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Welcome to this curated educational transcript of the Joe Rogan Experience. In this session, we provide a deep-dive examination of the critical perspectives and historical dialogues presented in Episode #2456. Our mission is to offer a high-fidelity, searchable research resource for students of cultural history, emerging technology, and global discourse. This transcript has been specifically optimized for academic reference, linguistic study, and archival preservation regarding Martial Arts Philosophy, High-Performance Athletics, and Contemporary Cinema Industry Dynamics. Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan

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Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by

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night, all day. You're all suited up. You got

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a wild card boxing hat on, a Bruce Lee shirt.

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Come on, son. Hey, we got the yellow and thing

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going on. Yeah, you got it all going on. What's

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happening? Great to see you. Man, things are

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really well. This thing is a little loud. Is

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it? On that thing there, there's a little. Okay.

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You can turn that sucker. There it is. Last time

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I saw you was at Terry Black's barbecue. Yeah.

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Yeah. Random run in. Yeah. That was crazy. That

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was crazy. Yeah, man. I was thinking about going

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there right after this. I'm like, what? Terry

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Black's. That place was no joke. That place rules.

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Yeah, man. Are you still in LA? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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What's it like? It's cool, man. Is it? Yeah.

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You like it? You're the only person that said

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that. No. Yeah, well, because, okay, I defend

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L .A. in a way where, first of all, if you've

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got a handful of good people with you, you know,

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your family. Sure. So the fact that L .A. has

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all kinds of different things. You could be on

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a hiking trail in 20 minutes. Oh, geographically,

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it's amazing. Yeah, and the weather, you can't

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beat it. So if you've got good people, good friends

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with you. Then it's all good. You just run by

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crooks. It's a nice neighborhood run by the mob.

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It's run by the woke mob. But, I mean, geographically,

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you can't beat it. You could be at the ocean,

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and then you could be in the mountains in two

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hours. Yeah, yeah. Even if you don't partake,

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it's still cool. It still amps up the... Oh,

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yeah. Like the spot itself is magical. It is

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a magical place to live. Although I am deeply

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concerned that that motherfucker is going to

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get hit with a big one soon. It's about time,

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right? Yeah. I was reading this article about

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massive earthquakes in California and how often

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they're spread out and the possibility of one

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of them happening within the next decade. It's

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very high. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I try not to

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think about that. I try not to think about it,

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too. Yeah, yeah, but, you know, now there's,

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you know, you can, I think they have better detection

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of that stuff now, too. It's better. It doesn't

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matter. It doesn't matter. They can't detect.

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Do you remember what happened in Italy? A couple

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guys got arrested and went to jail. They were

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seismologists because the company, the country

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rather, didn't understand the ability to detect

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it. They had a big earthquake and a bunch of

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people died. And so they blamed these geologists

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or seismologists. They wound up winning in court

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on appeal. Because eventually the science was

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revealed. Like, hey, there's no fucking way you

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can really tell. But they hung these guys out.

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They blamed these guys on not being able to detect

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it. Man. Well, I mean, just think about it. The

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last crazy ones were 72 and then 94. Yeah. I

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think it was 93. I moved to L .A. right after

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the last big one. I saw one of the sections of

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the highway that had collapsed on the other one.

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I remember driving by going, fuck this place.

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I was in the middle of that one. I came into

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L .A. Oh, you were there? Dude, I don't even

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like to tell the story about what happened during

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that 94 earthquake because it sounds like bullshit.

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But literally, I got up, ran out of my house,

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my apartment at the time, jumped off the balcony

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and watched it happen. You watched the house

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collapse? I watched the earthquake happen from

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outside. Oh. It's like no bullshit. So I thought,

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oh, shit, I overreacted. I had a bad dream. I

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lived on the first floor of this apartment building.

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All I know is I wake up, I'm off balance, catching

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my balance in the parking lot, right? And like,

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oh, shoot, I got to find the guard to get me

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back in the apartment building, right? And I'm

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thinking, you know, like I've lost my mind or

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something. The next thing you know, everything

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shakes and the lights go out. Just everything

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gets black. And so. I'm backing, I retreat back

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because I'm thinking the building's going to

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fall on me. And I'm like, wait a minute. Then

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I got the story from everybody else that experienced

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it. They said that the first thing that happened

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was the building shook and the lights went out.

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Well, I was outside watching that. So I'm outside

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when it happened. Like some kind of canine. So

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what made you jump over the. I don't know. You

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had a feeling? Dude. Or did you have like the

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first, was it the first rumbles? I thought, I

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thought it was, I thought I reacted to the, like

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some kind of an aftershock or some kind of rumble.

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No, because the girl that was with me. You left

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her in the apartment? Dude. All she knows is

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that you jumped up and you ran out of. You ran

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out of the house and I heard the door slide.

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And then the next thing you know, everything

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shook. She was trapped in there because there

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was a closet door that trapped her in the hallway.

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So when I got back in the place, me and a friend

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had to try to pry the door open because she couldn't

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get out. But I ran out of that place. before

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the earthquake actually happened. How weird.

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Yeah. You got good instincts. I don't know what

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the hell that was. It has to be. I don't even

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like telling that story because it sounds like

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bullshit. Because it really happened that way.

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Then the guard, I talked to the guard. I'm like,

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hey, when did the lights go out? Oh, it shook

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and the lights went out. I'm like, I'm watching

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that happen. So you felt it happen before it

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happened. Some kind of weird way. Well, I bet

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humans have that. Animals definitely have that.

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They talk about Thailand, how they had that tsunami

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and all the animals ran up to the highest point

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of the island. They all just took off. It's like

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they just knew instinctively. I don't know. Nothing

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like that has ever happened afterwards. But I

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got to say, I've been lucky over the years. Yeah,

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but you're a dude who's tuned in. You're tuned

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into your body. You're tuned into your environment.

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You're not going to get caught slipping. Like,

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you probably felt something and your spidey sense

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went off. Yeah, I kind of have been like that

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growing up. Like, I've been on my own since I

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was 14. been through crazy shit that you normally

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would see on movies. And that's the type of shit

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that gives you those kind of instincts. But,

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yeah, and I was always the one that said, hey,

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let's leave. Let's get out of here. And then,

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hey, man, there was a shootout that just happened

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right after you left. Or I could detect, like,

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the predators. You know what I mean? Mm -hmm.

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So I grew up kind of that way. Right. Because

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you have to survive on that. With nobody looking

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out for you. Yeah. Nobody was looking out for

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you. You had to look out for yourself. Well,

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yeah, I mean, I was... Oh, I was like always

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the junior of the group a lot of times because,

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like I said, I've been on my own since I was

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14. I haven't grown an inch since I was 13, 14.

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I looked like a grown -ass man, right? I was

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fighting in tournaments at 15 against, you know,

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grown men, like, you know, fighting heavyweight

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at that time. But I was always hanging with older

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people, kind of, you know. Kind of like I got

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away with kind of living as an adult early on.

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Did you work? Yeah, well, I was teaching a karate

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class. What was happening, see, I used to hang

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out at this community center in the hood. At

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this time, I moved from Brooklyn to Bridgeport,

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Connecticut, right? Bridgeport's a tough name.

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Yeah, yeah. A lot of people don't know. Yeah,

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we had the top murder rate per capita, man. Bridgeport's

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rough. Oh, yeah, yeah. So I was constantly, I

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mean, there's a community center that was like

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my haven. And I would go practice with me and

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my other karate nuts, you know. And so I'd be

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in the paper for winning heavyweight competitions

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or whatever. And so the people that was running

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the community center said, why don't you teach

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a class? They thought I was an adult. Oh, that's

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hilarious. So I was teaching like a, you know,

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like kind of like just under the table. I was

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getting paid on the table, basically. But I had

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like close to 200 students early on, like when

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I'm 15, 16. Oh, that's crazy. Yeah. So, you know,

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it was kind of kind of a trip, you know, which

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is one of the reasons why I was a father at 15.

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You know, because I had. One of my students'

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older sister, you know, was like had a crush

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on her on his instructor. But I was kind of living

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the life of a grown up like early on. And so,

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you know, there's there's a faction of people

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in Bridgeport who think I'm Satan, I guess, because

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they think that I'm probably in my 70s. You're

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a vampire. Right. Yeah, so there's some people

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I had to admit, like, no, I wasn't the age you

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thought I was back then. Oh, that's crazy. Yeah,

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but I mean, so yeah, you know, one of the things

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I'm really grateful for is growing up that early

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and having to, you know, use my instincts. And

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being that street fighting and fighting was like

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my favorite thing to do, actually. And so when

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I got into the martial arts deeper and everything

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else, you know, I just really dug into it and

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wanted to learn style after style and this, you

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know, everything. I was just a martial art nerd

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for it. But I also liked the realistic portion

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of it, even though I was doing other styles like

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wushu and everything else. It was actually my

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haven. Somewhere Eddie Bravo has to find this

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video. There's a video of us working out together

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at Legends where we were talking about hopping

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sidekicks and different types of sidekicks. There

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was a bag that we had that had a shitty chain.

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But regardless, you threw a hopping sidekick

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on that chain and the chain snapped and went

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flying. The bag went flying. And Eddie Bravo

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was like, what the fuck? It's a funny video,

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man. Right, yeah. I know Eddie has it somewhere.

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I'll probably, I'll text him after this and try

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to see if he can put it up on his Instagram or

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something. Yeah, man. Yeah, back then, man, we

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were training when it wasn't even popular. You

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know, I used to see you in the gym all the time.

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Yeah. All the time, man. And you were, just think

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about this. Do you know it was 29 years ago the

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last time you interviewed me? Yeah, that's right.

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29 years ago. That Bob Costa show. He took a

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week off and I guest hosted it for a week. And

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at that time, you were already training with

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Maurice Smith. Yes. Maurice was one of the guests.

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Right. Because I ended up training with Maurice

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Smith every time I'd go to Seattle. We'd train

00:12:00.980 --> 00:12:05.149
together. So we're part of this kind of... karate,

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martial art, nerd culture. Yeah. When it wasn't

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even popular. No. I used to see you all the time.

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You know, you and... Doing jujitsu, Carl Parisian

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and all these guys, legends. Where was another

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place? There was Legends and there was another

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place. The Bomb Squad? Yes. The Bomb Squad was

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the first place that Eddie taught at. And then

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that place closed down. Then we went to Legends.

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Legends, yeah. And then we moved to the other

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Legends that was in more East LA. And then Eddie

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started opening up his own place in downtown.

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Yeah, yeah. And that's where I would train with

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Josh Barnett. at that place quite a bit. Yeah.

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Yeah, man. The old days. Yes, man. Yeah. Who

00:12:47.690 --> 00:12:50.289
would be coming through? Because I was training

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Bob Sapp at one time, and then that's how I got

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Frankie Lyles connected into that. Wow. That

00:12:57.850 --> 00:13:00.850
whole thing. I remember Frankie. Frankie used

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to be at the Bomb Squad first. Right, yeah. Frankie

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was like my best friend in the world, and he

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was, you know, he was super middleweight champion

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in the world. That's who got me deeply into boxing.

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And so I would always be at his training camps.

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And, you know, I got to train with, like, Tommy

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Hearns and all these amazing people. Sugar Ray

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and all these guys, man. Frankie's a great boxing

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coach. He's one of the most technical guys I've

00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:31.860
ever worked with. He analyzes every aspect of

00:13:31.860 --> 00:13:34.700
your jab. He's pulling in your elbow. He's tightening

00:13:34.700 --> 00:13:38.019
this. He's moving you here. He's showing all

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the various basic little tiny details that make

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all the difference in the world. Yeah, man. He

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was my personal boxing coach. I would train with

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him. Joe Goosen early on. But Frankie, I mean,

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we really kind of combined a lot of things. Because

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I started kind of teaching him things with the

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jab, like the un -telegraph type of stuff. And

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he started applying that. And he would bring

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me into stuff and have me show people like Sugar

00:14:14.289 --> 00:14:17.500
Ray. Like, Mike, explain this. And I'm like,

00:14:17.559 --> 00:14:19.440
what? I'm explaining this to Sugar Ray? This

00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:24.419
feels ridiculous, right? But it was like this

00:14:24.419 --> 00:14:27.179
combination because, like, I don't know. I'm

00:14:27.179 --> 00:14:30.419
very analytical, and I love technique, you know.

00:14:31.059 --> 00:14:34.320
And so I would just try to break things down,

00:14:34.399 --> 00:14:36.879
and my whole thing was always to pressure test

00:14:36.879 --> 00:14:40.679
things, you know. So if I could develop a tool

00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:44.100
or a skill, and you can't stop it even if I tell

00:14:44.100 --> 00:14:48.340
you, what I'm doing, then it's a really good

00:14:48.340 --> 00:14:52.059
technique. Then it's legit. The thing about no

00:14:52.059 --> 00:14:55.700
telegraph at all, it's so much more effective

00:14:55.700 --> 00:14:57.799
than a harder strike with a telegraph. Oh, God,

00:14:57.879 --> 00:15:00.059
yeah. Because it lands. Yeah. But it's so difficult

00:15:00.059 --> 00:15:01.700
to teach people that because everybody wants

00:15:01.700 --> 00:15:04.080
to hit everybody as hard as they can. Yeah. Especially

00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:06.519
if you have power. Your instinct is to fucking

00:15:06.519 --> 00:15:09.840
load up on everything. I remember I first saw

00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:12.379
you teaching that to Kimbo Slice. Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:15:12.519 --> 00:15:14.480
You were on a movie set. Yeah, yeah, because

00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:17.740
Kimbo. Oh, man, what a great guy. What a great

00:15:17.740 --> 00:15:19.840
guy he was. What a wonderful guy. So that's one

00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:22.820
thing about fighting. You can't hide your nature.

00:15:22.940 --> 00:15:25.440
You know what I mean? People see who you are.

00:15:25.460 --> 00:15:28.480
And he was a wonderful human being. But like

00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:31.960
a lot of people, almost like street basketball

00:15:31.960 --> 00:15:39.120
as opposed to professional, you miss out on certain

00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:42.200
techniques that you need when you're trying to

00:15:42.200 --> 00:15:45.480
step up. Right. And so, like... Well, Kimbo,

00:15:45.580 --> 00:15:47.519
you know, he would like a lot of people, he would

00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:50.759
kind of telegraph. And so when we were shooting

00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:56.600
the movie, you know, and I basically we had a

00:15:56.600 --> 00:15:59.299
cameraman that did not really know how to shoot

00:15:59.299 --> 00:16:01.620
stuff. So I just had to do everything on screen.

00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:06.039
And so I would I would I just wanted to make

00:16:06.039 --> 00:16:09.039
everything very realistic. And so so Kimbo had

00:16:09.039 --> 00:16:12.360
this rubber knife and I was like, try your best

00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:16.580
to. touch me with a rubber knife. And so he would

00:16:16.580 --> 00:16:21.019
try, but as soon as he would move, there'd be

00:16:21.019 --> 00:16:23.379
a little bit of an indication that I'd see, and

00:16:23.379 --> 00:16:25.960
then I'd throw the punch, and it would go really

00:16:25.960 --> 00:16:28.100
close to him, and I'd have him react to that.

00:16:28.519 --> 00:16:30.440
But he was going, wait a minute, how are you

00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:33.379
hitting me before I can get this knife out? And

00:16:33.379 --> 00:16:35.639
then I told him, you know, I'll show you what

00:16:35.639 --> 00:16:38.080
that is later, because, you know, kind of like,

00:16:38.139 --> 00:16:41.519
not to be real nerdish about it, but like, why?

00:16:42.330 --> 00:16:45.370
Why are like 50 - and 60 -year -old trainers

00:16:45.370 --> 00:16:49.269
meeting people's hands, like a 20 -year -old

00:16:49.269 --> 00:16:52.590
guy's or contender's hands, like this? You see

00:16:52.590 --> 00:16:56.070
the person with the pad moving just as much as

00:16:56.070 --> 00:16:58.210
the other guy because there's an indication.

00:16:58.470 --> 00:17:02.590
They do this beforehand. They're always kind

00:17:02.590 --> 00:17:06.049
of flexing and going in reverse before they go

00:17:06.049 --> 00:17:11.440
forward. So just for over years, I— wouldn't

00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:15.019
do that and I would exploit that you know so

00:17:15.019 --> 00:17:17.259
it's kind of like a cheat code that I'm like

00:17:17.259 --> 00:17:18.839
hell what the hell what the hell I'm gonna do

00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:23.099
with it I'm I'm an actor so my thing is just

00:17:23.099 --> 00:17:25.420
like yourself when I see you you know with George

00:17:25.420 --> 00:17:28.640
St. Pierre and how we're all always in the gym

00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:32.079
we're you know we're kind of collaborating we're

00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:34.559
you know we're we're it's about just getting

00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:37.240
better not no ego or anything else like that

00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:40.130
it's just like hey man we're like kind of Kind

00:17:40.130 --> 00:17:44.160
of like jamming. On technique and getting better.

00:17:44.299 --> 00:17:46.079
Well, especially if you're running into someone

00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:48.400
who has a different style. Yeah. Because there's

00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:50.579
always something in different styles that you

00:17:50.579 --> 00:17:52.480
could take out of it. Absolutely. There's always

00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:54.900
something. And we're seeing that now. There's

00:17:54.900 --> 00:17:57.180
all these different martial artists that are

00:17:57.180 --> 00:17:59.980
entering into MMA that have these different techniques

00:17:59.980 --> 00:18:02.619
that people haven't seen before. And there's

00:18:02.619 --> 00:18:04.740
a lot of them that people dismiss that you're

00:18:04.740 --> 00:18:07.119
finding are very effective. Especially if you

00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:09.140
don't know how to do them. You don't know what

00:18:09.140 --> 00:18:12.029
they are. So you don't. You have. like a database

00:18:12.029 --> 00:18:15.769
in your mind of movements like I'm sure you see

00:18:15.769 --> 00:18:18.150
one of guys loading up on a spin oh yeah everybody

00:18:18.150 --> 00:18:20.170
sees that but if you don't know that you don't

00:18:20.170 --> 00:18:23.650
see it right and if you if you were loading up

00:18:23.650 --> 00:18:26.769
then you're not gonna you're not gonna capitalize

00:18:26.769 --> 00:18:29.410
on it right because you don't you know you're

00:18:29.410 --> 00:18:31.710
taking it there's a millisecond that you're taking

00:18:31.710 --> 00:18:34.480
because Your movement is not efficient. This

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that still to this day people aren't doing effectively

00:19:18.900 --> 00:19:21.099
when someone loads up because you can see the

00:19:21.099 --> 00:19:24.000
load up. And it's just a jam. It's just lifting

00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:26.240
your foot up and putting it on the hips. And

00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:29.000
it's super effective in Taekwondo because everybody's

00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:30.980
fast. Everybody's trying to do that technique.

00:19:31.140 --> 00:19:33.740
But that jam of just lifting your foot up and

00:19:33.740 --> 00:19:35.680
just not trying to hit them hard, just putting

00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:38.160
that foot on the hip, it fucks people up. And

00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:40.359
I don't see anybody using that right now. I tell

00:19:40.359 --> 00:19:44.650
you, man, as in life. there's always something

00:19:44.650 --> 00:19:48.390
that you can gain. People want to, I don't know,

00:19:48.490 --> 00:19:50.670
people are in their own egos a lot of times.

00:19:50.930 --> 00:19:55.630
But, like, even wushu, me, it was hard as hell

00:19:55.630 --> 00:19:58.230
for me doing wushu against guys half my size.

00:19:58.470 --> 00:20:01.710
It's not against, but it's a performance thing.

00:20:01.890 --> 00:20:05.829
Right. But if I can do all, if I can go to these

00:20:05.829 --> 00:20:12.250
very hard techniques of, like, I got to get down

00:20:12.250 --> 00:20:15.759
to the... Floor and I got to – Body mastery.

00:20:16.019 --> 00:20:19.480
Yeah. At my size. Right. Well, then I'm better.

00:20:19.539 --> 00:20:21.680
So if I want to kick you in the eyebrow, I can.

00:20:21.980 --> 00:20:26.380
Right. Because it's about, you know, having my

00:20:26.380 --> 00:20:28.579
body do what my mind is telling it to. Right.

00:20:28.740 --> 00:20:30.579
And so – but, of course, people want to dismiss

00:20:30.579 --> 00:20:32.880
it because, oh, that ain't real. You can't use

00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:35.720
it. Yeah. Good. Yeah. Just like ballet is hard

00:20:35.720 --> 00:20:38.180
as hell. You can't use that either. But anybody,

00:20:38.519 --> 00:20:41.700
any heavyweight who put themselves through ballet

00:20:41.700 --> 00:20:45.609
– would be a better fighter. 100%. Look at Lomachenko.

00:20:45.769 --> 00:20:49.289
Yeah. His dad taught him Ukrainian dance. Lomachenko's

00:20:49.289 --> 00:20:51.529
dad pulled him out of boxing for two years when

00:20:51.529 --> 00:20:53.289
he was young and said, you're just going to do

00:20:53.289 --> 00:20:55.730
Ukrainian dance. Yeah. He's like, what the fuck

00:20:55.730 --> 00:20:57.869
am I doing? But look at that guy's footwork.

00:20:57.950 --> 00:21:01.509
Exactly. Exactly. So it's just that as in life,

00:21:01.589 --> 00:21:04.089
man, I don't look at anything from one group

00:21:04.089 --> 00:21:07.970
and just discard any other stuff. I used to when

00:21:07.970 --> 00:21:10.130
I was young. Yeah. When I was young, I was pretty

00:21:10.130 --> 00:21:11.930
arrogant about certain things. I thought forms

00:21:11.930 --> 00:21:13.910
were stupid. All I wanted to do was spar and

00:21:13.910 --> 00:21:16.269
hit the bag. Then as I got older, I realized,

00:21:16.390 --> 00:21:18.109
oh, there's a lot of wisdom in all this shit.

00:21:18.250 --> 00:21:21.849
Oh, absolutely. Like I say, I try to apply that

00:21:21.849 --> 00:21:25.710
to life, period. I never look at anything from

00:21:25.710 --> 00:21:29.089
one perspective. I grew up in the hood, and my

00:21:29.089 --> 00:21:34.250
favorite band is freaking the Eagles. Really?

00:21:34.750 --> 00:21:39.650
Yeah. I'm listening to Jody Mitchell and people

00:21:39.650 --> 00:21:41.910
are like, what are you doing listening? I'm like,

00:21:41.970 --> 00:21:44.369
what the fuck? You know, this is my life, man.

00:21:44.430 --> 00:21:48.950
Fuck you. You hear these lyrics? You hear Jody

00:21:48.950 --> 00:21:51.190
Mitchell's lyrics, man? What the fuck? That's

00:21:51.190 --> 00:21:53.869
all for me, too. I mean, I'm just as passionate

00:21:53.869 --> 00:21:56.950
about, you know, Aerosmith as I am about the

00:21:56.950 --> 00:22:01.829
Isley Brothers. But I've never looked at life

00:22:01.829 --> 00:22:06.230
as I have to think in this parameter. You know,

00:22:06.269 --> 00:22:08.589
I've got to be marginalized. That's that's just

00:22:08.589 --> 00:22:11.569
man. Come on. It's such a waste of life. It is.

00:22:11.589 --> 00:22:14.609
It's all for you, man. So I agree with with the

00:22:14.609 --> 00:22:16.509
martial arts and everything else. I look at every

00:22:16.509 --> 00:22:19.589
martial art just like everything else. Everything

00:22:19.589 --> 00:22:21.869
has something to contribute. Yeah. Just like

00:22:21.869 --> 00:22:24.029
all people have something to contribute. Even

00:22:24.029 --> 00:22:27.230
an idiot. You can learn from an idiot. You can.

00:22:27.730 --> 00:22:30.250
A lot of idiots say wise things occasionally.

00:22:30.250 --> 00:22:34.250
Yeah. Because everybody's going to have a quotient

00:22:34.250 --> 00:22:38.819
of. of legitimacy. Mm -hmm. You know, maybe it

00:22:38.819 --> 00:22:42.039
may be 20 % and they don't see the 80%. Right.

00:22:42.220 --> 00:22:44.420
But until you acknowledge that 20%, they're not

00:22:44.420 --> 00:22:46.140
going to hear you. Right. You know what I mean?

00:22:46.180 --> 00:22:48.380
So that's the thing. It's like, man, we're on

00:22:48.380 --> 00:22:51.579
this planet and one of the things I, man, I don't

00:22:51.579 --> 00:22:53.579
envy a whole lot of people, but I do, dude, I

00:22:53.579 --> 00:22:57.900
do envy you because you get to expand your world.

00:22:57.960 --> 00:23:01.619
You talk to so many interesting people and that's,

00:23:01.619 --> 00:23:04.700
I mean, what a great thing. What a great thing

00:23:04.700 --> 00:23:08.309
to just, have all these type of perspectives

00:23:08.309 --> 00:23:11.289
and all that coming through. And I got to say,

00:23:11.309 --> 00:23:13.609
man, I'm super proud of you because I know you

00:23:13.609 --> 00:23:15.730
as Joe from the gym and look what you've done,

00:23:15.890 --> 00:23:18.710
man. Thank you. Man, it's like that's a shot

00:23:18.710 --> 00:23:20.690
in the arm because it's like people that you

00:23:20.690 --> 00:23:23.910
like and seeing them prosper. That's cool as

00:23:23.910 --> 00:23:26.609
shit. Yeah, I've learned a lot, man. And I didn't

00:23:26.609 --> 00:23:28.950
expect to. When we first started doing this,

00:23:28.990 --> 00:23:31.069
it was just for fun. We'd just get together with

00:23:31.069 --> 00:23:33.109
our friends. But you knew what you wanted to

00:23:33.109 --> 00:23:35.849
do, man. You were pretty damn clear. Do you remember

00:23:35.849 --> 00:23:38.490
this? You remember me coming to, I think it was

00:23:38.490 --> 00:23:42.410
the Ice House? In Pasadena? No, no, no. Oh, shoot.

00:23:42.470 --> 00:23:45.269
It wasn't Ice House. It was in Orange County.

00:23:45.910 --> 00:23:48.390
Comedy Magic Club, maybe? I came to see you perform,

00:23:48.549 --> 00:23:53.900
and I offered you. The role in Blood and Bone.

00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:57.440
Do you remember that at all? I do. Yeah, I do

00:23:57.440 --> 00:24:00.339
now. Yeah, okay. Because Blood and Bone, which

00:24:00.339 --> 00:24:04.259
is like actually Sony's most successful non -theatrical,

00:24:04.420 --> 00:24:11.119
that was basically a kind of reimagining of hard

00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:15.440
times with Charles Bronson and James Colburn.

00:24:15.940 --> 00:24:19.480
Great movie. Yes, well. That role was basically

00:24:19.480 --> 00:24:21.700
that I was offering you was the James Colburn

00:24:21.700 --> 00:24:25.539
role. Right. And but you were so you was dead.

00:24:25.740 --> 00:24:28.619
I don't want to do this acting stuff. I want

00:24:28.619 --> 00:24:30.839
to do I want to focus on what I you know, your

00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:34.140
interest, which was, you know, you stand up and

00:24:34.140 --> 00:24:36.880
you you're getting together. I mean, I know you

00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:40.259
and Eddie were doing like kind of the early podcast

00:24:40.259 --> 00:24:42.759
type of stuff and whatever. And I'm like, man,

00:24:42.940 --> 00:24:45.000
you know, you really kind of knew what you wanted

00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:48.500
to do. Well, the thing about acting is, I mean,

00:24:48.500 --> 00:24:51.720
I admire it, especially good acting, but it takes

00:24:51.720 --> 00:24:54.480
a lot of time out of your day. It's a 16 -hour

00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:59.559
day. It's a long day, and it will take away from

00:24:59.559 --> 00:25:01.779
other things you do. And I saw that with a lot

00:25:01.779 --> 00:25:04.200
of comics that they started doing acting, and

00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:06.119
it would take away from their act because they

00:25:06.119 --> 00:25:08.240
really couldn't go and do sets every night. They

00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:10.740
couldn't really polish their material. You could

00:25:10.740 --> 00:25:14.730
see stuff getting a little clunkier. You got

00:25:14.730 --> 00:25:17.009
to focus. You got to find the things you enjoy

00:25:17.009 --> 00:25:19.990
and focus on them. Yeah, that's why I say I'm

00:25:19.990 --> 00:25:22.970
so proud of just being there and seeing what

00:25:22.970 --> 00:25:27.490
you did. You being a part of the UFC when it

00:25:27.490 --> 00:25:29.920
was nothing promised. You know what I mean? And

00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:31.900
not only was it not promised, but people looked

00:25:31.900 --> 00:25:34.200
at you like you were doing like snuff films or

00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:36.640
something. Exactly. They looked like I remember

00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:38.880
the early days. Dana White always says there's

00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:40.599
people who talk to you like you're doing porn

00:25:40.599 --> 00:25:42.880
or something. Right, right. Like I was on news

00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:46.420
radio, the sitcom on NBC, and I was doing commentary

00:25:46.420 --> 00:25:48.480
where I was doing post -fight interviews for

00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:50.519
the UFC. And they were like, why are you doing

00:25:50.519 --> 00:25:53.119
this? Why are you flying to Alabama and doing?

00:25:53.559 --> 00:25:56.140
Cage fights. See, this is what movies are. Good

00:25:56.140 --> 00:25:58.380
movies are made of shit like this. You know,

00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:02.559
and somebody just out of their spirit doing what

00:26:02.559 --> 00:26:05.880
they want to do with no promise of anything.

00:26:06.509 --> 00:26:08.990
And then accomplishing something. So, you know,

00:26:09.009 --> 00:26:12.269
kudos, man. Seriously, man. Well, for me, and

00:26:12.269 --> 00:26:14.470
I'm sure for you as well, when we were young,

00:26:14.609 --> 00:26:16.509
there was always a question, what is the best

00:26:16.509 --> 00:26:19.970
style? Is it Kyokushin? Is it Judo? Is it Kung

00:26:19.970 --> 00:26:22.170
Fu? What is it? What's the best style? And no

00:26:22.170 --> 00:26:24.450
one really knew. I mean, Benny the Jet fought

00:26:24.450 --> 00:26:27.990
in a bunch of those no -rules fights early on,

00:26:28.190 --> 00:26:30.170
but they never really took off. There wasn't

00:26:30.170 --> 00:26:32.970
a lot of those. And Benny was obviously a very

00:26:32.970 --> 00:26:35.980
special fighter. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he was one of

00:26:35.980 --> 00:26:38.119
my teachers, too. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I trained at

00:26:38.119 --> 00:26:40.920
his gym. He was on the podcast with Blinky, Blinky

00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:43.579
Rodriguez. Right, right, right, yeah. And I told

00:26:43.579 --> 00:26:45.140
them, I said, when I came to L .A., there was

00:26:45.140 --> 00:26:46.579
two places I had to go. I had to go to the Comedy

00:26:46.579 --> 00:26:48.799
Store and I had to go to the Jet Center. I had

00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:50.099
to go to the Jet Center. Yeah, yeah. And I was

00:26:50.099 --> 00:26:53.359
there in 94 right before it went under because

00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:56.779
the earthquake damaged the roof. Exactly, yeah.

00:26:56.779 --> 00:26:58.339
And so when the rainy season came. On Friar Street,

00:26:58.339 --> 00:26:59.759
right? Yeah, yeah. It was on Friar Street. Yep,

00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:01.799
yep, yep. Right down from the Goossens. Yep.

00:27:01.880 --> 00:27:05.900
Yeah. Yeah, right down. Yeah. And that was an

00:27:05.900 --> 00:27:07.599
honor, man, to be able to train in that gym.

00:27:07.700 --> 00:27:09.279
That was incredible. It was an incredible place.

00:27:09.279 --> 00:27:12.019
Oh, yeah, yeah. I used to be there. Yeah. Yeah,

00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:15.539
man. Those were some great times because, I mean,

00:27:15.559 --> 00:27:19.440
I connect with Benny because when I was in Bridgeport,

00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:23.920
my instructor, Matty Malisi, went to California

00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:26.380
and started training with Benny. Oh, wow. Early

00:27:26.380 --> 00:27:29.880
on. So he put that on the map about. Coming to

00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:31.779
the Mecca and training with Benny. It was the

00:27:31.779 --> 00:27:35.059
Mecca. For kickboxing, especially in the 90s,

00:27:35.059 --> 00:27:36.599
that was the Mecca. You had to go to the Jets

00:27:36.599 --> 00:27:38.000
Center. Everyone talked about the Jets Center.

00:27:38.140 --> 00:27:40.420
Yeah, man, that was classic. So we were always

00:27:40.420 --> 00:27:42.880
wondering, like, what is the style? What's the

00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:45.220
best style? And then the UFC came along. I'm

00:27:45.220 --> 00:27:47.740
like, oh, my God, they did it. They did it. They

00:27:47.740 --> 00:27:49.660
figured it out. They put it all together. And

00:27:49.660 --> 00:27:51.740
for a while, it was jiu -jitsu because nobody

00:27:51.740 --> 00:27:53.680
understood jiu -jitsu. And Hoyce Gracie was just

00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:57.200
running shit. Whoa. You know how that was kind

00:27:57.200 --> 00:27:59.019
of set up a little bit. It was a little set up.

00:27:59.019 --> 00:28:00.799
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, I mean, look, he had some

00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:03.160
challenges. Like Ken Shamrock was a beast. Oh,

00:28:03.180 --> 00:28:04.880
yeah. He had some really good fighters he was

00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:07.039
facing against. Kimbo Slice. I mean, excuse me,

00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:11.039
not Kimbo Slice. Not Kimo. Kimo, sorry. Kimo

00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:13.099
was fucking huge. He was a big dude, but, you

00:28:13.099 --> 00:28:17.220
know, he didn't really. It was a 100 -pound advantage.

00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:20.619
Yeah. He had 100 pounds over a hoist. The Gracies

00:28:20.619 --> 00:28:23.509
were smart. They were very smart at that time

00:28:23.509 --> 00:28:25.990
in knowing, you know, the right people to kind

00:28:25.990 --> 00:28:27.569
of pick at that time. Because, you know, there

00:28:27.569 --> 00:28:30.809
was some killers out there. There were some killers

00:28:30.809 --> 00:28:33.210
out there. Yeah, they definitely set it up, especially

00:28:33.210 --> 00:28:36.670
the early ones. But it's also, it's like... You

00:28:36.670 --> 00:28:40.589
know, it was good for us to see a guy like Hoyce

00:28:40.589 --> 00:28:44.589
who wasn't jacked. He was a slender guy who weighed

00:28:44.589 --> 00:28:47.690
175 pounds, and he was strangling everybody and

00:28:47.690 --> 00:28:50.450
armbarring everybody. It was wild to see when

00:28:50.450 --> 00:28:53.289
he beat Dan Severin. Dan Severin was 260 pounds,

00:28:53.450 --> 00:28:55.769
and Hoyce tapped him off his back with a triangle.

00:28:56.069 --> 00:29:00.470
Man, what a story. That put jiu -jitsu on the

00:29:00.470 --> 00:29:02.349
map. On the map big time. But, you know, one

00:29:02.349 --> 00:29:03.890
thing that always broke my heart is people never

00:29:03.890 --> 00:29:07.589
knew about Hickson. Right. Oh, my God. I know.

00:29:07.950 --> 00:29:12.569
That dude. Yeah. That cat was like, I always

00:29:12.569 --> 00:29:14.890
considered him like pound for pound the best

00:29:14.890 --> 00:29:19.250
because he had this, not only, you know, jujitsu

00:29:19.250 --> 00:29:22.809
skills, but just his concentration. Yeah. And

00:29:22.809 --> 00:29:26.829
he was almost like, you know, hypnotic. Right.

00:29:26.890 --> 00:29:30.720
You know what I mean? And just no waste of. None.

00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:33.779
Just unbelievable. What an amazing person to

00:29:33.779 --> 00:29:36.579
watch. I would encourage anybody to pull up his

00:29:36.579 --> 00:29:39.900
fight. Talk about David versus Goliath stuff.

00:29:40.039 --> 00:29:41.980
Oh, yeah. Another great example of cross -training,

00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:44.519
too, because Hickson got really into yoga. And

00:29:44.519 --> 00:29:45.859
everybody's like, what the fuck are you doing

00:29:45.859 --> 00:29:48.980
yoga? Like, yoga's for girls, right? Hickson

00:29:48.980 --> 00:29:52.440
got really into yoga and got super flexible and

00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:55.839
really good at controlling his breathing. Oh,

00:29:55.839 --> 00:29:58.359
yeah, yeah. And never got tired. Yeah, you saw

00:29:58.359 --> 00:30:02.549
him in the Hulk? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:30:02.609 --> 00:30:05.630
Yeah. It's something, man. Talk about a legend.

00:30:05.750 --> 00:30:08.650
Oh, real legend. Yeah. Yeah, man. Well, Hickson,

00:30:08.730 --> 00:30:11.109
there's a video of him and he did this multiple

00:30:11.109 --> 00:30:13.849
times where he would go to these gyms and he

00:30:13.849 --> 00:30:17.950
would teach a seminar, like a long seminar, and

00:30:17.950 --> 00:30:20.829
then roll with all the black belts and just tap

00:30:20.829 --> 00:30:24.700
them one after the other. World champions. Guys

00:30:24.700 --> 00:30:26.640
that just didn't understand what was going on.

00:30:26.700 --> 00:30:29.039
Like, how is this happening? Oh, yeah. Like,

00:30:29.079 --> 00:30:32.339
Paulo Filho, when he was a WEC world champion,

00:30:32.420 --> 00:30:36.519
and he had won the Mundials, I believe. He had

00:30:36.519 --> 00:30:39.859
won multiple jiu -jitsu championships. And he

00:30:39.859 --> 00:30:42.079
trained with Hickson, and he's like, man, it's

00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:44.380
true. He goes, I can't believe it. He goes, that

00:30:44.380 --> 00:30:46.539
guy treated me like I didn't even belong in there.

00:30:46.599 --> 00:30:49.720
It was crazy. And Hickson, by that time, was

00:30:49.720 --> 00:30:53.539
probably like 40. And he's still just dominating

00:30:53.539 --> 00:30:56.880
guys on the mat and effortless. It wasn't strength.

00:30:57.079 --> 00:31:00.039
It was just pure technique and movement. Basics

00:31:00.039 --> 00:31:04.180
and just mastering of basics. Oh, basics. It

00:31:04.180 --> 00:31:08.299
was like there's no Barambolos and no X -Guards.

00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:11.500
Nothing crazy. Everything he did is like jujitsu

00:31:11.500 --> 00:31:17.700
101, but to a masterful, masterful degree. Yeah.

00:31:17.819 --> 00:31:20.000
It was incredible. And telling people that, you

00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:22.019
know, because everybody knows Hoist. And I'm

00:31:22.019 --> 00:31:24.799
like, you guys don't know who his big brother

00:31:24.799 --> 00:31:28.099
is. He would openly say that my brother is 10

00:31:28.099 --> 00:31:30.200
times better than me. Right, yeah. Yeah. So,

00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:33.500
you know, that really put – and I love jujitsu

00:31:33.500 --> 00:31:38.680
because it's held up the tradition. that martial

00:31:38.680 --> 00:31:41.680
arts, so much of karate lost because it became

00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:44.539
a business. And people would just, you know,

00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:47.539
put their time in and pay for their black belts.

00:31:47.619 --> 00:31:49.779
Right. And it just watered it down. Right. And

00:31:49.779 --> 00:31:51.460
all these people running around saying that they're

00:31:51.460 --> 00:31:55.460
master this and, you know, grand whatever and

00:31:55.460 --> 00:31:58.900
all these made -up things. It's like, oh, yeah,

00:31:58.940 --> 00:32:02.940
the guy's a master in an Asian martial art. That's

00:32:02.940 --> 00:32:06.759
an English word. You know what I mean? How did

00:32:06.759 --> 00:32:10.839
master sneak its way into it? But anyway, but,

00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:14.480
you know, male ego. Well, the thing about martial

00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:17.319
arts other than jujitsu is when you're sparring,

00:32:17.420 --> 00:32:20.200
it's very controlled. Like a lot of karate sparring

00:32:20.200 --> 00:32:22.440
is very controlled. A lot of Taekwondo sparring

00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:24.720
is very controlled. But in jujitsu, the beautiful

00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:28.039
thing about grappling is you know how good everybody

00:32:28.039 --> 00:32:31.519
is because they all spar. They're all rolling

00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:33.539
with each other. And they essentially go in full

00:32:33.539 --> 00:32:36.670
blast until the tackle. Yeah. And so there's

00:32:36.670 --> 00:32:39.410
no hiding. There's no hiding your skill. Yeah,

00:32:39.430 --> 00:32:41.650
I love what Eddie Bravo used to say. Basically,

00:32:41.710 --> 00:32:45.150
when you won, I killed you. Yeah, yeah. I just

00:32:45.150 --> 00:32:49.049
killed you. Yeah. So that's like, wow, that is

00:32:49.049 --> 00:32:51.829
a trip because it actually works out that way.

00:32:51.950 --> 00:32:54.130
Oh, yeah. If he gets you in a triangle and you

00:32:54.130 --> 00:32:56.809
tap, it's because you were about to go to sleep.

00:32:56.809 --> 00:32:58.670
Yes. And once you're asleep, you can just stomp

00:32:58.670 --> 00:33:00.430
your head into a pancake. Yeah, yeah. You're

00:33:00.430 --> 00:33:02.690
done. Yeah, just hold on to that triangle and

00:33:02.690 --> 00:33:04.299
then you never wake up. Yeah, whatever. a humbling

00:33:04.299 --> 00:33:08.210
thing. Yeah. Yeah. Very humbling. Yeah. And what's

00:33:08.210 --> 00:33:10.390
really humbling is how quickly someone could

00:33:10.390 --> 00:33:11.730
do it to you when you don't know what you're

00:33:11.730 --> 00:33:14.569
doing. Like that was shocking to me because I

00:33:14.569 --> 00:33:16.950
had all this martial arts experience and I first

00:33:16.950 --> 00:33:19.049
started training. I was like, what's someone

00:33:19.049 --> 00:33:20.589
going to do to me? I wrestled in high school.

00:33:20.609 --> 00:33:23.230
I'm strong. I'm fast. I know how to fight. I

00:33:23.230 --> 00:33:26.289
just got manhandled over and over and over again.

00:33:26.349 --> 00:33:28.470
Oh, yeah. This is ridiculous. Yeah. See that.

00:33:28.509 --> 00:33:32.190
But kudos because a lot of people, because if

00:33:32.190 --> 00:33:35.690
you got an egotistical thing going. and you get

00:33:35.690 --> 00:33:41.150
your little, I don't know, your comfort because

00:33:41.150 --> 00:33:42.630
you got your black belt and all that kind of

00:33:42.630 --> 00:33:46.950
stuff, that means jack nothing. Everybody I know

00:33:46.950 --> 00:33:50.470
who continues and really to learn real fighting

00:33:50.470 --> 00:33:54.410
knows when you had a boxer beat the hell out

00:33:54.410 --> 00:33:57.170
of you and you go, oh, wait, there's a lot of

00:33:57.170 --> 00:33:59.329
this stuff I got to toss out the window. Yeah.

00:33:59.670 --> 00:34:02.210
Because, I mean, I never forget times where,

00:34:02.289 --> 00:34:05.640
you know, like... A wrestler gets to me or a

00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:08.599
boxer, like, pieces me up, like, early on. I'm

00:34:08.599 --> 00:34:11.579
like, no, I got to learn this. Oh, yeah. Yeah,

00:34:11.579 --> 00:34:14.980
yeah. I went through several of those. I went

00:34:14.980 --> 00:34:16.380
through one of them in high school because I

00:34:16.380 --> 00:34:19.159
had a friend in high school. that was a wrestler

00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:21.820
and uh i didn't think anything of wrestling i'm

00:34:21.820 --> 00:34:24.159
like that's not even a martial art and then we

00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:25.800
wrestled on the grass one day and he just took

00:34:25.800 --> 00:34:28.239
me down at will yeah i was like this is ridiculous

00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:30.760
yeah he was pinning me down i couldn't i couldn't

00:34:30.760 --> 00:34:33.420
move i couldn't get up i'm like this is stunning

00:34:33.420 --> 00:34:37.099
right i thought i'm strong yeah i thought i could

00:34:37.099 --> 00:34:39.099
move i thought i'll be able to get out of the

00:34:39.099 --> 00:34:42.559
way no not i had no chance yeah he wasn't even

00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:44.920
a great wrestler he was just a decent wrestler

00:34:44.920 --> 00:34:47.039
yeah he just humbled me over and over and over

00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:49.380
again so then i started wrestling and then when

00:34:49.380 --> 00:34:52.320
I got into Taekwondo I thought I'm really good

00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:54.559
at Taekwondo I was competing on a national level

00:34:54.559 --> 00:34:56.539
I won the state championships four years in a

00:34:56.539 --> 00:34:59.019
row I was fucking people up and then I remember

00:34:59.019 --> 00:35:02.179
the first time I boxed with a really good amateur

00:35:02.179 --> 00:35:05.780
boxer I was like oh lord And this kid was like

00:35:05.780 --> 00:35:10.000
18 years old. And he went on as a kid. His name

00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:12.860
is Dana Rosenblatt. He went on to become New

00:35:12.860 --> 00:35:15.400
England middleweight champion. He beat Vinny

00:35:15.400 --> 00:35:19.420
Pazienza. He beat Howard Davis Jr. as a professional.

00:35:19.579 --> 00:35:21.400
He was a really good boxer. Yeah, he had to be.

00:35:21.869 --> 00:35:24.809
But he was kickboxing at the time and I was going

00:35:24.809 --> 00:35:26.989
to get into kickboxing. And so I was sparring

00:35:26.989 --> 00:35:28.750
with him. But when I was boxing with him, I was

00:35:28.750 --> 00:35:31.489
just getting lit up. I was like, oh. And then

00:35:31.489 --> 00:35:33.929
also when we're kickboxing, the moment he got

00:35:33.929 --> 00:35:36.269
close to me, I was in trouble. Right. I was like,

00:35:36.329 --> 00:35:39.789
oh, no. Like Taekwondo had too many flaws. Exactly.

00:35:39.789 --> 00:35:41.829
The hand techniques. So I had gone through that.

00:35:41.969 --> 00:35:44.329
And so then I thought, OK, well, now I understand

00:35:44.329 --> 00:35:47.139
kickboxing. Then I met a dude who went to Thailand

00:35:47.139 --> 00:35:49.039
a bunch of times and was training Muay Thai and

00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:50.760
fighting over there. And then I started learning

00:35:50.760 --> 00:35:53.719
leg kicks. I'm like, well, oh, good Lord. Now

00:35:53.719 --> 00:35:56.119
all they have to do is kick my legs? I didn't

00:35:56.119 --> 00:35:58.679
even think of that. And then I started really

00:35:58.679 --> 00:36:02.010
paying attention to... wka fights like the old

00:36:02.010 --> 00:36:04.829
dennis alexio days don the dragon wilson it was

00:36:04.829 --> 00:36:07.829
like leg kicks leg kicks are everything oh my

00:36:07.829 --> 00:36:09.690
goodness yeah and then i'm like okay well now

00:36:09.690 --> 00:36:11.949
i got a solid foundation i understand how to

00:36:11.949 --> 00:36:13.889
fight and then i started getting jiu -jitsu like

00:36:13.889 --> 00:36:17.710
oh no back to square one yeah i'm getting raped

00:36:17.710 --> 00:36:22.210
i was just getting mauled on the mats but i'd

00:36:22.210 --> 00:36:24.750
been through that so many times and restarted

00:36:24.750 --> 00:36:27.130
so many times i was like well it's time to learn

00:36:27.130 --> 00:36:30.099
this now yeah that's that's what I'm saying is

00:36:30.099 --> 00:36:33.239
everything has something to teach you and you

00:36:33.239 --> 00:36:35.679
know even though there's that there's a martial

00:36:35.679 --> 00:36:38.360
art there's a fantasy world which is I look at

00:36:38.360 --> 00:36:40.920
it as hilarious you know there's this you know

00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:46.400
I don't know there's sometimes I would say it

00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:50.199
like this like with martial arts is the Dunning

00:36:50.199 --> 00:36:53.820
-Kruger effect in the largest way possible because

00:36:53.820 --> 00:36:56.880
everybody out there has an opinion of martial

00:36:56.880 --> 00:36:59.309
arts though very few people really know what

00:36:59.309 --> 00:37:02.949
it is. They want to look at the movies and everything,

00:37:03.070 --> 00:37:05.469
and they really want to believe that. They want

00:37:05.469 --> 00:37:09.690
to believe that this guy who kicks in the air

00:37:09.690 --> 00:37:11.849
and all that kind of stuff will be able to beat

00:37:11.849 --> 00:37:15.909
a champion. And in a way, hey, I benefit from

00:37:15.909 --> 00:37:18.909
that to some degree because they think that about

00:37:18.909 --> 00:37:23.690
me. But even though I'm comfortable fighting

00:37:23.690 --> 00:37:26.849
and I love to, I mean, I just love. fighting

00:37:26.849 --> 00:37:30.409
against anybody. But you've had actual competition

00:37:30.409 --> 00:37:32.349
experience, like a lot of competition experience.

00:37:32.630 --> 00:37:37.030
Yeah, but my best experience is with like, I

00:37:37.030 --> 00:37:40.650
got the chance to train against champions at

00:37:40.650 --> 00:37:43.690
their place, you know, when they're at their

00:37:43.690 --> 00:37:45.869
best. And it's not an ego thing. It's just like,

00:37:45.969 --> 00:37:50.750
I love to be able to test myself. And I mean,

00:37:50.769 --> 00:37:54.510
because I'm my biggest competition. And so that

00:37:54.510 --> 00:37:57.760
whole thing about, And just what the bow means

00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:01.380
to me is, like, thank you for making me better.

00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:06.199
Right. By providing me an obstacle. And the higher,

00:38:06.340 --> 00:38:09.079
you know, the better the person, the better I

00:38:09.079 --> 00:38:13.000
can become. 100%. And so I loved it. So I, you

00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:15.360
know, for years I'm in there with Gokhan Saki

00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:19.880
and, you know, Maurice Smith and, you know, you

00:38:19.880 --> 00:38:25.559
name it. I've gotten. I consider myself one of

00:38:25.559 --> 00:38:28.619
the luckiest martial artists on the planet because

00:38:28.619 --> 00:38:31.159
I get to train with so many people. Sometimes

00:38:31.159 --> 00:38:35.780
at my house and I've got all these former champions

00:38:35.780 --> 00:38:39.860
training. Rampage, when he was champion, I'd

00:38:39.860 --> 00:38:44.239
go to his place. And honestly, like, the things

00:38:44.239 --> 00:38:47.139
I brag about is when I get humbled, you know,

00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:49.460
because that's when I learn something. For sure.

00:38:49.739 --> 00:38:52.440
My philosophy is I love to be wrong because every

00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:54.340
time I'm wrong, I learn something. Absolutely.

00:38:54.400 --> 00:38:57.900
And so, like, some of the best times for me is,

00:38:57.920 --> 00:39:00.920
like, I know when I was, you know, Michael Bisping

00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:04.519
was getting ready to fight George St. Pierre.

00:39:05.070 --> 00:39:06.730
And we were in Thailand. I was like, yeah, you

00:39:06.730 --> 00:39:09.530
know, let's mix it up. What were you doing in

00:39:09.530 --> 00:39:11.789
Thailand? We were doing a movie out there. Oh,

00:39:11.869 --> 00:39:13.989
wow. But he had to train. He was getting ready

00:39:13.989 --> 00:39:18.230
for the George St. Pierre fight. And so, you

00:39:18.230 --> 00:39:20.010
know, I was like, yeah, let's do some rounds

00:39:20.010 --> 00:39:25.550
or whatever. And I got so winded the second round.

00:39:26.210 --> 00:39:29.489
I'm like, dude, just whoop my ass. I feel so

00:39:29.489 --> 00:39:33.949
like, like. I'm embarrassed. Bisping was a cardio

00:39:33.949 --> 00:39:36.210
machine. Yes, he was. He was a cardio machine.

00:39:36.210 --> 00:39:39.909
I didn't expect that because we spent all day

00:39:39.909 --> 00:39:43.199
on a yacht. The day before, and he was drinking

00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:47.079
nonstop. I'm a non -drinker, right? I'm like,

00:39:47.119 --> 00:39:49.500
this guy's going to, you know, I'm going to probably

00:39:49.500 --> 00:39:52.940
take it easy on him today. He is one of the toughest

00:39:52.940 --> 00:39:55.119
motherfuckers that ever fought in the sport.

00:39:55.300 --> 00:39:57.519
I swear. This is what I say about him. No matter

00:39:57.519 --> 00:40:00.380
what you think about watching his fights, you

00:40:00.380 --> 00:40:03.059
have to understand, not only did he accomplish

00:40:03.059 --> 00:40:06.059
so much, he accomplished a lot of it with one

00:40:06.059 --> 00:40:10.570
eye. One fucking eye. He had 11 fights in the

00:40:10.570 --> 00:40:13.570
UFC with a winning record with one eye. Yeah.

00:40:14.230 --> 00:40:19.289
Crazy. Yeah, that's, man. He would memorize the

00:40:19.289 --> 00:40:22.469
eye chart so that when they covered his eye,

00:40:22.690 --> 00:40:26.190
he could side it out like he could read it. Oh,

00:40:26.230 --> 00:40:28.630
yeah, yeah. How fucking crazy is that? He's got

00:40:28.630 --> 00:40:31.489
a hell of a personal story, too. I was trying

00:40:31.489 --> 00:40:34.150
to encourage him to get that. Get that made.

00:40:34.409 --> 00:40:41.329
Honestly, man, I really look at these UFC fighters

00:40:41.329 --> 00:40:45.110
and the MMA guys as our modern -day heroes. They're

00:40:45.110 --> 00:40:48.889
our gladiators. And so whenever I have a chance,

00:40:49.010 --> 00:40:51.389
man, I always like to put them in movies and

00:40:51.389 --> 00:40:55.349
try to expose them to another kind of way of

00:40:55.349 --> 00:40:59.789
getting paid, especially afterwards because it

00:40:59.789 --> 00:41:03.860
breaks my heart that... They're heroes, and then

00:41:03.860 --> 00:41:08.519
they get discarded sometimes. Not by the union

00:41:08.519 --> 00:41:10.980
that they're with, but just by the fans. They're

00:41:10.980 --> 00:41:15.079
so fickle sometimes. Yes. Well, the casuals,

00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:16.920
the people that aren't really martial artists.

00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:19.880
Right, yeah. They dismiss a guy when they lose

00:41:19.880 --> 00:41:23.719
a few. Yeah, I just did my third movie with Cowboy

00:41:23.719 --> 00:41:27.260
Cerrone. We just finished a little over a week

00:41:27.260 --> 00:41:29.289
ago. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, he's doing really

00:41:29.289 --> 00:41:31.090
good, man. I love that dude. Yeah, yeah, me too.

00:41:31.090 --> 00:41:33.530
That's a guy that could really legitimately transition

00:41:33.530 --> 00:41:35.969
to become a movie star. Yes, yes. And he's got

00:41:35.969 --> 00:41:38.170
a lot more confidence. Like I said, the third

00:41:38.170 --> 00:41:43.429
movie, he did a Western with me, Outlaw Johnny

00:41:43.429 --> 00:41:48.389
Black. I wrote and directed it. But I had Cowboy.

00:41:50.510 --> 00:41:53.010
Randy Couture in it. Oh, wow. And then Josh Barnett.

00:41:53.570 --> 00:41:55.489
Randy's done an amazing job of transitioning.

00:41:55.690 --> 00:41:58.070
Oh, absolutely. The expendables, you know, and

00:41:58.070 --> 00:42:00.590
he's great at it. Yeah, yeah. He has a great

00:42:00.590 --> 00:42:03.650
personality. Absolutely. Just very calm. Like

00:42:03.650 --> 00:42:06.130
he, well, I remember one time he was fighting

00:42:06.130 --> 00:42:08.789
Tim Sylvia for the heavyweight title and he came

00:42:08.789 --> 00:42:10.670
out there and he had a smile on his face. He

00:42:10.670 --> 00:42:13.030
looked over at me and he winked. I'm like, how

00:42:13.030 --> 00:42:16.289
is this motherfucker so relaxed before his fight?

00:42:16.329 --> 00:42:19.190
But he had an amazing perspective. He's like,

00:42:19.690 --> 00:42:22.969
He said to me, the people who love you will love

00:42:22.969 --> 00:42:25.809
you whether you win or lose. And he said, what's

00:42:25.809 --> 00:42:27.550
the worst thing that can happen? You lose? He

00:42:27.550 --> 00:42:30.170
goes, you've lost before. It's no big deal. I

00:42:30.170 --> 00:42:33.269
remember him spanking Tito. Yeah, he got on top

00:42:33.269 --> 00:42:34.809
of him and spanked him when he had him down.

00:42:35.190 --> 00:42:38.590
Randy was an animal. You know, he had that heart

00:42:38.590 --> 00:42:40.710
attack while he was shooting my movie. That's

00:42:40.710 --> 00:42:43.670
crazy. And it came back to set like nothing.

00:42:43.809 --> 00:42:45.849
How did he have a fucking heart attack? I don't

00:42:45.849 --> 00:42:51.079
remember how exactly. And I think he drove himself

00:42:51.079 --> 00:42:55.699
to the hospital. Yeah, man. Talk about an American

00:42:55.699 --> 00:42:59.500
hero, man. I was there for his first fight. Really?

00:42:59.659 --> 00:43:01.860
Yeah, 1997. Yeah, I was there for his very first

00:43:01.860 --> 00:43:04.320
fight. Oh, shoot. He fought this huge jack dude,

00:43:04.500 --> 00:43:06.539
took him down, mounted him, beat the shit out

00:43:06.539 --> 00:43:09.539
of him. It was wild. That was the time where

00:43:09.539 --> 00:43:12.900
wrestlers had first started cracking this code.

00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:15.980
Right. There was this code of there was a lot

00:43:15.980 --> 00:43:17.940
of people that thought jujitsu was the only way,

00:43:18.119 --> 00:43:20.139
and then the elite wrestlers got in there. Oh,

00:43:20.139 --> 00:43:23.260
God. The Mark Kers, the Mark Coleman. And then

00:43:23.260 --> 00:43:26.019
Randy, a bunch of these guys got in there. And

00:43:26.019 --> 00:43:27.619
then they realized, like, if a guy can just take

00:43:27.619 --> 00:43:29.099
you down and beat the fuck out of you from the

00:43:29.099 --> 00:43:30.920
top, there's not a whole lot you could do about

00:43:30.920 --> 00:43:32.579
it. Right, right. And then we realized, like,

00:43:32.579 --> 00:43:35.900
boy, that's the true cornerstone of martial arts,

00:43:35.980 --> 00:43:38.539
the ability to take a guy down. My goodness.

00:43:38.679 --> 00:43:40.300
I mean, what's harder than wrestling? I don't

00:43:40.300 --> 00:43:41.300
think there's anything. The hardest sport in

00:43:41.300 --> 00:43:42.860
the world. Yeah. The hardest sport in the world

00:43:42.860 --> 00:43:44.659
and the best sport in the world to get your kids

00:43:44.659 --> 00:43:48.179
into at a young age because the discipline and

00:43:48.179 --> 00:43:50.159
the mental toughness that they get will carry

00:43:50.159 --> 00:43:51.679
them through for the rest of their lives. of

00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:54.590
their life. Yep. Tenacity. Just the... Stick

00:43:54.590 --> 00:43:56.409
-to -itiveness, whatever you want to call it.

00:43:56.610 --> 00:43:59.090
Yeah, that's just like. Even high school wrestling.

00:43:59.190 --> 00:44:01.050
I remember wrestling in high school, and I had

00:44:01.050 --> 00:44:02.769
already done martial arts, but I was like, I've

00:44:02.769 --> 00:44:04.909
never trained that hard. I was like, I can't

00:44:04.909 --> 00:44:07.590
believe. And then it carried me over into my

00:44:07.590 --> 00:44:09.789
Taekwondo career because I realized, like, oh,

00:44:09.809 --> 00:44:12.030
I'm leaving a lot on the table. Like, I'm not

00:44:12.030 --> 00:44:14.489
training like these guys are. So I started running.

00:44:14.570 --> 00:44:16.369
I started adding all these things to my training

00:44:16.369 --> 00:44:18.130
that I wasn't doing before. I started doing a

00:44:18.130 --> 00:44:20.050
lot more calisthenics, a lot more different things.

00:44:20.110 --> 00:44:21.789
I was like, I'm leaving something on the table

00:44:21.789 --> 00:44:24.289
because we were not training. In the gym. And

00:44:24.289 --> 00:44:26.250
we were sparring hard. We were doing hard rounds.

00:44:26.269 --> 00:44:29.010
You'd get tired. But it was not the same as what

00:44:29.010 --> 00:44:31.190
we were doing in wrestling. No one trains harder

00:44:31.190 --> 00:44:33.510
than wrestlers. That anaerobic stuff, man. I

00:44:33.510 --> 00:44:39.130
got the wrestling bug when I was a senior in

00:44:39.130 --> 00:44:43.469
high school. And the football coach was a wrestler

00:44:43.469 --> 00:44:49.400
in college. And he challenged me. I think we

00:44:49.400 --> 00:44:51.820
did this two years in a row, in my junior year

00:44:51.820 --> 00:44:54.800
and my senior year. At the end of the year, we'd

00:44:54.800 --> 00:44:59.019
wrestle. We'd just go, like, you know, he and

00:44:59.019 --> 00:45:01.760
I. Like I said, I was big for my age. Were you

00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:06.440
playing football? I was for a very short time,

00:45:06.619 --> 00:45:13.349
but I ended up, I wasn't designed for it. Team

00:45:13.349 --> 00:45:17.969
sports. Me neither. I ended up beating up the

00:45:17.969 --> 00:45:23.650
football coach. Oh, no. Yeah. Dude, like, I had

00:45:23.650 --> 00:45:27.690
the worst temper than anybody I had ever seen.

00:45:27.849 --> 00:45:30.590
I mean, I used to go in the fits of rage. I was

00:45:30.590 --> 00:45:34.590
so angry early on, man. It's like the Hulk is

00:45:34.590 --> 00:45:36.230
like, Mike, you should chill out a little bit,

00:45:36.309 --> 00:45:40.110
man. It's probably from being on your own at

00:45:40.110 --> 00:45:43.730
14. Yeah. What it is is I was growing up in a

00:45:43.730 --> 00:45:47.829
very harsh environment. And I didn't know I was

00:45:47.829 --> 00:45:50.949
an artist. I didn't know I was a writer, director,

00:45:51.130 --> 00:45:54.369
whatever. You didn't see those growing up where

00:45:54.369 --> 00:45:57.150
I am. And so when you're a sensitive kid, man,

00:45:57.210 --> 00:46:00.510
what you do is you build armor. I was to play

00:46:00.510 --> 00:46:02.989
Mike Tyson later on, and I understood him quite

00:46:02.989 --> 00:46:08.840
well. If you're sensitive, you know, anything

00:46:08.840 --> 00:46:11.219
that's precious, you put it in, you lock it in

00:46:11.219 --> 00:46:15.300
a safe and you become the safe. And it's like,

00:46:15.559 --> 00:46:19.300
I grew up, my brothers were completely different.

00:46:19.380 --> 00:46:21.900
They're engineers. So things rolled off their

00:46:21.900 --> 00:46:26.820
back. But like for me, just, I was just volatile.

00:46:27.260 --> 00:46:30.760
And luckily I had martial arts to kind of put

00:46:30.760 --> 00:46:35.440
my focus into. But like I said. Like I was to

00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:38.000
play Mike Tyson, I understood him a great deal.

00:46:38.699 --> 00:46:41.460
And, you know, even though you take the moniker

00:46:41.460 --> 00:46:46.280
of this monster, it's only to hide what's really

00:46:46.280 --> 00:46:49.559
deep inside. And that's why you would see if

00:46:49.559 --> 00:46:53.119
anybody's going to go into tears in front of

00:46:53.119 --> 00:46:55.599
a million people, it's people like Mike Tyson.

00:46:55.960 --> 00:46:59.079
And you go, how does that fit in the same person?

00:46:59.300 --> 00:47:03.190
Right. And so that's what I was growing up. I

00:47:03.190 --> 00:47:05.909
don't know if you know this, but I was a school

00:47:05.909 --> 00:47:08.409
teacher before I was an actor. Oh, really? Yeah,

00:47:08.510 --> 00:47:11.449
I taught EMD. I was a special ed teacher. So

00:47:11.449 --> 00:47:13.570
I focused on a lot of kids who were very much

00:47:13.570 --> 00:47:15.889
like me, and I still do that. In a way, I consider

00:47:15.889 --> 00:47:19.250
that my real job. Whenever I'm off from work

00:47:19.250 --> 00:47:22.449
on a movie or whatever, I go into the inner cities.

00:47:22.510 --> 00:47:25.909
I go into community centers. I devote my time

00:47:25.909 --> 00:47:28.469
because there's nothing I could do. There's no

00:47:28.469 --> 00:47:31.610
better spending of time than something like that.

00:47:32.599 --> 00:47:37.980
I was luckily, luckily saved. I had just at the

00:47:37.980 --> 00:47:41.739
right times in my life just different seeds planted.

00:47:42.159 --> 00:47:45.539
And so I'm confident that if those seeds were

00:47:45.539 --> 00:47:48.239
not planted, I would not be here. Because, like

00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:52.119
I say, I've been through some crazy stuff. It's

00:47:52.119 --> 00:47:54.460
a classic story. Yeah, bro. Man, like I tell

00:47:54.460 --> 00:47:56.940
you, like just a little under two years ago,

00:47:57.079 --> 00:48:00.900
a buddy of mine, it was a close friend of mine.

00:48:02.349 --> 00:48:05.050
He got out of prison. He was in prison for almost

00:48:05.050 --> 00:48:09.570
like 30 years. And he found me on Facebook. And

00:48:09.570 --> 00:48:13.050
so when I went back east, we linked up. And,

00:48:13.110 --> 00:48:17.329
you know, I know a lot of people who have businesses

00:48:17.329 --> 00:48:19.389
and everything. I hooked him up, you know, got

00:48:19.389 --> 00:48:22.469
him a job, and we were sitting over lunch. And

00:48:22.469 --> 00:48:25.750
in the middle of him telling me, like, the third

00:48:25.750 --> 00:48:30.320
or fourth story, like, back in the glory days

00:48:30.320 --> 00:48:34.460
of us or whatever. While he was in the middle

00:48:34.460 --> 00:48:39.159
of this story, I was kind of getting myself set

00:48:39.159 --> 00:48:41.679
to kind of set him straight because I don't know

00:48:41.679 --> 00:48:44.219
if you want to call this superstitious, but I

00:48:44.219 --> 00:48:49.739
won't lie. I refuse to lie to my friends. I won't

00:48:49.739 --> 00:48:54.300
lie by omission. So I was getting set to tell

00:48:54.300 --> 00:48:56.340
him, dude, man, you got to stop embellishing

00:48:56.340 --> 00:48:58.619
on these stories. Just because you were locked

00:48:58.619 --> 00:49:01.579
up and you made these stories sound bigger than

00:49:01.579 --> 00:49:07.739
life. Right. I get it. But that's not real. You

00:49:07.739 --> 00:49:10.420
got to really, you know, kind of not do that.

00:49:10.699 --> 00:49:13.280
And in the middle of me thinking that, and I'm

00:49:13.280 --> 00:49:18.179
listening to him, I go, holy shit. He's telling

00:49:18.179 --> 00:49:19.820
the truth. I started remembering what he was

00:49:19.820 --> 00:49:24.519
telling me. And I'm like, now I'm finishing his

00:49:24.519 --> 00:49:27.170
sentences. Not only was that story true. But

00:49:27.170 --> 00:49:30.130
the other ones were true, too. And, dude, like,

00:49:30.150 --> 00:49:32.349
I swear, every time I think about this, I got

00:49:32.349 --> 00:49:36.690
these goosebumps. And I realized, oh, my God,

00:49:36.789 --> 00:49:42.150
how close I was to being where he was or just

00:49:42.150 --> 00:49:47.230
not being on this planet. Right. Like, I better

00:49:47.230 --> 00:49:51.610
devote my time into helping kids the way I was

00:49:51.610 --> 00:49:54.130
helped. Yeah, don't pull that ladder up. No,

00:49:54.150 --> 00:49:59.099
hell no. Hell no. Even if I'm taken out, I accept

00:49:59.099 --> 00:50:03.880
that. Even if I'm in some projects where I'm

00:50:03.880 --> 00:50:05.420
not supposed to be and I shouldn't have been,

00:50:05.539 --> 00:50:11.980
I accept that. Because, dude, I am abundantly

00:50:11.980 --> 00:50:17.579
lucky. Like, it doesn't even fit on the radar

00:50:17.579 --> 00:50:20.820
how lucky I am. And I can remember a lot of these

00:50:20.820 --> 00:50:24.320
crazy stories, you know, aside from the ones

00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:28.389
that he, Made me conjure back up. But man, I'm

00:50:28.389 --> 00:50:30.949
like, wow. Well, that speaks to your character

00:50:30.949 --> 00:50:33.670
that you had downplayed it all in your mind so

00:50:33.670 --> 00:50:36.269
much that you thought he was exaggerating. I

00:50:36.269 --> 00:50:39.190
swept it under the rug. Yeah. Because you're

00:50:39.190 --> 00:50:42.269
not that person anymore. No, no. But I mean,

00:50:42.349 --> 00:50:49.190
but there was so much. There were so many events,

00:50:49.329 --> 00:50:52.670
things that I just call it on a Wednesday that

00:50:52.670 --> 00:50:57.809
I went through that. It's like, I don't know.

00:50:57.869 --> 00:51:02.449
Like, I think I wouldn't trade it because I continue

00:51:02.449 --> 00:51:05.030
to be the happiest guy I know because of, I think,

00:51:05.030 --> 00:51:07.230
some of that. Because you can appreciate the

00:51:07.230 --> 00:51:10.269
good times. Oh, my God. Yeah. And I should be

00:51:10.269 --> 00:51:13.849
slapped if I complain about anything. Right.

00:51:13.989 --> 00:51:17.369
You know what I mean? Like, what? And so, you

00:51:17.369 --> 00:51:22.150
know, so I just, boy, I just know I'm so blessed.

00:51:24.989 --> 00:51:27.210
You know, what we do, what we're doing right

00:51:27.210 --> 00:51:29.630
now, man, we're we're in the service industry,

00:51:29.849 --> 00:51:33.550
man. You know, you're here to serve. In my opinion,

00:51:33.929 --> 00:51:37.210
that's what we're all here for. And, you know,

00:51:37.230 --> 00:51:39.210
it's great that we get to serve and doing the

00:51:39.210 --> 00:51:41.389
things that we would like to do. That's definitely

00:51:41.389 --> 00:51:43.769
a lot of what we do. I mean, there's definitely

00:51:43.769 --> 00:51:47.690
a lot of it. Right. You you entertain. But I

00:51:47.690 --> 00:51:50.150
feel very blessed that I've been able to expose

00:51:50.150 --> 00:51:53.789
people to so many different. ways of thinking,

00:51:53.969 --> 00:51:56.610
so much information, so many different human

00:51:56.610 --> 00:51:58.710
beings that have led completely different paths

00:51:58.710 --> 00:52:01.809
that can tell you about whatever discipline they're

00:52:01.809 --> 00:52:03.809
involved in, what they've learned and what we're

00:52:03.809 --> 00:52:06.190
working on right now and what you can learn about

00:52:06.190 --> 00:52:10.070
the human mind, the body, ancient history, fill

00:52:10.070 --> 00:52:12.050
in the blank, like whatever it is. Yeah, yeah.

00:52:12.130 --> 00:52:15.789
And I see you do that over and over and in utmost

00:52:15.789 --> 00:52:19.050
honesty, I remember like when you had to kind

00:52:19.050 --> 00:52:23.619
of pull Shab aside until... as a friend, some

00:52:23.619 --> 00:52:25.900
things that are hard for people that, you know,

00:52:25.920 --> 00:52:28.579
other friends to tell him, you know, and like,

00:52:28.579 --> 00:52:30.960
that was real hard. Yeah. Well, that was real

00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:33.260
hard because I love that guy. He's a great, he's

00:52:33.260 --> 00:52:35.730
a great person. He's a great human being. And

00:52:35.730 --> 00:52:38.710
I knew the path. I'd seen it too many times.

00:52:38.750 --> 00:52:40.590
But I hadn't seen it with someone I was that

00:52:40.590 --> 00:52:43.789
close with. I was like, you have to stop. Because

00:52:43.789 --> 00:52:46.269
not only that, you're in the heavyweight division.

00:52:46.449 --> 00:52:49.090
So the knockouts are brutal. And you're going

00:52:49.090 --> 00:52:51.090
to get three or four more in the next couple

00:52:51.090 --> 00:52:53.010
of years. And then you're not going to recover

00:52:53.010 --> 00:52:55.869
from those. Man, so many people. I hope they

00:52:55.869 --> 00:53:00.730
take a page out of that. Because it's so non

00:53:00.730 --> 00:53:03.929
-manly, I feel. to not to just not say anything

00:53:03.929 --> 00:53:07.719
right and allow somebody you love To go down

00:53:07.719 --> 00:53:10.860
the road. I mean, that might be detrimental for

00:53:10.860 --> 00:53:13.139
them. Well, it was also when Schaub had another

00:53:13.139 --> 00:53:15.960
path. He was really good at podcasting. He's

00:53:15.960 --> 00:53:18.400
fun. He's a funny dude. Right, yeah. He's like,

00:53:18.500 --> 00:53:21.179
as a podcast, he's got a great personality. He's

00:53:21.179 --> 00:53:25.579
silly. He's a big, giant, silly dude. We would

00:53:25.579 --> 00:53:27.199
have so much fun. And he was doing really well.

00:53:27.280 --> 00:53:28.679
And he was making more money doing that than

00:53:28.679 --> 00:53:31.260
he was fighting. But his identity was so wrapped

00:53:31.260 --> 00:53:34.119
up in him being a top 10 UFC heavyweight. He

00:53:34.119 --> 00:53:36.809
had beat world -class guys like Mirko. crow cop

00:53:36.809 --> 00:53:40.710
you know and he was legit man but that time had

00:53:40.710 --> 00:53:45.250
passed and I saw that his he was one foot in

00:53:45.250 --> 00:53:47.010
and one foot out and as soon as the guy's one

00:53:47.010 --> 00:53:49.429
foot in one foot out you're gonna run into some

00:53:49.429 --> 00:53:52.369
guy who has both feet in and he's a fucking samurai

00:53:52.369 --> 00:53:54.650
and then you're gonna wake up on a stretcher

00:53:54.650 --> 00:53:56.690
yeah you're on the way to the hospital going

00:53:56.690 --> 00:53:58.710
what happened and you don't remember the fight

00:53:58.710 --> 00:54:01.820
you don't remember nothing And then you don't

00:54:01.820 --> 00:54:03.880
know where your keys are. You forget people's

00:54:03.880 --> 00:54:06.760
names. You tell the same story over and over

00:54:06.760 --> 00:54:08.940
again. And then you struggle to put sentences

00:54:08.940 --> 00:54:11.019
together. When you start seeing dudes with the

00:54:11.019 --> 00:54:13.119
slur. Nothing's worth that, man. Nothing's worth

00:54:13.119 --> 00:54:15.760
that. Because you're, I mean, at the time he

00:54:15.760 --> 00:54:17.599
was only 35 years old or whatever he was. I'm

00:54:17.599 --> 00:54:21.079
like, man, you got another 45, 55 years of life.

00:54:21.179 --> 00:54:25.980
You can't do this. You can't sacrifice all these

00:54:25.980 --> 00:54:29.599
years. for glory that will never be achieved

00:54:29.599 --> 00:54:31.980
anyway because you're not on that path anymore.

00:54:32.280 --> 00:54:35.059
Yeah, and it's not about what strangers say about

00:54:35.059 --> 00:54:37.519
you. No. It's about your friends, your family.

00:54:37.579 --> 00:54:39.840
People really love you. It's just so hard for

00:54:39.840 --> 00:54:42.239
people to abandon that identity. That's the hardest

00:54:42.239 --> 00:54:44.940
thing with fighters is to abandon that identity.

00:54:45.519 --> 00:54:48.380
We've seen so many guys, even the greats, they

00:54:48.380 --> 00:54:50.980
come back and they shouldn't and you see it and

00:54:50.980 --> 00:54:53.000
you see them get humiliated and you're like,

00:54:53.000 --> 00:54:58.050
oh. Yeah, and when it comes down to it, these

00:54:58.050 --> 00:55:02.829
people, they don't love you, man. They love you

00:55:02.829 --> 00:55:05.869
as the image. Yeah, they live vicariously through

00:55:05.869 --> 00:55:10.090
you. I remember one time I was fighting in Boston,

00:55:10.190 --> 00:55:13.769
and I remember when something completely changed.

00:55:14.150 --> 00:55:17.550
Usually, if anybody, because I did any kind of

00:55:17.550 --> 00:55:21.699
thing. kickboxing or this tournament, I just

00:55:21.699 --> 00:55:26.400
loved my best. I think the thing I did best in

00:55:26.400 --> 00:55:30.739
the world was fighting. I always had these cheat

00:55:30.739 --> 00:55:34.719
codes in a way, and I enjoyed the chess match

00:55:34.719 --> 00:55:39.719
of it. And anybody who was against me, I don't

00:55:39.719 --> 00:55:41.179
care if you were my cousin or whatever, you were

00:55:41.179 --> 00:55:44.139
going to pay for all the angst that I've had

00:55:44.139 --> 00:55:47.500
in my life. But until there was this one time,

00:55:47.579 --> 00:55:51.139
I swear, I ducked a technique. I caught somebody

00:55:51.139 --> 00:55:54.019
with something that was kind of, you know, kind

00:55:54.019 --> 00:55:58.380
of cool. And I just remember the audience just

00:55:58.380 --> 00:56:03.940
cheering. And in that moment, I was like, just

00:56:03.940 --> 00:56:08.579
angry. Kind of like, yo, this guy could really

00:56:08.579 --> 00:56:11.340
be messed up right now. You're cheering for me.

00:56:11.400 --> 00:56:14.530
You're living vicarious through me. Like I'm

00:56:14.530 --> 00:56:17.469
a pit bull or something. Right. And I got angry

00:56:17.469 --> 00:56:20.969
at the audience. I fucking hated them. And I

00:56:20.969 --> 00:56:23.989
said, because if I was down on the ground, you'd

00:56:23.989 --> 00:56:25.989
be cheering for the person that put me down.

00:56:26.489 --> 00:56:30.949
And something just snapped. And I go, no. This

00:56:30.949 --> 00:56:36.650
is not enough for me. This is not what I want

00:56:36.650 --> 00:56:41.570
to do. And, you know, just something snapped.

00:56:41.630 --> 00:56:48.110
And I'd much rather. be skillful, test myself

00:56:48.110 --> 00:56:54.230
in a skillful way. And I'd much rather not try

00:56:54.230 --> 00:56:59.550
to peel your head off, but show I could, as opposed

00:56:59.550 --> 00:57:04.210
to, you know, that triumph of dominating. It

00:57:04.210 --> 00:57:09.570
was nothing for me anymore in that. You know,

00:57:09.570 --> 00:57:12.829
it's just something just rubbed me the wrong

00:57:12.829 --> 00:57:16.260
way, and I just... Any time I would do any kind

00:57:16.260 --> 00:57:18.480
of competition, it was for me, and it wasn't

00:57:18.480 --> 00:57:22.679
for an audience. You know? Just something soured.

00:57:23.360 --> 00:57:26.940
I always thought at one time, I'm going to be

00:57:26.940 --> 00:57:29.619
called out. You know? And I thought, oh, I'll...

00:57:30.110 --> 00:57:32.909
I'll rise to that occasion if that happens. And,

00:57:32.909 --> 00:57:35.090
you know, kind of like, remember the thing with

00:57:35.090 --> 00:57:38.050
you and Wesley? Oh, yeah. Which would have been,

00:57:38.050 --> 00:57:41.090
oh, my God, that would have been terrible. But

00:57:41.090 --> 00:57:45.090
I always thought, hey, you know, maybe, you know,

00:57:45.090 --> 00:57:47.030
something. I think Wesley just needed money.

00:57:47.500 --> 00:57:50.719
I mean, that was when he was rapping. I don't

00:57:50.719 --> 00:57:54.099
think that was ever serious. We were in negotiation

00:57:54.099 --> 00:57:56.460
for quite a while, man. We had lawyers involved.

00:57:56.980 --> 00:57:58.920
Yeah, it's always easy to pull a plug on something

00:57:58.920 --> 00:58:00.619
like that. Just like Jean -Claude's talking about

00:58:00.619 --> 00:58:04.480
fighting Jake Paul, right? Is he talking about

00:58:04.480 --> 00:58:06.380
that right now? He's 100 years old. He weighs

00:58:06.380 --> 00:58:10.360
50 pounds. I'm like, come on, man. Come on. Is

00:58:10.360 --> 00:58:13.300
he really talking about it? I just saw something

00:58:13.300 --> 00:58:15.900
in the last couple of days. I'm like, OK. I think

00:58:15.900 --> 00:58:19.900
Wesley was serious because I think they had hit

00:58:19.900 --> 00:58:23.800
him with that tax case. And he owed a lot of

00:58:23.800 --> 00:58:24.460
money to the government. No, this was before

00:58:24.460 --> 00:58:26.480
that tax case. No, no, no. It was in the middle

00:58:26.480 --> 00:58:28.960
of it. Really? Yeah, 100%. I know it was. Yeah.

00:58:29.260 --> 00:58:33.269
Yeah, it was 2000, I want to say, 5 or 6. It

00:58:33.269 --> 00:58:35.269
was in the middle of all that, and he was in

00:58:35.269 --> 00:58:39.159
trouble. It was serious. And he, you know, obviously

00:58:39.159 --> 00:58:41.280
eventually wound up going to jail. Yeah, yeah.

00:58:41.340 --> 00:58:43.099
And so they were going to set up a fight with

00:58:43.099 --> 00:58:45.059
him and Jean -Claude Van Damme. That was the

00:58:45.059 --> 00:58:48.579
first fight. But Campbell McLaren from the UFC

00:58:48.579 --> 00:58:50.400
was like, no one gives a shit about you fighting

00:58:50.400 --> 00:58:52.139
Jean -Claude Van Damme. You got to fight someone

00:58:52.139 --> 00:58:56.119
who's current. And so he said, let me contact

00:58:56.119 --> 00:58:58.219
Joe Rogan. He called me up and he said, would

00:58:58.219 --> 00:59:00.059
you be willing to fight Wesley Snipes? And I

00:59:00.059 --> 00:59:03.340
was like, what? And I was like, come on, really?

00:59:03.659 --> 00:59:06.199
I go, what is this? So I said, let me think about

00:59:06.199 --> 00:59:08.000
it. I thought about it. I called him the next

00:59:08.000 --> 00:59:10.199
day. I said, let's fucking do it. Really? Yeah.

00:59:10.340 --> 00:59:12.659
I was training with Rob Kamen in the mornings,

00:59:12.780 --> 00:59:14.400
and then I was doing jujitsu at night. I trained

00:59:14.400 --> 00:59:17.500
twice a day for six months. Wow. I was always

00:59:17.500 --> 00:59:20.059
tired. I was always tired. That's one thing that

00:59:20.059 --> 00:59:23.059
I realized. Like, fuck, man. And I wasn't even

00:59:23.059 --> 00:59:24.860
a professional, really. But I was training like

00:59:24.860 --> 00:59:26.460
a professional. I was like, I can't believe how

00:59:26.460 --> 00:59:31.099
tired I am all the time. But, you know, I think

00:59:31.099 --> 00:59:33.940
Wesley had never really had a fight. I don't

00:59:33.940 --> 00:59:36.300
think so. I think he was an accomplished martial

00:59:36.300 --> 00:59:38.960
artist. He had good technique. I trained with

00:59:38.960 --> 00:59:42.900
Wesley's instructors. Marcus Elgato was a good

00:59:42.900 --> 00:59:47.219
friend of mine. And also Lamar Thornton, who

00:59:47.219 --> 00:59:51.460
was Marcus Elgato's instructor. I believe that's

00:59:51.460 --> 00:59:56.599
the lineage I believe that he's through. I've

00:59:56.599 --> 01:00:00.730
known Wesley since... way before he was kind

01:00:00.730 --> 01:00:03.230
of Wesley. I was a giant fan of Wesley too, which

01:00:03.230 --> 01:00:06.750
was also wild for me because I love Blade. Blade

01:00:06.750 --> 01:00:08.409
was like my favorite comic book when I was a

01:00:08.409 --> 01:00:11.250
kid. Yeah, yeah. I just didn't, I didn't think

01:00:11.250 --> 01:00:14.130
they were serious about it. I couldn't imagine

01:00:14.130 --> 01:00:17.789
why would Wesley, I always thought it was not

01:00:17.789 --> 01:00:20.489
real. I think Wesley thought that I was just

01:00:20.489 --> 01:00:23.630
a grappler and think he knew that I was doing

01:00:23.630 --> 01:00:25.809
jujitsu. I don't think he knew my background.

01:00:26.070 --> 01:00:29.840
And so like, Wesley was talking to them, saying,

01:00:29.940 --> 01:00:32.219
oh, he thinks he's going to be able to stop you

01:00:32.219 --> 01:00:33.800
from taking him down and he's going to catch

01:00:33.800 --> 01:00:35.280
you with a knee while you're coming in to try

01:00:35.280 --> 01:00:37.519
to take him down. I go, oh, he wants to stand

01:00:37.519 --> 01:00:42.440
up? I go, I'm way better at that. Yeah. Yeah.

01:00:42.480 --> 01:00:45.340
I was wondering how that even occurred. I didn't

01:00:45.340 --> 01:00:47.780
think that was serious. I was like, OK. It was

01:00:47.780 --> 01:00:50.579
serious. Yeah. It was serious. It went on for

01:00:50.579 --> 01:00:53.860
a long time. It was a lot of negotiation to the

01:00:53.860 --> 01:00:57.320
point where I even. talked about it on the UFC

01:00:57.320 --> 01:01:00.099
broadcast once. I said, come on, Wesley, sign

01:01:00.099 --> 01:01:02.699
the contract. I'm getting bored training. Let's

01:01:02.699 --> 01:01:05.179
do this. Like, I have to do it now. I was like

01:01:05.179 --> 01:01:07.739
35 or 36. I was like, I don't have much time

01:01:07.739 --> 01:01:09.460
left. If we're going to do this, we have to do

01:01:09.460 --> 01:01:13.059
this now. Like, come on, let's go. And then he

01:01:13.059 --> 01:01:14.539
decided not to. And then I'm like, that's probably

01:01:14.539 --> 01:01:17.340
for the better. Yeah. I know Wesley for a while.

01:01:17.420 --> 01:01:20.019
I remember when he was first telling me about

01:01:20.019 --> 01:01:23.469
this. being sovereign. Yeah, that's where they

01:01:23.469 --> 01:01:25.530
got him, with that sovereign citizenship. Yeah,

01:01:25.530 --> 01:01:28.969
and I was like... I wish I was friends with him.

01:01:29.070 --> 01:01:31.269
I would have said, dude, they're going to lock

01:01:31.269 --> 01:01:35.210
you up. I'm super protective of my friends. I've

01:01:35.210 --> 01:01:37.809
always been that way. And with Wesley, I was

01:01:37.809 --> 01:01:39.909
always... My thing is, he used to have people

01:01:39.909 --> 01:01:43.650
around him that I'm like, you know, we have little

01:01:43.650 --> 01:01:45.690
get -togethers at my house or whatever. I'm like,

01:01:45.750 --> 01:01:49.170
don't bring any of those motherfuckers. Or it's

01:01:49.170 --> 01:01:51.420
going to be a problem. You know, because there's

01:01:51.420 --> 01:01:53.679
people that just I felt like were hangers on

01:01:53.679 --> 01:01:56.199
and, you know, that kind of a thing. And I was

01:01:56.199 --> 01:01:58.900
always like, hey, man, are you good? And, you

01:01:58.900 --> 01:02:02.099
know, are you staying healthy? I've always been

01:02:02.099 --> 01:02:03.420
that way because the way I look at it, he's a

01:02:03.420 --> 01:02:06.460
big brother. If not for him, it may not be for

01:02:06.460 --> 01:02:09.619
me. He gave me some good advice early on. He

01:02:09.619 --> 01:02:12.260
always encouraged me that if I have a movie that's

01:02:12.260 --> 01:02:16.739
overseas, get there. Show up in those overseas

01:02:16.739 --> 01:02:20.159
markets and let them know that you're down. And

01:02:20.159 --> 01:02:22.820
I took that to heart, and that helped me out

01:02:22.820 --> 01:02:26.500
in my career a great deal. And so I look at it

01:02:26.500 --> 01:02:29.599
like that. I'll never say anything. derogatory

01:02:29.599 --> 01:02:31.920
about him or whatever. So, I mean, I'm always,

01:02:32.079 --> 01:02:34.900
I just recently tried to reach out to him like

01:02:34.900 --> 01:02:37.139
a couple days ago just to check in, man, because

01:02:37.139 --> 01:02:42.099
I, you know, I wish him the best and, you know,

01:02:42.119 --> 01:02:45.360
I want him to like really, you know, start kicking

01:02:45.360 --> 01:02:48.119
ass again. I would love to see him return as

01:02:48.119 --> 01:02:50.900
Blade. Yeah, that would be cool. He could do

01:02:50.900 --> 01:02:54.099
it too. Yeah, yeah. An older Blade, he could

01:02:54.099 --> 01:02:56.699
do it. Yeah. Fuck, he was good in the original

01:02:56.699 --> 01:02:59.679
Blade. That opening scene, that was one of the

01:02:59.679 --> 01:03:02.739
best scenes in any action movie of all time.

01:03:02.800 --> 01:03:06.360
When it's that vampire party, and the sprinklers

01:03:06.360 --> 01:03:08.760
start spraying blood, and they're about to kill

01:03:08.760 --> 01:03:10.639
that dude. And all of a sudden, Wesley shows

01:03:10.639 --> 01:03:14.099
up. Yeah, man. What really gets on my nerves

01:03:14.099 --> 01:03:17.760
is that, you know, he saved Marvel, man. That

01:03:17.760 --> 01:03:19.800
movie saved Marvel. You know that, right? Oh,

01:03:19.840 --> 01:03:22.139
yeah. That movie was a huge hit. Even Stan Lee

01:03:22.139 --> 01:03:25.199
admits that. They were like in trouble until

01:03:25.199 --> 01:03:27.340
that movie. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. Because superhero

01:03:27.340 --> 01:03:29.760
movies are the biggest fucking movies in Hollywood

01:03:29.760 --> 01:03:32.460
right now. Yeah. I mean, when they have a big

01:03:32.460 --> 01:03:34.820
budget movie, superhero movies are like the only

01:03:34.820 --> 01:03:37.480
movie that you can throw hundreds of millions

01:03:37.480 --> 01:03:40.079
of dollars and be sure it's going to kill it

01:03:40.079 --> 01:03:42.400
in the box office. Yeah. Whether it's the Avengers

01:03:42.400 --> 01:03:45.260
or Spider -Man or Superman or whoever the fuck

01:03:45.260 --> 01:03:47.960
it is. That's the only kind of movie that Hollywood's

01:03:47.960 --> 01:03:50.829
like, yeah, okay. We'll throw $500 million at

01:03:50.829 --> 01:03:55.289
this one. Yeah. I'm not a big fan of those things.

01:03:55.730 --> 01:03:59.489
I know it's not—they didn't design it for people

01:03:59.489 --> 01:04:02.690
like me. Right. So it's for the fan base. And

01:04:02.690 --> 01:04:08.289
to me, it's like, ugh. They tend to meld into

01:04:08.289 --> 01:04:10.289
each other as far as I'm concerned. They do.

01:04:10.449 --> 01:04:12.949
Yeah. They do. There's only so many times you

01:04:12.949 --> 01:04:15.030
can tell the stories. There's only so many—you

01:04:15.030 --> 01:04:18.110
know. Yeah. But— I still enjoy them. I still

01:04:18.110 --> 01:04:21.369
enjoy some of them. They're fun. Yeah, I like

01:04:21.369 --> 01:04:25.070
when people are believable. Right. Believable.

01:04:25.190 --> 01:04:26.610
Yeah, there's nothing believable about those

01:04:26.610 --> 01:04:28.769
movies. Yeah, you know, I like the actors that

01:04:28.769 --> 01:04:30.929
are, like, you know, have some quirkiness and

01:04:30.929 --> 01:04:34.760
some, you know, edge to them, right? Yeah. Yeah.

01:04:35.360 --> 01:04:37.519
You know, maybe I'm being unfair because I really

01:04:37.519 --> 01:04:40.500
hadn't seen a lot. Maybe I owe it to myself to

01:04:40.500 --> 01:04:43.960
give some. No, I think you got it. It's simple

01:04:43.960 --> 01:04:47.739
entertainment. It's a silly release and escape.

01:04:48.239 --> 01:04:50.239
That's all it is. It's not a great. There's no

01:04:50.239 --> 01:04:52.619
great films that are superhero films. Right.

01:04:52.800 --> 01:04:54.320
Yeah. Because sometimes I'm like, oh, yeah, she's

01:04:54.320 --> 01:04:59.429
90 pounds and she just threw. OK. Yeah. Like

01:04:59.429 --> 01:05:01.010
Charlie's Angels or something. Yeah, I'm like,

01:05:01.030 --> 01:05:03.110
oh, come on now. Kicking ass in stilettos. Anytime

01:05:03.110 --> 01:05:05.929
somebody lands in a three -point stance and then

01:05:05.929 --> 01:05:08.230
looks up, I'm like, I just changed the channel.

01:05:08.570 --> 01:05:13.789
I'm just like, stop. Just stop. Yeah. But, you

01:05:13.789 --> 01:05:15.630
know, people love those things. I'm like, that's

01:05:15.630 --> 01:05:18.210
cool. I don't know why they have so much appeal,

01:05:18.389 --> 01:05:21.349
especially in the American market. People, that

01:05:21.349 --> 01:05:24.449
is one of the only movies that you can make that's

01:05:24.449 --> 01:05:27.570
guaranteed to be huge. Yeah, it's McDonald's,

01:05:27.570 --> 01:05:31.070
man. It's McDonald's. But I remember when. That's

01:05:31.070 --> 01:05:34.269
it. Yeah, I remember when you had, what was that,

01:05:34.389 --> 01:05:37.650
like the 300. You know, that was like nobody

01:05:37.650 --> 01:05:41.050
knew anybody. Right. But that was just such a.

01:05:41.509 --> 01:05:43.469
breath of fresh air because it would look like

01:05:43.469 --> 01:05:45.829
some badasses that were real. You know what I

01:05:45.829 --> 01:05:47.809
mean? I'd like to see more of that kind of a

01:05:47.809 --> 01:05:50.670
thing. Like, you know, not the star power thing,

01:05:50.750 --> 01:05:52.250
but just some motherfuckers that you believe.

01:05:52.570 --> 01:05:54.860
Right. You know what I mean? That would... You

01:05:54.860 --> 01:05:56.820
know, that would attract me. Also, the style

01:05:56.820 --> 01:05:58.820
of that movie was so unique because it blended

01:05:58.820 --> 01:06:02.699
fantasy with reality. Right. And history, too.

01:06:02.820 --> 01:06:06.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know, I would.

01:06:06.480 --> 01:06:09.760
I got some things in the works. Do you? Yeah.

01:06:09.800 --> 01:06:12.519
What are you working on? Oh, man. I've been blessed,

01:06:12.559 --> 01:06:14.340
man. I've got some really good movies coming

01:06:14.340 --> 01:06:17.079
out and some things that I'm planning on doing.

01:06:18.269 --> 01:06:20.090
I'm getting to a place where I'm really shooting

01:06:20.090 --> 01:06:23.409
the things that I want. I'm producing and all

01:06:23.409 --> 01:06:28.150
that stuff. I have movies that have their body

01:06:28.150 --> 01:06:30.730
count, but also have a little bit of something

01:06:30.730 --> 01:06:33.309
to say. You know what I miss? What's that? Spawn.

01:06:33.610 --> 01:06:38.389
Oh, man. People forgot about Spawn. You don't

01:06:38.389 --> 01:06:41.150
hear about it anymore. Right. Yeah, man. That

01:06:41.150 --> 01:06:48.260
was fucking great. Yeah. You didn't, most people

01:06:48.260 --> 01:06:52.099
didn't see the first adaptation of it. The first,

01:06:52.179 --> 01:06:58.519
well, I saw a cut of the movie before it, I mean,

01:06:58.519 --> 01:07:01.119
at this time it had like 71 special effects in

01:07:01.119 --> 01:07:04.699
it. But Bob Shea at the time that was running

01:07:04.699 --> 01:07:09.760
New Line liked the, that version he just gave

01:07:09.760 --> 01:07:14.699
the director, to just add whatever he wanted.

01:07:14.800 --> 01:07:18.650
And the director, was a special effects guy.

01:07:19.130 --> 01:07:22.530
So he started throwing special effects in there

01:07:22.530 --> 01:07:27.230
that was really killing the story, which kind

01:07:27.230 --> 01:07:30.170
of drove me up a wall because then, like, you

01:07:30.170 --> 01:07:33.630
didn't even see why my character wanted to get

01:07:33.630 --> 01:07:36.369
back. You didn't even see the life that I wanted

01:07:36.369 --> 01:07:38.989
to get back to because there was so much special

01:07:38.989 --> 01:07:41.510
effects. And even when I saw the final version,

01:07:41.590 --> 01:07:44.170
I'm like, what the hell is going on? People that

01:07:44.170 --> 01:07:46.510
knew Spawn... They were fine with it because

01:07:46.510 --> 01:07:49.530
they understood the character. But for me, it

01:07:49.530 --> 01:07:52.730
was like the story got all convoluted. But, like,

01:07:52.789 --> 01:07:55.130
you know, but, I mean, people love it. I think

01:07:55.130 --> 01:07:59.130
it was a thing for its time. But, unfortunately,

01:07:59.250 --> 01:08:01.989
I saw a version of it that made you care about

01:08:01.989 --> 01:08:04.409
it. I understand, but I cared about the one that

01:08:04.409 --> 01:08:07.929
I saw. And I felt like I don't understand how

01:08:07.929 --> 01:08:11.449
Spawn sort of escaped the zeitgeist. You don't

01:08:11.449 --> 01:08:13.980
ever hear about Spawn anymore. You know what

01:08:13.980 --> 01:08:17.100
I mean? There's all these superhero films, all

01:08:17.100 --> 01:08:19.119
these different things, but Spawn was unique,

01:08:19.340 --> 01:08:22.680
and it was really good and dark. Yeah, I always

01:08:22.680 --> 01:08:24.579
say if they did another one, you should do it

01:08:24.579 --> 01:08:28.560
just like the comic book. Make it hard R, or

01:08:28.560 --> 01:08:32.859
non -rated. Because, I mean, to do a Spawn PG,

01:08:33.260 --> 01:08:37.060
how we did PG -13, it's like, what do you want?

01:08:37.199 --> 01:08:38.539
Are you trying to go for a breakfast cereal,

01:08:38.680 --> 01:08:41.880
like Spawn O's or something? Like, come on, man.

01:08:41.920 --> 01:08:44.140
Let's go hard like the cartoon, right? See if

01:08:44.140 --> 01:08:47.619
you can find a clip from Spawn. Because I feel

01:08:47.619 --> 01:08:50.819
like no one talks about it anymore. It's kind

01:08:50.819 --> 01:08:52.720
of weird, man. They damn sure talked to me about

01:08:52.720 --> 01:08:59.039
it. Bro, it was good. What year was this? 97.

01:08:59.380 --> 01:09:25.050
Wow. Yeah. They were fucking great, man. The

01:09:25.050 --> 01:09:28.090
memories. Bro, that was a fucking great movie,

01:09:28.170 --> 01:09:31.350
man. New Line Cinema Presents. Yeah. That was

01:09:31.350 --> 01:09:33.960
a great movie. How many did you guys do? One.

01:09:34.039 --> 01:09:36.359
Just one. Just one. There was nothing else? Wasn't

01:09:36.359 --> 01:09:37.800
there something else, like a series? It was a

01:09:37.800 --> 01:09:40.340
cartoon first. That's right. Yeah, well, it was

01:09:40.340 --> 01:09:43.340
a comic book, then it was a cartoon on HBO. Oh,

01:09:43.359 --> 01:09:48.899
that's right. Yeah, yeah. Keith David was the

01:09:48.899 --> 01:09:53.500
voice of Spawn on that one. Oh. Yeah. Yep. And

01:09:53.500 --> 01:09:57.140
so, yeah. But that was a big hit. I think so.

01:09:58.760 --> 01:10:02.380
It made its money back. I mean, I remember it

01:10:02.380 --> 01:10:04.800
was very popular. Like, everyone was talking

01:10:04.800 --> 01:10:06.659
about it. People got excited about it. Especially

01:10:06.659 --> 01:10:09.060
people like me that liked the comic books. Right,

01:10:09.079 --> 01:10:11.939
right. They were very into it. I was always surprised.

01:10:12.079 --> 01:10:15.819
But it's weird to me that even the comic book

01:10:15.819 --> 01:10:18.539
spawn doesn't get brought up anymore. Right.

01:10:18.920 --> 01:10:21.779
Every now and then, like, I'm off doing a movie

01:10:21.779 --> 01:10:23.840
or whatever, I drive by comic book stores. I

01:10:23.840 --> 01:10:26.340
go in and I just start signing shit, right, the

01:10:26.340 --> 01:10:28.960
spawn stuff. So there's still stuff there. Oh,

01:10:28.960 --> 01:10:30.420
yeah. There's always going to be a hardcore fan

01:10:30.420 --> 01:10:32.520
base. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, you know, there's

01:10:32.520 --> 01:10:34.680
people, like, there's still hardcore about that.

01:10:34.739 --> 01:10:39.560
And then Todd McFarlane is always. talked about

01:10:39.560 --> 01:10:44.399
doing another Spawn for the last 25 years. It

01:10:44.399 --> 01:10:47.840
was huge. But the weird thing is, it's like,

01:10:47.960 --> 01:10:51.739
okay, I wish you all the best of luck, bro. But

01:10:51.739 --> 01:10:55.720
you created the comic book. When he's talking

01:10:55.720 --> 01:10:57.760
about doing another Spawn, I'm like, you haven't

01:10:57.760 --> 01:11:01.420
done a first one. Like the comic book. No, he's

01:11:01.420 --> 01:11:05.600
not a director. It's just like Stan Lee hasn't

01:11:05.600 --> 01:11:09.659
directed a Marvel movie. Right. And Tom McFarlane

01:11:09.659 --> 01:11:12.560
is talking about doing another Spawn, but I'm

01:11:12.560 --> 01:11:15.319
like, well, that would be the first time a person

01:11:15.319 --> 01:11:19.020
that created a comic book directed and produced

01:11:19.020 --> 01:11:24.100
a movie that I know of, right? Because even though

01:11:24.100 --> 01:11:26.760
he talks about he's going to do one, and he had

01:11:26.760 --> 01:11:29.819
this concept that he talked to me about, and

01:11:29.819 --> 01:11:31.659
then he said he wanted to, you know, I guess

01:11:31.659 --> 01:11:34.079
he wanted to use Jamie Foxx, and he talked about

01:11:34.079 --> 01:11:36.600
this concept that Spawn would be, you wouldn't

01:11:36.600 --> 01:11:39.399
see him. And it's like Jaws. He would never be

01:11:39.399 --> 01:11:41.720
around, but just people would get fucked up.

01:11:41.760 --> 01:11:44.779
All of a sudden, like a mist would come and people

01:11:44.779 --> 01:11:47.960
are destroyed. I'm like, good luck with that.

01:11:51.119 --> 01:11:54.739
You know, I don't know. But he's been talking

01:11:54.739 --> 01:11:57.640
about it for a while. And people say, oh, man,

01:11:57.840 --> 01:12:02.039
I'm sad that you're not the next spot, that they're

01:12:02.039 --> 01:12:05.039
using Jamie. I'm like, when is it going to happen?

01:12:06.150 --> 01:12:08.510
He's been saying that for a long time, but I'm

01:12:08.510 --> 01:12:11.470
going, hey, maybe somebody is going to give him

01:12:11.470 --> 01:12:14.210
that amount of money to do a movie when he's

01:12:14.210 --> 01:12:17.529
never directed anything before. Right. He hasn't

01:12:17.529 --> 01:12:21.310
directed anything before. He visited set a few

01:12:21.310 --> 01:12:26.770
times because he created a comic book. Directing

01:12:26.770 --> 01:12:28.829
a movie is something completely different. You

01:12:28.829 --> 01:12:31.149
know what I mean? So I'm like, all power to you

01:12:31.149 --> 01:12:35.989
if that's happening, but it's like. I wonder

01:12:35.989 --> 01:12:40.350
why people believe it. Yeah, that's a lot to

01:12:40.350 --> 01:12:43.630
bite off, especially a movie like that, which

01:12:43.630 --> 01:12:46.090
would probably be a large budget. Yeah. Yeah.

01:12:46.210 --> 01:12:49.930
Yeah. And then you're going to get the executives

01:12:49.930 --> 01:12:51.590
involved and they're going to fuck with it because

01:12:51.590 --> 01:12:53.750
they always have to have their say. Yeah, man.

01:12:54.069 --> 01:12:58.350
It's a miracle that a movie gets done the way

01:12:58.350 --> 01:13:02.220
it's intended, period. Yeah. I'm like. A lot

01:13:02.220 --> 01:13:04.359
of times when a movie works, I go, how did some

01:13:04.359 --> 01:13:06.899
executive not fuck this movie up? Right, right.

01:13:07.039 --> 01:13:08.779
I mean, I'm always like that. There's only a

01:13:08.779 --> 01:13:11.720
few guys that can get away with a movie where

01:13:11.720 --> 01:13:13.819
everybody just leaves them alone. There's a few

01:13:13.819 --> 01:13:16.579
Tarantinos out there. Let them go. Just let them

01:13:16.579 --> 01:13:18.939
go. Yeah, yeah. If you tried to make Once Upon

01:13:18.939 --> 01:13:21.079
a Time in Hollywood and you weren't a successful

01:13:21.079 --> 01:13:23.319
director, you were just some guy with an idea,

01:13:23.539 --> 01:13:25.039
someone would come along and fuck that up. Oh,

01:13:25.060 --> 01:13:28.159
absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Luckily, people

01:13:28.159 --> 01:13:30.939
are leaving me alone. I've been directing and

01:13:30.939 --> 01:13:33.039
doing my own thing. They go, OK, you got this.

01:13:33.159 --> 01:13:35.279
OK, like I say, I'll give you the body count.

01:13:35.439 --> 01:13:37.899
But now if I could put stuff in it, you know.

01:13:37.920 --> 01:13:40.359
What is going on with Jamie Foxx doing Tyson?

01:13:40.819 --> 01:13:43.760
Because that's been rumored for a decade at least.

01:13:43.920 --> 01:13:46.079
Yeah, that's another thing. It's like weird that

01:13:46.079 --> 01:13:48.859
Jamie Foxx wants to do a Tyson and a Spawn. But

01:13:48.859 --> 01:13:51.140
it's like, I don't know. I don't take it personally.

01:13:51.399 --> 01:13:54.960
Very talented guy. But yeah, I think. Jamie does

01:13:54.960 --> 01:13:59.119
a very good impression of Mike Tyson. Yeah, but

01:13:59.119 --> 01:14:03.060
you've got to gain like 100 pounds. Right. He's

01:14:03.060 --> 01:14:06.680
got to pack on that meat at 50. But then why?

01:14:06.979 --> 01:14:10.880
I just sit there and I go, why? When Tyson's

01:14:10.880 --> 01:14:15.659
life itself has been very transparent. Right.

01:14:15.899 --> 01:14:20.520
And so you can see the real guy in documentary

01:14:20.520 --> 01:14:23.810
form and everything else. What? story do you

01:14:23.810 --> 01:14:26.109
have to tell that's true I'm not trying to be

01:14:26.109 --> 01:14:28.630
a hater but I'm like I just I'm I'm just curious

01:14:28.630 --> 01:14:30.409
the only thing that would be interesting is seeing

01:14:30.409 --> 01:14:33.750
like Jamie do it seeing him pull like you pulled

01:14:33.750 --> 01:14:36.989
off Ray Charles like seeing him pull it off that

01:14:36.989 --> 01:14:38.949
would that would be the appeal of it I think

01:14:38.949 --> 01:14:41.850
right but yeah I in my personal opinion I don't

01:14:41.850 --> 01:14:43.689
think that's enough you gotta tell the story

01:14:43.689 --> 01:14:45.130
right I know what you're saying yeah you gotta

01:14:45.130 --> 01:14:47.029
you gotta it's got to be some compelling story

01:14:47.880 --> 01:14:50.760
I mean, hell, people saw Titanic. You know how

01:14:50.760 --> 01:14:54.340
it's going to end. But he had to present a story

01:14:54.340 --> 01:14:59.159
there. Jamie is so versatile. He is. There's

01:14:59.159 --> 01:15:01.640
very few guys that can do all the different things

01:15:01.640 --> 01:15:05.680
that he can do. He can sing. He can act. He can

01:15:05.680 --> 01:15:08.359
do stand -up. And he can do all kinds of different

01:15:08.359 --> 01:15:13.159
characters. And he's so believable in so many

01:15:13.159 --> 01:15:14.720
different roles. You know what I watched the

01:15:14.720 --> 01:15:16.989
other day? which is a fucking great movie that

01:15:16.989 --> 01:15:19.270
I forgot was so great, is Collateral. Oh, hell

01:15:19.270 --> 01:15:23.029
yeah. Oh, my God. No, no. When Jamie had Collateral

01:15:23.029 --> 01:15:27.409
and Ray, to me, you couldn't have had a better

01:15:27.409 --> 01:15:30.409
year. Right. Two completely different human beings.

01:15:30.689 --> 01:15:33.069
Oh, my God. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. And

01:15:33.069 --> 01:15:36.670
he became those people. He became Ray Charles.

01:15:36.869 --> 01:15:40.180
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And as good

01:15:40.180 --> 01:15:42.779
as he can sing, him singing as Ray Charles was

01:15:42.779 --> 01:15:45.800
insane. It's one of the best performances ever.

01:15:46.100 --> 01:15:50.920
Ever. Ever. But so is Collateral. He really played

01:15:50.920 --> 01:15:53.199
that dude in Collateral. You believed it. And

01:15:53.199 --> 01:15:57.840
fucking Tom Cruise. Oh, my God. Tom Cruise really

01:15:57.840 --> 01:16:00.619
proved something to me in that damn movie. Because

01:16:00.619 --> 01:16:03.619
I would never think I would ever be scared of

01:16:03.619 --> 01:16:07.020
Tom freaking Cruise. Right. And how... Convincing

01:16:07.020 --> 01:16:10.899
he was. He's a bad motherfucker. Yes. He's crazy

01:16:10.899 --> 01:16:14.500
as bat shit, but he's a bad motherfucker. He

01:16:14.500 --> 01:16:16.159
brought it in that movie. You have to be that

01:16:16.159 --> 01:16:18.020
crazy to do all the stunts that that guy does.

01:16:18.140 --> 01:16:20.220
He's 60 years old. He's jumping off buildings

01:16:20.220 --> 01:16:22.340
and shit and breaking his ankle. Yeah, just like

01:16:22.340 --> 01:16:25.600
Johnny Depp. I'm like, Johnny Depp, when he did

01:16:25.600 --> 01:16:29.739
Black Mass, I'm like, oh, you had that in you?

01:16:29.840 --> 01:16:31.840
Right, right, right. Holy shit. And just like

01:16:31.840 --> 01:16:35.060
with Tom Cruise, I'm like. Him having that character

01:16:35.060 --> 01:16:38.100
in him? There's a scene in Collateral that tactical

01:16:38.100 --> 01:16:42.199
instructors play. Yes. The double tap. Yes. He

01:16:42.199 --> 01:16:44.960
whips it back. Double tap, double tap. He knocks

01:16:44.960 --> 01:16:46.579
the guy's gun out of the way and pulls it out.

01:16:46.920 --> 01:16:50.819
And it's so fast and so smooth. See if you can

01:16:50.819 --> 01:16:53.539
find that scene, Jamie. It's a scene where they're

01:16:53.539 --> 01:16:56.020
trying to take Tom Cruise's briefcase and he's

01:16:56.020 --> 01:17:00.760
in an alleyway. Yep. Yeah, I played that over

01:17:00.760 --> 01:17:03.920
and over myself. The amount of times that he

01:17:03.920 --> 01:17:07.539
must have drilled that to get that, unholster

01:17:07.539 --> 01:17:10.140
the gun, pull it out, shoot him, shoot the other

01:17:10.140 --> 01:17:13.619
dude so smooth and the way he did it so professional.

01:17:13.760 --> 01:17:17.039
I mean, it looks like a legit hitman. Oh, absolutely.

01:17:17.520 --> 01:17:23.279
Absolutely. Yeah, that character, I mean, from

01:17:23.279 --> 01:17:27.590
start to finish. To me, proved a lot. Yeah. I

01:17:27.590 --> 01:17:31.310
mean, he embodied that guy. And you know it is.

01:17:32.310 --> 01:17:38.109
Is that my briefcase? Is it your briefcase? Yeah,

01:17:38.130 --> 01:17:41.310
it is. Why, you want it back? About your wallet.

01:17:43.909 --> 01:17:50.609
What else you got for me, huh? Come on, son.

01:17:58.689 --> 01:18:02.569
Yeah. I actually visited that set when they were

01:18:02.569 --> 01:18:04.970
shooting that. Not that scene, but it was another

01:18:04.970 --> 01:18:12.430
day. And I remember it was weird because they

01:18:12.430 --> 01:18:14.109
were shooting something, and they were shooting

01:18:14.109 --> 01:18:18.890
behind Tom Cruise's head. And he had eight camera

01:18:18.890 --> 01:18:24.350
angles just behind his head. I'm like, and I'm

01:18:24.350 --> 01:18:28.729
looking at the video village where it's. They

01:18:28.729 --> 01:18:34.010
made sure they had a choice of whatever perfect

01:18:34.010 --> 01:18:36.949
thing that they want. It was the craziest thing.

01:18:37.010 --> 01:18:41.029
And I guess Michael Mann, he's known for, like,

01:18:41.029 --> 01:18:46.750
shooting a lot. But it was, like, eight cameras

01:18:46.750 --> 01:18:49.810
that was just behind the dude. That's crazy.

01:18:50.109 --> 01:18:53.529
Yeah. I'm like, this is a whole other, like,

01:18:53.529 --> 01:18:56.329
level. Yeah, it was crazy. It's a great fucking

01:18:56.329 --> 01:18:59.970
movie. That movie holds up. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

01:19:00.810 --> 01:19:04.289
That's prime Jamie, man. Yep, yep. And the fact

01:19:04.289 --> 01:19:07.210
that he's got that much range, that he can do

01:19:07.210 --> 01:19:09.529
this nerdy dude who's terrified, doesn't know

01:19:09.529 --> 01:19:10.890
what the fuck is going on, he's just driving

01:19:10.890 --> 01:19:13.050
a car, and all of a sudden he has this hitman

01:19:13.050 --> 01:19:14.630
with him, and then he gets wrapped up in this

01:19:14.630 --> 01:19:17.689
whole thing. Yeah, but as a fan, I want to see

01:19:17.689 --> 01:19:20.090
him do something else like that. Right, right.

01:19:20.109 --> 01:19:21.869
You know what I mean? Like something like...

01:19:22.079 --> 01:19:25.260
that requires what he can do. And there's a lot,

01:19:25.340 --> 01:19:26.739
you know, that's one of the things, there's not

01:19:26.739 --> 01:19:29.840
a lot of things out there sometimes. You know,

01:19:29.880 --> 01:19:32.880
so, you know, he's been doing things that I think

01:19:32.880 --> 01:19:37.180
show, you know, certain parts, but like to where

01:19:37.180 --> 01:19:41.060
he was going in Collateral and Ray, you know,

01:19:41.060 --> 01:19:43.739
it'd be nice to see that stuff again. It's got

01:19:43.739 --> 01:19:46.920
to be hard to find those roles, right? And when

01:19:46.920 --> 01:19:49.279
you find those roles, there's probably like...

01:19:49.960 --> 01:19:53.119
six or seven A -list dudes that they have, like,

01:19:53.180 --> 01:19:55.460
on a board somewhere, and they're trying to figure

01:19:55.460 --> 01:19:57.880
out who's the guy for this. Yeah, but I believe—

01:19:57.880 --> 01:19:59.579
Who's going to sell the most. I believe you've

01:19:59.579 --> 01:20:02.380
got to create your own stuff, man. Put it this

01:20:02.380 --> 01:20:04.920
way. Nobody was going to write Black Dynamite

01:20:04.920 --> 01:20:06.739
for me. Right, right, right. You know what I

01:20:06.739 --> 01:20:09.720
mean? Right. You know, my thing is largely creating

01:20:09.720 --> 01:20:11.640
my own lane. That was a fun movie, by the way.

01:20:11.739 --> 01:20:14.220
Oh, thanks, man. Really fun. Thanks, man. So,

01:20:14.220 --> 01:20:19.420
yeah, man. So, luckily, like, I— I enjoyed writing.

01:20:19.560 --> 01:20:22.840
I was always looked at everything from I was

01:20:22.840 --> 01:20:26.600
always fascinated about this industry. And I

01:20:26.600 --> 01:20:29.239
showed a lot of things as a writer separate from

01:20:29.239 --> 01:20:32.439
the acting thing. And so, you know, just putting

01:20:32.439 --> 01:20:34.880
it all together is something that's like I really

01:20:34.880 --> 01:20:37.539
enjoy doing. How do you dedicate your time when

01:20:37.539 --> 01:20:39.840
you're writing? Do you just like have an idea

01:20:39.840 --> 01:20:42.119
and say, OK, for the next X weeks, I'm going

01:20:42.119 --> 01:20:43.960
to sit down and dedicate myself to this? Dude,

01:20:43.979 --> 01:20:45.960
it's all different. A lot of times I will see

01:20:45.960 --> 01:20:48.579
the entire movie. Like when I did Black Dynamite,

01:20:48.619 --> 01:20:56.079
dude, I was in China going to set. I was in Shanghai.

01:20:56.880 --> 01:21:01.180
And I was listening to James Brown's Superbad.

01:21:02.079 --> 01:21:05.899
And I just started thinking about, I'm laughing.

01:21:06.520 --> 01:21:08.640
I'm in the back of this car and there's a driver

01:21:08.640 --> 01:21:10.640
wondering what the hell is going on with me.

01:21:10.880 --> 01:21:14.520
I'm seeing the whole goddamn movie, including.

01:21:15.119 --> 01:21:18.579
a nunchuck fight scene with Richard Nixon. And

01:21:18.579 --> 01:21:23.300
I'm laughing. And, you know, I started jotting

01:21:23.300 --> 01:21:26.739
stuff down because it occurred to me, man. I

01:21:26.739 --> 01:21:29.279
was like, I mean, one day I was thinking like,

01:21:29.380 --> 01:21:34.180
wow, man, like growing up we had Shaft and we

01:21:34.180 --> 01:21:38.859
had Superfly and the Mac and posters like that

01:21:38.859 --> 01:21:42.060
that we idolized. And I'm going, those were pimps.

01:21:43.149 --> 01:21:44.890
There was something wrong with my childhood.

01:21:45.109 --> 01:21:50.970
Why am I like the Mac? Like that's a hero. And

01:21:50.970 --> 01:21:53.270
so it made me really think about it. And I'm

01:21:53.270 --> 01:21:56.909
like, I'm looking at these movies and like Jim

01:21:56.909 --> 01:22:00.050
Brown and Fred Williamson are like killing like

01:22:00.050 --> 01:22:03.770
60 people. And it's OK. Everybody's like this.

01:22:04.439 --> 01:22:06.500
They have a club, and they got all these women.

01:22:07.020 --> 01:22:09.239
And I'm like, this is actually hilarious. So

01:22:09.239 --> 01:22:12.380
I do a movie that depicted it exactly like it

01:22:12.380 --> 01:22:14.920
is. I'm thinking about this. One of the biggest

01:22:14.920 --> 01:22:18.659
movies of that time was Three the Hard Way. I

01:22:18.659 --> 01:22:20.800
don't know if you remember that movie. Jim Brown,

01:22:20.960 --> 01:22:25.420
Fred Williamson, and Jim Kelly. Oh, yeah. I forgot

01:22:25.420 --> 01:22:28.539
about Jim Kelly. Three the Hard Way. What was

01:22:28.539 --> 01:22:31.800
it about? It had the three predominant blaxploitation

01:22:31.800 --> 01:22:36.069
stars, right? And the movie was about an evil

01:22:36.069 --> 01:22:42.390
Dr. Feather who had these liters of liquid that

01:22:42.390 --> 01:22:45.489
he was going to put in the water systems of L

01:22:45.489 --> 01:22:48.529
.A., Chicago, and New York that were going to

01:22:48.529 --> 01:22:52.069
kill all the black people. It's not a comedy.

01:22:52.489 --> 01:22:55.869
That's the movie? It's not a comedy. It was going

01:22:55.869 --> 01:22:59.449
to give sickle cell anemia to all the black people.

01:23:02.539 --> 01:23:04.420
The conspiratorial thing, I've been a black man

01:23:04.420 --> 01:23:07.539
for a long time, and it is really funny because

01:23:07.539 --> 01:23:11.340
in the community, conspiracy is a big thing,

01:23:11.439 --> 01:23:14.680
right? So like that whole conspiratorial thing,

01:23:14.779 --> 01:23:16.739
oh, they trying to get you, that kind of a thing,

01:23:16.819 --> 01:23:21.180
it really, its engine was that, that paranoia

01:23:21.180 --> 01:23:24.600
that this leader of liquid was going to kill.

01:23:25.119 --> 01:23:27.100
Black people. Well, there was so much evidence

01:23:27.100 --> 01:23:30.140
that those conspiracies were real, like the Tuskegee.

01:23:30.300 --> 01:23:33.979
But of course, that's something that's like it's

01:23:33.979 --> 01:23:39.600
on its feet, though. But come on, a leader, something

01:23:39.600 --> 01:23:43.180
this big, in the water systems, that was going

01:23:43.180 --> 01:23:45.979
to kill all the black people. And that's not

01:23:45.979 --> 01:23:49.579
a comedy. That was a serious movie. But when

01:23:49.579 --> 01:23:53.560
you look at it, that's hilarious. It's absolutely

01:23:53.560 --> 01:23:56.479
hilarious to think that you can do a movie about

01:23:56.479 --> 01:24:00.619
that. So to do a movie, I thought that really,

01:24:00.619 --> 01:24:05.359
really talked about that time period where it

01:24:05.359 --> 01:24:08.380
was kind of this overcorrection because, you

01:24:08.380 --> 01:24:11.460
know, you had in the 60s, there were like, you

01:24:11.460 --> 01:24:13.739
know, butlers and maids and all that kind of

01:24:13.739 --> 01:24:18.039
stuff. But now you had these super overcorrected

01:24:18.039 --> 01:24:21.579
badasses that could just do anything. Right.

01:24:22.199 --> 01:24:24.319
And I thought it was hilarious to look at it

01:24:24.319 --> 01:24:28.100
and treat it as if it were, like, back in that

01:24:28.100 --> 01:24:30.880
day, like a lost movie. Actually, Tarantino was

01:24:30.880 --> 01:24:33.840
somebody I was talking to about that whole thing

01:24:33.840 --> 01:24:37.359
when I was putting Black Dynamite together. And

01:24:37.359 --> 01:24:39.319
he had certain ideas, but, you know, I kind of

01:24:39.319 --> 01:24:41.680
went my own direction with it. But, yeah, man,

01:24:41.720 --> 01:24:46.520
so, yeah, things like that. Like, you know, I've

01:24:46.520 --> 01:24:49.199
gotten to a place where I'm putting these things

01:24:49.199 --> 01:24:53.529
together that really. interests me. And I'm finding

01:24:53.529 --> 01:24:55.250
that there's an audience that likes it as well.

01:24:55.489 --> 01:24:59.649
But yeah, man, so, you know, it just occurred

01:24:59.649 --> 01:25:02.850
to me that it was bizarre. Yeah. Yeah. So, I

01:25:02.850 --> 01:25:05.130
mean, you know. So for that movie, that movie

01:25:05.130 --> 01:25:08.390
just came to you. Yeah. But it came to me just

01:25:08.390 --> 01:25:11.630
like the whole movie came to me in a ride to

01:25:11.630 --> 01:25:15.310
set. Is that normal for ideas or do you sometimes

01:25:15.310 --> 01:25:17.729
sit down and say, like, I want to write an idea

01:25:17.729 --> 01:25:21.210
about blank? Sometimes. Sometimes. Like I have

01:25:21.210 --> 01:25:23.310
a movie that the next movie I'm going to do is

01:25:23.310 --> 01:25:27.130
a sequel to a movie I did called As Good As Dead.

01:25:27.329 --> 01:25:31.829
Right. And it became Samuel Goldwyn's, one of

01:25:31.829 --> 01:25:34.890
their most successful movies. I wrote the idea.

01:25:35.069 --> 01:25:38.829
It was based off my brother. My brother, he went

01:25:38.829 --> 01:25:41.109
from Florida into Mexico and started a family.

01:25:41.189 --> 01:25:44.630
He just fell in love with Mexico. And I kind

01:25:44.630 --> 01:25:49.510
of based my character on him. And he's basically

01:25:49.510 --> 01:25:52.909
a cop that's hiding out in Mexico and trying

01:25:52.909 --> 01:25:57.119
to avoid... this syndicate or whatever that's

01:25:57.119 --> 01:26:02.340
trying to kill him. But that movie just came

01:26:02.340 --> 01:26:06.720
to me. I wrote it. We were in production like

01:26:06.720 --> 01:26:10.920
two months later, and we actually got the movie

01:26:10.920 --> 01:26:13.520
done within a year. How did you get it made so

01:26:13.520 --> 01:26:16.560
quick? Yeah, I mean, they responded to the script,

01:26:16.600 --> 01:26:20.359
and it was kind of like a grown -up Karate Kid

01:26:20.359 --> 01:26:23.739
in a way. So my character, you don't know what

01:26:23.739 --> 01:26:26.060
was this black dude doing working construction

01:26:26.060 --> 01:26:30.239
in Mexico. And he's got his Wing Chun dummy.

01:26:30.279 --> 01:26:32.319
He's training in his backyard. And it's a kid

01:26:32.319 --> 01:26:35.180
who's trying to avoid the gangs that he befriends

01:26:35.180 --> 01:26:38.920
that he teaches this unique kind of martial art.

01:26:39.199 --> 01:26:42.380
And so one thing leads to another. This kid gets

01:26:42.380 --> 01:26:45.359
good at it and they trace the style back to my

01:26:45.359 --> 01:26:49.420
character. And then. You know, then the bad guys

01:26:49.420 --> 01:26:51.260
are trying to kill me and I have to fight back.

01:26:51.439 --> 01:26:54.159
So what we're doing, we're about to do a sequel.

01:26:54.380 --> 01:26:56.539
I start that in a couple of weeks, actually.

01:26:56.640 --> 01:27:02.119
So I wrote that one. But, yeah, so I feel like,

01:27:02.220 --> 01:27:07.739
I don't know, I'm still a fan of movies. I don't,

01:27:07.739 --> 01:27:11.060
I wouldn't write something I wouldn't want to

01:27:11.060 --> 01:27:14.539
see. And I've seen a lot. You know, I think I

01:27:14.539 --> 01:27:17.470
understand this industry. I understand there's

01:27:17.470 --> 01:27:20.869
a lot of stories that I think could be told with

01:27:20.869 --> 01:27:25.289
fresh ways and with the action and martial arts

01:27:25.289 --> 01:27:28.909
that could be new and exciting. I'm getting to

01:27:28.909 --> 01:27:31.430
a place where I'm trying to make fight scenes

01:27:31.430 --> 01:27:36.550
look very real, including choreographing mistakes.

01:27:37.590 --> 01:27:40.310
You know what I mean? I think people have become

01:27:40.310 --> 01:27:44.430
so much more sophisticated watching UFC fights

01:27:44.430 --> 01:27:46.359
and all that type of stuff. I think you've got

01:27:46.359 --> 01:27:49.460
to raise the bar to make something look real.

01:27:50.020 --> 01:27:52.479
And there's a lot of the stuff that's in the

01:27:52.479 --> 01:27:57.500
superhero movies and whatever that you just kind

01:27:57.500 --> 01:28:01.239
of go, okay, you're seeing choreography for choreography's

01:28:01.239 --> 01:28:04.420
sake. Right. And you're not invested because

01:28:04.420 --> 01:28:06.000
you don't feel like you're looking at a real

01:28:06.000 --> 01:28:09.220
fight. And so I like to try to, you know, use

01:28:09.220 --> 01:28:11.500
my platform to step that up a bit. Yeah, that's

01:28:11.500 --> 01:28:14.060
hard, especially as a person who is a martial

01:28:14.060 --> 01:28:17.140
artist, to watch fight scenes and go, you have

01:28:17.140 --> 01:28:19.180
to kind of suspend disbelief and go, all right,

01:28:19.239 --> 01:28:20.840
let's just play out. Well, yeah, kind of like,

01:28:20.880 --> 01:28:22.539
you know, it's weird, but, you know, kind of

01:28:22.539 --> 01:28:24.300
full circle. It's kind of going back to the way

01:28:24.300 --> 01:28:26.779
Bruce Lee did stuff. And he's a little faster

01:28:26.779 --> 01:28:28.520
than the other person. He has a little bit more

01:28:28.520 --> 01:28:33.460
technique. And, you know, if you imagine, like,

01:28:33.520 --> 01:28:36.699
even if I imagine you in a real fight. your technique's

01:28:36.699 --> 01:28:39.260
not going nowhere. And other people are not going

01:28:39.260 --> 01:28:41.479
to have that same technique. You beat somebody

01:28:41.479 --> 01:28:44.520
to the punch, you do things that would logically

01:28:44.520 --> 01:28:49.279
give you the edge, that's what you shoot. You

01:28:49.279 --> 01:28:51.760
know what I mean? Right. Yeah, so it's not like

01:28:51.760 --> 01:28:54.319
you got to do a lot of camera tricks. If you're

01:28:54.319 --> 01:28:56.539
moving faster and stronger than another person,

01:28:56.880 --> 01:29:02.859
well, there it is. There it is. So luckily, you

01:29:02.859 --> 01:29:05.810
know, I mean... I can put things on screen that

01:29:05.810 --> 01:29:09.390
kind of resemble what things might look like,

01:29:09.449 --> 01:29:12.369
you know, and you get the benefit of the doubt

01:29:12.369 --> 01:29:15.770
because, you know, you're in a heroic position.

01:29:16.170 --> 01:29:18.989
It's just very hard to do that. It's very hard

01:29:18.989 --> 01:29:21.750
to make it look real. There's a real art to that.

01:29:22.069 --> 01:29:24.449
Yeah, yeah, but like with the movie that you

01:29:24.449 --> 01:29:28.449
turned down, Blood and Bone. I turned down John

01:29:28.449 --> 01:29:31.869
Wick 4, too, though. I turned down a lot of movies.

01:29:31.930 --> 01:29:34.390
You do. You did the right thing, because what

01:29:34.390 --> 01:29:38.409
you're doing, this could not be more up your

01:29:38.409 --> 01:29:40.890
alley, doing the things that you're doing. John

01:29:40.890 --> 01:29:43.130
Wick was hard. I'm a giant John Wick fan. Are

01:29:43.130 --> 01:29:45.810
you? Especially John Wick 1. Well, there's going

01:29:45.810 --> 01:29:48.829
to be a John Wick 7, so you can decide to do

01:29:48.829 --> 01:29:51.569
it if you want to. They got kind of crazy. They're

01:29:51.569 --> 01:29:54.489
over the top now. But even John Wick 1 was totally

01:29:54.489 --> 01:29:59.409
unrealistic. Oh, man. But so fun. I fucking love

01:29:59.409 --> 01:30:01.670
those movies. Yeah, well, I got something that's

01:30:01.670 --> 01:30:04.329
kind of in that vein that I just finished. There's

01:30:04.329 --> 01:30:07.689
a lot of body count, but a lot of CQB. I've been

01:30:07.689 --> 01:30:11.649
studying that for a while. What is CQB? Close

01:30:11.649 --> 01:30:14.630
Quarter Combat. Oh, okay. Of course, Close Quarter

01:30:14.630 --> 01:30:18.750
Battle. But, you know, I've been doing, like,

01:30:18.770 --> 01:30:21.729
you know, a lot of, like, tactical training.

01:30:23.560 --> 01:30:26.960
Kind of getting myself, I may compete at some

01:30:26.960 --> 01:30:30.880
point. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. I'm pretty into

01:30:30.880 --> 01:30:33.539
it. Where do you train at? Well, a lot of places.

01:30:33.640 --> 01:30:37.020
I train with a guy named Tyler Gray. He's Delta

01:30:37.020 --> 01:30:40.520
Force. I have a lot of friends who are, like,

01:30:40.600 --> 01:30:42.739
you know, Special Force guys. You ever go to

01:30:42.739 --> 01:30:45.539
Terran Tactical? Oh, of course, yeah. Yeah, I

01:30:45.539 --> 01:30:48.659
go to Terran quite a bit. That guy's the best.

01:30:48.739 --> 01:30:51.840
Oh, yeah. He's a man. He's amazing. You want

01:30:51.840 --> 01:30:53.819
to talk about someone who's very technical. Oh,

01:30:53.819 --> 01:30:58.340
my God. He shoots from the hip better than anybody

01:30:58.340 --> 01:31:02.619
using a laser. No, he's preposterous. It's unreal.

01:31:02.779 --> 01:31:06.960
Always iron sights. Yeah. He uses red dots, but

01:31:06.960 --> 01:31:09.420
he prefers iron sights. He's like, they never

01:31:09.420 --> 01:31:11.859
fail. They never go wrong. Yeah. And he's so

01:31:11.859 --> 01:31:15.020
crazy accurate. It's wild to watch. And when

01:31:15.020 --> 01:31:18.189
you think about how long. How fast could you

01:31:18.189 --> 01:31:20.270
just take out everybody in this damn room? It's

01:31:20.270 --> 01:31:22.529
kind of... It's kind of spooky. Yeah, it is spooky.

01:31:22.850 --> 01:31:25.350
Yeah. Well, it's also, he's so calm about it,

01:31:25.369 --> 01:31:27.470
too. Yeah, yeah. It's weird, like, almost, like,

01:31:27.470 --> 01:31:30.670
autistic. Like, weird, fucking Rain Man -ish.

01:31:30.869 --> 01:31:34.670
Yeah, yeah. Like, what the fuck? When you watch

01:31:34.670 --> 01:31:36.789
him do it, like, many times I've gone to his

01:31:36.789 --> 01:31:39.229
range and trained, and then, you know, people

01:31:39.229 --> 01:31:41.960
goad him into it. Like, do a run. Like, do this.

01:31:42.260 --> 01:31:43.920
And he's like, okay, I'm going to do this. I'm

01:31:43.920 --> 01:31:45.079
going to do that. I'm going to do this. I'm going

01:31:45.079 --> 01:31:46.340
to do that. And then I'm going to pull this out

01:31:46.340 --> 01:31:51.840
right here. Yeah. It's crazy. You're like, what

01:31:51.840 --> 01:31:54.220
the fuck did I just watch? That's crazy. And

01:31:54.220 --> 01:31:56.439
then you see how many times he's won the championship.

01:31:56.640 --> 01:31:58.800
Oh, yeah. Ridiculous. And like, there's only

01:31:58.800 --> 01:32:01.500
a few people that won consecutive years. And

01:32:01.500 --> 01:32:05.100
he's got like seven years in a row and just chunks.

01:32:05.140 --> 01:32:08.579
I'm like, this is crazy. Yeah. He's a very unique

01:32:08.579 --> 01:32:11.890
talent. Yeah. Very unique talent. Yeah, a buddy

01:32:11.890 --> 01:32:16.029
of mine, like Tyler Gray, he's been Delta. He's

01:32:16.029 --> 01:32:21.670
been decorating. Oh, my God, his place in Vegas,

01:32:21.930 --> 01:32:28.569
he creates guns. And he's got more in his arsenal

01:32:28.569 --> 01:32:32.970
than every gun store you can imagine. But he's

01:32:32.970 --> 01:32:35.229
something else. One of the most mellow people

01:32:35.229 --> 01:32:38.670
you ever want to meet in your life. He's been

01:32:38.670 --> 01:32:42.720
the guy. been the consultant and director on

01:32:42.720 --> 01:32:47.060
Navy SEALs for years. But I got a lot of friends

01:32:47.060 --> 01:32:51.579
doing that. So my brother, he just retired from

01:32:51.579 --> 01:32:55.100
Secret Service. And, you know, you know Danny

01:32:55.100 --> 01:33:01.319
Hester? No. He was a former Mr. Olympia, classic

01:33:01.319 --> 01:33:05.000
physique. But he's gotten into, I mean, I shoot

01:33:05.000 --> 01:33:07.359
with these guys all the time. And actually Flex

01:33:07.359 --> 01:33:11.369
Wheeler. A lot of the guys are. Into the gun

01:33:11.369 --> 01:33:16.930
stuff. So we go set up stuff. But once you start

01:33:16.930 --> 01:33:20.010
training, you realize how difficult it is and

01:33:20.010 --> 01:33:23.489
how long the learning curve is. Because you think,

01:33:23.529 --> 01:33:25.430
oh, you point, you pull the trigger, what's the

01:33:25.430 --> 01:33:28.189
big deal? Then you get into it, and then you

01:33:28.189 --> 01:33:30.729
see someone like Taron or someone who's competing,

01:33:30.909 --> 01:33:34.149
and you go, oh, this is just like everything

01:33:34.149 --> 01:33:38.079
else. karate like jiu -jitsu like there's levels

01:33:38.079 --> 01:33:40.779
oh yeah levels and levels and levels yeah and

01:33:40.779 --> 01:33:43.560
you see people competing and you go oh wow yeah

01:33:43.560 --> 01:33:46.460
i'd like to do that someday yeah yeah you're

01:33:46.460 --> 01:33:49.260
in a great place for it yes Yeah, Texas is a

01:33:49.260 --> 01:33:51.279
great place for it. Oh, yeah. There's a staccato

01:33:51.279 --> 01:33:53.039
range that we go to sometimes. It's awesome.

01:33:53.220 --> 01:33:54.920
They have all these different setups out there.

01:33:54.939 --> 01:33:57.539
They have this old west town with all these different,

01:33:57.560 --> 01:33:59.520
like, targets set up, and you run from doorway

01:33:59.520 --> 01:34:02.340
to doorway. It's pretty badass. Yeah, John Jones,

01:34:02.479 --> 01:34:04.380
I see, is doing quite a bit of that stuff. John

01:34:04.380 --> 01:34:06.960
Jones is a fucking scary human being. He's so

01:34:06.960 --> 01:34:08.920
scary. Yeah, yeah. And if you get past him, he's

01:34:08.920 --> 01:34:11.239
got his fucking dog Dutch. Yeah. Which is, you

01:34:11.239 --> 01:34:13.039
know, he brings a Belgian Malinois everywhere

01:34:13.039 --> 01:34:17.439
he goes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know Mike. Good

01:34:17.439 --> 01:34:20.140
for you. friend, Josh Barnett, he's at Terrence

01:34:20.140 --> 01:34:22.300
a lot, too. Yeah, he's another scary human being.

01:34:22.399 --> 01:34:24.680
Yeah, yeah. And a very analytical, intelligent,

01:34:24.899 --> 01:34:27.899
very well -read. He is, like, Jeopardy smart.

01:34:28.119 --> 01:34:31.659
He's, like, ridiculous. There's not many things

01:34:31.659 --> 01:34:35.760
that he doesn't know. He's amazing. I watched

01:34:35.760 --> 01:34:39.460
you guys on this show. I was very flattered.

01:34:40.380 --> 01:34:43.479
He mentioned Out of nowhere, he started talking

01:34:43.479 --> 01:34:47.199
about how he was inspired by myself and my wife.

01:34:47.899 --> 01:34:51.180
And that, you know, actually got me real choked

01:34:51.180 --> 01:34:54.760
up. Yeah, I was like, what? Josh is a great guy.

01:34:54.979 --> 01:34:57.739
Yeah. You know, incidentally, my wife is somebody

01:34:57.739 --> 01:35:01.640
that, I don't know, you met her a long time ago.

01:35:01.739 --> 01:35:05.699
You last saw her sliding down the Luxor. Oh,

01:35:05.779 --> 01:35:10.960
wow. That's crazy. Yep. That's crazy. On Fear

01:35:10.960 --> 01:35:13.899
Factor. On Fear Factor. Wow. Yep. She was sliding

01:35:13.899 --> 01:35:16.220
down the Luxor when you last saw her. That's

01:35:16.220 --> 01:35:21.420
crazy. She slid right into my arms. That's awesome.

01:35:21.439 --> 01:35:24.840
Yeah, we've done our sixth movie together. Oh,

01:35:24.840 --> 01:35:27.720
wow. Yeah, so we've been, you know, we got two,

01:35:27.880 --> 01:35:31.819
our teenagers are, we got one less, well, we

01:35:31.819 --> 01:35:33.899
got two left in the house. We're going to college

01:35:33.899 --> 01:35:37.170
now. So, you know, we're about to be empty nesters.

01:35:37.170 --> 01:35:40.770
Yeah, man. So, yeah, it's wild how these things

01:35:40.770 --> 01:35:44.390
kind of. It is wild. Yeah. It is wild. Yeah.

01:35:44.810 --> 01:35:48.930
Josh is one of the – he's like one of the best

01:35:48.930 --> 01:35:52.890
examples to me of when people think of a martial

01:35:52.890 --> 01:35:55.069
artist or think of a cage fighter, former UFC

01:35:55.069 --> 01:35:57.369
heavyweight champion, and you think of a guy

01:35:57.369 --> 01:36:00.569
like, oh, probably some brute. Have a conversation

01:36:00.569 --> 01:36:03.170
with him. Yes. And you realize the depth of his

01:36:03.170 --> 01:36:05.729
intellect and the depth of his knowledge, like

01:36:05.729 --> 01:36:08.680
how much he knows about – Nietzsche. He can quote

01:36:08.680 --> 01:36:11.720
Nietzsche. Oh, my God. He's so well -read. He

01:36:11.720 --> 01:36:15.340
makes his own whiskey. Yeah. He's a very interesting

01:36:15.340 --> 01:36:17.800
guy. Man, what a renaissance guy, man. Exactly.

01:36:17.800 --> 01:36:19.859
A real renaissance guy. Yeah, we usually have

01:36:19.859 --> 01:36:22.479
the same birthday, so sometimes we... throw parties

01:36:22.479 --> 01:36:24.380
together. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, when he's

01:36:24.380 --> 01:36:27.319
in town. He's always in Japan and just all over

01:36:27.319 --> 01:36:30.100
the place, man. He's an amazing human being.

01:36:30.199 --> 01:36:33.279
He really is. Yeah, yeah. And again, one of the

01:36:33.279 --> 01:36:35.979
best examples, like when people have a stereotype

01:36:35.979 --> 01:36:38.760
of what they think a cage fighter is. Yeah. And

01:36:38.760 --> 01:36:41.180
Josh was the youngest ever UFC heavyweight champion.

01:36:41.359 --> 01:36:44.479
Yeah, yeah. And man, that's probably, like, I've

01:36:44.479 --> 01:36:48.020
trained more with him than so many people. Like,

01:36:48.020 --> 01:36:52.640
you know, and it's just, What a great friendship

01:36:52.640 --> 01:36:57.060
and what an inspirational thinking person. And

01:36:57.060 --> 01:37:04.819
he did Never Back Down 3 with me. We shot that

01:37:04.819 --> 01:37:08.000
in Thailand. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What

01:37:08.000 --> 01:37:09.439
is it like training in Thailand? That's got to

01:37:09.439 --> 01:37:14.270
be fun. Oh, man. Kind of hot. Yeah, but the motherland

01:37:14.270 --> 01:37:17.489
of Muay Thai. Yeah, yeah. Again, like with every

01:37:17.489 --> 01:37:20.810
style, it's strengths and it's weaknesses. You

01:37:20.810 --> 01:37:22.670
know, a lot of them, you know, a lot of things

01:37:22.670 --> 01:37:25.829
around, you know, they go around and not straight,

01:37:25.909 --> 01:37:29.050
right, straight. You know, of course, the quickest

01:37:29.050 --> 01:37:33.270
distance between two points is a straight line.

01:37:33.569 --> 01:37:37.170
So it's not a whole lot of, well, they could

01:37:37.170 --> 01:37:42.050
do with a lot more boxing technique. and some

01:37:42.050 --> 01:37:44.869
of those things. But, man, talk about toughness,

01:37:44.949 --> 01:37:48.029
that kind of a thing. But it's kind of tragic

01:37:48.029 --> 01:37:51.510
how they beat the shit out of themselves. By

01:37:51.510 --> 01:37:53.229
the time they're in their 30s, man, they're like.

01:37:53.649 --> 01:37:56.010
Yeah, they're busted up. Well, they start fighting

01:37:56.010 --> 01:37:58.130
when they're very, very young. But it's also

01:37:58.130 --> 01:38:01.130
led to them training so intelligently. One of

01:38:01.130 --> 01:38:03.869
the things about Thai training, they don't spar

01:38:03.869 --> 01:38:05.750
like a lot of Americans do where they beat the

01:38:05.750 --> 01:38:08.250
fuck out of each other. They play spar. Yeah.

01:38:08.640 --> 01:38:11.479
And that play sparring allows them to not get

01:38:11.479 --> 01:38:13.319
beat up by the time they get into the ring on

01:38:13.319 --> 01:38:15.319
Saturday because a lot of them are fighting every

01:38:15.319 --> 01:38:19.279
week. So they do touch sparring. And a lot of

01:38:19.279 --> 01:38:21.699
people say, oh, you can't get good touch sparring.

01:38:21.739 --> 01:38:23.659
Well, you certainly can. Oh, yeah, absolutely.

01:38:23.680 --> 01:38:25.720
Especially when you're fighting every weekend.

01:38:25.899 --> 01:38:27.739
Yeah. And that's probably the best way to do

01:38:27.739 --> 01:38:32.180
it because you're just – working on timing, pattern

01:38:32.180 --> 01:38:36.699
recognition, and just getting your reps in. Yeah,

01:38:36.739 --> 01:38:38.760
just like with jiu -jitsu, of course, when you

01:38:38.760 --> 01:38:42.159
don't muscle things, you let the technique do

01:38:42.159 --> 01:38:45.109
its thing. That's so much better. Right, right.

01:38:45.149 --> 01:38:48.829
And you maintain so much better as well. Right,

01:38:48.869 --> 01:38:50.470
and I think one of the best examples of that

01:38:50.470 --> 01:38:53.609
is like Sanchai because Sanchai is in his 40s,

01:38:53.609 --> 01:38:55.850
and he's still fucking people up. I mean, it's

01:38:55.850 --> 01:38:58.569
crazy watching that guy fight, but you look at

01:38:58.569 --> 01:39:01.430
him, a very unassuming guy. You know, he's not

01:39:01.430 --> 01:39:03.949
ripped. You know, he's an older guy, but he's

01:39:03.949 --> 01:39:08.619
just... and his smoothness and the way he moves.

01:39:08.680 --> 01:39:11.539
It's very playful. He's just fucking people up.

01:39:11.699 --> 01:39:15.140
Yeah, yeah. Man, it makes me, I miss Thailand.

01:39:15.380 --> 01:39:18.159
I actually did my, we did our wedding ceremony

01:39:18.159 --> 01:39:20.300
in Thailand. Oh, wow. Yeah, and you know who

01:39:20.300 --> 01:39:24.619
was, who officiated part of it was Tony Jaa.

01:39:24.920 --> 01:39:27.680
Oh, really? Tony Jaa did the Buddhist part of

01:39:27.680 --> 01:39:30.079
our wedding. He did the water blessing, and he

01:39:30.079 --> 01:39:36.159
also sang at the wedding. That's cool. Yes, yes.

01:39:36.539 --> 01:39:39.180
One of the greatest martial artists ever. What

01:39:39.180 --> 01:39:42.180
a great movie that was. For martial arts technique,

01:39:42.460 --> 01:39:44.880
that was one of the first times real true Muay

01:39:44.880 --> 01:39:48.239
Thai was exhibited in a film. Super high level.

01:39:48.800 --> 01:39:52.539
Tony, just, my God, he would do these incredible

01:39:52.539 --> 01:39:56.449
feats in front of you. Unbelievable. He can do

01:39:56.449 --> 01:40:01.029
a somersault, hit you in the shoulder, and just

01:40:01.029 --> 01:40:04.770
tap you like that with his foot. He had that

01:40:04.770 --> 01:40:09.729
much control. It's unbelievable. He was sick

01:40:09.729 --> 01:40:13.609
recently, but I think he's overcoming. I think

01:40:13.609 --> 01:40:18.909
it was a C -word, man. I haven't talked to him

01:40:18.909 --> 01:40:20.909
in a minute, but I just found out about it a

01:40:20.909 --> 01:40:27.100
couple weeks ago. I knew he got thinner, but

01:40:27.100 --> 01:40:30.140
I'm hoping that he's better now. Yeah, he's a

01:40:30.140 --> 01:40:32.779
legend. Yeah, he's something else. It's so fascinating

01:40:32.779 --> 01:40:35.039
to me how different parts of the world develop

01:40:35.039 --> 01:40:37.779
a different style of martial arts, and Thailand

01:40:37.779 --> 01:40:40.350
in particular. Because of the fact that there

01:40:40.350 --> 01:40:43.010
was so much gambling and there were so many fights

01:40:43.010 --> 01:40:46.829
that they developed this very heavy leg kick,

01:40:46.930 --> 01:40:49.930
clinch, elbow, knee style. Yeah. It was just

01:40:49.930 --> 01:40:51.930
very different than a lot of the other styles.

01:40:52.310 --> 01:40:55.550
You know, and for a long time was really dominating

01:40:55.550 --> 01:40:58.329
in kickboxing. But then you're starting to see

01:40:58.329 --> 01:41:00.970
other styles, like particularly a lot of Kyokushin

01:41:00.970 --> 01:41:03.770
guys now. Yeah, yeah. Specifically out of Japan.

01:41:04.149 --> 01:41:07.500
Have you ever seen this kid, Yuki Yoza? Is he

01:41:07.500 --> 01:41:10.199
Kyokushin? Yeah, Kyokushin guy out of Japan who's

01:41:10.199 --> 01:41:14.279
dominating people. He fights very different,

01:41:14.420 --> 01:41:16.579
man. He's fucking up a lot of Thai guys with

01:41:16.579 --> 01:41:19.739
calf kicks. Okay, okay. Oh, my God, dude. No,

01:41:19.760 --> 01:41:23.319
I hadn't heard of him. I just officiated a Kyokushin

01:41:23.319 --> 01:41:26.640
tournament yesterday. It was Sunday. Was that

01:41:26.640 --> 01:41:29.960
two days ago? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm

01:41:29.960 --> 01:41:32.220
still connected in the Kyokushin. I mean, been

01:41:32.220 --> 01:41:35.680
doing that since I was a kid. Well, you did the

01:41:35.680 --> 01:41:37.119
whole thing, like where you have to fight like

01:41:37.119 --> 01:41:39.180
100 guys in a day. You did all that shit, right?

01:41:39.380 --> 01:41:43.680
I've done 30, man. I haven't done 100. I'm exaggerating,

01:41:43.680 --> 01:41:45.859
but it's like a lot of people. Yeah, yeah, which

01:41:45.859 --> 01:41:49.420
is the toughest. Honestly, I love it. It was

01:41:49.420 --> 01:41:52.659
the toughest thing I ever had to really face

01:41:52.659 --> 01:41:56.439
because you come to a point where you want to

01:41:56.439 --> 01:41:59.470
give up. And you have to just, you know, kind

01:41:59.470 --> 01:42:01.569
of walk the burning sands. What is it like walking

01:42:01.569 --> 01:42:04.890
the next day? Man, I had, I mean, I remember

01:42:04.890 --> 01:42:09.130
the first time I did a 10 -man. And I had several

01:42:09.130 --> 01:42:12.270
knees on my legs, put it that way. Because they

01:42:12.270 --> 01:42:15.289
destroy your legs so bad. Yeah. Right? I did

01:42:15.289 --> 01:42:18.369
a 20 -man one other time and made the mistake

01:42:18.369 --> 01:42:23.479
of having a, I had like an energy drink. Which

01:42:23.479 --> 01:42:26.340
is stupid because now my heart is racing higher

01:42:26.340 --> 01:42:29.720
than normal. And so it made it even harder. But

01:42:29.720 --> 01:42:33.960
somewhere around, like, inevitably you get to

01:42:33.960 --> 01:42:35.840
a place where I remember the 12th guy, I'm like,

01:42:35.939 --> 01:42:38.819
what the fuck are you doing? Why are you here?

01:42:38.979 --> 01:42:41.399
You know? But you had to dig deep. And you got

01:42:41.399 --> 01:42:44.560
18 more to go. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm like, man.

01:42:44.979 --> 01:42:48.079
But honestly. It's such a hard style. Yeah. But,

01:42:48.159 --> 01:42:51.800
man, it's something about getting. Because you're

01:42:51.800 --> 01:42:55.319
going to be faced with yourself. You want to

01:42:55.319 --> 01:42:59.380
quit. And you have to just dig down and get through

01:42:59.380 --> 01:43:04.340
it. And there's nothing like it when you accomplish

01:43:04.340 --> 01:43:08.739
it. Because you know where you can go. You know

01:43:08.739 --> 01:43:13.500
that most of the time you tell yourself you're

01:43:13.500 --> 01:43:17.140
done. You're not. What a valuable lesson it is

01:43:17.140 --> 01:43:21.399
to know that about yourself. Yeah. And you can't,

01:43:21.399 --> 01:43:25.079
there's no substitute for that. And it's just

01:43:25.079 --> 01:43:28.560
something that you just benefit. I remember the

01:43:28.560 --> 01:43:32.020
last time I did this, we had to train out in

01:43:32.020 --> 01:43:37.140
Banff, Canada. Because usually these things are

01:43:37.140 --> 01:43:40.399
in Japan. And people from all over the style,

01:43:40.600 --> 01:43:42.640
they come and they train. You're like training

01:43:42.640 --> 01:43:45.119
eight hours a day. You got these little lunch

01:43:45.119 --> 01:43:50.520
breaks. And I didn't think it through. I think

01:43:50.520 --> 01:43:52.800
the last one was like about five, six years ago.

01:43:53.819 --> 01:43:56.880
I, you know, wanted to challenge myself. I wanted

01:43:56.880 --> 01:43:59.199
to do this, but I'm by myself. And most people

01:43:59.199 --> 01:44:01.180
come with family members and all that kind of

01:44:01.180 --> 01:44:02.819
stuff. So you're by yourself. You're a movie

01:44:02.819 --> 01:44:05.819
star. Yeah, and I have the target on my back.

01:44:05.899 --> 01:44:10.119
Of course. And it's like we have a training thing,

01:44:10.239 --> 01:44:12.760
and then you got a certain amount of time to

01:44:12.760 --> 01:44:15.380
go eat, but then people want to take pictures

01:44:15.380 --> 01:44:18.579
of me, and I'm the last guy to get into the lunch

01:44:18.579 --> 01:44:22.199
thing. And then I was like, oh, shit, I got 10

01:44:22.199 --> 01:44:23.720
minutes to eat and then I got to get back in

01:44:23.720 --> 01:44:25.319
the next training session. And you have a full

01:44:25.319 --> 01:44:29.399
stomach. Yeah. And then you got like, I mean,

01:44:29.439 --> 01:44:32.699
it kind of sucked, but I taught myself something.

01:44:32.760 --> 01:44:35.539
I said, you know, you could be three hours in.

01:44:35.600 --> 01:44:37.819
I tell myself, I just got here. I just got here.

01:44:38.199 --> 01:44:41.000
And I dig deeper and whatever. And then the last

01:44:41.000 --> 01:44:43.060
few days, you're just fighting down to the last

01:44:43.060 --> 01:44:46.119
person. And, you know, there's people that's

01:44:46.119 --> 01:44:48.460
like, you know, they got their. Their eye on

01:44:48.460 --> 01:44:50.199
you because, like, you know, I've got the bullseye

01:44:50.199 --> 01:44:53.920
on me. But the great thing is, dude, like I say,

01:44:53.960 --> 01:44:57.819
I learned a lot. I'm doing footwork with Frankie

01:44:57.819 --> 01:45:02.260
for years. I'm a boxing technique. I've got Benny

01:45:02.260 --> 01:45:05.399
Urquidez. Bill Wallace was my instructor. I've

01:45:05.399 --> 01:45:11.380
got so many things in my arsenal. And to test

01:45:11.380 --> 01:45:16.359
myself, it's such a great benefit to, you know.

01:45:16.890 --> 01:45:19.029
And it was weird because I was thinking, like,

01:45:19.090 --> 01:45:21.329
am I insane? Because I had a movie that I was

01:45:21.329 --> 01:45:24.930
going to be starting like a week later. I could

01:45:24.930 --> 01:45:26.729
have just been messed up. I could have had a

01:45:26.729 --> 01:45:29.029
broken leg or whatever. A lot of times you leave

01:45:29.029 --> 01:45:31.829
with a souvenir, they call it. Like, you know,

01:45:31.829 --> 01:45:33.890
when you trade in Japan, a lot of the Japanese

01:45:33.890 --> 01:45:36.069
want to give you a souvenir. That means a broken

01:45:36.069 --> 01:45:40.090
bone. But I had to try to, you know, overcome

01:45:40.090 --> 01:45:45.069
that. So in life, especially in this kind of

01:45:45.069 --> 01:45:50.189
coddled, life I'm living, I don't get a chance

01:45:50.189 --> 01:45:53.449
to test myself that much, right? Right. And,

01:45:53.489 --> 01:45:57.569
you know, yeah, I had to, you know, listen to

01:45:57.569 --> 01:46:01.090
my own complaints and shut the fuck up and get

01:46:01.090 --> 01:46:04.149
through it. Yeah, oh, it's not fair because everybody's

01:46:04.149 --> 01:46:06.289
taking pictures and you're doing this and I'm

01:46:06.289 --> 01:46:10.689
by myself. No, no, that's not, the point is get

01:46:10.689 --> 01:46:13.630
through it, you know? Yeah. And I'm so glad to

01:46:13.630 --> 01:46:15.869
do that and I always like to, that's why I like

01:46:15.869 --> 01:46:18.590
to train with, champions and and stuff because

01:46:18.590 --> 01:46:22.289
you know that's you you want you want to get

01:46:22.289 --> 01:46:26.210
through things it should be you should be tested

01:46:26.210 --> 01:46:30.350
i mean as if i had a religion a large part of

01:46:30.350 --> 01:46:33.229
it if i was the head of my own religious cult

01:46:33.229 --> 01:46:36.970
would be that men go through something there's

01:46:36.970 --> 01:46:39.710
a rites of passage yes you got to know how to

01:46:39.710 --> 01:46:41.609
protect yourself and your family and your loved

01:46:41.609 --> 01:46:45.270
ones that to me is is paramount. You also have

01:46:45.270 --> 01:46:47.949
to know what's inside of you. That's exactly

01:46:47.949 --> 01:46:49.710
right. And the only way to find out is to test

01:46:49.710 --> 01:46:51.770
it. Exactly. Because otherwise you get these

01:46:51.770 --> 01:46:54.029
dudes that have their chest pumped out and they're

01:46:54.029 --> 01:46:56.430
talking loud. Why are they doing that? Because

01:46:56.430 --> 01:46:58.909
they want to scare people off. Right. Because

01:46:58.909 --> 01:47:01.050
they don't know what they're capable of. They're

01:47:01.050 --> 01:47:03.010
terrified. Yeah, and you can't hide from yourself.

01:47:03.390 --> 01:47:05.569
Right. And that's the thing. I'm not going to

01:47:05.569 --> 01:47:11.470
bullshit myself. I want to know. And it's great.

01:47:12.109 --> 01:47:18.550
And there's no substitute for going through that.

01:47:18.770 --> 01:47:21.689
And that's the thing why I love fighters so much.

01:47:22.229 --> 01:47:27.470
You know, you're basically naked to the world.

01:47:28.029 --> 01:47:31.149
You have to dig down. You have to overcome things.

01:47:31.289 --> 01:47:33.210
That's why I love them so much because they're

01:47:33.210 --> 01:47:37.729
our gladiators. We live vicariously through them.

01:47:37.850 --> 01:47:43.250
And that's why I'm a little dogged about. actors

01:47:43.250 --> 01:47:46.289
receiving those accolades when they haven't done

01:47:46.289 --> 01:47:49.569
it. Myself included. I don't care if somebody

01:47:49.569 --> 01:47:51.770
says, oh, he's not a fighter. He's an actor.

01:47:52.029 --> 01:47:54.949
Fine. You should think that way. But personally,

01:47:55.149 --> 01:47:58.529
it's something deeper for myself. One person

01:47:58.529 --> 01:48:00.930
I think I identify with that is you. Because

01:48:00.930 --> 01:48:04.109
I've seen you. I've seen you in the gyms back

01:48:04.109 --> 01:48:08.289
when it wasn't popular. And we're doing it for

01:48:08.289 --> 01:48:11.430
reasons that are not. It had nothing to do with

01:48:11.430 --> 01:48:14.909
glory or ego or anything like that. It's just

01:48:14.909 --> 01:48:17.930
for self -improvement. Yeah. And that's what

01:48:17.930 --> 01:48:19.930
it's about, man, because it's about overcoming

01:48:19.930 --> 01:48:21.770
obstacles. And your biggest obstacle in the world

01:48:21.770 --> 01:48:24.949
is yourself. Yeah. Yeah. My instructor, when

01:48:24.949 --> 01:48:27.310
I was very young, told me that martial arts were

01:48:27.310 --> 01:48:29.409
a vehicle for developing your human potential.

01:48:29.909 --> 01:48:32.710
Exactly. Exactly. But it's so hard. Yeah. And

01:48:32.710 --> 01:48:34.930
people need something hard. Yeah. And what about

01:48:34.930 --> 01:48:40.020
Khabib's? What did Khabib say? Like, what he

01:48:40.020 --> 01:48:43.220
says about discipline? Oh, that rant? Man, I

01:48:43.220 --> 01:48:45.640
had to recall. Oh, that. I don't know if that

01:48:45.640 --> 01:48:48.100
rant is real. Somebody told me that rant is AI.

01:48:48.319 --> 01:48:52.060
What? Yeah. Is it AI? Damn it. What? Well, who

01:48:52.060 --> 01:48:55.479
cares? It's in Khabib's voice, and I bet. Khabib

01:48:55.479 --> 01:48:57.619
would agree with every word it said. Yes, yes.

01:48:57.819 --> 01:49:00.279
Find that rant because let's pretend that it's

01:49:00.279 --> 01:49:04.720
not AI. Or it may be one of AI's greatest contributions

01:49:04.720 --> 01:49:06.840
to martial arts. Right, absolutely. Because becoming

01:49:06.840 --> 01:49:09.359
addicted to discipline. Yeah, every man addicted

01:49:09.359 --> 01:49:13.380
to something. Yeah. Oh, it's such a great rant.

01:49:13.579 --> 01:49:16.659
Here it is. Give me this. Give me this. It's

01:49:16.659 --> 01:49:18.619
such a fucking great rant. Start from the beginning,

01:49:18.760 --> 01:49:21.739
too. Every man addicted to something. Some smoke,

01:49:21.840 --> 01:49:23.819
some drink, some chase girls, some waste time.

01:49:24.300 --> 01:49:27.479
But real man, he addicted to discipline. To early

01:49:27.479 --> 01:49:31.420
wakes, to prayer, to training, to silence. Discipline

01:49:31.420 --> 01:49:34.319
no need motivation. Discipline move without feeling.

01:49:34.819 --> 01:49:37.859
Discipline say, I go anyway. Even when tired,

01:49:38.039 --> 01:49:40.899
even when lonely. Discipline is best addiction.

01:49:41.359 --> 01:49:44.840
You want strong life? Discipline build it. You

01:49:44.840 --> 01:49:48.319
want peace? Discipline protect it. You want respect?

01:49:48.840 --> 01:49:52.189
Discipline earn it. No shortcut, only work. Be

01:49:52.189 --> 01:49:55.289
man with control, not man with excuse. No cry,

01:49:55.449 --> 01:49:58.710
no blame. You want better life? Start with better

01:49:58.710 --> 01:50:01.750
habits. Discipline every day until discipline

01:50:01.750 --> 01:50:05.609
become you. Fucking yeah. Yeah, I don't give

01:50:05.609 --> 01:50:08.609
a damn if there's AI or whatever. Well, kudos

01:50:08.609 --> 01:50:10.729
to the AI person that put that together. Yeah.

01:50:11.880 --> 01:50:14.460
That's how he lives. Yeah. So even if it's AI,

01:50:14.720 --> 01:50:18.199
he would go, this is accurate. Yes. Well, I'll

01:50:18.199 --> 01:50:20.340
tell you what, man. That part of the world, Dagestan,

01:50:20.340 --> 01:50:22.159
you want to talk about a hard part of the world

01:50:22.159 --> 01:50:24.680
that is developing some of the baddest motherfuckers?

01:50:24.939 --> 01:50:27.800
Even in Muay Thai, there's this cat coming out

01:50:27.800 --> 01:50:31.159
of Muay Thai out of Dagestan right now, Azadullah

01:50:31.159 --> 01:50:35.600
Imam Ghazaliyev, who's like 22 years old, and

01:50:35.600 --> 01:50:39.819
he is fucking everybody up. A Dagestani Muay

01:50:39.819 --> 01:50:42.880
Thai fighter. Really? his own style he's this

01:50:42.880 --> 01:50:46.359
tall lanky dude who's one of the most terrifying

01:50:46.359 --> 01:50:48.439
strikers alive right now a lot of people think

01:50:48.439 --> 01:50:51.859
he's the best striker alive oh man he's 22 22

01:50:51.859 --> 01:50:55.060
or 23 years old and he's just fucking everybody

01:50:55.060 --> 01:50:58.840
up he fights for one fc give me a highlight reel

01:50:58.840 --> 01:51:08.270
of this cat That's it. Best technical striker

01:51:08.270 --> 01:51:10.090
in the world. That's it. Click on that. Just

01:51:10.090 --> 01:51:12.710
give me some of this. Just start it from the

01:51:12.710 --> 01:51:15.949
beginning. This dude, that tall dude with the

01:51:15.949 --> 01:51:19.689
beard, Azadullah Imam Ghazaliyev. Watch this

01:51:19.689 --> 01:51:23.310
motherfucker. What a style he has. I mean, it's

01:51:23.310 --> 01:51:26.909
just this long, tall, lanky dude, perfect timing

01:51:26.909 --> 01:51:30.250
and measurement, and he just starts piecing dudes

01:51:30.250 --> 01:51:34.300
up. I think this is like his full fight. Yeah,

01:51:34.359 --> 01:51:36.920
well, I don't think so. If you scoot ahead, I

01:51:36.920 --> 01:51:38.699
think he fucks this guy up pretty quick. I've

01:51:38.699 --> 01:51:42.119
seen this fight. This guy, he catches with one

01:51:42.119 --> 01:51:46.840
shot, but some dude's not so lucky. Oh, man.

01:51:47.000 --> 01:51:48.960
Yeah, that was one shot, but it keeps going,

01:51:49.100 --> 01:51:53.619
and then give me the next fight. He just starts

01:51:53.619 --> 01:51:56.579
lighting guys on fire, including Thais, and they

01:51:56.579 --> 01:51:59.239
don't know what the fuck is going on because

01:51:59.239 --> 01:52:01.420
he fights different than them. I mean, he's a

01:52:01.420 --> 01:52:04.010
Muay Thai fighter. He's got that straight. You

01:52:04.010 --> 01:52:06.670
know, he's exploiting the fact that they got

01:52:06.670 --> 01:52:09.609
so much round technique. Exactly. A lot of front

01:52:09.609 --> 01:52:11.829
kicks up the middle and especially to the face.

01:52:12.050 --> 01:52:15.729
But also his spinning attacks. He's got wicked

01:52:15.729 --> 01:52:19.149
spinning attacks, man. And also comes off angle

01:52:19.149 --> 01:52:22.289
a lot. His head's never on the center line. Super

01:52:22.289 --> 01:52:25.529
fucking technical. But just lighting dudes on

01:52:25.529 --> 01:52:33.369
fire. And just an attack. always attacking and

01:52:33.369 --> 01:52:36.189
has the benefit of that range that long range

01:52:36.189 --> 01:52:42.789
yeah i mean nice dude is incredible incredible

01:52:42.789 --> 01:52:48.069
and again 22 years old like look at that so he's

01:52:48.069 --> 01:52:51.510
combining like taekwondo techniques karate techniques

01:52:51.510 --> 01:52:57.869
and precision muay thai i mean the problem with

01:52:57.869 --> 01:53:01.840
this this this not this style, but this form,

01:53:02.000 --> 01:53:03.920
is that a lot of people aren't seeing it. One

01:53:03.920 --> 01:53:06.300
FC is doing a really good job of highlighting

01:53:06.300 --> 01:53:09.100
a lot of elite Muay Thai fighters. They have

01:53:09.100 --> 01:53:11.880
Tawan Chai over there and Siddha Chai and all

01:53:11.880 --> 01:53:15.199
these high -level guys. But in America, this,

01:53:15.319 --> 01:53:18.319
for whatever reason, has not caught on. And the

01:53:18.319 --> 01:53:19.939
only way this guy is going to get the kind of

01:53:19.939 --> 01:53:21.779
attention that I think he deserves is if he gets

01:53:21.779 --> 01:53:26.060
into MMA. Boom! Axe kick, spinning back fist,

01:53:26.239 --> 01:53:30.829
boom! His straight rights are no joke. He's a

01:53:30.829 --> 01:53:33.949
laser beam. He's so focused. He's so good, man.

01:53:34.069 --> 01:53:38.550
So good. Yeah. So the Dagestanis are now entering

01:53:38.550 --> 01:53:41.659
into Muay Thai, which is a... terrible sight

01:53:41.659 --> 01:53:45.140
for all these Muay Thai guys. Those are hard

01:53:45.140 --> 01:53:49.600
people. Hard people who start at a very young

01:53:49.600 --> 01:53:53.079
age. I mean, a very young age. And also, Dagestanis

01:53:53.079 --> 01:53:56.619
now, because of Khabib and Islam, they all know

01:53:56.619 --> 01:53:59.739
that this is the pathway to greatness. And so

01:53:59.739 --> 01:54:02.489
there's heroes. And there could be Ankalayev.

01:54:02.550 --> 01:54:04.289
There's all these guys that have been world champions

01:54:04.289 --> 01:54:06.649
out of Dagestan now. So it's like you're seeing

01:54:06.649 --> 01:54:08.670
all these guys come out of there, and some of

01:54:08.670 --> 01:54:10.970
these young guys that are coming up are so good.

01:54:11.569 --> 01:54:13.989
They're so good. But this is fascinating to me

01:54:13.989 --> 01:54:16.789
that you take a guy who's adapted this Thai style

01:54:16.789 --> 01:54:19.810
but then morphed it into something that's different.

01:54:20.069 --> 01:54:22.270
And again, like you were saying, a lot of straight

01:54:22.270 --> 01:54:24.750
techniques, especially when you're a tall guy

01:54:24.750 --> 01:54:26.289
like that for the weight class, because I think

01:54:26.289 --> 01:54:29.390
he fights at 145. And when you're that tall at

01:54:29.390 --> 01:54:31.920
145, You've got those straight shots down the

01:54:31.920 --> 01:54:34.180
middle. His right is just like you can't really

01:54:34.180 --> 01:54:37.140
see it. Laser beam. Right directly at him. But

01:54:37.140 --> 01:54:39.140
it's also the hooks, too. His hooks are coming

01:54:39.140 --> 01:54:41.560
around the guard. Right, right. Everything is

01:54:41.560 --> 01:54:45.300
precise, and his accuracy is spectacular. Yeah.

01:54:45.539 --> 01:54:50.119
Yeah. I'm a student, obviously. I watch every.

01:54:50.829 --> 01:54:53.710
fight i can't i watch i watch kickboxing i watch

01:54:53.710 --> 01:54:56.609
muay thai i watch jiu -jitsu matches i watch

01:54:56.609 --> 01:54:59.550
it all but i i'm always fascinated by these cats

01:54:59.550 --> 01:55:03.029
that stand out and this guy just stands out yeah

01:55:03.529 --> 01:55:05.729
Yeah, it's great when somebody knows how to use

01:55:05.729 --> 01:55:09.010
their length like that. Yeah, yeah. Well, Yukioza,

01:55:09.069 --> 01:55:10.970
the Kyokushin guy that I was telling you, totally

01:55:10.970 --> 01:55:13.869
different. This guy is doing a shelling up and

01:55:13.869 --> 01:55:16.189
getting in tight on guys and kicking the fuck

01:55:16.189 --> 01:55:18.890
out of their inner thigh, outer calf, lower.

01:55:19.130 --> 01:55:22.810
He's chopping at their legs. Even Thai guys don't

01:55:22.810 --> 01:55:25.590
know what to do because they're not used to guys

01:55:25.590 --> 01:55:28.029
kicking their calves like this guy. Right, yeah.

01:55:28.109 --> 01:55:30.630
So he's inside going shin to shin. And you know

01:55:30.630 --> 01:55:32.550
as well as anybody, Kyokushin guys have some

01:55:32.550 --> 01:55:34.779
of the most. conditioned shins in the world they're

01:55:34.779 --> 01:55:37.920
always battering shin to shin and this dude is

01:55:37.920 --> 01:55:39.920
just getting in and you see in the second round

01:55:39.920 --> 01:55:41.880
a lot of these Thai guys like oh fuck I can't

01:55:41.880 --> 01:55:44.960
walk I can't move right my calves don't work

01:55:44.960 --> 01:55:48.560
anymore so the calf kick which is really kind

01:55:48.560 --> 01:55:51.640
of revolutionized MMA it's changed MMA because

01:55:52.260 --> 01:55:54.880
One, two hard calf kicks, you're compromised.

01:55:54.939 --> 01:55:56.979
You're not moving right anymore. And you're not

01:55:56.979 --> 01:55:58.420
pivoting off that foot when you're punching.

01:55:58.520 --> 01:56:01.859
So your punching power is diminished. This Yuki

01:56:01.859 --> 01:56:04.840
Yoza guy is like putting it on Thai guys with

01:56:04.840 --> 01:56:06.420
it. That's something. I mean, especially for

01:56:06.420 --> 01:56:10.460
a Kyokushin guy to, I mean, the knock with Kyokushin,

01:56:10.479 --> 01:56:12.800
I've been doing it ever since I was a kid, is

01:56:12.800 --> 01:56:17.039
just that not developing facial. Exactly. Facial,

01:56:17.039 --> 01:56:21.649
you know. Well, this guy has incorporated Russian

01:56:21.649 --> 01:56:25.750
-style boxing. He's got Russian -style boxing

01:56:25.750 --> 01:56:28.029
with Kyokushin karate techniques. Well, yeah,

01:56:28.069 --> 01:56:31.869
with that Russian -style boxing, they really

01:56:31.869 --> 01:56:34.890
kind of mastered the non -telegraph kind of thing.

01:56:34.890 --> 01:56:36.970
Yeah. Because it looks like they're not going

01:56:36.970 --> 01:56:40.689
fast. Yukio's a highlight reel. There's a bunch

01:56:40.689 --> 01:56:43.390
of fights with him and Thai guys. And, you know,

01:56:43.430 --> 01:56:45.750
the first round, Thai guys are doing their thing.

01:56:45.869 --> 01:56:47.890
And it looks, you know, like a normal fight.

01:56:47.989 --> 01:56:50.729
But Yuki Yozu just starts chopping at those calves.

01:56:50.770 --> 01:56:54.890
Inside. And he's like multiple kicks to the calf

01:56:54.890 --> 01:56:57.689
from in tight and close. Yeah, that's punishing.

01:56:58.220 --> 01:57:00.359
And you see guys, like, playing at, like, go

01:57:00.359 --> 01:57:01.819
ahead, kick me, kick me. And then after a while,

01:57:01.819 --> 01:57:03.819
they're like, fuck, don't kick me anymore. They're

01:57:03.819 --> 01:57:06.460
trying to get macho with him, but then it's not

01:57:06.460 --> 01:57:09.539
working. But, yeah, like, what would it take

01:57:09.539 --> 01:57:13.159
to develop, like, tabs? This is you, Piozza.

01:57:14.000 --> 01:57:18.840
Just like your thighs. You see how he's chopping

01:57:18.840 --> 01:57:22.000
when he's getting tight. Look at this. Always.

01:57:22.340 --> 01:57:26.760
Look at how much he's utilizing all the karate

01:57:26.760 --> 01:57:30.680
techniques, but also in tight just destroys guys'

01:57:30.800 --> 01:57:33.619
legs. But also spinning back kicks, all that

01:57:33.619 --> 01:57:35.279
other shit. But look at his boxing is excellent

01:57:35.279 --> 01:57:39.720
too. Ooh. A lot of Muay Thai stuff, dumping people.

01:57:39.840 --> 01:57:42.460
But look at that. He's constantly kicking the

01:57:42.460 --> 01:57:44.260
inside of the leg. When they're committing to

01:57:44.260 --> 01:57:47.859
kicks, he's taking their legs out. This dude,

01:57:47.979 --> 01:57:50.539
one of my favorite guys to watch right now. Like,

01:57:50.539 --> 01:57:52.659
look, that's a Thai guy, man. He's just destroying

01:57:52.659 --> 01:57:56.760
their legs, man. Man. An excellent movement.

01:57:57.079 --> 01:58:00.600
Yeah. And he comes out of a very high -level

01:58:00.600 --> 01:58:03.279
gym in Japan that's produced a lot of really

01:58:03.279 --> 01:58:07.229
Masasaki Nori. Another guy who's like that is

01:58:07.229 --> 01:58:09.670
a very similar guy who beat Taiwan Chi recently

01:58:09.670 --> 01:58:13.300
like these guys are just destroying people's

01:58:13.300 --> 01:58:16.720
legs. So they're utilizing a lot of the question

01:58:16.720 --> 01:58:19.399
mark kicks, a lot of the stuff that evolved in

01:58:19.399 --> 01:58:22.739
Kyokushin, but putting it into kickboxing, also

01:58:22.739 --> 01:58:26.239
with the toughness that is in, you know, a lot

01:58:26.239 --> 01:58:29.300
of the Kyokushin fighters. Yeah, I see them slip

01:58:29.300 --> 01:58:32.739
into like a Superman. Yeah. Everybody's going

01:58:32.739 --> 01:58:35.619
to be susceptible for that. If you got a kick,

01:58:35.739 --> 01:58:38.270
a leg kick, that's... that's that legitimate,

01:58:38.489 --> 01:58:40.789
they're going to bite on that. It's going to

01:58:40.789 --> 01:58:42.390
be open for them. And then he uses a Superman

01:58:42.390 --> 01:58:45.810
punch. Yeah. And another very young guy. So there's

01:58:45.810 --> 01:58:48.590
these people that are exploiting these holes

01:58:48.590 --> 01:58:51.149
and these styles because some of these Thai guys

01:58:51.149 --> 01:58:54.329
are so hard to beat. By the time they're competing

01:58:54.329 --> 01:58:56.850
and they're 25 years old, they might have 150

01:58:56.850 --> 01:59:00.850
fights. So much experience. But this cat's figuring

01:59:00.850 --> 01:59:03.710
them out, man. It's really interesting to watch.

01:59:03.909 --> 01:59:07.460
Yeah. I would love to see. I wish there was,

01:59:07.500 --> 01:59:09.399
like, some kind of governing body that would

01:59:09.399 --> 01:59:12.800
get all the, like, some, like, superstars or

01:59:12.800 --> 01:59:15.279
whatever. Get this guy versus this guy from.

01:59:15.880 --> 01:59:18.460
Well, one is doing that a lot. But, you know,

01:59:18.520 --> 01:59:21.220
one, unfortunately, is not that popular in America.

01:59:21.500 --> 01:59:23.699
What I love about one is they'll have grappling

01:59:23.699 --> 01:59:26.319
competitions. They'll have kickboxing. They'll

01:59:26.319 --> 01:59:28.300
have Muay Thai. And then they'll have MMA. They'll

01:59:28.300 --> 01:59:30.699
have them all combined on one card. One is the

01:59:30.699 --> 01:59:33.699
one that Michael Giavello is on, right? Well,

01:59:33.739 --> 01:59:36.739
he was on that. Michael Chavelle's not with one

01:59:36.739 --> 01:59:39.119
anymore. Michael Chavelle's one of the best commentators.

01:59:39.119 --> 01:59:41.319
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's excellent. Great guy,

01:59:41.380 --> 01:59:45.619
too. I'll probably be seeing him in another three

01:59:45.619 --> 01:59:47.479
weeks. You going to Australia? Yeah, going to

01:59:47.479 --> 01:59:51.760
Australia. Nice. My wife and I, we did a tour.

01:59:52.199 --> 01:59:56.340
I do seminars over there. you know, meet and

01:59:56.340 --> 01:59:58.060
greets and stuff like that. We haven't done that

01:59:58.060 --> 02:00:00.920
in a while, but yeah, we've got some really good,

02:00:00.939 --> 02:00:03.300
some good fighters out there. Oh yeah. John Wayne

02:00:03.300 --> 02:00:05.439
Parr. Yeah. You know, some great fighters have

02:00:05.439 --> 02:00:07.239
come out of Australia. Yeah. So yeah, we're going

02:00:07.239 --> 02:00:08.880
to have some fun out there. That's awesome. Yeah.

02:00:09.000 --> 02:00:12.920
They're in New Zealand. Oh, yeah, another hotbed.

02:00:13.079 --> 02:00:14.960
Oh, yeah. Another hotbed for fighters. Well,

02:00:14.979 --> 02:00:16.739
it's just warrior cultures. Yeah, absolutely,

02:00:17.100 --> 02:00:20.300
yeah. Warrior history. I don't think I've never

02:00:20.300 --> 02:00:22.640
met an Australian that I didn't like. I know.

02:00:22.720 --> 02:00:24.399
They're the nicest fucking people. They're so

02:00:24.399 --> 02:00:25.920
fucking cool, yeah. Yeah, they're the coolest

02:00:25.920 --> 02:00:29.279
people. They're friendly, easygoing. Yeah, you

02:00:29.279 --> 02:00:32.109
have rites of passage still. You know, places

02:00:32.109 --> 02:00:37.029
like that. I mean, that's one thing that is sad

02:00:37.029 --> 02:00:39.149
about the United States. It's like we're not

02:00:39.149 --> 02:00:41.829
making men anymore. Not a lot of them. No, no.

02:00:42.029 --> 02:00:44.489
When they are, they stand out. Yeah, you know,

02:00:44.550 --> 02:00:46.189
that's why it's like a lot of times in these

02:00:46.189 --> 02:00:49.210
movies, if you have an alpha male, a lot of times

02:00:49.210 --> 02:00:52.890
that American alpha male is being played by an

02:00:52.890 --> 02:00:55.670
Australian or somebody from the— Chris Hemsworth.

02:00:55.829 --> 02:00:59.970
Yeah, it's like it's very rarely an American.

02:01:01.310 --> 02:01:03.550
It's like such a trip, man. Well, masculinity

02:01:03.550 --> 02:01:06.810
is demonized here for some strange reason over

02:01:06.810 --> 02:01:09.970
the last couple of decades. Bro, I saw the beginning

02:01:09.970 --> 02:01:11.449
of a lot of it because, you know, like I said,

02:01:11.510 --> 02:01:14.130
I was a school teacher. And I was right on the

02:01:14.130 --> 02:01:17.329
forefront seeing everybody gets a trophy. You

02:01:17.329 --> 02:01:21.050
know, these kids, you know, it's about their

02:01:21.050 --> 02:01:23.090
self -esteem and you got to protect them. I'm

02:01:23.090 --> 02:01:25.789
like, come on. And, you know, taking away competition.

02:01:26.210 --> 02:01:29.989
Yeah. I saw the beginning of that shit. And it's

02:01:29.989 --> 02:01:33.229
just so, so bad. These kids don't know how to

02:01:33.229 --> 02:01:36.090
deal with loss or anything, and then they end

02:01:36.090 --> 02:01:39.750
up shooting the classroom. You know? Dealing

02:01:39.750 --> 02:01:41.649
with loss is one of the most important lessons

02:01:41.649 --> 02:01:43.170
you could ever learn. If you want to get better,

02:01:43.229 --> 02:01:47.539
lose. Yeah. Losing is the best medicine because

02:01:47.539 --> 02:01:50.239
you lose. I don't ever want to feel that again.

02:01:50.420 --> 02:01:51.880
And then you start thinking about all the things

02:01:51.880 --> 02:01:54.060
that you cut corners on, all the things that

02:01:54.060 --> 02:01:56.359
you didn't do. What can I do differently to make

02:01:56.359 --> 02:01:58.600
sure that never happens again, that I never feel

02:01:58.600 --> 02:02:01.079
that feeling? Or you quit. Those are the two

02:02:01.079 --> 02:02:03.399
options. Either you get way better or you quit.

02:02:03.579 --> 02:02:06.680
But winning sometimes you don't learn. You go,

02:02:06.859 --> 02:02:08.479
well, I'm doing the right thing. I'm winning.

02:02:08.619 --> 02:02:10.159
I'm getting better. I'm developing confidence.

02:02:10.279 --> 02:02:12.840
That's good. But, man, sometimes a loss is the

02:02:12.840 --> 02:02:15.220
best medicine. Yeah. I mean, I realized something

02:02:15.220 --> 02:02:20.500
when I was, you know, I was born with some gifts,

02:02:20.619 --> 02:02:25.920
okay? One thing that got me into college is decathlon.

02:02:26.880 --> 02:02:31.960
As a fluke, I jumped into a race against one

02:02:31.960 --> 02:02:35.000
of the fastest guys on the track team and beat

02:02:35.000 --> 02:02:38.000
him, right? And that was just a fluke. And the

02:02:38.000 --> 02:02:40.369
coach saw that. The track coach saw that and

02:02:40.369 --> 02:02:42.529
was like, oh, my God, you're fucking running

02:02:42.529 --> 02:02:45.289
for the school. And I was like, oh, OK. I was

02:02:45.289 --> 02:02:49.289
just like, I didn't have anybody, any kind of

02:02:49.289 --> 02:02:52.430
adult that took a liking to me like that. And

02:02:52.430 --> 02:02:54.909
next thing you know, I'm on the track team. And

02:02:54.909 --> 02:02:59.529
I started, I mean, I was really good. And then

02:02:59.529 --> 02:03:01.789
I wound up going to college because of that.

02:03:02.210 --> 02:03:05.689
And incidentally, that's the stuff that really

02:03:05.689 --> 02:03:12.829
kind of taught me. to kind of evolve my martial

02:03:12.829 --> 02:03:18.789
arts because nowhere is there a benefit of cutting

02:03:18.789 --> 02:03:23.430
off fractions of seconds in movement like track.

02:03:23.810 --> 02:03:27.829
Like when I'm doing the shot put. Well, a lot

02:03:27.829 --> 02:03:29.689
of times I was competing against people that

02:03:29.689 --> 02:03:32.789
were ginormous and all they had to do was stick

02:03:32.789 --> 02:03:35.170
their arm out and their arc was going to be better

02:03:35.170 --> 02:03:38.079
than mine. Well, I had to generate enough power

02:03:38.079 --> 02:03:43.699
to go at a 45 -degree angle and inertia and all

02:03:43.699 --> 02:03:48.539
that to get past them. And with running, of course,

02:03:48.539 --> 02:03:52.819
if you shoot the gun off, all your motion has

02:03:52.819 --> 02:03:55.319
to go forward. If you go backward, you're going

02:03:55.319 --> 02:03:58.439
to be a step behind everybody. So as far as efficiency

02:03:58.439 --> 02:04:02.479
of motion, all the things I had to do with track,

02:04:02.560 --> 02:04:05.689
I started applying in fighting. And that's what

02:04:05.689 --> 02:04:08.630
kind of gave me cheat codes into things to where

02:04:08.630 --> 02:04:13.770
being super efficient really helped. Right. And

02:04:13.770 --> 02:04:18.109
so one thing would kind of help the other. But

02:04:18.109 --> 02:04:23.270
like, yeah, a lot of my whole track thing was

02:04:23.270 --> 02:04:29.770
a great benefit. But I did learn that I was kind

02:04:29.770 --> 02:04:33.489
of in a way like the Bo Jackson's or the Herschel

02:04:33.489 --> 02:04:37.939
Walker's. I was gifted. And so when I would fight,

02:04:38.140 --> 02:04:44.199
I was a big guy that was fast, and that was kind

02:04:44.199 --> 02:04:49.939
of rare. So fighting was easy to me. But I learned

02:04:49.939 --> 02:04:56.260
that when I was the celebrated fighter, that

02:04:56.260 --> 02:04:58.939
was less of a good martial artist because then

02:04:58.939 --> 02:05:01.880
I kind of would kind of flake off other things.

02:05:02.319 --> 02:05:05.250
Like I wasn't. I didn't try as hard as other

02:05:05.250 --> 02:05:07.210
people. And that's another thing I don't know

02:05:07.210 --> 02:05:10.130
if Khabib really said, but it was a thing that

02:05:10.130 --> 02:05:13.590
he said about those gifted people. A lot of people

02:05:13.590 --> 02:05:17.670
who are gifted were not the best fighters. Yeah,

02:05:17.710 --> 02:05:20.750
that is a quote from him. Exactly. And I took

02:05:20.750 --> 02:05:23.609
that, you know, that same thing because I realized,

02:05:23.890 --> 02:05:29.149
dude, you're doing it wrong. I mean, my philosophy

02:05:29.149 --> 02:05:33.310
was like, I feel I adapted the philosophy of,

02:05:33.689 --> 02:05:39.710
Okay, say this kid Sean is 140 pounds and there's

02:05:39.710 --> 02:05:42.630
me. And it takes me 1 ,000 kicks to become fatigued.

02:05:42.630 --> 02:05:44.989
And it takes him 100 kicks to become fatigued.

02:05:45.050 --> 02:05:50.750
And he pushes to 120. And I push to 1 ,001. Who's

02:05:50.750 --> 02:05:54.970
the better martial artist? He is. Because he's

02:05:54.970 --> 02:05:59.029
pushed into his comfort zone. He's pushing himself

02:05:59.029 --> 02:06:03.350
further. What if he one day... get to 1 ,000.

02:06:04.149 --> 02:06:07.270
For him to go from 100 to 1 ,000, that's going

02:06:07.270 --> 02:06:11.689
to be a quality 900 that I don't have. Me being

02:06:11.689 --> 02:06:16.229
the gifted one, I'm looking at it using the comparative

02:06:16.229 --> 02:06:19.850
method, saying, well, you know, at the end of

02:06:19.850 --> 02:06:22.449
the year, I used to kick a basketball rim. I

02:06:22.449 --> 02:06:25.869
had that ability. But when I started thinking

02:06:25.869 --> 02:06:29.270
about, well, what I compare myself to other people,

02:06:29.430 --> 02:06:33.649
that was the wrong thing. said, no, I'm going

02:06:33.649 --> 02:06:37.649
to be like Sean. I want to train to my ability,

02:06:37.890 --> 02:06:43.029
not in comparison to someone else. And that really

02:06:43.029 --> 02:06:47.510
taught me something as far as like, again, why

02:06:47.510 --> 02:06:50.210
I put myself through these things and the benefit

02:06:50.210 --> 02:06:55.350
of it by really like what the martial arts really

02:06:55.350 --> 02:06:59.430
teaches is, you know, and the fact that, yeah,

02:06:59.529 --> 02:07:04.640
I had these gifts. But if I use those gifts as

02:07:04.640 --> 02:07:07.939
a crutch, I'm limiting what I can be. Right.

02:07:08.000 --> 02:07:10.260
You're limiting your potential. Exactly. And

02:07:10.260 --> 02:07:13.619
oftentimes it's too easy for the gifted guys.

02:07:13.920 --> 02:07:17.260
And so they kind of slack off. Right. Yeah. And

02:07:17.260 --> 02:07:20.600
I realized that's what I was doing. They also

02:07:20.600 --> 02:07:23.989
are not as comfortable with struggle. Absolutely.

02:07:24.170 --> 02:07:26.029
And being comfortable with struggle is a very

02:07:26.029 --> 02:07:29.010
important part of growth. Yeah, yeah. It's a

02:07:29.010 --> 02:07:34.550
mixed message because we start to admire the

02:07:34.550 --> 02:07:42.329
freak sometimes. As men, we celebrate the pugilist

02:07:42.329 --> 02:07:46.590
a lot. And that's kind of a thing that came full

02:07:46.590 --> 02:07:49.270
circle to where, okay, yeah, I'm able to do these

02:07:49.270 --> 02:07:53.970
things, but is that really me? The limit of what

02:07:53.970 --> 02:07:59.270
I can be by having someone else go, oh, yeah,

02:07:59.350 --> 02:08:04.010
you can do this or that. That's kind of a that's

02:08:04.010 --> 02:08:07.630
not really the the the crux of it. Right. You

02:08:07.630 --> 02:08:09.890
know what I mean? And it's in and it's really

02:08:09.890 --> 02:08:12.050
about like, yeah, there's going to be people

02:08:12.050 --> 02:08:14.510
that's going to praise what you can do physically.

02:08:15.670 --> 02:08:19.069
But is that but I realize there was a point where

02:08:19.069 --> 02:08:23.939
that was kind of retarding. where I could be

02:08:23.939 --> 02:08:27.460
mentally and what I can really become. You also

02:08:27.460 --> 02:08:30.020
have a responsibility to those gifts, right?

02:08:30.020 --> 02:08:33.619
Because if you are gifted athletically, you have

02:08:33.619 --> 02:08:36.060
a responsibility of achieving the full potential

02:08:36.060 --> 02:08:38.880
because you've been given this thing by genetics,

02:08:39.039 --> 02:08:42.420
by life, by God, this thing where you are faster,

02:08:42.539 --> 02:08:44.579
you move quicker, you have more explosive power.

02:08:45.340 --> 02:08:48.899
But are you going to harness that gift and allow

02:08:48.899 --> 02:08:51.359
it to reach its full potential? When you do that,

02:08:51.399 --> 02:08:53.619
then you get a Mike Tyson. When you do that,

02:08:53.640 --> 02:08:55.699
then you get a Michael Jordan. You do that, then

02:08:55.699 --> 02:08:58.199
you get an elite of the elite. You get what David

02:08:58.199 --> 02:09:00.880
Goggins always liked to call uncommon amongst

02:09:00.880 --> 02:09:04.579
uncommon men. Right, right. And that's the real

02:09:04.579 --> 02:09:07.760
hard thing to do. Because so many of these like

02:09:07.760 --> 02:09:10.140
really gifted guys in the gym, they always kind

02:09:10.140 --> 02:09:13.289
of. peter off and disappear and when they're

02:09:13.289 --> 02:09:15.689
in a fight where they fight another gifted guy

02:09:15.689 --> 02:09:17.329
that maybe trained a little harder than them

02:09:17.329 --> 02:09:18.670
and maybe he's got a little bit more experience

02:09:18.670 --> 02:09:20.850
they realize man I don't want to struggle like

02:09:20.850 --> 02:09:23.310
that I don't like that I don't like that feeling

02:09:23.310 --> 02:09:25.250
I like beating up guys in the gym that are below

02:09:25.250 --> 02:09:28.579
me Yeah, and then you got to deal with that person

02:09:28.579 --> 02:09:31.460
in the mirror. Yeah. And that's not— It's hard

02:09:31.460 --> 02:09:33.619
for guys when they're the hammer their whole

02:09:33.619 --> 02:09:35.439
life, and then one day they're the nail. Yeah.

02:09:35.500 --> 02:09:38.279
And you see guys that are, like, really elite

02:09:38.279 --> 02:09:40.359
that are dominating, and then one day they get

02:09:40.359 --> 02:09:41.880
fucked up, and then you never see them again.

02:09:42.380 --> 02:09:44.560
Yeah. It's oftentimes. But then you'll see the

02:09:44.560 --> 02:09:46.659
guy who, like, gets fucked up a bunch of times

02:09:46.659 --> 02:09:48.880
and keeps showing up. Oh, yeah. He keeps showing

02:09:48.880 --> 02:09:50.960
up. He keeps learning. And then you realize,

02:09:51.039 --> 02:09:53.319
like, oh, this guy is now elite. Yeah. And those

02:09:53.319 --> 02:09:55.560
are the true heroes. Right. You know, right.

02:09:55.739 --> 02:09:57.600
You know, there's people I don't want. You know,

02:09:57.600 --> 02:10:01.220
sometimes you get get in trouble pointing out

02:10:01.220 --> 02:10:03.520
people like like I don't want to say somebody

02:10:03.520 --> 02:10:06.880
like Izzy or whatever. But like you see the the

02:10:06.880 --> 02:10:11.220
the people who are used to having that ability

02:10:11.220 --> 02:10:14.020
over other people and when it gets hard. Right.

02:10:14.060 --> 02:10:17.680
Right. And then it's like even sometimes there's

02:10:17.680 --> 02:10:22.189
a there's a talk about even Tyson as just. People

02:10:22.189 --> 02:10:26.770
are just spectators. When you go, oh, man, this

02:10:26.770 --> 02:10:32.250
guy's so gifted. Now, some of the knock has been

02:10:32.250 --> 02:10:36.970
that when it became hard, you hadn't seen him

02:10:36.970 --> 02:10:41.329
dig down and overcome that thing. Right, right.

02:10:41.729 --> 02:10:43.689
You know, because a lot of times when it got

02:10:43.689 --> 02:10:46.689
hard, it was like he just, you know, kind of

02:10:46.689 --> 02:10:49.529
tapped out. Yeah. And so that's something that...

02:10:50.250 --> 02:10:53.829
You know, not to disparage him, but just as people

02:10:53.829 --> 02:10:57.789
are looking at life, we look at those things

02:10:57.789 --> 02:11:00.689
and we can take a lot of meaning from that and

02:11:00.689 --> 02:11:04.750
apply that and say, oh, wow. I mean, that's on

02:11:04.750 --> 02:11:09.789
him to say, oh, was that the case? Or is it something

02:11:09.789 --> 02:11:13.310
that, I don't know. I think with Mike, it's a

02:11:13.310 --> 02:11:17.060
very special case because I think. he had the

02:11:17.060 --> 02:11:19.739
elite coaching in the beginning with custom auto

02:11:19.739 --> 02:11:24.020
and training. And then when cuss died, he was

02:11:24.020 --> 02:11:27.640
kind of left with all this amazing ability that

02:11:27.640 --> 02:11:30.659
he had developed when he was young, but not with

02:11:30.659 --> 02:11:33.680
the elite coaching. Like, so if Mike had left

02:11:33.680 --> 02:11:37.659
when custom auto died, if he had then went to

02:11:37.659 --> 02:11:40.560
Emmanuel Stewart or if the, you know what I'm

02:11:40.560 --> 02:11:43.439
saying? If he had then went to an elite boxing

02:11:43.439 --> 02:11:46.899
coach and had someone, analyze his style, and

02:11:46.899 --> 02:11:48.859
someone he really respected. Respected, yes,

02:11:49.000 --> 02:11:51.420
absolutely. That he could still maintain that

02:11:51.420 --> 02:11:54.100
same level of discipline when he was the 21 -year

02:11:54.100 --> 02:11:56.439
-old dominating the world. Oh, my God, but he

02:11:56.439 --> 02:11:59.060
had so much pressure on him. So much. Because,

02:11:59.159 --> 02:12:00.760
you know, I had to play him, so I had to study

02:12:00.760 --> 02:12:03.380
everything he did. And it's interesting because,

02:12:03.500 --> 02:12:07.340
oh, my God, like, I always viewed him as somebody

02:12:07.340 --> 02:12:09.539
who was always looking for a father figure. Yes.

02:12:09.659 --> 02:12:13.439
And I would study him, and, you know, with Customato,

02:12:13.520 --> 02:12:16.699
he would dress like Customato. He's a young black

02:12:16.699 --> 02:12:21.760
guy from Brooklyn with suspenders. Right. You

02:12:21.760 --> 02:12:26.199
know, and a cabbie hat. Yeah. And then when Custom

02:12:26.199 --> 02:12:29.340
Auto was gone, he was around Kevin Rooney. And

02:12:29.340 --> 02:12:32.220
Kevin Rooney had this really fast way of talking.

02:12:32.680 --> 02:12:34.680
And it seemed like he adapted that. And when

02:12:34.680 --> 02:12:43.560
he was with... Swatwell? No, no. Shoot, why am

02:12:43.560 --> 02:12:48.300
I blanking? The other manager... Jim Jacobs?

02:12:48.500 --> 02:12:50.640
Jim Jacobs. You know, Jim Jacobs was married.

02:12:51.180 --> 02:12:54.020
And I think marriage became important to him

02:12:54.020 --> 02:12:56.039
at that point because he was really under the

02:12:56.039 --> 02:12:59.920
umbrella of Jim Jacobs. And then when he was

02:12:59.920 --> 02:13:06.220
with... Robin Givens? With Don King. Oh, yeah.

02:13:06.899 --> 02:13:09.100
The N -word is every third word out of his mouth,

02:13:09.159 --> 02:13:12.560
very much like Don King. He goes to prison. He's

02:13:12.560 --> 02:13:14.680
got two father figures on him, Mao Zedong, and

02:13:14.680 --> 02:13:18.979
he's got Arthur Ashe on another shoulder. And

02:13:18.979 --> 02:13:24.180
I would just notice that even speech patterns

02:13:24.180 --> 02:13:28.460
would change. And I looked at him as, wow, here's

02:13:28.460 --> 02:13:31.220
a guy that I felt like I identified with a great

02:13:31.220 --> 02:13:34.300
deal because coming from the same kind of place.

02:13:35.939 --> 02:13:39.100
But yeah, it's interesting because I think a

02:13:39.100 --> 02:13:42.659
lot of people don't know. How much struggle he

02:13:42.659 --> 02:13:44.500
had to deal with, because the people think that

02:13:44.500 --> 02:13:48.520
Kevin Rooney was kind of a savior in that situation

02:13:48.520 --> 02:13:50.800
when he wasn't. Kevin Rooney explained to me

02:13:50.800 --> 02:13:54.460
directly that he he says, if you ever see Mike,

02:13:54.640 --> 02:13:59.300
please, please apologize for me. Because when

02:13:59.300 --> 02:14:03.640
I mean, when Mike was was married to Robin Givens,

02:14:03.659 --> 02:14:07.720
he didn't want to do this interview. And then

02:14:07.720 --> 02:14:10.359
turn around, Kevin Rooney did the interview and.

02:14:10.970 --> 02:14:13.149
Kevin Rooney's like, I really messed up when

02:14:13.149 --> 02:14:17.090
I did that. And Kevin Rooney even told me that

02:14:17.090 --> 02:14:20.609
when at the Spinks fight alone, Kevin made like

02:14:20.609 --> 02:14:24.770
over a million dollars. He left, he left that

02:14:24.770 --> 02:14:27.869
casino owing. Mike had to bail him out like so

02:14:27.869 --> 02:14:32.170
many times. And so people thought, oh, Kevin

02:14:32.170 --> 02:14:36.670
Rooney is in control. No, Mike was, I mean, he

02:14:36.670 --> 02:14:39.449
had so much pressure on him. And I think with,

02:14:41.080 --> 02:14:45.920
with Don King trying to hire Mike's cohorts to

02:14:45.920 --> 02:14:48.039
help out, if he's going to hang out with him

02:14:48.039 --> 02:14:51.619
anyway, to try to just do that. He had so much,

02:14:51.659 --> 02:14:54.439
this dude had so much pressure on him. It's unbelievable.

02:14:54.939 --> 02:14:57.140
And Don King definitely took advantage of that.

02:14:57.539 --> 02:15:02.000
Yeah, I believe so. You know, because I knew

02:15:02.000 --> 02:15:04.680
Don from, because I was always in the fight camps

02:15:04.680 --> 02:15:08.239
with Frankie Louse. In fact, that's how I got

02:15:08.239 --> 02:15:11.560
to first meet Mike Tyson. When Mike was in prison,

02:15:11.659 --> 02:15:14.220
Frankie put Mike and I on the phone together.

02:15:14.840 --> 02:15:19.140
And so I would, you know, do my little kind of

02:15:19.140 --> 02:15:23.140
interviewing of Mike while he was in prison because

02:15:23.140 --> 02:15:26.279
I was going to be playing him. So I wanted the

02:15:26.279 --> 02:15:29.659
whole story. Right. And I went to Catskills on

02:15:29.659 --> 02:15:33.279
my own and knocked on that door and spent time

02:15:33.279 --> 02:15:35.520
with the people he grew up with in that house.

02:15:36.199 --> 02:15:38.399
Oh, wow. You know, so I learned a lot. There's

02:15:38.399 --> 02:15:40.340
a lot that, you know, the public doesn't know.

02:15:41.100 --> 02:15:43.520
And I think he was concerned about, you know,

02:15:43.520 --> 02:15:47.579
coming out. And, you know, it didn't. And so

02:15:47.579 --> 02:15:52.699
it was really interesting. I was front and center

02:15:52.699 --> 02:15:56.300
on how much pressure this guy had to deal with.

02:15:56.500 --> 02:15:58.800
He had to kind of develop with the whole world

02:15:58.800 --> 02:16:01.840
looking over his shoulder. Yeah. And he was 20.

02:16:02.570 --> 02:16:04.989
Which is crazy. Youngest ever heavyweight champion

02:16:04.989 --> 02:16:08.270
in the world. Went from being a 13 -year -old

02:16:08.270 --> 02:16:11.470
kid with no family to being adopted by this guy

02:16:11.470 --> 02:16:14.489
who's not just training him but also hypnotizing

02:16:14.489 --> 02:16:17.529
him. And then he's got Jim Jacobs who exposes

02:16:17.529 --> 02:16:20.329
him to this library of all the greatest fighters

02:16:20.329 --> 02:16:23.170
of all time. He's watching video footage of it.

02:16:23.170 --> 02:16:26.449
Bill Caton. Yeah. Bill Caton and Jim. Yeah. It's

02:16:26.449 --> 02:16:28.869
an extraordinary story because it's like unlike

02:16:28.869 --> 02:16:31.449
anyone else's. Like the environment that he was

02:16:31.449 --> 02:16:36.690
exposed to and the way it – produced this guy

02:16:36.690 --> 02:16:40.290
who was unlike any heavyweight before I mean

02:16:40.290 --> 02:16:42.489
in his prime I always point to the Marvis Frazier

02:16:42.489 --> 02:16:44.149
fight I always tell people you want to see like

02:16:44.149 --> 02:16:46.909
the scariest motherfucker that ever stepped into

02:16:46.909 --> 02:16:49.590
the ring Mike Tyson versus Marvis Frazier he

02:16:49.590 --> 02:16:53.950
was just undeniable just undeniable but that

02:16:54.319 --> 02:16:56.840
pressure the kind of pressure that no one could

02:16:56.840 --> 02:16:59.280
explain what that's like there's no internet

02:16:59.280 --> 02:17:01.860
back then so there's not as many favorite famous

02:17:01.860 --> 02:17:05.180
people so like who's gonna who's he gonna relate

02:17:05.180 --> 02:17:08.559
to who's gonna tell him what this is like who's

02:17:08.559 --> 02:17:11.120
gonna there's no one like him yeah you had muhammad

02:17:11.120 --> 02:17:13.780
ali you had a few other guys that could maybe

02:17:13.780 --> 02:17:17.659
tell him what it was like but for the most part

02:17:17.659 --> 02:17:20.579
he's not he's got no roadmap And he's out there

02:17:20.579 --> 02:17:23.379
in this world of superstardom. We could do whatever

02:17:23.379 --> 02:17:25.719
the fuck he wants. Everywhere he goes, people

02:17:25.719 --> 02:17:28.340
are screaming and cheering. And he's knocking

02:17:28.340 --> 02:17:30.360
everybody out in the first round. Yeah, yeah.

02:17:30.479 --> 02:17:33.239
The pressure on that, man. And then they have

02:17:33.239 --> 02:17:36.280
to fight Holyfield. Right. A guy who was really

02:17:36.280 --> 02:17:38.840
kind of more like a big brother to him throughout

02:17:38.840 --> 02:17:42.340
his life, you know, his professional life. Because,

02:17:42.440 --> 02:17:47.090
you know, Holyfield was his cruiserweight. You

02:17:47.090 --> 02:17:49.409
know, and Holyfield was the type of guy, how

02:17:49.409 --> 02:17:50.969
you doing, Mike? You checking on him and all

02:17:50.969 --> 02:17:52.930
that type of stuff. Then he has to fight this

02:17:52.930 --> 02:17:57.090
guy. Deep down, like, he's got to fight this

02:17:57.090 --> 02:18:01.709
guy who's got this reputation as a holy man and

02:18:01.709 --> 02:18:04.729
all this type of stuff. And then I remember being

02:18:04.729 --> 02:18:08.229
at that fight, and I remember the press conference,

02:18:08.409 --> 02:18:11.469
and Mike was, like, really manufacturing this

02:18:11.469 --> 02:18:16.030
hatred that I was like, that's not real. he's

02:18:16.030 --> 02:18:19.770
trying to dig down to really get this edge to

02:18:19.770 --> 02:18:23.409
really hate Holyfield and I was like I thought

02:18:23.409 --> 02:18:29.010
that was a mistake but and I don't think psychologically

02:18:29.010 --> 02:18:33.739
he was in his game right Holyfield had an edge

02:18:33.739 --> 02:18:35.180
on him. Yeah, psychologically. I think it was

02:18:35.180 --> 02:18:37.780
also the fact the holy man thing was a big deal.

02:18:39.180 --> 02:18:41.799
Holyfield had this incredible belief in God,

02:18:41.920 --> 02:18:44.899
and he really believed that God was looking out

02:18:44.899 --> 02:18:48.940
for him and he was going to go in there and couldn't

02:18:48.940 --> 02:18:52.719
be deterred. Dude, the third round. I mean, look,

02:18:52.799 --> 02:18:54.659
of course, I studied all this stuff on Mike Tyson.

02:18:54.799 --> 02:18:58.840
Third round of that first fight got chills because

02:18:58.840 --> 02:19:03.010
think about it. He heard something that he never

02:19:03.010 --> 02:19:06.690
heard his entire career. Everybody started chanting

02:19:06.690 --> 02:19:11.170
for the other guy. Right. Holy field, holy field.

02:19:11.270 --> 02:19:14.889
And I swear to you, I saw just the air come out

02:19:14.889 --> 02:19:19.190
of this guy. Yeah. And it was like, I've done

02:19:19.190 --> 02:19:22.069
all of this, and they're chanting for this man.

02:19:22.569 --> 02:19:27.870
And how gracious he was, how Tyson was at the

02:19:27.870 --> 02:19:35.420
end. I felt like that's not a new thought. You

02:19:35.420 --> 02:19:38.840
kind of had that opinion of him. Going into this.

02:19:39.000 --> 02:19:41.840
Well, Holyfield had been through the wars, right?

02:19:41.940 --> 02:19:44.719
He had those wars with Riddick Bowe. He had the

02:19:44.719 --> 02:19:47.299
first war with Dwight Muhammad Kawi. Remember

02:19:47.299 --> 02:19:50.180
that fight at Cruiserweight? Oh, my God. Go back

02:19:50.180 --> 02:19:52.360
and watch that fight. That fight. He had the

02:19:52.360 --> 02:19:56.399
war with Burt Cooper. He had wars. And Holyfield

02:19:56.399 --> 02:19:59.180
was unflappable. He's like, I don't know why

02:19:59.180 --> 02:20:02.299
Mike Chain is about me, but... He's just like...

02:20:04.819 --> 02:20:07.780
He never got angry. Yeah, yeah. It's like, how

02:20:07.780 --> 02:20:10.459
you doing? It's hard to maintain, like, anger

02:20:10.459 --> 02:20:14.500
for that dude. He's just like, okay. Well, that's

02:20:14.500 --> 02:20:16.079
also terrifying, too, because you know you can't

02:20:16.079 --> 02:20:17.959
get in there. You're trying to get in that head,

02:20:18.059 --> 02:20:20.040
and it's like you're not getting in there. God's

02:20:20.040 --> 02:20:21.819
in there. Yeah, and then it's like, if you look

02:20:21.819 --> 02:20:25.440
at it, you know, Mike Tyson was committing to

02:20:25.440 --> 02:20:28.799
every first blow. Yep. Holyfield is a counter

02:20:28.799 --> 02:20:32.559
fighter. Fake him, let him throw that counter,

02:20:32.700 --> 02:20:37.559
and you got him. And I was like, I think normally

02:20:37.559 --> 02:20:42.000
Mike knows this. Holyfield's center of gravity,

02:20:42.139 --> 02:20:45.440
so different. He's thin -legged, big up top.

02:20:46.020 --> 02:20:49.280
Mike should be able to push him easily. Easily.

02:20:49.920 --> 02:20:53.040
I didn't see the things that I normally saw from

02:20:53.040 --> 02:20:55.620
Mike Tyson in that fight, which made me feel

02:20:55.620 --> 02:20:59.100
like... This is a psychological component. It's

02:20:59.100 --> 02:21:01.000
a psychological component, but it's also a training

02:21:01.000 --> 02:21:03.159
component because, again, he wasn't with an elite

02:21:03.159 --> 02:21:06.459
trainer at that time. It wasn't the same as him

02:21:06.459 --> 02:21:08.600
being trained by Costamano. It wasn't the same.

02:21:08.739 --> 02:21:10.860
He didn't have the bobbing and weaving style

02:21:10.860 --> 02:21:12.500
that he used to have. Do you remember when he

02:21:12.500 --> 02:21:15.500
caught Holyfield with the body shot and the uppercut?

02:21:15.620 --> 02:21:18.639
Yeah. And just like basically you almost said,

02:21:18.700 --> 02:21:22.420
you saw, finish him. Yeah. But he just chilled.

02:21:23.040 --> 02:21:26.649
Do you remember that moment? I don't specifically.

02:21:27.290 --> 02:21:29.209
Yeah, there's a moment. There's a moment like

02:21:29.209 --> 02:21:32.250
that. Where he hurts him. He hurt him. And Holyfield

02:21:32.250 --> 02:21:35.530
looked like it's like. Yeah, but Holyfield would

02:21:35.530 --> 02:21:38.750
rebound. I mean, the really go fights. But you

02:21:38.750 --> 02:21:41.430
look at Tyson. You look at almost everything

02:21:41.430 --> 02:21:45.309
he's done. I thought I was about to see the beginning

02:21:45.309 --> 02:21:48.469
of the end. And I'm like, what the? I remember

02:21:48.469 --> 02:21:50.950
being there going, why isn't he jumping on him?

02:21:52.450 --> 02:21:55.750
You know me. Maybe I'm wrong or whatever, but

02:21:55.750 --> 02:22:00.829
I swear I saw that moment. And I remember going,

02:22:01.010 --> 02:22:03.790
what's going on? Why is he not jumping on him?

02:22:04.870 --> 02:22:07.649
I mean, it's interesting. It's interesting. Psychology

02:22:07.649 --> 02:22:10.809
plays a big role in how you feel about the opponent.

02:22:10.889 --> 02:22:13.329
And the opponent essentially holds up a mirror

02:22:13.329 --> 02:22:15.610
and allows you to look at yourself. And when

02:22:15.610 --> 02:22:17.850
he's comparing himself to this holy man, he probably

02:22:17.850 --> 02:22:22.850
didn't like it. Joe, you know, I think. That's

02:22:22.850 --> 02:22:25.090
the way I thought about it. Of course, who am

02:22:25.090 --> 02:22:27.409
I to do it? But it's my opinion. Those dudes

02:22:27.409 --> 02:22:29.809
with that kind of character, like Holyfield had

02:22:29.809 --> 02:22:32.750
at the time, those are scary guys. Because they

02:22:32.750 --> 02:22:36.090
can't be broken mentally. Right, right. And if

02:22:36.090 --> 02:22:38.909
you try to break them physically and he rebounds,

02:22:38.930 --> 02:22:42.229
like, oh, God. How much do I have left in the

02:22:42.229 --> 02:22:45.149
tank? Yeah, yeah. How many more of these shots

02:22:45.149 --> 02:22:47.389
can I take? Yeah, no, it's different if somebody,

02:22:47.469 --> 02:22:50.469
like, taunted you. Mm -hmm. Now you can, you

02:22:50.469 --> 02:22:52.670
know, manufacture, like, you know. Right, right.

02:22:52.729 --> 02:22:55.350
But when a guy's just like, okay, I'm just doing

02:22:55.350 --> 02:23:00.129
my thing. You kind of start going, oh, is it

02:23:00.129 --> 02:23:02.889
me? Right. Because you don't, you know, it's

02:23:02.889 --> 02:23:08.010
like, that's when you have the fate oars. Right.

02:23:08.149 --> 02:23:10.930
Somebody like that is just like. Like this. It's

02:23:10.930 --> 02:23:14.149
like you drown yourself. Stoic. Because I can't

02:23:14.149 --> 02:23:16.489
derive nothing from him. Oh, he was the best

02:23:16.489 --> 02:23:18.510
at it. Yeah, yeah. Fedor was the best at it.

02:23:18.709 --> 02:23:21.049
Fedor would be in the middle of the most chaotic

02:23:21.049 --> 02:23:23.409
war, and it looked like he was just sipping a

02:23:23.409 --> 02:23:25.670
cup of coffee. Yeah. It was crazy. There was

02:23:25.670 --> 02:23:28.709
no one like that guy. He's one of the most unique

02:23:28.709 --> 02:23:32.930
characters. I think we were robbed of one of

02:23:32.930 --> 02:23:34.829
the greatest heavyweight matchups of all time.

02:23:35.280 --> 02:23:37.959
when they never figured out how to put Cain Velasquez

02:23:37.959 --> 02:23:40.159
versus Fedor when they were both in their primes.

02:23:40.319 --> 02:23:45.459
Man. Cain Velasquez is the scariest person I've

02:23:45.459 --> 02:23:48.479
ever seen, as far as I'm concerned. Like, if

02:23:48.479 --> 02:23:50.479
there was one guy that, like, because I pride

02:23:50.479 --> 02:23:53.920
myself, I get in a ring with anybody. That guy,

02:23:54.079 --> 02:23:58.709
man. He never got tired. Man, he's just a juggernaut.

02:23:59.030 --> 02:24:01.409
He had cardio for a heavyweight that was like

02:24:01.409 --> 02:24:03.450
a marathon runner. It didn't make any sense.

02:24:03.549 --> 02:24:05.889
He was a 240 -pound guy who never got tired.

02:24:06.010 --> 02:24:09.110
Yeah, didn't— Perfect technique. Yeah, and I

02:24:09.110 --> 02:24:13.889
think the fights with— Junior Dos Santos? I feel

02:24:13.889 --> 02:24:16.489
like they ruined each other. Yes. I feel like

02:24:16.489 --> 02:24:17.989
they ruined each other. Well, I think certainly

02:24:17.989 --> 02:24:20.469
ruined Junior, especially the second fight. The

02:24:20.469 --> 02:24:22.329
first fight, Junior caught. The first fight,

02:24:22.450 --> 02:24:24.170
Kane should have never took that fight. Kane

02:24:24.170 --> 02:24:25.950
had to take that fight because it was on Fox.

02:24:26.110 --> 02:24:28.190
It was a big deal. It was the main event of the

02:24:28.190 --> 02:24:30.809
Fox, the first Fox card, and Kane blew his knee

02:24:30.809 --> 02:24:33.629
out. So if you look at that fight, Kane's wearing

02:24:33.629 --> 02:24:36.549
a knee brace. His knee was fucked up. His meniscus

02:24:36.549 --> 02:24:38.530
was torn. He was all fucked up. He couldn't.

02:24:38.860 --> 02:24:41.020
anchor on it. He couldn't really post on it.

02:24:41.079 --> 02:24:43.219
And then he couldn't get out of the way. And

02:24:43.219 --> 02:24:44.959
Junior caught him with a big right hand, cracked

02:24:44.959 --> 02:24:47.440
him, dropped him, stopped him. And then he comes

02:24:47.440 --> 02:24:49.659
back. Here it is. Here's Tyson versus Holyfield.

02:24:53.200 --> 02:24:57.559
Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. Yeah, but Holyfield's

02:24:57.559 --> 02:25:02.819
still there. He's still there. Remember, he has

02:25:02.819 --> 02:25:07.030
a chance. He has a chance right now. You heard

02:25:07.030 --> 02:25:09.569
what he said, right? Mm -hmm, yeah. But that

02:25:09.569 --> 02:25:12.809
took some wind out of Evander right away. Biggest

02:25:12.809 --> 02:25:15.290
round for Mike yet. But the thing about Evander

02:25:15.290 --> 02:25:17.549
is Evander was always there. He had been through

02:25:17.549 --> 02:25:19.690
these kind of fights before. But I don't know

02:25:19.690 --> 02:25:23.010
where I am, but I was there. And something about

02:25:23.010 --> 02:25:27.329
seeing that, I felt like, oh, he's about to take

02:25:27.329 --> 02:25:29.989
him out. But I think because Evander rebounded,

02:25:30.010 --> 02:25:32.950
and Evander had a history of rebounding. Oh,

02:25:32.950 --> 02:25:34.850
sure, sure, absolutely. He had a history of wars.

02:25:35.649 --> 02:25:38.530
Absolutely, but it still doesn't change the fact

02:25:38.530 --> 02:25:40.709
that there was, I feel like there was an opportunity,

02:25:40.850 --> 02:25:45.530
and that was a very un -Tyson -like situation.

02:25:45.670 --> 02:25:48.629
I just don't think Tyson was Tyson anymore by

02:25:48.629 --> 02:25:51.010
this time. I mean, I think he was a one -punch

02:25:51.010 --> 02:25:53.590
guy by this time. He wasn't cutting those crazy

02:25:53.590 --> 02:25:56.030
angles where he would slide off to the side and

02:25:56.030 --> 02:25:58.290
rip the body. He was standing right in front

02:25:58.290 --> 02:26:01.059
of guys. Yeah. He lost a lot of what made him

02:26:01.059 --> 02:26:02.920
special, which was the speed of combinations

02:26:02.920 --> 02:26:05.879
and the movement. The movement is primarily because

02:26:05.879 --> 02:26:08.719
he couldn't have never gotten that far if he

02:26:08.719 --> 02:26:10.520
didn't do that. Show that Marvis Frazier fight.

02:26:11.100 --> 02:26:13.360
Show that Marvis Frazier fight. Tyson versus

02:26:13.360 --> 02:26:16.239
Marvis Frazier is my favorite Tyson performance.

02:26:17.290 --> 02:26:18.790
Because Marvis Frazier looked like he was going

02:26:18.790 --> 02:26:20.989
to a funeral at the beginning of the fight. Look

02:26:20.989 --> 02:26:23.790
at him. I mean, you feel the energy from his

02:26:23.790 --> 02:26:25.930
face. And he didn't play the Covenant right after

02:26:25.930 --> 02:26:30.750
this with the grizzly bear just mauling. It's

02:26:30.750 --> 02:26:35.209
the same thing. Here it is. He's just all over

02:26:35.209 --> 02:26:38.030
Marvis, like from the beginning. This was on

02:26:38.030 --> 02:26:40.350
ABC Wide World of Sports. I remember watching

02:26:40.350 --> 02:26:42.670
this at home. But look at the bobbing and the

02:26:42.670 --> 02:26:44.510
weaving. It's not just right in front of him.

02:26:44.530 --> 02:26:48.190
It's angles. Like, right here. Boom! Oh, man.

02:26:50.569 --> 02:26:56.370
Oh, man. That was when he was the champ. I mean,

02:26:56.370 --> 02:26:58.290
he wasn't the champ yet, but he was the champ.

02:26:58.469 --> 02:27:01.190
He was about to fight Trevor Burbick, but everybody

02:27:01.190 --> 02:27:03.989
was like, oh, my God, he's real. Yeah, here's

02:27:03.989 --> 02:27:06.489
the thing that sparked some controversy. Mike

02:27:06.489 --> 02:27:10.420
Tyson versus Muhammad Ali. It depends on which

02:27:10.420 --> 02:27:12.239
Tyson and which Muhammad Ali. Well, the best

02:27:12.239 --> 02:27:15.739
of both. I think the best Muhammad Ali wasn't

02:27:15.739 --> 02:27:17.620
Muhammad Ali. I think it was Cassius Clay. I

02:27:17.620 --> 02:27:19.479
think the best was when he fought Cleveland Big

02:27:19.479 --> 02:27:22.500
Cat Williams. To me, I always tell people, like,

02:27:22.500 --> 02:27:24.399
you want to know Ali before they took his title

02:27:24.399 --> 02:27:26.399
away, before they put him on the shelf for three

02:27:26.399 --> 02:27:28.659
years because he wouldn't fight in Vietnam? Watch

02:27:28.659 --> 02:27:30.700
Cleveland Big Cat Williams because Cleveland

02:27:30.700 --> 02:27:33.799
was a big, scary power puncher, and Muhammad

02:27:33.799 --> 02:27:36.540
Ali was just dancing around him, dancing around

02:27:36.540 --> 02:27:38.280
him. But was he bigger than Muhammad Ali, though?

02:27:38.920 --> 02:27:41.860
See, that's the thing about Muhammad Ali. People

02:27:41.860 --> 02:27:43.760
don't realize he was like the biggest guy in

02:27:43.760 --> 02:27:46.000
the ring. You know, he was only four pounds different

02:27:46.000 --> 02:27:49.399
than Foreman. People don't realize because he

02:27:49.399 --> 02:27:52.000
moves around the way he moves. Back then. But

02:27:52.000 --> 02:27:54.319
in the Cleveland Big Cat Williams days, he was

02:27:54.319 --> 02:27:57.420
lighter. Was he? Yeah, he was only like 215 or

02:27:57.420 --> 02:28:00.840
220. And Cleveland Williams was what? Big. Look

02:28:00.840 --> 02:28:02.899
at the size of Cleveland. Look at his back. Look

02:28:02.899 --> 02:28:04.500
at the back on Cleveland. And look at the legs,

02:28:04.500 --> 02:28:07.569
though. Yeah, but he was a power puncher, man.

02:28:07.670 --> 02:28:10.670
Look at his back. Cleveland was a scary dude,

02:28:10.790 --> 02:28:13.329
man. He might be lean. He might be lean, but

02:28:13.329 --> 02:28:15.930
Muhammad Ali is a big dude. Oh, he's definitely

02:28:15.930 --> 02:28:18.329
a big dude. I think Muhammad Ali is bigger than

02:28:18.329 --> 02:28:21.309
that guy. Maybe. But look at the movement, man.

02:28:21.430 --> 02:28:25.049
Oh, absolutely. So this movement was absent when

02:28:25.049 --> 02:28:27.450
he came back three years later. He never fought

02:28:27.450 --> 02:28:29.950
like this again. And when he fought Cleveland

02:28:29.950 --> 02:28:31.829
Big Cat Williams, Cleveland just did not know

02:28:31.829 --> 02:28:34.409
where he was. Muhammad Ali was 212. Williams

02:28:34.409 --> 02:28:37.489
was 210 that way. Oh, okay. Well, dudes were

02:28:37.489 --> 02:28:39.590
smaller back then. Like think about Rocky Marciano.

02:28:39.750 --> 02:28:42.629
He was only 185. The thing is that people don't

02:28:42.629 --> 02:28:44.389
realize because he's fighting like a lighter

02:28:44.389 --> 02:28:47.750
guy, you got a bigger guy. He didn't – especially

02:28:47.750 --> 02:28:51.510
he'll trick people to coming in, and that magnifies

02:28:51.510 --> 02:28:53.110
everything. Yeah, sort of, but they're basically

02:28:53.110 --> 02:28:55.690
the same size. But 212 is fairly small. This

02:28:55.690 --> 02:28:57.709
is smaller than Mike was when Mike was in his

02:28:57.709 --> 02:29:01.030
prime, and Mike was only like 215, 220. Yeah,

02:29:01.190 --> 02:29:04.030
221. So that's why it's interesting because Mike

02:29:04.030 --> 02:29:06.469
moved his head, and the people who did the best

02:29:06.469 --> 02:29:09.989
against Muhammad Ali were Joe Frazier and Ken

02:29:09.989 --> 02:29:12.030
Norton who moved their heads. Yes, but again,

02:29:12.270 --> 02:29:14.829
these are the guys after this three -year break.

02:29:14.989 --> 02:29:17.250
This three -year break. Muhammad Ali didn't train.

02:29:17.489 --> 02:29:20.229
He didn't train at all for three years. When

02:29:20.229 --> 02:29:22.770
you watch when he comes back after that, like,

02:29:22.809 --> 02:29:26.229
come on, son. The speed. And Cleveland's like,

02:29:26.290 --> 02:29:29.129
what the fuck is going on? But speed and a bigger

02:29:29.129 --> 02:29:32.290
guy. That's the thing. That's the thing. Because,

02:29:32.350 --> 02:29:35.129
like, you know, you thought. when we were going

02:29:35.129 --> 02:29:37.229
into this clip, that he was bigger than Muhammad

02:29:37.229 --> 02:29:40.370
Ali. I did. But the thing is, people don't realize

02:29:40.370 --> 02:29:43.530
how big Muhammad Ali actually was. Because George

02:29:43.530 --> 02:29:45.989
Foreman, you know, was a monster. Look at these

02:29:45.989 --> 02:29:48.750
combinations. His legs are bigger than George

02:29:48.750 --> 02:29:50.969
Foreman's. And we know where the power is, right?

02:29:51.229 --> 02:29:53.170
Well, George Foreman, what did he weigh when

02:29:53.170 --> 02:29:57.129
they fought? 218, and I think Muhammad Ali was

02:29:57.129 --> 02:30:00.010
214. They were like right. So the actual fight

02:30:00.010 --> 02:30:02.889
day, who knows? who was heavier. Right, right,

02:30:02.889 --> 02:30:05.090
right. I'm just saying it's interesting. It is.

02:30:05.129 --> 02:30:07.930
Because you got a guy the same size as Foreman

02:30:07.930 --> 02:30:11.030
moving faster. Yeah, but he didn't in that fight.

02:30:11.129 --> 02:30:12.709
In that fight, he mostly laid on the ropes, remember?

02:30:13.110 --> 02:30:15.129
Well, he did the rope -a -dope, but I'm saying

02:30:15.129 --> 02:30:20.090
he's still a big... 220. 212 to 220. Pretty close.

02:30:20.309 --> 02:30:23.850
Yeah, I've seen it different. He wasn't the same

02:30:23.850 --> 02:30:28.389
guy. If George Foreman of that time fought the

02:30:28.389 --> 02:30:30.889
Muhammad Ali that fought Cleveland Big Cat Williams,

02:30:31.110 --> 02:30:32.930
it's a completely different fight. Foreman's

02:30:32.930 --> 02:30:35.190
getting pieced up. Foreman's getting pieced up

02:30:35.190 --> 02:30:38.389
from the outside, and Ali was just picking him

02:30:38.389 --> 02:30:40.450
apart and moving, and Foreman's swinging it in.

02:30:40.829 --> 02:30:43.729
He was like nobody else before him, man. He was

02:30:43.729 --> 02:30:46.049
so different. He was so different. But those

02:30:46.049 --> 02:30:48.819
three years. When he had to take three years,

02:30:48.879 --> 02:30:50.420
and he didn't train at all, and then he came

02:30:50.420 --> 02:30:54.280
back, and now he's 30, and no strength and conditioning

02:30:54.280 --> 02:30:57.680
for three years, no running, no boxing. His body

02:30:57.680 --> 02:31:00.280
looked different. Who did he fight when he came

02:31:00.280 --> 02:31:06.639
back? He fought... Lyle? No, that white dude

02:31:06.639 --> 02:31:10.059
had horrible brain damage towards the end. Cobb?

02:31:10.180 --> 02:31:11.940
Jerry Cooney. Oh, Jerry Quarry. No, no, no, Jerry

02:31:11.940 --> 02:31:14.100
Quarry. Jerry Quarry, okay. Yeah, when he fought

02:31:14.100 --> 02:31:15.739
Jerry Quarry. See if you can find that fight.

02:31:15.920 --> 02:31:19.000
Now, look at his body when you see it. You see

02:31:19.000 --> 02:31:22.719
his body smooth. His footwork doesn't look the

02:31:22.719 --> 02:31:26.379
same. His timing is off. He had a ton of ring

02:31:26.379 --> 02:31:29.899
rust. He just didn't—what's that, Jimmy? He just

02:31:29.899 --> 02:31:32.280
didn't look the same. He didn't look the same,

02:31:32.340 --> 02:31:35.389
and I think that— That three years, they fucked

02:31:35.389 --> 02:31:38.010
him, man. Yeah. They fucked him. They fucked

02:31:38.010 --> 02:31:40.510
him. And, I mean, look, it made him a cultural

02:31:40.510 --> 02:31:43.250
hero because he wasn't willing to fight in Vietnam.

02:31:43.569 --> 02:31:45.530
And, you know, he famously, like, look at his

02:31:45.530 --> 02:31:48.190
body. It's different, man. He's just not the

02:31:48.190 --> 02:31:51.649
same guy anymore. He's not moving as fast. And

02:31:51.649 --> 02:31:54.229
Jerry Quarry was just a really tough guy who

02:31:54.229 --> 02:31:56.010
was, you know, famous for being able to take

02:31:56.010 --> 02:31:59.690
a beating. Yeah. Like, Ali didn't have the endurance

02:31:59.690 --> 02:32:02.170
anymore. Like, look at him. He's just not the

02:32:02.170 --> 02:32:06.489
same guy anymore, man. Yeah. He was a shadow

02:32:06.489 --> 02:32:08.909
of what he was before. He still went on to win

02:32:08.909 --> 02:32:11.510
the title. He still went on. But I always wonder

02:32:11.510 --> 02:32:14.649
what he would have been if those three years

02:32:14.649 --> 02:32:17.930
were not stolen from him in his peak, in his

02:32:17.930 --> 02:32:21.030
prime. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That would have been

02:32:21.030 --> 02:32:25.370
something else. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's one

02:32:25.370 --> 02:32:27.389
interesting thing. Another interesting thing

02:32:27.389 --> 02:32:30.129
about Ali is, like, try to find him throwing

02:32:30.129 --> 02:32:33.829
a body shot. Right. Not a lot of those. No, he

02:32:33.829 --> 02:32:36.950
almost never did. Maybe a jab or two to the body.

02:32:39.010 --> 02:32:41.670
It's true. It'd be interesting to count up all

02:32:41.670 --> 02:32:43.989
the body shots throughout his whole career, and

02:32:43.989 --> 02:32:48.530
you might get 10. That's true. Yeah, it's interesting.

02:32:48.989 --> 02:32:52.610
Yeah, it is. That's why when people talk about

02:32:52.610 --> 02:32:55.069
the greatest boxer, of course, he's one of the

02:32:55.069 --> 02:32:57.790
greatest human beings. Greatest Americans ever.

02:32:58.090 --> 02:33:00.430
Right, right. Like, just, man, the stuff he's,

02:33:00.549 --> 02:33:03.610
he put it, talk about putting himself out there

02:33:03.610 --> 02:33:06.770
for, you know, as far as a servant of the world.

02:33:07.010 --> 02:33:09.670
There's nobody, I don't know anybody who compares

02:33:09.670 --> 02:33:12.290
to him. Also, the personality. When he would

02:33:12.290 --> 02:33:16.270
go on talk shows, and he was just so fun. How

02:33:16.270 --> 02:33:18.590
sharp was he? Oh, so sharp. And all those things

02:33:18.590 --> 02:33:21.600
were memorized. One of my favorite ones was Howard

02:33:21.600 --> 02:33:24.500
Cosell said, you're a very truculent champ. And

02:33:24.500 --> 02:33:26.500
he goes, whatever truculent means, if it's good,

02:33:26.559 --> 02:33:31.360
I'm that. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, he was

02:33:31.360 --> 02:33:34.100
just a different human being. He was not scared

02:33:34.100 --> 02:33:36.899
of anything, man. There's some stuff that, some

02:33:36.899 --> 02:33:39.979
interviews that he's being real controversial.

02:33:40.659 --> 02:33:43.899
Like, he would actually talk shit to people and

02:33:43.899 --> 02:33:46.059
talk about whooping their ass. You know, just

02:33:46.059 --> 02:33:47.579
recently I've seen some stuff that I was like,

02:33:47.639 --> 02:33:50.280
wow, I hadn't seen this one. Oh, yeah. If anybody

02:33:50.280 --> 02:33:52.780
disrespected him, if anybody like if they wouldn't

02:33:52.780 --> 02:33:54.459
call him Muhammad Ali, if they were calling him

02:33:54.459 --> 02:33:56.879
Cassius Clay, he would fuck them up. What's my

02:33:56.879 --> 02:34:00.639
name? Pop. What's my name? Pop. Yeah. Yeah. He

02:34:00.639 --> 02:34:04.950
was a special person. And just. culturally, like

02:34:04.950 --> 02:34:07.530
one of the most significant figures ever in the

02:34:07.530 --> 02:34:10.389
history of America. Because at a time where the

02:34:10.389 --> 02:34:12.969
world was torn, like, why the fuck are we in

02:34:12.969 --> 02:34:16.170
Vietnam? And this one guy says, I'm not doing

02:34:16.170 --> 02:34:18.049
this. And then they're like, okay, we're going

02:34:18.049 --> 02:34:19.729
to strip your title away from you. And then for

02:34:19.729 --> 02:34:23.569
three years. He was persecuted and the whole

02:34:23.569 --> 02:34:26.030
world was watching and they eventually let him

02:34:26.030 --> 02:34:28.989
fight again. By then we had realized that Vietnam

02:34:28.989 --> 02:34:31.770
was not a just war. And this guy, they had taken

02:34:31.770 --> 02:34:33.850
three years of his life away from him because

02:34:33.850 --> 02:34:36.170
he wasn't willing to participate. Yeah, man.

02:34:36.190 --> 02:34:39.110
What a hero, man. A real hero. A real hero. And

02:34:39.110 --> 02:34:42.110
like, again, a cultural icon, like just a different

02:34:42.110 --> 02:34:44.530
kind of human being that inspired so many people

02:34:44.530 --> 02:34:47.290
outside of fighting. My parents were hippies

02:34:47.290 --> 02:34:51.149
and my parents wanted to watch the. Leon Spinks

02:34:51.149 --> 02:34:53.809
rematch when he fought Leon Spinks. Like, everybody

02:34:53.809 --> 02:34:56.069
was sitting around. I'm like, I remember being

02:34:56.069 --> 02:34:57.969
a little kid going, I can't believe they want

02:34:57.969 --> 02:34:59.989
to watch this fight. This is so weird to me.

02:35:00.110 --> 02:35:02.690
Like, they want to watch a fight because that's

02:35:02.690 --> 02:35:04.950
who Muhammad Ali was. He was just different.

02:35:05.090 --> 02:35:08.790
He meant something to America in a way that no

02:35:08.790 --> 02:35:12.549
other fighter before or since has. Yeah. Man,

02:35:12.670 --> 02:35:16.129
there's so many, man, just even for equal rights

02:35:16.129 --> 02:35:19.290
and just... For everything. Yeah, so much that...

02:35:19.770 --> 02:35:21.450
I really can't think of many people that have

02:35:21.450 --> 02:35:24.829
been more significant. No. And many people think

02:35:24.829 --> 02:35:29.209
about, like, what do you stand for? I mean, this

02:35:29.209 --> 02:35:33.170
guy, he could have easily just taken some stupid

02:35:33.170 --> 02:35:35.229
fucking desk job with the Army or something.

02:35:36.309 --> 02:35:38.489
Easily, yeah. I mean, I did a movie last year

02:35:38.489 --> 02:35:42.149
in Louisville, Kentucky. And while I was there,

02:35:42.209 --> 02:35:45.190
I went and visited Muhammad Ali's gravesite.

02:35:46.630 --> 02:35:49.329
And, dude, man, I didn't expect it. I was just

02:35:49.329 --> 02:35:51.549
like, let me see it. And, dude, I couldn't talk

02:35:51.549 --> 02:35:54.090
for two hours afterwards. I just sat in my car

02:35:54.090 --> 02:35:57.729
and just got overwhelmed just to think what this

02:35:57.729 --> 02:36:01.049
man really meant. It was just like it jacked

02:36:01.049 --> 02:36:03.709
me up. I didn't expect that. Yeah, I can't think

02:36:03.709 --> 02:36:06.690
of another fighter that meant more, like in terms

02:36:06.690 --> 02:36:09.790
of like a cultural icon. Can't think of another

02:36:09.790 --> 02:36:11.569
one. Yeah, and put his life on the line and just

02:36:11.569 --> 02:36:14.709
was so, you know. And that's a cautionary tale

02:36:14.709 --> 02:36:17.770
to fighters, too, about the end, about fighting

02:36:17.770 --> 02:36:20.370
too long. Look, no one ever forgave Larry Holmes

02:36:20.370 --> 02:36:22.430
for beating him up. Larry Holmes, one of the

02:36:22.430 --> 02:36:24.229
greatest heavyweight champions of all time, never

02:36:24.229 --> 02:36:26.969
got his just due because people never forgave

02:36:26.969 --> 02:36:30.190
him for beating up Ali. Yeah, yeah, honestly,

02:36:30.409 --> 02:36:32.270
yeah. Which is crazy. Yeah. You know, it's not

02:36:32.270 --> 02:36:34.270
fair. Didn't make any sense. I mean, Muhammad

02:36:34.270 --> 02:36:36.790
Ali was trying to beat him up. But, you know,

02:36:36.809 --> 02:36:39.450
everybody knew, even though Ali was fighting,

02:36:39.610 --> 02:36:41.850
everybody knew it was over. He wasn't the Muhammad

02:36:41.850 --> 02:36:46.450
Ali of old. Yeah, and he wanted to call it into

02:36:46.450 --> 02:36:50.200
the fight, man. Holmes was like, why am I doing

02:36:50.200 --> 02:36:55.600
this? That was sad. Holmes was never that much

02:36:55.600 --> 02:36:57.979
of a likable presence. It's hard to come behind

02:36:57.979 --> 02:37:00.579
Muhammad Ali. He was never that kind of a person.

02:37:00.659 --> 02:37:04.659
Damn, did he have a jab. That's the best jab

02:37:04.659 --> 02:37:08.680
around. Even when he fought Tyson. He was popping

02:37:08.680 --> 02:37:11.170
him with that jab and it made you wonder. I wonder

02:37:11.170 --> 02:37:12.850
what Larry would have done in his prime. This

02:37:12.850 --> 02:37:14.250
would have been an exciting fight to see in his

02:37:14.250 --> 02:37:16.770
prime. The two of them? Yeah. I still don't think

02:37:16.770 --> 02:37:18.149
he would have been able to beat Prime Tyson.

02:37:18.389 --> 02:37:21.559
No. But it was wild to see. Tyson made his bones

02:37:21.559 --> 02:37:23.639
on fighting bigger guys and making them miss

02:37:23.639 --> 02:37:27.500
and pay for it. Yeah. Yeah. So he load up on

02:37:27.500 --> 02:37:31.520
his legs. And a lot of times when he's landing,

02:37:31.659 --> 02:37:34.559
he's in the air. Yep. He's in the air, man. It

02:37:34.559 --> 02:37:37.459
was the speed, too. Middleweight speed in a heavyweight

02:37:37.459 --> 02:37:40.159
body. He's the fastest. Well, he was one of the

02:37:40.159 --> 02:37:43.270
fastest heavyweights. I think. There's one guy.

02:37:43.610 --> 02:37:46.430
Usyk's pretty damn fast. Oh, Usyk's nice. Yeah.

02:37:46.530 --> 02:37:49.389
Oh, man. Talk about a person. He's funny. That's

02:37:49.389 --> 02:37:51.790
a funny dude. Oh, he's a character. Yeah, yeah.

02:37:52.069 --> 02:37:54.889
And you want to talk about technique, too. And

02:37:54.889 --> 02:37:57.909
another guy was trained by the same guy as Lomachenko.

02:37:58.110 --> 02:38:00.450
Lomachenko's father trained Usyk. Oh, cool, cool.

02:38:00.450 --> 02:38:02.489
Which is also why he's like a heavyweight Usyk.

02:38:02.510 --> 02:38:04.149
Or a heavyweight Lomachenko, rather. Lomachenko,

02:38:04.190 --> 02:38:05.889
yeah, yeah. He's got that footwork and movement

02:38:05.889 --> 02:38:08.790
and that Russian style. You know, Ukrainian -Russian

02:38:08.790 --> 02:38:11.270
style. It's like those guys, they figured out

02:38:11.270 --> 02:38:13.959
moves. and footwork, Bival has it, you know?

02:38:13.959 --> 02:38:18.040
Yeah, yeah. No, look, we're very fortunate that

02:38:18.040 --> 02:38:21.020
we can see all of these incredible human beings

02:38:21.020 --> 02:38:23.159
that have, you know, risked their life and their

02:38:23.159 --> 02:38:25.579
health and put it on the line so we could see

02:38:25.579 --> 02:38:28.579
true lessons about character and technique. Yeah,

02:38:28.639 --> 02:38:31.139
I just wish heavyweights would concentrate on

02:38:31.139 --> 02:38:34.850
technique a little bit more. Right. Well, maybe

02:38:34.850 --> 02:38:37.209
Usyk's changing people's perspective on that.

02:38:37.329 --> 02:38:39.370
Maybe they're realizing, like, wow, you can't

02:38:39.370 --> 02:38:41.649
just one -two everybody. Yeah, I think what happened,

02:38:41.809 --> 02:38:43.510
there's another thing in this country. It's like

02:38:43.510 --> 02:38:46.530
people, I think, they're not following boxing.

02:38:46.629 --> 02:38:48.329
They're not getting into boxing. A lot of these

02:38:48.329 --> 02:38:51.610
guys are going for the money. They'll try to

02:38:51.610 --> 02:38:55.850
play football or whatever. Well, since Deontay,

02:38:55.870 --> 02:38:58.129
we haven't really had a heavyweight boxing champion

02:38:58.129 --> 02:39:01.280
in America. Deontay was our last. heavyweight

02:39:01.280 --> 02:39:04.319
boxing champion. Yeah. And talk about technique

02:39:04.319 --> 02:39:07.979
is. Not the best. But, you know, he had what

02:39:07.979 --> 02:39:10.299
Teddy Atlas likes to call the eraser. Right,

02:39:10.360 --> 02:39:12.159
yeah, true. He can make all the mistakes in the

02:39:12.159 --> 02:39:15.219
world. He had that one eraser, blam. Yeah, yeah.

02:39:15.799 --> 02:39:18.299
Deontay's was the craziest knockout puncher that's

02:39:18.299 --> 02:39:22.100
ever existed. Yeah. It was nuts. He hit you moving

02:39:22.100 --> 02:39:24.799
backwards and flatlined you. Yeah, but he weighed

02:39:24.799 --> 02:39:28.479
like 212. 209 when he fought Tyson Fury the first

02:39:28.479 --> 02:39:33.260
time. 209. Yeah, he and I went shooting before.

02:39:33.579 --> 02:39:36.370
Like, we've done some. tactical stuff together.

02:39:38.329 --> 02:39:41.030
Really nice guy. Yeah. I love talking to him

02:39:41.030 --> 02:39:45.590
on the podcast. Oh, yeah. He's great. I don't

02:39:45.590 --> 02:39:49.030
know. Just work on his technique, man. It's like,

02:39:49.110 --> 02:39:52.629
geez. Yeah, I don't know, man. It's too late.

02:39:52.809 --> 02:39:55.170
It's what you do for a living. I think he relied

02:39:55.170 --> 02:39:58.889
on that gift for so long. Because, I mean, look

02:39:58.889 --> 02:40:00.610
at the gift, though. I mean, at one point in

02:40:00.610 --> 02:40:05.030
time, he was like 39 knockouts out of 40 fights.

02:40:05.750 --> 02:40:10.850
Yeah. Yeah. It's like he's. I know. Nuts. But

02:40:10.850 --> 02:40:15.709
it didn't matter when it landed. When it landed,

02:40:15.709 --> 02:40:17.889
you couldn't do shit about all that sloppiness.

02:40:17.909 --> 02:40:21.590
I still wouldn't mind seeing AJ versus him. I

02:40:21.590 --> 02:40:22.729
still wouldn't mind that either. That would be

02:40:22.729 --> 02:40:24.809
interesting. I think after the car accident,

02:40:24.889 --> 02:40:28.510
AJ might be done, though, because he was knocked

02:40:28.510 --> 02:40:30.889
unconscious in that car accident. I heard really

02:40:30.889 --> 02:40:32.610
bad. I heard he was out for like 10 minutes.

02:40:32.950 --> 02:40:35.809
Really? Yeah, and his two friends died. You know,

02:40:35.829 --> 02:40:38.709
I mean, and after all his fights and, you know,

02:40:38.729 --> 02:40:42.610
that was the last thing he needed is some extracurricular

02:40:42.610 --> 02:40:45.250
brain damage like that. True, true. And then

02:40:45.250 --> 02:40:48.170
also losing his two great friends like that has

02:40:48.170 --> 02:40:51.469
got to be, you know, that's just fucking crazy.

02:40:51.969 --> 02:40:56.809
Yeah, that's a sad thing. But I think, you know,

02:40:56.829 --> 02:40:58.889
if he's my brother or my cousin, I'd be like,

02:40:58.889 --> 02:41:01.409
you got to go through this. You can't, you know,

02:41:01.489 --> 02:41:05.540
you got to, for their sake. Yeah. What would

02:41:05.540 --> 02:41:08.200
your friends want you to do? Well, we'll see.

02:41:08.459 --> 02:41:11.239
Yeah, yeah. I hope for the best. He's another

02:41:11.239 --> 02:41:14.459
one of our warriors, man. He puts his body and

02:41:14.459 --> 02:41:19.799
life on the line for us, man. That's our modern

02:41:19.799 --> 02:41:21.879
-day gladiator, you know? I know. There's nothing

02:41:21.879 --> 02:41:24.500
like a fight. It's different than any kind of

02:41:24.500 --> 02:41:27.200
sporting event. It's very different. And the

02:41:27.200 --> 02:41:29.479
losses are way different. They're way harder

02:41:29.479 --> 02:41:32.020
to deal with. And the victories are way greater.

02:41:32.200 --> 02:41:34.000
Yeah, you know, one of my best friends being

02:41:34.000 --> 02:41:36.280
Frankie, man. Like, so I got a front seat to

02:41:36.280 --> 02:41:39.000
all of that. You know, Frankie knocked out Roy

02:41:39.000 --> 02:41:42.239
Jones back in the amateurs. And, you know, I

02:41:42.239 --> 02:41:44.860
wanted to see him get his due. I mean, he was

02:41:44.860 --> 02:41:48.079
WBA super middleweight champ for five years straight.

02:41:48.620 --> 02:41:52.600
But, you know, it was a front seat to the boxing

02:41:52.600 --> 02:41:56.350
life and the fighting life. It's a hard world.

02:41:56.450 --> 02:41:59.409
Yeah, it is. It's a hard world. In the end, it's

02:41:59.409 --> 02:42:01.370
not pretty, and there's no one there for you.

02:42:01.690 --> 02:42:05.610
I was watching this piece on Bobby Chacon, who

02:42:05.610 --> 02:42:08.530
was a great fighter in the 80s. Oh, my God. In

02:42:08.530 --> 02:42:10.569
the end, it was horrible. It was just horrible

02:42:10.569 --> 02:42:13.670
watching just the deterioration and the brain

02:42:13.670 --> 02:42:17.489
damage and no one there for you. That's a lot

02:42:17.489 --> 02:42:22.719
of guys. Yeah, yeah. I mean, your brain. it doesn't

02:42:22.719 --> 02:42:26.360
regenerate. No, it only gets worse. Yeah. And

02:42:26.360 --> 02:42:29.200
if you're experiencing brain damage now, I mean,

02:42:29.219 --> 02:42:31.159
without treatment, there's some treatments now

02:42:31.159 --> 02:42:35.280
that they're able to use to help regenerate some

02:42:35.280 --> 02:42:38.959
neural tissue. Yeah. But there's a certain amount

02:42:38.959 --> 02:42:41.540
you never come back from. Yeah, yeah. I know

02:42:41.540 --> 02:42:46.340
my son, one of my sons is, I mean, he's been

02:42:46.340 --> 02:42:48.440
going through, what do they call it? This is

02:42:48.440 --> 02:42:51.940
like a stimulation thing. Mm -hmm. The magnetic

02:42:51.940 --> 02:42:56.079
stuff? Yeah. Man, I forget. But he's actually

02:42:56.079 --> 02:43:00.239
helped him out a great deal. I mean, he kind

02:43:00.239 --> 02:43:05.479
of went kind of an interesting route, like kind

02:43:05.479 --> 02:43:08.739
of experimented with some stuff before. But now

02:43:08.739 --> 02:43:11.760
he's kind of come back. He's turned him around.

02:43:12.340 --> 02:43:15.159
What happened? Yeah, he kind of was like getting

02:43:15.159 --> 02:43:19.180
high, kind of went that route for a minute. But

02:43:19.180 --> 02:43:23.510
it's... But he's gotten, I've just actually seen

02:43:23.510 --> 02:43:26.569
things turn around with this, I don't know why

02:43:26.569 --> 02:43:29.930
I can't remember, but it's this brain stimulation

02:43:29.930 --> 02:43:33.649
thing. And it kind of rewires you, you know?

02:43:34.709 --> 02:43:36.969
You know, I think I heard you talk about the...

02:43:36.969 --> 02:43:41.809
Ibogaine? You know, NED and those type of things.

02:43:42.190 --> 02:43:44.920
So, yeah, there's... There's things that are

02:43:44.920 --> 02:43:47.540
going— There are things that can help, but you've

02:43:47.540 --> 02:43:49.979
got to be very vigilant about it. Yeah, yeah.

02:43:50.360 --> 02:43:54.020
Yeah, so I've been connected to a lot of the

02:43:54.020 --> 02:43:59.739
anti -aging type of stuff. We're getting up there,

02:43:59.920 --> 02:44:02.479
brother. Yeah, it's fascinating. A good friend

02:44:02.479 --> 02:44:04.459
of mine, Bob Goldman, I don't know if you know

02:44:04.459 --> 02:44:07.540
who Dr. Bob Goldman is. No. Yeah, you should

02:44:07.540 --> 02:44:09.659
have him on your show. He's an interesting guy.

02:44:09.719 --> 02:44:12.239
He runs A4M. I don't know if you've ever heard

02:44:12.239 --> 02:44:14.360
of it. It's this conglomerate of— Doctors are

02:44:14.360 --> 02:44:17.739
all around the world that's dedicated to fixing

02:44:17.739 --> 02:44:21.559
causes of diseases, not just chasing around the

02:44:21.559 --> 02:44:27.840
symptoms and stuff. And so it's like very much

02:44:27.840 --> 02:44:30.760
in the face of the pharmaceutical companies,

02:44:30.819 --> 02:44:36.459
they are really dedicated to taking care of things

02:44:36.459 --> 02:44:40.020
from the source. And it's been going on for a

02:44:40.020 --> 02:44:43.340
while, man. They have like about six of these

02:44:43.340 --> 02:44:47.399
things a year. The biggest one is in Vegas. But

02:44:47.399 --> 02:44:52.639
like, look it up, A4M. Okay, check it out. Sylvester

02:44:52.639 --> 02:44:56.739
Stallone, Arnold Schwarzenegger, he's been dealing

02:44:56.739 --> 02:45:00.239
with them. I've actually tried to, I've hooked

02:45:00.239 --> 02:45:05.559
Nick Diaz up with him to help him. Because, you

02:45:05.559 --> 02:45:08.639
know, they're on the forefront of the new medicine

02:45:08.639 --> 02:45:13.379
type stuff. So, yeah, it's an interesting thing.

02:45:13.659 --> 02:45:18.479
A4M, they have a lot of doctors who will be giving

02:45:18.479 --> 02:45:21.760
lectures on all the most innovative stuff, and

02:45:21.760 --> 02:45:25.219
they have all the newest equipment that's just

02:45:25.219 --> 02:45:30.100
like the biggest kind of, I don't know, like

02:45:30.100 --> 02:45:35.959
rooms, huge rooms full of all the most. Collaborating.

02:45:36.059 --> 02:45:38.180
Yeah. It's a good time to be an older person.

02:45:38.280 --> 02:45:40.260
There's a lot of science behind it now. They

02:45:40.260 --> 02:45:43.940
have the belief that you should be living to

02:45:43.940 --> 02:45:46.719
100 but healthily. Yeah. They really believe

02:45:46.719 --> 02:45:50.399
that. If it's ever been possible, now's the time.

02:45:50.500 --> 02:45:55.559
Oh, yeah. I think so, too. My doctor, Dr. Alavizos,

02:45:55.700 --> 02:46:01.440
Dr. 63, he looks like a freaking superhero. That's

02:46:01.440 --> 02:46:04.420
awesome. 63 -year -old guys when we were kids

02:46:04.420 --> 02:46:07.180
were basically dead. Yeah. They were just old

02:46:07.180 --> 02:46:10.059
men, frail, feeble. Yeah, it's interesting, man.

02:46:10.159 --> 02:46:14.459
It's like, yeah, we're getting older. But knock

02:46:14.459 --> 02:46:17.000
wood, man, I've been very fortunate. I've been

02:46:17.000 --> 02:46:20.159
very lucky. Yeah, me too. This is a good time

02:46:20.159 --> 02:46:22.780
to be an older person. Yeah. Man, you look good,

02:46:22.879 --> 02:46:25.680
man. Thank you. You too. Yeah. I think I'm a

02:46:25.680 --> 02:46:27.100
little older than you, though. How old are you?

02:46:27.200 --> 02:46:31.139
Yeah. I'm 58. Oh, yeah, I'm a little older than

02:46:31.139 --> 02:46:33.120
you. Okay. Yeah. Well, you look great. Well,

02:46:33.159 --> 02:46:34.360
thank you. You look great then if you're older

02:46:34.360 --> 02:46:37.120
than me. I feel good. Yeah. I feel very good.

02:46:37.700 --> 02:46:40.680
Well, there's so much information now on how

02:46:40.680 --> 02:46:42.719
to maintain your body and how to maintain your

02:46:42.719 --> 02:46:46.360
health when you're older. Yeah, yeah. Well, hey,

02:46:46.379 --> 02:46:48.540
brother, it's been great. I'm glad we got together.

02:46:48.620 --> 02:46:50.780
It was a lot of fun. Me too, man. Again, man,

02:46:50.899 --> 02:46:53.379
I got to tell you, man, how proud I am of Joe

02:46:53.379 --> 02:46:56.860
from the gym. Is doing his thing, man, in a big

02:46:56.860 --> 02:46:59.379
way. I feel the same about you. Thank you. Well,

02:46:59.399 --> 02:47:01.059
thank you, man. This was a lot of fun. Yeah,

02:47:01.100 --> 02:47:02.219
man. Thanks for having me. We'll do it again

02:47:02.219 --> 02:47:03.860
sometime. Yeah, we got to. All right. For sure.

02:47:04.040 --> 02:47:05.579
All right. Bye, everybody.