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Welcome to this curated educational transcript of the Joe Rogan Experience. In this session, we provide a deep-dive examination of the critical perspectives and historical dialogues presented in Episode #1330. Our mission is to offer a high-fidelity, searchable research resource for students of cultural history, emerging technology, and global discourse. This transcript has been specifically optimized for academic reference, linguistic study, and archival preservation regarding Democratic Socialism, U.S. Economic Reform, and Healthcare Policy Analysis. And we're live. Hello, Bernie. How are you, Joe?

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Wonderful. Pleasure to meet you. Nice to meet

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you. It's exciting to have you here, man. And

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it's obviously an exciting time for you. You

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know, presidential campaign is up in full swing.

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Do you get frustrated by the time constraints

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of the debates? Absolutely. You shouldn't even

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call them a debate. What they are is a, you know,

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reality TV show. in which you have to come up

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with a soundbite and all that stuff. It is the

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meaning. It's the meaning to the candidates,

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and it's the meaning to the American people.

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You can't explain the complexity of health care

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in America in 45 seconds. Nobody can. But why

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is it still done that way? Let's pull this thing.

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You know, I think the DNC is in a difficult position.

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They have 20 -plus candidates, and they want

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to give everybody a fair shot, which is the right

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thing to do. And then if you're going to have

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10 candidates up on the stage, what do you do?

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But there are other ways that we've got to do

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it because the issues facing this country are

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so enormous and in some cases so complicated.

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Nobody in the world can honestly explain them

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in 45 seconds. And then what encourages people

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to do is to come up with soundbites or do absurd

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things. If I yelled and screamed on the show,

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I took my clothes off, we get a lot of publicity,

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right? But if you give a thoughtful answer to

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a complicated question, it's not so sexy for

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the media. Well, you don't even have a chance

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to give a thoughtful answer. Like Tulsi Gabbard

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went after Kamala Harris and then Kamala Harris

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had about 12 seconds to reply to it. It was so...

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It's ridiculous to have something that's such

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an important issue. Did you or did you not put

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all those people in jail for marijuana? Did you

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laugh about it? Did this happen? Did that happen?

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All these different things. Was evidence withheld?

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These are long conversations. But it takes us

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to another issue, and that as a nation, we do

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a pretty bad job in analyzing and discussing

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the serious issues facing our country. And I

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hold the media to some degree responsible for

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that. You know, other countries, what they do

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is they say, Joe, you want to run for president?

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I'll tell you what, with your party in the general

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election, we're going to give you a certain amount

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of time, hours, on television. And you use those

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hours any way you want. You want a 15 -minute

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discourse. You remember Ross Perot? And people

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used to laugh at Ross Perot because he used to

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get up there with a chart and all this stuff.

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And the media made fun of him. But in fact, he

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tried in his own way to explain his point of

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view. to the American people. And we need serious

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discussion on serious issues. Well, because he

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was so rich, he had the ability to buy airtime

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on network television, which is pretty unprecedented.

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He just bought a chunk of airtime and then pled

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his case. But you know what goes on in other

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countries? You don't have to buy that time. What

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the obligation is, if you are a network, you're

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going to make that time free and available. Do

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you think that that's something that could be

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viable in America? Could you convince CBS and

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NBC and ABC to go along with something like that?

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No, you couldn't convince them. You'd have to

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pass legislation to make that happen. But everyone's

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online today. I mean, the entire country is essentially

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getting email and Facebook and all that jazz.

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Why bother doing it in this particular medium

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that has an inherent time constraint? Well, you're

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right. I mean, the Internet has revolutionized.

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And in many ways, good ways, we use our social

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media, our email list, which is very large. Every

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day we're sending out stuff and other candidates

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are doing it the same way. But television still

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has a very important role to be playing. I'm

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sure it does. But I mean, the ability to discuss

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things in long form, like you can do online,

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like you can do right here, right now. You can't

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get that on television. Well, you could. I mean,

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if you had. They would have to interrupt you

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every 15 minutes or so. No, no, no, no. What

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I'm saying about is in what goes on in other

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countries. If I'm not mistaken, don't hold me

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to this. I think in the UK, you're a member of

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the Labour Party. You're a candidate. Here's

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30 minutes of time and you do with it as you

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want. You want to speak 30 minutes on health

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care, whatever it may be, you can do that. Really?

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Yeah. And they don't interrupt with commercials?

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No, no, no, no. That's the law that they have

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given. This is the candidate's opportunity to

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speak at length to the people of the country.

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What are the misconceptions of you? Because here's

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the – if you go to the knee -jerk conservative

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reaction, you talk to people who are not interested

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in anyone that wants to be a democratic socialist.

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They hear the name Bernie Sanders. The negative

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implications are that you are somehow or another

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going to take their money, right? Is that annoying

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to you? Yes, it is. Of course it is. And also

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that I'm Mr. Maduro. I'm a dictator. I love dictatorships

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and all that stuff. And the truth is, Joe, that

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if you look at the issues that I campaign on

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and what I believe on, they are really not terribly

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radical. They exist in many countries all over

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the world. For example, just we can start on

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health care if you'd like. Is the idea that health

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care is a human right, not a privilege, a radical

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idea? I don't think it is. It's not. And the

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truth is we are the only major country on earth.

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Many people don't know this. We're the only major

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country on earth not to guarantee health care

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to all people as a human right, and yet we end

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up spending almost twice as much per capita on

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health care. The function, and you can argue

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with me if you want, but the function of the

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current health care system is not to provide

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quality care at all. It is to make tens of billions

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of dollars in profit for the drug companies and

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the insurance companies. That's the function.

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If you go to Canada, and I live 50 miles away

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from the Canadian border, you have major heart

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surgery. You're in the hospital for a month.

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Do you know what the bill is when you get out?

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Zero. You got it. You got any doctor you want.

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You don't have to take out your wallet. And yet

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they guarantee health care to all of their people

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and they spend one half of what we spend. That's

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kind of what I want to do. And I don't think

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that that's terribly radical. We have a program

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now, which everybody knows. It's called Medicare.

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It was started by Lyndon Johnson back in 1965.

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It is a popular program. All that I want to do

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over a four -year period is to expand it. Today,

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eligibility at age 65, I want to take it down

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to 55, 45, 35, everybody over a four -year period.

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That's about it. And I want to expand benefits

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to include dental care, hearing aids, and eyeglasses

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as well. That's about it. Not too radical. That

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doesn't sound radical at all. Now, when you say

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that Canada spends less, obviously they have

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less people. You mean less per capita? Yes, half

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per capita. Exactly, per capita. And the quality

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of care is as good. Or better. Do they have problems?

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Yeah, they have problems. Everybody has problems.

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But overall, the health care experts will tell

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you the quality of care there is as good or better

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than it is in our country. So what's the hurdle?

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Okay, I'll tell you exactly what the hurdle is.

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The hurdle is exactly the same thing as in every

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other aspect of our lives. It's the power of

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money. All right, listen to this. Over the last

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20 years, the drug companies alone have spent

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four. and a half billion dollars in 20 years

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on lobbying and campaign contributions that's

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what we're up against the knowledge and i mark

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my words within a short period of time you will

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see tv ads california all over this country demonizing

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bernie sanders he wants to do this terrible thing

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to you he wants to do that they have unbelievable

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amounts of money and politicians are frightened

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of that power give you one example Back in 2016,

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I got involved here in a little way with an effort

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on the part of the nurses to control the cost

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of prescription drugs in California. You may

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recall that effort. I do. It was a ballot item

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in one state here in California. Do you know

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how much the drug companies alone spent to defeat

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that effort? They spent $131 million on one ballot

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item in one state. Last year, the top 10 drug

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companies made $69 billion. A week ago, I went

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to Canada with a number of Americans who are

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dealing with diabetes. We bought insulin in Windsor,

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Ontario for one -tenth the price, 10 % of the

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price. Same exact product being charged in America.

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So you've got drug companies that are engaged

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in collusion and in price fixing who are incredibly

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greedy. And the result is many elderly people,

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many working people simply cannot afford the

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medicine they need. It's unbelievable. And the

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reason for all of that stuff is we are the only

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country in the world that does not negotiate

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with the drug companies. They can charge you

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any price they want. And that has to do with

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the fact that we don't have a national health

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care program. Medicare is not negotiating, et

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cetera. Is this something that can really be

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implemented inside of four years? It seems like

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it's an enormous endeavor. Well, I want you to

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think back. Think back, Joe, in 1965. you had

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Lyndon Johnson as president. And by the way,

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this idea of national healthcare, this has been

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talked about literally since Teddy Roosevelt.

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This is not a new concept. Healthcare is a human

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right. That's what Teddy Roosevelt was talking

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about. That's what FDR was talking about. Harry

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Truman was talking about it. Kennedy was talking

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about it. Kennedy got killed. Lyndon Johnson

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picked up the mantle. And their idea was, according

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to people in their administration, we'll start

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with the elderly who are most impacted by...

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by healthcare costs and sickness, will start.

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And they did. In 1965, without the technology

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we have today, they implemented Medicare. 19

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million people, elderly people, signed up in

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the first year. So if you could start a brand

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new program and have 19 million people sign up

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with a technology that is way, way behind where

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we are today, why can't we, over a four -year

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period, simply expand that program? I don't think

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it's such a difficult operation. So when you

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talk about the drug companies and the lobbyists

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and the enormous amount of money that they spend,

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does this exist anywhere else other than the

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United States, lobbyists on that level? No, no,

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of course not. And the reason, you know, in Canada

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what you have is you have a national health care

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program and so forth. And they sit down and,

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A, they negotiate with the drug companies. They

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have their own approach. But every other major

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country on earth says to the drug companies,

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of course you can't charge us any price you want.

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This is a reasonable price. Tell me what your

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profits are, what your expenditures are. This

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is a price. For us, you can walk in, you know,

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if you have an illness, you can walk into the

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pharmacy tomorrow and the price has been doubled.

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And you say to the pharmacist, what happened?

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He said, they just raised their prices. They

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could do it any day they want, any price they

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want. Now, lobbyists are, in general, when people

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talk about lobbyists, it's an unattractive term.

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We think of it in terms of a negative. We don't

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think of, oh, thank God there's lobbyists. We

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think, wow, there's someone with enormous amounts

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of money using that money to gain influence on

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politicians, and it shapes regular people. It

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shapes our lives mostly in a negative way. This

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is the way most people look at it. I'm not saying

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it's correct. Why do we have that system in place?

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Why do we have lobbyists? Why is it legal for

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someone to spend exorbitant amounts of money

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to affect? our civilization, to affect the way

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our culture works. Now you're taking us into

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a whole new area. Yeah. All right. Let's look.

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Let me detour and I'll come back. Please do.

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Today in America, you've got three people owning

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more wealth than the bottom half of the American

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society. You don't see that on television too

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much, do you? No, you don't. Three people. You've

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got the top 1 % owning more wealth than the bottom

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92%. Listen to this. This is a statistic we recently

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saw. It came from the Federal Reserve. Over the

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last 30 years, the top 1 % has seen a $21 trillion

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increase in their wealth. The bottom half of

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America has seen a $900 billion decline in their

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wealth. So what you have in America today is

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a relatively small number of incredibly wealthy

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people. And I deal with these guys every day.

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People say, oh, we're talking about rich. You

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don't know what rich is, what multi -billion

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dollar operations are. Incredible. power over

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our society. And if you are the pharmaceutical

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industry, and last year, 10 companies made $69

00:12:22.129 --> 00:12:25.389
billion in profit, you're sitting around right

00:12:25.389 --> 00:12:27.129
now saying, all right, that's great. How do we

00:12:27.129 --> 00:12:29.330
do better next year? What strategy do we have?

00:12:29.370 --> 00:12:31.470
We're going to put a lot of ads on. We're going

00:12:31.470 --> 00:12:33.090
to work with other companies. During the CNN

00:12:33.090 --> 00:12:35.870
debate that I participated in recently, in the

00:12:35.870 --> 00:12:38.690
debate, right in the middle of the debate, the

00:12:38.690 --> 00:12:40.370
drug companies and the insurance companies had

00:12:40.370 --> 00:12:43.250
an ad telling how bad so -called, how bad Medicare

00:12:43.250 --> 00:12:47.049
for all would be. So they're smart guys, and

00:12:47.049 --> 00:12:49.370
they use their power over politicians. They use

00:12:49.370 --> 00:12:51.389
their power over the media. They spend billions

00:12:51.389 --> 00:12:54.330
of dollars on advertising, on media, to make

00:12:54.330 --> 00:12:56.649
sure that they make as much as they can in profit.

00:12:56.710 --> 00:12:58.330
But it's not any different with Wall Street.

00:12:58.490 --> 00:13:00.929
It's not any different with the fossil fuel industry

00:13:00.929 --> 00:13:04.090
or the prison industrial complex. These guys

00:13:04.090 --> 00:13:06.509
have wealth, they have power, and they could

00:13:06.509 --> 00:13:08.889
care less about the needs of working people in

00:13:08.889 --> 00:13:11.350
this country. And that's the dynamic of American

00:13:11.350 --> 00:13:14.159
politics right now. And in our campaign, look,

00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:16.120
we're taking them all on. And I know it makes

00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:19.200
a lot of people uncomfortable. But we are taking

00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:22.539
on all of these entities and all of their wealth

00:13:22.539 --> 00:13:24.480
and all of their power. And that's what a political

00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:28.620
revolution is about. So the real problem seems

00:13:28.620 --> 00:13:30.620
to be that they have this strategy of unlimited

00:13:30.620 --> 00:13:33.039
growth, not that they're not providing medication

00:13:33.039 --> 00:13:35.299
that people need to save their lives. I mean,

00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:38.200
it's obviously. It's important to have pharmaceutical

00:13:38.200 --> 00:13:40.480
companies. Of course, of course. Right. So there's

00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:43.240
good that they provide, but the business aspect

00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:45.039
of it is where the problem lies, right? Right.

00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:47.460
Look, they have great researchers, but if you

00:13:47.460 --> 00:13:50.600
check how they even spend their money, you know,

00:13:50.620 --> 00:13:52.419
they will tell you this. All of their money on

00:13:52.419 --> 00:13:54.600
research and development. We're tackling cancer.

00:13:54.700 --> 00:13:57.279
We're tackling diabetes, Alzheimer's. The truth

00:13:57.279 --> 00:13:59.419
is, of course, they are. But the bulk of their

00:13:59.419 --> 00:14:02.299
money. is going off into what we call me -too

00:14:02.299 --> 00:14:04.659
drugs. They make modest changes in a drug, which

00:14:04.659 --> 00:14:07.379
really doesn't improve people's well -being in

00:14:07.379 --> 00:14:09.620
order to make profits. So the answer is yes,

00:14:09.740 --> 00:14:12.360
we need obviously vigorous research and development.

00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:15.039
And by the way, your tax dollars, all of our

00:14:15.039 --> 00:14:18.039
tax dollars often goes to that research, and

00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:20.159
we don't get the benefit of it in terms of lower

00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:23.690
prices. So it's just – it's a business model

00:14:23.690 --> 00:14:25.929
issue. Exactly. It's a greed issue. You've got

00:14:25.929 --> 00:14:29.210
it. And how would one stop that? When you're

00:14:29.210 --> 00:14:31.350
dealing with this – the kind of influence that

00:14:31.350 --> 00:14:34.210
you're talking about with $69 billion in a year,

00:14:34.330 --> 00:14:37.230
I mean the resources they have, how would you

00:14:37.230 --> 00:14:40.649
stop that? Well, that is kind of what we call

00:14:40.649 --> 00:14:44.789
the $64 question. And I'll tell you what I think.

00:14:44.850 --> 00:14:50.649
This is what I believe. on American history.

00:14:51.509 --> 00:14:55.289
And you think about the real changes that have

00:14:55.289 --> 00:14:58.230
taken place in society. You think about the labor

00:14:58.230 --> 00:15:00.950
movement and working class people standing up

00:15:00.950 --> 00:15:02.830
and saying to their employers, we're not going

00:15:02.830 --> 00:15:04.830
to be treated like animals anymore. You can't

00:15:04.830 --> 00:15:07.250
hire and fire us. You can't work us, you know,

00:15:07.250 --> 00:15:10.769
15 hours a day. We deserve dignity. And you think

00:15:10.769 --> 00:15:12.850
about the growth of the labor movement, millions

00:15:12.850 --> 00:15:15.250
of people beginning to stand together and fight.

00:15:15.370 --> 00:15:17.350
You think about the civil rights movement, you

00:15:17.350 --> 00:15:19.950
know. And it wasn't just Dr. Martin Luther King

00:15:19.950 --> 00:15:22.090
Jr. It was, again, millions of African Americans

00:15:22.090 --> 00:15:24.149
and their white allies saying, we're going to

00:15:24.149 --> 00:15:26.429
end segregation and racism in this country. Think

00:15:26.429 --> 00:15:29.090
about the women's movement. A hundred years ago,

00:15:29.110 --> 00:15:30.870
women in America didn't even have the right to

00:15:30.870 --> 00:15:33.090
vote. Think about the gay rights movement. Think

00:15:33.090 --> 00:15:35.629
about the environmental. The only way that change

00:15:35.629 --> 00:15:39.289
takes place is when ordinary people come together

00:15:39.289 --> 00:15:41.690
and stand up and fight and say that the status

00:15:41.690 --> 00:15:45.259
quo is not working. And that's what I believe,

00:15:45.379 --> 00:15:47.820
and that's what we're trying to do. So the message

00:15:47.820 --> 00:15:52.000
of our campaign is it's us, not me, because I

00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:53.960
can't do it alone. Let me be very honest with

00:15:53.960 --> 00:15:56.100
you. If I were elected president tomorrow, I

00:15:56.100 --> 00:15:58.860
can't do the things that I would like to do,

00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:01.620
that I'm campaigning on, unless millions of people

00:16:01.620 --> 00:16:04.440
were working with me to tell the corporate elite

00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:08.240
that they cannot get it all. So how would that

00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:10.039
be implemented? Let's say you become president.

00:16:10.279 --> 00:16:11.759
You're going to become president? What do you

00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:13.159
think? I think we got a shot at it. Got a shot.

00:16:13.299 --> 00:16:15.789
All right. President Bernie, what do you do?

00:16:15.870 --> 00:16:18.169
You get in there, what do you do? Okay, first

00:16:18.169 --> 00:16:22.730
of all, you make it clear to the American people

00:16:22.730 --> 00:16:25.330
what your agenda is. And I appreciate the opportunity

00:16:25.330 --> 00:16:29.809
to talk about an agenda in more than 12 seconds.

00:16:30.129 --> 00:16:31.970
What does that mean? We're going to fight for

00:16:31.970 --> 00:16:34.110
Medicare for all. We're going to raise the minimum

00:16:34.110 --> 00:16:38.480
wage to a living wage. We are going to deal with

00:16:38.480 --> 00:16:42.100
education in a profound way because I worry about

00:16:42.100 --> 00:16:44.799
what's going on in education today. Everybody

00:16:44.799 --> 00:16:49.039
knows that the ages of zero through four are

00:16:49.039 --> 00:16:51.820
the most important years for human intellectual

00:16:51.820 --> 00:16:54.740
and emotional development, right? Every psychologist

00:16:54.740 --> 00:16:56.899
will tell you that. And yet we have a totally

00:16:56.899 --> 00:17:00.320
dysfunctional early childhood system. We pay

00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:04.559
our childcare workers. starvation wages, yet

00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:06.920
working class families cannot find affordable

00:17:06.920 --> 00:17:09.859
quality childcare. You got our public school

00:17:09.859 --> 00:17:13.660
systems all around this country, and many of

00:17:13.660 --> 00:17:16.200
them really being challenged right now. Teachers

00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:18.079
are underpaid. Teachers are working two or three

00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:20.359
jobs. You got kids who can't afford to go to

00:17:20.359 --> 00:17:22.819
college. And here's something that is just unbelievable.

00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:26.599
Kids who have gone to college leaving school

00:17:26.599 --> 00:17:30.180
with $50 ,000, $100 ,000 in debt. Unbelievable.

00:17:30.970 --> 00:17:32.710
These are issues that we have to deal with, and

00:17:32.710 --> 00:17:36.549
I will deal with them. And we are going to substantially

00:17:36.549 --> 00:17:39.190
improve the quality of education in America.

00:17:39.250 --> 00:17:41.410
We're going to cancel student debt by imposing

00:17:41.410 --> 00:17:44.329
a tax on Wall Street speculation. So you've got

00:17:44.329 --> 00:17:46.069
to deal with education. You've got to deal with

00:17:46.069 --> 00:17:49.549
climate change. The truth is that Donald Trump

00:17:49.549 --> 00:17:53.049
is dead wrong. Climate change is not a hoax.

00:17:53.210 --> 00:17:55.809
It is a very, very dangerous reality for our

00:17:55.809 --> 00:17:58.089
country and the rest of the world. Scientists

00:17:58.089 --> 00:18:00.839
tell us we have less than 12 years. to transform

00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:03.319
our energy system away from fossil fuel, or there

00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:07.420
will be irreparable damage. So those are, and

00:18:07.420 --> 00:18:08.980
health care, of course, for all. So those are

00:18:08.980 --> 00:18:11.119
some of the major issues, criminal justice, immigration

00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:13.740
reform. You lay it on the table. You say, these

00:18:13.740 --> 00:18:15.720
are the issues that we are going to focus on.

00:18:16.420 --> 00:18:20.079
And you rally the American people around those

00:18:20.079 --> 00:18:22.079
issues. And you tell people like Mitch McConnell,

00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:24.960
who represents a very poor state in Kentucky,

00:18:25.180 --> 00:18:28.680
that Mitch... If you are going to oppose raising

00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:31.079
that minimum wage to at least 15 bucks an hour,

00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:34.160
I will be in Kentucky as president of the United

00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:36.799
States. And we're going to have a rally because

00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:38.700
you're going to have to stop representing. And

00:18:38.700 --> 00:18:40.440
I hope, by the way, that Mitch McConnell is not

00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:43.339
the leader. I hope the Democrats can gain control

00:18:43.339 --> 00:18:45.579
over the Senate. But if he is, we'll put enormous

00:18:45.579 --> 00:18:48.539
pressure on him to do what the people want. Every

00:18:48.539 --> 00:18:50.380
idea, Joe, here's the bottom line on this thing.

00:18:50.579 --> 00:18:52.339
Every idea that I've just talked to you about

00:18:52.339 --> 00:18:54.579
is supported by a majority of the American people.

00:18:54.740 --> 00:18:58.430
These are not. Radical ideas. Let's take these

00:18:58.430 --> 00:18:59.910
one step at a time because you mentioned a lot

00:18:59.910 --> 00:19:01.470
of important things there. Let's go with the

00:19:01.470 --> 00:19:03.410
minimum wage thing. Now, the argument that I've

00:19:03.410 --> 00:19:05.309
heard about the minimum wage being raised to

00:19:05.309 --> 00:19:07.890
$15 an hour is that there are entry -level positions

00:19:07.890 --> 00:19:09.829
for high school kids, for people that are just

00:19:09.829 --> 00:19:11.730
– getting their feet wet in the marketplace,

00:19:12.069 --> 00:19:13.650
they're learning how to work, they're making

00:19:13.650 --> 00:19:18.490
some money after school, that if you charge or

00:19:18.490 --> 00:19:22.250
if businesses have to pay $15 an hour to people

00:19:22.250 --> 00:19:25.170
like that, to entry -level people, that they

00:19:25.170 --> 00:19:28.029
won't be able to stay open? Well, first of all,

00:19:28.150 --> 00:19:30.829
they will be competing against, you know, if

00:19:30.829 --> 00:19:32.349
you're a business and I'm a business and both

00:19:32.349 --> 00:19:35.269
of us have to raise our wages at the same level,

00:19:35.369 --> 00:19:38.769
we both have the same burden, so it's spread

00:19:38.769 --> 00:19:42.930
across. That is what my conservative colleagues

00:19:42.930 --> 00:19:45.130
will tell you. The truth is, I don't have the

00:19:45.130 --> 00:19:47.250
numbers right in front of me, that while it certainly

00:19:47.250 --> 00:19:50.470
is true that young people do work at McDonald's

00:19:50.470 --> 00:19:53.849
and the minimum wage jobs, a significant and

00:19:53.849 --> 00:19:56.349
majority of the workers are not kids. They are

00:19:56.349 --> 00:19:59.490
often, and I've met them at McDonald's, they

00:19:59.490 --> 00:20:04.529
are workers who have children themselves. When

00:20:04.529 --> 00:20:07.130
we work very hard to raise the minimum wage at

00:20:07.130 --> 00:20:10.480
Amazon and at Disney, We put pressure on both

00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:11.980
of those companies and they did the right thing.

00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:14.500
And when you talk to the people at Amazon who

00:20:14.500 --> 00:20:17.700
got that raise, these are not kids. These are

00:20:17.700 --> 00:20:21.359
people in their 30s. These are ordinary adults

00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:24.420
who cannot make it on 12 or 13 bucks an hour.

00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:26.759
So I think the argument that, oh, they're old

00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:30.380
kids is not really quite accurate. Well, not

00:20:30.380 --> 00:20:33.099
even that they're all kids, but that if they

00:20:33.099 --> 00:20:35.240
are kids, what would you think about making a

00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:38.059
minimum wage for someone who's under 18 that's

00:20:38.059 --> 00:20:40.000
different from a minimum wage for someone who's

00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:43.299
a legal adult? I'm not for that. I think we do

00:20:43.299 --> 00:20:46.819
it. And look, many of these young people have

00:20:46.819 --> 00:20:49.119
their own needs. I just talked to a young woman

00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:53.619
last night who is working, going to college,

00:20:53.700 --> 00:20:55.279
working full -time, trying to take care of her

00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:58.390
family as well. Look, the minimum wage has not

00:20:58.390 --> 00:21:01.289
been raised in 10 years. It is now $7 .25 an

00:21:01.289 --> 00:21:05.450
hour, which is clearly unacceptable. The cost

00:21:05.450 --> 00:21:07.730
of housing in California, all over this country,

00:21:07.829 --> 00:21:10.349
is rising fairly rapidly. People can't afford

00:21:10.349 --> 00:21:14.589
health care, can't afford college. I don't think

00:21:14.589 --> 00:21:17.450
it's asking our employers too much to pay at

00:21:17.450 --> 00:21:20.390
least $15 an hour minimum wage. Now, I'm glad

00:21:20.390 --> 00:21:22.650
you brought up Amazon. One of the things that

00:21:22.650 --> 00:21:24.630
always freaks me out is when I find out that

00:21:24.859 --> 00:21:27.200
enormous corporations that make billions of dollars

00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:29.339
have tax loopholes where they literally pay no

00:21:29.339 --> 00:21:32.380
money. How is that possible, and how do you stop

00:21:32.380 --> 00:21:34.759
that? Well, it's the same thing as the drug companies.

00:21:34.839 --> 00:21:36.960
How is it possible that we pay 10 times more

00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:40.160
for insulin in this country and for other drugs

00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:43.160
than the one in Canada or countries around the

00:21:43.160 --> 00:21:47.819
world? And the answer is, it's power. So what

00:21:47.819 --> 00:21:52.119
is the goal of major corporations in America?

00:21:52.579 --> 00:21:55.920
It's to be deregulated. as much as possible.

00:21:56.059 --> 00:21:58.579
So in some cases, they can pollute our water,

00:21:58.619 --> 00:22:01.440
our air, our environment. It's also not to pay

00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:05.579
any taxes. Trump campaign, as you'll recall,

00:22:05.640 --> 00:22:08.640
he said, my tax plan is not going to benefit

00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:11.420
the wealthy. It's going to benefit working people.

00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:14.299
Well, it turns out over 10 years, 83 % of the

00:22:14.299 --> 00:22:16.200
benefit at the end of 10 years goes to the top

00:22:16.200 --> 00:22:19.900
1%. That's what these guys do. I remember, I'm

00:22:19.900 --> 00:22:22.140
called the ranking member on the budget committee

00:22:22.140 --> 00:22:26.109
in the Senate. And some guy came forward representing,

00:22:26.349 --> 00:22:28.509
I don't know, one of the big business organizations.

00:22:29.890 --> 00:22:32.950
And this is their agenda. Their agenda was to

00:22:32.950 --> 00:22:35.690
cut Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid and

00:22:35.690 --> 00:22:38.630
to do away with all corporate taxes. So what

00:22:38.630 --> 00:22:41.470
you have right now, that's what greed is about.

00:22:41.529 --> 00:22:44.250
They want it all. So as you indicated, you have

00:22:44.250 --> 00:22:47.150
a company like Amazon owned by Jeff Bezos who

00:22:47.150 --> 00:22:49.730
happens to be the wealthiest guy in America worth

00:22:49.730 --> 00:22:53.529
about $150 billion. Amazon paid zero in federal

00:22:53.529 --> 00:22:55.829
income taxes. And it's not just them. Dozens

00:22:55.829 --> 00:22:58.529
of corporations paid nothing or very, very little.

00:22:58.630 --> 00:23:01.250
And on top of all of that, you got these guys

00:23:01.250 --> 00:23:05.869
able to stash all over the world trillions of

00:23:05.869 --> 00:23:09.230
dollars, trillions of dollars in the Cayman Islands,

00:23:09.430 --> 00:23:13.089
in Bermuda, in Luxembourg, and other tax havens.

00:23:13.089 --> 00:23:16.809
That is insane. And that has got to end. Yeah.

00:23:17.009 --> 00:23:19.529
How is it legal to do that? Why is it legal?

00:23:20.190 --> 00:23:22.930
Joe, it is legal because they make the laws.

00:23:23.130 --> 00:23:28.230
All right? You know, that is what you're touching

00:23:28.230 --> 00:23:30.650
now on the heart and soul of the tragedy of American

00:23:30.650 --> 00:23:35.450
politics. How does it happen that on issue after

00:23:35.450 --> 00:23:37.690
issue, the American people, the working class

00:23:37.690 --> 00:23:40.150
of this country, want something, nobody pays

00:23:40.150 --> 00:23:42.890
any attention to it, but billionaires want something,

00:23:42.970 --> 00:23:45.990
and it gets done? And that has to do with a corrupt

00:23:45.990 --> 00:23:51.369
political system. So right now, If you are the

00:23:51.369 --> 00:23:54.410
Koch brothers or some multi -billionaire, you

00:23:54.410 --> 00:23:56.390
say to the leadership of the Republican Party

00:23:56.390 --> 00:23:58.710
and in some cases to the Democratic Party, hey,

00:23:58.730 --> 00:24:00.430
guess what? We're prepared to put hundreds of

00:24:00.430 --> 00:24:03.109
millions of dollars in the UK. Hundreds of millions

00:24:03.109 --> 00:24:06.250
of dollars coming from one or two people. And

00:24:06.250 --> 00:24:08.990
here is my agenda. I want tax breaks. I want

00:24:08.990 --> 00:24:12.049
a trade system which will enable me to shut down

00:24:12.049 --> 00:24:14.029
in this country and go to China or Mexico and

00:24:14.029 --> 00:24:16.710
pay people there two bucks an hour. I want to

00:24:16.710 --> 00:24:19.009
be able to do more pollution because I don't

00:24:19.009 --> 00:24:21.930
like all of this money I have to spend preventing

00:24:21.930 --> 00:24:24.609
pollution of the air or the water. That's what

00:24:24.609 --> 00:24:26.410
I want you to do. And by the way, I'm worried

00:24:26.410 --> 00:24:28.809
about the deficit. So you may as well cut Social

00:24:28.809 --> 00:24:31.829
Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. How many Americans

00:24:31.829 --> 00:24:35.329
actually believe that we should give tax breaks

00:24:35.329 --> 00:24:37.150
to billionaires and cut Social Security, Medicare,

00:24:37.269 --> 00:24:40.690
and Medicaid? Very few. Talk to Mitch McConnell.

00:24:40.849 --> 00:24:42.950
Get Mitch on the show. That is exactly what he

00:24:42.950 --> 00:24:46.400
believes. But that's ridiculous, right? It seems

00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:49.539
that if you just took away those tax breaks,

00:24:49.720 --> 00:24:52.299
the enormous amount of money that would come

00:24:52.299 --> 00:24:55.000
from those corporations having to pay their fair

00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:57.759
share would take care of a lot of the expenses

00:24:57.759 --> 00:25:00.180
of all these things that you're proposing. Exactly.

00:25:01.099 --> 00:25:03.920
Okay, let's talk about the education, because

00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:07.400
the idea of free education is a wonderful thing

00:25:07.400 --> 00:25:11.240
for people. I mean, the idea that you get out

00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:14.720
of college and you're in debt in an insane amount.

00:25:15.259 --> 00:25:18.180
that you might have 10, 20 years where you have

00:25:18.180 --> 00:25:20.059
to pay it back. And I know many people that are

00:25:20.059 --> 00:25:21.740
in that situation. Joe, there are people who

00:25:21.740 --> 00:25:24.299
are getting their Social Security checks garnished

00:25:24.299 --> 00:25:27.579
right now. It's not 10 or 20 years. In some cases,

00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:31.019
it's literally a lifetime. Now, a lot of that

00:25:31.019 --> 00:25:35.420
is, I mean, it's got to, in some way, be preventable

00:25:35.420 --> 00:25:37.200
by what we're talking about here. Absolutely.

00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:40.359
Is that how you would pay for it? I'll tell you

00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:42.619
exactly how we would pay for it. And we pay for

00:25:42.619 --> 00:25:45.420
every idea that we have, we pay for it. And we

00:25:45.420 --> 00:25:47.759
pay for it by understanding that today we have

00:25:47.759 --> 00:25:49.619
massive levels of income and wealth inequality.

00:25:50.539 --> 00:25:53.039
And we have in many cases the wealthy and large

00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:55.220
corporations paying nothing or very little in

00:25:55.220 --> 00:25:58.099
taxes. Here is the issue in terms of education.

00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:02.220
40, 50 years ago, you were an average American

00:26:02.220 --> 00:26:05.059
working class person. You graduated high school.

00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:08.420
Especially if there was a union around, you can

00:26:08.420 --> 00:26:10.039
go out and get a job and make it into the middle

00:26:10.039 --> 00:26:12.220
class. You could own your own home. You could

00:26:12.220 --> 00:26:14.079
send your kids to school. You lived a pretty

00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:17.700
good life. You made it in the middle class. Forty

00:26:17.700 --> 00:26:19.819
or fifty years later, there's an explosion of

00:26:19.819 --> 00:26:22.259
technology. There's a growth in unfettered free

00:26:22.259 --> 00:26:27.359
trade. And it is clear now that most people,

00:26:27.400 --> 00:26:29.640
to make it into the middle class, are going to

00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:31.579
need a higher education. That's college or maybe

00:26:31.579 --> 00:26:35.299
it's technical training in order to become a

00:26:35.299 --> 00:26:43.019
skilled worker. It is insane to me to deny working

00:26:43.019 --> 00:26:45.299
class people and lower income people the opportunity

00:26:45.299 --> 00:26:47.640
to get that education because the cost of college

00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:52.059
has soared. So all that I say is that 100 plus

00:26:52.059 --> 00:26:55.000
years ago, the American people said that we should

00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:57.220
have free public education. I went to a public

00:26:57.220 --> 00:26:59.400
school. My parents didn't pay a nickel. Went

00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:01.039
to kindergarten. I went through the 12th grade.

00:27:01.079 --> 00:27:03.099
Pretty good education in Brooklyn, New York.

00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:05.819
All that I'm saying is the world has changed.

00:27:06.359 --> 00:27:08.960
And a high school degree is not good enough anymore.

00:27:09.339 --> 00:27:12.460
So expand that concept through college. Now,

00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:16.160
guess what? Fifty years ago, do you know how

00:27:16.160 --> 00:27:17.980
much the University of California, a very great

00:27:17.980 --> 00:27:20.720
university, cost in terms of tuition? How much?

00:27:20.839 --> 00:27:24.039
Virtually free. What's it now? I don't know,

00:27:24.059 --> 00:27:26.160
but it's pretty high. It is high. It's thousands

00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:28.740
and thousands of dollars. So you had great universities

00:27:28.740 --> 00:27:31.599
like the University of California, City University

00:27:31.599 --> 00:27:33.900
of New York, state colleges all over this country.

00:27:34.359 --> 00:27:37.079
where tuition was virtually free. And then what

00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:39.859
happened, for a variety of political reasons,

00:27:40.220 --> 00:27:42.640
states and the federal government started cutting

00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:45.579
back on higher education and put more and more

00:27:45.579 --> 00:27:47.240
burden on the student with higher and higher

00:27:47.240 --> 00:27:49.720
tuition, which is where we are today. So all

00:27:49.720 --> 00:27:53.859
that I'm saying is in the year 2019, 2020, if

00:27:53.859 --> 00:27:56.500
our working class kids are going to go out and

00:27:56.500 --> 00:27:59.539
get the jobs that are out there, they need a...

00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:02.319
They need a higher education, which should be

00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:05.759
tuition -free, in terms of the cancellation of

00:28:05.759 --> 00:28:08.680
debt, which is my view. You've got 45 million

00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:12.160
people who are dealing with debt. I'll never

00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:13.799
forget this. This is where it really hit me.

00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:16.059
I was in Burlington, Vermont, and I had a meeting

00:28:16.059 --> 00:28:18.059
on an issue. And a young woman comes up, and

00:28:18.059 --> 00:28:20.759
she says, she's a doctor. She graduated medical

00:28:20.759 --> 00:28:23.279
school. She's very happy. She's practicing in

00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:25.440
a community health center, loves what she's doing.

00:28:25.500 --> 00:28:26.400
She said, Bernie, I've got to tell you, though,

00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:30.710
I am $300 ,000 in debt. having gone to medical

00:28:30.710 --> 00:28:33.450
school. I couldn't believe it. I was in Iowa,

00:28:33.589 --> 00:28:36.910
a young woman, $400 ,000 in debt. This is not

00:28:36.910 --> 00:28:39.430
unusual for medical schools and dental schools.

00:28:39.930 --> 00:28:42.549
And, you know, ordinary people, $50 ,000, $100

00:28:42.549 --> 00:28:44.789
,000 for going to college or getting a master's

00:28:44.789 --> 00:28:48.269
degree. We promised these young people, we said,

00:28:48.349 --> 00:28:50.390
go to college, go out and get an education, you'll

00:28:50.390 --> 00:28:52.730
get decent paying jobs. Well, the answer is they

00:28:52.730 --> 00:28:54.630
have not been able to do that. So what we have

00:28:54.630 --> 00:28:57.069
proposed in one piece of legislation or two,

00:28:57.130 --> 00:29:00.269
actually. is to make public colleges and universities

00:29:00.269 --> 00:29:02.690
tuition -free, cancel all student debt in this

00:29:02.690 --> 00:29:05.470
country. That will cost $2 .2 trillion, a lot

00:29:05.470 --> 00:29:08.390
of money, over a 10 -year period. We do this

00:29:08.390 --> 00:29:12.250
through a tax on Wall Street speculation, which

00:29:12.250 --> 00:29:15.589
will bring in $2 .4 trillion. We bailed out Wall

00:29:15.589 --> 00:29:18.069
Street 11 years ago. And by the way, these are

00:29:18.069 --> 00:29:20.670
crooks on Wall Street who engaged in illegal

00:29:20.670 --> 00:29:23.690
behavior, taxpayers against my vote, bailed them

00:29:23.690 --> 00:29:25.799
out. If we can bail out Wall Street, you know

00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:27.720
what? We can cancel student debt and provide

00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:30.019
public colleges and universities tuition -free.

00:29:30.279 --> 00:29:32.880
When you say a tax on Wall Street speculation,

00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:35.079
what exactly do you mean by that? It will be

00:29:35.079 --> 00:29:40.420
a tax on every sale of a tax. People buy and

00:29:40.420 --> 00:29:43.059
sell. We have stocks and bonds all of the time.

00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:45.259
We have a very modest tax on that. And by the

00:29:45.259 --> 00:29:48.160
way, it will have an impact on speculation by

00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:50.039
cutting back on the high -frequency trading,

00:29:50.140 --> 00:29:52.380
which we now see. So you would just – there's

00:29:52.380 --> 00:29:54.940
no current tax on this? Correct. So you would

00:29:54.940 --> 00:29:58.259
put a small amount, and that would do the job?

00:29:58.359 --> 00:29:59.880
That would finance? That would raise more than

00:29:59.880 --> 00:30:02.839
enough money. It's a very small tax. When you

00:30:02.839 --> 00:30:05.259
say small, how much? It depends on the nature

00:30:05.259 --> 00:30:06.980
of the transaction, but it's less than one -half

00:30:06.980 --> 00:30:10.789
of 1%. Really? Yeah. Yeah, because the amount

00:30:10.789 --> 00:30:13.369
of stocks being sold. And this is not, again,

00:30:13.430 --> 00:30:16.089
a new idea. It's being done in countries all

00:30:16.089 --> 00:30:20.009
over the world. Here's one of the darkest things

00:30:20.009 --> 00:30:22.910
about student loans is that if you go bankrupt,

00:30:23.230 --> 00:30:26.309
it doesn't matter. You still owe that. And that's

00:30:26.309 --> 00:30:28.210
kind of crazy. I mean, if you have a serious

00:30:28.210 --> 00:30:32.109
medical issue, if you're held up, whatever happens

00:30:32.109 --> 00:30:35.029
to you that's awful, you go bankrupt, most of

00:30:35.029 --> 00:30:37.690
those things are resolved, but not student loans.

00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:42.619
I mean, again, this talks to the – and that has

00:30:42.619 --> 00:30:45.559
to do with bankruptcy law, which was passed against

00:30:45.559 --> 00:30:48.920
my vote. And while you're on bankruptcy – and

00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:50.460
I should have mentioned this before. When you

00:30:50.460 --> 00:30:53.539
talk about the healthcare system, a half a million

00:30:53.539 --> 00:30:56.380
Americans every single year go bankrupt because

00:30:56.380 --> 00:30:59.380
of medical bills that they can't pay. But you're

00:30:59.380 --> 00:31:01.480
right. I talked to this guy in Nevada. I'll never

00:31:01.480 --> 00:31:04.500
forget it. The guy says, Bernie, you know, I'm

00:31:04.500 --> 00:31:07.519
over my – the guy's in his 50s. And he said,

00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:09.420
you know, I've been paying off my student debt

00:31:09.420 --> 00:31:11.319
for years. I'm going nowhere because the interest

00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:14.500
rates are high. And I fear very much, which is

00:31:14.500 --> 00:31:16.539
the case, that they will start garnishing, taking

00:31:16.539 --> 00:31:19.039
away my Social Security checks, taking money

00:31:19.039 --> 00:31:22.059
away from me. So people are carrying this burden.

00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:26.819
The result is that they can't, in many cases,

00:31:26.839 --> 00:31:28.779
get married and have kids. They certainly can't

00:31:28.779 --> 00:31:30.900
buy a home. They can't buy a car. They are really

00:31:30.900 --> 00:31:34.059
crushed by this debt. And what was their crime?

00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:36.509
What did they do? They've tried to get a higher

00:31:36.509 --> 00:31:38.630
education. I think that's pretty crazy. And a

00:31:38.630 --> 00:31:40.529
lot of them, when they do this higher education,

00:31:40.750 --> 00:31:43.269
they're 18 years old. Imagine making a decision

00:31:43.269 --> 00:31:45.230
when your brain isn't even fully formed. It's

00:31:45.230 --> 00:31:46.410
going to affect you for the rest of your life.

00:31:46.470 --> 00:31:49.130
You got it. Exactly right. And you talk to these

00:31:49.130 --> 00:31:51.930
kids. How much debt do you owe? What kind of

00:31:51.930 --> 00:31:53.329
interest rates are you paying? Gee, I really

00:31:53.329 --> 00:31:55.349
don't know. They just told me to sign OVM. Is

00:31:55.349 --> 00:32:01.230
that right? Now, right now, we are a week, not

00:32:01.230 --> 00:32:03.369
even a week out, just a few days away from two.

00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:07.839
mass shootings in a row and whenever these things

00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:12.019
happen there's all these people that want action

00:32:12.019 --> 00:32:14.299
but nobody knows exactly what to do there's calls

00:32:14.299 --> 00:32:17.059
for gun control there's calls for mental health

00:32:17.059 --> 00:32:20.619
reform there's calls for i mean what if anything

00:32:20.619 --> 00:32:23.920
can be done to stop these things from happening

00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:28.660
and how have you sat down and tried to come up

00:32:28.660 --> 00:32:30.839
with some sort of a solution and is there a solution

00:32:31.720 --> 00:32:35.640
Look, I would be lying to you if I told you I

00:32:35.640 --> 00:32:40.799
had a magical answer. I don't. And this is such

00:32:40.799 --> 00:32:45.400
a horrific situation. We had a town meeting.

00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:48.880
We were in Nevada, actually, in Las Vegas, when

00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:52.700
El Paso happened. And we did a town meeting,

00:32:52.740 --> 00:32:55.259
and I said, let's take a moment of silence to

00:32:55.259 --> 00:32:58.180
remember the victims and pray for the survivors.

00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:01.920
Literally, the next day. in another part of Las

00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:05.200
Vegas, I have to do it again. And I said, I can't

00:33:05.200 --> 00:33:07.460
believe that just yesterday we did this and I

00:33:07.460 --> 00:33:11.559
have to do it again. This is, I don't know what

00:33:11.559 --> 00:33:13.500
the words, you know, my friend Beto O 'Rourke

00:33:13.500 --> 00:33:15.599
would say, you don't know what words, what can

00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:17.940
you say? It happens again and again. Who can

00:33:17.940 --> 00:33:21.880
imagine some lunatic walking into a school or

00:33:21.880 --> 00:33:25.380
a mall or just on a nightclub area and taking

00:33:25.380 --> 00:33:27.019
out an assault weapon and shooting down people?

00:33:29.079 --> 00:33:31.880
That we almost become to accept this as a normal

00:33:31.880 --> 00:33:36.559
part of American life is incredible. It's just

00:33:36.559 --> 00:33:39.140
totally demoralizing. All right. So here's what

00:33:39.140 --> 00:33:42.319
I think. There's no magical answer. But let me

00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:44.119
tell you what I think. First of all, this is

00:33:44.119 --> 00:33:48.000
the reality. The reality is that today as we

00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:51.759
speak, there are approximately 400 million guns

00:33:51.759 --> 00:33:53.640
in America today. We have more guns than we have

00:33:53.640 --> 00:33:59.569
people. We have between 5 to 10 million assault

00:33:59.569 --> 00:34:01.630
weapons, and an assault weapon, as you know,

00:34:01.730 --> 00:34:04.029
is a military -style weapon designed to kill

00:34:04.029 --> 00:34:07.289
human beings kind of rapidly. And then on top

00:34:07.289 --> 00:34:11.489
of that, we have, again, nothing to be proud

00:34:11.489 --> 00:34:14.269
of, but we have a number of mentally unstable

00:34:14.269 --> 00:34:16.730
people, people, for whatever reason, walk in

00:34:16.730 --> 00:34:18.409
the streets, they're suicidal, they're homicidal.

00:34:19.429 --> 00:34:22.590
That's the mix that we have. I think the answer

00:34:22.590 --> 00:34:24.610
is, and I'm not... the guy to invent all these

00:34:24.610 --> 00:34:26.710
ideas, but here's some of what we have to do.

00:34:26.769 --> 00:34:31.230
First of all, if you want to own a gun in America,

00:34:31.869 --> 00:34:37.269
we have got to know that you are a stable person,

00:34:37.369 --> 00:34:44.210
and that means that we need to expand the background

00:34:44.210 --> 00:34:46.909
checks that currently exist. Okay, so we've got

00:34:46.909 --> 00:34:49.090
to know, did you beat up your wife? Have you

00:34:49.090 --> 00:34:52.449
committed crimes? Et cetera, et cetera. What

00:34:52.449 --> 00:34:55.530
is the state of your mental health? Number two,

00:34:55.550 --> 00:34:58.170
we've got to make that universal. Number two,

00:34:58.170 --> 00:35:02.289
right now, there is a background check if you

00:35:02.289 --> 00:35:06.369
walk into a gun show, into a gun shop, but you

00:35:06.369 --> 00:35:09.590
can buy guns in various states at a gun show,

00:35:09.750 --> 00:35:12.409
and you don't have to do any of that. You and

00:35:12.409 --> 00:35:14.690
I go to a gun show, you sell me a gun, I don't

00:35:14.690 --> 00:35:19.809
have to do that. Third of all, I can today legally...

00:35:20.190 --> 00:35:24.110
walk into a gun show, pass the background check,

00:35:24.230 --> 00:35:26.710
and buy a dozen guns, walk out and sell them

00:35:26.710 --> 00:35:29.190
to criminal elements who will use them for bad

00:35:29.190 --> 00:35:35.150
things. So I think those are issues that most

00:35:35.150 --> 00:35:37.429
Americans believe we have got to deal with, and

00:35:37.429 --> 00:35:40.670
we can. Fourthly, I happen to believe, and I

00:35:40.670 --> 00:35:43.210
believe this for 30 years, that we should not

00:35:43.210 --> 00:35:45.510
be selling or distributing assault weapons in

00:35:45.510 --> 00:35:48.760
this country. They are weapons of mass destruction

00:35:48.760 --> 00:35:51.019
in a sense. They kill people rapidly as we saw.

00:35:51.159 --> 00:35:53.340
And thank God, by the way, when we talk about

00:35:53.340 --> 00:35:56.179
both Dayton and El Paso, thank God, cops were

00:35:56.179 --> 00:35:58.199
there very, very quickly and did an incredible

00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:00.579
job. Because if that guy had walked into the

00:36:00.579 --> 00:36:03.139
nightclub, there could have been dozens and dozens

00:36:03.139 --> 00:36:05.880
more people killed within a few minutes' time.

00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:11.320
I happen to believe, A, that we should not be

00:36:11.320 --> 00:36:14.340
selling or distributing assault weapons in this

00:36:14.340 --> 00:36:18.199
country. That's my view. So I believe in a ban

00:36:18.199 --> 00:36:19.800
on assault weapons. And I think we have got to

00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:23.519
begin thinking about when we have 5 to 10 million

00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:25.699
assault weapons, which is more than the US military

00:36:25.699 --> 00:36:28.840
has, we have to think about a strong licensing

00:36:28.840 --> 00:36:32.360
procedure in terms of who owns these assault

00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:36.769
weapons. what i think there are many other things

00:36:36.769 --> 00:36:38.309
but those are some of the ideas that are out

00:36:38.309 --> 00:36:42.289
there now the legal gun owners who are law -abiding

00:36:42.289 --> 00:36:44.909
citizens who would never in a million years think

00:36:44.909 --> 00:36:47.150
about going around shooting people but they love

00:36:47.150 --> 00:36:49.610
guns they hear this kind of stuff about like

00:36:49.610 --> 00:36:52.610
banning assault rifles banning assault weapons

00:36:52.610 --> 00:36:54.590
they don't even like the term assault weapons

00:36:54.590 --> 00:36:56.869
right they like to refer to them as their individual

00:36:56.869 --> 00:37:00.940
names for whatever they are these people feel

00:37:00.940 --> 00:37:04.380
like this is an inexorable part of being an American,

00:37:04.579 --> 00:37:07.079
that you should be able to own a gun. It's written

00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:09.559
into our Bill of Rights. It's written into the

00:37:09.559 --> 00:37:14.179
way this country was founded. It's the Second

00:37:14.179 --> 00:37:16.980
Amendment. What do you say to those people that

00:37:16.980 --> 00:37:20.800
don't want to give up their guns, and they want

00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:23.099
to protect themselves? They feel like these guns

00:37:23.099 --> 00:37:26.360
are viable options to protect themselves from

00:37:26.360 --> 00:37:30.500
criminals. I understand that. And Joe, as you

00:37:30.500 --> 00:37:32.219
may know, I'm a senator from the state of Vermont.

00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:34.360
And the state of Vermont is one of the most rural

00:37:34.360 --> 00:37:36.980
states in America. Every fall, we've got thousands

00:37:36.980 --> 00:37:39.900
and thousands of people out in the woods hunting.

00:37:40.219 --> 00:37:41.880
And it's something that's part of our tradition.

00:37:42.099 --> 00:37:43.980
I believe in it. I believe in the Second Amendment.

00:37:45.159 --> 00:37:47.619
But all that I ask of the gun owners, and you're

00:37:47.619 --> 00:37:50.800
absolutely right, 99 .9 % of gun owners would

00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:52.820
never in a million, billion years think of doing

00:37:52.820 --> 00:37:56.300
these horrible things. But in the moment that

00:37:56.300 --> 00:38:00.250
we are living in, I think that we're all going

00:38:00.250 --> 00:38:02.750
to have to make, you know, some concessions to

00:38:02.750 --> 00:38:05.909
the reality of what is going on. And that is

00:38:05.909 --> 00:38:09.010
that there is a small number of, call them what

00:38:09.010 --> 00:38:11.889
you want, brave people who are prepared to do

00:38:11.889 --> 00:38:14.389
that. You know, in Australia, you remember that

00:38:14.389 --> 00:38:17.369
terrible, New Zealand, I'm sorry, the terrible

00:38:17.369 --> 00:38:20.369
shooting at the mosque. And they moved pretty

00:38:20.369 --> 00:38:25.010
quickly in an aggressive way. So, you know, I

00:38:25.010 --> 00:38:27.869
wish I can say in the best of all possible worlds,

00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:31.320
Yeah, you can own any weapon you want and so

00:38:31.320 --> 00:38:33.300
forth and so on. We're not living in the best

00:38:33.300 --> 00:38:35.679
of all possible worlds. We're living in a world

00:38:35.679 --> 00:38:39.139
where we're shocked every day by horror. I agree

00:38:39.139 --> 00:38:41.420
we are living in a terrible situation. I mean

00:38:41.420 --> 00:38:44.099
there's hundreds of mass shootings a year now,

00:38:44.219 --> 00:38:46.639
which is insane. And if you look at the number

00:38:46.639 --> 00:38:48.760
in comparison to the rest of the world, it's

00:38:48.760 --> 00:38:50.980
crazy. Like a big one in another country is like

00:38:50.980 --> 00:38:53.460
three mass shootings in a year. We had more than

00:38:53.460 --> 00:38:58.550
270. It's crazy. How would you implement something

00:38:58.550 --> 00:39:01.550
like this? Well, the idea of banning assault

00:39:01.550 --> 00:39:06.429
weapons has been done. In 1994, we banned assault

00:39:06.429 --> 00:39:11.190
weapons. I believe it was for 10 years. That

00:39:11.190 --> 00:39:15.650
ban was undone by a Republican majority. And

00:39:15.650 --> 00:39:18.349
it didn't, you know, I'm not suggesting, by the

00:39:18.349 --> 00:39:20.389
way, that anything here, that if you banned assault

00:39:20.389 --> 00:39:22.329
weapons tomorrow, that it would radically change

00:39:22.329 --> 00:39:25.150
everything. But we have got to do the best that

00:39:25.150 --> 00:39:28.300
we can do. And again, I preface my remarks by

00:39:28.300 --> 00:39:29.519
telling you, I don't have a magical solution.

00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:32.059
You've got hundreds of millions of guns out there.

00:39:32.119 --> 00:39:33.900
You have people who should not be owning these

00:39:33.900 --> 00:39:38.139
guns who get set off by God knows what and do

00:39:38.139 --> 00:39:41.239
terrible things. All we can do is the best that

00:39:41.239 --> 00:39:43.880
we can do. But to say we can't do anything, I

00:39:43.880 --> 00:39:46.519
think, is a real disservice to the American.

00:39:46.579 --> 00:39:49.219
Now, I'll tell you something else that bothers

00:39:49.219 --> 00:39:52.219
me, you know, in addition to the horror of seeing

00:39:52.219 --> 00:39:55.739
people lying on the street dead. is what this

00:39:55.739 --> 00:39:57.500
is doing to the children of this country. And

00:39:57.500 --> 00:40:00.000
I think we underestimate that. I have seven grandchildren.

00:40:01.019 --> 00:40:04.739
And for them and for kids all over this country,

00:40:04.900 --> 00:40:06.900
you're going to see the falls coming, kids coming

00:40:06.900 --> 00:40:08.860
back to school. You're going to see in schools

00:40:08.860 --> 00:40:11.300
all over America drills. All right, this is what

00:40:11.300 --> 00:40:13.719
you do if somebody walks into the school. All

00:40:13.719 --> 00:40:15.139
right, you're going to hide under here. You go

00:40:15.139 --> 00:40:19.380
over there. Kids, a couple of months ago, I was

00:40:19.380 --> 00:40:21.599
in Iowa. This guy is about six foot two, big

00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:24.230
guy, probably a football player. And he says,

00:40:24.389 --> 00:40:27.230
Senator Sanders, I got to tell you that the young

00:40:27.230 --> 00:40:29.650
people in my school are increasingly frightened,

00:40:29.829 --> 00:40:32.110
terrified about what could happen in the school.

00:40:33.170 --> 00:40:36.110
Think about what this – the trauma, the trauma

00:40:36.110 --> 00:40:39.969
of what this gun violence is doing. So I think

00:40:39.969 --> 00:40:42.969
we're all – as Americans, there ain't no easy

00:40:42.969 --> 00:40:44.530
answers here. But I think we're all going to

00:40:44.530 --> 00:40:46.530
have to come together and figure this one out

00:40:46.530 --> 00:40:49.750
and do the best that we can. Now, would that

00:40:49.750 --> 00:40:54.369
mean forcibly – removing these guns from people's

00:40:54.369 --> 00:40:55.909
homes i don't think you're going to have the

00:40:55.909 --> 00:40:58.070
fbi knocking on somebody's doors and taking that

00:40:58.070 --> 00:40:59.789
that's not what we do in america but if we have

00:40:59.789 --> 00:41:02.349
400 million guns already out there and they're

00:41:02.349 --> 00:41:04.849
building more every year right now as we speak

00:41:04.849 --> 00:41:07.889
gun manufacturers or make manufacturers are making

00:41:07.889 --> 00:41:10.510
more guns this is happening right now so if those

00:41:10.510 --> 00:41:12.969
guns already exist it's more than enough oh yeah

00:41:12.969 --> 00:41:18.199
how would you stop well again i think look You

00:41:18.199 --> 00:41:20.219
know, I do think there should be a ban on assault

00:41:20.219 --> 00:41:22.559
weapons. So that means that manufacturers would

00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:24.480
not be able to produce or sell those weapons.

00:41:24.659 --> 00:41:27.159
To American citizens, but not to the military,

00:41:27.320 --> 00:41:30.059
obviously. Right, obviously. Yeah. Okay. So,

00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:32.539
you know, and your point is well taken. If you've

00:41:32.539 --> 00:41:35.519
got 400 million guns out there, you know. So

00:41:35.519 --> 00:41:38.460
I think there are approaches. No one has any

00:41:38.460 --> 00:41:40.739
magical solution, but I've given you. I'll tell

00:41:40.739 --> 00:41:42.380
you something else that I didn't mention, and

00:41:42.380 --> 00:41:46.340
that is the role of gun manufacturers is that.

00:41:46.940 --> 00:41:49.880
If you are a gun manufacturer and you are selling

00:41:49.880 --> 00:41:53.460
a hell of a lot of guns to a gun store in an

00:41:53.460 --> 00:41:56.039
area which normally you would not think. I mean,

00:41:56.039 --> 00:41:59.519
these guys know what cities buy, what towns buy,

00:41:59.659 --> 00:42:03.500
how many guns. And if suddenly there is a tremendous

00:42:03.500 --> 00:42:07.659
demand, you've got to be thinking, why is this

00:42:07.659 --> 00:42:10.380
gun store buying so many guns? It doesn't reflect

00:42:10.380 --> 00:42:12.320
the population in the area. You've got to deal

00:42:12.320 --> 00:42:13.559
with that issue with the gun owners who have

00:42:13.559 --> 00:42:16.690
to take some responsibility. besides the guns

00:42:16.690 --> 00:42:19.130
the gun manufacturers i'm sorry right besides

00:42:19.130 --> 00:42:22.170
the guns the gun manufacturers the other gigantic

00:42:22.170 --> 00:42:25.670
issue is mental health the only way any of this

00:42:25.670 --> 00:42:28.869
ever happens is someone has to be insanely mentally

00:42:28.869 --> 00:42:32.449
depraved that's the only way and many of them

00:42:32.449 --> 00:42:36.269
are medicated and many of them are on pharmaceutical

00:42:36.269 --> 00:42:38.710
drugs and they have been since they were children

00:42:38.710 --> 00:42:42.800
including amphetamines like Adderall and Prozac

00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:45.940
and all this different stuff that has varied

00:42:45.940 --> 00:42:49.840
effects on the human brain. What could be done

00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:53.019
and what would you done to analyze this, to find

00:42:53.019 --> 00:42:55.260
out what the cause and effect are, and to try

00:42:55.260 --> 00:42:59.099
to figure out what role and how much these drugs

00:42:59.099 --> 00:43:02.300
are responsible? Well, two things. Let me respond

00:43:02.300 --> 00:43:05.599
first by saying it goes without saying that we

00:43:05.599 --> 00:43:07.519
have a mental health crisis in America before

00:43:07.519 --> 00:43:11.059
we even talk about drugs. And for whatever reason,

00:43:11.179 --> 00:43:14.559
you know, there are a whole lot of people in

00:43:14.559 --> 00:43:16.519
the nature of our health care system. Getting

00:43:16.519 --> 00:43:19.260
back to health care is I just talked to a woman

00:43:19.260 --> 00:43:25.260
literally last night. And we had a town meeting.

00:43:26.380 --> 00:43:28.920
And she said, this is unbelievable. She said,

00:43:30.780 --> 00:43:34.420
Bernie, I was in Las Vegas when the terrible

00:43:34.420 --> 00:43:38.449
shooting took place. And now I am – and I can

00:43:38.449 --> 00:43:40.670
understand this perfectly. I'm seeing Dayton

00:43:40.670 --> 00:43:42.969
and I'm seeing – watching television El Paso

00:43:42.969 --> 00:43:47.389
and I'm getting a PTSD reaction. All right? And

00:43:47.389 --> 00:43:49.349
that's totally – if you were in a place where

00:43:49.349 --> 00:43:52.269
people were shot down and I'm trying to get counseling,

00:43:52.469 --> 00:43:56.150
I can't find it. I remember a guy called up –

00:43:56.150 --> 00:43:58.610
a woman called up my office in Burlington, Vermont.

00:43:59.070 --> 00:44:03.929
And she said, I'm worried about my husband, what

00:44:03.929 --> 00:44:06.510
he – my brother. Was it his brother? What he

00:44:06.510 --> 00:44:08.889
might do to himself or somebody else, we're looking

00:44:08.889 --> 00:44:10.809
for mental health counseling. We can't find something

00:44:10.809 --> 00:44:14.269
that we can afford. So we need above and beyond

00:44:14.269 --> 00:44:18.510
gun violence. We need, and this is why I believe

00:44:18.510 --> 00:44:21.030
in Medicare for all, mental health is health

00:44:21.030 --> 00:44:23.030
care. You break your arm, that's a health issue.

00:44:23.090 --> 00:44:26.349
That's a medical issue. Mental health is a medical

00:44:26.349 --> 00:44:29.469
issue. And we have got to make mental health

00:44:29.469 --> 00:44:32.269
counseling available to all people in this country

00:44:32.269 --> 00:44:35.750
when they need it, not six months from now. at

00:44:35.750 --> 00:44:37.489
a price they can afford, and under Medicare for

00:44:37.489 --> 00:44:39.889
all, it would be free. So that's number one.

00:44:39.909 --> 00:44:43.190
Number two, your point about studying the impact

00:44:43.190 --> 00:44:48.630
of drugs on people's behavior and possibly resulting

00:44:48.630 --> 00:44:51.329
in violence absolutely deserves to be studied.

00:44:51.389 --> 00:44:53.889
We should be studying the impact of drugs. In

00:44:53.889 --> 00:44:56.710
my view, this is a layman's view, you know, I'm

00:44:56.710 --> 00:45:00.610
not a psychiatrist. I worry very much that we

00:45:00.610 --> 00:45:04.469
are over -medicating kids in schools. You know,

00:45:04.469 --> 00:45:08.170
we have this deficit deficient issue. You know,

00:45:08.170 --> 00:45:10.289
kids are running around and they're active. You

00:45:10.289 --> 00:45:12.030
know, when I was a kid, people used to run around

00:45:12.030 --> 00:45:13.409
and they were active. You know, they weren't

00:45:13.409 --> 00:45:16.449
drugged up. So I worry about that whole business.

00:45:16.590 --> 00:45:18.289
But your point is well taken. I think we need

00:45:18.289 --> 00:45:20.849
to study this issue and make sure that these

00:45:20.849 --> 00:45:24.010
drugs, in fact, are not causing kinds of reactions

00:45:24.010 --> 00:45:27.369
that we will regret later. Now, on the subject

00:45:27.369 --> 00:45:30.110
of drugs, marijuana is obviously a big issue

00:45:30.110 --> 00:45:32.449
in this country. And we've seen many states make

00:45:32.449 --> 00:45:35.750
it. recreational including this one what do you

00:45:35.750 --> 00:45:39.070
think could be done and what should be done to

00:45:39.070 --> 00:45:41.570
have this across the especially federally you

00:45:41.570 --> 00:45:43.329
know there's a guy that i have on the podcast

00:45:43.329 --> 00:45:45.289
coming up soon his name is john norris and he

00:45:45.289 --> 00:45:48.690
wrote a book on the cartels growing marijuana

00:45:48.690 --> 00:45:51.949
illegally all over this country and selling it

00:45:51.949 --> 00:45:53.949
especially particularly in california now because

00:45:53.949 --> 00:45:56.949
it's a misdemeanor because it's legal recreationally

00:45:56.949 --> 00:45:59.650
and selling it with all sorts of horrible pesticides

00:45:59.650 --> 00:46:03.530
on it all sorts of like very In fact, deadly

00:46:03.530 --> 00:46:07.369
chemicals. All of this because it's not federally

00:46:07.369 --> 00:46:10.429
legal, because we can't have sanctioned, licensed

00:46:10.429 --> 00:46:13.489
companies doing an ethical job of growing something

00:46:13.489 --> 00:46:16.469
that any responsible, law -abiding person should

00:46:16.469 --> 00:46:22.510
be able to consume. Okay. Let me say this. When

00:46:22.510 --> 00:46:24.989
I ran for president for the Democratic nomination

00:46:24.989 --> 00:46:29.989
in 2016, I talked about a broken criminal justice

00:46:29.989 --> 00:46:34.400
system. which ends up having in the United States

00:46:34.400 --> 00:46:36.360
more people in jail than any other country. We

00:46:36.360 --> 00:46:37.900
have more people in jail than China does, which

00:46:37.900 --> 00:46:42.599
is a communist authoritarian country. And what

00:46:42.599 --> 00:46:48.940
I call for then and I call for now is the legalization

00:46:48.940 --> 00:46:51.420
of marijuana in America. Right now, you have

00:46:51.420 --> 00:46:53.780
a federal law. It's called the Controlled Substance

00:46:53.780 --> 00:46:57.269
Act. He has heroin. Here is marijuana. They're

00:46:57.269 --> 00:46:59.789
at the same level. That is insane. Heroin is

00:46:59.789 --> 00:47:02.610
a killer drug. You can argue the pluses and minuses

00:47:02.610 --> 00:47:05.590
of marijuana, but marijuana ain't heroin. So

00:47:05.590 --> 00:47:07.030
we have to end that, and that's what I will do.

00:47:07.150 --> 00:47:08.670
As president of the United States, I believe

00:47:08.670 --> 00:47:10.510
we can do that through executive order, and I

00:47:10.510 --> 00:47:13.349
will do that. Second of all, what we have now

00:47:13.349 --> 00:47:16.469
is a number of states, and I'm very proud. I

00:47:16.469 --> 00:47:19.409
talked about during 2016 what seemed kind of

00:47:19.409 --> 00:47:22.150
radical. The need to legalize and decriminalize

00:47:22.150 --> 00:47:24.389
marijuana, a very radical idea. Four years ago,

00:47:24.429 --> 00:47:26.090
it is spreading all over the country. And by

00:47:26.090 --> 00:47:28.570
the way, it blows my mind. The drive through

00:47:28.570 --> 00:47:30.429
Nevada, I think here even in California, now

00:47:30.429 --> 00:47:32.809
you see signs. Corporations, buy our marijuana.

00:47:33.409 --> 00:47:35.690
And four years ago, people getting arrested for

00:47:35.690 --> 00:47:37.710
doing that, right? Their lives being destroyed.

00:47:37.889 --> 00:47:39.429
Well, particularly in Nevada, there was life

00:47:39.429 --> 00:47:41.710
sentences given out in the 70s. Can you believe

00:47:41.710 --> 00:47:43.469
that? And now you have corporations selling the

00:47:43.469 --> 00:47:47.130
damn product that people went to jail for. So

00:47:47.130 --> 00:47:50.750
I think... Ultimately, we've got to legalize

00:47:50.750 --> 00:47:53.489
marijuana. And what's good news, in a sense,

00:47:53.530 --> 00:47:56.309
is some communities, some cities are expunging

00:47:56.309 --> 00:47:59.630
the records. So if you were arrested, have a

00:47:59.630 --> 00:48:02.090
criminal record for selling marijuana, that is

00:48:02.090 --> 00:48:04.030
being expunged, and that is the right thing to

00:48:04.030 --> 00:48:06.349
do. We can argue about the pluses and minuses.

00:48:06.349 --> 00:48:10.489
I'm not a great fan of drugs. I smoked marijuana

00:48:10.489 --> 00:48:12.570
a couple of times. It didn't do much for me.

00:48:12.650 --> 00:48:14.070
Other people, I guess, have different impacts.

00:48:14.110 --> 00:48:15.969
Just a couple of times? That's right. True. It

00:48:15.969 --> 00:48:17.630
didn't do much for you? Yeah, it made me cough.

00:48:17.730 --> 00:48:19.349
Where were you getting it? I don't know. It was

00:48:19.349 --> 00:48:20.690
in Vermont, northern Vermont. Oh, that's the

00:48:20.690 --> 00:48:24.070
problem. Maybe. It'll do something for you. Well,

00:48:24.130 --> 00:48:25.570
it made me cough a whole lot. All right. But

00:48:25.570 --> 00:48:27.409
I gather other people have had different experiences,

00:48:27.429 --> 00:48:29.550
correct? Oh, for sure. Yeah, I certainly have.

00:48:31.110 --> 00:48:34.449
The other problem is, of course, with illegal

00:48:34.449 --> 00:48:39.450
drugs comes you get this horrible cycle. Particularly

00:48:39.450 --> 00:48:43.269
in inner cities where you have people that are

00:48:43.269 --> 00:48:45.510
incarcerated for illegal drugs. Illegal drugs

00:48:45.510 --> 00:48:48.349
seem to be the only way out. The hard drugs,

00:48:48.429 --> 00:48:50.230
when we're talking about cocaine and all these

00:48:50.230 --> 00:48:54.110
other drugs, how does one stop that? And would

00:48:54.110 --> 00:48:57.949
you ever consider legalizing all drugs or decriminalizing

00:48:57.949 --> 00:49:00.190
all drugs? Not at this point, no, I wouldn't.

00:49:00.550 --> 00:49:06.579
But you're touching on a real tragedy. Yes. When

00:49:06.579 --> 00:49:09.539
we talk about criminal justice in America, we

00:49:09.539 --> 00:49:11.840
have over 2 million people in jail. They are

00:49:11.840 --> 00:49:13.880
disproportionately African -American, Latino,

00:49:14.059 --> 00:49:17.139
and Native American. And here's what I think.

00:49:17.559 --> 00:49:20.840
I think in the wealthiest country in the history

00:49:20.840 --> 00:49:23.800
of the world, what we have got to do instead

00:49:23.800 --> 00:49:26.820
of building more jails and locking up more people,

00:49:26.860 --> 00:49:29.840
we really do have to invest in our young people,

00:49:29.900 --> 00:49:32.579
especially young people in distressed communities.

00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:35.829
What does that mean? If we can, and we can do

00:49:35.829 --> 00:49:38.130
this with a proper amount of resources, make

00:49:38.130 --> 00:49:39.809
sure the kids are not dropping out of school.

00:49:39.969 --> 00:49:42.829
If you drop out of school today, you know, say

00:49:42.829 --> 00:49:44.650
you drop out in your second or third year of

00:49:44.650 --> 00:49:46.469
high school, you don't have an education, you

00:49:46.469 --> 00:49:47.969
don't have any job skills, what are you going

00:49:47.969 --> 00:49:50.230
to do with your life? And the answer is you may

00:49:50.230 --> 00:49:52.769
well do drugs, you know, or you'll get in trouble,

00:49:52.869 --> 00:49:55.869
self -destructive activity or destructive activity,

00:49:55.969 --> 00:49:57.690
and you're going to end up in jail. It makes

00:49:57.690 --> 00:50:00.230
so much more sense from a humane perspective,

00:50:00.449 --> 00:50:03.860
protecting our people. as well as a financial

00:50:03.860 --> 00:50:05.980
situation. We're spending $80 billion a year

00:50:05.980 --> 00:50:08.460
to invest in these kids. What does it mean? It

00:50:08.460 --> 00:50:10.699
means making sure they get the education that

00:50:10.699 --> 00:50:12.519
they need, paying attention, having good schools,

00:50:12.719 --> 00:50:15.559
making sure that they get the jobs that are out

00:50:15.559 --> 00:50:18.820
there, doing job training. There was a principal

00:50:18.820 --> 00:50:20.880
in a school in southern Vermont. I'll never forget

00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:22.300
what she said. It was a working class school.

00:50:22.659 --> 00:50:25.000
And she said, Bernie, I love these kids. I am

00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:27.480
not going to let them drop out. And she had a

00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:30.239
mentoring program just watching the kids who

00:50:30.239 --> 00:50:33.340
are mostly at risk. so that they would not end

00:50:33.340 --> 00:50:36.300
up going through the cracks and getting into

00:50:36.300 --> 00:50:38.079
trouble. That's what we should be doing as a

00:50:38.079 --> 00:50:39.900
nation. And when we do that, we invest in the

00:50:39.900 --> 00:50:41.940
kids, we get them jobs, we get them education.

00:50:42.239 --> 00:50:45.460
The likelihood of them falling into bad ways

00:50:45.460 --> 00:50:48.219
is significantly reduced. All those things sound

00:50:48.219 --> 00:50:51.320
great. The uncomfortable reality about drugs,

00:50:51.360 --> 00:50:53.340
though, is that when drugs are illegal, criminals

00:50:53.340 --> 00:50:55.940
sell them. And there's obviously a need for drugs

00:50:55.940 --> 00:50:58.860
in terms of, not necessarily a need, but a demand

00:50:58.860 --> 00:51:00.820
for drugs. There's a demand for drugs in this

00:51:00.820 --> 00:51:04.440
country that's absolutely fueling Mexican cartels

00:51:04.440 --> 00:51:07.199
and illegal drug runners inside this country.

00:51:07.400 --> 00:51:11.199
I mean, there's a lot of that. How do you curb

00:51:11.199 --> 00:51:16.820
that if drugs are illegal? You're raising a deep

00:51:16.820 --> 00:51:18.900
question. All right. So the question essentially

00:51:18.900 --> 00:51:23.059
that you're asking is what is the cause of the

00:51:23.059 --> 00:51:26.460
opioid epidemic? Yes? That's one aspect of it.

00:51:26.559 --> 00:51:28.739
But the opioid epidemic is interesting because

00:51:28.739 --> 00:51:30.480
there's so much of it that's coming legally.

00:51:31.260 --> 00:51:33.699
That's not the drug cartels. That's the pharmaceutical

00:51:33.699 --> 00:51:36.340
industry. You're right. But the heroin is illegal.

00:51:36.599 --> 00:51:39.800
Yes. All right. Now you're asking – this is a

00:51:39.800 --> 00:51:41.739
very, very deep question, which we don't talk

00:51:41.739 --> 00:51:46.579
about terribly much. Why is it that so many of

00:51:46.579 --> 00:51:50.599
our people are turning to drugs, to alcohol,

00:51:50.739 --> 00:51:53.440
by the way? And I don't mean a drink a night,

00:51:53.519 --> 00:51:57.920
but I mean serious alcohol problems. And tragically,

00:51:57.920 --> 00:52:02.239
to suicide. We now have for the last three years

00:52:02.239 --> 00:52:05.420
something that is ahistorical, never happened

00:52:05.420 --> 00:52:08.960
before in modern history. And that is our life

00:52:08.960 --> 00:52:12.300
expectancy is actually going down. And this is

00:52:12.300 --> 00:52:14.139
hitting. All over the country, but especially

00:52:14.139 --> 00:52:17.679
hitting rural areas. And what the doctors are

00:52:17.679 --> 00:52:20.199
saying is that these are diseases of despair.

00:52:21.260 --> 00:52:24.400
Despair. So you're in West Virginia. You're in

00:52:24.400 --> 00:52:27.519
rural Ohio. Or any place, Vermont, any place.

00:52:29.219 --> 00:52:32.239
And the job you used to have, earning a decent

00:52:32.239 --> 00:52:36.159
living, is now in China. Your kid can't afford

00:52:36.159 --> 00:52:38.340
to go to college. Maybe you can't afford health

00:52:38.340 --> 00:52:41.260
care. You've got nothing to look forward to.

00:52:42.119 --> 00:52:47.159
Under that scenario, drugs become – alcohol becomes

00:52:47.159 --> 00:52:52.320
a way out and the worst case is suicide. So I

00:52:52.320 --> 00:52:54.639
think what we're talking about is why is this

00:52:54.639 --> 00:52:58.119
happening often in rural areas, in urban as well?

00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:04.000
And how can we reestablish hope and optimism

00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:07.730
in the American people? And that gets back to

00:53:07.730 --> 00:53:10.610
a whole lot of other issues. It means if people

00:53:10.610 --> 00:53:13.369
have health care as a right, that will certainly

00:53:13.369 --> 00:53:15.130
play a role in this thing. They walk into the

00:53:15.130 --> 00:53:18.030
doctor when they need. But it also means that

00:53:18.030 --> 00:53:21.489
people need decent jobs to pay them a living

00:53:21.489 --> 00:53:25.010
wage. That means we have to rebuild rural America.

00:53:25.010 --> 00:53:26.989
We have to rebuild the depressed communities

00:53:26.989 --> 00:53:30.170
in urban America. It means that we have to have

00:53:30.170 --> 00:53:34.639
a great educational system. People say, oh, that's

00:53:34.639 --> 00:53:36.920
great, Bernie. That's utopian. It is not utopian.

00:53:37.300 --> 00:53:39.420
This is something that in the wealthiest country

00:53:39.420 --> 00:53:41.179
in the history of the world we can afford and

00:53:41.179 --> 00:53:44.420
we should be doing rather than creating a situation

00:53:44.420 --> 00:53:46.739
where Amazon pays zero in federal income taxes.

00:53:46.880 --> 00:53:48.719
So to answer your question, this is a deep question.

00:53:48.960 --> 00:53:51.239
And again, I'm not here to tell you I have all

00:53:51.239 --> 00:53:53.420
the answers. But there are a lot of people out

00:53:53.420 --> 00:53:56.239
there who have basically given up hope. And for

00:53:56.239 --> 00:53:58.699
those people, I guess drugs is the alternative.

00:53:59.039 --> 00:54:01.239
So what you're saying essentially is that if

00:54:01.239 --> 00:54:04.300
we can do something to mitigate despair, then

00:54:04.300 --> 00:54:07.900
we'll do something to at least stop some of the

00:54:07.900 --> 00:54:10.219
demand for these illegal drugs. I believe that

00:54:10.219 --> 00:54:12.480
is the case. Look, if I am optimistic, if I'm

00:54:12.480 --> 00:54:14.320
excited about going to work tomorrow and I'm

00:54:14.320 --> 00:54:17.079
seeing my kid doing great in school, and when

00:54:17.079 --> 00:54:19.239
I get sick, I can go to the doctor's office and

00:54:19.239 --> 00:54:21.199
have a sense of community. My downtown is not

00:54:21.199 --> 00:54:23.320
all boarded up because businesses have left.

00:54:23.949 --> 00:54:27.110
But we have a community. Yeah. The strong likelihood

00:54:27.110 --> 00:54:30.429
is there will be less diseases of despair and

00:54:30.429 --> 00:54:34.489
drugs than we currently see. When we're talking

00:54:34.489 --> 00:54:37.409
about impoverished communities and chronically,

00:54:37.510 --> 00:54:40.190
when you're talking about cities like Baltimore

00:54:40.190 --> 00:54:43.769
or parts of Chicago and Detroit that have just

00:54:43.769 --> 00:54:46.449
been in a terrible state of despair for long

00:54:46.449 --> 00:54:48.409
periods of time and it doesn't seem like there's

00:54:48.409 --> 00:54:50.809
a way out, the people that are born there, the

00:54:50.809 --> 00:54:53.530
people that live there, they live in this state

00:54:53.530 --> 00:54:59.019
of despair. What can be done to resolve? all

00:54:59.019 --> 00:55:01.519
of these terribly impoverished communities and

00:55:01.519 --> 00:55:04.019
bring them up to a standard where these kids

00:55:04.019 --> 00:55:06.579
that grow up there, they feel like there is an

00:55:06.579 --> 00:55:09.360
out, that they do have an opportunity. And why

00:55:09.360 --> 00:55:12.019
is this not addressed when we talk about making

00:55:12.019 --> 00:55:15.280
America great? Wouldn't like fixing the worst

00:55:15.280 --> 00:55:17.599
parts of the country be the primary concern?

00:55:17.840 --> 00:55:22.800
The less people that grow up in a terribly disadvantageous

00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:25.789
position from birth. Wouldn't that be an important

00:55:25.789 --> 00:55:28.469
thing and what can you do to resolve that? Well,

00:55:28.530 --> 00:55:31.510
Joe, I think you said it better than I can. I

00:55:31.510 --> 00:55:34.710
think you're right. When we talk about what it

00:55:34.710 --> 00:55:37.250
means to live in a great society, a great nation,

00:55:37.329 --> 00:55:39.969
a nation that we're proud of, I'm afraid there

00:55:39.969 --> 00:55:42.949
are some people who have incredible wealth and

00:55:42.949 --> 00:55:46.280
power who say, you know what's great? a growth

00:55:46.280 --> 00:55:48.280
in the number of billionaires in America. Isn't

00:55:48.280 --> 00:55:50.380
that terrific? And we got one guy who's worth

00:55:50.380 --> 00:55:54.139
$155 billion. How great? Oh, by the way, we're

00:55:54.139 --> 00:55:56.719
building more nuclear weapons. And we're spending

00:55:56.719 --> 00:56:00.619
$750 billion a year on the military. Isn't that

00:56:00.619 --> 00:56:02.940
extraordinary? And by the way, do you see the

00:56:02.940 --> 00:56:05.039
yacht that that billionaire has? You know, it's

00:56:05.039 --> 00:56:07.880
three miles long. Isn't that great? Your point

00:56:07.880 --> 00:56:09.760
is that we have to, I think, as I understand

00:56:09.760 --> 00:56:12.539
what you're saying, we have to redefine what

00:56:12.539 --> 00:56:15.530
being a great nation is about. We are not a great

00:56:15.530 --> 00:56:18.949
nation when we have 40 million people living

00:56:18.949 --> 00:56:22.469
in poverty and in despair. We're not a great

00:56:22.469 --> 00:56:24.269
nation when we have massive levels of income

00:56:24.269 --> 00:56:26.329
and wealth inequality, when 87 million people

00:56:26.329 --> 00:56:29.849
can't afford to go to a doctor today. So to answer

00:56:29.849 --> 00:56:32.829
your question, I think that as a nation, we have

00:56:32.829 --> 00:56:36.210
got to focus a great deal of attention on those

00:56:36.210 --> 00:56:38.829
distressed communities. Often they're African

00:56:38.829 --> 00:56:41.190
-American, often they're Latino, often they are

00:56:41.190 --> 00:56:45.320
rural white communities. And that means making

00:56:45.320 --> 00:56:47.440
sure that the kids there get the quality education

00:56:47.440 --> 00:56:51.239
that they deserve, making sure that we're creating

00:56:51.239 --> 00:56:54.960
good paying jobs in those communities. I voted

00:56:54.960 --> 00:56:58.719
against NAFTA, permanent normal trade relations

00:56:58.719 --> 00:57:00.780
with China and other trade agreements because

00:57:00.780 --> 00:57:03.659
I knew that those agreements were written by

00:57:03.659 --> 00:57:06.179
corporate America with the goal of shutting down

00:57:06.179 --> 00:57:08.699
plants in this country and moving abroad. And

00:57:08.699 --> 00:57:10.719
the result of that has been the loss of millions

00:57:10.719 --> 00:57:14.440
of good paying jobs. the complete destruction

00:57:14.440 --> 00:57:16.820
of communities all across this country, in the

00:57:16.820 --> 00:57:19.280
South and all across this country. So we have

00:57:19.280 --> 00:57:22.699
got to rebuild those communities. We have got

00:57:22.699 --> 00:57:25.440
to bring high -tech jobs, not just to Silicon

00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:29.340
Valley, but to rural America again. I don't have

00:57:29.340 --> 00:57:32.260
magic lances, but the goal is we will not, under

00:57:32.260 --> 00:57:35.260
a Sanders administration, turn our backs on distressed

00:57:35.260 --> 00:57:37.579
communities. We will rebuild those communities.

00:57:37.719 --> 00:57:40.039
We will build the millions of units of affordable

00:57:40.039 --> 00:57:43.699
housing. Now think about what it means to a community

00:57:43.699 --> 00:57:46.059
now where people are living in terrible housing

00:57:46.059 --> 00:57:49.119
or housing they cannot afford. When we put young

00:57:49.119 --> 00:57:52.440
people to work rebuilding their own communities,

00:57:52.619 --> 00:57:56.360
will that become an indication of hope and optimism?

00:57:56.599 --> 00:57:59.059
I think it will. We're talking about so many

00:57:59.059 --> 00:58:02.579
deeply important issues and all of them that

00:58:02.579 --> 00:58:05.820
will be under the control or at least the direction

00:58:05.820 --> 00:58:08.559
of the one person who winds up becoming the president

00:58:08.559 --> 00:58:13.360
of the United States. impossible job? I mean,

00:58:13.380 --> 00:58:16.320
it seems like being the president, you are managing

00:58:16.320 --> 00:58:20.760
so many different aspects of our economy, our

00:58:20.760 --> 00:58:24.940
culture, our safety, our environment, international

00:58:24.940 --> 00:58:30.480
communication, and it's so in -depth. How does

00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:32.679
one person do a job like that? Well, one person

00:58:32.679 --> 00:58:35.079
doesn't do it, and you certainly don't do it

00:58:35.079 --> 00:58:37.659
by tweeting every other day. Major policy issues.

00:58:37.760 --> 00:58:39.280
I think he tweets a lot more than every other

00:58:39.280 --> 00:58:44.909
day. What you do, and this is the way any sane

00:58:44.909 --> 00:58:47.750
president operates, is you need to be working

00:58:47.750 --> 00:58:51.449
with the smartest men and women from all walks

00:58:51.449 --> 00:58:53.909
of life who understand these issues. Every issue

00:58:53.909 --> 00:58:56.030
we have touched on, Joe, is enormously complicated.

00:58:56.329 --> 00:58:59.570
And I can send out a 20 -word tweet on it, but

00:58:59.570 --> 00:59:02.670
that doesn't solve it. So unlike Trump, we will

00:59:02.670 --> 00:59:07.510
bring together the— best and most knowledgeable

00:59:07.510 --> 00:59:09.489
people in this country to address the housing

00:59:09.489 --> 00:59:13.769
crisis, to address the issue of these diseases

00:59:13.769 --> 00:59:16.630
of despair. We didn't even touch on climate change,

00:59:16.769 --> 00:59:18.570
you know, and then the future of the planet.

00:59:18.610 --> 00:59:21.329
How do we lead the world in transforming our

00:59:21.329 --> 00:59:23.429
energy system and creating the kind of jobs that

00:59:23.429 --> 00:59:25.469
we need? How do we revitalize American democracy

00:59:25.469 --> 00:59:27.989
so that instead of suppressing the vote, we're

00:59:27.989 --> 00:59:29.590
getting more young people involved in the political

00:59:29.590 --> 00:59:31.449
process? So to answer your question, it is not

00:59:31.449 --> 00:59:33.510
a one -person job, and anyone who thinks it is,

00:59:33.530 --> 00:59:36.559
is dead wrong. You need the help of a very strong

00:59:36.559 --> 00:59:39.820
administration that knows the issues, that comes

00:59:39.820 --> 00:59:41.380
from the ranks of the working class. And this

00:59:41.380 --> 00:59:43.800
is the promise I will make. My administration,

00:59:44.139 --> 00:59:47.079
unlike Trump's, is not going to be filled with

00:59:47.079 --> 00:59:50.480
billionaires who's basically very often greedy

00:59:50.480 --> 00:59:53.260
type people. It is going to be filled with the

00:59:53.260 --> 00:59:55.340
best people often from the working class itself,

00:59:55.420 --> 00:59:58.090
from the trade union movement. people who are

00:59:58.090 --> 01:00:00.090
going to help us create policies that work for

01:00:00.090 --> 01:00:03.429
workers and not just the billionaire class. Now,

01:00:03.489 --> 01:00:05.769
we're getting to the end of your hour here. So

01:00:05.769 --> 01:00:07.909
climate change is obviously an enormous issue

01:00:07.909 --> 01:00:10.630
for our country and for the world. What could

01:00:10.630 --> 01:00:13.429
be done? And what do you think you can do as

01:00:13.429 --> 01:00:16.449
president that can somehow or another slow down

01:00:16.449 --> 01:00:21.210
this process? Well, first of all, we have to

01:00:21.210 --> 01:00:25.010
have a president who, unlike Trump, believes

01:00:25.010 --> 01:00:30.079
in science, and I do. And what the scientists

01:00:30.079 --> 01:00:32.219
are telling us, as I mentioned earlier, is that

01:00:32.219 --> 01:00:34.260
we have fewer than 12 years to transform our

01:00:34.260 --> 01:00:36.480
energy system or else there will be irreparable

01:00:36.480 --> 01:00:39.099
damage done, not only to our country but to the

01:00:39.099 --> 01:00:42.400
world. Now, climate change is not just an American

01:00:42.400 --> 01:00:45.400
issue. So we could do tomorrow, do all the right

01:00:45.400 --> 01:00:47.480
things, but if China and Russia and India and

01:00:47.480 --> 01:00:50.219
the rest of Brazil and Africa does not do the

01:00:50.219 --> 01:00:52.079
right thing, we're not going to make the progress

01:00:52.079 --> 01:00:55.969
we need. Here is what we have to do in my view.

01:00:56.110 --> 01:01:00.030
Number one, we have to tell the fossil fuel industry

01:01:00.030 --> 01:01:02.750
that their short -term profits, and they make

01:01:02.750 --> 01:01:05.690
a whole lot of money, their short -term profits

01:01:05.690 --> 01:01:08.929
are not more important than the future of this

01:01:08.929 --> 01:01:11.489
planet. I don't think that's a hard sell to make.

01:01:11.590 --> 01:01:14.309
You cannot keep producing a product which is

01:01:14.309 --> 01:01:16.619
destroying the planet. in the United States and

01:01:16.619 --> 01:01:18.480
around the world. So by saying that, you're saying

01:01:18.480 --> 01:01:20.119
you would have to move, we would have to move

01:01:20.119 --> 01:01:23.980
consciously away from fossil fuels. No ifs, buts,

01:01:23.980 --> 01:01:26.079
and maybes. And if we do that, how do you tell

01:01:26.079 --> 01:01:28.539
the fossil fuel companies, do you tell them you

01:01:28.539 --> 01:01:30.460
can't sell fossil fuels anymore? There are a

01:01:30.460 --> 01:01:32.239
variety of ways to do that, but that is the bottom

01:01:32.239 --> 01:01:36.179
line. And by the way, in the midst of that, we

01:01:36.179 --> 01:01:42.719
do what we call is a just transition. The guy

01:01:42.719 --> 01:01:45.519
out on the oil rig today simply wants to feed

01:01:45.519 --> 01:01:47.960
his family, and the coal miners today want to

01:01:47.960 --> 01:01:50.099
feed their families. And we're not going to leave

01:01:50.099 --> 01:01:52.400
them. I'm a pro -worker. I have probably the

01:01:52.400 --> 01:01:54.840
strongest pro -worker record of any member of

01:01:54.840 --> 01:01:56.659
the Congress. So it is not my intention to throw

01:01:56.659 --> 01:01:58.920
these guys out on the, and women, out on the

01:01:58.920 --> 01:02:01.280
street and ignore the pain that they will go

01:02:01.280 --> 01:02:04.280
through. We are proposing billions of dollars

01:02:04.280 --> 01:02:06.659
to rebuild those communities and make sure that

01:02:06.659 --> 01:02:10.659
those guys and women get new jobs. just discarding

01:02:10.659 --> 01:02:12.780
people in the fossil fuel industry but ultimately

01:02:12.780 --> 01:02:15.000
the product that they are producing which is

01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:17.179
now carbon emissions is destroying the planet

01:02:17.179 --> 01:02:20.739
so we have to move away from fossil fuel in a

01:02:20.739 --> 01:02:25.659
very bold way into energy efficiency right now

01:02:25.659 --> 01:02:27.920
in my own state of vermont and all over this

01:02:27.920 --> 01:02:31.960
country there are buildings which are incredibly

01:02:31.960 --> 01:02:34.119
wasteful we don't have the windows we don't have

01:02:34.119 --> 01:02:35.860
the insulation we don't have the roofing the

01:02:35.860 --> 01:02:38.579
doors that we need to keep the buildings warm

01:02:38.579 --> 01:02:43.119
in the winter, and cool in the summer. And we

01:02:43.119 --> 01:02:45.659
can create just an incredible number of jobs

01:02:45.659 --> 01:02:48.820
just retrofitting our buildings. Second of all,

01:02:48.960 --> 01:02:53.099
we need to move very aggressively to sustainable

01:02:53.099 --> 01:02:55.599
energies like wind and solar. In California,

01:02:55.679 --> 01:02:57.880
you're doing a good job with wind. Iowa's doing

01:02:57.880 --> 01:03:00.039
a good job. Texas, doing a good job. We've got

01:03:00.039 --> 01:03:03.599
to do much more. Solar, there is incredible potential

01:03:03.599 --> 01:03:06.039
out there. Prices of solar has dropped in recent

01:03:06.039 --> 01:03:09.059
years. And we have got to not only transform

01:03:09.059 --> 01:03:10.820
the energy system in our own country, we've got

01:03:10.820 --> 01:03:13.820
to lead the world in working with Russia and

01:03:13.820 --> 01:03:16.739
China. Because in this issue, we are in it together.

01:03:17.400 --> 01:03:20.340
And here's my dream, and this may be a utopian

01:03:20.340 --> 01:03:22.940
dream. The world right now is spending a trillion

01:03:22.940 --> 01:03:25.099
and a half dollars on weapons of destruction

01:03:25.099 --> 01:03:27.659
designed to kill each other. And maybe, just

01:03:27.659 --> 01:03:29.699
maybe, if we had a kind of leader, and I hope

01:03:29.699 --> 01:03:32.139
to be that leader, who says to the world, instead

01:03:32.139 --> 01:03:34.019
of spending a trillion and a half dollars killing

01:03:34.019 --> 01:03:36.670
each other, Maybe we'll use those resources to

01:03:36.670 --> 01:03:39.849
transform the global energy system and save the

01:03:39.849 --> 01:03:41.809
planet for our kids and our grandchildren. That's

01:03:41.809 --> 01:03:43.949
the goal that I have. Well, these ideas sound

01:03:43.949 --> 01:03:45.949
great, but in the competitive environment of

01:03:45.949 --> 01:03:48.329
global politics, how would you convince Russia

01:03:48.329 --> 01:03:50.769
or China or any of these countries to do something

01:03:50.769 --> 01:03:53.150
that would put them in some sort of a competitive

01:03:53.150 --> 01:03:57.730
disadvantage? Well, and the answer is… Joe, if

01:03:57.730 --> 01:04:00.769
we do not do that in 50, 100 years, everybody's

01:04:00.769 --> 01:04:02.469
going to be in terrible disadvantage. And look,

01:04:02.630 --> 01:04:05.769
I'm not telling you that tomorrow it's going

01:04:05.769 --> 01:04:08.110
to happen. But you've got to make the case. These

01:04:08.110 --> 01:04:10.909
people, you know, Putin is a dictator. I dislike

01:04:10.909 --> 01:04:14.110
him intensely. You know, Xi in China, very authoritarian,

01:04:14.250 --> 01:04:15.309
so forth and so forth. But they're not crazy

01:04:15.309 --> 01:04:17.989
people. And presumably they have concern about

01:04:17.989 --> 01:04:20.590
their kids and their grandchildren. This is a

01:04:20.590 --> 01:04:23.130
planet. You know, I don't want to become a science

01:04:23.130 --> 01:04:25.130
fiction. You've all seen the movies, the media

01:04:25.130 --> 01:04:27.289
racing toward Earth. We're going to blow up the

01:04:27.289 --> 01:04:29.150
Earth. What do we do? Well, we've got to get

01:04:29.150 --> 01:04:31.329
together. This is, in a sense, what that is about.

01:04:31.369 --> 01:04:36.469
You know what I think about? In 1941, after Pearl

01:04:36.469 --> 01:04:40.090
Harbor, all right, we were faced with a war in

01:04:40.090 --> 01:04:43.630
the east with China, a war in the west in Europe

01:04:43.630 --> 01:04:47.590
with Hitler. Within two years, the United States

01:04:47.590 --> 01:04:51.010
had transformed its economy to address. and win

01:04:51.010 --> 01:04:52.949
the war basically in two or three years by re

01:04:52.949 --> 01:04:55.070
-industrializing America. We can do it. We can

01:04:55.070 --> 01:04:57.210
lead the world. That's what we have to do. So

01:04:57.210 --> 01:04:59.630
in your eyes, we have to look at the economy

01:04:59.630 --> 01:05:02.099
almost as if the same kind of threat. Or, excuse

01:05:02.099 --> 01:05:04.780
me, the environment. It's the same kind of threat

01:05:04.780 --> 01:05:07.460
as Nazi Germany. And act together. Look, if you

01:05:07.460 --> 01:05:09.860
asked the Defense Department, you asked the CIA,

01:05:10.039 --> 01:05:11.739
you asked the defense people all over the world,

01:05:11.780 --> 01:05:13.579
tell us what the great national security threat

01:05:13.579 --> 01:05:15.179
is. You know what it is? It is climate change.

01:05:15.360 --> 01:05:17.039
There's a lot of people, though, that are skeptical

01:05:17.039 --> 01:05:18.599
of this. How would you convince them? I mean,

01:05:18.599 --> 01:05:20.440
this is a big part of the problem, right? There's

01:05:20.440 --> 01:05:22.980
a narrative that you hear from a lot of people

01:05:22.980 --> 01:05:25.679
that, oh, you know, climate change is not a proven

01:05:25.679 --> 01:05:28.380
science and climate change is a hoax. I mean,

01:05:28.380 --> 01:05:29.820
this is something that's repeated over and over

01:05:29.820 --> 01:05:34.469
again. I'm sure some of it has to do with lobbyists

01:05:34.469 --> 01:05:36.849
and some of it has to do with merchants of doubt

01:05:36.849 --> 01:05:40.110
that go out there and seed the world with disinformation

01:05:40.110 --> 01:05:42.750
to try to increase their profits and continue

01:05:42.750 --> 01:05:44.550
the practices that they're currently enjoying.

01:05:45.030 --> 01:05:47.690
You know, Joe, when I'm thinking back, and I

01:05:47.690 --> 01:05:50.190
don't know if all of you listeners can remember

01:05:50.190 --> 01:05:52.980
this because I'm older than most. I can remember

01:05:52.980 --> 01:05:55.719
tobacco and cigarette ads on television. Yes.

01:05:56.059 --> 01:05:58.559
Doc, the guy dressed in a white frock smoking

01:05:58.559 --> 01:06:00.440
away. This is a great cigarette. It'll improve

01:06:00.440 --> 01:06:02.780
your health. They lied. The tobacco industry

01:06:02.780 --> 01:06:04.760
knew exactly what was going on. And the fossil

01:06:04.760 --> 01:06:07.139
fuel industry is lying right now. And the president

01:06:07.139 --> 01:06:09.639
of the United States is either too stupid to

01:06:09.639 --> 01:06:11.679
understand what the scientists are telling us

01:06:11.679 --> 01:06:14.519
or he is lying as well. Climate change. Look,

01:06:14.639 --> 01:06:17.280
I am not the scientist. This is not my idea.

01:06:17.420 --> 01:06:20.539
I listen to the scientists. The debate is long

01:06:20.539 --> 01:06:24.099
over. Climate change is real. My God, look at

01:06:24.099 --> 01:06:25.699
what's happening around the world today. July

01:06:25.699 --> 01:06:29.019
was, I think, the warmest July or warmest month

01:06:29.019 --> 01:06:33.219
in the modern history of the world. The Arctic

01:06:33.219 --> 01:06:37.679
ice is melting. Heat waves in Europe. Just look

01:06:37.679 --> 01:06:41.519
out the window at what's going on. So this is

01:06:41.519 --> 01:06:44.300
not Bernie Sanders talking. This is the scientific

01:06:44.300 --> 01:06:49.489
community. Climate change is real. It will only

01:06:49.489 --> 01:06:52.610
get worse if we do not act boldly to cut carbon

01:06:52.610 --> 01:06:56.469
emissions. Well, we just did an hour, sir, so

01:06:56.469 --> 01:06:58.309
I'm going to let you go because I know you've

01:06:58.309 --> 01:07:00.110
got very important things to do. One last question.

01:07:00.409 --> 01:07:03.989
If you got into the office and you found out

01:07:03.989 --> 01:07:07.250
something about aliens, if you found out something

01:07:07.250 --> 01:07:10.050
about UFOs, would you let us know? Well, I'll

01:07:10.050 --> 01:07:12.309
tell you, my wife would demand that I let you

01:07:12.309 --> 01:07:14.829
know. Is your wife a UFO nut? No, she's not a

01:07:14.829 --> 01:07:17.199
UFO nut, which is Bernie. Going on. Do you have

01:07:17.199 --> 01:07:19.440
any access to Ricketts? You don't have any access?

01:07:19.880 --> 01:07:22.000
I don't. Honestly, I don't. Okay. You'll let

01:07:22.000 --> 01:07:23.619
us know, though? All right. I'll be on the show.

01:07:23.699 --> 01:07:25.780
We'll announce it on the show. Please. Please

01:07:25.780 --> 01:07:27.920
do. Thank you, sir. I appreciate your time. Joe,

01:07:27.960 --> 01:07:28.900
thank you very much. Thank you very much.