"Welcome to this curated educational transcript of the Joe Rogan Experience. In this session, we provide a deep-dive examination of the critical perspectives and historical dialogues presented in Episode #2431 / MMA Show. Our mission is to offer a high-fidelity, searchable research resource for students of cultural history, emerging technology, and global discourse. This transcript has been specifically optimized for academic reference, linguistic study, and archival preservation regarding Combat Sports Evolution, Mixed Martial Arts Professional Dynamics, and Independent Media Performance." Joe Rogan Podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan
Experience. Train by day. Joe Rogan Podcast by
night. All day. All right. What's happening,
brother? Thanks for having us. My pleasure. So,
Jamie, what were you just saying? I stopped you
because it sounds so crazy. Trump said there's
going to be eight to nine title fights at the
White House UFC event and that they're, I guess,
in quotes, withholding. Okay, first of all, there's
only eight weight classes. So how's there going
to be nine title fights? Maybe a BMF fight. Maybe
you add a BMF. Maybe you have all of them in
the BMF. I guess, but that's kind of a crazy
thing. We're going to have 20 title fights. All
the title fights it's ever been. Did he say any
matchups? No, he didn't say who. He just said
they're going to – I'll see if there's even a
tweet about it. I just saw him talking about
it. It was like a, I don't know, press conference
or something. Well, if they don't do Jon Jones
at the White House, I think it would be a travesty.
For sure. They have to. They need to do that.
They have to. Come on. Dana's like, you can't
count on him. You can't fucking count on him.
Come on. Stop. When he wants to, he's going to
make it happen. At the White House? Come on.
Jon Jones versus, let's see, what does it say
here? Donald Trump predicts eight or nine championship
fights. Okay. It would literally have to be every
weight class fighting for the title, which would
be nuts. Everyone's a championship fight. Everyone's
a legendary type of fighter. He's actually holding
back fights right now for six months so he can
do it in the 15th of June. Trump seemingly meaning
14th of June. Yeah. Arena's going to be 5 ,000
or 6 ,000 seats right in the front door of the
White House. 100 ,000 people in the back where
they're putting up eight or ten very big screens.
What kind of fucking security are they going
to have for this? It's got to be insane. Yeah.
Are you trying to get on this? I mean, not really.
Not really? I can't imagine, like you said, the
security, the behind the scenes, how much stuff's
really going to happen. I'm just like... A lot
of weird pressure, too. Probably. Because it's
like all the security and the protocols, all
that extra shit in your mind before you have
to go out there and fight. Yeah, it just seems
like a lot, like a lot more than what it needs
to be. I'm sure it's going to be cool to watch,
you know, kind of like what was the... The Sphere?
Yeah, kind of cool to watch like that, but...
Also, you're fighting outside. Yes. What are
they going to do, put a roof over it? What happens
if it burns? What if it's hot and muggy? That's
going to affect people. I've watched them do
outside fights in Louisiana. Oh, man. Oh, God.
Louisiana, you can cut that air. You've got to
see everyone slipping and sliding. It's so humid.
Oh, that's terrible. Did you ever see that King
of the Cage fight that they did where it was
raining? I've seen the highlight of it, but I
never watched the whole thing. Yeah, it was called
King of the Cage Wet and Wild, and it rained
out. This was in the day when we used to have
to put on fights at Indian casinos. I'm pretty
sure Eddie Bravo was doing the commentary back
then. And it rained out. And so they were like,
what do you guys want to do? And everybody was
like, well, we want to get paid, so I guess we
have to fight. So they fought in the fucking
rain. I mean, it was crazy. How do you do that?
I don't remember what the canvas was made out
of. It might have been slick. It might have been
like a vinyl canvas. It might not have been like
a canvas like the UFC's canvas, which is actual
canvas. It might have been like a jujitsu mat
type situation. That's what it was in Louisiana
with the humidity. I can't imagine the rain.
The rain's got to be crazy. It was pouring. It
was pouring down on people. See if you can find
some highlights of King of the Cage wet and wild.
It's got to be worse than blood on the canvas.
Or blood on the vinyl. Right. It has to be. It
has to be the worst. It just doesn't stop. How
bad are those fucking logos? Do the logos get
problematic when they get wet? On the canvas?
Yeah, in the middle of the octagon. Here it is.
Yeah, look at that. Look at that. That is like,
that looks, it's hard to tell what it actually
is, but it looks like vinyl. Got rubber shoes
on, maybe. Yeah, these guys are fighting with
shoes on, which helps a little. You see, this
was back when there was like zero rules. Your
man's in a poncho. Little poncho. That's hilarious.
Look at these. Oh, these guys are barefoot. Look
at these guys sliding around. This is so crazy.
They throw punches and slip it. This is like
a total like. like, winos in a parking lot of
a liquor store. Imagine everyone didn't know
it was raining. Like, man, you got rocked like
30 times. No, bro, I didn't get rocked. It was
wet. Right. How do you judge? Like, what shots
do damage? This is, like, so silly. Oh, look,
they got a guy come out here with a thing to
slide the water off the side. Yeah, that's not
helping. This is so crazy. They're doing this.
Look at the fighters are helping. The fighters
are moving towels around. That is so ridiculous.
You get an extra 30 seconds break if you wipe
off the canvas. Yeah, right? That's funny. That's
funny. Yeah. So who knows what's going to happen?
I guess they'll probably have to have some sort
of a roof over it. But what if it's like 98 degrees
outside? It's going to be crazy. It's June in
Baltimore or in Maryland, rather, and, you know,
D .C. Yeah. Whatever that is. It's like D .C.
It's not even a state. D .C. gets hot. It gets
hot in the summer. It's going to be crazy. I
always wonder like how much behind the scenes
work goes into like for the sphere, for example,
because obviously they have everything else down
to a science. Maybe redo that. That's going to
be crazy. Abu Dhabi. That's right. We did a live
one outdoor in Abu Dhabi. I remember that. That
was when BJ fought Frankie Edgar. Wow. Yeah.
And Anderson. Damian Maia. Damian Maia, that's
right. That's right. Oh, that's right. That was
like Damian Anderson and Damian had real beef,
and so Anderson was like yelling at him in the
first round, trying to kill him in the first
round, and then he kind of ran out of gas. And
so he just kind of coasted for the remainder
of the fight, and Dana was really pissed because
he just coasted and won a decision. I think Enrique
just put that back out there. I guess, but that
wasn't good, dude. By the way, in Abu Dhabi,
they had these bugs that were flying around the
size of small birds. It was crazy. I was like,
this is... Because, you know, you're in the desert.
Yeah. It's very weird. Very weird having an outdoor
fight in the desert. It's like mosquitoes in
Louisiana, man. They come out of them swamp water,
and I don't know what they're doing, but they're
huge. Well, back in the day, they used to have
fights like that in Vegas. They used to have
boxing matches outside. Caesar's Palace used
to have them outside. See if you can find some
of those. I know... I want to think they had
some good fights outside, like some world championship
fights that were outside Caesars Palace. I think
it would be cool to say you did, but I don't
think I want to do it at this level. If something
does go wrong. You're too close. You're too close.
Brandon Allen, you're knocking at the door, dude.
You're right there. You're right there. It's
crazy. I just saw Chamayev made a post today
saying that he's only going to do one more at
85, and then he's going up. What? Yeah, my wife
sent it to me. He's going to go to 205? That's
what he said. That's crazy. She translated it
for me. It was in Portuguese. Oh, wow. Look at
this. That's Caesar's spouse. Dang. Yeah, that's
crazy. I never knew that. Never. Yeah. Wow. They
had big fights there, too. Look at how big that
is. Oh, my God. That's so crazy. But again, Vegas,
outside, must be so hot. Has to be. That dry
heat is something. That's crazy. Imagine being
all the way in the back of that thing. You ain't
seeing nothing. They don't got no screen up for
the TV or nothing. Who was that right there?
Who was that? Oh, Tommy Hearns fought there.
Roberto Duran. Tommy Hearns and Roberto Duran
was outside? Damn. That's crazy. In 1984. Wow.
That's way before my time. Yes, way before. I
guess they probably didn't even have an arena
back then that could keep those guys in it. I
wonder when they started putting arenas in Vegas.
That's a good question. It probably started for
those big boxing matches. Ask Perplexity. Yeah,
ask Perplexity, our sponsor. When did they start
putting an arena in Vegas? I'm going to say 90.
Because... I think Vegas in the beginning was
just all about gambling. And if there was a show,
it was at a showroom in Vegas. If you went to
see Sinatra or something like that, it was probably
just a couple thousand people. It probably wasn't
that big. It's crazy to see how Vegas has grown.
Before my time, I see pictures. But even since
I fought amateur worlds in Vegas, I wasn't even
old enough to go in the casino. So they had to
walk me around in the Flamingo, I believe. Oh,
that's crazy. You couldn't go in the casino?
I couldn't do nothing. If I walked on the floor,
they were on me. I'm like, bro, I don't. How
old were you? 18. Oh, wow. 17, 18? No, 18, yeah.
18 about to turn 19. And, man, they were on me.
I'm talking about, like, they must have had a
watch on me. I stepped on the floor just to go
across to get, like, to the drink machine. Well,
there was probably a big concern that if you
have underage competitors and that they're wandering
around the casino, they could lose their license.
Yeah, because we stayed at the Link. It was brand
new at the time. And then we walked across to
Flamingo. We fought there every... Every time
until the finals. The finals was in the UFC Expo
in the middle of the Expo, which was cool because
they had, like, the Hall of Fame ceremony going
on. You were there. I seen you. Yeah, yeah. So
it was cool. But, yeah, it's crazy just to see
it from there until now, like, how much it's
growing and changed. Wow. It's pretty crazy.
When did you first start training? How old were
you? 13. And what did you start with? Jiu -jitsu.
I didn't even, like, really mean to, to be honest.
Like, I was playing football. I love football.
my brother came home because he switched schools
and his friend was like, hey, you want to do
jiu -jitsu? And we was watching, you know, UFC
on the weekends. That was like Randy Couture,
Chuck Liddell trilogy. Yeah. All those guys.
So we watched them on the weekends and he asked,
so we went there and looked and I was still playing
football. It was football season. And my dad's
like, you want to try it? I was like, I watched
the class and I was like, dad, I want to do it.
And he's like, okay, we'll use the trial gear.
I was like, dad, I don't want to borrow a gear.
Can you buy me one? My parents didn't have much
money. My dad was just starting to do. okay for
himself at that point he's like if i buy you
this gi i promise you for the rest of the year
you're coming three times a week at least i was
like yes sir so i started and never looked back
a couple months later my brother and my dad joined
me and we did it all together for a little while
then my brother found girls and he went his way
so yeah it's been a long that's derailed a lot
of young prospects it definitely got him it definitely
got him man that life took him elsewhere and
I don't know. Luckily, I stayed. He would have
been better than me, though. He was a lot tougher.
Yeah, but is he the older brother? It's usually
the younger brother that winds up being the real
good fighter. Yeah, he beat me up a lot. That's
the thing. That's the thing. You learn resilience.
You learn how to be the nail. And the older brother
oftentimes is too comfortable being the hammer.
Yeah, but my dad would put him in his place.
So luckily, he was used to being the nail a little
bit, too. My dad's a big man. Um, yeah, man,
life is crazy. So when did you start striking?
Well, my dad boxed when he was younger and his,
his grandfather taught him how to box. And he
was like, uh, he did something, uh, like one,
like a golden gloves in the military or something
back when they had like the, the boxing gloves
that were made with like horse hair. Oh, wow.
Yeah. So, um, he taught my dad to box. And so
my box, my dad boxed in high school. So he was
kind of teaching me a little stuff. here and
there growing up, but you know how it is, man.
Who listens to their father? Now I look back
and I'm like, man, I wish I would have listened
more. And I say stuff that he was like, what'd
I tell you 10 years ago? But I started striking
probably like 15, maybe 15 and a half, somewhere
around there. But it was all grown men back then,
especially like where I came up at. There's no
like beginner's classes or anything like that.
And these guys are 24, 25, 26. I mean, there's
been a couple of times, man, I got hit and I
thought my jaw was broken. I start crying. I
mean, like smack. And it was just like I couldn't
open my mouth. That's the problem with a lot
of boxing gyms in particular is that when new
guys come in, they just beat them up. Yeah, they
did. They beat me up. They don't box you, like
spar you rather. They fight you. And they know
how to fight and you don't know how to fight.
You know, one of my best friends who was with
me, like I started with him, was Kurt Hollibaugh.
And him and Dustin Poirier were the two biggest
where we were from at that time. So I remember
Tim Crater reached out to Kurt. Crazy Tim. Yeah.
And he was like, hey, why don't y 'all come spar?
We got Dustin. I think Dustin was just about
to go to WEC or he was right around there at
that time. So we're like, let's go. Kurt's like,
hey, you want to go? Yeah, let's go. So we go
over there for sparring. And I'm sparring this
guy, man. He had to be like five foot one. Like
he was tiny, short. And Kurt. Goes with Dustin.
And I'm sitting here trying to watch them go
because, I mean, they're throwing. They're fighting.
They're not sparring. And this guy is hitting
me. I'm like, get off me. Like trying to watch.
And the same day, like so we sparred like, I
don't know, four or five rounds. It was nice.
And then I'm only like 14, 15 years old at this
time. And then it was start on the ground in
your guard. And I go with Dustin because everyone
like said my jiu -jitsu was good. It was for
that time, but I was still just a kid. Dude,
he hit me so hard when they said, literally,
when they said go, it was like, boom, right in
my mouth. And I was like, well, I guess this
is what we're doing. I hurried up and grabbed
and tried to sweep and all that kind of stuff.
But, man, I never forget that moment to this
day. Like, last time I trained with Dustin, I
was like, hey, you remember that time you beat
me up? Like, I'm not little no more. You had
three weight classes above him. Yeah. Yeah. So,
like, I see all the guys like that. There's one
guy in particular. If I see him, I told everyone.
I'm whooping his ass. One guy, you don't want
to name him? His name's J -Mart. Oh, okay. Great
guy, nice guy. But training, I never forget the
day he hit me so hard and thought my jaw was
broke. I'm like, and I was little, like now I'm
a grown man. It is so hard to find. like reasonable
sparring it's so hard to find people that are
like willing to not hit you full blast and like
preserve each other you know like hey we're all
in this together you help me I help and if you
can get that my god you progress so much faster
if you're in there just there's something to
be said for going through the fire and understand
what it's like to be in a war with guys but There's
something also to be said for like learning how
to recover and like having more training sessions
and not getting concussions all the time. Yeah.
It's like Sean Jordan was the first to tell me
that was like he came and trained. And obviously,
you know, Sean's huge, super athletic guy, heavyweight,
you know. And I'm talking about I watched him
and this other big man. They were sparring and
it was literally like touching each other. So
I asked him after because everyone else is fighting.
And I'm like, man, what? How come you don't spar
so hard? He looked at me and started laughing.
He's like, Brendan, at this time, I think he
was like 270, somewhere around there. And he's
like, I'm 270 pounds. I fought some of the biggest
guys, like biggest names in the world at the
time. He's like, I know how to fight. If I go
full blast or he goes full blast, one of us is
going to get hurt. And then we're not going to
fight anymore. Like we're not going to make money
for our family. So I always took that in. And
obviously I'm not like. a huge guy like they
were but it's like even like when i was training
in florida i knew when me and robocop go we're
fighting like i know it that guy's scary you
know both both you guys like how the fuck are
you making 185 pounds and you're on a smaller
side in comparison to him yeah dude it's my weight
cuts way harder than his is it yeah he walks
dude surprisingly i asked him before because
he has you know he has a great like physique
right He's a big guy. When I see him, I'm like,
bro, how much do you weigh? He's like, oh, like
205. I said, no way. No way. He's like, I'll
step on the scale right now. Steps on the scale,
206. I was like, no way. I've seen him a little
bit bigger. What is he, got bird bones? That
doesn't even make any sense. I had no idea. I
thought the same thing. But me, I step on the
scale. I mean, right now, I'm probably like 225.
But I haven't done nothing since I fought. But
I stay around 215, 220. And I'm the runt of my
family. So, like, my body wants to get bigger.
But I'm like, uh, I got unfinished business here.
So, yeah. A big 85er. Joe Pfeiffer. Oh, yeah.
He's a huge 85er. He has a hard cut. He's huge.
He has a hard cut. That's why I'm like, when
he gets... Yeah, like, how is that guy... How
is that guy 185? When I stand next to him, I'm
like, how? Same. I can't believe he walks around
205, because that doesn't even make sense. That's
what I've seen him at. Hey, if it's a lot, guys,
strike me down now, because... I think he rigged
that scale. Well, we was all using it. He probably
had his heels on the ground. There he was. I
was super surprised. My boy Tuco was with me.
We was all in the room. I was like, because I
called him out on it. Everyone else wouldn't
say it. I was like, nah. Was it after training?
After training. Okay. And both of you after training.
Yeah. And it wasn't a hard day. That day was
not a hard day. We weren't sweating. It wasn't
like a five, six pound practice day. Right. It
was a pretty chill day into the week. Even if
it was, I'd still be surprised. If he was only
211, I'd be surprised. Dude. But I know when
he had other fights. He was a little bit bigger
because he wanted to be. I didn't understand.
But still, you know, I think, well, the Ritter
probably has to be the biggest 85er. He's enormous.
He was bigger than I expected. And I seen him,
but in the gym I never went close to him because
I rode with him like one time in a quick thing.
It was like a minute long. But still, I was surprised
when we stepped in there. We stood up to each
other at face -offs, and I was expecting him
to be a little bit bigger. I don't know. Maybe
I make everyone bigger in my head. But he was
really long. Even when we stood next to each
other, his hands felt like they touched his knees.
I was like, all right, this is going to be interesting.
Yeah, I was surprised when I first met him in
the UFC. When he first came over, I was like...
Because I saw him fight and won, and I knew he
fought at, I believe he fought at 205 and 85
over there, right? Right. And when I saw him,
I was like, how the fuck are you making 185 pounds?
Like, you look like a light heavyweight. This
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Orange County, California. They were worried
about that when he came over because he never
made a real true 85 because, you know, they have
the hydration, the hydration. So he can weigh
in at 204, but fully hydrated. And they still
know how to finesse that. Like, I just learned,
like, how they finesse that. How they finesse
that. So they drink a whole bunch of water and
then they go. They don't pee. They don't do nothing.
They drink that water and then go cut the weight.
It stays in their stomach. piss it out it's clear
it's all good so they they test that hydration
they test that they're hydrated but they're really
not oh they already went and sweat out a whole
bunch so they drink it they just hold it that's
all the guys do it some guys mess it up but that's
the majority how everyone does it and so they
so you just drink a whole ton of water and just
hold your piss as long as possible yeah they
make sure like they probably drink like two cups
and then they're just gonna hold and then they'll
go cut for like an hour like sweat sweat sweat
sweat sweat and Then they say when they show
up to the hydration, I've heard that from four
people that have done it, and they said, yeah,
bro, I learned from this guy, and I learned from
this guy. I was like, wow, interesting. I knew
there had to be some sort of a catch to it. They
say it's more unhealthy than cutting weight over
here to really make the weight because, I don't
know, I'm not a scientist or a doctor, but my
friends that are into all that stuff are like,
explaining like how it works and i was like man
that's crazy and but he was a guy that never
made a true 186 so they were worried and then
he did and i know like i know for a fact he's
coming i don't know what he came in on my fight
week but i think uh the one before that he he
came in monday i believe at 210 210 the fight
week so i was like shit i come in at 206 and
i'm stressing i'm like ah 203 is like my number
well i think that contributes to the fact that
he gasses Yeah. I think it's just too much of
a strain. And he's talked kind of vaguely, not
real clearly, about problems that he's had with
his health. And, you know, I've got to think
that has to do with weight cuts. Yeah. So many
guys have kidney problems. For sure. For sure.
And it's weird because, like, in the fight with
him, like, I knew, like, in the first round,
to feel, like, obviously adrenaline is flowing
and everything, so everything's intensified,
right? I could feel how tight he was squeezing.
I mean, he was squeezing, like his legs, everything.
He was trying to where I couldn't move. So I
just make little adjustments and make him move
a little bit. He'd punch very rarely, but I was
like, that's impossible. It's impossible for
you to keep this up for 25 minutes. It's impossible.
I know you're not going to do it. So just bide
my time. Plus, I didn't want to gas either because
it was short for me. Short notice, five rounds,
you know. It was a little worrisome, but I knew
he couldn't. I knew we couldn't. And, like, we
did a lot of print for him specifically, and
we saw the Russian that he fought and won. And
I was like, we had our game plan before we watched
it, and then we watched it and was like, here
we go. Yeah. That's why everyone asks me, like,
what's going to happen? I'm going to break him.
He's tough. He is tough. But, you know, like.
Well, if he comes out with that mentality, if
he's trying to go full blast 100 % in the first
round in a five -round fight, like, wee. Right.
Exactly. Nobody can really do that. Yeah. And
like I told the guys, like, cause obviously he
trains where I was training and they all know,
they all know me, you know? So it's like, if
you think you're going to come out here and it,
and he said in his interviews, like I'm a front
runner, I'm not good long, but I approach a three
round fight differently than I approach a five
round fight. So I was like, all right, we'll
see. And it kind of backfired. Well, it was a
big win for you. Thank you. Huge win. You looked
fantastic in that fight. Thank you. You know,
it's like there's just so many talented people
in the division. It's so hard to stand out. And
sometimes, you know, you take a guy like Derrida
who just got done stopping Bo Nickel, and there's
a lot of momentum on his side. He looks real
good. You beat Kevin Holland, submitted him,
looks real good, and then you came along and
stole that momentum. Yeah, it was weird, to be
honest, because, like, when he got there, I was
like, I want to fight him. Just because, like,
things of, like, he fought one of my friends,
which now I guess they're best friends, but...
Who was that? Ong Lan Sen. Oh, okay. He took
both his titles from him. Right. So, like, there
was no animosity, but it was like... I want to
test my, you're a ground guy. Like I'm a ground
guy. Let's, let's see. And then it happened.
He got there to UFC and I was like, I want to
fight him. Like I was obviously, I think at the
time I was like 12 ranked somewhere around there,
but I was like, let him get one, two. And obviously
his name's going to carry him, you know? So that
came and I never forget. I was leaving an LSU
game. I was in the parking lot. My manager called.
And I was like, man, can we just get a fight,
please? I've been asking for like three months.
Like, please, I just want to fight. Because I'm
very like, I get in this mode to where I just
want to fight. And I'll just keep bugging him.
Bugging him. Like, you want me to call Mick?
You want me to call Hunter? And he was like,
no, no, no, no. But anyway, so I stayed on him.
He called me. I was like, hey, what about DeRitter?
He was like, oh, come on, man. He had just fought.
I think he beat Gerald. And he was like. I think
I can make this happen. He texted me back a couple
minutes. Hey, they're good to go. The next day
they called back and they were like, no, they're
not going to get the fight. Like, they don't
want this fight. It's not the right time. I was
like, all right. They're like, what about Fluffy?
I was like, I asked for him two months ago. So
that's when I ended up fighting Fluffy. And it
just so happened he fought the bone nickel, got
all that hype. And I don't know, man. Again,
I was at an LSU practice and they called me and
they were like, hey, my manager called me and
he was like. I just want you to know, Fluffy's
out. I threw your name in the hat, but you're
not the frontrunner. It's Paulo Costa. He's the
frontrunner, but I'm pushing for you because
I just saw Paulo yesterday. I don't know how
he's going to make 85 in four weeks. Yeah, he
needs a lot of time to make weight. He's another
guy at 185. Do you think that it could ever be
possible for guys to just fight without cutting
weight? Wouldn't that be better? It would be
nice. Just wouldn't it be better overall for
everybody? I think so, yeah, for sure. If everybody
just was honest about what they actually weigh.
Let's find out what everybody actually weighs
when you're in shape, when you're ready to fight,
and make a contract to fight at that weight.
Because this whole weight cutting thing is just
legalized cheating. It's so hard, and some guys
are so good at it. Like how about Pereira? Dude,
I don't know how he made 85. He would weigh 226
when he would fight for the 185 -pound title.
Crazy. Doesn't even make any sense. I don't get
how you can put on that much weight. The most
I ever put on was this last fight. I was 207.
Bro, he gained 40 -something pounds. I don't
get it. 40 pounds in a day. Blows my mind. What
does that feel like? What does that do to your
body? I always wonder that because this one was
tough for me. One month, full diet. Usually I
have a couple cheats and ease into the diet.
I'm starting to do now because I'm hoping to
fight in March, so I'm already going to start
being cleaner and stuff. Are you concerned, though,
that you could get another of those last -minute
calls? Do you think like that, to not get too
heavy? Because if somebody calls and says, hey,
the big Paramount card, somebody fell out, it's
January, can you fight? I think where I'm at,
it would have to be an interim title or something
like that. outside of that right now plus like
the reason i i'm so big and i was out like i
had fractures in my foot so i had to you know
did you have fractures in your foot from the
fight or just you had them before the fight oh
god yeah which we didn't know i just knew it
hurt like and to be honest with you like i had
them before the fight before that but i didn't
know like i was just like man it hurts like i
thought it was just like a muscle so i just would
roll it out there gun it like You know, that's
what I would do. How many fractures? They said
they saw three, but they're small. It was, like,
right where, like, the toe meets the base of
your foot. Is it from elbows? I don't know. It
was on my lead foot, too, so I was like, I don't
even know. Like, I don't teep a lot because I'm
scared of, like, stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah,
but I fought with crazy stuff, man. I tore my
whole, like, ACL in half, calves, everything,
when I fought Paul Craig. Did you really? Yeah,
that calf slicer in half. It just blew your ACL
out. Yes. Oh, God. I didn't know. So, like, in
the second round, when I go to throw the punch,
I think it was Dominic Cruz, he was like, oh,
they clipped each other. And they showed the
replay, and he hits my hand. He never hit, like,
my face or anything. But your knee just buckled.
Yeah, it gave. And you can see me reach down
to my knee in that moment. Oh, wow. It was crazy.
So, afterwards, we got that. But I was lucky,
like, when it healed it. It fell to the bone.
Like if they attach like up here, mine just reattached
here. So I just have a little bit more play and
it's still attached. Luckily. Really? Yeah, that's
how it healed. So you never got surgery? Never.
I was very lucky. Wow. Insane. There's like three
different MRIs that show like fine, torn half,
rehealed. So it was a partial tail. No, they
told me in half. It cut in half and then like
fell. And when it fell, I got lucky and it fell
on the bone just lower at a lower point. And
it healed on the bone? And it fused to the bone
itself. What? Yes. How long did it take to do
that? I don't know. The doctor said it could,
it says it looked like it was torn maybe like
a slight tear before and that one finished it.
And the last MRI was probably four or five months
ago because I had to get it for something else.
Fused to the bone. Perfect. You can see it clear
as day. The doctor showed me, I was like. That's
pretty cool. Did you get stem cells or anything
on it? Yeah, I did. I did do a lot of stem cells
through the UFC and stuff. They sent me that.
That probably helped. Did you go down to Tijuana?
No. They sent it to my doctor. Oh, they just
sent it. It was nice. They just sent a whole
bunch. My doctor was like, man, look how much
they sent. I was like, I don't know what it's
supposed to look like. Fill it up. Let's go.
Yeah, let's go. So we injected that. But yeah,
I fight with all crazy stuff because it's like,
I don't know. I don't know how to pull. That's
the thing that people need to realize that watch.
Nobody fights at 100%. Or very few people. Very,
very rarely. And I just don't know how to pull.
I've never pulled from knock on wood. I haven't
pulled on one fight in my career. And I've been
pretty messed up. I think my worst was when I
fought Ihm Evolve, to be honest. Physically,
as far as how my body was, was pretty good. But
I didn't realize how much of a toll, because
I have a thyroid problem. I went years without
getting it checked. And, um, for like a while
I was feeling like real sluggish, real tired.
Um, no sex drive, nothing like I didn't want
to get out of bed. And, um, my weight was just
steady growing up for the first time in my life.
At that point I hit two 20 and I was like, what
is going on? Like I'm still training, I'm eating
clean. And, uh, anyway, I went to a specialist
in Florida. And they tested everything like T3,
T4, and I never had T3 checked ever. And it was
like seven times the normal value, whatever that
was supposed to be. I have it on a paper or whatever.
They gave me that and they were like, hey, man,
I'm going to let you know. I was fighting in
three or four weeks in France. And they were
like, hey, this is going to take a month and
a half, two months to regulate and fully settle
out. I was like, I don't got that kind of time.
Just give me enough to where my weight will come
down because I wasn't losing anything. They were
like, it's going to do that. Don't worry. Within
a week or two, that's going to happen. I was
still pretty tired, but I just kept pushing.
We went to London first, stayed there a week
because it was cheaper for us than going to France
because my friend had family there. Then we went
to France, and then I was still feeling tired.
That was the first camp in my life I couldn't
do more than two and a half rounds, the whole
camp. Really? And Bysinger was the only person
that I had to train with. Greg was hurt. Other
guys were out. So I had Bysinger every day. I
paid him to train with me every day whenever
I wanted, sparring, anything. And I asked him.
I do good for the first round, halfway through
the second. After that, I was dead, like dead.
And I'm still hitting my runs, my lifts, every
training session. I'm doing everything normal.
But, man, it was terrible. So the fight comes.
And the commission kind of like did super weird
stuff. Like I made weight. And they're like,
oh, you're getting drug tested. I'm like, okay,
no problem. They're like, no, no, no. You're
going to get drug tested now. Not the night of
the fight like normal. I was like, what? I was
like, I literally just cut weight. Like I don't
got to pee. I'm just now drinking fluid. They're
like, doesn't matter. You can go to your room.
I was like, all right. I'll wait for a couple
minutes. I waited for like 10 minutes. I was
like, hey, man, I'm just going to go to my room,
try to sleep. And they were like. No, we don't
have enough people. You need to stay here. I
stayed there for two hours. Finally, I peed,
just barely. Peed, and they did two vials of
blood. They got mad because they did that one
they put on and press, the gravity one, and they
couldn't get enough. Because you're dehydrated.
Exactly. Do you think they were fucking with
you because you were fighting in France against
a French guy? It was me and Moikano. Us, two,
and one other person, American. Was that when
Moikano was fighting Benoit Saint -Denis? Yes,
sir. He bitched about the same thing, but somehow
he had to - They were fucking with you guys.
Them two were up sleeping in their room, chilling.
Oh, that's so - But it's not an excuse. It does
not have to be an excuse. That's so dirty. It
was frustrating, but that's why when - I still
think Ian Revolve's a cool guy. He's deserved
his title shot. I think he's fully earned it.
Don't get me wrong. But I want to fight him again
where it's like, I sparred him a month after
that. He was at the gym, and I showed up at the
gym, and we sparred. We had a good time. But
I still think he's a nice guy. I think he deserved
his spot. But I just want to fight him where
everything's equal. And like you said, we're
not going to come in 100%. He's not. I'm not.
Fine. I don't care if I got a messed up hand,
foot, whatever. But just an equal plate. Well,
it just sounds like you were compromised. Look,
a good example of that was Piotr Jan in his first
fight with Murab. Man, he looked great this weekend.
Fuck! What a master class. He looked great. I
was so surprised. When you're going to fight
a guy like Merab, that is the master class. You
should put on a clinic. Honestly, I didn't think
he was going to be able to do that for five rounds.
I thought he'd have one, maybe two. Maybe Max,
too, and I thought Marab was just going to do
what Marab does. I was so wrong. Bro, his training
camp must have been hell. Had to. Had to be hell.
Had to. I mean, he must have done something.
I mean, it looked like it. I saw some videos
of it. It looked like he was doing some wild
strength and conditioning and plyometrics, and
he knew what he was in for. That's the thing.
If you're going to fight a guy like Marab, it's
like you know what the mountain is. You ready
to climb it? For sure. And the first time they
fought, apparently he had a fucked up right hand.
That's what I heard. And he couldn't grapple
with it and he couldn't throw punches with it.
So I rewatched the fight after he said that.
I was like, oh, he's barely using it. Like barely
using his right hand. Makes sense, right? Totally
makes sense. And then also psychologically, if
you only got one hand, everything, now you have
to think. Right. You can't really throw combinations.
You have to think. You want to know how tough
Uriah Faber is? Uriah Faber, when he fought Mike
Brown, he broke both hands. Both hands. I remember
that fight. And he was throwing elbows. Both
hands. He was one of my favorite fighters. He
was a guy that I wanted to be just like. You
could ask my dad. He'll laugh to this day. I
was like, Dad. I don't want to be like, my dad's
tall. Everyone's tall. I don't want to be tall.
I want to be like him. He was like, what? Because
that was the fight. He was a beast. He was a
beast back in the day. You know, by the time
he was fighting in the UFC, I kind of think he
had had some of his best fights already. Like
in the WEC days. Dude, amazing fights. Oh, he
was a killer. I still remember the Mike Brown
coming out party. Jose Aldo. That was another
example of how tough he is. When he fought Jose
Aldo and Jose Aldo killed his leg, dude, killed
his leg. It is the worst after fight leg I've
ever seen in my life. Other than Austin Hubbard.
You ever see Austin Hubbard? He got compartment
syndrome and had to have his whole leg sliced
open. What? From the top to the bottom to alleviate
pressure and drain some of the fluids. No way.
It's the nastiest injury I've ever seen. I'm
going to ask him. Google, excuse me, look up
Austin Hubbard images of, I forget the fight.
Oh, there it is. Look at his leg. That black
thing, that's his leg open. No way. Yeah, that's
his tissue. Oh my days. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Look at that. Oh my gosh. How insane is that?
Dude, he trains in Chicago with me. Oh, when
I ask him. Look at that image. How fucking insane
is that image? That's his tissue underneath there,
man. Oh, my. Look, you have to like mature content.
You have to click a link in Instagram to be able
to see it. Holy cow. How nuts is that, man? Dude,
that's gnarly. So there's a drain, that tube
that you're seeing right there. What that is
attached to is that drain that's letting liquid
drip out of his leg. So compartment syndrome
is so bad. Sometimes people, when they don't
get it treated, they have to get their leg amputated.
Really? Oh, yeah. So that was just from leg kicks
from a fight? Just from leg kicks from a fight.
Wow. I'm trying to remember who he fought. Jesus.
Can we find out who he fought? It was a year
ago. Oh, more than a year ago. This picture was
325 weeks ago. Yeah, but the fight was more than
a year ago. It was quite a while ago. But what?
Is it like a big bruise? Well, it says 325 weeks
ago. Oh, 300, yeah. 325 weeks ago, yeah. So it
was quite a while ago. See if you found out who
you fought. Boy, it's just like your leg just
stays bruised and swollen. Not just bruised.
It's like your tissue breaks down. It fills up
with fluid. Damn. Yeah, and then also what happens,
I guess, when you get that much damage in your
tissue is like your whole body has to process
all of that. Kyle. I don't remember that. So
it was UFC Vancouver. Elevator. Passed out on
an elevator. Had to be rushed to the hospital.
That is crazy. I never knew that. Yeah. See him
at the gym all the time. He's a nice guy, too.
So they had to cut his leg open to reduce the
pressure. So that's what that image is. Damn.
Nuts. That is crazy. Yeah. That was nuts. And
then Uriah's leg, honestly, in the fight, looked
worse than that. I mean, Uriah might have had
compartment syndrome and didn't get it. Because
I know he spent a lot of time in hyperbaric chambers
after the fight. I want to try that. It's great.
I want to try that. It's really amazing. If you
have an aura ring and you go into the hyperbaric
chamber, it will tell you that you're recovered
more. Really? Yeah, than a normal day. Yeah.
Oh, you have a very high level of recovery today.
Yeah. I'm going to try that for sure. Oh, it's
legit. Yeah. All my friends have been like, like
Jared Gordon, like got one for one of his fights
and he's telling me like how different it makes
him feel and stuff. Like for me, as far as I
go, it's like, I just started like really like
using more supplements. I think the deal that
Thorne made with UFC really helped me. Because,
like, I started using there. And what really
helped is I was always scared to go on creatine
because, like, growing up, my dad would get so
big. And he would, like, back in the day, they'd
have, like, all these different things. Like,
oh, if you use too much creatine, it's bad for
you, bad for your kidneys or whatever. Turns
out all that's bullshit. Exactly. And creatine
is fantastic for you. And that's been, like,
the main thing. Like, I can really feel, like,
how different my body recovers. Like, how more.
almost energized in a way. I wake up and when
I go to lift and stuff, I feel way better. What's
even great for your mind? Creatine is fantastic
just for cognitive support. I need everything
for that. I've been getting hit in the head since
I was 13 years old. Sometimes it don't function
properly. It's funny. Me and my wife were just
joking the other day. I was like, babe, you do
that on purpose, don't you? She's like, what?
I was like, you try to use memory against me.
You'll wait until I forget something. Then you'll
be like, oh, remember you said this? I'm like,
I didn't say that. I have to die on that hill
because it's like, I don't remember, but I don't
tell her that. I'm just like, no, I didn't. I
know I didn't. That was a great relationship
that's helped. UFC's made a lot of good partnerships
that's helped the athletes, but for me personally,
the Thorne relationship. Yeah, Thorne makes great
stuff. Yeah, and they're so tested. If you get
in a hyperbaric chamber, it'll help your memory
as well. Hyperbaric chamber is just good for
overall recovery for everything. There was even
a study out of Jerusalem that shows that Langston's
telomeres, they did this process where they had...
You took 60 sessions of 90 minutes over the course
of 90 days. So 60 hour and a half sessions over
the course of 90 days, and it showed a length
in people's telomeres. Really? Yeah, that was
equal to a 20 -age difference. So, yeah, 20 -year
age difference. So it's like your telomeres as
you get older, that's like one of the clear marks
of biological aging is how long your telomeres
are. That's good to know. Yeah. It indicates,
you know, like as you get older, they shrink.
And there's a few things that they've shown that
will increase telomeres, but nothing as dramatically
that I've ever heard other than the hyperbaric
chamber. That was probably the best one I've
ever heard of. Yeah. Man, I've been like trying
to learn more about recovery because I'm kind
of like. How old are you now? I'll be 30 in a
couple weeks. Yeah, that's when you got to start
thinking about it. When you're 22, you're just
a wild man. You wake up in the morning with rock
-hard boners. Like, everything's fine. You just
show up to training. You don't even stretch.
Now I'm like, wait a minute, guys. Wait a minute.
The thing is, even if you're 22, you should stretch.
That's just youthful ignorance. God, there's
so many guys that can't. I remember I was talking
to him. I don't want to say his name because
he's a good guy. But he's like a world -class
MMA fighter, and I was trying to show him something.
We were talking about, like, guard technique.
And he's like, I can't, and I'm not flexible.
I can't get my leg like that. And I go, what
do you mean you're not flexible? I go, why aren't
you flexible? He goes, I don't stretch. I go,
how do you not stretch? You're a world -class
fighter who tries to kick people in the head,
and you don't stretch? That's so crazy. He's
like, it's boring. I'm like, okay. A lot of things
are boring. Like, that you don't stretch is so
crazy. Because, like, anytime someone says, I'm
not flexible, I'm like, how do you know? Right.
You know, like you don't know if you're flexible
until you start stretching for a long fucking
time. Right. You can get flexible. It's like,
I don't have any cardio. Well, you can get cardio.
That's a choice. Fucking work, get, do cardio
and you'll have cardio. This is crazy. Yeah,
but you're really flexible though. Yeah, but
it's like I'd never stopped, but I started when
I was little. I developed flexibility while my
body was still maturing, which is very fortunate
because you're not stiff yet. It's like you can
get flexible. But I'm 58 years old. It's not
easy to stay flexible. I just keep fucking stretching.
I didn't know you were 58. I'm old as shit, dude.
I didn't know that. I thought you were younger
than that. You're older than my dad. I'm old,
dude. You're in good shape, though. Thank you.
I keep up. I'm scared of death. I'm not scared
of death. Death is inevitable. What I'm scared
of is... Being feeble, like where you can't do
things anymore. You can't go on a hike. You can't
use your body. Like I work out just as hard now
as I did when I was 30. I make my wife always
worried because I'm like, I don't know. I don't
honestly know if I mean it or not. I'm like,
I don't want to be 80 years old. Like, for instance,
like. You kind of not say things like that around
ladies sometimes. They don't like you. She's
like, no, don't say that. I need you. We're a
team. And I'm like, babe, look what I do for
a living. Look what I've done. My body's not
like that. I don't know. Maybe I say that, but
then I get out of working out for like, I haven't
worked out in like two months. And I'm like,
I'm itching like a freaking fiend. I'm like.
So when you say I haven't worked out, you don't
do anything for two months? I haven't done anything.
I went in the gym twice. I went in the gym twice.
I did one run. In one lift. And then we found
out my foot had fractures and they sent me this
foot boot. And then the doctor was like, you
don't have to wear that, but don't do anything
that puts a lot of pressure on your foot. Then
I've been traveling. At the end of the year,
I travel a lot going hunting and stuff. Like
your meat eater thing. I love that kind of stuff.
I'm not on that big of a scale and that nice
of animals. I'm just a simple whitetail kind
of guy. I love hunting whitetails. I love it.
I got a little property in Illinois. Oh, that's
great, man. So I can't believe you could take
a whole couple of months off with nothing. Just
don't do nothing. Crazy, right? Yeah. I'm very
blessed. Well, it's probably smart. It's probably
smart to do. It's good and bad. I've heard a
few people do that. It's good and bad. So, like,
I only do it this much at the end of the year
because it's hunting season and holidays and
my kids' birthdays. You know, kind of my kids'
birthdays are right now or back to, well, shit,
I guess all the time. They're back to back to
back. So it's like. All right, we'll do that.
We travel. But it's only end of the year. Usually
I'll take a couple weeks off, maybe a month max,
depending on my injuries after a fight. But then
I'm back at it. But it's hard for me at home.
I'm a full -time dad and a full -time husband
at home right now. I've got so many kids, you
know. I'm away for so long. How many kids do
you have? I'm about to have five. Wow. Yeah.
Five and you're not even 30 yet. Yes, sir. I
have two with my ex. I'm about to have two with
my current wife, and she has a son from her previous
stepson. Wow. Yeah. And he's 14. My daughter's
just turned six and four. My son's about to turn
one, and then we'll have another one in about
a month and a half. So you've got a lot of work
to do. Yeah, but it's nice. It's hard right now.
Kids have schedules, and now my little girls
do jiu -jitsu. My stepson was playing football
for the first time this year, and he's a basketball
player because my wife was a pro basketball player.
So he's always got something going on. But at
my new house that I'm working to build, I have,
like, two gyms, full gyms. So, like, I don't
have to leave. Oh, that's nice. I can bring people
in to train. I have my full cage that I used
to have for my promotion. Well, even if you only
realize, oh, I only have 40 minutes before I
have to leave. But I can get a half -hour workout
on real quick. And you can really burn it out
for a half an hour just to keep the machine oiled.
Exactly. But, you know, the argument about taking
time off, it does reset the brain. Like, you
know who used to do that? I know he's not a fighter.
Ronnie Coleman. Ronnie Coleman is crazy as he
used to lift when he was Mr. Olympia, and he
was one of the heaviest lifters of all time.
He's a freak. He's a freak. Ronnie, when he would
get done with Mr. Olympia, he would be like,
I'm not doing shit. He wouldn't do anything for
a couple months. No training at all. And they'd
be like, nothing at all? He'd go, nope, nothing,
nothing. He goes, I got to reset. Got to reset.
But imagine being so driven that you could train
the way that guy trained. And yet so wise that
you're like, I'll get it back. Let me just like,
let me just chill. Let me just chill. And it
wasn't like it turned him into a lazy person.
Like that's what everyone's afraid of. Oh, I'm
going to lose this momentum. I'm doing so good.
Everything's going so great. I'm working so hard.
I want to keep working hard. Because we've all
had, if you will live a life. you're going to
have ups and you're going to have downs. And
like you were going through your thyroid issue,
there's going to be times where you don't have
a lot of energy. So when you're feeling good,
you want to keep going, right? And this guy gets
to Mr. Olympia, but he has the wisdom to go,
you know what? I can get that back right now.
Let's just not do shit and let this mind recover.
Let this stress. Just go away. Let it slip out
of my life. That's what I try, man. I kind of
learned because I always have traveled for camp
since I was probably three or four and one as
a pro. Three or four fights in as a pro, I was
traveling. I was going to Rufus Sport for a long
time. I stayed there for a long time. Then I
went to Florida for a long time, and now I'm
at Chicago. What gym are you on now? Valley Flow
and War Room with Bilal Muhammad. Bilal, yeah.
And that's been a great change. Yeah, man, he's
so good. Both the brother. He got a little brother.
Oh, really? He's a stud. He's a stud. I believe
it if he comes out of that family. Bilal Muhammad
is a beast. He's a stud. The little brother is
a stud. He helped me for Marvin's fight, I think.
And then Nacho helped me a little bit for this
one, this last one. How did you choose going
to Chicago? I've known Bilal since Rufus Sport.
And obviously we stayed in contact. You know,
when we see each other, it's like we never, you
know, haven't seen each other. And he's always
told me, like, bro, just come down. Just come
check it out. You don't have to stay or nothing.
Like, stay at my house, but you don't have to
move here or nothing. Just come check it out.
So I watched his rise and what he does and his
work ethic and his team. And after the fluffy
loss, like, I just, I kind of sat back, had some
conversations with. people that are really close
to me, and explaining, like, what was going on
with me, like, mentally and where I felt. And
Bilal was one of the people I talked to, and
he's like, I know what the problem is. And everyone
that I talked to, which wasn't a lot, they all
said exactly the same thing. So I was like, B,
can I come train with you? What was the problem?
Complacency. I know, like, who I can train with
and not go hard. I'm the coach of my own thing.
Like, I'm running my whole camp, basically. Oh,
you were running your whole camp? Basically.
You go to Wagner's for jiu -jitsu? Yeah, I'd
go to Wagner's for jiu -jitsu. I'd be at Kill
Cliff, but I'd be in the corner doing my thing
because we had the Russian coach over here teaching
some crazy stuff that don't make no sense. What
do you mean? They'd be teaching some stuff off
the wall that would never work. Really? Yeah,
but the Russian kids that were in the classes,
they got young guys like Ansar, Nikita, Bysangor.
He wasn't even there. Those guys, they were like...
come over here, let's do something else. They
have real MMA knowledge because they fight and
they've learned from all the guys from where
they're from. So who are these Russian coaches
that are teaching wild shit? There was just one,
man. You don't have to say his name. Yeah, he's
not there no more. But he was a legit coach?
He never fought. Okay, did he fight in anything?
Never. Kickboxing? Nope. Nothing? I don't know
if he even competed in wrestling, to be honest
with you, ever. I don't know. Okay, does he spar
with people? Nope. How old is he? I would say
in his 30s, I would say. What? Really? I would
say, yeah, I would guess. And he's a coach? But
he's coaching unorthodox stuff? Like what kind
of stuff? Like stuff against the wall, but it
was like, for instance, I don't remember what
it was. It was against the wall. I was going
with my friend AJ, Aaron Jeffries, and it was
some takedown off the wall, right? AJ couldn't
get it. I was like, bro, this, and I don't say
it out loud because I don't want no problems,
you know? Right. I'm going to just go with the
flow and mind my business. I've been doing it
long enough to where it's like you realize this
move's probably not going to work for my body
type or my game, but I'll try it. And so anyway,
he was doing it, and AJ's like, bro, I don't
get it. I was like, yeah, because this shit ain't
going to work, bro. He was like, what? I was
like, it's not going to work. I'm telling you.
So he calls the coach over, and he was like,
how can you do? The guy looks at me. He goes,
he's telling him. Then he looks at me and goes,
stop it. Me? He's like, yeah. I was like, bet.
He tries to do it. I literally grab his wrist,
grab his head, and throw him. Boom. Is he your
size? He's bigger than me. Oh, wow. Throw him.
And so it didn't work? No. He's like, let me
try one more time. Let's go full speed. I said,
shit, that was full speed. Do the exact same
thing, but do it the other way now. Boom. Throw
him again. AJ looks at me. He says, the coach
says something. I was like, then I get agitated,
right? Then I'm like, man, that's because this
shit ain't going to work. I told y 'all. Y 'all
don't listen to me. I just walked off. Oh, that's
not good vibes. You know? So I just walk off.
And I was like, I ain't taking this damn class
no more. So how did this guy become a coach there?
Sticking around and translating. Oh, no. Oh,
there's those weird guys like that. I'm not saying
that this guy's like that, but there are some
weird guys like that become parasitic. They're
like friends with a guy who's a really good fighter,
and then they're always there, and then they
want to be a part of the team somehow, and then
they start contributing. Or they start maybe
running conditioning drills or something. You're
like, why is this guy running conditioning drills?
That's exactly how it went. That's the worst.
Exactly how it went. Literally. There's weird
parasitic relationships in any elite like thing,
whether it's sports. I see it in comedy. There's
some comedians that have weird parasitic friends
that wind up, you know, becoming a producer on
their thing. And there's just some guy who just,
just like, like a lamprey clinging to the bottom
of a shark. It got weird for a little while,
especially at the end. It did. Like when I was
still there with that whole thing, because even
some of the other coaches started to catch on
because at Kill Cliff, Sometimes we'd have a
lot of guys fighting all over the place, so coaches
would be gone, and you'd try to figure that situation
out, so he'd step in and try to help. It just
got weird. But again, I'm not the kind of person
to really cause a conflict. I'd rather just,
for instance, if you're causing some type of
energy with me, I'm going to just move over here
and just stay out your way. That's smart. The
world needs more people like you. Well, my younger
self would have, I want a conflict. I'm going
to show you. Right, of course. But as you got
wiser. Yeah. And you realize like, what's the,
also, you're an elite professional mixed martial
arts fighter. You ain't got shit to prove to
somebody. That's kind of how I feel now. I see
some of these younger kids. I see some of these
younger kids now and I'm just like, I'm going
to just stay over here. It gets people hurt.
It ruins your life. And that's what it can be
for me. I don't want that to happen because like.
i have kids i have a wife i have a good life
i live very nice like as far as like my lifestyle
like i'm here with you right now you know also
it's fucking pointless I've seen bar fights where,
you know, there's young guys and they just, like,
see an opportunity. They want to prove something.
And I'm like, I just want to tell them, like,
hey, man, one day you're going to be 35. You're
going to be looking back on this day. And maybe
it's the day you got stabbed. Maybe it's the
day you got shot. You know, maybe it's the day
you got knocked the fuck out and your head bounced
off the concrete and you'll never be the same
person again. Yeah, exactly what you said. It's
just not worth it. You know Kevin James, the
Canadian? Yeah, he used to come to the gym. Oh,
that's awesome. He trains a lot. Good friend
of mine. Been friends of mine for 30 years. When
I first met him, he told me a story of when he
was bouncing. When he was bouncing in a bar in
Long Island, one of his friends there was a bouncer,
and some drunk kid was starting shit, and he
knocked this kid out, and the kid fell down and
hit his head and died. And he wound up doing
time. He went to jail for manslaughter. One of
my best friends got stabbed in the face in New
Orleans because he didn't even know he was talking
to this dude's chick, and he didn't know. Right.
He didn't know. She didn't say nothing. She came
up to him. He was just at the bar. Oh, Jesus
Christ. Dude came and stabbed him in the face,
broke his jaw, stabbed him and ran. He has a
nice scar. He's older now, so it kind of went
away through his beard, but wired his jaw shut.
He was messed up for a while in the face. This
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And someone trying to stab you in the face is
easily trying to stab you in the neck. Exactly.
Yeah, you just got lucky. You just got lucky
to hit that jaw and not your fucking carotid
artery. Oh, my God. I watched a video of these
guys in London, and they're yelling at each other
and squaring off each other back and forth and
back and forth, and then finally they get out
of it, and one guy just pulls out a fucking knife
and slices this dude's neck, and this dude is
just... squirting out of his neck, and he tries
to fight for a second, then he just gets woozy,
and he's just squirting as he goes down. I don't
know what happened. I'm assuming he died, because
I'm looking at the amount of blood loss. If someone
didn't jump on that and compress it, and even
if you did, the carotid artery is like such a
significant amount of blood that's going through
there, depending on, I guess, the damage. Dude,
I think I had like... So stupid. I've always
heard the story. Obviously, you know how stories
are, but... I've heard from a couple different
people. I have like a great uncle somewhere along
the line. He passed away before I was alive.
He was in a bar. I know right where the place
is. The building's still there to this day. He
was in the bar. He was sitting down having some
drinks with a friend. I don't know the relationship
between him and the guy. The guy walked up behind
him, slit his throat. Oh, God. He missed the
carotid arteries, both of them, by like not even
a quarter of an inch. Like not even an eighth
of an inch. He missed both of them. So it was
just here. Oh, shit. He chased the guy out. Almost
beat him to death and then almost died because
he couldn't breathe like oh But almost beat the
guy to death almost almost died. So two people
almost died nightclubs are so bad I've never
been a club. I hate, like, a group of people,
I hate it. I get very offsetting. There's too
many people on coke. There's too many people
that are stupid. There's too many people that
want to, like, bro, I fucking see red. And, you
know, there's too many dummies. When I was a
kid, when I was 21 years old, I was at a bar,
and I watched this guy hit a guy in the face
with a Heineken bottle. Out of nowhere, over
nothing. I was standing by the bar. And there's
just two guys. They were as close as Jamie is
to me. And they were talking to each other like
loud voices, but nothing crazy, like no physical
shit. And this guy just takes a Heineken bottle
off the ball and smashes it on his face. And
there was blood everywhere. This guy was just
just leaking all over his face. I was like, the
guy's face is destroyed for the rest of his life
over. Literally nothing. Literally nothing. It's
crazy, man. There's too many people out there
that are fucking stupid, man. And you get sucked
into their gravity. You know, you're like the
guys that, like, if they know who you are, they'll
be like, oh, you can fight? I can shoot. I'm
like... All right, so can I. Congratulations,
man. Let's not fight each other or shoot each
other. Hi, my name is Brendan. That's my thing
now. I'm like, bro, I don't want to fight or
shoot. You just leave me alone and leave my family
alone. We're good, bro. I don't want no problems
with nobody. Well, the problem is there's too
many people out there that haven't proven themselves.
They don't have a thing in their life that gives
them a challenge all the time where they're proving
themselves. So every time they go out, they're
trying to prove themselves. Every time they go
out, they're trying to puff their chest out and
be Billy Badass. It's so dangerous. And here's
where you don't see that. Train fighters. Dude,
I used to bounce at a little, like something
small. And I needed the money, obviously. And
I will never forget, man. This little dude, he
had to be like this tall, short and fat. I don't
know how tipsy he was. I don't know, right? But
all the guys know that I was fighting. I was
LFA at the time. And they always told me, hey,
man. Don't worry about hitting nobody. If someone
swings at you, I got you. Or just hit them and
say, I did it. And I was like, I'm good, bro.
I'm good. I just smile. So it doesn't get you
in trouble? Yeah, they were super cool, right?
Who knows if that would have really been how
it went. I don't know, you know, but anyway.
If you really fucked somebody up and there was
a lawsuit, I guarantee you they would have dropped
your name. Dude, there was a bartender there.
He freaking, I watched it with my own two eyes
in the front. This dude and him got into it.
The guy slipped because he pushed him and he
slipped. It was a little wet. Dude, he soccer
kicked him so hard in the face. So hard. I was
like, he got arrested for that. Oh, God. But
that little kid, he swung at me. And I don't
even know if he hit me or hit my hand. He hit
something, right? And I'm laughing. I'm laughing.
I'm like, I couldn't believe it. He had that
cocaine courage, son. He must have. I'm laughing.
I'm literally doing this because I was going
to stick him with the right. He was so little.
That's so crazy. No way. And how I saw the punch
come, I was like, don't do it. There are some
people out there that have no idea how to fight,
and yet they still try to fight. They have no
weapon. They don't have a good punch. They don't
have a background in wrestling. They don't have
a damn thing. And yet they'll still decide they
want to fight someone and just hope in today's
day and age. How can you hope that people don't
know how to fight? I think if you run into 10
guys, one of them can fight today. It's probably
the most in human history in terms other than
like Spartan days, most in human history. And
even back then, how good was their technique?
Exactly. You know what I'm saying? It's crazy.
They probably didn't even know about calf kicks.
It's like my dad grew up boxing, right? So my
dad, he would always tell me like growing up,
he was a little bitch. He was like, I used to
get my ass kicked until he had. He had to move
in with his grandfather. His grandfather, World
War II vet, shot twice, grew up boxing. Probably
the most rugged man that you'll ever meet. I
met him once before he passed away. His voice
was so gruff, like he's a man's man, you know,
like one of those. Doesn't say nothing, really.
And so he raised my dad. And he used to step
outside. like kind of mess with him, box. Like
he put him in boxing, but he knocked my dad out
one time. And my dad's like, you know, well,
man, come on, let's test it. Stepped on his foot
and slept him. And, uh, but anyway, so like when
he was in high school, that's a fucked up thing
to do to your kid. Dude, he said, my dad said
he didn't care about nothing. My dad said he
literally watched his smash his finger flat with
a hammer. The nerves flew out. Like they were
still attached. They flew out. Oh my God. Hit
his head on, uh, throwing, uh, bales of hay in
the loft. Smoked his head on a railroad spike
that was in the wood. Cracked his skull. He didn't
know till two days later. They said if he would
have waited a couple like 12 more hours He would
have been dead cuz all the swelling on his brain
She had to cut his brain his skull off to let
the fluid come out Oh crazy old just stubborn
old man, you know That's crazy to do to your
grandson, though, sleeping like that. Dude, my
dad said we were messing around. He's like, all
right, quit messing with me. He always told him
that. Leave me alone. He kept on, kept on. He
stepped on his foot, and my dad said, quit stepping.
He said that's all he remembers. Oh, wow. Old
school trick. Slept in. My dad said when he woke
up, he had the worst migraine, and he was on
the porch drinking a thing, I think tea. And
he was like, hey, get your ass up and go clean
the dog pen. Get to work. Those dudes who came
up through World War II, that's a different kind
of human being. Yeah, you know, so it's like,
that's just kind of like how my dad was. So,
like, when he got to high school, like, he wasn't
the kind to go look for trouble, but he was the
kind of person, like, my dad told me as well,
like, you stick up for the people that can't
stick up for themselves. Yeah. Or if someone
fucks with you, like, do what you got to do.
Just don't. Like nowadays, he's like, don't put
your hands, like don't throw a punch at them
first unless they get an arm breach. Then you
throw a punch first. Don't ever let someone hit
you. Well, kind of like you too. You could just
choke somebody. Yeah, now, but it's like. You
really have to hurt them. You could just put
them to sleep. And that's more, I'm a good hugger.
So it's like, I prefer that. But my dad's like
mean, man. Like he's different. Like he was in
the military and he boxed when he was overseas
for like 75 bucks because he'd send all his money
home to us. So it's like, like. I don't know,
like, people don't know. Different kinds of human
beings, man. I come from something, like, that's
what I feel, like, when I fight. Like, I'm different.
Like, I honestly, I was telling myself that in
the Marvin fight in between rounds, like, going
into the third. Because my dad and my brother
were both there in attendance for the first time.
Like, my brother hadn't been in any of my fights
since probably my second pro fight because of
his injury. And so, like, I watched my buddy
Costello fight for the PFL belt. And he said
after the fight, like, he said word for word,
he's like, I was. I was raised by a warrior.
He raised two warriors. I'm a fucking warrior.
And he's like, that's, that's what I told myself.
And so like that stuck in my head till the fight,
like till my fight. So like in the third round,
like everyone was like, Oh, he falls off in the
third. And that was something like my corner
was cause that was my first time in Chicago.
So like Horacio looked at me in between rounds
and he was like, Hey, let's go. Like, let's,
let's restart it. He said something else. And
I was like, I'm good. Just get out of the way.
Like, you know, that's it's kind of one of those
moments where it's like you're living in the
moment. But I don't know. Well, I think just
having a coach is really important. It's really
important, especially having an elite coach,
having a coach that's really on top of it. You
know, yeah, I guess a safe side. You know, Faraz
Ahabi, Duke Rufus, having someone who's like.
really on it, really watching you, really knows
what you need, really knows when you need to
back off. Because the fact that you did so well
and that you were coaching yourself is kind of
fucking crazy. Well, when I say... Well, you
had coaches. Yeah, exactly. But you didn't have
a main coach. Yes, sir. Exactly. That's the difference.
So for people that don't know, okay, if you listen
to this and you're just interested in MMA, generally
there's a striking coach. Usually they have some
sort of a Muay Thai or kickboxing background.
You generally have wrestling coaches. You generally
have jiu -jitsu coaches. And if you're a really
good gym, you got one guy who knows how to put
it all together. Those are the maestros. Those
are the guys who are like conducting the entire
orchestra. And they know you. And if a good guy
knowing his fighter is like an artist, and I
think you can only have a certain amount of people
that you're working really closely with because
it's a very involved and intensive gym. job like
eric nixick like that's a guy he gets down into
the nitty -gritty of every fucking thing you
guys are he's watching you he knows what you
need he knows what you don't need you know it's
like it's also you got a guy who could just say
Push it off to him. He knows what to do. He's
going to give you game plans in between rounds.
Okay, this is working, but we need more of this.
He does this all the time. The reason why he's
getting away with it is because of that. Get
it in your head. Go out there. When I hear guys
and the guys losing and they get no technical
advice and they start getting, go fuck him up.
You got to fuck him up. You got to put hands
on him. And I'm like, oh my God, tell him what
to do. He knows how to fight. Get on top. Get
on top. Tell them what to do. Stand up. And I
get it. You only have a minute. I get it. And
I get it. Everybody's panicking if things are
going wrong. I get it. But my God. It's been
different. Having a good coach. Having like a
farasa hobby type dude in your corner who just
really understands what you need to do. So fucking
important. It's been one of the best changes
that I have because I ain't going to lie. I'm
not the easiest person to deal with. I like to
be very in control of things that I can control.
and i know myself like i i've done a lot i've
been around a lot so i like i know like hey man
like i'm feeling it today like my body's kind
of done no no no no go go go 100 you know do
you monitor all your shit do you monitor your
resting heart rate uh yeah now Usually I have
my whoop on because I used to have the aura,
but I couldn't train with it. Right. But I just
took it off because I was training jujitsu. Aura's
a little bit of a problem when you lift weights
too. Exactly. I pinch my finger so bad. Well,
have you ever seen sheathing injuries? You ever
seen those? Uh -uh. What is it, where it rips
the skin of your finger off? The first time I
ever saw one, I never saw it in person, but the
first time I ever saw one, it was somebody who
did jujitsu. And they did jujitsu with a ring
on, like a wedding ring, and just fucking mangled
their finger. It's called sheathing because it
pulls all your skin off the bone like a sheath
you would stick a knife in. Oh, I've seen that.
Yeah, I didn't know that's what it was called.
That's what it's called. It's like a sheathing.
Here's some of these injuries. I saw it like
that. Bro, look at that. Dude. Ew. The first
time I ever seen it was someone in a gi. Ew.
A gi. It got caught in the gi. Oh, my God. Really?
Like you said, took the skin off. Yeah, he had
the right wing, and I think he made the grip
on the sleeve. And when the guy pulled, it caught
that fat, that little muscle or whatever right
there. And ripped his fucking skin off his finger?
The whole skin. I've never seen that. Dude, it
was so nasty. Like you said, I was like, oh,
my God. So now I am 100 % sure that I don't wear
my wedding ring. That's why it's tattooed on
my finger because when I go to camp, I don't
wear a wedding ring. She knows. When I get to
camp, I take it off. I put it in my truck. When
camp is over and I get home from the fight, I
put it back on. I don't have mine on now because
I just came from the gym, but I used to have
a silicone one. Well, not used to. I have a silicone
one that I use all the time that I can work out
with it. I can do anything with it. Oh, interesting.
Yeah. What is it? that company ridge is that
what it is no that's the wallet company is that
what it is yeah they're making all kind of stuff
but there's luggage and everything it's a good
one it's there's there's um it looks like an
aura ring too but it's it's made out of silicone
so even if you catch it on something it's no
big deal but even that i forget which which coach
it was I forget which coach. It's like an elite
jiu -jitsu coach. He goes, I refuse to let a
guy even train with that. He goes, I've seen
too many injuries. Dang. Too many injuries where
your finger just gets mangled by having that
fucking stupid thing on there. That's nasty.
That's like. Groove ring. Groove. That's it.
Yeah. I feel like that with like. Those are legit.
Knee injuries and like dislocations. Oh, dude.
You know what creeps me the most is broken shins.
When I see that shin check, when the shin snaps,
like, ah. If there's ever a fight that I think
a guy should have pulled out that didn't, and
if I was his friend, I would have told him, you
cannot fight. It's Conor when he fought Dustin.
The second fight with Dustin, excuse me, the
third fight with Dustin when his shin snapped
in half. You know, they knew that he had some
sort of a hairline fracture on his shin. Really?
Yeah. I never knew that. He already had MRIs
and everything. They knew something was really
wrong with it. Yeah, screw that. No, no, no.
Yeah, and he didn't even, it didn't even. like
go shin to knee or anything like that, like it
usually snaps. That's how compromised it was.
If you watch that fight, there is one time where
Dustin checks it. And he checks the kick, and
he looked at him. He pointed at him, like, I
know that hurt you, bitch. Like, he, like, got
in his head. And that was also after Dustin had
just KO'd him in the last fight. So this was
the third fight. Yeah. And it was weird, man,
because in the first fight, it was like, nice
guy, Conor. It was like, nice guy, Conor, even
after the fight. Like, after the fight, he was
being cool. He got KO'd. His leg got fucked up
with those calf kicks. And after the fight, he
was so respectful. I'm like, look, Conor turned
a corner. Not the third one. Not the third one,
bro. Oh, bro. It's so funny, but it's like, I
know where Dustin, he comes from like a same
vibe that I come from. And like, same things
probably bother him. So when he said that, you
could see Dustin, like, even though he just whooped
him, he was like, like, you know, crazy thing
to say while you're lying there with a broken
leg. For sure. You know, a guy could just keep,
he took it well though. You know, who took it
the best that I've seen personally, Tyrone Spong.
When he snapped his in half, he's just sitting
there. We talk about this too. I'm like, bro,
how'd you sit there? Just like, he's like, to
be honest, I think he said, like, to be honest,
I was a little in shock at first. And I was like.
What am I going to do? It is what it is. Yeah,
like, what am I going to do? Like, it sucks.
That's wise. Yeah, he was a G. That was against
Gokhan Saki, too. Yeah. That was a kickboxing
fight. Yeah, I remember to this day. It's very
rare in a kickboxing fight. Isn't it interesting?
It's way more common in an MMA fight. I've only
seen it a couple times in kickboxing. I've seen
it. God, thank God, because of Instagram. Luckily,
I get to see every fucking horrific injury that's
ever happened. It seems like I never saw it until
one. Who was the first time? Was it Corey Hill?
I think it was Corey Hill was the first guy who
broke his. And Corey was like a real tall, thin
guy. I believe he fought at 145. And he was something
crazy, like 6 '3 at 145. He was real tall and
skinny. And who did he fight? Jamie will find
it. He passed away, right? Yes, he did, unfortunately.
He fought in Louisiana a good bit. Because I
remember when he passed away, they were doing
some stuff for him there. So that was also the
referee didn't notice it. Dale. It just says
Dale H. Oh, bro, that gets me. So during the
fight, the referee didn't notice it, so they
kept fighting. And I put my headsets down, and
I got up, and I was screaming, stop the fight,
stop the fight. The referee didn't notice it.
He didn't notice that the guy's leg broke. So
they were still scrapping on the ground. I hope
that was the end, because how do you not notice
that? His leg is literally in a U. It's just
a bad angle, you know? You're in the wrong place
at the wrong time. Looking at where the referee's
standing, there's actually kind of no excuse.
There it is. There it is. I see it falls back.
Look, it's lit. Stop, stop, stop. Stop the fight.
Stop the fight. Stop the fight. The fight is
all over. Corey Hill. Dang. Dale Hart. You saw
it instantly on your monitor. I saw it instantly
in the cage. I wasn't watching the monitor. I
don't even think we had monitors back then. I
was just about to ask that question, too. I don't
think we had monitors back then. We didn't have
monitors for a while. The monitors were my idea.
Really? I was like, we have to have monitors.
I want to see monitors. I want to see replays.
I want to see shit. It was early, early in the
UFC. I was like, we need monitors. And also,
the judges should get fucking monitors, too.
Yeah, now it's nice. I'll sit behind you sometimes
and see it. Actually, now that I'm thinking that,
maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we did have monitors.
Maybe I was asking for other things. Maybe I
was asking for monitors for the judges. When
did they start having monitors in the UFC? I
don't know. But I always try to watch the actual
fight. I want to see the actual fight. I mean,
you can get a better view if the cage is there,
but I mean, fuck, man, you're five feet away
from the best fights on earth. You want to see
it, see it. I don't want to be watching TV. That's
crazy. Yeah, you got the best seat in the house.
Oh, it's the craziest seat ever. So when did
they start doing it? 2011. Is that for judges?
Yeah. That was definitely my idea or well there
was other people that had that same idea, but
I'm like you need to do this This is because
there was some of them that were so bad some
some calls that were so bad It's like there's
no way these guys are seeing everything You know
if there's a pillar here and a guy lands an elbow
and you're judging you don't see it like what
do you do? What do you say that might have been
the most pivotal moment in the fight? Like what
are you doing? You have to see it at all The
judging thing is crazy, man. Tell me about it.
There's judges that don't even train. They've
never trained MMA. They don't have any jujitsu
skill. They don't know what's going on. In the
middle of a fight once, this lady leaned over
to my friend, who also worked for one of the
commissions, and said, what is he doing? No way.
It was an Americana. It was a normal move. It
was like, what is he doing? That's crazy. It
was either Americana or Kimura. I'm not sure
if I remember. He's trying to bite him. What?
I don't know. But imagine, this is a person that's
in charge. So the really horrible thing about
it, a bad decision, it's not just that you get
a loss on your record, but you get half your
paycheck. which I think is really fucked up.
I think that needs to stop. I think you should
have a designated amount that you're fighting
for, and if you want to have a stoppage bonus
or you want to give someone some sort of a bonus
for an excellent performance, that's great. That
incentivizes them to try harder to stop somebody.
But a bad decision that can cost you half your
purse is crazy. It's crazy. You know, I had a...
I'm getting older, so I try to have a little
bit more wisdom. So after I lost to Fluffy, I
went back and watched the fight like six times,
and I'm like, I really don't see how I lost on
a decision. I can see your point if you use this
frame of mind, but based on the unified rules
at the time, how? Dude, I reached out to like
a lot of people that I knew that are like in
the high up in commissions and like I had really
deep talks with them about it, like explain my
perspective, listen to theirs, the rules. And
literally it came down to it's your interpretation.
It's your interpretation of the rules. And it
was like it came down to is his effective grappling,
even if they're holding, they're still, you know,
whatever. Does it outweigh me almost knocking
you out? And me putting a cut all the way to
your skull on your face. And you holding me.
Which one outweighs what? That's how I explained
it to them. And they were like, oh, but he just
had more time. I said, and look, don't get me
wrong. I love Fluffy. I think he's a great human
being. I really do. I've known him. We fought
twice already. And he's beat me both times. Both
decisions. But I don't think I lost the last
one. I'll still die on that hill. But it was
a very good fight. It was a very close fight.
I see what you're saying, though. And it was
one of the things that we brought up during this
past fight with Marab and Piotr Jan. And I'm
like, if you're looking at it in terms of just
damage, Piotr Jan is clearly doing more damage.
Right. He's hitting Marab with shots that rock
him. He kicks him in the body. He's got him screaming.
There was never a moment where Marab did that
to Piotr. Even when he hit him with good shots,
Piotr was firing back. Right. Damage is huge.
It's what the sport is really about. The sport
is really about either damage or coming really
close to putting someone out, like submitting
them. That's what the sport's about. And when
it's just holding, when a guy holds and doesn't
do anything with it, it's like that, it's, look,
it's an effective strategy. And if you're fighting
a guy who could fuck you up standing and that's
all you could do to survive, I understand. Like,
I have no problem with boring fights. I really
don't. And I know the fans are like, fucking
separate him. Fucking separate him. I have no
problem with boring fights because I think if
you can let a guy just hold on to you, that is
a part of the game. Yeah. If a guy takes you
down and holds you down, I think you should be
there. A round's only five minutes. I don't believe
in stand -ups. And I know that sounds crazy,
but even if it's boring as shit, and sometimes
I'm happy when they stand people up, I really
am, but if it was my rules, if I could make the
rules, I'd never stand a person up. Unless there's
a violation of the rules, never stand a person
up. Because it's part of the sport. If it's boring,
it's boring. You know, we talked about it after
the fight. After the fight, I went in the back,
and I was frustrated at myself, really, to be
honest. I was super frustrated at myself. Well,
at first, I was like, Fuck, they just let him
fucking hold the whole time. Like in the third,
I literally almost knocked him out. Like I'm
talking shit, right? And Robbie looks at me,
Robbie Lawler, and he goes, should have just
got up then. I went, you're right. Yeah. You're
right. You're right. That's some Robbie Lawler
wisdom right there. And from there, I was like,
all right. Yeah. But then I found out after,
like one of Fluffy's coaches is, he used to be
in the commission, like so he knows. They explained
his pedigree or whatever. And he's very, very,
very knowledgeable about what the rules are and
all these things. So he strategizes, I guess,
certain things around that. So he strategizes
certain things around the rules. Yeah, that's
what I heard. That's what they told me. I bet
a lot of guys do that. He canceled, like he was
in the commission, like part of it, like I guess
worked for them. And he's like, he pulled out
of working there because he wanted to be for
Fluffy more, which is admirable. But like he
didn't want to have like a... Conflict of interest.
Yeah. So I thought that was pretty cool. But,
like, I will say, like, what Fluffy did really
good that I was prepared for, like, wrestling
like crazy. But I wrestle with guys that are,
like, folk style wrestlers. What he does very
well is he don't shoot normal shots. He doesn't
shoot, like, a double or a single. He shoots,
like, it looks like it's going to be a double,
but he's only at your hips. He's just trying
to get your hips. Then he's circling right away
if he can or putting you to the cage and working
his sequences from there. But he has very awkward
shots. They're so weird. Like I could see them
and I was like, oh, I'm about to stuff it. But
I'm the kind of guy like you got to touch me
and then I'm going to go. I'm not just going
to react. That way you can set it up for something
else. Right. But as soon as he touches me, like
in the second, he was, I didn't know how, but
I watched it back. I went to like catch a whizzer.
And next thing you know, my feet came out from
under me because we were both circling so hard.
I was trying to get the whizzer and he was trying
to go to my back. And my feet came out from under
me. I just landed like on my shoulder. And I'm
like, in the fight, I'm like, what the fuck just
happened? There's no way. This is where my head's
at. I'm like, no fucking way that he just did
this. I'm like, what the fuck just happened?
And my corner's yelling at me. His corner's yelling.
And I'm still in my head like, what the fuck?
Like, what just? Dude, it took me like probably.
a minute and a half to like transfer into something
else and then I was like he's not doing nothing
so I'll just get him next round which terrible
frame of mindset we've worked on and then the
third but yeah man I was like still like after
the fight I was like yo I asked my boy I was
like how did he get me down there like he went
for a guillotine I said I didn't go for no goddamn
guillotine until the third and then I swept him
with it and stood back up I was like I didn't
do that I swear but yeah man but like I said
McKinney had a savage he's a savage he's a savage
And he also has a crazy gas tank, man. He melts
guys. That guy melts guys. The Delize thing where
he grabbed his neck and just like a bouncer at
a nightclub just dragged him back to finish him.
That was crazy. Yeah, man. That's one thing I
wish I would have put more output. Because everyone's
like, you're tired. I was like, bro, I was having
a full conversation like this in between rounds
right after the fight. I wasn't tired. I was
just. complacent like i was like oh like i'm
already gonna because i beat malco like that
because all he did was hold literally just held
and i'm hitting him bang bang bang how am i supposed
to improve my position you're literally just
holding you're not even moving at all you're
not lifting your weight you're not doing nothing
right so i won that fight because i did more
damage and i had fight ending intentions i felt
i had that with fluffy so in the third i was
like i'm elbowing him and he's gushing blood
and i'm looking at the ref like yo he's just
holding i try to get up he's just he just picks
my ankle and I go back down, I elbow him some
more, try to get back up. He got on top for like
a minute, but he didn't do nothing really. Anyway,
that's where my frame of mindset was at, and
it was just terrible, you know, looking back.
But I would love a third, you know. Well, it'll
probably happen. It'll probably happen somewhere
down the line because it would be a great fight.
Yeah, well, that's where kind of the holdup is,
I guess, right now. Obviously, you know how politics
work in this game, but it's like the top five
is the champion, Drikus. No, I'm sorry. Champion,
Drikus, Imavov, Sean Strickland, Fluffy, me.
And it's like, all right, Sean, they just announced
Sean and Fluffy. Imavov, yep, that's cool. And
then Imavov's waiting. They both said they're
going to wait for that one. So it's just me and
Drikus. And then right behind me is Izzy. Who
knows when Izzy's going to fight or if he's going
to fight. Right. So it's like. We're eating on
Drikus, and Drikus always has a lot to say when
I'm losing, but when I'm winning, he don't really
have enough to say. And then I just saw an interview
the other day, and it was like, he was like,
yeah, I'd love to beat his head in or something.
About you? Yeah, about me. And I'm like, well,
you have the opportunity to do so, and it only
makes sense unless you want to wait forever.
I wonder what he does after that Hamzat fight,
because when a guy dominates you like that, Where
it's so clear. It's just like one of those gaps
that it looks like, oh, you're never going to
bridge that gap. That grappling gap. I don't
know if you agree, but. That should never happen
at that level. Well, it never does happen at
that level. That's the reality. Except Islam
and Jack de la Maddalena. That's another similar
situation. Yeah. Very similar situation. But
I think there's guys that you get in there with
and, you know, if you're used to a, like, B -caliber
guy or, you know, a high -level guy. Right. But
there's only a few real A's. And, like, Hamzat
is a real A. Yeah. He's good at it. He's a savage.
I talked to DC about him. And DC said, dude,
when that guy grabbed me, and he goes, we were
wearing street clothes and everything like that.
He goes, I realized, like, I'm going to have
to wrestle, wrestle to keep this guy off me.
He was like, he's fucking strong, man. And it's
also because, first of all, how the fuck did
that guy make 170? I don't know. But I don't
understand how he talks about going up to 205.
Because like you said, you got guys like Pereira.
And don't get me wrong. I know they're stylistically
different. I think he can do it. I think he can
do it. I think he can do it if he takes the time
and puts weight on. Yeah, if he puts weight on,
I think he has a high chance. Because he's tall.
You know, he's tall. And it's also, the thing
is, it's like these gaps in wrestling. You know,
these gaps in grappling. When a guy's a really
good grappler and then you're taking on a guy
like Drikus, who's really a striker. Right. He's
a good grappler. He's a good jiu -jitsu guy.
But there's levels, you know? And the kind of
guy like Hamza, like, man, you got to be a fucking
Olympic caliber wrestler to scrap with that guy.
Yeah, and it's like I tell people, like, I'm
not going to go out there and straight beat Chamayev
in pure wrestling. Like, it's not going to happen.
I'm not stupid. I'm not stupid, but it's MMA.
Could I take him down? I mean, yeah, I could.
But there's other ways to approach the fight
that I think I have the upper hand. Like, you
see how other people have approached him. and
done well with him. But it's like... You also
have very good submissions, too. You have a real
solid jiu -jitsu game. And you can strike. You
know, you've got a very complete package. And
I think, you know, the thing about his grappling
is that, like, you have that hole. If you have
that hole, he's going to find that hole and he's
going to smother you. For sure. And you're fucksville.
That's what freaks... That's what, like, makes
no sense to me with the Drakus fight, right?
Like, you're the champion of the world. he took
you down no problem man i totally understand
i get taken down a lot you know but um i mean
i know our styles are different but you didn't
try to hip bump you didn't try to hip escape
you didn't try to scoop the leg and lift and
elevate you didn't try to do nothing Literally,
he didn't try to do nothing. He literally waited
for him to establish his position. He'd roll
side to side, maybe one hip bump around. When
he did, Chermayev did great. Knee sliced or just
stepped over, passed, and went crucifix. How
many times did he put him in the crucifix, by
the way? That was crazy. It was crazy. It only
had to be like once a round because he wasn't
getting out. I mean, how many times did he put
him in the crucifix? In a world championship
fight, has there ever been a fight where a champion
has been put in a crucifix that many times? Insane.
It was over and over and over again. We were
like, how is he doing this again? This is so
crazy. And that kind of blew my mind. So that's
why it's like... I just think Shamaya's gap is
just so good. And I think also with a guy like
Drikus, You've got to speak to this. When you're
down and you realize, okay, it's the first round.
He's taking me down. He's on top of me. Let me
just conserve my energy. This is a five -round
world championship fight. I'm going to knock
this motherfucker out. He's going to get tired
doing this. He always gets tired. But you know
the difference with Hamza in this fight is he
trained with Sam Calavita. Do you know that guy?
Uh -uh. Okay. I just heard he hired someone good.
Yeah, Calavita is a real elite strength and conditioning
coach and legendary guy. And he runs this, he
just calls it the garage, okay? It's in Orange
County, California. And it's just a fucking garage
and not even a big one. Just a small two -car
garage with no cars in it. And it's all just
machines and equipment. And he's got Armand Saroukian
training down there, TJ Dillashaw. When he was
in his prime, he was training down there. DJ's
conditioning was at such a fucking high level
when he was in his prime was he was training
with that guy. He has everybody that I know that's
trained with him is like, bro, this guy puts
you through fucking hell. Hell. This is... that's
TJ when he's training there. And again, this
is like, if you see there, Sam, if you see it,
like, and when you listen to the guy talk, just
extremely fucking knowledgeable, but he gets
you to the point. It's called the train. It's
a, if you look at it online, training lab on
Instagram, T R E I G N lab. training, but training
is T -R -E -I -G -N, like train MMA. Yeah, I
know that name, the training lab, because I was
like, man, what a weird way. That's it. So you
see Aaron Pico's there with them. There's Hamzat.
So, I mean, he's got so many elite guys that
are training inside of that gym. There's Juan
Anchuleta. I wonder how they work that in. Obviously,
they have their coaches and stuff dealing with
it, but how they operate, how it's such intense.
The issue with Hamzat was overtraining. So one
of the things about Hamzat is he's apparently
you can't kick him out of the fucking gym. He
won't stop training. And you got to literally
like stop him from training. He's a maniac. And
when he got COVID, that's what really fucked
him up. So he got COVID and you would think,
oh, healthy guy like that who gets COVID, that
ain't going to be shit for him. This silly motherfucker
was training like an animal two -hour sessions
with COVID. So then, you know, he's never. getting
better. So instead of like saying, hey, this
cold is not getting better. It's like, don't
be pussy. I kill everyone. He shows up again,
training again, two and a half hours, sick as
a fucking dog, coughing. And then he broke his
immune system down to a point where they had
to fucking hospitalize him. Yeah, I remember
hearing that. Just from training while he had
COVID. That's all it was. He just refused to
stop training. And look, I don't care what it
is, the flu, whatever you have. You're trying
to train two and a half hour days when you have
a serious lung infection, you're going to fucking
die. There's DC. And DC told me he did one session
with him. This is recent. He's on the bike. What's
that? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He uses elastic bands
along with a fucking rogue echo bike. Yeah, so
those rogue echo bikes, they suck enough. And
to have resistance bands while you're doing it,
too. That's crazy. Yeah. No, Sam's an animal.
And, again, super knowledgeable. Like, knows,
like, what your recovery should be, where your
resting heart rate should be. And also super
knowledgeable in terms of, like, supplements,
diet, and all that stuff. He comes from the endurance
cycling world, which is, like, so cycling, you
would imagine, like, Tour de France -style cycling.
This is probably the most endurance -dependent
sport on planet Earth because it goes for so
long. You have to really understand how to peak
in order to compete at a real insane endurance
event like that. So he's got this knowledge from
that sport that he's transferred over to MMA.
But everybody I know that's trained with him
has said, like, man, it just changed everything,
changed my whole game because now all of a sudden
you've got an incredible gas tank. Yeah, he's
doing good. Shamayev, like I said, he looked
good. I think that was a factor, though, in that
fight. For sure. There was no fade in that fight
where you saw like the Usman fight. There was
a fade in the third round. Usman won that fucking
third round. Yeah. And after that third round,
he was like, fuck, I wish this was a five round
fight. Yeah. But it's like also like Usman made
him have output. Yeah. He didn't really have
to. He had one explosion to take him down. Mm
hmm. But Usman can fucking wrestle. That's the
difference. He was in there with a guy who was
real strong, even though he's a weight class
below him. Usman had been competing at 170, and
Hamzat had already committed to 85. He's a bigger
guy. But Usman can really wrestle, and that's
the difference. It's not like a guy that doesn't
know what to do, and you take him down, you ragdoll
him. Usman's like, okay, you got me down, but
this is a long -ass fight, and I'm going to get
back up, and we're going to figure this out.
And in the third round, he was figuring it out,
and he started tuning them up. He was landing
good shots. Yeah, I have a friend that trained
with Tremaya. He goes and helps, and he's told
me, he's like, man, his wrestling's really good.
I was like, how good? He was like, it's good.
I was like, he whoop you? He was like, no. If
he whoop me, why would they bring me in if he
whoops me? I was like, touche. Good one. But,
you know, he is good. But you still got to watch
that. You got to watch to see what does he consider
whoop. Yeah. Let me watch. Show me the video.
Let me see it. Yeah. Let me see what they got.
Let me go in the room. I want to see in the room
what's happening. But I like his demeanor, too.
Like, the confrontation he had with, like, Ian
Gary. Like, he's similar to me. I don't understand
that because I had heard there's another angle
that shows that Ian slapped him on the back pretty
hard. Yeah. Oh, he did. Yeah, but Ian's that
guy. He's trying to get a rise out of you. That
way when you do get a rise, he's like a big brother,
nitpicking. He's that guy. He wants you to get
a rise out of you so then he can be like, what
are you doing? I didn't mean that. He's like,
that's why I don't like Ian at all. That's because
he's... You guys were at the same gym for a while.
But, like, I don't know. I know, like, other
things and, like, things that happened. He's
just that guy. Like, he's talked shit to me through
another person. Like, me and my boy are at a
fight, and he's talking shit to me through his
phone. Bro, shut up. Stop letting your wife tell
you what to do, bro. Shut up, you know? But,
like, yeah, he walks over there, and he says
something. Dude, he hits him hard on the back.
And Shamaya just looks at him. Then he did what
he did back or whatever and shoved him whatever
the case what however that you saw the confrontation
from there But yeah, he did he hit him and he
told him he was like you like you hit me I'm
gonna fuck you up. Like if you hit me like that
again He tried to like Big Brother him like because
the clip that everybody saw was after he slapped
him on the back It looked like to my I've just
got really aggressive. Yeah, there's the other
angle Like keeps hitting him then shakes him
as he walks away. Yeah And then he's talking
a little shit. Yeah. Oh, we're fine. He's not
going to do nothing. So it's a little weirdly
aggressive. It ain't that bad. It's passive aggressive.
It's a little weird. He taps him. It was like
a little, like, grab his clothes and shove him
a little bit. Yeah. It wasn't like a guy that's,
hey, brother. Exactly. And that's what he said.
He's like, good luck to you. Yeah. I have to
give it to him. Like, some things Shamaya says
are, like, he fought my boy G and he talked shit
to him in the hallway. I didn't really like that.
But, hey, y 'all two are going to fight. Y 'all
are grown men. Do what y 'all want. Some things
he might say or do, I don't like or agree with,
but hey, as long as it's not to me, we good.
But that, and other things he does, I fully agree
with. As a man, I stand behind him. One of the
things I like about Shamayev, after he fought
Gilbert, Gilbert and him went to war, and then
he was like, you're my brother now. You know
what I mean? He was really cool with them. Yeah,
you know, there's a young kid, Ansar, that trains
at Kill Cliff, and he is so much. Like, demeanor
-wise, from what I see of Chamayev, he's so much
like that. Dude, I'm telling you, this kid's
like 18 years old, and he is a stud. He's 18.
He fought for me on my promotion, I think his
debut. Dude, he goes and gets in the guy's face.
The guy's coming down at weight class. He's going
up at weight class. Ansar's going up at weight
class. Dude, he don't care. Matter of fact, he's
in that streamer's video, Neon or whatever, they
post about it. He's the one. Like, throwing RDR
around him. Really? Yeah. 18 -year -old kid?
Dude, he gives everybody problems. Gilbert. Wow.
Was throwing RDR around. Isn't it wild when there's,
like, some weird young phenom that is just so
much better than they're supposed to be when
they're young? Dude. It's real odd when you're
around those guys. There's three or four of them
that, dude, I miss them a lot, like, when I left
Florida. loyal humans like you barely find that
nowadays as you know like you don't you don't
find too many loyal guys and when they say like
my brother they don't care if you're white black
indian uh what your ethnicity is what's your
religion they don't care they care about you
and dude when when i got into it with marvin
at the at the casino ansar wasn't even old enough
to get in so he was like brother if i would have
been there i hate him no problem then but there's
like nikita uh umran john which is uh ansar's
best friend there's like islam there's a couple
of them uh that's a lie of there's like three
to five and i'm telling you these guys especially
like umran john there he is whoa that's a hell
of a shot oh my goodness he is so good oh my
goodness look how smooth he took that dude's
back he just he just fought a couple weeks ago
he knocked some dude out in the first round that
was so smooth man oh my goodness oh he is on
that back so quick Ants are so good. You know,
there's one thing that these guys have in common
is they're all from a hard part of the world,
a fucking rough part of the world. Him and his
best friend, Umranjan, they left home at like,
I think he was 17, 18 years old. They just left
home. We asked him like, hey, bro, why'd you
leave home? How'd you leave home? Like, how'd
you get here? They both said the same thing.
Look, he's out. He's out. Referee. He's a savage.
He trains 100%. He don't know anything other
than 100 % every day. Multiple times. But we
ask him, like, bro, how old is he now? I think
he's 18, 19 max. Wow. Dude, he's a savage. He
looks good. He's very good. He looks good, man.
There's another one. If you're that good at 18,
my goodness. He's going to be a stud. What's
he going to be like when he's 30? Dude, I tell
him all the time, like, man, if you just learn
how to just take a breath and just be a little
bit patient in certain positions. Well, that'll
come. Exactly. But, man, he's fighting. good
guys already like they all they all want to fight
him uman john uman john was fighting like one
or two weight classes up and he had a draw with
a guy and he thought it was like you would think
he lost the love of his life he had a draw because
he was two weight classes up and uh like bro
why don't you fight at your weight class brother
i just smash i want to fight everyone everyone
and they can't get fights they can barely ever
get fights It's hard for phenoms to get fights
in the amateurs and in the lower organizations.
A lot of people don't realize that. It's really
hard. Yeah. They come to me to match them, and
you've got to pay the other guy more to fight
because they already know what it is. It was
hard. It was very hard. And so what weight is
he at now? I think he's at 45. Damn. 45. That's
his last one right there. No, no, that's not.
That's another big takedown. Bro, look at the
dude's hair he's fighting. That's what he does
to everyone. Oh, my goodness. That is a crazy
takedown. He's so exciting. I can't believe dudes
are still holding on to guillotines when people
get into side control. How many times do they
watch Ovin St. Pru fight? It's crazy how many
people still do that. They still keep that guillotine
while a guy's in side control. That is a death
sentence. And some people don't cash in on it.
But if you just cinch those hands together, he
can't get that ham out. That's it. Turn on your
side. That's it. It's almost like giving up your
neck. Exactly. It's like if someone gave up their
back, everybody would be like, what are you doing?
That's like what you're doing. If you're holding
on to a guillotine and the guy's in side control,
it literally is like giving up your back and
exposing your neck. It's kind of crazy. It is.
But I see these kids like this, and I'm just
like, I used to be that kid, but these guys are
even better. You know what I mean? It's scary
how evolution is. But like I said, man, I asked
these kids. I was like, man, why'd you leave
home? How'd you leave home? How'd you get here?
Him and his best friend left together. Their
story both, same thing, different times. Like,
brother, we just left one day. Our parents, we
told our parents we were going to the store,
never came back. What? You know? And just moved
to America? Yeah, like, they somehow got here,
and they've been here, and, dude, they work during
the day. They move stuff. Like, they work for
a moving company, and then they train. So they
train in the morning. They go, they train, train,
then they go work all night. All through the
night, moving stuff, whatever they have to do,
whatever their work is. But most of the time
I see them moving stuff. And then they come back,
train the next day. And they do this every single
day, working their ass off, man. It's super impressive
and it's super motivating too. But it just lets
you know, like for me, I used to be that young
cat. Everyone was 24, 25. I'm 17, 18. And I'm
doing what I'm doing. And now I see these kids
and I'm like. damn so that's what it was like
when the older guys were looking at me but these
guys are better forget when they get like complacent
in their career and they become like a journeyman
and they forget what it's like to be young and
hungry and then they'll train with someone and
that'll either make them retire or it'll reinvigorate
them It's awesome. Because if you're around people
that are that driven, it becomes contagious.
It really does. Especially if you know that a
guy is working all day and training that hard.
You got no excuses. Right. And it's also just
like when you're around people like that, there's
an energy. It catches you. For sure. It moves
you in its wake. It does. You're right. 100%.
Because I get in my modes where I don't want
to do nothing. I'm just like, man, screw this.
I've done this long enough. Whatever. But then
I go. I go back and, like, say today, for instance,
I went and trained with Nicky Rod. They whooped
my ass. I ain't going to lie to you. They whooped
my ass. And I told them after, I was like, this
should be illegal that y 'all just whooped me
that bad. And they're like, yeah, but you ain't
done nothing. And, you know, you don't do pure
jiu -jitsu anymore. Like, we're the best in the
world, like some of the best in the world at
pure jiu -jitsu. It's true. I was like, yeah,
but still, I shouldn't be getting walked like
that. But it just makes me hungry. Nicky Rod
does that to almost everybody. I love it, man.
He's so big. He's such a freak. Dude, I told
him today, I was like, how are you this big and
move like this? This is illegal. Gordon told
me there was a position once they were doing
where they were working from the back and Gordon
had his back and Nikki flipped over the top of
him and wound up behind Gordon. And Gordon turns
to John Donahue and goes, what the fuck am I
supposed to do with that? Like, what do I do
if that happens? It's like, well, Donahue was
like, well, nobody could do that other than Nicky.
Dude. That's how crazy that is. He's so sick.
You know how nuts that is? Do a backflip from
your knees? I couldn't. And go over the top of
someone who's got your back? I can't even visualize
it. Separate the hands. Somehow or another, he
separated the hands and flipped over him. And
Gordon was like, okay. Because Gordon would be
the first to tell you, even though he's the best
in the world and the best ever at no -gi jiu
-jitsu. He's not an explosive guy. He's like,
I'm not a good athlete. He's intelligent, though.
Super, super intelligent. Super smart. Yeah,
he's super intelligent. Super smart. I've listened
to some of his, like, instructionals before.
And, like, I know he did one at Rufusport a long
time ago. And the guys told me after because
I was obviously at home. And they were like,
bro, he was in a wheelchair because I guess he
had a surgery at the time and he was in a chair.
And his lady was teaching. like she was teaching
for him and he was walking through every single
position they they all everyone said that was
the best uh seminar they've ever been to he didn't
he didn't get down there and teach one move that's
incredible that's incredible i was like that's
impressive well you could if you could do a seminar
from a wheelchair jesus christ dude impressive
you know wagner says the same thing he's like
bro he's the best guy ever trained with learn
from anything he's he's amazing so i've heard
it from a lot i've heard a lot of the guy though
that's 365 days a year of training because period
there's no days off fuck your christmas fuck
your birthday there's no days off which is so
crazy yeah think of but The way they put it and
the way Donaher put it is like if you are training
200 days a year, that is a lot, but you will
not be able to beat a guy who's training 365
days a year because he has 165 more training
sessions a year. So over the course of two years,
now he has 300 plus, then 400. It keeps going
and going. So over the course of five years,
he's trained so much more than you. It's true.
And it's not just training. It's like when they're
not physically training, they're going over tape.
all day right like which is like it's hard to
do that and to keep your mind focused on that
they're writing things down they're going over
positions it's not just all hard physical work
it's intelligent it's a lot of breaking things
down a lot of like the finer points of technique
and positioning it's it's funny you say that
because it's like for me like when we were talking
earlier about how like time off it reinvigorates
your mind it's like that's what it a hundred
reps in a day of like things that I've screwed
up on, like throwing a jab wrong or leaving my
hand down or like in my head, my mental reps.
And then somehow when I do go train again, it's
just so weird. Like my body just automatically
does it. Like say I throw the jab and I just
bring it back to my chest. I don't want it there.
I want it on my chin. I do so many mental reps
of this for like a week or two weeks or however
long I'm out. By the time I spar again, I'm not
doing it no more. Like I do so many mental reps
focused on such little details. But then outside
of that, I really take my time. I try to take
my time away from fighting. Like when I'm not
training for the most part, like especially like
the month after the fight, I don't want to hear
about fighting. I don't want to talk about fighting.
That's why I stay away from like most people
that don't know me. I don't want to talk because
anytime they see me, oh, what do you think about
this fight? What's next? I don't know, man. You
just want to let your motivation return. I just
want to be with my family. I want to be a normal
person. Because one day fighting is not going
to be there for me. It's always been there for
me since I was 13. When I had anxiety about something,
stress, heartbreak, whatever it is, it's always
been there for me. And that's when I always grew.
But the end is a lot closer than the beginning.
Right. That's where I'm at in my life. And I
know that. So I'm trying to make the most of
it and try. You think about like high end, you
got 10 years, if that's really possible. Maybe.
It's not usually. And usually the last few are
rough because the last few years, like Anderson
after he broke his leg. Right. Right. So I say
there's like two Andersons. There's Anderson
pre -Weidman and post -Weidman. For sure. There's
the knockout where Weidman caught him at the
left hook, and then there's the leg break in
the rematch. And then from then, he's never been
Anderson again. Correct. And I think the injury
has a lot to do with it, but it's also father
time. I don't think we got Anderson in the UFC
until he was 34. It was a while because he was
already big on the other scenes. Huge, bro. That
was one of them fights where... People didn't
really know Anderson that well. And he was fighting
Chris Lieben. And the odds were Anderson was
the favorite, but not by enough. And I was telling
my friend, I'm like, bet the house on the Brazilian.
I go, bet the house. Because he was coming off
of that. Remember Cage Rage? Yeah. So he was
coming off of the Lee Murray fight. He was coming
off. Who did he fight over there as well? He
fought Jorge Rivera. That was a big fight. There
was a Tony Fricklin one where he did that crazy
step in elbow. Oh, yeah. That's all. the highlight
of that i didn't know that was named but i know
that the elbow you're talking about that elbow
do you know he had a practice with his wife because
uh his coach wouldn't let him try it really his
coach was like stop doing that you're not gonna
do that he goes i'm gonna hit him with this he's
like no you're not gonna do that stop training
that so we didn't want to train that so he told
his wife to hold a pillow so his wife was holding
a pillow at home and he was going like this Over
and over again. He was just practicing it. No
way. He wanted to do some on -box shit. What
a great story to have. Bro, that was Anderson.
People saw him in his prime for sure, obviously,
because he's one of the greatest of all time,
but they didn't see that transition to him becoming
in his prime, and that was in Cage Rage. Because
he had some really good fights in Pride, but
then when he went to Cage Rage, like... Something
flipped, man. You know how it is with Oliveira
when it happened to him after he had his kid?
Something flips sometimes when a fighter just
locks in and then they become who they really
are. Yeah, who everyone around them knows because
they've seen it in the gym, but no one else has
seen it. It's weird. I always say that about
myself. I'm still not the guy that everyone knows
in the gym. I show a little bit more every time,
but I'm not even... that that guy well maybe
this changing of environment and coaching will
allow you to hit that spot the coaching like
you were talking about earlier right it has been
the hardest thing for me to let go like of control
and give it to someone else but it took it was
kind of one of those things I met Horacio and
Mike and I have obviously a lot of trust and
a lot of faith in Bilal I've known him for a
long time and I see what he's done but I met
these guys and Max too um I met him for five
days when I was with Bilal and uh to watch sit
back and watch them also have my own interactions
with them it just felt like you know one of those
things you just feel like you're friends instantly
like you've known each other forever and that's
kind of what that connection was with them so
honestly it was a little bit easier than normal
to let go of like um the control of like controlling
What I'm going to do, when I'm going to do it,
the strategy. Did you think about other camps
as well? I didn't think I was going to leave,
to be honest with you. I didn't think I was going
to leave Florida. I was just going there to help
my friend and just kind of see what I could do
differently, what I could change in my own thing.
But then, obviously, my goal after being there,
because he was getting ready for Jack, Bilal
was. So I watched everything. I helped him for
a few days. And then I went back. I fought Marvin.
And I was at I did two or three weeks with Chicago
two weeks. I did two weeks. Excuse me. I did
two weeks and then I did like four or five in
Florida. So I was like, OK, next time I'm just
going to do split it four and four, you know,
spend my time mix and match because it was great
time like for me. Then I fought the writer. He
was there and I was like, I don't know. It didn't
sit well with me how all that stuff went. like
how he got there and everything and everyone
was like oh why is he fighting him their teammates
and i told everyone from the beginning like you
can ask gilbert burns because he said it on his
little podcast thing he did i always said i'm
not gonna train with him i'm gonna fight him
one day i'm good no animosity i just don't need
no more friends i just don't right um i have
enough guys the guys that i know that i'm friends
with joe peiffer rod uh gregory rodriguez uh
by sangor Those are guys that are going to be
at the top or at the top that we have agreements
only for a belt. I'll fight anyone on this planet
for a belt. Anyone. And I expect the same in
return because it could change their lives or
my own. So they know that about me. But no matter
what the time frame is, if you say yes to me
or you say my name, we're going to fight. That's
it. That's how I feel. But those guys are the
guys that I have with. And now they're all coming
to the top. So it's like. You know, someday it's
probably going to happen. Well, Dana hates hearing
that kind of shit. Like, guys won't fight friends.
Yeah, but I'll fight for a belt, though. Anyone
on the whole planet. Godzilla, I'll fight for
the whole belt. I don't care. And Ganu, I'll
fight him for a belt. I don't care. Like, you
know what I mean? Like, it could change my whole
life. Like, my family's. Sure, yeah. So, like,
I'm very realistic. Because, obviously, even
if you love to do this, at this level, it's about
the money, too. You know, it's financial freedom
making intelligent choices because one slip -up
could set you back two years Yeah, I'm learning
now Yeah. I learned that the hard way. Well,
that's also important to learn, right? It's also
important to have those setbacks. Those setbacks
are some of the most important growth points
in your career, in anybody's career, if you do
it right. Those setbacks are when you feel that
ugliness and then you really have to assess what
could I have done differently? What am I doing
wrong? Is there something about my mindset? Is
there something about my diet? Is there something
about my recovery? Am I doing too much of this
or too little of that? You have to have that
pain. If everything is just going great, the
thing going into the fight was Aspinall's every
fight other than the Curtis Blades fight was
a one round fight. It was him blowing guys out.
And so no one really knew what was going to happen
if we got into round three, round four, round
five. And so that question's always hovering
over the head. When a guy like you who's been
in those wars and been in the trenches, you've
already had, that's a blessing. It really is
a blessing because it gives you not just the
motivation to return better than you were before.
Like look at Bo Nickel after he lost, right?
He loses to Derrida, comes back and smokes Adolfo
Vieira. Looked like a different guy. Looks like
a different guy. Why? Because of that. There's
a blessing in losing. There's a blessing in failure.
There really is. Because if you can swallow it,
it will give you a fucking furnace inside you
to come back stronger. If you can swallow it,
but some guys can't swallow it. They choke on
it and they cry and maybe their confidence gets
shattered and they're never the same again. Or
maybe they go, why am I doing this? I could be
a carpenter. I always wanted to play drums. I've
thought of that. I thought of that, but I don't
want to go back to being a carpenter. I'm good
with that. A guy like Tom Aspinall, when he gets
to a fight with a guy like Ngannou or a guy who's
going to be there, those questions, and I'm not
saying that he wouldn't succeed. I'm not saying
he wouldn't win. But those questions might be
in your head because you haven't been in those
high -profile wars before where you came up short.
You know, I still get those questions. I'm such
a perfectionist. And I know nothing will ever
be perfect, but I want as close to it as I can
get. That's a great mindset. I find something.
I will always find something to be negative.
But what's helped me is I had a sports psychiatrist
for a while. He was great. And I learned a lot
with him. And for me, it's been about, like,
I'm very, like, open with people that I care
about and that I know care solely about me. They're
not worried about if I win or lose. You know,
all that stuff. The fame. They're not worried
about that. They care about me as a person. And
that was something that was great with Bilal
and Horacio and all the guys in Chicago. Mike,
Max. You know, we talk regularly. How are you,
man? How's the family? Everything good? But I'm
very open with them leading up to the fight.
Like, there's a clip from behind the scenes of
the last fight where I'm open and they catch
it. Like, this is me being vulnerable of who
I am. I was too manly or whatever or trying to
suppress it before where it just grew into something
bigger. And I would mentally shut down. Malkoon
was the worst fight for me for that. I was shaking
in the bed the night before, like I was freezing,
but I wasn't. I was so nervous of like, I can't
lose to this guy. He's not on my level. And then
I go out there and perform not that well. So
your mind was fucking you. Yeah, because I find
one negative thing and I just focus and I make
it huge. I think it's good sometimes. I think
it's good sometimes, but it's like almost like
you have to be critical, but yet also confident.
Right. And I would take my confidence away. by
focusing on it. But being able to talk about
it, like, again, they had that moment. I have
it on my Instagram. They made a clip or whatever
for me. And it's just literally, it was two nights
before the fight, three nights before the fight.
And we're talking, and I'm telling him, bro,
he could get me down. He could finish me. But
if he finishes me on the ground, he's got to
be just that good. But I'm nervous, man. I'm
nervous that I'm not going to go out here and
perform to what I know that I can do. To me,
that's the worst. I don't mind losing to someone
that's better than me. I can take it. I haven't
found that man yet, but I know it's going to
happen. But to lose to someone truly better than
me, I can accept it. But to lose to myself, oh,
man, to look in the mirror. It eats me alive.
I think those things that can creep into your
head before a fight where I don't want to lose,
I don't want to disappoint people, I don't want
to do this, then that is a really bad time to
have those thoughts. It's not a bad time to have
those thoughts when you're working on stuff.
It's not a bad time to have those thoughts if
you're really trying to motivate yourself to
get up in the morning and run or whatever it
is, to really get after it and strengthen conditioning.
But when you're fighting, you have to have a
strategy of how to squash those thoughts when
they come up. I mean, it's not just fighting.
Anybody who's listening to this, anything in
life that you have to do that's really difficult
and scares you, you've got to know how to squash
negative thoughts before they burn your house
down. Like when you see the fire, stomp that
bitch out quick. Stomp it out quick and then...
Make sure that you're starting to really only
focus on positive things and never let it get
until those little creepy demon thoughts They'll
get in and then they start running around They
start running around they start screaming and
taking over your brain You're like get out of
my head get out of my head, but they're already
in there you let him in you let him in and Sometimes
they have to burn your house down before you
realize what the danger is of them getting inside
your head. Right. And so then the next time,
you've got to come up with a strategy to squash
it before it gets too crazy. We did a lot of,
like, at the beginning of, like, Sports Psychiatrists,
like, that was one thing, right? Like, I would
suppress it right away and suppress it and try
to creep back through and I'd suppress it again.
But then it just gets bigger and stronger to
where it can just come out. And you don't know
when it's going to come out. It could be the
night of the fight. It could be the day before
the fight. It could be in the fight, you know?
So it's like taking it in. Whatever that emotion
is for you, dissecting it, like literally get
to the root of why you think this. Like, oh,
I think he can knock me out if I dissect it.
Well, yeah, he's knocked a lot of guys out, but
anyone can knock anyone out. Right. Anyone can.
So what are you nervous of? You've done this
like for me over 30 times. What are you worried
about? You fought on the biggest level. You've
main evented. You're ranked in the world. You
fought some of the best in the world. Like, what
are you worried about? You let a demon sneak
into your brain. Yeah, you know? And once I dissect
it, I've worked on it like that so well. And
being open and honest with my coaches and, like,
the people that I care about and they care about
me has been such a great, like, thing for me.
I'm kind of the guy, like, sometimes, like, just
I've learned about myself is just, like, just
let me talk. Sometimes. I'm not a big talker,
but just let me talk. You don't even have to
say nothing, but damn, that's all right, bro.
That's why Tuco, who you always see me with normally,
he's always with me. Bro, he's the best at just
listening to me. It's not very often, but when
I do want to talk, I'm like, bro, he'll ask me,
what's wrong? I'm like, I don't think you want
to hear it today. I'm like, I'm good. He'll ask
me that a couple times. Eventually, I'll just
let it out, and then I'm good. I'm good. It's
almost like you have to tell somebody what's
going on inside your head, and if you keep it
inside your head. There's the wings. The wings
are coming. Demons. Flying monkeys. Throwing
firebombs inside your head. Launching them. Wizard
of Oz. Launching them, bro. So it's like, that's
been great for me. That's really helped. I've
had a couple younger kids that have asked me,
oh, how's that? And I turned them on to my guy
that I used to use. What did you do with the
psychiatrist? What were the sessions like? We
would talk about things like this. He'd have
worksheets and stuff like this. But you know
what really, really sunk in? So first we worked
on learning to catch emotions. He called it something.
But learning to catch different emotions before
they grow. Stop the fire. Stop the fire before
it burns your house down. So like recognizing.
First is recognizing. Anything you have to recognize.
If you recognize it 30 minutes the first time.
All right, let's try for 25 the next time. Don't
let it, like you thought on it for 30 minutes
and you're like, fuck, why am I thinking about
this? Right. Let's do 25. So keep it until you
can get it like right away. Then we dissect it
and then we move on about our day. Things that
helped me at the beginning were like. Does it
help you talking with a different person, like
another person about this rather than just bouncing
it off your own head? Yes, for sure. Something
about talking to another person makes it real.
Yeah, and it just gets it out. I'm holding it
in, holding it in, holding it in. As soon as
I talk, it's literally leaving my body. The stress
just kind of like... And sometimes they have
good things to say, things like that. My sports
psychiatrist was the one that told me those things.
Like, bro, you've done this how many times? You
fought these guys? Did he ever work with fighters
before? He was working with a small team in New
Orleans. And now he's got other guys in the UFC
now because they would ask me and I'd turn them
on. He's great. His name's Eric. He's really
great. He's from New Orleans. Because I would
think if a guy was a sports psychiatrist like
tennis, it's like some things would carry over,
but it's a very different thing. And he trained
as well. He grew up wrestling and stuff. Perfect
guy then. Exactly. And it just worked out great,
man. I learned a lot. I kind of figured out what
worked for me. So I was like, all right. And
I get so busy. another thing he gave me was uh
you read it the day like after you weigh in you
read it and then you finish like it has a part
where it says read up to this point and then
you read this the rest of the section uh the
day of the fight and it's i forget the author
i have it in my phone somewhere uh that he sent
me a long time ago and i would read it before
every fight everyone like the apex when we was
in the apex all the time we i'd weigh in and
we had to wait that like two hours till like
We can face off if you weigh in first. And I'd
sit there and I'd read it. And it was like an
author and he talks a lot about like different
sports and like one of his basic things is like
hope. The word hope. Hold on. Possibilities exist.
Like don't ever think it's over. It's done. Don't
ever say I have to do something. I want to do
something. I don't have to. The minute you start
putting. I have to is the moment you start, like
he says, like put like change, you hit the emergency
stop button, the emergency brake on your car.
Like you got to let it off. You're not performing
at your best with all those things. So like stuff
like that really like sets in and I try to remind
myself. So like reminding myself of those things,
talking about it is really like what helps me.
Is it a book? It's like a little pamphlet. Yeah,
kind of. Do you know who wrote it? It's in my
phone. I could find it. Well, just so other people
can look at it. Because it sounds pretty powerful.
It was great, man. And if it helped you. There's
a lot of hokey sort of self -help stuff online.
You know, be a fucking man. Go out and get it
done. There's a wolf inside of you and all that
kooky shit. But the reality is there's a lot
of wisdom out there, too. There's a lot of, like,
you could read Meditations by Marcus Aurelius.
literally learn how to live a better life. Like
there's a lot of stuff out there that's very
beneficial. So when someone like yourself has
something that really helped them, I think it's
probably good to... put it out there so other
people could get it. You know, it's so crazy.
Now I'm looking through like the documents and
stuff that he sent me. Like mindfulness was the
word I was looking for. You catch it like mindfulness,
like stuff like that. But it's funny. Mindfulness
is one of them co -opted words. It's been co
-opted like gratitude and spirituality. It's
one of them words that like too many kooky people
use. Yeah, exactly. The first time he told me,
I was like. Bro, don't tell me we're out to get
some crazy shit, bro. I'm not that kind of guy,
you know? Don't you hit me with no mindfulness,
son. Yeah, man. But look, I'm literally going
through right here, right? And he would send
me stuff, right? Before a fight or like... So
he'd send you quotes? He'd send me YouTube links.
Look at the second one from the top. Who is it
with me? David Goggins. Oh, that's hilarious.
He sent me that. He sent me stuff like this.
Goggins is a perfect example of that. He says
things all the time that I think of. Jocko. When
I'm working out and I'm really tired, I think
of this one Jocko video where it's called Good.
Have you ever seen that video? No. You want to
get fired up? Yeah, I want to see it. Can we
play that? We'll get fired up. This is one of
my all -time favorite videos. You know Jocko,
right? Jocko. Yeah, yeah. So Jocko. you know
was a navy seal and uh was he's got a book called
uh extreme ownership and it's just the way he
thinks the way he carries himself is it's so
it's so beneficial if you can adopt this that
there's sometimes where i'm training where i'm
really really tired and i want to quit i think
a jocko and i go good you're tired that means
you're going to get stronger listen to this this
is amazing Direct subordinates, one of my guys
that worked for me. He would call me up or pull
me aside with some major problem, some issue
that was going on. And he'd say, boss, we got
this and that and the other thing. And I'd look
at him and I'd say, good. And finally one day
he was telling me about some issue that he was
having, some problem. And he said, I already
know what you're going to say. And I said, well,
what am I going to say? He said, you're going
to say good. He said, that's what you always
say. When something is wrong and going bad, you
always just look at me and say, good. And I said,
well, yeah. When things are going bad, there's
going to be some good that's going to come from
it. Didn't get the new high -speed gear we wanted?
Good. Didn't get promoted? Good. More time to
get better. Oh, mission got canceled? Good. We
can focus on the other one. Didn't get funded.
Didn't get the job you wanted. Got injured. Sprained
my ankle. Got tapped out. Good. Got beat. Good.
Learned. Unexpected problems. Good. We have the
opportunity to figure out a solution. That's
it. When things are going bad. Don't get all
bummed out. Don't get startled. Don't get frustrated.
If you can say the word good, guess what? It
means you're still alive. It means you're still
breathing. And if you're still breathing, well
now, you still got some fight left in you. So
get up. Dust off. Reload. Recalibrate. Re -engage.
And go out on the attack. Oh, yeah. That's a
good one. That's a good one. Play that one when
you're in the fucking dressing room. This is
what it is. Getting ready. I don't know if it's
a document. So these are the things that he sends
you? Yeah. Okay. So it's called How Sports Psychology
Can Help You Do Your Best When It Means the Most.
Unedited copy. Who's the author? What's it say?
Oh, Rob Gilbert. Rob Gilbert, Ph .D., Montclair
State University, Montclair, New Jersey. Okay.
It's pretty cool. God, I'll ask you to send me
that afterwards. Yeah, of course. I love shit
like that. There's little things like that that
you can carry in your toolbox and they can help
you. And not just if you're a professional fighter,
but in basically everything in life. It's been,
it really helped change my perspective. How's
Bilal doing? Who fucking gets poked in the eye
more than that guy? Jesus Christ. That guy has
had, I think he's had something insane, like
nine eye surgeries. I know he's had three of
the hard ones. He told me this story. He had
to drive home six hours. His wife came and got
him and brought him home. But this is a while
back. He had to drive six hours with his head
like that because something with the pressure,
you can't sit straight up with it. It's crazy.
He explained it to me, but it blows my mind.
I couldn't believe he got poked again by Ian
Gare. I couldn't believe it. The moment he got
poked, I'm like, I can't believe this is happening.
I can't believe it's happening. Dude, I thought
the same thing. Oh, my God. Look at that. That
was the Leon one, right? Look at that finger
deep in his fucking eyeball. That is so crazy.
Yeah. That's so crazy. So he's had major surgeries
on his eyes. Yep. And then Ian poked him. Like,
right away. I was like, this is crazy. I don't
know how you feel, but I feel like it should
be an instant one -point deduction. At least.
Every time. At least. I like what Tom Aspinall
said. He was like, no, you poke me in my eye,
you want me to continue? Okay, no problem. I
get to poke him in his eye. Right. I was like,
eh. A lot of people are talking shit about Tom,
but he apparently still can't see. Like his eyes
still fucked up. No one knows. Here's the thing.
The other eye got hurt as well, but not as bad.
But it looks way worse. The finger goes way deeper
in the other eye. Dude, eye pokes are crazy.
Bro, he went straight three stooges. Boink! And
you know, it's crazy that everyone that talks
the most shit has never been poked in the eye.
Not even a little bit. Like accidentally. Oh,
it's horrible. You know? It's like a bolt of
lightning in your brain. And then you can't see.
And the idea that you can't see and then you're
supposed to fight a guy. Also, you're fighting
a guy in Ian Gary who has a fucking nasty left
hand. So if you get poked in your eyeball and
you can't see that punch cut. Well, he's got
a nasty right hand, too. I mean, Ian Gary can
strike. Oh, God. Look at that. So look at the
right one. Excuse me, the left eye. That's deeper.
And that one didn't get hurt as bad. It's his
right eye that really got hurt. The left one
is like finger knuckle deep in his eyeball, man.
Dude, it's crazy. You know, like. Bilal is like
one of those guys you talk about 365, 24 -7.
He's ready. He's doing something always. I'm
even like, bro, take a break, bro. You've earned
a little break. Take a week off. Be with your
family. He won't. Well, in his stage of his life.
It might be the only way to keep going because
he's at, like, 38 now, right? Yeah, something
like that. Like, that's the same age as Usman.
And, you know, you can still be a world -class
fighter at that age. You can clearly see that
with Kamaru against Joaquin Buckley. Like, a
lot of people counted him out because Joaquin
Buckley was fucking a lot of people up. Yeah,
he was. Joaquin Buckley, bro, whoo, that guy's
a problem. He's a fucking problem. I've known
him for a minute, man. He's wild and fast, and
he keeps— getting better, and he's really fucking
intelligent about how to land shots. He knows
how to set things up. And he likes to fight.
He loves to fight. And he's just a dog, just
in the fight, man. He's always dangerous. That
Wonderboy fight, he's having a little bit of
a problem solving that distance and that range
until he didn't. Until he didn't, man. Bro, that
dude's got hammers in his fist. Yes. So when
watching Kamaru just ragdoll him like that, I
was like, God damn. Impressive. Fuck yeah. It
looked like Kamaru world champion level Kamaru.
Yeah. Like a lot of people have kind of counted
him out because there's this narrative that he
puts out there openly about his knees. Yeah.
He talked about on this podcast openly his knees
are fucked. He's like I gotta go downstairs backwards
sometimes Yeah, I hurt so much. I heard he went
and did like a lot of stuff to like redo him
and now he says they're good But I don't I don't
know. I don't know. Well, I know he went to Columbia
He went down to that bio -accelerator place in
Columbia. I don't know if he's been to the place
in Tijuana that the UFC uses now, the Cellular
Performance Institute, but they're all very similar.
We're being held back to such a fucking ridiculous
extent in this country by the FDA that you don't
realize how many people with neurological conditions,
how many people with severe injuries, how many
people could be helped by stem cells. And there's
no evidence that they're down. people. There's
no evidence. I mean, look, anytime you have any
invasive procedure, anytime you have a surgery,
there's always some risk that something can go
wrong. There's always a risk in any medical procedure.
But there's no outstanding risks versus reward
to stem cells. On the contrary, the evidence
is outstanding results, including some of the
things Dr. Neil Reardon has been doing down in
Panama with people that have severe neurological
problems, guys that have had CT. TE, like real,
real, real bad fucking other than just injuries.
And then even injuries like my mom had a really
bad knee and I sent her down there and it got
a lot better. I sent her down there twice. A
lot better. Mel Gibson, his dad couldn't walk.
He was like almost 90. He was like 80 years old.
And then. He went down, got his hips done, got
his, Neil did his shoulders, his hips, a bunch
of other stuff, and did Mel as well. And he's
like, no, my dad was like up and walking around
like five years later still, like he was 10 years
younger. He's a great actor, by the way. Oh,
Mel? He's the man. He's the man. I love that
guy. He's crazy, too. He's so interesting. That
guy's got like a fucking tornado going on in
his brain all the time. Really? Oh, yeah, yeah,
yeah. I think that's why he's such a good director,
man. Did you ever see Apocalypto? Yeah, one of
my favorites. I fucking love that movie. Same.
It's one of my favorites. It's such a good movie.
I love that movie, too, for sure. Such a good
movie, man. Such a good movie. He plays some
great ones. I mean, he made a movie where nobody
speaks English. Exactly. And it's a blockbuster.
And it's amazing. It's fucking incredible. Dude.
It's fucking incredible. I love that one. But
I like his old stuff, too, like Braveheart. Braveheart
was amazing. Passion of the Christ was really
good, too, man. The Patriot was good. Yeah. Dude,
he's fucking, he's the real deal, man. Mel Gibson's
the real fucking deal. Dude, even, what's the
one he, you're gonna think I'm crazy, but I think
it's Think Like a Woman. You ever seen that one?
I did not. Bro, that is freaking hilarious. What
is it? It's like he gets trapped in like he can
like read a woman's mind. And so because like
he's basically a guy. He works. He's a journalist
or like a publisher or something like that. He's
very, like, a womanizer. Like, he gets women
and just, like, whatever. And they're always,
like, talking shit about him behind his back
like everyone else. So now, like, he's trying
to move up the ranks. He's supposed to be next
in line for a promotion. Well, he has his daughter
come in, and she leaves the blow dryer. And he
trips on it and falls in. The water gets electrocuted,
and he wakes up, and now he can hear all women's
thoughts. And it, like, changes who he is as
a person. That's amazing. Like she gets his promotion,
so now he - 2000. Bro, great movie. That's the
year 2000. Funny as hell. Oh, Helen Hunt. He's
been great in a lot of ways. He was great in
that conspiracy theory movie. What's that? Was
it Julia Roberts? Yeah, he was a wacky conspiracy
theorist guy. I don't think I've seen that one.
It's pretty good. What's it called? Conspiracy
theory. Oh, is that what it's called? That's
hilarious. I haven't seen that one. I think a
lot of the things that he talked about now, it's
like people openly discuss online. Because this
was all before the internet. What year was that?
97. Yeah, so there were no conspiracy theory
websites back then. Or not a lot. He has another
one where his daughter works for this company.
She comes home, and it's one of those rich companies
that hide stuff, but you never can tell because
you never have proof. And she's working in a
secret department. She comes home all frantic.
and uh the dude yells something shoots her with
a shotgun right on the right on his front door
boom kills her so obviously then he goes and
starts trying to figure everything out and he
starts figuring out like through the way what
the work was doing it was like poisoning or something
well anyway he finds the guy and ends up killing
him but he ends up dying too because he got the
poison from wherever he went in to the workspace
like he followed he was doing all kind of shit
but it was super cool too what movie is that
i don't know you know that movie Where he shoots
his daughter on the front step. That was one
of the things that sold the movie. That was one
of the previews. Well, how about Lethal Weapon?
First time we ever saw anybody do a triangle
in a movie. True. Right? Yeah. That was crazy.
I like his movies. I loved that scene. That scene,
I was like, what is he doing? I didn't even know
what a triangle was back then. Because I think
that was in the 80s. I wasn't even alive. When
did Lethal Weapon 1 come out? Edge of Darkness.
That's it. Lethal Weapon, I think it's like 87
or 88. Yeah, man. So back then, no one knew what
a fucking triangle was other than the Gracies.
People in Brazil knew. Brazil was so far ahead
of the curve, man. They were having MMA fights
in the 30s. Dude, I went there for my boy Tuco.
He fought in the favela, right? Yeah, look at
this. Was it Gary Busey who was fighting in the
end? Who was the guy who was fighting in the
end? I don't remember. I think it's Gary Busey,
right? Yeah, it is Gary Busey. You know he had
a headache. Movies in the 80s are so wild, dude.
We don't need to watch the whole thing. Let's
just cut to the triangle. This is silly. I thought
so, too. Oh, Gary Busey tried to take it to the
ground. Outrageous. Mel got swept so easily.
Oh, Mel's on top. Everybody was doing cocaine
with their right move. Oh, look at that. He goes
right for an armbar. Oh, sloppy. Terrible technique.
Terrible left hook. The left leg barely held
on there. That was some... Wow, there it is.
That's not bad. That's not bad. That's pretty
good. I like that. He got a good angle. Oh, that's
not bad at all. That's tight. He's cinching it
up right there. Everybody at home is like, what
is happening? Another man put his legs around
another man's head. I remember when Hoist Gracie
did that to Dan Severin. Everybody was like,
what's going on? Like, what is happening? And
then all of a sudden you see Dan Severin tap
and you're like, what? What happened? What did
he do? Put him to sleep. My friend would know
better the lineage and stuff, right? That's where
he's my intelligence. But we went to Brazil,
right, for his fight. He was fighting in the
favela at Jose Aldo's gym. Novo Uniao. Yeah.
It's like right on the edge of the favela. It's
nice though. Yeah. Andre Pettinaris. Yeah. He
was there. He was super nice. He's awesome. He
was super nice. Super hospitable. That guy's
a pioneer, dude. Yes. He was fighting MMA in
early days. Bare knuckle. Really? I didn't know
that. Andre Pettinaris. Oh my God, man. Yeah.
He's a legend. I didn't know him. We met a lot
of great guys, but we were there with Daniel
Gracie and I think it's Henzo's mom. And then
- His dad, like the whole lineage was there before
he passed away. He was there. We went over there
and we were sitting on their couch, chilling,
hanging out, talking, meeting all of them. And
again, I am absolutely God awful with names,
but I knew like as soon as he come out of the
stairs, he was going somewhere. He had a nice
jacket. Oh no, he was doing an interview with,
he was doing an interview, like a little podcast
or something. It was all in Portuguese. I couldn't
understand what they were saying, but they met
him super nice. And then like, I think it wasn't
too long after that he passed away, but, like,
that's, like, one of the starts of Gracie Jiu
-Jitsu. Was it Elio? Was it Carlos? Who was it?
I think it was Carlos, I think. I don't know.
It doesn't matter. It was one of them. Right.
I could figure it out, though. Okay. But, dude,
super nice. Like, they were all explaining, like,
the lineage, and I started with... What's that,
Jamie? Oh, sorry. I started with, like, Gracie
Jiu -Jitsu. So, like, I used to know that lineage
fairly well, but then you know how life is. You
just get away and kind of forget you're not around
it as much. Yeah, well, it's a crazy lineage.
I mean, that one family is responsible for changing
mixed martial arts. Dude, they were telling us
so many, like, cool stories, like things that
I had heard through the grapevine, you know,
from other people when I was younger. But they
confirmed it and, like... They were even like
asking like where the beef comes from in the
family, you know Like what started that exactly
what started because obviously he was in it he
did he love they translated for us But he was
saying like how it all got started but beef between
what parts of the family to be say that they
have no, it was a Carlos and Who's the one that
one of the brothers went out on their own? Because
he was like I don't want nothing to do with this
part of the family Was it Horian? I know that
name. They were saying that name a lot. Well,
Horian started the UFC. Yeah, it might have been
him. And Horian also trained Mel Gibson for this
lethal weapon fight scene. There he is, Horian
Gracie. Horian Gracie in Playboy magazine challenged
Mike Tyson to a no -rules fight. See, I don't
want to sound stupid, so I don't like to say
too many names, but... You're going to make me
call my friend and ask him when we leave here.
Well, Elio was his father. You know, Hickson's
obviously his brother. Hoyce is his brother.
Hoyler's his brother. I think Hoyler and Hoyce
are half brothers. Yes, I knew that. They were
saying that. But they were just kind of like
going over like old times and stories and like
they were talking about that because apparently
like they were saying like, well, Daniel was
saying like within the family because he's a
Gracie, but I think he's like it was. His mom
or something like that was, so she's still a
Gracie. But anyway, or his, no, his cousin was
a Gracie. So technically like he's not a real
blood Gracie. I don't know. They tried to explain
it. It's very weird. But anyway, we were there
and they can't, they don't talk about it. Like
why there's a divide between this side of the
family and this side. And they, they explained
to like, even when they were kids, like they
would go in and get into it. Like say you'd go
in and you get in a fight in the street, just
like maybe you're 12 years old. It started, they
said, like, basically that young that, like,
there was a divide between whatever one and this
one. And because they would go get in a fight
and he would come back and rat on them. And he
was like, bro, come on. You know, so it started
as that young. And he said it was a lot. It wasn't
even like, oh, it was just one time. No, like
multiple times, you know. So it was just interesting
to hear like these stories that these guys had
of like when they were young in the streets,
like fighting in Rio. Oh, yeah. I mean, there's
a video of Hickson fighting somebody on the beach.
Yeah, they talk about it. Some Luta Libre guy
smacks him on the beach. He talks about it. They
were talking about it. They're fighting in the
sand, scrapping on the beach. Daniel was there
for that. Daniel was there. He was the one that
brought it up. He was there. He said they showed
the picture of it, and he was right in the back.
Hickson has those little surfer shorts on. Yep.
Daniel explained how it started. I don't remember
that exact details, but, dude, it was like. Well,
they would dojo storm each other. They would
show up at places and challenge, like, Luta Livre
gyms, and Luta Livre guys would show up at the
Gracie Dojo. Dude, it was like. Yeah, here it
is. Look at Hickson with them beautiful colored
shorts on. He just smacks them. Like, come on,
baby, it's on. And the dude's like, take your
shoes off. Come on, let's go. Like, there, hold
my shoes. Bro, these were wild times. Yeah. Especially
when you take into consideration Hickson's widely
considered one of the absolute greatest jiu -jitsu
practitioners of all time. You know, and that
he was willing to have these kind of fights on
the beach in Rio, these no -rules fights just
surrounded by dudes. And man thongs. Yeah. I
mean, and not have any striking. Look, see how
Hickson's winging punches? These guys had no
striking at all. It's really kind of crazy. I
mean, not ever saying there's anything wrong
with anything that Hickson ever did because he's
like one of the greatest of all time. But if
you look at the difference between a guy that's
just a pure grappler like Hickson, even when
he fought in pride, remember he'd come out with
those little stomp kicks. He's just getting you
to the ground. It's all getting you to the ground.
There's no one like that now. No one has very
little stand -up. There's no one who fights like
that. And it's crazy because there's like so
many stories about like Hoist wasn't even supposed
to be the one to fight. He wasn't even supposed
to be the one. They were supposed to have the
other one. Well, Hickson was always the champion
of the family. And Hoyst had always said that.
That Hickson was 10 times better than him. He
said, Hickson tapped me every day. Every day
I go to the gym, Hickson tapped me. But it's
just like, that's just how it was. But there
was a lot of rumors. One of the rumors was that...
So this is the narrative. Hoyce says it's because
he's so beautiful. It's like, look at his face.
Of course they picked me. That's what he said
on the podcast. It was hilarious because he's
so handsome. But Hickson's handsome too, so it
didn't make any sense. But I think it's because
Hoyce could show that it was the technique because
Hickson was shredded. He was pretty jacked too,
and he looked like a world champion athlete,
whereas Hoyce looked like a 170 -pound guy. who
was, like, you know, not that muscular, and it
was just technique. It was him using beautiful
jiu -jitsu technique that nobody knew what it
was. It was, like, the best advertisement ever
for jiu -jitsu. When you see a 175 -pound guy
tapping out Dan Severin, you know, he was this
huge wrestler, and Kemo, when he got him in that
arm bar, like, all the shit that Hoist did. Ken
Shamrock, when he tapped him. Crazy to watch
a guy that's, like, so much smaller than everybody
else dominate everyone, and everyone was afraid
of him. So it was, like, the perfect thing. And
the thought was, okay, well, if he ever does
lose, we always have Hickson. Right. But Hickson
went off to Japan, and he did Japan Valley Tudor,
and then he did Pride. And, you know, there was
talk at one point in time of Hickson fighting
Fedor. They were throwing money around for Hickson
after he fought in that Coliseum show, which
I think was in 2000. When did he fight Funaki?
When did Hickson fight Funaki? I think it was...
The year 2000. And they were talking about Hickson
fighting Fedor. They had made him an offer, Japan,
for him to come over. And he wanted to do it.
It never came. I wish you could have heard, like,
again, because I'm so bad with names. And my
memory is not as good as it used to be. But it's
one of my favorite memories from fighting. 2000.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's one of my favorite
memories from fighting, just sitting there and
listening to these guys. Because the history
was freaking insane. The stories were awesome.
It was – but like I said, I'm terrible with names,
so I'm very bad with like – So look at that.
Andre Pettinaris on that card versus Genki Sudo.
Sure is. Ended in a draw. And Genki Sudo was
a bad motherfucker. That's how good Pettinaris
was. I didn't know that. Oh, yeah. Pettinaris
was legit, man. Damn. Very legit. Very legit.
Damn. I knew he was a great coach. I didn't know
he fought. Fought in the early, early days. I
mean, he might have even fought in extreme combat.
Did he fight in extreme combat? That was back
in the day when Mario Sperry first burst on the
scene. He fought back then. Igor Zinoviev. All
these dudes that everybody forgot about. They
fought, and that was John Peretti's card. So
John Peretti, who was the commentator for the
early days of the UFC, then John Peretti went
over and started his own organization for a while.
It's crazy. I think sometimes, well, I know.
Like I said, I'm bad at names, right? But it's
like I went and fought in Seattle last year.
This year, a fight in Seattle this year. And
they did like, there was Amanda Nunes, Robbie
Lawler, and there was one more. They got inducted
into the Hall of Fame this year. And nobody could
give like really any fights for whoever the other
person was. And not many could give too much
for Robbie Lawler. I was like, bro, how have
you not heard about Robbie Lawler? Oh, you mean
they weren't clapping? No, like. So here it is.
Let me just go over this real quick. Pedonaris.
His debut fight, Valley Tudor Japan. That's what
it was. He defeated Rumino Sato. And then Pat
Melitich for the UFC welterweight title, UFC
21. We lost in the second round, technical knockout.
And then he fought Kyle Uno. He was a savage.
I remember him. That ended in a draw. So Genki
Sudo and Kyle Uno, two savages. And both of those
fights were draws. And the last one with Genki
Sudo was his last MMA fight. So how many fights
did he have overall? Four. Four fights. But,
shit, they're all good. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he fought
legit guys, man. Yeah. He beat Roman Asato. You
know, Roman Asato, man, was fucking terrifying
back then. KO, soccer kick KO. Oof. Damn. Yeah.
But, yeah, it was like, it was just different,
man. That time frame is just different, you know?
Well, it is, it's the birth of the sport. And
it's kind of amazing to have been there at the
very beginning and to be able to watch it. you
know um when i when i i first found out about
it i couldn't believe it was real i had a bunch
of friends that told me about it i think i i
heard about it from dudes at uh do you remember
benny urquidez do you know who he was no i don't
know benny the jet was a famous kickboxer now
i'm really going back i feel like i know that
name he was one of the best kickboxers of all
time and this was like way back in the day, like
in the early 80s. Benny the Jet was the fucking
man in the late 70s and the early 80s, and he
had this gym in California, in Van Nuys, California,
called the Jet Center. When I first moved out
to California, there's two places I knew I really
had to go. One was the comedy store, and the
other was the Jet Center. And so I got to work
out at the Jet Center, and Benny was there, and
his cousin Blinky, he was there, and Blinky Rodriguez,
who was another elite kickboxer. who actually
knocked out Jean -Yves Thériault, who's like
one of the best kickboxers of all time. So it
was like this incredible gym. But Benny the Jet
Urquidez was like, he was early, like the Bill
Superfoot Wallace days, like back in those days.
And I forget what I was just saying. I lost my
train of thought. What were we just talking about
before that? Yeah, you moved to LA. Yeah, but
I had a point. I had a point about these early
MMA fighters. Oh, you were saying it's the birth
of... The birth of the sport. So watching that,
this is what my point was, watching that where
there was not even leg kicks to watching all
of a sudden you see Rick Rufus and he fought
that dude from Thailand, like one of the most
important fights in the history of martial arts
because you get to see that dude from Thailand
just chop Rick Rufus' legs apart. And then Rick
and Duke... Both learned from that and said,
OK, we've got to incorporate that into our game.
Duke becomes a world Muay Thai champion after
that. And then Duke becomes one of the best MMA
coaches ever. So it changes the entire course
of the sport. And when I got into it. And started
watching it. That's what it was. So the Jet Center,
one of the guys from the Jet Center was like,
you've got to see this thing. It's called the
UFC. This was in 94. I was like, what? What is
it? It was UFC 2. I didn't even see UFC 1. I
saw UFC 2 because that was the only one that
was available on VHS. So I watched UFC 2, and
I was like, this is crazy. I'm like, how is this
guy doing this? And I was like, oh, my God. How
is everybody so vulnerable to this one guy? This
is nuts. So I was like, I've got to train jiu
-jitsu. Watching all of these people from that
era and watching the level of the competition
at that era and what the fights looked like versus
today, there's not another sport on earth where
you could see a gigantic difference between 1994
and 2025. Like a gigantic difference where it's
unrecognizable. Like that kid that you were talking
about before, the 18 -year -old kid, what's his
name again? Ansar. That guy would have been a
world champion. Easy. A world champion. Yeah,
easy. No one would have fucked with him. We would
have said, this is the greatest fighter that's
ever walked the face of the planet. For sure.
And he's a kid that's on undercards of small
regional shows now. Right? How crazy is that?
So when you're seeing these guys in the Dana
White Contender Series, some of these guys coming
up, I'm watching them fight for their first fight
in the Contender Series. I'm like, this guy looks
like he'd be fighting for the title. They're
complete fighters. They're fast. They have good
technique. Everything they're doing is smart.
It's like... The level has changed so much in
such a short period of time. And I feel so lucky
to be able to see the whole thing. I saw the
whole thing, like from the ground floor to today.
It's crazy because you probably hear it all the
time, right? Like I was probably watching Fear
Factor before I knew the UFC. So when I saw the
UFC, I was like, Dad, look, it's him. He was
like, he looks at me because obviously my dad's
seen it before. He's like, yes, son. been around
a while you know he's been in the UFC I don't
even know if it was longer but I'm sure it was
yeah I was I started working for the UFC in 97
so he was like he's always been there so then
obviously as I get older I start seeing history
and looking at old fights and older fights and
I see I noticed you there the whole time and
like me and my friend Tuco had these conversations
but I was like bro Joe's a real one though he's
he's been here the whole time like how awesome
does that have to be for like you Dana for Tito's
And probably a few others, too, that nobody knows
that have seen this thing grow from what it was
to what it is today. Oh, it's amazing. It's got
to be. It's amazing. Yeah, I feel so lucky. I'm
so fortunate. Like, it's one of the things I
look forward to more than anything in life. And
like you said. UFC weekend, I'm like, oh, boy,
here we go. I get so excited. I've been doing
this forever. I still, I started UFC 12 in 1997.
That was the first fight that I ever did backstage
interviews. That's what I did. Or post -fight
interviews, too. I think I started doing interviews
backstage, and then I interviewed guys after
the fight was over. That was early. How did you
start there? It was a crazy fluke. So I was already
doing jiu -jitsu. I was at Carlson Gracie's.
This was back before Vitor made his debut. I
was training with Vitor's gym with Mario Sperry.
I took lessons from Mario Sperry when I was a
white belt. It was awesome, dude. Murillo Bustamante
was there all the time. There was a ton of the—
the Carlson -Gracie killers, the two bulldogs
fighting each other. And Carlson was there every
day. So I got to train there when I was on News
Radio, the sitcom. It was just like 1996. And
I just loved that. This was before Vitor fought
in the UFC. So while he was training at the gym
with us, he went and fought this guy, John Hess.
John Hess was this big, tall. He fought in the
UFC as well, I believe. I believe he did. John
Hess was his, he had a style called SAFTA. I
forget what it was about, but it was like back
then dudes would just like make up their own
style, street fighting, artistic, finger fucking,
you know, they would make up some sort of a fucking
acronym. But Vitor. blitzed across the ring he
was 19 years old and just lit this guy up like
a machine gun like got him down like put him
out on the ground like it was so crazy and so
fast the most ferocious display of ground and
pound i had ever seen in my life at the time
and i was like this is crazy and so just randomly
they had a guy who was doing the post fight interviews
and they wanted to get a new guy and they were
looking for people and The guy, Campbell McLaren,
who is the producer of the UFC, happened to be
friends with my manager from the comedy club
days. Campbell used to work at a comedy club
with my manager. And they were just shooting
the shit over the phone. He goes, hey, I'm looking
for someone to do interviews for the UFC. Do
you know anybody that would be interested? And
he goes, like, Joe is a huge fan. He's like,
Joe watches every one of them. I actually got
DirecTV just so I could watch the UFC because
that's when it was banned from cable. So I got
my cable removed and I got DirecTV put in my
house. Just so I could watch the UFC. Because
it was the only way you could catch it. And then
it was no money. And I was supposed to fly to
New York. But then the last minute it got canceled.
They made it illegal in New York. And we had
to fly to Dothan, Alabama on a fucking propeller
plane. I shared a propeller plane with Randy
Couture. And actually that was later. That was
in Louisiana. I shared a propeller plane with
Randy Couture. But Randy didn't fight that. But
it was Vitor made his debut against Trey Telegman.
And everybody thought he was a jiu -jitsu guy
because he was from Carlson Gracie. He had a
black belt. And he just came out just throwing
missiles. Just missiles. So fast. Like nobody
had seen anything like that. And he was only
like 200 pounds back then. He was light and fast
and strong as shit. And then he fought Scott
Ferrozzo and took him out in the finals. So he
won this heavyweight tournament. And that was
1997. That's crazy. That was the third person
I was trying to think of when I was in Seattle.
So basically what happened, UFC was asking fighters,
hey, these three guys, they weren't saying they
were getting inducted, but obviously if you've
been around. Oh, it was Vitor? It was Vitor,
Amanda Nunez. And Robbie Lawler. They weren't
cheering for Vitor? That's crazy. No, they were
asking the fighters, right? They were asking
the fighters, hey, do you know who these guys
are? If you do, what's your most memorable moment
of them? What was your favorite moment? Like
anything like that, right? Because obviously
they put it on the montage when they announce
it. Right. And they told me that only me and
two other fighters on the entire card could give
a fight from Vitor. I was like, no way. I was
like, that highlight that you're talking about
when he sprints across, even if you don't know
the person, how do you not see that highlight?
When he did that to Vanderlei, remember we did
it to Vanderlei Silva? That's the one I said.
That's what I said. That was my, Vanderlei was
that one. That was crazy, but I think the scariest
Vitor of all time was TRT Vitor. TRT Vitor was
the scariest fucking human being that ever stepped
into that cage. If they never banned TRT. I think
that guy would have been a terror for every fucking
human being that weighed 185 pounds. For sure.
The way he wheel kicked Luke Rockhold, like what
the fuck are we looking at, man? We never saw
him throw a wheel kick in his whole career. All
of a sudden he's wheel kicking guys in the head?
He come in the gym, because obviously he lived
in Florida. He come in the gym and he is the
nicest guy. Brother, brother, come here, come
here. Very nice guy. Let's talk about it. Hey,
I think... I think you need to slow down a little
bit. These 100 % every days, no good, brother.
He said, why don't you come? We can have some
coffee, have lunch, and let's talk about it.
I love the science behind the sport. Wow. But
super nice guy, right? Like those are conversations
that I had with him. And if I see him, great
guy. Before this, never had a conversation with
him. Only watched him on TV, you know? But that
was like the first interaction I ever had with
Vitor as a person. I don't know if he knew who
I was. He just watched me spar and then come
to me after. That was it. That's very nice of
him. Yeah, super nice guy. And for a real OG
like him that's been, again, fighting since 1997.
1997? That's almost 30 years. That's literally
crazy. Dude, it hurt my heart when they said
that people couldn't say fights for him. Couldn't
even say a highlight. It's hard. You know, these
young guys, a lot of them are 25 years old, 24
years old. They didn't watch the sport. Joshua
Vann, 24, right? They didn't watch the sport
a lot before they were involved in it. And the
fights that they've really seen. a lot of in
the last few years. Yeah. And that's what Josh
Vann, that's why I said his name. He's young,
but he says the same thing because they were
like, why do you think Pantoja's the GOAT? He's
like, I know Demetrius Johnson is what everyone
says. He was like, but I never got to see him,
you know, like I was too young. That's crazy
too. Go watch. It's online. Yeah. Go see it,
Joshua. YouTube's free, bro. You're the champ
now, Joshua. Go back and watch Mighty Mouse because
that motherfucker was extraordinary. He was.
Mighty Mouse in his time was extraordinary. He
was so special when he fought that big Brazilian
kid and won. Uh -huh. Right? Because he lost
one and then he beat him twice, right? Lost the
first time in one championship and then he got
KO'd and then KO'd him the exact same way. Really?
With a knee. Yeah. I didn't know it was the same
way. They both got KO'd with knees and both got
KO'd against the cage with knees. Wow. It was
literally like almost the exact same, except
Demetrius's was more artistic. It was beautiful.
The flow. Where he was like chasing him. He rocked
him. And then he's chasing him down. He's like,
not yet. There it is. And he just launches and
catches him with this. You've seen it, right?
Yeah, I've seen it. Oh, my God. I didn't know
it was the same way. What is that dude's name?
The dude he KO'd? Andre? I don't know. Search
Demetrius Johnson flying knee KO one FC. I bet
you'll find it. Yeah, Adriano Moraes. That's
it. That's it. And Moraes is good, dude. He's
really good. He's really big. And one FC's got
that squirrely, weight -cutting jazz. So this
is the second fight after Moraes had KO'd him
in the first fight. And also, this is a DJ that's
probably 35 years old, right? Right. I mean,
and after a long career in the UFC, widely recognized
as the greatest flyweight of all time in the
UFC. To me, he just didn't get the love that
he deserved when he was in his prime because
he was 125 pounds. And for whatever reason, I
mean, it's not like it's not even more interesting
to watch. But people have this weird thing, like
a heavyweight could beat anyone in the world.
125 -pound guy will dump him on his head. Stop.
Watch him fight. Right there. Boom! Back it up
a second so you can see the sequence. Look, right
hand, timing, boom. Perfect. The timing is just
so beautiful. That's so, look, that's fucking
artistic, man. That is so artistic. It's perfect.
And to KO a guy with the shit he KO'd you with
in the first fight is wild. Dude, I don't know
much about Demetrius as a person, but from what
I've seen of him, obviously because you see more
now that he's doing his streaming and stuff,
he is like... He's the best. He's the definition
of a martial artist. He cares about the pureness
of being a martial artist rather than the views
or the belt or any of that. So I respect that
a lot. He's not like talking stupid shit just
to get attention. He hates people that do that
kind of stuff. He hates disrespectful stuff.
He's such a nice guy, but also just so smart
about his approach to the sport. Just so clever
inside the cage and also so fucking fast, man.
Dude, insane reaction. One time I grabbed him
just being silly. at a UFC he was in front of
me and I put my arms around him like from behind
you know like saying hi to somebody and he turned
around he looked at me he goes he hit me with
two knees to the body like just touched me it
was so fast I was like dude that was so scary
you hit me so fast I didn't even see them coming
it was like just like just just moved like a
cat And, you know, like you said, he was probably
35 or whatever there. He could still compete
with the best in the world. With the best in
the world. No problem. And juice -free, too.
Juice -free with the best in the world. And,
by the way, over there, I don't know what kind
of drug test they're doing, but it's probably
multiple choice. There's a lot of them organizations
where you're like, how are you testing, really?
It's multiple choice. You know, because, like,
if you're not testing. all throughout camp, randomly,
you're not really testing. Right. Because we
have to remember that Alistair Overeem, when
he fought Brock Lesnar, was tested. And that
is... The juiciest man that's ever walked the
face of planet Earth. The Alistair Overeem that
fought Brock Lesnar is the juiciest guy I've
ever seen fight. It was horse meat. And I wish
he could keep juicing. I do. I think we would
have seen a different result. If you let Alistair
stay juicy and stay 265 with... world -class
kickboxing skills. And also, he was so jacked
that he could kind of hide from punches. Because
when he would shell up, especially in K -1, when
he had those big gloves, bro, when he would shell
up, so he's got biceps and shoulders and then
traps. Everything's all protected. And he's got
that high guard, and he's coming in like this,
throwing bombs. And he looks like a superhero.
He looks like a guy from a fucking comic book.
Yeah, let's just let everyone juice. If you want
to juice, just everyone juice. Let's make it
an even playing field instead of let's try to
catch who's not or let's catch who's juicing.
Would you if they just open the gates? Okay.
Okay. I'll start it off by saying yes. When I
was younger, I was like, no, I'd never juice.
I want to be all natural to show everything,
like show I'm just that good. Then I was like,
as I got older and seen it, I was like, nah,
I would. But that's like, I remember I fought
Eric Anders for LFA, right? And they have pictures
of him on the scale, the day of the fight, 222,
223, one of them two, right? I'm stepping in,
I don't even really cut, I'm stepping in like
194. I'm young. I don't cut really anything.
That time I did cut a lot. That was the first
fight I cut a lot for because I was lifting like
crazy and I wasn't really doing nothing else
because I was in Louisiana. I used to train with
Rich Clemente. Oh, okay. Yeah, so you know he's
crazy as hell. So I was training there, but I
was lifting more than anything. But anyway, I
was probably like, 196 -ish, 197. No more than
200, for sure. No questions asked. And they come
in the back that night, and they're like, hey,
we're drug testing you. I said, what? He said,
yeah, yeah, we're going to drug test you. It's
random. I said, well, if it's random, is he getting
drug tested too? They're like, nah. I said, hold
on. So you're telling me the man who's weighing
over 220 and just weighed 185 exact yesterday.
It's not getting tested, but the guy who's only
weighing like 14 whatever pounds more is getting
tested. I pulled up my shirt. I said, does it
look like I'm on fucking steroids? Does it look
like it? I said, give me some credit, bro. If
I was going to take it, I promise you I would
look like it. And they were like, I'm sorry,
bro, but this is. It's just our job. I was like,
all right, let's go get it done. How could you
randomly test only a few people on a roster?
That has to be a budget thing. That has to be
a budget thing. Texas Commission. But that must
be like they don't want to spend money on everybody.
I don't know. If you test one guy on the card,
you should have to test everybody. Yeah, I think
it was a total of three or four guys is what
they said. That they tested on the whole card.
If you're testing a guy, you have to test his
opponent. Dude. You have to. That's crazy. I
still, to this day, I laugh about it. I'm like,
come on, bro. Every time someone asks me, like,
hey, we're going to do a text you. Come on, bro.
There was a few fights where they stopped. They
wouldn't let a guy fight because they, in the
TRT days, they did test to see what people's
levels are. And one guy, I don't want to say
his name, but one guy was so high that they canceled
the main event. Really? Yeah. They canceled the
main event at the weigh -in. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.
I didn't know that. He was so juicy. They were
worried that he was going to die. They were like,
you could like your levels or whatever you fucking
did. You should not be fighting with this level
of testosterone in your system. Also on TRT.
So it wasn't like this guy's just some genetic
freak like y 'all Romero coming out of the Cuban
sports program. No, it wasn't. He's a special
human too. That's a special human. Yeah. Do you
ever heard of a guy, Clovis? I think Clovis Hancock.
He died in the fight. I think it was for Legacy
or LFA. I fought him. Then his next fight, he
died in the cage and they brought him back. Whoa.
Yeah, CPR. It was all over the internet. I fought
that dude. I was like, no way. I saw that the
next day. I seen it. Yeah, they had to give him
CPR until the ambulance got him loaded up and
taken to the hospital. So his heart just stopped
beating? Wow. Obviously never allowed to fight
again. Obviously, yeah. Yeah, man. Crazy. Imagine
if he wanted to. Oh, my God. He probably did,
bro. He was funny. I ain't going to lie. Some
guys just have that dog in them. They don't care.
Cyborg wanted to fight again after he got his
skull crushed by MVP. No way. Yeah, he thought
he was going to fight again after that. So here
it is. Can you imagine being in the audience
watching that? They're doing fucking CPR on a
dude. Oh, my God. That's so scary. Yeah, yeah.
I remember he was the cut man for it. That's
so scary. Yeah, man, it's crazy. Well, thank
God they have those EMTs on standby. For sure.
These organizations, they do their very best
to screen people and make sure that they're as
healthy as possible. The UFC does a real good
job with that. Dead for five minutes. He was
dead for five minutes? The cut man was the guy
that was giving him CPR. It wasn't even the EMTs.
Oh, my God. Thank God the cut man knew CPR. Holy
shit, dude. Yeah, it's crazy. Well, you know,
it reminds you this is not a game. It's for sure.
It's a crazy -ass fucking sport. So what's next
for you? Do you know? Do they have you lined
up for anything? No. I've been pushing. Hopefully,
Dracus. Hopefully, March, April at the latest.
So do you need that much time to prepare, or
is that how you'd like to? Yeah, I started training
again today, matter of fact. Maybe that'll get
him excited about fighting you. Huh? Maybe that'll
get him excited about fighting you. Who knows,
man? Maybe that's a trap. If I was Dracus, I'm
like, this motherfucker probably has a full six
-pack if he takes his shirt off. He's probably
ripped his fuck. Six -pack of rolls. He's ready
to go. He's just bullshitting, saying he hasn't
been training to goad me into a fight. Yeah,
man. So Drikus is the guy that you're hoping
for. Yes, sir. And it makes sense. Like, it's
just the right time. Like I said, Imoval is going
to wait for the champion. He earned his spot.
They just announced Fluffy and Shawn. So what's
left? It's just me and him. It's a good fight,
too. It would be a great fight to watch. And
a good fight, you know, for you, obviously, fighting
former champion, you know, in his next. And for
Drikus, it's like that's a. That's the kind of
fight you need at this point. You need to turn
back the young lions. I've been trying to fight
him since he got into the UFC. I just felt like
I still feel this way. I feel like he's the luckiest
guy I've ever seen. Don't get me wrong. He does
have a couple fights now. But before he got the
belt, I always said he's the luckiest guy. Marcus
Perez was beating his ass. Marcus Perez wanted
to do something crazy and went to throw a spinning
elbow. Jerkus was throwing a body shot when he
was throwing the spinning elbow and he hit him
right in the mouth. Drick has hit Marcus right
in the mouth. Out. I don't think you can call
that lucky. I don't know. I know what you're
saying, but he finds a way to win. The dude's
a dog. He is a dog. He finds a way to win. You
know, I mean, think about some of them fights
that were just like, like the Adesanya fight.
Like, he just kept coming and found a way to
win. Yeah, I do like that about him. The Robert
Whitaker fight, we took Whitaker out in the first
round. You can't, there's no luck. No, you're
right. That one's... I don't see luck in that
one. I think that was a great strategy. He's
a fucking animal, dude. Honestly, we can say
whatever we want about each other. He can joke,
talk shit, whatever the case. But I love the
fight because I know he's coming to fight. He's
coming to kill. For sure. I love that. I've had
him, but I don't like the guys that just want
to hug. He's trying to hurt me. I love that.
That nervousness brings out the best version
of me because I'm nervous. Who's not nervous
of another man? He's trying to hurt me. And to
me, one of his best attributes is exactly what
you said. You describe it as he finds a way to
win. That's a great way. For me, I'm just like,
that dude can dig deep. Same exact thing. Look,
even in the Hamzat fight, even in the Hamzat
fight, remember the fifth round? Yep. Fifth round,
he's on top. dropping bombs on Hamzat at one
point in time. It was a little too late, and
he didn't get him out of there, but he was not
giving up. He just was getting dominated. There's
a difference. For sure. He was still trying to
find a way to win. But I love that. That motivates
me by itself. I love hearing that. I want a guy
that's going to try to come kill me, because
what's the worst that's going to happen? He knocks
me out? Okay. Okay. That's what we came to do
anyway. Any man could do it. I've been TKO'd
before. All right, cool. But I can do it to you
too. So I love that aspect of the fight. That's
my favorite thing. That's what motivates me about
the fight more than the number. The danger. Yeah,
I like that. And I feel like I really truly haven't
had that in a while. Some guys look at it as
a sport and some guys really mean it. Like, I'm
trying to hurt you. And I like that. It brings
that out in me too because I'm trying to hurt
you. All right, you're going to try to hurt me?
I'm going to try to hurt you. Or, you know, I
don't know. But that's just how I look at the
fight, and it really, like, excites me. Like,
that's that demonic side of me coming out. Like,
let's see. I'm ready. Well, I love hearing that,
and I love the fight. I hope you get it. Thank
you. And thanks for being here, man. It was great
talking to you. Let everybody know how they can
find you on social. Yeah, on Instagram, at BrennanAllen185,
or B underscore Allen185. And that's really about
B. I'm just kind of chill. I'm low key. All right,
brother. Well, hopefully next time I'll talk
to you, it's after a victory. Yes, sir. Thank
you for having me. My pleasure, brother. It's
such a pleasure being here with all you guys.
Thank you so much. My pleasure. All right. Bye,
everybody.