600 --> 01:46:39.800
something that was really unexplained. And then

01:46:39.800 --> 01:46:42.180
what happened, unfortunately, is everyone found

01:46:42.180 --> 01:46:44.479
out about it online. Everybody got their drones,

01:46:44.619 --> 01:46:46.819
put them in their cars, drove out there to go

01:46:46.819 --> 01:46:49.020
out and try and fly it. And then I think that

01:46:49.020 --> 01:46:50.920
the next three weeks were a bunch of idiots with

01:46:50.920 --> 01:46:52.779
drones flying in circles, looking at each other.

01:46:52.859 --> 01:46:55.920
I've seen all these videos, 99 % of them. It's

01:46:55.920 --> 01:46:57.520
pretty obvious that the thing they're looking

01:46:57.520 --> 01:47:00.869
at is. another DJI drone that is also looking

01:47:00.869 --> 01:47:03.590
at them and saying, oh, dude, oh, shit, there

01:47:03.590 --> 01:47:06.770
it is. It was kind of this crazy media circus.

01:47:07.069 --> 01:47:09.770
I think there was something that was real. And

01:47:09.770 --> 01:47:12.189
then very, very quickly it evolved into being

01:47:12.189 --> 01:47:15.649
just kind of a flash mob social media circus.

01:47:15.989 --> 01:47:18.170
I think that's probably accurate because a lot

01:47:18.170 --> 01:47:20.289
of it was in Austin as well. It was like these

01:47:20.289 --> 01:47:22.390
enthusiasts were getting their drones out everywhere.

01:47:22.930 --> 01:47:25.109
That's right. And it was like, it's drone time.

01:47:26.510 --> 01:47:32.829
Have you heard the, what do they call it? There's

01:47:32.829 --> 01:47:34.350
a theory that someone's come up with. I forget

01:47:34.350 --> 01:47:38.609
what it is. It's like proliferation masking or

01:47:38.609 --> 01:47:40.949
something. Have you heard the theory that modern

01:47:40.949 --> 01:47:44.529
drone technology was seeded by aliens so that

01:47:44.529 --> 01:47:46.630
we would create a bunch of things that would

01:47:46.630 --> 01:47:49.350
be up in the sky that look kind of like their

01:47:49.350 --> 01:47:51.510
aircraft so that they would basically act as

01:47:51.510 --> 01:47:52.970
cover for the real activity? Have you heard this

01:47:52.970 --> 01:47:55.350
theory? I don't really believe it because I actually

01:47:55.350 --> 01:47:57.409
have met with the people who kind of invented

01:47:57.409 --> 01:48:02.680
modern quadcopters and flight controllers. But

01:48:02.680 --> 01:48:05.600
the idea is very interesting, and it makes me

01:48:05.600 --> 01:48:07.880
wonder if there might be some truth to it elsewhere

01:48:07.880 --> 01:48:10.640
in the world. It sure is convenient. Imagine

01:48:10.640 --> 01:48:12.960
that you're an alien. You're regularly operating

01:48:12.960 --> 01:48:14.819
around military bases, nuclear infrastructure.

01:48:15.159 --> 01:48:17.819
Wouldn't it be convenient if there was something

01:48:17.819 --> 01:48:22.039
else that people could explain away? Wouldn't

01:48:22.039 --> 01:48:23.079
it be great if there was something that also

01:48:23.079 --> 01:48:25.560
darted around and hovered in place and was very

01:48:25.560 --> 01:48:27.859
quiet and just little tiny flashing lights? Wouldn't

01:48:27.859 --> 01:48:30.000
that be really convenient as a cover for what

01:48:30.000 --> 01:48:34.619
you are doing? These same activities in, like,

01:48:34.619 --> 01:48:37.039
the 50s and the 60s, there was nothing like that,

01:48:37.119 --> 01:48:38.960
right? Like, back then, if you said, oh, yeah,

01:48:39.000 --> 01:48:42.220
I saw 100 red lights orbiting around that nuclear

01:48:42.220 --> 01:48:45.319
facility, all you could say was, holy shit, what

01:48:45.319 --> 01:48:48.340
in the world could that be? And today, it's so

01:48:48.340 --> 01:48:51.260
easy to say, oh, it's just some drones. Right.

01:48:51.439 --> 01:48:53.359
And so, unfortunately, it's a lot harder to know

01:48:53.359 --> 01:48:56.340
what's real. And I wish I could travel back in

01:48:56.340 --> 01:48:59.239
time, even just, you know, 10 or 20 years to...

01:48:59.930 --> 01:49:02.050
Do the Mulder and Scully thing I talked about

01:49:02.050 --> 01:49:09.130
earlier. Be the billionaire James Bond X -Files

01:49:09.130 --> 01:49:13.470
guy with a badge and a checkbook. I feel like

01:49:13.470 --> 01:49:15.210
you could really find some interesting stuff.

01:49:15.449 --> 01:49:18.789
When you say that something weird was happening

01:49:18.789 --> 01:49:24.189
in New Jersey, what are you saying? Something

01:49:24.189 --> 01:49:27.409
that was observable by some sensors and not by

01:49:27.409 --> 01:49:29.510
other sensors. And that's really the common thread

01:49:29.510 --> 01:49:31.489
between a lot of these things. Like it'll show

01:49:31.489 --> 01:49:34.350
up on visual. Like a guy sees it with his eyes

01:49:34.350 --> 01:49:36.810
and he sees it with a thermal sensor, but it

01:49:36.810 --> 01:49:38.670
isn't showing up on radar. Or something where

01:49:38.670 --> 01:49:41.630
they'll see it on radar, but they can't. pick

01:49:41.630 --> 01:49:43.189
it up on other sensors. And of course there are

01:49:43.189 --> 01:49:45.569
some things where it's multi -sensor, but in

01:49:45.569 --> 01:49:48.250
general, I say something weird. It's not obviously

01:49:48.250 --> 01:49:49.989
just drawn or weird. And then it's acting in

01:49:49.989 --> 01:49:51.729
ways we don't expect. Like how does something

01:49:51.729 --> 01:49:53.970
move so quickly and not have any skin heating?

01:49:54.090 --> 01:49:56.630
Why isn't it white hot? If it's moving that fast

01:49:56.630 --> 01:49:58.770
to the air, how can it change direction so quickly

01:49:58.770 --> 01:50:00.970
without the airframe tearing apart? That's what

01:50:00.970 --> 01:50:03.569
I mean by weird. And I look, I don't know what

01:50:03.569 --> 01:50:05.890
this stuff is. When you say, but weird, like

01:50:05.890 --> 01:50:09.189
what was observed? So the weird thing that was

01:50:09.189 --> 01:50:12.649
observed was. was primarily that there was something

01:50:12.649 --> 01:50:14.289
there in an area that it shouldn't have been

01:50:14.289 --> 01:50:15.789
and that there shouldn't have been anything.

01:50:16.869 --> 01:50:18.510
There should not have been anything that was

01:50:18.510 --> 01:50:21.369
able to endure for that long in that area with

01:50:21.369 --> 01:50:24.310
those characteristics, like little tiny drones

01:50:24.310 --> 01:50:27.689
that cannot show up on radar and that can kind

01:50:27.689 --> 01:50:30.170
of hide in place like that. They don't have hours

01:50:30.170 --> 01:50:32.329
and hours and hours of endurance, right? They

01:50:32.329 --> 01:50:35.789
fly for 25, 30 minutes tops. And then also they

01:50:35.789 --> 01:50:37.229
typically would need to be launched by something,

01:50:37.250 --> 01:50:39.010
you know, right close to there. And the particular

01:50:39.010 --> 01:50:41.260
area it was in. It would have been really hard

01:50:41.260 --> 01:50:43.539
to launch from one of the nearby areas, get over

01:50:43.539 --> 01:50:47.239
the water, get to there, and then stay there

01:50:47.239 --> 01:50:51.079
as long as it did. It's not the weirdest thing

01:50:51.079 --> 01:50:53.079
that people have seen, though. Like the Hellfire

01:50:53.079 --> 01:50:55.479
thing recently with the missile. That was some

01:50:55.479 --> 01:50:57.340
of the weirdest stuff that I've seen. That's

01:50:57.340 --> 01:50:59.760
so weird because it got hit and it just shook

01:50:59.760 --> 01:51:02.300
it off and kept moving. And it looks almost like

01:51:02.300 --> 01:51:04.539
there were like pieces. It's like something reconstituted.

01:51:04.699 --> 01:51:08.300
Right. Like it took pieces of it. So one of...

01:51:08.699 --> 01:51:11.659
I don't know if you've done – everyone wants

01:51:11.659 --> 01:51:13.560
to believe that it's aliens. And, like, that's

01:51:13.560 --> 01:51:16.899
what I want to believe. Of course. I don't think

01:51:16.899 --> 01:51:19.500
that it is a foreign adversary. Like, I don't

01:51:19.500 --> 01:51:21.300
buy into the idea that the Chinese or the Russians

01:51:21.300 --> 01:51:25.560
have secretly figured this out. But then the

01:51:25.560 --> 01:51:27.220
question is, OK, well, what does that leave?

01:51:27.460 --> 01:51:30.680
And I feel like my gut is that it's something

01:51:30.680 --> 01:51:34.439
that is weirder than anything that anyone has

01:51:34.439 --> 01:51:37.989
made popular. Like, just as an example. It's

01:51:37.989 --> 01:51:40.770
literally bleeding in from some parallel dimension.

01:51:40.850 --> 01:51:43.449
It's an energy signature, and it's co -aligned

01:51:43.449 --> 01:51:46.510
by accident rather than intent. It's there because

01:51:46.510 --> 01:51:49.170
there's something in its parallel universe that

01:51:49.170 --> 01:51:51.430
is similar to what we're doing, and that's why

01:51:51.430 --> 01:51:53.329
they're co -aligned. I know this sounds like

01:51:53.329 --> 01:51:56.649
weirdo mumbo jumbo, but it seems like something

01:51:56.649 --> 01:51:59.550
like that even would be more likely. Did you

01:51:59.550 --> 01:52:05.960
ever read Michael Critchin's novel? The Sphere?

01:52:06.100 --> 01:52:08.539
Or was it just Sphere? No. All right. You mind

01:52:08.539 --> 01:52:10.420
if I spoil Sphere for you? Yeah, please. So there

01:52:10.420 --> 01:52:12.359
was a movie. It was not nearly as good as the

01:52:12.359 --> 01:52:14.779
book. So in Sphere, without spoiling the ending,

01:52:14.960 --> 01:52:17.020
the very beginning of it is you have this researcher

01:52:17.020 --> 01:52:20.260
who is brought out to this secret naval research

01:52:20.260 --> 01:52:22.960
facility in the Pacific Ocean because the Navy

01:52:22.960 --> 01:52:26.199
has discovered a massive object, multiple kilometers

01:52:26.199 --> 01:52:31.399
long, lying on top of a shallow coral reef on

01:52:31.399 --> 01:52:34.310
some atoll covered in coral. that appears to

01:52:34.310 --> 01:52:37.489
be a spacecraft, an alien spacecraft. And they

01:52:37.489 --> 01:52:40.750
figured out that when it crashed thousands of

01:52:40.750 --> 01:52:43.090
years ago there, it probably crashed onto an

01:52:43.090 --> 01:52:46.289
island, which then sea levels rose, and then

01:52:46.289 --> 01:52:48.409
it became covered. So by this, they basically

01:52:48.409 --> 01:52:50.149
figure out it must have been there for about

01:52:50.149 --> 01:52:53.529
3 ,000 or 4 ,000 years, this spaceship. And so

01:52:53.529 --> 01:52:55.289
the Navy is going and they're trying to figure

01:52:55.289 --> 01:52:57.390
out what it is. They're scraping coral off this

01:52:57.390 --> 01:52:59.890
ship. They bring in this researcher. And as the

01:52:59.890 --> 01:53:01.750
researcher is being brought to the site, they

01:53:01.750 --> 01:53:03.909
discover for the first time what they've been

01:53:03.909 --> 01:53:06.750
looking for, a door into the air. They were scraping

01:53:06.750 --> 01:53:08.970
the coral off, looking for some way in through

01:53:08.970 --> 01:53:12.069
this ultra tough metallic alloy that had never

01:53:12.069 --> 01:53:16.789
been observed ever in nature or science. And

01:53:16.789 --> 01:53:19.430
then the big reveal of like the first arc of

01:53:19.430 --> 01:53:22.739
the book is they scrape off the coral. They look

01:53:22.739 --> 01:53:25.560
at the door. Incredible. It's a door. But then

01:53:25.560 --> 01:53:27.539
they look next to the door and there's a marking.

01:53:27.659 --> 01:53:29.880
And what does the marking say on this 3 ,000

01:53:29.880 --> 01:53:34.159
-year -old spaceship? United States Navy and

01:53:34.159 --> 01:53:38.939
an American flag. And what's interesting is they

01:53:38.939 --> 01:53:42.180
never actually fully explain it. But the implication

01:53:42.180 --> 01:53:45.479
is, and what they believe happened, is that this

01:53:45.479 --> 01:53:48.760
was a time -traveling craft that somehow went

01:53:48.760 --> 01:53:53.300
back in time. Or alternately, that it's actually

01:53:53.300 --> 01:53:56.460
from some distant past civilization that traveled

01:53:56.460 --> 01:53:59.659
forward in time, like maybe went to space, did

01:53:59.659 --> 01:54:02.039
some exploring and came back. Maybe the United

01:54:02.039 --> 01:54:05.659
States is actually a purpose reconstitution of

01:54:05.659 --> 01:54:08.340
the branding and social structures of some long

01:54:08.340 --> 01:54:11.800
lost society from 500 million years ago. I'm

01:54:11.800 --> 01:54:13.399
not saying that's necessarily what's happening,

01:54:13.479 --> 01:54:15.819
but I think that that's actually more likely

01:54:15.819 --> 01:54:19.779
than it being. aliens from another galaxy coming

01:54:19.779 --> 01:54:24.680
to where we are. It's just, that is actually

01:54:24.680 --> 01:54:27.079
harder for me to believe than something that

01:54:27.079 --> 01:54:29.819
is of our own little local solar sphere and just

01:54:29.819 --> 01:54:32.699
really, truly bizarre and not being taken seriously.

01:54:32.720 --> 01:54:35.819
Why is that harder to believe? Why is space travel

01:54:35.819 --> 01:54:38.800
harder to believe than time travel? It's mostly

01:54:38.800 --> 01:54:41.560
all of the... Or dimension travel. So dimensional

01:54:41.560 --> 01:54:44.319
travel, that's totally believable. Specifically,

01:54:44.640 --> 01:54:47.220
the thing I think is least likely is... That

01:54:47.220 --> 01:54:50.220
using normal conventional physics that we understand,

01:54:50.479 --> 01:54:52.659
it's people coming from another place that's

01:54:52.659 --> 01:54:54.859
many light years away coming to where we are.

01:54:54.939 --> 01:54:57.970
It's just, it's a matter of. We haven't observed

01:54:57.970 --> 01:54:59.949
anything that could do that. We haven't seen

01:54:59.949 --> 01:55:01.409
any synthetic material that could do that. We

01:55:01.409 --> 01:55:03.130
haven't seen any natural phenomena that could

01:55:03.130 --> 01:55:04.829
do that. Right, but if you just go back 200 years

01:55:04.829 --> 01:55:07.770
ago, a cell phone is impossible. But the difference

01:55:07.770 --> 01:55:10.069
here is that we're able to see millions of years

01:55:10.069 --> 01:55:12.270
of history of the universe coming into us, right?

01:55:12.350 --> 01:55:14.750
We're observing things that happened hundreds

01:55:14.750 --> 01:55:16.590
of years ago, thousands of years ago, millions

01:55:16.590 --> 01:55:19.350
of years ago from all over our galaxy and other

01:55:19.350 --> 01:55:22.390
galaxies. And there's a lot of markers that you

01:55:22.390 --> 01:55:24.909
would expect to see that would line up with how

01:55:24.909 --> 01:55:27.710
we understand intelligent life. And we're just

01:55:27.710 --> 01:55:29.069
not seeing them. And you're familiar with like

01:55:29.069 --> 01:55:32.390
dark forest theory. Maybe the civilizations that

01:55:32.390 --> 01:55:34.829
emanate those signals get whacked down before

01:55:34.829 --> 01:55:36.270
they become a threat to the dominant powers.

01:55:36.390 --> 01:55:39.229
Maybe everyone's hiding, right? There are these

01:55:39.229 --> 01:55:42.079
theories as to why. this is the case. And maybe

01:55:42.079 --> 01:55:43.939
we're being, you've heard probably the theory

01:55:43.939 --> 01:55:46.439
about us being idiots for transmitting. Like

01:55:46.439 --> 01:55:48.520
Stephen Hawking was of this opinion. He thought

01:55:48.520 --> 01:55:51.319
it was really stupid for us to try and make first

01:55:51.319 --> 01:55:55.319
contact. His point was not just that it's probably

01:55:55.319 --> 01:55:58.760
a bad idea in general. His point was the fact

01:55:58.760 --> 01:56:01.359
that we haven't observed it from anyone else

01:56:01.359 --> 01:56:05.640
suggests a lot of danger in doing so. Like it

01:56:05.640 --> 01:56:08.460
could mean that nobody's doing it. It could mean

01:56:08.460 --> 01:56:11.619
that anyone who does it gets wiped out. If you

01:56:11.619 --> 01:56:14.119
stand up, you get knocked down. And so it's just

01:56:14.119 --> 01:56:18.060
– I have a hard time believing that it's a conventional

01:56:18.060 --> 01:56:21.640
thing on another planet that comes to see us.

01:56:21.739 --> 01:56:23.220
That's not to say there isn't life out there

01:56:23.220 --> 01:56:25.380
in the universe. I think it's out there. But

01:56:25.380 --> 01:56:27.279
for whatever reason, it doesn't seem to be life

01:56:27.279 --> 01:56:32.079
that's capable of inter -solar system or intergalactic

01:56:32.079 --> 01:56:34.680
travel. But what do you think of people that

01:56:34.680 --> 01:56:37.899
talk about some sort of a potential – science

01:56:37.899 --> 01:56:40.699
that eventually gets cracked where it's a gravity

01:56:40.699 --> 01:56:43.319
drive like something that folds space -time in

01:56:43.319 --> 01:56:45.319
that case and so what this is one of my favorite

01:56:45.319 --> 01:56:47.340
favorite favorite theories about this like people

01:56:47.340 --> 01:56:51.140
talk about about that there's a question like

01:56:51.140 --> 01:56:53.199
if you're actually folding space -time or breaking

01:56:53.199 --> 01:56:56.880
space -time uh there's a question as to are you

01:56:56.880 --> 01:56:59.680
going to see visitors from another part of your

01:56:59.680 --> 01:57:02.319
plane of existence that are just using that technology

01:57:02.319 --> 01:57:05.380
to jump a few miles over to you? Or are you more

01:57:05.380 --> 01:57:07.439
likely that that level of technology is one that

01:57:07.439 --> 01:57:09.140
allows people to come from completely different

01:57:09.140 --> 01:57:11.699
planes of existence, different dimensions, different

01:57:11.699 --> 01:57:14.699
types of universes we don't even begin to understand?

01:57:15.039 --> 01:57:17.640
If we can prove that we can manipulate space

01:57:17.640 --> 01:57:20.180
-time like that, to me, that's an indicator that

01:57:20.180 --> 01:57:22.920
you can do even more than that. Again, I'm not

01:57:22.920 --> 01:57:25.539
saying it's impossible. I'm putting my chips

01:57:25.539 --> 01:57:28.180
on the table as the things that I've seen, I'm

01:57:28.180 --> 01:57:30.779
more likely to believe that it is time travelers,

01:57:31.000 --> 01:57:33.600
unknown residents of Earth, people from another

01:57:33.600 --> 01:57:36.079
dimension, energy signals from another dimension

01:57:36.079 --> 01:57:38.840
bleed through of our own past, present and future.

01:57:39.300 --> 01:57:42.520
I put all those at a higher likelihood than they

01:57:42.520 --> 01:57:44.619
came from Andromeda. And now they're flying around

01:57:44.619 --> 01:57:47.359
our military bases. Did you see that guy representative

01:57:47.359 --> 01:57:50.520
was his name, Tim Burchett? Is that his name?

01:57:50.539 --> 01:57:53.960
Who was talking about there's five specific areas

01:57:53.960 --> 01:57:55.979
where these things seem to be emanating from

01:57:55.979 --> 01:58:01.210
the ocean. I'm generally familiar. I don't remember

01:58:01.210 --> 01:58:03.109
what those areas are. It was a weird conversation.

01:58:03.789 --> 01:58:05.569
One of them is very near me. It's the Channel

01:58:05.569 --> 01:58:08.689
Islands corridor. Right. I tracked down this

01:58:08.689 --> 01:58:11.449
book that's out of print now called The Unidentified

01:58:11.449 --> 01:58:17.529
UFOs and USOs, Unidentified Submersible Objects

01:58:17.529 --> 01:58:19.989
of the Santa Catalina Channel. This guy went

01:58:19.989 --> 01:58:22.449
around. How is that common? Well, in this one

01:58:22.449 --> 01:58:25.289
area, tons of bizarre activity. This guy went

01:58:25.289 --> 01:58:27.899
around. And he interviewed everybody who had

01:58:27.899 --> 01:58:29.439
a weird story. And he just basically compiled

01:58:29.439 --> 01:58:32.119
them. He said, what do you see? Describe it in

01:58:32.119 --> 01:58:34.659
detail. And he went back like these are like

01:58:34.659 --> 01:58:36.960
fishermen had stories from the 80s. And he talked

01:58:36.960 --> 01:58:40.260
to naval aviators and he talked to, you know,

01:58:40.260 --> 01:58:43.300
local yachtsmen. And he talked to all these people.

01:58:43.739 --> 01:58:46.260
And he points out in his prologue, these are

01:58:46.260 --> 01:58:48.340
all just the stories I've collected. I have not

01:58:48.340 --> 01:58:50.279
edited these stories. I have not modified these

01:58:50.279 --> 01:58:52.520
stories. And the people have verified that they

01:58:52.520 --> 01:58:55.140
are correct. And they are all on the record.

01:58:55.220 --> 01:58:56.739
This is their name. He didn't include anybody

01:58:56.739 --> 01:58:58.800
who was anonymous because his point was if it's

01:58:58.800 --> 01:59:00.600
anonymous, you could just claim I made it up.

01:59:00.600 --> 01:59:02.279
It has to be a real person who stands behind

01:59:02.279 --> 01:59:04.720
it. And he said, you'll notice that across about

01:59:04.720 --> 01:59:07.310
50 years of stories I've collected. that there's

01:59:07.310 --> 01:59:09.630
extraordinary commonality between these stories.

01:59:09.729 --> 01:59:11.909
People who have never met, have no reason to

01:59:11.909 --> 01:59:14.010
work together, have no reason to have a common

01:59:14.010 --> 01:59:17.229
story, and yet they all observe very similar

01:59:17.229 --> 01:59:22.130
things. And when you see a one -off, it's hard

01:59:22.130 --> 01:59:23.909
to draw a conclusion. When you see a pattern,

01:59:24.069 --> 01:59:25.250
it becomes a lot more interesting. What are they

01:59:25.250 --> 01:59:28.020
observing specifically? So specifically... The

01:59:28.020 --> 01:59:30.760
Santa Catalina Channel, so you have basically

01:59:30.760 --> 01:59:33.239
Catalina Island off the coast of California,

01:59:33.560 --> 01:59:35.739
and you have a few more channel islands that

01:59:35.739 --> 01:59:39.380
are stretched out on either end of it. The things

01:59:39.380 --> 01:59:41.659
that they were seeing were vehicles that were

01:59:41.659 --> 01:59:45.619
in the sky and then going into the water at high

01:59:45.619 --> 01:59:49.100
speed and appearing to, like not hitting them

01:59:49.100 --> 01:59:51.100
and slamming and exploding like you'd expect,

01:59:51.279 --> 01:59:54.779
but instead still a huge flash, but just seamlessly

01:59:54.779 --> 01:59:58.310
transitioning into the water. Lots of noise,

01:59:58.489 --> 02:00:01.029
lots of splash, but not like destroying themselves.

02:00:01.250 --> 02:00:03.949
And then similarly, objects coming out of the

02:00:03.949 --> 02:00:06.430
water in the same way. And so they all describe

02:00:06.430 --> 02:00:10.529
these very, very steep approach paths. So like

02:00:10.529 --> 02:00:12.550
not coming in like an aircraft landing on the

02:00:12.550 --> 02:00:14.710
water, but almost like coming out of the sky

02:00:14.710 --> 02:00:17.510
at these very steep angles and then just smashing

02:00:17.510 --> 02:00:19.130
into the water in a way you would expect would

02:00:19.130 --> 02:00:22.319
destroy anything. But then instead, the vehicles

02:00:22.319 --> 02:00:24.340
are apparently fine and the water just parts

02:00:24.340 --> 02:00:27.479
around them as they rocket in. Really, really

02:00:27.479 --> 02:00:29.560
bizarre stuff. And it makes you wonder, could

02:00:29.560 --> 02:00:33.020
that be related? The same technology or process

02:00:33.020 --> 02:00:35.899
that allows the air. You see these systems, they're

02:00:35.899 --> 02:00:38.199
not creating sonic booms. Right. You don't see

02:00:38.199 --> 02:00:40.680
shockwaves coming off of them. And they're not

02:00:40.680 --> 02:00:42.539
heated by the movement through the air. They're

02:00:42.539 --> 02:00:44.380
not really, really hot. I mean, you've heard

02:00:44.380 --> 02:00:46.220
the stories about the SR -71. I mean, it would

02:00:46.220 --> 02:00:49.100
get literally red hot on its leading edges, glowing

02:00:49.100 --> 02:00:54.220
titanium. But these things are cold. And so is

02:00:54.220 --> 02:00:57.140
there some technology that can displace air around

02:00:57.140 --> 02:01:00.260
you that can also displace water around you is

02:01:00.260 --> 02:01:03.100
kind of the interesting theory there. But yeah,

02:01:03.140 --> 02:01:05.579
that particular I've dug into because it's only

02:01:05.579 --> 02:01:08.279
about 20 miles away from my house. The weird

02:01:08.279 --> 02:01:11.489
one is the breakaway civilization thing. Yes.

02:01:11.510 --> 02:01:13.090
That's the weird one. Because that's the most

02:01:13.090 --> 02:01:15.529
ridiculous until you start thinking about it.

02:01:15.729 --> 02:01:17.949
And then you start looking back at past civilizations

02:01:17.949 --> 02:01:20.829
like ancient Egypt and some of the monolithic

02:01:20.829 --> 02:01:22.810
construction around the world. You've read Chariots

02:01:22.810 --> 02:01:25.069
of the Gods? Mm -hmm. I talked to Von Daniken

02:01:25.069 --> 02:01:27.270
once. Oh, really? He went to Peter Thiel's house.

02:01:27.430 --> 02:01:29.710
And Peter Thiel and Eric Weinstein brought me

02:01:29.710 --> 02:01:31.449
over for lunch. Oh, that must have been so cool.

02:01:31.689 --> 02:01:33.750
It was so cool to just question him about stuff.

02:01:34.250 --> 02:01:38.409
I read Chariots of the Gods when I was, I don't

02:01:38.409 --> 02:01:39.670
know, probably like seven or eight. It was a

02:01:39.670 --> 02:01:41.850
fun movie, too. Oh, I haven't seen the movie.

02:01:41.930 --> 02:01:43.850
I didn't even know. It's an old ass movie. It's

02:01:43.850 --> 02:01:45.649
an old ass book. It was in the movie theaters.

02:01:45.829 --> 02:01:48.430
So the interesting thing about it is like I've

02:01:48.430 --> 02:01:50.010
dug into a lot of that as I've gotten older.

02:01:50.130 --> 02:01:51.930
And yes, there are things in there where like

02:01:51.930 --> 02:01:54.689
we've now learned that they weren't true. But

02:01:54.689 --> 02:01:57.390
some of it holds up. There's still really bizarre

02:01:57.390 --> 02:02:00.170
stuff that was happening in ancient civilizations.

02:02:00.310 --> 02:02:03.149
There's common between civilizations. And it

02:02:03.149 --> 02:02:05.859
doesn't really make sense. It doesn't really

02:02:05.859 --> 02:02:07.859
make sense when you think about it conventionally.

02:02:07.899 --> 02:02:11.760
Well, Ben Van Kirkwick, who runs Uncharted X,

02:02:11.960 --> 02:02:15.260
he was on the podcast recently and he was describing

02:02:15.260 --> 02:02:18.880
how there's specific hieroglyphs that indicate

02:02:18.880 --> 02:02:22.760
some sort of a star portal. Yep. That that's

02:02:22.760 --> 02:02:24.979
what the hieroglyphs are saying. Like this is

02:02:24.979 --> 02:02:28.319
a star gate and it shows stars. It shows this

02:02:28.319 --> 02:02:32.710
portal and gate. And this is it's. written multiple

02:02:32.710 --> 02:02:34.789
times. And they're trying to figure out, well,

02:02:34.810 --> 02:02:36.569
what is this trying to say? Like, what is this?

02:02:36.750 --> 02:02:39.590
What do you think about the theory that there's

02:02:39.590 --> 02:02:41.750
other sentient, that the other sentient species

02:02:41.750 --> 02:02:45.270
of Earth might have better lore on this than

02:02:45.270 --> 02:02:48.289
us? Have you heard of this theory? No. I don't

02:02:48.289 --> 02:02:50.840
want to, so. This is going to make me sound a

02:02:50.840 --> 02:02:55.340
little bit like a nutter, but we're pretty deep

02:02:55.340 --> 02:02:57.560
down the rabbit hole. Yeah, we're on nutter territory

02:02:57.560 --> 02:03:00.500
right now. So people have oral traditions that

02:03:00.500 --> 02:03:04.189
have passed down pretty well. We've also observed

02:03:04.189 --> 02:03:07.329
that stories can pass down in other sentient

02:03:07.329 --> 02:03:10.789
species like whales, like dolphins. They have

02:03:10.789 --> 02:03:12.829
these whale calls that have been constant for

02:03:12.829 --> 02:03:15.270
a long time. They communicate with each other.

02:03:15.689 --> 02:03:17.350
One of the theories, and by the way, this was

02:03:17.350 --> 02:03:19.729
explored in like some of the old Star Trek movies.

02:03:19.850 --> 02:03:22.489
They explored this idea that the whales actually

02:03:22.489 --> 02:03:25.390
had better and more stable oral history than

02:03:25.390 --> 02:03:29.310
humanity. And it's not that crazy of an idea.

02:03:30.270 --> 02:03:34.659
And so you wonder, for example, if we could understand

02:03:34.659 --> 02:03:37.079
them, what would they have to say about any of

02:03:37.079 --> 02:03:39.000
this stuff? Maybe they're not smart enough to

02:03:39.000 --> 02:03:42.380
have anything to say, but do they have anything

02:03:42.380 --> 02:03:45.340
to say about, it may not be obvious, it may not

02:03:45.340 --> 02:03:47.340
be, we know about star people who are going through

02:03:47.340 --> 02:03:49.500
stargates, but for example, what if there's oral

02:03:49.500 --> 02:03:53.579
tradition or even genetic programming around,

02:03:53.760 --> 02:03:57.079
oh, we never go to this area, never go to this

02:03:57.079 --> 02:04:00.039
place, or never eat the food from this place.

02:04:00.700 --> 02:04:04.020
Could there be interesting leads that are buried

02:04:04.020 --> 02:04:07.100
in cultures that are not human? We were talking

02:04:07.100 --> 02:04:09.460
about that before, that you're working on interspecies

02:04:09.460 --> 02:04:12.739
communication. That's right. So this hasn't actually

02:04:12.739 --> 02:04:14.359
officially launched yet. Hopefully they won't

02:04:14.359 --> 02:04:16.420
mind me talking about it. Are you familiar with

02:04:16.420 --> 02:04:18.859
the XPRIZE Foundation? Yes, we were just talking

02:04:18.859 --> 02:04:21.020
about it. So if people aren't familiar, XPRIZE

02:04:21.020 --> 02:04:23.210
is basically this group that makes these... big,

02:04:23.210 --> 02:04:26.470
significant monetary prizes for teams to compete

02:04:26.470 --> 02:04:28.510
against each other to do things that seem crazy.

02:04:28.689 --> 02:04:32.050
So, like, there was an X Prize for going to space

02:04:32.050 --> 02:04:35.689
on a reusable rocket. John Carmack was competing

02:04:35.689 --> 02:04:39.069
for that. Did you know that? Yes, I did. So,

02:04:39.210 --> 02:04:42.970
like, you inspired him. They're doing some Cancer

02:04:42.970 --> 02:04:45.449
X Prizes. There's one that's going on right now

02:04:45.449 --> 02:04:48.869
called the Wildfire X Prize, which is basically...

02:04:49.199 --> 02:04:51.220
challenging companies to build a system that

02:04:51.220 --> 02:04:54.659
can detect wildfires anywhere on the planet in

02:04:54.659 --> 02:04:57.159
less than a minute from space and then deploy

02:04:57.159 --> 02:04:59.979
autonomous drones to extinguish them before they

02:04:59.979 --> 02:05:02.239
get large enough that they turn into a real wildfire.

02:05:02.300 --> 02:05:04.680
Instead of responding to fires once they're too

02:05:04.680 --> 02:05:07.399
big to control, you're able to stop them in their

02:05:07.399 --> 02:05:10.600
tracks. I mean, just like the Palisades fire

02:05:10.600 --> 02:05:13.840
created $20 billion in damage. It's actually

02:05:13.840 --> 02:05:16.180
very cheap to do this relative to the damage

02:05:16.180 --> 02:05:19.220
that wildfires cause. Anyway, the XPRIZE guys

02:05:19.220 --> 02:05:24.100
came to me a while back, and we were jamming

02:05:24.100 --> 02:05:29.539
on a few ideas for their next XPRIZE. And hopefully

02:05:29.539 --> 02:05:31.439
they don't mind me saying this, but initially

02:05:31.439 --> 02:05:34.000
I said you guys should do an Uplift XPRIZE. Have

02:05:34.000 --> 02:05:35.699
you seen Uplift, the science fiction concept?

02:05:35.979 --> 02:05:38.239
No. It's fallen out of favor. It was really popular

02:05:38.239 --> 02:05:42.079
for a while. There was an Uplift trilogy written

02:05:42.079 --> 02:05:45.100
by, I can't remember the guy's name, but he wrote

02:05:45.100 --> 02:05:47.840
a whole book about non -human consciousnesses.

02:05:47.859 --> 02:05:51.699
In his book, there's plasma consciousnesses in

02:05:51.699 --> 02:05:53.739
the sun. You've probably heard these crazy ideas

02:05:53.739 --> 02:05:56.600
of intelligent beings that live in the sun. But

02:05:56.600 --> 02:05:59.539
one of it, the main thrust of Uplift is taking

02:05:59.539 --> 02:06:03.619
species that are not sentient and lifting them

02:06:03.619 --> 02:06:06.979
up to the level of sentience and beyond. So can

02:06:06.979 --> 02:06:11.000
you take a dog? and teach it to talk by genetically

02:06:11.000 --> 02:06:13.800
modifying it to make it smarter? Can you take

02:06:13.800 --> 02:06:16.859
whales and pass them up? And by the way, the

02:06:16.859 --> 02:06:18.819
Uplift trilogy, they also explored this idea,

02:06:18.899 --> 02:06:21.539
like Star Trek, of the whales having an oral

02:06:21.539 --> 02:06:23.880
tradition that was more stable than humanity's

02:06:23.880 --> 02:06:26.659
and actually having a lot of information that

02:06:26.659 --> 02:06:29.619
was concealed from man until they uplifted those

02:06:29.619 --> 02:06:31.500
species. And I've always thought that was really

02:06:31.500 --> 02:06:33.239
interesting. And so I went to the XPRIZE and

02:06:33.239 --> 02:06:35.119
said, I want you guys to do an Uplift XPRIZE.

02:06:35.380 --> 02:06:38.909
First person. to modify an animal to be smarter

02:06:38.909 --> 02:06:42.789
than a person. And they actually said, that's

02:06:42.789 --> 02:06:47.750
too crazy. That's XPRIZE is trying to push the

02:06:47.750 --> 02:06:50.930
future, but for a variety of, honestly, quite

02:06:50.930 --> 02:06:52.770
good reasons. They said, this is not quite our

02:06:52.770 --> 02:06:56.989
jam. But one we are working towards is an interspecies

02:06:56.989 --> 02:07:00.930
communication XPRIZE. And it's a prize to, I

02:07:00.930 --> 02:07:04.029
think that with... modern AI advances, this is

02:07:04.029 --> 02:07:06.310
going to be a lot more possible to gather large

02:07:06.310 --> 02:07:08.609
amounts of data, reason about it, and figure

02:07:08.609 --> 02:07:10.850
out the vocabulary and grammar of these species.

02:07:11.819 --> 02:07:14.979
The idea is it's the first team that can meet

02:07:14.979 --> 02:07:17.800
species where they are and communicate with them

02:07:17.800 --> 02:07:20.140
in a repeatable, verifiable way. This isn't teaching

02:07:20.140 --> 02:07:24.960
a dog to say yes when you say go. Do you want

02:07:24.960 --> 02:07:27.960
to eat? Exactly. No, this is bidirectional communication,

02:07:28.479 --> 02:07:33.979
objective, verifiable, deterministic, predictable.

02:07:35.710 --> 02:07:37.930
It's a really hard one, but I think a good XPRIZE

02:07:37.930 --> 02:07:39.510
should be. You shouldn't be picking things that

02:07:39.510 --> 02:07:41.829
are easy. You're picking things that seem like

02:07:41.829 --> 02:07:44.029
they're just out of reach and you just need to

02:07:44.029 --> 02:07:45.890
stretch for it. But there's been talk of doing

02:07:45.890 --> 02:07:46.729
that with dolphins. And if we do that, I'm going

02:07:46.729 --> 02:07:49.130
to be asking the whales. Whales and dolphins,

02:07:49.329 --> 02:07:50.930
they have a language, but we don't know what

02:07:50.930 --> 02:07:53.149
it is. That's right. So the idea is the using

02:07:53.149 --> 02:07:56.649
of AI. If you get to super general intelligence

02:07:56.649 --> 02:08:00.430
and AI can run all the patterns through some

02:08:00.430 --> 02:08:03.939
sort of... program and determine what is being

02:08:03.939 --> 02:08:08.060
expressed. We've learned some things. We've learned

02:08:08.060 --> 02:08:12.479
how a lot of citations can call names and very,

02:08:12.539 --> 02:08:15.439
very unique IDs. They have dialects. Yep, they

02:08:15.439 --> 02:08:19.140
do. But we are so far away from cracking the

02:08:19.140 --> 02:08:23.069
code. Isn't it crazy that we can crack Basically

02:08:23.069 --> 02:08:26.569
any cipher, any crypto code. We can translate

02:08:26.569 --> 02:08:29.210
languages basically from scratch if we get a

02:08:29.210 --> 02:08:34.289
few words. Rosetta Stone. Exactly. And we have

02:08:34.289 --> 02:08:36.550
no idea how it works. And I don't mean like we

02:08:36.550 --> 02:08:38.029
don't know the words, but we know there are words.

02:08:38.130 --> 02:08:39.729
It's like there's weird things where they're

02:08:39.729 --> 02:08:42.119
like. communicating via ultrasound with each

02:08:42.119 --> 02:08:44.579
other. And we think that like one is emitting

02:08:44.579 --> 02:08:47.359
and another is receiving and emitting. And then

02:08:47.359 --> 02:08:49.460
maybe there's information in the phase difference

02:08:49.460 --> 02:08:51.819
between those two, right? Like they might be

02:08:51.819 --> 02:08:54.720
in, this is where the theory of, of acoustic

02:08:54.720 --> 02:08:57.220
holograms as a primary means of cetacean community

02:08:57.220 --> 02:08:59.800
came from. I don't believe in that anymore. I

02:08:59.800 --> 02:09:03.289
think that wasn't quite right, but like. differences

02:09:03.289 --> 02:09:06.630
in phase between simultaneous transmit and receive

02:09:06.630 --> 02:09:08.909
ultrasonic communication, it seems to be that's

02:09:08.909 --> 02:09:10.689
part of it. So you can't just like listen for

02:09:10.689 --> 02:09:12.869
words. You're actually looking for differences

02:09:12.869 --> 02:09:14.689
in how these waves are interacting. And those

02:09:14.689 --> 02:09:17.489
are distance dependent, direction dependent.

02:09:18.050 --> 02:09:20.489
We've got a lot of work cut out for us to understand

02:09:20.489 --> 02:09:24.810
animals. That is so wild. You're familiar with

02:09:24.810 --> 02:09:28.250
Alex, the African gray parrot? No. Oh, you've

02:09:28.250 --> 02:09:30.189
got to look into this. I mean, maybe you could

02:09:30.189 --> 02:09:32.220
even get one of... his trainers on the show.

02:09:32.340 --> 02:09:35.760
So Alex, the African gray parrots are probably

02:09:35.760 --> 02:09:37.720
the smartest bird. Definitely one of the smartest

02:09:37.720 --> 02:09:40.119
animals. Right up there with crows or ravens?

02:09:40.220 --> 02:09:43.060
Smarter. They're very, very smart. They can talk.

02:09:43.220 --> 02:09:47.199
They can reason. Alex the parrot was, so Alex

02:09:47.199 --> 02:09:50.279
the parrot was a uniquely smart African gray

02:09:50.279 --> 02:09:52.800
parrot. By the way, African greys are usually

02:09:52.800 --> 02:09:55.420
not kept in captivity just because they're such

02:09:55.420 --> 02:09:58.420
a handful. There we go. There's Alex. They're

02:09:58.420 --> 02:10:00.220
a handful because they're so intelligent? It's

02:10:00.220 --> 02:10:02.420
like dogs that need to be exercised. They need

02:10:02.420 --> 02:10:04.739
to be intellectually stimulated. And most people

02:10:04.739 --> 02:10:07.060
just don't have the time to keep an African grey

02:10:07.060 --> 02:10:10.779
properly stimulated. So they get depressed. They

02:10:10.779 --> 02:10:13.619
self -harm. They're not recommended as a beginner

02:10:13.619 --> 02:10:16.159
parrot by any means. Now, Alex was interesting.

02:10:16.539 --> 02:10:20.819
Because he had a vocabulary, he understood grammar,

02:10:21.020 --> 02:10:24.039
and he is one of the only, I think the only animal

02:10:24.039 --> 02:10:28.199
who asked an existential question and he actually

02:10:28.199 --> 02:10:30.300
did it right before he died. If I remember correctly,

02:10:30.520 --> 02:10:32.340
like he wasn't just saying, give me food. He

02:10:32.340 --> 02:10:34.760
could say like, tomorrow I want this food. He

02:10:34.760 --> 02:10:37.720
could be, but the existential question he asked

02:10:37.720 --> 02:10:41.220
was, what's happening? And where am I going?

02:10:41.600 --> 02:10:44.060
Which is, and he had never asked those questions

02:10:44.060 --> 02:10:46.880
before. They were brand new formulated questions

02:10:46.880 --> 02:10:49.319
that he asked very shortly before he passed.

02:10:49.939 --> 02:10:52.779
And so there's a lot of, now here's the other

02:10:52.779 --> 02:10:55.840
cool part. He's got a bird brain. He has a tiny

02:10:55.840 --> 02:10:58.600
little brain and yet it has all that capacity.

02:10:58.720 --> 02:11:00.439
You've probably heard of people who have lost

02:11:00.439 --> 02:11:02.340
huge chunks of their brain and they reprogram

02:11:02.340 --> 02:11:05.789
and they seem to get by. parrots like Alex suggest

02:11:05.789 --> 02:11:09.189
that you can get by with very little brain if

02:11:09.189 --> 02:11:11.430
it's oriented correctly. So imagine if I took

02:11:11.430 --> 02:11:14.930
a species like an African gray and I modified

02:11:14.930 --> 02:11:18.090
certain elements of genetic code to cause its

02:11:18.090 --> 02:11:20.989
brain to be somewhat larger, somewhat more glucose

02:11:20.989 --> 02:11:23.170
consuming. So it has more energy and then also

02:11:23.170 --> 02:11:24.930
to have more folds. They're very smooth brain.

02:11:25.029 --> 02:11:27.090
What if I could have, we know that folded brain

02:11:27.090 --> 02:11:29.149
tissue and the high density that it creates on

02:11:29.149 --> 02:11:32.090
the neuronal surface is very good for intelligence.

02:11:32.800 --> 02:11:35.279
Could you make an African gray that is able to

02:11:35.279 --> 02:11:38.300
have a normal human level conversation? I think

02:11:38.300 --> 02:11:42.119
it's actually very close to that. Wow. So this

02:11:42.119 --> 02:11:45.560
is one of those. How many? Come on. Can you tell

02:11:45.560 --> 02:11:51.119
me how many? Two. Very good. What? Two. We keep

02:11:51.119 --> 02:11:54.300
going. Can you tell me what's different? What's

02:11:54.300 --> 02:11:56.979
different? Color. Come on. What number is gray?

02:12:00.159 --> 02:12:02.310
Don't want to tell them? Well, tell me, what

02:12:02.310 --> 02:12:08.470
number is gray? What number is gray? Very good.

02:12:08.710 --> 02:12:12.189
Holy shit, man. Right. And I mean, you're looking

02:12:12.189 --> 02:12:15.590
at intelligence that's on par by all of the traditional

02:12:15.590 --> 02:12:19.000
metrics with a human toddler. But with radically

02:12:19.000 --> 02:12:22.140
less brain tissue. But also radically less body

02:12:22.140 --> 02:12:25.600
to control. That's true. And also a lot of semi

02:12:25.600 --> 02:12:28.340
-autonomy. You know how some animals have more

02:12:28.340 --> 02:12:31.079
of their nervous system distributed? Octopuses

02:12:31.079 --> 02:12:33.960
have autonomy in their muscles. It's actually

02:12:33.960 --> 02:12:36.840
similar for a lot of animals. And so one of the

02:12:36.840 --> 02:12:39.779
reasons I've always found AI so interesting is

02:12:39.779 --> 02:12:42.340
not just what we can do with AI, but learning

02:12:42.340 --> 02:12:46.090
how... Like building a thinking system from scratch,

02:12:46.270 --> 02:12:48.590
I'm thinking will help us understand how other

02:12:48.590 --> 02:12:51.550
systems think. Like there's never been an economic

02:12:51.550 --> 02:12:55.710
motive to really dig into how to understand how

02:12:55.710 --> 02:12:59.430
the brain fundamentally works. I know there's

02:12:59.430 --> 02:13:00.970
people who are listening who probably think that's

02:13:00.970 --> 02:13:02.149
crazy. They say, Palmer, people want to cure

02:13:02.149 --> 02:13:03.770
brain cancer. They want to help with Alzheimer's.

02:13:03.829 --> 02:13:05.930
There's a difference between preserving brain

02:13:05.930 --> 02:13:08.979
function. and truly understanding how the brain

02:13:08.979 --> 02:13:10.880
works. And yes, there's research labs here and

02:13:10.880 --> 02:13:12.859
there, but Google's never been funding them to

02:13:12.859 --> 02:13:15.579
the tune of tens of billions, right? Meta's never

02:13:15.579 --> 02:13:17.159
been funding them to the tune of hundreds of

02:13:17.159 --> 02:13:19.840
billions. AI is the first time that humanity

02:13:19.840 --> 02:13:23.100
has ever dedicated a huge amount of resources

02:13:23.100 --> 02:13:27.460
to understanding what thought is, how to make

02:13:27.460 --> 02:13:29.720
it synthetically, and how to make it better.

02:13:29.840 --> 02:13:31.180
And we're going to make a lot of mistakes along

02:13:31.180 --> 02:13:33.479
the way, but I think... I think that understanding

02:13:33.479 --> 02:13:36.239
how to make synthetic brains via AI is going

02:13:36.239 --> 02:13:39.720
to teach us how to make parrots like Alex a lot

02:13:39.720 --> 02:13:42.060
smarter, too. Well, when you start talking about

02:13:42.060 --> 02:13:44.720
stuff like this and you start talking about genetically

02:13:44.720 --> 02:13:47.000
engineering an animal to be as intelligent or

02:13:47.000 --> 02:13:49.920
more intelligent than a human, it brings me to

02:13:49.920 --> 02:13:53.479
the weirder theory about human evolution. Sure.

02:13:53.520 --> 02:13:55.119
That we're a product of accelerated evolution

02:13:55.119 --> 02:13:58.699
and that some superior intelligence would do

02:13:58.699 --> 02:14:01.560
exactly what you're doing. That's my favorite

02:14:01.560 --> 02:14:06.340
part about Uplift is that if you can prove that

02:14:06.340 --> 02:14:10.500
it works, you open up a whole pot, a whole avenue

02:14:10.500 --> 02:14:13.119
of theories that have been treated as crazy.

02:14:13.159 --> 02:14:15.279
Like right now, if you like what you just said

02:14:15.279 --> 02:14:19.319
about, you know, augmented evolution of humans.

02:14:19.920 --> 02:14:23.020
It's a crazy person thing. Right. Right. But

02:14:23.020 --> 02:14:25.819
if we are literally sitting there talking to

02:14:25.819 --> 02:14:29.460
our dogs. And they're like, like, isn't it going

02:14:29.460 --> 02:14:31.039
to be like who could who could think that's a

02:14:31.039 --> 02:14:33.279
crazy theory to say, well, I mean, we did it.

02:14:33.319 --> 02:14:35.579
The moment that we had technology that was capable,

02:14:35.760 --> 02:14:39.680
we did it. Wouldn't probably any species do that?

02:14:39.779 --> 02:14:41.560
Like, doesn't that suggest that when you get

02:14:41.560 --> 02:14:43.640
smart enough, you want to make things somewhat

02:14:43.640 --> 02:14:45.739
in your own image? It gets back to Skynet earlier.

02:14:46.060 --> 02:14:49.420
Like if we make animals more into our own image,

02:14:49.560 --> 02:14:52.380
is it really crazy to think that we are the result

02:14:52.380 --> 02:14:54.060
of something like that? And actually, so I'm

02:14:54.060 --> 02:14:58.140
a religious person. I'm a Christian. And I feel

02:14:58.140 --> 02:15:02.039
like what you see where God was created or man

02:15:02.039 --> 02:15:04.960
was created in God's image, I feel like it's

02:15:04.960 --> 02:15:07.180
reflected in our desire to create things in our

02:15:07.180 --> 02:15:10.760
own image. And so I think there's a certain beautiful

02:15:10.760 --> 02:15:16.359
symmetry there. If we're doing it, it's actually

02:15:16.359 --> 02:15:18.260
easier for people to believe, I think, that it

02:15:18.260 --> 02:15:20.279
happened to us. It's easier for people to believe

02:15:20.279 --> 02:15:22.960
that we have a creator who wanted to create something

02:15:22.960 --> 02:15:25.439
in his own image. When we are doing the same.

02:15:25.579 --> 02:15:29.260
Well, also just the sentiment that you were discussing

02:15:29.260 --> 02:15:32.460
of taking an animal and making it more intelligent.

02:15:32.960 --> 02:15:37.380
If we found a planet, if let's say we get to,

02:15:37.380 --> 02:15:39.199
you know, a couple thousand years of technological

02:15:39.199 --> 02:15:41.539
evolution past where we're at now, we can travel

02:15:41.539 --> 02:15:44.020
to other galaxies and we find primates. Yeah.

02:15:44.060 --> 02:15:46.680
And we're like, well, they're on the way. They're

02:15:46.680 --> 02:15:48.760
on the way, but they need like 300 million years

02:15:48.760 --> 02:15:50.659
before they get to where we are. We wouldn't

02:15:50.659 --> 02:15:53.479
want to wait. Why would we wait? Maybe that's

02:15:53.479 --> 02:15:55.640
just a seeding process. Maybe that's something

02:15:55.640 --> 02:15:57.579
that happens all throughout the universe where

02:15:57.579 --> 02:16:01.720
these, you know, intelligence farmers just drop

02:16:01.720 --> 02:16:05.189
seeds. in various areas, just take animals, manipulate

02:16:05.189 --> 02:16:07.210
them, turn them into something that's superior

02:16:07.210 --> 02:16:09.989
and that has a lust for innovation, which is

02:16:09.989 --> 02:16:12.069
one of the weirder things about us. We were talking

02:16:12.069 --> 02:16:13.689
about this last night at the mothership. We were

02:16:13.689 --> 02:16:15.149
on the green room. We were talking about one

02:16:15.149 --> 02:16:17.210
thing that human beings share in common with

02:16:17.210 --> 02:16:20.050
everything we do. Everyone's trying to make the

02:16:20.050 --> 02:16:22.970
best version of everything and better versions,

02:16:23.170 --> 02:16:25.449
whether it's sports. The athletes of today are

02:16:25.449 --> 02:16:27.569
better than the athletes of 20 years ago, whether

02:16:27.569 --> 02:16:30.189
it's computers, whether it's televisions, any

02:16:30.189 --> 02:16:33.379
kind of technology, music. Everything wants to

02:16:33.379 --> 02:16:35.200
be better than anything before. So we're constantly

02:16:35.200 --> 02:16:38.120
trying to make better stuff. I would even go

02:16:38.120 --> 02:16:39.979
beyond. I think it's not even better. It's that

02:16:39.979 --> 02:16:43.440
we seek novel things. Yes. And humans are programmed

02:16:43.440 --> 02:16:46.120
to seek novelty. And I think it's clearly been

02:16:46.120 --> 02:16:50.340
an evolutionarily advantageous trait. Societies

02:16:50.340 --> 02:16:53.860
that foster seeking of novel experiences build

02:16:53.860 --> 02:16:57.510
stronger cultures, stronger technologies. And

02:16:57.510 --> 02:16:59.489
then, by the way, the groups that don't seek

02:16:59.489 --> 02:17:02.290
novelty end up becoming stagnant. Yes. You could

02:17:02.290 --> 02:17:03.909
even argue that many of the cultures that remain

02:17:03.909 --> 02:17:06.629
stagnant, like you kind of saw plateauing happen

02:17:06.629 --> 02:17:09.170
with, for example, a lot of Native American tribes.

02:17:09.450 --> 02:17:13.690
I think that it was a loss of drive for novelty.

02:17:13.989 --> 02:17:16.229
And that's not to say that there are lesser culture,

02:17:16.350 --> 02:17:19.170
but certainly they were not. focused on seeking

02:17:19.170 --> 02:17:21.690
novel experiences. What's really fascinating

02:17:21.690 --> 02:17:23.889
when you think about human beings in particular

02:17:23.889 --> 02:17:28.010
is that people that lived in those tribes did

02:17:28.010 --> 02:17:31.290
not want to civilize and that the people that

02:17:31.290 --> 02:17:34.290
were even captured by Indians, a lot of them

02:17:34.290 --> 02:17:37.870
wanted to stay because they found that to resonate

02:17:37.870 --> 02:17:40.809
more with being a human being because we had

02:17:40.809 --> 02:17:44.790
lived so many... thousands of years as hunter

02:17:44.790 --> 02:17:47.809
-gatherers, that that resonated with your being.

02:17:47.969 --> 02:17:50.549
It seemed more spiritually in tune with being

02:17:50.549 --> 02:17:53.250
a human being than living in a city and wearing

02:17:53.250 --> 02:17:56.629
a suit and getting food from a store. Anyone

02:17:56.629 --> 02:17:58.780
who's ever been on a camping trip. understands

02:17:58.780 --> 02:18:00.940
what you're talking about. But imagine that's

02:18:00.940 --> 02:18:02.659
your whole life. You can feel it. People were

02:18:02.659 --> 02:18:05.059
not meant to live in urban jungles. There's a

02:18:05.059 --> 02:18:08.399
great Vice piece back when Vice was really interesting.

02:18:08.680 --> 02:18:12.459
It's called Heinmo's Arctic Adventure. And it's

02:18:12.459 --> 02:18:15.879
this guy who, he lives north of the Arctic Circle

02:18:15.879 --> 02:18:20.069
or near the Arctic Circle. And he... Has a cabin

02:18:20.069 --> 02:18:22.950
up there, and he's grandfathered in, and he's

02:18:22.950 --> 02:18:25.010
been there forever. I think he started working

02:18:25.010 --> 02:18:27.989
there in the 1970s. This guy, he didn't even

02:18:27.989 --> 02:18:30.090
know about 9 -11 until way later. Someone showed

02:18:30.090 --> 02:18:33.270
him a picture of what happened. He has a television

02:18:33.270 --> 02:18:38.010
and VHS tapes and a log cabin powered by a generator,

02:18:38.209 --> 02:18:41.129
and all he does is hunt caribou and fish, and

02:18:41.129 --> 02:18:44.670
he's very intelligent. And so this nerdy reporter

02:18:44.670 --> 02:18:46.809
from fucking Williamsburg is hanging out with

02:18:46.809 --> 02:18:49.379
this guy or wherever he's from. And this guy's

02:18:49.379 --> 02:18:52.379
explaining how this resonates with being a human

02:18:52.379 --> 02:18:54.620
being. Yeah. Like this is a much more satisfying

02:18:54.620 --> 02:18:56.879
way of living. And I think that this is how people

02:18:56.879 --> 02:18:59.219
are supposed to live. That's so interesting.

02:18:59.319 --> 02:19:01.860
On the one hand, I agree. But then I love like

02:19:01.860 --> 02:19:04.500
I mean, I love that human the human race is doing

02:19:04.500 --> 02:19:06.079
a pretty good job of seeking novelty because

02:19:06.079 --> 02:19:08.940
that's if we all if we all I mean, maybe it's

02:19:08.940 --> 02:19:12.020
that maybe it's that, you know. Maybe hunting

02:19:12.020 --> 02:19:13.940
caribou is what makes us happy, but you still

02:19:13.940 --> 02:19:16.500
need the guy who wants to go for something else.

02:19:16.659 --> 02:19:18.620
But you also need a singer. You also need a guy

02:19:18.620 --> 02:19:22.139
who likes to be a carpenter. You need all types

02:19:22.139 --> 02:19:24.620
of different human beings and different personality

02:19:24.620 --> 02:19:27.159
traits and different interests to make this whole

02:19:27.159 --> 02:19:29.540
experiment of civilization work. What do you

02:19:29.540 --> 02:19:31.920
think about nostalgia? Because I've been thinking

02:19:31.920 --> 02:19:34.000
about this a lot for a variety of reasons, and

02:19:34.000 --> 02:19:35.360
it's kind of the opposite of what we're talking

02:19:35.360 --> 02:19:37.180
about. We're talking about novel experiences,

02:19:37.280 --> 02:19:40.889
new things. like driving towards the future.

02:19:42.110 --> 02:19:44.510
There's some people who I feel like look down

02:19:44.510 --> 02:19:46.350
on nostalgia, like, oh, you're obsessed with

02:19:46.350 --> 02:19:48.209
the past kind of needlessly. It's feel good.

02:19:48.290 --> 02:19:51.770
I feel like obsessing over the past, I think

02:19:51.770 --> 02:19:54.549
is healthy in a lot of ways. And I think it's

02:19:54.549 --> 02:19:56.370
even good to look at the past with rose tinted

02:19:56.370 --> 02:19:58.969
glasses because there's so much that we could

02:19:58.969 --> 02:20:01.270
learn from the past and should learn from the

02:20:01.270 --> 02:20:03.350
past. If we didn't look at things with rose tinted

02:20:03.350 --> 02:20:07.229
glasses, my theory is that. Imagine you look

02:20:07.229 --> 02:20:10.450
at the future possibilities and the past teachings

02:20:10.450 --> 02:20:14.190
identically with no favoring. It feels like you're

02:20:14.190 --> 02:20:16.329
naturally going to prefer the new thing that

02:20:16.329 --> 02:20:18.629
hasn't really shown all the downfalls yet. I

02:20:18.629 --> 02:20:21.809
guess I'm a big fan of nostalgia. I'm a big fan

02:20:21.809 --> 02:20:24.510
of looking at the parts of the past that worked

02:20:24.510 --> 02:20:26.590
and then lionizing those and reminding people

02:20:26.590 --> 02:20:29.290
why they worked. There's a lot of people who

02:20:29.290 --> 02:20:31.049
actually say this is fascist now. Have you heard

02:20:31.049 --> 02:20:34.069
of this? Nostalgia is fascist? Nostalgia is fascist.

02:20:34.069 --> 02:20:36.930
If you Google it, you look up nostalgia is fascist.

02:20:37.649 --> 02:20:40.950
This is like a cutting edge theory of the last

02:20:40.950 --> 02:20:43.879
year. They're saying, oh, all. this appeal to

02:20:43.879 --> 02:20:48.899
the 90s, it's pro -fascist because they're trying

02:20:48.899 --> 02:20:50.879
to make you believe that there was a better time,

02:20:50.940 --> 02:20:53.659
to believe that going backwards in society is

02:20:53.659 --> 02:20:57.500
a good thing, as if the 1990s were like some

02:20:57.500 --> 02:21:01.200
like hotbed of injustice and oppression. That's

02:21:01.200 --> 02:21:04.579
interesting. I think nostalgia is fun, but I

02:21:04.579 --> 02:21:07.139
don't spend a lot of time thinking about the

02:21:07.139 --> 02:21:11.059
past. I do when it comes to art. I do when it

02:21:11.059 --> 02:21:13.139
comes to music, and particularly the role of

02:21:13.139 --> 02:21:16.159
psychedelics in the influence of culture that

02:21:16.159 --> 02:21:18.620
happened in the 1960s, which I think is the greatest

02:21:18.620 --> 02:21:23.020
cultural shift of change in recorded history.

02:21:23.319 --> 02:21:26.420
The difference in the 50s and the 60s, just this

02:21:26.420 --> 02:21:29.559
radical change in the way people saw life and

02:21:29.559 --> 02:21:32.040
how many people were just exiting normal society.

02:21:33.049 --> 02:21:34.729
And then how they threw water on that with the

02:21:34.729 --> 02:21:37.750
passing of the Psychedelics Act in 1970. But

02:21:37.750 --> 02:21:39.629
I think that— Well, it seems like things are

02:21:39.629 --> 02:21:41.110
going in a different direction. So just so you

02:21:41.110 --> 02:21:42.670
know, I'm straight edge. I don't use any drugs.

02:21:43.569 --> 02:21:45.690
I didn't drink alcohol until very recently. I

02:21:45.690 --> 02:21:47.569
just had my first kid. He's a year old. And you

02:21:47.569 --> 02:21:49.270
started drinking as soon as you had a kid? Yeah.

02:21:49.389 --> 02:21:52.450
It was like my whole life. No drinking, no nicotine,

02:21:52.569 --> 02:21:54.510
no caffeine, no alcohol, no drugs. Yeah, I had

02:21:54.510 --> 02:21:56.629
a kid, and I decided it was time to start drinking.

02:21:57.069 --> 02:22:02.299
Why is that? Why is that? You have enough hard

02:22:02.299 --> 02:22:04.959
nights and hard days taking care of the kid,

02:22:05.059 --> 02:22:06.799
and you say, you know, I totally get it, man.

02:22:06.940 --> 02:22:09.620
I totally understand why everyone's having beers

02:22:09.620 --> 02:22:11.360
on the weekend. There's certainly a place for

02:22:11.360 --> 02:22:13.059
it. There's certainly a place for all those things.

02:22:13.059 --> 02:22:15.520
But I'm curious, why nostalgia in art? I'm not

02:22:15.520 --> 02:22:17.680
disagreeing, actually. I think I showed you earlier.

02:22:17.860 --> 02:22:21.600
Well, I'm completely fascinated with the 1960s

02:22:21.600 --> 02:22:25.479
in terms of I'm a huge fan of 1960s automobiles.

02:22:25.540 --> 02:22:29.489
What year were you born? 67. Okay, interesting.

02:22:30.370 --> 02:22:33.729
When I was a kid in high school, which is really,

02:22:33.829 --> 02:22:36.370
I was in high school in the 1980s. So I went

02:22:36.370 --> 02:22:39.069
to high school, first year was 81, which is not

02:22:39.069 --> 02:22:43.350
that far away from 1970, right? That's 11 years.

02:22:43.409 --> 02:22:47.329
Like an 11 -year -old car, if you had a 2016

02:22:47.329 --> 02:22:52.090
Toyota, it looks exactly like a 2025 Toyota.

02:22:52.370 --> 02:22:54.069
There's not much difference at all. You would

02:22:54.069 --> 02:22:56.729
have to be like a car nut to notice the difference.

02:22:58.139 --> 02:23:00.680
When I was a kid in 1981, if someone drove by

02:23:00.680 --> 02:23:03.579
in a 1970 Chevelle, everybody stopped and stared

02:23:03.579 --> 02:23:06.239
at it like, whoa. It was like that nostalgia

02:23:06.239 --> 02:23:08.280
was real because we recognized that something

02:23:08.280 --> 02:23:10.959
had happened to American manufacturing, particularly

02:23:10.959 --> 02:23:13.100
in automobile manufacturing, where they just

02:23:13.100 --> 02:23:16.760
lost the magic. They had magic in the 1960s.

02:23:16.760 --> 02:23:19.040
The Corvette, the Camaro. Well, cars were art.

02:23:19.219 --> 02:23:22.819
Yes. They were engineering. They were art. They

02:23:22.819 --> 02:23:26.059
were an expression of American culture. And it

02:23:26.059 --> 02:23:29.000
went away. It went away in the 1970s. They turned

02:23:29.000 --> 02:23:30.559
it into dog shit. Well, see, this is kind of

02:23:30.559 --> 02:23:31.920
what I'm talking about where I talk about the

02:23:31.920 --> 02:23:34.200
importance of nostalgia because you want to look

02:23:34.200 --> 02:23:36.159
back at the things that worked. And I think a

02:23:36.159 --> 02:23:38.020
lot of these companies, they would have you just

02:23:38.020 --> 02:23:40.459
forget that it ever was works of art that these

02:23:40.459 --> 02:23:43.260
cars could be this way. I think we need to learn

02:23:43.260 --> 02:23:45.959
from. Yeah, and not let them because like now

02:23:45.959 --> 02:23:49.760
cars are turning into like subscriber based appliances

02:23:49.760 --> 02:23:53.379
That's kind of gross I've heard that there's

02:23:53.379 --> 02:23:55.559
some cars that charge you money if you want to

02:23:55.559 --> 02:23:57.700
use Apple CarPlay. That's right Well, there's

02:23:57.700 --> 02:24:00.780
some that are also charging you to use all of

02:24:00.780 --> 02:24:04.219
your your heating and cooling functionality.

02:24:04.600 --> 02:24:06.600
There's ones they're adding like you can just

02:24:06.600 --> 02:24:08.639
fucking charge me more for your car and don't

02:24:08.639 --> 02:24:10.360
fuck me. Well, some of them you're paying more.

02:24:10.399 --> 02:24:12.399
It's paying more to unlock more horsepower. It's

02:24:12.399 --> 02:24:14.559
like, wait, you're making the car. It has the

02:24:14.559 --> 02:24:16.879
parts and you're not crazy. You know, a lot of

02:24:16.879 --> 02:24:20.000
these and then a lot of these. Business approaches

02:24:20.000 --> 02:24:21.680
are actually coming, I think, not from the car

02:24:21.680 --> 02:24:23.379
industry. They're stealing them from the tech

02:24:23.379 --> 02:24:25.700
and also the gaming industry. Like there was

02:24:25.700 --> 02:24:28.420
a time when these things – people were making

02:24:28.420 --> 02:24:30.559
video games. They would make a game. You'd buy

02:24:30.559 --> 02:24:32.979
it. You owned a video game and that was it. And

02:24:32.979 --> 02:24:35.260
they made the best game they could to sell you

02:24:35.260 --> 02:24:39.559
at a store. And these days they're making games

02:24:39.559 --> 02:24:42.440
and also a lot of apps into like the subscription

02:24:42.440 --> 02:24:45.020
experience. You have to keep – paying money they're

02:24:45.020 --> 02:24:47.059
making content that's just farmed to keep you

02:24:47.059 --> 02:24:49.500
hooked on the drip continuously you don't see

02:24:49.500 --> 02:24:52.920
these masterpieces the way that you used to and

02:24:52.920 --> 02:24:56.930
that's something I've been I've been super passionate

02:24:56.930 --> 02:24:59.690
about. It is gross that they do that. They just

02:24:59.690 --> 02:25:01.329
hook you in because they know you're hooked already.

02:25:01.690 --> 02:25:04.549
That's right. And so you want the new BMW or

02:25:04.549 --> 02:25:06.489
whatever the car is. And, you know, like, oh,

02:25:06.530 --> 02:25:08.889
I'll just pay the monthly. Who gives a fuck?

02:25:08.950 --> 02:25:10.709
Just one more subscription that comes out of

02:25:10.709 --> 02:25:13.569
my auto pay. Yeah. I feel like there needs to

02:25:13.569 --> 02:25:16.110
be a bit of a concerted pushback from people

02:25:16.110 --> 02:25:20.409
who remember before. We're gone. Yes. Like, like

02:25:20.409 --> 02:25:22.510
one of the things that's crazy to me, like, you

02:25:22.510 --> 02:25:24.729
know, like for you, it's cars. Cause you know,

02:25:24.729 --> 02:25:27.049
that's, that's, uh, you, you, you grew up, you

02:25:27.049 --> 02:25:28.989
grew up during that shift as well. The industry

02:25:28.989 --> 02:25:32.639
kind of, to your point, lost something. Um, But

02:25:32.639 --> 02:25:36.600
I grew up with the Nintendo Game Boy and a lot

02:25:36.600 --> 02:25:38.079
of these things where it was kind of like the

02:25:38.079 --> 02:25:40.139
early days of gaming where it was all these passionate

02:25:40.139 --> 02:25:42.700
people doing things because they really desperately

02:25:42.700 --> 02:25:44.620
wanted to. It was before all the bean counters

02:25:44.620 --> 02:25:46.739
got in. It was before all the regulators got

02:25:46.739 --> 02:25:48.500
in. It was before the people figured out how

02:25:48.500 --> 02:25:50.479
to turn it into this. You used to be able to

02:25:50.479 --> 02:25:52.559
make a game with a dozen people. And, of course,

02:25:52.600 --> 02:25:53.879
you could still do that today. I don't want to

02:25:53.879 --> 02:25:56.600
romanticize it too much. But you could make a

02:25:56.600 --> 02:25:59.520
best -selling game back then. With, you know,

02:25:59.540 --> 02:26:01.520
a dozen people. And these were all crazy people

02:26:01.520 --> 02:26:03.840
who could be making more money working in, let's

02:26:03.840 --> 02:26:06.100
say, like farming or industrial manufacturing.

02:26:06.299 --> 02:26:07.979
And instead they decided to be game programmers.

02:26:08.319 --> 02:26:10.579
Today you'll have game teams that are thousands

02:26:10.579 --> 02:26:12.760
of people and it's all, you know, it's become

02:26:12.760 --> 02:26:15.799
a very high paying, high prestige job. It's just

02:26:15.799 --> 02:26:17.860
a, it's a, it's a, it's a totally, it's a totally

02:26:17.860 --> 02:26:20.520
different universe. And it's also a giant business

02:26:20.520 --> 02:26:23.000
now, right? It's been proven that it's a huge

02:26:23.000 --> 02:26:25.600
moneymaker. It's purely, it's totally financialized

02:26:25.600 --> 02:26:27.979
now. Like it's, it's optimized by the bean counters.

02:26:28.360 --> 02:26:30.780
How are we going to make $5 billion in profit

02:26:30.780 --> 02:26:33.139
this year? And the video game industry is bigger

02:26:33.139 --> 02:26:35.479
than the movie industry, right? It is. And actually,

02:26:35.559 --> 02:26:37.540
and it has been even for a while. I think that

02:26:37.540 --> 02:26:39.340
happened like, I want to say it was like six

02:26:39.340 --> 02:26:43.299
or seven years ago that the games industry. I

02:26:43.299 --> 02:26:45.959
showed you before we came on, I have this knockoff

02:26:45.959 --> 02:26:49.459
of the Nintendo Game Boy that I made. I remember

02:26:49.459 --> 02:26:50.899
I talked about that web forum. Oh, it's like

02:26:50.899 --> 02:26:52.899
a superior Game Boy. Exactly. You could feel

02:26:52.899 --> 02:26:56.389
it just holding onto it. Actually, this one is

02:26:56.389 --> 02:26:58.389
even nicer than the ones that we normally sell.

02:26:58.450 --> 02:27:01.020
This is my personal. Andoril Edition 1. So this

02:27:01.020 --> 02:27:04.040
is made with the same alloys we use in our attack

02:27:04.040 --> 02:27:07.200
drones, and the coating on it is a wear -proof

02:27:07.200 --> 02:27:11.159
Cerakote ceramic. It feels very sturdy. Also,

02:27:11.159 --> 02:27:13.819
the screen lens, instead of plastic like on the

02:27:13.819 --> 02:27:16.319
original Game Boy, it's actually lab -grown sapphire

02:27:16.319 --> 02:27:18.780
crystal. It's the largest piece of sapphire crystal

02:27:18.780 --> 02:27:21.079
in any product ever in history. So it's like

02:27:21.079 --> 02:27:23.639
a fine watch. Exactly. But then we made a new

02:27:23.639 --> 02:27:26.600
version of Tetris for it. That's incredible.

02:27:27.159 --> 02:27:31.680
Whoops. But the thing that's interesting about

02:27:31.680 --> 02:27:34.620
this, I turn it on, the game is instantly going.

02:27:34.819 --> 02:27:37.100
There's no ads. There's no subscriptions. It

02:27:37.100 --> 02:27:39.059
doesn't say, log in and download the updates.

02:27:39.219 --> 02:27:41.379
Let us show you the pre -roll ads. Now you need

02:27:41.379 --> 02:27:43.000
to make a user account and put in all your user

02:27:43.000 --> 02:27:44.399
preferences and give us access to your email

02:27:44.399 --> 02:27:46.100
and give us access to your social media if you

02:27:46.100 --> 02:27:48.940
want to have the extra booster packs. It's just

02:27:48.940 --> 02:27:51.340
– Access to your social media. Oh, that's a very

02:27:51.340 --> 02:27:53.899
common thing now. A lot of games, they are heavily

02:27:53.899 --> 02:27:56.299
incentivizing linking your social media accounts

02:27:56.299 --> 02:27:58.719
to your game accounts and letting them see your

02:27:58.719 --> 02:28:01.100
contacts, your friends list. Well, because they

02:28:01.100 --> 02:28:02.360
want all that data. They want to know who they

02:28:02.360 --> 02:28:04.520
can market to. They want to see what your demographics

02:28:04.520 --> 02:28:06.139
are. They want to say, what is this customer

02:28:06.139 --> 02:28:09.959
like? Can you opt out? So there are some games

02:28:09.959 --> 02:28:12.260
that require you to have social media integration.

02:28:12.659 --> 02:28:14.520
What? Do you have people with dark patterns?

02:28:15.229 --> 02:28:18.170
No. So like there are these patterns that exist

02:28:18.170 --> 02:28:22.409
in social media design and app design that steer

02:28:22.409 --> 02:28:24.870
you down a particular direction. And so they

02:28:24.870 --> 02:28:27.350
don't force you to do it. But the average user,

02:28:27.430 --> 02:28:29.329
unless they're trying to fight their way out

02:28:29.329 --> 02:28:31.030
of it, is going to do it. So, for example, I'll

02:28:31.030 --> 02:28:32.430
be logging into a game. I've just downloaded

02:28:32.430 --> 02:28:35.170
Overwatch 2 and it says you need to log in. You

02:28:35.170 --> 02:28:38.549
can either go through this extremely convoluted

02:28:38.549 --> 02:28:41.969
process of creating a new only Overwatch 2 Blizzard

02:28:41.969 --> 02:28:44.309
account or you can click the button that says.

02:28:44.770 --> 02:28:47.709
Log in with Google or log in with Facebook. What

02:28:47.709 --> 02:28:51.649
are 99? And then you click it and it says, to

02:28:51.649 --> 02:28:52.989
do this, you have to give us permission to see

02:28:52.989 --> 02:28:54.250
this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this,

02:28:54.250 --> 02:28:56.770
this, this. And look, you and I care about this

02:28:56.770 --> 02:28:58.750
stuff because I think we're relics who remember

02:28:58.750 --> 02:29:00.770
when privacy was a thing and when some things

02:29:00.770 --> 02:29:02.649
are for yourself. A lot of these kids, they just

02:29:02.649 --> 02:29:04.770
don't care. They just click it. You talk to the

02:29:04.770 --> 02:29:06.809
Gen Z kids and it's like, well, why do you want?

02:29:07.049 --> 02:29:08.309
Are you going to give that away? They say, well.

02:29:09.180 --> 02:29:11.639
Like they don't see value in it. And they grew

02:29:11.639 --> 02:29:13.840
up with that as the norm. And that's why I say

02:29:13.840 --> 02:29:15.799
it's important to remember when it wasn't the

02:29:15.799 --> 02:29:18.180
norm. Do people get dummy accounts so that they

02:29:18.180 --> 02:29:20.459
can give a dummy account just to that? There

02:29:20.459 --> 02:29:24.110
are people who do it. But most people don't.

02:29:24.110 --> 02:29:26.350
And also the thing is they make it where there's

02:29:26.350 --> 02:29:27.950
even reasons where you want it to be tied to

02:29:27.950 --> 02:29:30.090
your social media. So they want to gather lots

02:29:30.090 --> 02:29:31.930
of information and get you plugged into their

02:29:31.930 --> 02:29:33.829
marketing ecosystem. And they say, oh, if you

02:29:33.829 --> 02:29:36.889
log in with this social media account, then we

02:29:36.889 --> 02:29:40.709
can automatically add all of your friends to

02:29:40.709 --> 02:29:43.149
your in -game friends list. So you don't have

02:29:43.149 --> 02:29:46.090
to go and manually invite them. So it is a convenience

02:29:46.090 --> 02:29:48.069
feature. But the thing is they could do that.

02:29:48.909 --> 02:29:50.850
without storing all that data and giving them

02:29:50.850 --> 02:29:52.770
persistent access to all your social media accounts

02:29:52.770 --> 02:29:54.770
and seeing everything that you're posting. Some

02:29:54.770 --> 02:29:56.350
of these apps, even you give them permission

02:29:56.350 --> 02:29:59.690
to post on your behalf. And what they do is like,

02:29:59.750 --> 02:30:02.190
this was a, this was innovated kind of like the

02:30:02.190 --> 02:30:04.909
Farmville stuff. Do you remember Farmville? And

02:30:04.909 --> 02:30:06.870
you had to say, the reason it was so viral is

02:30:06.870 --> 02:30:08.729
when you would do stuff in Farmville, it would

02:30:08.729 --> 02:30:11.930
literally post on your wall and say, oh, Palmer

02:30:11.930 --> 02:30:14.489
just did this. Palmer just visited Joe's farm

02:30:14.489 --> 02:30:17.809
and helped him do this. Those tactics have evolved.

02:30:18.569 --> 02:30:20.950
It's way beyond to make these things very sticky,

02:30:21.110 --> 02:30:22.930
very addictive. So look, you can make a fake

02:30:22.930 --> 02:30:25.829
account. You can make a burner account. And there's

02:30:25.829 --> 02:30:28.069
like 1 % of people who will ever think of doing

02:30:28.069 --> 02:30:31.670
something like that. And so for them, it's just

02:30:31.670 --> 02:30:34.409
about mass. And I wouldn't mind so much if it

02:30:34.409 --> 02:30:36.629
was just about making money. Like making money

02:30:36.629 --> 02:30:39.450
is fine. Like I'm a believer in the free market

02:30:39.450 --> 02:30:41.770
generally. I'm a believer in capitalism strongly.

02:30:42.790 --> 02:30:44.409
But then the problem is you have this combination

02:30:44.409 --> 02:30:47.750
of capitalism -driven capture efforts combined

02:30:47.750 --> 02:30:51.170
with people who don't care about making money

02:30:51.170 --> 02:30:54.030
nearly so much as pushing their particular social

02:30:54.030 --> 02:30:57.309
ideals. You've probably seen this in Hollywood.

02:30:57.590 --> 02:31:00.370
You certainly see it in the games industry where

02:31:00.370 --> 02:31:01.790
you have people who are joining the industry

02:31:01.790 --> 02:31:04.069
not because they want to make great games, not

02:31:04.069 --> 02:31:06.649
even because they want to make money. And I'd

02:31:06.649 --> 02:31:08.959
say making great games is the best reason. Making

02:31:08.959 --> 02:31:11.700
money is an acceptable reason. It's because they

02:31:11.700 --> 02:31:15.719
want to bring about greater equity and representation

02:31:15.719 --> 02:31:18.979
of people that look like them. And that's fine

02:31:18.979 --> 02:31:21.219
to have as a thing in the back of your mind.

02:31:21.360 --> 02:31:23.020
But there's people who are joining where that

02:31:23.020 --> 02:31:25.879
is what they want to do. And anyone who's against

02:31:25.879 --> 02:31:27.780
it, they're going to berate them. Anyone in the

02:31:27.780 --> 02:31:29.680
company who says, I actually think we should

02:31:29.680 --> 02:31:32.079
make games for our customers, not the people

02:31:32.079 --> 02:31:34.559
you wish were our customers. Let's make games

02:31:34.559 --> 02:31:38.110
for the guys who buy our games, not... The moms

02:31:38.110 --> 02:31:40.270
you wish were buying our games. And people like

02:31:40.270 --> 02:31:42.510
that are being ejected out of companies. I mean,

02:31:42.530 --> 02:31:44.889
it's very politically incorrect. There's a question.

02:31:45.090 --> 02:31:48.149
Well, that's the Bud Light dilemma, right? Exactly.

02:31:48.409 --> 02:31:50.850
They tried to make Bud Light for people who don't

02:31:50.850 --> 02:31:53.069
want Bud Light and make fun of the Bud Light

02:31:53.069 --> 02:31:56.030
people. It's the mythical audience. It's a mystical

02:31:56.030 --> 02:31:58.950
mainstream audience. And, you know, it's even

02:31:58.950 --> 02:32:01.010
worse in gaming because they'll say things like,

02:32:01.090 --> 02:32:06.219
oh, you know, 50 % of gamers are. are stay -at

02:32:06.219 --> 02:32:08.780
-home moms. And you're like, what? That obviously

02:32:08.780 --> 02:32:11.040
isn't true. And what it is, is it's something

02:32:11.040 --> 02:32:12.500
like there's a lot of stay -at -home moms who've

02:32:12.500 --> 02:32:14.860
played Candy Crush a few times. And there's a

02:32:14.860 --> 02:32:16.760
lot of them. And they're like, therefore, we

02:32:16.760 --> 02:32:20.319
need to build to that market. Okay. I don't want

02:32:20.319 --> 02:32:23.139
to get into a fight over what a gamer is, but

02:32:23.139 --> 02:32:24.559
what do you think sounds like a better business

02:32:24.559 --> 02:32:29.020
plan? To go after the young men, primarily, who

02:32:29.020 --> 02:32:34.079
buy a dozen $50 games a year? Or the mom who

02:32:34.079 --> 02:32:40.440
once spent $5 on Candy Crush. And if you say

02:32:40.440 --> 02:32:42.159
that, if you put it the way I just put it, they're

02:32:42.159 --> 02:32:44.940
like, that's so sexist of you. Why don't you

02:32:44.940 --> 02:32:48.139
want to bring in new audiences? I saw this when

02:32:48.139 --> 02:32:50.979
I was in Silicon Valley. What I called it was

02:32:50.979 --> 02:32:54.620
– I said there's too many people who drink Starbucks

02:32:54.620 --> 02:32:56.819
and not enough who drink Mountain Dew. And you

02:32:56.819 --> 02:32:59.780
know exactly what I mean when I say that. It's

02:32:59.780 --> 02:33:03.639
just – It's been a really bizarre thing to watch

02:33:03.639 --> 02:33:07.299
in all of these different industries. Yeah, it's

02:33:07.299 --> 02:33:10.219
a mind virus. It's captured universities and

02:33:10.219 --> 02:33:12.979
then it bled out into corporations. One of my

02:33:12.979 --> 02:33:16.979
favorite questions to ask people is starting

02:33:16.979 --> 02:33:20.280
a company is hard. You can't – you'll fail most

02:33:20.280 --> 02:33:21.959
of the time even when you don't constrain yourself

02:33:21.959 --> 02:33:26.040
to trying to change the social system. Look,

02:33:26.159 --> 02:33:29.549
if you could make it where there's – If you can

02:33:29.549 --> 02:33:32.090
make it where there's all those moms all get

02:33:32.090 --> 02:33:34.610
into games and it was free, that would be great.

02:33:34.709 --> 02:33:36.569
But it's not. It's a tradeoff. You have to take

02:33:36.569 --> 02:33:39.170
resources you would have put on your real customers

02:33:39.170 --> 02:33:41.950
and put it towards them. One question I ask people

02:33:41.950 --> 02:33:44.989
is just ideologically is, okay, imagine your

02:33:44.989 --> 02:33:50.229
job is to build a corporate building for a company.

02:33:50.930 --> 02:33:53.190
And the company, you know exactly who they are.

02:33:53.500 --> 02:33:55.000
You know how many men there are? You know how

02:33:55.000 --> 02:33:56.319
many women there are? We don't have to say how

02:33:56.319 --> 02:33:59.180
many there are. Don't make it about one gender

02:33:59.180 --> 02:34:02.559
versus another. It's just there are lots of men.

02:34:02.600 --> 02:34:04.040
There's lots of women. I won't pick a number.

02:34:04.299 --> 02:34:07.239
When you're designing this building, should you

02:34:07.239 --> 02:34:11.780
have the number of bathrooms that would best

02:34:11.780 --> 02:34:14.799
serve the actual gender makeup of the company

02:34:14.799 --> 02:34:16.760
that would allow them to use the bathroom and

02:34:16.760 --> 02:34:18.440
get back to their desk without waiting in line?

02:34:19.040 --> 02:34:22.170
Or would you do anything else? Like, would you

02:34:22.170 --> 02:34:24.510
pursue a different strategy? And if it's different,

02:34:24.569 --> 02:34:25.909
what would your strategy be? And many people

02:34:25.909 --> 02:34:27.829
say, well, I would build it, you know, perfect

02:34:27.829 --> 02:34:29.950
50 -50. And if they say, well, I'm doing that

02:34:29.950 --> 02:34:31.250
because it's, you know, the easiest way to do

02:34:31.250 --> 02:34:32.969
it. I'm like, OK, that's fine. But if they say,

02:34:33.010 --> 02:34:35.629
well, I would, you know, I would I would hope

02:34:35.629 --> 02:34:38.049
that I would I want to create an environment

02:34:38.049 --> 02:34:42.020
where. It will – it should eventually be 50 percent

02:34:42.020 --> 02:34:43.500
men and 50 percent women. I say, OK, so wait.

02:34:43.600 --> 02:34:45.479
You're going to – you have a company, 90 percent

02:34:45.479 --> 02:34:47.500
men, 10 percent women. You think the men should

02:34:47.500 --> 02:34:49.600
have to wait in line five times as long at the

02:34:49.600 --> 02:34:51.940
bathroom because someday that might make more

02:34:51.940 --> 02:34:54.239
women want to work at this company? It's one

02:34:54.239 --> 02:34:56.959
of those really interesting dividing questions

02:34:56.959 --> 02:34:59.280
where it's basically do you want to solve the

02:34:59.280 --> 02:35:01.219
problem that allows your business to succeed

02:35:01.219 --> 02:35:05.290
or are you trying to – achieve totally parallel

02:35:05.290 --> 02:35:08.629
social aims at the expense of the business. And

02:35:08.629 --> 02:35:10.829
companies are hiring a lot of people who think

02:35:10.829 --> 02:35:12.569
about it that way. They don't see their role

02:35:12.569 --> 02:35:14.649
as to come in and make the company better or

02:35:14.649 --> 02:35:15.750
to make a better product for their customer.

02:35:16.149 --> 02:35:18.510
They see it as to come in and affect that change,

02:35:18.649 --> 02:35:20.409
even if it tanks the company in the process.

02:35:20.549 --> 02:35:24.290
Have you seen? How did that happen? Dude, I don't

02:35:24.290 --> 02:35:27.090
know. Where that's common. I think that probably

02:35:27.090 --> 02:35:30.569
you let, I mean, there's a lot of theories. I

02:35:30.569 --> 02:35:34.180
can give you mine. It was the zero interest rate

02:35:34.180 --> 02:35:36.840
phenomenon theory. Are you familiar with this?

02:35:36.860 --> 02:35:38.600
The zero interest rate phenomenon, ZERP, they

02:35:38.600 --> 02:35:40.700
call it. Some people call it the zero interest

02:35:40.700 --> 02:35:45.600
rate period. So ZERP was this period of time

02:35:45.600 --> 02:35:48.479
that we've really seen over the last 15 years

02:35:48.479 --> 02:35:51.639
up until very recently where money was basically

02:35:51.639 --> 02:35:54.280
free to borrow. That's where you've seen so much

02:35:54.280 --> 02:35:57.000
economic growth. You've seen a lot of it artificially

02:35:57.000 --> 02:35:58.799
propped up in the tech and the media industry.

02:35:59.360 --> 02:36:01.379
I think a lot of like these streaming plays have

02:36:01.379 --> 02:36:03.760
been propped up by Zerp. When interest rates

02:36:03.760 --> 02:36:05.879
are extremely low and money is very cheap to

02:36:05.879 --> 02:36:08.299
borrow, people will spend tons and tons of tons

02:36:08.299 --> 02:36:10.620
of money. The economy appears to be doing very

02:36:10.620 --> 02:36:12.219
well. You have the growth that looks good on

02:36:12.219 --> 02:36:14.219
the stock market. And so companies don't need

02:36:14.219 --> 02:36:16.459
to ever tighten their belts. They can hire and

02:36:16.459 --> 02:36:18.639
hire and hire. They can become grossly inefficient.

02:36:19.000 --> 02:36:21.600
They can pursue things that don't make money

02:36:21.600 --> 02:36:24.399
and they're still doing OK. And so a lot of these

02:36:24.399 --> 02:36:27.540
companies, they're. Their employees were kind

02:36:27.540 --> 02:36:28.920
of out of control. You had people coming out

02:36:28.920 --> 02:36:31.020
of college who believed their job was to change

02:36:31.020 --> 02:36:33.299
the world by using the money of these corporations.

02:36:34.040 --> 02:36:36.719
And the corporations didn't push back on it because

02:36:36.719 --> 02:36:39.260
they would be accused of being bigots and committing

02:36:39.260 --> 02:36:42.260
hate crimes. And they said, you know what? The

02:36:42.260 --> 02:36:44.979
stock is going up. Everything's going well. We

02:36:44.979 --> 02:36:47.840
can just keep doing this. My theory is actually

02:36:47.840 --> 02:36:50.239
that interest rates going up have been very good

02:36:50.239 --> 02:36:52.399
for solving this problem. You've seen a lot of

02:36:52.399 --> 02:36:54.280
layoffs in the tech industry. You've seen a lot

02:36:54.280 --> 02:36:56.549
of layoffs in the media industry. I think that

02:36:56.549 --> 02:36:58.530
a lot of those are driven by interest rates rising,

02:36:58.670 --> 02:37:01.270
money's not free, and now companies have to actually

02:37:01.270 --> 02:37:04.950
make what people want. Did you see – you probably

02:37:04.950 --> 02:37:08.409
didn't, but did you happen to see the first quarterly

02:37:08.409 --> 02:37:11.090
earnings call by the new CEO of Warner Brothers

02:37:11.090 --> 02:37:13.049
who came in a year or two? He came in a year

02:37:13.049 --> 02:37:16.389
or two ago, and it was incredible. He had this

02:37:16.389 --> 02:37:20.629
speech that was exactly what fans wanted to hear

02:37:20.629 --> 02:37:24.069
and what investors wanted to hear, but his employees

02:37:24.069 --> 02:37:28.319
were furious. He came on and said, in my tenure,

02:37:28.540 --> 02:37:31.459
I'm going to pursue something that's a bit novel

02:37:31.459 --> 02:37:34.360
for Warner Brothers. Instead of making movies

02:37:34.360 --> 02:37:36.879
that people don't want to see, I'm going to make

02:37:36.879 --> 02:37:39.500
movies that people do want to see. Instead of

02:37:39.500 --> 02:37:42.360
making movies that don't make money, instead,

02:37:42.500 --> 02:37:45.920
we will make movies that do make money. And to

02:37:45.920 --> 02:37:49.299
do that, we are going to make products that people

02:37:49.299 --> 02:37:52.680
want, like Batman and Lord of the Rings and Harry

02:37:52.680 --> 02:37:56.120
Potter. And that is going to be the core of our

02:37:56.120 --> 02:37:59.180
market success. And that's what fans want. They're

02:37:59.180 --> 02:38:00.319
like, oh, my God, this is great. They're going

02:38:00.319 --> 02:38:03.299
to stop making these kind of social justice pieces

02:38:03.299 --> 02:38:05.120
and make us the things that we actually want.

02:38:05.239 --> 02:38:06.799
The investors love it because he says they're

02:38:06.799 --> 02:38:08.540
going to make money. But the people who are angry

02:38:08.540 --> 02:38:11.579
were all of the college students who joined thinking

02:38:11.579 --> 02:38:13.799
that they were going to use billions of dollars

02:38:13.799 --> 02:38:17.280
from Warner Brothers to make their pet art film

02:38:17.280 --> 02:38:21.440
projects about various oppressed groups. And

02:38:21.440 --> 02:38:23.260
I think that that is happening across the industry.

02:38:23.340 --> 02:38:25.719
I think that's a good thing. It's a good adjustment.

02:38:26.340 --> 02:38:28.979
That makes sense. So speaking of making things.

02:38:30.739 --> 02:38:33.340
Oh, yeah. Bust out the helmet, son. All right.

02:38:33.420 --> 02:38:38.579
So I'm going to take this off. Okay. So I've

02:38:38.579 --> 02:38:39.780
been working on head -mounted displays for a

02:38:39.780 --> 02:38:41.680
long time. I created the Oculus Rift when I was

02:38:41.680 --> 02:38:43.700
19 years old, living in a camper trailer in my

02:38:43.700 --> 02:38:46.540
garage. And that was really the virtual reality

02:38:46.540 --> 02:38:48.459
headset that changed the industry, sold that

02:38:48.459 --> 02:38:51.649
company for billions of dollars. And now that

02:38:51.649 --> 02:38:53.430
I'm working in the national security space, I've

02:38:53.430 --> 02:38:55.469
continued to believe that virtual reality, augmented

02:38:55.469 --> 02:38:57.610
reality is going to be a critical part of our

02:38:57.610 --> 02:38:59.649
military. So the ability to have night vision,

02:38:59.750 --> 02:39:02.510
thermal vision, but also the ability to see where

02:39:02.510 --> 02:39:04.469
all the bad guys are, see where all the good

02:39:04.469 --> 02:39:07.149
guys are by fusing everyone's view together.

02:39:07.290 --> 02:39:09.290
Think of it almost like a hive mind. If I'm able

02:39:09.290 --> 02:39:11.229
to see something, you should be able to see it.

02:39:11.270 --> 02:39:13.270
If a drone can see it, you should be able to

02:39:13.270 --> 02:39:15.450
see it. Even if it's on the other side of a building,

02:39:15.649 --> 02:39:17.250
you should be able to see it and effectively

02:39:17.250 --> 02:39:19.590
have x -ray vision. And I should be able to command

02:39:19.590 --> 02:39:22.010
and control all these other systems using this

02:39:22.010 --> 02:39:25.389
heads -up display interface. None of what I'm

02:39:25.389 --> 02:39:27.010
saying sounds that crazy, right? It just sounds

02:39:27.010 --> 02:39:29.690
like any science fiction film. These are ideas

02:39:29.690 --> 02:39:31.530
that have been around for 100 years, but only

02:39:31.530 --> 02:39:33.930
very recently has it become possible. So this

02:39:33.930 --> 02:39:36.250
is a new product. that we just announced at the

02:39:36.250 --> 02:39:38.530
Army's conference yesterday. We've been working

02:39:38.530 --> 02:39:40.829
on it for years, using our own money, no taxpayer

02:39:40.829 --> 02:39:44.209
dollars were used to create it. It's called Eagle

02:39:44.209 --> 02:39:47.610
Eye. And it is an integrated ballistics shell.

02:39:47.729 --> 02:39:50.600
So you've got a helmet. You've got hearing protection.

02:39:50.979 --> 02:39:55.120
You've got thermal sensors, night sensors, signals,

02:39:55.180 --> 02:39:57.139
intelligent sensors that allow you to detect

02:39:57.139 --> 02:40:00.040
where cell phones are, where radios are. See

02:40:00.040 --> 02:40:02.420
that in your view. It even detects where gunshots

02:40:02.420 --> 02:40:04.920
are, shows them exactly where they're placed

02:40:04.920 --> 02:40:08.040
and how far they are. So this is the this is

02:40:08.040 --> 02:40:10.200
a recreation of it. So this is like, yeah, this

02:40:10.200 --> 02:40:13.139
is a video feed of what it is like to use the

02:40:13.139 --> 02:40:16.200
system. So I've got the helmet on here. And then

02:40:16.200 --> 02:40:19.389
what I have is this pair of. augmented reality

02:40:19.389 --> 02:40:22.809
glasses um so basically i can take these glasses

02:40:22.809 --> 02:40:27.370
and i put them on these sync with the helmet

02:40:27.370 --> 02:40:30.889
and with these sensors so i can for example see

02:40:30.889 --> 02:40:34.430
where my gun is pointing i can see where every

02:40:34.430 --> 02:40:37.370
enemy is i can see where all of my buddies are

02:40:37.370 --> 02:40:39.690
i can see so like there's a there's a view that's

02:40:39.690 --> 02:40:41.590
coming up here where you're going to notice a

02:40:41.590 --> 02:40:44.469
drone picks up a guy behind that container over

02:40:44.469 --> 02:40:47.299
there And what's going to happen is when he walks

02:40:47.299 --> 02:40:49.940
behind that container, I'm able to continue to

02:40:49.940 --> 02:40:53.159
see where he is and what he's doing. So here's

02:40:53.159 --> 02:40:55.120
Ghost X is the drone that's watching. So just

02:40:55.120 --> 02:40:57.780
watch for a moment. So the blue force is my friendlies.

02:40:58.459 --> 02:41:00.719
So see that little right -hand corner where it

02:41:00.719 --> 02:41:03.239
sees behind the containers? They're tracking

02:41:03.239 --> 02:41:05.379
where the bad guy is. They're tracking where

02:41:05.379 --> 02:41:07.659
my guys are. And then watch when they go behind

02:41:07.659 --> 02:41:11.420
the container. So I can actually see through

02:41:11.420 --> 02:41:13.299
it and watch. Now they're engaging the guy over

02:41:13.299 --> 02:41:16.100
there and he's down. Wow. Imagine a guy's coming

02:41:16.100 --> 02:41:18.879
over a hill and I want to engage him. So actually

02:41:18.879 --> 02:41:20.420
I'm going to put on the mission shield. There

02:41:20.420 --> 02:41:24.899
we go. So this is a system that allows everybody

02:41:24.899 --> 02:41:29.819
to basically be operating as one combined hive

02:41:29.819 --> 02:41:32.819
mind where you can all share a view of the world.

02:41:32.879 --> 02:41:35.059
And by the way, this view that I have, it's shared

02:41:35.059 --> 02:41:38.479
now. With all of the robots as well. So anything

02:41:38.479 --> 02:41:41.420
I see, like let's say I see someone inside of

02:41:41.420 --> 02:41:44.579
a building. Every drone and every person now

02:41:44.579 --> 02:41:50.020
sees that person where he is. It's so crazy that

02:41:50.020 --> 02:41:52.760
I was born at the right time to actually get

02:41:52.760 --> 02:41:55.120
to build all this stuff. Because you know Robert

02:41:55.120 --> 02:41:56.680
Heinlein, the science fiction author who did

02:41:56.680 --> 02:42:00.180
Starship Troopers? Okay. He was literally writing

02:42:00.180 --> 02:42:02.700
about these ideas of mobile infantry that's wearing

02:42:02.700 --> 02:42:06.120
mech suits and ballistics prediction, like helmets

02:42:06.120 --> 02:42:08.500
that show you the bad guys, give you radar feeds,

02:42:08.780 --> 02:42:10.780
give you night vision, give you thermal vision,

02:42:10.819 --> 02:42:14.579
the ability to do ballistics targeting, where

02:42:14.579 --> 02:42:16.299
it calculates where the wind is going to blow

02:42:16.299 --> 02:42:19.799
you around and where it's going to go. He was

02:42:19.799 --> 02:42:22.360
literally writing about this in the 1940s. I

02:42:22.360 --> 02:42:24.079
mean, we're talking about almost 100 years ago.

02:42:24.159 --> 02:42:26.739
Wow. And we happen to be born in the right time.

02:42:26.819 --> 02:42:31.879
So, you know, too late to explore the seas, too

02:42:31.879 --> 02:42:34.200
early to explore the stars, but just in time

02:42:34.200 --> 02:42:36.559
to build Eagle Eye. You're in the right timeline.

02:42:36.879 --> 02:42:38.500
I am in the right timeline. Do you ever feel

02:42:38.500 --> 02:42:40.920
like it's a simulation because of that? Do you

02:42:40.920 --> 02:42:42.459
ever feel like you're living in some sort of

02:42:42.459 --> 02:42:44.920
bizarre simulation? Because otherwise, like,

02:42:45.000 --> 02:42:48.799
why you? Why do you have such a unique existence?

02:42:49.399 --> 02:42:52.280
Why are you so fortunate? Why are all these cool

02:42:52.280 --> 02:42:54.500
things happening for you? It's like I'm reliving

02:42:54.500 --> 02:42:56.879
my nights here in the room with you. Now, I ponder

02:42:56.879 --> 02:42:58.500
it a lot because, I mean, look, we talked earlier

02:42:58.500 --> 02:43:00.579
about how I would only be able to pull off these

02:43:00.579 --> 02:43:03.420
things I pulled off if I continuously succeeded

02:43:03.420 --> 02:43:05.860
over and over and over again. And it does make

02:43:05.860 --> 02:43:07.399
you think, like, what are the odds of that? Is

02:43:07.399 --> 02:43:09.319
it more likely that the world is a simulation?

02:43:10.389 --> 02:43:12.350
And I think actually it just comes down to –

02:43:12.350 --> 02:43:16.829
it comes down to I'm a spiritual person. I believe

02:43:16.829 --> 02:43:19.329
in the existence of a higher creator, of a higher

02:43:19.329 --> 02:43:21.870
power. And I feel like there's actually a lot

02:43:21.870 --> 02:43:25.809
of similarities between that and believing in

02:43:25.809 --> 02:43:28.010
simulation theory. I mean like when people say,

02:43:28.110 --> 02:43:30.610
oh, it's all a simulation. Is that really so

02:43:30.610 --> 02:43:32.469
different from having a universe that was created

02:43:32.469 --> 02:43:41.329
by an all -powerful being? Right. normal religion

02:43:41.329 --> 02:43:45.030
wrapped up in a package that a person who claims

02:43:45.030 --> 02:43:47.950
to be a religious can can partake in. They're

02:43:47.950 --> 02:43:50.129
like, no, I would never believe in, you know,

02:43:50.129 --> 02:43:53.110
a sky daddy. I just believe that we live in a

02:43:53.110 --> 02:43:55.250
world created by a higher being and that he's

02:43:55.250 --> 02:43:57.030
watching our every move and learning from it

02:43:57.030 --> 02:43:59.329
and helping us along the way. I don't know, man.

02:44:00.030 --> 02:44:02.409
You're hitting on a lot of the tenets of major

02:44:02.409 --> 02:44:05.090
world religions. What were they trying to write

02:44:05.090 --> 02:44:07.709
down when they were writing the initial religious

02:44:07.709 --> 02:44:10.389
texts? Like what were they actually describing?

02:44:10.430 --> 02:44:11.790
When you're talking about something that's an

02:44:11.790 --> 02:44:15.209
oral tradition. Let me pop up the – there we

02:44:15.209 --> 02:44:17.530
go. I can pop out this. Can I put that on? Yes,

02:44:17.530 --> 02:44:19.739
absolutely. What are you seeing right now? So

02:44:19.739 --> 02:44:21.780
right now, nothing. Unfortunately, if I'm going

02:44:21.780 --> 02:44:23.100
to give you a good demo, we need to go to an

02:44:23.100 --> 02:44:25.040
area where it's synced up to all the other helmets.

02:44:25.079 --> 02:44:27.639
Oh, okay. I want to show you the night vision.

02:44:27.639 --> 02:44:29.200
I like how the ears pop out, though. Yeah, this

02:44:29.200 --> 02:44:33.500
is my doing. So I'm a huge weapons enthusiast.

02:44:33.559 --> 02:44:38.159
I own about 450 guns. Huge number of, you know,

02:44:38.159 --> 02:44:40.219
I own basically everything that anyone's ever

02:44:40.219 --> 02:44:43.600
fought in. So ballistic vests, uniforms, boots,

02:44:43.819 --> 02:44:47.639
gloves, helmets. I collect that stuff. And so

02:44:47.639 --> 02:44:48.940
one of the cool parts about EagleEye is I got

02:44:48.940 --> 02:44:51.100
to bring all my opinions on what things should

02:44:51.100 --> 02:44:54.239
be, and I can just jam them into the product.

02:44:54.360 --> 02:44:56.620
So the cool thing about this is if you've ever

02:44:56.620 --> 02:44:58.719
used earring protection, normally it pops up

02:44:58.719 --> 02:45:01.520
like this, and it's kind of dangling away. Notice

02:45:01.520 --> 02:45:03.440
how it's really tightly integrated. It's not

02:45:03.440 --> 02:45:05.840
flopping around, but I can pop it open, and now

02:45:05.840 --> 02:45:07.500
I can hear you directly with my own two ears.

02:45:07.620 --> 02:45:09.979
I can pop that and clip it back in, and I'm able

02:45:09.979 --> 02:45:11.899
to hear with electronic pass -through, and it

02:45:11.899 --> 02:45:14.870
actually... enhances my hearing so I can hear

02:45:14.870 --> 02:45:16.909
certain things better. And you'll notice this

02:45:16.909 --> 02:45:18.889
is ballistic ear protection. So have you ever

02:45:18.889 --> 02:45:21.370
seen like a high cut helmet where you can have

02:45:21.370 --> 02:45:22.709
low cut helmets where they protect your ears

02:45:22.709 --> 02:45:24.930
more, high cut helmets where there's no ballistic

02:45:24.930 --> 02:45:27.270
protection over your hearing protection? This

02:45:27.270 --> 02:45:29.229
is ballistic hearing protection. So when I put

02:45:29.229 --> 02:45:31.690
this on, everything is protected with armor.

02:45:32.079 --> 02:45:34.500
even over the soft tissue in my ears and around

02:45:34.500 --> 02:45:37.420
my upper neck. Is there any concern about the

02:45:37.420 --> 02:45:40.219
hinge or that during combat it would pop open?

02:45:40.299 --> 02:45:42.799
No, no. It's a super robust system. So here,

02:45:42.819 --> 02:45:45.200
I'll actually show you. Let me pull off. So these

02:45:45.200 --> 02:45:47.079
are modular sensor pods at the top. They call

02:45:47.079 --> 02:45:49.959
them wolf ears. But I can basically swap these

02:45:49.959 --> 02:45:51.979
even in the field. So I could carry, for example.

02:45:52.280 --> 02:45:55.000
But that seemed too easy to take off. Magnets,

02:45:55.000 --> 02:45:57.360
buddy. Right. But I'm saying if you're in the

02:45:57.360 --> 02:45:59.520
middle of a scramble and you're – Here, check

02:45:59.520 --> 02:46:02.159
this one out. This one has no connector on it.

02:46:02.219 --> 02:46:05.440
This one is – these are not actually real modules.

02:46:05.659 --> 02:46:08.280
These are based – this is a tricky one where

02:46:08.280 --> 02:46:11.299
we have real modules and show modules. The real

02:46:11.299 --> 02:46:13.479
modules, in general, the Army doesn't want to

02:46:13.479 --> 02:46:15.200
have them passed around and people taking pictures

02:46:15.200 --> 02:46:17.420
of them. Like at AUSA, there's people walking

02:46:17.420 --> 02:46:19.100
up, taking pictures of everything in the booth.

02:46:19.219 --> 02:46:20.600
They don't want you to show off, for example,

02:46:20.700 --> 02:46:22.760
the size of the aperture of the thermal imager

02:46:22.760 --> 02:46:24.639
you're using because then they can back -reverse.

02:46:25.129 --> 02:46:27.729
how far you can see, what level of thermal radiation

02:46:27.729 --> 02:46:30.209
you can see. So yeah, these are fake. So these

02:46:30.209 --> 02:46:31.530
are dummies. Yeah, normally you actually, when

02:46:31.530 --> 02:46:33.409
it has a connector in there, you got to actually

02:46:33.409 --> 02:46:35.870
jam it in there and it's retained. And so have

02:46:35.870 --> 02:46:38.190
you done tests where people fall down off hills

02:46:38.190 --> 02:46:41.270
and go for a tumble? So this technology, the

02:46:41.270 --> 02:46:43.530
last revision of it is already with the Army.

02:46:43.649 --> 02:46:45.309
They're doing trials and tests of this literally

02:46:45.309 --> 02:46:48.959
right now. But if you look here. It's basically

02:46:48.959 --> 02:46:52.100
a spring steel mechanism there. And so it's not

02:46:52.100 --> 02:46:54.920
just strong, it's also flexible. So basically

02:46:54.920 --> 02:46:58.139
it can bend and then snap back. And so it's very,

02:46:58.180 --> 02:47:00.639
very hard to overbend this, overextend this.

02:47:00.739 --> 02:47:02.700
Got it. And if you did, like it's very hard,

02:47:02.799 --> 02:47:04.440
but if you did, you grab some pliers and you

02:47:04.440 --> 02:47:06.799
bend it back. And notice how that's a replaceable

02:47:06.799 --> 02:47:09.420
module there. I can just unscrew this and replace

02:47:09.420 --> 02:47:11.479
it with a new part. Everything on here. I can

02:47:11.479 --> 02:47:13.719
repair in the field with a field repair kit as

02:47:13.719 --> 02:47:14.799
well. And does it have the same functionality

02:47:14.799 --> 02:47:18.260
as like walker game ears where you can amplify

02:47:18.260 --> 02:47:21.559
outside noises, but then when a loud boom comes

02:47:21.559 --> 02:47:23.659
off, your ear is protected? Exactly. But it's

02:47:23.659 --> 02:47:26.100
even better. We're using an array of... So those

02:47:26.100 --> 02:47:27.819
ones, they have two microphones. The walkers,

02:47:27.860 --> 02:47:30.100
they typically have one here, one here. What

02:47:30.100 --> 02:47:31.879
we're doing is a phased array of microphones

02:47:31.879 --> 02:47:34.299
so that I can actually steer the amplification

02:47:34.299 --> 02:47:39.649
beam. Like I could say... I hear footsteps over

02:47:39.649 --> 02:47:41.549
in this left direction. Let's point in that.

02:47:41.590 --> 02:47:43.709
Or even crazier. Imagine that I'm looking at

02:47:43.709 --> 02:47:47.170
a target with this, and I look at that target.

02:47:47.409 --> 02:47:50.170
It can cancel out all of the other sound that

02:47:50.170 --> 02:47:52.309
it knows is coming out of phase with that direction

02:47:52.309 --> 02:47:54.889
and distance, and it can give me just the sound

02:47:54.889 --> 02:47:57.750
there coming from that as best it can. So it

02:47:57.750 --> 02:48:00.729
can give me not just enhanced hearing, but directional

02:48:00.729 --> 02:48:02.409
enhanced hearing. I can say, I want to listen

02:48:02.409 --> 02:48:04.389
to what that guy 100 yards over there is saying.

02:48:04.590 --> 02:48:07.000
I'm not promising you'll be able to hear. But

02:48:07.000 --> 02:48:08.739
you'll be able to hear it a lot better than you

02:48:08.739 --> 02:48:12.940
would without it. So it's worth noting, like,

02:48:12.979 --> 02:48:15.239
the way this came together is crazy. There was

02:48:15.239 --> 02:48:18.440
a contract to do this, to build an infantry combat

02:48:18.440 --> 02:48:23.059
heads of display in 2017 and 2018 that was awarded

02:48:23.059 --> 02:48:25.639
to Microsoft by the United States Army. It was

02:48:25.639 --> 02:48:31.719
$22 billion. $22 billion to develop this technology.

02:48:32.479 --> 02:48:34.719
And I actually wanted to compete in that competition

02:48:34.719 --> 02:48:37.299
back then. But at the time, Andral was only about

02:48:37.299 --> 02:48:39.899
two dozen people. And so it was a competition.

02:48:40.000 --> 02:48:43.520
Do you remember Magic Leap? Yes. It was a competition

02:48:43.520 --> 02:48:46.100
between Magic Leap and Microsoft. Microsoft ended

02:48:46.100 --> 02:48:48.139
up winning. I think that's probably good because

02:48:48.139 --> 02:48:50.079
the guy who was running Magic Leap was not really

02:48:50.079 --> 02:48:52.239
a fan of the military. And I think it's dangerous

02:48:52.239 --> 02:48:55.750
to have. Even if you don't, it's fine to not

02:48:55.750 --> 02:48:57.489
like the military, but you shouldn't have people

02:48:57.489 --> 02:48:59.389
who don't like the military running the military,

02:48:59.549 --> 02:49:02.489
right? And I think you shouldn't have people

02:49:02.489 --> 02:49:04.350
who are in love with the military regulating

02:49:04.350 --> 02:49:07.030
the military, right? Everyone has their role.

02:49:08.049 --> 02:49:12.170
Anyway, I was very skeptical of their technology.

02:49:12.569 --> 02:49:15.430
You remember HoloLens? That was Microsoft's consumer

02:49:15.430 --> 02:49:20.909
virtual reality, augmented reality effort. Their

02:49:20.909 --> 02:49:23.850
AR project was adapting that. to the military

02:49:23.850 --> 02:49:29.090
into this product called IVAS. And to make a

02:49:29.090 --> 02:49:31.030
very, very long story short, it had a lot of

02:49:31.030 --> 02:49:33.450
problems. Their early hardware was making people

02:49:33.450 --> 02:49:36.969
sick. It had lag. The night vision wasn't working

02:49:36.969 --> 02:49:40.020
well. There were soldier evaluation touch points

02:49:40.020 --> 02:49:41.719
that came out where they were saying, hey, I'll

02:49:41.719 --> 02:49:44.139
get killed if I wear this. Microsoft invested

02:49:44.139 --> 02:49:45.840
a lot of money trying to make it better. But

02:49:45.840 --> 02:49:48.079
eventually they ended up killing even their consumer

02:49:48.079 --> 02:49:49.620
hall lens division. They just shut everything

02:49:49.620 --> 02:49:51.739
down. And so the crazy part of this whole story

02:49:51.739 --> 02:49:53.399
is starting a few years ago, I started going

02:49:53.399 --> 02:49:56.120
to Microsoft and saying, hey, will you guys just.

02:49:56.399 --> 02:49:58.280
Give me the iVAS program. Like, will you just

02:49:58.280 --> 02:50:00.540
let me take over? You guys can keep building,

02:50:00.620 --> 02:50:03.020
you know, Microsoft applications, cloud computing,

02:50:03.139 --> 02:50:05.600
the stuff you're good at. Let me build the tactical

02:50:05.600 --> 02:50:07.600
heads -up display hardware. And when I first

02:50:07.600 --> 02:50:09.200
talked to them years ago, they thought I was

02:50:09.200 --> 02:50:11.319
nuts. Like, they was almost like insulted. It

02:50:11.319 --> 02:50:13.379
was like when Microsoft tried to buy Nintendo

02:50:13.379 --> 02:50:15.879
and they got literally laughed out of the room.

02:50:17.479 --> 02:50:21.100
And then as time went on, they started to laugh

02:50:21.100 --> 02:50:23.819
less and less. And eventually they said, hey,

02:50:23.840 --> 02:50:25.200
remember how you said you wanted to take over

02:50:25.200 --> 02:50:28.829
iVAS? We would actually love to partner with

02:50:28.829 --> 02:50:31.930
you on this and let you bring your magic to bear

02:50:31.930 --> 02:50:34.610
on this problem. And I try to be a humble guy.

02:50:34.969 --> 02:50:37.870
I don't usually succeed, but I am not humble

02:50:37.870 --> 02:50:40.250
in this one regard. I believe that I am the world's

02:50:40.250 --> 02:50:42.510
best head -mounted display designer, bar none.

02:50:42.870 --> 02:50:45.430
I took the crown with the Oculus Rift. I think

02:50:45.430 --> 02:50:48.389
I still hold it. And so I was able to kick the

02:50:48.389 --> 02:50:50.209
program into shape. We built our own hardware,

02:50:50.309 --> 02:50:53.110
and we've built Eagle Eye over the last couple

02:50:53.110 --> 02:50:55.600
of years. And it is... It basically solves all

02:50:55.600 --> 02:50:59.319
the problems that the program had. It is the

02:50:59.319 --> 02:51:00.559
thing that I think is actually going to end up

02:51:00.559 --> 02:51:02.260
on the heads of every soldier. Here, try taking

02:51:02.260 --> 02:51:03.940
these on and you'll feel they're a bit heavier

02:51:03.940 --> 02:51:07.100
than normal glasses. But the other thing about

02:51:07.100 --> 02:51:09.100
them is that they're also ballistic -rated glasses.

02:51:09.180 --> 02:51:10.739
So you see in the front and then also on the

02:51:10.739 --> 02:51:13.620
sides. Yeah, so these can take pieces of frag.

02:51:13.680 --> 02:51:15.600
So if someone's attacking you with a drone and

02:51:15.600 --> 02:51:17.819
it blows up, this is going to keep those from

02:51:17.819 --> 02:51:20.420
going into your orbitals, which is a pretty important

02:51:20.420 --> 02:51:23.000
function for glasses. Yeah, I would say so. What

02:51:23.000 --> 02:51:25.799
is this outside piece for? So yeah, try putting

02:51:25.799 --> 02:51:27.620
the glass back on. See if you can pop that off.

02:51:27.780 --> 02:51:29.719
You'll notice that one is actually... Yeah, there

02:51:29.719 --> 02:51:33.620
we go. Perfect. So that's a mission shield. I

02:51:33.620 --> 02:51:34.659
like that you asked about it because actually

02:51:34.659 --> 02:51:36.680
nobody's even noticed really that it's two pieces.

02:51:36.879 --> 02:51:39.440
So the mission shield is a piece that allows

02:51:39.440 --> 02:51:41.680
you to reconfigure the glasses for different

02:51:41.680 --> 02:51:43.819
use cases. If you're using this, for example,

02:51:43.819 --> 02:51:46.500
to like give you automated instructions on how

02:51:46.500 --> 02:51:49.959
to repair your Humvee, for example, I don't need

02:51:49.959 --> 02:51:52.579
to have that ballistic cover on the front because

02:51:52.579 --> 02:51:54.360
I don't need that extra. Like I don't expect

02:51:54.360 --> 02:51:56.739
that I'm going to have an explosion happen and

02:51:56.739 --> 02:51:59.540
protect my eyes. But you can also do things like

02:51:59.540 --> 02:52:01.659
have different types of protection. For example.

02:52:02.219 --> 02:52:05.559
That's just a normal ballistic mission shield.

02:52:05.700 --> 02:52:07.459
We have another mission shield that protects

02:52:07.459 --> 02:52:10.040
you from laser energy weapons. So it's actually

02:52:10.040 --> 02:52:13.950
tuned where now it makes your vision. I probably

02:52:13.950 --> 02:52:15.850
shouldn't talk about exactly what color because

02:52:15.850 --> 02:52:17.690
it allows people to figure out what frequencies

02:52:17.690 --> 02:52:20.129
we're blocking. But there are mission shields

02:52:20.129 --> 02:52:22.190
that you can put on that will protect you from

02:52:22.190 --> 02:52:25.010
weapons that we know China has. China has a bunch

02:52:25.010 --> 02:52:27.510
of directed energy laser weapons, some of them

02:52:27.510 --> 02:52:29.930
for taking out drones, others designed to blind

02:52:29.930 --> 02:52:32.129
human troops. Whoa. And so we're designing mission

02:52:32.129 --> 02:52:34.430
shields that protect you from those types of

02:52:34.430 --> 02:52:37.229
emissions. They're designed to blind human troops?

02:52:38.360 --> 02:52:41.020
Are they employed from drones? I don't want to

02:52:41.020 --> 02:52:44.819
be too aggressive here because I'll tell you

02:52:44.819 --> 02:52:46.600
the United States has weapons that are designed

02:52:46.600 --> 02:52:49.319
to temporarily blind people as well. Now, the

02:52:49.319 --> 02:52:52.100
thing is temporary blinding is very close to

02:52:52.100 --> 02:52:54.479
permanent blinding, and it's a thin line. It's

02:52:54.479 --> 02:52:56.200
dependent on the range. It's dependent on the

02:52:56.200 --> 02:52:59.299
power level. Any system that can temporarily

02:52:59.299 --> 02:53:04.040
blind people at long range is capable of blinding.

02:53:04.329 --> 02:53:06.549
people permanently at long range. It's just that

02:53:06.549 --> 02:53:08.149
that's the line you walk. Like if you want it

02:53:08.149 --> 02:53:10.129
to work in any fog, you need more power. If you

02:53:10.129 --> 02:53:11.829
want it to work at long ranges, you need more

02:53:11.829 --> 02:53:14.010
power. But like, for example, imagine we deployed

02:53:14.010 --> 02:53:15.409
a bunch of these glasses and they had the laser

02:53:15.409 --> 02:53:17.889
filters built in from the start. Now imagine

02:53:17.889 --> 02:53:20.270
that China shifts their laser frequencies 10

02:53:20.270 --> 02:53:23.680
nanometers so that it bypasses that filter. Imagine

02:53:23.680 --> 02:53:26.979
if I had to just replace all my AR glasses. That's

02:53:26.979 --> 02:53:29.520
not acceptable, right? Right. So everything on

02:53:29.520 --> 02:53:31.659
this system is totally modular. So what would

02:53:31.659 --> 02:53:33.299
happen is if they shifted their laser weapons,

02:53:33.520 --> 02:53:34.959
we would just give people a new mission shield.

02:53:35.659 --> 02:53:37.559
Now they're all set. That mission shield comes

02:53:37.559 --> 02:53:40.780
off very easy, though. So this comes – look,

02:53:40.840 --> 02:53:43.799
I got to admit. These are primarily for showing

02:53:43.799 --> 02:53:46.280
off to the army. Got it. So it'll somehow or

02:53:46.280 --> 02:53:48.940
another secure into place. It's actually still

02:53:48.940 --> 02:53:50.799
going to be magnets. It's just going to be a

02:53:50.799 --> 02:53:54.040
lot more force to remove. I'm wondering how much

02:53:54.040 --> 02:53:55.760
I should get into the movie magic here. So look,

02:53:55.799 --> 02:54:00.139
I'll get a little bit into it. I'm mostly an

02:54:00.139 --> 02:54:02.459
engineer. I mostly build stuff. But a big part

02:54:02.459 --> 02:54:05.860
of what I do is understanding what magicians

02:54:05.860 --> 02:54:08.610
think. when they are drawing attention to things,

02:54:08.909 --> 02:54:11.690
when they have patter, when you're going through

02:54:11.690 --> 02:54:13.510
a demo of something to somebody. Like, I used

02:54:13.510 --> 02:54:16.090
to demo the Oculus Rift to thousands of people

02:54:16.090 --> 02:54:18.729
a year. High -powered executives, government.

02:54:22.280 --> 02:54:24.639
CEOs of major game companies, people we were

02:54:24.639 --> 02:54:27.420
trying to hire. And you have to develop a pattern

02:54:27.420 --> 02:54:29.040
of how you talk about stuff. And you need to

02:54:29.040 --> 02:54:30.520
be able to go in any direction. If somebody says,

02:54:30.600 --> 02:54:32.100
well, what about this? You need to be able to

02:54:32.100 --> 02:54:33.659
show them that feature. You need to be ready

02:54:33.659 --> 02:54:36.079
for how you show the feature. I need to be intimately

02:54:36.079 --> 02:54:38.719
familiar with every part of it. The reason that

02:54:38.719 --> 02:54:40.479
the magnets are so weak on this is because we

02:54:40.479 --> 02:54:43.360
show this to people who are weak. I'm not kidding.

02:54:45.049 --> 02:54:47.270
Because you're not swapping this as you're running

02:54:47.270 --> 02:54:49.750
around, right? So in the real one, you can have

02:54:49.750 --> 02:54:53.409
where you're like, and it busts off. But imagine

02:54:53.409 --> 02:54:56.110
this. Imagine we're sitting in a demo room, and

02:54:56.110 --> 02:54:57.930
then you hand this to either a member of the

02:54:57.930 --> 02:55:00.690
press or even, let's say, a member of the armed

02:55:00.690 --> 02:55:03.049
forces. And I say, here you go. And your name

02:55:03.049 --> 02:55:06.309
is Ashley. Take that, Ashley. Pull it off. And

02:55:06.309 --> 02:55:11.659
you're, uh, uh, uh, uh. That's the problem like

02:55:11.659 --> 02:55:13.139
because you need some decent fake you see those

02:55:13.139 --> 02:55:15.760
tabs on the end. Yeah, like the protrusions Yeah,

02:55:15.819 --> 02:55:17.399
that's to make it easier for your fingers to

02:55:17.399 --> 02:55:20.079
grab when you have way more force There are people

02:55:20.079 --> 02:55:21.840
who have really weak fingers. They don't really

02:55:21.840 --> 02:55:25.219
know how to grab stuff and then It's actually

02:55:25.219 --> 02:55:28.040
the same thing with I understand So I'm showing

02:55:28.040 --> 02:55:29.940
you a little bit of the the movie the movie magic

02:55:29.940 --> 02:55:32.360
behind behind how I think these if you want to

02:55:32.360 --> 02:55:34.379
take This you can put it on. This is an actual

02:55:34.379 --> 02:55:37.280
weighted helmet. We've developed a bunch of novel

02:55:37.280 --> 02:55:39.579
technology makes work here Oh, yeah, it actually

02:55:39.579 --> 02:55:42.639
fits on you. Oh, here, your little wrap, your

02:55:42.639 --> 02:55:46.420
chin straps are wrapped around. Yeah, just, sorry,

02:55:46.479 --> 02:55:48.200
I wrapped it around before you even had it. Yep,

02:55:48.200 --> 02:55:54.760
there you go. But, yeah, if you're familiar with

02:55:54.760 --> 02:55:57.059
walkers, very, very similar to what we do on

02:55:57.059 --> 02:55:58.819
the hearing enhancement side. It's just a world

02:55:58.819 --> 02:56:00.600
even beyond that. Is it too tight or you got

02:56:00.600 --> 02:56:04.209
it? And then this snaps. Oh, yeah. How's the

02:56:04.209 --> 02:56:06.409
snap? So here, I might have to come around. There's

02:56:06.409 --> 02:56:08.569
a little bit of a trick that you learn it. What

02:56:08.569 --> 02:56:10.370
it does is it goes in and then you're going to

02:56:10.370 --> 02:56:12.950
push it up and back diagonally. Oh, you did it.

02:56:12.989 --> 02:56:14.750
There you go. I figured it out. I'm so glad.

02:56:14.829 --> 02:56:18.030
See, that's just how intuitive it is. Yeah. Very.

02:56:18.370 --> 02:56:20.489
And the cool thing about this is you don't have

02:56:20.489 --> 02:56:22.870
these like mounts now that are snagging you.

02:56:23.389 --> 02:56:24.829
Here, well, you got to put on the glasses too.

02:56:24.950 --> 02:56:26.590
Oh, yeah. There you go. You don't have the mounts

02:56:26.590 --> 02:56:28.629
that are snagging you. You don't like, have you

02:56:28.629 --> 02:56:32.530
ever, you've used night vision? I have. I mean,

02:56:32.549 --> 02:56:35.649
it's just. You have this big, giant unicorn horn,

02:56:35.750 --> 02:56:37.469
this thing pounding on your face. Also, it's

02:56:37.469 --> 02:56:40.229
very unbalanced. Weight that's out here is torquing

02:56:40.229 --> 02:56:43.629
your neck continuously. And it's annoying when

02:56:43.629 --> 02:56:46.329
you're standing in place. But if you, let's say,

02:56:46.389 --> 02:56:50.090
hit a pothole in a Humvee with a big weight on

02:56:50.090 --> 02:56:52.750
the end of a lever, you destroy your neck. I

02:56:52.750 --> 02:56:57.549
think it's 20. Oh, my God. That can't even be

02:56:57.549 --> 02:57:00.329
right. I want to say, I want, I need to look

02:57:00.329 --> 02:57:02.700
this up. It might be. Is it $200 million for

02:57:02.700 --> 02:57:05.319
the Air Force? I want to say it's $20 billion

02:57:05.319 --> 02:57:09.659
that the DoD spends on neck injuries. Whoa. Primarily

02:57:09.659 --> 02:57:13.620
through the VA, right? There's so many neck injuries

02:57:13.620 --> 02:57:15.760
that occur from spinal compression, people getting

02:57:15.760 --> 02:57:17.459
their heads whipped around. That's why helmets

02:57:17.459 --> 02:57:20.040
need to be extremely lightweight, tightly integrated,

02:57:20.280 --> 02:57:23.139
no snag hazards. It's important that you not

02:57:23.139 --> 02:57:25.819
have a big, giant, bulky thing where I'm going

02:57:25.819 --> 02:57:28.459
through a doorway and it gets on there and all

02:57:28.459 --> 02:57:30.579
of a sudden I go, ah! at a weird angle and I'm

02:57:30.579 --> 02:57:32.559
trying to run through a room. Or like someone's

02:57:32.559 --> 02:57:34.840
turning and part of their rifle, they're right

02:57:34.840 --> 02:57:36.840
up on me and it snags on my helmet and pulls

02:57:36.840 --> 02:57:38.639
me. You've probably seen a lot of people put

02:57:38.639 --> 02:57:40.559
like big battery packs for their night vision

02:57:40.559 --> 02:57:43.500
back here. Same thing. It creates a huge snag

02:57:43.500 --> 02:57:45.959
as you're sliding down something or sliding over

02:57:45.959 --> 02:57:48.079
an edge. You clear it and then the back of your

02:57:48.079 --> 02:57:50.399
head hits that fence and you go boom. What's

02:57:50.399 --> 02:57:52.280
the battery power of something like that? Okay.

02:57:53.180 --> 02:57:56.840
So this has a tiny battery pack on it. This has

02:57:57.209 --> 02:57:59.370
30 minutes of battery life. So what is the lithium

02:57:59.370 --> 02:58:02.069
ion capacity? Is it lithium ion? Is it like a

02:58:02.069 --> 02:58:04.229
cell phone battery? So the battery on here is

02:58:04.229 --> 02:58:06.930
actually, the battery that is in here is basically

02:58:06.930 --> 02:58:10.629
an emergency reserve. It is not intended to power

02:58:10.629 --> 02:58:13.610
it most of the time. It is a primary cell chemistry

02:58:13.610 --> 02:58:15.649
that won't burst into flames. It's basically

02:58:15.649 --> 02:58:17.889
one time use. So think of it like an emergency

02:58:17.889 --> 02:58:20.229
battery that runs it when your helmet is disconnected

02:58:20.229 --> 02:58:22.760
from the main battery. The main battery. Is this.

02:58:23.139 --> 02:58:25.659
So, you ever used ballistic plates before? Yes.

02:58:25.780 --> 02:58:28.399
So, this is a standard geometry, sappy geometry

02:58:28.399 --> 02:58:32.680
plate. This is good for rucking. Exactly. So,

02:58:33.559 --> 02:58:35.780
the cool thing about this is it's a combination

02:58:35.780 --> 02:58:40.680
battery, computer, and ballistic plate. And so,

02:58:40.719 --> 02:58:44.079
here's the craziest part about this. Normally,

02:58:44.139 --> 02:58:46.049
you would wear a plate. And then you would have

02:58:46.049 --> 02:58:47.770
to wear a battery and a computer. That's how

02:58:47.770 --> 02:58:49.469
everyone's always done heads -up displays before.

02:58:49.670 --> 02:58:52.090
And I realize that's crazy because you need that

02:58:52.090 --> 02:58:53.489
space for other stuff, right? You want to be

02:58:53.489 --> 02:58:55.149
carrying ammo. You want to be carrying equipment.

02:58:55.309 --> 02:58:58.670
You want to be carrying grenades or admin stuff.

02:58:58.889 --> 02:59:01.729
You can't use your most valuable real estate

02:59:01.729 --> 02:59:05.629
to just carry a battery brick. So what's in here

02:59:05.629 --> 02:59:09.309
is a battery technology that is an electrolyte

02:59:09.309 --> 02:59:13.470
-free, solid -state ceramic battery. ceramic

02:59:13.470 --> 02:59:16.370
batteries are not as high energy density as in

02:59:16.370 --> 02:59:17.889
terms of like they don't have they don't have

02:59:17.889 --> 02:59:21.370
as much energy per pound as the very very best

02:59:21.370 --> 02:59:25.309
like let's say car electric batteries but they're

02:59:25.309 --> 02:59:28.010
pretty good ballistic material and so what i

02:59:28.010 --> 02:59:30.209
realized is that you instead of having the weight

02:59:30.209 --> 02:59:32.170
of a ballistic plate and then the weight of a

02:59:32.170 --> 02:59:34.870
battery on top you should combine those two functions

02:59:34.870 --> 02:59:37.850
you should make your battery part of your ballistic

02:59:37.850 --> 02:59:42.790
material stack up so that Like, is it the best

02:59:42.790 --> 02:59:45.530
ballistic material in the world? No. Is it the

02:59:45.530 --> 02:59:49.569
best battery material in the world? No. But you

02:59:49.569 --> 02:59:52.190
can have enough of it that it's better than either

02:59:52.190 --> 02:59:55.250
of those things working separately. If I were

02:59:55.250 --> 02:59:57.510
to try to make a system that was a normal armor

02:59:57.510 --> 03:00:00.989
plate and then also this much battery. So like,

03:00:00.989 --> 03:00:03.350
you notice we actually got all the power actually

03:00:03.350 --> 03:00:06.069
labeled right here. So this is 900 watt hour

03:00:06.069 --> 03:00:09.290
battery. If we were to have a plate and then

03:00:09.290 --> 03:00:10.809
a battery, it would be like a plate this big

03:00:10.809 --> 03:00:13.790
and then like another big battery on top. By

03:00:13.790 --> 03:00:16.790
combining the two, I've made it where I've eliminated

03:00:16.790 --> 03:00:19.649
something like 10 pounds from the soldier's ruck,

03:00:19.750 --> 03:00:21.569
which is a huge deal because that's weight I

03:00:21.569 --> 03:00:27.299
can either keep out of his ruck or I can... Or

03:00:27.299 --> 03:00:29.219
I could just put more shit into it. Of course,

03:00:29.219 --> 03:00:31.399
what all my buddies in the army tell me is, Palmer,

03:00:31.500 --> 03:00:33.700
don't let them take those 10 pounds and give

03:00:33.700 --> 03:00:36.379
me 10 pounds more shit. These guys are already

03:00:36.379 --> 03:00:40.079
carrying an insane amount of stuff. This is only

03:00:40.079 --> 03:00:42.219
the start. We're building a bunch of other augments

03:00:42.219 --> 03:00:45.319
that combine multiple systems into one thing.

03:00:45.899 --> 03:00:48.120
In fact, this has also got a bunch of radio hardware

03:00:48.120 --> 03:00:50.680
in it as well. So if you can replace a radio

03:00:50.680 --> 03:00:53.959
and your batteries and your ballistics and your

03:00:53.959 --> 03:00:56.690
onboard computer all in one thing. That's pretty

03:00:56.690 --> 03:01:00.930
cool. But I want to keep doing that. Dude, this

03:01:00.930 --> 03:01:03.049
is all so cool. In general, I would recommend

03:01:03.049 --> 03:01:04.850
using this as your rear plate, not your front

03:01:04.850 --> 03:01:07.209
plate. So if you've got a rear and a front, the

03:01:07.209 --> 03:01:10.010
rear is probably the one that you want to put

03:01:10.010 --> 03:01:12.290
this in. Because if you do get shot in the plate,

03:01:12.930 --> 03:01:15.889
you're more likely to get shot in the front than

03:01:15.889 --> 03:01:17.909
the back. And you don't want to get shot, and

03:01:17.909 --> 03:01:19.610
then you lose all of your energy to run all of

03:01:19.610 --> 03:01:21.969
your sensors and everything else. And if you

03:01:21.969 --> 03:01:24.590
get shot with a plate, it's possible to... take

03:01:24.590 --> 03:01:28.590
that plate and swap it with a fresh one. I mean,

03:01:28.629 --> 03:01:30.870
look, you're the world's biggest badass if you're

03:01:30.870 --> 03:01:32.489
able to do that in a firefight. I don't think

03:01:32.489 --> 03:01:35.649
most people are bad enough to, you know, take

03:01:35.649 --> 03:01:37.729
a hit right in the chest and then pull out their

03:01:37.729 --> 03:01:40.129
plate and slap another one in, but it does happen.

03:01:40.270 --> 03:01:42.850
And so we're generally recommending that people

03:01:42.850 --> 03:01:45.049
use this as the rear plate to make it less likely

03:01:45.049 --> 03:01:47.209
to get shot, but fully capable of operating.

03:01:47.840 --> 03:01:50.520
in front plate service. This is amazing stuff,

03:01:50.620 --> 03:01:53.739
man. Dude, I love my job. I get to work with

03:01:53.739 --> 03:01:57.420
just the coolest technology on the bleeding edge

03:01:57.420 --> 03:01:59.319
of all this. And the best part is that the gains,

03:01:59.420 --> 03:02:02.940
it's not so much in... Some people, they see

03:02:02.940 --> 03:02:05.299
these gains and they get to make money off of

03:02:05.299 --> 03:02:08.040
it. But I do this and I get to have end users

03:02:08.040 --> 03:02:10.399
telling me, Palmer, this is how you saved our

03:02:10.399 --> 03:02:12.700
unit's life. Palmer, this is how your technology

03:02:12.700 --> 03:02:16.059
protected our base. Palmer... People would be

03:02:16.059 --> 03:02:18.940
dead in this particular building if you had not

03:02:18.940 --> 03:02:20.739
developed the technology that you did. That is

03:02:20.739 --> 03:02:23.520
the most rewarding thing that you can do. At

03:02:23.520 --> 03:02:24.979
least the most rewarding thing that I've ever

03:02:24.979 --> 03:02:29.360
done. It's a really cool set of problems. And

03:02:29.360 --> 03:02:32.299
I highly encourage people who are really smart

03:02:32.299 --> 03:02:33.959
to look at doing this stuff because some people,

03:02:34.000 --> 03:02:35.379
they say, oh, I don't want to work on weapons.

03:02:35.559 --> 03:02:36.920
You know, it's ethically fraught. And the point

03:02:36.920 --> 03:02:40.680
I make to them is that this is, whether you like

03:02:40.680 --> 03:02:42.520
it or not, we need some formal weapons, right?

03:02:42.579 --> 03:02:45.030
We're not going to disarm the entire world. There

03:02:45.030 --> 03:02:47.370
are bad guys out there. We need to have something.

03:02:48.049 --> 03:02:50.309
And if you are worried about the ethics of weapons,

03:02:50.510 --> 03:02:52.430
it's actually even more important that you work

03:02:52.430 --> 03:02:54.170
on them because there's no moral high ground

03:02:54.170 --> 03:02:56.969
in outsourcing that work to people who are less

03:02:56.969 --> 03:02:59.329
ethical and less competent than you. If you think

03:02:59.329 --> 03:03:01.149
you're a competent person and you think you're

03:03:01.149 --> 03:03:03.430
an ethical person, you almost have a responsibility

03:03:03.430 --> 03:03:06.389
to care about these and arguably to work on them.

03:03:06.489 --> 03:03:09.840
So that's the way that I look at it. It's cool

03:03:09.840 --> 03:03:11.719
as fuck. I'm glad you're making it, man. And

03:03:11.719 --> 03:03:13.700
I really enjoyed this conversation. I'm really

03:03:13.700 --> 03:03:15.760
glad we did this. This is a lot of fun. So much

03:03:15.760 --> 03:03:18.379
fun. I've got to get you out sometime. I would

03:03:18.379 --> 03:03:19.879
love to. To the range, because we've got a test

03:03:19.879 --> 03:03:22.520
range. We'll hook that up. We'll give you a rifle.

03:03:22.719 --> 03:03:25.059
You'll be able to mark targets. Let's fucking

03:03:25.059 --> 03:03:27.299
go. Let's do it. Let's do it. Thank you very

03:03:27.299 --> 03:03:28.760
much. Thank you. It was really fun. Thanks for

03:03:28.760 --> 03:03:30.360
being here. All right. Bye, everybody.